Blank Check with Griffin & David - Under Siege 2: Dark Territory

Episode Date: September 7, 2016

Griffin, David and guest host Producer Ben present a special episode this week: a discussion of 1995’s action thriller Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. But is it true the co-founder of CAA and former Disney president, Michael Ovitz, bet he could make even a stocky Aikido teacher with zero acting experience a star? Does Hollywood make these b-list midsize action movies anymore? Is Steven Seagal our quietest action hero? Together the trio examines New Zealand director and journeyman Geoff Murphy’s career, Eric Bogosian’s performance as the scientist gone bad, earthquake inducing satellites sponsored by the U.S. government and the original song written AND performed by Steven Seagal “After the Train Has Gone.” Plus, share a Hamilton themed Burger Report, review Star Trek Beyond and what occupations Nic Cage said he would like to portray. Finally, remember dear listener that after this week’s palette cleanser Blank Check will return with our new mini series covering the films of James Cameron!

right back's gone dane did you see Assumption is the mother of all podcasts. Yeah, there we go. That's the best one. Hey, welcome everyone to Blank Check with Griffin and David. This is a podcast where we take directors' filmographies and we watch them start to finish, episode to episode, analyzing along the way of their career when they became a blank check director. Now today is a special one-off episode because we are doing a palate cleanser between our last miniseries, which was Cameron Crowe, and our next miniseries, which is going to

be very exciting, James Cameron. But today on the podcast, we are doing a one-off episode about 1995's action thriller. Mm-hmm. Under Siege 2. Dark Territory. Boom, baby. Now, I'm Producer Ben. Yeah, good.

Thank you for introducing yourself. Do you go by any other names? I have other names. I want to see if you can do this. The Pretour Ben, the Ben Ducer, the Haas, the Fuckmaster, the Poet Laureate, Birthday Benny. Wait, what was the change? Oh, Mr. Haas-itive. Mr. Haas-itive. Yeah, you don't have to do the Haas.

That's okay. That's okay. And I think I hit them all. I don't know. Birthday Benny, the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker. The tiebreaker. Sure, sure, sure.

Keeper, you're not Professor Crisp. And I've also graduated along the Benny Simony series. Of course, there's Kylo Ben. Ben won Kenobi. Producer Ben Kenobi, yes. Oh, excuse me. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. And then M. Night.

Ben Night. No, Ben Night Shyamalan. And then, what is it? Benny Lane now? No, I don't know, actually. Say Benny thing, I think. Say Benny thing. We did a vote, but I haven't looked at the results.

Ben Sate, also. You forgot Ben Sate. Oh, Ben Sate, of course. And Hello Fennel. We see you on the street. If you see me on the street, you can always wish me a hearty Hello Fennel, but don't you dare call me Professor Crispy. I will smack you in the face.

It's worth noting that you are, as we all know, our finest film critic. Of course. And so we've handed you the reins, as we like to do sometimes between miniseries. Every so often, we let Ben choose the movie. Yeah, and you chose Under Siege 2. Yes. Dark Territory. Oh, man. I watched this movie.

Anytime this was on TV or I had this as another VHS film I owned and I would watch repeatedly, I loved this one. Did you see it in theaters? I did not. No. No. I think I was too young. Yeah, 95.

Yeah, I was like 10 years old. But obsessed with Steven Seagal and just in general, bad 80s action movies. Love them. I love the pacing of them. It's just like easy, digestible, dumb garbage. And it's fun. And why not? Why not?

It's fun. And why not? So here we are. Under Siege 2. Dark territory. You don't need to see the first Under Siege. Well, I don't know. A film by Jeff Murphy, who I want to talk about in a little bit because he is a great

director and I can't believe he made this little bit because he is a great director, and I can't believe he made this movie. I've seen a lot of his movies. Done a bunch of sequels, too. He was the sequel guy for a while. He did Young Guns, too, right? Yeah, because he was a New Zealand filmmaker who was like, I mean, before Peter Jackson, he was the greatest thing New Zealand cinema had ever produced.

Then he comes over to Hollywood, and Hollywood's like, yeah, sequels. You want to do some sequels? Yeah, because he did Young Guns 2. Yeah. I don't know. He did Never Say Die. What's that again? I don't know.

He did Fortress 2 Reentry. Okay. He did a lot of movies, like a lot of crap, you know. I'm going to throw one thing out there from the get-go. No, Never Say Die is a New Zealand movie. Yeah, go on. Yes. I think this movie is really well directed.

Yeah, well, he's a great director. Yeah. I think there is like a technical proficiency and clarity to this film that I'd say... That is not necessary

in movies like this. And it's very much lacking from like the equivalent movies of today. The equivalent action movies? Yes. Okay, well, here's one thing we're going to talk about. Yeah'm eating sour skittles i know you're going to ask

and i have an answer well okay i don't that really threw me actually okay ask your question well is this happening today these kinds of movies very very little much less yes there's there's statham that's what i was gonna say that's the answer i think statham's the only guy who's occupying a similar space the sort of b-list, mid-size action movie star. You know, movies that don't need to clear, you know, $100 million domestic or whatever. You know, like, you know, decent budget, decent return, long life on video. You know, no one's asking many questions. Or not.

Milshon finances them. Yeah. But I think. Yeah, right. They're financed by some guy who owns a building in Qatar. And he's like, I love Jason Statham. And they're like, well, you're going to love Mechanic Resurrection. He's going to kill someone in a swimming pool.

Which I saw the Mechanic. That movie's not a sequel to the Mechanic. No, I think they were just like, Statham's back. Yeah, that's a sequel to every Jason Statham movie, Mechanic Resurrection. to every Jason Statham movie, Mechanic Resurrection. What I was going to say is, I think there is a lot more TLC devoted to Under Siege 2

than there is to Mechanic Resurrection. Like, I think as part of the direction the film industry has been going in where it's like things are either tiny or they're huge. Like, what Seagal used to be, which was like a $40 million movie, is now like a $15 or $20 million movie on a Statham level.

Do you know what I'm saying? Sure. The actual midsize doesn't exist anymore. This was a $60 million movie. Well, this was a sequel to- Right, to a much more conservatively budgeted film. But I think yes. I think originally he was sort of in the 40 zone was kind of his area.

Or in today's dollars, it would be about 40. 40 zone was kind of his like area you know or or today's dollars it would be about 40 um i also think that um well i i think i think this movie is a testament to a type of uh a movie star that doesn't exist anymore but we'll get to that i want to let ben it doesn't exist as much anymore yeah i mean i think our friend matt singer who will maybe one day be on this podcast i would love that yeah hopefully well has talked about talked about Schwarzenegger as an auteur. It's like, don't look at the director of Schwarzenegger's movies. Schwarzenegger's really the auteur. Same goes for Seagal.

I was going to say, I think that's true for a lot of these 80s, 90s action stars like Van Damme, Seagal, the lesser Schwarzeneggers, but still, same kind of deal. The directors were coming in. They needed them to be proficient, and not piss off the, you know, prima donna. That's the thing,

all these guys were prima donnas, and they were super, like, self-conscious, and protective of their image. Right, absolutely. And all the movies are about

inflating their own dick. Yes, absolutely. And it's like, you watch these movies, I mean, here's the thing, yes,

the stars of, like, a Chuck Norris film, a Steven Seagal film, a Schwarzenegger movie, a Stallone movie, they are yes the the stars of like a chuck norris film a steven seagal film a schwarzenegger movie a stallone movie they are ultimately the final voice of these films i feel like because the film is so much a testament to who they want people to think they are like their movies function as a tribute to them right um but i also think that the interesting thing is to look at a film like this and see that it is well directed because you're like

this guy is doing a really good job swerving between the traffic cones because you know how many needles he had to thread in this movie. Okay but Ben take the reins. I just as we know I think that's good. There's some points I want to make I think we should go through Steven Seagal's like

backstory a little bit. Oh I want to talk about his backstory but you go ahead Ben. Well I mean yeah sure I to talk about his backstory. But you go ahead, Benny. Well, I mean, yeah, sure. I don't know his backstory. I mean, I assumed he was, like, a keto guy. He was a karate man. Do you want to know his backstory? I mean, his backstory is, yeah.

I know his backstory. It's amazing. Well, I mean, yeah, he was in a keto and karate. I mean, I think he started life as, like, a dishwasher. You know, he has one of these, like, you know, rags to riches type stories. And he, And he met some karate teacher when he

was a dishwasher. He worked in the restaurant who taught him everything he knows and he became this legendary... At least this is the Seagal version of the story which is the only one I've heard. I don't know if there's any massaging of the truth here. Now the Kido, the fighting style that he specializes in. Yes, where he's sort of moving

his hands around a lot. It's very much about taking other people's energy and reacting to it. Using it against them. Exactly. And it's not very cinematic. No. It's not, although it's arresting to watch. Like, there is certainly something where you're like, what is happening right now? But more like modern dance than like action.

I mean, that's the incredible thing about him is like everyone else in a Steven Seagal movie kind of fights better than Steven Seagal because they're doing like on camera fighting rather than he's practicing a real art form that doesn't pop visually. It's like basically just like I did something to your wrist and they're like, oh, well, it's just a lot of waving his hands around, like sort of defensively, preemptively. And then the moves are so quick and are so contained and small that it doesn't really look like it. It's like it is. It looks like a nun's disciplinary action. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't look like it. Yeah, it looks like he's, I mean, it looks like the joke of two cats fighting and they're just slapping each other in the face.

Anyway, he was Michael Ovitz's Aikido teacher. Now, you guys, podcast listeners might not know who Michael Ovitz is, but he founded the Creative Arts Agency. He was like a legendary, like, renegade agent of the 70s who became, like, the whatever, the changemaker in that industry. Yeah, he kind of owned Hollywood. He was completely, completely 100% out of his mind. Yeah, crazy person.

I mean, like, well known as being one of the biggest lunatics in Hollywood who eventually went over to Disney after 20 years of total success at CIA and literally crashed and burned out of Disney within two years. I mean, if you've seen the late, what's it called? The late break, the Letterman Leno HBO TV movie.

Oh, The Late Shift. The Late Shift, that's what it's called. Treat Williams plays him for two great scenes. It's the best. Anyway, he was crazy. Seag's like the best you know anyway he was crazy seagal was like his aikido teacher and he was just like you're gonna be a star and had him do a demonstration for like some studio executive and that's how he made above the law which is his first movie but let's step back i mean it's crazy i mean like those are the days when that shit

happened he was the aikido teacher of an agent now why this agent's getting aikido lessons i don't know maybe he just thought it was the cool thing that year. Because he wanted his dick inflated, too. That was the time in the 80s. Everyone wanted to be able to say, my dick's inflated. Yeah. I got a puffy dick. I filled it with air.

You know? And he goes, I think you're a movie star. He brings him. They do a screen test, not for anything in particular, just to prove that he could work on screen. And then they went, okay okay here's your own starring vehicle he had no acting experience he practiced a form of fighting that does not really translate cinematically

and they wrote and designed an entire movie around him and his first acting job ever was the lead was like a hero they were trying to sell him as a brand before he had even shown that he could say a line of dialogue. And the poster is just his face and he's holding a gun and it's like Steven Seagal is above the law.

I mean, the movie cost like $7 million. It wasn't like a huge deal or whatever. It was pretty small and they opened it only on like 300 screens opening weekend and it kind of expanded. But it did well. But what's insane about it is, and this is a thing that doesn't happen anymore, it was part of a deliberate brand development thing. They were like, the first Seagal movie's not going to be huge. We have to make a couple movies to get him to sort of get into the public consciousness. So they sold him as if he was already a thing that people knew, just his head on the poster,

just his name above the title. And it was just like, Steven Seagal, who's this guy? So by the time the third movie came out, it was like, he was just sort of above the title. And it was just like, Steven's like, oh, who's this guy? So by the time the third movie came out, it was like he was just sort of a given thing. Yeah, and also it was very much that 80s model of what's the poster? Him. That's it.

What's the title? Just something very vague above the law. Like, don't bet. Don't do that. I have a gun. Really? And like, Ovitz apparently literally was like, I bet you I can make anyone a movie star.

And he was true. Like, he could. Like, he had the formula. I think that was part of the thing was that he wanted to prove how powerful he was. Andrew Davis is a decent director. Did The Fugitive, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Good movie. He was nominated for Best Director. No, he wasn't. He wasn't, but the film was nominated for Best Director. The film was nominated for Best Director. I don't think they nominated him.

They knew he was a hack. He made Under Siege. Like, Andrew Davis was like- And he made Holes, which is really fucking't. He wasn't, but the film was not made for best picture. The film was not made for best picture. I don't think they nominated him. They knew he was a hack. He made Under Siege. Andrew Davis was like- And he made Holes, which is really fucking good. He did. And he made Collateral Damage, which made Chain Reaction. But he peaked with The Fugitive. He was in the 80s a good actor.

One of the guys. But I think there are a couple of things going on here. One is definitely like, I can make anyone a star and he wanted to prove that. Two is, this was the first time I think there are a couple of things going on here. One is definitely like, I can make anyone a star and he wants to prove that. Two is, this was like the first time I think Hollywood successfully, and this stopped being a thing in the same kind of way because we get to the point where characters are more valuable than actors.

