Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Podcastic Two

Episode Date: September 14, 2015

In 1992, the original Fantastic Four movie was produced by Constantin Film solely to retain the rights of the franchise. Shot in 22 days, the low budget film was never to be officially released (unbenounced to the crew and the mostly Canadian cast.) Fast forward to early aughts and superhero films are all the rage. 20th Century Fox having acquired the licensing, after years of numerous scripts being thrown around, finally begin production on the second Fantastic Four movie in 2004. Though considered a failure among critics and fans, box office sales proved enough for 2007’s sequel, Rise of the Silver Surfer. Again, it was not good. But then in 2015 a reboot directed by Josh Trank was released among rumors of fighting and reshoots and guess what guys IT’S ALSO BAD! In this week’s special episode, join hosts Griffin and David as they discuss and rank all four films and why this may be the end for Mister Fantastic (Reed Richards), Invisible Woman (Susan Storm), The Human Torch (Johnny Storm) and The Thing (Ben Grimm). Music courtesy of John Ottman “Main Titles” & The Fantastic Four “The Whole World Is A Stage”

Hello, hello, hello, hello. Was that four hellos? It was indeed, because this is The Podcastic 2. Oh my god. Griffin's making this disgusting smile on his face right now. Griffin and David present The Podcastic 2, the first and last episode of The Podcastic 2. Yeah, maybe. Who knows?

You know, there could be another Fantastic Four movie down the line one day that we want to talk about. We are, of course, The Podcastic 2. I'm Griffin Newman. David Simmons. We are, of course, the Podcastic Two. I'm Griffin Newman. David Simms. With us, as always, is producer Ben Hosley, also known as Producer Ben, also known as Purdueer Ben, also known as the Ben-ducer, also known as the Hos, also known as Mr. Positive, also known as...

Hello, Fennel. Hello, Fennel. Hello, Fennel. A hearty hello, Fennel to us all. Spirited hello, Fennel. Hello, Fennel. So,. Spirited hello fennel. Hello fennel. So, guys, I listened to some of the commentary.

You are really just giving it to the fans, you know? We're giving it to the fans. They were just asking for it, and you gave it to them. Let's say this, though. I mean, we're now- Did we talk about the movie at all in the commentary? Mostly, we spent like an hour and a half dissecting you and McGregor's career. Yeah, but I think it's a good use of that commentary. Sure. We talk about the movie at all in the commentary? Mostly, we spent like an hour and a half dissecting Ewan McGregor's career. Yeah, but I think it's a good use of that commentary. We talk about the movie a little.

I occasionally will be like, oh, this is the scene where, it doesn't matter. It's well-worn territory at this point. I mean, I pointed out how bad it looked. Ewan Griffin, we've talked about this. We had talked about it a lot. I mean, I would catch a little moment where they would just be like, we are never watching this movie again. Ever again.

Very happy. would like catch a little moment or they would just be like we are never watching this movie ever again ever again very happy uh i like the part where you just mention the existence of mordecai and i laughed for three minutes straight i cannot stop laughing that wasn't a bit you can attest to that i truly could not stop laughing you know we we were a little worn down and i think i think i may have summoned a picture of mordecai on my phone. Well, first you just said we were reading through the credits. Then you just said Mordecai. I laughed for two minutes. Then you showed me the picture. And then I laughed for another minute. Well, IMDb has this sort of screen grab.

It's very embarrassing. He's on the hood of a car. That guy. That Mordecai. That Mordecai. That Mordecai. And we talked about it on the commentary. It's too easy to make fun of Mordecai, but it's really fun. We're going to watch it.

Oh, yeah. And we're going to have a blast. We're never going to release it to you folks. We're not going to record it. It's for us and not for you. Although, speaking of that, Richard Lawson really wants to watch Aloha. I think we should do an episode about Aloha. Oh, I'd happily do Aloha.

Have you ever seen Aloha? No, I have, but I want to watch it again because it is in my brain like encephalitis. Yeah, I would love to do Aloha. He hasn't seen it. Okay.

But I have. We should do that. Yeah. I saw it with Pilot Verwitt at the Williamsburg Theater. She complained. We were the only people in the theater.

I saw it with Matthew Starr at the AMC 42nd Street 25. We smuggled beers into the theater and drank while we were watching. I think it was a good idea and it connects to

one of the movies we're discussing today. You should have had appropriate drinks with little Hawaiian umbrellas in them. Yeah, we had tall appropriate drinks with little Hawaiian umbrellas in them. Yeah, we have tall boys and we put Hawaiian umbrellas in them. We put a lei around each can. I also, and this is not a thing I do often,

I smuggled beers into the theater to watch Josh Trank's 2015 adaptation of Fantastic Four because... Oh, I see. Maybe this is why you like it. I don't like it. Don't say that. Complicated thoughts.

We have a lot to talk about today. Yeah, so I've been asking on this podcast for weeks whether Griffin has seen the Fantastic Four movie yet by Josh Trank. Not always on the mic. Sometimes before we record. Just because I knew he cared a lot about Fantastic Four like I do. They're my favorite characters in all of comic book history. And I just, the movie was so bad

and I really just wanted to hear what he thought about it and he hadn't seen it and then finally he saw it and he demanded we sit down and record this podcast for you about

the Fantastic Four movies all the Fantastic Four movies. The movies. We need to discuss all four of them. Now this podcast All Fantastic Four of them. All Fantastic Four of them.

This podcast we've established Giving Ben some pats for that bad pun. This larger franchise we are running Griffin and David Prezant larger franchise we are running, Griffin and David Prezant. Yeah, the Griffin and David Prezant franchise. The through line, the thematic through line is blank check projects when someone is given

complete creative control. Or whatever. It doesn't have to be they have complete creative control because I mean obviously Josh Trank. Well this is my point. I think the interesting angle for the Fantastic Four movies is that the main authorial voice in all four of these movies is the studio that has the rights at that time. Sure, that's true. All four movies were made for craven reasons to retain rights for the characters.

Even the fourth one? I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fourth one. The Trank one we're talking about? Yeah, the Trank one. Oh, they were gonna lose the rights to Marvel. No, I know, but also, in a vacuum, like, it seems

like a good idea. It's kinda like, nobody really liked the other one. It's time for someone to do a good Fantastic Four, right? I agree. You know, like, something really wrong with, like, if Marvel had gotten the rights, and were like, we're doing them, then everyone would have been happy. David, I think we need to start at the beginning.

Okay. The year... I think it's 91, 92. You want me to look it up for the Corman movie? Yeah. In the 1960s, Roger Corman noted B-movie maestro, producer, director extraordinaire, a thrifty sort,

makes films on the cheap, you know, would get a location like a castle 94 94 wow so they nailed it with the release year I think all Fantastic Four movies

should come out in years that end in four that's my belief and only one of them has although it didn't come out but that's true he's a thriftmeister

right yeah sure he makes cheap like shock movies and horror movies and action movies you know sometimes they got some broads in them.

The good ones. Yeah, exactly. And he helped careers of Martin Scorsese. Jonathan Demme. Yeah, you know. Ron Howard. Got them their starts in how to make a movie fast and cheap. And Coppola, notoriously Coppola, I think was a screenwriter on one of his movies.

They were filming in a castle. And he went, we have the castle for another week. If you can write a script in the next 24 hours that films entirely in this castle, we have like $3,000 left over on this movie. You can make a movie in a week in a castle. Right. And that was like Coppola's first movie, I think. Dementia 13? I don't know.

I believe. Get back to the point. In the 1960s, he buys the rights. No, I don't know. I believe. Get back to the point. In the 1960s, he buys the rights. No, I don't think so. No, I'm correcting you here. I thought that's what you were about to say. Correct me. Go on, go on, go on.

Corman doesn't come on until later. You think Corman bought the rights in the 60s? I think he buys the rights in the 60s or 70s. No, I don't think so. What do you think? Well, according to Wikipedia, Bernd Eichinger guy who's the guy who produced all these movies yeah yeah he met with stan lee okay asking for the movie rights to fantastic four okay he got them three years later okay for 250 000 what year is this in uh that would be in 1986 okay which is not a lot of money

not a lot of money 250 grand so i mean i think marvel is probably at a a bit of a financial low maybe in the midday i mean the comics are doing okay but it's you know but also you have to understand there's no superhero movies yet making a movie about a superhero superman that's about it go fuck yourself they would say to that idea they They would, yeah. They made Superman, but at that point, by 86, Superman's on its last legs. We're at like Quest for Peace era, where Superman's like a big stinking pile of poo-poo. And Batman hasn't come onto the scene yet, right? Batman changes the game. That's in 89?

89. That's three years later. And at this point in time, they're developing Batman and Warner Brothers, but they're going, oh, it should be a comedy, right? Batman, like Adam West, that thing's silly. They want to do Batman with like Bill Murray. That's the plan, right? And so the idea of doing like a comic book movie, A, prohibitively expensive.

You can't realize the effects. B, they're for kids. Who wants to watch kids' movies? Technology's not totally there yet. Fantastic Four, you know, you got a stretchy guy that's hard to do. You know, yeah. So he buys the rights. It's a lot for this guy, but not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

No, and anyway, he has the rights for a while. Budget concerns preclude any production. And with the rights they're going to expire at the end of 92, he goes to Corman and makes a low budget Fantastic Four saying they didn't say I had to make a big movie.

It was made for $1 million. I'm eating a bagel. So the thing here is he was at the end of his window for the rights. Yeah, he had to make it. He had to make something. They made it in about 20 days. He goes to Corman. Corman knows how to make movies for a little million bucks. Tight schedule.

They use all like Canadian actors, like soap opera actors. Yeah. No known actors. Yeah. No known stars. No. And they make a movie, all these actors, I've read a lot of interviews with them. It's so sad. They all thought they were like, I'm in a Fantastic Four movie. Right, because at the point this movie is being made, Batman has come out.

