Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Sixth Sense with Katey Rich

Episode Date: February 1, 2016

Joining Griffin and David on this week’s episode is special guest Katey Rich (Vanity Fair) to help examine Shyamalan’s 1999 breakout, career defining film: The Sixth Sense. How did this unknown writer/director convince Disney to pay him 3 million dollars for the script with the clause to direct? What is the significance of red in the movie? How did this same filmmaker go on to make Lady in the Water? Are there any SIGNS of what is to come!? Together, they discuss ghost logic, actor Toni Collette’s amazing performance, munchausen by proxy, the climate in cinema during 1999 and so much more! Plus, the gang nerds out on box office stats, Griffin revisits working with Trevor Moore on ‘Butt Whistle’ and Producer Ben presents his own original endings.

I hear pod people. Oh, God, this is so bad. But I had to do that. I know. I'm not proud of it, but there's so bad. But I had to do that. Yeah, I know. I'm not proud of it, but it was the gimme. We had to do it. The whole time I was watching the movie, I was like, what, is he going to do, like, an ICD?

I don't know, because it'd be a bummer if I didn't. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's a bummer if I do, a bummer if I don't. Everyone would just be waiting for it if you had to do it. Right, exactly. Let's peel it off. And they'll be like, did he not think of that? Is he that stupid?

Or does he think he's classier than that? Because now's a weird time to start being classy. We should like, it should be, I wish we had a video podcast where we could shove the podcast out from under a bed. That would be good. That would have been good. If this could be visual, I'd just stick my arms out and that would be the opening. And then I'd vomit on top of you.

Hi everybody. My name is Griffin Newman. He just vomits on her shirt. My name is Griffin. I'm David Sims. Newman, David Sims. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. And this is our new investigative miniseries.

Pod Night Shyamacast. Pod Night Shyamacast. Woo! So, Katie, there was a face-off between me and Griffin's chosen titles and my title won. What was the other option? The other option was PCash Shyamalan.

I want to point out that I just put a vote out there. I didn't make it clear which one was my choice. I said, hey, we're going to start recording today. We're asking the people of Twitter, the good people of Twitter to let us know what we should call our miniseries. And David quoted my tweet and said if you don't vote for

Pod Night Shamacast, you're not my friend. I did say that. So David won, but did... I think it was also just a better title. It sounds like a real threat. I mean, I would be worried. Yeah, won the battle, lost the war. You know what I'm saying?

He has to go to sleep with himself at night knowing that he's strong-armed. Sleep fine. The Twitterati. Our very special guest today is Katie Rich. Katie Rich. Hello. A podcast luminary of Vanity Fair.

Vanity Fair. Bring in the class. Hollywood elite. Host of Fighting in the War Room, which I've been listening to for God knows how many years now. How long has that been going for now? Oh my God, five years. Like we had our five year anniversary.

It's terrifying. The best film podcast, in my opinion, is Fighting in the War Room. I mean, this. And then the second best is this one. Yeah. And the Little Gold Men. Also the host of Little Gold Men on the Pan in the War. I mean, this. And then the second best is this one. Yeah. And the Little Gold Men. Also the host of Little Gold Men on the Panoply Network.

She's got two. I got too many podcasts. Yeah. And she's now an official host of this podcast. She's never leaving. That's true. So now she has three podcasts. She's here for good.

Yeah. And I feel like I should say I'm here because I started listening to this over Thanksgiving and couldn't stop. And I couldn't stop tweeting at you about it. So thank you for letting me step into the screen. What turned you on to us? What was the breakthrough moment? I was assigned to watch the prequels because of Fighting in the War when we were doing

a Star Wars series. So I was like, okay, I gotta watch the prequels and then I knew you guys were doing these and I hadn't seen the prequels in years. So I was like, okay, now that I've seen the movies, I'll listen to the podcast. And we had these pop quizzes where we were all pick which one you want

to answer pop quiz questions about. And I only nailed it. Yeah, she shouted us out. Yeah. Really? Oh, yeah. Well, you listened to 10 episodes about one movie. You're going to remember a lot of plot details. What was the toughest question you got right? Oh, God. I think it was naming the planet where Obi-Wan goes.

The rain planet. See, now I can't remember. Amino. Rain planet. Ben's favorite. You, now I can't remember. Amina. Hot Planet. Rain Planet, Ben's favorite. You didn't think you were ever going to talk about Star Wars this room again, did you? Oh, we're never going to stop talking about Star Wars. We're going to always talk about Star Wars.

They pushed episode 8 back to December. I know. I'm so pissed off about that. Yeah, but Rogue One. It's like right around the corner. I know. I know. I like it being a Christmas treat every year.

I like having a little Star Wars in the tree. I don't like the idea. They should... You know, it's that thing like where Harry Potter would occasionally have one come out in the summer and it would do

like way worse and then eventually they were like, okay, we're just not going to do that anymore. Yeah, well,

because if you can be the Christmas movie, that corridor is like every single day for 10 days between Christmas and New Year's or between whatever it is,

the 23rd and the 3rd. Every day you make $50 million because no one has anywhere to go. Don't you make $50 million. It's crazy. Because no one has anywhere to go. Don't you all remember seeing Titanic repeatedly over your Christmas breaks in 1997? I do. Yep.

I didn't see Titanic until 2005 on a VHS. That is a shame. That's a bummer. Yeah, you want to hear the real? You were pretty little for Titanic, I would assume. You were like eight, seven or eight. I was weird with movies when I was a kid. I saw a lot, but I would be sort of contrarian and not want to see the things that everyone else was seeing.

I didn't see The Lion King until later. I don't know. But I saw it like 2005. You know what? No, I saw it full screen on Cinemax and was like, this movie sucks. I don't know what you guys are talking about. The end shit's good.

And then I saw it when they re-released it in 3D and I was like, oh no, this is the best movie of all time. Me and Katie were just tweeting at each other about it. You have to see it in movie format. No, come on. When we were at Videology, before Trivia, and then we'll start on the, I promise then. When we were at Videology,

and my girlfriend was with us, it was before Trivia, and Titanic was playing, my girlfriend's like a complete, she's never seen any movie. It's completely insane. And I was like, you've never seen Titanic? And she's like, meh. And I was saying one thing i think i think is really good about titanic is that it has a happy ending even though it's about the titanic sinking yeah but it has this like fantasy sequence where at the end where she's sort of marrying leo and it's like her dying

and it's heavenly and everyone's there and then so we were watching because we were watching the last half hour of the movie and then that scene came on and the ideology was loaded with people and they all started screaming. Do you remember that? Yeah. Because it's so good.

Because they're cheering? Like they were happy. Cheering and yelling and clapping because it's so good and I was like that's why people kept seeing the movie

because the ending just leaves you on this crazy sort of euphoric note. I don't want to give credit. Titanic is so good. I don't want to give credit to the is so good. I don't want to give credit to the Lord Voldemort of the movie blogger sphere,

but Jeffrey Wells has often said that that's the only reason that film won Best Picture. And not as like a backhanded compliment against the film, but he was like,

that put it so over the edge where you like wanted to live in that movie in that moment forever because you know, you know, it's such a transcendent. It is not the best movie of 1997 as much as I love it.

But it's maybe the best movie of all time. No, exactly. If that makes sense. It's not the best movie of that year, but it's maybe the best movie ever made. I love Titanic so much, but I still would have given L.A. Confidential Best Picture, which I think is the greatest movie. You've got to go with the Zeitgeist when you get the opportunity to reward the Zeitgeist. Of course. In terms of Oscars, I agree.

But in terms of David's Oscars. Like a personal favorite. Yeah, sure. You could make your a personal favorite. Yeah, sure. You could make your own personal favorite. A Bug's Life. I'm going to start my own rival 10-part series about Titanic. I hope that you guys will enjoy that. I would love to be on that.

Yeah, okay, great. Yes, please. Oh, dude, let's just do Titanic like minute by minute. That's what we should do. Yeah, that is literally, I could recite it by memory. Yeah, we should do a live show where we just do Titanic. It's like the improvised Shakespeare company or whatever. We just play all the parts. James Cameron would be a fascinating blank check subject. Oh, we're do a live show where we just do Titanic. It's like the improvised Shakespeare company or whatever. We just play all the parts.

James Cameron would be a fascinating blank check subject. Oh, we're going to do him one day. Because he got a blank check and then only went up and up and up. He's the one. They just kept giving him bigger blank checks. They gave him like Ed McMahon ones. He keeps making more money. He's the reason that everyone else gets blank checks.

They're like, well, James Cameron did and it worked, so okay, we'll give you a ton of money. It never works. He's like the mogul of the blank check. It's also the opposite of how Cameron did it and it worked, so okay, we'll give you a ton of money. It never works. He's like the mogul of the blank check. It's also the opposite of how it usually works, which is someone, everyone,

they give them the blank check and they're like, this is going to be huge and then it disappoints. James Cameron, every time six months before the movie comes out, they're like,

this is the one that flops. Yeah, right, right. They always think it's going to be a disaster. That's why I'm so in on the Avatar sequels because everyone is so ready to hate on them

and I'm like, let's do it. I don't even want them and yet I will love them because I love everything James Cameron made. Yeah, because they're James Cameron movies.

They're going to be the best. Oh man, this could bite us in the ass. Yeah, okay, I have a big twist. Whoa! A big twist. Whoa!

You guys know but I want to reveal it to the audience. We have sitting with us at the table Oh shit. Producer Ben Hosley aka producer Ben aka producer Ben aka the Ben Ducer aka the Poet Laureate aka Hello Fennel aka the Peeper Bowl. Oh, shit. Producer Ben Hosley, a.k.a. Producer Ben, a.k.a. Producer Ben, a.k.a.

the Ben Ducer, a.k.a. the Poet Laureate, a.k.a. Hello Fennel, a.k.a. the Peeper, a.k.a. the Tiebreaker, a.k.a. Birthday Benny, a.k.a. Mr. Positive, a.k.a. the Haas, a.k.a. Oh, you, Ben, Producer Ben Kenobi, a.k.a. Kylo Ben. Kylo Ben, right.

I can't believe you're doing that from memory. Yeah, we should write those down. We always miss one. Katie is, like, taking a drink you're doing that from memory. Yeah, we should write those down. We always miss one. Katie is like taking a drink of water as you do that. Yeah, she's exhausted in that speech. But, okay, so this is- So we're here. This is episode two of Pod Night Shyamacast. The studio has been restructured.

I know this is the plot thread that our listeners are really hanging on to, right? Oh, yeah. They love to hear this. But our studio's been restructured. The room next to it is now where the ones and zeros are. Yeah. And then this is now a more spacious little closet for us to record in. Two weeks ago, you set the levels.

You sat down at the table with us here for the podcast reawakens. Right. Last week, you were in the other room where we couldn't see you. The voice of God. The voice of God. It freaked me out. I referenced it way too much because I couldn't get over it. Yeah, you talked about it a lot.

This week, you have. An intern. Yes, we have Brian joining us as a work study here with the podcast with UCB. Is he getting credit? Thank you, Brian. Yeah, thank you, Brian. I'm going to cut this out. Is he getting school credit for this?

He is. He is? Wow. And he's also getting a credit from us, the podcast. It's called Improv. I always think of the... Much credit to Brian, I say. The topless girl in The Life Aquatic. That's what I always think of now when it's like the intern.

Brian is shirtless. We should mention that. Yeah, of course. That's a requirement. I think it's a requirement. That's more practical than anything I did in an internship or got school credit for. 100%. That's a skill.

Podcast for the future. Yeah, absolutely. And you're working under this guy. Yeah. That's where the money's going. Learn everything you need to know. You're going to learn a lot of stuff. For the listener at home, when Ben says this guy. Yeah. That's where the money's going. Learn everything you need to know. You're going to learn

a lot of stuff. For the listener at home, when Ben says this guy, he's pointing a thumb at his chest. So guys, we're here to discuss a film by M. Night Shyamalan.

Yes. Oh, and I got gripes, guys. I just want to tell you right now. Wow. Got some gripes. You're starting kind of

early. You know, there's many worse movies to come. Yeah, this is not the movie to have gripes about. Gripes. For better or worse, this is not the movie to have gripes about. Gripes. For better or worse, this is the M. Night Shyamalan film.

This is the film that will define his career for the rest of time. Yeah. You know, he can make 80 more movies. This will be the film. And just to recontextualize a little bit, so last week was a weird episode because we talked about these two movies that most people don't even know exist. And we'll never see. Right, we'll never see.

Even though we made a podcast about it, no one's going to watch it. And one of them is on YouTube, apparently. One of them is on YouTube. Do not need to watch that. Okay. I wasn't tempted. I just want to let everyone know it's okay. But two films that have some similarities, a lot of differences,

and are a guy who just has a technical craft, you know? Yeah. And a sort of mathematical assessment of how to get emotions out of the audience. He can set up a shot. Right. But those two films are very emotionally

manipulative in a way that feels a little too overt and forceful. Yeah. Even if it works, you're like, I see what you're doing there. Spielberg poops.

Get your hands off. They're crappy Spielberg poops. Right. And now he takes this shift into the thriller. And we said last week he was unhappy with how Wide Awake

was handled by Weinstein, both on set and the editing, and in its release. I said both, but it was three things. So then he called his shot Babe Ruth style. You like that sports reference? A great sports reference. A great sports ball reference. He was like, I'm going to write a screenplay that's so good

that I'll be able to sell it for over a million dollars and have like final cut. He sold it for three million dollars. Yeah. Oh, what? Yeah. The 90s were crazy. With the stipulation that he had to direct. That's insane.

And then he had control. He was like, I'm calling my shot. I'm going to write a spec script that's so undeniably great. They'll give me three million dollars and they'll like, let me make it the way I want. And so he ships this around town, like, you know, bring suspected Disney and Fox and wherever. And I think people go ballistic immediately. Wow. Oh, and the guy who bought that script got fired, like by you know, bring suspected Disney and Fox and wherever. And I think people go ballistic immediately. Wow. Oh, and the guy who bought that script got fired, like, by Disney.

Crazy. Like, right away. They're paying $3 million for a spec script. What are you doing? Well, I think this was released, not released, but the shingle it fell under was Spyglass Pictures, which, like, this was one of the last things that Spyglass Pictures made. Well, because Disney, I mean, you may have this on your printout. Disney had, like, four.

No, Disney released the rights to this picture to Spyglass because they were like so uninterested in it. Really? Yeah. After they had made it? After they made it. They retained distribution rights, 12.5% of the box office, but most of it went to Spyglass. And 12.5% of the

box office, just to be clear, domestically this film made, I believe, $300 million? It made, yeah, and it made about $700 million worldwide. That's messed up. I know. This is 1999.