Where by and large now, our like biggest stars are the marriage of a person in a role rather than the person themselves being bigger than the film. Right. You know? It's like Bourne's value is tied to bigger than the film right you know it's like

Bourne's value is tied to Damon and vice versa you know like I mean Depp and Pirates of the Caribbean obviously all the Marvel people you know Vin Diesel and like Fast and Furious and you watch these people who are like the highest paid actors in Hollywood and are like you know constantly talked about but when they do their passion projects off to the side people don't really follow them down the weird corridors in the same way you know um which we you know, constantly talked about, but when they do their passion projects off to the side, people don't really follow them down the weird corridors in the same way, you know? Which, you know, we've been talking a lot about, like, sort of the modern state of the American movie star. I mean, the Crow films kind of are, like,

interesting prism to look through, like, the difference between, you know, Tom Cruise, Jerry Maguire, which is, like, peak movie star. Sure. And then where we are today. Where it's like Bradley Cooper. Right.

No offense to Bradley Cooper, but no one's running to see a movie because Bradley Cooper's in it. And the culture's changed. It just doesn't work the same way anymore. He has to structure his career very differently, you know? Like Tom Cruise wouldn't have played Rocket Raccoon in Guardians of the Galaxy. Sure. And I think Bradley Cooper's great in that movie.

Me too. But I think he knew it was like, I need to do like brand deposits in like certain types of things that give me the cachet to make American Sniper. I mean- And American Sniper's a surprise hit. I just want to go off, having just seen War Dogs,

and I saw War Dogs, for your sins, everyone out there, I saw War Dogs. Thank you. And he's in it. And he produced it. And he produced,

and it really feels, and he's in like, he's like the fourth lead. He's kind of a very small character. He's obviously, and you know, think of the other movies. He's trying to make it like the 70s again. He's like, come on. Were you the one who tweeted that?

Yeah, I tweeted that. It's not really working. It's not working, but I appreciate that. God bless him for trying. Yeah, because he's like, why can't I just like pop up in some like weird gun movie and be like, hey, I'm crazy. And you're like, oh, it's Bradley Cooper. He wants that to be real. Why can't I make Limitless on CBS and be in it several times? He's one of our most creatively adventurous A-list stars right now.

Even though he's not an adventurous actor. And I don't think he's a bad actor. Anyway, let's get off Bradley Cooper. The Seagal thing I want to say is what's amazing is the way they sold Steven Seagal is they put him in front of the American audiences and went like, oh, you don't know who Steven Seagal is? Like, they tried to just- Akito Master! They tried to drop him as if we all already knew who he was.

I mean, that's how I was introduced to him. Right, that's- Someone was like, you don't know who Steven Seagal is? It was like Gabbo on The Simpsons. It was like, you're supposed to know who Steven Seagal is. I want to ask Ben. Yeah. All right, so Ben, you like Steven Seagal?

Hell yeah. So what introduced you to Steven Seagal is. I want to ask Ben. Alright, so Ben, you like Steven Seagal? Hell yeah. So what introduced you to Steven Seagal would you say? We were all kids in the 90s. TV movies. Do you remember what the first one you watched was? Because he was like a big TNT rotation guy. Movies on AMC or whatever. It was definitely like TNT or USA

and it was my friend Garrett's older brother Travis was like super into karate and he was like you gotta watch these movies. And I don't remember specifically what it was my friend Garrett's older brother, Travis, was like super into karate. And he was like, you got to watch these movies. And I don't remember specifically what it was. They sort of are all mashed together in my mind as the same movie. It's just like, here's Steven Seagal. He's a normal guy.

He's going to fuck everybody up. Oh, he's not a normal guy. He's the greatest guy who's ever lived. Well, of course. He's very zen. The whole idea is that he's like this blue collar perfect man. Right. Like he's both like

just one of the people and he's like capable of anything and everyone fucking knows who he is and bows down to him and all women want to inflate his dick.

He's got like a little MacGyver. He's got the karate master thing, the zen thing. And he doesn't want to fight. That's the other,

that's the key of a Steven Seagal movie. I feel like every Seagal movie, and I feel like this is, this is not specious, this is true. Yeah. Like,

his character is always unflappable, barely raises his voice. Yeah. He has no emotional arc. Has no emotions really at all. No, no. Never is any,

in any danger. Yeah. You know, other people might be in danger, but you, you kind of like, he's not really hurt. He doesn't like,

he's invincible. There's not a lot of physical activity. Like, something, something you know he might have to pull himself up or something but like he he like schwarzenegger whatever that guy's gonna be like have cuts all over him like be like throwing like yes something that's falling on him he has to throw it out you know like there's a lot of strain and you also put under strain right and even talking about like someone like schwarzenegger who wasn't like a guy who was doing a lot of stunts but he was doing a lot of physical acting.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Split the difference there. Seagal does no stunts. Seagal is like all

wind up like I was watching it last night and I was like oh Seagal's whole thing is that he's really good at looking like he's about to do something badass.

You know he's really good at like looking around the corner with the gun. He's really good at like making you feel the anticipation of it. His eyes are always narrowed. I don't mean his eyes are in that shape.

He's just always kind of squinting at everyone. He's always got kind of a grimace. He's tight-lipped, you know? And he's really good at that. But he is kind of the perfect encapsulation of the difference between a movie star and an actor. And not that the two things cannot be one and the same. But he is not a good actor. He's an awful actor. Like, there are some people

like Sylvester Stallone or even Van Damme who can be good. People have gotten good performances out of them. It's hit and miss. Right. And Schwarzenegger for sure. And there's someone like Bradley Cooper who is both, who's a good actor and a good movie star. Bradley Cooper inside the actor's studio. He wanted to be an actor. Yeah. Steven Seagal's not is both, who's a good actor and a good movie star. Bradley Cooper inside the actor's studio. Right.

He wanted to be an actor. Yeah. Steven Seagal's not an actor. He's an awful actor. Right. But he's kind of a great movie star. He's a movie star. He walks into that train car and you're like, uh-oh.

He's got that look. He's got that sweet ponytail. And he just pops. He's iconic. He's iconic. For a guy who is objectively husky and has a ponytail. He was never in good shape. Not really ever in great shape.

And he was never aligned with the cultural standards of coolness. I was in an era when these guys were in ridiculous shape, which is no longer really required of these movie stars. But in the 80s and 90s, Van Damme were in absurd physical shape. But that was the whole thing. Stallone and Schwarzenegger had this arms race where it was like, who can get more buff? Like every film,

they had more muscles, they had more shirtless scenes, they were more oiled up. Seagal's not like that at all. No. He's always in his very dapper black suits or whatever.

He dresses like my dead grandma. He's like black t-shirt, black jacket over it, black slacks. All of it's pretty loose fitting. He's got this weird fucking ponytail. Yeah.

So his career was in 88 he was in Above the Law, which I think is sort of a cop movie. Like a rogue cop movie. Pam Greer's in it. Interesting. And then in 90 he's in Hard to Kill. I mean, all the titles were three works. And that's Kelly LeBrock? That's Kelly

LeBrock, who I believe he either married or had a long affair with. He married. That was his third wife. I went onto his Wikipedia page. I don't know the full backstory of this, but two of his marriages listed on Wikipedia overlap with each other. Not relationships, but it says married to the first one from 19-whatever to 1986 and then it says married to the second one from 1984 to 1995. It's something like that which is like, Stephen. Stephen. Hard to kill. Hard to kill.

Hard to kill 90. In that one he plays a cop. Right. But in that one it's the cop woke up from a coma and like he has to avenge whatever put him in a coma. Yeah. Then also in 90 he's in Marked for Death. Uh-huh. In which he plays a DEA agent.

Okay. Ooh. Ooh. Who is avenging the death of his partner Chico. Okay. And then in 91 he's in Out for Justice. Hell yeah. You like that one? I do. In that one he plays a cop

who is out for justice. Right, right, right, right. I remember this now. And then in 92, and I feel like this is all those movies do pretty well, but it's sort of a slight. In 92 he's in Under Siege, which is a big hit, does really well. It's directed by Andrew Davis. Tommy Lee Jones and Gary Busey are in it.

It's nominated for Oscars, like sound Oscars. But still, that's a sign that it was noticed in the industry that it wasn't just some cheap trash that came out in March or whatever. some cheap trash that came out in March or whatever. Yeah. And so, like, now it's like, and in that he plays a former Navy SEAL who is now a chef on a boat. Regular guy. And then some shit happens on the boat.

He fucks people up. And I haven't seen Under Siege in a million years, if I've seen it at all. I have never seen it. I've never seen it. You've never seen it? No. Okay. Because I was going to ask you if an Under Siege, because in Under Siege 2, his name

is Casey Ryback, the character. Yeah. When, in some fucking secret military installation, when it's announced that Casey Ryback is on the train, everyone is like, wait, what? Casey Ryback? Yeah. Like, only the most deadly Navy SEAL to ever, so I'm wondering. Casey Ryback, the guy from Under Siege?

The characters almost respond... Are they like, oh, you mean the chef from the boat? Or is he so famous that he was famous before he had Under Siege happen? Well, I mean, I think this plays into the Seagal thing in that he's all about the wind-up. As an actor, it's about the anticipation of him looking like he's going to do something badass. And the films, because he himself is not that capable of being

badass the movies have to constantly have everyone explain how badass he is so you like are able to load that onto him so the idea that I think like he just has because I was talking I was talking to my buddy Hawken last night who had seen

has seen both Under Sieges right and he didn't remember that well but he said like and he was like oh I always like the Under Sieges, right? Sure. And he didn't remember that well, but he said like, and he was like, oh, I always liked the Under Siege movies because he's a chef. Like, I always liked that thing. And I was like, so is the idea that like Under Siege 1 because they say in this, he's just cooking on the boat. Right, he's cooking on the boat.

He's retired. Right. That's the thing. It's a shittier version of the John McClane thing. Yeah. Where it's like Much shittier. Right. John McClane was an average guy who's put into extraordinary circumstances and has to step up to the plate. But we buy John McClane can use a gun because he's a cop or whatever. But it's like he's wrong place, wrong time, but he's not the greatest cop in the world. No.

He's not even necessarily a great cop. Obviously, after Die Hard- It gets a little ridiculous. Well, yeah. Yes. But in Die Hard, John McClane basically knows how to use a gun and that if you

tape a bunch of explosives to a chair and throw it down an elevator shaft they'll probably blow up. Like it's not like complicated what he does. And I even think

by the time you get to even I think Die Hard with a Vengeance is where it starts to break a little bit but on that movie they still are like let's bring in John McClane

he has experience with this. Not let's bring in John McClane he's a famous badass.. Not let's bring in John McClane. He's a famous badass. They were like, he's done similar cases to this. We might want to bring him in. This movie is like, I think the idea is that he was a Navy SEAL. He didn't want to do it anymore.

He chose food. And then every time they force him to fucking get back in and prove that he's the most powerful person in the world. He's the only man for the job. Right. And he just happens to be in the right place, right time for the conflict to ensue and for him to react and deal with it. And he doesn't want to get into the conflict, but there also is no refusal of the call in this movie.

Like, the second shit goes down, he's like, okay, I guess I gotta do it. Like, there's no inner battle of like, I told myself I'd get away from this life. It's his young niece. He's gotta make sure that she's protected. Well, so we'll get to Under Siege shoot in a second, but just his final piece of setup. Yeah. So I feel like after Under Siege, Seagal is, he's pretty big. Huge.

Under Siege 2, Under Siege 1, adjusted for inflation, would make $200 million today. Huge hit. Which would be humongous. Wow. So then he's poppin', so he makes On Deadly Ground. Which he directs, and it's a passion project. A passion project about environmental issues

in the upper, in the northwest. Does he play someone of Native American heritage in that movie? I believe he plays, it's like, if he's not playing an Alaskan native, it's certainly about the plight of Alaskan natives. I think he's playing an Alaskan native, yeah.

And like oil drillers, and like Michael Caine and Billy Bob Thornton are in it. Like, you know, it's like and it's a flop because it's stupid. I think a lot of the clips you see of Seagal being a weird asshole come from that movie, like where he like gives speeches and stuff about like, you know, I don't know. It's dumb. Nobody likes it. And it's on his back heel. And the American public sort of says, like, we don't care what you have to say. We don't like you because we think you have interesting thoughts.

Just be Steven Seagal. Right. So, but exactly. So he's on his back heel. So it's like, oh, okay. Under Siege 2, right? Why not make Under Siege 2? So he makes Under Siege 2.

Under Siege 2 is before On Deadly Ground. No, it's after. Oh, really? Yeah. On Deadly Ground is 94. That's what I'm saying. Oh, wow. Under Siege 2. So he makes Under Siege 2. Under Siege 2 is before Undeadly Ground. No, it's after. Oh, really? Yeah. Undeadly Ground is 94. That's what I'm saying. Oh, wow. Under Siege 2 is 95. Okay. Now, so I don't know, you know, obviously it's close enough in real estate, so I'm not sure if this

is a total response. He's obviously like, alright, I made the passion project. But this was safe. Yeah, but this is the opposite of that. It does well, but it does like half as well as the first one. There's like a big drop off. Yeah, this one does okay. It makes $50 million. Which would be $100 million today.

Under Siege 2. He picks Jeff Murphy. Dark Territory. Jeff Murphy, I mean, I'll talk about him later because I don't want to get too deep into him now, but he's a great director. I think he does a decent job.

So Under Siege 2. Ben, would you like to take us through a tour of the plot of this film? I would love to. So we start fucking strong as hell with a rocket ship. Right? Yeah. And you're like space? What? Yeah. Okay. Cool. I thought this movie took place on a train.

Right. That was the whole ad campaign. Alright, well, we're going to be dealing with space and we're going to be dealing with a lot of space. Okay? So then you go to a control room, right? And so it basically sets up that they're launching this satellite. And this satellite is a weapons defense system, essentially.

Right? And we also meet Eric's dad. And he's like kind of leading the way. You know, Eric Foreman's dad. Kurtwood Smith. Sure. Also known as Clarence Boddicker. Also known as Red.

