Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Thomas Crown Affair (1999) with Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: April 7, 2024

A Fiji water bottle. “Sinnerman” by Nina Simone. That Magritte painting with the bowler hat. A SCINTILLATING, AGE-APPROPRIATE ROMANCE WITH TWO OF THE GREATEST HEIST SEQUENCES IN MOVIE HISTORY. We���re talking Tommy C (1999), baby! The delightful Amanda Dobbins joins us for her long-awaited Blank Check debut, and this episode is about as fun as you’d expect. Do we think this movie is better than the Norman Jewison original? Yes. Do we go long on the filmography of Rene Russo? Yes. Do we explain how Pierce Brosnan fit the Monet canvas into his briefcase? Sort of. Does Amanda know the plot of “Wicked”? Surprisingly, no! This episode is sponsored by: ExpressVPN (ExpressVPN.com/check) MUBI (mubi.com/blankcheck) Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blackjack with Griffin and David Blackjack with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blackjack Regret is usually a waste of time, as is podcasting. Good, good, sure. I mean, very true. I was saying right before we started, I have a horse voice today, which means I'm already like 50% of the way to a Pierce vocally. Although I feel like he's less horse.

This is his, um, this is when he's a little butterier. Right. He hasn't entered his horse era in 1999. Nobody does have little... I mean, I'm doing full horse-ness. Yeah. He's throaty. There's the whisper.

There's sort of Pierce whisper, kind of. You're making him sound like Anthony Hopkins, though. I have limited range here. There's only so much I can do. I was telling you, I just did fucking five Watto shows in a row. And I'm feeling it. Oh boy. There's only so much one Manchurian Watto in the span of one week. I agree.

I agree. Yes. Thank you for your Pierce Brosnan, Griffin. Thank you. Wow. This is weird. This is a weird vibe, Griff. With my voice?

In different places. No. Oh, different. Your voice is always fucked up. Well, this is a b-coastal record. Woo! And sometimes when that happens, it's because you and I and Ben are in one studio, and we have a guest who's in a different city, and thus there are two Zooms, and that's the division.

Blank check on one side, other guests on the other side. Not today! Not today! Not today. That's you, that's my Pierce. Today, David Holm. Ben Holm. Correct. Griff and guest in studio in Los Angeles.

Wow. In the battleship. Hollywood. You guys look like you're broadcasting from the Red October. I was gonna say Red October, yes. Coming live from the Red October. Can I just tell you guys, so... Please, please.

The other day, we were doing a big picture and... Mm-hmm. Lucky thing for you to do. Sure, and I'm afraid, I'm sad to say, I think it was about the film Argyle and a shot from the film Argyle. Just quickly, Amanda, before you go any further, don't let the cat out of the bag. Okay, no secret. Please don't.

Good joke, yeah. Thank you. It's just you know the secret now, so don't let the cat out of the bag. I'm not going to tell anyone. No spoilers, and I'm really sorry if knowing that there is a ship at some point in Argyle spoils the movie. God damn it.

But anyway, we were talking about the ship, and I was like, you know, there's that one shot, yada yada. And then, and then I realized midway through that it was that was actually a shot I was remembering from Hunt for Red October, which I had recently watched in order to get into the McTiernan vibe. So you know, I guess that was probably giving Matthew Vaughn too much credit, but great, great movie. Argyle, a movie so compelling that in real time while watching it, you start editing

footage from other better films. Great movie. Argyle, a movie so compelling that in real time while watching it, you start editing footage from other better films. I will say this, Griff, you haven't seen Argyle, right? No, I lack the ability to let the cat out of the bag because I do not yet know the secret. Right, cat remains in the bag for you. That having been said, I guess the secret and everyone's confirmed to me

that I guessed it correctly. Go on, David. You did guess it correctly. I was there when you first debuted your guest. Thank you. That movie has many twists. It literally does treat the reveal that they are on a boat as one of its many twists. It's a very annoying movie.

Oh, that's right. We're like, where are we? What is this? Wait! Okay, so they do like, they go from like the... What do you call the undercarriage of a boat? Like they go from below deck, below deck. Sorry, Steven Soderbergh. Impressive.

They go from below deck. And there is a shot where they like zoom out, right? To the CGI boat, which is not that different from one of that, that opening hunt for Red October shot, right? Where it's, you start with Brasad and then you see the entire, what's the boat called? Red October. It's Red October shot, right? Where it's, you start with Brosident and then you see the entire, what's the boat called? Red October.

It's Red October. By the way, this is going wild. This is going wild. Good job. I made the exact same mistake in our Red October episode where I was literally snapping my fingers and going, what's the fucking name? What's the boat?

What's it called? I'm sort of hunting for a title here. I can't think of what it might be. I did that like an hour and a half into our episode. So you guys are going recording kind of chronologically for this one? Semi. I mean, it's always guest-dependent.

OK. And this also, you were here in Los Angeles. Yes, but you know what? A couple of the late ones we recorded very early for just because of people being in town and whatever. This is being recorded second to last. Third to last? Third to last. Third to last. third to last, third to last.

Oh, good, okay. So we're in a late McTiernan mindset largely. Wow, I mean, that's a special place to be. It's a special. Have you done any of the bonus material and or rollerball and or? We've done rollerball and we touched on the legalities surrounding that movie or lack thereof.

And we are devoting an entire Patreon episode we touched on the legalities surrounding that movie or lack thereof. Right. And we are devoting an entire Patreon episode to the crimes of Anthony Pelicano. Sure. Yeah. Because it was too much context to just tack onto another episode. Yeah, absolutely. So we're using Sin Eater, the Hulu documentary. Okay, so, but you haven't done that yet.

But so, like, mentally, you're, you're, like, really right in the chronology vibe for Thomas Crown Affair. Basically, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We've sort of, we've done the Rollerball episode, so we've set up that that's where the problems begin. Sure. And then we haven't done the crime episode yet, and we haven't done basic, which is obviously the total fallout of everything. Right. But this is, I think we've been looking forward to this being pinned on our calendar at a later date

Because it's like one last breath of like positive air in the narrative. Amen. What's this podcast Griffin? This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography's directors Who experience massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank tracks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want and Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce baby

I don't think I've ever clocked how much I use my full register of pitch in this intro Right for the right I'm feeling myself like going outside a range Anyway, some of those directors end up going to federal prison, but not today. It's at this point in 1999 It's not even a glimpse in his eye. This is a mini-series on the films of John McTiernan, legendary action movie director and ex-convict. Today we're talking about his last great film, right? Although we get to watch Basic, which some people defend.

Yeah, but I would say his last sort of out-and-out, well-received hit. This is his last sort of out and out, well received hit. Yes, this is his last triumph. Let's put it that way. In all areas, it's like audiences loved it, critics loved it, it was a hit. There is a reason he on spec wrote a sequel to this movie in prison. He wasn't going to sit down and write a basic sequel in prison. Is that script available anywhere? I'd love to read it. John.McTiernan at gmail.com. basic sequel in prison. Is that script available anywhere? I'd love to read it. John.McTiernan at gmail.com. I'd love to make it.

Do you need a producer, John? I have no experience or money. It's unfortunately, I believe the one copy is in the prison library. You have to go and check it out. Yeah, he tucked it behind a poster of, I don't know, whatever. I mean, we will get to the 25 years of how do you follow up this movie question

as MGM has debated how to turn Thomas Crown into a modern franchise or keep it afloat. But yes, this is his last proper triumph. It is fascinating because it is coming out in theaters 10 days after his biggest flop up until that point in time. That is true, that is true. Amanda, did you know that this came out the same year as the 13th Warrior? I did know that it was the same year. I confess I didn't know that it was 10 days after.

No, no, Griff. No, it's three weeks before, Griff. It's the other way around. This is beginning of August and 13th Warrior's end of August. Right. That's right. That's right. That's right. And that's why this is posting before 13th Warrior. So 13th Warrior, they knew they had something bad on their hands and they just stuck it to float on Thomas Crowne. And he had shot it like two years before Thomas Crowne began production? That sounds right. Certainly he made it before.

Yeah, that episode we did record five years ago. We did and yeah, yeah, we did. David Lowery is on it. Spoiler alert. Oh wow. It's next week's app and he was in town. But the timeline on these two movies is hard to keep track of.

Right. But it is that fascinating phenomenon where he just knows he has a turkey incoming. He spent like three years on a movie that no one can salv just knows he has a turkey incoming. He spent like three years on a movie that no one can salvage and that has to some degree been taken away from him. And he successfully pulls off the ultimate heist, which is put a hit in theaters before my last bomb comes out.

Right. And just completely distract. Yeah, distract. Right. He's putting a thousand guys in bowler hats and long jackets in the multiplex to distract from the turkey that is 13th Warrior. Griffin, introduce our guest and then I have very boring gossip that I just got.

That I want to share with you guys. About this movie or just about our lives? No, no, about movies. Oh, great. It's very boring. Our guest today, I will say, is one of the guests I have been most excited to have on. You're very kind. In a very long time.

Yes. Because I, big picture, a podcast I would jump in and out of, listen to topical episodes. Last summer, our friend Alex Ross Perry said, you need to listen to Sean's mental breakdown over FastX. Which I did. We're sitting right here, Griffin. That's the chair? Yes, this is the chair.

The seat of shame. We should put a plaque on it. I found it cathartic. Listen to that episode. It felt like I was, like I'd found an AA meeting where I could relate to other people with similar stories. And since then, Big Picture's been top of my podcast rotation. You're very kind. I've gotten fully Big Pick-pilled.

But on top of that, I just want to say, card carrying for life Dob Mob member. Thank you so much. Thank you. Amanda Dobbins is here for the first time, not the last. Longtime listener, first time caller. I have been waiting my whole life to podcast about the Thomas Crown affair. This is the thing.

Parentheses 1999. Amanda, the first conversation we ever had, I believe, was about this movie. Which was like eight years ago, was about this movie. I really do feel I'm glad that this is the first time I'm on Link Check because it's like I have been training, this is what it's all been building towards, is figuring out what the fuck happened

with the painting fitting into the briefcase. And is there a spanner? And you know, actually we know, but you know, I'm ready to break it down. No, like six or seven months ago I say to David, like getting Amanda on is top priority. We need to find a place for Amanda. And I would sometimes say like,

what do we have coming up? What can we pitch to Amanda? And he would go, I don't think those are the right options. And when we finally settled on, fuck it, it's time to do McTiernan, he looked at me and he went, you know what this means. Yeah.

We can get a man. Here we are. Thomas Crown is the easiest booking of all time. That's the ask. I'm glad we saved it. We just texted you McTiernan and you replied Thomas Crown Affair. Yeah, no, I knew instantly.

I think you said Thomas Crown, let's go. Yeah, well it's also, and I do also, you guys have a very committed and active Reddit community, which is very lovely, but I like, oh, sorry, is that, I've faced you nice. Are they not nice? They're nice enough. They're fine. Okay, anyway. We just don't want to encourage them necessarily.

That's true. But it's fine. I also don't want them to think that I'm like actually spending a lot of time on their reddit, you know, but Okay, great. That's not even in a derogatory sort of way. That's just not how I'm in a dominant spending my time But I I think I mentioned that I would be coming on blank check like six months ago. Yes at like minute 93 of the big picture which is already embarrassing that we're getting to minute 93. Our show gets to fucking minute 1000. You have nothing to apologize for. And they sploosed it out like that. You hadn't even announced McTiernan. Which was I, I felt really seen and so and I think maybe that's why I feel warmly towards the community,

you know, because they knew immediately. The sound, uh, we all made when you invoked them, the reason why is a recent champagne problem we have been butting up against is we reach out to someone we would love to have on the show and offer them a movie we know they like and their response is, I don't think I'm enough of an expert, I'm worried about the Reddit getting angry at me. Ignore them. We've had hyper qualified people say, bar too high with Reddit response. Wow. I would say to those people,

they just got to keep living their lives. I would say the same thing? That's what I have to say. I would say the same thing, but you are. I don't think anyone's questioning your bona fides for this episode. I do feel I'm the subject matter expert. Yes.

On this film and maybe anything having to do with Sofia Coppola outside of her films. I'm pretty good on those films. Sofia, the personal life. But I'm the leading expert on Sofia Coppola, the person. Sure. And the Thomas Crown Affair, parentheses, 1999. I would say too that like, I consider you perhaps leading expert on Thomas Crown Affair, parentheses, 1999. I would say too that like, I consider you perhaps leading expert on Thomas Crown Affair, parentheses, 1999, but also all these sub-subjects within this film.

Oh, thank you so much. You're at least on the board of experts. Thank you. That's great. That's a good place to be. I'm looking to be on more boards in the future. That's just a nice check that you get every once in a while to show up and sit through a PowerPoint presentation. So anybody needs me, I'm available. Was this like an opening weekend, 1999 theaters movie for you? When did you get Tommy Pilled?

Certainly that summer. And this is essentially my birthday week, maybe the week after I'm an August Leo. So I would have been turning. You're a Leo, you're a Leo. Yeah, I sure am. There's no denying it. You exude it, you exude it, yeah.

So I would have been turning 15 years old. Okay. So the real question there is, could I get to the mall opening weekend? Or like when was I being dropped off at the mall? It's also, it's rated R, it's a rated R movie. Yeah, oh, that's a good point. So were you sneaking in? And through it, it's rated R. It's a rated R movie. Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. So were you sneaking in?

And through it, it earns it in a nice way. Yes, yes. I'm, maybe I watched it at home then. Okay. Now that I think about it because- Yeah, I'm seeing here the MPA rated it R for boobs and art theft. Yeah.

So that's on the poster there. I look forward to talking about Renee Russo's absolutely spectacular breasts. I mean, I'm glad that you are the poster there. I look forward to talking about Renee Russo's absolutely spectacular breasts. I mean, I'm glad that you were the one. Which are a part of the artwork of this film. Of course. You know, the story goes that this was the first time

that she really did that level of nudity. Yeah. Because she was in her mid-40s and she's like, I want it on record. I don't know whether that's actually true. I haven't spoken with Renee Russo to confirm it, but I am glad that it's on the record and she should be as well. I remember when this movie came out, people being surprised that she did nudity

and then also being like, fucking good on her. I get it. You know, Griffin, Griffin, it was more than that. It was like a one New York Times, like lower section. It was like a huge story like a woman in her 40s is taking her clothes off in a film. And it's getting a wide release. This isn't some sort of museum exhibit for strange people. And also like Siskel and Ebert are giving the nudity

specifically to thumbs up. I mean, the 90s, the biggest thing that happened nudity-wise in the 90s was Sibulwitz's butt on NYPD. Agreed. Hard to grip. Do you remember this? Like, do you remember where you were? And I wasn't old enough to watch NYPD Blue, but it's just like when they showed Dennis Franz's bare ass on network TV, it was like the entire world stopped.

