Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Social Network

Episode Date: October 29, 2023

Let us take a walk down memory lane to when the Metaverse was but a twinkle in Zuck’s eye, to when Aaron Sorkin was just a much-respected writer and not yet a (groan) director…to when the idea of a prestige film about millennial tech bros seemed like a ludicrous proposition. My, how times have changed! THE SOCIAL NETWORK is one of the most influential and consequential films of the 21st Century - prescient, quotable, and eminently rewatchable. You know what’s cooler than a two hour podcast? A THREE HOUR PODCAST. You’re welcome, nerds. This episode is sponsored by: Stamps.com (CODE: CHECK) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

Mr. Newman, do I have your full attention? No. Do you think I deserve it? What? Do you think I have your full attention? No. Do you think I deserve it? What? Do you think I deserve your full attention? I had to swear an oath before we began this deposition. I don't want to perjure myself, so I have a legal obligation to say no. Oh, okay.

No, you don't think I deserve your attention. I think if your clients want to sit on my shoulders and call themselves tall, they have the right to give it a try, but there's no requirement that I enjoy sitting here listening to people lie. You're part of my attention. You have the minimum amount. The rest of my attention is back at the offices of Blank Check Productions, where my co-host and I are podcasting things that no one in this room, including and especially your clients, are intellectually or creatively capable of doing. Did I adequately answer your condescending question?

John Getz looks mad at you right now. John Getz looks furious. John Getz is shaking his head. John gets mad. Okay. John was happy. John gets mad. John gets mad.

John gets sad. John gets sad. This is like a baby book that I'm reading. John gets happy. And it's just pictures of middle-aged character actor John Getz doing emotions. This is, we should, we should, you should make a thick cardstock baby board. Maybe one of those plush books.

Those are good. So they're soft so she can, you know, your daughter can go to sleep nuzzling my, John Getz feels things. I guess it's called John Getz Blank. John Getz Blank. Right, right, right. Yeah. So it's just called John Getz feels things. I guess it's called John Getz blank. John Getz blank. Right, right, right. Yeah. So it's just called John Getz and it's just this headshot. His professional

headshot is on the cover of the book. When John sees copies, John Getz, happy. This is an episode on John Getz. This is an episode on Blood Simple actor John Getz. Yes. Apparently, he was in the Fatal Attraction series recently. Did you know they did a new Fatal Attraction series?

Yes. Well, because... No. Yep, Paramount Plus. Lizzie Kaplan not being in... Party Down. ...is because of two things. One, Fatal Attraction, the series,

which everyone loved, digested. Everyone was just talking about it. We got nourishment from it. I totally missed this. No, you didn't. Ben, you didn't. You watched it four times. Oh, yeah.

Okay. You forgot. I mean, you tried to miss it, and then it popped up on your TV, and it said, I don't want to be ignored, Ben. I won't be ignored. It was the first limited series to exist exclusively in pop-up ads.

What's the other reason? Don't ignore me. Other reason she wasn't in? Well, Fleischman got in trouble. Fleischman. Speaking of Fleischman, right. Speaking of Fleischman. John Getz, who I feel like has this reputation where it's like, oh, and like the lead

from the Coen Brothers' first movie. Right, what happened to the other guy in the Coen Brothers? You know, oh, Francis McDormand's in Blood Simple. That's cool. You know, M.M. at Walsh. That's cool. Right, someone was saying this to me recently, like, and that's so weird. The lead in that movie, like, never worked again. I'm like, you've seen that guy 80 times. You just never clock

it's the same guy. And he's always looking at Mark Zuckerberg. Yes. Just with the kind of like, that guy 80 times you just never clock it's the same guy and he's always looking at at mark zuckerberg yes just with the kind of like this you're ruining my case in every movie and for like 20 years settlement price every time you do one of these sorkin monologues for 20 30 years he was in movies looking at mark zuckerberg exasperated and people said john this doesn't read zuckerberg's not a character in this film. This energy's being wasted. Look at the other people in the scene.

And he went, someday, there's going to be a Zuckerberg in that chair over there. You'll see. You'll see. And they're like, well, that's fine, but you're fired. You're fired. No, he works all the time. He's great.

This is... Great in this. He's great in this. Number one performance in this, with a bullet! No competition. This is our take. This is our take. This is our hot take. We have no guests on this episode because we need to get straight to our hottest take. Ready?

I'm going to even hype what you're saying. The only good performance in the social network. Dog shit. Dog shit. Gets drags this movie to a B minus. Phoning it in. John gets. What if that's what we did? We were like, we have no guests for the social network because we need three hours to poop on it ourselves. Yeah, and boost

Getz. And boost Getz. Yes. He's gonna get his flowers in this episode. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies. Directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make

whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a mini-series on the films of David Fincher. And it is titled Curious Pod of Benjamin Buttcast. V. Nope.

Drop the V. It's cleaner. There you go. I was setting you up there. Thank you. the V. It's cleaner. There you go. I was setting you up there. Thank you. It was a little oop. Thank you. Today we're talking about The Social Network.

Mm-hmm. The movie that... Well, it's odd because on one hand he was a guy who got to do what he wanted the way he wanted to do it. Okay, sure.

But this is the movie that finally kind of solidifies him as like, oh, Fincher, the movie's a hit, the critics love it, it's an Oscar heavy hitter.

He's at the top tiers of the conversation now. I feel like often with him, up until this point, all three were not in sync, right? Right. You have movies like Seven that are a huge hit, but it's not an Oscar movie,

and critics dismiss it a little bit. Keep going. You're totally right. Zodiac, critically beloved, but bombs in theaters, gets no nominations. Yeah, and I do think its critical love only grew over time. Totally. I think it was critically respected on release. Panic Room hit.

But kind of... Yeah, she hit him with a sledgehammer. She hit him with a sledgehammer. Treated as a programmer. Which it was by design. Then Benjamin Buttons' Oscar breakthrough. The critics are a little... Critics are a little tepid. Everyone's a little tepid in a way.

Right. And then this is the movie where it's like Fin everyone's a little tepid in a way right and then this is the movie where it's like fincher's kind of assumed his place in film culture that people maybe since the early 90s had been predicting he would and it starts uh the the most kind of uh successful three film run of his career before the industry collapses sort of true yeah i guess his run from zodiac to gone girl i do think is the peak of his career and in terms of just uh cultural sort of being being culturally locked in uh yes. Not that he was doing badly before that run and not that he's really been doing badly after that run.

It's just been more TV, obviously. Yes. And we'll talk about it in future episodes, but it is one of these things that is kind of bleak in terms of looking at the industry. We can also discuss part of it is career decisions that he made that shifted the winds

of the industry along with him i suppose so yeah he does like starting netflix basically by mistake almost he kind of hoists his own petard in a certain way i mean nobody nobody knew it was like oh we don't look we can't talk about no no but there's just a fascinating thing of like social network gone girl uh social network dragon tattoo gone girl right and then why does it take so long for him to make another movie he has multiple tv shows shut down in that time he has films he can't get off the ground that's part of it he starts attaching himself to things where you're like why would fincher want to do that now we'll talk about it yeah of course we go um but this is the movie where it feels like, oh, now

he's just going to keep being undeniable. And then it only lasts so long. Sure. Well, not by his own. Things are finite. Dust in the wind. Social network. And also, you know, this film probably should have won Best Picture, but a certain king had to speak.

Yeah. Well, with great difficulty. I know. Give him some credit. It was not an easy speech to speak. Yeah. Well, with great difficulty. I know. Give him some credit. It was not an easy speech to make. No. Honestly, I salute him for working so hard in his speech. It's fine.

I just don't know that he needed an Oscar for it. He was already king of all England. Yeah. You know? I think you like that movie more than I do.

I mean, I think that movie is undeniably a watchable good time. I agree with that. Right. I mean, I don't movie is undeniably a watchable good time. I agree with that. Right. I mean, I don't know what you mean. I don't really have a ceiling

for it beyond that. I guess it's sort of a good version. There are certainly worse versions of that kind of movie. Many that were made after that movie.

Yes. Because it won Best Picture and was kind of a box office phenomenon. Yeah. So I do think, yeah, you know, it's pretty good.

Right. That's the other wild thing is that Social Network was a big hit, but like King's Speech made twice as much. We can talk. I can look during the box office. It certainly did very well. Now I want to see where I had the King's Speech on my list in 2010 because I have the Social Network at number one of 2010. I have King's Speech at number 40.

You picked Social Network as your movie of the decade. I'm going to drop King's Speech down a couple, just as we, it's too high. Yeah, just to smack it down. You had Social Network as your top film of the 2010s. I think that it makes sense as the best movie of the decade, even though it's at the start of the decade. Yes. I mean, there's, calling things the best movie of the decade, even though it's at the start of the decade. Yes.

I mean, there's... Calling things the best movies of the decade is very... We're getting really fungible, whatever, but yeah. I think it makes sense. It is one of the most rewatchable films of modern history. Yeah. And I

rewatch parts of it a lot, as much as I watched the whole thing but this is one of those films where because I knew it was coming up on the schedule I have sort of been edging yeah I knew you were going to say that I want you to know I was not planning on saying that only as I got

halfway through the sentence I went should I go to edge instead of abstain back in April you flipped your calendar over to september and wrote like on this day say edging when talking about social network uh i just points i don't know the last time i watched it in full sure although i've seen a number of times and uh watching it again last night not that i don't give this movie credit my mind i was just like jesus christ were they ahead of fucking everything

not just it's just right it's a harbinger of everything absolutely how the how culture works because and yes how uh also just a hugely influential movie like just just there are so many movies that are trying to do this yes then never will be able to come close obviously no uh and i saw and enjoyed Dumb Money just the other week. Yeah. About my review of it. And that is a movie that is... It's not like...

There's nothing about that movie's attitude that's like, this is the next social network. But the attitude of that movie is like social network. We're going to try... It becomes a genre. It's a genre. It becomes a genre. Yeah.

Look, I've talked about my love for it before on this podcast. I think Blackberry is the only thing that has come close in the now 13 years since this movie came out. I think there are others, but Blackberry is good, though. Yeah. That's a good example. There's stuff like Moneyball you can say where it's like Moneyball gets the boost from a Sorkin rewrite coming after this. Don't count those, right? Because those are Sorkin scripts.

So, yeah, that's a little... Right. Yeah. But, yeah. count those because those are short conscripts so yeah that's a little right yeah but yeah i mean i think the big short which is not a movie i love is the most obvious movie that's ripping off the social network even though people maybe don't make that connection or not and now the big short is seen as a template and i'm like no it's version 2.0 i mean uh yeah but big shorts adding other stuff into yeah it Yeah, it is.

Bad things. Right. It's like you have a nice big stew, and then the Big Short's pouring in some junk, in my opinion. I mean, whatever. It's okay. Maybe we'll cut all this out.

Yeah, it's fine. I think when I saw this movie at the time, what was impressive to me was how quickly it had digested culture and processed it with a kind of clarity. Right? Because like dumb money I probably will have seen by the time

this episode comes out, but at the time we're recording it's just going into... It's coming, it's widening this week, I believe. Right. Yeah. And it's one of those things where you're like, how are we already making movies about things that happened during the pandemic? I have a whole take about it. I have a whole take about it.

Of course. But I'm like, and as much as I expect to find dumb money fun. You may not. I mean, it might be your least favorite thing of all time. Possibly. Fast X came out this year. It's not going to be my least favorite thing of all time. my least favorite thing of all time.

I don't expect that the movie is going to make some like huge trenchant point about the way we live now that seeps into my entire world. No, nothing's going to be the social network. Maybe ever again. That's okay, but... At the time I was like, how

incredibly precise and quickly they process the things that just happened in the world we're living in right now. And then I think in certain ways that I don't even know if I can give them credit for, they just, it feels like this movie has coded into it an understanding of where we were going. Ben, what do you want to say?

Well, Ben Misrich, the writer of the book that D dumb money is based on producer ben speaking here yes um he wrote he wrote the book that this book is movie is based the accidental billionaires and the book that dumb money oh yes it's called um the anti-social network yes look i i don't want to speak ill of ben mesrich but he's an absolute hack who turns out one of these a year basically to get them option to make movies. Have you seen the Wikipedia photo?

It's terrible. It's not great. It's one of the worst. But he's from New Jersey. Well, I know. He's a New Jersey Ben. He's giving... It's not a good photo.

It's not a great photo. And it's also 12 years old. But in a bad way. He wrote 21 as well. Yeah, he wrote... Right. He's written a lot of things that have been turned into movies. Yes. And then you pick up the book and you lot of things that have been turned into movies. Yes.

And then you pick up the book and you sort of flip through it and you're like, oh, this is barely a book. This is basically just fodder for the screen. Not to get ahead of the dossier, and I'll ask in advance

for permission to let me be frank. David? Please be frank. Thank you. Go ahead, gentlemen of the Senate. But wait a second. There are no crimes in podcasting.

Kevin Spacey bought the rights to Ben Mesrich's book that became the movie 21, which he co-starred in and produced, set up at Sony, and then basically a couple years later, the word comes out that Ben Mesrich

is writing Accidental Bullionaire. And Spacey basically gets the rights before the book has even been finished. Yes, 100%. Sorkin starts writing

before the book is finished. Right. Like, this movie is being developed in tandem with the book, even though the book comes out first and they purchase the book's rights. The book eventually came out like a year before this movie came out. We'll talk about it. But it's basically like this movie is using the same research that the book is called, rather than Aaron Sorkin reading this book and using it as

a template if that makes sense. I'm saying Ben Mesrich is a little bit got a little lucky on his credit for this movie and the money he was probably paid for it. But he was there at the right time. He's cashing that check going forward. I mean maybe he's a huge

blankie in which case I apologize Ben Mesrich and I'm sorry that we fucking slammed all over your Wikipedia picture. Try and maybe change it. That's one of those things like if you're the guy who's there at the right time, maybe we should change it for him. Yeah, actually, let's get in there. Let's get in the

tools here on the ground. You're doing the research, whatever it is, right? And then you basically just like have your publishers go to all the movie studios and go like, he's working on this subject now. They're just like, let's just buy the rights

before anyone else does. I mean, that's what they did with Dumb Money. Yes. That's 100% what they did with Dumb Money. Correct. Look, all right.

The Social Network, a major film from David Fincher. Wait, he was the co-host of season three of the World Series of Blackjack on the Game Show Network? Sounds great. He represented Massachusetts as a contestant in the Sexiest Bachelor in America pageant?

Sure, I was in that pageant, too. I moved to Wyoming. I carpetbagged just to get in there. Then there's got to be a better picture of him. Probably. Keep talking, David. I'm going to search. That sounds good.

Keep talking, David. I'm going to search. That sounds good. This film comes after a fairly busy period in Fincher's life. You know, Zodiac and Button come out back-to-back years. Yes. And those are two pretty massive projects. Two films that were years in the making.

Exactly. And so that had kind of stopped. I would say that had been a temporary cure. Fincher's case of the Attachees goes into remission for a while because he's actually working on two long-running projects.

Please remind the listeners what you mean by Attachees. His name being like attached to a million different, you know, sort of up-and-coming or long-gestating Hollywood scripts.

Torso! Well, that's, okay, so that's the thing. button it's like all right buddy you finally got your oscar nomination this was a hit what do you want to do one of them was an adaptation of brian michael bendis's graphic novel torso torso um uh a script by aaron krueger that had a killer cast attached. Cast was going to be Matt Damon, Casey Affleck, Rachel McAdams, Gary Oldman. And Torso is a sort of different take on Elliot Ness, who we all know from The Untouchables and the Al Capone thing.

And it's sort of a true crime thing about these torso murders. It's a very cool graphic novel. Fincher wanted to shoot it in black and white. Project falls apart because of that. Supposedly. David Lowry, friend of the show, has also been attached to Torso at some point. Really?

Many years ago. Wow. Brian Held, you'll enjoy a script for Paul Greengrass at one point. Never really materialized. Okay. Another thing. In 2007, Paramount acquires the rights To some little graphic novel called

The Killer It'll never happen Wait a second Yes it will Check in with us in a month That is Fincher's latest film Variety in 2008 reported that Fincher And I remember this and being hyped for this

Was going to direct an adaptation of Charles Burns' Graphic novel Black Hole. A book that rules really, really good graphic novels. I feel like we've recommended it to Ben several times. Yeah, and I haven't read it. No, it's a book you'd love. I'm looking at Torso. This looks sick. Yeah, Torso is cool. Black Hole,

bunch of kids in Pacific Northwest start to get weird sort of body-modifying, disease-y. It's all a metaphor but like all kinds of weird stuff starts to happen to them. It's cool. But that announcement coming, you know, less than a year after Zodiac, I'm in the mode where I'm like this is exactly what I want to fucking see him

do. That has since, you know, passed through Alexandra Aja. Rick Famuyama. I think it's most recently attached. Then, there's rumors that Fincher might do an animated film

based on some stories from Heavy Metal Magazine. Obviously, there are heavy metal movies that have been made. But this was, I think, going to be an omnibus movie. Right. Kevin Eastman, Tim Miller, Zack Snyder. Kevin Eastman is...

No, he, yeah. Del Toro, Verbinski, James Cameron. You know, a lot of names have been attached to this thing. Because this is also the time that he starts boosting Tim Miller really hard. Tim Miller, who eventually makes the Deadpool movie, but worked with Fincher a lot and did a lot of his title sequences and such. He announces at one point that he's going to produce a CGI adaptation

of Eric Powell's The Goon. That's the other thing. Fucking Fincher's attaching himself to comics left and right at this point in time. Yeah, well, he... Whatever. He's smart. Eric Powell's The Goon, which rolls.

Okay. That's not in the dossier. Okay, well, I'm just telling you this. This is the thing I know. Okay, he knows. Because he was a good director. But it felt like he kept on trying to generate projects for Tim Miller. And Heavy Metal was one of those to sort of boost Tim Miller to video, from video game

animatic and opening credit sequence special effects guy to actual filmmaker. The other thing, and this is funny, at one point Fincher was attached to a movie called Seared, which later becomes a television show called Kitchen Confidential, because it is based on Anthony Bourdain's

writing. Yes. But then Fincher gets attached to a different project called Chef. Not the Jon Favreau chef. Nope. A different restaurant set romantic comedy with Keanu Reeves Attached to star Fincher described it as good and chewy A celibate sex comedy if that means anything

That Transmutes and Takes form and eventually becomes Burnt The Bradley Cooper starring Chef movie Cooper basically makes at the peak of his powers The star of Kitchen Confidential

No he was the star of Kitchen Confidential. Not the star, but a... No, he was the star. He was the star. He played Bourdain. Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of people in that show, so it's fun to think about. Yes. But that's like, Ben, just weird cultural artifact. Bradley Cooper was on a Fox sitcom in which he played Anthony Bourdain. It was a

flop. A couple years before he became a movie star. Didn't really, you know, had an all-star cast. Stack supporting cast. John Cho was on it. John Cho, Nicholas Brendan, John Daly, Bonnie Somerville. It lasted less than a season. And it was set in a kitchen? It was based on Bourdain's book.

Keep it confidential. Jamie King. Franklin Jella. But like a total flop, right? And then 10 years later when Bradley Cooper's at the peak of his stardom, he's like, all this fucking work I put in again ready to play Bourdain.

I want to put it to good use. I cut a whole bag of onions. Exactly. I can still make mirepoix better than anyone. Yeah. So he finally gets his hands on this script that Fincher and Reeves and other people had wanted to make for so long. And he makes it. It comes out, like, within six months of American Sniper.

Sure. Yeah, 2015. No one wanted to get burnt. No one got burnt. You're burnt! That movie sucks. Yeah, and that movie also has an insane supporting cast. It does.

