Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Prestige with Alison Willmore

Episode Date: July 23, 2017

Host of Filmspotting: SVU podcast, Alison Willmore (BuzzFeed), joins Griffin and David to discuss one of the three magician films of 2006, The Prestige. But is this movie a sequel to Twins? How does it fit into the Nolan canon? Piper Perabo tho? Together they examine Hugh Jackman’s ham, ScarJo’s career trajectory, Theseus's paradox and throwing playing cards into melons.

Every great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called the pledge. The magician shows you something ordinary, a deck of cards, a bird, or a man. He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course, it probably isn't. The second act

is called the turn. The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret. But you won't find it. Because of course you're not really looking.

You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough. You have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act. The hardest part. The part we call

the podcast! That's the number one worst impression I have ever done. I've been avoiding doing michael kane all miniseries because i knew i couldn't do it my favorite thing was that it got demonstrably worse halfway through like it started rocky and then it ended up rocky four rocky five even rocky five i'm sorry i'm sorry to say it ended up rocky five yeah yeah hi everybody my name is griffin newman i'm david Sims. That was very funny.

That's the first twist of this episode is that I am not, in fact, Michael Caine. You might be fooled. People were like, oh, they got a big pull for them. They got Caine? My name is Griffin Newman. His name is David Sims. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and Dave. Welcome.

We are interested in filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their careers and they're given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy films they want and sometimes those checks clear

and sometimes they bounce why why is it like it's a little connery right there's cotton balls yeah

that was naughty that was naughty uh yeah uh huh uh well I'm really excited to start to talk about I just looked at Scarlett Johansson's filmography was your naughty uh yeah uh huh uh well I'm really excited to talk about

I just looked at Scarlett Johansson's filmography we can talk about that a lot uh this of course

is a mini series on the films of Scarlett Johansson uh no this is a mini series on the films of Christopher

Nolan yeah uh arguably the the biggest uh filmmaker of the last 10 years I'd say he's

the biggest filmmaker to emerge in the 21st century, right? Yeah. Depending on your metric. Yeah, sure. I don't know.

And this main series is called The Pod Night Cast. Yes, it is. And this episode is about a movie of his called Depreciation. Yep. Good job. Thank you. Good job. That is going to kill.

That's just going to kill. Our listeners are are gonna flip out I knew I was right to make you do that and it look you talk about sacrifice this is a movie about sacrifice

right yeah for sure every week when we're about to record and I'm picking out the quote David always says don't fucking pick a long one yeah I hate it

when you do something you always know what the long one I'm thinking about doing is right right right but this time I like to do a long one I was trying to do

a fucking Jackman quote and you said Duquesne you gotta Duquesne and I said it's a long one I'm thinking about doing is. Right, right, right. But this time I like to do a long one. I was trying to do a fucking Jackman quote, and you said Duquesne. You got to Duquesne. I said, it's a long one, and that was the sacrifice. That was the wife you lost in this episode. Yeah, right. All right, we have a guest. We do have a guest. She's laughed, so I'm considering that an intro.

Yeah, there you go. I like the guests to talk before we introduce them. It's a pet peeve of mine. I laughed off mic. How about that? She's a critic and a podcast host in her own right. Of Film Spotting SVU streaming video unit. Ladies and gentlemen, Alison Walmore is here with us today.

Hello, hello. Such a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for being here. Hi. How you doing? I'm okay. It was funny to me that you asked me to do Christopher Nolan because I feel like anyone has been as largely indifferent to Christopher Nolan.

It is me. But you do kind of like this one. I do like this one. This is definitely my favorite Christopher Nolan movie. Yes. We've done some of that. I mean, we had Amy Nicholson on the show, and she did Memento, which is kind of the one Nolan that she likes.

Right. Although she said she liked The Dark Knight as well, but I think she's more admired maybe than likes. Sure. I don't know. Sure. But yeah, well, I just feel like also it's good to have people on who are aware of Mr. Nolan's flaws, limits as a filmmaker, as a storyteller.

Well, yes. I mean, David, you and I are both fans of Christopher Nolan. Yeah. I mean, I'm aware of his limits too, but yeah. Right. Same here, but I think, you know, my trepidation doing this miniseries on him is they're already at such

a fervent culture of just worship around him, and then there's also this culture of just like, fuck that guy. Sure, sure. As what happens when there's a little too much worship. Right. And it's like, well, we're not really aiming to do either, but as with a lot of our miniseries, unlike a lot of our miniseries

where there's some sort of sense of re-evaluation that needs to be done we feel like or a sense of mystery of trying to figure out what happened to their creative mojo with him it's kind of just like he's there and you pick your side and either you love him or you hate him yeah so I think it's interesting to have people

on who are not totally enamored with his stuff you know we're fanboys with reservations I think it's interesting to have people on who are not totally enamored with his stuff. You know, we're fanboys with reservations, I think, you and I. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. But this is my favorite movie of his. It's my second favorite movie of his.

Wait, what's your favorite? You know what it is, Allison. You know what it is. Say it. I told you. Interstellar. Spoiler. No.

I feel like I'm... It's a difficult thing to get over with you. I am what I am. What are your greatest flaws? I've got a lot of them. A lot of flaws. That's a big one for sure. I do feel like I'm winning people over on Interstellar.

Or I'm not, but the movie is sort of... I've seen some shifts in its appreciation among people. Have you? I've sensed that as well. I've sensed that as well. I've sensed that as well but I will say I thought you were just going to say I feel like I'm winning people over.

I'm trying. As a father of two I have a lot of flaws. I'm trying to win people over. I feel like slowly but surely I'm making people like me. Prestige. 2006.

Yeah, so this was the year of dueling magician films. Of magician sacrifice movies. Not just movies about magicians, right? Magicians that are at war with other magicians. Yes. What a great year. Well, because the other one is The Illusionist,

but there was also Scoop, which I've never seen. Have you seen Scoop? Man, Joe Hanson was running the table. Was she? It's an interesting kind of like side career for her. And that was Jackman too. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Scoop, it's like Woody Allen's a musician, but Jackman's just like a fancy lord, right? I've never seen it. Wait, yes. Woody Allen's a magician. ScarJo's trying to like figure out something about Hugh Jackman and then Woody Allen's a magician.

Someone's a ghost in that movie. Isn't it also someone's a ghost in that movie? His movies are weird. Yeah, she's like a reporter. She's a plucky reporter. I think Jackman's a ghost in that movie? His movies are weird. Yeah, she's like a reporter. She's a plucky reporter. I think Jackman's a ghost in that movie. Because I remember when Match Point was like this big

kind of return to form for him, right? A serious movie. Real drama. Right, and people were really into Johansson's performance. No, I'm sorry. Ian McShane is a ghost in that movie who is guiding Scarlett Johansson

to figure out if Hugh Jackman murdered him because he thinks he did. Oh, okay. That's less exciting than Hugh Jackman being a guy. Then how does the magician thing figure it out? Woody Allen's just in it, just being an asshole. Just playing the great Splendini. Look, I can't explain Woody Allen's later movies to you.

It's weird. What I remember. Have you seen Irrational Man? Yes. That movie's fucking crazy. No, it's awful. When I watched that movie, I was like, why did no one tell me about this?

What happens in this movie? That movie's interesting. It's definitely interesting. It's an interesting movie. It's not good, but it is great. It's like a huge, insane shrug of a movie. How about that? It's a weird shrug of a movie about

like the thrill of being guilty but it has that same like kind of jazzy track playing over and over and over again and the like

total shrug narration where it's like you know in the end I pushed him down an elevator and it was an interesting summer for me

like you know credits like that's that's spoiler alert for the underbrush it's like Joaquin Phoenix's character everyone just is like he's so brilliant he's that's spoiler alert for the end of Russian Man it's like Joaquin Phoenix's character

everyone just is like he's so brilliant he's so amazing and he does like nothing to actually demonstrate this he teaches like a philosophy 101 course

I mean yeah weird movie the thing I would say I remember vividly is like hot off a match point F1's like

Scarja's back in a Woody Allen movie it's new muse what's the new project and they were like it's a ghost story. And people were like, ooh, Scar Jo. Because Match Point was so like, you know, kind of like straight faced.

Such a different term. Ooh, it's Scar Jo in a ghost story. And then they were like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, it's like Woody Allen's like doing 52 card pickup or whatever. That was this year. But also this year was The Illusionist. Yeah. Allison, where were you in 2006?

Did you see the Prestige in theaters? I saw The Prestige in theaters. I think I also saw The Illusionist in theaters. I saw both of the theaters. Yeah. And I like them both. In general, I like magic. Yeah, magic's good.

Do you like vintage magic? I like all magic, I think, in general. There's that upcoming, I think, a CBS show or something about a magician who gets recruited by the FBI to help them solve crimes. And honestly, like I've never been more excited about a TV show in my life. How am I not the lead on this show? I've never heard of this show. How am I not the assistant to the guy on that show? Let's be realistic.

All right, let me look this show up. I think it's called Deception. Oh my God. It like looks amazing. I'm going to watch that so up. I think it's called Deception. Oh, my God. It looks amazing. I'm going to watch it. I've never wanted... It's my perfect TV show. I really wanted to be a magician when I was a child.

I was very, very obsessed with magic until maybe the age of seven or eight. It's NBC, just to be clear. It's on NBC. Who plays the magician? I'll have that information for you in just one minute. It's Jack Cutmore Scott. Jack Cutmore Scott.

So good. He was in Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life. Cooper Barrett's Guide to Surviving Life. He played Cooper Barrett himself. I've never heard. What was that? That was a TV show. Okay.

I auditioned for that. Congrats. Yeah. You got Vinnie Jones is in it. Oh, okay. He plays the, what's the word. Oh, okay. He plays the, what's the word? Ingenieur?

He plays the ingenieur. Yeah. Oh, we should actually introduce Ingenieur Ben. Yeah. Hey, hello. A.K.A. Producer Ben. A.K.A. Producer Ben.

A.K.A. The Ben Ducer. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate. A.K.A. Our Finest Film Critic. A.K.A. The Haas. A.K.A. Mr. Positive. A.K.A. Mr. Hossitive. A.K.A. The Tiebreaker. A.K.A. Birthday Benny. A.K.A. Dirt Bike Benny. A.K.A. Soaking White Benny. A.K.A. The Meat Lover. critic aka the haas aka mr positive aka mr positive aka the tiebreaker aka birthday benny aka dirt bike benny aka soaking wet benny aka the meat lover aka the fart detective

uh he is not professor crispy no he is the fuck master sure i'm your trick man he's graduated to certain tolls over the course of different miniseries such as kylo ben producer ben kenobi ben night Shyamalan ben Ben Say, Say Ben-y-thing, Ailey Ben's with a dollar sign, and Warhaz. I heard a good Nolan suggestion now. I forgot it. Fuck.

Have you heard some? I've heard a few. Maybe some obvious ones, but like Benception. Look, Anjan or Ben is the one I want to introduce for this episode. Yeah, that's a good one.

There's one I want to save for when we get to that movie because I think it's really good, but the other ones that have sort of been thrown out are Hazal Gul. Yeah, I'm not into that. Mabento.

Mabento. Oh, boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Bensomnia. In Hazmia, I also heard. Oh, yeah. Well, no.

And thank you for introducing me. Harvey Bent. Oh, of course. Harvey Bent. There's like some other guy in the lobby. Is he just going to hang? He's my associate. Don't worry.

I mean, he's getting... Oh, I get it. I pay him out of my cut. It's fine. Okay, fine. That's fine. All right. We're sharing food.

It's fine. The prestige. I was in college. I don't know, Allison, where you were. I was out of college. I was just out of college. I think it was my last year of college. I was in high school.

I'm a baby. Yeah, you're a kid. And I remember seeing this, and I saw the twist coming. The twist. Well, that's... Quote, unquote. Yes. That's the whole trick of the world.

And I walked out and I was like, oh, I don't know. I feel like that didn't make any sense. Which twist? The twin? Yeah, the twin.

Spoilers. Yeah, come on. No, it's over a decade. Spoilers. This movie's a sequel to Twins. Yeah, the twin twist okay and i guess look i was i was a young fool i walked out and i was like wait that was the point i got that i don't get it i like the movie like i was like it was fine i don't know it looked okay i like the illusionist too uh and then i i feel like i figured it out like a couple years later see I had the exact opposite experience.

I saw it I was in high school. I was in the school play. What was the school play? It was Anything Goes. It was a production of Anything Goes. I've only been in one musical in my life, but I've been in Anything Goes twice. So in middle school, I was Moonface Martin.

Best role. Kind of a big deal in middle school. I was at a smaller school, and I was kind of running the table at the theater department. High school, I was Moonface Martin. Best role. Kind of a big deal in middle school. I was at a smaller school, and I was kind of running the table of the theater department. High school, Bloom was off the rose a little bit. So I played Elijah J. Whitney. That's fine. Moonface Martin's the best role. Definitely.

I really wanted to play Lord Evelyn Oakley. And this has been Griffin's Musical Corner. I can't sing. I can do any song from Anything Goes, though. I know that I know that musical it's a great musical can we hear one?

yeah Anything Goes great wonderful I feel like I was there on the sailboat whatever it is cruise ship

ocean liner it's been a while it's been a while it's been a while the I like got out of school early on Friday. I had rehearsal for the play at 4 o'clock.

So it was one of those things where I had to stay in Brooklyn. I ask him a simple question. And I don't know why I'm always surprised. It was a thing where I had a couple hours to kill. I didn't have time to go back home. So I went to the Court Street Theater close by. Sure. And I saw Prestige by myself.

And I felt like it had gotten middling reviews. Yeah, no, I feel like it got a fairly underwhelming shrug. Well, people like The Illusionist more, right? I feel like at the time people were like, that one is the good. And it had come out earlier. Yeah. It had more. It kind of stole the thunder.

