Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Wind Rises

Episode Date: November 3, 2019

On the final episode of our mini series devoted to the filmography of Hayao Miyazaki, #thetwofriends discuss 2014's The Wind Rises. Together they examine Miyazaki's relationship to aviation, existential crises like the meaning of life, the controversy surrounding this film and more! 

Which would you choose? A world with podcasts or a world without? What do you mean? Humanity has always dreamt of flying, but the dream is cursed. My aircraft are destined to become tools for slaughter and destruction. I know. But still, I choose a world with podcasts in it. Yeah!

Which world will you choose? Yeah! World with podcasts in it! That's the question! I don't think our podcasts are going to be used for war you choose? Yeah. World with podcasts in it. That's the question. I don't think our podcasts are going to be used for war. Yet. Yet. Maybe torture.

Yet. Exactly. Like Zero Dark Thirty. Uh-huh. Crank up the blank check. Yeah. Might be used as evidence against me. Right.

It's been an hour and 15 minutes. They still didn't even start discussing the movie. Why are they chewing so much on Mike? It's been an hour and 15 minutes and they still haven't even started discussing the movie. Why are they chewing so much on Mike? They only had 45 minutes with Lulu Wong and they spent it talking about Britney Spears. Keep going. Better be thinking twice about naming names. Yes, our podcast is Considered Warfare and that podcast is blank check with griffin and david i'm griffin i'm david it's a podcast about filmographies directors of massive success early on in their

career given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want sure sometimes those checks clear sometimes they bounce baby and sometimes the filmmaker takes the second check and then founds an entire studio so that they can make whatever they want to totally follow their whims and then at the end of a career marked by kind of unparalleled artistic

success and freedom he takes a long look in the mirror and questions whether he ever should have done any of it. It's pretty good, right? I can't deal with this fucking movie. No? I can't deal with this guy. I can't.

I can't. Who is Miyazaki? I thought I kind of had it figured out, and I can't. I can't. Oh, my God. Ben and I were talking about how we don't know how to talk about this fucking thing. Oh, really? You guys are idiots.

We're idiots? Idiots. I have a big mustache. Calling us an idiot. Idiots. Macer's on the films of Hayao Miyazaki. Hell yeah. It's called Howl's Moving Podcast.

Hell yeah. And we're on our final episode. Hell yeah. For The Wind Rises, which was meant to be his final film. Right. We're doing a little bonus for the documentaries. You know, was it meant to be his final film? I. We're doing a little bonus for the documentaries. You know, was it meant to be his final film? I just, I don't believe that shit anymore.

Because you could say it about like so many of his movies. This one feels like a final movie. That's what I was going to say. And also when it came out, I feel like everyone responded like, I think he means it this time. And I think they responded that way because of the finality. Content of the movie right and of course his advancing age

right and then they like briefly shut the studio down right Takahata had died Takahata dies later yeah you know the studio did get shut down it was one of those sort of things where he was like well I wasn't saying we were going to shut it down

for good but also seemed like there were money troubles. Yeah. I don't know. That may have also been business related. But he definitely, he retired. He retired. Yeah. But then Neon retired again.

He has a question to ask us. How do you live? How do you live? Right? It's like. And my answer after watching this movie is. I don't know. I don't know.

Yeah. Not comfortably. I think. Not with any peace of mind. A level of nuance that just makes me want to fold into myself and die. Thank you, Ben. You have perfectly verbalized my existential crisis watching this movie, where I was like, I just don't know how to deal with anything. Everything is too complicated.

You have revealed a level of nuance and forced me for three months to get introspective of things that I cannot solve internally. Things that will wrestle inside me for the rest of my life. However many more minutes

that lasts. No, but it's like, he's like he's like well art you know creative suffering work is it all worth it and it seems like this new one he's doing he's like i'm retired and he's like what about living is that worth it yeah i mean i could about human existence i could use that pick me up now i'll say that i wish that movie was coming out tomorrow i think it's coming out next year. Yeah. If he's making a movie that's just like,

boy, is it great to be alive. I don't know if it's going to have like a sort of singing in the rain style buoyancy. I'm hoping. I mean, didn't I read this quote to you? I can, Toshiro Suzuki, the producer, said that he is working on How Do You Live as a way of saying to his grandson, Grandpa is moving into the next world soon, but he will be leaving this film behind because he loves you.

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, that should be the reason for like any Marvel movie. What if Kevin Feige just came out and he's like, we're making Thor 4 because I'm moving on into the next world soon. Yeah. I love you. Kevin Feige fans would be like, fuck you! Is Heimdall back?

Yeah. I'll be moving on to the next world, running for senator. Hey. That's the question. What does Feige do whenever he's done with Marvel? There was a point in time where everyone's belief was like, he will

finish his Marvel run and then try to take over Star Wars. Because he's apparently a big Star Wars fan, and he would want to deal with that sandbox. But now I wonder if for him it's fucking worth it. The Marvel run is so successful in a way that is unparalleled and

star wars has been so fraught with ups and downs despite being some of the highest grossing films in history right uh that i think he'll just be like i'm gonna do this marvel thing until i become president of the united states i mean right he's probably all right i just feel like he can't move on to any other i in the entertainment industry. Nor am I particularly excited at the idea of anyone being president. Really, but certainly any

big shot rich person. But he'd probably be fine. He'd be like, I don't know. He'd just sit there. Wouldn't bother me. Do a PowerPoint every six months. Wear baseball caps yeah he'd get a different baseball cap for every state right yeah i need to swap them out i don't know he'd talk some moderately exciting sort of young politicians into like being his cabinet

members and then you'd be like oh they kind of lost their edge but i mean there's a lot of competency here you know what i mean like maybe America, he'd be like, Marvel, competent. Not too challenging. America can be that again. Like, that would be his pitch. And there'd be a bunch of people. You know, America right now, it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There'd be a bunch of people in his cabinet where you were like, oh my God, I thought she was going to be like the next great politician.

She's sort of gotten stuck in housing and it feels like they don't know what to do with her. She's under contract. No major screw-ups. She doesn't have a ton to do. Alright, so Feige for president. I don't know. Nothing matters anymore. Marvel's an American success story

I suppose. I never get that. I hate businessmen and women. story, I suppose. I never get that. I hate businessmen and women, mostly, obviously men, when they're like, America should be run like a business, and I run a good business, so won't I run it? Why should America be run like a business? When has America ever been run like a business? I'm ready to tackle it.

This is the very fundamental ready to tackle it This is the very fundamental issue with the American dream America get ready to get roasted Call Boston Market Cause I'm roasting this turkey ass right now Okay Ben Franklin is spinning in his grave

On a spit roast cause I'm roasting him baby I'm doing him, baby. I'm doing a roasting motion. This is the problem. Yeah. I feel a majority of Americans interpret the American dream as I can become a billionaire. Aha. Right. That becomes the greatest aspiration.

No matter my circumstances, I could succeed to great wealth. America does not have aristocracy in the same sort of sense. We're finally getting to a level where now there are enough storied moneyed families. But still, there was the idea that anyone could become a billionaire tomorrow. America, land of opportunity. Right, so. You could strike gold. Right.

That's true. The majority of Americans. Guys, I heard about some gold. You guys want to go strike it? The Matthew McConaughey one? I'd love to strike up a new print. I'd love to see that in 35. Would you?

The problem is, as Stephen Gagin intended. Did he? Director of Dr. Doolittle. Yeah, that's true. Which will be coming out 2074. Yeah, right. You just got to get that squirrel back. You ran away.

I think people like the idea of America being run like a business because they're like, man, people work for businesses, make a lot of money. Yeah, sure. And everyone votes against their, not everyone, too many people vote against their best interest because they're like, well, I want to be protected once I make my million. I'll make my million like two years from now. And then I don't want to have to pay any

taxes. Well, that's silly. If that's what people are doing. That's more like an American nightmare. You know what I'm saying? Let's splash some cold water on that face. Waking up. I'm doing a kind of a leaning on my hand, tell me more sort of nightmare.

Fucking hell. Why are we talking about this? Because this is what Miyazaki does. What does he do? What, discombobulates you? Yes. To the point that you're wondering why Americans vote against their self-interest? Yes.

I don't know what to do with this movie. Really? Yeah. So you watch this movie. It's called The Wind Rises. I did watch it. You hadn't seen it before. I had not.

You've been ruminating on Miyazaki's career. Watching a lot of them. In a pretty compressed time period. Yeah, in about a month you've sort of done the Miyazakis. A month and a half, something like that. It's a movie about a guy, young man, who has a dream.

He wants to create. He wants to make something beautiful. On one hand, a very simple movie. He loves this one thing. He loves planes. He just wants to create he wants to make something beautiful on one hand a very simple movie he loves this one thing he loves planes he just wants to make the simplest best plane in the world most sort of like right elegant right simplicity right yeah he wants that and also then like you know real human life and love messily interferes as it always will right you know and so he has to contend with that and

there's a balance one can't strike and all that and then at the end he's sort of like was it all worth it and the guy's like I don't know

but it's beautiful well but you're leaving out a big element what's the big element which is the thing that he wants to make and make beautifully right

will kill everybody well not everybody it will destroy Cuba Gooding Jr. survived Pearl Harbor. In Pearl Harbor. And thank God for that. Ben doesn't make it.

Ben doesn't make it? No Ben makes it but Josh doesn't? Is that the end of Pearl Harbor? Producer Ben doesn't make it? No no. The Ben-dooser doesn't make it?

This Ben's okay. Where Ben doesn't make it? The Poet Laureate? The Haas? The Tiebreaker? The Peeper? The Commish? The Booker?

Oh. Birthday Benny? Yeah. So can we have Benny? The Haas? The Tiebreaker? The Peeper? The Commish? The Booker? Oh. Birthday Benny? Yeah. So can we have Benny White? How about Benny? Third birthday Benny? I make it. The First Detective?

Did I say that one already? No. The Funkman? Is it? Is it not Professor Christopher? No. Is it Great Roots? A different title?

Of course a different name. I can't believe we're doing the names. Is it Kyle Ben? No. Dope. Participant? Jesus Christ, you stuck that early? Ben Hinchum won. Ben's eight.

Billy Ben's with a dollar sign. Warhawks. Say Ben anything dot dot dot. Ben Antean the Fennel Maker. Purdue Urbane. Mr. Bencredible. The Hossleday. Benglish. filmmaker perdure bane mr. ben credible the hosley day uh the benglish

uh uh fucking robohaz yeah uh eat drink ben hosley

jerry sign ben uh no no no uh wait no wait fuck

uh uh uh who did we do right before this michael man but you're forgetting burton as well oh beetle vape juice No, wait, fuck. Who did we do right before this? Michael Mann, but you're forgetting Burton as well. Oh, Beetle Vape Juice.

He is now Hasuka of the Jersey of the Ditch. Right, but you're also public Benamy number one. He's public Benamy number one. Did I get all the other people? I think so, yeah. I think you got them all. You got Nancy in there, yeah. This is the Hasuka.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice setup. Yes. So we did lose Ben Affleck. He, I, no, is it hard? It's not great that I don't remember which of the two boys dies at the end of Pearl Harbor. I think it's hard now. I have never seen that movie.

