Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Terminator with Rachel Sanders

Episode Date: September 25, 2016

Rachel Sanders (Buzzfeed) joins Griffin and David to discuss James Cameron’s 1984 game changing action sci-fi, The Terminator. But why did this movie become a model for major studios for the next 30+ years? How has the special effects aged? What happened to Pugsley the iguana and did he continue to work in Hollywood? Together they examine the outstanding performances of Hamilton, Schwarzenegger and Biehn, the weird sex scene, Cameron’s many marriages and O.J. Simpson rumored as a potential Terminator.

What day is it? The date! The 12th! May! Thursday! Whatth. May. Thursday. What podcast? 1984. Oh, cool.

Cool, cool. Hey, everybody. My name's Griffin Newman. That was awful. You want to try the other one? No, no, no, no. It's good. I don't want to try the other one.

I'm going to try the other one. Oh, no. No. No. What's the other one? I'm pulling it up. Why don't you start? The hardest thing is deciding what I should tell you and what not to.

No, no, that's terrible. I hate that part. But I guess I've got a while yet before you're old enough to even understand the tapes. They're more for me at this point, just so I can get it straight. Should I tell you about your father? Boy, that's a tough one. Will it affect your decision to send him here, knowing that he's your father? No. You know what's on call? You can never be. God, a person

could go crazy thinking about all this. I suppose I will tell you. I owe him that. You can never be. God, a person could go crazy thinking about all this. I suppose I will tell you. I owe him that. Maybe it'll be enough if you know that in the few hours we had together. We loved a podcast, Swarth. No, we can't do that. We did it. It's terrible.

It's done. I talked all over it. That's all part of the podcast. Great. Hi. Hi. My name is Griffin. My name's David Sims.

This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. Colon, Podinator, colon, Judgment Cats. Yes, that's the awful title of our new miniseries. Perfect title. Yes. People already asking why there isn't a two in the title. It's because we didn't want people to think there was a first miniseries they had to listen to. It's like how there was the play The Madness of King George III,

but the movie was called The Madness of King George because studios were afraid they would think it was a sequel to a movie someone hadn't seen. We're trying to right the wrongs of Leonard Part 6. Yeah, exactly. The second wrong. The first wrong was hiring Bill Cosby. Hi, everybody. This is awful.

Let's start over. I'll be podcasting. Hey everybody, my name's Griffin. I'm David. Welcome to Blank Check with Griffin, David, colon, podinator, colon, judgment cast. This is a podcast where we go through filmographies. Yeah. Important filmmakers who experienced big success early on are given a series of blank checks

to make their wildest dreams come true cinematically. And sometimes the check's clear and sometimes they bounce. Oh, there's the air. There it is. There's the air. There we feel it. It's hot in here, guys. Now this podcast is going to be great.

That was the only thing holding us back. Oh, it is hot today. Up until now. We've gotten to the second film in our mini-series on James Cameron. That film is called, let me double check the title here, The Terminator. Okay, yeah. It's called The Terminator. check the title here. Yeah. The Terminator. Okay, yeah. It's called The Terminator. Right.

19. Little scene 84 joints. 84. His follow-up to Piranha 2, The Spawning. Yes. Did you know that? The Terminator. I did not know that.

I'm going to say something kind of crazy from the get-go. Yeah. I think this one's better than Piranha 2, The Spawning. I know. I know. I think he actually. That's a bold claim. It's just like an improvement.

He took a leap. He took a little leap. We have a guest. We have a guest. I love having the know. I think he actually. That's a bold claim. It's just like an improvement. He took a leap. He took a little leap. We have a guest. We have a guest. I love having the guest talk before we introduce the guest. It's always, it's tantalizing.

You know what I mean? It's a little appetizing. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Who could it be? Right. It's like when there's the menu and you see the picture

of the food before you order the food. I only go to places with pictures on the menu. Yeah, me too. For that reason. And I only listen to podcasts where the guest talks

before they're introduced. Uh-huh. Great. Great. Our guest only listen to podcasts where the guest talks before they're introduced. Uh-huh. Great. Our guest is Rachel Sanders. Oh, hey, Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Hi, guys. Rachel Sanders of BuzzFeed.

Did you just get a new title? I want to give you your proper title. It's the same title. I'm a senior editor. Senior editor of BuzzFeed. I'm on the culture team now. Dot com. Now, does that mean-

And longtime friend of David Sims. Yeah, that's true. Well, I mean, you should have led with that. Yep. Now, does that mean... And longtime friend of David Sims. Yeah, that's true. Well, you should have led with that. Yep.

Does being a senior editor mean that you get to pay senior prices at movies? Of course it does. I try. Okay. I see what I can get away with. Do you know what they call seniors in Britain? What? Old age pensioners.

Really? What if... Do they all get a pension? I guess that's Europe for you. Yeah, OAP. Not anymore. Right, right. It's like Social Security. They call them OAPs? No, they call them OAPs. Oh, that's Europe for you. Yeah, OAP. Not anymore. It's like Social Security.

They call them OAPs? No. They call them OAPs. Oh, that's a misapprehension. And it always says that on the movie pricing. It's like, you know, adult, child, OAP. I like that. Yeah, old age pensioner. Alright. We good? Yeah. Alright, let's get out of here. Good podcast. It's hot today.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, no, no. The Terminator. This is a tough one. This is one of those ones we're going to talk around for a while because it's like kind of too big a deal to, you know, sort of like our Matrix episode. I'm sort of ready to get into it, but it is, you watch this movie, it is like the prototype for every studio film for the next 30 years. Sure. Yeah. You know?

I could start, if I may be so rude, by saying that I just saw Aliens for the first time. Oh, which we're going to cover next week. And I know that he made that, what, just like a few years after? That was his next movie. 86?

86. And then I watched this, which I had never seen before, and I was like, oh, it's the same movie. They're very similar. So why did you see Aliens? It was outside in Red Hook.

It was beautiful. Beautiful night. I can't wait to talk about Aliens. That's next in Red Hook. It was beautiful. Beautiful night. I can't wait to talk about Aliens. That's next week. Sorry. No, no, no. It's very exciting. So, James Cameron.

Yeah. I've seen this movie a thousand times. Now, Griffin, you confessed to me that you had actually not seen this movie except one time. Yeah. Except for one time. Okay. So I have seen Terminator 2, Judgment Day a thousand times. A billion times. It's one of my absolute favorite movies. I mean, it was the movie for one time. Okay, so I have seen Terminator 2 Judgment Day a thousand times. A billion times.

It's one of my absolute favorite movies. I mean, it was the movie for us kids. Right, okay. I had a very protective mother, which I think has been referenced before in this show because it... And it's also referenced in your personality. Yep. Yep. Formed a lot of my media habits because, like, for the first ten years of my life, I was, like, not allowed to watch...

Scary things? Most things. Okay okay most things she infamously uh infamously wouldn't let me watch rugrats because she thought it was too cynical it is pretty cynical that's fair in what way is rugrats cynical well so for my 10th birthday i don't even understand i go on for my 10th birthday i was like mom my birthday, can I watch one episode of Rugrats? Because I knew if she watched it with me, she'd be like, oh, this is a show about fucking babies.

It's just babies talking. I think she thought Rugrats and like Ren and Stimpy, because Ren and Stimpy was getting so much like attention at the time. I didn't even call Ren and Stimpy cynical. It was weird. All right. The two things she wouldn't let me watch, she detested violence and cynicism. Maybe sarcastic.

Maybe she said it was too sarcastic. So porn was fine. Porn was fine. Because porn is alarmingly sincere. Yeah. If nothing else, it's very sincere work. Yeah. But maybe sarcastic was the word she used instead.

She said violent or too sarcastic. The Simpsons, was that a red flag for her? Yeah, 100%. That was my show. That was all I watched when I was a kid, and I think it's because my parents had never seen an episode. So they were just like, oh, she's watching a cartoon. Yeah, looks fun.

Well, so for the first 10 years of my life, I almost exclusively watched... My main thing was... You watched kid stuff, real kid stuff. Well, The Muppet Show? Sure, very sincere. Right, but it's also pretty... It has moments of cynicism.

It's pretty cynical, I think. The Muppet Show? It's arch. It's knowing. It's wry. I don't know if I'd call it cynical. But also, the main thing I watched- You're still trying to put on a show.

Yeah. I watched a lot of old Hanna-Barbera shit. I watched a lot of old 60s, 70s sitcoms. Yeah, right, right. And then the main thing I watched was Looney Tunes, which is the most violent, cynical thing in the world. It's just Bugs Bunny fucking razzing on people. Yeah, tricking people and defying authority. Yeah, and punching them in the world. It's just Bugs Bunny fucking razzing on people. Tricking people and defying authority. But then when I was 10

and I had some sort of autonomy, the floodgates opened. And I think a lot of my personality is defined by the fact I was always an obsessive kid, but now suddenly it was these things like The Simpsons I'd never been able to watch before. You could watch it all. I went insane about The Simpsons. And another thing was I'm going to get into action movies.

Sure. Like I wasn't allowed to watch superhero shit. We've been talking about them in the playground, us kids. Right. Action movies. Well, that's why I was here. They were in. And it's like, you know.

It was the hot genre. Yeah. We weren't into like Bergman movies yet. You know, we didn't watch foreign movies. We watched action movies. And I kind of hung out with girls more because I could watch the shows that girls could watch. But I couldn't like boys. They'd be like, fuck Power Rangers. I saw Terminator 2. And I'd be like, I'm not allowed to watch any of this. So I would go like, girls could watch but I couldn't like boys they'd be like fucking Power Rangers

I saw Terminator 2 and I'd be like I'm not allowed to watch any of this so I would go like oh yeah I don't like that stuff like I'd have to play it

like it was my choice not to watch it sure right well you know as kids we create narratives around our lives right yeah and then I just like

talk about Care Bears and stuff so like when I was like 10 or 11 I remember someone gave my dad a copy of Terminator 2 on DVD

so we're not even riving at you watching the Terminator. Wow. No, this is the point. This is the story. Right. So you started with Terminator 2, but it seems like everyone else in the world did too. I didn't. Oh, I'm sorry.

Because I was going to say most people did. Maybe at least most people are. Yes. Right. My dad got a DVD copy of the Terminator. We're all 100 years old. Yes, for Christmas. It was like early days of DVD and that was like a two disc set.

It was like a big fancy deal. So people were like trying to send each other DVDs to be like Look at me I know what DVDs are good The hot DVDs on the market So we got this Terminator 2 DVD And I was like this looks so fucking cool Like I'd read through the booklet and I'd be like mom can I watch this please I mean you know

It's called the Terminator Sick day I had a sick day and I was like can I please watch Terminator And she was like okay fine you're sick watch Terminator And I was like cool will you go across the street and rent the first Terminator. Right. Okay. And so no. Sick day. I had a sick day and I was like, can I please watch Terminator? And she was like, okay, fine. You're sick. Watch Terminator. And I was like, cool. We go across the street and rent the first Terminator. So I did double feature. Okay. And this is the only time you saw Terminator 1? Yeah. Yeah. Now I've, I bought it on DVD shortly after because we had this copy of Terminator 2 that I would watch a million times. I bought Terminator 1 on DVD. I've seen parts of it on TV. I've seen scenes of it at times. I have not watched the full movie all the way through since that day when I was probably 11 or 12.

Alright. But I was surprised like how much of it is burned into my memory. Yeah. Like the images, the lines, the cultural thing. But even some of the little moments that don't get like memed as much. I just like kind of remembered the whole movie. Whereas Terminator 2 I remember because I watched it like

once a fucking week. Rachel. Yes. never seen this never i had never seen it had you seen terminator 2 no i have not seen a single film in the entire terminator franchise i thought you're about to say in the entire world i am a newborn for this franchise i wanted to start at the beginning yeah it felt right yeah honestly i thought it was great it's a good movie i want there's a lot of movies i watched especially ones from from the 80s, and I'm like, this is stupid trash. Sure. It doesn't stick with you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, what do you want to rag on? No one. I want to be nice. And I can't remember any good examples. Carrie, it's a fire. Under Siege 2. Under Siege 2 is a 90s movie, Ben.

But especially, I feel like as someone who was born after this movie was made, I would assume that I wouldn't relate to it, but I thought it was kind of fascinating. I think it's a very fascinating movie in the context of right now, as much as it is. Well, it's about machines. It's about machines. We've gotten to the point now where no one gives a shit about machines. Humans do things that are so much worse than any machine could ever do, but this was like

this beautiful, I feel like naive moment in time where they were like, it's the machines that will bring us down. Yeah. Like we know better now. It's cute.

It's cute. Yeah. Well, and I don't know, it's kind of, it's kind of an alarming movie. It's a, it's,

it's kind of a, it's a horror movie more than a sci-fi movie. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a slasher movie. It's like, right. It has all that. You Yeah, it's like a slasher movie. Right. It has all that.

It's like a woman being stalked around the street by two crazy people. Yeah. But one of them turns out to be, he's a nice guy. He's pretty crazy, but he's a nice guy. He's a bit of a cock, if you ask me. Reese? That's his name, right? Kyle Reese.

More like Cock Reese. He reminded me of Luke Skywalker. It's like, well, you're blonde. You're bland. You're narratively central. I don me of Luke Skywalker. It's like, well, you're blonde. You're bland. You're narratively central. I don't give a shit. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Can I just point out the thing that I find most alarming? What? Don't say cuck again. Cuck. That you have already referenced someone by name who has not yet been introduced on this podcast. Oh, Jesus Christ. I was going to tell.

All right, go ahead. Do the names. Go on. Go on. Go on. He produces the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. It's an important job. Yeah, yeah, yeah to tell... All right, go ahead. Do the names. Go on. Go on. Go on. He produces the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it. It's an important job.

Yay. The thing wouldn't get out there. Do the names. He's working the ones and zeros. I'm going to check my email. Producer Ben. Mm-hmm. Yep.

A.K.A. the Banducer. A.K.A. the Perdue-er Ben. What? The Perdue-er Ben? Perdue-er Ben. Uh-huh. A.K.A. the Haas. Yep.

A.K.A. the Poet Laureate. Yep. A.K.A. our finest film critic. A.K.A. White Hot Benny. A.K.A. the Tiebreaker. A.K.A. Birthday Benny. A.K.A. Mr Haas. Yep. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate. Yep. A.K.A. Our Finest Film Critic. A.K.A. White Hot Benny. A.K.A. The Tiebreaker. A.K.A. Birthday Benny. A.K.A. Mr. Haasitive. Thank you.

A.K.A. The Fuckmaster. He is not Professor Crispy. Nope. He has graduated. White Hot Benny. I said White Hot Benny. Okay. He's graduated to certain titles over the course of different miniseries.

Those titles include Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben Aichamalon, Ben Sate, and the hotly contested Benny Lane, which many people are demanding a recount for say Benny Lane. The poll was up, guys. The poll was up. You can pick Benny Lane over. I like Save Anything. I like Save Anything. I like Save Anything, too. I thought it was better.

I made my case for why I thought Benny Lane was a bad choice. It's too Beatles-y. It's not Cameron Crowe's. It's not Cameron Crows. It's not proprietary. Yeah. But anyway, we've had this debate. We'll have it again. But it's Ben Hosley, everyone.

