Blank Check with Griffin & David - The Witches with Richard Lawson

Episode Date: January 31, 2021

Over four months and 19 movies, we have finally reached the end of our mini series on the films of Robert Zemeckis! Richard Lawson (Vanity Fair) joins to discuss 2020's The Witches and #thetwofriends offer up their filmography rankings. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

that's how you want to play? We'll play the podcast way. I don't know, right? What the fucking... That was, yeah, that was great. What does this character say? What does she sound like? I don't know. It's hard because the accent's so specific that she's doing,

so it's really hard to nail it. It's hard. I don't have months to hammer it out like she did. Right. She spent so much time watching half of a James Bond movie and Angelina Jolie's scenes from Alexander to prep for that accent.

I mean, there's just so much that went into it. Wait, was that not Angelina Jolie in the movie? Well, she, I mean, Anne Hathaway ingested Angelina Jolie, so she's inside her,

but, you know, you can't really see her. What if Bob Zimakas had just reused naked gold angelina jolie from beowulf someone pointed out in the reddit recently how much of a pattern there is in bobby c's filmography of using people's likeness against their will it's really like if the numbers really add up from the beatles to bill clinton to angelina jolie to crispin glover yes to humphrey bogart humphrey bogart in in tales from the crypt four former presidents yeah that's true right one

in contact three and gump yes no absolutely i'm only one living president but you're right you're right yeah i'm just saying maybe at some point zemeckis should announce a movie where that's his cast. Gold Angelina Jolie, reused footage Crispin Glover, four presidents, Humphrey Bogart. He technically stole Christopher Lloyd's image to make Back to the Future. Like that was, Christopher Lloyd didn't agree to be in that. No. He doesn't have any idea that he was in those movies. If you bring it up to him now, he's like, huh?

What? Kid, I was in the Addams Family. I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, it's... I created Frasier. Wait, no, that's a different one. That's a different one. One of my all-time favorite film Twitter jokes. I liked Pete's Dragon a lot, but it was kind of rude of the crew to not tell Robert Redford

that he was in a movie. I was watching Songbird, the quarantine movie with Hot Archie, and Peter Stormare is like the bad guy in it. And it's very much one of those things

of like, when did they tell Peter Stormare that they were making a movie? They just found him wandering around Los Angeles knocking on people's door. Was it just a break-in?

Well, you know what? You know what? I'm sorry. The quote opening was kind of weak, David. I'm sorry. I know you want to get the show started, but let me just a break in. You know what? You know what? I'm sorry that the quote opening was kind of weak, David. I'm sorry. I know you want to get the show started, but let me let me just try it again. Let me do it with the tagline for this movie. Okay.

Oh, please. This Halloween. Bring the big podcast home. Yes, the big podcast, The biggest podcast there is Because of course the tagline for this movie Is just this Halloween bring the big screen home Yeah Well you know

This is a Max original okay And that means it's from my friend Max From second grade who I used to play soccer with That's what I assumed that means right That branding This film is a Max original David what were you going to say? What was I going to say? When?

Before I cut you off with that stupid tagline thing Oh, I can't remember I literally can't remember And that was a minute ago I mean, you know Anytime I'm thinking about this movie It just seems like Things just kind of leave my mind really, really quickly.

Oh, here's what I was going to say. Here's what I was going to say. Is this the first movie we've ever covered where the top three billed actors are Anne Hathaway, Octavia Spencer, and Stanley Tucci? Or I'm trying to remember. Was there, is that Inception? Was that, I'm trying, you know, what else had those three? I mean, obviously, Hathaway and Tucci have worked together before. Yes, obviously, they're in Prada.

And then I keep on feeling like the other two sides of that triangle have worked together before, but is that just in my imagination? Octavia and Tucci? Tucci played all the math and hidden figures. Of course. Octavia Tucci, Octavia Hathaway. Have neither of those happened before?

Well, you know, what's the easy way to look this up these days? Because the problem is now if you Google these combinations, they're just like, the witches? I heard you were interested

in a Max original. Yeah, everyone's interested in a Max original. Look, everyone's interested in a Max original. Look, throughout quarantine, I've had days where I am just a slug, a depressive slug, and I cannot function. And I have days where I'm like manic and I'm over-focused. It's hyper-obsessive on different things. I have too much energy in an unhealthy way and then i have days like today where i just wake up and i just go like i just i just don't wanna i just fucking don't give a shit about anything and then i watched the witches and i watched the disney investor share conference fucking shit and then i text you guys

i was like can we push back 30 minutes i just my brain just doesn't want to fucking do this i just i can't string together cochchran thought. I assumed you just started the movie late. No, because I was watching the Disney thing. I was watching the Disney thing after. But I just didn't feel... I just was like... And you said right before we started recording, don't worry,

we'll only do 40 minutes on the movie. But it does feel like one of these things where it's like, what do we even say about this thing? Which I don't feel like I dislike as much as most people. It's just kind of like impossible to really form a strong opinion about. Do you know how many, I have seen this movie three times now. Have you really? What?

Yeah, because I watched it when it was first available for critics. And then I had to review it like two weeks later. And I was like, I don't really remember it. I have to watch it for like the details. I watched it a second time and was like, oh, there aren't details. And then I forgot that there weren't details and I watched it a third time for this podcast and I

was like, I got everything I needed from the first viewing. He keeps bringing you back though. You think you're out, Bobby pulls you back in. Here's the thing, and you can introduce this podcast and our guest maybe after this but look if this movie had come out in march maybe i would have gotten a little more out of it this movie had come out in theaters and i had sat down in a big room with a nice popcorn and soda combo to watch it maybe i would gotten lit out of the camera moves and the you

know costumes and right you know like oh there's some stuff going on like nine to ten months into quarantine on hbo max like on a tuesday night an adaptation of a book i know backwards and forwards and like a movie that's already been made i was just like I know I'm sorry I just don't have the like emotional I don't have the sympathy for this like I I'm just this is getting some of my attention and I'm just gonna kind of stare at the wall sometimes maybe it's not the movie's fault maybe it's the world's fault but like this this one's just not gonna break through that's That's all. I, I, I couldn't agree more. It is also fascinating that this is one of those movies where like, I feel like a lot of the things that have gotten, gotten punted straight to streaming recently, you watch them and you go, wait, how was this ever going to come out in theaters? Right?

Like Artemis Fowl. Right. And you watch this and you're like, this is a movie that could only exist in theaters. It somehow makes less sense on a streaming service. Like all of its strengths and weaknesses only really make sense if you're held captive in a theater for an hour and 45 minutes. And that's been the big realization during this whole year is like what movies cannot survive any kind of distraction. You know, like this isn't a great movie no matter where you see it, but like a dog barks on the street outside or the wind goes through a tree and I'm like, huh?

I just lose this movie instantly. Or just, you know, devoid of the shame of looking at your phone, you know? Sitting on your couch where you're like, I could just up my disney emoji blitz score now there's there's almost nothing holding you back right who's watching no one knows i mean here's the most damning backhanded praise i thought of at the points i enjoyed in this movie okay this is like a pretty good late period tim burton movie well that's the thing though when you're watching

it you're like every 10 minutes you have to be like remember this is not a tim burton film and you're like what no it is what are you talking about and then you have to like look check imdb oh zemeckis that's weird everything about this just screams burton like but okay i guess eva green isn't in it yeah it's very miss peregrine like obviously as people know my favorite tim burton movie ever of course you're the king of peregrines yeah but it definitely exists in the same universe as yes but but i'll say for me like dumbo Like Dumbo edges out, which is by a good margin because it has like it feels personal in many ways. It has ideas in it.

There are moments of genuine inspiration. Like, you know, there are things in it, right? It's a lopsided movie that we, you know, halfheartedly defend. But I prefer that. But this I prefer probably to like to Peregrine, certainly to Alice in Wonderland. It feels more coherent than those sorts of movies. I mean, like Zemeckis innately has a better story sense than Burton. with regards to itself, like on its own terms, and it feels a little less obnoxious than something like Alice, which is just throwing shit at you

against the walls. This is like a little more focused in its mania. Well, because the source material is, you know, a classic, obviously, depending on what you think about Roald Dahl. But the thing is, three things happen in the story.

He meets a witch, they go to the hotel. You know, it's so simple. And you can't really judge that up too much. I mean, Nicholas Roeg didn't do it. Zemeckis doesn't do it. Whereas something with Peregrine, which has a more modern sense of storytelling sensibility, or an Alice movie that they can just do whatever the fuck they want,

then you have too much room for embellishment. movie that they can just do whatever the fuck they want, then you have too much room for embellishment. It's also nice to watch a movie like this where, unlike Peregrine or Alice, there aren't like franchise ambitions. There's all the weird Roald Dahl branding on the film, including that weird logo that happens in the middle of the credits. I hate that. Where clearly Roald Dahl is like the estate is trying to really monetize the library a lot more and brand it.

But like this is just a self-contained story. It's just a movie. The exact kind of thing that is maybe most in danger of falling by the wayside. Like it is bizarre. I should say reluctantly. I should admit that this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. Oh, I'm David. I'm Griffin. Oh, I'm David.

I'm so sorry. I was zoning out thinking about Robert Zemeckis' The Witches. Your cue time is getting... I'm sometimes more on it than others. It's not getting worse. It's variable. We all like to rag on all the things

Griffin does incorrectly, but maybe we found a thing that David does incorrectly I'm so sorry so the score is 47 Griffin 1 David the podcast is called blank check with Griffin David it's about filmographies directors who have massive success early on in their career and are

given a series of blank checks make whatever crazy passion projects they want sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, darling. I don't, is that the? There's something, I can't even, I watched this movie hours ago, and I cannot remember,

is it like an Eastern European thing? What is the voice? She's like Russian, yeah. It's Russian meets Scandinavian. Right. It's the border of Finland and Russia, I guess. It's a choice. I'll say that.

And I don't mean that in a... You know how people are like, well, that was a choice. I'm like, look, she made a choice. That's something. It's also... I mean, I guess we can talk about the Rogue film, but no matter what you think of the Rogue film

The Angelica Houston performance is The thing that sticks out the most, I guess Outside of like the horrifying makeup effects And, you know, the fact that it traumatized children So, I guess it's a tough act to live up to, right? It's a challenge, sort of This is very faint praise I want to say this, like

Accent ragging out of the way i genuinely enjoy this movie whenever hathaway or octavia are on screen i enjoy it more i don't love it but i'm like entertained i find that they're both innately engaging and i think they're both having fun here the mice shit just a hundred percent i was about to say but like right yeah you enjoy it when anne hathaway and octavia spencer on screen and you love it with all of your heart when there's little mice running around right that's what you're about to say that's that's what you're going for right and you just love it so much it is bizarre how much much the mouse shit loses me.

I mean, they suck. Like, it was just automatic turn off. I told a story recently. I didn't tell this story, but it was on Twitter. People were doing the meme of, like, what's the best movie going experience you ever had? And I shared a story of when my grandfather and I went to see the Jude Law Alfie remake, like, six weeks after it came out and bombed. And the only other people in the theater were like an ancient looking man, like older than my grandfather, who was probably nearing 90 at the time and his handler. And the guy looked like just kind of mentally incapacitated.

Okay. And so there's just this guy who's like sitting there like frozen and they play the trailers and he's just sitting there frozen. I keep on looking back to the guy because he's the only other guy in the theater. I'm kind of curious. Right. And then the trailer for the SpongeBob movie comes up and the guy suddenly like comes to life, leans forward in his seat and just goes, Boo! Wow.

Boo! And just keeps booing for the entirety of the trailer. Then the trailer stops. He stops. He goes back to the sunken place. The other trailers play. And then right before the movie starts, there's like a branded SpongeBob, you know, don't forget to get your popcorn and turn off your cell phones thing. And he's back on it.

He turns on again. He leans in and goes, boo. And I felt like that old guy every time the mice came on screen. And that's how you met Rex Reed. That's how I met Rex Reed. And he voted Alfie for best picture that year. I thought you were going to say

that your best movie going experience was the time you and your grandpa had a war. But I guess that's just mine. Well, no, that's my worst movie-going experience because I had to watch my grandfather's story butchered on screen. It was not treated with the weight that I think it deserved.

Comedies about war really shouldn't exist. Comedies about, oh, no, absolutely not. It's no laughing matter. Comedies about death, comedies about war. Only the Crypt Keeper would present something so twisted. Folks, this is the end of our miniseries on the infamous Bobby Z, Robert Zemeckis. It's been called podcast away. Today, we're talking about The Witches, his most recent film. And I mean, what is last? Not his last. Not his last. I mean, look, just today, Disney made it clear to us he's got another storybook adaptation coming to a streaming service soon.

Yep. That's, I guess, this period of his career. And our guest. And our guest, of course, from Vanity Fair, from Little Gold Men, from so many episodes of our show, and you know him best as the director of Trolls. Ladies and gentlemen, Richard Lawson. Hello. Thanks for having me back. Is this 8 or 9? This is 9.

I've stopped keeping up with Yoshida. It's tough. It's tough. She's tough. Yoshida is currently at 10. Yoshida has hit 10. You are at 9. You also did a Patreon episode, of course. You experienced some trolls with us. I don't

know if you remember this. 4,000 years ago. It was a thing that we did in the year 2020, which by the time this episode's coming out has now passed, but we are still in it right now. Nothing feels more emblematic of

the before times as a concept. We just walked into a space as three adult men, some strangers painted glitter noses on our face. Then we stepped into a wind tunnel filled with confetti and tried to catch it in plastic bags. Did we spread it to New York?