Wait, really? Well, I shouldn't be spoiling it for you then. One of them gets sort of, you know, tragically killed. Does Miracle win? Well, I mean, that's one of the funny things about Pearl Harbor. Like, obviously, no. Well, no spoilers. It was devastating.

But then Michael Bay, like, tacks on an hour-long sequence where he's like, but then we did this thing, and we kind of won when we did that. So, yeah, America. That's one of the many weird things about Pearl Harbor. Gotta do Michael Bay. He'll be on the bracket. He'll be on the bracket. America! That's one of the many weird things about Pearl Harbor. Go ahead and do Michael Payne. He'll be on the bracket. He'll be on the bracket. That's the thing with this movie, though, is, like, you know, all these, like, Miyazaki sort of, like, mentality of, like, you know, a life is about committing yourself to a thing and learning how to do it perfectly and giving it your all.

Right, but that may also consume and destroy you. Right, it might consume and destroy you. And this one adds the element of, also, the thing you make might destroy others. Right. You will have no control over how it is interpreted and how it is used and the effect it has on others.

Right. I don't, I mean, obviously, that is the message of The Wind Rises. Yeah. But I'm not sure if that's what he was drawn to as much as the first thing. Because that, you know, that was the sort of trouble he got in when everyone was like, wait, is this movie like pro

him or pro war or anything like that? And he's like, no, I'm not pro war. I'm very anti-war. I can't see how. And they were like, well, then why'd you pick this guy? He's like, because he made these beautiful airplanes. And you're like, well, okay, but let's keep talking about it. Then he's, you know, whatever. He's walking off, thinking about life. But all this stuff where Miyazaki goes,

like, you know, I hate what these things have become. I hate the industry. I hate your virtual reality zombie. I hate your, you know... Right. He has this very complicated relationship with the art form he has committed himself to. Sure. He has this very complicated relationship with the art form he has committed himself to. Sure.

He does not like what film and animation have become and culture. Right. And you sense that he has this uneasy relationship with the fact that his characters are merchandise even though they make money off of it and all these sorts of things. He's not literally equating it with death. Right. I was going to say there is a bit of a

divide there. No, but I think like he looks at other things as a disgrace to humanity, other works in his same realm, you know, where he's like, I'm trying to just do this the best I can. There's the thing you said in one of the early episodes. We were talking about his relationship with his son. And after his son made his first film, his response was, it was honestly made. It was honestly made. Which is one of the most cutting things I've ever heard. It was made honestly, so it was good,

I believe was the message he wrote his son after seeing it. It's not like he walked up to his son and was like, it was pretty good. I mean, you made it very honestly. He was like. Yes. Candy Graham.

Not even a hug. No. Oh, definitely not obviously we all have this impression of him as this impossibly stern man perhaps i mean he does have a jokier side you see it in some of the you know documentaries yeah for sure right it's fucking funny as shit it is funny as shit yeah um i don't know i just i think like even if that's not the thing that innately drew him to this story, right? There has to be some part of him that connects to that element.

Because he is too thoughtful a man to pick someone whose work was then turned towards human death. It's not like he's like, look, I want to make a film about how I am a death merchant. But he could have picked another artist. He could have picked someone in another field. Mike, he had, well, of course, this is based on his own manga. Right. No, no, wait.

It was a late manga that was serialized in a magazine. It has now been collected a little bit, but it was like a watercolor, sort of serialized five-part story based on the biography of this man from the 50s. No, it's not based on that. It's not? No, it is based on a Japanese novel.

Oh, interesting. About the sort of love story and this man who, a very famous Japanese novel. Right, right. This man who falls in love with a woman who has tuberculosis and like, right, it's that whole thing. You know, that dynamic. That's Japanese novel. This man who falls in love with a woman who has tuberculosis. And like, right, it's that whole thing.

That dynamic. That's the novel. And the novel is called The Wind Has Risen. Right. And then there is this real person who, by all accounts, had a perfectly normal family life. Interesting. And like kids and shit.

But he is the actual man who designed this actual plane. He is this, you know, again, famous figure who designed the Zero, which was a very important airplane. So he kind of combined the two. Not kind of. He combined the two. Fully combines the two. You're not supposed to watch The Wind Rises and be like,

it's crazy the guy who made that airplane also had a wife who had tuberculosis. I mean, you might think that, but that's, a quick Google will disavow you of that notion. Sure. He's more just kind of like, no, here's this like romantic sort of tragic narrative that's sort of famous in Japan about like the struggle between, you know, work and love and creativity and loss. Right. Yeah. And then here's this guy who I feel like represents it as well.

So I'm smushing them together. Sort of how people use the Pocahontas narrative. Sure. Where everyone's like, there's not really a love story there. I remember people were disappointed in the new world at the time where they were like, why are you doing this like very romanticized story

of a person who was real, but like almost everything about her life is sort of fictionalized. And the whole love story is mostly now thought to be conjecture based on the fact that she stopped her dad from killing him. Right, right. That people read into it and they're like, that must have been boning, huh? Why else would someone spare another human's life? She looks like Colin Farrell, maybe? Well, that was Terrence Malick's big take.

That was his take. And a good one, if you ask me. But that's the thing. People are able to make Pocahontas narratives because it's an incredible entry point to then dig into the messiness of colonization. Right. While also having this love story to hang a hook on. It's the same thing as fucking Titanic. Right. It's like take a fictionalized love story and use that as an entry point into a great tragedy. Which is crazy.

Yeah. Toxic Avenger. Toxic Avenger. Take a real thing that happened, the existence of New Jersey, and pin a very romantic idealized narrative

on top of it. What if a nerd was bullied so hard he fell into a vat of toxic waste and then had a blind girlfriend, crushed people's heads, ripped guys' arms off.

Yes! You've never seen it? No. I love it, and it's one of those movies I'm a little afraid to rewatch. Oh, you think it's great? Yeah, it's been a while. I mean, I feel like... Trauma is...

That's like trauma in general. But that's like the thing. It's like trauma is designed to be problematic. Yeah, I know. But that's like the thing. It's like trauma is like designed to be problematic. No, I know. I know. That was – right. It's pre-Edgelord. Right.

But it's like Edgelord-y sort of John Waters equivalent kind of like what's the most fucked up shit we can put in a movie? And even when I was young and loved trauma, I was like I get that the point is that this is in horrific taste, and that no one is supposed to actually believe any of this. There's no ideology to it. And Troma, of course, also is responsible for a lot of important independent film, like getting Miyazaki distributed

in the US for the first time. But my memory of Toxic Adventures, I fucking love it. Sure, okay, that's fine. That's cool. That's cool. That's cool. Maybe we put him on the bracket. Put the Avenger himself? Lloyd Kaufman.

Maybe put Toxie on the bracket. Ask him to clean up the bracket. He cleans up. Why are we talking about the Toxic Avenger? Because I always joke about Toxic Avenger being like Titanic. It's really funny and everyone loved it. I've just been, look, I saw

the Nightingale recently, okay? And I've already also just been in a funk. And Ben has been in a similar funk. And Ben and I have been having a lot of powwows about like what the fuck is this world we live in? what is this like work we're trying to do i should split you guys up today my girlfriend was like what what's going on are you upset i'm like i'm just sort of thinking about like what's the point of life yeah she's like i've been thinking about a lot okay i'm like

yeah that's just sort of what's on my mind. Cool, cool, cool, chill, chill, chill, big feel. Big mood. There's all of that stuff. Anytime things get rough, little Lord Davy Sims just walks out with his clementine.

But Ben and I are staring into the eye of Sauron. Stop looking there. It's not good. You know, it's a bad eye. Look, he's got some good points. No, he doesn't. He doesn't.

I don't like the racist stuff, but he's good for the economy. If you really break it down, Sauron's pretty good for the economy. Sauron is insanely bad for the economy. He's good for the economy. The gold rings. All these gold rings everywhere. It's like a dozen of them. I could have a gold ring someday. He said he was going to open up the gold rings. All these gold rings everywhere. It's like a dozen of them. I could have a gold ring someday.

He said he was going to open up the factories again. He does do that. He promised me they were going to open up the factories again. Anyway, the point is Ben and I have been sort of assessing this hellscape and checking with each other periodically while watching these very existential movies. And we have confided in each other that we've had a hard time watching these films because they have made us feel too much at a time when we're already big gaping wounds. Overly sensitive. It's like going to like a steam room or something, you know, where you're like, yeah.

But I'm in this thing where I'm like, A, it feels so impossible to get anything made well on your own terms. Then even more difficult to have it seen. And then even when it gets seen, it feels so often that it's then misinterpreted or used for bad in some kind of way. That sort of futility of like what are we trying to do here as like the industry is eating itself alive is making me feel shaky. And then these movies are just like, wow, here's a guy who just like was like, I'm going to just have a studio. I'm going to make my own films. We're never going to try to be like a billion-dollar company, you know? Like we're just going to truck along and stay the exact size

where I know I can keep doing exactly what I want to do and never overreach, which is a beautiful dream. That has, by all accounts, kind of started to crumble only in the last four or five years. Sure, but he is essentially a sustainer for his entire life. Right, which is incredible. I mean, not when he's a young man, but yeah. life. Right. Which is inarguably. Incredible. I mean his not when he's a young man. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But then I just I fall into all this stuff of just like what's what's the what's the goal? What do you mean?

Are you asking me about the meaning of life? Yes. Do you want to just stand It's the Keanu thing. It's the people we love. That's 100% the answer. I don't really know what to sell people when they ask me that.

It's so obviously true. It's the people you love and the things you experience and what you leave behind. It's not hard. I'm going to make him cry. I'm getting close. You know. But this is the thing I'm grappling with. We're here for each other.

So here's the thing I was really kind of like wrestling with in this movie. Not wrestling like is this good or bad but every time it happened I was like oh fuck they knocked the air out of me again. I mean it's an undoubtedly incredibly well made movie. Correct. Like it's certainly not a movie you're going to watch and you'll be like pfft. I feel like he tossed that off. The use of

what's the name of the Italian airplane engineer? Sorry I will find Giovanni Caproni. Okay What's the name of the Italian airplane engineer? He's idle. Sorry. Giovanni Caproni. Okay. So Caproni in this film kind of functions like Gusteau in Ratatouille.

Yes, 100%. Where it's like here is a character who is a real person in the universe of this movie. Sure. Who the character idolizes, our hero. Yes. We'll never meet him idolizes, our hero. Yes. We'll never meet him probably, but he like knows him. But he has imaginary conversations with this man who then gives him the life advice where, you know, one can assume safely

if you're not believing it's a magical thing that this is in fact his unconscious speaking to him through the guise of the man who would have, who has the most impact on him. It's his unconscious who's like, you must create, you must create, you know, like that. What would this guy say to me if I met him? But of course, it's what his brain

can only imagine this guy would say to him. And every time he sort of throws these big fundamental philosophical questions down on the table, like that shit about the pyramids that I butchered at the beginning of this episode. Sure, right, right, right.

Where he's sort of going like, but this war seems super fucked, and these planes are going to be used to bomb people. And he says this thing of like, well, the question is, do you want to live in a world without pyramids or not? Right. You can't control No.