And it opened to about $25 million and then it just made $20, $20, $20, $20 for week after week after week. And it opened in early August, right?

Yes. And I remember very distinctly this was when August was very much a no-man's. 1999. You didn't release movies in August. If it was August, it was a dump.

And the one weekend you could get through... It's still kind of true. August 6th, that first week, and that's the Guardians of the Galaxy slot, that's the Hell slot. It's encroaching now. And that's the thing. If you can get something good August 6th, you maybe play for the rest of the month. You get four weeks of number one,

and you get sleeper sets. Yeah, the Tropic Thunder kind of... But you have to be good, you have to be the first week of August, and then you get the sleeper. Yeah. The Tropic Thunder kind of. Yeah. Right. But you have to be good. You have to be the first week of August and then you get the doldrums maybe even through to September. You're owning that. Through Labor Day for sure.

Now I remember I might be off on one of these but I know at least two of these three I'm certain about. This was the weekend where like four movies were trying to be the breakout August film. You want to see the first week of. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You want to see the first week? Yes. Yeah, you want to hear about the first week? I believe the four major studio releases of that film, films of that weekend were The Sixth Sense, Mystery Men.

Mystery Men had come out last week, the previous week. Interesting. Okay. The Iron Giant came out that weekend, correct? The Iron Giant had also come out a week before. Are you sure you're on the first weekend of Sixth Sense? Sometimes Box Office Mojo, if you click on the first weekend. Holy shit.

Yep. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. You're right. Mystery Man, Iron Giant, Sixth Sense, and Dick? You're missing one. A film that I watched on Starz the other day and holds up.

The Thomas Crown Affair. Oh, shit. So that's like five big movies that we're all hoping they could be the breakout August film. Wait, so where does the Blair Witch Project fit into this? The Blair Witch Project has already been out for four weeks and has already made $80 million. And it's really funny because the budget, you know, Box Office Mojo always has the budget

as like, you know, 40, 60. And the Blair Witch Project is.06. But anyway, yeah. So yeah, Blair Witch is like the summer, talk of the summer. That's the crazy thing. The two most definitive horror movies of Hollywood's last 20 years came out in the same month, basically. And couldn't be more diametrically opposed. Absolutely.

And one represents the last horror film of its kind made by Hollywood Studio in a way. And the other one becomes the future. Slowly but surely becomes like everything. No, but like, yeah, the movies, there's Runaway Bride is hanging around. You've got Deep Blue Sea

is hanging around. Phantom Menace still in the top 10? Phantom Menace just fell out of the top 10. It's number 11. Wow. You've got American Pie.

You've got The Haunting. I remember with Catherine Zeta-Jones and Liam Neeson. What's Inspector Gadget up to at this point? 97? Inspector Gadget sits in its third week

and it's made $64 million. I saw that movie in theaters. The Matrix is done by then. The Matrix is way down. Yep. Because that was in April. It's been out for 20 weeks and has made $170 million.

I saw all of these in theaters. Are you kidding me? I didn't see The Sixth Sense though. I don't know why. I saw it much later. Were you just uneven on horror movies? I was uneven on horror. Did you see Blair Witch? I saw Blair Witch. I don't know. I was seeing a bunch of stuff. i don't know why i saw it much later were you uh you know just uneven on horror movies or did you see blair witch i saw blair witch um i don't know i was seeing a bunch of stuff i don't know why i was in my big entertainment weekly reading phase but i think i got spoiled on the twist early which we'll talk about sure uh yeah i didn't see six cents in

theaters but i saw runaway bride in theaters for sure so me too what about notting hill where's that that was earlier in the summer notting Hill has been out for 12 weeks. Huge Julia summer. Yeah, Notting Hill was in May, right? I feel like Notting Hill came out against like weekend two of

Phantom Menace. We should talk, 1999 is like, I think now officially considered like the best year Hollywood has had and has not like eclipsed. For like studio product.

Yeah. What's crazy is it's both considered like a banner year for like legitimate film and a banner year for like blockbusters. Like it was like both.

It was everything in one year. Here are some other movies that are just sort of down on the list. Just like, you know, Eyes Wide Shut, which is the best movie of my time. Sorry, guys. Toy Story 2. No. Austin Powers 2. Wild Wild West.

Obviously terrible. I'm just sort of telling you. The Mummy. The Mummy, which is so much fun. Thrills. Thrills and shows. Run, Lola, Run. The Red Violin. Now I'm just... Yeah, Red Violin.

Tea with Mussolini. Yo, Tea with Mussolini. Charles Dance directed. Life. That movie with Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence about prison. That movie's a bummer. Wait, is Bowfinger that summer? Bowfinger comes out the second week of The Sixth Sense. It comes out next week.

Wow. Yeah, that's the thing. The next weekend has Bowfinger. It has Detroit Rock City. Sure. So The Sixth Sense is number one for five weeks in a row. I just remember that opening weekend, everyone was like, oh, man, it could be any one of these five films.

But Sixth Sense was maybe on the lower end of expectations. It opened to 26 million. Like very nice opening for 19th Amendment. But I remember that being a surprise. Oh yeah. Like Bruce Willis was coming out of a fallow period, right? Serious fallow period. So he had had like, he got a bump up a couple years earlier from Pulp Fiction.

That was five years earlier. The films he made in between weren't that big and it was lost up where it's like- Well, he had Die Hard with a Vengeance. And Armageddon was the summer before. That's right. Oh, that's true. Armageddon had already rebooted him. That's fair.

Okay, so Armageddon. I mean, he also had made 12 Monkeys, which is amazing. And he's actually a huge moneymaker. When did the kid come? Was that after 6? A year after the kid. That was the post, like, oh, I guess he's good with kids. Let's keep pairing him up with kids.

That movie was a big deal then because it was like Bruce Willis and another kid it's called Disney's the kid like it's one of those things where Disney was like we're putting our name on this this is gonna be big well you know the number one reason that happened was they made the film and then whoever retained the rights to Charlie Chaplin's

the kid was like oh we actually own the rights oh so they had to call it Disney's the kid it was well he also you know around then he makes the story of us with Michelle Pfeiffer he makes once the kid was like, oh, we actually on the right side. Oh, so they had to call it Disney. So this is like a Lee Daniels to Butler situation. Yeah, it was. It was. Well, he also, you know, around then he makes the story of us with Michelle Pfeiffer. He makes Breakfast of Champions, which is like a legendary disaster. That comes out very shortly after.

Very shortly after. It disappears. It makes no money. And then, you know, obviously after that, the whole Nine Yards, which was a big hit. Yeah. You've got Unbreakable and bandits yeah and then he goes right back into his like dead period where it's like hearts war tears of the sun hostage you know these movies that nobody weird career he's got the worst he's still hanging in there though you know

oh when he's good he's great yeah because he had that one fucking year where he came back and it was like oh do you want looper and Moonrise Kingdom within four months of each other? Totally. Totally. And then also I'm going to host Saturday Night Live and seem engaged and be really funny. It's like, yeah, Bruce, thank you. Welcome back. Here, we made a pot roast for you.

And then- And then he shits on the pot roast. And he made Die Hard. What the hell was that? Good Day to Die Hard. What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that?

What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that?

What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that?

What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that?

What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that?

What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell was that? What the hell Cop Out. No, Cop Out was before that. Oh, Cop Out I saw in theaters. Cop Out. That was a really outrageously bad movie. Yeah, and he's awful. He is actively not awake in that movie. I think someone is behind him just jerking his arms around and stuff. He's kind of fun in Red, though, right? The first round?

Yeah, I didn't see Red 2. Did not see Red 2, I'll admit. Okay, so this is what I remember about The Sixth Sense coming out. We're such box office nerds and Oscar nerds in this room. This is the thing. We could do this all day. The top weekend in 1999. God, that's all I want to talk about. Katie, do you want to come up? We should do

an Oscar episode, right? Oh, yeah. We need to do an Oscar episode. She does so much Oscar stuff. I don't know. What's the blank check Oscar? It'll be the blank check awards. We pick our awards. Oh, the blankies. I think we do the blankies. By the way, our fans are called blankies. Okay, yeah. I think I heard that. We do the blank checks, a.k.a. the blankies. I think we do the blankies. By the way, our fans are called blankies. Okay, yeah. No, I think I heard that.

But we do the blank checks, aka the blankies. I think we'll do like Oscar weekend, we'll release an episode where we do our picks. That sounds fun. Right?

That'd be fun. We should totally do that. Yeah, we should do that. But wait, I just wanted to, so let me just tell you guys. 99's so crazy. The Sixth Sense weekend.

It opens to 26 million. The next week, it makes 25.7 million. That's bananas. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. The next week it makes $25.7 million. That's bananas. Isn't that nuts? The next weekend it makes $23.9 million. The weekend after that it makes $20 million. And the weekend after that, which is Labor Day weekend, it makes $29 million.

Jesus Christ. So it's five weeks in a row, number one. And then it goes like 16, 11, 8, 7. It drops like 20% every week. What's the total after week 5? After Labor Day weekend? The total after Labor Day weekend is $176 million. Which today adjusted for inflation would be like $300 million.

And what did you say the budget was? Budget $40 million. That's actually kind of expensive. Kind of high. For a movie that's actually pretty low on the big set pieces. But it looks really good. It looks very expensive. So I think this is the first thing we should say.

This is an incredible looking movie and every, it's beautifully composed and it's crazy. I'm not saying Wide Awake doesn't look terrible. Yeah. But it is crazy to watch Wide Awake and then to see this movie and think like, how did, where did this come from? It's crazy that this is his third film. Like in a weird way. Opening sequence with the reflection in the,

in the fricking plaque that he got. He fucking tak fujimoto to shoot this yeah who is jonathan demi's guy and is like a king a master right um but but also it's like in a way if this was his first film which a lot of people think it is erroneously yeah i keep thinking i actually keep thinking unbreakable came before this which is also wrong fascinating i know um If this was his first film, it would almost make more sense than it being his third film. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, sure. Because then you're like, whoa, here's this guy. And came out fully formed, he's Orson Welles.

Or if it was his 10th movie and it's like, oh, you see the slow build. Well, if Orson Welles had been making movies in the 90s, he probably would have had some shitty NYU student film. Yeah. 100%. I'd watch it. I don't know if it's shitty. He has like a mediocre although deeply profound

to me as a eight year old Miramax like dramedy. Yeah. Griffin was the one person who liked Wide Awake when it came out. It spoke to me. I saw it in theaters.

David for the listener has put his hand on Ben's shoulder. Ben's next to me and I just put my I'm a very touchy person. He's such a great guy. But yeah, there's such a humongous leap between like Wide Awake and Praying With Anger have the same strengths and the same weaknesses.

And then Success all of a sudden. Very few strengths and lots of weaknesses. All of a sudden he's just like totally clicking. And it's not just like, okay, he's got a great cinematographer. You know, he has a bigger budget. He wrote such a good script, and he's got great actors that the studio clearly gave him time to get it right. It feels like they gave him space to get it right. Yeah, I bet they shot this movie for, like, 20 weeks or something crazy.

It feels very immaculate, you know? It feels like sort of he's got a lot of control over every image, the rhythms, every cut. And I think part of that's because of how deliberately it needs to be constructed in order for the twist to pay off and then to work the second time that feels like they really when you know the twist certainly the movie certainly has this like calibration to every scene where it's like everything needs to line up with what's gonna happen yeah yeah so i feel like the 40 million because if i remember correctly when this film i think Bruce Willis

had pulled out of another Touchstone film and he owed them one okay sure I think there was a factor into this where Bruce Willis maybe got paid less than he usually did because it was sort of a contractual obligation based on another thing that had gone wrong according to this piece of paper that is here he earned 10 million for the sixth. So he was a quarter of the budget. But yes, he had backed out of another Disney project and so he signed

a three-picture deal with them to make up for it, which led to Armageddon, the Sixth Sense, and Disney's the Kid. Disney's the Kid. Disney's the Kid. $10 million's not bad,

but I bet his quote was higher. I'm willing to believe Oh, yeah. He was probably coming close to $20 at that point. Yeah. And that's back when the 20 million dollar actor

was like remember it was like oh there's 8 20 million dollar actors you know and there's like fewer now which is how crazy things are but there was like

a weird 20 million dollar boom where like Jim Carrey was the first with the cable guy well everyone lost their mind about that everyone started getting 20 they started handing out

20 to anybody Chris Tucker got 20 million for Rush Hour 2. Deservedly. Yeah, but it was also his fourth movie. Have you ever heard the Soderbergh story about Julia Roberts? No. So she got $20 for maybe Notting Hill, some picture around 99, 2000.

I forget which one it was. I think it would have been after My Best Friend's Wedding. That was her comeback. I think Notting Hill and Runaway Bride, she maybe got $20 each. Might have been Runaway Bride. Anyway, so she got $20 and I guess That was her comeback. I think Notting Hill and Runaway Bride she maybe got 20 each. Might have been Runaway Bride. Anyway, so she got 20 mil and I guess that was well known

and he wanted her for Ocean's Eleven so he sent her an envelope with a $20 bill in it with a note saying I want you for Ocean's Eleven and here you get 20 a picture now. What a guy. What a fucking guy.

What a fucking guy. And it worked. And it worked. Love that story. He had already gotten her an Oscar at that point, right? Well, maybe not before he shot Ocean's Eleven. Not sure, because it's the year after. Because Soderbergh made Aaron Brockovich, then Traffic, then Ocean's Eleven in a two-year period.

Well, so Aaron Brockovich comes out March of 2000, and then Ocean's Eleven comes out November 2001. So they might have been right, yeah. December 2000. They knew each other by then. So he'd shot Erin Brockovich, but she probably hadn't won at the point that they started shooting. But I mean, you know. Yeah. That was in the bag.

Talk about an Oscar winner that was in the bag. Oh, man. She can't let that orchestra cut her off. Oh, boy. Shut up, that stick man. I remember at my whatever Oscar party I went to with my parents, when I was like six or seven, whatever year The English Patient came out. 98.

I had not seen it. No, English Patient was 96. You're totally right. What's the matter with me? It was before Titanic. Yeah, because Titanic's 97. What's 98? Shakespeare in Love is 98.

Shakespeare in Love. So much better than The English Patient. Okay, so 96, the 97 awards. We're going to talk about Sixth Sense, Ben. I promise. Ben, I promise. He printed out all this information for us. Ben has printed out three pages with 17 bullet points.