And then there's also an introduction of a lot of sexism. And that's going to be a through line throughout this movie. Sure. Now, we just, we got to acknowledge it. It's of the time. Oh yeah, no, I mean, I didn't blink an eye, put it that way. I didn't either. But it's definitely kind of like, wow, we've at least made some progress.

I don't know. But I don't know. It's more subliminal now. Right. And here's the thing. I kind of find that more insidious. Oh, yeah. Like, I was watching this, and I was like, because we get boobs like 90 seconds into this movie, right? Oh, yeah.

You have a space shuttle, then they cut to mission control, they're setting up the satellite, and they're like, let's give it a test, let's see if we can spy on anybody, and the first thing they see is a woman sunbathing, and they're like, zoom in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's test to see if it works. Right, right. Can you clear up the image? And then they're just looking at tits, and the one guy's like, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, at least

this movie's just candidly going, like, we're gross, we're just looking at tits. 90 seconds was, I would, surprise. Itits. 90 seconds was a surprise. It was fast. I was like, how would they even believe that? Really fast. And it's also not just like you're looking at tits, but the film is setting up that the government is spying on women

so they can look at their tits and oogle them. But I'm going to keep on relating this film to Suicide Squad just because it's in my recent memory. I don't even remember Suicide Squad I remember it too much it haunts me in my dreams but I like my thought while watching this movie over and over again was like they don't make bad movies like this

anymore like I miss this kind of bad and like I kind of find Suicide Squad more insidious because they're trying to simultaneously like argue that Harley is this like empowered feminist character when she's not at all. And the film like ogles her so much and there's so many shots of her ass where it's like both are shitty. I would like female characters to have agency in movies, you know, and have like a diversity of portrayals of women and different roles.

of portrayals of women in different roles, but I also feel like I kind of prefer the one where you're just like, we're just showing you tits, rather than being like, Harley Quinn is like a role model. It's like, lean into it or don't. Yeah. I'd rather you stand up and go like, hey, I'm a piece of shit, than tell me like, no, I'm a good guy,

and then be a piece of shit. Right. I kind of want honesty in my filmmaking. I know what you mean. Even if it's honesty about being bad. It's an era also when things are just sectioned off where they're like, oh, this movie's not for women to watch. Would a woman want to watch this? Like, they'd be genuinely surprised.

Like, huh? Yeah. I mean, which is gross in its own way. But, you know, I mean, it's when Hollywood pandered so exclusively where they're like, oh, no, don't worry. We'll have one for you guys. Like, wait a second, let's go get some rom-com for you, okay? You didn't have to make four-quadrant films. I mean, that was the thing. Rom-coms were so big, and also

you had these sort of programmer action movies that were really big, and it was like that's the sectioning off. And then you have a couple movies a year that connect in our four-quadrant sort of cross broad appeal movie. I mean, we're going to get to the box office game and I feel like

it's very clear in the films that are out. The divide. I just thought, let's address it there because it's so early on and we can just move on. It's throughout the movie, it's gross. We'll mention the other times it happens. This movie sees no value in women other than their bodies. Tits!

A lot of tits in this one. Or as innocence to be defended. Innocence. movie sees no value in women other than their pets. Lots of this or as like innocence to be defended in a sense. Right. But it's like all those scenes are about people like even the scenes between her and Seagal.

It's all like everyone trying to fuck her. Yeah. No no for sure. I mean yeah. No that's right. Yeah. But and they're trying

to cut it both ways where it's like well it's like you have to put her in danger of being like sexually ruined quote unquote said Seagal has something to like defend. But also the film is like, hey, don't you want to watch a bunch of guys skis on her? Yeah, that's true. So anyway, moving right along.

Well, they launched the satellite. They launched the satellite. It's a success. Okay. We go then to meeting Steven Seagal. Yeah. L.A. Union Station. Right.

And he is showing up at his restaurant because he is- Yeah, we see him at the restaurant first. The head cook- Forgot about that. Is basically establishing, A, he's cool as fuck. Yeah. Okay. Also, he's setting up that his parents recently died in a plane crash.

Uh-huh. I'm not sure if that's in Under Siege, the original. I don't think so. None of us know. It's really weird, but they mention that. That's why he's taking a train, guys, okay? Right. Because you wouldn't normally travel to L.A. on a train from where?

Are they in Colorado, I believe? No, they're going to Colorado. Oh, okay. From L.A., yes. No, but, yeah. Either way, they're setting up why they need to get on a train, which I don't need, but okay. I know, but it is funny because I'm like, LA to Denver, you're going to take like a

12 hour train or however long this fucking train must be? I also love that the guy at the restaurant is like, man, why do you come around here more? And he's like, you know, I'm just not in a great space right now. And he's like, yeah, but man, the only reason, he's like, the restaurant's still doing well, right? People like it. And he's like, the only reason people like this restaurant is because of you. Right. Like, he's the most important person in

everyone's life. Right. Like, the restaurant has no value if he's not there. Right. Yeah. They also set up in this short little scene that he's meeting with his niece who he hasn't seen in many years. His niece, who is played by Katherine Heigl. Yeah.

A youngish Katherine Heigl. What is she, probably 14 or something? Yeah. She's pretty much older than that, yeah. Early teens probably. Who's playing Sarah Ryback, his niece, whose father was also a Navy hero and won the Navy Cross. Although the film later makes clear that Steven Seagal's character won two Navy Crosses. He was more a Navy hero and won the Navy Cross. Although the film later makes clear

that Steven Seagal's character won two Navy Crosses. He was more of a hero. Just in case you thought, yeah, her dead dad was more of a hero than Steven Seagal. And their relationship makes no sense because he shows up. He's like, go see my niece. Yeah. And he goes to see her and immediately she's like,

fuck you. Like, where are you? Why didn't you see me, my brother? She's got a lot of tood. Right. She's got a rude tood. she's like, ugh, fuck you. Like, where are you? Why didn't you see me, my brother? She's got a lot of tood. Right. She's got a rude tood. It feels like, okay, now he like left her at some point, like he's abandoned her in some kind of way as an uncle and she feels wronged. How mad can she be? He is just her uncle.

Right. She could have swung by the Mile High Cafe. Just saying. But they also never like explain like the scene which is like Denver omelet. Right. Yeah.

Yes he could have. Could have. Yes she could. Yes she can. And she would have loved it because everyone loves his cooking. Steven Seagal.

That's right. But only when he's there in the restaurant. Right. Because if you eat the omelet and he's not there it doesn't taste the same.

It tastes like dust. It tastes like dust. He's the secret sauce. But I also think like in a more dramatically functional version of this movie and i actually think this film is decently scripted you know for what it's doing i think it's like pretty tight in terms of setup payoff it's pretty tight in terms of yeah keeping the narrative focused i wouldn't say very cliched very by the book but

it's incredibly cliche i wouldn't say it's well written. It's functional. I'd say it's very functional. The lines unfortunately don't pop at all which is kind of what I want from one of these movies a little more. I think the line that Ben quoted was great. The line that Ben quoted is funny because especially because they repeat it and you're like okay. But I wish there was a little more of that.

You like you know you like a little crazy. Assumption is the mother of all fuck up. But also but Steven Seagal can't deliver one-liners, so you have to give the lines to everyone else. But the other thing is, he's so clearly obsessed with being completely infallible in every way that you have to imagine the first draft of the script, there was a way that he really betrayed, abandoned,

or disappointed his niece, so that there's a moment that he has to like, you know, sort of repent for. And this film doesn't have that because they don't want to have him have done anything wrong in his life. So it's just like she's angry at him and then the second they get on the train, she won't stop talking to everyone else about her uncle

was the most important figure in her life. So there's like no moment where he fucked her over. But she's like, I still wear the necklace that he gave me. He taught me how to do fucking judo. I think really the main conflict is more so that her father has recently passed. And he wasn't there. And he wasn't around and they sort of had a falling out. Right.

But it's never explained because they don't want him to have any responsibility. The one weird thing he does is they sit down on the train and he's like, I know you got the teddy bears, so I got you a teddy bear. And he takes a very generic looking teddy bear out of a backpack. Right. And she's just like, obviously she's like, what are you doing? I'm a teenager. I don't need a teddy bear.

He immediately says it. He's like, I don't know if you're too old for teddy bears now. I don't know. He doesn't even look at her. He's like looking straight ahead as he hands her this mirror. It's odd. Well, and here's like the thing of like Steven Seagal being a great movie star and a terrible actor. He doesn't have a single moment that registers as like recognizable human behavior.

Yes, that's accurate. But like the guy is so aware of how he plays on camera and his angles that he's like, I'm going to look ahead and not make eye contact with the other actors in the scene because I look best head on. He does. If I turn, you're going to see my double chin. I got to do this head on. We should say the script written by

Richard Hatem and Matt Reeves. A young Matt Reeves. Now a fun director. Who did the last Plan of the Apes movie and Cloverfield. Oh wow. I believe he's doing the next Plan of the Apes movie in Cloverfield. Oh, wow. And Let Me In. I believe he's doing the next Planet of the Apes. He's doing War 4.

Which I'm pumped for. Me too. Yeah. He's had an odd career, Matt Reeves. He wrote and directed The Pallbearer. He wrote and directed The Pallbearer. He co-wrote The Yards with James Gray. Right.

And he co-created Felicity with J.J. Abrams. Yeah, it's an odd career. Anyway, he wrote this. And he created Felicity. Yeah, with J.J. Abrams, which is, yeah, it's an odd career. Anyway, he wrote this. This was his first movie. Under Siege 2. Under Siege 2. Dark Territory.

Yes. All right, so now let's move right along. They get on the train. They do. They waste no time. They're on the train. A train bound for Denver.

I would say they're on the train by minute five of this movie. Yeah, but it's great. They fucking, I mean, it's. But it's great. They fucking- Nice train. It's not that it's like there's much set up or like that. They accomplish what they need to for this movie very quickly, right? Yeah.

And now you're on the fucking train. And it's a nice train. Double decker train. Very fancy looking train, right? The actor who I love from Boys in the Hood. Morris Chestnut. Morris Chestnut as a porter. Yeah, he's kind of hitting on Katherine Heigl.

Right. And you are kind of like, what the fuck, dude? You're young, but you're not this young. This is a little much. You're like, it seems like he's like 19 and she's like 14. If that. Right. And he's maybe 23 and she's 13, but yes.

Yeah, right. But no, he's just being cute. He's like, let me take your bag. Please, I need to take someone's bag. I gotta work. I gotta do something while I'm letting people in. So you have that interaction play out. Then you cut to a couple fucking in a cabin. You do! Very early on.

Who are they? You're trying to recognize. Three scenes later, you're like, oh, he was one of the guys at the satellite launch. But they don't draw the line very clearly but not at all she there too i think she was there maybe she was i think they're both there they're both involved with the satellite that's why i believe they're on the train like why the terrorists hijack the train oh 100 yes but also because of dark territory it's both yeah they know that they'll be able to go into dark territory because there'll be a point where they're off the grid.

Everyone knows what Dark Territory is, right? Great. We don't have to explain that, right? The movie doesn't. It doesn't explain it. It does use the phrase Dark Territory maybe 15 times. Quite a lot. Yeah.

Yes. Where they're like, oh, are we in Dark Territory? Yeah. Anyway, apparently that's when the train is not in communication with train operators on the ground. It's on disused old railroads and there's no signals. I don't know. It doesn't matter. It's just a good name. They obviously found it in an encyclopedia

and they were like, great! What's a cool thing that a train does? Well, it goes into dark territory sometimes. Perfect! I love it! But they're on the train they like immediately start fucking. Has the train even left the station

when they start going no cause usually that's like the thing like you know that's fucking how North by Northwest ends is like oh Cary Grant Eve Marie Saint Kiss

and then they cut to the train going in the tunnel that's always been like a classic of filmmaking you know in an earlier sort of like a code era of Hollywood filmmaking where you couldn't show sex

was like you have two characters kiss on a train and then you cut to the train going through the tunnel and it's like the audience can put it together. Eisenstein montage. Yeah, sure, sure. It all makes sense, you know?

Good reference to Eisenstein. Thank you. Which understeers you is very intended to Eisenstein. Very intended to Eisenstein. This movie has them fucking before the train starts moving. Like they get on the train, lock the door, start fucking, and then they're like, oh, they lock the gates. Oh, they lock those gates yeah uh were you as thrown off as i was by like the amount of people using the term

locked a gate locked gate or whatever yeah like this whole thing with him lying people were calling it ryan like locked gate and it just sounds like well now you're just doing like a bad like a racist impression of a Caribbean man doing Marc Maron. Lock the gate! That's what I thought. That's what I thought. Hold on, let me just take a sip of this tea quickly. A pow!

I just pissed my underwear! No. This is the blank check blend. It's a decaf tea. Looking at the roots, there is no LA to Denver train. Oh, really? No. It's the San Francisco to Denver train.

David, have you heard of Dark Territory? Yeah. That is surprising because it feels like the rest of this movie checks out. Well, okay, so can we talk about what this satellite does? This U.S. military approved satellite makes earthquakes. Yes. You point it at a place. Yeah.

Be it a person, an airplane. Paratitties. Paratitties. California. Yeah. And it'll make an earthquake. And at some points it makes earthquakes that literally explode one little fighter jet. Yeah.

But then we're also told it could make an earthquake that would eliminate California from the map. Right. We're shown a map with California, and then they're like, then they do this. And then the map is, there's no more California. It's just ocean. Yeah. And by the way, we should point out, dope ass fucking technology. I was going to say, I mean, this is a huge Ben.

There's also a huge thing with a pager, Ben. Yeah. Oh, we're going to talk about it. And an Apple Newton. Oh, my God, I know. Is a plot point in the movie is an Apple Newton. The original tablet. Yes.

