Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Podcast Awakens

Episode Date: December 21, 2015

One day after the release opening of Episode VII: The Force Awakens (SPOILER ALERT!), Griffin and David discussed their impressions on the first installment of the newly revamped franchise. Together, they examine the film’s similar story structure to A New Hope, who would take new characters Resistance pilot Poe Dameron and protagonist Rey out on a classy dinner date, Kylo Ren being an evil nerd and why director J.J. Abrams accomplished where George Lucas had failed with the prequels: making an actual Star Wars movie.

there's been an awakening in the podcast. It's the... Hey, Griffin. Hi, David. You didn't sleep well last night. I didn't, because I had a lot of thoughts. My mind was racing. This is Griffin and David present the podcast Awakens.

I'm Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. With us, as always, is producer Ben Hosley. He's right there. Hello, panel. Hey, guys. So, did not see this movie. Sorry, Ben.

I'm fine with it. I mean, I'm going to see it eventually. I'm not in a rush. But hopefully you guys have something to say about it. I have a lot to say. We're going to be talking today. I don't have any real thoughts. You can take this one.

We'll swing. I'll say some stuff, and if you feel like anything pops up, I know you're not a man to really. I don't dwell on films. No, you don't deep think on media. No, here we are, guys. We're here to talk about Star Wars Episode VII, The Force Awakens. You and I saw it together last night.

Now, for a little perspective, we started this podcast in March. We wanted to talk about one thing. It was Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Man. And one by one, we went through every film in this series. Yes, sequentially. Focused on the Phantom Manus trilogy, Phantom Manus, Attack of the Clones,

Revenge of the Sith. Yeah. Did like 10, 11 episodes on each of those. And have sort of breezed past the original films from the 70s and 80s because you know, felt like it had been chewed up by other people. You know, there's less to say there because everyone has their thoughts. Of course.

This is kind of the moment that we've been. It's true. Almost at first inadvertently, but recently we've been leading up to this. Yeah, and I feel like, I don't know, everything's viewed through the prism of this movie. You know? Yeah. In culture and like where it places itself. Now, Ben hasn't seen it.

We're going to get into spoiler territory. I mean, we just, we have to discuss the whole thing. If you don't want to know about this movie, if you haven't seen it yet, really just don't listen. Don't listen. Just wait until you've seen the film,

which I assume most of you have. Yeah. So that applies to Ben as well. So you're just, you can't be in the room. No, I'm going to leave. And I'm not listening or cutting out any of this episode. Yeah. So this is just going to be, it's raw.

It's going to be raw. I mean, this is Griffin and David raw. This is Griffin and David raw. I'm wearing a red leather jacket. Griffin is David delirious. I always get confused which one, which suit he wears in which movie. But we're each wearing a skin-tight leather suit.

Yeah, you're in purple, I'm in red. Yeah, apologies in advance for the squeaking sounds. Ben won't be able to cut those out, but it's tight, lubricated leather. Yeah. So, Ben, any final words before you leave? And you're just going to sit outside and what, read a book? I'm going to go lunch.

We were talking about lunch. Okay. Um, you know, maybe have a quick smoke. And then you're just going to come back when we're done. It's bad kids. It is bad. Don't do it kids. Yeah.

Uh, and then, yeah, I'll come back and I'll, I'll be putting this out in the next few days and uh, whatever you guys say, whether it be offensive or I don't know, whatever you guys do is going to be out there in the world. We're just going to be honest. That's all we're going to be. We're going to be honest. Well, Ben, a.k.a. Purdue Ben, a.k.a. The Ben Ducer, a.k.a.

The Poet Laureate, a.k.a. Mr. Positive, a.k.a. Hello. Producer Ben Kenobi, a.k.a. Santa Haas. Yep. The peeper. The peeper.

He's a lot of things. He's a lot of things. A lot of things to us, but he is not a viewer of Star Wars The Force Awakens. So with that, I kindly say goodbye. Get the fuck out of here, Ben. Get the fuck out of here, Ben. Kindly get out of things. A lot of things to us, but he is not a viewer of Star Wars The Force Awakens. So with that, I kindly say goodbye, Ben. Get the fuck out of here, Ben. Get the fuck out of here, Ben. Kindly get out of here. Kindly.

Make sure it's recording. I say goodbye fennel to you. It's definitely recording, right? It's recording. People are going to be able to listen to this? Okay. This is a little weird. This is weird.

This is really weird. Oh, Ben. Bye, guys. Bye. It's actually, yeah, because, yeah, very Comforting knowing Ben's right over there Just on the ones and zeros He's our you know our voice of reason He's like looking three times

He's like triple checking that this isn't a fucked up decision He's taking the emotional like look back over the shoulder He's closing it reverse I actually feel Uncomfortable right now this feels very odd Ooh I don't like this this is really weird Yeah we're without a compass This feels like odd. Ooh, I don't like this. This is really weird. Yeah, we're without a compass right now. This feels like Home Alone. No.

What if the wet bandits come in and attack the studio? Joe Pesci out of retirement. Okay, Star Wars Episode VII, The Force Awakens. Yeah. Let's get this out of the way. We both like this movie. I really like this movie. Really like this movie.

And you know what? It's sticking nicely so far. Me too. Which is, to me, the crucial, especially with a movie like this movie and you know what it's sticking nicely so far which is to me the crucial especially with a movie like this where I'm probably going to be so overwhelmed while I'm watching it which is how I felt about the prequels like that I'm just you know I'm not going to totally trust

my feelings on it for a little while but like so far as the fizz sort of settles you know we open the bottle all the fizz came out settles. Yeah. You know we open the bottle all the fizz came out. Yeah. Now it's settling. I feel great.

I feel I don't feel like I have to run into a Starbucks bathroom. I don't. I'm comparing my feelings on movies to my digestive system. Oh sure.

I got you. I'm going to derail this already. I just realized a little housekeeping I want to do. I just want to do a quick series of plugs like rapid fire.

Yeah. Go ahead. One of which is I'm going to call up the opening of plugs. Like rapid fire. You. Yeah, go ahead. One of which is. I'm going to call up the opening crawl, by the way. Oh, great. To keep our fucking streak going. We're going to talk about the role that diversity plays in this film. Oh, fantastic.

Because it is important. But Black Man Can't Jump in Hollywood, my favorite podcast. Great podcast. Love it. Friends of the show have already released their force awakens episode they recorded one after seeing the movie last night

they like went god damn it I know I saw that this morning on my podcast app and I was like fuck fucking Braylock and he was

he was talking shit to me on Twitter this morning I love you John and he's got great hair love you Jonathan Braylock John Braylock's the best one of the hoods yeah

so we're gonna talk about diversity but those guys what a great yeah listen to those guys they're not white men they have a lot of wonderful things say. They're the voices you should listen to in the matter. I highly recommend that episode. Additional plugs. I tease that was good to do this like six weeks ago and then just forgot to do it. Avery Edison another friend of the show has a great I love you Avery. You're the greatest one of our earliest fans. Yes. Swings and roundabouts. I at one point said I'm going to listen to that next week and probably plug it. And then I listened to it and have loved it and have not plugged it. She's on episode three now. It's really good. It's a great podcast. She uses like Mac and talk on her computer to pretend to be her therapist and does written therapy sessions with a computer. Great. Love it.

Reminded me, because you said Fizz, I don't know if you know this, another long dormant franchise that's coming back to the light, Fizzy Boys. One of our favorite podcasts. So excited. Chris Gethard, friend of the show. Has it posted yet? They just recorded. I don't think it's posted yet. Fizzy Boys, which is a soda podcast.

Chris Gethard, Don Finnelli. Listen to that. That's it for podcast plugs. One final thing that I want to say. I have a show coming up Wednesday, December 23rd. Oh, a live show. A live show that I am hosting and producing with my good old buddy, Joe Garden. We love him.

Former features editor for The Onion, one of their original writers. Love him. It's the Griff and Joe Christmas Spectacular and to a lesser degree, Hanukkah Spectacular. It's going to be a dueling holiday special of us trying to represent our respective holidays. Great guests, including comedians, Brett Davis, Ray Sonny, Liam McEnany, Bronwyn Ariel Isaac, ventriloquist Nigel Dr. Del Dunkley, who I'll say is a guy I saw on a subway station platform and booked to do a show,

and Frankie Cosmos, who's like a great musician. Union Hall, I believe 8 o'clock Wednesday, December 23rd. Please come to that show. I want to plug The Atlantic, where I write. That's it. Storied establishment. Yep, founded by Ralph Waldo Emerson, among others, and now I write Star Wars nonsense on that website,

among other things. You wrote a great Admiral Pitt article, which I think we already saw in the last episode. Okay, so I just want to say before, I don't want people reading into, because this is a podcast where I've been known to get very effusive at times, you know? Yeah. Either overly angry, overly excited.

I'm gonna try to be a little tempered in this episode. Yeah. I don't want people reading into it like, oh, between the lines, I think he's disappointed. Well, but, oh yeah. Sure. I'm trying to just be objective. I'm trying to be level-headed with this because it's hard to reconcile with this movie. I mean, it's hard

to believe that we've seen it. For so long, it existed as this mirage. Yeah. I still don't totally get that I've seen it, if that makes sense. I need to see it again. I feel the same way. When it was happening,

it's that thing where your brain just kind of slips into some sort of low battery mode where you're just like, oh, this is too much to think about right now. All right. All right. All right. All right.

Calm down. Calm down. Almost like what happens to R2-D2 where you just sit back and let things happen. Yeah, you just go into low power mode. Until the end of the movie happened. My friend John Henry, who happened to be in the same screening as us last night, we got drinks after the movie. And we were saying that, like that when you're watching the movie,

it's something happening to you, so you can just kind of succumb to it. Yeah. But to actually think about it. Which is also Abrams' specialty. These movies that kind of you just have to succumb to and let them kind of drag you along. He's like a real showman. He's giving you a lot of show, and he's keeping the ball in the air

and moving things fast. We're saying it's much more difficult to have seen it and deal with it as like memories in your head and have to actively like pull apart those memories, you know? But we both like this movie a lot. Yeah. My biggest thing is- Really liked it. Really liked it.

And I like, I mean, can speak for both of us because I was checking in with you just visually a lot throughout the movie. We were both like grinning like idiots. I was grinning a lot. Giggling. Giggling a lot. Was pretty quiet. Nice audience cheered at all the right moments but didn't go berserk.

We saw it at the AMC 25 in Times Square at 7 o'clock. What a shit show. 2D. I do not plug seeing anything at the AMC 25. Let's unplug the AMC 25. Fuck that theater. The most successful movie theater in the world was not prepared.

They were baffled. Baffled. I showed up like three hours early. Okay. They thought everyone was online for Krampus. Okay, it's a lot.

Three hours is a lot. I show up and there's maybe a handful of other people like me. And the guy's just like, oh, but your movie's at seven. I can't let you in for a while. It's the biggest movie of all time.

Like, you realize you sold out, like, every screening of this goddamn thing, right? You realize that you're not closing for the next 72 hours. They're doing, like, 4 a.m. screenings. I felt very bad for the ticket takers and the various sort of, like, workers at AMC who obviously had not been given, like, a blueprint, like a game plan. The managers fucked up. Yeah, exactly. I had a 40-minute concession stand line

where when I got on the line, I was fifth on the line. It took 40 minutes for me to get from fifth to first. As that happened, the line grew to be literally 100 people on one of six lines. That never makes sense to me because we know that's where movie theaters make their money.

Why don't you have eight people at the concession stand on a Star Wars day? Yeah, you know what was really annoying? It was like, I love that we're just talking this much about the theaters mismanagement. You know what? We don't have a time limit on this. We can talk about whatever we want. There were two people who were just very slowly, with no

urgency, loading popcorn into the bags and then putting them on that little glass case where they stay heated under the heat lamp. And then no one was selling the popcorn bag. No one wants those bags anyway, by the way. I hate heat lamp popcorn. But people were saying like, hey, can I get some popcorn, please? And they were like, hold on a second. And someone's putting the popcorn in the bag and they're not selling it.

All right, we are very much off track. Okay, we got there, 7 o'clock. Whole theater is pretty much, there are like four screens Putting the popcorn in the bag and they're not selling it. All right. We are very much off track. Okay. We got there. Seven o'clock. Whole theater is pretty much. There are like four screens that aren't playing The Force Awakens. Yeah. There was Krampus, like you said.

Krampus. There was some Krampus. Which, by the way, I'll plug Krampus. I liked it. Cool. I hope this is our pluggiest episode ever. Oh, so many plugs. But we saw it in one of the smaller screens. Yeah.

I mean, it was a fine screen. It was a fine screen. But, you know, not your sort of blown out IMAX-y type screen. But it definitely kind of felt like we were the latchkey kids, you know? Like all the cool kids were at their IMAX 3D screening, and we were like, we're in this together. We were theater 16 for whatever reason. They didn't let us go up until much later. It felt like we were all in it together.

Wow, we're really griping about this. I know, but our crowd liked it a lot. I'm saying, we just had this bad news bears theater. Everyone was very happy to be there. Everyone was very pumped, yes. But what I liked was, you know, they cheered and clapped at the sort of cheer and clap moments where the movie's almost giving you a second. Yeah.

But they weren't just the whole time being like, oh my God, Star Wars is up. Yeah. Well, and it also felt like, you know, what I'm not going to do on this episode is say, this is the best one yet. No, no. A, because it isn't. No. But B, it's also because I'm so guarded because of the fact that I saw all three of those

movies and thought they were great at the time. Yeah, me too. I think this is going to hold up, but you don't know. You don't know, but I think it's going to hold up better. 100%. Yeah. I feel like objectively, I'm also an adult now. You know? That's the thing. And everyone's sort of coming at me being like, hey man, everybody liked Phantom at the time. And it's like, you know, that was a different time. Yes. And critics,

the critics who liked Phantom in general, didn't care about Star Wars that much. No, they were just like, this movie's big. Yeah, and they were like, look, he made another one of them and it's got all the bleeps and bloops. Yeah. And, you know, I don't know. I guess it's good. I feel like the critical reaction to Phantom Menace, critics, I'm talking about film critics, who were generally

kind of gave it a pass. You know, it's not like it was getting raves, but it got like a, yeah, sure. You know, they were a slightly older generation. They didn't care about Star Wars in the same way. Yeah, the critics we have now are people who grew up on Star Wars, like yourself. Well, but forget me. Like, even people who are older than me, even like...

