Blank Check with Griffin & David - Trance with Nia DaCosta

Episode Date: April 9, 2023

Probably the only film in history to hinge on the shaving of pubic hair as crucial plot point, Danny Boyle’s 2013 film TRANCE is…certainly something! Filmmaker Nia DaCosta takes a break from post-production on THE MARVELS to return to the podcast as we peel back the layers of this twisty hypnosis thriller. What is this movie actually trying to say? We don’t know. However, we *do* know that Vincent Cassel is wayyyy sexy, and that the film’s notorious electric razor sound effect was an unforgivable mistake. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com or at teepublic.com/stores/blank-check

The podcast is not destroyed. It is locked in a cage, and with enough force, enough violence, the lock can be broken. It comes back, the podcast, not completely, not entirely, but enough to drive you,

to make you feel you have been cheated, enough to make you angry. Okay, good. It's a good summation. It's from the start, right? Right? Yeah. Very serious.

Yeah, I've been fucking up the accents really hard this series so I didn't even want to try to do a McAvoy but the other line I mean it's shorter but it was just tempting was no podcast is worth a human life give it a shot no

you go right to Connery I think the Scottish accent and Connery is really in his own realm of both the way he talks and just impressions. You're just doing Connery. Yeah, I saw someone on Reddit slam my weak attempt at a Dave Bautista impression

in our Knock at the Cabin episode, which in my defense, I don't think I've heard anyone nail a Bautista. I'd like to hear someone nail it because he does have a specific cadence. It's cadence and pitch, obviously,

but I just like... You know, that whispered thing. I didn't get close and I don't think anyone has, but someone said, we have to accept that Griffin basically

has two impressions, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Liam Neeson. Joseph Gordon-Levitt in... He does a really good Joseph Gordon-Levitt in Inception.

Inception. Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't remember a single damn thing, but please tell me. This is my totem. It's a loaded die. Only I know the exact weight and shape of this loaded die. He does have that weird, like, in the back of his throat thing. That he's, like, clenching or something.

Yeah, and he's standing up very straight. His neck is very long. Why? Did you want him to do Don John? Or like, what were you hoping for? I mean, I did that. I don't want to hear about that. No, I was thinking of the walk,

which I think I told you maybe last time. That's so rude. I can't say that on a podcast. I was going to say, I don't know if you remember this, but we were recording our episode on Castaway and in the middle of recording you went, can we stop recording for a second?

Oh. And we said, yeah. And you went, the walk made me almost want to quit filmmaking. Start recording again. That is so funny. So we can cut it out again. Oh my God.

Or we can keep it in and double it. People actually listen to me on this podcast. Well, obviously a lot of people listen to your podcast. And I was like texting a director to be like, is this line producer great, blah, blah. And he was like, yeah. Also, I loved you on Blank Jack. And I was like, oh, which episode?

He's like, both episodes. I was like, I'm about to do another one. Stay tuned. Trilogy. Trilogy. Oh, we got a hat trick. This is fun. It's a hat trick.

Oh, we got to keep having you. We're in person for the first time ever. Yes. Yes. Your first two appearances were both. Well, first time was. Yes, yes. Your first two appearances were both, well, first time was Deep in Lockdown, second time you were

in London prepping the Marvels. Yeah. And now you're in person. It's been 84 years. Time's passed. Time's passed. The first time I was

in my closet. I remember you were in your closet, yes. Yeah. Like talking into a, you know, AirPods or whatever. Yes.

Yes. But now you're with us. And also, I don't know if you saw, on the shelf now, prime position or whatever. Yes. But now you're with us. And also, I don't know if you saw, on the shelf now, prime position, the Wilson Volleyball. Oh, I did see that. And I can't remember where it was. It was over there on the left? Yeah, right by King Ralph VHS.

Oh, yes. Absolutely. Really important artifacts of our culture. It's for the culture. Griff, you've added a lot of stuff. I brought over a lot of little guys. I shouldn't bring you a gift next time. Please. Bring us gifts.

I'm so sorry, Ben. Do you have like, I don't know, the space stone? I don't know. I was trying to think of it. Yeah. If you have any like

spare infinity stones lying around, we'll take those. Let me check. The space stone is the, it actually is the one I would want. That's the one where you can travel, you can teleport. I want the reality stone. Once you have the reality stone is the it actually is the one i would want that's the one where you can travel you can teleport i want the rally so once you have the rally so you can do anything though i feel like yeah but you're not smart enough like i'm not smart no one is yeah

because then you just accidentally like turn your mom into balloons and be like how do i undo that she might be easier to handle in that state blowing away yeah i'll hold on to her space stone it's just like, I want to go to McDonald's. It's based on what you're into because I, I don't like flying and that's it.

I don't like flying either. How do you deal with it? You have to fly. You're a busy, important person. Really? That's very sweet. You are.

Call it with big wig. I, well, part of it's like mentally like trying to convince myself I'm not going to be in a plane crash

yes which has actually gotten a lot better because I used to get on planes and I'd be like this is it this is it yeah

and now I get on and I just know I'm gonna be slightly scared whenever there's turbulence me too would you do the thing where you'd like

eat a bagel before you got on the plane you'd be like might be the last bagel I ever ate like I would do stuff like that no I would be more like

like the night before I would have like heart that. No, I would be more like, like, the night before, I would have, like, heart, like, it would be like, you know,

like, scared. And then, and then I saw the ritual. Like, I had to get to the airport early. I had to, like, be through the thing,

like, hours before, have a meal, have a drink, chill. And now it's sort of like, I just know I'll be scared when there's turbulence.

That's pretty much it. And then I also got an Ativan prescription. I was about to say, there's this wonderful thing called Klonopin. But Ativan's good too. I took an Ativan when I fly to London because that's always bumpy. And I only resorted to medication because I had this flight to Israel that was insane. Like, I was like, i mean i it wasn't even that i thought we were going down it was just like so like up and down and it was terrible

and i'd never been on a flight that bad before and of course you look at flight attendants and they're just like that's my first thing of course upside down flying to the cabin they're like everything's fine um and then i was like how long was that it was an hour and a half and she was like i don't know like 40 minutes 40 minutes though that's long it how long was that? It was like an hour and a half. And she was like, I don't know, like 40 minutes. 40 minutes though. That's long. It was long. Yeah. And everyone was, you can hear like the cutlery clattering.

Yeah. And she's like, yeah, we're just flying through like a weather system. Well, why are we doing that? Do you do the jello thing? The jello thing? It's a classic anxiety thing they tell people who are afraid of flying. Imagine that the plane isn't a big thing of jello. And so, yes, it's wobbling around within the jello but that's it

I did the gravel thing so my manager's brother is a pilot and he was like imagine driving down a country road when you feel turbulence it's like the car going over gravel not even going into a pothole that makes sense

I have a question for the two of you have either of you ever tried going into a pothole going over ground that makes sense well bitch that makes me feel a lot better I have a question for the two of you have either of you ever tried hypnotherapy to get over your fear of flying

still watching this movie again I was like you should try that 100% effective works perfectly now I'm not afraid of flying but I am like

an art thief that would be my fear it's like not afraid of flying at all but I'm like why do I have this in my jacket see this is my issue I'm not afraid of flying at all, but I'm like, why do I have this in my jacket? See, this is my issue.

I'm not afraid of flying at all. I'm terrified of Rosario Dawson now. I could be more afraid. Yeah. You're watching Star Wars. You're like, you're like curled up in a ball. She's in Star Wars, right?

You know what's one of the most immense things about this movie? What? I was reading interviews with Danny Boyle talking about why he made this film. And the origin, I didn't realize how bizarre

the story of him getting to making this film is. Right. But that he was like, I had never made a movie where a woman, a female character was at the center of the story. What about 20 days later?

Yeah, you know what? I might even say to Danny, like, I'm not sure that's right, buddy. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A, I'd say, I'm not sure that's right. B, I'd say, this is sure that's right b i'd say this is the one yeah this isn't the that's the thing that drew you to that you know that feels like

something that a director says on a press tour where they're like i don't know that sounds like something interesting to say yeah and i would have to be like you know you know slumdog it's kind of like you know a man and a woman you know life less ordinary you've made actually a fair amount of movies where it's sort of true yeah and he would be like I forgot I made Slumdog Millionaire If I was like You remember in Candyman Would you go like Oh Candyman right I directed that

Or would you not I might just because I have problems Anytime anyone's like I like that movie I was like literally Someone said I really liked it And I said really That's my own personal issue I just sometimes feel like directors don't like that movie i was like literally someone said i really liked it i said really yeah anyway that's my own personal issue um i just sometimes feel like directors don't think about their own oeuvre

sure as much as i do during press tours your brain turns to mush yeah i think people don't know what they're saying i remember him going on film spotting when this was coming out danny boyle went on and he actually like did the top five with them and the top five film spotting when this was coming out. Danny Boyle went on and he actually like did the top five with them. And the top five film spotting great film podcast at Chicago Friends of the Show, which has been going on for 18 years now.

They always do like a top five list that's usually linked to whatever the new release film is that they're talking about that week. So it'll be like Decision to Leave and then it's like top five cops in love movies or whatever the fuck it is. Right. That was one they did recently. So it'll be like a decision to leave and then it's like top five cops in love movies or whatever the fuck it is. Right? That was one they did

recently. So they had Danny Boyle on. I think they reviewed Trance and then they had him on for the top five which if they have guests interview subjects like that they don't usually do the work

of like making a top five list. But their list was top five Danny Boyle characters. Oh. And he was like I have no idea who are my characters. He was like, my exercise is I only want to pick female characters

because I feel like I've underserved female characters in my career. So it's clearly something that's bothering him. Yeah. It was when this was coming out and he was just like, trance, this was part of what drew me to it. That's funny because he's made no movies since this

that had female leads. No. Not to drag you, Danny Boyle. No. I think he has good female characters. He doesn't make films that are female-driven, per se. No. Not to drag you, Danny Boyle. I think he has good female characters. He doesn't make films that are female-driven per se. Right. But it's not like I feel like his films are lacking.

Anyway, listen. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. So quick and so muttered. I guess the twist of this movie is that Rosaria Dawson is the main character. But you can't reveal that on the press tour. Not to spoil transfer.

I just watched this for the first time. And every 10 minutes, there's another twist in the movie. And I'm going, he thinks she's the heart of the movie? And then we get to the end, you go, yes. Yes. But yes, the twist of this movie is that every 10 minutes, there's another twist. Yeah. It is insane.

Who's our guest? Well, I'm not done setting up the show. Oh, sorry. David, there's a table that needs to be set here. Sorry, I just wanted to ask for something. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their career and are given a series of blank checks,

make whatever crazy passion products they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they shave all the hair off their body, baby. Well, except for their head. She keeps the tresses. I don't know. I did like how he was like, hair connects us

to our base selves and taking, I was like, there's so much hair on top of that woman's head. That is the weirdest explanation, by the way.

Can I tell you, when I first saw this movie, when it first came out, I guess in 2013, at, I think this is the cinema that's now on third half, that,

I don't know, Village East or whatever. The AMC, or the second AMC or anyone. Which is now owned on third half. That, I don't know, Villages or whatever. The AMC or the Second Avenue in Foster City. Which is now owned by Angelica. Oh, great. Yes. But I watched it and when that razor sound filtered in from the bathroom,

I thought to myself, what the fuck is this? And then when they panned up her body and they were like, bear puss, and I'm Rosario. And he was like, how did you know? I was like this is crazy it is one of the more bizarre scenes I think we've ever covered on this she did that way too fast

way too fast to get that bear I mean and like there's I think there's an after skincare routine happening she's shiny she needs something that looks like that was three separate rounds on consecutive days, follow-ups.

She actually leaves. No, she leaves. She gets in a cab. She's like, I'll be back in like 45 minutes. We're talking about the films of Danny Boyle. The miniseries is called Trains Podcasting. Today we're talking about Trance, a true blank check film.

I mean, and really, I know this is not his immediate follow-up to a Best Picture winner, but this is a pretty crazy follow-up to a Best Picture winner and then nomination. You know, like,

Yeah. What was right before this? 127 Hours. Oh, people like that one. Yes. And that's his actual, like, okay, I made a Best Picture winner, I want to make this movie

with just one character trapped in a rock. I thought Slumdog was the Best Picture winner. That's what I'm saying. Oh, and then Slumdog gets in there. Right. Yeah, what I'm saying. Oh, and then Old House 127. But still,

after that, and that got attention and awards. 127 Hours was a mild check clear, so then it was like, okay, you once again get to make whatever you want. He's like,

this time I'm gonna do something wild. Our guest today returned to the show for the third time, The Hat Trick, Nia DaCosta, in person.

Welcome. Thank you. I'm incredibly excited to be here in person. That's really nice. And I haven't seen you since I escorted you into the offices of VH1. Oh, in person? Oh, for VH1, that's right. That's what it was.

Did I see you after that? I think so. Well, Videology Trivia, maybe. Oh, but I saw you from afar. I didn't like talking to you. Sure, sure. But yes, I think we talked about this in the first appearance, but you were working for VH1

on this pilot that never went. Yeah. 80s versus 30s. Yep. It was an attempt at creating a new I love the 80s type show. I guess Guy Code and Girl Code kind of ate their lunch a little,

but the idea was to have comedians in their 20s and comedians in their 30s riffing on the differences. Shortly after that, pretty much everyone at VH1 got fired. Yeah. I think it was our show. But you were prompting me.

You were like, and what are your thoughts on Rent? That's so funny. Like, when you're in your 20s. Me and the other AP were just like writing things and we're like, this is... Because I was 23 at the time maybe or something. I was 24 maybe.

Yeah, hilarious. Yeah, hilarious. Yeah, bizarre. Bizarre. It's so nice to have you back in person for the first time. Talk about this movie, which I think you... We were waiting for you to be out of the machinery of the humongous movie you were directing. Which you are not completely out of.

No. No, I don't think any Marvel directors out until the movie's out and then what happens do they like give you a gold watch or something I wish I don't know

I don't know they give you a sticker for you tried yeah I did it you get a gold star and then you're box office bonuses

I guess sure that's not which is okay that's a gold watch yeah but we're waiting for things to calm down

a little bit to have you back on, which we're very eager to do. And I feel like this was locked in for a while. It was an immediate trance. We might have even given you first pick of all Boyle, and you immediately said trance. I did, yeah.

Which is, oh, no, no, no. No. Did you? Did that happen? I'm crazy. That's crazy. All right, yeah. No, I would, no, no, no.

I'm calling it out to you. I think you had a couple left because, yeah, check the emails. Okay. Because I think, I would have chosen 28 Days Later, probably. Because that. Yeah. No, I would. No, no, no. I'm calling it out. I think you had a couple left because, yeah, check the emails. Okay. Because I think I would have chosen 28 Days Later, probably. That's genuinely my favorite Danny Boyle. Interesting. But I assume someone very amazing has it already.

