Blank Check with Griffin & David - Titanic with Emily Yoshida and Katey Rich - Part Two

Episode Date: November 12, 2016

Griffin and David continue their discussion of Titanic with Emily Yoshida (Spin Magazine) and Katey Rich (Vanity Fair). But are Cameron’s drawings basic? Why is Neil deGrasse Tyson such a star bummer? Could a car really get THAT steamy? Together, they examine Paul Rudd as Jack, the STDs of 1912, CD-rom game Titanic: Adventure Out of Time and theorize why this is a mall movie.

But this ship can't sink. She's made a podcast, sir. I assure you she can. Glad that we got the baby in the room tone there. And she will. And she will. All right, guys. Part two of Titanic.

We're going to jump right into it. Podtanic, Blank Check, Griffin and David, The Two Friends, Podnator, Judgment Cast, Filmographies, Baby, Producer Ben. Glad that everyone, I'm glad for anyone who this is their first episode of the podcast I can't think of a better entry To our world than this episode Alright so we're talking Titanic We took a break, we're back in the studio We ate some pizza

We got a fussy baby in the studio Yeah the third guest is rejecting Titanic Guest three He's selfishly asked guest two to leave with him. We just got so upset when he started thinking about all the lives lost. Yeah, I know.

He was a big Leo head back in the 90s. We said that no one in this room really rapped Leo Mania, but that's not true. Charlie Rich. I mean, Charlie Baltus.

He's not a public figure yet. So I'm going to give some final thoughts on basically what I want you guys to talk about is the geography in this movie and the way that he makes it clear

where everything on the ship is totally agree with you and what's going on when it's sinking and how scary water can be when it overruns all that stuff he does an amazing job

we talked about the recreation of the sinking on the computer and how that adds to it but yeah that's what makes this movie incredible the doors busting open

like knowing what the significance of A deck B deck setting up that hierarchy yeah and he does so many sort of like

sweeping shots like it almost you would almost argue it was repetitive he keeps on doing those sweeping shots from outside the ship that goes around

zooming around it it just gives you such a sense all of that the tilted angle down the hallway that's like one of the with the doors

all busting open. Oh yeah, it's great. I think that's all CGI. And even like getting ahead of ourselves but when Leah's handcuffed to the pipe

and they keep on cutting to that same shot from outside the port window. And the water level's going up. He's just, I mean we said this. I think this ship may sink.

We've said this a lot with Cameron. It came up in I think our Terminator episode, Terminator 2 episode. But he is kind of the master of spatial geography. He really is. For the scale of the films he makes.

For action scenes, especially. I mean, it's why, to me, Avatar stands out as an action movie in ways that people don't understand sometimes. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, because you have a lot of scale. You have a lot of creatures of different sizes. I just feel like it's like if someone does something, there's a cause and effect that he very clearly represents.

He's a cause and effect filmmaker. Katie, back to you. Oh, no, that was the main thing I wanted to say. Geography! I'm out! No, kind of, yeah. I mean, I'm going to be listening to this, obviously. Charlie is going to listen to it, and he's going to have a lot of points that you guys didn't make. He'll sort of gesture and maybe put his hand in his mouth. He'll be commenting

on Reddit, actually, about everything you missed. Charlie's brutal on Reddit. Yeah, he'll sort of gesture and maybe put his hand in his mouth. He'll be commenting on Reddit, actually, about everything you missed. Charlie's brutal on Reddit. Yeah, I know. Baltus 420. Baltus 420 vape lights. So yeah, so we just look forward to coming back for the Old Dogs series.

Yes, of course, yes. Katie, you're the best. Guys, this is fun. It's great to have you on. I'm glad you got to be on Titanic. Me too. Even though you became a mother in between you saying, I gotta be on Titanic. Me too. Even though you became a mother in between you saying, I got to be on Titanic.

I know, that's true. Like months ago, I volunteered for this. And then that time I had a baby. And you guys kindly invited us both. That's right, dude. Now he's talking. I know. Fighting in the War Room, Little Gold Man, Vanity Fair.

That's right. And at Katie Rich on Twitter. K-A-T-E-Y for all the spellers out there. Hells yeah. Rich like Richie Rich. Yes. Oh boy. Okay. Cut us off. Charlie, thank you for being here.

Thanks, Charlie. It was nice to hang out with you. He loves the headphones. Charlie, do you have any burger reports? That was pretty good. He'll come back in ten years and explain what that meant. Sean Penn, huh? Safe trip home. Bye.

She's good. So we're losing the mother of Charlie, but we're retaining the mother of blankies, Emily Ishida. I want to say that this is twice in a row now

that I've been in on a four person podcast and the other person has had to leave in the middle. I feel like maybe I'm too intimidating. Yeah, that's what it is. I feel like I drive people out of the room.

You just have a presence that overwhelms. Yeah. You know, you're such a big personality. That's part of it. Huge. For the listener at home. Nothing like a big personality. Love a big personality.

Honker. Bigger. Bigger. For the listener at home, I would describe Emily as a bruiser. Thank you. Thank you. A bruiser and a brawler would describe Emily as a bruiser. Thank you. Thank you. A bruiser and a brawler. I love the word bruiser.

We don't say that enough anymore. I've been trying to use it a lot lately. I think it's funny. Well, for this entire podcast, they can't see at home, but I've just been standing the whole time. Yeah. And I'm kind of looming over Katie and Charlie. Arms akimbo, right?

Yes. That kind of got me. Very Trump style. Yeahimbo, right? Yes. Very Trump style. Occasionally you would make this the A-OK symbol the way he does. Yes, I would make a little circle. I'll say this too. I mean,

blood dripping off of her knuckles this entire time. Weird. And at first I thought it was someone else's blood, but it hasn't stopped dripping. So now I just wonder if she herself has bloody knuckles during our break well also before the podcast i went in and i was i was uh so mad about uh about the titanic just the situation in general it was just a bad situation so you think it was mishandled well no i went into the bathroom and i punched the mirror what if yeah we go into the you say I just got, before I go to the bathroom,

a shattered mirror with blood dripping down. Emily's hand is wrapped. Those women and children. Emily's hand is wrapped in a UCB tote bag. Oh, Emily. Emily. Because we aren't doing the usual bullshit we do to pad out at the beginning of an episode.

Pad out? What are you talking about? Come on. This is a good time for you to talk about Titanic Adventure at a time. This is my merchandise spotlight, although it doesn't have anything to do. It actually predates Titanic

the movie, much like Titanic the musical, which we discussed before we started. And the Peter Gallagher miniseries of PBS we found out about. I mean, some of this stuff was definitely cashing in on the fact that Titanic was the biggest thing in the world, but some of it is also just like, was it just time for us

to be into the Titanic? It is interesting that it all, I mean, the Titanic wreck was found in 85. And that rekindled, I feel like, a lot of interest in the Titanic. So I think that was part of a general sort of groundswell

of like a new generation really getting obsessed with it. They tried to raise the, you know, there were all these concepts of can we bring the wreck back up? You know? So I don't know. And like then the deep sea diving is happening.

So maybe it was just more. They have the artifact exhibitions that go around. Right. There was that touring. And so it was just in the ether. Yeah. And I don't know. There's also the great Douglas Adams book,

Starship Titanic, which was also attached to a video game. Very strange. Douglas Adams and Terry Jones from Monty Python wrote it together. And it's about, the idea of it is it's Starship Titanic,

which is like the sea ship, like a big, grand, amazing thing. And it has a spontaneous existence failure in its first minute of, like, so it's, and so it just blinks out of existence.

And then it, like, reappears later and these, like, journalists, like, go on it to try and figure out what happened. Very weird little book. Can I ask a sidebar question?

Just because I invoke my sister a lot on this podcast because since we're a decade apart. You do invoke her a lot. Yeah, but it's often an interesting generational test for me to see in terms of the public consciousness, in terms of what is popular and what isn't. It's like 10 years. No, absolutely. How much of what is popular and what isn't. You know, it's like 10 years. Yeah, just comparison stuff.

No, absolutely. How much of what you're into is generational and how much of it is kind of timeless. Yeah, and I think a lot changed culturally in those 10 years between our childhoods. But I feel like when this movie came out, not just because there were other Titanic projects, although there certainly were.

This wasn't like, oh, finally, they've made something about the Titanic. Other shit had happened even in the years leading up to it but i just felt like titanic was a story that everyone knew like it was a big american story that was talked about a lot yeah and i wonder if for my sister's generation it's like predominantly titanic is this movie right yeah they know it as the thing that that movie was based off of. Yeah. Whereas, like, before that, there wasn't a definitive Titanic thing. Yeah. It was like World War II. It was like, there are movies about World War II.

It's just a big, crazy thing to have. It's like Pompeii. Yeah, exactly. And now there's the definitive Pompeii movie. It took them that long to make a Pompeii movie after Titanic. And they blew it. They blew it. Because they could have put a Pompeii movie into production

as soon as it was clear that Titanic was the biggest thing in the world I don't know, I feel like an early Otz Pompeii would be better than a 2015 or whatever. I believe Roman Polanski was trying to make one for a while after The Penis, like that was sort of his blank check

goal. What are you laughing at? You said penis. Yeah, as for the penis, that's what that movie's called, right? The movie about Adrian Brody's wang? That movie's called The Penis. Am I wrong about that? He wanted to adapt Robert Harris's novel Pompeii.

I think that was his big idea, yeah. And I think it was going to be... It was canceled because of the strike or the threat of a strike. The writer's guild strike? The threatened SAG strike that never happened. And it was Scarlett Johansson, I never happened. And it was Scarlett Johansson I think. I think it was Scarlett Johansson. Orlando Bloom

and Scarlett Johansson. Thank you. Well I mean like they basically got the poor man's Orlando Bloom and that's saying something. It was Kit Harington? Yeah that's a good. I mean I don't know if he's the poor man Orlando Bloom because that just seems crazy that there could be a poor man. That's what I'm saying. That is saying something. But he does get I mean Orlando I don't know if he's the poor man Orlando Bloom, because that just seems crazy that there could be a poor man. That's what I'm saying.

That is saying something. But he does get, I mean, Orlando Bloom is in a lot of large projects that are successful. For a second there. Yeah. Or was, yeah. We've talked about Orlando Bloom's penis enough on this podcast. We should talk about something else. All right.

Okay. So what I wanted to speak about, though, and anybody who knows me in real life has, and has had, uh, a couple of drinks at least with me, uh, has definitely been a party to my, uh, long spiel on the greatest video game, uh,

after mist ever, or the greatest CD ROM game I should say ever created after, after, uh, mist, which is the best, um, is Titanic adventure out of time,

which was a 1996, uh, CD ROM game by the company cyber flicks, cyber flicks. is Titanic Adventure Out of Time, which was a 1996 CD-ROM game. By the company Cyberflix. Cyberflix. Did they make anything else? Not Netflix. No. They really lost out there.

Oh, man, I remember that logo. I must ask, is there a colon in this title after Titanic? I think it is a colon. I love colons in my titles. Titanic colon Adventure Out of Time. Okay, great. Sounds good. Okay, so the premise of Titanic. Well, okay, so here's the main thing that I think was titles. Titanic colon, Adventure Out of Time. Okay, so the premise of...

Okay, so here's the main thing that I think was the selling point of Titanic Adventure Out of Time is that it includes more or less a complete computer generated model of the ship that you can click around and travel up and down in. And it looks like the details are pretty on.

For 96, yeah. It's not bad and it's there are these weird talking characters that are like a combination of puppet animation and actual photography, which is really spooky. Yeah, I mean, look at any... Yeah, it's really scary. But was that mid-90s video game thing where they would use photos?

Oh, yeah. That's... If you go to my Tumblr right now, that's at the top of it. I'm going right to her Tumblr. Don't tell anybody the address of my Tumblr. If I missed out, it's too late. I missed out. Anyway.

Anyway. So, Titanic Adventure at a Time you are a secret agent a British secret agent in World War II it opens with you isn't there some business with Hitler?

yeah so you're in the middle of like firebombings or whatever or the blitz in London. And you're apparently you were on you were on a mission on the Titanic that could have potentially stopped World War One and thus World War Two. But you failed at this mission. But then your apartment gets bombed and you travel back in time to the Titanic to get a second chance. Was it a time bomb? Apparently.

I mean, it's kind of, it's very high concept. Yeah. So you're on the Titanic, but you're dealing with Germans and some kind of Slavic stowaway. I forget where he's from. Yeah, what was his name? I am Vlad. I think his name is Vlad.

There's a really amazing part. Vlad Demonic. Yeah. Serbian. Oh, that's subtle. Is he a bad guy? There is a whole plot involving a priceless diamond necklace and a fake copy that you have to switch back and forth it's very uh eerie and it stars

deonardo le caprio good good uh-huh uh-huh um so had you been playing this before you saw the movie no i got it after because like i i think the thing that you know like i feel like katie and i did this more than you guys did just insisting like, like, well, we were really into the ship, though. The ship is, like, really the cool thing. But that was the thing that stuck with me after seeing the movie. It was, like, I was very interested in my other theory that I presented to you before we did the podcast, which is that the fantasy of Titanic is living and dying

and falling in love in a mall. That's some good shit right there. Which is why tweens are into it. I mean, it is, like, a hotel, but it's also, like, a whole society. living and dying and falling in love in a mall. That's some good shit right there. Which is why tweens are into it. I mean, it is like a hotel, but it's also like a whole society. Everything you need is on it. Like a mall with a church in it and also a gym. Yeah, there was a squash court on the Titanic.

There was a gym with weird exercise machines. I wish we could have seen all that. It's that weird kind of like mall thing. I mean, if you go to a cruise ship now, they're all essentially malls, floating malls. Right. Yeah. Right. And you've been on a cruise. I've never been on a cruise.

I've been on a cruise. Yeah. As of two years ago, I went on a cruise. But so it's that weird thing of like hotel, mall, summer camp because nobody can leave. Well, that's the thing. Right. But it's also everyone goes to the mall.

You can meet anyone at the mall, right? Anything can happen at the mall. It's a weird democratic social strategy. You could cross paths with somebody you never would have crossed paths with. Exactly.