And they must have thought like, look, it's a cheap movie, but hey, like maybe it'll hit, you know? It's going to hit. Yeah. And they had a trailer that they attached to certain home video releases of kids' films. They were starting to do promotional stuff. Right. But, alas, he never intended

to make this film. Oley Sassoon is the director. Son of Vidal Sassoon. Right. Noted hairstylist. Yeah, son of Siegfried Sassoon. Noted World War I poet. Is that true? I'm not sure. Okay. Carry on. The plan was

if I make a film before this window expires, I retain the rights for another ten years. Something like that. Yeah, he keeps the rights. And then I can sell the rights to someone else in order for anyone else to make a movie, which now, there's a possibility.

Now it's the early 90s. There have been two Batman films. There's a wave of other noir-ish sort of pulp hero films that come after it. Less the big DC Marvel characters, but you have The Shadow, you have The Phantom, you have Dick Tracy, you have The Rocketeer. Yep. None of those big hits, but all. Yeah.

Only the first two Batman movies work, and the second one's a bigger disappointment. Although, a misunderstood masterpiece, Batman Returns. We can talk about that someday. We can talk about that later. 15 years from now. Now, people see some potential money in the Fantastic Four. And at this point, Marvel is selling off all their characters to actual interested parties. James Cameron comes very close to doing both an X-Men movie and a Spider-Man movie.

I know. Before he ultimately does Titanic instead. His Spider-Man movie. That would have been something. Would have been rad. Hopefully. Had a lot of sex in it. Have you read the treatment?

Yeah, I have. And it's weird. There's a lot of like Doc Ock fucking people. And like, I don't know, like the thing, you know, he's really hot on the thing where he can make the webs out of his body. Organic web shooters.

Yeah, which is, you know, I don't know. I'm pro organic web shooters. I'm very anti. Well, let's keep on fighting.

But at this point, yeah, all the Marvel properties are being sold off to different studios, different directors. And so Fantastic Four has some value

and this schlockmeister goes to Corman, goes, let's make it quick. We're never going to release it. It's an Ashcan copy. And I will retain the rights. And I will be able to get a lot of money from an interested party who will buy the film from me just to never release it. And then they will retain, quote unquote, remake rights of the film to then make their own version.

So that's what he does. And Fox buys the film. It is never released. For years it was available on bootlegs if you go to comic conventions. You can watch it on YouTube now. Now in the internet era. But I had to go and buy a DVD.

You did? Wow. Yeah, when I was 14 years old I had to go buy a DVD. Fantastic Four are my favorites. Sure. Okay, I want to sidebar here for a second. Go on. In going through all my childhood belongings, because my father was selling his place because he didn't manage his finances correctly.

In addition to finding certain questionable history papers, the biggest discovery I made is how every single notebook, because I kept fucking everything in my entire life. Every single notebook I had from like 7th grade to 12th grade is just littered with Fantastic Four doodles. Notes, concepts. Right.

I, as like a 13-year-old, was obsessed with the idea that I would someday make a Fantastic Four movie. Make one. Yes. Not be in one. No, make one. Make one. Make one. I'm going to make a Fantastic Four movie. Make one. Yes. Not be in one. No, make one. Make one. Make one. So I'm going to make

a Fantastic Four movie. Yes. And I would just draw character designs and come up with scene breakdowns. I like had like scraps of drafts of scripts

I wrote and fucking storyboards. Of course, extensive merchandise plans. That was, you know, let's put the cart before the horse. Yeah.

And I, my college essay, my college admissions essay I wrote was about how much I love the Fantastic Four. You told me that, I remember that, yeah. All of this, right? These characters mean a tremendous, tremendous amount to me. I don't remember why I got onto this side.

I don't either. Oh, so I go find the bootleg when I'm 14 because this means a lot to me. It's bad. It's a bad movie. Yeah. Bad movie. It was clearly made in 22 days.

Yeah. Right. It feels like. Yeah. There's a point where you can almost hear the characters going like, oh, we got to finish this up. Where you can see a guy at the corner of the frame pointing at his watch and just going like, we got to finish this up. It has really bad special effects. Yep.

And it has to have a lot of them. It basically seems to be shot at a laser tag arena. It's kind of dark and there's a lot of smoke to sort of mask any seams that might be noticed. Although the seams are very noticeable. Sure. I mean, the suits look sub-cosplay. Yeah.

Although, you know, you gotta applaud them. They actually wear the suits, you know, the kind of classic Fantastic Four suit with the big four in the middle. Oh, I agree with that. Yeah. They got the classic blue and white. The thing is... It's like a sub-part animatronic, like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles style.

Like rubber foam suit thing. With a mechanical face that's not super expressive. No. His mouth can move up and down. His brow can be more or less furrowed. But. But it exists. And it fucking looks like the thing.

It doesn't move super well. It looks like the thing, design wise. I guess so. It looks like the thing. The thing is. Anyway, go on. Human Torch, whenever he flames on, looks like an MS Paint drawing. Yeah, he looks like clip art.

He looks like clip art. I thought you were going to say they just lit a dude on fire. They just lit a dude... That would be better. That would be better. If it was that stuntman, that old stuntman thing of the guy running and he's on fire, that would be better. What was it?

That fucking Primus video? What was that video that Spike Jonze did? Whatever. Exactly. It's not Primus and someone What was that video that Spike Jonze did? Whatever. It's not Primus and someone's going to chew me out. Whatever. That's what I'm referencing. That's what I'm referencing. Right.

Anytime the Human Torch flames on, it's entirely cartooned. Yeah. Like they just cartoon like clip art of a building skyline and then just a little orange like Cheeto like flying by. It looks terrible. It's like Subtron, but not stylized in a film where that's not the aesthetic. There's no style. But Doctor Doom, let it be said, kind of looks great.

Yeah, he looks okay. Looks like Doctor Doom. It's the classic costume. Again, he looks more like Doctor Doom than the other movies. Yeah. It's true. The plot doesn't really make sense. No. I mean, it's true. The plot doesn't really make sense.

No. I mean, it's the basic, they go to space, they get the powers, and they have to fight Doctor Doom. Like, there's not really... Doctor Doom's ostensibly

the villain of the movie, although, like, the whole second act is them fighting some guy named The Jeweler. I forgot about The Jeweler. It's been a long time since I saw The Jeweler.

Who is not from the comic books. No. He sort of feels like maybe he's inspired by Mole Man, but he's a guy who loves jewels, and he quotes Shakespeare a lot. He says like, oh, what divine creatures we mortals be.

He says weird, butchered Shakespeare quotes all the time. Yeah. And they just fight the jeweler. It's like a real petty- They fight Dr. Doom at the end, right? At the end. But I'm saying the whole second act. They knock him off a cliff or something.

Yeah, no, the third act, the final villain is Dr. Doom. But the jeweler is like a tertiary boss. Yeah, sure, sure. Which is interesting. The other movies don't have that. No. And the other thing I think is interesting...

Which is the classic superhero movie structure. Yeah, you fight... There's like a sort of sub-villain and then you get to the big guy. The other interesting thing we were talking about right before we started recording about some of the things that make the Fantastic Four different than other comic book characters, especially Marvel. Another sidebar, some important history here.

Fantastic Four, the first superhero family of the Marvel Universe. Timely Comics is created in the 1940s. Captain America was created as a superhero to combat Nazism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to do the whole Marvel Comics history. No, in a very abbreviated form. Yes, go on, go on. By that time, otherwise it was all mystery comics, romance comics.

Superhero comics don't really take off. Right. I mean, they had in the 30s. They kind of die off after the war. But they have a couple characters in the 40s. Captain America is one of them. There's a character in the Human Torch who is not a human. He's an android.

It doesn't make any sense. And he catches on fire, right? And Namor. Right. Those are the characters they have. Those are the three, right? Those are who survived, pretty much. Toro.

Yeah. Bucky. Yeah. Yeah. Like, 20 years later, a renamed Marvel Comics hires a scrappy young dude named like Stanley Hershkowitz. And he's like, I'm going to be a novelist. I don't want to put my real name on this. I'll call myself Stanley.

And they go, we need superheroes. DC had been taken off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman. And then they create the Justice League. They put all three characters in one title. The title sells through the roof. Right?

Yes. So they go to him. We need a team. A team? What am I going to do with the team? Well, we got this Human Torch thing. He goes, that character's dumb. The robot's dumb.

But I like the idea of a guy who catches on fire. And he creates this team. Fantastic Four, I think, are different than any other major team in superhero comics. I keep on fucking silencing this. than any other major team in superhero comics. Keep on fucking silencing this. My sister started high school today, and she mass-text my family a picture of her schedule, and now everyone's commenting on which teacher she did or didn't get.

And it's a fucking text letter that will not stop. All right, all right, all right. We're already on way too long a sidetrack here. I agree with you. Justice League is a supergroup. Yes, yes, yes. Avengers is a supergroup. X-Men has thousands of members. Those don't exist yet. It's just Fantastic Four.

What is revolutionary? Like you're trying to say, they are a family. They squabble. They have dynamics. Their team is very solidly that team. The roster doesn't change. At points in time, Ghost Rider's on there or whatever, but it's fucking bullshit. You know it's a placeholder. Black Panther was a she-hog.

Fantastic Four at its core is these four people. When someone else is in there, you're like, well, the point is making us miss the one who's now not here. And it's four quadrants in a family. You know, the father, the sort of stern, reproachful father, the warm, nurturing,

protective mother, and then the two scrappy brothers, like the hothead and the lunk you know I don't know I don't know how you want it there's so many ways to do that

Ben Grimm can kind of be the uncle too once they have their kids and capitalizing on the space race yeah all this stuff the obsession

they just go to space with the cosmic you read the first issue it's literally just like the movies elaborate on it it's just they just go to space

they were trying to get to space at that point in time people just wanted to get to space. Getting to space makes them crazy. No one knew. It's a superpower. No one knew what was going to happen if you put a person in space. They go to space.