And it had more of like a defined, like, sort of vintage-y look. Like, it's very brown. Patina? Maybe patina is the word you're looking for? Like a patina? Right, you know what? Yeah. All right, carry on. Oh, brown and patina maybe patina is the word you're looking for like a patina right you know what yeah all right carry on patina and it had giamatti and everyone was just we were high on gm and had aaron johnson playing a young edward norton we were not high on aaron johnson no never never shall we be yeah um well it was also like there was a weird arc where like, uh, Batman Begins was very

well liked. Sure. Right. He announces, I'm doing a magician movie. Like right away. Right. Like it was like right as Batman Begins had come out. Right.

Uh, I'm doing a magician movie with, with Wolverine and Batman and everyone was like, cool. And there was this cool poster. Remember that poster with the, uh, here I'm going to find it. Yeah. It's like the spirals. With the spirals. And they also did those posters, like individual character posters

with those dots, where if you look it up close, the dots all look the same, but if you move away, do you know what I'm talking about? Not like a magic eye, but it's like, it's equally sized dots, and they're slightly different shades of black. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a great poster. That's a great poster. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Here they are. Here are the dots. Dot posters. Oh, weird, weird. But if you look at it up close are the dots. Dot posters. Oh, weird. Weird. But if you look at it up close, the dots. Google it, listeners. You'll see what I'm talking about. Because it says, are you watching closely? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.

That's what he says over and over again. There was this weird thing, almost like the rivalry between the magicians in this movie, between the illusionists and prestige, where prestige is announced. Ooh, Nolan's follow-up before he makes his Batman sequel. This sounds cool. Then the illusionist premieres at Sundance. And it was a weird thing at the time where it was when Bob Yari was making movies

and suddenly he had these deep pockets that he was bankrolling things. And that movie had an $18 million budget. I remember people being like, what's this fucking $18 million movie doing at Sundance because at that time that was like right not a thing now you have like fucking 20 million dollars at sundance all the time um and then like no one was really excited about it it didn't do that well at sundance and then it came out like the end of august no it came out earlier than that i think here i can look it up i think it came out

in the summer i can't make, I'm looking it up. Okay. Give me a second. Okay. Jesus. But it did surprise me. No, you're right. End of August.

August 18th. Boom, boom, baby. And it was based on, let's not forget, a hot short story. Yeah, yeah. Written by Jonathan Nolan. And it was made by Neil Berger, who has just endured as a great artist. Divergent? Insurgent?

I think he only did one. He did the first one. Whatever the first one is. You're right. He was just agent? Insurgent? I think he only did one. He did the first one. Whatever the first one is. You're right. He was just a producer on Insurgent. I take it back. But it opened

in 50 screens and then just kept on platforming and ended up doing really well. So then by the time Prestige had come out, it was sort of like, oh, this is the

sloppy seconds movie. Even though Illusionist didn't have the same sort of hype leading up to it. I saw my one magician movie for the year. It was seen as like a surprise hit. Yeah, it was like a sleeper hit. It actually built an audience.

Even though it made less money than The Prestige, everyone was like, huh, look at that. They ended up pretty similar totals. Now 39 to 53. Oh, really? Not that similar. Okay. I remember The Prestige doing less.

You're wrong. Okay, wow. I remember Prestige doing less. You're wrong. Okay. Wow. I don't know what to tell you. Just, guys, do you know what Neil Berger's next movie is? I just found out. I have no idea. I'm really horrified.

I know what it is. Give me a second. I'm going to fucking tell you. It's an adaptation of something, right? It is, of a French movie. Oh, oh, oh. It's Untouchables. Yeah.

Remember that French movie? Oh, no. Okay. Kevin Hart and Bryan Cranston. No. Oh. Do. Remember that French movie? Okay. Kevin Hart and Bryan Cranston. No. Oh. You hear that? Kevin Hart and Bryan Cranston.

Does not sound good to me. Yeah. Jesus. I'm going to have to see that movie. All right. The Illusionist comes out. Right. So you see the prestige.

I have like three hours to kill. I go to see it. I'm like, I guess it's going to be a bomb. We went to a different story. Don't act like I'm still telling the story. I thought it'd be funny if I said it it was funny five comedy points thanks uh I had some time to kill I was like it's gonna be middling I'll go see this middling movie by a director I really like and I was like in the theater by myself and I was like this movie's great because like an hour in I was like I'm the twin twist I'm ahead of this movie I'm smarter

than sure and then I realized the fucking prestige he's doing I was like uh the twin twist. I'm ahead of this movie. I'm smarter than that. And then I realized the fucking prestige he's doing. I was like, misdirect. And I walked out and I went to anything goes rehearsal. And I was like, you don't understand. It's the best movie ever. Like I was hyped up. It's the greatest film I've ever seen. I was hyped up to everyone and no one else saw it.

I was just like obsessed with this movie all fall. And I just would yell about it to everyone and no one saw it. Right. It was maybe my favorite movie of that year. Sure. It's one of my favorite movies of the year for sure. 2006. Right. It was maybe my favorite movie of that year. Sure. It's one of my favorite movies of the year for sure. 2006. 2006. The year of

I don't know. Yeah. That's the crash best picture year, right? Broke back. No, it's 2005. It's the departed year. Right. So funny. That won best picture. Yeah. Isn't that weird weird it's really weird

that was also a year where they were like anything could win like it was like the five nominees all kind of were perceived as having an equal shot of winning

um yeah it's like Little Miss Sunshine won the PGA and like you look at the top I forgot about that movie doing so well

and then something and then Scorsese won the DGA but everyone thought he was gonna win best director and something else would win best picture let me find out what the other

front runners were you've got Dreamgirls but that had you know that had not even that was the thing at the end of the year

everyone thought it was going to win and then it didn't even get nominated I think some people thought Babel was going to win because it had

or Babel I don't know how I feel like people also thought the Queen could win Queen's a good movie yeah yeah and like

you look at the top five that year it's Dead Man's Chest Da Vinci Code Happy Feet Ice Age The Meltdown like it's a rough

top of the box office Night at the Museum Casino Royale which is a good movie Cars X-Men 3. Is Happy Feet not in that? Happy Feet's number 10.

That's a rough year. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow. A rough year for big movies. And you know, people complain. Like,

they complain about it right now, but like, look at this. Right. Like, take a gander. That was a bad year. Yeah.

Ugh, boy. Anyway, 2006. So yeah, Prestige, it comes out in October. Ah,

I knocked my headphones off. And yeah, it kind. It comes out in October. Ah, I knocked my headphones off. And yeah, it kind of vanishes without a trace. Was kind of shrugged off. Yeah, I feel like the critics were like, we get it, it's the Nolan thing. Sure. Like they didn't give it any specific problem. Messes with time, has a twist.

Christian Bale's doing a voice. And I feel like a lot of people had that sort of dismissal. Like, yeah, I got it. I get it, whatever, you know? And now, I mean, Allison, would you agree with me? I feel like this is like the film critic pick for Christopher Nolan. Oh, I got it I get it whatever you know and now I mean Allison would you agree with me I feel like this is like the film critic pick

for Christopher Nolan oh I don't know if it is or not no maybe not I don't know I don't think there is a consensus I feel like maybe

there's like a little like a group of like online critics who are like yes but I feel like it's still right

a film Twitter's favorite but it's also still like kind of a contrarian pick yeah where everyone's like oh you know what's good it's the still I think kind of a contrarian pick yeah where everyone's like oh you know what's good it's the one movie he made that wasn't

a huge hit don't at me Prestige yeah I mean save for Memento and Following which obviously barely got a release

this is his lowest grossing movie I mean Insomnia did more than this Insomnia I think did better than this and obviously all the other ones are like

huge right but it was made for a pretty good 40 million dollars Insomnia did more than this. Insomnia, I think, did better than this. And obviously all the other ones are like... Huge. Right. Yeah. But it was made for a pretty good $40 million, considering how nice it looks. Yeah. It's pretty nice. Co-production between Warner Brothers and Disney.

Yeah. I forgot that. That this is his only non... It's like Disney was the main... I think Disney had the rights to the book, maybe. Maybe. Because he does that again with Interstellar, where Paramount owned that screenplay.

Right. And he is such a Warner Brothers boy that every time he makes a movie... Yeah, that was a Paramount movie. Right. Yeah, that's right. And one... In that case, Paramount had it domestically.

Warner Brothers had it overseas. With Prestige, Disney had it domestically. Warner Brothers had it overseas. The point is that every time another studio has material he wants, he goes like, yeah, but you got to bring my boy Warner Brothers over with you. You know? You got to bring my boy, the bros, my boys. You got to bring the bros.

He brings the bros. Jack and... People say one thing about Christopher Nolan. He brings the bros. You enjoying this so far, Allison? How are we doing? Warner Bros. Jack and Harry, far Allison how we doing the Warner Bros Jack and uh

Harry Albert and Sam the Warner Bros those were the Warner Bros he brings all four of them there were four of them yeah there were four I always thought there were two

people had a lot of kids back then I know uh you know so yeah here's the prestige so let's talk about it okay do we need to do any other setup I mean he

I feel like he was we already knew Batman 2 was coming yeah and so there was just so much in the middle of his superhero stand. And he makes this quickly because this comes out a year after Batman begins. So it was kind of like, he's going to do a palate

cleanser. He's making himself one of those filmmakers. Yeah, one for me, one for you. That's what it felt like. And then his one for me started like, those started being big as well. Right, right. Even this, $40 million is a pretty big one for me sure yeah but the bigger thing is that his ones for me started being as successful financially right right as his like ones for them this is the last time there has to be that kind of

distinction i think between like oh i'm going back and forth between like blockbusters and personal projects all right now actually let me give you the uh genesis of this sam mendes wanted to make this movie but back when the book came out okay in like 2000 okay uh but then uh he did wasn't interested anymore but his producer brought it over to nolan and nolan got was got into this book when he was promoting memento so he'd had it like for a while and he took it to jonathan his brother and he was like, we should do this. And so they start writing this script. So they had this script ready before he makes Batman Begins.

Before he gets on the WB train, before he starts rolling with the bros. Right. So once he's doing this, he already starts spooling up in the prestige while he's making Batman Begins. That's why it happened so fast, I guess. They had a draft,

and Nathan Crowley starts building sets, or at least pre-vis. And he had two of his big actors now. He's like, I like Bale, I like Kane. Well, according to, look, it's all IMDb and Wikipedia and bullshit, but Bale asked to be in the movie. He didn't

even think about it. But Bale saw the screenplay and was like, I think I could be this guy. And I think the same goes for Jackman. It was like, no one didn't think of these people. They came to him. Interesting. I don't know.

Both these guys are really, really well cast in this movie. They are. It's a really good Hugh Jackman role. Is it the best Hugh Jackman? I mean, he is the Wolverine. Yeah, but I think outside of that, I think this is the best individual performance. It is such a perfect use of him, down to the drunk double.

Yes. Oh, so good. Yes. And another thing, I feel like this is the best American accent he's ever done. I feel like sometimes he goes a little too overboard. There's that thing that happens with British or Australian actors where they over-enunciate in order to sound more American. And this works because he's kind of theatrical

and he's got that mid-Atlantic... They also just do that thing where their voice is kind of more resonant. That's an American accent. David's doing a great showman face and making showman hands. Kate and Leopold. He's British. I can't remember. Is he British and Kate and Leopold. He's British. I can't remember. Is he British

in Kate and Leopold? That's another movie. Yeah, he's a lord. But yeah, because like, Jackman was still struggling. Like, apart from X-Men, you know, his big plays have been like Swordfish and Van Helsing. Those were his only two like, non-X-Men

blockbusters. And then Kate and Leopold was like, him trying to branch out, and someone like you, he's doing rom-coms. That was after the first X-Men. Yes. Leopold was like him trying to branch out and someone like you he's doing rom-coms yes that was after the first X-Men yes I mean yeah none of the other stuff

was really clicking that's a good point and this year this was like Jackman year because he's two voices in both Happy Feet

and Flushed Away never forget and he's in The Prestige The Fountain Scoop and X-Men 3. That is a lot of Jackman.

That's a lot of Jackman. I love The Fountain. Can I just say? I love The Fountain too. It's a great movie. We'll do Aaron Alves at some point. The Fountain is, talk about a blank check. Yes, I've only seen The Fountain once and my story of seeing The Fountain of Tears is the

worst movie going experience I've ever had so I can't really judge whether or not I like the fountain I remember my friend in college coming to me I didn't like the fountain and I was like and we were talking about it and I referenced the fact that the like parts there are parts set in the future and he was like I didn't pick up on that he was like you mean the part

where he's in the bubble and I'm like yeah well yeah sure I thought he was in a bath I didn't know what was happening he you mean the part where he's in the bubble? And I'm like, yeah, well, yeah, sure. I thought he was in a bath. I didn't know what was happening. He was in the bath. I'm going to tell my found story really quickly. I saw it at the Angelica. First, they started playing the wrong movie, right? And so after five minutes.

The Angelica is the worst theater in America. Right. They turned it off. The screen was delayed while they got the right reel into the theater. They started it up. About 45 minutes in, the projector burned through the film like in gremlins 2 like is this part of the design of the movie hey man the fountain too hot yeah lights go back up like in theater radio starts playing we all sit there for like 10-15 minutes then the movie starts up again but with that movie the

way they're jumping around in time we were like we don't know if we've missed a piece of it or if this is right after the burn and then the burn happened again 20 minutes later wow that camera yeah just savage this print seriously i think it was opening day god what a disaster i saw it on friday uh but they wouldn't refund us oh that's a nice touch yeah so i have no idea whether or not i like the fountain. I like the fountain a lot. A lot of people do not like the fountain. No, yeah. That is a movie. That's my kind of Darren Aronofsky.

Yeah, no, it goes very big. What is it? Banskine's Reach? Yes, yeah, exceeds his grasp. Yeah, there you go. But the thing with Jackman was, I mean, like Wolverine, okay, now he's got a franchise. He's got this great kind of character. He Okay, now he's got a franchise. He's got this great character.

He's handsome. He's won a Tony. Right. But he's also a little, he doesn't fit into leading man perfectly. He's a little hammy. He's definitely hammy. He's a little theatrical. Yeah.