It's Ben Hosley, everybody. Hey, guys. Man, The Terminator. Good movie. Really good. Me and Ben chatted about it for 40 minutes because Griffin took the wrong train and was late. You got here early. I did get here early.

Don't make it sound like I was 40 minutes late. I was 18 minutes late. The title sequence? Yeah. With the little cursor? Yeah. Old school computer graphics? Yeah, Ben likes old school computer graphics.

Who doesn't? Yeah. Well, here's the thing that's like, when you're talking about why it's tough to talk about this movie, okay? It's the same thing that The Matrix has. It's the same thing that The Matrix has. It's the same thing that The Phantom Menace has.

Last one was a joke. I picked up on that. No comedy points. Not just the influence it had on other things, where it's hard to look at the Rosetta Stone, because we've seen it

That's one reason it's so familiar. Right. It's like originating a lot of cliches and a lot of like. There's little pieces that I've seen be recycled through other movies my whole life that I didn't necessarily know were like from this. Exactly. But the other thing is that like every fucking element of this movie is iconic. Yeah.

The dialogue's iconic. The characters are iconic. But then also like the fucking font is iconic. The music's iconic. Before we talk about anything else, can we address the lizard? Yes. She has a pet lizard. She has a pet lizard. It was the 80s. What was its name?

It was like, I wrote it down because it was so nuts. I do not know the name of her pet lizard. First of all, she has a lizard. Oh, Pugsley. Yeah, Pugsley. Pugsley. Pugsley. Which is the name of the kid in the Adams family. Really? Yeah. I missed the reference. Is that an homage to Charles Addams? I don't know.

Is Sarah Connor a big Charles Addams fan? Pugsley. I hear Pugsley. Maybe it's just the Addams Family thing, but I think a roly-poly thing. Yeah, I think they're the old fat boy from the Addams Family. Right. Lizards are pretty lean. It just doesn't feel like a suited name.

I have a question for those of you who have seen all the Terminator movies. Is the lizard a motif? No. Does the lizard return? No. That's disappointing to me. So the thing about this movie that is interesting to me because there are so many other Terminator movies is this movie is so like 80s. And I don't mean it in like an OMG

I love the 80s. It's so random. No, but like the jeans, the hair. Especially the sunglasses he's wearing. The punk rock influence. jeans, the hair. You know, the hair, especially, you know, the sunglasses he's wearing, you know. The punk rock influence. Yeah, the punks in the beginning. The weird punks, tech noir. Tech noir, yes. And like the fact that

she has a lizard, you know, this is, people are like, I want a, you know, I'm not gonna get a cat or a dog, I'm gonna get a crazy pet. Well, the most 80s element of the entire movie to me is that one character's defined by the fact that she wears headphones. Yes, yes. Like it's a novel thing she like brings a walkman you know to have sex which is it's like wow what a what a crazy modern person i love movies where the plot relies on like outdated technology so it's like the phone book like the headphones right like all this stuff that just

doesn't exist anymore oh rachel you're speaking my language. You really are hitting Ben's right there with you. What's funny about that is, this is a movie about time travel, and of course other sequels have referenced this movie a lot, you know, and tie into it in weird ways. None of the other movies have the 80s vibe at all. It's like this weird relic that they have to

keep touching. Yes. But, you know, Judgment, Terminator 2, Podinator, colon, Judgment cast, Terminator 2 is like the least 90s movie. But all, you know, Judgment, Terminator 2, Podinator colon Judgment cast, Terminator 2 is like the least 90s movie. It's, I mean, the most 90s movie. But less 90s than this is 80s.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it is very 90s. No, I think the 90s were just less than the 80s were. I think that's true. The 90s were less in your face. And then the 2000s even less so when you get to Terminator 3,

Rise of the Machines. Which is like a really culture is in decline you know they have less to work with. Yeah I think you know when I was watching this as like an 11 year old I like this movie a lot right but then I was really wanting to watch Terminator 2. Like there was a part of me that was watching

this VHS so I could get to my fucking 2 disc Terminator 2. Terminator 2 is for teens. This movie is not so much for teens I was in the right age range. Terminator 2 has a teen hero. Yes. Okay. It's also, it's big. Yeah, no, of course. It's a big action movie. It's like crazy set pieces. This has no,

much less of that. And I was like really into special effects as a kid, so that's like the special effects movie, all that sort of stuff. But I also think like a couple years later I got into like a big 80s phase and I was really into fucking like 80s culture stuff. But I think as an 11 year old it was like a of a hang-up for me that it was like, this movie is so steeped in its time.

Yeah. Because there are other movies from the 80s that I had liked. Like, Ghostbusters is obviously a movie made in the 80s, but it feels less time-capsule-y. Yeah. Whereas this, from the hair, to the technology, to some of the lingo. I mean, I can't deny that Ghostbusters is less 80s even. I mean, the lasers alone. The lasers alone. The lasers. The lasers are incredible. I mean, the poster, for that Ghostbusters is less 80s even. I mean, the lasers alone. The lasers alone.

The lasers are incredible. I mean, the poster, for crying out loud, with the lasers. That's not something I hold against the movie present day. I just think as a weird 11-year-old, I was like, why are these people doing weird things? It was like, because they're living in a different time. So, I have seen this movie plenty of times. My friend, Brian, who, my mom was kind of like your mom.

I mean, she would let me watch cynical works of art, but like she was pretty, like I couldn't watch everything. And you were also the oldest, the first? I was the first, yes. And indeed with Joey my brother, a lot of that shit went out the window. Oh, my sister got a free pass. As is so classically. Yeah, I got the free pass.

Are you the youngest? God damn it. But my friend Brian, who was like kind of a friend whose parents were more permissive. He had like all the video games. He had, you know, we would go over there and order pizza. Like, you know, he was the good friend to hang out with. His parents had themselves edited Terminators 1 and 2 on VHS for their son. So I think they had like gotten the movie recorded it and they would like press stop

and like kind of edit out like the worst bits they take out the amazing sex scene they took out the sex scene and i remember when i first saw this movie in a hole and i was like whoa there's like a like the most 80s like meatloaf video sex scene of all time piano soundtrack the fact that they imply that like the way you have sex is like by clasping someone's hand really that final slow motion shot of them like oh my god it was amazing uh and especially because his uh the the rest of cameron's oeuvre at this point sex becomes a very disneyfied thing if it exists at all camera sex in camera movies is is objectively hilarious we're gonna talk right i mean do you think he's had sex he's been talk about it. Do you think he's had sex? He's been married five times.

I mean, one assumes he's had sex at least five times. I don't know. But I think... Maybe not. Maybe he's too busy. That could be the problem. But Cameron's also such a technician. I think when Cameron has sex, it's like drilling for oil. Do you know what I mean?

I think it's like there's a purpose. Sure. He gets it done. And like the sex in this movie has a very specific purpose. Yeah. You know, the leader of the free world needs to be conceived. It is plot mandated. Yeah, yeah.

It's not optional. They have to have sex one time. One time. In brackets, one time. That's the thing is, I think Cameron's probably really good at sex, but there's not- There's no way he's good at sex. I think he's good at sex because Cameron won't let himself do anything he's not great at. Well, that's fair.

He is. He's very much a control freak and a perfectionist. won't let himself do anything he's not great at. Well, that's fair. He's very much a control freak and a perfectionist. But I feel like control freak, if we want to talk should we turn this into a sex podcast right now? After the first 80 episodes movies, now we're just

me and Griffin giving sex advice. The two guys you want to hear sex advice from most, Davidson's and Griffin Newman. I can leave. No, no, you're in this now. Rachel, you're unfortunately Ben, come in here. Ben actually would do a good sex advice podcast. Ben would be, you're in this now. Rachel, you're unfortunate. Ben, come in here. All right. Ben actually would do a good sex advice podcast.

Ben would do a great sex advice podcast. Just control freak to me seems like the wrong vibe. Ben is in here now. Hey, Ben, what's your advice? Ben, what do you think about sex? I like the sex part. And Ben is leaving the studio. Here's my read on Cameron having sex, because I am down to talk about this for a little bit.

Not too long. Not too long, but I think this is a decent sidebar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I did formulate this entire theory while watching this movie. I was in the middle of my story. Oh, please, you tell yours. Oh, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry.

Just tell the sex thing quick, Jesus Christ. I think Cameron... Sorry, guys, he was late. I think Cameron is technically... Proficient. A very proficient, skilled lover. I think he sorry guys he was late I think Cameron is technically proficient a very proficient skilled lover I think he gets it done but there's no passion you're saying

I don't think there's any romance I don't think he's one for theatrics I mean he's a passionate guy in terms of his art like you know he has passion for it it's the romanticism that when

we're gonna talk a lot about him he's very primal his movies are very lean they're cut to the bone people make fun of his dialogue for being workmanlike, but it's like he gets the job done. I would agree with that. There's nothing in the movie that doesn't have to be there to tell the story. This movie doesn't have an ounce of fat, you might say.

Right. And Cameron's not going to light a candle. Except the lizard, honestly. Except the lizard. Right. And that one cute shot of the mannequin. But see, when he does shit like that, I feel like it's him being like, I guess a movie's supposed to have two things like this.

Do you know what I'm saying? Well, it's interesting because like I said before, the movie's a slasher movie. And I feel like, and he said this, like John Carpenter was like the hot director, Halloween, and these were like the hot small budget movies. So I think he would probably seen a lot of those and was like, my film's going to snap right into this formula, except the villain is going to be a robot. Like, you know, can have a metal skeleton.

That's going to be my weird twist. Can I confess something? Please. I had the idea that like Arnold would turn out to be the good guy. Well, you got to wait until Terminator 2. Right. But I had this vague idea, which I guess comes from the rest of the franchise. Yeah, it's just seared into the air.

Right. But then he's just so not like he's not he's not yeah and he's bad he's brilliant I mean we'll get to Arnie yeah not to jump the gun no no it's fine so I had seen this movie a bunch but in it's

edited form we would watch both movies in their edited form and this was the more edited there would just be a time jump or were there like bits of static in between was like a VHS. Yeah, it was a disaster. It would just sort of fuzz over for a second. But I mean, it was like the sex scene, the eye surgery,

the sort of weird, gory self-surgery scenes. Yeah. That's basically it. I mean, there's still lots of unbalanced. What about all the women getting shot for no reason? Yeah, definitely. Well, this is what I think it would be. They kept that in, huh? No, not the sort of porny,

not, you know, the slightly like murder of the first Sarah Connor, which is like really fucked up. It's bad, yeah. And not the murder of the, because also there's the sex scene. Also where Rick Rosovich

describes how he's going to have sex with the lady on the phone, with the girl, with the roommate. Yep, yep. With the roommate's name, Ginger. Headphones. Headphones, yeah. the phone, with the girl, with the roommate. What's the roommate's name? Ginger. Headphones.

Headphones, yeah. I love that. That's probably what Cameron's like. The thing where he is like reciting and he's like, oh, sorry, sorry. And she like hands the phone to Ginger and he's like, Ginger? All right, so here's what I'm going to do. He just snaps right back to it. See, I think Cameron sexually is not going to do anything he doesn't have to do. Do you know what I'm saying?

But I think he's going to get it fucking done. Right. And he wants to ring that bell. He wants results. Oh, he gets results. Goal oriented. There's no way he doesn't get results. For a guy who has made a career out of constantly setting the new benchmark of how expensive

a movie can be and how much a movie can gross, he's not going home without scoring. No, yeah. He needs, at least in his mind, he needs a trophy or a certificate. I bet he's invented new positions. No, he hasn't. One of them's called the Titanic. Oh. All right.

What were you going to say? No, we were done. You watched it in the edited version. When did you see the full thing? In my college years. I took a cyberpunk literature class. I may have talked about it on this podcast before. Great class. Very cool class.

Sounds good. And one of the things we watched was The Terminator. Good movie. Good movie. And when I watched it, I realized, I was like, wait a second. I've never seen all of it. I had later seen T2 as The Lame Times because I got it on DVD or whatever, but I'd never seen it before.

Yeah. It's great. Then I watched it again recently because I wanted to get Joanna, my girlfriend, very excited for Terminator Genisys, so I made her watch one and two. Then we didn't even see Terminator Genisys because I went to a screening and it's horrible. The worst.

It's so bad. But anyway, I've seen it many times. You've arrived. So here I am. You screening and it's horrible. The worst. It's so bad. But anyway. So I've seen it. I've seen it many times. You've arrived. So here I am. You know the full version now. Yeah. How do you rank the Terminator films?

I guess two. Yeah. One. Yeah. Three. Four, five, right? No. Five, four.

Four is the worst one. Not true. Yeah. Did Cameron make them all? No. He made one and two. Okay. The others are. I mean, there's. Not true. Yeah. Did Cameron make them all? No, he made one and two. Okay. The others are, I mean, there's a grand canyon between the first two and the others.

I mean, I think we'll cover more of this on our Terminator 2 episode, but like every five years someone else buys the rights. Someone rolls up their sleeves and they're like, this is so, why can't we take a crack at this? No. Terminator Genesis, which is the fifth one, is way better than Terminator Salvation because of one reason. Arnold Schwarzenegger's in it. You've made this argument to me and I disagree. Terminator Salvation's the one with Christian Bale and it's directed by McG.

It's awful. Wow. The only good thing about it is the rant. And that wasn't in the movie. That's, you know, the Christian Bale rant. That's from that movie. Here's my argument for why I like Terminator Salvation more than Terminator Genisys. God damn it. All's from that movie. Here's my argument for why I like Terminator Salvation more than Terminator Genisys. God damn it.

All right. Friend of the podcast John Henry was arguing why he hates Revenge of the Sith most of the prequels. Which I agree. Right. And he said, it's the one that's most offensive to me because Phantom Menace is shitting on my lawn, but Revenge of the Sith is shitting on my doorstep. Sure. Right.

It so directly leads into the thing that I So that's your call about Genesis? It's messing with this movie. Yeah and it's actually like Genesis travels all the way back and Genesis has like a new person playing Sarah Connor. It has Daenerys. Salvation's so its

own thing that it's just like a shitty movie. It doesn't like diminish Terminator. That's a fair argument. Yeah. Okay. So The Terminator arnold schwarzenegger oh sure i what i want to know is like why would a cyborg from the future have an austrian accent well indeed yes it's a question uh there's actually a deleted scene in termininator 3 that explains it. Wait, really? It's horrible. I love it. I disagree with you on this. I think it's a great scene. I think it's something where you see like, what's the joke exactly?

It's a boardroom of executives. You're in the present day and they're like, whoa, what should the Terminator look like? The scene is it's a boardroom and they're watching a video that's Arnold Schwarzenegger in a military outfit. And he's like, hi there, I'm Sergeant Candy. Oh my God. Introducing my new Terminator. It's modeled after me. The peak physical military outfit, and he's like hi there. I'm sergeant Oh my god, introduce my new terminator. It's not all after me the physical you know it's so It's like this high-promise scene and he's showing off this robot version of himself And he like turns off the video and turns around to them and he's like so what do you think?

And there's the scrawny guy at the table he goes change the voice and he goes, change da voice. Oh no. It's the voice. No one wants, it's like I asked that question but I didn't really want to answer it. It's my number one favorite scene of all time. I complain all the time about the fact that it's not in the movie.