I got it from mental floss. I just wanted to be a good producer and try to, you know. I didn't give you credit when I read off those stats earlier. I'm sorry. It's quite all right. 97 Academy Awards. I go to a party with my parents and their friends and everyone's like putting in money

and I was like, what's this? It's like, oh, if you guess the most correct winners, you win the pot. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I'll do this. And they're like, but Griffin, you haven't seen any of the movies other than, I don't know, Flubber was nominated, whatever.

Oh, Babe. Babe would have been nominated that year. Was Babe the same year? No, Babe was 95. 95, you're right. I don't know what I had seen, if anything, but I just know I was like, well, these grown-ups keep on talking about the English patient. So I picked the English patient in every single category.

I believe it won like eight or nine Oscars. And I came in second place for the night. I was the only one who had Binoche because everyone else assumed it was going to Bacall. And I was just like, lady from the English patient. Boom. So then they were like, this is the kid. And so like every year after that when I came to the party, they were like, this is the kid. And so every year after that, when I came to the party, they were like, this is Disney's the kid.

When I came to the party, they were like, this kid, he picks wild, he's gonna win. So I came in the next year and I was like eight, and they were like, kid, what you got? And I was like, Full Monty. And I picked Full Monty. You go Full Titanic, come on, you could have repeated the same strategy and watched it. I picked Titanic in every other category

and picked Full Monty for Best Picture. And they were like, what are you talking about? Titanic's going. I was like, just watch me. So then the next year I came back and they were like, kid fucking lost it. He's like, over the hill. We shouldn't. And you know what I picked for Best Picture?

Shakespeare in Love. Because I'd seen it and I hadn't seen Saving Private Ryan because it was too violent. So I was the only one at the party who had Shakespeare in Love. And I remember throwing my hands over the air and running in circles of laughs. Is it Harrison Ford who's like, Shakespeare in Love? Yeah. God, what a great movie. Anyway, The Sixth Sense.

The Sixth Sense. Guys. Yeah. Let's talk about it. Katie, what did you think of the movie? So, this movie is great. I, alright. I have one gripe, as Ben mentioned before the thing started,

but I don't want to start talking about the twist yet. I feel like we gotta build. But FYI guys we are gonna spoil the ending of the six cents in case you want to keep that. Here's my overarching theory that I think we can start with. I think Toni Collette is the secret weapon in this movie. Agreed.

She is the reason. She's not the only reason but like oh my god. I have the exact same piece. Oscar nominated we should mention. Her only Oscar nominated. No way. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I agree that I think she's the turnkey of the entire film. Yeah. But also, Haley Joel Osment is so much better than I ever would have remembered on my own. Like, kid acting in general for me, like Jacob Tremblay, good on you. I don't wish you an Oscar nomination. Yeah, I mean, that's how I feel too. But Haley Joel Osment is great.

Well, he's given a performance. Yeah. Is what I would say. He's that rare thing. Yeah. I what I would say. He's actually acted. It's that rare thing. Yeah. I mean, and he'd been acting since he was like two. Right.

And his dad was an actor. He was Forrest Gump Jr. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he was from like an acting family. I think his dad was like an acting teacher. I listened to his episode of WTF. His father had like sort of been an actor and then became-

He did an episode of WTF? Yeah, it's weird. His dad like functioned as his acting coach. His father, Eugene Michael Osment, is a theater and movie actor. Okay. Who made sure his son read the entire screenplay and, like, sort of coached him through it, you know? But you often see child performances that you can tell are coached because... Well, we talk about Jake Lloyd.

Right, right. And it's like they're repeating the line readings their parents gave them in the trailer. And, like, okay, it makes sense that this kid had a real deal actor coaching him through it. Like he had a dad, someone he was comfortable with, you know. But I mean, he's like, he's got, he's got the fucking toolbox. He's responding to Bruce Willis and the scenes. He's like, I mean. He's a real actor.

Like the scene, which is also incredibly well shot, where Toni Collette's going to the washing machine and she comes back in the kitchen and the cabinets are all open. It's so chilling. And Haley Joel Osment is great in it because he's reacting. Yeah, I think that. That scene is so frightening. It's so chilling. And Haley Joel Osment is great in it because he's reacting. Yeah, I think that scene is so frightening. It's so scary.

Me and Ben were talking about how this movie is really scary for the first 50 minutes, which is how long it takes before he reveals what's happening to him. Insane.

Where you're like, what's up with this kid? But then after that, you get the Misha Barton stuff. It gets even scarier. That's also, I'm not joking. Yeah.

You know, I want to do this. I want to talk about just because this film was so much about expectations, how much it caught everyone by surprise, the film itself. So you said, Katie, you saw it late. Yeah.

You didn't see when it was released. I think I knew. I think I was reading Entertainment Weekly and I knew the twist by then somehow. I think I saw it in theaters, but like in September or something like that. Okay. Okay. But you did see it in its run, but went into it knowing probably the sense of what it was. Yeah.

David, do you remember when you saw it? I mean, what your expectations were for it? I saw it in theaters, didn't know the twist. It was awesome. Eh. That's the sense of what it was. David, do you remember when you saw it? I mean, what your expectations were for it? I saw it in theaters, didn't know the twist. It was awesome. That's the way to do it. I remember knowing almost nothing about it. I barely remember. We're talking a long time ago now. Right. That was too far, far away. My parents hated Bruce Willis.

I very much was raised in a way where they were like... I loved Bruce Willis. Oh, I started loving him after this. But I definitely inherited... This was maybe one of the first times I split from my parents. Where they were like, hey, our movie stars that we like are like Bill Murray. We were like a Bill Murray family. We are a Bill Murray household. This is a Bill Murray family.

But it was. And then they'd be like, we don't find Jim Carrey funny. And I was like, okay, we don't find Jim Carrey funny. I found Jim Carrey very funny. I had to discover him on my own later because my parents were like, Jim Carrey's not funny. And I was like, okay, Jim Carrey's not funny. And they were like, Bill Murray. If you had been 10 when Ace Ventura came out, you would have

no choice in the matter. You would have found him funny. No, but I remember all my friends going to see all the Jim Carrey movies and me going into school being like, I don't see Jim Carrey movies. He's not funny. Like, I just parroted back what my parents said. I was like, he just acts with his mouth too much. Do you guys know why I liked Bruce Willis? Why? North. Oh,

David. I liked North. Do you know why I liked Bruce Willis' movie? Also, I had seen The Fifth Element and Armageddon. So I knew my Bruce Willis movie. This was probably my very first Bruce Willis movie. That's quite possible. Wait, what? I was going to say Bruno the Kid.

It's a dumb joke. Do you remember the cartoon show that was him as a little kid as a secret agent? I do, yeah. And he played Harmonica. Bruce Willis made some weird choices. He made some terrible choices. Bruno the Kid. I remember they had a Wendy's Kids Meal promotion,

and I started watching the show because I wanted to know what the toys were based on. Wow, that merchandise really worked on you. Yeah, merchandise spotlight. I mean, Griffin's a—come on, you listen to the podcast. Merchandise really works on you. It does its number. Merchandise is essentially like—I was a kid where if you had an advertising campaign, you could test how well it was working based on whether or not I would absorb it as a life mantra.

So I remember adults would be like, Griffin, what do you want to be when you grow up? I'd be like, I don't want to whether or not I would absorb it as a life mantra. So I remember like adults would be like, Griffin, what do you want to be when you grow up? I'd be like, I don't want to grow up. I'm a Toys R Us kid. And I thought that was a legitimate answer to that question. Um,

I want to revisit the Toni Collette thing. Cause I do think it's crucial. Cause I think that so many actors would have played her as a trashy, like kind of fucked up mom. Right. Like would have, would have made very easy choices in that with that role. Yeah. And it's that she's not in that, with that role. Yeah. And it's that she's not like that,

that you're like, okay, this is not, you know, I don't know. It makes the first half of the movie succeed. Obviously makes the second, go on. You talk. Well, I was just going to say the thing about, my parents didn't like Bruce Willis. So when the movie was coming out,

my dad was like, that's another dumb Bruce Willis movie. Like I think he even thought it was an action movie. Sure. It was like some dumb Bruce Willis movie. Although it had this like esoteric weird poster with a kid coming out of a glowing light. Remember? Yeah. And it had the first

sense of sight, the second sense of sound. It had the list. So it was kind of marketed as a spooky thriller kind of thing. And that was part of, I think, Shyamalan being like, you guys fucked up the marketing for Wide Awake. You made it be about a goofy nun who plays baseball. Right. Because Rosie O'Donnell's in the movie for like 10 minutes. So they were like, we're to just go hard on Rosie O'Donnell.

So he, I think, was like, we're going to do this as I want to do it. Like, and if it doesn't work, then, you know, I'm out of the business. I don't know. When Bruce Willis's name was above the title, but I believe in the main one sheet, his face was not on it. It was the silhouette of the kid. They later made a one sheet with his face. See, I didn't know if the simpler one was the one that came out later when it was like, there's a spooky

movie you should see. It's unclear to me how much people knew to be scared of The Sixth Sense when they went into it. That's why I kind of want to get at this, because I don't know if I was just more sheltered from it than most people. We're looking at the poster. It's a very evocative poster.

Good poster. I knew very little about it. I think I saw it with my dad maybe in its third week of release. Sure. And he had very much written off when it came out. But it was such a hit that you were interested? Was that part of it? Well, it was like that thing where my dad was like,

I've heard from a lot of people it's really good, it's really scary. And I was like, I don't like scary movies. And he was like, the kid that's supposed to be amazing. And you liked that. I really- He didn't tell you this is from the director of Wide Awake, your favorite movie? I didn't know that until years later. Sure.

Right. Right. And here's what's fascinating. I walked out of Sixth Sense and was like, this guy's my favorite director. Not knowing that he had already made one of my favorite movies. Yeah. Anyway. IMDB really would have helped you out back then.

Yeah. Hardcore. Oh, yeah. But my dad, I really wanted to be an actor. My parents didn't want me to be like a child actor. And so I went to school where we didn't do plays. So when kids were good in movies, I was like very engaged because I had the sense of like jealousy. I was like that too.

Not the jealousy part, but I certainly was engaged by like the kid actors of our generation, like Macaulay Culkin and Mara Wilson and those kids who are like, oh, like I recognize it. Like there's that person again. Yeah. And I remember I feel like the main reason my dad took me to see the movie was everyone says this kid's really good. We've got to see this kid. And all I knew was at that point, I guess the TV ads had the I see dead people line.

So it was like, okay, it's about ghosts. It's about a kid, Bruce Willis, who my parents don't like, but I have no sense of who he is. I know nothing else. And I think a key to this is, I know we'll talk about the twist thing later. I want to talk more about Toni Collette. But I don't remember at that point in time, and I don't know if it was just the environment I was in,

no one primed me for it to be a twist movie. Sure. I remember three weeks into release. No one went in saying, like, holy shit, this movie's ending is crazy. But I think that's probably what adults were saying. Part of the word of mouth. Yeah, maybe.

I don't know if it was just that I was young, but I remember hearing, it's very scary. I remember hearing, this kid's amazing, he might win the Oscar. Even three weeks into release, like, I remember when M. Night Shyamalan makes his cameo as the Doctor, I recognized him on screen in the movie because I had seen so many interviews with him. Oh, he's been like on Entertainment Tonight and stuff? Whatever, yeah, Entertainment Tonight and, you know, at the movies I was watching, you

know, all those shows, he was starting to circulate around as like, you know at the movies I was watching you know all those shows he was starting to circulate around as like you know the young hotshot director because he was like 29 the movie was doing insanely well and it was sort of like that rare thing where like a film just sort of catches like wildfire and everyone has to see it to be part of the conversation yeah and it's not a pre-built property right well then it happened right after the Blair Witch Project is so like there were two movies that did that in one summer, and it worked both times. Now, this is a PG-13 movie, which people forget,

because it sort of walks the line. Whereas Blair Witch Project, I think, was more of a grown-up movie and a college movie. And the Blair Witch Project was that thing where we went in being told, like, you'll never be so fucking scared watching this thing. I remember I was going and expecting just, like, the most terrifying ride of my life.

I'm sure there were water cooler conversations that were like, man, crazy twist ending. But I remember the more dominant thing being until, like, a little later. Well, the kid, but also people being like, it's so fucking scary. Or people being like, you have to see it. You won't believe how scary it is. And so that's what I went in primed for. The film, you know, like all great horror films do, invests you immediately, emotionally in the characters. Yeah.

And it's the way that, I mean, Hilary J. Osmond's incredible. Toni Collette's incredible. Tony Collette's incredible. Those two characters are so well written too but I feel like not hitting any of the overly cliche points of like, okay, the father left them. Sure.

The mother's scraping by. The kid is troubled. The kid's troubled. She was close to her mother who just died. You know, they're really kind of like just pulling it together.

And I love that thing that the movie starts with like Bruce Willis is like, oh, okay, this is like an absent father thing. The kid's holding onto that and it's a scene where the kid walk you know where Haley Dawes has to walk towards him when he's right and walk away when he's wrong yeah and

then Haley Dawes is like oh do you get it and he's like oh no you don't get it and then like leave yeah yeah well it's like my big takeaway from watching this movie is it's like it's kind of a perfect screenplay yeah great great screen in the sense that like you could just make a college screenwriting course just this script. And I wouldn't argue it's the best script of all time, but if you're looking to show hey, here's how a script should function. Here's how you put all the pieces in place that make

everything you want to do later on pay off. Right, but it's also a lot of very active show-don't-tell choices where it's like, how do you get the characterization out? That thing with the game, the mind reading game is so strong. The scene that comes right before that, it's actually part of the same get the characterization out? That thing with the game, the mind-reading game, is so strong. The scene that comes right before that, it's actually part of the same scene,

but the dialogue exchange that comes right before that, where Toni Collette greets Haley Joel Osment, and she goes, so how was your day today? Oh, and they do this sort of face. I won the lottery. Oh, it's a good scene. Oh, yeah, it's such a good scene. It's so good, and I remember that hitting me so hard,

even as a child of like, I recognize that as being the type of mother I see of other kids around me. Like that's the kid where there's something sad and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Yeah. And so it's a single mother.