Watch the original films in theaters. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different vibe. Here's a big thing that I think shifted, too. I think as the bloom came off the rose with Phantom Menace and following that, Attack the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Yeah.

In these 10 years where there was not a Star Wars movie, save for Clone Wars. Let's not talk about it. They, I feel like as a culture, not just like the hyper nerds, but as a culture, there was a mainstreaming of studying the semiotics of those movies. Yeah, the original movies. Because people sort of were really, much like us,

trying to figure out, why do these work and these don't? Yeah, why did they endure? Why did the prequels not make sense? Right, and something like the Red Letter Media Mr. Plunkett videos, which went very viral. Very, very well received. And just 10 years of people doing stand-up routines about it, Patton Oswalt's Media, Mr. Plunkett videos, which went very viral. Very, very well received. And just 10 years of people doing stand-up routines about it, Patton Oswalt's bit, all these things. I feel like everyone's sort of gotten a sense of like, okay, this is what Star Wars actually is.

Those critics looked at it and they went, yeah, they're robots, they're aliens, ships fly. Boops and bloops. It's Star Wars. Boops and bloops. Right, and then in the last 10 years, I feel like the people who cared about these movies were like, no, let's figure out what it is. And this is the first thing I can say. JJ Abrams has successfully identified what it is that makes Star Wars, Star Wars.

I agree. But I mean, I do think that's his strength as a storyteller. Agreed. And you know, I think that like, it's, it's not hard to say,

like, have you seen his Star Trek? You know, his 2009 Star Trek. What he felt like he had done there, at least to me when I saw it, was he had identified the semiotic strengths of Star Wars and plugged this movie into them. Yeah. And this movie goes the exact same path of, like, you're taking your character, one, then they kind of bump into the next one, bump into, You know, all these sort of story coincidences on this kind of rolling train. And, you know, it just sort of gathers steam

and it's steeped in nostalgia. But, you know, it's doing enough new stuff that you're kind of overjoyed by it. But this is such a fucking Star Wars movie. Yeah. I feel like your mileage with this film will largely exist in relation to how you feel about Star Wars.

Do you love Star Wars? You're probably going to love this movie. Yeah, it feels like a Star Wars movie. Do to how you feel about Star Wars. Do you love Star Wars? You're probably going to love this movie. Yeah, it feels like a Star Wars movie. Do you not particularly care about Star Wars? You're probably not going to really care for that. You're probably going to think the movie's okay and kind of gets messy at the end. I feel like that's going to be your take. But what were my two biggest wishes for this movie?

I want it to be fun. It definitely is. Very fun. In the next episode that's being released, our holiday special, which we recorded before this. Look forward want it to be fun. It definitely is. Very fun. In the next episode that's being released, our holiday special, which we recorded before this. Look forward to that one, guys.

We each made predictions about what we thought were going to happen in the movie. And I'll say, I nailed my predictions. I have 100% correct. The second thing is,

I want to feel like a Star Wars movie. Yeah. I want to feel like I'm watching Star Wars and this makes me feel the way Star Wars does. Wild success in that category.

Let's read the crawl because this is, I would say, the best category. Let's read the crawl because this is I would say the best crawl. It's a good crawl. And it's like straight to the point J.J. Abrams is like I'm not fucking around with you. I'm not fucking talking about trade federation blockades. I'm not using like circular

language that's hard to follow. Go on. Do you have the crawl? Of course. Let's read it. Episode 7 The Force Awakens. Let's read it. Episode 7, The Force Awakens. Just quick sidebar. Some people weren't sure if Episode 7

was going to be in the title because in the marketing materials just Star Wars, The Force Awakens. Right. But this movie opens with fucking Episode 7. But I was always sure

that it would. What I thought that Abrams was doing was what Lucas did which is those movies originally were marketed as Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi.

And then when you went in, that was the subtitle. The episode thing only came around for Phantom Menace, and I think he only deployed it. And if you remember, the poster title of the Phantom Menace is like little font, Star Wars, big font, Episode 1, little font, The Phantom Menace, which is fine. I think he was trying to be like, this is a prequel. That was his thing. Fine.

So almost everything else Abrams has done in this movie, which is fine. I think he was trying to be like this is a prequel. You know, that was his thing. Yeah. Fine. So this is like almost everything else Abrams has done in this movie. He's taken it back to the original just with a remix. It's like a great cover album. You know, it's like

listening to like Otis Redding. I agree with that except it's like a great cover album except there's also a fucking awesome new saxophonist

who's like gonna just like take over the world. And her name is Daisy Redding. You listen to Otis Redding live in Europe, right? Which is one of my favorite albums ever. I love Otis Redding. Yeah. And like he does Respect. He does Aretha Franklin's Respect.

And he completely reorchestrates it, changed the energy of it. You know, the song is wildly different from being sung by a man rather than a woman. Yeah. Aretha Franklin's version is maybe still better because it has the newness and the discovery, you know? But, like, great fucking cover.

He made his own, and he changed it. He changed the text of it, you know? Not literally the lyrics. But, like, I feel like this is the same thing. He's very conscious about what he's keeping the same and what he's changing. And structurally, it's very, very similar to A keeping the same and what he's changing. And structurally, it's very, very similar to A New Hope.

Okay, let's read The Crawl. The Crawl. Luke Skywalker has vanished. I mean, amazing. Bam. Because, like, everyone's been going,

where's Luke? Why isn't he in the marketing materials? Not in the trailer. Not in the posters. Right off the bat, they're telling us, like, here's what's good.

Luke Skywalker has vanished. So cool. In his absence the sinister first order has risen from the ashes of the empire and will not rest

until Skywalker the last Jedi has been destroyed wait so you're telling me that this movie isn't going to cover how slowly a forced order

first order comes together that they're just gonna tell us that it happened and then just set the world in that movie, the movie in that world. Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

With the support of the Republic. Cool. General Leia Organa leads a brave resistance. So cool. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy. Okay. Love it.

Emotional stakes. Cool. Sure. Fine. It's personal. Leia has sent her most daring pilot on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Luke's whereabouts. It's a good crawl. Good crawl.

I have no problem with the crawl. You're kind of high on the crawl. I loved it. I think that first line is great. Amazing. I think that first line is great. Amazing. I think that the first order resistance thing is fine.

It's a little confusing. I like that they just sum it up in one sentence. It's like, out of the ashes, the first order rose. And it's like, you know, I was drinking with geeks last night. Myself included. Self-identifying. And, you know, we were weighing the things we did and didn't like about the movie. And they were like, I wish there was a little more explanation of the First Order.

Could have done with a little more. Now, I was talking to my pal Spencer Kornhaber, who I adore, who was not a huge fan of this movie. My co-worker. And that was one of his complaints. It was like, what is this, you know, what is this First Order? What is this resistance like? And it seems like it was a problem with Matt Singers, too,

another friend of ours. You know, I think that Abrams seems so focused on avoiding everything about the prequels that, you know, maybe he could identify as a problem. And the obsession with politics, the obsession with, like, the machinations of this galaxy yeah and just immediate spoiler no there's like senate scenes in this entire movie none none zero um so you know so maybe that's one of the reasons that yes they but it is

because like i have to sort of project a lot of my guesses onto it right so you've got this idea that like the empire is is you know decapitated in return of the jedi but obviously it's many sort of functions and it's like you know it's military it's all still out there like war must ensue like just sort of, more of a drudgery, you know, type of, you know, like, just sort of chipping away planet by planet. Agreed. As this Republic,

which is obviously somewhat of a fragile entity, is created. And if you also, like, okay, so let's say you dismantle the Empire, there's still going to be people, civilians who are followers. Yeah. Who are going to want to go like,

well, I liked what they were up to, let's carry the torch. You're trying were going to want to go like, well, I liked what they were up to. Let's carry the torch. You're trying to govern a galaxy. So, I mean, so this first order, which seems to have a lot of resources. Yeah. Because they built a planet base. It's a planet.

And there's this like great scene where it's General Hux, played by Donald Gleeson, giving a big speech. Sort of the leader. And it looks like Triumph of the Will. That's the idea. And it's like hundreds and thousands of stormtroopers. I read somewhere Abrams was saying the idea he thought of was like, what if the Nazis in Argentina, like the sort of Nazi remnant, had just sort of survived and taken hold in a new organization? Okay.

But they're pretty big, like you're saying, the resistance. Really big. And they built a planet. I mean, not the resistance the first order yes yes and so here's the real question yeah so we kind of get that whatever it's sort of the empire rebranded right and even in an even more terrifying sort of way yes um what the hell is the resistance because they are the establishment uh kind of like if the republic is you know in existence which it seems to be according to this crawl that's a good point yeah then why are they called

the resistance exactly why isn't this just the republic army he's made this distinction for some reason and there are vague references very tossed off references from Kylo Ren mostly about their liars and the resistance and the Republic are one thing. And I just could have done with, I'm sure you could have just tossed in a couple of junkie sentences, just a little more clarity.

Well, okay, so this is a complicated issue, a thorny issue that I want to get into, okay? Yeah. J.J. Abrams is someone who studies the semiotics, figures out how it works, why it works, recreates it, right? Puts it on spin on

and adds a lot of new stuff too, but that's really his skill as, you know, like a pop culture showman. Sure. Agreed. One of the things that is so effective

about the original trilogy and especially A New Hope, a.k.a. Star Wars, period, is that there is so much happening outside of the parameters of the movie. You know? Yeah. There's so much implied history to everything. So little is explained. You feel like you're just being dropped into the world. And you can tell the world is fully realized in his mind.

And you can sort of infer what's going on just from how people behave with each other, just how they speak about stuff. They don't explain how structures happen. And in fact, when you go back and explain those things, a lot of times demystifies. Right. Yes. As done in the prequels. I know now. done in the prequels. I know. Now by all accounts George Lucas originally

wrote this massive screenplay that he presented to Fox when he was pitching the original Star Wars in their mid 70s and they were like this is incomprehensible. It's huge. It would cost 5 billion dollars. And he sort of pared it down and made like A New Hope

but it was essentially like the second act of his story right and so part of why there's so much bursting at the seams in that movie is he knew exactly what happened right before and right after i don't think that's true i know i think i don't think he knew exactly i think like right before i think he changed it after that but i'm saying i have never i i will say it this is a sidetrack but like it has always been a little mysterious what exactly Lucas had. I think he changed his plans. What is known is that the story that comprises A New Hope was originally a small part of that original screenplay.

He wanted that script to span decades. Yeah, yeah. I think he changed all of his plans on the fly. But the point was, he built this world in a movie where he thought he'd be able to explain everything, resolve everything, and in fact realize, no, just do the middle section. That's the thing that people want to see. We don't need the explanation. We don't need everything ending. Tidy bow. We just need the little story there. And so that sort of happened by accident because he did all this work that then he cut out, but it was still in there. He had the thoughts. J.J. Abrams is trying to replicate that same

effect, but I think he is doing that by purposefully withholding information. You know what I'm saying? Which is his want to do. I kind of buy your argument, but I still just... No, I'm not saying this in a good way or a bad way. I just think it's an interesting thing to look at because he's going, I want the same thing where there's so much implied and so much that isn't explained,

but he's not doing that by accident. He's going, let me write stuff. I'm sure if you sat down with J.J. Abrams, he'd be able to explain it all to you. I like having less explained but it also feels like

at times he could give us a little more. Yeah, I know what you mean, obviously, and the original movie doesn't explain much either but if you're talking

about something that is referenced, it's all jumping off of things we already know, but you've changed it in ways that don't totally make sense. Agreed. Could have just, whatever. It doesn't matter.

Let's move on. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I just think it's interesting. Now, The Last Night of the Crawl sets up what's maybe my least favorite element of this entire movie. An old ally has discovered some, you know, a map to Skywalker. Biggest demerit against J.J. Abrams. Don't cast Max von Sydow in this part.

What is this? It's incredibly distracting. He plays a character called, what's his name? It's like Tark-Ball-Foom, something like that. He's got like- Lor-San-Tecca. Lor-San-Tecca. Not Lord, Lor-San-Tecca.

Lor-San-Tecca. Max von Sydow- One of the greatest actors of all time. Arguably one of the greatest actors who all time arguably one of the greatest actors who has ever been in movies yeah I mean one of the

most incredible careers ever if you look at all the different things he's spanned all the different people he's worked with you know how much he's 86 years

old he's gone through so many different iterations of of what film is been there along the way as like this medium and this industry developed in different countries,

you know? Yeah, love Max Busset. Love him. What's he doing in this movie? To open the movie with him. He has the first line. Oh, wait. Producer Ben just stuck

his head back in. Checking the levels. Bye, Ben. Great. I love you, Ben. He has the first line of the levels. Bye Ben. Great. I love you Ben. Here's the first line of the movie. Yeah which is like this should set things right

or something like that. Which is pretty meta. I know. It is a little meta. And he's talking to Poe Dameron played by Oscar Isaac. Played by Oscar Isaac. Who is you know

the most daring pilot that leia has said yeah um but he like there's no character here it's just like here's an old man giving something to someone yeah i mean who the fuck an old ally who the fuck is this guy it's so distracting when it's max von seidel you could have cast anybody in this right we're nitpicking though anyway he right because like let's not, you know. Yeah. But, I mean, yeah, you got Max von Sydow, who, like, obviously we've known was in the movie. You know, his casting has been announced.

He gets and Max von Sydow. He was part of the original cast announcement along with the leads. And it's like, okay, great. There he is. He gets this flash drive. Yeah, he hands a flash drive to Poe Dameron. Played by Oscar Isaac. I'll say this. I think maybe the reason they cast Max von Sydow is

pretty much the first beat in the movie is Kylo Ren, the movie's big villain, killing him while hunting for this info. And von Sydow just murders this one minute, maybe not even, 40 second confrontation with him.