It's not in the movie. It's like on the DVD extras. They cut it wisely. Incorrect. It should have been the whole movie. They should have released that scene on Hulu. Rachel just nailed it. Like people ask these questions

and they're like, yeah, let's do that in the sequel. Please never tell me. Well, I think his voice works beautifully because it sounds like a speech computer that's like 90% of the way there. They've almost hammered out all the glitches.

But he can't, like, it's perfect for this, yeah, but it is a weird risk and it's something, I mean, so let me give you guys tons of context. You guys want some context? Just a little. Let's get some context, baby.

So James Cameron made Piranhas to the Spawning, which is not a good movie and was like taken away from him during the editing process anyway and we reviewed it last week and we never need

to speak of it again. We'll talk about it a little bit. We'll talk about it once in a while. And then while he was making this movie, which is very stressful,

he had a dream about a metallic torso attacking him with knives. I mean, same, every night. He had that dream. You know, the classic dream where your teeth falls out in a metallic torso. And so, and he, like this, whatever, you know, this supposedly inspired the movie.

And he started writing. And Gayle Ann Hurd, who produced this movie and has a co-writing credit, and married James Cameron. After this film, right? And then divorced James Cameron. After Alien. Was she the first Mrs.? Second.

She was the second, yeah. But she was the first who was married to, like, filmmaker James Cameron, at least. Got it, yeah. So she claims she co-wrote the movie. He claims she gave him notes on the script. I feel like that's never

been totally resolved. Wonder who's right. Indeed. And then James Cameron's known for retaining sole script credit in all of his movies even though he has

other people working on them. He likes the written and directed by James Cameron. He is an auteur in his mind and he certainly is a control freak director who controls everything about his movies. But, yes, as you say,

other people work on his movies. What's his name? Latia Katatouris? He did a lot of work on Avatar, which he acknowledges, but was like, I'm getting credit on this one, baby. Here's a little IMDb trivia fact that I like from my Amazon Candlefire. That he had the first notion of the metal skeleton ripping out of his chest, engulfed in flames.

And then was like, that's a cool image. That image takes place in the future. Sure. I don't have enough money to make a future movie, so it's got to be a time travel movie. We'll get 10 minutes of the future in there. He was like, I want to send that back to a place that I can shoot without having to set dress everything. He early had the idea of a liquid metal robot as well.

That was originally Michael Biehn's character. Then he was like, all right, I can't do a liquid metal robot in the 80s with no money. The only way I can do it is just literally pour a cup of water on the ground and film the puddle. That is in Terminator 2, obviously. He comes back to it. So he settles on this idea. My guess

is, from everything I've heard about the script, Galen Hurd was like, you need human stuff in this movie. Really pushed him to strengthen the romance and have there be a little more of a story arc that's beyond a metal skeleton chasing someone. So I think that's where her contribution was strongest.

Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah. And for a little while I was worried. I was like, oh, they literally only had the woman character in this movie to be a meat sack for breeding. But then by the end it's like, oh, she actually is taking an active role. She's the one who stays alive. And Rachel Waits, you see Terminator 2.

You really, now I want to watch it with you. Because in Terminator 2, she's incredible. It's one of my favorite performances ever. But I was really won over. I was worried there in the middle. And then I was like, oh, it's okay. There is this weird element. He makes movies about women, usually.

Yeah, most of his protagonists are female. Or at least half the time. Yeah, and I think that's why it resonated with Aliens. Because it's sort of the same woman. I did like watching this movie. I immediately went to Wikipedia, and I was like, was James Cameron raised by a single mother? Because there's something, and he wasn't.

But it does feel like... Sure, there's an appreciation for that sort of... Maybe he wishes he had been. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to psychoanalyze his relationship with his father. But I do look at this movie and like for a guy who is so masculine, is so dominating, right?

No, but he has like this sort of almost pornographic like reverence for mothers. Yeah. That's the thing. That keeps coming back. Specifically. As these like inhumanly strong personalities. That's the most heroic thing you can do. Right.

And I do think there's something interesting like because the Terminator is always categorized as like action sci-fi. Sure. We've already established that it's kind of more horror slasher than action slasher. The other thing I think it is, is it is this weird kind of like fairy tale. Like this is his version of the Cinderella story. In the same way that we like talked about with Jupiter Ascending where it's like someone coming to like a woman who like even the introductory scene of her at like

the diner and the kid dumping the ice cream in her is such an early Cinderella thing of like oh mop the floors you have no value no one pays attention to you your boyfriend the guy cancelled on her in the date you know she's gotta listen like they really set up that thing of like she's sort of the latch key and then it's like someone comes to her and goes like you're important right like

you're secretly this i kind of hate that i mean it's like who is this guy to walk in there and like hand her the gift of her significance in the universe instead of letting her figure it out for her there's this scene where they're sitting in the car and she's like can you can you just like tell me what i need to do to like stay alive And he starts yelling. He's like, let me mansplain cyborgs to you. And I'm just like, dude, this is a tough situation for her. Yeah, have a little empathy. Let's think. There's this closed loop of her creation that is bound up in her, whatever Kyle is to her,

I mean, the father of her child and her son. And she's so important in it, but also they are kind of, it's this weird, like, thing where they're setting it all up for her. Right. But it is, like, I mean, yes, I do think,

I completely understand what you're saying. The difference between you and I is I have seen Terminator 2. That is a big difference. So I know the arc of the character and where it goes. I believe that. Right. That comforts me.

Yes, and this movie, like, you're correct. They only really have her self-actualize in the last, like, five minutes. Yeah. Basically once Kyle is, you know, down for the count. Right. And you see her, like, sort of like. I mean, you're Terminator's fucker. She speaks Spanish at the gas station.

Right. Good for her. Even just that final beat with her in the steel mill is kind of like, you see her, like, pick up the gauntlet and be like I'm dealing with this. And she delivers the punchline. Yeah. Terminator fucker. She delivers the death blow. She delivers the punchline and then the coda is like you see who

she is now. Which is so crucial to the movie but we'll get to the end of the movie. Jesus Christ. So James Cameron. Correct. He has this movie. He goes to Orion Pictures, which no longer exists, but was like a sort of mid-budget studio back in the 80s.

They made Silence of the Lambs. They made some good movies. Yeah, made a lot of really bad movies, but they made a couple really good ones. They made movies like this, so you can imagine a lot of them were bad. They made Hand of the Sisters, I think, as well. I think that's right.

He had his friend, Lance Henriksen, who is in this movie as the cop, the sort of skinny cop, not the boss cop, the sort of sarcastic cop. And he's a great actor. And he was in Piranha too. Had him put,

I want to get this right. He was wearing a leather jacket, fake cuts on his face, and gold foil smothered over his teeth. He kicked the door in at like the production meeting and like to be like the Terminatorinator. This is what the Terminator is going to look like. Wow. They gave him $4 million to make the movie

and they later raised it to $6 million. This movie cost $6 million to make. Cameron's famously one of the best pitches in Hollywood. He sells his movies really fucking hard. Now he sells it just by saying, I want to make another movie. It is one of those things where people are like, why can't people make movies? James Cameron made a crazy movie about blue aliens.

It's like, well, James Cameron's good at, you know, getting money out of weird things. Like, not everyone can pull that off. But he was also, like, a white man to start with. It doesn't hurt. A hundred percent. Look, I mean, this is Hollywood. It's 95% white men getting money.

Let's be realistic. Yeah. But, like, James Cameron did, I mean, for someone who has escalated the scale and scope of movies more than anyone else has, he did work harder than anyone else to do that. Yeah. No one wanted to give James Cameron $100 million. It's crazy.

Even if he was a white man and they were only ever going to give it to a white man. The famous thing. They didn't want to give anyone $100 million. Aliens is the famous one where he walked on set and everyone was like, who's this guy? We hate you. Because everyone who worked on Aliens had worked on Alien. Right. And they despised the fact that Ridley Scott wasn't making.

But we'll get to Aliens. And yes, there's an element of like white cis male privilege that he believes he can be that strong minded and get things done. He's the king of the world. But also no one else gets shit done like that. That's the thing is like he's the one guy who actually is just fucking like. Wait, what are you talking about? He gets shit done on such a scale. Lots of people get shit done. He's gotten some cool shit done. Yeah. I wouldn't disagree with that... Wait, what are you talking about? He gets shit done on such a scale. What's your argument? A lot of people get shit done. Lots of people get shit done. He's gotten

some cool shit done. I wouldn't disagree with that. Wait, what is your argument here? I'm saying I think James Cameron weaponizes his privilege more than most people do. He doesn't rest on laurels. An accomplished producer and so on and so forth. He's a big swinging

dick in Hollywood. But you know, lots of people get shit done. Yeah. He just makes good movies. He just really gets shit done. Right. But like, somebody's a big swinging dick in Hollywood. But you know, lots of people get shit done. Yeah. Yeah. He just makes good movies. He just really gets shit done. Right. But like, somebody got a lot of shit done to make, what's a bad movie? The Huntsman-Winters War.

I don't know. Like, a lot of shit got done. Yeah. Money was put on the table. Yeah. Pitches were made, and then they made The Huntsman-Winters War. You can waste that much money. Oh, yeah.

Or you can use it. You can get shit done. He knows what he's doing. And make can use it. You can get shit done and make shit. Yeah. Can I just throw out that the movie was released in Poland under the title The Electronic Murderer. Because

That's really good. It's a great title. There is a Polish word terminator that means an apprentice. Huh. So it would have been like the apprentice. The apprentice. Oh I see. So it would have been like The Apprentice. The Apprentice. Oh, I see. So they couldn't say that.

Right. So they call it The Electronic Murderer. But then seven years later when Terminator 2 came out, at that point it had become so big. It was such a big thing. They just called it Terminator 2. It was a sequel to a movie. Apprentice 2.

No, they called it just, yeah, they just called it The Apprentice 2. But what about the fact that Arnold Schwarzenegger is now the host of The Apprentice? Oh, shit. Kind of crazy. Think about it, Apprentice 2. But what about the fact that Arnold Schwarzenegger is now the host of The Apprentice? Oh, shit. Kind of crazy. Think about it, guys. Big Poland. What was I going to say? Well, a big topic of discussion in my cyberpunk class is that he is not actually a cyborg.

No, he's a robot. He's a robot. Because, like, it's just- A cyborg would be like a human with robot parts integrated. It's basically like a cyborg. A cyborg, you need both to live. Yeah. You know, one relies on the other.

He just has like a flesh costume. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He's a robot in human skin. He's basically like you put the drugs in the pillow, you know, to get the pillow, like the drugs through customs.

Like, as Kyle says, like it only, only organic tissue, whatever it's surrounding gets through this time machine. But don't give the pillow too much credit. The thing that's getting you hired the drugs that's the thing that's killing you is the robot the skin's just that's what gets him through but of course this movie

doesn't work without the skin no i mean i love the part at the end where he starts to smell bad and like fall apart and the neighbors are just like what the fuck man like it's great and he turns into a zombie so suddenly it's like kind of a zombie movie. I like that. It has a lot of zombie, which I guess the slasher movies kind of do too, because the serial killers like Michael Myers or Jason or whoever will kind of turn into zombies because they're like getting shot and then they come back up and they're sort of raggedy now and like maybe one of their arms is hanging weird.

Yeah, right. And part of what makes him so creepy is that he was initially looked human and becomes less and less recognizable. Yeah. He's got a weird eye. Yeah. Sure does. I just love.

Sure does. This is a real basic thought. Oh boy. But I love when movies can take something that is not special at all and because of context make it have like a lot of weight behind it. Like what? So like Sorcerer, the William Friedkin movie, where they're trying to get this truck full of wet dynamite

through the jungle. You're watching it and you're so tense. I saw it with our friend Ramona Head. And at one point in the movie I was like, oh, but there's not real dynamite on the truck. But when they cut to a close-up of the dynamite, you get so tense, but nothing's happening. It's just a close-up of a stick.

And so the first half of this movie, it's just Arnold Schwarzenegger wearing bad punk clothes. And you infer onto him the feeling that he is a robot because the film is giving you that context. And his performance is killing it. And the performance is killing it. But it's only in the second, I'd say even the third act is when he really starts deteriorating. Because even when he's got the eye, most of the time he's wearing the sunglasses over. He immediately puts the sunglasses on.

What I want to know is where did he get the leather jacket? He does like an outfit change after his little eye operation? Well, because he's got the punks, so he's wearing the punk clothes for a while. It's the same other clothes underneath. It's the shirt, the pants, and the boots are the same as the punk outfit. Right. The jacket changes. He loses the jacket, the first jacket, which is pretty lame.

He gets a cool jacket. And then he gets a much cooler jacket. I forget. You know, the version of this movie I would love to see is one in which he gives up his murder quest and he just figures out how to be a cool human boy and how to fit in with the punks. It'll be so beautiful. You're going to like the other Terminator movies.

One thing I like about Terminator 2 is that in Terminator 2 he looks like Hell's Angel because he lands at a biker bar. What I want is in Terminator 3 for him to land somewhere completely different and wear gymnastics clothes. Well, but I love the joke in Terminator 3. I'm clearly a fan of all the stupid elements of Terminator 3. Terminator 3 is just like jerking you off about the first two movies. Yeah, guess what? I love those first two movies. Yeah, they're good.

The joke in Terminator 3 is that, like, it's Terminator 2, he lands a biker bar, so he immediately gets the iconic, like, leather biker look. Okay. Terminator 3, he lands at a male strip club. Nice. And so it's like his, you know, seemingly badass Terminator outfit is actually just, like, a leather daddy's, like, kind of, like, stripper suit,

which I really like. And let's not forget that, like, the first really amazing image of this movie is, like, his naked buns glistening in the lamplight. And let's not forget that the first really amazing image of this movie is his naked buns glistening in the lamplight. And here's the thing we've got to talk about. This is real Schwarzenegger. Those are great buns. Yes.

He's not sexy. No. But he is a specimen. He's beautiful. He's impressive. He looks great. He's like an incredible building. He's a perfect piece of architecture.

He looks like he should have 30 Rockefeller Center on his back. He looks like an art deco. Or he a perfect piece of architecture. He looks like he should have like 30 Rockefeller Center on his back. He looks like an art deck. He's like a nice computer. You can eroticize it but it's not in and of itself an erotic object. It's hard to imagine being attracted to Arnold Schwarzenegger. I would agree with that. We're skipping over something really major.

We're going to go back to it. And I watched this movie in HD and I had never certainly noticed this before. You catch a glimpse? You see some pecker watched this movie in HD, and I had never certainly noticed this before. Oh, you catch a glimpse? You see some pecker in this movie. Oh! I didn't notice that. I missed it. I noticed it.

It was sort of shadowy. I was surprised. Maybe I had the brightness, you know, amped up too much. Maybe you paused it and, like, you know, sort of went back and forth frame by frame. But it was when he's walking towards Bill Paxton and the other punks, I saw some, like, real, like, flapping. Like swinging. Some swinging. I wouldn't even say swinging.