It should be good, and it's just not very good. It eats ass. It does kind of eat ass. In 2008, Ben Mesrich, possibly hot off the hottest bachelor competition. I'm not sure when that was, Griffin. 2000. Okay, so he's not really hot off it.

No, he's maybe settled down at this point. Gets an email at 2 a.m. in the morning. That's right. A.M. means in the morning. That says, I'm a Harvard Harvard senior and I have a fantastic story for you this email is from Eduardo Severin

he tells the whole story from his perspective of the launch of Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg's screwing him out of the company in his opinion blah blah blah you know Mesrick gets excited. He turns this quickly into a book proposal,

The Accidental Billionaires. The proposal is what gets circulated through Hollywood. Scott Rudin might have heard of him. It's just the proposal. It's just the proposal. And it ain't that Sandra Bullock movie, neither. Scott Rudin finds out

that he wants the rights. Turns out they're already owned by Mike DeLuca and Dana Brunetti. Rather than fight over the rights, Brunetti and DeLuca bring Rudin on board, probably because he was holding two phones in his hands ready to throw. No, I'm sure it's because he asked very nicely. Rudin, to his credit, is like, this will be great for Aaron Sorkin. I guess, you know what? I shouldn't say that, to his credit, is like, this will be great for Aaron Sorkin.

I guess, you know what? I shouldn't say that's to his credit because I guess a lot of people in 2008, probably 2009, would have been like, oh, Aaron Sorkin might be a good writer. Yeah, that was also like one of Scott Rudin's three default modes.

It was. Aaron Sorkin had written a screenplay. What if Aaron Sorkin wrote this? Had written a screenplay called The Farnsworth Invention about the invention of TV, which is one of those famous, never made into a movie.

It was produced on Broadway. It was turned into a play eventually, yes. Never saw it. The play was good. Click. Yes. Hank Azaria and Jimmy Simpson did it on Broadway. And so Sorkin, in his classic way, with all of these projects, with Steve Jobs, with

Moneyball, like any big movie he's written. I don't know anything about Facebook. I don't know anything about Mark Zuckerberg. I don't know that I've ever even heard of Mark Zuckerberg. I don't know anything about, you know, this world. But he cracks the book, and he's like,

three pages in, I want to do this. But he cracks the proposal. Cracks the proposal. And he's like, wow, Reynolds and Bullock have a lot of chemistry. This is good the proposal and he's like wow Reynolds and Bullock have a lot of chemistry this is good no he's immediately like I really get it even though

I'm not on Facebook this you know has all the elements of great storytelling friendship loyalty class jealousy betrayal struck me as a big classic story he signs up and gets a Facebook page starts posting minions memes really as much as this is technically an adapted screenplay and sorkin wins adapted screenplay

uh he didn't have the book right so it's not really like he's basically going off some notes you know like and sort of a general structure yeah. But he doesn't really have much to do with the actual book that exists. Mesrich's book is really Eduardo Saverin's point of view. Yes. Sorkin is way less interested in that. I would say that Saverin is sort of the protagonist of this movie, kind of, but like, not really. Like, he's maybe where the audience's sympathy lies the most when you're watching it the first time. He's, quote unquote, the heart of the movie, kind of, but not really. He's maybe where the audience's sympathy slides the most when you're watching it the first time.

The heart of the movie. Zuckerberg is the protagonist. But also, there's lots of stuff from the Winklevoss perspective. It's not really a single protagonist movie. And obviously, Eisenberg is the lead of the film. That's understandable. And

Saverin then, as this book is coming out and then this movie is coming out basically goes into hiding because his lawsuit with zuckerberg reaches ahead settles he signs an nda saverin then moved to singapore because he doesn't like paying taxes uh-huh um so saverin kind of disappears yes um apparently when the movie was released he did get in touch with scott rudin and was like i'd like to see it and they like you know give him a private screening okay but that's kind of it yeah the book itself is like poorly regarded i would say yeah and but when you read it now when you read it now it basically ends with like anyway who knows what'll happen because all this stuff is tied up in litigation and you it feels like you're just sort of reading

like a sketch of a book. Like, you know, you're kind of like, oh, well, this is just like, it's also like, as good as this movie is, it's talking about the very beginnings of Facebook. And that's it. Like, you know, it's ending with them having 1 million users.

Like, it's really just the germ of Facebook. Well, the big thing is that Sorkin gets access to the transcripts of the depositions. And to a lot of emails that Zuckerberg sent. Because this was all part of the lawsuit. But that's always a big thing he's

pointed out is a larger percentage of the movie that people would expect is me just using direct transcripts verbatim. Right. Like, you know, there's a lot of Sorkin dramatization here, right? And there's Sorkin creation here.

But also a lot of the stuff is like, because obviously a big part of this movie is Zuckerberg starts going like, they got me totally wrong. I never would do any of this. I never acted like this. And Sorkin can always point out and be like, that's like, I lifted that.

Sure. There's stuff that he's lifting. From a transcript of what you said. I mean. In front of lawyers. Well, okay. So, all right. Rudin goes to Facebook and says,

would you want to cooperate in any way? Could we get zuckerberg yeah talk to sorkin and they uh facebook says well you'd have to not call the company facebook in the movie and it would have to not take place at harvard and they're like well all right well then forget it um sorkin doesn't really care about that uh like that he didn't get to like hang out with you know zuckerberg or whatever and he's just like i just think't get to like hang out with, you know, Zuckerberg or whatever. And he's just like, I just think of this as like a shy and awkward and sort of aggressive in ways,

you know, not fitting in 19 year old. I get that, you know? Yes. He, he claims Sorkin's idea is basically like for basically the entire movie. He's an anti hero at the end.

He's kind of become a tragic hero. He's not a good guy. Um, but it, you. But Sorkin says, he's always talking in this kind of florid language. I try to write like he's making his case to God why he should be allowed in heaven. Mark's line, if you were the inventor of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook.

That's coming from me, Sorkin. That's me unzipping myself and stepping out and shouting. And every single hack who comes out of the woodwork and says, 10 years ago, I wrote the script that absolutely nobody read anything about, but it also had a scene in the Oval Office, so you stole it from me. Like, if you were the writer of The American President, why isn't your name on The American President? Yeah.

Aaron Sorkin. Big chip on his shoulder, even though he's pretty much the most successful Hollywood screenwriter of my lifetime. And that's why he's so good for this movie. And for Steve Jobs. He's so good at writing egotists yes yes I mean I guess I want to start seeding this

through here okay I regrettably spent some time on reddit this week disgusting hive of scum and villainy but someone in the blank check subreddit was there was there was a good discussion going on Hive of Scum and Villainy. But someone in the Blank Check subreddit was... There was a good discussion going on.

Was the live Kinsey scale going on the left sidebar? Yeah, people were getting horned. After listening to this episode, I'm moving David up to a four, Griffin down to a two. Sorry, go on. Wait, we should be doing the voice. Sorry, we have our

voice now. I mean, could they really talk like this? Who gave them the right? All right. What were you doing on Reddit, you disgusting freak? I apologize. That's my fetish. My humiliation fetish.

It's the worst kind of humiliation fetish, being humiliated by Reddit. No, this was a discussion I found very interesting. And it's been kicking around in the old bing bong in the week leading up to doing this episode and re-watching the movie. You know?

People were saying like what's interesting about the social network and what probably makes it work so well is the push and pull between Fincher and Sorkin. Not just as artists, right? Which I feel like is much discussed.

But their differing views of Zuckerberg. And I forget which take was put out first, but like, well, Sorkin loves the guy and Fincher's clearly kind of terrified by the guy. And that contrast works. And then someone made a really good case for the exact opposite. Right?

Right. And it was going back and forth and no one could settle it. Right. And both cases are equally convincing i think both people probably identify with a lot of zuckerberg yes you know zuckerberg in this movie not the real mark zuckerberg who loves to grill meats and you know post dead-eyed videos like this like it sounds like a muppet is it like like the world's most terrifying i'm like

thank fucking god the social network that's the only thing i'm cool in yes remotely cool this movie kind of makes him seem like a badass yes exactly yes oh god remember when he was gonna run for president and then like two months later it was like he's he's not gonna do that people aren't excited about me um by being catching fire out there i think what's interesting in a way that that makes sense right is like for both sorkin and fincher there are aspects of zuckerberg that they relate to too deeply and aspects of Zuckerberg that they are repelled by. Correct.

Yes. And they're different. Sure. Okay. They're both, I think, kind of in conflict about this guy, but their feelings

don't overlap. But I think there's more going on beyond Zuckerberg re-Harvard and the culture that created Zuckerberg and his competitors at harvard and

i think that i think a lot of fincher's interests lie there that's sorkin's do too but sorkin is you know he writes about class in a you know pretty straightforward way right you know he gets the zuckerberg is aspiring to you know jump the ladder and you know get into these like well yeah no fincher loves and all that. Well, yeah, no, Fincher loves technology, right? Fincher loves pushing through walls. Right, but I think he's like, this is like a haunted house as well. Correct, but Sorkin is kind of a classicist and also he is, if not a Luddite.

He is a Luddite. He's fully a Luddite. Right. Yes. I mean, I think he's a self-professed Luddite yeah and I think he kind of is one right

I don't think he's putting it on I think he's terrified by technology and also has disdain for it it's not even like a this is not for me thing I think he views it as something of a cultural ill I think he understands

if I were Aaron Sorkin also I probably would really hate the internet because the internet really likes to talk about Aaron Sorkin like you know so I would get turned off this Reddit thread to talk about Aaron Sorkin. Like, you know, so I would get turned off. This Reddit thread was going around like Sorkin's obsession with quote unquote great men, right? Go ahead.

I might want to stop talking about the Reddit thread I haven't read, but okay. No, no. Because I don't think Sorkin's obsessed with great men. But okay, go on. Well, this is the question, right? Or he doesn't think they're great. But he does. There's nothing he loves more than a guy who is so smart that no one else understands how smart he is and gets to like sort of run these linguistic circles around everyone else.

And just fight to persist in his worldview, pushing through. Right. I think the best Sorkin projects are the ones like it I mean, it's what's so great about Moneyball is that the guy fails, right? We can talk about Moneyball. When are we going to talk about it? In this movie, the guy succeeds, but I think Sorkin's a little terrified by the effects of what he's done.

Whereas that's the exact thing that Fincher kind of likes about him. It's like this guy threw bricks through every fucking glass window. Hmm. You think so? I don't know, man. I don't know. This is getting complicated for me. I'm starting to thread it. I'm going back to the dossier.

I don't know if Fincher totally thinks that. I don't know. I have a lot to say about one thing on that thread. We'll keep talking. Fincher's given the script on a Friday. Reads it on a Saturday. Monday, he goes to Amy Pascal. We need to make this movie immediately. We have to be in Cambridge in the fall.

I want to... I feel like this is a strike when the iron is hot thing anyway because this story is unfolding. Changing something. The quicker we make it, the better. It's a big challenge for him, I think, on two levels. One, it's a lot of boardrooms

and depositions and conversation. Talkiest movie he's ever done. Even like, I think, on two levels. One, it's a lot of boardrooms, you know, and lawyer, you know, depositions and conversation. Talkiest movie he's ever done. Right. Even like Zodiac, which is very talky, is not. That's a tense film. Yes. You know, a serial killer in it. Yeah.

And it's not. This is really dialogue based. It's dialogue based. And literally everyone in this movie is going to be OK. And by OK, I i mean we'll be a billionaire like the people who get fucked over in this movie get fucked out of more billions but they all end up at tens of billions yes like saverin for basically let's be honest if you want to be real about eduardo saverin doing fucking nothing and almost blowing facebook

now maybe he should have blown facebook because I could do without Facebook in our society. Yeah. But like he didn't do anything and he's worth $14 billion just because of, you know, he was Mark Zuckerberg's pal who gave him a thousand bucks. Like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. If you read about

Eduardo Saverin, he's he is not a sympathetic figure in my opinion. In this movie, he's very sympathetic. Sure. Yes sympathetic figure in my opinion in this movie sure yes well that a lot of that's just yes garfield in the pain the best yeah uh sorkin says speaking to what you're saying i have an enormous amount of empathy for zuckerberg i felt it was easy to do the revenge of the nerds version of this yeah but there's more something more compelling about his wanting to do it his way. Because he was right regarding advertising early on and shit like that. Zuckerberg is right about most things in the course of the movie, The Social Network. Like his mind for how to do this, even if he's ruthless and rude, is sort of correct.

Right. even if he's ruthless and rude like it is is sort of like correct right um the ultimate communication tool needed to be devised by someone who doesn't have the best communication skills is how fincher puts it it's a great ironic notion uh i'm not here to crucify mark zuckerberg he accomplished an enormous amount um but i know what it's like to be 21 years old and trying to direct a 60 million dollar movie and sitting in a room full of grown-ups who think you're so cute but they're not about to give you control of everything so that's where he gets the Fincher. Right that's the part the Fincher relates to

Right I get that but I also think Fincher is like a little bit like terrified of him like you said I'm saying they're both terrified of different aspects of him and both impressed by different aspects of him right? Right. There was all the David Pryor sort of documentaries

on the special features of this movie that are really good. John David Pryor, Empty Mansion. Should we just do Empty Man? Maybe. I'm like,

should we do that instead of Mindhunter? You don't want to do Mindhunter. I just don't want to cover TV. I hate covering TV. I don't either. You know what? We're going to have to

take it to the fans. And by take it to them, I mean like, take it to them. With a fucking baseball bat. Exactly. Hammers. Yes. Should we just, we'll do a poll? Yeah, but I think, well, you never know with the empty man hive because they're

everywhere. I know. There's empty men. Have you seen the empty man? No. There's not a lot going on inside. Fs. Yeah. And by F, I mean it a pluses sure here's yeah make it clear this ain't no f cinema score right because no one was in theaters they didn't get to see it um yeah uh my david prior the wonderful david prior directed feature-length documentary about the making of this movie that's on the dvd very good it's about doing mind hunters they didn't direct the whole show and it's not like a miniseries where we can knock

the whole thing out. I agree. Honestly, I kind of agree with you. Not to devalue it within his filmography and whatever. It just fucks so hard. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. It does fuck hard. Maybe Ben and I just do a side project where we're like, it fucks so hard. Do a fucking Mindhunter watch-along

podcast. Oh, God. I'm sure there's like 50 of those already. Yeah, there's definitely a lot. Yeah, right. And talk about striking while the iron's hot. Now's the time. Well, the thing with Mindhunter

is though it's true crime, which no one really chats about in the podcast. You know, I don't think anyone's been brave enough yet to talk about serial killers. Right.

Well, no, here's the thing no one's done. Crimes that aren't true. Being a little funny while talking about true crime on a podcast. That's untouched. What I was going to say.

Yes. Uh, there's an Eisenberg, uh, uh, quote, I'll paraphrase here, but he was saying like the,

the reason Zuckerberg was so effective at making this, this social network, right? This thing that basically rewrote the ways in which we interact with each other is because he thought about social interactions in such a binary way. He thinks about them like code.

Like the whole creation of Facebook of being able to like, I'm going to click on the name of my favorite band and see everyone else who has listed this as one of their favorite bands, which changes the way we think about how we connect to people, is how he was thinking about other people.

Well, Eduardo and I live in the same house. You know, we're part of the same, like, dormitory. We like the same band. We are friends. Right, it's like that. You know, he was already almost seeing the code of that as someone with no natural, like, ability to organically

connect to other people. It's like, well, you look for the matching data sets. Yeah, I mean, 100%. I thought that was a very astute observation from Eisenberg. He's a smart guy. He's a very smart guy.

And, I mean, how old was he when he made this movie? 26, I believe. I mean, this is, I just, we'll talk about it a smart guy. He's a very smart guy. And I mean, how old was he when he made this movie? Okay. I believe. I mean, this is, I just, we'll talk about it a lot more. You're right. What a fucking towering performance. It's the best. And a performance that kind of feels like for the 2010s on, like, the seismic shift of, like, fucking Pacino and De Niro landing with their

anti-heroes in the early 70s. You know? I completely agree. I mean, this is the first guy, the first performance, the first movie to fully crystallize a new kind of terrifying type of modern man. Right. And they hit it so hard and you just have so many people

trying to replicate this performance in one space or another. And some people have gotten close, but this still just remains like, holy shit, did they nail it? I don't think he's had a bad career at all. No. And obviously he's actually

done a good job finding himself sort of blockbusters to be in and stuff like that. And making small projects, boosting a lot of smaller filmmakers, first-time filmmakers, foreign filmmakers. But I almost,

I still like kind of wish he had more. Totally. But I'm also just, like, I was thinking the same way. And then I looked at his filmography. And as you said, I don't think he's made bad choices. But then I step back and I go, like, how does he top this? Tough to do. Like, what do you, okay, what do you think his best post social network

performances I really like the double that would that's my answer to that's my so good in that yeah and like second best or whatever you know competitors might be like a self-defense which I really like which is fantastic and a film I also love

he's very good and louder than bombs although that's kind of like a slight like that movie isn't quite as good as you want it to be. And then, but then I'm like, yeah, well, he's good in Zombieland. He does what he's supposed to do and like, now you see me.

But Zombieland's before this. Oh, that's right. It is. It's a year before this. But what about Zombieland Double Tap? Well, he tapped it a second time after this. Did Emily Stone die in that one or something? Like, how much time did she give them? That was my thing. I was just like, she must be in it a second time after this. Did Emma Stone die in that one or something? Like, how much time did she give them?

That was my thing. I was just like, she must be in it for the first five minutes. I think she's in the whole fucking thing. Yeah, apparently she is. Yeah. Well, good for her. Spoiler alert for ZombielandableTap. She lives?

Yeah. Feels like a spoiler. It does. I was ready for that to be some Expendables 4 shit. Sorry, you mean Ex... Ex-Four-to-F to be some expendables for shit. Sorry, you mean exportables? Expendables? Yes. Exportables.

I just think it's interesting that even Zack Snyder, right? I mean, just half a second side tangent here, right? But like, Zack Snyder offers Jimmy Olsen to Jesse Eisenberg in the wake of this movie for BVS. And the bit was going to be, well, obviously, Jesse Eisenberg is Jimmy Olsen.

That's great casting. And then I kill him. I shoot him square in the head. He's turned into mush. Yeah, fucking twist. Yeah. And Jesse Eisenberg goes, I'd rather play Lex Luthor.

And Snyder, to his credit, kind of readjusted, goes like, yeah, the modern day Lex Luthor would be Mark Zuckerberg. No, it's, I mean, yeah. I mean, that performance is very big. Well, this is what I was going to say. And then Zuckerberg even realizes,

like, what am I going to do? Just do Zuckerberg again? You mean... I'm sorry,berg even realizes, like, what am I going to do? Just do Zuckerberg again? You mean... I'm sorry. Eisenberg realizes. Right, yeah. I can't just straight up give the Zuckerberg performance again,

even though that's probably what everyone wanted to see to a certain degree. I think if he had given the Zuckerberg performance again in that movie, I'd probably like it more if he was toned down.

I give him credit. He tried something different. Yes. It's just... Also, he doesn't have the best script in the universe that he's reading from there. It also feels like he chose to play Max Landis more than

he chose to play. American Ultra gets made before. This has always been my pet theory about that performance. Solid theory. Thank you. I met him once. I did a panel with him at Sundance. He was incredibly nice. Eisenberg? Yes. Just like unbelievably nice. And it was in that movie. He's in, I think I've talked about, Wild Indian that He was incredibly nice. Eisenberg? Yes, just like unbelievably nice. And it was in that movie.