Is it our fault? I know. I think it's Branch's fault. I was going to say York? Is it our fault? I know. I think it's Branch's fault. I was going to say, it's not our fault. You have to blame the government. Queen Poppy is the one who failed to contain this thing at the earliest stages. Absolutely. Here we are.

We've all gathered here today on Zoom to discuss the witches. Roald Dahl's The dolls the witches it seems to be irritatingly branded like on imdb and letterboxd and so on um don't like that that's what i'm saying though there's some weird roll doll brand initiative and now they signed some big netflix deal right i think they had a warner brothers deal where they were going to try to make a lot of them. And now Netflix just like signed an eight-year deal and fucking Taika Waititi is going to do a 28-part prequel Wonka. Are they going to brand the anti-Semitism too? Or are they going to leave that out?

Well, did you see this? Just this week, striking while the iron's hot, nipping the controversy in the bud, the Roald Dahl official website was updated with an apology for his anti-Semitism. Oh, well, that does it. It was the most bizarre timing.

Like, just two months after the witches, what, 30 years after his death? Sure. They were just like, look, look, we got it. We cannot let this thing get out of control. Yeah, maybe we should. It was like they were looking at the Post-its on there. I'm like, oh, look, we got it. We cannot let this thing get out of control. Yeah, maybe we should. It was like they were like looking at the Post-its on there. I'm like, oh, God, someone get on the phone.

I forgot to apologize for Roald Dahl's anti-Semitism. He was a virulent anti-Semite. Right, right, right, right, right. I mean, he may have enchanted David Sims and millions of other children through his literature, but he forgot to apologize. Roald Dahl, yes. Died in 1990 at the age of 74. But he did see the Rogan film, right?

Yeah. Yes. I think he did, and he approved of it, although he hated the ending, which this movie does not, you know, repeat. This movie actually honors the original ending of the Rogue film, even though the Rogue film is totally much more in line,

I would say, with what Dahl was going for than this. This is more sunshiny in a lot of ways. But I think it's got the inherent Dahl sort of eeriness and cynicism. It does not feel like a whitewashed film to me. You're shaking your head. You disagree strongly. I disagree in that this movie has a lot of antics it does and that's fine it's allowed to have antics but it's antic heavy

and then at the end it just sort of cheerfully is like yeah and i'll die and and like the book has that whiplash ending and you're like oh you know when you're a kid you're just like well that's how the book ends okay like that's fine I guess I just read that book. It's especially weird because this movie, the new version, walks up toward a lot of sinister stuff that the 90 movie and the book doesn't even do with its setting and its lead characters. Yes, and then doesn't approach. And then it doesn't do anything with that. But then I rewatched the Rogue version, and you're like, oh, Houston's a Nazi in this. Right.

And so, I don't know. They're both dark but in different ways. And I just think this one is a little too playful. I agree. But I also think, once again,

it's the mouth shit. It's like so much of Zemeckis as we've covered, especially the second half of Zemeckis, is him just getting tempted by bad sirens in certain areas.

And it just feels like he cannot resist turning half of this movie into fucking tom and jerry antics starring chloe grace morantz i mean oh god who else part of the jerry verse i'm assuming now does kristin did okay here's a question did kristin chenoweth know she was in a movie absolutely not she got turned into a mouse for reasons that we can't get into right now. Six months ago.

Completely different. And then they just sort of made the movie around her. I mean, she's dealing with her own thing right now. It did have something to do with Aaron Sorkin, though. Yeah.

Well, we can't say that. We're legally not allowed to weigh in on that, Richard. Sorry. David, you were talking about how this movie uh does kind of retain the more faithful ending to the book and i haven't read the book in a while i i don't think it was as much of a standby for me my childhood as it sounds like it was for you

i was a big doll kid but this wasn't my my big doll book um can you remind me, the book does end with the characters wishing everyone a very merry Christmas, right? I believe it's have a mice Christmas. It's both. Richard, it's both. Oh, it is? Oh, okay. See, I don't remember the details. I've seen it three times.

They hit the joke eight different times eight very similar ways. Their show, eight different postcards So Roald Dahl actually wrote the song We Are Family But it was presented as something of a poem At the end of The Witches It was like the Oompa Loompa songs

Where it's just kind of like a limerick Octavia Spencer is 50 years old Right? This is the only problem with the ending of this movie Even though the ending is trying to be more faithful Octavia Spencerencer's 50 it is plausible that she could have a grandson of course sure but at the end of the book the the grandma is in her late 80s and so when she says like look you're a mouse you're gonna live for a few more years maybe a little longer because you're a magic mouse and we'll die together because i'm old too it's just a little weird

octavia sp Spencer's like, yeah, I'll probably die in six years. I'm like, you will? You seem fine. That's horrible. What, are you going to die in your mid-50s? It's also bizarre because you're like, that is a battle-worn mouse at the end of this movie.

He sounds like Chris Rock now. He's flecked with gray. He's got some city miles on him. He's aged way more than she has. Octavia Spencer looks great. She hasn't missed with gray. He's got some city miles on him. He's aged way more than she has. Octavia Spencer looks great. She hasn't missed a beat. She looks fine. She looks so good. Oh my god. But all that Chris Rock stuff is just

they borrowed it from Holly. You know, Holly from Fargo, right? He was like, this actually doesn't work in season four. Why is Chris Rock in this movie? What was that decision? He's also in a new Saw movie coming up, right? Spiral from the Book of Saw? Yeah. It's from the Book of Saw, let's be honest.

Okay, the film is from the Book of Saw. Also by Roald Dahl. Chris Rock went to... No, David, we're both rushing to get to our bits. You make yours and I'll make mine. I just wanted to say, I mean, I guess it's sort of like one of those things people don't talk about, but it is.

It's sort of public knowledge. Roald Dahl was the jigsaw killer. We know that, right? Okay. That peach that everyone's trapped in. Yeah. But he only went after Jews. That was, that was slightly modified.

That's where they modified it. I'll tell you what Jew he went after. This Jew. He had my affection. I loved his book so much And I remember not liking The 90 movie Because it didn't fit

What was in my head But then I went back And rewatched it Because of the new one And I was like Oh that movie's kind of Weirdly great Yeah

I like that movie I watched it when I was a kid And it absolutely horrified me Which I think is normal Like I think a lot of kids Were scarred by that movie Right Their parents would rent it being like,

oh, they like the book. And they'd put it on and go make dinner, and you would just never be the same again. But that's what I feel like I liked about Roald Dahl books, and I imagine that's the same for you guys. We're both weird, sensy boys. And those books

touch real nerves of childhood fears with a kind of startling clarity and, you know, a dark humor. And I enjoy most Roald Dahl adaptations. It's like one of those things where I'm just sort of a sucker, I think, to some degree for even a bad Roald Dahl adaptation. Like, even though this movie is not good, there are times where it was sort of humming for me just because it's, you know, it's like dollar pizza or whatever. It's still a watered

down version of a thing I inherently like a lot. What I was going to say, Richard, and I'm sorry, and this is something I have to say, just, I'm sorry to drag the podcast down to a serious note for a moment, but I just want you to show a little bit of respect. Because you were being kind of flippant earlier, and I just think you should know that when Chris Rock came to Lionsgate and described in chilling detail

his fantastic vision that reimagines and spins off the world of the notorious jigsaw killer they were all in. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I've been having a lot of wrestling with like auteurship recently. So I guess that's probably why I wasn't as reverent to that. Sure. Well, I'll clear this up for you.

I'll clear this up for you, Richard. Chris conceived this idea and it will be completely reverential to the legacy of the material while reinvigorating the brand with his wit, creative vision and passion for this classic horror franchise. No, I'm hearing that Mank actually wrote the book of Saw. I'm sorry. So I think someone's... I've got to write a 50,000-word essay on this.

That Deadline story is almost two years old now, and it has stuck in my head. I pulled it up. I didn't know it verbatim, but I pretty much knew it. There's something about the description. When Chris Rock came to us and described in chilling detail. Unsolicited. He just showed up to the offices.

He wheeled his own whiteboard in. And they were like, Chris Rock, it's nice to see. Wait, what is that? But he had the long microphone cord. Like in his stand-up. I just imagined four o'clock in the morning, Lionsgate Motion Picture Group Chairman Joe Drake wakes up, startles awake, deep breaths, cold sweat, turns on the light. His wife shakes, comes to, goes, Joe, Joe, honey, what is it?

And he goes, I'm sorry, Nancy, I just. Chris Rock came to us today and described in chilling detail his fantastic vision that reimagines and spins off the world of the notorious jigsaw killer. I'm all in at this point. We just all went silent. Yeah, I want to see how long it would last. And I'm David. There we go. It's weird that this movie

is kind of quietly groundbreaking and that it was the first kind of damn break movie between Warner Brothers and HBO Max, right? Yes. I'm trying to think, had anything gone to a streaming service earlier? I'm trying to remember the timeline now of like what movies. Well, I mean specifically with the HBO Max thing,

but Artemis Fowl, Artemis Fowl, Artemis Most Fowl. Of course, Artemis Fowl, yes. Mulan was before this, right? Mulan was right before this, I think, but that was once again sort of a premium VOD thing. There was a lot of that happening. Oh, right, yeah, right. Sort of high-end rental or purchase uh

artemis fowl goes straight to disney plus um and then there's stuff obviously like uh whatchamacallit palm springs but that's more a case of just like oh it's independent movie and they got shifted over to a different distributor right but that was always right i was always gonna end up on hulu anyway yeah no no that's great i mean that's it's great i love 2020 it's just great especially with the hbo max thing this was like we thought oh zemeckis has one march madness this movie is supposed to come out in theaters in October. It won't line up properly, but we'll cover it. And then when the pandemic hit and it was clear it was not going to end anytime soon, we were like, okay, so what? Movie Going will probably return early 2021. End of 2020, everything will be normal again. This movie will probably come out early 2021,

and then we'll be able to cover it then. And instead, like on October 5th, they announced, hey, here's a trailer. It's going up on HBO Max in 10 days. Like it felt very sudden. And HBO Max had just debuted, right? Yes. Because I remember watching this, even the screening site,

I was like, oh, this is kind of a new experience. Like what's an HBO Max screener like? Like it was all very new. You remember because the deafening cheers around the planet that greeted the launch of hbo max had not yet died out like it was still if you opened a window just scream it was like when they called pennsylvania for biden i mean it was just i'll never forget it just horrid like people had voo-voo zealous and you're like is that pandemic appropriate but like i guess hbo max is that awesome i mean the funny thing is hbo max is pretty good yeah like as a

as a library and they have let them all talk which i love and they have their their library is great and i think their interface is decent, but they certainly had a launch worthy of the Challenger. I'll say this, perhaps my favorite feature of HBO Max is I love the little clicking sounds it makes when you select things. Solid clicks. Nice little clicks. I find the

color palette pleasing, and I do like that they have sort of little curated sections. I mean, people, I feel like, don't talk enough about how good the TCM section is. Yeah, it's really good. It's very solid. You know, it's not quite

as good as Filmstruck was, obviously, but, you know, they did not like, you know, half-ass it. They put some great stuff on there. I mean, we were talking about this on our podcast, Local Men. And it's an obvious point I'm sure you guys have made before. But just the idea that they were like,

Warner Brothers films have as much brand recognition as Disney films, right? I really feel like some institutionally they kind of thought that was true, maybe. Yes. And people don't, I mean, most people don't know and don't need to know. It was a silly bit of math. Right. Disney's the only studio where people, I mean, obviously, if you ask people on the street, have you heard of Warner Brothers? They have. But like, they couldn't tell you what properties they own. They would say Bugs Bunny.

Yeah, they might say Looney Tunes. Exactly. That's about the one thing where the Warner Brothers logo matches with a thing in your head. But that's sort of, I mean, the key is that Disney is the only studio that has that kind of clear brand identity because they've kept such tight restrictions on the types of things they make. Like, Warner Brothers doesn't have a clear what is a Warner Brothers movie identity

because they're a multifaceted studio that's existed for over 100 years or whatever, you know, and has made a wide array of different genre films in different decades. And Disney has a very clear sort of modus operandi, which now has shifted to them buying other brands, and those brands have their own clear identities. And so everyone knows exactly what the different

silos of a Disney movie are. I do think it's a thing I see a lot though with like, it makes sense from an AT&T perspective where these people are just like, people love Disney, right? So they must love Warner Brothers? Yeah. Yeah.

I could maybe make, I could believe an argument that said a certain generation of now young adults To people my age Which is I'm 86 I'm going to die probably in a few years Like Octavius Carribean Do you have any mouse friends?

They might associate the Warner Brothers logo With the Harry Potter movies That's the one I was about to say But even then But like even that That's a stretch I feel like if I went up to someone and was like, you know that Warner Brothers did Harry

Potter, they'd be like, oh, yeah, sure. I'd be like, no, it was Universal. They'd be like, oh, yeah, I guess so. You must be right. That's where the theme park is, at Universal Studios. Right. And there's also, like, the fact that the prelude of the Harry Potter theme always

plays over the Warner Brothers shield. Like, I feel like people, there's so much a casual sort of pairing in people's minds between the 20th century Fox drum roll and the opening of Star Wars. Sure. Because it wasn't interrupted, you know? But Warner Brothers are people, they're just already in Harry Potter land at that point. Look, this is all just a great plug for our Talking Fanfare episode available on Patreon now. Yes, of course.