And then number two was Renee Russo over the age of 40, taking her top off multiple times. By the way, I mean, that's the other thing. She's like doing the sex scene, but she's also at the beach. She's got that incredible mesh dress at the gala. The mesh, look, oh my God, look. I'm, look, I've already set aside half an hour for obviously talking about weary cuck Dennis Leary.

There's half an hour right for Rene Russo's rack. That's not a problem. And by the way, Amanda, thank you for being the one to pin that on the cork board. I understand that you guys couldn't totally... We want to talk about it. But you have to introduce the subject. But I do feel that these... They were purposefully and willfully included as a special effect

in the Thomas Crown affair, you know? Like, she was a part of it. It's not exploitative. And if that's wrong, then I apologize to Renee Russo, and I just want her to know that she looks great, but I'm sorry, it was uncomfortable. But it seems like she was in on it. I think she was in on it, absolutely. And she, from what I remember of the press at the time,

it was very much like her being like, I'm going for it, baby. Um, my goss is that Wicked is going to be the A1 trailer at the Super Bowl. Universal has booked the number one spot in the Super Bowl. First trailer out of the Super Bowl is Wicked. OK, so like kick off Taylor Swift. Get ready.

Like photo close up and then cut to Ariana Grande doing whatever. Amanda, I'm glad you're here for this one because this is the exact angle of this I wanna analyze. Do you think there is any universe in which Universal would be buying ad time for Wicked during the Super Bowl were Taylor Swift now not inextricably connected to the NFL?

Do you think they would even attempt to market that movie during that broadcast? Well, in that universe, did Barbie still make as much money as it did last year? Because I do think that the Super Bowl is a major marketing event. And Barbie has taught people if you market things, like, aggressively to women, then maybe they'll spend a billion dollars. You guys like Wicked? The musical, you seen it? Yeah, of course.

I think it's a hugely flawed musical, but I think it's placed in the culture, at this point, is quite secure. I think it's a hugely flawed musical, but I think its place in the culture at this point is quite secure. I've never seen it. So it's about the Wicked Witch of the West and the Good Witch. Yes. Oh, you don't know anything about Wicked? No, no, no. Okay, so I know, like, I know Adina Menzel. What was her? Adelda Ziem.

Adelda Ziem. Kristen Chenoweth. All right, so this is the idea. Like, you know how there's the Wicked Witch in The Wizard of Oz? And she's wicked. It's right there in her name. Right, and then there's the Good Witch in the Bubble, right? Who comes, Glinda, who comes down and is in the Bubble.

Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think their high school experience was like? Oh my God, so they're in high school? Is it like, it's like the witches' high school? They're in like magic school, yeah. It's very similar to the flashback in Austin Powers and Goldmember, where you realize that Austin and Dr. Evil went to spy boarding school together. Oh, okay.

And they used to be friends, but a rivalry was formed there that extended into their adult careers. I was gonna take us down a whole spy school thing. Please. I just, I don't know if anyone is looking for a gift for like five to 10 year olds. Constantly. But I sent my godson and his sister

this subscription service where they get stuff in the mail every week telling them that they've been enrolled in a spy school and they get like, and they need help with the case. And so new clues and everything show up in the mail every week and they might but they like really think they're in a spy school like they actually do so it's I should look up the name it's really great and that sounds fun and I would watch a musical based on that.

So you're pitching your own musical which is Spy School by Mail the Musical. But that is just like a good gift if you're if you're looking for something for a small child. Yeah, or also maybe for Ben, because it does sound like the kind of gift Ben would appreciate. But Wicked, but so the thing is that the Wicked Witch... is... Yeah, and is not really wicked, but she's good.

Yes, she's prejudiced because of her green skin. The world treats her poorly. Okay. Yeah, she has a sister who is gonna get crushed by a house. In the Wicked universe, does the Wizard of Oz exist in the Wicked? He sure does! Well, so then is the moral of the story that you become a bad person? No, I don't wanna spoil Wicked for you,

but the moral is perhaps the story as you perceived it is not actually quite what was going on. Yeah, maybe the Wicked Witch wasn't so bad. Okay. Maybe it was a matter of point of view. Okay. You watch it thinking, oh no, this is gonna be a story about watching someone I like become irredeemably evil.

Right. Because she is the compelling character. This is the other thing about Wicked. I mean, I guess I don't know, you don't know very much about her in Wizard of Oz. Exactly. Except for the house. So you're like, is this gonna be an Anakin Skywalker fall from a great story? But then does that make you watch

the Wizard of Oz being like, wow, that was really tough. And we did draw by her. We did her dirty. Yeah. We did her dirty. Look, I've also read the books and the books are darker and they're all about how like Oz seems to have a sort of tiered system with the animals at the bottom and the munchkins at the bottom and all this and likes the the musical kind of softens that but it's about that.

You also get like Tin Man backstory and some of the other shit that happens in Wicked. But the other thing I'll say about Wicked is Frozen pretty liberally took a lot of the things that worked in Wicked. Oh. And in some ways refined them. Okay. But the dynamic between the two of them,

between Glinda and Elphaba. Yeah, sure. Even though they're not sisters in that is very much something they hosted off of in Frozen where you're like, well, instead of having a hero and a villain, what if it's sort of misunderstood and there's a kind of like bond of feminine power

that's trying to redeem the person and all of that? So, like, Frozen's always already eaten a little bit of Wicked's lunch. And when David calls out the flaws that exist in the musical, they are flaws that I imagine would only be enlarged if you were to say, split Wicked into two films. David calls out the flaws that exist in the musical. They are flaws that I imagine would only be enlarged if you were to say split Wicked into two films, the dumbest decision in the history of movies.

But here's what I do know is the defying gravity is like the end of the first act. So that'll be like the finale of part one, right? Here's the thing, splitting the movie into two films is a great bit of news for Wicked Part 1. Yes. It's truly like when you don't do the dishes and you're like, that's tomorrow, David's problem.

I had an incredible meal. Right. Wicked Part 1 is going to be great. It's going to be about witches at high school. It's going to have songs that ends on fucking defying gravity. People are going to walk out shooting guns in the air. Then Wicked Part 2 is is probably gonna be a tougher Wicked part to break out the scrub daddy, okay

Because we just it's fucking these stains. They're sticking to the plate. They're three-dimensional. I mean, we'll see Anyway, I thought you might be more excited for wicked Amanda But now have learned you don't really care about Wicked, which is only fair. I just don't know about it. I missed that. I missed that train. But I know many other people think it's pretty great.

So that's exciting for them. It's exciting for them. It's not like I played with Barbies. And I really liked Barbie. But Greta Gerwig isn't directing Wicked as far as I know. No, John Chu is. Who, who, who, I enjoy, I enjoy.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I'm not like, oh, he's going to have a wild take. I'm like, oh, he'll, he'll make like a competent movie probably. Right? Yeah. David. Yes.

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Get your money's worth at ExpressVPN.com slash check. Don't forget to use my link at ExpressVPN.com slash check to get an extra three months of ExpressVPN for free. ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN. Alright, Thomas Crown Affair. David, did you see this in theaters? Uh, no, I did not. Uh, this film was rated 15 in Britain for,

like I said, boobs and art crime. Yeah. Uh, so I think I was too young. I definitely remember I watched it with my mother on VHS when it came out on home video, and we had a great time. I think that is the exact same thing that happened with me.

So you weren't, it wasn't awkward sitting next to your mom with all the boobs. Well, I guess you were, you know, a more European sensibility. I was, look, me and my mom watched Sex and the City together, like, I don't know. That's nice. This is probably what made me the man I am.

Like, I'm less encumbered by shame or something. But, uh... My formative watching R-rated movies with my parents, and why I think I didn't see this in theaters is because I wanted to see Jerry Maguire with my mother and the, you know, the never stop fucking me scene at the beginning. That was pretty tough.

I think we have invoked a lot on this podcast, not just in the Jerry Maguire episode, but something where if you see that at the beginning, that was pretty tough. I think we have invoked a lot on this podcast, not just in the Jerry Maguire episode, but something where if you see that at the right age, and especially you watch it adjacent to a parent, it has burned into your head for a while of, I guess this is what sex is. Yes, yes. And also, I want to separate this from my parents,

respectfully. When you're a kid, you're like, what does it even matter in that movie? You could lift that right out. When you're an adult, you watch it. You're like, I understand everything about Kelly Preston's character. Right away. Both characters fall apart if you don't include that scene. The Thomas Crown Affair. Griff, did you see it in theaters?

No, you were pretty young, right? I almost definitely, I'm only a couple years younger than you, I almost definitely watched this on VHS with my mom, which I do think I was, my mom was very protective about what I watched, but there would be exceptions for things that she respected. Okay.

You know? Yeah. And she's diehard fan of the original Thomas Crown. I went to see it with her at the Metrograph like two months ago. Oh, that's nice. When she was visiting New York. Oh, the Jewesson.

The Jewesson. Which, uh, roll up our episode was visiting New York. Oh, the Jewison. Sure. The Jewison. Which, uh, roll up our episode. Did you take a little nap? Did you take a little sleepy nap when you watched that movie? You fucking pin this on the court for me. David hates the Jewison. He wants to talk greasy like fucking five days after Jewison died.

Yeah, with all respect to the great Norman Jewison, it is so boring. Like it's so slow. And I understand that action movies were paced very differently, and this is my, like, you know, internet-riddled ADHD brain or whatever. There's obviously craft in it. Like, Faye Dunaway for life.

Also, though, Faye Dunaway happens to be in this film. So, I agree, it's really boring. It's, like, really boring and a lot of split screen. I think this movie is better than the original in almost every regard. I think overall it's unquestionably a better film and a more functional film. I think that is basically a craft over all else movie

that barely hangs together as a story. But I- Craft and hot actors, like, you know... Yes, it's, it's... Everyone looking great. This is my thing. The reason I'm surprised you are always so quick to call out how boring it is, which is a thing I've heard you do so many times

over 10 plus years of friendship, is I do think in a certain way, that is an early Just Vibes movie that you usually go to the mat for. The vibes are totally fine. I think I was hurt by watching it as a teenager. Sure, after this. Probably after this one.

Yeah. And thinking it had this reputation as like one of the, you know, steamiest sex Hollywood thrillers, like, oh my God, like the tension crackles, like the chess scene, it's your, you know, you'll be, you'll goosebumps like, and then you watch it and it feels a little tepid, which is partly just the zero. I completely agree. But you know, it's funny If you read the contemporaneous reviews

of Thomas Crown Affair in 1999, my preferred version, it is a lot of critics who are older than us being like, Pierce Brosnan and Nehruzo can't come close to the chemistry of like McQueen and Dunway. And I'm like, are you serious? I'd like, I mean, do you remember the Fiji water bottle? Like, what?

I guess we just have different definitions of chemistry? I think that was also just a protectiveness, right? Exactly. Sure. Well, how did your mom feel about the remake? She loved it. Yes. Oh, yeah, my mom did.

I went to her mom. Sorry. Moms loved it. No, I remember the arc of it because early 99, Spy Who Shagged Me came out, right? I'm fucking fanatical about that movie. It has the scene with Ivana Humpalot, one of the great American films, has the scene with Ivana Humpalot

where they parody the Thomas Crown chess scene. And my mom says to me, that's from Thomas Crown. Like, any time a movie I liked featured a reference to anything in pop culture from before 1970, she would use that as a teaching moment. Like when I saw Toy Story and she was like, I'm bringing you to Picasso exhibit. Because now Mr. Potato Head has planted Picasso

in your head as a name. So she similarly was like... I'm taking notes here. That's really good parenting. This was an area in which my mom did a very good job. And I will not speak about it. I've sort of been doing that in reverse last night. My son will be two on Friday, and he loves planes. So last night, I just showed him Top Gun Maverick.

Hell yeah. Which he fucking loved. Because you know what it is? It's just planes going really fast, and also motorcycles, a thing he loves. Cool guys. And he just kept going fast, fast, whoosh, fast. Just was absolutely shocked and awed and delighted.

Anyway. So my kid is basically a full year older than your kid, where that's, now I have that. Well, humble brag. Yeah. Not bragging, not bragging. No, it's a humble brag. Yeah, I'm humble bragging that she's going to be three.

I have not shown her Top Gun Maverick yet. Griff, actually, I will tell you today, my kid threw up yesterday, so she was home today. Well, that's a real humble brag. Yeah, huge humble brag for her because she's totally fine today. She demanded Lightyear because she loves Buzz. OK, and she saw it on the Disney Plus two minutes in. She was like, get this shit off the screen.

What is this? They're like talking to each other. Like this is so boring. Like if you just... My friend Derek Simon, one of my oldest friends who I've invoked a lot on this podcast, he has a daughter a little bit older who loves Buzz Lightyear, goes to sleep with a Buzz doll, like carries it around all the time, brought her to Lightyear as her first movie ever in theaters.

And 15 minutes in she's like, I think I'm good. And like full pump and circumstance, look, you get a popcorn bucket and you sit here in your room. I went alone to a press screening of Lightyear, as one does. And you got put on a watch list for that. Yep. But it was at least like one of the ones

where they brought, you could bring children. And so other people did bring children. I think Lightyear predates my son. Anyway, so I sat next to a small kid who was just like confused and or terrified the whole time. And I like, I just completely ruined the movie for me on his behalf. I was like, well, this little child hates this. How could I like it? Yeah. No, but I think that child was smart. Yeah. Okay. Yes. That child was Richard Brode. I not to humble brag, but I was loosely uh, uh, loosely dating someone at the time Lightyear came out.

And I went to go see a matinee by myself in the afternoon. And she found the ticket stub in my pants pocket and broke up with me very shortly after. And I'm not saying the two things are connected, but her reaction was as if she had found evidence of me with another woman. That's what I was gonna ask. Was it because she didn't go with you or? No, she was like, you went to see Lightyear today? Right. And I was like, yeah, and she was like, who did you go with?

And I was like, no one. I thought she was accusing me of going out with someone else. Right, right, right. When she realized I went to Lightyear by myself in the afternoon, she got kind of freaked out. Okay, all right. It was a bit of a red flag for her. Arc of my mom with this movie, as I remember it is,

spy who shagged me, she calls out, you know, that's from the original Thomas Crown Affair. I go, what's the Thomas Crown Affair? I don't remember if she shows it, the original to me at that point. If she did, I probably had a good night's sleep. Then this movie comes out and she's staunchly against it. Why can't they leave the classics alone?

Everything needs to be updated. And I do think when it came out, there was that attitude. And this movie was something of a sleeper hit, because the word of mouth was so good. Of people being like, this thing actually rules. Yeah. The reviews were good and even still people were a little cagey and it grew.

