Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Portrait of a Lady with Marie Bardi

Episode Date: February 6, 2022

This lady might not be “on fire” but she IS wearing a 19 inch corset! Social media maven Marie Bardi joins the boys to dissect Campion’s tepidly received follow-up to “The Piano” - the emotionally claustrophobic 1996 Henry James adaptation “The Portrait of a Lady”. If “The Piano” gave Jane her Blank Check, this film is a big swing and (in our opinion) a slight miss. Topics discussed include: John Malkovich’s clothing line for the modern dandy; the unfortunate plastic surgery-shaming of actress Barbara Hershey; Viggo Mortsenson’s performance in “Green Book” (one of our favorite topics);  and, of course, the queen of AMC Theaters herself - Nicole Kidman. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

I know plenty of dingy podcasts I don't want to know anymore. If nothing else, the cadence, perfect. This is the thing. The thing with him is cadence. I think the volume and the cadence, I think I have, there's certain ways he pronounces certain words that I have not exactly nailed. certain ways he pronounces certain words that I have not exactly nailed. I really buy the argument that he is, that he makes, that he is a bad actor,

but there's just nobody like him. Like that's Malkovich's argument. Look, this is going to be 25% of Malkovich episode. Have we ever talked Malkovich on the pod before? I know we've invoked him. We've invoked the mighty Malkovich. And then he's, yeah, he's never come. But this is one of those people where I'm like in seven years have we never covered a movie that he is a hero. I'm calling up the filmography. I don't know. Because you didn't do pre... Well, Beowulf.

He is in Beowulf. Creepy CGI Malkovich doesn't really count. Favorite actor of all time. But you know, when doing Spielberg, you don't do Empire of the Sun. We haven't done Empire of the Sun. We'll do it someday. Man, he's got a lot of credits he's one of those guys who works more than you think yeah he's he's got to maintain his like lisbon uh club you know about that yeah and his weird fashion line wait ben perked up okay? John Malkovich owns like a bar and restaurant or like a dance club in Lisbon, Portugal. A lovely place.

Yes. I've never been there. I've heard it's cool. But it's kind of an interesting like side gig. But John Malkovich also has a clothing line because he was like, no one was making the blazers I wanted to wear. We did. We did a Secretariat episode right we did too i bet we did a randall wallace miniseries uh let's see i'm still i'm going and i'm not apart from beowulf of course look up look up ben just while david's doing this google uh uh malkovich clothing line um yeah, no, look. I mean, one of the most fascinating

figures in the acting world. We've never done him, apart from Bable. So we're going to go deep on it. Because this is, it's not like this is this quintessential performance,

but in a certain way, this is a movie where you really start thinking about, like, what is Malkovich's deal? Why is he so compelling? Sexual malevolence but this is so many things he's a sun-dried tomato actor in my opinion go on that if you put him on a sandwich it's not like it's automatically going to be bad but it's going to dominate in your mouth yes when

you eat the set you're certainly going to be like getting some sun-dried tomato out of this bite both oily texture look if you see a sun-dried tomato on a sandwich you're like i i gotta prep myself for what and you're sort of like what were they sure they knew what they were doing putting the sun-dried tomato on the sandwich and sometimes you're like you know what i love it uh you know what this is great when he's used well it's like but it's a very best actor, you know what? I love it. You know what? This is great. When he's used well, it's like, oh, he's the best actor alive. Very aggressive choice to include John Malkovich in any movie. I guess. Has he ever been in something where you're like, oh, he's

in that? Don't remember. He didn't make an impression on me in that film. He's never not made an impression. Right? No, he's a very memorable screen presence. David's invoked this for people who don't know this famous story of if you have not seen Rounders he does

one of the most inaccurate and over the top accents of all time. Have you seen Rounders? I have seen Rounders. Or do you know the story? It was on Bill Simmons' podcast. I think I've heard the story. He's told this a number of times now. Please re-read the story. John Malkovich does for the Russian community

in Rounders what Dick Van Dyke did. Did for Cockney Chimney Sweeps. Yeah, sure. Right. Perhaps with a little less technical accuracy.

It's a good performance. I like it. Yeah, and Damon and fucking Norton Playing a character called Teddy KGB just in case it wasn't offensive

enough to Russia. Well, and the character is so subtly written but but damon and norton are like the two fucking anointed like are these the next great leading but they're kids they're serious they're excited hardcore right and malkovich shows up on his first day and he's doing this insane like i am going to go all in on this hand yes like accent like they've all been waiting with bated breath for him to arrive on set. Heavy hitter. We're working with an elder.

He starts doing that accent. And Damon's just like, everyone is like, what the fuck is going on? Right. They call cut. Right. John doll comes over.

He's like, man, maybe try this differently. No notes for Malcolm. It's like take two. And now it goes even bigger. And he's like, take two. And Malkovich goes even bigger. And he's like, let's actually change to a 35 and this and that. John, keep it up.

Stop. And Damon's like, reflects. And he's like, is this a prank on me? And Malkovich at some point clocks his incredulity and goes like, come in. Come on. I've got something to tell you. Do you want to do the delivery? No like, come in. Come on. I've got something to tell you. Do you want to do the delivery? No, you do it.

Go ahead. He goes, you know my secret? I'm a terrible actor. It's a great story. It's a great story. You think about it all the time. There are also all these quotes from Malkovich where he's like,

acting is very easy. A moron could do it. A could do it it's not i don't understand why anyone's impressed there are also these things about him where he's like there's stories from people who were part of step and with him at the time where they were like he is so right wing that it felt like a put on he certainly is he is crazy politics to this day yeah he would like throw parties when there were lethal injections and they'd be like is this edgelord stuff and he'd be like no i like it when justice is served i mean he's one of those guys where he's like i haven't voted since i like voted for george mcgovern in he lives in france now

right primarily in the south he he lives in france now right primarily in the south he he lives in europe i guess it's in france he you know he hates paying taxes he's always complaining about that but then he'll occasionally be like i'd like to shoot that politician what a what a gas bag he is or you know like a lot of guns is that just like a riff on his role in in the line of fire i don't know but it's like maybe that's why he was good. Maybe it's where they cast him. Right. No, I'm sorry. Yes.

He left France. Okay. In a dispute over taxes. He now lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Okay. Wow. He lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Go look him up.

Knock on some doors. Wow. Okay, Massachusetts blankies. If you have any good Malkovich stories, please drop us a line on social media. I mean, you've now invoked what our listenership is called, Blankies. We should mention that this is a Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David.

It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, like, say, The Piano, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want, like, say, Portrait of a Lady. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce baby, like, say, Portrait of a Lady, and sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby, like, say, Portrait of a Lady. It is a bouncer. It's a miniseries on the films of Jane Campion. It's called the Podcastiano.

It's called the Podcastiano. I actually will advance an argument here. Oh? Yes, this movie made $3 million, which isn't very much, and it probably costs more than that. Spoiler alert. I think it costs like $24 million. which isn't very much. And it probably costs more than that. Spoiler alert. I think it costs like $24 million.

So that's not great. Yeah. And I don't think they're like selling it to Netflix this year and getting tons or whatever. No. It's actually unavailable for streaming right now. Imagine like the fucking tweets about like

the town is coming to Netflix in two days about Portrait of a Lady going on there. This movie is unrentable. It is. Well, it was on Criterion for a while. Well, it might have been on Criterion. It was on Paramount Plus. You could have rented it through Amazon.

It'll pop up and out. It's available on Blu-ray through Shout Factory. It sure is. You can't get it on iTunes, Amazon. You can't rent it from any of these places. What are they trying to hide? It was also apparently not in circulation. Not only did the Blu-ray take a long time, but I. It's not an ice cream store. What are they trying to hide? It was also apparently like not in circulation.

I mean, not only did the Blu-ray take a long time, but I think there was not an American DVD. Her movies are underrepresented on discs. It's sort of weird. This one has the Blu-ray,

but like In the Cut has never been released on Blu-ray in America. Excuse me. There's that weird set that I bought. Yeah, there's the weird set. Which is called

the Six Degrees Collection. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Which is, it's a Kevin Bacon box set that Mill Creek put out. For those who don't know, it's usually like a bargain basement

budget home video company. It's the Six Degrees Collection. Here's what's included on it, the Kevin Bacon Collection. In the cut, flatliners, hollow man, the big picture, the Christopher Guest movie. Good movie. Flatliners, Hollow Man, The Big Picture, the Christopher Guest movie. Good movie.

What's it called? Trapped or Abandoned? Trapped. And then the sixth one is the fucking Adam McGloy movie. Where the Truth Flies. Not a terrible movie. Isn't that a wild... Even calling In the Cut

a Kevin Bacon movie is psychotic. He's in it! I know, but... That whole collection is psychotic. He's in it for I know, but... That whole collection is psychotic. He's in it for a few scenes. The six degrees. You're right.

That is technically the only way to watch it. That's the only way to get it. Wow. But anyway. Bright Star has never been released on Blu-ray. I believe no, right?

It's weird that that's not a Criterion movie or whatever. I don't know what... I think... There's weird right stuff, I'm sure, is soft in the answer. I feel like it's maybe coming.

It might be coming. Yeah. But especially now with Power of the Dog. I feel like it may be coming. It might be coming. Yeah. But especially now with Yes. Power of the Dog. I think Portrait of a Lady making $4 million domestic and getting two Oscar nominations

basically is a clear. It basically counts as a clear. For a movie this, like, difficult, that's almost impressive. This is a phenomenon i want to talk about yeah which is it's sort of it it touches a little bit on our friend joe reed and uh uh his podcast this had oscar buzz but it's the sort of like movie after the oscar breakthrough where the expectations are so fucking high and it's like like, they're doing this, this subject matter, or adapting this,

or working with these actors. They have this cast. They're getting this budget level. And it comes out, and there's a sense of complete deflation that it's not another fucking wolf whistle masterpiece. But it doesn't totally bomb. And then it gets a couple salvage nominations.

I mean, most recently, I'm thinking of If Beale Street Could Talk. Right. Which did better than this. I think it's a masterpiece but it's a perfect example of like it wasn't Moonlight again in the public consciousness. The thing that was smart about If Beale Street Could Talk was it came out so quickly after Moonlight that it was almost like let me just get that whole conversation out of the way.

But that's a good example. And that's a rare one that gets like the one win right but uh that's an example i feel like uh a memoirs of a geisha is an incredible example of that um a very long engagement after amelie is one i've always been very fascinated with that movie's good though i like that movie a lot i think very often this my point. I think very often a lot of those movies end up being good. Like the king of this genre, I would argue, is Talented Mr. Ripley,

which now has been reclaimed as a masterpiece. But at the time, absolutely underwhelmed with critics. Right. And the Oscars. Although it's still got,

you know. So I think like 50% of the time with Distance, you're like, oh, that one actually ages better than the one that was the Oscar movie. Often true. Sure.

And sometimes they sort of disappear. What was John Madden's follow-up to Shakespeare in Love? Was it Captain Corelli's mandolin? A man of a being. Now that's an example of one that's just like. But that was the thing though. Like after, I mean, obviously no one came out of Shakespeare in Love being like,

I got to see what John Madden's doing next. No offense to the guy. Sure, but he had. But he certainly had clout. Yes. I'm triple checking that it was his fault. Yes. But Captain Crowley's Mandolin, people mock it now because Nicolas Cage had a funny accent,

but that book was a 90s bestseller on every shelf type thing. So he's making Captain Crowley great. And then he cast an American guy as an Italian and a Spanish woman as a Greek lady. Also, producer Ben and Marie Barty are here. Yeah. Hey, great. And then you cast an American guy as an Italian and a Spanish woman as a Greek lady. Also, producer Ben and Marie Barty are here. Yeah, hey guys. Marie!

Marie, it's a party. You wouldn't steal a DVD. Yeah, I'm wearing a super yaki shirt that someone sent me for my birthday two years ago. I just think it's, this movie is such a good example of that exact phenomenon.

It definitely is. Which can play out different ways and there is that thing where it's like, oh, it's this movie is such a good example of that exact phenomenon, which can play out different ways. And there is that thing where it's like, oh, it's thought of as like a disaster. But then you're like, it got OK reviews and it did get a couple of great nominations. Right. I would say a surprising Barbara Hershey nom. I know she got every precursor. It's not like it came out of nowhere. But you watch this movie.

She's great in the movie, in my opinion. She's my favorite part of this movie she's great in the movie in my opinion she's my favorite part of this i agree but it's not like you watch this movie and you're like well i can see why the oscars just had to give it to her i think it's impressive that it you know who was nominated that year i'll look it up is this the english patient year yeah uh 1996 right it is yeah you're right binoche wins so this is the binoche versus lauren bacall right and then you've got uh marianne jean-baptiste and secrets and lies a great nom but and and you know there's a world where she could have won because that's sort of almost a quasi lead role and like

she's really good but there's a world where she could have won if miramax only had one right and then joan allen in the crucible which is just sort of that start of like, Joan Allen gets a nom. You know, that sort of late 90s thing. Was that the only nomination the Crucible got? Probably. That's a movie that doesn't exist. That movie stinks.

Yeah. It got an adapted screenplay nomination for Arthur Miller. Okay. It's kind of like when they nominated Kenneth Branagh for adapting Hamlet. He didn't cut any part out of it. It's four of like when they nominated Kenneth Branagh for adapting Hamlet. He didn't cut any part out of it. It's four hours long.

He just sort of said, like, I'll film this. Yeah. Sorry. I'm not going to nominate Shakespeare. You should get credit on that. Exactly. Give it to Billy. Yeah, give it to Billy.

And Lauren Bacall. Yeah, but and then Binoche. Right. Binoche is a quasi lead, too. That's why she won partly. I mean, America had English Patient fever that year. Yeah, it was out of control. In my opinion, Binoche is the best part of the English Patient.

