Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Loveless

Episode Date: September 17, 2017

Introducing a new mini series on the complete filmography of director Kathryn Bigelow! This week Griffin and David begin with her 1982 debut feature, The Loveless, about a wild 1950’s motorcycle gang in small-town America. But who is co-director Monty “Old Timey” Montgomery? How did Bigelow’s background in the fine arts and academia influence her films to come? How does the evolution of actors portraying the Joker eventually lead to a Vine star? Together they examine Willem Dafoe getting fired from Heaven’s Gate, DC supervillian’s relationship with vats of toxic waste, Marc Maron’s favorite seas and under ball. Plus, they present their Nolan filmography rankings.​

You can never tell on a day like this. Things could be going Jake one minute, then presto, before you know it, your podcast. Yeah. Ooh. Do-do-do-do-do. That famous line. I'm sure all of you know what movie we're talking about today.

Everyone has just stopped their car in the middle of the highway in excitement at the idea. Okay, keep your car running. Do not create a traffic accident. And put your switchblades away. Oh, put them away. They're dangerous. Watch out. This is a White Hot episode of Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. Oh, it's white. I'm throttling up. Yes. People are camping outside the studio demanding that we release this episode early.

They want to hear it live. People cannot wait to hear the two of us discuss The Loveless. Because what's that? Smells like a new miniseries. Why, in fact, we are cracking open a new miniseries this week. It's a podcast about phonographies. Directors who had massive success early on in their career are given a series of blank checks.

Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce. Baby. The balls. I wish you'd said that in the movie. This is a new miniseries about the films of one Catherine Bigelow. One Willem Dafoe's balls. And it is called Pod 19, The Widowcaster.

That is the name of this miniseries. God, it's so stupid. Everything is dumb. Everything is dumb. Oh, boy. But here's the thing. I don't know if you know this about us, David. I don't.

What are you going to say? We are connoisseurs of context. And bold over. Connoisseurs of context. So some people might go, oh, miniseries on Catherine Bigelow? I'll do a miniseries

on Catherine Bigelow immediately after doing a miniseries on Christopher Nolan, immediately after doing a miniseries on Steven Spielberg. I'll only do her four biggest films. Yeah, the ones everybody

knows, as opposed to the ones literally nobody's heard of. Right. Some podcasts would do that, and some would argue that's maybe a better business strategy. Hey, some of those podcasts might be on bigger networks or making lots of money. Yes. But we were there first.

We announced this a while ago. Baby! Yeah. Bugs! So if they want to keep being the ants to our bug's life, the shark tail to our Finding Nemo. Sure. Scorsese was in that one.

He was. He's very good now. Yeah. By all means, go ahead. Of course, the podcast that we are subtweeting right now is Serial. Yeah. No. Yeah. By all means go ahead. Of course the podcast that we are subtweeting right now is Serial. Yeah. So. You heard us. What if Mark Maron was like what what's up

guys Catherine Bigelow miniseries coming. Can't wait to talk about Blue Steel. Yeah that's what everyone's doing now is a fucking Bigelow miniseries. We called our shot. Way to water miniseries. We called our shot. Way to water, motherfuckers. We called our shot months ago. Yeah.

I can't wait to hear what miniseries WTF is doing next. Yeah. Hi. What if we announce a fake miniseries to see if they announce the same thing? Yeah. Oh, what should it be? Oh, Jesus, like Rob Reiner. Yeah, we're going to do the films of Rob Reiner.

Roman Polanski. Oh, sure, yeah. We should put them on the trail of something really problematic. No, you know what we should do? I got it. I got it. Let's go on the record right now. We're starting off a new miniseries, but we're calling our shot. We're putting it on the board right now. Next min starting off a new miniseries but are calling our shot we're putting on the board right now next miniseries after this is officially old

pods the films of walt becker yeah sure we're gonna do walt becker yeah yeah okay so mark it we're doing walt becker and if any other podcasts like see what we're doing they should do walt becker r.i.P. Walt Becker. The other one. Yes. Great. You want to do 10 more minutes on this? Yes, please. Yeah, okay. So today we're talking about The Loveless,

which is the first film that Catherine Bigelow, him, co-directed? I guess kind of. But the other, the man that she, I'm forgetting his name now. Monty Montgomery. What a good name. How could I forget him? Well, he was a 1930s newspaperman

who happened to walk through a time tunnel and she was like, you're going to make a movie with me. And he's like, ah, it's got to be about them bikers. Kids love that leather and those switchblades. Look at this fucking guy. He looks like it's like a daguerreotype from like Deadwood.

He looks like he owns the general store in like the Indian territories. Look at this guy. He looks like the governor of general store in like the Indian territories. Look at this guy. He looks like the governor of Kentucky like back before it was a state. I hear when he died, they put his body on ice and toured it around at sundry shops. I know that no one can see. Oh my God. What? He's the cowboy from fucking Mulholland Drive.

Yes. Okay. So that's what I was going to say. Holy shit. I had no idea. I just ripped on him for 400 minutes. He went on to a very big film career working with David Lynch a lot, but never directed or wrote again.

He produced Wild at Heart. He's an associate producer on the pilot of Twin Peaks only. And he produced The Portrait of a Lady, which was of course directed by David Lynch and Drake. No. and he produced The Portrait of a Lady, which was, of course, directed by David Lynch and Drake. And he wrote for Hotel Room, which he created, which was that weird David Lynch spinoff, or not like that other David Lynch show no one ever remembers. Sure, sure.

So, yeah. He's had a big career, but he never directed another film. And so Bigelow gets most of the credit for this one because the things established in this movie kind of ripple throughout the rest of her career. I think, yeah. Yeah, sure. Yes. She's the director. Right.

But she, this was her first film after being a painter. Yeah. Well, should we dig into the history of Bigelow? Yeah, give me some context. Let me get that ready for you. Born in San Carlos, California. Cool town. Which is in, let's find out.

Here, quick guess. No or SoCal? I'd guess Northern. Correct. Hells yeah. Her mother was a librarian. Her father was a paint factory manager. And she was a painter, like you said.

Went to the San Francisco Art Institute in 1970. Worked in New York. Worked in Manhattan. Teamed up with Philip Glass on a real estate venture in which they renovated distressed departments downtown, then sold them for a profit. So she was like a house flipper in New York's gritty 70s. That's probably why she was so good with Jeremy Renner, why she was able to make Jeremy Renner a star, because they have that in common.

They're both flippers. Was he a flipper? Jeremy Renner's like a crazy flipper make Jeremy Renner a star, because they have that in common. They're both flippers. Was he a flipper? Jeremy Renner's like a crazy flipper. You don't know this? Why would I know this? This is like the biggest thing about Jeremy Renner. Is Hawkeye, that's just like his side business? Yes.

Like the nut is from house flipping? He was like, when I was a struggling actor and no one was hiring me, I would, because he's also like a carpenter. Sure, sure. Much like Harrison Ford. He would like buy houses, redo them, and flip them for money.

And he was a millionaire before he got famous. Huh. From flipping houses. Huh. I had no idea. Jeremy Renner also briefly worked as a makeup artist, does his own makeup on most films. Which is why sometimes if you see Jeremy Renner at an award show,

and you're like, why is he looking a little extra? Go for it, Jeremy. Yeah. It's because he's got all the time in the world. Then she went to film school at Columbia. Okay. Worked with people like Susan Sontag there, studied under them,

and taught at CalArts. My alma mater that I dropped out of. No, you graduated. I did not. No, and she worked. Then she made a short film in 78 called The Setup, which Milos Forman took a liking to. So I guess that was her first like, you know, bit in there.

Which is apparently a deconstruction of violence in film in which two men fight each other as semioticians deconstruct the images in voiceover. Wow, we should do a whole bonus episode on that. We should. Maybe we should do a DCM episode on that. That'll be a hit, right? Yeah. People love those DCM episodes. No, I was just going to say, I mean, the thing that's interesting about her is

she comes from this fine art background. There's this academic background, and there's this very slow trek to get to her actually making her first feature film. Yes. And then a big gap between The Loveless and her second movie near dark but everything up until now she's about 30 when she makes the loveless right everything up until now is like this very kind of like academic intellectual deconstructionist like genre exercise and then what she ends up

becoming is like this really fascinating filmmaker who's able to deconstruct gender roles and genre while still making functional genre movies agreed that's the needle that's the thing it's not too academic at all like it's not like people see point break and think oh a little heady right yeah kind of into itself yeah right right she does a thing I love, which is she makes movies that the dumbest person in the room and the smartest person in the room can both enjoy. Right. For different reasons. She also modeled for Gap in the early 80s.

I should probably find that. And she also, I mean, was famously in James Cameron's music video. James Cameron made a music video? Yeah, you've never seen this? God, why am I forgetting which band it is? James Cameron made a music video with Catherine Bigelow playing a cowboy. Sure.