They come back. They each get a power that somewhat mimics one of the four elements. Yeah. Kind of. Kind of. Really? Earth. Ben Grimm is Rob.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fire. Human torch. There's no water. It's just what I might say is air. Yeah. And Mr. Fantastic moves like water. Yeah, he's sort of fluid.

You know stretchy water? Stretchy water, man. You ever drink a glass of stretchy water? Stretchy water, man. But they are four people who have to be a team. Yeah. They don't choose to be a team. They're not recruited.

It's not, well, we're all the most powerful people. They love each other. They hate each other in equal measure. Yeah. They bicker, like I said. But they got to team up. And the word fantastic, I think, is key. It's a very, very sincere, genuine word.

Okay. Definitely not just allusion. Yeah, alliteration. Well, yeah. But I also think there's a spirit of adventure to the Fantastic Four and limitless possibilities. Exploration. Right. Going through different dimensions. dimensions, seeing incredible things.

They see all these great Jack Kirby. Yeah. We could talk about the comics all day, but we're not here to talk about the comic books. My point is that I think this Roger Corman movie in its crappy, forced, bastardized way captures some of that spirit. That's fair. is because just or in comparison to the other movies it's it's so uh corny because it is underwritten because the actors are uh functional at best they don't really want to be mean to them because you know right but

there is a sort of moon eyed childish optimism to the whole film that sort of captures some by accident or by purpose yeah sense of the film you do see the four characters standing there in the suits that look like their suits they look like they cost ten dollars but they look like they're just standing there it looks okay and dr doom is in this film and he has a green cloak and a suit of armor. And he's like a dictator. He like is because all the other films are afraid to make him what he is. Doctor Doom was ostensibly the second smartest man in the world.

He would be the smartest man in the world if Reed Richards hadn't lived. And his rivalry, his jealousy over that drives him insane. Yeah. And other things drive him insane. He's the bastard son of a leader of a country and a gypsy witch. Yep. And he takes the throne. Yep. And uses his country to sort of combat the

Fantastic Four. He's also a sorcerer. Take over the world. He's got sorcery. Yeah, he's also a sorcerer. He's got sorcery powers on his side. And he's an Eastern European dictator. And he's a master scientist. My favorite thing about Doctor Doom, what I think makes him an interesting character, is that sometimes you get the sense oh, he's a good leader to his people.

No, totally. We in America hate him. His people live in these like thatched huts and castles and things like that. He lives in like the 16th century, but they all seem alike. And Victor Von Doom. Yeah. His name is Victor Von Doom. The best thing. The reason we're talking about this, I think, is like this is what the movies have

always stumbled on. You know. Right out of the gate, they have, is this is what the movies have always stumbled on. Right out of the gate, they have trouble with this. It's a silly property. There are a lot of silly things, and a lot of these films, they get scared. They get sheepish, and they go, oh, what if we call him Victor Von Dam? What if he isn't really in charge of a country, but he goes to the country on vacation sometimes? They write around these things. And I think the way to make a Fantastic Four movie is to go head on

into them. Head first. Sure. You know, much in the way that Batman owns, Tim Burton's Batman owns it by being gothic, highly stylized, you know, in a dark and gritty kind of different way, but so high and cartoony. Yeah. Batman's different. Yeah, but I'm saying Fantastic Four

needs to own the world. I think you can do Batman a lot of ways I don't think you can do Fantastic Four a lot of ways I agree with you but I think the common thread with the movies that don't work

is that they're afraid of the property it's one of the many problems that those movies have I mean to me the best example is Thor the Dark World

the movie that nobody likes except for me we love it but like that movie it's like yeah in the beginning there were dark elves and then like it will literally it's the opening line in the beginning there were dark elves

it cuts it'll cut to like some forest and like varvel time will like come on screen as if anyone is supposed to know what that is in reference to and it doesn't matter like it's just like come on you like it just own it yeah just own it alright so forget the Cormorant movie.

And also, the final battle in Thor the Dark World where they're fighting through different dimensions. Oh, I love that. Feels like how a Fantastic Four movie should end. Totally. With like silly, cosmic, insane, heightened, like I don't even understand what's happening. Totally true. Anyway, let's talk about the Trank movie. You want to do this in order?

We're going chronologically. I feel like the Trank movie is what everyone cares. All right, let's do it. Okay. Okay. We're going to talk more about the Trank movies than the other movies. But I think we have to this in order? We're going chronologically. I feel like the Trank movies, whatever, I don't care. All right, let's do it. Okay. Okay. We're going to talk more about the Trank movies than the other movies, but I think we have to go in order. Well, yeah, I did just watch the Tim Story movie.

So yeah, 20th Century Fox acquires the rights to Fantastic Four from this guy who is also a producer of that movie. Right. For about 10 years, different drafts come through, different writers, some great ones, some terrible ones. And Marvel movies start to hit. You got X-Men in 2000. You got Spider-Man in 2001.

You know, these movies start to work. The pressure's on. X-Men 2 comes out in 2004. Chris Columbus was going to do it for a while. Goes off and does Harry Potter. Sure. Fox has Peyton Reed. Yeah.

Who had directed Bring It On, which was a surprise hit. Goes to Fox for his next movie. Makes Down With Love, which we talked about in our commentary. Love that movie. They love that movie. They think it's, which we talked about in our commentary. Love that movie. They love that movie. They think it's going to be a big hit. And he goes- Is that 2003 that movie comes out?

Yeah. He goes, what if I did a Fantastic Four movie? He's a huge comic book fan that was set in the 60s, that owned the optimism of the characters, the fantastical elements of them, and was focused on the characters and their dynamics set in this fantastic backdrop. You don't worry about making it relatable in a realistic way. You worry about making the characters relatable because they are recognizable and human, and then setting them in a fantastic backdrop.

And the other thing he wanted to really focus on, which makes Fantastic Four unique, that is no longer unique because the Marvel Cinematic Universe has not picked up this thread, is in the Marvel comic books, has not picked up this thread is in the Marvel comic books, all the superheroes have secret identities. And the Fantastic Four do not. Right. They are celebrities. From minute one. And everyone loves them.

Pretty much. They go and they explore and they save people. And they live in this building in the middle of Manhattan that has a big four on it. And when a big monster comes out of the sidewalk on Fifth Avenue, people are scared, but they also go,

oh man, this means a Fantastic Four are going to show up. And people are cheering. Right. He wanted to own all that. Yeah. He said he kind of wanted to do Hard Day's Night

as a superhero movie. Yeah, and set it in the 60s. Period movie. Much like Down With Love. Set it with that sort of look, that aesthetic. I think some of his casting choices, I think he wanted Clooney to play Mr. Fantastic.

Would Clooney have done it? I don't know. I mean, that's an obvious choice. I think Charlize Theron he wanted to play Invisible on. I think John C. Reilly, he wanted to play The Thing. That sounds great. Who did he want for The Human Torch? I think Paul Walker. Who would have been right in the spot at that point? Right in the spot. He would have been right in the spot! No way. What did he want for the Human Torch? I think Paul Walker. Who would have been right in the spot

at that point? Right in the spot. He would have been right in the spot. No way. David, he was in the spot. I hate that. I hate that guy's thing.

He's not charismatic enough. Watch Pleasantville. I like him in Pleasantville. Watch Pleasantville. I've seen Pleasantville a million times. We're not going to talk about Paul Walker.

It's too emotional for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Down with Love Bombs really hard. Yeah, real hard. Fox kicks him off the project. They want Love Bombs really hard. Yeah, real hard. Fox kicks him off the project. They want to get

this movie out because there's a superhero craze. And also I think the rights issue is pressing against them again. They needed to make it. And there's an additional thing.

At this point, Marvel has rights to none of their characters cinematically. They are not making their own movies yet. And so Marvel's bottom line comes from increased comic book sales and merchandise sales

connected to the movies that are out each year. And they want like two movies each year. So after Spider-Man 2002, it's like 2003, Daredevil and Hulk. 2004, I think, was Spider-Man 2 and... X-Men 2. No, X-Men 2 no X-Men 2 was oh it was 2003

whatever it doesn't matter they want a couple films a year so they can keep the properties alive right right right right 2005 I think was supposed to be X-Men 3

and it gets pushed back because Bryan Singer leaves okay they don't have a film that year I get you they want something yeah yeah yeah Avi Arad at that point

head of Marvel goes you gotta make Fantastic Four got to make Fantastic Four. So they make Fantastic Four. They pick Tim Story, who had made Barbershop, which I love. Good movie. And then made a film called Taxi. Had he made Taxi?

Yeah, I was about to ask. That's before? Queen Latifah, Jimmy Fallon, buddy cop comedy, remake of a French film. Remake of a French movie. It's like France's Rush Hour. There are four taxi films they launched the career of Academy Award

winner Marion Coutillard uh okay beloved franchise oh you mean the French movies we're not talking about the French taxi movies I'm just getting context

come on man let's keep it come on we gotta keep it going they make taxi taxi test screens through the roof they go this movie's

gonna be a huge fucking hit that's crazy yeah it got like 100% approval ratings. Tom Lennon on some podcast talked about this because Tom Lennon, Robert Ben-Garrett wrote Taxi.

Yeah, right. They did a test screening. Can we talk about how they are the worst screenwriters? The worst screenwriters. I mean, I think Tom Lennon's a really funny comedian. Me too. But it's so annoying that he's like, listen to me. But he is successful.

Wildly successful. But they're terrible. They write these terrible movies. And they were always sort of saying publicly, like, well, these are the movies we do for money. These are the family films. But we have our passion projects. Wait till you see our passion projects. Their passion projects, the ones they did for them, turned out to be Let's Go to Jail, Let's Go to Prison.