And it's a weird win when you think about Julia Binoche's career. I've never seen the English Patient. I've never seen it, either. Because it was... I love the English Patient favorite movie. When the English guy is patient, I love the English patient. Favorite movie. When the English guy is patient.

I love that. That's what I love. I love covered in bandages right now. Yeah, absolutely. The English patient is not bad. And yet it is. That's what I've heard. I would say maybe my least favorite Minghella.

What are his other movies outside of Ripley and Cold Mountain? Yeah, okay. It's probably better than Breaking and Entering although that movie is interesting his other movies are Truly Madly Deeply Cold Mountain and Talents of Miss Ripley okay I've only seen Ripley which is in the Barty canon

Ripley is his best one what's Cold Mountain about brrrr it's actually very complicated. It's like a Civil War epic where a guy is in this Odyssean journey back home. Also starring the star of Portrait of a Lady, Nicole Kidman.

I mean, Cold Mountain is half an awesome movie and then the Nicole Kidman half, in my opinion, is much more fun. It's got great stuff in it. It's got great stuff in it. It looks cool. Got Jack White in it. He's like playing the fiddle.

Is that how he met Renee? I think it is. Oh yeah. For those who don't know, Jack White and Renee Zellweger were a couple for a minute. That was how Renee won one of her two deserved Oscars. JK. Barbara Hershey.

You have to remember, she starts acting when she's like a teenager. She's on TV. Oh, in that Frank Perry movie, which is one of the most horrifying movies I've ever seen.

What's it called? Last Summer? Yes. Oh my God. Wild. And then she marries David Carradine. Yep.

And she's like this very public, like hippie child. And she changes her name to Barbara Siegel because she's on the set of a movie and she sees a seagull die overhead. And she felt that is the Frank Perry movie. Right.

She felt the spirit entered her and she's like kind of a gossip rag sort of fixation for like this kooky hippie girl where she can't get any respect as an actor. Her marriage overwhelms it. I think she becomes right. They become like a couple unit in the eyes of right. She's so good in Boxcar Bertha. That's like the first movie where someone's really kind of like figuring out what to do with her. And then it's like

her career doesn't really take off until the 80s at which point she's like 15 years in. Beaches and Last Temptation, baby. Beaches, Last Temptation, obviously Hannah and her sister. Really good Hannah and her sister. She wins back-to-back Best Actress awards at Cannes. Is that so? Yes.

Shy People and the other one, I'm forgetting the name of. Oh, Shy People. That's been on my list for a minute. It's that Russian director, right? Yes, it's the guy who directed fucking Tango and Cat. A World Apart is the other one which was like a sort of a shared win.

Like all the women were given best actress for that film. But she's like the above the title. I believe she is and it's like that's the next year.

So that is crazy. So I'm just saying I was digging into her. She's so good in Last Incident. Yeah. Great performance. But she gets the Globe

for that. The nomination. She doesn't get the Oscar nomination., the nomination. She doesn't get the Oscar nomination. Too much controversy. She got two BAFTA nominations. She didn't get the Oscar nomination.

Portrait of a Lady is sort of, it just feels like the Academy going like, fine, we accept, Barbara Hershey, you're a legitimate actor. Well, you know,

she's just had a good 10 years. Agreed with that. Yeah. Agreed with that. I do think it's part of the, and it got Critics Awards and all that, but her two BAFTA nominations,

the first was for Hannah and her sisters. Right. But what was the second for? The second one's something bizarre. Right. Black Swan. Right. That was kind of her comeback. I love it. Because she wasn't really in anything notable. Right? No. After A Portrait of a Lady. I love it when the BAFTAs do that. Yes. I wish they'd do it more. I think they are

starting to do it more again. They're getting weirder again. There was a period where they were kind of like just being an Oscar precursor. I feel like they nominated Tilda Swinton for Burn After Reading, which is another nomination. I loved that. They might have. That's fun.

They also famously nominated Eddie Murphy for Best Supporting Actor. Let me check my notes. Well, you beat me to it. Wait, really? Yeah. Is that the only vocal performance they've ever nominated?

Probably. Right? Because I think they did. That was in the year they also nominated Robbie Coltrane for Harry Potter. Right. It's a very fun. yeah is that the only vocal performance they've ever nominated probably right because i think they that was in the year they also nominated robbie coltrane for harry potter like it's a very fun year yeah it's a very fun there's one year where they nominated like four different supporting performances from vera drake they nominated like every sad that's the most you're correct however that uh they nominated brad Brad Pitt and Tilda Swinton for Burn After Reading. Brad Pitt, incredible nomination for Burn After Reading.

Yeah. But see, I would have, I maybe would have given Malkovich. Well, you love that character. That's like my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite characters. Listen to our double threat episode.

Double threat. All of this to say, I think there was this, thishey, like, finally the Academy gives in and recognizes her. And then as you said, Marie, she kind of like, that's sort of the end of her really strong run. But it was, Sarandon was supposed to play this part. Oh, in this. Drops out, and then she offered it to Sigourney, who of course she wants Sigourney to do the piano. And then Sigourney passes, and then it goes to Barbara Hershey. A great performance.

I like all the performances in this movie. Malkovich is the one that requires the most debate, but I think he's well cast. I think... As that character. Yeah, I think he's well cast as that character, especially with

Campion's interpretation of that character which i think is putting it in more of the realm of like a sexual malevolence versus him being an artist and an ass thief those elements are there but i think she's prioritizing the sexuality of him you have read this book marie uh no i have not what i thought you had um i'm sorry i read the book what no i i own the book i started reading the book this week okay and then as i was reading it i'm like got you know i get you know x amount of pages in and i'm like none of this stuff has really happened in the movie yet and then i like jump on wikipedia and it's like cut out she cut

out the first third of the book so i was like like, I'm not going to finish it in time for recording of this episode. It's a long book. And the first third, right, is all about her like rejecting the proposals and stuff, which she condenses to like two minutes at the start of the movie. David, look, I don't mean to blow up your spot on my, but I've been waiting. Oh my God. Are we about to propose to David? I'm not about to propose to David. Oh my God. Are we about to propose to David? I'm not about to propose to David. Oh, okay.

He's married and I respect that. Wow. Okay. I respect the sanctity of his marriage. Wow, cuck for fucking marriage over here. This episode has been on the spreadsheet for months. Okay. And I've been waiting for you to step up and do the noble thing.

And you have refused, so I now need to call you out on Maine. I truly have no idea what he's about to say. You must recuse yourself from this episode because Portrait of a Lady was published in the Atlantic. It was, which is actually something I had forgotten. You must recuse yourself. But it was published as a serial in the Atlantic. That is so crazy. A mere 130 years before they hired you.

Yeah, so you're all the same people. You're working with the same people today. You have so crazy. A mere 130 years before they hired us. You have so much in common with Henry James. You're both published in the Atlantic. You both are New Yorkers who are fascinated with Europeans. You love kissing. Sandwiches. Those, of course, that's back when it was the Atlantic

Monthly and it was published out of Boston. Mmm. You know the Atlantic was the Atlantic Monthly and it was published out of Boston. Mmm. Famous Boston institution until the 2000s. But yeah, isn't that funny? It's also funny because like, God love Henry James, but like he's no

Dickens or whatever where you're like, well, I can see how this was like serialized. And people were like, I can't wait for the next show. It doesn't feel like fucking Bonfirefire the van heavy dense stuff what is isabel archer going to think next exactly like but it was serialized in the atlantic monthly from 1880 to 1881 wow how interesting i mean that was his thing was he thought this book was unadaptable and when he was first asked for permission to adapt into play he was like the best scene in the book is for sitting in a chair thinking

I don't know how you're going to do this it's a very internal work well let me go to the dossier then just a little context I know you have much to say Marie of course and you've looked at the dossier too I have things to say to you David just to the right well you already

launched with your and Ben has things to say i could say stuff ben's very capable of saying things well do your thing oh yeah okay so after the piano wins the palm dork can yes and three oscars and makes 40 million dollars despite being a sexual fantasia about you know piano keys and fucking it's the blank check thing we talk about people are like I have no idea why the fuck this worked. You couldn't design this movie. Clearly, you're just on to something. Go off and do it again. It's a guarantor.

Hoop, skirt, cunnilingus. Absolutely. Of course. Can I get that one more time? To help me? Hoop, skirt, cunnilingus. You're popping on the hoop. Okay.

She's lined up this thing that she's always talks about in these early dossiers we see this movie called My Guru and His Disciple which is a memoir by Christopher Isherwood

about evil genius and his minions oh I'm sorry his guru Swami I'm not gonna even try to say his name

I don't want to. Christopher Isherwood, famously the writer of the story behind Cabaret. Correct. This is a long term thing that she said that she'd been talking about since like Angel at My Table or whatever. But it does not happen. I think part of the problem was, I don't know, that the screenplay kind of had trouble and they never could figure it out it just goes on okay it's one of the it's like el diablo yeah carpenter whatever it's just one of those projects that never happens and instead she also is thinking about portrait of a lady her

favorite book of all time okay which that's how i feel if i'm like jane Campion and I'm suddenly people are knocking on my door, I might be like, well, what's like my favorite book ever. Right. Like you start to get pie in the sky. Right. I get that.

What is your favorite book ever? I don't know. I know. Fuck. I'm on the spot. Someone else. I mean, have you thought about like your dream adaptation?

If someone was like, David, here's your blank check. Cause I've got mine. What's yours. Okay. Mine is another Henry James adaptation. I'd love to...

If anyone in Hollywood is listening, you can help me with this. Or back off if you're trying to steal it. Do not steal this idea. Adaptation of Washington Square. So another version of the heiress, except it's adapted to be a Britney Spears type. That does sound like a Marie Barty project.

It sounds like a Marie Barty project. My mother wrote her college thesis on Washington Square. Really? Yes. You know, Stoner is one of my favorite books, which is supposedly getting turned into a movie starring Casey Affleck. Like that's been happening for years. Who knows if it's going to like Blumhouse is producing it,

which is as much as it's called Stoner. And I know Ben perked up with that, it's like, it's about a depressed middle-aged English professor. But it's really, really good. Blum has quietly three Best Picture nominees, though.

It's a thing that doesn't get talked about. No, it's true. They'll occasionally dip their toe in prestige. It's just, it's impressive that among all his other achievements,

Jason Blum has personally pulled down three Best Picture nominations. But everything I'm saying about this, it's just sort of like what you're saying. This book seems unadaptable. No one had ever really figured out how to approach it. But I guess

Jane Cambion is just like, that's my favorite book. It transformed how I think about things. There has to be a way for me to crack that one open. Marie, you tipped us off to the documentary on the special features of the DVD.

There is a behind-the-scenes doc. It's on the Blu-ray, but it also is on YouTube. It is fascinating. It's incredibly candid. You get to see actors feeling insecure

about their performances and being insane on set. Sort of just like verite, fly-on on wall, from distance. It's a little hard to hear a lot of what's saying because they're clearly just sort of like capturing a ship from a distance. But the process of her working over scenes,

take after take after take, and like Shelley Winters and Nicole Kidman respond by just like emotionally breaking down and John Malkovich becomes very quietly hostile in a way that's surprising from John Malkovich. Or but but as Bill Hader would say, he goes on a bizarrely articulate jack. There's a line where he says like, because she's such a heavyweight. You're sort of like, this is Shelly Winters. Like, this isn't her first rodeo. Like there's that thing she says where she's like,

everyone tells me this apparently a thing that like Shelly Winters likes to be like pushed into performances. I don't want to be a bully. It makes me feel uncomfortable, but like that's apparently what I have to do. And I don't know whether I should tend to her or like, there are some very interesting and impactful things that happened to Jane Campion

in between making The Piano and Portrait of a Lady. I'm about to get to that, but first I want to read her quote about why she loves the book. Yes, go ahead, David. One in 10,000 people read the novel, and of those who read it, many don't bother finishing it.

But I did this for myself. Sometimes in life you read things or see things that make what you're struggling with seem real or reasonable I think Henry James has the gift of doing that for me he's grappled with telling stories that are profound and yet human so that's obviously

relating to the fact that post piano well I want to get the yeah right it's right after the piano in November 1993 Jane Campion has a baby Jasper and the baby dies after 10 days of life support. He was born with a deathly defect. She's pregnant at Cannes when she wins the Palme d'Or.

And by the time that she wins the Oscar, she has lost the baby, which means that she had to do all of her award season campaigning, grieving the loss of her child. That's unreal. Which is unreal. And then the other crazy thing is she,

because she has a daughter, Alice Englert. You can see her in movies. That terrible movie about snakes. A much better movie about witches I saw at Sundance this year. But she was pregnant with her six months after Jasper died. So if Jasper died in November,

that's like April or whatever. So it's like right after the Oscar. It's so bananas. She said that, you know, it was supposed to be the best time of her life. Exactly. The success of her movie. Climbed the mountain.

And it was the worst time of her life. There's an incredible quote from her in the dossier that's from a film comment interview like years later where she says like, people say making movies isn't a cure for cancer. I disagree. a cure it gives you a reason for living when my son died on the third day i was devastated i didn't know what to do with myself i went to see orlando great movie no one's great movie uh it was so beautiful the earth can be transformed there are moments of wonder extreme wonder and that's all worth living for in an act act of making a movie, you are involved with those moments, those

transformations. For me, it's been a way of life that's totally fulfilling. Such a great quote. It's very sad, but it's also very powerful. Yeah, and she's directing this movie with a toddler on set, and they cover that in the documentary trying to figure out how to balance those

two parts of her brain. The thing that jumped out to me the documentary uh which i only watch half of before i fell asleep but also it's it's just so fucking hard to hear what they're saying that i want to watch it like six times because uh i tried to put the fucking auto subtitling on YouTube, and it made up nonsense. God will be good. But she has the thing where she's like, I tell people I'm doing Portrait of a Lady, and people go, oh, I can't wait to see what you do with that, what your take on it is. And she's like, I hadn't really

thought that I needed a take. Or whatever. It's almost an admission from her that she's just like, I'm just making another movie and that now there's an expectation of like, oh, what, when we see Portrait of a... Henry James through the lens of James Campion.