Well, no, because 28 Days Later took us a while to fill. So now I'm, you might have chosen this. Here we go, Nia. Here we go. Yeah. Because initially there was some thought of you coming on our Kubrick. Yeah. But you were still in LA. in LA and you would have to do a Zoom and you wanted to do it in person. And you said,

wait, Danny Boyle, very tempting. Is it weird that I would have wanted to do trance? And I was like, you want to do trance? That's the call. We just locked it in? I don't think we had even told other people

we were doing what I offered things up and you just called your shot in advance. Wait, who's doing 28 Days? David Rees. Episode with our friend David Rees. It was a good episode. Great episode. You like that movie too?

Oh, I think it's... It's incredible. I mean, like I can watch it all the time. It's amazing. In my opinion, only better on rewatch. Like I loved re-watching that movie., only better on rewatch. Like, I loved re-watching that movie. Yeah, it's pretty wild.

Also, mild correction, I was watching a, what was it? There's a weird special feature on the trans Blu-ray

that's Danny Boyle retrospective. That's him running through all the films he made for Fox. Okay. Being like, I think Fox is the best

place to make movies. You realize a majority of his films have been for Fox, although some of them, I think Fox is the best place to make movies. You realize a majority of his films have been for Fox, although some of them, like Slumdog, were made for other studios and then bought by Fox. You know, and some of them were Fox Searchlight, some of them were Big Fox. But Sunshine was Fox.

20 Days Later was eventually taken by Fox. Life Less Ordinary and Beach were both Fox. So he was just running through only his Fox films, right? And he said, because we were like

a little confused on the 20 days later timeline about 9-11 and everything. The stuff, the empty streets of London, all the opening stuff, he said was shot

in August in isolation. And then production started in earnest at the beginning of September. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were thinking that he shot all the isolated stuff in September And then production started in earnest at the beginning of September. We were thinking that he shot all the isolated stuff in September and then five days in 9-11 happened. Yeah, he said the first of September.

Whatever, it doesn't matter. Look, the point is, Trance. You saw Trance in theaters. You said 2013, had not seen it since. Loved Danny Boyle so much. Rushed to the theater to go see his latest oeuvre and

I fucking loved it I was like I was like wow this is because I was like this is like a pulpy B movie but done in the style of Danny Boyle

and I was like I'm here for it and this is also like he had just made two more Oscar movies I don't know how you feel about Slumdog in 127 hours

I haven't seen Slumdog in the Zodan theaters and I loved it at the time. Yeah. And then 127, I enjoyed. But it does feel like him being like, let me get nershty again. It is a trashy movie in every sense. It is so trashy.

After two movies that are all like the human spirit. And love conquering all. This is like, no. We're gonna just be... I think watching it again, I is like, no, we're going to just be, I think like watching it again, I was like, I don't love it, but I still really enjoyed how batshit it was.

It's wild. It is wild. He asked not to be named. Cause he doesn't want to speak ill of, of filmmakers, but a friend I knew told me that this was the only movie he had ever walked out of in theaters.

And I wanted to know what was the moment that broke him that made him walk out. And we were debating what it could be. And he said, I don't remember it super well, but I think it was a scene where Rosario Dawson says aloud, so you're telling me the only way to blank is if I seduce, have sex with him in his mind

oh yeah or something like that which is early yeah it's um that's when I was like I too would try to have sex with Juan San Casal

in any context however my hands are tied here I think I don't think my only way out here you would not go for the mental plane though

or you may just go more the straightforward yeah I might just say not have like hypno sex also he very clearly think my only way out here. You would not go for the mental plane though or you may just go more the straightforward. Yeah I might just say not have like hypno sex. Also he very clearly is into her. Yeah. And she knows so it's

like you can just be like let's bang. But actually watching it again I realized that's actually supposed to be like the sincere romantic attachment of the film.

Right. But again if she were actually just the main character of the movie. Sure. It would have been a much more interesting film I think and made

a lot more sense I would agree with that I do think that is the ultimate flaw is that making her the main character only by the end works against the film dramatically well and also again this happens at the end of Trance be warned everyone

we're talking spoilers on Trance having the ostensible main character kind of die off screen and be like, yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's uninteresting. Yeah. But I do think you're going to have audience members

walking out being like, so what the fuck was I, you know, like, you know, like I do think that's why this movie got this weird bristly reaction. Like people were kind of mad at this.

Yeah. No, I look, I'm a big Danny Boyle fan. I have seen most of his films in theaters. Pretty much all of them from 28 Days Later on Other Than This and Trainspotting 2. And Trainspotting 2, I think I was getting my hair cut that day when it was playing. That one day.

And then this, I just remember the response being so violently negative. Not just people disliking it and being disappointed, people being like, fuck that movie. That I kind of avoided it for 10 years. Yes, people were mad at this movie. Mad, mad. Which I get it. I mean, this is a movie that almost feels spiteful to the audience.

Yeah, but I don't feel that way. I feel like it's just fun and really absurd. Right. Like, it's really... It feels to me a little bit like when... I was trying to think

of what the specific example of this is and I couldn't pull it up but I think there are a lot of these when, like, comedy sketches or, like, TV show episodes

that parody con artist movies where the joke is the amount of double crosses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where this is a movie where every 10 minutes they're like,

okay, now we're going to change your perception. Actually, she was in league with him before this. And then 10 minutes later they're like, he was the one

getting one over on her five minutes before that. Right, but there's only three characters. So they just kind of keep turning over and over and over. But I don't,

see, I think it's actually really straightforward. The thing that, like, is so, like, weird is the way that she's narrating the whole thing because she has to keep the deception going.

So she's like, so I got confused watching it this time whether or not she honestly couldn't figure out where the painting was or, because in the beginning I was like,

oh, she knows where it is. She just doesn't want to let these guys know. Right, right. And she's actually surprised when he comes back to her because she looks like, oh, shit. And then I was like, oh, she actually doesn't want to let these guys know right right and she's actually surprised that he when he comes back to her because she is looks like oh shit and then i was like oh she actually doesn't know where the fuck it is either yeah but it was all very it just sucks that all of her main

character stuff happens in retrospect like it's all flashbacks so it's not really and then you're like and he's abusive and you're like wait yeah well that abusive. And you're like, wait. Yeah. Well, that I do think gets sprinkled in a little casually. And then just kind of. But this is the problem with trance. Which I don't think it's. You've identified the one problem with trance. There's a little flaw in this. But is that it's, you know, for a movie like this to really work.

It should be like the usual suspects thing where you're like, oh, I'm excited to rewatch it. Now knowing that he's Kaiser Soze and'm excited to rewatch it. Yes. Now knowing that he's Kaiser Soze and that's what's going on. Right. But I don't turn off trance and go like, now I have to rewatch it knowing everything that I now know

because I'm like, I barely understand what it is anymore. We've talked about this on the podcast and certainly with like Sixth Sense because we've covered that but just even anytime

we're talking about twist movies that like the most effective Hall of Fame twist movie is that people talk about that way where you want to rewatch it immediately through different eyes.

The secret is the movie works well on its own dramatically before you get to the twist. Yeah. Like it is grabbing you on a different level. It's not making you think

when's the twist going to happen when's the rug pull going to happen and then something recontextualizes it at the end. Whereas this is a movie where 10 minutes in you're like this movie's going to keep on fucking with me until the end right right like where does this ultimately at a

certain point you throw up your hand you're like okay fine what is it now what is it now there was another special feature on the blu-ray called trance untangled that feels very much like the paper insert and the planet of the Apes DVD that explains the timeline of the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes. Where it is just a Cliff Notes version of all the events of the movie rearranged in chronological order. It's a 10-minute supercut

just so you understand. It's not confusing at all because she explains literally everything. The confusing thing is, and this is where it's kind of absurd, is that it all is based on hypnosis. So you're like, oh, anything can happen. Anything can happen.

Here's the confusing thing. You bought this on Blu-ray? Griffin, you don't need it. He doesn't. No, he doesn't. He needs it. I'll be honest. I'll be honest.

I bought it on iTunes. It had the special features. Okay. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I bought it on iTunes. It had the special features. Okay.

I have recently become a completist of trying to own every movie we've covered. Oh, I see. I'm with that. I'm with that. That's bad. I like having the library. I like looking at the history. Me too.

Of this thing we've built. But Trance, I believe, is out of print. Yeah. It was expensive. A lot of Boyle movies are tough to watch on physical media. Boyle has one of the worst like physical media records

for a director of his stature where there's like four movies of his that have never been released on Blu-ray. Yup. And a lot of them are out of print now.

28 days. I can't believe that that is not easily accessible. You can't rent on iTunes right now. What? Yeah. Why? I don't know. I can't believe that that is not easily accessible. You can't rent on iTunes right now. What? Yeah.

Why? I don't know. I think it's a music thing. You have to talk to someone. But it was up four months ago? It was. But I do think

there's something weird with that movie that maybe makes it more expensive or something. He's just got weird distribution things going on considering that most of his movies are at Fox.

How do you feel about physical media? Physical media? Do you buy a lot of blu-rays uh no i don't buy a single dvd or blur anything i do buy vinyls though um that's something yeah but i am going to start buying physical media things i enjoy like tv shows since right it's all getting you all are crazy plucked away um yeah it's very it's very um i guess i mean we don't have to go into a big existential philosophical exploration of the state of streaming and how it's affected the industry.

Basically every other episode of our show. Yeah, it just, yeah, I found it very interesting. And it's also alarming that you can't buy 20 days later on the internet. Yeah, Beach and Millions have never been released in any format past DVD. Are you serious? yeah and I think maybe one other one I'm forgetting

yeah there's there's a bunch that are Life Less Ordinary has also only been on DVD DVD only what's the first one Dead Man's Shoes? it's called

that's a good movie though Shane Meadows that's a Shane Meadows movie that I love it's called Chalakrae yes same basic family

Criterion put that out at least so that's like preserved Criterion bless them yes I would say I did I was feeling some

what do you call it dementia use again some Shallow Grave and Trance here's what I here's what I really enjoy about Trance and why I loved it

when I first watched it I I okay couple things I love the erotic thriller. I feel like it's a genre that needs to be reclaimed

by women because you look back at all of them and you're like, oh, all those women were abused while making these films. Great. But,

I think it's interesting, an interesting space to explore all of that shit that we don't talk about in movies or in our culture just like desire

and how it fucks everyone up or it doesn't. And, and I was like, oh, this is kind of an erotic thriller it's not erotic enough really but like if you look at it through that lens or you look at it through like it's a pulpy b movie thriller but like done really well by a director then it's like then

you're like oh this is really fun like i wish they all kind of looked like this because the plot itself is no it's not really elevated at all yeah in way, shape, or form, but the style of it I thought was really great. Can I ask you a question? Yes. What do you think of James McAvoy's performance? Look, we're going to dig into this. I love James McAvoy.

And this was sort of in this moment when well, I guess at this point he's pretty established. Yeah. Because Wanted is what? 2008? It's weird that it felt like Wanted was like, okay, so this guy's going to have a really successful run as a leading man, probably in both blockbusters and in, you know, arthouse films, whatever, serious movies.

And then it's like he gets tied down to the X-Men thing, which I think he's good in all of those. Yeah, he's fine. But it doesn't really do anything for him. Yeah. Because that's a tough role. Yeah. Because, you know, especially if you're not Patrick Stewart, it's still like, okay. First Class, I think he's really fun.

The more he has to start playing Stewart, like as those movies Perfect Grass, it's wild to think he did four of them. Four. He sure did. There's four of them. First Class, Future Past, the one with Oscar Isaac. Yes. And then Dark Four. You sure did. There's four of them. First Class, Days of Future Past, the one with Oscar Isaac.

Yes. And then Dark Phoenix. You forget. I didn't watch that one. Oh, you didn't watch that one. You and the rest of the world. Yes. I just couldn't,

I couldn't abide by it. But like by that one. But that's the one where Jennifer Lawrence says we need more, we should call it ex-women. Yeah.

I was upset. And the patriarchy fell that day. Do you remember? Let me tell you why I hate Jennifer Lawrence. People thought it was an earthquake, but it was actually theomen. Yeah. I was upset. And the patriarchy fell that day. Do you remember? Let me tell you why I hate Jennifer Lawrence. People thought it was an earthquake, but it was actually the seismic effect. Of that, yeah.

That's like an Avengers endgame when the women appear for two seconds. They do. And it's like, that's what we're going to give you. Nia, it's not two seconds. It's like 10 to 15 seconds. I just think it's so disrespectful to spend 10 years

basically ignoring women in your franchise. Except for like obviously there's some really good ones and they the way like Scarlett Scarlett Johansson's character evolved

and the way Pepper Potts notes just in case you want to cut this out Pepper Potts Pepper Potts evolved which I

think was a lot to do with Robert Downey Jr. being like this character needs yes he was the one who was like can we make this

a screwball thing where we need to have like chemistry in the dialogue which is why those movies are good exactly I completely agree except for two needs. Yes, he was the one who was like, can we make this a screwball thing where we're actually entangled. We need to have like sexual chemistry. In the dialogue. Which is why those movies are good. Exactly, I completely agree. Except for 2. But anyway, but even if you compare the way they introduce

Donald Johansson in Iron Man 2 where they're like, ooh, sexy lady. She's got thighs. And she'll use them. It's so insane in very 2010 whenever that came out. And then her in Endgame, it's like a lot of work has been done. But it's like, don't give me this little boop boop little boop in your movie Well, but now how much will it they can get at the task done women? Yeah, imagine instead just to be clear coming out this episode's coming about three months before your Marvel movie

So if you want to cut that out you just like that's fine. No, I've said this to them months before your Marvel movie, so if you want to cut that out, you just let us know. I know, it's fine. No, I've said this to them. Imagine that instead of 15 seconds of seeing all of them appear on screen looking powerful in action poses, Jennifer Lawrence just turns to a guy and says, we should call them ex-women and walks out the room.

But also, she says it and then kind of holds for applause and then goes, the door's that way. And McAvoy's like, I mean... Sure. Also, it's also like... We got two on the team? No, it's so sad. Yeah, door's that way. And McAvoy's like, I mean, sure. Also, it's also like, it's so... We got two on the team? No, it's so sad.