What was it called? The Bob Odenkirk movie? Yeah, Let's Go to Prison. Which is terrible. I've never seen it. Yeah, it sounded weird. Balls of Fury. Yeah. Ping-pong comedy with Dan Folger and uh movies suck yeah terrible all their passion projects were terrible no Reno 911 movie is good it's solid yeah that's

because Reno 911 and that's his best thing I never saw Hell Babies you see that I heard it sucked yeah me too yeah now I'm just looking at his. By the way, we're having them both on as guests next week on our show. It's crazy. He wrote the Pacifier. Oh, right. They wrote Herbie Fully Loaded. They wrote Taxi. Herbie's okay. Taxi's terrible. Pacifier's

abysmal when I say that as the biggest Vinny D fan in the world. It's a bad one. Anyway, so they made Taxi. Taxi's testing great, so let's get Tim's story lined up. They already, they commissioned Lennon and Garrett to write like three more Taxi movies.

They go, this is our franchise, and they go, we gotta hand our hottest property to our hottest director, Tim's story. Let's give him Fantastic Four. Hey, Tim, the one thing is you have to start filming in eight weeks.

Is that true? That's great. They like hire him and it's like super fast. Right. They have a draft of the screenplay, but they're not happy with it, so they rewrite it very quickly. Who wrote the screenplay?

I don't know. I think Simon Kinberg is one of three. Mark Frost wrote the screenplay, which is crazy. I think he wrote the original version that they rewrote. Michael France had a draft. Yeah. He wrote Goldeneye. I think Kinberg tried to tie it together.

Kinberg's not credited. Oh, he's uncredited? I heard an interview with him where he talked about having like six weeks to make it. They also want to make it smaller and cheaper. Yeah, that movie is one set piece, basically. It's one set piece. It doesn't really, it's a really weird movie. Yeah.

It's really bad. It's really terrible. It does seem really rushed. Yes. It's full of product placement. Like, insane product placement. Like, the Human Torch gets banged against a big Whopper poster. That says, New Flaming Hot Whopper. New Flame Grilled.

And he, like, lights it and it, like, smokes. It's crazy. Yeah, there's a lot of extreme sports. Yeah, the Human Torch has, like, a snowboard with him at all times, even though they're in New York City. And then there's the BMX sequence, too, where he reveals, he comes up with the nicknames for the members of the Fantastic Four in a post-race interview at a BMX. At the X Games, yeah. It feels like some Fox executive was like, my kid can't stop talking about these X Games. Can we put three X Games sequences in this movie?

Like, everything in the movie feels like some executive thought hurt a kid it's like well this 14 year old i fuck told me that this is cool everyone in hollywood's a degenerate you've got welsh character actor joan griffith a terrible casting choice as mr fantastic i mean he's basically just playing like a stodgy person a non-entity of a character he never comes across as truly smart and he never comes across. No, he doesn't. He comes across as a fucking idiot. He comes across as mad.

Because he's like, he's like always being stomped on by everyone else. And like he's supposedly like Sue Storm is like his old flame and he doesn't seem to get that she like likes him or might care how he feels about her. In the comics and the movies laying this really hard, there's sometimes the sense of like Doom was with Sue before Reed. he feels about her. In the comics, the movie's laying this really hard. There's sometimes the sense of like, Doom was with Sue before Reed. They keep swapping Sue. Right.

And a lot of their rivalry comes... We have to talk about Jessica Alba as Sue Storm. She's in white face, basically. She's wearing a blonde wig and blue contact lenses. She's a Latina woman. And they try their hardest to make her look as Caucasian as possible. Which is insane.

She looks... She looks like an alien. Yeah, she looks like an alien. She looks like white chicks. She looks like... She looks like white chicks. She looks like Marlon Wayans in white chicks. And there's this somewhat creepy sequence where she has to undress in public.

There are three sequences where that happens, David. It's crazy. There are three... There that happens, David. It's crazy. There are three, there's one sequence where she's out on the street and she gets mobbed by fans because they want to hit home this idea that they're

public celebrities. Right. And she's so uncomfortable by the fact that she's being mobbed and recognized by everyone. Because it's like, she sees a newsstand

and the tabloid covers are like, Invisible Woman, what's she wearing? Like, whatever it is. And then they're like, that's her. And she goes,

ah, she disappears but her clothes are still there. And they she's right there so then she just takes off her bra there's like a cgi floating that happens more she takes off and runs naked it happens again on the bridge sequence in the bridge yeah the bridge sequence where she rematerializes in her underwear because she can't control her quote control her powers and everyone looks at her and she goes oh it does like the cheesecake pose where she's covering herself up. Yeah. She's also supposed to play a scientist in the movie.

I guess so. Is not convincing. I mean, there's no mention of science in this movie, though. It's like Victor Von Doom like runs like some sort of science corporation or, you know, NASA, the military. There's no like application of their science. Michael Chiklis, who is far and away the shortest actor in the cast, plays the thing.

He's the best one of them. I disagree. Who do you think's better? I think Chris Evans is good. Evans is okay. His character is impossible. Yeah, it was poorly written, but I think he actually, you see how he could have played a good Human Torch.

Yeah, maybe. Chickliss is wearing a suit made of Silly Putty. He's wearing like a rubber suit. I think he's all right. He's supposed to be made of rocks. And when he bends his arm, there are creases in the rocks. I know. And there's a moment at which a bird poops on him and he like rubs it off.

And it's literally like he where it's like he's made of fabric yeah yeah it's he I still think he's the best though the movie cost tens of millions of dollars yeah and that's what the suit looks like because they didn't have fucking time to develop anything all right it didn't cost it didn't cost a lot though right didn't it cost like like 75 million they said it cost 100 it would definitely

cost like 75 they definitely said it cost more because they want to make it look like a serious movie it didn't cost a lot. Yeah. They do test screenings. The movie's a disaster. In between. Oh, we should mention Julian McMahon of Nip Tuck plays Victor Von Doom.

Yeah. Yeah. Who's now like a Trump-like businessman. He's so bad. He's a Trump-like businessman who is on the expedition with them. Yeah. And he gets lightning powers. Yeah.

He gets lightning powers and like metal them. Yeah. And he gets lightning powers. Yeah, he gets lightning powers and metal skin. Right, because a key detail to Doctor Doom was that he was not part of the expedition. No. Part of what drove him is that he felt left out. Yeah, but also that he's terribly vain, and that's why he wears this mask. Right. The superpowers he gets, which are his powers of sorcery, are things he learns. He's not hit by an accident.

He doesn't get hit by cosmic waves. Well, they do it in the train. All of them fucking do this thing where he's part of the expedition and then he gets weird metal powers. He starts turning into metal. And I love the fact that it's like the idea was he got a very small scar

on his face. He was so vain. He said, give me a mask and to cover it up. He grabbed the mask before it was finished. He fucking scar on his face. Yeah, in the comics. He said, give me a mask and to cover it up. He grabbed the mask before it was finished. He fucking burned his whole face.

And he wears the suit of armor to go along with it. It's his ancient, like, familial coat of arms. And he wears that. And now he's this terrifying man who owns the fact

that he's, like, a dude in a suit of armor. And they all make it like he's slowly turning into tin. Yeah. I mean, the first, it's like he's in the story. Skin's peeling off.

Skin's peeling off. He's got metal showing. He's unhappy about this. He hates it. But he also likes it. He likes the power. Because he's like, power. Yeah, exactly.

But the power, like you say, is just he shoots lightning. He shoots lightning. Yeah. And there's this climax where they beat him together. On one block. They just hang out on one street corner. Yeah. And there's this climax where they beat him together. On one block. They just hang out on one street corner. Yeah. They have one street corner to shoot on.

He starts shooting some people. They're like, nope. Yeah. They like wrap him up. They force field him. They meddle him. I mean, they like punch him. They set him on fire.

Whatever. They sort of freeze him, basically. Yeah. And then you think like, oh, this is like in every superhero movie where it looks like he's defeated, but he's going to come back and do, like, more things and be even more. No, that's the end. That's the end.

It's like, great, we did it at the end. High five, everyone. The end tag is they put him in a box, his frozen body, and the label on the box says Latveria. And it's like, oh, he's getting shipped off to the country that we know he rules. Right. Dumb. Dumb.

Fucking dumb. There's exactly one moment in the film I like. What is it? It's not even perfect. You gotta swallow that bagel. Gotta swallow this motherfucking bagel. There's one moment that I think gets at the spirit of the thing. That is almost a good, well-observed character moment.

Victor Von Doom, now wearing a mask, because he feels like it, even though his face is turning to metal, gets a grenade launcher, like a rocket-powered grenade launcher, and goes to the top of his building and just starts shooting it off the top of the building. Right.

He's shooting it towards their building because he wants to kill them. Yeah. This is all totally unjustified. It makes no sense. It goes from zero to 1,000. And then is all totally unjustified. It makes no sense. It goes from zero to a thousand. And then there's this human torch. Is that the scene you like?

Yeah. So he sees the missile coming towards him and they look at it. Yeah, he flames on. And he runs towards it. It's just this line. You like that line? I think in a better movie, this would be a decent character beat. Sue says, Johnny, don't even think about it.

And he says, I never do. And he jumps off and flame on. I don't think it's a funny line. I don't think it's a funny line I don't think it's a witty line I think it actually kind of captures the character for one moment is that Johnny is not a good person he's alright he's a very selfish person

when he's a hero it's always just sort of out of vanity yeah kind of you know he loves the attention he likes the power. He likes attention. He likes his family. He loves the power. He likes showing off. He likes his family.

He'll protect them. But it's like he's not going to chase this missile, which is, oh, it's heat-seeking. Yeah, that's the idea. Ugh. He, like, drives it into, like, an oil tank or something. He drives it into my butthole and I fart. It's the worst movie.

But I like that one moment. Kerry Washington plays the thing's girlfriend. He's not doing it to save the day. He doesn't think about it. He's just, I never do. I'm just going to do this because I like flying. It's fine. Kerry Washington plays his blind girlfriend who's a sculptress.

The thing's blind girlfriend, yeah. There's a big set piece scene on a bridge where the thing wants to kill himself because he goes to visit his wife after he's turned into a rock monster. She doesn't want to hang out with him. She doesn't want to hang out with him. She thinks he's grody. And so. Yeah, there's a long. There's a big plot thread about the thing like unthinging himself. They try to unthang.