At the, you know, Accessorize. That's a British store. No, I know from Accessorize. I'm just so bummed out that Dawn of the Dead isn't a romantic comedy. Like, now I'm thinking about

that's the one element missing from that movie is like the star cross lovers thing. I mean there are not nearly enough mall movies I think frankly. For how much the mall at one time was a part of American culture. Now I'm thinking about it. But look so much was said in Mallrats what's left. There's scenes from a mall and there's

Mallrats. But Mallrats covers it all. It's a classic. It's a perfect all inclusive screenplay. All encompassing, all inclusive. I don't think Mallrats is it all. It's a classic. It's a perfect all-inclusive screenplay. All-encompassing, all-inclusive. I don't think Mallrats is very good, but I do think that the female characters are beautifully written. Beautifully written.

Totally three-dimensional. Yeah. I haven't seen Mallrats in like a thousand years. Sucks. What are some other mall movies? Scenes from a Mall is the movie where Woody Allen goes down on Bette Midler in a movie theater, right?

Correct. Yeah, that movie shouldn't exist. What I think of right now is the episode of the OC where they got stuck in the mall. Paul Blart Mall Club. Oh, right. Paul Blart Mall Club 2. And also Observe and Report is almost entirely set in a mall. But that's doing like creepy mall.

Right. Chopping mall. Chopping mall. The two Dawn of the Dead. Mall movie. I mean, that is the best dead movie, though. I agree. That is the best dead movie, though. I agree. That is the best dead movie.

Does Night of the Comet take place in a mall? It has a lot of mall stuff. Right, but it's not exclusively mall set. Bad Santa mostly takes place in a mall. Oh, that's true. How many movies take place on a boat? Titanic, are you trying to pivot back to Titanic? I am very loosely trying to pivot back to Titanic. What a pro. I know. We need Emily on every boat. Titanic, are you trying to get us, are you trying to pivot back to Titanic? I am very loosely trying to pivot us.

What a pro. We need Emily on every week just to pivot us. Hire me for your podcast. You're like a podcast coach. We've got a lot of money. We've actually, we've been bleeding money in the reverse sense. We have too much money to spend on this podcast.

Our budget's too big. We need to hire more people. Yeah, that's definitely what's going on with us. All right, Titanic. Titanic. So we left it at right in the middle of the movie, right there in the middle when she's about to throw herself overboard. Yeah.

Right square in the middle of the movie. Great job. Anyway. So. So there's a whole, a lot of roll on the nose dialogue where it's like, I can't pull you up. You have to pull yourself up. All that stuff, which gets repeated multiple times. There's a lot of very strong telegraphing that like, oh, Rose isn't some helpless girl.

Sure. Which feels a little obligatory to me, but that stuff usually does. He likes that kind of obligatory stuff. He's a big fan. I think this scene really turned me off as a 15-year-old. I think this is why I started to get cynical watching the movie as a teenager, you know? Because she's about to kill herself?

Yeah, who would do that? Also, the fact that he's like, oh, you're not going to do it. Like, that's pretty rough. She's in a pretty tight dress and she went all the way over to the other side like I don't think

this is a cry for help like yeah she it's almost crazy that she doesn't die like you know yeah

the reason I don't like the scene is the that then you have to have them struggling like she slips and he pulls her up

and then it looks like a thing right you need it because there has to be like a thing for him to get invited it because there has to be like a thing for him to get invited to dinner. It's got a little clunky to me. I also don't love this.

But everything it activates in the story I like. Sure. You know, I mean, the explanation of how he gets invited into this other world and all of that I like. I don't think that would ever have happened. But I do like that Billy Zane is the one to invite him because that and and the way he invite where he's like hmm you're still unhappy no one's like she almost

fell off the fucking ship like suicide or not let's like like we need to take her inside water like rose is not pleased and he's like what to do what to do dawson you know come entertain us and that's your poorness, and that's of course before, yeah, before then he's just like, oh, 20 should do it. Like, yeah. Good old Cal. Cal almost feels like a character who's just verbalizing his entire inner monologue. Like, there's no inner thoughts. Because there's no one

to check him. There's no one to say, hey, man, that's out of line. I mean, male privilege much? You know, he thinks all of his thoughts are worth sharing with the world. You're so woke. I'm pretty woke. Look, I don't want to say I'm an ally. But low-key, I'm an ally. Low-key, I'm an ally. Low-key ally.

Isn't it great when people tell you how much they're an ally? That's always not suspicious at all. There's no red flag there. No red flag there. But literally, no one respects women more than me. So, he gets invited to dinner. Oh oh and before that

then they have another stroll on the deck where he teaches her how to spit and then there's a very awkward moment yeah and it's also when she sees his painting or is that after that's the first time that they take a walk together because she's like that's when they have

the one obligatory beat of like oh she's annoyed with him now they're kind of fighting and because she's like, that's when they have the one obligatory beat of like, oh, she's annoyed with him. Now they're kind of fighting. And then she's like, well, you're being rather rude. Yeah, and then she like, out of nowhere is like, oh, I hate you. Let me grab your sketchbook. I can't stand you. What are these anyway?

Why does he have them with him anyway? What an obnoxious man. I guess he has nowhere to put them. Oh, no. This is the takeaway from this. As you are, as you grow older and you watch this movie uh if you were ever swayed by the notion of jack dawson being a romantic character once you are actually into your late 20s or 30s and have met some jack dawson's you are like that guy sucks that guy yeah check out my charcoal drawings of old ladies hands right which is like equivalent to fucking playing like Wonderwall at a party on an acoustic

you know like that's like the same move yeah uh also another thing that I know this is not very not a pleasant subject but I mean Jack is not a virgin right one assumes he is not I mean he's been hanging out with a lot of

French ladies of the night yeah and Madame Bijou I feel like I mean, he's been hanging out with a lot of French prostitutes. French ladies of the night. Old French whores. And Madame Bijoux. I feel like Rose definitely doesn't come out of this whole situation. She probably had a few surprises, unpleasant surprises, when she got back to New York is what I'm saying. Oh, you think he may be.

Okay. All right. Yeah. You know, look, it's 1912. But she does live till she's 100. She didn't get syphilis. I'm not saying syphilis. It may be, okay, all right. Yeah, you know, look, it's 1912. But she does live till she's 100. She didn't get syphilis. I'm not saying syphilis. It may be something else.

Sure. And the clap. But then again, of course, she doesn't perish, so that's pretty good. No, yeah, she totally lives. I mean, also. I don't know. Maybe he didn't even put it in. We don't know.

We just know that she puts her hand on the glass there is that and they're very sweaty there is that scene when she first boards the ship and she tells Bill Paxton

to put on a condom before they shake hands alright I'm just saying it's subtext it's subtle alright we're moving on I mean

I shouldn't even be mad at Griffin because Emily's the one who brought this up thank you good job Emily thank you for alley-ooping me sorry I feel like Emily has a lot of theories I shouldn't even be mad at Griffin because Emily's the one who brought this up. Thank you. Good job, Emily. Thank you for alley-ooping me. I feel like Emily has a lot of theories, and this is part two is where she's going to air out all her theories.

I feel like that's probably... Oh, I left my notepads on. I have some theories on my notepad. This is why we call Emily the theorist, the mother of blankies. Okay, so he goes to dinner. Yeah, wait, there was something I wanted to say. Oh, all these scenes kind of lost me. I mean, I think they're just...

I don't think I care about young Griffin. I gotta be honest with you. Well, I think they're... But even watching it now today, I'm saying, I still like... It goes on more easily because I'm able to view the movie as a whole and understand what they're setting up.

But I still think they're like the clumsiest or clunkiest scenes in the movie to me. They feel a little, dare I say it, they feel a little Anakin Padme to me. Oh, I don't agree with that. The early chunks where they're not really getting along, where they're sort of fighting with each other. You went too far.

They're not anywhere near as bad, but they have touches. I don't agree with this, Emily. I don't agree with it either. I think they do have chemistry. I don't agree with this, Emily. I don't agree with it either. I think they do have chemistry. I think that is the difference. Like, that's the thing that also makes the film work. Because you do believe that they're...

I just don't like them arguing. I don't like watching people argue. They literally only argue that. They argue for like one minute. Briefly, for like five seconds. It's not even an argument. He just says, do you love Cal? And she's like, what?

Like, how can you ask me this? Yeah. Well, you're... She calls him annoying at one point. It's very cute. I think the whole thing is just cute. You never really feel bugged. But this is the other element of it. Whereas in Anakin Padme, just to be clear,

she's like, I feel like a system of laws and governance is good. He's like, I feel like someone should just tell everyone what to do. As they're like rolling around in the grass. Also, fuck sand. I mean, if you want to compare those two, like they are really

nothing alike because Anakin and Padme are like a couple where their love is like they are talking about government and their big ideas like that. And like that's what

half of their conversations are about. And this is a love story that takes place within two days, practically within two days. But within a setting that is a microcosm. Yeah. But they don't talk about it at all. Yeah. I like that.

I mean, there's very few allusions to the fact like, Oh, I know how the world works or whatever, but it's not like they're sitting there like dissecting like, Oh yeah. The aristocracy or whatever. It's just the broad stuff fact like, oh, I know how the world works or whatever, but it's not like they're sitting there like dissecting like, oh, the aristocracy or whatever like that. It's just the broad stuff of like, you know, let me show you a real good time down in steerage, you know,

with the fiddle and the Irish dancing. They each are representing the thing that they're not talking about. Right. Right. Right. And he teaches her how to spit. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I mean,

a big difference is that like all of us saw this movie for the first time when we were younger than the characters. Sure. And we're now all watching at a point where we're, like, you know, like, at least in terms of, like, worldview significantly older than the characters. Where you can, like, watch this as, like, a nostalgia thing. Not just for, like, when the movie came out, but it's like, oh, this is very much a young love movie. Yes. nostalgia thing not just for like when the movie came out but it's like oh this is very much a young love movie yes versus like for all of us when we were watching it it was some sort of meant to be aspirational sort of like this is what love is this is sort of like standard bear and so i i mean all this stuff goes down for me more easily now because the stuff i find kind of

annoying i'm like well teenagers are annoying they're a bunch of but also you have old rose contextualizing everything and the fact that, it's a memory play. It could be, it could be, uh, like just a young love story about something burning bright and hot and then getting dunked in an ice bath. Sure.

Uh, but instead it is about the memory of this one thing. And it's not the thing I love about this movie. I thought, I thought I was going to say this for the end, but I'll bring it up now. One thing I like about this movie a lot is that it's not that like she has this great love and then she survives and she never loves

again right she has this whole life i love that and she even gets married and has a kid like he freed her from a life she didn't want it wasn't awakening to have the life she wanted that's the biggest thing the force reawakens the importance of a young love is not that this is like your only love you're gonna ever have but's going to be like the thing that kind of kickstarts your life in a way or like awakens you emotionally or whatever, even if it doesn't last. And I think that that is like a very mature perspective and like worldwide perspective

on like what otherwise is a pretty insubstantial young love type story. But I mean, yeah, and that is what sells that last moment of the movie, which we'll get to. So great. The pan over the pictures and then, you know, returning to, yeah. That having been said.

Jack still sucks. Yeah. He's all right. He's a little bit of a fuckboy. I like Jack. He's a little bit of a fuckboy. Everyone's a fuckboy these days. The Cameron fuckboys.

Cameron's got a lot of fuckboys. He doesn't, he waits, he paints her nude and then they don't do anything until they get to the car. I'm not saying fuckboy because it's all about fucking. I'm saying like fuckboy like a fuck. Jack just has less of a personality, right? Right. He doesn't really have a personality. He's magical.

He's very magical. He's a little magic. He's a manic pixie dream boy. He really is. He is a manic pixie dream boy. And that scene in The Dinner Table where he's suddenly just spouting these canned lines where he's like, you know, a week ago I was just a piece of shit and now i'm on the titanic with you fine fellas and all that stuff like it's like i'm like did you are you running for office

lemons it's also like if you're this charismatic and charming and all these rich people love you how come you have the life right you i guess he wants that life that's the other thing i'm gonna throw out the other like mild grape because obviously i love this movie right but this is a mild grape i think I'm going to win the two of you over on Jack's drawings kind of basic right they're okay you know who drew them right Jim Cameron yeah

really yeah which makes sense because they're very very technically proficient yeah they're very they feel very contemporary to me again they do that is very true and they feel very clinical to me yeah which makes sense from Cameron, where it's just like, oh, he knows how to draw a thing. There is some weird thing about them where I'm just like, well, of course they look good. They're Jack's famous drawings from the Titanic.

Like, I've just seen them so many times now. This style is so instantly recognizable to me as Jack Dawson, you know, circa 1912. It's just, every time I watch this, the moment I have the hardest time swallowing it is when she looks at the drawing and she goes, Jack, these are... No, she's like... These are very good. Well, these are good. These are very good, actually.

And then she, like, has to sit down. Okay, cool it. You know, like, in New York City, like, the people they have in, like, Times Square and Central Park who, like, aren't the caricaturists, but they just have, like, the semi-realistic portraits? Like, that's what they look like to me where it's like this is someone who learned how to draw technically. I think it's very nice

that Jim Cameron knows how to draw that well. I do too. I think that being able to draw from life is a sign of character for me even if you're not a good person.

Yes. That's a good observation from Emily Ishida. I totally agree with that. As somebody who's like mom just like that was one of the first things my mom ever taught me how to do

was just draw from life. Which I cannot do at all, so I must be a piece of shit. My mom was the same way. I draw a lot, and it's because my mom taught me how to draw very well. No one in my family has any artistic ability. My siblings don't draw. I do, and my mom does. Her grandmother drew.

So he dines with them. I really like Kathy Bates. It's just ridiculous. It's just ridiculous. I sharpen a pencil. Did you say shut up? Because I screwed up. I was going to say shout out.

Shout out Celine? Yeah. Anyway, Kathy Bates. I just. Wonderful. Yeah, Kathy Bates. I just. Wonderful. Yeah, she's wonderful. She really saves these scenes, these sort of like really, really silly, ostentatious.

Very hokey. Yeah. In the wrong hands. It could have been very hokey. And it just, I mean, like he's using the, you know, obviously he's kind of molding the Molly Brown iconic sort of character. I mean, she wouldn't even have been called Molly. she wasn't called that until after the titanic thing she was maggie brown oh uh but like that's i feel like this is the trickiest play like you know like we

get that she would like jack and that she would like give him a give him a coat and tails and she would like teach him to yeah and she serves important story functions in that way of like teaching him how to be able to acquit himself. Right. The silverware the right way. Work from the outside in or the inside out. I always get it wrong. Outside in.