And they both get it. Like she seems sweaty, you know, and it's like, but she really, really loves him and she's trying her hardest to put a good face on. Yeah. And you know what detail this isn't in the screenplay, but it's visually that there's a puppy and a kitten, like maybe two puppies like running around this house and you don't know why they're there and they keep showing up like in the middle of things and they're in the way. They're not characters, but you're like, oh, this is a house where they would just get a puppy and a kitten, like maybe two puppies like running around this house and you don't know why they're there and they keep showing up like in the middle of things

and they're in the way. They're not characters, but you're like, oh, this is a house where they would just get a puppy. Right. Like maybe to make up for the dad leaving

or something like that. And she is a woman who would want to bring like more helpless creatures into her house. Yes, 100%. No, that character is so well done

and she really downplays it. You could have gone harder on the accent. Totally downplays it. And even the design of the character, I mean the nails are like good but not overdone. The shirts are too tight and too shiny but not crazy you have helen hunt and pay it

forward around the same time another hayley joel movie where she has like been shot in the face with makeup and like has these like crazy like bank teller nails and like you know that's like the bad version of this but you get the sense sense of history, which is she was probably a total heartbreaker. Oh, Toni Collette? Yeah. Totally. Got together with a guy, got pregnant, like 18 or 19. How old was Toni Collette when it came out?

That's a good question. Let me tell you. I would guess 34. No, no, no. You think older? She was way younger than that. Really? She was born in 72.

So this was, she was 27? Yeah, around 26, 27. Wow. So she's really young. Right, so like teen pregnancy, you know? So it's like she was like the prettiest girl. I mean, she's playing a little older is my guess because that's how Holly would treat a Tony Collette. It was like, oh, you're like the ugly duckling

from Muriel's Wedding. Why don't you play like the friend? So Hayley's whole husband is eight in this. So yeah, so she would have had him when it was like, oh, you're like the ugly duckling from Muriel's Wedding. Why don't you play, like, the friend? So Haley's husband is eight in this, so she would have had him when she was, like, 18. Yeah. But I think you get the whole sense of history there, where it's like, you know, reality sets in, she has to start working, she starts aging.

Wow, you're really, you're digging deep into this. Oh, and the guy leaves her, you know? Sure, sure. You know, and you get the sense of all that in this woman who now has like kind of you know had all this. Yeah. And has a kid who's really weird who she loves. She loves unreservedly but doesn't know how to fucking deal with.

No. And also the kid is showing signs of being like an abused kid and that's no good for her. That scene with Shyamalan is the doctor. Right. Yeah. Well and you get why he would look at her askance, because she has all the signs of it, but you also believe in her so much that she wouldn't hurt him.

Yeah, totally. It developed really well up to that point. But what a really, I mean, God, what a good fucking performance. Yeah. And there's the scene, is it the one with the cupboards? I mean, that one's really well played. What a good fucking, because it's one continuous shot with no cut. Yeah.

They're at the table, it goes handheld. It's when she's taking his tie off, she's dumping it in the thing, What a good fucking, because it's one continuous shot with no cuts. Yeah. They're at the table. It goes handheld. It's when she's taking his tie off. She's dumping it in the thing. She's getting another tie for him. A little clip on ties. Yeah. But it's like, he's got such a good sense, Shyamalan, at this point of using spatial geography to scare people.

To establish where everything is. And then without a cut, terrifying people by having them go i don't understand how that could have happened even from a filmmaking perspective yeah how you could have opened all those cupboards that quickly it's the cheapest special effect in the world you get three pas to go run and not even a noise you know like yeah yes but what's great about it too is because i remember that being the moment that really started to like put me on edge watching it for the first time. It's startling. You hear her scream before you see what she's screaming at. So you follow her

from behind. She throws the tie into the washing machine. She comes out you hear ah and the camera spins around and you see the cupboards and he's just sitting there still but looks haunted. And his face is so perfect. There's that shot afterwards of like the palm print on the table. He's terrified but he can't show her why he's terrified because he already is aware of the fact that he's putting her through too much.

Yeah, he's trying to protect her by asking for the Pop-Tarts. But he also knows that she's going to get angry at him. He doesn't like, so good. And yeah, what's the one where she's like, what's the scene where she sort of breaks down and is like, stop, stop being so weird. I need you to be normal. One of the weird scenes where something happens. It's before he gets locked in the cabinet by those mean kids at the party, right? Yes.

It's a tough scene. Oh, God. There's a scene where most movies would have gone into the cabinet. And this movie doesn't need to. Now, I don't know how much of this was intentional or not. But the character of the other kid at school, who's the child actor. Trevor Howard. Yes. Tommy

Tomasino. Trevor Morgan is his name. Trevor Morgan, not Trevor Howard. I worked with him in a film called Butt Whistle. That was not what it was called when we shot it. Oh, wow. It came out like two years ago. Yeah, it was shot like four years ago. I know him mostly from The Glass House and Jurassic Park 3 when he was like sort of the

stock annoying kid. Remember The Glass House and Jurassic Park 3 when he was like sort of the stock annoying kid. Remember The Glass House? Yep. What a weird movie that is. That's like basically Lili Sobieski is afraid for two hours that Stellan scars her. She did a lot of that. Yes. Awful horror movie.

You know how terrible this is? He's gonna. Get away from him. That's that movie. Go, Lili. Go. Different house. Leave The Glass House. Go to a different house. Go on, sorry. Go, Lele. Go. A different house. Leave the glass house.

Go to a different house. Go on, sorry. Or throw some stones. It's called improv. He plays this kid who's been in a cough syrup commercial. Yeah. And now thinks he's like big shit. Hot shit.

And keeps on referencing acting. Like the opening scene where Tony Collette's looking at the window and makes sure he's Is that the same kid? The improv kid? Yes. Yeah, it is. Because Ben was asking me who's that kid and I couldn't remember. Is that Trevor Howard walking alone. Is that the same kid, the improv kid? Yes. It is, because Ben was asking me who's that kid, and I couldn't remember. Is that Trevor Howard?

Yes, Trevor Morgan. It's all the same kid. Yeah. I mean, I was interested in his name. I just like that line. Well, this is a UCB podcast. Yeah, you like that? The improv?

Yeah. Well, because I wanted to pull the clip, and I mean, we didn't really get to it. We were trying to find it on YouTube, but I mean, that's a pretty obscure sixth sense comment. But what will happen is after we record this and post I'm gonna add that line throughout the episode

you'll keep adding it in whenever you guys have like a good riff moment oh whenever we go on a tangent that hasn't happened so far so you'll play it right now but it'll also

at this point be the seventh time you played it yeah but yeah he's like yeah did you like that it's called improv

it was a good choice by me right when I put my arm around your shoulder now I find this very interesting because he's made, yeah, do you like that? It's called improv. It was a good choice by me, right? When I put my arm around your shoulder. Now, I find this very interesting because- He's made three movies with bullies now. Three in a row. Yes. Wide Awake and Praying with Anger, both very bully heavy. Yeah.

M. Night Shyamalan probably really got beat up as a kid. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I think it says later films prove he has problems with criticism. Very good point. Katie, well said. That's a preview of future episodes does he have siblings because he does kind of feel like the special like his parents are just like an omen child you're the greatest whether or not he had siblings he definitely was the special

child right so here's some things i picked up on okay hayley joel osmond's character in this film is kind of the same character as joseph cross character in wide awake sure and someone who's sort of like on the bleeding edge Cross' character in Wide Away. Sure, and someone who's sort of on the bleeding edge of being in touch with something supernatural. Yes, and it's super precocious, wise beyond his years, his parents don't know how to deal with him. Very true. Obsessed with death, right? Yeah, yeah.

Tony Collette is like the Dennis Leary of this movie. Dennis Leary's in Wide Away. I'm learning so much from this movie, I'm never gonna see it. You're never gonna see it. Katie, it's a delight. It's so bad. If you want to know what it would be like to raise Little Griffin,

you should watch Wide Awake. I'm going to listen to the podcast as we record this and release. You will listen and you'll be delighted by our wonderful commentary.

Now, M.H. Hamlin said when he made Wide Awake that his goal was to make a comedy that could make you cry. And so, like, everything the kid says in Wide Awake

is, like, quote-unquote profound. Oh, boy. Must we talk about Wide Awake. But it's like simultaneously like touching and funny. It's so bad. And this film he just makes like this is like the real life version of what the Joseph Cross kid would be. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like in Wide Awake he's like a movie kid.

But he doesn't speak in homilies. But that's the point. A kid who is like that obsessed with death and is that wise beyond his years wouldn't be funny and charming about it. He'd be totally weighed down by it. He would act like Haley Joel Osment does in this film. He'd wear little glasses. He'd walk around.

He'd constantly look like he was on the verge of tears. With the glasses. And the little shock of white hair. And I also think He was a cute kid actor. I can't stand kid actors but Haley Joel Osment works yeah he worked

he's so present that's the big thing it's like he's so we gotta talk about Bruce Willis though I feel like now we're giving Bruce short shrift

because it's true that he was the least discussed I think of the three big performances in this movie but he's pretty good he's very good I wanna talk about Haley

a little more and then we can get onto Bruce you know who he lost to at the Oscars can you remember Michael Caine movie, but he's pretty good. I want to talk about Haley a little more and then we can get on to Brian out loud. You know who we lost to at the Oscars? Can you remember? Michael Caine, Side of House Rules. I was furious. I never wanted anyone to win an Oscar more than I did that year.

That's crazy because I really wanted Tom Cruise to win or Jude Law. It was Michael Clark Duncan number five in that crowd. Michael Caine is not great in the Side of House Rules and I love Michael Caine. He's one of the best actors of all time. I completely forgot that.

Is that his only Oscar? He has two Oscars. Because he's great in Hannah and Her Sisters. He has great in Hannah and Her Sisters, yeah. That is a fine win. But he was not at the ceremony because he was filming Jaws for the Revenge. For Hannah and Her Sisters. Yeah.

He was at the ceremony. He was doing a remake of Jaws for the Revenge. Remember when he lost for The Quiet American and he was furious? And it was like, dude, you were never going to win for the Quiet American. You can see his red angry face. Quiet American was after Saturday Night Live. It was like three years later. It was the year Jim Brody won.

It was the year Jim Brody beat the field that was like Daniel Day-Lewis, Nicholas Cage, Jack Nicholson. It was four guys who've won already. And Michael Caine. Improv's going to go right there, right, Ben? Yeah. It's called improv. All right, we're back.

I remember the narrative being that year. Honestly, the campaign narrative that year was, well, Michael Caine's won before, but he didn't get to give a speech. Okay. So we should give him the Oscar. I mean, they never give it to kids except for Anna Paquin. My dad explained that to me, and I was like, no, there's no way he can lose. This is like the best performance I've ever seen. And like admittedly, I'd seen like 12 performances at that point.

But I was like, this is the best performance I've ever seen and like admittedly I'd seen like 12 performances at that point but I was like this is the best performance of all time and I remember the year before that was Ving Rhames wins the Golden Globe for best actor

in a TV movie for Don King Don King only in America and he gets up there and he's like I'm nominated against Jack Lemmon my acting idol

I gotta give the award to him it's the corniest thing in the world but Ving Rhames totally pulls it off I just saw that for, I guess, the first time since 1998, and it's incredible.

It's so good. Jack Lemmon is so embarrassed, but kind of delighted. Jack Lemmon's like, huh? Oh, okay. And isn't it for like, it's for the 12 Angry Men remake?

Yes, exactly. It's not even for some seminal Jack Lemmon performance. It's not even fucking Tuesdays with Mari over here. No, it's the 12 Angry Men remake, and when he did like the fucking like red carpet line of like posing

for the photographs. This is a real tangent. Oh my God. No, no, because I remember sitting there at the Oscar night and they go Michael Caine and I went, wait, hold on guys,

hold on. Caine might give the Oscar to Haley. Like I really thought Caine was going to and there was the point in the speech where he was like,

oh my God, my competition. There's a young lad out there. He said, Haley, I remember seeing your performance and going, well, there's no chance I win this year. I'm not even going to try to do the accent. where he was like, oh my god, my competition. There's a young lad out there. He said Hayley, I remember seeing your performance and going, well, there's no chance I win this year. I'm not even gonna try to do the accent. But he was like, he said it

and I was like, guys, hold on, he's gonna do it. He's gonna give the Oscar to Hayley Joel. But when this landed, you were like, this isn't just a great performance from a child. Because someone like Jacob Tremblay or like Kavonzenay Wallace, you're like, this is a great performance. But it might be the director, the circumstances, the part. Yeah, and then it's a kid with a lot of good energy,

like, it's being captured very well. Yeah. Like, Devon J. Wallace and Jacob Tremblay are a lot of voiceover, which is always your first clue. Of course, of course. Yeah, there's a lot of, like, okay, and let's try it again. And not that they're not great kids and don't deserve all their success. Well, I mean, and I'm actually more in on Jacob Tremblay after his speech at the Critics' Choice

Awards, where I'm like, wow, this is a poised kid. Like, maybe this kid knows what he's talking about. But what's amazing aboutics' Choice Awards where I'm like, wow, this is a poised kid. Maybe this kid knows what he's talking about. But what's amazing about Haley Joel Osment is he feels, his craft is so strong. He feels really restrained,

which is a thing you don't see from kids' performances where it's like, he's not giving us everything he has. He's holding a lot back in a way that is engaging.

Because most kids, it's like, if you're going to get a good performance out of them, it's them going whole hog. And I remember feeling at the time, not like, oh, this

is an insane fluke performance from a kid, but this is the next major actor. There's no question this guy grows up to become. He's the male Jodie Foster. That's what he's going to be. Yeah, I guess Jodie Foster is our one model of a kid actor. It's so rare for a kid actor. You could say Paquin. I mean'm not not the paquin but you know she's had a nice career like there's there's a few but it's certainly we all thought the thing is he made ai

and yeah i think he's wonderful in that movie but he could never escape them being like that's the creepy kid like that's that solidified like oh that's the kid who's really good at playing creepy weirdos yeah and uh you can't do that when you're 15. No, and then when he hit adolescence and he made Secondhand Lions,

isn't Michael Caine in that? Yeah. So they eventually... See, it worked out. And he handed him the Oscar under the table. Once his voice is cracking, it's like, oh dear.

No, no, no, no, thank you. Put him away. Put him away. We don't want to look at him. Boys don't do it. Boys, it's tough. I'm really, I'm like, I guess Mickey Rooney

had a very long career. Yeah. There's definitely like, like Tyler James Williams, who is an actor I really like, who was on Everybody Hates Chris, was an adorable kid. And now he was in like Dear White People. He's on The Walking Dead. You know, like he's finding an adult career. I mean, there's like Jason Bateman, I guess.

Yeah, sure. But he was, he was a teenager. I just saw him in Night of Cups this morning. Christian Bale. Really? Oh, yeah. I always forget about Christian Bale. But you know what?

I argue a thing with those guys. Although in Newsies, he's like, I'm fucking Christian Bale. He's like, he's already. Wasn't he like 13 by the time he made? But he's an empire of the sun. Yeah, but how old was he in that? Pretty young, I think. Okay.