We spend a good half hour talking about Warner Brothers variants, and it's just a great old time. So you should listen to that. I listened to it. I didn't even have visual cues. I was like walking, and I was like, I don't know what I'm talking about, but sure. I haven't seen you guys in a long time it was nice it's been a while we haven't experienced trolls in in many months now um my point was just that this film got announced being punted to streaming and everyone was like yeah I mean that makes sense right I mean come on there wasn't a ton of excitement for that thing

it doesn't seem like it was going to be a huge hit anyway. All movies are getting pushed back. Warner Brothers is going to have a backlog. Why not just put it on there for Halloween? Give like some mid-level studio film straight to streaming to boost subscribers. We could not have known where things were trending. And I feel like just the last 10 days before we recorded this,

the entire industry has broken in half. And this episode won't come out for another month. And I have no idea what things are going to look like in a month. I will say, I can't think of an example. Like, every movie that went to streaming, Mulan was the closest. And Soul, I guess, sort of. And Wonder Woman.

Those were the ones where it changed. But before then, it was like, if a movie got shunted to streaming, you were like, ah, it must be kind of bad. And then when you saw it, you're like, yeah, the ones where it changed. But before then, it was like, if a movie got shunted to streaming, you were like, ah, it must be kind of bad. And then when you saw it, you're like, yeah,

it's kind of bad. Mulan was the one where it was like, oh, but that looked good. And then you watch it, and you're like, oh, it's kind of bad.

Right. Yeah. So, I assume that I've seen Soul, and Soul is good. Really? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It's cute. I like Soul. I don't know if, I'd like to know what you think of it, Griff. There are things I didn't like about it, but there, you know, I. Yeah. It's cute. I like Soul. I don't know if... I'd like to know what you think of it, Griff. There are things I didn't like about it. But, you know, I liked Soul. It's a movie.

That's a proper movie that was made with thought. I mean, this episode's coming out in January, so I probably will have seen it 27 times by then. Yeah. And Wonder Woman, you know, I don't know. Like, whatever. You know, Buzz is pretty solid on that. But before then, it was like, yeah, if I don't know. Like, whatever. You know, Buzz is pretty solid on that.

But before then, it was like, yeah, if they're putting it on streaming, they just kind of know it's lame. So whatever. Right. And now all movies have become the Costco hot dog. It's the loss leader to just get people in the store. And then they'll be in the store, I guess. Right. I love the Costco hot dog. And I love. Right. I love the Costco hot dog and I love the movies.

My fear is that at some point they're going to go, why are we spending money on these fucking hot dogs? I'm not small. It's the pictures that became hot dogs.

Yeah. I mean, that's the issue. Nora Desmond would never survive in a hot dog culture. I would love to see Nora Desmond just rip HBO Max a new one. Like, Denis Villeneuve going for it.

Fine. That's great. But, you know, come on. Come on, Nora. Norma. Jeez. Can you just imagine, like, the AT&T assholes watching this movie and going, like, I don't get it. Why isn't it eight one-hour installments?

Like, to them, this just must seem like, why did we ever make this? The only value this would have is in several 22 minute installments or whatever right um you know i said denis villeneuve i know his name is villeneuve because there was the formula one racer jacques villeneuve i don't know why i always say his name wrong anyway so just wanted to get that out in the open um hey richard hey griffin how you doing? This movie was written by Robert Zemeckis, Kenya Barris, and Guillermo del Toro The three best friends We're hashtag the two friends, they're hashtag the three best friends They're closer than you guys are

Yeah, so much closer This film was produced by Alfonso Cuaron I guess I can tell you why, I guess we might as well do some context I assume you know this, Griffin But this was initially planned as a stop-motion film that was going to be directed by Guillermo del Toro and produced by Alfonso Cuaron. And then I guess it got put down and never picked up again

until Zemeckis picked, I guess, some remnant of that project up because del Toro and Cuaron's name are on it. When did he, when did Zemeckis come and become involved? Because I'm just curious about like how much of a longterm passion project this was for him. If it was just like something to do. No, like the,

the, the, the del Toro plans were in 2008, which was back when he had like 40 movies spinning, right? Like post Penn's labyrinth. Do you ever read that New Yorker article about that? About him?

It's so good. It's fascinating because every project he mentions never came to fruition, pretty much. And the Zemeckis was announced that he was going to write and direct in 2018. So, you know, he just, whatever. And much

like all the Zemeckis projects, Griff, we've covered recently, it's like right before his movie is about to come out, so this is before Marwen is coming, it's like, anyway, Zemeckis project script we've covered recently, it's like right before his movie is about to come out. So this is before Marwyn is coming. It's like, anyways, Zemeckis has set up his next thing. It's this thing you've heard of and he's going to work on it and it's going to

have a star and blah, blah, blah. Right. He's just announcing this. Right. It's going right away. He's launching straight into the next one.

I feel like around that same time was the story that Warner Brothers wanted him to direct Flash. And he was like, yes, fuck no. Get that out of my face. He said that about Ezra Miller. Yeah. Get that out of my face. But but he it did seem like perhaps Warner Brothers was actively courting him, you know, that they wanted him to make something for them. And so maybe after he passed on flash they were like here are properties we have that have just sat on a shelf for 10 years right you had do you have any interest right because marwin is universal allied is paramount the walk was sony flight was um paramount as well you know like he had kind of been dancing around christmas carol

is disney right beowulf is warner brothers and paramount together maybe like yeah paramount domestic warner brothers international he's you know he has no loyalty to any particular you know uh shop he's just sort of moving around getting stuff going bounce you know not not making total bombs but not also making hits. He's just, he's Robert Zemeckis. But I feel like Disney and Warners have in particular been courting him for the better part of the last decade. I mean, Disney pushed him away, you know, through an old regime with the stop motion, the motion capture stuff. But I feel like they've been trying to lure him back into the fold because they are the, you know, the big budget miracle weaver people. So there's an obvious fit there. And Warner Brothers, I think just up until, you know, two weeks ago was viewed as the most

filmmaker friendly of the major studios. It made sense that they saw value in sort of a blue-chip, you know, big-budget filmmaker like that. But yeah, it's kind of weird that this movie was greenlit. It's one of these things where now, isn't it bizarre how just nine months of the pandemic, the growing sort of just acceptance that most things are going to end up being made for or ultimately going to streaming has changed the way we perceive most movies. Where I just watch this now and I'm like, I can't believe they ever thought this was a thing they were going to put in theaters and people were going to see. But then I also think if this had come out a year ago, I guess it would have made like $50 million. Yes, it would have made money. Because it would have been a thing in theaters.

It's rated PG, like almost surprisingly. In tone, it is a PG, but it is on the edge there. And, you know, people would have taken their kids, right? And been like yeah sure with Roald Dahl I've heard of that everything is just rendered a little flimsier you know and I know it's like a trite thing to say but because like we have to get used to it I'm just not fully I mean certain things it's you know it depends on the movie but this one is just like it just loses I hate to use this overused term, it just loses all of its clout

being just, you know, at home whenever you want to watch it, you know? And that's kind of all this movie has going for it, right? I mean, you watch it and you're just like, this thing does have high production value. You're watching someone who does understand the craft of filmmaking, hiring like top, below the line people, you know, with money applied to the right places.

And, you know, a cast of very capable actors, at least three leads who are very game. But then you watch this at home and it just all of that is like sucked out by the fact the movie in and of itself does not have a ton of interest but uh you know the joy you'd get from it would just be watching i guess i don't know these sets on a big screen uh yeah also you gotta remember that this film um uh banded collaborated with uh roblox the uh the ipad game is that true to uh to include a boss battle which the grand high witch so that that that was also a big thing that big innovation depressing for this for this movie it's all just a little depressing and uh you know i know that in griffin and i's uh dynamic he's the more more of the

doomsayer and i'm more of the well things will be all right and we did just sit the thing is the disney thing i just i didn't even watch it but i sat through the the waves of be all right and we did just sit the thing is the disney thing i just i didn't even watch it but i sat through the the waves of it you know and i was texting you all the stories texting me and like the thing i was having this experience where they're like and we're proud to announce that yes you're you're with the wait is over and finally it's going to happen we're going back to atlantis the lost empire atlantis you know like we're just everything you're just like uh-huh it's a sequel or a remake or okay and but then they're like but it's in theaters and i'm like well it's it's good that they're putting things in theaters like i i

have to have the kind of the the low bar like okay well that's that's something i guess that'll be good can i ask you guys a question about the Disney presentation? Because I didn't see it. Is the Buzz Lightyear movie going to be about the toy? Great question. Jesus, you really fucked up here asking a question like that. You really showed your ass. Whoa. It was an honest question.

I just don't know. I just really don't know. Okay, Richard. Listen. How do I even put this? The toy Buzz Lightyear. Fun toy story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand. No, we understand. We understand, Richard, listen. How do I even put this? The toy Buzz Lightyear fun toy story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I understand. No, we understand. We understand, Richard. I don't even have the words. Look, let me just put it this way, okay? I guess you don't know about our nation's history. Griffin just took off his wig and shoes. This isn't Buzz Lightyear the toy.

This is the origin story of the human Buzz Lightyear, the toy. This is the origin story of the human Buzz Lightyear that the toy is based on. Richard, get that through your head. I am. It's like I just discovered witches are real. I'm so blown away. Can we unpack that, though?

What the hell is that? In the world of Andy, the child from Toy Story, there are actual adventuring spacemen. Oh, there he is. I can't assume so. What if, like, it turns out Toy Story is set in, like,

2022, you know, or 2222, you know, it's like all been happening in the far future and andy lives in some fucking andy's been on the holodeck the whole time right buzz lightyear from star command obviously like because it's not like there's a neil armstrong from star command toy that's not thing. We didn't license the actual human and then put him in a sci-fi universe branding thing. Go ahead.

Can we unpack this for a second? Richard asked. I promise I won't stay on this for too long. Sure. I had a friend with an inside scoop text me, get ready, there's one thing during the Disney Investor Day that's gonna break your brain this

was chris evans texting you it was chris evans and he said i have no words just to be clear one thing during this investor day will break your brain no but my friend said like i don't know if you're gonna be very happy or very angry and i immediately said it has to be some weird pixar thing right it has to be some weird Pixar thing, right? It has to be some weird Pixar thing. But my brain was sort of like processing it. And I was like, I don't think it would just be them doing another sequel to something. It has to be some odd approach they're taking. Is there going to be some weird TV show version of something?

What am I not considering here? And then it came up on the screen. And the reason I hadn't considered it is because they've done this already. Oh, because you mean, are you referring to the cartoon show? Buzz Lightyear's Star Command was a Saturday morning cartoon show after the release of Toy Story 2 that purported to be, this is the cartoon show that Andy watches. The toy that Andy owns is a piece of tie-in merchandise to this cartoon show. It was an enjoyable cartoon show. Pixar had no involvement.

It was very much in the days of Disney being like, yunk, thank you for making that movie. We'll do with this what would please. It was two-dimensional. But it did not really address the fact that we all knew, because we all went to school, that Buzz Lightyear was a real person who also had space adventures.

Well, this is what I cannot figure out. The way they said it in the Disney press conference just made it sound like, I mean, Pete Docter was saying, like, when we created Toy Story, we established that Buzz Lightyear was a character in that universe that the toy was based off of. That's not true, though, right? They're saying, what he's saying is internally.

Uh-huh. Oh, sure. They always had that. You don't know. It lived in Canada. You've never met this idea that we've always secretly had. David, we do know that because the opening of Toy Story 2 is the video game where you see that obviously Buzz Lightyear exists in other mediums and the opening of Toy Story

1 that was deleted was supposed to be a similar opening with Andy watching the cartoon show. No, I have no problem with him being, of course he's a toy that's based on, I can understand that, but they are now saying he's a real person. This is my point. Let me say this, David. Okay, okay.

So my point is, Pete Docter said it in a way that sounds like what we're saying on the stream. He was like, when we created the world toy story, we all always believed that buzz light year was a character that existed, that the toy is based off of. It felt like he was framing it as this is like the movie that Andy would see. And then Chris Evans comes out with this tweet where he's like, the real guy. And I can't tell if that's just weird wording choice because they're trying to make it clear like, no, no, no, we're not being rude to Tim Allen. It's a different character. Right. Or if this movie is going to be like a first man. if this movie is going to be like a first man.

Or if Chris Evans has broken with reality and really does not know. Like Kristen Chenoweth does not know what a movie is. Because I'll be honest, I don't want to see a hyper-realistic Buzz Lightyear movie. I'm down to see them do some wacky fucking sci-fi movie that is sort of straight-faced and earnest and the idea is that it's like, this is the thing that Andy likes. But I don't, I don't want to see anything gritty, which I don't,

I can't imagine that's what they're doing. And implying that this is like a real American hero, rather than some sort of like, you know, square jaw, uh, you know, matinee serial icon is, uh, the question for me. It is the question. It's a question that, of course, will be answered on June 17th, 2022, when Lightyear hits theaters. Who's directing Lightyear?

