Blank Check with Griffin & David - Twin Peaks (Season 1) with Eva Anderson

Episode Date: September 29, 2024

For a brief shining moment, Middle America went crazy for the surreal soap opera stylings of David Lynch and Mark Frost. We’re talking ABC, primetime, airing against “Cheers”-level mainstream. And then it all came crashing down. Listen as we take our first step into the intoxicating world of Twin Peaks - one of the most influential television series of all time and the project that would come to define Lynch for the rest of his career. Eva Anderson - who literally grew up in the town Twin Peaks was filmed in and can tell you for a fact that the diner cherry pie sucks - joins us to talk about how such a pop cultural oddity came to be, and why it has such staying power. Note - this episode covers Season 1 of Twin Peaks, but alludes to certain plotlines in Season 2 without directly spoiling them.  Blank Check Theme (Cherry Pie Remix) composed by Alex Mitchell, vocals by "The ghost of Julee Cruise" aka Marie Bardi. This episode is sponsored by: FACTOR (Factormeals.com/check50) Join our Patreon at http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck  Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! 

Blank check with Griffin and David Blank check with Griffin and David Don't know what to say or to expect All you need to know is that the name of this show? Is Blank Check? Welcome to Blank Check. My name is Griffin Newman. I live in Blank Check. I am known as Downtown Griffey Nooms. There is a story behind that. There are many stories in Blank Check.

Some of them are sad, some funny. Some of them are stories of in Blank Check. Some of them are sad, some funny. Some of them are stories of madness, of violence. Some are ordinary. Yet they all have about them a sense of mystery. The mystery of life. Sometimes the mystery of death. The mystery of this studio.

The studio surrounding Blank Check. To introduce this story, let me just say it encompasses the all it is beyond the fire though If you would know that meaning it is a story of many but begins with two two friends And I was one of them The one leading to the many is the podcast the podcast is the one now That's the log ladies introduction. Yes to the the pilot for Bravo TV, I assume. Was it Bravo?

Oh, those were all done after. Look, it's one of the things about me that people would often be astounded by, that I never watch the show. You don't have the lore. You're new to the lore. Well, there's a lot of it I got by osmosis, but some of it I've been confused by. And it's very interesting to watch this show now after multiple waves of like... Memes. Well, it's initial obsessive grip on the culture.

Well, you missed that. Then it's linger... I was alive. I wouldn't have been watching it. You were like one year old. I would not have been watching it, but I was alive. My ears were perked. A little toddler grip and just sort of Usmosis, like something on was alive My ears were perked. Toddler Griffin just sort of has most it's like something on ABC

Turning people's head. Dropping a Hollywood Reporter in the crib. I was leafing through. I had an Amy Archer mobile. An Amy Archer mobile. Wow. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Love that.

Thank you. And then there's yes, it's like lingering sort of legacy it getting replayed on Bravo and finally going to streaming which I feel like gave it a huge Modern wind and then the return and all this sort of stuff. I was watching this and I'm like, it's astounding How big certain characters looming culture relative to how small they are on the show like the log lady? Yes And then I'm like watching it on that. I got this fucking cinder block of a fucking blu-ray set, right, that has like everything on it. And I start seeing there's the option, oh, watch with, previously on, with preview, with Log Lady intros.

And I was like, okay, that's what I'm missing. When it aired on broadcast, people were seeing the Log Lady at the beginning of every episode. Wrong. This was done later, like 10 years later? He filmed them all in 1993 when the show was syndicated to Bravo. I guess back in the day, it's like, you only have 28 episodes, you're not gonna syndicate to like real TV,

but there's something called Bravo now. So wait a second. The quote I just did is something that actually wasn't part of the proper thing? It's on the DVD. I feel like the Log Lady introductions have become quite important. Well, let me say something else then. Yeah.

Yeah, there you go. Oh, that's a damn fine podcast. Okay, great. Wow. Damn fine. Ben? Podcast. I sent a text and said, does anyone want coffee?

And Ben's response was one word. Wait. I gotcha covered. I brought coffee today. Brewing a pot. It just felt right. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. David's got a half empty McDonald's cup full of water.

That's right. Of course. That's right. But the other three of us. Do you think there's a McDonald's in Twin Peaks? Absolutely. Have you been there? I mean, I know it doesn't exist. Our guest is shaking her head no. Our guest says no. It does exist and I lived there. Have you guys seen McDonald's in Twin Peaks? Oh, absolutely. Have you been there?

I mean, I know it doesn't exist. Our guest is shaking her head no. It does exist and I lived there. Yeah, David, what are you talking about? I mean, it has a different name in reality. I think you're being rude. I think you're being rude to our guest's homeland, her motherland. But there's no McDonald's?

No, there's a burger place called Small Fries. Oh, really? Good name! Yeah. You asked me to introduce the show, and I think I already did about as simply as I could have in the opening, but this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmographies and sometimes TV shows.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby. Yeah, this is actually part of our Leslie Linca Glatter series. It is. One of the great TV directors. We're doing kind of a sneaky, it's like a Christopher McQuarrie, we're going to piecemeal

a Glatter series. Now and then? She did direct Now and Then, the iconic VHS classic of any millennial youth. And did she do another feature? It's called The Proposition and it stars Madeline Stowe and Kenneth Branagh and Robert Loja. Huh? Came out in 1998. I don't really know anything else about it. Poorly received. I see. Okay. Talking about cult TV shows with sacred object DVD collections and such, the one I was obsessed

with unsurprisingly was Freaks and Geeks. Sure. And there was the, I don't know. She directed a few of those. I was gonna say, I don't know if you guys remember, there was the high-end, sort of like limited run shot factory, the yearbook. Yeah, with the multiple commentaries on every,

that's like the original to me, the original like TV box set that was so special. Oh, incredible. My most sacred object, but it came in the yearbook replica that had like 200 pages of writing from everyone who ever worked on the show about everything. And like recaps on every episode. And I just remember...

Yeah, she only did one, but she did Kim Kelly is My Friend, which might be the best episode. Right. Apatow said that he hired her onto it because Leslie Mann had worked with her and said she's the best director I've ever worked with. And he said, when I watched her work, I understood why. Wow. Hmm. Anyway, this is a mini-series on the films of David Lynch.

It is called Twin Pods Firecast with me. Sure. And today we're talking about Twin Peaks, season one. The first season of Twin Peaks. What do we hate doing on this show? Television. Hate doing seasons of television. And if we must do them, often, it is against our will on Patreon. Puncted to Patreon.

We've only done television once before on the main feed. That's not true. We did it twice, and it broke us, and we basically vowed to never do it again. Yeah, we did Roadies and Sense8. We did them back to back. We did two seasons, miniseries, in our first year of being blank check that ended with, and these filmmakers have now recently done a season of television.

Right, right, right. I didn't watch Sensate. That was one where I was like, boys, that's on you. It was a different era for the show. If you were gonna pick Rodis or Sensate, I would say, I would now probably say Sensei, but Rodies probably spoke to Ben more. Yeah, I also didn't finish watching it. Rodies is just, Rodies is forgot.

Like people who are in Rodies would deny being in Rodies. I think Rodies is not watchable anymore. Like Sensei, it's like, oh, it actually ran for two seasons and then fans pushed for a finale episode. That's nice, they did it. It's kind of interesting, it speaks to their, you know... And it was so early in Netflix blank check. It's fun.

You'd find both of those shows interesting. Yeah. It's tough. You never saw Roadies? No. Do you remember what Roadies is? It's a Cameron Crowe show, right? Cameron Crowe and Winnie Holzman.

Okay. So it's like Cameron Crowe and my so-called life making a show about present-day roadies as part of a... They didn't make it in the 90s when they were good at doing things. They made it in the 2010s for Showtime. Who is in it? Who's in it? Who isn't in it? Imogen Poots, Rafe Spall, Machine Gun Kelly, Finesse Mitchell. Yeah. What's his name? Ron White? Tater Salad. Ron White. I like Ron White.

Keisha Castle Hughes. Yeah, she was one of the roadies. They were all roadies, I guess. Was MC Ganey on it or am I imagining MC Ganey was on it? Am I on... Are you just thinking about Ron White and you're kind of like, MC Ganey might be near him. But he might have also been on it.

Roadies. Is it on HBO? What was it on? It was on Showtime. Nowhere. It's on Showtime and it doesn't exist. It's in the Red Room. Carla, Gugino and Luke Wilson?

Yes. Yes, right. I'm also... What was the Scorsese show about Rock and Roll? The one I was on. The one that Griffin was in every episode. Okay, so those two get... I'm sorry, Griffin. Those do get combined in my head sometimes. Eva, this is the first time anyone has shown disrespect to vinyl. I can't believe this rudeness. Which also gets a big stuff in my head with I'm dying up here.

Sure. That's... That one was tough. I watched every episode of that one. This is why it's weird that you missed it. I love TV shows about stand-up comedy. They always nail it. Well, they always throw away their routine and get real.

Yes. Every episode. And it works. And people love it. And it changes the world. It does. Even in Baby Reindeer, it works. It works in every time you do it.

It always works. I'm never watching that shit. Throw it out. I'm glad that we're talking about some of the most forgotten television of the last 10 years on an episode about one of the most impactful TV shows of all time. Last time we talked about Studio 60 for like an hour.

Okay, so we're not gonna do that this time. We have to talk about Twin Peaks, but I just wanted to check. This is really... We really never did TV on main feed again. This is the first time since... It sounds right. ...sense8 or, sorry, since Roadies. I'm pretty sure. Wow.

We did Little Drummer Girl. We did Paranoia Agent recently. Right. What was Jane Campion's? Top of the Lake, both of those were on Patreon. One great season, one demented season. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes. And I feel like Top of the Lake might have been the first time since the Roadies Sense

8 thing that we broke the rule and did a full season because it felt too important. Right. Right. She's really a part of this show. Blah, blah, blah. We usually try to talk our way out of it. And this is a case where it was undeniable. It's not only do you have to do it, but you have to figure out a complicated way to cover

all of it. Our guest today, a former resident of Twin Peaks, a very real town where she lived. Yep. Eva Anderson, the best guest in podcasting. Oh, thank you. I'm so happy to be here, guys. And thank you so much for asking me to cover Toot Feaks. We're thinking of who felt like the right guest. Who, if anyone, wanted to sign up for this.

It was like, is there any guest you could fit in? Is it too big an assignment? And then I was like, crazy to just throw Eva's ass, feels like an obvious ask. And then you said, this has a very specific personal meaning to me, season one in particular. Do you want to just come out and say this? Well just after season one between season one and two my family moved to the town where they filmed Twin Peaks and I lived there for 10 years. Because of the show right? Yes. Largely inspired by? Your family was like we just love the vibe and so let's go there? Yeah. Okay. What's the town called? I'm sorry.

There's three towns that make up the show. They're in a row in the Snoqualmie Valley. The first town where I lived is called Fall City, Washington. It has the Roadhouse. The next town is Snoqualmie, Washington. It has the Lodge and the Falls. And the third town is North Bend, which has the cafe. But they're all very close together.

They're just very close together. They're just in a row. That's like one, two, three. Route 202. Yep. So you spent like your adolescence here. Middle and high school. Yeah.

And then when I graduated high school right around that time, my parents got divorced. Everyone moved. So there was no more footprint as soon as I graduated high school. Everyone left. Right. Like you couldn't everyone moved. So like there was no more footprint as soon as I graduated high school. Everyone left. You couldn't go back. Post high school there was kind of a Twin Peaks Season Two

vibe where things went off the rails quickly. Very just weird detail. I don't know if you guys know this, that when my parents split up and moved, my dad moved into the house from inception. No, what? Which house? Which house from inception?

The main one where the kids are. Sure, the one he's trying to get back to. I think it's like floor three in his mind elevator or whatever, I can't remember. It's in Pasadena. My brother and I lived there for several years. It's in Leonardo's head. It's not in Pasadena.

This is obviously years before inception. Years before inception. It's a very nice looking house. Beautiful house. It's made by Green and Green who made the gamble house and like Doc Brown's house from a... Is what you're saying right now real? It is actually true.

Fuck. Spin the top. The top's spinning. Oh wow, it's all the way over there. So just rolled right from this place to that place in a very strange way. Also just side note, like my brother was like, do you not get super high in C-Inception? He warned me. Because of the house? Because he spotted the house first and then he was like, when you go, just be aware the house is in it. When you lived in Fall City? Yes.

Like, what year are we talking? You moved there? We moved in 1990, The summer of 1990. So, like, it had just aired. Yes. The first season had just aired. The season ends in May 1990. And season two starts in September 1990. But there probably isn't even much...

Was there tourism yet? A little bit. Just a little bit. There was, like, Japanese tourism, weirdly. And there was, like, a little... Best tourists on Earth. They're finding it right away. Yes there was like a little... Best tourists on earth. They're finding it right away. Yes.

There was a little gift shop where they sold like Twin Peaks stuff. They sold like the diary of Laura Palmer, which was written by Jennifer Lynch. And people would go to the cafe because that was the thing. Because it just looked like that. Yeah. It was that it hadn't changed. They hadn't changed it for the show very much and years later when they filmed the return it had gone through like a bunch of

Evolutions and then they had they restored it to the the wild original So it's now I believe if you go it should just look it was a Tweety bird themed cafe in the middle It's still called tweets, but then they made it just look like the original for the return Conor, I'll a friend of the show will be on an upcoming episode. He's a Twin Peaks obsessive. We were doing George Lucas talk shows in Seattle earlier this year, and he was like, I want to go to all the Twin Peaks locations. It's not that far. Right.

Yeah, it's like 45 minutes to an hour. Make an effort to go to the Laura Palmer House and all these things. Didn't join him on any of them This was in March and I was like I'm gonna be an asshole if Lynch wins this competition that didn't get to go going on Where he's the tipped front runner and I didn't go to any of these locations But the thing he told me was that they got a pie at the diner sure and it was terrible sure And then they bought a pie to go and brought it to one of the show and tried to get audience members to eat it. And every local in the audience was like, everyone knows the pie is bad.

Do you have any memory or experience with the pie? Um, yeah. And do you remember it being bad? Yeah. Yeah, it's really bad. It's kind of wild. I understand they don't want to solely exist as a tourist attraction. That they never fixed it.

I would just put a little extra effort into that. Here's the thing. If I were them. Twice, a couple times as adults, my brother and I have had individual work in Seattle. Your great brother Dash. My great brother Dash, my great little brother, my great big little brother. One of the great big little brothers. He's very tall.

He's tall. He's really tall, but he's my little brother. He's very tall. He's tall. He's really tall, but he's my little brother. But we will be in Seattle, get an Uber, take it to the cafe, order the pie, eat the pie, take a picture of the pie, send it to each other, go, still suck shit. And then go all the way back to Seattle. It's like $200 worth of Ubers. But it's nice to see Tweeds, Tweedies. Oh yeah.

This is what I like about you, Eva. You're such an experiential person. You have to do the thing. But like, right, you put so much effort into an experience you know will suck. Yes. But you're into that. You're like, this is gonna be great.

You curate that. And I love that in March, they still hadn't fixed it. It was bad when I was a kid. Yeah. I think that, right, there's just a problem there. It's just, it's never gonna be good. Yeah. But how is that an unfixable problem?

It's also so funny that Connor. It's kinda hard to make good pie on a bigger scale that's gonna sit out. It's not that hard. I'm not really defending them. It's a cafe! It's a coffee shop. They don't make that many pies a day.

That's the thing. I'm doing my best to defend. It doesn't even do. It's in like four and 20 black words makes more cherry pies a day than tweets. Well, those guys don't even that many pies a day. I'm doing my best. It doesn't even take... Is it like 4 and 20 Blackbirds makes more cherry pies a day than tweets? I know what they're doing. I don't think it doesn't even need to be the best pie on earth.

It doesn't need to live up to the show. It needs to be at least perfunctory, which everyone has told me it is well below. Yes, and it's just so funny because I've only ever had this opinion with Dash and the fact that Connor came to it immediately. And then the audience. Without being fed it. Connor was like, we buy this pie, everyone and the fact that Connor came to it immediately. And then the audience. Without being fed it.

Connor was like, we buy this pie, everyone in the audience will try one. And the audience was like, we all live here. We know it sucks shit. It's kind of like, you know, the Tom's restaurant up in Washington, the Morningside Heights, the Red Seinfeld restaurant. Everyone knows that place sucks. No offense to it. Yeah.

And if we have any listeners from Tom's. Yeah, that's another place where people go because they're like look and then they go in And they're like wait. This is like I guess this is a bad diner. Like how is it bad? Is there any impetus for them to make it better? No! The money is coming in! They're gonna sell so many fucking slices of pie a day. In fact, they may say it ain't broke. Why try to? Like we could screw something up here. But also slices of pie a day. In fact, they may say it ain't broke. Why try to? We could screw something up here. But also, it says something else about the general area

is that things, I always wonder if Lynch was just sensing a way in which things are just a little off there. Yeah, sure. Things are just weird there. And having grown up there, lived there for so long, I was just like, there is a vibe there. Maybe that felt accurate. It felt, and the pie being good would not

make sense in that place. Maybe I would go, if I went to Twin Peaks, not Fall City, Twin Peaks, I might be like, hmm, this town is kind of weird and depressing. And scary stuff seems to happen here all the time I do like the aesthetic. Yeah, I like the vibe sure I think I'm gonna clear on out Yeah, I'm going you'd move and Dale Cooper's like takes one, you know bite of that pine He's like hmm. I love it. Well, isn't this one of the key things of the show that you're like is

Dale Cooper the normal one or the weirdest one? He's the weirdest one. He's a freak. He loves it. Or he's stupid. Right. Well, he's kind of stupid too. But in that way where it's like his reaction to the pie and the coffee, does that mean that the pie and the coffee are excellent or is this a sign of his insanity? His like incredible optimism. Also, watching this time, the coffee he likes isn't even from the diner. He likes any cup of coffee anyone pours for him anyway.

That's true. If he has served black coffee, he's thrilled. There's the... Has he never had it? The fishy coffee is the only coffee he doesn't like. And that does disturb him profoundly. It sticks with him. That the coffee has been spoiled. Is there something in the water?

There's a fish in the park. In that part of the country. Is that maybe, it's like our bagels here. Is there something about the quality of the water that is making the coffee our bagels here? Is there something about the quality of the water that is making the coffee enhanced in some way? Well, that is one thing too that is true. The Pacific Northwest is all about coffee in a big way.

Sure. Of course it is. The land of Starbucks. Drive through espresso. Just like leaving the live bait shops also sell espresso. Everywhere sells espresso. And this show is kind of Broadcasting that at a time before coffee has gone really nationwide coffee culture has taken over in that kind of way outside of offices and

Home breakfast tables and whatever breakfast tables. What the fuck am I talking? Listen we're here to discuss Twin Peaks the 1990 Television mystery serial drama series created by Mark Frost and David Lynch that aired on ABC. Quite impactful. Which was a phenomenon briefly and then a phenomenon in a larger way after its departure. It is so wild to just like dig into the actual timeline and be like it was only eight episodes the first season.

Yeah. It premieres across like April and May of 1990, and it is canceled within one year. They do a 22 episode season two that starts in September. By one year later, the thing is done, done, done. And then Twin Peaks Fire Walk with me coming a year after that is the last Hail Mary Pass that people turn on. And you're like, this entire phenomenon has been contained within 24 months.

It's so crazy. And the arc of it, the like rise and fall, and in the public perception at the time, the even further fall down into like the depths of hell. But always had it's sort of Star Trek-esque diehards. Lingered. Who then like sort of gathered around all the ephemera. Yes. The aesthetics. Mm-hmm. It getting turned into like, yeah. who then sort of gathered around all the ephemera, the aesthetics, the tchotchkes, you know,

which is a very funny thing to do around a show that is profoundly disturbing, but also is incredibly charming. And funny. But also like video games, like Alan Wake, or like a lot of horror stuff is just... It's still got a... Pridding.

Yes, 100%. Or in a loving way. There's so many things. There's something odd about small towns if you think about it. I disagree. You're a little lynchian. Twin Peaks, so Ben, you had never seen Twin Peaks.

No, I haven't seen Twin Peaks. Ben had seen Twin Peaks. I'm the one who hadn't seen Twin Peaks. I'm trying to remember, that's why I'm doing this. You saw Twin, all of season one like what what what extent I? Watched up to a certain point in season two right a lot of Me too right yeah Griffin you had never seen him peaks. He's going under the table to get his inception Top because he's so worried. I was very worried. I'd never I'd seen the pilot only right sure right yes

Why did you resist? I don't know I actually don don't know. You know what my memory is? I'm trying to get off. I'm trying to line up timelines here. When did the return air? 2017. So that I want to say was... Mason? Were you trying to say like it's of the return coming out going like now is the time for me to actually get into it. My best friends and roommates at the time, Sophie and Hawken, had watched it maybe a year or two earlier when it was on Netflix and they were like, you would love this. And then I think I was like, okay, it's time for me to finally do it knowing this new season

is coming. I think my brain could not handle it in the midst of Tick production. Got it. When I was already losing my mind, and then I just never kind of went back around to it, which was my failing. I watched it like so many people in my generation.