Going into town. It's like a Johnny Guitar redo. Bigelow's like pretty badass in it. She's fucking awesome. Yeah, she's like a cool lady. Yeah, she's a pretty cool lady. Look at her in this gap app. Yeah, that's cool. Smoking a cig. I mean, she's a pretty cool lady. Look at her in this gap app. Yeah, that's cool.

Smoking a cig. I mean, that's not cool. Looks like a French movie star. Yeah, it's not cool to smoke, kids. Okay, so it's the music video is called Martini Ranch. I'm sorry, the band is called Martini Ranch. Sure. The song is called Reach, and the video stars

Adrian Padar, Lance Henriksen, and Bill Paxton. Oh, so it's the near dark folks. Right. Yeah. But Bigelow's the lead now. She plays like the badass vengeful cowboy. I think Martini Ranch might be Bill Paxton's band. That is very possible.

Which, yeah, that seems like, yeah, here you go. Yes, it is his band yeah I mean I've seen every show they ever did yeah you saw every show they did

I mean unfortunately Martini Ranch alright Martini Ranch went to the big Martini Ranch in the sky obviously

but I'm sorry alright I love Bill Paxton yeah who's gonna pop up yeah in a couple Bigelows

thankfully just is it just one maybe there's more two maybe two yeah I'm sorry. All right. I love Bill Paxton. Yeah. Who's going to pop up. Yeah. And a couple of Bigelows. Thankfully. Just, is it just one? Maybe there's more. Two? Maybe two? Yeah.

Two, maybe? Two. Oh yeah. We're the two friends also. That's a competitive advantage. No other podcasts have that going for it. Put a hashtag on it.

Come at me, bro. So by the way, so that's her early career. And then she works with Monty Montgomery himself. He was distilling whiskey, you know in old oak barrels on a dusty road with his donkey but then she's like monty come on let's go make a moving picture and he's like a nickelodeon i'm sorry thank you that was tough i mean a lot of their costs were just transporting that nickelodeon from theater to theater because if it would play at a festival it takes so long to get a full audience to mean, a lot of their costs were just transporting that Nickelodeon from theater to theater. Because if it would play at a festival, it would take so long to get a full audience to see it.

A lot of the cost was just spent on convincing Monty Montgomery that it was going to work, that the pictures would move. I don't know how to explain that joke. But this movie, I think they got some money or at least some research resources from the MoMA film initiative. And they made this movie for a very limited amount of money. And it did the festival circuit for years. It finally got released in the US in January 1984. Yeah. And it was made three years earlier.

Sure. And it had gone through three different titles. I think it was an early Toronto hit, actually. Yes. Back in the fledgling days of Toronto. Yeah. And it got her notice obviously.

Yeah. And it got Willem Dafoe noticed. His first picture. His first picture. Also got his balls noticed. Yeah. Oh by David Sims.

Yeah. David will not stop talking about Underball baby. Yeah. He's got some sack in this movie. Because he

boy does he because he gets cast right in Streets of Fire off of this. Yeah. And that's his first big movie. And then he's in To Live and Die in L.A. And when you see him in To Live and Die in L.A., you're like, oh, yeah, Willem's like, what, 30 pictures deep at this point, right?

Because he just seems like, oh, it's Willem Dafoe. He was like a Chicago theater actor. He wasn't big Chicago, but he was a Chicago theater actor. Medium Chicago? Yeah. Skinny Chicago? He was a Steppenwolf guy, right? Let's see. Am I wrong about that?

I think you are just because I think Steppenwolf was not as much of a thing. Oh, he was part of the more experimental. He was part of Theater X. Yes. But the other thing about him was... Which was in Milwaukee. Then I'm wrong about everything. You are. He's a Wisconsinite. Okay, so from here on out I will call Willem Dafoe Big Milwaukee.

He was once expelled from high school for shooting a pornographic film. That is cool. Bet there was some underball in that one. That is too on brand for Willem Dafoe. It really is. Wow. That's crazy. I am now reading an op-ed written by willem defoe in 2009 called what i know about

women i've never had any close male friends i wish i could do him that's not a bad defoe most important relationships in my life have always been with women okay it's gotten worse yeah i can't yeah because now i'm thinking about spider-man yeah um well i don't know if you know this but willem is defoe of spider-man he is defoe that was like of speederman you know like like a thunderclap where you like you see the flash and then like 10 seconds later you hear the thunder but i was like what are you saying and then i 10 seconds later you hear the thunder. But I was like, what are you saying? And then it sort of like permeated my brain. It was like, shh.

It just devastated me. Have I ever told you when I worked at the Disney store, the like format of the Disney store employee badges was your first name and then your favorite Disney character underneath it? I figured. And so it'd be like, Jim! And then underneath it would say like, Tinkerbell! And Disney... Jim sounds cool.

Yeah, Jim was rad. But I... Disney had just bought Marvel when I was working there during my brief but infamous tenure at the Disney store in Times Square. Sure. So I asked if I could have Spider-Man and they were like, I don't know. we'll have to ask corporate

that's uncharted territory for us and they came back and were like okay we got the approval you're going to be the first employee including the parks and everything to have a Marvel character on their badge because the ink had just dried I see I see and I was like amazing

make sure you put the hyphen in Spider-Man. And we were like, look, it's corporate. They're going to. They know what they're doing. Right, and I got it back and there was no hyphen. So the name tag just says Griffin Spider-Man. And it looks like it's my last name. It looks like it's my last name.

And I still have it on my fridge. But I remember working on people being like, like holy shit is your real last name Spiderman how's it pronounced that's crazy that you like work here and your last name is spelled Spiderman I had to push the microphone away Griffin Spiderman that's amazing what would have been your backup what's your like choice if you can't have

a superhero Violet and Crabble she's fucking that's a no I think my backup would have been Jessie the Odlin cowgirl but but one of those two i i'd take violet over jesse and he i love violet when i used to work for him plan at the comic book store my name tag was violet because at that store it was you would your name tag would be your name and then a picture of uh a character you look sure and i i picked violet you worked at forbiddenbidden Planet. Yeah, not Midtown Comics. Right, yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Yeah, yeah. Midtown Comics. I met my wife, who's a filmmaker called Giada Colangrande on the street in Rome in 2004. What? He did? Is that all he knows about women? That's the end of the op-ed? No, I'm keeping going.

I knew of her because I'd seen her films and we had some mutual friends. We were having lunch and I said, do you want to get married tomorrow? I called up City Hall and they said, if you get here in the next couple hours, you can register and then you can get married tomorrow. So we ran down there. We married the next day with just

two witnesses, our best friends. I don't know what to tell you. Congratulations, Willem. Anyway, it's a whole long editorial that you should read. It's great, and it ends with, in italics, Antichrist will be released on DVD on 11th January. So I read last night because I was just curious, like, oh, was this really his first film?

I know this is obviously his first leading role, but was this the first thing he had ever done? He was cast in one film earlier, but fired from it. And that movie was... Don't even ask. No, no, go ahead. That film was Heaven's Gate. Oh, sure.

The Michael Cimino. He shot four months. Wow. And it was one of those things where, like, Michael Cimino was trying to build, like, a sort of, like uh anthropological environment so he had all these actors who were like they like lived there right right and it was like okay you don't have any lines in the script but we're just gonna bring you on set every day and let things happen and this character like

montee montgomery was there he was a ranch hand yeah he was the town fire commissioner he was taking tin types Defoe worked on the movie for like four or five months and he said there was this one day that it was taking six hours to light a scene and they had all the actors just standing still in position

for six hours while he just adjusted the lights and a background actress leaned over to Dafoe and made a funny comment and he laughed and Cimino went Willem

you're fired yeah what and he was fired and cut out of the movie wow what a cool guy Michael Cimino was definitely not a total

completely insane coked up the chill but if we did him one two three four five six seven eight no seven movies but you could really wrap those last three up yeah because if you just did thunderbolt and lightfoot deer hunter heaven's gate year of the dragon that's a nice four what about about The Sicilian? The Sicilian.

And then Desperate Hours with Mickey Rourke in 1990. And then Sun Chaser with Woody Harrelson. Well, look, we're doing Michael Cimino next. So get ready for Michael Pacino. Michael Pacino. Michael Cimino. Michael Pacino. Michael Cappuccino. And then The Phones of Walt Becker.

You didn't invent The Cappuccino. And everyone should follow our moves. Exactly. Everyone just copy us. Yes. So, the Loveless, which was originally called US-17. And then was called? The Breakdown.

Or just Breakdown. There are two taglines. And then was called Underball. Smooth Underball. Now, okay. So, Dafoe is one of those guys who's kind of famous for showing the dick. I guess so. What's he got the dick in him?

I'd say there are a couple male actors who are not... There's like a few instances. You mean your Bacons, your Keitels. Right. Showing that little Bacon strip. Little rasher. Yeah, Keitel. I believe there's an Oh Hello sketch where John Mulaney's character refers to Keitel's penis as that little snub-nosed pistol. Yes, that is correct.