You told me. Angus MacLean, who's the guy within the Pixar house who I've most been waiting to see direct a film. He did Toy Story of Terror and Small Fry, and he did Bernie, which is a very good short, and I think he's a good director. I'm excited he gets to direct a film. He did Toy Story of Terror and Small Fry, and he did Bernie, which is a very good short, and I think he's a good director. I'm excited he gets to make a movie. Beyond that, I don't even know what to think of this or what to think of

anything anymore. What were you going to say, Richard? Oh, I was just going to say that we're going to find out that Infinity was the name of his sled as a child. Yeah. Oh, boy. That's how he went to Infinity. Manc. And beyond. And now I changed my background to Lightyear as well.

Yeah, Manc. Oh, there. Now it's both. So it's two Buzz Lightyears and then my extra room in my apartment. So I don't have the background capabilities. That's all right. I'll switch back to the stupid witches. There he is, of course, the Grand High Witch.

You know, when this airs, when this podcast goes out, we will have seen maybe the Matthew Morrison Grinch. And so this could be playing to just like no one. I mean, we could all be gone. Didn't it air last night? Am I wrong? Oh, did it? I think it aired last night and no one watched it. Oh, dear.

I feel like I saw that headline today that was like, The Grinch watched by literally zero people. If I said that Matthew Morrison is The Grinch looks like Joanna Kearns from Growing Pains, would you know what I meant? Absolutely. Can I say also, when the story hit that Matthew Morrison was going to do a live TV version of The Grinch, I read the headline very quickly as Matthew McConaughey to play The Grinch, I read the headline very quickly as Matthew McConaughey to play The Grinch, and I got so

amped. The idea of Matthew McConaughey doing a live TV musical Grinch. That's a curveball. That's fun. Exactly. Matthew McConaughey's Grinch telling Cindy Lou Who that the left has gone too far. Right. Your background is from future blank check

subject, Oz the Great and Powerful, right? Yeah, of course. My background is from future blank check subject, Oz the Great and Powerful, right? Yeah, of course. My background is the witches. I only stand two witches in this house, and it's Mila Kunis and Michelle Williams. I forgot that movie existed. Wasn't Rachel Weisz a witch in that one as well? You don't acknowledge her? She's the third witch. She doesn't really do that much in the movie. Cool. Sounds like a cool movie. Can't wait to talk about it. Also, I couldn't find a good picture of all three of them have you not seen it david i've never seen oz the great and powerful no because of a binding legal uh arrangement i don't know what the joke is there

um the witches here's the thing about the witches uh roald dahl's book The Witches is pretty weird it's about a little boy as you say who encounters these witches who are real who are bald who have chicken hands who have square toeless feet who smell think children smell disgusting and want to turn them into

mice and you have to recognize them by the fact that they like wear lots of jewelry and gloves and fancy shoes you know like and even as a kid when i read it i was like this book's kind of like fucked up about women seems kind of mad at women like what what is what is that and what's it what's his problem with these women? Are they Jews or something? And that's just, you know, that's just something that every and as you say, I feel like Rogue is like, yeah, right. This is about like the evil that lurks within Little England.

Like, right. You know, these are Nazis. These are terrible. Right. You know, like, I get that. I get that i get that in this one i guess they're so the the movie the choice that this movie makes that we talked about but that is hard to dig into because the movie doesn't really want to dig into it is that it's set in alabama yes in the 50s or the 60s? 1960s. Yes. In like 68.

It's made the lead, you know, the story is set in Britain. It's made the lead character black. It's made the grandma black. And that's kind of all it has decided to do with that. There is one line where the grandmother books the hotel. And she's like, well, you know, I know the cook at the hotel and we got a room there. And he's like,

why would we go there? And she's like, because it's full of rich white people and the witches only prey upon children who are poor or otherwise

kind of forgotten about. No one will miss them if they're gone. So there is a statement of political intent I would have to imagine, you know, that was like carefully

talked about in the writing of the movie. But then nothing is done with that no the rest of the movie it also is bizarre when the first witch our character encounters in the movie is also black i was right this is the other thing i was like oh is there like something where right you know there's the witches are these kind of like nice genteel like something where right you know there's the witches are these kind of like nice genteel white ladies who are you know but like no the the the witches themselves in the movies are you know there's there are all kinds of people of color and like you know there's there's nothing going on there then that's not that that again if they wanted to go there they they didn't they there's a little of the like more female guards at Guantanamo kind of thing there where it's like, it's like, what is the representation doing?

And and and I just I think that like, I don't know, it's it's tricky because the movie isn't really making any political points, but it kind of sets up maybe that it will and then it doesn't. But you're right. The movie isn't really making any political points, but it kind of sets up maybe that it will and then it doesn't. But you're right. It's like the I mean, it's it's. It's one of those cases where you're like the movie is more effective of all the witches are white to a certain degree, because then there's a statement of intent, you know, about race relations in the 60s. Right. It would be a very clanging statement. It's not like it would be, but like, right, then it would at least be something. It's funny.

The screenplay is credited to Robert Zemeckis, Ampersand, Kenya Barris, and Guillermo del Toro. So I think del Toro's influence is barely, right? Like that's just whatever lingered from the original script. It's Zemeckis, and he brings in Kenya Barrisris and he's like i assume they're the ones like let's transpose this to alabama let's have the lead character be black but but do you have that confirmed that he brought kenya barris in because that was my question was obviously there's the lingering coran del toro of the whole thing warner still has the rights my question was does at some point

kenya barris get hired on to take a pass at the witches and that's what gets a mecca on board or does the mecca sign up just for the idea of do you want to make a witch's movie and then kenya barris is hired i all i know is that they are credited as working on it together and uh when the film was announced uh it was very much announced as kenya barris is on board to co-write the script with zemeckis so it wasn't announced as like zemeckis is making a movie of this kenya barris script and then zemeckis's name gets added later like you know so so yeah so, like, either they wrote a thing and then eventually it just sort of got watered down

and here's the result. Or, I don't know, maybe they thought that that was kind of interesting enough just to sort of change the setting and it just wasn't interesting enough because the themes of the witches are interesting, but the plot of the witches, like you guys said, is pretty simple. So if you're going to mess with it, you would need to mess with it.

And they don't. It's also fascinating. I mean, I remember when we were talking about even the idea of doing Zemeckis like a year or two ago when they announced this movie, Pre-March Madness. We were like, he's doing the witches now and it's like voodoo inspired. And you and I turned to each other and we were like, what's he doing there? And then you watch it and you're like, he's not really doing anything. There are these little

glimpses of like, that's almost a take. He almost wants to turn it into a civil rights movie. He almost wants to turn it into more of a class thing. He almost wants to turn it into this or that. And you'll just get like the vestiges of one scene where sort of lip service

is paid to something. Which makes me wonder, and maybe you guys have more insight into this than I do, probably you do, is why then does Zemeckis want to do this? Because the social message gets muddled and not really addressed. Special effects wise,

which seems to have been his like major preoccupation of the last 20 years, sure, there's some stuff with Hathaway and the mice, but that's pretty pedestrian stuff at this point. So it feels confusing about why he's there at all. I agree. It's not like anything else in his filmography, really. And it's not like he gets to push any sort of technological boundaries. It doesn't feel like he's breaking any new ground here. And even though Pinocchio is a little bit lateral to this, you're like, well, I get thematically what Zemeckis likes about Pinocchio. Maybe it's one of those things where you just, someone just gets a one image

fixated in their head and like, I have to see that too. Fruition or something? Like the arms extending down the air shaft or something. I don't know. But like, there's just so little that feels, even in this late stage of his weird career, that feels signaturely his, you know?

But I also feel like to some degree, he's a guy who wants to keep making movies, and to some degree, it feels like they send him a pile of scripts, he's still got enough juice, and maybe that's about to run out

to, if he signs on to something, they go, sure, here's between $30 and $60 or $80 million to make your thing, and he'll just pick the thing that maybe seems the most doable at that moment like it's it's odd you know we've talked about how the the tim burton selection process feels kind of so dispassionate at this point it really just feels like what's the most recent thing that was sent to me? And then you have someone like Spielberg who runs a different calculus for each project, it seems like, but is very aware of, I get to make one Spielberg movie a year and I'm going

to make it count. And what's a Spielberg movie going to be? What's a thing I haven't done before? People I haven't worked with before? Whatever it is. And then the Zemeckis stuff is odd. I mean, all the post-mocap choices are weird. I don't disagree. I'm just noticing also that the Matthew Morrison

Grinch looks a little bit like Kate Mulgrew. Is that correct? Yeah, sure. Oh my god. This is the thing I find interesting. I would say, other than Pinocchio, obviously, Flight, The Walk, Allied, Marwyn, Witches, the thing that unifies them all is

they probably were never going to get greenlit unless Robert Zemeckis signed on to do them. Right. By and large, yes. The Witch witches may be the closest but yes exactly like we talk about the the burden process is perplexing only because you look at those movies and you're like dude anyone could make those like let a fucking special effects supervisor direct these movies but the zemeckis movies are like odder projects that are a little less obvious, but they're getting to see the light of day solely through the sheer will of Zemeckis anointing it. Okay, so now that you guys are at the end of the series, what has been the most recent film that earned him that? Do you know what I mean? Like, why does he still keep getting the blank checks? I mean, this is the thing.

Or blank-ish checks. It's literally Polar Express, I would say, is the last movie he made that surpassed expectations. That's the last one that didn't lose money, right? I mean, well,

Flight made money, but that's the last one that was a real hit. And that was a while ago now, wasn't it? That was like over 10 years ago? It was 16 years ago. Yeah, but I mean, if you think about the fact that it lives on in your mind, and, you know, I was on that flight. I't it that was like over 10 years ago was 16 years ago yeah but i mean if

you think about the fact that it lives on in your mind and you know i was on that bell's ring for us but but to answer your question richard i don't even think i i think you know disney was making the christmas carol movie because they were like oh what if he gave us another polar express i think polar express isn't in anyone's minds anymore, despite the fact that that movie somehow illogically continues to make money year after year, seems to be an infinitely profitable movie for Warner Brothers. I don't think anyone hires him with the expectation that he's going to do that again, especially since the mocap thing has sort of been so roundly rejected overall. You know, maybe that's why he's going more into children's films now, because that was

his last blockbuster. But it does just feel to some degree that it's Back to the Future, Roger Rabbit, and Forrest Gump. It's like those three movies have given him a lifetime pass that, short of the theatrical exhibition business going under, made it difficult for him to ever stop having green light power. And there's probably, I would imagine, some loyalty given that he, you know, he came a little bit later, but like, you know, that he and Spielberg and a couple other people were really like invented the economy of Hollywood for so many years, like, or helped to do it,

you know? Absolutely. They're always going to be huge actors who want to work with him. He's always going to be able to get some sort of A-list movie star. And I think another factor is you have the executives, you know, maybe not the people at the very top of the studios, but the people who are at the levels

just below that are now the kids of Zemeckis. They're people who grew up with Zemeckis and I think they go, oh my God, Robert Zemeckis wants to make a movie? I'm the junior whatever at whatever fucking studios, and I'm 40 years old, and those movies were my childhood, you know? It's like why, I mean, it's why we have such a particular brand of nostalgia online. It's because, well, it's all the people in their mid-30s who run the internet now.

Right. And that's their culture. So yeah, it really is a generational thing. I think you're right. That's the exact shift. Right. The internet is run by children of the 90s and is now starting to slip into being children of the early 2000s, right? Not if I can help it. Hey, hey now. But the studios are still pretty much, the high level decision making is being done by children of the 80s.

And so these 80s guys, even if some of them seem like dinosaurs now, still hold a lot of sway with the people who ultimately have the rubber stamps. But I wonder, like, does The Witches feel like in any way that that's going to slow that moment? I mean, time itself will slow it for him. But I don't think The Witches feels like

a little bit value neutral, right? It doesn't feel like it was great for him. It feels absolutely value neutral. Especially because it came out on HBO Max. I think even if he had come out in theaters, it would have performed like a lot of these Zemeckis movies where it's like, oh, that's sort of disappointed, but I guess wasn't a total bomb.

Like, I think that probably would have been the story of the witches instead. Even, you know, it's on HBO Max. It's like, whatever. Pinocchio's going to be on Disney+. Again, whatever. Well, and I'm sorry to keep digressing, but which leads me to another question that I've been meaning to ask you guys

is, I know in certain cases it was really just, and going forward, it's going to be more of that where it's like, there just aren't theaters open, we have to put things on streaming, is how many movies do you think are going to, or have gone on streaming, or are going to that in some ways are strategic

choices to hide potential failure, you know what I mean? You can kind of launder the movie and be like, well, we don't have to report on any box office. So like Mulan did really well, you know, or whatever. It's weird, Richard. I feel like now we're experiencing the flip. listening to it will be old news feels like a switch flip where it went from being oh if a movie was probably going to underperform in theaters we can punt it to streaming and write it off as a

success based on whatever metric we've just created and now it feels like it's shifting to we put our biggest movies on streaming as like a loss leader to boost to get people streaming right right and to some degree the stuff that's middling is like you give that a new mutants release you know people are going to start getting vaccinated you put it in 500 theaters it makes 10 million dollars no one talks about it you know it's like it's somehow if you want a movie to quietly die you put it in theaters if you want it to actually be in a pole position, you put it on your streaming service. New Mutants, which I

traveled to another state and stayed in a hotel to see. Before Labor Day, or after Labor Day, I don't remember. But I was really going to Boston to see Tenet, but I also saw New Mutants at a very completely empty AMC in downtown Boston.

