Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Postman with Emily St. James

Episode Date: July 28, 2024

This week’s movie has everything - fake teeth on Giovanni Ribisi, a mule performing Shakespeare, Tom Petty, Kevin Costner’s irresistible sperm…you read that correctly. This film has a major plot line that revolves around Kevin Costner’s sperm. Our beloved Emily St. James joins us to talk about Kevin Costner’s colossal 1997 flop, the post-apocalyptic ode to the US Postal Service - THE POSTMAN. There are parts of this movie that are truly moving. There are other parts of this movie where Kevin Costner and Will Patton wrestle in slow motion. It’s a fascinating text. Buy Emily’s Book about Lost: LOST: Back to the Island: The Complete Critical Companion to The Classic TV Series Be on the lookout for Emily’s Novel “Woodworking” out April 2025 - Read more HERE   This episode is sponsored by: MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) Harry’s (harrys.com/check) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Wouldn't it be great if wars could just be fought by the podcast who started them? Wait, what? Replacing the word assholes. Now, I think I got in my head. I said right before we started recording, I think I'm going to struggle this entire mini series on the difference between Costner and Biden.

Biden's just older. I, he's got to youth it up. Felt like I used to have a good Costner. Sure. From time spent in the trenches. Costner is someone who like, you should be able to do like an impression of, cause he has a more distinctive voice. Yeah.

Yeah. It's better, but especially in the nineties, he's got the very California vibe and now he's like, yeah, there's like, yeah. Yeah. He is one of those guys who secretly you're like, oh, of course you're from like the wilds of Montana, right? He's like, no, no, he's not. But anyway, carry on. The first thing he ever said to me

when they introduced me to him on the set of Draft Day on my first day of filming, he went, so where are you from? And I went New York and he went, New York. And he went, New York. A real actor, not one of these surfer guys. Right. You've told me that before, I think. He said, not like one of these body boarders.

Wow. Body boarders found dead in the water. Yeah. And I immediately was like, I don't know if I'm a real act. I just live in New York. What if you then turned around and you turned, you were holding a boogie board and you're just like, oh, forget it. Boogie board, sorry. I said body board. It was boogie board. I will say, I will say What if you then turned around and you turned, you were holding a boogie board and just like, Oh, forget it.

Boogie board. Sorry. I said body board. It was boogie board. I will say, I will say I look at you and I can tell you've never been on a boogie board. So. And he clocked that correctly, but yes, no, there is that weird. There's that part of him that's like half cowboy, half surfer dude. Right. Very laconic. By, by even when he's old,'s always got more, I'm losing. I miss I'm there.

Mushy together in the middle. Biden's hard to do like Biden is not like there's a reason he's not been easy to like do on SNL. I mean, it's the fascinating thing of like no one had a Biden. Even like when Sadakus did Biden on SNL was one of those things where it's like he's just made a character with a Biden way. He's made something completely up that's not resembled a man at all.

Right. Right. And then Dana Carvey did that one interview where he's like, I think I figured out Biden. And now everyone once again, just does their impression of Dana Carvey's impression. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Who does it now?

Cause it's not Johnson. Because they didn't want him to play both. Of course it makes sense. So now it's Mikey Day. And it's like Mikey Day is doing an impression of James Austin Johnson's impression of Dana Carvey which like jazzes fucking Biden is good, but it's also like his Trump is better and Everyone is just doing once again like the George HW Bush like oh we just all took the rhythms of what Dana Carvey identified. You got to read the economy.

Remember when Jim Carrey did fire marshal bill for a year as Biden? Yes. And everyone was just like, this is bad. Universally, there was never any interest in it whatsoever. And they were just like, Carrie's coming back for six more. Right. And then Biden was elected president and they were like, so what we need to do is like find someone who can actually be here every single week,

Woody Harrelson. He was the best. And they did it three times. He made a ton of sense as Biden, but he did it three times. It's like, what a surprise. Woody Harrelson doesn't want to commit to a schedule. He'd be gonna miss.

This is almost like a full hour of conversation. Here's my biggest take on this movie right off the bat, and I'm interested to hear if the two of you agree with me. On paper, it seems like you can see the world in which Kevin Costner directing this movie is a good choice. And you can see the world in which Kevin Costner starring in this movie is a good choice.

And him doing both is disaster. Yes, absolutely. It's definitely a huge problem. It's kind of like Live by Night, like the thing where Affleck finally let himself... Fascinating Live by Night comparison point. Right, like Affleck, because like Affleck's the lead of Argo, obviously, but that's an ensemble movie. He's doing the yeoman's work.

Right. And then in Live by Night, Affleck's like, I'm going to finally star again. I guess he's the star of the town, so maybe I should take it back. But even then, that's a movie where he's letting everyone else have the color. There's stuff, there's like a kind of movie that the person directing can also star in, and it's not a movie where they're playing a messiah figure.

No, it's not. Ever, ever, ever. Especially after you've already kind of done it once. In the water. Yes. No, but the whole time, I just kept flipping back and forth in the mental exercise of, okay, is it better if Costner directs and if so, who stars? Or is it better if he stars and if so,

who needs to be directing? I think it's better if he directs. I think so too. I don't think you should be starring. Clearly he's never directed a film that he didn't star in. So clearly he just wants to star in the movie. It's a package deal. This is my take on this is he should direct.

He should have played like one of the mayors or sheriffs in one of the towns and Billy Bob Thornton should have been the guy. I mean, Thornton is hot right in 1997. That's that's acceptable to me. Woody. Here's my galaxy brain take. I had about halfway through watching. What if Cosner played the Will Patton role?

Yeah. And then you're right. I think the guy you have to cast as the postman is less of a conventional marquee idol guy. To be clear, this, if you're doing the same three hour movie, probably does not fix this film. Unless you guys love this movie. Do you guys love this movie?

No. I liked it more than I remembered liking it, but it doesn't work. I had never seen it before. I was rooting for it so hard. This is a movie where I'm like. I just feel like we're exactly the same. I want the first 45 minutes Yeah, yeah I thought the gas was on and I was like this thing isn't perfect

But I'm like building my defense for why it deserves a little more respect on its name It's not just that the oven stops working like the oven turns into I don't know a washing machine I like it's like the gas is gone. I'd say first hour you're like, this isn't a perfectly functioning oven, but I could make dinner in this. What is everyone complaining about? And the second hour you're like, the gas has been turned off,

but it's still kind of a nice looking oven and I'm remembering the meals I had. And then the third hour you were like, the oven is caught on fire and it's burning down my entire apartment. It is, it's the first hour's oven, second hour's like easy bake oven, where you're like, and, the oven is caught on fire and it's burning down my entire apartment. It's, it's, it's, it's the first hour's oven, second hour's like easy bake oven where you're like, and then the third hour is like,

some guy just comes in and sits on the food and you're like, well, it's going to be warm. Someone's like shining a flashlight on a turkey. You're holding a magnifying glass in the sun, trying to cook it by heat. Yeah, no, it is, it is the fascinating example of a movie that just gets worse and worse as it by heat. Yeah, no, it is the fascinating example of a movie that just gets worse and worse as it goes on.

I watched it on a plane. And watching it on a plane was a great experience because it was a long flight. I was stuck with this movie. The people next to me were watching Wish on their little in-screen, and I was like, this movie seems like it doesn't work at all. The Postman seemed good in comparison.

And this is gonna end, and you're gonna have to watch Wish two more times before you land. Exactly. And so like in that environment, I was like, this movie's kind of working for me. And then the last hour, I was like, oh, no, this is a disaster. And you're watching the whole time I'm watching it and I'm like, I bet he nails the last hour. I bet even with this movie having some inherent issues, the last hour is going to work on some sort of base, like rah rah sort of nationalistic whatever and then you're like Completely falls apart. Yeah, but you also saw this movie in theaters. I saw it in theaters. I've read the book

I am weirdly the one person in America prepared to discuss the price was wondering if you'd read the book the book I'm gonna ask sounds cool. I am Rereading it right now, because I was like, I remember this book being great. It is more overwritten than I remember in that manner of 80s sci-fi, but it's pretty fucking good. Yeah.

Like, yeah. I'm sure this is in the dossier. Emma has always been recommending his, what's it called, the uplift. Oh, the uplift is so good. Right, like his masterful hard sci-fi trilogy. Was this originally serialized in like sci-fi? Yes, so it is in four parts,

although the fourth part is basically an epilogue. The first two parts are novellas that were placed in magazines, and then he was like, I'm going to write a third part, pull it all together. This movie mostly adapts the first section, which is a smart choice, and then they tack on some of the third, which is like a final battle.

I would say that's the bad choice. Yeah. It's one of the bad choices. There's a few. Right. The postman. Griffin, we're here. Well, what's the podcast?

It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. I'm David. I'm... David? I'm pinning this for a second, for a moment. Post-Intro.

Something about Costner line delivery. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, such as winning Best Picture the first time out, making one of the highest-grossing films in history up until that point. Way up there. Those are two different things, right?

Dances with Wolves was one of the higher-grossing. It was like number two in 1990. I mean, only because Home Alone. I'm not saying it was a top 10 movie of all time. Made a lot of money, you're not wrong. I mean, I'm always bad at knowing, you know, what was on what list when, but it made a ton of money. The box office promo doesn't let you adjust anymore.

I'm like, I kind of believe at the time of its release, it was probably in the top 25 highest grossing films of all time. One day, you know what? It's gonna be a project of mine. I'm going to build my own list. Yeah. I'm going to figure it out.

So I know what the top 25 was in any given year. If anyone wants to get on that for me, I will give you a few thousand dollars. This is going to be, that's a true promise. This is going to be your model railroad. Like when you're, when your kid's like 13 and like, she's like, got stuff going on, you're going to be like be in your basement making a spreadsheet. It was an exact science, but fucking, Box Office Mojo used to have the drop-down menu

of any year and you could go like- Used to have hope and jobs and cash. What numbers would the 2017 films make in 1945? That's when I would start zooming out in weird directions. You're Galifianakis at the poker table or whatever it is. Yes. This series is called Podcasts with Wolves. That's right.

That's what we do. That's what we do. We podcast with wolves. And it's such, they've given us that title. This is the second film in the directorial filmography of one Kevin Costner. Which is already a classic mistake of like, and it's very similar to the Affleck thing,

of like, wow, you know what? You proved us all wrong. You're a serious filmmaker, and you did it well with yourself at the center. And then he's like, I'm gonna make a bunch of other shit before I direct again. Well, we'll talk about the, right, the acting he did in between.

He made several great films in that period, and he made several very bad films in that period as well. And he like, weirdly, his blank check extended to the people he worked with. Because like, Wyatt Earp and Waterworld do not exist. No. It's why we're covering him. The amount of blank checkness around this man, right? Obviously helped by the fact that he was a huge movie star on top of the fact that his directorial debut was a

Oscar-winning best picture blocks blockbuster. It's like 20 years of blank check and now he's doing it again the biggest writing his own check Which is he got because he's so big on television. Everything about it's insane. Everything about his career is interesting. Insane, but like for him to take seven years off from fully directing a movie again, when he had a lot of projects in between, some worked, some didn't,

where he was a major authorial voice, if not the dominant voice, when he's like, I'm back and I'm making the postman, I do think it sets in place a bunch of expectations of like, well, remember how good Dances with Wolves is. There's so much of this that's smart. Like just swing back. The idea, like this is a Western, but in a different mode.

It's everything about it should work and it doesn't. Let's, I'll crack open the dossier in a minute, but we'll introduce our guests. Hi, right walking today the postman. Okay, right Yes, that I said our guests today return to the show Emily st. James Hi of yellow jackets yellow jackets and like five billion other things this man wears a blue jacket. Yeah. Oh The most right yellow jackets the postman wears a blue jacket. I should work some, you know what? It's set, right now we're in 1997 in the past. They're in the Canadian wilderness. They have no knowledge of pop culture,

but they should just start talking about the Postman. It should just come to them fully for it. Lorelai Gilmore review, which I just put on letterbox. Did you see it? Postman, Tom Petty playing Tom Petty, that great big speech about once upon a time there was a thing called mail. It'll make you laugh, it'll make you cry,

it'll make you wanna mail something'll make you want to mail something. She's saying this to Rory as Rory's like running out the door or whatever, you know, it's what you must remember. Yes. That was just lodged in my brain. I have seen bits of this movie on cable over the years or whatever. I probably seen like a funny clip or two,

like in a sort of like, you know, famous flops, kind of like a sizzle reel. But most of all, I just think of Laura Lai saying, it'll make you want to mail something. Because you're like, well, it can't really be about like mail, right? Like it's not about like mailing letters as some sort of movement. It's like that's literally what it's about. Right. Because I like what America needs is mail.

This movie in several ways was different than what I had thought it was. But I had always thought it was, he has like the last bag of mail and he's Johnny Appleseed going across this broken country delivering the final letters. Which is not not wrong. It's part of the movie. Yeah. I didn't realize this movie is a liar and an actor. Mm-hmm.

Assumes this identity, then it becomes enough of a thing that he does have to do that, but then it becomes that he basically becomes this political figure ideal. Right, pretty quickly. Right, that starts a revolution, but also makes people love mail again. That it's new letters. And I like mail! Mail's good! Right, that starts a revolution, but also makes people love mail again. That it's new letters.

And I like mail. I do. Mail's good. I would say, in a way, it is quietly the most successful aspect of this film. Was watching it, I did truly go, I should write more letters. Like, Lorelai Kilmore, be damned. I was like, it does kind of make me want to mail something.

It is, the thing about this movie is that it has aged. Its messaging has aged very well in a way that the movie itself has not. And it's wild that the movie doesn't work because you're like culture is fucking caught up to this thing. What you were trying to do in a lot of ways and the execution is still so fucking sloppy.

In the, in the nineties, people like took the post office for granted. Yeah. Mallard Fillmore would make fun of it in the newspaper. Mallard Fillmore was like, that was his big grudge, was against the post office. And Mallard Fillmore won. Four cancel culture came from Mallard Fillmore. Turned him in two.

And now the post office is a shell of itself. Remember when Mallard Fillmore drew a, you know, dewy caricature of John Stewart, like with a giant nose, and then had to apologize? I just want to point out, the way you said that sentence made it sound like Mallard Fillmore, the character, also draws his own script. I understand that it's Bruce Tinsley is the author of... Do you remember what I'm talking about? Because the John Stewart book had like a fake Mallard Filmore

that ended with Mallard Filmore just like, it was like Mallard Filmore talking about high taxation at the end he just goes, oops, I forgot to make a joke. Which is very funny. Classic Mallard Filmore. Yeah, but yeah, he hated the fucking post office, Bruce Tinsley, cause like when you're a newspaper comic strip you had to deal with the post office a lot,

because you had to mail your strips. You do also have to write a whole ass comic strip every day. Exactly. And if yours is about a Republican duck, you do have to hit some topics over and over. I've talked about this with the Lockhorns as a child, but that was another one when I was three or four and I would make my dad read the funnies to me,

where I'd be like, this is inexplicable, this thing. And he'd be like, you have to understand. It's like this was like that character shares a name with a Nixon speechwriter. And I'd be like, why isn't the duck doing funny things? No, Mallard, Millard Fillmore, of course, was the 13th president of the United States, who was famously a racist. I wasn't saying I know, I know, I know. I was saying like

supporting characters because even he tried to set me and be like it's called Mallard Fillmore because Mallard's a name for a duck and Millard was a president and I'm like okay who's this guy and he's like oh god this guy is like every joke involves so much explaining and usually was not even funny if you knew the inside sorry. Mallard Fillmore. More on the mail in the 90s. And now we're in the 2020s where the post office has been gutted by Louis DeJoy. And, you know, you imagine him watching this movie and having like a Mr. Potter-esque reaction of like, fuck that guy.

And technology. Have Costner killed. Like beyond it getting gutted by our government, right? By like, tyrants. It also is like, well, we don't, we're just texting all day. We don't take the time to sit down and write long and, and the emotional intensity. Like the moment, the first moment in the movie where a letter is received by someone is maybe the most emotionally effective part of the movie where you're like, this is an idea.