He's in, I think I've talked about, Wild Indian that he produced. Right, right. And it's in one scene of. Yes. And I was like, why are you in one scene? He was like, I just figured I could help out. You know, like, yeah, you know,

just being in the movies for helpful. Total mensch. Yeah. Yeah. Seemed really nice. Yes. And like, once again, is a guy who has helped to get

a lot of tricky movies off the ground. And he, please, Abraham, I'm not that man. Do you know what I'm referring to? No. It was in, I believe, a New Yorker profile or maybe Time Out. Yes. Where they were like, hey, do other people recognize? Obviously, he's really pre-social network, just to be clear, like Roger Dodger.

He's really Zombieland. He's good in other stuff. He says i get called napoleon dynamite because i have curly hair i live in new york city and i ride a bicycle i bike down ninth avenue there's this kid who goes to school named abraham and every time i pass him he calls me napoleon dynamite he screams it out and his friends laugh it's a fine movie and i wasn't in it and the guy says well what do you say back and he says i say please abraham i'm not that man yes imagine him saying that does he bikes and then it gets replaced with the michael cera thing which i've always found a little confounding but like they have such different they do they have different energies but they they were hollywood's nerds premiere nerds of the 2000s you know but

it's like sarah's whole thing is is like, this is the softest nerd. He's also nothing like John Heder. I mean, these are all sort of odd personality matches. Yeah. Anyway, Fincher and Sorkin. Sort of an odd union in a way. Yeah. You know, like Fincher's technical precision,

very difficult. Very different from Sorkin's whole play fast and loose. West Wing can go $50 million over budget. Who cares? Like, you know, right? Sorkin had written, for example, that Mark would be drinking a screwdriver during the initial face mash scene.

I guess Sorkin just kind of thought, like, that makes sense in my head for something he would drink. Well, correct me if I'm wrong here, because there's been a lot of talk over the last 13 years since this movie came out about how much the Erica Albright character is a bit of a creation. She is, sure. Right, that's a Sorkin sort of framing

device, dramatic device. Yes. But there is a blog. Right. There's a real blog post about him creating face mash that is maybe not filled with invective towards, like, you know, but like is like a lot of, obviously a lot of that stuff is. Drunken wake of rejection.

But like him talking about like all the technical language of like, first I do this, you know, like that's obvious. It's not like Sorkin wrote that. Like that's obviously right from the blog. And I, like there is, I are directed at a woman in it, right? Amorkin wrote that. Like, that's obviously right from the blog. And I, like, there is ire directed at a woman in it, right?

Am I wrong about that? I might have to check that. My, my, double check this, but my understanding had always been that Sorkin sort of extrapolated

from that, like, oh, I'm going to make this all about the one girl who rejected him that he never got over. Whereas it felt like it was perhaps a much smaller thing.

I mean, the thing Zuckerberg has always said in his defense is like, he meets his wife very shortly after this. They're together for a very long time. I've got to be clear with this. There is nothing about a woman in this blog. But the thing there is is the

next pictures of farm animals is in the blog. The putting, you know, and, but yeah, you can read the blog it's almost entirely verbatim in the movie okay

but not the stuff about Erica's bra size and shit like that how he hacks and pulls all that stuff but also the stuff

of like oh Billy had an idea of comparing like a ladies to farm animals like and then maybe then we you know

and then it's a lot of like the thing with like though the Turing feel and all that stuff. But Sorkin's thing was... He was like, he should be drinking a screwdriver. And Fincher was like, he says he's drinking a Bex in the blog,

so he's going to be drinking a Bex. We're going to be accurate here. It's such a great little microcosm of the difference between these two guys. Sorkin's justification was the way he's writing, it feels like he's more drunk. If he's just drinking a Bex,

I don't think he gets drunk enough to talk about the farm man. Sure, Sorkin's like, he needs to be drinking something heavier. Sure. Yeah. And Fincher's like,

but he was drinking a Bex. And I think Fincher... And he did post that. Right. Which means either... I also think Fincher is like... It says something more interesting about him.

That makes sense to me. A 19-year-old college student drinking a Bex. Like, Fincher's just immediately like, that's how I see it. Because it's real. But also, that says something about him, that he wasn't dead drunk. Yeah, and also, what kind of

freak kid is like, let me pull myself a screwdriver. Come on, who does that? Fincher's, you know, obsessive, detail-oriented thing, right? You've got to get it exactly how it was. I remember reading some piece about Zodiac when it came out, and they talked about him being a stickler, about, like, what is the actual pen that Robert Graysmith would have used at his desk?

Sure, right, right, right. What do you gain by tracking down the pen? Yeah, you're not going to see it. Yeah, who cares? And it's sort of like the Beck's thing, where he's like, I'm not, you're not going to see it. Yeah, who cares? And it's sort of like the Becks thing where he's like, I'm not even saying you're going to see it. I'm not even saying it in a method way to help Gyllenhaal, but maybe there's some discovery you make by

holding the real pen that the guy made that somehow informs something. Right. If you just go like, oh, the shape of this means that you're writing like this instead of this. In the same way that it's like, there's something you gain from the character by it being a Bex, because that was what he was drinking. I think so. Yeah.

The other thing... Without trying to make some greater point out of it by dramatizing it into something else. Other thing I think is crucial to note is just that the script was 166 pages. Yes. Sony was like, the movie needs to be two hours long. This is way too long. And Fincher was like,

you and me are going to sit down and read the script. This is my favorite story. And he starts a stopwatch and he and Sorkin just read the script to each other like at the pace Fincher imagines the dialogue going.

Click. Hour 59. And he calls the studio and he's like, we don't need to change anything. We don't need to cut anything. This will be a two-hour movie. And it is.

Yes. It's a two-hour movie. Yeah. And it feels perfectly paced i would say yes i mean most things about this movie are pretty much perfect i think yeah you know technically yeah so i uh this script starts getting sent around the movie gets set up and announced when When I am on the set filming the off-discussed, especially recently, but where the guns are. I'm on a movie shoot

with a bunch of people between the ages of 16 and 25. And that film came out the same year as The Social Network and had a similar successful run. Equally successful. But we're filming the movie summer 2009. So this script hits and like every single person

on set is like, I'm just trying to get any fucking part in the social network. Anyone between the ages of like 20 and 26 read for this movie, basically.

You know, imagine you are an actor trying to get your foot in the door, right? Get noticed, make your name. This script lands in your fucking email inbox

because there's so many young parts for it. And they're like, maybe they'll cast a couple names, but they're casting a wide net. They're seeing a lot of people and there are a lot of roles. And basically all of them are good. Even the people who only have four lines of dialogue,

there are four lines written by Sorkin. Everyone who reads the script goes like, holy fucking shit. Because you're also reading dog shit all the time. Oh, four lines written by Sorkin. Everyone who reads this script goes like, holy fucking shit. Because you're also reading dog shit all the time. Oh, absolutely. It's an exciting script. Right.

And his scripts read really well. Yes. Like, when you read a Sorkin script, you're kind of like, how could this be bad? Totally. You read this and you're like,

and this is so actable. Like, I remember reading the Studio 60 script and you were like, this is gold. It's tough. I'm not joking. You've got to fucking

master this language. As Jeff Daniels said, you need to learn so well to fucking master this language. As Jeff Daniels said, you need to learn so well you can dance on it. As Jeff Daniels said. I pointedly remember that they sent the script out, but for the auditions, it was just other Sorkin scenes. Because I think, as Fincher puts it, basically,

we needed to see that people could do the pace more than anything. And when they saw Eisenberg's tape, he self-taped, it was the first time, Fincher says, it was the first time I said, we're going to be under two hours.

Like, this is what we need. I think I did a Paulson-Perry scene from Studio 60, but I also know there was a West Wing scene and you could pick which one you did. Did you play Paulson or Perry, though? I played Paulson. What do you mean, of course? I was defending Crazy Christian. No Christians no fuck that's the wrong position

he doesn't want it on the arts she's defending the actual Crazy Christians that sketch dares skewer excuse me she's defending sane reasonable Christians um but yes everyone reads the script and loses their fucking mind right hosted by Rob Reiner that week.

The script is really long. The script is really long. I remember in the lead up to this movie coming out, reading that anecdote about them reading the movie with a stopwatch. And then I think it's so funny, and I clocked it again re-watching last night, that the dialogue on this movie basically starts the second the studio logo starts.

Yes. As if they're like, we have no time to waste. Right, right, right. If we're going to stay on pace, we have to just like... We're talking over, and there's the music, the ball and biscuit, white stripes, you know. Yeah, it's great.

Eisenberg's approach to Zuckerberg, as he says, I think he's trying to run this organization and keeps having to deal with people who feel like they deserve something because they've always gotten their way. I felt my character was in the right. There's no other way to act it, which is totally,

you know, a good call. Here's another thing to mention about the Eisenberg casting. This movie gets announced. People are like, oh, you know, Jesse Eisenberg would be good as Zuckerberg.

Sure. He starts getting like fan cast shortlisted a lot. He looks like him a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. Fincher has said in interviews like, I hate when people tell me

who to cast. Right. Especially the public. Everyone online starts telling me this is who you should hire. So I almost go into it resentful when I'm finally watching his tape. But like,

I'm going to fucking cast someone else just because I don't want to pick the person you're telling me to pick. And then as you said, he sees the tape and it's just like, god'm gonna fucking cast someone else just because I don't want to pick the person you're telling me to pick. And then as you said, he sees the tape and it's just like, goddammit, you assholes. Undeniable, he's the pick. Right. He's the one guy who can deliver this

at the speed we want, the intensity we want, the energy, all that stuff. Now, Garfield, who's already up and coming, but obviously 2010 is his big year, but Mark Romanek, that's his launch at British TV film, basically. He's very good. And the Red Riding Trilogy. But Mark

Romanek had already worked with him for Never Let Me Go, which comes out the same year, puts him in front of Fincher. Fincher is into it. Garfield never meets Saverin. That's not surprising, obviously. Sony had already done Zombieland, which comes out after this film, but before Social Network

as a movie. So there is someone who's probably, you know, okay by them. He's on their good list. Sony wanted Jonah Hill to play Sean Parker,

pushed for him really hard, even though Fincher was like, I'm interested in this, this performer you may have heard of named Justin Timberlake, who I think will pop. It's just weird to think

that Sony was like, Timberlake, get him out of here. You know, like, I don't know. Maybe they just, well, I mean, Jonah Hill was certainly a big name at the moment. Huge, yeah. And I guess maybe Sony is like, oh, he'll overwhelm the picture. Or, oh, he, you know, he doesn't know how to act. I don't know. Timberlake?

Tim, Justin Timberlake, yes. Yeah, I think also they're just like, if we have Jonah Hill in this, we have security that the movie will be funny, right? I think also they're just like, if we have Jonah Hill in this, we have security that the movie will be funny. Right. I think they, they want, I,

I could understand there being a little worry on Sony's part of like, is Fincher going to make this thing so fucking heavy? Is he going to make it so dark? Had he brought sexy back yet? He had brought sexy back. Maybe that was part of maybe what they were weighing in. They were nervous. But like,

and what goes around had come around. Right. Yeah, but like Dick in a Box had happened. Like, it's not like Justin Timberlake had not been part of funny things. And obviously that's the funniest thing that ever happened. The Sorkin script reads funny. The Sorkin script reads funny. Fincher had not made anything close to being this much of a comedy outright.

You know, as much as obviously Fight Club is deeply satirical, you know? I could see them being like, put one person in who is kind of a conventional, comedic actor. But Timberlake's like, sorry, Fincher's like, no, and I want, I mean, Hill is actually a closer read for the real Sean Parker. Yes. Timberlake's like, this needs to be a fantasy

like when he enters, you know? And I kind of want this guy to feel like a star within his world. What is smart about the casting is that you're casting Eisenberg and Garfield, who are movie star versions of dorks. So they need to be impressed by a guy who in the real world was sort of a movie star version of a dork. But in a world where movie stars are playing dorks needs to be played by a pop star. You need to like adjust everything on a curve

around it being a movie. I think there was just the feeling of like, yes, does Timberlake overwhelm it? He had been in a couple movies at this point and the audiences had not accepted it. He had been in the love guru and shit, right? There'd been a little bit of a push to put him in movies.

At this point, he had already sort of receded. They're like, he hosts SNL and he's a pop star. star that's his thing and then it's funny how quickly after this movie everyone's like he's a movie star we're forcing this into happening his friends with benefits is the next year and people basically reject this yeah they do he's i think he's absolutely incredible in this movie and i don't really think he's been particularly good he's in anything else except for inside lewin davis which he's like you know good he's only particularly good in anything else except for Inside Llewyn Davis, which he's like, you know, good in. He's only good when great directors use him. Well, you know, ain't that

how it goes. Totally. But yes, no, Sony does About Time and... Yeah, because, well, I love him in Southland Tales. Right. No, it's In Time, right? In Time, yes. That's the... Southland Tales, part of the earlier the movie career, isn't sticking, right?

It is, but it's also like, it's obviously just like his big moment in that is he sings a song. Like, so, anyway. In Time and Friends With Benefits are both Sony. It's like Pascal watches this movie early and it's like, you know what? I'm wrong. Justin Timberlake, we're all in.

He's not actually that bad in Friends With Benefits. People stick up for that movie. I think it's pretty bad. Pascal basically sees the dailies from this movie and is like, Rooney Mars, Lisbeth Salander, Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man. We're making three Timberlake pictures.

Like, people gave her credit. Most of those bets were solid. Of just being like, you know what? Fincher nailed. Obviously, Fincher is part of the Lewis Bith decision as well. Kept making more movies

with Eisenberg. Was just like, he picked a couple really big fucking stars early. And then Dakota Johnson gets plucked to her own thing.

100%. Her own franchise. Her own franchise. And don't forget great performance from Caleb Landry Jones. Did you catch him? He's in the frat house.

No, I didn't catch him. He's at the Coke party. He's at the Coke party. They get busted. Oh, really? And you know who I truly love in this movie, and we probably won't talk about him again, is Joe Mazzello as Dustin Moskovitz.

He's so good. He's so funny. Yes. Which is all he's required to be. And also, Dustin Moskovitz, to me, is the perfect example of like, that guy, I'm not saying he's not to be. And also Dustin Moskowitz to me is the perfect example of like, that guy, I'm not saying he's not a successful, skilled person.

I'm sure he is. But it's like, why is he one of the richest men on earth? He was just Zuckerberg's roommate. He was just right there. And his vibe for the whole movie is just like, happy to be here, guys. Like, whatever.

Understated aspect of what makes Mazzello so good in this is he's arguably and it's because this is what that role requires right for that exact reason that he's just some dude he's maybe the only person in the movie who does the Sorkin dialogue but makes it sound like it isn't dialogue he's really good at

right because everyone else is playing the patter the rhythms you know and he's just kind of throwing everything off because you're like this guy doesn't have the energy the patter, the rhythms, you know? And he's just kind of throwing everything off. Because you're like, this guy doesn't have the energy of, I'm doing something important here. I'm someone who people are going to be studying forever.

Some other people in this film. Armie Hammer is in this film. He plays the Winklevoss twins. Yeah, he played two characters in this film. Obviously. Oh, he did both. Josh Pence plays the body of one Winklevoss twins. Yeah, he played two characters in this one. Obviously. Oh, he did both. Josh Pence plays the body of one Winklevoss. Paul Callahan. Yes, who you split a credit with.

It's you and him in Draft Day. I forgot that it's me. I think about that a lot. Yeah. Maybe there's a third person in there too. I can't remember. I think it's just the two of you, though. I think that's right.

Honestly, maybe one of the most impressive things Fincher has ever done technically. To this day, you're like, well, there's actually two Army Hammers. Like, it never, ever feels weird to me. No? I don't want to pull rank here. Okay. I watched my 4K Blu-ray of this, which is currently only available in the Columbia Classics. I can't remember if it's the Volume 2 or the Volume 3 set. Whatever.

The sets that you've been opting out of because you don't like how big the box is. Don't like how big they are. But they keep on not putting them out as individual releases. How much bigger of a box are we talking? It's wide. Do you think it looks bad in 4K? Because I haven't seen it in 4K. No, I think there are a couple shots,

especially the ones where he has to move a lot sure where i did feel a little bit of of the sort of um deep fake tracking never spatially sure in like dialogue scenes it works fine he's incredible in this movie and it's one of those performances for me with a lot of these canceled celebrities where i'm like i'm so used to this performance because i watched it so many times pre-cancellation yes that for some reason it's siloed away for me and but if i then i watched death on the nile yeah right around the same time i watched this and you're like whoa whoa get him out of here oh spoiler alert he's also awful in that movie he does end up being a bit of an army hammer his character in that movie right yeah yes he's bad i mean everyone at death on the n up being a bit of an army hammer, his character in that movie, right?

Yeah, yes, he's bad. I mean, everyone in Death on the Nile. The whole point of those Poirot mysteries is at the end, Poirot's like, you are all terrible! Yes. I am the only good one! Goodbye! Let me stroke my two mustaches.

It's just funny that he's... His great crime in this movie is being kind of an annoying piece of shit, the character. Both of them, sure. Yes, right? Rather than being, well, I have a lot to say about their characters.

A criminal. Like in Death on an Isle. Oh, sure, right. They don't commit any crimes in this movie. Right, right. And yet this is the performance where you're just kind of like, well, it's actually,

all the weird Armie Hammer stuff almost kind of boosts this. Yeah, I mean, yeah. He's pleased playing people. No, he's incredibly goods this. Yeah, I mean... Yeah. He's pleased playing people. No, he's incredibly good in this. Yeah. Rooney Mara, incredible find, obviously.

I think just without her performance, this movie is lesser. You know, like, if someone was just kind of like average in the Erica Albright role, that would feel like really corny. I put this disc on i watched it her face is so amazing yeah it's all like her eyes like you know like and how quickly

you can tell like his words are hurting her and like you know like go ahead no i i i put the disc in i watched this opening scene it starts the credit sequence i'm like you know what i'm gonna fucking restart the movie. I just wanted to watch the scene twice in a row. It's a great scene. I mean, it's great. It's very, very, you know.

I mean, look, I remember seeing this. Oh, and also, of course, we have to shout out Max Minghella. My favorite Max Minghella moment

by far. The fall. One of the greatest press falls. It's an incredible press fall. It's the same thing. It's so funny. It's so good thing and Forky you've seen this movie like once before I've seen this movie

like 50 times yes I was just like honestly one of the best pratfalls coming up and she was just like what what do you mean this is there's nothing about that scene that suggests pratfall incoming it's so good no and you also think about it being Fincher that he probably had to do that fall 150 times I would love

to know Max please. Please tell me. Makes it all the more impressive? I remember. So I saw this film, Griffin. This film opened the New York Film Festival, you know, and then went on to an Oscar run.

But I saw it at BAM. Have you heard of it? I have. Brooklyn Academy of Music. Yes. With my girlfriend at the time. Pam Rosen. I'm a humblebrag.

Correct. And my roommate, our roommate, Andy Scott. Shout out, Andy. Andy doesn't get shouted out enough on this podcast. Learned foot gets his moments in the sun. But Andy Scott, we love him. Also met him on OscarWatch.com.

Okay. Yep. And I just remember, obviously, that first scene, you're kind of like, whoa! You know, the dialogue. You're like, fuck, right, Aaron Sorkin. Because Aaron Sorkin had written a movie in years when this comes out right yes this is kind of the start of like studio 60 bombed he's all right he's moving off tv for a minute right like first movie since american president it's his first no there's charlie wilson's war right okay which everyone just kind of agreed to not think about too hard.