Did you like it? New Mutants is very bad completely empty AMC in downtown Boston. Did you like it? New Mutants is very bad. No, no, no, no. It's too bad. But the Mutants, they're so new. They're very new. We can also talk, by the way, because this will be out later, is I just watched some screeners, speaking of Josh Boone, of The Stand, the CBS All Access.

It is a turkey. It is very bad. That guy's got a weird career. I'm not surprised. It's not like that thing had, like, you know, big buzz. But I'd love someone to do The Stand right someday. It's certainly not an easy one to do. Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, it's like, to some degree, talking about this movie at the moment we're talking about it just becomes an excuse to talk about the state of what movies even are these days. Right. Because out recently is that they offered at least Hathaway and Zemeckis a big buyout to put this up on streaming, right? Like, people this A-list have big back-end deals based on theatrical release. And also, they contractually don't want to be seen as being in a movie or having made a movie that's getting punted straight to video. So it's like contractually you have to put the movie in theaters. So they wanted to put this on streaming. It's clear theaters were not going to be healthy anytime soon. They paid Zemeckis and Hathaway a lot of money. I would imagine they probably paid

Octavia Spencer as well. Chris Rock probably got $15 million. And then Wonder Woman got a similar deal. Sounds like even more lucrative. Big deal. $10 million to each

of Jenkins and Godot. But, I mean, Zemeckis and Hathaway got millions of dollars. They got more than what this movie's value probably was. Right. And then a big part of the new announcement for all the 2021 movies is that that's not happening.

Or if it is happening, it was not negotiated. It was not told to any of these people. And, you know, they have this weird strategy now where it's the movies are going on HBO Max and in theaters on the same day. Then it will play on HBO Max for 30 days. Then they take it off HBO Max. And then they put it on like premium rental and whatever. And it's maybe still lingering in theaters depending on if it's been a hit. Right. And then it will eventually come back to HBO Max like a year later. And someone who understands the industry better than I do, you know, off the record said to me that their theory

on why they're structuring it this way is if they do that, if you send it just straight to streaming, you have to offer these people who made a movie under the understanding that it was going to go theatrical, a buyout, right? You have to offer them compensation for not leaving them the potential to make profits. Exactly. You have to buy out their profit participation. And if you do it this way, you can be like, what do you mean? The movie's in theaters. But the thing that they didn't think was that it was ridiculous not to tell these people that they were going to do this without. But even crazier than that to then say, like, look, I mean, I'm sorry we put it up on iTunes.

It's only made $15 in rentals. There's no money to share. And it's like $50 in rentals because it was on HBO Max for a month. Why would anyone rent it? Warner Brothers was run by people who got scammed in public. We reported crazy blackmail things. It's now run by a telephone company that every article you write about it was like essentially like, you know, someone was like, well, here's what we should do. And the other guy was like, yeah, but what about Netflix?

That thing's got so much fucking shit on it. We need to go now. Like, you know, like they were just sort of like ah netflix so i just don't think any of these decisions are being made with like expert strategy it's just panic and what can we get away with to what extent right like that seems to be what's happening now and again that's not what happened with the witches the witches they were more like oh this is a good situation to put this on. We'll, we'll, we'll,

we'll pay everyone out. Yeah. It's all short term and it's all just like they're only two numbers they care about seeing go up, which are

their subscriber growth and their share price. And those two things are like intrinsically linked to them. And AT&T sees a symbiotic relationship between, oh, people are paying for AT&T internet

and they're watching HBO Max and we give them one for free for getting the other one or whatever it is. But we're controlling the pipe and we're controlling the water that runs through the pipe or whatever. But it's not very big picture thinking. And they're probably gonna 18, 18 months from now,

go like, why are we making movies and TV shows? This is stupid. We could just make cell phones for the rest of our life. There probably was some shrewd calculus, though,

in that, like, if they'll come for Anne Hathaway, they'll stay for Anna Kendrick. True. Do you know what I mean? Now, this leads me to my next question, guys. Because, again,

we're not talking about the plot of The Witches. Look, he turns into a mouse. There's witches. You know, they kind of sneak like in this one. That covers it, right? Yeah. Anne Hathaway. Post-Oscar.

One of the most covered actors on this show. We talked about her plenty. She's worked with more blank check filmmakers than she hasn't, I think. Right, because we've done Brokeback Mountain, Devil Wears Prada, Rachel Getting Married, Alice in Wonderland, Dark Knight Rises,

Interstellar. The Intern. And The Intern. And your next season is a 10-episode series about Ella Enchanted. That's right. It's called Dave Griffin Enchanted. Correct. That's right. It's called Dave Griffin Chanted. Dance in the Dancy. But yes, the last five years of her career have essentially been disastrous.

Right. This is the thing. So it's gone from, oh, to what's going on. So she wins the Oscar for Les Mis. That's a 2012 film. At that point, there's that sort of backlash. We've discussed it. A lot of it unfair.

But that's the... And she hosts the... Anyway, okay. She takes a little bit of a break. And then in 2014, she does Interstellar, which I think is one of her better performances. Working with a big director. Makes sense. And then 2015, she does The Intern, you know, working with a big director. Makes sense.

And then 2015, she does The Intern, which again, we've talked about. Working with a major female director. Pretty solid hit, right? Yeah, and a masterpiece. A modern American masterpiece. Good movie. She's good in it. You know, that movie has its thing.

But yeah, right? Richard, I don't know where you are on The Intern, Richard. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I like The Intern. I've told on this podcast the story of Bobby Finger meeting Nancy Meyers at the intern premiere party. No, that was good for Anne Hathaway, without a doubt. Yes.

Even though people were going for De Niro, but she was, you know. But then this is the turning point. Right. So, so far, post-Oscar, you're like, okay, she's picking projects. All right. So, 2016, she has Alice through the looking glass. She's barely in that, but she is, I suppose,

obligated to be in that. We can't really hold that against her. She's like above the title. I mean, you know, she's second build. Like, the movie is being sold partially on her shoulders, even if it's not her fault. Right. But whatever. She's also in Colossal, which is not a movie I loved,

but I thought it was pretty good. I really liked that movie. I liked that movie. Some people really loved it. Yes. I think she's very good in it. Yes. Fun choice.

She's good in it. Like, you know, interesting little movie. So even then you're like, okay. And then two year break and then she's in Ocean's 8, which I think is a not good movie,

but she was kind of by consensus the best liked part of it, right? She has one really great scene very improbably with James Corden. Yes. I mean, which only makes the scene more impressive. Exactly.

But yeah, so she's very good in that. She's arguably the best performance in the movie Awkwafina is obviously the only person who kind of pops from that movie just because she was

having such a moment and it was like the groundswell of several things happening at the same time I don't know the woman who played the computer hacker

I'd be interested to see what her career is going to be like you know like maybe music or something yeah I think she's good

in that movie yeah no I mean I like her better in Battleship she's great in Battleship Battleship's like a real character though I mean it's not in that movie. Yeah. No, I mean, I like her better in Battleship. She's great in Battleship. Battleship's like a real character, though. I mean, it's not... Mahalo, motherfucker. It's, you know...

So, 2019. She has three films. One of them is Dark Waters, which is one of the best movies of that year. Her role in it is what it is. But, you know... She did it to work with Todd Haynes. And also, clearly, being in that movie makes you tax exempt

or something. There had to be some... Well, it gets the movie made for one thing. It helps get the movie made. And so it was like a noble act. Yeah. That's a generosity of her extending her movie stardom to a worthy cause to work with good people on a good subject. That's a great movie.

She was paying Mark Ruffalo back for all the fracking she'd done. But we all agree that it's a thankless role performed to the best of her ability. I think she's actually good in it.

I do too. It's not the most exciting role. Bill Camp is the star of that movie, though. Absolutely. Putters and Murmurs. Oh, God, he's so good.

She's in... And I tweeted this, but I have to say it. In The Queen's Gambit, Bill Camp plays a big part of The Queen's Gambit. And in the first... And I, but I have to say it, in the Queen's Gambit, Bill Camp plays a big part of the Queen's Gambit. And in the first, and I had no idea he was in it, and in one of the first scenes of the show,

you see him out of focus, not his head, just his body. He's a janitor, and he's mopping a floor. And I was like, that's Bill Camp. I know Bill Camp's shambling figure when I see it, and that's Bill Camp camp i can't wait for more camp that's how that's what the greatest character you recognize his gate you recognize exactly gate like you were the fucking you were the security system in mission impossible ghost protocol recognizing his posture and it's one of those things where like yeah the show's been running

for five minutes it's got kind of an air of bill camp to i'm like this is the kind of thing bill camp might be in the movie like these sort of anyway um she's in the hustle which i think is one of those movies that was made a while ago right like it was sort of a on the shelf for a second yeah we should also mention the two-year gap where she doesn't make a movie is Birth of Her First Child. Right. In between Colossal and Ocean's 8. Yeah.

Here's the thing. The Hustle, I think, technically was a hit. I think it was fairly cheap to make, and it made money. I assumed that movie was made by Delta Airlines to play on the plane. I have not seen it. I watched it on a flight.

Remember flights? Yeah. It's like, it's fun because it's a con. It's a con game. And that's a fun movie to watch, you know? And she's fine in it. No, she's better than fine in it.

She's playing the Michael King character, right? Yes. She's playing the suave kind of slickster to Rebel Wilson's wink-wink, naive Rube, who's also in the con, but

Anne Hathaway is the pro in the movie. And she, you know, kind of like her character in Ocean's 8, she can pull that kind of like her character in Ocean's 8, she can pull that kind of suave thing off even though she's so often associated with being the earnest theater kid. Now I'm just wondering,

I'm like, is Delta Airlines going to become our major movie studio? Are they going to be one of the few businesses that sees the value in making movies? I mean, they the airlines are the business that's going to keep the mid-budget movie alive.

Right. Because that's where everyone watches them. But also, their business is so fucked now, I could imagine them being like, look, we made, like, a $50 million romantic comedy.

It's playing exclusively on planes. You have to ride a plane to see it. Right. So people are just, like, flying to Nashville to like... We finally let Nancy Meyers make another movie. It's Jennifer Lawrence

and fucking Chalamet and you have to book a two-hour flight to watch. Yeah, you have to book... Don't worry, we've got flights that just take off and circle the airport for 90 minutes and then land.

Hallie Meyers-Shire bought Whiz Air. So... It'll be interesting to see what happens with that. She did. She did. To wrap up, her other 2019 film was Serenity, which I think is, whatever you think of that movie, a film that does not treat her with a lot of respect.

No, and it certainly is a movie that the world clowned on with great glee. They did. And it's wild a movie that the world clowned on with great glee. They did. And it's wild to think that that movie stars two Academy Award winning actors from that decade. It's not like it stars Oscar winners. It's not like Louise Fletcher's in it, no offense to her. Those people won Oscars in that decade. Two fresh winners.

Two fresh winners. Two people who had won Oscars in the decade. Two fresh winners. Two fresh winners. Two people who had won Oscars in the last three years. I will say, though, that like Hathaway and McConaughey both, as much as that movie is kind of like a cult fascination of how weird and bad it is and what a mess it was, they are lucky that it didn't, it had, like, they're lucky it was buried, you know, because I feel like, I feel like certain people know about that movie, but a lot of people don't. So it wasn't some huge public fiasco for them.

But Richard, do you know, there was that whole thing where it was like Avron Pictures, which has already gone under and seemed to be some weird tax scheme. And then I believe, are you going to say what I think you're going to say, David, what I was about to say? Go ahead, say what you're going to say. I want to hear you say it. No, I don't think I'm going to say what you're going to say. Say what you're going to say, David, what I was about to say? Go ahead. Say what you're going to say. I want to hear you say it. No, I don't think I'm going to say what you're going to say. Say what you're going to say.

I believe Hathaway and McConaughey's reps sued Avron Pictures for making their stars look bad by not putting enough promotional support behind the movie. I see. Okay. I believe it's the exact opposite. You're right. That should be

their takeaway. We got away clean. We escaped that one from the skin of our teeth. I believe they were like, we were promised this movie was going to be given a golden birth. You've damaged our star's images by not drawing all of the world's eyes to Serenity. But then that's dry sand affecting. Because I think that most people in America

don't know what that movie is. And if you bring attention to it with a lawsuit, it's like people didn't know this movie existed. Well, look, I just I can't discuss ongoing lawsuits that I'm a part of. That's all I want. Of course. It was the head of Averon Pictures before he transitioned to Quibi. Right. Exactly.

Really, if you actually check the files, same company. Yeah. Griffin, have you looked at the at the bank account for this podcast because for in a while because it might be a little slippery it's slippery uh i'm just looking i'm just confirming it here mcconaughey hathaway steven knight together all sued avron pictures i do believe they genuinely got screwed there you know movies quality aside it was a weird situation where you would email avron pictures like, hey, are there screenings available? And they would be like, no Espanol. Like, you know, like you were just like, hello, aren't you a movie studio?

Do you have a press screening? Like, it's weird. I know it's not Averon, but the movie After, which actually ended up doing really well. That was Averon. Yes. Oh, that was? That was Averon. Okay, so it was then.

ended up doing really well. That was Averon. Yes. Oh, that was? That was Averon. Okay, so it was then. So I was assigned by an editor at work to cover that movie

and I was like, you don't have to ask me twice. Harry Styles fanfic becomes a movie? Yes, please. I tried to find an email. I couldn't find anything. It ended with me

calling the production offices and a receptionist answered and I was like, hi, I'm from Vanity Fair. I'm trying to track down a screening or a screener link of After because I have to review it. And the young woman on the phone was like, where are you from?