Maybe even less, maybe like 30. Where he's basically a mix of sort of scornful and despairing about Kylo Ren, who we obviously know nothing about. But he also just sort of gives up. He's like, I can't keep on, you know? Yeah, but I mean, so maybe Abrams just wanted someone

who could really sell the shit out of that scene. But you know what? Just get some random English guy. That was the trick George Lucas pulled over and over again. It usually works. Bunch of great stage actors you could get to play that part. Whatever. So Kylo Ren, you know.

It's more just annoying because you're like, are we supposed to know who this is? Does he have some sort of analog in the original trilogy? No. But no, he doesn't. He's just Lor San Tekka. No, and I was almost expecting that later in the film other characters would like talk about him in ways that put him in a great perspective and like they never did he's just an old guy hands a flash drive to poe dameron not a bad performance

but just distracting because you keep on going like there has to be a reason they hired max on cedow to do this and they it's never uh revealed no whatever whatever uh ho dameron gets this flash drive and is immediately besieged by kylo rem in this they're on jakku yeah this desert-y tatooine-y planet almost identical it's pretty much tatooine yeah um but i mean i think wisely look i mean this is the remix i'm talking about it's like abrams was like we need to as a planet can't be tatooine there's too much mojo with that yeah there's just like that's just there's a whammy on that one prequel whammy original movie whammy we'll just we'll just revive it it'll be a new you know type of also tatooine supposed to be in the outer rim yes this

is not this is very much in the center of things and was the site of some sort of great battle that happened a long time ago because there's crashed starships everywhere. Yeah, and it feels shittier than Tatooine. It feels like... Yeah, it's even shittier than Tatooine. It's even shittier and there's like, it's more um... What's the word I'm looking for?

It's even more sparse. There's less civilization. It feels like there's less life on it, you know? No huts. No huts. The huts really made the trains run on time in Tatooine, you know? Yes, yes, I do know. Okay, so Kylo Ren comes in.

Comes in. Stormtroopers. They look great. Yeah, it looks cool. Captain Phasma, who's like his right hand. I believe the first shot of the movie is those stormtroopers in the ship, right? And like the light kind of rattling. Well, we do the classic Star Wars shot where like the ship is

overhead. There's a moon and then the ship. It's under us actually. And you see how big the ship is and then it's stormtroopers rattling, which is immediately an interesting start. And it's like lights flashing. You're getting like these little like, you know, seizure inducing glimpses of like the stormtroopers in the wings waiting to attack.

And we're getting a sense of the mental experience of one of our heroes, Finn. Right. But we don't really know that yet, but that is what's happening. So then, cut to Lur Santaka, hands the flash drive. Almost immediately, they land. They land.

Start fucking shot. Great moment, let's say. Poe Dameron shoots his gun. Well, I was about to's say Poe Dameron shoots his gun Poe Dameron shoots his gun from a long range like a sniper kind of ray gun and Kylo Ren this sort of Darth Vader type this black mask

clad you know guy played by Adam Driver just flips around and stops the laser beam in time there's just a laser beam in the air it's just frozen in the air. Cool. It's pretty cool. Yeah.

And Poe Dameron, you know, gets, like, that's it. He's captured. But luckily, he put his flash drive in a little ball droid called BB-8, who zaps off in the other direction, R2-D2 style. Mirror number one. The film starts with someone- I swear to God, it's probably already mirror number four, but yes. But big mirror.

Yeah, plans in the droid. Character who's about to be taken, kidnapped. Taken, kidnapped. What am I talking about? I slept like three hours last night. Who's about to be taken hostage, puts his information in a droid, and now this droid is left to wander the desert alone. But let's talk about Oscar Isaac in this movie in this movie we gotta talk about all these characters because he immediately is like giving

kylo ren so much lip yes as the english might say he's just like totally oh this guy's fucking magic he's one of the best he's a great actors we have yes yeah um he's like incapable of having an uninteresting moment on screen. Mm-hmm. And this is an interesting part for him because when they announced that he was going to be in the film, I was like, well, obviously, Oscar Isaac got a hard edge. He usually plays these people who are fucking angry at the world. You know, have Chip on their shoulder. He's like Llewyd Davis, Most Violent Ear.

Yeah. In Show Me a Hero on HBO this year. Yeah. Yeah. Even Ex Machina is like this guy who doesn't trust anyone he's great in everything great performance um but i thought okay he's gonna be the han solo analog he's gonna be the character we all thought because he's playing a pilot we all just thought he would be the slightly more cynical sort of fucking star wars

bullshit you know you've got your your two like, kind of more moon-eyed leads. Yes. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, and then Oscar Isaac's in there to be kind of... No, he is the most earnest, lovable, aw shucks, I love flying a ship, fuck you bad guys kind of guy. Right, like, he gives lip to the bad guys, but that's because he hates bad guys. He's a good guy. He doesn't like bad guys. He's, like, the least conflicted good guy I've ever seen. He likes to fly his ship around and shoot bad guys. Yeah.

He's the best pilot in the goddamn galaxy. But Oscar Isaac's such a good actor that it doesn't feel like, oh man, what a lame one-dimensional Boy Scout character. It's like, oh, this is a real portrayal of a guy who just loves being good. Yeah. He has no exact analog to the original movies, I would say. He's probably the least connected to the original movies in that way. Yeah. Because everyone else

in the original movies is not really part of the rebel framework to begin with. You know, they kind of get sucked into it one by one. Luke, Han, Lando.

I feel like our... Leia kind of is, but she's sort of her own thing. I feel like our three main leads from the 70s movies, Leia, Han, and Luke, it's like they put them all in one pot together and then stirred them up

and then distributed all those pieces amongst our three new leads. Yeah. The leads do not have exact analogs. They have a mix map. Most of this movie has pretty solid analogs to the original movie. Story-wise, 100%.

Not so much with these lead characters. Yeah, just have a little bit of everything. Yeah. Oscar Isaac's great. He's not in this movie a ton. No, i'm hoping they use him more in the future films every time he's on screen i was rock hard he's great um but you know he's there to to as our entry character yeah he gets captured by kylo ren yeah he gets taken up jakku is getting just massive these people are getting massacred well and kylo renlo Ren... Kylo Ren is after Luke Skywalker, which these plans supposedly would lead him to him.

And Kylo Ren kills Lorne Santeca, and then he's like... Troops. Kill them all. Kill them all. So as they're all getting taken away, one of the troops can't do it. He can't shoot people.

They're lined up all these civilians. You see humans, you see aliens, and they all look sad, defenseless children. Yeah, of course. Very sad. They all get murdered by these stormtroopers, but one guy just can't pull the trigger. And he's focusing

on the stormtrooper but you don't see his face. You know, it's like, this guy looks as masked and anonymous as anyone else. And he also, one of the stormtroopers

gets shot, I guess, by Poe, I think. And puts a bloody paw print, hand print, on this stormtrooper's helmet. Which is great visual storytelling. So while he has the helmet on you can tell which one it is. Anyway, and and so already kylo ren and this guy's commanding

officer phasma who's this like chrome stormtrooper they notice like something's up with this kid he's not pulling his pull the trigger but they're also like look we'll deal with that yeah you know this is clearly a well-oiled machine that has no patience for whatever's going on any kind of individuality. Right. But they're also like, eh, it's a kink, we'll smooth it out. So they get back on the ship and they go back to their base and then you see this stormtrooper with the bloody helmet

take his helmet off. Right, it's Rey. It's Finn, sorry. Finn. John Boyega. Which we knew. I mean, if you've seen any trailer, you know. He's the stormtrooper. He, you know, we get a very brief idea of these stormtroopers. Rather than being like a clone base yeah and this is even mentioned it's the one prequel thing that gets mentioned yeah is hucks and ren are arguing about like they're the stormtroopers yeah and you know they say like well

clones we know we want clones yeah these are like brainwashed they're like taken from families at baby age they're like child soldiers and brainwashed yes they're taken from families at baby age. They're like child soldiers. And brainwashed. Yes, they're like child soldiers. It's like Netflix's mediocre movie. They were raised within... Beasts of No Nation. I haven't seen it. It's all right. It's pretty good.

They were raised within this environment. They know nothing else. And this is, I think, one of the places where J.J. Abrams really successfully identifies what makes Star Wars Star Wars. This is a guy who has known nothing else in his life. Right. He explains later he was taken as an infant, was trained for this. But this was his first mission.

There's a funny twist where they say later in the film that he worked in sanitation. This was his first mission and something just clicks in him. What? It's not going to work. It's almost like he has a moment where he's like, am I the bad guy in this movie and just doesn't want to kill people. And it's left ambiguous if it's just he's just one in a million and it just didn't work out. Yeah.

Or if there is some sort of larger force-related incident. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. But he takes off the helmet and John Boyega, a phenomenal actor, conveys so much in the first look that he gets. He's sweating. And he's scared and he's a little boy.

He doesn't know what he's doing. What I like about Boyega's performance in this is it's a real performance. Yes. He leaves the movie star performances to Ridley, Daisy Ridley and Oscar Isaac. And Harrison Ford.

Right. We have so much to talk about. In this whole movie is so discombobulated and doesn't let go of that. And like doesn't let go of the fact that this guy is almost trying to keep up and be cool. As everyone around him is so cool. This is what I would say. Everyone else is giving a movie star performance.

And John Boyega is giving a character actor performance of a guy pretending to be a movie star. His character is someone who wants everyone else to think that he's like the cool hero of the movie. He's kind of like the teen sidekick. Yeah. Who is like, you know, could be the hero one day yeah but right now it's just kind of like looking at everyone else and being like okay all right okay you're doing that okay well we're skipping ahead a little bit but like there's a there's an exchange that happens later between finn and han solo where i kind of realized like, this is who Han Solo was when he was 23.

Like, when we meet Han Solo in A New Hope, he's, like, 34. Yeah, right. He's already been around the block. And this is, like, Finn in, like, the fake it till you make it stage. Right. Where, like, Han Solo already successfully doesn't give a shit when we meet him. And, like, Han seems to recognize that. At this point now, what I like, because in A New Hope, he's all bluster.

He's the cock of the walk. He's trying to be impressive. The minute Obi-Wan leaves the bar table, he's like, Jesus Christ, thank God they're hiring us. In this movie, when they're presented with a stressful situation, he's like, I don't know, I'll do my usual bullshit. It usually works out. So you go, it's three stages in the evolution of a type of person, right? Finn is the guy who knows how he wants people to see him but doesn't know how to pull it off yet. Han Solo is the guy who's able to pull it off successfully

even though it's an act. Yeah. And old Han Solo is the guy who's dropped the act and is finally just ready to be real. Finn takes off the helmet. Immediately Captain Phasma is like, who told you to fucking take your helmet off? I know. Put your helmet back. Gwendolyn Christie plays Captain Phasma. Pretty small role but you know what? Great voice. Really cool. I know. Put your helmet back on. Gwendolyn Christie plays Captain Phasma.

Pretty small role but you know what? Great voice. Really cool. Great voice. Amazing character design. This armor looks unbelievable. She's got a little side cape a little shoulder cape

chrome armor but it also feels like like a metatextual thing of like stormtroopers aren't supposed to be characters. Put your helmet back on. I know.

I actually like that. Me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good call. You know? That's a good call. The whole idea is that they're anonymous force. We don't humanize them.

And we never see, in any of the original movies, a stormtrooper take his helmet off, except for Han and Luke when they're pretending, but that doesn't quite count. Yeah. And it does seem wrong. It's like, whoa, no, no, no. No one's supposed to know that there's a person under there. Yeah. You know what I mean? You are the

sort of fist of the, well, at this point, the First Order. Yeah. You're just fodder. You know what I mean? You are the sort of fist of the, well at this point, the First Order. You're just fodder. You're cannon fodder. And there's a real humanist point to this too, which is like you can't argue that everyone who fights on the wrong side of a war

is in and of themselves. No, I mean there are these moral quandaries that people pose about the original trilogy, which is like, you know, they blew up the Death Star. There's, you know, what about the poor, like, garbage men on the Death Star or whatever?

You know, like, how much can blame be transferred among the employees of the empire? But you know what? That's war. Yes, right. And I'm a Jew who's eternally terrified of there being another Holocaust. But, like, it is naive to think that

you know if you just grow up in Germany and that's the guy who's in charge and he's enlisting people for the army I'm sure a lot of people had their fin moments where they were like oh fuck what the fuck am I doing but it's also like a lot of people get caught up in a world where they just don't have perspective you know they don't know that there is

wrong I'm not supporting Nazis no I know you're not but let's stay away't know that there is wrong. I'm not supporting Nazis. No, I know you're not, but let's stay away from that anyway. But you get what I'm saying. Well, but more, but like, to be fair, this movie doesn't even,

doesn't even dip into that moral territory so much because it's like, no, he was brainwashed. You know, like, they make it very clear. Well, same with the Hitler youth. I mean, that's a greater analogy. Or child soldiers,

is what we're saying. My point is, my point is, they're going, here is a faceless mask that we have seen throughout these other movies. His only name is FN-2187. He never had a name. They gave him a code name.

Something just clicks in him. Something clicks in him. He immediately, Abrams is like, let's go, go, go. Poe gets free. No, he frees Poe. Kylo rents to Poe. Interrogates him. Tries to get the information out of him. Can't do it. No, no. He, he frees Poe. Poe is, you know, Kylo rents to, you know, cultures Poe. Interrogates him, tries to get the information out of him, can't do it. Reports back.

No, no, he gets the information out of him. Oh, yes, you're right. It's just the information is just, it's in a droid. Right. Yeah, it's like, I gave the information to someone else, you can't have it. Yeah, and, uh, and so Finn frees him and says, like, you know, I'm having this moment of crisis, can we get out of here? And Poe immediately is like, you just need a pilot. But okay, I'm your pilot.