I was too young for Twin Peaks, obviously, on air. But I'd heard about it. So I wasn't the only one. Yeah. But I'd heard about it, and my father't the only one. But I'd heard about it and my father especially would talk about it with some reverence, not just for the show, but just kinda like, that was crazy when it was like a thing

for a couple months there. And then like so many kids, I bought the DVDs when I was 18 years old and watched them in college and loved them and also washed out somewhere in season two the first time around. Everybody does, I think. It's a bit of a rite of passage. Not to say, I think Twimpy season two is very interesting

and we're gonna have lots to say about it. I've watched it all. Do not fear. That's later. Sure. Eva, what's your experience at Twin Peaks apart from the fact that you lived there? Well, because, okay, we had the laserdisc,

which had the European cut of the pilot, which was as long as a movie, and has the red room. It ends with the red room. Yes, we will briefly touch on how strange that thing is, yes. But that was the only Twin Peaks I watched, probably until I was almost 30. Was just watching that thing. That's wild. So your parents are watching it and they decide to move there and you are just kind of like, okay

You don't really understand why yeah Yeah, and I also think I was I was like I was eight like right. I mean, I was too little for twin peaks Yeah, yes Sure But I also like I think it was all just too much like in my like when normally people watching in college I was like it's like peewee being like I don't need to watch it, Doddy. I lived it. Like I was just like, I don't need to engage with this right now.

And so by the time I finally did, I loved it. It was great. And I just finally sat down. I was like, why? It's crazy that I haven't watched this. Yeah. And I, and I, I've watched it many times since, but yeah, it took me a long time to be ready to just like crack my knuckles and like be like,

I'm going to engage with this thing. And yeah, I mean, season one is just like, it's so perfect. It's great. It's just so wild. You're like saying stuff like Alan Wake and there's so many examples of things that feel so influenced by Twin Peaks.

And especially if you think about like the, the 10- to 15-year period in between the show ending and the sort of maybe second, third wave that leads to the return coming around. When its legacy was a little bit, they blew it. It was amazing and it got fucked up. The amount of work that is, like like deeply, clearly influenced by it and trying to recapture some element of it, it feels like the kind of thing you watch season one and you're like, I can imagine the universe in which these eight episodes played, no one watched them. Everyone who watched it was profoundly changed by it. It had a sort of

like, you know, only a hundred people ever saw the fucking Velvet Underground live sort of energy and people stuck to it and it's this weird unfinished project. The weirder thing than it collapsing so quickly is that it was so big so briefly. That remains kind of astounding and it feels like a very early lesson of, oh, the audience is not as dumb as TV people think they are. In this era, like up until that point, you read about like the anticipation of the show coming out and being like, people are going to hate us. This is not passive viewing. It doesn't hold your hand.

It's too weird. This is going to flop. And then it like blows up. But also one might argue that what ruined it is the TV person believing the audience was stupid. The second they had a hit and then they had to try to game it out. I... Have you watched season two yet? I've started it. I'm a handful of episodes.

You're gonna get into that. You'll realize what, you know, I think you'll see. I'm still in the good chunk. But it's not just, I think the fandom gets a little too simple with like, well, Eiger made them reveal the killer and that ruined the show. I don't agree that that ruined the show.

I think it's just like, it was no one making that show was equipped for the absolute marathon of 22-episode season television at the time. Where it's like, okay, you better have all your storylines ready to go and, you know have all your storylines ready to go and, you know, a way to sort of sustain interest in an ensemble that is like 40 people deep, like, consistently.

And you can see the show kind of be like, what should we do with some of these guys? Let me try this, oh, forget it. You know, like, you see them kind of caught off guard, everyone caught off guard by this thing being a huge success. I'm like, ah, what the hell do we do? You know, like, not just like, let's solve the. I'm like, what the hell do we do? You know, like, not just like, let's solve the murder, but like, what should all these people do?

That's the thing. I feel like the Lynchian elements, these sort of surrealistic things, the more genre-y things, loom really large in culture, where I'm like, oh my god, the arm is in one episode the entire first season. Log Lady appears like twice in season one. Like, all this shit that has been like so outsized that I'm watching this for the first time and I'm like there are

20 characters in this I've never heard talked about. I've never seen memed. Wow. I want to know who your faves are. Who are like regulars and you're like this has such an expansive cast of like naughty soap opera relationship dynamic backstories across like quote, quote-unquote, normal people. And let's say normal people on a weird sliding scale. No, 100%. Yes. The weird stuff in Twin Peaks is... Right. ...is just a thin sliver of the running time.

And the first season has almost no scary stuff. Correct. But like that shit, it's hard to maintain... When it is scary. Yeah. That shit, in a way, the plate's spinning. Well, you can't. You can't. and so the show doesn't even try to really This is when the show was about to premiere and there was a USA Today article called high hopes for Twin Peaks Because I do you look at the press at the time and they were like this is a weird thing for a network to be trying Right. This feels like this weird experiment eight episodes short season premiering at the end of a television season

This is almost feeling like a burn-off or some weird flyer. And there's a guy, media analyst and advertising executive Paul Schulman, who said, quote, this is right before it premieres. I don't think it has a chance of succeeding. It is not commercial. It is radically different from what we as viewers are accustomed to seeing. There's no one in the show to root for. And you're like, the guy is succinct. He is kind of correct in that, based on the models of what shows had been successful up until that point, that is right. And then you put it in front of people, and everyone is like, well, I've never seen something like this before.

The mere fact that it was kind of brand new does feel like what grabbed people in the first place, right? Here are some of the hottest shows though, on TV. I know the number one, which this was scheduled directly against was Cheers, right? This is like peak of Cheers. I would say it's kind of the end of Cheers, but like, Cheers was very, like, had a weird sort of rise near the end of its run. We're gonna do a ratings game at the end of this episode, obviously. Get ready.

Okay. I hope, you know, but yeah, Cosby show, different world cheers, right? That sort of NBC Thursday night lineup is huge. Wander Years and Roseanne on Tuesdays for ABC. Those like the crown jewel of ABC's lineup. They also, of course, have one of the top 10 shows in America, America's Funniest Home Video. Of course.

It is crazy to think about that being like, everyone's like, time to sit down and watch that. Like, that's prime time We must be would see the new funniest home videos I mean, that's basically what MTV is 24 7 programming is now. That's what I'm saying now It's like yeah, that's just garbage you plug holes with back then it was like 8 p.m. Well cuz there used to be one place You're like cameras have been in homes in a widespread manner for like a decade.

Tops. Right. And there's this fucking oil underneath the ground that no one else is bringing up. The amount of videos that people have in their fucking cupboards. Of dads getting hit in the nuts. Correct. Chive TV. And no one gets to see them.

This toddler is coming towards this wall at an alarming rate. Like, surely not. Like surely this kid won't run into this fence. Anyway, Golden Girls' Empty Nest, also crushing right now. Those are the biggest shows. Is Hill Street Blues still on the air? Yeah, what are the, are there any dramas? So the biggest dramas, because you're right to say like what the hell.

Like which of the primetime soaps are on right now? The biggest dramas are Murder She Wrote, Matlock, the TV version of In the Heat of the Night, which is on NBC. A lot of old people detectives. That's Carol O'Connor, Post All in the Family, where they're like, I think I have another racist you could play. Post-Arts-Cheese plays, yeah. LA Law, which that's probably the number one... Yeah, that's the hot. ...sort of new era of television kind of thing. Like, oh, this show is more modern, right?

Like, versus in the Heat of the Night. Then, I mean, okay, then I'm going down the list here. But like Dallas is off the air, Dynasty's off the air, all of those have ended? No, Dallas is still on, as is like Falcon Crest, but they've dropped out of the top 30 shows. Melrose Place hasn't started yet? Dynasty is just finished.

Melrose Place has not started. 90210 has not started. So it's kind of a weird time, I guess. Because that is the main thing this show is, I mean, the dynamite pitch for this show is, what if David Lynch did the weird version of a prime time soap, right? 100%.

That's enough of a proven genre at this point. He'll take soap aesthetics and stuff and soap storytelling styles, but then like Lynchian horror, but then also it will be a cop show. It's a lot of things at once. In fact, let me open the dossier. Between the release of Blue Velvet in 1986 and the premiere of Twin Peaks,

David Lynch was involved with some other stuff that never happened. Something called Goddess, which is about Marilyn Monroe, which is also maybe going to be called Venus Descending. That was going to be about the Kennedy family. And that is where David Lynch meets Mark Frost, who had worked on Hill Street Blues. Frost wrote the screenplay. Lynch wants to direct it. And that is where they get together. The studio hated Mark Frost's script. David Lynch liked it.

So they click very quickly. But that thing never comes together. It's a shame, because I feel like all movies about Marilyn Monroe turn out really well. Definitely not cursed. None of them are boring or upsetting. David Lynch goes over to Dino De Laurentiis and says, Do you want to make Ronnie Rockett now, please? When Velva was a hit?

Dino De Laurentiis says, No! I don't want to! I don't know if you talk like that. Spinning a pizza pie on one finger as he gives a thumbs down with the other hand. Yes. There is also something called one saliva bubble, which is another of his screenplays that you can find. Yes, promise. That emerges now. And he works on that with Mark Frost.

That is a comedy about two guys who work, two cretinous guys who work at a research facility. One of them laughs and a bubble floats out of his mouth, goes down a hallway around a corner and lodges in some sensitive equipment and shorts it out. And then you cut to outer space and see a satellite deploy a ray gun weapon that fires and then a countdown starts. That was the pitch. Delivering exactly what it promises on the tin.

It's a movie about one saliva bubble. Steve Martin and Martin Short get attached as the two cretins. Ben? Sounds pretty cool. A bubble, a saliva bubble has never floated down a hole. Well, David Lynch disagrees with your negative thinking on storytelling here. And then Dino De Laurententis runs out of money, and so he cannot produce it.

That's such a shame. It sounds pretty cool. It sounds fun. Around now, he also makes the cowboy and the Frenchman, which we discussed briefly, I think, on our shorts episode, which is with Harry Dean Stanton. It has similar vibes to Twin Peaks. It does feel like it's maybe a little bit

of a transition point for him understanding how to make, I don't want to say a more mainstream version of his thing, but how to lean into the comedy a little more in a way that makes it perhaps a little more accessible. But it's got a similar look and tone to Twin Peaks, I'd say. Yeah, no, I think you're right. And the other thing he does around now is he produces, floating into the night, the Julie Cruz album, which obviously the music of that is very pivotal to Twin Peaks. And so that's all happening.

Okay. The reason I asked about Hill Street Blues and if it had ended, and I didn't even know that Mark Frost came from that. He did. But I feel like that show is often cited as this kind of breakthrough in audiences are smarter than we think they are in like, oh, it's got very complicated narratives. Lots of characters. Yes, and there are threads that are going on across seasons.

The old adages. More morally complex, too. Yeah, you don't have to root for a hero, blah, blah, blah. It's a grounded show, and it's in a genre that everyone knows very well. David's... It's just so weird that that guy said there's no one to root for in Twin Peaks, when Dale Cooper is, like, the person you root for.

I bet his argument is, he's too weird. Ughaks when Dale Cooper is like the person you root for. I bet his argument is he's too weird. But yes, he is the guy you root for. And then he said something Picasso. That's a very something Picasso quote. Something Picasso. I do love it when they god that Picasso. I'm sorry, did I say right here the name media analyst Cal Hockley?

Hockley, Griffin. And we all know Cal Hockley committed suicide in the Great Depression. Of course. Which they just tag on at the end of Titanic, just like when in Legally Blonde, the guy, they're like, and also her ex-boyfriend like got fired for cheating or whatever, like, you know, fuck him. Right.

She's like, eh, Cal Hockley killed himself anyway. Yeah. Tony Krantz is a hotshot agent at CAA, who basically is like, David, you need to do television. Kind of weird that he thought this. I was gonna say. I'm not sure why he thought this. An insane pitch.

I think most people would not think that. And if you think about his career at this point, which we've covered, right? It's like midnight movie sensation. Then he goes straight to, oh Tony Oscar success Oscar tour right? Reasonable box office performer then he jumps to big franchise blockbuster. It's a disaster Yeah, then like blue velvet is like okay. I'm getting back to my thing. I'm synthesizing it It's a movie that's certainly the center of a lot of conversation

Yeah, he gets one lone Oscar nomination for director He does but it's a movie that gets a lot of controversy It does well considering what it is, but it's not like a huge crossover success The guy's certainly a subject of conversation has defined himself as an artist But it does feel like an odd moment to be like obviously we should do this in a weekly format He just hears I hear you're working with Mark Frost, that guy's a TV writer. Do you want to do television? You know, does that sound interesting at all?

They initially have an idea for a TV show called The Lemurians about the continent of Lemuria, a place where evil prevails, which disappears into the ocean. And FBI agents with Geiger counters search out to kill the remaining Lemurians. What the fuck is that? Sounds good. Sounds that? Sounds good. Sounds good. Sounds good. They pitch that to NBC and NBC is like, no.

And then Brandon Tartakov at NBC is like, I mean, do you want to make that into a movie? And they're like, no. So then instead, Krantz says to Lynch, can you write something about the real America like you did with Blue Velvet? Supposedly they maybe also watch, they were somewhat inspired by Peyton Place, the classic film and soap television show. Right.

And they wisely were like, what if we did like a cop show cross with a soap opera? It's just funny that they were like, their first pitch is like, okay, aliens from the sea. And ABC's like, no! And they're like, oh, cop show? But like with soapy elements? And ABC's like, yes, thank you! Yeah.

It was gonna be called Northwest Passage. It was gonna be set in North Dakota. And they developed the town, they drew this map, they were like, it's gonna have a lumber mill. There's gonna be a lake, a body will wash up on the lake. Like, they thought about this sort of Dickensian setting first, and then they populated with the characters and the stories. And they pitch ABC on, like, the mystery of Laura Palmer,

that will be the foreground, but then it will recede, and we'll have the soapy character stuff. And ABC was just kind of like, all right. I mean, truly, I think they were like, okay, we'll order a pilot. Like something. Uh, they pitched in 88. There was a, there was an 88 WGA strike and it took, so it took them like almost a year for ABC to finally be like, go make it.

What? Yeah. And they would make it together. Griffin, you're looking something up? Yes. Okay. Well, I can tell you- I have the thing I was looking up.

Okay. And this is from Iron DB Trivia, so likely is false. Great. But it jumped out to me. Okay. The population in Twin Peaks was originally only supposed to be 5,120. Yes. However, there was a backlash against rural-themed shows at the time. This is a classic bit of Twin Peaks lore.

I have no idea if it's real or not. As networks were fearful that the burgeoning urban and suburban population of America would not be able to sympathize with shows set in small farming or industrial towns. So then it was bumped up to whatever it is, 51,000. They added a one. Right. And Mark Frost's internal lore has always been, that's a typo. Yes, it's a typo. It's a 5,000 person town.

But it is funny to think about, like all the other sort of night time... But Griff, you're citing something that is maybe not real. I framed it that way on purpose. Well, okay. Just thinking about what are the other 40,000 people up to in Twin Peaks? Like where do they live? Yes, who are they asking?

Like what apartment complex do they live in? There is a reason I'm bringing this up, whether or not it's real, which is all those other nighttime soaps we're talking about are very like lifestyles of the rich and famous, fabulous. Dallas dynasty, Peyton Placer, I mean whatever, yeah. Whether or not there was truly fear at ABC around this, I do think that was a key to this show working. This is in a different milieu. These are just real people.

I think the small town thing is obviously so pivotal to success. The people seek the vibes. It doesn't make any sense that the sign says 50,000 people live there That's why I'm bringing up which is why it's always driven people crazy. Yeah, and it's they clearly 50,000 people don't live there Yes, I've never understood like then there are people who like that. I've read the note of like ABC was afraid of The thing you just said sure that seems insane I get the smaller thing of ABC being like that's kind of tiny like yeah The more just literal like vibes of like,

well, anyone fucking care? Can you make it a little, just feel a little bigger? Yeah. But also, you're saying- But it's so annoying that the population is just wrong. Yes. It just drives me crazy. I can also see though, like, Mark Roster,

David Lynch isn't on set the day that they shoot the shot of the art department made the sign wrong. Yeah. I mean, sure. Yeah, it comes in, they're like, ah, can we shoot this? No, I guess we can't shoot it again. How many people live in Fall City, Washington?

Let's find out. Yeah. But it also feels... 2,000. You're saying it's insane. 2,000 people. Insane thinking to say, well, people won't want to watch a show about a small town. That's the exact kind of insane

that you hear from television executives all the time. And it does feel like, despite the fact that it then becomes immortalized because it's in the fucking opening credits, that is the kind of like, how do we take this note without really taking it? If we change the number on the sign, we don't have to change the feel of the town at all. Marie? Yes, Griffin?

I'd love to do another ad read if you don't mind, if you have the the time? Sure. Hold on one second. Sorry I know this is unprofessional let me just take this call. Unknown caller. Hmm who could it be? Hold on hello? Oh my god Marie? What? It's warmer sunnier days. Warmer sunnier days are calling? The notion, the abstract concept of warmer sunnier days they're calling, sunnier days are calling? The notion, the abstract concept of warmer, sunnier days. They're calling me. I thought it was a robocall, but it is in fact the friendly manifestation of warmer, sunnier days. And they are telling me to please fuel up for them with factors no prep, no mass meals. Wow. I've got some wellness goals in time for summer. Wait a second, they want to introduce me.

What? They want me to meet my wellness goals. Oh great, okay. Just in time. Can I come too? Absolutely, just in time for summer. Look at us here, the peak of summer. And this is all thanks to the menu of chef-crafted meals

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What are you waiting for Marie? They got they got 35 different meals, more than 60 add-ons to choose from every week. You'll always have new flavors to explore. Yeah, no I told her about the new flavors. And listen, you can crush your wellness goals this month with dietitian approved meals and ingredients that you can trust. I understand what you're doing and it's helpful in certain ways but it's also kind of a conflict because I have to do the ad read. We'd already started recording. So now I'm like funneling back and forth between the phone call and the doing the ad read with

Marie. Yeah, no, I'll tell her. You can make your day nutritious. From breakfast to dessert, stay fueled with easy, nutritious options. Why don't they just call me to speak to me directly? Or maybe text me. I don't know. So it's easier to just read it.

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Ironically, your phone call is kind of taking some time out of my day. No, I know the intention was good, but it's just like most phone calls these days, if you receive one, it's a little bit of a stressor because you just wonder like, couldn't this have been an email? You can enjoy effortless support for your lifestyle. Choose from six menu preferences

to help you manage calories, maximize protein intake, avoid meat, simply eat well-balanced, and then call to action. Oh, sorry, Griffin, I'm getting well balanced. And then, call the actor. Oh, sorry, Griffin, I'm getting a call. You're getting, okay. Hello? Oh, I'm sorry? Okay, they want me to tell you

that you can head to factormeals.com slash check 50. Okay. And use code CHECK50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month. Now Marie, that sounded like a call to action. Was that a call from action? No, it was a call from warmer, sunnier days. They're calling you as, are we on a conference call now?

Listen, let me just, hold on one second. Yeah, okay, that's code check50 at factor meals dot com slash check 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. It's a great offer. I wish they didn't feel the need to hold our hands through the whole process. I'm going back to the dossier. The research dossier. Sure. So, Cooper, as you might understand, as you might guess, that is David Lynch's avatar.

Wait, what? I know. I know this sounds crazy. Mark Frost, apparently, you know, more the snappy dialogue guy, Lynch says. From everything I've ever understood about this show, Frost is more the TV writer mind, obviously. He's a little more responsible for thinking about how the show moves week to week, how the mysteries progress. Lynch is more responsible for the look of the show, the aesthetics, obviously the red room and everything like that,

the tone, the music, sure. But Dale is Lynch. So like a lot of the Dale stuff is being driven by Lynch. But they do write the pilot together. There's a lot of like sort of twin peak speculation about like whose is what, right? You know what I mean? Like that's sort of hard for people to figure out.

Some things I think are obvious, like when I'm talking about some things it's like, no, actually that was Mark's idea, blah, blah, blah. Also, any successful... But they say they write together and it's kind of like a mind meld. Any successful partnership like this, at some point it becomes more symbiotic than you would imagine, even if the starting point is like Lynch does the weird shit, Frost does the structure. Right.