Which is something they do in the Trank movie too. Yeah, they go to a bridge. A bird poops on him. He gets angry so he walks off the bridge and then a car hits him. And then that's the other big set piece. And then they just have to deal with a car. A multi-car pileup. So they have to all

like come and save him which includes Jessica Olive being her panties. It's the fucking worst. And then right when they finally solve the problem

they save the day and everyone cheers the Fantastic Four for the first time publicly even though they're responsible for the entire thing happening. Everyone's cheering

going yeah Fantastic Four and it's that level of like extra work where it's people holding up two like number one fingers and going yeah Fantastic Four and it's that level of like extra work where it's people holding up two like number one fingers and going yeah Fantastic Four his ex-fiance just mysteriously I believe played by Brigitte Wilson

Sampras am I right? Laurie Holden of The Walking Dead and X-Files fame. What movie was Brigitte Wilson Sampras in? Anyway go on. Bill Madison Well okay sure yes I was just like go on carry on she. Well, okay, sure. Yes. I was just like, go on, carry on. She shows up.

Lori Holden. Suddenly, at this crowd scene on a bridge that was blocked off, she shows up in like a negligee and just looks at him.

She wears a negligee in all of her scenes. Yeah. And just shakes her head and then takes the engagement ring off her finger and throws it on the ground and walks away.

That's the level of screenwriting in this movie. That people just show up at moments, even though it doesn't make sense how they got there, where they were, how they knew where anyone was, and they just do symbolic gestures. The movie is terrible. It makes a lot of money.

It makes a good amount of money. It opens to, I think, $60 million opening weekend. I saw it. Ten years ago. I saw it. Opening weekend. A big stat was that year was really, really bad for the box office

in North America. And every week was down from previous weeks. From previous years, rather. Yeah. So they always,

a fucking serious box office appointment, they always do this thing where it's like, compared to the weekend of September 7th, 2013,

box office sales are up 30% or down 20%. And every single weekend was down. The summer was down. Yeah, and it was up. You're saying this was the up week. This was the first up week all year. So Fantastic Four got an unnecessary boost because it looked like it was saving the summer. It made $150 million in the U.S.

Yeah, and it cost $750 million. It did well. So they immediately greenlit a sequel, and they thought the sequel, we're going to expand. We're going to go even bigger. We're bringing in the silver surfer. Right. It made the exact same amount of money.

Yeah. It cost a lot more. God, that movie was marketed really heavily. Yeah. They did the Galactus arc. Kind of. Well, right. The most famous. Galactus arc the most famous Galactus eater of worlds

intergalactic creature who literally eats planets has the potential to be the Marvel Universe's greatest disaster movie like a beautiful Roland Emmerich movie where suddenly this horned armored giant comes in and starts destroying your world

and who can save us only the Fantastic Four and the Silver Surfer and the Watcher and the Ultimate Lullifier in this movie Galactus is a cloud yeah he's a cloud

mostly it's the Silver Surfer arrives yeah and he's like played by Lawrence Fishburne's voice and Doug Jones' body and Doug Jones' body and he

sort of his rock hard shiny he surfs around yeah he does a lot of surfing. At one point, Dr. Doom gets his board

or something. Yeah, Dr. Doom comes back and he's got a new suit of armor and he's riding like a disc. Yeah. And then he gets the surfboard and then he's surfing too.

And isn't there like Silver Surfer kind of falls in love with the Invisible Woman with the suit. Yeah, the beginning of the movie is their wedding.

Yeah. And Steve, not Steve, Brian Posain is the minister. Yeah, and Stan Lee tries to get into the wedding and they're like, you can't come in. He's like, but I'm Stan Lee. He says it. Which is so frustrating because the one. It's the one time that he plays himself. Maybe.

Well, and also in the first movie, they have him play Willie Lumpkin. Fantastic Four's mailman, who they always jokingly say is the fifth member. And it was cool that he got to play a character that he created. It wasn't just a cameo. It was like, horny old man. It's like he's playing a Stan Lee character. Yeah, well, in the second movie, he played Stan Lee. Right.

Fuck the movie. Andre Brower is in it. Yeah, given nothing to do other than go, listen, Fantastic. He's the general. I don't think you should. He probably got like- So much money. And he's a pro. He's a great actor. He hits his marks.

Look, he won an Academy Award and he deserved it. For Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer. For Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer. Right. Yeah, that movie basically relegates Mr. Fantastic even. It's like he doesn't matter. We don't like him. The Silver Surfer interrupts their wedding

yeah and the human torch chases him that's maybe the one good action sequence is that chase yeah which was the trailer the entire trailer was just that sequence the first movie was really kind of a kid's movie yeah they test screened it it didn't go well so they went let's add in more like kids humor so there's a lot of like ben and johnny fucking with each other which is a staple of the comics but in a really goofy like nickelodeon sitcom kind of way yeah it's really bad there's a lot of like ben and johnny fucking with each other which is a staple of the comics but in a really goofy like nickelodeon sitcom kind of way yeah it's really bad there's a montage of them adjusting to heaven powers that includes a shot of mr fantastic reaching out of the bathroom to get toilet paper stretching to get toilet paper because maybe his butthole is poopy and he doesn't he's got a stretchy arm so he's gonna that's that's the thing that's in the they

don't know what to do with the stretch. They don't know what to do. You know? They never... Even though that's visually the best power. Second movie, they try to get a little more serious. They do this ballsy action sequence, and then a big thing where... And the Nolan movie had come out, and so it's like, all right, well, superheroes can be serious.

Batman Begins came out the same year as the first Fantastic Four, which is a really, really interesting case of indifference. And just took a big shit all over its face. Yeah. There's a big midsection where they all swap powers so they're all like, Yes, right.

I forgot about that. Human Torch is Rocky and the thing is fiery and then they have all the powers at the same time. Sue's kind of interested in Silver Surfer.

Most of his role is just him saying like, shit's coming. And then the cloud comes. And then the cloud doesn't come. It's the worst movie. It's a bad movie. Anyway.

And then that was it. No more Fantastic Four. That movie's a bad movie. Anyway. And then that was it. No more Fantastic Four. That movie costs a lot more. And it makes the exact same amount of money. And then Chris Evans quickly goes off to do Captain America just a couple years later. Right. And they go it's done. And that's it. But as soon as four or five years later, Fox is apparently considering rebooting the characters.

Because if they don't, they will lose the rights. And at this point, Marvel is scooping the rights back. They're going, we're making our movies our way so other people can't fuck them up and hire Tim Story. Well, also, you know, integrating them all into this big shared world. All of that. Right. And important to note that Fantastic Four were the first family. That as they're establishing this timeline of all these characters, it becomes harder and harder to even imagine Marvel being able to integrate

Fantastic Four into their universe. They could do it. They could. But it would be weird. The idea is they are first. It's true. They were the first. They're kind of their first.

Right? So, mumblings. Maybe they're trying to do this. Maybe they're trying to do that. They're going to make it at some point. Because Marvel would love to get the characters back. And then this movie Chronicle comes out. It's solid.

I don't like it. You don't, you... I dislike that movie. Dislike it. But people like it. I think it's solid. Don't like that movie. I think more than anything,

it's like a really good showcase reel for Josh Trank as a filmmaker. That's exactly what it is. It's not a great movie, but it's a really good showcase reel. It's a found footage movie. He's got good performances from his actors. He casts...

With Dane DeHaan and Michael B. Jordan and another guy. Who's the other guy? Who knows? The one who's furious and punches the wall. And it's about some kids who get powers. They can fly. They're telekinetic.

For some reason, they shoot everything on a video camera. It's a found footage movie, but it's one of the found footage movies that actually uses found footage well. Kind of, except by the end, they do have to be like, I'm going to bring the camera with me. Sure. Okay. Which is my problem with found footage.

But it uses it better and sticks to it as a cinematic device more than most of these fucking movies. I don't like that movie. It's too self-serious. It's like, Dane DeHaan's character's really, I don't like that movie. It costs like $15 million to make. Yeah, it costs no money and it makes tons.

And the effects are great. Yeah, it looks good. And it makes a lot of money. So everyone goes, ooh, this guy's interesting. It makes total sense. Fox goes, maybe this is our in-house guy. Maybe we can incubate him and make him to us what Christopher Nolan is to Warner Brothers. He had made small-scale films.

I gave him Batman, and now he's their big tentpole guy. So they went, what can we get Trank on? Fantastic Four. Trank, do you have any ideas for Fantastic Four? And Trank goes, yeah, this is what I would do with Fantastic Four. I'd try to make it really grounded and gritty. I'd make them young i'd make them emotionally tortured so right now it sounds like he's just pitching chronicle

and like he wants to make like a body horror movie he wants to make he wants like their transformations into these things kind of scary and weird yeah whereas usually it's like cosmic rays crazy and it's fantastic three of them are like fantastic and the thing's like i hate my body my i'm i suck you know that's the only conflict colors fun and all this magical power he's gonna do this like creepy sci-fi horror skew like you know whatever what is your response when you hear this at the time? This is like 2012, maybe. That sounds shitty. Okay, these are my feelings. I go, that doesn't sound like the Fantastic Four movie I want.

That doesn't sound like the one I drew on my notebooks. No. But at this point, I have seen three shitty movies. This sounds so far away from what Tim's story did, which was my least favorite take anyone could do. I understand. And I thought that too. I would rather someone make a good movie with these characters that doesn't classically represent them than make another shitty movie.

Right. Homogenized. It sounds like he has a strong take on it at the very least, which I'm excited by. Right. I go, I'll wait and see. He casts four very strong young actors. Miles Teller? Yeah.

Kate Mara? Okay, Miles Teller is way too young, and when he was cast, I was like, yeah, Miles Teller was good in Whiplash and The Spectacular Now, playing an 18-year-old, but why would he be Mr. Fantastic? The Fantastic Four should be in their 40 i believe this strongly of course i think johnny should be younger yeah and the rest of them should

be like they can be in their 30s to 40s i think mr fantastic should be 40 ben graham should be around 40 in the comic book originally at least mr fantastic's like a lot older than the invisible woman and it is creepy and the the Roger Corman movie does that. Yeah, it does. When he first meets Sue, she's a little girl. Because he has great temples. He's a professor that she has a cue on. That's in the comics.