So then I think we rented it whenever it came out on VHS. And she kind of had to begrudgingly be like, it's good. I think she still maintains whenever it came out on VHS, and she kind of had to begrudgingly be like, it's good. I think she still maintains the originals better. Sure. That's her right. But then this time I saw it with her recently, like two months ago, she was like,

you know, it really doesn't make any sense. Like, that movie barely has a plot. And I was like, yeah. And we were in alignment of like, that thing is like some incredible craft. The split-screen shit was basically unseen at that point in time. But absolutely feels like a post-production salvage job.

Like a Suicide Squad-esque. How do we make this movie so weird that people don't notice that we actually didn't make a functional movie? And then the movie star, like, Heat, is off the charts. For sure. But the core concept of it is so good that when you watch it, you're like, yeah, this is begging for someone to make a functional version of this story set up.

I agree. But I also think that the changes that McTiernan, by all accounts, makes to it, is like, improve it. Absolutely. The fact that it is there too. I'm going to be honest, pretty ingenious art heists. Like, they are both very clever, gonna be honest, pretty ingenious art heists. Like they are both very clever, like well executed capers that you also can follow in real time. You don't need the Soderbergh, like, you know,

after the fact and spin back, here's what really happened. No, very direct. I don't want anyone to have the impression that I'm aligning Steven Soderbergh, my favorite person on earth. And also I love Ocean's Eleven, but it's just like, they're very smart. Because it's art, the stakes are, I guess lower,

but they don't feel, it's just, it's fun. You don't have to worry about it. As David's favorite, Dennis Leary says at the end, it's just like fancy swirls of paint that only matter to like some very silly people. So the stakes can just be, is he going to get away with it? Are they going to like figure their shit out? Are they going to have sex?

This is why it's frustrating that McTiernan lost it to some degree, or at least has never been able to fully get it back, you know, or prove, give himself the opportunity to get it back. Is that same fucking thing with Die Hard. Die Hard is meant to be terrorists when he reads the script and he's like, they gotta be robbers. If they're terrorists, the movie is not fun. No one wants to see terrorists get beaten

because you need to beat them like violently and it reminds them of the outside world. I mean, nobody wants terrorists at Christmas, either. Correct. Right, and I don't know if you know this, but Die Hard is a Christmas movie. But he was like, it's more fun if they are robbers pretending to be terrorists.

The audience will be on board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This movie has to be joyful, and he's totally right. And you watch the original Thomas Crown Affair, and the whole notion of this man who has everything, who is so bored, he starts committing crimes for sport, basically to give himself a thrill, plays very differently in the original

when it's armed bank robbery and there are like casualties. Right. It's maybe like a more complex character and like a more, you know, that's a great novel. Yes. This is a great 90s action movie. Like it's just, it's really, it's way, way more fun. And as you were saying, not only does he not need to do the rollback

and explain to you how the heist was done, where you just watch it in real time, he also doesn't give you the watch them trying to work out the heist. Think of, like, how many other heist movies are there where the only thing you ever see is the heist itself and it's all legible to you? Spreading blueprints around. Oh, but I like that. I love that. I mean, I love a get the gang together.

I love a here's what our plan's gonna be. But that's a good observation that you just watch it happen in real time. I never begrudge either of the preface or the post-game analysis happening in a heist movie. But it is a little impressive just as a skill piece that McTierney makes two heists that work where every time an element is introduced in real time, you go, oh, I get what they're doing. But it is a little impressive just as a skill piece that McTierney makes two heists that work

where every time an element is introduced in real time, you go, oh, I get what they're doing. And it's like, it's deft too. It's just like, when you rewatch it for the thousandth time as I did, it's like, oh, there is one line about, do you want me to take your briefcase to the office? Oh, Mr. Crown, you forgot your briefcase.

And it's not heavy handed enough that you would be like, why are they so fixated on his briefcase? Yes. But it's like an essential plot point that the first time you see it, you're like, oh, the briefcases. It's the exact thing McTiernan was a master at, which is knowing exactly how to draw your focus to certain things. Keep them in mind without overplaying the hand in a way that telegraphs, this is important.

I'm going to open the dossier, Griffin. Have you guys heard of the film GoldenEye? Yes. Okay. So Pierce Brosnan was the star of that film. It came out in 1995 and it was successful. Released by the MGM corporation. True. Yes. Full released by the MGM corporation. True. Yes. And because Pierce now has this power, he found a company called Irish dream time. I am not getting, that is the name of his production company. And he starts casting around for a Pierce Brosnan project.

John Kelly, who is a producer who would have come up, we worked with Kubrick a lot. Okay. He is sort of his guy running Irish Dreamtime. And they make a movie called The Nephew. I have never heard of this movie, Griffin. His first effort. Yes. The run of Irish Dreamtime productions is really fascinating when you look at it as a whole. Because it's sort of all the Pierce blank checks, I'm Bond, I can get movies of certain size, greenlit on my name movies. The biggest things he's been in outside of Bond and this movie are usually

him joining someone else's production. Versus the Irish Dreamtime productions, which are like Evelyn and the Matador and Taylor Panama and like his, I wanna show a different side of myself movies. We're, Amanda, how do you feel about Pierce generally, especially, you know, a movie star like this, A Lister Pierce versus, you know, Mamma Mia character actor Pierce.

Oh, well, I love character actor Pierce. We all love that. I feel like everyone's on board with that. But that also brings to mind to me, like the Mrs. Sapphire, and it was a run by Fruiting, you know, and he's very good in that as well. That was probably my first Pierce experience. Mine too, I'm sure.

I, like both of you, I assume, or David, I know you're a big Bond person, but Griffin, I don't know where you are on Bond. I like Bond okay. We did all the Pierce Bonds on Patreon last year. Okay. And then just recently did Mirror Has Two Faces with Streisand.

And then these two Pierce episodes in McTiernan, because this first film is also Pierce. So we've been in like a really Piercey run. And I love Pierce unabashedly. So I love Pierce. He's not my favorite Bond. Same. And I think this is the best of his Bond movies. This is like what he should be doing

instead of the Bond stuff. And I don't know whether it's just the tone and the setup of this movie fits him a little bit more than like, you know, made up international conspiracy to fund a video game, whatever. But I really like him. This is my favorite of this era. I don't love his Bond stuff as much.

And I mean, you know, everything he's done since is delightful. Yeah. His Bond stuff is very up and down, obviously. This is the one time I feel like it truly, like, Bond-era Pierce just completely makes sense in another movie. Like, he's good in Taylor Panama or the Matador, obviously. You know, like, he's good in other stuff, but this is the one time the movie star image makes sense.

We've talked about this a lot, that there's the sort of like monkey paw of getting cast as Bond and what do you do with your movies in between Bond and that those guys tend to really struggle to like, if you go too far away from the Bond persona, people aren't seeing what they want from you. And if you do something that feels too Bond adjacent, it's like, well, this feels like an also ran. Yeah. I'm waiting for the major Bond. And someone like Craig, like really took until Knives Out that it's like, he now has a character

that is far enough away from Bond. Right. Is now its own franchise. He's going to survive. But you look at the Craig movies in between his Bond entries, and most of them bomb hard. And Pierce, this is like the one that really worked in the middle of his Bond entries, and most of them bomb hard. And Pierce, this is like the one that really worked in the middle of his Bond run. Because it's borrowing what is good about Bond.

But in this way, that's the toughest needle to thread. Like, you know, Connery was making movies while he was Bond, but a lot of the in-between Bond movies are a little forgotten, even the good ones. And this was like, Pierce totally knocked it out of the park. So, he and his other producing partner, both St. Clair, great name, rent the Thomas Crown Affair from Blockbuster Video. Heard of it. Because they're sort of casting around.

Do you think that, like, they know they want to rent Thomas Crown Affair, 1968, and they send an assistant to go in to Blockbuster to get it. Or do you think that Pierce and Bo are just like walking the aisles of Blockbuster looking for inspiration and are like, okay, why don't we check this out? I, it has to be the latter.

Just the two of them doing Jack Black in the holiday. Do you think that like 1995 or whatever, Pierce brought, okay, all right. No. He lives in like a fortress in Malibu. It's like the size of fucking Bahrain. Or a beautiful compound like in Hawaii, on the North Shore of Kauai. But I also have to imagine, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but like at that point in time, the two of them are like,

okay, we can get some movies made. What do we want to do? MGMUA are behind me as bond. What do they have in their library that I can like run with? I'll probably be an easier sell to them. So they watched the Thomas crown affair and Griffin, they say, yes, this is Brosnan talking, uh, you know, um, the suits, the love affair, the chess sequence, of course, all very iconic, but there wasn't enough flesh on the bone of the love affair. I felt I thought we could explore the romance and find what actually makes

this guy tick and fall in love. And it dovetailed well into the persona that was happening with myself and bond. He's, he's, he's totally right. Obviously like the good for him. Well, I think the major change there too is that I think the characterization of Thomas Crown himself as a guy is a little More interesting in the original because they are playing off that like this guy's maybe close to having a psychotic break, right? Why is he doing something this dangerous and McQueen's obviously really good? But I don't think that's a strike against this movie that pierces a little more

elusive as a character because the real reframing is she is the lead character of this movie. Yeah. Yes. In every sense, I would say. I accept that. Yeah. He brings in Leslie Dixon, who wrote Mrs. Doubtfire, the most quotable movie of all time, Ben. That's true.

Ben once called it once called that Mrs. Doubtfire the most quotable movie of all time. Ben. That's true. Ben once called it, once called that Mrs. Dalfar the most quotable movie of all time. And we asked him to name his favorite quote. Yeah, now I'm trying to think besides run by fruiting. Okay, what else is there? There's of course, Hello. Hello. Oh sure, yeah.

That's the quote he pulled out to back up his claim that it's the most quotable movie of all time. Hello. I can't think of a third one, Ben. Just imagining someone writing H-E-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-O-O-O-O. And Kurt Wimmer, who obviously I best know as like the

sort of like George Orwell for morons, you know, equilibrium guy, right? Like, ultraviolet, which is one of the worst films I've ever seen. Not a great movie, but he's he they are brought together, basically to write that they had had like an earlier draft. It's basically just a rewrite of the original movie. Brosnan doesn't like that. And instead, it's like, Leslie, you're going to do the romance stuff.

Kurt, you're going to do the action stuff. Leslie comes up with the idea of the therapist, right? Having that, having like him being able to talk about himself a little bit more. And they have a fun script. And who does Pierce Brosnan like Griffin Newman? Who has he worked with on one of his first ever attempts to break into Hollywood?

John McTierney. Johnny McT. Yeah. The world's most innocent man at this point in time. Yeah, he's currently, at first he's working on 13th Warrior, he was supposed to make a Michael Crichton vehicle called Airframe after that. I don't know what that is.

Yeah. But he jumps at the chance to re-team with Brosnan and- I could understand him not wanting to jump onto another Crichton adaptation coming off of 13th Warrior. Yes. McTiernan's take, it's a love story for crocodiles. They're both a piece of work. it's a love story for crocodiles. They're both a piece of work. It's a love story about two people who should be together.

There's this big obstacle. They've got these razor blades installed at the ends of all of their bones, is how he says. So he really likes the spiky romance. And he's all for it. Okay, so he makes the art thief change, right? But then he makes, yeah, he changes the, the script that they have, it's Banks, and then he changes it to art. Which is huge. Yeah. He's basically like, take the guns out. But yes, okay. Renee Russo. And this is the casting coup

of the movie, right? Because she's still way, she's the obvious pick. Like, right? I mean, I'm trying to think of like, who are... Who is the obvious pick in 1999 for this role? Like, you know, Nicole Kidman. I don't know. Sure. Nicole Kidman would have made a lot of sense. Here's what I want to throw out that I just think is so fascinating about Renee Russo and is kind of unique. Do you guys know what her first film credit is?

Major League, baby. Major League. Really? Yeah. Her first movie is Major League. She was a model, then she sort of like ages out of modeling as happens to most models at a weirdly young age, right? Then she's like, I wanna learn how to act. She goes to drama school, she takes classes.

She does like, you know, off-beaten theater. She does six episodes of a TV show that was prematurely canceled. Okay. And then does Major League. Those are her first two screen credits. So Major League is her first movie period after only doing a handful of TV, and she is 35 when that movie is filmed. Awesome. How many actresses who are conventional A-list leading ladies start their career at 35?

A time where this horrible industry is starting to push people out the door. She is someone who arrives as like a grownup. Yeah. It's true. Right, her entire movie career is like, this is an adult woman. Well, and she arrives at a good time,

where they still made movies about adult women. Just being adult women and not having to go on some sort of like journey of self-discovery to find that they're adult women, you know, and whatever. But I can't think of anyone currently because... No. There's like no 35-year-old or 45-year-old woman just playing a woman. Who's starting doing that.

Yeah. And not only that, but it's like this era where I feel like her career niche becomes, look, a lot of these other movies, they're gonna cast a love interest who's 20 years younger than the man. Right. What if you want, just to mix things up,

cast someone who can kind of stand toe-to-toe with the guy, in like every respect? When the film is announced, Variety claims that, you know, MGM is looking for a Julia Roberts caliber leap, right? Julia Roberts is 31 at the time, Brosnan is 45. And both McChernan and Brosnan were basically like, we both wanted someone in her 40s. Like, we were like, what about an age appropriate romance? And, uh, they

both loved Renee Russo, but like, I, I'm trying to like, I don't think there were, there's no one else listed here. They are really claiming like, this is who we wanted and we went and got her. Like, yeah, I, I, I guess there wasn't some kind of like casting search or a level, you know, a Lister who passed or whatever. I mean, like, where would you guys, Renee Russo, her, she's a big actor at the, you know, get shorty Tim. Can I literally just can I list them because they're not that many? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So it's Major League, Mr. Destiny, Jim Belushi vehicle. We can disregard that. One good cop, Michael Keaton, cop drama, doesn't really make an impact. Free Jack, then Lethal Weapon 3, which is obviously the first thing that really ups her stock, right? Then In the Line of Fire, I'm not skipping over any movies in this run. You go from Lethal Weapon 3 to In the Line of Fire.

Can I just shout out Free Jack, which is an insane movie, but is also where she meets the writer and director Dan Gilroy, who she is still married to. She's still married to. Good call. Put a pin in that. Lethal Weapon 3, In the Line of Fire, cameo in Major League 2. Outbreak, Get Shorty, Tin Cup, Ransom, Buddy, Lethal Weapon 4. That's a strong fucking run. And those are all big movies.

On the poster. Yes. For all of those. Yay. Yes. Yeah. Yes. For someone who has been acting at that point for less than a decade, she gets on the poster almost immediately. Like the public is buying what she's selling. Which is odd because it's, like, very out of trend with the other major actresses of that time. That's true, but she sort of... invents... a, like, a type of 90s role for herself, you know?