At some point they're going to get good at understanding both sides of it. Lynch is a treat boy. Lynch is a treat boy. Please elaborate on that. I love it. I mean, didn't he famously work at Bob's Big Boy and drink milkshakes all the time? Or lived there? Or ate all his meals there? He went there every day for five years?

He's a treat boy. Yes. He just wants to do the fun stuff. How does he stay trim? It's incredible. I don't know. I was watching a, forgive me for bringing his name to this conversation, Charlie Rose clip with David Lynch.

That's not so bad. Wait, wait, are you watching, you mean the clip where he says he eats tuna fish every day? Yes, where he talks about his meals. Yeah, so I mean, the man has a fixation thing, like no matter what the meal is. Here's the thing that sucks about Charlie Rose. He gets good answers out of people

despite not being good at his job. He's the world's worst interviewer. He's actually maybe the worst interviewer that has ever existed. But for 30 years, he basically was the only person hosting a podcast, right? Where he had a format that was loose and conversational enough and open-ended enough. There's actually time for people to talk. They can give complete answers. And he's got this minimalist set, and he booked good guests,

and you're just like, fuck, you constantly gotta go back and watch Charlie Rose interviews, and watch this dumb drunk go like, so Twin Peaks is a movie? And he's like, no, it's a TV series. And television is, what now? I'm on it right now? Is that the box I put my beer inside?

My groceries? He had that thing recently where he talked about eating Cheetos. Charlie Rose recently talked about eating Cheetos? Lynch said that when he was asked to play John Ford in Fable Men's, that the one thing in his contract was that his dressing room was filled with Cheetos. With bags of Cheetos. He's only allowed to eat them on set. Right. Or I think...

Oh, he was... He's a treat boy! He's like, I'm gonna get my treats! I think one of the producers said that about him, and then he was asked about it in an interview, and they were like, do you love Cheetos that much? And he's like, I have to put guardrails around it. Uh-huh. If I eat one, I'm gonna eat the whole bag.

This is how he stays trim! Just thinking about him sucking his fingers. Well, that's the thing with Lynch. You don't like to think about him getting on the scale and going like, oh, I should lose five pounds. That's just not how he operates in my mind. But the whole eating routine thing

and in that Charlie Rose interview, he's like, I eat two things every day. I have tuna fish with lemon and then chicken chopped into little pieces with a tiny bit of soy sauce. Yeah, it's, yeah, let me find the tuna fish. We've talked about this, I think, but... And his explanation is, like, because everyone was always like, what's this eccentricity? What's him only eating at Bob's Big Boys

for five years? And his explanation, that rose clip... Feta cheese, olive oil, vinegar, tomatoes, and tuna fish. It's sort of like a Niswaz salad-y kind of a Greek salad. He's a Mediterranean diet boy. Yes. And he cycles through what it is, but he'll go through a prolonged period where it's, I eat the same thing every day unless I'm traveling. And then he gets to, then I'm a tree boy.

Right. Then I have bags of Cheetos or whatever. Or a pie. The routine is important because limiting the decision-making process in as many aspects of my life as possible allows me to spend the rest of my day in imagination land basically he was like I wear the same thing I eat the same thing I do everything at the same time because that structure keeps my life on rails and then I feel like when those decisions are removed your brain starts going to weirder places I love that

which does feel like watching that clip kind of feels like a turnkey to the Cooper character. Very much, absolutely. In his setup and the whole unconventional detective thing. Yes. Right. Except Cooper eats anything you put in front of him. Correct. It's true, he's a bit of a Griffin Newman.

Yes. Garbage belly. Garbage belly. That idea of like, I'm gonna have a weird approach to finding the clues. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Kyle McLaughlin is the only choice, obviously, for Dale Cooper.

Lynch says, yes, he's a guy, he says he was born for the role. He says he's got a lot of perky childlike faces that really fit in. He says he loves gadgets, like that Kyle would always have like little gadgets, little like Swiss Army knives and lighters and stuff. And he just felt like all of that was very Dale Cooper. He's also, he's so fucking boyish in Dune and Blue Velvet. And in this, he's like gotten like 10% more grownup man in him. I was thinking about this.

I was like, oh, he finally, they finally like grew together into a character, like Lynch, and... Because there's something... I... Like, he's not very good in Dune, even though I love him so much. And then Blue Velvet, he's just not my favorite part of Blue Velvet. But then it's just like, it all comes together in Agent Cooper,

it all makes sense suddenly. Lynch also sort of says without being critical that he thinks that when he was directing Kyle, he really could get him to kick up the Cooper way up. And other directors were afraid to do that, and Kyle would maybe bring it down slightly. And Lynch likes, you know, really goofy Dale Cooper. But don't you think part of the magic of the show

is like the weird erratic, like, sometimes he's huge and sometimes he's more muted? Honestly, I do. That's a good point. Yes. I mean if he were a cartoon character the entire time. But like yeah the magic of the show, not that I'll do a little more dicey, but yeah is that Dale is like I had a dream and we simply have to go do this right now and Truman is just like, okay. Yeah Like it's not like what any TV executive would be like, where's the conflict? Why why does Truman go along with everything Cooper says Cooper's insane, right? And so annoying and he's a city slicker and he's a Fed and instead Sheriff Truman's just always like yeah Oh, yeah to dream. Well, I mean, there's a pretty weird town

So I guess we'll do that when people discuss like buddy cop as a show subgenre Almost all examples are they hate each other and they're fighting at least they first act hate each other second act They realize common ground third actor to be the weapon movies were obviously the underlying Right and this is actually a buddy cop thing where the one cop is like sure thing whatever you say buddy Put on the disguise go to a brothel, yeah, sure. In the entire series, there is one time that Truman is kind of like a Cooper. It basically never happens.

Yeah. Anyway, we'll talk about it. Joanna Rae, his legendary casting director, obviously loves to present Lynch with photographs. Lynch loves to look at photos. He finds a photo of Cheryl Lee, a Seattle-based actress. Yes. Obviously, Laura is not really intended as a big character,

but he's very drawn to her. It was truly gay she has the right look thing, and then it was, yeah. He meets with her, she says she was so nervous, and he was like, how do you feel about being dipped in gray paint and wrapped in plastic? And she was like, okay. And then they film the home video sequence

and he realizes like, I need more of this actor. So he didn't plan for Maddie originally? Oh, that's so cool. So Lynch brings her back, obviously, right. First is Maddie and occasionally Laura and then build a whole movie around her. Right, plans the movie around her. But that's all him discovering like.

That's so cool. Right, I mean, she's like the one local hire that becomes a significant role, because it was like, we don't need to cast a real actor for this, this is like two shots, she's not speaking, whatever. It's like... Weird to have a meeting about that. You're a corpse. She's like...

Yeah, no you're right. But she is pivot, I mean, sure. She is. He wanted an excuse to go get a treat. It does sound like David Lynch loves to have a treat. Weird, the meeting was at Bob's Big Bowl. But yeah, you think on paper, she stole a photo from her yearbook photo and a film shot of her playing dead.

Right, right. But it's like, it's like Julianna Margulies in ER or whatever. Once they start working, they're like, you're good. We need more of you. Julianna Margulies, of course, was supposed to die in the first episode of ER. So apart from that, though, you've got a lot of, I feel like, sort of vets and young ingenues, right? Like that's the casting, right?

You've got your like Ray Wise, the two West Side Story boys. Jack Nance. Jack Nance, Grace Zabriskie, but then, of course, you also have, like, Majanamik, Lara Flynn Boyle, you know, Peggy Lipton is over in the Vets side, you know, but like, Piper Lauren, Joan Chan. And then there's a subset of the Vets, which are Lynch's old friends, and he got fucking regular work on network television. It's the most amazing cast.

His, like, art school buddies. So good. Which I forget what episode I said this in. It's probably one that's gonna come out five months from now. But like there is I think a fascinating, under-discussed aspect of Lynch, which is he places very different type of actors in the same project, in the same scenes. Like when people talk about the uncanny Lynch tone,

I think part of it is that like he's not looking to synthesize people onto the same wavelength he will have people who are like ostensibly non-professional actors who just have the vibe or the look he wants he will have people who are like very serious young actors he will have people from old Hollywood school in a weird heightened style and like he likes the sort of conflict between these people not really feeling like they're talking to each other. They shouldn't be in the same frame. I love that.

I mean, it's wild to think about, especially now when all television makers are so spin thrift and want to reduce the number of regular cast members and people who are on every episode are technically guest stars or whatever. And the show starts and you're like, are there 30 regulars on this? Two minutes of credits. Yeah. Yeah. And then the actors names keep going. Yeah.

Right. Josie Packard written for Isabella Rossellini, legendarily she passes. Okay. Maybe because she's sort of at the end of her rope with Lynch, I don't really know. Um, and so they re-figure that for Joan Chen, who had just been in The Last Emperor and is kind of like a similar kind of like out of towner, right, energy, even though she's very different actor.

Russ Tamblyn, he met at a party with Dennis Hopper through. Cool. Richard Boehmer talks about, he was a friend of Joanna Reyes and Lynch would do things like, "'You should dance in the next take." And Boehmer talks about, like, he was a friend of Joanna Rae's, and Lynch would do things like, you should dance in the next take. And Boehmer would be like, I'm talking about, like, this deadly serious murder.

He's like, it'll be great! Like, you know, stuff like that. Catherine Coulson, right, we know, had worked with him on a short film, like, years ago. And was married to Jack Nance, someone he's known for decades at this point, yeah. Um, there's so many... It's hard to get through all of this casting. Like, it's, you know, but like...

Guys like Michael Ankeen was like a guy, right? Like, he's in like a bunch of... He's in Clara's heart and like postcards from the Edge and stuff. Like, he's like a guy. I think he had a TV show. The Rookies. Okay. Whatever. But then you also have like Mark Frost's dad. The Great Warren Frost.

You have... I mean, who else? Piper Laurie, she's a fucking Oscar winner. Yeah, she got on me for an Emmy, right? She got on me for lead actress on this, I think largely because she was kind of legendary. She's so good at this. She does rock. Just get ready for her season two, Griff. Okay. What I was going to say is, you've been prepping, you've been making jokes all season about like the insanity of Twin Peaks being so much based around high school drama and it all being these people in their

mid-20s who don't even, he doesn't even make the effort to like show them in school. There's like a couple, I mean there's the iconic shot of Lara Flynn Boyle sobbing in school, but you so rarely see them at school. Correct. And also Audrey leaning against her locker. Yes. Right at the start. We'll get into all that.

And Eva has a very strong take that she wants to share that she's been... It was a real go on. ... playing track four over text. But I read that Manchin Amchek... Manchin Amik. Manchin Amik originally read for Donna. Makes sense. And then they cast Lara Fombo, but you're like,

you're so good, we're gonna write a part for you. And then the part is like, quote-unquote, adult woman. It's true, right. She's in the same pot as the other young ingenues. But she's not in school. Right, there's this central tension around like, oh my God, Bobby's having an affair with an older woman. And you're like, everyone's the same age. And Audrey, you're like, is this creepy that she's like flirting with Cooper?

But then she's Amex playing an older woman. Not to spoil, but Audrey, of course, is intended as Dale's love interest. And then he objects or... Or a larval boy objects. Someone objects, that gets written out. And then they cast Heather Gramis' love interest in season two, who is younger than Sherrilyn Fenn.

Not younger than the character Audrey, but like, anyway. The TV in the 90s, man. I mean, the 90210, I mean, there was no teenagers. Like all the teenagers were played by these 25-year-olds. Yeah. Well, they're 50s teenagers too. Yes, that's a huge part of it. They're like Blackboard Jungle teenagers.

West Side Story teenagers. Which is part of, right, the charm of Twin Peaks is that there are bad boys, but they feel like 50s bad boys, but then you're like, oh, what are they doing? They're like, prostitution and cocaine dealing. And you're like, oh, well, that's distressing. And they're like, well, yeah.

Do you think that when Cherylyn Fenn walked in for her audition, Lynch literally fell out of his chair? Just like burst into flames. She's the most like Lynch-y lady imaginable. She also just looks somehow exactly like the 90s version of a 50s teenager. She's both at the same time. Yeah. Absolutely.

They filmed the show for the pilot for four million bucks. They had a great time. 21 days of shooting. One week per episode. Like it's crazy that they got this done. I wouldn't have been surprised if you, to read that this show was a weird example of him fighting for more days

to be able to pull off what he wanted. It's like, no, they basically worked on regular TV turnaround for that point. That's crazy. Yeah. The contracts required an alternate ending for a pilot, for the pilot so it could be distributed as a film in Europe. They had no ideas.

Lynch meets set, famously meets set dresser Frank Silva. And you know, I mean, there's just this iconic story of like, they're dressing Laura Palmer's bedroom. Frank's in there doing his thing. He's moving furnitures around. He moves a chest of drawers. It's in the doorway. And someone says, Frank, don't lock yourself in the room.

And Lynch is like, Frank, are you an actor? And he's like, sure. And he's like, do you want to be in it? Like he just sees him over in the corner and is like, ooh, and you know, Bob is born. And they have him sign a big contract basically, and they just start shooting footage of him. And here we go. Isn't there a thing too where like they realize

that he was being caught in the reflection of Laura Palmer's eye when they discovered the body? No, they were shooting a pan in the room, and I guess he's in there, and Lynch has the idea of like, crouched next to the bed behind the bars. Everyone can read this. Because even at the point where he...

This is so crucial to the lore of Twitter. Even at the point where he decides we're gonna make you an on-camera character, the guy's still doing double-toot, he has like... Yeah, they didn't replace the set deck. A set guy, and sometimes he'd be setting up shit, and they'd be like, no, actually, it helps... if you're on camera at this part.

They shoot, you know, basically a shot of her room, and they're like, we fucked it up, Frank, you can see Frank in the mirror. And David's like, no, that's good. Uh, and Frank Silva, who by all accounts was a nice guy, becomes the personification of the depths of human depravity as Bob, just looking like that. Becomes like the evil male. Guy with this kind of scraggly hair and a jean jacket.

And it's just, that's Bob. He does a great job for a non-actor, man. He died of HIV complications right after this ended basically. Oh man. Like right after Fire Walk with me, I want to say. Yes, in the mid 90s. I can look up the exact date. Like he had the exact arc of this show and then basically died tragically.

100%. Died in 95. He is very present in the return, but obviously just as a image. And you know, that's a thing. And then the Red Room, Mike Anderson was a guy, Michael J. Anderson, who plays the arm the man from another place, was supposed to be in Ronnie Rocket maybe. So Lynch had met him and had done some stuff with him, like camera tests or whatever. And the way Lynch puts it, like one night in the evening, he's out in a parking lot leaning against the car and the metal was very hot and the red room scene leapt into

his mind and little Mike was there and he was speaking backwards. Which is something that Anderson said he used to do as a child that he taught himself how to do as like his version of Pig Latin. Right. Right. I mean, this is all this is like, I feel like this is the fundamental mythos of Twin Peaks is this sort of David Lynch's described description of accidental storytelling and, you know, these beautiful images we think of it's like, I came to me when I touched a hot car.

Isn't this sort of like what the red room represents? you know, these beautiful images we think of. It's like, ah, it came to me when I touched a hot car. Right? You know, whatever. Isn't this sort of like what the Red Room represents? Like, not within the narrative of the show, right? Hot car. Hot car. But especially like looking at Cooper as an analog for Lynch, right? And his approach to mystery solving,

being analog to like Lynch's creative process. That the Red Room is like entering some flow state where there are like no bad ideas right where you're sort of just like opening your brain up to Am I touching the bad things am I finding the miracles? Am I missing something is the man from another world Mike's arm? Yes, I Didn't know you need to start to really care about Twin Peaks to unpack all this stuff. Like, you can just watch Twin Peaks and have a good time and vibe with it. You can also put together all of its logic.

It's pretty much there for you to assemble if you want to be a dork about it. You just don't have to be. I will be up front and say, I basically watched it this time the way you're saying the first way because I felt like trying to come in and be like fucking Deep and expert. I just didn't know he was the cut off arm I am like excited to watch this 18 more times across the rest of my life Mike says that he cut off his arm, you know to become good I think we're leaping ahead here and yes the man from another place

I can't remember when it might be in Firewalk with me, it might be, you know, says like, I am the arm, you know. And it's not important. And it's also, that's not like, this is what I love about Twin Peaks. That doesn't make any sense. It's not like you knowing that you're like, oh, well of course he was his arm. Arm is where evil is stored in the body.

It's not like that solves the question for you. Isn't the whole one-armed man thing that like Frost and Lynch use the fugitive as a big touch point in developing the show? This is why Frost and Lynch know what they're doing. You take things that people recognize, but then you also add in surreal logic. This is the thing that Storrs starts to do in the show, is he's like, our plan was always the fugitive, you're so fascinated by this guy's ongoing journey in the sense of this

larger narrative, and hanging over it is this thing of like, he's got to find the one-armed man, he's got to find the man who killed his wife, he's got to absolve himself and his reputation. But you never actually really make any progress on that. That's not really what it's about. It's kind of the MacGuffin that keeps him moving on to the new things. And that was their thing of like, maybe we just never solve the Laura Palmer thing. We know what the answer is, but that's not really the point. That's the entry point into these characters. So they put a one-armed man in this as an homage.

And then similarly, he shows up on set and Lynch is like, you're a good actor, plot line. Like, I think he was not really supposed to do anything. And I sound like this. Yes. Mike is great. So great. Mike Anderson?

Yeah. No, Mike. The. So great Mike Anderson. Yeah Another bull like Al Scroble you you are a professional television writer. You have been in many rooms Yes, I've been in much much lower stakes versions of these types of things But there is this feeling especially when you're on set, when you're gestating ideas, where someone has an idea that's really exciting and everyone riffs on it for like 20 minutes and there's like energy in the room and then someone says, I mean, we obviously can't use that. Right. Right. That's too interesting. Right. You're all laughing at this joke idea and it's like, but that's like too silly. We can't do that. Right. And it's so frustrating. And Lynch feels like a guy where he's just like,

I'm not accepting the we shouldn't do that or we obviously can't do that. Right. And it's so frustrating. And Lynch feels like a guy where he's just like, I'm not accepting the, we shouldn't do that or we obviously can't do that. This is like when I was working on Comedy Bang Bang and we had a non-speaking Jack Nicholson impersonator in a scene. Yeah. And he kept saying into my ear, because I was sitting next to him as an extra, this is as good as it gets. And I finally just like walked over to Scott and I was like, hey Scott, this guy keeps

saying this is as good as it gets. And then they just were like, okay, let's get him like a little contract. He's going to talk now. We got to pay him more. Right. I mean, Comedy Bang Bang actually feels like the perfect show for like, there's nothing you actually can't do. It's a show that basically perpetually takes place in a silly red room.

Exactly. 100%, right, yeah, the best kind of show. He never, he does, that's not the line too, made me so happy. Right, no one in As Good As It Gets is like, wow, this is as good as it gets. Yeah, he says, what if this is as good as it gets? It's not a movie about how life is great.

He's saying the opposite. Yeah, he made up a line, a Nicholson line, and he was just like, this is as good as it gets. Right. It is. That is... Anyway, that's what it feels. Wow.

This feels like my last detail. David Lynch, and I just like this quote, Angelo Barlamenti. That's the theme song. Lynch's direction to him. The music should start dark and slow. Imagine you're alone in the woods at night and you only hear the sound of wind and possibly the soft cry of an animal. And then he'd start playing and David would say, good, now get ready for a change because you see a beautiful girl. She's coming out from behind a tree and she's alone and in trouble. So go to a

beautiful melody and then reach a climax and let it tear your heart out. And that is the theme song of, you know, the theme music of Twimby. It is, it's so bizarre because obviously like all his musical pieces go through like movements and waves, but you take any one of those pieces and at any single moment it is simultaneously like serene. It feels like it could be playing under an ASMR video pure moods, right? Like hugely romantic sweeping old-fashioned drama and like deeply unsettling Yeah, like he's somehow hitting all three notes simultaneously at every second That that is the magic of it all and you think about the audience is locking into this show

Just the mission statement of the opening, of just like, here's like pure moods over like serene footage of fucking... Waterfall. ...lumber mills and... Like the fact that the saw is so early on... Yeah. ...in the intro and does feel like this relaxing element, somehow just kind of completely calibrates you to the tone of what the show is. I think if you watch Twin Peaks and you skip the intro, which these terrible services like you do

now, you are, it's like running without warming up or whatever. Like you're going to pull a muscle. You need to slide. It tells you how to watch it. Bob Iger had just taken over ABC. Now he does some other thing. I don't know what he does right now. Master class on leadership. That's right. He does master classes on leadership. He pretends to run for president. So he had ordered this pilot.