She's still like, what, I'm making movies. Right, right, right. I mean, that A, I think, as you said, it's her favorite book. It's just like, I'm just going to make the movie I would make off of this. I'm not really thinking of how to transform the material into this medium or whatever in that deliberate way. But also that she's not thinking about how she is perceived and what people expect out of a Jane Campion movie.

It's a weird level of famous. Yeah. Well, I think she I think she does have a take on the material. Oh, yes. And I think we does have a take on the material. Oh, definitely. Yes. And I think we're going to get into that. But I also think that, yes, she is navigating a part in her career that is new to her. Right.

The weight of expectations, the weight of the follow-up, which we talk about in every series we do on the show. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that we have this record of her on set. Right. Literally grappling with that. It's also like, I mean, she keeps on talking about like, I'm glad I didn't make this movie earlier in my career because I didn't, I don't think I had the confidence to work with actors.

Yes. That's a very interesting part. I was sort of intimidated by actors. Right, right. And then there's like this interview with M was sort of intimidated by actors right right and then there's like this interview with especially big actors right but malkovich is like you know i have a very fiery temper and i'm i'm not easy to work right i i'm right i'm known for this it's my reputation and then they cut to her just being like she has this line where she's like john i don't know if it's just because like

i mean obviously because i i know that you are acting but sometimes i'm watching it and i feel like you're acting and then they cut to malkovich and he's like doing his like whisper silent right like just very focused like um you know i mean come on know, this isn't a Botticelli painting. I mean, I understand we don't want this to look like a porno movie out of focus, but let's just get it done. Yeah. This shoot did not seem like a fun time. No, and they sort of say, like, it was great when Malkovich rapped, and they say it, like, because, you know, those scenes are so difficult.

Sure. Right. The most emotionally, I guess. But right. It would be funny if like you see like the popping shit they almost do i mean it's like the last thing they shoot with him is they make him shave his beard and paint his mouth blue to do the close-up on his mouth when he says like i i love you i am in love with you or whatever and it's like his, I think one of the standout scenes in the film, which is her little travelogue. Those sequences are my favorite. So when she goes like full fucking Jean Vigo.

Yeah. Rules. But Malkovich also has this thing he says, and when he walks off of that set, everyone does feel like they're waiting to like fucking pop. And when he walks off of that set, everyone does feel like they're waiting to like fucking pop. It's also funny because Richard E. Grant, who is also in this movie, has an insane cast.

It does. Let's just name some people who are in this movie. Shelley Duvall. Shelley Duvall. Shelley Winters. Christian Bale. Viggo Mortensen. Yeah, Mortensen with a very nice haircut. John Gielgud.

And a certain man. John Gielgud going like this. And a certain man who had only one word for us. Tenet. Tenet. Tenet. Yes. Half himself, Martin Donovan.

Martin Donovan, who at this point in his career is mostly known for how Hartley movies. It's funny how he kind of went from being this like quintessential, like intellectual, like soft boy to being like Mr. yeah i know it is weird he's right he he's a chameleon no he's uh it's just funny how hollywood like changes the perception of you right as a character actor right in that way like right where like you don't do a couple of those and it's like yeah you're mr businessman now or whatever yeah um but it's just so funny in this in this behind the scenes doc when richard e grant who's in the beginning of the movie yes comes back later in the movie and also comes back later to film and he's you know dishing with the makeup artist like what did i

miss everyone miserable now right he seems like the anti-malkovich he's fun yeah he's a good time right the other thing malkovich says is he's like you know i've always bored the process of how long these things take and when i started making movies it was unpleasant and it has now gone from like unpleasant to unbearable there's i don't understand why we need to do 120 takes you know what this is making me want to see? What? Behind the scenes talk of Space Force or whatever. Imagine what a barrel of laughs he is on that one. I'm trying to remember this anecdote that I think someone shared with both of us.

Okay. Or was it just with me? Might have just been with you. I think it was just with me that on Space Force, there was some scene where they asked... It is called Space Force, right?

I don't really remember. Right. I'm going to get this wrong. It's funnier than what I'm about to relay, but this is the basic idea of it. I think they like asked Malkovich if he wanted another take and he was like,

what's the point? It's not going to make it any better. Sure. Like it's another take isn't going to make this good. He's a famous stage actor early in his career. Yes. He's obviously like we said from the Steppenwolf company. It does

seem like he's one of those guys who's like I hate how they make movies and it's like bitch stop making them. Yes. But he got famous and he got a lot of money. He can have a club in Lisbon I guess. Right. And everyone else in like Steppenwolf is like so heady and serious and sort of like text based and he's like I don't know I walk on and I say things

and then movies they make me do it too many times. And I can't fucking stand it. It does seem annoying. I wouldn't like it either. He also has that quote where he's like, a production like this, you do understand why it's a job. Why acting is a job. Yeah, it is.

Because it's just sometimes so unbearable. So basically, your impression from this documentary is this was a tough shoot. A very tough shoot. This is her biggest budget movie ever until Power of the Dog, I believe.

Right? And she's just kind of keeping Kidman on hair trigger for the entire shoot. Like that's, there's something to her take on this

which is just like, to have the abusive controlling guy be Malkovich and never really have him blow up. Right? Like, the king of like the simmering terrifying whisper. The most he does is like, abusive, controlling guy be Malkovich and never really have him blow up, right? Like, the king of, like, the simmering, terrifying whisper.

Right, the most he does is, like, this will be a very calculated move by you. Like, his words get pointed. But he never even gets that loud. No, but he never, exactly, yeah. Like, it's always so quiet. And Kidman never has, like, the fall to her knees Oscar scene.

It's, like, just the whole movie she's trembling, right? Yes. She just had to be kept in this state for months. And she talks about, like, some days I just come to set and I'm, like, done.

I'm dead. I'm not relaxed. I can't access these things. And I tell her I can't do it. And Jane pushes me. And when she finished this movie, she said she was in bed

for two weeks afterwards. So this is a great segue. We've talked about Barbara Hershey. We've talked about Malkovich. But we gotta talk Kidman. We do. afterwards. So this is a great segue. We've talked about Barbara Hershey. We've talked about Malkovich, but we got to talk Kidman. We do. I mean, this is a very crucial point in her career.

It is because she's supposed to die for, right? The year before this is to die for and Batman forever. So it's like she has this huge fucking hit. Playing the best DC Comics character of all time, Dr. Chase Meridian. Well, I don't know if you know this, but IMDb Trivia tells us that her name is Dr. Chase Meridian as a subtle allusion to the fact that she is chasing Batman.

It's my favorite IMDb Trivia fact. I've mentioned this at least three times on the podcast. I just love that. Someone was just so proud when they typed that up. I have a fucking poked up, exactly, like Akima Goldsmith later. He's like, Dr. Chase, and he's like looking around and in the maps.

Wait, she's not in the comics? No. He's like, Dr. Jason. He's like looking around and in the maps. She's not in the comics? No. No, absolutely not. All those early Batman movies just have... Vicki Vale's in the comics. But like I just feel like it was this thing of like there has to be a woman who's on

Bruce Wayne's mind. The Nolan movies and all that don't really care about I mean they have Rachel Dawg. But like she's at least sort of like in the action a little bit right like the Elle Macpherson you know the Elle Macpherson one's the weirdest where it's just sort of like well there's also like a lovely lady that Bruce could consider settling down with I do I feel like I guess Rachel does just an evolved version yeah yeah Batman forever and then who could forget Talia al Ghul. What was her fake name? Spoiler alert.

Professor. Go on. Museum person. No, all I was going to say is the year before this, Batman Forever is arguably a movie star level up for her. Right? She's obviously like a big ass star. It's hard to understand how successful that was.

It was so fucking huge. It doesn't matter that the movie was successful. We didn't know if she could really act. Sure. To die for is what changed it. That's my point. In the same year she has this movie star level up. Wins the globe.

She has a movie star level up without Tom Cruise, right? Yeah. And then she has this movie that proves like, holy shit, she can act. So she's coming into 96 like about as hot as she could be right and yet as you said at this point she was most famous for being married to tom cruise they're in two movies together the second one bombs far and away they're in two of tom cruise's worst movies right no offense days of thunder is like an okay time but like it's not that good it's like one of tony scott's days of thunder is kind of the portion of a lady to uh uh top gun's piano right where it's like brilliant analogy it's true thank you you're you're right though they're like this you know like yeah like let's right let's let's change

all the elements it's essentially right she's like the worst follow-up that's kind of similar. She's Australian teen actor who is discovered by Jane Campion earlier, who wanted her to be in her short film. And then Dead Calm is sort of the thing that gives her the crossover success, the American breakthrough. Dead Calm and then Billy Bathgate, Malice. Malice.

Yes. Tom Cruise notices her. Now she's's I just want I mean maybe we've mentioned BMX Bandits before But a very Ben movie I assume he's never seen I've never seen it

Just you know In energy BMX Bandits She's got Maybe the most hair Anyone's ever had In that movie Red curly

She's got a bit of a Janet frame Yes That's true Ben I just want to call out You have been on malkovich's clothing website for the last 30 minutes and i want to make it clear he's been scrolling through it like ben's been going through far and away just just like is that the worst tom cruise movie

like that is a real stinker kind of like really i just feel like i heard no one defended any aspect much mocked the accents right i have not seen Far and Away. I've heard the accents are bad. Yeah. The score is good, right? I feel like they reused the score. We need to remember that Tom Cruise is also in Rock of Ages. Yeah, but, okay.

Rock of Ages is so awful. Tom Cruise is good in it. Yeah. Where he's bad in Far and Away. Okay, yeah. Important distinction to make. I think the worst Tom Cruise movie, you know, you could shout out like Lions for Lambs

or like there's a couple like that that are real. But I think you're right that the worst Tom Cruise movie has to be a movie in which Tom Cruise is bad. Which is rare. He's my favorite movie star of all time. We love Tom Cruise. We love Tom Cruise. Reservedly. I was about to say unreservedly, but you know, reservedly. Ben, just any

quick takes on the fits that Malkovich is throwing? It's giving me fop. This guy walks in here and I'm getting fop. It's a lot of like... Are there cravats? Of course. There's cravats. Right.

Marie? Of course. You have to filter for cravats. Yeah. Exactly. And his whole thing was like, I couldn't find this stuff anywhere. You know, Kidman's 90s is sort of an Angelina Jolie-esque thing

where it's like, wait, is this person actually a movie star or just someone that people talk about all the time? Is she famous for being famous? Is she famous for being hot? Is she actually a good actor? And she switched between. And 95 is like her most triumphant year

until 2000 but I do think Moulin Rouge the beat on her is so like sure she's good in To Die For but like has Nicole Kidman ever really proven that she can one launch a movie and two get an Oscar or whatever

well To Die For is an incredible performance it's an incredible performance. It's a good movie. And it also, when you watch To Die For and Portrait of a Lady back to back, you're like, wow, range. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

But I'm not saying, I was always fairly pro-Kipman, I would say, as a young lad. But I would say that she really had a lot of detractors in the 90s. The celebrity factor worked against her. Both the celebrity and the celebrity couple. Right.

She was throwing fits, though. Can we say that? She absolutely was. Those 90s paparazzi photos of her. Man, she was like serving some shit. Post this, and this movie obviously doesn't go over. Peacemaker. Peacemaker doesn't go over peacemaker peacemaker doesn't go over right practical magic not an acting movie absolutely fuck so hard yeah beloved one of david's favorite films a huge fan of practical magic and she's really good in it and

she's doing something different in it right she's the bad girl yeah but that movie was not a total hit either it was a reasonable double. Right. Right. And then Eyes Wide Shut. Eyes Wide Shut is very controversial. She's amazing in it. But at the time, they thought about that.

Yeah, it's considered a masterpiece now at the time people were more reserved. And it sucks up like two years of her life. Yes. And then the 2000s, she just comes so fucking hot. But it's the 2001 double punch. Right. The others. Right.

Like two original movies. Yeah. Not based on fucking anything. Well. The others. Right. Like two original movies. Yeah. Not based on fucking anything. Well, that's not true. Mulan Rouge is kind of based on. Right. No. Oh, no.

But it's based on Camille. And it's also kind of based on like. Mulan Rouge is kind of based on. Okay. It's not really like, you know. We got to do Buzz at some point. Yeah. I'm so pro.

I know. Yeah. What if we like have a rule where we do like one australian new zealand director a year right just add to our ridiculous series of rules um uh and that after that for fucking elvis after that kidman is gold right like obviously she wins the oscar the next year but it's also that she's that year single-handedly melts her right that year single-handedly mints her to a degree where no one's questioning her anymore.

And it's like, the fact that The Others makes $100 million released at the doldrums of August, you know, and then like, then the next year, The Hours, it's like, well, I guess she's overdue.

Yeah. And Denzel Washington said, by a nose. Oh, God, that was, what do we think about that was that kind of mean I think it was corny I don't think it was mean because I remember the conversation

at the time being like oh just another example of a beautiful person making themselves ugly to win an award that was absolutely there's a run of best actress winners because monsters right around there

you know like where people were like oh do you have to quote unquote decoy a monster's ball but but I think she won because one she has like is right around there. You know, like where people were like, oh, do you have to quote unquote decoy a monster's ball makeup? But I think she won because one, she has like this killer speech.