You can't. It's true, right? I mean, it's a question people are asking all the time. It's like, how do I participate in society in a pure manner? Impossible. It's not really possible unless you want to just live on an island and catch a fish out of the ocean every day. Even think about science, like medicine. Yeah. Because you're creating something that will hopefully cure someone's illness

yes but then the pharmaceutical company is going to gouge those people like by setting some insane price that only very wealthy

people have access to it's just it's it's maddening it's the thing I love about us which is the other movie that totally fucked

with my brain this year which is I I'm ready to watch that again. I am very ready to watch that again. I got the 4K steelbook. It's really nice. What's the matter of life to you?

The meaning of life. Getting some good steelbooks. It's like the people we love and the things we feel. And also, getting those steelbooks, baby. You want to know why I've been in such a tailspin recently? Why? Right before the release of Toy Story 4, Disney Pixar re-released the first three Toy Story movies in 4K steelbooks with a very consistent art style. And now the steelbook that is incoming for Toy Story 4 has a radically different art style.

What the fuck am I supposed to do with that? What do you think you should do with that? They just re-released them. It was a statement of intent. And of course, the fourth will be coming, and it will match this art style. For the listener, Griffin's skin has turned purple. And a lot of bats have suddenly flown into the studio

and are circling him. Toy Story 1, 2, 3. Hand-drawn, charming, illustrated. Art style. Representations of the films. Toy Story 4, some bad fucking posed stills of the characters. Like the stuff they use for the teaser posters. All right, now I'm going to have to look this up to see what's getting your goat so much.

No Toy Story still books. And then we'll talk about that for 40 minutes. The thing. Wait, why were we? Oh, this is kind of lame. Right? It's just the posters, right? Like those character posters.

Which I don't like them. They're in front of the CQ background. But then look at what the first three looked like. And to add insult to injury? I mean, look. You're a maniac, but I cannot deny that it's a drop-off in quality here.

Those three are charming and they're of a piece. These are cute, right? You're showing me and yet I have nothing in here. Those three are charming and these are cute, right? You're showing me and yet I have nothing in here. Okay. I'm pointing at my head. Well, let me pour even more gasoline on the fire.

And there's just the toxic Avengers just walking around going like, rah, rah. Let me pour even more gasoline on the fire. Give Ralph a high five. Okay. Your head is just toxic adventure and Ralph.

Ralph from The Simpsons? No. Wreck it. He's going to wreck it. Sorry. Ben's two best friends. I know him on a

first date basis. Yes. First, they announced those three Toy Story steelbooks. Consistent art style. Then they announced

the Toy Story 4 steelbook. Different art style. Then they announced that they're re-releasing seven of the other Pixar movies in 4K steelbook. Different art style. Then they announced that they're re-releasing seven of the other Pixar movies in 4K steelbook with the art style matching the first three Toy Stories!

Well, that's better. So the only thing that stands out is the fourth... So maybe you wait. Maybe you wait. That's exactly what I'm doing, but it drives me crazy. I mean, it's tough. You got a tough life. It's really... Hit podcasts, life in New York with a beautiful woman who loves you. Please.

I'm sorry. Female protocol. Yes. You know, toy story, steel books, you know, yeah,

I can't catch a break. I know our listeners are just, they just had to sit down and start crying hearing you talk about that. Yes. They can't, they're overwhelmed with emotion for you. They are. I will say today someone posted on our Reddit, like, does Griffin have like celiac disease? It's like trying to like hack your diet.

Yeah. That's how much they care about you. Guess what? Have fun. Every doctor has been trying to crack this for 30 years now and no one's gotten close. You know what it is? It's anxiety, motherfuckers. I try to eat better. That would be my diagnosis.

I will test out different diets. Nothing seems to make it better or worse. The only thing that seems to make it better or worse is my state of mind. Anyway, I've been pooping a lot lately. The thing I want to say was, us, the thing that hits me so hard with that movie

is, you know, what I believe the takeaway from that film is we have to sort of in some way reckon with and accept the fact We have to reckon with. And accept that. We live in a society where in order for one to succeed,

someone else must always suffer. On any scale. It doesn't even have to be one-to-one although i like that metaphor in us but right that like there's so much going on in the world right that you have to not think about have decided not to think about you know we're right and it's there and if you just went down a fucking escalator you'd even see it right but we just wouldn't think to go down the escalator it's not one to one with a tether we've learned to not go down the escalator when you're a kid you might go down

right because you're still kind of like thinking about the world right like in like a sort of an innocent and then you work hard enough to get a nice country house where you can stay with your family and not think about the other and then they show up and that's the problem it's a great movie we all train ourselves's the problem. It's a great movie. We all train ourselves to become oblivious.

It's a great movie. And then everyone walked out of it being like, but like, where'd they get the scissors? Yeah. Who's doing laundry? Yeah. I love it. I think it's a great movie.

It's a fantastic movie. I agree. Yeah. It's a Glaster piece. It's a Glaster piece. Yeah. It is. So the fact that, give me the name of the Italian guy again.

Oh, I'm sorry. Giovanni Caproni. In Wind Rises, that his subconscious speaking to him through the vessel of his idol keeps on trying to, like David, say like, what can you do? You just got to build these beautiful things. Sure. And at the end of the movie, that final scene, which broke me.

Great scene. And it's sort of, they're watching this like ascension of planes into the sky. Yes. That's sort of reminiscent of Porco Rosso when you see the planes sort of going into heaven. And you see like the fucking like bombed out remains.

The fact that anyone thought this movie was pro-war when it ends so explicitly. I don't know if thought this movie was pro-war when it ends so explicitly I don't know if they thought it was pro-war who knows it's certainly there were some I would say bad faith attacks on this movie and then some people more expressing their opinions and whatever but it's like

a fucking the Japanese the more like this sort of more military pro-military Japanese politicians certainly think of him as not an ally. They think of Miyazaki as unpatriotic. He's a pacifist. Certain politics in Japan are like, we should become more militaristic again. We should rewrite our constitution to have a military again.

Things like that. And then it's weird that some American critics saw this movie and were like is he like a dracoist? Anyway. Yes. They're watching the planes. They're seeing the destruction. And the guy's like good job. You had your 10 years. We all only get 10 years where we're actually doing good work.

Which is another weird thing because Miyazaki keeps on trying to walk away. He keeps trying to pull the Tarantino. Where he's like I'm putting a limit on I'm walking away while I'm still good. I'm trying to walk away. Like he keeps trying to pull the Tarantino. Right. Where he's like, I'm putting a limit on it. I'm walking away while I'm still good. Which is probably what will happen to Tarantino. Right. Yeah.

I'm walking away. And then he's like, so 10 years. What do you think? How do you feel about it? And he's like, I don't know. I made this thing. It was really good. But like the planes didn't come home.

Right. Like they killed people and all the people flying them died. Right. And none of them made it back. Right. And he goes, well, they had nothing to come home to. Like there was no home left. Which is like, wait, so wait,

the end result is he made a beautiful plane that was used to kill people. Then the people piling them got killed. And it was all sort of for naught because the entire civilization was destroyed and had to rebuild itself. And Miyazaki's takeaway is like, yes, but we must live. Right?

Like that's sort of like as the wife appears and she's like, you have to live. And he's like, okay, okay. I think it's not beautiful because it lasts. Right. It's beautiful because it happens. Anyway, this is a animated film that made like hundreds of billions of dollars in Japan. I mean, that's the craziest thing. I know. You see this and you're like,

okay, well, this was more niche, right? And it's like, yeah, you know, okay. Compared to Spirited Away, yes, it made less money. It's only the 15th highest grossing film of all time. It still performed like a huge blockbuster in Japan. Yeah. I gotta say, it feels like all the other cultures are more

cultured than we are. You don't think America is number one? Get a foam finger for me right now. Even just the fact that all these – Okay. David's got a big foam finger on. I'm writing down foam finger for David. It says Colin Farrell on it.

Hell yeah. The fact that all these Ghibli releases are doing so well in China is just like why are the American studios all about like we have to dumb everything down so that it's universal, so that it plays everywhere in every other country. And then you look at the box office in other countries and like foreign independent dramas do crazy well. No, I think, yeah, America is just a gimmick that's sort of already gone sour. People are like, yeah, all right, so we've seen the American movies now. They were illegal for a while

or hard to find, so seeing them was kind of crazy and they were so expensive, but we figured out how to do that, so yeah, I mean, whatever. Right, now they just like good stories. Everyone's like, wait, fuck stories, stories, stories.

We fired all those guys. Stories. Someone remind me quickly. Tip of my tongue. Stories are the effects? What are the, is that what we call the explosions? Yeah. The wind rises.

The wind rises. I mean, it's a Miyazaki movie. It's complicated. I feel like his movies are rarely like you walk away with like, that's the one thing he's trying to tell me. Well, right. Yeah. If this was an American movie, that's the one thing he's trying to tell me. Well, right. Yeah. If this was an American movie,

that's what the Italian guy would be like. Ah! Chef Boyardee! Yes, right. Right. It does frustrate me, though, that when you were talking about people like in sort of bad faith,

misinterpreting this movie, it's just this thing that just like, I feel like especially in the American discourse people get upset if things are not super didactic in terms of the filmmaker being like, I don't approve

of this! I think this is bad! That like if a main character does something shitty or is I mean this is a problem in the way we talk about movies. Right. And things. Right.

Or even in the case of this film, a main character makes something which is then used by other people to do horrible things. That's like, so wait, he's saying that the death was great? Miyazaki's like super into bombing? This guy wants wind to rise? That's fucking insane Ben did you like this movie I don't know That's cool

It fucked me up too It's unbearable I love it I had to watch it in a few I had to stop I took some breaks You shouldn't take breaks you should watch it twice I mean,

just like quick, like a cool down on the old elliptical. Yeah. Right. Something that did stick out to me is I don't think I've ever seen an animated movie that was, that made me think this much. That wasn't just action-driven.

Sure. This could be a live-action movie. It's basically a period drama. It has a couple set pieces. Ben, you've never seen an animated film that made you think this much? Need I remind you the question, what if the world but cars?

You can remind me. Or what if cars but spies? Yeah, I hear you. Cars but spies? Cars 2. Oh. A huge question. It asked the audience.

No, it didn't make me think. What if cars but spies? What is what's 3? What if cars 2 makes cars 3 look like Cars 1? Cut it all. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Did you watch the subs of the dub?

I watched the subs. I would agree that that is the experience that you should go for, especially with a movie like this. It's actually set in Japan. Yada, yada, yada. You don't think you should watch the version of the film which Joseph Gordon-Levitt is designing the planes? I've seen this movie, I think, a few times.

So this is the first. I decided to watch it with the dub because I had never even thought to watch it with the dub. I want to watch, live in a world with pyramids. So Joseph Gordon-Levitt is fine. My wife has tuberculosis. But what I was not aware of, I did not really check in on who was in it.

But I knew it had like a, you know, these days they have very exceptional, like American cast. Cause there's a crazy one in there. Werner Herzog. Yeah. And he's so good.