And like this idea has some potency. You read the book and the book is so good on that point. It's so much like this guy finds this bag of mail and he finds just enough people who like read these letters and have emotional reactions. And he realizes like he's an actor in the book too. And he's just like, this is, this is such a powerful thing. And then the book immediately is like, this is a movement and it's important to have this movement and it's important to have society,

but it can't be just one guy. And this movie's like, it's kind of just one guy. It's kind of just the one guy. I mean, that's the Costner thing. It's also the thing that really caught up with this movie in that there is this weird balancing act with movie stars where people who become A-list beloved movie stars, which Costner for a decade was like,

if not the definitive guy was at the absolute top tier, like just an insane run that basically starts with untouchables. And this is the hard end of it. Yeah, it is right from this moment on. It's like, you're now kind of like a B list leading man. You still get to be above the title, you still get vehicles, but the movies are not treated the same way, with the same importance after this point. This is the last time where he's still presented as like, this man is one of the pillars of America. To be fair, obviously, Waterworld had blown a giant hole in his career.

And this is the, it's like, you can have one of those, not two. Right, exactly. This should have been his comeback. It needed to be his comeback. This is like R2-D2 fixed the X-Wing, like Mayday, Mayday, and he's like, okay. And then whatever, then the X-Wing crashed into the side of a hill. If he came off of Waterworld directing his first movie

in seven years and it was good, people would be like, you know what? You shut us up. I think especially if he's in a supporting part, like we've talked about. Like if he's in a supporting part. Like we've talked about it. Like if he's in this, if he gives himself over the movie and like lets someone else take the lead,

whoever that is, you know, even if the movie's not that good, I think, yeah. The postman. Before I crack open the dossier, I will, I do just like, Dances with Wilkes is 1990. It wins best picture and best director over Goodfellow and was made a lot of money.

In 1991, he was in Robin Hood and JFK. Robin Hood is a fairly risible movie, but it made a lot of money and had a hit song and was a big deal. It was a big cultural. JFK is also kind of a risible movie, but it also rocks and made a ton of money and got lots of Oscar nominations.

Are you saying Riz-able? It's got Riz. No, I'm saying Riz-able. It's got that unspoken Riz. J.F.K. is like just like it's a mountain of bullshit, but it rocks and it's great and it's like so much fun. And it was his sort of low level version of the Spielberg Schindler's List Jurassic Park year, right? Where it's like it wasn't breaking everything in the same way, but it's like he had the movie that was the presumed Oscar front runner for best picture, where he gives an excellent performance, working with one of the top directors in Hollywood at that moment.

And then he has like one of the bigger blockbusters. Yes, he's doing a terrible accent. Yes, everyone just remembers Alan Rickman from that movie. But still. It's like cool. You, 1990 to 1991, it's like this guy is magic. Yeah. Right. You can mock him all you want, but he's just like connecting. When my, when my baby was brand new,

my wife and I were like, let's watch a bunch of Costners. I don't know why we made this decision. America! Yeah. A better time. Right. Relax know why we made this decision. America! Yeah. A better time. Relaxing. Warm blanket. Comforting, yeah. We caught up on a lot we hadn't seen,

including Draft Day, which we had a great time with. Draft Day is a great movie to watch with your baby. Because you can kind of just dip in and out, and you're like, they're gonna figure it out. Yeah. But we got to Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, which we watched all of them, and we were like, eh, we're kind of done with this guy.

So yeah, he... He's really annoying in that movie. The thing about him is his magic period when he's at the top of the world is also when you start getting annoyed by him. This is the point I was trying to make. Kind of doing the same thing over and over. Well, this movie star thing,

this point I was trying to make is like, there's this weird balancing act of like, getting to that level of movie stardom requires some sense of familiarity with the audience, where they know you, they feel like they have some intimate relationship with you, and a sense of trust of, I'm buying a ticket for this guy's movie because I'm in on this guy. I'll follow him anywhere. I'll follow him from JFK to Robin Hood, right? The other part of it is there does have to remain some kind of unknowability.

There has to be something that the audience can't quite crack about a movie star, I think, for them to stay. Otherwise, if it's like, yeah, I get it, I know his thing, they get bored, and then they like bail out. And this is the movie where it feels like everyone codified. Have you noticed that Kevin

Costner keeps positioning himself in the same fucking way in all of these movies? And once it becomes like a meme in that way, where there's a. He doesn't like you're no way out. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You're bull Durham. Like he's got tin cup. And that's kind of the end of the way. All right. Let me keep going. That's where he needed to like pivot a little bit. I mean, let me keep.

I just want to I want to say this one thing, because this jumped out to me. I was on the trivia page for this movie on IMDb, and I think it mentioned that this is the third movie he had made at that point where he has an animal who's a best friend who tragically gets murdered in a way that incentivizes the rest of the film. And you're like, that's when you're fucked,

when the audience is like, do you notice he literally hits the same story beats? Not just that he makes himself a messianic figure or the stoic cowboy who solves everything, but it's like, and it's always that you know he's good because he has the animal and the animal dies and that manipulates us and all that shit. That's when you're just like,

it was same thing with like Will Smith in Seven Pounds, where it's like, why does Will Smith keep dying for our sins? What is this weird occupation he has? And then Will Smith has to go away for four years. After that 1991 in 1992, he makes the bodyguard. It is a gigantic smash hit. Yeah. I, uh, we rewatched that for my podcast and it's campy.

But it was like, I didn't have a good time watching it, but then talking about it, I was like, this movie's fun as hell to talk about. And like the songs are great. Songs are fun, it's campy, it's pretty stupid. It's a huge hit. In 1993, he makes A Perfect World with Clint Eastwood, which is not a smash hit, it did fine,

but is a lovely movie. And like one of his best performances. So even though it's a dip in sort of his box office power, it's not as much a movie being sold on Costner. No, cause it's Costner and Eastwood are the stars. Costner's playing kind of a bad boy. And it feels like Costner is like, you know what, I wanna like work with one of my inspirations.

It really reminds me of Bradley Cooper doing Nightmare Alley. Where I fucking, I think that's one of his best performances. I love him in that movie. Interesting. I know that I have a very minority take on that. Yeah. It's one of my favorite del Toros. And I think him doing that

just to sort of see how del Toro works. Costner working with Eastwood and Eastwood's best picture follow-up is such a smart career idea that even though the movie didn't do great. Yeah, also movie where it feels like he's letting go of his star persona and being like Clint, I'm an actor. Use me how you see fit. And it's one of his better performances because he's just like.

It's a coming to the material in a good way. He's giving himself over. OK, I'm actually forgetting, right? He have three flops because right Wyatt Earp is also a flop. That's his 1994 film that runs into Tombstone, which is short and fun. Wyatt Earp is long and not fun. Wyatt Earp supposed to be popcorn and

or rather, Tombstone supposed to be popcorn. Wyatt Earp supposed to be the big epic. And then Tombstone is like seen as more fun and also a better movie. Like it it beats it in all the sectors. Tombstone is a better movie. Like it beats it in all sectors. Is a better movie despite literally they fired the director,

like they had crazy shit happen on set, like blah, blah, blah. It's kind of trashy. Wyatt Earp is like Larry Kasdan passion project, Costner playing an American legend and no one remembers it, right? On paper, it should be the equivalent of like Affleck doing Gone Girl where it's like I know I should be making my fucking best picture follow-up, but like come on. This is on paper

Good material good director. I'll obviously be very involved But that so he's in the plane and the plane just got like hit by some flak. He'll be okay He'll be okay. He makes the war also in 1994, which I've never seen Yeah, what he's like a Vietnam vet who bonds with a kid. It's okay. It's the kind of movie where if either Wyatt Earp or Waterworld had been a smash, it would have been like, yeah, he did a little thing. He went and did a small movie.

And at this point... It's certainly not helping or hurting. I think no one's holding it against him, but also there may be questioning. Three years ago would his name alone have made that movie a hit if he wasn't coming off a little bit of a Cold chill in 19 sounds like mr. Freeze was involved. Wait a second frozen Empire Okay, it sounds like ice ghost from that movie whose name I've already forgotten

Yes, but I like to think of him as Ice Ghost. Makara. Okay. In 1995 he makes Waterworld. Now we will be covering that film on our Patreon in a couple weeks. We can get into it more then, but that film was quite expensive, not enjoyed by critics or audiences, and made little money. And had six months of the press being like, get ready for this fucking disaster where it landed basically as a prepackaged fiasco.

I think that movie has had like a bigger cultural footprint than a lot of minutes. So, yeah, I knew that. Waterworld is kind of liked now and has like the stunt show There are things about water world that still exists and it also was like It was certainly it performed under expectations Especially relative to it being the most expensive movie ever made at that point in time It did not perform as badly as people remember it performed or Or for a while, for a while, Pete Cox was looking at making a TV series of it. Cause they like did the research.

Very hard to get in on that. Yeah. They did the research on it and were like, people remember what this is. And the thing about it is, it is like Battlestar. Keep the development going great. Yeah, perfect. It is like.

People remember what it is. Do they remember if they like it? I have to go, I'm closing the door. It is like Battlestar Galactica. Yeah. Where the world has. The name is something. The world has caught up to it is. Do they remember if they like it? I have to go. I'm closing the door. It is like Battlestar Galactica. Yes. The name is something. The world has caught up to it now. Because climate change is front of mind. That movie is about climate change.

And you could see, you know, you could almost do a fucking Waterworld prequel that's just set right now that is like, I think we're about to live in a waterworld and that's all you need. And that movie was filmed at the last moment maybe when they would have just truly shot the entire thing on water. to live in a water world and that's all you need. And that movie was filmed at the last moment, maybe, when they would have just truly shot the entire thing on water,

which obviously made the production a nightmare and so expensive, and I think that's a lot of the movie's lasting values. You watch it and you're like, holy shit, this looks crazy. But today they would be like, we can film this in a tank with CGI. It makes it a lot easier to tell this type of story.

Probably true. Yeah. Number, and then after, right, after. That's a huge ding on him. It makes it a lot easier to tell this type of story. Probably true. Yeah. Number, and then after, right, after. That's a huge ding on him. They call it fish. Now he's in trouble. Now the, ah, mayday, mayday. In 96, he makes Tin Cup, which does just fine,

but that's a really well-remembered, like, cable fun movie that. That's a movie that like. He's reuniting with Ron Shelton, you know. That's a good quiet rebound Rebound for him to like just kind of steer the ship back up. I think it's one of his best performances Yeah, but it's like now he's at the moment. We're like, okay Tinkup has stopped you from totally

Hitting the ground right you're now in touch with air traffic control. Yes, you've stabilized an engine fire Maybe you're and then the postman is truly like, you got hit with a nuclear weapon. Right, and not only that, but it's like. There is no escape. He makes everyone think, was Dances with Wolves like a fluke or a mistake? Why are you going back to post-apocalyptic again?

After Waterworld so soon, it is a mistake probably. Right, yeah. I do think that the thing that happens to him is, so many things that happened to this movie are that Titanic comes out at the same time. It's the biggest movie in the world. But if Titanic had underperformed and had not become the biggest movie ever,

that movie had that Waterworld stink on it. Of course, that could have been another heaven's gate. So it would have distracted from The Postman. Instead, everyone was like, this is the biggest movie ever, Kevin Costner, what are you doing? Look, Titanic is a better film than The Postman. The Postman has way hotter sex in it though. Oh. Oh my god!

Anyway, um, The Postman is really bad sex in it. Just FYI, it's my joke that I'm making. In 1980. Dick's so good he starts snoring. In 1980. David Brin. Dick's so good he starts snoring, Ben. Ben's giving me a look Ben today slow thumbs up

That's the funniest moment in the movie is when you like have Olivia Williams dripping with sweat as if she has had the most ecstatic sex of her life and then the camera slowly tilts down and Costner is asleep and It's like this guy gives orgasms by accident. He's so feral. We'll talk about his sperm later. In 1980 David Brim at the age of 30 writes Sun Diver, his famous you know debut sci-fi novel. In 1982 publishes the first part of The Postman. 1984, he publishes The Cyclops, which is the second part.

And then he in 1985 publishes the complete novel with all three parts. He was said he wrote it as an answer to post-apocalyptic books and films that revel in the idea of civilization's fall. It's a story about how much we take for granted and how much we would miss little gracious things that connect us today. It is a story about how much we take for granted and how much we would miss little gracious things that connect us today. It is the part of the story that still feels. It is an idealistic book, right?

It's not like a miserable book. It's a, honestly, it's a beautiful book. It is very much like this guy accidentally stumbles into feeling human again, and then he spreads that to other people. It's tremendous, especially from like, what I like about Bryn is he's a hard sci-fi guy. His other series is about traveling through space

and he's done all the math, but it's also about like, humans have made dolphins our best friends. And like, it's... Right, it's a world uplift. It's like everyone who has ascended scientifically was uplifted by another civilization and humans are the first to have not done We accidentally did that and if we had not Accidentally uplifted ourselves. We would have been like adopted by a different alien species

And so they all kind of hate us because we uplifted dolphins and chimps and are working on dogs and it's kind of great But even decades later you're like we still don't really get many stories like this. Few people attempt the optimistic post-apocalyptic. The other one is station 11 and that adaptation has so much in common with this adaptation just because it's kind of like, well, this is the one lane. It's like, let's remember what makes us human in the midst of all this darkness. And that movie focuses on art and this movie focuses on, you know, good government and mail, letters, stamps, and this movie focuses on, you know, good government. And mail. Mail. Letters. Stamps.

Yeah. Races. And uniforms. Hats. Floppy ass. Floppy ass hats. Gumption. That's the thing.

What do you need to be a postman? Have gumption. Counters with a bunch of shelves behind them. Little boxes. I'll be with you in a minute. I'm sorting. Long, scales that are proprietary, unclear divisions of how many different lines they are, weird rules about sizes of envelopes, and weights.

Does size matter or weight? No one knows, not even the male people. I think this movie would have been better if Costner was like, we've solved all the problems with the post office, you just need to use my promo code at checkout and we'll... Click on the microphone. Oh my God, wait, yeah, we have to have stamps.

We have to get stamps off the bench. Come on. All right. Like, we have to. We have to. David? Yes. This episode. Is. You'll never guess who it's brought to you by.

Tell me. Pick one guess. Movie. Yep. Curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema around the globe. And here's another thing they're dedicated to. Semi-regularly bringing you episodes of our show. Sure, yes they are. They're a lovely and frequent sponsor of Blank Check.

And I want to tell you some of the stuff you can catch on the great streaming service Mubi. This is why we like Mubi ad reads, because we get to just tell you movies we like that are on the surface. Streaming on Mubi in the US starting on July 1st. Boyhood. Hey.

Heard of it? Richard Linklater's opus. Hard to argue with. Shot over nine years following a boy and his family. Is that how they made that movie I would have heard about by now? I think that movie was shot straight through with extensive prosthetics to age him and stilts. So if you're in a Linklater mood right now because of Hitman and such, go check out Boyhood on MUBI. Here's another one though. Yeah. Dami. This is a short film by Jan de Manj exploring what it means to be Arab, French,

or British, also tackling questions of vulnerability and family relationships. Now Jan de Manj, kind of a hot, you know, name in movies right now was possibly going to be making a Marvel movie. I was going to say, famously not directing Blade. Made 71, which is this very intense movie. White Boy Rick. And then White Boy Rick. So much enthusiasm right there. Dami has Riz Ahmed in it.

And Isabella Jani? Whoa. Hey. Damn, okay. That just sounds kinda cool. And I mean, it's available to stream and apparently it's visually inventive in Dreamlight. Okay. That sounds kind of cool. And I mean, it's available to stream and apparently it's visually inventive in Dreamlight. Okay.

So that's cool. Anyway, you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's mubi.com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free movie. Movie. This film comes out in 1985. Hollywood is immediately interested in adapting it.

So this is a long cooking project. Yeah. Steve Tisch and Wendy Finerman, who will eventually produce Forrest Gump, acquire the rights and put future Forrest Gump writer, Eric Roth on the script. Makes sense. Steve Tisch was on Truck Tank once and always brags that he's the only man to have both an Oscar and a Super Bowl ring.

And a golden raspberry. What's the Super Bowl ring? He owns some team. Good for him. Or did at some point in time. Yeah, it looks like he... the Giants. Yeah, New York Giants. So some people who were attached to this project over the years.

Barry Levinson, Richard Donner. Ron Howard. Yon DeBont. Interesting. Yeah. Actors. Tom Hanks. Michael Keaton.