So good, yeah. They get in the TIE fighter, they get the fuck out of there, go back to Jakku. Right.e immediately is like you just need a pilot but okay I'm your pilot so good yeah they get in the TIE fighter they get the fuck out of there go back to Jakku right which Finn is like whoa no no no no no there's a funny beat in this movie over and over again is that everyone Finn meets wants to go back to Jakku the site of his like trauma and he's like can we go anywhere

else we have spaceships even if I didn't have the worst moment of my life take place on that planet it's also just objectively interesting place shitty place but you know poe needs to go get bb8 yeah they get in this tie fighter the tie fighter crashes and they are separated poe is basically out of the movie for the next hour i just want to step back for a second just discuss the layers the layers of the moment where where fin Finn is, you need a pilot thing. Yeah, that's a great moment.

With Poe. It's like immediately Finn comes in and he's like, I'm saving you. He's sweaty, scary, this and that. And Poe immediately sees through it and is like, you're trying to get your own ass saved. You want a pilot? That's fine, I'll help you.

Just be honest with me. Don't fucking pretend that you're like. Here's what I like. The moment where Finn is like, Finn is obviously like, oh God, I don't know what to do. Yeah. I'll get this guy out of here, maybe that'll work. And he's like, can you fly a TIE fighter? Like, really nervous. Yeah. And Poe just goes, I can fly anything.

And Finn, John Boyega, flashes this, like, delighted grin. Movie star smile. Where he's just like, oh god, alright, this is gonna work out. This movie's gonna work out. My world is gonna be cool now. I'm gonna have a cool life. And also, let's say, you were just smiling. I'm so happy.

Yeah, and Poe is the one who names Finn. He's like, what's your name? Yeah, what's your name? He's FN-2187. Right, and he's like, okay, let's just call you Finn, because you should have a real fucking person name. Crashes, he wakes up in the middle of the desert, doesn't see-

Everyone in this movie has like a one-syllable name. Finn, Poe, Rey, Cox. Like, you know, one, one, one, Ren. Yeah. Crashes, doesn't see Poe anywhere, sees his jacket as the typhoon gets sucked into like a sand pit, which is another classic Star Wars touch of just like things could go wrong anywhere. This is quicksand. The creature's everywhere.

Like shit's just happening. Right. So Finn takes off his stormtrooper armor puts on the resistance jacket and walks for miles and miles and miles and miles across empty desert until he gets to like what seems to be a little village in Jakku yes now let's pull back away from this because um gotta talk about Rey gotta talk about Rey the hero of this movie the lead the lead character in the film the hero of this I'll say they really tricked us. Yep.

Which is good. I like being tricked in this way. Not in the way that Abrams tricked us on Star Trek Into Darkness where the trick we could tell the trick from the beginning. Like we could tell the trick of Star Trek Into Darkness before the script was written. Yes. We were like, they're gonna do Khan. They're lazy.

They're gonna do Khan. That's the second movie. You could tell that was the twist after Star Trek did well the first weekend. Yeah, exactly. The box office returns, you're like, next time, Khan. Right, right. Everyone. And then they're like, we've cast Benedict Cumberbatch as John Harrison. Johnny Smithman.

Fuck you. We've cast him as Whiteman Nobody. Anyway, I hate that movie. Well, and they also did like fucking Benicio Del Toro was originally in talks to play Khan and then when he dropped out

the short list was like four other actors of Hispanic or Latino descent. Yeah, right, right, right. And then they were like, oh, you thought it was Khan but look, we cast a white guy. And everyone's like,

congrats on casting a white guy. Wow. Good job. You whitewashed Khan. 30 years later, yeah, you managed. Fucking Khan's in like the 60s Star Trek, they managed to cast a Latino actor. Now it's like,

have you ever seen a white English actor as a villain? Whoa. Just to throw us off your scent? J.J. Abrams has been appropriately contrite about Star Trek Into Darkness, but I just want to say, fuck Star Trek Into Darkness. It's his worst film. Dumb movie. He'll likely never tank a film that badly. I agree.

And he wrote regarding Henry he wrote Armageddon let's talk about Ray let's talk about Ray sorry sorry that I got on that track anyway

you know in all the advertising I was just like oh Boyega Finn this guy is this guy's the lead and Ray's gonna be

the co-lead who's sort of the tinkerer the pilot you know this sort of foil. It's her movie. It's her movie.

Full stop. Start to finish. Yeah. Front and back. She's your Luke. Yeah. But she's kind of your Han. And she's kind of your Leia.

She's kind of all three in one package. She's got it all, baby. She's one of the most fully rounded characters we've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. You know, I saw someone. I forget who wrote this. So, carry on. Talk about Rey for a second. Well, we first see her, and she's, like, scourging around.

She's like a junk lady. She's, like, collecting... Well, she lives on Jakku, and it seems like life on Jakku... Sucks. And is defined by the fact that this, like, monumental battle happened decades ago. So there are these crashed ships right she's scavenging in a star destroyer pulling little bits out of like a basically hollow star destroyer right she lives in a at-at like in a destroyed at-at yeah and she goes down to the

market every day and like you know trades in these bits for like a measly like ration of food from this sort of CGI merchant character played by Simon Pegg. Yeah. Not my favorite aspect of the movie. Although Pegg's voice is fine. I liked it. Yeah. Some of those creatures I was just like, man, why are you doing CGI here? Like double down.

Well, no, I'll tell you what that creature was. That was a fully practical suit. With like a CGI face. It was a fixed face on set and they did the express. I mean, it was like the Where the Wild Things Are thing. Guess what, buddy? What? No. I liked it. I liked it.

Little detail that I loved. He like, she gives him all the junk she's pulled together and he's like, okay, that's worth half a ration. And he gives her like a packet of powder and she goes home, puts the powder in a plate, pours water on it, turns into bread,

and it's like, that's a crazy future thing. I know. The bread was very cool. In this planet, that's the worst food you could possibly eat. I know, I know, I know. It's so shitty,

it's like green, but we're like, what? Instant bread. I know, I know. It was cool. She eats it in the AT-AT, whatever,

and she's wandering around the desert, and she sees a guy on like a crazy beast with a net trying to capture a little thing. And who is it? It's our main guy, BB-8. So she links up with this guy. She rescues him. She has her first hero moment early on

where the merchant offers her 60 rations for BB-8. Knowing, I think, that this is like a wanted droid. They put out like the BB-8, yeah. And she's like, ah, no, I'm sorry. Don't worry about it. It's like 60 Rations is really appetizing. And once again, like Finn, she makes the human decision. Right.

Like it's implied that even- Abrams is doing some nice myth making here. But even when she sees them trying to capture BB-8, it's like she seems to have an empathy for droids that other characters in the movie do not. Like she seems to recognize that droids have feelings. Yeah. You know?

And we should say BB-8 is the most incredible creation. So cool. As much as he has been leaned on as the toy of the movie, the kind of international star of the movie that everybody's going to love, he rocks. He's real. Yeah. He moves with this sort of real kind of sense of the way his head moves. He's very human. They with this sort of like real kind of sense of like you know the way

his head moves. He's very human. They get a lot of character out of him. He's got a cool sort of different kind of voice. Like you know robot squeaky bloopy bloop voice. Done by quote unquote consultants Bill Hader and Ben Schwartz. But he has like little gadgets pop out but it never goes into

R2. He's got a little shocker. He's got a little blowtorch. It's nothing much. It's a great moment where Finn gives him a thumbs up and then BB-8 shoots out his blowtorch to approximate a thumbs up.

Great. Best moment in the history of cinema. He's got these little sort of wires that he can shoot out to kind of climb stuff. Yeah, he's great. Pretty cool.

He's a great guy. He's great. Love him. Love him. His scenes with Rey are great. Great. They have a great chemistry. So, Rey...

What was I going to say about the BB-8 thing? Rey captures BB-8, gets the rations, turns it down. These are two characters who, when faced with a decision where they could have selfish gain, choose to do the more human thing. Their morality is strong. She doesn't sell BB-8. She's there.

These people are sort of asking, you know, like, he goes like, find the droid, get it no matter what. Yeah. Okay, so Finn has now come into Jakku. Our two heroes are in the same area.

That is the sort of happenstance plotting that we've talked about, right? Yeah. The coincidence-y toy story, original trilogy thing. And I was trying to isolate while watching this. Like, why does it work here, but in the prequels,

everyone shows up at the right place at the right time, and it feels forced. And here's the massive difference, okay? And I think J.J. Abrams identified this so well. In the prequels, they get in a ship, they land, it happens to be at the door, they go in there, there's an enemy right there, they fight them. Right?

Yeah, sure. It's like he's just moving pieces along a board game because he's rolled that number on the die yeah yeah and in the original trilogy there's a lot of coincidence right that two people have to be at the same place but here's the big difference and this movie gets it right there's luck and happenstance that gets the character to that point where they're in that place, but then once they're in that position, they make an active choice that defines them as a character. Okay, go ahead. So Finn is here because that's where he happened to land.

He's on the desert. He's wandering around. He stops at this place because there's a watering hole. He is dehydrated. So he starts souping water up with his hands. There's this big boar creature there, right? Meanwhile, a bunch of thugs are trying to attack Ray and take BB-8, right?

Finn has his back to this. He's just drinking water. Right. But he's drinking so much of it that this boar creature gets annoyed and, like, shoulders him. And when he's shouldered, he's now realigned, so he's looking straight on at Ray. Okay.

Now, it's a coincidence that he was there. It's a coincidence that the boar hit him at that moment. Yeah. But what defines him is that he goes, I need to help that woman. Yeah, well, but then what I love, and I think what everyone's going to love, She's like, don't fucking help me.

Well, he tries to help her. She's already taken care of it. He grabs her arm and says, we got to go because suddenly TIE fighters arrive and it looks like the Empire is, you know, the First Order is about to rout this thing. And she's like, yeah, you don't need to hold my hand. I know how to

run. He keeps on holding her hand, which is so funny. And she keeps being like, dude, like, I don't need you to hold the hand. Like, I can run. You kind of need two hands to run. I think he also just has a crush on her. Of course he does. Who doesn't? She's the greatest. I would like to say this right now. Oh boy.

I'd love to take Daisy really out for dinner. Yeah. I'd love to take Daisy Ridley out for dinner. Yeah, I'd love to take John Boyega out for dinner. Let's do a double date. John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, if you're listening, I am single. David is not. We're both heterosexual. If you want to go out on a date, two of us will take you out. I had a non-speaking role in a national commercial that ran for one month this year.

I could probably pick up the check. Yeah. Does that pay a lot? Yeah. Because, you know, you always hear like some people like, wow, you know, this guy who's in this ad campaign. Yeah. Like he's set for life. And then other people like ads don't actually pay as well as you think they do.

But national does. Right. National is what you need. I think I got paid a stupid amount of money in relation. Considering the work you did. Sure. Yes. right national is what you need i think i got paid a stupid amount of money in relation considering the work you did sure yes i i literally was one of eight faces on screen trying to take a selfie with no dialogue for half a second and a 30 second ad i played a lot for a month and then it was out of date because cell phone technology changes every two days um but my point is i've stowed

that away for a special day and a sock under my bed. Daisy Ridley, if you want to go out for dinner, I'll pay for it with my Samsung money. Cool. Like a pretty nice place. Not like a really, don't push my budget. But I'll like, there's a noodle shop in my neighborhood that's good. We got to move on because I don't even know how long we've done, but holy shit. This episode's going to be five hours long. Daisy Ridley, it doesn't need any help.

Maybe the best joke of the movie, checking the time, maybe the best joke of the entire movie, they're running away, there are explosions happening behind them,

they're now looking for BB-8, they're looking for Finn, the First Order's coming in, you know, the TIE fighters are swinging down and they're like running

and they're like, we need a ship and she's like, there's a quad jumper right there, we can get to it and they're like screaming at each other while they're like running towards it're like we need a ship and she's like there's a quad jumper right there we can get to it and they're like screaming at each other

while they're like running towards it and he's like what about that ship and she's like that's garbage we're not using that quad jumper

quad jumper quad jumper and then they get to the quad jumper and immediately blows up and she goes he goes I guess we're gonna have to use the garbage no no no

I think he doesn't say anything she just says garbage is fine garbage is fine garbage it is then I think she says well it doesn't matter whatever who cares great movie camera garbage is fine. Garbage is fine. Garbage it is then, I think she says. Well, it doesn't matter.

Whatever. Who cares? Great movie. Camera pans over. What is it? It's the Millennium Falcon. You see, I actually, I'm so stupid that I didn't see that coming immediately. I did not see it.

I mean, it happens quickly enough that you don't even really think about it. Yeah. But it's, and the whole audience, that was the first moment where the audience just burst into applause. And it was like involuntary it wasn't even like showing approval it was like because you're gasping you're just like oh my god how well done um I think I just turned to you

and said nice work yeah like I went like good job that was great yeah and they run into this and here it is the Millennium Falcon and if you thought it looked like trash before it's like so beaten down it's real beat up barely works she's never flown it before he's never worked the gun or And if you thought it looked like trash before, it's like so beaten down. It's real beat up. Barely works. She's never flown it before.

He's never worked the gunner on something like this before. It belongs to the ration guy. It belongs to the merchant. He's just going to use it for junk. And they get in. She gets in the cockpit. He gets in the gunner. And they just have this dogfight with the TIE fighters trying to get away from them and get off of Jakku. And she can't sort of make the ship work.

She can't get the hyperdrive to work. I'm going to get into another gripe territory. I don't think the action scenes in this movie are very well done. I think the action's a little flat. I agree. I think that this scene where the Falcon is being chased by the TIE fighters is the best one. Yeah.

And it's because it has kind of the same energy of that first scene where Luke is in the gunner seat where it's like Finn has kind of the same energy of that first scene where Luke is in the gunner's seat. Where it's like Finn is almost just delighted to be even shooting close to these guys. But also neither of them know what they're doing. They've never sat in those chairs before. And so there's like a tension from them figuring it out as they go along. I think all the action beats in this movie are very well written. They have really good story beats in them, you know?