There's a character we haven't talked about a lot who you briefly invoked as the Titanic Terminator. Oh, Spicer Lovejoy. Which is an unbelievable character name. Played by David Warner. Great character name. Stark and Tron. Stark and Tron. Stark and Tron. I mean, that whole scene in the hallway is just Terminator again. Yeah.

Like, it's amazing. He does, like, even the blade running to a degree while wearing, like, a three-piece suit, like a waistcoat. Well, this is where David, other David, brought up the point that I have to credit him with, which is that in that scene watching it, it occurred to him that Leo's hair does look like John and Connor's hair. Oh, yeah, the swoop. Yeah. And there is that scene where Leo's wearing the public enemy t-shirts.

And he hacks into an ATM. Yeah. And he just blasts like 15 seconds of You Could Be Mine on a boombox. Like just enough that then they can say it's the song from my heart beats for thee i love him so much i mean edward furlong had he not fucked up he was i think he was talked about for this role oh really really yeah he he was he was supposed to be what leo became right like kind of like the dreamy yeah boy the teen girls like i mean you know who they should have screen tested for this role.

The real John Connor. Producer Ben. Okay. He can't hear you. He can't talk. I know, I'm just saying. I would have loved to see

Producer Ben be in Titanic. There is that famous story that Ben Tanic. That Kate Winslet screen tested with Leo and then said to James Cameron like he's really good even if you don't hire me you should hire that guy.

Yeah. Which I like. Isn't there my misremembering or. Then she harassed James Cameron for the role like really harassed him. Yeah she would like call him every single day and say I have to be Rose I have to be like she just like worked him as hard as she could. Trying to find who some of the other people who tested were. I feel like I couldn't

tell if I was misremembering or not, because I didn't get a chance to crack the special features, but I feel like on the Blu-ray, there's a screen test, an earlier screen test she had done that's her in a set with Jeremy Sisto. Am I wrong about that? Yeah, because he was very close. Right, which is weird. I like Jeremy Sisto, but this film would not have worked with him in the role. I think he's

too abrasive, actually. I think Jeremy Sisto is a little too strong not have worked with him in the role. I think he's too abrasive, actually. I think Jeremy Sisto is a little too strong a presence. Just kick him while he's down. Fuck, he didn't even get to be in the movie. I like Jeremy Sisto a lot. One time he came into the comic book store I used to work at, and I sold him a bunch of books, and we had a nice talk. We talked about comics.

Well, I think it is sort of important, though, that Jack not overpower Rose. I agree. Yeah, that is true. That's really important. Cameron wanted Jared Leto. That was his number one choice. Jared wouldn't even audition. He would have drowned himself for the role.

He would have fucking, oh, I've got to be in ice for six months. Fucking Jared Leto. How do you feel about Jared? Me? I would not have been into that. Neither of you. No. No.

Even though it was my so-called life. It was his time. Jordan Catalano. But again, too contemporary. I mean, I will give it to Leo. Like, he doesn't look out of place in the film, in the world. Like, I believe that he could. It's more classical.

Yeah. Yeah. Here's some other. Paul Rudd auditioned. His own father was in it. That would have been bad, too. I mean, that would have been my favorite movie of all time. Remember Paul Rudd in Romeo and Juliet, though?

Yeah. Yeah. Because literally, he gets rejected for Leo. Oh my God. He's Paris. He's Paris, yes. Red Tannic, I would be totally on board with. With the astronaut.

Oh my God. Yeah, it's so cute. He's so cute. And then there's that scene where like the fireworks are going off at the party and he turns around and he's like. He's like so excited about the fireworks. I love it. It's like a little preview of later comedy rides.

He does a total red face. His father was an avid Titanic historian, and he reeled off all these technical info at the audition, and apparently they didn't care. Steven Dorff. That would be how I tried to get the role, to be honest. I'd come in with Wikipedia on my phone. I've done that in the past for auditions.

It never works. I'm telling you. But I know everything. Yeah, but I care about this. And they're like, get the fuck out of here. We don't want to pay someone to say shit. Stephen Dorff, I'm seeing over here. Stephen Dorff rejected the part.

Billy Crudup rejected the part. Hugh Grant was offered Cal and turned it down. Yeah, I mean. He would have been an okay Cal. He would have been great. He would have overpowered the movie, though. I think that's the problem. He would have popped too down. Yeah, I mean. He would have been an okay Cal. He would have been great. He would have overpowered the movie, though. Quite possibly. I think that's the problem.

He would have popped too much. Yeah, yeah. Caleb Deschanel, who we talked about on our Jack Reacher podcast. Tested for Jack Dawson? He was the cinematographer and was fired by James Cameron because they disagreed on the lighting. Wow. And Russell Carpenter shot this movie.

He did a beautiful job. He did. It's a gorgeous movie. Yeah, God. Wow, And Russell Carpenter shot this movie. He did a beautiful job. He did. It's a gorgeous movie. Yeah, God, wow, that's fascinating to me. I mean, Leo was so clearly the choice out of all those people you listed.

And it's, you know, it's not just a hindsight 2020 thing. I think some of them are better actors and some of them are worse actors. Oh, she did shit.

I've got it back. I'll take it. Cool. But it is, it's like crazy to think that like he's the one guy who could have been. There's a similar thing around that same time, Independence Day. There was like 25 guys that turned it down before Will Smith.

And the movie wouldn't have worked with any of the other 25 guys. One last piece of trivia. I think Ethan Hawke was close for both Independence Day and Titanic. I think he was considered. One last piece of trivia and let's get back to the plot. On the set of Titanic, Leonardo DiCaprio's pet lizard was run over by a truck. But with some TLC, DiCaprio nursed him back to health. Weren't you guys talking about Terminator?

Pugsley the lizard. He's an iguana. What if he had adopted Pugsley? Wow. What if Leo's lizard was Pugsley? Do you think that Leo's lizard dying was like where he lost his way? Yeah, he never recovered.

Yeah. Yeah. And the last thing Pugsley said to him. Then he's like, I'm going to go be in the beach. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not thinking. What should I do?

And then he turns and the cage is empty. He's like. The last thing Pugsley said to Leo was win an Oscar. And then Leo was like, at all costs. Yeah. I must. I'm sacrificing everything. Okay.

Pugsley. Pugsley. So, guys. That was weird when he said that at the Oscars for The Revenant. He went for Pugsley. Amazingly, I have to press us to move on with the plot. Huh. Even though this is part two of a two-part episode.

Can we make it a three-part? So, they go to dinner. You want to go it a three-part? So they go to dinner. You want to go to a real party? Yeah, they go to the real party. This is my least favorite part of the movie. Oh, I love this part. Okay, go on. Emily just gave me a little side eye.

I'm throwing some side eyes. I'm throwing some shades. I found it tiresome this time watching it, but usually I find it to be fun. See, I like real salt of the earth. Well, this is exactly what I hate about it. That's what I like. I think I talked about it in part one of our podcast.

His fetishization of immigrants, especially Irish immigrants, is so hacky to me. And it was also partly that I lived in Britain and was closer to Irish people. Especially in Britain, you're so attuned to that sort of

top of the morning fucking fiddle and step dancing Irish stuff. Does the score bug you? I actually love the score. It's so corny, but I love it. I mean, I like Horner. He's corny. The Rave Hearts are corny, too. They should, and they should.

And maybe one day they will. Okay, they just high-fived. Nope. I can't take credit for this. I played the score for highlights from the score in my seventh grade orchestra. What did you play, Emily? Unable to Stay and Willing to Leave? I played...

Never an Absolution? Never an Absolution, Take It or See Mr. Murdoch. Great one. That's the... That's the best. Yeah, it's so good. What's the good one? I Played Violin. I think it was a vastly abridged,

simplified score, but it was seventh grade. It was Titanic. Everybody wanted to do this. Did they make you play? I think it's a great score. I think it's beautiful. Oh, no, it was great.

The chorus on it is so good. You know, the sort of voices. Yeah, the synthy voice. And during Never, Unwilling to Stay, Unable to Leave, which is one of my favorite pieces of music, which is when she jumps off the lifeboat, I announced to Joanna, who was watching this movie for the first time with me,

I said, this piece of music is called Unwilling to Stay, Unable to Leave. And she laughed at me, mockingly. In my face. For knowing that. Because I was like, this is a beautiful piece of music, and meanwhile the music is like, doo doo doo.

Wait, which one is this one? I'm going to find it. Play a snippet of it. It's called Unable to Stay, Unwilling to Leave. I don't remember. I don't think we played this. Emily, at this recital, did they make you all play in a sinking ship? No, we didn't have the budget for that one. No, I didn't go to school in Brooklyn. Hey, hey, hey.

West Village at the time. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the very synthy organ stuff. mean it's the intro for uh my heart will go on right like yeah yeah no it it switches when it makes the switch to that is like when you realize oh yeah everybody's gonna die yeah it's like the hopeless moment in the whole progression it's what's playing shut up it's what's playing when the firework

explodes behind him yeah Titanic yeah um it's great I love anyway

and it also has like you know the weird echo-y yeah yeah yeah you know what's a very simple music cue but that's the end that's the end too

right yeah it's also at the end uh a very simple music cue I love he reuses a lot A very simple music cue I love. He reuses a lot. A very simple music cue that really works for me in this movie. The first time you hear it is the first sight of the iceberg.

But that's for the danger cue, which is this very ominous, drawn out like... I did a really bad job approximating it. You really did. Can we sample that later? Remember that great piece of music? All right. I really did. Can we sample that later? Remember that great piece of music? So the romance stuff plays out next after the dinner, right? There's like the dinner upstairs, the whiskeys and brandy, I mean the brandy and cigars, all life is a game of luck.

A lot of great lines up there. Go ahead, Emily. Start from the outside. Then you want to go to a real party. You think you're big strong men uh i thought that was sort of annoying when she goes on point yeah uh yeah uh it's a little lame i feel embarrassed i feel embarrassed for her always in that scene a little bit because you think they're gonna be like wow like you're just like i don't know what the point of that is. You can do stuff too.

Yeah, yeah, too. Anyway, what happens after that? Oh, and then the T-1000 sees them. Spicer Lovejoy. I just love that his first name is Spicer. I don't believe anyone says Spicerack Lovejoy. Spicerack Lovejoy. Spicer.

Spicer Lovejoy. Spicer. I mean, you can't make this shit up. Oh, and then Cal throws a fit and he turns the table over. Oh, right. That scene plays out right because he hears about her going down below decks. He's like, I thought you

would join me tonight, which is very spicy. Speaking of spice. Yeah, he's I didn't even think about that. He's trying to mack on her before they get married which is not cool and she's 17 years old but yeah maybe he's just like look we're on a boat I gave her this giant diamond

he gives her the he already gave her the diamond so I feel like maybe at this point he's just like what but that is actually that's a scene that scared the crap out of me when I was a kid because I had never seen a movie I I was 11, that had any kind of domestic violence theme or anything like that. When he turns the table over, it's really frightening. Now, I guess it seems more ridiculous.

My wife, my wife, or whatever it is he'd like. Upsetting. But I like that Cameron sticks with her crying and like trying to blow it off to the maid is like we had an accident. But also trying to clean up. And trying to clean up. And then the maid won't let her clean up. Which is very.

The maid gets some shit right then and then right after. Right after. Because there's the corset scene where Frances Fisher, who's her mom. What's her mom's name? Ruth. Comes in and she's like, get the fuck out of here, maid. Yeah. And the corset is punishment

thing very very real also like i mean any any girl who grew up watching a lot of historical dramas like wanted a corset anyway and so i think in that scene you're like oh maybe it would suck yeah right your mom did it like and that's i mean i guess we need that scene it's where the mom's reminding her like look we may be old money but we we're not rich, and you've got to do this. Now, okay, I'm curious about the scene for you guys, because I remember as a kid when she starts crying about being a seamstress and, like, we'll lose all your things and stuff. Oh, sure, yeah. That seems very, she doesn't seem very sympathetic at all. You're like, oh, this lady crying, like, what's she, but, like, I think now watching it, I think she's a little more sympathetic.

I think the film does a great job by making her both a villain, you know, but totally illustrating her like fully limited perspective. Yeah. Like she is not a person who is evil. Like Cal's kind of evil. You know, he's like a mustache twirling villain. She's literally just like she just doesn't understand anything. And she can't conceive of a life that doesn't involve exactly and like and the crucial moment is later obviously when she's like i hope the steerage people won't be on the lifeboat with me and oh bother shut up yeah and uh like that's like the final breaking point

they never interact again no that's it that's like she and her mother there's some really good reaction shots for Frances Fisher. Frances Fisher's a very good actress. Yeah. So good in this, yeah. There's the shot

towards the end of the movie and she was married to Eastwood, right? Wasn't she? Is that right? He's been married like 50 times. She at least?

Yeah, she was married to him for five years. Yeah. No, not married. Partner. Okay. I think they had a child together.

Francesca. Boy. Francesca. Boy. Francesca Eastwood. She is known for starring in Mrs. Eastwood and Company, an e-reality series. Oh, right. That thing. She is a frequent figure in Blind Addams. Oh, interesting.

That's the only way I know of anything about her. No, I was going to say, I think limited perspective is a good term. No, I was going to say, I think limited perspective is a good term. I do feel like a lot of movies that want to have adversary characters who aren't quite villains, that's a really useful tool because I'm kind of against movies where it's just someone who's evil for the sake of being evil. Right. And it's always kind of more sympathetic if you have someone who thinks they're doing the right thing and can convey it and they just don't understand the way the world actually works. No.

Having a bunch of people who think they're doing the right thing versus somebody who's like actually trying to just be the level. Yeah. I mean, just but what is what what Cameron has struck on that is so clever and then a movie like A Night to Remember didn't really strike as much as that's a very cool movie is the idea like the mall idea. They're all stuck together. Even if they're separated out, like, it's still, he can go up the staircase, like, it's not hard for these people to interact with each other. Right. And, like,

that's why, like, you almost understand why Cal is so phenomenally evil, because, like, when else, like, his only other interactions with poor people would be, like, I put my trust in you and shaking their hands. David just put fake money in my hand. Monopoly money he brought just for that joke. Do you think, what do you think,

if there was a modern remake of Titanic, like the way that Shakespeare companies sometimes do, the hip new take on Two Gentlemen of Rome. Yeah, sure, right. It's set in a Depression-era carnival, but it's Titanic. No, but it would be set right now. What would the real party be? Oh, like where he takes her from the stuffy penthouse bar or whatever.