He doesn't. He's a showman. He's a showman. He's gesturing. He walks around with his hands like this all the time. Wolverine's the only character where he's figured out how to hold the ham. And other than Wolverine, he needs performances that let him bathe in the river. Yep. In the only character where he's figured out how to hold the ham. And other than Wolverine, he needs performances

that let him bathe in the river. Yep. In the river of ham. Like fucking Les Mis. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? Wolverine, he's pretty stripped down.

And then otherwise, in any other role, if they don't want him to be hammy, it's a problem. Right, because he just drifts that way naturally.

But he's great at it. So what I remember is, you know, X-Men, okay, he's got that on lockdown. You guys are saying you're very excited for The Greatest Showman. Yes. After that trailer, who could not be like finest film ever made?

Yeah. He's got X-Men on lockdown. Van Helsing was like primed to be this big fucking franchise. They were like, it's gonna be a huge, huge thing. Do you know that Van Helsing, they had invested so much money in it

that they paid rent to keep the full town of Transylvania set, constructed on soundstages because they were going to do an NBC primetime series

called Transylvania that was the citizens of the town without Van Helsing. This is like the pre cinematic universe, cinematic universe. This was the start of it.

Yeah, where they were like, will this work? And they don't, they just don't know how start of it yeah where they were like will this work and they just don't know how to do it yet they were gonna do Transylvania the TV show they were gonna have seasons in between

Van Helsing movies to keep the audience's like interest stoked and like three months after Van Helsing came out they were like yeah we just wasted

a bunch of money on rent but then the other thing was he was heavily rumored for James Bond there were a lot of rumors that he was going to get James Bond before

Daniel Craig yeah they made the right choice and Casino Royale comes out the same year as this so this is the year when he's like okay I'm not getting Bond

no Van Helsing's dead in the water I got my one franchise let me find what else I can do as a leading man which is why he did 17 movies he did a lot of movies

yeah and you know he does Australia after this yeah he's working with some big directors and then he hosts the Oscars he hosts the Oscars does a good job yeah He did 17 movies. He did a lot of movies. Yeah. And you know, he does Australia after this. Yeah. He's working with some big directors. And then he hosts the Oscars.

He hosts the Oscars. Does a good job. Yeah. He also hosted the Tonys. A couple times. Which he also does a good job. He's a good host. He's a good host. He's charming.

Yeah. He's a charming dude. Have you ever been over to his place for dinner? No, I've never been over to his place for dinner. So charming. God.

Serves ham, mostly. I saw him in Oklahoma. A lot of ham, a lot of baked hams. He puts the ham down and then show me hands. He's great in Someone Like You, which is an awful movie. Ashley, I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. I watched it on the plane like twice when it was on planes.

Yes. Yeah. You're like, I got it ended and you're like, that was so good. No, we got diverted from Boston to Montreal because of a storm. And then we just sat on the taxi and they were like,

we can't let you off because we're in another country. So they were like, but Hey, the movies, please. So I watched like two movies and then I was like, fuck, I guess I got to watch someone like you again. I'm out of movies.

Like this was not back when they had like 50, you know, now they have 50 movies. Great story from me. Yeah. Four story points. Oh, story points. It's very hot today, guys. We're recording on the weekend. There's no air conditioning.

Yeah, correct. Hey, can you not be a temperature queen for one minute, David? Wow. Wow. But then you look at his filmography after that. Then it's like X-Men, Wolverine in 09. Right. No movies until 2011.

Real steel. Really? Yeah. He disappears from our screens for two years? I mean, he was in X-Men First Class for a second. Oh, yeah. He says, go fuck yourself. What was he doing then? I don't know. Like, what was he up to? He must have

done some shows. He must have treaded the boards. He must have, actually. He didn't have, like, some hobbies. He must have been treading the boards. Like Eric Bana and the race cars or anything. He doesn't have some side thing that he does. Is that what Eric Bana does? I wonder what he's doing. He made a whole movie about his race car. That no one ever watched, right?

No. Yeah, he was in A Steady Rain with Daniel Craig on the Broadway stage. How was it? It was okay. They had some good mustaches in that, right? I remember that. They were playing like cops, right? Yeah, and then that was the one where one time someone's cell phone went off and then

they both just yelled at the person. That sounds great. There was like a YouTube video of them just like in character yelling at the person. The fuck is the hell with you? They're Chicago cops or whatever. They say it in character if you're yelling at them. That's great.

So The Prestige. You want to get us started on The Prestige? Yeah, well the other guy I want to talk about. Let's talk about the two other career arcs in this movie. Scarlett Johansson's in a really weird place at this point. Do you want to talk about it right now? Yeah. I think we should.

Yeah, no, no. Let's do it. Let's do it. Because, you know. Here's Scar Jo. I'm going to give you Scar Jo. Right. I mean, obviously, she's kid.

Kid work, but Ghost World is like what puts her on the map. She's in Ghost World. She's great in that. And then she follows that up with fucking Lost in Translation. No, excuse me. She follows it up with Eight-Legged Freaks. Oh, okay. Excuse me. I'm excused. I saw it in theaters. I'm excused. up with fucking Lawson Translation no excuse me she follows up with eight-legged freaks oh okay excuse me

I'm excused I saw it in theaters I'm excused uh Lawson Translation and Guape Guape I call it

girl with a pearl in her just to save some time and so everyone's like right exactly Guape you know Guape

uh then she's she's got a Hugh Jackman-esque 2006 in 2004 right the perfect score the perfect score a love song for Bobby Long

oh no oh bad a good woman I don't even remember what that is I think it was with Helen Hunt yeah it's like a period play

yeah that movie whatever and In Good Company aka Synergy I remember that that's a weird movie that doesn't exist anymore

I kind of like it it's charming it's a cute little movie kind of good soundtrack is it a whites did one of the whiteses make one it's a Paul whites

there you go and then she's also a voice in Spongebob Squarepants she's very good in that she is I agree actually and then in 05 she's got Match Point

which everyone is hyping is like a good movie which it's not it's a terrible movie. And The Island, which is also bad. And a flop. Is it a flop? Yeah.

A huge flop. It's Bay's only flop. Right, where Bay left the, you know, the Bruckheimer coop and he made this movie. It's a Disney movie? Am I correct? It's DreamWorks, because Spielberg's the one who brought him over. Spielberg was like, come to me, boy. Come to me, boy. Come to me boy come to me boy

come to me boy and then so in 06 so like at this point I feel like the island bombing people are like oh she's not a star A she's definitely

not like a movie star and B she hasn't picked a good project really since Lost in Translation maybe we bet on the wrong horse but people did

kind of think Match Point was good at that time and I feel like she was close. She boned him in a hayfield or whatever. She was close to getting an Oscar nom. She got a Golden Globe nom. But people were into that performance. Yeah, they were.

And she got a Golden Globe nom for a love song for Bobby Long. Don't forget. Let's not talk about that. I would rather forget that. Someone just bought that. You know, they just like a suitcase of cash and then. It's just crazy. A love song for Bobby Long.

That was the one year where they added a new category that was best performance by a leading actress in a love song for Bobby Long. Best Bobby Long love song. And she didn't win. That's the weird thing. I know. And then so this year she has Scoop

and then she has The Black Dahlia. Yeah. Which is also a huge bomb. Not a terrible movie, a flawed movie. And then The Prestige. And she doesn't really get a hit. The next year is The Nanny Diaries. Yeah.

And then 08, it's Other Bling Girl and The Spirit, and you're like, uh-oh. But then she's in Vicky Cristina Barcelona, which is a sizable, sort of well-received movie. That's my favorite Woody of that decade. Sure.

And then he's just not that into you. It's rough. It's rough. And then Iron Man 2, like it really was, and then we bought a zoo. Yeah. It really was the Avengers

that turned her around. Because she's not great in Iron Man 2. I mean, that character's poorly written, but it's like in Avengers, suddenly that character's figured out.

Right. Right. Yeah. But it was Avengers turned it around. Well, there was just like a long period where

I think no one knew what to do with her. She ended up, I mean, in this movie, she's in this kind of like weird third tier role where she's. But she's like third building. They promoted her a lot. Yeah. She was like the it girl, but it's not a very good character. No.

And it like there are three female characters in this. Yeah. Like one dies right away. Right. Yes. Poor Piper. One dies eventually. Yes. Poor Becca. And I think that's the best of the three roles. Yeah. Like one dies right away. Right. Yes. Poor Piper. One dies eventually. Yes.

Poor Becca. And I think that's the best of the three roles. Yeah. For sure. But like they're all, I mean, they're all roles that have,

like they're literally just built around what happens to these two main characters. Yes. I mean, that's the point of them, right?

Yes. Is that like they're just buffeted around by these guys who can't turn away from each other. Right. So they're not,

none of them are that rich as roles. No. And it's almost distracting to have Scarlett Johansson in one of those roles because the roles are kind of insubstantial.

But she's sort of like, you know, this ingenue who's supposed to be like, oh, tempting both men or whatever. But the movie is not interested in that.

Like, Nolan is not, clearly not very interested in that. I'd also argue. But there's like a way you could sell, I don't know. My whole take on Scarlett Johansson

was that like, you know, she was really good in ghost world and lost in translation playing these weird kind of outsider girls who were disaffected right but were very beautiful but the movies didn't really sexualize her she's so i just re-watched ghost world she is she's amazing really terrific and then she's really phenomenal in that but then everyone was like oh but she's beautiful right like she's not just that though she's like sensual that's the thing right is that she's like this sex bomb right she's got a body she's sort of like Marilyn Monroe or whatever she's got a husky voice so then they tried to ingenue her and she never wears that well no she never does never no anytime she's asked to be sexual in a movie she's not comfortable yeah unless it's like unless it's like uh under the

skin or something that like oh sure right right right but that's the whole point is it's like under the skin or something that like, you know, turns it around. Right, right, right. But that's the whole point is it's like an alien version of that. Yeah, she likes playing weird like Bronx broads. Yes. Like Don John or like Hail Caesar. She gets a kick out of that. Yeah, you know, but I think like that was the kind of the thing that did her in for a long time there was I think she may be.

She was very young. I mean, because she was like, what, 20, 21 in Lost in Translation. She's only 32 now. Yeah. She's two years older than me. Yeah. So she was like 21 in this. She was like 19 in Lost in Translation.

Right. That's crazy. And she's like actually 17 in Ghost World. Yeah. Yeah. So I think she just got caught up in this whirlwind and everyone's like this is what you are and she was like OK.

And for nine years everyone kept on misusing her. Yeah. This is unfortunate. Yeah. Scar Jo. Well she's had a rough

year. I remember this year. Yeah. Yeah. She'll rebound though. I mean next year she's got the Wes Anderson movie and Avengers

three. Right. I just remember like walking out of this movie and being like I think she's done. Yeah. I think that thing Avengers 3. Right. I just remember walking out of this movie and being like, I think she's done. I think that thing's over. Sure. But she was young. That's the thing. She was young. She still had a lot of time to figure it out.

She's terrible in this movie. She's really bad in this movie. She is. She's quite bad. Easily the weakest part of this movie. No question. The rest of this cast is great. Everyone else is good. Piper, is it Parabo or Parabo? I think it's Parabo. Parabo.

Yeah. She's pretty good. She's an actress I think is really underrated. I think so too. She's always been underrated. She seemed like she should have been famous and then she never quite broke through. She is gorgeous.

She hit really hard at first. She had that summer where she was the lead of like three movies and then all of them didn't do that well. I just can remember Coyote Ugly and Rocky and Bullwinkle. She's the lead of Rocky and Bullwinkle. That movie is a catastrophe.

And then I think maybe those were the two but they came out within like a month of each other. Right and then she made that like sort of like cheesecake-y lesbians at boarding school drama with Misha Barton and Jessica Perret which is called Lost and Delirious which is like. Right. Which is called Lost and Delirious, which is like the most anonymous movie.

Like Lost and Delirious. Which is, I think, became like, you know, because there's not a lot of like lesbian coming of age dramas. So it just sort of became slightly canonical anyway. It also had people who went on to become more famous. And so it has that surreal thing where you look

back and you're like, they're all in this movie and then there's that movie where she plays like a French girl with a beret it's called like Slapper She's French which was like

on the shelf for like five years that was one of those weird movies that kept on being retitled and re-edited I can't believe we're doing Piper Perra

and then Cheaper by the Dozen you know yeah it was a hit I don't know what to say. She just goes nowhere. She ended up on one of those USA shows that ran for five seasons. I actually watched a few.

Yeah. That was the one with Peter Gallagher, right? Yeah. Yes. I don't remember. I think so. I don't know. They're all the same.

Yes, they are all the same. I saw her on Broadway like five years ago. She was amazing. Yeah, she's good. I think she does a lot of season. She was in Reasons to Be Pretty. Sure, Neil O'Bute. Yeah.

Boo. Agreed. Agreed. But my mom and I saw that because that was like Thomas Sadowski's coming out moment. And he had gotten

these crazy good reviews. Was that, I saw that with Marin Ireland, I think. Yes, the two of them were in it. Yeah, yeah. Right, Marin Ireland

plays Sadowski's girlfriend. Right, right, right. And Piper Parable plays his best friend's girlfriend. No, I saw that as well. She was like phenomenal. I remember being like, why didn't she have a career? I don't know. I don't know.

She's really charismatic. She's quite charismatic. Which is something that I think that, you know, sometimes when you get treated as a sex object in movies, movies don't ask you to do much. And I think she is very like alive on screen. Yes, definitely. She's just like someone you want to watch. She's very vivid and she does have this kind of old movie star face. She's got this very expressive

kind of very unique look. I mean she makes that character who is literally on screen to die she makes her memorable. The idea that the rest of the movie kind of hinges on her in a lot of ways. She makes it work. The idea that the rest of the movie kind of hinges on her in a lot of ways actually makes it work.

You're totally right. Well, those were the three career arcs I wanted to talk about. The other thing with this movie is that this is the moment where it feels like... She's also in Looper. Oh, right. She plays another Looper. Yeah, but barely in Looper, right? Yes, I think so, because I barely remember her. I need to watch that one again.