It's presented to him. And he liked the pilot. ABC is like, we can't put this on air. This is basically pornographic. Not pornographic in terms of sex. Just like, this is too bizarre. This will not vibe with whatever they had on air. People will storm our offices with pitchforks and torches.

Eiger has a gigantic fight with the room of New York executives. He wins, and the show is ordered as a mid-season show, you know, eight episodes, obviously. And as I think any Twin Peaks diehard will tell you, the first season of the show was written in advance. Was filmed with full complete scripts. And that does speak to the experience of watching it versus season two, where it's a more traditional TV show where they're not written all the way through, obviously.

And they're trying to anticipate stuff. The idea of, okay, season one was a success. What we should do is give Lynch and Frost another year to come up with eight Jule Cut episodes, which would have been the right decision, is something they probably could not even conceptualize at that point in time. It would not have made sense for anyone to say,

let's do less of a hit show, even if creatively it's a bad idea. But also the idea of like having a writer's room that they're not in, because they're on set, like doing Twin Peaks, that makes me sick to my stomach. It's so weird. You cannot do that. I was just digging into a little bit.

I mean, we'll talk about all in the season two episode. But like there are all these contrasting reports of like, at no point was ever anyone else really named the showrunner. That's a huge problem the show has in season two. There's no real showrunner. Lynch is not writing much anymore. Frost is even kind of taking a step back, and no one's really filling it in.

Right, where like sometimes David was around, and Frost was really gone, but he was never as around as he was in season one. Sometimes Frost was around, but Lynch was gone. Sometimes it was neither. The myth that needs to be dispelled, I think for a lot of people sometimes is that Lynch was doing Wild at Heart during season one. A lot of people think he departed for season two. He's in season two. Like he has a role in it. He starts Wild at Heart like right after season one wraps.

I'll give you the exact thing. Yeah. No. Oh, right after he does the pilot. Lynch shoots the pilot and the third episode, which is a very crucial episode, Xander, the skill to catch a killer. Then he goes off to do Wild at Heart and he says when he came back, he says, I don't really know what was going on with the show. It felt like a runaway train. I think if it'd been me and Mark writing together on every episode, we would have been okay. But that was basically impossible, right?

You know, because it's too much. And so at that point, there's a writer's room and they have kind of like guidelines. You know what I mean? They made up, yeah. Like, kind of like, these kinds of things should happen. These kinds of things shouldn't happen. These kinds of stories should be, we should be moving towards them.

But like, as you will especially see in season two, there are some story lines that are so fucking bananas. Yeah. That you're just like, where did this come from? And was this one line that someone said, like, hey, I think they should do like a Civil War reenactment plot. And the guy's like, what?

OK. Like, I don't know how some of this stuff made it all the way to the finish line. Eva, have you ever? No, sorry. I was going to say, I wanted him to say, like, they had a writer's room. They were shooting little basketballs.

They had a. It's so weird to think about just a normally staffed writer's room, just trying to... Just LaCroix. Nerf guns. What were you going to ask? I feel like most of the narrative shows you've worked on, you've been there from the start of the show. Have you ever joined a show on like a second or third season? Ooh, yes, but not ones that went...

Like I was on the second season of Why the Last Man, but then that got canceled a few weeks in. Yeah. So rude. It's a great time for television. It is, it's fun for that. But yeah, no, I usually start, I mean, comedy bang bang as well. I was in the first season, but narrative shows.

Yes, I've usually started the show. It just always feels like such a weird thing to me. And I know tons of people who have done it and no one is like, this is insane. But the idea of like joining a show that is already off and running, that you have seen, that you have watched. And now it's like, now everything you're writing up

for a thing that you're entering midstream is canon, does count, is real. Right, you're actually, the fan fiction is no longer fan fiction, say. That on top of the like, new kid in class energy of like, oh, most of you have already been working together and I'm just coming in here and every idea I have is supposed to be as valid as yours. Like, it just feels so strange to have a show that's so much about these two guys' dynamics. And then in season two, be like, can we just hire 10 people?

The answer is no. Right. It's like, but also the idea of when I think about those jobs a lot, if you're starting really late, like multiple seasons in, how do you not just pitch things that you're like, we already talked about that. We did that, we tried that, it doesn't work. Like, forever.

That part of it. That would be so, I'd be so scared. Like, thinking about people coming in and writing for The Simpsons now. Oh, you know. And it's like, how do you pitch an idea? That's a great question. And we know people who have that job.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, and it just like boggles my mind to be like, right. Yeah. I assume a show like that, it's kind of like, okay, buddy, welcome to The Simpsons, here's how this works. And you take it easy for a sec while you learn the right, because they must have such practices embedded

in the process, right? Or like a proceed, like a law and order type show, right? Where it's like, okay, we do this, we do this, we do this, like, yeah. But this is not an easy, an easy show to synthesize. And if you're trying to game it out from a distance, you're gonna get it wrong, because it is so much just about these two dudes.

But season one is very much not that. They have Harley Payton and Robert Engels, who write a couple episodes with them, but it's a much more contained process. Did you enjoy it? What'd you think, Griff? I liked it quite a bit. I mean, it's interesting that, as I'm watching season two right now, I feel myself getting

even more into it. Mm-hmm. Into one? Well, you love the characters at this point. Yeah. You know, yeah. And I'm like coming up on the reveal episode, which I know what the reveal is. And I know everyone's prepped me for like, this is about to fall off a cliff.

It's such a good episode. I have friends who defend the back half of season two more. I do know opinions in that vein, but I, yeah, I don't know. It's like, it's hard to, I don't know if you felt this, watching this, you know, slightly later in your life, but it's like weird to watch it fresh when you've had the sort of like pre-digested ephemera of the show around you for so long. And it's not just like, oh, when I was like 20

and I started watching Shears for the first time. And I'm like, I know all these reference points. I know the basics of what Shears is, but it's not like there's a dense mythology to it and there's 11 seasons of a show. And I'm like, these eight episodes have been like, so lionized in the culture, that it's weird to actually just watch it and like put all that inside and engage with what it actually is. Because as we said, there's so much less weird stuff,

or the real out there stuff in the first season than there is in the source. There's just a sprinkling. Just a sprinkling. It's true. It is very much about... the town and the people who live in it. Like, and the weird stuff is basically a couple glimpses of the Black Lodge slash Red Room. Some visions.

You know, some kind of spooky visions. And there's weird comedy. There's the sort of energy you wouldn't expect on a show like that. So fun. Like, this time I was just like, Nadine is so funny. Yes. Like, all the big Ed and Nadine scenes, they're just, I'm like, this is a funny lady.

I sent you guys the, um, the SNL parody. Yeah. That was, like, pretty famous. And you think about, A, what an interesting point in the culture where basically the idea of SNL parody. Yeah. That was pretty famous. And you think about, A, what an interesting point in the culture where basically the idea of SNL getting to parody X, whatever it is, felt like finally someone's going to take this down, right? You're tuning into SNL. The season premiere for season 15 is Kyle McLaughlin hosting,

right as season two of Twin Peaks is about to start. He's responding to the cultural tidal wave that these first eight episodes had created just a few months earlier. It's almost like the speed at which Roger Jean-Page hosts SNL after Bridgerton blows up on Netflix. Usually it's not that fast for someone to get put up onto the SNL stage, right?

And you feel the energy from the audience during that Twin Peaks sketch of like, here we go. There's no Twitter. for someone to get put up onto the SNL stage, right? And you feel the energy from the audience during that Twin Peaks sketch of like, here we go. There's no Twitter. There's no fucking college humor shorts. No one's been able to make fun of this thing yet, right? And they're trying to hit like all the points on it. And at the end of the sketch,

Mike Myers comes on as Michael J. Anderson. And the audience is like, here we go, finally. Someone's acknowledging that this thing was fucking weird. And it's so weird to watch that and be like, he was on the show for four minutes at that point. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there had been reruns or whatever, but it's like, watching the show must have kind of been,

afterwards, you're like, did I imagine this part like that's the way that about I mean on the the blu-ray box set They had like TV bumpers for like watch Twin Peaks again from the beginning that I think was running that summer Like they gave people a second on ramp. It's only eight episodes. Yes But both of the that episode I watched the monologue and I watched the Twin Peaks parody. And both of them are really built around jokes of, here's the answer to who killed Laura Palmer. Mmm. Who shot Mr. Burns? Right. Like everyone's on edge about this. Did you see like TV Guide had a poll?

Yeah. Where people were voting on who they thought did it? Who are the options? It was everyone, but like everyone thought Dr. Jacobi did it. Well, he is the most sort of loud red herring. Yeah. I mean we're sort of guys we're not gonna spoil spoil to season two or whatever but like I guess it was spoiled for me years before I watched it. I think it's kind of hard to be a person engaged in the media and not know the answer because so much of the discourse around what went off the rails

talks about that episode and what happened afterwards. Then do you know who killed Laura Palmer? I do. We won't say it here. That's after the reveal, the next episode. That's when you stop. That's when I stop. I think a lot of people in our generation

who were catching up with Twin Peaks just kind of naturally knew, well, this seems like a good place in any to kind of wind this down. I got other stuff to do. Also, I think 2001, they released the first season on DVD. Yeah. And then they never put out season two. It took many years.

Yeah, eventually there's the full box set. And then they did the gold box set. But there was like an extended period where you could only watch season one Interesting where season two was even out of circulation. Hmm Do you just want to say? No, no, sir. Should we not? Maggie Simpson Maggie Simpson did it Laura Palmer tried to steal her candy. I didn't know who shot mr.

Burns I would watch that live. Kid at school spoiled it for me. Felt really pleased with himself. Yeah, well, kids do. The other SNL sketch, the model... No, no, I think this is a little important. Let's talk about Twin Peaks after this. Right after this, yes.

There's the one that's the full parody that's Chris Farley's first appearance on the show. Wow. Where he plays Leo. And the whole premise of the sketch is that's Chris Farley's first appearance on the show. Wow. Where he plays Leo. Leo. And the whole premise of the sketch is that Leo's walking in and saying, I did it, I'm guilty. He's very good. He's very good.

Yeah. And from like where you leave the show at the end of season one, you could see that being like, well, Leo's certainly wild and out by the end of the season. He seems super dangerous and crazy. The minor bird called Leo out. Right. And Cooper keeps on going like, this is interesting. This gives me some new ideas in the case. And everyone's like, he just confessed except that the case is closed, right?

Right. The monologue is, Kamagloklin comes out and he's like, I had this fun idea to do sort of a question and answer with the audience. I don't think anyone's ever done this in their monologue before. And the first question is like, how do you pronounce your name? And he's like, it's Muckloklin. And they're like, oh, great. Thank you. And the second question is like, where are you from?

And he says the name of his town. It's the most mundane thing, right? Like the audience is laughing at like, these are uninteresting questions and answers. And then the third guy is Jim Downey stands up and he's like, hey, less of a personal question, more of a Twin Peaks fan who killed Laura Palmer. And he goes, oh, it's a Shelley the waitress Any other questions and then like a stagehand comes and goes Kyle There's a call for you in the control room, and he gets in there, and he picks up the phone

He goes oh David hi they show a still photo of David Lynch They say the voice of David Lynch, and then you just hear like Oh David no I hadn't thought about that and it's like 30 seconds of this voice yelling at him for ruining the show. And the audience explodes at the reveal of it being David Lynch. Even though the guy's not doing a David Lynch impression.

But it's just, they know what that is. The idea of him was so big at that point. And then he comes out and he was like, I was just kidding, we don't know who the killer is. But both sketches are based around like, everyone wants to know this fucking answer. And this show is one of those classic examples of like moonlighting is also cited as like, the motor of the show is the thing that you can never actually get to. And the second you get there, everyone's gonna fucking lose interest. In that sense,

it is wild where this season ends. Yeah. Um, this season ends with Cooper getting shot and the mill burning down. And not really being any closer to answers. No. No. They're, no offense to them, horrible cops. Yeah. Like, they're not good at solving the murder of Laura Palmer. No. They're throwing rocks at bottles. They do throw rocks at bottles.

And that's an interesting take by them. And they do have a sort of, you're right, they have a sort of overflow of scumbags. So they can't just be like, well, Leo seems aggro. Yeah, he probably did it. Like, you know, like. He's the one. And Laura does had such a dark life

that it can't just be like, oh, well, Laura was mixed up with this person. It's like, well, no, she was mixed up with like eight shady people. So yes, they have that going against them. But I do, like, they never really figure anything out. And then the killer is revealed to them kind of, you know, without their intervention, really. Sure. I don't know.

Which is fine. I don't care. I think so much in, like, the Lynch, all his post-Blue Velvet work, how much he is sort of reacting and responding to how much talk there was of like misogyny and sort of like, was he using like abuse as a plot device, you know? Is he being like exploitative or whatever. And it does feel like he is a guy who is like earnestly, emotionally, empathetically interested in domestic abuse, not using it as like a hot button to push. But the show starts in such an interesting point where you're like, here's this like young woman with this angelic like high school photo who's discovered these horrible

circumstances and most shows would do like she was the perfect girl and she's murdered who would do such a thing. And they're so upfront with like the last 48 hours of her life were insane. They were pretty insane. Like they uncover the sort of secret double life of Laura Palmer basically immediately. Yeah, it's not a huge secret. Right, which is part of why the case is hard to solve because you're just like, oh, she was in with so many bad people. All of these threads are intertwined.

It's not like she has one on-edge boyfriend. It's also like Bobby's big speech at the funeral. You know, we all did it, right? You know, like that's the point, right? And like, just like Blue Velvet, right, the real point is like this town is beautiful. And it is something that you're just like, I wanna be here, but it's, you know, there's so much horrible stuff turning away behind it. She had become like the receptacle for all of the sins and darkness

in this town. The rot. I won't speak to, well, I guess it's more of a season two thing. But yes, like I think that Lynch is very, you know, drawn to horrible darkness and the unspeakable crimes of abuse that Laura suffers. Right. And in Twin Peaks, you can watch it and you can be like,

well, Bob did that. He's a monster that causes evil. He's a supernatural force. Right. But obviously, Bob is just a manifestation of like unspeakable things. Like, if you just want... You can watch the show, it's like sci-fi, if, like, Bob is a monster who inhabits people

and makes them do bad things. It's like, or is Bob just David's way of processing the most unimaginable thing? That's exactly what I see it as. Yeah, but also, Bob doesn't inhabit Leo. Like, he doesn't inhabit other people in the cast who do terrible shit. He has a bad vibe, I will say. I'm gonna say, I don't inhabit other people in the cast who do terrible shit.

He has a bad vibe, I will say. I'm gonna say, I don't want Bob to come at me. I do think he has kind of a negative vibe that he brings to the party. And I do think he's kind of bringing the vibe down at Twin Peaks generally. I think so. Even though he's only inside one person, basically, I do feel like there's a... As Twin Peaks goes on, the point is like, we're very close to the darker world here. I think it's what you said. The Black Lodge. I think there's this interestingly pure,

almost childlike view of like, we've talked about this, but the blue velvet thing of like, look at this perfect lawn, and then six inches below, there's worms in the ear and all this sort of shit that people read as him saying Oh secretly all of these places are evil Which is not what he's saying what he's saying is what he finds confounding about the world is that these two things exist dancing against each other right cool and

Yeah, Bob is like him I in my in, much like what you said, is him being like, I do not understand how people can be outwardly nice and polite and capable of something this evil. You saying there's an argument that like, well, that's a face and that's an act that someone puts on to cover up their evilness. But he's still like, this type of action is unfathomable to me. And the only way that someone could be capable of doing that... So, sure. And also making polite conversation... Yeah.

...is if there's some other force at play that I don't understand. And also, if someone like the FBI... Yes. ...and a sort of a hero from another era steps in and is like, I'm here to solve the case. Right. It's like, what happened? This awful thing happened, Dale. Like this terrible, terrible thing here to solve the case. It's like, what happened? This awful thing happened, Dale. This terrible, terrible thing happened to a young woman.

And here's what we were finding out about. And he's like, must be like a monster. That's what I can defeat. I can't defeat ambiguous inhuman behavior, but I can fight evil spirits. Right? I don't know. It's a perfect thing for Dale to try to deal with.

And I think as Twin Peaks goes on, especially in the return, it's about the limits of what Dale can achieve. Like, Dale thinks he can deal with this stuff, but he can't. And especially this town that basically has this like pipeline for commodifying young women. Yeah.

Like basically waiting until the moment they get turned. One Night Jacks is a legitimate establishment, okay? I'm not questioning that. It's got a very strong business model. It's really nice. Like basically waiting until the moment they get one on Jax is a legitimate establishment Business model, it's really nice. Like I say, it's maybe the nicest Disgusting underage brothel that is a cocaine It's like Adam McGoy's Exotica of like broth like dude Adam McGoy's Exotica is a, where you're like, who had the money to build this? It's huge! Like, is this CD or is it like Disney? It's massive! Sorry. One Eye Jacks.

No, I was just gonna say, if I saw One Eye Jacks featured in an architectural digest spread, I'd be like, this place is lovely. If you weren't telling me what the business was. Look, I have a membership, I just hang out at the bar. It's just, you don't have to fuck any underage girl. You put your laptop there, you just go there to write. Yeah, exactly. You can gamble a little bit, but it's like you just get on Martin, you chill. One I'm Jack's is a good epitome of like, you know, summation of Twin Peaks, right?

Where you're like, God, yes, vibes immaculate. What happens here? Oh, incest, you know, child abuse, drug dealing, like terrible, terrible things. Everyone who works for these monsters. This one guy who's got his fingers in all of the quaint businesses of the town uses the fucking perfume counter as a pipeline

to funnel young women into prostitution. That's why Twin Peaks, so I had seen Twin Peaks, but now we're doing David Lynch, I'm gonna watch Twin Peaks, and I'm like, ah man, is it gonna bum me out to mainline Twin Peaks? Twin Peaks, but now we're doing David Lynch. I'm going to watch Twin Peaks. And I'm like, ah, man, like, is it going to bum me out to like mainline Twin Peaks? Like Twin Peaks is disturbing. Yeah. And I'm watching it. You had that pushback on when we were doing a, a, a Park Cheon Wook. Where you were just like a lot of kids dying and roadies as well as you similarly wanted to. Park Cheon Wook remains the most bummed out I was. Yeah. Delving

into a filmography that I had largely seen. A lot of dead kids. A lot of dead kids. Runs Tracer. And JJR Researcher, who loves David Lynch, has been in a little bit of a like. He's in a funk. Yeah. I'm not.

I love this shit. For whatever reason, it tells the stories in a way that I can handle better. And I've been very happy having just Twin Peaks on and thinking about Twin Peaks, even though, yes, then I will be like, oh God, but it really is about something that's awful. I do think, I mean, and I think that's the reason why some people, especially at the time, now I think this has basically been dropped as a conversational thread.

But like, is there something crass about the way that Lynch keeps going back to this as a subject or inciting plot points or, you know, dramatic centers or whatever? And I do think it is just him constantly trying to wrap his head around how could this happen. Right. In somewhere that I love or somewhere that I think is cool or... Right. Yeah. And it is just, I mean, this is cultural conversations we're constantly having or just like, it happens

so much more than you think it does. Yeah. I mean, if it's like this in Mulholland Drive too, it's like the magic of Hollywood or the magic of, you know. Yeah. This veneer of any form of polite society or business or right, normal quote unquote behavior. Do do do.

David Snaplin. David Snapper. The pilot begins with Laura Palmer's corpses discovered wrapped in plastic. What do you guys think of that? I don't know how to tackle Twin Peaks. Like, I don't know how we do this. Sure.

Are you gonna do the summary of the entire season? Yeah, let's do it. Line by line. No, this is what I'm saying, like... I don't know what we do now. What do we do now, Griffin? David's glancing at the clock in the rush season. Yeah, let's do it line by line. No, this is what I'm saying. Like, I don't know what we do now. What do we do now, Griffin? David's glancing at the clock in the rush. Talk about standout characters, maybe? Yeah, I feel like going through it episode by episode maybe makes less sense than talking holistically

about the season plot lines. Yes, that's maybe the best way to do it. The better way to go through it. Because it's also, I mean, obviously the crime is keeping you engaged and wanting, you know, the wanting to see this through. But I love the character. They find this body that is very like,

there is a certain weird angelic serenity on her face. Yes, it's being presented to them in this sort of beautiful, terrible way. Right, she's painted in like almost stylized, like blue, frozen lady makeup, right? Like, there's something, there is this odd, and even just the way the plastic splays around her and whatever. And she's connected to kind of the river and the waterfall,

which is so iconic. It's where I had my first kiss. Wow. Go? The waterfall? Yeah, the waterfall. Whoa. This must be so weird for you to watch.