Yeah, it's so silly. But I was gonna say my beef with Jennifer Lawrence. Not with her, but like with what happened to Mystique. Yeah. Mystique,

after the first movie, would be blue the entire time. Yes. Her whole thing is that she is gonna be who she is. I know. Why does this girl

walk around with those 80s curly blonde hair? Because she didn't like being in the makeup. I know. It's annoying. It's one 80s curly blonde hair Because she didn't like being in the makeup It's annoying It's one of those It works so against the character arc though It's amazing but that tells you a lot about like how

At that level actors And movies at that level they're just like Whatever As an X-Men nerd I just hate that Mystique is like an unambiguous hero In those movies anyway It just drives me crazy And like by the final one she's like alright X-Men You're over there On what planet is Myst's like, all right, X-Men,

you're over there. Come on, this is called a theater movie. I'm sorry, on what planet is Mystique going to be leading the X-Men? She's not supposed to be like that. She's supposed to wear

a crazy white dress with skulls on it. She's supposed to be assassinating mid-level political thinkers. Yeah. But no, but it's like,

now she's the biggest star in the world. She has to be the hero of this franchise. I know what happened. Days of Future Past is also so wild because you see they have

to construct the plot around like you're on a secret spy mission by yourself. And it's like because we have Jennifer Lawrence for six weeks so we need to shoot her own plot line. What do you think of James McAvoy's performance in the film? This is what I was going to say. Because there was a loaded question. I like McAvoy a lot

and I think few people with his ability have had such bad luck in picking the right projects. But I think about this sometimes with actors who just have bad taste. And I'm not saying he has bad taste. It's a question. Because I think he actually, in terms of when I watch him in bad movies, his commitment, his level of commitment is insane.

And also his tone is usually where the movie's tone should actually be I agree he's usually good at judging that and he's willing to go big or silly as required which I've always liked about him like he was great when he hosted SNL and a lot of his choices

see sometimes I go does he have bad taste right and then other times I go on paper almost all of these seem like good decisions does he just have bad luck this is on the lower end of the McAvoy

leading performances for me but I wonder how much of that is just like is this character kind of unplayable yes yes that's probably I read a thing where he said he read the script and 10-15 pages and he was like I don't want to play this guy he's a victim there's nothing active to play here he doesn't remember who he is he read the script and 10, 15 pages in, he was like, I don't want to play this guy. He's a victim.

There's nothing active to play here. He doesn't remember who he is. He's so passive. The whole time he's just going, what happened to me? What's going on? Right. And then he's like,

but I kept reading it because it was Danny and I wanted to work with him. And then like 20 pages in, I was like, oh, this guy's more complicated. I'm kind of intrigued. And it's like,

he becomes more complicated in that he becomes one of the most loathsome people in the world. But it's not even like fun at a scale of like mustache twirling villainy. He's just kind of unpleasant. That part happens so late. So late.

But then he gets really gross. I think by the time, okay, when he jumps onto the ledge on the roof, I was like, oh, is this supposed to tell me that he's an abuser or something? Like, is this supposed to tell me he's a crazy man? It goes from him being a passive blank to just being kind of like

gross and annoying to then being horrendous. He's sweaty. Sweaty. But I think Danny knew exactly what he was doing. I just think maybe I just hate him so much.

But I mean, I couldn't even hate him because I was just like, I kind of ignored him at this point. Yeah, yes. I was like, I just want Rosario and Vincent to be together. You zone out on him and start to just be like,

oh, like Vincent Cassell is the secret second lead here. That's sort of interesting. But I would say this movie begins with the suggestion that James McAvoy is a clever clogs who's up to something. Yes. And then as the movie goes on, you're sort of like, oh, he wasn't? This guy, yeah. Like, you keep expecting him to be like,

that's why I staged all of this. And like, that's what you were seeing happen. And then, of course, the ultimate twist is no. Did you see that it was supposed to be Fassbender until like very late in the game, playing the Cassell part? Oh, well. Playing the Cassell part, really?

Yeah, and it's like Oh I could see They obviously had a Well established Sort of like They're They're good rivals On screen

Well Professorist and Magneto You know they represent The two I can't imagine anyone But Well that's the thing Cassell you're just like I don't want to watch

Fucking this McAvoy guy Like it just feels like They're in different movies In a way Where Cassell's movie Is a lot more enjoyable Um Vince Vincent Cassell's movie is a lot more enjoyable. Vince, Vincent Cassell

is the best actor alive at playing someone who you always think could kill you, but you are always attracted to and also always think he'd be ready

to throw down. Not that you want to, not just that you want to have sex with him, but that if you're like, hey, can we have sex? He'd be like, of course, yes.

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to kill you. And you're like, I'll take my chances. He has the most bizarre energy. I mean, his face looks like a knife. And you're like, what are you, like, 4'8"? Yes. You know, can you crawl into, like, between walls?

You know, he's taller. I actually have no idea. But you know what I mean? He has this kind of weird squirrely energy that I love. But then he also does project, like, so much intensity and strength. Yeah. He's such a great. Anytime anyone uses, any director uses him, I'm like, well, you're smart.

I also just think when he does English language films, there's this odd comic energy on top of it. He's 6'2". Wow. That's fucking nuts. I'm married to a literal fucking supermodel. Well, insane. Have you seen these two, by the way? Oh, yeah.

I mean, she's the hottest person I've ever seen. But also, she's like 25. It was very to Monica Bellucci. I know, it's absolutely insane. But that's what I love

about him. You're like, you know, if you just look at him out of context, you're like, okay. But then as soon as he

starts moving and doing things, you're like, of course. Such an interesting guy. Well, we should acknowledge he is l'enfant de Népos.

Who are his parents? His father was a famous French actor Who had like an entirely different vibe than him Why am I forgetting his first name? Pierre Cassell? I think it's David Cassell Let me look it up

Jean-Pierre Cassell Thank you Who looks like a French actor? Yes You know, here's what he looks like He looks like a guy in a French movie Who'd be like And you'd be like Yeah, he's a French looks like. Oh, I'm blessed. He looks like a guy in a French movie who'd be like, and you'd be like,

yeah, he's a French actor. He plays like the porter and murderer on the Orient Express. Okay. He did a couple of Hollywood films, but he was a huge French star, but was sort of a very genial, warm presence on screen.

And I think Vincent Castel's talked about, like, there was a bit of a Kirk Douglas, Michael Douglas thing. Sure. Where he's like, my father's shadow looms so large in French cinema that I have to be the opposite of his persona. And, like, him coming out with Le Hen was being like, I'm fucking of my generation. I'm scary. I'm violent.

You know? Best decision he made. Yeah. But then whenever he does American films, and I think, or at least english language films and he speaks well yeah but he something about him speaking in english makes him feel like a cartoon version of a french person really i disagree i i don't say this in a bad way i think there's this odd energy he has like obviously soderbergh weaponized it comedically for the oceans movies for no reason yes but then like. I think that's like one of the funniest jokes in a movie ever.

When he does the dance in Oceans 12. It's so funny. Like Black Swan, Eastern Promises, this. He's incredible in Eastern Promises. I have to watch that again. The best. The best. So good. You want to know something else about him?

He is the voice of the Dennis Leary character in Ice Age in France. I love this. I knew you'd like that. Yeah, that's cool. I really like, because now, you know, every Disney Plus movie ends with 15 minutes of credits on who the

dubbing voices were in every country. Right, right, right. I always watch through that to see if I can recognize who's the equivalent star in which country uh i know i mean french comedians i tend to know better than the other ones um what was i going to say about talking about his oh also the voice of robin hood and shrek that's right monsieur hood maybe that's why i think he sounds like a cartoon version of a french person that's so funny because that is just him playing into the stereotype um and now he's playing

Julius Caesar in the new Asterix movie. Yes. Pretty exciting. You know Asterix, the French cartoon character? It's like the MCU of France. The biggest live action

film franchise. He's playing Julius Caesar in the latest one. Yeah. And Marion Cotillard playing Cleopatra. It's an all-star cast. Guillaume Canet

directing and playing Asterix? That's right. Wait, what? Guillaume Canet directing and playing Asterix. That's right. Wait, what? Guillaume Canet, the French actor. You know what? We're way down a rabbit hole. We're down the rabbit hole

we want to be in because it's the one that's like a rabbit hole. I'm just saying, Nia, maybe pitch for the next Asterix movie. Bring him in. We could bring him in.

We could bring these other franchises. Oh my God, that's so funny. David, can we get into the dossier? Because I just, I had no idea where this movie came from. And it does feel, but that's of course part of the Danny Boyle magic because I feel like he does always resist

what I feel like would be the obvious path after a success. Yeah. Or a failure. Yeah. You know, like, you know, he does resist safe choices. And I do think that's to his credit. It just doesn like, you know, he does resist safe choices. Yes. And I do think that's to his credit. It just doesn't always

like... What did he do after this? The movie he made after this was Steve Jobs. Okay. Which I think is

an incredible film. That is a safer choice in a way, although that was such a complicated cursed project that it was scary to take on it.

an Oscar favorite in theory to do. Yes. Okay, so, Slumdog Millionaire, gigantic success, right? He can make whatever he wants.

He's single-mindedly, must make 127 hours. So that's what he does. After that, the first thing he does is the Frankenstein production at the National Theater, which you can watch.

So good. Which, of course, is where he meets James McAvoy, right? McAvoy and Johnny Lee Miller switching roles every other night between Frankenstein oh you're right

it's Cumberbatch and Johnny Lee Miller I always forget James McAvoy played Frankenstein in the other Frankenstein movie with Daniel Radcliffe Victor Frankenstein I'm sorry I always it's Cumberbatch and Johnny

Miller. No James McAvoy. John Lee Miller is really good in that. Johnny Lee Miller rules. He was best as both, actually. Frank Sinatra and the Monster, which I was like, ooh, interesting. One of those guys who, like, Boyle is one of the only people who seems to totally understand how to use him.

But have you ever watched Elementary? Speaking of Sherlock Holmes Who better come to match also He's also like secretly you're like He's great at this He did like fucking 87 seasons A zillion seasons of it Okay then of course he's asked to direct

The opening ceremony of the London Olympics Yes A masterpiece which we will be covering on this podcast And he said he wanted... Wait, what? That's amazing. On Patreon. He wanted to set trance in New York, and the only reason he didn't is because basically the Olympics was his day job.

Oh, wow. He needed to be like... That's interesting. Which is, you know, that's a scary gig. And you're following up the Zhang Yimou Olympics. We'll talk about that. But like, you know, that's not an easy thing to take on, but he was

apparently just like, you know, absolutely. I live in East London. I can't wait to do it. We'll talk about that. And he, you know, he really liked doing the Frankenstein thing. The Frankenstein thing is very cool. Is that kind of like Cumberbatch right when Sherlock is hot?

Like, it's like 2010? Yeah. Like, that's when Cumberbatch is kind of new and exciting? Yeah, and everyone's trying to figure out, like, how far can this guy go? What can we do with him? But he, yes, I think had just started to, like, break out in terms of the leading man of his generation.

And so he wants to take on a film project after Frankenstein is done before the Olympics so it is trance and he has to make it in England as you say and the deal also was he shot the entirety of this movie and then had the agreement I need to take

six months off before I start post production to finish the Olympics so the movie was filmed, kept on a hard drive Olympics finished, six months later he goes into the editing room. Right, because it doesn't come out until 2013. Can you imagine? Because I like to take two weeks off and pretend I didn't shoot a movie and then look at all the footage.

Six months, though. That seems therapeutic. Oh, it's the best. I think you can actually get a week off and I'm like, I'll take two. But I genuinely can't imagine six months. Do you think it would be better? Like six months and then you come back to it and it's like, wow, I'll take it. But I genuinely can't imagine six months. Do you think it would be better? Like six months and then you come back to it

and it's like, wow, I don't even remember this. Yeah. I think the best time to take a break though would be in the middle of shooting. Not for six months, Jesus. Yeah. Move on with our lives. But no, yeah, I think so.

Because then you really get to use fresh eyes. Yeah. I mean, the first episode you did with us was Cast Away. And you said, the reason I'm obsessed with this movie is the idea that he made another movie in between, that there's this whole break. Also, I love that movie. I mean, that movie's incredible.

Yes, okay. So he's got to find a London thing that he can shoot around his Olympics obligations. Yeah. This script had been sent to him and John Hodge and Andrew McDonald, his writer and his producer, when they made Shallow Grave.

Yes. This guy, Joe Ahern, his writer and his producer, when they made Shallow Grave, this guy Joe Ahern, and they liked the idea, but the Joe Ahern was like, I want to direct it though. And they were like, this is like a complicated script for you to be directing

as your first script. But okay. And he went off and he made a TV movie of it, which exists. This movie is like, I've never seen it. Has the secret heat narrative of like and he made a TV movie of it, which exists. This movie has the secret heat narrative of like, there is

a TV version of this with a different cast in 2001. That is like, I mean... I was searching high and low for it, could not find any way to watch it. Here it is. Here's the, you know... But it's one of those things where I looked it up and like, Phil Davis I know,

but apart from that, I don't even really know the cast here. Like this is not a big TV movie. See that looks like the version that you would just see on TV all the time. L.A. Takedown. Have you ever seen clips from L.A. Takedown? No. Michael Mann had written the script for Heat. Wanted to make

it early in his career. Couldn't get it made and then made it as a TV movie with actors who are not Robert De Niro and Al Pacino. And it's called la takedown it's called la takedown it aired on television and then like 10 15 years later he was like you know what i'm ready to make this properly and you watch it's the same thing it's the same script but obviously he's got a lower budget you know his craft had evolved by the time he makes heat but also you're just watching like the coffee shop scene and going like wow movie stars are really really impactful yeah and no disrespect to these actors who are all solidness yeah but like you look at the poster for the tv movie trance and it feels

like the same thing where it's like we can we can ding like a mcavoy performance but there still is an energy he has yeah that that carries you through a movie yeah 100 yeah i mean i think they all i think the casting was really good actually and for trance like danny sapani who i fucking love like like all the people mentioned those other two i just i could not believe there was a prior version of this and that boyle basically comes back around to him and says i never forgot about that script Would you let me take a crack at it? Essentially, they loved the premise, and they never forgot about it,

and so he gets John Hodge, who he has not worked with since The Beach. Yeah. 13 years at that point. Right. And says, you know, can we work on that again? And he says that the movies are not that comparable. If you watch the TV movie, there's a couple things that are the same but like it's not like

uh you know la take down uh right uh scene for scene or whatever and they hadn't worked together apparently it was great to work with him uh joe ahern had nothing to do with the movie. He gets the credit for the story, but that's it. Okay. And he loved the idea of amnesia because you can create worlds where you're not sure whether you're seeing is real or not. So he likes Memento.

He likes Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. He likes Nicholas Rogue movies. I remember when Inception was announced, Christopher Nolan's pitch was, it is a thriller that takes place in the architecture of the mind. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? You see Inception, that is basically the correct way to describe that. Architecture is the word, yeah.

But this is, it feels like, falls in that category of like, a movie in the architecture of the mind. Yes. Interested in vague ideas of how a brain might work Yeah And then as you say He does repeat this over and over That he likes that there's a woman in the engine room Is how he puts it He wanted her to be the driving force

Of the film Go ahead I just feel So she's like... He has two daughters. Danny Boyle, father of daughters. Father of daughters. He also dated Rosario Dawson after this movie.

Yep. She went from Danny Boyle to Eric Andre to Cory Booker, I believe, was her incredible dating history at this time. I think it was Booker and then Andre, but maybe I'm wrong about that. No, I think it was Andre Cory Booker, I believe, was her incredible dating history at this time. I think it was Booker and then Andre, but maybe I'm wrong about that. No, I think it was Andre and then Booker.