She plays the stripper. Oh, great. The thing I remember coming out of this was like, oh, Bale's now figured out what his movie star persona is, which is guys who are just fucking obsessed and methodical. Agro, cockney. Right. Weirdly muscular, obsessive guys you would never want to sleep with like he's just like I won't be

a romantic like ever well it's like his thing was imagine him in a romcom impossible he's also said he'll never make a romcom

he knows he knows but I remember coming out of this movie and being like okay here's the place that Christian Bale is going to occupy

in like big budget cinema is a more intellectual less sexual Tom Cruise way less sexual that's what he is you know who can actually also like do accents and do like has like craft but that same kind of thing where you want to see the character

obsessively pursuing something in like a smaller scale and then it felt like that's what Hollywood tried to make him in like Public Enemies and Terminator they were like can we apply that to other block tried to make him in like Public Enemies and Terminator they were like can we apply that to other blockbusters he is phenomenal in Public Enemies that is my favorite Christian Bale performance really yes

I love him in that movie I think he's great in that movie he would be an Oscar nominee for me for that one my two favorite performances of his are The New World which is the biggest outlier in his career because it's the one movie in which he's just charming and light he He's quite good in that. Yeah, yeah.

And this, I think, is like the best of the obsessive Bale. Sure. But then what ends up happening is- Ray Winstead accent. Yeah. Those movies don't totally work for one reason or another. And then his thing ends up being like, he's gotten three Oscar noms in one win, all from working with comedy directors playing comedic parts.

It's funny, but playing them full hilt. Where he's like, I'm putting on weight. I'm going to fuck with my eye. But there are three comedic performances. Yeah. Which is odd for him because it was like, this guy's got no sense of humor. He doesn't play them like

comedy. No, he doesn't. That's why they work, right? He plays them totally straightforward. But all three of those characters are funny. I mean, they play as funny when watching the movie. Or disturbing. I would say the fighter not so much, just because I think that character's really funny. It's a very

sad character. It's entertaining. It's a sad character. I mean, American Hustle's I guess he's, yeah, he's funny. I hate that movie. I know you do. He's funny in that movie. Have you heard about these future ovens? Science ovens. We did this two years ago on this very podcast. Did I fuck it up that time too?

Yeah, you fucked it up that time too. Good callback then. Great callback. Thank you. And then the big short, I think he's so good in that. He's great. Not my favorite movie, but I like what he's doing. I don't like that movie.

I think he's very good in that. He's the bit I like. Not Steve Carell. He's annoying like that movie. I think he's very good in that. He's the bit I like. Other, not, poor Steve Carell. Yeah, yeah. Annoying in that movie.

Yeah. IMO. See, because I think that's a movie where he's playing it like he's in a comedy. Right. Versus Bale,

who I think is playing it like he's in a drama, which makes him funny. Yeah. Okay, so in the fucking Prestige. Oh yeah. She's like,

let's start with poor Piper. They're two little working magicians. They work for Ricky Jay. Well, first, Michael Caine tells you the entire movie.. Oh, yeah. She's like, let's start with poor Piper. They're two little working magicians. They work for Ricky Jay. Well, first, Michael Caine tells you the entire movie. Right, he does. Right, of course, it starts in media rest. The first image is the twist. It tells you the twist, yeah.

Which is the beauty of this movie. Yeah, agreed. It puts everything out there right away. They show you the twist ending. They show you Jackman drowning in the sea. Are you watching closely? Right. Yes.

Then Michael Caine explains how the structure of the movie is going to work yes that you're going to pay attention to the wrong part and think that you figured it out but it's actually this yep

which is totally what I did when I was a teenager right this movie is for closers right uh huh and then cross cut with that you see

you know Christian Bale sneaking backstage going in seeing Hugh Jackman die being framed there at the wrong moment yeah this movie is giving you like cut with that you see you know christian bale sneaking backstage going in seeing hugh jackman die being framed there at the wrong moment yeah he's giving you like in classic christopher nolan fashion like five temporalities within the first five years he loves the temporality so it's like court case yeah you got the court case but right you're also flashing to the actual

death right and then you're also then there's Michael Caine Hugh Jackman on the train reading the notebook right he's off to see Tesla yeah and then when he's Michael Caine whatever time period that's in which is like

when his daughter the daughter's grown but like you can't tell otherwise right and he's doing tricks for her yeah he's doing the bird and also

which is also like is like a key part of the movie that you don't understand how important it is yeah right Michael Caine is also terrific in this movie. He's really good.

I feel like this is really, because he's great in Batman Begins doing his thing, but I think this is where Nolan locks into him being like, you need to explain all my movies on screen. Right, where he's like, oh, my movies don't work without this guy. Right, everyone's confused. Also, he is ultimately the most likable person.

Oh, 1,000%. Which is something that I love about this movie is how both of them are kind of... Part of the point of this movie is how obsessing over something starts to chip away at your humanity. Yes. And he's the one who actually has moral concerns.

He does. He tries to do the right thing. Well, and there's this thing. Obsession is a very popular theme in movies because most directors are very obsessive and a lot of directors tend to make their best films about obsession. Finding a character who works as an analog for them, striving for this ideal of perfection that they can never reach.

And also, right. And this is a movie broadly about art, right? Yeah. And like, you know, the varying ways in which it can be presented. About performance. About performance and about dressing something up and like, you know. But it's not real. An idea not being everything

to, you know, get success is, you know. Right, that's the thing. Like, Zodiac and Lost City of Z are both movies that function that same kind of way, but minus the performance element. I love those movies. Which makes, I do too. But that makes this movie a better reflection of Christopher Nolan's instincts because it is. His whole thing is he loves being able to, like,

have the audience in the palm of his hands. Right. have them confused lead them into the light make everything make sense hey look here it is and I think the moment that's like the most telling jumping way ahead is when Hugh Jackman is underneath the floorboards while the applause is happening

he does the bow underneath that's kind of like the director's life in a nutshell yeah for 100 million you know it's like you're just sitting there people are enjoying That's kind of like the director's life in a nutshell. Yeah. For 100 million. Yeah, absolutely. It's like you're just sitting there. People are enjoying your thing and you're just kind of in the shadows somewhere. Oh, they like it.

Yeah. And if they clap, it's not probably going to be for you. No, no, no. No, not at all. Yeah. I also just love that. Yeah. When the just along the just on that line.

Yeah. When the what's the drunk called whatever the drunken Hugh Jackman when he comes out and he just does the like the movements and they're like oh it's him like how did you do it and it's like come on Nolan's got a little bit of

like that's a that's pretty cute for a director to have a scene like that yeah about acting yeah he's like look I can do it if you want me to do it. It's fine. That's it, yeah. Anyway. But yes, yes.

It's about art and it's about obsession. Sacrifice and obsession. A lot of when directors make their obsession movies, it's like, this is what I could have become if I didn't keep myself in line.

Like, I feel like those movies are always the alternate reality of like, Fincher could have become Gray Smith. Sure. You know? Yeah, like with card catalogs in his basement. I mean, I feel like he's are always the alternate reality of like, Fincher could have become Gray Smith. Sure. Yeah, like with card catalogs in his basement. I feel like he's kind of close already anyway.

Yes, 100%. That's why he needs to make World War Z 2. Really bring him to his mouth. Crashing down the earth. Crashing down the ground. Yes. I hear that movie's secretly a comedy though. World War Z 2.

I would love nothing more. Do you think the zombies know they're in a movie? It's really a comedy if you're paying attention. Is Pit going to be in that? I saw that movie. I don't remember if Pit dies. I'd love nothing more. Do you think the zombies know they're in a movie? It's really a comedy if you're paying attention. Is Pit going to be in that? I saw that movie. I don't remember if Pit does. I hope.

It'd be so funny if Pit's not in it. He lives. He lives. That's the only reason Fincher's doing that movie is as a Pit. It has to be.

One of Zoom's. Yeah, right. I can't wait to hear what his fucking take is on that. Whether it's good or bad, whatever makes him want to do that movie is going to be so weird.

Yeah. But I agree with you. Neither character is likable. They're both deliberately alienating. Yes. Even though I think the movie does end with this sort of note of like, well, Christian Bale in the end was the

Mozart and Hugh Jackman was the Salieri or whatever but I still find the Bale character like so monstrous well but also the first hour of the movie I think

at least they try to present Jackman to you as being likable he goes through tragedy because in the first right the first half

Bale is you know he dies at the you know at the end like all this stuff the crucial thing is Kane really does think he's dead

yeah like that's another reason like he's dead. Yeah. Like, that's another reason. Like, he's not tricking us. He plays things close to the chest. Yes. Because they can't, when they do their worst thing,

they can't let Kane's cutter, that's his name, into it. Because they, like you say, he's the moral force. Gotta keep your hands clean. Yeah. But we also, we see that he ties the knot.

He ties the knot that is responsible for Piper Parabell dying. Yes, yes. You know, like, we see it. Why does he tie the knot. He ties the knot that is responsible for Piper Parable dying. Yes, yes. You know, like, we see it. Why does he tie the fucking knot?

Well, like, I think it's interesting that, like, throughout the movie when he keeps being like, you know, I don't know if I did it or not.

And Hugh Jackman thinks he's just being a jackass. And you're like, no, he's two people and they're fighting over whether they did this because one of them

doesn't know. You know? Why did he tie that knot? Because he thinks he knows better. That's the other thing that makes him so unlikable in the first chunk of the movie is he's so arrogant. He's so brash. Yeah. It is this like Bale character where it's like he's so unconcerned with charisma or showmanship.

But one of them is more unconcerned than the other one. Right? Correct. That's the thing I love about this this bail performance is he actually does establish differences between the two of them especially if you're watching relatively subtle right they're relatively sold but i also i swear to god one of the two characters is five pounds heavier than the other one i've never gotten confirmation on this i swear to god if you track the movie he's like wearing a little more padding or something no his face is fatter i swear bill's got a fat face well

i also wouldn't put it past him to do that. I think he did that. He would do that. I think he fucking did that. Yeah. And I've never gotten confirmation, but I think Bale went to him and was like, can I have stuff at the beginning and stuff at the end? Yeah, so I can put on some weight.

And have a couple weeks where I can gain five pounds. I could absolutely believe it. Because, yeah, you can. Especially re-watching this, I was like, you can see the two different twins very clearly. Yes. You can. Yeah. Yes. I mean, A, performance styles. B, I think their the two different twins very clearly. Yes, you can. Yeah.

Yes. I mean, A, performance styles. B, I think their voices are a little bit different. One of them's lighter than the other one in terms of like, one of them makes more jokes. Right, one of them is just a little more fun to be around. Right, one of them is a little more gruff. And one of them, I think, has a rounder face. And it doesn't feel prosthetic. Griffin's conspiracy theory.

Yeah, which I also love because it makes me watching the movie feel like Hugh Jackman losing my mind but like also we haven't talked about this but Bale auditioned for Batman Begins in his machinist way

right and Nolan was like he was like 85 pounds right Nolan was like well you're great for the part but we have to film

in nine months and you look like this and he's like give me six weeks and he comes back don't worry too big he came back fat he famously came back and Nolan was like give me six weeks and he comes back too big yeah he came back fat he

famously came back and nolan was like too much yeah how what did he do i don't know he like eat he's gonna die he's gonna die he gained i can't be good for you he gained 100 pounds he went from 130 to 230 and then was like now i got my mass and then dropped down to 190 because nolan was like you're you're large. You're too large. You have to be a little more live. Yeah, because even in Batman Begins when he's doing like the shirtless fighting scenes at the ninja temple, he's like bulky. Yeah, he's a bulky one. For the Dark Knight movies, he's like, he is live. He's kind of sinewy.

But I truly think he gained weight for one of these two characters. Which is like, it's one of those things, the way I talk about Tom Hanks, where it's like great to watch Tom Hanks, a guy who's good at his job, play people who are good at their job. It's great to watch Christian Bale destroy himself playing people who obsessively destroy themselves. But he's good at it because I feel like a lot of actors do this bullshit and it's annoying. Yeah. Well, it's so like you want to be patted on the back for being right look at my commitment to this look at what i'm doing it's usually very male i mean it's uh yes well i mean that's i mean it's part of the reason why when you watch him do the first version of the the transported man trick and he's bad at it yeah you're like i i think you

can see that indifference in times to actually pleasing the audience yes yes yes that speaks to him like he doesn't really care about that part well yes the rosetta stone with i love that you don't even see the the fucking trick the first time they show that he like cuts because he's like look it doesn't even matter it doesn't matter but it's like right it's like angier is like you know someone who goes sees i don't know what's the equivalent like a bad concert i don't know like but they're he's like no but these guys are brilliant if they just figure yeah concert. I don't know, but he's like, no, but these guys are brilliant if they just figure it out. He's like shaken.

Yeah, he's like, this is the most incredible trick I've ever seen and no one even understands. The Rosetta Stone with Bale for me is, he's got some- I guess it's like Amadeus.

Right, it's like Salieri. I was going to say Bale as an actor. No, no, go ahead. Right, the thing is, I think it's, he's got the complex that a lot of former child actors do where they want to be taken seriously.

But a lot of child actors do that by acting adult, trying to be extreme. Like Jared Leto. Right. I've read a lot of interviews with him where he just says, I think it's a really silly profession. I think it's gross how much money we get paid for it. I think celebrity is a weird concept. So if I'm going to have all these benefits, I want to know I'm doing enough work to feel like it's justified. So he like obsessively wants to do the work to make it feel like he deserves this. Right. So it feels like with him,

there's not that level of posturing that a lot of the like methody guys have because he's not bragging about it. And he also admits the only reason I'm doing this is because it feels goofy like he's not going like look at how serious an actor I am he's like this whole job is ridiculous so if I'm not putting this much into it I feel like I'm slacking off and it feels like that's the bar he keeps on setting for himself so it comes

from just this insane obsession that makes it like more engaging to watch than when it's just like fuck I get it I see what you're doing. I like what you said. Yeah. And it feels very in line with this character who's just like, there has to be a better version of this.