That's the only other one in between American President and this. Yeah, that's wild. That's wild. And obviously, he had stuff like Farnsworth invention where you were like, when's that coming out?

Yeah, I mean... First scene's incredible. No, I'm just saying, we were all like, whoa, shit. But then it's the Mark jogging through the Harvard campus. The score comes on

where you're like, no one told me this was the vibe. Like, I was not, I know the trailers were very cool and moody, but no one told me this was the vibe. Like, I felt like

a monster was about to jump out from behind a corner. I remember talking to a friend about how good the trailer for this movie was,

which is one of the all-time great trailers. Do you mean the initial creep trailer? The initial creep Scala and Kosthansky brothers. And saying like, it looks like Breakfast

Club meets Zodiac. Right. But then the whole time you were also kind of like, but how is that going to work? Totally. And who cares about a Facebook movie, right? Well, I had read the script, so I knew how fucking good the script was. And I was like, a year of people being like, I don't want to see a fucking Facebook movie and I'm like you don't understand how

good this thing is right but even still it was like I don't totally see and I'm so in the tank for Fincher at this point sure but it's like it isn't an obvious fit nothing about this no sounded good on paper no and so I say to my friend like it's like Zodiac meets Breakfast Club

and my friend was like where are you getting the Zodiac from in that trailer? Right. And I went, well, David Fincher directed it. David Fincher directed the Facebook movie? He did.

Did you know that? He actually directed this stuff, if I remember. He did. Yeah. But that trailer has this sort of creepy vibes of opening

with that song and the super zoomed in, pixelated, clicking through profiles thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In this way that feels voyeuristic, right? But I guess me and other people who hadn't read the script were like,

is the movie going to be about like using Facebook? Because if so, that sounds bad. Yes. No, what's fascinating about that trailer is that it's like 30 seconds of this zoomed in Facebook usage, right? Over this very haunting piece of music it feels like what would be a teaser trailer

that ends with one line of dialogue or one shot and instead it's that for 30 seconds and then they give you the full trailer basically which is such an interesting tone setting thing in the same way that this opening credit sequence is of just being like there's something kind of unsettling

happening here. You know, in Opposition is something like 21 where it's like a fun story about a fucking a bunch of rebels. These kids thought they could do this bullshit. Right. It's this thing that Fincher's tapped into of like there's something

really kind of unsettling at the psychological core of this thing when you really kind of unsettling at the psychological core of this thing when you really dig into it right yeah and watching all this like the behind the scenes stuff they had three weeks of rehearsal with the script in the full cast right and there's so much

fucking drinking game whenever I say right there's like three weeks of rehearsal table work with Sorkin, with Fincher, and with the main cast. And Eisenberg says, I maybe spoke for a grand total of 15 minutes

across those three weeks. Okay. He's the guy who has most of the dialogue in the script. And he went, I realized this wasn't as much about Fincher trying to do blocking, get the line readings down, time all that up,

because he's going to do 100 takes on set. Right. It's not like he's waiting for them to be first take perfect, you know, trying to prep it in

advance. That was all him trying to nail the story down. He didn't say that to us. And then you're watching these cutaways

of Fincher just going through line by line with a fine-tooth comb and going, Aaron, come on, that's too cutesy. Right, sure. You don't need to repeat that four times. Right. When you say it like this, it feels like too much of a that.

I wish they had collaborated again, because I do think he's a great moderating force. No one else is going to give Sorkin notes like this. Sure. I don't think Sorkin takes notes from anyone else like this. Well, he probably doesn't anymore. There may have been a point where he might have, but yeah. Fincher's being gentle with him, but also is so resolute in what he's saying.

It's not like he's trying to fucking sledgehammer him. No, but you can also see in that documentary how interested Sorkin is by the whole process of making movies and how excited he is to be on a set. And I think it's fresher for him then than it would be, you know, whatever, by the time a certain trial was taking

place of some guys from Chicago, for example. In all this footage of the back and forth of them pushing on these things, there's a really interesting telling piece of Sorkin saying,

but do you think if we lose that, this character is still like relatable? Is the audience still rooting for him if we lose this? And Fincher's like, what do you mean? And he says something like, I mean, I just think I'm rooting for this guy more if I understand it's because his heart was broken rather than because he's trying to become rich

or successful or whatever it is. And Sorkin, I think, thinks, well, that's the emotional in I need is I need to create this Erica Albright character, right?

I need there to be this person who broke him and this whole thing. And especially like we're ending on him sending her the friend request. Refresh, refresh, refresh. He thinks of that almost as an emotional sweetness of that's how you redeem this character for the audience. If you ground it in a real emotional rejection,

I think Sorkin is framing it in that way. Here's this guy who would come off as off-putting if you didn't add this thing. Whereas I think Fincher sees that as like this is the creation of a monster right it's like this moment of rejection curdles him

into something it's almost though the difference of like between someone who's never used Facebook and someone who has because to me the ending you're like this is so creepy and eerie and like a thing totally that people engage in right with obsession it's obviously not that like this fictional woman is responsible for turning him into an asshole right as she calls out he already is one you know but

it is that his response to this is so bad that it sets him on this path that to some degree destroys human society as we know it and i think that cutting to from that sequence which is so much fun to watch right is this like amazing fucking screwball patter between two young actors who were just like ready to fucking bite into material this good yeah and just the sorkin thing of like you have to be aware that one of them might be replying to a question that was asked a minute ago and they've already moved on to another topic where she says like sometimes i don't know which thing you want me to respond to dating you is like dating a stairmaster yeah yes but in a lot of sorkin projects, the lead male and female characters have this kind of banter. But the unspoken part is much like, you know, a Barbara Stanwyck character, a Rosalind Russell character. Even when they're fighting, they both kind of find it charming, right? Even when like Harriet is furious at Matt Albee.

It's sexual chemistry. It's yeah, of course. Yeah. is furious at Matt Albee. It's sexual chemistry. Yeah, of course. Yeah. The precision, the sort of, the tuning of Bernie Maher's performance

into like, she's genuinely just so annoyed at this point. She can keep up with him. Right. She can fucking do the Sorkin dialogue with him.

But like, this is not fun. He's impossible. Even before the moment she decides, I need to end this. It's just like, what the fuck are we doing here?

And then when you cut to the credit sequence, and as you said, the music kicks in and you're just like, whoa, this is a different vibe than I'm expecting. That's Fincher setting the tone of just like, there's something really ominous happening here. There's something really dark happening inside the soul of this guy.

And it is now just going to spread right um and it's going to be forged in this place that is you know like harvard yeah that is kind of like terrible like you know like that like we'll just state this kind of like brooding, insecure, evil, you know, like this like toxic, like dynamic of like, I have to be the best and I have to, you know, be a cutthroat. And then he goes home and he writes a nasty blog post and he creates a nasty little website, you know, to make people feel bad about themselves. Like it's like the sort of most blunt force version of Facebook. Right? It's like the drunken mean version of Facebook. I'm not going to put them on blast by name, but I remember a couple years after

this movie coming out, reading an interview with an actor who was promoting a different movie, who was still angry about the fact that he had not gotten cast as Mark Zuckerberg in this film. Wait, who is it? I will tell you off line. Come on! I will tell you off line. Fine. I also bleep it.

I mean, you're not even going to know who it is without looking him up. Kiefer Sutherland. That's why I was like, it's really weird for you to grind this axe here. It was Kiefer Sutherland. God damn it! But his big gripe was like, you watch footage of the real Zuckerberg.

I spent like hours, days studying him, getting the voice right. Eisenberg's not even doing Zuckerberg, right? And even the adding of like Erica, you know, all the things in this movie that are fictionalized, this sort of version of Zuckerberg they create. I think of this movie like the way that fucking Shakespeare wrote tragedies

about like, you know, world leaders. Sure. Who like self-destructed. Okay. Right. These people who had all this power to move nations and shift the tectonic

plates of society. And just like collapsed in on themselves. And that's the thing that I think, uh, this opening credit sequence gets across and that's the thing that I think this opening credits sequence gets across and that's then carried through the rest

of the movie is like, this is a guy who's now emboldened with the need to like reshape the world in his image. And they are using him

as a dramatic construct, basically, taking a lot from real events and real transcripts of what he said. But it's like, it's the idea of,

and this is what I think this movie gets at so well, of like, this is the moment when the rules of humanity are rewritten. It's a thing that I think

Black Hat is kind of about, a movie we've discussed in the past, which is Michael Mann going like, I spent my whole, they keep delaying it, but it's because the director

is being clear. I know, and I approve, and I can't wait. I approve. It's being second disc, it's delaying it, but it's because the director's cut's being clear. I know, and I approve, and I can't wait. Approve. It's being second disc. It's not 4K, but it's because Element's not being available.

I don't care. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I've approved the shipping delay many times. Target asks for you to approve the release date change

or else it cancels your order. Black Hat, I think, is a movie about Michael Mann realizing that the guys he spent his entire career writing about cops and criminals no longer are the people

who are the badasses who get to intimidate the world. Right? If everything is on a computer system, then the guy behind the computer has to be Chris Hemsworth. And also someone's going to stab you, tie a phone book to your chest.

Cool. Yeah. This is a moment where, like, not only, well, obviously, the guys who write the code, they create the inventions, they become billionaires, they become the richest men in the world. Zuckerberg starts to actually rewrite the fabric of how we interact with each other. I know he's not the person to create social media. No, he's not. And also, he's not entirely doing it because out media he's not and also he's not entirely doing it because out of mount well he's not doing it out of malice at all really but like you say he looks at the world in a certain way at least within the world of this movie right and he makes a thing

that makes us look at the world through that viewpoint maybe even though we don't feel that way or but that's the frame that i think that's so smart that Fincher is and Sorkin are putting around it which is like you have to play some intentionality into it for dramatic sake right but like but here's the actual like takeaway much like if you're trying to write about Julius Caesar

it's like but what what can we actually infer from what happened and who the guy was well let's get into Shakespeare you're gonna you're gonna get me on so many rants. I'm like Erica right now. I don't know which thing I'm supposed to respond to. There's a reason we have no guests on this episode. Look, on Facebook, though,

I did create a group that was praising a particular sandwich you could get at my university's sandwich counter, the chicken and bacon sandwich. Sounds cool. Yeah, we all had a great time on it. So I think Facebook worked out for the best. I made a Facebook group called

I'm Really Fucking Pale. Sure. That sounds good. Mostly to have a reason to talk to the other, the pale girls in my high school that I had a crush on. That got really big in Australia. That's,

look, we can't do Remember When Facebook Was Interesting. and then like 10 000 people from australia but it is whenever i watch this movie i cannot help but remember those sort of two to three years it's really that it's not much longer than that when it was still just college students well the first initial phase where it was just your college where it actually was cool yeah like yeah and then the next wave where it was still like well we all use facebook but before like the news feed had come in and it was sort of like it was still fine it was still invite i went on a vacation should i post the pictures on my wall

and now like the idea of posting anything on facebook sends a deadly chill up my spine like imagine if i posted on facebook i'm pretty sure what Facebook is mostly just laser content. That there's satellites in the sky that shoot lasers down. Into your head? I got into a whole conversation recently with a local business owner where they were telling me that the Hawaiian fires were caused by invisible lasers. But that invisible lasers are the strongest form of lasers. And that there's all different kinds. There's purple lasers.

There's blue lasers. It was all color-based. But invisible is the hottest, most dangerous type of laser. What sort of business was this, Ben? It actually, weirdly enough, was like a craft store. Well, there you go.

Yeah. Facebook for me is basically just like my aunt and then like three people whose pages I shouldn't look at, but they're so strange that I click on them. So Facebook is clearly like, oh, is that your friend? We'll show you everything they say. And I'm like, oh God, get them away from me. Also someone with a lot of twine on their hands.

Sorry, it took me a second to get there. Good. See, you're city kids though, whereas I, as someone who grew up in the suburbs, I feel like Facebook is also a place for aun ants, but also for people from high school. Uh-huh. Yeah, I don't have too much of that. Whereas you have, like, cool friends.

Although I did, well, no. Let's not go crazy. No, that's like, well, I deactivated my Facebook profile several years ago. Oh, yeah, same. And I've started a fake account that I use only to sync up my Disney Emoji Blitz a game across multiple devices. The last thing that's like synced to your Facebook is Disney Emoji Blitz? It's a new account

I created just to do that. Fair enough. And then there are like three private groups I join where I want to gawk at what people are saying in adjacent social groups. But look at how we fucking bring it up and immediately we're like, well, I was able to make a group

about the fucking sandwich that I liked. Here's a lightning rod that connects me to other people in my community. I remember getting into fucking college because I think Facebook really starts to grow in between my sophomore and junior year. I go to college in 2007. I joined Facebook, I think, in 2005.

It was either five or six. And that's when it was like, oh, this is a college-only thing. Wait, I heard a couple high school people have gotten on. I got it in 2006. If your high school gives you your own email domain

and you have a referral from someone else, you can get onto Facebook. So it was either 05 or 06 I get on. By 2007, I'm looking up everyone else who is going to the college that I've chosen in every program, comparing their interests against my own, like pre-picking who my friends are going to be.

I mostly just tried to, I't know chat with girls but this that's the whole fucking point yeah that's what the movie gets i just and but like i think we are obviously the last generation that will have any memory of the feeling that this movie is very much about a facebook being something exclusive, something you want, that maybe your friends, you have friends who have it and you don't have it yet. I had already done Friendster and MySpace at this point.

I never did either. See, I did both. I was hard on both. I only did MySpace. I didn't do Friendster. I was so into Friendster. But like, yeah, the novelty was not there with Facebook but the exclusivity immediately made me want it more

the fact that it was like my older friends have this and I can't get on it also had a good aesthetic it had a clean presentation at the time looked cool and you look at those pages as you see them in the movie you're like right yeah Facebook didn't used to be like cluttered by bullshit you talk about the things that Zuckerberg was right about both Friendster

and MySpace basically became unusable within a year or two right Friendster would always crash and then MySpace just got like so bogged down with ads with artist pages with spam you know

the internet wasn't fast enough back then these pages take forever to load. These are all mistakes that Zuckerberg and others saw, where it's just like, no, it needs to be clean and simple so it loads fast. It's an understated aspect that just, for those first couple years, Facebook crashed so much less than these other sites that they basically drove themselves into the ground

because they couldn't keep up with the demand. But, uh... What was I going to say? Oh, yeah, Facebook, as this movie portrays, themselves into the ground because they couldn't keep up with the demand but uh what was i gonna say oh yeah facebook um as this movie portrays went to oxford and cambridge first and lsc and i had friends at oxford and cambridge i didn't go to october and cambridge i got waitlisted at cambridge yes um and so i had to wait yep i had to wait which college. I had to wait. Which college? The smart one. Good.

I had to wait an additional like seven months or whatever. Yes. And then my friends would be like, oh, yeah, I did this on Facebook. And I'll be like, that's cool. You know. Yeah. Anyway, amazing to think about any of this now, because, of course, Facebook is is bad. But all of this felt bad for society, but it's also just bad to use. All of this feels...

It felt novel at the time where it's like, oh, I've unfolded some new tools on my Swiss army knife of how to interact with other people, right? Rather than being like,

this has basically become the dominant model of how people interact with each other. Yeah. That's what's fascinating to think about is like their pitch on this in the movie which is so much how it was received by us people at the exact ages to be in the crosshairs of the facebook phenomenon right as it was like emerging um was like and here's like

all these bonuses, right? Here are these like extra limbs you can gain and your ability to interact with other people in the world. Yeah. Bad. But basically people, this character, right? This like absolutely antisocial sort of, what's the word I'm looking for?

I mean, there's a bunch I'm looking for? I mean, there's a bunch of behind the scenes stuff where Fincher just keeps on reminding him. This scene has the four things, Eisenberg, when he's like directing Eisenberg in scenes. He's like, I want to remind you the four things

you're terrified by in this scene. Physical proximity, eye contact, he's directly confronting you. Sure. It's like they created like a bullet point list. These are your triggers. Right. And basically saying like, in this scene, he's doing six of the 10. Right. Right. Sure. It's like they created like a bullet point list. These are your triggers. Right.

And basically saying like in this scene, he's doing six of the ten. Right. Right. Right. That's interesting. Here's a guy who like

doesn't know how to interact with other people. That's interesting. Yes. In actual life. And his defensive posture, as is often the case with people like this,

is to just play smarter. Right? To be a Sorkin character. To act like an asshole. Or at character, to act like an asshole, or at least try to seem like an asshole, because that's the only way for someone who feels that weak and uncomfortable existing in a real room with other people

to gain any sort of illusion of social capital. And instead, it's just like, well, what if I just change what the rules of socialization are? In the film film what happens Zuckerberg is insulted broken up with goes to his dorm creates face

mash gets in trouble gets academic probation and this catches the attention of the Winklevoss twins who ask him to make a social network site for them based on the exclusivity of the Harvard email address. And that clearly sparks something in

Zuckerberg's brain where he's like, why don't I take my Facebook hacking skills and that idea to make Facebook? I know we're seven minutes into the movie. I want to say two more things about the credit sequence. Say them quickly, please. The score, which is obviously incredible.

The thing of the basic sort of piano melody. Where you're just like, well, that sounds like loneliness. That's the thing. That married with what feels like the ambient

noise from a slasher film is such a good encapsulation of the whole tension of this movie, right? If you've never seen this film in a theater and you ever get the chance, it sounds incredible on a movie theater sound system. rather than it being any complicated, super long tracking shot, the kind of thing that someone might think Fincher would attempt to do in a long wordless sequence like this, is instead a bunch of largely stationary shots. Sometimes the camera shifts in to find him

or shifts out when he leaves or whatever. But almost all of these shots are big wide shots of campuses with a bunch of people around them, people socializing. He's alone, looking uncomfortable, rushing to get home as quickly as he can. All this space between the bar

where he's now been left and humiliated and the safety of his dorm room feels like it physically hurts him. Right. Right? And almost all of these shots, the shot starts before he enters into it and they cut out of it after he's left the frame. Right. Almost all of these shots, the shot starts before he enters into it.

And they cut out of it after he's left the frame. And it's like he's struggling to get through all of this as quickly as possible. The second we get into the dorm room, you're in tight on him. He's at the computer. He's surrounded by friends, but they're out of focus. Yes, they're out of focus. This guy needs the safety. He's back in his fucking cocoon. It also just feels like once he has his laptop the safety he's back in his fucking cocoon it also

just feels like once he has his laptop open he can communicate in a different way yeah all that stuff all of a sudden it's like his life is focused up again and he's comfortable and he's safe the music starts to become cool it's in his favor you're cross-cutting it with this party where it's like well these are the guys who define what's cool at the school he goes to cool maybe certainly these this is the upper crust you know the much desired a guy like him the porcelain all that all this fucking freak you go to i turn to my wife and i say our daughter is never allowed to go to harvard and she's like neither princeton and i'm like yale's off dartmouth no you know and then we were like would we let her go to any Ivy? We're basically like cutting

my daughter's opportunities off. She can't be near these people. A guy like Zuckerberg, the character, right? You imagine, bides his time through high school and goes, these people don't fucking get me. And then I'm going to go to college where my intelligence is respected.

Where I have capital, right? And you get there and it's like, no, these Ivy League fuckers, these legacy dudes, right? These golden gods still are above me in the chain. And it's tradition and it's this idea, the rumors. I hear they bust people into these parties, all the theatricality, the pomp and circumstance, the speech this fucking guy's giving on the staircase, right?