Like, Renée Rousseau is a character who is a grown-up in... mostly among dudes, in, like, an action, you know, tilted movie. Sure. But with a pinch of comedy, she can banter back and forth. And it's like, so you need a Rene Russo, but they just don't... They don't make Rene Russo's anymore, along with making movies that have Rene Russo's.

No. Do you know, because I found this out recently. Oh, my God. What, Ben? She was Natasha in Rocky and Bullwinkle. So we're going to talk about it. Her peak as a movie star comes a year after this. Damn, that hits for me. The problem with poor Renee Russo's career, and I love Renee Russo to death, is after this you're like, God damn, well, Thomas Crown, the world must have been her oyster.

And then it's like Rocky and Bullwinkle, Showtime, Big Trouble, Two for the Money, damn, well, Thomas Crown, the world must have been her oyster. And then it's like Rocky and Bullwinkle showtime, big trouble, two for the money, yours, mine and ours. And then she's out. Out. She doesn't make movies until she pops up as Thor in, not as Thor, as Thor's mom in Thor. As Frigga, of course, Frigga, mother of Thor. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, no, I mean, she's since done interviews about her ongoing struggle with bipolar disorder and when she stepped away from movies after Yours, Mine, and Ours,

that gap between that and O5 and Thor in 11, I think, was largely based around that. Wow, I had no idea. It was a thing I was just in digging through her career last night, found this, because she never did a big sort of like, people magazine cover, My Struggle. Right, right, right, right. She was on the Queen Latifah, the short-lived Queen Latifah daytime talk show. Okay.

Promoting Nightcrawler, and Latifah asked her some question about like, so what was your life like in those years in between? And she just broke into it and was like, you know, I wasn't planning to talk about this today. And it weirdly didn't get a lot of coverage. Yeah. But I think now she's very open about like, I've taken years off from acting because I just have trying to like regulate myself. Right. Wow. And find a way to process. But yes, like Thor is a movie where they basically cut her role down to two lines of dialogue.

She then gets more to do in the second Thor and probably gets the best of the Marvel material in Endgame. But that's most... Literally, what does she do in Endgame? She tells fat Thor to chill out and he's like, thanks mom. And she's like, great. So the residual checks go to 123 Russo Street, Los Angeles, California. His emotional arc in Endgame is that he's sad that his mom's died and he can't have a conversation with her.

And through the Infinity Stones, he gets to go back in time and have one final day with his mother. Oh. And she plays it very well. Is that why Captain America gets the hammer? Uh, no. Okay. This is good.

The thing about it is she does... This is really good, no. Okay. This is the thing about it. This is really good podcasting. Yeah, it's classic Marvel. The whole thing with Marvel is it's not a big part of the movie and people sometimes might even forget that it's part of the movie because Renee Russo is there. It punches above its weight a little bit. Like she's she's really good and she makes an effort. It's not as, you know, it's good.

It's a perfectly nice moment, you know, in a big, loud movie. Can we talk about the intern for a minute? Well, this is what I want to say. So like they bring her back for the Thor movies, right? With very little to do in the first two. And then it's like fucking Nightcrawler and Intern in two successive years. I'm like, is Renee back? Has Renee carved out her good Renee in her 60s type?

And it felt like Nightcrawler, she was on the bubble for Oscar nomination. Intern, she fucking rocks and rules in. And it's one of the great movies of the 2010s. Are you full, Intern? I love Intern. It is my favorite Nancy movie. Are you a full intern? I love Intern. Wow. It is my favorite Nancy movie.

That's a little much. I also agree that that's a little much. I love Intern as, you know, the answer to Baby Boom, however many years later. It's a fascinating text. Yes. It's just got one problem. The other interns?

No, no, they're fine. You know who my you know who I don't like in the intern Griffin. I'd say it's I'd say it's a twofold problem. Both of those problems are workaholics. Oh, OK. In different areas of the film. Oh, is it the husband?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He sucks. And she stays with him. Yes. But she keeps the company, too, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. She scales back. Right. Yeah. But if she dumps him, right? Correct. Yeah, she maybe scales back. Right, yeah.

But if she dumps him at the end of that movie, the intern probably wins Best Picture. Did she get... Because like, whatever happened with Emily Weiss, do you guys know who Emily Weiss is? I realize. No. Do you know about Glossier? Do you know what that is? Oh, which is sort of the analog of what that movie is looking like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, I think the intern is actually supposed to be like Net-a-Porter, do you know what that is? Yes. That's an, I mean, I don't know, I just want to make sure everyone has a reference. So that's an online shopping platform, but that like seems to be what they're mimicking.

Yes. Because I think intern, Glassian maybe exists around then, but it's the same era that it started. Sure. But eventually Emily Weiss got interned, but it's the same era that it's starting. But eventually, Emily Weiss got interned, where they hired, she was the founder, and then she brought on a quote-unquote CEO

to turn around the business because things were too much. But now that's what's happened in real life, so I can never remember how the intern actually ends, whether she keeps the company or not. She wins. She keeps it. She keeps everything at the end of the movie actually ends, whether she keeps the company or not. She wins. She keeps it. She keeps everything at the end of the movie. Okay.

But she should have dumped the goon. Right. But she does Tai Chi, so you know that she's somehow like calmed down. Sure, right. She sent her. She sent her. She sent her, yeah. About the end of it, she sent her. I lived like three streets away from where they filmed

her home for the intern. And I just, I really had a lot of problems getting to my own much less nice house for several months. Oh, because of Nancy? Sure. Because of Nancy, because you know what? Nancy gets the whole neighborhood shut down, right? You know, there are trailers for her, and God bless her, she deserves every single trailer.

But that's what I remember about the intern. I liked it, I liked it a lot. No, there's like 20% of it I genuinely hate. Yeah. Which is all the Silly Boy stuff, basically. Yeah, he sucks. She absolutely should not be with him. But like the 80% of that movie I love. And the kitchen is a little too Instagram-y.

I would agree with that. But it's like, it's accurate, it's reflecting. Yeah, she would have an Instagram-y kitchen, right. The production design is like correct and is a character, but, you know, I prefer the original, it's complicated kitchen for my own life. Well, that's Pete Kitchen, but it's a kind of thing where... Except she's renovating it.

Sure. Well, that's... But that's why Nancy was brilliant and it's complicated. She gets to show you the best kitchen, but if you have any criticisms of it, she's telling you, well, it's actually not finished. Yeah. So don't judge it as a fixed object. She's never going to top that again.

She's never going to get a better kitchen on screen because she's created a shadow that will loom over the rest of her career. I mean, that's true. That's true. I think in the kitchen area. But in turn, post that, Russo does Just Getting Started, the Ron Shelton, Tommy Lee Jones, Morgan Freeman, Retirement Home comedy, Velvet Buzzsaw.

That's stuff. Also, in In Turn, she is like the very beautiful masseuse who winds up with Robert De Niro. So, like, she really gets aged, like category bumped, very quickly in a way that I feel is unfair. Well, it's what's interesting is like in the 90s, she's leading women to other men in their 40s. And that's what's so refreshing.

When she comes back in the 2010s, she is in her 60s playing against eight year olds. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. De Niro is 10 years older than her. It's not like the most insane thing in the world, but yeah. Right. But the, you know, she's aging differently. Well, you know, Robert De Niro is a handsome man,

but yeah, sure. Were you guys De Niro or Pacino on that viral meme thing? Look, the whole point of that viral meme is that it's hard to choose. I'm De Niro, I'm De Niro, I'm De Niro, I'm De Niro. I'm probably Pacino. I mean, it's Midnight Run De Niro. I'm De Niro. I'm De Niro. I'm De Niro. I'm probably Pacino. I mean, it's midnight run. It's midnight run. But like, it's also like, you have the thing of like,

who do I want picking me up in heat, right? Do I want like, you know, Psycho Neil McCauley? Do I want Screamy Vincent Hanna? I'm like, I think I want Neil McCauley. Like, I think it's De Niro, but like that doesn't mean Pacino isn't hot. Like of course Pacino is hot. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm De Niro, but like that doesn't mean Pacino isn't hot. Like, of course Pacino is hot. Yeah.

I mean, I think I'm Pacino as well. I also felt like the De Niro photo chosen was extremely handsome, but unrepresentative. Like how many times has he smiled in his life? It was unfair. Like that and three other times. You know, and he does look really adorable when he does, but that's not what you're getting every day. That's not the standard.

Yeah. I just want to close the loop on the Russo career thing. She has that movie, she has Velvet Buzzsaw, which is like, great, her and Gilroy again, doesn't work. And then it's Avengers Endgame. She has not made a movie in five years. But here's another thing I found out in my digging. Are you aware that Renee Russo and Dan Gilroy have a daughter named Rose Gilroy, who looks exactly like Rene Russo and is a blacklist screenwriter,

whose spec script is now being made by Apple for $200 million called Project Artemis, which I believe is a Scarlett Johansson Channing Tatum astronaut rom-com. Oh, that movie is written by their daughter? Yes. Wow. Doesn't that rule? Good for them. Yeah, I hope it's good.

Me too. She's very pretty. I just looked her up. She looks like Renee Russo. She does. She does. David? Yes.

Movie. What? Yup, I mean it. I swear to God. I'm not lying. Oh, that's cool. This episode is cool. Get a little excitement in your voice, David. I'm excited. This episode is once again brought to you from the fine folks at movie. We love them. They're a curated streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe. They got iconic directors, emerging auteurs. There is always something new to discover. And with MUBI, each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere. Now, this month on MUBI, you can catch their global special program, which is funny.

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He's navigating the relationship between artists and audiences in his Locarno Prize-winning movie. That's a guy I don't know that well, but then you've also got Francis Ha. A movie you love. Of course, the old Bombeck's film, yes. Mm-hmm. And of course, where he's collaborated

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That's mubi.com slash blank check for a month of great cinema for free. So Renee Russo McTiernan loves her. He wanted a tough cookie, you know, is what he says. And but they wanted to dress her up in this way that you could, you know, you can still think like, but she could fall in love. You know, she can go toe to toe with anybody in this movie, but she's going to have to become vulnerable. And he passed Renee Russo, uh, embodies both very well. Well, that's like the cornerstone of it's what gives the original Thomas Cranefair juice

and what this movie is trying to centralize more is these two people in this cat and mouse game who genuinely want to be in love with each other and can't decide if they're being stupid by assuming the other person genuinely feels the same way. They mostly want to. Yes. But they want to deep down. Right. But they also refuse to acknowledge that. Yes. But they cut they they want to deep down. Right. But they also

refuse to acknowledge that. Yes. And spend a lot of time and basically have constructed their entire lives to avoid the knowledge of that. The sort of Michael Manny I live my set by a very particular set of rules. I don't break them for anyone. And not only are you threatening to make me break my own rules, but you're the exact person who could fuck me the most if you were to turn on me, and I'll feel like a fool if I figure out you were playing me the whole time. Right, yes.

It's good shit. It's just a compelling backbone for a movie. All right, let's talk about the movie. So, opening of this movie is just the most joyful, fun shit in the world, in my opinion. The initial, the Trojan horse heist, This movie is just the most joyful, fun shit in the world, in my opinion. The initial, the Trojan horse heist, the whole, every stage of it.

Delightful. And also opening credits where the letters are swapping. Oh yeah. And the Bill Conti score comes in immediately and that, anytime it's piano based, it's A plus stuff. But it's also sort of like tipping its hand to what the movie's gonna be doing, where the letters that are swapping are always the same letters

in two positions. It's really good. Conti freaks it, in my opinion. I mean, he does. Like... It's a lot. There's always music, and... Like, that's why I said, the piano part's really good. For example, during that heist,

when there's... Anytime that you're with heist crew number one, and the fake heist crew, and for example, they're sawing out of the Trojan horse, or they're trying to figure out how to cut the AC and evade the security lamps or security cameras, there is like that basically porn soundtrack, you know? Like, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun-dun-dun-dun. And that is silly, you know?

I was thinking a lot about, like, if we just recut this movie now without that part of the soundtrack, and maybe like without 20% of like the insert shots of making keys, like, this might like be a masterpiece. I'm going to push back on the keys. McTiernan definitely wants some sparks to fly. Yeah. And just like cut back 20%. You know, you can't cut all of them because I want to see them sawing out of the Trojan horse. No, I'm with you.

And I want to see the scuba masks that they're using so that they can breathe inside the Trojan horse until they get there. I'm with you 100% on the score. And what I find a little frustrating about it is like 75% of it unreservedly owns, right? And then there's just like extra toppings on the pizza, where it's not even like he's making bad choices. It's like you could literally go into the file and pull a couple layers out. And it would sound great.

Yes. He's just going a little too hard at times, which is usually when he kicks in that like Red Shoes Diaries vibe. Right. And it also, like, the transitions are so fast, you know, it just goes, like, from one back to the other. Like, silence is not really a part of this film at all, which, for the most part, is good. It's, like, propulsive.

The Trojan Horse thing... I just... I really love it because it is, it is like a little bit clever, but also like really obvious enough for everyone to get, you know? And they even remark upon it enough in the movie that if you don't immediately get the Trojan Horse reference, it's sort of like, very briefly explained to you. It's like accessible. It's, it's like accessible. It's not high brow. It's like middle brow trying to explain high brow.

I agree. And it's, I think the feel this way about the Bill Conti score too, where it's like, we are here to have fun guys. Yeah. Like there are stakes. Absolutely. But like everyone relaxed. No one's going to die in the Thomas Crown affair.

Like, but also like the cornerstone corner die in the Thomas Crown affair. Like, it's gonna be okay. But also, like, cornerstone, cornerstone and McTiernan style is, I will never do something flashy at the expense of the audience understanding. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not here to impress anybody.

I'm here to communicate this story in a way that gets everyone on board. The other thing is, it's good characterization, because part of the thing with this guy is that he's bored, right? Like, McQueen Thomas Crown is, like, kind of manic and losing it. This guy's trying to wake himself up again.

So all of this is like sport for his own amusement. And part of what I think he enjoys is doing it so overtly right in everyone's face. To be as obvious about it as he can. Right. And still get away with it. I mean, right in everyone's face, to be as obvious about it as he can. Right. And still get away with it. I mean, I think that's true. I do also think that McTiernan point, like, it is,

it's fun and it's for the broadest possible audience. Like, he's stealing a Monet painting, you know? I'm like, when they do run the check, be like, who has been bidding on Monets? And it's like, well, like maybe half the world, but it's like the artists that everyone has heard of. There's that very charming scene. The tour guide.