She has a crush on him. She thinks he's cute. I like that they did that. Because I like creepy things. So Miles Teller. Kate Mara. They make them all little kids. Kate Mara was in House of Cards, which she was fine in.

And she's really great in two scenes in Brokeback Mountain, but I'm not exactly going around saying, like, hey, Kate Mara is the greatest. She's solid. Michael B. Jordan's Human Torch. Great casting. I love Michael B. Jordan. Great choice. He's super fucking charismatic. Jamie Bell is the thing. Makes no sense. Jamie Bell

is so pretty. Why would you make him the thing? Well, a couple things. Once again, Ben Grimm should be a big guy. Yeah. Not like a wiry little five foot seven Brit with a dancer's body. And they keep on talking. And like a chiseled jaw. In this Josh Trank movie, they keep on saying he's pretty in a very

delicate way. They keep on saying in this Josh Trank movie, like, Ben, he's the muscle. He's the bruiser. He's supposed to be a rough kid. He's rough and tumble. I think the reason they hired him was because Jamie Bell has proven himself to be a master of motion

capture. I see. He's done a lot of motion capture work and he played Tintin and he's very good at it. He's fine in the movie. Along with Andy Serkis, the two people who have stood out in motion capture work are Jamie Bell and Toby Kebbell, who is cast as Victor Von capture work are Jamie Bell and Toby Kebbell, who is cast as Victor Fontaine.

Wait, what was Toby Kebbell? He was Koba in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, which is, I think, a phenomenal performance. And there was another motion capture movie he did that I can't remember now. I'm gonna look it up. Toby Kebbell, who I mostly know as a character

in the Black Mirror episode, The Entire History of You. That's mostly what I know that actor from. I think he's a fine actor. He's fine. You're saying he's a fine actor. I think he's a fine actor. He's in Wrath of the Titans. Yeah, that movie rules.

Does it, though? No, it doesn't. Yeah, Black Mirror. Nothing really. He's really good in Sorcerer's Apprentice Oh fuck off I'll fuck off Anyway

he's a young British actor Their take is more inspired by the ultimate Fantastic Four in which they all meet in their early 20s It's not my favorite interpretation of the character

It's this stupid comic that Marvel I like the ultimate line but not ultimate They all meet in their 20s It's sort of a Harry Potter type thing where it's like

the school for the most brilliant science kids and they all meet there and then they become the fantastic four traveling to different dimensions rather than into space they go into alternate dimensions and that's what this movie does yeah and maybe original comics have that too the negative zone these sort of alternate dimensions they go to but it seems like for the first time we're gonna get a fantastic four movie whether or not it's the right singularity yes yes exactly now max landis was originally going to write a Fantastic Four movie, whether or not it's the right vision. That has singularity of vision. Yes. Yes, exactly. Now, Max Landis was originally going to write the movie, right? And then he

exited for some reason. Yes. He had written Chronicle. They turned down his pitch. Yeah. They picked up another script, which was recently reviewed by Devin Faraci over at Birth Movies Death. And that script sounds perfect. Who's it

by? Jeremy Slater, who I think still gets co-screenwriting credit on this film. But his film started, essentially, what is Josh Trank's Fantastic Four? The entire story that comprises that entire film was the first act of this script. And you don't have me so far, because it's not like the first act is. Anyway, go on. No, no, no. I'm saying everything that happens. Oh, yeah.

That makes sense. Was condensed to 30 minutes. That's what should have happened. Exactly. Yeah. That's act one. Okay. And then the mole man who lost funding for his.

Right. Who is Tim Blake Nelson. To create life. Yeah. Because they put the funding into the Fantastic Four instead, unleashes a giant monster. The Fantastic Four escape from their containment unit, fight the giant moloid on Fifth Avenue,

are publicly now revealed to the world the government has to weaponize them and make them a team. They fight Victor Von Doom, who builds Latveria in the alternate. It sounds awesome. Galactus is in it. The setup for the second movie. Wait, Galactus is in it too? The setup is that he findsveria in the alternate. It sounds awesome. Galactus is in it. The setup for the second movie.

Wait, Galactus is in it too? The setup is that he finds Galactus in the negative zone. Uh-huh. And Doctor Doom is threatening to unleash Galactus on the world. Okay. All right. That sounds like a lot, but that sounds okay. It sounds like a good script.

And he did get credit, as you say, along with Kimber and Trank. Yeah. They got scared that it was too expensive. Yeah. And it was too weird. Well, why are Fox just such cheapskates? Scaredy cats?

Well, I think also because Josh Trank's a young director. He's unproven. He hasn't worked with a big budget. But they want to work in the Fantastic Heart.

They want to work in Herbie the Robot. They want to work in all these elements of the lore in this sort of modern way. It wasn't your grandpa's Fantastic Four.

It wasn't my Fantastic Four but it was a Fantastic Four. Alright. Anyway, it didn't happen. It didn't happen. Yeah. Something fucking happened with this movie. We don't my Fantastic Four, but it was a Fantastic Four. All right. Anyway, it didn't happen. It didn't happen. Yeah. Something fucking happened with this movie. We don't really, we should say, we don't totally, no one totally knows what happened with this movie.

It's sort of one of the greatest filmmaking mysteries right now. Yeah, and I'm sure more will come out. Because the movie, when you watch it, is completely bizarre. It takes place almost entirely in a lab. It's barely coherent. It takes place in one location. Yeah. It has almost no action in it.

90% of the scenes that were in the trailers are not in the film, including action set pieces. There's tons of stuff in the trailer that's not in the movie. The movie was obviously reshot because Kate Meyers was wearing this horrible wig. Yeah. So there's all this stuff that was obviously edited. At like four different points it skips ahead a year. Yes. Yeah.

There's one scene with Victor Von Doom where he's this like bearded hackered hacker right at the beginning called, like, you know, Doom.com or whatever. And then he's, like, in a scene that is very clearly completely ADR'd. Like, they cut to, like, wide shots so you can't see the people talking. It's like, get back to the Doom. Clean yourself up, Doom. Like, get back to the lab. And so then Doom shows up in like reshoot mode as like another scientist there's a lot of that and uh tim blake nelson's character was supposed to be the

wall man they change his name so that he's not he's in it but he's yeah he's just a grump but they change his name through adr only when people's mouths are off screen do they refer to him and not as dr harvey elder but whatever his fucking name is mr john businessman and victor von doom Victor Von Doom, in the script, they were going to call him Victor Von Damn. And they, like, shunned all 380 yards. The movie is so compromised and so weird. There was some movie that Trank made. Yes. It was presented, obviously presented to the studio.

The studio hated it. The one thing I have heard conclusively is that, like, six months before they were going to film, they got cold feet at his take, cut his budget in half. That's so strange. Why would you do that? Why is that going to make a good movie? And they commissioned a rewrite and they said, take the first act of this script and make it the whole film. The things that happen in Act 2 and 3 are really expensive.

So maybe they just decided, look, this movie is not going to make money. Let's cut our losses before we even start production. I think it was cynical. I don't think they thought it's not going to make money. Let's cut our losses before we even start production. I think it was cynical. I don't think they thought it's not going to make money. I think they thought Marvel's such a strong brand. Superheroes are so big. Oh, like we don't even need to make an effort. We can release fucking whatever and it'll do well.

Well, that's not smart. It made less in its entire run than the two Tim Story movies did in their opening weekend 10 years ago. Yeah. It is a massive bomb. It's a huge bomb. And it's a weird, weird neither fish nor fowl of a massive bomb it's a huge bomb and it's a weird weird neither fish nor fowl of a film it's a terrible movie and trank tweeted something along the lines of like

i had a great movie like a year ago you wish you could have seen it and then he deleted it immediately obviously i don't doubt his version was better no, I'll tell you why. Because I always will prefer a cohesive vision to a mishmash. Yeah. I would rather see his version of the movie, even if it doesn't work. It's hard to imagine there would be a worse movie. Because this movie barely makes sense on a scene-to-scene basis. It doesn't make any sense. I was admittedly very drunk when I watched it because I

I was sober. I went into it like a judge. Like a battered. As the judge. I was sober as the judge, which is not very sober. Isn't he drunk all the time? No, he's sobered up now because... Oh, but he has a brain tumor.

Yeah. Or whatever. Right, you went in sober, I went in with a brain tumor. No, my relationship with these Fantastic Four movies, it's like an abusive relationship. And I put off seeing the movie for weeks

because I didn't want to go through it. And I thought it was actually going to hurt me, honestly. And so I brought beer into the theater and I got very drunk when I watched and by the end of it I was just loudly sighing and like throwing up my hands I saw with my friend Orlando Ali and I was like fucking come on uh everything about it just pissed me off so much because I truly love these characters as much as I love any characters in pop culture and there are moments brief moments at this point I'll take what I can fucking

get but there are moments where I just see the four appropriate colors on the screen at the same time and I get I get the pangs of like I could there could be a Fantastic Four movie like you see orange and red and blue and Sue sort of white ish bluish thing and I go

the powers are happening at the same time for half a second. This movie isn't working, but I see the power the Fantastic Four movie could have. It's like, the movie has no set pieces except for, so the movie is, yeah,

they go to this special school, basically. The first 45 minutes are introducing all the characters poorly. So you got Mr. Fantastic is this, like, boy genius whose dad is Tim Heidecker, and he's like, I would love to talk to Tim Heidecker about this.

Tim Heidecker, who, by the way, is, like 7th build in the end credits I don't know if you noticed that no I did notice it of course it's insane he's in one scene for one second sitting on a chair and he's just like yeah yeah yeah turn that fucking machine off

Sue Storm is the adopted like Bosnian refugee daughter of Franklin Storm who's played by Reggie Cathy. A great character actor. And then Michael B. Jordan plays Johnny, his son. Who has left the world of science behind, just wants to race cars. He's like a mechanic, basically, but he can build anything.