Which I can never get out of my mind. There's a movie where Keitel shows full wing, and I forget what it is. Keitel? No, you mean Dafoe. I'm sorry, Dafoe. There are too many movies where Keitel shows full wang. Including National Treasure. He shows full wang. Well, Antichrist, I think he is. Oh, he shows some wang in that. And then he loses

his wang. Yeah. To it being cut. But that wasn't the first time. I'm telling you, this guy likes showing the wang. Well, here's a college humor post called Nine Famous People You Didn't Know Had Mondo Dongs. Which is probably our greatest piece of in the way well here's a college humor post called nine famous people you didn't know had mondo dongs which is probably our greatest piece of journalism oh college humor would like to send me push notifications yeah don't allow opt-in opt-in uh lars von treer says that oh i

thought you were listing lars von treer as the Mondo dong Lars von Trier says Willem's penis is quote confusingly large don't really know what that means I'm just imagining Lars von Trier on set Antichrist Willem Dafoe walks on set takes off his pants and everyone

goes okay so places and speeding and they go wait wait wait they They hold up the light meter to it. He just goes, I need to figure this out. Just leans in, cocks his head. Cox's head? I don't understand.

Yeah, he cocks his head. Oh, boy. Can I give you two taglines for this movie? You mean like real taglines or Griffin taglines? No, real taglines for Andy B. Sw mean like real taglines or griffin tagline no real taglines for ndb sworn to fun dot dot dot what loyal to none exclamation point exclamation point oh what a romp okay here's the second one muscles clad in black leather dot dot dot incest and murder I mean it's got it all

yeah we're going nowhere fast that's a good one I would say that sums up the movie pretty well Ben's making origami right now that's how bored he is producer Ben

Ben Dusser poet laureate the tiebreaker birthday Benny white hot Benny Producer Ben? Ben Dusser? Purdueer Ben? Poet Laureate? The Haas? The Peeper? The Tiebreaker? Birthday Benny? Soak-in-what Benny? White-hot Benny? The Meat Lover?

The Fart Detective? The Fockmaster? He is not Professor Crispy? But he has graduated to certain titles over the course of different May series, such as Kylo Ben, Producer Ben Kenobi, Ben Knight Shyamalan, Ben Sate, Ailey Bams with the dollar sign, Say Benny Thing, Warhaz, and Perdueer Bain. Ah, take control.

Take control of this episode. Please do. I'm reading a college humor piece right now. Bad dongs. On air. I've made 40 jokes about an actor no one's heard of because of his IMDb profile picture. Which I encourage you

to all check out. Monty Montgomery. You're going to have a great time. I promise you, not since the IMDb Mordecai picture will you have such a fun time looking. Okay, alright. What a great movie. So listen, yes, we're talking about The Loveless and we're avoiding talking about it and I get it. I will

say this. Because it's a movie that five people have seen. Right, exactly. It's on Amazon Prime right now. I don't know when, if, how long that'll last for, but it's on it. Hopefully forever because they're a great company and you can trust them. Did your Amazon Prime just cut to gray like a few times and I was like, oh, is my signal bad? And I was like, no, I think this is the print. Which I kind

of loved about it because like, remember when you'd watch like shitty VHSs and sometimes you'd be like, just got rented too much, it's too broken up and then digital makes everything too clean and it's like, no, some shitty movies they just put a shitty version of it on a streaming site. It like pixelates and turns

white at five different points. Like five minutes into the movie and then it doesn't do it again. It's just like in the first reel. I had it again at the end. Oh really? Maybe one more time at the end. What were you going to say Benny though? Please save anything. real. I had it again at the end. Oh, really? Maybe one more time at the end. Yeah. What were you going to say, Benny, though? Sorry. Say Benny thing? No, please. I'm just trying to... Yeah, please say Benny thing.

Okay, I'm just trying to get us somewhat back on track. Okay. Because I love talking about Underball just like the next guy, okay? Well, we're going to talk about it. All right, great. But I just want to say, this movie hits a couple of things for me. I love biker stuff, right? Yeah. Dirt bike Benny. Right here. I mean, these are... A lot of that.

You know, big bike. Yeah. But still. Big bike. But I love Benny. Right here. I mean, these are, you know, big bike. Yeah. But still. Big bike. But I love a good motorcycle jacket. I love a good switchblade. This thing has a great poster. That like Defoe with the leather jacket, no shirt.

Yeah. Yeah. Like holding a cigarette all in black. His underballs get the hand. Carry on, Ben. Carry on. This is your kind of movie. This is my kind of movie i i fell asleep watching it yeah it's kind of it's not yeah there's not a lot it's a languorous it is a mood piece i mean we're they're going nowhere fast is kind of accurate i found a fourth tagline yeah on

the vhs i'm looking at the cover of the vhs you never can tell on a day like this Dot dot dot Things could be going Jake one minute Then presto before you know it Your history That's also a quote from the movie I almost did that Jake? That was the opening quote I did

I know I know What the fuck is that? I don't know I thought you had the answer No I got no idea You had a whole pause there No I just thought it was funny It is funny

Well also how many quotes are listed on IMDb?b four like what are the other ones like come on stop it i love to think of someone just carefully entering like hey you one of the quotes it says here is just rev rev vroom vroom kickstand kickstand gets the width in this movie hey hand me that hand me that wrench that's a good line in this movie uh featuring the music by this is this is what's on the vhs no willem dafoe name okay his picture is on it but robert gordon who is second bill the the the king's i don't know little richard bre Brenda Lee, The Penguins, Bill Justice, and others. That's the music.

Robert Gordon's a musician, was friends with Catherine Bigelow. She cast him in the role, and he oversaw. He wrote the original music and oversaw the rest of the soundtrack. Who's kind of like greaser number two, right? Yes. Is he the one who shoots the gun at the end? Yes. Like kind of wildly at nothing? Or maybe that's the sideburns-y guy. I mean. Yes. Is he the one who shoots the gun at the end? Yes. Like kind of wildly at nothing?

Or maybe that's the sideburns-y guy. I can't remember. But Willem Dafoe plays Vance, and there are five bikers in this movie. Count them. Yeah. A few. Right. It's a real gang.

But it's kind of Dafoe who's like sort of the lone wolf and then a group of others. Right? Yeah. And this movie is kind of like, it feels like a film school deconstruction of like the biker movie and the biker iconography and all of that.

It's an 80s version of that. So we're talking many years after the sort of biker movie craze, which you think you associate with the 50s. Which apparently she obsessively watched all the biker movies that MoMA had in their archives and everything and studied it pretty you know, recreated it pretty immaculately.

But I feel like this film is one of the large things it's doing is kind of like thumbing its nose at like how the biker How quote unquote cool these people were. How cool they were and how they like like, went through this homogenization where they were, like, dangerous people who then became, like, kind of cool dangerous

to, like, a comfortable level of danger to then the Fonz. It's true. You know? Yeah. So by the time this movie came out, bikers were just kind of, like, an archetype, like cowboys. Similarly, like dangerous people who now are just turned into things that kids can pretend

to be on a schoolyard. And I feel like a lot of what this movie's trying to do is be like, these guys were gross. For sure. This was a gross culture. Well, and that's so much of her filmography as well, right? Because she usually makes movies about men. Yes, and machismo. Usually macho men who are like maybe

in law enforcement, maybe in the military. There's a lot. And then she just sort of tries to pull all of the cool sheen down or mock it, build it up, and make it even more ridiculous. Right. She's very, I mean, her short film was semi-auticians talking about men fighting. I mean, right?

She's just expanding that out. Yeah, she's just figuring out how to show and not tell that same thing. Right. It was a problem. The short film sounds like it's heavy on the telling. Yeah. But this movie starts with, like, you know, Dafoe looking badass, music playing, voiceover.

And then. Yeah, he's, like, driving on the road for a while. Yeah. And then he, like, pulls over and the music cuts out immediately. And then there's this like weird overhead shot that goes on for a long time. A lot of shots that go on for a long time in this movie. Of like him readjusting without the music and like taking the time to set up on his bike. Yeah.

And then once he revs up, the music starts again. Right, right, right. And it almost feels like a comedy routine thing. Like it's a gag that like a lot of movies use where it's like you're doing something cool and then something embarrassing happens. But it's, right. And it almost feels like a comedy routine thing. Like, it's a gag that, like, a lot of movies use where it's like, you're doing something cool and then something embarrassing happens. But it's quiet, though. It's very quiet.

It's like a very quiet, arty version of that gag. Right. But I think the point is, like, immediately deflating, like, you know, well, it takes them two times to, like, get the motorcycle going. Like, it's not all cool and seamless. And they're going to Daytona.

It's in Florida. Right, they're going to Daytona. It's in Florida. They stop at some town and they hang out in the town for a while. Cool, so that's been our episode on Loveless. Excuse me, excuse me, Willem Dafoe takes out his balls and gently rests them on a woman's butt.