You know, that's and she's playing a real person. Yeah, I love that. She's overdue. She's overdue. And yeah, and like it's a transformation. So, you know,

like it was, I mean, people were just so into, I mean, this is the other thing we need to talk about. Julianne Moore should have won that year. Yeah, absolutely. When we're talking about Kidman hitting the 2000 just so into, I mean, this is the other thing we need to talk about. Julianne Moore should have won that year. Yeah, absolutely. When we're talking about Kidman hitting the 2000s so hard, the other thing is the fucking Tom Cruise marriage.

Like, once the divorce happens, she immediately is seen in a different light. And he hasn't started torpedoing himself yet, but it's still like, ooh, I like this fucking Nicole on her. Wow, I didn't give it to Julianne. You didn't give it to Julianne? No't give it to Julian. I gave it to Diane Lane and I do it again.

You do it again. I do it again. Those weren't for those not unforgiven unfaithful unfaithful. It would be wild if I gave it to her for yeah. What if Diane Lane was not in? Wow, this is a good five. Oh, give us the you got to share the five

Anne Lane in Unfaithful and Julianne Moore in Far From Heaven The two I've got with the Oscars Samantha Morton in Morvern Caller Incredible performance About to be released on Blu-ray Emily Murdomer in Lovely and Amazing One of my favorite performances And Natasha McElhone in Solaris baby

Wow You didn't see that coming? David just did like a rock'em sock'em robot pose an uppercut wow anyway um so nicole in this movie as you said she's very much quivering trembling i mean the poster is basically her having a migraine she's also putting herself through physical torture by committing to wearing a very tight corset. A 19-inch corset. I know Nicole Kidman is a skinny woman.

But that is something you have to work your way towards. Yes, you're right. They had to like go inch by inch or whatever. It's wild. Yes. I wanted to say something. This is not Kidman, really. We'll get right back to Kidman.

Oh, no. I've said my Kidman piece. Fair enough. Merchant Ivory, apparently, had been interested in doing Portrait of a Lady. Makes sense. And Merchant, Ismael Merchant, upon hearing the news that Campion would adapt the novel,

said, We have about six projects in development. Maybe we'll get around to Portrait of a Lady in ten years. We don't want to race with anybody. We're proud to have paved the way for other artists to consider E.M. Forster and Henry James. James is a world-class writer and everyone is interested

in a world-class writer. I just love the idea that Merchant is like, yeah, I've got a whole fucking list of masterpieces. I can't do them all. Well, you better go get to Portrait of a Lady. Ismael Merchant used to do those up-fronts like Kevin Feige where he'd come out with the clicker I mean was that

the original MCU like Merchant Ivory it's just funny to think that like Jake Hampton's like well I could do a Henry James novel like I don't know man Merchant Ivory we gotta call him on the phone I'm scared of those guys they might be working on something I'm just imagining them unveiling

like Andy Park concept art of whatopher reeve will look like in the in period of the day or whatever merchant ivory phase five right or like a dante's peak volcano thing where merchant ivory's like oh we got a portrait you want to do one we got one why you wait till you see our fucking porch yeah i'll call'll call Emma Thompson right now. She's available. Yeah. Do you want to get into talking about this actual movie? Yes. Well, and we should say

I did like candles because I thought it'd be elegant. Ben turned off most of the lights and he lit candles. And this isn't a bit. I thought he farted or something. It was two candles. It's not like he lit 80 candles. It's a little romantic.

It's a little romantic. A little Victorian. As everyone now knows, Ben prepared a tea party for us. He did. High tea. Last week, we had high tea. So Ben might be going through a phase right now. A gilded phase.

A gilded phase. Wait, am I in my gilded era? right now. A gilded age. Wait, am I in my gilded era? You're gilded. You're serving gilded. Yes, this is a 600 page novel. It is very interior. Like many a Henry James novel.

It is very focused on its character psychology. it is not screaming out for adaptation it famously has a non-ending right which is also not screaming out for adaptation it doesn't really send you out the door cheering nope and you know jane right away takes a big big swing by opening this movie with a sequence that takes place in contemporary times is shot in black and white and has young women talking about their own sexual desire. Oh,

overheard snippets. Really? It's not like you're seeing the people talking. You're just kind of seeing people, you know, moving around. I kept waiting for them to show up in the movie. They storm in. I mean, this honestly could show up in the movie. They storm in.

I mean, this honestly could be the sort of thing where you're in the theater and you're like, is this the right movie? Am I in the wrong theater? It feels like a 90s MTV era Kotex commercial. Please speak. Please talk. I mean, in the notes I took,

I wrote chokers, piercings, thin eyebrows. speak right yeah i mean in the notes i took it's what makes me a woman like it's one of the piercings thin eyebrows yes i mean we're really situating ourselves in the mid 90s with the style of these women and uh what she's obviously trying to do by beginning the film with this sequence is she's trying to place the uh character of isabel archer and the situations she's facing to place the character of Isabel Archer and the situations she's facing squarely in our modern consciousness. She is connecting that story to what women face today. To contemporary times. Because what I think, if we talk about what her take is on the material, I think that she is focusing on Isabel's passions and things that are hinted at. Right. You know, obviously

it's more sexually explicit. Not that it's a vastly explicit film, but like. I don't think we see any boobies in this. Well, you do see Nicole's naked figure in one of the sort of, you know, John Bigo-esque scenes. Right. Oh, right, right. You do see boobies. But it's not like there's

a, you do see boobies. You do see boobies. We don's not like there's a... You do see boobies. You do see boobies. We don't see any dong. No. Fucking huge oversight. And Malkovich will take it out. He took it out in one of those fucking boring ass movies he made in the 80s.

I know. Secretariat? I mean, this is a movie... I wasn't Malkovich. He walks up to the horse. You think that's big? No, he took it out in... Fuck, is it called The Sheltering Sky?

Yeah. Is it the Bertolucci movie? Yeah, it's Sheltering Sky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. no he took it out and fuck is it called the sheltering sky yeah sheltering sky yeah this is a movie that famously includes a foursome that does not feature nudity sure a sort of yes yeah yeah I will say this is

like a little bit of an issue for me where it's just like I was excited by a lot of the choices she's making the first 45 minutes of the movie i think a lot of the most interesting sort of so you like the kind of phantom the men like dissolving yeah yeah things like that yeah you like the the weird jean vigo yes and this opening and all this stuff i'm like oh she's really throwing some interesting sort of like formalist exercises we're finding out the house is not damp right like that was the thing like right away i'm like okay interesting lord farquaad she also she loves a moat definitely we talk about moats yes um i just

think like oh i love a moat do you guys adoreat. Man, why even waste the breath to tell us that? Well, I know, but I wanted to get your moat take. We know you love moats. Yeah, yeah, they're cool. They seem good. Do they move? I don't want like standing water around. No, no, it's standing water.

You gotta get the gators. The gators stir it. That's why they call gators nature spoon. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise i feel like yeah you're gonna get a lot of skeeters in the summer your moat you know yeah um i no i just i i have not read the book but that foursome sequence i'm like this is a really interesting way to dramatize internal sort of battles within a person, you know? And I wanted more of that experimentation, which there's a lot of at the beginning. And you're sort of like, wow, this is not what I expected out of this movie.

And then I do think it falls a little more into, although with Jane Campion Energy, the sort of more traditional state well period i think i think she's making well just to kind of quickly go over the plot isabel archer is a woman in the victorian era late victorian era the gilded Age. We're not quite, well, yeah, sure. Isn't it James Gilded Age? It's like the 1880s. Yeah. Her Ben years. Yes.

Yes. But she, I guess, yeah. She does not want to marry because she doesn't want to compromise her freedom. Correct. And her friend is,

her friends are trying to marry her off. Yes. They're throwing boys at her. She's got a lot of suitors. Yeah, well, come on. Which is, yeah, we'll get into that.

But she also knows that she, like, there's life she wants to live. Yes. That's the thing she keeps, like, I need to live more. I need more experience. There are things I want to.

And the first half of the movie, we see her being offered these proposals of marriage by different suitors who the viewer would think

are perfectly acceptable. Richard E. Grant. Viggo Mortensen. Viggo Mortensen. Looking very nice. Almost the hottest he's ever looked. Very snackable. His name is Casper Goodwood.

Pause here for a second. He is so pretty in this movie. Very pretty. It's not that he's hot, but he's so delicate in this. And to think this is like 10 years after Witness, it's not like this is the youngest he's ever, but they're like, he's so delicate in this. And to think this is like 10 years after Witness, it's not like this is the youngest he's

ever been on screen. He's already worked a lot at this point. He's three years away from filming Lord of the Rings. It shows up in that movie where you're like, this guy's been through some shit. Was he like just hanging out with Jane Campion? I was like, I like these Kiwis. I want to go. Maybe. He's a guy.

He's a very soulful actor sort of his uh you know reputation especially i think i've said this before but i just always forget that he's american he's not american well he's he's kind of american isn't he he's like as danish parents but he's right he was raised in america he he uh was not raised oh exclusively in. Raised all over. He is Danish, obviously, by birth. I don't know. He's quasi-American, I would say. Kind of like you? No, I'm like more American.

Murray, what do you mean? David seems kind of European. You sense like a little touch of the Spaniard in him? What are you? Maybe German. I've noticed he does raise a pinky from time to time. At the high tea. Were you fucking spying on me while we were drinking high tea?

He's got a touch of the Ben. He does have a touch. Touch gilded. Venezuela, Denmark. They lived in Argentina for a long time. Didn't he make it? Was it Ho-Ha? What is that movie he made?

That's like Argentinian. I don't know. It's like J-A-U-J-A. I'm looking that up. Do you guys remember this from a couple years ago? No. Yeah, Ho-Ha. Ho-Ha. Wow. Yeah. That was a 2014 film. He's one of those guys where you can be like... That's where he gets into

horses. Yeah. horses Oh he loves He knows how to ride a horse Then they go to New York When their parents divorce When he's a teenager And then he moves back to Spain And then Denmark He's a very sexy

Worldly man I feel like everyone is always talking about how he's like Writing poetry and taking photographs And all that right like he's one of those he's a real artist he doesn't play the hollywood game it's why it's so funny that then he finally was like i got one more performance to get pizza that was in him all along i still can't believe that's him in that movie it's so weird it's like blocked out it's so weird it I forget. It's like blocked out. It's so weird. It's so weird. It is weird of them to cast him, right? It is weird that he did it well,

and it is weird that he got an Oscar nomination for him. All true. Whatever I think of that movie, I'm like, he did what they asked of him. He's back to Cronenberg, right? It's not like he went off Green Book and was like,

let me be in a Marvel movie. There's always that thing with him where it's like, I don't know, maybe I'll never make a movie ever again. He doesn't make a lot of movies. Captain Fantastic, 2014, Green Book, 2018, and then that film he directed. Those are his only movies of late. Green Book just did not seem like

the kind of movie he would ever watch. How did they get him? What's the connection there? I sent a green book to his house. I don't, I genuinely. The only thing I'm. You know how like some people like secretly have worked with the Farrelly's before

and I always forget. Right. And I'm like, oh wow, I forgot. All I know is that he was like the first person attached to that movie. Like he was the star. This is the other thing is like as the Green Book Oscar season kept going on,

Mahershala would sometimes like seem a little embarrassed by the movie, and Viggo would double down. Viggo was so fucking proud of that movie. The only thing I know is that, I guess, the Moonlight Captain Fantastic Oscar season was the same year. And they hit it off. So there was something of, like like they'd like to work together right yeah I don't know I don't fucking know how either

of them he like gained like 50 pounds for this movie like he's crazy he wanted to be in Green Book so badly and then stood by and was like look at this fucking what best picture I don't I don't know anyway he is in this film he's very pretty John Gielgud

sort of sort of a suitor I guess well Gielgud is sort of a suitor, I guess. Well, Gielgud's not a suitor. His son is, though. Martin Donovan. Played by Martin Donovan. His actual character's name is Ralph Touchett. Ralph Touchett. Goodwood Touchett. Goodwood Touchett. This movie should be hornier.

It sounds like a fucking Bart Simpson prank call. Ralph Touchett. The horniness is imprisoned, you know. Yeah, but it would... Martin Donovan is the person that she clearly has the strongest emotional connection to. But he also is her cousin, and he's dying. What's up with the cousin stuff? Well, you know, we weren't cousins back then. No.

Well, you know, sometimes people would marry their cousins, right? Because everyone's freaking cousins in the upper class society. When I watch movies like this, I'm like, where were we on cousins at this point in time? Because I know we've slipped around back and forth. I think we were cool with cousins until like the 50s. Yeah. Damn. Wow.

Yeah. So you're saying just cousins were cool. It's like, you know, if you're looking for people, if you're always marrying off your kids within aristocracy, and then you're looking for your kids to marry an aristocrat, it's all going to intermingle. All the fucking royal families are incestuous. Edward VII, the grandfather of Europe,

because he had a bunch of kids and they all moved around Europe. But she doesn't want to marry anybody. And her reason for not wanting to marry anyone isn't that she's not attracted to them. Because as we see by this foursome sequence, she is very horny for these men. She's dreaming of them going to town.

She's dreaming. It's not like she's a cold fish. No. But she knows that at this point in history, as a woman, once you are married, you sacrifice your independence. Yeah. And she does not want to do that and ralph actually persuades uh his dad right to or his yeah his dad good his

dad john gilgud is his dad and her uncle yes and he's like actually give her money so she can like live the life she wants leave her the fortune yes yeah so she doesn't have to marry fucking consumption or whatever right he's yeah he doesn't have to marry. And he's dying of fucking consumption or whatever. So he's, yeah. So the first part of the movie is her navigating these suitors and then she goes to Florence, right? Yes. Oh, no.