You know? There has to be a better way to do this, like a pure way to do this. Pure. Yeah, yeah. He wants it to be pure. Because Jackman is like, he just wants to put on a great show.

He wants to entertain people. He wants to give applause at the end, yeah. As he says right at the end of the movie, right? He's like, it was about their faces. I like their faces. And Bale's all about technical skill. It's just about, like, can I get to the point where it doesn't even look like I'm doing anything?

Right, can I be the best? Can I be the best at it? Yeah. Even if they don't know it. Right. God, they're both so well cast in this. Yeah, I know, it's perfect. It's really, I think that's just one of the things

that makes it work so well, is how it feeds into who both of them seem to be as actors. And even more so in the 11 years since this movie's come out. The movie's gotten more powerful because of how their legacies have continued. It's true. Jackman does

seem to be chasing our smiles a little more than total vermissilitude or whatever. You know. Well, I mean, like when Bale in this movie like goes off on one of his kind of like sulky tantrums, you're like, I'm like Christian Bale. What do you fucking understand?

Yeah. Did I tell the thing I heard about the DP on Terminator? That he sucks. Yeah. You told us off mic. I can't remember if it was on mic. Okay. Can you say the Brendan Fraser story on mic?

Because that's a fascinating story. If you don't want to. I don't know. Oh. All right. Tell her off mic. All right. That really blew my mind.

I might tell it later. Yeah. It's a really good story. It's really good. Really good. I might tell it on another episode. That's a tease. Okay.

That's the pledge. So they're magicians. They work for Ricky Jay. Yeah. Yeah. Poor Ricky Jay also gets to be the hack in this movie. Like the greatest magician alive. Leave Ricky Jay alone.

He's the illusionist as well, right? Every magic movie needs to have the perfunctory Ricky Jay. He's always your magic consultant. Always. Because he knows about the history of magic. He's got the biggest library. He understands everything. Ricky Jay's pretty cool.

He is, of course. I mean, like... He's hanging out with him and having him throw playing Ricky Jay's pretty cool. He is, of course. Imagine just hanging out with him and having him throw playing cards into the wall. Into watermelons? Yeah. It's so crazy. When I can't fall asleep at night, I watch Ricky Jay videos. I find Ricky Jay very calming. No, he seems very soothing.

He's got a great, like, exactly, a soothing presence. But I've watched, like, every video of Ricky Jay on YouTube at least six times. It is funny. Because I haven't saw him. Right. He was in the Great Buck funny. Because I haven't saw him. Right. He was in The Great Buck Howard. He was in The Brothers Bloom. He's in so many like entertainer movies.

There's another one I'm trying to remember where he's good in it. Well, he also plays Captain Amazing's manager in. In Magnolia. Mystery Man. Not Magnolia. He is in Magnolia. He's in State Main. He's in Deadwood.

He was so good in Deadwood. Oh, he was amazing at Deadwood. He was so fucking good. I like him a lot as an actor. Yeah. But he plays a hack in this. He's a shitty magician in the beginning of the film.

Right, that they work for. They're like shills for him. They're plants. Yeah, they're plants. Their job is to be the audience volunteers that tie the knots on Hugh Jackman's wife,

Piper Parable. He keeps kissing her leg because he can't resist her leg. It's never really explained. It seems odd to me that she had to do the really dangerous escape trick. She's like the assistant, basically, on stage and yet she has to do the hardest trick.

And you never see an assistant do anything complicated. I mean, I guess they saw women in half and that's alluded to all the usual crap. This character sucks. The Ricky Jay character is a shitty magician. He's like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Batman and Robin. He's like,

I have my stand in there. But I do love that you have Kane off stage with an axe. And a pocket watch. And the watch. He times it. That's what you need, Michael. That's what Michael Kane does

in Christopher Nolan movies. He's like standing there with an axe. Even days where he's not in the scene. He's just waiting around. Yeah. Off camera in case something starts getting muddled and then he like pumps the watch and walks

on screen and explains the movie. So she dies. Yes. This is the inciting incident of the film. Right. They're arguing at the beginning of the movie about what kind of knot is best and Christian Bale some nights thinks that there's a better knot. And Bale's like or Kane is like doesn't fucking matter just do the

not do the not you're told to do and you also that early scene where they they go to see the Chinese magician who does the crazy curtain tricks I love the one scene where they're kind of both just these young magicians who just like love watching other people's movies I almost want more of it

because they are sweet but that is right like the want more of it. Because they are sweet. But that is right. The point of the movie is that they are each other's soulmate in the most twisted way possible. No one else in their life is more important than this person they try to destroy. They're the two people who fucking love magic this much. Because that's the whole thing about

the transported man. He's showing it to an audience that's like, oh, he's over there now. Great. And Jackman's like, that was so good. He's like the only man. He's showing it to an audience that's like, oh, he's over there now. Great. And Jackman's like, that was so good. He's like the only one. His real audience is just this one guy. For each of them, all they really want is for the other one to see their transported man and go like, that's

the best trick I've ever seen. You're right. You did it right. Because even Michael Caine, when he sees it, he's like, oh, he's got a double. I mean, again, like you said about the prestige, it's like, how do you do it? Michael C he's like, oh, he's got a double. Yeah. I mean, that's the, I mean, again, like you said about the prestige, it's like, how do you do it? Michael Caine's like, oh, he doesn't, has a double. Questions answered.

He says what it is. It's amazing rewatching this movie. The first hour, they tell you 80 times. What the movie is, what's going to happen. They keep on saying it. But Jackman goes to Colorado and he's like, you know, what's the secret? To David Bowie. But that's how I'll be, David Bowie. And it's like, know what's the secret to David Bowie yes

but that's how I'll be David Bowie and it's like Michael Caine already told you that's the last line of the movie people don't want to know they want to be fooled

and the whole movie he keeps on saying well there's two of them he keeps saying it in how he frames stuff and how he shoots stuff the fact that Fallon never has a fucking line

no I know and it's like yeah right and it's always just sitting around often not fully like his face not being shown. He doesn't let you see his face for more than a second at a time. No it's always. But it's done so

showily. It is. It calls attention to the fascist. Especially since everyone else in the movie is played by a goddamn acting legend. Like even Roger Reese shows up to like say five lines you know like and so it's like oh yeah who plays Christian Bale's guy I don't know Jimmy no name. That's how I remember cracking in the theaters was I said, like, there's no

way that's not somebody. So who's that guy playing Fallon, you know? We were similar people and that's how I was too. I was like, I know the billing. Is it Eddie Marzen? Like, who is it? It's going to be someone like that. Could be Eddie Marzen. It could have been. Yeah, yeah. And the cuts were so quick. I kept on being like, why are they not giving us a look at him? It has to be for a

reason. Yeah. And then you start to realize, okay, it's a guy in makeup. His face looks prosthetic. And of course, Michael Caine is saying he has a double. But you know what

Eddie Marzen isn't? Of what? The illusions. Ooh. The greatest trick of all. He transported into the other movie. Yeah, exactly.

No, but it does, you know, I remember feeling like you not as angry about it but just being like okay i got it it's the it's the twin thing it's the brother thing that's what's going on here now i'm just gonna enjoy a well-made movie i know where the twist is i know where it's coming i never try to guess twist i don't know how i watch movies either but i feel like looking at the twin thing is the twist is like the wrong way to look at this movie right i looked at it wrong that's the whole point of the twist is like the wrong way to look at this movie, right? I looked at it wrong.

That's the whole point of the movie is he's making you look at this hand and then the other hand. You're like, look at this horrible, grotesque thing. The final reveal. I think also the first time I saw this movie, and this maybe was a reaction other people shared, I don't know, was like, I was like, wait, so Tesla created a machine that clones people? Yeah. And I was just like- It's an incredibly powerful machine, really.

It's like being totally misused. Exactly. And I'm like, wait, that's- It can create matter. That's definitely what it is. It defies the laws of thermodynamics. It completely defies any law. But he also knows it's a bad idea.

No, he totally knows it's a bad idea. And I was so wrapped up in it. And of course, the ultimate trick, as he says when he's doing a trick where he's like, this is magic, it's science. I'm like, oh wait. Look, I was an idiot. Sometimes you're stupid in college. Sometimes you're stupid in college.

They should put that on a fucking t-shirt. And I'm so obsessed. We'll talk about the machine later. Okay. So she dies. She drowns. Her name is Julia. Julia. So she she dies. She drowns. Her name is Julia. Julia.

Yeah. Piper Parable. And they've had this night where they went to the show together where they saw the old man with the fishbowl. Yeah.

I just love that. He must be a real magician. There was a real magician. And then there was a white guy who basically stole his act.

Jesus. He lived in character as a Chinese person, which then becomes the basis for Colin Firth and that Woody Allen movie. Boy. Full circle.

I was hoping you were going to that. Full circle. God. Woody Allen made two magician movies in the last 10 years. He likes magician movies. One of them featuring Yellowface. One of them featuring a recent Oscar winner emerging in his first scene in Yellowface.

And you're like, ah. Right. And having sex with a near teenager they don't have sex they don't no don't they end up together they do

they end up together definitely they will have sex I mean they have they're gonna have a little magic in the moonlight that movie

that movie is pretty bad I would agree with that maybe they do have sex I don't fucking remember but Bale Bale has that line where they're watching him

go to his carriage and he goes that's it it has to be a fishbowl between the knees and he goes I'm looking at him he stays in remember but Bale has that line where they're watching him go to his carriage and he goes that's it it has to be a fishbowl between the knees and he goes I'm looking at me stays in character and Bale says

like like he's always devotion to the craft that's the thing he's like that's the performance right there that's the part that matters yeah and he's blown away and Jackman

is kind of like me as David sit where I'm like that's a lot of work right you have to do that so what I love about it is Bale saying this can't there be a machine Bale saying this and the first time you're watching the movie you feel like that's a lot of work. Right. You have to do that. What I love about it is Bale saying this. Can't there be a machine?

Bale saying this and the first time you're watching the movie you feel like that's the movie calling it shot. Like now that's what this guy's going to do. Sure.

But in reality this guy's been doing that for years already. Like he's reaffirming what he's already the sacrifice he's made that it's worth it. Yeah.

Because he knows. Yeah. It's also impressive that he takes that long, when you think of it, to actually do this trick he has been preparing his whole life for. Because he's referring to it right from the beginning. He's like, it's not ready.

Transportive man. It's coming. But I think the thing is, he's like, I need to do it on the right stage. If I blow it too early, it's like my career has to build up to this. I need to do this at the moment when I have the right amount of eyes on me. You know, it's sort of like, you know, it's like a director saying like, this is my dream project, but I can't make this until I have a couple movies under my belt.

I need the experience to be able to adapt this or make this script on the right budget. You know, like prestige. And yet when he does it the first time, it is that really underwhelming with the ball. I love how underwhelming it is. That scene is maybe my favorite in the movie. Agreed. Do you think he was like,

how do I crack it? And then finally he was like, I know, a ball. A ball. And his persona, the professor is so terrible. It sucks. He's so bad.

He's so bad at that part of magic. But then when he humiliates the great Danton Like, he's so bad. He's so bad. He's so bad at that part of magic. But then, when he humiliates the great Danton later, he's pretty good then. He's a lot better. He is. Right.

He's a good roast comedian. He's like, ah! Yeah, no, and he's got the big mustache. Uh-huh. Yeah, right. He's finally figured it out

a little bit. Right, because I was looking at those character posters and it says, like, you know, Hugh Jackman is the great Danton. Good fucking name. And then the other one says Christian Bman is the great Dan Tana good fucking name

and then the other one says Christian Bale is the professor and I was like before I rewatched the movie I was like he's the professor? That's his fucking persona?

But no he is Alfred Borden Yes Sometimes Freddy Sometimes Borden That's another thing you see when he corrects people

which thing to call him Right One of them goes by Borden Moore. One of them goes by Alfred Moore. And Hugh Jackman is Robert Angier. Yes. Yes. Lord Cal...

Was it Lord Caldwell? Caldlow. Caldlow. Caldlow. Caldlow. He's had to change his name because his family's embarrassed. Yes. And Piper suggests the great D'Antoni.

A little foofy. Then she dies. So he sticks with him. And now now he's got something to prove. But interspersed with all this is yes

you see Robert going to Colorado to find Tesla. Reading his notebooks trying to find Tesla. The inventor of alternating current who is being besieged.

Like the the D plot in this movie is that Edison's after him. Well that's it. Like they are other two rival, like one who's like better, who's got the better product,

but it's like worse at showmanship. And the other is like, uh, chasing around. Right. And he's going to win. He's going to win. And yeah,

because that's the thing. Like Tesla's invented the coolest fucking thing in the world. But his idea is like, what if I just put it in a stage and turn it on? Everyone's like, this thing's terrifying. Like I can't deal with this. And then he won't show up to explain it.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, yeah right yeah yeah right and when he and when I mean Bowie's great yeah he's yeah if anyone's going to be like a wizard scientist on a mountain like David what incredible that's the one Nolan went to my mountain lab very good thank you like because I think

like I said like Jackman and Bale almost pursued the roles but Nolan I think like went said like Jackman and Bale almost pursued the roles but Nolan I think like went to a pilgrimage to Bowie and was like you are the only person I have in mind

because he hadn't done a real movie in a while he'd done like playing himself in Zoolander for a scene but I feel like this was his first like dramatic performance in a long time

first since basically since Basquiat Basquiat I mean he is in like Everybody Loves Sunshine. I've never heard of that. It's some British indie movie that never came out.

Yeah. It's basically his first since he played Warhol in Basquiat. One of the better Warhol. Who are other... I mean, Guy Pearce, Bill Hader. Yeah. Trying to think of Warhols. Who plays him in I Shot Any Warhol?

Jared Harris? He's good. Haven't seen that movie in a long time. Yeah. Anyway. Tesla. Yeah, right. So he's going to Tesla.