Okay, now that's been our episode on The Loveless. And we're done. See, I thought it was a sex scene but now I realize how dumb and we're done see i thought it was a sex scene but now i realize how dumb i was well because i mean if it's a sex scene then here's the sex they were having they he she lies down on the bed nude uh-huh he is nude too he lies down on top of her like an older brother lying on a younger brother trying to like keep him down by sort of squishing him he's just sort of lying on top of her. You're getting some good Defoe butt. Yeah, so sort of their

bodies entwined, right? Two hard bow legs under a napkin. Yeah. Could be like a piece of erotic imagery. Sure. And then he just kind of gets up. He just sort of like gets up. He's sort of crouching over her for a second.

He sort of does downward dog. Yeah, he's doing downward dog, and then he gets off her. Yeah. So I don't know what they were doing there. I guess maybe just a gentle ball resting. Yeah, maybe she was like, do you want to have sex? And he was like, no, I'm pretty wild. I'm pretty tired.

I'll tell you. I'm into some crazy stuff. My balls are especially petered right now. Do you mind if they take a nap on your butt? Do you mind if my balls take a nap atop your butt? Oh, God. Imagine if this is someone's like, oh, wow, they're doing Catherine Bigelow.

That's an interesting choice. I think I'm going to jump into the series. Blank check. I've heard it's good. Can't wait to hear them deconstruct this art film she made. Let my balls take a nap.

Soft balls on the butt. Let them soft. Lie them down. Thank God his balls weren't hard. That would have been really embarrassing

if he had erect balls. Past and future guest J.D. Amato. Great friend. What a good guy. The show's great friend of my life. Yeah. He and future guest, J.D. Amato. Great friend. What a good guy. The strong great friend of my life. Yeah. He and Connor Ratliff.

J.D. Amato is the kind of person I can't see. Because anytime I do, we have to talk for a day. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'll be like, hey, let's just go get a grilled cheese sandwich. Like, I got to be placed in an hour. But like, you know, let's sit down for a second. And then it'll be like four hours later.

And we're still talking about God knows what. A couple weeks ago, JD and I met up and just hung out Washington Square Park at like 10pm until like 2 o'clock in the morning. Sounds like an episode of 12 Hour Day. Yeah, it was. But it was like, usually we structure an activity of like, let's go get dinner, go see a movie. And we were like, no, we just want to talk

for four hours. Let's just like sit and talk. But he and Connor Ratliff, fellow friend of the show, past, future guest, were doing a like secret screening series for a little while. I know, I know. And it had been kind of well attended,

well received. People liked it. And then like the third one they did was The Loveless. And JD said so many people walked out and were confused that it like killed the entire series. Wow. It is yeah it's not what you

expect because I think I saw what the movie was. I didn't know anything about it really when we were starting and I was like oh this will just be like a B picture. It'll be like a genre picture with like Switchblades, Willem Dafoe being cool. There won't be balls but it'll be good. Or like some some repo man weird kind

of like maybe that exactly like a really sort of like pumped up soundtrack and instead it's like this I mean me and Ben were talking about it sort of this like proto Twin Peaks kind of like mockery of American like suburban life

just a lot of chilling out yeah it makes sense that Montgomery like teamed up with suburban life. Just a lot of chilling out. Yeah, it makes sense that Montgomery teamed up with David Lynch. It's a lot of shots of a table at a diner and some people being kind of like eating on Mike.

He made this movie, then he went to the river to sift for gold and then he went to work with David Lynch. There's a scene at the near beginning of this film when defoe is just fucking king of the road and there is a woman in like a cool 50s car who uh which is broken down by the side of the road sure and like the music is like twanging guitar and he's there like all fucking leather sexy willem defoe you're watching the movie and you're like okay okay, for this first chunk, Willem Dafoe's not opening his mouth.

And you're seeing this Dafoe face devoid of crevice and wrinkle. And which is true, but still, what a face. Right. Because, well, like. We do think of him as a, yeah, a lined faced man. He's a leathery man. And he has a crazy bone structure, right? And he, of course course has a famous smile.

Well that's what I was going to say. His mouth is closed and you're seeing him kind of in this pristine condition. What a kind of good looking guy. Because there always was something weirdly sexual and seductive about him. I think in arguably every performance he's ever given.

Certainly most of them, yeah. But it's always a little dare I say it. Twisted. Yes! But this movie you're watching when you're kind of conventionally hunky and then the first time... He's kind of slim, he's very pale.

He does have a slightly snake-like sort of... And then he smiles and he's got those creepy goblin teeth. He does. And immediately it's like, okay, right, Dafoe. He's a weirdo. Yep. So he gets out of the car, and it feels like it's this, like, sexy setup.

But then he starts talking, and immediately you're like, ooh, teeth. And he's, like, very slowly and seductively, like, fixing her car. Yeah, right. While, like, smoking a cigarette. Yeah, and you're like, okay, okay, cool. Here we go, here we go. This kind of thing. Here we go.

This kind of setup, which like, you know, it might just be simmering tension that never pays off. Simmering tension. But then he like, you know, asks her for money really grossly. Yeah.

He's like, you know, usually people would pay me for something like this. Yeah, right, right, right. And she's like, I'm usually on the receiving end of the cash. Like very kind of like stock biker movie dialogue. right, right. And she's like, I'm usually on the receiving end of the cash. Like very kind of like stock biker movie dialogue.

Exactly, right. She gives him like a couple singles and he takes her wallet, takes all the money out of it, leans to the car, kisses her, gropes her. Cool.

Rides off. So the movie's like very quickly laying out like, this guy sucks. No good. Don't let him put your balls, his balls on you or your balls on him. No. If that's what he's asking for. Gross.

This is a gross man. Yeah. Rides into town. These people are useless. Right. Yes. They're going nowhere fast. Yeah, they're going nowhere slow, honestly.

Yeah, that's honestly. They're going nowhere real moody and atmospheric. Yeah. And then they're in this town. He gets to a diner where he meets up with his bros. Including Robert Gordon. Now, unlike Christopher Nolan, he's not rolling with the Warner bros. No.

He's rolling with his biker bros. Yes, thank you. Not the biker boys of the 2002 film Biker Boys. Orlando Jones is nowhere to be seen here. Is it 2002? It's not yet. 2003. God damn it.

I was going to guess three. What a fool I am. I was going to guess three. I just simply remember watching, excuse me, an Entertainment Tonight first look behind the scenes of Biker Boys like a year before it came out. And I was like, that feels like a lot of ramp up for this movie. This doesn't feel like

we have an early first look on the set of Guardians of the Galaxy 2. You know, you mentioned biker bros. Correct. I'm realizing the biker kind of archetype is like proto-men's rights. Because think about it, like bikers, they're always

kind of portrayed where they just like will randomly throw a bottle because they're twisted and crazy, you know? Or they'll just like push somebody and laugh about it, you know? It's not kind of proto-Joker to me. You're saying they do twisted things and laugh about it? Yeah, yeah. Okay, wait, I got to pitch. Please.

Do you know if Warner Brothers is looking to make any Joker movies? They've said absolutely not. There's no money in it. We don't want to tarnish the brand anyway. But maybe you can change their minds what if joker a biker bike joker joke it's kind of good though it's kind of good it's kind of good oh my god he is a biker gang you know just the thing when you're talking about any masculine archetype then you can say like oh it's proto-men's right because men rights is like the worst people who are like, but what about when

we just got to do whatever we wanted and we were unchecked, and like, you know, like... Well, that's the other thing I think this movie is really getting at. Yeah. Which is the, like, oh, the good old days sucked. Well, right. You know, it's like an 80s movie, like, oh, depicting a simpler time in the 50s. 80s movies depicting a

longer time ago, right. It's like people have always been bad. Not that there's any concept of time in this movie. You're just sort of going off the imagery. Right, but the things that get lionized with time and become sort of nostalgic and pristine were always kind of grody when you're living through them. In the same way that kids will look up to men's right activists 30 years from now,

be playing men's right activists on the playground, like cowboys and bikers. Exactly. I'm a red pill boy. I'm a twitter troll. Yes. LOL cuck. Can I throw out a hot joker take? And this isn't a joke, this is a real hot joker take. Uh huh. If they announced that Todd Phillips, Scott Silver,

Martin Scorsese movie and it wasn't about the Joker, I would be 100% into it. You'd be 100% into it? If they said, this is a movie that's like an origin story, it's like Scarface with a supervillain, but it wasn't literally the Joker. It was like Black Mask. Right. It was like some villain that hasn't

been done. It was literally not a DC villain. Or what if it was the Penguin, though? My argument would be create a new character. Uh-huh. Make that movie as its own thing, as like a deconstruction. Scott Phillips isn't a good director. I think he's an interesting director. I know, I know. thing, as like a deconstruction. Todd Phillips isn't a good director. I think he's an interesting director. I know, I know. I don't totally disagree with you.

