Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Piano with Esther Zuckerman

Episode Date: January 30, 2022

Just imagine…it’s 1993. Bill Clinton is in the White House, Seinfeld is on TV, and America has PIANO FEVER! Newly-minted member of the Five Timers Club Esther Zuckerman joins us to unpack Campion���s Oscar-Winning erotic drama (possibly the first prestige pic to feature mild butt play). We’re asking all the tough questions: is “The King’s Daughter” the new “Margaret”? Should Harvey Keitel play Wolverine? Did Sam Neill tell Anna Paquin that he was going to work with actual dinosaurs after their shoot? Does Mr. Skin have a film critic on staff?  Check out Esther's new book Beyond the Best Dressed: A Cultural History of the Most Glamorous, Radical, and Scandalous Oscar Fashion Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

The voice you hear is not my speaking voice, but my mind's voice. I have not spoken since I was six years old. No one knows why, not even me. My father says it is a dark talent, and the day I take it into my head, to stop breathing will be my last. Today he married me to a man I have not yet met. Soon my daughter and I shall join him in his country. My husband writes that my muteness

does not bother him and hawk this he says god loves dumb creatures so why not i to a good he had god's patience for silence affects everyone in the end the strange thing is i don't think myself silent that is because of my podcast i shall miss it on the journey. Oh, goddammit. This is what I was facing. In the last moment, I went, I gotta pick one. I either try to do

Holly Hunter's pitch or I try to do the New Zealand accent. Well, she's doing, it's a Scottish accent. It's not a New Zealand accent. Oh, you're right. Yeah.

So then in that case, I fucked up on both counts. You did. You did. I mean, not that you were gonna nail the Scottish accent. Not that Holly Hunter really knows the Scottish accent. Well, we gotta do a take two. No, we're not up on both counts. You did. You did. I mean, not that you were going to nail the Scottish accent. Not that Holly Hunter really knows the Scottish accent. Well, we gotta do a take two.

No, we're not doing a take two. Hold on. No, that was good. That was actually good. And it was actually kind of compelling. Your hair is not my speaking voice, but my mind's voice. Hagrid's here all of a sudden? I've not spoken since I was six years old. No one knows why, not even me. Now I'm thinking about her having like a podcast on the beach and being like i have

to keep on going back to my podcast studio i'll trade you for i don't know my father says it is dark talent all right enough enough okay i take it into my head to stop breathing will be my last okay do you guys know about the king's daughter today he married me to him king's daughter is a film that's coming out this week next week sorry wait whatughter is a film that's coming out this week. Next week, sorry. Wait, what? It's a film that's coming out next week in cinemas in the United States. Griffin, stop it. I swear to God, you can't do it twice.

Listen to this, Griffin. It stars Pierce Brosnan. Oh, yes, I know about this. Oh, you know about this. This is starring... It's directed by Sean McNamara, who's the director of the Bratz movie. Yes, I know about this. Oh, you know about this. This is starring... Kaya Scolodero. It's directed by Sean McNamara, who's the director of the Bratz movie.

And other children's entertainment. He's got part of Crystal Sky, which has that weird relationship to Jon Voight. This was shot... Sort of like a right-wing guy. I will tell you when it was shot. Well, first, the film was developed in the 90s and was going to be shot in 2002 with Natalie Portman. James Seamus, friend of the show, is credited. As a writer. He wrote the script. Wow. was developed in the 90s and was gonna be shot in 2002 with natalie portman james shamus friend

of the show the great he's credited as a writer he wrote the script wow um it finally was made in 2013 right okay starring all the people we just mentioned yeah production wrapped in 2014 it has not been released well it's coming out it will be out by the time this episode's correct it is coming out in 2022 a film that was finished eight years ago this got added about louis the 16th and like a mermaid or something or louis the 14th sorry this got thrown out on the blank check subreddit shout out to r slash blankies yeah uh because the poster looked like a fake movie poster it does look like and her husband benjamin walk. This is the set. They just had a baby. They met on the set

of this movie? I believe they now maybe had two babies and this is the movie they met on. Oh, they met on this movie? That's the wild thing about this film.

This movie was so long ago that their kids are in college or whatever. I want to read you the credit block too. Pierce Brosnan, Kaya Scodelario,

Benjamin Walker, griffiths narrated by julie andrews right featuring a bing bing fan and william hurt narrated by in the credit block before your your end yeah that's some slippery shit yeah yeah there they are anyway yeah should we go see it yeah absolutely he says god loves dumb that's not as good you're just doing hagrid right now i'm not you are you're doing is he doing hagrid more than sure okay it's a little bit of hagrid a little bit of fat bastard good or fat fat no how do i i used to be able to do fat bastardard. I no longer hear Fat Bastard's voice ringing in my head. He doesn't come to you when you sleep.

Come on. I am a baby. What else is Fat Bastard? I don't know. America was just like, I'm sorry. I fought it. Comedy of the year.

This is it. Fat Bastard, man. What a guy like the eighth joke i'm sorry that i mentioned that because i'm genuinely upset we're talking about fat the like eighth joke about him yeah is that he is fat like there are so many other bits before that like that was why it was so perplexing in that film it was like wait the guy eats babies he's scottish he has bagpipes like what he uh he steals the mojo because he was like part of the guard to watch over austin power's frozen body but the enemy pretends to be a ups guy he does he's got like a lot there's a whole like nut shot bit where he gets like kicked in the nuts and he does also a big poop bit well yeah austin drinks his poop and says it's a little bit nutty a little bit nutty he thinks it's coffee uh felicity

shagwell seduces him and sticks uh sticks a toming device right yeah right up his up his butthole and then of course in uh gold member he has an extended sumo martial arts or whatever right sumo i maybe told this story before it's like wire work though he's like right he there's like a crouching tiger spoof where he's like doing a kick and he's flying across the room the bit i remember very vividly is he says to his opponent uh you know it's my favorite helen hunt movie twister and then he does a purple nurple sure um i think i've told this story before, but my sister, Romley Newman, longtime sibling of mine, a past and future guest,

she was five when that movie came out. The Spy Who Shagged Me or Goldmember? Goldmember. And I wanted to go see it. My dad was just like, we'll take Rom. And I was like, she's five. And he was like,

there's nothing in that she hasn't heard before. was like in the third austin powell there's nothing else the first 10 minutes has like 10 things she's never heard before so the last bit of that movie pretty much is they go to the premiere of austin pussy right right which is the movie within the movie the framing tom cruise right the book and powers right at the end you realize oh we're back in the fake which is the movie within the movie. The framing device. Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise is Austin Powers. At the end, you realize, oh, we're back in the fake movie in which now John Travolta is playing gold member, right? Right. And like celebratory vibes,

premieres of resounding success, everyone's applauding. And then a guy walks up to Austin and goes like, hey, Austin, Austin Powers. He's like, I'm sorry, I don't recognize you. And it's Fat Bastard and he's lost all the weight. He's thin. Right, yes. And he's got all the sagging flesh.

And he credits Jared Fogle. Yes, of course. Not for the diet. For advising me on my personal life. But he says, Austin's like, you look great. And he's like, wow, yeah, but my neck looks like a vagina. And then he

plays with the waddle under his neck. Romilly would not stop saying that as a five-year-old. And like my parents, like friends would come over for dinner and she'd be like, my neck looks like a vagina. She thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, it's nothing in a, that a five-year-old hadn't heard before. Hello everybody. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast a five-year-old hadn't heard before. Right. Hello, everybody. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a podcast about Fat Bastard and the King's Daughter. King's Daughter.

A movie that sat on a shelf for eight years. Eight years. It's just a long time. It's a long ass time. That's Margaret length. It is. You think it's as good as Margaret? How great would that be? It's two human children who were born in the...

Right. How great would that be if, like, everyone shit on it and then two people were like, this might be the great American movie of the decade. It plays at the Cinema Village for two months or whatever. It goes out of theaters, but then it comes back and there's a Save King's Daughter campaign. Yeah.

And then McNamara does a screening at Lincoln Center and he's, like, at a Q&A, but he can't answer most questions because of an ongoing legal battle with the producers. McNamara currently, I I believe making the Reagan movie starring Dennis Quaid, part of the Quaid-a-sants. Or is it the Den-a-sants? I always forget which it is. I think it's the

Den-a-sants. The Quaid-a-sants. The re-Quaid-a-ning. McNamara is weird. That's a weird rabbit hole. I'm telling you, the Crystal Sky, the McNamara family, John Voight's participation in most of those movies. McNamara also directed the Baby Geniuses sequels,

I want to say. Yeah, he did Baby Geniuses and the Mystery of the Crown Jewels, Baby Geniuses and the Treasures of Egypt, and Baby Geniuses and the Space Baby. RoboSafe, he did Soul Surfer, the movie where, yeah. He did Cats and Dogs 3,

Paws Unite. Oh, he did cats and dogs three pause unite oh he did oh my god he did adaptations of my beloved bruce coville alien books oh that were like straight to netflix and everyone said were horrible yeah yeah like aliens ate my homework like those are like some of my favorite books ever they're huge for me as a kid david those are some of my favorite books as well because you had a bad attitude and you were always saying Aliens Ate Your Homework probably, right? No, I don't know. They rule those books. Those books are fucking the best. Remind me, what is the series

though? I can't remember. Aliens Ate My Homework. I Left My Sneakers in Dimension X. Hell yeah. The Search for Snout. That's my favorite Dimension. X. Go. That's the whole thing. Dimension X is super, and he left his sneakers there. And then, what was the Aliens Stole My Body, I think was the last one. Sure. Yeah. It's very

like space opera. It's like serious. Did you ever read the Bruce Covel books? No. Fine. I read them. I don't remember them. He also had the other series that was like My Teacher is an Alien, My Teacher Flunked the Planet. Remember that? I was scared of aliens. There was Bailey School Kids. Is that what it was scared of aliens when I was a kid.

There was Bailey School Kids. Is that what it was called? That was also Bruce Covill. Where every book was like, Dracula doesn't perform root canals. And the premise of the book would be like, there's a new dentist in town. He looks a lot like Dracula.

And the kids start collecting evidence of like, I saw him drinking something red. He sleeps in a box and in the last like chapter they find out like everything was a misunderstanding but every time it's like troll bridges don't coach fucking dodgeball this was not i know what you're talking about but it was not bruce cove i'll just want to clarify it was someone else but yeah i just thought that werewolf vampires don't wear polka dots werewolves don't go to summer camp. There's like 80 of those books and they start getting so sweaty and they're just like

the Yeti doesn't do drivers tests. I know we're here to talk about her most important film, but I just want to say two things about Bruce Covel's alien books. One, okay, Gracker, if you remember one of the lead aliens. We all remember Gracker. Okay, fuck you. There's a moment early on.

Jesus Christ, David. There's a moment early on christ david there's a moment early on in the first one that's where they go to like a swamp or like a marsh or something that's like in his backyard and gracker's like oh this reminds me of like my home and rod is like oh do you like come from a swamp planet and he's like what no i come from a planet i lived in a swamp like what do you like you know and rod's like right planets aren't you talk about just one terrain like most right crucial memory because it's like this pushback on the lucasification of swamp a whole planet is a swamp seasonally the entire planet is one climate one season all the time right right the other thing is that the villain in the aliens books bkr is terry he's

like scary and no one and they're like and rod's like why is he so bad and they're like because he like does things just to make people unhappy this is him actually right now driving down the street like he doesn't he just he's just unkind fucking badass on a crotch rocket yeah anyway i always thought about that like he doesn't do it for money or whatever he's just like he's a mean guy he just kind of wants to watch the world burn exactly anyway those books how do we get on all right anyway yeah yeah david for once you can't complain about my favorite books because you've just been saying for the last 10 minutes we're gonna start the episode talking about you didn't even want me to get the quote out once well there's a reason because you want to talk about

the fucking King's Daughter. No, because I knew you were going to do Hagrid. I knew you were going to Hagrid it up. The movies. The piano. This movie is called The Piano. This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm really struggling to do another tangent

about Hagrid doing the movies like this year at the Oscars. Let me get the fucking rest of the intro out and then I'm obviously going to let you do the tangent about hagrid doing the movie like this year at the oscars let me get the fucking rest of the intro out i'm obviously gonna let you do the okay yeah it's a podcast about filmography as directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks make it over crazy passion projects they want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby this is a miniseries on the films of jane camp and we finally got to the titular film of the miniseries. True. Because the miniseries is called Podcastiano. That's right.

And the movie we're talking about today is obviously called The Pianer. You don't like it? What? The Podcastiano? The Podcastiano. What do you want it to be called? The Podcastiano. In the podcast?

It's strange. Power of the podcast? Yeah, that's better. What did you think? Basic. What if it's just Hagrid comes out this year on the Oscar stage? Just Hagrid. Okay, here's the bit. He's like, the podcast. Yeah, that's better. Basic. What if it's just Hagrid comes out this year on the Oscars? Just Hagrid. Okay, here's the pitch.

He's like, the movie. He just does the exact same monologue. That's what they should do. Because, you know, people complain we don't have movie stars anymore. Right? It's all IP. The star is the IP. Right.

And they're trying to figure out how to get young people back into the Oscars. Tom Holland should host the Oscars. Zendaya should host the Oscars. Characters. Everyone should be like the space jam new legacy of yeah of the oscar right ip tom holland should not host the oscars spider-man maybe should host the oscars oh my god guys i want to host the oscars but i'm too busy fighting the scorpion he swings around hagggrid should present immemorial julie's haymore can direct it'll be her i remember um you guys have heard that right what the weird in my life beatles tribute album what's his name the fifth beetle who was the producer's name

george martin yes george martin did an album that was like a beatles tribute album what's his name the fifth beetle who was the producer's name george martin yes george martin did an album that was like a beatles tribute album track is a different kind of thing and like john williams does an orchestral version of like the yellow submarine suite like everyone has their like take and connery does uh in my life as a spoken word piece and it's incredible. That does sound pretty good. He does not even attempt to be rhythmic. And he just goes like,

in my life, I've loved them all. It was 98. Yeah. We've also got Robin Williams doing Come Together. Yes. It's wild. Goldie Hawn doing A Hard Day's Night.

It's like you said, I'm sorry, you said musicians. This sounds like comedians doing people. Well, Celine Dion did Here, There, and Everywhere. It's very, really good musicians. But Jim Carrey did I Am the Walrus. It's like really star fuckery. But the Connery track is amazing.

Because you have all these people who are just like, come on, you're not a singer. Don't even try to do this. And then Connery's like, I'm not pretending. There are places I remember. That's really funny. And they play like sweeping music behind him, but he's like not worried about even hitting the meter.

Featuring Sean Connery on lead spoken word vocal. It's incredible. It's an incredible track. Yeah, in my life. But it's like, if people are fans, and I can't imagine why, but if anyone who listens to the podcast is a fan of um a monologue sean connery did called dumb movies i think you might

like uh sean connery doing in my life um our guest today of course is one of our favorite people yes hi one of our dearest friends returning to the show uh from thrillist uh your new book that's right hey when's it actually wrong so it's called beyond the best dress it's it's about the history of oscar fashion yes right it's a cultural history of oscar fashion and it is out february 1st oh so it is out in two days two motherfucking days oh my god it. It's out on Tuesday. I mean, this episode's dropping on Sunday, so it's out on Tuesday. Buy it this week. Look, there's obviously a lot to talk about in the piano, but I think we should

just get out of the way. Anna Packman, low-key, one of the best Oscar looks of all time. 100%. Have you said her name? Have I what? Have you said our guest's name? Esther Zuckerman. Thank you. Oh, you didn't say my name. I wasn't sure't sure if you easy rights esther zuckerman's here no i might have i might have not said the best dress and yes and you have a you have something on three kids i have a section where i talk about

tatum o'neill sure anna paquin and quvenzhanay wallace interesting okay so tatum wears the little suit tatum wears the little suit Tatum wears the little tux I can't even remember what Quvenzhané wears Quvenzhané it's not really about the dress, it's about the puppy purse Oh yeah, I remember that She brings a puppy purse to every single Look at her

Right, right, right She wears a dress actually that looks like something out of the piano She sat next to Bradley Cooper at the big photo shoot they do Yeah, the annual Oscars lunch That looks like something out of the piano. Yeah. It's like a very traditional dress. She sat next to Bradley Cooper at the like. The lunch. You know the big photo shoot they do. Yeah. Yeah.