Yeah, the tour guide and the school children, and it's worth a hundred million bucks. It's just like great exposition, but also like not talking down to anyone. Yeah. It's very well calibrated. Yes. I want to go to the Met so much that the security guards are like,

Hey, David here to look at your haystacks, right? Ah, take a seat. Like, I do have some questions about this Thomas Crown's, just like general schedule and time management. And we're like meant to believe he's one of the great Wall Street raiders A financial geek at the 80s and 90s. Yes.

And like he's so busy that he has to have his like, you know, made to measure suits done while guys are like yelling at him about stocks. Yes. Or like whatever it is or acquisitions or whatever they're doing. I guess they're M&A. But he also has time to like go to up and he works downtown, which is very clear by the view in his office. But he has time to be at the museum like multiple times a day. He takes Rene Russo on a date at like 4 p.m. When Leary gets the warrant and they show up at his house, it's like definitely midday on a Tuesday. And he and his lawyer are like wearing aprons,

like cooking a meal in broad daylight. I'm just like, what kind of Wall Street Raider are you? I'll go beyond that. I'll say, in fact, I think over the course of this movie, you basically see Thomas Crown take Renee Russo out on a date at every possible time of day, someone could take someone out on a date. He's making it very clear, there is no hour

that is off limits for me. It's just, and plus, he has to be dating the other woman, or like not dating, as the case may be. But, you know, that's, it's just like a lot of time spent out of the office. And that is not the impression that I got about how things worked in the 80s and 90s on Wall Street to defend the movie. I think it's like he's gotten so on autopilot buying companies or whatever the hell it is he does.

He's just like, yeah, I can do this in my sleep. Yeah. I just screwed you out of 10 million bucks. I'll see you later. Like that's why he's like, should I just fucking steal a Monet and then put it back? Just, you know, just to get a flutter, just to feel something flutter. It's fair. It's fair. It's just, this is what happens when you watch it 45,000 times. It's fair. It's fair. It's just this is what happens when you watch it 45,000 times. It's like, why is Wallace, his lawyer, also helping him cook a midday meal on a Tuesday? You know? I mean, my read as well is like, the McQueen character,

it almost feels like he is trying to tank his career and he can't. Like, he's Tracy Jordan, and he's like, I want people to hate me. I want to bomb out and nothing I do ends up sabotaging my industry. Right? That he almost kind of lucked into all of it to a certain extent versus this guy I read it as like he was really hungry 20 years ago. He got to the top of the mountain and found that he doesn't really enjoy it.

And now he's just near like catatonic depression board. Right. He got to the top of the mountain and found that he doesn't really enjoy it. And now he's just near like catatonic depression board, trying to do anything to raise his pulse a little bit. Where he likes this game of just like, what if I blow off everything? What if I like invite my lawyer over and we make dinner? Like, I don't know. You know? It's also like the therapy scenes.

Can we talk about the therapy scenes? Of course, Faye Dunaway is this therapist. Which is just a great homage and a great bit of casting, but it's like, in some ways she's a great therapist because she gets right to the point and she, I mean, and they use her as a device to be like, this is what's going on with this guy. But like, that's not how therapy works.

You're supposed to make the revelation yourself. And so like, he is basically just in therapy with her because she can keep up with him conversation-wise. And so, he's the type of guy who goes to therapy just to have someone to talk to him at his level. And he likes being yelled at by Faye Dunaway, which I think that's a huge part of it. That's true, yeah.

If my therapist laughed and clapped that much at things I said, I would maybe see a different therapist But he likes it. He loves yeah. Yes, but she also will be like Don't you fall in love? Mr. Crown? You know or whatever She will call him out the early scene of him selling off the the part of his company or whatever it is, right? With the guys lighting the cigars. In the original film, that's him just being like, I'm so fucking bored, I wanna just get rid of all of this.

Whereas in this movie, they're trying to make this triumphant, like we fucking beat you. Whoever thought Thomas Crown would need to sell anything for money? We have the cigars ready to go. And they try to do this big triumphant, like we fucking owned your ass thing, and he's so unresponsive that it's not even fun to them. They wanna feel like they got one over on him, and this guy just like doesn't give a shit anymore.

No, he doesn't really care. So he swipes a Monet, how does he do it? He stages an entire other burglary with a bunch of Romanians in a Trojan horse that cut the AC and they distract everyone. And they bring a helicopter to the land on the roof of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, which isn't allowed. She's not, she's a no-no.

They use like three different types of like inspector gadget briefcases that seem like they would come from the Spy School of the Month Club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's a distraction. It's a distraction and then he very sexily rips the Monet off the wall, puts it in a briefcase. Oh, okay. All right.

And let's talk about it. Folds it up. Folds it in half. And folds up talk about it. Folds it up. Folds it in half. And folds up the briefcase. And... He's got this continuous, like, Jerome Robbins-esque, single shot, unbroken movement. Pulling it off, stripping it off the frame. You're right. It's very elegant.

It's so elegant. Because he has to roll under the gate. And it's just very fluid movements, for sure. And then he, like, kicks the underside of the bench, and then he opens the briefcase up, and you're going, like, how the fuck bench, and then he opens the briefcase up, and you're going, how the fuck is he gonna get it in the briefcase? Then the briefcase origami style unfolds in a dimension you weren't expecting, and you're

like, now it's all the way open, he can fit it all the way in. So what's the cover? Because now the top of the painting is exposed. We're all leaning in. And then the movie just kind of cuts to a different angle. The briefcase is closed. And you know, you even see it like it cuts to a different angle and he snapped it shut. Right. And then he's off on his way with the painting. And this has like kept me up at night for, I guess, 25 years.

There should be a sound effect of wood cracking. Right. As he folds it or. Which would happen, yes. Right. Or the briefcase should be what I think of wood cracking. Right. As he folds it, or. Which would happen, yes. Right, or the briefcase should be what I think the movie's setting up. It's transformed long ways, but now has a cover. So in fact, the dimensions of the briefcase

has changed. So I've done a lot of reading about this. And I think McTiernan did talk about this at one point. He did, he did. Right, so David, correct me if I've gotten this wrong. But that cut that you singled out, Griff, is correct, because theoretically they remove, so okay, a painting, it's painted on canvas,

and then the wooden thing is called a spanner. And basically he would remove the spanner and then just fold the canvas up in the painting. And the canvas would be unharmed, and apparently there was more of this in the film and test audiences didn't like that there was a painting getting folded. Folded, yeah. And so McTiernan was like, just cut it to the bone then, just show it for a second. Interesting.

Right. Yes. Because I certainly rewound it like five times to try to track it. And when he takes it off the wall, you do see him stripping it to some degree and removing wood from around it. Oh, right, well, he's taking the frame out. He's taking it out of the frame. Sure. So then I was, like, in real time going,

oh, clever, what he's gonna do is also remove the spanner so that he can fold it just as a flat canvas, but then you don't see him do that. It makes sense that the movie is cutting out the footage of him doing that. Yeah, apparently there were also, like, knives in the briefcase that he was using to, like, remove the spanner. But then... Well, doing that. Yeah, apparently there were also knives in the briefcase that he was using to remove the spanner.

Well, that rules. But I would be very upset if you were just taking a knife to Monet. I'm not that much of an art person, so I understand the focus group of just being like, no, stop it. According to a Reddit thread that I have opened from 10 years ago, Monet's style involved

thick application of paint followed by heavy varnishing. So the folding wouldn't damage the painting and then another person here has written something which is this movie makes me want to drink wine and have sex. I think these are both good things to keep good points. This is a valuable Reddit site. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Is this in r slash Renee Russo? Where is Where is this posted? It's on our movies from 10 years ago. There's no mention of how insanely uncomfortable it would be to have sex on marble stairs, which I'm sure we're going to talk about, but my man is just experimenting. He wants to know every surface and not all of them are going to work, but then you know it for a fact. Like I couldn't have sex on marble stairs when I was 22. I know these are 40-somethings, but it's not gonna happen.

Like, you have beds, sir. You are a millionaire. They start on the floor, and that looks really uncomfortable. And then they're trying to get upstairs. I mean, at least the stairs are offering them some leverage, you know? And then the chair thing, and that's when the Fiji water happens,

which I do believe is how I learned about Fiji water. Like, I don't think that we had that in Atlanta in the 2000s or when I saw this until... Back when it was a luxury item, right? Yeah. But then, you know the face that Piers Brosnan makes after she pours the water on him He does look like he's in a little bit of pain. Yes He's like babe, maybe the stairs hurt him as well. Just know that's that's a good point

I will say like I get the sort of heat of the moment Oh the idea of this is sexy that we don't even have time to get to bed We're doing it here every time I've had sex on a surface that is not a bed, it really makes me appreciate beds. Like I'm thinking in real time, God, we don't give beds enough credit. They're kind of the backbone of society. Shout out to beds.

Yeah, so good. Okay, but I do feel that all of the back pain and the marble stair sex is worth it for the shot when McTunin does a closeup of the breasts of the sculpture in Pierce Brosnan's lobby and then zooms up to the real thing. I mean, that is fucking cinema. The sculpture is basically going like,

eh, like hell yeah. God, the nineties were a wild time to grow. Oh boy. Yes, okay, so the painting gets stolen. Who gets called? My favorite boy wearing his hair at its absolute worst. It's really, really tough. For a guy with notoriously good hair,

like what happened to Dennis Leary in like sort of 98 to 99 when he suddenly has this like out of the shower, like mop on his head. Like I don't get what it is. Do you guys remember the, the Leary sting public hair battle? No, no. What do you mean? He has sort of like sting like hair, like the classic. No, no, no. At some point the 90s when i guess leery is still doing stand-up i don't remember if it was within his actor while you know doing fucking local radio shows or whatever but within some sort of comedy context leery starts aggressively making fun in some broadcast form of sting desperately trying and failing to conquer his

aggressive male cardboard ball. Right? This guy won't let it go, this and that. I think this was during the MTV promo era of Dennis Leary. That sounds right. Yes. And Sting sort of publicly responds and is like, my friend, I look forward to checking in with you again in 20 years when you're fighting the same battle that I am. And 20 years later, Leary like hit back and was like, my friend, I look forward to checking in with you again in 20 years when you're fighting the same battle that I am. And 20 years later, Leary like hit back and was like,

look at my fucking hair, asshole. I have no idea what you're talking about. I won, I won, I won. Leary has outstanding hair, he always has. And I just don't know why he's doing it this. I mean, he's playing a deflated guy. He is supposed to be beleaguered and defeated and not able to keep up with these people.

He's on a different plane. You know, he's on a lower plane. I agree with that. I get it in principle. I do think his hair is straight up annoying to look at. Even if it characterizes him well. It looks like a 12-year-old to us. You know? Like, Dennis Leary... So this is at you know? Yes. Like Dennis Leary.

So this is at the end of a run in the nineties. Dennis Leary was in about 25 movies. Like Hollywood saw this kind of handsome Irish guy explode as a standup and was just like, he can play any copper criminal in any script ever. Like rarely a star almost always just showing up and going like, all right, listen, asshole, you know, like having a cup of coffee. Uh, I think this is one of his best performances ever. I think he's so good in this movie. And you and I look, we, we have a well established history of loving constantly going to the mat for

Dennis Leary character actor, one of the great unsung resources. We love him in The Amazing Spider-Man, which he is surprisingly, like, low-key in. Yes, that is true. A movie that, like, eats dog shit all day and all night long. Is he the dad? He's Gwen's... He's Emma Stone's dad. Yeah, so he has the joke about the Branzino, right?

Yes! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amanda? Listen, I was there. David and I argue that's his Oscar clip scene. The best supporting actor nomination he deserved for single-handedly carrying fucking amazing Spider-Man across the finish line.

It's the Branzino scene. Poor Andrew Garfield. He's so fucking, Garfield was trying. He's doing his best. But Leary's the only one who pulled it off, I would say. There's a lot of effort in that movie. Leary's the only one who pulled it off, I would say. There's a lot of effort in that movie. Leary's the only one who's actually translating throughout the entire process. But no, to your point, Leary took a couple stabs at being a leading man, and those don't

work. And almost any time Leary was called in as a supporting guy, it's like a fucking giant hit. Yeah. I mean, the ref, Ben, do you want to weigh in here? Do you have a leery take? I feel I feel you leaning in on leery. I like to stand up.

I loved all the MTV promos, of course. And I do like to like, well, yeah, I did like his smoking. I like the asshole song, of course. We all like the asshole song. Someone had to bring it up. What are the movies that he was the lead of? The Ref, like is The Ref not a movie for you? No.

See, I think he'd like The Ref. The Ref is good. You haven't seen it or you don't like it, Ben? I've not seen it. Interesting. That's a little damning in and of itself, although I do agree that Ben would like it. I don't think I've seen it either.

Interesting. The Ref, AKA Hostile Hostages, with Judy Davison, Kevin Spacey, I apologize, is a very fun crime comedy starring Dennis Leary. Yes, it's really good. David, am I wrong in remembering that there is a Dennis Leary, Jeanine Garofalo, Ireland themed rom-com that Leary maybe also wrote. That sounds familiar. The Matchmaker is the name of that movie. He did not write it.

The movie you're thinking of that he wrote is Two If by Sea with Sandra Bullock, which I've never seen, which might be good. I mean, it seems kind of fun. I watched his timeline of my career, iconic roles or whatever it was, one of those videos where they're going over all his like explosive, I was there too roles

in these beloved 90s movies. Like natural war killers or whatever. Yeah. And then every time they get to one of those vehicles, like The Ref, like Two of Picy, like The Matchmaker, which were the ones of him trying to level up to being the guy. Right, it just doesn't happen. And all of those movies he either wrote, or developed, or produced, or something like that, like the matchmaker, which were the ones of him trying to level up to being the guy. Right.

And all of those movies he either wrote or developed or produced or something like that. Every one of them he had the exact same line, which was like, we were making something really special and the studio fucked with it. Like he had this recurring narrative of, I should have had my like Jerry Maguire jump up moment. Right. And other people fucked it up every time. But then he also, what was the early FX show that he had?

Rescue Me. That was kind of his, yeah. Before Rescue Me, he had The Job. That's the shift. Right. I feel like once, The Job I loved, which was him doing Rescue Me on ABC, Oh.

in a post NYPD blue environment where he's like, can I push the limits of a little more cursing, a little more of this? And it was a little restrictive. Did you see his butt? I don't think you ever did. No, you probably saw it in Rescue Me. That show gets canceled and he goes to FX

and Rescue Me is almost a soft reboot of the job, but on cable they'll let him do more. Which is? Apart from the fact that it's on cable, 9-11 had happened. So, Rescue Me is like more laden with like, because that is one of the crucial, immediate post 9-11 texts is Rescue Me, which is a forgotten show. And if you put it on now, you would be like, how was this aired without congressional hearings, because it is, everything about it is problematic.