They're not just like shit happening. There's like character moves happening within the beats, and they build, and they have like catharsis and all of that. I just think, and I don't know if it was Disney being scared, if it was him not trusting himself, because I think the action in the original Star Trek is a lot cleaner, but there's a lot of fucking editing. He edits a lot. I do think the action in the original Star Trek is a lot cleaner, but there's a lot of fucking editing. He edits a lot.

I do think the action in Star Trek is cleaner, but it's also Star Trek action, which is these sort of like big boat-like ships. Right. And there's only like two ships at any given time. Usually. So that helps. Yeah. It's fine.

I would- It's not bad. It's kind of interesting. I also wonder if, again, he's trying to pull back from everything the prequels did wrong. One thing the prequels did was have a lot of very busy action. Not quick cut action. Yeah. But just, you know, an overloaded frame with everything you can think of.

Right. You know, what's this? The Falcon being chased by two TIE Fighters. One, two. And we see both TIE Fighters get destroyed. Well, here's my thing. And, like, what's this? The Falcon being chased by two TIE fighters. One, two. And we see both TIE fighters get destroyed. Well, here's my thing. And like, it's the same with the lightsaber fight later, where it's like, there's no flubber. Yeah.

It reminded me, we'll talk about it in a bit, but it reminded me most of the Obi-Wan Darth Vader fight, which is almost like a Kendo fight, where they're just kind of putting as much back into it. Yeah. Well, they're just sort of, you know, hacking away at each other. It's not crazy aerobics.

It's sword fighting. I think the prequel films, he does too much busyness, but shot in a very classical way. Yeah. I think this film, it's classical action sequences shot in too busy a way.

Yeah, I agree. The action is the flattest part of the movie. I want the middle ground, which is the original Star Wars movies. I zoned out slightly during the Maz Katana action sequence. They get a little hard to follow because he's cutting

around so much. There's so much coverage. They lack the big sweeping moment that you want. You don't get those clean iconic images. You don't hold on them. You're not seeing motion within the frame. The motion is established through camera moves and cutting and it's very hard to maintain a sense of spatial geography when that's happening. It makes's a little hard to follow.

You can keep the emotional narrative because the characters are speaking throughout that. You understand what they're going through. The stakes are very clear. It does do that thing we love where it's like every five minutes in the movie

there's a clear objective. Yeah. You know what the characters need to get done. You understand emotionally what it means to them. Characters in this movie are so fucking good.

Yeah. This is the level just to harp on this that he hits it so far out of the park is like our new characters are great performances. Oh yeah,

that's what I was calling up. I forgot about this. Dan Coyce, I think his name is, I don't know how you say his last name, K-O-I-S. Oh yeah.

We follow each other on Twitter. We're good friends on Twitter. Slate, Ryder, great, great guy,

love him. Wrote an article saying this is the first Star Wars movie without a single bad performance. Agreed. He's not wrong.

There's one, we'll do a quick performance review.. Agreed. He's not wrong. There's one. We'll do a quick performance review. Wait, who don't you like? There's one I think is okay. Okay, we'll do a performance review. Oh, I liked her. I know. And there's one that you said you weren't crazy about.

We'll talk about it at the end of the episode. Okay, okay. I think we both had one that we had reservations about. But nonetheless, like everyone's doing a good job. A lot of pros. Yeah, and the characters are all really well written. At Bubble House, they are human. We've been going for an hour, and we haven't even mentioned Han Solo's arrival yet. It's crazy.

But I will say, the first act of this film is the best act of the film. It is the most, it's like most of the myth-making and storytelling and table-setting is happening here and it's the slowest part of the movie and the least plot, you know, centric, you know, least, you know, least Star Wars-y. You know, it's just stuff. It's characters doing stuff. We left out one part.

No, no, because this is important. I guess it's a special little. For fucking crying out fucking loud. This is the podcast awakens. People are waiting for this. We got to go long. Go ahead. Go ahead.

What is it? I don't know how well, how directly it's highlighted here, how much more it comes into play later. But the key to Rey as a character is her family left her on Jakku. Yeah. In this AT-AT, she's like marking off the days, how many days she's been alone. And she just will not leave Jakku

because she believes they're going to come back for her someday. Right. And so when she gets caught off in this adventure, she's immediately kind of like, I shouldn't be away from this one. What if my parents come back right now? She doesn't even ever say parents. Or maybe she says it once. She says family.

Family. But, like, yeah, we just know she's like that kid who, like, has been telling herself a lie so long it's become true. Where it's like, ah, my parents are coming back, though. So, you know, she's like the kid in the foster home or the group home who's like, yeah, you're all orphans, but my parents, they just went on a mission and they have to return. And this is the thing I like.

We said this last night, but I don't really count Anakin because he's, you know, in Phantom Menace, not the main character. This is the first Star Wars movie where when I was seeing it for the first time, the heroes are younger than I am. Yeah. And I like that the two main heroes in this film,

Finn and Rey, are self-sufficient. They've had to learn how to become adults in weird circumstances, but they also are very childlike in certain ways. And so Finn has been trained, this and that, but he's also just kind of a scared little boy who wants everyone to think that he's like a grown up and Rey is like actually

self sufficient fucking does it all on her own but still is like but my mommy's going back right so they're on the millennium I agree with you so they're on the millennium falcon yes quickly things start to go wrong they get tractor beamed into a big sort of like freight ship right

and here's what I like about this scene. Yeah. Apart from that introduces Han Solo and Chewbacca. Yeah. Who are good characters. Spoiler alert. That I like. Spoiler alert.

Is that Rey and Finn are like, I know what we'll do. We'll put this doohickey in the engine and that'll flood it with poison. Yeah. Because they think it's a stormtrooper or whatever. We'll hide under the gray. It's going to be space pirates trying to kill us. They're doing all this business. Han and Chewie come in and briefly are like,

oh, Jesus, are they going to flood this room with poison gas and they were going to have to deal with all that? Yeah. And Han and Chewie come in. They have their moment.

We're home. It was from the trailer. And immediately they're like, hey, what are you doing? They just lift up the grate and they're like, who are you kids? I'm Han Solo.

You can't trick me. Needs to be said, just right off the bat, Harrison Ford is great in this movie this is his best work in years agree he's so awake and alive

although I will say I didn't see the age of Adeline and I heard some people liked him in that yeah and I defend Morning Glory but he's yeah but Morning Glory

is an excuse for him to give a lazy performance agreed like because his character is supposed to be giving a lazy performance. Someone who doesn't give a shit anymore. So, it's sort of a weird workaround.

You can tell. Movies like Cowboys and Aliens. Yeah. And others recently that we have suffered through, like Ender's Game. Yeah. Or, I don't know, what's another one? You know, even Crystal Skull. They're heartbreaking to watch.

He just seems a little detached. And he's like in it. He's having a blast in this movie. Abrams is a good actor's director. Great actor. He always has been. Yeah. He's one of the best

finders of talent in Hollywood. He's also really good at juggling an ensemble. He is. He's good at developing each character well. We're talking about the guy who found Jennifer Garner.

Yep. You know, who found half that lost cast. Yep. You know, who found half that lost cast. Yep. You know, he's, Kerry Russell. Kerry Russell,

I was going to say, yeah. You know, Greg Grunberg, just kidding. But, you know, who is in this movie,

infuriatingly. Yeah. There are, like, every time Abrams dropped a reference to his annoying, like, and I love J.J. Abrams,

but his annoying, like, canon of shit, like, there's a Kelvin Ridge reference in there. Oh, yeah.

I was like, J.J., back off. This is Star Wars. There's no slusho shit, at least. No slusho. No red ball. Yeah. So Han Solo immediately sees through it. Yeah.

And is just like, you know, what are you guys doing? I'm fucking Han Solo. I am Han Solo. They're like, you're Han Solo? Yeah, they're like, you're the rebel general. Like, that's who you are? And then Rey's like, no, you idiot. The smuggler.

The famous smuggler. Yeah, they both have different reference points for him. Because he was probably trained to know Han Solo as an enemy. Yeah, rebel, rebel, bad rebel man. Right. And she's hearing just like- He's like the badass. He did the Kessel Run in 14 parsecs and he's like 12.

God damn it. Yeah, which is great. But she's like hearing like the street level did the Kessel run in 14 parsecs and he's like 12 god damn it yeah which is great but she's like hearing like the street level talk about like who Han Solo is yeah and immediately you can tell he kind of likes these two kids it's true it's true and they're like so you did all this that Luke Skywalker all of this and he's like alright

because they tell him that BB-8 has the map to Luke Skywalker and they and so we just get just a little bit of Han Solo's melancholy where he's like, yeah, I knew Luke. Yeah. I mean, he's not even upset about it. He's just like, yeah. It's all true. All that shit was real. I used to think it was bullshit, but it's true.

Just then, knock, knock, knock. A rapid tap, tap at the door. Who is it? Space Pirates. This is, I would say, the worst part of the film. Agreed. Not terrible, but not good.

Not good. Some people were comparing it to saying it's the most prequel-y part of the movie. Sure. I think it's just very Abrams. Yeah. Because there are these

random creatures that Han Solo's supposed to be smuggling that are just like fucking rejects from the Cloverfield pile. Yeah. They're just like

teeth tentacle things. Or that snow creature from Star Trek, the just like teeth tentacle things or that snow creature from star trek the first star trek yeah or that snow creature from the second star trek i bet there was one or the monster from super 8 he designs monsters in a very similar way all the other creatures in this film look like star wars and creatures and in this this is like this is like a jj creature anyway a bunch of british pirates come on cool bad guy enforcers and a bunch of actors from the raid come on, do no stunts whatsoever. Who was the Scottish or whatever guy? Didn't know, but I liked him.

Yeah. I mean, I didn't like this sequence. I think the idea is like, Han, he's up to his smuggler ways again. Oh, he's got everyone on the go. And that's kind of cute where he's like playing them off of each other. But then just a bunch of shit occurs and it's just an excuse for them to get in the Falcon and get out kind of cute where he's like playing them off of each other but then just a bunch of shit occurs

and it's just an excuse for them to get in the Falcon and get out of there. Which they do. So whatever. Whatever. I don't really want to dwell on that scene. It's not good. I don't remember where it happens in the chronology of the film but at one point a underling comes up to Kylo Ren and tells him

that the girl and the droid got away and he like takes a deep breath and takes out his the girl and the droid got away. And he like takes a deep breath and takes out his lightsaber and just like cuts up the wall like a computer console. He says the droid got away. Ren cuts up the wall with his lightsaber, throws a tamper tantrum. Right, right. Like a little baby.

Then the guy's like, he was with a girl and Kylo Ren just pulls him over with a force and is like, girl! Yeah. So two levels of, you know. Yes. So let's talk about Kylo Ren just pulls him over with the force and is like girl! So two levels of you know. So let's talk about Kylo Ren. But he also much like Finn and Rey is like a child. He's a child who's trying to be

seen as an adult. And who's in the shadow of these movies. Of these original movies. I don't remember when it happens. Let's talk about Kylo Ren. When is it revealed? It's about 40 minutes into the movie. Around this time. General Hux played by Donald Gleeson and Kylo Ren, go to report to Supreme Leader Snowe. Kylo Ren does not seem to be part of the First Order proper.

He seems to be like someone they hire on, you know, to help them with it because they have similar interests. You know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of thing. Yeah. But Donald Gleeson is directly, you know, both of them seem to be taking direct orders from Snowe. This is my least favorite thing in the movie. This is your least favorite?

Oh, Snow. Yes. Mine too. The stakes are high for this character, and they whiffed. Ben will love it. He's big. He's really big.

At least he's projected as big. Well, that's the dumb twist. I didn't think it was dumb. I thought it was fine. They walk into a room. There's a guy who's like 70,000 feet tall sitting on a 70,000 foot throne. He looks like a very nondescript CGI motion capture thing. Yeah.

In interviews, Andy Serkis had said, Andy Serkis plays Snoke. And people were like, oh, J.J. Abrams is selling the practical essence of the film. Why is this character going to be motion captured? And people were like, oh, J.J. Abrams is selling the practical essence of the film. Why is this character going to be motion captured? And he was like, I think when you see the character, you'll understand why physically it couldn't be done with makeup and prosthetics. Right. Nope. I don't see that. Don't even see why it had to be done with CGI.

No. Now, I did read that this character's design was settled on late in the process. Would not be surprised. Because I think they just went through a lot of stuff. Yeah. They settled on a very the process. Would not be surprised. Because I think they just went through a lot of stuff. They settled on a very generic look. He's this sort of bald, scarred, weird sort of baby looking freak. One of his ears is missing.

He's missing a big chunk of his cheek. But they could have done that as CGI augmentation. He looks like, what's the kid in the Goonies? The kid in the Goonies? You're talking about Chunk? Yeah, sort of. I had an analogy last night that I was really proud of I think he looks like the Voldemort

on the back of Professor Quirrell's head in the original Harry Potter it's just because it's featureless almost it's sort of nondescript and it also feels like a placeholder kind of thing in the same way that for the first Harry Potter we'll get to it later we just need to invoke an idea but I remember hearing rumors

that Snoke was going to be like a fucking snake and shit like that. So he's a big guy, and he's a hologram that is bigger. We've only ever seen holograms that are tiny, and now he's a big hologram. Ben will love it. But he's just kind of visually bland and not really well explained. I would have liked a little more Snoke or a little more fleshing out of Snoke. But the big thing he drops... And it's he who drops it?

It's he who drops it. And he mentions it offhandedly because they all know. He just mentions it as part of a sentence. They go, they're with your father, Han Solo. That's where the twist is revealed. It's amazing.

This movie's already leaving me. Okay, crazy. It's also like 50 minutes into the movie. We just like stiffened up. Yeah. Because like, congratulations, Abrams. It's amazing. This movie's already leaving me. Okay, crazy. It's also like 50 minutes into the movie. We just stiffened up. Because congratulations, Abrams, you did it. You kept that completely in the dark. You and I turned to each other and we're like, did I just hear that right?