Really? I think so. Yeah, because Booker she was with until very recently. Why do we know this? This is so sad. Well, my wife once was at a spa in Atlanta and Cory Booker and Rosario Dawson walked in. Obsessed.

Are they still together? They just broke up, I think. Anyway, carry on. Oh, no. Okay, so she's like, hi, I'm Rosario Dawson. I'm in the movie. And then, you know, halfway through, she's like, he's I'm Rosario. I'm in the movie. And then, you know, halfway through,

she's like, he's sexually obsessed with me. Wait, there are a couple moments where, like, later in the movie, she's talking about their, like, their affair. She's like,

it was a highly sexual relationship. And then he cuts him into a cell being like, oh. Yeah. Like, gurgle, gurgle. I'm, like, bleeding from the mouth. Doesn't like it.

And I was like, what? Like, what is that? Why do you? Anyway, so she's like, he's sexually obsessed with me. I have to get him to, like, want me. And then I'll have sex with him and he'll tell me what the painting is. And I was like, what? Like, what is that? Why do you? Anyway, so she's like, he's sexually obsessed with me. I have to get him to like want me. And then I'll have sex with him and he'll tell me what the painting is. And I was like, this logic literally makes no sense.

And I guess you could say, well, she's trying to hide the fact that they had a relationship before, blah, blah. They go on the date. And then he's like, I don't want to have sex with you. And she's like, weird. And Vinzel's like, why? And she's like, well, it's because of you. and she's like weird and Vinzel's like why? and she's like well it's because of you and then they have sex and I'm like

what? the logic isn't logicking and then she immediately goes to see homeboy James McAvoy and then she shaves her badge

she sure does because she knows what he wants and he starts sobbing and he literally is crying and I'm like has this man never seen a vagina?

crying just looking at it I was like this is so this man never seen a vagina? Crying just looking at it. I was like, this is so, this is spiritual. And then, and then they, we don't show them having sex. And then he's naked.

Right. You see him just sort of sitting studiously cupping his dick and balls in his hand. Sitting on the edge of a bed. he was hypnotized and imagining this whole

pew pew thing with him shooting everyone and, you know. And Vin Diesel's head is blown off and talking to him and all this. Yeah. And I was like, this energy here actually should be in the entire film. So you like that absolute hard to track mania of that.

I think if you committed to that, there is a logic you could have threaded through from the beginning. Like if the rules were more set up. I mean, that's the part in this movie where you're like, what and why? And none of this makes sense. Yeah.

But I feel like if you start out and this guy has, like, issues and he doesn't know what's real and what's not real, you can actually thread, like, you actually,

like, that whole thing about, like, hating the audience, you can actually just set up a universe where you're like, oh,

this is what's happening and this is why. Yeah, I also, like, I love movies that take place all in someone's mind as long as that is part of the upfront setup rather than the twist at the end. When it's a rug pull, it feels like you're sort of selling out the

movie. But things like Eternal Sunshine, Insomnia, whatever, or not Insomnia, Inception. The Cell. Yeah, yes. The Cell's a great example. But things like that where you're like, we're going to be able to engage in crazy dream logic and unbridled id and all that sort of stuff. I don't think you should have seen it when you were nine.

I watched HBO all day. I was in the latchkey kit all day, every day, HBO. Yeah. I will say this, Graham. Yes? Sort of speaking to the swervy aspect or you know this is an interesting quote from him he says having done slumdog and 127 hours which are award season films as well as the olympics we're aware of the danger that you get

locked into these aspirational redemptive movies and we have a history of another delicious kind of filmmaking which is a bit more evil and the characters are not what they seem so i feel like for trance he's like he's off making the olympics which is like the things that britain has accomplished socialized medicine you know like we're all in it together and so this is his little nasty like side project right this is the receptacle for him to place all of his cynicism But the movie has nothing to say, does it? Trance? Trance? Tell me more What does trance have to say?

They talk about greed, they have a little greed quote I do think this is one of those movies where like It's about the puzzle box Yeah, I don't know that trance has a lot to say about anything If it has anything to say Struggling to fish a theme out of it Right, right It says stuff about art

Tell me more about that What's it say about art Ben? It's expensive It in fact tells you that directly Oh they do tell you that no piece of artwork is worth a life No, no podcast is worth a life Yeah What a fucking movie okay i mean that's that's basically

the set that's the setup for how they made the film obviously got james mcavoy who wanted to work with danny boyle uh as you say screenplay didn't really grab him but he got into the twistiness of it i suppose uh And where is he in his career? I guess he's... He's made two? Yeah. He's made one X-Men. Okay.

Days of Future Past is coming out next year. Okay. He had been mired in that awful, apologies if you know the filmmaker, Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby project. Uh-huh. People forget about that one. That was a Harvey Weinstein thing, right?

It was. Three. There's three. There's his, hers, theirs That's it, I believe Okay I saw I think I may have seen two of them Anyway

But like he's a funny guy In that like he had been kind of Floating around for years I think people forget that he's in Children of Dune The sci-fi channel miniseries Obviously he's Mr. Tumnus. Well, that's later. Can I tell you something about that?

I was watching when I was on TV. I was really young. My grandma, who's a Jehovah's Witness, walked into the room. And she saw Mr. Tumnus. And she goes, what are you watching? I was like, oh, it's the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. And she's like, this is demonic. Which she's right, even though it is an explicitly Christian work of art.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very, it was hilarious. That's really funny. Yeah, bless her. I first encountered him in, he is in White Teeth, the miniseries of White Teeth, but in State of Play and then Shameless,

the British Shameless. Oh, sure. It was one of those things where it was suddenly, it was like as you were as a British TV watcher you're like oh this guy's everywhere like this guy is suddenly

popping up everywhere and then Last King of Scotland is the first movie I remember sort of like I mean Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe but Last King of Scotland

is the one I remember him sort of standing out as a serious leading man because that was 2006 yeah so in 2004 he does a movie called Inside I'm Dancing,

in which he plays a paraplegic, which is one of those like, oh no, hyper committed performances. It's not great. It was called Rory O'Shea Was Here in America. Oh, yes. I remember that. Yes. And then the next year, he did Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

And even though he played a magical faun, I think that he succeeded because everyone came out of that movie being like, Mr. Tumnus is pretty hot. Kind of horny for Tumnus. Like, they came out of that children's film. Right. About children fighting a witch being like, but those first 20 minutes with the faun, I was kind of feeling the faun.

He is like pretty fucking captivating. He's really charming in it. Yeah. And then Last King of Scotland, obviously he's the, he's like the off ball guy, you know, like,

you know, that's Forrest Whitaker doing everything, but he is good. And that's one of those examples of like, he is the lead of that movie. Like Forrest Whitaker's so, performance is so huge that it basically got willed into him winning a best lead actor Oscar. But like,

McAvoy has four times the screen time that Whitaker does and got a little bit ignored. Which I think that was tactical, personally, because I feel like

that was like in the midst of people being like, why is every movie that's about a black person or a significant black character have to be told

through the eyes of a white person? And I would have gladly been like, it's all for a spy. It's a yeoman's work performance because he knows he's going to get steamrolled by the guy playing the most

interesting character of the world. Kerry Washington popped in that movie too. Yeah. Yes, that's right. And then he has he does a few like little British movies. He did Starter for Ten. He did Becoming Jane. Remember that? Starter for British movies he did Starter for Ten he did Becoming Jane remember that? Starter for Ten

good Starter for Ten a great book and solid movie yeah and University Challenge it's about University Challenge my favorite TV show

okay and then of course Atonement which he's incredible in right and that's a movie that's like stacked with good performances

yes and it's this like very you know you know complex three storyline film and was presented as like this is going to be the oscar juggernaut like joe wright is ready this is going to be

the english patient or something it does get you know plenty of oscar nominations it wasn't quite the juggernaut they wanted it to be no and i don't think it totally made him in the way people thought this is gonna elevate this is gonna be his ray finesiennes moment But his sex scene With Keira Knightley In that movie is like Iconic So iconic and hot Iconic And I feel like Even more so now

That we don't get enough Sex scenes in movies Like people go back To that one Being like god damn Yeah That's also Benedict's Little pop-off

Yeah Yeah Juno Temple Watch out So many people Pop in that Yeah And then the next year

He had Wanted Vanessa Redgrave I think that was Like her first big movie Was she in that. Yeah. And then the next year he had Wanted. Vanessa Redgrave. I think that was like her first big movie. Was she in that one? Yeah. Wanted. Big, big hit. Right.

Out of no, to somewhat surprising hit. But let's say a little similar to the last King of Scotland thing where it's like, he's the lead. He is the lead, but Joe Lee is the one who everyone is interested in. Well, he has a,

he has a, his energy is a little sub in a way. A little? He's like screaming and crying and sweating that whole What are you doing to me? Like dragging him around. Chris Pratt is the fucking guy who fucks

his girlfriend in that movie. And this is before his glow up. So it's very interesting. Chubby Pratt. That's not what I meant. As a chubby guy, I miss Chubby chubby pratt yeah he took himself less seriously i do think there's something to mcavoy often takes these roles where someone else is allowed to steal the movie from him like split you're like why is it taking it this long for you to feel comfortable doing like the main dance i think split is his movie that's movie. That's the one where you were like, yes.

And I actually felt like, I was like, M. Night, you're back. You know? Split is the movie, as you say, Griff, where you're like, okay, he finally got handed like... You get to play the color. Exactly. Versus you just sort of doing the plot for him.

And as you say, Nia, where he's like, yeah, I get the tone here. I'm going to fill it. You know, I'm going to go for it. I feel like part of what you're talking about, Griff, is probably that Wanted is getting passed around and bigger stars than him are like, well, I don't want to play this guy. Right.

Because this guy's fucking crying the whole time. And McAvoy's like, well, you know, I'll take a shot. Right, and we got two humongous stars playing the supporting roles. We don't need a money person in the lead role. We just need a solid actor. But he's still like, he'll do Atomic Blonde. He'll do movies where like, you're kind of the second lead.

You're kind of, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, he will do that still. The X-Men thing is so interesting to me too, because I think he's really good in first class where the whole thing is, oh, he's sort of this like cad and this leech. And it's like, this is so different than the Patrick Stewart Professor X.

There's nothing stately about this guy. It's surprising. He's got fun energy in it. And then as the movies go on, they're like, can you just sort of, like, do a Patrick Stewart impression? We're gonna shave your head. But he starts out, like, he's the fun, the fun, funny one. Does he get shot in the spine in the first movie?

First movie. Yes. And then they do this bit where it's like he can use his brain to walk again but if he does it then he can't his powers don't apply

in other places. I just disagree with that fully. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. Right. So the second movie he's like walking around a bunch but then he can't read people's minds

and they're like you have to make a choice. It's either the chair or your powers. Yeah. Also okay let's think about that logically though. If he can use his mind to walk again that means he's lifting himself up with his mind yes which means that when he's walking his feet he's not using any

muscle and he's puppeteering his legs would be he'd have weird jake sully legs but also he's professor x is not a telekinetic mutant he's a telepath for crying out loud no no point is happening i'm so sorry it's fine i'm saying that's why it never made sense. It doesn't make any sense. You're right. Rosaria Dawson got this role. Scarlett Johansson was supposedly considered. That feels like something she would like eventually just say no to. Yes. Feels like match point retread.

Zoe Saldana, who I feel like is probably pretty, like, well, this is four years after Avatar. Is this the Columbiana year? Is this the year Columbiana came out? Columbiana underrated.

I would agree. It's 2011 is Columbiana? Okay, yeah. Okay. Boyle... We get to do full frontal nudity

and shave your vag. That's a hard, that's a, like, it's a lot. Yeah, I wonder, right, because it's,

the way this film is made, and Danny Boyle as a director, I don't see there being any workarounds of just like, if you're doing this, you have to do this in close up. Yes. It's so funny because in one way you're like, this comes out of nowhere and is insane.

But in another way, you're like, I guess you would have to in the first meeting with the actress be like, so your shaved vagina is a pivotal point non-negotiable....is a pivotal point. Right. He had auditioned Rosario for a different movie. He doesn't say what, so he knew her. Interesting. So he really liked her. Sunshine, maybe?

Maybe. That makes... I'm trying to think what else she could have fit into, even. Sunshine makes sense. Right. Maybe the... Well, but she's been around forever. Right.

But she was in Kids. She was in Kids. Which I can't... I've never watched. I can't do it. I tried to watch the first scene. I was like, no. Kids is rough. I can't. I'm just Kids Which I can't I've never watched I can't do it I tried to watch the first scene I was like no Kids is rough

I can't I'm just like I can't Nia we're New York City kids We lived it We don't need to watch it I know Exactly We lived it

Thank you Yeah Thank you He decides that it's fine That there's an American In the middle of the movie Yeah She's different

She talks differently He's just kind of like I don't know that works Which is good I like that he does that Very refreshing I love any time a movie has a character

with an accent different than the place the movie's set and it doesn't explain it at all. Because any time there's a scene where it's like, well, and then I relocated here because I'm like,

you don't need to tell me. The world is a big globalization. We meet people who have different accents all the time. Especially in London, Jesus. What's your fucking backstory?

And as he says here, as I was just saying, I'm correct. You know, when we met people and talked to people for the part, we were very clear that it was non-negotiable, the nudity. It's the biggest plot point of the movie.

So he said, I don't know. I love that he was like, I need to show that I respect women, that I think they're fully well-rounded people. And the movie I'm going to do that in, she has to show her bare puss several times non-negotiable bitch yeah and then she has to sex has to be central to what what drives the you know like you know i mean i'm not anti it but i think it's a funny like i do too i'm also not anti it and i think it's like fine and like you

say i miss the erotic thriller but it it is just her character is so bizarre i like rosario a lot we were just talking about i mean we'll have come out by now but we were doing the men in black movies on patreon so we were talking about men in black 2 a very thankless role but a role that i think was kind of positioned as like holy shit shit, she's going to be the female lead in the Men in Black sequel. This is going to like blow her up. And we were saying like, for having a really good career,

she doesn't really have like her defining parts. She feels like someone who everyone always respects, but she's maybe never gotten the thing that feels like the perfect fit for her. Daredevil, seasons one through three. This is the thing. I think she's incredibly good in daredevil yeah she's kind of like the best performance in any of those marvel netflix shows really good uh but like i think that is she has this very grounded sensitive quality in a show like that you're like she brings this down to earth she

makes it feel real and tangible it's kind of odd to cast her as like a film noir siren because that is so different than her vibe i think despite her obviously being very like sexy but i think that was the thing that they needed for that role right they needed to be initially warm and sort of like i'm here to help therapy In a therapy session, she's really good. Yes. Yes, you actually have to. What I think really was amazing in this film, when her boobs come out, I was like, they are huge. And you don't notice that until that moment. Yes.