Robin Williams. Huh! Close on Sunday. Yeah. To be clear, not laughing at myself, I'm laughing at the idea of Robin doing 10 minutes of male jokes. Yeah. But you can see how whatever energy that made him consider this project gets distributed

to Jacob the Ladder instead. Like that sort of version of- Jacob the Ladder. Yes. I'm sorry. Not Jacob the Ladder. He's not a ladder. Jacob has a ladder.

He is not a ladder. And the a ladder, he is not a ladder. And the good morning Vietnam thing of like, who's the guy who gives hope in the worst of times? Brin wrote a long interesting post about this on his website where he was like, until Costner came on board, they kept trying to make it like more Mad Max-y, more traditional post-apocalypse where everybody kind of hates each other

and wants to kill each other. And the story is that he went to see Field of Dreams. I keep saying these fucking titles, Ron. He went to see Field of Dreams with his wife and turned to her and said, that's the guy who should play the postman. Right, I will say Eric Roth says his version of this film was more satirical and ironic, which Brynn didn't really like.

He also says like, it was like a two hour Western, it was good guys versus bad guys, the good guys win. It was not overblown, but it was just a sort of traditional adventure action future film. Every guy you just mentioned, star and director alike, you can see the movie that they would make. 100%, especially Tom Hanks' Ron Howard, it's a very boring version of the movie possibly, but it's probably functional.

Right, like Levinson, Keaton makes sense. Like any, there are a bunch of pairings. I mean, I guess Robin Williams and Levinson would probably be the two or two. You know what? Costner directing Keaton starring. Like I said, just Keaton's at a point in his career where he kind of needs something like that.

That's like a dad tornado. I mean, just, holy shit. a point in his career where he kinda needs something like that. That's like a dad tornado. Yeah. It's just, holy shit. But you're latching on to the right thing, which is like, this guy needs to be more of a cat. I would agree. All right, so Warner Brothers eventually, like, the script seems dead,

then Warner Brothers hands it over to Kevin Costner. And Costner says, I like stories that raise the hairs on the back of your neck. I'm not at all afraid of those feelings. So he likes a non-cynical film. He's interested in a movie about, I'll quote him, we do want someone to take charge

and we'd like to think at the end of the day, we'd put on the uniform and we would fight for something. He is a deeply earnest artist. That is like the cornerstone of Costner is what I enjoy about a lot of his work. When it works and I enjoy about super power bits of this. And when it doesn't work, it makes him so mockable. Cause he's like stands up there and just treats everything. This used to mean something, you know, like everything in a Costner movie, whether we started directing or both has the energy, this used to mean something. You know, like everything in a Costner movie, whether we're starring, directing, or both,

has the energy of this used to mean something. He'll admit that he likes that it's a very humble guy who's nothing but a liar. He delivers mail and burns half of it just to stay alive. Like, he likes that there's that sort of foolish edge to it, scoundrel edge, whatever. He turns down Air Force One one a film that could have possibly Completely resurrected his career post-westworld

Like if he's in that movie the movie's the exact same and he's doing his bullshit It's still good like Ford's perfect in that movie But like not to be good that would be my note is that I think it's still not The Ford version of the movie would always be the most successful and most loved version of that film. That is the perfect version of that film. Costner would rebound if he were in that movie. It's a Ford and Costner have,

I don't want to say Ford has the exact same energy, but they have that similar blend of like, I live in California, but I also live on a ranch, which is like this weird intersection. I'm made of wood. You can, I was carved out of a tree, yeah. You can imagine exactly, like, this is a guy who could take the controls of a plane.

Nothing important ever actually does that in Air Force One, but nonetheless. It does in his life a lot. Yes, he does, and we should maybe stop. So, as you said, Bryn has said, when he saw Field of Dreams, he turned to his wife and was like, that guy, yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy makes the longest.

That's the interceptor. Brian Helgeland has just won an Academy Award, or no, he's about to win an Academy Award. LA Confidential the same year. Right, he wins an Academy Award this year. That's right. Highs and lows, but 97. And Kevin Costner is basically like,

this needs to be like a stirring tale of decency, heroism, and hope. They took some scenes from the novel, but they also thought up a whole lot of new ones on their own. Ken Saran in his review of this movie that ultimately comes out describes it, he says, it's such an earnest hodgepodge

that only by imagining Mad Max directed by Frank Capra can you even get an inkling of what it's such an earnest hodgepodge that only by imagining Mad Max directed by Frank Capra can you even get an inkling of what it's like. And you have to imagine that was Costner's pitch. Like can we put more Capra in this? That sounds good. On paper it should fucking work. But it's like the same thing with Derebont making the majestic or something

where you're just like, that can just fall on its face if you don't get it right or if you don't capture the mood. You will look so silly. Right. Okay. The production of this film was fine. It's not one of those things where you're like, oh my God, the writing was on the wall. Everyone had a good time making it.

Costner is proud of the movie. He thinks it should have even more of a fairy tale vibe. He's like, I made a mistake not literally starting with Once Upon a Time. He does interviews now where he says that's the one thing that doomed that movie. And I'm like, I don't think it's the one. No, it is. That's it. Right. It'd be so funny if he did a reedit and that's the only thing he's added. Yeah. Cause people still keep circling back to him and being like,

you ready to admit that you should have cut an hour out of that thing? And he's just like, no, I just needed one title card at the beginning saying this is a fantasy. Which I'm like, if you think, if your movie is not able to get the audience on board with what tone it is, putting one title card at the beginning is not gonna fix that. I love that everyone's like cut an hour and he's like,

I think it's 30 seconds too short. Yeah. Needs more text. Boy, all right, so, you know, Will Patton is cast as the villain. They'd worked together on No Way Out. Will Patton is a very reliable actor. Then and now, I would say. I love him.

He's good in the movie. You do feel like you need someone doing like a fucking Rickman sheriff and nodding him in this movie against Costner. He's understood. Right, there's similar energies. They are. doing like a fucking Rickman sheriff and nodding him in this movie against understated. Right. There's similar energies. They are.

Which if you're casting someone who's a little bigger, like 90s Billy Bob or Michael Keaton to play the postman, then you can have the guy be stoic. It's what makes you realize that Costner would play that part well. Yeah. That patent is kind of in Costner mode. Costner being the villain, but playing it as Costner is such an interesting idea, because it is like, you know, that's the kind of guy who corrupts people

into like doing the worst shit. And it would be seductive where you're like, does this guy have a point? Patton is in Horizon coming up. Yeah. Nice to see them working together again. Patton's also, Will Patton's just had a great recent career where he's like popping up in like Minnari and The Halloween movies. Janet Planet, the Halloween movies. Nice to see them working together again. Patton's also, Will Patton's just had a great recent career

where he's like popping up in like Minnuri and the Halloween movies. Janet Planet, the Halloween movies. Like, I love that dude. But to your point. He's the one who says, what are you doing with a gun in space and Armageddon, a line I love.

Great line. Really great question. There at this point have been like over seven years of entertainment journalists dining out on writing about how difficult Kevin Costner productions are. That like everyone was calling Dances with Wolves, Kevin's Gate, they're calling Waterworld Fishtar, Robin Hood had a lot of like fucking tug of war

power battle stories. Whoever came up with Fishtar should have gotten a bonus, whatever like guy of variety. They won the Pulitzer then. They really should. They won the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yeah. Fishtar. Fishtar should have gotten a bonus whatever like guy of variety They won the Nobel Prize for literature This fire, but I'm sick the two biggest like shorthand flops Kevin's gate right both of them to him. I mean and Robin Hood as well and you're like water rule was the only time they were wrong

There they have their knives out for him because the story is always, he's so stubborn, he sticks to his gun, is he a narcissist, is he an egomaniac, the thing's so long and out of control and like budget increasing, and then most of the time he's winning. This movie does not have that. People are worried about it, but none of the stories are like, and he's holding up production to do this.

No! Like, look, I like, and he's holding a production to do this. No. Like, look, I mean, should he have maybe cast bigger in the villain role? Sure. Like, fine. Olivia Williams, he casts her off in audition, it's her film debut. She's a British theater actress.

She's not bad in the movie. She's not. She's very pretty. She's incredibly pretty. She's stunning. Yeah. There's things about her character that don't make a lot of sense to me, but like, I'm not like, oh God, she's stinking She's stunning. Yeah. There's things about her character that don't make a lot of sense to me,

but I'm not like, oh God, she's stinking up the joint. But then the next two roles she does are the two iconic ones and her two masterpieces. Rushmore and what's the other one? Sixth Sense. Those are her first three films. Yeah. That is quite a jump out of the blocks.

That she lands in such a big flop, the kind of thing that tends to doom someone if it's like an introducing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. It's like, yeah, right. I love Olivia Williams. She's one of my faves, but I think what she plays best is somebody who's very warm, but has an agenda.

And you don't know what the agenda is. In this movie, she doesn't have any agenda. She's just pretty. It's also fascinating that her first three movies are all about her relationship to her dead husband. True. All three. She's incredible in the Ghost Rider. That's where I was like, she should sniff an Oscar nom here.

Maps to the Stars? Oh yeah, Maps to the Stars. She's great on television because television rewards someone who seems like their gears are turning. It also rewards an actress in her 40s. Exactly, yes. Whereas films treat them like disgusting lepers. But to your point, Emily, she's like an amazing close-up actress. And that's the thing that it feels like Costner's

identifying is like you can just cut to her silently reacting to something and her face is still, but you see her thinking and it's very effective storytelling. Now, another actor in this film, and you might not have recognized this, but he's playing himself, is Tom Petty, the musician. Now, Costner, I love this quote, says,

this movie deals with the nature of fame. You know what I mean? It's a very subtle thing. I think The Postman is actually kind of a funny movie when you watch it. There's humor wrapped all the way through it. And just dealing with a bit of the nature of fame and dealing with someone who's famous and him saying, no, you're famous. That's all I was trying to do.

I do like- I like the idea. I think there's, I think Costner could play the petty part too. That would be fun. That would be fun. Yeah. But as himself, that might be too insane.

It's also just weird that two and a half hours into this movie, Tom Petty appears and is like, hey man, you're pretty cool. And Costner's like, he doesn't say his name because he's basically like, you Tom Petty appears and is like hey, man, you're pretty cool and costars like he doesn't say his name He's like you top Did you watch this Ben, of course did the Tom Petty moment break your brain I loved it It's so I actually think it's kind of a cool Very different than the movie

he's been making up until that point. And over two hours in, it's like, hey, one of the weird vestiges of our old world. What I love thinking about. It was nice to just be re-engaged a little bit. Petty's kind of good. What I love thinking about is the world has ended, but it's not the kind of nuclear apocalypse

where the sky is scorched. We seem to basically just lived in a kind of like a rural feudal society. But like, yeah, like they don't really get into it. Our physical society has crumbled without there being any like health effects or like... Everyone seems to be... Well, there is the bad mumps. Gotta watch out for that. The explanation in Bryn's novel is there's a bunch of EMPs set off.

I heard of that, right? And then... And there's some bio weapons? And then there's a plague, and then there's a limited nuclear EMPs set off. I heard of it. And then there's a bio weapons. And then there's a plague. And then there's a limited nuclear exchange. And then this guy basically kicks off civil war too. Nathan Holm, who's also referenced in the film. The holiness.

Yeah. And so it's like his explanation is none of these would have been bad enough to wipe out humanity. All of them together knocked us back to feudalism. Right. But I like that. But the idea that among all that, then Tom Petty's like, hey, so I survived.

Like, I'm gonna have like a town and I'll be in charge of it. And I'd be like, I wanna live in Tom Petty's town. Like, sign me up. That sounds great. How did he end up in Oregon though? Cause he didn't live, so was he on tour and board? He was touring and that's when he went to Florida.

Right, yes. Okay, anyway, Petty says, I was kind of lost at the time. My band had stopped touring. I was living alone. I needed something to do with my time. So I took off and went into Washington state in the middle of the woods somewhere.

And Kevin taught me a lot of things about how to get this or that across on the camera. He's really grateful for being in the movie. Now, then Kevin Costner presents a three hour film called The Postman to Warner Brothers. And it's tests poorly with audiences. And so Warner Brothers is like, could you cut it? And Kevin Costner says, no.

Now we- And says, in fact, to me the length is perfect. Yes. I don't know how I could have made it shorter. I know, but Kevin does. I have some pishes, I have some ideas. Remove scenes, that's where I would start. Take them out of the film.

I would say, locate a big pair of scissors. Right. Grab the film print with two hands. Snip, snip, snip, snip. Hand the scissors to a different person and go make some choices. You could get 15 minutes out of this easy just by cutting down scenes

where there's lingering closeups on Kevin Costner. Like that scene where he rides down and the little boy's holding up the letter, which is like the famous thing everyone makes fun of. And then he like senses the letter and like turns around and comes back and grabs it and some of it's in slow-mo. You could get that down to 30 seconds and it's like three minutes.

I think you could cut 30 minutes out of this movie. Short movie, no story. Yes. But close-ups, lingering close-ups on many characters. Like there's 15 minutes of just him and like 15 minutes of a character who I was wildly unsurprised to find out was played by

his daughter, the girl ponytail, just has huge... I keep cutting to her because I love this person. Which is cute. She's not bad, but like, you know when you watch a movie and you're like, the level of energy coming out of this performance relative to how much the camera is doting on them, this is someone's mother, wife, or child. This is a low energy film, but The Dancers with Wolves is similar. And why that movie works is you kind of like being in the world with him, and it's gorgeous, and like, it's okay that it's not so fast moving.

This movie is about an apocalyptic society, and a war, and a man on horseback delivering men. It needs energy. It does. I need it to move. Thought experiment, right? Rather than just saying, I'll get over there soon with the letters and I'm just like, okay. All the guys we're talking about who maybe would make a better postman and even all the other guys that the studio had thought about at some point in time all have more of a comedy background. All play more comedic. Which especially for this kind of character who's like a liar and a faker, like any of

these movies where you have the Galaxy Quest type setup of like he's trying to bullshit his way through a situation he's not quite equipped for because there's a bit of a like assumed identity thing. I think Costner in this movie. In his default stoic state would be more interesting if the director behind the camera had more comedy energy as well, where you're like, there's a more gonzo version of this movie where you get like a Joe Dante, a Sam Raimi, a George Miller, right? And they're just going a lot pulpier with it.

And he's sort of the integrity at the center. And then that's kind of a nice counterbalance where he stops the movie from feeling ironic. But the double down is like deadly. A little deadly. Can I say though, I think we all agree we gotta keep as much of Billy the Donkey as possible. Yes, absolutely.

He's not in it enough. Yeah. Yeah. They kill him early. I was really sad to see him go. All right, Griffin, be quiet for a second while I speak. I, David Sims, am now speaking to tell you about, I don't know, I feel ripped off all the time when I'm online shopping.

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Let's discuss its plot. It's set in the year 2013. Now I understand why Kevin Costner probably realized that would be a bad year because Barack Obama had just been re-elected. This is the joke I had saved from last night was this of course is a period piece about the second Obama term. I think the book is set in 2013 as well and he, Brin updated it in 2020 and is like, now is like the depression of the late 2020s and then the riots of the early

2030s. And I'm like, great, thanks David Brin on target. Nailing it. I, I'm like, what else is happening in 2013 that we can make fun of? I'm trying to think like, what are, what are some cheap? Birdman wins best picture? That's later. That's that that's Argo year That's damn Argo wins in 20. No I mean 12 years in the year 2013 in the year 2013 Argo wins true. Just talking. Yeah

So that means also in the year 2013 Birdman comes out That's an apocalyptic. I think that's Birdman came in 2014. It wins in 15 correct. It's 1220. 13 is 12 years of slave. OK, Wolf of Wall Street gravity gravity gravity. Inside Lewin Davis, Francis, huh?

OK, let's focus on things that aren't movies. What are the other funny things that could be happening around the same time as this film? Just Googling 2013 in news. Edward Snowden. Yeah, NSA. Classified NSA leaks. Yeah.

Elon Musk is popular. Oh God, whoa. Yeah. Things are going bad. Bitcoin rises? Wait a second. Ben and I meet. Yeah. Hey. That's a big moment.

I probably met you too. Yeah, I think all three of us meet at that point. I would have done Getherd Oh, yeah. Podcast or something. I would have been around. Yeah. Oh, AV club. You're you're recapping for the AV club.