Where does he take her to? There's nothing. I don't know. What's authentic anymore? There's no space to do anything like that. They wouldn't give you a free rec room on any kind of ship to go have like a- Well, again, you've been on a cruise, so you know better than I. Were you in steerage?

No. I had my own mirrors. Wow. I don't even know how a cruise works. You're big-timing us with your mirrors. Is it the same way? Is there like first class, second class, third class? Like is there that-

There are definitely different classes of room. Sure. I mean, you pay more, you get a better room. Yeah. And you can, I mean, higher up the deck room with the balcony. Well, I should just, my boyfriend performs on a cruise. Humble brag. So he was like, no, we didn't have to pay for it.

That's very nice. So that's my, and of course, of of course getting on a cruise ship for the first time in my life when I'm 30 I immediately am like oh this is just like Titanic. Take her to sea Mr. Murdoch. That's the first thing I think of. I'm like let's go to the front of the ship and let's stand at the bow and of course you can't do that.

They won't let you. There's a rope. You can't go. I imagine that you probably couldn't go all the way to the front on the Titanic maybe I imagine that that's a little ahistorical it might be who knows

also if you could it would be full of people who are looking over a lot of people would want to do that right if anyone was allowed everyone would do it

that's the place they're going to want to look is the front yeah it's so cool and exciting and like you wouldn't be able to have a private moment and kiss somebody

and fly wait where's Jack's like hey do you want to hear the spot I hang out all the time it's the's like, hey, do you want to hear this? This spot I hang out all the time. It's the front of the ship. This is like my favorite place. Good seeing. No one cheats that real low key.

But actually, great views, honestly. It's right around then that they do the, I'm flying, right? When is that? It's after the- Is that the first kiss? I just watched this first, no, the first kiss doesn't come for a while. So he gets mad at her. Mom gets mad at her.

They have the church scene. Oh, yeah. And they sing for those in peril on the sea, which they really did sing on the service. We should note that, like, despite some supposed inconsistencies, Cameron was obsessed with period detail. Yes. Like, the china is exactly. The meal is what was served that night. If you look at paintings of the Grand Staircase,

he's trying to get everything exact. And you know the only change he made for the 3D re-release in the Blu-ray, right? Well, he added a third dimension? Yes, but I mean, for the remastering, right? The Blu-ray, there was one change. Oh, the Milky Way, right. He changed the constellations. Because of fucking bummer town.

Mildegras Tyson was like, actually on that night the stars were like this. Oh my God. So he changed it. Yeah, that's the only thing. He was like, keeping all the effects intact. And apparently Katie was telling me, RIP Katie, no, no, we love you Katie. She's still alive.

Yeah, I know, I was just joking. I felt bad the second I said it. It was funny, negative 5.1. But Katie was just telling me before that on the commentary he rants about like, well, apparently the stars are wrong. I mean, maybe I'll fix that. But the commentary is attached to the fixed movie. So you see him complaining about something.

In the background, you can hear him punching Neil deGrasse Tyson in the face. Under the table, go, Jim, stop punching me. Okay, so Jack tries to go see her at church. I don't know why. Yeah, that's actually a weird move by him. But it's very much like the club thing of like, I was here yesterday. And they're like, no, you can't come anymore. He gets his 20.

Lovejoy gives him the 20 then, yeah. And then he corners her after in the gym. Right, he pulls her into the gym. And is like, hey, we should be together. You're the most amazing girl I've ever met. Which is like a weak line. Like, do better. He also says you're no walk in the park I've ever met, which is like a weak line. Do better. He also says you're no walk in the park.

First he nags her a little bit. Jack's being kind of a creep. Pulling her into the gym? I don't know, man. And you're right. His pitch at that point, I forgot that it happened and when I was watching it, I was like, oh, this is kind of flat. It's not a good pitch because it's like

I know how the world works I don't have anything to offer you but you're awesome but also you're not that awesome. But maybe you could be awesome. Yeah and also maybe that spitting thing? Yeah I tell you how to spit don't you owe me? Yeah it's very weak

anyway she she says no and they part ways. I forget what changes her mind. What changes her mind? It's some interaction she has with the Richie Pants. I also forget. I mean, there are lots of shots of her where you see everybody else talking around her, and she just stays a mile-long stare or whatever.

I don't... A thousand-yard stare, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of what... I'm racking my brain. I don't... Thousand Yards Dare, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of what... I'm racking my brain. She just like went and opened up an issue of Tiger Beat and saw Leonardo DiCaprio on the cover.

She was like, oh, right. He is kind of a big deal right now. He's kind of a big deal. I mean, I don't know. I don't want it to look like a status play, but... So, but then, for whatever reason, he's standing on the bow again his favorite spot and she comes up and it's like i changed my mind i'm gonna i'm not i don't know i'm trying i'm reading the script right now oh boy oh my god that took forever david okay so we should talk a

little bit about i'm flying jack i'm flying because it is so um it is one of the the legacy because it is one of the legacy scenes of this movie. I also feel like a part of why- Oh, no, it's right. I remembered it. I'm glad I looked at the script. And by the way, I just put Control-F Jim. There is a previous scene that they cut in which someone explains the gym and is like,

here is the gym. We have all the machines. No, she goes to lunch with her mother. Her mother's like blathering on about all the invitations we had to send them back and she sees a little girl yeah who's being made to sit upright and like put her napkin in her lap properly and all that and then she like gives her that that's the thousand yard stare yeah and uh and that's when it clicks for her and then she uh Also, I watched, it was in that scene and I wrote it down because there is some kind of crappy CGI in that scene, in the background.

And I think you see it throughout a little bit. Sometimes they do these sort of weird foggy looking animations of people in the background. Oh, like walking in the background? There's one in particular, there's one moment that stands out to me, but I'll get to that when we get to that. Yeah. What I was going to say about the jack and flying moment is like i think i there was a bit of a struggle for me to like accept this movie because by the time i had seen it i had already

like digested most of the movie through osmosis like in pop culture where like there were so many different elements of this film that were parodied rather than like a lot of famous movies it's like one scene or one line or one image and it was like every part of this movie became iconic and even like supporting characters sure and i remember like snl doing like well this sketch is just a parody of the bill paxton stuff right and this sketch is just a parody of like the flying moment or whatever you know so like watching it for the first time like eight years after it come out or whatever it was kind of like a checklist of like, okay, there's that thing I know,

there's that thing I know. Yeah, you were a little out of it. Yeah, and like when I watch it now and I've like, you know, come to like be able to watch the movie for what it is, none of that sticks out to me other than the flying moment. Like when I watched that, just because that moment became such a visual signifier

and then everyone fucking repeated it and everything for like five years. It always takes me out of the movie to no fault of the movie's own where I'm just like, oh, here's that thing. Here's that thing they got to get to. I'm not going to do it because we don't have enough time, but I wish I could read you Cameron's like stage directions essentially for the flying scene. It is some goofy shit. Can you read a little bit? No. A little bit. But there is this goofy shit. Can you read a little bit? No. A little bit.

But there is this, yeah. Give me one sentence. I mean, I do find it to be romantic. I think so too. I think it's a lovely scene. I think it's very romantic. Yeah. It's just, it is silly as hell.

It's tough because it's been. I think the. Yeah. I think the only thing is that she, it's at this point in the movie, she said Jack so many times. Yeah. She does say Jack a lot. I forget who it is. I think Jezebel maybe did a countdown of who says each other's name more in the movie.

And I think he actually says Rose more. Because by the time the ship is sinking, all they're really doing is barking each other's names. All right. Here's the one little line I'll read. the ship is sinking, all they're really doing is barking each other's names. Alright, here's the one little line I'll read. Jack and the ship seem to merge into one force of power and optimism, lifting her,

booing her forward on a magical journey, soaring onward into the night, into a night without fear. That actually sounds like erotic fan fiction. That sounds like someone wrote that on there. She's kissing the ship. Is Jack fucking a portal? What's going on here? We should know.

That is when you have that dissolve. You have the dissolve of it back to the wreck, and you do cut back to Gloria Stewart. And that's the first time since the beginning. I think so. There might have been one cut. But that's what feels like the halfway point also. Right, because she says that's the last night.

That's the last time Titanic saw the sun. So maybe that's where we should end part two of our Titanic three parter um so at that point what okay so they go back

to pretty quickly she's like yo paint me without my clothes on yeah cause they're at dinner

you have to pop me like one of your cast girl no no they're not at dinner no I'm saying like the others are at dinner

they're not at dinner oh wait wait Emily wanted to make this clear it's very true I think very important okay No, no, they're not at dinner. No, I'm saying like the others are at dinner. They're not at dinner. Oh, right, right. Emily wanted to make this clear. This is the other thing I noticed this time. It's very true. I think very important. Okay. Jack and Rose skip dinner.

Okay, Ben's walked into the room. All right. Okay. Okay. Ben has walked into the room. He's put on headphones before saying anything. He handed me a drawing of me naked wearing the heart of the ocean. This is supposed to be me or you?

That's you, baby. Yeah, that's what I thought. The glasses are a little round, but other than that, I think the likeness is really good. So we'll post this online. It's pretty good. But this is- The attention to detail in the hand. Yeah.

Look at his use of color. I'll post this online. It's pretty good. But this is. The attention to detail in the hand. Look at his use of color. I'll say this. Shadow work too is really on point. I'll say this and I'm a little embarrassed to admit this. He got my chest hair almost exactly right. Wow. Because it's like just six isolated strands. Why do your eyes look like bug alien eyes?

Well, because I'm trying to look like a French girl. I'm trying to give the alluring kind of calm hither. All right. You're so keyed into your life spirit. Yeah, it's the moment right before Jack says, like, relax your face. Yeah. He's catching me at my least relax. I'm stressed out.

I'm like, oh, fuck yeah. Oh, my God. I want to get back to Emily's point because it is very true. They do not eat dinner. They don't eat dinner. Okay, but can I- This happens. And also- 100 comedy points to Ben. Go on. They do not eat dinner. They don't eat dinner. This happens and also at this point

100 comedy points to Ben. Go on. At this point because it is the last night of the Titanic you can start to count down hours pretty like realistically. And so it's like oh how do they have time to do all this stuff before they hit the iceberg. Well they didn't

go to dinner. They skipped out on that and they skipped out on all that important nourishment. That's what I was going to say. Can you imagine running around that ship on an empty stomach? Running around later on an empty stomach. They are trudging through water. They're climbing up the ship. They must be so hungry.

Axing handcuffs. Wouldn't it be good? It's like the famous thing about the cook who survived, even though he went into the water, because he was drunk. So he was like warmed up? He was warmed up. Is he supposed to be the guy who's at the top of the ship with him at the end?

Who kind of looks like Chef Boyardee? Yeah. So that was like the... I don't know if it's that much of an urban legend or if it's real, but that was supposed to be like... I'm looking at the final meal that they missed out on. Guys, do you want to hear? Oysters on the half shell. You had two soups.

Like nice bouillabaisse. A beef soup, yeah. Beef soup. And a cream of barley soup. A cold asparagus salad. God, all the food looks so bad. Filet mignon. Okay.

With chicken. What? Where? In relation to the filet mignon okay uh with chicken oh what where in relation to the fly inside next to so it's like a turf and turf yeah i guess so uh and then lamb with mint sauce or duck with applesauce three meats yeah or sirloin of beef with red wine get the fuck out of here and then some kind of punch. Oh, it looks like a sherbet or something. Yeah, this was a palate cleanser. Then roasted squab.

What? Then poached salmon. Then pate, which you would kind of think earlier, but I guess back then they did. And then something called Waldorf pudding, which is raisins and apples. That's so much stuff. I would have just gone back to my room, eaten a Clif Bar. Even second class had a decent dinner. Okay, so they missed out on all that

and I think that's very key. That also is like why they had so much time, why everybody was distracted. That's why they have time to propose a nude sketch, do the nude sketch, have sex in a car, like do all this stuff, right? And they had about one meals worth of sex

I would say I was trying to time it when I was watching it this time but I was like that's about three courses they exert themselves so hard

yeah that's dessert included I think yeah so anyway that's my theory that's my new observation oh good well I am always

kind of conscious of like in movies when people don't do a lot absolutely or like how Jack never went to the bathroom on 24 and it started to get like kind of alarming. He's just really constipated. He takes Imodium at the beginning of every day.

I just want to point out, Ben walked into this room, handed me the picture, put on headphones, and then grabbed Katie Rich's book and just read through it for like five minutes. Well, that's interesting. Are you going to stick with us, Ben? Are levels good? Everything's good. I just wanted to give the drawing. Oh, of course.

And then I'll come back because I have stuff to talk about when it comes to the band. Okay. All right. So Ben's leaving. We're a little head. Anyway, that's just a fun thing. You sound a little drunk, Ben. I'm getting sick.

That's it. That is it. Wow. All right. So let's sick. That's it. That is it. Alright, so let's talk about the drawing scene. I want you to draw me like one of your French girls. I can't remember if I asked you this on the podcast or off the podcast, but is this the last

PG-13 movie to have boobs in it? I have no idea. Something's got to give. It's a time limit. Really? Something's got to give there's it's a time limit oh yeah yeah something's got to give uh there's you can like show like three seconds or whatever it has to be non-ironic brief it's considered brief nudity yeah you can like have like a flash but you can't have like nudity in sex right it has to be a non-ironic context and also it's interesting that like most of the shots of her naked you only can see one out of the two boobs

which i wonder if that was some kind of thing right it's like partial brief nudity yeah instead of uh yeah instead of anything that could be called partial frontal i don't know i remember like uh like amongst the boys in my grade at the time that made this movie a big deal because it was like when you pg-13 movie where you can see one boob. This was certainly the first film I saw in a cinema with nudity in it. I can't think of it. Right? I don't know if this is true for you guys. Fifth Element? Oh yeah but I didn't

see that in theater. Something that's gotta give is the only one I can think of. When you Google this mostly it's fearful parents trying to make sure their kids don't see boobs. I mean, who could imagine? Yeah.