And I'm like, that is brilliant. That's range. Because... The way they've styled her to be like... So, really, because... I mean, she's absolutely stunning anyway, but I think the way that they very consciously

were like because even after that moment they don't make her sexier you know like she's always I mean her hair is down now whatever but like she's always presented

as like a professional exactly and there's never any like oh my bra's dropped there's no femme fatale yeah yeah right yeah

so she's really good in the therapy scenes I mean that's like her energy that she's so good at where she just has like a sort of like warmth and knowability and control. Yeah, and you just feel like, yeah, of course, this person is like a skilled hypnotist. Yeah, which is very crucial to this movie.

You need to kind of immediately just be like, hypnotism works fine, and she's great at it. When you get to the later flashbacks, and it's basically only in a montage, her and McAvoy do have really good chemistry when they're playing the clips, the brief ingets of... They do. I mean, he's kind of annoying,

but in his way, in his cute way. When he's going like, do you know which painting I'm talking about? I would just be like, shut the fuck up. I can learn about this later. Asshole. Why are you ranting to me about pubes?

I was like, what? Sure. Fine. I mean, that's when you... If you're dating a man, and he says, listen, it's so much better

because it's filthy. He basically is like, it's dirty and filthy. Do you have pubes, James McAvoy? Do you? Yeah. Because you better get rid of yours

this way you want her to do. Absolutely ridiculous. If a man does that, you run immediately. If he's like, and you know, and so that's why it's, if he cries when he sees your pubes.

It's also just like, you know. No, I just think it's like, and you know, and so that's why it's, if he cries, when he sees your, like, huh? It's also just like, you know. Well, no, I just think it's like interesting to discuss this as an art movement.

Do you want me to shave or not? Exactly. If that's what you're into, just tell me. We can have this conversation. It is so weird that his perspective is like, you know what was really good

was the art where everyone just looked like a statue. I could not square the circle on this. I fucked it up with pubes what an asshole it's a reminder

that we're human I like the unnatural heightened quality right which I guess I understand that his character is unlikable sure I get that

yeah but I'm like why is Rosario Dawson continuing to put up with this yeah it's so but also why is that in the movie

like what significance does that actually have that has no metaphorical significance even his explanation doesn't make any sense did you put up with this? Yeah, it's so, but also what, why is that in the movie? Like what significance does that actually have? It has no metaphorical significance. Even his explanation doesn't make any sense. You're like, okay. I would agree with everything you just said,

but the answer is, the answer is, there's no, this movie isn't really bad or anything anyway. So I guess something has to be removed. When you have the full, the full push shot,

the first, right? There's a big pan down. She's walking down the hallway. It's this like, she's. Yeah. Right? There's a big pan down. She's walking down the hallway. It's this like, she's incredibly glamorous. Right. And everything about that scene is so weird that you're like, I guess this is just one of those movies that has an incredibly bizarre sex scene.

And then the more they go back to it and you're like, this is a central plot point. This is kind of the key to the whole thing. Yeah. It's going to keep on being discussed and shown. It's wild because, yes, it doesn't tie into anything

larger thematically. They just choose that that is, it's like a totem. It's the totem. It's the loaded die. But this is what I love about Rosario Dawson. Yeah.

The amount of dignity she gives this character. Right. Like, and this is why she's like unfuckwithable. Right. Because you think about like,

because she's had other sex scenes like in Alexander, like that, which was an insane because they're like fighting each other. Another perfect example of one of the most bizarre. She's a feral animal.

Yeah. He has to like tame her. Yeah. I mean it's dark side. Yeah. But like Rosario's that bitch. Like she's just like you can't make me

like she like it's it feels even though like another director another actor like that could feel I mean it's but it doesn't feel like exploitative It just feels bizarre

Very substantive about her I think if this movie took place in New York It would actually feel weirder Because it's a Euro movie You do kind of have that Everyone's fucking weird there Let me give you the Danny Boyle quote on this nudity You used to see this kind of nudity all the time

Certainly in European movies I'm going to push back immediately You see this kind of nudity The female form I agree with that If he said you used to see nudity all the time This kind is an absurd statement The film world

I'm going to continue the quote Has supposedly become a lot more purian about explicit nudity because porn is everywhere and movies want to separate themselves from porn. That's the official line in the movie industry. Sure. So films have basically stopped

using sex as an engine for stories. If you stop and think about it, you realize sex is rarely present in any mainstream films. Wait, is sex the engine or is she the engine? It's two engines, okay? She's the engine and sex is the gnaws button.

Oh, God. I mean, that's actually accurate because after that happens, it just went, oof. I'm a great film critic. That's the kind of insight I provide. Scenes like the one in Don't Look Now, the famous sex scene

between Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland, they wouldn't happen anymore. I'm not talking about specialist art house movies that cater to a small audience. Outside of that, sex has become a big taboo again. Before it was for moralistic reasons. Now it's put clear water

between it and the porn industry. I've never heard anyone express that specific thought that porn has become so mainstream that movies want to stay away from porn. I don't know that that's the answer. I don't either. But it's not an uninteresting concept. Yeah. Okay, so that was a quote stay away from porn. I don't know that that's the answer. I don't either. But it's not an uninteresting concept.

Yeah. Okay, so that was a quote from 10 years ago. Let me check my notes now. Every day, someone new goes viral on Twitter for saying, if you watch sex scenes, you should be arrested. Couples in movies should be married in real life. Yes. Wait, what?

Dude, it's not important, but all the time on Twitter, like teenagers are like, it's insane that anyone has sex on screen. Like, how exploitative and, you know, like, there's this weird, like… That's so funny because a number of actors I talk to who are, you know, a number of them women talking about how, like, the erotic thriller space. And a number of people I talk to in Hollywood who are like, yeah, we kind of got to, like… And it's not like a lurid thing. It's literally like sex is a huge part of our psychology and our lives. And we're just not in movies anymore.

Have you seen Magic Mike's Last Dance yet? I have a ticket for tomorrow, 3 p.m., Alamo Draft House. Okay, amazing. This will come out after. Yes, it will have been out. This film is not coming out before 3 p.m. tomorrow. Yes. You have some editing to do, Ben.

I saw it at Alamo Draft House. They did a rowdy screening. Did you go to that one? Oh, yes. Did you get accosted? I didn't get accosted. I did text Dave. I did text Dave and said, I think I'm the only straight man here.

I feel pretty confident in that assessment. That's great. They gave out dollar bills to throw at the screen. Really? Yep. Oh, that's fun. Not Alamo bucks. Oh, Alamo bucks.

They had abs on them. Sure. Where a president would be. We should do that, actually. We should put abs on our dollar bill. Yeah, Alamo. They had abs on them. Sure. Where a president would be. We should do that, actually. We should put abs on our dollar bill. Yeah, we should. Or at least like our shirtless, you know, whatever. It should be waist up photos of the president shirtless in yoke. Yeah.

But the woman who worked at the Alamo came out before the screening and was like, look, it's a rowdy screening. So we're not going to kick people out who talk, but like be respectful, this and that. And then she offered this I think unnecessary qualifier where she was like and it's not maybe

a movie where you're going to be yelling the whole time it's a bit of a slow burn like you'll get there with the dance sequences but the movie takes its time

five minutes into Magic Mike's Last Dances possibly and you know maybe I'm being hyperbolic because I just saw this film it's one of the

sexiest things I have ever seen in a movie. Yes, I can't wait. Five minutes in and you just felt the entire audience buzzing of like, fuck, we never see this anymore. There's no nudity. It is not. No, but it's very, very intense.

Ostensibly a sex scene. It's like a tooth shaving scene in Handmaid's Tale. A little bit. It's more overt than that. Whoa, okay. But it is like you watch it it's it's a dance sequence that is the sexiest thing you've ever seen i love this i can't wait and there's something about uh the the energy of watching that in a crowd of other people rather than watching it

huddled over a laptop being like well i i can watch this because my parents aren't here yeah yeah this is fine um i have some more quotes that are actually really funny. Okay, one boils quote about if we're looking for themes here. It contains within it the idea that of violent control that Simon James McAvoy has as an instinct.

He wants to shape her in his image. What's interesting for me is how she uses the power of his fantasy. David, you misread that. Shave her in his image.'s interesting for me is how she uses the power of his fantasy david you misread that uh shave her in his image but that i guess that like that's why we see the asshole scene of him being like i just like it when you know like and she's retained that and known that will like hypnotize him and like that's feeding into a sort of misogynistic idea of control oh my god i'm you know like right i you know i guess there's something there no i don't know if this was a

mystery on my part but obviously the movie at the end is throwing a lot of shit out at you i also felt like to some degree in that final swath in which she's kind of claiming the narrative and the whole movies from her right that it feels like part of this for her was this whole long con she was running was also this experiment of like can i hypnotize him into only being the parts of him i liked right these conflicts you hear about like people who are caught in abusive relationships physically abusive relationships, physically abusive relationships, where they're like, but you don't understand

he wasn't like that all the time. There was a version of him that was really great. Right? And when we're seeing those like flashbacks to the early parts of their relationship

where you're like, oh, they do have real chemistry in these scenes. Yeah. And it's not like the weird stilted noir chemistry that they have in their early scenes

within the running time. Right. You're like chronologically the earliest scenes you see the thing there. They are charming back and forth with each other on dates and then he becomes incredibly scary. And part of this thing for her is like, can I shape him in my image?

Is there a way to like psychologically get all the bad things out of him? And that's sort of, as much as this movie is about anything it's maybe about like how much can you actually control who you are who other people are interesting and again like good for a trashy kind of like movie

about control like I yeah I I'm sorry these quotes are just too good please one Rosario Dawson I don't know if you guys know this I was unaware refers to her vagina as the general I have heard this I'm so happy for her. I am too. That's a good bit. I'm not sure if it's after the Buster Keaton film.

No, I think it's because her vagina hangs out with Shaq a lot. Waxing hurts. I wasn't thrilled about that. The general. See what I mean? It should have been a waxing scene. It should have been. The general was angry with me for a little while. She was gnarly. She was mad.

I don't know. I can't think of it. I'm going to get myself in trouble. Got the winter dew going on now. I'm happy. Great quote from Rosaria Dawson. Winter dew. Here's McAvoy coming in on pubes.

I'm sorry. I just got to give you this pube run. Give me the pubes. McAvoy. I think a lot of men shave their um. Key word there. I think a lot of men shave their um, word there I think a lot of men shave their um Their balls and their shaft

But that's just for pornos Which are still technically movies With Simon a woman shaving is what he prefers It's part of his fantasy The reason he likes it is a little deeper than what my most guys Apparently like it He has a classical artistically related aesthetic I don't know if most guys do like it

By the way I think people in porn films seem to like it I don't know if most guys do like it. By the way, I think people in porn films seem to like it. I don't know if it's necessarily what people want. James McAvoy seems to be having a nervous breakdown. He's like, maybe people in porn films like it. I mean, I don't know. That's so funny. I was going to say, JJ, our researcher, prepares these dossiers weeks,

sometimes even months in advance of the episode. Also totally shaved. JJ. Hairless. Naked mole wrap. Neo in the Matrix when he wakes up. Yeah, he just fucking cuts through water. No resistance. So he was like doing this research

months ago, right? And I feel like two full months ago JJ texts us out of nowhere, and he's like, guys, look, I know the trance episode is like 10 away. I just have to send you this right now and send us the general quotes.

He just had the energy of like, I can't not have someone process this in real time with me. I love it. The general. What I love is that James is clearly grasping for some sense without showing his own preferences

yeah why can't he just say like me I like a bush now this freak I'm playing like I guess he wants to fuck a Greek statue I don't know what to do also just like the characterization of like well he likes shape it's pretty deep actually

it's pretty intellectual deeper than other guys why they like it maybe they don't maybe they don't porn they seem to but there's a movies my character likes Bukkake but only because it reminds me of Jackson Pollock it's actually a pretty deep like heady

thing apparently this is a Boyle quote Fassbender indeed was in talks for the Vincent Cassell role but then apparently insisted that he wanted to play the Rosario Dawson role. Truly? Truly. That's what Danny Boyle says. Okay.

After James is cast? Yes, I believe so. I don't. Okay. Let me, let me know. Interesting. Okay. I feel like, um,

him explaining James McAvoy hitting him has a very will have a very different energy than yes if that had yeah I think it would have had to be I think it's also

and it's just like from a looking obviously abuse comes in all shapes and forms and from anyone and to anyone but no go ahead Michael Fassbender

could be the shit out of James McAvoy Michael Fassbender Could be the shit Out of James McAvoy Michael Fassbender Is a big strong man And James McAvoy Is a little more Shrimpy Right

And I just feel I feel so scared For everyone And Walt Yes Wow That's wild What year was this

2013 2012 Yeah Or 2011 Maybe Yeah And he was doing Fish Tank came out In 2009 2010 I think it was 2013 2012 Yeah Or finishing Or 2011 Maybe Yeah And he was doing

Fishtank came out When 2009 2010 Fishtank And he also would have had One of these under his belt One of the X-Men He'd done an X-Men

He'd probably done Shane Obviously he'd done Glorious Bastards and stuff But like I feel like He was doing a lot of stuff Fast fast

You know what Do you think he Do you think he and James, because if you look at their decision making at that stage, they kind of popped at the same time. Like Jane Eyre and Centurion. And James was like, boop. But then Fast and Furious kind of vanished.

But that's even, when they got announced in X-Men, it was like, oh, they're fucking calling it. These are the two guys. You know, this is like the generation. This is the other thing he did. They tried to hypnotize all the cast. They had a hypnotherapist come. Who was susceptible?

McAvoy and Cassell both say it didn't really work for them, sadly. Boyle refused. He was like, I'm a control freak. I don't want to do that. But Dawson enjoyed it and said that it took her on a journey of self-discovery. She talked to her absent father. She did a session with a psychic.

I think Rosario Dawson's maybe a little more open as a person spiritually to all kinds of experiences. He's a New York kid, man. And so that's interesting. They shot it in East London, the movie, just FYI, where the Olympics are happening, basically. This movie has this like Docklands aesthetic, which I like.

Like England's Docklands, London's Docklands are this weird, like sort of post-industrial, you know, glass and metal and like, kind of feels fake. And like, I feel like it works in the movie. I like the way this movie looks. I love the way the movie looks. I like the way it's shot too. That's the thing I love about Danny Boyle

that I really appreciate about this movie. It's like, he'll do shots, and you're like, what is, how did you think of that? It's Anthony Dodd-Mantle again, right? It's who he did Slumdog in 127 Hours and, you know, 28 Days Later with.