We were just like, okay, okay. That's how I felt. I was like, alright, alright. Just keep moving. The movie doesn't take any time to land that punch and deal with the reverberations. It just keeps moving. It is the puzzle piece to this world that Abrams has decided on which is this world where the three main characters are

sort of scattered to the winds. And it's that Luke unseen in this movie until the very end Luke was trying to train a new order of Jedi's and Han and Leia's kid turn to the dark side. This kid you you know,

Ben is his name. Yeah. And that tragedy, which is a seismic tragedy, is what kind of like put them all in their own direction. So Han goes back to being a smuggler, kind of haunted by it.

Leia just like burrows down as like a general in the resistance and Luke goes off to try and find the first Jedi temple on some sort of, you know, vision quest. Essentially, he just doesn't want to fucking. He's like, well, look at how much damage I've cost. You know how much I hurt my best friend and my sister.

I don't want to be doing this anymore. Hello, Ren is a great character. Great performance by Adam Driver. Immediately, the challenge tantrum makes sense where it's like this is a guy really at odds with himself and who lives in the shadow of darth vader he's obsessed with darth vader his grandfather and princess leia and kind of luke skywalker yeah um i think there is but like talk about three movies lucas had to make an impetuous yep uh privileged you know, sort of Jedi burdened by the weight of expectation. Blew it, blew it, blew it.

Adam Driver kills it. Yeah, but the character's also very well written and very well conceived. The character's well written, but well cast. Oh, he kills it. Because Adam Driver has been having tantrums on girls for years. He throws a great tantrum.

But this is a different tenor of tantrum, you know? Yeah, for sure. It's got a different texture to it, and it's unnerving. He is scarier because of how human he is and how foiable he is and how scared he is, you know? Yeah. Like, and there's the moment where he's talking to the Darth Vader helmet. I mean, they reveal it as the Darth Vader helmet. But he's essentially, like, the biggest Darth Vader nerd in the world.

And he's, like, talking to the helmet about how scared he is that he feels being pulled to the light side. Right, he's essentially like the biggest Darth Vader nerd in the world. And he's like talking to the helmet about how scared he is that he feels being pulled to the light side. He's struggling with it. He's like, just let me out of this. I don't want to be a fucking good guy. I think this movie, this is a very meta movie. And, you know, I agree with what J.D. Amato said when he was on this podcast, that like every film is in some way about the person who made it.

You know, every film is kind of autobiographical. It's about the filmmaker. And I think this movie is these three characters are so defined by their relation to what has come before in this galaxy. That this is a movie about like trying to understand the weight of what Star Wars is in our culture. Because like 30 years have passed, 40 years have passed. And these kids are like coming to terms with what happened before they were born and trying to continue the legacy.

And he feels like his legacy is to continue being Darth Vader. There needs to be a Darth Vader in the world. You know? And Finn is trying to figure out where he fits within the Stormtrooper. I mean, it's really smart right now. I mean, the way Han and Leia put it is like he had too much Vader in him.

That's like their sort of, or at least that's Han's rationalization. Well, it's also the sins of the father thing. Like, every child inherits the good and the bad of their parents, and you can't tell which side's gonna win out, you know? And this is writ large. The bad is thoroughly evil,

not just like, he's you know a little emotionally disconnected but like this movie is setting the same vague arc in motion for Kylo Ren which is like a possible redemption it's the yes it is you know like

I'm not saying like that's absolutely where the movie has to be pointed towards we don't know but it feels like Leia certainly is convinced like he's not lost to us forever. We could get him back. And I get chills just thinking about the directions they could go with this character in the next two movies. Who knows where they're going, but I play out in my mind some of the possibilities, and they're all equally exciting.

Yeah, I agree. I love Kylo Ren. He's a great fucking character. Cool character. Like the way you can hear Driver's voice even in the modulation when he's got the helmet on.

I like that he's an unscarred, you know, he's no Vader. Vader wore that mask for a reason. You're not quite sure why Kylo Ren wears his mask. He's obsessed with Darth Vader.

Except, right. He's a Star Wars nerd and he wants to be as cool as the Star Wars characters. Someone tweeted today, but he's very much, I feel like that is a character of our time. He feels very much like a Gamergate kind of guy.

I guess so. He's this guy with a sort of impotent rage. He's angry at the world. He's angry at the world and he has no good reason to be. Except like this sort of vague thing he latches onto which is like well Darth Vader was my grandfather.

And the fact that Darth Vader had that much power had more power than anyone ever had is the most appealing thing to him. He just wants to be powerful and he wants to be respected. The biggest mystery that needs to be clarified and I assume will be a part of these later movies is like what role does Snoke play in this? Is he an important

one? Is he like the Emperor to you know, Ren's bigger? Yeah. And like how's that going to play out and can it play out differently? I thought there was going to be a Snoke twist and there wasn't. They just leave him very big. There wasn't. Perhaps there's some. I mean I'll say Abrams is a mystery box guy he puts a lot of mysteries in a box he doesn't let most of them out. I will say also I just had a mystery box guy. He puts a lot of mysteries in a box. He doesn't let most of them out.

I will say also, I just had a disassociative moment where I just was like, oh, right, we've seen this movie and we're talking about it. Yeah, it's crazy. This isn't speculation. Because I had in my head. We speculated. I mean, and people on the internet speculated for so long about this fucking movie. Well, you were saying to me that you were so surprised by Kylo being Han's son because you hadn't even thought of it. I hadn't even thought of it. And I said, I've thought of it because I've thought of every single option,

but because I thought through everything that could happen, I was equally surprised. I had made an effort not to think too hard, I'll admit. I thought way too hard about it. But every time a scene happened in the movie, I was crossing six scenes off the list, which was surprising to me, you know? There was so much about Luke.

Why aren't we seeing Luke? Where's Luke? Why isn't Luke in this? Like, where is he in the promotional material? Because that's what he's about. He's the MacGuffin. And the thing is, yeah, he's literally, there are two shots of Luke,

one of his hand in a dream that Rey has, and then his face right at the end. Well, so let's get to that. That's the next part of the film. They go down to a bar run by Maz Kaneda. Yeah, so Han Solo leads them over to this bar. He's like, I know someone who can help. We'll figure shit out.

Maz is, so this bar is like's like, we'll figure shit out. Maz is... So this bar is like a Mos Eisley Cantina analog. Yeah. Maz is kind of like a chirpy old lady version of Yoda, I guess. I'd say she's like Yoda meets Bea Arthur's character from the Holiday Special. Yeah, I think that her closest analog is Bea Arthur's character in the Holiday Special. Tune in next week to hear us discuss Bea Arthur's performance in Star Wars, the Holiday Special. Maybe my second favorite character in the holiday special. Tune in next week to hear us discuss B. Arthur's performance in Star Wars, the holiday special. Maybe my

second favorite performance in the Star Wars universe. It's probably my favorite performance given in a film. Yeah, probably. Maybe my favorite character ever. Maybe my favorite thing about us as a human race. Yeah, I'd say my favorite thing

that has ever happened in my life was getting to watch that performance. Yeah. Anyway, that's who she's sort of playing. And she looks a lot like my grandmother. It needs to be said. Maz Kaneda looks and moves a lot like my dead grandmother. It was a little unnerving to me.

My grandmother was also tiny. She wore a lot of bangles and bracelets and then had tiny eyes and oversized glasses. Maz Kaneda has these goggles that she has toggles and she adjusts them to make her eyes bigger or smaller. At one point, she flips away and her eyes are microscopic. That reminds me of my grandma, Rozzy, who is dead. R-I-P, Rozzy. She died in 2004.

Right after I saw Spider-Man 2. I got the news. I'm sorry. It was the best of times. I got the news. I'm sorry. It was the best of times. It was the worst of times. Anyway. Maz Kaneda. Kanada?

Kaneda? Kaneda. Played by Academy Award winner Lupita Nyong'o. Great actress. I like this performance. You didn't so much. Or you were okay with it. We'll talk about it.

Yeah, we'll talk about it later. She sees right through everything. She's like a thousand years old. She's got these goggles that are like peepers. You know, she can kind of like, I mean, the way the movie very vaguely pokes it is she's no Jedi, but she's almost like Force goggles.

Like she can just sort of see the Force. She knows shit. It's a lot like the His Dark Materials books where like, I don't know if you've read them, but where like dust, which is the sort of magical transitive thing, kind of settles around people. And I just assume she just, you know, she's kind of picking up on Aura.

She's sort of like a horny crystal lady. She's got a real crush on Chewbacca. Oh, she loves it. She calls him my boyfriend. Which was my favorite part of her appearances in these movies. And I hope she comes back, and I assume she will. She will, definitely. And because like she has Luke Skywalker's lightsaber, and Han Solo's like, where the fuck did you get that?

Which is a good question because the last we saw it, it was on Cloud City. Well, she also immediately identifies Finn and she's like, I can see through you. You're scared and you're running. And he drops the act. There's the great moment where Finn is trying to sell, this happens

earlier, we skipped over this, where Finn is trying to sell to Han Solo who he is the illusion and he's like I'm kind of a big deal and he's like okay big deal and he says but women are

he's like can I give you one piece of advice yeah and so like Han Solo like sees himself I think in Finn

calls him out on it but he's still lying to Rey and he like comes clean at this moment he does because Maz can see through him right and he's like I'm a stormtrooper.

I'm not a resistance fighter. I'm not supposed to be here. I just need to... She sees through him, but the thing is, the central point of this scene is that the lightsaber calls out to Rey. She hears an echo.

She goes down to the basement. She gets it, and she has these visions, which I need to see the movie again to just sort of like get a little more of a crystal clear sense of what she's seeing. They're very dense. Herself being abandoned. She sees a flash of Luke with his robot arm touching R2 and rain and like a showdown with

Kylo Ren. Like she sees a lot of stuff. Yeah. It terrifies her. She runs away. It's the refusal of the call. Maz Kaneda is like, that lightsaber called to you. Yeah.

She's like, it's you. It's you. Called to two people people before you need to take that and she's like i'm not fucking touching that thing ever again yeah sorry buddy you are yeah but um so but like it's the refusal of the call yeah ray's out of there yeah and then she gets sucked up by the invading imperial force we you know we don't even really need to talk about it the first daughter shows up and kind of fucks it up does that happen yeah so she doesn't meet Leia at that point in the movie? No, Leia's not on Maskinata's thing. When she lands her ship. Leia?

Yeah. That's the scene where they- Leia is there. Right. She doesn't meet Leia, though, because Leia's like- She only meets Leia later? It doesn't matter. Come on.

Yeah, we need to see this movie again. But Finn gets the lightsaber. Which is kind of weird. Maz Kaneda's like, alright, well you take it. Someone should take it. I think she just sort of knows it'll end up in the right spot. I think Maz Kaneda's been around the block. She understands how shit works. Finn's like, I'm getting out of here.

The call is being refused at this point. Han Solo literally saying to them, work with me. I like you kids. And they're both like, I don't know. We don't know if we want to be the leads in a new Star Wars movie. Finn's like, I just got to get out of here. We don't know if we can carry that. Well, after being so excited about being leads in the, because, like, the scenes in the Falcon

earlier are them being like, I can't believe it. We're in a Star Wars movie. But they're like, maybe they're calling our bluff. Yeah, now they're like, oh, shit's getting real. Overseas box office, you know, has built in pre-established names. We don't know if we're going to do well in those territories. So Finn is like, you know, Maskinade is like, hey, I know some guys who are leaving. You can hitch a ride with them.

Yeah. And Rey just sort of runs off with BB-8. And there in the forest, she runs into Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren, who freezes her in the same way. And he's like, you have the information I need. Yeah. You're coming with me. Yeah.

So he takes her. BB-8 rolls away. BB-8 rolls away. Hooks back up with everyone else. Right. Yeah. You're coming with me. Yeah. So he takes her. BB-8 rolls away. BB-8 rolls away. Hooks back up with everyone else. Right, right. So, right. So this is what happens. So these are,

I think this is where people who are complaining about this movie start to be like, all right, everything's a little convenient. My problem is I don't care. That's how Star Wars works. I don't care.

If the movie works and I'm watching it, I don't care. So, right. Rey gets kidnapped. BB-8 rolls away. Finds Finn, Han Solo, and Chewbacca

who are in the forest when a ship lands, and who gets off that ship but General Leia Organa. Carrie Fisher. Giving what I'll call right now my favorite performance in the movie. She's terrific. She doesn't have a ton of screen time. She's got a good amount.

No, it's fine. She comes in late, but once she comes in, she's got a good amount. I was so astonished by, the first thing is, Jesus Christ. Like, you talk about dust, you talk about force aura. The fucking chemistry between Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher is just like some weird energy source that has not diminished at all. The second they come on screen and they're in the same frame together, it's just silence. She gets off the ship, They look at each other. And the whole audience gets chills because it's like, ooh, this is a sexy couple.

They're old. They're gray. But they're a fucking sexy couple. Yeah. And there's a lot unresolved. But we understand what sort of drove them apart. And she loves him. They're sharing this moment.

And then what happens, of course, immediately pokes his head in. On game, JJ. It's a very fun game. Of all the introductions of past characters, it's the most on point. Oh, Mr. Solo. Yeah.

I don't know if you recognize me because of my red arm. Yeah. Great joke. I think it was a great joke because it's never explained again. He's got a red arm. I don't know.

Right. Great joke. But he's obviously very hung up on his red arm because he's always hung up on his appendages. Yeah. Han and...

And this is the first performance. This is the first real performance Carrie Fisher has delivered since I don't even know when. That's why I was so surprised. She's been in movies, but usually little movies or the small cameos. Family Therapist and Austin Powers or The Nun and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. I can't remember the last time. I mean, it might be like... When Harry Met Sally?