Rewind. Because I want to talk about the scene where she's introduced to Barbara Hershey. Right. Which happens in England. Madame Serena. Madame Merle. Madame Serena merle uh and it i i really loved this sequence we see nicole walk into a room and we hear this really intense piano playing we don't see who's playing the piano but

nicole is like captivated and so the audience is captivated like who is playing the piano and this is also coming after a time where we are uh in the film where we are thinking about all of her suitors so i'm thinking it's going to be a man and then it turns out it's this woman this ostensibly liberated woman yeah like right like it's like she's sort of seems to be doing her own thing yeah and so i'm like, yes, who is this bitch? I love her. Which I guess is kind of what Isabel's thinking. And she's very interested in this woman. And they go to Florence together.

And we find out that Barbara Hershey, aka Madame Merle, has ulterior motives. She wants to set her up with Gilbert Osmond. Yes, John Malkovich. A little bit of a Ghislaine Maxwell. I was about to say, she is the Ghislaine Maxwell. I mean, right? It's this thing of like, look at this woman, look at how confident she is. What's her secret?

But yes. I'm not saying the conditions are identical. No, but it's true. But the pipeline of like, you hear all the stories of these young women, Glenn would come to them and she'd be like, you're so glamorous, you could come into society,

you'd be such a big hit. And it's like, no one ever thought that of me. And then you get in there and then you're sort of pawned off to some other person. You're like, what's your relationship

to that person? They are exes, of course. That's the ultimate revelation. We don't know that. We don't know that. We know that there's some sort of sexual tension between Joan Malkovich and Barbara Hershey.

Brother and sister. No. They're not brother and sister? No, they're exes. I don't know why I thought that was going on. His sister is Shelley Duvall. Right.

You know Shelley Duvall from The Shining? Yeah. They don't look anything alike. Shelly Duvall. Right. You know Shelly Duvall from The Shining? Yeah. Oh, okay. No. They don't look anything alike. No, sorry. Go. And I feel like Campion is very intent on showing a less glamorous Italy. She does not want it to be this transporting thing

where you arrive in fashionable Italy. Campion went to Italyaly which she was she was miserable she was like this place sucks yeah and the first part of the movie is as griffin said like you have all these interesting uh artistic touches and it then the movie becomes absolutely fucking miserable yes Once our character becomes miserable. Look, it is by design, but it becomes pretty oppressive. Yes.

It's quite oppressive and not short. No, that's the other thing. It's the cycle of just like, this isn't ending, this isn't ending. This very quiet man saying like,

look at my stuff, look at my beautiful belongings. Don't ever leave me. He has a daughter who is like not allowed to leave the house. Pansy. Pansy, played by Valentina Servi.

Don't really know her other than this. An Italian actress. Yeah. It would make sense that she'd have an Italian accent, having been raised in Florence. But yes, Isabel accepts the offer of marriage from Osman. And we are led to believe that she accepts his marriage proposal as opposed to everyone else's because it's kind of like Madam Merle made him seem cool.

Cool. I think the idea, I guess in theory is like, he will allow her to live her. He's this libertine. Right. Yeah. Right.

Um, and then the second they get married, he's like, no, welcome to Bobberville. Close the doors. Like, yeah. Uh, Stuart driver shot this they get married, he's like, no, welcome to Bobberville. Close the doors. Yeah. Stuart Driver shot this movie.

Obviously, we talked about him on the piano. I'm just going to read this quote from Jane Campion. We made two major decisions. One, make our interior shots in Italy as dark as possible. Two, have exterior shots almost overexposed

to get those big contrasts. I wanted to avoid the glamour and the intimate scenes, be as close as possible to the bodies. That's all very interesting, but it certainly does make the film tough to watch in a way, oppressive, and not

what you would expect from a costume drama. It's sort of not giving you maybe the sort of meat and potatoes. We're not getting the sweeping vistas that we get from some other period films. It's that bleached out thing where the skies are like white. Yes. And I will defend Malkovich's performance in this, but you're essentially asking him to be the motor of the movie for like the better part of 90 minutes.

Sure. But he's also like an obstruction. Right. Right. And he's a bottleneck and he's a very quiet, simmering bottleneck that never pops in that sort of way. Yeah. Yeah. He is malevolent, but it's not like Dangerous Liaisons or wherever where he's kind of fun malevolent.

No, he's not fun at all. No, he's a fucking bummer. This sucks. Yeah. And so much of the movie is people being like leave him there's a point in the film where it's like all of all of isabel's old friends who have been cut off right are all like sitting together talking about like she's in a terrible situation what can we do and i thought they were gonna like team up to rescue her. But that does not happen. Well, that was planned for Portrait 2.

Yeah. Can we talk about Mary Louise Parker playing like Zooey Deschanel in Failure to Launch? She's got little glasses. The little glasses

are so good. Yeah. This is early Mary Louise Parker, right? I mean, I feel like she's still pretty. Well, she did. She did Boys on the Side.

What is it? How to Make an American Quilt? Is that what that thing is called that is a movie but no what's the other there's another one she's in that's like a generational there's a grand canyon well it's fried green tomatoes i'm saying i think there's how to make an american quilt is another movie i know i'm gonna figure out what the bullets over broadway obviously and then she's in uh how i learned to drive off broadway the following year which is like a big she's on that show she was on that show weeds thank you ben um so a thing i wanted to talk about if you're talking about uh intentionally shooting interiors and having them be very very dark and yes campion makes some kind of shockingly heavy-handed choices to illustrate the interiority of the characters like the canted ankles well not even the canted angles like literally like the scene where um it's

kidman and malkovich and it's kind of like their big scene together before she goes on her little uh boat trip and it's literally in the catacombs like they are yes they are surrounded by like skeletons yes and so you're getting that like oh bad omens right there's a scene later where she is talking to um i think she's talking to her cousin, Ralph. And she says, at this point, she's married. And she says, if I like my cage, that needn't trouble you. Referring to marriage as her cage. They're literally in horse stables,

and she's framed in front of a bunch of bars. And so I'm like, I don't know. I agree. This movie is, I don't think, I don't know. I don't know how you guys, I mean,

I know Griffin was perplexed, I would say, by the film. That's my read of your reaction. Not perplexed. Maybe not perplexed. Look, I wasn't looking forward to this one.

This is not my type of movie, I would say. I was sort of invigorated by the first 45 minutes, and then it sort of settled into the thing I sort of was expecting it to be, which is just maybe not my cup of tea. But it's also, I've been really enjoying the fucking movies we've been watching.

The last three were so kind. Is this my least favorite campy, and I guess it might be, and I still like it. Two friends. I said, well, I'm not counting. Okay, if you're not counting that, then it probably is the worst film.

But, you know, good filmography. But, Murray, what do you think? Like, I've seen this film three times. I told Griffin that, and he was astonished. It is over like the course of many years. Also, I mean, there are weirder movies I've

watched more times than that. Who am I to judge? I've seen it twice. I watched it this week and the first time I saw it at a movie theater in New York, the quad was doing a Henry James adaptation series and I went with a bunch of girlfriends to watch this.

And none of us had seen it before. And we had high expectations for it. Yeah. Like we thought it was going to be a hidden gem. That's the thing. That's the thing. You want this to be a buried gem. You're like, fuck.

Like Kidman, Campion. Like this is a Henry. How was this not? And people didn't like it. It must be great. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right.

And also I had just watched In the Cut for the first time, I think a year before I saw A Portrait of a Lady. It was certainly derided. And that is a movie I had grown up hearing ruined careers and was legendarily terrible and watched it, loved it. It's probably my favorite Campion. And so I'm like, okay, this one's also going to be really good. And it is not that good.

I think there are interesting things to talk about with this movie. Like, it's not a total I hope this isn't like a bummer of an episode. I'm just saying, I really love Campion. I do think this is

not entirely successful beyond the fact that she's setting herself this challenge of adapting a difficult novel. And, you know. And there's a thing, another take I have is, we talked about this off mic before, is especially comparing this to a movie

like The Age of Innocence, which is like low-key my favorite Scorsese film. Great movie. Great, great film. I love the narration in the Age of Innocence yes so do I I think this film

would have benefited from narration and I think that she did not include it because her last film was very

narration heavy because her character did not talk her last three movies have narration to some degree like Sweetie, Angel, My Table, and Piano so I think she set a challenge for herself yeah that ultimately

cut your nose to spite your face yeah i think that's true i also think as much as she's like well i love the book and right i was just wanting you know the way she talks about approaching the adaptation it does seem like they hit a bunch of roadblocks. They tried a lot of ways to figure out how to put the first third of the book into the movie and realize, like, it's got to go. She doesn't have a screenplay credit on this. No, it's credited to Laura Jones.

A regular collaborator. Correct. Who wrote Angel at My Table with her. Also, did you notice a certain name popping up in the producer credits of this film, David? Monty Montgomery. The cowboy himself. We know about Monty Montgomery? No, who's Monty Montgomery?

Well, Monty Montgomery, of course, is the man who shot the coward Robert Ford. No, he's not. He's not. We did ten minutes on his fucking photo. His IMDb picture looks like it was taken at Deadwood. Yeah. He was Catherine Bigelow's early collaborator. He is credited as the director of The Loveless,

her first film, like a co-director. And he is the cowboy in Mulholland Drive. Oh, a kind of fascinating figure. You see him two times if you do Beth. I believe in that documentary, he is the one who's trying- Who's having that conversation with Shelley Winters. Okay.

I was one, because it wasn't her other producer is Jan Chapman who is a woman I believe that's Monty Montgomery who's this odd like zealot figure of the last 30 years 40 years of film yeah I love him love him wow one of my favorite performance it's one of my favorite scenes in a movie ever

and another thing that I think is was difficult for her in approaching this is I think that she is too close to the source material. Right, yes. These are some quotes that I wrote down from that making of Doc. Isabel fantasizes about men like Osmond, and so do I. She's desperate to be loved, and to be loved by someone as difficult him might give her in some strange way a sense of satisfaction that's the approach she's taking

to the story and the character i don't know if it is telegraphed as strongly as it could have been because you have people like ebert at the time complaining about malkovich and just like not getting why she would go for Malkovich. Yes. Yeah. Dried tomato. Yeah. He's a real sun dried tomato.

But it is that thing. You watch him in this and you're like, this is the most compelling person in the world. Like even if I'm bored in this movie, I'm just kind of fascinated by his, which is always true. Even when he's in some junkie film, you are kind of like, Whoa,

Malkovich. She is setting it up to be a, like a sexual, say, a masochistic thing you know it's another thing I'll say but they kind of yeah that works for Malkovich Malkovich is maybe aside from Mary Louise Parker who is of course her best friend in the movie is giving like the most modern performance sure you know he does which is alluring

in first right in and of itself yeah it's just like what's this guy's secret he's existing on a different wavelength than everyone else we've even talked about the whole christian bale sub oh yeah this funny thing of christian bale in the 90s being like in this forever like fucking lori and little women mode that's why i mean i know he's only two years before this movie right like christian bale of course the the young suitor who plays the gentleman who tried to woo the young woman pre you know um american psycho like he plays like chubby cheeked cuties i think like velvet goldmine he is such a cutie in like everyone else is kind of like aggro and glam and cool right and

like and uh fucking everyone forgets a midsummer night's dream but like he's one of the young lovers in that one yes yes he was just in this zone and then like i i remember my parents i just having honestly it's post-american psycho but captain corelli's mandolin he also plays that role weird yeah and and kind of the new a new the new world he he also plays that role. Weird. Yeah. And kind of the New World, he kind of plays that role too. Which I think he's great in. Yeah. That's later, obviously. And then he plays, he weirdly plays a different voice role in the animated Pocahontas.

In Pocahontas. Right. Thomas. Yes. What I was going to say, I just remember my friends, parents, parents' friends, or some other adults, my friends were over for fucking dinner or whatever. They were talking about what movies they had seen and I was listening

to them talk about movies I wish I could go see. You were listening at the top of the stairs. Yeah, exactly. Top of the stairs apartment. But my parents' friends were saying that they had seen American Psycho and they liked it. I just remember her saying, because I had no Christian, but I was reading Entertainment, cause I had like, no,

I guess Christian, but I was reading entertainment weekly. It was like, here's a guy I've never seen in any movies, but I understand is a movie star. He's talked about. Right. And she said like,

I was really impressed with him in that. It was the first time. Like I always think of him as being very soft. Sure. And this is the first thing I've seen him in where he actually feels like an adult. Yeah. And you're like, he doesn't get to really be an

adult until... Until the 2000s. Yeah. And he does it by playing these really... That and Shaft in the same year. Right, but that's the thing. I want to take on Gary Rawls. The second that Switch is flipped, it's like Christian Bale, one of the most intense actors of his generation. He does these very, very

big swing performances. He goes really hard he goes really deep it's just funny that he spent like a decade after obviously being a child he was a child star right we talk about this to like soft romantic boy we talk about this narrative a lot with women yes who are teen stars and then they have to do the movie where they're nude right or that they're in order to become adult yeah and he's a male example of that. And to throw Disney off the center. So you can't cast me anymore.

I was naked in a movie. I'm done. And his presence in Portrait of a Lady is funny because if we talk about... It's a small role. If we talk about the 1994 Little Women as a movie that I, as a child, did not get because I didn't understand why Joe didn't

marry Laurie. Of course. And with Gabriel Byrne. I was like, why is she with this old man and not the cutest boy I've ever seen? He was so cute. He was so cute. And as now that I'm an adult, I understand that, you know, she she's escaping her her home.