But he does, like, I think, challenge himself to think of interesting ways to shoot things. I mean, 127 H hours is the peak of that where it's like, oh, I'm challenging myself to specifically make a movie that takes place in a crevice and keep it cinematic. But there is that

thing where it's like, it does feel like he's allergic to just sort of standard coverage. And even if I don't totally understand the intended effect of a shot, I can tell there's thought. Obviously, they're shooting this on digital

because Boyle's always been very like, digital's the future, man. I'm doing it. This is Dodd-Mantle, right? It's Dodd-Mantle. And they... As you might have noticed,

the movie's lots of mirrors, lots of reflective surfaces, glass, lots of double, triple images. But there's no thematic symbolism there. Yeah, exactly. Our brains refracted.

Oh, man. Now, can we even talk through the plot of this movie? I don't know. I kind of need you to because I'm going to be honest. I could not watch this movie. Wait, what do you mean? Your eyes just slipped off the screen? My phone just kept going to my eyes.

I just couldn't pay attention to this movie. Do you want to hear chronologically or in the order of the film? What happened? Ben? Choose one. Which would you rather? What's going to be the least convoluted? Chronologically.

Chronologically. Let's do that. Okay, so this is a guy. His name is James McAvoy or something. Let's call him James McAvoy. James McAvoy, and he's a gambling addict and so he goes to hypnotist. He also doesn't seem like a degenerate like McAvoy does You can tell he's a gambling addict because he's going all in I love how that's how you know You know, I just had a gambling problem all in and it's like, all right we get it he was all in

And I love that they have one little bit of him playing poker on his computer at work. And I was like, oh, I thought he was just playing a game. And then, of course, he's a gambling addict. He's in debt. He's like, what am I going to do? I need to stop this. And so he goes to hypnotist. And then they fall in love.

And she has a very unethical, inappropriate relationship with her client. He becomes abusive. And so she starts to hypnotize him to forget her. Because he just can't leave her alone. And then she's pissed. She wants revenge. Their sessions are ongoing. Yes.

Which is at the end, which is hilarious. Even though they are romantically involved. And he's abusing her. Even though he has hit her in the course of their relationship, the sessions are still happening. And only then she's like, so I started to mess with the sessions so he would forget. That is the most surprising choice in the movie, almost, is that then she's like so I started to mess with the session so he would forget that is the most

surprising choice in the movie almost is that when she's like so then I had to train him to forget me and it's not like she's hypnotizing him in their bedroom

he's in the office of her practice that's why in the monologue they add that at the end she says this whole thing and then she's like we were still doing

the session because he insisted and I was like, okay, you couldn't say that earlier because then I'd be too busy thinking about how that doesn't make any sense.

But anyway, so she trains him or she hypnotizes him to forget him. But then she's pissed. She wants revenge. So she's like, you're going to steal me a painting.

I don't know why that needed to happen in any way, shape, or form. What that would get her, I'm not really sure, but that's her plan.

I mean, get a masterwork in your apartment. That's pretty, you know, pretty special. Oh, she wanted something to show for the relationship i guess or something yeah but it does i mean the implication at the end is that she was originally wanting the painting for the money and now she attaches too much emotional value to it the whole journey and doesn't plan on selling it. Listen, Griffin.

It's about the journey. It's about the journey. And then she's supposed to find out where it is. But then he gets hit in the head by Vincent Cassell. And that fucks up everything. And so from that point on, she's also kind of assed out like everyone else. And so she goes and she

tries to get it out of his head. He has to have sex with several people for this to happen. And shave her badge. And then he remembers everything. Tries to kill her and Vincent Cassell. Vincent Cassell does not blow up, even though he's in a very hot car. He gets out. Yeah, he survives.

Wait, can I tell you my favorite moment in the movie? Where he's in the water and she goes, Are you okay? And he goes, No! I was like, that's the most honest beat of this entire film but some other crazy plot points

because this movie has a lot of things going on so it's not Vincent Cassell it's the other guy who the drug

dealer is how McAvoy gets linked to Cassell basically says he realizes he wants to pull this heist. He doesn't know any criminals, but he knows a drug dealer

who then refers him to his unsavory French friend with animalistic sexual energy. I mean, that's all he's got, Vincent. Right. And that McAvoy's trance is successful until the point where, because it's an inside job, McAvoy has to play

act trying to stop Cassell, but McAvoy gets overzealous, zaps Cassell. No, he sees Cassell about to open the thing. Oh, right. That they remember at the end, yeah. Okay. Where you probably retired and were like, what's on the delivery? There are a lot of things to cover. I've only tranced

once at this point. But he zaps him, so then Cassell knocks him out, and then that unlodges the thing in his brain, the cage that was

keeping the memories. So then when he walks out, he's so enraged, he gets the text from Rosario Dawson saying, bring it to me now, but he's becoming unhinged

and he's remembering her, and then a woman hits him with a car and tries to help him. The Great Tuppence Middleton. Who I love. He is then convinced that she is Rosario Dawson, and now he's so fucking angry

because he remembered that she got angry at him for being an asshole and an abuser that he strangles Tuppence Middleton to death. In the middle of the street, in the middle of the day, and no one notices. Just drives her car with her dead body next to him into a parking lot

and then shoves her in the trunk along with the rolled up painting. When did they open that trunk? That is nasty. Horrendous image. Pretty good makeup effects in this film when Ren needed. She's gotten beetle juiced. Yes. I mean, she juicy.

She juicy. No doubt about that. So this movie presents it to us that when McAvoy wakes up, they're like, he has amnesia. He genuinely doesn't remember where this thing is.

And Cassell's like, we need to get the information out of him without obviously alerting the police what we're trying to find. And we can't kill him. So we have to hire

a hypnotherapist to somehow unlock this in him. And he lets him choose one which doesn't make sense. Cassell goes, why did you choose her? He goes, I don't know. Which we later find hire a hypnotherapist to somehow unlock this in him. And he lets him choose one, which doesn't make sense. Cassell goes, why did you choose her? He goes, I don't know. Which we later find out it's like the eternal sunshine. Somehow he's just drawn to her. Right. Even though the memory is suppressed. What's her last name again?

She has a convocative last name. Lamb. Lamb. Dr. Lamb. Dr. Lamb. Right. Slow horse is good. But then within the film, we find out that she went to Cassell, because she then makes McAvoy think, I want in, I can tell you're in danger. I should be cut in on this.

Instead, you find out that she went to Cassell and was like, here's what you're going to do. Send him to me. Wait, I missed that. He has to think that I'm holding... She says this thing about like, he needs to think that I've genuinely seized power. He can't think that he's cutting me in.

He has to think that I have you seized power. He can't think that he's cutting me in. He has to think that I have you guys under my boot. Which we can do if you tap a wire to him and then I... Wait, when does that happen? I totally missed that. He's got a wire taped to his chest and she comes in with a flash card. Oh, no, no. We know that. I don't remember the part where she was like, Vincent, what did you have to do?

There's the part where you see her, because she reads in the newspaper about the robbery and he's like the hero guard then there's a scene there's a flashback to her taking Vincent Cassell out to dinner and she's like I'm gonna

act like I'm taking control of this but you took him out to dinner wow I've been hypnotized by the film I'm trying to remember this too I don't remember this is a real movie where you have to like Gesture with two hands Like this

Kind of like You have to explain it physically Yeah Yeah But they are definitely Doing a thing where she's like If we can trigger His jealousy

Right By You know McAvoy's jealousy Yeah That will Put him under my control But it's this

Where did you put this thing And then the hammer blows the shaved pussy. What? Right, well, of course. The where did you put this thing, which they mask as like your keys, so it keeps on coming back to the car, which they're using as like a substitute object,

because obviously they don't want to say stolen painting. Right. But then you realize, oh, it's because he's also suppressed the memory of where he put the dead body. It would have been funny if they just went with Goya instead, but then he went and got beans like out of a cupboard or something. Yes.

Right. That would have been a funny joke moment. What's that? Would that have been good? Are we sure? Yeah. Is that what it was? My question.

But you listen, I feel like we all have our gifts. He can't unlock where the painting is because the painting is tied to the suppressed trauma of the crime he committed. Now, you're reading into things in a very special way

because I don't even know if the movie went that far. They're both in the same trunk and he keeps on talking about the red car and the car keys. I feel like you're basically, but see,

this is what's funny. It's like, that could have been tracked. I mean, all of it's crazy, but that could have been tracked also better. Like,

where it's like, oh, I'm suppressing, I'm suppressing a violent act. Not so much. But I think I've killed my lover. I don't, I read it more as

whatever remnants of her previous hypnotism that worked for him to try to suppress the violent parts of him has already sort of by force forgotten the crime he committed and because the painting and the dead body are in the same trunk that's why he can't unlock

it because they keep on going like what is the thing holding him back is it that he's worried she's also not really sure what the fuck's going on that was my read because it's like her following him to the car at the end with Cassell despite knowing he's a homicidal maniac and all the shit it's like her following him to the car at the end with cassell despite knowing he's a homicidal maniac and all the shit it's like why would she put herself in danger and the answer is

because it's like there's no other way to crack this she keeps on saying like he can't remember because he's worried that you're gonna kill him after you get the painting so there's a part of himself protecting himself and i read it as like the final piece missing is that like, the trauma and the shame is linked to painting. Because it's all in the same vehicle. I don't know. I mean, it's like one of these things where it's like, I don't know if I'm

reading too much into it or I'm missing 15 things. No, I think it's fine to read that into it. Especially since they make the art so prominent. The painting being stolen is the Goya painting, which is in the air, which is really cool. But it's this blind man

walking beneath these witches who are flying in the air, and I guess there's some sort of thematic man being led by women under their spell kind of thing going on there. Sure. What room was she in at the end? She's in a yellow room now.

I don't know. She sends an iPad video to Vincent Cassell. She sends an entire iPad that is rigged with a video. She's like Batman or something. It's got two things, video and trance. Those are your two options.

It's got a video and an app. And then touches I guess the screen Like the icons don't appear over the video Well you know what Listen she's a tech guy It's like Mirage from the Incredibles The weird thing is she actually programmed The iPad while she was shaving her vagina

In that way She did it all at the same time See here's another thing I'm still caught up on this. She used an electric razor. You just... But she waxed in real life. I'm like, at the very least,

you should hear the water turn on. I know. You know? What's funny is that when you hear... I'm upset. When you hear... You're like, I get it. He can't show me the vagina on screen,

so you have to have a sound effect that allows us to fill in our minds. And then he's like... And then he shows it, and you're just like, well, then you could have just had running tap water. You could have a tap water with a few, the sound of the Bic, the Venus against the sun.

It might just be a, maybe run some of this stuff by women next time when you're writing your script or doing your post. Anyway, look. What if it's a hot foam machine? Because those might make a noise. Yeah, you know, like a warm foam Like, device What?

Yeah Keep saying foam It's crazy You mean rather than like A classic shaving cream We don't do that We don't put hot lather in other regions How do you shave?

What is your face? Clearly I love this in other regions. How do you shave? What is your face? Do you go to like a 1950s barber? I love this. Do you do, you know... I just do it with an electric razor. Right. Everyone's lazy.

But I know that this device exists. Right. Can we look up who's sponsoring this episode? Because if it isn't Manscaped, we should get them in on it. We should actually try to reorganize the order. And I can't wait to send that email because right now it's only Indeed,

the job hiring guys. Okay, yeah. Let's send them and say, like, we really think Manscaped will get a huge bump from this episode. No, this is what it should be. She should go, hold on one second.

We'll be back in a moment. She closes the door and then you just hear her go, ew, ouch, ouch, ouch. Or she uses Nair and she says chemical burns afterwards. Yeah, and then she walks out and she's sort of like,

oh, sore. Her whole middle is wet Right She sends this video to Vincent Cassell She's got the ripped up like toilet paper Alright She sends a video and she's basically like Nice painting right

Have it hanging on my wall now You can come find me I thought I would find this traumatic. No, I hope you do. Yeah. Or you can forget everything. But I also don't, I don't,

I won't judge you if you want to forget that you ever knew me, but I may be in love with you. If so, press trans button. Right. I've chosen to not sell this painting for a hundred million dollars

because it reminds me of you and I guess I'm just corny that way. Sure. So I don't know. If you want to meet me, you know where I am in the yellow room. If not, hit the button and we'll wipe your brain to factory reset. I felt so confused.

Meanwhile, McAvoy dead. In the waters. Waters of England. The waters of England. Those English waters. She trucks him into the water. Yeah, into the waters. That's such a wild, like, Mad Max

move of... To save Mr. Cassell's life. Cassell's just, like, engulfed in flames trying to escape, and she just leaves, and you're like, what's going on? Oh, she's gonna get, like, a forklift to push the car into the water in the hopes that Cassell's able to escape in time. Yeah, because

the fucking car, like, what if he just was like, you know? Yeah, he almost, he barely makes it out. Yeah, because the fucking car, like, what if he just was like, you know? Yeah, he almost, he barely makes it out. Yes. Yes. There's something going on in this movie. There's stuff going on. I have so much fun watching it. Someone gets shot in the dick. That is true. Real.

It's, um, real. Yeah, isn't it? It's Danny Cipani gets shot in the dick, right? Um, yeah, That's kind of I mean I guess it's in that Theater of the mind sequence But when McAvoy

Shoots the guys Through the shadows Of the glass Oh yeah that is That's a cool Kind of thing Yes The violence in this movie

In general Is fun and lurid Like I like The violence in this movie Yes And that effect Is so good And so simple

on Cassell missing the top half of his head being blown off. Yeah. I believe they just shot a prosthetic and shot a plate of him and then combined the two. Nice. But, like, the brain guts. I think it's a... I remember seeing some VFX breakdown

where that was a physical thing that was built. Oh, they scan it and they booped on. Yeah. Yeah. And boop is the technical term. Yes. They boop there. I got Sean Bobbitt saying boop, though.

You got him. You're like, can you boop this? Yeah, I'm like, let me just boop it here. Let me just boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. We need to boop Ms. Marvel right now. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I just, I, I, I. You love it.

Just don't, don't deny it. I don't dislike it. I, I, I think... You love it. Just don't deny it. I don't dislike it. I think this movie is fun. I do think the fair critique is like, I don't know if I can reach deep for you on what this is about. No. I wonder if I had just done the Olympics. I keep thinking Oscars, Olympics, opening ceremony.

And I just wanted to make a movie, I could see myself getting taken in by like a... You mean like if you had just done this super serious thing and it's like, all right, Nia. Yeah. Well, that's sort of like, right, that theory that like every movie is a direct response to their previous film in some way.

They're either following what worked for them or trying to go in the opposite direction of that. And it's like, this is him simultaneous with the Olympics, which is so much pressure and such a thing that is bigger than any one movie could ever be. I do think there's an interesting thought to this being like a psychological split for him

where he's like, I need a trash can to exercise all of this so none of this is in my system when I'm working with the queen it's a spit bucket what did he do after this again? after this movie he makes Steve Jobs which is him sort of going back to a safer zone

but also he's jumping into and we'll talk about that movie plenty but like he's jumping into a Fincher project you know with a script that's written and all that. You know, like, so like, you know, that's not an entirely Boyle-generated project. And then after that, he does Trainspotting 2, which is a little more the sort of like...