Yeah, they say. So he's brought in to build a time machine, essentially, or a fucking wormhole machine. Ben Grimm gets beaten regularly by his brother growing up who is played by, did you notice this? Who played Ben Grimm's abusive brother? The thing's catchphrase is his clobbering time. In this film, the opening scene, his brother's beating him and he goes, oh, it's clobbering time.

And it beats the shit out of him. It's like, oh, this is why Ben Grimm has a chip on his shoulder. Playing the role of whatever his name was, Jimmy Grimm, Chet Hayes. Oh, no, I did know that. Right, yeah. Rapper and son of Tom Hanks, Chet Hayes. It's, again, one scene. Yeah, but why was Chet Hayes. Oh, no, I did know that. Right, yeah, yeah. Rapper and son of Tom Hanks, Chet Hayes. It's, again, one scene.

Yeah, but why was Chet Hayes in that movie? Well, they must have shot more of that. Because there's no way... I'm not asking why would he take a part in that song. I'm saying why did they choose him to play any part in that song? He's fine. He has a good performance. I think he's great.

Great job, Chet Hayes. Okay, okay. He's okay. The first 45 minutes are just... And Ben Grimm's not really involved in the first 45. That's it. He's Reed's friend. They're best friends at school.

Once he gets recruited, he's like, I don't belong here, and he leaves. And he's gone, and he's working in some auto repair shop. The five main characters don't end up in the same city until minute 55, maybe? Doom is there, too, and he's like a rival. They get drunk. Their funding gets cut. They go, you built the interdimensional travel machine

but we're going to hire other NASA scientists to go in and actually pilot it. They get drunk and they go, fuck that. Let's drunkenly go tonight. In a scene that feels like it was written on a napkin, they get drunk and all of a sudden decide that because we went to the moon,

man, and we built this thing, we should be able to use it. Makes no sense. This is also over an hour into the film. And you're like, please, someone do something. The Fantastic Four do not go on the expedition that turns them into the Fantastic Four until over an hour into the film. This Tim Story movie, that's 10 minutes in. So of course, the four people you expect go inside the ship. This Tim story movie that's 10 minutes in. So of course the four people

you expect go inside the ship. Reed Richards, of course. Johnny Storm. He smashes cars so his dad said you have to help fix this machine. Yeah, he's there too. Right. They call up Ben Grimm at 3 o'clock in the morning. He shows up. They go get on a Metro North. He lives in upstate New York. They go get on a Metro North.

Can you be here in two hours? We're going to do a 5 a.m. drunk run to an alternate dimension. Right? He gets there. And then, of course, the fourth member is? Victor Von Doom. Because Sue Storm's sleeping. Yeah.

Because Sue Storm is not even really a fucking member of this movie. Not really. So they all go off. No, but her power is pattern recognition. She fucking recognizes patterns on computer screens. When she listens to her Beats by Dre headphones. Yeah, and her power is that she's not into Reed Richards and he's thirsty. He's mad thirsty.

He's mad thirsty, bro. Anyway, so they go to an alternate dimension. Yeah, she wakes up and is like, you guys went to the alternate dimension. Oh, no. So she gets on her computer, tries to pull them out of it. They all get hit by waves. Dr. Doom gets left behind. They make it through.

When they come through on the other side. They do this really lame thing where it's like Reed Richards is hit by something stretchy and Johnny's set on fire. He's lighting a cigarette right as the machine goes off. And then the thing is covered in space rock. Yeah. And then when they come through

on the other side, there's a residual wave that hits Sue Storm. So Sue Storm lacks the agency to even be part of the team, go on the trip, explore the other dimension. And Doctor Doom's left behind there. And now like an hour and 15 minutes into the movie We cut to one year later. They do five minutes of the body horror shit. There's

five minutes that I think kind of works. It's really weirdly edited. It's clearly ADR'd. But there's some interesting imagery in it. It doesn't work because you're so annoyed at the movie. There's interesting imagery. I mean, the idea of Reed's stretchy thing hurting imagery in it. It doesn't work because you're so annoyed at the movie, but like you know, there's a context in which it could have worked. I mean, the idea of Reed's stretchy thing hurting.

Yes. I don't like that. It's stupid. It shouldn't hurt. Like, that's not the idea of that power. If you want to make it scary, make him scared by what's happening. Not because it hurts, because it looks weird and that's a terrifying reality. So anyway, then he stretches into an air shaft and he goes to see Ben, who's just a pile of rocks.

And he's like, I'll help you, Ben. Don't worry. I'm going to help you. And then he runs away. A year later, he's living in Albania. It's the worst. And he's using his strength powers to make his face look like someone a little bit different than Miles Teller. So no one can recognize him.

Ben Grimm is being weaponized by the military, but that sequence has been cut out of the movie it's in the trailers but it's cut out of the movie you see a video of it of him going and fucking fighting and you're like oh why didn't we please could we see him i'll watch that that's fine is ben gonna punch some people i'll watch that the entire movie takes place in this one fucking lab they get reed richards back because they're getting weird signals no pattern recognition punch some people? I'll watch that. The entire movie takes place in this one fucking lab, essentially. It takes place in a lab. They get Reed Richards back because they're getting weird signals. No, pattern recognition.

The pattern, Dr. Doom's there. No, but no, they're like, you know, invisible woman, Sue, she won't do it. And they're like,

Sue, you gotta do it because Dr. Doom's in there maybe. And she's like, all right, I'll use my pattern recognition powers and finds him

even though none of them could find him. It doesn't matter. And he comes through and he starts busting heads. And Human Torch has torch has firepower yeah he just hangs out in a room he makes heads explode and they're like dr doom makes that's what i'm saying i was saying i was just talking about human torch okay dr doom comes through and he makes heads explode he's like a metal man he's a metal man with lightning power and his he doesn't even really have lightning he

just has head exploding he like makes a humming noise, and then their heads explode. Yeah. That's Bagel. This all happens in the movie. That's a good Bagel. And then he goes back to his doom zone, and they go in there with him. They chase him. And for the first time at hour 1, minute 40 of the film, the Fantastic Four suits up together

in the same frame. Kind of. Not really. Like, there's a shot suits up together in the same frame. Kind of. Not really. Like, there's a shot. They go to the alternate zone. They don't really work together. For three minutes. There's a three minute sequence. And Mr. Fantastic says something along the lines of like, he's stronger

than any of us, but he's not stronger than all of us. And then... Oh, we're a team? I didn't know. The most mind-bogglingly confusing CGI ensues. Nothing that happens makes sense. It's chaos. And it's clearly... Nothing that happens to me. And I'm not being hyperbolic. No, nothing makes sense. No.

And then they defeat him. It ended and Orlando said to me, my friend Orlando, who I saw it with, turned to me and said, I don't understand how they beat Doctor Doom. What just happened? You don't understand. No, you don't. It's chaos. It clearly was like they used the fact that the thing in Human Torture largely CGI and used stand-in

for Kate Mara and then a wig and like none of the actors, Lucas and I, were clearly in the same place at the same time. And they cut it together and it's chaos

and then it ends and then it cuts to another year later and they come to their lab and they're like, nice new digs. Well, I guess we're a team now. What should we call ourselves?

And they're like, the awesome four, The Awesome Four, The Cool Group, The Rad Quartet, and it's like, I don't know, something fantastic. And it's like, wait, say that again. And he goes, oh, you mean the, and then cut to black directed by Josh Trank. They do the same

fucking end tag that Avengers or Javoltron does. It's not their fault. They can't have known. Yeah, but it's also dumb. It is super. It's really annoying. The whole movie, they're wearing these drab black suits, like containment suits.

They're in the lab. There's one fight. It's the worst movie. It really is. And, yeah, see, you're, yeah. But. I went, no, no but. It's better than the Tim Story one.

I don't think so. I think it is. No, it's not. It's not better than anything. In the moments where it works for four seconds at a time. It's one of the so. I think it is. No, it's not. It's not better than anything. In the moments where it works for four seconds at a time. It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. The Tim Story movies are aggressively mediocre

and thus awful to watch and a really painful experience and he lights the whopper on fire and you're just so mad at them. But like they do have, like I said, the Tim Story movies, it's like scene one. Dr. Doom, we need to get up to this space station.

You're clearly watching scenes in order. That's what you're saying. Scene two, we're on the space station. We got our powers. Scene three, we have our powers. There's linear story progression, which the Trank movie lacks. But here's the, David, I don't even think we can judge the Trank movie because it's not a movie. It's like he made a movie and they threw half of it out.

Well, fuck Fox. I don't care. Fox, Trank. The blank check in this case is that Fox and Roger Corman, all these people, had this money to make whatever they wanted to make. And every time they fucked up and made the most cynical cash grab product with disdain for the audience. Yeah. These characters that make me happy, David. I'm a sad boy and few things make me happy in this world.

And every time I look at the Fantastic Four I get happy and I believe that amazing things can happen. I do. In the comic book. I have stickers on my wall and I look at the Fantastic Four and I feel good for a second. We all hate each other but we can maybe work together for just a second.

My family doesn't get along. My dad spent all the money. I'm cutting this rant short. I don't want to hear it anymore. We can be fantastic. I went into this movie. Ben is like just reaching for the knobs. Ben hates this episode. Ben hates it. I went into this movie. You know, you had heard

bad things. Yeah. But Simon Kinberg was involved, right? He made the X-Men reboot. They're fine. So you think like, alright, look. I know we didn't even mention, we'd heard Josh Trank. There's all these crazy stories about Josh Trank couldn't take the pressure and trashed a house. Got in a

fight with the county sheriff somewhere in Missouri or God knows where. His dogs caused $200,000 worth of damage to the house they rented. None of it makes any sense. The mythology behind the making of this film is insane. Lots of bad news. You saw a press screening. You saw it earlier.