I would argue that all those examples that were just cited, though, were guys who were kind of simmering for a while. They didn't have the huge thing when they were young. They didn't have the sixth sense breakout on them. You know? And if anything, their biggest things were their biggest failures. Right. I mean, Christian Bale

didn't really hit again until he was a grown-up in American Psycho. And Empire of the Sun was the least successful Spielberg movie. You know, it was a big deal that he was the kid

in a Spielberg movie. Yeah. Did that do less? Financially, I think Empire of the Sun. Dude, we have to fucking get out of the sixth sense. Okay, okay.

Oh my God. Haley Gillespie's incredible. The performance by Trevor Morgan feels like sort of a meta commentary on what most kid performances are like to make him look better. I also wonder if, because I don't know if he could have...

That was your point from 20 minutes ago. Yes. I don't know if he could have known that he was going to get such a transcendent performance out of a kid. I also wonder if it was... According to Ben's printout, when he saw Haley Joel Osment, he said, I have to cast this kid. I'm not... Here it is. He said he wasn't sure if he wanted to make the movie

if Osmond wasn't in it yeah you need a kid that good and I I found it interesting he wrote a part that was a shitty child actor who takes himself very seriously

with the parents and everything maybe he hated Joseph Cross that's what I was wondering because he just made a movie with kids you know I don't know

maybe he did or another yeah another why do we kid making two movies or three movies back to back with kids that's a whole load

you know Spencer Treat Clark is in Unbreakable with a big part and then in Science you got Rory Culkin and Abigail Breslin. Oh, that's right. I was thinking Dakota Fanning.

Yeah. And Village is the first one where it's not really, you don't have like a haunted child somewhere in the middle of the story. But he works with kids a lot.

There's kids in The Last Airbender, there's kids in The Happening and then he made The Visit which is like a kid movie. Yeah. It was the big thing with these kids who are more sort of emotionally vulnerable

than the adults around them, you know, are sensing something. No pun intended, you know? But are like, yeah. Let's move on, though. To Bruce Willis. Sure, let's talk about Brucey. Yeah, Bruce Willis, I feel like we're not giving enough credit even now for being like, we're talking about how he wasn't engaged

for the last 10 years of movies he's made. He's very engaged in this. Very engaged in this. He is. It's a very, it's a very thought through performance. And like,

this is such a haunted movie. Like the whole movie, once you realize, like it is this weird movie that's like caught in stasis, right? Yes. Like Bruce Willis is kind of

just wandering into places. Yeah. And sort of sitting down and no one's interacting with him. Right. And of course, like you're like, And you're not supposed to notice.

You're supposed to think like, oh, this is part of my gripes. We might have the same gripe that we can do. Ghost logic. Ben's gripe corner. The whole time I was so distracted by ghost logic. All right, so what's your ghost logic gripe? Well, just that point right there. When he goes to the house and he's sitting with the mother, Yeah. Like, wouldn't he kind of, like,

realize she never greeted him, made eye contact with him? What Haley Joel Osment says in the big I See Dead People monologue, he says, like, they don't realize they're dead. He says that. Like, they don't know they're dead.

And the other thing he said is they see what they want to see. Right. So there's the recurring thing where he keeps on trying to open the door to the cellar. Anything he touches is red. There's this red motif

through the movie. Yeah, I couldn't figure out if it's anything he touches or just things. Is it the balloon that leads door to the cellar. is red. There's this red motif through the movie. I couldn't think of anything he touches or just things. The balloon that leads him to the cabinet. Red shows ghosts.

There are ghosts around when red happens. Red is like the other side I guess is being interactive. Or being cold. The tent. Or showing them. Which he does a good job

of establishing the visual language like that so you know. Very slowly. Yes. You start to anticipate. You get scared

before the thing even happens. But there were moments where I was like who can see who what is happening ellie can see bruce yeah bruce can't see any other ghosts that's crucial right the ghost she says they can't see each other but when he goes when later in the film when they're helping out that little girl the barfing girl yeah misha barton so it's like he can't see her. No. Bruce Willis can't see her. But he's hanging out but he doesn't know that he's a ghost. It gets really complicated. Bruce Willis' whole haunting

like so ghosts right the idea I think is you're kind of caught. It's the Casper concept. You have unsfulfilled business. You're caught in your old business. So Bruce Willis he's haunted by the fact that he failed this kid played by Donnie Wahlberg in the first scene of the movie who shoots him. Also great in that one scene. Unbelievable.

Pretty brave performance. I was really ready to be like, oh, whatever. It's just a lot of making noises. But it's great. It's pretty good. And it's really scary. Yeah, it's really scary. He's playing a big guy, but he's actually doing it in a very specific, detailed way.

Yeah. And not hamming it up. Wait, where's Donnie Wahlberg? Donnie Wahlberg's the kid who shoots him at the beginning. No, shut up. That's Donnie fucking Wahlberg. That's so weird. And this is like Donnie Wahlberg, New Kids on the Block is over.

He's got nothing going on. Mark is taken off. Mark is the huge thing. So anyway, he's haunted by that professional failure, and of course he's haunted by, you know, he's haunting his wife. Like in this weird sort of way where she can't let him go, I guess.

It seems like every ghost is trying to right the wrong of their death. Well, I think the thing where Ben and I overlap is that it doesn't make any sense that Bruce Willis doesn't know he's dead. I know they see what they want to see and they can't say things, but every interaction with Olivia Williams especially, I think she gets really sold out by it. Olivia Williams, she's amazing, but I think she doesn't have room to do enough because her character can't make any sense. I know. It's a tough role for Olivia Williams because she's Olivia Williams she's amazing but I think she doesn't have room to do enough because her character

can't make any sense. I know. It's a tough role for Olivia Williams because she's literally not allowed to look at him. Bruce Willis not once

ate, drank, or pooped. Yeah because he's a ghost. Ghosts don't do that. You think you would've figured it out. But no this thing he keeps on saying they see what they want to see.

The thing with the cellar he keeps on trying to open the door he can't get it and then the last shot. That's interesting that he can't even literally see a piece of furniture. Right, there's a piece of furniture she's put in front of it. Right. So it's like they're so

single-minded in their goals of what they're trying to do. What are the two things he needs to do that haunt him in his death, right? He feels he failed this kid, so he needs to correct that wrong in the same way Misha Barton has to get the dad to see the tape, you know? We gotta talk about that whole sequence. Because that's like the movie's set piece. The whole Misha Barton has to get the dad to see the tape. We gotta talk about that whole sequence.

Because that's like the movie's set piece. The whole Misha Barton thing. The lingering feeling that he failed his wife to some degree. That he left her. That he abandoned her. Or that his work consumed him and that that was what of course led to his death. And so he thinks he's dealing with this

as an active relationship but really he needs to help her come to some sort of sense of closure with him. In the same way he needs to help another kid, you know. But also the kid needs to help him. That's the kid's, like, salvation is helping these ghosts rather than being scared by them. Now, the movie's device-y because it has to set up these shots and frame these things. I mean, the blocking in the film is pretty incredible because if you watch it with the eyes. It's all very, very specific.

The shot of him sitting in the room with Toni Collette is so ingenious. Right. Yeah. It makes you think. It makes you assume all of these things. It uses movie logic. It uses you putting together what you haven't seen. Like, oh, they've already had a conversation.

Exactly. Right. Because you know how movies work with editing, that you're not seeing everything play out in that way. Right. But the logic that really bugged me, how does he know all the shit that's happening? How does he know that Haley Joel Osment got in trouble in school? How does he know to keep showing up places?

That's all fair. That's all fair. I agree with that. You just kind of have to roll with that because it's true. And it's fine. I still like the movie. But I keep thinking, wait, who's telling him this? I do love the idea that the first time he sees Haley Joel Osment is in the church where he's playing with the little toys. Love that scene. Great scene. Good merchandise.

It's called improv. And Haley Joel Osment, especially when you're watching it in recognition of the twist, is treating him like, here's another one of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, they won't leave me alone. That's why he's so standoffish. But, of course, you're just like, oh, kids don't like to talk to shrinks. Like, that's all it is.

The real reason, you know, I think, A, this movie put Shyamalan on the map in such a big way, and B, the movie did so well, was I very distinctly remember it being a movie that everyone needed to see two times. Like even if you didn't like it. You just wanted to see it again to see like oh he's wearing the same clothes the whole time. Like all that stuff. Which I didn't even notice until the very end of this time. So good. I hadn't seen it a bunch of times. And then you realize like right of course he's like bleeding like from the back of his

back. But in your memory you go like no but I saw him talking to the mom and it's like no you didn't. You saw him sitting in the room with the mom yeah logically i think the film's asking us to believe that like that he is a ghost just appears the second right before haley joel osmond walks in the door you know the mom's not sitting there in silence for a long time and he put he kind of puts it together the way that we do in our head being like oh no i had that conversation with her right because you don't see him really traveling to places i think he's just showing up he just walks around yeah yeah and of course i mean i think him really traveling to places. I think he's just showing up He just walks around.

Yeah. And of course, I mean, I think the toughest scene is the restaurant scene where he's with Olivia Williams. And he's giving this whole monologue of like,

I'm sorry my work is so consuming and like, I just really want to help this kid. And she won't look at him. She won't talk. And then she just like, signs the check, like takes the check,

which is great because he reaches for it. Yeah. Signs and says like, happy anniversary. But even like, God, a little touch. It's tough, but they do it it well a little touch that's so smart in that scene

because i kept on looking for like okay i haven't seen this movie i probably saw it three times when it came out i haven't seen it since then i want to fucking catch him like i want to catch a little thing that he fucked up on and i looked even in that dinner scene and i was like what are they gonna do about the chair how they deal with chair? And the chair is just pulled out enough for him to slide into it that he puts his hand on it like he's going to pull it out and then just sits on top of it.

And it's like oh shit he never moves the stuff around him. That I did not notice. I noticed that too. Bruce Willis never moves anything. But he has papers. Like he's holding papers

that he wrote. But they're his. And the dictionary in the basement. They're all his. They're all his business. He's not moving anything that anyone else interacts with. Right.

But I also think, I mean, they're asking you to- Of course, he does, like, sit on chairs. It'd be funny if he, like, fell through. Oopsie, I'm a ghost. They're asking you to put this together, but I think the reason you're supposed to believe that Olivia Williams put the table in front of the cellar door is because she kept on going into the cellar

and seeing all the shit splayed out. Right. You know? Yeah. Someone's fucking, something's going on in the cellar. And it's foreshadowed with that scene, the first shot of the movie, where she goes to get the bottle of wine and the cellar creeps her out. Yes.

Because cellars are creepy. Yeah. And there's the wind, she gets cold. I don't know if you have a cellar. You have a basement. I have a cellar. It is the scariest fucking thing in the world. And I have to go down there all the time.

It sucks. I agree with you, Katie. Katie's making a person. This is a personal story, so this is a corner. The one logic thing that sort of like was a hiccup for me is how in his mind did he get assigned this

case? How did he know this kid? But that's how Haley Joel Osment works. The ghosts come to him. Like Misha Barton, as he says, she came a long way to see me. The papers, the information. I thought he had an appointment with Haley Joel Osmenton, as he says, she came a long way to see me. The papers, the information. I thought he had an appointment with Haley Jo Osmond. Well, he says that. He says he missed our appointment.

Haley Jo Osmond's probably just like, uh-huh, you and the Civil War general who just came through here. Yeah, I kind of wondered if it was someone he'd had before he died, but I think it does make more sense that he's telling himself these stories. Kind of what we're doing for ourselves now. He's piecing it together. Because, like, the kid with the shotgun wound in the back of his head is like,

hey, you want to see my dad's gun? He's not like, oh, hey, nice to meet you. He sort of acts like this is already his friend who he would have shown the shotgun to. And Misha Barton's line is, I'm feeling much better now, which is like her. You want to talk about Misha Barton? Let's talk about Misha Barton. I think we have to talk about Bruce a little more. Oh, he's great.

I mean, it's just. Oh, I want to point out Misha Barton let's talk about Misha Barton I think we have to talk about Bruce a little more oh he's great I mean it's just oh I want to point out this thing that Katie said because the one the one logic kick up for me is with the papers and everything it does feel a little bit

to me like not explicitly but it's this is also coming a week after watching Wide Awake where the twist ending is the kid's trying to speak

to his dead grandfather and so he he misses his dead grandfather again I was going to say this so he he misses his dead grandfather again I'm gonna say this very quickly he misses his dead grandfather so he's like I'm gonna find God

and the whole movie he's looking for God in whatever form and there's this little cherubic blonde boy walking around at the end of the movie he's like

he's happy and it's an angel from heaven who's come down to tell him that his dad realizes God exists and the kid disappears into a beam of light carry on

my point is especially coming right after this movie, it does feel a little bit like, oh, did God assign him this case? Like, did he get God papers? Not that God literally was like, hey, Dr. Malcolm.

He makes movies about religion and spirituality and death. Yeah. This is kind of one of those movies. It's just more of a genre version of that rather than Wide Awake, which is actually about a kid talking to priests all day. And you're like, this this kid's a weirdo can't he just go outside bruce willis's performance is very interesting yeah because it's very reactive it's very quiet right it's very tempered down and and i think that because he can be a lazy and disconnected actor people kind of think like oh

well that's that's not his movie but i think he is making a lot of choices in this movie it's not his movie, but I think he is making a lot of choices in this movie. It's not like, I don't know, what's a bad Bruce Willis movie? Last Man Standing. Yeah. A Good Day to Die Hard. Sure. Cop Out. Cop Out, where he's just like, what are the lines? Okay.

Yeah. But it is, you know. Go ahead. Well, it's interesting, because I think this is one of those performances that really, like, serves as an interesting case study in what a movie star is and what the power of a movie star is. Because it's like, OK, he's not the first guy you would hire to play a child psychologist. That's not like his obvious wheelhouse, you know? That's fair.

He just was an oil driller who blew up a meteor. Right. Yeah. Right. And like quiet, thoughtful listening. Like it wasn't the Bruce Willis. Not really. Not. Yeah. And like quiet, thoughtful listening. It wasn't the Bruce Willis tool box at that point. Like I would say his last great performance

had been 12 Monkeys, which is a very act-y performance. A lot of twitching and mumbling. I think it's a great performance and crying. But you know, not a subdued performance. He often wasn't playing intellectual. No. And there's some scenes in this movie where you go like, okay, this is a little outside of his comfort zone.