It's not so much about Laurie himself being cute. But Christian Bale in that age range is such a dream boy for like a child. You know, if you were under the age of 15 watching that movie,

you're like perfect guy. I feel like. Sure. For sure. I mean, he's like, he's a precursor to Chalamet. Right. Which is why Chalamet

is perfectly cast. He's so, Chalamet is so perfectly cast because he feels like a child like that's why you get the joke yeah and now that i'm watching like we've been watching portrait of a lady now in my 30s i'm like oh bail looks young he looks like i wrote down in my notes baby bail baby so he does look young in little women i just didn't get it when i was a child to be clear clear, in this movie, he plays the sort of suitor of Pansy. Yes, Malkovich's daughter. The merriest.

Right, yes, yeah. Yeah, exactly. The boy in Sweeney Todd. It's like, here's the kept woman in the tower, and I'm the sweet boy who's going to try to use love to overcome. The plot at this point in the movie is now Isabel is trying to um help her

stepdaughter make a match in marriage well she sort of gets reinvigorated she knows she loves bail and she like feels the energy of like oh this is actual romance and malkovich is trying to set her up with richard e grant because he wants the money i I guess. Right. You know, like, he just wants this. But Richard E. Grant still has feelings for Nicole Kidman. So Nicole's like, I don't want to... He's only using Pansy to get sort of in orbit. Yeah, I don't want to put her in that position. Right.

She can tell that Christian Bale really loves Pansy and Pansy loves Christian Bale. I love that her name is Pansy. Well, there's Malkovich... What ends up happening is, in, like, a cruel twist, Malkovich sends his daughter to a convent to become a Benedetta. And he says for his rationale

for that decision, one's daughter should be fresh and fair. Kansi is a little dusty. A little disheveled. She is the daughter of his union with barbara like that that is the dark that is the surprising twist and then we realize that barbara hershey is this tragic villain yeah where she did the reason why she kind of encouraged the union of nicole kidman and John Malkovich was because she

wanted her illegitimate daughter to be set financially. Uh, and, and she's made, you know, he's the devil. Like she, she,

she, she cannot get what she wants. You know, she, she fails. Uh, and Percy plays all those later scenes so well. And if you,

again, you keep talking about this making of Doc, did you get to the point where they're filming her final scene in the rain? No. And Barbara Hershey is like miserable because she has to do this take so many times where she's standing in the freezing rain

having this emotional moment. She's wearing these fucking costumes. Yeah. And it's the thing everyone talks about is just like an absurd number of takes on every scene of this movie. And Campion seems to be a very gentle director when it comes to actors. But it's really like probing of just like, let's find something. Let's go deeper.

And just like never satisfied. And Hershey's upset because a lot of the crew are laughing and having a good time. And she's like, I'm miserable. And I guess my character is supposed to be miserable in this moment and so i should channel that but it i really just feel disrespected um sidebar a wild thing because i was i was sort of doing my my little hershey deep dive uh when she shows up in beaches it was like very publicized that she had gotten uh lip fillers yes and like every fucking review called it out where it's like i don't even know if barbara

hershey's goodness because i was too distracted by the fucking good ear tires on her that was how i knew who like what her deal what like that was what i knew about her as a child was that she had plastic surgery right it was, this incredibly vain woman who's getting this distracting facial surgery. And you look at her in that movie and you're like, she looks normal. Like have our standards just gone so wildly out of whack? I mean, remember we used to talk about

like Jennifer Lopez's butt as being the biggest thing we've ever seen. And if you look at her butt now, it's a great butt, but we've now seen bigger. Yes, we have. The goalpost has moved. The over-seen butt window has shifted but window right the goalpost moves but also just like the the nature with which we talk about these things i mean look the irony of it is like i feel like we're coming up against this now in like

people trying to talk about uh being the ricardos that is a performance where you want to sort of dig into the effects of perhaps surgeries on how the effectiveness of that role. But I even feel like there is like an over delicacy and even like touching it versus this Barbara Hershey thing where it's like she had one procedure and people were like, well, she's not even acting anymore. She's just got a fucking hot air balloon under her nose. Barbara Hershey in this film. It's just funny that you compared her to Ghislaine. That's what you're saying? The scary of 61st. Ghislaine. Whatever.

Because she, in an interview with Charlie Rose, another famously normal person, compared this character to kato kalin sort of oh yeah this is a funny bit of the dossier uh uh you know but sorry you know in this way of like she's sort of like a consummate actress right and that she's like ingratiated herself in society she plays the piano all this you know like this that's how she kind of holds on and then charlie rose of course is like are you interested in the simpson business which is

hilarious yeah way to put it and hershey's like i am uh we were shooting portrait when the verdict came in on oj simpson it was 10 o'clock at night and i said to jane the verdict was coming in and she said oj johnson and and hershey was like i love that she just didn't even really know about it. Very European of her to be like, oh yeah, I've heard a little about OJ Johnson. Is he in trouble? Anyway, and Campion says Madame Burl, her favorite character,

one of the great characters in literature. Henry James says the great characters of literature are great because they understand their own tragedy. And that's how she feels about this character right like she's repulsed by what she has to do yeah but it's too late like she's already engaged

and like I have to save my daughter this is the only way to do it it is a good yes conflict I think the film is really strong when it's about exploring the relationship between these two women and the choices that they've had to make and how this one horrible man

is kind of involved. I think the movie kind of suffers for a big stretch in the middle and Barbara Hershey is not present. I agree with that. It's just incredibly frustrating to watch Malcolm Hitch wreak havoc on this movie even though it is somewhat dramatically interesting

and the character is interesting and there's not a lot of movies like this but it's just I'm sorry I do want you know some fulfillment and it's really hard you know I don't want to beat this guy but this movie is so fucking long

and it gets very repetitive and it gets repetitive in a stretch that is incredibly frustrating. And I hate that note. I usually find that note kind of lost 15 minutes. This is a movie where you're like, you could have lost 45 minutes.

And in a theater, I've never seen it in a theater. I wonder how it goes over in a theater, being stuck with it. We all were disappointed in it. My girlfriends and I and i said there are those bits like you know that you're like holy shit that's so interesting you know like there are and yeah yeah i mean kidman there's a lot in the dossier about how like campion made her audition constant like it was not easy this was not like oh yeah well they she said cambion said

she regretted approaching nico Nicole about this project until to die for came out because she wasn't sure she could handle the material. Um, I think partly because she'd had Kidman and had this like half decade in Hollywood, if not really being used that way. Right. Right.

Like, so, uh, but Kidman won, like Kidman heard like champions making portrait of the lady. I want to be in that. Right. And obviously they had had that early interaction.

She said she wanted her to be in the short film. I think she's beautiful in this movie. I mean, she has that alabaster skin, the blue eyes. She looks very... It's very kid. Just a very striking person. And it is that thing of just, like, her look has gotten so abstracted over the years.

Where even just like the amount of changes she's made to her hair. It's like she's incapable of going back to her natural hair state, I think, at this point. And it is so fascinating to look at like this color and this texture. Well, the hair was a very deliberate decision to have her hair be curly. Because I think, did she say she hated her hair curly? So three things. Kidman, as we we say requested the 19 inch corset she wanted to be like psychologically in pain restricted cool uh two she wanted curly hair because um she had it that way when she was young and she didn't like herself like that she did not want to be quote unquote beautiful like

she wanted to look a bit odd, I guess. She's still very beautiful. She's also just incredibly striking. Obviously her relationship with Campion, you know, endures. They're really close. She's supposed to be in the cut. Right. She's in China Girl.

Like, you know, like she speaks very highly of Campion. Like she's on the award circuit with her right now. Yeah. Being Ricardo's. Yeah. Apparently they've interacted and they're, you know, whatever. Yeah. she speaks very highly of Campion. Like, she's on the awards circuit with her right now, being Ricardo's in Power. But, like, apparently they've interacted and they're, you know, whatever. It's an enduring friendship.

No, I was just going to say, I feel like her hair was sort of, like, a defining characteristic of her. The 295 movie, she has straight and, like, blonde hair, right? Absolutely. But so much of it was like, oh, she's... Her hair's kind of red and bad. Curly, fiery, you know.

Used to be that. Strawberry blonde. By the time she gets to the 2000s, it's like no looking back. She's straight from here on out. Right? Well, she's got red hair and Moulin Rouge.

But straight. But straight. Yeah, the curly hair is gone. I don't know. I mean, what'd she look like in Lion? I don't remember what she looked like. She has...

She's kind of dowdy. She's got grayish, blondish, brownish, short hair. She got an Oscarcar she did get an oscar very good i like i like that movie yeah it made me cry i don't love that movie but that's maybe like i like kidman a lot but i sometimes feel like i'm uh i disagree on which modern kidman's work for me and which ones which which ones do you which as opposed to classic kidman sure i mean modern kidman's work for me and which ones don't. Which ones do you, which As opposed to classic Kidman? Sure. Modern Kidman, you sort of mean like post-Oscar Kidman or whatever.

I'd say like last 10, 12 years. Sure, sure, sure. What's your fave Kidman? I mean, I remember being very, now I gotta look at a fucking list. But like, I remember being a little bit disappointed by her performance in Rabbit Hole. Yeah yeah not a movie

I haven't seen which I just felt like oh she'll kill that she got an Oscar nomination for that she did she did the paper boy

love her in the paper boy that's a fun one I like Kid Minion to steal a phrase from Lex G Bozo Mode so paper boy

Stoker I love her in yes love her in Aquaman she is good Stoker. I love her in Aquaman. She is good in Aquaman. I haven't seen Aquaman. You should check it out. She's good in Beguiled.

Yeah, I like her in Beguiled. She's great in Killing Secret Deer. She is, although, she is, you know, like everyone except for Colin Farrell and Barry Keegan are kind of props in that movie. In that weird Yorgos Lanthimos way. But she is good. There's so many weird, weird like don't exist Kidman movies I mean she's fun in Paddington I was gonna say a weirdly

underrated performance no one talks about how she tried to get that because people love two so much and they love Hugh Grant it's like she fucking did it first she's fun obviously she's great in Just Go With It great in The Prom it is funny that the, I think the only two Kidmans,

or three Kidmans, the podcast has covered. Aquaman, Bewitched, and Happy Feet. Is that it? I think that's it. And this is the fourth.

This is the fourth? It is funny sometimes how, how we never touch the things they're known for. Right, the prism for some of the biggest movie stars that we exclusively see them through. Yeah, that's funny. And it's not like she hasn't. Obviously, she's worked with plenty of major directors

over the years. And I do feel like now she's in this phase where she's like, I mostly want to work with major directors. Or like Yorgos Lanthimos, she was basically like, I'd like to be in a movie if you want to put me in one but then same with robert eggers right she's in the north oh she works she that's that's gonna be something to look she works so fucking much you're like

works a lot ricardo's nine perfect strangers the prom the undoing well that's the amc commercials three tv like miniseries yeah exactly aquaman boy erased destroyer those are all just the last four years she works a ton um she's married to keith urban right she's still married to him yeah she is they're very much in love according to instagram i went i covered the red carpet and after party for the golden compass i may have mentioned this on this podcast oh wow um and i remember her showing up with urban and she's taller than him right yeah and it was always that funny thing of like after years of the Tom Cruise thing and everyone the joke

of like her being like I can wear heels now I'm like she married another shorty guy she's a shorty short kind of looks like Tom Cruise when she divorced him the long hair is very like oh sure vanilla sky mission impossible period of like interesting hookups post Tom Cruise where it's like, is she dating Lenny Krause?

They were engaged. I know there were, like, a lot. But do you remember, like, every time there'd be the, like, have you heard that Nicole Kidman might be dating? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's one of the only Jimmy Fallon interviews I like. Have you guys seen that clip?

Where he and Paris Hilton talk about it? When Jimmy Fallon was at, like, peak SNL heartthrob and she was, like, Nicole Kidman post that clip? Where he and Paris Hilton talk about their t-shirt? When Jimmy Fallon was at like peak SNL heartthrob and she was like Nicole Kidman post-divorce. Okay. Oh, so they're on the couch together. Yes, and she invited herself back to his apartment and he just played PlayStation.

And it's like the only time I've seen Jimmy Fallon kind of actually like... So, I see. They're talking, they're recollecting about this. She's like, that time I tried to sleep with you. And he's like, only time I've seen Jimmy Fallon kind of actually like. So I see. They're talking. They're recollecting about this. She's like that time I tried to sleep with you. And he's like, what are you talking about? Oh, my God.

I've never seen that. I would kill myself. He's like so mortified. He's like mortified by it. Especially since like she at that point is a super famous movie star. He was just like, I had no idea. And he's like a guy who's on SNL. Right.

He was just like, I didn't understand why you'd be here. And she's like, I had no idea. He's like a guy who's on SNL. Right. He was just like, I didn't understand why you'd be here. And she's like, I'm like throwing myself at you and you're playing PlayStation. PlayStation 1. Right.

But she's sort of saying like, it made me realize like, this is like a boy. I need to be with a man. Oh my God. It's pretty savage, but it's incredible. Wow.

That's really cool. Anyway. So the end of this, the end of this movie, it ends and with like a very 400 blows antoine duanel freeze frame yeah i we don't know what we don't know what uh decision this character runs away from a kiss from figo um you don't it happens though i i didn't watch she so she she she yeah she found out they may have texted me around two hours before this So I didn't watch to the end of the movie. She thought they were brothers.

She found out that. Ben may have texted me around two hours before this recording started saying like, hey, this movie isn't streaming. Can you get me a Taryn? And I was like, it's about two and a half hours long. That might have happened. Okay. That may have happened. Maybe.

That's blank check legends. It's not canon. Right. No. She gets a telegram that her cousin, Ralph Touchett, is about to die. Touchett. Ralph Touchett.

Do I have a Ralph Touchett here? And she wants to go back to England to be by his side. And John Malkovich is like, if you went, you'd be making a terrible mistake. And she doesn't know what to do. And she finds this thing what to do. And she finds this thing out about the fact that Madame Merle

is Pansy's mother. Shelley Duvall, who's so good in this. So good in this. And this is sort of her last run before she sort of retires. It's the tail end of her career as an actress. But it's a very fascinating use of her. Yeah, she's really fun.

