Blank Check with Griffin & David - Vanilla Sky with Richard Lawson

Episode Date: July 22, 2016

Richard Lawson (Vanity Fair) returns to Blank Check this week to discuss 2001’s Vanilla Sky. But just how blue collar is actor Timothy Spall? Does Tom Cruise’s character, the media magnate, also know director Steven Spielberg? Does your body make a promise when you sleep with someone? Together, they examine Penelope Cruz’s crossover performance, Cruise’s acting while masked, living in a post-Shrek America, and bucket hats.

love hate dreams life work play friendship sex podcasts wow there you go that is the tagline for the movie vanilla sky the official tagline the official tagline is love hate dreams life work play friendship sex with no spaces and with a little or there are not periods between absolutely not uh hi everybody i'm griffin newman i am david sims this is the podcast called blank check with griffin and david uh colon we podcast okay said in that voice i don't know who that guy is i'm going through a psychological freefall uh we're the two friends hashtag the two friends um until brock obama uh relents to our campaign to have him join as the third pal. Yeah, but he would be the third pal.

He'd be the third pal. And this is a podcast where we talk about filmmakers who have success early on and are given some number of blank checks in Hollywood to keep on making movies their way and what happens. Very often they spiral out. This is a sort of a fulcrum movie for the filmmaker we're currently talking about, who is Cameron Crowe. Yes.

And the movie we're discussing today is Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. The 2001 picture. So just to put you in a headspace, we're in a post-Shrek landscape. Shrek has come and changed the game. But also, you should introduce our guest. Oh, yeah.

I just thought the Shrek, it was important to set the table with the Shrek thing. Wait, we're talking about Shrek before we talk about our guest? We have a very special guest here today. I keep pointing to him. He's a returning guest. Yes. One of the few we've had on this show. Yes.

His last appearance on the show, a blockbuster. It's a great one. Was the Vanilla Sky of podcast episodes. It was huge. But much anticipated. Yes. Yeah. You may know him from Vanity Fair, from Little Gold Man the Podcast, and from his appearance

on the Lady in the Water episode of Pod Night Shamacast. In ascending order. Ladies and gentlemen, Richard Lawson. Hey guys. He's here. Thanks for having me again. I sort of begged I think both of you to be on this particular well at first I wanted to do Zoo. I was going to say initially you were a Zoo man.

You want to buy a Zoo. I wanted to buy a Zoo but then I bought one and realized it's a shitty investment. And that Scarlett Johansson doesn't love you. No, I never will. And now I'm doing this one because I have a lot more of a

personal connection to this movie. Interesting. Twist. So last time I did the funny jokey Lady in the Water one. Which I'll say is

genuinely one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. I just listened to it again and I was telling Richard, we compare Tova Felcher to the Lorax.

Which was such a good bit. It's right out of nowhere. I really think, you know, if we were Emmy eligible, I think David and I... That'd be the tape.

We would have submitted you as best guest actor in a podcast. Do you know what I'm saying? Like a kind of, like a Holland Taylor level, sort of just like... Yeah, exactly. In and out, does a good job, leaves.

But like immediately, like jumps in, fits into the tapestry of the show, brings something new, but doesn't feel like an outside element and then is gone. You know, but we had to bring you back much like Holland Taylor. We had to bring you back. Well thanks. I'm happy to be here. Next week, by the way, our guest

on the show will be Holland Taylor. Oh, that'd be great. So tune in for that. Yeah. Holland Taylor's gonna go to Elizabethtown with us. She could take a trip. You can have Sarah Paulson sitting down in the green room just waiting. Just picking at her cuticles. By the way, I heard that Sarah Paulson's next girlfriend is going to be Catherine Hepburn. She's moving on up in those years. The bluer the blood, the more she wants to hang out with him.

Lois Smith's just good. You just broke Lois Smith's heart. Lois Smith, great in The Nice Guys, and I just saw her in something else. She's always playing blind people. She plays a blind person in The Nice Guys. You know, vision impaired. Vision impaired.

Who did she just play? It doesn't matter. Gary Young. Mr. Magoo. She's in that Magoo reboot, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Magoo 3D.

Magoo.0? I don't know. Ladies and gentlemen, there's one other person we have to introduce before we get into a very serious discussion of the motion picture Vanilla Sky, directed by Cameron Crowe, starring I prefer Vanilla Sky. I'm sorry. Vanilla Sky. I'm going to stick to that.

Yeah. The person we have to introduce, of course. Yep. We have to deuce him. We could even say produce him, is Ben Hosling. Hey, everyone. Another episode of Blank Check.

Are you doing okay, Ben? Wow, said with mortal dread. Yeah, that was... Ben, this is a lucid dream. Don't worry. That was dire, Ben. Well, I had to wake up this morning and watch this movie. Vanilla Sky. What's the name of the movie, Ben?

Vanilla Sky. I love a vanilla wafer. I don't know about you guys. Some of you might be confused with Ben going, Ben, this guy, is he usually a part of the podcast? He is. You might know him by different names. Producer Ben, Produer Ben, the Ben Ducer, the Poet Laureate, the Haas, Mr. Positive, Earth Day Benny. He's very pro. The Tiebreaker,

the Fuckmaster. He's not Professor Crispy. He is the Peeper. He is the Poet Laureate. Sure. Unofficially, he is our greatest film critic. Yeah.

He has graduated to different titles throughout different miniseries. Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben Sate, and I went out of order. Sure.

And Ben Night Shyamalan. Good job. Thank you. Wasn't that great, Richard? He just did it quickly. I was thinking Cam Ben Crow. Cam Ben Crow. And we've got a suggestion. And as always, you know, the listener has to remember to tell Ben that he had them at

HelloFennel. Oh, boy. He had them. New twist on it. At HelloFennel. Oh, God. That came from a listener. I forget who. I'm sorry if I'm not giving you credit. Okay, yeah. Oh, boy. He had them. New twist on it. At Hello, Fennel. Oh, God. That came from a listener. I forget who. I'm sorry if I'm not giving you credit. Okay. Yeah.

Cam Ben Crow. Cam Ben Crow. Okay. So the year is 2001. Okay. This movie comes out like 12 months after Almost Famous. Yeah. It was Almost Famous winter release as well.

I believe Almost Famous was October. Yeah. And this film comes out December. December 14th, 2001. So we're talking 14 months later. Now, this is interesting because, you know, Almost Famous was DreamWorks, still sort of in their first couple years,

giving him a really big blank check coming off of Jerry Maguire, how big that was, right? Absolutely. Some years later, he comes back with his comeback, and he's given, I believe that film cost... Wait, he came back with a comeback? Yeah. Great.

Just checking. I believe that film cost $70 million. Yeah, definitely. It was super expensive. Didn't make a lot of money. Made $30. Made $30 domestic. Won him the Oscar.

Yes. So it sort of balanced out the thing, right? Yeah, but even while he's winning that Oscar, he's filming Vanilla Sky. Now that's what's interesting to me. Because this isn isn't this could sort of be a blank check because the two things that usually give someone a blank check are an oscar or massive financial success sure and if you get both then you're in the money right and you've been shown the money right and he came off of like one movie that was a big oscar contender and then you know made a tremendous amount of uh moolah and then made another film that got a ton of nominations got him one didn't do that well but was beloved but at this point he is a brand right sure but he's cashing in a check

before he's even received it to a degree and the lore i've heard is he and tom cruise are apparently very good friends still to this day good Good for them? Great for them, I would say. Smoke them if you got them. Well, I've heard things about Tom Cruise, so leave it there. And they'll watch movies together a lot. He's got one and he smokes them. And Cruise brought him. You're saying Cruise brought him.

Open your eyes. Brought him Abre los ojos what I heard is Cruz is saying I optioned this fucker not even what I heard what I heard is that

what I heard is that Cruz is sort of this omnivore he's constantly watching movies because he wants to like discover new directors right sure and so I think they were

watching something together and they watched it and they really liked it I don't know I guess if you heard he had optioned it by that point. I've got the story

for you here. He optioned the film instantly when it came out in America. Abre los ojos. It was at Sundance. Yes. It was an Alejandro

Amenabar movie and that guy. Yeah, where did he go? No, he made a Greek epic with Rachel Weisz a few years ago that nobody saw. Agora?

Agora. Agora, right. Yeah. He made The Others, right? And he made The Sea Inside. The Others, which is one of the best movies of its decade, maybe.

I mean, of pretty much the same time as Vanilla Sky's coming out. Great. And also was a massive financial success. Huge hit. Huge.

Especially considering Bigfoot and Paul Kidman, which is an interesting... That was Nicole's, like... It was a career revival. Yeah, and, you know, to put both those movies in, because that's 2001 too, The Others, right? That's 2000, because that comes out the same year as Moulin Rouge.

Oh, okay. Because then she wins the following year for The Hour. Moulin Rouge came out. Oh, you're right, it is 2001, yes. Right. 2001 is The Others and Moulin Rouge, and then 2002 she wins for The Hour. Yeah, she got double Globe noms that year.

Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman filed for divorce I believe in February 2001. Yes. And there's the famous shot of her rejoicing with the papers and her arms in the air.

I thought you were going to say of her holding the boombox. Yeah, she was holding the boombox up to Ione's Kaizo. And then so The Others

does very well that summer. Is that right? Yeah, perfect time to release a movie that's set basically at night in a dusty old house. But Moulin Rouge was May and The Others was like August. She had this big summer. Right. Yeah.

Right. And then 9-11 happened. And then Fiddlestick came out three months later. Yeah. And this movie, I remember really, really, it's one of those movies where you almost think like, maybe I'll watch this and I'll think it's so much better because it was released in the shadow 9-11 and it's such a weird you know self-centered movie yeah but it's almost like were people even into this like you know could people even really handle this like oh i'm a newspaper magnate i have a facial scar what was

you know like everyone's just like come, and like, she swallowed my cum. Sorry. I love this movie. Something no one was doing after 90 years. Yeah, no, no, we couldn't. We couldn't. It was too soon. The others came out August 2001, exactly. So I thought, oh, I'll rewatch this film and think, oh, maybe, you know, but no, I didn't.

No, it's not that good. You like it? I like it quite a bit. That's crazy. I'll sort of state my case for it as we go through this episode. Yeah, we'll go through. But it is definitely a movie where you go, like, was this a bit. That's crazy. I'll sort of state my case for it as we go through this episode. Yeah, we'll go through. But it is definitely a movie where you go like, was this a victim of circumstances? Yeah.

Because it came out, it did super well. Yeah, it did pretty well. It was a huge hit. It's Cameron Crowe's second biggest film behind Jerry Maguire. Sure. By like a good distance. Yeah. It's the second highest grossing film.