Anyway, but what do we think of the drawing scene, guys? A fairly iconic scene. That's fun. I like the way the score drops out and it becomes the piano. I want to say I think that it is pretty progressive on the part of Jimmy C. To do a... I think... Well, no, wait the part of Jimmy C to do a, I think, well,

no, wait. Yeah. Terminator was R. Yeah. Oh yeah. So like, this is,

I believe his first is true lies of PG 13. I want to say that's R, but maybe I'm wrong. I think nowadays you would have a movie like Terminator two or term or first Terminator that was very action oriented. Lots of violence. No, it was an action-oriented, lots of violence, lots of shooting and stuff. And that would be the thing

that you could sneak into PG-13. Sure. But something like Titanic that has a sex scene and it has a nude scene and everything, that would be the thing that got bumped to R.

Uh-huh. I think it's good and interesting that the thing that maybe, like, I don't know, it's just like humanizing violence over sex. Right, he did the opposite

he did the maybe correct progressive which I think is good yeah according to what I'm reading there are some of the

later movies to have had breasts in them Supernova with Robin Tunney okay and Across the Universe has some nudity

oh yeah those are PG-13s yeah that's also similar where you only see one boob another movie which I remember seeing with nudity, and Fifth Element's a good one, is also Nell.

Oh, yeah. Which also has kind of non-sexual nudity. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell you, the Someone's Gotta Give one always kind of bummed me out because it felt like they gave it a PG-13 7R because she was old. It always felt like the kind of implication was like- Oh, sure, that it was non-threatening nudity or something.

It's non-sexual because she's an older lady. get you because that seems like a little more like prolonged and pronounced but it's again it's it's a goofy scene brief and they cut yeah and she goes yeah so i don't know did this scene have a huge impact on people i almost feel like it's yeah okay yeah oh yeah definitely hi sorry my lips are super trapped that's it's understandable because i definitely i guess I was... I don't remember coming out of there thinking top five moments. Number one, make a drawing.

Well, it was a thing that was... I mean, I remember very clearly there was an article in the newspaper, the local newspaper. The newspaper. The newspaper. The newspaper. That was about, oh, like titanic is very popular

among tweens but is it too raunchy sure sure and so there was like this cartoon of like it was like i remember it was like leonardo dicaprio with a bar of soap in his mouth and was like bubbling and then like and then like kate winslet like like but like the clouds of smoke from the smokestacks of the Titanic were covering her. And it was like, oh, this is the raunchy new movie all the kids are into. Okay. I mean, it was for sure

the first time I ever saw nudity. I think so, for sure. I don't even think in a home rental or whatever. I'd seen nudity, but... I've seen rated R movies, but not ones with nudity in them. See, I think my first with uh not ones with nudity see i think my first was shakespeare in love the following year sure and i remember that being a big deal where it was like oh my god i'm gonna get to see a movie with nudity because it's about shakespeare

right like that felt like and that's the movie that is kind of ridiculous um because that it's rated r it's only rated r because you see yeah because of the nudity there's no real swearing or anything else in the movie that's particularly objectionable. It's in like a prelude to a sex scene. It's like the scene of them undressing, but there's not actually a scene of them having sex, you know? As I remember it, I have not seen it since

that day. Because she's unbinding. I remember that. I remember the unbinding. You see her naked more. I remember the unbinding, and then I remember her waking up in bed next to him. No, but in between, you cut to Imelda Staunton sitting outside, remember? Oh, yeah. She's all freaked out, because she's like, oh, this isn't good.

Yeah. Anyway, Titanic. Oh, right, Titanic. Titanic. Podcastic. So she's, also we should note the movie's one F-bomb is spoken by Beardo. Right. It's like a total throwaway.

He's got the thing in his fucking hands. I'm sorry. His hands. It's totally just what we just did with Charlie. He's mad at Ismay for wanting to go fast. That's what he said. That is good. I mean, I give Jim two comedy points for the drawing scene, and then it cuts back to everyone.

Like, it fades from her eyes. Oh, it's a great cutback. To old Gloria Foster's eyes you morph her eye into wrinkle eye it's not just a fade too it's like an actual it's a morph it's a transform and then it cuts to all of them on the edge of their seats and they're just like this you know they've got their

chins in their palms and then they're like so I mean she's like no he was a gentleman Jack was a perfect gentleman always and then we went into a car and we fucked so hard that it steamed up the windows. We went five decks down into the cargo area, which must have been freezing. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about that.

So maybe that's where all the steam comes from. Maybe that's why the steam, because even just a relative amount of heat. I don't think it would take that much to steam up a car, even if it wasn't cold. But when they cut inside, they're so sweaty, too. Emily, I just said that with such definitive, we're, even if it wasn't cold. But when they cut inside, they're so sweaty, too. Emily, I just said that with such definitive, we're just going to move right through that. No,

I want to talk about the car, though. That's my other thing I text. I've been texting really annoyingly to David. That's crazy. I love texting with Emily, my good pal. I think maybe Cameron is trying to infer that they are the first teens to have sex in a car. Fuck in a car. I mean, how old is it?

Great American tradition. Love that. I mean, like, when is the car invented? Like eight years earlier? They were still figuring out things you could do in it. Yep. Yep. I mean, it's like the first time both of them probably ever came in contact with a car.

She rode in on a car, that's true. But when would she have had an opportunity? Yeah. To bang in a car? She's a 17 year old woman of high birth. One doubts she has. This is a great point, is that having sex in cars

culture becomes a thing when teenagers are allowed to drive by themselves. It's like the rebel without a cause days. Yeah. Whether you have your own car, you're able to take out your parents' car. Back then, like a car was such a prime piece of property.

Yeah. And like a guy needed to like walk in front of it with a flag or whatever. Right. Like it was like completely. Right. Like even if your parents had a car, you couldn't be like, Hey,

can I take it out for a quick spin? We have to call the mayor. We have to tell him you're going to take it out. Oh, wait. I want to look up the car because the car is real. That's a real thing. There was one car on board. You can go into the car and turn on the lights in Titanic Adventure out of time.

That's pretty cool. And it's also real. It's real that when they found the car on the bottom of the ocean, it was filled with cum. Everyone fucked in the car. Griffin, it's not good. Even the ocean couldn't wipe out with cum. Everyone fucked in the car. Griffin, it's not good. Even the ocean couldn't wipe out the cum. I want to say, just to talk right over that, I like that he shows you the car being loaded on

at the beginning of the movie. You see it on the crane. I know you're trying to think about it. And then they cut to a guy going, I sure do hope no cum gets in that car. I just upholstered it. Well, again, I should say, Emily really started this all off

by talking about Rose's STDs. Thank you. I wasn't the dirty boy for once. For once, I wasn't a little stinker. Now, I will say, when I was a teenager, I was someone who was fairly unabashedly into the movie, even though it was very uncool for me to be into the movie, certainly among most of the people I knew. Certainly among the boys knew i guess okay not to be binary about this but you know

teenagers are often binary without even yeah and mcdonald's boys get hot wheels and girls get barbies sure um that's what donald's were even i could not so goes the nation right griffin even i at like age 14 could not take it on board uh the sex scene. I thought it was so stupid. And I didn't even know what was supposed to happen in there. But the shot of her putting her hand up on the glass. It's really silly. I was like, wait, what are the logistics? Why would she put her hand up on the glass?

It's so dramatic. No, I don't know. It's so dramatic. And then when they cut inside, they're both sweating so much. They don't have the card. It's closed. I know. It's closed. It is closed. There's so dramatic. And then when they cut inside, they're both sweating so much. They don't have the cut. It's closed. I know. It's closed.

It is closed. There's no AC. There's no AC. And also, that is leather. That's a warm. Maybe crack a window. I'm telling you, he gets really damp in this movie. It's a damp.

When he starts getting wet, it's that scene. It would just be funny if then we saw Kate Winslet getting up and we just heard like and she lifted from the leather. Yeah, no, I think that was widely parodied, right? That was very widely parodied. It was, yeah. Also, but also just like, I mean, the thing that I do like that is sort of realistic about this is just the put your hands on me check.

Oh, yeah. And you know what he does? He grabs her boob. He goes straight for the boob. He's fucking 17 years old. What else is he supposed to do? That feels very young. It's a well-observed moment.

She basically takes his hand and puts it on her boob. Yeah. Like, yeah, you know. Yeah. Come on, Jack. Here, on the boob. This is what I meant. Don't touch my nose.

You literally drew this in charcoal. Come on, Jack. Why are you rubbing my ear? Hand on boob. That's the word that I meant. Don't touch my nose. You literally drew this in charcoal. Come on, Jack. Why are you rubbing my ear? Hand on boob, please. I do think it's interesting that the hand on the window moment is sort of like a reappropriation of a classic horror iconography. Yeah, sure, sure. It's not as like the victim trying to get out and it's the blood on the hand because

it even has the sort of smearing of the fog on the window. Well, the funny thing is, like, it actually serves a plot purpose because that's what the guy is searching for them then to see. They see the imprint. Which is why I think he did it. But it also is, like, I think there's sort of, because that is so coded in our minds of, like, that's the last thing the victim does when they're trying to get out

is you see the hand running across the thing. But then they'd be looking for him for murder or something. Right, well, you know. But I also think when the actual imprint is made, we as the audience go like, ooh. Because it's like, we've never seen that handprint and had it be a good thing. Like, oh, looks like some killer sex going on there.

Or like, someone's dying. All right. All right. What? You don't want to talk about sex more? That's not my problem. More like, we got to go to the sinking of the ship. We got to get to the iceberg.

It happens right after this. This is the scene. They come out on the deck. They're canoodling. And then these foolhardy guys. They're very cute. I like those guys. Yeah, they're like, oh, check it out.

It's kissing. Hey, check it out. It's kissing. And then he's like, they sure look warmer than us. And he's like, well, that's what it takes to be warm like no homo over here up in the crow's nest and then just like that James Cameron's like

this is why you shouldn't be homophobic that's the lesson if these guys were a little more progressive they would have seen that iceberg they spent 15 minutes explaining that they weren't gay and they missed the iceberg that's my theory Emily Emily. You think it's

a reflection of the sky. I think it's the patriarchy and heteronormative behavior. This is my favorite sequence in the movie. They hit the iceberg. Which is the whole way he communicates and it's kind of what Katie wanted us to talk about. That way where it's like, they see the iceberg.

They ring. You cut down to the deck where I believe you mentioned it off, Mike? Or did you mention it on where it's like they see the iceberg, they ring. You cut down to the deck where I believe you mentioned it off mic or did you mention it on where he goes like, hello? Oh, yes. Iceberg, right? Thank you. It's great. Protocol. And then so that, you know, they go to full and you see the end.

You cut down to the turbine room and you see that guy go to full and start like moving this shit. Then you cut down to the coal room, see them like the coal back in, and then you go back up, see the turbines moving. It's so perfect. But here's the thing, all this stuff could have been boring, even if it was shot really excitingly, except at this point, we've spent some time on the ship and we don't want it to sink.

I hope, I want to know every single way that this might not sink. We've seen the coal room, we've seen the turbine room. That's a beautiful touch when they run through the coal room and it's like, you're not supposed to be down here when they're just trying to get away. At the time it just feels like, oh, here's another little slice of the thing. But it's like, no, but later you're going to need to know the coal room. You're going to need to understand

the layout of it. I think especially to a modern audience, the idea that the only way the fucking ship worked was that you had all these people in the bowels just shoveling coal 24 hours a day, which is crazy. They were well paid, too, but they would kill themselves all the time, apparently. It's a horrible job.

But then I just love that. And then, I mean, the fact that he built that real turbine room, and I assume some of it is embellished with CGI, but the sight of the turbines shuddering to a halt and then going backwards. Just the idea of he really wants you to understand how they tried to avoid the iceberg. And that's like, you know, this was the most expensive movie ever made at that point in time. And a lot of it was the sets and how big the sets were. And there's some digital trickery in terms of expanding them a little bit. And Victor Garber demanded $40 million and got it.

That was a big thing. Yeah. And also asked them to CGI him. He was the first mocap performer. Yeah, totally a hologram. Right. Which was they just figured out David Morris. This was right after Context. I'm not returning to CGI him. He was the first mocap performance. Yeah, totally a hologram. Right. Which was they just figured out David Morris. This was right after Context.

I'm not returning to that bit. I'm returning to that bit. We have to return to Titanic. But, and, you know, there's some digital stitching together of like, oh, here are two sets that we're going to make seamless into one thing, you know, in the shot,

the thing combines, whatever. But Cameron has often said, like, today if he made the movie, he wouldn't have built that much of the ship. He would have made it digitally. Right. And it's just like, what a fucking loss this would be. Yeah.

Like, you look at these sets and they're unbelievable. That's what's so incredible. I mean, we'll get to it, but the boat breaking, it's a real boat. He built the real thing. They broke it. It's crazy. And it counts because the two hours leading up to that, you're like, God, this set's unbelievable.

Right. So that when the boat breaks, you feel as bad about the set breaking. Oh, it's so pretty! It's like, you just built this stuff! It's the paint! You can still smell the fresh paint! All this china! You had an art grip, an art PA, had to go out and buy all the china.

Sorry. I fucked up. I said art grip. I should have said art PA first. So, the boat starts sinking. It's just bad news. It just sucks. It's just so good. It's the most visceral, muscular disaster filmmaking. I know it's hacky to say that

The Last Hour is the best hour of Titanic and of course it wouldn't be like you guys point out if they hadn't built up the geography of the boat. The emotional stakes of everyone on the boat. But don't you guys like it? Oh, well, yeah. Well, I mean, it's incredible. It's that weird foreboding

thing where it's like, oh, the first class people are like, oh, I guess they're making us put on our life jackets. How weird. Oh, I love that. And meanwhile, downstairs there's panic and total chaos. They're running out. Yeah, yeah. Well, and this is, you know, it is very harrowing. I mean, this whole section of the movie because it's about when sort of like civility goes out the window and, you know, it is very harrowing. I mean, this whole section of the movie, because it's about when sort of like civility goes out the window.

And, you know, these sort of like structures are still there. But also, yeah, the idea that the water literally takes the steerage first, though, is such a clear metaphor for what he's saying. This is a movie. This metaphors are very broad and very clear. But that doesn't mean they're any less like. I don't think you're supposed to say the word steerage anymore. Oh, wow. Sorry.