Like that's the point. You know, they're all they're firemen and they're up to no good. But it was a crucial post 9 11 thing. And I think that show ended on the 10th anniversary of 9 11 that became his plan where he was like, this story will end 10 years on from the day I'm looking at it. Yeah, it aired on FX from July 21st, 2004 to September 7th, 2011. But I think you're right that that gets all of that out of his system.

Yeah. Where he's like, there's a show where I'm the main creative force and I'm the lead. And now I don't feel the- He got Emmy nominations. Yeah, you know, right. Yeah, he did all that. And so he's like more comfortably

than just still doing his leery supporting parts on the side TV is his one out right right right and then they try to do the rock and roll one Which is the second worst hairdo he's ever had on camera. Yeah, that was tough. That was tough. Yeah, he's uh, look He's still around. I just love him in this because he he makes a lot of sense as a Divorced New York City cop, obviously, it's a role he played multiple times in his career, but he just like doesn't lay it on.

Like he's not doing the Dennis Leary thing. Like it's what he's actually best at is just kind of being weary. We are leary. Can I call out my favorite element of this performance? And it's just the type of acting I love the fucking most. I was on our friend's, uh, right to Tory and Jordan Fish's podcast, To The White Sea, about the Cullen Brothers,

was just talking about behavioral acting. My favorite shit in the world is when a movie, whether it's the director's idea or the actor's idea or whatever, gives the characters a menial task to do that the actor plays as more important than the actual point of the scene. Leary getting briefed by Frankie Faison, walking through the museum,

being told about the case he's now gonna have to devote his life to, while 90% of his energy is spent on trying to make his coffee with one hand. Right. He's in one hand, got creamer, stir stick, cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's trying to get it the way he wants it,

one-handedly while half listening. It's really good, yeah. He should have won all four acting categories that year for this walk in talk. He has the line of like, some of the women in here are wearing my salary. I thought that was a good line. Yeah, it's really good.

This is another smart, though, I think like McTiernan calculation. I'm giving him credit for this because it feels like the kind of thing we've heard him doing, although who knows if it originated with Wimmer or Dixon. But in a world where it'd be very easy for audience members to be like, why the fuck do I care about these two characters? Absurd levels of wealth, unbelievably carefree and beautiful, everything comes to them naturally. It helps to have the Leary constantly calling out.

All of this is ridiculous. Yes, but also Leary is still like totally insourceled by Rene Russo, which like, how could you not be? Yeah. I mean, there's like, there's the great scene when he's like driving her and he's like, are you hungry? I know a pizza place.

And then like, it's like so gently, she doesn't even say anything. And he's like, pizza's not really your thing. And then she has the iconic, you know, what's the matter, Lieutenant? Did she leave you for a stockbroker? Urologist. Yeah, but they like, and even throughout the movie, he is, the rest of the movie, he's like...

irritated by her, but also like, both impressed by her because she's good at her job, and also obviously she's like so beautiful and seductive. Like that scene after their first date where he gets the report, and he's like, oh, she went home alone. You know? And there's just like this twinge of him still thinking. But like, you need that. You need the rational person in the movie

to still be drawn to these people. To make you feel okay about the fact that like, okay, they're rich and this doesn't matter, but like, they are appealing. Yeah. Right, it's key, because he's got to sort of be a... It has to run in both directions. He has to be able to call out this entire movie is based on champagne problems.

And he also needs to acknowledge this is super fucking compelling. This is exciting and I want to watch this. It would be funny if he was picking up the phone and being like, yes, I understand your entire family was murdered, but I have to figure out who took the Monet. I'll talk to you later. I mean, it's the Swoos on Paintings call out at the end where she goes, like, did you ever care about this?

And he's like, I worked on a fucking like. Yeah, he's like, it pissed me off at first, but no, here are the real things. Right. And I was working on those cases last week. Like my life is still... Yeah. Yeah, he's, of course, he's a detective. He has many cases at the same time. So, okay, so yeah, they come in and Renee Russo arrives. She's wearing like a scarf, like she's on

dune or whatever, right? Like it's like half of her head. No, she's wearing fur. She's wearing the fur. Yeah. I guess she wears the scarf later. Yes, the scarf is later. Listen, how do you want to do the outfits? Should we just do outfit by outfit? Yes, I think so. Welcome to Amanda Dobbins's Fashion Corner.

So on this one, her first shot, it starts with her shoe, which is a high-heeled Mary Jean. And then it scans up her leg to where she's wearing a skirt with a slit. Yes, that's right. And a garter, yeah, right? And thigh-high, yeah, like thigh-highs and a garter. Which frankly, I think is like gilding the lily a little bit, even in the context of her ear, so being incredibly sexy. And Frankie Fe breaking face on, eyes are going like, whoa.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the rest of the time, she is so chic. She is wearing clothes that like, I imagined maybe like one day if I went to New York and I became the most powerful, stylish woman in the world, like this is how I would dress. But there actually is no one powerful and stylish enough in the real world to pull this off.

Like she just, it's so stylish. Lots of muted colors, but perfectly tailored coats, chunky turtlenecks, lots of turtlenecks. Yeah. Yeah. It's fall. There's a fall vibe, right? Sure. Like, amazing jackets, lots of different strands of pearls. Then, of course, there's all the Bulgari jewelry

that is gifted to her by the product placement. And she looks so incredible. And maybe it's just because I'm obsessed with this movie, but there's like, Nora Ephron, and specifically, You've Got Mail, has like a very, like a late 90s fashion thing that is now getting like imitated. There are lots of like bad Instagrams that you account. But that movie's a perfect time capsule distillation

of a fashion moment. It's like Meg Ryan is like a walking gap ad in that movie for that time period. But I kind of feel like Renee Russo is the other half of the late 90s. In this movie, it's like a very, very specific Carolyn Bessette Kennedy on steroids, incredible look. I just, I love it.

When, yeah, when she's got the blazer sort of, I don't know, what is it? It's like sort of like a corset thing, you know, like that she's wearing when she's interrogating the Romanians. That's really good. Yeah. I'm trying to think what else? I mean, the see-through dress is obviously the sort of, you know, showstopper she has. But that's, that's pinned to the breast conversationthrough dress is obviously the sort of, you know, showstopper that she has. But that's pinned to the breast conversation, which is still to come.

Keep that on the corkboard. I do think there's something to, like, she has this background as a model, right? Like, she's wearing the fuck out of those clothes. She knows how to enter a room in this movie with an outfit that would overcome a lot of other actresses. Like, you would feel them collapse under the weight of what they were wearing, or the pressure of how do I sell this like I actually feel in this, you know? And can move in it.

But even though her background is model and is like fairly high fashion, when she starts acting, I feel like, and part of this is probably the fact that she's not, like, a 20-something. She's presented as, like, this is a grounded woman. Right? We're not having the love interest in this movie be 25-year-old Sharon Stone. It's Renee Russo. She is, like, a grown-up, and she's centered. Right. And she has set off against Anna...

Yes. ...who shows up in, like, you know, Megadelia's black leather, like, or faux leather tube dresses and high combat boots and all that sort of stuff. Who is played by a supermodel. Like, that Esther Kastanidis is just a supermodel. Like, that's all. Despite the fact that Rene Russo is, like,

innately statuesque, right, and has that presence and everything. I think a lot of the movies up until this point were playing against that. And it's like putting her in more Gap clothes. Yeah. In like Major League and the Lethal Weapons and Tin Cup and everything. Yeah. This kind of feels like the first time you're like letting Renee be a clothes horse, which obviously reaches its apex in Rocky and Bulb and called the following year. Of course. But there is something about like,

if they had asked her to do this two years off of retiring from modeling, she maybe would have been like, I don't want this to define myself as an actress. I need to like build my own identity. It's so good though. Versus now you feel like her walking into these rooms and being like, I know how to fucking do this. What's the name of the villain in Tin Cup Griffin played by Don Jonathan?

David Sims. That's right. The villain's name is David Sims. Oh, is it really? Yeah, it sure is. So, you know, she works for insurance, right? She doesn't want the company doesn't want to pay 100 million bucks for a stolen Monet. So she's got to find it.

And she Googles who likes Monet. Thomas Crown comes up. Bam! She's got her man. Like that's pretty much the extent of her investigation. Well, first she has to interrogate one of the decoy thieves and violate his civil rights in multiple languages. And then figures out that they do in fact speak English. And she figures out the whole decoy. These guys really, like, don't know each other, didn't know what was going on,

were picked up on the side of the road. Yeah. A weird lack of planning or strategy in this house. Right, there was a middle man. She notices the thing in the bench that there are three legs in the video and two when they were walking around, which is the moment that finally impresses Leary

beyond just her energy of, fuck, she's picking up on shit. But also they call out that her finder's fee, basically, if she recovers a painting, is 20% of the value. It's not, it's 5%. It's five, five million bucks. Five million bucks. But even still, yes, for $100 million,

you get the sense it's a little unspoken in the movie that this is probably far and away the biggest coup she stands to pull on a furniture. She has like a pied-a-terre in the village. She's doing great. She's doing great. Yeah, yeah. She doesn't have furniture though. No, but that sets her vibe, you know. What does she need with furniture? But whatever like competitive part, the same part of Thomas Crown that wants to do this heist for sport. She's aware that she's potentially hooked the biggest fish of her career.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a point of pride in this. Um, so, uh, the cat and mouse game, uh, begins fairly quickly after this, right? There's not really a lot of, like, other characters in this film. It's, uh, you know, it's Pierce and Renee circling each other with like Leary and Frankie Faison, like on the sidelines. You got like...

And Paul? Uh, Fritz Weaver, you got Paul, you've got um... Ben Guzzara, the boy with the eight-brand. Ben Guzzara, right, yeah. But, but like, you know, a thing this movie carries over from the original, which is like, don't make it an extended cat and mouse game. She pins him almost immediately and then basically starts the attitude of like, we both know what happened here.

Can we like skip the fucking... And it becomes this game of like, we're just both not going to say the thing directly. But they even pretty quickly say it directly. Yeah. Like I'm trying to, when is it exactly when he just starts speaking? Like, I guess it's not on the first date. No.

So what's the first date? Is the first date Cipriani? Yeah, the first date is when they go to museum. When she won't sip the espresso. Right. Right. And it comes pretty quickly after. So he gives a replacement painting, right, to which is just, that's, let's put a pin in that. If you haven't seen the Thomas Crown Affair in 1999, that painting is going to

be important. So she meets him at that gala and like outright accuses him. She's just like, this is you. And then he asks her on a date immediately for the next night. And she says yes. Doesn't deny it. Doesn't even attempt to deny it really. Yeah. And so the first date, he takes her to the museum

and then to Cipriani. And she steals his keys at the museum and passes them up, puts them on a diga statue, normal stuff, and someone picks them up. And then, yeah, and they go to Cipriani and they do like backstory while the keys are being copied, which again, Griffin, I think you could cut that insert. I just-

And then I- I may be particularly specifically like key copying as a thing. Okay. Where it just works for me and I like watching it. But the espresso thing is such good like kind of fucking Hayes code flirtation screenwriting that I think like most filmmakers when you can now say anything, Right. Don't realize the effectiveness of like having that sort of coded flirtation.

Yeah. Of like, and there's, you believe that she would be more charmed by that than him saying like, so are we going back to my place? Right, right, right. To code it in, well, do you want to stay awake for another five hours or not? Right. Yeah. I just find that very hot.

I agree. Super, super hot. I would, to be clear, fuck both of these people. They're both super hot. Either of them can take me to Chipriani any time, even though the food there is terrible. Well, but this is 1999. Yeah, my memory's still pretty good.

So this is sceney, you know? And it's just like, I think it's still just like the one Chipriani in New York, as opposed to however many, like, members clubs or whatever. No, that's a good call. That's a good call. I also just want to say, I would probably pity fuck Dennis Leary.

I do it with less gusto. I would go get pizza with Dennis Leary in a second. Are you kidding me? It'd be great. And you know, he could be like, I never took any of Bill Hicks' jokes. And I'd be like, I know, I know you didn't Dennis. I know.

Okay. Yeah, okay. So yes, Cat and Mouse. Well, oh, the next thing is he lets her take the painting back, basically, right, after their first dinner. Or is it after they have sex? No, she breaks in. I know, but he's letting her do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's got the... It's got the dog's playing poker underneath. Like, it's, you know, he's... Yeah, he's one step ahead. Right, it's after the first date, because that's how she gets the keys, and she slips them back on the...

And then she shows up in, like, her insane knee-high combat boots, and they do the ten-code digit break-in, and they... And she finds, like, the button under the desk to, you know, reveal the painting. Right, he's got a secret, yeah, shelf. Yeah.

A secret painting shelf hidden behind a different expensive painting. Don't we are, yeah. But her read on the situation from very early on has been, his motivation was, you know, there are questions, why is the guy who already owns a Monet going through the trouble of stealing a Monet and serving jail time? And her read is like, he was tired of looking at that Monet. And then yes, he does this swap with the museum where to sort of make good and present a good public face,

he gives them a different painting from his own collection to fill the space while they wait to recover this stolen painting he knows nothing about. Right, but so the. SHANNON It's revealed that it's a fake painting, because the guy is like, you've got a ghost. And she tries to be like, Monet sometimes reused canvases. But they're like, did they reuse dogs playing poker? And so then I think that's when she puts on the dress and goes. Taki shit. And so then I think that's when she puts on the dress

and goes. No, after that is the passionate night. And so like, she's like, I'm that son of a bitch cut to Renee Russo in a see-through dress at a black and white gala with a red, not quite a pashmina, but like a long red silk and shawl. And she cuts in and they have an absolutely hilarious, but still sort of sexy dance.

Like it's ridiculous. And the music is ridiculous. But yeah, and they're also like, you know, trying to like shimmy a lot. And the cuts are like trying to make them look as cool as possible while they shimmy, but I don't know. The best part though is all of the extras, everyone else who's at this party is doing a very, very faithful step back and forth, side to side.

So when they finally make out, one Pierce president is like, do you want to dance or do you want to dance? Do you want to dance? do you want to dance? Do you want to dance? That was the big trailer line. And she like thinks about it for a long time. I mean, yeah. And there are just like all these people shuffling at the edge of the frame in their like dumpy black

and white outfits, just being like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, It feels like the Muppet Show at the dance scale, where the puppets are limited in how much they can dance together. Yeah, it's really good. Her ten-second reaction shot... Oh, my God, it's so long. ...of considering whether or not to kiss him... Yeah. ...is what should have single-handedly gotten her

in the best actress lineup in 1999. I know it's a tough year. She's on my ballot, baby. That fucking moment's incredible because, like, I related to in Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning, that's the end of the title. It never had part one in the title. What are you talking about?