The annual. The Oscars lunch. And then I. And then Anna Paquin. And actually it was really hard to find. Like. Paquin was the hardest to find. She was like a very very sheltered kid.

Her parents were extremely protective. She's a kid from New Zealand. Right. Like. I found like one interview with her. And her family. I think it was an LA Times. You told me. At the time. At the time. I think any interview she gave. Like one I think it was an LA Times at the time

I think any interview she gave like one of her parents they were very very like smart honestly and objective to their credit what child star has turned out better than her she's turned out as well as anybody no one's turned out better than she has in terms of not being broken

by winning a fucking Oscar when you're 11 and she's actually said which I write about in the book like she has said terms of not being broken by winning a fucking Oscar when you're 11. And she's actually said, which I write about in the book, like she has said, like, she's like, you know, obviously I'm proud of the Oscar. But like, I don't consider it one of my greatest achievements because I didn't know fucking know what I was doing. This is what I'm saying. She was like, that's a good. I mean, I don't know. But she was like, honestly, like, it's a huge credit to Holly. Like, it's a huge credit to Jane that I won the Oscar.

Like it is, I'm obviously proud of it, but it's not one of my life's greatest achievements because I was, you know. Well, she was a little kid. Yeah, I was like a little kid. She was 11 when she won, I believe. And yeah, her family kept her in New Zealand. Yeah.

She doesn't make Fly Away Home until three years later. So like, it's not like she immediately went to make more stuff. Right, and Amadeus is the same year. No, Amadeus. I'm sorry. Amistad. Amistad is the year after. Which is obviously a tiny role. Yes, sure.

And I think there's a quote in the piece that's in my book where they called it... They had no idea this movie was going to be as huge as it was. They called it Jurassic Piano. Because it was... Because it's the same year jurassic piano because like it was as you know because it's the same year as jurassic park obviously which we will talk about reference to this in a previous episode but like some the fucking reddit post i read about criterion finally moving into 4ks right releasing uh physical 4k discs and piano was part of like the piano

this very early wave of like, yeah. We're recording it like this episode like one week before the thing comes out. And it was this thing where like we couldn't time it out. But I'm just like, I wish I could have waited a fucking week longer. But I'm going to go watch it again. Sure, of course. But yeah, it's like big deal. Criterion's finally coming into this. And Citizen Kane and Manistice Society and Piano, like this first wave.

And someone I saw said like, it's great that Criterion is getting into 4K coming into this and citizen kane and massive society of piano like this first wave and someone i saw said like it's great the criterion is getting into 4k because they're willing to release a lot of the more obscure movies that studios wouldn't release like something like the piano would never get released otherwise and i'm like i don't think you understand how big the piano was piano was a big deal yeah it was like such a colossal fucking artouse crossover movie in this era where, like, fucking English patient is the cresting of that, right? Of, like, the total Miramax domination of, like, European sort of, like, literary. Actually functioning as a blockbuster that makes, like, $200 million worldwide.

Right. Yes. But this was, like, a surprise crossover success that was, like, very much at the nexus of the cultural conversation. Yes. Absolutely. it was a movie you had to see wins three giant oscars in a year that's humongous in a year against schindler's list the year where fucking tom hanks wins philip for philadelphia like this is such a big ass oscar year i guess let's just start with the we're just talking oscars right now the thing about the packer is her speech too. Well, her speech is crazy because she can't breathe.

She's like... Right. I remember when she... So this is the first Oscars that I remember. I believe I watched a couple of the earlier ones when I was still little.

But this is the first one I remember and it's partly because of her. You were probably too little. I was too little. The first one I watched was English Patient. What year is it?

Huh? 96. It's 94. Yeah, I was... You know, early 94 would be the ceremony and i remember when she won she was a kid and i was like a kid one and like then there was that weird moment where she gets up there and she's not talking she can't breathe she like literally cannot catch her breath she you know and my mom is like oh my god like is this kid about to melt down like i remember my mom

being like jesus like and then she like composes Like, I remember my mom being like, Jesus. And then she like composes herself and she's like, I'd like to thank the Academy and I'd like to thank Jane and Holly. You know, like it just walks. It was a very brief speech. It's odd to watch because A, she doesn't have the accent anymore. Right? No. Oh, you mean like now?

No, no. She actually lost it. She actually lost it. Yeah, she doesn't really have her native accent. She like actually lost the accent. And by the time that she's like starting to act more regularly she had that american by the late 90s and 2000 she's got the american accent right so when you watch her in this movie you're like okay sure when you watch her give the speech you're like right she's like from new zealand so that takes

you out one right two it's like she's so young she's so small you're just like the perspective of her against the oscar statue you really realize how tiny she is you know who gave her the oscar well is it who won the previous year correct okay so it would have been supporting actor in the 93 ceremony for 92 movies piano's wins sure so i also want to say pacino with wonderful long hair gives holly hunter hers. He's looking great. Holly Hunter! Gene Hackman, who had just won for Unforgiven. Yeah. And he gets his prison. He's like, these four great actors are about to give a great performance, pretending they're happy they didn't win.

It was a little joke. But the thing with the Paquin win is, I think people in retrospect are like, well, it must have been a weak category or something. And it wasn't. It was a weird category, though. It was a little weird, but I don't I, she was a surprise.

She was a genuine surprise winner. Yeah. Can I, can I just throw out my final thought about her speech and then talk about this category because it is interesting. Uh, what's odd is she's so tiny. She's speaking in the New Zealand accent. She has her little beret. And her little vest. She's dressed like a genuine

child. The hat's the thing that always really sticks out to me. It's a sparkly beret. But then like she's both dressed like a genuine child but also sort of dressed like an old lady. Yes. Whereas I feel like now so often child stars are forced to dress like 25 year old

women. Right. Yeah. You know? Not the examples examples i mean it definitely feels like her look does feel like sort of like it feels like woodland creature yes it does feel like it's from sort of looks like she's at a willow yeah yes and then as you said she comes in and you're just like is this girl gonna faint like her like eyes are like open so wide. There's the brief moment. Am I watching live TV and I'm going to watch something messed up? And she both seems to be in like such shock and yet is still more composed than most people accepting an Oscar. Like that's the other odd thing is you're like.

Yeah, because she like collects herself. Right. And she's still like catching her breath, but she's like so coherent what she's saying. And you just see see there's also the cuts to like holly and james so happy so happy for her which is always what makes me cry at the oscars is is when you can see like because the olivia coleman win what's so i mean obviously coleman's speech is incredible but stone and stone being so happy and yorgos and right lady gaga um

that's why I watch it all the time isn't it funny that like Olivia Colman in the speech makes the joke about like well this is never gonna happen again now you've become Emma Thompson she could win you become Judi Dench you're like the person who gets nominated

every single year so tell me who won the globe and whose Oscar this was you know considered to be which is funny because that was also like oh she's very young but she's like this is it it's a child actor she's 22 she's finally ready and then next year she gets her second nomination for little women and then her oscar run is over but i think at this point winona was seen as like well she's obviously inevitable it's like right here she is right she's in this movie she's Kate Hudson. It's like, here she is. Right. She's in this movie.

She has, you know, and it's like, it's a good role. Obviously, Age of Innocence, that character is like, and then has the kind of moment at the end and you're like, Oscar. But SAG doesn't exist at this point. No. She wins the Globe. She wins National Board of Review. Sure.

And she maybe wins either New York or LA. She was viewed as the winner. What is odd about this category, She maybe wins either New York or LA. She was viewed as the winner. What is odd about this category, you have Holly Hunter and Emma Thompson in both supporting and lead. Correct.

Holly Hunter. Emma Thompson had one lead only the year before. Right. Emma Thompson was nominated for Remains of the Day and In the Name of the Father. Yeah. Holly Hunter for Piano and Firm. It had only happened six times previous to this year

and it happened twice in one year. So that is true. Then you got Winona and then you have rosie present fearless which is like the best performance such an incredible performance yeah and probably was never going to win but you know kind of a whiff that they didn't but like sure the thing is paquin is so good right this is the weird thing it's not a weak category but you're like well holly hunter's not gonna win because she's gonna win for the piano emma thompson's not gonna win because she won last although she gets a huge cheer and she's actually incredible and in the name of the father she's always incredible true um she you know how like when you watch those oscars like you're always note like who got the big cheer thurn and good night good luck is what

i always remember because it's like fuck man, man, actors love that guy so much. Exactly. It's one of those things, I guess. Anyway, she gets the biggest cheer. Yeah. And she wins best screenplay two years later. Like, this is the run where she's just unstoppable. But so they kind of cancel each other out and themselves out, right? Winona's the presumed frontrunner. And Rosie Perez, despite maybe being the best performance in the group, is kind of like, she's not going to win.

It's cool that she made it. The nom is the reward. The movie's not as big. Yeah. So it does come down to two juveniles. She had won Lafka. Interesting. And New York had gone too.

I'm going to look it up. Holly Hunter on the other hand. Gong Lee and Farewell My Concubine. Fucking great win from New York. Wow. Holly Hunter on the other hand. Gong Lee and Farewell My Concubine. Fucking great win from New York. Holly Hunter on the other hand is just like a steamroll. Yes, even though Holly Hunter, can you tell me who she was up against? Because it is an incredible lineup. Well, Emma Thompson.

I have it up, so I can't. Emma Thompson and Remain of the Day. Remain of the Day. Angela Bassett and What's Love Got to Do With It, which is sort of like an all-time performance. Debra Winger, Shadowlands, whatever. Doesn't exist. Movie on a shelf for. That was a movie on a shelf for almost as long as the king's daughter yeah and then stockard channing in six degrees of separation which is kind of like her best work

yeah right yeah and like a performance so good that they were like yeah we gotta yeah that's her only nom yeah wow but you know hunter yeah steamrolled for a mute performance i know well she's got nourish at the beginning and the end but it's a mute performance uh it's i mean it it is fascinating to watch her in this because you're just like it's so bizarre that this is her yes i was gonna say that like it is so counter to what you think of as like a Holly Hunter role. Both how she had established herself prior to this movie and who she's been for the 30 years since this movie. When you see her at the Oscars and it's like, oh yeah,

she's like, oh my God. And you're like, right, it's Holly Hunter. She's so earthy. Yeah, exactly. The queen of Texas, Holly Hunter. And it is, you know, it is funny. You were talking about the accent at the beginning and like yeah her accent at the beginning and the end is like a teensy bit shaky i thought she was going

for new zealand i really did the accents are weird and it's also doing a scottish accent and it is also weird yeah yeah i mean anna paquin doing the accent is crazy because she was just a kid from new zealand who learned the accent to do it which like is insane like that's insane but yeah at the beginning in the end I mean I think it also sort of works because the voice is supposed to be so thin and undeveloped that and it's the mind's voice there's a you know there's what voice are we really hearing in this however it's like it's so counter to a voice that you expect to come out of holly hunter she has one of the most distinctive voices yeah period of any living actor and i

cannot think of another movie where she has transformed it that much and it helps obviously that she only speaks for a grand total of less than four minutes of this film you never visually see her speak but like it is one of those things where you're like, I'm not going to be able to accept her doing a different voice. I think if you had to hear that voice coming out of her while her lips moved on screen, you would reject it. Yeah. It's bizarre. Like you almost couldn't get away with having her play a different nationality in a wildly different time period unless she was mute. Right. Because otherwise there's something very modern very texas about her yeah yeah that's true and her run before this is

like i guess she's like barbara stanwick i guess she's like you know like you the film she's doing before this are she does the two coen brothers movies she does broadcast news obviously she does swing shift she does miss firecracker like this is like a big left turn from who she was developing She does the two Coen Brothers movies. She does broadcast news, obviously. She does Swing Shift. She does Miss Firecracker. Like this is like a big left turn from who she was developing herself to be as a movie star. And her stillness, too. There's something so. It's like it is very hard to define. Like there's something so still about her.

She's like hyperverbal spark plug. All American. Can't stop moving and she it's it's so and it's the way her hair like the way her hair is styled and the way her face her eyes emote but you also can't really tell how she's feeling for a lot of the movie until you can. Can I make an observation that's going to sound more basic than it is and hopefully I can explain it? Yeah, I mean, I think I said a bunch of dumb stuff.

No, no, no. Everything you've said is smart. Thanks. That's the trick of this podcast is I make every guest sound smarter by saying stupid things. I was giving a thumbs up for smart. Oh, okay, cool.

I thought it was like an audio. A mic thing. No, I was giving a thumbs up for smart. Oh, okay, cool. I thought it was like a audio thing. A mic thing. No, I was giving you thumbs up for great job. Ben started a new system where he writes out report cards for our guests, so we'll give you that on the way out. Oh, I do have a blank check order of business to address, but go on. Oh, okay.

I kept on thinking during this movie, this really feels like a silent film performance and the dumb basic ass interpretation of what i just said is well yeah you idiot because she doesn't talk but i was like no i just think the manner of acting especially the weird stillness of it yeah i think when people do impressions of like silent films or parodies of silent films they do crazy overacting and facial acting but a lot of it is that sort of Kuleshev effect thing where it is like this weird

stillness that you're able to project motions onto. Emotions onto, you know? And just like the intensity of the eyes and the looks and people just being able to really hold close-ups. It is odd. It's an odd performance. It's a very odd performance coming out of her.

Blank check order of business. Yeah, an odd performance. It's a very odd performance coming out of her. Yeah. Blank check order business. Yeah, please go ahead. Oh. So, if we count the two I'll do anything episodes. Here we go. Okay. This is my five time. It counts.

Okay. I mean, I think it counts. They're both main feed, right? It counts. They're both main feed. Right. That was my blank check order business. We count. Right. Because we released both I'll do anythings in the same week, but they were both main feed that was my that was my that was my blank check order we can't right

because we released both I'll Do Anything's in the same week but they were both main feed drops and we recorded them at different times we did

I came into that studio twice two distinct full length episodes so you did Aloha I'll Do Anything I'll Do Anything I'll Do Anything Again

yeah and then what was your fourth Little Mermaid this was the thing Little Mermaid Esther had demanded can I please come on to talk about a movie that isn't a disaster that isn't and now i've gotten two in a row you've gotten two like fucking heavy hitter 90s masterpieces yeah i've gotten two uh guarantors maybe yeah like two like seismic movies yeah yeah things that like actually like change i can do a shitty one next yeah yeah next

time we're gonna give you some real dog shit yeah um yeah it's just funny because even then like after this hunters follow up well okay i forgot after broadcasting she does always too which is like spielberg trying to be like she's our new great comedic sort of romantic comedy lady, right? Like the high class screwball. But she's like Katherine Hepburn. She's tough. Right. She's got short hair.

She plays with the boys. That's why I said Stan. Much like broadcast man. She's like a 40s style movie siren, right? Right, right. And then after this, her follow-up films are... You have the computer in front of you. Oh, okay, sure.

I thought you were about to... I was looking at it last night. I forget. Well, so the firm is front of you. Oh, okay, sure. I thought you were about to. I was looking at it last night. I forget. The firm is the same year. Right. Her next movie is, in 95, she has Copycat and Home for the Holidays. Right. Home for the Holidays, she's great in. Great movie. That is very much her doing what she was doing pre-piano. It's in the mode. Have you seen Home for the Holidays?

I have never seen Home for the Holidays. It's really worth seeing. I was thinking about watching it this year. I watched it last quarantine isolation Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving classic. Directed by Jodie Foster, of course. One of Robert Downey Jr.'s best performances. I've never seen Copycat, which is weird because I love a 90s crime movie.

Who's in that with her? Sigourney Weaver. Right. And Dermot Mulroney. Right. And I think Harry Connick Jr. is in it um i always wanted to see it but that really scooby-dooby i think it's wait so i think it's that sigourney is maybe like agoraphobic and is helping holly solve a crime of it's like the original woman in the window but it might be the other i can't remember who is and then okay and then in 96 she does crash right which is like her being like, fuck you.

I don't give a fuck. Which she's great in. Sure. And is so hot in and has such good hair and like, you know, very iconic Holly Hunter look. And then it's a lot of fucking around. It's like a life less ordinary, living out loud, woman wanted. I don't even know what that is. It's a movie that keep herself undirected

yeah the next movie i really register in is time code oh brother which is a tiny brother she has a small part and she's very funny yeah but that's like a big deal where they're like she's back with the coens like she gets the and in that right but it's you know but she's mostly just scolding him yeah right she's very funny i mean she's funny like... Moonlight Mile, which is like a big role, I guess, but she... No, sorry, a big movie, but she's not a big role. Uh-huh. 13.