But in real time, as he does this blog post, as he writes this first website, the FaceSmash website, he's shifting the power over to himself in real time to the point where people are stepping out of the party and over to their computer screen. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's somewhat unbelievable in a way but i guess i looked at my computer a lot back then i don't know you know the idea of things spreading that

virally without a social network yes does seem kind of crazy and like in this movie it's like oh i got an email you know like or whatever yeah but yeah it was a thing i guess they're compressing the timeline a bit i'm sure but also like it, but it was a thing, I guess. They're compressing the timeline a bit, I'm sure, but also, like, it did happen. It was a thing. It was certainly a noticed thing. Noticed thing. Okay, but yes, the Winklevii, you know, are intrigued. The Winklevii and Divya Narendra.

That's how you say his name? Narendra, yes. And, yeah, right. But, like, you know's like the the fundamental thing that the finch and sorkin are interested by right is like the having the idea of trying to replicate the exclusivity that was so naked at harvard right in the social clubs and all and and just in the fact that like masters of the universe kids go she. Which he hates, which he's, you know... Yeah, but he also wants to be them. Spiraling about to Erica. Yes.

Right? They rogue crew. They embody everything that he's kind of resentful of, that he doesn't have, that he can't access. And here they are pitching him a site that is just trying to reassert their innate value based on their birthright, where they went to school. It's reasserting the value, but it's also just creating

a porcelain online. Creating their club online. Where it's like, yeah, only the best of the best get to be in here. And they're having this conversation with him in the bike room where he can't go any further. They're giving him the sandwich like it's some kind of you know, oh, lucky you.

You got a Phoenix Club sandwich. They're so close-minded though they are but they're also just mark is like i can see this bigger way mark understands right yes he immediately understands like the wider implications like better than they do yes um but what i love about the winklevosses who are sort of like they certainly in the movie, you're like, they do undeniably get screwed over. Right? But those guys have been fucking dunging out on it. That's why the movie is so successful.

Yes. I mean, look, well, I don't know. How sequentially are we proceeding here? Because like the crux of the movie is the Larry Summers scene, which Zuckerberg's not even in. Yes.

But we can get to that, I guess. But yes, they definitely see Zuckerberg as like a little worker man that they can bring in to do, to, you know, activate their great ideas. Hammer's delivery, the moment where he, because, you know, Zuckerberg says like, this is MySpace, Friendster,

what are you pitching to me? Sure. And they go, it's the exclusivity, harvard.edu. Yes, right. Right? And there's an arrogance to which he delivers that as if it's like the fucking mic drop moment.

But this is undeniable. Right. Like, Zuckerberg completely gets it. And it's this like Harvard Masters of the Universe mentality, as you said, of these guys being like, we need to exert our superiority in everything we do in our lives, right?

The way it's obviously the joke of people who go to Harvard, how many times are they going to mention that they went to Harvard, right? And the Boys Club and the Connection and all this sort of shit, right? It's like they also now are trying to extend that onto the internet. They want to make sure that

everyone knows that they are superior on the internet but it's upholding a pre-existing system versus zuckerberg immediately seeing them being like well wait a second if they're going to hire me to make their website to perpetuate their thing the tradition that i cannot break through why wouldn't i instead do this for myself and make a new system in which I establish what the social strata is? Yeah. Social network.

Facebook. Take another drink. Thefacebook.com. Thefacebook.com. Well, I have one note on that. Drop the dot. It's cleaner. So, obviously,

as this movie is proceeding, we are being interrupted by the depositions. This, you know, clever screenplay style where, like, we, you know, we, the are being interrupted by the depositions. This, you know, clever screenplay style where, like, we, you know, we, the audience,

are in the momentum of things are being created and then it's like, stop. Eduardo Saverin, your friend in this movie, is now suing you. Stop.

The Winklevosses and Divya Narendra are suing you and Eduardo's there too, you know, as a witness. Well, no, that's the empty chair.

Well, he, no, but remember, he's sitting. Oh, you're right. He empties the chair after his testimony. Which is a great, great moment. Yeah. But, right, and so you're like, wisely, the movie's just like, you know, just FYI, so you know, as you probably do, like, this is all going to end in, like, legal bickering. Because we're just watching kids talking college but like billions are at stake

also the smart framework of this movie of like often these stories that are being made the films being made so shortly after the real life events well how do you end your movie if we're still existing in the timeline of this thing if we don't

have perfect perspective on it. And it's like, that's the loop here. The loop is the creation of this thing through to these two lawsuits, everyone arguing who gets the credits, the glory, the money. Or at least a piece of the pie. Right. And what happens from this point, who

knows? But this is the difficult birth process of this weird thing that we now live with. It gives you a good end point to know where your stories. Yeah, no, it's clever.

Gonna stop clever construction. Yes, obviously. And so many of the iconic lines of this completely iconic screenplay are in deposition scenes, you know, and I remember certain now I'm so used to this movie, but like,

I definitely remember at the time, like the first time I saw it being kind of like thrown, like, you know, by the cutting to all the account, how am I supposed to be keeping track of this? Like how much of this movie is evidence that I need to reference back every time we're cutting back to the boardrooms.

Then of course you watch the whole movie and you realize like, of course, none of this really matters. He will settle with all of these people it's meaningless but you could classify this movie as a legal drama which i think is fascinating you could yeah sort yeah sure why not but um it's a legal drama in a very contemporary way of like yeah all of these things get settled behind closed doors with nda signed and money given over and like it doesn't matter. And the resolution is for Zeta Jones going like, just fucking pay them. It doesn't matter.

Well, she's not even saying, that's my advice. She's saying like, FYI, that is happening. You're one of the worst witnesses I've ever seen in deposition. You come off as so arrogant and mean. This is a parking ticket to you. And right. And also, right. Move on with your life. You have hundreds of billions of dollars. It doesn't matter. Settle with them. Move on.

Which is what happened obviously yeah and that should make this movie feel like it has no stakes because as i said every single person in this movie got so much money yes and they got so much money often for what amounted to like a semester in college like of like oh yeah sure great you know i'll help you know i'll write some code for you or i'll give you a little seed money or something so like everyone's fine yeah quote unquote but it you feel the dread and like the horror and also you are so attached to mark and eduardo in this movie like to their friendship and like we can briefly mention like this movie is like an iconic film in tumblr slash fiction culture sure like like so so huge for like people you know sort of inventing like romance and like deep you know connection like you know just like off of the chemistry of these two actors garfield one of the most innately empathetic actors of his his eyes His eyes are always shimmering. His voice always sounds like it's

cracking. Yes. Yeah. His introduction, we watched the whole sort of like face smash, coding, intercut with party. Eduardo shows up, don't you think you'll get in trouble? He comes in at the end of that sequence, right? Well, but he's saying like, when do you want to stop doing this?

We've watched the whole hand-cover covered bruise. Hand covers bruise is such a fucking good name for that track too. Yeah, it is. Um, but we've watched that whole walk. And then at the end of this,

like big sort of, uh, uh, coding sequence, the triumph of the thing getting uploaded, you cut out to Eduardo arriving at the dorms. Mm hmm. And he's dressed like a grown-up.

Which was apparently the real Eduardo Severin's vibe. He wore suits to college. The guy looks good. And there's this tiny Garfield movie star moment where he takes out his badge that he has to swipe and he like does it to the side almost in like a little bit of a Gene Kelly

move. Not to overstate it. But just immediately from behind you're like this guy's got a little more finesse than any of the dudes I just saw upstairs. And he comes upstairs, and the first thing he asks is, Mark, are you okay? Yeah, right. I heard it. So it's also, here's the first guy. Heard you broke up with Erica. He's like actually emotionally caring for her.

Yeah, he is. And Zuckerberg's like. In this movie, he is. How do you know? How do you hear about that? Your blog. You're blogging about it as we speak. Right. And he goes, well, do you see know, how do you hear about that? Your blog. You're blogging about it as we speak.

Right, and he goes, well, do you see about the website? Because I'm not asking, like, Erica. No, but then even as they then switch to the website, Wardo is the one being like, this is going to get you in trouble

when maybe we call it a night. Also, I have the algorithm, I'll write it on the... He can't help himself, right. It's just such efficient characterization of, like, first just in movement, in visuals, this guy is cooler

than these other guys. While still being a nerd, he has a little something that Zuckerberg can't even fake. Well, but he... That's why Zuckerberg uses him, I think, both in real life and in this movie. It's like he has a foot in each world. He's empathetic. He's a nerd. He actually knows how to emotionally connect to people, or at least try. Yep. It's like he has a foot in each world. He's empathetic. He's a nerd. He actually knows how to emotionally connect

to people or at least try. Yeah. And also he does like carry his own weight in this world. Even if he's within this group seen as a little bit more

of the businessman, a little bit more of the grown up. Yeah. But he, you know. It's not like he's a dilettante. Yeah. Well, he actually kind of was,

I think. But yeah. Within this movie, I'm talking, when I'm talking about. I know. I'm putting all these names in quotes. The I'm talking... When I'm talking about... I know. I'm putting all these names in quotes. The question in the movie...

It's the characters in the movie. But the question in the movie, I think, is... Yes, of course, Zuckerberg and Eduardo are friends. I think the algorithm on the window is important. It is. Yeah. Yeah, because he uses it to make face mash. That's what you mean, right?

No. I do think they're genuinely friends. But that he provides something. But then, like, one of the most quietly brutal little moments, of course, is they've been working on Facebook together. Eduardo gives them a little money. They make this thing.

Yeah. And then he's like, it's ready to go. Give me the emails of everyone in the Porcelain or the Phoenix Club or whatever it is in your club. And that is Zuckerberg's... He's not wrong, but we'll just send it to them and it spreads from there. Like, you know, that is the algorithmic way of thinking about this.

Yes. But it feels callous. And suddenly it feels like, oh, he's just, is he just friends with Eduardo, like, for this? Much like he's gonna brush off the Winklevii until they mention that they were a crew. Right. And now that lit something in him, you know? He's having fun with this as like a project until Eduardo mentions that he got punched by the Porcelain.

Yeah. Or by the Phoenix. I mean, it's the Phoenix. I was, you know, who fucking, I can't. And then that immediately makes him go, let's step outside. I want to go bigger with this. It's like every time he gets some sort of reminder of the things in the conversation with Erica,

it like lights a fire in his belly to be like, we have to go 10% harder. The party scene where Wardo goes, He's got the hat on. It's like another little movie star moment of like, Garfield's undeniable, and he just makes Eduardo a guy who's just a little bit cool. I was doing his little shimmy there, to be clear. It's a good shimmy. It's such a tough supporting

actor year. It's not surprising. But you were just complaining about this with another movie. Matt Damon, True Grit. Exactly. And it's just like a really tough five. Jeffrey Rush is the weak one, and it's like, that's an Oscar winner giving a very big emotional performance in the Best Picture winner.

Yeah. And then Christian Bale, you're sort of like quasi-lead, I guess. Yeah. No, but... It's a really tough five. Yeah. And Ruffalo getting

his first nom. Yeah, which was overdue at that point, but now in retrospect, I'd throw that to Garfield or Damon now that Ruffalo got his other nom.

I think Ruffalo's... I think he's very good in that. So good in that movie. But my feeling at the time was just like thank god we're finally nominating him for something I certainly have Garfield and Damon in my five so

neither Ruffalo nor Geoffrey Rush Jeremy Renner in The Town who was nominated John Hawks in Winter's Bone who was nominated and of course Ken Watanabe in Inception one of my favorite performances ever of course if you want to be an old man filled with regret waiting to die alone bought the airline i seem cleaner um you can keep going no please yeah uh no okay so uh wardo and zuck yeah i mean i think they just thread the perfect

needle of like i do believe they have some genuine connection yes but obviously they met in college so it's not like they were long time friends no and there is a transactional element to it which is like fucking harvard that's all it is especially these harvard undergrads it's like well how can you get me somewhere you know like who do you know and who do i know and right, a lot of that is probably just always floating in the air there. Yeah. Except for Joe Mazzello, who's just like, hey, baby, I'm just sitting here for the ride. By casting Garfield,

he's going to give a performance where you innately believe that he cares about this guy to some degree. To some degree. Yeah. He does care. He feels bad. There are the little sorkiny moments, and that's such sorkin' shit. Yes. Much like that moment in Chicago 7, where what is it? It's like, care he feels bad there are the little sorkiny moments and that's such sorkin shit yes much like that moment in chicago seven where what is it it's like abby hoffman is like oh i read your speeches

you know like shit like that you know like i defended you about the chicken like you know you know like those little moments zuckerberg may be using eduardo you know befriending him strategically but you also can't deny it. This guy's nicer to him than anyone else. Because he seems kind of... He doesn't have a ton of options. Yeah. He is by default his best friend.

I am meeting a Sour Patch Kid. One Sour Patch Kid. One little kid. Green? Green. Best one. I might agree. Wow.

I might agree with you on that. Wow. Ben? I like green. Wow. But I like blue, too. Now that's controversial. That's right.

I feel like that's a bolder take. Yeah, we'll save that for the dragon tattoo episode. We don't have room for that in this episode. We can all agree on green blue talk will happen in the next one okay so what happens next in the film at what point

as you said there's this going back and forth of Minghella's character clocking how do they first find out again that he started this site well it starts to go around and Minghella is you know Divya's how do they first find out again that he started this site? Well, it starts to go around and Minghella is, you know,

Divya's at the... Oh, yes, when he does the fall. That's what I'm saying. You know, he's at this like a, what is called acapella performance or whatever. Yes. He sees it.

He's like, holy shit. He goes to the Winklevosses and it's one of my, all the Winklevoss stuff to me is just so crucial to this movie telling a story about how like success and

you know capitalism worked in America and was changing where it's the I forget which is which but you know one of the Winklevi is slightly nicer than the other one like one of them is a little harder edged and it's the I think it's Tyler might be the nice one who's like well we don't sue people.

We're gentlemen of Harvard. That whole thing. The whole men of Harvard attitude is like. And Divya has the really good. He's like, you thought he was the only one who was going to think that was stupid? Yeah. So this guy doesn't understand the rules have already changed. But like.

These entire systems that they have bought into that they think give them capital in the world. Which have given them capital, to be clear. And they are obviously tremendously wealthy people. But are like eroding in rapid time. Right. But just like, I love that idea that he's like, it's low class to sue someone. That is not what we do.

Right. Like that is obnoxious. That is stooping to his level or whatever. We'll, of course, just triumph because we're the best. Like, our product will be better. Like, what we're offering, you know, our faces, our, you know, whole affect is better. But in a world where everything is run off of computers,

the people who know how to write the code that computers use basically have the ability to rewrite reality. And also, I mean, Divya is obviously really smart in just being like like he got there first like we are that's it we're fucked like we could just like launch the same website and be like but ours you know is by six foot four guys who recruit he doesn't care about any of the shit you're fucking talking about and he doesn't have to win anyone over in the court of public opinion because everyone wants to be on Facebook. Yeah, exactly.

He did it. He did it. It's done. It's also like for as much as the Winklevike sued Zuckerberg and got a settlement because maybe he, you know, like whatever borrowed elements of their idea. They got a pitiful paltry $50 million each, whatever the fuck. Way more than that. Oh, that's what they got publicly.

Right. But you know, they eventually made a website and it was shitty. I think it was genuinely shitty. that oh that's what they got publicly right um but um you know uh like they eventually made a website and it was shitty like I think it was like it was like genuinely shitty yeah and Facebook was obviously connect you it's called connect you yeah makes me think of connect for

I'm out I'm not playing a board game here I go back to the Eisenberg thing of like they were overthinking it yeah right you needed a guy who already thought about social of like they were overthinking it. Yeah. Right. You needed a guy who already thought about social relationships like they were code. But obviously

they still think they're playing by different rules and they have this whole revelation of like well the Harvard fucking student book

Yeah. says you can't steal from students. So Ben There are rules that we all agree to. Larry Summer, president of Harvard, this scene, that is so good.

The actor in this scene is a man named Douglas Urbanski. Doug Urbanski. Okay. Who is Gary Oldman's producing partner and not an actor. Not an actor. He's his producing partner,

I believe also his manager. Yes. He's like his business partner, I should say. Yeah. Because he was like a theater producer. I don't know how Oldman links up with him originally,

but they start working together on Nail by Mouth, which is the movie Gary Oldman directed. Yeah, but which is like, I mean, Douglas Urbanski is like a guy from New Jersey. Totally.

And like, Nail by Mouth is like this harrowing tale of life and, you know, the projects in London. It's like, you know, really, really really I was trying to dig into it and I could not find how they got linked up but basically from that

moment on they're joined by the hip he's his business manager he's producer on a lot of his films he is not an actor no he was a frequent guest of Rush Limbaugh yeah he's a right winger or at least used to be you know like a very Rush Limbaugh right Yeah, he's a right-winger, or at least used to be. You know, like a very Rush Limbaugh-y right-winger. Like sort of loud

and obnoxious in that way. I don't know. I mean, obviously, Fincher eventually worked with Oldman and really admires Oldman. Also, Fincher and Oldman share an ex-wife. They sure do. The mother of Fincher's daughter. They do, undeniably.

And they had been, they're projects they talked about doing. They're obviously guys who existed in, you know, adjacent spheres for a long time. I still don't really know what the story is of Fincher being like, you know who'd be great to play Summers. Which is a scene where you could bring in

a heavyweight actor. Absolutely. Because, like, it makes sense. This is Larry Summers was Secretary of Treasury. Yes. He was a celebrity in. Absolutely. Because, like, it makes sense. This is, Larry Summers was Secretary of Treasury. Yes. He was a celebrity in this world. Like, so it'd be fine

if you had fucking name and, you know, John Lithgow or whatever show up for one scene and kind of, like, All of your characters are under 25. You could be like,

well, here's a good opportunity to get an established August character actor, a friendly face. Right. Someone just fucking nailing it. And yet, this performance is transfixing. Urbanski says, okay, I found an interview here.

You know, I hate to admit this, but David may have seen a vague physical resemblance. He says, I didn't study Larry Summers for the role because I, quote, I couldn't be less interested in Larry Summers. Talk to a couple people, you know. Right. Larry Summers has hair. Douglas Urbanski does not. So the resemblance is not that strong. Like, I think they both are kind of

stocky guys. That's about sort of similar age range. But like, I don't really know. You know, he's not really, because Urbanski's probably like kind of too you know, inside Hollywood to be like, oh, you know, this is how it happened. He's just like, I don't know.

Fincher wanted me to do it, so I did it. It's fine. He's amazing in this movie. He's amazing. But you, not that I recommend the same one, but you dig into his interviews on extremist right-wing outlets in the 90s and early 2000s. And there's something to the way in which he talks about, like, these idiots, they don't get it.

You know? That feels like a straight line to this performance. There's some brilliance, though, to Fincher being like, is any actor, regardless of how good he is, for a one-scene part,

gonna nail this better than getting the guy who just exudes this energy? Right. Right? I mean... And he's got a great speaking voice. He's so funny in this scene. I watch this scene

monthly. I watch this scene all the time. And there's something to the fact I think in terms of him being a non-actor where he has the energy of... Obviously the characters, can we get this over with? I don't want to be in this fucking meeting. Like written in that great Sorkin way of like, and you're here and they start to,

you know, do some, you know, exposition. He's like, I understand why you're here. Why are you here? They keep doing it.

He's like, I know that. Why are you here? And then you finally realize that he's trying to get through to them. Like, how did you make it in here? Right. How did this bullshit reach my desk?

I'm in charge of Harvard. I'm not in charge of like, you know, some tiny little liberal arts college where like, sure, I have to mediate between a thousand students total. This is Harvard University. It's a very large organization. Urbanski, the person I think genuinely is exuding.