Your memory is false. There's the moment when Tom Cruise asks Haley Atwell, are you OK? And you watch 10 seconds of her processing. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a similarly stunning, like, extended 10 seconds of actress playing a bunch of emotions only on her processing. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a similarly stunning, like extended ten seconds of actress playing a bunch of emotions only on her face. Right. But that is very expressive. Renee Russo barely moves a muscle.

And in ten seconds, you watch her go through seven cycles of thinking right about whether or not she should do it strategically and whether or not she wants to do it. Also, while like arched backwards, and a very like, you know, cause they had to set up this shot, the camera is like up above, the people are shuffling back and forth around her.

And she also keeps moving forward in increments, and then sort of stopping herself, doing another gut check before she continues. That's the power of Pilates, you know? It's fucking incredible. Here's a question to the group. When she shows up that night in that outfit, do you think what's driving her is

the moment with the dogs now has really turned her on, the level of guy she's playing with, there's something exciting and thrilling to her of like, I've met my match versus this guy is good, I need to step up my game and playing the act of seducing him in order to nab him or both operating at equal levels at that moment. I think she's just kind of like, it's on now.

Like this is really, he ups it to a level and she's like, okay, like if this is how you wanna play, then this is like how we're gonna play. But it's also an aphrodisiac, right? Yeah, oh, of course, of course. But I think that's like, their whole thing is like, this is all one big turn on to them, right? You know, this is what they, there are two people who really enjoy the hunt. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. They are, it's less cat and mouse and more like cat and cat or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. But you basically then roll into, I think a lot of movies attempt to do, and I think often if you're too far into ridiculousness or feeling like porny of we are going to convey to you one week of these two characters having the most insane sex imaginable. They just cannot tear themselves off of each other. And it's awesome. You believe it.

You do believe it. No, no, they're... This is the most fun they're having. It's like, you know, of course there's the element of like, this can't last forever, right? She's chasing him, blah, blah, blah. But it's the initial insane passionate sex marble steps, Fiji water, and then the Martinique, like, adventure. Okay, well, we skipped the glider. Is the glider in between?

Okay, the glider first. Yes, because here's what happens. Okay, so basically, they do the glider, and then they, like, land in some random field because that's what happens when you do a glider, which is one land in some random field because that's what happens when you do a glider, which is one of the many reasons I'm confused by gliders. And so he calls someone to pick them up and then they get on the plane and she says that island isn't Manhattan, you know, because instead of going back to the city, they go to Martinique.

But yeah, so the glider, I guess the glider is supposed to be like, the romance moment of this, and also it is an homage to the original. It's an homage, right. My wife was like, what is this? Why would anyone get in one of these? Like, no, that is my question. Like, what's up with gliders?

Why are people doing that? David, as someone who hates planes, do you find gliders more or less terrifying? I mean, I'm not getting in a glider, but like, like, I assume the point of a glider as not not someone who uses them, is that it's like without the noise and business of airplane engines, you really feel like you're flying, right? Like, it's

like, you're not like you don't feel like you're being held up there by machinery. Oh, you're just like swooping. You're swooping in the air and isn't this wonderful? I kind of like respect gliders because I respect that planes are designed to stay in the air, right? Like, which is something I think about when I'm afraid of flying is like, they're aerodynamically supposed to be in the air

and that's what a glider is, right? Like stays in the air, right? But no, I would not get in a glider. Jesus. I mean, it stays in the air until it doesn't, right? This is true. That's one thing I would be thinking about. Aren't you gliding down?

Like, isn't the point? Like, because I mean, that's what happens in the movie is that they just, they glide for a while. And I had to tell you, it's like when the Bill Conti score is like at its peak. And also it's fall in New York, you know, don't you just love fall in New York? I want to send you some freshly sharpened pencils. Like, it's really beautiful scenery. Yes.

So they got that. And that is, that's powerful. As someone who relocated from the East coast and we don't have that kind of fall Anymore like I appreciate having that on like like on camera another thing you've got male captures very yeah, it really does But but this is maybe I mean somewhere within this sequences when they start layering in windmills in my mind Yes, the first time yeah, is that correct? that correct? They pay auditory homage to it. I love that in, I think the nudity in the sex scene is very like hot and natural, but even hotter is the,

she's just walking around topless stuff in Martinique. Yeah, so. Like that's powerful. You don't see that in movies a lot. It's like that plus the red hat. Oh, the hat. This movie is important to me for many reasons. And it has like all of the things that I love in a movie.

Hot people, heists, New York, like a sense of fun, filming on location. But it's the Martinique scene. And that is like my dream vacation, vacation home. Like that is, it's perfect. There's no one else around. He unveils a closet of clothes that are cut just, you know, are gonna fit her.

He starts cooking. The perfect blue shutters, the bougainvillea, the view. Then she makes it down to the beach wearing a red hat, a towel, and no top. Just absolute legend in the game. Like, it's just... And then they have that sexy dinner... Yeah. ...where he's like, do you want to open this unmarked paint,

like, crate that has a painting in it? And she puts it in the fire, and then they just, like like stare at each other. Just like that is some of the hottest shit. This prolonged hymn saying. That I've seen in a movie for a long time. The extended hymn saying, do you want to see it? You sure you don't want to see it? Can I show it to you? It's just. As if he's like a fucking 15 year old boy. It's really, really, really good stuff. Right. But it's so much more elevated.

I mean, this is the section of the movie where they catch feelings. Yeah. Where it like evolves from just being the hottest weekend in the world to, oh fuck, we care about this more than we ever want to admit to ourselves or each other. She's realizing that he is getting ready for his escape and so she's confronted with like, oh, he might not be around for much longer. Well, and the great dialogue exchange where she kind of looks at him

and like the game recognize game way and goes like, man, this must fucking hit every time you bring someone here. And he just says, I don't bring other people here in a way that is guileless, that isn't like him trying to convince her. You don't think it's a lie. You don't think it's like just him buttering her up. Disney just announced that Moana 2 is gonna come out in November, guys. him trying to convince her. You don't think it's a lie. You don't think it's like just him buttering her up.

Disney just announced that Moana 2 is gonna come out in November, guys. Just FYI. I'm sorry. Wait a second. I know. I had to tell you. I'm sorry and I know we have to wrap up soon. There was a second Moana film that has quietly been made that is coming out within this calendar

year. That is correct. That is correct. Thanksgiving Moana 2, an animated film. And then there's also still live action Moana happening? I mean, who knows, but, you know. Did you see that Moana is still the most watched movie on all of streaming for like the six consecutive years?

I've contributed many a viewing of that. Yeah, the children, they love it. I thought that I've still never seen Moana. Oh, it rules. Wait, you have a kid. I guess he's only two. Yeah, no. So here are the, Knox has seen three movies in his life. Would you like to know what they are? Singing in the Rain. Number one, Singing in the Rain. Number two, Mary Poppins. Number three, Top Gun Maverick. I mean, he's back to three for three. Keeping it real. All right. My values are being handed down to Knox. Amanda, I'm completely the same.

The first thing I showed my kid was Ponyo. Like I am also like trying to show her things she likes, but you are about to enter an era of them being able to be like that. It's true. I got it. I want that. I got a picture from him at the playground today and he was like holding a bluey something that some other kid had brought.

And I was like, you don't know what Bluey is, but I know what it is. You're gonna love Bluey. Just, you really should start with... Am I? Yes, Amanda, and when you do, start texting me about it, please, because I know everything about Bluey.

Here's what, right now, we're obviously a Sesame Street family. And then also... And then Snoopy, and,opy and the Charlie Brown specials have become a big hit because Charlie Brown Christmas is like his favorite thing that he's ever seen. I'm counting that as a TV show and not a movie. If you count that as a 30-minute movie,

then he's seen four films. No, I think TV special. TV special, yeah. He also, he's gotten into Snoopy through finding Snoopy in the vestibule, right? That was the entry point? Yeah, well, thank you to Netflix who did send a stuffed Snoopy to our house

and that sleeps with him every night. Okay. So... That was the entry point. Yeah, that was. I don't know. Moana too. I thought the young woman whose name I can't remember

who is the voice of Moana. It was very good in Mean Girls. I think she's a real talent. She's great. I love her. Yeah. I just, David, I feel like you back this up. Anecdotally, everyone I know with a child of a certain age is like the overlap in the Venn diagram of movie my kid wants to watch a million times and movie I'm least annoyed by watching a million

times. Moana is right in the center. Yeah. Moana is a really easy watch. And, and it's a great movie, as we've discussed on this very podcast. It had its own episode. Wait, who's directing this sequel? I didn't even think of that. Probably not Musker and Clements. No, I'd imagine not. Uh, anyway, so to... Honestly, we're kind of close to the end after Martinique,

because what... I guess what's left after that is the only part of Thomas Crown Affair I don't like. He offers her 10 million... Yeah. ...to drop it. And so, like, at that point, they are fully acknowledging it, like, you know, and they also had some, like, pillow talk when they're both totally naked in bed,

which, did you, either of you guys watch season three of The Morning Show? No. Have you heard about Jennifer Aniston's nude scene? Yes, with John Hamm? No, it's not totally nude, but basically they are, they are ripping off that shot in Thomas Crown Affair where she is like fully draped over him in bed.

And some lids are flowing. And it's like, and it's well lit. So that happens and they talk about thievery in bed. And then he's like, I'll give you 10 million to come away with me. And she's like, you know, but we'd be on the run. And he like offers to teach her how to hide the money. I was looking forward on the quotes page,

but there's the line he has in response to that., where he's like we'd be on the run with resources We'd be fugitives with means. Yes, that makes a big difference Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah as soon as she comes back is when leery gives her the photos of him with Anna right which I just have no patience for because I just the the thing in the thing in any movie where she's like What is this picture and he's like I can explain and she's like, what is this picture? And he's like, I can explain.

And she's like, you know what? You know what? I don't want you to explain and I'm leaving right now. And he's like, but I literally, the words, she's my daughter are the next words out of my mouth. And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to hear it. You know, like, and so we have to wait 20 more minutes

until he reveals, yes, this is my like adopted the art for daughter. I like Yeah, like my legal board. I like the twist of her being the forger. Yeah, it's a good twist. Yeah, it's good. And the paternal pride of the guy in jail smiling at his daughter's work. The fucking great Mark Margolis.

When they first talk about the photos, they're in the car and she's like, Jimmy, pull over. And he says, Jimmy, keep driving. And I just really feel for Jimmy, the driver, in that, really, what are you supposed to do? No right choices, yeah. Yeah, it's very uncomfortable. He eventually stops and he listens to her neighbors,

which is, I do think, the right thing to do. Yeah, but I must be uncomfortable for Jimmy. But I do think, yeah, there's the unspoken code if you're a good private driver of like, look, if a woman says she wants to get out of the car, you let her out of the car, right? Yeah, exactly. She gets out of the car, like Central Park or whatever. Right. But I mean, this is the frustrating part of like every rom-com where the two characters

get in a fight about a lie. Exactly. And then you're just like, how long until they get back together? Yeah. This movie has the advantage of they need to stay in each other's orbit because of the actual things happening, even if there's tension between them. But the original Thomas Crown, it sets up this final gambit of...

Well, I was just gonna say, in the movie's defense and in, like, Renee Russo's defense of these photos, like, the way that Thomas Crown is dancing with Anna at the gala before she interrupts is like, a little more intimate than I would want my prospective partner to be with his supermodel. I think so. Do you know what I'm saying? I would agree.

Like there's a little bit more of a suggestion of something grown up there. He's not a hundred percent vindicated by the reveal. I just... The vibes were weird between them. Yeah, and it's like, when she comes, shows up the next time, and she's just sitting in her little tube top dress on his bed, like, it's very confusing.

It's not a full Sixth Sense, now I replay it in my mind, and there was no one there, and nothing was happening. There's like a full Sixth Sense now I replay it in my mind and there was no one there and nothing was happening. There's like a lot of nuzzling in that, in basically every interaction they have. Which, again, she's European, but I don't know. But the thing I like about the Art Forger twist is that it does show his strength of character that there's a reason why he won't explain it to Renee Russo.

The longer it goes on, you're like, if he has an excuse, why wouldn't he tell her? And it's because there's another person he needs to look out for. But no, she goes right to Denis Leary. She's like, he's gonna steal another painting. I have the pictures of the corners. Right, it's going to steal another painting. And I have the pictures of the corners, right?

It's time to go. And the last, and then we go right into the, um, you know, the, the McGreets son of man, uh, bowler hat heists, like the, the, the wonderful final heists of the film. I was just going to say the original film has this ending that I could not even, uh, explain in detail, but basically Thomas Crown sets a morality trap for her where he tells her the plans of the next crime he's going to do and then sets this test of like, if you try to stop me, then I'll know it's this and

if you don't, it's that. And he's putting her in the position of either like, you run away with me or you catch me. And then ends up to be a red herring. And he like leaves her a message in a way that makes it clear that he does love her, but he's running away so that she doesn't get tagged with his crime. I watch this like, not having seen it in a bit, trying to remember how they shake out the ending, where there's a similar thing of like, how does he not make her culpable?

Right, right, right. How could they possibly find a happy ending for each other? That I do think this movie sets up well, a very complicated way of being able, basically, for the characters to have their cake and eat it too. Yes. That doesn't feel like a cheat. And also feels like pretty exhilarating in the moment. Like the final set piece with the Magritte throwback and then all the people in bowler

hats is just, it's like very funny and memorable. And then cut to, he sets off some smoke bombs or something. I don't understand why he needs to set off the smoke bombs if he's just going to hit the fire alarm, but maybe the sprinklers aren't activated unless there's smoke anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And he's jammed the track of the painting protection, whatever, so that...

With? With his pencils. With Crown Enterprises pencils. Freshly sharpened pencils. Yeah, just really great. Freshly sharpened pencils. Are they sharpened though? They look pretty fucking sharp to me.

Okay, so the sprinklers go off on the Pizarro that he loaned to the museum, and it turns out that the Pizarro was a forgery in water paint done over the original Monet that he stole. And so the water paint gets washed away by the sprinklers, and the Monet is right there back on the wall. He had returned it almost immediately after he stole it. The layers of this are so much fun.

And in a way, as we were saying, it's more impressive that the movie is able to make you understand all of this without any wind-up or, like, post-heist explanation. But that you think the movie is presenting for you, oh, it's a reverse heist. The thing he needs to do to dig himself out of this is to somehow get the painting back in its original spot without anyone catching him, which would then prove

that he stole it in the first place. Right. Which already is a fun twist in a heist movie. And then you realize that's never what actually was going on. It was there the whole fucking time. He just needs the theatrical circumstances to reveal what has been the case for a long time.

Right. Which rules. It's so good. He does steal another painting, of course, but she returns it, so I guess no harm, no foul. Right. And they don't even bother explaining how he stole it. Yeah, which I think is smart.