Really? Yeah. I mean, he's Castorp. He's the German guy. It's the one thing that tempted me to watch the dub. I mean, he should do this more often.

I mean, obviously I, I watched the dub as well, and he's more often i mean obviously i i watched the dub right as well and he's so good at it i mean verner herzog has a good voice it's not breaking news at all obviously people love to hear him go like you know talk about bears and caves sure you know roads right nature right i i think his one scene is the still the high point of all of rick and morty I think his one scene is still the high point of all of Rick and Morty. It's a great scene. Like, anything in his voice is funny.

And profound. Right, this is more profound. Yes. Oh, God. And him playing this character is quite a choice. It's an interesting choice. But he has that slightly sinister edge to his diction. Yes. But also, he's playing a character who is we know a good guy but has still has sort

of this like kind of unsettling vibe to him he is sort of haunted and jovial at the same time which is an uneasy combination and he's like so like it's good that they're getting married yeah and and all that but you're kind of like, but he almost seems like the specter of tragedy hanging over the whole thing. And of course, he's also just like a specter of the war to come. He's like the ghost of World War Future. That's what he is.

He's like, Nazis are coming. We could use that guy about now. Yeah. That was the other thing mean that just flipped me out too it's just like uh man it's hard watching world war ii shit now yeah like it's interesting to have new vantage points on history and this was a new vantage point for me because yeah japan yeah germany were working together they were on the same side. Like, you know, it's like, I forget that they were collaborating

even like in the specifics of this movie. Like that they were sharing technology. From the point that Japan is like kicked out of the League of Nations and Hitler rises to power. So like, you know, most of the 30s. Yeah. Yeah.

And the 2010s. The 2010s? Yeah. I'm saying it feels a little bit like history is repeating. What, you think Japan and Germany are the enemies? Hitler rising to power? No, I think America, unfortunately, is the enemy now. The 2020s.

But, I mean, you could make this movie about the scientists who worked at the Manhattan Project. Sure. You could make this movie about all like, all kinds of sort of... Right. Architects of death who thought of themselves as, like, scientists and creators and things like... Right, I mean, it's... It is...

You could make this about signing the Declaration of Independence. This is our most fucking... Talking about a Chapo episode ever. ...mass destruction. Hey, Chapo, go on Blank Check. More like it. Challenge. Challenge.

I'm a moron. I don't know anything. Can I just say, I think the distinction, though. Of course there's distinctions. I'm just saying, obviously Japan's not the only country that did bad things. No good, very bad, don't do it.

The distinction is that a lot of decent scientists worked on the Manhattan Project and what have you. There are many other examples, but a bomb can only ever be used as a bomb. That is true. And a plane is not explicitly a weapon of war. Right, which is why this is such a fascinating story. Right. He is in love with the plane, and he has the ill fortune of being born at a time

where the only plans they need are to kill people. Who's going to give them money? The military. And if you work in aviation, even now probably, it would be difficult to avoid things like military contracts. This guy's born 30 years later. Maybe he's just working for TWA. You know what I'm saying?

Sure. Working for Pan Am. Right. Hanging out with Christina Ricci and Margot Robbie, Kelly Garner. Three out of five ain't bad. See, Miyazaki is like the kind of director where like we're having this conversation and I'm thinking like, okay, pillows. Pillows are great.

If you make pillows, what can you do wrong? Nothing bad can happen. Well, you could fucking smother someone with a pillow dishonest attendant at a retirement home so it's like why bother making pillows why bother making pillows someone will murder someone with pillows well what you guys are describing is an existential crisis yeah i have called it as much many times on this episode i'm not hiding behind any smoke screen here. I'm not saying you're hiding. Radical transparency here. Ben and I are going through existential crises

together and separately. For the listener, also, context, Griffin is wearing a shirt that says, I feel everything. Just wanted to mention that at this point in the episode. Feel insensitive. Oh my god. I don't know. What do you think is going to be good?

I'm worried about that one, let me tell you. We're talking about the culture. Will that have come out by this point? Uh-huh. Wow. Uh-huh. We're going to be living in a post-p***** world. I know, a twisted world. Maybe he'll untwist it. That is the most twisted thing the Joker could do.

Is make something not twisted? Straighten it out. All right, so the plot of The Wind Rises. It begins with- I'm losing my mind. You are. You are. I don't know what to do.

What do we do? Talk about the wind. Okay, cool. Oh, boy. Okay. That opening sequence, though, where he's a kid, and he's trying to, you know,

imagine as being a pilot. Oh, yes, in his nightmare seat, and then his eyes turn into, like, fish eyes. It's so cool. And he, like, puts the glass, but it's too late. Yeah. And he's, I mean, that's Miyazaki, I think, also reminding you like, just because this is a more grounded story,

doesn't mean I can't use this medium like to every advantage. More grounded. Outside of dream sequences, this is the only film of his that does not take place in a fantastical world. Yeah. Now I want to double check. Like I'm saying, even Cagliostro is not as explicitly magical, but it is. Cagliostro is a real

place, and Ben was trying to book a plane there, remember? Thank you, Frankie. I mean, Ponyo kind of takes place in our world. It's just that there's magic in it. It's got magical shit. That's what I'm saying. I know, I know, I know. This is the only movie of his that does not have magic in it. And Cagliostro, you can like try to split the hair, but I'd say like, right.

Come on, that's a fake place. Right. Underwater City. Right. This is a movie that's in the real world other than these dream sequences, which are incredibly expressionistic. movie in which the majority of the scenes are to watch Miyazaki film in which the majority of the scenes are people sitting in real places knowing that the fire is not going to come to life. Yeah.

You know, or a spirit is not going to like knock on their door or any of that. Right. And beyond that, like a lot of the scenes are just people chatting. Yeah. At the office. Right. Him and his wife at home. Right. office. Right. Him and his wife at home. Right.

Right? Right. I love the the way that she paints like the the look of her her medium.

Yes. It's like I mean I was blown away. Yeah. Have you seen what the the manga looked like? No. Have you?

Yeah. It's really pretty and it's kind of scratchy. It's pretty? It's watercolor and it's scratchy. Oh, it is pretty. Yeah, I actually have seen this. I kind of wish he could have figured out

how to make a whole movie look like that. Because Kaguya comes out a year or two after this. No, I thought it came out a year before. Oh, did it come out before? No, maybe a year after. This is 13? I think Cagulia is 14. Princess Cagulia is

2014. I love that movie. But that movie was incredibly expensive and laborious. Oh, I know. That's why there's a reason people don't make a whole movie look like that. It's because it's tough. But when I saw it and I was like,

wait, every single scene looks like that? This isn't just like a dream sequence? The whole movie is like watercolor paintings? That movie, I mean, I find the wind rises to be unbearably devastating. I find the Princess Kukui to be like that X10. Like where I'm almost afraid

to think about that movie. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a fable. That's not real at all. Right, right. That's incredible. That movie rules.

That is a true blank check. It talks, it slaps, it's a bop. As the kids would say. So you have this dream sequence and he wakes up and he's very haunted by the fact that he believes he is too nearsighted to ever successfully

fly a plane. Right. Which is his dream. He's talking to Caproni from very early on. Right. He's having those dream sequences.

Right. Where he's like, I've never flown a plane. Like, I don't care. That's for basic bitches. Right, exactly. You gotta be making the plane. Let other dummies fly it.

And it is kind of fun how little this movie is about the process of flying a plane. Sure. You know, there's a couple sequences where you see them being flown and like the speed testing and all that, but like, they're rarely sitting down and being like, this is what the pilot

needs to know. They don't think about that too much. But if I can, you know, get a little like, for a second, there is this analog. It's just about the worst way to set something up ever if I can get a little about this if I can

there is an analog here to like I will make this thing that hopefully transports people to another place and I just sit back and hope that it works for them you know like the other movie I kept on thinking about watching this is The Mule. In a film that I think is also similarly revealing a director trying to find a movie about the way that they make films.

Like how they view their career. And their life. And he's like, I just plant flowers. Right. You plant six a day. And some of them are good and some of them are bad. That's The Mule. But right, it's that. And then they're like like but what about your family and he's like i'm guilty

send me to jail right you know like miyazaki's like it's this movie is like but what about the people in your life and he's like i tried what i do yeah i tried my best but like i lose people and i'd be where it's like eastwood's verdict on himself. It's like, well, I just, I'm a simple guy. Like your wife and kids. I know. Take me to jail. I'll plant my flowers there. Book me Dano.

And like, he sees Bradley Cooper. He's like, you gotta remember their birthdays and shit. And he was like, I know. And he's like, yeah,

well, that's my advice to you. I'll see you later. And then that's the end of the movie is him being like, remember that shit I said about the birthdays now reprocess that through the prism of knowing that I was the guy that you were hunting down little more ominous now huh

the birthdays what a wild movie I gotta buy that on 4k steelbook where's the steelbook of that there isn't there's a 4k there's no steelbook do you have the Sully 4K? Yes. Gorgeous. Gotta see those birds. 4,000 lines of resolution.

I mean, if I have one note for the Sully 4K, I wish they'd done it. For fuck's sake. That's what I gotta to say to that. But this thing of, like, you know, especially being an animator,

it is this weird, like, solitary life where you're, like, ruthlessly devoted to this craft that is equal parts, like, mathematical and artistic, right? Like, there is such a technical aspect to animation that makes it different from a lot of other art forms. Sure. Because it is this like impossible illusion. Like this thing that shouldn't work.

That you need to keep in your head at all times in order to keep that illusion up in the air. While also having this sort of like creative lens to be able to like realize things that people could only imagine. But you just like sit in a room obsessively drawing over and over and over and over and over again. Or whatever form of animation you're doing and it's still just constant meticulous, solitary, obsessive manipulation. Is that shot of him at the desk? Yes. Like the wind like just blowing all the pages away. Right.

And then you're just like, I hope this makes people feel good. Right. You know, you just kind of like put it out into the world. And you're like, well, I hope that was all worth it. I hope I didn't waste five years of my life making ugly dolls. Well. Well. How ugly are they really?

Not enough, if you ask me. Okay. Fundamental flaw. Early in the movie, he's on a train well this is the point now he realizes I'm going to commit my life to making the plans he's going to go to Tokyo Imperial University

he's going to study aeronautical engineering and he meets Satomi and there's the earthquake she catches his hat anytime they meet it's like any time they meet, it's like the earth is active, right? Like the wind is blowing,

or the earth is shaking, or things like that. She also catches his eye, if you know what I'm saying, and captures his heart. I just wanted to say that. Yeah, I did, and you interrupted me. Come on, the earthquake sequence is incredible.

Insane. The way he animates that is just, I never thought that you could do that. I didn't either, and I thought he was getting magical for a second. I was like, oh, is this another dream sequence? Is this like an expressionistic thing? And it's like, oh no, it is.

It's that the earth is quaking. Right. This thing that is insane. Sort of like rippling mountains. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think if you're Japanese, you might have like, that's such a notorious event. Although earthquakes do sort of get forgotten it's sort of like you know what I mean yeah because it keeps happening right but also like yeah the Canto

1923 earthquake I mean it killed 140,000 people which is crazy Kira goes to school yeah he meets his friend Kira in the dub

voiced by John Krasinski somewhat unsettlingly. That's weird. But you forgot to mention he shows his heroism in the wake of the earthquake. He does. And it's – Her maid breaks her leg. Right.