And it was not very critically well received. The public didn't like it very much. No. And it got like sort of no Oscar play other than the Paul McCartney song. And it was a big Oscar play, right? I mean, it came out in December. They thought it was a big Oscar play. They certainly thought.

I mean, what else are you going to do with a big romantic drama, right? Because this was in the period where Tom Cruise was trying to get that Oscar because he had done Magnolia and now this and like, you know. Yeah. And then The Collateral a couple years later. Minority Report. Minority Report. Last Samurai.

Sake! Oh, Last Samurai. That was a big Oscar play that didn't work. It was. It was. But yeah, there's that whole element. I remember even like it was top secret. The advertising was very vague. I mean, obviously, it was a remake of a film that people had seen.

So they knew where it was going. But they were very vague in how they're presenting the movie. And the poster was, it was from this time when all you needed for a poster was just a close-up of Tom Cruise's face.

All you need to advertise the movie was Tom Cruise's name, his face taking up the entire dimensions of the poster, and a color palette. You know? Yep, that was it. Just a tone.

And the poster told you nothing else and it made $100 million. And I remember saying you nothing else and it made a hundred million dollars. And I remember saying at the time like well that's proof of Tom Cruise's power is that this movie was not well liked. It was by all like judged

by most people even people who liked to be very self-indulgent kind of vanity project for both men. Yeah. It had the smell of vanity project all over

it. Yeah. I mean it did then but it even more does now. It more does now. In the context of Cruise and what was going on in his life and what was about to start happening. Yeah, I mean, it did then, but it even, it more does now. It more does now. In the context of Cruise and what was going on in his life

and what was about to start happening with his life, if you believe kind of like going clear about why he broke up with Nicole, you know,

and then she won her Oscar the next year. Yes. She got what he so wanted. It's true. Let's remember that She slapped on that nose. Yep.

Let's remember that a lot of the sort of promotional campaign and the buzz for this movie was centered around Cruz and Cruz, who at the time of the release of this film were, quote, dating, end quote. We are throwing love.

Sorry, I'm going to not do the Penelope Cruz voice. Please do the Penelope Cruz. Oh, Tom Cruz. But that was the big thing that they were likeope Cruz. Oh, Tom Cruise. Okay. But that was the big thing that they were like, Cruise and Cruz, he fell in love with this beautiful, foreign temptress on the set of his new movie. Watch the sparks fly.

You'll watch them fall in love on camera. Yeah, yeah, they're going to really... Look, we're making a lot of jokes at Tom Cruise's expense already, and that is well deserved. But we should note that in Jerry Maguire, he has great chemistry with nasal. He can have chemistry with women on screen has great chemistry with nasal. He can have chemistry with women.

Oh, for sure. He can. And it is the lack of chemistry between him and Penelope Cruz in this movie is so powerful. It's like there's a third character keeping them apart. Well, can I throw out a theory? It's crazy. Can I throw out a theory? And with Cameron Diaz, in my opinion, but go ahead.

Of course he can have chemistry with a woman because he's a very good actor, right? Yes. He is skilled at acting out scenarios that are not connected to how he actually feels in the present moment. We're going to get sued. I'm speaking in vague terms here, right? Yeah. But I think the key to that is having the relationship be developed from an acting standpoint. To have real meat to it, to both characters,

to have an actor who's going to volley back the ball to him. Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow. Exactly. 100%. What a great movie that is. I think this movie is sort of like, Penelope Cruz, who became an amazing actress, was an incredible actress in her own language, then for about 10 years didn't really work in American films

because she didn't have the right sort of facility. Five-ish years. And then has now become an amazing bilingual actress, right? So just before this, obviously she'd been in movies like Live Flesh and All About My Mother and Abra Loso. Did Captain Crowley's Mandolin come out before or after this? No, no.

She had done Woman on Top, which... Was her breakout. No, but that made a big spot. When it came out, people were like, here's the next big star. It wasn't like a huge movie, but I remember critics being like, we're going to put her in a more American movie. It was a huge flop that was thrust on audiences. But yes, it had that vibe of like,

here's like a big engineer. It was an introduction movie. Yeah. And then All the Pretty Horses. Right. Yeah. And then Captain Corelli? And then Captain Corelli's Mandolin and Blow came out in 2001.

So Captain Corelli and All the Pretty Horses. This is her third 2001 movie after Blow and Captain Corelli's Mandolin. Which, like, Blow was kind of a semi-bomb, but also it was like a drug dealer movie. People thought it was cool. Like, it's a Parker brand. No, it made like 50 million bucks. Captain Crowley was a train wreck.

It was a disaster. And All the Pretty Horses was like... And that had been the year before, but that was one of those things where it was supposed to be an Oscar movie, and then Harvey cut it. He had a four-hour cut, and they released it an hour and a half and they changed the music. Imagine the four hour cut of that movie. Well apparently it's good. I've heard it's really good. Damon says it's good. Captain Corelli also was John Madden's follow up to Shakespeare in Love

I believe. So that had like a big stand. And it was based on guys coming right off of having won their Oscars. And she's in two movies. John Madden. Did I say Guy Madden? No you said John Madden. What if Guy Madden played Captain Corelli's in two movies. John Madden. Did I say Guy Madden? No, you said John Madden. Okay. What if Guy Madden played Captain Carly's mandolin? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That is crazy that she does the Crow after Maguire slash Almost Famous.

She does the Madden after Shakespeare in Love. Sure. She does the Thornton after Sling Blade. It's the Naomi Watts plan. Yeah, right. Where they're like, but we just got to get you and stuff. Don't worry, we've got all this stuff going. I mean, Captain Carly's mandolin is a good analog to Vanilla Sky,

where it's like she has no chemistry with the star. Yeah. And the star is kind of a crazy person. Yeah, the star is kind of weird. And it sinks the movie. Now, at least Tom Cruise is ostensibly well cast in Vanilla Sky, and it's like a hot shot handsome pants. Whereas Nicolas Cage

was playing an Italian like Christ figure. Well, here's the thing. So like, in Jerry Maguire those career arcs were both of them. Bella bambina

two o'clock. I just did a better Italian accent. The other thing is he is Italian. That's what's so crazy about how bad he is in that film.

The other thing is Penelope Cruz is Spanish and she's playing a Greek island woman. Yeah, it's a nightmare. Island woman. It's set on a Greek island. Offensive. Please write in a campaign to your local senator to have David penalized for that comment.

The thing with Jerry Maguire is those two characters are so well written and their relationship is so unconventional and how it plays out as opposed to how most romantic dramedies play out. Right. Sure. Very, it's like they get married and then fall in love and all that sort of stuff. But there's like meat to play in every scene that isn't just act like you have the most chemistry in the world.

Whereas vanilla sky, every scene just going at, just make sparks fucking pop. Yeah. It really wants it to be like a meet cute thing where it's like instantly he's just like, who's this? But they're just sort of talking in bonk moves and it's all close ups.

It works so hard to do it and I really feel like, I don't know what between Almost Famous, which is sort of like on the cusp of that preciousness you know, but doesn't, I like that movie a lot. But then it tips over into this and he never gets out of it again. I think

Almost Famous is we should you know it's a definite bridge because yes it is more precious than Jerry Maguire and it's more it's less realistic right? Yes. Like that is a storybook type movie whether or not you like it. It's a nostalgic movie. It's like a memory play People don't talk like normal people

in it. They say very grand things a lot or not you like it. It's a nostalgic movie. It's like a memory play. People don't talk like normal people in it. They say very grand things a lot or like, you know, mysterious things. But that's various grand stuff. Poetic things. Yes. Had grounding because it was his life.

It's his life and it's memories and it's nice. This is just like a marketing team being like, okay, write something that makes it seem like Penelope Cruz

is the most appealing woman in the world except don't write a character. She has no character. Like at all. She don't know a thing. She has no character. Like, at all. She don't know a thing about her. She's like a horrible manic pixie dream girl kind of type. Before Elizabeth Tarrum. Now, she plays a similar role. I've seen Abre. Have either of you

seen Abre Los Ojos? I have not. She plays a similar role. She's extremely charming and it totally works. So, you know, it's not like there's a lot more to the character there. It is set in Spain, though. It's like everyone in Spain is like that. And here's the other thing.

She won an Oscar for that. Yeah, exactly. She did. The other thing is. Just put a floppy half on her. That's all you need to do. Foreign actors, you know, learning to act in English. Yeah, sure.

She's still pretty new to English. As they're still learning that language. It doesn't just come down to like, oh, the accent is heavy. You can't understand what they're saying. They don't know the words as well, whatever it is. I think the bigger element with foreign actors before they get comfortable and fluent with English in American films is that even if you're saying the right thing the right way, you're so freaked out about it. Yeah. That like, especially if you want to be like a movie star, the key to that is having a certain sort of ease

and relaxedness on screen, especially a film like this that's all about personality. And you watch it, and the whole time, you're kind of nervous for her. Because you're like, you can tell how much she's struggling. We're also nervous because Tom Cruise won't stop fucking staring at her. It's all these looks. Leave her alone, Tom.

And then she's got these weird Cameron Crowe lines, and you know that she doesn't have complete facility with the words she's saying. Imagine trying to learn Cameron Crowe dialogue phonetically. that she doesn't have like complete facility with the words she's saying. I mean like imagine trying to learn Cameron Crowe dialogue phonetically. Right.

That's really hard to do. Like she's fine in this movie but it's just such a struggle for her. Like you feel bad watching her. I think she has some of the most powerful moments in the movies

just because she's such an effective screen presence no matter what. Yeah. But like as a character and as she functions in the rest of the movie it's like kind of a disaster.

She has like silent physical moments in this film that are incredible. Really really good. Remarkable. But like as a character and as she functions in the rest of the movie it's like kind of a disaster. She has like silent physical moments in this film that are incredible. Really really good. Remarkable. But we'll get to it but when she walks into the memorial service

of the tour of the very is amazing. It's such a beautiful she's amazing with that when she has to talk you see her getting a little in her head. But let's get back

to Richard's story time because I like that. Yeah. Like the story of 2001 which starts with yeah Cruz and Kidman break up and it was shocking. Yeah.

Kind of, right? Yeah, well, because they'd been together for like a decade at that point almost. Yeah, 10 years practically. Because Days of Thunder is 89, you know, and they married pretty soon after that. Right, like far and away it was like 91. 91 or 92. This is coming pretty shortly after the movie they made about their sex life. Sure.

With Stanley Kubrick. Well, right, exactly. They'd gone through the ringer with old Stanley. This very intense kind of husband and wife thing to do. Sure. Stanley Kubrick. Well, right. Exactly. They've gone through the ringer with old Stanley. This very intense kind of husband and wife thing to do. Yeah. And there's all these rumors like, oh, they didn't have any chemistry on screen like that had been floating around. Right.