Did someone, like, take you to the waterfall, and you're like, oh, I'm being taken to Make Out Point? This is where it all happens in the Falls, River, or whatever the hell. Did you know Call Me Falls? Did you think that most of the other people you were growing up with there had watched the show or similar to you where they were too weird? Oh, no one watched it. No one watched it.

Yeah, no one. I was in middle school too. It's also a time when it's harder to just watch. Like you said, the show was less available. I would check back in with some middle school friends who were cool and be like, hey, did you ever watch Twin Peaks? But I'm not sure. Are those waterfalls nice? They look beautiful.

And the lodge is really cool too. Everyone would have their prom parties there and stuff. But it's a good place to like... Yeah, the Snow Call Me Lodge is like an incredible building. And the falls are shocking. They're very tall. And Mount Si, which is what Twin Peaks is, it's just a single mountain, not two,

is also a really fun hike. It's a big bit of a goof. I was gonna say. I'm gonna lie. Yeah, but uh... I hate being lied to! I hate these ghosts! It is a beautiful, drizzly...

Ghosts are lies, weird place. Yeah. I mean, that's my climate. Like, I imagine it's a damp place. You would love it. It's very England-y. Did you guys have airing closets? That's a very British thing.

Airing closets? Airing closets. You mean like a mudroom? No, I feel like a mudroom is where's where you like take off your shoes before you walk in your house. No, most British houses have these things called Eirend closets that are like basically a less damp room because your whole house is so fucking damp because you live in England. So there's this one room where you can dry shit out anyway.

Oh, wow. Wait, no. Hold on. How does it work? How does it work? I have no idea. Ours was like But ours was like with Erin cupboard. Sorry ours was like with the boiler Okay, like the boiler it heats things up. Oh sure. Yeah. Okay. Okay, Eva Do you remember like your dad's? Explanation or justification of what drove him like what it was exactly that he responded to like when he pitches to you you guys were moving, you had been living in Los Angeles at that point?

Yes, and it was a combination, I think, of just... My parents wanted to leave Los Angeles. There had been an earthquake that had freaked my mom out. And I think they wanted to just get to a different... Just go somewhere else, and I think they settled on this area very quickly. My dad had around this time also been meeting with David Lynch about a script he had written.

I was going to say it's kind of surprising they never worked together. My dad adapted the book Geek Love and briefly like David Lynch was going to make it. Oh yes, right. It would never happen. Was he going to act in it as well? No, I think it was just, but he had some of those Bob's Big Boy meetings. And so he did say he drank lots of milkshakes. But I don't know why, I mean, it's beautiful, but it's so different from LA and it was like

a such a just a wild move. But your dad also did a TV show, right? I was gonna say, I was talking to Dash about this. He was flying to LA to do two days a week on Dave's World while you were living? Five days a week. That's wild. And then he'd come back for the weekend, basically? Yes.

Yes, for several years. That sounds hard. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend anyone do that. Your dad, the great Harry Anderson, whose work I idolize, always in reading about him and some of the things you've told me me had that kind of fascinating thing of just being like Very successful within show business and having kind of like a deep distaste and distrust for show business Yeah, exactly where I understand the impulse to be like oh you and your brother are getting older I do I want to raise the kids here

Do I want to be in this if I have enough power that I can live somewhere else and still do the work, can I make my own rules? It's just funny that this is the thing that he sparked too and then was like, I'm moving there. Haunted town of demons. He took a full year. I know, it was a town of demons. No, he took also a year where he just like didn't work at all and he was like a volunteer fireman? While? In Fall City. Yeah, and also like an umpire for Little League.

He did like a lot of small town jobs. And then he was like, I'm bored, I'm going back. Right. Dave Barry. I'm going to be him. I'm going to play Dave Barry on a show with Shadow Stevens. What's his world like? What's that guy's world like?

Yeah. So weird choices overall. I'm mom, if you're listening to this, I'm probably wrong about a lot of it. Sure. You were young. She listens to my podcasts. Does she really? Yeah, she likes to listen to podcast episodes.

Hi, Eva's mom. Hi, Eva's mom. All right, so okay, let's characters. Okay, so Dale Cooper. Yes. What do we think of him? I think. Played by Colin McLaughlin.

He's a special agent in the FBI. I texted you guys this. Yeah. Let's just get into it. Problematic. A cab. Problematic fave. Eva wants to drag Dale Cooper on Maine.

He has not aged well. No. I think... No, no, not really. But it was a fun text chain for us to be saying that he was a fuckboy. I do think... We were doing the fake. Dale Cooper never really had sex.

I do think that Dale's limitations are crucial to later Twin Peaks. I think it's season one... Well, I can't speak to that. I think it's season one that's less true. He's more of this really fun ingredient. Sure. Of just like everyone else is the small town guy and he is so into the small town, but he's an oddity among them. It's interesting to me that we-

It's like what if Fox Mulder never left, like he shows up to do an X-File in some weird town where they're like, yeah, fucking, you know, whatever, Jersey Devil lives here and he's like, I like it here. Yeah. I'm just gonna stay. He's kinda like your dad where he was just like. I'm gonna, we should move here immediately. Right. It's also the thing of being like, usually the cliche would be like, oh, I can't

believe I'm hanging out with these yokels. And then he just immediately like, I love it. These are good people. Everything's cool. It's good people. The food is great. The trees are great. I'm, I'm doing the opposite of what you think.

Because whenever you get glimpses of the agency or they come to visit him, you're just like, the vibes are so much more haggard. I mean, Albert, who is one of my favorite Twin Peaks characters, Miguel Ferrerro. But when he shows up, right, he's the one who's like, this place fucking sucks. Like, why are you into this? And this is the fucking guy from any other mystery

cop show you've watched. Right, this is exactly the fish out of water. Right, where he's like, ugh, small town. Like, you're not even dressing. There's a season two episode where he's like, you're not even dressing well anymore. Like, why are you wearing a flannel shirt? It's so funny.

Yeah. But, yes, but Dale, he likes coffee. He talks into a tape recorder to Diane, the unseen assistant. This is what I was gonna say. That we've talked a lot about how funny David Lynch is as like a person and his behavior Sure and his whole energy and how his movies are often very funny But I feel like he rarely has a character that is funny in the way that he is funny as a person

Yes, like this is we're talking about how much he is an analog for Lynch himself I'm talking about how much he is an analog for Lynch himself. But this is also the only character that captures that weirdness for me. Isn't just like this is Lynch's sense of humor, but this is the behavioral oddness of Lynch. And I wonder if the key to that is having the collaborator in Mark Frost, having someone working with him who also has a perspective, a step outside of Lynch. I will say that there's a lot more of it in The Return in a very nice way. Like funny guys.

Yeah. Yeah. And also, as you said, like he and McLaughlin growing together and... Yeah. But even just other characters are like, this guy's just here for fun. Yeah. Yes. Cooper in season one, well, he's trying to solve Laura Palmer's murder.

He's very drawn to her, uh, sort of, right? Like her story. And they immediately identified, like, she has a ton of drugs in her system. She's tangled in this like naughty web of like relationship intrigue with a bunch of other kids at school. The public presentation of her is she's the prom queen. She was the, um, girlfriend to Bobby Briggs, who is the son of a military man

and is, you know, the sort of sensible sort of golden boy. Although he's total fuck up. Is the James Dean type of the town as well? No, I would say the James Dean type is James Hurley. She's secretly dating, but she wasn't really that entangled with James, who she actually thought of as a sort of sweetie pie, more than like a dark,

you know, boyfriend type. And she was actually also a sex worker. I was gonna say. So was maybe part of One Eyed Jacks, but would also just like be a random sex worker. She was a drug addict. The facts they get at immediately are she had a bunch of cocaine in her system. She had three sexual partners in the last 24 hours of her life. Like, all these things that just immediately feel incongruous with... The Stull photo.

Yeah, just this tutor, this nice tutor. Right, so she was a tutor. She did meals on wheels. Yeah. Her dad is, you know, a lawyer who's a part of this, you know, big part of the city. Like, you know, grew up in this picture perfect life, yada yada yada. Dude, I think it's at the beginning of season two

where Russ Tamblyn says the thing of like, it almost feels like he's implying that Laura Palmer killed herself, and Cooper pushes back on it. And he's like, I'm not implying she killed herself. I'm just saying she might have allowed herself to be killed. Which feels like the key to the character is this feeling of like, there was so much suffering going on for someone who was trying so hard.

Yeah, that's really well put. Yeah. But I would say throughout season one, we learn lots of things about Laura, but we don't learn who killed her really. And Cooper will have these dreams where he goes to another place with a chevron floor and red velvet curtains similar to our room people ask the kind of room we record in and it is very Lodgy we don't have a chevron floor though. I'd like I want we have big red curtains, but then the walls are white

But it's similarly just a weird perfectly cubed windowless room. What if we had some statues, you know, like a little Venus de Milo windowless room. What if we had some statues? You know, like a little Venus de Milo? I'd put a Buster Keaton statue. I, really quick, when I was in Moscow years ago with Amy Nicholson for the Moscow Film Festival, I went to a knockoff Sleep No More that they had

in downtown Moscow. And... And, Eva, you will go to a knockoff Sleep No More in any country. And the way they onboarded you in Russian was they brought you to a room that looked exactly like the Black Lodge and they played the Twin Peaks theme. Oh, so it was over. Yeah, and then they gave you some sleep No more masks that they had stolen from sleep no more

This rules. And then they sent you into the mansion which was full of you know dancing people But it was very funny to just be like oh, you're just doing they just did. You're using the shorthand But like this kind of vibe. Yeah, it's like this, all of Twin Peaks, just stolen. But as you said, there's a lot less of that in the first season. And he's more drawn to this, like, life. And these people. He loves the aesthetics of the local cops. Their coffee, their donuts. He thinks they're like good, moral people.

Which is so interesting because he's basically entering this like Den of immorality right weird cheating and lying every right and like he meets Josie Packard And then first thing he says to Truman is like how long you've been sleeping with her like it's not like he's like Morally upright in that way sure, but he sees like goodness in the good characters of twin It is wild how much sex everyone is having with everyone. Except for Dale Cooper. Correct. Dale never fucks anybody.

If the story is true, Laura Flynn Boyle saved us from maybe feeling weird about Dale Cooper. Lynch and Frost at the time were like, that was going to be one of our big threads for season two. And one of the reasons the season went off the rails Audrey is very lost in season two. ...was because we couldn't have them end up together. And I'm like, I think history...

It's probably better the way the dynamic plays out. Exactly. Of like the tension of it. Like she's got a big crush on him. He does the right thing. Instead of him being like, yeah, sure, I will. I'm gonna fuck this teenager. Right. Audrey, who is the high schooler who goes the least to school of these high schoolers

who never go to school, you're like, is Audrey even enrolled? Is anyone aware that she's not at school? There's one episode where someone says to Ben Horne, like, you know, your daughter hasn't been seen at school in three months. And he's like, oh yeah, where is she? And it's like, she fucking lives at one iJack. She's like an FBI undercover agent, sort of? Like, I mean, isn't she supposed to learn algebra

or whatever? She's just going around your hotel, bothering groups of people. But I like that she's sort of his weird version of like an encyclopedia brown, Hardy Boy, his like- Yeah, Nancy Drew. Nancy Drew, yes, yes. She's funny because she should be entangled in the, there's sort of a love triangle, right? Brown, Hardy Boy, Nancy Drew. Yes. Yes.

She's funny because she should be entangled in the, there's sort of a love triangle, right? Like a love rhombus. Because it's like Laura now dead. You bang. Go on. Hey rhombus. Bobby, her boyfriend. James her actual boyfriend.

Donna her best friend, but Donna likes James. Right? That's what's funny. Everyone in this show is cheating on everyone else. And you're like, wouldn't this person be upset? And they're like, no, because they're having an affair with the other person. They actually worked up with that guy. Right. Everyone has two partners. Right. Because Bobby actually really likes, you know, Shelley,

the Manchanamma character, but Shelley's married to Leo, who's abusive. But Leo actually likes evil. Right. He just likes evil. Right. He's just like fucking evil. Right. Just being awful. And evil. Right. Yeah. And then, right, of course, you know, then you have Peggy Lipton, the beautiful, perfect, beautiful Peggy Lipton.

Insane. How do you feel about her though? She's so gorgeous as Norma, the diner owner, the double R is the diner, and she really loves Big Ed, but Big Ed isn't, is married to, um, uh, what's her name? Jesus Christ. You said her name, Nadine, the great Nadine, who is of course, uh, insane. And again, this is, it's like, it's, it's another great lynch thing. Nadine is clinically depressed slash bipolar or something, right? Like she has like a medical, like mental illness.

She also has one eye. She does have one eye, we learn why later. But she does not work at one-eye jacks. No, she doesn't work at one-eye jacks. These are the subtleties, these are the nuances of it. But like, Nadine is a sad character. And Big Ed, his love for her is real. Like, you know, like you get, or like his protectiveness for her,

even though he doesn't like want to be married to her. Ed, I think, is like one of the warmer characters on the show. I love Ed so much. Yeah, because like, Bobby, I mean, not Bobby, James isn't even his son? Yes. No, James is just his like ward. It's just a guy who shows up with his mic and is like, how you doing, James? You need some advice today?

But, but like Ed's, like, like so... Nadine is like compellingly tragic. Yeah. But also she's obsessed with making silent drape runners. Right. And that is objectively just fucking funny. Like she's yelling at him about cotton balls and oil and stuff. She's annoying. She doesn't get into season...

In season two she thinks she's a teenager and gets superpowers. But also Big Ed explains the whole history of the relationships where it's sort of like there were these kind of sliding doors of like yes These moments where we could have broken up and then something tragic happened and we were fused back together Peggy Lipton was like his high school sweetheart Everyone thought they were gonna get together and then they were like on a break and then like briefly this one moment They get married very quickly him and Nadine and yeah Peggy Lipton's so hot Her husband, who's her evil husband?

Norma's evil husband? Yes, fuck. One of my least favorite characters. He's just a little- Hank. But Hank's a great actor. Great actor, love that actor. And Chris Mulkey's the actor.

I feel like he never has much to do in Twin Peaks. He's a little one note as written. He's just like, I'm worse than Leo. Right. Why is he? He's sort of- He's kind of better and worse. Can I give you my take? He's Snake from one note as written. He's just like, I'm worse than Leo. Right. Is he? He's sort of better and worse. Can I give you my take? He's Snake from The Simpsons.

Oh, he is, yes. Where it's like, I'm a criminal. And you're gonna do a bad thing? Right. I'll shoot someone. And he's even sort of got the hair. And you're like, I get that your whole identity is doing crimes. You don't seem that bad.

You sound illegal. Whereas Leo, it's like, dude, like, Leo feels like a guy that I would be like, hey, how you doing, man? He's like, what the fuck? And like push me across a room and I'd be in a fight with a guy I'd never met. Leo has great fashion, though. I kept noticing he had really good shirts and jackets.

Leo is played by Eric DeRay, who is Joanna Ray's son. With Aldo. With Aldo Ray. Yeah. And so in a way, you're kind of like, oh, they just, because like Leo in season one especially, it's like he's not that important. He's just Shelly's awful husband and he's mean to her

and he's very obviously a possible Laura Palmer killer, maybe too obvious, right? And you know, did they just give this guy a role just kind of being nice, right, to join a Rey, I guess? But he kind of, especially later on, to join a ray, I guess. But he kind of, especially later on, he kind of rocks like the actor. Like, there's a weird crazy humor to him. And he's sort of kind of like what you're saying about Chris Mulkey, like a cartoon in a nasty way, but like in kind of a pivotal way, right? I don't know.

Yeah, no, no, I don't know, I'm not able to describe Leo. Yeah, no, no, I agree with you. Can we talk about all the teenage boys together? Okay, so the teenage boys, we got Bobby, played by Dana Ashbrook, my personal favorite, I love Bobby. I guess, is Bobby Moore the like, Warren Beatty Splinter in the Grass archetype? Sure, but he is the golden boy,

he's supposed to be kind of like the football star, right? He's supposed to... But he does have that like, you're tearing me apart energy, which is why I even invoked James Dean. That's fair. He's maybe not the James Dean character archetype, but I feel like in the emotionality of the performance,

he's got the James Dean energy. He's got the anger. He's also like, he's like one of the Jets. Yes, yes. Because James, even though he has the aesthetics of Marlon Brando or whatever, like this biker boy, James Dean, whatever, he's a very sweet boy.

Yes. Like he's very soulful. And he's more emotionally bottled. Right, and Laura was clearly drawn to him not because she wanted to fuck him, but because she like saw the kind of sweetness and sadness And yes, like he the actor remind me his name the actors, of course James Marshall jumps from this has Key role beyond key role in a few good men. Oh

Of course, he's really good in that really good And I was like what why did this guy not have a bigger career? And he comes back for the return or whatever. I read that he launched a like $15 million lawsuit against Accutane. The acne medication. That he had very bad acne and was taking it in these early days of his acting career. And then it caused him serious health problems. And it sounds like one of these cases. That stuff is really intense.

I mean, it's like, right. Especially back in the day. It's like military grade. But he, like, had a trial where, like, fucking Rob Reiner and, like, I think David Lynch was a witness as well. Wow. Like, all the people who worked with him in the early 90s were like, this guy was about to blow up and his career was completely derailed. That's interesting. Because of this medication. And I believe the case was thrown out. There was some small settlement. But it's upsetting. He's really, really fucking good.

He's great in Twin Peaks. I will say he is, objectively, without debate, the actor most screwed over in season two. They give him the one storyline that is unwatchable. And it takes several episodes where they truly, do you know what I'm talking about? Maybe you didn't make it. I forgot. Where they truly are kind of like,

what should James do? And they're like, James goes off to this story and you'll see it. But I do think he's a great presence. Yeah, he has a great presence. I do feel like it's interesting this time around, I was like, all the teenage boys are also beautiful women. Yes.

So true. They're very pretty. Like Dana Ashbrook's very pretty. Oh yeah. Very pretty. There's also pretty. Like Dana Ashbrook's very pretty. Oh yeah. Very pretty. There's also something with his acutene face, not Dana Ashbrook, right? James Marshall.

James Marshall, where like he is so smooth looking. Yeah. Right? There is that weird unnatural quality to him being on this like insane medication. He has crazy, the bones look like they have like... The bone structure. Kissable lips. Yes. The most kissable, beautiful mouths.

Right. Are there any other boys we need to talk about though? There's a blonde boy, but I don't think he matters very much. Oh no, but he's a, I love that guy. Yeah, he's fun. What do you want? I need to find his name. Uh, cause he's, he never leaves the show and he's even in season, he's even in The Return.

Pretty much everyone's in The Return. He's a sycophant. Um, but that actor is also just someone I know. What the hell's his name? You're talking about Bobby's best friend. Yeah, Bobby's best friend. What the hell's his name? Oh, God. Cut this all out. Keep it all in. Double it.

Oh, God. Cut this all out. Keep it all in. Double it. Mike. Mike Nelson. Right. It's the other problem. There's like multiple Mikes. There's multiple. Played by Gary Hershberger, who I also know right from six feet under he's the villain in six feet under thank you the villain six feet under is death yeah well no that would say six years about accepting death no he's the the guy in six feet under who represents the like funeral chain who's trying to like

absorb them into like whatever it is, you know, that's fun Anyway, love that actor talk about my call sort of like The mill yeah the mill faction, right? Sure just to wrap the boys Oh, it's like James seems like the bad boy James actually basically a good boy One of the book house boys who we can talk at, you know, sort of an honorary or a fledgling book house boy And then right, Bobby, the golden boy with his dad is one of my favorite characters. And it's a very important character later on. Garland Briggs, he is basically a drug mule. He and Leo are basically like

running drugs into town under the auspices of more evil guys. But they're- Two-legged, one-eyed jacks, right? Yeah, but they're awful. Basically four one-eyed jacks, rather. Yes, yes, yes. And Bobby is an interesting character and who will kind of clean it up in The Return,

which you'll see, and he has, in my opinion, the greatest moment of acting in The Return that makes me cry. But he's kind of just a nasty little fucker in season one. Like there's nothing much, nothing lovable about Bobby. He's a fucking monster. Yeah. Yeah, he's full of pain.

He's full of pain. But he's also just a little, he barks like a dog, he's a little bitch. He's cruel. Yeah. He's very cruel. But there's also, there's the thing, and you know, he's grieving to some degree and he's dealing with his guilt and whatever

Yeah, but there's that thing of like if you start a show with a dead body and then you're like great We got to interview her boyfriend and immediately find out he was cheating on her Yeah, you're gonna jump straight to fuck this guy. Yeah, and also they're like Laura's Eddie's like, huh? What? Is the first episode like Twin Peaks is largely not so sad. Yes. But the first episode is really sad. Like, Donna crying in the classroom, like, obviously,

Grace Siporski just screaming, like, you know, like, leaving them freaking out. Yeah, a lot more Josie shutting down the mill. Grief. It's right. It's more like this town has kind of been cooking. It knew something was wrong. Yeah.