And then 13 was like the comeback. 13 sort of is a comeback, right. She is really good in that movie. That movie is terrible, like, in my opinion, but like she's so good that she got the Oscar nom. I only have like a sense of 13. 13 is like euphoria made by someone who got hit in the head. Like it's even dumber.

I was obsessed with, because I guess what year was that? 2003. No, so I was literally 13 when that movie came out. And you were behaving that way, right? Yeah, exactly. That was exactly my life. But I was obsessed with the trailer for it

because it was like this it like it's sort of the way you were saying like before it was like this thing that felt like super forbidden for me like this sort of like these are kids are my age and their kid wrote it the shit's real yeah and i was also sort of like jealous of nicki oh oh are you kidding because you me? Because she made a movie. Yeah, because she got to make the movie and she got to write the movie. But I'm like, do you have to be a bad kid to get somebody to let you write a movie? I'm good and no one's giving me an

independent spirit nomination. I remember there was the brief thought that that would get a screenplay nomination. I had remembered that it had gotten a screenplay nomination and then after that obviously like she's in the Incredibles you know iconic

right and arguably one of those examples of like a voiceover role that kind of revives a live-action career to a little bit and of course Elastigirl has a fabulous ass well fabulous ass but ass, but it's also, it's such a good Holly Hunter role. Double dump truck. It's such a good quintessential Holly Hunter role.

She's incredible. That I think people are like, right, let's get more Holly Hunter out there. Well, except, but we don't get more Holly Hunter out there. Because I'm with you, except it doesn't happen. What happens after? I don't know. Like she did that show Saving Grace,

which she got like an Emmy nom or two. Where she she was like top of you know obviously she's in top of the lake which we're gonna talk about which is incredible and like playing jane campion sort of or whatever like um and like right she's on mr mayor right right is that the one with ted dancing mr mayor has ted dancing bobby moyni. No one's talking about that thing, right? No, I watched a couple of episodes. It's one of those things where I'm like, guys, he's on a scooter. This is all we could think of? She plays like. The poster?

She plays like. I'm on a scooter. She plays like earthy hippie that like, you know, he's sort of like celebrity mayor. And she's like, you know, activist hippie that comes in like. Who is this for? Well, do you guys know? It was supposed to be an Alec. It was supposed to be.

It was like. It was supposed to be Jack Donaghy. It was supposed to be a 30 Rock spinoff where Jack Donaghy runs for mayor. But it was also when like Alec Baldwin was like, I'm going to run for mayor of New York. It was. It was going to be that. It was riffing on that. Of course, she did Succession.

She had a good little argument on Succession. But this is the thing. It's like... Probably fucked Logan on Succession. She drank the peach tea. She did drink the peach tea. In Batman versus Superman. But she has never returned to leading.

Now, obviously, Hollywood is not nice about about you know women in there and look i think her standing is as strong as anyone of her age bracket getting the snub for big sick was flat out rude oh i mean that was a wild stuff that she got every precursor i think or at least most of them yeah she got snubbed for octavia spencer in the shape of water who's giving a perfectly nice performance that like she's given in Vietnam before. It was such a weird snob. It was very bizarre. I mean, I gave her my win at the Blankies episode

that year. And sometimes I go back and I watch movies that like we were all about in the Blankies and I'm like, what was I on about for this? You know, you get caught up in like Oscar season. When my mom had COVID and was in the hospital I watched that movie again Jesus Christ why would you

do that because a hospital movie B my mom reminds me of Holly Hunter I got I know but why would you torture yourself you know I'm sorry it was after she'd gotten out of the hospital and I was I was fucking trying to sort of like cathartically work through it I was sort of like compelled to rewatch it I'm just like that performance is fucking unbelievable

it's so good I I mean, and Rey. Rey is amazing. Rey is amazing, yes. Yeah. It's a weird year. But she, the thing I was kind of taken by looking at her Wikipedia last night is, she has not made that many movies, period.

And it's not even like women of a certain age thing. Even at her peak, she wasn't working as much as her contemporaries. She seems like she was a little more selective. she's done like so many movies that you're like i've never heard of this so i guess she just does what she wants to do shit she was in that sorry i was like what was that tv show and it was the 2018 alan ball series here and now. Do you remember that? Yeah, she was on every episode. With Tim Robbins, right? Oh, that fucking thing.

Anyway, look. Weird career. She's a legend forever. She's a Hall of Famer. She's Sandy Koufax. It doesn't matter. But the point is, a large part of that legendary status is this performance,

and this performance is such an outlier in her career. It's the one thing where you're like, I can't believe that's the same person. It is. And obviously, as I'm sure you guys know, she was not remotely the first choice. Six choice.

And she was not like, Campion was like, I had imagined. Can you go through the list of the other choices? Sigourney and Jennifer Jason Lee are sort of the big one, which is like in 1993, very plausible. And then Isabelle Huppert.

Huppert was someone who tried for the role and later was like I really wish I had like like you know campaign. She did like camera test with Campion and at the time when it seemed like maybe Campion was leaning towards her Hunter started campaigning really hard and she was like I didn't fight for it enough. She's

expressed regret. It's my biggest career regret. It's so interesting because I also don't think like Huppert is right for it. It's hard to imagine her as like a shrinking violet. regret. It's so interesting because I also don't think like Huber is right for it. It's hard to imagine her as like a shrinking violet. She's too strong. But she's such a good actress. She wears a good, who knows? I mean, so is Holly Hunter.

Like you don't imagine her as a sprinkling violet. But there's something also about like Holly Hunter's size that I think works. There's a vulnerability to her. Yeah. Well, I mean, but this is the thing. Campion said, I did not imagine the character so small. She's supposed to be like six feet tall.

That's why I went after Sigourney. I wanted her to be this tall, thin creature. Yeah. Kidman's another person you could imagine it being. And obviously the next movie is Kidman. Angelica Houston, Juliette Binoche, Madeline Stowe are some of the others. Houston would have been demented. She might have had fun.

The other ones kind of make sense. I mean, it's a list of names of like that you're like yes these were very serious beautiful actresses like you know who had a lot of screen presence in the early 90s right sigourney is the one that makes total sense yes yeah and you can see her even being good and you can see her winning an oscar you know like you could certainly see that and we've talked about this before but sigourney is at that moment in the zone where they're like this is the most undeniable she's gonna win an oscar in the next five years person and then she never gets nominated ever again um a hundred percent and uh but and and right and holly obviously is very

petite uh we've we've seen the big six she's she's like five two i call her holly pocket yeah pocket right she's you know um and uh whatever she wins i can probably find it i've obviously talked about this a lot before but uh particularly in the late 90s early 2000s my mother used to get constantly mistaken for holly hunter my mother looks like holly hunter but i think a huge part of that was just my mother is like tiny yeah the holly hunter is so known for being tiny and so fragile here i think my mother also looks like a porcelain doll here's the campion quote i like holly hunter very much as an actor i didn't immediately think of her probably because like everyone else i had a stereotypical idea the romantic heroine tall

with exquisite manners and i thought it would be then i thought it'd be more intense to go against the stereotype right because it's not just that holly hunter's little yeah but she is a firecracker like that's her classic you know energy on screen but it is when you think about holly hunter even crazier to imagine her being like yeah me yeah i'll show you my real right raising arizona broadcast news you're not getting mute like scottish widow out of this or what you know i mean it's funny that this movie has... Not a widow, actually. Not a widow. Mute Scottish whatever. Woman with a child. Woman with... Yeah. This movie has two performances like that where I'm

like, you cast actors who fundamentally I only think of existing in the present day in very specific regions, where I'm like, I somewhat mentally reject any time Harvey Keitel's playing a character who did not grow up in Brooklyn.

What about... What if he grew up in Queens? Like, Last Temptation of Christ, I'm like... Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. What about The Last Temptation of Christ? That performance is... I mean, I think it's

a good performance, but it's an insane performance as well. And he's got red hair, which is so weird. I think he's good in this too, but I will say, unlike Hunter,

where I fully buy it, every time Keitel is on screen in this, I'm like, you're from fucking Brooklyn. The reason Keitel works in this movie, obviously, is he's not. I think he barely works. I think he worked for me. I think he's incredible.

I think it's a good performance. Well, it's because he's willing to show hog, but that's one. Snub-nosed pistol. Absolutely. That's one thing. But two is like he's playing someone who is pretending or is like you know yeah you know is not of the land and is sort of like just sort of well it's the fucking power of the dog casting it's this thing she's so smart about casting you're talking about of course benedict cumberbatch

i assume yeah no let's talk about kirsten thompson uh but yet no exactly right cast someone who seems a little like they're putting it on you're creating tension by by casting someone who seems a little like they're putting it on. You're creating tension by casting someone who seems a little miscast rather than right. He's got a bit of a sailor face. He does. And a sailor body. Like he's sort of a little barrel chested and short. He does seem like someone who could like rough it. For sure.

Or be like, I'm just going to go live in fucking the ends of the earth. I'm not going to out by name. fucking the ends of the earth like i'm not i'm not gonna out by name but there's a person i know who worked with kytel who watching his process on set was like i don't know if he can actually act i think 75 of it is just that he's got a good face he does have a good face he's also got like a seth rogan level laugh where like only he laughs like that and anytime he does it yeah you're like holy shit it's him again right there's that weirdness of like how surprisingly jacked he is all the time into his like 60s he's such a good actor but it's true it's not like he's more buff in the piano than michael keaton is as batman it's hard to imagine kytel like doing leer right like he's not like that kind of actor where you're like i would love to unleash him on fucking the glass menagerie you know like some sort of

you want to see him exist this is why it's not a backhanded thing about the face but you're like it is true where it's just like he is so fascinating looking and there's such an intensity in his face and the way he looks at people that it is just like there's power makes them such a good match too in this film i mean yeah no sorry i'm just thinking about kytel i might love harvey kytel were you gonna say if you love him so much fuck i don't know is he married well he was with laurie brock he's married he's married he's married to uh some nice lady. Ben has no Keitel take.

I was not going to say something. The year after this is Pulp Fiction, which is one of, like, his performance in Pulp Fiction is maybe the best, like, you know, performance in a movie. Just walk in and steal the movie. It's perfect casting. Right. But, like, is it?

This is what I'm saying. Like, you don't think with Keitel, like, this is one cool customer you know what i mean like when he comes in you're like oh kaito i'm scared of him usually like he usually he's playing a heavy he's playing a right and then he comes into that and he's really really funny yeah and he's completely collected mr slick right he's super slick he's like everything he does you're like yeah that's what the wolf does that makes sense right you know like that's what's so good about that whole section you know what's so funny too is that like tarantino's talked about this a lot but he's like when i wrote reservoir dogs i knew i had to write

a part that was so good for an older established actor where i could get my financing if i got someone of that and he's incredible right and it's like that's the only reason reservoir dogs gets made is the script gets to Keitel, and Keitel likes it, and that gives him the sort of seniority. And it's like big emotion, crying and yelling and all that stuff.

Right, and Keitel, by all accounts, has bemoaned the fact that since then he felt like Tarantino never repaid him. And I'm like, the next movie, he gave you the wolf! What do you want? But you hear that about kaitel a lot with scorsese as well right like where he's like why am i not in you know a bigger i don't

know his i'm sorry that we're talking about pulp fiction but remember where he's like where do you guys live and it's like redondo beach anglewood and he goes your future i see a cab ride like he nails that line it's so funny it's also funny that the person who now uses kytel the best is wes anderson he does yeah he's so good in grand budapest yeah and he's great and fucking moonrise as well grand budapest obviously got a lot more to do but but like that's the thing grand budapest right like that's how i think of kytel yeah he's a little scary he's kind of heavy right right i feel like if i punch him it'll hurt my hand right or he He's kind of heavy. Right. I feel like if I punch him, it'll hurt my hand. Right.

Or he'll just kind of look at me and I'll be like, sorry. So broad. He's old school ripped where you're like, these aren't muscles for show. This is like brute force. The year before this, obviously, is Bad Lieutenant where he's staggering around, waggling it. Cotting the pistol. But that's the thing. They're kind of like the tight muscles.

If you catch my drift, that's it. I got it. I got it. I guess Reservoir Dogs. His literal gun in his penis. But that's the thing. They're kind of like the tight muscles. If you catch my drift, that's... I got it. I got it. I guess Reservoir Dogs... His literal gun in his penis. No, I got it. Reservoir Dogs is 92 as well. Like, he's really kind of...

This is a role. And JFK is a... What am I talking about? I mean, sorry, Bugsy. Bugsy is the... That's still his only Oscar nom? Right. That was sort of the, like...

He should have an Oscar nom at some point. Let's just give him the nod for this. Yeah, it's... And he plays lansky in that um no he plays mickey okay does does fucking kingsley play lansky kingsley is mayor lansky that movie is so bad i've never seen it it's hard but kytel did a movie last year playing old man lansky did he not he did a movie called landscape so good he's so good in the irishman this is that this is that 20 years on from uh scorsese discovering him kind of kytel reappreciation elder statesman he's a hot tier cinema in like

mean streets or who's that arc i'm like he was he was hot but do you agree yeah but that's like the thing they always talk about like 1970s for the first time movie stars were guys who look like your butcher i mean i think he's very hot on the piano i do too i do too but definitely if i like saw harvey kytel and samuel in his no no no no no i thought you were gonna like if i'm like at a bar and i'm on the prowl and i saw harvey kytel in his piano at the bar i would be like i don't know if i'm gonna knock on that guy's door like i don't know but like he's kind of weird he looks like a fucking like a like a pitbull like he just has that energy also to have a face tattoo and what when does this movie take place uh this movie takes place in like the 1850s, I think.

That's really, really ahead of the SoundCloud rapper era. Do you know what I mean? It is. He is so light years ahead. He was doing laps around Takashi. The classic Maori tattoos, they would notch grooves into your face. Which some of the side characters have that. Right.

I'm sorry, can we just circle back? This movie doesn't take place in 1992? I thought. I believe it's the 1850s because it's like... I could tell the fashions were out of date, but I just thought, well, this movie's 30 years old. I do want to read some Campion quotes about...

There were no hobbits either at all. Which I was really surprised just because you expected new zealand that there'd be a hobbit or two yeah there's got to be a hobbit there's a scene where kaitel is like come back to my hobbit hole and teach me piano it is just so funny because to give some backstory for this movie obviously we'll have second breakfast this movie is like in jane campion's head as early as Sweetie or An Angel at My Table. How do you fucking just like sit down as a film school graduate and go like, hmm, what if there was a piano?

Like this is such a bizarre movie to not be adapted from anything. You know, it's so funny because obviously I'd seen this movie before and like I hadn't really thought about it, but I did sort of, but I was like, last night i was like just to confirm it wasn't adapted but my mind keeps on telling me this is some book right or some sort of like story a folk story based on pianos pianos yeah okay um but she did sort of she she novelized it like there is the i found it there's a like the la times published an excerpt like from her sort of like right but it's weird it's got like whole chapters where she just talks about her favorite movies and it on a hammock um i read it on a hammock that was that was a

quote on the jacket yeah good for hammock good hammock read so she's got these three you know when she's right when she's made these short films she's coming like she's like i'd love to make a janet frame on a you know biography i would love to make sweetie this like little movie about sisters and i'd love to make this movie about like you know uh angeles and you know english and scottish people you know anglo-saxons arriving in new zealand the sweetie thing this is what's so bizarre by her account right sweetie was cheaper that's why but also sweetie seemed to be the idea that was least formed at that moment. Like, coming out of film school, having done Two Friends, having done her short films,

she's like, piano's the thing that's really kicking around in her head. She's ready to go with that, right? And she's like, I'd like to do something about Janet Frame. I haven't quite cracked that one. And then she gets these awards at Cannes, and she's like, I should use this momentum to make a weird, low- low budget comedy that no one will let me make later in my career. The weird foresight she has is if I make piano

now I can't go backwards to Sweetie. Right. I can do Sweetie now and evolve to piano but it's somehow even harder to imagine her just being like I have this idea for the piano fully formed in my head I'm going to sit on it for four years.

I would say she needed more money to make. I feel like I'm allowed to. I went to a reception for Power the Dog this year. You're allowed. Griffin's allowing you on the podcast. I spoke with her.

I know about this um yeah i told david and i had just watched holy smoke talked with jay dog yeah i talked with jay dog cool um uh i also talked with her current producer tanya who rules and is so fun okay I'm sorry so stupid this podcast no but I was talking there and I said like I had just seen Holy Smoke for the first time and it sort of blew my mind.