Yes. No, but it's like the opening scene, they just launch the satellite. They prove that they can see a pair of titties, and they're like, great work, everybody, go home. You two, have fun fucking on that train. And it's like, wait a second, who approved an earthquake machine in the sky? What is this? And are they putting it up there for any reason? What purpose?

It's just a failsafe plan. But, like, the other thing, I mean, getting a little heavy stuff, but when they activate the satellite, like, the satellite, like, has, like, five tendrils come out that turn into that turn into claws that make it look like a fucking sentinel from the Matrix, which don't seem to serve any purpose other than to make it look scary. Yeah, it looks cool. In space, which no one's going to see. Yeah, I mean, it could be a fucking black box. Who cares? It doesn't matter. It could be anything.

It's also called the Grazer, which I feel like has to be some sort of backhanded. Grazer 1 to Brian Grazer? I think it had to be. He was just such a power player at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if, like, Steven Seagal had a bad interaction with Brian Grazer at a party and was like, we're going to call the evil machine Grazer. It feels like something he would do.

It feels like this movie was made by a very petty man. I don't think that's coincidental. It shares the name of one of Hollywood's biggest producers at the time. Grazer One. Yeah. So, Ben, we're on the train. People are boning. Fucking.

Seagal's giving a teddy bear to Heigl. Now, listen, Seagal hasn't seen his niece in a while, right? And they've gotten their seat. He's got to go make her a cake, right? So he just breaks off. She's giving him so much toot, by the way. That's true. But he's going to go make her a cake because he's a cook and he wants to showcase his skills so he sets up he goes to

like the kitchen car yeah yeah and the real reason is because they need to get him away from everyone else when the terrorists show up yeah now i mean they do right away right yeah and it's just like you see the nefarious guy outside of the train. You know he's the bad guy. Right. And he's talking on a walkie-talkie. Helicopters fly in. There's some people planted on the train.

Yeah. And they take the train over. Yeah. And it happens really quickly. Right? Yeah. And it's pretty, like, it's telling- I mean, it's a train. They're mercenaries.

It's not hard. Yeah. No. It's telling they're mercenaries. Yeah. They have, like, a- you know, they're trainedenaries They have like a They're trained Private contractors for this And then we

Are introduced to The mad crazy Scientist bad guy Travis Dane And they say in the earlier the satellite launch scene I think the couple who are fucking later on the train To something like it's too bad Dane couldn't be here to see this Like does anyone

He's talked about briefly in hushed tones. Sure, sure. As like, he was kind of the main architect of this, and he's not around anymore. So we learn that Dane is out for- Played by Eric Bogosian. And he's great. He's a real good bad guy. Famed hot wire monologist.

Yep, it's true. And playwright, Eric Bogosian. The first one, Tommy Lee Jones. This time they got Eric Bogosian. I agree that he's pretty good. I mean, it's like, again, in these kinds of movies, the villain is either like a wiry little guy with like a button-down shirt and a tie

who's crazy or is like a big buff dude who's like a monster. Or sometimes they split the difference and they do both. That's, I think, when it works best. And like Die Hard does that. Die Hard does it the best of them all, of course. Where they have like Carl and Gruber.

Right. But also Lethal Weapon does that as well. Like that's, it kind of works because you have one guy who's like a physical equal. I mean, Under Siege 1, I assume, we haven't seen it, but you've got Tommy Lee Jones and Gary Busey. One assumes Tommy Lee Jones is playing one role, Busey's playing the other. But I was, I mean, talk about they don't make bad movies like this anymore.

We end up inevitably talking about the Marvel movies a lot right now because they sort of dominate the conversation. Everyone's trying to follow in their footsteps. But I'd say one of the biggest problems with the Marvel movies recently is that, what's the biggest issue with Guardians of the Galaxy? It's that Ronan is indistinguishable from Curse and Malketh from Thor The Dark World. People's that like Ronan is like, you know, indistinguishable from like Curse and Malkith from Thor the

Dark World. People are tough on Ronan. Yeah. I don't think he's bad, but it's just like, I think he's fine. No, no. But it is kind of like you have. That movie has four villains and none of them really pop. And it's like you want to let one guy do the acting.

Right. And like have all the fun scenery chewing. And you want to let one person be the like physically... The brute. Right. And I think you get to like have your cake and eat it too if you do both.

Right. And this movie does that really well where it's like Bogosian can't hold his own in a fight. No, we're never going to buy that Bogosian's going to take on Seagal in an Aikido battle. Right.

Like, I mean, that's not going to happen. Right. Which even like, you know, I think that's... He can monologue, you know? Quantum of Solace does that where you have like Mathieu Almaric who's like a great fucking actor. Sure. Who's like the mastermind. Right. Which even like, you know, I think that's- He can monologue, you know? Quantum of Solace does that where you have like, Matthew Almaric, who's like a great fucking actor.

Sure. Who's like the mastermind. At the end of the film, it comes down to a fist fight between him and Daniel Craig. And it's like, well, this fight ends in two seconds. Right, right. Like, Matthew Almaric cannot hold his own. Yeah, Almaric's an odd performance.

I love him. I love him as an actor. I was so excited when they cast him. Me too, yeah. And he doesn't really register in that movie. He really has one scene. Like, I remember he has one scene when he freaks out and that's it. But then he's got a big fight

scene at the end and it's like this fight would not go on this long. That scene is dumb. So dumb. So alright we meet Boghossian right? Bad guy. He makes like some speech you know basically like letting all of the passengers know he's taken over the train. They're all forced to the back half of the

train. They're entering dark territory they are indeed entering the territory that is dark among the hijackers you got Peter Green who was like a bad guy in like every movie he's in the mask he's in the usual suspects

for a second he's red foot he was a big 90's heavy I looked him up he's credited as mercenary one he's in a lot I don't know. He was a big 90s heavy. I looked him up. He doesn't even have he's credited as Mercenary One. He's in a lot of scenes. You know who I was talking about. I know who you're talking about. And then we've got

Jonathan Banks is one of the guys who stops the train from Breaking Bad. Formerly of Wiseguy. Mike Ehrmantraut is one of the guys who stops the train.

Looks basically the same minus some wrinkles. I mean he's like a bald guy with a white goatee. It's basically the same guy. And Everett McGill who plays plays the main buff henchman. Yeah. Right?

The guy with the white hair. Yeah. Yeah. Great henchman. Great henchman in this movie. Yeah. I mean, they're pros. And their job is just like, surround Dane, let him work the pooter.

Right. And he, I don't know, he has that dumb monologue about cds but i love it because come on cds remember guys hot cd rom is it the one where he's trying like winding up the tension of whether the cd has porn or like the ability to launch on this yeah yeah that's a great speech yeah so it turns out the couple who are fucking. Okay, right. We should say when the train is hijacked, the guy goes, what was that? And she's like, it's called an orgasm. Yeah. Which is ludicrous.

The idea that he brought her an orgasm, I mean. Is insane. Not the idea. That man does not look attentive to a woman's ears. That guy does not know how to listen to a body. I'll say that, you know? But also, it's a ludicrous line of dialogue. Yeah, it's also insane that that dialogue exchange. And then a guy bursts in with a body. I'll say that. But also, it's a ludicrous line of dialogue. Yeah, it's also insane

that that dialogue exchange... And then a guy bursts in with a gun. Yeah, but here's the crazier thing. This is just true that that two-line dialogue exchange won a Pulitzer that year. It's crazy. That's crazy. But that was the time. That was like Mike Ovitz, Steven Seagal. That was the 90s.

And so you guys are right, to get back to the plot, that they do take these two agents, right? But I do want to just point out one little thing. It is that they've established that Seagal was in the kitchen. Yeah. One of the mercenaries goes in there and just the cooks start fighting him. They do. And that's kind of cool because they're all tough cooks.

I was going to say, I think Seagal respects a cook. Doesn't Nicolas Cage want to play a cook? Didn't you have some combo with him? I interviewed Nicolas Cage with my friend Derek Simon, and we asked him. This is one of the highlights of my entire life. This is a good story. We did a phone interview with him,

and they said only one person could be on the phone speaking to him. So we wrote out the questions, and I would hold up cue cards telling Derek what to say next. Right. Because they said if there are two voices, Nick is going to get confused. Sure, sure. So we talked to him at like 7 o'clock in the morning when he was promoting Ghost Rider 2 Spirit of Vengeance.

Not a bad movie. Not a good one. Yeah, and we worked really hard because we're big, big fans to ask him questions we felt like he wasn't being asked, but also not just be like dumb, meme-y, whatever. We did one ridiculous question. It doesn't matter. What was this question?

So this question was, you said when you were promoting The Sorcerer's Apprentice, when someone asked you what drew you to the project, you said, well, I got the script and I went, oh, wow, I've never played a wizard before. He's always wanted to be a sorcerer. Which is a thought that no actors had. That's weird.

I haven't played a wizard yet in my career. Maybe Sam Jackson. Maybe someone else who does no actors had. No. It's like, that's weird, I haven't played a wizard yet. Maybe Sam Jackson, like maybe someone else who does so much quantity. Who's played literally everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, you know,

if you're an actor of a certain stature, you go like, oh, that's interesting, I haven't played a mother before. Sign me up. I haven't played a cop before. You know,

certain things that are just like archetypes, but there are very few wizard movies. Sure. Oh, that is weird. You wanted to play a wizard. And he was like,

I signed on because I'd never played a wizard before. So we quoted that back to him for context, right? Right, right. And we're like, is there any other profession like that that would cause you to sign on just to play that role regardless of what the project was? And we were so ready for him to couch his answer and like, well, you know, it's always about the material and who you're working with and like this and that. But, you know, and he just we said, is there any other job where if that was the title if the character

held that job you would do the film immediately and he without a pause went uh chef submarine captain astronaut which i believe he still never checked those boxes he just did submarine captain he did a film about the uss indianapolis which is the oh jesus uh it's it's what the fucking um uh jaws is based off quince of, where they capsized and all got eaten by sharks. Mario Van Peebles directed a movie. I don't think it's come out yet. That sounds amazing.

Called, I think, USS Indianapolis. That's him and Thomas Jane, I want to say. Give us a better, like, shark submarine attack. Come on. Don't call it USS Indianapolis. Yeah. That sounds great. Okay, so he's checked one of the boxes.

He's checked one of the boxes. He's not been a chef yet. And he certainly hasn't been in space yet. Like, I would watch Burnt with Nicolas Cage. Yeah. I don't know if I want to watch it with Bradley Cooper. No. But with Cage? Yeah. Burnt? Yes. I would also watch Cage do almost anything. Well, sure. Yeah.

Anyway, back to the Cooks fight. Tough Cook. Tough Cooks, they all get shot, but it's established. Steven is now, he's like the rogue man who's, you know, hasn't been, like, found yet, but it's established. Steven is now, he's like the rogue man who hasn't been found yet, and he's going to basically, throughout the movie. It's a diehard situation. Right, he's going to take care of business. He's going to get rid of the mercenaries.

This was that period where it was everyone would pitch diehard on a block. Yeah, it was guy who shouldn't be there that day. But watch out. Steps up to the plate in a contained space. And so then the two agents are captured. Tortured with like an eye. Yeah, there's some dumb thing about- They're going to poke them in the eye, essentially.

Explode their eyeballs. Oh, yeah. Well, not to move backwards. I just want to quickly ask, because then I want to talk about the fucking eyeball thing. But do you think this movie is implying that all chefs and cooks are former navy seals who gave up the life to just focus on something simpler because the fighting skills come in so

quickly and that one guy's fucking portly yeah no he's he's a big guy so the eyeball thing they're threatening the woman from from the fuck couple and he's got this like laser needle that's like they're heating up and he's like the the lens of your eye is going to like. It's going to go right through the lens and it's going to boil your cornea. And you're just like, just say you want to poke him in the eye. Like, is this hard? Like, they're not going to want a poke in the eye by a sharp object. You could do the same thing with a knife.

Yeah, just anything. A finger. But it's like a crazy device. And he's just trying to get them to give him the launch codes, essentially. It's like the two of them have the launch codes. Each have one half of it. Yeah, and they're also then getting all complicated because they're trying to explain how with the codes

you still need other things. Right. And it just gets all muddled and stupid, but you're just basically like, oh, they're going to give the codes away, and they do. Yeah. And then they throw him off a train. Yeah.

Yeah. Off he goes. Brutally. Yeah. It's brutal. Yeah. And so after that, it's just Steven fucking climbing around on top of trains, under trains. It's pared down.

Yes. I mean, that's it. That's it. It's just him fucking up dudes. The bad guys are in a car. They have the earthquake machine. Right. Steven's on the train. dudes. Bad guys are in a car. They have the earthquake machine. Right.

Steven's on the train. Yeah. He's got to get him. And I remember I looked at the time left and I was like, huh, how can they pad this? He's just got to walk like three cars over. So here are a couple things. I mean, going back to this, they don't make bad movies like this anymore. And comparing it to Suicide Squad, right? Yeah.

This movie, on a scene to scene level, so often I'm like, I have no idea what the fuck is happening in the scene. I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, yeah. But the movie is so simple where it's like, even that first chunk where you're like, why is he using this device? Why is it all this? It's like, okay, Bogosian needs to get control of the satellite.

And then once he gets the satellite, it's like, there are two arcs you're following. Right. Bogosian wants to use the satellite to blow everyone up. Yep. Steven Seagal wants to stop him. And that's all you need to fucking know. From the couple that he tortures, we get that he invented the satellite. Right.