Right. And he, without even sharing his name – He should have shared his name. Selflessly carries her back, helps a stranger out. But he's not even going to see these people again for years. No, it's a basic human empathy. It's a man realizing he's in

a position to help others. In a moment of great tragedy and disorientation. Anyway, then he meets John Krasinski. Yeah, he meets John Krasinski. It's kind of confusing that there's no to the camera stuff happening. You think they should do

a sort of Ferris Bueller style? The thing about making airplanes is... No, not even that. I feel like he should just sort of spin around in his rolly chair and just sort of look at the camera with sort of an askance sort of wry smile. Uh-huh.

Ben's pointing at me guys were really burnt out I guess classic Albert oh I just got that you were doing Office references I don't remember that show apparently you're the only one America's number one

I rewatch the Office all the time and I'm like I think I got it the first time. And Parks and Rec is the new one. I see people on the train watching that all the time. That one kind of lost steam. I didn't even hate it, but both Parks and Rec and The Office, isn't the back half of those shows sort of inarguably a little worse

than the front half? Well, yeah. I mean, I feel like The Office has two and a half inarguably a little worse than the front half? Well, yeah. I mean, I feel like The Office has two and a half inarguably bad seasons. Right? At the end. Not to mention that there's some ups and downs before that. Out of nine? And the fact that people are like, yes,

once a year I watch all 189 episodes of The Office. That's a lot. Are there more than that even? I think it's eight. It's nine seasons. 189 episodes. The Office. That's a lot. Are there more than that even? I think it's eight. It's nine seasons. Yeah, 189 episodes. I think you nailed how many episodes there are. No, 201.

I was pretty close. 201 episodes though. It's a lot of episodes. 201 episodes. A show I enjoyed when it was on. Stopped about four months after Corral left. Me too. And have never felt any compulsion to rewrite. When Corral left, I was like, oh, the writing's on the wall.

And I gave it a few episodes, and I was like, yeah, I think I'm going to tap it. I thought the three Farrells after Corral were good. And then right after that, I was like, what the fuck are they doing? Right. Yeah. Well, Krasinski's in this.

He plays Kiro. They work at Mitsubishi. They're designing a plane um there's that scene where the plane like breaks apart ben's taking a picture of me should i pose my shirt is that what oh yeah yeah i'll come around okay david keep talking ben i'm just doing a little modeling shoot for ben because like you're so sprawled. I'm very sprawled. And so because they don't really know what they're doing,

like they're sort of technologically behind, they're sent to Germany. And this is another sequence where you're like, yeah, you really think this guy is pro Japan in the 30s? Yeah. Because like all this stuff where they're in Germany and they're just there, like they're like, we are airplane nerds. we hear you guys are next level on the airplanes we got transferred to like the the headquarters right right yeah we're moving up the job ranks we're

working on better airplanes now uh and they see the the Junkers 38 which I think is another like I mean this is Miyazaki is so deep on this shit I don't know anything about early aviation no but I think like that's sort of a famous like there were only like two ever built oh but it was a crazy plane is it pronounced Junkers I believe so because it's spelled Junkers which is really funny for sure yeah you know how German be yeah um and like but then as but as they're doing this they're seeing like the secret police are going around and, you know, the Gestapo are beating people up and they, you know,

a little bit of anti-Semitism, a little bit of that. And you know, it's like Germany is this sort of like, sort of kind of frightening shadowy place. And like, you know, they don't,

they want to walk into the plane and the military is like, you can't do that. And they have to like negotiate all that. Like, but this movie is pro war, you know, they want to walk into the plane and the military is like, you can't do that. And they have to like negotiate all that. But this movie is Pearl War. But like I do think like when you're watching this movie and especially if you're someone, obviously, we are young people relatively. I'm an old soul. But, you know, if you're someone who maybe has more of a closer connection to the second world war and maybe more of a lingering resentment. That's just kind of,

you know, possible to dismiss. You're like, I don't want to see anything even vaguely sympathetic about anyone who was a hundred, that right. A hundred percent. Even though he was right.

He obviously not in the military, but like, um, you see a scene like that and you're like, right. Why didn't they at that point be like, you know what? Fuck Germany.

This place is clearly, which is, I feel like the frustration people feels about so many of those kinds of stories yeah or like things that are happening today what what do you mean everything's great today right wait trump oh he's yelling at the danish prime minister because they won't sell him greenland uh democrats uh jews are anti-semitic if they vote for a Democrat. Right, right, right. And he was chosen by God. New rule. And he's the king of Israel. Yeah, anyway, so I'm seeing here that a new rule would let the U.S. hold migrant families indefinitely. So when I'm talking about the 30s, I'm saying, why didn't anyone... It's weird. They should have gone like, hmm, some bad stuff is happening.

Let's stop it right now before it goes any further. And I do think that is much of what he's trying to dig into in this movie. Yes. It's like, it's tough not to think, you know, you're going to think personally, obviously, because you're a person. It's tough to think outside yourself. You can try, and people do. But, like, you are maybe eventually going to run into that thing of like,

well, I'm just trying to do what I'm trying to do. Do my job. I don't have malicious beliefs. Marry my dying girlfriend. Right. I get caught up in all this other stuff i want to turn a fucking herringbone into a wing and isn't that beautiful loves the curve and at the end his creative self his italian uh avatar yeah it's like it was

beautiful but i'm pretty sure miyazaki is like you know, there's a lot to take in here. Like, I don't think Miyazaki is the Italian guy. No. But he's got that Italian guy on his shoulder, too. Yes. Whoever that is for him. Right. Right.

This is an animated movie by a guy who mostly makes films for children. That's a tune. Do you think if Hoskins and Roger Rabbit... Eddie Valiant? Yeah, if he saw like Jiro from this movie, he'd be like, it's a toon! Yeah. Damn toons! Damn toons bombed my brother.

They live in that art film land over there where everything is subtle and moving. It's so much more convoluted. It's that damn tone over there designed a plane which then the allied government military used to bomb my uncle-in-law. I just like the idea that Toontown might have a sort of Ghibli zone.

And rather than everything being wacky, everything is deeply profound and resonant. Eddie Valdez hates it. He's like, it's and resonant. Eddie Valley pizza. He goes, it's too resonant. I'm thinking about humanity and our relationship with nature.

I drank for a reason. I don't want to feel this much. It's a tone. Okay. Okay. So Werner Herzog does a good job. I watched it subtitled. Sure. so after the

German sequence I feel like he sees Caproni again and Caproni is like planes are beautiful like humans

may not be but planes are beautiful yeah and the things that humans do with planes might not be beautiful

but that doesn't diminish the beauty of the plane do you want to live in a world without pyramids what do we

think of Kurokawa um who is Jiro's boss? He's a pretty great character, in my opinion. Voiced by Martin Short in the dub. Interesting. Reminds me a lot of the boss whose name I'm embarrassingly forgetting from The Incredibles.

Because he's short. He's got a similar kind of stocky, thick glasses. That's a Wallace Shawn, right? That's a Shawn. That's a Shawn. He's a Wallace Shawn. That's a Shawn. That's a Shawn. It's a classic Shawn. But I like that he is sort of like business-like and a little mean and obviously like not very like forthcoming with the compliments, but like at his heart, you know, a fairly moral

person. Yes. And, you know, when things start to get rough and the secret police start to rear their head in Japan he's like he does good things but in the same kind of like

get in here they'll arrest you I guess I don't care sit there now well even when the marriage comes up that he's like you gotta convince me

that this isn't about your ego right cause if you're doing it for your ego you're really gonna hurt this girl right that's a pretty incredible scene that's a pretty incredible scene also his hair is funny and it bounces your ego, you're really going to hurt this girl. That's a pretty incredible scene. That's a pretty incredible scene.

Also, his hair is funny and it bounces when he walks. That's really funny. But, you know, he gets hired for the Imperial Navy. He's trying to build a plane again. Doesn't work. It fails in testing. It's rejected. So he goes to this resort to chill out. And who's there?

Standing on the balcony, suffering from tuberculosis. Hardcore. Good old Noco. Yeah. That whole thing's great. The hat. And it's like they've been waiting.

Waiting to see each other. The paper airplane. Yes. I love that whole end of Herzog and like I love all of that. Yeah. It's very romantic. It's romantic.

You seem defeated. Just by life. Yeah. Go on. No it's very romantic. It's romantic. You seem defeated. Just by life. Yeah, go on. No, it's romantic, but also, like, even though he's there to escape, he can't escape, one, the specter of the coming war. Yeah. But also, like, feeling. He's falling for this person who's going to affect his life negatively

in a lot of ways because like he's gonna have to worry about her and it's gonna impact his work and she's gonna be sick and like there are all these bad things but like you know love man you gotta love conquers all it does right so do chowski say too did you see that i think it was lily one of them was like it's just love conquers all that's what the Wachowskis say too did you see that? I think it was Lily one of them was like it's just love conquers all that's what our movies are about yeah

they rule they do rule I just can't I have so many questions about their split right and Lana doing Matrix solo at the time we were recording this

that announcement was yesterday yeah and you have heard us react to it in real time. That's true. The episode where David gets broken. Yeah. During Howl's Moving Castle. But I just, like last night, I just couldn't stop stewing on all the different possible scenarios.

Well, I feel, you mean just on like how it's going to go? Like what the story is? No, literally just the state of their relationship and how it ended up with one of them agreeing to do the movie and not the other. They may talk about it someday, but it does seem like this sort of split that was presented as temporary for Sensei Season 2 has become permanent. Like, sort of like either for personal reasons or professional reasons or both. It just felt like for a while the split was sold as like,

oh, like Lily kind of wants to keep working and Lana's sort of done. Right. And then that has proven to very much not be the case. Um, you're flopping the names, but that's okay. I'm not. The belief for a little while was Lana was like done.

Really? Yeah. Lana? Right. And it was like, oh, Lily's gonna like... But Lana's the one who did season two of Sense8. Yes. Right. And Lily didn't because it was like

sort of right after transition, like sort of right. Right, right. But then the stuff I had heard was after Sense8, one of the reasons they sold the company was Lana was like,

I feel like I've said everything I have to say. And Lily then goes on to like produce the sitcom and the idea was like, well, she's still going to find ways to work on things, but maybe they're big, passionate, personal projects. Maybe it was just a thing of Warner Brothers being like the Matrix.

Like, what do you think? If you don't do it, someone else will. Sure, and Lily was definitively like, I don't like too much, or I'm not interested in going back there. And Lana was definitively like, I don't like too much or I'm not interested in going back there. And Lana was like, well, I cooked up this idea with novelist David Mitchell. So crazy. And here's a script.

And Warner Brothers apparently loved the script. So like maybe. So that's not just, oh, we've hired these people to write it. No, there's a script. That's crazy. I didn't even realize that. Yeah. Which is great. There was that statement by Lily at the TCAs where she's like,

I'm very excited for other people to have a chance to do The Matrix. Right, right, right. It doesn't belong to me. I hope they make an even better movie. Impossible. Well, that's why it's weird, though, that she was saying that. Was she just being coy? I don't know.