When Harry Met Sally. When Harry Met Sally. Yeah. That's why I was so impressed. She has like a decent part in Drop Dead Fred. Okay. But, you know, yeah. I mean,

she gives little cameos all the time. That's it. She, you know, was a great actress, but in the last 20 years has mostly reinvented herself as like a novelist,

you know. A humorist. A humorist. humorous writer you know a screenplay did a broadway one woman show drinking right but sort of made herself more of like a a humor personality yeah and an advocate for electroshock therapy right yeah i remember remember she was on craig ferguson once it was like obviously really trying to because craig ferguson is this fellow recovering alcoholic trying to really get him into it. And Craig Ferguson was very obviously like,

yeah, I'm not going to do this. Let's not talk about this. She's like, Craig, it's great. Yeah. Anyway, she's great in that episode of 30 Rock. Yes. But this is the first time we've seen her take on like a real meaty role.

And you immediately like are... When Carrie Fisher goes on like the Today Show with her dog and is fucking razor sharp and super funny for 10 minutes. She's the best. Maybe the best interview in the history of television. She's the best. You're like, oh, man, Princess Leia really was a long time ago. Like, this woman is lifetimes beyond that.

It's true. And so you go, is she going to be able to capture the same spirit of Princess Leia? And she totally does. The second she walks on screen, you go, this isn't Carrie Fisher. This is Princess Leia. She's older and wiser, but she also feels like she has less to prove. You know, she's not giving like, you know, I mean, Princess Leia in the first like two movies especially is like, fuck you to everybody because everyone undervalues her.

Right. No one takes her seriously. Right. And in this, she's General Leia Organa. She doesn't have anything to prove. She just fucking is. And her banter with Han is immediately amazing. I'm coming everywhere.

Everywhere. There were complaints in the theater. Complaints? Yeah, because I was coming too much. I also, I should mention, went to the movie Dressed as Watto. You did? I was dressed as Watto. You did? I was dressed as Watto. You looked great.

I looked great. So they're talking. They explain the whole situation. And they're like, we're going to help you find that girl. You got a new girl? We're going to help you find that girl. Yeah, I think they keep doing this thing where Han is like talking about Rey or about to talk about Rey.

They do it with Maz Katana and I think Makedana and they do it with Leia where they cut away before he actually says anything about her. Yeah. I think to dangle some mystery.

Sure. They go like, who's this girl? And then they cut away and shit like that. And because like, could Rey be like Luke's kid? I really hope not.

You know, who knows? I'd be really happy if she has no relation. And the fact that they don't show who her parents are. So we were talking about this afterwards. There is that flashback when she touches the lightsaber and you see her as a little girl crying and being held back by the Simon Pegg character as the ship leaves and her parents leave, right? Yeah.

She is young, but she is old enough that she would remember her parents, remember what they look like, her parents leave, right? Yeah. She is young, but she is old enough that she would remember her parents, remember what they looked like, who they were, right? She's like five, maybe. And so I don't think her parents are anyone she meets within the movie. And she is such a fan of the Luke Skywalker lore, Han Solo as a smuggler.

She knows the Star Wars stories, but if it was any of those people, she would know that. My hope is her parents will be revealed in a future film to be new characters who have an important place in the galaxy. Yeah, I think it's going to be Luke. I really hope it is. Yeah, I think it's like Luke put her in someone else's arms as much as he was put in someone's arms.

And then those people left her? Yes. I think that's so convoluted. I hope it's new characters. I really hope they don't do that. We'll see. Really hope they don't. Anyway, we've talked for a long time. Yeah. I think we've talked about everything we love

about this movie. Finn was gonna get on the ship with the other people and is like, no, I'm a fucking, I'm a hero now. He makes a decision to go get Rick. Right. They get back to the base. He's motivated to go get Rick. He sees Poe Dameron again. He's like, hey, how you doing, buddy? Keep my jacket.

You're great. He's like, looks good on you. And everyone's like, he keeps on confessing to people from this point on that he's a stormtrooper with shame, and they're like,

that's great. Thank you. You're here now. You chose to be a good guy, and you get to help us out now. It doesn't matter where you were born. It matters what you choose to be.

Then there's this scene. A hero can come from anywhere. I'll say, as a fan of cinema, I felt with Superfluous, there's this 20-minute wedding scene between me and Poe Dameron. Yeah, that was, yes. Then I enter the film and I am married to Poe Dameron in a moving wedding ceremony that obviously was the highlight of my life. Right, and there is that 45-minute section where I take Daisy Ridley out to noodles in my neighborhood

and have a really tough time making eye contact with her. And she interprets that as me not being interested. But it's actually because I'm so interested that I can't function. And then the next six months are us having weird conversations. And then like it comes to like five years later and we admit that we both had a crush on each other at the time, but we couldn't act upon it. All right, Griffin. How you doing? Good. The movie's great. Great movie. Anyway, Code Cameron, he's back. He's not dead. The movie like kind of pretends he's dead. The movie's great. Great movie. Anyway, he's back.

He's not dead. The movie kind of pretends he's dead. He's not dead. Yeah. You know, there's a character, Merchandise Spotlight, there's a character named Constable Zuvio

who is all over the toys. They made him in multiple sizes, six inch and a three and a three quarter inch and a lot of him. And he's wearing sort of like robes and then he's got like a cone hat and a weird alien eye and his face is covered

by like a scarf, right? Uh-huh. And like the bio on the back of the toys because when the movie wasn't coming out you read the bio that's all you had to go off of

was like Constable Zuvio is a law enforcer who patrols Jakku and chases our heroes. This character is not in the movie. I think he has one scene. No.

No? He, in the flashback of Rey as a little girl, you see him in silhouette. When she touches the lightsaber, you see him in silhouette. He's not in the film. Okay. There are theories that there was a sequence or two

shot in the movie of Poe when he crashes somewhere different, being chased by this guy. Anyway, that's all cut. All cut. But we just figure it out. He was thrown from the TIE fighter and he made it back. Yeah.

Anyway. From this point on, I mean, it's like classic Star Wars movie. It is. It's almost a little too classic. We'll hit the basic, the big thing that we have to talk about. But like, once again, they identify within Starkiller Base. It's honestly the only big thing because, oh, we didn't even talk about it. Starkiller base is like Death Star 6.

No, but we should talk about, yes, Starkiller base is their death weapon. That's fine. But it blows up the Republic. Yeah. Which is a decision that I've already heard some people are a little upset about because it is done so. Quickly. Quickly, it's tossed off. Yeah.

quickly it's tossed off and it's Abrams making this choice of like look this movie is not about a stable time and it's not about like the republic and the politics of the republic so there won't be a republic basically fine but you've got

nothing in this moment it's not a good moment it's not a good moment the Starkiller base thing sucks it shoots shoots from so far away. There's no sense of destruction, really. And it's like, oh, it shoots six beams instead of one. Fucking sucks. There was an interview with J.J. Abrams where they were like, so you're doing another Death Star?

And he's like, I think when you see the movie, you're going to see it's totally different. It's like, oh, it's bigger and it shoots six things instead of one. And the movie has a joke where they're like, it's just the Death Star. And they're like, no, here's the Death Star.ger and it shoots six things. And the movie has a joke where they're like, it's just the Death Star. And they're like, no. Here's the Death Star. Calls up holograph.

Here's Starkiller base. Much bigger hologram. It's like a cherry next to a watermelon. And you're like, great. Uh-huh. We get it. It's bigger. And then Han Solo's sort of like, well, I don't know. We blow it up.

There's always some way to blow it up. And they're immediately like, here's its weak point right here. We'll figure it out. I like that when they showed the diagram of how to blow it up, it was the same kind of classic wireframe like computer animation to be like oh this is just how like military strategists visualize their plans is just with like wireframe 1977 yeah yeah cgi yeah um but they find the one spot yeah but it is literally like his crew pose like great we'll hit that spot we need the shield to go down and wait finn's like got it i can bring down your shield just like on end or you know without saying it hanso's like, great, we'll hit that spot. We need the shield to go down. And Finn's like, got it, I can bring down your shield just like on Endor,

but without saying it. Han Solo's like, cool, we're going to do it. I already have a plan. Let's go, let's go. Let's bundle everyone into their ships. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Let's bundle ourselves up

in some warm winter coats. Leia's like, remember Star Wars when I was watching the action from the base? That's what we're going to do right now. 3PO's going to be next to me griping. Like, eh.

This is the stuff that I do think, like eh, you know but it's fun when you're watching it, if you break it apart now and you're viewing it under the microscope I just wish, like, the dog fighting was a little better, it's fine the action isn't great

there's this sort of half-hearted trench run sequence hmm best thing is that Admiral Ackbar is there Ackbar is there Nian Nun is there yep Ken Leung

Ken Leung is there you were very excited I love him I love him too but you were like is that Ken Leung and I was like Griffin shut up

I don't care Ken Leung he's also very recognizable yeah but he was out of focus at that point we forgot a big thing R2-D2 is on the base he is on standby

mode what are you writing uh i'm looking up something but go ahead r2d2 is on standby mode and uh they're like uh what's this and they're like oh c3 is like r2d2 he's been on standby mode forever people are very annoyed about this they say it's a literal deus ex machina because he's a machine. They're like, they're not going to wake you up. Oh, because when they, they take the flash drive

out of BB-8 when they get to the base and they project the map to Luke Skywalker and they're like, this isn't the whole map, this is a piece of a map. Someone else has

the piece of the map and someone even says like, you think R2-D2 has it? And they're like, probably not and also he's asleep. I don't have a problem with this scene.

You do, everyone else seems to, I don't care. It's like, the idea is like, I think of it as like R2D2 is playing the same function he always has yeah he's a step ahead of everyone else and he's waiting until the right moment to deploy his information you know what I mean yes like R2 is like

I need for the people to show up the people the people Ray Finn whoever the people and then I'll wake people. The people. Rey, Finn, whoever. The people. And then I'll wake up and lead them to Luke. I'm fine with that. What I don't like is there's literally a line where C-3PO says, like, but I don't think he has the map. Like, if they had said, like, we don't know. We can't wake him up.

Maybe he has it. But for them to be like, he probably doesn't have it, is them just being, like, trying to send us on, like, a red herring of a red herring you know yeah don't like that um trench run poe dameron and his team including greg grumberg um don't even want to talk about it no it sort of sucks when they're cutting to all the different pilots it's like oh we have an asian woman we have a black man we have aliens we have a fat guy with a beard it's more it's much more diverse for sure the jedi there's a black guy there We have aliens. We have a fat guy with a beard. It's more it's much more diverse. There's a black guy. There's an Asian guy.

This is much more diverse. I don't care. Even background the base. Important. You don't care? No I don't care. The trench run is a disaster. It's the worst part and it's a disaster that they don't give Poe Dameron a hero moment. Yeah it just feels like an inevitable. The only thing I like is black

leader. He's black squadron. Oh sure. Too long has black been associated with just like an inevitable the only thing I like is black leader he's black squadron oh sure too long has black been associated with just like you know the bad guys or whatever yeah and his x-wing is black it's cool cool the stuff with Finn and Chewie and Han is cool he reveals that he was a

sanitation guy that he doesn't know what he's doing and then they invade the base. He puts Phasma in a garbage compactor. They try to find Ray. Oh, most important scene in the entire film.

Ray is like tied to a torture thing. Did you hear about who played the stormtrooper in this? Yes. Kylo Ren was trying to get information out of her.

She wouldn't give up. He had another tantrum. She's like, why don't you take off your mask? He takes off his mask. You see his face. M. Driver gives a great performance. Right, and he tries to tap into her brain, and of course, as we've already guessed,

she sort of is just naturally blessed with the Force. She's Force-sense. And resists him. Yeah. And then not long later, uses her first Force power, Daniel Craig, to get a Stormtrooper played by Daniel Craig,

uncredited, to free her. Great scene. But it's a great scene because it doesn't work. She goes like, you're going to free me from this and leave the door open. Tighten the restraints, damn it. She just stays calm and says it four times

until it finally works. And she's out, she's on her own trying to get through. Finn dismantling the shields. They're like, great. Oh, but what about Rey? We're going to have gonna have to save ray and han solo's like look over your fucking shoulder kid and ray's just like climbing a wall boom and they don't need to save her yeah and they're like hey and she's like hey and then they have this moment and other they're like what are you doing

here and they're like we came we came back here for you she's very happy you're our friend and in other movies and lesser movies it feels like they would kiss at this moment because they are a boy and a girl, and they're both good-looking, charismatic kids, and that's what they would do. Instead, they just hug. And there's a lot in that moment, I think, because it doesn't say that they don't want to kiss each other. No.

But it's also the movie saying we're not going to reduce it to that. They can have a friendship first. That hasn't been figured out at this moment, but she finally has a family. And also, they haven't figured that out within themselves. She finally has a family. She finally has a family, but they don't know how they feel about each other. It's like how it's going to be when Daisy Ridley and I go on a date. It's going to take a while to express those emotions.

So, they're running through. They get to a bridge. Kylo Ren is there. Han Solo's like, I have to face him. And Snoke said to him, like, Snoke has said, this is your greatest test, essentially. You know what you have to face him and Snoke said to him like Snoke has said this is your greatest test essentially you gotta

know what you have to do so we kind of know what's coming because the way the scene is framed is so obviously like the obi-wan Darth Vader fight where Finn and Ray are in the

distance watching Chewbacca's around like planting charges yeah and they're facing off but like peacefully facing off. Yes. And Kylo Ren is really sad. He's Ben.

He's called Ben by his dad for the first time. And his dad's saying like, forget Snoke. He's got his power over you. And Ren's like, I'm so conflicted. I'm so messed up. But what he's saying is like,

I really need to shed you. Yeah. And I need to shed my family. He's like, I know what I need to do. I know what I need to do. Can you help me? And Han Solo maybe thinks he's helping him.

Maybe not. But he killed him. He looks like he's handing over the lightsaber and then once he's in Han Solo's hand. Yeah. But it's still a very powerful moment. And friends, new and old, Chewbacca, Finn, Rey, all scream out. And they're like, we just gotta fucking get out of here.

Poor Han Solo. Yeah. He dies. They get it basically right. It's a tough thing to do to kill off a very iconic character. And I wonder if this is

one reason that people are upset. That people who don't like the movie are upset. I can't tell. I don't know. The place is gonna blow.