That's I'm I'm definitely just still doing that. Like, I'm not done with. I do think that this movie should have made jokes about that. About me recapping for the AV Club. Important story from 2013. Toronto Mayor Rob Ford seen on video smoking crack. It's a good memory. There you go.

I genuinely- Everyone reacted to that in a really chill way, which is what I liked about it. The fact that he died and then his brother also went into politics, who looks almost exactly like him, I had this like Mandela effect thing where I was like, I could have sworn the guy was dead and that his name was Rob.

I thought I was misremembering it's like no Doug's a new Ford. It does kind of feel like an Andy Kaufman bit. It's a legacy. Well, it looks like I was recapping Black Mirror's first season, Agents of Shield. Was that the following which made you finally leave? The following did not make me leave. Getting a full-time job with those benefits is what made me leave. No, listen, it was the following.

It was the following. Yeah. Okay, remember how that's about an Edgar Allen Poe murderer? People forget. Okay, so it's 2013. The world has ended, but looks pretty. They're like small societies that all are kind of like distant and closed off from each other.

They live in information silos. They don't know anything about the world at large. Or each other. No internet, but there is Shakespeare. One man Shakespeare shows being performed by an unnamed guy. A man with no name. Not one man. There's a donkey.

There's a damn donkey. There's a donkey. And there's some crowd work. Yeah. So it's a guy doing Shakespeare, but he's kind of doing Shakespeare in this way, like, what happens next? Like, you know, like, he's like, he knows a lot of it. Here's like the moment where I realized,

oh, fuck, this isn't going to work. I didn't know this was an aspect of the film that he's not really a postman. I had always thought it was like he is this mythical like man who never gave up his job and the whole movie is that he keeps on soldiering on. I didn't realize he like steals a uniform and creates a movement by accident. I also kept thinking in this movie he read the Constitution to someone, but that's Battlefield Earth, right? Right. Doesn't Battlefield Earth end with someone like reading the Constitution dramatically and then someone else cries or something? He reads like the postman's oath to Lorenz Tate.

No, I know he does that and that's fine. It's great. But in my head I was like he reads that to to will patent will patent cries Is that a thing not a thing that this movie? Let's you know if someone's good or like kind of shitty by if they dead name ford lincoln-mercury or not Very well set I want a different movie. What's the movie where someone reads the Constitution? I thought it was battlefield I think I think it is I Watched the trailer for this movie on the blu-ray disc before I watched the movie

Just come like I want to see how they sold this the trailer does not give up the actor aspect of it It sets it up like he's just this mythical totemic figure, right? Right. Okay, right Like there was a postman, right and there's the scene where he goes to the wall and it's whoever Daniel van Bergen like yelling At him and going like who are you and he goes like I'm the postman and he says it like that and I was like what the fuck is this line delivery in this movie that's like Costner playing the one man who can unify us why is he being like so off the cuff sort of lackadaisical about it and then I watched it I'm like oh the whole thing in this movie is that he's a bullshit artist I think costar kind of can't lie on screen. I

Think there is something about costners like default energy being this kind of earnestness that is very hard for him to play Guy who is lying without it seeming like he is just not giving a performance energy Right, like it doesn't feel like the character is being insincere. It feels like he is just not giving a performance energy. Right? Like it doesn't feel like the character is being insincere. It feels like he's not committing. In the book, not to keep doing in the book, but Bryn sets it up as it's the very first chapter that the postman in that book named Gordon

finds this postal truck. And he realizes it's from after war had broken out. And this post, post officer was trying to deliver mail to sort of hold what was left of America together. And he was caught by bandits and like deliberately drove his car off the road into a forest where it wouldn't be found until it was found. And then someone could like deliver the mail for him. So in the book, the Costner character is picking up

someone else's mission and is like, I'm gonna continue doing this. And in the film it's just like, well I guess I got some letters here. Right. It's in the book it's set up for... In the film it's actually confusing that the letters are even for someone. Right. Right. But you're saying that in the book it's more of a Green Lantern situation. In the book it's very much like, oh he has a he has a letter for the mayor of Bend. Well, the mayor of Bend's dead and then he discovers I have this personal correspondence. Some of those people are still alive and that gets like passed around.

It makes a lot more sense. But just this early chunk of the movie where you're watching him do the plays and like try to sneak off and everything. You're like, I should be having fun and he is not pulling off playing a rake like this is the kind of setup that is usually pretty fucking effective of like you start out the movie with a guy who's like a bit of a piece of shit but you can't deny he's charismatic and slowly he like earns a soul and Integrity and I'm like Costner's not having fun with this. And Silverado is him playing this kind of guy. And he said early in his career, early in his career, he's not the lead. No, he doesn't have to carry the story of the energy guy. Yeah.

But he always cites that as like, that was the thing that transformed my career. That was the thing that broke me. It made me electric. But then from that moment on, he basically jumps over to untouchables. And now he's the guy who's like, I have a responsibility to shepherd the story to the audience. kind of like unseemly dishonest. A thing that I think both Station Eleven and Mr. Burns in electric play, which play in similar world, figured out is that like, you need to have multiple people in this theater troupe. Yes.

Or if it's just like, I could, as much as I would, like it would be disastrous in a different way, the Robin Williams version of this works, where he's up on stage just doing bits from like the era of television and like the children in the audience are like what's what's what's happening you know just reciting shit the other movie I kept thinking about watching this was Edge of Tomorrow which pulls off the exact character arc this movie is trying to do and does it with a similarly totemic movie star of you started out and the guy is faking

the persona that we basically know that movie star for, then you completely dissect it, you take him as low as you possibly can, and then it is watching the guy you're used to be so steady panic really fucking fail and lose it for a long time. We're watching him gradually get back to the point where he does the thing you know he's good at, feels like such an accomplishment. And if Costner was out of his comfort zone for the first half of the movie,

and in the second half you're like, holy shit, he's become Costner again. It's the magic trick of taking something we all know is a given and removing it, and then making us excited to bring it back. Yeah, I think Shakespeare's also kind of a, I don't wanna say disastrous choice because it could work in the right hands,

but it's the wrong choice for Costner. I do think on screen standup comedy energy is kind of what you want from that guy. Absolutely, no, you want Williams, you want him like doing Mr. Burns, you want him being like. I love the idea, I mean, imagine, right, he just gets up there and does Shrek. I know that's off, but like that, right? Like that it's like the Mr. Burns thing of, right?

Like, you can't believe what survives... Yes! ...in our cultural memory. And he already does that with like universal soldiering shit. That I wanted to get to. I think Shrek 5 should be Cameron Diaz, Eddie Murphy, Mike Myers somehow survive the apocalypse, and then wandering the wasteland performing Shrek, but be Cameron Diaz, Eddie Murphy, Mike Myers somehow survived the apocalypse

and they're wandering the wasteland performing Shrek, but they don't really remember it. Do you want to be donkey one more time? But imagine that at the beginning of this movie, the thing he's performing for the children is like Rambo. Like Rain of Fire. Right. I love the idea of Shakespeare. I understand the romance of Shakespeare.

It's like, right, this is, it's almost like religious text where it's like hundreds of years old, the words are always remembered, blah, blah, blah. But then this movie's idea of Shakespeare is basically just someone doing like two lines from Henry the Fifth. Like, you know, like that's all it's got. Yeah, like, and it's Shakespeare in the book,

which makes sense because it's fun to read on the page. But like the hack that Station Eleven figures out is you can do the plays from Shakespeare as long as like the characters' lives parallel them and then they can like, their arcs can intersect with the plays. That's another insane thing in the sort of like trilogy of Dances with Wolves, The Mariner, and The Postman, all being very similar characters,

where you're like, they all have sort of assumed names, like titles that are bigger than their name, or in the case of Waterworld and Postman that are bigger than their name, or in the case of Waterworld and Postman, you never know their real name. John Dunbar, of course, being that he does eventually get the name. The biggest problem that I have watching this movie, which I just set aside, I just let it go. But it's sort of the Star Wars problem, where you're like in The Force Awakens, they're

like, ah, it was so long ago In years ago, you know where you're like wasn't that long. I'm like everyone's forgotten the Jedi I'm like they have that was like in the 90s like Now, you know ghosts were pretty big in the 80s There was a whole period in New York and none of us talk about it anymore Present day that we know the afterlife exists. This film's like, ah, the world has ended. Tom Petty is alive. Yeah.

And he's looks like Tom Petty. Yeah. Does anyone recognize him? Only one man brave enough to recognize. People remember, so like, it basically, it feels like Will Patton, Tom Petty, and Kevin Costner remember the past and everyone else has forgotten it or something. I think he does sort of do the smart thing of like, there's a lot of kids here. There's a lot of teens here. and Kevin Costner remember the past and everyone else has forgotten it or something.

I think he does sort of do the smart thing of like, there's a lot of kids here, there's a lot of teens here, there's, you know, Ford Lincoln Mercury, obviously born after all this and like, so he does have like these characters who don't remember things, but then yeah, he'll come to a town, it'll be like the sheriff character in Pineview is like, I don't like your kind

and I don't remember television at all. Not to jump at. Just like, wait, Tom Penny your kind and I don't remember television at all. Not to jump ahead. I'm just like, wait, I bet he's alive. Did this happen 10 years ago? Not to jump ahead though, but it does feel like Lorenz Tate's character should be younger as well. Like I'm watching him being like,

this guy should be like 14. The movie makes more sense when it's him interacting with children. I agree with you. He's like 23 when he makes this 22. The movie makes more sense when it's him interacting with children. I agree with you. He's like 23 when he makes this. He's got a mustache. Look, I think Lorenzi was born with a mustache, but yes, just like in The Force Awakens,

where Hansel is like, it's true, all of it. And I'm like, I'm sure everyone knows that, but you just have to let it go. I do think about how there are people in college right now who kind of remember the the Obama era like a little bit and I think like well, maybe I think like 20 somethings Flipping me at 20 somethings like remember less time than we think they do. Yeah Yeah, cuz the older you get you remember more times. You're like, well, everybody remembers everything I remember

But yeah, I mean my sister is 26 now and I'm sometimes astonished by the things that she just was like Well, I know I lived through that but I had no cognizance of what was happening. This is like another thing that like, Station Eleven does, which is like the main character lives through the apocalypse as like an eight-year-old girl and be like, you are like interrogating her memories and it's just like, she kind of forgot everything because it was so traumatic and she just like, she lost her parents, she lost everything and now she, lives among this theater troupe and that's her family. And that's like, you know, that's the quality you get

from that where she kind of remembers cell phones and then everyone, all the kids she meets are like, what's that? And she's like, yeah. Okay, so he's an actor. He tries to sneak away when Will Patton comes to town. Who's basically this movie's sheriff of Nottingham. All right, this is my...

General Bethlehem. This is my screenwriter fix for this movie's sheriff of Nottingham. All right, this is my... General Bethlehem. This is my screenwriter fix for this movie. The book literally starts with him finding the postman's office or the postman's truck and grabbing the mail and then going about and realizing his acting job isn't as stirring as giving people mail, which we all agree is true. We need postmen more than actors.

Yeah. But I think you start this movie with him finding the postal truck. You do like a bridged version of the second hour upfront. Then he gets taken by the, the wholeness and he's there and they try to break his spirit. They do the, uh, like a Ben her thing and he's suffering in captivity Meanwhile the post postman like thing is growing beyond and then he escapes and and yeah I don't know the the idea of the postman is not even seeded in this film until 45 minutes exactly Which I think is it which I think is a mistake as much as I enjoy the first 45 minutes. There's stuff in it

Yeah, I think it's kind of the best directed stuff in the movie. And it is like trying to set up this guy and who he is and it's, you know, the relationship he has with. And in the book, he doesn't have a relationship with the antagonist. It just becomes a thing. And I think in film, you do need to have

that relationship there, but it's, uh, it is trickier when you start with that, and then it's like, now I'm gonna introduce an entirely new premise. And you're just going to have this in the back of your brain. I think if they were intertwined, it would work a little better. I mean, truly until the moment when he finds the letters, I'm sitting there thinking, why isn't he talking about the fact that he used to be a postman?

Like I just threw cultural osmosis and the poster in the title and even just rewatching the trailer right before I'm like, but the point is that he was a postman in the old world, right? And it's not until he finds it that I go like that's the setup of your movie that he's taking it over But it's just not a thing until that point and there's basically an entire act I can't get it's like trying to grab water. It's just like where they're like, ah, no one remembers mail anymore. There's a post truck right there with mail in it

from people who are alive. The post office is perfectly intact. And they're like, ah, no, but mail's fucked, man. Like, there's no, I guess the idea is just the apocalypse happened so quickly and so brutally that sure, of course, then the US postage. postage would be gone like all other government, but people would have still written letters that didn't get anywhere. If they make it doesn't matter. I don't know why I'm even trying to figure it out. If they make the future date of this movie, 10 years later, it works 10% better.

Right. If in 1997, it's set in 2023. Another terrible year, to be clear. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little more believable. Maybe just having a year is a bad idea. I think that we have fun with it of like, Oh, Blade Runner set in like 97 or what? You know, like, you know, it's like, probably just a bad idea to do a year mistake. Right.

Yeah. Except for 2001, a space Odyssey, which sort of like like they kind of trademarked that year like good job by them Until for a camera. That's true Somebody that's that's the movie blush Like they're like I can't do it and then someone starts singing in the audience someone or somebody And then it's the guy from Smash Oh, wait, he's dead now. Well, it's the different guy from Smash. I brought the mood down. I'm so sorry. All right. So right. Pretty quickly. He gets picked up by General Bethlehem and his figure eight

scarred army of Holiness. And he's basically like, listen here in my world, everything's shit and I'm mean. And that's the rule of this society. And if I don't like you, I'll kill you. I like being bad. I like being in charge and right. A bad guy. Right.

It's kind of like bad guy zone. Right. I want everything to be bad and everyone to feel bad. He doesn't really have, I get that he's just a warlord, but he kind of lacks a. Philosophy beyond might is right, except that he wants to do bad painting. He sold copy machines. He did it true and then now he's become powerful.

He's like a a an angry little middle American who for whatever reason got to be in charge, but you want the feeling of your Rickman ask. This guy is enjoying it. for whatever reason got to be in charge. But you want the feeling of your Rickman ask, this guy is enjoying it, which patterns a little too stoic. I think he's honestly giving too thoughtful a performance. Yes, I agree.

He probably just needs to be mean and big and crazy. I was reading a big LA Times piece from when Prince of Thieves was coming out and everyone, I was going to say had their knives out, but really had their bows and arrows out at the movie. Because like Kevin Reynolds quit the movie like a month before it came out and to the press was just like, I can't fucking deal with Costner anymore, even though they would proceed to work together another two times. And that they, it was what Kevin Reynolds walked off over was that the studio was worried that Costner was disappearing in the movie.

And they wanted him to recut it with more lingering closeups and remove Rickman's material because Rickman was testing so much better than Costner. And they interviewed Rickman about this. And he in his sort of like infinite wisdom and compassion was like Costner is very good in this movie at doing what he needs to do if I were in his role I would not be fun you know he was like he's got a very different responsibility in this film he's got to carry the story weight he's got to be a romantic lead he's got to hold the center I get to just fucking camp it up

that's my job is to make this fun and silly. And you're like, that's the calculation that this movie isn't making. I also just hate the Robocop thing. Robocop obviously it's like directive three or, you know, he has a secret directive, we'll talk. You're like, okay. In this where he's like, rule one, I suck. Rule two, I mean. Rule three, fuck you. Rule four, blah, blah, In this where he's like, rule one, I suck.

Rule two, I mean. Rule three, fuck you. Rule four, blah, blah. And he's like, rule seven, anyone can challenge me at any time in a duel to the death. Anyone want to do it? Everyone's like, no. And he's like, great. I'm sure that won't come up again later. Rule eight, I'm the best. Like, you know. It is a thing I will say in defense of this movie This is another like character actor city movie. Yeah Right where you're like heaven costner first build Olivia Williams first movie Tom Petty gets the and But it's a lot of like George Weiner and Daniel Bargain found bargain all these people Although G. I'm your BC really went far from his usual thing here. You cannot give that man faked tea.

That is like such an irresponsible. It's the Ben Foster rule. Truly. It's the same thing. Don't let him put dirt on his face. The second they reveal Robisi, I'm like, who fucking signed off on this? It was the moment where you were letting Robisi run wild, like the late 90s.