You're supposed to say steerage American. But they say steerage so much time, so many times in this movie. Yeah, it's like, because it's meant to be derogatory. Really? Yeah. Oh, because you're like a cow. Yeah. Right, I just figured out what steerage means. That's why Rose's mom is like, oh,

how are the accommodations in steerage? Yeah, she's not being very nice when she says that. I was just going to say, this is like oh how are the accommodations in steerage she's not being very nice when she says that I was just going to say this is like the section of the movie where really like the chips are down and you see how like ruthless people can be to each other you know if you remove like the context of like polite society and all of that

amongst classes and it's like harrowing and there's one clip I asked Ben to pull that for me like encapsulates like how scary this movie gets and sort of like a moral horror movie. So, Ben, could you play that clip? Pow! Someone said lock the gates. I just sank my ship. Wait, somebody said lock the gates. I just sank my ship. Wait, somebody said lock the gates.

You could hear it. I heard it. I didn't hear it. Is that the bit you were setting up? Pow! So who were your ships growing up? What were you, the Queen Victoria, or what were you? QE 2.

I used to work the door at the QE 2. Great job. Thank you, Griffin. I did a work the door at the QE2. Great job. Thank you, Griffin. I did a lot of setup on that bit. Ben and I had to go through, find the clip, earmark it, convert it. That was fantastic. Pal. A lot of gates being locked.

We should note. And a lot of drama in the last chunk of this movie stems from trying to unlock the gates, which is hard. Which is hard to do. Much harder than locking the gates. We need a lot of guys. unlock the gates, which is hard. Which is hard to do. Much harder than locking the gates. You need a team. You need a lot of guys. Lock the gates!

It is amazing how many action scenes he gets out of a boat sinking. You know what I mean? Because the movie is just like, now it's just small set piece after small set piece going around the ship. Like diamond cut. Yeah, because they're...

Perfect. I'm trying to think of something. Even just trying to... When she goes to find Jack small set piece after small set piece like going around the ship like diamond cut yeah cause like they're I'm trying to think of something even just trying to when she goes to find Jack and she has to chop him out of his handcuffs that is in it's own like that's just like a weird piece of good like small scale little intimate like struggle and then it also

sets them back on the clock so now they have like you know they're up against but it's also it has that brilliant detail of him being like, take a practice swing, and she hits it. He's like, take another one. She's way off, and he's like, all right, let's just do this. Hit the same spot, and she misses. Yeah, and there is that magic of even though I remember in the theater,

still to this day I remember being kind of tense about that scene. Obviously, you know she's not going to hack his arm off. That would be kind of amazing, though. I mean, because she could still get out she just like buried it in his shoulder that scene is always the one that makes me the most tense while watching yeah yeah it's just contained like yeah and lovejoy's such a dick i love him sitting at the table and rolling the bullet down and being like you know i think his ship's gonna sink see you later punch Punch. I mean, I just can't stop thinking through the entire

last hour about how cold the water is. That is the thing that is like the unspoken thing running throughout it that makes it tense. It's because you're just like, oh, it would feel like knives. Right. And there is that one great moment where, because Jack hasn't been in the water yet because he's been handcuffed and then she frees him and he gets in and he immediately goes, Jesus, that's

cold. Jesus. Which is great. They also, like the film shifts to like a very blue color palette after being like gold for most of the movie. And Kate Winslet's skin shifts to a very blue color palette. We should mention that Jim Cameron beat the shit out of her with this movie. I mean, like she was almost drowned. Like she almost got hypothermia. All those shots of her being like swept along hallways like by the water. The chase scene when it's flooding in the hallway and it's up to a foot from the screen, that is my nightmare.

That's bad. Can I say something really creepy? No. And every time I watch this movie, I have the same thought and I'm like, oh, fuck. What? My crush on Kate Winslet grows the more hypothermic she gets in this movie. Oh, that's bizarre. Right? You're strange. That. Oh, that's bizarre. Right?

You're strange. That is weird, right? Yes. Like, the more, like, cold and pale. Well, I mean, the more she looks like she's in, like, a Nine Inch Nails music video. Like, that's the thing. It's very 90s appropriate. It is very 90s.

She does get more 90s and goth. Yeah. And sort of way fish and, yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, good for you. Well, we have that out of the way that's now on the record Ben is

storming around oh he's walking back in okay Ben walks in with a sigh immediately like a hunchback a heavy sigh okay

what do you want to talk about Ben are you here I want to talk about the band okay talk about the band I forgot that part and I want to just add my two cents I love the band the band. Okay, talk about the band. I want to just add my two cents.

I love the band. The band is the only thing that makes me cry now. Really? It really works for me too. So do you not like the band? That was like the thing that I was always like,

I would get caught up thinking about it. I was a band kid and I was like, what was your instrument? It's a quartet. It's not a band. Well,

you guys have a real rivalry on a macro level. It's violins. It's a quartet. It's not a band. It's a string quartet. You guys have a real rivalry. On a macro level, it's the band. It's violinists. Is it just violinists? And there's a cellist. It's a string quartet. It's a string quartet. Two violinists, a viola, and a cello.

Was there not a French horn? No. What was your instrument? It's so horrible. If you're like, you're running for your life, and then this French horn, this mournful French horn

pierces through the night air. There's just one guy with a tuba who just goes straight to the bottom. All right. What was your band? I want to know what your instrument was. Trumpet. Of course. All right.

So you were obsessed with the quartet. Well, I just, I would always be like. Play songs that they were supposedly playing on the night air. I get the captain going down with the ship. I get the poor people sinking with the ship. Yeah, fuck that. Who cares? All that shit makes sense to me.

Right. If you're in the fucking band, all right, like, you don't get paid that much. Yeah. Like, all right, sure, you're the captain, second in charge. You're a fucking second or fourth chair violin player. You're telling me to be like, well, I love music and I'm going to die in a cold grave. Fuck that shit. And the worst part is they had just signed a record deal.

When they got back to America, they had a 15 album deal. They did. Interscope. That is true. Sorry. Island Def Jam. I broke the momentum of this. So we're at an hour and 20 minutes.

But I will say, I mean, I'm glad you brought it up even though we're a little ahead of it. But I will say, the line. Good shade, good shade. Emily and Ben are punching each other in the face. I feel like Emily and Ben had an awkward interaction in Speed Racers. I like the rivalry. What? Really? I think so. I can't remember.

No. Maybe not. I don't know. Well, anytime you're here, Emily, I can't talk on the mic. Oh, because every time I'm here, there's four people here. We've never actually- Well, next time, no, no. You were the only-

Of course, Reawaken. On Podcast Reawaken, there was just the three of us. For this, maybe because I get to pick a movie, do you want to be my guest? I never get to bring a guest. Yeah, sure. You're inviting Emily to be on the next Ben's Choice? It's a good call. I want to know.

I actually am looking forward to this because I'm pretty sure whatever you pick is a movie I haven't seen, so I'll have to watch it for the first time. Because I had not seen Fletch and I hadn't seen, what was the other one? Under Siege 2, Dark Territory. Yes, I hadn't seen that. But if you do The Man Who Knew Too Little, I do know that movie and I would definitely watch it.

So for the listener at home, it seems like the potential fight is dissipated. Bruiser Yoshida is rolling her sleeves back down. Ben has removed his brass knuckles. It seems the fight has been put off for one more day. But I wanted to say that I think the thing that makes me like the least misty in that scene is just the, like whatever he says, the violinist.

Gentleman, it's been a pleasure. Gentleman, it's been a pleasure. Like, oh man, like that whatever he says, the violinist, the first violinist, the gentleman, it's been a pleasure. Like, oh, man, like, that's, that's like life. That's great. I think that's great, and then of course they play Nearer, My God, to the, and, like, you get the montage of all the victims. Oh, and they all come back. I would have been like, gentleman, it's been a pleasure, drop

violin, jump into lifeboat. Well, no, the thing is they're all walking away, and then he starts to play by himself. Oh, this is the other thing. This gets me in anything. When somebody starts playing something musically, and then other people walk up and start joining in.

That, no matter the context, almost always gets me in my heart. The end of About a Boy. My heart muscle. When Hugh Grant comes on stage and plays Kill Them Softly with Nicholas Holt, it's a good scene. Oh, I don't even remember that. I wasn't thinking of that. The interesting... No, it's fine. Apology accepted.

I'm just bruising with my... Oh, God, she just punched me. It's a really good drawing, though. It's a really good drawing. We shouldn't talk about it too much because the listeners at home can't see it right now. Ben's looking at it and shaking his head in disbelief. So there are many little vignettes and scenes as the movie, as the ship is filling up with water. Besides the main conflict of Kate and Leo trying to get up.

I'm sorry, guys. Ben, get out of here. Get the fuck out of here. Ben's Scarlet Wood laughter. He is. It's good. He's really proud of his drawing. He's good.

I look like a real goofus. A naked goofus. You got to put this online. You do. I think it should go there in a frame. Yeah. I also want to talk about the Cult of the Heart of the Ocean also. Okay.

By the end of it. Okay. So save it. Just bookmark that. The thing that probably hits me the hardest is the Jekyll scene telling the bedtime story to her kids. It's a very small moment,

but it's the kind of thing that triggers me, which is just like the deep dig if you actually commit your mind to it of like, oh, she's trying to keep her kids calm and put them to sleep one last time knowing they're never going to wake up. They're going to drown in their sleep. Yeah, that's horrifying.

Yeah, that sucks. That scene's great. And Jekyllstein kills it. Also the two old people hugging themselves as they go down. That's a real just wringing it out of you. Isadora and Ida Strauss. Yeah, of Macy's.

I think that really elevates this movie for me and how he handles this last chunk is aside from all the sad shit like that, he also does a lot of having to stare straight into the terror chunk is like aside from like all the like sad shit like that he also does a lot of like uh having to stay stare like straight into the terror of death shit where it's like um uh i mean a there's a recurring thing he keeps on doing which i love which is like while you're so invested in just like jack and rose and are they gonna survive um and you know what are you gesturing towards? On the internet you can see

archives of every lifeboat and who was on them. It's crazy. I was just going to say that you're so invested in Jack and Rose making it and you're focusing just on their survival and then he'll keep on cutting to Rose make direct eye contact with

another person right before they die. So you're just like we know the movie's focusing on these two, but all of these people are dying, not just the faint figures in the background. No, he's good at making you feel all the little things and weird. And then, of course, Fabrizio eats it when the fucking, what's it called, smokestack thingy lands on him. And Tommy gets shot by Murdoch who's your himself.

There's that moment I love where secondary characters start to die. It's like the save the cat moment which is like oh this guy's the hero

they're running through the halls they see the little boy he's crying to take him with them and then the father comes and he's like what the fuck

are you doing stealing my kid but in Italian. Multiple interactions right with people who don't speak English and who sort of just yell randomly

at them in Italian and Russian. They were trying to do the right thing they don't have time to who sort of just yell randomly at them in red Italian and Russian. They were trying to do the right thing. They don't have time to explain themselves because now the door's breaking and then he runs in the wrong direction and they're like, don't go there and he just fucking, they get flooded. They just have to keep on seeing all these horrific things around them. And I think that is another thing that makes Rose

both grown Rose or old Rose and Rose that we know more of a character is that we see things through her. I would say that we are seeing all that through her perspective. I would totally agree. The movie is never really through Jack's perspective. The movie is always on Rose.

Yeah. And so she is not just a person who falls in love or feels things. She's a person who sees things. Yes. And is an observer of the world. And that makes her so much more of an interesting person. And it is that pattern. He doesn't ever do it

with Jack it's close up of Rose's face you see her looking off to something cut to someone else's face in close up here's a new victim

we haven't seen before and then they fall out of frame they cut to her very quickly having to process that and her interactions with Andrews who's great

when you quoted him at the beginning that line he says that scene though when the whole lounge is sideways. Is sideways, yeah. Oh, my God. But also before when he sees her on the staircase and he's like, the ship's really going down.

Put on a life jacket. Like, this is it. Remember that conversation we had about the lifeboat? Because she noticed earlier in the film. Yeah. Not enough people. She takes count. And he kind of takes a liking to her.

I can't believe I haven't talked about Andrews more because he's my favorite character. Oh, he's so good. But he kind of takes a liking to her because he notices't believe I haven't talked about Andrews more because he's my favorite character. Oh, he's so good. But he kind of takes a liking to her because he notices that she's sort of of a similar mind to him, a detail-oriented

sort of humanist mind. And you can tell that he's already, like, every time anything's suggested, I mean, the way he talks about the weight of, like, they said that the deck

would be too cluttered with too many lifeboats. Like, he knew that wasn't a good idea. When Ismael is pushing to make the the boat faster so they can get their headline and get there earlier all this shit he's just like this is bad news right i mean like well victor gargoyle comes into this movie and you

feel like there's already been a movie before this about the like tortured right ship creation of the titanic who's been ground down by all of these opposing forces and has to make the ship that he doesn't really believe in but is still going to bring him all this fame and stuff and now he's on the freaking ship and it's like I'm glad you guys are so excited. I hate the world now.

Right, where she's like not enough light posts he's like yeah actually you know I thought we should have a few more but they said it would clutter the deck and like he just seems pleasant about it, but he's very good at playing that inner, like, kind of strange. Yeah, like, so much stuff has happened before this. And the other moment is... And then when he cracks, of course,

it is me and says she's made of iron, sure. Yeah. And he doesn't tip his hat too heavily in terms of, like, foreshadowing with those scenes and his line readings, which are just, like, you know, filled with so much pathos without ever feeling manipulative. Yeah. But it also is, I love this thing that he takes this kind of like shine to her in that

moment because it's like you fucking notice. So then later he's like, I'm going to give you the hot tip. Like the ship's going down because she says, I can see it. I can see it in the people running and I can see it in your eyes. Tell me what's actually happening. And he's like, you got an hour tops. Yeah. Like you remember a conversation about the lifeboat?

No, I know. Get a fucking life jacket. Get out of here. But then, and then the scene, the shot of him changing the clock conversation about the lifeboats. No I know. Get a fucking life jacket. Get out of here. But then and then the scene the shot of him changing the clock. Oh turning back time. I love that.

But it also it's such an interesting story choice because it's like Rose has more information than any other passenger. Yeah. So everything she's doing the decision to jump

off the boat all of this like she knows better than anyone else who isn't working on the ship. Yeah. And even most of the people who are working on the ship. No no you're right. You're right. It becomes a very active set of this. She knows better than anyone else who isn't working on the ship. And even most of the people who are working on the ship.

No, no, you're right. It becomes a very active set of choices. I love this movie. Priorities are established within her mind. You jump by a jump, Jack. She jumps off the lifeboat. A little annoying, Rose. Come on. Yeah, Cal tries to make the fucking deal with all the money and get on the boat.