So I don't I don't remember if it was like that much of a surprise. Maybe it felt more inevitable than some other celebrity big celebrity breakups. But like it he was such a big star at that point. Such a big. And she was kind of on her way like that would you know she was about

to be on her way after like a long time of kind of you know half getting there and then kind of false starts I would say after

2001 after the others and Moulin Rouge she just went she's sort of A-list for a while and she becomes 20 million dollars

she becomes a regular Oscar player and that's how her movies are viewed and she got to show that she has really cool weird taste too like she just became

one of the more interesting movie stars out there I think not always successful but Tom Cruise he was like oh fur or birth I love birth fur is kind of like you wish fur was birth

you wish fur had a little more birth in it I wish my birth had a little more fur in it I don't honestly don't know what you're saying I can't even begin to imagine I wish fur had a little more birth in it. Sure. I wish my birth had a little more fur in it. I don't. Honestly, don't know what you're saying. I can't. I can't even begin to imagine. Anyway.

I don't know. I just think it comes at an interesting time. It does. I'm curious when you guys first saw this, because I know I have a very specific kind of time and place memory of seeing this movie. Right. Because I had just started college. I was a freshman at a school I really didn't want to go to

because I was the artsy kid who smoked cigarettes and was in therapy. I went to a very kind of preppy kind of Catholic Abercrombie kind of school. And so a bunch of us, like a week before we got out for Christmas break, our first ever, went to go see this movie at the theater closest

to the campus. And everyone I went with was like, that was so stupid. I hated that. It was boring. What was that about? And kind of be the contrarian to distinguish myself. I was like, no, it's brilliant. I was convinced of it. And I think that was largely because of basically the last 15 minutes of the movie.

Yes. Which are the most arresting. Yeah. Yes. But anyway, I just had this really funny relationship with it and then watched it years later and was like, oh, I think my friends were right. That is a phenomenon that I think like, I would imagine a lot of our listeners would relate to when you're like younger.

Yeah. And you go see- Suddenly your tastes are beginning to diverge perhaps a little bit. But even this bigger thing, I mean, you just conjured a very specific kind of feeling in me, which is when you're younger and you go see movies, and at this point movies are just a social activity still, right? Yeah, just go see a movie. I went with like seven people or something.

Why else did I see the real Howard Spitz? Right. Which is a film I saw with my friends at a movie theater. Well, just go see that. Right. And then when everyone else is like, that's dumb, that's stupid, you as someone who has a sort of more serious film mind whether or not

you think the movie is great get defensive to protect the fact that the movie is at least trying something right like it's not

Sweet Home Alabama like I can tell this movie is attempting to do something so if you're dismissing it as oh that movie is fucking stupid right I didn't get it

it was dumb right you want to be like I get it right even if you don't love it you get what they're trying to do is there a film you're thinking of where you felt this contrarian sort of uh yes i can tell you exactly what film i i wasn't bringing this up because i was thinking but just say is it captain corelli's mandolin yes no the one that was the

strongest example you guys didn't get it it was all about the mandolin the one that was the strongest example of this in my childhood uh where i drew the line, or my adolescence or whatever, drew the line was Ang Lee's Hulk. Oh, that's a good one. I fucking went to bat for a hard, and everyone else was like, fuck, stupid, it's not funny. Right. I remember that being a complaint was that it wasn't funny enough. And you probably cited that shot, that silent shot of him falling. In the clouds?

In the desert. Yes, 100%. That was kind of the one I went to. I still love that movie. Yeah. But I remember that being a big line in the sand moment where it's like- We'll talk about the Hulk one day. You fuckers don't get it.

We will talk about the Hulk one day. No question. The Hulk is weird in 2003, but after 13 years of more Marvel movies, it's really weird. You watch that now after you watch any very cookie cutter Marvel movie and you're just like, who let this happen? We will never- Who wrote the check? Universal Pictures. Universal Pictures.

Universal Pictures, yeah. We will never see that esoteric superhero film ever again. That will never happen ever again. David, what are your memories of seeing Vanilla Sky? So I had seen Abre Los O'Hurs. Oh, congratulations. On the BBC, I believe, or on Channel 4 probably, actually, which is the slightly artier network in the UK. on the BBC, I believe, or on Channel 4 probably, actually,

which is the slightly artier network in the UK. So I'd seen that movie, and I liked it. Now I've rewatched it. It's okay. It's not quite. When I was a teenager, I thought it was brilliant because it was in a different language, and it was about lucid dreaming. Right.

And it has Eduardo Noriega and Penelope Cruz and nobody else famous. So what I'm saying is I went into Vanilla Sky and I knew what it was going to be about, which I feel like most people were not like, Sure. I don't know, like, you know, blowjob lady's going to crash a car

and then his face will be scarred, then he'll have a lucid dream, and then he'll scream tech support, Noah Taylor will ride an elevator. We're like, nobody saw this coming. We've got Blowjob Lady and Island Woman from David so far today, by the way. It's just the way this movie treats Cameron Diaz for having sex with a man is a little bonkers.

I'm just going to say. David, she swallowed his cum. That meant something. When you have sex with a person, you're making a promise to them, whether you know it or not. What does it say that I relate to her most of any character in this movie? Well, yeah. I'm also going through a breakup in the last 48 hours.

But I was watching this and I was like, yeah, yeah, say it. You don't own a muscle car, do you? I do. Why does he get in the car? Give Ben your keys. By the way, Cameron Diaz is going to pick me up after we're done recording. I'm in a free fall. Don't go driving down Riverside Drive.

Anyway, so the film is actually pretty much exactly the same as Abreu Los Rojos, except for the main character of that movie is not a magazine magnate who's friends with Steven Spielberg. He's just some guy? That's the stuff. Yeah, he's like a successful man. That's the flashy stuff that Cruise and Crowe had. Cruise and Crowe are playing around

with this like, no, let's make this really big. And I think let's make this kind of decidedly American. I think that was another aspect of it. So I went to see the film. I was such a Tom Cruise fan. Loved Tom Cruise. And I liked Cameron Crowe. I mean, I loved Jerry Maguire and I was fine with Almost Famous. So I was like, I was into a Tom Cruise fan. Loved Tom Cruise. And I liked Cameron Crowe. I mean, I loved Jerry Maguire,

and I was fine with Almost Famous. So I was like, I was into the movie. And I was a dedicated Empire magazine reader. Oh, okay. And Empire had just been hyping it. Because Empire was, they were real Cameron Crowe fans, I remember. And they had just been hyping it for so long.

It's like, here's Mystery Project Vanilla Sky. Like, oh, Penelope Cruz is going to be like the next superstar. You know, so I was just really hyped up for it. It had a lot of elements. Yeah. To be excited about. Yeah. And Cameron Diaz was a big deal.

I was like a big being John Malkovich fan. Once again, this was post Shrek. I mean, she was huge. And she hadn't yet descended into the, you know, just shitty romantic comedy. She was doing interesting performance. She hadn't done Shrek 3 yet. She was like consecutive performing. She hadn't done Trek 3 yet. She was like consecutive Golden Globe nominee.

You know, like, she was an ingenue on the rise. And she was nominated for this and she also got a SAG award for this. Nomination. Yeah, but I'm saying people thought she was

going to get an Oscar nomination. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I still contend that she should have gotten the Oscar nomination that Catherine Keener got for Malkovich. I think they both

should have been nominated. Oh, I love Keener. Yeah. But, yeah. But Diaz is amazing in got for Malkovich. I think they both should have been nominated. Oh, I love Keener. But Diaz is amazing in being John Malkovich. I also would have nominated her for There's Something About Mary, which is a deceptively difficult performance. I agree. I also

would have nominated her for The Mask. I don't know. Feeling Minnesota. I have seen Feeling Minnesota. She's alright in that The Last Supper I saw that movie probably about 20 times That's a good one

That's a good one Courtney B. Vance Oh the great Courtney B. Vance Annabeth Gish CBV Can I tell you guys my experience of seeing this film

Ben Hey guys Ben you can say anything Oh thank you Dot dot dot So I saw this at a drive-thru. That's crazy.

The year was 57. Somehow that's the least surprising thing in the world. And I was sitting in the back seat, and I made out with a girl. Wait, so you were sitting in the back seat. Were people sitting in the front seat? Yeah, David, it's a car. Who was sitting in the front seat? All right.

Your parents? Maybe you moved to the back seat to make out is what I'm asking. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't have a car. I was with my friend. I don't know whose car it was. So you had one friend in the front seat? Yeah. Just sitting stone-faced, gripping the wheel at 10 and 2.

Watching Vanilla Sky while you sat in the back and made out. Exactly. That's how it went down. No, he had a girl too. Oh, he did? We were on a double date. Oh, okay. You must have absorbed very little of this film making out in the backseat of a car and a driver.

No, I did not pay attention to what happened at all. Because if the two people in the front were making out as well, anytime they would lean in to make out, you wouldn't have been able to see the movie, right? Yeah, no, it's just a real kiss fest in there. Are you allowed to say come at a drive-in? They just edit that out, yeah. They turn it off for a second. They set off

an air horn, and then a guy comes out with a flag so you can't read her lips, waves it in front of the screen. Oh my god. Yeah, this movie was, so I had seen, so I knew the general. Yeah, this movie was... So I had seen... So I knew the general premise, but this movie was a little shockingly... I was only 15.

Yeah. I wasn't seeing, like, a lot of our rated quote-unquote movies yet. So, yeah, this was a little shockingly sexual. In dialogue. Pretty blunt in how it discusses sex. Yeah. For a section of the movie, before it becomes kind of more, like, you know,

gooey and sort of, like, dreamy. Yeah, right of the movie before it becomes kind of more like, you know, gooey and sort of like dreamy. Yeah, right in the first act. But even that scene where he's talking about the mole on Penelope Cruz's breast is like different than what you'd see in most Hollywood films, I'd say. Where it's like two people naked in a bed together and it's not like quick cut gauzy like thrusting. Sure. It's them just sort of sitting and naked and like talking there is some it reminds me of yes oh yes ray fines and kristen stuck thomas when he's like i claim this you know part of her neck or whatever you know it's it's that same scene

and they're doing it in notting hill but there's no boobs uh but they do have a friend no it's Reesey Fonsek. The two of them. In Abra Los Ojos, I remember the same scene, she is straddling him. She's on top. She's a woman on top? She's a woman on top and has her arms up and he mimes putting a coin in her armpit and then she freezes and then she starts moving again. Very strange.

I love that. It's so odd that it is to this day impressed upon again. Very strange. I love that. And that is so odd that it is to this day impressed upon me. That weird little scene. But it's like the movie's beats are exactly the same down to the crucial moment of him lying in the gutter. Okay. His face looks way worse in the Spanish movie.