And she said something about, like, wanting to make a comedy again, which is so interesting to me. Because also, like, I do feel like I wanted to mention this, too, that, like, obviously I didn't see the piano when it came out. I was three years old. And Hummelberg, yeah. But I had this impression of it as this like very and it is a very serious movie but this sort of like very sort of like stayed oscary movie and then you know you look at her other work and like she is funny and there is funny stuff like she is you know and i thought that was really interesting well and like her

short films are very comedic sweetie is so much more of a comedy than i expected uh when i saw it for the first time and then i i talked about in our episode which hasn't come out at the time that we're recording this but i watched uh sweetie with commentary and she's just so fucking funny as a person yeah and so jokey and even talking about like her more serious films that come later in her career she is she it's odd i mean and like power the dog is very funny like a lot of her quote-unquote serious movies are imbued with very funny weird the dog is hilarious comedic vibe the funniest moment in power the dog for me is like jesse plemmons has come back to

the the sort of kitchen where um where kirsten dunst is working and he like just looks at a he takes a he takes a like a container and it's like he looks at it and he's like sauce. It's like it's like he reads the label and he's like goes well on savory. And it's just like it's a very deadpan and it's very funny to me. She's like very into the weirdness of human behavior. Yeah. And the thing she says on the sweetie commentary, which I've already said, but it just bears repeating, is that she's like, I always go out of my way in all of my movies to try to have a nude scene and to show people going to the bathroom

I'm sorry we've made like this how long have we been recording and we haven't talked four hours we haven't gotten horny yet like what are we doing well look at me building a bridge to horniness yeah I'm just like what are we even doing we're gonna get horny

doing context I have nudity we haven't even got to first base come on Esther and I like slack each other every day if there's like boobs in something we're watching it's just ridiculous we're all so bored in our fucking homes

like watching art films and Esther's like some good boobs boobs in that Sunday screener. Okay, you started the boobs thing. Yes, sure. Not trying to pass the buck. I wasn't the one that was like first messaging David. Do you want to call Esther if it hurts your professional? No, no, no.

I just wanted to make it clear that you were the one who initiated asking me if there are boobs in a movie. And then now I will just. Or dick. Or dick. And now I will just tell you if there are boobs in a movie. Esther, thank you for clarifying. We should, of course, mention that you are currently angling for the job of chief film critic for Mr. Skin. Yes.

Yes, of course. That's funny to imagine, like, a bunch of critics watching a movie taking notes and the mr skin guys just like sitting bored and then there's a new scene he's like oh he's not even horny he's just furiously writing notes like in the cut the like one in knocked up in the cut they they make a joke he makes a joke because he's like who's your favorite actress and she's like meg ryan he's like bam in the cut boobs bush yeah she doesn't like it website which they don't realize is i mean yeah one of the best jokes in knocked up is that he doesn't he's doing a mr skin and then halfway through paul rudd's like wait that's just mr skin like they acknowledge this site exists sidebar what makes that

joke so funny doing the face well a doing the face but b you're also giving you're assuming the movie is operating on movie logic where you're like this doesn't exist within the movie like there's no 60 on the sunset strip and then unlike studio 60 when they say like whoa lauren over at snl and destroys the reality this is the comedic version of that where they're like, no, there's a real version of this. Your business idea is bad. I just didn't know. Yeah, okay, so let's get horny.

No, no, no. David wants to do more context. We can let David do more context. She says that she always tries to put nude scenes and bathroom scenes. There's a peeing scene in this movie in all of her films. Right at the start peeing right like two minutes in and later too yeah right they're multiple yeah and like multiple full frontal but um she's like i just think it's like funny like it's goofy it's it's like interesting to watch people in this very like odd awkward

vulnerable state like she doesn't think of it as being this super erotic thing. She's almost just like, it's very weird to look at someone's naked body and how people move when they're naked. If we're talking about peeing on screen, can I just tell you a really random thing that's in my brain? I have this very strong memory

and I don't think it's actually in the movie of, because I think it's something that i invented i don't i don't know maybe it is i haven't re-watched this movie that recently but i saw the jillian irons round little women when i was like four and i have a memory of like somebody in that movie hoisting up their petticoats and peeing that can't be true like in the like sort of like pg all for the family like is it i mean i don't know i haven't seen that movie since i was a kid i'm pretty sure it's absolutely right you're or you're you're thinking of some other movie right i went and looked for it scrubbed scrubbed through the netflix right you check mrpiss.com it probably exists absolutely exists my friend

but it's this thing of like when I was a child just like being so obsessed with that movie and so obsessed with the idea of petticoats but also trying to like how do you pee in that? yeah like also trying to sort of like in my brain reconcile

like human bodily functions with the like fantasy. You invented the scene because you were caught up in the logic of how they. Right. I think so. Right. It's like the Harry Potter thing.

I can't pause it. Yeah. What? Harry Potter. Remember like at some point J.K. Rowling was just doing the thing where she like writes blog posts. Well, and she was like, they take a shit on the floor and then. Before they had plumbing, they would just clean it up with their wands

and like clean what up how when like would they just stop and wear

I don't think it's exactly like that her explanation is even weirder than what David just said I'm telling you no they would just shit on the floor

and then they'd like but like anyway okay I didn't want to derail this but it's just like a weird like

incepted memory that I have sure yes yes you didn't derail derail this, but it's just like a weird, like, incepted memory that I have. Sure. Yes, yes. You didn't derail anything. You re-railed it. Yeah, you re-railed it. I just think it's funny that, and everything you're saying is true, Griff, about, you know, she demands certain things from her.

Like, not everyone's going to be able to be in a Jane Campion movie, right? Like, you know, that's probably part of it. Yeah. She's going to want, right, she might want nudity or some you know weird like you know characters anyway she's making this movie which is like about new zealand to her right like that's how she talks about it sure you know when when she's sort of just trying to because it's hard for her to describe this project in these interviews she's like yeah it's sort of about like anglo settlement in new zealand and she picks holly and Harvey Keitel as the leads. Mr. Brooklyn and Miss Texas.

It's so insane and it works. They're two of the most regionally specific actors. I think she was probably like, I mean, Sam Neill is wonderful in this movie, but she's probably like required by law. It's like, come on. You have to cast someone from around here. And just insane that this is the same year

as Jurassic Park. That he has like the highest... I was watching it And just insane that this is the same year as Jurassic Park. That he has like... That's right. The highest... It's the same year as Jurassic Park. I was watching it yesterday. He's getting cucked by Goldblum in park. Yeah. He's getting cucked by Keitel here.

He's getting cucked by the Rex in park. Which filmed first? Which filmed first? Do you know? I have to assume it's... Jurassic Park. Well... Yeah, because post-production on that must have been a nightmare.

Well, there's a whole... Yeah, because I think it's like... I mean, he shot all... Excuse me, where did that whistle come from? I was watching yesterday and Bob would come in and watch it. He was like, do you think Sam Neill on set was just like to little tiny Allison... Allison. To little tiny Anna Paquin like, I've seen dinosaurs.

Like, I motherfucking see dinosaurs. My logic is that they shot all of Jurassic Park and then Steven Spielberg was supervised dinosaurs like i motherfucking yeah wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait this shot after at the same time as shin the piano shot from april to july 1992 okay and jurassic park shot from august to fuck knows when so yes he went neil went right from this to jurassic park

yeah oh so he did this was first yeah this was first jesus so he couldn't tell tiny anna pack when i've seen dinosaurs uh he could not but but he could probably say, I'm going to go see dinosaurs. And of course, I'm sure when he arrived on set, Richard Attenborough said, welcome to Jurassic Park. He said, welcome to base camp. Your trailer is over there.

Do you think that's like just everyone arriving? Breakfast burritos. He's like a Walmart reader. This is Richard Attenborough. Welcome to, and they're like, what? And he's like, it's in the movie.

You'll see. It is like such a failing of the Universal Studios theme parks that they don't have a cast member. I don't even need them to be doing like a Hammond depression. Right. But that when you enter that area, there isn't a person whose job is to just say that a million times a day. I can't tell you how sad I am that the Jurassic Park ride in Hollywood is now Jurassic World.

This is some Griffin talk. I know. I've gone on it twice now and how is it i it's it's good but i there is i think the original jurassic park ride was getting a little bit creaky it was i did go on it like the last summer it was open because i was at the park to write my water world story um which which I talked about on this pod before. Of course. But one of my proudest moments.

And they gave me a press ticket to the park, and I was just there by myself. And I was like, I guess I'm going to go on Jurassic Park one more time before it goes away. An insane fact. Oh, no, sorry. What were you going to say? Oh, no. It was great. It clearly needed a little bit of renovation, And instead it became a general retheming.

I do think it's impressive. I obviously have no love for the modern world franchise. I will say this as just an objective fact. I love Universal Hollywood. I'm a lunatic who buys the annual pass, though i live in new york did you see the business insider story or insider whatever it's called these days where a girl was like i gave up my co-working space and i bought an annual pass to universal studios hollywood and i just work out of the park i know several people who've done that that's psychotic do you know how much annual pass costs no it's like 200 or whatever it's less and a ticket for one day costs like a hundred dollars

okay so it's just worth it if you go more than once a year and i know people are just like i work out of the fucking three broomsticks cafe yeah she was like she was like i get my beer at most tavern when i'm done with work if i lived in la i would absolutely do this because i'm a maniac but i just think it's interesting that we can move on from this i do think the jurassic world's pretty successful despite not loving those movies i do find it interesting that the couple of times i've been since jurassic world reopened there is constantly less of a line for that there was for the park right there's never any way yeah um also it's a pandemic yeah that's true. That's true. But other other rides have like a fucking hour plus. By the way, I think your Waterworld piece is one of the only reasons there's now a new Waterworld TV show.

That's a theory I have. Thank you. I hope that's true. I think Universal is like, wait, we have weird. I ran into your friend Alex Ross Perry at a party like years ago when those still happened. your friend alex ross perry at a party like years ago when those still happened and he was like i was like oh like i was introducing myself like through blank check and he he mentioned that he'd read my water rolled store okay back to the piano part of the cast she says i'm just like is completely unfocused she says it's bizarre that i chose harvey kytel she admits it like i

know that i associated him with like younger like mean streets bad timing the duelist like you know 70s kytel right she saw the two jakes which i guess was a recent kytel movie at that point sure yeah not exactly right not the one you'd think like hey she liked him in that she sent him those who don't know just to clarify because it's a movie that i think most people would be astonished if it even existed. Jack Nicholson Day, decades later, Chinatown sequel that he directed. Correct. Oh, Jesus.

Keitel's the second lead in it. Yes. That's fascinating. It just doesn't exist. Is it good? No. No, it's interesting. But she sends him the script. He was divorcing

or breaking. Was he married to Rocco or were they just breaking up? They were married. Their breakup is very messy. He was going through a notorious breakup with Lorraine Rocco. Which I didn't know about until recently and I don't want to get into but I was sort of

shocked. Campion says what was happening in his life in the time he wanted to act in a film that spoke to the relationships between men and women rather than another like cops and robbers movie interesting you know what i mean like i think like he had never been tender on screen basically like he was interested by the script for that reason well and also just look at the run of all the films we were just talking about he's doing around this period of time, right? Mickey Cohen, The Wolf,

Bad Lieutenant, Reservoir Dogs. Mr. White, yeah. Right, like fucking 2J. Like he's playing always either cops or criminals. Judas,

the greatest criminal of all. He betrayed our father. Son, whatever, whatever Jesus. But like especially post. What's Jesus? Not mine. Ben's going my face like

jesus is mad at me um yeah i don't know if it's jesus as much as his fans but then you know what although he is in thelma and louise which obviously he plays a cop but he's weirdly the sympathetic figure in that one but still he's just almost always a cop or a criminal definitely because that's you know that's his that's how he exists yeah right um and uh yeah so that's you know obviously um what does monkey trouble come out relative to this movie monkey trouble that's the one with the monkey yeah and thor birch it comes out a year later okay uh can you tell me the um tagline Monkey Trouble? Here comes Monkey Trouble? No.

Good tagline. Oh, this looks like a double tagline, actually. Sorry. We got to look this one up. Monkey business. I think I saw this movie in theaters. I always forget which animal movies I saw in theaters. Okay.

Tagline one. He's cute. He's cuddly. He's a klepto. Because the monkey has like a vest with watches that he's cute. He's cuddly. He's a klepto. Because the monkey has a vest with watches that he's stolen. I forgot how good the poster was. And he and Thor Birch

are wearing the same backwards red baseball cap. Yeah, they look like crisscross. And then the second tagline is, what would you do if the pet you wanted most was one of America's most wanted? I didn't know that. Anyway. What would you do? I don't know. Not worry about it.

I think I told the villain in that. Probably. I'm going to get that monkey. Yeah, got to get that monkey. That monkey's got to go to jail. So that, Keitel is, he's swerving.

I'm just saying, everything could go wrong here. Holly Hunter, like, is bizarre casting on paper. Harvey Ke Hunter is bizarre casting on paper. Harvey Keitel is insane casting on paper. Sam Neill is perfect casting. And she admits that.

She was like, I chose him right away. He's really handsome. His face is kind of perfect for the role. Arguably the most dialogue heavy role is given to an unknown 10 year old girl like paquin has more dialogue than anyone else of course yeah um obviously the the most interesting thing i think is also it's like kytel is all method right like that he is like a prime method guy yeah i was fucking being crazy sam neill's like a classically trained new zealand whenever i hear the name name Harvey Keitel, this is another

one of my weird family stories. I always think of this impression my dad does of Burt Lancaster saying Harvey Keitel method actor which is like Harvey Keitel method actor, which he heard

from Peter Riegert, who Burt Lancaster told this story to on Local Hero. Because Peter Riegert was friends with my parents, or was friends with my parents. One of the all-time great Jews, Peter Riegert. Wait, is Peter Riegert not with us?

No, no, no. You said was. Well, they're not, like, close. They should man that. Trouble in paradise. They're not, like, not close. They're just not trouble in paradise they're not like not close they're just not like they used to be very good friends i don't know your parents i don't want to criticize them but if i were friends with peter riegert i would prioritize maintaining that remember how funny he was in uh kimmy schmidt he was great in kimmy schmidt he also showed up for like two seconds in succession i know that was weird because that was one of those things where

you're like okay this is gonna be a build role right become the new lead character of the show right but yeah so whenever i hear harvey kytel and method actor i think of this like weird like three level removed like impression just like harvey kytel method actor i want to read um these quotes this one from k Keitel is so good about working with Jane Campion. Is this from the New York Magazine profile? I don't think so. Oh, okay.

Jane Campion is a goddess and it's difficult for a mere mortal to talk about a goddess. I fear being struck by lightning bolts. Wow. This is from the New York Times Magazine profile. This says this is from the Christian Science Monitor. Maybe he said this multiple times. Or whatever whatever the next day he called to clarify what's it so he calls back i guess after giving that weird quote what's

unusual about her has to do with ethereal things she is at play like a warm breeze and i love the guy picking up the phone being like warm breeze got it thank you for clarifying yes that really really like settles it down, you also have to think about who's Keitel working with as directors, right? Like Tarantino, Scorsese, all the guys. I'm going to go watch any movies right now.

Yes, absolutely. Sam Neill says when you're an actor, you're putting yourself in other people's hands. She repays that gesture. She's interested in complexity, not reductiveness. She's very sure of what she's doing. If you have an opinion

contrary to her, she listens with the greatest care and consideration and does what she had in mind all along. That's a good quote. Which I love. Yeah. And Genevieve Lemon, who's in this... By the way, this is exactly the magazine profile that i pulled that's fine i'm just reading from the dossier okay getting home david uh genevieve lemon i love this yeah sweetie herself she's always saying strip strip give me less acting

cool right it just sounds so cool yeah um but uh right everything we're saying yeah holly hunter crazy casting right tell crazy casting then as you say they also have the challenge of we need a child actor who has to shoulder a lot of the vocal burden right um who can handle like a workload is she sort of a linchpin of the movie but also she has to speak for the female lead essentially and like she has to do sign language. She has to be like, she's the one character who's sort of the intermediary between all the other characters. And I mean, it's just one, obviously. Two stoic men who don't talk that much and a mute woman.