And is crazy. Yes. And then he killed himself, but it turns out he faked his own death. Yeah. And we are cutting over to the US military base where they're like, how's the satellite doing today? And they're like, oh's the satellite doing today? And they're like, oh, it seems fine.

Oh, wait a second. It just blew up a Chinese weapons factory or something. Well, he's got that great speech where he's like, why do you want to blow up a manure plant? Right. And he's like, well, that manure plant is the cover for a missile site. You know it, and we know it, and the Chinese know we know it. And you know that we it and you know that we know that they know that we know you know

he keeps going and it is good Bakoshan's good Bakoshan's good I love Bakoshan watching this movie I was like I really want

to get to play a part like this I want to get to play the weaselly fucking piece of shit like the Alan Cumming in Gold Knight it's something about

the hair yeah on a bad guy like a good thick black head of curly hair. Big thick black curly hair. Plus, like, a plaid shirt and, like, tie combo. I can't remember if it's plaid, but, like, sort of colorful

tie shirt combo where you're, like, imagining, like, huh, he, like, picked that out this morning. Like, before he went to, like, hijack a satellite. Like, he thought, like, what am I gonna wear today? And Bogosian was known at this time for being this like you know he was a live wire he was sort of like incendiary and he was

like filled with righteous anger and he was always kind of on like the right side but you apply that to playing a lunatic and it's like this guy makes me uncomfortable because he feels like he's going to pop at any moment you know I mean he was before this yeah I'm looking at his

he wasn't anything except for like talk radio except for the one man show guy he had done all shows and then Oliver Stone adapted talk radio and had him play the part he hasn't yet later he's on Law and Order for a few years he becomes more of like a regular

guy on TV and movies but he's kind of an odd but he was sort of I think... Big in movies at that point, but he was sort of, I think, a big figure. I think like culturally people were talking about him. Yeah, he was...

Because he was kind of a burst onto the scene. He's a good call for a sequel bad guy. I mean, like... But it was kind of... I give him credit. It's a good call,

but it also like at the time was an outside-the-box choice. You know? Sure. I mean, it's almost like if you hired Ira Glass to like...

I don't know if the critics were applauding like, you know? Sure. I mean, it's almost like if you hired Ira Glass to like... I don't know if the critics were applauding like, oh, very good. Yeah, but it still is like, you know. Okay, so then just back to plot, because otherwise, I mean, it's just a bunch of action scenes, right? The stakes are so clear. It's just like

he's got to kill this guy in front of him. Dane is, this is their interference. It's two guys each trying to do a thing. Heigl's in danger. Yeah. And you got Morris Chestnut. We shouldn't discount Morris Chestnut. Well, that's a huge element of this movie. He plays Bobby Zach.

So all I want to just establish is it hits another 80s trope similar to how we just kind of established the gross sexism. Sure, sure. You know, it's the bad guys are wealthy Muslims who want to destroy the Pentagon. Let's just move on. That's a fucking terrible part of that period of time of action movies. That was just such a trope. I mean, it's just, that's what it is.

They have offered Boghossian a billion dollars to make an earthquake onto the Pentagon, which apparently has a nuclear power plant underneath it or something, which is news to me, but that's cool. So there you go. So that's what's happening. And they also- Also, he blows up a Chinese power plant, and he also blows up a plane using the same machine, which really bothered me because it was so, what are you doing, Benny? And he does that for $100 million because some guy's cheating wife is on the plane or

something like that, right? Yeah, you know what's the thing that always kind of takes me out? This is all padding. Right, but that always takes me out in movies like this is when it's like, why did he do this? Well, they offered me $100 million. Where are you going to spend that money? Yeah, excuse me.

What's your plan? You get off the train in Denver, go where and get the money how and spend it on what? What is this? Right, they know you're the guy. and spend it on what? Like, what is this? Right. They know you're the guy. You're the guy who blew up the Pentagon. Right.

Arguably, your only option is move to Baghdad, you know? Move to fucking Mars. Like, they're going to come get you. But that's always the thing. It's not like, oh, you pull off a heist and then you make a lot of money. It's like if you hijack a satellite and the government knows exactly who the fuck you are. That's the thing. At least in movies like

GoldenEye, which is another satellite movie. 96, same basic. There's like this sort of they lay it out where it's like, oh, well everything's going to go down for seven minutes and the money's going to move and no one's going to know what happened. They at least justify like he's doing this in the show. He's like, hey, it's me

the satellite guy. Talk radio. I like to think that this movie influenced Aloha. Oh, militarization of space? Are you kidding me? It's the same fucking plot. Yes, and reckoning with your past. Oh man, that's actually a really good point. It's really similar to Aloha.

Aloha's kind of a remake of Under Siege 2 Dark Territory. It actually is. It actually is. That is true. Oh my god. But there's that thing of like, you just imagine the guy like, $100 million, that's my price, and he gets it and it's like, what are you It actually is. It actually is. Yeah. That is true. Oh, my God. All right. But there is that thing of like, you just imagine the guy like $100 million. That's my price. And he gets it. And it's like, what do you do with the money?

Well, I've always just wanted to settle down, get a nice house where I can relax. Have the government look for you forever. I just want to travel the world. Everyone will be watching you. You're Dane, the man who hijacked a satellite. The Pentagon. Yes. And the power plant underneath

I just always wanted to build My own home theater And I swear to god Yeah That's so funny Oh we gotta talk Morris Chestnut

That's where you were winding up Right right So Morris Chestnut So we Who had just been in Boys to the Hood Boys in the Hood Boys in the Hood

Sorry Did I say Boys to the Hood Is that the sequel To Boys to the Hood That's the sequel Yeah they gotta go back To the Hood Oh my god yeah

Boys to the Hood Which is 91 Uh Uh-huh. And so I guess he was just sort of floating around. He was in the last Boy Scout. He hadn't been in much yet, but I guess he was just, you know, an up-and-coming young actor. I do think they give this character more integrity, and I wonder how much of it is

just Chestnut's performance. He's a good actor. He's got a lot of integrity as a guy. He just projects a lot of integrity, and they try to make him kind of like the, like, dumb, like young, dumb, full of cum, wisecracking dude. But he just has an innate intelligence and a trustworthy face. They mostly avoid... He doesn't... I don't know.

I feel like this sort of hip-hop influence sidekick is a thing in these movies. Yeah. And there's a little of that where he's kind of talking just sort know, talking like, it's just sort of like, I don't know, in like almost like a musical way about like, I got my, you know, but they both, they mostly avoid it. And it sort of becomes that like Seagal mentors him. He doesn't say that anything is like pimped out or whatever. I don't know. Like he doesn't, he doesn't do anything that's too egregious.

Yeah. And they make him pretty smart, you know? I mean, they make him like, I mean, arguably he seems more capable than Seagal. Even when Seagal's trying to teach him, he projects a greater sense of knowledge and confidence. I also like that Seagal actually tries to teach him how to use a gun, whereas any of these movies, you know how to use a gun, and they're like, ah, and it's like, just pull the trigger.

Just squeeze. They don't actually give you any advice. And he's like, okay, so what you're going to want to do is line up your side. I can't remember exactly, but he gives gives like a two minute speech on how to get. And like explains how to like position yourself. Right, right, right. But this is like, I mean, the movie spends, I would argue Dane has more screen time than

Seagal. They spend a lot of time with him. Seagal doesn't have much screen time. This is what I'm kind of getting to, right? Not really. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Dane's definitely the main character. How many lines do you think Seagal has? Like 25? Yeah, I was going to get to 25. Something like that, right? Yeah, Right. Yeah. Dane's definitely the main character. How many lines do you think Seagal has? Like 25? Yeah, I was going to get to 25. Something like that, right? Yeah, 25. Yeah. And it doesn't feel like, oh, that's a cool creative choice.

Like I read that like, you know, Damon and Greengrass when they're doing the Bourne movies trying to keep it. Yeah, they talked about it. Because they're like, he's a man of few words. He speaks louder in actions. This is just like, we have to know there's a cap to how many lines we can give him. Like the audience needs to get one line out of him every five minutes to remember that he's still in the movie.

But the film establishes like a real ensemble. And unlike something like Die Hard where like establishes an ensemble so there's a kaleidoscopic effect and all those characters can pay off. This is like we need to take as much weight off of Seagal's shoulders as possible. The ensemble in Die Hard is brilliant. Unbelievable. It's brilliant. I mean that's why that movie works on top of all the other reasons why it works.

And it feels like the Chestnut character they're almost trying to make him a more weaponized version of Argyle sure which is like

Argyle's like such a good like all the little characters in Die Hard are so well written and like human the reason it works in Die Hard

is when you cut to Argyle or you cut to Reginald Bill Johnson or you know you cut to even the FBI guys who I think are brilliant

like it's so funny how crazy they are. Peter Johnson. You're like, I want to know what's up with these guys. Oh, good. Here's that guy. I was interested in him. Whereas in other movies, you're like, oh, my God.

Can we get back to... But this movie, they cast the supporting cast pretty well. And this speaks to this movie being kind of well-written and certainly well-directed. It's well-directed. Well-written is a stretch. I think it's competently written. Sure. Good job, Matt. But It's well directed. Well written is a stretch. I think it's competently written. Sure. Good job, Matt.

But here's the thing. Like, I mean, well written, I'm giving it the faintest praise in the world, but like compared to Suicide Squad where I'm like, I don't understand what's going on in this scene, let alone what the overarching goal is, you know? Or yeah, or how this connects to the scene before

or the scene following. Any of that. It's like all of this is like, I don't understand what the fuck they're talking about, but I know he's trying to stop the satellite and Bogosian's trying to launch the satellite. And that's all you fucking need to know. The setup to this movie is dumb.

Dumb. But they do five minutes of it and you know exactly what's happening. And nothing else matters. Exactly. Okay, so now a new guy's coming with a knife. Seagal's got to beat him. That's all you need to know.

And in like, you're like, I don't know who they're fucking fighting. I don't know what the ultimate goal is, who they're supposed to trust. Do they like each other you know and i also think like this movie does such a good job of like doing the like let's set up that the bad guys are bad in this like very cliche stock like you know it's it's not artful or elegant but it's like

they get on the train and immediately are like racist to morris chestnuts right they like grope katherine heigl. And it's like, these guys are awful. And Suicide Squad spends so much time like explaining why all of them are sweethearts before they let them get bad

that it's like, well, I know, like the better version of that movie, not to keep on fucking rewriting Suicide Squad, but like let him be bad and then later in the movie reveal like,

oh, he's got a heart. But this movie just like, these guys are really bad. Like you fucking hate them, which is what movies like this need because you want to see them taken down and then you root for them to be like thrown off the train right and then crush their neck snapped oh the guy who's crushed under the train that's pretty good i wanted i i'll admit these movies make you a little bloodthirsty i almost wanted two seconds more of him being crushed by the train yeah you know it cuts a little too fast for me but But there's the thing where they like, you

know, and just, you know, action movies like big like sort of like popcorn movies like this are all about like set up punchline, right? Yeah. It's about like you set something off, you pay it off later. Right. And I was, the group that I used

to do stand up with when I was a kid, a couple years ago I went back and like helped coach the kids. And I was the group that I used to stand up with when I was a kid. A couple of years ago, I went back and like helped coach the kids. And I was explaining and this sort of like I was I hadn't put this into words before I said it. So I was trying to find a way to explain it. And I like now kind of use this as my like overarching philosophy for comedy, but also just for like storytelling and filmmaking in general. If you're trying to make like a functional like, you know know switch switch watch kind of like tight action movie it's like you gotta think of it like juggling and and you're like throwing the ball up in the air and asking the audience to keep track of that ball with the promise that you're

gonna catch it again right and suicide squad throws like so many balls up in the air and then like then catches other balls that you didn't see them throw a boomerang comes down right that shit but this movie it's like okay he gets on the train what's the name uh uh ryback plus one and then you see them in big green letters type in plus one and you're like why are they making such a big point of the plus one because later in the movie when the guys get on the train they're like why is ryback here he must be on vacation who's he with they look at the log they see plus one and they're like it's not his wife you know it has to be a girlfriend sure or like he wouldn't take her on a train you know so then and then they have to

like go and they like interview everyone they cross-reference the names they see the navy seal necklace like it's all set up and everything they ask you to keep track of in your mind which is not a ton but enough but it all pays off none of it like in a way that's impressive no they set like three balls rolling

and then at the end there are three balls for you to catch but in this day and age that feels fucking masterful which is so depressing I know what you're saying yeah it is depressing

do you know what I'm saying like this I know what you're saying like this movie is bad but I look at it now and I'm like this is artful it's like there's spatial geography it's true you understand what the

characters are trying to do even if you don't understand why you understand what they're trying to do and every plot point they set up like the jokes like pay off later you know the characters like are set up as a one-dimensional thing but then they do the one thing they were set up to do like it all fucking like i think that's all true yeah but i think that we should also acknowledge that at one point a mercenary owns opens a door and looks at a pair of women's breasts and then stephen seagal kills him and says it's to die for yeah i think this movie is not good but i think i this is the point i want to keep on reading wait no he goes this is the time for this he's like leaving the like he's already moving on before he says for.

We were saying this. Tis the time for. We were saying this before we started recording. He is the quietest movie star of all time. He's so quiet. And it doesn't feel like an affectation that's cool where it makes you like lean in like Brando. It just feels like he just doesn't know how to project. But yeah, I want to reiterate my like mantra for this movie is they don't make bad movies like this anymore.

No. Or at least not enough. Maybe once in a while. Maybe once in a while those Statham movies will pop. But I go see all those Statham movies and they all feel a little too kinetic for me, a little too overly complicated. I think it's also because Statham popped in movies directed by Guy Ritchie and then Neville Dean and Taylor who are very like commercially, you know, I don't mean commercial

in the box office. And also you're like, their movies look like commercials. And you're like Olivier Megaton's the like Europa Corp thing, which like those movies are super fucking overly kinetic and whatever.