Interesting. Oh yeah well they couldn't really. Yeah they couldn't fuck him up beyond recognition. But here's what I like about this movie. It's not the only thing I like about this movie. There's something I like about this movie. Yes, they still make him look like Tom Cruise. I do think he genuinely looks terrible in it. Yeah.

No, if you saw him on the street, you would be repulsed. I think he looks terrible, but also he does such a good performance of playing a kind of repulsive person. Yes, yes. Once he gets to that point that he really sells the makeup. I just, watching it even today, I was like surprised anytime they cut to the face

going like, oh, you didn't like do the Gerard Butler Phantom of the Opera thing where it's like, okay, there's a four inch radius

that's shitty. Right. But like, he's really playing unlikable and the face is genuinely upsetting to look at. So the first time I saw this movie

was two years ago. Whoa. Completely missed it at the time. Sure. You were pretty young, probably. Probably like 13 years old. But here's the thing. I really didn't like Tom Cruise at the time, right?

Yeah, you were a dick about Tom Cruise. I was a dick about Tom Cruise for a long time. So I just think I had no interest. I was a Cameron Crowe fan. And when the reviews came out and they were bad, I was like, I don't want to see a bad Tom Cruise movie. I just sort of had no inclination to see it. And I had over the years just kind of kept the narrative of like, oh, that one sucks. People hate that one.

And then every once in a while I'd hear someone be like, I actually think it's really good. I actually think it's really interesting. So I watched it like two years ago when I was stuck in a house with my family for the holidays and was just like, let me just Netflix a bunch of stuff that I wouldn't watch most times. Movies on there that I kind of mean to see, but I don't think are very good. I watched it and was really into it. Really, really liked it.

I have defended it since then. Today was only the second time I'd seen it. I will say this, probably the number one worst movie to see right after being dumped. I mean, there's a lot of bad movies to see right after being dumped, but sure, it's not a good one. The Lobster, for example. Don't go see it in theaters.

I think I would find The Lobster more cathartic in my current state. Here's my thesis for why this is a terrible movie to see after being dumped, right? It's the loneliest movie ever made. Yeah, it's actually because i actually watched it a couple yesterday or the day and i it's it's really depressing and i was really bummed out after watching it it's a film about loneliness yes it is an isolation and it's a guy who cannot get over one moment he had with someone that was so great that he'd rather go into a coma and live again he a day to day basis

freeze his body like an ice cube because he can't get over the time he was happy anyway yeah this is when we did a number on me but here's Ben cackling in the background like some Jason Lee driving off

yeah Ben is the Jason Lee I'm Penelope. You're Cameron Diaz. You're Tommy C. I was going to say... Richard's Kurt Russell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, and I want to talk about Kurt Russell.

He's got the Atticus Finch glasses. We'll get to that. And also, like, I remember the first time I watched this movie being like, Kurt Russell's in this? Because I think he wasn't in the marketing at all, right? Yeah, it's kind of a... Someone called Tom Cruise was in the marketing? Right.

I don't know if you know that. But that's the point. The trailer was just like, Tom Cruise, diaz penelope cruz and we about two guys who fucks two great ladies in england um it's timothy spalls on all the cover all the posters right it was it was a spall picture love sex friendship death spall yeah yeah me and richard for two years now i've had a running joke about the film mr turner. You remember last year when I gave the Putters and Murmurs award?

Or Ian McKellen got the second annual Timothy Spall award for Putters and Murmurs. Have you ever actually seen Mr. Turner? I forget. I was on my top ten of the year list that year. I remember when I first described the Victoria scene.

I saw it the day before I wrote the list I remember when I first described the Victoria scene where he grabs the boob well there's that the scene where Queen Victoria just wanders into a room of art and looks at his painting and goes Turner

I love Mr. Turner can I say my favorite thing about Timothy Spall? I saw this interview with him when- He's playing Christopher Hitchens in this movie, right? I saw this movie and I was like, Timothy Spall, Christopher Hitchens, like 10 years ago.

Let's make that happen. In almost every movie he's playing. It's crazy. Well, not Enchanted. No. Which he's wonderful in. He's so good in that. I saw this interview with him when Mr. Turner was coming out.

Turner. They were talking about how people thought he might get an Oscar, and he had won Best Actor at Cannes and all this sort of stuff. And they were like, is that crazy for you? And he's like, yeah, you know, I'm just like, I'm not going to try to do the accent. He was like, I'm such a blue-collar guy. I'm from working class. We don't think things like this can happen to us.

He goes, I remember when they read off my name, and they said, and the award goes to Timothy Spall. And I said, that's my name. And I went, wow, you're so blue-collar that you can't even say your own name correctly. He pronounces it Timothy. Timothy Spall. Timothy Spall.

Timothy Spall. Timothy. Spall. He's great. He's great. I love Timothy Spall. And any movie that has Timothy Spall and Timothy. Spall. He's great. He's great. I love Timothy Spall. And any movie that has Timothy Spall and Noah Taylor in it is really... Can we play this?

Okay, and Tilda Swinton. Can we play this game quickly, okay? The game is, let's go around a circle until one of us can't name another cast member from Vanilla Sky. Because I just want to try listing how weird the collection of people are in this movie. Oh, yeah. Because there's some fun ones buried in there. Right? Okay, so Timothy Spall.

Noah Taylor. Tilda Swinton. Tom Cruise. Michael Shannon. Jason Lee. Cameron Diaz. Ken Leung. Shit.

Did we say Kurt Russell, right? No, you got it. Penelope Cruz. Johnny Galecki. Yes. Oh, Alicia Witt. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what I was going to take. Was Tilda Sw Galecki. Yes. Oh, Alicia Witt. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what I was going to take.

Was it Tull Swinton said? Yeah. Fuck. We're basically done, but you should definitely name the biggest cameo. Steven Spielberg. Yes, indeed. We said Timothy Swallow said. I think we said everybody else.

I don't know anyone else in this movie, but it's quite a cast list. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a party scene where Steven Spielberg runs up to Tom Cruise and goes, you son of a bitch, and is clearly playing Steven Spielberg friend to publishing magnate.

Publishing magnate David Ames. So this is what I find interesting about this movie, okay? Having not seen the original because when I was fucking 11 or whatever, 10, and I was going to day camp, on the bus to camp every morning, this one kid was like, it's like that Spanish thriller, O Bro Los Hoyos, or whatever it's called. I don't speak Spanish. But he would every day equate everything in this movie and fucking brag about the fact that he'd seen some Spanish movie with boobs in it.

And so when Vanilla Sky came out, that was like the other reason I didn't want to see it because I was like, that fucking movie that kid used to always talk about. Okay, so you were biased against Vanilla Sky. Right. But you know, you were saying it's about loneliness or something. Then we got sidetracked with Spall. When you were saying all the stuff that got added that isn't the original about him being a Tom Cruise figure,

being an heir to a fortune. And having daddy issues. All that sort of stuff. I read this interview with Cameron Crowe where he showed me the movie and he said we should make this we should make this right now da da da da said that to Crowe and Crowe said like I like the original story but if I was going to remake it I was going to put my own spin on it and I feel like more than most

remakes this is like a movie that whether or not you like it is an argument for how you can make an interesting remake which is like what if you take it is an argument for how you can make an interesting remake. Which is like, what if you take the plot of a film and you filter it through all of your personal obsessions?

You know? Like, this is such a Cameron Crowe movie, but it's a Crow-zation of another thing. You're not selling me. I'm not saying good or bad. I'm just saying, this is like how you wish more people remade movies

where it's like, really put your own spin on it, right? Sure. Whether or not it's good, it's worth remaking, rather than so many things that are just like shot for shot you know just with a different cast Cameron Crowe said the idea that and I think this was just something he had wanted to write about at some other point in time maybe he had a nascent screenplay idea and when Cruise came to him he was like oh what if I threw this onto that? He said he was really obsessed with the quote

that Elvis Presley had about feeling like the loneliest person in a room where everyone knows who you are. And that's totally what this movie's about. It's like this sort of isolation, a guy who feels just somehow deeply intrinsically lonely despite having everything at his disposal. Here's my problem with that.

You don't get that sense until his face has been smashed into a million pieces. You know? See, I even, and once again, it might be the mental state I'm in right now, but the first, like, 40 minutes of this movie where it's like, Tom Cruise killing it. I, like, watch it and go, like, this is

so lonely. Yeah, no, I don't disagree with you. I just don't think the movie shows that he feels that way. Well, I mean, it literally starts with him running around an empty New York City. Yeah, true. I don't disagree with you. I just don't think the movie shows that he feels that way. Well, I mean, it literally starts with him running around an empty New York City. Yeah, true. Yes. So I think they're starting to establish it. Which is a pretty cool sequence. Oh, yeah. I remember hearing stories about how they filmed that

and just like they had so little time. They like roped off Times Square at like 3 in the morning for like 5 minutes. Like in 28 Days Later when they like, you know. Right. Did Lampy London. Right. London. They'd have to like rope off like.

Timothy Spool was there. Other than. Grumbling about what was going on. Alright. Other than like the couple of biggest establishing shots they have,

they would have to like rope off four blocks for 30 minutes. Yeah. And then they'd like let that go but then other people would be roped off.

Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. And that was, i remember even at the time like as a kid growing up in new york when they were filming the movie and it was such a big deal like tom cruise shut down time square like no one can shut down time square it was like how unassailable he was that it was like this guy's such a big movie star he can fucking do whatever he wants yeah and it's crazy that at any point in his career, Cameron Crowe got to do that. Yes. And that's what's so funny about this movie is that it's really a folklore movie because if this had gone well, I think Cameron Crowe's career would have been way different. I get it.

But it didn't, and then he kind of had to, he receded back into- Well, I think he starts scrambling. Yeah. That's my, like, Elizabethtown is him being like, I'm going to write the most Cameron Crowe-y movie you ever Cameron Crowed. Like, I'm going to fix it all. Romance. You love romance and talking, right?

Right. This movie is throwing the Cameron Crowe thing onto something else. Right. Which is how he could have expanded as a director. That's why I don't like this movie.

How he could have grown up, you know? Is there another director who has done that successfully? I mean, I know this movie did okay financially, but obviously critically it didn't. Yeah. Is there someone who's like that idiosyncratic who then made like a weirder, more genre-y movie?

Not that this is a genre movie, but I can't really think of a movie. Successfully? I don't, I mean. I mean, I'd have to think. It would be like if Richard Linklater made like a sci-fi thriller. Right. I mean, I guess he has. He's pretty good too.