I have no idea. Or was she in the dark? Couldn't tell you. I don't know. Okay, the in the dark? Couldn't tell you. I don't know. Okay, the wind rises. It's rising. It's rising.

Do you like the Castorp scene and the whole sort of like romantic interlude? Castorp's very striking looking. He has such a different sort of style of caricature. He's got like gray eyes. Yes. They're very prominent. And Herzog, again, very strange. But he's sort of in certain ways like more caricatured.

He sort of has more exaggerated features than anyone else in the movie. He's got kind of a simple face too. Like not a lot of lines to it. Big nose. Right, but his eyes are crazy and his nose is huge. He's based on the German novel The Magic, by Thomas Mann.

His name comes from that. Okay. Which is apparently a sort of crucial influence on this film, which is a movie I think that he wrote when his wife was at a sanatorium. It all comes back to this, you know? Yeah. I don't know much about Miyazaki's personal life. I know he has kids, obviously. wrote when he was, his wife was at a sanatorium. It all comes back to this, you know? Yeah. Um, I don't know much about Miyazaki's personal life.

I know he has kids, obviously. Right. I don't know much about it. Like, I don't know if he went, he went through anything like that. I mean,

he doesn't really talk about it, right? As far as I, as far as I know, yeah, you know, he married another animator. They have two kids or maybe just,

yeah, no, two kids. And he has a tough relationship with his son who like. Right. Tried to follow him. Yeah. But that's all I know.

So I don't know why he's so drawn to this story. This classic Japanese novel of the. Your wife's in a sanatorium and she's dying of tuberculosis. But he clearly is. Yeah. And that sort of push and pull between like work and love. Right. And is it better to make that sort of push and pull between like work and love. Right. And is it better to make the most of the time you have?

You're right. Right. Exactly. Right. Better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. Right. That sort of thing. Right.

But like. Because that whole dynamic is so interesting of her being like, I very much want to marry you. Right. Just quick note. I have a hardcore tuberculosis and I won't marry you until I am better. Right. And then she gets so much worse that he's like, cool, I'm going to override your request. Right.

I'm going to marry the shit out of you now. But we know it's doomed. That shot is so upsetting when he gets the telegram and the blood. And then it cuts to her over her painting with blood dripping out of her mouth through her fingers onto the painting. Yeah. Very visceral. It looks like someone from Mononoke. Like it doesn't look, you know.

I know. It's such an unreal amount of blood gushing. Sure. And a constant stream. And it just looks like it's pouring out of her face because her hands are so fully over her face. It's not just like oh it's coming out of her mouth. It's like her whole head

is bleeding. Yeah it sucks. You got his sister who's kind of a great character actually. I like that she has her own arc like outside of the movie but when she shows back up like now she's a doctor, like she's like an independent person.

And she's like, I got the read on this. It's bad. She's like, he's, she's not going to make it. And he, he's in denial.

Like that, I think that's, that's, that's the sort of shared thing between his love and his work. Like he wants to create and do all this stuff, but he is in denial about like what it's going to be for, even though it's literally the military being like, make it faster,

you know, make it more deadly, you know, right. I mean like, what are they saying? Well, yeah.

And it's also right. It's lighter. Like maybe it'll take off from an aircraft carrier or whatever. Right. Right. It's hard to love something fully if you think so much about how it can go wrong. Right.

So you, you put on blinders to some degree. You focus on the things you love about it and the things that make you feel good about it. Right. And it's like this marriage he has is going to make him sad. Right. But also the fact that he's just like, well, and I'm going to keep on being obsessed with my work as I always am because nothing in my life has changed because this is normal and you're not going to die. And everyone's like, you leave her alone while you

just sit over a desk and draw planes all day. She's going to be dead super soon. And he's like, no she's not, it's all fine. And she's like, I love it, I love that you go to work. I will also stay alive forever. Like they're both just playing this game of willful naivete. And then when it's time for her to die, she just leaves. just leaves and leaves

because she knows how horrible it'll be bunch of notes David's pushing away his microphone oh look who's having the breakdown now I have just this movie is very it's my favorite movie of this it was my favorite movie of 2013 and it was one of those things

a lot of Mizaki movies were like it almost felt like, I was like, that's too, you know, I shouldn't even glimpse this. It's too moving and it's unbearable. I already said that.

It's unbearable. What was my favorite movie of 2013? I don't know. I mean, there were some good movies that year. It's how Llewyn Davis is that year Wolf of Wall Street, Francis Ha my top two were Llewyn Davis and Spring Breakers

of course that's the answer 12 Years a Slave is that year, Iron Man 3 great movie, Before Midnight right but it's yeah Counselor, Llewyn Davis and Spring Breakers another movie where it's supper for your R and what's the point yeah Spring Breakers well Another movie where it's supper for your art and what's the point?

Yeah. Spring Breakers? Well, well, oh, Llewyn Davis. Yeah. It's your arts robbery.

Llewyn Davis is more like, I feel like this is JD's take and I'm borrowing it, but I love his take on this. Right. Where it's like life, you know, it's creativity. It's like this iteration

where it feels like it's the same every single fucking time you're trying. But it actually is changing very slowly. Right. And that may or may not be good or worth it or progress even. But also that you're stuck in these loops. Right. And once a loop, you have an opportunity to actually grab the brass ring. And you keep on – like if you miss it,

you will keep on finding those opportunities again. But the people who are self-destructive are destined to miss them over and over and over again. Yes, 100%. Right? You witness in the movie like five opportunities he has to really do something good

and he just keeps on fucking them up and the flip of the beginning and the end of that movie is just like, it doesn't matter like this is just going to repeat. That's what I love about this movie. It's going to repeat and most likely he will not someday get it together. There's a chance one of these times he wises up and he sees clearly

and he's able to like jump through the hole when it presents itself and find success and happiness on the other side but most likely not. Right. What a great movie. Everything's bad. No! Everything is not bad, you dingus.

This movie is beautiful. This is the kind of movie where... And you don't even see her die. It's just there's a gust of wind and he knows. He knows. Okay. Nirvana, dumb. We all know this song.

Nirvana, dumb. Oh, okay. I thought you were calling them dumb. We all know this song. Nirvana, dumb. Oh, okay. I thought you were calling them dumb. More like David dumb for thinking that. Yeah, you dumb. Very simple idea. From all sides. Very simple idea.

And essentially, it's just like stupid people actually maybe have a happier life. Yes. This movie, seeing this, I'm like, I want to be dumb. I don't want to know all about this. You're a cipher. Ignorance is bliss. Right. I do not want to touch the ineffable beauty of the world. I see all this and it's just like.

I just want to be like. Give me that. Give me that. I'm like, I watched this movie. I'm like, okay, how do I learn how to like football? Because maybe I could watch that, and that will help me get through living? I don't care. What if we keep doing this podcast,

but you're just like, I didn't watch the movie. You guys like football? It's good. Guys, if you've been to Applebee's recently, it rules. Okay, Applebee's does rule. But no, but this is why half the stuff I like is dumb. You know, like all the shit where people are like,

why does Griffin eat all this terrible food? Why does he like all these weird things? They're really coming at your diet. Why does he buy all these toys? And it's like, because half the time I need to like, just like fucking dull my mind with things that are just like baseline enjoyment, no deeper thought. Right.

And then the other half the time I think about everything too much. Anyway, Applebee's has a big Long Island iced tea summer with $1. What's our running time at? 70 minutes. 70 minutes? It's pretty rapid for us.

Briskest episode ever. I mean, we sort of talked about the end at the beginning. There's a breeze. And he senses it's his I mean we sort of talked about the end at the beginning there's a breeze and he senses it's his wife dying he sees the successful launch of his plane but then he has this final conversation

with his dream manifestation of his idol trying to reassure him his sort of guilt and his second guessing of the way he lived his entire life. I'm trying to think of any other part of the movie we might have missed, but I guess not.

Even though it's not a short movie, it's like two hours. Yeah, two seconds. Two hours and change, right. It is pretty quiet and the plotting is pretty spare. Yes. Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of him just drawing and testing planes. Yeah, well well you know

gotta test those planes should we hate him should we hate him should we do the box office game sure anyway this movie

is beautiful there was a thing well maybe I'll talk about this first it's a thing we've overlooked and we recorded most of these episodes before any of them had come out right

uh huh we banked these up yeah so we we recorded them largely We recorded most of these episodes before any of them had come out, right? Uh-huh. We banked these up. Yeah. So we recorded them largely out of the echo chamber of hearing people react to them. Sure. But when the Nausicaa episode came out, and we're recording this right after that, I saw some people on Reddit pointing out, like, you know, the context that I hope you guys get to, which I can now say

we did not in an earlier episode, so I think it is important to talk about, is that his first two movies are adaptations, right? One's an adaptation of his own work, but a work that was fairly successful and long-running. And the other thing is an adaptation of someone else's work that was incredibly successful and super long-running.

But the real dividing point for him is when he makes Castle in the Sky because he decides to found an animation studio on the principle of making original films, which at that time was pretty much unheard of. That people were not using anime to tell original stories. That it was predominantly adaptations of pre-existing works, continuations of long-running franchises,

the idea of making one-off films based on no preexisting material or being based on Western material or obscure sources, not being based on manga or folklore or what have you, was very bizarre. And he kind of shifted the entire industry just by doing that, by planting his flag, by Castle in the Sky being successful, by being able to continue running in that direction and make films that are just films. And what is very much kind of the opposite of what we're experiencing today in our monoculture, which is it's hard to just make

a thing that is just one thing. Everything has to have the promise of it can go on forever and ever and ever in some sort of sense. And he kind of flipped that script in a fascinating way. And this movie as a final film is like a film that not only wouldn't have existed if he hadn't had the career he had. But also the notion of anyone making a film like this was kind of absurd and unimaginable. And that he did sort of like expand the boundaries of animation in a way that I don't know if anyone has done in Western culture with that level of critical and financial success. I think there's a shift in terms of what Pixar did that moved things away from the Disney model because the model was so binary in terms of an animated film is always a musical. It's always a fairy tale.

It's always this kind of thing with very little variation. But we still have yet to see people really experiment with – Even Pixar really just ended up creating their own model. It's not like they created a sort of limitless sandbox or whatever. Right. And to some extent, Miyazaki created his own model, but there's

more variation within it. Other filmmakers within the studio established different models. Also, other filmmakers did their own things outside of the studio. He made it a commercially viable thing for animators to be able to pitch original films.

I just think it's a fascinating thing. We hadn't talked about it and I didn't realize that until someone pointed it out on the Reddit. Thank you to the person who I'm now not crediting because I'm bad at my job. I'm just going to – before we do the box office game, that was all good. A few things I wanted to remember. Thank you for your support. I support you fully and completely. Great.

Miyazaki created the manga just as a hobby. I didn't think the movie would be, it could be turned into a movie because it wasn't for children. Yeah. But a staff member said the children should be exposed to things they're not familiar with.