Can we get this over with? I'm not an actor. Gary's on the phone. He wants two extra points on the contender. Right. We're spending three days on a fucking three-page scene. He's demanding a character poster for the Book of Eli, and I think he deserves it.

Yes, these are the kinds of things that Douglas Urbanski is used to occupy. He genuinely feels like he wants to be out of the scene, which is perfect for the scene. That's the thing. It's that his complete disinterest in making a meal out of this role versus any actor, regardless of how comfortable they were in the reputation, would be like, this is a fucking good scene. I can nail this university or whatever right let's point out too they're identical twins abuse of dress alike i mean and are it's absurd it's just absurd they're the same person i'm sure sorkin is reading well i'm 65 220 there's two of me and also the karate kid yeah we don't want to look like we're in

scott's outfit it's true it's chasing the karate kid yeah but i mean i'm sure sorkin cracks the book and he's like wait you're telling me that this little reedy Jewish nerd. Yes. Like who's a computer dork was being sued by fucking Olympic rowers who are identical twins. Who like golden gods. Like what? Right. And they invest so much stock into this idea of Harvard and what it represents and what it will translate into for the rest of their lives.

Right. This this like badge they will proudly wear on their chest forever. They go into like the highest office of Harvard. And they truly think that he's going to be like, you're totally right. Of course. I've just checked the handbook. You're right. Yeah.

And he's like, I don't fucking care. I have a business to run. That that lady has like Harvard students are so interested in inventing jobs rather than just going and getting one like he's very interested in harvard as a business he doesn't care about the fucking mythology that like the magic of what harvard represents in the minds of little wasps 500 year institution right and like also like i mean anyone i know who's actually gone to harvard as an undergraduate which these kids were is always kind of like it's fucking harvard like the graduate schools are so important that that's where

everyone's attention is. The undergrads, it's just kind of like, yeah, you were best at your school. Fine. Go do your work. We're not interested in you. And then you'll go figure your shit out. But this era is so unsufferable for guys like Eduardo and Mark

and Moskowitz and everyone who like worked their way into this school by like actually, you know. Well, Eduardo was rich. I'm not saying they couldn't afford it, right? But it's like they had to like in high school create shit that actually was of value. Right, Eduardo's fucking doing futures bets

based on meteorology and Zuckerberg. Right, Eduardo's fucking doing futures bets based on meteorology and Zuckerberg created a fucking algorithm that he, you know, Microsoft wanted to buy, you know, when he was a teenager or shit like that. To repeat my point, they show up here and they're like, well, here I'm going to be valued and it's still guys like fucking this.

And it makes them want to tear the whole fucking thing down. Collateral damage, be damned. It's just, I just think it's so funny to watch them realize in that scene, because that's the scene, that's the end of them. Right. Really having a shot at beating Zuckerberg. Because then they go gloves off and they're way too late at that point.

Right. But it's just like, it's over. Yes. We lost. We thought the rules worked the way they are supposed to work for people like us. Yes. And this, I'm saying this as a Jewish guy, crafty little Jew has fucking outfoxed us. Yes.

And like, despite having no personality, being unlikable in the pages of the Harvard Crimson. Like, you know. Like a violent lack of personality. Literally like launching his reputation on doing like something like horribly sexist like and attracting like genuine criticism from like women's groups like if he forky said this and i had to agree with this she's like if he did that today he would get like kicked out of harvard like if you like yeah did some weird sexist invective on the internet and then created like lady ranking site like you know that wouldn't it just be like a slap on the wrist

it would be like get out of here yeah being international news in Madagascar they'd be like you did what Alex Alex the lion Marty the zebra don't know the name of the character Melvin the giraffe King Bruno

so that scene is just so crucial I think to move it that seems funny that's who's reading the news in Madagascar the penguins King Bruno so that scene is just so crucial that scene's funny that's who's reading the news in Madagascar the penguins the circus Afro circus I think Gloria's the

hippo going you invoked it I mean I invoked the name of the country Madagascar which happens to sure name with a franchise have you ever talked about the different chronologies happening we've talked about it on this podcast multiple times. I don't think I've ever mentioned it. I don't think I've ever mentioned it.

So that is... I'd remember if I'd talked about it. That is the end of the Winklevii, in a way. Like, yes, as you say, then they try to kind of go gloves off. Doesn't work. There's the regatta scene, which we should obviously mention. But certainly their challenge to Zuckerberg is there's the regatta scene, which we, you know, should obviously mention. But like,

certainly their challenge to Zuckerberg is blunted once Summers shuts them down. Yes. No, they think,

great, now we'll mount a full-scale legal attack. They have this match, what do you call it, a rowing match? It's a race,

I mean. A race? It's a race. They lose? Painfully close. This was the Olympic qualifying event? Is that right? No, it's the Royal Regatta at Henley.

It's like a really big rowing event that happens every year in March on the Thames, the River Thames, if you know it, in London. But they're at this fucking... That is an event for aristocrats.

Like, you know i've never been to the royal regatta but i know that if you're going there you're gonna have to wear a fucking straw boater or like a fascinator or whatever country club like whiskey and cigar room fucking sports blazer all the shit that harvard you're so close i mean harvard is only pretending much like all the american ivies to be that old and then when you go to england it's like this shit is that old. This shit is a... We've been doing this shit

for a thousand fucking years. And it was aristocrats then, and it's aristocrats now. And they already know that they're, like, they fucked up, right? They're too late now. There's only so much gain

they can recover. Right. That's where, of course, they hear that it spread to Oxford. And then they're like, we're 40 times more fucked than we thought we were. And also the fact that

this fucking guy is impressed by Facebook. Right, right, right. Right, their friend's dad. Prince Albert of Monaco. Yeah, it's Prince Albert of Monaco. Oh, it is? Jesus.

Because that's the joke. You know, Divya is like, or one of them says, like, don't worry, his country is like the size of Nantucket. Right, right, right, right, right. But like, already,

they're obsessed with the failure they just experienced, which everyone is sort of like patting them on the back in pity, you know? Good try. Next time you'll get them. Very good. Very close.

By the way, have you heard about this? It's a website. Thefacebook.com? Not sure what that means. It's so glorious as the viewer their brutal failure to see it all just sort of really stack on top

but then you also are like yeah but then I'm not rooting for Mark Zuckerberg what's so good about this movie is you're always kind of like I'm not even sure where am I supposed to be putting my loyalties and it's sort of with this movie is you're always kind of like, I'm not even sure where am I supposed to be putting my loyalties? And it's sort of with Eduardo because, like you say, he's sort of the emotional center of the movie. He's the heart of the movie, but Zuckerberg is the protagonist.

But then also, as you watch this movie, especially now, you're like, wait, did he really just like not, he just like went back to school? Like he went to his internship? Like, what was he doing? Like, it's like, there's so- He was playing the old game. Right, exactly's he's doing another version of playing the like well you have to that's the path that's the track he was like selling ads yeah we're gonna get some ads right which once again is the most it's like something that personally hurts mark it's not as much in my read that he's like that stupid strategically he does think it's super strategically he does

which it was obviously but I think he's also like how could you value that old system versus what you are and I are making right you and I are fighting against the world sure and you want to be with them you still want their approval it's another version of wanting to get into the club

like I mean the split happens because March by the Phoenix. Well, that's part of it. Well, that's already happened, obviously. No, but I'm saying it's an extension of him wanting the internship. There's some enmity of Mark being like... Mark both maybe desiring that path and

resenting it. The traditional path that Eduardo's going on. He wants to tear it down. Well, partly out of... He wants to tear it down. Well, partly out of... He wants to be part of it as well, though. You know, like... Because that's what he's saying. Like, we need to expand

to the most elite universities and to Stanford and to, you know, like, all that stuff. But then they meet Sean Parker. And Sean Parker... Of course, we meet Sean Parker in a wonderful scene

featuring Dakota Johnson that might be the funniest scene in the movie just because of when Sean Parker says, like, there's a snake in here and she has to come out of the shower. the funniest scene in the movie just because of when Sean Barker says, like, there's a snake in here and she has to come out of the shower. Biggest star in the movie comes in like an hour in.

I think he's at the 55-minute mark. Yeah. And, you know, he sees Facebook. He's like, I want to meet this guy. And in Sean Barker, and this is true to life, I think, Zuckerberg is meeting someone who, like, has that vibe

of, like, we're tearing it down. I don't listen to what they tell me. Like big businesses come after me. Fuck them. Who cares? Like, sure. I don't make money.

It doesn't matter. Like I'm cool. I can go to restaurants. Everyone knows me like all this shit. I have models hanging off my arms. Right. I mean, he's kind of actually,

he's really like the proto Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. That's a hundred percent what he is, but also kind of predicting that mentality yeah of of like getting all these vc investors and just and creating these products and having this braggadocious nature about you also his line where he's like napster didn't fail it changed the music industry forever. Right. And now you're watching and you're like, you ruined everything, Parker.

Let me at you. He made no money off of it. Right. Right? Yeah. It like was beaten into the ground. But his victory is I destroyed something. I destroyed an institution.

I destroyed the way things used to work. No one can say that's a failure. I broke a corner of the world forever, which he's right about. But that's exactly who Mark wants to work. No one can say that's a failure. I broke a corner of the world forever. Which he's right about. But that's exactly who Mark wants to be. I will say it is the one thing in this movie, and I always bump on it a tiny bit, and perhaps

I'm just being so fucking petty about this. It is the only thing in this movie where I feel in the script Sorkin's lack of knowledge of any of these people or the things that they created is when Dakota Johnson knows him.

Sean Parker's the founder of Napster. I just think for all of us growing up, Sean Fanning was the guy where it's like he's the Zuckerberg, he's the guy who coded Napster, and Sean Parker was his Eduardo. Sure, but you are being petty. I just think until Facebook,

Sean Parker was not the known of the two. Even if he gained a lot of reputation in Silicon Valley and all of that. Yeah, but where are they? Silicon Valley. Exactly. That's the only reason it doesn't matter to me. I don't think her character would know it, but it's my only gripe of that kind in this whole movie.

You just have to forgive it as screenwriting. And also, I accept it. I think this film's a perfect masterpiece. If this was Oxford University and someone knew who Sean Parker was, I'd be like, there's no way anyone knew who Sean Parker was. I would arrest this movie. You would arrest it. I would arrest it. Under arrest.

But in Stanford, I'm like, eh, she probably might know who that is. So, yes. Yeah. He is. To my point, though, I'll say, since this movie's come out, I feel like Sean Fanning exists in no one's memory. Everyone just credits Sean Parker with everything connected to Napster now.

I mean, it's because Parker knew how to market himself, obviously, in a way. But it's also, yeah, because Fanning never really, he never really made anything else that took off. Whereas Parker, you know, he's very crucial to the launch of Facebook.

Every time they tried to relaunch Napster as a new paid premium service, Sean Fanning would like come by and be like, Hello, it's me, the mayor of Napster. Napster. Jesus. Remember the cat? Yeah. No, I remember it all, man.

Fucking downloading, you know know sugar babes albums or whatever anyway like Sean Parker sugar babes shout out sugar babes if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about look it up great British pop band I think the green sugar babes is the best one I know Ben likes the blue one I was just trying to think of like

a 2001 thing that I might have not the whole because the whole thing with Napster for me was I was like, I buy records. But then there's other stuff where I'm like, well, maybe I don't want to buy that. We were similar dorks where I was like, I'm only using Napster for bands where I

only like one song. Or maybe I check an album out and if I like it, maybe I'll buy it. I wasn't like some kids I knew where they were like, just downloaded the entire discography of Western music yesterday. Yeah. And I have it on this hard drive. And now I can listen to it all the time. And I'm like,

but how could you possibly listen to all that? They're like, who knows, but I got it. I think the big deal, though, really was if you were into like underground or out of issue music or hard to find music. All of a sudden you were like, I don't have to take a bus

into the city and like go through like now, go to the village. Yeah. No, 100%. I could just discover anything. It was really mind blowing.

Napster was a big deal. I'll admit it. You know what? I'll admit it. Napster had some impact. Very big of you. But he's empowering to zuckerberg in and in this movie's perspective i think it's like you know he's a pretty maybe

villainous is too strong but he's an insidious character obviously because he's encouraging you know i mean peter teal shows up a normal and chill man in real life but even in this movie you kind of get the sense of like like, right. You know, like this sort of cocoon is building around him. And he's Zuckerberg with style. I don't just mean visually. No. But in the way that Eduardo has the finesse

that he does not in how to interact with people. Even if he's being brash, it is in a way that is compelling. Which Zuckerberg is not interpersonally and when like wardo is like he is bad and we shouldn't be aligned with him right he is from the from a business perspective so completely wrong yes from the emotional perspective of the movie you're like yes this is yeah you're right like this these are not good people and you also know just like yeah

they're just gonna make facebook which is bad yeah that's the other part that you're sort of thinking the longer the range gets like the more this is an older and older movie it's just like yeah jesus somebody stopped them elections are gonna get fucked up because of this and like multiple countries within the world of the movie it's like like there's there maybe even could be a scene where zuckerberg sits eduardo savern down and goes like we don't need to make money right now there will we will get venture capital this is how the fucking silicon valley works we didn't invent this that's an old bottle of finance mark knows this guy by reputation but the second he sits down at the table and he watches how he interacts with everyone there especially with eduardo's girlfriend it's like

well this guy has immediately by the way's song, by the way, shout out. Absolutely hilarious. And this was so funny. Really fucking good. In like a fairly underwritten, sorkiny lady character who's just like into Eduardo for two scenes and then crazy for two scenes.

Set shit on fire. Yes, but she's so funny. The second Zuckerberg is actually watching Sean Parker exist in person... Right, he's like in awe. Zuckerberg is just watching Sean Parker exist in person. He's like in awe. Zuckerberg is just like dumbstruck. It's become his entire mood board of this is the realization of who I become. Who I want to be.

The version of me that makes the most sense. Yes. I'm going to have my business card say, what's it? Which is a real thing. CEO bitch. That was a real thing that Zuckerberg did. Again, as you said, Griff, he really presents himself only around when this movie's coming out. That was a real thing that Zuckerberg did. Again, as you said, Griff, like,

he really presents himself like only around when this movie's coming out. It's like, what do you mean? I'm the most normal guy in the world. I love to wear t-shirts

and shorts, real meat, you know, got a wife and kid. I'm not like one of those normal CEOs. I'm not stuck up. And then you hear like,

oh, he got business cards printed saying I'm CEO bitch. And you're like, well, that's pretty crass. And then you're like, I guess he was 20.

Like, I guess I should remember. It's so funny. A child. In the way that like you watch the Fyre Festival documentary and everyone's like, Billy McFarlane, the guy was so magnetic. When you're in a room with him,

he could sell you anything. And you watch the interviews and he's like, I had an idea to make a concert. The night. Right. Where you watch video footage of Zuckerberg, and you're like, how could this guy ever sell the swagger

of the, like, asshole, little stinker shit he's doing when it feels like he'd, like, break into tears coughing in public. Right? Like, of embarrassment. If someone caught him sneezing. Like the Aaron Sorkin scene,

where, like, what is that? You know, and he's like, it's like a glottal stop. You know, obviously Zuckerberg's trying to tank that meeting, I think is the idea. But he did shit like this all the time. But he was weird. Yes. And anyone who's not like Peter Thiel, who, of course, is very normal. The most normal.

By the way, he's funding this podcast now. We should make it very clear. No. He's our only sponsor. No. Every, we have to do three ad reads it's like peter teal what i like about him normal normal guy but like peter teal can look at zuckerberg and be like you know i don't like he's giving us no money yeah i don't like

him uh you're the kind of freak like i understand like you know sure you know i get that this is the kind of person who makes a fucking website, but like some Madison Avenue ad exec would be like, what the, what are you wearing? Like, can you make eye contact with me? Like, you know, like imagine Don Draper meeting Zuckerberg.

Yes, but that's like, that's what this guy exists to be in opposition to. Obviously, it's Sorkin in the Gladwell stop scene. He's perfectly cast. He's really funny. I think Sorkin should act more. I honestly do. Yeah, it's Sorkin in the Gladwell stop scene. He's perfectly cast. He's really funny. I think Sorkin should act more. I honestly do.

Yeah, and maybe direct less. Yeah, exactly. Let's bring these sliders down. I need to be willing to be like, Sorkin, you can be the lead in your next movie if someone else directs it. Thing I was going to say,

it is like a Luke, I am your father type thing. Whereas plays out in the movie, and I've seen this so many times, I forget every time that this is how it works. Million dollars isn't cool. You know what's cool.

Eduardo says, you, and then it cuts to the deposition. Right. And Eduardo is the one who delivers the line. Right, right. He doesn't actually say it.

He does say, drop the hoods cleaner. He does say that. It cuts back to the silence after he said it. But I have such a, like, implanted memory in my head of Timberlake leaning in

and saying a billion dollars, which you never see on screen. But of course, that is, that is a, Parker is again right where he's like you guys have to stop thinking about this like some cute little thing you made like there are billions of dollars at stake with this idea i love and i'm sure you guys too the nightclub scene so much the fincher choice of the music is loud it is and you can barely hear what they're saying i feel like it's

the only movie the only time anyone's ever done this. And it's been 13 years and everyone should be copying it. People have obviously done like night club scenes where the music is loud. Yeah. But they're all about no dialogue. The atmosphere is overwhelming for whatever reason. Someone's losing it. Someone's having fun. This is just like, no, these two guys are having a regular business conversation.

Yes. It's just at a night club where the music is so fucking annoying, they're screaming at each other. And it's not just the volume of it it's that weird intensity of like you cannot have a subtle conversation in a place where music is playing this loud you know I go home from like nights at bars and I go like did I sound like a fucking

moron because everything I want to say I had to yell I had to go like and the thing you have to understand is he didn't really get his blank check until his seventh movie and like that's what he's he's telling the sorkin-y tale of the Victoria's Secret guy I mean Mark Zuckerberg even has that joke

like I said was that a parable or whatever you know like but like it's I love that scene so Timberlake's so good in that scene I mean Zuckerberg plays all the Timberlake stuff great because I mean Eisenberg because he does actually seem like odd to be in the room with him

every time. You also, you realize it's one of those things where it's like power in absence. Yeah. You realize this character is basically not listening to anything anyone has said to him the entire movie, right? He's almost always looking somewhere else, deep in his own thoughts, immediately dismissing

it. And then it's only in these early sean parker scenes where zuckerberg is like captive he's leaning forward he's reactive and as you said it's like a little boy meeting spider-man like it's like he's looking at him like it's like i cannot believe i get to be in the presence of you. You are the coolest person I've ever met in my life. He's so blown away by every new revelation, every like insight. When they're the dinner scene where they're like testing their competing theories on what they should do. Right. And Parker has the line where he's like, so which of us is right? And he's like, both of you kind of. You know?

Right. He's like, you're both kind of right but for the wrong reasons. The thing you guys don't understand is that what you have right now is cool

and it's indefinable and you need to just run with that. Which is like what they did. And the more he explains it, the more Mark keeps going, yes, yes, exactly.

This is what I was saying. So I'm finally saying what I haven't been able to articulate. He won't stop seconding everything keeps going, yes, yes, exactly. This is what I was saying. So I'm finally saying what I haven't been able to articulate. He won't stop seconding everything. Again, it is so ironic to consider how uncool Facebook became. Yes. Like, because this movie, now you watch it and you're like, Facebook, cool,

but it was cool. And that it is this ineffable thing of like, it's cool. People want to be on it. It's cool. But it stayed cool enough. Like the blank check Patreon. That's what the blank check Patreon is like now. It's still cool. It's exclusive. But it stayed cool enough. Like the blank check Patreon. That's what the blank check Patreon is like now. It's still cool. It's exclusive. No, it's the difference between MySpace and Friendster.