I mean, I'd say School of Rock kind of functions in that way. I mean, it's not the same thing exactly. But it was like a commercial film that did well and very much feels like of a piece with his work. It does, I agree. It's a big example because like most of the times where that happened, it's like Altman's Popeye, you know? Right. Where it's like this is Altman, right, you know, trying to fit into a pre-existing genre. I made you something and we're all like, oh.

Do you like it? But in most cases, you're sort of like. It's like weird. I mean, I said on Twitter this movie is like Jerry Maguire got out of some sort of Frankenstein monster experiment before he was finished. And he just starts rampaging around. It's like a deformed Jerry Maguire. Love me. It's the only good scene in Alien Resurrection where Sigourney Weaver finds the room

with all the aborted clones all the the spec scripts that didn't make it essentially and they're all the fucked up Sigourney Weaver Sigourney Weaver

with like three flippers one titty and she's like got a slug body and she just burns them all yeah right like this feels like

most times an idiosyncratic sort of drama or comedy like like small scale, emotional focus. Drama or comedy director has tried to throw that into a larger genre structure. It's either like a disaster like that. Yeah. Or like Barry Levinson's toys, which we've talked about a lot. You know, things like that.

That's a good one. Yeah. But isn't that him being like, I've always wanted to make this movie toy. Yeah. That was a singular vision, if nothing else. This is at least Cruise being like, I've optioned to make this movie toy. That was a singular vision, if nothing else. This is at least Cruise being like, I've optioned this movie, I think it's great, and I want you to make it with me. And Cameron Crowe

is sort of, okay, yeah, great. I was going to say, the other example of what happens in that circumstance is, they make a movie and you go, I can't believe that guy directed that. Like, it just feels like it was made by committee. His voice is totally lost in this. Tim Burton's Big Eyes. Yep. I liked him. I'm with the Richard. It's a reverse. It's going from big totally lost in this. Tim Burton's Big Eyes. Yep. I liked him. But it's...

I'm with the Richard. It's a reverse. It's going from big to small. Tim Burton's weird because he made idiosyncratic blockbusters from the beginning. I mean, he's a pretty good example because it just happened really fast. You know what? He could have made weird little movies for horror, like Beetlejuice's for a while. He just got Batman right at the start.

There's something to be said for the fact that his two really Oscar ploy movies both start with the word big? Big Eyes, Big Fish. Anyway. What's he going to do next? You love Big Eyes. I like it a lot. I love Big Fish. I recently tried to rewatch

Big Eyes. It doesn't move. Put it that way. I like it. It's not a fast movie. I'm defending everything today. Yeah, all right. You know who I'd say

kind of almost has pulled off what we're talking about? Who? To invoke the movie for the second time today? Doug Liman. With Edge of Tomorrow? Like, Edge of Tomorrow sort of feels like a big genre movie with you know, prevalent Limany element. He's a weird director.

I can't get a beat out of him. He doesn't have as strong a voice but it does feel like that movie almost threads that needle. That movie's great, but almost threads the needle of what we're talking about. It's very weird that the guy who made the Valerie Plain movie

also made Jumper. Yes. And Edge of Tomorrow. Yeah. And Go. And Mr. and Mrs. Smith. And originated the Bourne movies. What if he's like really

six people secretly? It's kind of, that's what I'm saying. I can't get a beat on that guy. His career's insane. What's his deal? It's kind of, that's what I'm saying. I can't get a beat on that guy. His career's insane. What's his deal? It's so weird. Yeah, I don't know.

Anyway, sorry. Vanilla or Sky? Vanilla or Sky. Okay, so let's- All right, I'm gonna tell you the plot of Vanilla or Sky right now. A man is in prison

and he's been charged with murder. Well, first, someone tells him to open his mouth. Sure, and he runs through empty Times Square. That's also a ballsy move that the first line of the film

is a character saying the title of the original film. In Spanish, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. One thing I think about the movie that is ballsy is that it is narrated by a man who is wearing a uh rubber mask and it sounds like it's like you know i was a magazine uh i own some magazines can you hear me like it's it's the most muffled narration you ever heard uh i love this mask so much what do you think of the mask

i like the mask it's creepy the mask is really creepy and it's used to some very like it's used to good effect i think in several scenes yes and um right after eyes wide shut too not right yeah tom cruise in masks i love that it's not a blank fake mask but it's also it's like slightly creepy almost a little too tom cruise right but it's it strikes just the perfect uncanny valley point where it's not like just like tom cruise's face and it's also not just a sort of anonymous mask it It's like just somewhere in the middle where you're really uncomfortable anytime it's on screen.

He also gets really weird and physical anytime he's wearing the mask. He does all that sort of shit where he's like... That just to where he's dancing for some unknown reason. Unknown reason. Yeah. So a man in a mask has been charged with murder

and he tells his court-appointed psychologist, played by Kurt Russell... A kindly court appointed psychologist played by Kurt Russell. A kindly Kurt Russell. Nice, a nice Kurt Russell. It's, I think, I think it's my favorite

performance in the movie and I think it's one of my favorite Kurt Russell performances. I love it when action actors don't do action. Me too.

Like, like, like Bruce Willis and Nobody's Fool or something. And Moonrise Kingdom. Oh, yes,

perfect. Such a good example. Perfect example. Yeah. Anyway, so I love Kurt Russell in this. He's just so, I mean, he's built to be likable, but it's great casting.

Well, also, I think that it's interesting that Cameron Crowe has posed on screen this big challenge to him of like, you're a character who's supposed to be evocative of Atticus Finch, of Gregory Peck in To Kill a Mockingbird. Not a pretty famous nice guy performance. Yeah, but maybe the most famous. He does a very good job

like I think inhabiting that sort of like gentle fatherly energy. Without doing an impression. But in Vanilla Sky 2 he's going to be racist. Flaken goes to the watchman. Cameron Crowe has written

Vanilla Sky 2. Chocolate Sky. And it won't be released until Chocolate Ground. Once he's infirm his kids I'm sorry, chocolate ground. It's almost as good as Tova Feldschuh's The Lorax,

kicking herself in the behind. This is why you bring back Rylos for a twofer. How you doing, Rylos? Good, good. Kurt Russell, love him. All right, so... Kate Hudson's dad, sort of. Yeah, he's not technically, though. But she calls him dad.

He's like her co-dad. I hadn't even made that connection. Crow had just finished work with Kate Hudson, and now he's working with Daddy. And she said, my dad needs some work. He's just kicking around the house. Have him show up first day of filming. I'll find something for him.

We'll throw some glasses on. It is worth mentioning that Kurt Russell was very dormant his career at this point. He had like made these weird comeback attempts. Soldier. Soldier. Escape from L.A. Escape from L.A. in the 90s where it was like. Executive decision. Yeah. Breakdown.

It's very clearly like okay you're not you know you're not an action star. And Carpenter's failing him. Carpenter's fucking wiping out so he can't be there to prop him up anymore. Yeah, that is true. Ghosts of Mars comes out this year, I believe. 2,000 Miles to Graceland maybe came out earlier this same year.

I believe it's 3,000 Miles to Graceland, my friend. I think I have failed at trivia off of that very difference in numbers. Yes, that was the Elvis impersonator bank robber movie with Kevin Costner and Courtney Cox. I remember. And Lucy Liu? Possibly. Isn't that where Courtney

Cox met David Arquette? Yes. That's the movie they met on. Yes. Right. Yes. Because I introduced them. You did craft services on 3000. No, I was writing a feature for Empire Magazine. Never ran. You would have read it. Oh, I loved Empire Magazine.

So he narrates, he flashes back, and he's a publishing magnate. And they filmed it in the Condé Nast offices where I used to work before we moved downtown. In the old Times Square building. While mentioning Graydon Carter, who is my boss. Well, my boss's boss. Shout out to Graydon Carter. He listens, right? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, tip-blank check. Is he more of a Griff head or a David dog? Or is he a hos-hog? He's a hos-hog, absolutely. Well, I'll tell you. Hey there. Big G. I've talked about this with you, but my roommate when I dropped out of college was Greg and Carter's son, who I believe does not listen to this podcast.

Oh, that's right, yeah. My friend Spike, and he was the name on the lease. That's right, yeah. My friend Spike, and he was the name on the lease. And so once a month, I would have to bring a check for like $600 to the hallway in Vanilla Sky and wait for someone to come out and collect the check. It's like Gary Carter could use it as toilet paper. You know, could not even bother to deposit it. Yeah, you told me that.

So you are intimately acquainted with the kind of a job that David Ames has. A hundred percent. Which is that he runs three magazines. Is it only three? I think he just says three. It was like a Maxim X magazine. One's called Lies. Is that right?

Didn't they at one point go, we need your approval on the new cover of Lies magazine? I might have misheard it. Sounds like a great title for a magazine. This is an interesting moment in time, too, because it's about a rich, wealthy magazine heir in 2001 when all that was starting to fall to shit. Literally,

within a year, the idea, it's like, oh, so you're a penniless? Is that what you are? You're a pauper king? When did the internet start in 2002? Is that right? Al Gore invented the internet right upon leaving office in 2000. Okay, right. He said, oh, and here, by the way.

Because the first website was for the X-Men movie, right? It was summer 2000? Yeah. The first website was for Ben Hosley's favorite movie, Stargate. Is that true? That was the first website? Stargate was the first film with a website. I always thought it was Space Jam.

What about Space Jam? Space Jam's after Stargate. It's the oldest website. Yeah, website? Stargate was the first film with a website. I always thought it was Space Jam. What about Space Jam? Space Jam's after Stargate. It's the oldest website. Yeah, Space Jam's... Is it? Space Jam. Space Jam.

I'm going to make one called Space Games. It's just like Elaine Stritch showing her legs in space. Centuries in Space Jams. No, because I think Stargate's 94. And Space Jam's not until 97. There you go. But Space Jam just has a famous old website. 96? Maybe Space Jam's 96. I think Stargate's 94, and Space Jam's not until 97. There you go. But Space Jam just has a famous old website. 96, maybe Space Jam's 96.

I think it's 96, yeah. Anyway, so he's a publishing magnate. Yep. He inherited it from his father who died. Yep. He's brash, he's arrogant. We see all these pictures, and he's like 34, which almost made me throw myself off a building. He's about to turn 33.

Because I am, right, yeah, so I am 30. 33rd birthday, Tom Cruise, while making this film, was right, yeah, so I am 30. 33rd birthday. Tom Cruise while making this film was 41, I believe. I think he's younger than that. Really? I was doing the math this morning. I think he was like late 30s. Because he's 53 now. This was 15 years ago. I'd say 39 would be my guess. Yeah, like 38, 39.

That sounds about right. Yeah. So he's playing Younger, you know, by at least half a decade. Most definitely. Yeah. Let me say this. He's supposed to be a sort of, you know, Arrested Development case, right? He's just a little, he hasn't quite, Peter Pan type. Sure.