It's that classic, like, they, you know, saw hundreds of kids and she was just so i don't know how it works with child actors like they're probably just like some kid who's just so poised and like can learn i'm sure griffin probably has insight on this but i was also thinking about this too in the context of like obviously anna packman's performance is amazing but i was thinking about this i'm not i don't think you have david but i'm not sure if any of you guys have watched the show yellow jackets there's like a creepy kid in it. And I was like, I was like thinking about those like the creepy kids that you cast. It's like, what do you tell them to do?

Just like be creepy. Like, how does it work? Like, I don't know. It's it's bizarre. It's bizarre. I mean, I used to always have that thought. And I started auditioning for stuff. And you're like, oh, I'm signing in to audition for like fucking like a desperate

virgin number two like the character's name is or the breakdown like describes you and such on flattering terms or whatever it is and when when it's kid roles it's that much more of a mind fuck i i mean i think no where are you gonna say astro oh no i was just jumping off of virgins i have something to say oh please yeah um put a put a pin in virgins, I have something to say later. Oh, please. Yeah. Put a pin in virgins, David. You were tweeting about this movie with past and future guest Alan Sepulmore because you just posted a photo of Anna Paquin's Oscar speech, David. This morning I rewatched all their Oscar wins, right? It's just such an image.

And your wording was, because Sepulon was sort of saying like, I haven't watched that since it came out. It didn't really stick with me. Is that movie like, was that just hype or this and that? Like that performance, her winning the Oscars, kind of weird.

I remember being sort of flummoxed by it. And your wording was, do you want to recite it directly? Let me call up. Oh, wow. Wow. I'm on a great page right now. Twitter.com slash David L. Sims.

What? Gotta bookmark that one for later. She's incredible. It's probably the most poised child acting performance of a generation. Which I thought that was a very good way of putting it, because as much as she does have the burden in this movie of carrying

so much of it, it's kind of surprising that she doesn't necessarily have the big oscar scene yeah when you think of her as an oscar winner you're like right there must be something where she melts down well i don't know she has a scene where she's like where she runs into stewart sam neil and she's like where is she going and she's like to hell or like um which is great she's like, where is she going? And she's like, to hell. Or like, which is great. She's got moments. And she has the moment where she's like tasked with it's so fucked up bringing the finger to Baines, to Harvey Keitel.

And just fully melts down. And he's like sort of shaking her being like, what did they do to your mother? And the woman who is with him is like, she's a child, like holding her mother's finger. She's got big moments, but it is like the win is kind of more like David, as you said. Yeah. How is this girl so poised? And also like she has to kind of carry this entire fucking thing on her shoulders. shoulders i i remember the the recently departed peter mcdonough talked about how like the thing that he thinks got tata boniel the oscar is that so much of that movie plays out in long

one-er takes of the two of them she's so good in that movie right and he's like the fact that i'm not cutting around her and that most child performances people know you just get a lot of shit and you put it together in post yeah that it That it's like, here's a five page dialogue scene. Was he wearing a cravat when he said this though? His big defense of that was that it was not, it was a cowboy handkerchief. He took it up on Last Picture Show and then people think it's pretentious

and it was actually a cowboy handkerchief. Leave me alone. I've heard him say that before. I think at a fucking Q&A before that. I mean, the best thing is his water jug in The Sopranos. Sure. Where Jonah Hill was like, apparently like met him and was like, best thing is his his water jug in the sopranos sure where jonah hill

was like apparently like met him and was like why do you have a water jug with a mesh bag over it in the sopranos he's like i brought it from home and he said i could use it that's that's why there's that joke in the documentary now episode i think it's the mr showbiz episode or whatever where he makes some line about like i made a bet with anyway that's the reason i've been wearing a damn handkerchief for the last 50 it's funny you bring up tatum like tatum o'neill because i do that is like sort of one of the other because like in the sort of chapter that i talk about um kids it's like this idea and like because it's about fashion like this idea with Tatum is this like little girl trying to pretend she's something that's not a little girl and her whole life has been forced into

this. And she chooses the tux because it's because she was in all Bianca Jagger, who her father fucked at the time. And, you know, and her whole the whole story around it is so sad because it's like also she writes in her memoir that when she found out that he she got an Oscar nomination and

Ryan O'Neill didn't he punched her yeah well he's a real cunt he's like one of the worst people in American history and the like and Paquin is so interesting too because it's like and the whole thing about like the Tatum performance is this sort of like kid that's wise behind beyond her years. And the whole thing that's really interesting, I think, about the Paquin performance, not that they're like, is that Flora is a child like there's Flora is such a child.

Like it's not like a paper moon performance where you're like, oh, is sort of like a wise talking like you know kid who's like above like flora is a kid she's she's doing the cartwheel she's singing songs she's she's all energy and chaos yeah ratty in the way that a child is bratty and she her allegiances switch in a way that a child's allegiances switch she says like at the beginning you know like i'm not gonna call him papa and then by the end when she's sort of turning on her mother because she feels you know ignored by her she's calling sam the old papa and it's so and she is like that's what's sort of amazing about the performance too because it's it is poised it is like preternatural in a way but it's also it's a performance of a child it's not

mannered it's not like like i love sersha ronan in atonement and obviously she's playing a very like sort of calculating character in that but it's a very mannered performance and sersha ronan is notoriously one of those people who like is like dakota fanning or whatever where it's like from the youngest age she showed up on set and had the intensity and intelligence of an adult she was a little adult little actor right exactly right it was a very psychologically thought out process and you're saying like yeah absolutely uh but that paquin sort of like i didn't know what the fuck i was doing at that point in time yeah compared obviously the disparity between her and tatum o'neill and you have to compare them because they're the two straight up children to win competitive oscars right tata moneal is like could not be more in the hollywood system right in showbiz and also can never come out from the shadow of her childhood

performances which even after paper moon is like bad news bears where she's also playing beyond her years you know and like nickelodeon where she's doing the same thing with bug donovichich and her dad again, all that sort of shit. And she like cannot figure out as an adult, whether whereas Anna Paquin has like several phases of her career where she constantly plays the correct age she is at that moment. Yeah. In different styles and whatever. But I do think there's the similarity in those two performances where you're just kind of like they gave me Oscar the Oscar because they kind of went like, there's clearly no trick here. Like, you just kind of have to admit that this kid is pulling off this incredible thing. They're also not really

supporting performances. Absolutely not. But they're children, so they're sort of like immediately pegged as supporting, but they're sort of not supporting performances. You can get away with

the Paquin thing because... She's literally supporting her mother. It's kind of like the Brad Pitt in Hollywood thing where it's like, well, he is on screen all the time, but he says, like, I carry your bags. I am supporting. She is speaking for her. And they're the same gender,

and there's already best actors. Well, that's also true. The fucking Paper Moon one is more egregious. That one's crazy. And it sets a bad precedent for any younger actor to be put in supporting. Because yeah she is the lead of that movie um but i i do think like kovanzini is a great example of like that's a very striking performance but i think everyone who worked on that movie would tell you like and and publicly have done so like that was a very

improvisational movie they shot a lot of footage they They cast her based on energy. And that's a child that's reacting to a world around her. They're capturing a thing. That movie's being made in this very chaotic way. But I do, you know, this movie's crazy. I wonder what Jane Campion's directing style was on it. You think of this as such an epic movie because of the period setting, but it's not really. It really just has like three or four locations.

No. It's right. But it's also, but like the has like three or four locations it's right you know but it's also but like the beach location it looks so good right yeah it feels so sweeping like that you know those that image of them on the beach and but you really it's like you really i mean which is the sense she wants you to get it's like these people are fucking landing on a beach on it's the ends of the earth. They've come from Scotland. God knows how you would get from Scotland to New Zealand in the 19th century. I mean, I know you like take a boat.

But like, it's crazy. It's so far. And then it's like, yeah, welcome to New Zealand. There's a bunch of fucking like forests and jungles. You want to build a house in there? Be my guest. Like, it's a crazy place to be. And I will just, I do want to point a house in there be my guest like it's a crazy place and i will just i do want to point out that like some indigenous writers have taken issue with the way she portrays the indigenous

community like over time it's another thing to get into at a different point but like it's complicated and just as a note but like it is this sort of you know it's it's so foreign to these people like to these they they They are foreign in this film, but that is because this film is not from their perspective. That's sort of the ultimate thing. It's like, this isn't about them, but obviously it acknowledges that there she worked with Maori consultants and all that.

Cliff Curtis, I see Cliff Curtis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a young Cliff Curtis. Yeah. He's got long hair. Yeah.

But like, well, right. I mean, this is about intrusion and they, you know, seem to mostly regard them with amusement. You know, like the white settlement, you know, like they're not really, I mean, there's a really great movie called Utu. You should check it out

about like British colonization of New Zealand that is worth seeing on that subject. Sorry, go ahead. Can I talk or you see on a quick side tangent that I swear is going to come back around to underlining a point of a thing that works in this movie and also Campion at large? Go ahead.

Thank you for the permission. I've been trying to catch up with the sort of middling Oscar adjacent movies of this season recently. Absolutely. And I watched George Clooney's the tender bar yeah which you and i were texting about we were like the tender bar you've seen it as well okay i put it i saddled up at the tender bar you talked dickens i i warmed up a stool okay and um you and i were texting about it and we both had sort of the same takeaway, I think this is fair to say, that it is by default the best movie he has made since Goodnight and Good Luck.

And also somehow the single most damning piece of evidence against his skill as a director. Because it is such a fucking t-ball layup that the fact that it does not succeed in even being a gentleman six is like astonishing why is this movie not fun absolutely yeah and you're like this should be like ben affleck is great in it and you want him to like you're sort of like you're sort of rooting for it because you're like this guy is playing a fun guy absolutely and he's doing a great job and this should be the most watchable shit in the world and as i said to david like if this movie was 20 better ben affleck would be winning the oscar in a cake walk like i i truly think if the movie surrounding him had any juice to it he's probably gonna get a

nom he probably is yeah he should have gotten the nom for the last but so absolutely yeah that's why i'm like if he gets the tender bar nom that's it's sort of for his two supporting performances leo and blood diamond or whatever yeah but i'm watching this movie and i'm going like how is he fucking this up what is not working here right and a thing that sort of jumped out to me is just like every single performance in this movie save for affleck maybe feels like a first take performance, right? I'm not implying that George Clooney is Clint Eastwood and does one take and is like, we're out of here, right? But when you talk about David, like, what does a director do? Like, what is it she's doing

to get these performances out of them, to have actors talk about her in these reverential terms, right? And so often it is hard to quantify what directing is. And I think often people in the general public who don't know that much about filmmaking just think about it as like visual style, which only jumps out to me that the visual style is very loud and unique, like you're Zack Snyder or some shit, right? Or are the performances good, right? Like they just think about directors working with actors. There's a thing my mother told me when I was young

that always stuck with me where she was like, the way you can tell a movie is well directed is if every performance in it is good. She was like, that doesn't happen by accident. There could be good performances

in a movie that was poorly directed and the actors kind of took over. But if every single person in a movie is good, like a movie like Spotlight where you're just like, every guy who shows up for four lines in that movie crushes it right um and watching tender bar it's just like even affleck who's pretty fucking in the pocket every scene feels

like clooney failed to find any other additional interesting layers he failed to find any way to throw it off the hump, put some weird energy in there to make some discovery. Everything feels like the most surface level reading of, well, that's what you would do in this scene.

That's how you play this character, right? And Campion, every single scene in all of her movies, I would say, or all the ones I've seen so far, at least, there's always just some odd thing happening there, you know? Like there's some odd energy some odd choice some odd moment you know where it just feels like she is never letting her scene play out in the

conventional obvious way even from how she's written it when she's often written weird screenplays and even just casting odd people so that they're throwing their their basic inherent existence is throwing in an odd energy sure and we talk about all this shit with like how are all these performances working in the same movie people have varying levels of stardom and different like reputations and all of that but it is that thing where she's able to get everyone on the same page and in every scene add some odd fucking some layers that make you lean in and go like what the fuck's going on here so if we can get horny for a second

let's get horny because this will also circle back to my pin and virgin of course your virgin pin the virgin pin is this the first Oscar winning movie with butt play in it okay but that's related to my virgin thing

do you think this was brought up in that New York Times magazine feature? That you keep fucking jamming in my side. I'm sorry. I just read it last night and I thought it was

really well written. Written by Esther Zuckerman. I didn't write it. Okay, sorry. What comes up? Well, do you think, I guess I hadn't thought about that because I thought

he must have fucked at some point. But like, do you think Sam Neill's character, Stuart, is a virgin? I don't thought about that because I thought he must have fucked at some point but like do you think Sam Neill's character Stuart is a virgin I don't know I mean because in that article they suggested that he was a virgin I was like he's so freaked out by

yeah well she goes right to the butt I mean she does go right to the butt which is a move I'm not objecting I'm just saying and he's like I don't know I mean there's certainly like right there's like he he's very afraid of any kind of like intimacy or tenderness right like not in a way i just want to grab her because he's yeah like he's got the sort of male brain alpha thing of like you're

mine you're my property but yes i mean not to like yeah to be essentially negotiating a dowry. It's like, look, she doesn't talk. She's obsessed with her fucking piano. She might be dumb. She has a kid who's like a whirling dervish. The kid's a lot. Do you want to take all that on board? And he's like, yeah, sure.

So maybe, yeah, maybe he's a bit of an awkward fella. Like if that's what he's... Right. He's like, sure, i'll take it it's fine the name because nessie is genevieve letman and the other one um the other sort of maid helper lady he keeps sort of like confiding in her and she's like it's fine she'll touch you eventually yeah yeah yeah it's uh so yeah maybe he is sexually inexperienced i guess yeah and she does go straight from the... Yeah, is this the only Oscar-winning movie?

The first. This is my counter to that. What are the later ones? I don't have an answer. Sure, neither do I. Does Midnight Cowboy have implied butt play? I can't remember. It might.

It might. Well, obviously, like, yeah. It might. He's like, you know. It might. Right, but it's not on screen so i guess that you know we don't know what fucking they do in gone with the wind maybe there's butt play in that too we don't know they off screen doesn't count sure on screen sure um but anyway no i just sort of

wanted to say that it's something i said it to esther the other day yeah i know you've been thinking about it a lot um i think this movie we've talked about this on other episodes how like ben is just making the funniest faces right now it's really good yeah but play do you like this movie by the way i haven't gotten a piano take from you yet do i like this movie like how did you feel about the piano because you loved sweetie so much i did love sweetie sweetie seems like a very bad movie it's sort of chaos yeah yeah and dirty it's real dirty hell yeah and also been physically dated more than a couple sweeties and it's been a bit of a sweetie right he's been sweet he's been sweet and he's

sweet i can absolutely do the move on the chair i won't do it here because there's not enough space, but trust that's happened. But this movie, were you more perplexed by it? No, it made me feel a lot. Yeah? Our finest film. You find this film what? I said our finest film credit,

but it's not straightforward. This is the thing. And that's why i broached this with you as i was like this film is really hard to describe to this day yes and i think i've said this on some other podcasts but it must have been i remember at the time it's like schindler's list what's that about the holocaust well the guy who saved lives by you know you know putting him you know but right like okay sure the piano what's it about so she like is married to someone she's got a piano and she's gonna trade the keys for sexual favors to this other guy you know like it's just hard to describe the piano it's about a woman's

well it's about a woman so it's about the sky it's about the sky but that's uh it's a little bit about the sea but that's that's why i keep on in my brain going like this has to be adapted from some indecipherable novel like it feels like this movie is her taking on some novel people go like think about like her work and like it feels similar to power of the dog which obviously we've had is based on a novel. Right. Which is based on an awful lot. And the novel is semi-biographical. Like there's like two layers.

But you had to sort of like describe. Like I feel like writing this year, I've had to describe the Power of the Dog a lot. And it's like. Very difficult. Well, it's about a macho cowboy who makes life hell for a woman. And also his psychosexual relationship with like her son and it's just like it's also

describe it that way you're loading people with the wrong expectations right exactly it's sort of it's so like to boil it down to like you know when you have to write like a you know a here's what to look forward at the movies to this weekend thing it's like very hard sweetie is the same way like you could describe sweetie and make it sound like you me and Dupree and then someone watching like what the movies to this weekend thing. It's like very hard. But Sweetie's the same way. Like you could describe Sweetie

and make it sound like you, me, and Dupree and then someone watching would be like, what the fuck is this thing? Yeah. This is what I was going to say. I know I have a tendency to read Roger Ebert quotes on this podcast, but it's just like fucking...