And Laura, this angel is dead. And it's like the whole thing is cracking open. Now everyone kind of has to look at the evil they've been trying to ignore. Yeah. And it's fucked up. And then every time Dale is like, I'm getting a damn good coffee, you're like,

thank God this guy's here, man. Like he's chilling me out. Like everyone else is freaking me out. The mill, okay, so yeah, the mill. Okay. So yeah the mill there's a mill Griffin yes Which is it's quite a complicated series of it's it's run by Josie Packard, right? It's kind of the financial center of the town sure her husband has died somewhat recently in a boating accident. Yes Watch out for season two run by Josie who is right who is has inherited it and

is for season two, run by Josie, who is, right, who has inherited it and is an out of towner. Am I? She's from China. I was gonna say, am I wrong for assuming, knowing that I still have not watched a lot of the show, that she was someone who went through the One Eye Jacks pipeline? You are wrong for assuming that. Okay. Yes.

I just thought it was interesting, the way they talk about later in the season when you're watching Audrey go through it and you're hearing her meet the other sort of women there, that the whole idea is like, and this is how you get access to the wealthiest men in town. This is how you get their ear. Her backstory is just that she met Andrew Packard, who's the dead husband at like some black tie event in Hong Kong and he like brought her over. But of course the idea is that like she is an exotic foreigner and everyone is a

little suspicious of her for this reason. Including Cooper. Including Cooper. She's sleeping with. She's also sleeping with the sheriff. Right. But. And Cooper's immediately like bad idea. Don't do that. But he kind of respects it though. He's kind of like, all right, Truman. And then there's Catherine Martel, the brother of Andrew Packard. The sister. I mean, sorry. Andrew Packard was her brother.

And she's married to Jack Nance, Pete Martel, who we love. Who discovers the body. Yeah. But he's mostly just there to be Jack Nance. Right. Right. Be a silly guy. No, what were you going to say? She's sleeping with. He's mostly just there to be Jack Bidance. Right. Right. Be a silly guy.

But, no, where are you going to say he's sleeping with? And she is sleeping with Ben Horn, who played by Richard Boehmer, who is the head of the, you know, the hotel. Right. The quiet mogul. And general, right, exactly, business interests. Who is the most evil character in Twin Peaks, apart from like, Bob. Yeah.

I don't know if we're counting like, Bob. Amoral. Right. And who I think we just keep your eye on him, Griffin, as we go through Twin Peaks, because, like, I think the journey of Ben Horne is very interesting in that the show both does and doesn't punish him. And if you, like, write down everything that Ben Horne did and is involved with, you're like,

this man is, like, a monster. Oh, I'm hating him already. Right. And I think Namor is so good. Which is so funny, because he, you're like, this man is like a monster. Oh, I'm hating him already. Right, and I think Namer is so good, which is so funny, because he's a total stiff in West Side Story, just the only other thing I know him in. Same. He's the lead of West Side Story, obviously.

And your takeaway is like- He's Tony? Yeah, he's Tony. He's Tony. Isn't that crazy? He makes so little of an impact in that movie. I mean, he looks, he's a handsome guy. That's about all you can say, right?

He's like a total zero. That part is cursed. It is a cursed role. I mean, that is, yes, I think that's true. And he's so good in this because he kind of underplays the slime mix. I'd agree, yeah. Like, he could be more arch-villainous in a way.

And like, Piper Laurie is actually the closest thing the show has to like a classic soap opera villain. Yes. he could be more arch-villainous in a way. And like Piper Laurie is actually the closest thing the show has to like a classic soap opera villain. You're kind of rooting for her. She's kind of delicious. She seems kind of evil. Let's unpack this a little bit. It feels like this town used to be a sort of company town

centered around the mill, right? And that slowly but surely Horn has been building all these other businesses around it. He's got this kind of land empire and then he has the secret empire of like prostitution and drug running. There's both. He has his fingers in like four or five front facing businesses.

Quietly, he owns all the sort of like hub businesses of the town. The mill is still seemingly sort of thought of as like the financial core of the town, even if it's maybe not the main financial driver. And it's possibly being poorly run by Josie is sort of the, you know. Well, Josie now owns it, but Catherine is still basically running it. She basically seems to function as like the manager from day to day, which I think causes her the additional frustration that like, that's, it seems like that was probably the relationship between her and her brother that she did the day to day and he ostensibly controlled

the purse strings because he was the male. Right. And that was their inheritance. And now she's like still stuck in this position with this wife that she never really trusted that she thinks is... Sister-in-law's technically, right. Yeah.

That she doesn't like. Yeah. And then she's sleeping with the guy who's actually kind of controlling all of the financial levers in the town. But the mill is this kind of contested. It's like, capture the flag. This is the castle. Yeah. Yes. Horn covets it.

Josie won't give it up. Burn it down. Yes. What do you guys think of Catherine Martel, played by Piper Laurie, who is so crucial in season one, and then exists in season two and does wild stuff, but it's... It's one of the best examples of the show

kind of not knowing how to keep wheels spinning. Kind of like, what should we do with the mill in the town now? Once again, there's so many characters right now. She's kind of doing a riff on almost like her Carrie. Like Stephen King's Carrie. I think he loves casting people who come with baggage in a positive way, right? Teen baggage.

Absolutely. Well, it's a lot of child stars. It's a lot of children of movie stars. It's a lot of people like... Associated with teen movies too. Right. But like Richard Bammer, Piper Laurie, fucking Peggy Lipton to a degree. You're watching all of them thinking about what they had done decades earlier.

You have people like Miguel Freire who are coming in who are like children of stars, you know? But yes, I think... I mean, Peggy Lipton, I think had not done anything since like the 60s. Yeah, she had retired to raise her kids. I guess the early 70s is when the Mod Squad ends basically. And she did a Mod Squad TV movie in 79. But like, she truly had retired. Lynch is basically plucking her out of our memories and putting her back to us.

Piper Laurie feels more relevant than all these people because Carrie had at least been a comeback that happened in between the two eras of her career. And that's why I do feel like, that's why she gets... She's great. I love her. She's hilarious and she's very... But like, that's why she gets she's great. I love her. She's hilarious. And she's very but like that's why she's getting Oscar and Golden Globe. Not I mean, Emmy. Sorry.

Yeah. Like, you know, because she's the big one of the big names. I love when she catches Shelley tied up in the mill and she goes, hmm, let me think. Like she has a really great delivery of just like not not going to untie you just yet. I'm right. I'm gaming this out. It's just like such pure wickedness. And also, like, in a show where the murder doesn't happen, she would be the central character, right? Like, she's like the J.R.

Or the villain. Yeah, the J.R. Exactly. Right. She'd be the person everything revolves. Antagonist, protagonist, or whatever. And she pushes a lot of action. Yes. And she does do that in the show, sort of. But it is funny watching the show, kind of like watching early X-Files or whatever,

and these other shows, like pre, I do think Buffy and stuff like that in the later 90s, start to invent what we think of as like modern TV storytelling. We're just like, you got your big arc, you got your mini arcs, you got your episode arcs. But all these shows we're talking about, we're kind of pulling from Twin Peaks and going like, okay, what did they do right and what did they do wrong?

Thinking, how do we build this in a way that is sustainable? Because Twin Peaks is like, right, let's just roll lots of snowballs down the hill. Some of them will collide. Others won't at all. Right. Some storylines will carry through, some storylines will kind of abandon or shape-shift away. You know, it's like you're seeing prototypes of what I'm talking about.

It's funny that like even within the same decade, I don't know if it's five or six years later, Joe Dante does Yuri, Indiana, which is the children's TV show. That was great, but was also sort of like, can we do Twin Peaks for kids? It feels like it's overtly that. And even that is like, we know how to keep this on rails. And then Lost is like, we're gonna keep it on rails. No, we aren't. We're just gonna do all the same stuff again. I mean, Lost is kind of the most fascinating mirror of this thing, except they kept it on for seven or eight years.

But the cultural relationship to it was so similar. But Lost is also, if you read the pitch for Lost, and like what they're, you know, they basically lied. And they were basically like, no, it they're, you know, they basically lied. And they were basically like, no, it won't be a mystery show, we promise. It's going to be because we can do the flashbacks. It can be a cop show and it can be a lawyer show and it can be, you know, can do all this stuff through the flashbacks.

And it's like, no, pretty quickly, it's just going to turn into what's going on with the island. Like that will be such an overriding din. It was also like, wasn't the president of ABC at the time was like, survivor's a big hit. We should do scripted survivor. Yeah. I think that is like, yes. To JJ.

No, first he went to someone else who has a credit on every episode of Lost, God bless him. He has nothing to do with the show. He wrote a different, like stranded on an island plot. And they threw it out, Jeffrey Lieber. Anyway. And then I think JJ was the one who- And then JJ takes over and JJ brings in Linzoloff.

And was like, could we put 10% of Twin Peaks on top of the Lost on an Island thing? Right, exactly. It's weird that he's the researcher for the show. It is weird. I think JJ just likes to work, and that's why he's moved over to our show. He's this huge development deal with HBO Max

and nothing's gotten made out of it. Crazy. So even though he's gotten like $400 million, he just needs something to do with his time. He's just bored. But I have some bad news for him. He's going to have even more something to do with his time. He's just bored Yeah, but I have some bad news for him. He's gonna have even more things to do with the time because he's fired No, it's just Thank you for doing a twin peaks dossier JJ. Yeah, there was another person

I was thinking of like that while I was watching this I was just thinking about we're like this is so thought of as like The David Lynch show right and then people who go like one step below that understand that Mark Frost is the important co-author Very important of this thing but so often in these cases where it's like you bring a person from movies Into create a show then they just fucking bounce and people get associated with these things But it's like all they did was set the table and then leave. And even JJ, who uses Lost as sort of the springboard to his movie career, it's like he still gets so much credit for that show, but all he did was the play setting. And directed the pilot incredibly well.

You know, but people still, when that show was like in its final seasons, people would be like, oh, JJ, what's he thinking? You know, and he was sort of personified in this way versus like even the drifting involvement that Frost and Lynch had in season two is more than JJ ever had post episode one of Lost. Yeah. No, read the Mo Ryan book.

He's not even mentioned in that chapter. JJ had nothing to do with Lost basically. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would occasionally even mentioned in that chapter. JJ had nothing to do with loss, basically. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would occasionally, um... swoop in to direct an episode for Funsies or whatever, but yeah. Did he direct other episodes? JJ, yeah, he did. Uh, I can even look it up.

Do you want me to look it up? Yeah. Look it up, Davey. How many, uh, like, overall-ish episodes did Lynch direct of the series? Because David was thinking that Lynch only did one or two in season two, and did far more than that. So David Lynch directs the pilot. Yeah, he directs episode three Then or the skill to catch a killer, which is the episode with the dream Yeah with the bottom rocks of bottles and all that frost does the finale frost directed the family

That was the only oversights he directed of season one season two. He directs May the giant be with you the only episode he directed of season one. In season two he directs, May the Giant Be With You, the first episode back, which is another- Another feature length 90, that's a 90 minute episode. It might, yeah. I just watched it. I forget if it's, right, if it's broken into two here.

It was a 90 minute episode in two hours. Again, it's like the ones he directed, you're like, oh, of course he directed this. He directed six. All the imagery I remember is from this. And he directs the episode after that. Or that's what I'm trying to see, Griffin. He does the reveal episode, right?

And then he goes away, he comes back to do Lonely Souls, which is not the reveal episode. No, which is... I think that is. Six. Six. You keep saying six. I think it's episode six.

No, it's episode seven. Seven? It's also tough to track, because they, in season two, still keep calling them like chapter 14. So you're like... He directs, right, Lonely Souls. It's the episode where I would say the killer is revealed, I don't want to spoil, where

a terrible thing happens. But it's not the episode where the killer is caught and confesses. I'm thinking of the lonely souls. It is happening again, another Lynch thing. And then he directs the finale, Beyond Life and Death, which is amazing. But at that point, it's kind of crazy because he's really been gone from the show for,

he's sort of part of the show, well, he famously basically threw the script out. That show is mostly, not mostly, but much more set in the Black Lodge and stuff, and has lots of David Lynch stuff in it. And it's very clear that he's kind of just like, let me at least end this show on my terms, if nothing else. But that's it. Can I say something?

Yeah. Six. Six. I was getting jealous of Eva saying it seemed like a lot of fun. Six. Six. Sorry, six. I just watched it again. I watched the The Souls one again like two days ago. Right. Abrams directed the pilot of Lost. Abrams, come on. Show me Abrams. Look it up, David. And he directed, maybe that's it actually.

Well, see. He wrote other episodes. But I, that was kind of... For some reason I thought he directed one more episode since. Anyway, Ben, what's up? How about we talk about the police force? Oh yes, we didn't hit the cops. Talk about some of those characters.

Because we got Andy. Sweet Andy. Yes. We've got... Hawk. Hawk. One of my favorite characters. Who is We've got... Hawk. Hawk. One of my favorite characters. Yeah. Who is...

I'll say it. Yeah. So hot. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. And what about... The tracker thing, you know, it has an age well. Yeah.

But what about... But it is what it is. What's your name in The Office? I was going to say my favorite character. She's the best. Unsurprisingly. I was going to say... Lucy. Lucy. gonna say, my favorite character. She's the best. Unsurprisingly. I was gonna say. Lucy.

Lucy. Kind of not my favorite character. Do you know what happens with them in season three? Do you know a thing about them in The Return? Oh. No? I just put it together, yeah. I'm so excited for you to see the thing.

There ain't it. I mean, there aren't big part of it. That's my favorite thing in The Return, possibly. I think it's a lot of people's favorite thing in The Return. You're gonna love it, Grav. There's just one scene about them that you will love. Okay, great.

Objectively perfect. Andy, basically you have like Harry Truman, straight arrow sheriff, you've got Hawk, his loyal kind of side, deputy whatever, who knows the woods and knows about the spirits and all that, sure. And then you have Andy who is- Disney's goofy. Right, bad at everything, but he just...

His hair is crazy. ...goofy as how to cop. Well, he's got, like, it is one of the weirdest... He's a sweet boy. And he cries. ...balding patterns I've ever seen. Where he's got, like, a bouffant, and he's going bald around it.

It's not like his hairline is good. In season three. It's not like he just has a bald patch in the back. It's like he's got the horseshoe and a bouffant and then a ring of baldness directly around the thumb. In return, it's the same. Yeah, incredible. And I assume they're styling his hair that way,

but it's crazy that his hair looks like that. It's so funny. But he's literally like stepping in fucking paint cans and breaks and shit. No, my husband walked in while I was watching and he's just like, what other show would just have all this going on and then these two dipshits, like Lucy and Andy,

just total freaks. Isn't that a perfect example of well that's funny but we can't do that? That won't match with the this is a dark murder mystery. There shouldn't be someone like, yeah, crying at the sight of anything and shooting his gun and then get out.

But the saddest thing I keep coming back to, which is the weird degree of crossover success that Lynch had for being such a bizarre artist, I think the key to that is that he's funny. Yeah. That comedy transcends shit. People, if they're laughing, won't really get too hung up on what they understand or not.

Yeah, and it's not funny in spite of itself. It's just funny. It's just funny. So in The Return, they both have a vague... The thing with Andy, especially, and Lucy, do they ever help directly? Does Andy ever get anything done? He shoots the French bartender. There's sometimes where it'll kind of happen almost by mistake

that he does something good. I saw one of the season two episodes of Jump Ahead, he steps on a loose floorboard that hits him in the face and underneath it they find a clue. And it reveals something, that's sort of right. Andy, it's like, it feels like Dale's opinion would be kind of like, he's crucial to the alchemy of what you guys do, even if it doesn't seem like he does anything helpful, right? Like, that's what Andy's there for.

Right, where he's Officer Mr. Bean. Yes. Lucy does, like, hear a clock and identify it at one point. That's the only thing she does that's not a problem. Lucy also feels like a sort of magic force field around them. Yes. Of, like, if someone tried to bother them, they'd have to get through Lucy first,

who is impenetrable. Yes. So, like, in a way, she's Lucy first, who is impenetrable. Yeah. So like in a way she's good, by being kind of bad at her job. Yes. Or whatever, by being whatever she is at her job. She's sort of crucial to, again, to the process. But I also love the coach a guy to tell him

how to tell a woman how he feels trope. Yeah. Of them just trying to push him towards her the whole season. Can I just say also that it is crazy that in the Saturday Night Live parody, that Victoria Jackson played Audrey and not Lucy, who is a twin to her. Did you watch the sketch, David?

Ben, have you seen this sketch? I mean, how many women were on SNL that year? There's not a lot. The two things that are really famous in the sketch beyond just like, oh, it's the first big parody of Twin Peaks, right? It's Farley's first sketch. She comes on as Audrey.

She does a variation of the tying the cherry stem into a knot thing. Where she puts a ribbon in her mouth and pulls out one of those perfect curly ones that you put on top of a package. It's great. It gets an applause break, right? And then, whatchamacallit, Jan Hooks comes on as Nadine. And then she leaves and Cooper says something about like, I wonder if we'll see the log lady and Truman is played by, well, this is the other thing.

Kevin Nealon. Kevin Nealon plays Truman and he goes, I don't think we'll see her mainly because we only have two women in the cast and they both already appeared. It's Victoria Jackson and Jan Hooks. And then Jan Hooks comes back on out of breath as the log lady. All right. Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's a good joke. But it's also crazy to think about season 15 of SNL

having two women. They panic added Julia Sweeney midseason. That's their third woman. And then Nora Dunn comes shortly after. He's so nuts that, yeah, that it was kind of like, you know, women on SNL, like, we'll allow for it, but they'll be a couple. Because within two years of that,

they actually have a good, like... Yeah, we're getting close to, right, the sort of Molly Shannon. Ellen Clyde Horn's coming in. You had, like, a good bench for Melanie Hutzle and whatever. At this moment, they're freaking out about only having two women to portray the entire female cast of 20. Melanie Hutzle and whatever. At this moment, they're freaking out about only having two women to portray the entire female cast of 20 years. Melanie Hutzle.

I haven't thought about her in a minute. Call it Melanie Hutzle. Melanie Hutzle. Melanie Hutzle. Thank you. Melanie Hutzle. Six. Six.

Six. Melanie Hutzle was kind of like a less annoying Victoria Jackson in a way, right? At least less cue-filled. Hutzle was goofier. Right. I mean, like, Victoria Jackson, beyond the turn her life took later, she's kind of one-none annoying as a comedic actress. She can be funny, but it's a slim range.

She's got a ton of moves. Yes. I'm trying to be nice. Well said. She has a few moves. Ellen Clegghorne was funny. I feel like Ellen Clegghorne got a bad rap. Ellen Clegghorne fun. I feel like Ellen Cleghorn got a bad rap. Ellen Cleghorn, I feel like every 18 months there is another wind of like, why didn't

Ellen Cleghorn have a better career? Yeah, why didn't that happen? Right. And it's like, whatever, systemic racism. She was great. Anyway, should we do more on the SNL Twin Peaks sketch though? I feel like we got more blood out of that song. This was the other thing I wanted to say.

I knew we got something. Thank you. Phil Hartman plays Leland Palmer. He plays Ray Wise. He does an incredible impression. He's great. And the audience is like exploding. Unsurprisingly.

Right. Like, Hartman is made for that. Yes. The audience is exploding and you feel them like laughing at the energy of like, finally someone's acknowledging how weird this performance is. Yeah. And can we just say real quick how weird this performance is. Yeah. And can we just say real quick how fucking great he is. He's my favorite performance in Twimpy.

I agree. Beyond Cooper or above Cooper. Cooper it's tough because it's like right you're talking about like it's like. I think it's the most bravura performance. On a technical level. Scene to scene. I don't know how he did that. That's my thing. He's like the perverse performance. Yeah. On a technical level. Scene to scene. And it's like shortening. I don't know how he did that. That's my thing. He's like the perfect Lynch actor.

It's kind of crazy they didn't work together in any movies. Well, he's in Fire Walk with me. Of course. Well, I'm saying he's only within the Twin Peaks universe. I believe so. For Lynch, yes, I think so. Possibly just because he is honestly such a profound presence as Leland. How could you? It might be distracting, right? You know, in a way. Yeah, but anyway, carry on.

Herman is doing the dance and he's doing the bulging eyes and the crying and the laughing and all this stuff and sort of playing the mania of it in the big swings, which he does really well. And the audience seems to be laughing out of recognition of like, yeah, that guy is insane, right? This is the weirdest performance we've ever seen. Now, without spoiling anything for listeners,

the things that have been spoiled for me culturally I'm watching this show and I'm like this performance makes more sense to me knowing some of where this character's going, right? Yes, yes the time where people just like this is just nuts shit Well, this is just a guy doing like Nick Cage moves constantly wall-to-wall It's the thing I have long bumped up against. I had a big argument, it's not the word, conversation with my brother about this recently. Okay, the great J.R. Simpson.