And Miyazaki was like, you're right. Crazy. The kind of interaction you'd love to watch. You'd love to see it. He'd love to see it he was inspired also by this quote from he wrote all I wanted to do was

make something beautiful which I'm sure is the kind of thing judging from this film he saw so much in like so much tragedy and so much you know transcendence what else was it Venice You know, transcendence. What else? Was it Venice?

Have you seen Tell Them Anything You Want? No. The documentary about Marie Sendak that Spike Jonestead? No, I never have. Yeah, no, I never have. I am aware of it. It's maybe one of my favorite films ever. Sure. And it's like 45 minutes long, so I don't talk about it. I am aware of it. It's maybe one of my favorite films ever. Sure.

And it's like 45 minutes long, so I don't talk about it. You can talk about it. You're not allowed. It's Fight Club rules. No, but because it's like a long short, I don't think of it when I'm thinking about like movies. But it's a thing I probably watch 10 times. And Murray Sendak is a guy who has a similarly weird sort of like monastic approach to his work and his relationship to his audience and the purity of the work

and his discomfort with the success and commercializations of the lives that some of his things have gone on to and all that. But it's like him at his home in his dying years and sort of looking back on everything. And he was a very prickly man. And I think a very prickly man.

And I think a very fascinating man. But he says this thing, there's this moment in it, and he's very unsentimental. You know, like Spike Jonze keeps on asking him, like, are you scared about death? And he's like, no, it's just going to happen. And he keeps on joking, like, I'll die tomorrow. I'll die tomorrow. I'm going to be dead.

No one cares. I'm some guy. I made some books. Who cares? And he's like, Maurice, how can you say that? And he's like, none of it matters. Like he's like very sort of flippant about it. Like I just showed up. None of my work, you know. I just was a guy. I did a thing.

But there's one moment that's, you know, he talks about when his dog died and he almost cries. He talks about when his longtime romantic partner died and he almost cries. almost cries. He talks about when his long time romantic partner died and he almost cries. And the only other moment where he gets emotional about something is he talks about how he still feels like he has one work left in him. And he never did another work. There's

no other work from the time that they started filming this documentary. But the thing he says, he like closes his eyes and it's like he's imagining what the thing is. He doesn't have an idea of what the project is but he knows what he wants the project to be. And he's like, I want to make something that is just so simple. And he says it with this intensity that has like haunted me.

Where he could see so clearly. He's like, everything I've made has too much going on. You know? And he's like, what if I could make something with the bare minimum that had the same sort of effect and i feel like that's like a big miyazaki principle for as much as he puts into a lot of these movies it is the philosophy of like what's the simplest way to tell a very complicated story or to add very complicated creatures or visuals or any of that you know that's sort of clarity.

And this feels like his simplest movie in a lot of ways. And, you know, if this isn't his final film, which it isn't, and who knows if How Do You Live will actually be his final film or not. I hope it is similarly simple. Okay. You know? How do you live? Not well.

We already did this joke. Oh, also, this movie lost to Frozen for Best Animated Future Film of the Year. Of course. I mean, it wasn't going to win, but... No, he got his award. That's how the Oscars feel about it. Right. Despicable Me 2 got robbed.

Despicable Me 2 was one of the nominees. Can you name the other two? Okay, wait. So Wind Rises, Frozen, Despicable Me Too. There's not a Pixar in there? No. And there's not a Laika in there? No.

So were the other two G Kids releases, or was one of them a studio release? One of them's a studio. Okay. I don't think the other one was G Kids, but it was like an art movie. Huh. One of them's a studio. Okay. I don't think the other one was G-Kids, but it was like an art movie. Huh. One of them's a studio.

It's one of the major... I think, I know, it looks like this was G-Kids, the art movie. Is it The Red Turtle? No. That was a couple years later. A couple years. I'm trying to timeline this. Was it, uh, like Secret of Kells?

Nope. Or what's the other one called? Song of the Sea? No. Okay. What country? French or French-Canadian. It's not Ernest and Celestine.

It is. Okay. And then the other one's a studio film, and it's not a DreamWorks, or is it? I couldn't... Yeah, I think it is a DreamWorks, yeah. You think it is a DreamWorks? Yeah, it's a DreamWorks. And it's a first film.

It's not a sequel? No. What the fuck is that? What the fuck? Is this... This existed? Yeah, it existed. They're making a sequel now. What? Oh, that? What the fuck? Is this existed? Yeah, it existed. They're making a sequel now.

What? Oh, The Croods? Yeah. What the fuck is The Croods? Some people speak up for that one. I've never seen it. I am not a fan. Yeah.

That movie. It's like Caveman. Caveman. Yeah. They have canceled, uncanceled, recanceled, uncanceled that movie. I believe it's being made. Now. But they keep on canceling it and uncanceling it.

When I was working on Nicky and Sarah Live, the MTV show, that was supposed to be the daily show, but about pop culture and for teenage girls, in which MTV executives

several weeks into the show decided we don't think girls like jokes and asked two professional female stand-up comedians to put less jokes in their show. The world's bad. But I was assigned to do a sketch that was based around Emma Stone and Ryan Reynolds

were going to be in town doing a junket for the Croods. And the bit was Nikki and Sarah, Nikki Glaser, Sarah Schaefer, gonna go to the junket and ask Ryan Reynolds and Emma Stone really dumb questions. And the bit will be

that I am in studio as their entertainment correspondent, but also the world's number one Crood fan. And I'm really angry that they didn't ask Crood-related questions. And so they went and they shot the interview,

and then we wrote our sketch, and the sketch was, no one cares about the crudes. The joke is that no one cares about the crudes. Write all the crude specifics in the world. Have him talk about the crudes as if it's like a sacred text, and it's just me flipping out about something dumb that I like. Right? Classic Griffin Newman bit. Sure.

And MTV killed the sketch because they thought we were giving too much free promotion to the Croods. Okay. And we said the premise of the sketch is that— Yeah, no, I heard you. No one cares about it. And they went, well, you can't do it. And it was going to air—it was going to be live the next day. And they'd already filmed the interview.

Live New York Tuesday night. So they said to us, you just have to rewrite the sketch quickly and just have there be no Croods references. Turned out very badly. Wind rises to transcendence of blind film. Is that the same year as The Croods? You just said it was!

Like, you know, nominated the same year. I said that was the craziest note I've ever gotten. It's a weird note! I don't know, MTV's very stupid. Or was. I agree, 100%. I don't know, unless they want to hire us now. Yeah, exactly. Hire us right now, Viacom. Okay, box office game. Yeah, alright. Here we go. I don't know, cut The Croods story out, or Yeah, exactly. Hire us right now, Viacom. Okay, box office game. Yeah, all right.

Here we go. Here we go. Cut the crude story out or put it in three times. Yeah, put it in, like, sprinkle it through the episode. Sprinkle it a couple times. Yeah, right. Do it Pulp Fiction style. Spread it out.

Yeah, exactly. Get little glimpses of it. I don't know. Yeah, make it a Patreon bonus. Yeah. But label it, no, don't listen. It's its own tier. Boring story inside.

Yeah. We zinged him. It's its own tear. Boring story inside. Yeah. We zinged him. You zinged me. Oh, boy. I'm just kidding. Rude. More like rude story. More like rude story.

I'm just getting revenge for that dumb dig you did earlier. The Nirvana dumb dig. Oh, yeah. That was pretty brutal, wasn't it? Fucking revenge for that. Revenge is sweet. Oh, man. What if Miyazaki's like,

I'm going to do another movie. It's called Death Wish. It's a remake of Death Wish. It's about a guy that kills people. Like, if he made the most crass movie ever. He's like,

I've always wanted to make a really gross movie that sucks. Just a toxic adventure. Right, exactly. Sexist drone. He's like, how do we live what's

the message i should leave to my grandson right february 21st jesus christ do your mouth do your juice harp february 21st 2014 right after my birthday february 19th now Yeah, so 2014. Yeah. That's weird. What, because it came out here later? Yeah, I guess so. What are you confused by? Well, why do I consider it a 2013 movie? Because I believe it had a limited qualifying year-end release.

That's like not in the box office because they don't report that. Right, and then they waited to release it wide until after the Oscar nomination. I believe when they released it wide, it had the dub. I mean, you could choose. You think that was the dubbed version of the film? That's it. Thank you for clearing that up. It debuts limited, you know, 21 screens, makes 300 grand. Makes five, which is more than I thought this movie made.

Yeah, yeah. Because this was also released under Touchstone. Like the other Miyazakis, the other G-Blades. They were Disney. Right, and Disney was like, this is not a kids movie. Which it is not. It has smoking as well,

which they have. There's a lot of smoking in this movie, actually. Oh, it's killing me. It kept making me want to have a cigarette. Well, smoking is kind of cool to look at in a movie anyway,

but visually, you know, animated, it's very cool. What if the next Miyazaki film, How Do You Live, is just about jeweling he's like I love it

I love it I love sucking on those sweet pods for the record I quit vaping cool I approve cool

but you're smoking so more sort of you know up and down with you I quit vaping but I added a lot more smoking to the sked

this is working out all right the lego man fuck i gave everyone is the lego movie three weeks and it's third week still number one adding theater it was a huge film it was you'll forget open a 70 ended up at 250, which is why the drop off on the second one is like so kind of crazy. But it's, they killed the Golden Gloose. They did.

They did too much. It's just the second one. It's the fourth one. You know what I mean? That's the problem. Look, and we know that Lego Batman's a masterpiece and we stan,

but Lego Ninjago is the one that I think killed the franchise by having those two movies come out in the same year was crazy and we called it when it was happening on this podcast. Check the tape. Okay, number two.

I believe it's opening this week. It's an action film. Okay. With, you know, a big star, but he's an older star now. I think he's going for a taken thing. Is it the Sean Penn one? No. You've worked with this actor. Oh, is it? It Penn one? No. You've worked with this actor.

Oh, is it? It's a cost movie. It's not Three Days to Kill? Yeah. It is that one. That's it. It's the McG joint, Three Days to Kill.

McG, I believe it's a relativity. I believe so. Hailee Steinfeld. Hailee Steinfeld's in that? I believe she plays his daughter. Yeah, Amber Heard. Yeah. Connie Nielsen. Yeah. What's it about? I believe she plays his daughter. Yeah, Amber Heard. Yeah.

Connie Nielsen. Yeah. What's it about? He's got three days to kill or something? Yeah, and she's his daughter. I don't know. I just remember it coming out underperforming and going like, oh boy. Because draft day was like three weeks away.

But I mean, this is such a nothing. Whatever. Anyway, came out, made 30 million bucks. That was supposed to be the corridor of like he's in Jack Ryan and then he's in Three Days to Kill and then Draft Day's gonna come out and he's gonna reclaim the title. Didn't quite go that far. Didn't happen.

Draft Day's still remembered though. Three Days to Kill is not. It is not. Third film is it's like an epic period I guess it's an actioner, from a director I admire, but I've never seen this movie. And unless we go do them on the miniseries, I probably never will. Hmm.

You admire, but you've never seen it. And I feel like we were just talking about this movie. Is it like based, I mean you said it's period, is it like based on a true story? It's based on like a historical event, period is it like based on a true story? It's based on like a historical event. Yeah. It's based on like a real historical event. Yeah.