And he's got this absurd hairpiece in this movie. Yeah. And this is prime like Bruce Willis is a bald dude like era. So I watched it again in high def last night. Oh, wow. And I know people always talk about the hairpiece. This is my theory just to very quickly throw out. I think it's his real hair with a tremendous amount of dye in it.

And when I say dye, I mean like painting his scalp to make it look like there's more. Sure. I think it's his strands and then they've painted like a hairline onto it. Oh, it looks terrible. I agree. But for years,

I thought it was a piece and now I think it is a paint job. Anyway, back to Bruce Willis. Oh boy. Bruce Willis' hair truth. The thing is though, you go like there are actors who would be a better fit

for this role as a performance, but would have hurt the film overall because it's such, in a way, a passive character, you know? He's such a reactive character. He's so quiet. He's so coiled that if someone was playing it too intellectually, it might be hard to engage with it. And you have this guy, Bruce Willis, who's just like, even when he's bad, he's fucking engaging to watch. He's just got a good head

that looks good in a frame. You know? He's got a good energy. Even when he's tired, you're like fucking, you get angry at lazy Bruce Willis performances because he's so naturally engaging

that it feels wasteful for him to do nothing other than show up. Because he doesn't have to do that much more. Right. And it is crazy how he's such a fucking charming performer

when he wants to be. But he's turning down the charm in this one. No, I know. Obviously, this isn't the movie for that. So the point is, no, I think what's interesting is he's so naturally charming that even though he's playing someone who isn't charming, he's tampering that down, it comes out enough to keep you engaged in the movie, to use him as a surrogate, to watch these other characters and how they interact.

Sure. And I think the film, even though it's not necessarily like a great performance, he didn't get an Oscar nomination that year. You know, he was sort of like underrated for it. Yeah. He's sort of the key

to the movie working. Toni Collette's the key to like the movie working. She's the key to the emotional part of it. For sure. But I think Bruce Willis is the key to the film

functioning with an audience. It's a tough year. He was never going to get an Oscar nomination. He was never going to get it. That's a loaded year. Okay. Next topic we're going

to talk about. Well, so the movie is like 50 minutes of build up. Then there's this revelation get it. That's a loaded year. Okay. Next topic we're going to talk about. Well, so the movie is like 50 minutes of buildup. Then there's this revelation from Haley Joel Osment, which it turns on. It's crazy to me that

I See Dead People was in the ads from the very beginning and then no one got impatient that you're watching it being like, you know that he sees dead people, but yet you're kind of like, oh, how am I going to figure this out on my own?

And also, I think it's because the movie has its fun sort of internal logic, which you enjoy watching like slowly build, where it's like, oh, what can they do? What are they doing? What are they doing? head. And also, I think it's because the movie has its fun sort of internal logic which you enjoy watching like slowly build where it's like, oh, what can they do? What are they doing?

What are they, you know? Yeah. You also feel like you're in the hands of a master. I mean, what are they doing? I know that sounds insane

but like the what are they doing? Where is this going thing? Yeah. Comes from like, I think audiences can tell when a movie is being made by someone who's so confident

in this is what I'm saying, this is how I'm saying it, just trust me, stick with it. They don't get impatient because they can tell it's going somewhere building to something. Even there is that moment where she's looking at the photos

Oh yeah, and there's the little flashes of light It's like, I think little subtle moments like that, like building up to it that keeps me engaged. Yeah, because you're like, I know And that seems scary because you keep being like, is something going to be behind her? Is she going to see something scary? You know, is this going to be a because you're like, I know. And that seems scary because you keep being like, is something going to be behind her?

Is she going to see something scary? You know, is this going to be a jump movie where like, oh, suddenly, because she's like leaning way into the photos and like classic horror movie

is like, you're not watching your angles here. Or like a face would show up in the flash and white or something. Yeah. I mean, that is like a Blumhouse thing

would just be like a, you know, suddenly. But he builds such an incredible atmosphere in this movie, you know, between the photography, between the performances. Huge. The framing, the score, James Newton Howard's score is really great. Very nice score. So you go into every scene.

A, every scene I would argue is dramatically engaging on its own. There's an interesting sort of psychological tension or performance thing or character detail, even when there's not a a ghost there's no information being revealed and it's actually like an engaging scene to watch these two relationships at the center hayley jonesman and his mom and then bruce willis that you want to see succeed you want to like watch those relationships prepare or build or something so you're following that as the ghost story is going on parallel right right uh it works as like a character story just as well as it works as a ghost story. But they also, you go like anything could be a ghost scene. So you're just scared the whole movie. You're scared the whole movie.

Yeah. But as I was just laying out. So then there's this revelation and then you start seeing the ghosts and there's lots of crazy, like as we said, the kid who blew half his head off. Oh, the mom in the kitchen. The mom in the kitchen. That he thinks is his mom. It's so scary. It's a really scary scene.

And it's also not played as like a simple jump. Like, you know, there's no like, you know, shrieking violin or whatever. They do the thing with the thermostat going down

while he's peeing. The thermostat's really good. And I remember going to the bathroom shortly after that in the movie and being terrified. Like standing

at the urinal peeing and being terrified wanting to run back upstairs. There's the hanging people in the school. Right. But anyway, I mean,

then the movie has one set piece which is him solving this murder mystery almost about the Misha Barton ghost. Bruce Willis suggests that maybe you should help them. Right. They're not trying to scare you. Interact with them. See what they're there for. They must be talking to you for a reason.

And then of course the next ghost he meets is a little girl in a dress who's played by Misha Barton. And she... Her best performance. Her best performance. And she throws up a lot. Seems like she throws up a lot. It's also, there's a weird logic, because I always assumed that his tent was some sort of safe space he created,

but she somehow invades it. Well, the tent's also red. The tent is red. So, yeah, so she invades it. And yeah,

she's got like vomit just sort of grueling out of her mouth. It's a tough, and it's like a jump. Like it's like a, and she's in the tent. It's another one of those things where like, he uses spatial geography. Like you don't know how that's's like a... She's in the tent. It's another one of those things where, like, you don't... He uses spatial geography well. Yeah, like, you don't know how that's possible.

You see the corner of the tent. She's not there. The camera tilts up. The camera spins kind of come off. Yeah, it opens up. And then he goes back down. She's in the spot that was previously empty. Yeah, so...

But he does it all with camera moves, you know? And then, so... And, like, what I like about the movie is it does not go anywhere into explaining, like, how this works. Does he talk to her and say, like, hey, where no no no or like what's your we just heard the pukey yeah he just gets on a bus he's it's you know it's like it's a spiritual thing he's just sort of guided to her funeral i think he says like do you have something you want to talk about right he he he gives her like yeah all you need to know is that he doesn't run that he doesn't scream that

he sits there with her and tries to engage with her. And you see that emotional shift in him. And then, yeah, cuts to the bus. And so then you're on the bus and then you're at the funeral. And then there's this like and like this is the thing. It's like you think, you know, the movie has this not fake out, but, you know, the characters might assume Toni Collette is like hurting her kid. And of course, then turns out the twist is for this kid is that she was getting hurt. It's a what do you call it? Munchausen by proxy.

Yeah. The mom was keeping her sick. Yeah. Which is like just a fucked up thing that like once in a while happens. Right. I guess it's just like a crazy like postpartum thing. But it happens. Yes, it does happen.

I, for whatever reason, I remember seeing it at the time thinking it was a stepmom, but there's nothing to imply that in this film. No, it's just the whole mom. I mean, it's- I had always remembered it being the stepmom for some reason. It's like, and I'll say like Shyamalan,amalan and like I said before, this movie is haunted. Like this movie, every, like there's a sort of weird glacial quality how everyone

like the father like looks at the mother and she just turns around silently and everyone's just sort of staring. And like this is a problem in his future movies. We'll get to it where like sometimes I think he's he has trouble with like the simple like humans talking to each other. Like act like a person.

Yeah because the dad is watching that tape in the middle of like a wake. It's completely bizarre. And like the tape is in a box like you know and of course there's that jump with the box like you know her hand coming out. But isn't it fascinating that if the thing he struggles with the most is basic human conversation he made a movie about people who can't really talk

to each other. No that's why it works. I mean this is why he's such a good sequel to George Lucas because that's also George Lucas' biggest problem but anyway what's crazy is that I was talking to this about with Birthday Benny is like you would think maybe because the movie is not even two hours

long it's like an hour and 45-50 minutes it's 47 with 5 minutes of credit it's 142 tight so you'd think there would be like a few of these. You know, he would like start and it's like, it's that and then he talks to his mom in the car about her mom.

But first he does the school play. He does the school play. And he has this last conversation with Chris Willis. And my favorite moment in the entire film is Trevor Howard gets upstage. He gets on stage,

you hear three claps in the background. Trevor Morgan. You hear three claps in the background and it's like, oh, this kid, this is the kid from the Cops River commercial.

And then he hates, he like can't even commit to the performance because he hates that he has a one-line character. Why is he the village idiot? Why has it worked out? We don't know. Everything's coming up Haley Jossman. It's one of those things where you think maybe the school is like, hey, why don't we give, Haley Jossman seems like he's in a bad spot. Why don't we give him the lead in the play? Come on.

Come on. You were already in a cough commercial. Yeah. Oh, it made me think. We passed this a while back I just want to say I really enjoyed the part where he cause there's the stuttering teacher that gets him the part

when he gives the stuttering teacher it's so scary and fucked up but great like an adult that's intimidated by this little kid and it's like I totally believe it but that's also why it's more realistic than Wide Awake because all the adults in Wide Awake

would be like, because the adults would be like, shut the fuck up, kid. And in Wide Awake they're all charmed by him. No, except for Dennis Leary who is like,

why have I given birth to you? Except he didn't give birth to me. Why did I create you? No, what he's really doing is why did I sign on to this movie? Anyway, it wraps fast.

There's that scene and then there's the scene with his mom which is wonderfully acted. That's her latest scene. Which I believe was her Oscar clip. Had to be. That's her Oscar clip.

And, like, it's classic Oscar clip, but it's also so great. It's so well done. I'm getting a little choked up even thinking about it right now. She really just destroyed it. Because she's, like... The way she says, like, what her question was is, like, do I make you proud? It's so good. Yeah.

And her hand work. I know. She's doing a little bit of the Linda Richman, like the acrylic nails and the hand on the breast. She's a little bit clumped. But it's so subtly done. Comedian John Early, I don't know if you guys know John Early,

but he's a great comedian in New York City. He often ends or middles his standup sets with talking about how angry he is that Tona Collette didn't win Best Supporting Actress. She lost to? 1999. It's a real weird one.

Oh, Marsha Gay Harden for Pollock? That's the next year. Shit. And she's a lead in that movie. Angelina Jolie for Girl Interrupter.

Ah, yeah. Bingo. This is why I always try to go through what was nominated for Best Picture and then always get failed. I actually like in the

film, although I think it's a very sort of showy movie star performance, but the other nominees were Tony Collette, Catherine Keener in Being Jim Malek, which was star performance, but the other nominees were Toni Collette, Catherine Keener, and Being Jim Malkovich, who was crazy good.

Samantha Morton in Sweet and Lowdown, and Chloe Sevigny in Boys Don't Cry. Every other one of them could have won that Oscar. Really good year. And there's probably some other ones like, you know, that was just a hot year, baby. Yeah, I mean, Melora Walters I would have nominated

for Magnolia that year. She's good at Magnolia. I really like that performance. I mean, at least you're not saying Julianne Moore in Magnolia. Like, her worst performance. Yeah, which is, you know. Did you see Freehold? I didn't see Freehold, actually, on your advice. So let's, I mean, we've talked about the

twist, but let's talk about the impact of the twist and everything. Right, and then the last three minutes are just the twist, and it is so artfully done he puts it together on the tiniest thing which i totally forgotten which is that she has his wedding ring and he hasn't noticed the whole time and we haven't noticed that he's not wearing his wedding ring and guys it really gets me when she says i miss you yeah well hayley joel yeah he says the thing of like i have an idea you should talk to her while she's asleep. Yeah, while she's sleeping. Which re-watching the scene now, it's so brilliant

because it's him knowing that Bruce Willis is a ghost. Yeah. And being like, I don't want to spoil it for him. Well, it's very clear like- Because he wouldn't, Bruce Willis wouldn't buy it

if Haley Joel Osment told him that. It's obvious that Haley Joel Osment has figured out that he can't just say to the ghost, like, you are a ghost. Go away. That doesn't work for some reason. So he's got to be like,

engage with him on a human level so he says right talk to her while she's sleeping then she'll hear you even if she can't hear you you know like yeah guys it gets me

she's just trying to get over him you know she's just trying to get with Glenn Fitzgerald or whoever it is who plays the what does he call him he calls him like

Dick Weed or I forget what he Cheese Dick or something he calls him Cheese Dick keep moving Cheese Dick he seems like a good sort I hope she's happy with him now I do too I do too weed or I forget what he's... Cheese dick or something? He calls him Cheese Dick. Keep moving, Cheese Dick. He seems like a good sort. I hope she's happy with him now.

I do too. Dealing antique in Philadelphia. Now, this is, I mean, you know, it's the blessing and the curse of the rest of Shyamalan's career is that rarely is there a movie with a twist this effective, right? Well, I mean, the thing is, Usual Suspects had come out four years before, which is a similar movie that, like, builds its twist case the whole time and then unleashes it in a quick montage and you're melting when you watch it.

But go ahead. I think Percy Bane's got something to say. I mean, I don't know. Me personally, I thought of some better endings. Oh, great. Even like epilogues. Better twist endings? Yeah, I don't know.

I just felt like it didn't do what I wanted it to do. What do you want? Now, Katie, I know you're a listener to the podcast. Ben has previously come up with Star Wars characters. He constantly thinks he can do better than the filmmakers that we're studying. I like this. So this is Ben's twist corner. Wow, he's got a legal pad that is like,

it's like the legal pad where Haley Joel Essman wrote, like, kill, fuck. Yeah. Shut the baby up. It's all red ink. The thermostat just went down in the room. Ben's about to read his twist corner. Here's Ben's twist corner. Okay, so Bruce Willis, right, you have the black

out, open up on this epilogue, right? It's him in the future haunting a family. So it's just he can't leave that house? Wait, but his business is finished. The whole thing is that he got closure. Not in this. So this is a double twist. This is a double twist that actually turns back to the horror thing. To all the emotional converses.

Which really was that he had left the iron on. He just needs to turn the iron off or whatever. He turns back to the horror thing. Okay. That's twist one. Okay. Bruce puts on sunglasses and music plays. He just does a two camera nod.

That'd be fine. He's about to be a badass angel in heaven. That's the twist is that he's cool? He's not cool in the movie. They're not all great. Bruce becomes a ghost detective with Haley Joel Osment. They start a new business.