We don't totally know why at this point. No. And he's reading Bale's diary. Right. Right. And Bale is reading his diary, right? Yes. Yes.

Because we also have Bale in prison. Right. Bale is in prison and he's reading. Yeah. They're both reading each other's diaries. With the effects of the man he murdered. Both of which they have written knowing that the other will read it. Like you say, they love each other.

They love each other. They really just want to be with each other. This movie has two unreliable narrators. Like most of the story is being told to characters. Three. Because Cutter doesn't know that the trick wasn't real. It was real. What a crazy fucking movie.

I know. And I think that's one reason it maybe put people off. And I also think the fact that it's doing Nolan's favorite thing of sort of moving time around. And Batman Begins does it

where it's like, let me do his origin, his teen years, and his Batman training all at the same time just kind of muddled together. So yeah, maybe people were just like, let me do his origin, his teen years, and his Batman training all at the same time, just kind of muddled together. So yeah, maybe people were just like, oh, he's just doing his own thing. But it doesn't feel

showy. Or like Westworld, which Jonathan Nolan was involved with, where so much of the timeline was just to deliberately withhold information. It doesn't feel like that. I think that this movie feels very elegant in the way it jumps around. Agreed. I mean, Jonathan Nolan

is definitely the lesser Nolan when it comes to this stuff. I mean, look, I enjoyed watching Westworld. I did too. Inception, even, is a movie that is very heavy-handed, correctly, because it has to be to make everything make sense about

look, we're cutting from this to this we'll get to that yeah we'll get to that we'll have to go deeper we'll have to go very deep but I do no guess for that episode

I do think this is a movie where A everything builds up and builds into a point it's a very thematic movie and it's very concerned with a select number of ideas and everything ties into that and B it's a movie and it's a smaller thematic movie, and it's very concerned with a select number of ideas, and everything ties into that.

And B, it's a movie where— And it's a smaller movie in a way, too. It's not a lot of character. And also, by making a movie about magicians, the structure of the movie reflects the material. It's not just like, oh, look, it's a trick for the sake of a trick, which is the problem with a lot of twist-ending movies. It's like, you built an entire movie just around the rug pull, and it's yeah but is it a fucking movie you've just it's just a misdirect but this movie is entirely about the notion of misdirecting people is this the best magic movie i mean what other ones are there magic uh now you see me too how do you feel about those i mean i they should

be my favorite movies of all time they should be really and they're not and i that's like the saddest thing for me i'm like this this premise is all i want from a movie um yeah i don't know i think that uh it's funny watching it re-watching it this time i was like this movie actually should be maybe too much too neat like everything ties back around to those points right like even little details the di down to the diaries, like you say. And in a way where it's so focused on getting to that ending that it should be annoying. Yes. But I do think that the control of it works here. And I feel like to the point where the twist for me doesn't feel like a twist.

It feels like the final reveal to help you understand these two characters. Correct. Yes. You know? Exactly. I mean, that's why the movie works. Yeah. It's because it cares about the characters

more than the model timeline or the, you know. Well, and that's a thing. The magic. The thing about Nolan is he is this guy of structures, of big ideas, of narrative twists, but I think he does, you know, he's not a great humanist, but he does care about characters a lot more than a lot of these sort of cold, calculated, master plan directors do.

And he clearly fucking loves actors. He casts really well. He has good dialogue. And he's got a good sense of atmosphere. I mean, this is just a movie where every room they go into feels fully realized. It's a well-designed movie. It's got a great sense of time and place. I love the field of lights.

Right. The field of lights is beautiful. Beautiful. The hats. The theaters where the theater spaces when they're setting up. And it feels like the world is fully realized and it's got such a good,

I mean, I feel like by default this has to be the best magic movie because this is the movie that feels like it represents magic the best. In movies about obsession or about like a field or an industry what I love is when I see it and I'm like fuck I want to be a magician where the movie makes the thing look so compelling even

if it's fucking up the characters life. It makes it look so satisfying to get it right. You're like this is the only thing that anyone should do is magic. Yeah well it also gives you that sense of like every little niche community where you're like this person's a big shot in it and everyone's gossiping about these other people. It gives you the sense of the world of magic as like something

that exists. That's like that thing of watching like Jiro dreams of sushi and being like fuck, I should cook. You know? That's the only good thing is cooking. I should devote my life to learning to cook sushi rice. Like for the time you're watching the movie and under that trance it just like sets up that world so well and like the respect within that world

and the sort of pursuits and the ambitions and the ideals. I will say about this movie, Nolan has made a lot of movies about obsession or about a calling. I do not like Interstellar because I think it like half-asses the message it tries to give about having

a calling and feeling torn. But I think this movie is the best at that because it also is not afraid to have its two main characters be monstrous at times. Yes. You know? Like that- It doesn't really want to redeem them.

Right. And it does not require you to go along with them in this obsession. It just allows it to be there. You know? Because to me, it's like when Borden does reveal like, it's a twin and we committed to this.

And he says this line that's like, you know, we each had half a life, but that was enough for me. Right. Like barely. It was enough. Barely.

Yeah. And you're like, what? No, it wasn't. You ruined the lives of everyone around you. You, it's horrible what you did. Like,

you know, but he, in his head, he's like, no, we did it just right. Like, that was perfect. Well, but that's maybe a key to this movie working so well

is that this is the only Nolan movie, I'm running through my head to confirm this, I will stand by this, this is the only Nolan movie that's really a two-hander. Every other Nolan movie is a main character that you're following and supporting characters around them. And by having the two-hander, both characters are unlikable,

but he's also able to constantly shift the status. They both have tragedies in their life. They're both appealing in different ways and unappealing in different ways.

So you can kind of go like, okay, well now I'm more with Jackman because what Bale did was fucked up. And then Jackman does something fucked up and you're like,

okay, I'm good with Bale. This is a movie about a prank war. A prank war breaks out in the middle of this movie. This movie's based on Jake and Amir. Yeah. Mean pranks. A lady gets her hands broken.

I know. Loses fingers. Yeah. He shoots him. Yeah. The bullet catch scene. That's rough. Yeah.

And then the fall into the no pillows, you know, the trap door. Yeah, linen straight on the leg. Yeah, they then the fall into the no pillows, you know, the trap door. Yeah, Landon straight on the leg. Yeah, they maim each other. They do. They really are not nice to each other at all. Nolan does the exact same move in Dark Knight with Eric Roberts where the guy lands on the ground on his feet.

It's like one of the most painful things to watch in a movie. It's a rough stunt. I think about both of those moments in this and Dark Knight as like visceral like oh I hate that. He lets you see it just for a second but it's plenty. And they do good sound effects. Yeah.

Like the splintering. Yeah. Swear to me. Sorry. Fuck. We haven't even gotten to that joke yet. So Tesla

is he made a Tesla coil that clones people. This I mean I think I just, that's just in, so there's a ship of Theseus essentially, right? Like that's what this is. He makes, this is something I really just want to talk to you guys about because it really freaked me out the first time I saw it.

Okay. This device makes another you, right? And you know, do you guys know what I mean by the ship of Theseus metaphor? It's like, okay, so it's like, it's, I think it's a Greek. It would sound like it would be. Philosophical question, which is like, if you have a ship and slowly over time, you replace every part of the ship with a new part, but like you never at any point like scuttled the ship.

Is it still the same ship or is it a new ship? Okay. And the same thing happened to us. Like we use up all our atoms and our molecules and they get replaced all the time. And like at a certain point, we're a different person, but we're not. So he uses the cloning machine.

It makes a clone of him or makes a new him with a balcony. He goes in the water. Yeah. So every time he dies. He kills himself. Yes. No, he kills himself again and again and again.

But he always wants to do it again. That's what always blows. That's what blows my mind the most about this movie. Because that guy didn't die. The one thing that guy... I love that so much. I know. That's the only thing that...

Here, David, take a pull, bro. The only thing that new copy doesn't have a memory of is dying. Right. Yeah. They have his entire life other than the death. They got zapped all the way there, and then the last thing that happens to that guy after the zap, the only thing that happens is into the tank.

Right. But they feel like as fully formed a human being with the entire sense of memory and emotions and history. Yep. And then they have to kill themselves. Right. But do they know that they're going to kill themselves? I don't think so.

Because he looks surprised when he goes in the tank. Well, he says that thing about, like, I never knew every night if I would be the man in the box or the man in the prestige, right? That suggests almost, like, this sense of, like, he doesn't understand that they're both him. Right. Okay.

I love this shit. I think he's looking surprised on purpose. A, just because even if you know you're going to die. He's drowning and it's horrible. You're drowning. And they emphasize that drowning is a horrible way to die. I love that

where Kane at the first when she drowns he's like beautiful. It's like eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I think it's the correct word.

Then later he's like no it's bad. It's like eating a poo poo and pee pee sandwich. I think that's the line he says right? Like eating a poo poo

and pee pee sandwich. Yes exactly. No but I think that's why line he says, right? Like eating a poo-poo and pee-pee sandwich. Yes, exactly. No, but I think that's why the tank is set up the way it is with the lock going on automatically because he doesn't want to have the chance to second guess and go, actually, let me out. Because he does kill the first clone he makes with a gun. Yeah, yeah. But he didn't really think it through, did he? No, no.

He wants to make sure there's no exit. And also, the second thing is, I think when he sees bail there, he plays it up more because this is part of his bigger plan to get bail arrested. Right. Yeah. No, you're right. You're right. You're right. That's true.

That's true. Bail needs to be in on the bit. Yes. Right. Or not be in the bit. But I do like the idea anyway that, I mean, it's horrible every time. Right? Every time.

Of course. That's why it's so good time. Right? Every time. Of course. That's why it's so good. It's literally the worst thing. It's dying. It's drowning alive. Dying bad. Yeah. See I thought

it could have been fun to have like a apartment full of the clones kind of like a multiplicity kind of thing. And they're all like and then he realizes

they're escaping so then he starts killing them. That'd be a great sequel to The Prestige, which is like now he's got to kill these clones. Or they start a pizza place. In Multiplicity. Yes, exactly. But that's

what the plot with the drunk actor is. He's trying to do that, where he's like, well, what if I just have a clone? And I just like... And he can't bear it no he doesn't want that he doesn't want that guy

getting the applause and of course the guy is like oh you need me so you know whatever give me a ham sandwich I don't know what he wants I'm just gonna go to the bathroom

quick I'll be back in a second okay sure I usually pull this trick but the thing is what was I gonna say what the fuck was I gonna say he totally threw me out the murder

he kills himself every time the fact that he's killing himself in the way that his wife died. Yes. Is like one of those nice little obsessive like notes that I love so much that he like maybe like feels there's something important about that. Yeah. Because at the beginning, Kane's like, you know, this will close it. Particular significance.

I don't know. Right. Right. Hey, what's going on yeah exactly it's griffin well call me finn uh how many minutes are we in yeah we're doing great what were we just talking about uh the fact that he's always killing himself like his wife dies and what we're talking about before that so there's this video game i love soma i just want to talk about it for one minute okay uh which is about you're a person whose brain has been transplanted into a new body way into

the future okay and midway through the game you have to move from your body to a new body and so you do that because your old body doesn't work for like the next thing you have to go into and then when you're in the new body you're confronted with your old body is right there. And the computer's like, well, yeah, that's you too. We copied you. We didn't... Oh, that's you also. You're also still there.

Not that's you too. It's not the band. No, it's not the band you two, unfortunately. And so they're like, and so what do you want to do about this? Do you want to kill this thing or do you just want to let it live? And you get to pick because it's a video game. Of course. And I love just that idea that the copy paste, do you want to kill this thing or do you just want to let it live and you get to pick because it's a video game of course and I love just that idea

that the copy paste you know where it's like you still got you got the old one to worry about you can't just move consciousnesses you just made another one

that's the exact same or is it yeah well especially like when you've got Bale's character living sharing his life with this double

the whole time and Jackman's first instinct is like, we got to kill him. We can't have two me's out there. And he's an A-list movie star and Christian Bale's like a committed character actor. And that fits both of their vibes. Have I ever told the story about the DP on Terminator with Christian Bale? You're doing this. No, you haven't.

Yeah, you've told the story. Yeah, no, you said that earlier. Yeah, he always does the light on on this episode yeah on this episode right yeah yeah of course you know bail's better at it or what's his name uh borden's better than you finn better what i'm just here to talk about the prestige like i've always been i've always been here talking about the prestige well is there anything else about the prestige you want to talk about? I feel like we've talked about all the major threads. Yeah. And then it all sort of wraps up. Out of order.

Much like the movie. Much like the movie. I'm trying to think if there's anything. Well, there's Scarlett Johansson. We haven't talked about her or Rebecca Hall. Yeah. Rebecca Hall. You talk about Rebecca Hall. I think Rebecca Hall is very good in this movie. This was the first time I took notice of her. This was her year. This was her first year because she was in

the start of her 10 the same year which is a nice little movie. Yeah. And it does a nice job of showing the progression of their relationship so that

she's on board she understands that there's something strange but she's at peace with it for a while that she's like sometimes you love me and sometimes you don't

and that's not great but you're mercurial. Yeah. And then at the end it for a while. But she's like, sometimes you love me and sometimes you don't. And that's not great. You're mercurial. Yeah. And then at the end, it totally destroys her. Yes. That thing where she says, do you love me? And he's like, not today. Yeah.

Well, she has that line early on where she says it too, where she's like, you know, some days you don't mean it. But it's fine because it makes the days where you do mean it mean more. And she thinks she's okay with it. Like that's early on when she's still sort of like idealistic. She's like, okay, I got this husband who's not always going to be there for me emotionally, but I'm okay with it because the days when he's good are good. Right, but then the other one starts sleeping with Scar Jo. Yeah.

That's a problem. And brings her to dinner. Yeah. Mean. Yeah, he's an asshole. Yeah, the other guy, yeah, there's definitely a mean twin, an evil twin, and a good twin. There is. He's the punk twin.