Yeah, you know, he's still having parties and having fun and like. Having the best hair in the history of film. He was 38. Tooling around in sports cars and he's got his weird shrunken eight pack, his weird chest. It's like he worked out too much and it went wrong. That's why I don't work out. If your

body's this small and you have that many muscles it doesn't fit. Odd chest. There's no space for the muscles. And he has one friend, Jason Lee. I will also say that this is I think the rare movie where Tom Cruise one friend, Jason Lee. Yeah, I will also say that this is, I think, the rare movie where Tom Cruise with longer hair

looks better. Yeah. Because he, or looks good. He's at his best when he has the short crew cut. I agree. And you can measure

the Mission Impossible movies by the haircut. But this is the two years with long hair. Right, because in Mission Impossible 2, which he had made the year before, he's got the real long hair. And it's terrible.

It's so bad. But he does three consecutive movies. Magnolia, Mission Impossible 2, and this are all long hair, right? And there are no films in between? Right. Yeah, because in Eyes Wide Shut he's got the short hair.

Yeah, 99 to 2001 is long hair TC. So he's got long hair. He doesn't have his beard anymore. Yeah. No. Get it? Yeah, I got it.

Long hair, no beard. Took me a while. Took me a second. Yeah, I don't get it 12 comedy points Richard but then for Minority Report short yeah

and then for Last Samurai long too long the longest it had ever been like Crystal Gale like down to his ankles and then Collateral

short and peppery you know which is not a bad look no good look pretty salty if you ask me yes he went into the he said give me the Jamie Lee Curtis exactly and peppery, you know. Which is not a bad look. No, good look. Pretty salty, if you ask me. Yes.

He went into the, he said, give me the Jamie Lee Curtis. Exactly. I do think, he does look a lot like Jamie Lee Curtis in that movie. Same amount of shoulder padding in their suits, too.

I do think that, I think this is the best his hair has ever looked in a movie. I really do. Yeah, they really sell him being, I mean, it's not hard to sell Tom Cruise's this,

but he's just pitched Tom Cruise as this, but he's just pitched very well as this handsome guy who everyone is obsessed with. Yes. Even though he's a jerk. He's a jerk! Yeah. This is the last movie, I think,

where Hollywood tried to just present Tom Cruise to us as, at least for the first 30 minutes of this movie, before it inverts it and deconstructs it, for the first 30 minutes of the movie, this is the last time Hollywood was like, this is the most perfect man in the world right this guy's charming he's great looking he's fun he's funny he's confident um after that he goes more into genre stuff and then anytime he tries to do this sort of thing people flip out and everything that he does after this is is is haunted you know and and like even something like Mission Impossible 3 where he's the hero

his character is dark and like crying a lot in the last 30 minutes of the movie. His character is like weirdly tortured by his job. Minority Report is super haunted.

Yeah. After this all the performances become a guy who has failed and is trying to overcome it. Right. And before this

every Tom Cruise movie is about a guy who's winning all the time. But in terms of his publicity arc it is like until now it's been Nicole. And then this, to War of the Worlds, is the period where he's

sort of maniacally selling himself as like, I'm a normal guy who likes women and romance and I'm great. And then War of the Worlds is where it all really implodes. And then that's the end of him doing that. I also think it's interesting that the Nicole Kidman thing was like,

this is the love of a century. Yeah, man. They're the two great movie stars in love, adopting kids. Hashtag the two great movie stars. The two great movie stars, hashtag. That was the first hashtag. That was the very first hashtag. It's crazy how they invented that when Al Gore invented the internet.

Yeah, on the Stargate website. That was what they posted on the Stargate website. They went through the Stargate. It was the flash intro. Al Gore owns the only known Stargate. I That was what they posted on the Stargate website. They went through the Stargate. It was the flash intro. Al Gore owns the only known Stargate. I don't know if you know that. And as he invented the internet, Roland Emmerich was like, I should make a movie out of this. You know what the bad news is?

It's the Atlantis round. With Kurt Russell. Al Gore lives in Jay Davidson's guest house, right? Yeah. He tried for SG-1 and he's only got Atlantis. He can only go underwater in his Stargate wait Kurt Russell's in Stargate I was gonna say with Kurt Russell of all people

that was probably his last big action epic that hit sure yeah I think that might be right 94 the thing I was gonna say is they presented the like the Cruise and Kidman thing as like they are madly in love this is a serious adult relationship and the Cruise and Kidman thing as like they are madly in love. This is a serious adult relationship.

And the Cruz and Cruz thing, I remember being more like they just can't stop fucking. Yeah, for sure. Hot caliente. Well, exactly. It had a tinge of a sort of exoticism to it. No question. But there was also because you look at like Katie Holmes was introduced as I'm in love with her. I'm going to marry her.

She was the girl next door who you settled down with. But the second he announced they were dating it was like we're gonna get married. Penelope Cruz they always positioned it as like this is his rebound fling. And the positioning was always like they can't stop fucking. These guys the two of them, ooh it's just hot. This was Tom Cruise colon sexual being.

Yes. And this movie is kind of Tom Cruise colon sexual being. I mean one of the opening things is he just spent the night with Cameron Diaz and they had sex four times like normal men and women. That means something. That means something. Like normal men and women. That's what they do. They have sex four times in a night. Like a common island woman.

So he's having a fling. This might be the first movie where I heard the term fuck buddy because I think Sexuality had not done it yet. Let's talk about Jason Lee in this movie, who is the one who says it. Holy shit. Why is that? Well, he's in the movie partly because of his ties to Scientology, I believe.

And Cameron Crowe. Had just done Almost Famous. Yeah. And he's also in this movie to make Tom Cruise seem like a normal guy who has a friend who he chats with. That's right. I mean, this character is- Adds a little levity.

Admittedly in Abrelo Sojos. There's the same character with the same mechanic where he's kind of like a downloaded guy. But literally any actor of Jason Lee or even a higher stature at the time would have taken that role. So it's just interesting that it's him. That it's Jason Lee. I guess he was big at the time-ish. I mean, certainly Hollywood was trying to make him happen, right? Yeah. I mean, the thing was- I've ragged's him. That it's Jason Lee? I guess he was big at the time. I mean, certainly Hollywood was trying to make him happen,

right? Yeah, I mean, the thing was... I've ragged on him. I actually like Jason Lee in this. I like him a lot

in Almost Famous. I've kind of forgotten good Jason Lee. Yeah. He's great in Almost Famous. So I think he's really good in that. He's okay in this.

I mean, he works. It's kind of an impossible character to play. Well, I was talking to this about, I was talking with Richard about this.

He is everything, he represents the movie's struggle. I agree. Which is that sometimes he has to be like, hey man, ah, fuck buddy, ha ha ha, we're friends and it's light, lighthearted. And then he's like, I am dark and miserable and angry at you.

And then like, he's a third thing. The problem is the character's a sad sack and the movie never wants him to be depressing. Well, except when it does, like, suddenly, for a second, need him to be, like, super mad or super depressing. But it's always cut so quickly that it doesn't really register. I mean, I remember the thing being at that time. He has no sense of tone at all.

Well, but I kind of like that. So I believe shortly after this is Jason Lee's first, like, leading man vehicle, which is a guy thing which bombs and disappears. Right. Right? Yeah. And they gave him a couple more shots after that before he then went to TV

and became father to three chipmunks, and that's his career now, right? That's exactly right. No, you're forgetting my name is Earl. I said went to TV. Oh, okay. Yeah. He stopped trying to be a leading man in movies once he went to My Name is Earl and then just became the live action guy in family films.

But I remember feeling reassured by the fact that he was in this movie when I saw it. I was like, oh, good. This movie has like a deep roster of people that I like. And he felt like a cool guy at the time. I remember when a guy thing was coming out, there was some like. I have never heard of a guy thing. It was him and Julius Stahls and Selma Blair. Great.

And it was like, this is Jason Lee's breakout. Like it was like a romantic comedy where he was the guy. The film was called 2002. Yes. Exactly. Right. Yeah. We were all young once.

Yeah. Starring Jason Lee. Time capsule the movie. Things you'll forget if we hadn't put it on a post-it. Jason Biggs played a role. Yeah. Richard is 33. It's a movie.

Oh, my god. The Entertainment Weekly summer preview or spring preview or whatever it was for a guy thing, they said we were worried when we cast him because we knew he was the best at playing the best friend in movies. And we said if we cast him as the lead, then who will play the best friend? Who indeed? It was Tom Cruise.

Watching Vanilla Sky, I was like, oh, that was his role at this time. We're like, this guy's good to play a best friend. Yeah. And I remember Kevin Smith talking about casting him

in Mallrats when he like hadn't really acted before and he said he came in and he couldn't act whatsoever but I thought he was so cool I hired him

because I wanted him to be my friend. There you go. And I think like that was Jason Lee's energy in movies at this time was like, he comes on screen,

the character's totally inconsistent. Hey man! But you go like, I want to hang out with this guy. like, he comes on screen, the character's totally inconsistent. Hey, man. But you go like, I want to hang out with this guy. He feels like a guy would be fun to get drinks with. You guys know how Jason Lee came up, right? Skateboarding, bro. Yep. Hell yeah.

Shredding real hard. He was pretty funny in some videos, though. I remember him being like a standout guy in some of the skate videos I used to watch. Did you park up at the drive-thru when he got on screen? You were like, hold on, babe. My boy Lee's on screen. Hell yeah. Are you doing okay, Ben?

Yeah, I'm fine. It's called projection, Griffin. Yep. All right, so David's having a fling with Julie Giuliani. Great name. Julie Giuliani. Great. Do you think she represents

Mayor Julie? I sure do. Yeah. She fucked up the city. Drove the city off a cliff or off a bridge. Now here's Cameron. There's also that scene

where she built a Disney store on Tom Cruise's dick. That's right. And she bans ferrets. Yes. And she has a weird scene where she does drag on SNL. Yeah.

So here's who Cameron Diaz plays in the film. She plays a woman who had sex with Tom Cruise. You do not know her job? No, she talks about auditioning. And she's got a CD. She recorded an album. I forgot about her album.

Can I borrow a few? She's a crazy creative woman. Right, yes. She's basically just arm candy for him. He's fooling around. You are forgetting one very important detail about her character. She swallowed his cum. She did.

And that means something. And that means something. Your body makes a promise. Like the craziest monologue in the world. It's great, and she delivers it beautifully. She does. She does a great job. Anyway, so she turns into a stalker, and he kind of jokes about it, but then it turns real.

And he throws a party. I guess it's a birthday party. For his birthday. And his pal, his beaten down pal, Jason Lee, brings a girl who he met at a bar or something. He met earlier that night.