I mean, even, you know what, the Neeson movies actually come closest to this. Like nonstop feels like a Steven Seagal movie. I forgot about the Neeson movies.

The Neeson movies. Some of them are too much, but like. Oh, totally. But the Neeson movies are in their own odd because like Neesonagal movie. I forgot about the Neeson movies. The Neeson movies Some of them are too much but like Oh totally. But the Neeson movies are in their own odd because like Neeson was a serious

so it was like the Charles Bronson of his day or whatever right? It's like this like formerly like serious actor who still will

give a good performance in a movie once in a while but also is just very happy to just phone in the gravitas just like yeah I've got a gun. What am I on?

I'm on a plane? Great. But non-stop fucking works. Non-stop works. Non-stop's like a good- The one where January Jones is- That one sucks. That one's real bad.

Yeah, that one sucks. But once in a while. I've seen all of them. I feel like the Neeson formula is also like, they just spin the globe and they're like, Baku, great. Get him over there. Yeah. He's in Baku. How much do you give us, Baku? Come on. If we're going're like, Baku, great. Get him over there. He's in Baku.

How much do you give us, Baku? Come on, if we're going to film, Liam Neeson. And they're like, I don't know, $10 million. And they're like, great. The Baku story. We're setting it up. What's the story? I don't know.

He's deadly. Well, here's this other thought I have, okay? I think the 90s give rise to the real explosion of parody culture. Suddenly, parodies start getting really, really big in a lot of different platforms, right? And also, people start parodying genre. Not just like, oh, we're doing a parody of Star Wars, but it's like, these are the tropes of this type of movie.

And especially the 90s action movie becomes a thing that everyone makes fun of. You know? And I think like especially now that we're in a climate where like studios are run by like people who used to fucking like be in charge of Six Flags who have no background in storytelling. Like it used to be studios were run by hacks

who at least tried to study storytelling and understood like audiences like it when this happens. And now they're like audiences like it when you have Tweety Bird. Let's put Tweetyety bird on a t-shirt you know like they don't even understand the fundamentals of people like ben hur right that won like 11 oscars let's make another one they just look at the surface level like results but they don't even understand bad storytelling like clunky fucking crayon writ large storytelling branding and they understand franchising they're run by branding experts. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, boy. Movies are depressing. Why are you in that industry? I fucking am retiring. I'm out. I think- Under Siege 3? I'll do Under Siege 3. Great.

I'll play the Bogosian role. I'll play the son of Dane. They'll be on a blimp this time. Yeah. Yeah, what's a slower, less helpful mode of transportation? They're on a barge but the blimp goes above the satellite so they can't

they go into darker territory darkest territory yeah darkest territory I do think there's something where like 90s action movies

got parodied so much that then there was this thing of like oh the audience recognizes all the tropes they recognize the cliches and then yeah you get your

honest trailers well have you guys watched Last Action Hero recently yeah it's weird it's weird I remember being a kid

and being like I hate this movie right right right it's no I mean it's bad but it's like it's a weird

weird movie that's kind of the movie where the bubble breaks because it's like you can't make the movie that's a parody directed by the people who did the thing that we're parodying and starring the bubble breaks because it's like you can't make the movie that's a parody directed by the people who did the thing that we're parodying it and starring the guy.

Exactly. It's like the whole thing sort of eats itself. That's a movie that these days like Andy Samberg would be in or whatever. I don't know. It'd be a Jack Black movie. Jack Black. Yeah, you know. But you get to this point where I think Hollywood becomes so allergic to doing

any of the things that they feel have already been parodied. Like they know our tricks. We can't do that anymore. So they start trying to like avoid all the cliches that have been recognized. But those cliches are kind of like building blocks of storytelling.

It's the rails that you want to be on for these movies. That's the problem like for this kind of movie and you get to them now and you're like I don't even understand what the fuck is going on. Like I can't figure out

what the objective is. The characters are so complicated and contradictory. And it's like, just make it one guy who does one thing. You know, he's got this as a backstory. This is what haunts him. This is what he's trying to do. And the bad guy has one goal. And you want those fucking setups that pay off in, like, the one-liners later.

You want the supporting characters who do the thing. Why Boghossian? Why does he need revenge? Because he needs revenge. Because he wants a hundred million dollars. Yeah. If I'm paying money

to go see this movie, that's what I want out of it. Right. And I feel like too many of these movies, they're like, you know, a very select group of people

who like, in the heyday, were able to heighten this stuff into high art, like John McTiernan, right? Mm-hmm.

But by and large, I like, see a lot of like, you know, Niecy movies or Statham movies where I'm like, you're trying to be

more respectable than you need to be. Just fucking lean into it. Know what you are. Fucking own it. You know? Just, like, own this shit. And Suicide Squad's like,

nah, man, we're fucking, fuck Marvel, like, this and that. And it's like, yeah, but you're not, you're not on the rails. Like, you have to stay on the road. Like, nothing's gonna fucking matter if you're swerving like this. Like, don't understand where we're trying to go.

Under Siege 2, like, sucks and rolls so much simultaneously. Yeah, it's weird. Well, hey, let's, can we, are we, I was going to talk about the Newton.

Oh, please talk about the Newton. Talk about the Newton. Cool. So, we're back in the, we're back in the, like, baggage car area, and Steven, you know, is basically, like,

he's, like, figuring out his, Excuse me, Casey Ryback. Oh, you're right. Ryback's figuring out his approach, what he's going to do. What does he reach into his bag and grab? A motherfucking 1995- Apple.

Apple product called the Newton. Now, kids out there, you probably don't know this. What this was is it was the first tablet device- Yeah, basically, yeah. Where you could write on a little- A little touchpad. A little touchpad. With a stylus.

Right, with a stylus. And it would transfer your handwriting and turn it into typed out words. This was cutting edge technology. Extraordinarily efficient. It was amazing. I mean, I think everybody our age might think of the Simpsons joke, eat up Martha. Yeah. Right? That's it, right? Yeah. Is there any other reference

point for the Newton? No. No. But Apple paid, I'm sure, a little bit of money to get some product placement in there. This is the middle of the Newton. This is like when the Newton is hottest. It launched in like 93 or something. I think this is Apple's like, come on, we got to

make the Newton happen. But if you have seen the Steve Jobs film, you'll know that was actually a giant. It was the last thing that made them bring Steve Jobs back where they were like, oh, we're so broke that we... Right. So he uses that to place a phone call.

It's not really important. It's really just product placement, but damn it, I love it. Yeah. So good. Otherwise, though, I don't know. We don't really need to talk about the plot. It's really just- No.

Bad guys get the same fucking things. He fights the bad guys, kills them one by one. Right. Sometimes he'll snap their necks with his hands. Yeah. Other times he shoots them. Yeah. He's completely unflappable, as we said.

Oh, this was the other thing. I'm sorry. I was trying to get to. He's never scath them. Yeah. He's completely unflappable, as we said. Oh, this was the other thing I'm sorry that I was trying to get to. He's never scathed. Yes. The movie, very smartly, talking about, I think, you know, like,

not well written, but well constructed. I would say that's a differentiation. It's not a good script, but it's well constructed. Sure. And it's certainly well directed.

Like, it looks nice. You have this amazing, Jeff Murphy, great director. Amazing fucking Basil Polidora score, who's the guy who did the Robocop score. And it's not trying to be cool. It's not like a fucking techno breakdown thing

or fucking insane guitar riff switch. It's just this heroic score that makes everything that happens in the movie feel really fucking important and makes Steven Seagal feel more cinematic because if he's just walking around a corner with a gun, he's not really doing anything physically impressive, but the horns swell.

It's like, oh, shit. But there's something to it. There's something that's really arresting about him just walking into a train car. He's compelling. He walks with purpose. Literally just standing there. And yeah, I like it.

Even though Mike Ovitz making him a movie star was totally like a horrible, power hungry, like, you know, mad move on his part. You kind of understand how if you were in a class with him, you'd be like, this guy's got something. This guy's got a presence. Yeah. Yeah. He's not like necessarily charismatic, but there's like some kind of vibe there that's

kind of compelling. I mean, we're spending a lot of screen time just looking at Steven climb into compartments, like be on top of the train, like hiding underneath, like not even just fighting bad guys, just all that stuff. It's a lot of looking. But you're like excited. You're like, oh man. But this movie also sets up a lot of satellite groups because I think they know he can't

carry that much. And I think under siege, but the first one. Also, he's a famous prima donna, right? He's like... It's difficult to work with. Widely reported the worst person who ever hosted SNL. Like, Lorne Michaels, who doesn't speak ill of people in public, has spoken ill of him in public.

He doesn't want to do anything. The story is at the first pitch meeting, they said, they always go, it's the host, like, do you have any sketches that you... Do you have any ideas? He goes, yeah, yeah, I got an idea for a sketch. It's a woman who gets raped, and then she goes into her therapist and is, like, talking about being raped, and then the therapist rapes her as well, and then he's like, that'll be $400. Oh, my God.

Are you serious? I swear to God. It's in Live from New York. That's the sketch he pitches. Oh, God. It ends with a joke about therapists costing a lot of money. Oh, my God. Live from New York

written by James Andrew Miller and Tom Shales and James Andrew Miller just wrote a new book about CAA which is predominantly about Ovitz which is apparently

really good and I want to read it. But this movie smartly like I think A they were like it's going to be difficult to work with him so we should try to like

utilize Well I think that was probably the Seagal rules right? He's going to want to do two hours a day. Yeah. If he's climbing

through like some you know air shaft he's going to want to do two hours a day. Yeah. If he's climbing through like some, you know, air shaft, he's going to want to do 30 minutes that day. He can't do long take. It's got to be quick action. So let's just, let's pad it with a lot of other things. Give him very little dialogue. Yeah. Because even like that scene where he goes to the bar and he sees like Heigl sitting there and he goes like, what's that young woman drinking? And she's like, that girl there with the phony ID and the tonic and like lime. So it's such a cute scene, right? And he's like what's that young woman drinking and she's like that that girl there with

the phony id and the and the tonic and like lime it's actually a cute scene right yeah oh great but like the joke is that like i think the joke is that she tried to buy booze which is crazy i mean she was like 10 years younger than the illegal drinking right but i think the joke is also that when he's going to the bar it's gonna look like he's hitting on the woman offering to buy another drink and then it's like so like reversal it's he's the concerned uncle looking out for her and then he goes and sits down with her after they've done that sort of like twist like reversal thing and then just feels like he wants to fuck her face like the whole conversation he has with her is so sexually charged it is weird yeah it's weird um but but this movie very smartly is like let's

set up as many satellite characters as we can so So even though he's kind of training Morris Chestnut, Morris Chestnut is functioning independently for a lot of the movie. He's solo almost immediately. So you'll see him training him. After the gun explanation. And then Morris Chestnut will go on his own mission, take down a couple of guys. And then at the end of that, when he's done the work, then Seagal shows up and he's like, good work.

And then the next scene, Morris Chestnut's alone as well. And then Seagal goes, hey, Morris, good work. You know, it's like, and then they set up Heigl. Heigl's got a whole business with a mace. We got a lot of bad guys. Kurtwood Smith back in the office. There's the nerdy guy back at the office. Wait, do you remember his line? Yes.

What's the line about he's like, you know what they say about space? It's got a lot of room. Remember that? Like really, really long. And it's like, where he's like, that's the other part I'd love to play in. Where's the satellite? And the guy's like, space is a lot of room remember that like really bad really long and it's like where he's like that's the other part I'd love to play in that where's the satellite

and the guy's like space is a lot of room and he's like what did you just say and he's like oh well what I said was that's why they call it space because it has a lot of room

and everyone's like okay anyway and you're like wait why was this included and at the end of the movie this guy who's had almost nothing to do they like give him the choice they're like you have to choose to the missiles got to go somewhere

we either kill like this many people or this many people and they like make him like the moral center of the film but it is like they're just like okay let's let's like divide our stuff right there is and let's get other like real deal actors who can carry it so go gets on top of the train a couple times there's this brief interlude where he's not on the train. Yeah. Where he, like, drives a car. Yeah. I wasn't paying a ton of attention as to why this all happened.

He's, like, thrown from the train. I mean, I think the only- Gets in a car, gets back on the train. The only thing we should really establish, like, otherwise for the plot is that the Dark Territory, and really it comes- Oh, we don't need to establish that. It comes halfway in, and really all it is is that the mercenaries have set this up that after they explode the Pentagon, they're going to board a helicopter, and they've rerouted the train into heading towards Dark Territory where it will collide with an oil train. And they can't communicate with train dispatchersers so that's why the collision will happen.

And the oil train has like 100 billion million tons of oil and so flammable. Like it's gonna be the biggest explosion you ever saw. Oh, it's good. And then it does collide with those two trains that do collide on top of a bridge. And it's a great practical, like two models

crashing and then you have like, you have It's a little hard to tell how Sigal resc, like, two models crashing. And then you have, like, you have. It's a little hard to tell how Sigal rescues everyone, but he does. He gets them on two cars and he, like, separates the cars somehow. Yeah, he breaks the cars apart so that the mercenaries are all just on the front half of the train and everyone captive is, like, you know, saved. And then him and Chestnut jump back on because they have to kill the rest of the bad guys. Of course, which they do.