There was some notion of, I think, this sequence being longer, and McTiernan was like, who cares? At this point, you're, this sequence being longer and McTiernan was like, who cares? At this point, you're more invested in the fun and in the romance. But that's also, I was gonna say, it's his final I love you, which is, I'm giving you a painting that you can return

so you can get the fee that I deprived you of from wrapping you up in my complicated thing. Right, though she does say that her people don't represent that one. So I think she's still going to find a way to get a commission off of that. I guess so. I mean, my main issue is the way that she returns it is that she is like absolutely heartbroken at JFK and just hands it over to the United Airlines lady and is like, can

you just like give this multi-million dollar painting back? Can I buy a seat for this painting? And then she's just like the very nice person at the ticketing gate at JFK is like, sure, but it won't get there till tomorrow. And she's like, that's fine. And I'm like, this painting does not need to go in JFK lost and found overnight. You know, like we've all had experiences. I don't have a lot of confidence that it's actually getting back to the police chief. Yeah.

My read when she calls out that it's not one of the galleries that she represents or whatever, that it's like, if he stole another painting that would directly be under her purview, he'd be making her more complicit. Right. Versus her just kind of being able to now be a good Samaritan. Right. And also now it's like not her problem,

so she can go and like, you know, hang out with him if she wants. It's her own kind of morality test of what she does. Right. We already talked about Dennis basically hand-waving the whole thing perfectly, like the great little bit of screenwriting. But I love her reaction to Thomas on the plane is initially like screaming and throttling him.

It's annoying. Yeah. Not just like, oh, breezy. Great. Let's go. You know. So can I ask now that those paintings have been returned, is he in the clear? Does he have to go to a non-extradition country? Like what, you know.

Great question. He's probably in the clear. I think trying to prove it would be it would be like what's the crime at a certain point like I think that's real Messaging of the final leery scene as much as it's about his character in their relationship He's also saying like these are victimless crimes right that were done for this guy's amusement Everything has now basically been reset to the way it needs to. Like if anyone had pointed a gun at anyone in this movie, it would be a little different.

But no one does. Like the worst crime he commits is like breaking the Mets air conditioning system, which is rude of him. But, you know, that that's about it, I think. But also, like all the game pieces are reset on the board now. So you're really gonna waste, like, taxpayer dollars prosecuting and investigating... Right.

...to perfectly horny people. Right. Let them talk. Your honor. Yeah. No, it's what I like about that scene where he's like, this is a waste of my time... Right. ...to follow this any further. No, totally. And like, in the context of the movie,

it's a very elegant way of making everyone feel okay about rooting who they're rooting for. And like, and making you feel okay that you're not that worried about the stakes cause like I'm not, it's just, it's a pain cause everyone's gonna be fine. But I'm just like, are they on the run now? I don't think so.

Like, does he have access to all his assets? Like, maybe it's just a New York thing and in Europe, people aren't going to care. If they are on the run, it is a very lush run that they're on. Like, they can go to many countries probably and enjoy a fine life. My read is that the coup he pulled off is that the end result is they don't need to be on the run. Right. Right. Maybe they don't want to flaunt everything they're doing loudly.

No, yeah, it's true. Because they are still chasing down the forager. Right. You know? So it's like, and Dennis Leary even is kind of just like, I mean, we have to, you know, I'll do what they tell me, we have to follow these things. He's like, you didn't think we just gave up on the forger. But it's like, it doesn't, and the museum guy is pretty pissed off. You know, like they've shut down the impressionist wing so that he can't just walk in and put it back

because they have been insulted, you know? So I like, I don't know if the museum is gonna drop it necessarily because it doesn't set a good example, right? It's a terrible example. I would say it's a terrible example. But I also I imagine it's a little bit like a like a lost dog poster. Sure. That adds like no questions asked underneath.

Right. Okay. They're like, you know what, in the greater good of the thing, even if we know that you're like running a con on us, and we're paying you money to give back what you stole. We'd rather just have everything where it's supposed to be no harm, no foul. Fair enough. Yeah, but it's also, it's like the,

it's the fugitives with resources line, where I think part of it too is like, this guy is so high level in society, so rich, that like normal laws kind of don't apply to him as long as there are no loose ends to what he did. Everyone's just gonna go like, whatever. He plays by a different set of rules. I do of course want to note they of course did not shoot in the Met because the Met doesn't

want that. So they built the Met. But a lot of location stuff in this movie that is very nice. Didn't they use the New York Public Library for like some of the- Some of the exteriors, sure. Yeah, or the, I think that they, I think they used the Met for the exteriors, but maybe some of like the lobby stairwell stuff.

That makes sense, yeah, the really impressive stuff. When he walks in and is like, let's play ball, you know? It's like, that isn't a set, right? Like that's a lot of stonework. I don't know. No, you're right. I mean, it's something. that isn't a set, right? Like, that's a lot of stonework. I don't know. No, you're right. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Are they building marble staircases for... Well, yeah, what's that apartment of his?

Yeah, exactly. But a townhouse. You know, that Monet is not at the Met. You have to go to Cardiff to see it. Maybe one day I will. Well, you should play the box office game. Griffin, is there anything else? Can I just say, I just say one thing? Yes.

So he pulls it off. He does. He does it. Yeah. It pains me to have to admit this, but I don't think that if it were me, that I would be able to pull it off normally. You could do the heist. Right, right.

Ben tends to watch any heist movie or crime movie where things go wrong. And be like, I could, you could have navigated that. His famous line is, if it had been me. I would end up with an island. The movie would end with me owning an island. Okay. And so this is very big and mature of Ben

to admit that the movie heist is better than what he could pull off. It's very, very clever, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it requires a level of art history knowledge. And I don't think I could fit under that gate, so, you know... Right, yeah. I'm impressed. I have to... Okay. It's very big of you, Ben.

This, as we said, comes out, sleep success, a sleeper success to the extent that it totally masks the odor of Thirteenth Warrior coming out in the same month. And the experience is so good. I feel like McTiernan talks about this as being his favorite of his movies. And definitely feels like, in an alternate universe, this is the career transition point, where the next phase of his career is making these types of high-class adult thrillers. And instead, he goes, well, this works so well,

why don't I try to replicate the same circumstances of this movie as much as I can, re-up with MGM for another Norman Jewison remake, and he does, to disastrous effects. Um, but this movie comes out on the box office game weekend. Does it not, David? It does. It comes out, uh, the same weekend, August 6th, 1999 as what's the film Griffin? The Sixth Sense.

The Sixth Sense, uh, which is what originates the box office game as a segment on our podcast covering Sixth Sense very early on where I tried to see if I could guess what else opened Because I remember it being this multi-car pile-up weekend, right? We're a bunch of stuff went out and everything kind of underperformed other than six cents. Yeah, what's number three? What number one is Thomas crown is opening number four it opened to 14 million dollars, but it legged out to 70 125 worldwide it was a sleeper hit. It's the only one that actually held on. Because the other, I know these are all out of the five.

The other movies that bombed this weekend are Mystery Man, Iron Giant, and Dick. Yes. Oh, Dick, I remember. Three great movies all bombing hard. Number two would have been a holdover from July. Number two has been in the, it's, yeah, it's been out for a month. What's the movie? Is it is it Blair Witch? The Blair Witch Project? Yeah. All right. Okay.

Biggest movies of the year, obviously. And another horror film. People are having some summer horror with Sixth Sense and Blair Witch Project. But number three is a movie that I saw in theaters, romantic comedy. Amanda, you may have seen it in theaters. Star-driven. Is it a movie, David, with the most successful joke

in the history of cinema? The most successful line reading I've ever seen delivered in a movie theater, yes. Runaway Bride. Yep. Hector Elizondo's FedEx Joke, of course, is what I'm referring to. David says he has never to this day seen a warmer reaction to anything from an audience

in his life. You know when he went insane when he made that joke. What's the joke? Tell the joke again. It's, you know, when she does the Runaway Bride, right? Like she finally does it. She gives you, you're not sure if she's going to do it. And then she runs away and jumps onto a FedEx truck. And I think Jolie Fisher, no, Rita Wilson, sorry, not Jolie Fisher says, where's she going? And Elizondo says, I don't

know, but she'll be there by 10 30 tomorrow. And the audience went insane. Do you like runaway bride, Amanda? No, not really. It's okay. It's okay, but I mean, you're right that I saw it this opening weekend. When in 99 does Notting Hill come out? Notting Hill came out a little earlier, right? May.

Oh, well let's see. I think Notting Hill is May and Runaway Bride's end of July. Yeah, correct. Notting Hill's not even in the box office list anymore, rude. It had its run. It had its run. So number three, Runaway Bride, number four, Thomas Crown.

Number five, Ben, we were just talking about this movie. Oh my God, you love the song from it. The two of you were talking about this without me? No, you were there too. You were there too. I was there too. Ben loves there too. I was there too. Ben, what's the song? A rapper is in the film and he has a song attached

to this film, Griffin and Ben. Yeah, of course. It's a song that's been sort of lodged in my brain since I heard it the first time. It's kind of been in your head like a shark's fin. Sort of at the top of my head as if it were a shark's fin. Which LL Cool J says his head looks like a shark spin. My hat is like a shark spin.

My hat, sorry, sorry. I don't have the line committed to memory the same extent you do. Yeah, so Deep Blue Sea, I don't know where you are on Deep Blue Sea, Amanda, if you're anywhere. Is that the one where, is it Sam Jack? Sam Jack, yeah. Sam Jack gets eaten like very dramatically?

I mean, that's where I am on that. Fun movie, yeah. Number six is Mystery Men. Number seven, Inspector Gadget, reboot Inspector Gadget with Gertrude Newman. Number eight, The Haunting. Number nine, new this week, The Iron Giant completely tanking.

Insane. And number 10, American Pie. And Dick doesn't even make the 10. Dick opens at 11 or 12. No, Dick is opening number 12 behind the 12th weekend of The Phantom Menace. Brutal. Pretty brutal. Great movie, Dick. Very funny movie. And one of the most exciting box office weekends of all time.

We've done it before. Will we do it again? We might be done. This is the good question. Will any filmmaker bring us back to this weekend? This might be the final time we ever talk about. It's fuck. He also did the craft and he did Hamlet to Andrew Fleming. Andrew Fleming. Yeah, maybe we'll do an Andrew Fleming series. Yeah, I don't know whether...

Throw him on a bracket. I have to believe those are black checks. Sure. Yeah. We could do a one episode Kinka Usher series. We could for Mystery Men, but yeah, we're probably winding down on this weekend. We could do Blair Witch on Patreon.

It's not new this week, not new. I'm talking about new movies this week. So, you know, it's a great movie. So good that, as I said, McTernan wrote a sequel in prison called Thomas Crown and the Missing Lioness. So let's game that out a little. Can we? All right. Let's also call out quickly in like, I think, 2007, when McTiernan is at a low,

close to getting sentenced. Yes. MGM announced we're doing a Thomas Crown Affair sequel. We've hired Paul Verhoeven to direct with Pierce returning the The female lead, we're going to cast either Charlize Theron or Angelina Jolie, who are the two people in talks. And it was a remake of Tupacchi. They were doing it Die Hard style, taking another script and turning it into a Thomas Crown sequel.

I do kind of feel that that is Pierce turning on someone at a low moment. I think so too. That's tough, but also, as you guys will get into McTiernan, sort of, you know, he made some choices. And then he was living with those choices. I don't know how you have this movie end this way and not bring Renee back for the series.

I agree. That's almost a greater offense to me. It would stink. But the McTiernan, the Verhoeven of it was exciting as an idea. So the missing lioness. Yes, that's what it was called. It was about some lioness statues from 1100 BC, apparently. Oh, great.

1100 BC? Yes. Okay. So I assume it's them stealing them or something. I don't know. Or maybe someone else stole them, and then they have to help find it, or they're trying to find it to outwit them.

It's sort of like an Ocean's 12, uh, what's the Night Fox situation, you know, where you've got two thieves up against each other? A heist off. Yeah, that could be fun. We should note, of course, that could be fun. We should note, of course, that Michael B. Jordan supposedly was going to reboot. Right, yeah.

This is Thomas Crown. And he's in a similar position to Pierce, where it's like, I have a franchise at MGM. They want to keep me in house. What do we have the rights to that we could refit around you? Right. They keep making it sound like every year begins with, this is the year that Michael B. Jordan, Thomas Crown Affair is finally going to go into production.

And it's been that for seven or eight years, but they seem adamant that it's actually going to happen this year. Well, I'll believe it when I see it. We'll see. I like Michael B. Jordan. I just, him doing something like that successfully would be exciting because he hasn't really done that successfully. I like Michael B. Jordan a lot

and I think he has a lot of charm and charisma. And I guess, you know, they could, the nice thing about this Thomas Crown affair is that he is like debonair in a way that is like kind of like Bond but actually more fitted to to Pierce Brosnan's vibe than Bond is. So, you know, I'm sure they can fit it to Michael B. Jordan's vibe. That said, I don't know if I think he's like really good at acting, so that is tough. I wonder if he can, how many movies does he have sexual charisma in, you know?

And it's like, that's gonna be crucial to a Thomas Crown movie. But should he be expressing that more often than his work? Is that one of the reasons a lot of his career hasn't lived up to what we thought? If he can, like, if he can, he should, and I'd like him to. Amanda, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much for having me.

A true honor. A long-time dream. Such a fan of your work. Thank you so much. Such a fan of Big Picture. I'm such a fan of BlinkCheck. I'm really excited to be here. Also, thank you as always for answering my texts

about animated films. We were giving you some tips on what was gonna get nominated. Yeah, and what I should pick whenever I need you guys You're right there. It's like a phone of friends situation I just want to call out if you revisit the text thread and scroll I called out robot dreams a surprise you did and David shot it down as like yeah That's some lights camera Jackson shit. Okay, see shit

But no people liked it people liked it. People liked it. I forget what, what, turtles got snubbed? What got snubbed in the end? Was it turtles that got those? This was my argument. I mean, once again, revisit the text thread. I said there's no way they will let themselves nominate turtles and Spider-Verse in the same year.

Yeah, well, you know. Okay. And you were right. That was my stance. It's just like the same space. It seems like a perfectly solid five, except for elemental. Uh, anyway, you know. Yeah, I think that was good.

No. Now, I have maybe been setting up the perfect heist in this episode, which is I have another podcast record that I need to get to across town, so I need to exit the studio as quickly as possible. I am now assigning Ben and David with doing the outro. All right, I'll do it. Oh, wow. Okay. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you to Lay Montgomery and The Great American Novel for a theme song,

Joe Bohn and Pat Reynolds for artwork, AJ McKeon and Alex Barron. Check out the Reddit for real nerdy shit. Why do we keep plugging that? He's gotta cut that. And as always, sex on a marble staircase. All right, we're done.