I don't know how to talk about this without talking about the future storylines in Twin Peaks. Sure. But Leland is just, I guess. Part of it, oh, to weird grief is, right. I guess the way to grapple with how he's behaving is, sure, yes, grief. Grief is what's powering this. But that audience is recognizing that, like,

this performance is something weirder than that. What's with the guy who basically every time you see him is like, ha ha ha, ha, how's everyone doing? Shall we dance? You know, and then just starts, like, singing an old song and crying, and everyone's like, oh, okay, Henry, what? Listen, his wife is also, she's pretty unhinged. She's amazing. It's a weird family.

Yeah. Look, and it's just... The miracle of Ray Wise is that he knows how to somehow, dare I say it, ground all of those moments. He does. No, he absolutely does. It is what's incredible where you're like, and to know that he did not know the grand narrative plan from the beginning, that Lynch only told him shortly before they shot the

season two episodes, that he's just being given whatever on paper and going like, okay, I'll make it work. He doesn't have the pieces to justify it. Okay, the dancing when he's crying and they're trying to hide it from the Icelandic investors. And so what's her name? Piper Laurie. Is like kind of, they're all kind of doing like a improv

mirroring kind of like exercise. This is the thing we do. It's so funny and sad and just is a great, I think a capsulation of like this series and what it's doing. It's like all of these things happening at once. Can I give a quick Ray Wise anecdote that's not the one you think I'm gonna say, David?

Well, I love the one that I would think you were gonna say. Five time at Club Story shout out to PTR. I sat next to Ray Wise at the Saturn Awards and I accidentally spilled an entire glass of wine on him. Aw. On his lap. And he didn't erase you with X-ray vision or whatever. He gave me absolute Leland Palmer,

maniacal smiling face and went, that's all right, my boy. As he was like dabbing off his lap. That's sweet. And I truly, he was like, it's all right, it happens to all of us. Aw. And you should apologize. I apologized profusely. I don't think, I think I would like turn into a marble or off the mountain of smoke. Say you're sorry again right now. Ray Wise? I'm sorry. I'm wiser now than I was back then. I was also 20 and I had been invited as like a plus one seat filler to the Saturn

Awards and I was like, open bar? I can't drink anywhere. Was he nominated for Reaper? I bet he must have been. I remember him presenting an award and doing a whole speech about like, finally. I, or no, it was the opposite. I think it was like, for some reason they've cast me as the devil on a TV show. I don't know why. His only Saturn nom is for Fire Walk with me. Interestingly enough. So he was also presenter. Yeah, he was just...

What a wonderful performance. And of course he lost to Robin Williams for Aladdin, normal. What? He's so good in Good Night and Good Luck. He's my favorite performance in the movie. And he's great in Robocop. No, I mean, he's always good. Always good. He's my favorite. Yes, I agree with that movie and he's great in RoboCop No, he's always good always good like the end I was gonna share. He's a very reliable guy. Yes. Connor Twin Peaks fanatic always has been trying to book Twin Peaks people on George Lucas talk show

I'd say half of George Lucas talk shows continued existence It's just Connor creating a structure that allows him to send asks out to Lynch collaborators But the worst structure the structure where his ask has to, so I'm going to be in character as George Lucas. And they're like, huh? I didn't do a Star Wars. The funniest thing is, whenever we get a Lynch person, the 10% that he still will do the Lucas character disappears.

And he just starts asking questions that only Connor would ask. He can't even frame them from the perspective of George Lucas anymore. That's so funny. Early on in the show when we do it at the UCB and we had an inconsistent crowd, he was like, I want to do a show George Lucas anymore. And that's so funny. Early on in the show when we do it at the UCB and we had an inconsistent crowd, he was like, I want to do a show called Lucas Lynch.

That's all about the weird parallels between Lucas and Lynch and them almost doing Return of the Jedi together. We couldn't book anyone on it. It was like the worst show we'd ever done. And then we're in deep pandemic marathons and he was like, I want to do Lucas Lynch again. And we did it and it was good. We had like Dana Ashbrook on.

We had Kimmy Robertson. We had maybe the last interview Angela Bellamante ever did. Whoa. We had a lot of people. When you hear that, you're kind of like, hmm, wow. Should we keep this going? Do you want that on the Wikipedia? Of course, in like Conor's like, you know, A to three brain,

he was like, we'll build this around a marathon of on the air. We're not watching Twin Peaks. We're watching on the air. That's like dough we'll build this around a marathon of on the air. We're not watching 20. That's like doughboys doing McDonald's or whatever. Anyway, anyway. Get out of the pandemic and we're starting to do live shows again and we're going to LA. It's the first time we've done LA and fucking forever. And it's like, who are the big ass and Connors like Ray wise get Ray wise. We booked Ray wise on the show. We're backstage and Patrick producer producer, booker, has been going back and forth with Ray Wise's people

and staying in touch. And it's like five minutes until the show. And Patrick texts the manager and says, hey, do you have any ETA on Ray? He's not here. And the manager's like, that's weird. I checked in with him an hour ago and he said he was driving over.

Oh no. And we're like Oh, no. And we're like, oh, no. We're like, getting Ray to just do the show and I guess Ray's not here. I guess we're doing the show with one guest. I think we had Darcy Carden, so it was great without, or it was, no, it was Amy Mann solo without Ray Wise. Okay, so still great. The show ruled, right?

But as we're going on stage, Connor's like, we're going to walk off stage and read a terrible headline about Ray Wise. We're going to find out that Ray Wise got in a car crash on the way to the show. And it's going to haunt us forever. What an awful thing to say. Absolutely. Well, Connor loves saying the worst thing like that. Like when the pandemic started and he said, why fuck? Why am I forgetting? Griffin, carry on. What happened to Ray Wise?

And Patrick's like, his manager said he'd get right back To me we get off stage. We don't see a headline. We're like weird Never heard from them ever again. Ray wise just never showed up. He's the manager never got back. He ghosted He said he was driving over. He just saw it in and out. Yeah I kind of respect that I think Ray wise just was kind of like I'm not doing that but he was like I'm on my way Yeah, I'm not doing that. But he was like, I'm on my way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when his manager was like, hey, you never showed up to that thing, he was like, yeah, I didn't want to do it. Just never speak to them again. We can burn that bridge completely.

But was kind of perfect. It was, let's say this, he was the funniest guest to say didn't show up. He Googled a picture of you, Griffin. He flashed back to the echo-y memory. That's the white boy. It was the white boy. You never know. And it like fell in slow motion. He was like, ha! Yeah, his hair turned white again.

Yeah. Leland is, yes, just a very powerful character. Very sad, very scary, very funny. That's the Twin Peaks magic. He's all of it. The nightmare of being in Laura's house, I think Lynch especially, you can feel Lynch behind the camera. It's under the episodes that he worked on.

That image that he goes back to over and over again, he goes back to it and fire walk with me of, you know, Grace Zabriskie, what's the mom's name? Sarah. Walking down the stairs with the fan going and like the light being, you know, which is basically just, it's a portent of something terrible happening. And it's also just an ordinary thing. It's a kid being put to bed, right? And the way Lynch can make that mundane thing so scary

and make being in that house so scary, which is just a sad house, like, cause Laura's dead. So it's just, you know, Sarah being scary and crazy, screaming, seeing things, Grace Hrabowski can scream. Like Grace Hrabowski says, like, she'd do like 17 takes of screaming and like David Lynch would be like, do you have one more?

And Grace is like, I'm all the way up. And David would be like, I think you can go higher. I think you can go crazier. And she says he would be right. He would get it out of me. That's crazy. And then Leland Wright, just this dancing on the edge of whatever, weird insanity and sadness.

And it's the stuff that makes my skin crawl the most, which I think is like cool. I was listening to Oz Perkins on Big Picture, what will now be a very old interview related to the run up to long legs. And the term he kept using was like what he tries to do in horror and what he finds effective in horror movies is when you're somehow able to touch the membrane.

Love that. And obviously, Perkins is very obviously inspired by things like Trumpet. Yes, no, but I feel like that's the Lynch thing. Of like the stickiness of these things where you're like, why does that performance get to me? That image, that line, that piece of music. Lynch just is able to identify these things that like touch the membrane. And sometimes they are accidental,

they're discovered, they're found art that's, hey, you the set dresser, you're now a character. Sometimes it's someone like Ray Wise who he can perfectly direct to like capture that in every line reading. But it is the other acts factor for me on top of his work being funny that cuts through from a lot of more abstract sort of work that a lot of audiences would be immediately allergic

to. Like it makes you, it's funny and also makes you sick. It makes me physically sick sometimes to watch this. But it's, in both cases, what are we talking about? Physiological responses that are not, that are uncontrollable, right? If you're watching just some like, and this is when audiences turn on him in the back half of the 90s and people are like Lynch has gone too far up his own butt, that's when they're like, this is just weird shit and I can't find any grounding in it. But for a while, this first run,

he was able to make these things that were making people laugh and were giving people a pit in their stomach. And they're like, undeniably, I feel something when I watch this, even if I don't understand it. I love that. Yeah, it rules. The Hayward family. Comparatively. Right, Donna's family.

So normal and nice. Lovely Dr. Hayward. Their house seems warm and... That's family. So normal and nice. Lovely Dr. Heyward. Their house seems warm and... That's true. I think Laura Flumble is incredibly good on this. She's so good. She's great. And she's one of those people where just like,

over the next 15 years, she became so big as a figure and a name as an idea. She also became a bit of a David Lynch character. Like, you know, where she plays these bombshells, like on the practice and like, you know, in she plays these bombshells, like, on the practice and like, you know, in movies and stuff, which she's not really here. No. She's kind of the sweetest character.

She's the ultimate innocent in a lot of ways. But like, I, anytime I watch her and like, I didn't have this experience watching Men in Black 2, right, where she's fine. But you watch this and you're like, oh, right, she was a really good actor. That's why this all started. Yeah. She's amazing on Twin Peaks. And it's the kind of part that in theory

should be harder to play because she's less internally complicated than almost all the other characters. She is the real Nancy Drew. Like she and then Maddie when Cheryl Lee shows up as Maddie, the cousin of Laura Palmer who looks exactly like her with different hair. Like they start to do the real Nancy Drew thing of like, well, let's crack it.

Like we'll figure it out. And Audrey too. And Audrey. But Audrey kind of hates them. I feel like Audrey's like, fuck you guys. I've done my own investigation. She's also kind of like, I'm going over the border, baby.

I'm gonna maybe sleep with my dad. It's gonna be normal. We'll try it. She's kind of the emotional linchpin in terms of being the one person who's kind of processing this normally not to say there's a normal way to grieve yeah but everyone else's response is so kind of bizarre and inscrutable and a little bit terrifying and she's just constantly bringing it back to like she was my best friend and she died. I think Ben is right though. This is a human being. It's that she's in a more normal home.

Yes. And she's not say like married to Leo or whatever. You know, like, and that like her boyfriend is James, boyfriend, pseudo boyfriend, who's also nice, protective, not too wild. They do seem like the only characters who could possibly leave Twin Peaks. Right, and not like be crazy people.

Like burst into flames at the border. Yeah. But it's a lovely performance. I'm trying to think, you know, what else? I think we should just... Jacoby. Oh. Well, I can't talk about him, but he's my therapist. So I have a doctor-patient thing with him.

I send him tapes. And he listens to them while he sits in his tiki room. Are they horny? Yeah, they're a little horny. They're horny on request when he asks for a horny one. Sometimes he wants them. Yes. David, can I just say, he's doing great work.

He's really settling it all down. No notes. Yes, it's quick. David, can I just say he's doing great work. He's really settling it all down. No notes. Yes, it's revealed that Laura's therapist, psychiatrist, is a guy who wears red, blue, 3D sort of, you know, framed glasses. Has kind of a tiki Hawaiian vibe to his life. Yep is played by the great Russ Tamblyn Obviously also in West Side Story. Yeah, and like a Fucking the haunting. Yes. Yes. He's right. He's got a great face. He's great And he's a guy touches a lot of different like Westerns and yeah in movies and movie musicals and a real a real guy

But it makes sense Lynch met him at a Dennis Hopper thrown party and was like, why haven't we worked together? Well, that's the other thing. He was like, much like Hopper, this guy who was sort of like a studio system, young character actor, who then became the sort of odd countercultural figure in the Hollywood Hills. With crazy energy.

Do you guys know what Jacoby does in season three in The Return? No. I'll just tell you that he has a podcast. Oh, good. Hell yeah. And that's not really explaining much, but he'd be getting online in season three. Ben got excited about that, and I'm getting competitive.

Oh, you're like, we got to shut him out, box him out of the market? Yeah. Jacoby, I feel like, like Leo especially, and somewhat Ben Horn, is one of the most obvious like red herring characters in a way, where it's like, he just seems like someone who killed Laura Palmer.

He's like, I was her therapist, and I had a bit of a crush on her, and I'm insane, and I dress in a weird way, and I'm very unprofessional. And my house has sound effects. And Dale is like, hmm, I don't think this guy did it. You know, I had another dream the other day. Let's go somewhere else. He's too weird.

That's the thing, right? He's almost too weird. But he's a great presence. Ben, Jacoby, are you into him? He's so fun. The detail that he saved the umbrellas over the years. The box of umbrellas. Of different tiki drinks he's had and then labeled where, the year, who he was with.

Cocktail umbrellas, to be clear. Oh, yes. Cocktail umbrellas. But that is, I don't know, he's great. Yeah, I love how odd he is. Never explained why he has those glasses. Is it weird to say that he's almost the only character in the show to me who feels like specifically out of the 90s? Sure, whereas everyone else is sort of like one foot in the 50s one foot in the 90s There's something about his like idolization of almost 50s culture, right? He does have that is from a modern perspective. Sure. I

Think he's kind of it's like, you know the land of one-eyed one-eyed men The land of black men when a man is king like he's the most normal you know the land of one-eyed men, the land of blind men when a man is king like he's the most normal. Well also in the land of one-eyed jacks. That's true. Right like it's like Jacobi is the only one who's like this town is crazy. I'm crazy because this town like I live here because it's filled with craziness. I guess this is my place. Everyone else is like we're normal. What do you mean? We run a restaurant or a steel mill. He's the one character who could be on like a 90s NBC sitcom. Yes.

Without change. Hey, doctor. Right. He could be... The good doctor. Right. He could be... Why don't you put this tape in a coconut?

He could be Chandler's therapist. Yeah. And you'd be like, yeah, of course. Like, that's the weirdness of him, as you said, is that makes him sort of more normal. I'm seeing here he was Chandler's therapist and he asked him if he could be any more crazy. Oh, wow. That set him on a really bad path. David's laughing very hard. My own stupid, terrible joke.

Yay. Uh, okay. Uh, do enjoy Jacoby. Um, yeah, okay. What happens in season one that we're not talking about? Like... The Miner bird gets shot. You really feel for the Miner Bird gets shot. You really feel for the Miner Bird? It's just a fun episode to be like, we gotta feed this Miner Bird till it gets happy again

and someone kills it. And until it repeats something. Jacques Renaud, the kind of obscene bartender at One Eye Jacks. I think a great performance. A really good performance. He's really good. Yeah. Who has a Miner Bird that yells, Leo, no, this is true.

Leo, no! Leo, no! Season one of Twin Peaks. I'm just trying to make sure, like, you know, there's things in season one we need to touch on before we get to season two. Laura has an R under her fingernail, sure. That's the only censorship note they got from standards on the show was that the shot of the letter

being found under the fingernail was too explicit, so they had to use a different piece of coverage. Interesting, it is kind of a nasty notion. Yes. Yeah. And in Fire Walk with Me, you see like the nail being lifted, which is always kind of grotesque, you know. I mean, have we talked enough about Bob and Mike? I think so.

They live together above a convenience store. They sure do. Like we don't see much of them, but we do see them in the dream episode, Bob give the Fire Walk with me monologue. I mean, Mike gives that monologue and Bob giving the like death bag monologue and all that. But these are just, like grappling with it out of context

or out of like without the full context of the show. It is hard to wonder what audiences make of that. Like, I mean, it does feel like... Where they're like, I think Ben Horn did it and Lynch is like, maybe he did. Did you see this scene where a weird spirit just monologued at the camera? But that's what's so wild about this show briefly being so successful where all of these things

made audiences lean in. Yeah. Like the less they understood, the more they became engaged with it. It's like not to do future episode, but it's like the guy coming out from behind the dumpster. It's like then you forget about that for two hours, but it is like, it sets your brain on a certain mode. Well, I just always think about like the lost fucking four-toed statue thing. Yeah. Right? Where you were like, that was this moment that for me is a perfect encapsulation of the entire

dynamic and the conflict about that show existing as a cultural object that we were in conversation with, where you're like, this is season four, and now there's an image that's being introduced that is so outside of any of the weird shit that we've already been trying to solve. I think it was the finale of season three, but yes. And you're like, we're adding a new thing? And the characters literally point at it and go,

four-toed statue, that's weird. And you're just jotting it down in your brain where you're like, I'm adding that to the list. I need to know what this is now. My favorite thing about the four-toed statue. And then there's never anything. Well, this is right where it's like, it's such a great moment in that episode. Say they're like, wow, that's a big foot.

The foot is so big, the statue must have been colossal. And Sayid's like, yeah, the other weird thing about it is that it has four toes. And fans are like, four toes. Four toes, four toes, four toes, four toes. You know, and they've got the charts going. And people are like, do I move the smoke monster down? Do I de-prioritize trying to crack that one? Because the four toes is now the key to the whole thing.

And what is the answer? It's like, there was a big statue built there a long time ago by Egyptian type settlers or whatever. That's it. And they admit. It's cool because it's weird. They also admit that that's the point in the show where they're like, we're going to be treading water

if we don't decide on a fixed endpoint. Otherwise, we're going to have to keep creating new mini mysteries just to string people along. And you're like, that's probably what Twin Peaks should have done. Did it want to stay on air longer? Right? Even though it ultimately pissed people off with Lost. I forgot about this.

They wrote that it was six toes, and ABC was like, that's too many toes. And Hughes and Lindelof were like, well, as long as it's not five toes, we're fine with it. And they were like, four toes it is. So actually, it was a network note for it to be four toes. Such good execs on this show being like, I just love the execs like, I need to do something.

It's like, that's just too many toes for there to be. You have nailed the exact pathology of every TV exec. Network note people. Can you just say too many toes? Too many toes. Too many toes. Too many toes. So yes, Cooper has this dream about Mike and Bob and Laura, Laura in the red room,

and sometimes her arms go back, and the little man. And he is the arm. You know, and she's given all of these, he's given all of these clues and these sort of coded dialogue. Backwards. Yes, we don't need to go through that it's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's...

It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's...

It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's...

It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... It's... As if those are actual clues. And as I said, I truly do love that, right, he devotes police resources to a dream he had, and Truman and Hawke are like, yeah, whatever. Do you want to join our crew? Our bowling league, yeah. And, you know, it all builds to this point where they do finally arrest someone, who is Jacques Renault from One-Eyed Jacks.

Who just kind of fits the profile in the true crime sort of... Like, our reality, this is the sort of guy you find who killed the young woman. Right. Yes. He's almost... It almost seems like he's openly bragging about it. Right. He has so little filter from the world of filth that he lives in. And Leland kills him in his hospital bed.

He gets shot by Hank, right? You know, like, you know, or whatever. Or does Hank shoot Leo? Hank shoots Leo. There are like three shootings that happen in the final. Yeah, Hank shoots Leo. Jacques gets shot, but then he also gets smothered to death by Leland because Leland, you know, thinks he's Laura's killer.

Maybe. Maybe not. And then Cooper is shot by an unknown gunman. Wesley Lynn thinks he's Laura's killer, maybe, maybe not. And then Cooper is shot by an unknown gunman, the revelation of that, by the way, one of the worst things Twin Peaks ever did. I'm ready. Well, they don't do a very good job, but he gets shot, mystery, and the mill burns down,

Leo burns it down, with Catherine trapped inside, Ben Horne does this, right? No, correct me. It's with She with Catherine trapped inside. Ben Horne does this, right? No, correct me. It's with Shelley's trapped inside. Shelley is, why is she? But Shelley's trapped inside because Leo's mad at Shelley. And he tied Shelley.

Because she stole his shirt. Catherine saves Shelley, but then they're still trapped inside. Then they're still trapped inside. Catherine was sent up by Ben to go. Oh yeah. And be trapped in the fire. Right.