I'd say it was flapping. It was going. Okay, all right. He didn't give a shit. He posed, like, nude in gay magazines. Right, I wouldn't even say swinging I'd say it was flapping it was going he didn't give a shit he posed like nude and gay man I guess he was used to that I mean he was a bodybuilder we'll get to Schwartzy

in a second but I want to give you so Henriksen Lance Henriksen that kind of reedy guy who I love he was Cameron's first choice for the role

that wasn't going to happen a little too brainy Sylvester Stallone gets offered the role because it's 1984 he turns it down infamously Mel Gibson gets I'm brainy. Sylvester Stallone gets offered the role because it's 1984. He turns it down. Infamously.

Mel Gibson gets, I'm coming to the infamously. Mel Gibson gets offered the role. He turns it down. The producers want OJ Simpson for the role. And the sort of infamous joke is that James Cameron didn't think he was convincing as a murderer. Now, that actually makes sense, especially since we've all probably seen Made in America this year. You know, OJ's whole image was he was like the Hertz guy. I'm not a murderer. Now, that actually makes sense, especially since we've all probably seen Made in America this year. OJ's whole image was he was like the Hertz guy. He was cutesy. One could argue his entire

brand is I'm not a murderer. I'm the least threatening big guy you've ever seen. Still to this day, that is his brand. So, then they wanted Schwarzenegger. They suggested Schwarzenegger, who had been in the Conan movies. That's basically all- The first one.

The second one came out the same year as this. It came out the same year as this, but he was making it. They rushed it. But that was basically all he had. He was the bodybuilder guy. He'd been in that documentary, Pumping Iron. Which was a big breakthrough because he was really charismatic and funny in it. And then he's in Stay Hungry.

He's in Stay Hungry, which is this little drama with Jeff Bridges. But he got a Golden Globe newcomer nomination. He's getting an Hungry, which is this little drama with Jeff Bridges. But he got like a Golden Globe newcomer nomination. He's, you know, getting anointed. People were like, oh, he could maybe act. Then he does Conan and Conan's big. And they were suggesting, weirdly, they were suggesting him for Kyle Reese. Stupid. Which is crazy.

Insane. That would be really hard to watch. Studios are really stupid. Yeah. And so finally, apparently Cameron put him off a lot. That's just what I like about it. I love those little movie stories where it's like, you know, it almost didn't happen. And Schwarzenegger immediately started talking about, like, how he would do the villain,

like, rather than play Kyle Reese. And James Cameron said, like, wait, wait, wait, stop, stop. And, like, started drawing his face and was like, let me put some sunglasses on this. You know, like, immediately was like, all right, all right. I can see it. And they made the movie. And Schwarzenegger thought it was like immediately it was like, all right, all right. I can see it. And they made the movie. And Schwarzenegger thought it was going to be like a total piece of shit. It's hard not to think this was going to be a piece of shit.

Yeah, on paper. The guy made Piranha 2. She's got that like feathered hair. Right. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, a $6 million movie about a robot. You know, I mean, it just sounds dumb. It's called The Terminator.

Like, it sounds stupid and the one-liner like plot of this movie is time traveler tries to impregnate a woman he just met before a robot shoots her yeah like that's the struggle of this movie it's like can i can i i'll give you as much money as you want for that one. Right. The first choice for Kyle Reese was Sting. Oh my god. And instead they went for Michael Biehn, who's got kind of a sting. What a loss. Sting. Wow. They definitely sting his hair up. Yeah, they sting his

hair up. I just felt like he was so he was so lame that it was just like like a pity fuck. I don't know. I mean, look, you know, it's a tough it's a tough situation there and they were just in it. I'd have sex with Michael Biehn. I think he's good at selling the mania. Yeah, he's a little deranged.

He kills the scene where he's basically saying, you know, the scene where he's been taped by the police psychiatrist. That, to me, is his best scene. Yeah. Because you don't see much of the future. You do see these brief scenes of the future. But he kills you getting that Sarah believes it, basically.

Yeah. Well, it's also hilarious because the police officer is supposed to be us having someone describe the plot of this movie to us. Right. It's like, oh, you're like, oh, that sounds insane. And I love that the, what's the psychiatrist called? I keep blanking on this. Psychiatrist, yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. What's his name? You know, Earl Bone is the actor. Yes. And he's like, he's in- Peter Silberman. Okay.

Yeah, whatever. That name is nothing. I love when he says, like, this is like such a great crazy guy story. It's a total closed loop. Like, you could never prove any of it.

Like, the robot's a guy. You know, like like this is great like i can't disprove anything he's arguing yeah i love that idea that it is such a logically crazy yet thing for someone to think yes there's also a detail that i picked up in this viewing that i certainly didn't pick up when i was 11 sure which is that like it's implied that calriss is a virgin yeah man oh true yeah who's to have sex in a world where Terminators could pop up at any moment? I've never felt the touch

of a woman. Yeah. And she's like, oh, honey. Yeah, that sex scene is in real time. Thank you, Ben. Our first film critic.

Ten comedy points. I do think that's sort of like, you watch him, you're kind of like, who's this fuck boy? But it kind of, in that scene,

I think he's good and I think part of the movie needs to work that he's sort of like, you watch him and you're kind of like, who's this fuckboy? But it kind of, in that scene, I think he's good. I think part of the movie needs to work that he's sort of like, a little bland. Did you know he's in Grease? No. Really? He's uncredited as a basketball player. Well, that sounds important. He'd also been in Logan's Run and not much.

Was he in anything after this? Did this launch him at all? He's in The Abyss. He's in Aliens. He's in Aliens. Yeah, of course. He's the main. I forgot you just said. Of course, of course, of course.

You can't see anyone's face in that. It's true. I mean, everyone's very dirty. He's like the main military love interest. He's kind of the same character. Very much the same. He always plays the same character for Cameron. He's in The Abyss.

He's in Terminator 2 in the director's cut. Yeah. But only for a scene. Yeah. A good scene. Yeah, director's cut. Yeah. But only for like a scene. Yeah. A good scene. Yeah, it's a good scene. Is he in anything famous like that's not a Cameron movie? I believe he had substance issues.

He's in The Rock. Yeah, I know. Yeah, he's in The Rock. I forgot he's in The Rock. He starts appearing in like action movies, but in much more like tertiary roles. All the time. Yeah. He plays like corporate people and like you know like commanders in like

the fucking control room yelling out the orders and stuff like that he still works but he had this amazing run as like cameron's guy he was gonna be in um alien 3 for a while and then they wrote him out you know yeah you know i mean he's cameron's guy like that's kind of and cameron i feel like almost would just sort of do him favors after aliens i just think i mean aliens he's Cameron's guy. And Cameron, I feel like, almost would just sort of do him favors after Aliens. I just think, I mean, Aliens is really good because he's very vulnerable. Like, he's very open in that movie, which I really like. Yeah, he's appealing there. Right.

And then Abyss is playing up the mania. Yeah, yeah. This is sort of the balance of the two. It's alternating between the mania and the, like, vulnerability. I feel like I've been hard on him, but he's kind of cute. I don't really,

I have no problems with him. The problem, well, so I'll say in Aliens, what I like about him and I can't believe, well, whatever, is that he basically

takes Ripley's orders pretty quickly. He sort of snaps into a secondary role. Right. That's what makes him a hero is that he realizes that Ripley's bad.

You know what's going on. Yeah, exactly. In this one, he's kind of not... Luke Skywalker's almost an interesting comparison because even though Luke Skywalker isn't yelling

at everyone all the time, he is sort of just kind of grating for the first 40 minutes of the movie because he won't stop whining and complaining and asking,

what's this now? He's constantly trying to move the action forward when the other characters don't really want him to. Or you just want to grab him and slow down and be like, let's get our bearings. And Kyle is also kind of grating because he won't stop screaming at everyone and asking what the year is. And I don't know, saying we have to write. Yeah. I mean, here's what I like about Michael Biehn a lot in this movie.

And this speaks to the weird alchemy of what makes movies great and all these things that you can't really control like I almost think a better actor in the role would have been to the detriment of the movie. I can see this

because because the Terminator has to be like the biggest presence in the film right. You need a guy who just like pops in that way.

We're all Schwarzenegger is just like this weird fucking thing and everything he does is like oddly compelling. Right. Right. And everything he does is like oddly compelling. Right. Right. And you also need,

even though like the script demands that Kyle Reese be the like force driver, the plot driver for so much of the film. You need Sarah to have like the predominant emotional. She's the one who's supposed to have an art. Look. Exactly. She needs to be more important than he is. And you,

you need to want her to take the reins at the end of the film. And so it's like, I think he's good. I think he fits the role well. There's a thing that you and I have talked about briefly on this podcast, which is a common complaint that you and I have about the media landscape, which is that generally people are too good looking. And it's not just that genetically they cast people who are too good looking,

but also everyone's too buff. I was thinking about this the other day watching TV. I was like, these ladies, they're too pretty. Everyone's all put together perfectly. It's true. And I watched this movie and it's like... And too well dressed. People didn't used to be so well dressed. No. So Schwarzenegger is beautiful

but also not sexual. Right. Sure. But he's a beautiful piece of art. And then you look at Michael Biehn and Linda Hamilton. Both of them are attractive people. Yeah. But they don't look like models. No. They're dressed down. They're not like super posy.

And there's something about the fact that it's like, not to, you know, but fucking in Terminator Genisys, Jai Courtney plays Kyle Reese. Yeah. And he's, I mean, it's the biggest problem with Terminator Genisys. He's like swole. I feel like there's been like a Who Weekly episode about him and I still don't know who he is. No one will ever know who he is. He's in seven major franchises.

No one likes him. No one likes him. He's fine, but he looks like an army grunt. He's very built. He looks like an army grunt, but he also looks like an American Eagle Outfitters model. He's got this huge head and big blue eyes and everything. Huge head. It's so big.

It's insane. Whereas Kyle, I mean, Michael Biehn's head's quite small. It's quite small. But the other thing, in this movie, well, finish your point. Well,

I just think there's nothing relatable about someone like that. And it's a place where genre movies go wrong today, I think, is that like, the movies where you want really beautiful people

are like your Cameron Crowe movies. You know, you want to see like, peak Tom Cruise and Renee Zellweger fall in love because it's a human story and you want to elevate that story to a higher level. I think it's kind of an inverse relationship.

It's like the more the plot matters, the more that's going on, the less you need the people to be like gorgeous. Because if the world of the film is so far away from the world that we live in, the people in it need to reflect you more. Yeah. Then like Jerry Maguire, it's like, well, I fall in love so I can watch people who are better than me fall in love in the Terminator you're like these people need to be like that shirt

needs to be kind of shitty you know yeah well fuck Terminator 3 through 5 but this movie gets that right on the other hand

I saw like Sarah Connor's outfit in the first scene she has like this sort of like blue windbreaker-y thing and these amazing jeans

and she looks great. I was like, I want to wear that. She does. So to be fair, she looks good. No beef with Linda Hamilton. Part of that's hindsight. No, it's true. These styles have come back around. Right. And there's this James L. Brooks TV movie that I'm kind of obsessed with called

Thursday's Game that's about Bob Newhart and Gene Wilder who get kicked out of their weekly poker game and decide to just like hang out every week. So they like have time away from their families and their jobs. So they just like take walks through the park every Thursday. It's a really nice movie. Sure. But the two of them are supposed to be like such like sad sack like New York pencil pushers

and they have the coolest fucking suits in the world in that movie because that fashion just like cyclically came around. Yeah. I also think like she's well dressed in this movie but it doesn't feel like she's wearing designer clothes. Like she's not Carrie Bradshaw. She's down trotted. Very relatable. Yeah. She like bought

good shit from like a mall store. You know? And I like how piecemeal like I mean Kyle Reese looks like a fucking homeless person. I got really distracted. He did show up naked. Because he's wearing the He did show up naked. Yeah. Because he's wearing the homeless man's pants the whole movie. Oh, man.

How could they fit? What's in those? And they got pants cladders on them, too. And, like, I know he's from the future. I know they probably don't have showers, but, like, cool baby. I mean, they're all homeless in the future, Ben. Think about it.

There are no homes. They all sleep on, like, beds of skulls. That crotchal region, though, is ripe. And then she sleeps with them. Sorry. No, but they had a shower in the motel room, so they showered first. They definitely showered first. Then she re-feathered the hair.

She blew it out again. I think another reason they have Michael Biehn is that he's a little shrimpy, which you need because you need someone who's way smaller than Arnold Schwarzenegger. And they do a great job. They want to draw that comparison as much as they can. His clothes are so ill-fitting. Yeah. Even the shirt's too long and everything. That long coat that he wears without a shirt underneath. And they do a great job. They want to draw that comparison as much as they can. His clothes are so ill-fitting. Yeah. Like even the shirt's too

long and everything. That long coat that he wears without a shirt underneath and you're just like, oh. And the shirt's all stretched out. Like he looks so microscopic. I mean, but the only problem I have with that is sometimes while I'm watching and I'm like this guy, like, there wasn't like a guy, a more well-fed guy

you could send through the fucking time. You have one shot at the time machine. But when you watch that Courtney. But he was preordained. No, I know. That's the problem. And the other thing is. My eyes hurt.

Yeah. You know, from thinking about time loops. Sorry. When you watch Shai Courtney, it's like, this guy's gonna make it.

He's fine. And you watch this and there's tension because it's like Michael Biehnier's scared. In Terminator Genisys. Oh, I knew he would die. There was no question.

But I'm saying like in every scene you're like, this guy can't really fend for himself. Oh, sure. Like this could be it. There's. But I'm saying, like, in every scene, you're like, this guy can't really fend for himself. Oh, sure. Like, this could be it. There's tension moment to moment. In Terminator Genisys, you see the other side.

You see the future, and you see, like, they find the time machine, and John Connor, who there is played by Jason Clarke, is like, who will go through? And Jai Courtney's like, I'll go through. And he has to be like, all right. Pull off his shirt. Literally the best body I've ever, he looks better than Schwarzenegger in this movie. And then he sort of like takes his pants off.

And everyone looks at his giant dick. Yeah, seriously. And Jason Clarke is like, so tell my mom, like, thank you, Sarah Connor. Like those exact words. Like,

we appreciate your service. Like, the future is not set. He's like, okay, got it. I go exact words. Like, we appreciate your service. Like, the future is not set. It's like, okay, got it. I go in here. Yeah, like, it's the worst. You've seen Genesis. I hate it so much.

It's quite bad. But it's like, Kyle Reese in this, you're like, because watching this, right, for the first time since I was 11, where I have like a more critical eye, I was like, the thing I was skeptical of is like, how are they going to sell the idea that they fall in love this quickly? Right? And the movie pushes you along like it makes you

jump through hoops but I think the big key to that is the idea that like Kyle Reese has had no life whatsoever he's like never seen a woman practically he's already sold on it before he gets there although I do love that the first future war scene you see it's Kyle in the front lines with a woman

you see an awesome lady it's true that's the thing Cameron always does is like and it's like the thing that everyone always says if you don't have

female characters in your script just like make a character female you know just like change the name of the character make her female

and James Cameron just like does that like there are just more women per capita in his movies than any other genre to be fair I would say a large percentage

of the women in this movie get shot within seconds of us seeing them a large percentage of the women in this movie get shot within seconds of us seeing them. A large percentage of people in this movie get shot. You're right. You're right about that.