Yeah. I really like her in this movie. Yeah, good. I obviously love Shelley Duvall. Yes, she's got this scene where she's trying to get Nicole Kidman to figure it out without having to spell it out in a sort of classic Shelley Duvall kind of way. And that leads to the confrontation with Barbara Hershey. In the rain. Right.

And so Kidman does end up escaping to London. She's with her cousin as he dies. And he gives her the additional reveals. This last chunk of the movie is everyone being like, you didn't know what was going on the whole fucking time? Yeah. And she has this moment with Viggo in the snow. Where Viggo's basically like, don't go back.

Yeah, he's like, we figured it out. We all, all of your old friends have figured out how to get you out of this abusive relationship. Right. And you have enough money, we'll make it work. It feels a little something about Mary, where like all the suitors have teamed up. Yeah. And they're just like, as long as it's not magical. Right, right, exactly. Let's just knock this guy off the table. And they're just like, as long as it's not mad. Right. Right. Exactly.

Let's just knock this guy off the table. And much is in the book. We don't know. We don't know what she's going to do. Yeah. And it would be funny if Jane was like, well, I'm going to add an ending,

but that's like, like China did with fight club. Right. Yeah. Which is just in the news. I've been, I tried to parse that. When does it stop before the end of the movie?

Do you see buildings blowing up? Have you heard about this? Yes. My understanding is you see the buildings collapse and then it says shortly thereafter they were all apprehended. Yes. But I believe it also says they stopped the bombs or something. And my favorite part is it says that Tyler... Maybe they don't see the buildings.

Tyler went to jail. Tyler, the building so tyler went to jail yeah tyler who is not real right went to jail and was rehabilitated and got out of jail it's like there could be a sequel where he's good they stole the end title cards from unbreakable right where it's like tyler durden is now in a prison for the criminally insane yeah but like it's anyway i like it People were mad about that. I was like, I don't know. Yeah, more of that.

I want to see the China cut of everything. Let them cut it all the way. The China cut of Portrait of a Lady is like, and then John Malkovich died as he should. He went straight to hell.

Pansy was free from the convent. Why did they add that? I don't understand. They wanted to prove the crime doesn't pay or whatever. Right. The film's too countercultural.

Which makes no sense. You can't watch Fight Club. I definitely thought this was about a guy who was gonna get caught they stopped the bombs and police apprehended everyone involved yeah poochie returned died on his way back home to his planet yeah yeah so i mean so that's pretty much how portrait of a lady ends right and so you walk out you know with your half-eaten nacho box, your big gulp of Mountain Dew, and you're like, I don't know,

I could totally land. Yeah, no. But it is funny if you talk about, or not funny, it's interesting. And Campion's like overarching career narrative, I don't think people really cite this as the big bounce.

No, they think of the Holy Smoke in the cut combo. It's the real bounce. I think this was seen as a disappointment. And then the next two movies, people were like, what the fuck is she doing? The thing is, like I said, even though this movie made no money, I do think the Oscar noms helped its reputation skate. And then obviously also also even a female director if you've done the piano

I do think you can survive a bomb or two. It's not like Karen Kusama where it's like one flop straight to your head. Because the piano has been such a thing. And obviously she's from another country. But yes, this film premiered at Venice. Got a limited Christmas release. Just what you want to see at Christmas.

Feel good. Ho, ho, ho. Yeah. Wait, are we moving to the box office? We will in a second. Oh, okay. Well, no. I just, final thoughts,

because I just wanted to offer something, but continue. No, I want to hear these final thoughts. Ready and waiting. Fire them out. All right. So, like, you know how in movies there's, like, a disclaimer?

Like, animals are not harmed. There's going to be a lot of lights. Sure. Disclamer. Or animals. But no, you mean like, sure, like if you've got epilepsy, this is a movie with a lot of strobes. This should have come with an ADD warning.

Because I had to, like you would have had to have strapped me down to the couch. Ben had two fidget spinners going. Yeah. I couldn't, I like could not couch. Yeah. I couldn't, I could not watch the movie. I couldn't watch it. I was just like,

I know things are happening. And yet, I know I am not, it's not registered. I know what you mean. This is like the opposite of like a Netflix movie where like, if you put this on in the background, you would absorb zero percent.

Right. Like you're just doing other stuff. Did you find this or an angel at my table more difficult to get through um this really you liked an angel at my table i like i like an angel at my table a lot but the first like hour and a half of that movie it was difficult before she's interesting i i was pretty immediately the thing with angel my table is it's like you are following one person's journey in a fairly straight line so like you can at least grab onto that i guess you know i mean i know what you mean

that obviously it's more abstract and yeah yeah kind of you know broken up memories early on so it's sort of like what am i watching i feel like i've talked about this but my most extreme example of what you're talking about ben still remains in the seven years of doing this podcast k19 the widow maker where i just could not watch that fucking movie that i'd like put it on and i fall asleep and i'd be like okay time to give it another shot and then i fall asleep again sometimes it's not even the movie it's just it's whatever you're not in the mood for you know a heavy soviet drama it was like submarine i usually i watch like the movies the day of right before right which i think you shouldn't do but that's what you know you think that but i like

to be hyper fresh or whatever that was where i do feel like i like it fresh i like it i like it i like a hot and fresh baby um but that was one where i was like trying to watch it four days before we recorded or whatever and i was just like like, maybe not in the mood. Went back to it the next day and I was like, maybe it's more of an evening movie. Like, I just kept on trying. Yeah, interesting question to post the blankies. What is the most boring movie we've ever covered? Weight of Water will

come up a lot. Weight of Water is going to be my number two. Weight of Water is going to come up for sure. What's the movie about the sky? Aloha? Aloha is wild. Aloha, you're sort of like, what? Yeah. I want to point out that this film,

Barbara Hershey got... David, did you ever receive the copy of Elizabethtown I sent you? Oh yeah, it's on the shelf. You never talked about it? I think I took a picture of it and forgot to send it to the group. Is there an Elizabethtown steelbook? No, but it is on the special edition. Right.

The Paramount presents or selects label or whatever it's called. I'm going to watch it again sometime. David was saying he was considering

watching it and then I bought him a copy of it on the Blink Check company card. Very good. And then you never told me.

I totally am sure it arrived early in parenthood they are both wearing bomba socks I want to point out this film Barbara Hershey won the Golden Globe sorry was nominated for the Golden Globe

won LAFCA and won the National Society of Film Critics Awards for Best Supporting Actress Martin Donovan won Best Supporting Actor at the National Society of Film Critics that's an interesting pick yeah that's interesting i think he's good oh he is good i just always i'm happy to see him yeah uh and you know this is the year this is 96 so i feel like secrets and lies is a big critics favorite breaking the waves was a big critics favorite like attack of the euro

indie year where they're like hollywood can't even get a movie in. Right. This is the Fargo year. Because Jerry Maguire is like the one Hollywood movie. Right. So obviously Fargo is a big one. Everyone Says I Love You, The People vs. Larry Flint

seems to be a big night is popping up on some of these. And National Society Film Critics gave Best Actor to Eddie Murphy

for The Naughty Professor. Cool. A fun win. Yes. Anyway. I remember Elvis Mitchell was like all about that. That season.

He just kept on saying like, why is no one taking this seriously? He's the best actor contender. Fair point. But this film opened to Venice and got a, you know, muted to negative response. So they weren't chanting portrait,

portrait, like they did with Angel. No. I mean. Sort of like a light clap. Kind of. Obviously, as we all say,

as we were saying at the beginning, you know, the piano cast such a long shadow. So it was sort of ripe a light clap. Kind of. Obviously, as we all say, as we were saying, the piano casts such a long shadow, so it was sort of ripe for a backlash. It was like, okay, finally, Jane Campion's put a foot wrong. I'll say this, too. I know it was done partially in tribute, but Portrait of a Lady on Fire

has really fucked up the SEO on this movie. It has. It is, of course, a sequel to this film. Yes. There was candles, but not a lot of fire in this. course, a sequel to this film. Yes. There was really like, there was candles, but not a lot of fire in this. No, not a lot of fire. If you go on Letterboxd,

like every dumb little review, people are like, she wasn't on fire. I was like, watch another movie, bozos. Hey, Marie, that's funny. Yeah, hold on. I'm going to log that.

That's a really good choice. The first time you see it, it's funny. The second time you see it, it's stupid. The second time you see it, it's stupid. If you wrote a review like that and you're listening, good freaking job. You're cool. And I like it. I'm going to post that review right now

and I ask that all of our listeners like it. Okay. Lee Marshall. I want to say Lee Marshall of The Independent who loved this film said that he thinks the backlash was partly because the piano had been such a big deal but I do love this quote.

We should put it on the blank check letterbox. We should all put it. No, we're not putting it on the blank check letterbox. Marie White runs that and she wouldn't want it. No, I mean, normally I just, for these new releases, I just do the episode descriptions, but hey. Look, I'm doing a review and I don't want anyone

stealing my thunder. You haven't done a Letterboxd review in a minute, Griffin. The last one I did was, uh, Busted made me feel bad after seeing Afterlife, and I think that was my first review in three years. Because I didn't like everyone fucking trying to triangulate what we're doing on the podcast by looking at our

activities. I know. I've been sneaky on the Letterboxd. David, sorry, what were you saying? Lee Marshall's quote busy writing my incredible review lee marshall's quote the fuck why wasn't she on fire one star um about the venice film festival premiere the atmosphere of fully armed belligerence at the press screening was so thick you could have cut it with a chainsaw as we shuffled in the press rep warned me, this is a film you need to be wide awake for. Oh, okay.

Afterwards, following some perfunctory applause, the audience filed out in silence. You could spot the daily newspaper critics by the worried look in their eyes, a look which said, for Christ's sakes, I've got a deadline. What the hell am I meant to think about this film? Do you relate to that? I do relate to that in that

like i don't have to write i i'm not like a i work for a trade so it's not like i walk out of a festival and have to be like okay i gotta have an opinion in half an hour but definitely you see those movies where you're like i i don't know give me give me a day yeah i i don't know and this certainly probably would be need to digest need to digest um but didn't get great reviews uh ebert as you said Was basically like If you haven't read the book I don't know how this movie makes any sense to you

And why the fuck is Malkovich in this movie He's so malevolent Why would she ever marry him Campion's take is He's malevolent in the book Honestly there's something kind of hot About how malevolent he is. I agree with that.

That's her take. I don't want to do the limited weekend for this because that's when Michael came out. So we did that fairly recently. So how about the expanding weekend? Let's expand it. Let's expand our minds. I'm going to make sure we've never...

Okay. So the Portrait of a Lady expands on January 17th. A Lady expands. A Lady expands to 570 theaters and makes $1.4 million. Marie! Expands into more theaters, I mean. How much did it make? Again, I missed that.

In its expansion, it made $1.4 million. Its total domestic gross is $3.6. Wow. So it's a front-load weekend. Yeah. Number one at the box office is a comedy film starring, I think, someone who had recently died, or he was about to. Candy? No, it's Chris Farley.

Is it Almost Heroes? No. Okay. It's not Almost Heroes. It is Chris Farley, and he dies this year. It's Beverly Hills Ninja. So, this is his last, pretty much his last goal. It's Beverly Hills Ninja. Right, his last pretty much death vehicle. Right, exactly.

But it is opening number one on January 17th to $12 million. Is that a Port Classic, Ben? Yeah, Ben, I'm looking at you here. He's deep in contemplation about whether or not it qualifies. Because it's kind of bad. It's kind of bad, right?

I've never seen it. Kung Fu, of course, is the tagline. Which is a good tagline. I just watched the trailer for that for the first time. I didn't know. Why'd you do that? Because I had a conversation with my friends about Almost Heroes. My friend watched it

and he was like, my friend Chad, who is a fan of the podcast. He was like, you know, he thought it might secretly be good because I, Christopher Guest directed it.

Right. That's almost here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's like, no, it is terrible.

And you're watching like two actors with very serious substance abuse issues. Right. It's like, and Harry both. Yeah.

It's like, yeah. So he's like, it was a miserable watch. Right. And that comes out after he died. Yeah.

But that like, I, the only farley movie i've seen is uh tommy boy which is pretty much where you have to put it yeah it's i really liked it but i was like oh beverly hills ninja like what's kung fu you want you want him to have made other good movies i didn't realize that that movie is about like him being like adopted by a group of like ninjas ninjas because they think like that he is the chosen one so it's sort of a kung fu panda situation yeah this unlikely guy for some reason

but then but then they were like oh what if we put some meat into it nicolette all i remember about it is that he kind of like, he always would be clean shaven. And in that movie, he kind of has a little bit of scruff. And he's got like a bowl haircut. He's got a bowl haircut. Right. Kung Fu.

I'm going to keep trying. I didn't get it. I didn't get it at first, but it's starting to clear up for me a little bit. He just looks sad. He looks sad. Do you know, they did a direct-to-video Beverly Hills Ninja sequel

in the last 10 years. Do you know who they cast to replace Chris Farley? I do not know. Okay, so by 2010, you're doing Beverly Hills Ninja Well, there's the obvious... Just tell me,

who is in Beverly Hills? Who's the obvious person you're thinking of? Like a Kevin James, maybe. Of course. No, obvious. Very close to who they picked. David Hasselhoff.

What? Well, that's just another direction. 2010. Beverly Hills. That's like an extra credit assignment for blankies if you want to watch that. We're going to do them on the Patreon. You know, the Farley thing, right?