But those like, even Robisi is like pretty early in his career. Sean Haddisey, Lorenz Tate was like You know one of the only people who really had some juice coming into this movie In that sort of way, I think what's his name? I always get his name wrong, but there's the guy who Costner fights in the wholeness troop Who's got a three-part name who's a really good Brian Anthony Wilson? Thank great actor does a lot of like cop shows and cool stuff. This is one of his first movies.

I was watching this thinking, if this were made tomorrow, every character with more than five lines would be played by someone with an Oscar nomination. And the analog project I was thinking of comparing this to, which I know you played in Cinematrix recently and it made me think about this. Please tell me.

Olympus Has Fallen is a movie where you're like, this is the most overqualified cast in the world and I'm not complaining about it but it's got like six Academy Award nominees in it and you're like isn't this putting character actors out of work. Angela Bassett, Ashley Judd, Melissa Lea, Dylan McDermott, Roda Mitchell like yeah it's true. A lot of big names in it. Lawrence O'Donnell. But like you have big people who show up for like 10 lines and you're like I guess if you can get Angela

Bassett why not get her but also there was there used to be an entire functioning economy of sort guys. I mean Daniel Van Bargain who had a very tragic end to his life but was an incredible. This is the moment where he's everywhere, right? Malcolm in the middle is right after this.

Come on, let's shout out from Bonbargain. Yes, sorry. Seinfeld, we've weirdly covered him like five or six times in different miniseries because he's in Silence of the Lambs. True. And in Philadelphia. He's got yeah, he's got a big Demi career. He's got he just Demi seems. Demi seems like they vibed. But it was interesting to see the different directors.

Basic Instinct, Sons of the Lambs, Philadelphia, Amistad, The Postman, and then Shaft. Singleton Shaft. But he's also in The Majestic. Do you think he's trying to tell Shaft what to do in that loop? Yeah. You know what Shaft. But he's also, he's in The Majestic. He's in No Brother Wortha. Do you think he tried to tell Shaft what to do in that movie? Yeah, you know what Shaft told him to do. And you know what Shaft told him to do in the later movie? Stop being such a whiny millennial ordering salad!

Or whatever he does in that movie. Yeah. I bet you shoot people through an app or whatever the fucking... That movie is so bad. It's astonishing. Yeah, and he was like one of the, you know, 90s TV was so good for these guys, would come in and do one or two episodes

and just be like, he's in an amazing X-Files, he's amazing in the X-Files, it's not a great episode. He's only in four episodes of Seinfeld, and you ask people and they would assume he was on three seasons. That's kind of like the Bryan Cranston thing too, right? Whereas if you played a guy who popped on Seinfeld, everyone was like, you're that guy from Seinfeld.

He's only in 15 episodes and three seasons of Malcolm in the Middle. I think of him as part of the regular cast. I know it's just the first couple of seasons, right? When the guys, it's so weird that that's a part of Malcolm in the Middle. Like, how is that, like, remember the oldest brother is in... I was gonna say, remind me. I don't... I watched the show, but I cannot recall.

The premise of the show, there's four brothers, right? Sure. You got the parents, right? And then it's like, the oldest brother is in military school for being naughty. And like, there's always a B-plot with him in the military school being like wacky that never links up with the show.

You know the answer to this. What is it? It's the other Masterson Danny's brother as they were worried about Having their main cast have three underage actors who couldn't work adult hours on a single camera That was gonna have like difficult shoots on a stylized show. I guess it's just weird that he's not with them Well, but they were like it's better if that right its own fucking unit because, because even the parents are always going to have to relate back to the kids. Get one adult actor who's off in his own space. You know, I know what you're saying practically. Do you think that's the answer, Emily?

I do. Like, I know that. Yeah, that sounds correct from what I've heard. And like, I do think like they continue doing that. Like, even after he leaves military school, he like goes somewhere else, goes to the oil fields and gets married. I remember the later versions of his story were boring. Like the military academy was good and Daniel Von Bargain was like a good, yeah.

Mostly because of Daniel Von Bargain, but like you're like, he was only in military academy for the first three seasons. Daniel Von Bargain is only in 15 of those episodes. The first three seasons of Malcolm in the Middle were 50 episodes, basically. Right, Malcolm in the Middle is one of those episodes, the first three seasons of Malcolm in the Middle were 50 episodes, basically. Right, Malcolm in the Middle is one of those shows that in its second season was so hot

that they had 25 episodes, which must have literally been illegal, like the way they treated those children on that show. But his impression was so big, you're like, yeah, every episode has a plot line where he's yelling at Masterson. That's like a great show, right? That's a great, it's really, it's aged.

Like if I throw that on today, I'd like it. It's aged absurdly well. It feels like one of the few shows that's interested in class in America. That's what I liked about it at the time. Right, it was actually about a real family that had economic problems, but not exaggerated ones. It kinda runs out of steam, but it ran seven seasons,

so of course it does. And what I like about it is it's like Frankie Muniz is smart enough to like escape this family But then he becomes a little asshole because he's like the one that can go off enjoying the upper class a little guy You do this a lot David's doing the face and he's nailing it George Weiner, who's the guy who plays fucking Colonel Sanders in Spaceballs? who's the guy who plays fucking Colonel Sanders in Spaceballs, who's like a very recognizable comedy character actor, was like a vet sitcom guest star in the 70s.

In this movie, he's like bald and he's got like facial scruff and a big nose. And you just look at him, you're like, I've seen this guy in like a million sitcoms. This guy. You know that guy. He's a guy. And he's one of the guys in one of the towns. Yeah, sure. Yeah's a guy. Yeah. And he's one of the guys in one of the towns. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, everyone in the towns, I'm not going to say they're good, but they're doing their job.

Peggy Lipton? Yeah, Peggy Lipton. Who's the guy with this? He got his tongue cut off. He's like the sidekick to the general. I know who you're talking. Is that Scott Baristo? I think so.

Or Sean Hatsoy? Who also, his life went in bad directions. Who did it? Scott Baristow, yeah. Oh dear. Yeah. I'm not enjoying this one. No good, very bad, don't do it.

Yeah, I think that is him. Right, yeah, I think that's Scott Baristow. Luke, the one who's, Scott Baristow is the one who's gonna shoot the postman at a certain point, and Costner's like, you're not gonna do that, see you later. And then he comes're not gonna do that. See you later And then he like comes over to the other side shoot a letter. I Bet you wouldn't run a puller through a stamp, but I mean like even like I got David

You too, it's the thing I like most about it and it's when the movie works for me. It takes too long for the movie to get to the bail if anything. I was watching this and being like, I bet David has like post office feelings. Okay, actually can I speak on this for a second? Please. I think I may have said this before,

but in the first grade, my first grade teacher, Stare Pearson, shout out, a great teacher, we did this thing where our class was a post office in the school for a whole week. We made stamps. So it was like Arts and Craftsy. And we had envelopes.

And you could come to our classroom, if you were any other kid in the school, and write a letter. And we would give you a stamp for one cent and an envelope for two cents. My elementary school did the exact same thing. It's such a good idea. It's a great idea. And then we had people all had roles. Like you make the stamps, you sell the letter.

And there were kids who were mail carriers and they would take the letter anywhere in the school. And this was like allowed. At my school. So I could go into any other room and be like, I have a letter for this person. And I was allowed to deliver it to them. We voted on what to name our mail service or like what the mascot would be. And I think we had just read Dr.

Doolittle as a class. It was the push me, pull you mail. Okay. Which I will never forget was just very bizarre of like another pass, but sure. But it's like, imagine telling that to a bunch of six year olds who had just learned there's an animal with no button two heads and they were like, push me, pull you. And like, I remember it so, so vividly and fondly.

And so, yes, and it was like this, where it was just like, it's fun to write letters and send mail, but not in that boring way where you go to the office and it's your taxes, in the fun way. My grandma would write me a letter almost like every other week throughout my childhood. Because she was like, you know, from an era when you did that.

There's even now, my dad collected all these letters between her and my grandfather when he was in World War II. That's just like amazing. It's just incredible that that was how people corresponded with one another at one time. My grandmother was a huge letter writer and I have too few of her letters to me and I wish I'd kept more of them, but like her kids are all trying to sort of keep this alive.

And it's like, it is this thing where I'm always like, I should really write more letters. We all should. We all should. Instead we're sending TikToks. But the thing is, when they took China, when they were doing those letters, they were casual. They were like, what's up?

Yeah, yeah. I did this day. I had I ate roast beef today. Anyway. Let me know how you're doing. Like, they weren't prolific, you know, cost. You're grabbing this letter in slow motion on his own. His grandma needs to know. It was a thing in my life that very quickly became very annoying, but for like a period of time

felt like it gave me some Costner-esque sense of purpose and focus and discipline. But very early in the pandemic, my whole family moved out of New York other than me. Yes. Very, like suddenly. Yeah, they moved to, right. And then started to scatter,

and everyone in the family's mail got sent to me because people didn't have permanent addresses. Everyone made mail forwarding my apartment because they were like, well, you're staying put, right? And I would have to like once a week, aggregate all the family mail and send it to everyone else in Manila envelopes. But I did kind of like the ritual of going to the fucking post office once a week.

And partly it was because my life was hell. You needed things to do, sure. But I would like, I'd walk through with gloves and mask on and I'd feel like fucking the cause. Did you inspire a movement? I did. Did you pull America back together again? I did. Yeah. You did a great job. You remember, it feel like fucking the cause. Did you inspire movement? I did.

Did you pull America back together again? I did. Yeah. You did a great job. You remember it was all over the news. And then Louis DeJoy said, we're shutting him down. This kid is giving people too much hope.

Mail and junk mail to his dad. Okay, so in the postman after he's with Will Pan for a while, it's sort of a weird story choice to start with this, but I guess it makes sense. It's Emily's point. It's sort of a weird story choice to start with this, but I guess it makes sense. It's Emily's point. It's kind of a bad structural choice. I do like the scene of them watching Universal Soldier and being like, no, and then he's like, fine.

And they put on the sound of music and they're just like playing it on rocks. Yeah. Like they're just projecting it onto like, you know, it's so cool. Bad structural choice, but it is interesting that it very much is out of, and you name check this already,

like the Spartacus playbook. It's the gladiator playbook, right? It's like these sort of slavery epics are what they're kind of ripping on. This is when I'm like, the movie, this movie might be kind of good. Like, this is interesting. I do feel like if my two options

were Sound of Music and Universal Soldier, I'd want to watch Universal Soldier like once every few days, you know? Back to back, man. But also, like, if you live in this world. Right. Maybe it's a little too close to home. Yeah, I couldn't find any corroboration of this, but rumors abound on the Internet that people on set during the production of this movie

would jokingly refer to it as dirt world. And Costner would fire anyone he heard saying that because he was just dirt. This is nothing like water. Like their joke was he's doing opposite water world. Yeah. Dirt world is a good name in and of itself. Kind of is the moves you would make if you were handed to back to back $200 million checks where you'd be like, first one's going to be wet.

The next one? Dry, baby. Hi! Let me just say this, I would love to host a screening in a quarry. I don't know how to make that happen. You better get some comfortable seats, because this movie is short,

and I'm not sitting on rocks. No, not this movie, any other movie. You've been advocating for an underwater film exhibition. You have, yes. It was just one of my ideas, Emily, of how to advance cinema. Okay. Keep people going.

Right, you know, you didn't have answers on how people would hear the movie or survive watching it. I did, I said it would be broadcast into their helmets, their tank. It would be great if you invented like the bubble city that we've seen in sci-fi, like under ocean and you're just like what's down there? People live down there like no, it's an Alamo draft house You want some chicken wings?

The pizza's okay It's frozen, but you know pretty decent frozen, but rock theater must have excited you. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah rock theater. It didn't excite everyone here. No, I was into it. I was like, this is kind of humorous Yeah, and like this. It didn't excite everyone here. I was into it. I was like this is kind of humorous Yeah, and like this is fun dystopian stuff. I like this then he escapes and sleeps in a postal truck and discovers a bag of mail then moves on to another settlement pine view and

Basically bullshit says Wayne by being like I'm a postman and I have letters for people. He does it with the amount of commitment you just did it with. The moment- That's true. You've set this guy up to be an actor, this kind of attention whore, right? Who just loves everyone looking at him and him having fun and fucking-

He's not being goofy or slick enough, you're right. And he's also not selling it hard enough where this should be a moment where the story clicks and you're like, this actor who lives in a world where theater basically no longer exists has now landed upon the greatest role of his life, which is playing hero. The like the like the Robin Williams or Michael Keaton in that role is like that scene is like it escalates and like the guy's going to pull a gun on him, he's gonna shoot him, and he just, he stops doing jokes and just frantically grabs letters,

and he's like, I got one for Peggy, I got one, and that. I just kept thinking about Tim Allen in Galaxy Quest, who nails this so fucking hard, of like, you're watching him be sort of like a washed-up idiot. And then when he gets on the ship and they take him seriously, he's like, I'm back to being serious. I'm like fucking savoring the fact that people look at me as some sort of like heroic figure. Now, Daniel Van Vargen is playing a guy who basically is like,

I'm here to shoot like people on site if they try to come in, but really if he says male, I don't want to hope. I don't want to hope, I don't want to hope. But the one thing I kind of would love there to be is a postman. But he also, for like- He's like, are you really a postman? Like, don't fuck me around.

It's like a guy who's been on too many bad dates or something. For like a five or 10 minutes- You're not lying to me, right? For five or 10 minutes, he's treating him like Woody treats Buzz Lightyear, where he's like, guys, he's not a real space ranger. Right. He keeps saying it to everyone where he's like, he's not a mailman.

There's no mail. Yeah, exactly. And everyone else is like, but we believe in him. And then right at the mo- like 10 minutes in he's like, you know what, I actually believe in you more than anyone else. He turns so fast. Back back before, back before the apocalypse, he had the complete T tops card set of all the mailmen in the great I had all of them memorize. It's like you're not one of them series. Yeah, Rin Tin Tin Yeah, okay, but he's like fuck you fuck you no one fall for his bullshit I have a letter for you if you want it, please take it Please costner starts to ride out of town and he's like, let me just ask you one last time

Are you a real man man and Costner shrugs and he's like, let me just ask you one last time, are you a real man, man? And Costner shrugs and he's like, good enough for me. God damn it. Single tear rolls down his cheeks. You're the best man I ever met. Also in this town, he meets a teenager named Ford Lincoln Mercury, who's like, I love your vibe. Can I be a postman too? Costner's like, huh?

And he's like, I'll take that as a start a giant system of postman, cool. But much like the Rock Theater, you're like, I'll take that as a start a giant system of postman. Cool. But much like the rock theater, you're like this kind of fun post-apocalyptic stuff. Like, what do we make of the remnants of our old society? Now, he also meets a couple who basically are like, saw you across the bar and liked your sperm vibe. They basically like, hi, how you doing here? You're a mailman. How's the sperm? Couldn't help but notice your balls are huge. You think you could fire six rounds into me right now? Cause my husband, nice guy, the mumps took his sperm and we need sperm now.

They'll just be the body father. They set it up like her husband is just this sort of like nice sort of cop Yeah, sure. Yeah, he is played by Charles Esten who is one of my favorite like TV bit actors But I know him by a different name of chip when he was one of the main guys on whose line is it? Anyway, I was like, why is this guy look so familiar? He was the white guy who would do the songs along with Wayne Brady familiar, he was the white guy who would do the songs along with Wayne Brady. Where if Chip and Wayne were on the same episode, you were like, fuck, they're gonna do a lot of musical games this one.

The lane that he found on television was he either is like, hey, you wanna sleep with my wife? Or he's like, you're someone else's wife and I wanna sleep with you. Those are the two guys he plays. And you're just like, oh, this movie, it's like he's sort of like the well intentioned, but sad sack, like boyish guy who can't impregnate his wife. And he's going to die tragically as a sacrifice. And she's going to like have such a hard time processing his death that it will take her the entire movie

to fully fall in love with Kevin Costner. Instead to jump ahead, the moment he dies, she's like, I just remembered that he's a piece of shit. Suddenly, I just remembered that he was an abusive monster. the Lorenz Tate character and the Chip Esten character into one guy. And he's married to Abby and also like helping start up the post office and then he's like a very, and like I think this movie's better if Abby and the postman never become a thing. They just kind of quietly long.