He has an arrangement with Murdoch. Right. And then he's like, well, go, Rosa. We have a separate arrangement. Jack and I will get on that. And then there's like, you're a good liar, almost as good as you. I like that conversation where it's like, oh, fuck. No, I like that moment, yeah, where he hates them. Yeah.

And they left him the nude painting. Like, they've really rubbed it in his face. Yeah. And he and Jack still have that sort of cordial moment where they're trying to rescue her. They got one thing in common, which is they both like this lady. There's this one moment of bonding. Then she jumps off and then he flips out and starts

shooting at them. That's when he put the coat on her. Yes. Put the coat on the girl. I put the diamond in the jacket. I put the diamond in the coat. I put the diamond in the coat. I put the coat on her. Lovejoy doesn't care. That's what I love about Lovejoy. He's laughing. Zane's laughing.

He's getting zany. I also like that moment when they don't get on the boat, Murdoch's boat, the first time, and instead he goes after Rose again, and Lovejoy's like, fuck. We're doomed. Because then when he comes back later, he's like, what about the money? And he's like, your money can't help me.

It matters even less. Fuck money! The one moment I sort of allude to earlier where the special effects don't hold up for me is there's one shot, I think it's after

the father and the kid get knocked out by the water through the door and Jack and Rose are running away and it's a slow motion run and their faces are clearly CGI'd on to Double's body. Oh really? Yeah their faces

look like weird CGI. They look like jib jab masks. It's like the body is animated as one thing and then there's just like the face that doesn't really move on top of it. It's an art. I think they do the strobe lights to sort of hide it. But it looks very weird if you watch it in high def. I don't remember thinking it looked that weird.

But anyway. I'll say when I saw it, I mean, I think maybe now I look out for it more because of this. But when I saw it in theaters in 3D, it stood out so much that the entire audience laughed. Sure. So now I think I know. I think they were also laughing because that scene is in slow motion

and thus is kind of dorky with the strobe lights going off as well. But the entire audience in unison went, oh, shoddy CGI. I love when they're in the boat, when they're in the bowels of the boat, especially the noises the ship makes. Yes.

The creaks. The weird groanings, yeah. Oh, that's tough. The sound work, that is one of those very very deserved sound Oscars absolutely and I remember they did that year at the Oscars

and he's communicating to you this thing's gonna break and that's why when it breaks you get it that year at the Oscars Chris Rock presented the sound categories and he was like

here's why sound's important this is like what a scene would be like with the wrong sound and it was when the ship is like going straight up and people are falling off

and they like played that clip and the sound was someone going like, ah, no, it hurts. Stuff like that, which I saw that before I ever saw the movie, so now I keep on imagining those voices. There's that brutal fucking moment. I think that was the moment where he overlapped this where the guy falls off, he's holding on to the smokestack, he falls off and hits the fan.

It's like, I mean, imagine okay, so you're like holding on then you hit something. We get it. Broken bones, then you're in the water, freezing cold okay so you're like holding on then you hit something we get it broken bones then you're in the water freezing cold then you're gonna drown

it's bad it's like a reverse a lot of bad death the ship breaks yeah ship breaks like makes a big wave yeah the ass goes up

in the air at this point the movie just becomes like a ride it becomes like a thrill yes very much so a ride except all, very much so. Except all the people jumping off.

Yeah, the people jumping off, which is very, very scary. And then the sight of the boat. And it has also aged more. Strangely, I guess. But that shot of the boat going into the water with all the people in the water already is really alarming. Joanna said this when we were watching. She was like, Jack seems to know exactly the best way

to survive. He's like, we gotta get right to the front. Don't worry, I've been on a bunch of Titanic's before. I know how this works.

And they somehow make it right to the top. But then that sound is the scariest to me when they make it to the top. All the music is cut out, the ship's gone,

and all you hear is people screaming. Yeah. Which is horrifying. It is. You're right. And I mean, this is, I think, why I was especially seeing in a theater when I was a teenager, not even 11 years old.

It was so overwhelming and fantastic. Yeah. And I loved it. Yeah. And we get like, there are two amazing lifeboat moments. There's the Francis Fisher shot where you see her. So many amazing lifeboat moments. But there's a speechless moment where you see her looking and watching all the people jumping out of the boat and dying,

and she gets it for the first time. She gets humanity for the first time. Yeah, that's true, and she sells it. She sells it. And then Molly freaks out at them later. Though you're men out there. Yeah. Which is a great line, as corny as it sounds.

And we've already, up until that point, there's this running thing with Cameron that he hates corporations. He hates companies and all of this. And these, like, large. Cyber 9! These institutions that dehumanize people and view them as a mass and don't think about the individual and all of that, right? And you have the bit of that where it's, like, they're just not fucking, like, prepped for this. And they don't know what they're doing. And, like, getting the, when fucking Victor Garber grabs the guy and is like, why are you sending those lifeboats out there?

They're like half full. I thought they might buckle. And there's not even an explanation. There was a concern about the weight. And he's like, lower class is dying out there. Like, you're not even fucking, you locked the gates on them. Marc Maron's called. He doesn't say any of this.

He wants to sue us. Marc Maron is sending a telegram to them, but they don't get it. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Oh, my gosh. Ten comedy points back. I still can't even hear them say lock the gates. Lock the gates! Oh my god.

But Molly does stage the kind of mutiny on the lifeboat, and she gets all the ladies to go back and... If you don't shut that hole in your face! That's what the guy says to her. No one stands with her. Everyone just wants to survive. Because don't you have husbands?

Your men are on that ship. They're in the water right now. Everyone just stays quiet. Yeah. I mean, she's not been popular to that point. New money. They didn't like that story about putting the money in the stove

and then him lighting a fire. Right. I found it charming. So then Jack and Rose are just hanging out and he puts her on the door, which is very controversial. Yeah, I was going to say, is this maybe the most mocked part of Titanic? The icicles and I'll never let you go after the flying. Dissected, argued.

Not mocked as much as just like it's pulled apart. Well, also, he's very bad in this scene, I would say. Yeah, he is. He's very bad in this scene, I would say. Yeah, he is. He's very bad in it. I agree with that. I think the movie had probably completely ground them down at this point as well. Yeah, I mean, Emily, when you said that thing about how- Dampness?

Dampness, yes. No, but also just how when you watch this movie, you keep on thinking about how cold the water is, which I think this movie does a really good job of. I also just think about even for the like, it's cold in both circumstances. Like, you're like, this looks shitty for the characters, and this couldn't have been easy to film. So you feel the real stakes of it. Even if we know, like, I think it was

like lukewarm water the whole time, but still you're in water all day. Your feet feel disgusting, like, ugh, yeah. No, yeah, being in the water, yeah, it's terrible. I had to do, like, an acting scene in a shower recently, and it was impossible. Like, yeah. Being in the water. Yeah. Yeah. Terrible. Yeah. I did like an acting scene in a shower recently and it was impossible. Like I just like couldn't do it. Sure.

I'm also a bad actor. But. Well, there is something about. I did my job. There is something about Leo in this scene where it's just like I don't buy the shivering. No. It's too much. And also the frost and the coloring and the.

Yeah. He's. It's everything is oversold. He's giving really corny lines too. Yeah. Well, it's too much. And also the frost and the coloring and the, yeah, everything is oversold. And he's giving her really corny lines too. Yeah, well that's because he's like, I know literally my life is leaving me.

He's like, Rose, make sure you have a really great life. Yeah. It also is like, like Winslet's really hitting her stride in this section of the movie.

Like this is the part of the movie where she's just fucking killing it. Yeah. You know where she becomes like sort of more of a strong silent type, and she's just, like, you see her immediately being affected by everything she's just had to see. Survival's kicking in. You know, she wants to be with this guy.

Yeah, well, right. Jack's becoming a non-character in a weird sort of a way. Yeah. He's just, like, extra baggage she has to go down and save and stuff. Right, yeah. And, you know, probably the reason for her near death. But... Well, sure. she's sort of having her like baby

like Sarah Connor transformation but of course then he he frees her you know we gotta remember this he does free her that's the point

like she doesn't get on the boat with her mom yeah so she gets to be her own person after the but I like all I mean I like

I like Yohan Griffith navigating through the the sea of he does a good job in this of frozen corpses I think he does a good job that's really scary too it's really scary and it's weirdly like immediate you know Griffith navigating through the sea of frozen corpses. I think he does a good job. It's really scary.

And it's weirdly like immediate, you know, like this is only like an hour or two later and they're all icicles. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. We should have mentioned in the tight, the best part of the whole sinking scene is, is the dome breaking.

Oh, the water coming through the dome. Oh yeah. That is the one moment that still feels so overwhelming. You cannot believe they did that. Yeah. It's real. Like, yeah. That is the one moment that still feels so overwhelming. You cannot believe they did that. Yeah. Because it's real. Yeah.

And you can see, I've watched it so many times, the making of Jack's sections, where you can see the footage of just them. They're all hanging out in the water, and then Cameron goes like, action, and a million gallons of water come through the dome. Oh, my God. It's crazy.

It'd be so horrible. And it also just- It really looks, it looks like, I mean, it looks like barely, we should talk about the PCP before I forget. Yeah, that's also not a quick reset. There's one other moment that I want to quickly isolate because I think it's a beautiful Cameron moment where it's contained in one shot and it's like a masterful piece of storytelling

is when Ismael gets on the lifeboat, when he jumps on. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's so good. And then they pull focus from Murdoch to him. It's a rack focus. There are no cuts. And it's, he jumps on oh yeah oh that's so good and then they they pull focus from murdoch it's a rack focus they're no cuts and it's he jumps in the lifeboat i think you start on the the crewman right you start on murdoch right murdoch then ismael walks past him sneaks by in his blind spot gets on the boat he's waiting there like looking to be caught then you rack focus you see ismael clock him no uh murdoch murdoch clock him and then go like okay lower the boat yeah and Ismael clock him. No, Murdoch clock him. Murdoch clock him and then go like, okay, lower the boat.

Yeah. And Ismael sort of takes this like sigh as the lifeboat goes down and it's lower and he's out of view. He closes his eyes and has a sigh of relief and then he opens his eyes and there's kind of a look of terror of like, now I have to live with myself. Right, which is famously Ismael was dragged in the press for being a coward because he didn't go down with the ship and he would like testify before Congress. It was like a whole big thing. But that's like a moment where it's like, this is why Cameron's good at his job. This is why he's the anti-Griffin

because he knows how to do something like that. Emily, anything you want to mention in the sinking? Any other moments? I'm sure we're forgetting so many good little moments because there are so many. There is the captain in the... Oh, the captain? Yeah, with the suicide by broken glass.

Yeah, that's a very unforgettable scene as well. He's great. It's okay. I would say this movie maybe romanticizes suicide a little more than it should, given... Sure. I mean, like... But then at the same time, the people jumping off is terrifying.

That's terrifying, but I... But Murdoch and... Murdoch and Ismael, too. It's just like, it's like, okay, what are your options here? Yeah, okay, good job, I guess. Like, good, yeah, I guess. But I mean, it is appropriate to the era where that was, you know, this was a courage and the cowardice-obsessed era.

It's right before World War II where that played into it so much. So yeah, I think the idea, the weird noble idea of suicide in this sort of extreme circumstance. I would still in that situation, rather than kill myself to make a point, I would do my best to get everybody else on a lifeboat.

Look, if you want to shade Captain Smith some more, a hundred plus years later. I think he did make a few mistakes. Yeah, his record is maybe not spotless. First trip. I will

say, I'll make one parallel. I'm really on this podcast just to talk about Titanic Adventure Out of Time. In Titanic Adventure Out of Time there is a medium character who is an expert in the paranormal. Sure. And he's been kind of helping you

with this case and everything. And so once you get to the sea, oh, also, when the ship starts sinking, the layout of the ship changes. When you go up and down decks, it looks like you're going uphill and downhill on it. Oh, that's cool. Ah, shit, that's cool. At one point...'s um ah shit that's cool at one point god damn it that's cool uh fuck it's cool and at one point

you run into the meat and this is like in like zero like you you it's about to it's about to split in half or whatever you know it's like very very close to the wire and you run into the the medium character and you can't it's like an's like an interaction you can't click away from. Like you have no choice. And he's like, I know where you're from. I know that you're not from this time. And it's so scary. It's like very, very chilling.

Also, video games just terrify me no matter what. Video games are the best. A video game doesn't need to be scary. It will terrify me. But I remember that a lot from the sinking sequence. I want to offer a quick corrective. Video games are not the best. Movies are the best.

Movies are number one. Movies are good too. Oh, I don't think that video games are the best. She just thinks they're the scariest. David said the incorrect thing. You said nothing offensive. David said video games are the best, which I don't agree with that. I don't think the video games are the best.

I've even said Griffin's the best. Well, that's not true. We know that's not true. That's objectively untrue. So Jack dies of's the best. Well, that's not true. We know that's not true. That's objectively untrue. So Jack dies of hypothermia. Yeah, he's real blue. After telling Rose that she has to live and have a nice life.

It's kind of foreshadowing for Avatar because this is a movie about people getting real blue. True. All those people. I can't deny it. Getting blue. And then there's the whole sequence where Rose gets the whistle and then she's rescued.

I mean, it's intense even though you know she's going to make it because she's old. Also, when they are, okay, so they get on the Carpathia. That's right. That's the ship that rescues them. And there is that amazing shot where Cal walks by. Oh, and she's in the shawl. Perfectly timed. Yeah.

And then. And isn't her mom there too? No, we don't see her. Yeah. I mean, she did survive. Right. At least it's implied. But he walks by.

He like stalks through and the guy's just like, oh, it wouldn't be your lot over here, you know. Yeah. But he like stalks through the third class deck or whatever. When I'm feeling very pretentious, I say that film, at the end of the day,

is the study of characters in space and time. Right? As opposed to what? I don't know. Farts and giggles. But that moment's like a perfect example

of that where like that's human drama through the relation of two people in timing with each other and if her head moves a second earlier or a second later.

And you cut to Gloria Stewart saying, well, he put a pistol in his mouth, which is pretty brutal. Which I love. During the Wall Street crash. And then you see Paxton and crew listening to the story, and they're like, well, that fucking sucks. We forgot that the story was going to have a bad ending. Yeah.

We were all caught up in the drawing thing. It seemed really hot and fun. Then everybody dies. Oh, right. Oh, Titanic. And she does that, like, you know, a lot of people went in the water, and one boat won.