Oh, okay. Hold on one second. And then there was like a long, like I was on hold for maybe a minute, which is a long time. And then a kind of gruff man picked up the phone and was like, why are you calling? Why do you want to know about that movie? And he just like, anduff man picked up the phone and was like, why are you calling? Why do you want to know about that movie? And he just like, and like basically hung up the phone. It was like I had called like the mobs, like, you know, the Russian mobs, like laundering company. Like, you know, it was like so crazy.

And I just, I've never seen that movie because of it. But like After Now has gotten a like foreign produced sequel that's hard R rated that did very well overseas. Right. Cause the first after did amazingly well in the UK. Right. Bombs here because of Avron. Yeah.

Yeah. The new one's called after we collided. Right. And it's, it's made a bunch of money, uh, overseas and it is a hard R right. It's a hard R now.

I have no idea. I, that's, that's, that's more information that I could give you right's a hard R now. I have no idea. That's more information that I could give you right now about the After Universe. I'm sorry. You've taxed me. You found my weakness. I know nothing more.

But they already greenlit the next two. To wrap Anne's career, this year she was in The Witches, which is a bad movie that I give two stars and she was in De Rees' The Last Thing He Wanted which is on Netflix now if you want to watch it which is a snowman level did they forget to finish the movie object it's not even bad in a

boring way you're just like I'm not sure I'm seeing and like are there scenes missing is like what happened? Did they drop it on Netflix by mistake? Did they not upload the final? You know, there's just something so weird about that thing. Well, the issue with that is I had to read the novella that it's based on the Joan Didion because we were going to do it as like a book club thing for our podcast. And then the release got pushed and everything. And the book, I mean, much like Democracy, a lot of

her other fiction, it's really hard to parse what's happening in the book, let alone trying to translate that into not only just a straightforward thriller, but something a little more artful, which I assumed E. Reese was trying to do. And it's just like, yeah, none of that works.

But if you tell people, like, there was a big-budget Netflix adaptation of a Joan Didion work by the writer and director of Mudbound, starring Anne Hathaway, Ben Affleck, and Willem Dafoe, that came out before the pandemic. Like, not part of this soup of just things disappearing into the ether. Got, like, a proper—played at the Parisis theater it was at sundance yes it was right it like it got like a proper normal before times launch and and it's just like it has not registered at all because everyone who sees it cannot calculate its existence but here's my point if i have one about Hathaway's sort of post-intern, I guess, career All of those decisions that I, all those movies Like, they basically make sense

I would not say she's made great choices Things like The Hustle and Serenity You know, come on Ocean's Eleven, that makes more sense Dark Waters, even The Witches, this big director, right? I don't know if I can find fault, though, and be like, this is a train wreck five years. But the collective thing, when you look at it,

it's like, oh, this is bad. She needs to pull out of this spin. Well, the problem is she's wandering perilously close to Naomi Watts syndrome, which is pick the right people, the right pedigree. It's just like the project after the one that worked. Or it's like the Game of Thrones pilot that doesn't go.

And that is a trap that so many actors can fall into. I was never sure that Naomi Watts had broken some old crone's dream catcher until the Game of Thrones thing. That was the one where it was like, this is rude. The Game of Thrones

show not going was like, because you know, the one where it was like, this is rude. The Game of Thrones show not going was like, because you know, everyone she works with was like, Naomi, I know it's been rough with movies. This is a fucking sure bet. Look at the Casper assembling. You're the lead of it. It's HBO. They so rarely don't take a pilot to series. Naomi, they want to do

10 Game of Thrones spinoffs. This is the first one. There's never been more of a sure thing. And they deliver the pilot and they're like, we'll wait for the next one. I will say, she had a movie that was at Toronto

called Penguin Bloom, which is about a magpie, not a penguin. They just name it Penguin. That's actually a nice little movie that Netflix picked up and I think it'll be good for her.

I think that movie is going to not exist, Richard. I hate to tell you. No, I don't think it's going to exist, but it's not going to be yet another uh- good for her. I think that movie is going to not exist, Richard. I hate to tell you. No, I don't think it's going to exist, but it's not going to be yet another uh-oh for her. No. It won't be a stain. Although, well, I shouldn't say this,

but I was emailing with a publicist, and I said, I think it's really good for her, and I got a very terse response back to that. What do you mean? What do you mean? And I love Naomi Watts. I don't mean to clown on Naomi Watts. It, yeah. What do you mean? Naomi, I love Naomi Watts. I don't mean to clown on Naomi Watts. It's just,

we all are in the same boat with her where we're like, come on, what's going on here? But it's a real trap that actors can fall into. I think, unfortunately,

it happens a lot more often to female, like, you know, female actors at a certain, you know, like late 30s where the projects

just get thinner and thinner and so they have to pick the stuff that seems the best. But you're not guaranteed that a Zemeckis movie is going to be good. You're not guaranteed that a Joan Diddy and Dee Rees movie is going to be good. And it's just been a really bad run of bad luck for her. I'll say a couple things about Hathaway. You know, what do you say? I have a longer thing to unpack about Hathaway.

Give me your Hathaway thing because then I want to pivot to Octavia for a second. Gladly. So Hathaway, I feel like, is a particularly good interview. I think she's very kind of sober when she talks about her place in the industry and her career. She's had great success, right? She's had great success but had weird ups and downs. And she's not self-pitying, you know, but she really sees things, I think, for what they are. And I feel like a couple years ago, she started in a lot of interviews, not in this boo-hoo kind of way, saying, like, I'm very aware of the fact and I was in my early 20s and I was getting roles that were originally written for women in their 30s that I would get stink eye from these actresses who I was now sniping parts out from. And I'm very aware like that I'm not Jennifer Lawrence, you know, that she's now in that position that I was in and I'm in another point of the bell curve and I need to figure out what my career is now.

So she's in that odd position where it's like, okay, right. So she's not like the spring chicken anymore, but also she's 38 years old. Like she has had so much career for someone who is still incredibly young, right? And still looks very young and plays very young. But I think she's aware of that thing that is not just the ageism in Hollywood, but the sort of like, what have you done for me lately? Who's the shiniest object? Who is that excitement over kind of thing?

Where then if she still wants to be the lead of a movie, she has to sort of go a little bit sideways to redefine what an Anne Hathaway movie is maybe, you know? Which is why I thought Colossal was such an interesting thing for her because it was like, it was with Neon, it was this brand new company,

like, and it just didn't pan out. I think the movie deserved better, you know? Yeah. But I think if she does a few more things like that, maybe some great glossy miniseries, you know,

in the vein of Sharp Objects or something like that, she'll be right back. Like, it'll be fine. But like, right, the Dee Rees thing makes perfect paper in that way. Oh, yeah.

It makes perfect sense on paper, I should say. It doesn't make perfect paper. It actually makes really bad paper. Yeah, don't try and write on the last thing she wanted. It's not going to. No. No, it's like writing on duct tape. But you see the appeal of something like The Witches where it's sort of like,

well, this is a role that is age agnostic. This sets me up for a different type of career in a certain way. I could enter a different era. I can enter an era of more theatricality, more sort of character-y performances where maybe I can still be the star, the above-the-title person, but I don't have to be the protagonist anymore in that sort of way. Her big movie that she's supposed to do is the Sesame Street movie, which Jonathan Kressel wrote and is directing, who did Moonbase 8 and Baskets and Portlandia is like one of the best comedy directors in television and has not made a feature yet. And they twice have been two months away from

starting production. The first time it got pulled because she got pregnant again. And the second time it got pulled because the pandemic happened. And that very much feels like her trying to do a like she's the main human character. She's the human who's with all the Muppets trying to help them get back to Sesame

Street the entire movie. And she'll get to sing and dance and be funny. And she's filming a movie during, like, about the pandemic, right? She's in Lockdown, the Stephen Knight movie, which we just talked about on another episode, Griffin. And now I can't remember which one it was. I believe joked about it maybe on three consecutive episodes.

Are you sure you guys didn't talk about that in a production meeting with Stephen Knight? Well, David is in the movie. We should mention that David is in the film, Lockdown. I'm the thing they're stealing. She's also in the James Gray movie. She's in the James Gray, coming-of-age, Bronx in the 60s, Queens in the 60s movie, which is Sutherland, Oscar Isaac, Hathaway, Robert De Niro,

Cate Blanchett, which is pretty stacked. There's no way that thing's a nothing. Hathaway and Gray are a good fit. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's going to be interesting. But I think she's trying to figure out... She was never really an ingenue, but I think she's trying to find a space

for herself as an actress that is not tied to this sort of value of shininess, you know? In this stupid industry. I hope she gets, yeah, right. I hope she does some cool stuff soon. Now, Octavia Spencer, who won an Academy Award in 2012, 2011,

for The Help, you know. And has now been nominated three times or four times? Three-time nominee. And I would say is an incredibly reliable actress. Doesn't miss. And has a really high Q score, I would think. Yeah. Has a high...

Right, is well-liked. Ma is like a meme, like... Ma, Ma fucking... Ma's great. I just think she has so much goodwill, and she's actually the Eugene Levy example of, like, when is she bad? Like, when have you ever seen her be bad?

Even if she's been cast in some phoned-in role, or, you know of like, when is she bad? Like, when have you ever seen her be bad? Even if she's been cast in some phoned-in role or whatever, you know, like she's not really being given much to do. Right. She's solid. She's worked with like Bong Joon-ho, Guillermo del Toro, right?

Like, you know, Zemeckis now. Like, she's worked with interesting directors. Coogler, obviously, in Fruitvale Station. You know, Diablo. She was in that Diablo Cody movie. And has done comedy, drama, horror. Has done everything.

Animated movies. Right. Yeah. It's just sort of like, a lot of these movies are not movies that I love. She's in a few Divergence, apparently. It's one of those series is that people were in I think Naomi Watts is in one of those yeah was she

Naomi Watts is in one of them and Kate Winslet kills her or Naomi Watts kills Kate Winslet I forget who knows who can say that's the franchise that was never finished

right they just never made a final movie it was gonna go on it was gonna go on to Amazon and then they just said actually you know what we're not gonna make it at all because the idea of legitimate movie was going to go on to Amazon and then they just said, actually, you know what? We're not going to make it at all. Because the idea

of legitimate movie stars having to do something that goes straight to a streaming platform was the world's greatest insult four years ago. To Shailene Woodley. Like, it was not even like...

Yes. Right. Ansel Elgort. Yeah. Who? And like, I did not... Exactly. Who indeed?

I did not like Loose. I did. I like Lo I did But some people liked it I think she's pretty interesting in that Ma is a movie that Is just Made to be a meme Made to be kind of like a fun trashy horror movie

They should make another Ma I think But you know I liked Ma Have you seen Ma Griff, you know, I liked Ma. Have you seen Ma, Griff? Yeah. Yeah, I've seen Ma. Ma is real good. Ma is fun.

Yeah. I saw Ma with some friends back when you could go to like friends' houses and stuff. And we then went to a bar, which is like a kind of a room in public where you would, you know, drink and stuff. And something in my brain just really shut down. And I couldn't stop making Ma puns for well, well, well past where it was funny at all.

And people were genuinely getting annoyed at me, but I couldn't... Anytime there was an uh sound in a sentence I was saying, I would have to replace it with Ma. It was... That movie is potent.

That's what I'll say. Yeah, absolutely Isn't that thing, Ava, the latest Tate Taylor movie Right With Jessica Chastain and Colin Farrell That's just on Netflix Yeah, well, because it was on Redbox

Or something It was on DirecTV And now it's on Netflix and it's doing well. And I hovered over it the other day, you know, like when they showed like a little autoplay,

a preview scene of the movie. And it was just Geena Davis in a wheelchair talking to Jessica Chastain about her hair. And I was like, isn't this an action movie? It was a very strange choice.

I just, I'm just, Tate Taylor's career, I don't, I genuinely like two of the movies he made and I really can't stand one of them. And the one that I can't stand is the one that was nominated for Best Picture.

But, like, I think Get On Up is pretty great. I think Ma is a lot of fun. I never saw The Girl on the Train. I assume that is bad. Like, that was always my... It's bad, except that, like, there are good performances in it. But the guy works.

Right, he'll get a good performance out of someone, and he's got a sort of trashy feel that is now feeling like it's like, oh, this is, like, his thing, not just sort of what he stumbles into. The trashiness is what I like. I wish he'd go whole hog into that.

Octavia's just got such an interesting career because it's like she was a casting associate. She was like the reader. Three Tate Taylor movies. Sorry, four Tate Taylor movies, just to be clear. That's why I was thinking Tate Taylor. I believe they did The Groundlings together. Am I mistaken about that? They're old, old friends.

They're old, because she's in his movie that no one's ever heard of. It's called, like, Chicken Party or whatever. You know, she's, like, in that thing. We should also mention that Octavia Spencer produced Green Book. She did. Yes. Yes, she did. She's been working a lot.

Yeah. No, but my point here was Octavia Spencer started out, I believe, as either a casting associate or a reader or both. But she worked in casting for a long time and was one of those people where, like, they would occasionally give her a small part, right? Because they were like, she's really good. You should give her, like, an under five. Just to be clear, Kate Winslet is the reader.

But yes, no, everything else you're saying is true. Thank you for the clarification. But, you know, and, you know, she's way back. If you watch Being John Malkovich, she has one scene in that. Before she started getting bigger roles, I knew her as just one of those people where you're like, oh, I know that person. That's a fun one-scene character actor presence. Isn't she in Dinner for Schmucks or something? Absolutely.