And they do. He has the big Akito fight with Everett McGill, which is a lot of him going like, swirling his arms around. He's the only action star who works better in close-ups than Wides. Because everyone else, you want to see their body moving, and Seagal, you just want to see his hands close to his face. It is amazing when he's doing it. Like because you've just never seen anything like it. It's captivating. It is. Even though it's so unorthodox in terms of

an action scene. It's like not only just from the stories I've heard about him right and his behavior as a real person. He's a problem. He's a problem. He's a real problematic human being who is notoriously a piece of shit in any way that someone could be a piece of shit. But watching this movie, and the character he's playing is the antithesis of what I like in a movie character.

I like vulnerability, you know? I like emotional growth. I like someone with an inner life. None of this. None of this happens. But I'm like, can't stop watching this guy. I don't intellectually like him at all, but it's like for some reason I'm compelled. I don't really like Seagal either, and I've never been a fan, and I

haven't seen most of his movies. And I enjoyed watching this. I don't know that I'm going to go watch a bunch of other Seagal movies tomorrow. I definitely want to watch Under Siege 1. Yeah, I'd like to see that sometime. After watching this, I want to see Under Siege 1. Yeah, I guess I should see it too. Interesting that you never saw it. I guess like USA or whatever didn't own the rights to

one. They just had two. How many times do you think It was like how U.S. Marshals would be on TV all the time. You're like, show me a fugitive. I have to say, I've probably seen this,

not as many as Fletch, but like, I feel like I remember definitely being at friend's house and bringing this and easily like 15, 20 times. Yeah, that's great. So good.

And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think it's just just he saves the day, man. He fucking saves the day. The way he takes on Bogosian, Bogosian's like, I got the thing. There's no way you can stop me. I'm going to set the thing off. He's got a laptop. We should also say that at one point he rigs up a bomb out of a pager

and a cocktail shaker filled with lighter fluid. Yeah. That's good. The bomb, essentially, there's a chef of explosives. Yeah. And that's good. And coconut oil. And the bomb, essentially, there's a lot of time devoted to that. And then he just throws it at one guy and the guy is set on fire. And it's one of those classic old stuntman things

where the guy's on fire and he wanders into three different rooms on fire. It's great. I love it. He falls down the stairs on fire. It's good. But yeah, Bogosian's got the laptop and something else. Yeah, and he's like- I can't remember.

I'm going to, like, you know- You can't stop me. Yeah. Like, there's no way you can stop me. And Steven Seagal shoots the laptop and him simultaneously. And he goes, oh, I didn't think of that. I was like, that's very obvious. But anyway-

Yeah, maybe you shouldn't be holding the laptop over your heart. But then Bogoschan does come back climbs onto the helicopter ladder there's like a great 90s like shot where it's like these model trains

and a model bridge and then he's like superimposed over it but like old school non CGI ways yeah it's great yeah and then

they get off the train he like hugs Heigl and then they cut to Seagal's now wearing his military uniform, which I don't know how much he wears in the first movie, but that's the poster image for the first movie. It is the poster image, and there is an Under Siege 2 poster that is essentially a ripoff of the first.

That's almost the exact same poster, just with the train. Except there's a train instead of a boat. Now, the one poster I know, which was the more, is he's hanging onto the train, and he's got a gun. And He one poster I know, which was the more, is he's like hanging onto the train and he's got a gun. And Heigl's behind him. Yeah. And yeah,

and then they cut to this and they're at the cemetery and they look at the gravestone of his dead brother. Right. And they like just stand there and then the credits start, like it's an immediate out.

But this song plays, right? Do you know where I'm going with this? Do you know about this song? So I'm going to play some of this just so we can hear it, but if you could track in, add in in post. Sure. In post. If you could add in the first 15 seconds of the song, okay?

Because I need to talk about, so the image we're seeing on screen is Steven Seagal having just fought a bunch of terrorists on a train at the gravestone of his brother. Okay? Okay, so she drops the flowers off at the grave. You see the

gravestone. It says James A. Ryback. Yeah, his brother. Yeah. They hug. The first line is, Oh, brother. The song starts with Oh, brother and very immediately becomes about a metaphorical train that has left the station.

So I was like, this is the most fucking on-the-nose song of using all the buzzwords from the film, especially the last five minutes, right?

Where the fuck did they find this song? You know, like, did they reverse engineer the movie from the song? Did they get someone to write the original

song? So I watched through the end credits because I'm like, I gotta figure out what the backstory of this song is. Written and performed by Steven Seagal.

Are you kidding me? I am not kidding you. I did not know that. That's awesome. First of all, dude's got a decent voice. Yeah. Credit where credit's due. Oh, bro.

Sounds a little bit like Bob Segal. Yeah. Bob Segar. Bob Segar. His singing voice is inarguably better than his speaking voice. What? Yeah. What do you mean?

Come on. After the train's gone? Yeah, but he sings this song about his fucking brother going on the train to heaven. I wonder if Steven Seagal has a real brother who went on the train to heaven. I wonder. I wonder if he has full albums. What if he sat down with 23-year-old Matt Reeves and was like,

I want you to write about my brother. He died. That's just so emblematic of the culture of like, fuck, we gotta let Stephen write a song. Stephen's only gonna do the movie if we write a song for him. I mean,

as we said, or maybe we didn't say it on mic, but you know, this was the end of Stephen Seagal's Hollywood stardom. Oh, yeah. He makes more movies

and he has this brief resurgence with Exit Wounds and Half Past Dead where he's in movies that star like black leads. Like he's the only white lead. It was surrounding him with hip-hop stars. Quote-unquote urban or gritty,

like Joel Silver produced crime movies. Right, which is a weird zone to put him in. Odd zone to put him in. But Exit Wounds did well, Half Past Dead didn't, and then he immediately went back to doing home directivity. Half Past Dead, which had the greatest title of all time, unfortunately, was terrible and didn't do well. And re-teamed him with a chestnut.

It did re-team him with a chestnut. He picked a chestnut off the tree. Although chestnut's the villain in Half-Bastard. But yeah, and then that's it. He does direct-to-DVD movies. He does a reality show about him being a cop. Yeah, which got in trouble after he was sued, but then I think the lawsuit was dropped.

He's been sued many times for sexual harassment and stuff like that. Yep, yep. Even the big one, rape. He's a notorious jerk. I believe. He's a bad dude, it seems. Allegedly. I think his ex-wives only have awful

things to say about him. Many ex-wives, including Kelly LeBrock. He had an energy drink called Steven Seagal's Lightning Bolt. And I remember that on the soup back in the day that would be a running joke is that when Joel McHale got stressed out it would float in

on a string and some cheesy quote unquote Asian music would play like a gong or whatever and he'd be like oh Steven Seagal's lightning bolt like mystic Asian experience flavor thank you. Yeah it was very funny. Anyway. He also

owns the single worst hair piece in Hollywood. He is the number one worst. It's insane. He's also very close with Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia, who he has appeared with at events many times and has praised his leadership. And he was never in shape, but he's real big now. He's gotten big. Yeah. Anyway, so, you know, it was a swan song for Seagal.

Now, Jeff Murphy, I do want to shout out Jeff Murphy. When I was in college, I took a course called New Zealand Cinema. I took it because I wanted to date someone who was taking the course. Hey now. Humble brag. Indeed. She's now married. She just got married.

Humble brag. Congrats to her. But also, I guess, I mean, I seemed like kind of a goof off course anyway. New Zealand Cinema. Yeah. And, you know, we watched movies like Once Were Warriors and Heavenly Creatures and the Piano, like, you know, movies. And then three movies from the 80s by this guy, Jeff Murphy, who was like the first director

they ever had, basically. He made this movie called Goodbye Pork Pie in 81. Good title. It's a delightful little road chase movie, basically like a cute little chase movie. Utu, which is like about like colonial britain in new zealand and the war with the maoris that's really good okay and then in 80 85 he makes this movie called the quiet earth about a man who wakes up on a planet that's completely empty of people that is brilliant it's like a great a plus sci-fi movie seriously

he's great and then he comes over to holly Hollywood and they just, I guess they foist him onto genre movies. Yeah. Like he made, was it Young Guns 2? He made Young Guns 2, yeah. And Fortress 2 Reentry. He made Free Jack. Yeah. Which is, that's with Emilio Estevez, I think.

I believe so. I believe so. Ooh, and Anthony Hopkins. Ooh, this looks good. Let's watch it. This movie, it has a certain formal class to it, though. The guy clearly knows how to construct a movie. He does.

I think it's too bad that he never got to have a serious Hollywood career, but he was a journeyman and he made some cool stuff. Can we play the box office game? Yes, we can. July 14th, 1995. So, Seagal movies, if you look, they often would come out in like April or October.

And that was really in the days when the summer was very constrained from like the end of May to the beginning of August. So he was, you know, he was more of your, in your lulls. You know, you'd put your Seagal movie out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is right in the middle of summer. Right. It opened at number two with $12.6 million. Not bad.

It eventually made 50 domestic and 104 total worldwide totally fine 60 million dollar budget i mean not great but yeah i think a little bit of a disappointment because the first one was so big but not bad so number one is a film that's been in the box office three weeks okay and is a great movie live action or animated? Live action. I always have to ask that first. Oscar nominated. Oscar nominated for Best Picture? Yes, among others.

So this is for 1995. I saw it in theaters. I've probably seen it a hundred times because it's on TV all the fucking time. Forrest Gump? Nope. 95, not 94. That's 94? Yeah, Forrest Gump is 94. Yes. Oh, and 93 is Jurassic Park and...

No, Schindler's List. Okay, so 1995... But same lead actor. Oh, interesting. Okay, so wait, 1995 is Toy Story. That's true. I'm just trying to reverse engineer from there, okay? 1995, the first Toy Story comes out that November,

but it's tom hanks in a film from 1995 it's not a rom-com it's not for best picture why why am i not so philadelphia is earlier that's love this movie oh man fuck what is all right should i tell you no no no don't tell me let's go down to three i'm gonna i want to I want to sit on the hang. Three is a bad rom-com. Bad, bad, bad. You hate it. I have no opinions on it except that it's bad. I don't hate it.

It's shitty. I think it's a remake of a French movie. It stars a British actor who is hot, hot, hot. It's a Hugh Grant movie? It's a Hugh Grant movie. It's a remake of a French movie. Is it Nine Months? Correct.

Okay. Which is the plot of Nine Months literally is just a man gets a woman pregnant. Takes about nine months. What's he going to do? Yeah. Chris Columbus, Julianne Moore, right? You know, like. And Robin Williams.

Robin Williams pops up in that one. I heard Chris Columbus on some podcast. Because that was his follow up to Mrs. Doubtfire, which at that time was like the ninth highest grossing movie in history. Like Mrs. Doubtfire was fucking colossal and he in this interview was like we were testing better in test screenings than mrs doubtfire everyone thought it was gonna be a bigger hit than mrs doubtfire and then hugh grant got caught with like divine brown and it ruined the movie it was right then i was like okay that definitely didn't help you like that was the wrong no one was excited for there was no for Nine Months. There was no way Nine Months was going to outgrow Mrs. Doubtfire. Come on.

Okay, so Nine Months is number three. Number four? Number four is an R-rated sexy sci-fi thriller. Number four is an R-rated sexy sci-fi thriller. It's not a sequel. It's a first. Not a sequel, although sequels were made. Species.

Species. Oh, fuck yeah. Forrest Whitaker. Is Ben Kingsley in that? Yeah. Yeah. Natasha Henstridge. Natasha Henstridge.

Yeah, okay. Number five is the big Disney animated movie of the summer. So, 95, The Storm of Pocahontas? Correct. Cool. I'm doing pretty well on this one, actually. I'm surprised, yeah. But you don't have number one.

Okay, so 95, Hanks. Why am I not fucking thinking of this? So, Toy Story comes out that year, and he's on top of the world, because by the time Toy Story, that's the whole thing. Stop thinking about Toy Story. It's not going to help you. No, but this is why it is helping me, because the narrative on Toy Story was they hired him before he'd even gotten his first Oscar nomination. So when they

hired him, they thought they were, I'm sorry, he'd gotten big before he'd won his first Oscar. So they at the time were like, oh, he's like a good comedy actor, and then the time between when they hired him on Toy Story and when it came out, he became like the biggest movie star. Right. OK. And so I know that they like the narrative, as they always said, in between when we hired him on Toy Story and when it came out, he had Forrest Gump.

He had Philadelphia. They always cite like the couple of big ones. It's a fucking huge movie. It's a huge movie. People are a huge movie. It's a huge movie. People are probably screaming at us right now at home. What?

Give me the genre. It's a drama. It's a real life movie. It's based on something that really happened. Is it like a war movie you think? No.

It's not Saving Private Ryan. No. It's based on a real thing. I mean if I tell you the real genre you're going to know. Yeah. No don't.

Don't. Don't. Don't. Is it a director he had worked with before or would work with again later? Definitely works with him multiple times later. I can't remember if he'd worked with him before. No, he had. He had. He'd worked with him.

He works with this director a lot. Okay, so it's not Bobby Z. No. And it's not Spielberg. No. Who else does he work with? And it's not Romantic Comedy. He works with this director a lot.

And it gets on me for fucking best. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I am the biggest fucking idiot in the world. Of course the film is Apollo 13. Yes, that is correct. Of course. A Ron Howard film. Of course.

A great movie. Yes. With great stars. Of course. A great story. Of course. Houston, we have a problem. Yeah.

I always forget that he got nominated for that. Hanks? Yeah. Was he? I can't actually remember. I think he was. Yeah. I'm not actually sure that he was.

I think he was, and certainly the actress who played his wife was. Kathleen Quinlan was nominated for Best Supporting Actress. I think Hanks was. Ed Harris was nominated for Best Supporting Actor and didn't win in a travesty. Right. He was incredible in that movie. Sinise's pretty good, too. Sinise's good.