They wanna get off the base. The thing is, Harrison Ford, he's such a star that if he's in these movies, you're always going to want to see him. And I think they just know he's got to pass the torch, right? It gives stakes. And it makes more sense, the way things are set up right now, there is greater function for Leia and Luke

in future movies than that. Sure, I mean, they can each have their sort of moments. Right now, they're still sort of backgrounded. And they have clear roles. This was Han's movie. Like, Luke is the last Jedi master. Leia is the general of the resistance. Han is, once again, just like a scoundrel. And he has this sort of

redemptive moment here, you know? He dies trying to save someone else, his son. And also, of course, it puts a lot onto Kylo Ren as like your bad guy. Right, it makes him real. No tantrum haver only.

This is the guy who killed Han Solo. His dad. He's a real bad guy. Killed his dad. Yeah. That's the bigger thing. Bratricide. No, that's brother.

Patricide. Yeah. So Finn and Rey are trying to get off with Chewbacca. Stark killer base, which is essentially like Hoth. And they're trying to escape and they run into Kylo Ren who chases them down. Yeah, so then we have this final show down in the woods, in the

wintry woods of Starkiller Base, which is pretty good, I would say. It's the second best. Yeah, again, not as dynamic as lightsaber fights we've seen in the past, but almost supposed to be because first you have Finn, who as the lightsaber barely knows what he's doing, is kind of trying to just fight off.

And then you have Rey, who at first, I mean, literally Kylo Ren says, like, you need training, but you could be great. And then she kind of like, you know, advances to level two in her force powers and kind of just like, you know. Yeah, I mean, the great moment where the lightsaber's been cast aside and Kylo Ren's trying to pull it back to him with the force.

Right, and she gets it. And then she gets it first because her force is more powerful. I've heard people complaining about how powerful she is when she hasn't been trained. Oh, who gives a shit? Fuck off.

I agree. And I also think the way I interpret it is... No, it's... There's a point in the movie... There's always at the beginning you have all the power. It's like in The Magicians, those books, right? You can do one big thing because it's surging out of you.

You know? I also think there's that moment where he goes, like, how did you get out? You know, when Finn asks her, like, how she freed herself from... She's like, I couldn't tell you. You wouldn't believe me if I said it. It's crazy, yeah. And that infers to me that, like like she's had this feeling for a while and I can just see like Rey in her hollowed out AT-AT just like testing moving stuff.

Maybe. I don't think it's that. I think she's been fucking with the idea for a little. I think it's disassociative. Not like training herself. But she's had this feeling for a while. I disagree. I think it's disassociative.

She like literally doesn't know what she's doing. I think she's had the feeling for a while. But hasn't really had an outlet to test it out. Because there's that moment where he says you're good with the force and she's like that's what this is. You know. Yeah. Well I don't think

she's been like oh let me train at the force. I think she's been in her thing like pushing shit. We don't need to speak about a thing that literally doesn't happen in the movie.

Well that's a fun talk about movies. I don't think so. I think that it's like something she's locked away because I think the whole point is that she's locked it all away.

I think she's been using it and not knowing what it is in very small doses away from everyone else. no argument i mean this there's difference of it's a movie that leaves a lot for you to fill in it's very star wars a new hopey yeah this thing where it's like star killer capace gets destroyed fine all the villains escape okay you know we don't know about phasma but i feel feel like she's going to come back. I do too.

But certainly Hux and Kylo Ren escape. Yeah. Everyone's a little worse for wear. Yep. Kylo Ren has like a scar on his face. Yeah, big scar across the face. You know, Finn gets cut down, but he'll probably be okay.

He's definitely going to be okay. I mean, Chewbacca gathers him up. There's this suggestion in the film which I like, which is that Chewbacca kind of imprints on Finn the most. They kind of have a lot of scenes together and that Finn can maybe be his new co-pilot. Yes. Well, no, Rey would be his co-pilot. Rey drives the ship. No, but Rey goes off to... With Chewbacca. All right, fine. I'm just saying... Chewbacca's there with her at the end. All right! Is he? Yeah. They fly the ship together. Chewbacca. All right, fine. I'm just saying. Chewbacca's there with her at the end. All right. Is he?

Yeah. They fly the ship together. Chewbacca goes with Rey at the end. Well, I didn't see him. I didn't see him. I just saw her. She's the only one on screen. She doesn't climb up the mountain.

Okay. Chewbacca's in the ship with her. I thought the film was, because Finn's with them, though. They're both friends with them. They're all going to be friends together. No, but she leaves Finn at the base and is like,

I'm sure I'll see you again, even though he's unconscious. Right, and then Chewbacca comes with her in the ship. Okay, I don't remember that. They's unconscious. Right, and then Chewbacca comes with her in the ship. Okay, I don't remember that. They'll meet up with Finn again. Chewbacca's in the ship. R2-D2 wakes up, unlocks the map.

They find Luke. Yeah, this is all very cute. He flies with Chewbacca and BB-8 to the Isle of Skellig Michael in Ireland. Yeah. To what is called the Jedi Steps. Yes. In the John Williams score, in the soundtrack. And she walks up to the top,

and she sees a figure from behind wearing a rope, turns around. Luke. He looks unbelievable. He looks perfect. He looks perfect. He's got a beard, he's got long hair. Yeah.

You know, shoulder length. And he looks at her, and he does some really good face acting here. There's no talking. Conveys a lot. There's this irritating helicopter shot circling around them. Don't like that. That's the last shot of the movie.

But she holds out the lightsaber and he looks at her and they stand there and no one knows what's going to happen next. And that's the end of the movie. I would have liked a static shot of just the two of them framed at opposite sides of the picture. Me too. One star. Yep. Would have liked a static shot to end the film. Me too. One star. Yep. Would have liked a static shot to end the film. One star. One star.

We'll see again. So, we've criticized a lot of things in this movie. We've loved a lot of things in this movie. We've called it great a couple times. Is it a great movie? No. Is it a great Star Wars movie? Yeah.

I think it might be better than Return of the Jedi. I think so too. My definitive ranking. Which is always the thing. You know, with every prequel, we would always say, Look, look, look, look, look, look. We don't want, it's not going to eclipse Star Wars. It's not going to eclipse The Empire Strikes Back.

No. But maybe it can be better than Return of the Jedi. That was always the baseline quality that everyone wanted in a new Star Wars movie. And the table is set perfectly for the future of this franchise. Like, there is an exciting future ahead of us. I mean, Abrams has, I think, done the job his corporate masters appointed, which is like, yeah, like, you know, give us some grounding, give us a world, give us some characters.

Set the table. And set that table for us. Rian Johnson will take the next film. He's a terrific hire. I love Rian Johnson. With a more defined voice. Someone who's going to be able to impart. And then the film will be put in the hands

of a convicted war criminal Colin Trevorrow. There's a lot of time. People die every day. Anything could happen. Griffin, come on. This is a podcast going out to the world. Anything could happen. Take it easy. Anything could happen. I'm not the biggest fan of Colin Trevorrow's oeuvre so far. Didn't like either

of the films he made. Who knows? Do you know who is a big fan of Colin Trevorrow's Oeuvre so far. Didn't like either of the films he made. Who knows? Do you know who is a big fan of Colin Trevorrow's Oeuvre? The Dark Lord Satan. And Colin Trevorrow. Those are the only two. No, we joke around about him a lot, and I don't want to be too mean-spirited about him because I do feel like I don't want to just be

a huge asshole lobbing grenades from the sidelines. Maybe make a different movie. It's hard to make a movie. I was not a big fan of his Jurassic World, which Ibing like grenades from the sidelines. Maybe make a different movie. Make a movie. I was not a big fan of his Jurassic World which I feel like was in the same realm as this movie.

Yeah. This nostalgia steeped work that's trying to set up a new world. Yeah. And is constantly worried about and burdened by the past

and referencing back to it. And I just think that Jurassic World did a terrible job of that but still hit a home run in terms of money. Hopefully this is going to outgross all of those records. I agree. I'm just saying if people are out there complaining like,

oh, it's a nostalgic movie. Oh, it's ripping off the better movie. Oh, you know, like blah, blah, blah. Take a look at a movie like Jurassic World that tried the same tricks and failed. It's not the easiest balancing act to pull off, and J.J. Abrams pulled it off. Of the three, I'm going toams pulled it off. Of the three, I'm going to say something maybe controversial.

Of the three movies that tried to do that kind of thing, though, I do think Creed is the best of the three. Love Creed. Creed is a movie I think is the best of the three. Close to my top ten of the year. Yeah, Jurassic World sucks. Star Wars Force Awakens is a lot of fun. I can't think about other movies right now. It's weird.

It's tough. I'm going to probably see it again tonight, just because I feel like I need to reconcile it. I'm seeing it again Sunday. We're talking Friday. I have to to probably see it again tonight. I'm seeing it again tomorrow. Just because I feel like I need to reconcile it. I'm seeing it again Sunday. We're talking Friday. I have to think it's on Sunday. Yeah. This will be coming out on Monday.

Thank you for listening. I hope you've all seen it. Otherwise, I'm sorry that you listened to this. We told you not to if you haven't seen it. Yeah, well, that was bad. That's on you. Some people like spoilers. Yeah, but they're dumb.

You shouldn't have us tell you the movie. I don't care. People can do them. You shouldn't have us tell you the movie. You should do them. You shouldn't have us tell you the movie. You should go see it. It's the fun of the movie. All right, well, let's stop criticizing our listeners. We're not criticizing our listeners.

I'm only criticizing the Sith Lord. No, there's no Sith. If you listen to this before seeing the movie, I think you're a Sith Lord. There were no Sith in this movie. Yeah. Kylo's a knight of Ren. Whatever that means.

Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week. Podcast holiday special. Yeah, next week. Podcast holiday special. Yeah. Next week podcast holiday special. After that January is going to come and we're going to be a different thing.

Yeah. It's going to be weird. Yeah. We still haven't really told you guys what we're doing. We'll do that in January. It's going to be hard because you know we've done Star Wars all year.

And it's crazy. We did it all. But look, I mean, like, if you like movies and you like us talking, I think you'll still be happy. I think so, too. I think you'll still have fun. We just sort of came to the conclusion that we can't do Star Wars forever. Yeah. I'm very happy to not have to think about these movies all day.

I am, too. As much as I'm going to see Force Awakens five more times. As steep as I got in them, I am, too. It's a little suffocating. I'm happy to let them go. I hope that you guys can run with us as we explore new things, talk about movies we love, movies we hate, movies that fascinate us. That's the common thread.

They're going to all fascinate us. And right now we're Luke and Leia swinging across the chasm. We just need you to trust us that we're going to take you to the other side. And I think we will. I think we're going to do it. I think we're going to pull it off. So we have at least one off coming in January. No, I think we're doing a whole series in January. We're doing a miniseries

in January. I refuse to debate it. We have to debate this. I have an alternate pitch that I want to give to you. And then we're going to move on to a director who we're interested in. Within the parameters of this show. Our next two big miniseries planned are director spotlights

where we will be going through one by one each of their films rather than doing ten episodes per week. We're never probably going to do the thing we did with the prequels

again where we almost ridiculously, you know, over-explored them. We tried to find another, there's nothing, nothing worked in the same way.

But trust us, I think we got some fun stuff lined up for you. And you know, hey, a couple years from now, we're going to talk about a little movie called Star Wars Episode VIII. Yeah.

Crazy. Yeah. It's called Star Wars Episode VIII. Jar Jar's back. Yeah. No, I was going to say Star Wars Episode VIII, Monsters Unleashed. Monsters Unleashed from Scooby-Doo 2 is still my favorite sequel. Star Wars Episode VIII, Out of the Shadows.

Yeah. As the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie is called. It looks very brightly lit. Thank you for listening. Please keep listening. Contact ships coming in the mail. So just, yeah, keep tight. We'll be back in January.

And we love you. We'll be back next week with the holiday special. We'll be back next week with the holiday special. And then we'll be back in January. We do love you. Yeah. So much. And as always, may the force be with you.

May the force be with you. Oh, you know what? Let's not end it here. Let's get Ben back in here. Oh, you want to go get him? Yeah. Should we get Ben a Christmas present

while we're here? Will you go get Ben, please? But no, this is the last thing we should talk about before he comes back in. Should we get him a Christmas present? Sure.

We should get him something, right? You handle it. He likes hats. Will you go get him? I need to pee. Okay. Hey, guys. It's me, David Sims.

Griffin is literally... Oh, hey, wow. Ben, we're all done. Ben, we're all done. Any final thoughts you want to share? We went long. How long did we go, Ben? I'm going to guess close to two hours.

Well, take a look at our... I think it was like 1.45 is my guess, but we had a lot to talk about. You almost did two hours. Nice. Do I have any final thoughts? No, I don't know. Everyone have a happy. Yeah.

Have you had a nice year with us? Absolutely, guys. It's been great to develop this idea with you and see it grow into this great franchise known as Griffin and David Presents. I see so many great things down the road for us. Oh, come on. No speed bumps, though. Nothing but smooth sailing. Okay.

We like smooth sails. Love those smooth sails. I think I might cut this part out. No, we're going to keep it. We're going to keep it. Keep it in. You said you weren't going to cut anything out of this episode. What did you get up to while you were out?

Well, it was a... I had a smoke. It was an employee, a co-worker's birthday, so I got a free lunch. I got a hamburger and some fries from Shake Shack. Very nice. Wrote some emails. Got some fun new podcasts coming out in the next year.

Hey, and just remember to keep rating and reviewing and subscribing to our podcast, but also Sister Podcast on the UCB Comedy Network. Yep. So that was really what I was doing for the last two hours. Well, I already did a fake-out ending, but now that you're back in here and order has been restored and the family's back together. It's true yeah do you want to take us out with an end as always Ben?

I'd love to I never even got the chance as someone who didn't hear any of the things we established in this episode yeah and as always Harrison Ford is a fucking babe agreed Great.