Yeah. Yeah. And she's played, of course, by the island woman herself. Exactly. She's wearing an oversized coat. Oh,

she's got great coats in this movie. She's got some coats in this movie. Her final coat is really the best. Her bit is coats. Yeah. For some reason, Cameron Crowe was movie. Her final coat is really the best. Her bit is coats. Yeah. For some reason, Cameron Crowe is like, coats, you're going to wear a lot of weird coats. He does get kind of obsessed with certain items of clothing

after this point. Go on. Because Aloha has a similar thing with the hat. Tom Cruise wears a hat in this movie. Oh, yeah. Tom Cruise wears the hell out of a hat in this movie. It is a bucket hat. I don't even know what to say about this hat

It looks like the hat that the lead singer Of the New Radicals wore I was going to say Len but New Radicals Is a better Paul I was about to make the same joke with Len But New Radicals What is that hat? Well he's got the dreamers disease

That's what happened He doesn't know how to wear it It's covering his eyes and he obviously is like and he's not wearing it earlier that day like it just sort of appears

can I throw something out can I throw out a theory as if he stopped at a hat store on the way to work he was like that one can I throw out a theory jokes aside I screenshotted it

we'll look at the hat we'll tweet the hat out can I throw out a theory? Jokes aside. Can I borrow a feeling? Sure, here you go. Thanks. I got too many right now.

What's your theory? Is that hat a conscious reference to New Radicals? Because this is a movie about Tom Cruise having the Dreamers disease, quite literally. Let's just... I don't even know. What do we do? I don't know. I have to go forever

you have to leave the country that's what happens after that alright so he meets Penelope Kruth at a party and she's magic

and he's just like who's this and they're playing Salisbury Heart and she says Salisbury Hill and his heart goes boom boom boom

oh the music the music in this movie is until the end, like, dreadful. It's terrifying. It's Crow doing his thing. I think Crow is now, because the Almost Famous soundtrack

is really great. I like the Almost Famous soundtrack. Beautiful, yeah. And I used to listen to it a lot, even though I wasn't as big a fan of the movie. I just loved the soundtrack. Great soundtrack.

So I think Cameron Crowe is now very high on himself as the soundtrack guy. You know? He always was a music guy. I mean, it makes sense. Of course he was always a music guy. But I think Almost Famous was a really big deal.

And he was now famous for like playing music while filming and stuff. And then Wes Anderson came and took that crown away from him. I guess so. Became like the music guy. Every scene in this movie, big scene, is set to some fucking song from the 90s. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. And it's just like loudly banging on the soundtrack.

And you're like, I got it already. I mean, I think everything in its right place works okay at the start, the Radiohead song. And I think the end works. I'm surprised they don't do, is this my house? Is this my beautiful life? Doesn't it? Maybe it's in the trailer. The family man was about to do that

for Nicolas Cage. Underrated movie. Agreed. Bella Bambina, two o'clock. Do you know that... He says to Taylor Leone. Do you know that Tom Hanks sings that song in Hologram for the King?

No, didn't see that one. That's the cold open of the movie is Tom Hanks going, this is not my beautiful house. That's right. I like that movie. I do too. I didn't see it. I think's the cold opening of the movie is Tom Hanks going, this is not my beautiful house. That's right. I like that movie. I do too. I didn't see it.

I think that movie's really good. Interesting little Tom Tickver. Tom Tickver, yeah. Clown Atlas. Yeah, our old buddy. Of episode seven of Sense8. And Sarita Chowdhury of Lady in the Water. Yeah.

Wow, I love her. It's a movie about all of our old friends working together. Okay. So he meets, meet cutes. He really meet cutes with Kruth. Yeah.

Takes her up to his second apartment. Yeah. He's got the party apartment. And then she takes him to her apartment. Yeah. Same night. Yeah. And she's like,

she's a little destitute. So she can only afford one whole floor of a loft in Tribeca or Dumbo or whatever the fuck it is. And I love that the first line that scene is, I just have to work all the time in order to afford this. You know, it's like they're making it clear that like, okay, she's got a great apartment, but she's giving up a lot for it. Right.

Oh, yeah. It's not easy. To have, you know, two loft spaces smushed together. That's how she needs to take- Like, where does she get off making fun of Tom Cruise where he barely has more square footage than she does and he owns a magazine

I just love that she needs to take she's a dental hygienist right that's her fifth job because the fifth job is the one that pushes her over the hill

into making two million dollars a month she's a dancer and a puffy coat model and you know what else does she do she's an illustrator she does caricatures

on the boardwalk yeah oh that's such a weird that is a weirdly revealing scene it's never established so they go back model and you know what else she's an illustrator she does caricatures on the boardwalk yeah oh that's such a weird they draw each other revealing it's never established so they go back to the apartment and they they're just doing all kinds of different kinds of flirting it's like 20 minutes you know um terence malik tells their his actors to just sort of improvise movement and so everyone ends up twirling or like doing free trust falls by the side of the road which actually happens in To The Wonder

I feel like they just were in this loft all day and he was like okay just like flirt and like do cute things and of course they were madly in love

at the time so they're like oh they couldn't stop fucking each other it was so hard for them to film because they just go cut and then they fuck each other yeah exactly

go on Richard so they're doing all kinds of they just go cut and then they fuck each other. Yeah, exactly. Go on, Richard. So they're doing all kinds of things, you know, whatever. And then one of them is just drawing each other. It's never been established that David Ames can draw. No. And yet he can. Beautifully.

Penelope Cruz draws like a boardwalk style. Like a perfect inked. Like the Santa Monica Pier. Of Tom Cruise as a giant grinning mouth. Like surrounded by women. By women and money and dollar signs. She's the king Monica Pier. Of Tom Cruise's giant grinning mouth. Like surrounded by women. She's the king of sting. And then they turn around and look at Tom Cruise's drawing. And it's just like a beautiful little pencil. A very thoughtful.

Very thoughtful, considerate. Sketch. Yes. Of Penelope Cruz. So they fall in love. In a night. Or it's implied. They have one perfect night.

But they don't have sex. They kiss once and she instigates it, interestingly. Because he asked for her to pay him with one kiss for that drawing. Madame, I'll charge you one kiss. God, this movie is... Nothing's happening in the movie except it's being narrated by a guy in a rubber mask. Death. Spall.

Everything's happening. Oh, Spall's at the party. Yeah. He's his lawyer. Timothy Spall. It's being narrated by a guy in a rubber mask. Life, sex, friendship, death, Spall. Everything's happening. Oh, Spall's at the party. Yeah. He's his lawyer. Timothy Spall. He's his lawyer, and he's like, oh, the seven dwarves. So there's the seven dwarves, guys. Who were at the board of the magazine.

The seven dwarves. And they think he's just some rich kid. They own 49% of the company, and they want that extra 1.1% thereafter. He's a little fuck up. And so Spall is like, oh, they want to get rid of you.

I'm telling you because I love you. Shit buddy. Yeah, you know. Turner. And Cruz turns to his assistant and he goes like,

give him a promotion. Promote that man, yes. 70% corner office. He's my best friend in the world. Right. And,

why did we talk about Timothy Spall? Well, they're just establishing that there's problems. Oh, they want him out. The problems of the magazine. Yeah. Yeah. There's trouble in paradise. So anyway, this sort of just continues.

Mm-hmm. And then he gets in the car with Cameron Diaz. Well, the next morning he leaves Family Proofs' apartment. And Cameron Diaz had been at the party. Yeah. And she sees him had been at the party. Yeah, and she sees them. Sneaks in and she's angry that he didn't invite her and is like, don't worry about it. I'll punish you with sex.

And he's like, eh, eh, eh. And that's the whole cute thing with Penelope Cruz. He goes up to her and he's like, I need you to talk to me. This woman's stalking me. I'm gonna take her away. Whatever. I also think it's important that Cruz says

that he didn't sleep with Penelope Cruz because he's a pleasure delayer. And Kurt Russell will not drop that. There's a long conversation where he's like, what does that mean? And he's like, you know. And he explains it because he wants to hear it. But Tom Cruise likes leaving him hanging so that he waits

until the moment where he can't help but pounce. Very Sting and Trudy Styler. Yeah, I forgot about that. I don't like that. It's gross. So anyway, Cameron Diaz is waiting there in the car. She's followed him to the police department. In a nice car. And in one of the movie's most baffling things,

he decides, Tom Cruise decides to get in the car with her. He's charmed. Despite very obviously the night before being aware that she is out of her mind. But he's like, yeah, sure, I'll get in a car with you. You know what? That felt like a real bro moment, though, because she was talking to him about how he's not, yeah, sure, I'll get in a car with you. You know what? That felt like a real bro moment, though, because she was talking to him about how he's not getting laid, obviously.

Right. So I think that was the motivation there. They're bro-ing out. Jason Lee was late. He's hoping for some FDR drive roadhead or whatever. Yep. Sure. Yeah.

Ben knows all about doing it in cars. Nailed it, Richard. All right. So then she crashes the car It's uneventful Yeah She gives a great monologue

sort of thing Quite a monologue You just You learn that she's crazy It's great It's the most electrifying part of the movie It is

Until the very end It is And then you know When you have sex your body makes a promise Yeah That's why you're coming It means something

Yep That means something yep that means something and she starts going faster and faster and he Cruz is good in that scene he's really good it's a well done scene

where he's like laughing he's like get the fuck out of here he's like trying to shatter the illusion then he's like fine I love you I love you

I'm in love with you slow down it's good it's scary the beats of the escalation are well done yeah Cruz does a good job and then the crash is kind of good too because it's a realistic crash yeah it's not like i mean they drive off a bridge like and hit the ground and it looks bad yeah but

it's not like you can imagine someone walking away and they just hold on the shot of the crash car and then the background you see people slowly starting to run i think that's really good great shot yeah This one captures New York pretty well. Yeah, everyone drives hot rods around the abandoned Riverside Drive, right?

Yeah, it captures New York perfectly. That shit's insane. Maybe I just... This movie does not capture New York very well. It captures a certain type of New York

very well. Yeah, fake. I think it captures a lonely, autumnal New York in a way that... There are leaves. Many leaves. I think it captures a lonely autumnal New York in a way that... There are leaves. Many leaves. I think it's an impressionistic capturing of how New York can feel sometimes.

Yeah. A movie that's sort of like, you know, Bruce Madeline, you know, where he's just trying to get back to this one thing. Yeah. The city never sort of seems very offering of anything else. Yes. Okay. So then... thing yeah the city never sort of seems very offering of anything else yes uh okay so then hard cut to cruise wakes up what's the next thing we um hard cut to there's a dream where he meets sophia in central park and describes like i got in this car crash like you know and then we cut to

the real world where his face has been like ripped up and repaired with all these like pins in his head and there was a chance they could have um saved him like intact but um he was in a coma so they couldn't wake him to do the surgery right and so he kind of had to suffer the consequences of that right yep yeah he's he's got he's got droopy face like we basically cut to him giving this big lecture to all these doctors in medical jargon. Yeah. So where he's like, I figured it all. You have to learn and you have to be on their level.