That's what I'm saying. Then there was this interview with Simon Kinberg I think maybe that came out the day I went to the press screening where he was like I've seen the movie. It's not a catastrophe.

Yep. Which like you're like okay it's obviously a catastrophe. Paint praise. If the producer of the film is like look I've seen it and let me tell you

no children are killed on screen. John Landis did not direct this. Yes. And so I go to see the movie. I still think, look, the Tim story movies are horrible. They're horrid. But it's got to be better than those just because it's got an interesting cast and he's a bit more of a visual director. And it was worse. it's got to be better than those just because it's got an interesting cast and like, you know,

he's, he's a bit more of a visual director, like, you know, surely. And it was worse. That's all I have to say. I saw it with pretty good expectations.

Couldn't believe how bad the movie was. I don't even think it's a movie and I don't think we can judge it. I didn't enjoy watching it. It made me sad, but it's not a movie. And I would like to someday see Josh Trank's cut, which I also do not think is good, but I think would be a bad film as opposed to

a bad collection of they threw scenes in a hat and they juggled it up and they threw it in our face and they peed in our eyes. Yeah. I just spit bagel. You did. At the mic. David wrapping this episode up there's one film we haven't mentioned

which is the only good Fantastic Four movie I've ever made and it's from 2004. Oh, yeah. And it's called Brad Bird's Inc. Right. And this is what all, I mean, it's almost become a cliche to say it. Like, that's the good Fantastic Four movie. But it totally is.

But the point is. I mean, that movie is about a family dynamic of superheroes. And it might be the only good Fantastic Four movie we ever get. Because even if Fox lets the rights lapse 10 years from now. Which they won't. Right. But the soonest they would is 10 years from now. They won't.

They'll reboot it again. Well, they could sell it, I guess. You could buy it out, right? Marvel could maybe make them an offer they wouldn't refuse. But I don't know why Marvel right now would really be doing it. I also think the characters are so tarnished at this point that Marvel wouldn't want to bring them into their universe. Isn't Fantastic Four 2 still in development?

Yeah, they're claiming it's still in development, those fuckers. Like, I have read arguments that it's like, look, yeah, the movie was bad. You've got four actors locked into contract. Why don't you make another one? Like, it is kind of, it's like the definition of insanity. Or that they do it as a Fantastic Four X-Men crossover film, so it's not properly a sequel. There's no way that's happening now. Because Fox is like, we got one franchise.

We're not going to fucking get those Fantastic Fours in it. Yeah. But the fact is, they're damaged goods right now. And they were never as popular through other mediums, like cartoons, as the X-Men were, Spider-Man was, where there's sort of as much a cultural understanding in a widespread way of who these characters are. There were Fantastic Four cartoons, but never...

I went to a wedding this weekend. I was seated at the kids' table by request because adults are stupid. And I was talking to these kids about comic books because they knew I was a comic book nerd and they were like, oh, what do you think about this? You read this comic book, da-da-da-da.

And they were like, who's your favorite? And I was like, Fantastic Four. And they were like, Fantastic Four sucks. Marvel has phased Fantastic Four out of their comic book years because they don't have the rights and they don't want to put money in Fox's pocket.

They're not on any cartoon shows right now. They're not represented in video games and the movies that are out there for kids to watch are fucking garbage. So I don't even think

the announcement that Marvel had gotten the Fantastic Four back in their universe would be greeted with cheers by anyone other than the hardcore nerd fans. At this point Marvel just goes we're doing well enough.

We've got a good team. Yeah, forget it. It's sad because, like I said, Thor The Dark World, I do feel like the Marvel Studios tone would nail a fantastic form. And not to mention, Peyton Reed this year directed Ant-Man. He did a great job. He did a fine job. In difficult circumstances.

He did a great job. Jumping in late in the game. Totally true. Had to jump in with like eight weeks left before you know it's totally true but it has the right sense of humor that movie's great the way he visualizes some of the shrieking sequences feels fantastic and light hearted is terrific sure footed that movie is a mess but it is really good it's a solid fucking i think it's great you like it more than me i I like it a lot. You love it. Well, I saw it once and

had such bad expectations of it. And was so, I still am mad about the Edgar Wright thing. Although now it feels like the scapegoat for that is that fucking crazy guy who just got taken off the Marvel movies, the CEO of Marvel whatever. Pearl Mugler. Yeah, exactly. Well said there.

It's a two hour bagel. Yeah, seriously. That's a two-hour bagel. Yeah, seriously. That's a... Anyway. I went into Ant-Man after a press screening and I was like, I'm not going to like this. And then I was like,

oh no, I really like that. Then I saw it again like a civilian and was delighted by it. Have you seen it twice? No, I should see it a second time. I recommend seeing it a second time because the comic notes

are what really stand out. Which I think would be the key to making a Fantastic Four movie work. And Rudd's just great. Rudd's great. He'd be a great Mr. Fantastic as well. The Ruddster, I call him. The Ruddiest star we have today.

Yep. I don't know if we'll ever get a good Fantastic Four movie. We might have to settle for The Incredibles, which nails the family dynamic, which managed to nail the humor, the sense of wonder, the style. It feels like a 60s set film. It has those aesthetics. Yes.

I'll keep on trying. I have notebooks full of development sketches. Oh, yeah, you should pitch it. Who would you right now? Who would you? Because Clooney, you know, he's too old. Like, you know, who would you right now want to be in a Fantastic Four movie? God, I had my cast nailed down 10 years ago.

Who was it 10 years ago? John Cusack was going to be my Mr. Fantastic. Right, that would be horrible now. Right, in a Fantastic Four movie? God, I had my cast nailed down 10 years ago. Who was it 10 years ago? John Cusack was going to be my Mr. Fantastic. Right, that would be horrible now. Right, but 10 years ago it would have worked. Yeah, that's sort of the tail end of Cusack's. Maybe 12 years ago. Yeah, early 2000s. That'd be fine.

I think I wanted Naomi Watts as Invisible Woman. That's a very 10 years ago choice. Yeah. Billy Crudup as Victor Von Doom. That's okay. I've never been a big Billy Crudup fan. I like him a lot. I love him in Public Enemies.

He's really good in that. I have Paul Walker. He has no charisma. I love him. I love my Fantastic Four. I love my Furious family. Who's the thing? I might have said Michael Clarke Duncan at the time.

That was an obvious choice. That's hacky. That was hacky. Yeah, that was That's hacky. That was hacky. Yeah, that was hacky. I admit that was hacky. Michael Clark Duncan, it was just like, is the character large? Is he big? It's weird because Michael Clark Duncan's a good actor, but not in every circumstance.

I was 14. I was a hack. He's also dead now. He is dead. R.I.P. Michael Clark Duncan. R.I.P. Michael Clark Duncan. My favorite thing about Michael Clark Duncan is that he insisted on watching WWE Smackdown live every Friday night or whenever it aired.

And when he was nominated for an Oscar for the Green Mile, the president of the United States, George W. Bush, invited him to meet him, come to the White House. It was on a Friday night. And he was like, yeah, I'm not going to do it at Smackdown that night. That's amazing. He's the greatest. I met Peyton Reed once. I recognized him because I know what directors look like, especially secondary comedic directors. Right.

And I said, I'm sorry to bother you. I just need to ask you, what was your Fantastic Four movie going to be? I've heard snippets of it. Uh-huh. And it sounds so cool. Can you tell me more about it? And he said, honestly, man, I can't.

It's too painful for me to talk about. Okay. And this was five years before he gets Ant-Man. Right. He thought he was never going to get to make a superhero movie. Right. And he went, I think it was so good, and I think it could have been so exciting.

And the one they made was terrible. And he went, look, I don't want to badmouth any other director. I think Tim Story's done good work. And I went, I love Barbershop. He went, I love Barbershop, too. He said, I love Barbershop, comma, too. Not I love Barbershop, too, although I do love Barbershop, too, back in business. But he went, I just knew exactly what that property needed,

and I don't know if anyone's ever going to make the right movie. And then he looked at me and he said, I don't know, maybe you. David, he looked at me and he said, maybe you, maybe you'll be the one to do it someday. And you woke with a start. I don't know. I might have to wait 20 years. Ben?

I mean, we're doing Final Thoughts. Final Thoughts. So I just... You haven't seen any of these movies, correct? No. Yeah. I never liked Fantastic Four. But I did really always love Silver Surfer.

Cool guy. Cool guy. And I always loved Galactus. Galactus? Yeah. You Philistine. Sorry. Well, anyway, I looked up Guardians of the Galaxy to see if they were going to maybe

include that character or even Silver Surfer. Fox still has the rights. Yeah. Yeah. That stinks. They can't use the supporting character. That really, really stinks. They have the Celestials.

They're sort of doing Celestial stuff in Guardians of the Galaxy. That's too bad. Yeah. So I'm bummed. So you like the kind of whacked out stone space like, you know, cosmic shit. Yeah, I like that. You would. Final thoughts.

The Trank movie is the worst. No, it's not the worst here's my final ranking okay here are final thoughts final ranking yeah corman one uh-huh trank two silver surfer three first tim story four i think i go silver surfer tim story corman trank great So we're... The opposite. Yep. But I don't like any of them. No, they're all bad. It's like two out of five, one and a half out of five, one out of five, zero out of five. One final note. The Corman movie does have a really good score.

It does. It's actually somewhat beloved amongst movie scoreheads. It sounds like how the Fantastic Four should sound. I have to sign off. I do too. Thank you all for listening. Next week we'll be back with... Oh my God. Oh, it's actually really exciting. Revenge of the Fantastic Four should sound. I have to sign off. I do too. Thank you all for listening. Next week we'll be back with... Oh, it's actually really exciting.

Revenge of the Podcast. Star Wars Episode 3. It's going to be... It's going to rule. We're going to watch it. This one's going to be fucking good. We're going to get to watch a new Star Wars movie. He finished it out.

He did a trilogy. Oh, man. He finished his story. That's actually insane. All right. I love you all. Thank you all for listening. And as always.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for listening. And as always. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.