He often could turn a phrase. And I just think sometimes he has a way of just cutting through to the heart of something so cleanly. Yeah. But this is the line from his review that really jumped out to me. Because almost any time we cover a movie on this show, I look to see Roger Ebert's review. He wrote, the piano is as peculiar and haunting as any film I've seen.

It is one of those rare movies that is not just about a story or some characters but about a whole universe of feeling thank you roger very similar to ben's take yeah it's a lot of feelings like and much like like you're saying about power of the dog you're like okay she's right i get it she's here against her will in a way she doesn't really want to be married to this guy she wants her piano that's when she's happy playing her damn michael nyman she's playing her you know her ditties on the piano sure and then it's like but then like would you see like the whole thing of like harvey kytel being like give me the piano coming and then like no i'll trade you describing kytel's character yeah it's also very hard it's like fascinating and hard to decipher

those motivations in those moments and like the tension between them because it's like he has he becomes he takes them down to the beach watches her play the piano becomes sort of consumed and fascinated by it he decides to bring it up he

knows he like has this sort of plan and it at one point like there is a way to there there would have been a way to sort of like make this movie where it's like this guy's a super fucking creep that's the thing you think that's what it's gonna be of course and he's like you play the piano while i like do stuff and you're like the fact that he says do stuff that i enjoy i think yeah but also just even his introduction, sorry, is like, wait, is Harvey Cattell playing a Maori tribesman? And you're like, no, he's like an expat who's gotten very obsessed with their culture.

Yeah. Correct. Like his whole existence is confusing. Who has a wife. Yes. Who has a wife in a hole. Well, she lives in England in a hole. In a hole.

Right. And he's got a picture of her in his wallet. She's a model. But yeah, he's got a picture of her in his wallet she's a model but yeah he's he's sort of well i mean again not to keep comparing it but i do think they're really parallel works with power of the dog like they're really really parallel works it is the phil burbank thing of like this guy in phil burbank like this guy is literally like was a yale classics major and has assumed this like role of the cowboy and it's sort of the same thing this is a guy from

england who has assumed this role right as as uh maori essentially like a man of the woods like a man of nature all that yeah and it's but their first interactions are so because it is like i mean all of her work has this like is very feminist has this but it's this like it's this tension of he there is this negotiation she agrees to the negotiation he's gonna trade her keys she talks him down to black she has that agency in the negotiation she has an agency in the negotiation pretty quickly he's like forget it you're not even into it like like it's a thing you think but it's this moment where you're sort of like how into this is like okay i i mentioned this to david when we were just like texting about

the movie but like when he lies under the piano and asks her to lift her skirt and it is sort of you know there is this forcefulness to it there's this sort of there's this it's very uncomfortable and then he started wonder how could they pee in these things well yeah i i do wonder but um and he starts fingering i'm sorry that i used my finger in like this conversation and ben turn that up on mic um fingering this hole in her stockings yeah and it is so erotic and you sort of can tell she's not resisting it but there's this but obviously she doesn't say anything because she doesn't speak sure so it's this whole sort of this dynamic that is very hard to untangle. And you're, and you're sort of befuddled in it, but also it's,

as I said, it's very erotic. It's like it, it, it, you understand how she is sort of being turned on by this thing and she doesn't go. And like,

as it progresses, there's something about her that's resistant, but she's also not going unwillingly. Well, what I find fascinating is thinking about two great, I will say great, capital G, great movies that we have covered on this podcast in the past. Happy Feet and Happy Feet 2. Yes. Movies that are also about the power dynamics of sex.

Right. Happy Feet and Happy Feet 2. You have to sing your heart song. I'll trade you piano keys for hearts um the uh no uh less caution and l are two movies i was thinking about that also have like these very complicated sexual power dynamics where you're like is this manipulative is this it has a cross where where is it fantasy right being indulged and where is it actual domination? Has it actually become love or is it sort of like a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing

or whatever it is, right? And Elle is a movie where like, she kind of cannot figure out. Right, he's into it and instigating it, but also like, the unpredictability, the loss of power is part of what she's doing. Right, and spoiler, he does truly turn out to be an awful villainous person who gets his comeuppance.

Sure. It's France. Everything's different. Less caution. It's sort of tragic for her, but it's a whole thing in that movie where it's like, this is a relationship, a transactional relationship. There's something she's trying to gain from these sexual trysts, but at some point the emotions

get tied up in the thing. Is she actually in love with him? Is it just because of the amount of time they spend together? You know, whatever it is. This is a movie where you kind of expect that's what this dynamic is going to be. It is not the movie where you expect they actually end up together at the end and it's kind of a happy ending.

You're not like, fuck, it's weird, it's twisted. You're like, good. I mean, it's not a fully happy ending. She she keeps come because the last line of the movie is her reflecting on the watery grave that she could have had if her will had not like brought her up which was campion's original plan her original script right take her down and then campion was like no i think she should like but it's also but it does end up very romantic. Like it makes this turn where she realizes that this is what she wants. And it doesn't feel like it's just wires getting crossed. Can we also talk about the fact that like their first full sex scene is almost entirely filmed from the perspective of Sam Neill,

like spying under the floorboards, under the floorboards. Pointing at Ben. He's peeping. He is peeping under the floor words um yes well he's in a ditch but like this peeping you know the whole mystery of her character right is like she doesn't even know why

she doesn't talk starts out in the porch she had a relationship with a piano classic with a piano teacher shut up right like who like there's this there's this intimation that the relationship with the piano teacher that she had is was how well it's probably how anna paquin well she talks about anna paquin says tell me the story of my father and she there's the weird cartoon and all that yeah but um but uh but like that was a someone maybe getting close to cracking the

mystery of this person and then whatever giving up or fleeing or right like you know it not working out so that's part of what's going on at the end there right like at least this he he like that's the tension that you're like he has to be aggressive or coercive in a strange sort of way to like start chipping away at her shell what well he's non-verbal like i think that's the right he he can express himself like her he can't read as he says like that's not his thing yeah he reacts to her playing them yeah that's not my thing i think he says it's not my bag baby uh he reacts to her playing the music because that is a sort of a nonverbal way of like she's expressing herself and like he

obviously Sam Neill obviously a learned guy or whatever he has no concept like he's watching her play the piano he's like how am I going to get this fucking piano up a hill like he's not like oh she seems like different when she's doing this you know what I mean like he's not

recognizing that he literally thinks he literally thinks she there's that moment where he asks um i should find this character's name um his sort of like companion the not nessie because nessie is jen and viva lemon but the other woman um who he she he asks her she before they get the piano up they make the piano off the table and right and flora is singing scales and singing a song where he's like where and he's like this is a red flag yeah well he's playing a table yeah she's playing a table like is she like like is she not like mentally and i love it like their follow-up question is well was any sound coming out of it he's like no no sound she's straight up just playing the table they're like it wasn't a musical table they do ask that follow-up question they're like but clearly

there must have been some sort of organ component to the table and it's like and he he's just like the only way he can the only way he can sort of understand that the idea of this woman is that like she must just like be fucked up like you know but he doesn't want to try and understand yeah but he thinks she must be sort of mentally disabled right i i mean it's one of the things

that is interesting and savvy about casting holly hunter and that firecracker uh spark plug element that we talked about makes her an unconventional choice for this role is that like so much of the dynamic is mute woman he's like yeah i'm fine with that kid i'm fine with that and the subtext seems to be yeah she'll be like subservient she'll be like grateful this is like an unwanted she'll run my house she's like damaged goods and it's like that's that's he's in new zealand and pioneer

and then they're like she might be dumb and he's like not a total in New Zealand, in Pioneer. And then they're like, she might be dumb, and he's like, not a total turnoff. The turnoff for him is that she seems to have her own agency, this anger. She wants the fucking piano. Right. That's where he's like, you should be totally fucking indebted to me. And it also is where the Holly Hunter persona starts to come out,

is that even though she's not speaking, there's something, yeah, she's angrily writing her notes. There's the H.I. McDonough thing where it's like, I'm going to fucking, we got gotta kidnap a baby yeah it's obviously also you know she said this movie is very inspired by bronte by wuthering heights in particular you know and and and the sort of blue beard right well well that is in literally in yeah right the movie um but like baines is a sort of heath cliff you know he's the the the wild you know heaines is a sort of Heathcliff. He's the wild... Yeah, he's the wild man of the Moors, but not the Moors.

Whatever they have in New Zealand. I think it's like the jungle almost. It's like a rainforest almost. It's crazy, the environment, because it's so damp. It's muddy. Yeah. It's very cool. We haven't had many

opportunities to talk sort of swampy terrain on this show. I'm curious where you stand on it. I think in the particular kind of clothes they're wearing, it makes it so absurd. Just that people would carry on living like they were back in wee-o-ing. Wee old England. No, no, it's true. And you're like in a rainforest. Right, let me tromp in there.

You're wearing this absurd dress. Right, like the mud is like knee high. Well, there's that amazing shot too of them trying to walk around and she grabs like another piece of wood to sort of like throw out on the mud and for her and Flora and they like try to walk and then they just walk out of the piece of wood and sort of like throw out on the mud and for her and flora and they like try to

walk and then they just walk out of the piece of wood and just like sink yes it's not they don't belong and they're trying to civilize the land in this way that is like completely perverse and i think that's samuel's character kind of they're kind of like what are you guys doing this is insane what is this and like yes that's why you fucking guys doing? What are you guys doing? This is insane. What is this shit? And like, yes, that's why, you know, this movie is not really about like the rape of a country that like, you know, that England carried out. There are other movies that are, you know, explicitly about that. Yeah, Jennifer Kent's movie.

Oh, The Nightingale, which I love. That was a good movie recently. That's true. I'm not Australia, not New Zealand, but very similar. But New Zealand is very specific. Not for the faint of heart heart but it's one of those things where it's like if you're gonna make the movie that's about that that movie is as

unpleasant to watch as the Nightingale if Jane Campion I'm not excusing it but if Jane Campion was addressing all of that more explicitly in this film it would overpower everything else she's trying to say because Nightingale is a movie that is totally consumed by the sort of horrific uh yeah anyway um but uh it's um yeah it's right just that and that's why

sam neill's character is pathetic in like in many ways right like it's like what he's trying to do he's like trying to make a mark on the land in a way that just feels like pointless yeah and then there's that whole there is that argument about the land and they're like he's like why do they why do they want it like what who like what do they want with this land like what is it even like what even gives them claim to it right um i love that moment too where kytel offers the land and he's like but it's like some swampy shit right it's like marsh shit what are we talking here i mean it's but like this all testifies to like samuel's in it impotence yeah you know right and then you

know she's off with fucking baines and he you know he also kind of lacks status yeah that he ended up there right and now has found himself having kind of a little bit of money but still he is so weak and impish does that make sense as a read you know like because there's the whole colonial sort of era to this movie and then you know her character too and we've sort of touched on this but it's just like she has so much power and yet lives in a time where women don't really have any power no but but she is which adds to the confusion of the piano is ultimately what she wants. But then, but then Keitel and her relationship and that whole dynamic.

I mean, it's so nuanced. One thing I want to, um, this is from the dossier. Um, we talked about on the angel at my table. So I had that,

that's such a colorful movie. Right. And she wants to emphasize how like bright and green New Zealand is. And sweetie looks like a pig in the city. Right. But this movie, it's very dark dark because she was like back then you know before essentially the like arriving uh english settlers like burned the trees down because new zealand was this like bush that was dark because it was so much forest that like there was no light penetrating so she wanted this movie to be much more claustrophobic right like when

when you're in uh you know off the beach right anywhere but dark right yeah it's like you know you can't fucking it's so inhospitable to what as you say like to what they're doing it's not inhospitable to people but it's inhospitable to people in nice dresses he takes his top hat off and combs his hair and puts his dumb hat back on over it. He's obsessed with the hair combing. When they're like, finally, you've dropped that shit.

You're wasting that time with the fucking dapper Dan. Yeah. It is, I mean, look, there are larger things. The cruelty is more the point, but it does sort of underline the absurdity of colonization where it's

like why are you trying to change this land and these people to fit into your nor who gives a shit why what do you why are you insisting they adapt to you anyway um i i hate that i'm gonna say this oh my god what a horrible way to start a sentence. Especially on a Jane Campion episode of all things. Mark is dancing, he can cut it. But the thought entered my head and I now just need to verbalize it. I hate... Harvey Keitel would have been a good Wolverine. Oh.

I was just thinking about his little squat body. Yeah. Yeah. Can we talk about the sex scenes? Yeah. They're hot. They're? Yeah. They're hot. They're so hot. She directs incredibly hot sex

scenes because they are about two people fucking. Not one person fucking another person. They're awkward. She captures these moments that usually are not caught in sex scenes. Kytel57. He's Wolverine sized. Just FYI. And that dick is probably

7.5? No. With his little claw. I don't know. This is a I think a thing that she captures in sex scenes that you rarely see because sex scenes are usually so choreographed

in movies and so deliberately shot in terms of the angles. You're not seeing full bodies in that kind of way, you know, is like, she captures the weird, silent negotiation of positions. You know? Like she captures those moments like after sex

or how you transition into having sex or when you change positions that no one puts in movies. There's this moment when... Please, Esther. Do it. Just do it. Go off.

He grabs her butt in a way. This is too hot for blank check. Take it out. Absolutely. Cut it out, man. No, no, no. Also, Esther's banned from the show where we're moving her previous episodes.

That's not what I meant. It's just like it is in their first big sexy not when they're like you know not when they're just sort of sharing the bed but like the way he sort of moves her they they he moves her in such a way where you could sort of you see the flesh of her butt sort of move under his hand in a way that is very tactile and very sexy and natural like yeah i mean i don't know how right like rather than what you're saying which obviously like shooting a sex scene is very complicated i'm not saying that like everyone's fucking up you know like it's hard like you know like yeah their actors will be like look i want to do this and not this you have to choreograph

it that way right you know like i will only Y, you know, and that's fine. Of course. But Holly Hunter is very much like, who gives a shit? We have five senses, baby. Like, that was her quote. It's really good. I'll find it. Five senses, baby.

I mean, here's another thing I'll say. I'm going to go off here. Another thing that is captured in this movie that I also feel like is captured in some of her other sex scenes I've seen is like, and it's sort of to your point what you're talking about with with the butt esther yeah but the way like your body changes as you move i feel like so often sex scenes when you see nudity in films your sense of what someone's body parts look like are very much based on the composition of that frame and like the first time they lie naked together it's such like a long unbroken shot where you're like oh right the physics of her body change depending on her positioning and the speed at which she's moving yeah which is stuff that like

sort of unconsciously registers in your brain of like oh i'm watching two actual people having some sexual encounter rather than the sort of like choreographed, stylized, Skinamax style representation of. Yeah. I mean, it's like she's obviously not filming actual sex. But there's a way that like even when. Do it, do it, do it. Do it. Even when he's sort of like. He's sort of about to put it in sure he's she's not filming actual sex but you see the awkward movement this is the i mean yes like of how that

works but that's her obsession she's like it's people being naked is so awkward people pooping and peeing is so awkward and she but i mean not only that she both celebrates it and finds it funny which is why jane campion is good at it and other people are maybe not like or what or would not broach those topics but yes obviously when you're a teenager and you have not had sex yet and you watch a sex scene you're like yeah but what you know like there's sort of specific specific physics that you don't quite understand they They're just not captured. And they are awkward and not cinematic. Yes. Or whatever. They are not traditionally cinematic.

I mean, my favorite sex scene of all time remains Margaret. The Kieran Culkin scene. The Kieran Culkin scene. That scene is very, very visceral. That's the first time I've seen a movie captured that. And it's specifically like Lost in Virginia Teenagers But it's like the weird negotiating Of like what do you want to do next

That makes me uncomfortable We put a pin in virgins I already brought it It's whether or not Sam Neill's character Is he a virgin We can unpin our virgin sacrifice From the wall I've never signed a nudity clause in my life.

And whenever I've done nudity, I felt it was right. I mean, we've got five senses. Was this Holly Hunter? I thought this was David speaking. Yeah, yeah. At first I was like, you have never signed a nudity clause. I thought he was like, I've never signed a nudity clause in my life. But I would imagine the actors on this film.