That would be the TV spinoff. That would be Bruce Willis' career like tanks for some reason and two years later he's like alright let's do a Sixth Sense TV show. I'm sure someone at Disney tried to do that. Or Sixth Sense the animated series. The new Sixth Sense adventures. The Seventh Sense, he's got a nose for crime!

Alright, go on, sorry. The Seventh Sense is justice! Alright, that's better. Bruce later goes to eat and realizes he wasn't a ghost the whole time. Oh. It was a government conspiracy

for an episode of Punk'd. Oh, and Haley Joel Osment just Punk'd him the whole time? That's so far the only one of these that you've pitched that's actually a twist. The other ones are just endings. Yeah, that's true.

I said there were epilogues, possible endings, That is a twist. Okay, but here, I saved the best for last I love Ben two words I love Ben girls locker room

that's what you do with a ghost so the twist is he just goes hollow man he tries to check out some naked ladies those are my Kevin Bacon

you know Kevin Bacon famously made Stir of Echoes which came out the same year and it got fucked by the Sixth Sense because like

it's the same movie Stir of Echoes is a good movie never year and it got fucked by the Sixth Sense because like it's the same movie Stir of Echoes is a good movie never seen it David Koepp David Koepp movie yeah before David Koepp

like you know went off the rails or it's an episode of Punt you already said that one buddy just think about that I think just think about it I think one of the really

important things about this film because Shyamalan spent the rest of his career chasing this film to one degree or another I mean this became became, you know, the shadow that loomed large over everything else he did and over the audience perception. And over anyone who wanted to

make a movie with a twist. Yes. Or a ghost movie. Yeah, totally. Has there been a twist movie this effective since Sixth Sense? I mean, Memento? Remember me? Oh my god. Memento has a very good twist. I don't know if it's not quite the same.

It's not quite as calibrated to like, it doesn't, you know, the movie works, because the movie has another gimmick already before the twist. Yeah, I mean, the prestige also has a twist. The prestige twist sucks, and I think that movie's a masterpiece. But the worst thing about the prestige

is where it's like, you never guessed! And you're like, no! Yeah, I definitely did. I knew who that guy was. Well, I would love to do a prestige episode because I believe that that's not the twist I believe

that's a fake out twist so you don't realize the real twist is that Hugh Jackman's killing himself over and over which is a great twist when you think about it longer and longer you're

like oh my god I contend that the audience is supposed to figure out the Christian Bale thing maybe the movie is pretty high on it though

but the Michael Caine speech at the beginning about you look at this hand so you don't notice this hand. Oh, and it gets to this. I mean, M.R. Shyamalan is a really great magician. This is a magic trick movie. He's making you look at the wrong things in the frame to not notice what's there the entire time. But, and this is the thing that

most twist movies fuck up on, the movie actually works as a movie. If you cut the ending with the movie ended with Bruce Willis and Haley Joel Osment going, see you tomorrow,

the film would work. Yeah. You'd go, weird they didn't resolve the wife thing, but the movie would work. They'll figure it out. Yeah.

Or the sequel. It would work as an emotional story. It would feel complete. Oh, no, you need the Tony Collette scene. Oh, yes. I'm sorry.

That would be the last scene. That would be the last scene. And you'd be like, I don't know what that Donnie Wahlberg business was at the beginning, but, you know, whatever. Table setting. But the thing that happens with most twist movies is either the whole film's constructed towards the twist. So one is they come up with a twist that goes against what the movie's been up until that

point, so the thing falls apart. Two is the whole movie's so clearly building up the twist that the rest of it doesn't work. Yep. Or once you know the twist, you can't watch it a second time because it has no value. Like Matchstick Men.

Exactly. That's a good twist movie where once you've seen it, you're like, fuck that. Although I haven't seen Remember Me a second time, so maybe it'll hold up

a second time. Did you know the twist? I don't think so because I saw it at a junket screening or something. Do you know the second time it's Pearl Harbor?

If you watch Remember Me a second time, it's Pearl Harbor instead of 9-11. Yeah, it changes every time. It's working for some reason. But I think this film works. He's shooting a Benghazi updated version now. It turns out the whole movie took place in Benghazi. I think two things

happened. One is I think the internet made it impossible for a movie to be this twist reliant. I was just going to say, I feel like if, imagining this coming out now, M. Night Shyamalan would be giving like a Q&A being like, well, actually in the scene where he's sitting there with Tony Collette, he's just shown up because that's how, like he would be over explaining all of this stuff.

And I also think Twitter would have immediately people going like, oh my God, fucking twist. It's crazy. And you'd all go into the movie trying to figure it out. So my only argument against that is Star Wars. I was literally about to say the same thing. People did a really good job of keeping all those twists. I mean, not really twists, but like

plot developments. No, all the big things. The one big thing that everyone talked about. Everyone was chill. I don't want to spoil stories on this podcast for no reason. Everyone was pretty good about it. I'm just saying I think even if someone on Twitter wrote oh my god, you have to see Sixth Sense. Ending is crazy. You'd walk into the theater going like, what's this fucking ending

going to be? Yeah. You know? Yeah, of course. You'd have so many people telling you that through so many different outlets, even if like at the water cooler you were like ending's pretty crazy. You'd be like, okay, Tony from work told me that. Oh yeah, but then like every movie blog, mine included, would be telling you to. Right. And there would be the piece that you wouldn't click the link on until after you've seen

the movie, but it'd be like explaining the Sixth Sense ending. You'd start reading one of those pieces and then it would be big, bold, like, now we're going to talk about the ending and you'd be like explaining the sixth sense. You'd start reading one of those pieces and then it would be big bold like now we're gonna talk about the ending and you'd be like oh okay Yeah but then you'd be like oh the ending You'd know there's something you're avoiding and I also think that this made audiences so aware

of twists in a way. It was sort of like a watershed moment for twist movies I'll do some because I bet there are so many junky twist movies that followed this in the next few years. Yeah. Like movies that were just like they were just like you gotta have a twist.

Like you know the studio's just like they love twists right now. There's that Robert De Niro Dakota Fanning horror movie Hide and Go See. Oh boy.

Where at the end it turns out he's her imaginary friend right. I mean it's like almost a direct rip off of Sixth Sense but the ending like doesn't click with the rest of the film.

Hide and Seek. Good twist. Shutter Island. Love the rest of the film i didn't see good twist shutter island love the twist of shutter island because i i think shutter island is a fucking masterpiece personally sorry and i think one of the reasons the twist works there as it does in this and as it does in his usual suspects and these is that you can then watch it a second time and be like oh wow like it gives the movie a whole new perspective these guys are all performing like yeah and you start to see the seams of it, and you start to see the emotion

and what they're trying to do for him. I love Shutter Island so much. He should have won an Oscar for that movie. Apocalypto. Great twist ending. What happens at the end of Apocalypto? We slaughtered the Native Americans. Yeah.

Didn't see that coming. Same twist as Passion of the Christ. Yeah. Passion of the Christ, whoa. I know. Now, this was... That dude got crucified. This was the other thing I was thinking about.

Like, I was thinking about what effect this has had on twist movies after that. And also, this was, at the time of its release, one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time. What? Which is insane. Yeah. I think it was the 10th highest grossing film of all time at the time of its release. Holy cow. Which would never happen today.

No. I'm not even saying this movie specifically because it feels so austere and adult. Mm-hmm. Even like for 16, 17 years later. Never play overseas. I mean, I did play well overseas, but like it's not. But it wouldn't today. Yeah.

Audiences are just not ready to sit down and have to like really engage with something this much that isn't feeding it to you. I hate to be, yeah, a bummer about this stuff, but it's true. But it feels like kind of the last of its kind and I was like, okay. Primal fear. That has a crazy twist. Yeah, and then so like all the movies. I'm looking at some famous twists. All the movies that were like that. Fight Club.

Yeah. Yes. Same year. But a lot of these other movies were. Wow, well 1999. No. A lot of these other movies we're throwing out. Oh yeah. Yes. Similar. Were not as successful, you know? Oh're throwing out. Oh, yeah. Yes. Similar. Were not as successful, you know? Oh, for sure. Sixth Sense was, like, huge, and the twist, like, captivated America.

It's at this performance. Everyone loved Bruce was back. Like, all this shit. But I was like, okay, you know, this is a horror movie. It's a thriller. But it also kind of functions as a drama because it doesn't have these sneak scares. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's not super, like, graphic, you know, other than a few moments.

So I was like, what are, you know, in that sort of tone, like, truly adult, non-franchise movies, what else has done that well in the last 16 years? Well, the only other template for this, and this was before, is The Crying Game, which was sold on its twist, but is a really different kind of movie.

Yes. Yes. But in terms of being, like, a humongous, like like Hall of Fame blockbuster. Oh, yeah. No, nothing. The only two movies I would throw out that I feel like performed financially in a similar way and became as much of a talking point for like a quote unquote adult movie were Passion of the Christ and American Sniper. Oh, yeah.

And both of them were movies that were politicized. Oh, and Ted. Oh, and Ted. Yeah. Serious adult dramas. But, you know, those films people had to see because there was like a conversation. People wanted to weigh in and either defend it or hate it.

With both of those films. I don't think outside of a thing like stirring people into like an argument like that, you could have a film connect this widely with people. Today, I don't think it would ever happen again. You never know, buddy. You never know. This kind of adult drama that gets in conversation gets in kind of conversation going is television now.

Like, this is breaking bad now. Yes, that's very true. Yes. Like, that's the same kind of phenomenon you're talking about. But this film is a great example for me of the difference between TV and film. And I'm not going to argue that one is better or worse than the other. Film is better. Movies are the best.

Movies are the absolute best. I hate TV. But, it's like, this is, the key to this movie is that it I hate TV. But it's like this is the key to this movie is that it's fucking like it's like 102 minutes. You know what I'm saying? It's like tight and it's one story and it does its thing and it gets out. But of course it was

great job Katie. It was the millstone. It was the millstone around his neck as we're going to see. Like it was the thing he couldn't escape where it's like oh he's the twist guy. He's the horror guy and like you know. Right. It became the thing. Because I don't think. He tries to play into it. He tries to play away from it was the thing he couldn't escape where it's like, oh, he's the twist guy. He's the horror guy. And like, you know, it became the thing because I don't. He tries to play into it. He tries to play away from it.

He doesn't know what to do with himself. I don't think he was a thriller guy in his mind. I think he was a guy who wanted to make populist films. I think he wanted to speak to audiences. And I think he probably was like, I'll make this and next I'll make a musical or whatever. He's not George Lucas. You're doing the George Lucas voice. No, because it's like this. It's like more Zizan Sari.

Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh no. Oh boy. No, wait. I just realized that's like this. It's like more Zee's I'm Sorry. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, no. Oh, boy. No, wait. I just realized that's a coincidence. Because I've been working on my M. Night, and I just realized that's a coincidence, and I imply nothing.

Now that I think about it. He's got a high voice. He's kind of like- I mean, he's in this movie. I know. I've got to go back and watch that scene. He's a little monotone. He's the star of Praying with Anger, which we saw.

Oh, I didn't tell you that. He's the star of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah he's alright I feel really sad for this future of this podcast that you guys are gonna like we talk about this movie

that we all like and it's gonna be like then you're gonna get to you know us here benders you got to do the good one I know I mean Unbreakable

is great is my favorite I'm very looking forward to watching that I'm psyched to hear you talk about The Village but this is the big get we gave this to you

because you're a fan you've supported our podcast we had to give back I'm the get. We gave this to you because you're a fan. You've supported our podcast. We had to give back. I'm the blankie who made it to the top. You're the blankie. You're the warmest blankie we got. You got to bundle under that blankie because there are ghosts around, I say. Oh, boy.

Oh, boy. Yeah. I don't think he thought he was a thriller director exclusively. We'll get to that. I think he thought he was a filmmaker. Let's wrap on the sixth sense. The moment the film ends, you know,

the final conversation with the wife, he puts it all together. I'll admit embarrassingly, I remember seeing this movie and not getting the twist at first. Good job.

Yeah. Congrats. I was like, you know what I thought it was? I thought it was that the whole film was his fantasy of what was happening

while he was dying. Oh, that happens. Yeah. Because it flashes back to him dying. It does. Which I was like, okay, that's not Yeah. Because it flashes back to him dying. It does. Which I was like, okay, that's not like

a crazy twist. No, but then like, it's more like him being like, uh, my side is still bloody, you know, where he's like. That's why I thought the way it was shot against the wall,

I thought it was like he was still dying. I thought that's what it was. She's like stumbling down the stairs. I saw it with my dad. My friend Malou's parents were in the theater at the same time.

So afterwards we like, I think went out to dinner with them and she was like, it's weird though because all the other ghosts look so like like and like bruce willis didn't and i was like oh bruce willis is a ghost pretend you know that the entire time and i was like yes of course adults like i was like at dinner with three adults and i just had a lot of fronting in front of adults and i just wanted adults i think i was cool um what a kid

but i think that moment that solidifies it is like, you know, he has a final conversation with the wife, which is very emotionally affecting. He puts it all together, the blood and everything. And then it cuts to the final shot of the video of their wedding. And then immediate fade to black. And then, N. M. Night Shyamalan film. And it just felt like, fuck, this guy. Yeah.

And the letters are going like, they're like, you know, getting wider. And like, his name is Minaj, but now it's Night. And they're like getting wider and like his name is Minaj but now it's Knight and you're like that film was made by a guy whose middle name

is Knight how spooky you know and you guys are going to get into the tremendous ego it takes not just to do that

but to make a movie like this I mean to make a movie period you have to have a huge ego but it feels like an immediate mic drop

to brand your movie that way it feels like a mic drop and it's also that name is so good combined with that genre that it was like, okay, that's what I'm going to associate

M. Night Shyamalan with. Like, that name now... He's very much like, pay attention to me. I'm for real. But it also feels like a Pavlovian response. Like, big twist, you're going to see the name

M. Night Shyamalan right after it. And then it starts to become, if you see the name M. Night Shyamalan, you're going to expect a big twist. Like, the name comes right after. And not directed by, but like, an M. Night Shyamalan film. Yeah, I feel my... twist. Like, the name comes right after, and not directed by, but like, an M. Night Shyamalan film.

Like, it's him going like, I did this to you. Right? You're still processing the twist, and he doesn't even wait a moment, the name comes in,

and you're like, oh, fuck. Oh, boy. Performance review, everyone's really good in this movie. Yeah, there's no bad performance in this movie.