He's very punk. And so you've got Olivia Wenscombe, the ScarJo character in the middle here, who's, the idea of her is she's being used as a pawn by Jackman, and she rebels, and she's supposed to have this big moment where she's

like, you know, asserting herself. But then I feel like that just doesn't go away. She knows that they're both using her, right? They basically tell her, like, we're using, like both of them are like, we need something from you. Right.

The character, I mean, it's just a weird character to me because everyone else sort of has these sort of fuller. Well, she also like, she never, she's supposed to be more desperate than I think they really, you know, when she's sleeping at the theater and things like that,

the idea that she really has nothing else. Yeah. You know, yeah, there's not a lot of interiority to her and she plays it just like some kind of like happy to be here. I think she's genuinely struggling with the accent. I think so too. I think that's a struggling with the accent. I think so too. I think that's a big part of it.

I think that's a big, big part. And it kind of fades away by the end. It does. She's barely doing it. Because you kind of feel like Rebecca Hall in this exact same role would have made it into something. It's still not a very well-written character. It's mostly a plot function,

but you would have bought it being a fully rounded human being who seemingly had their own interests. Whereas with Joe Hanson, you just see her going like, I better not fuck up that next word. Right. And like Andy Serkis has, he's doing a better job with the same way. Yeah. He really is worried about his cat.

Yeah. Like, I love that. Right. He's like the least important character in the movie. He's like, you're responsible for this cat, Tesla. But you got the one thing that matters to him, which is the cat. I may be your dog's body. I may have moved to Colorado Springs to the top of a mountain,

but don't kill my cat. Do you have that thing where whenever you see Andy Serkis in a live action movie, you wonder how he would look in mo-cap? He just has a weird looking face. He's got a weird face, and he also is a big actor. So it's like when I see him in something like this, where he's

having fun chewing the scenery for a couple scenes, I'm like, so if he was like a monkey doing this, would it look a little more naturalistic? I always think of King Kong. The worm that looks like a penis just like eats his face. That's always what I think whenever I see his face. And Peter Jackson was like, hey, Andy, great news. I'm going to let you be on camera for this one.

How do you feel about living penises? Six foot penises. Eating your head. You ever want to get eaten by one? What were you going to say? It looks like all foreskin. That foot penises. Eating your head. You ever want to get eaten by one? What were you going to say? It looks like all foreskin. That's the weird. Anyway.

Have you, did you see War Apes? Yes. What do you think of War Apes? I thought, I mean, I think he's amazing. He's amazing.

I have no question. I have no disagreements with you on that. I just thought I didn't like it. I feel like, I thought it was okay. It is okay.

I was not like as greatly moved by it as many people are. I've been seeing it. I love that I thought it was okay. I was not like as greatly moved by it as many people are. I've been seeing it. I love that franchise. I love Planet of the Apes as a larger franchise. I love the new versions. I love the old versions. I liked Dawn a lot.

And this felt like Dawn to me. And I was like, it wasn't enough new about it. And I was a little like lost. It's very biblical. It's very biblical. A lot of Jesus and Moses in there. Oh boy, oh boy. Boy is there. It's very biblical. It's very biblical. A lot of Jesus and Moses in there. Oh, boy, oh, boy.

Boy is there. It's very funny, too. Really funny, crackling. I'm joking. It's like Turok, The First Flight. It has a very tragic comic relief character. Steve Zahn character? Yes.

Could not be more on board for that. And it is kind of the character where you're like, he is good, he is good. And you're like, oh, yeah, right. And it is kind of the character where you're like. He's great. He is good. He is good. And you're like, oh, yeah, right. This is this franchise's version of a comic relief character. I'm so on board. I really didn't like it.

And I feel, yeah. But you didn't like Dawn either? No, I liked Dawn. So you like this less than Dawn? Yeah, definitely. Okay. A lot less. Interesting.

Interesting. Yeah. I like the world of Dawn a little better too. This is, like, the look of this movie is a little boring to me. It just seems a lot. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I like the world of Dawn a little better too. This is like the look of this movie is a little boring. It just seems a lot more abstract. Like you're, you're like, where did all the stuff in the world go?

Yeah. Dawn has a little more stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, just wanted to get your take. I haven't talked to anyone about it. Yes.

Apes, apes thoughts. Apes, apes. Uh, yeah. So Borden is hung by the neck until he is dead. We are doing this in such a scattered way. Well apes, apes thoughts. Apes, apes. Yeah. So Borden is hung by the neck until he is dead. We are doing this in such a scattered way. Well,

what am I missing here? I feel like we're done. It's a hard movie to talk through. It's very hard to talk through unless you literally have like a plot synopsis in front of you. Or like a shot by shot breakdown because it jumps all over the place. It does. Yeah. Right.

But yeah, essentially, you know, Jackman's gotten this magical machine, realizes the sacrifice it's going to need to take. Bail is hung in jail, but only after. That's the other element we forgot. Abra, dabra.

Is that Jackman, there has been a man who's been offering money. A race, a race, yes. Right, representing another man, Lord Caldwell. Being like, can I have your secrets, your tricks? And he's hoping, he just wants to set up a good life for his daughter. He's hoping he's going to be able to get out of there. Yeah. And reluctantly And he's hoping, he just wants to set up a good life for his daughter. He's hoping he's going to be able to get out of there.

And reluctantly, he's given up more and more and more. You see Kane dealing with Roger Reese, saying, please don't take this. Don't take the Tesla machine. This machine is fucked up. Everything else, whatever. Yeah. It is weird that before the car came around, this was kind of tesla's like biggest impact this century oh is this movie yeah it was like oh tesla the prestige guy i feel like this is like this is

the internet like decided tesla was cool or you know became like a cigarette oh yeah jack white oh yeah yeah he gives that kind of monologue oh yeah if you're a tesla and you can make a machine that can reproduce anything, why do you need money from Hugh Jackman? That is a great question. Here's what you do. You take a dollar bill. Yeah.

You put it in the machine. Yep. Don't have to kill anybody. You just get to spend $2. It shows up in the woods. You can just make a bunch of hats go into hat sales. Yeah. What he's got to do, he's got to place a giant piggy bank in that part of the woods so the

money goes straight into the piggy bank. Also, do they not know where the hats were landing no that's my problem when he's like oh here the hats are and they're like i never thought to look around the corner 30 feet over there where there's a pile of top hats i always thought that was just the famous hat forest colorado's hats they grow in trees there's some jerks always throwing their hats away over there you know there's some things that are impressionistic. Movie logic. Yes.

And those images, like the image of the hats is so good. Like, you know, the image of the blind assistants, like, you know, they're so cool. The light bulbs going into the ground. That's incredible. It's so good. I mean, so, like, Nolan at this point wasn't getting Oscar noms except for Pfister. Yeah, Pfister got a nom for this, and he gotten one for for batman begins as well yeah he wins for inception right right i feel like do you feel like if this movie came out now it would be an

oscar movie possibly yeah not only because our ideas of oscar movies have changed a lot that's the thing because i was gonna say not only because nolan is more famous but also because yeah the os Oscars have turned in a major way away from... Which a lot of that has to do with Nolan. We talk about that in our Dark Knight episode, but a lot of it is that there was such a sort of mental collapse

after that movie didn't get nominated where they were like, more films! What are the kids like? Is Fister ever going to be a DP again? You know the guy. Or is he just doesn't want to do it anymore? he's a great DP

yeah the sense of gas he doesn't want to do it anymore but he's one of the best living DPs he's a great DP anyway his last movie is Dark Knight Rises that's it yeah

like as a DP I mean yeah and Moneyball before that which I think is an incredible beautiful shot movie that's what I'm saying it's not just Nolan a movie that could be so uncinematic

no it's wonderful and he does a lot of really interesting stuff in that movie but anyway abracadabra Borden dies after talking to Angier

that's what you were linking up to Hugh Jackman reveals himself right and Bale's like okay okay

good 10 comedy points great work let's cut it out 10 magic points yeah great bit he really is like

yeah you got me okay I thought you were dead alright good work what do you want? And he gives him, one assumes,

a piece of paper on which is written I have a twin brother and we cut his fingers off and shit. And Jackman rips it up very ostentatiously. Which is also like, why did he write that? I guess maybe just so someone could read it after he died. There's an earlier bit too where Jackman

captures Fallon and puts him in the coffin and buries him alive. Yeah, buries him alive. There's a guy that didn't talk, and that's when he gives him the Tesla turnkey, which is just a misdirect. He sends him on a fucking MacGuffin run that ends up actually working out. Getting him a cloning machine. Some bad luck on that guy's part. But Bale keeps on saying, like, I'm going to get out of here. You'll see, like, that's a great trick I'm going to prove.

But it's the same thing Jackman's doing he's willingly walking to his death and the other guy is now his brother's going to take over his life raise the daughter he knows that a version of him will get to continue living but that guy is knowingly walking yeah unlike Jackman who's like I'm not

going to end up in the tank right yeah but Jackman who is like half dead at this point anyway for whatever terrible thing he did. Like yeah. That's what I love about it. Have you guys read the book

that this is about? No. The book has like a much weirder framing. You've heard Priest. Yes. Did you read it before or after?

No I read it after. It has this it's like basically set the present day in the framing story and it's like descendants are still sort of

weird and it has like more verses so the reading the diary stuff is done present day kind of and I also I want to say

and it's been a long time since I read this book but like that Angier like becomes a kind of weird immortal but like fraction of himself at that point

because of all of the he keeps like cloning himself it's like a copy of a copy of a copy yeah basically right yeah he becomes like a ghost himself it's like a copy of a copy of a copy yeah basically right yeah he becomes like a ghost

yeah according to this like an immortal ghost but who's also this like sad like pale imitation of himself like Ian McShane in Scoop

yeah like Ian McShane in Scoop no I love it also Borden's really into vaping which is another thing another copy pasted brain

tale that I love World of Tomorrow by Don Hertzfeld which is again thing i another copy pasted brain uh tale that i love world of tomorrow by don hertzfeld uh-huh yeah which is again you keep copy pasting your brain and like we're being told this story by someone who is so ruined by the experience right she's like the seventh version yeah you're like a little off each time exactly just like all of those things get exaggerated and i like that idea look at number four because this look at number four. Because this, look at number four, exactly. Yeah, very sensitive performance by Michael Keaton. Hey, hey,

hey, come on. Two of his performances are great in that movie. Yeah. Did you see Spidey? I did. He's really good at it.

He's really good at it. Oh, what a surprise. Yeah, I did. I went to see, what I see, I went to see Big Sick

with Romley the other day. Oh, right, you were supposed to see Spidey with Allison and you spilled on her. Yeah, I was forced to continue working.

Sorry. But I saw Big Sick with my sister Romley and the trailer for American Assassin came up. Is that what it's called? Whatever it's called. Yeah, and she just turned to me and she went, God, this looks awful. Like this face that Rom will make

where she's just like, she's just like smelled vomit. Yeah, right vomit. Just utter revulsion. I mean, it does look awful. To a movie trailer. She went, God, this looks awful. And I turned to her and I went, yeah, but you know Keaton fucking owns this. And I just have no doubt that Keaton rules in that movie. Yeah.

I guarantee you, if you saw American Assassin, you'd be like, this thing's boring. But every time Keaton's on screen, you're like, dude sizzles. He's really good in Spider-Man. I'm so excited. Good in Spider-Man. That's a thing. I mean, this is a thing that's been hurting the Marvel Cinematic Universe is that all

the best Marvel villains are Spider-Man villains and they haven't had actors. Well, it's not really an interesting- Most of the best ones. I know it's a different characterization. I know they've made it- It's not really a great version of the Vulture, but it's a great Michael Keaton performance. I don't know anything about what the Vulture is supposed to be like, and I just enjoyed him in this movie. And i enjoyed the way the character

was written me too i really did too yeah um he's kind of a trump voter oh like it i'll say this also not having seen the movie even if like all the spider-man movies have uh other than i'd say the first one have changed the villains a lot yeah yeah for the benefit of the story they're trying to tell. But I think the thing that helps is A, the Spider-Man villains are great visually. They have great power sets. They have great iconography.

Great names. All that sort of stuff. But also they're all street level villains. Which the Marvel cinematic movies have had to have all these big cosplays and maybe mirrors

or things like that. Yeah, you need to try and destroy the world. It's good to have some villains that are just trying to steal some shit. Yeah, well, it's good to have a movie where, right, no one opens a portal in space.

But yeah, well, maybe, but just to get back to your point about the novel, maybe that is kind of what's happened to Angier because he's so heartless in this final confrontation with Borden.

Yeah, he becomes the villain. And he's just been sapped of his soul by all these fucking clones. That's also the sacrifice thing. They keep on talking about, you know, you want your hands to be clean. You want your hands to be clean.

And they're talking about it in reference to the doves most often. Because how you do the dove trick, which everyone seemingly has a dove trick. Yes. Right? You all have your take on the dove trick. Are you willing to kill a dove and get your hands dirty? Right. I always think of Arrested Development.

The dove in the fridge. Right. That dove. Do not open and even with that like when Christian Bale I think at one point says like

you were the lucky one today like tells you what's going to happen again it's like every line Christian Bale has for the first 45 minutes of this movie

is so on the nose it's incredible yeah and it works I'm living half a life some days I feel like it and yeah and you're right

if you want to be a great artist, you're eventually going to end up with a basement full of dead clones in water tanks. Right? That's the moral of the movie. Like Jackman at the beginning of the movie very much doesn't want to get his hands dirty.

He also has a life, right? He has like a home life. So much of this movie is about like the conflict between a home life and a professional, like professional dedication. Which is in so many. In Inception

and Interstellar, obviously. Saying goodbye to your children and the relationship you have with your children, who are not ever characters in these movies. They're always just little cherubs. Right. It is really interesting that even fucking Dark Knight with the... Rachel. No, not Rachel.