It's a definite faint praise award, but I think he puts more women on the battlegrounds in a future war than most filmmakers do. You have to assume it's why they thought of him for Aliens.

No question. One of the reasons. Or why he was drawn to Aliens. They see this movie and they hire him for aliens basically is how it goes. Like it's almost instantaneous. Well I've heard a different story

but we'll get to that next week. But the thing I was going to say is I like the way that Kyle's character is set up. He's just been moving from outpost to outpost. Shooting. Survival.

No time to develop a personality. And you believe if he has that picture and that's the idea. He's so preset on falling in love with her. No, but it's her, it's more her falling for homeless man. Would this really happen? Yeah.

That's much harder. Right. Right. But I think there's something to, I mean, see watching it this time. I think they're cute. Yeah.

I don't really need them to be believable. Like, I'm not an idiot. I know this is sci-fi. Exactly. It's fine. It's going to happen. Go on. watching it this time

I definitely understood him falling for her well yeah the sex scene I view as more of a pity fuck cause even the way she plays it she basically says that well and she says like are there a lot of women in your time she's obviously flirting with him at that point but he's like no none and then she's

like oh well shit now I gotta do this he came back all the way from the past he's gonna die I also think she might have just figured it out she's like I have to have this future baby like this is probably how I'm gonna have the future baby cause like I figured it out this is like a really fucked up

first date no this is their second date their first date is when he like snaps her in the car and there's tech war and all that. Then he is put in jail. Then he escapes from jail, breaks her out. That's the start of date two. They spend the night

in the little tunnel. That's nice. That's sort of the spark, right? That's their first human moment together where he's not just yelling about robots. And he sounds, honestly, he sounds better than her other boyfriend who leaves her the voice mail. He sounds like no good. That's what I was going to say. This movie is populated with fuckboys.

This is a toxically masculine film. I don't think that... I'm not just trying to sound woke over here. I think that is intentional. It is a movie about women who have to constantly look over their shoulder.

Right. Yeah. Especially poor old Sarah. And like the slashery. That's where all those jumps come from in the beginning the fake outs. Yeah.

And the slashery executions of the other two Sarah Connors are a little much I would say. But they serve a purpose. Like that he wants you to be that uncomfortable. I like that he shocks you

that much. I mean the whole movie is about like this robot killer who has no human emotions. It's completely merciless and the movie acts like the robot. It's like it shows you this human character and it's like well fuck them they're dead now. Sorry you were called

Sarah Connor. It gets the job done and that gets to like you know it's so weird watching it in context that I'll be back is like the famous line from this movie. Because on its own, it's just like some fucking thing he says. It's like a weird joke. You know, but it's like it's all set up in context. But it's like because, you know, I mean, it's not a good line in and of itself.

It's just about in relation to what is happening in the movie. It's just something about the fact that the robot decides to say it. Yeah. It's one of his very few moments of any personality. I think that's why it's so good. Well, and you know, because a couple of times I show you his little screen where he has five options like it's a video game. I'm an awful asshole. Right. That one's great.

And this one, it's like I wonder what his other options were besides I'll be back. The punchline could have been something completely different. It could have been four other things and we'll never know what they were. The funny thing for me is that he felt the need to say anything. He could have just walked out and then came back through with the car. Right. That's what I mean. But it feels like he's having a little fun at this point.

Sure. For someone who's been all work up until now. As we learn in Terminator 2 that they are learning computers. The more they stick around, the more they behave like humans. Right. The idea of the Terminator is for it to exist in the future as something that creeps into your camp. It's not built for the past.

It's also a line where his accent hits really hard. Well, he wanted to say, again, this is an almost famous show, but he wanted to say, I will be back. Because he couldn't say, I'll. He can't say it. He says, I'll be back. I'll be back. I'll be back. Owl be back.

Owl be back. Owl be back. Schwarzenegger really tried to convince Cameron that the robot wouldn't use a contraction. That seems true. Right. But if it had been pre-recorded and written for his robot brain, like maybe. And I think Cameron was essentially like

fuck you, the line's good. Just do it. the goddamn line. You know, like, he has 18 lines in the movie. Yeah. Which is... It's not a lot. It's crazy, yeah. Well, I got two points to make.

One is... But he does a good job. You know, Cameron's a guy... I'll be back, guys. It's a thing I miss from movies, and especially, like, genre movies. But, like, every decision matters, right? Totally. Like, I read Brad Birdson in an interview once

that he studied Fred Astaire's dancing a lot. Fred Astaire had really big hands, and because of that, he wouldn't use his hands that much when he was dancing. He'd keep them down by his sides. So that way, when he wanted to make a scene out of it, if he opens his hands up, it was a special effect. It'd look weird if he did something with his hands.

And I feel like you look at this movie and like for how famous the like score is which is in and of itself very minimalist. There are a lot of sequences where there's no music. There are a lot of long stretches

with no dialogue. Yeah. You know? Where it's sound effects and like movement. And he knows like when to cut to a close up when to have the music kick in

when to have a line you know when to like punch it. Yep. It's very confident. It's a movie that trains you how to have the music kick in, when to have a line, you know, when to like punch it. Yep. It's very confident. It's a movie that trains you how to watch it because when he does something like that,

you know it's of importance. Oh, this is going to matter. Yeah, it's true. And the I'll be back moment. That's an applause line and he knows that. Right. And he's doing the hands.

He knows what he's doing. He's flashing his hands. They're flashing the applause lines. But there's, in the scene where he's talking to the guy behind the counter. The fuck you asshole. Right. Oh he's talking to the guy behind the counter. The fuck you asshole.

Right. Oh, no, behind the counter. Behind the counter. I love that scene. Leading into the I'll be back, right? Oh, okay. The police scene. Okay.

Yes. I was talking about the weapons scene. Oh, that scene's amazing. I love that scene. With, what's his name? Dick Miller. Yeah, Dick Miller. Yeah.

Who's a corpsman actor. The scene, the I'll be back scene, it's all shot at like three quarters, like from the side. And then just for that one line for I'll be back scene, it's all shot at like three quarters from the side. And then just for that one line for I'll be back, it's fucking head on. He's almost looking into the camera. You can't see what the sunglasses... And then you cut back to

him entering in the ledger. And then you cut to his POV of the fucking truck coming through. And it's like he knows what he's doing. But watching this movie, the first 40 minutes have so little dialogue. and what exists there is like stop freeze you know like stuff like that what years yeah and like sarah's the only person who's having like dialogue scenes you know like chatting and and uh yeah because even

ginger like barely says anything she's just uh dressing and or listening to her walkman right yeah but even like talking to her and then we get to like the cops a little bit later and there's like communication there. I like it when the cops show up almost because you're so tense and you're like, God, this movie is so crazy. Oh, the cops are totally comic relief. They're great. You're like, oh, some normal guys.

I love Paul Winfield. Great. I only really know him from, oh no, he's, I mean, he was like a serious Oscar nominated actor. Sounder. Sounder. Yeah. But I know him from Rathakhan from having a big eel stuck in his ear.

Oh yeah. That's what I think of. He's also the first guy killed in Mars Attacks. General Casey. That's right. Is he like literally the first guy? That's such a disturbing scene. He's the one who goes out with the handshake and then they offer the dove and then they freeze him. And then they shoot him and it turns into a skeleton. That fucking movie freaked me out

when I was a kid. I love that movie. My brother Jamesy for whatever reason General Casey was his favorite character and he would always like really want a General Casey action figure. I don't think there is one. There wasn't. We'd look and he'd be like, there has to be a General Casey. They didn't make any of the humans, let alone General Casey. Who cares about the humans?

They're all meat. They made the fucking Martians. But he was like, we'd go to stores and he'd make my mom ask the Toys R Us employee, do you have a General Casey? The first guy killed played by Paul Winfield. Paul Winfield. Yeah. Winfield.

Winfield. I just love how nice he is to Sarah, but not in, like, a cheesy way. He's just like, Jesus, let me go on. There is actually, I thought this was interesting, there's like a scary cop moment when they're in the car chase and, like, Arnold has just, has just crashed and run away or whatever. And she's really scared because she's like,

don't get out of the car, the cops will shoot you. Yeah, and it was like, well, if they weren't white, they probably would have. I mean, well, this is a different movie. No, but I thought that was interesting that it even came up that they use the cop cars in the chase that way when they didn't have to yeah

God I just fucking love James Cameron what? I'm just thinking about how great this movie is you're thinking about the cop chasing? everything is just like he just knows exactly like how much meat to put on the bun on the bread?

yeah I guess how much skin to put on the cyborg yeah he knows exactly how much skin to put on the cyborg how much bread? Yeah, I guess. Meat on the bread? On the sandwich, yeah. How much skin to put on the cyborg. Yeah, he knows exactly how much skin to put on the cyborg. How much dick to have flapping the shadow. It was, yeah. Yeah, I just like that he makes every single thing count. And there's this thing, I think I talked about this in a previous episode,

but when I was helping teach kids comedy, the idea that it's sort of like juggling like if you're setting up a joke and you give every detail you give the audience is like another ball right you're asking them to keep juggling right so it's like don't set up a joke with anything other than what's going to pay off the joke later okay and like cameron like that. He just, you know. Yeah, there aren't really loose ends in this. No. It's a closed loop of a movie. And the superfluous details

like Pugsley or whatever are just like, I guess you need one piece of levity here. I mean, I would hate this movie if Pugsley weren't in it. I love Pugsley so much. What did Pugsley do after this?

Did he work? Pugsley? Yeah. I don't know. Can we look him up on high TV? I hope he had a long and illustrious career. How long does a lizard live? Lizards live a while, right? They could, yeah.

They have longevity. What even was he, an iguana? He looks like an iguana. Yeah. And that was the hot 80s pet. The hot lizard. But it just, it's also, I feel like it's just like a nice little slightly pathetic like garnish yeah she's a sad lizard lady stood up yeah she's got her pet to worry about but it's not even like a really interesting you're right that is that is like a useful detail in establishing

her like sad sack life that she's gonna be swept out of right yeah uh the ice cream in the um the specificity of the boy putting the ice cream in like her pockets I love that I know but I just think that's like good like you know every movie

the relatable character their first scene should be their first sheen should be Charlie but their first scene I don't know Martin oh yeah no you're right

probably Martin's probably a better first sheen but then the problem is you're gonna have to get to Charlie it's gonna be a bummer at that point it is maybe you wanna leave with Charlie and then oh here's Martin a better first scene. Yeah. But then the problem is you're going to have to get to Charlie. It's going to be a bummer at that point. It is.

Yeah. Maybe you want to leave with Charlie and then, oh, here's Martin. Much better. Oh, this is a relief. I'll take. But I like every character's introduction in a movie should be them spilling coffee on themselves. Like I feel like a movie already elevates whatever it's putting on screen into such

like mythic levels. Yeah. That like you want the characters to come down to earth, the ones you're supposed to relate to. And something like that where it's like, someone put a fucking ice cream scoop in her like her apron. Like that's the part that's like feels really Cinderella to me is like this person where it's like her life fucking sucks.

Like this is like some little moment that feels like an encapsulation of everything. It doesn't even suck. It's just boring. It's just boring. It's quite dull. Yeah. You want like someone to like whisk you away.

And she can't even, you know, she can't even, Jesus Christ, David, get a date for Saturday night or whatever. But it's this inversion of, like, the Cinderella myth where it's, like, Cinderella is, like, your life sucks. You work too hard. Now someone's going to give you everything you ever wanted. And this, it's like, your life is boring. And now I'm going to give you more responsibility ever wanted and this it's like your life is boring and now I'm going to give you more responsibility than any person has ever had right here's your

destiny but it's a lot of fucking work and a lot of weight on your shoulders it's one thing I like about this movie that's better than Jupiter Ascending is that I'll agree that Terminator is better than Jupiter Ascending you're going to go ahead and say that this film is a better film than Jupiter Ascending like an 8.6 versus an 8.5 I'll say this is film than Jupiter Ascending. Like an 8.6 versus an 8.5.

I'll say this is better than Jupiter Ascending. The better than the Cinderella story retold in sci-fi terms or whatever, or the Wizard of Oz story, whatever you want to call it, is that she's being burdened with something that is not... I mean, it's exciting. Yes. And it's not without its sort of like... It's sort of cool.

Yeah. But it's also, like, this, like, terrible, insane burden that she has to immediately shoulder. It's not like she's just being told, like, you know, you're an intergalactic space princess. It's not a fun destiny. It's not a particularly fun destiny. No. It's a thinker, and you immediately go, like, geez, what would I do in that situation? But at the end of the movie, you were still like, oh, man, she's pretty fucking cool in this in this like gas station

yeah the headband the headband and the weird cloudy sky and she's you know she's got her tape recorder where did the dog come from was that the dog

from the motel did that dog die yeah where did that dog come from but she knows that a German Shepherd is like the right kind of dog to have

yeah good dog to have good dog yeah and he is in T2 yeah thank god because they go she goes to have. Good dog. Yeah. And he is in T2. Yeah. Thank God. Because she goes to Mexico and the dog's there.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Or at least a dog. Yeah. I don't think Pugsley's in it though. Sorry. Did you look up Pugsley's career?

I did not. You want me to do that? No. It's okay. I'll do it later. It's crazy because like even when I was watching this for the first and previous time when I was 11.

Yeah. I saw the fucking Liquid Terminator. I knew that he was the good guy in the second one. Right. Like I knew. Which is like the big twist. Right. Yeah.

I knew what was going to be subverted from the first movie in the second one before I was watching the first movie. Right. And so I was like watching through it like okay let's get on with it. I want to get to the part where he's a good guy. Second movie. Hang out with a boy. That's what I thought would happen. watching theater like okay let's get on with it i want to get to the part where he's a good guy second movie hang out with a boy right yeah um but the first like half of this before like he's

gotten fucking visible robot damage to him when there's like so little dialogue when the sarah connor scenes are like so like slice of life you know it really is just this weird thing of like two men chasing her around pretty much silently with very little music and just like back alleys and like ducking and hiding and shadows and it's like this very ominous very creepy movie where it's just like this lingering thread and it just before he has to ever show

what he's capable of Schwarzenegger does such a fucking good job of just because I think this is his range. There's a lot about Pugsley on the internet guys. Amazing. Of just seeming so unstoppable. Yeah. Like it's just like he's this completely unwavering force of nature.

Right, which makes it hard to watch, at least for me. It's a very frustrating experience to watch a bad presence, like a villain character who just cannot be influenced in any way, no matter what they do. And cannot be stopped. I mean, like physically any way, physically, psychologically. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it's frustrating, but it's also, you have to imagine like at this time when no one had done that before, when so much of this movie is so new, the like splash of water this movie must have felt like to be like, he's just fucking like changing all the rules. He's playing fast and loose. I would like to see the sort of sci-fi spectrum that this movie falls on. Yeah, I was wondering about that.

E.T. is right around the same time. E.T.'s 82. I think Tron is the same year. I was curious. I looked up when the first Alien came out and that was like five years earlier. Alien is 78. 79.