They have dropped nudes. Weirdly, Griffin gave me that contract when we started the show. I do it every episode. I just demanded it. I was like, all right. I just love this quote from her, though. Whenever I've done nud show. I do it every episode. I was like, alright. I just love this quote from her though. Whenever I've done nudity, I felt it was right. I mean, we've got five senses and sex employs

all of them. So if you're expressing something about what it means to be alive in the world, how can you subtract sex from that? That's just Holly Hunter talking off the cuff. That's Hunter talking? Yeah. Fuck. That's what I'm saying because she's been naked in plenty of... She clearly is just sort of like, talking? Yeah. Fuck. That's what I'm saying because she's been naked in plenty of, like she clearly is just sort of like,

what? Yeah, Incredibles 2. That's why Anthony went off, right? All right. Wait, I was going to,

what was I going to say? That's on him. Don't uck me. Uck him. Okay. I want to say something. This has nothing to do with sex,

but I do, this is in the dossier and it is fascinating. This film was entirely financed by a French company called CB2000. Oh, right. It's a weird company name when it shows up. And it has an odd title

where it's like, I don't know. I'm sorry. No, but I mean, it's just like she gets the money. Nine million dollars is the budget of this movie. It's not nothing from 1993. And like, I guess partly just that she's such a canned darling and partly whatever the you know like she gets the money but this but she hasn't had a commercial break it's like what

can darling j-dog huh con um con con but uh it was like a rival to studio canal which is obviously like the french dominance but in the 90, it only existed for eight years. They funded The Piano, Underground, Taste of Cherry, and Secrets and Lies. So four Palme d'Or winners. Twin Peaks Firewalk with me, Lost Highway and The Straight Story they worked on. Two Almodovar movies.

They did The Glass Shield, the Charles Burnett movie. Two Best Picture nominees. They did Kansas City, the Altman movie. It's one of those weird little booms that no one would remember unless you dug into it. Where it's like, where was the money coming from? Because that's the thing with the piano. It was released in America by Miramax, I'm pretty sure. But who the fuck was putting up the money for this?

It's just sort of for everything we've been talking about. Weird non-pitch, explicit nudity, Keitel dick. You know, like this is just like, you know, like this weird little boomlet in the 90s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is really the first time that like Campion sort of makes a mark on like a mainstream level. Oh, 100%. She is a cult. She's a local hero and a film festival phenomenon we had dana stevens on for angel on my table and she said like i absolutely saw

that and piano in theaters dana i think was an exceptionally hip like people who in you know big cities are going to the art house theater to see the new film. But yeah, absolutely. She would have been a fucking drive-my-car guy. This is out of nowhere the piano. And it is just for the fans, her guarantor

for a blank check career in Hollywood that is very challenging. She makes very challenging Hollywood movies for another thing about that movie being an odd pitch at this budget right holly hunter's career at this point we're talking about how out of like line this is with what she had established at that point in her career the other thing is post-broadcast news which is obviously a hit spielberg's like she's the lead of my next film i think everyone thought she was going to be this like

blockbuster sort of like adult romantic comedy drama actress and her run of movies in between broadcast news and this are not big hits right so it's not like she was like a fallen star no but she also isn't coming into this like a list holly hunter's money in the bank anything she wants to make kaitel is probably probably more of a name. Right. And Sam Neill has not had his breakout. I mean, well, he was Damien. Sure.

But Sigourney, you could imagine getting this movie made. If she wanted to do this, $9 million are set. You're good. You're off. Definitely. No problem. This movie coming together is odd. Connecting this hard is odd. The fact that it broke out of sort of like together is uh it connecting this hard is uh the

fact that it broke out of sort of like can you imagine i think we were talking about this david like can you imagine people in 93 and like obviously we can't we could probably talk to some right now if we called them up but like going to think that they're seeing this sort of stayed period piece. And then there's fucking butt play. Well, this is the thing. And we do like Merchant Ivory movies. Language.

Anyway, but yeah, no, but right. Cause like, this is a boom time. Yeah. The Merchant Ivory type movie,

the Howard's ends, the remains of the days. And that's absolutely a moneymaker. Yes. But those movies are not, you know, tit heavy. Or dick heavy. tit heavy or dick heavy

they're not dick heavy Maurice shout out to Maurice oh my god who was in Sherlock later and he's that you know Rupert Wyatt no that's not Rupert

Rupert Graves sorry there's a lot of Ruperts it's the director i know there's a lot of rupert does he show dick rupert why yeah i'm pretty sure you see rupert graves is dick and marie's yeah i think you do um but not not you not you i know he knew he was destined for fame what ben well we're at two and a half no but we're over two hours i know we're we're we're so go ahead and i know that was it i just want to say the poster for this film right the classic poster that we know i feel like is sort of the the stark image of the piano on the beach which feels like a poster if you're making your like fucking rochelle rochelle parody of art house movie in a comedy it

would be like this poster right but then there is also this poster sure that is i feel like a fairly was also used which is just like more familiar so much happier that's what i'm saying it's funny that they're trying to sell it on like holly and harvey like to describe this poster it's like smiling and he's kissing her she's smiling he's kissing her it's got a you know winner best film can film festival over it harvey was the fucking looks like fucking shock a lot basically harvey was the king of this whatever difficult fucking movie he's gonna squeeze it he somehow made it look like a gentle romance or a comedy he takes the play-doh he's gonna push it through the the star shape there's like the famous my left foot poster where it's daniel day lewis's like headshot and he's got long hair looking like a fucking snack smiling yeah yeah

you know like clean shaven look at like look how different is this poster honestly i'm showing harvey would i mean this poster is heavier on chocolate, obviously. Sure. Harvey would have said, Chocolat, he must have been so relieved where he's like, finally, the poster's there. I can just, it actually is representing the way I try to make these movies seem to be. Right. Should we wrap up the plot? Yes. Because I think we kind of are more or less-

Did we talk about the plot? I don't know. Well, you know. I mean, I think we talked about sex scenes. The keys, yeah. We talked about butt play. So maybe around there. This movie is two hours long.

It goes by really fast. I don't know if you guys felt that way. I also feel like if this movie was made today, when I queued it up, I was like, is this movie like 245 and I'm forgetting? No, it's two hours. It's like in and out. Not only is it two hours,

seriously, there was some moment where I checked the running time and I was like, wait, I'm almost done?, it's two hours. And you're like in and out. Not only is it two hours though, like I seriously, there was some moment where I checked the running time and I was like, wait, I'm almost done? Like this has just been moving. Which is weird because there isn't a lot of plot really. And there aren't a lot of locations.

There's not a lot of movement. You know what I mean? Like so it is funny that it's so gripping and fast in a way. Sorry, go ahead, Esther. What were you going to say? I wasn't going to say anything.

Fine. Well, you know what? I guess I'll go fuck myself. uh i don't uh no no i'm trying to think of like plot stuff we haven't we haven't we sort of haven't covered like flora well we haven't covered really like the climax sort of the like he basically what happens is like they start this affair sam neill finds sam neill it's initially a coercive affair that immediately kind of becomes a romance a romance an illicit romance sees this like is hiding under the season tries to sort of put a like there's a two what pack one season two everyone's watching everyone sees it there's not a lot going on what else are you gonna fucking do

the hottest people are lying up outside the tickets booth trying to watch the eventually tries to literally lock her in his house yes um and she there is this moment where she sort of considers like which leads to the butt play she sort of considers this man and could i have this intimate relationship with him she doesn't let him touch her but she touches him and she moves her hand around in his hand and it's he's not reciprocating it at all he's so tense he's so upset and he's repressed i think and he's already attacked her at this point of where you're describing he's already he's already sort of attacked her he has not yet but he has not yet chopped her finger off what happens is like he well she's actually like attack yes he he he

attacks her in the sort of woods like grabs her those have dare i say it the kind of incel energy where it's like why don't you like me well he's sort of well and i think what am i doing wrong in the woods is sort of like well you're into baines who's this like sort of macho man like why aren't you into sort of my like display of machismo there's this sort of like i'm doing everything right yeah why do you like him and not me and then she takes one of the keys off she writes a note to baines she tells flora to go give the key give the key to baines even though so romantic yeah oh even though baines can't read come on is that one of the more romantic romantic gestures you do think about it that baines can't read so like he just is to infer that this is a fucking

you're right maybe he can read a little bit i don't know i don't know she wrote a pretty simple note on the thing she should have my heart. But she should have done like a pictogram of just like a penis and vagina and a heart in between or something. Flora wants to refuse to go because Flora is also sort of like adopted. Because I think with Flora she finds this like

she finds this element of power in being able to tattle on her mom and this relationship to it. And she's been like chained to her mother in this weird way. Like it's a very damaging relationship in a lot of ways, even though they're also kind of symbiotic

and fascinating together. And she brings the key straight to Sam Neill who then chops her finger off. Chops her finger off. I think initially Campion, it was going to be even, maybe he was going to, he was going to like mutilate her more and some, like, I don't know. There was like, that was going to be even, maybe he was going to, he was going to like mutilate her more.

And so like, I don't know, there was like, that was going to be a very intense sequence. And they settled on it. Well, I mean, and also like. And the splatter of blood on Paquin. Right. There's like an Evil Dead 2 style shot of just like. The, you know, poetic, you know,

all she wants is to play the piano, like the loss of, right. Like, you know, he's, he's, he knows how to do the damage in the way of right like you know he's he's he knows how to do the damage in the way like yeah yeah it's tough and neil is scary in that scene yeah like that switch and he goes really goes i mean look neil is great at being scary it is all the more surprising that he was chosen for jurassic park and that he works so well at the beginning of jurassic park sure threatening children with yes the fact that he's able to warm up that much yeah is surprising um because he hadn't really

shown that in his career up until that point in time um uh we we haven't touched on the sort of supernatural element of this movie which is sort of for much of the film played as sort of just like anna paquin's childlike interpretation of certain things there's the story where you have that one weird shot of animation yeah about uh the the lightning striking yeah i love that right that being the cause of munis but there's a thing also where uh sam neill goes kind of mental uh believing he's heard her voice in his head and he goes to kaitel and kytel thinks he's trying to start shit and he's like no i just genuinely need to know does she whisper to you because i heard her voice and i looked at her lips and they weren't moving i don't know what the fuck is going on but

i i love that because and then but that's also the key to samuel just being like just get out of here just this is like just both of you get out he's so obsessed with her mutinous and and with her not wanting you know like her force fields like her not wanting him in any way that yes he's gonna start just hearing her sure like or whatever like that's how i've always but it is also this moment of like he has have you ever heard her and beans lies to him because he she does whisper to him in bed she whispers something to him of course and then he says i heard her she didn't speak and it was like and it was about her will and it's about i was afraid what my will would lead.

She's crossing some sort of psychic barrier because she needs to escape. And you do sort of, by the end narration about will, you are sort of led to believe something got through to him, you know? But am I misremembering that there's a thing about another person having heard her voice at some point? That actually, well, the piano teacher thought that he could hear her in his head as well. You're also thinking about the fact that Baines keeps remembering being in this water tank and having adamantium injected into him.

And this guy is like, don't worry, Logan, you're going to be be just fine i'm a southerner i'm like who's our current harvey kytel like that's how you solve for current day wolverine um or just cast old man kytel yeah just do it i was like we're going into a different direction we know hugh jackman owned this role for 20 plus years but don't worry we've got a great successor 70 something Harvey Keitel he had one contractual stipulation he's 82 years old he's old

had to show dick he's demanded that he shows one more thing about the piano too and the fantasy element is this sort of stick on this check you mean the physical piano no no no I wasn't talking about the i was talking about the movie the piano okay the banana because phil burbank does call it the

banana and the power of the dog the banana um he is that some of that fantasy too what you were talking about earlier is flora is like flora has invent invents all these stories. Right. Also creates the sort of mystery around her mom. She invents stories about who her father was, about how her mom went mute. Her way of she mystifies her mother to the public almost more than her mother does. Right. It's not real sign language either. Really? No, it's no.

It's some kind of hybrid. Right. There's no way they ever learned like, you either, really. No. It's some kind of hybrid. Well, because they're right. There's no way they ever learned like, you know, like. Yeah. Because it was not invented. Right. They just have their own means of communicating. But I think she's elaborating a lot.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because like she'll only do a couple of movements and then it's like this whole thing. Yeah. It is. But that is like so out of like a victorian novel that that that weird dynamic it's so good but we have to talk about like the like briefly talk about the the very end just the the not the very end actually the the piano the overboard yeah

this is the thing when you read the banana the banana that like i mean look jane campion is quick quick quick quick when she is sitting in the mud in the rain after losing a finger i'm i was like devastated yes she is like very very powerful it's such a powerful moment with an actor man i love when things cut through to ben this much when you can see like there's a look in ben's eye right now of just kind of how how hard this hit this is like one of the great works like you know this movie um no no i oh yeah ben possibly yes one of the great works up there with i think campion probably sells herself short or has a sort of self-deprecating way of talking about this sometimes because like obviously she had this movie in her head in some way for so long but then when you ask her about the ending she's like yeah we didn't really know what we were gonna do and then i think it was uh let me wait jan chapman

the producer who's sort of like she still works with her right didn't you meet jan chapman or no i meant um tanya right that's i guess that's it but jan chapman who did the piano who produced this movie was the one who suggested, well, what if the piano goes overboard and takes her with it? That was apparently something they got to fairly late. That obvious sort of poetic, that she's still tied to this object

that is going to kill her and then her will triumphs, like you said, Esther. Yes. But their original plan was to have her and then her will triumphs like you said esther yes um um but their original plan was to have her die like have her you know at this low moment you know very very romance novel gonna be claimed by the sea you know i think it would have just felt punishing yeah right it's not it doesn't feel like they like like they went with a happy ending of uplift i think it would have felt artificially last thing she wrote oppressive like performatively dark to just have her die on top of everything

because it's also because it is about like there's her dialogue about choosing to live and her will is it's not uplifting it's this moment like in that moment i chose it yeah in another moment it so leaves the opportunity that like in another moment maybe she wouldn't have chosen it but she has agency yeah but she's right and the fact that she you know she is constantly brought back to that moment. She talks about, that is the true last line of the movie is she can't get over this image of not just her piano at the bottom of the seat, but her body floating over the piano.

Griff's just got a pic of Anna with her Oscar. Anna doing like the red carpet, turn and repeat, repeat whatever after backstage after you win it but the look on her face is still like just like Jesus fucking Christ they gave me an Oscar sorry I just pulled it up while I was checking a thing

well wait Esther did you finish your point sorry I believe I did okay good I mean look we could bring this up in other episodes but I want to say it now while i'm uh that's nice yeah the three the three amigas it's so wild that in the year of total schindler dominance like that that was obviously the big narrative of that year spielberg finally wins his oscar these three like amazing women also win for this also incredibly esoteric

the year that tom hanks becomes elected president of hollywood and fucking jurassic park has you know deep has become number one movie of all time technical shit like that's such a seismic year at the academy awards where you're like this is minting the miramax like dominance of the 90s it's the final like victory lap for spielberg yeah it's it's the anointment of Hanks. It's wild. It's wild. You have someone almost break the record for youngest winner ever.

A person I just want to shout out quickly. We could shout her out in later episodes, but I'm thinking of it now and I don't want to just pin it for later and then forget about it. Janet Peterson, who functioned as both costume designer and production designer. I almost in my head is that the great Janet Peterson, who functioned as both costume designer and production designer.

I almost in my head is that the great Janet Peterson. Janet Patterson. I'm sorry. Patterson. I said it wrong. I said it wrong. But she was a production designer on Two Friends, Portrait of a Lady, Holy Smoke, Bright Star and costume designer on Two Friends, Piano, Portrait of a Lady, Holy Smoke, Bright Star and costume designer on Two Friends, Piano, Portrait of a Lady Holy Smoke, Bright Star

She also did costumes on Far From the Madden Crowd PJ Hogan, Peter Pan Oscar and Lucinda and a couple other TV movies She has very few credits overall She died in 2016 uh she had four oscar nominations three of which were for jane campion movies she rarely worked outside of campion and uh her indb just says uh uh she's a specialist in period cost in the 19th century all four of her oscar nominated

films are of that era a noted recluse who rarely does interviews or attends awards ceremonies between jobs she returns to quiet home life from her family i just think it's a fascinating career she's yeah absolutely uh can we you know just if we're talking about crew though can we also talk about how this was shot by the guy who fucking shot black hat yeah stewart dryberg who has a very varied filmography. Absolutely. Rules. But like wildly different looking films. Who fucking shot like Eon Flux, but also like Bridget Jones's Diary. And then of course we have to mention freaking Michael Nyman.