That came out during the pandemic. No, it didn't. It came out in 2017 and just no one remembers that it exists. And then he did Yesterday. Did it come out? Oh, what? Yeah.

Yeah. And then since then,. Did it come out? Oh, what? Yeah. And then since then he has done a television miniseries and he has not done another movie. Trust and Pistols. Yeah. About the sex pistols.

That show was fun. I watched it. There you go. Ben enjoyed it. Yeah, my mom loved it. All right. She said it was the best TV show

she's ever seen. Ever? I was surprised. Okay. When I saw Matilda the Musical in theaters, I turned to my friend and I said,

this is the best movie I've ever seen. That movie rules. That movie is fantastic. That is one of the strangest things that's ever happened. It's so good.

Is Netflix like, being like, I guess we made this. And you're like, this is fantastic. I'm so mad at Netflix for their general attitude about the amazing shit

that comes on the platform I'm like come on you can't do everything the same right but we can't talk about this wait can I ask a question yes

anything in the scene where he's in the hospital and a white doctor shows up with all of his Asian like students

or like residents or whatever the fuck they're called what the fuck was that commentary like did you remember this I do it's a sequence where he's like right you ready to get out of the hospital and James McAvoy's like huh he's like you know

what's your name he's like I don't know James McAvoy he's like you seem good see you later alright and his students follow him behind him I don't know if there's obviously there are many many many Asian doctors in Britain but I don't know if that's and they're all Asian yeah well obviously there are many many many Asian doctors in Britain but I don't know if that's supposed to be a commentary

on anything is this like a this is the future you better fund the NHS like and allow immigration or was it like possibly lol

why are there so many Asians I was like I'm confused I don't know I'm scared this was another thing I was confused by and maybe I shouldn't be looking for answers here

but like when the movie, the order in which things are presented to us in the movie, right? They first want us to make the jump that it's like, Cassell knocks him out. He's lying on the floor, bleeding out. And then the next thing that happens, he wakes up in the hospital. And they're

like, congratulations, we kept you alive. Do you remember anything? But then the movie later fills in, no, Cassell knocks him out. He gets up off the floor. He runs out into the street. Hell knocks him out. He gets up off the floor. He runs out into the street. He gets the text message. He gets hit by the car. He gets in the car. He chokes a woman. He drives the car to a parking lot. He leaves it

there. And then at what point is he found? Does he end up in the hospital? At what point does he actually get amnesia? Right. I'm like, when does his actions stop? He's choking her and while he's choking her, he's like, I'm sort of starting to forget what the deal is. He didn't drive the car.

Puts her car in the trunk. Does he like, does he then walk to the hospital from the parking lot and go like, hey, I can't remember anything. He might be hungry. I mean, he's had, he's had a day so far. Maybe he stops and gets a bite to eat. No, no, you're right. You know, he actually, yeah, he goes to Burger King.

Right. He gets a Cheeky Nando's. He gets a Cheeky Nando's. He eats it. Yeah. He tips. Yeah. You know. He's eating loamy fries. Which you don't do normally In Britain, no, not really 12% they have though

Yeah, 10-12% And then he walks to I remember my little pound coin as a tip Thinking I was such a grown up when I was like 14 years old And then yeah He maybe does some shopping Right, right A few weeks pass

I mean but the thing is like anything could happen I'm not an entirely compost mentis here it's like the Jay Leno interview I'm obsessed with

did you watch that thing which one I sent it I sent it to you and the Doughboys because we were half of our conversations and our group text

are about Jay Leno but Jay Leno had the horrible accident recently where one of his classic cars caught on fire and he caught on fire, right? Wait, really? Oh, yes.

He went up in flame? Ben, this is what's crazy about it, okay? If I can talk about this for a second. Sure. And this is very important and on topic. We're almost done, right? Okay, good, yes. He didn't do an interview For like two months, right?

And then went on the Today Show And his interview With Gayle King She came to his garage, right? He's got his huge Jay Leno garage The infamous garage, the titular garage, right? He was underneath one of his cars That looked like the car that Goofy rides

I'm sorry, the beginning of the interview Is him underneath one of his cars and he slides out? No, no, this is the story of what happened. But he's still in the garage and the car's still there, right? He was underneath the car working on it and there was some faulty thing and like a fireball exploded. His friend, who seems to be like

the guy he hires to help him with the cars all the time, he goes like, hey, like, can you get me out from under here? I'm on fire. And he's like, oh, Jay, what a cut up.

Making these jokes about being on fire because of his tone of voice did not seem to have any urgency. Right. He wasn't like, oh my God,

I'm on fire. So he rolls Jay out and Jay is engulfed in flames. And he asks, Gil King asked the French, he was like, how was it? He was like,

really bad. I cannot tell you how disturbing it was and Jay's like well you know things happen no one should feel bad for me I've had a good life

and then she's like Jay wasn't scary and he's like no you know and he's like so then what happened he was like I hugged Jay

I patted him down I tried to engulf the flames then he ran to the bathroom and he came out and his flesh was falling off his face right and she was like

so what did you do next, Jay? And he was like, well, I drove home. He was like, what do you mean you drove home? You didn't call an ambulance? He was like, no, I didn't want to be a bother.

It's like, what? He's like, well, my wife, she doesn't drive and I, you know, I didn't want to pick up a phone. His wife doesn't drive? Yeah. What if you're married to Jay Leno?

So he was like, I just drove home. Does he have like a chauffeur? I guess you don't need to. I drove myself home. And it's like, with flesh falling off of you? And then he got home and his wife was like, what the fuck happened? I mean, I caught on fire. What Does he have like a chauffeur? I guess you don't need to. I drove myself home. And it's like with flesh falling off of you. And then he got home and his wife was like,

what the fuck happened? I mean, I'm like caught on fire. What did he look like in the interview? Did he have like bandages and stuff? He's got... Extensive reconstruction. You know, like, you know... Skin graphing.

I mean, he looks okay now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was like... His wife was like, why aren't you at the hospital? He said, I didn't want to... I didn't want you to worry about me. I didn't want to bother.

She had to like talk him into going to the hospital the next morning. And then he got to the hospital and they were like, you should have come here immediately. I didn't want to to worry about me. I didn't want to bother. She had to like talk him into going to the hospital the next morning. And then he got to the hospital and they were like, you should have come here immediately. I didn't want to be anyone's problem. And then he spent like two months in like a sensory deprivation tank

and they were like reconstructing an ear from his back flesh and everything. Oh my God. But there was just no urgency to this whatsoever. And Gayle King was like, why do you keep making jokes about this? No one wants to hear me be serious. And she's like, Jay, you almost died. And he's like, no urgency to this whatsoever. And Gayle King was like, why do you keep making jokes about this? No one wants to hear me be serious. And she's like, Jay, you almost died.

He's like, no, it's fine. And then he takes out a copy of the National Enquirer and is like, look at these weird headlines they did about me. Jay Leno caught in flames. I mean, that's ridiculous, right? She was like, no, it doesn't sound ridiculous. It sounds like you caught on fire.

I don't know. I don't enjoy this. This makes me concerned for his mental health. I know. It doesn't want to be a bother. Anyway, it reminded me of James McAvoy in this, who just keeps on doing more things after getting injured. I felt like this movie was like a party.

Your friend won't let you leave. Just keeps going and going. You're like, what's going to happen? And you're like, I got to go. And he's like, no, I got one more thing to show you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh my God. And then eventually someone's dead.

And you're like trying to tell him then eventually Someone's dead And you're like Trying to tell him Like I have to go To the bathroom Right You're pointing at the bathroom You're like You're reangling over

To the bathroom Right you're doing The thing where you Kind of like You're like Anyway Yeah like yeah You're moving your whole body

Towards it Right It's a relentless film I like it I think it's pretty fun But I don't think It's one of his better films No it's not But. But I don't think it's one of his better films. No, it's not.

But, you know, you compare this to Yesterday. This feels thoroughly like a Danny Boyle movie. Yeah. He's trying a lot of things. Yesterday was very... Yeah, it doesn't really... Hemish Patel is like big... He's a handsome boy.

I got no beef with him. I like him. Yeah, but like... I was watching Station Eleven and he's so good in it. But like... Yesterday is maudlin and kind of unenergetic. boy I got no beef with him I like him yeah but like I was watching Station Eleven and he's so good in it but like yesterday is maudlin and kind of unenergetic

like the whole thing with Boyle is I'm like the guy at least always has pizzazz like yeah even if maybe

I don't love the material and like you know Steve Jobs is Boyle doing Sorkin like there's another major author there

what did I say it's a masterpiece it's a masterpiece I It's a masterpiece. I like DC Jobs a lot too, actually. It feels like a Boyle movie, whereas yesterday you're like, this is Danny Bold directing a Richard Curtis film. That's a Richard Curtis film, right?

Yes, it is. And it's like, that's the franchise he's serving. Why? Did he talk about... I mean, I guess you'll talk about this. He said he made it as a tribute to teachers. I've never understood that comment. I'm obsessed with that comment.

Isn't there also that quote we read where he was obsessed with Notting Hill and was just sort of like, I want to make one of these at some point. He has, right. He has long been like, wow, rom-coms. Like, you know,

those things are crazy. I love them. Yeah. I can't imagine how you make one of those. And then he did yesterday and you're like, it's not your strong suit, I suppose. Yeah, I guess you also couldn't imagine

how to make one. What's he going to do next? Tell me. I don't know and I would love him to make another Miss Saigon gets talked about the Methuselah action movie with Michael B. Jordan

yes that has long been gestating these are the couple things he's been like actively still talking about obviously he came very close to doing The Last James Bond that like ate up a lot of his life because he redeveloped I mean he developed

The whole script Yeah But that took him Out of the loop For like a year and a half Two years And then he's just Been doing these

You know fucking FX shows And it's like You know whatever Anyway we'll talk more About it but Well I guess yeah I mean at this point

In the podcast Well there's still Three films to discuss Yeah But it's starting to... We are starting to get to the Danny, what are we going to do phase. Are you finding a new appreciation for him as you do this?

I've always liked him. I don't know if I find a new appreciation, but I am enjoying watching all of them. But there is this part of him... A movie like this, though, I'm like, look, if something like this came out right now, would it go over great? Probably no but like there is just the sort of like energetic erotic thriller thing it's just sort of enough to make a24 release this tomorrow on a thousand screens there would at

least be energetic debate around it whereas it would at least get a response like men or people who hated it were like, I really want to dig into this. Rather than trans where it just felt people being like, fuck this movie. The other thing is 28 months or years later is the other thing they keep saying. Those are the three he kind of

keeps talking about. Because Kelly Murphy is hotter than ever. And they supposedly have an idea. That's certainly right. I was making a joke to my friend and I was like, my sexuality is Cillian Murphy

screaming Selena in the stairwell in 20 Days Later when he's running from zombies. I'm like, that's what I need in my life.

I may end up screaming my name to Selena in the stairwell. It is, you know, I'm not going to say this, he's just unbelievably beautiful.

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Watching that film again, it's just like... He looks like a precious moment stall with piercing eyes. And a Skrillex haircut.

And a Skrillex haircut. I don't know. Do you have general Danny Bull thoughts? I love him. I think he's a genius. I think he's... I love... I'm a little jealous of directors

who are like huge stylists like because I find it so one it just takes so much longer to shoot movies like that yes and you have to be so I just

I don't know it just there are so many movies now and they all sort of are the same and they all follow the same fucking

you know sort of like hero's journey and they all sort of are shot the same it's just like here's a medium close-up oh we're gonna start with a lie then wait establish this location you know it's all like yeah and with him you always know you're gonna get something that's special and feels unique and it feels like him and it feels like an actual point of view and a real person's like or person's real demented brain and i think that's special and i i love filmmakers like that yeah i mean look you asked if they're gaining a new appreciation for him i think my

appreciation of him was really high to begin with the thing i've thought about a lot while going through this career is uh just that it feels like it is impossible to make this career happen now. Right. You know? And it would be on streaming. Right, right. And beyond that, that it's like even Danny Boyle

at a certain point, it feels like it started to run dry and it's like, why'd he make... I remember asking you when the Yesterday trailer came out, David, I was like, why is Danny Boyle directing this? And you were like, because he wants to make a movie.

That was my guess. And it is so limited in terms of what movies you can actually get greenlit at a certain level. People don't know what the Beatles are. Anymore. Right. Like, Beatles is a brand name. You know what? Actually, it did do well. It did well. And it's like, that's one of those things where you go like, well, you know

what? His 2010's box office run was kind of rough post-Slumdogdog he never had another like undeniable hit right if yesterday is what it takes to get him out of movie jail then like i'm excited to see what he does next and he has not been able to get another movie off the ground you know yeah i feel like slumdog coming like looking at his filmography before like slumdog is the aberration dav David has made this point, which is Slumdog feels like him winning Best Picture

almost by accident. Yeah, but it's so deserved because he has the mind of someone who does make a movie that is the Best Picture. But it's odd that that film was such a big hit, that it was such a runaway Oscar favorite, that suddenly the narrative became like, well, Danny Boyle, of course,

is overdue when he was never an Oscar-y filmmaker filmmaker he always felt like this edgy kind of like outsider um i don't know it's like yeah i want to i want him to just still be able to run through different genre exercises now and it you just feel like the options are getting more and more limited where it's like you know i like the fact that he walked away from Bond, that he felt like... Right. I'm not going to just like get hammered into the franchise.

I had a specific movie I wanted to make and it feels like that's slipping away from me and I'm going to step away now. Because like at that point in his career, sure, he doesn't need to do this for two years if it's not going to be the movie he wants to make. But also it felt like he knew Bond might be one of the

only ways I get to work on this scale anymore. A Richard Curtis script and having the Beatles music as one of the only ways I get to work on this scale anymore. Like, it still feels like he's looking for the things. Let's play the box office game. Let's play the box office game. We're doing the wide weekend, not the limited, because we've done the limited weekend.

Okay. Relatively recently. So this movie went wide, 500 screens, on April 12th, 2013. It's total gross in America, $2.3 million. What? The movie barely came out here.

Yeah. Wow. It actually did okay internationally. Made 20 internationally. So it made 22 worldwide. I don't know how much it cost, but I can't imagine it was... I think about 20. Cost about 20. Made 20 internationally. So I made 22 worldwide. I don't know how much it cost, but I can't imagine it was... I think about 20.

Cost about 20. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Number one this week, Griffin, is a biopic. 2013. Mm-hmm. It's not... Is it 42?

It's 42. I wanted to see if you could get it just from biopic. Yeah. Sports biopic. Well, I just remember that was a big hit. It was. Big hit. It was. Big hit.

It's opening number one. It's going to make $100 million. Can I ask you a question about that movie? I've never seen it. I saw it. There's a scene where Jackie Robinson gets on the train, and the little black boy is like, wow. And then the train leaves,

and then the little boy puts his ear to the track, and we hold on it, and then he looks at his mother or whoever he's with. And he goes, I can still hear him. What? Exactly. I was like, what? And then it cuts to the next scene.