I don't like the majority of his movies. Right. But even when I don't like his movies, I think he has qualities that are... I mean, I'm just like, look, Scorsese, you've got chips. Why are you pushing them in on Todd Phillips? And I know he's not actually doing that. It's more like Warner Brothers are paying him a lot of money. I think Phillips is like begging. Well no it's like

Warner Brothers is like we need that for the prestige and maybe like a phone call to Leo or whatever. You know like Scorsese is sort of their connect to prestige. Well and I think Phillips wants to make a Scorsese movie. I think he's like can Scorsese like I think he's trying to do the Super 8 where it's like J.J. Abrams being like I want to make an Amblin movie. Spielberg can you help

me make an Amblin movie. Phillips like wants to make an 80s Scorsese movie. But I'm more interested in Todd Phillips trying to make grody dark comedies than mainstream comedies. But I'd rather him make that kind of movie than big mainstream comedies.

Because at this point, I think he's so interested in the perversity of the human spirit that to put that in a four-quadrant movie always feels kind of gross to me. Rather than just making a movie about grossness. Yep. That's my take. Well, we'll do war pods someday. Right.

So the exact order is Cimino, then Becker, then Phillips. Yeah. So if you're another podcast and you want to bank up episodes in advance, I would do four episodes on each of those right now. Here's my Todd Phillips pitch.

Do a prequel to The Hangover called The Bust. Jesus Christ. This is an emergency. Oh my God. It's the characters that are in high school. It's that much of a prequel? It's not even them drinking the night before?

No, let's not take it any further. He was perfect what he said. Why don't we just leave it there? Fine. Okay. There is currently a bidding war for that phrase, that sentence he just does. Ben probably could sell that.

Yeah, of course. If he said Hangover by Teenagers. Hangover by the Teenagers. It's called The Buzz. Yeah. Someone's like, $ 25 million dollar budget here you go okay wow well uh jeez i don't know where to start i guess one of them gets locked in the fucking janitor's closet yeah stop okay sorry stop you hit gold stop digging hit oil i should have said hit oil you hit gold whatever you hit gold. Whatever. He hit gold. You were digging for gold.

So there's a girl in this movie called Talena. Uh-huh. She's played by Maren Cantor. Uh-huh. She's being abused by her dad. Now, she has scars. Uh-huh.

Which I could not make out on the shitty... Tough on the transfer. Right. It's a very low-res transfer and the scars are invoked and I could not see them. Yeah. Perhaps very subtle effective makeup work that was

not perceptible on the... Amazon Prime. Right. This looks like someone took a VHS and then scratched it with rocks and then pooped on it. It took a VHS and then put it on a motorcycle, threw the motorcycle off a cliff. And then transferred it to mini DV.

Exactly. Like, is this what they showed at fucking J.D. Amato's secret screening? I have no idea. Because if it was a transfer this shitty, I'd just... Yeah. But he asks her how she got those scars, and she says says from her abusive father. Sure. Well, I've heard that once before from a guy who then later made up a different

story about how he got those scars. Richard T? Ricky T. Let's just do more callbacks to the Nolan series. That was when we were really flying high. Prestigious good. The point is that all roads lead back to Joker. Oh, for fuck's sake i really never again

just just just i never want to talk about rick again from caesar romero to jack nicholson is 33 years right from nicholson to ledger is 19 years yeah from ledger to lido is like eight years. Right. And from Leto to like To Brendan Thwaites. Whatever. To fucking Jake Paul, you know, like some Vine star is going to be like three years. So like at a certain point, Warner Brothers is going to be

making a new Joker movie like every other week. Yeah. That's sort of the like extrapolation we can make here. And you know, we all, I think collectively

as a people agree that the thing we like the most about Joker is backstory. Everyone wants to know how did he get those scars? It's not like he's a character that has been proven

conclusively functions best. Has been well known for not having a backstory. Now, we all know what happened to the Joker. He fell into a vat of toxic clowns. Yes.

And he got turned into one after he crawled out of the vat He was a crazy clown And that's what happened Batman he knocked him into a vat of toxic clowns He was bitten by a radioactive Comedie dell'arte performer Oh god And had to fulfill one of the classic archetypes of the theater

the joker yeah he fell into a vat of uh discarded playing cards and he either was shot he was either gonna turn to the joker or the rules of bridge card man and uh yeah he got the joker yeah imagine if he was the rules of bridge and he was just obsessed with the rules of bridge that was his gimmick everything Imagine if he was the Rules of Bridge and he was just obsessed with the Rules of Bridge. That was his gimmick. Everything had to adhere to the Rules of Bridge. He, of course, we're joking here, but of course was bitten by a radioactive balloon animal. And then was turned into an evil bar mitzvah DJ.

Well, that was Lito's take. No, my favorite Batman joke is just always like, ex-villain, he fell into a vat of toxic Y. You know, like, it's just always funny. Like, Mr. Freeze, he fell into a vat of toxic ice cubes. Like, you could just do it all day. So, The Loveless is about... A vat of toxic calendars.

Yes. The Loveless is about a biker named Vance who fell into a vat of toxic leather. Yes, he did. He can't get it off. Except for her underball scene. Yes. Yeah, he is Leatherman, not Slenderman.

Not Slenderman. Defoe could play Slenderman. Defoe would be a great Slenderman. I can't wait for Slenderman Begins. Someone tweeted out last night, do you know there's a CGI animated Top Cat movie called Top Cat Begins that was released theatrically in Mexico? Because in Mexico, Top Cat's like the biggest cartoon character of all time.

I knew none of these things. Like 40 years later, even though there's still only like 13 episodes of Top Cat ever made, Top Cat like lives large and he's like the symbol of like the oppressed rising up. In Spanish, it's called El Inicio de la Pandilla. So they decide to make a Top Cat movie explaining how the gang got together. Because everyone's always wondered how all those

alley cats got together. Because why would a bunch of alley cats stay close to each other? Choo-choo? Brain? Fancy fancy? Do you want to know the crazier thing? The previous film was entirely animated in Adobe Flash. Thank you.

Is that what you're going to tell me? Top Cap Begins is a sequel to a movie that was animated in Flash. And that movie was weirdly successful in Mexico. So then they were like, fuck, let's put real money into this. Did a CGI movie. Top Cat Begins has bombed. Top,

Don Gato Isu Pandia, which means Top Cat and his gang. That was the Flash movie. The Flash movie. Which made $14.7 million. Yeah.

And cost negative $8 to make. I don't know. Right. Whereas Top Cat Begins cost $8 million to make and it made half that worldwide. Wow, what a mistake. Yeah. I just love this thing that Mexico loves Top Cat for some reason.

Top Cat's fucking cool. He's the don of cats. I mean, Top Cat rules. He's got a purple suit and a hat. Yeah. What else does he do? And the Top Cat is like the ultimate outsider because the man just fucking hates him.

Officer Dribble comes around every day knocking on his tin can, trying to tell Top Cat what's up. Top Cat's just trying to live his life. He's trying to carry around a fish skeleton in his mouth. Trying to wear a nice little hat and a vest. He's always got a scheme, right? He's always got some get-rich-quick idea.

Well, he does. I mean, yes, yes. But that's fine. He's trying to fucking, you know, rub two sticks together here. He's trying to make a living right? He's always got some get-rich-quick idea. Well, he does. I mean, yes, yes. But that's fine. He's trying to fucking, you know, rub two sticks together here. He's trying to make a living. He was dealt a bad hand. He's trying to get out. Topcat's cool.

Loveless is a quote-unquote cool, you know, but Bigelow's like, or is it? Yes. Anyway, my point was just Selena, she's getting abused by her father. Well, let's, let me say. Oh, I'm sorry. You've got more plot to go through? Let me say the five words I need to say in between where we are in that point.

Sure. They go to a diner. His bros show up. They start making a ruckus, but not in a really loud, exciting way. No, no. Kind of boring, annoying way. Just quietly being kind of boring. And then he sees this pretty lady. Yeah. Follows her, starts flirting with her. She's pretty.

The rest of them go into the garage. Yeah, yeah. And they're just in the garage for the rest of the movie. Right, pretty much. It's just like, hand me that wrench. Until the very end, they're just kind of roughhousing, talking shit in the garage.

And then he gets in the car with this girl, Elena, who he's flirting with. Yeah. She's got short hair. Yes. She's cool. Right. Now, she seems genuinely cool as opposed to this sort of, like, postury kind of, like, stereotypical cool. No, she's pretty awesome.

She was in Ladies and Gentlemen of the Fabulous Stains. Cool. That's all I got. This is one of those movies where it feels like everyone is totally, like, completely dubbed. Oh, yeah, sure, sure. Which I think a lot of low-budget, like, early first films, they'll do that to save money on not having to record sound at the time. And her dialogue gets, like, especially noticeable. Yeah, the ADR is not great.

Is not great. notable, noticeable. The ADR is not great. It's not great. But it gives her this weird kind of like disconnected, heightened kind of, I don't know, appeal, draw. But they have this talk in the car about her scars, which come from her father, who is no good, very bad, don't do it.

Played by Jadon Ferguson. Yes. Who does actually get the and in this film. Yeah, he does. I think he is because he is an actor. Right. Who had been in movies. Right. But they go to a hotel room.