Like, she does the whole, you know. Cal, what, he, like, married someone else and got his fortune, and then the stock market crashed, and then he put a pistol in his mouth, and she's like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So to speak.

Um, yeah. And that's the end of the flashback-y stuff. Pretty much. And then, yeah, there's a cut scene that they thankfully cut where- Well, first we have Bill Paxton on the deck with a cigar, and he was like, I was going to smoke this when we found the Heart of the Diamond. He throws it out. He's talking to Susie Amos, and he's like, They're going to hook up. Three years I haven't thought about anything other than Titanic,

but I never really got it until now. And then she's like, I want to marry you, James Cameron. You are so charming and you're a drive and focus. James Cameron. You were so very attractive. So obsessed with your explorations, you forgot that humans existed. I can perhaps

be that tie back to the real world, James Cameron. Then we cut to her throwing the diamond in the ocean. No! She slowly walks up to the bow of the ship. I know that Emily was correcting me, but I'd like to think

that you were just angry that she threw the diamond. No! Is that really the last of it, or is it the scene where she's asleep? Is that the end? That's the end.

The scene where she's asleep is the end. Okay, okay. But before then, she throws the diamond in the ocean? That's the end. The scene where she's asleep is the end. Okay, okay. Yeah, but before then, she throws the diamond into the ocean with a little like, ooh. But she walks up, and you think she's just gonna do...

Barefoot? She's in like a nightie. Right, and her hands are clasped, and you think it's just because she's an old lady. And then she gets up, and you're like, oh, it's replicating the moment. But then, ooh, look there,

heart of the diamond cut back. Oh, when she was on the ship, she found in the pocket of the coat. Yeah, that's right. And of course she didn't cash it in and didn't want to live on Cal's money or whatever. But I mean, the idea, right, is that she's now back at the place.

Yeah. I mean, as we know, a woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets, as she says. We all know that. It's reductive to say it again. But like, right, she's like commemorating, like Jack is below her.

That's the idea, right? Right. She's returned to his grave. This is right on the Titanic. Here's my other read on it. It's corny, but you know. Here's my other read on it. They cut the whole scene where Bill Paxton tries to stop her, and she's like, no, Bill

Paxton, haven't you learned? Do you not know about this? It's one of the worst deleted scenes of all time. That's horrible. They cut this whole thing where he's like, but I want the diamond. She's like, no, the diamond, you don't really. It's the story of Titanic. And he's like, you're right.

And then she throws it in the water. Oh, my God, no. And James Cameron watched it and correctly was like, I don't think people care about Bill Paxton at this point. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Well, and here's the thing I like is by omitting that part of the scene, because it's literally just like the scene cuts out early. But even earlier than that, because it's supposed to be that he tries to stop her yeah yeah so it's like in between two cuts of the sequence as we have it right now is this whole other section that's not in there yeah okay um it's supposed to be that he from the talk to suzy amos catches her once she's on the balcony and they're like what what are you

doing um i like that the way it's cut now there's sort of a read that one of the reasons she's throwing it back into the ocean is that like, let him find it if you want. Oh, sure. I didn't even think of that. Sure. Right. Does it be like a bummer just to hand it to him and be like, I had it the whole time? You know?

All right. I think it's like, I like this guy. I tested him. My granddaughter seems to be kicking it off. All right. I get it. We got to wrap up. Okay.

I just realized it's 7 p.m. Jesus Christ. We've been going on for a long time. Okay. We got to stop. Goes to bed. Pan across the time. I get it. We gotta wrap up. I just realized it's 7pm. Jesus Christ. We've been going on for a long time. Go to bed. Pan across the pictures. Ooh, look at this. We see that she lived

this rich life. She got to ride a horse with her leg on either side. Yeah, man. Call back. Call back, call back, call back. But then, I mean, the dream she has.

It's, yeah. All the nice characters are there. None of the mean characters. Like, Andrews is there, but not like mean old Cal and her mom or whatever. Lovejoy. Jack's in his street clothes, not in the white coat and tails. And he's at the clock.

Gives her a little smile. And then you pan up to the sky. She's dead, right? That's the idea. Every night Titanic. You cut right to the song. This ship's called Titanic. Which Avatar pulls the same trick and it is a bummer.

Oh, it does one thing before it cuts to the song. What? Written and directed by James Cameron. He lets that really land with a thud. Because it's like, that's the mic drop moment. If you've made a great movie. Written by James Cameron. James Cameron.

Film won 11 Oscars we should say yes a lot the most ever tied with All About Eve and Ben-Hur no no sorry tied with Ben-Hur

and Lord of the Rings All About Eve has the most nominations yeah because it got like four out of five supporting sure

yeah but yeah any last thoughts on I mean we've said that that movie is a happy has a happy ending somehow okay

and that won it everything that makes the difference I want to talk really briefly about The Heart of the Ocean I mean, we've said that. That movie has a happy ending somehow. Okay. And that won it everything. That makes the difference. I want to talk really briefly about The Heart of the Ocean. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Right. I Googled that.

So the weird thing about a lot of things in this movie, actually, is that the movie is about how, for example, The Heart of the Ocean is like a dog collar. Sure, right. It shackles her to him. But everybody wanted a little replica heart of the ocean necklace in 1997. In fact, Katie, I should say, told me that at her sister's bachelorette party, everyone wore hearts of the ocean. Oh, my God. I mean, you could. I remember in Seventeen Magazine, you could cut out a little order form and send in for your $30 Heart of the Ocean.

Like your cubic zirconia or whatever. I think that's very interesting. I think they did make an actual replica of it with a diamond that big that was auctioned at a Princess Di memorial. That's just a crash of late 90s things. 1998. Somebody decided to spend $2.2 million on that

thing. You know what the catch was, though? You had to pick it up from the bottom of the ocean. You had to go down there. You had to go down the bottom of the ocean. I just think and also Celine Dion wore, I looked this all up

before I got on this podcast, but Celine Dion wore it when she sang My Heart Will Go On at the Academy Awards. At the Oscars? Yes. Which was famously sick

or something, right? Well, it's like Michael Jordan's flu game. The other thing about that song is the recorded version of it, her second take. Oh, boy. That's pretty impressive. That's how she makes the box. Yep. Can we play the box office game briefly? Yeah, and then we gotta get out of it. Second take. Oh, boy. That's pretty impressive.

That's how she makes the box. Yep. Can we play the box office game briefly? Yeah, and then we gotta get out of here. December 21st, 1997. Okay, smart. Titanic number one, $28 million. At the time, thought it was a disastrous opening.

Very bad opening. So there's no way it's gonna make back its budget with that. Of course, its total domestic gross for getting the 3D re-release is $600 million. Right on the nugget. Worldwide gross is $2.1 billion. Which is insane. After you getting the 3D re-release is $600 million. Right on the nugget. Its worldwide gross is $2.1 billion after you include the 3D re-release. It's still one of only two movies in history to get $2 billion. Yeah, and if you look at the weekends, it's 28, 35, 33, 28, 30, 36, 25, 25, 23, 28, 32. It's like just making that for four months.

Its biggest weekend was its fifth weekend? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, that, 32. It's like just making that for four months. Its biggest weekend was its fifth weekend? Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, that's crazy. You know, and so that's how it was just a phenomenon. People just kept going back to see it. Okay, so 1997, December. Number two is a new release in a huge franchise. Ooh.

It's seen as a disappointing entry in this franchise, although I've always had a soft spot for it, but it's kind of bad. Is it Tomorrow Never Dies? Yes. Wow. That was pretty good.

Thank you. 25 mil. Okay. I remember seeing it I never liked it very much. It made 125 total. That's Michelle Yeoh and Jonathan Price.

Jerry Hatcher. Yeah I'm not a huge fan. Number three is a sequel to a smash hit 1996 film. That's a quick turnaround. Yeah. Is it a comedy? Nope. What's the other film. That's a quick turnaround. Yeah.

Is it a comedy? Nope. What's the other kind of thing that gets quick turnaround? Horror? Yep. I still know what you did last summer. No. Scream 2?

Yeah. There we go. Number four. 55 mil after two weeks. Number four is a film we were talking about on Twitter recently. Oh, really? You and I? What's your take on this movie, Emily, without giving away the name?

Because you seem very excited. I remember being really surprised by this movie at the time. This movie freaked me out when I was a kid. Yeah. Really freaked me out. It was not what you thought it was going to be. No, and it is the start of a big director's career. A very big career.

Although I would not call him a great director, although he's an interesting... But a big director. Yeah, interesting character. A large grossing director. For sure. Was it his number one first movie or was it his breakout movie? His breakout movie.

It opens to $6 million, makes $61 million domestic, $122 million worldwide. Oh boy, how else? It's a kid's movie, but it's too fucked up for kids. Yeah. It's really weird. You like this movie, I

think. I'm sure I do. I mean, if you say it's a kids movie and it's too weird. There was never a sequel. Never a sequel. It has an animal in it. It has an animal? I feel like I want to rush you just because we gotta get out of here. Yeah. It's a fucked up movie. The name of the animal, like, not the name, the proper name of the animal, like, not the name,

the proper name of the animal, but the kind of animal is in the title. Mm-hmm. Jesus Christ. And the animal is being persecuted, one could say. What is it? Mouse Hunt.

Oh! I mean, I love this movie. I was tweeting about this the other night. You were. You were tweeting about it the other night what was your tweet again I can't even remember oh god

I can't even remember there's something about remember that movie where Nathan Lane hunts a mouse and I said yes it's called Hunts a Mouse that was my joke

number five Mouse Hunt rules yeah but and remember that scene where he throws up the bug yeah that was the scene that I couldn't take

it's really really gross that's the thing I like is Mouse Hunt is too disturbing to be a children's movie. And then there's the whole thing with Mark Williams plays the nice exterminator man with the big machine and then they smash his machine and I didn't like that. He was too vulnerable for me to see

that. That was his number one first movie. It was one of these like Babe Pig in the City era things where it's like these weird miscalculations about what should be in a kid's movie, but it's kind of interesting but then like of course many a kid like yeah those were always the movies that spoke to me most as a child

as a child or like Return to Oz or something I love Return to Oz I love The Wiz like kids movies that were like weirdly upsetting I was always really into and visually like kind of just on a bizarre nightmare escape well here's another one yeah I saw this in theaters. It contains a scene

where he catches something with a baseball glove. You guys use this word a lot on your podcast. We used to use this word all the time on the Star Trek, Star Wars days. We used to use this word a lot?

Watto? No. There was never a movie called Watto. Oh, right. It's called Watto, though. It came out before episode one. Right, right.

It prepared everybody to fall in love with this harassable junk dealer. That old kook. Is it a remake? Yeah, it is a remake. It's a remake. It's a mad scientist movie. It made $92 million. Oh, Flubber.

Flubber. It's a remake of The Absent-Minded Professor. Disney's Flubber. Right, we use that word a lot. I forgot about that. Some other movies in the top 10. Home Alone 3. Oh, boy.

Directed by Raja Gosnell. Yeah. For richer or poorer, the Tim Allen, Kirstie Alley. Remake of Witness. Amish movie. Yeah. Amish Dodd. Oh.

Not Amish Dodd, but Amish Dodd. No. Yeah. Amish Dodd. We'll be talking more about that soon. We will. Anastasia, The Rainmaker, Alien Resurrection. You mean Amistaza, but yeah, go on.

Amistad. Alien Resurrection. Which is a weird one. Anyway. Crazy. Well, that's been our episode. We've talked too much about everything. In total, I think we... Three and a half hours. I think we beat the running time. Remember that note we got about Shorter? Yeah, we got that

literally two days ago. It's two podcasts of about an hour 45 each. Yeah, an hour 30 and an hour 45-ish. Are you going to release these on the same day? No. Okay. We got to space it out. I want to say that I think this movie is better than Terminator 2.

I agree. When I watched it, I was like, oh, this is my favorite. In fact, I've been watching most of them to prepare myself for this podcast most of the Cameron movies. I don't like Terminator 2. Oh I like Terminator 2. I'm not going there with you. I'm not that into it. Any reason?

God you're trying to start a fight at two hours in. I think it's kind of boring. I think a lot of the stuff that works for me in Terminator, the first Terminator, it's just take it up to such a level where all of it is based the stuff that works for me in Terminator, the first Terminator, it's just take it up to such a level where all of it is based on stuff that happens off screen that it's really hard for me to hang out with the stakes. Interesting.

You know? Anyway. Do you like aliens? Not as much as aliens. Well, I'm with you on that. But do you like aliens? It's okay. It's fine.

Wow. Okay, well. Do you like Avatar? I've never seen Avatar. Whoa. Are you going to watch it? Sure, I'll watch Avatar. Anyway.

What about True Lies? I have never seen True Lies. That one's a weird one. Yeah, I just wanted to get my unpopular opinions out there before I vanish into the night. Bruiser Yoshida let loose onto the streets of Manhattan. Well, you'll be back, Yoshida. I'm sure you will be back with us. Not too long. Bruiser Yoshida loose onto the streets of Manhattan. You'll be back Yoshida. I'm sure you will be back with us.

Not too long. Bruiser. She is never down for the count. She's always ready for another fight. Yep. Thank you so much

for being on the show. Thank you guys. Thank you to Katie. Yep. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Charlie. Charlie. Thank you to producer Ben. Thank God Katie left actually because we would have

fucking kept her trapped in here till seven. That baby would have eaten us all alive. She's the cutest baby in the world. Great baby. Let's get that off the best baby I've ever seen. Great baby. Thanks to Ben

for the drawing. We'll post that online. Everyone get excited. People follow Emily on Twitter. At Emily. We recently changed her avatar. It really freaked me out. For a long time I had that avatar which was Boo

from from Mario Brothers I had that from Halloween of 2012 or 2013

alright forgiven so it was just I changed it for Halloween and it stuck yeah I remember

just a good avatar yeah so check all that out. Review, subscribe to our podcast. Next week we'll be back with a double feature of the two Cameron documentaries. And what's going to definitely be a real short episode. Wow. Should we even

do it? I think we gotta. Okay. I think we gotta. Okay. Yeah. Thank you everybody for listening. Keep it up. Good job, Blankies. Please say nice things about your mommy, Emily Yoshida, on the Reddit. Mother blankies. Okay. And, as always, my mommy likes to draw.

She draws with a pencil. She puts all the drawings on paper. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.