Like a tragedy or like a triumphant event? Tragedy. It's a tragedy. Yeah it seemed like it sucked. Yeah no fun. This isn't like Pompeii is it?

It is? Another movie that like just like oh right that was a thing there was like a Kit Harington Kit Harington Kit Harington Emily Browning

right Kiefer Sutherland yes it's got a very weird cast Jared Harris Carrie Ann Moss yeah you guys should see it

weird cast is there any chance it's good I feel like the reviews were terrible I think it was probably Quentin Tarantino's top film of that year he always puts a WS

on his top 10 I like WS but uh yeah I don't know. It seems a little boring. Also, it's just one of those movies where they're like, well, life's good here in old Pompeii.

How's the mountain doing? Looks good. No trouble there. Anyway, it's off to work for me. And you're like, when's it going to fucking blow up? Come on. I know what it does. Be good if you made a movie called Pompeii

and it's just set at another time. And they're like, and the mountain never blew up. Sure. Was this its opening weekend? Yeah. This movie really, really did not connect. Opened to 10.

Yeah. Gross 23. Yeah. Weirdly made 94 foreign, so 117 worldwide. Yeah. Made 80% of its money overseas. Crazy. But Kit Harington's like a couple years into Game of Thrones

at that point, and they were like, movie star? And then he hasn't really led any movies since then. He's been busy with Game of Thrones, which is... I know. No, I am not... I'm saying Miller-Clark's done more stuff outside. Some of the other people have done more stuff outside.

Yeah. Since then, I mean, well, Seventh Son. Is he the lead in that? No, he's in it. He's in it, right? Ben Barnes is the son? He made a Spooks movie, which is called MI5 in this country. That's kind of it. Yeah, and he was in the Xavier Dolan movie. Well, King of kind of it. Yeah. And he was in the

Xavier Dolan movie. King of the North, you know. King of the North. You know what he's funny in is the Seven Days in Hell. Oh, yes.

He's so funny in that. Yes. You know, the Andy Samberg movie. TV. Oh, I didn't see that. It's really funny.

Okay. Next film on the old film. I think you just find personally objectionable. I hate it. I don't know if you've seen it, but you object. I object.

I think you've seen it. I think I've seen it, and I object. It's a remake. Is it the Robocop remake? No good. You have seen it. I have seen it. Yes, I saw it.

Even when I was still not watching the Robocop sequels, I went to see that. It is not good. No. It makes a lot of really, really stupid choices. Sure. Is he not a Robocop? Yeah, that's one of the biggest dumb choices.

Okay. Now, the fifth film here was sort of a prestige film, but it's coming out in February. A pushback? Possibly. I don't remember if it was. Yeah. Made like 80 million. Wow.

154 worldwide. Monuments, man. And like, you know, completely forgotten. Yes. Big Cass, Clooney, Damon, Bill Murray, Cate Blanchett. That was definitely a pushback because they thought like six months earlier, they were like, I mean, this is going to fucking sweep the Oscars, right? It did have that Good Shepherd. Well, the names, you know, the names.

Right. And when I interviewed Clooney, he was like, I think I fucked up Leatherheads. I don't think I fucked up that movie. I wanted to make that movie. I wanted to make an old fashioned 40s men on a mission pretty straight down the middle movie. That's exactly what that movie is. I have never

seen it, so I could not confirm or deny. That's weird because he famously has a bunch of emails that came out in the Sony hacks that are him apologizing to Amy Pascal for fucking up the movie. Here's a

headline. George Clooney racked by guilt over Monuments Men, Sony email show. Well, that's not what he said to me. He emailed Amy Pascal. He hated the reviews. Oh, okay. Yes. He said it's getting worse. He, he hated the reviews. Oh, okay, okay. All right. Yes. He said, it's getting worse.

He needed protection from the reviews. Let's just make it a hit. I haven't slept in 30 hours. It's 7 a.m. She said, we will protect you by making money. That's the best revenge. Man, I kind of. And he responded, I adore you, Amy. You are literally the only person running a studio that loves film.

I fear I've let you all down. Not my intention. I apologize. I've just lost touch. Who knew, said Clooney. Sorry, I won't do it again. I feel for the guy. He wants people to like his movies.

I know. Sheesh. That's a little bleak, right? Well, I mean, he keeps getting to make things, obviously, because, you know, he's famous. Yes. But it's kind of nice to know that he wasn't like, well, fuck the critics. You know, who cares? No. He was like emailing her. He was like, I'm about to get roasted like a Kenny Rogers.

It's a Kenny Rogers in here. And I fucked up. She's like, it's okay. We'll make money. It's all right. And he's like, no, no, it's not good enough. It is kind of crazy how none of the film's posts, Good Night and Good Luck

have connected yep that's the most successful one 100% and it's a movie that no one remembers and was certainly greenlit with the intention of this is gonna fucking sweep you got an Oscar nomination for the Ides of March yeah which is very bizarre you got a screenplay nod

I believe so I remember them saying like how does this like at this point change your career to get a screenplay nod? I believe so. I remember them saying like, how does this – like at this point change your career to get a screenplay nod? Because he was already rolling like 10 nominations deep at that point. And I remember him at some press conference going like, well, it's a big deal for me actually because if I'm like directing and starring and producing a film and they want to hire someone else to write it and I think I'd like to write it myself. I'm able to go like, hey, look, I have an Oscar nomination. So it makes me look a little more sort of verified as a screenwriter.

And I was like, oh, thank God George Clooney now has the leverage to convince a studio to let him do a fourth job on the film. I don't think that was an issue he had. He worded it that way. I understand that, but I'm like... No, of course not. They let him do everything. He makes these movies and they let him do everything. Sub makes these movies they let him do everything uh Superbicon

Leatherheads, Ides of March Monuments Man am I forgetting one uh that's it yeah he produced Argo he won an Oscar for that too oh yes we told him to Argo fuck himself

and he gladly accepted right man so Miyazaki we gotta do a bonus episode because to Argo fuck himself. And he gladly accepted. Right. Man. So Miyazaki, we got to do a bonus episode because we can't end it on Clooney discussion. Well.

Can't end the miniseries on like... Anyway, so in conclusion, George Clooney won an Oscar for producing Argo. Yeah. And a supporting Oscar that no one remembers.

Yeah, well that's why when everyone's like... When I've been like, Brad Pitt might win this year for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, people are like, oh, he's not going to win for supporting after all these years. And I'm like, George Clooney did exactly that. That was exactly what he did.

A film that no one has talked about since. Well, what if Syria, but also Iran, and also... I did not until this moment realize that's what the title is. I've never seen that film it's okay it's not the worst from the director adventures of Dr. Doolittle

what a great end to a miniseries it's not the worst movie it's basically just a movie that's real fucked up over there and it's kind of America's fault and you're like got it copy that but you know it's not our fault

I was gonna say this podcast but it is explicitly our fault 100% our fault Ben is basically absolved from blame yes it's the two of us it's both your fault now come on Miyazaki I do know that he yes he's been overloading your emotions yeah

we're free of that experience we're gonna watch Whisper of the Heart at some point we're gonna watch No, come on, Miyazaki. I do know that he's been overloading your emotions. Yeah. We're free of that experience. We're going to watch Whisper of the Heart at some point. We're going to watch a documentary maybe, but that's basically the end of Miyazaki. And look, we're going to do this bonus episode. It'll drop on Thursday. We're going to cover the documentaries. Name the two titles because I'm forgetting.

The Kingdom, David. Kingdom of Dreams and Madness. And the other one is called... Let me look it up. Okay. But then we get to go into Demi. Which is going to be fun because we haven't had director that varied in a good little while. Varied and also just like, you know, like some of them are just going to be silly genre movies.

Especially early on. God, I'm excited for that. Remember when it was just like, a man's got a gun and he don't like that guy. Yeah, I'm excited for that and I'm excited to watch the goofy comedies. Yep. So I think we'll have a schedule out. Yes.

That will lay out basically the miniseries because we do have some other things that will sort of be coming out from previous directors. We got a cover. So all that you can refer to our Twitter our Instagram for the schedule.

It's all good. Good! You gotta make this episode end with a bang, David. I'm trying to find the name of the other documentary which I did watch. Because that's the one that has the AI zombie man. It's about him coming out of retirement to do Borrower of the Caterpillar. Right. I don't know.

Okay. Never Ending Man. That's what it's called. There we go. There it is. There it is. We're doing Never Ending Man, Kingdom of Hopes and Dreams. What's it called?

Dreams and Madness. Dreams and Madness. So check in for that. Check in for Demi. We already did the Joker and the Gemini Man episode. God, who knows how those fucking things went. Yeah, who knows how Talking the Walk 2019 went. Bunch of question marks.

That's coming right up. Oh, really? Yeah, that's next week. So by the time you're listening to this, we will hopefully know exactly what we're doing. Because right now, we don't. Yeah, right. Well, we'll see. Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

I would like to say this. Go ahead. I think that if somehow I ever have children, which is crazy. Yeah. The world I want to live in. Me too. This is the future that liberals want is multiple hostiles running around. Yeah. The world I want to live in. Me too. This is the future that liberals want. Multiple Huxleys running around.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stomping on the dirt. If you ever have children. I'm going to show them Miyazaki movies. Yeah. Cool. For sure. Yeah.

I think there's a lot of really great. I can't wait to do that. Great values in his films. And I'm really, thank you. Oh, you're welcome. For introducing me. Well, Griffin's idea. And I'm really, thank you. Oh, you're welcome. For introducing me. Well, Griffin's idea to do this too. So thank you, Griffin, as well.

Well, but my idea was to have David introduce me too. Right, right, right. Except maybe like the heavier ones. Probably not for kids. You know, build to them. Yeah. Thank you all very much for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe.

Thanks to Andrew Goodo for our social media. Joe Bowen and Pat Rollins for our artwork. Lane Montgomery for our theme song. Go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit. TeePublic for some real nerdy shirts. And go to Patreon for some more real

nerdy shit, including bonus shit like Talking the Walk 2019 coming up. shirts and go to Patreon for some more real nerdy shit including bonus shit like Talking The Walk 2019 coming up. Tune in next week for the start of Jonathan Demme. We're doing the first three Roger Corman movies. That's right. There's not going to be a break because we just had the two other episodes. We've got to get going and we had to do two new releases.

But we've got to get going on Demme. Crazy Mama, Cage Heap, Fightin' Mad. We're doing three Cormans in one episode. That's right. One of them is practically impossible to watch. But we've figured it out. Sure. Yes.

So anyway, thank you all for listening. And as always, Miyazaki broke me. Which would you choose? What do you mean? I didn't point. Wow. Wow. Wow. Let? I didn't point. Wow. Wow. Wow.

It's taking a dramatic pause. Wow. Okay. Mater. Okay, ready? There are going to be clear points. I'm ready. Okay, ready? Which would you choose?

A world with podcasts or a world without? What do you mean? Humanity has always dreamt of listening, but the dream is cursed. My aircraft are designed... I fucked it. I fucked it up. Let me take it again. Here we go.

Which would you choose? A world with pure... Wow. Wow. Descending into chaos. Okay, ready? Perfect. Ready? Gonna nail in one.