Yeah, he lays the balls down. Takes a little ball nap on the butt. Ball nap happens. And just as he is, you know, casually removing the balls from atop the butt, gunshots. Oh, no. Father's outside the balls from atop the butt. Gunshots. Oh, no. Father's outside the motel room, and he's hopping mad.

Making a ruckus. And he... He's mad at one person. Is it the ball napper? No. It's the ball nappy. The bed for the balls. Where he's like, he yells at her,

sort of hassles her. Yes. And drags her out of there. And then later at the bar, he comes to see Will and Defoe, and he's like, Look, I know it's not your fault. Boys will be boys, essentially. So he's got the real right idea, this guy. Right. Yeah, he's definitely a good father.

Yes, he has a physically and sexually abusive relationship with his daughter, who is clearly severely damaged by it. Correct. Willem Dafoe deals with the situation, of course, totally appropriately. Running away. Doesn't do anything. Yes. Good job, Willem.

Yes. And at the end of the movie, the biker boys have reunited Dafoe with his garage gang. Yep, they're off to Daytona. Right. They're in a bar. Yes. And the father is there. Yes, J. Doug Ferguson.

He's like, these fucking bikers. They're communists. I'm telling you, they're communists. I don't like them. He's getting riled up with some other drunk middle-aged men. Sure. And they decide to start some shit with them. Yep.

At which point, the daughter shows up and shoots her dad. With a pistol. Several times. Yeah, and he dies. And everyone else is, like, doing, like, fun, kind of cool, like, gun violence. Yeah, they're sort of shooting the guns around. Laughing and smiling. Yeah.

Not hitting anyone. And, you know, 50s, like, swing music is playing. Yeah. And snapping. And then every time it cuts back to her, swing music is playing. Yeah. And snapping. And then every time it cuts back to her, she's just standing there sullen, having murdered. Her father. Yes. And abused her.

For the horrific crimes he has visited upon her her whole life. Right. And then the movie ends with them driving away. Yeah. I'm sorry, she kills herself. Yes. She goes in the front seat of her car. In a long, drawn-out, actually really effective

suicide scene where she's sort of slowly inching the gun towards her mouth. And Defoe stands there watching her, does nothing, and then gets on his bike and rides off with his boys.

I read a review. Then there's like 14 minutes of bloopers. I'm sad I didn't get to see them when I go back and check it out. Graham was a tie-tie boy. Weirdly, they're all Jackie Chan bloopers. Yeah, they're from the tuxedo.

They just attached a Jackie Chan reel. There was a mix-up. It was just from the tuxedo. Yeah. There's a review I read, because I was reading a lot of reviews to try to make sense of this movie last night from the time of its release,

but also more modern essays. Someone said that the kind of importance of the ending, and I'm sorry if you're not remembering who it was who said this, is that in the eyes of the Dafoe character and these biker guys who are sort of these nihilists, nothing matters,

live for fun kind of thing, killing yourself is kind of the coolest thing you could do right but the thing that they'll always like threaten like we don't care about our lives we live on the edge but he's sort of they're just like frozen yeah he is struck by her someone who actually has real pain rather than just a pastiche impression you know an impression of yes yeah and he can't like extend any emotion to her because he can't extend any emotion to her because he doesn't have any well to draw from.

So he's just like a little standee, basically. Now, we've covered the entire movie, and you might say... It's like, what, 72 minutes long? 75, I believe. You might say, well, it sounds like you only describe five scenes. There are only five scenes in this movie. Pretty much.

They are long. But it's pretty much five scenes. Yeah. With music. Five like situations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Five happenings. Yeah. This movie's definitely a happening. The Loveless.

How long we been running, Ben? Two hours? About an hour. Hey man, we're doing great. Oh God, come on. Jesus Christ. Now we can just riff for 20 minutes great okay what's going on with you no I mean this was our thing

like it was like we really wanted to do Catherine Bigelow and it was like okay there are two episodes that we're gonna have a real hard time getting anyone to listen to

right but there's always there's usually that first episode the first one for us where we set the table we were like that's fine the one we need to like loosen up anyway

right yeah yeah we gotta loosen up because we get the table we were like, that's fine. The one we were... We need to loosen up anyway. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta loosen up because we get so tight. We get so uptight. Oh, God. This... I know. I'm such a scold. Yeah. Yeah, why don't you cut me off more? I hate that I cut you off during our two-hour 15-minute episodes.

When you have extensive publicity obligations for a massive corporation yeah a really good company who's only done good things never done anything bad ever yeah we were worried about this episode and we were worried about the weight of water which is a movie that no one knows existed

but that one's it's crazy it's crazy have you watched it now no just that it exists oh yes we were like wait she did this movie then and with these people But that one's, it's crazy. It's crazy. Have you watched it now? No. Just that it exists. Oh, yes. We were like, wait, she did this movie then and with these people? Yes. These people?

The problem is no one remembers it, and I don't know if anyone will watch it. So, boy, we're going to have to get a good guest for that episode. Mm-hmm. I have to weigh that out. Do-do-do-do-do. With an A-list guest. So, Marc Maron will be appearing on our Weight of Water episode coming a couple weeks from now.

I would love to get Maron on this show. I would love to get Maron on this show. I would love to lock the gates. To lock the fucking gates with him, you know? Just lock him and just talk about the weight of water. How much it weighs. Yeah. How much does it weigh?

Yeah. So who are your waves? Who are your seas? Caspian? Dead? I remember that night I saw the Pacific

Ocean get up and looked at me. It was at the Conway store and said, tonight I'm just going to do a jazz.

I'm an estuary do a jazz set. Oh my god. I'm an estuary guy. I like brackish water. Lock the lock the moat. I don't know. No, lock the locks. Yeah, that's it. You said it, buddy.

You want to play the box office game? Yeah. Now, this film came out January 20th, 1984. You said it buddy You want to play the box office game? Yeah Now this film came out January 20th 1984 Okay So it didn't come out Like

I don't know You see various like You know concepts of when it came out Right It's listed as an 81 movie But it was 84 was the proper release It's not listed on box office mojo

In any form Okay well But whatever Right I have this weekend Probably made a dollar Yeah made a dollar too 84 was the proper release. It's not listed on Box Office Mojo in any form. But whatever. I have this weekend. Probably made a dollar. Yeah, made a dollar too. Number one at Yawn Box Office in 1984 is the film that won Best Picture in 1983.

It's been out for nine weeks and it's number one at the box office. I mean, this is a bygone era, of course, and movies would stick around for a very long time. Amadeus? No, I think that's 82's winner. Of course, I guess it hasn't won the trophy yet, but it's a smash success.

You know, it's going to win Best Picture in a couple months. Like Gandhi, is it? No, I believe that's 80. No, that's 82. That's 82. Maybe Amadeus is 84. What's the one in between? It's not Out of Africa?

No, I think that's like 85 or 86. Ordinary People is 80 on the nugget, right? Correct. Yes, that's the one that beats Raging Bull. Right, and then Rain Man is later. That's like 88 or 89. Right, Last Emperor is like 87. Correct.

You're narrowing. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to process the illumination. Okay, other Best Picture winners of the 80s. Terms of Endearment? Correct. There we go. James L. Brooks' debut film, Terms of Endearment,

which adjusted for inflation, has made $164 million in nine weeks on a budget of $8 million. A dramedy about cancer that played like The Avengers. A dramedy about cancer that played like the Avengers a dramedy about cancer that is long yeah played like the Avengers

and eventually grosses adjust 108 which adjusted is 292 domestic yeah that's insane

whew um so that's just chilling at the top let's just fucking do it was number one last week.

Yeah. And guess what, Buster? Going to be number one again. No, it's actually number two next week. Okay. Silkwood is number one last week. Oh, I just gave away number three. So Silkwood rose?

Silkwood rose. Yeah. That used to happen. That doesn't happen anymore. So Silkwood, well, tell me about Silkwood. That's number three. Meryl Streep takes a shower?

She does. She takes a disinfectant shower. She's just, Meryl Streep takes a shower she does she takes a disinfectant shower she's just she's revealing it's a Mike Nichols picture Kurt Russell Kurt Russell I've never seen it

Kurt Russell I've never seen it it's like a a worthy it's an illness picture right well it's like it's like an Aaron Brockovich

type picture right she's revealing but it's more dramatic contamination kind of yes okay now number two boy I don't know bitch type picture. Right. She's revealing but it's more dramatic. Contamination kind of, yes. Okay. Now number two.

Boy, I don't know. Number two. Let me find out about this movie. It's a comedy ski film. Comedy ski film? It's not called Ski Academy, is it? No. Ski School? Does it have ski in the title? No. It's been

out for two weeks. Okay. It's going to eventually gross $20 million. It's been out for two weeks. Okay. It's going to eventually gross $20 million. It's not better off dead, is it? I've never heard of this movie. Okay. It doesn't star anyone. Two at the box office.