It's basically what? Like Airheads, Tommy Boy, Black Sheep, Beverly Hills Ninja, Almost Heroes. That's basically any movie. Billy Madison. Billy Madison has a small role. Wayne's World, he pops up. He's in both Wayne's Worlds, different roles. Yeah, but like forget Airheads even. It's really just

Tommy Boy, Black Sheep, Beverly Hills Ninja, Almost Heroes. It's four vehicles. It's always the same, right? He's always like, fuck up, who's goofy, but you love him, right? He never devi always the same, right? He's always like, fuck up. Yeah. Who's goofy, but you love him, right? Like, he never deviated from that, right? No. He was just going to do that for a while.

Well, that was his whole thing, right? That was his whole thing. Like, he needed to be loved. Like, he loved to be loved. He loved to be loved. But like, when was, do you think like, say Chris Farley figures it out?

Yeah. Like, is there a phase where he's like, what if I played someone scarier? What if I played someone more villainous? I don't know. There were things he was supposed to... I mean, what? He was going to play Shrek. He was going to play Shrek. He recorded a lot of it.

He recorded 60% of the movie. Really? A very famous what-if scenario. Bizarre thing about Shrek is they designed it for him. He recorded 60% of the movie. They were animating it.

They died. They were like, fuck, sunk cost. We have to start over, right? They hire Mike Myers. Mike Myers records 60% of the movie. They start animating it. They do a rough screening with like 60% animated. He goes to Jeffrey Katzenberg and he's like, I think you should be Scottish. And he's like, Mike, it will cost me $20 million to throw

this out and start over and reanimate if you want to be Scottish. He's like Mike it will cost me 20 million dollars to throw this out and start over and reanimate if you want to be Scottish he's like I really think you should be Scottish and they do the third time through and it works I mean that was the right when did they like just like don't care don't care don't care

do you think that's what it was like Katzenberg's like that's a bad idea and he went don't care and Katzenberg's eyes dollar sign he's like that's a bad idea and he went don't care. Katzenberg's eyes are dollar sign. He's like shit. God damn it. At what point in the production history do they decide to get rid of Shrek's hair? Did Shrek have hair? Shrek had hair.

Did he have a bowl cut? Kung Fu? That happens I think after the Farley death. They redesigned the whole character. I know if you go to the Academy Museum in Hollywood they have an original maquette of Shrek with hair. He redesigned the whole character. Because if you, I know if you go to the Academy Museum in Hollywood, they have an original, like, maquette of Shrek

with hair. Yeah, he had a little, he had a little bowl cut. Because it was a William Steig book. It is. And the original Farley version, he was much closer to that art style.

And then I think after Farley died, that changed. No, I think, because it was also, like, Farley, there were always things that got thrown,

I'm trying to remember now, there are other movies that were, like, written for Farley. Of course, you hear a lot of those. That got made. County vehicles. Later. Five years later, right.

That were slightly different types. Right. And I feel like he was one of the people who would get thrown around for Confederacy of Dunces because anytime someone's about to die. Any road. They say that maybe they're going to do Confederacy. Yeah, it's a. No, it is. but also it happened with Will Ferrell and it happened with Galifianakis it happens with fucking everybody Tommy Boy is the only one

that gets it right and it's weird that it's the first one and you don't think that guy would necessarily work as the lead of a movie and they cracked it in terms of him actually having a sense of humanity and integrity to him and trying really hard and then they fuck it up and then he dies. Number two at the box office

is another film starring a comedy icon. We were just talking about him. Mike Myers? Indirectly, no. But a co-star of Mike Myers, not. Chandler? Another SNL guy? No.

Well, yes, he is an SNL guy. Eddie Murphy? Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy. Not a Mike Myers contemporary, but an snl guy um probably one of his most forgotten films in this sort of like i i feel like dr doolittle has maybe just or is about to come out like dr doolittle i think comes out in 97 this and this is jan 97 so like this is sort of the end of his like okay adult sure star sort of swoon right his adult star swoon.

He's about to swear. Obviously, he had Nutty Professor the year before. This isn't Holy Man, is it? It's not Holy Man. That comes out post-Dr. Dolittle. That's another weird flop. Is it Bowfinger? It's not Bowfinger.

Is it Metro? It's Metro. Thank you. Metro? What is Metro? He's like a hostage negotiator. Is it funny? I think he's a little funny in it, but it's like

more of an action movie. Eddie had that weird thing in the 90s where he got very jealous of Wesley Snipes. And it's why Beverly Hills Cop 3 has two jokes in it. And why he did Metro where he was just like, I want to be able to be an action star.

But Metro is still marketed as like, this negotiator's got one big mouth. It's trying to just like, I want to be able to be an action star. But like Metro is still marketed as like, this negotiator's got one big mouth. It's trying to be like, don't worry, Eddie's here. But he's like funny the way like Samuel L. Jackson is funny in Die Hard with a Vengeance. It's not an action comedy necessarily.

Metro, not a big hit. Number three at the box office, a musical. Number three at the box office, Ev musical. Number three at the box office, a musical. Evita. Helen Parker's Evita. Is that the one where it's like, don't cry for me, Argentina?

You nailed it. It's not the one where she says, Kung Fu. Oh, okay. She comes out of the balcony. It's getting better. Kung Fu! Not a good movie, She comes out of the balcony. It's getting better. Come full. Not a good movie, but you watch it

and you are like, God damn. Like, I do love how fucking blown out this is. It's a picture. You know, it is a picture. What other? Banderas is smoking hot.

Jonathan Pryce is smoking hot. He is smoking cold. What? He's cold cut. Andrew Lloyd Webber adaptations. Cats. Jesus Christ Superstar. Who's in Jesus Christ Superstar?

Me? No, I don't know. Were you in Jesus Christ Superstar? No, I wasn't actually. My school did do a production. We did Godspell. No one famous is in the 70s. Schumacher, Phantom of the Opera.

Phantom of the opera, yes. Is Evita the best one? That's a good question. It might be. It's kind of the classiest one. Like when they finally do Phantom, it's junky. Like that movie is fun in its way,

but it's a Joel Schumacher movie. It's very junky, right? Which I think is a good match for him in a way because he's a junky guy. Yes. But he thinks of himself as a, you know, prestige.

I guess Les Mis, I mean, it won awards, but does that. Les Mis stinks. Yeah. Evita is way better. Yeah. Stinks.

Yeah. Is there any, I'm like, are we forgetting? So obviously Cats is a disaster. I do think the Norman Jewison Jesus Christ Superstar is good. I've never seen it. Underrated.

So maybe... But I think, yeah, sure. Evita. Give it to Evita. Sure. Number four at the box office is a horror film that's dropped from number one

the week before. A classic January release. Like a dump? Does this movie have any merit, David? I think it is... it's one of those movies i've always wanted to see it's a monster movie huh uh it was it's the kind of movie where the poster doesn't have any people on it just a building what um and it's about the monster it's like there's a monster on the loose okay it's got the classic America's favorite two stars in the 90s. Penelope Ann Miller and Tom

Sykes. Is this like Alligator? No. Is the name of the movie the name of the creature? No. No. What the fuck is this? It's directed by Peter Hyams. Okay.

And it made $48 million worldwide. The poster's a building. It's a monster movie. I believe it was meant to be set in the American Museum of Natural History, but I think it's actually set in the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. But something...

Does a dinosaur come to life? It's like a lizard thing, like a South American lizard monster comes to life and goes on a killing spree in a museum. Wow, sounds great. Yeah. Relic. Relic? The relic.ic the relic the yes okay i always get that confused with mimic i just oh yes well mimic is a better movie

that's del toro yes obviously i just like where that's one of the worst posters i don't know there's a light in a building no no it's a shit take your medicine piggy i'm tired it's january i don't know there's a relic it's january figure it out that tired. It's January. I don't know. There's a relic. It's January. Figure it out. That should have been the tagline for this movie. I don't know. It's January.

Who's in it? Fuck you, Penelope Ann Miller. Satisfied? Maybe. Linda Hunt is in this too. I bet you it's good. Is there a relic series? Is this a Patreon contender?

Yeah, Relics Number 5 of the box office is one of my favorite films of all time We've covered it on the list It's Jerry Maguire Doing great in it's 6th week You've also got Scream You've got Michael You've got The People vs. Larry Flint

You've got 101 Dalmatians Oh, with Glenn And you've got Jackie Chan's First Strike Kung Fu No, not this guy Not this guy You know, a solid January Some crap

But you could also go see Evita or Jerry Maguire Catch up on Scream The movie all the kids are seeing It's got that Catch up on Scream, the movie all the kids are seeing. Yeah. It's got that kind of font. Scream. Yeah. Oh, on my shirt.

Yeah. The DVD font. Very 90s font. Yeah. Do you see Scream yet? No. New Scream? I have not seen New Scream. I was going to go to the last showing at the United Artists Court Street.

We lost another great theater recently. We did Prayers Up. I mean, not that I hadn't been since my experience with Molly's Game there, but I mean, I love it. What was your experience with Molly's Game? Dicks out for you at Court Street. My experience at Molly's Game was the movie did not start. Right? Like, we're

honestly, like, that's kind of good. Joey and I were just sitting there and after like 20 minutes, I was like, okay. And so I go and find someone and I was like, the movie didn't start. And they're like, okay. So the movie started half an hour late. But whatever. And we're sitting watching the movie.

And then half an hour before the movie's supposed to be end, curtains close, lights come up. It was just on a timer. And it was during a very intense scene. A classic one. Bob is attacking her. It was just something like timer and it was during a very intense scene like a classic one so bob is like attacking her right she breaks into her home like all right everybody out classic i never had any of like the iconically terrible experiences there that people had i've had wonderful experiences there but i certainly have had a few of them right my friend got kicked out of the

theater for yelling this movie sucks balls during van housing which is egregious because there is no theater which people yelled more often at any movie and they had like three employees escort him out right well i've also told the story about when i took a date there to see a soul plane and there was uh one african-american man in the theater and like 15 hasidic jews and then two 15 year olds on a date. And everyone was uncomfortable. Like the dynamics were just incredibly bizarre. That's like a, that's a real Brooklyn experience.

It was. Yes. Yes. Yes. I saw the last movie I saw there was in the Heights, a completely empty theater. So I just got to take my phone out and get photos of the Dear Evan Hansen trailer the whole time. Yeah. It was just so big.

I think Dr. Sleep was the last thing I saw there. I haven't been there in a really long time but I'll share what I loved about that theater is Checkers was across the street so I would go because I would be kind of baked. Popeye's next door as well. It was kind of a haven. But I would just get some chicken sandwiches

and eat those while watching the movie. All true. Shout out my little pizzeria, my favorite pizzeria around there on Court Street. Love that spot. There's a good banh mi shop across the way. It was a very New York theater. That's all we can say about it.

Vulture wrote a great piece with a bunch of different accounts of people. I've seen more movies there in this country at least than in any other theater. Just because that was the spot. You said in this country? Yeah. Kung fu! I walked there during Hurricane Sandy

because we were desperate to leave our apartment and so we all walked from Bed-Stuy to Court Street to see Flight. Great movie to see during a storm. Great movie to see during a storm. You rolled it. Yeah.

You're feeling all right. Yeah. Okay, we're done. Thank you all for listening. There we go. That's a segue, babe. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barley.

For social media and so many other things. You're welcome. Thanks for having me on. Always a pleasure. It's, it's, it's, it's like,

you know, it's, it's going to be a while until I'm on again. I think judging on what we're doing in the future. You're good. You're yeah. Thank you to AJ McKeon, Alex Barron for our

editing, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. Thank you, J.J. Birch and Gloriano for our research. You can go blankiesireread.com for some real nerdy shit. Our website's

going to be launching soon, and everything's going to be centralized, so I no longer have to list 17 different websites at the end of each episode. So look out for that. That's where March Madness voting will be happening. That's where it will be easier to find our merch, including new chip coins and the Spreadmaster spatula,

our commemorative item for the 2021 ranking of the walk. Do you know about this? Do you know that we made a custom spatula? Oh, yeah. The Spreadmaster. The Spreadmaster. Refer to the spatula by its proper name. Think about it.

At home, you want to get your spread on. You want to spread it up. You want to get spreaded. You know what to reach for. You're trying to frost a cake or're trying to like frost a cake or something. Yeah. Frost a spread master. Just trying to get down in that bowl.

Yeah. Grab yourself a spread master. Talking the walk 2021 blank check podcast merch. David has fallen into the sunken place. No, I'm just looking at. No, I'm fine. I'm good. I just got it.

Yeah, he is floating sort of down. I just got a... Wait, yeah, he is floating sort of down. I just got a text from my friends with a link to a one-star review of the portrait of a lady that says, da fuck? Why wasn't she on fire?

Huh, that sounds like a pretty funny review. That's actually... Hold on. I actually... I'm laughing when I hear that. That was good. And I actually beg our listeners to like this because by the time this episode comes out, probably 15 different film bro guys on Twitter

have captioned, have screenshotted my review and gone, why does anyone listen to this guy's podcast? Seriously, people actually listen to this guy? I guarantee that's happened at least 10 times by now, so I'm asking the blankies to just hit that fucking like button. Smash that like button. I hate this so much.

Why are we not done? We are done. Okay. Tune in next week for Holy Smoke with Kyle Buchanan. Yeah. The great Kyle Buchanan. That's right.

Great app. Great app. Fun app. Corker. It's a cork. There's right. Great app. Great app. Fun app. Corker. It's a corker. There's an incredible Campion tidbit. Some good Campion

IRL tidbits in that one. I haven't seen that movie. I'm excited to watch it. I think you're going to enjoy watching it. I hear that there's some pee in it. Yeah, there sure is.

Yup. Yup, indeed. We also get into a lot of Mad Max talk because Kyle's got a new book on Mad Max talk because I'm a Mad Max hero which is really listen to that

and as always Kung Fu damn right thank you donkey