Her first credit is 1996, A Time to Kill, Rourke's Nurse, right? She's the woman in the elevator in Malkovich. She's in like Big Mama's house. You know, she's in Spider-Man. Right, right. Big Santa, Win a Date with Ted Hamilton. Like she's just in all these fucking movies. And then, excuse me, when she got the help, I think it was very much seen as one of

those, like, here's someone who's just been, like, doing the work for years. It never was a given that she was ever going to get a part this good. She stepped up to the plate. This movie's dog shit. It's a shit pie. But, like, I'm all in favor of giving her the Oscar, because when is she going to get another chance like this? And then,, like in a positive turn in this bullshit world, she's gotten two other Oscar nominations and has not only kept a robust career working on like really interesting projects of different directors, but has also like kind of willed herself into becoming a movie star. Like I thought she was just going to be, at best, a sort of, like, high-level character actress. Like, that's a big and Octavia Spencer, whatever.

But she's kind of done it all now. She's done her own fucking TV show. She starred in things. She's played support in things. You said she's done voiceover. She ran afoul

of Angela Lansbury, which is a huge career landmark for any one actor. Wait, did she? Well, because she was going to star in a remake of Murder, She Wrote. She was? That sounds good. Yeah, great idea.

That was going to be her huge TV thing. And then Angela Lansbury did some interview and was like, I don't understand. This sounds bad or something. And then the show didn't happen, not because of Angela Lansbury, but they coincided. But that's something. If Octavia wants to come back to that 15 years from now, but they coincided. But that's something,

if Octavia wants to come back to that 15 years from now, I'm game. Like, that project only gets better the older she gets. Exactly. Yes, that's true. Well, I mean,

according to The Witches, she's 90 years old. So I guess The Witches has decreed her. What I like about the narrative you just laid out, Griffin, about like the, you know, this kind of,

not fluke, because she's good in the movie, but like, come out of nowhere Oscar win, and then the subsequent two nominations to prove that it wasn't at all a fluke, is it's kind of a, it's a condensed version of the Marissa Tomei narrative,

where it's like Marissa Tomei got two other Oscar nominations after her deserved win, but she's still kind of staying with it. That people saw as a surprise win. Right, yes, yeah. Right, whereas Octavia is fully seen as like, oh, one of our great actors, win but she's still kind of staying people saw as a surprise win right yes yeah right whereas octavia is fully seen as like oh one of our great actors a movie star in the span of you know six

years yeah right right because even you look like her her run in between help and hidden figures is not as strong as her run from hidden figuresures to now. You know, where even just like she does Red Band Society, which gets canceled on Fox. Like she, after winning an Oscar, just does a Fox show. That doesn't really connect. I think her Apple TV show did okay, too. Yeah, and we're also, we're not even talking about her single biggest accomplishment.

What? Which is? David. What? She's Dab Dab the Duck in Too Little. I know. She is. She sure is. Dab Dab the Duck in Too Little. I know. She is. She sure is. Dab Dab the Duck. She sure is.

That's the film I've seen twice. But do you know how that happened, Griffin? How did that happen? She went to the studio and presented her chilling vision in chilling detail. She opened the book of Dab Dab. Dab Dab from the book itself. I think we just also have to acknowledge That Angela Lansbury played Balloon Lady

In Mary Poppins Returns That's a thing that happened It was committed to film But does she know she did? I don't know Or was she just sitting in a park with Balloon? You know that's also That part was designed for Julie Andrews

She was like hard pass I believe younger Like 10 years younger than Angela Lansbury. Absolutely. Angela Lansbury is 95 years old. Right. And it's like Angela Lansbury, it's like the connection there is like, okay, she was the star of Bedknobs and Broomsticks, which is the movie that everyone confuses with Mary Poppins. I just like that they were like, okay, there's this clear chain of succession where we can have Dick Van Dyke come back

and play the son of the banker from the last movie. That works, and no one else is playing Bert. But we've replaced Mary Poppins, so we should give her some role to pay tribute. Julie Andrews sees it, and she's like, this would be rude. Let Emily Blunt do her thing. I don't need to be

in this movie. And they were like, okay, so, I don't know, some other legendary broad? Who's some other classy bag of bones we can put in this movie

for one scene? Hand Ben Winshaw a balloon. It was going to be Sean Connery. Balloons? I love the balloons. There's that 15 years of roles in movies where you're like, what is this part?

And they're like, they were really trying to coax Connery out of retirement. This exists in the movie because they thought they were going to get to him. And the last second he said, I'd rather golf. All right. Do we have any more thoughts on the witches? Because I want to play the box office game. And yes, we will be playing the box office game. That's right. I don't know how you're going to do this I will say

this I think is it can now go down in history as the least we've ever talked about a movie on this show I mean what am I supposed to say I like the costume design but but it's like I said at the top of the show three things happen in this story like there's not a lot to

really go I don't know. He moves the camera around a bit. I hated the mouse shit. Yeah, here's what I'll say. I think the mouse shit sucks. I can't figure out what's wrong with it. Aside from, as you said, it's too antique-y. But also, I think they have the wrong approach to animating the mice.

Yeah, the mice are all wrong. Yeah, the whole vibe of them all wrong. Like so much of the eeriness of the witches when you read the book and you would see the images in your brain, but also watching the Rogue movie is that it's like, oh, that looks like a real mouse and a kid's voice is coming out of it. There's that existential Kafka-esque terror of there's a kid trapped in the mouse's body that is somehow taken away when the mouse is just like walking around on two feet and going like, hey, how you doing, lady? Like this very expressive bipedal mouse, you know? There's also the problem of Kristen Chenoweth sounds like a kid for an adult.

She doesn't actually sound like a child. And yet she's acting as a child against two actual children. And it just like, it makes no sense whatsoever. But I'd heard everyone shit on this movie, and I will say the first whatever it was, 30 minutes until they get

turned into mice, I was like, I'm surprised by how much I'm liking this. I thought there was genuine feeling to the stuff with Octavia Spencer and the grandson. The scene where she dances and tries to get him to cheer up, and that whole sequence is wonderful. All that stuff is great. Right, and a lot of that's

Octavia. But it feels like there's some feeling and specificity there to that. And I actually like the first grand meeting scene. Like,

until the witch It's fine. turns him into a fucking mouse, I like it. And here's the thing I'll say I like about it because I think this is going to be a slightly

controversial opinion before we stop talking about this movie and never talk about it ever again in the history of this podcast. I do like, he's not pushing any boundaries here technologically, but I do like that in its best moments, I do think he is using CGI in a way that I prefer, which is he is just trying to create nightmare imagery, right? Like there's shit like the weird growing of the witch arms that I kind of like because it feels aggressively disturbing and completely unconcerned with realism. And it feels like a modern evocation of I feel like a lot of the children's movies that our generation talk about that kind of scarred us where you're just like that weird thing that scene upset me like shit like the rogue the witches or lost in oz or whatever you know oh well that's really what

i like premised my review on when i when i wrote the review of the witches is like this kind of like belabored intro about like maybe it's just my age but it just feels like when i was a kid like movies were genuinely scary and for that made, like Return to Oz, like The Witches. And what I appreciated to some mild extent in this is that like that scene with the arms, if I were seven years old, eight years old, nine years old watching that, I would actually be scared.

Right, it's a faint praise award, but as opposed to a lot of these movies, which seem to be sanitized from top to bottom, there are moments where I feel like this film actually succeeds in achieving a kind of Roald Dahl scariness. None of the, I mean, Nicholas Roeg directs that movie, like a horror movie. It looks like hysteria. Yeah, it rules. But this, you know, I think that they're losing a bit of like the particular shabby kind of whimsy of Roald Dahl.

I agree. But yeah, I think that where it counts in terms of little kids seeing the movie and actually having some sort of... I mean, I think it's good that scary things should imprint on kids if they're harmless. That's the thing I like about it. I like that it's a little bit scary. The mice suck. That's my review. I guess I give it what did you give it David

two out of five okay so I'm trying to think if I give it a nut or a butt I'm trying to think which I guess I give it I give it half a cheek yeah half a cheek all right there you go somewhere between half a cheek and a pecan

let's play the box office game. We're going to do the box office week that this movie came out and was always supposed to come out. October 23rd to any 20. Can you tell me what the number one movie at the box office was that week, Griffin? It was a film with a major movie star. Can I just point out? Mm-hmm. The biggest thing I think we've lost this year is the box office, right?

The box office game, yes. But also, it's just kind of never going to come back in the same way. I think this is the opportunity that studios have always been looking for to start hiding their finances a little bit and only having to report things during investor days. And I think you're going to see a lot, especially with movies that are being released, you know, day and date. There's going to be a lot less transparency with this stuff. It's going to be a lot harder for us to play this game. Let's keep on talking about the past. Okay, so it's October...

23rd, 2020. Is Hocus Pocus the number one movie at the box office? Hocus Pocus is number six at the box office. Thank you for bringing it up, though. But it is doing very well in its 1424th week, making a robust $530,000. But no.

Number one. It was number one last week. It's holding very well this week to $2.3 million. That's right. Number one at the box office. It's an action movie. Action thriller.

Is it Honest Thief? Honest Thief. Never steal a man's second chance. Okay? Yeah. Okay? Liam Neeson is the Honest Thief. What if there was an Honest Thief? Okay? Does it just feel weird to talk about a movie like this

and have none of us gone to see it in theaters? I mean, to be fair, I'm not sure any of us would have seen Honest Thief. I would have seen Honest Thief in theaters. mean to be fair i'm not sure any of us would have seen honest thief i would have seen honest thief in theater even by my fandom of crappy liam neeson movies i would have been there opening night i would have brought my codger oh god no no thank you uh liam neeson he plays the in and out bandit in that movie that's his nickname the in and out bandit yeah i don't think he robs in and outs i think he's I think he's just In-N-Out quickly. No, he steals people's copies of In-N-Out on DVD.

The real In-N-Out Bandit is Joan Cusack, because she stole that movie. She steals that movie, Richard! Next year, he's in a movie called The Marksman. Liam Neeson is going to make these things until he is forcibly arrested and put in prison. What if he's the last theatrical movie star? That's fine.

I guess. Whatever. Number two at the box office. It's been out for three weeks. It's made nine million dollars. War with Grandpa? It's The War with Grandpa. I mean, it's slim pickings here, David. I'm trying to remember here. I mean, I still do check the box office every week. I feel like it's

not sinking in, but clearly it is. Hocus Pocus, I feel like peaked earlier, right? Because there was the week where suddenly Hocus Pocus outgrossed Tenet, but I think that was earlier in October. It was the week where, I'm not sure it ever quite outgrossed Tenet, but there was a week, no,

but it was close. On October 9th, it was within it was close. On October 9th, it was within... October 2nd and October 9th, it was within a million dollars of Tenet both times. But it never quite caught it. The War with Grandpa, though.

Obviously, salute the veterans of the War with Grandpa. Oaks, Fegley, Wee, Stan. I don't know. I mean, that movie was shot, I think, 2016. I mean, it was shot

pre-Weinstein Me Too because it was produced by Weinstein. In the Obama administration. Right. It is truly incredible to look at the poster for War with Grandpa and then look up a photo

of what Oaks Fegley looks like today. There was a Twitter meme going around, or like a prompt this week or last week, about one of your favorite movies in just

four stills and no text or whatever. And I was like, boop, boop, boop, Google image search War with Grandpa. And I found two stills from the movie from different scenes where it's just Robert De Niro looking, you know, kindly down at Oaks Fegley with his hand on his shoulder. Different sweaters, different points in the movie.

I just, I really, you know, you can tell what that movie's about from those stills. It sounds like it's about the love with Grandpa. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. That movie also has eight names above the title. Uma Thurman, Rob Riggle, Harvey Keitel,

Christopher Walken. Angela Lansbury. Balloon Lady. Cheech Marin. Cheech Marin, yeah. De Niro, Thurman, Riggle, Fegley, Nora Morano. With Cheech Marin, wait, I have to get this right. With Cheech Marin, with. De Niro, Thurman, Riggle, Fegley, Nora Morano.

With Cheech Marin, wait, I have to get this right. With Cheech Marin, with Jane Seymour, and Christopher Walken. Wow. Is Keitel not in it? I'm trying to remember if he bowed out or I just added him in my mind. Keitel is not in it as far as I know.

You're in a war with Harvey Keitel, but it has nothing to do with this. I'm in a war with Harvey Keitel, but it has nothing to do with this. I'm in a war with Keitel. I should also just mention, we should pay some respect, as you listed the cast there, Laura Marano of The War with Grandpa. Of course, we know her best

for being in the Back to You sitcom. And if you want to see Laura Marano on the Back to You sitcom, you gotta watch that Back to You season one DVD box set. I feel dirty You know he signed The Texas lawsuit against the election I'm saying Dan Crenshaw

Lights camera Jackson He signed it lights camera Jackson And the weird thing is he does have standing Yeah the Supreme Court will hear his argument Yeah Number four at the box office He does have standing. Yeah, the Supreme Court will hear his argument. Yeah. Number four at the box office is the most successful film released post-pandemic. Tenet?

Tenet. Which made $57 million domestically. And it's still in theaters, so I guess it can keep adding to that total. And you have to wonder when a movie will next surpass that number yes and 360 million dollars worldwide tenant we talked about it recently number five at the box office is a a halloween classic that was re-released. It's not Hocus Pocus. No.