79. And Aliens is 86. The Thing, which is another great mix of sci-fi and horror tropes, is 82. Maybe that's John Carpenter. That must have been an influence. And this comes out only a year

after Return of the Jedi. That's the dominant sci-fi thing is like Star Wars, you know? And the idea of like, you know, I mean, this sort of immersive world building versus something like the Terminator, which is like intercepting with our world. Well, and Terminator, it like gives you little windows into a world that looks kind of like Star Wars. I mean, like a really shitty, sad version of it where the robots have won, I guess.

Yes. But there's a rebel force and they're hiding out and they're trying to bring down these big crawler machines or whatever. They're pretty cool. Yeah. They're scary. Yeah, they're scary.

Yeah, so it did not resonate with that. So I'm going to read you guys the entire Pugsley entry on the Terminator Wiki. Oh, my God. Pugsley was Sarah Connor's pet iguana. He frequently escaped from his cage and appeared to give Ginger Ventura

the creeps. It is unknown what happened to him after Sarah went into hiding. Appearances, the Terminator. That's it. That's all you got. There's a lot of complaints on the internet that Pugsley was not in Terminator Genisys. Yeah. That actually is a really big problem.

Yeah, which is a really sucky thing. I already wasn't going to watch it, but I'm especially not going to watch it because of that. Yeah. It's a cool movie. Costs $6 million to make. The special effects are kind of crazy. Yeah. There's like two, I feel like there's two things that sort of stick out and yet they are

so cool or whatever. Like they're so scary almost because like the weird robot Arnie face. Yes. So unnerving. It's so bizarre. And where he's like walking towards him. He looks like claymation. Yeah. It's a very weird visual. You mean when the skeleton is walking. Yeah. Yes. It's like stop motion.

Yeah. That's how they did that. Until they get to like the close ups. Then it's a puppet. But anytime it's full body it is just stop motion. That's how they did that. Until they get to the close-ups, then it's a puppet. But anytime it's full body, it is just stop motion. And they had the Arnie character get injured so that, because they could only animate that skeleton if it was dragging one foot. They couldn't have it walk like a person. So they have him get injured earlier. But it looks so, again, like it's like nightmarish the way the skeleton sort of like creepily sort of like shambles towards everyone.

It's also notable that we haven't really progressed with robot technology since then. Like the robots we make now look just as stupid as that one did when they actually tried. That's where we're getting to basically, right? It's like on the Mount Robomore. Like they kind of nailed it with this design. Like there are a couple important robots in film history, and then I don't know what the last important film robot was.

You know? WALL-E. Yeah. I mean, WALL-E's my favorite robot in recent film history, but also... Ex Machina is it. Oh, Ex Machina is probably the best robot design of the last 15 years. That's a pretty cool robot, because it's different. It's weird little

gel pods, and then sort of car probably the best robot design of the last 15 years. That's a pretty cool robot because it's different. It's like weird little like gel pods and then like sort of car chassis. And it's also it's like tackling the uncanny valley thing. It's having those two things exist simultaneously. Whereas Terminator it's like the metal skeleton or he's got the flesh

on it. And when it's just the pieces it's like a weird sort of thing. But like Ex Machina the beautiful thing is that like it's whirring behind a human face like you see the inner gears Wally's also like

sort of just an appliance which is like what I love about him he's not supposed to be human yeah he's like a kitchen thing but I do think it's like

he's the best Wally's like actually probably one of my like four or five best friends but I love Eve in that movie, too. Oh, that's a great robot.

Because she's so hot. Yeah, she's a hot robot. Yeah, she's a hottie. And she's mostly hot because her eyes go from the one shape to the other shape. And that's all the personality you need in a person. It's amazing. She's very sleek. She's very sleek.

It's very minimalist. It also is, she's hovering. It's sort of an eye-apple spoof. She's got four pieces. It's like her head and her body and the two arms, and they're connected just through magnets or whatever. They float. We don't think about it.

Yeah. God, robots are fucking great. Robots are good. I like robots. Robots are my favorite thing. Robits. Yeah, but they just nailed it. This is the best robot design of its kind.

And with every Terminator sequel, they've tried to like, is the best robot design of its kind and with every terminator sequel they've tried to like not the camera ones because i i think what they do with the t1000 is really smart but in uh terminators three through five uh they have tried to and even the sarah connor chronicles they've tried to like update or modify the basic endoskeleton and it always gets worse no yeah there's they they nailed it here and they've gone in both directions like they've tried to get more advanced and it gets worse and then they've tried to make it like the more primitive version and it gets worse like neither one is as interesting as this which is so primal and it is once again it's this uncanny valley

thing where it like looks so much like a machine and it also has all the basic tenets of like it is definitely skeletal yeah right but god it's so fucking good I forgot because Terminator 2 opens much like Terminator 1 does with the like

prologue where you see the future war stuff before we go to present day and like the first thing you see in that is a series of the endoskeletons

walking stomping on skulls stomping on skulls right they love the skull stomping yes look I just love the idea like where would they get all those skulls. They love the skull stomping. Look, I just love the idea.

Where would they get all those skulls? Somehow they've killed us all. Wally piles them up. Wally puts them all in a... You know what? Keep the skulls. We'll make all the streets out of skulls. They're great fertilizers. Wally scurries around.

It was a nuclear fallout and a lot of humans died in the nuclear fallout. Why would he just be lying around there waiting to decompose? So the robots piled them up for effectiveness to scare the rest of the remaining humans. Is there a femur pile somewhere? Do they ever step on them? There is a femur pile. Okay.

Of course. So you mean it's like a recycling plant? Oh, the spine yards over there. They're sectioning it all out. Spine yards down to the right half a mile. Take it down like a recycling plant. Oh, the Spine Yards over there. They're sectioning it all out. Spine Yards down to the right half a mile. Take it down the road, Bill. Wouldn't it be great if the Terminator was called Bill? Wait, he doesn't have a name, does he?

No, he's just the Terminator. I'll be Bill. Yeah. Oh, dear. Hey. Hey. Half a comedy point. Hey, guys.

Yeah? This future world? Yeah. Hey. Half a comedy point. Hey. Guys. Yeah.

This future world. Yeah. It reminded me a lot of like the kind of German expressionism films. You mean like the cabinet of Dr. Caligari over here? That was like the one smart thing I thought I could say. That's really smart. Thank you so much. Well, there's definitely an element of like his budget was, he was so restrained by his budget.

Small budget. Very small. He has to- The only small budget movie ever made, unless you're talking about County Piranha. But he had to use so much suggestion to make the world feel bigger than it is. So a lot of it's in angles and lighting. Yeah, there's two shots in that. You're correct about that.

Yeah, because he has to hit it from certain ways to infer that there is a lot more of what you're seeing happening outside of it. He goes closer in on the future war sequences than the rest of the movie which are more wide shots. Yeah. Because it's like he can afford to have like Michael Bean's head, a pile of skulls. Sure. And then like one robot thing.

And a dog. And some lasers. And then lasers and smoke. Yeah it looks like a laser tag arena. Love those lasers. It does look I feel like all laser tag arenas like took their aesthetic from the Terminator. Yeah. Because it's all like shredded clothes and like, well, there's a lot more day glow in laser tag. Yeah. So I'd take my comment

back. But tech noir looks pretty laser taggy. Tech noir. I love it. If that club existed now in New York, I would be there every night. It'd be a huge hit. It'd be a huge hit. They have that fucking fight club themed bar here and they just opened that Tim Burton bar. Why isn't someone opening Technoir? Someone needs to open Technoir. Maybe this is

our destiny. I do love it when she says I'm at Technoir and Paul Winfield's like, oh yeah, I know. I hate Technoir. Yeah, sure, I go every Tuesday. Taco Tuesdays? I love them at Technoir. Oh, they got great trivia. You talking about the tech trivia? It's such a lean movie.

We've actually covered every major plot beat because there's only four. I mean, it is such a lean. And a lot of it's silent chasing. And that's the thing. It's really a chase movie, you know? The thing I was going to say about the skeletons, I forgot that you don't see it until the end of the movie.

I forgot that they didn't foreshadow it in the future war sequences and they keep that totally off base. So the idea that you don't know what's fucking under there. The first time when you see his burning body and then you see the skull in silhouette underneath what you think he's done for. Yeah, that's cool.

And then starts to get up. He looks almost like a shot mannequin, basically. A lot of this podcast is an exercise in us playing dumb and pretending that. Yeah, this is the point. Trying to watch these movies. You were pretty new to it, right? Totally new.

Did you know when he was? I went in as an idiot. I mean, I knew, okay. You'd seen the skeleton in pop culture, sort of like. I knew he was a robot. Right. Did you know he was going to look like that skeleton, though? I don't think I had that exact image.

That's awesome. That is pretty cool. That's awesome. Because I feel like I had already seen, like, toys and shit before I watched. Sure. I don't know. It became an image. It's not, like, the most iconic. The most iconic image is know it became an image it's not like the most iconic

the most iconic image is the one I'd seen is like right after he takes out his eye the red eye that's what I know that's what I think of absolutely that is the main Terminator thing that's why I get back to this I know I already said this but like once again speaking to these ephemeral things that make movies great

that you can't control the fact that the robot Arnold head is so bad works in the movie's favor. It's true. It wouldn't work in 99% of movies. Like, they'll cut between real him from one angle

and then robot him from a different angle and they don't match at all. Yeah. But the robot him, like, does its job because it makes him a creepy robot man.

Yeah. Like, it sells that he's a creepy robot. Yeah, it does. Yeah. It's so cool. I just imagine watching this for the first time like knowing nothing and being like, why is he putting a knife into his eye?

Oh my God, because he's got a red robot eye. It is very, I was really, I don't like eye stuff. It's my least favorite thing in movies. I hate eyes. I really. But in Minority Report, that scene, I still can't watch it. Can't deal with it. Oh, eye stuff can really bug me.

Yeah, eye movie is. Eye shit's my biggest. And he takes his eye out. It's true. I can deal with it because it's not really his eye. I felt okay with it. Yeah, because I knew going in. I was like, it's fine.

It's like tinfoil under there. It's still a little gritty. Yeah, it's gold foil on his teeth. It's a little gritty. It's a little gritty. Trying to think of. Orion Films asked for Reese to have a canine dog.

A canine android dog like companion. Like Dinomut? Yeah. And James Cameron said no. That was like their only note. They're like you know what this film needs.

Looks good except for hmm. I also love if he had a six million dollar budget in 1984 a robot dog would have cost them three million million budget. In 1984, a robot dog would have cost them $3 million. Maybe it's just a regular dog, but he's like,

it's a robot. Two things could go through. A man and a dog. I'm trying to find some fun things about this movie. Instead of a dog, they should have done a lizard. Yeah, thank you.

That would be a good... If they they should have done a lizard. Yeah, thank you. Cyborg lizard. That would be like a good, if they ever wanted to make a Terminator sequel. What if Pugsley turned out to have been a robot lizard the whole time? Yeah, maybe he was planted there by Cyberdyne systems. There's no way to know. I'm saying Genesis with its like, let's go back to the first movie

and redo it from a different angle thing. My take on, my pitch for Terminator Genisys would have been Pugly's The Terminator. Yeah. Before Kyle or The Terminator get there, the lizard just starts, like, very meticulously, slowly killing her.

It's like when she isn't looking. It's like an 80 to 90 year process. Yeah, Pugly, like, His droppings are like obnoxious gas capsules, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's why he keeps escaping. He's trying to launch phase two. He pees in her water.

And Ginger's kind of on to him, but she can't explain why. But she can't hear herself because she's got headphones on. Poor Ginger. Poor Ginger. I like that they give Ginger a moment where she's like, it's Ginger, and they're like, yeah, Ginger didn't make it. Sorry, buddy. Iguana. I do love, can I just say something? The film was shot in Los Angeles. She's like, it's Ginger. And they're like, yeah, Ginger didn't make it. Sorry, buddy.

Iguana. I do love, can I just say something? The film was shot in Los Angeles. That's a little tidbit for you guys. All right. Believe it. Not to get back to the sex thing, because I know it's- No, go back to the sex thing. But I do like that, because it's a weird thing I've never seen ever.

What? That in the sex scene between Ginger and her shitty boyfriend, he is under her shirt. Wait, really? Yeah. Like his boyfriend he is under her shirt wait really yeah like his whole body is yeah yeah so she's wearing her shirt shirts were bigger back then it's like a tank top yeah but they're stretchy people like stretchy fabric it's like a stretchy loose tank top and she's got her headphones on that's the start of the sex scene and then you see him crawl up through the neck hole he also he's like stretching out. His whole body is in. He likes.

I don't know how I missed that. He likes that the Walkman song. I like that too. Where she like has to take it off for a second and she puts it back on. Like popping around. That seems like kind of a good way to do it. Yeah. One person listening.

Like what if you want to listen to different things? Fair enough. Yeah. It's like those silent raves that people go to. Who gets to decide the soundtrack. Yeah. Rick Rosovich. He was later in Top Gun.

Rick Rossovich. I got it. I keep thinking you're going to say something about Rick Ross. Really? I missed him in this. Rick Ross is in this movie playing the Terminator. He is Slider in Top Gun. Okay.

I have a good trivia fact here. Sure. Let me just. I mean, real trivia fact is Linda Hamilton sprained her ankle. Yeah. Before filming even started. So they had to move all the scenes of her running to the end of shooting. let me just I mean real trivia fact is Linda Hamilton sprained her ankle yeah before filming even started so they had to like move all the scenes of her running

to the end of shooting that's a lot of scenes that's a lot of running yeah a lot of running she does that covers a lot of territory like you would want to

structure that filming around location yeah I think she was in pain the whole time I think so too which works for the movie I'm not happy she was in pain but you know

sometimes artist suffering yeah go ahead general trivia spoiler alert Which works for the movie. I'm not happy, shoes and pain. But, you know, sometimes. Art is suffering, yeah. Go ahead. General trivia, spoiler alert. The smoke flowing out of the Terminator when it is crushed in the hydraulic press is actually cigarette smoke. So let's talk about this. What does that mean? Like they just lit a bunch of cigarettes?

Like they didn't have a smoke machine or something? That seems so inefficient. I'm picturing. Seriously. Cigarettes are expensive. Yeah. It's like 10 seems so inefficient. I'm picturing. Seriously. Cigarettes are expensive. Yeah. It's like 10 bucks a pack. And a secondhand smoke.

Not bad fit. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm picturing that like, well yeah, secondhand smoke. But I'm picturing, because there's so much like fog in this movie in different scenes that they use. I'm picturing that like in that scene, they have like five PAs, which have four cigarettes in their mouth.

Come on, boys. And they're right out of frame. And if suddenly the tip of the cigarette goes into frame, they're like, cut, reset. And they're just trying, because the smoke has to be close enough to the camera. I'm trying to remember the look of this smoke now. I have no idea. Don't stick with me. That is Cyberdyne systems where that happens.

That's what Terminator 2 establishes. But we'll get to that later. Yeah, I love it. Talk about another element that's cute in this movie where they're like, oh, the robots are going to kill us. When Kyle explains to her the Skynet system, she's like, that sounds weird that we'd let a computer do everything. Why would we do that?

So illogical. Why would I let my computer control my calendar? Does he say the Judgment Day is in 1991 or 2 or whatever? That's something I forgot about that I wanted to talk about. The timeline in this is nuts because in the opening it's 2029. So we have like 10 years before it all ends.