I mean, we focused on the three main performances a lot. No, but Olivia Williams is good. We like Donnie Wahlberg's brief scene. I think Glenn Fitzgerald looks like a nice man, and Misha Barton barfed up that stuff great.

The dad. Misha Barton's dad is good. Yes. Whoever that is. Can I throw something crazy out just to tease for the future of this podcast? The actor is Greg Wood, plays his dad. Go ahead. I'm going to throw something crazy out.

I was in this movie called Butt Whistle with Trevor Morgan. It was not originally called Butt Whistle, but we live in a terrible industry. What was it originally called? A Samaritan, which is an actual name for a movie. I'm going to IMDb this right now. A bit of a weak name. I'm not saying it's a great title, but I'm saying I didn't sign on to a movie called

Butt Whistle. I was a struggling actor. I was looking for a reason to quit the Disney store. They offered me $100 to play a cop in a movie called Butt Whistle. I play a cop. You play a cop? I play a detective. That movie really needed some, like, wow. There's a character in a movie called Butt Whistle. I play a cop. You play a cop? I play a detective. That movie really needed some

like, wow. There's a character named Ogden Confer in it. That's Trevor Morgan's character. That's a person's name. Do you know? Is it? Don't look at this because I don't want to spoil this yet. I play a detective. Guess who my partner is in the film? My detective partner. We're a classic detective team. Guess who my partner is in the film?

I saw Angie Tribeca, so I'm going to say a German shepherd. You want me to guess? Yeah. Philip Baker Hall. Tom Jane, The Punisher. Oh, nice. So it's a movie where we play buddy cops.

What's he doing in that movie? He was not happy to be in that movie, I can tell you that much. Poor Tom Jane. He was clearly. His character's name is Grummish. Yeah, and I think I'm Fenwick, Fenwick, something like that. There you are, Fenwick. Yeah. Play cop. I was 22. I, and I think I'm Fenwick. Fenwick? Something like that. There you are, Fenwick. Yeah.

Play cop. I was 22. I look like I am 13. Got paid $100. They originally promised $200 and then they dripped me out of the second $100 and it was a big conflict.

You got Annalie Tipton. She's taking off. Yeah, she's good. Yeah. She's one of like 18 people who I'm like, which one should I get? Like there's a lot of them.

Annalie Ashford, I get confused just name wise. get confused just name wise which one is the one in crazy stupid love annalee tipton okay okay that's what i was um what i was going to say is uh don't watch that film it's not good um i give a scene stealing performance though uh it's the only performance i've ever liked i just made that up i went with it it's great actors do i'm now looking at the cast of the happening just because that is the most random with it. Great actors do. I'm now looking at the cast of The Happening. That is the most random cast. That is, and I remember it, because remember how that movie was advertised? We'll talk about it.

Where it was like, The Happening, M. Night Shyamalan, first R-rated movie. Oh, yeah. They were really hitting that hard. And they put the R rating in red. The rating box was in red on the poster. And that movie is barely R-rated. It's not even that messed up.

Alan Ruck is in that. Who? Alan messed up. Alan Ruck is in that? Who? Alan Ruck? Alan Ruck. Cameron from Ferris Bueller? Of course, of course. So I'm looking through Ben's 17 Straightforward Facts. The ones that we didn't cover was Michael Cera audition to play Cole. I saw an interview with Michael Cera

where he said that he hadn't read the script and didn't know the tone of the film. So when he did the audition his impression of him doing the audition was going like, I see dead people. He told that on Conan once. Instead of crying like Kelly Joel Osment, he played the scene as upbeat.

Marissa Tomei was almost cast as Cole's mother. Great actress. She probably would have been okay. She probably would have been slightly more to the trashier side. I'm thinking of the wrestler right now, honestly. Maybe she would have been just the Yeah. She probably would have been slightly more to the, you know, trashier side. Because, you know, I'm thinking of the wrestler right now, honestly. I mean, maybe she would have been just the most. My cousin Vinny.

Wow. I mean, I love my cousin Vinny. Yeah. What else do we have here? Donna Wahlberg lost 43 pounds to play Vincent Gray. Yeah, I mean, great. Jesus, 43 pounds? Sean Millan regretted casting himself as Dr. Hill.

He did as a nice little thing to acknowledge his parents who are both doctors. He thought his acting was so bad that he cut most of his scene. Why didn't he cut Praying with Anger? Why didn't you cut the fucking whole performance in Signs? I think he's pretty like natural on camera. He's fine. He's better in roles like this when he just

has to deliver information. Sure. He doesn't look scared to be on camera. No, he's fine. I don't know why he agrees. He's lying. He loved being in the movie. He wished he played Bruce Willis. Yeah. Yeah. Piece of shit. Osmond's father told Bruce Wallace to yell at his son to get him to cry.

Wow. I wouldn't want Bruce Willis to yell at me, even though apparently he yells at people a lot. Yeah. Oh, this is the best fact. Number 14. Willis DJ'd on weekends. Oh.

Cool. In Philly? He spun some records at crew parties at the Philadelphia Convention Center. We didn't even mention this is, of course, his third Philly movie in a row. Well, no, no, Praying with Anger's an India movie, so his second Philly movie. And the film was released on Shyamalan's 29th birthday. That is crazy.

That's absolutely crazy. The day the film came out, he was 29. I was about to say, I'm well past 29, and I haven't made my sixth sense. My birthday is like two weeks, three weeks from now, and I've been telling people. I haven't made my sixth sense. Yeah. I, my birthday is, like, two weeks, three weeks from now.

And I've been telling people, like, I was like, just bump up the age. Because, you know, I always forget to adjust once my age changes.

So start telling everyone you're the age you're going to turn. Right. Now. So I was, like, telling everyone, like,

when I was, like, at parties or whatever, and they're like, how old are you? And I was like, 28, 28.

And then I realized, after, like, two weeks of doing that, I'm 26 right now. I'm about to do it twice you're doing a double bump i bumped up to 27 and then set into that and then when people ask me what age i was i was like well i'm 27 but i gotta bump up because my birthday is about to happen yeah you got you gotta just use your birthday and i did i did a double bump up and the craziest part is i was at a function with my father and i introduced myself to someone who's 28.

She went, oh, this woman was like, I have a daughter. My daughter's older than you. And my dad was like, she's probably the same age as you. She thinks the daughter's older because you look young. And I was like, watch, right? I'm about to tell her my real age and she's going to freak out. And I was like, how old's your daughter? And she's like, 28.

And I was like, yep, I'm about to turn 28. My dad's like, see, told you. So you're all just, yeah. My dad doesn't know what age I am. If you're all just, yeah. My dad doesn't know what age I am. If you asked my parents how old I am, they would not come up

with the exact, they'd know what year I was born. My mom would be right. My mom would be like, you were born in 86. That's what she would do. My dad also doesn't know what age he is.

He wants everyone to think he's older than he is so he's constantly bumping it up. Really? When he was 57, he told everyone he was 60 because he was like,

well, but in two calendar years I'm going to be 60 So like this year The end of this year I'm 58 and the year after that Anyway Merchandise spotlight Oh right So guys please continue to

Email us with any feedback or thoughts As well as suggestions For merchandise that you'd like Blank check branding on. We're going to open up like a cafe press store or a Zazzle shop. I need to see the logo before I- I'm working on it. Are you going to make us a logo?

I got a logo. I'm awful at Photoshop. You don't want that. I got one. I think Katie should make us a logo. I got one. I've worked on a treatment. I'll have it done by the time this episode comes out.

Yeah. You always do have the logos ready right when the episodes come out. Yep. No, it's- I've written all our information on a check. Cool. Like your bank account number? A blank check. No, I got a blank check.

It's his check. I got a blank check. It's my check. You can steal my routing. Yeah, that's right. From the desk of Griffin Newman. Yeah. So we're accepting ideas.

Yeah, and tweeted us. I've just been coming up with some to kind of just get the ball rolling. So I thought a blindfold with like blank check on it. And that would be for. Yeah, because people love blindfolds. Yeah. But it's for listening to the night cast like you're in the dark. Great.

Listening to the night cast. Like one of those eye shades you wear on a plane. You know. Sure. Maybe like a sleeping mask. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Ben, you're so good at pretending to be immediately deflated,

like so deflated. I'll see you guys later. Ben does so much work for this podcast. Erotic fan fiction coloring book. Yes, sir, Benjamin. Yes, sir. We need to outsource some artists for that, though. Yeah, Liam Neeson's estate will sue us.

And it would be erotic fan fiction about the three of us, right? Liam Neeson is still alive, by the way. His estate is not going to sue him. It wouldn erotic fan fiction about the three of us. Right. Oh God. Still alive by the way. It wouldn't be fan fiction of the movies we cover. It would be Griff and Ben and David fucking in the studio. No.

Yes. Thank you. That's what it is. I did not sign up for Amateur Rights. Was that in that piece of paper I signed? I gotta say when I was

listening to the podcast your faces on the Star Wars posters were kind of alarming enough that this seems quite alarming. Yeah. Can I ask you a question though, Katie? Yeah.

As a listener of the show, have you ever shipped any combination of the three of us? No, I am generally anti-shipping. Even like the whole Fen Po thing from Star Wars kind of creeps me out. I just think it's people just,

it seems like it's a whole other thing. It's a harmless thing. People like it, but it just is not. I'm not a shipper either. It's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I get that other people like it, but it's not my thing. I'm not a shipper either. It's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I get that other people like it, but it's not my thing. I'm not a shipper either, but if you're shipping us, please email us, blankcheckpodcast at gmail.com.

Oh, yeah. We will take any erotic fan fiction about the three of us. Will you read it aloud? Yeah, I'll read it aloud. Oh, my God. If someone writes erotic fan fiction. Or you could write an iTunes review for us in erotic fan fiction. Oh, yeah, please.

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, and while you're there, why not rate us a perfect five stars? Because anyone who doesn't give us five stars is a ghost who doesn't know they're a ghost. All right. You're trying too hard. I'm trying too hard. No, let's end there, though. No other merchandise ideas?

Blank check pod on Twitter. Yeah, I was thinking holiday greeting cards, and it could be like that for Valentine's Day. Something like, it seems like it's a nice thing, but then you open it and it's like, you damn Sith Lord on the inside. Something like that. Yeah.

You know, like to kind of prank them. It's like a good twist. It's a good twist. See what I was trying to do there. Okay. We need, I don't want to read these things.

We are wrapping this up. What if the card says, happy birthday, and you open it up and you're like, happy birthday, and inside it goes, just kidding,

happy Valentine's Day. It's a Valentine's Day card that looks like a birthday card because it's a twist because it's... I like that David just sporadically closed his laptop. I did it for the second episode

in two weeks. This is over. It's Pod Night Shamacast. It's a twist. Boom. Thank you all for listening. And I did my crazy thing that I can do

that no one else can do. Oh, your arm thing. My arm thing. Yeah, my friend Jessica did that. Final step of the merchandise spotlight. Remember, if you see

a six-inch Black Series action figure of Rey from Star Wars The Force Awakens please email me I will send you money I check stores multiple times a week they are not

available anymore what was the thing in that article the article about the toy shelf I forget about the Star Wars toys I can't remember carry on don't worry

oh the pops have been decimated that's it the Funko Pops have been decimated that's it that was something I don't fuck with Funko Pops have been decimated. That's it. That was something. I don't fuck with Funko Pops.

Don't send me a Funko Pop. I read that article like three times. I know. Incredible. Funko Pops have been decimated. Because someone at some point tweeted that to the tune of Uptown Funk. I don't know how you tweet that. I don't know how you tweet like a tune.

That sounds like Red Sweet. But it got my head. Like Funko Pops have been decimated. This was an article about someone going to Toys R Us on Force Friday. It's Jermaine Lucier. Who I know and is a lovely person. But this article was hilarious. It was a very dramatic article.

Sometimes I think he gets a little lost in his sort of... I think he would know as well. It was a very dramatic article about how poorly managed the Toys R Us was on Force Friday. And he was like fifth on line by the time he got there. All the merchandise had been run out. And he used the light casually. He was like, there were six action figures left on the shelf. Only one vehicle left.

The Funko Pops had been decimated, which is the most dramatic way to explain what happened to a series of bobbleheads with dot eyes. Those are those weird dot eye things? Yeah. Why do people like those? I don't know. And I love merchandise. I don't get it. I'm not a toy.

I don't do shipping. I don't do action figures. I got zero. I have too many action figures. I'm a little boy. I don't do action figures. I got zero. Katie's a grown up. I have too many action figures. I'm a little boy. I got zero pops. I want a fucking grown up toy, like a six inch black series.

All right. Ray. You're creeping me out. I just want it really bad. We probably run for like eight hours at this point. Yeah, we've kept Katie's. I think I've been fired at this point. So we gotta go.

Katie, anything you want to plug? Listen, fighting in the war room. I got fighting in the war room. So good. We got little gold men. Hells yes. I'm on the podcast at the Film Experience. It's also talking about Oscars.

Oh, I love this. I'm not a host, but I'm on it once in a while. It's a great podcast. And VanityFair.com where hopefully I still work after being here and recording this podcast for ages.

They could never get rid of it. It's great publicity. They're all at Sundance. Yeah, they are all at Sundance. We'll have you back on in some capacity for the Blank Check Awards. Oh, yeah.

Or when we do the 10-part Titanic series. I'm willing to do that as a crossover episode. I mean, crossover 10-part Titanic series. I'm willing to do that as a crossover episode. I mean, crossover 10-part series or just take over your podcast.

Whatever. Let's do it all. All I want to do is record podcasts. Me too. This is the best thing. This is the best art form of all time. You know we said

movies are the best? Podcasts are a little better. 20th century movies. 21st century podcasts. And now it's all about podcasts. And also rate, review, subscribe

to all our sister podcasts on the Newsbeat Comedy Network. I don't care about us. Fuck us. We don't need more listeners. We like the listeners we have. But also tell your friends, please. We want more listeners.

More listeners, please. We need to get a pair over our heads. We need those bucks. We need those fucking bucks. Next week, we'll be talking about Unbreakable. Yeah. I shouldn't say the guest because it's like 99%, right? No, we'll see.

Yeah. We'll see. But we the guest because it's like 99%, right? No, it's a, we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. But we got, we actually have- It's Sam Jackson. We have guests lined up for all but one episode this season right now. Yeah, we've got our guests.

Other than the last film, The Visit, we have our guests for every other movie. I think it's a really good lineup of guests. I think we gotta get Knight for The Visit.

We just gotta get him. We gotta get Knight. We gotta land the big go-ahood. Yeah. Thank you all for listening. As always. And as always. You got it.

I peep not alive. Yeah, I support that. I do. I'm blindsided. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.