The Joker. Gordon's kids. Gordon's family. interesting that even fucking dark night with uh what's rachel uh no not rachel you know the joker joker gordon's kids gordon's oh yeah yeah uh i was gonna say it's really interesting we haven't talked about this yet that like nolan's closest and most consistent collaborator is his wife yeah he makes all these dead white boys he makes these movies about these obsessive guys who sacrifice their family for his wife is this totally like put together lady who's always on set with him and they're fucking great together

like by all accounts they're like a lovely amazing couple they have an incredible work relationship an incredible home relationship and he also is known

for like and this is such a fucking boss move that I think about all the time but he like doesn't have a cell phone doesn't have an email

address and it's just like when I'm not working I'm with my family like You can't reach me. You need me, I'll be there. Here are the hours when I'm available. Here's when I'm on set. Here's my office. But if I go home, I'm with my family.

Which is like, hey, God, imagine having that much power that you can do that and people won't. You won't lose jobs. I wanted to see Spider-Man. They forced me to work my dream job instead those jerks

forced me to do the thing I've been begging to do for 28 years and of course we've talked about it but Allison may not know Christopher Nolan's older brother was a con man who was arrested and has been kept from his children for many years and this is a powerful emotional thread

in a lot of his movies that I feel like nobody talks about. Yes. But you have your big confidence man thing, and obviously this movie is about selling yourself. Magicians, the ultimate confidence man. They really are.

Anyway, I don't know. Is there any other prestige stuff? Can we play the box office game already? Let me just go to the bathroom quickly. Very quick. Very quick. It's just number one. Number one.

Very quick. David Julian did the score for number one. Number one. Very quick. David Julian did the score for this, as he did for Memento and Insomnia. And it's the last time they work together, because then he becomes Zimmer, you know. Yeah. I like the score in this movie. I do, too.

I think David Julian does these nice little synthy scores for him. Yeah. And then it's all Wong. Wong. Trying to think. Lee Smith edited this. Who's this guy now? Who are you now? Is there a third one? Yeah. Are you the drunk?

Are you the drunk actor? I don't know, maybe. Oh, it's such a good Hey, don't vomit there. I'll vomit wherever I want. This is terrible. So this movie... I was going to say, the one thing about the drunk actor is that

it's basically Hugh Jackman making fun of himself. It is. It is. It's such a perfect way of his kind of hammy, bloated thing. Anyway, go on. You're totally right. No, no, no, no, no. You're totally right. All right. Am I supposed to be? Griffin or something? He's doing a pretty good job.

Yeah, I like him. Okay. Okay, box office game. What's going on? Box office game, Allison. To explain. I played Caesar at Caesar. I just, I just, we're just, I'm looking at the week this movie opened.

I remember it was a week number one. It opened at number one, but a soft number one. And Griffin's going to try and guess, and we're going to discuss the other movies. October 20th, 2006. So number one was The Perceived, but it opened to like 14. 14.8 million. Wow.

He's fucking good at this. Yeah, it opened to 14.8. It grossed 53. 109 worldwide. Decent multiplier. October. You know, movies stick around. Yeah, so number two is a movie that's been out for three weeks

and is going to make a lot of money. It's already made a lot of money. It's like a big word of mouth hit. It's a crime movie. Don't want to say a lot because it'll give it away. 2006. Had it been number one or has it been just trucking around? It's been out for three weeks.

It's a good question. Had it ever been number one? Yes, it opened number one. Then it been just trucking around it's been out for three weeks it's a good question had it ever been number one yes it opened number one then it's number two number two number two number two yeah jeez and it eventually makes 132 and it wins some awards oh is it departed yeah okay it's too easy we already discussed it it's hard to give it away right right right all right Number three was the movie I think a lot of people thought was going to win Best Picture or at least challenge for Best Picture this year. It's opening this week. It was a huge bomb. Dreamgirls?

No. No. That opens like Christmas. Yeah, no. And that did really well. It did do really well. People thought it was going to. Okay.

It opens at 10 million third at the box office. It's like by a legendary director. It's about a very classic Oscar... Alexander? No. That's 2004. Yep. Okay.

Legendary director, classic Oscar theme. Genre, yeah. It's a classic Oscar genre. It had a sister movie the same year. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, well... I gave it away. What am I supposed to do?

Right. The Borden to its Freddy. Allison, what's the movie. Oh, well. I gave it away. What am I supposed to do? Right. The Borden to its Freddy. Allison, what's the movie? Oh, God. I don't know. Flags of Our Fathers. Oh. That was a big bomb.

I didn't know it was that big a bomb. Big bomb. A big bomb. 33 million on a 90 million dollar budget. And yet, Letters from Iwo Jima is a great movie. It's weird. What did Iwo Jima end up grossing?

Like nothing. Like 10 million. But it got Best Director and Best Picture and all those. And also no one will ever stop him from making movies. People will just be like, have money. Take all of this money. That was one of the coolest moves ever. I know.

He was like, I'm making an Iwo Jima movie. And I was like, oh, funny. And he's like, you know what? I'm going to make another one. I'm going to make one about the Japanese side of it. And it'll be in Japanese. And it's only going to have Japanese actors. And everyone's like, okay.

And Stria's like, okay. For the listeners, David is putting money on the table. He's skeptically counting out money on the table. Because they were like, well, you made a depressing boxing movie and it won Best Picture and it grossed $100 million. Anything's possible. It's a blank check follow-up. But yeah, I mean, Iwo Jima was viewed as the big heavy hitter,

and it came out and was just like a fart, and they were like, oh, jeez, now they got that Japanese one they got in their hands. And then that came out, and everyone loved it. It's good. It's a good movie. Oh, boy. Number four.

Oh, what to say? It's an animated movie. It's an animated movie. It's about animals. It's not Madagascar. No. Ice Age? It's about animals. Yes. 2006. It's not animated movie. It's about animals. It's not Madagascar. Ice Age? It's about animals. 2006. It's not Happy Feet.

Do not remember this movie exists. I definitely remember it exists. He usually knows the terrible animated movies. It's a Sony Columbia animated movie. Oh, Open Season? How did you know that? Who are the stars? Ashton Kutcher, Martin Lawrence.

Deborah Messing plays the Warner Scarlet. What is that even about? Never seen it. Never seen it. Can't tell you. I just know the name of the movie, what studio made it, and the top three voice actors. Number five is the last and worst entry in the Alison Lohman age 30 plays a teenager movie genre. Remember how Alison Lohman, they kept being like, you can still be a teenager.

White Oleander. Matchstick Men uses that as part of its twist so those are the first two in your trilogy right yep

and then the third one in the Alice in the Labyrinth this is already it's a remake and it's post Big Fish of like a kids movie I know what it is

it's Flicka Flicka what a weird week because at that point she's still playing like 18 and she had done Big Fish where she plays like young Jessica Lange Licka. What a weird week. Because at that point, she's still playing like 18. And she had done Big Fish where she plays like young Jessica Lange. And is like a mother and a wife and an adult.

And then she makes that Adam Magoyan movie Where the Truth Lies. It's like her trying to like jump to being like, I am a grown up, damn it. Right, where Colin Firth and Kevin Bacon play like Martin and Lewis. And they have a three-way with her. Yeah, not with her. Or with Rachel Blanchard. Right, yeah. Just like Cher on the Clueless TV show.

Yeah. That movie's weird. It's really weird. And then Alison Lohman stops making movies. All right. She married one of those two. Well, she was in Drag Me to Hell as well. It's around there.

That's her like last one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She married either Neville Dean or Taylor. Really? Did she? Yeah. Who knew? I knew because I was like, what happened to them?

Remember when they were the next? They made Ghost Rider 2 and then they Did she? Yeah. Who knew? I knew because I was like, what happened to them? Remember when they were the next? They made Ghost Rider 2 and then they split up. Yeah. Ghost Rider 2 is so bad. It's never been the same. The only acting she's done since, Neville Dean.

She married Neville Dean and the only acting she's done since Drag Me to Hell is bit parts in Neville Dean movies. Oh, that's so sad. She's done like one scene. Yeah. And Officer Down.

Yep. She's a good actress. I'd love to see her come back. So it's really hot in here so we're going to wrap up but some other movies that The Grudge 2 The American Grudge 2

is in there. Man of the Year. That was a big flop. Man of the Year was a big flop. Is that the Robin Williams one? Right, which was sold as What If Robin Williams Became President

and that movie's actually a thriller about vote rigging. Do you know that? Yeah. It's a fucking weird. Isn't it a Barry Levinson movie? It's a Barry Levinson movie and they sold it as, it was like, what if Jon Stewart was the president? Because everyone was saying that at the time.

Like, oh, this guy should be in the office. So the movie was sold as like Robin Williams wearing the powdered wig and just like making bits and whatever. The movie is 50% Laura Linney playing an FBI agent who's investigating voter fraud. And it turns out there was like, that movie might actually be very relevant now.

Wow. Sure. Marie Antoinette opened that week. Relevant as The Beguiled is crushing at the box office right now. Which is actually kind of crazy. I know. It just crossed 200 million. It's just, but you know, The Beguiled is short,

it's watchable, and it's got an ending. Like, so you know what? People probably walk out of it and they're like, I had a good time. I think it also has a poster

that promises like sexiness. Good marketing campaign. Yeah, yeah. They're getting away with some of the like Spring Breakers thing of being like, look,

this movie's like fucking shit up. And then you're like, no, it's artsy, it's artsy, it's artsy. Sofia Coppola doesn't know

what a sexy thing is. I mean, I like her, okay, and I like the like no it's artsy it's artsy it's artsy Sofia Coppola doesn't know what a sexy thing is I mean I like her okay and I like the movie because it has Colin Farrell in it but all of the

hashtag vengeful bitches you're like that is not representative of that movie that's some Spring Breakers shit I saw Spring Breakers

in what studio is it Sony Pictures Focus you're right but it feels like a very A24 campaign

I saw Spring breakers in atlanta georgia i was like filming something there and it was the weekend it went wide and i saw it in a theater with just georgian teenagers and it was like incredible because it was just everyone being like this is fucking stupid right yeah and that movie is definitely not but me just sitting with my arms crossed just going uh the The Marine, John Cena's first attempt. Oh, right. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the beginning. John Cena's a weird career arc, because they really tried to push a couple John Cena vehicles,

and none of them connected. And then he, like. Now he's like a comedy guy, though. There were like five years in between where he wasn't doing movies, and now he's comedy. He's had a wrestling and rap career. And he's the voice of Ferdinand the Bull. I think he does have like a rap album, I want to say. No, I know Amy Nicholson, who we just had on the show,

is one of the biggest John Cena stans I know. I think he's really funny. I was about to say, do you stare? I think he's funny, too. I think he knows what he is. And he's good at using his presence. That's the key to being a good movie star, is awareness. You know?

A sense of how you play. All right. So we're done. Allison, thanks so much for being on the so much thank you so much for being here it's good i've only sweat sweat out half of my body weight perfect uh people people should follow you on twitter people should listen to foam spotting svu read buzzfeed what else that's all i got yeah so don't friend me on Facebook I'm just leaving that hellhole behind oh Jesus of course nice

cool it's literally just like my aunt at this point yeah it's just a disaster all the time yeah

yeah yeah a lot of hot takes though I don't know I mean Facebook my aunt's got some hot takes you're not wrong she's a hot taker

uh yeah Presti so next week is Dark Knight probably uh correct we're gonna have the dcm show drop somewhere in there so maybe i can't remember let's say that i mean we've publicized it on social media but i think it maybe will happen after that we're we did an episode with peter serif and which my co-star on the tick yep that was a flashback to our star wars days it's talking mall talking 45 minutes just talking about the process of playing

Darth Maul's voice for four lines in a movie. Just great. Just a great time. It's great. It's a great episode. Everyone's gonna love it. And then after that,

yeah, Dark Knight and then Inception and yeah, we're trundling along. Yeah, we're trundling. We're definitely trundling. Shut up. All right, I'm done.

I'm done. Wrap it up. Awesome. Thank you for being here. Please, listeners, remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to our Reddit for some dorky shit. Big thanks to Ant for Gudo for running our social media account. Joe Bowen and Patrick Reynolds for doing our artwork.

Lane Montgomery for the theme song. And as always, David, I was three people the whole time. You were three person the whole time? I was three person. But there time. You were three person the whole time? I was three person because there's me. Ben, are you hearing this? There's the twin brother and then the drunk. I don't know if you caught it because it was very subtle.

Very subtle. Oh, so that was like a bit. This is me right now. Okay. Hi, this is me, the twin brother. You might notice my face is five pounds heavier. Right, yeah. And you have a septum piercing.

You're a punk. Correct. And then hello, it's me! Alright. Are we going? You got your thing ready? Your bullshit? Okay, you gotta give me a line. Okay, what do I need? Because I had to work around not being able to do Michael Caine with every good line in this movie. You have to say, was line. Okay. Because I had to work around not being able to do Michael Caine with every good line in this movie.

You have to say, was it good? Who am I? Scarlett Johansson. You decide how much you want to play. Was it good, governor? Well, I'll save this for the mic. All right. Was it good?

Well, hold on. It's going to be when I point to you. What's the, would that help? Yeah. All right. Was it good? Well, hold on. It's going to be when I point to you. What's the... Would that help? Yeah. All right. Was it good? She sounds like ridiculous.

She's very high-pitched in the movie. Yeah, yeah. She's very breathy. Uh-huh. Okay. Do your thing. Jesus. It's hot already.

Send one text. You're sending a text? I have to send one before we start. Fair enough. God, this movie didn't do that well. No, we'll talk about that. Wasn't there another magic movie? Yeah, there were three.

We'll talk about it. Like, save it. Save it. The year of magic. Okay, ready? He had a new trick today. Was it good? Fuck, I fucked it up.

We got to say, What the fuck are you doing? Do Michael Caine. It's better because it's funny. Do Michael Caine. Yeah, do Michael Caine. You have to do Michael Caine.

It's way better than whatever it is. Okay, but if I'm doing it, it's long. That's the deal. No, that's fine. Okay. Michael Caine.

No. Okay, ready? Michael Caine. Michael Caine. Michael Caine. I mean, that's not the worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah, you got it. okay ready Michael hot Michael kind Michael kind I mean that's not the worst thing I've ever heard

yeah you got it okay ready I'm ready