Is it a horror movie or is it like a family Halloween movie? It's a family film. Is it Nightmare? Yes, Nightmare Before Christmas, which I guess comes out every year, right? Well, they were doing the 3D re-releases every year and then I feel like they stopped them and then I think they've been doing robust business this year. Because it also, I mean, Disney just fucking cracked the code on that movie, which is just like

we make money from Halloween to Christmas. That movie just runs the table for the last three months of the year. I'm sorry, I'm realizing I forgot to ask you what the number three movie is. It's the only new film at the box office this week. It's making $1 million. It's number three. There at the box office this week. It's making $1 million.

It's number three. There's a reason I forgot it. If you consider its title, this is one of those movies. It's a horror film that was literally released under cover of darkness. Hillbillyology? If only. So wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. I a second i'm sorry honest thief is number one war with grandpa is number two yes you're saying tenant is number four and nightmare is number five

okay yes i skipped over this entry irresponsible the score is now uh 27 griffin to david um okay it's it's Okay. It's not the Amblin one, right? It's not Come Play or whatever that's called? The Gillian Jacobs one? The most insane title ever given. Did you listen to Comedy Bang Bang where he kept calling it Come Play? Yes, I did.

Yes, I did. Just kept saying Come Play. That's a fun realization saying that movie out loud for the first time But that's another movie where you're like I don't know I guess that made 11 million dollars I guess that's the 5th highest grossing film of 2020 Yeah it's sticking around I guess

You're right Did Unhinged do well? Unhinged did I think about as well as it would have done Not in a pandemic It made 20 million dollars That's huge for a documentary. Richard! Richard!

That movie... I have some things to say about that movie. Have you seen it? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah, I saw it. I had to write about it. So did I.

Yep. No, come on, Griffin. It stars an actor we both like. We were talking about him with Nia DaCosta. Hmm. James Badgedale. James Badgedale. It was another one.

It was filmed in 2017. And it was a Fox movie that just sat while the Disney merger sort of went on. Oh, right. It's called The Something Man, right? The Empty Man. Yeah. And it was one of those things where even by the standards of a pandemic release,

it got dumped. This is what I'm talking about, though, Richard. It's like that's where they fucking hide the movies now, in theaters. Streaming, all eyes on streaming. That's where you put your big money propositions. Anyway, that's it. That's our episode.

This is the end of Zemakis. Oh, but we have to do our rankings. Oh boy, Jesus. I totally forgot about that. Let me see if I have my up-to-date rankings here. I'm going to stall for a moment. It's not like that's ever happened on the end of an episode,

end of a miniseries before. I think I do have this, but I might shift a couple of things. So why don't you read your list first? Richard, I assume you want to do yours now. Yeah, my ranking, it's actually just an acrostic that spells out Beowulf.

Richard, what is your favorite Zemeckis movie? I guess that's an easier question. Well, I mean, I... Our friend Jamie was talking about my favorite, Contact, on this podcast. Yes. I put Castaway on the BBC poll of best of the decade.

Or best of the 21st century so far or something. I love, love, love Castaway. I know it's a polarizing movie. But I think it's Contact and Castaway that were the two... Because I liked Forrest Gump, you know, I was like 11 when it came out or whatever. I saw Back to the Future.

I liked those. Fine. But Contact and Castaway just felt like grown-up cinema that I was like finally, as a teenager, ready to claim as my own. And so I've always been excited about a Zemeckis movie, even though he has let us down, as you guys have extensively covered, some less than fruitful avenues in recent years. Okay, I have my list. It's 20 in total? 20.

I just, I did my rearranging while Richard was talking, and I want to say it now, because if I let you read it first, I'm going to change my list eight more times. Okay, ready? Number one, Back to the Future. Yes, sure. Number two, Who Framed the Roger Rabbit?

Number three, Cast Away. Nice. Number four, David and Richard, Don't At Me, Back to the Future Part Two. Sure, sure. What Robert Zemeckis calls, perhaps the weirdest film I will ever make

in my entire career. It's weird. But that's about the human Back to the Future 2, not the toy. The real Back to the Future 2. Number five, I want to hold your hand. Number six, Allied.

What? Six! Good God, that's ridiculous. Alright, keep it going, keep it going. Griffin just became Matthew Morrison as the Grinch. Like, not his background. David, you don't want to know how high it was originally.

I only changed it recently. That's ridiculous. Okay. Number seven, contact. You have it over contact. All right, keep going. I mean, I could maybe flip those two. You do what you want.

Number eight, death becomes her. Yeah. Number nine, Back to the Future Part Three. Number ten, Romancing the Stone. Yep. Number eleven, Used Cars. Yep.

A fun comedy with bad gender politics. Sure. Twelve, Beowulf. Okay. I'm sorry. Let me take that again. Twelve. Beowulf. Okay. I'm sorry. Let me take that again. 12. Beowulf!

That's all right. Okay, sorry. Sorry I didn't give that the right energy the first time. Okay, keep going, keep going. Number 13, What Lies Beneath. Yes. Number 14, I'm Gonna Roll It. Flight.

Yeah, feeling all right. Number 15, Forrest Gump. Yeah, we both have it low. Number 16, The Witches. Wow, okay. Forrest Gump just barely edging out a movie that I will never think about ever again for the rest of my life.

Uh-huh. And then this is where I go into like, what do I value more or less in movies I don't like, right? Like which qualities irritate me more versus which qualities do I have to respect begrudgingly more? So these four, the ranking is tough, but this is what I came up with. Number 17, The Walk.

Ultimately, The Walk itself puts it above the other three. I think The Walk itself is just such a good sequence, even if the rest of that movie is annoying. Number 18, Welcome to Marwen. Was very confident that was going to be dead last for me. You fuckers knocked it up two positions on my list. And then number 19, Polar Express. And number 20, just through sheer, I have almost never seen a less engaging film with nothing of interest going on. A Christmas Carol.

All right. Here's, I mean, well, there's some divergence, but I, you know, we let go. All right. Okay. Number one for me, I mean, there's some divergence, but you know, all right, okay. Number one for me,

Roger Rabbit, as I think I've talked about. Which I've never seen. You'd like it. It's a good movie. I was not allowed to see it. My mom had very selective rules, and that was one for what I really did not like. Well, because her brother was killed by a toon, right? No, but that was in Cool World.

So I don't know what the Roger Rabbit issue was You'd like it Number one Rabbit Number two Back to the Future Number three Contact Number four Cast Away Number five I Wanna Hold Your Hand That's my five

Number six Death Becomes Her Number seven Back to the Future Part Three. Number eight, Used Cars. Number nine, Back to the Future Part Two. Number ten, Romancing the Stone. Part two higher than I thought you'd put it. I'm pleased. I have a real old and new divide with him, though.

It's undeniable. But I guess it's not so crazy number 11 flight feeling all right number 12 allied number 13 what lies beneath those two are pretty close for me like flawed interesting star driven i don't know you know that one's very flippable 14 i am Beowulf 15 Welcome to Marwen 16 Gump that might be Trolley of me I might have to think

About that 17 the walk 18 the polar express I've got the witches down at 19 There's nothing for me Christmas Carol is your obvious Basement dweller. Right. I thought, because you and I

were debating like a week or two ago about whether to put Polar Express or Christmas Carol in last position. And the fact for me is Polar Express is aggressively bad, but that makes it intriguing. It's interesting. It's interesting. It gets to 18

by sheer force of mania. Christmas Carol just sucks. Fuck that movie. If Mars needs moms had counted, where would that have ranked? One, obviously. And Contact could have been called Earth Needs Dads. Yes. Richard.

Richard! We're not topping that. That's the end of Zemeckckis 20 weeks with some interludes can i just say because you know trying to you know with distance now figure out ultimately who is robert zemeckis right who is he as a filmmaker not i'm not pretending this is as much of a serial parody as it used to be but to some degree that's always the thing we're trying to answer on this show when we spend this much time covering one filmmaker, right? And I feel like a lot of what we've discussed, you know, not just the man, the siren song of

technology luring him away from some of his best story instincts, but also this question of how much of Zemeckis' work is satirical, right? How much of it should you take at face value? What is his intent? Especially as someone who started out as a sort of comedic anarchist. And I think there's a moment in The Witches, ironically, despite it not being a very good film, that does kind of show what a sort of sly filmmaker he is

and how he's able to use the different elements of filmmaking as a medium in order toes in which Octavia Spencer says, we are family, and then it cuts to her dropping the needle on a record player, and then we are family plays. Be good to yourselves and each other. Have you guys been doing this for five months? Yeah. That's not your longest. That was Burton longer? Burton's 21. Have you guys been doing this for five months? Uh

Yeah That's not your longest That was Burton longer? Burton's 21 or 22 It's right at the same period as You know, Burton and him are Yeah Similar chunks

Were you going to announce new seasons? Oh my god Or did I miss here a cue? Thank you I'm segwaying for you So much Folks Now that I've made my final

Zemeckis does a bad needle drop in the most on-the-nose-way possible joke, it's time to announce our next too many series. That's right. We're announcing too many series at once, because one of the mini-series is about as easy to watch as anything we've ever covered, and one of them's a little

bit tricky, so we want to announce them both in one go. Our next mini-series, much discussed. I think we kind of just, you know, test drove the idea by talking about it in a bunch of episodes, and then lately have been teasing it. But we're doing John Musker, Ron Clements. Or did I mix their names up? Is it Ron Clements and John Musker? It's John Musker and Ron Clements. You had it right. Okay. We're doing Musker and Clements. Good job.

Legendary, modern, Disney, animation, directors. This miniseries allows us to cover the Disney Renaissance. So we're talking Great Mouse Detective, Little Mermaid. We're talking Aladdin. We're talking Hercules. We're talking Treasure Planet, Princess and the Frog. Bet we are. Moana. All those movies streaming now on Disney+.

The only entertainment company that will exist probably in five years. And after that, because that miniseries is going to take us until, I don't know, David, I guess right about the end of March, right? It feels like that. End of March, yes. We will also have the blankies there as a palate cleanser right at the end of March. We'll have the blankies there, but we're saving a Ben's Choice for later in the summer. So there won't be a Ben's Choice between now

and starting Musker Clements, and there won't be a Ben's Choice after because, well, things lined up pretty nicely. So why not make April May this year, David? April is May. That's really good. Four weeks of April,

four Elaine May movies. A New Leaf, Heartbreak Kid, Mikey and Nikki, Ishtar. Easy to see. If you wanted to make it a five-week thing, I could find video of the Elaine May play I was in in high school.

You were in an Elaine May play in high school? It's called Adaptation. It's loaded with 70s references like Khalil Gibran and stuff like that. And we as high schoolers in 2000 did it, not understanding a single joke. But we went to semifinals in the Massachusetts High School Drama Guild.

One act comedy, cast size, four people. Well, we had a cast of about 18. I mean, that sounds like some good Patreon content to me. Just saying. Yes. We're doing Elaine May, the so far foreign film career. Supposedly she might make

a fifth, maybe. Who knows? She's not a young woman, but hopefully. Yeah. A true original. She's been on the bracket a few times. She made an absolutely huge blank check movie in Ishtar

that was a legendary bounce. And rolls. She shot a million fucking feet of film on the night Mikey and Nikki, you know, like she's hit it in her home. She's one of a kind. She's a one of one. Right. She rules. And we're going to cover her and I'm excited. So yeah, Musker Clements, Elaine May.

That's what you need to know. Heartbreak Kid in particular, very hard to see. So you might want to start trying to track that one down now. Yes, Heartbreak Kid. particular, very hard to see. So you might want to start trying to track that one down now. Yes, Heartbreak Kid, impossible to see. Impossible to see. Weirdly. It's a Fox movie.

I found out. No, I found out why. And we'll talk about it when we get to that episode, whatever, three months from now. Richard, thank you so much for being on the show. Always a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having me. Your Alien Patreon, as a plug to subscribe to the Patreon, I've been really enjoying your alien series, and it caused me late at night to rent Alien Covenant, which was a mistake because I had

very bad dreams. Yeah, not a good late night movie, but a good movie. And Richard, if you love those, then you will probably enjoy the logical next step for our Patreon, our series of commentaries on the Crocodile Dundee movies currently happening over at patreon.com slash blank check. That is real. That is a thing we've decided to commit our time to doing.

And hopefully people do not unsubscribe. Well, I just did, but everyone else won't, I'm sure. Everyone else, please stay on. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe, not unsubscribe. Thanks to Lay Montgomery for our theme song,

our shiny new theme song. Hell yeah. Remastered 2021 version. Blank check theme, brackets 2021. Thanks to Joe, Bowen, and Pat Rounds for our artwork go to our Shopify page for some nerdy merch including a restock of the Comedy Points coins

and the Talkin' the Walk 2020 shirt go to blankestyleradio.com for some real nerdy shit tune in next week we're going straight into Great Mouse Detective right? that's right Muscle Green Clements baby

so fire up that Disney Plus we're talking Radigan baby and as always straight into Great Mouse Detective, right? That's right. Muscarine Clements, baby. So fire up that Disney+. We're talking Ratigan, baby. And as always, I'm David. Yep. No, I was doing the joke about how long it takes you to say I'm David at the beginning,

so I did it again at the end, but I'm the one who said I'm David even though I'm Griffin. Yeah, it was really weird, but I sort of got what you were going for.