Apparently Shannon Tweed has a minor role. Okay. Okay. It's a Peter Markle picture. The director of great movies like Breaking Point and nothing else. It's a Peter Markle picture. The director of great movies like Breaking Point and nothing else. It's a Peter Markle picture. Comedy ski movie. According to Wikipedia, it's one of the iconic comedies of the 80s.

Okay. I don't think so. I don't know. The name is a kind of food. Oh, is it Hot Dog the Movie? Yeah, I know that. What is that? It's a ski movie. It's a Peter Markle picture.

And what happens in it? No, I just remember seeing that video box and thinking it was funny that it was called Hot Dog the Movie. It's called Hot Dog dot dot dot. I didn't know it was a ski movie until now, but I know that title well. Well, there you go. Hot Dog the Movie. Okay. That's what that is. Number four

is a sequel. I need to remember if it's like the fourth. Hot Dog the Tuvi? Oh, no, it's four. Okay. Let's see. It is the fourth, I was correct,

in a long-running franchise of crime thrillers. Dirty Harry? Yes. The Enforcer? What's the fourth one? No. Sudden Impact? Yes. There we go.

Which I believe is the one that was directed by Eastwood? Yes. Okay. Yes. Which makes 67 million domestic. Big star. The fourth Dirty Harry movie. 184 adjusted. Yeah. Wow.

Is that the one with Do You Feel Lucky or is that the second one? I think that's the second one. That's Magnum Force, right? No. Yeah. No. Do You Feel Lucky is the first one.

This one is Go Ahead, Make My Day. Okay. Do you think that was what they were like? Let's do a fourth Dirty Hair. And they were like, fuck, we don't have anything. Right. And some guy was like, how about he says like, go ahead, make my day. And they were like, great.

And then the enforcer is. Let's take a break. I need a bath. I am dirty, hairy. Finally, he took his bath. Yeah. Number five is, would you call this, it's a musical. A big, big, like, old-fashioned musical.

Live action? Live action. That's a little horror house in Texas? No. Good guess. That would have been really impressive. Would have been really impressive. It was sort of like a sort of hit,

but it was like one of the biggest stars of the era coming back to the genre she was most famous for. Yentl? Correct. Yes, well done. Coming back to the genre she was most famous for. Yentl? Correct. Yes. Well done. Yentl.

Starring Barbara Streisand. And have you ever seen it? I've never seen Yentl. People swear by it. I always want to see that. Me too. I don't know why I haven't. We're doing Streisand, of course, after. I would do Streisand.

I would love to do Streisand. There's some movies there. Four? The Pod of Tides? The Prince of Podcasts? I don't know. You've also got Uncommon Valor. The Pod has two casts.

That's it. Yeah. Now we have to do it. Now we have to do it. Ben, put it in the book. Okay, so Tramino, then Becker, then who's the other person? I don't know. And then Stre other person? I don't know. And then Streisand?

I don't know. I don't remember. You've got Uncommon Valor, which is some action movie starring Gene Hackman. Cool. Sounds cool. Scarface with Pacino. Yeah, like I'm into it. Yeah, an action movie starring Gene Hackman.

That's like, that's the thing that we don't have anymore. It's like you'd never get an action movie starring like paul giamatti i was gonna say giamatti you know yeah it's a war movie let me look at this fucking weird poster he's like got a guy on his back it's like a war movie there's that great line that pat oswalt has about uh uh the taking a poem one two three uh-huh right it's like when they remade that movie it was was like, who can save the day? Denzel Washington. And the original, it's like,

there's only one guy who can save the day. And the carapace over, and it's like, Walter Matthau hung over in a cheap suit eating a stale hot dog. Wearing like a yellow plaid. Like wearing the craziest ensemble you ever did see. I'll try to stop these criminals. And the score practically suddenly goes like,

do-do-do-do-do-do. Like, it's so great. He was like an action star. That movie's amazing. Gorky Park. I've never heard of that. You've never heard of Gorky Park? No.

It's like an 80s thriller starring William Hurt and a grizzled Lee Marvin set in Russia. Big Hurt. You've got The Big Chills hanging out. You've got Christine. He was really bringing the Hurt. Yeah, Hurt. Well, hey, he's fucking hot at that point.

He was hot. White hot. Christine, the killer car. Sure, sure, sure. So those are your movies. Cool. I like movies. I like them too.

Yeah. Speaking of, let's do the Nolan's top tens. Oh, right. So those are your movies. Cool. I like movies. I like them too. Yeah. Speaking of, let's do the Nolan top tens. Oh, right. Yes. So we forgot to do the Nolan top tens in our last episode, which was already running late. Running long, rather, because someone wouldn't hurry me up. Yeah, this is the thing, people. It's so true.

Jesus, David. yeah this is the thing people it's so true Jesus David maybe cut someone off once in a while you know help a brother out say what's the point get to the point every once in a while he's describing like the DVD extras on his Tiny Toons box set or whatever he's describing like the DVD extras on his Tiny Toons box set or whatever. He's talking about Steelbooks.

They're good extras. Don't talk to me about Steelbooks. I actually like Steelbooks. I just think, you know. No, you just got to keep them separate. Time and place, you keep them separate from your criteria. As the offspring told us. Yes.

But we both posted our tens on the reddit which would be incentive for all of you to go to the reddit which I think just cracked like 600 500 yeah they're doing great over there they've got 515 queer memes I'll be impressed once it's 600 all right well reddit take note blankies.reddit.com yeah

but we also we'd never had a guest on for the final episode of a mini-series is that true? so that like threw us off, I think, a little bit. It's like the wrap it up kind of stuff that we usually did. I guess Avatar, no. We never had a guest on for the first one or the last one. Well, we do have a guest on for Roadies. Lane Montgomery.

Oh, right. Which is sort of a... Yeah, so we did have a guest for End of Kuro. You are right. But you're right. Mostly we don't. Mostly we don't. I'm thinking through. The BFG weirdly couldn't get anywhere

for that. Although actually Joanna Robinson really wanted to do it. The timing was weird. Yeah. Okay. Nolan Less. Would you like to go first? Sure. I'll go first. Here we go.

One, two, three. Eatin' them in. The Prestige is your number one, so it's not mine. Nope. I was looking at your list. Okay. Interstellar, number one. Yep.

My favorite Nolan movie. Probably not most people's number one, so I'll admit it. Nope. Number two, The Prestige. Cool. Number three, Memento. Memento. Number four, Dunkirk.

Number five, Inception. Benception. Number six, The Dark Knight. Number seven, Batman Begins. Number eight, Insomnia. Number nine, The Dark Knight Rises. I think it's different from yours, but it is important to note that I basically like every movie.

Oh, number 10 following. Right, which I would offer the same asterisk because a lot of people are going to. We both put The Dark Knight at six. Yeah, it's funny. When most people would be like, one. And even if it wasn't one, they'd be like, two.

They would be like Springsteen at the start of a song. Right. Like right at the start. One, two. No, that's it. One. And then you take the start of a song. Right. Like right at the start. One, two. No, that's it. One. And then you take the needle off the LP.

And now comes the dark night. Richard T. Joker's making the mess of the town. Ben just gave me a crisp $100 bill for that joke. No, he didn't. He put his head in his hands like an embarrassed, he was ashamed of his son. Dark night, we're're gonna live another day. It's like he just heard like a terrible OkCupid date

happening like at the table next to him and he just couldn't understand why someone would say something like that. I think a lot of people would think that us putting Dark Knight at number six is throwing shade. I think it just speaks to how many of his films we like. Uh-huh.

You know? That would be another director's two or three for me. Right. But I like more of his films. More than that. Poorly structured sentence. Here's my top ten list. Number one, Prestige.

No surprise there because David spoiled it. Sorry. A bunch. You do say it a bunch. Number two, Memento, which was the big grower for me on this rewatch. I had liked it, but I never liked it as much as everyone else. Well, you hadn't seen it, right? I'd seen it once.

Yeah, sure. Insomnia, which I think is crazy underrated. And I also relate to very hard because it's a man who cannot sleep. Right. Batman Begins. I'm sorry. Bartman Begins. Number begins number four inception number five dark night number six dunkirk number seven interstellar number eight following number nine dark night

rises number 10 interstellar is too low i like them all and i have cited my issues with interstellar yeah and i have more of them than i have with Dunkirk, despite Dunkirk being a genre I don't like. Yeah. But I like those top eight movies a lot. Right. And then the bottom two I find interesting. I agree. Now, someone asked me why I put Following Ahead of Dark Knight Rises, and it becomes

this thing of like, would you rather a movie with very, very modest ambitions that executes all of them decently versus a film with insane ambitions that overreaches and sometimes hits moments of greatness. Right, right, right. And so, yeah, it depends on the mood. Right. Depends on my mood. Like, of course, basis of the podcast, I love blank check films. I love people who are able to reach that far.

Yes. As Dark Knight Rises does, I respect it in a lot of ways. I just don't think it's a very functional movie. It's hard to defend. Don't at me. Now, can I do a merchandise spotlight that I also forgot to do in our Dunkirk episode? Why not? Okay.