Bacon. You always got to put a little bacon on top. Side of bacon. Not side. good too Sinise is good, bacon side of bacon sure, topping of bacon who else is in that? lots of great character actors and now it's time for one final segment of tips for watching The Tick on Amazon Prime

okay folks, it's the final crunch by the time this is coming out we're probably in the last week of it being on Amazon Prime so if you watched it, it's the final crunch. By the time this is coming out, we're probably in the last week of it being on Amazon Prime. So if you watched it, that's great. If you tweet about it, that's great. Certainly feel free to watch it again. But here's the big thing, because some of the messaging hasn't been as clear

on the website about this as it could. If you go to amazon.com backslash pilot season, the main header banner image will have a link that says click here to take the survey. The survey takes two minutes and that is a very, very helpful way to support the show. And if you click on the tick from there

and it only works on a computer you can't do it off if you got an Amazon app on some sort of device. I did the survey on my PlayStation. There's both the survey you can do. Oh, interesting. I did. Yeah. Interesting. I had heard contrary things but David might just be a technical genius. I watched the tick on my PlayStation

and then it presented me with the survey and I did it. Okay. Well, if you go to Amazon.com backslash pilot season, it'll be right there. You can take the survey. It's very clearly marked and then also if you click on the tick itself and scroll down, there is a space where you can do like customer reviews as if it is a broom that you bought from Amazon. And giving us a star rating helps.

You don't have to write anything or you can just write thumbs up, no bits, pro smits, whatever you want to do. That's the end of this segment. I kept it short and sweet. But thank you all for. The tick is great, guys. I'm very proud of it. I'm very relieved that people seem to like it. And as someone who still has not learned to not read the comments

and is reading literally everything that everyone's writing about the show, it is very heartening to me to see how many blankies are coming out and supporting the show. I'm seeing a lot of names I don't even recognize from our Twitter and stuff posting about the show in different places or in the reviews, making sort of subtle blank check hat tip references, which I really appreciate and thank you. Da da da da da da da da The Tick's great. It came out

and then I went to Connecticut. My girlfriend has, her family has a home in Connecticut that has no internet or wifi or anything. I have like a little phone signal. You were jonesing to watch it. And so I had the whole weekend people being like, Tick's great, love The Tick. And I was just sitting there. And a lot of people were tweeting at you going like,

David's being suspiciously quiet. Are you going to review the Tick? Yeah. Of all people. And I'm like, don't worry, guys. I'm going to review the Tick. I mean, like, in a tweet. I can't review it for the Atlantic.

Wait a second. Yeah. Wait a second. Do you hear something? Oh, my God. Really? We're doing this? Do you think he'd make a good burger?

It's the burger report. Yes, he would. Now, I told you guys this two weeks ago that I had a good burger report, and I said, please remind me because it's really big, and I don't want to give any spoilers. And then you forgot to remind me. Totally forgot. Sorry.

So this is coming like a couple episodes late, but I have a good one. Now, I started preparing a presentation for this burger report that I gave up on halfway through. I really wanted to pump it out because it's been a while since I scooped one myself, and I wanted to make it a little theatrical. But I started working on this, and then I forgot it, so let me see how much I can wing this, okay? Okay. this okay okay how does a podcast co-host actor from drafts day comedian dropped in the middle of a schnippers times square burger location searching for famous find one to put on his podcast okay so i don't know you went to the schnippers on 8th and 41st. That's what you're saying. Let's zoom ahead to later in the song.

Okay? Go on. Who did he see? Lin-Manuel Miranda. Uh-huh. Did you talk to him? It was Lin-Manuel Miranda. And there's a patty in between two buns on his tray. On his tray. So I clearly reverse engineered it from that. I came up with the chorus. I thought that was good.

I started writing it and then it was too hard. It's going to be stuck in my head all week now. Lin-Manuel Miranda. His name was Lin-Manuel Miranda. There's a patty in between two buns on his tray, on his tray. So yeah, hot scoop. I saw Lin-Manuel Miranda throw out a burger. He threw it out?

He didn't like it? He was mostly done with it but I just saw him disposing of the track. Lee Manuel no one was bugging him? No it was amazing. It's interesting

because I feel like I've seen him tweeting like guys you know I'm glad you like the show and I'm glad you like me but like it's getting a little real. Like you guys are being

a little freaky. I'll say this so He has cut his hair though. And shaved his face. Yeah so that's a big deal. And he looks much younger and he looks pretty different and I'm He's such a sweetie face. Yeah, so that's a big deal. And he looks much younger and he looks pretty different.

He's such a sweetie pie. I'm, you know, obviously a notable, like, you know, a skilled famous spotter. But even I had to do, like, a triple take to make sure it was him. And then when I sort of was looking at him being like, I think that's him, he made eye contact with me and was like, oh, fuck, is this guy going to come up and, like, sing this song to me? You know, I could tell that he was, like, I'm trying to be inconspicuous. come up and sing the song to me. You know, I could tell that he was like, I'm trying to be inconspicuous. But I did, in fact, see Lin-Manuel Miranda at Schnippers throwing out the remains of a burger.

Yeah. I could not identify which burger it was. I want to say it was maybe the Schnippers Classic or the Old Fashioned. I go there before I see screenings. Yes. A lot at the Regal Ewok or the AMC 25. I have a tradition

with my friend Alex Perlin where we go to see a movie at one of those two theaters almost every weekend and get lunch at Schnipper's beforehand. And so I go to Schnipper's, I'd say at least three times a month and have been for months

being like, gotta see a FEMO at some point. And it finally happened. I saw Lin-Manuel Miranda eating a burger. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. The Burger Report. Yes.

We did it. It's fucking back, baby! We got it. And always, please send in your Burger Report. Please send in your Burger Report. Yeah, here's the thing.

I mean, we've run out. When did you talk to Lin-Manuel Miranda? He was leaving. I was trying to Lin-Manuel Miranda he was leaving I was trying to go see a screening of what was I going to see I don't know some fucking movie

who fucking gives a shit no I'm interested well it would have been at this point this would have been like three weeks ago so the last movie I saw with my friend

was Sausage Party but before that how was that did you like Sausage Party I thought it was okay I haven't seen it there's no joke in the movie

that is funnier than the concept of the movie existing you know like I walk out i'm like ha ha ha ha that movie was made you know like that's the funny part is that people had to work really hard to make that movie trying to think it's okay war dogs is okay i wish you'd seen it with me yeah there's little bits and pieces to it where you're like ah well i was invited so well you i'm sorry you could i, I'm sorry. You could, I had to see it Thursday night to review it. I mean, you just said, you said, I wish you had seen it with me. It's like, that was, ball was in your court.

I was a bit of a chore seeing War Dogs. I wasn't, like, pumped to see War Dogs. I was out of town last Thursday, too. I mean, I couldn't have gone. All right, well, fuck you. But I just still, I mean, it's the thought that counts. I saw The Light Between Oceans this week. Oh, how's that?

It's okay. Yeah? It's okay. Yeah. It's okay. I also saw Obama Date, the movie, which is very cute. Yeah. South Side with you.

Can you imagine how weird it must be to be Barack and Michelle and watch that movie? Especially because the guy who is playing Obama looks so much like him and is doing such a perfect impression. Yeah. It's probably a little creepy. Yeah. I'm sure they won't see it, but even to think about the fact that that movie exists. I don't think they'll see it immediately. I don't think there's any way they don't eventually see it in their lives.

The curiosity. I mean, could you imagine if there was a movie in theaters about your first date with your now wife? Yeah. How would you not see that movie at some point? They're going to, like, fucking watch it on Redbox, like, five years from now. They're going to be like, we should. Do you think their kids will watch it? kids will watch it no question i have no

doubt that sasha malia will see it in theaters with their friends and lie and say that they didn't see it the perverse like curiosity has to be off the fucking charts on that anyway so there's that's yeah that's a goodberg report the movie i saw it was people like star trek beyond yeah people love hamilton you liked star trek beyond Hamburger. You're on the side of good, right? Yeah, it's really good. What a great movie. Yeah. Once again, a movie that's functional.

And I don't mean that in a backhanded way. That's a movie, right, that's old-fashioned. Yeah, that's pretty classical. And knowing that they had, from the moment they started conceiving the script to the moment it came out,

they had 17 months because they had to hit a specific date. It's crazy the movie is that good. I know. And you get the sense. And also that they locked Simon Pegg, who's obviously a good writer but is in the movies, in a room, in like a cabin with Doug Young,

who's like a screenwriter who had written a spec that Abrams liked. And they were like, write us a thing. All we need is that the Enterprise crashes. Yes. And they would just sit is that the Enterprise crashes. Yes. And, you know, they would just sit there and, like, watch old original series episodes. And, like, it's crazy that that worked. But I even, I listened to this whole interview with Justin Ling, who is my boy. I love Justin Ling.

And he said, like, it was because those big set pieces take so long to conceptualize that he needed to decide what kind of set pieces they had before they even started writing. Yeah. So he was like, I want a scene where the Enterprise gets taken down. And then was like, you guys have to figure out a way to write that in because I need people pre-visiting that now. Yeah. Yeah.

If that movie had had like six more months to gestate, it would actually be a full out masterpiece. Like I think it'd be perfect. But I think it almost- As it is, it's like really solid and fun. I think it works as a lean, mean little action movie that's fun. How episodic is it? Exactly. It's just like, that's exactly what I wanted from Star Trek Into Darkness was mean, little action movie that's fun. I like how episodic it is.

That's exactly what I wanted from Star Trek Into Darkness was just, now here's an adventure. Can they just go on an adventure? Go on adventures. They don't have a TV show. Go on adventures. Can I not see a fucking movie about how government is rotting from the inside out? I don't need that. It's fun, and guess what? They got lucky.

They cast that movie, this fucking franchise, so beautifully. They did. And the iconography of this movie is so great. Even if you're not someone like me who was raised on Star Trek, that anytime you have a wide shot of the whole fucking group and all these great actors, it feels like you're watching

the best movie in the world. It's true. The other thing that's special versus the X-Men franchise is they cast people who didn't get that big later. They're all doing fine, but Carl Urban is going to come back for your movie. No one has become too

big for the franchise and it felt like pine and quinto were gonna do that exactly the only guy who's remotely a star is pine and even pine is like not a huge star like none of his things have overshadowed star trek and like whereas with x and it immediately became like oh we have to make a sequel fuck they're all gonna want 50 million dollars like what are we gonna do you want an oscar now storm has to like the the the balance of the characters here's my one major complaint about this film in our little mini so discussion

love it of Star Trek Beyond at the end of an episode that already was too long I wish they had given Zoe Saldana one thing to do yeah they don't give her much

they give her fucking nothing to do in that movie and I spent the first 75% going like wow Cho and Saldana who are probably my two favorite actors in the cast

love them love them I love both of them so much like oh man they're giving them nothing to do and then Cho at least has like the sequence where he has to pilot the ship and he's like a fucking badass but like Saldana literally has nothing to do in the film she's captured and that's it I know it sucks

it sucks she's great I think it's also because they wanted to have the new female hero the alien Jaya or Jaya, whatever her name is. J-Law. J-Law. And so. And she's really good.

She's good. I like that character. I think Sophie Buscella, I like a lot. I do think. Cut into everyone else's hero time. But yeah, go on.

No, just to bring everything full circle, you know, it's not quite the same thing. but there is like, that's sort of a testament to like, the state of movie stardom now, where it's like,

you have Zoe Saldana is in like, three of the four biggest sci-fi franchises and like isn't really independently a movie star like she's ahura she's natiri and she's gamora yeah the only major sci-fi franchise she's not in is star wars i have to imagine they'll rope her in at some point because she's such like sci-fi geek royalty at this point you know but it's like she's good at it she's gotten one vehicle on her own she's got columbiana which is like she's such like sci-fi geek royalty at this point. She is. You know? She's good at it. She's got one vehicle on her own. She's got Columbiana, which is like, she's good at it. It's like they didn't give her another shot.

Like these people don't really have that. She shouldn't have spent so much time making a movie about Nina Simone. That was a mistake. Yeah. But also like Pine is like Kirk. He's around. But his things outside of that don't.

I need to see Hell or High Water. Oh, I need to see that too. Anyway, this has been another installment of movies that David and Griffin are debating going to see this afternoon. Thank you all for listening. Yep. To our episode about Under Siege 2. Yeah, thanks

for indulging us. What's this episode gonna be called? Oh, yeah. Under Pod 2 Dark Casting? Cast Territory? Yeah yeah like like what is this called yeah i think that i think that's under pod two cast territory yeah right or or dark cast i put under pod deej no that's stupid uh i just figured out what that is yeah that's like a horrifying frankenstein that ben tried to create and it like died on the table it sounded like a Hungarian dish

under padi can I get the fried padi please with a side of applesauce no that first title is great we don't have to think about it too much well tune in next week when we'll be kicking off our James Cameron

miniseries which we haven't named yet because we're recording these episodes out of order I'm excited though it's gonna be great what are we gonna call it ooh baby get ready we'll do it

Twitter Paul our boy Pat Reynolds who's now doing our artwork god it's a fucking masterbook we've already hyped it up but god it's madness

get ready you folks are gonna cum it is a look into the eye of madness yes that's what it is and sometimes madness is beautiful no it is it's twisted and beautiful but yes Get ready. You folks are going to cum. It is a look into the eye of madness. Yes. Yes, that's what it is. And sometimes madness is beautiful.

No, it is. It's twisted and beautiful. But yes, thanks to Pat Reynolds for the artwork. Thank you to Pat. Thanks again to Lee Montgomery for our theme song, as always. And Ben. Oh, yeah, Ben. And as always, anything is being shot.

Anything being shot. That's it. This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.