He made the music. He made the piano music. You know, like I remember when we talked to Dana, you know, she was like, I never liked the pianos much because I found the score so dominating. Which, you know, obviously the score is like, the funniest thing about it is he was like

best known as like the Peter Greenway guy. Sure. He'd worked on Peter Greenway and she comes to him being like, I want you to write this music that's going to express her feelings, right? Like, you know, this is going to be so crucial to the emotions of the movie and I think

you're perfect for it. And then apparently there was a slight pause and she says i don't want any of that greenway shit so like it's because it's like you're hiring this guy but you to not do what he's famous for it's so crazy and he's like and it changed my career because then i have this other career doing much more like baroque music and like people thought i had sold out in my like weird minimal music you know community like you know they thought like what's he doing anyway um i don't know if i've just been dana pilled but especially the first like 30 or 40 minutes of the movie i was thinking like i kind of agree

with her the score is a little oppressive once she starts playing the piano again and a lot of the music becomes more diegetic it worked for me but the first 30 40 minutes it feels like they maybe go a little too hard if i can throw it yeah go ahead criticism i have the movie no that's it can i just throw out some some disparate things that driesberg shot sure just like how fucking weird his career is yeah so he obviously he does angel at my table he does this he does uh portrait of a lady right he does uh lone star in between uh he shoots the pilot for Sex and the City. He establishes that look that essentially transforms the next 25 years of New York City, where New York's like, fuck, we got to look more like this show.

Every block has to look like Sex and the City now, right? Analyze this. Runaway Bride, Bridget Jones's Diary, Kate and Leopold. Post-Sex and the City, he just does the run of all this fucking romanticized city, you know, stylish people. Aeon Flux, The Painted Veil, No Reservations, NIMS Island, Amelia. He does the Boardwalk Empire pilot, which is the like, oh, this is now what like prestige TV shows look like the scale. He does the pilot for Luck, probably the pilot

with the most horse deaths on set, I think. Secret Life of Walter Mitty, then Black Hat, Alice Through the Looking Glass, The Great Wall, Gifted, The Only Living Boy in New York, The Upside, Ben Is Back, Men in Black International. That's a fucking weird career.

Yeah, he's a cool guy. I don't know what to tell you. I love him. We should play the box office game, but we'll maybe do some final thoughts. Let's play the box office game. Ben's been very responsible this episode. I am being responsible. You're a good boy, Ben.

Hey, thanks. I love getting a good boy shout out. You are a good boy. You're the best boy. One little last moment i'd love to spotlight is uh the play yeah the shadow figures yes it's so good like where i was like i would be entertained by this like now they should put this up at st ann's warehouse seriously like axe thing i kept being like is he about to like chop his chopper hands off

yeah i kept being which i guess also the heads through the the the sheets with the blood it's inventive like it really it like it was uh it was so well done keep it entertaining and a really fucking funny moment is then when the ma think it's real. And they intervene and they shut down the production. Very funny. Why would you fake this? You lunatics? Right.

The box office game for this movie came out November 19th, 1993. It had obviously debuted at Cannes, where it won the Palme d'Or in a tie with Farewell My Concubine. Right. She becomes the first woman.

She's the first woman to win the Palme d'Or. The second woman to win the Palme d'Or? Fucking to 10. You're forgetting. You're forgetting. Who am I forgetting? That Lea Seydoux and Adele. Oh, they were like technically part of the win all three of them

won that was like the whole thing where spielberg was like so there are four women who have won the palm door and it's two actresses right to car now and camping okay steve anyway um i mean in retrospect he actually you're crazy for this in retrospect he was kind of on the money given how yes those women talked about how that movie was made but weirdly giving them the trophies as well helps not taint that win very strange win but very appropriate I'm pretty sure that win is tainted

I'm sorry it helps taint it less it makes it a little less tainted I never loved that movie no I don't like that movie at all but like I do always like when a palm door winner is given by a jury president who could never make that movie right like the classic david this is my take that i've thrown out to you like you we've talked about tim burton giving it to

uncle boone me where it's like this is the kind of movie i could never make it to joker i i think that's a thing where jury presidents usually give it to a movie where they're like, I don't know how you could make this. The jury president in 1993 was Louis Malle. I can't really speak to whether or not Louis Malle could have made Farewell My Concubine. Well, he probably couldn't have made Farewell My Concubine. I don't think he could have made The Piano Weaver, but he's not. Let's see. Oh, Claudia Cardinale.

Beautiful. Judy Davis. Abbas Kiarostami. Amir Kosturica. Claudia Cardinale. Beautiful. You've delivered Abbas Kiarostami, Amir Kosturica, Gary Oldman. Beautiful. This is a fun... I just always like thinking about them.

Oh, this is the jury. Of the 1993 Cannes Film Festival. But also just the names of the people I drink with. My rec room. Anyway. It opens November 19th. Number one, it's a sequel.

It's one of the great comedies in American cinema. The sequel is, it's called Adam's Family Values. It's a 10 out of 10 masterpiece that movie slaps. There's nothing wrong with it.

There's nothing wrong with it. I watched it on Christmas with my parents. It's a perfect movie. Every single joke works. It's short. Everyone has a complete character arc. It's a perfect piece of movie single joke works. It's short. Everyone has a complete character arc. It's a perfect piece of movie making.

Perfect. No notes. My take on it, I had my most recent rewatch during the Panini was, it's the only live action movie, I would say, that captures the comedic spirit of a great Simpsons episode. Very good.

Agree with that. Definitely. Where has the joke density and the absurdity, but there still is some emotional grounding to it. And it's just like fucking like relentless without being exhausting. It's a fucking incredible movie. It's opening to $14 million, which I believe is disappointing.

The film was a financial disappointment, right? It makes less than half of what the first one did. Yeah. Way less than half, I think. It made 46. It basically made what the piano made. Right. And the first one makes over 100. It's wild how hard that movie flopped considering it is so much better than the first one.

And not like different than the first one where people are like, what the fuck is this? It fixes all the problems. Yeah. Number two, the box office. What was Piano's domestic total? I think it's 40. It made $40 million. million dollars wild that those two movies wow okay uh piano made 40.1 million dollars um is an adventure film from the walt disney corporation is it like an adventure 10 000 years in the making no um it's uh it's a tale that's been filmed many times. I saw this in theaters. It's The Three Musketeers. With Sheen, Sutherland, O'Donnell, and Platt.

Such a weird name. And Tim Curry as the mean old Cardinal Richelieu. And Rebecca DeMornay. I remember I saw that in theaters when I was seven years old. And I was like, this is probably the coolest movie I've ever seen. I have no memory of it. I just had swords and shit. Are they doing another weird

Three Musketeers now? I feel like they announced it. Anytime they do, it's just the collection of people are such a good reflection of that exact moment in film. It is funny, you know, how many times they've done it.

But they haven't done it since the Paul W.S. Anderson one. That was the last. Right, it's been about 10 years. I don't like formal sword fighting. It's too, like, I like casual. You like casual sword fights. When they're sort of like, bah!

You like a back alley fight. You've seen The Last last duel, right? Oh, Ben. Ben. I really like Ben. Ben, that is... By the time they're fighting with swords, it is

informal as shit. You need to make sure you see that before we do the blankies episode. That's a high priority. You have to. But I disagree with you. I love formal high priority. No, good call. But I disagree with you. I love formal sword fighting. Well, because David loves rules.

Sure. I just love fencing. It's fun. David's favorite form of fighting is fencing because it's all fucking rule-based combat. Number three at the box office is a crime drama that I really, it was basically, I don't know if it was a big hit, but it was a movie that did fine. It's like. Carlito's Way?

It's Carlito's Way. You know what I mean? Where it's like. I'm quick today. You are. And it's like that movie, I guess it's right after Pacino's Oscar win, but it's a great Pacino performance. I think it's big, but it's great.

I think Carly DeSima picks it as the best movie of the 90s in like a four-way tie. Whatever. Those Frenchies. But you know. you know saw that on the wikipedia and i was like really i like when sourced it with four other fucking articles i know it's just that's a weird one to pick anyway and it's like yeah it's a good i don't know all right number four at the box office is a movie i'm gonna have to look up because i rings a bell but i don't know i'm searching if I imagined the announcement of a new...

Okay. This is... Yeah. It's like a super weepy starring your favorite actor. Me? Michael Keaton? Is it my life? It's my life.

Okay. I'm getting all of these. You are. I mean, I gave you a good clue there, but still. Yeah. You pulled my life. I've never seen that one. No.

It's awful. He's dying of cancer and he leaves like notes for his children the poster sucks no thank you nicole kidman is in this i will say uh a movie i love uh isabelle cosette's um my life without me i know the movie yeah that's interesting that you love it yes very controversial movie at the time really why ebert wrote a devastating review that destroyed it yeah where. Where he was like, it is unfathomable that she's not telling her kids that she has cancer.

I have cancer. This cannot... I'm morally disgusted. This cannot work. Wow. And that was a movie that had festival buzz, and that review killed it stone dead, and no one wanted to talk about it after that.

It was crazy. I've never seen it. I was on vacation in a foreign country. It's Sarah Polly, right? She has cancer and she's preparing her... She's very young. She lives in a trailer with Scott Speedman and her two kids in the backyard of her mom's house, who's Debbie Harry. And she realizes she's dying of cancer.

She doesn't tell her husband. She doesn't tell the kids. She doesn't tell the mom. And she just sort of bucket lists, like like I'm in my 20s. I never really had an adolescence because I got married so young and had these kids so young that I want to like do the life experiences. I want to make someone fall in love with me again for the first time. She has this romance with Mark Ruffalo. It's a film I really like. Yes.

And I think her immaturity is a big part of why she doesn't tell them, which is part of the whole thing. is a big part of why she doesn't tell them, which is part of the whole thing. I was going to say, I was on vacation with my family somewhere in some foreign country, and it was playing at a theater there, and I, unsurprisingly, when I would go on vacation with my family,

regardless of where we were, would just be like, can we go to the movies? So my mom took me to the theater there, and we're like, what's this thing playing? Is this a Sarah Pauly movie? It was like a year after it had come out in theaters and made no impact in the United States. Yeah, it didn't hit. And we were like, what's this thing playing? This is Sarah Pauly movie? Like it was like a year after it had come out in theaters

and made no impact in the United States. Yeah, it didn't hit. And we're like, this thing fucking rules. Why is no one talking about this? And the Ebert body blow makes perfect sense. But there was a sequence in that movie in which Sarah Pauly records like 20 cassette tapes so that every year her daughters

are going to have a tape to listen to after she's dead of a new year. A new message that's one of the most emotionally devastating things I've ever seen. And then I found out there's an entire movie of Michael Keaton doing that. And he's my favorite actor. And I still have never had the courage to watch that movie. Well, I don't think it's good. I don't think it's good.

But yes, number five at the box office is a film about a dog. My Life Without Me, I Like. No. It's a film about a dog. Is it Bingo? No. It's a funny movie about a dog. My Life Without Me, I Lie. No. It's a film about a dog. Is it Bingo? No. Beethoven. It's a funny movie about a dog.

No, I've never heard of this film. It's not Bingo. I'm sorry. It's a horror film about a dog. Cujo. Not Cujo. I'm kidding. This is the first one.

Looks like it's going for Cujo energy, though. It's going for Cujo energy. Is the title of the film like The Breed of the Dog or something? No, but it's a common phrase for referring to dogs i've never heard of this rover fido i want to show you the poster it's so crazy i'm gonna show it to ben first oh my god crazy man's best friend yes okay it's called man's best friend this is oh this is okay so we talked about this in carpenter this 90s trend of posters that were just sort of like distorted, warped faces. This poster looks like someone taking a picture of a dog like one second before the dog is mauling him.

It's like a Primal Scream album cover. Yes, yes. Nature created him. Science perfected him. But no one can control him. Man's best friend. Wow. Great.

Ally Sheedy, Lance Henriksen. I don't know. There's like a science dog that is on the loose. Okay. Other movies in the top 10. Nightmare Before Christmas. Hey, a masterpiece that hopefully we'll cover soon on the show. Sure.

Remains of the Day. A masterpiece that we probably won't cover as soon on the show. You don't want to do Ivory? We could. I'm just saying it's not as soon. Tinkle the Ivory? Sound like we've been talking about for a long time. I used to like that.

I did. It's funny. It's actually really funny. Number eight, Cool Runnings. I'm realizing this was probably the first year I was going to see movies that weren't cartoons because I saw that. I saw Musketeers. I saw, you know, yeah.

Number nine, Beverly Hillbillies. Feels like a movie Ben might like. Yeah. Right? And you know who directed Beverly Hillbillies? Stanley Kubrick. No. No, you don't know

this no directed by penelope spheras one of your favorite directors oh sure yeah yeah yeah you know after being this fucking like heavy metal countercultural figure she weirdly fell into a rabbit hole directing like little rascals beverly hillbillies and she's like you make a hit and then people just want you to do that thing again i became the person who adapted old tv number 10 is the piano number 11 esther is a movie you recently described to me as which is kathy nimigi oh yeah well hocus pocus yes yeah apparently esther could not remember the title i was on um i was on this had an oscar buzz and we did the imdb game which will have come out by this point and i was given I was given Thora Birch

and I just like I could not locate the name of Hocus Pocus I was like it's got Kathy Najimy and Sarah Jessica Parker and Bette Midler and their witches and like for some reason like a part of my brain just like couldn't figure out Hocus Pocus especially for a movie that in the last two years has been canonized as if it were the godfather part i know i was like people are obsessed with it like i just i obviously know the movie and i've seen the movie i just my brain i like lost the words for hocus pocus which is kathy najimy sounds like it's the french title of hocus pocus um can i just say That was like Italian There is a two part French adaptation Of Three Musketeers Being done by Pathé

Les Trois Musketeers Part one April 5th 2023 Three Musketeers colon D'Artagnan And then part two December 13th 2023 they're doing the full matrix Two parts six months apart Three Musketeers colon Milady December 13th, 2023. They're doing the full Matrix two parts, six months apart. Two in one. Yep.

The Three Musketeers colon m'lady. Oh, m'lady! But the cast includes Vincent Cassell. Sure. Romain Dury. Eva Green. Louis Garel. They're getting them all. Vicky Creeps. Creeps? Lena Kudry. Weirdly, she's playing D'Artagnan. She is.

Creeps is playing Queen Anne of Austria. Louis Garel is playing King Louis. You know what the best thing about her is what she's from luxembourg yeah who's from luxembourg no one her nobody but her she's literally the first and last person to be born yep yep anyway anyway yeah that's true she's uh she's in these three musketeers movies they look very yeah you know once in a while, the French make one of those movies that they're like, let's spend,

like the Asterix movies. We're going to spend a ton and everyone's in it. There's like a mega budget live action Jean Dujardin Lucky Luke movie that also doesn't exist.

Cool. I think I'm hearing, oh, it sounds like a piano is playing us off. Oh, it's time to go. Oh my God.

Well, I guess we should wrap up. We're being dragged into the ocean by this piano? Esther, thank you so much for being on the show again. Thank you for having me. The name of your book again is? Beyond the Best Dressed. Check it out.

Available in two days. Available in two days. Two days, god damn it. Check it in the description link. In the description there'll be a link to buy at bookstores. Yes. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and

subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. Joe Bone and Pat Rounds for our artwork. Leigh Montgomery for our theme song. AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing. Nick Lariano, JJ Birch for our theme song. AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our editing. Nick Lariano, JJ Birch for our research. You can go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit.

You can go to our Shopify page for some real nerdy merch, including Chipcoin, now in stock. The Spreadmaster spatula will be there soon. Heavily discounted t-shirts from previous years that are way out of date uh patreon.com slash blank check for blank check special features where uh we are allowing ourselves to feel good while busting uh but also uh just the thing we want to keep on spotlighting we're we're uh releasing uh old episodes from behind the paywall every 10 days. So every 10 days on Blank Check Patreon page, there'll be a new episode for those who are subscribers,

and there will be an old episode that's just an open link now for anyone who's not a subscriber. Esther is leaving. All right, all right, Griffin. What? I'm wrapping up the episode. It takes like 10 minutes now. Well, I'm sorry we hired so many people. And we're creating jobs. That we have multiple revenue streams.

Just finish it. Finish it. Last time I heard you liked money. Yeah, I do. I love it. You're doing great. But let's, yeah. Because Esther is now putting on her jacket.

She's gone. I did the wrap up so that Esther could leave. That's the whole point. She doesn't have to hear any of this. This is stupid. Yeah, it is dumb. We have to give everyone credit Well you're done and finally And always

Tune in next week for Portrait of a Lady And as always Get in my belly