Motorcycles, they're for sale. Right. Because as was tweeted to us, I think you saw it, there are interstellar action figures that were made that have been clearanced and are still not selling. Yeah, they look like they've been in a hibernation for a while. Something went wrong. It's McConaughey and Hathaway.

They went through the black hole and they came back different. They're sold together with little cloth spacesuits, which don't look very good because the spacesuits weren't made out of felt in the movie. Yeah, exactly, in the movie they were not. Also, no tars? No tars. Which is bizarre. Give me a tars.

Sell me a tars. I would buy a tars. But they all have weird, frightening kind of looking paint jobs. Like the Hathaway one looks like she's tripping. Yeah. But Dunkirk, a film that does not feel like it would have merchandise, a very austere adult film. Yes.

Did have a tie-in promotion with Hardee's, Carl's Jr., the National Restaurant chain, were outside of all of their restaurants. For the month of July, They had little Dunkirk signs that apparently teenage girls were stealing from their lawns. Because they love Harry so much. And Mark Rylance.

But inside with any large combo, you got a Dunkirk cup. You got a Dunkirk cup. Sure. You get to Dunkirk cup. Sure. You get to eat a bacon western cheeseburger and then drink out of Fionn Whitehead's silhouette.

Yeah, I see it. Here it is. It's a Dunkirk cup. Now, this feels like a real strong rebranding for Carl's Jr. Hardee's going. We're not going for that petty kids meal bullshit. Right. We're not going to give you some fucking toy

or Pokemon card. Absolutely not. We're going to give you cups of real, legitimate adult art. And that Dunkirk cup was available for a month. And you know what it was followed up by? What? Tick Cup, baby. Oh, there you go. So for the next week or so, if you go to Carl's Jr. Hardy's,

well, no, I'm not on it. It's just the antenna. Oh, sure. That's's cool it has the antenna it says drink in the justice that's great yeah cool I got one yeah it tastes like a cup I'm glad I got a large sprite and here was my review it was sprite

I mean they weren't proposing to change the cellular structure of soda cool if they did though yeah it would be yeah um I mean, they weren't proposing to change the cellular structure of soda. Cool if they did, though. Yeah, it would be. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the Nolan rankings.

Right, so that's our episode on the Loveless, including three merchandise spotlights and a Nolan ranking. I'll say that Willem Dafoe should win an Oscar this year for the Florida Project. Do you think he has a chance of winning? No. I've heard him tapped as a major contender Do you think he has a chance of winning? No. I've heard him tapped as a major contender. I think he has a chance of a nomination. Yeah.

But it is actually kind of a low-key performance. Which is cool. Which is amazing, and it's amazing. It really is some of his best work ever. I'm so excited to see that movie. It lacks the sort of major scene that you think he would probably need.

And then I just heard all the reviews of Gary Oldman in Darkest Hour, which is, I think, just two hours of him farting on screen practically, just being like, He's going to win an Oscar. For most acting in a leading role. I mean, he probably is good. I don't know. But isn't Dafoe going to be positioned as supporting?

I would say probably. Because even though he's not the lead, obviously the girl is the lead. Yeah. He's in a lot of the movie, but since he's mostly background, Yeah. there are some scenes

where we sort of stick with him for a little while, but a lot of it is more he's coming in and being like, hey, what are you doing? But Oldman is doing so much acting in Darkest Hour, I think they're going to give him

all four acting trophies this year. Yeah, he's going to spill over like a walrus, you know. It's just going to be like flabs of Oldman everywhere. It's going to be like William Taft in his bath. Hey, maybe Oldman will do Taft next. One of our skinniest character actors just decides

to play all the most famously large world leaders. Yes. And then he's going to do a reboot of Pie in the Sky, the Richard Griffith's pie-making detective series that I've invoked before. Wait, was it called that? I think it's called Pie in the Sky, the Richard Griffiths pie-making detective series that I've invoked before. Wait, was it called that? I think it's called Pie in the Sky, right?

Of course we talked about it. We talked about it. And I hope you all watch the trailer. Look up Pie in the Sky, Richard Griffiths. You will have a ball of a time. Now, not balls of a time, but a ball of a time.

He doesn't want to solve crimes anymore. He just wants to make pie. I mean, it is sad that we lost Richard Griffiths before he could play George R. R. Martin in the biopic. But Gary Oldman just replaced him. He can't write a word. Yeah, Gary Oldman's going to weigh in. I hope George R. R. Martin has not written a word of those two books. Oh, yes.

Very busy. Can I say this? I just saw Logan Lucky. I caught up with it. I was late. And everyone had misled me in the reviews of the movie. Because everyone was like, this movie is the best Game of Thrones joke of all time. It is the best Game of Thrones joke of all time.

Which is totally untrue. It has the best Game of Thrones joke of all time. It is the best Game of Thrones joke of all time, which is totally untrue. Yeah. It has the best Game of Thrones routine of all time. It's a great segment. It has like four minutes. Yeah, it's really good, actually. And Dwight Yoakam is amazing in that movie. He kills it. An actor that I laughed when he just showed up.

Yeah. I mean, him just showing up is enough for me. Good luck. But then he has a great time in that movie. Good luck, good movie. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't think George R.R martin has written a word of those two books sure good theory i hope when he dies prove me wrong george i hope he lives a long long time yeah but i hope when he dies they like crack open

the notebook and they go like okay i guess now it's our job you know the estate to finish the book to see what kind of state the manuscript was in and finish editing it. And they open it up and it's just 500 pages of doodles. It's all like, who would win in a fight? Daenerys or Aragorn? Yeah, all right. Well, then she would have the dragon, but he's got the shadow army. It's like 10 minutes of him sketching that out, like a pro and con list.

Has not written a word. Fantasy casting for, and it's not even for Game of Thrones. Fuck, I can't think of something for my Darkman reboot. That's what I used to do. Me and my buddy Oliver, when we were bored in high school, we would pick a movie and then we'd go around the classroom and recast the movie with the people in our class. Oh, yeah, that's a good routine.

It was a really fun game. Oh, man. I was just thinking about how Adam Sandley might get rebooted and I got really sad. I'm really worried about it. Well, Oscar Isaac. Oscar Isaac's just sort of sitting there. Right, and then someone tweeted out someone who was a really good mortician.

I can't remember who it is now. I can imagine there's someone. Someone tweeted out Oscar Isaac and... You're not going to beat Raul Julia. No, he's so good. He left it all on the dance floor. He did? He really did.

The babushka. Yeah. Babushka. And more importantly, I think you're not going to beat Rishi. She's amazing. That's an incredible performance. It is going to be hard to beat her. Yeah. And you're not going to beat Ritchie. She's amazing. That's an incredible performance. It is going to be hard to beat her. Yeah.

And you're not going to beat Barry Sonnenfeld's lighting style of Morticia where you only have lights on her eyes. He's a genius in that movie. Yeah, he is. The way he set that movie up is incredible. Yeah. His first four movies, it really felt like, man, we're cooking with gas here. This guy's got to keep knocking them out of the park. Yep.

And then he didn't. Anyway, tune in next week for our Barry Sonnenfeld miniseries. I do want to do them one day. Yeah, it just gets more and more unpleasant the further up. I know, the vacation just really goes off the rails. The RV goes off the rails. It runs away.

Yeah, it's a runaway vacation. Yeah, you get in big trouble with that one. Yeah. How long can I do this? Yes, and the problem is, you know, you think he's going to run out of chances, You get in big trouble with that one. Yeah. How long can I do this? Yes. And the problem is, you know, you think he's going to run out of chances, but apparently this guy's got nine lives. Oh, no. And then one day that we're all going to be the Pushing Daisies pilot.

I don't know. Then the ground Pushing Daisies. And if I'm wrong about that, you can call me Men in Black 3. Ben, what's our running time? Yeah, great. 135 or something. He's going to cut that down to 14 minutes. It's going to be great. Cut it, print it. Get out of here. Thank you very much

for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to reddit.blankies.com or yeah, blankies.reddit.com or whatever the fuck. Blankies.reddit.com. Blankies.reddit.com or whatever the fuck. Blankies.reddit.com. Blankies.reddit.com for some nerdy shit. Now, I've seen an argument in the Reddit. They're arguing over which nerdy shit they think I'm referring to.

Spoiler, all of it. Yeah. They were like, maybe it was that one post. Start with the article at the top and go to the article at the bottom. Bunch of nerds and I love you. I'm one of you. Oh, we love them. But it's some real nerdy shit.

Yes. Big thanks to Ange for Gouda for her social media, Leigh Montgomery for her theme song, Patrick Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our artwork. And just posted an amazing tweet, actually. She's a genius.

She's a genius. She's a genius. And next week, tune in for Near Dark. Yeah. Vampires. Excited for that. Vampires. Vampires. Excited for that. Vampires.

Vampires. It's an Andy Daly reference. Tune in for that and as always treat yourself nice and let your balls take a little nap on a butt. Thank you.