Is it stayed cool enough to achieve total world domination? Where then when the floodgates opened, it was like, yeah. And there's so much stuff that like, you know, a couple of years ago, like 10 years ago. Now I feel like this is the exact same shit that fucking Musk is trying to do with X, where they're like, Facebook should be the one resource used for everything. Play video games. Do it on Facebook. It should be your wallet. Do it on Facebook.

Yes. Yes. Right. It should be your digital life on Facebook. Right. Live here. You can't have legs. Right.

I mean, we used to live in farms and we live in cities. We're going to live in the Internet on Facebook. Right. Live here. But you can't have legs. Right. I mean, it's the Zuckerberg line. We used to live in farms and we live in cities and we're going to live in the internet. Right. Right. And I think a lot of people

were like, this is nefarious. This is like big brother shit. He wants us to like hand over all our information, which to some degree does because he understands that the ultimate currency

and that's the ultimate value they have as a company is possession of all of that. Right. But there's the other part of him that truly, I think, believes like that's the better way for him that truly, I think, believes like,

that's the better way for humans to live. Right. Well. Right? Like, he wants that. He thinks it's good.

I mean, the fact that many years later, he went, he was like, we're going all in on meta, we're going all in on this, like, virtual reality universe

because that surely isn't that what we've all been waiting for. That's the thing. It's not that he thinks... And then, like, everyone's reaction to this is like, no, we all been waiting for it's not that and then like everyone's reaction to this is like no we weren't waiting for this like we don't want to live on the fucking

holodeck from Star Trek bro I know you might it's not that he thinks he's doing a good for mankind no he's it's that he can only see the version of the world that he wants to live in which he's like I'd like to log into one thing and have everything solved for me, and then

I live in the holodeck. Maybe we should go all in on it, though, right now. Meta? Yeah, get into the metaverse. Yeah. What if our episodes become metaverse exclusives? That would be great. It would make us lots of money. Yeah, so instead of video, it's like you could be immersed in the episode. Video podcasts

are old news. Yeah. I want people to be right here in between our tables. And we'll all appear as Sims. Yeah, and I have bunny ears. We'll all be David Sims. Yeah, we'll all be David Sims. Sure, me. Yep.

My likeness. I'm the perfect man. Okay. I'm the baseline in this world. Let's move on. Yeah, well, I'm not the perfect man, to be clear. Physically. Mentally, yeah. Ben is the perfect man. That's true. Oh, yeah. Let's move on. Yeah. Well, I'm not the perfect man, to be clear. Physically. Mentally.

Ben is the perfect man. That's true. Oh, yeah. Physically and mentally. I agree. The end of this film, obviously, is the... Huh?

Skipping at the end already? Well, not the... The final act of the film is Silicon Valley. Yes. Is them in Silicon Valley. You do have, in Harvard, I believe,

the triumphant... Is it in Harvard? The triumphant coding scene? Oh, yes. Where the people are all hacking, just like a hackathon and the best one will get to be in Facebook. And Mark checks his code and is like, welcome to Facebook. And everyone flips out

and you can feel like for the first time in his life, this guy is cool. He feels cool in a room. Exactly. Yes. It's such a powerful scene. And it's impressive and scary. Like that shot of him standing there smiling, you're kind of like, good for him. And you're also kind of like, oh my God.

Like he's like becoming a god. That's the thing I think Fincher is really bringing to this. It's like, it's the meek shall inherit thing. Yeah. Combined with absolute power corrupts absolutely. Where it's like, we used to think the dominant ruling forces

in the world were the wrong people. And what if the power could be redistributed? And if you give it to the people who have this chip on their shoulder about the world

doesn't value me enough, right? I'm not saying the oppressed. I'm saying the people who feel self-oppressed or socially oppressed, not actually oppressed, if they get the power, we will all be in the firing rage of their vindictive wrath.

Sure. Their contempt for humanity. You know, basically, like people grew up being like, why doesn't anyone think that I'm smart? Why doesn't anyone appreciate that I'm smart? Why don't they value that over? Why don't girls like me? Correct. He just knows that's like, right. You hand it over to those guys. You give them the ability to

rewrite everything and it's not going to turn out well for anyone. Just want to point out too, that while this is taking place is the chicken ongoing thread. But you I'm saying it's like he's he's designing his own challenge right the drinking challenge the coding challenge sure because there's so much jealousy yes about the fact that Wardo has been

invited on the way to the yeah on his way to be welcome chicken room and then he feeds the chicken some chicken nuggets and this is called cannibalism. I believe this is a real incident. I believe this actually did happen.

Yeah. Got written up in the Crimson or whatever. I mean, my favorite Garfield line delivery should have gotten the Oscar nomination for this alone is, you know, Don't the fish eat the other fish, the marlins and the trout. It's so funny. It's referencing them talking about marlins and trout like 15 minutes earlier in the movie i love it when screenplays do that yes where you're like that's why those words are in his head it's because they had that other conversation that didn't have anything to do

with this alex rouse perry talks about that a lot the story can think not that specific but the magic trick of like presenting something to you circling it underlining it put it right in front of your eyes leaving it there on the table for an hour right and then when you get back to it it still somehow feels like the audience is like he surprised you right yeah yeah even though he couldn't have made it more apparent yeah

Silicon Valley stuff like the maybe the clearest funniest version of Zuckerberg's like inherent awkwardness never leaving him is the beer. Him throwing the beer at the girl is funny. She misses it, smashes and then he just throws another one.

Every other person would be like, okay, she's not in the business of catching beer. What's so sexy is I'll buy more beer. I'll keep throwing it until you catch one. Who gives a shit? It's beer. Well, the whole vibe in this house is like a very like lame kind of chaos of like they're making a mess

and Parker walks in and really says this is perfect this is exactly what you should be doing and he's right he's like you should be living like fucking idiots it's just like like fucking lost boys right and like then just like diving into the pool with your shirt on like that's really all you need to do but he's like this is the

ethos from which this company gets to a billion dollars. Like you say, Wardo shows up and he's like, I've been kicking my ass riding the subway. I was waiting outside the airport in the rain. Right. Yeah. He's such a pathetic creature and you feel for him. But then like you are kind of like, why aren't you here? What are you thinking, buddy?

Like what you needed to do your Lehman Brothers internship? Like who fucking cares? No, I think he feels like, I think both, A, I need to at least set up the tracks for the conventional career path if this doesn't happen. Or B, I use what I gain from the real world to help this business. Rather than understanding this is the moving train, there's no need to lay down tracks anywhere else.

Just stay on board. Yeah, I think it truly hurts Mark. It hurts Mark because, correctly, Mark is like, you don't believe in this. And Wardo would probably be like, well, yeah, who knows? This might not amount to anything. And Mark's like, no, no, no.

I'm already resolute that this is amounting to something. And Mark's like, no, no, no. Like, I'm already resolute that, like, this is a mountain. And Parker reads it immediately. He goes, he went to New York. Yeah. So you're telling me he's not here? He's missing all this? Look, when you read about the reality of this situation,

it is, in retrospect, insane. Because you're like, yeah, he made a thing. It was a phenomenon. They were getting hundreds of thousands of members. He moves to Silicon Valley. And Eduardo Saverin was like, well, I think I want to like, you know,

do my Lehman Brothers internship and then like go back to Harvard. Right. And then like by the time they cut him out, which the movie dramatizes this way, but like, and you can read emails

from Zuckerberg where he's basically like, he's not even answering my emails. We're just going to fuck him. We're just going to cut him out. Yeah. And they cut him out by just making a new company,

having the new company buy the old company, and then completely changing the shares. And yes, they knew he would sue them, and they knew they'd have to settle. But they did it because they were just like, we can't make business decisions. He's not here. Yeah.

And like, that's just how he got fucked over. And then he went to Ben Mesrick and was like, I got fucked over. And this movie was born, and it's a masterpiece about toxic masculinity taking over you know a certain kind of toxic personality yeah taking over how people interact with each other for the rest of their lives yeah because one billionaire got screwed over by a bigger billionaire when they were 19 years old basically that's just funny to think about yeah no i agree with you i agree with you. I agree with you, yeah. You agree with me? I was trying to process a cannibalism joke

about the fucking chicken in Army Hammer. They're in the same movie, and I drafted like 40 versions, and none of them were worth repeating. Remember Keep Fucking That Chicken? Yes. That was so funny. What's the other one?

It takes a tender man to fuck a chicken, or whatever. Do you know that one? It's one of those famous news bloopers, and I think it's Mr. G. It takes a tough man to make tender chicken. Right. Is maybe the Purdue line.

Right. And then Mr. G, the local New York City newscaster legend. Mr. G. This was a couple years before he retired, was trying to quote that and said something like, it takes a tough man to fuck a tender chicken on the news and you just look at my favorite anchor a gas and then he has to say like I

apologize for the comment I mean I mean it's always good that's kind of what this early Facebook era is the same era where like what did like these YouTube exists for it's like to watch clips of local newscasters say something weird that is why

we have you're talking about the face smashing and people leaving the party to go to this website you were like is that realistic remember touring colleges right and I'm like at the fucking dorms I'm at the fucking frat houses like parties with whoever was like give me the guy and I'm like

trying to see what the social life is like here. 17 year old, right? Trying to hang out with college students, see if I could fit into this place. My strongest memory is being drawn into a room in a dorm, away from the party where everyone was drinking. And it was just people watching YouTube videos.

I mean, for like two hours. It was certainly true. All the way back in college, yes. Someone would be like, hey, can I show you a YouTube video? You'd watch it, and then suddenly it's like,

oh, this is our night. We're just going to keep finding more to watch. Hey, have you seen this one? Have you seen this one? This feels like the fun room to be in. Well, for Griffin Newman especially. Joe Breezy Patron Chug. That's where I discovered that.

Have you guys ever done keg stands? I've never done a keg stand Because It's so disgusting I'm more of a keg sit guy I do love to sit There's nothing more exhilarating Than getting up there It's a fun group activity

Gambling Various drugs Have you ever funneled a beer? I have done that than getting up there there are things it's a fun group back to me gambling well yeah various drugs have you ever funneled a beer i have done that okay yeah all right i have shotgun to beer i didn't have a stop baby i would be able to do it under 10 seconds there were those people who could like open their throat you know and it would be like oh it's so cool in britain there's a yard of beer are you where what a yard of beer is? No. Which is, I believe, I believe it's...

No, of course I am, because I almost went to smart college. You went to Cambridge, right? You were waitlisted at the good college. A yard of beer is two pints, and you get served it in this sort of like, you know, six foot long, like thin glass. Oh, sure. And you're supposed to go like, you know, like... You know, it's sort of like that. gross yeah i love a beer i love you know what beers for sipping flip cup flip cup i played flip cup see this is where i i played beer pong i love drinking

and i hated when sports got involved it's true low level i see and you know what i'm saying and it's true the people who really loved that shit were jocks. Correct. And I'd be like, I finally have like a fucking social lubricant. I have a thing that like knocks my anxiety down a couple rungs. And now I have to like And hang out situations. Use hand-eye coordination.

Which, by the way, is bad when I'm sober. Have I ever told this story? It's very quick. I don't know. But like middle school, one of those sort of like scared straight

health class were teaching you the dangers of drinking, showing you videos about drunk driving or whatever. And the teacher brought out drunk goggles, which are sort of like safety goggles that have lenses adjusted to make it look like what it feels like if you're like blackout drunk. And they

put a tape line on the floor and they were like, one by one, everyone's going to walk this line. And then you put the goggles on, try to walk the line with the goggles on. And this is what it feels like to walk when you're drunk. And the bit was, it was like watching Legends of the Hidden Temple or whatever. You'd watch and be like, but I'll fucking nail it when I get up there. Right? I got up there and they said, okay, so now walk the line without the goggles on.

And I fell down. You couldn't even do that. And then I said, okay, so now walk the line without the goggles on and I fell down. You couldn't even do that. And then I said, okay, well, give me the goggles. No, we're not going to let you. That's an auto fail there, buddy. You don't get to wear the goggles. And I think they finally let me.

I can't believe I haven't brought this up. This is like a really kind of totemic story in my adolescent years. I think the teacher let me put the goggles on as long as I held her hand I mean she had health and safety to worry about while you're breaking your neck

trying to learn about drinking anyway yeah I don't like beer so obviously the coup that happens right in front of Eduardo's face is so obviously the the coup that happens right in front of

Eduardo's face is he gets cut out of the company yeah when he returns to Facebook to celebrate their million users

is when he finds out you know it's hardly you have no shares you're sort of the timelines not the timelines but the

the sort of three narrative strands of the movies are starting to speed up and get closer and closer together. Almost Dunkirkian. Sure. You know? Temporalities.

Yes. And, you know, Mark smashes his laptop. Yeah. It's not to reduce it in this way. not to reduce it in this way. And I'm not even saying it's the peak of his performance because I think the real strength of it

is in a lot of the smaller moments we've discussed. But this is the scene where you're just like, it's kind, it is astounding even in a tough year that he didn't get

the Oscar nomination. It's also, he's already been cast as Spider-Man by the time this movie comes out. Is that true? Yes. He gets cast by the time this movie comes out. Is that true? Yes.

He gets cast in July. The movie comes out in September. I mean, Pascal cast him off of, you know, having seen the finished film, worked with him, but he's testing for it right after this movie

is basically finished in production. Yeah. So, like, this movie comes out and it's one of those things where everyone's pointing to it and going, like, and by the way, this guy has just gotten one of the most coveted roles in Hollywood. He's going to be a star.

He had that, like, emerging star heat around him. And then this scene is just, like, such a knockout. It is the, what's the line? The fuck you flip-flops. There's so many good ones. Sorry, my products are the cleaners along with my hoodie and my fuck you flip-flops, you pretentious douchebag. Yes. Says the Sean.

And look, Andrew Garfield, who has a tendency to cry or at least be on the verge of tears in performances, it is put to great effect here. Yep. Nope.

Like him having to deliver the Gatling gun. Such a keenly felt betrayal. Sorkin delivery. He doesn't have time to wallow in it. And he looks like. But he's just maintaining, just on the brink of complete emotional collapse. But he also looks like he's going to cry

during the entire deposition. Yes. You know, anytime you're cutting back to him. He genuinely hates this. Like, Zuckerberg's sort of like, this is annoying. Right. Right.

I should be back making Facebook. And Eduardo, it feels like, is like, how did we fucking get to this point where we're on opposite sides of this table? I gave you. He makes Sean Parker flinch, though. That moment. I know, it's so good.

It's so good. He seems, like like actually genuinely intimidating and he really scares. He really scares. Garfield has a moment where he like relishes it before he even says, you know what I like about you, Sean? It's staying next to you.

It makes me feel tall. There's a moment where he like does the fist and then he sort of like licks his lips and is kind of like, oh, that worked. You know? Yeah. Movie ends. Sean Parker gets busted with coke, sure.

I'm trying to think of any other final elements. Here's a phenomenon in this movie. I don't know if we've ever mentioned... I don't know if it's ever come up in reference to another film. But that scene has that feeling where... And maybe it's

at this point because we're so conditioned to like so many of these types of stories have now got drawn out into eight hour miniseries. Very true. But it doesn't feel like that scene is like,

oh, and by the way, this movie is going to be done in less than 10 minutes. Sure, you might, there might be like an hour left of this movie. You're building up such a head of steam.

There's something about the fact that this movie like gets out at its peak. You know, it's set up of steam. There's something about the fact that this movie gets out at its peak. You know? It's set up these threads. It's able just to tie back in the two depositions and get out. This is so

close to the ending rather than having 20 minutes of unsatisfying sort of like bow tie. Then this happened, then this happened, then this happened. Doesn't matter. And of course, crucial decision for this movie given that there was so much more to happen anyway but that's the end of the main emotional crux of the story they're telling um rashida jones uh swoops in to say like yeah you know this is all pro forma you are going to settle with these people it won't matter

to you in terms of money you are going to you know be very successful and then you know the big sorkin-y line of like you're not an asshole you're just trying so hard to be the mirroring the eric albright like it's because you're an asshole right which i think is sorkin trying to retain the audience's sympathy for this character to reassure right he is in fact a nice guy. And then, yes, the way Fincher... There's a lot of interesting talk in all the David Pryor documentary shit about the Fincher 100-200 takes stuff, right? Which we talked about a lot in the Fight Club.

David has pushed his microphone fully away from his face. No, I was looking at some quotes. I'm looking at it because this is such a quotable movie that I just want to make sure we mention every quote that we have already. A lot of these young actors talking about what it's like to work on

this many takes, right? It said the deposition scenes were the ones that were nightmares because you're just in that box for two weeks. There's so much dialogue to get through. You're going to do so box for like two weeks. There's so much dialogue to get through. You're going to do so many takes.

72 days. Seems like that. The amount of fucking coverage you have to do for how many different people are sitting at different sides of the table from every angle or whatever. It's like it's like two consecutive weeks of just going around that table. It does make you feel like you're going insane. Probably in the way that like psychologically you feel on like hour six of a deposition, except you're on day 10 of it. But all the actors kept on saying there's something kind of nice about it, and especially Fincher being able to work digital at this point in his career, where the hundred takes thing doesn't feel like it's excruciating and like he's beating you into the ground. It almost feels freeing where it's just like you're just doing an extended rehearsal

and you're filming all of it. And Eisenberg, who's like, I'm a very self-critical actor. I'm very neurotic. I'm constantly questioning myself. I go home at night. I think I should have done it better. There's something nice about being with a director where I know he's not going to move on

until he has it. I feel like it takes a lot of the pressure off of me. And it takes the pressure off of any one individual take to have to be the thing, which I really like. And Fincher has talked about the moment he cites as like, this is the reason why I do 100 takes, is, I'm paraphrasing here,

but he said this thing of like, actors, they prep the thing the night before, they do it a bunch in the mirror, they come and they go, that's gonna fucking kill. I'm gonna nail it. That's my big move. And you get in there and it's sort of hermetic, right? And it's two people who prep different things that isn't working and the circumstances are different, all of that. And there's a certain

degree which you need to like beat things out of their system to which it becomes a routine. You've said the word so many times that you're not even thinking about what you're saying. It's just like deep in your bones. And that's when these little things come out that you couldn't get otherwise these tiny things i'm like looking for it's sort of much like we talked about with kubrick where it's like he's not doing 100 takes looking for them to achieve a thing he's waiting for he's looking for them to do a thing that surprises him and there's the moment in the opening erica scene where she goes like mark Mark, listen. And she keeps talking and he leans in and he goes, Erica. Like vindictively, he says her name back to him. Yeah.

And Fincher's like, that's like the kind of fucking moment I'm looking for, which he only does on one take. It's such a weird, bizarre thing that I only get if I'm filming it that many times and I'm like cross-shooting it and whatever, right? Sure. And so there's a lot of like, yeah, watching him direct people,

them talking about how much they appreciate being able to go through it. When he's directing Eisenberg in this final moment of refreshing the page over and over again, which I believe it seems like was the last thing Eisenberg

shot in the entire movie. Kind of cool. Was his total wrap. In the documentary, you do see pretty much everyone getting like wrapped out, right? You know, like,

and that's a picture wrap on, blah. Yeah. Although they just took, the last day of filming was like three insert shots and Fincher walked up to Sorkin and said,

I'm going to do the first two. I'm going to get in the car. You direct the third one. Which is cool. And he was like, that was him trying to help me, which maybe we need

to hold him accountable for. Yeah, maybe Fincher's canceling. Maybe don't give him that much confidence as a director. But he was like, you see him over Eisenberg's shoulder kind of doing the similar bullet

points of like, here are the things, remember, that's factoring into this as you're refreshing and this and that and whatever. And he's like, here's what I want. Give me a take, all that in your head. Give me like nothing. Give me nothing. I don't want you to play any intent on this. He's like, I want you to play this in a way where we

can read whatever we want on your face here but there is something to the way he constantly and a lot of it's the score as well but also the way he shoots Eisenberg who has like very odd angular features he's almost always lighting him in this way

where like his eyes are lost in shadow under his brow. You know? And he's physically playing the role like he's like Grima Wormtongue or something. You know, he's like, it always feels like he's almost like recoiling away from the camera at odd angles. away from the camera at odd angles and there's something about that refreshing and the way it actually plays out that stops it from being a cute ending especially in the wake of the rashida jones line that maybe aims to exonerate the character or at least you know realign our sympathies with him i think it i, I don't know if it's real. I think it's just, we can talk about the lines.