We're right on track. We're doing pretty well. We're getting there. We're doing great. Mountains of skulls. But then in their timeline it's like the nuclear wars have already started like decades ago. Yes. Judgment Day. So we would be been great. Mountains of skulls. But then in their timeline, it's like the nuclear wars have already started like decades ago. Yes. Judgment Day. So we would be dead already.

Oh, yeah. That's what I was trying to remember. Does he give a year? Because in Terminator 2, it's established like the world ends. I think it's 1999. I believe so. Oh, that's appropriate. It's like they install Skynet and everything's fine for like two weeks.

And Skynet like nukes the world. And John Connor's born, well, you know, around 84, 85 or whatever. So by 2020, whatever, he's, you know, he's like a grizzled guy in his 40s. Yeah. But Beanie is, how old do you think Michael Biehn is? In this movie? Yeah.

30. Late 30s? One. Early 30s? Late 30s? One. Early 30s? Late 30s? 30s. Born in 56. I can't do math.

He was 28. Oh, shit. Jeez Louise. Well, I guess he had some schmutz on him. Yeah. He had a fair amount of schmutz on him. Yeah. Can I-

Terminator? Yep. Because we already talked about people who are rumored to play the Terminator. It says here... Who knows how much of this is true? Sure. A lot of names get thrown in the pile. Although, you know, I've never read something that isn't true on my Amazon fire.

But it says Randy Quaid was considered for the role of Kyle Reese. Wow. Oh, a young Randy Quaid. Okay. Which, like, I mean... Yeah, fine. But then when you look at the picture that's included and it's like Burley Mountain Man, Randy Quaid. Starwackers, Randy Quaid.

Yeah. But people who were in contention for Sarah Connor, Debra Winger auditioned, got the role, later backed out of the film. Similarly feathered hair. Yes. But I think she had the role and then dropped out. Fair enough, fair enough.

She would have been fine. Gina Davis. I mean, Gina Davis. All the hits. Yeah, these are the great ladies, ladies. Daryl Hannah. Ladies, ladies. Another one.

Wow. Turned it down for Splash. Jennifer Jason Leigh. She would have been good, too. Considered too young for the part. Yeah, she's quite petite as well. And kind of baby face. Yeah.

Was then cast as Ginger, but replaced at the last minute for unknown reasons. Jennifer Jason Leigh would have killed two scenes as Ginger. She would have been great. She would have been great. Here's the one I find the most interesting, rumored to have been in contention for the role of Sarah Connor.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Whoa. Can you imagine that alternate reality? What had she done? Had she been on SNL? Yeah, she's on SNL. Yeah, she's been on SNL. That's like it. That would be a bizarre choice.

Could have been great. Could have been great. We'll never know. Could have been amazing. Could have been unbelievable. What a different world that is. Right? And Matt, like if Sarah Connor was funny.

I'm only into it if she then does Seinfeld as well. But that's the question. And you're like, Seinfeld's such a funny show. But you're right, she would have gone down a dark path. She wouldn't be the Julia that we know and love. It might be a worse world. And she might have married

James Cameron, which of course Linda Hamilton does. Yeah. James Cameron and Linda Hamilton have a baby a couple years after this movie. Is it his?

Around Terminator 2? Did they have sex? We'll never know. Well, we've speculated a lot about James Cameron's love life already. They had a baby and then got married like seven or eight years after that. No. We looked at the timeline. The timeline's weird.

No, no, no. They had a daughter when they were married. I don't know where this other baby's- We looked this up. I don't know what you're talking about. We looked this up. She was married to Bruce Abbott. Right. From 82 to 89. Uh-huh know what you're talking about. We looked this up. She was married to Bruce Abbott. Right.

From 82 to 89. Uh-huh. Who is an American actor. Right. And then she... Married to James Cameron in what year? He left her when she was pregnant with their son, Dalton. They have two kids.

Not nice, Bruce. Oh, dear. They have two kids. There's one daughter they had before they were married. I don't think so. By like four or five years. I think you're thinking of someone else because this only lists her as having two kids. I'm not going to get into this, but we went over this and I know I'm right about this.

Alright. She had Josephine with James Cameron, who she moved in with in 91 and they married in 97, divorced in 99. Thank you. That's my point. She was born in 1991. They got married in 1997. I thought you were saying two years after this movie. No.

You're just saying she was out of wedlock. Yes. You said two years after this movie. Whatever. That's what I was confused by. Guys, no one cares. I know. What?

It's true. I was so confused. I said in between this and whatever. Whatever. Whatever. No, but Tomb Raider 2 comes out in 91. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Yeah.

Go on. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Oh, I see. It's the score. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Go on. Dun, I see. It's the score. Go on. What's your point? No, that's my point. I don't know. I just think their relationship is interesting because they make these two Terminator films

seven years apart. They do. They have a child at one point. They don't get married for years after that. Then they get married, have another kid, almost immediately divorce. Yeah, but I don't know. I'd like to know more too because he marries Catherine Bigelow after marrying Galen Hurd who he made this

movie with. Then he divorces Catherine Bigelow. Then Linda Hamilton gets her dusty heart broken by Bruce Abbott, whoever this is, while she's pregnant. She moves in with Jim Cameron. It's crazy. It's like a

crazy soap opera. And then she's his muse. Right, and she's the one with him at the Oscars when he wins for Titanic, despite the fact that he met his next wife working on Titanic. He's just, he knows how to line him up. He doesn't want any downtime in between. He has no

spaces. This is an efficient man, as we said, goal oriented. The thing is, I've seen Susie Amos, who is his current wife, and he's been married to her for 16 years now, say, like, I think you were talking about it, he likes to go down to the bottom of the earth in his submarine. I wish he'd be happy, if you know what I mean.

Talk about efficient. She's like, you know, yeah yeah i'd rather he didn't go to the bottom of the earth in his submarine i like hanging out with him i'd rather he liked spending time with me but i get that he's got he's he's got to go to the bottom of the earth like that's james cameron it's gonna make him like i guess not be crazy and maybe it just took suzy amos to be the person to realize like you know what he's got he's got to just go in his submarine he's gotta do what jimmy's got some guys it's like ah you know like they gotta go take a walk i don't know he's gotta yeah i don't know but they seem to

have made it work after the last four did not yeah yeah what a guy what a guy james cameron arnold's first i'm just saying we'll be talking about him i want to know the story of poor dumped linda hamilton like pregnant and dumped by her husband, moving in with James Cameron. I'm interested in the whole thing. And then he's like, you're going to have this baby, then you're going to get super buff, and we're making Terminator 2. And you're going to be the crazy, buff action star of Terminator 2. I'm excited to watch it now. I feel like it was good to watch them in the right order.

It's totally good to watch them in the right order. It's totally good to watch them in the right order. If you watch them in the wrong order, it almost like her performance in one which is fine, almost seems a little pathetic because you're like, oh, why isn't she as cool as she is in Terminator 2? Yeah. The shock of it the other way is so good.

That's the other thing that sucks about the sequels past two is that she's not in them. Yeah, that's my biggest problem with the other one. Yeah. I mean, it just doesn't work. Yeah. What? You still mad about the kids?

No, I'm fine. It's a riddle. I'd love to figure it out. Yeah, you're pissed off. Guys, usually I get mad at Griffin. He's real mad at me. Can we do the box office? Oh, the box office is weird.

Because it wasn't way up there, right? No, it was number one. Oh, really? Yeah. So the movie made $38 million total in the United States. Was that a lot then? Adjusted to today, it's about $100 million. So it was a big hit for its budget, but it wasn't a huge hit. Huge on home video

and TV. It had a long tail. And there's seven years between the two movies. It came out in October. For a movie that came out in October, it did very well. That was the days when October was really the doldrums, as you will see by this weekend box office. I'm not going to ask you to guess. What was the opening weekend number for Terminator?

$4 million. Those were the days. The top two movies both made $4 million. The opening weekend was not a thing. It's cute days. The top two movies both made four million. It's like the opening weekend was not a thing. It's cute now. It's adorable. Okay, give me a hint for number two. It's an anthology film that cuts

together lots of different horror movies. I had never heard of this. What? Oh, I know exactly. Oh, fuck. I know what movie you're talking about. Okay, I've never heard of it. It's got a real lame title. It's literally a compilation of horror movies. It's a compilation of other horror movies.

It's like That's Entertainment with horror movies. Basically. And we're talking like 30s Dracula and Friday the 13th. It's like all horror movies. It's not called Coming At Ya, right? It's got something. I know the fucking movie you're talking about. Here it comes.

It's called Terror in the Isles. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I didn't know that that was a kind of movie you were allowed to make and release in theaters. I don't think you were allowed to make it anymore. But in a pre-TV, pre-internet era, hey, why not? There was a market for montage. Yeah, why not? There was the That's Entertainment.

The whole montage series. The That's Entertainment trilogy was. There were three of them. There were three movies. It was like the Now That's What I Call whole montage series. The That's Entertainment trilogy was. There were three of them. There were three movies. Now that's what I call music of movies. No, seriously. It really was. It was that but with musical numbers from other movie musicals.

It was like, let's just pick the best musical number from each one. And they made three of those. They were basically YouTube super cuts that were released in theaters and made tons of money. They also kind of did that with Looney Tunes where they would make theatrical movies where there was some loose narrative of like, Bugs Bunny sits on his patio and remembers his best adventures. And there's like 30 seconds of Bugs Bunny talking

and then you get all the best. So that was like a theatrically released movie. To me, this also suggests that Tear in the Isle, that it was a real horror movie moment in the mid 80s. So the Terminator's capitalizing on that. And it sort of transitions it into a different sphere. Number three is I would say Brian De Palma's

creepiest movie. And I mean creepy in the, like, what a pervert Brian De Palma is. Dressed to Kill? No. Nah, that's actually the creepiest. Fuck. It's his second creepiest movie. Body Dome? Yeah. I think it might be his creepiest. Those two are neck and neck.

It's the one with the relax sequence. Yeah. They frankly say relax sequence. Yeah. Number four is the second movie Sally Field won an Oscar for. Places in the Heart? Yes. All these movies made about two million dollars. The box office is so quaint. Yeah.

Yeah. The fifth movie is a movie produced by Jerry Bruckheimer and Don Simpson that I have never heard of, starring Stephen Bauer. You'll never guess that. Yeah, I'll never guess that. Beef of Hearts. That's a good title, though. It is a pretty good title. I want to see that.

It won the Razzie for worst musical score. Oh, never mind. I don't want to see that. It won the Razzie for worst musical score. Oh, never mind. I don't want to see it. Yeah. So, I mean, what an underwhelming box office, right? Yeah. I mean, you've got Teachers is in there, which is an Arthur Hiller movie with Nick Nolte. Good poster.

About Teachers. Apple with a dynamite wick. Yeah. Ghostbusters is still hanging around. Oh, the good old Ghostbusters. And it's 21st week. Oh, the boys in beige. Amadeus is in there. Yeah, it's no Ghostbusters is still hanging around Oh the good old Ghostbusters And it's 21st week Amadeus is in there Yeah it's no Ghostbusters

You know Amadeus was the same time 84 I believe Amadeus wins best picture that very year They're both at the bottom end of the box office But they're in there Then next year I'm born And the year after that I'm born and then the year after that I'm born

and then a couple more years I'm born how many weeks had Ghostbusters been released at that point 21 I mean that was the date you want to see Ghostbusters again don't worry it's still in theaters it's not going anywhere people want to see it

there's only one guy who can do that today, and it's James Cameron. Pretty much. That is true. Avatar and Titanic are the only two movies that have like- That last. Big Fat Greek Wedding was this weird anomalous thing because it took so long to pop. But those were movies that were in theaters forever and were just still playing. And this movie kind of had that.

It definitely lasted well into January. And did well overseas. Made $78 million worldwide. Very good for the time. For a tiny little harm, R-rated action movie. No name stars? I mean, Schwarzenegger's a name. Conan was big.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's it. But he wasn't a huge name. He was an action movie star., yeah, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't like a huge name. He was an action movie star. But I'll say this to you, okay? You imagine- You will? I'll say this to you, David.

I shall. Okay, go ahead. Imagine it's 1982. You see Conan. You go, that's great. We're talking about Conan the TV show. Yes. You see TBS as Conan.

Yes. No, I'm kidding. TBS as Conan. You see the original Conan the Barbarian. Sure, right. Right? And you're like, that's the movie that guy can be in. Is that what you're saying?

How else are you going to cast that fucking guy? Right, right. He's huge. He's all pecs. He can barely speak English. That's the thing. It's like, what's the lateral move for this guy? You know?

I'd say Governor of California. Right, right. It took a while for us to get there. First male pregnancy movie with Emma Thompson. Oh, my God. I love that movie. It's so good. We're going to talk a lot about the Schwarzenegger career as the series goes on because we check

in at important points. No, can we just talk about Junior? Let's talk about Junior right now. I've never seen Junior. Are you serious? Yeah. Oh my God. It's nuts.

It seems nuts. I just want to point out, Ivan Reitmanman director of Ghostbusters and Draft Day and Draft Day a movie that you starred in yes that is correct I was the lead character in Draft Day you were kind of

the Terminator of Draft Day I was if a Terminator was not trying to kill someone and just trying to spill coffee great

15 comedy points whatever I don't know who fucking gives a shit what I was gonna say is you're so mad at me about the kid Ivan Reitman

directed three Arnold Schwarzenegger comedies so we got twins wow you have Kindergarten Cop oh he directed

Kindergarten Cop and Junior and Junior and Junior was the one where they were like I think we're I think we're done I think we might have

exhausted this but just like most action guys like that make like one comedy every 10 years. Yeah, it's like The Rock making The Pacifier. Right. Like he's not going to make, I mean not The Rock, Vin Diesel.

Vin Diesel or The Rock did like Tooth Fairy. The Rock's done a few. Right. He did Tooth Fairy. But like usually they- He did the one where the joke, the premise is that he's a football player and he has to have a daughter.

The game plan, because that wasn't part of his plan. That's the whole concept usually those guys know when to take their foot off the gas right and schwarzenegger did like seven he did so many comedies that reitman alone directed three of them like that's my point it wasn't like i'll only do comedies with right like he he was like hey ivan it's been two comedies since I did a comedy with you. Make another comedy with me. I think he really liked doing comedies.

He's also in Dave. He's in four Ivan Reitman movies. He's in Dave? Yeah, he plays Arnold Schwarzenegger. There's a scene where Dave meets with Arnold Schwarzenegger

because Arnold Schwarzenegger is trying to teach children in America to speak healthier. He's trying to fight obesity. And he goes, President, obesity,

I was going to say President Dave, but the whole... Yeah, wait, what happened to fight obesity. And he goes, President, the obesity... I was going to say President Dave, but the whole... Yeah, wait, what happened to the impression here? The whole hook of the movie is that he doesn't know he's Dave.

You are Dave, the president. He sounds like an Italian man. What are you talking about? It's a dead-on impression. I'll make you a piece of pie. It was pretty good before. That's what's weird. It was a dead on impression. I'll make you a piece of pie. It was pretty good before.