There is a- Not to spoil, but he impregnates her with his, you know, mega seed, his male seed. They go like, what do you mind? He puts a bunch of stamps on that cum is all I'm saying. What do you mind being my body father? Right, and she's like he's like this is too much for me. He goes to sleep in his tent He is like man. I can't believe I sold everyone this postman bullshit She shows up and she's like circling back on my offer and he's like, you know what? Let's fuck right?

They let's fuck I'll put five percent of my like effort into it, right? He starts going like full costner romance on her and she's she's like don't compliment me Right don't kiss me get it in there close my eyes and then he's like cool. Honk. Shoo honk shoo She rides on like a mechanical ball And walks away this like yeah, I'm feeling really pregnant It's one of those movies that just feels like immediately. I am like, rewinding being like, I must have missed something.

I'm sure this is when audiences are like, can the knob go lower? Like, I've lost interest in this film. You read reviews from the time and a lot of people are like, this movie is somehow three hours interminable and it feels like there are long sections missing it makes weird jumps where you're like I'm sorry you spent 20 minutes on that but you're also gonna jump straight from this point to that point. So it's like Costars being like

look I'm playing he's an ordinary guy he resurrects earth through mail also people beg him for his cum where you're like, can you maybe take an ego pill, buddy? Like, I swear to God. Chip Esten on his knees. Buddy, I'm begging you to give my wife some of your cum. Fuck my wife! Well, I kept thinking of that song, Please Mr. Postman, Will You Cuck My Wife? So, okay, General Bethlehem gets word that, yes,

there's a rabble-rousing postman going around and is like, Scottish. Scorched. It's left and right. Let's go to every town and be like, do you like mail? Oh, I think it's okay. Decapitate this man!

But at this point, he has sold. This is an R-rated film, to be clear. He has sold this town on the idea of postmanning so hard that they're like, well, we have letters for you. Can you go deliver them? So now he's like wandering like traveler man with no name. Town to town. Right.

I'm going off. Smell you later. I love how they keep asking him what he's going to do next and he's like, uh, over there. Go that way? I gotta go. he's gonna do next and he's like, uh, over there. Go that way? I gotta go. It's astonishing how bad this character is at Lion. It literally is like, he's like looking around

then there's a sign that says West and he goes West? Yeah. This guy can't fucking sell the thing. God, but people are so bored in this shitty world, right? Anyway, that they're just like, I don't know, I guess I'll put all my eggs in the mailman. And also he'll put all his cum in my eggs.

That was good. I knew this would be a good episode. I just knew when I was watching this movie. This is not K-19 The Widowmaker. This is gonna be a good episode. What were you gonna say, Emily? Symbolically speaking, like, The Post Office

is a great choice for this movie. It is, of course. It's so cool. So is his cunt. Yeah. Well. Go on, Emily, applaud. They should have cut to a little shot of his sperm with little male carrier hats on.

They should have done the spike leaf! Oh, with carrier hats on! He delivers! Not rain nor sleet! His face superimposed She Hate Me style, wearing the little hat on each spermazoa. Or looking like Mr. Zip or whatever the post mascot was. Yeah, this movie should have more Mr. Zip in it. They should have done the Look Who's Talking thing where like her unborn child has Bruce Willis' voice just occasionally offering commentary. I was thinking watching this that Bruce would also do this better.

Yeah, he'd do this better. Again, it kind of needs to be a different movie, but yes. Yes. Okay, so Bethlehem basically goes on a reign of terror. He kills Olivia Williams' cuck husband. Right, well. Sorry for calling him a cuck. He literally participates in this, it's a fine. Will Patton is like, man, I'd love to put my cum

in that woman, and he's like, hey, pal, that's my wife. Only men I give permission to get to cum inside of her. And Will Patton's like, well like well in that case you're fucking dead Murder Sam, you know how famously there's a lot of like couples on dating apps Who are looking for a bisexual woman to come and like sleep with both of them? I think that my wife and I should get on a dating app and be like we're just looking for a body father We're looking for a body body father preferably us postal

Bodyfather is such a good if not If not, at least pretend to be, and please do an okay job pretending to be a postman, okay? Don't just be like, yes, stamps, oh, envelopes, mail goes in those. I agree with you that the movie as it exists, he and Olivia Williams should never actually fall in love. But there is an interesting idea on paper to a setup like this,

where basically at the beginning of their relationship they sleep together and she gets pregnant and then the movie is them not actually falling in love until two hours later like the reverse. I understand that in this movie they fall in love. Do they fall in love? No. Barely single like each other. No. The middle of the movie is after this. You're so beautiful. Right after this like you know you know, Bethlehem's scorched earth campaign happens, like the postman. By the way, we never know his name.

He is the postman. Yeah. And Abby escaped to a cabin and kind of chill there for the winter. And now we need this time jump so that when he returns to like the world, yes, post services are just back up and better than ever. She's somehow proficient in using an assault rifle. Everything.

Immediately. She's good at everything. Yeah. It's clearly, he could, you know, Costner clearly is like, this is the next like Mary McDonald thing. Like I need this kind of like sort of this lady who will seem like outdoorsy and flinty and like cool.

And she's fine at all that, but you're kind of like, what is this? Like, you know, once again He's replicating about his beats like it's like god the fucking costner movie has basically become Its own set of storytelling tropes Yeah What's weird about this is that the brin book ends with a scene where the way they overcome the warlord is they band together with? Uh the umpquaqua, an indigenous tribe

that's native to that area. But also like, they're like, well, you are the white man who needs to lead us into battle. Like we're so glad you're here. Thank you so much. They do the dances with wolves. And, and Kostner like is just, I don't know if he never read the book or whatever, but I'm like, that would have been a disastrous choice to do that again. But yeah, it's, it's in the book, which is weird. And for how much he's replaying in other areas, his same moves over and over again.

Yeah, I think he's leaning on his moves a little too much, even though Costner will be the one telling you like, no, I feel like I made like a funnier kind of odder film. And like, yes, you did. Yeah, by comparison. Like, Dixie Wolves is much more serious. Yes. No question about that, but like, oh, the Dixie Wolves is much more serious. No question about that.

But like, oh, the Dizze Wolves has a little humor in it. But did not go far enough in either direction. Right, like, right, exactly. But it's still just, it has too much of your set dressing on it. Right, yeah. Anyway, so they hang out for a while, they fall in love or they don't, I don't even care. But the point is when he gets back, there's like a girl on a horse and he's like, who are you? And she's like, fucking US postal office.

Ugh. Yeah. Like everyone loves mail now. Right, that's played by his daughter. The character's name is Ponytail. I do love that he's made up a government based in the Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome in Minneapolis. One of those things again though,

he's just like, the Vikings used to play there and I'm like, okay. So they both know the Minnesota Vikings. So the NFL existed within the last 20 years. Like, what happened here, buddy? It feels like it needs to be less than five characters who are over the age of 40 in this entire movie. I do, is that his best improv though?

That Will Patton's like, I saw the White House burn. Which also insane that he says that. And like well smart ass it's in the Metro dome now okay like it's just like he's just clearly thinking of like a place that's big that another one of his very convincing lies is that the current president is Richard Starkey of course the real name of Ringo Starr. And then he says that his catchphrase is things. Peace and love, peace and love. But he like, he misquotes it, right? He rewords it.

It's like, all you need is mail. He says like, it's getting better very often. Like something like that, they repeat it back to him. Things are getting better every day. Yes. Right, right, it's every day instead of all the time. Yeah. So yeah. So now postal service is happening everywhere.

Like Bethlehem's men capture a postman from California. This movie is set in Utah. I don't think we said that. So like that's how far it's gone. And suddenly there's like a whole operation. But then the postman realizes that these young postmen are being terrorized by Bethlehem's men. So he's like, I'll do it all myself. Give me that mail. I'll be back in a minute. You know, right? Like that's he's being heroic and self-sacrificing.

Yeah. And it's your classic, like this idea is dangerous. I need to snuff it out. We cannot let people believe in some things. Refusing the call more than two hours into a movie. I need to go home Kevin He's like, maybe we shouldn't be postman. I'm like, I'm pretty sure the cat's out of the bag Also, you're watching this at home and you're like, I don't know. I need to go into a different room or What's so fucking weird is I when he does that? I like looked at the running time is like there's only 40 minutes left Like it's like then the last 45 minutes of this movie are just absurdly compressed.

This movie is horribly structured. It is horribly hard. It doesn't make any sense how this has developed. No, the division of time across different story elements is wrong in almost every area. Like I'm trying to, like what, so what else happens? Nothing, I mean, then there's a big battle they go to Tom Petty. Oh Tom Petty. That's the thing I'm forgetting right or

Lorenz Tate has formalized the entire idea of what he is He has become a nationwide folk hero, but it's also the idea of like these tribes are talking to each other now They're sort of just like, people are no longer in the dark. It means that someone like Will Patton is losing his power. And then people are like, well, I heard the postman's 50 feet tall and breathes fire or whatever, whenever he goes to a new town.

Making Bill Braske jokes about the postman. Right. And whatever, they go to see Tom Petty. You're famous, right? You're famous, man. I saw Tin Cup. I thought it was pretty good. That one was called David Sims.

Spelled differently, two M's. Spelled differently, two M's, which is more common. I bet the film critic with that name gets that a lot. Even from people who email him, and his email says his name, and it has one M in it. I thought it was more of a TV critic. Doesn't he do recaps in this year? No, that was a long time ago, man.

It's 2013! Oh, it's a good point. Does he get the award for the most clueless reviewer from the commenters every year or is it just named after him? How many I's do you put in Sims? Making you do Seinfeld was truly... It was life-changing.

Yeah. And then you did Gilmore Girls? No. I really, I may have talked about it before, but I was fighting to do Gilmore Girls for years. I also did The Simpsons for a while, which is like a rolling... You've talked about it. ...classics that we had going.

I jumped on for a season or two. Was there any other classics that I did? I think it was just Sim Seinfeld and Gilmore. Then I'm like, please. I truly had to sell them on Gilmore Girls. Like, where they were like, I don't know if our audience cares enough about that. Which is so crazy to think about now.

Like, now Gilmore Girls is like this totemic rewatch show. And it was huge. It was huge for us traffic wise. And I feel like it was a lot of people who were like, why don't you just say this is good? And like you were saying this is good. Yes, I am rude about the second season finale of Gilmore Girls, and I remember them being really, really mad at me. But I do think season two of Gilmore Girls is overrated, but Gilmore Girls is still one of the 10 best TV shows of all time.

Folks, I'm a big three and four guy. Weird blank check news, and this will timestamp this episode very directly. Park Chan Wook to remake Oldboy in English language for television. I saw that. As series. I'm out on it. No. I mean, I just don't think it's necessary.

I also don't think it'll happen. Yeah. Like a lot of these things get announced like that fucking Parasite show. Yes. And I'm like, this is never gonna happen. This is a meeting. It's just weird that he's doing it himself in theory. I wanna timestamp this even more.

I just gotta ask David, Bluey finale thoughts. Okay, so I don't think it's... It's the season finale. It's the season finale. Well, actually there is another episode called Surprise for The Sign, which we'll post next week. How appropriate. Indeed. I believe they split up these three episodes because, you know, the episode before the sign, which is called Ghost Basket, which my daughter is obsessed with, loves when finger goes in the ghost basket, ends with the reveal of the house for sale sign.

And I guess they didn't want to reveal that. And then this, I assume assume deals with the aftermath of them not selling the house. Spoiler alert for Bluey, they don't sell the house. I thought it was beautiful. Are you serious? What do you mean? People are really intense about Bluey. Not you. Like I said, people out there are crazy about Bluey. I think if Ben watched Bluey... To be clear, I am too. If Ben watched Bluey, he would become like the most intense about it.

Yeah. I mean, you're gonna eventually watch Bluey and you're gonna dig it like everyone will eventually watch Bluey Uh, I thought dog being a good dad, right? It's a show not to reduce it, but that's something that is gonna hit That's an aspect of blue. He's I was blue He's a show about imaginative play like that is what blue is about like 90% of bluey is about a game that's being played with this family, right? Like the kids play a game and the parents get involved

and sometimes other people get involved. Right, like pretend I'm a postman. I mean, honestly, like- I think they did that. I think they definitely have like a male, anyway. The sign is obviously them. The thing with Bluey to me is like season three, and I don't know if you agree with me,

is so ambitious in its story. Yes, it's wonderful. Not just the sign, which is this extra big, long episode they did, but just the way they like the episode that where they roll the credits three minutes in and because the teacher's like, well, I guess you haven't learned a lesson. Like, and then they start rolling the credits and then the kids like, well, I don't know. And then they undo the things like that. The episode that ends with Bluey being drawn

in the episode where it's about Bluey learning control. Like, shit, like, where you're just like, they are really going for stuff here. And if they want to never do Bluey again, that's not gonna happen because it makes a billion bucks, but they can walk off, and I assume some sort of zombie Bluey can exist. But I'm like, do more.

You're only doing more interesting things. I genuinely think they got it. They should add some young kid characters and just keep Bluey and Bingo growing up. I think that the neighborhood should become more of a character. But season three is trending in that direction. I have heard you talk about Bluey with so many guests and they're like, I don't watch that. And I wanted to give you a chance. Bluey's so good. I mean, I could talk about the problem with Bluey is that I could talk too much. I do keep telling people it's the best written show on TV. I genuinely think that. it's the best written show on TV.

I genuinely think that it's Griff. You should check it out. It's so good. The thing with Bluey is that I've seen it so much that it's kind of sick. It's like drugs. Sure. Where it's like, there's nothing wrong with me watching this much Bluey, but like it's a little crazy how much I've seen Bluey. Like I've seen certain episodes just dozens and dozens of times. Like Emily Ishida was staying with us when, you know, she was on this podcast and she stayed with me for a week. And she watched a bunch of Bluey with us, because if you're going to be in my house these days, you're going to watch some Bluey.

And like, we're watching Stickbird, great episode. And like, there's this line delivery where Bingo's like mad at some kids. And she's like, why'd they do that? They're mean. And the dad's like, they didn't mean to. Like, they didn't know. Like, they took her stick bird. And she's like, they're my rivals.

And I'm just like, the line delivery is so funny. Like, it's such a funny word for a kid to say, rivals rather than enemies or whatever she beats to say. And I was like, Emily, check it out. She's gonna... And then I'm like laughing at the lie delivery, and Emily's like, you've lost your mind. It's a show about imagining a play, but it's also quietly stealth,

a show about realizing your parents are people with disappointments and like... That's for sure. And it's also a show about how parents make fun of their kids in the gentle, fun ways, and like kids make fun of their parent. Like, it just understands shit, man. It's so good.

And the creator's super hot. I discovered this. He's a babe. Joe Brum. He looks like Ken Burns as a rhythm guitarist for a grunge band. With a better haircut? Yeah, with a much better haircut. But similar, you know, like where you're like, Ken,

let someone at your hair. Like, we can do more with this. Peace and love, man, peace and love. Anyway, why did we get on Bluey? I just want, we're timestamping the episode. I just wanted to know your thoughts. I've been curious and I thought I'd do it on microphone instead of texting you. I was so invested in this song.

I mean, I thought it was wonderful. I knew where it was going with the coin, but I thought it was wonderful. Beautiful television. Beautiful, you know, and I do think that thing, the moral of the sign, which is basically telling kids like, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen and that's okay, like is profound. It's sense of-

In a not pretentious way. It's sense of Rube Goldbergian storytelling where everything affects everything else is much better than the postman's sense of that. And I brought it back. I did it. Yeah, the postman, well, it does of course end with for whatever reason the postal service gathers the line of troops Bethlehem have gathered a line of troops. Yes. And the Civil War where they're just standing there and it's like,

what's gonna happen? And then Kevin Costner's like, I invoke rule seven. I challenge you. And Wil Patton's like, you're not a holinist. He's like, yes I am, here's my brand. I was hoping you'd forget about that. Somehow he's forgotten. I established that two and a half hours ago.

Why do you think this movie's still- Not that long ago. How does Wil Patton not recognize Kevin Costner? It's wild. Whatever. He shaved. He shaved. He shaved. It's like Harkin putting on glasses or whatever. Can I also say he looks better with the beard? Yeah, I think so.