But I think this ending does make him feel so thoroughly pathetic. It's pathetic. And you're like, it all just still comes back down to this, like, one fucking feeling in this guy that's broken. Yes. I don't think Sorkin is like, this is a good guy. I think Sorkin is like, a lot of this isn't out of malice. It's out of an inability to connect with people.

I don't think that Sorkin thinks that he's a good guy. It's why I'm interested in him saying is the audience still rooting for him? Because I think he's still worried about audiences are going to bail out on this movie if they don't like this guy. And Fincher recognizes that they're telling a much larger story. Right. And that it doesn't matter

whether anyone likes this guy or rooting for him. Right. This is sociological at this point. It's not about audience sympathy for one person in the personal journey. You know? It's emblematic of a much larger thing. Which is why it's important that like this final moment is just such an empty husk thing. Of just like all of this for nothing.

You know, the final, you have these sort of inner titles over him refreshing and refreshing and refreshing, catching up on a lot of the settlement deals. He's the youngest billionaire in the world.

Everyone got, yeah, yeah, yeah. and then cut to black. To what end? He still just hates the fact that she won't acknowledge him. Made a badass website, though. Yeah, and it made everything better.

You can find out if someone's in a relationship or it's complicated, for example. Huge. You know, they had their favorite, favorite quotes.

Flip some dank Pepe memes. All right. Let me see if there are any like funny lines that we haven't thought about. I mean, there's six, five, I'm two, I'm six,

five, two 20. And there's two of me. If you were in the ventures of Facebook, we would have, you would have invented Facebook. I think we did a good job in realizing. I do like the

best podcast episode of all time. I don't even know who the speaker was. It was Bill Gates. Shit, that makes sense. Very good. Every little part in this is so good. Yes. Every two-line performance is so good. And some of them are people where you're like, oh, and then

he went on to become Caleb Landry Jones. Yeah, right, right, right. But for as many of them, I'm like, that guy nails his part so fucking hard in a Fincher movie. Where's he now? Did we say drop the vote? Just Facebook? We did the jokes about that.

I fucked at the beginning of the miniseries. It was funny. Everyone liked it. You know, wait. Let's see. Just stroke your beard and go through every, it's a,

David, it's a lot of quotes. It's a very long, I went through it last night because at one point I thought I was going to type out a longer pages, long intro.

I was going to go full, let me be frank and do more extensive word replacement. It would have been awful. You and I arguing over Open your president's self-scarf.

Have you ever seen me wear a scarf it'll be your first that was really funny I guess no that's the only thing we didn't talk about is this like

the humbling of Sean Parker him getting busted at the party where it's just like the second cops show up it's so pathetic that this guy is here with the interns

aside from it being creepy yeah well that's why where you're just like this guy still for how much interns. Aside from it being creepy. Yeah. Well, that's why. Where you're just like, this guy still, for how much Mark looks at him, is like, he has it figured out. He fucking dates Victoria's Secret models. He still wants to impress the exact kinds of people who would have dismissed him in high school and college. Of course, the real Sean Parker famously had a wedding that cost $10 million and was themed after Lord of the Rings. I'm sorry, President Summers, but what you just said makes no sense to me at all.

I'm devastated by that. That's so funny. He's got this, like... I was the U.S. Treasury Secretary. I'm in some position to make that up. He's got this, like, almost British lilt to his voice, which is very... I don't know if it's just time in the trenches with Gary. I'm devastated by that.

Yeah. It's just... I'm saying we should move off of the quotes page. No, we're done. We're done. Good. Okay. Yeah. We really did hit everything.

That's a good job by us. Shot for 72 days. Just going to clear up if anything else in the dossier. They didn't... Mostly, we're not allowed to shoot on Harvard campus. Harvard didn't want them to. So, they mostly used Johns Hopkins. But, of course, the shot through Cambridge. Harvard doesn't own them to. So they mostly used John Hopkins, John's Hopkins. But of course,

the shot through Cambridge, you know, Harvard doesn't own most of that property. He's jogging through. So they could do that. They built a battery-packed light cart that they would like follow around with him to like light the scenes,

like, you know, which is cool. They also, there's that shot when he's leaving the bar and you sort of like pan across downtown boston with a bunch of the harvard buildings it's where the social network title comes up for the first time and that shot is entirely constructed of like super high def uh uh images taken like piece by piece because they he he was like, Harvard was antagonistic

to us. Right. Tried to block us in every way. Right. And so they ended up shooting around as much as they could,

blowing sound stages, going to other places, whatever. But like that shot's basically constructed of like 15 shots that they visually all tiled together

and had to be lit individually, not by the cart. I don't know if they used this for that, for some of these other sequences as well, but this is just Jordan Cronenweth

was talking about this. For that, they had a mime who had a backpack with all the lights on it to stay right outside of the frame. Yes, they had a mime. Yes, they did have a mime. And he was like, why a mime?

And he was like, because cops are going to be trying to shut us down and Harvard will have them on warning. If it's a truck, if it's a crew guy, they'll stop without any hesitation. If it's a mime, they're going to be so confused about what's going on. And it will basically have at least two minutes of them trying to negotiate

with a mime and being like, do we have to let them finish their routine before they actually shut it down? There's also something kind of fancy about miming. Yeah. That it fits a little bit like on campus. But Cronenworth, the DP was basically saying like, it's great that on like a $40 million studio movie, there's something still kind of like student film guerrilla punk rock and Fincher wanting to like psychologically break

down how to get the movie made, not just assuming all the resources in the world. I know also when he signed on to do this movie, I think Pascal was like, we have this budget for $20 million. And Fincher was like, I need 40. And they were like, this is a high school movie.

This is a college movie that mostly takes place in rooms. We have no big stars. Why does it need to cost $40 million? And he was like, look, I know I have this reputation for going over budget, being exacting all this sort of shit,

but like I don't waste a penny. I read the script. I know exactly how much it's going to cost me to make it right. I know the time I need to do everything. There's not a piece of equipment I ever rent that I don't use on the day. I don't leave things on the truck just in case.

Like this is the amount of money to do this correctly and you watch a lot of this David Pryor shit and I'm just like no one fucking gets the bandwidth to make movies this way anymore on any level where you watch the amount of rehearsals he does of like Brenda's song fucking lighting the fire and like the fucking

camera test and the wardrobe test and all this shit where it's just like this is a movie for how much Fincher said my style in this was trying to have no style. There's no lighting setup that took more than 15 minutes. I'm trying to be an obtrusive

because it's mostly the dialogue and the performance is carrying it. He had time to just finesse everything to the point of being exactly correct. Trent Reznor. Yeah. Fincher knew him through doing a Night at Jail's music video, obviously.

Working with him on Seven. Bringing him on board is maybe the most influential thing in the movie business that he did. Yeah. Basically, the most iconic score of the decade. And then so copied. Yes. And then, of course, their own career is amazing. Yeah.

And it is diverse and diffuse. When I interviewed them, when I interviewed everyone who worked on Mank, they were the And it is diverse and diffuse. When I interviewed them, when I interviewed everyone who worked on Mank, they were the people I was obviously the most terrified to talk to. And Trent Reznor is really soft-spoken and quiet and kind of tough to get an answer out of. And Atticus Ross is the most lovely,

garrulous British guy ever who's just like, oh, yeah, you know, we had some trombones on this one. You know, like the opposite of him. Sure. So they must have some weird, you know creative chemistry that's beautiful box office game box office game this film was a hit yeah gross 97 million just short 100 it's kind of a shame they couldn't push it to 100 uh worldwide 225 but against a budget of 40 so it did very well a

movie that will play forever. 100%. One of the most rewatchable films of modern history. It opened at number one on October 1st, 2010. $22 million opening weekend. September release, but it's first week of October.

First week of October, and it's number two. What do you hear on the wind? Hoot! Hoot! It's not the Owls of Gahool. Gahool! Flapping in on its second weekend Legend of the Guardians

The Owls of Gahool At what? Well in its second weekend they've made 10 To add to their total of 30 But they are holding fast at number 2 Because number 1 Has dropped to number 3 A much maligned sequel Long awaited sequel A legacy sequel of sorts They are holding fast at number two because number one has dropped to number three.

A much-maligned sequel, long-awaited sequel, a legacy sequel of sorts, to an Oscar-winning 80s drama. Oh, it's Wall Street Money Never Sleeps. No money! You never sleep! Not on Wall Street!

Oliver Stone's Wall Street 2. A movie as uninteresting as its title is incredible. Terrible movie. Has also made about $35 million. Bit of a disappointment, that film. Although, given how bad it was, it actually did fine. You're like, given what a piece of shit this is, should be happy you made a dollar. When this came out, there was some stat that like,

Shia LaBeouf had had seven consecutive number one openers or something like that. Right. Yes. And Shia LaBeouf had had seven consecutive number one openers or something like that. Right. Yes. Yes. And Shia LaBeouf had this just brutal quote where he was just like, yeah, but look at the movies I was attached to.

I don't give myself credit to that. Frankie Muniz could have opened all these movies to number one. Poor Frankie. He was like, three Transformers, Indiana Jones. All right. Wall Street.

They would have made the same money with Frankie Muniz. I'm realizing we need to order food. Okay. But okay. Number three at the box office. But you're right. Hor same money with Frankie Muniz. I'm realizing we need to order food. Okay. But okay, number three at the box office, but you're right. Horrible burn on Frankie Muniz. Yeah. Number four at the box office is a great, you know, again, sort of grown-up drama.

It's a thriller. Okay. Made sort of similar to the social network. It's opening or it's a September release? It's a September release. Okay. But did similar to, Network. It's a September release. It's a September release. Okay. But did similar to, you know, made like a 90s domestic. It's an R-rated film, though.

It's an R-rated September 2010. What studio released the picture? The Warner Brothers. The Warner Brothers film. It's not The Town. It is The Town. Ben Affleck's The Town. A great film.

Duh, Town. Yes. Number five, a rom comedy. the town it is the town Ben Affleck's the town a great film duh town yes um number five a rom comedy for teenagers a rom comedy comedy for teenagers in 2010 the good people Sony pictures was it screen gems or was it Sony

it's a mainline was it Sony? Is it EZA? It's mainline Sony. It's EZA! Right. With Emma Stone. Another example of Pascal nurturing a superstar. Given her vehicle. Who knows?

She might win her second Oscar this year. We don't know. It could happen. Some other films. You Again? Oh, yes. You Again? I kind of like You Again.

Really? I've never seen it. That's the Kristen Bell one, right? With Betty White, I believe. Yeah. Jamie Lee Curtis. They're all tearing up pictures. Yeah. Who's the other young woman in that? Annabelle? Annabelle Yesman.

Annabelle Yesman. Can someone just take a little paper clip and reboot? I swear to God, something Ielle Yesman. Okay. Can someone just take a little paperclip and reboot Griffin? I swear to God, something I said in there was correct. I think you're right. She went through a couple names. Number seven opening this week, a movie called Case 39. I feel like that's one of those much

delayed movies. I think that's a Renee Zellweger, Bradley Cooper It was one of those things that was shot in 2006. Yes. Came out four years later. Yeah. Opening to $5 million.

You've also got Let Me In. Matt Reeves' Let Me In, a huge bomb. Yeah. Opening at number eight. A movie I contend is very good. It's a good movie. Obviously not as good as the original. It's not.

One of the better American remakes of a perfect movie that never needed to be remade. Definitely needed a TV show. Number nine. Well, that's where they never needed to be remade. Right. Definitely needed a TV show. Number nine. Well, that's where they finally cracked it. Devil. Oh, M. Night Shyamalan presents Elevator Devil. Yeah, they often say the devil's in the details. I find the devil's in the elevator.

Number 10. He's in the elevator. I missed that one. What if someone in the elevator is the devil? Number 10, an animated film I have never heard of called Alpha and Omega. Oh, yeah. David, it's a Lionsgate release. It's sort of Balto runoff.

They have made like seven direct-to-video. Alpha and Omega is the new Land Before Time. Ben wants to do something. Oh, I just wanted to guess. Was the tagline going down? Devil? Are we going to end the episode on that? I think the tagline for that one was from

m night shamalan uh i will of course he produced it it was based on his story we've talked about on his miniseries people laughing yes and when his name would come up in the trailer people would laugh uh no here is the tagline for devil it's a a pretty ordinary tagline. Going down with you. Well, there were actually two taglines. The first one, bad things happen for a reason. Weird tagline. Bad things happen

to good elevators. The second tagline, which I think was more trying to hit the elevator thing, was five strangers trapped. One of them is not what they seem. It's like, okay, Jesus. Okay, we get it.

They're in an elevator. Those are both terrible. Going down was way better. Here'd be my tagline. Here'd be my tagline. Going down. And then you go'd be my tagline. Here'd be my tagline. Going down. And then you go down, like to halfway down the poster.

New line. All the way down. And then further down the poster. A little further. This has made you look. I mean, down to hell. That's where the elevator is going. It's going down to hell.

And then it says, but this movie's good though. You should check it out. From the Twisted Mind event. Around $11. So. All right. going down to hell. And then it says, but this movie's good though. You should check it out. From the Twisted Mind event I shot one. Around $11. So. All right.

I have to pee so badly, Griffin. So just take us out unless there's anything you want to say about the social network because I don't think we talked about it much on this episode.

It wins the Oscar for score and for screenplay and maybe editing. I think it had three wins. Is that right? But yeah, I feel like it's thought of as one of the sort of great modern I remember the score win was almost surprising. You were kind of like, oh, good for them. Like, this

is a different kind of score. Yes. Felt a little more modern than the score. The screenplay win felt fairly sewn up. That felt done. Because it's such a written movie. The whole campaign was, can you believe that Aaron Sorkin doesn't have an Oscar it felt inevitable a little bit of that yeah but I feel

like this one is kind of our modern yeah editing is the other one which is funny because then the Angus Baxter Kirk Baxter sorry and Angus also win for Dragon Tattoo the year later they won back to back editing Oscars I think this is in that

like Goodfellas dances with Wolves pantheon of just being like, okay, we enjoyed the King's speech, but come the fuck on. And like, with every year,

the absurdity like only grows. Yes. Yes. Yeah, because as much as Eisenberg lost to Colin Firth, which, you know, Firth's performance

is very strong. Like, and he had given a great performance the year before. Like, there's a lot of love for him. But in retrospect, you know, Firth's performance is very strong. And he had given a great performance the year before. There's a lot of love for him. But in retrospect, you're like, what the fuck happened here? You know? It's just... Eisenberg would have been the youngest Best Actor winner

ever. He would have beaten out that Goodbye Girl? Yeah. R.D.? Or is it Brody? Brody's like 29 and Eisenberg was 26. You're correct that he would have been the youngest. I just can't remember it Brody? Brody's like 29 and Eisenberg was 26. I mean, I think you're correct that he would have been the youngest.

I just can't remember if Brody took the prize from Dreyfuss. Yes, he did. It's just because it's one of those things where you're like, Richard Dreyfuss was 30

when he made The Goodbye Girl. You're like, I watched The Goodbye Girl. The man is 65. I don't know what you're talking about. Now. Lex G will sometimes use the term

aging like Dreyfuss, which it's really hard. But yeah, obviously this film was highly acclaimed. And the fact that it did so well just set Fincher up for the next few years. Yeah. And it's good. I think it's good. I think it's really good.

I think it's a pretty terrific picture. I'm on the record. Okay. We need to end this, David, as to pee. I'm on the record. Okay. We need to end this, David, and we have to record another episode. We do.

Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media. I think, did we shut down our Facebook page?

I think we did, right? Or is it still there just to hold the space? It's, I think, inactive. I think it's inactive. I don't know. Let me look. Yeah, let's look into it. Thank you for? It's, I think, inactive. I think it's inactive. I don't know. Let me look.

Yeah, let's look into it. Thank you for our social media, Facebook included or excluded, and helping to produce the show. Thank you to AJ McKeon and Alex Barron for our editing, JJ Burks for our research,

Lane Montgomery and the Great American Novel for our theme song. Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon Blank Check special features where we do commentaries

on film series. Right now we're doing the Pierce Brosnan Bond movies. And also every 10 days, if you want to sign up for a free membership, we unlock an episode from three years ago, including the Alien series, which times into our Alien 3 episode

recently. You can listen to all of those. How's your Facebook looking, Ben? Well, it's not allowing me to look at the page. It's saying I must log in. So I have a feeling that we... It's not public anymore. It is, in fact, deactivated.

I'll try logging in on my Sniffin' Pooman account that, once again, has zero friends. Do not friend request me. It only exists to sync. I think it's funny, though. I want people to hear it. Okay. It exists to sync into Disney Emoji Blitz. I'm going to reject every request you send.

You're going to get a bunch of requests anyway. You know it. Guess what? I never fucking log in. I don't care. You're not getting in. I have no friends and I never will. Tune in next week for the girl with the dragon tattoo. She's got a big ass tattoo, Ben. I know. She has

incredible looks in the movie. Marie just walked in. Hello. Hi. I was hoping in my time out where when Griffin thanked you, you would have walked in the door. It almost worked out.

I'm also now I'm like, does David leave the bathroom before I finish the episode? Can we be playing the Trent Reznor music over this, the outro? So it sounds really kind of like sad and haunted. Or is that going to get us into copyright claims? We can recreate it because it's so sparse anyway. Okay.

So yeah. Yeah. Can we do like the blank check theme in the like Trent Reznor style? Absolutely. Okay, that's what we're doing. David's out of the bathroom. We're still going. We're still going. Griffin has stretched it out because Marie came in and you know, I mean, we had to make sure that the episode was, you know, well, it is already three hours.

It's three hours? Yeah, that's right. Three hours isn't cool. You know what's cool? What? Four hours. Perfect. Mr. Newman, do I have your full attention?

No. Do you think I deserve it? What? Do you think I deserve your full attention? No. Do you think I deserve it? What? Do you think I deserve your full attention? I had to swear an oath before we began this deposition. I don't want to perjure myself, so I have a legal obligation to say no. Okay, no. You don't think I deserve your attention.

I think if your clients want to sit on my shoulders and call themselves tall, they have the right to give it a try. But there's no requirement that I enjoy sitting here listening to people lie. You have part of my attention. You have the right to give it a try. There's no requirement that I enjoy sitting here listening to people lie. You have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount. The rest of my attention is back at the offices of Blank Check Productions where my co-hosts and I are doing things. Fuck, let me

take that part again. No, you said doing things. No, that's not what I want to do. I'm just going to take that part again. Or do you want to do the whole thing from the beginning? No, I was nailing it. Let's do it again from the beginning for rhythm. No. Yes. What? Do it I was nailing it. Let's do it again from the beginning for rhythm. No. Yes.

What? Do it, David. Do it, David. Do it.