That's what's weird. It was good a minute ago. Look at all the Italian guys with a really low IQ. Some spaghetti with garlic. What do you want? Some spaghetti? I'll make you a nice spaghetti with basil. What are some other comedies he's in?

I'll be back. What's the one with... Jingle All The Way. Jingle All The Way, that's right. Kindergarten Cop. What's the one with Belushi? Red Heat. Red Heat. Yeah, that's right. Kindergarten Cop. What's the one with Belushi? Red Heat. Red Heat, yeah, that's right.

Red Dawn is Red Dawn. And then even True Lies is pretty funny. And Last Action Hero is definitely a comedy. What do you think of Schwarzenegger, Rachel? I don't know. Not a big Schwarzenegger. I don't know. I've seen a few of his films.

What have you seen? Well, you've seen Junior. Yeah. Not a big Schwarzenegger. I don't know. Yeah, I've seen a few of his films. What have you seen? Well, you've seen Junior. Yeah. You saw the shit out of Junior, it seems. Honestly, that's like the only one I really retain. Not Kindergarten Cop? No. Because I feel like Kindergarten Cop was big for our age.

I think Junior might be my main Schwarzenegger impression, which is nuts. But, like, yeah. I'm pregnant with a baby. It's great. It's a great movie. Is it? Yes, I need to watch it. Does he have the baby. It's great. It's a great movie. Is it? Yes, I need to watch it. Does he have the baby?

I think so. I can't remember. I'll watch it with you. It involves Danny DeVito. I'll watch it junior. Does he give birth today to Danny DeVito? No. He has the baby.

I think he has the baby. He has the baby. I'll have a junior viewing party with Rachel and Griffin if you want to attend. I can't wait. We could do a Reitman-series someday. I don't know. I feel like we'll, I mean, no offense to Ivan Reitman, but we'll be scraping the barrel. I don't know.

But, you know, I definitely, like, I didn't see the Terminator films since I was older, so mostly I had seen, like, fucking Batman and Robin and, like, the comedies. And I was like, who the fuck is this guy? Like, you know, he's like. Yeah, he's weird to meet in the context of him mocking his original starting right if you don't have a context for it yeah it's very odd and all those comedies like other than twins like junior especially sets him up as like an everyman yeah yeah like any movie twins the joke is he's so big and handsome or whatever like you know, built.

It's, oh, wow, you wouldn't imagine. In Kindergarten Cop, it doesn't have to be a six-foot Austrian, but it is he's a cop. But he's in Kindergarten Cop. Right. There you go. You know what I'm saying? They could have cast Bill Murray in Kindergarten Cop, and apparently Reitman wanted to cast Bill Murray. Bill Murray would have been great in Kindergarten Cop because they just have to be mean to kids.

Right. The Bill Murray version, the focus would be on the kid interaction. Right. The Schwarzenegger version, the focus is on he's a serious cop. And he's big. Right. And you're sort of making fun of action movie cops more than real life cops. Right.

But then when you get to Junior, like if you're casting. He's just like, oh, life is a fertility doctor. He's a hot day. If you get to a point where Arnold Schwarzenegger is playing a part that could just as easily be played by Kevin Kline, you've gone wrong somewhere. It's true. Where does the baby go? He doesn't have a uterus. What baby?

In Junior. They manufacture one for him. It's about the miracles of science. I think they make a uterus. Yeah. I mean, this movie should end with the FDA raiding them and them all being thrown in jail. Yeah, it wasn't legal. You know how the movie ends, right?

How? Pees out the baby. Just pees it out? It's just like a kidney stone? Pees it out the baby. It takes a long time, but he pees it out. So that's our thoughts on The Terminator. Yeah, very concise, very focused.

Do you think that Polaroid was worth $4? Well, considering, I mean, that it saved her life. We don't know what the exchange rate was then. Oh, was it pesos? I thought it was $4 American dollars. Maybe it was American dollars. I don't know where the gas station was. It looked like American dollars.

Well, in T2, she has this hangout in Mexico. Spoilers, but yeah. It could have been in Texas. And it could have been. But I feel like the movie Is in T2 Referencing that final scene Where at least She's on the border

She's heading out of America Yeah But you know Four dollars That photo saves her life That photo saves The future of humanity It saves the future of humanity

And it made Kyle Fall deeply in love with her From the future It's just a bargain I paid five I love the idea That that little kid Snapping a Polaroid

Is snapping Argu arguably the most important picture ever taken in human history. It's all on him. And if he had asked for a little more, she might not have- It's true. He might not have been able to hustle the money out of her. Or if the lighting had been weird. So many things could have gone wrong.

Hey, look, the Terminator series is about nothing if not that our futures are not written. The vicissitudes of fate. They are what we make of them. Harlan Ellison sued and was- Oh, yeah, this is a big thing. Even though they gave him a little tip of the hat. That happened later. That's part of the settlement.

I think that was at its home video releases because he claims that a lot of the concepts were taken wholesale from stories of his. He liked the movie, though. There was a long lawsuit. Cameron has a history of lawsuits for his property. Yeah, which is not uncommon when you are an incredibly successful filmmaker. There are two elements.

One is that he makes more money than anyone else, and two is that he makes very primal, basic stories, and they're how he tells them. I'm sure he sees things and is like, ooh, let me, let me take that idea and, like, turn it into something. I don't know. Hey, Tom Petty's been sued a ton of times. And Tom Petty has sued a bunch of times, too. He sued Sam Smith.

Yeah. He won. Yeah. It's a similar kind of thing. He sued Sam Smith? Yeah. Because he used to always complain that people would sue him and be like, oh, music sounds the same. There are only so many tunes.

And then he was like, hey, Sam Smith, that sounds like. Sounds like my tune. Which tune? Won't back down. Oh, really? Won't back down. Sounds like stay with me. Oh, I suppose it does.

I like how you make Sam Smith sound like he's like Elvis. Yeah. I'll be back. I think my Sam Smith is a ghost. Well, yeah. Stay with me. Watch me. Right, but that's very cynical of Tom.

Like, he knows how it works. He knows it wasn't on purpose. There's only so many chord progressions. He's just trying to get his money. Yeah. Maybe Tom Petty wanted to, like, add a wing to his Florida estate. I don't know. Either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.

Yeah. Tom Petty it's a cautionary tale Harlan Ellison yeah he sued gets credit I just remember there was like a thing

where like someone sued after Finding Nemo was like the 7th highest grossing film of all time and someone was like hey I pitched a cartoon movie about fish to Disney

it's like right that's why the movie was successful because it was about doing a cartoon with fish fish of course right right there was just one of these lawsuits just happened the movie was successful because it was about doing a cartoon with fish of course right right

there was just one of these lawsuits just happened I can't remember what it was now it was like a really big deal oh Beyonce

oh really somebody sued Beyonce over lemonade over the visual elements I've been making lemonade and selling it on my porch for years and like trying

I got a lemonade stand I've been doing it since I was five and like trying to take it to court and lost. Like, you know, I just feel like, you know, the bigger your thing is, the bigger the target on your back.

But he probably totally ripped off Harlan Ellison. Right. I mean, like both things are true. Yeah. But also like robots and time travel. I mean, you know, there are specific enough ideas here. It's just funny because the movie is such a big footprint, you know, on how we think about robots.

And that's what people really get mad about it's not that you stole their idea it's that like you did it and everyone liked yours better they did better it is true

right yeah it's not like anyone sees a robot thing now and they're like I like how you say robot we're just gonna do that from now on

we're gonna say robot that's good and it's like oh this looks like a real Harlan Allison jam like I love it yeah okay

well this has been our Terminator 2. How mad at me are you about the babies? About the Cameron babies? Rachel, how mad are you at me? I'm having a great time. That's good. I'm glad you had a great time. Delighted to be here. Thank you so much for being here. Is there anything you want to plug? This is Rachel's first podcast appearance. Really? I have never

been on a podcast. Which is crazy because she works for BuzzFeed. They have lots of nice podcasts. I know. It's true. We have great podcasts. I could plug those another round, for example. You may know. It's a great one. Yeah, I don't have anything personal to plug. I don't know. Go to BuzzFeed.

Read the reader section. There's lots of great culture coverage that you may enjoy. Twitter. People can follow you on Twitter. Heck yeah. I'm Rachel Y. Sanders. Rachel. Rachel and I.

People see that and they think my name is like Rachel-y, but it's just my middle initial. Or that it's like a Spanish surname, like Raquel Y. Sanders, but neither is true, in fact. Wait, what is W-H-Y? No. Rachel Y. Just the letter. Just the one letter. Okay.

What is your middle name? Do you really want me to go into it? Is this going to be in the podcast? I can do it. That's the thing. Before I was like, oh, she's going to say Yvette or something. And now I'm like, wait a second. No, it just sounds stupid.

No, but see, Rachel, you're a good storyteller. Because if you had said it's a long story, I wouldn't have pressed. But by you saying, do you really want to get into it? I'm like, well, now. Jesus. You're nagging us. It's not like a deep, dark secret. It's just slightly unusual.

My middle name is Yarnall. Okay. Y-A-R-N-A-L-L. It's my mother's maiden name. It's a maiden name. So in fact, both my brother and some of my cousins have the same middle name I do. There's a lot of little Yarnalls running around. It's a good, it's a nice word.

I think it's fine. The problem was that like in elementary school, if you said that out loud, kids would be like, Yarnall. Yeah. So I sort kids would be like, you're Arnold. Yeah. So I sort of learned to like be ashamed of it. Did you get like a bump when Hey Arnold came out? That must have helped you a little bit, right? No.

Hey Arnold. No. I didn't like watch normal TV shows. I didn't watch that. You watched The Simpsons. I didn't have cable. You watched The Simpsons. I watched The Simpsons.

Yeah, that was the one. Hey Arnold was a cable jam. That is true. That is true. That is true. So you couldn't watch the more cynical shows? Like Rocker's Learn Life or Sprint and Stimpy or Rugrats. Exactly. Rugrats is so uncynical.

I know. It assumes that children are smarter than they are. It's almost hopeful. Like whatever it was, like eighth or ninth birthday, I cash in my chip and I go like, Mom, let me watch one episode of Rugrats. And she watches it with me and she's like, oh, this is a show about talking babies? I've been telling you this for years! Why do you think all these other kids watch it?

Did you ever watch Rugrats? I was like, seeing an episode because I haven't lived under a rock, but that was the extent of it. Remember the dad with the purple hair? Yeah. Sure. Stew pickles? Really sexy. Really sexy? Excuse me. You have a stew pickles fetish? I think he's hot.

I think he could get it. I used to think Angelica's mom was hot. I don't know, guys. I've got this picture of him making breakfast. Look how fucking hot he is. No! I think you think he's hot because he looks like you. He's got stubble and he looks tired.

And he's sort of world weary. He's got a lot of thoughts in his head, but he can't. And he's sort of world weary. He's kind of washed out. That's what I look like. He's got a lot of thoughts in his head, but he can't really. This is a cartoon where, and maybe that's the thing, because we're talking about people being too hot these days. This is a weird little couple. Yeah. Both him and the, what's the mother's name? Dee Dee?

Dee Dee, yes. Dee Dee Petals. She looks crazy too. She's got a triangle hair and I don't know. I love how crazy everyone looks in 90s cartoons. And then her parents are like Eastern European. Yeah, that's the other thing. Those 90s Nicktoons are real Jewish.

Yeah. Because Hey Arnold has a lot of Jews too. Yeah. It's a golden age. They all should. Your Arnold Schwarzenegger impression is like a Hey Arnold character. Hey, it's like a Arnold character. Can you do it again?

Hey Arnold. Call it the football head. I like how this is devolving. I think by the end of this miniseries, I'm going to have an amazing original character that started out as Arnold Schwarzenegger. It'll be great. You'll spin it off and you'll never see Mike Jack again. You're just going to leave me in the dust

with a new hot new original character. It'll be called Hey Yarnel. With Yarnel. You're welcome for that. Can I use Yarnel? Can I call him Yarnel? Yeah, you can license it. I'll sue you later though

Yarnle's gonna be a bit like in the last episode or three episodes ago now cause we're all out of whack we had the bucket yes so Yarnle is something now that's a thing now

Yarnle oh do you have a burger report I'm so proud what does that mean yeah Rachel hasn't listened enough to the episodes we have burgers have you seen a famous person

eat a burger Jesus I really struggled with the burger no you've never seen a famous person eat a burger? Jesus, I really struggled with the burger. No. You've never seen a famous person eating a burger? At a restaurant that I was at?

No, just in any context. Eating a burger. Like in a movie? No. Had to be in real life. IRL. I really don't think so. I don't think we're ever going to top your burger report. The last one? I nailed it. I wrote one fifth of a song. It was great. He saw Lin-Manuel Miranda eating a burger

And I rapped about it a little Kinda Oh no And I was really annoyed But it was great In retrospect it was wonderful Alright I was like on a plane

Breaking down the song beat by beat And I was like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna write every single word To fit this burger report And then I fell asleep on the plane And forgot about it Until we were in the studio So you had like

A napkin size of a wrap. I had the first chunk. We're talking about this because we did this ages ago but this episode aired last week I believe for our listeners. I think that episode won't air for another two years. Alright.

Rachel it was wonderful to have you on. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for making me watch this movie. Hey, you're welcome. It's great. I feel great. We got to watch T2. Yeah.

Can we watch it? Yeah. Can we like- Let's do it. Yeah, have a T2 viewing party? Absolutely. Because I love watching T2 with a new T2-er. I'm so excited to watch T2.

T2 and Junior double feature. Yeah. Because I need to watch T2. And yeah, then fine. Yeah, for the podcast. We'll watch Junior. Yes, you need to watch it. Can we do a Junior episode?

Ben, do you like Junior? Yeah. I think that need to watch it. Can we do a Junior episode? Ben, do you like Junior? Yeah. I think that's a random podcast. Next week we'll be back with Aliens. He was like smacking. He was like. Yeah. Next week we'll be back with Aliens.

We may or may not have a guest. I don't know. No, we have a guest. We do? Well, let's not say it yet. Oh, we won't say it. No, no, we have a guest. She's excited.

It's a great film. I enjoyed watching it recently. Awesome. Aliens, man. I'm so excited to watch Aliens. We did Cameron Crowe. It was such a nightmare. This is great.

This is going to be a great miniseries. We got some great guests coming up. We got some great movies coming up, so keep on- What is this? Drive Time Radio? Listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Remember, the first four callers get a free blank check bucket.

Remember to download our TapTap game. Gems are 90% off for the next four days. And as always, cut. What are you going to do? Well, I... Because I'll be back is not easy. Griffin usually says the lamest line possible to begin the episode what i was trying to pull up was that whatever the q line is into i'll be back

but i can't fucking find it and i was trying to pull it when he's at the police station it's just the guy is just like i can't come in here i don't know right but i want to get the wording right she's filling on a report right so i got I got... What about Michael Biehn's crazy rant where he's like, he's going to pull her heart out! I got two options. Just bang the table. I got two options I like. And put all this

at the end of the episode. One of them requires... Okay. An alley-oop. One of them requires you to give me a hue line. One of them is long. I'll let you pick

which is the lesser of two. What do we mean by long? Do the short one. Yeah, do the short one. This has been a UCB comedy production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.