And he's an unbelievably handsome man, but he looks good with the beard in this movie. And it fits the aesthetic of the movie. I think that it is kind of smart to have this end as one guy versus one guy. I think that the fight choreography leaves something to be desired. Yeah, them just rasslin' in the dirt's a little underwhelming.

And then this kind of extended like, I'm not gonna kill you, male is better than murder. And then Lorenz State's gonna do it and then he doesn't do it. And then like, Will Patton's like, aha, it will kill you. And then fuckin' state's going to do it and then he doesn't do it. And then like, will patents like, ah, hi, we'll kill you. And then fucking the other guy shoots him and you're like, okay. And then Ken cost is like, we're going to have new rules, no murder, male. And it was like, uh, yay. And then just cut to 30 years later, life is completely

normal again. Cities look normal. People are wearing lands and clothing. Like it's cut to 30 years later, life is completely normal again. Cities look normal. People are wearing Land's End clothing. It's just like, we're back to normal. The postman's daughter. We've reestablished Patagonia. Yes. Salutes a statue of the postman. They have a statue.

It's his daughter. Mary Stuart Masterson in an incredible performance. I love to think about later Olivia Williams being like, yeah, your dad was a cool guy. What's the vibe? I don't know why. I approached him at a party, was married at the time. Right, because most of their relationship

for the second half of the movie is her being like, I just wanna make it clear, this is not your baby. And he's like, I think it's my baby. I was like, it's my husband's baby. Might be dedicating a statue to me one day, statue, Jesus. Yeah. I also like that they have the little boy

back in the statue from a moment that only the postman remembers, and then the little boy is there as a grown man. He's like, that was me. That was me. And the other guy's like, that was you what? Giving him a letter? Sure.

Didn't lots of people give him letters? Wasn't he a postman? I don't know if it was in Waterworld Fallout or Robin Hood Fallout, but Kevin Reynolds had this incredible line, because they would just fall out and then get back together again and then fall out. They were a warring couple.

Yeah. And he had this incredible line where he's like, I think Kevin should only direct his own movies from here on out. That way he always gets to work with his favorite movie star and his favorite director. Which is a good, a good, uh, good razz. Right. And you read the reviews of this film and the moment that just breaks them beyond

repair is the statue where they're like, this thing fucking ends with him putting a giant cold version of himself on screen. That was the question I was going to pose to you guys. And basically having everyone pledge allegiance to them. Obviously this movie just ending with him being like, rule one, no murder is not amazing. But does it bring this movie down like a full star to then have an epilogue where they're like,

in case you didn't get it, we think that guy was good. Yes. And here's a statue of him. I was thinking about, have you ever read the novel A Canticle for Leibowitz? I'm going to assume not. It's one of my favorite, it's my favorite post-apocalyptic novel,

that and the movie, that and the book Ridley Walker. Both of them are set long after a nuclear war. Canticle for Leibowitz does a similar thing where it's like, what does religion look like after a nuclear war? It's a bunch of monks, they find this guy named Leibowitz's shopping list and they keep transcribing it and it gradually evolves into a religion and it follows 1500 years of history. And I'm

like, if this movie jumps 500 years later and now the male is a weird religion, that's a better ending. It's maybe a more nonsensical one, but. You know what this movie reminded me of a lot while watching it? Original Planet of the Apes. Sure. And in the same way that like a lot of talking and like very methodically paced. That movie is very slow, the original, but it's also like well under two hours. But it has the same sort of like disorienting like what's going on here.

It takes about 40 minutes for like Heston to meet the apes. It's so deliberate in setting everything up, but it's going for the similar vibe of like, the before times were so long ago that they've become abstracted. They're trying to treat this the same way as if it's the ape civilization that's being like disrupted by Heston's new ideas. And you're right that like the starting point

of this movie needs to be further in the future and the epilogue needs to be even further out. Or just that doesn't need to exist. Sure. The epilogue probably doesn't need to exist. Like I think it really hurts the movie to be like male made the world normal. Yeah. Like, can't I just imagine a better future is coming rather than just like truly

like a, we clicked our fingers and there's fucking running water and like, you know, whatever else. I needed to see the designing of the statue. I needed to see them cast it. Well, that's the spin-off thing. I needed to see them decide where to place it. And I wanna talk about the stamp economy. They barely get into it in this film.

I mean, I'm certain that he would have been featured on at least one stamp. Absolutely. Absolutely. If not multiple. That's what they should have ended on. Oh my God. Should have ended on the stamp. Yes have been featured on at least one stamp. Absolutely. If not multiple. That's what they should have ended on. Oh my God. Should have ended on the stamp. Yes.

They should have ended on the stamp. It shouldn't have been a statue. It should have been a stamp. And it just kind of doesn't look like him. Yeah. Like stamps never look, yeah, it'd be great. It'd be great. I do like, I think that the book would work better

as a mini series. The second section of the book, which is not touched on in this film at all, but it's super good, like sets up the big bad as an AI that turns out to just be two guys who are like Oracle of Delphi style being like, uh, that seems like the answer. And I think that if you blended that with some of the, that would be a more novel villain in Bethlehem, but I think Costner is afraid of the sci-fi aspects of this tale.

The way I absolutely, I mean, it's. The guy has only ever directed Westerns and the furthest he's gone out of his comfort zone is Western combined with a different genre. And he's leaning more on the Western than the sci-fi. I think not to be the person who comes on and just talks about the politics of filmmakers, but I think that Costner's politics

are often read as conservative. And I think they broadly are, but they're more libertarian. He's like... But he endorsed Mayor Pete and Joe Biden. Like, he has this kind of like... He was traditionally a deeply liberal kind of borderline radical guy,

and he's a big environmentalist, and then over time, he's gotten a little more... Right, I think he's got these crusty elements to him. He's kind of normie. I think that him being on Yellowstone has vastly influenced that, because Yellowstone is a show that has more progressive politics than you'd expect,

but also was watched by red states. So people are like, well, this is a show about how Donald Trump is good. And it's actually a show about how the social order is horribly broken, but it's the one we've got, so we might as well live with it. Sure.

And also I feel like Taylor Sheridan, it's like his politics on like Native Americans are fine, but there's a patronizing element to it. Yeah. The wind river thing of like Jeremy Renner being like, I'm one of you. Yeah. Being like, okay.

It's like, yeah. It's very much a thing of like, Taylor Sheridan will acknowledge this land was stolen unethically and horribly and immorally and a bunch of people died in that process. But also what are you going to do? That happens. And this guy's pretty cool.

Yeah, this guy's pretty great. Yellowstone also. Yellowstone's like Dallas. It's like a big, frothy soap with insane shit happening. There is an episode where a bear chases two Chinese tourists off a cliff and they're hanging to the side of the cliff. And then this guy, the main guy comes and is like going to rescue cliff and they're hanging to the side of the cliff and then this guy that Yeah, yeah, the main guy comes and is like gonna rescue them

They fall but it's a yeah a bear like it's a kind of show where a bear chases people off a cliff and it's like Wrongly understood as like Kevin Costner being like now Donald Trump. He's the man. We got it. We got it Like that the episode kind of in people's heads. Oh, right, right yeah. The episode you just described probably got same day, live ratings, three times that of the finale of Succession. Oh, absolutely. I actually know that was in season one when the show was barely watched. Okay, okay.

It is, but it was a slow building show, sort of like Breaking Bad. But I think that Costner, he has been written off as a very radical in the past. You know, I grew up in South Dakota, which is where Dances with Wolves was filmed. And like there was this complicated relationship with that film there.

But largely it was, it's like when the movie comes to the small town, you know, and everyone's like, oh my God, the movie star is gonna sleep with me, but for a whole state. And we're still dining out on Dances with Wolves nostalgia, which is very weird because there's not a lot of it, but I do think. There's some though, it was such a big movie.

I think that he is interested in the many ways in which the social order is broken and oppresses the wrong people, as long as people like Kevin Koshner remain at the top. I think that you're dead on with that. And so this movie is about, we need a society, but it can't go as far as the book, which is like, society means you have to kind of

let everybody live and like be themselves. It's like, well, but Kevin Costner still needs to be the leader. Right. And Kevin Costner's big philosophy in this movie seems to be like, should we be nice? Let's be nice to each other, write each other letters and stuff. Now it really sounds like Biden.

I'll see you later. That was the thing that really hit me, is like, is like, we're living in this era when like people fucking hate each other and like everybody wants their own sort of individually catered experience in this movie is about like, no society is about connection. And the first thing we would want after the end would be to connect with each other in some capacity. And like the way you do that is through the mail. But like it absolutely is, you know, that moment when two tiny civilizations make contact and they can't be in touch with each other is so profound and beautiful. I don't know. This movie should be better.

It's also wild that this movie has been 1997 before like internet culture has really like found its footing and let alone like smartphones where you're like the mail being the thing would make so much more sense today where you're like well this really is a form of communication that is almost alien to how we think about interacting with each other now you know um and there's so many things like the way you're describing the book where you're like this does sound like something that someone could readapt very well right now, but I do think more so than Waterworld, which as we were saying has sort of had its reputation

restored in some way, this is like the postman is toxic, like as a title. It's like that is inextricably tied to the notion of this guy losing the plot. They should just call the TV series Gordon the name of the character call it Gordon and it's also an elf been off. So it's like the postman meets elf or post post man Yeah, Ben, do you know the the Costner BP oil spill thing? No, cuz I think this is just interesting to briefly touch on in relation to the politics stuff

We're talking about I feel like we've talked about it years ago. When the BP oil spill happened and everyone was like, this unfortunately is a problem with no solution. Things are just going to keep on getting worse. The ocean's on fire and animals are dying. Kevin Costner showed up in the Senate and was like, I like off to the side have invested tens of millions of dollars of my own money into building a machine that can separate oil from water.

And I've been working on that for a giant centrifuge that like spins oily water to separate them. And he's like, my brother's like a marine biologist and he's serious about this. And I've always cared about this issue. And I independently fund a bunch of scientific like experiments. I believe they are used. Yes, like the government bought them after Deepwater Horizon. But like Kevin Conster just kind of showed up and was like,

hey, by the way, I happen to have the solution for this exact problem in a way that is very much in line with the way that people want to position the idea of like Bezos or Musk. Of like, look at how responsibly they're using their money. And he has like a couple of times kind of successfully done that, but it does speak to this sense of like, we need to like connect and this needs to be a society. But also there needs to be like an amazing guy who shows up out of the shadows and stoically walks in

and is like, I used my movie star money to make the perfect machine. Which is so much like- I'm your savior, you know? It's so much of it is boomer liberalism. That is like, we need to come together as a society as long as I'm here leading the charge. Right, and getting pats on the back.

He did not do as much of a public victory lap over that as you would expect, to the extent that you don't know that story. I think a lot of our listeners will not. He did go and speak in front of the fucking government, and it was televised and whatever, but it still was a little like, I'm just here to solve the problem. There's also a thing where like Stephen Baldwin sued him and said he'd like cheated him out of money and then lost the lawsuit. And Kevin Costner was like, my name is more important than money.

Yes. Beat this motherfucker. Yeah. Stephen Baldwin, of course, a normal person who doesn't do anything weird. Stephen Baldwin, one of those things where like, nah, Alec, you ain't out weird to me. I'm always going to be one step ahead. Next movie for Costner after this is Message in a Bottle? Yes, which is two years later and is like, you know, obviously kind of just not ignored, but it's just kind of like a shrug. A winter Nicholas Sparks movie at an inflated budget.

After that is... You're into Dragonfly in 13 days and... Don't excuse me. Don't forget for the love of the game. For love of the game. The Sam Raimi film. Which we talked about. We did. Of course, you can go back to that episode, but that is the movie where he like completely torpedoes whatever he still has left. Where he chooses to make that like his public battle of fighting the studio and being like I do not endorse this movie

that is coming out in theaters next week because they wouldn't let me make it three hours long and like have say fuck eight times and like maybe show like three or four just on my dick yeah and there's the quote which we read that Universal put out where they were like, first of all, we do not respect Kevin Costner taking a $50 million asset and holding it hostage in the press. Secondly, he's trying to present us as being anti-creative. We fully backed the vision of the director of this film

and his name is Sam Raimi, not fucking Kevin Costner. And that's the moment where they were like, this should be an easy layup for you. This is a $50 million sports movie movie like go back to your safe spot And he chose to burn it all down on that. I just want to say Ben and I yesterday we're digging into our stats on iTunes for the podcast because we were curious about like a recent episodes had done and the way that Apple has changed their algorithm, it gives you like in real time,

like what is sort of your highest episode ever and how does every episode perform relative to that? And it threw out that our most median episode ever is for the love of the game. So if you're looking at the performance of any episode, it goes, how does this compare to For Love of the Game? That's awesome. With a little bit of a crank up.

The episode where the bit is Ben saying, I think I'm producing a perfect podcast. This is it. This is the best one. It just keeps saying in bold, most median. I just want to say about his script. Message in a Bottle made money. It, you know, critics ignored it, but like whatever. Uh, For Love of the Game, bit of a under performer.

Then in 2000, he does 13 Days, which is like a very watchable movie and is seen as his potential comeback, but he does just about the worst Boston accent you ever heard, and he's a master of bad accents. And it's kind of, it like under performs. Like the Oscars ignore it, it doesn't make a ton of money. I think they did one of those like one week qualifying run

and then it actually got released in February and it didn't get the noms. And then by that point, New Line kind of gave up on it. In pandemic, I put that on like being like. A deeply solid. Yeah. And I was like watching it and I was like, it is a little like, it's a little spongy.

Like it's a little slow. Like it should be amazing. And instead it's just pretty good. Like Bruce Greenwood, incredible as Kennedy in it. Yes. Costner just playing sort of the JFK character, but not paranoid, but where he's just like, hey, Mr. President, how do you like these apples?

You know, have you seen these missiles over in Cuba? You know, like he's not. The Thousand Miles to Graceland is arguably his all-time low. And then the next episode we'll talk about Open Range comes after that where it's like- Yeah, after that and Dragonfly, which is Tom Shadiex. So we'll cover that on the show one day. But he's this level of guy where his stardom was so great for like a decade that it's kind of- he's always going to be a movie star to a degree.

But at that point in time, it's like, you are a deeply diminished movie star. What do you think of 3000 Mouses of Greaseproof? I've never seen it. Neither have I. No one's ever seen it. Yeah, I don't think it's a real movie. It was one of those like,

golden raspberry movies where people didn't even bother. They just saw the poster and they were like, oh, you're telling me this one's bad. I can't believe it. The other thing is like most of the films that we just listed were all like dumpuary releases. Like he starts to become a king of dumpuary guy. Obviously we should note, of course,

the postman won five for Aziz. Worst actor, worst director, worst picture, worst screenplay, and then worst original song to the entire song selection. I don't even remember the real songs. The songs in this movie are, there's a cover of Come and Get Your Love that's pretty fun.

That was fun, I liked that. Did you wait through the credits for the song that Kevin Costner performs with Amy Grant? I get that. I love that. Truly bad. I love to hear that, he did that, that rocks. You can find it on Spotify, everyone. Even if you haven't seen this movie,

you should go listen to Kevin Costner. I've maybe said this before uh Draft Day was a fairly low budget movie and so unlike I think most films he works on everyone was in one hair and makeup trailer with like many seats it wasn't his own trailer and uh the cause got to control the sound system in that Her makeup trailer and you'll never guess what his favorite band to listen to was in the makeup trailer every morning Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. That would have been my guess. Hey C and the Modern West. Okay What the fuck is that? Kevin Costner's band, of course Good for him and then the rap party for the film was one of his concerts. Oh, good. So I'm quite familiar with his musical.

I can get you a good rate on this. For you, 10% off ticket Newman. 10% off ticket price. Do you still talk to Cost all the time? Yeah. You text every night. You send him funny memes. No, I mean. You write him letters. Yeah. You print out the memes and mail them to him. What I should have fucking

said Ben. I have comedy points. I had such a wonderful time with him truly and I like have a very high impression of him and I think he was like very kind to me and like gave me a lot of like uh guidance as an actor that I still think about to this day and I genuinely question if he could like recognize me from a lineup and I don't say that of any rudeness because it felt like he was like, he would intimately lock into me. But I'm also like, is he like the postman going from town to town? Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I wouldn't be offended. Like I wouldn't be like, how dare you not remember?