I was like, so confused. Anyway, that's all I remember. I've seen that film. I don't remember that one. I was so befuddled. Anyway, continue. I just remember that film. You know, obviously it was one of those things where it was like,

why has there never been this movie? Like, why has it never happened? Spike Lee wants to make it. Blah, blah, blah. You know, like, it's finally happening. Brian Heldgeland is making it. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, he's the guy who wrote L.A. Confidential and... Directed Payback, the Mel Gibson movie.

Oh, great. No, Ron Howard directed Payback. Yeah. Ron Howard directed Ransom. Of course. Sorry. Heldgeland did A Knight's Tale as well Knight's Tale which is good which is not the obvious person to direct 42

but again that was the time he wrote and directed it and I just remember being one of those movies where you're like yeah this feels like straight out of the

History Channel or whatever it's like totally fine everyone is very like respectful yeah the X Factor was Chadwick and everyone being like

oh this guy is a genuine find he's really good in it but it's that it was the whole thing with him was that the you know respectful. Yeah, the X Factor was Chadwick and everyone being like, oh, this guy's a genuine find. He's really good in it, but it was the whole thing with him was that the James Brown movies where you were like, oh, he can do something entirely different as well. And he can also play Thurgood Marshall. I remember that was when I was like, is he going to play every iconic black?

And the answer was, yes, and then I'll play a fictional one. And then that will become more iconic. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, it's a fine... Who's the white guy in that? Is it Kevin? Harrison Ford. Or is it Harrison?

Yeah. Okay. Number two at the box office is a comedy sequel. Comedy? New this week. It's not Dumb and Dumber 2, is it? Comedy sequel. It's not Horrible Bosses 2?

No. It's a 2? It's in the spoof world. It is not? No. Comedy sequel. It's not Horrible Bosses 2? No. It's a 2? It's in the spoof world. It is not a 2. It's not a 2? Yeah. Is it Scary Movie 5? It's Scary Movie 5. Wow. That's the Black Swan one? Say so. Wait, I'm obsessed with

the fact that they finally got around to like critically acclaimed non-horror movies. Yeah, it's more like Oscar bait movie. No, seriously. That's Malcolm D. Lee. It's Malcolm D. Lee, right. And I think Black Swan is the main spine of the movie with Ashley Tisdale playing the Natalie Portman. Apparently there's also Paranormal Activity.

Oh, sure. Rise of the Planet of the Apes. Glad they skewered that movie. So scary. Inception. The most terrifying movie. They haunted his brain. Yeah, I don't know. Inception. The most terrifying movie. They haunted his brain. Yeah, I don't know. His dreams.

With machine guns. I love how it was like, this is really intense and metaphysical and metaphorical, but still guns. Big ass guns. You know, dramatic thrust. Number three at the box office is an animated film. Animated film, 2013 2013 Sequel years later

It was a big hit The Croods It's The Croods Yeah Nothing to say about The Croods I saw him Number four is a action sequel Is it a two?

Yes You hesitated Well it doesn't have the word two in the title. Okay, but it is a sequel. It is the second film. It is the second film. Does it have a subtitle? Of course it does.

Legacy? Resurrection? It's an R. Not resurrection. Rebirth? No. Redemption? No.

I feel like if I can get the subtitle, I can reverse engineer the answer. Revolution? No. Revelation? No. Resurrection? I guessed that already. I guessed that one already reverse engineer the answer. Revolution? No. Revelation? No. Resurrection? I guessed that already. Redemption?

No. Returns? No. Good guess. Closer? No. Okay. Direct me on the R word.

Angry. Revenge? Rage? Revenge. Revenge is close. Not redemption. Revenge. It basically means revenge. Revenge? close. Not redemption. Revenge. It basically means revenge.

Even closer. Fuck. Fuck. Retribution, redemption, revenge. Rage. David's gripping. You're just so close with retribution. What am I not thinking of?

This movie. That you've definitely seen. I've definitely seen it? Is it good? No. Okay, great. It's not good and I've definitely seen it. What was the genre you said? Because I talk about it because you think that lowly of me.

You know I've definitely seen it. Because you like toys. Oh, it's G.I. Joe Retaliation. Retaliation. Okay. Which is bad, correct? Yeah. It's not good. You can't defend it. No, it's is bad, correct? Yeah. It's not good.

You can't defend it. No, it's got some good stuff in it. It's not good. Yeah. G.I. Joe Retaliation in its third weekend. Number five at the box office. It's the movie that was opened last week at number one.

It's why we couldn't do last week. Okay. It's a horror remake. We've covered it. It's a horror remake. And we've covered it? Mm-hmm. On the Patreon.

We've covered it on the Patreon we've covered it on the Patreon part of a franchise we've covered on the Patreon I have a guess what's your guess? The Thing? no but very similar to The Thing remake in that it's why are you remaking a masterpiece?

sure they do a better job than The Thing remake in my opinion the thing about The Thing remake in my opinion. The thing about the Thing remake while you're thinking, is that they did the best version of that. Yeah.

Did you say Little Bear? Evil Dead. It's Evil... Oh, but that's good. It is good. I think that's great actually. For the Everest. Yeah, for the Everest.

I don't know shit. What were you saying? Sorry. About what? The Thing. Like, why would you remake the Thing? Oh, but I think what they did was actually the best version of it

because it wasn't a remake. It was like, this is where the dog comes from. Right, yeah. But giving it the same title confused everyone. I know. It should have been called

The Dog. Yeah, it should have been called The Dog. It should have been called The Dog. The German Shepherd. But yes, Fede Alvarez's Evil Dead,

which is, as we said on the podcast, pretty crunchy fun. Pretty crunchy fun. Yeah. Says David Sims of the Atlantic. I think Evil Dead Rise looks fun, too. Me?

No? No, I think it looks great, but it looks like a retread of the Evil Dead, and that makes me concerned. But they're in a high-rise. Are they? Different place, yeah. Permanent building. You know what I like about the trailer, too? Can you imagine living next to where that's happening? It sounds like our studio today.

It sounds like someone's next door is doing an evil death. No, I like in the trailer that the deadites are like fucking with her. Right. They have the annoying like taunting quality of the Sam Raimi deadites. Like I like that the deadites are assholes in the Raimi movies. Who is it? I think it's a Fede Alvarez type upstart Lee Cronin Uh huh

Who appears to be a guy Okay Made a movie called The Hole in the Ground It's like an Irish horror movie So much Irish horror I mean it's a scary place You've also got the Jurassic Park remake I mean re-release

3D Okay You've got Olympus Has Fallen You've got Oz the Jurassic Park remake. I mean, re-release. 3D. Okay. You've got Olympus Has Fallen. You've got Oz the Great and Powerful. Sam Raimi. One of the gods. You've got Tyler Perry's Temptation.

Don't remember that one. That's his wildest movie I would argue. Is that the one with Kim Kardashian? That, yes. Kim Kardashian, Taraji. Yes, Confessions of a Marriage Counselor. Yes. Brandy. Yes, Brandy's in it. That movie has one of the wilder twist endings. It's not Taraji. Yes. Confessions of a Marriage Counselor. Yes. Brandy. Yes.

Brandy's in it. That movie has one of the wilder twist endings. Not Taraji. That's a different one. Oh, it's Journey Smollett. Journey Smollett. Bell. Yes.

Acrimony is the craziest movie I haven't finished watching. Right. I confuse acrimony and temptation, but temptation's the one that is bananas. Really? Temptation is almost trance-level insanity. Oh, wow. In its twists and turns Number 10 at the box office

The place beyond the pines What week? In its third week So it was up to what? 275 million domestic? Got dumped in March If you remember that was a TIFF movie But then it got dumped in March

With two humongous stars I like that movie a lot A perfect example of When that came out I was like Yeah. With two humongous stars. Really interesting movie. I like that movie a lot. Yeah. I mean, a perfect example of Yes. Yes. When that came out,

I was like, oh, a little disappointing. And now I'm like, what I would give for A Place Beyond the Pines. Right. It's a dark time. Yeah.

Like, it's a really, it's a dark time. No, cinema's on the up, on the way up. What is cinema? Cinema is going back up. Like Maverick

and his famous Top Gun jet. Oh. You don. Like Maverick and his famous Top Gun jet. Don't like Maverick? I loved watching all those action scenes in Maverick. Yeah. And also

the sex scene with Jennifer Connelly. We're not even talking about that because that was the most sickening thing I've ever seen. Actually, that wasn't even sickening. It was just her lowering

onto a pillow. Like Dracula. I think it's smart that they're like, no one wants to watch Tom Cruise do this just cut to the I don't think he wants

to watch it either no cut to him talking to her exactly and it's still in his t-shirt I'm like you look good

just take off their shirt anyway I was like I enjoyed it so much it was the first movie in a while that actually like

got my heart racing you know which I think is why everyone's like best picture but I also was like there's all this diversity in the movie

but the entire movie is everyone being like look at that white man go why everyone's like best picture but I also was like there's all this diversity in the movie but the entire movie is everyone being like look at that white man go yep it's like a fucking shrine to white like masculinity it's like yes

everyone's like thank god they're back he's back and I'm like finally this is crazy but I was like

yes Top Gun Maverick is one of those movies where you just cannot sit down and think about too much but the first Top Gun's the exact same way

well that's true. Yeah, which is why no one's watched it since the 80s. But yeah, I'm like, this is dark-sided. But I loved it. It's effective. It's like undeniably effective. It's like the new indie movie, which I can't wait to see. But my friend was like, he was like, I can't deal with this.

And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, we let this white man whip people for decades. And I was like, he's never whipped any black people. He was like, he whipped whipped any black people he was like he whipped Arabs in the first movie and I was like you have some

you make some good points I haven't thought about that I'll be first in line to watch the film and I was like so will I and it's just like it's just you know

it's really the dial of destiny I think it looks fun it does look fun oh I mean James Mangold's gonna fucking kill it yeah

yeah and David you and I were both agreeing like it not being directed by Spielberg helps take a lot of pressure off of it 100% yeah in a way where it's like Yeah. Yeah. And David, you and I were both agreeing like it not being directed by Spielberg helps take a lot of pressure off of it. A hundred percent.

Pressure's off. In a way where it's like I can just, I just want this to be enjoyable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a great summer

for movies, including your movie, Nia. I was like, when is this coming out? Yeah. Tomorrow's. Yeah. I'm literally shooting

while that comes out so I'm not even going to be like present. You're making The Water Dancer. No, I'm making an adaptation of H out. So I'm not even gonna be like you're making the water dancer No, I'm making an adaptation of how to gobbler this. Oh, right Cool but it's like kind of hooky or and crazier and sexier speaking of sex sex and movies I don't know if I can okay don't get in trouble Jesus you just bleep it all out.

But it's playing Hedda. Cool, cool. And playing Loveborg. Excuse me. I know, I know. And then Thea's being played by I don't know if her deal is done,

but whatever. And then We definitely are bleeping this. Yeah, we're bleeping all of this out. Oh, no, of course. No, but just bleep the names. Yeah, yeah. Keep all the surrounding talk. And then Well, again then well again deal needs deal pending is playing the judge and then

we're trying to get who wants to do it but he's who'd be married and has like like a sex scene with her so and okay so sorry i just you want the names to be bleeped out but i feel like all of this other information is going to potentially be, I don't know, tricky. No, actually, it's just deals. No, there's no identifying information. Yeah. And Ben, once again, with what I'm about to say, bleep out the name in question. I was going through my phone recently and trying to delete like duplicate contacts or people where I'm just like, why did I have this number saved?

This was like a taxi driver. I'm never going to call this again. Whatever. Right. I found I had email. I have this number saved? This was like a taxi driver. I'm never going to call this again. Whatever. Right? I found I had email. I have never met her. I don't understand why I would.

I was like going back. Because everyone's talking about her. Well, sure. So she's just in your address book. But I was like going back through and I was like, was I on some group email with her? Did I do like a reading with her 15 years ago

that I didn't realize? Yeah. I want to just show this email to you and see if it is correct or if I have saved someone else under her name. I'm confused by it.

I don't have her email address. Interesting. Okay. Then maybe... It's firstname.lastname at gmail.com. Well, sure. No, it was a weird one.

At me. Yes. That was the weird part. Well, that's exciting. So you're shooting that when Marvel's comes out this summer. That's cool. Yeah. Which I that when Marvel's comes out this summer. That's cool.

Yeah, which I cannot wait for. And then, yeah. And Marvel's is going to be a platform release, you think? Do you know when it goes live? No, we're hoping for theatrical. Fingers crossed. You never know. I've been really fighting with Disney over this.

Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's insane. It's absolutely nuts. And I hopefully will come out in China. Yeah. China's finally letting Disney movies back in. Yeah. They just announced they're letting Megan in,

and that girl is a killer. You gotta watch out for her. I can't believe they're letting her into China with those knives. Those dance moves. Those dance moves. Yeah, all that twerking. All right.

Nia, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks, Nia. I'm back anytime, Nia. Yeah, great. Okay, so I thought you Nia, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thanks, Nia. I'm back anytime, Nia. I thought you were going to do another quote for some reason. I'm just saying, thank you for being here. Open invitation. Come back anytime. Feel free to bring gifts next time. No pressure.

She said you wanted to bring something for the mantle place. I'm not. You can do whatever you want. We'll gladly accept a gift. Go next to King Ralph. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to read, review, and subscribe.

Thank you to Marie Barty for our social media, helping to produce the show. AJ McKee and Alex Barron for our editing. Lane Montgomery, the great American novel for our theme song.

JJ Birch for our research and letting us know about the general. Joe Bowen, Pat Reynolds for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon Blank Check special features

where at this point we're still doing Men in Black. Did I tell you guys I went to college with Marie Barty? You went to college with who? Marie Barty. Yeah, yes. I'm sorry. Brilliant social media woman. She's the best. No, we're about to move on from Men in Black, Griffin, to... I'm sorry, we, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant social media woman. She's the best. No, we're about to move on from Men in Black, Griffin, to... Should we say what it is?

Well, you know, our next episode is the Olympics, so... Okay, so then, Olympics, and also a reminder that every 10 days, we unlock an episode from three years ago for free public consumption. Which is... Patreon.com slash blank check. Trolls, the experience with Richard Lawson a classic the bridge episode into the pandemic the last thing we did in person the first one

of the first things we had to record over zoom a great time you'll probably want to relive tune in next week for Steve Jobs the episode David I wanted you to say because it's the you've been fucking waiting eight years Steve Jobs just The episode David's... I wanted you to say it because you've been fucking waiting eight years. Steve Jobs!

David's favorite movie of all time. Just to tease this episode, I was only able to get two treadmills, but we will be walking and talking, but we won't.

No stationary recording. And as always, hats off to the general.