Ben wants to sort of tie everything, because he wants the mill to burn down so he can have the land to do more stuff. He wants everyone to die in the mill. And at that point, you've basically gotten the reveal that Joan Chen was in cahoots with Hank. Yeah, who might have killed Andrew. That was my takeaway?

Correct. Right. More on that later. might have killed Andrew, you imply? That was my, yes. Take away? Correct. Right. More on that later, but certainly Josie seems, you know, suspicious as well. Josie is another like, did she do it? Sure. Character, you know.

Cooper has expressed suspicion or racism. How much do you know about this lady? Can we trust her? Sure. Little bit, yeah, she's treated like in a racist manner. But also, Cooper seems like he's got body language cues that he's making like, she might be up to no good. But Hank's whole thing, very much on game of him being the snake jailbird of Twin Peaks,

is just constantly reminding people that he was in jail, that he spent time in jail and sort of talking about the balance of like what he's owed for the time he gave up. And it feels like, yes, he is this guy who isn't the receptacle for all the sins of the town in the way that Laura was, but he's the guy who's sort of taken the hit for all of it. He's done the dirty work. Everyone seems to have this weird relationship to like, did he do something? Does he hold some secret for them? Is there repayment he's owed? Right?

Yeah. I don't know. It's a lot of soapy stuff that we there. We'll deal with it later. One thing too, the soap opera within the show. Well, yes. Which is so fun as just a little through line throughout. I believe Lynch did not appreciate. Huh. And like that's why it's less notable in season two. They kind of do less of it.

It's a very fun invitation to love, which is a great title. Yeah. And there was a plan, I think, in season two to do a crossover with Invitational Love. Like the cast visits the town or something like that Yeah, and Lynch was like now enough like I don't like that But it was more of a Mark Frost thing and he filmed it all with like his friends essentially. I like it, too I also just like

That I like shows within show. I like internal mythologies like that that are funny I feel like there's a moment at the end of episode eight. That's something that Sam Lake, the guy who did Alan Wake and Max Payne and stuff, he loves to do that. Have little internal, like, shows running on televisions while you're walking. Anyway, Karen. I forget who it is, but there's some scene where one character, the show is playing, and they look over to the TV and they recognize that their life is mirroring the show. It's, um... Is it...

What's his name, Leo. Yes. He gets shot and is dying. Right, right. The bad boy on the show is also dying. I just like that it's an unspoken moment, but it's like almost this character in his face being like, oh, this town has sort of become

like a soap opera. All this crazy shit's happening all the time. Yeah. Now, for ratings game, I'm trying to look up the best way's happening all the time. Yeah. Now, for ratings game, I'm trying to look up the best way to do this, Griffin. I have the ratings of the week. Yeah. I think that's the best way to do it.

For the premiere? Yeah. For the premiere. That seems like the best way to do it. Because the season is less interesting because Twin Peaks was not really a top 30 show. Is there anything else you want to say before we get to the Reigns game? I think, I think, I think Piper Laurie did it. Get her.

Okay. You want to put money on her? Um, you know what? I mean, I feel like I've said this. I watched the show for the first time in college on my TV. Like I said, I bought the DVD and the end of the first episode when Sarah starts screaming. And that's not even her seeing Bob, that's the second episode. But it's just her screaming and seeing Jacobi taking the locket

from the coconut or under the rock or wherever it is, scared me so much that I couldn't go to sleep. Like, it's that lynch thing where it's just like, her emotion is too profound or something, and it rattled me so intensely. And it comes out of nowhere. Trying to think of other things like that. Eva, are there other key locations in this show

that relate to key moments in your adolescence? Did you have, yeah, your second kiss at the Black Lodge? Not really. I mean, the river was a big thing. But other than that, no. What was the vibe of the river? It's cold. Wet. Were people swimming in it? Was it just a hangout spot? The river was a big thing. Sure. But other than that, no. What was the vibe of the river? It's cold.

What? Were people swimming in it? Was it just a hangout spot? Ben, you look like you want to say something. So because you're asking about the specific area, right? Locations. Yes. How they're significant.

There's sort of a surprise. There's sort of a surprise. locations, how they're significant. They're sort of a surprise. They're sort of a surprise. Uh-oh. Ben's taking off his headphones. So I'm going to grab something. Do you maybe want to share? Yeah.

Oh. Doon, doon, doon. Ben's doing a dance. He's putting a stool in the middle of the room. Now he's backwards dancing over. He's taking out a cardboard box. Uh oh, what's in the box? Oh, coffee. Looks like coffee.

From Tweety's, a damn fine cup of coffee. Is this the coffee we've been drinking this whole time? Whoa! Whoa! And oh my God, is it the world's shittiest pie? Wait, you didn't get this. Wow, it looks bad. I mean, no offense to it.

I had it shipped from the cafe. No wonder you reacted with like sort of a pause when we were like are the pies bad and you were like you had An odd response. Yes. I was like are we doing this already? Oh sure. I shipped the pie to Ben Oh my god, he brought it to the studio Wow And so this is the pie they ship it from tweeds cafe. So this is the actual pie by the way I was looking online. Thank you so much for this. I was looking online because I was like, oh, I should order some of the David Lynch signature cup coffee and it seems to be completely discontinued. Oh, really? I like that there's at least a

Tweety's themed Twin Peaks coffee. This I will say quite a good cup of coffee. It was a good cup of coffee. It smelled good, too. Oh, now that's why you're mad that I didn't drink the coffee, Ben. Yeah. I didn't need coffee. You can see from the distance, the pie has visible sugar covering every inch of it. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

It looks very like Entenmann's. Yes, yes. And that's not, that doesn't seem like a byproduct of it having been shipped. It just doesn't feel like this was actually made by a human being and not a robot factory line. Here, my plan was to surprise you guys with how bad it is. Okay.

But obviously the word- Is it a cherry pie? It's cherry pie. Okay. The word is out. The word is out. That the pie is bad. I had heard it.

But I'll say I didn't try a slice during that show where everyone else was talking about how shitty it was. So this will be your first time trying. This will be your first time trying it. I'll see for myself. What if I love it? That's taking a photo. I think it's entirely possible You might love it and I was like I was willing to risk that too I was like is it just my childhood associations that make me resentful of the pie or is it bad? I mean not to sack the deck. I don't like cherry. Okay, great So I'd say there are few few hills to overcome for this pie. I think the issues, the sins of the pie are not necessarily the fruit.

The cherries aren't the problem. Okay. The problem is more structural. Also, when you get this pie at the cafe, it is covered in soft serve ice cream. I can't imagine. I mean, because this is like, this is a... Thank you for prepping all this, Ben. This is a high-quality

Well designed yeah little like postcard that comes with it specifically for the gold belly Tweety's cafe pie Collaboration they must be selling so much fucking pie. I was only thinking about tourists coming to the place Yeah, but a share with you can ship out. I know This is wild. It's crazy. Yes. Yeah, Ben was, we had like a secret email chain about this. Incredible.

A baked cherry-filled legend, which special agent Dale Cooper describes on the show as this must be where pies go when they die. And no wonder you wanted to do the episode here. I was like, why is Ben fucking with the schedule day off? Today Tweedy still serves a damn fine cup o' coffee and the same damn good cherry pie agent Cooper loved a pie locals and visitors from the world over Search out and can now have ship from coast to coast through Gold Belly Okay, Ben is using what weird combination. He's using a knife and a fish spatula

And like a huge knife like a fucking crocodile dundee knife. It's so funny that Connor brought a second pie to the show. Yeah. What was he thinking? I mean, look. He's like me. He like was questioning his own judgment. Correct.

And wait, look, Connor, we will have Connor on to talk about it himself. Okay, good. Okay, I'm taking this piece right here. I'm just gonna try this piece that already fell off. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha.

I mean, he's mean, look. I don't hate it. You don't hate it? No, I don't hate it. You don't hate it? Well, the filling's really bad. I feel like the crust, my issue has always been the crust has no salt in it. Interesting.

I mean, the crust is mediocre. You're a great baker. It is very mediocre. You've won ribbons for your baking. I do, yes. I'm picky about it. Pie is my favorite dessert. It's my favorite sweet food.

Yeah. Eva, here's a question for you. It's edible. I was thinking maybe inedible. It's edible. It's edible. It's not great, but it kind of feels like a supermarket pie. Yeah. Which I realize is not good.

Like, you want higher quality. Yes, I'll say this. I think it's probably getting a slightly warmer response from David and I because it was shipped from Gold Belly. I think if I was sitting at a counter in the diner and they served this to me. Covered in soft serve ice cream, disgusting. Right, I think I'd be more put off

than this where, like, my bar of bar of expectations already low and I'm probably Giving it some generosity of like well, it probably tasted better before they shipped it. What do you think Ben? This is bad Eva when you eat it this is like bad Cherry when you eat it Is the crust firmer? Or is it always this kind of doughy? No, it's always like this. It's always covered in this gross sugar.

See, I was giving it that like... And it's like there's too much cornstarch or something in the filling, so it like dries your mouth out. It does. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's not good.

Yeah, this is like... I'm eating it though. This is like crust that is just... It feels like somehow a homemade version of like a gas station pastry. Yes. Does that make sense? It feels like it's been sitting, you know, in a fridge for two weeks, right? It's been sitting for one day. I know, I know. It feels like it. Right. We're saying it tastes 13 days more refrigerated than it actually is. So what this does to me is it calls everything about Agent Cooper's judgment into question.

If he loves this pie, then he's wrong about everything. Everything. Yeah. This is important. I'm glad you did this because it is important. We need to understand firsthand. A, he's a fuck boy. Yeah.

Problematic. He's problematic. He has no sections he's a fuck boy. Yeah. Problematic. He's problematic. He has no sex in season one. He uses words that are not allowed. And he's wrong about the pie. Yeah. Fundamentally. He does flirt with Audrey in season one. Yes. Which is not cool. But he also puts his foot down. He says Audrey, I've taken an oath. A certain kind of behavior. Yeah. Yeah. He won't do teenage sex. I think my review is the same as David which is it's not good but I'm still eating it. Yeah I know. Yeah. We've been recording for a long time. It's not inedible. That is true. Yeah. Ben, thank you. I've given up though. Yeah, of course. I lost the top part. Thank you Ben. And thank you Eva. And thank you Eva. Oh guys. Yeah and no thank you to Tweety's although I will enjoy the rest of this coffee. The coffee coffee's good was good

It smells good. It's um, if you cuz it came a whole bean. It's a nice bag and It was it's very dark roast and it's almost like resiny. It's like kind of sticky So I got I got I gotta go Hold on. Let me see. What else can we talk about? Can you want we talk about? Do you wanna talk about how resiny the coffee was again? Did you get them to ship any napkins or? Oh, come on.

I'll get you a napkin. I know, I'm joking. You literally have a stack of napkins on your- He wants napkins from the diner. I want dirty, damn desk. It's not dirty. What is it? It's full.

It's, sure. It's full of love and objects of meaning. It is? I do keep a lot of apples. It is insane how much stuff is on Griffin's desk. You can say this. It's actually crazy. When my desk is barren, it feels uncomfortable.

I'm like, what am I supposed to do with all this space? Oh, of course, I have to take a picture. So you're really comfortable right now, is what you're saying. I'm at home. That's my twin noisy cricket. Twin Peaks, we're talking basically the first weekend of April in 1990, was the highest rated movie of the season. Yes, right.

But that's kind of neither here nor there. It was basically, yeah, compared against other two-hour slots, right? Yeah. So, it earned a 33 share, which put it in fifth place for the week. And yes, the highest rated single movie, if you think of the pilot, is a feature-length thing. Basically an out-of-the-box hit. Yes. It never quite hit the... The pilot was watched by 36 million people.

Its average as a show is more in the sort of 18 to 20 million range. Obviously numbers like that now would be unheard of. Back then it was like, oh, a solid hit. But wait, let me see. Okay, so number one, Griffin. I mentioned it before. Is not Cheers? No, that is number two. LA Law? Nope, LA Law? Nope LA Law not in the top ten. You mentioned it before. Yeah as a hilarious appointment viewing it got a 22.3

Murder she wrote? Nope. Murder she wrote is nope not here Hilarious appointment. 22.3 I guess Nielsen rating. Is the number one show on television America's Funniest Home Videos? America's Funniest Home Videos. the number one show on television America's funniest home videos America's funniest the number one show on ABC I Mean when I was a kid, I thought those videos were funny I couldn't did you did any of you try to make your own videos? No, I would think like home videos, but I would not try to do You know Comical ones.

I would just hit my dad in the nuts. Oh, I was gonna say, see, I wouldn't do that, but I kept on trying to like stage funny mistakes. Yeah, that's what I'd rather go, oh! Right. And they never would have gotten past their elite screening process. Yeah.

All right, number one is America's Funniest Home Videos. Number two is Cheers, with a 21.9. Yeah. America's Funniest Home Videos still on. Number three. Well, it's true, with a 21.9. America's Funniest Home Videos is still on. Number three... What? It's true. ...is a show I just mentioned. That you just mentioned?

Yeah, one of the top two shows also was number three. What? Oh, it's... Because it aired two episodes this week. America's Funniest Home Videos is also number three. Holy shit! Is this like the first year of it airing? Sagitt? When does it start?

Sagitt. Oh, it's Sagitt. It's Sagitt. Bergeron is barely a glint in the eye of America's funniest home videos at this point. You could do The Voices. It began in 1989, so yes, this is its first season. So it truly is like, holy shit, we have found gold.

And it's like first season of Who wants to be a millionaire where they're like How many nights a week can we put this? Yes, right? How many funny home videos can we find number four at the box at the TV ratings? Is another sitcom? America's funny somebody no on NBC. Okay It's not Seinfeld yet because that's this is the dark ages for Seinfeld. Sure. It's Cosby the Cosby? The Cosby Show.

Its own sort of... Yeah, Dark Ages now. Number five is Twin Peaks. Number six is sports. It's... Do you want to guess? Sports. What kind of sports it was in April?

I'm going to guess it was Highline. It's the... I assume the final of the NCAA. College basketball. March It's the, I assume, the final of the NCAA College basketball. March Madness. March Madness, the final. Number seven is a spin-off of the Cosby show. A different world? That's right.

Wow. Number eight is a kind of, I think a show Eva probably would have vibed with. Documentary show of sorts. Unsolved mysteries? There you go. Yeah. Were you a mysteries? There you go. Yeah. Were you a fan?

A little bit. Yeah. Number nine is another sitcom on ABC. It's another sitcom this time on ABC. Was it a TGIF show? Was it Full House? No, it was not Full House. It was not a TGIF show.

This was Tuesday. This was a Tuesday? Yeah. It was ABC's biggest sitcom, it was ABC's biggest sitcom. This was ABC's biggest sitcom? Yeah, people sometimes forget this is an ABC show. It wasn't Home Improvement. It's too early for that. Eugh. People forget it was an ABC show. Was it built around a comedian?

Yes. It was, based on the comedy you're studying? Yeah. Roseanne? Yes, Roseanne. One of the most important shows of the 90s. Yeah, and at birth the greatest comedy of the 2020s. I love The Conners. Oh, you like The Conners? Yeah, you like The Conners. I thought you meant Roseanne's Twitter feed. Oh, yeah.

The Conners legitimately rules. Yeah, The Conners is good. I heard it's great. It's great. Number 10 is the only thing I don't know. It is a NBC sitcom that ran for two years. It's a comedy anthology television series? Mm-hmm. So it's kind of a love American style thing? Oh, it's not a sitcom. No, it's a variety show. Centered around a very famous person, very famous comedian. So it's the blank, blank show?

Like that, but it's like her third or whatever, you know, like a version of a variety show. It's not the Mary Scheller Moore thing, is it? No. No. Who else? Who else? Someone who was kind of like a version of a variety show. It's not the Mary Tyler Moore thing, is it? No. No. Who else? Who else? Someone who was kind of like a TV legend at this point? Yeah, she's a legend.

And the show is not called The Blank Blank Show? It's her name and company. Blank and co? She's still alive, she's 91 years old. Is it a modern Carol Burnett thing? Carol and company. Wow. Who was in the cast of Carol and Company? Well, Jeremy Piven was. Richard Kind was. Wow. And then Terry Kaiser, Anita Barone, Peter Krause. Peter Krause. Holy shit, he must have been

a baby. Handsome baby. Megan Fay. That's the crew. Wow. Yep. Carol. Had some guest stars. Betty White. Okay. Christopher Reeve. Mm-hmm. Suzy Kurtz. Mm-hmm. Tim Conway.

Mm-hmm. That's about it. Okay. Ran for two seasons. Uh, seems like it was doing pretty well in that first season, much like Twin Peaks. Sure. And then it fell off. Because they answered who solved the murder.

They solved the murder. They solved the murder. Hahaha. Hahaha. Um, that is your ratings game. The mystery of the first season was who killed Harvey Corman. Season two, Harvey Corman was like, I'm still alive! And everyone stopped watching.

I think that's enough for Twin Peaks season one. David just dramatically closed his laptop, looked at the clock, has decided it's enough. You guys are doing a fire walk... Do you want to save pie for tomorrow? Do you want to have the rest of the pie for firework? Sure. I mean, this thing will keep. It's going to, yeah. I think that would be a really-

It's got like nuclear force fields around it. Kind thing to do to our guest server. Well, our guest is also in New Orleans. Oh, you're right. Oh, so then you just have to eat it again. Or we could try and just ship it out. Or we could just throw it away. I mean, you know, there's a lot of options.

You can definitely throw it away. I mean, you know, there's a lot of options. Yeah. How about this? My landlord was actually the one to receive the package. So I'll be like, we saved you a slice. Yeah. There you go. There you go.

Yeah. And then she'll be like, thank you. Ew. All right. I got to go. David's got to go. Yes, gotta go see Deadpool and Wolverine. Got to what?

Go see Deadpool and Wolverine, not to date this episode. It's gonna be so funny! Wait, you should bring the pie with you. Wrap it up! Pie the screen! Or you know what? You know what? I could go, you guys could do 10 more minutes of pie material.

David, can I, seriously, before you go, you should stop I could go you guys can do 10 more minutes of bi-material David can I cash? Seriously before you go you should stop by a CVS and buy some medical tape. Oh cuz I might split my sides It's true, but this guy knows he's in a fucking movie It's it's horn and now he knows he's in a cinematic universe Oh, he knows people don't like the cinematic universe anymore I just hope you start wrapping Eva's there there anything you want to plug? Yeah, if it's It's it's the it's the winter. Yes. This will be September October Let me look quickly around the time that interior Chinatown will stop

Oh, yes, this will come out on September 29th. Okay in November. Okay in two months. Yes, you'll Check out interior Chinatown on Hulu. I'm very excited for the show. It sounds very cool. It's got a lot of weird meta creepy stuff too. It's in conversation definitely with the show. You're the best. You're the best. Hey, thank you for being here.

Thank you Griffin. Just to restate, just because I feel like it is a thing that people are having a hard time keeping in their brains, but Twin Peaks Season Two will be on our Patreon on the 11th of October, is that correct, Ben? Yeah, that is correct. And then we will be doing, obviously, Fire Walk with Me on Main Feed

and the return, a split into four episodes on main feed to end this series. But that's how the totality of Twin Peaks will be covered. And more pie and coffee will be consumed. Just keep sending pies out to you guys? Absolutely. We'll buy a good cherry pie. What was the Brooklyn bakery you mentioned?

That's what we should do. They do have a sour cherry pie right now. I checked. And maybe next time we drink some of the Nightmare Before Christmas coffee I have that's been fucking... That stuff is toxic. Toxic. Yes. It is.

Disgusting. I truly couldn't bear... I couldn't even get the... I couldn't even smell it. I couldn't get the flavor out of the coffee pot. I'm just telling you. Oogie Boogie's mudslide has an interesting character to it. The Santa one I'm not gonna defend.

Alright. Griffin, wrap us up. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you to Marie Barty for helping to produce the show. Jobo and Pat Reynolds for our artwork. David, this is who we are. This is where we live. No, it's not. We are in this lodge.

No, I reject that. It is not who we are. It is happening again. And the rejection? That's the tension that keeps people coming back. No, no, no. That's the mystery. That's the Laura Palmer mystery. Ben, listen to me. We're not doing this for the rest of our lives. Not three. That's back JJ birch colon the return it's happening again Thank you to

AJ mckinn for editing also our production coordinator on the show tune in next week for wild at heart You go to blank check pot comm for links to some real nerdy shit, including our Patreon, blank check special features, where as we said, that's where you're gonna wanna go if you wanna hear Twin Peaks Season Two. There's only so many slots on Twin Peaks. Yeah, and it is what it is, and we're gonna do a very robust conversation

about a very cool season of television. It'll be robust, I'm gonna need some more shittie pie. Yeah. And as always, six. Six. And as always, sex. Sex.