No, but it would be nice if you like ran into him, God knows how or when, and he would be like Griffin. Like, you know, that'd be cool. I don't think he's come to New York in probably 20 years. Well, no, where you know, let's say. Where the real actors are. I mean, the last thing I think, the most recent thing he has said to me,

and it's not even really to me, was at the premiere of Draft Day, I went up to him and I was like, hey, Kevin, congrats, the movie turned out great, you're so good in it. And he just, as I finished the sentence, turned over to Ivan Reitman, who was standing next to him and said, like,

I told you the kid was gonna be good. That's pretty cool. It was cool, but I was also like, you're saying it as if I'm not next to you. It's cool, though. That's the kind of movie star shit I'd be pulling. It was cool. It was cool.

But it was even already a statement of like, I'm taking credit for saying that he was gonna be good, which was nice. Yeah. It made me feel like my dad approved of me. It'd be better if, yeah, if he was just like to Reitman, like, I'm taking credit for saying that he was gonna be good, which was nice. It made me feel like my dad approved of me. Like, it'd be better. It'd be better than, like, yeah, if he was just like the right man, like, lose the kid, right, get him out of here.

So I work on, uh, yellow jackets, which is on a, uh, a Paramount network. And so I am coworkers with Kevin. Well, not for much longer because he's left. Yeah. Not right. Right. Your show is on Showtime plus Paramount plus. Yes. Whereas he is on Paramount plus plus Showtime. Not at all. Right. Your show is on Showtime plus Paramount Plus. Yes.

Whereas he is on Paramount Plus plus Showtime. Something like that, yeah. To be clear, he's not on Yellowstone anymore. But you are both working on yellow shows. Yellow shows, yeah. Yellow. A couple of Yellowbellies. Yeah.

I feel like you have to discuss Yellowstone and Yellowjackets at the same time. It boosts me. Thank you so much. But they did like a sizzle reel of like, here's all of our shows talking about important emotions and things like that. And there's one clip from Yellowstone in it and it's basically Kevin Costner being like,

you know, I have feelings sometimes. And like, I think the postman, I think he's such a vulnerable screen presence before the postman and the postman totally breaks him. He doesn't know how to be vulnerable anymore. He tries to be, but it's all out of whack. Yeah. I think I'm so sad that people know him

as the Yellowstone guy and assume that he loves Donald Trump and assume that he has no feelings because he was so soulful. He's a lot. He's a sensitive actor. That's always been his superpower as a movie star is like he's this stoic like oak tree And when that gives a little bit and it breaks and he gives you a little bit of emotion

It's like so affecting and I see like a lot of I think To target Gen Z, but I will see comments from people who are like I don't understand How this guy became such a major movie star. He feels really flat to me. Right. Right. Right. He's got this sort of affect in every performance. Right. Why was this one of the big actors of the right? But it was like, first off, I think he is a little bit undervalued at the craft of his acting.

And I think we've called out several of the performances where he did not have the movie star weight on him. And he felt the freedom to just act. And I think very often as a movie star he is functioning as he's approaching it as a storyteller first and foremost right even a movie is where he's not directing it he is I think always thinking about the big picture of the story how the audience is going to interpret it what are the story beats that make people like that pull them in, that push them away, all that sort of stuff.

So there's something very like big picture in the way he approaches, like steering the ship of a movie. And he also just understands the effectiveness of like has such a good understanding of how he plays on camera, the effect of his voice, like all these things, which when you watch a movie like this, it is so frustrating to see him misapply it. He is very good on Yellowstone.

Like they give him no good material, but he's playing Western Logan Roy and he's just like locked into what that guy needs to be and they just don't give him the stuff. The motherfucker just like never doesn't have presence and he just belongs on screen and I saw the horizon trailer in a theater recently and like the first sort of major closeup they give him in that trailer where I feel like he slowly turns in and it's the kind of like extended longing look you talk about.

I saw that and I was just like, Jesus Christ, this guy belongs up here. You know, after like such a weird arc of like movies, TV, back to movies, back to TV, whatever, you're like something about him wearing a cowboy hat and his head being a hundred feet tall and him just sort of squinting and looking off into the distance, like he's just one of the great like special effects

we still have. He looks good on a dang horse. He looks great on a dang horse. He looks great on a dang horse. I should first tell you. Can I just say, is this one we've done before? Because I remember this vividly. You've done this one as well before? No, no, no, no. This is one you've done before.

I remember this vividly because I saw this film in theaters and had so many other options that I should have taken. Is it the same Weekend as Titanic? No, it's not. But this is a time we have come to many times in the history of blank check. Now, of course, the Postman cost $80 million to make. It made 17 domestic, but wait, let's check the worldwide numbers.

Oh, 20, okay. 20 worldwide. So it was a gigantic flop. I saw it in a theater with one person. It was a man in a cowboy hat, and at the end of it, he stood up and pointed at me and said, someone needs to tell that man no. Oh my God.

I was like, okay. I can't believe you've been sitting on that all episode. That is incredible. He'd even lost cowboy hat guy. But that speaks to the culture's relationship to him at that point. It wasn't just fucking Hollywood reporter

writing about him this way. It was a follow on thing from Westworld and all this other stuff. Everyone was like, this guy needs to fucking have a timeout. The film got bad reviews. It opened in the midst of Titanic becoming a phenomenon. So what weekend is this for Titanic? Two.

And I just also want to point out, this is an interesting note from JJ, this is the going postal era, where that's a big news story and kind of Letterman gag. That is wild. The post office and postman are not hugely high in credibility at this moment. And so there's a lot of gags about a movie

where the postman is a hero, get the fuck out of here, whatever. It's the one thing that's aged best, is now you're like, I wish the government functioned. Number one at the box office though, Griffin on December. So this movie has no jokes about dogs hating him. Should have jokes about that. There is one joke.

Really? When he first arrives. You're right. Yeah. He says something about the dogs have to be leashed. Would have been better with Robin Williams. Hey blank check listeners. This is Emily from the future.

We recorded this postman episode in April and I am recording this now in July shortly before the episode drops. I have now finished reading the novel, the postman, and I am amazed at how much of the weirdest shit in the film, the postman, including the term body father, uh, is from the novel, the postman. Uh, I did not make that clear enough in this episode as we recorded it. I feel truly bad about that. I don't want to blame Kevin Costner, anyone else involved in this film for coming up with some of the weirder stuff about Abby and about the postman sleeping with Abby. Uh,

cause a lot of that is from the book, although they don't run off together at the end of the book. Spoilers for the book, I guess. Also, I wish to apologize. I doubted David when he said there would be a surprise Bluey episode. There was indeed a surprise Bluey episode.

If that made it into the cut, I apologize to all of you for being wrong about something for the first time in my life. All right, thank you. Back to the past. December 26th, 1997, oh, oh, oh, December 26th, 1997. What's number one?

The postman is opening to number nine. Okay, it's Titanic again, still, right? Titanic is number one at the box office, growing 24%. I'm trying to think what made us cover this weekend before. Is this the as good as it gets weekend? Correct!

So number two though is what opened with Titanic. We've covered it on this Patreon. We covered it on Patreon? Yeah, come on. It's Tomorrow Never Dies? Tomorrow Never Dies is number two. Also doing well though, not Titanic well. And opening new number three is as good as it gets.

Sixteen million dollars and it's going to have a very healthy run and make 150. Yeah, Jesus. Great movie. So you got those three. Number four is a family film, family comedy. 101 Doll nations? No. That's 96, I think.

Yes, that's 96. Definitely a movie you like, probably liked at the time. Oh, is it Mouse Hunt? Oh, Emily. Mouse Hunt. I know this Mouse Hunt or Verbinski's Mouse Hunt, which is also expanding and doing well. It's Christmas time. You know, it's great. Weird ass movie when David Krumhut's called out how well directed Mouse Hunt is. He did. Yeah. Did we do that episode yet? Yes. Yeah. It will come out again. I can't keep anything straight in my head. Me neither. This is Emily. this is the first time we realized,

largely because we're doing three short directors in a row, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday of this week, each day we're doing a different miniseries. Yeah, we did Cone, now Costner, Tomorrow, Breast. Number five of the box office. Opening this week in a somewhat baffling Christmas release is a great film. My favorite film in 1997, probably.

It's not L.A. Confidential? No. Great movie. That's number 20. It's a book adaptation by a director who's definitely gets talked about a lot. It's a book adaptation by a director who definitely gets talked about a lot.

I mean, it's like a really, really, really important director. It's his big follow up to a gigantic movie. It's his big follow up to a gigantic movie, and it's a book adaptation. It's your favorite movie of 1997. It was a mild hit, made 40 mil. Certainly, you know, come down from his last film.

And in terms of hype, also a come down. Was the previous film a blockbuster or was it just like a big awards film? Big awards film that made a ton of money. It was both. Yeah, I mean, it was one of the most consequential films ever made in American history. Oh, it's Jackie Brown.

Correct. I mean, how do you describe Pulp Fiction? No, you're right. The most seismic cultural event of the 90s in cinema, basically. It was his like big idea of like, isn't it funny to release this movie on Christmas and everyone Sanchez got a brand new bag Ad campaign everyone felt like it backfired and then like 15 years later

He does it again with Django and it fucking works Where they counter program Django on Christmas Day and it explodes his highest grossing film Django is Jackie Brown certainly is not. Do you like Jackie Brown? I love Jackie Brown. I think it's my favorite. Mine too. It always has been. I've been meaning to give it a re-watch, but I've seen it so many times. It's so fucking good. Number six at the box office is Scream 2, which came out just less than a year after Scream 1, of course.

It is making tons of money. Number seven, opening new this week, is the incredibly ill-advised remake of an American Werewolf in London. It's a sequel, right? It's not a remake. It's sort of a legacy sequel, I guess, before that existed. Julie Delby and Tom Everett Scott?

Correct. Directed by Anthony Waller. Well, of course. The film is called, yes, American Werewolf in Paris. Yeah. Number eight is Flubber. This was an era where any time anything was even vaguely franchise,

I assume my mother would be thrilled about it. And I remember walking past the poster in a theater and go, the Werewolf's in Paris. You're gonna wanna see that, right? He was like, no thank you. Yeah. Number eight is Flubber in its fifth weekend.

What? The Postman couldn't knock off Flubber in his fifth weekend. What if the Postman had Flubber? Then be, I don't know. I think chaos would have, huh. Flubber in his fifth weekend. What if the Postman had Flubber? I don't know. I think chaos would have been... Flubber was a big hit.

Flubber was a modest flubber. What it gets you, 98? 92. Pretty good. For a movie as bad and stupid as Flubber, not bad. For a movie that's like the big Disney Thanksgiving Family movie with Robin Williams, maybe a little under. I know this isn't the reality

I know it was two different eras of development on this project, but it's funny to imagine Create the fake idea of Robin Williams standing above a desk and one script says the postman and one says flubber What do I do? number nine new this week is the postman and number ten luckily the Postman could beat out the first weekend of Mr. Magoo, the Leslie Nielsen film where he plays the blind, I mean, cartoon character. A deeply bizarre film.

I have not seen it. I skipped that one. A film directed by Stanley Tong, who directed a lot of Jackie Chan's best movies on paper. Right, and I'm sure, physical humor, right? Mr. Magoo, he's gonna miss, he'll be walking, right? And the plane misses him. He'll be on a construction site.

Right, he goes up, he goes down. Beam and yeah. Hollywood's been struggling to figure out. We all know Mr. Magoo. Yeah, Hollywood's been struggling to figure out how to use Jackie Chan, right? They're constantly going like, what other franchises can we plug Leslie Nielsen,

our greatest seven year old movie star into? They land on Mr. Magoo and then they're like, oh, why wouldn't you hire the fucking Jackie Chan director to do the funny action in your family comedy? And the movie is like, inert. It has an opening credit sequence. I saw this in theaters. It has an opening credit sequence that is animated this in theaters. It has an opening credit sequence

that is animated with classic Magoo. And when it transitions from animation to live action, you're like, I think we just left the best part of the movie. I think the entire reason I came to the theater to see Mr. Magoo in the flesh is starting and now everyone is bored immediately. Take us out.

Next week we have Open Range, which is not even a comeback for him, but it's kind of like a reputation comeback for him, which is a great film. I'm sorry you couldn't cover that. Oh, no, listen. I like to- You wrote us a long email saying you wanted The Postman.

I, when Lynch won, I was like, fuck, I love Lynch. And then I was like, but I've already committed to The Postman. I was like, gotta do it. You had mailed your letter. Gotta do it. I, my final postman story is New Year's Eve 97 hanging out with some friends and we're like, let's go see Titanic. And they're like, we gotta get time to see Titanic. And somewhere in the middle of that, I'm like, well, let's not see the postman. Cause I'd seen it and was like, it's bad. And then we're all out for dinner beforehand and this other group of people come in

and having not been able to get tickets to Titanic. And the woman with them is so furious and she's mad and she's screaming. And I'm like, that angry girl is too much. Reader, I married her. That was the first time I met my wife. What? And I have Titanic to thank,

but also tangentially the postman. Somewhat the postman. Somewhat. Yeah. Not really. I did not say. Kevin Costner is like the Postman is the hero of this story. And they were like. And with a statue of him. You're welcome. And they were like, yeah, they were like, uh, what are you going to do instead?

And my wife was like, we're just going to go watch videos. And I, so I did not get a chance to tell her not to see the Postman, which would have been like the first time we talked. Kevin Costner hears this story because he's of course a rabbit blankie and solemnly tips his cap, looks off into the distance and says, yes, my wedding invite must have gotten lost in the mail. Emily, take us out. Yellow Jackets, do we know when the new season is coming?

I don't know. I'm guessing early 2025. But yeah, go watch the first few seasons. I don't have anything to do with them, but it's one of my favorite shows. I'm so lucky to get to work on it. And I am writing episode six of the new season. So when that episode airs, everyone needs to watch it,

just to show that the blank check bump applies to premium cable shows. Yeah, I co-host a podcast. Let's see, when this is coming out in July, August? July 21st. It's July. Okay, so we are very shortly switching over to being podcast like it's the 2000s.

Oh wow. We're gonna be covering the decade of the 2000s, split up into mini series. Our first one is the 10 highest grossing films of the 2000s. Wow. I have like several books coming out. My novel, Woodworking, comes out in April 2025.

I am very proud of it. It's a very good book. Yeah, everybody, but right now it's available for pre-order. So just go to Amazon and like get refresh. There will be a link in the description. Ooh. By April we'll probably be doing Shadyac, right? So if you want to put your chips down on Dragonfly right now.

Oh, absolutely. And finally, my most, my most, just flying around full calm. My most proximate thing is in September, I have a book coming out about the TV show Lost that you can and should buy. It's called Back to the Island. I wrote it with my former AV club colleague, Noel Murray. You can find me on all social platforms at Emily St. Jams. I'm primarily on Blue Sky and Letterboxd, but I do other things.

Why, the other ones are good. Yeah, they're all great. They're wonderful. Thank you for being here. Absolutely. Take us out so I can ask you a scheduling question. What were you going to say? Sorry, Emily. I was just saying I love being on the show. It's a great time. I love you guys. And you tried to interrupt that nice sentiment from our friend!

Emily, thank you for being here. Absolutely. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show. AJ McKeon for our editing. AJ McKeon is also our production coordinator. Lay Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song.

Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. JJ Birch for our theme song, Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, JJ Birch for our research. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit including our Patreon blank check special features, which as we said we're doing Waterworld over there. Ben is pointing at a screen. What do you have to say? This date will be our final entry in our Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles commentary series. Wow. Mutant Mayhem, which you may be surprised to hear then love Good movie good movie blew my pants off. It was a first time watch for him Oh, wow, you get to hear him get very excited in real time. I slam and scream a lot

Also, because we haven't done this in a little while we do unlock Also, because we haven't done this in a little while, we do unlock. We have the free tier on our Patreon. Every 10 days we unlock an episode from three years ago for public consumption. And so that is actually the final entry in our Twilight commentary series. And that was quite a good series. It was. If I might say so myself with three years distance, I think that was a fun one and certainly the the new moon episode with our friend Chris whites the director of that movie I highly recommend absolutely now it's free. We're giving it back to the people

You can listen to that on patreon as well as available on Spotify. Yeah, you can link those things up on Spotify playing check special features Yeah Tune in next week for open Range. And as always, the real male. Was the cuddly shadow on the way. No, no, that's a perfect ending. It's a perfect ending. All right. Pulitzer Prize winning.

Thank you.