Well, I think before that is when you see him from behind. You don't see his face and he's Skyping with Timothy Spall. Yeah. And Spall's like, they can take the remaining percent. There's a loophole. If you're mentally deficient or whatever. And I'm talking to you and you're doing great.

Why don't you just come in, show them all you're doing fine. Right. And then the camera turns around, you see him. Yeah. He's not doing great. Yeah, he doesn't look great.

Goes to the doctors, chews them out. It's like, I mean, one of the cruisiest scenes in the movie. Oh, and the way he delivers the line when they show him the mask. Yes.

He's like, oh, that's good because for a second I thought we were talking about a fucking mask. A fucking mask. Yeah, it's good because for a second I thought we were talking about a fucking mask. A fucking mask! And he does a cut out to a wide shot. And he does a full cruise jumping up and down. Like he does the, it's

a hint of the couch jump. It's a teaser. But it's also very reminiscent of the Flipper monologue in Jeremiah. From Flipper where he played Elijah Wood in Flipper? Oh, from Flipper. From Flipper, where he played Elijah Wood in Flipper.

Yeah, that's right. You know, where he goes, do you think I'm just going to freak out? And he like does that weird spasm. He's going to spasm. This is another movie

that lets him be short, by the way. Cameron Crowe, he's cool with being short. I love it. Jason Lee is taller than him in every, you know, noticeable.

Love it. Okay, I'm glad you love it. Maybe one of the things I like about this movie is about a short guy. So, then the movie gets really weird. It's kind of hard to,

it's kind of hard to go through the plot. pick up a narrative. So basically, he goes out with Jason Lee and Penelope Cruz to kind of cheer him up because he'd been sort of

following her around town. Right. Becoming the stalker, in essence. Yes. When he shows up at the dance studio without the mask.

Yeah, and she's sort of hides her horror she's friendly she kills that scene she's so good in that scene that scene's incredible because she's being really friendly to him

but she can't help but be freaked out and sad yeah so she's like crying yeah and she's trying to be warm to him

yeah and I think she actually plays those several scenes very well where she's very believably trying to be friendly trying trying to act like everything's okay, but clearly something has changed. And not just because of his looks, but she recognizes some kind of new darkness in him or whatever. So yeah, she actually is really good in that stretch of the movie. Yeah, yes, 100%.

I agree. And Cruise is really leaning into being a creepo. That's because the movie's putting less on their romance. I kind of feel like in the same way that, you know, Pirates of the Caribbean, Depp was never able to shake that. Cate Blanchett has not yet been able to shake playing Blanche Dubois on stage, especially because she had repeated it again in Blue Jasmine. Right. I kind of feel like Cruise didn't shake something from this movie. Well, the combination of Eyes Wide Shut Magnolia and this he never

he never stopped being a little scary here's something and the movies where he's scary like Minority Report like Collateral like the Mission Impossible

sequels yeah are the ones that we like Edge of Tomorrow doesn't fit that Edge of Tomorrow is more of a movie

he almost could have made in 1990 right where it's like Tom Cruise is a jerk. And then he turns into a good guy. But the film is better because he made it now. No, I agree.

I'm just saying. I know. It fits into the archetype, but the reason that movie works on a whole other level is because we know that Cruise desperately wants us to like him again. Yeah. No, I know. That he has something at stake. I agree that this movie's kind of like the ultimate Tom Cruise performance.

stake I agree that this movie's kind of like the ultimate Tom Cruise performance like it's the cruisiest cruise because the first chunk of it is just cashing in how much we love him how aspirational he is how effortlessly charming he is and then the second half is just like the thing we always sort of feared was underneath underneath Tom Cruise yeah you know the thing we were worried he was repressing and And to his credit, he lets it out. And I don't know what turn he took in his career

that he decided he wanted to go that route. But then I think he never fully gets it back in the bottle. He always has to be a haunted man to some degree.

The bell could not be in his best movies now. It has to be someone who desperately wants people to think that he's normal. So watching the movie now as dated as Crow's input feels

between the music and the dialogue that feels very vague, I mean, it probably gave birth to Garden State, that kind of thing. The dialogue is often very clunky. The cats thing. Oh, when we are all cats or both cats? What the fuck is that? I hate that. And he says that's the best thing anyone's ever said i hate it because cameron crowe then writes a line complimenting his own awful line and that happens basically that's

penelope cruz's entire character i mean she finds other beats to play but like the way she's written it's just like i'm gonna show what a good writer i am of charming yeah right right and then people are gonna call it charming. It's a really weird thing. I'll see you in another life when we are both cats. That's the scene at the club where Jason Lee comes as a wingman to her because he's a little... She's freaked out by him.

He gets way too drunk. He's wearing the mask. He puts the mask on the back of his head. That's the best use of the mask. It's really creepy. Very cool image when you cut to behind him. W. Earl Brown, one of my favorite character actors, plays the bartender who won't make eye contact

with him. And yeah, he just kind of loses it, gets real sloppy. And crashes out in the gutter. Falls asleep. Literally in the gutter.

And then the movie turns. But doesn't he run after and see the two of them hooking up? Or is that a fantasy? Okay, I couldn't figure that out. He thinks that Jason Lee and Penelope Cruz

are behind his back because, you know, they were dating, I guess. They had been dating for a few hours before. Jason Lee tells him off, is like, dude, it's someone you met once.

You have to get over her. You're freaking her out. Which is fair, but also, like, you know, the man literally looks like a monster. Yeah. So, you know,

kind of a little slack. Yeah. Jeez. Well, I think it's finally Jason Lee's, you know, kind of a little slack. Jeez. Well, I think it's finally Jason Lee's, the character's. It's my turn. Right. Penelope Cruz will date guys like me now that you turned into the elephant man. But then he wakes up the next morning on the streets of Dumbo.

And Penelope Cruz is just walking down the street with her, you know, bags full of cash. And the sky. It's a beautiful vanilla. It's a beautiful vanilla sky. A vanilla sky. Exactly. That's what Timothy Spall says. Vanilla sky.

And everything's perfect. Or it gets toward perfect. Penelope gives him love with him. He gets surgery and hey, his face is perfect. And everything seems to be going well. And this is a long montage of just romance between them. This is when I think we have the birthmark scene. Yeah.

The mole scene. It's a sleepy time. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very Cameron Crowe-y. Yeah. You got the Dylan cover, album cover sequence. Yeah.

The street walking, but it's not. Freewheeling Bob Dylan. Yeah. Can we bring up, I know we've gone past it, but Timothy Spall tells him that his nickname amongst the seven dwarves.

Your nickname is fucking dildo. Citizen dildo. Citizen dildo, yeah. Which A is very close to citizen dick from singles. True. And B doesn't make sense as a nickname. No. Why would they call him that? I don't know. Dildo, yeah. Which A, is very close to Citizen Dick from Singles. True. And B, doesn't make sense as a nickname. No.

Like, why would they call him that? I don't know. Dildo. Citizen Dildo is weird because it's like Captain Shithead. Are they calling him a dildo because he's an inanimate object who, like, women use to get off? But citizen is a weird modifier. I thought it was like Citizen Kane kind of reference. But then call him, like, Citizen like Citizen like Crap or whatever.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like Citizen Dildo isn't like sort of alliterative or doesn't have the same sort of ring to it. Sure. It's got an extra like syllable, you know? Citizen Dick would work better. Right. Citizen Dildo is weird because usually you say like Professor Shithead. Like you give him like a fake like hoity-toity title and then a shitty word.

Oh, I got it. Citizen Queef. Yeah, Citizen Queef works. Yeah. Citizen Dildo's a weird name. But dildo is a knowable instrument, so it doesn't, yeah, as a citizen. I take that as a compliment. Thank you.

And queefs are perfectly natural. And citizen of the people. You know, you're not, you don't think you're better than us. You're a citizen of the dildos. So now, I think this film has a very relatable moment that I just want to talk about. Yeah. We've all been there. We're having a nice day.

When someone swallows your cum and it means something. We're having a nice day. We go to a restaurant and Noah Taylor won't stop talking to us. And it's really freaky. And he goes, these people, why do you think they're all here? You chose them. They're here for you. You're a god.

And he goes, if that's the case, then why won't they all shut up? And then everyone goes super quiet. And he realizes that things are wrong. Yep. And he starts seeing, we all think that Cameron Diaz is out of the movie because her character's dead. But then, no. He starts

seeing her. She's replacing Penelope Cruz. Yes. And most horrifically when they're having sex. Yes. That's quite a scene actually. Well, it's also like. And also he's seeing his face is disfigured again for a second. And then it.

Yeah. This is the other picture I'll post to our Twitter account that I took from my TV when they're having sex and she does this to him. Oh, yeah. When she runs her fingers like through his mouth. She like smooshes his face like it's made of silly putty. Which means something. That's her body making a promise.

I promise to smoosh your face. Yeah, so this is all really creepy and weird. Because then he attacks her maybe. It's also jumping back and forth, looping between this stuff and him in jail. You're basically piecing together what happened.

Effectively, though? Yeah, I guess so. I feel like the movie's doing what it's got to do. But it's kind of hurried. I think it's very hurried. I don't think it makes any sense. Yeah, and so basically we find out eventually that he's in jail for allegedly killing Penelope Cruz,

or was she Cameron Diaz the whole time? But this is my problem with it, is you're like, well, it wasn't. It's Penelope Cruz or was she Cameron Diaz the whole time? But like, this is my problem with it is you're like, well, it wasn't. No. It's Penelope Cruz. I mean,

and also it's probably just some weird nightmare that he's having. Cause Noah Taylor was yelling at him just then. Yeah. Right. We've already know this is all weird. Right. This is my big problem with this movie. And Abraela Sohos does not have this problem so much is that I think the ending is supposed

to be ambiguous where it's like what is this that he's in and it's like not we're like we know what it is it's pretty explicit that well he has paid to be in a dream state right exactly and like I just he's got the dreamers disease that's right yeah I have to leave again

we should also say he's not taken off the hat for the entire whole movie even the sex scenes it doesn't even fall off in the car crash this hat is a masterpiece it's the craziest thing I've ever seen

it's in two shots what costumer presented this to Tom Cruise and he was like great at the end after the end credits there's a bonus scene

where they are coming back as cats in the next life still wearing a hat cat in a hat okay i'm leaving now no one's left in the studio yeah we've recorded this over four years because we kept having to leave the country and then wait a while and then come back and then you pick up the podcast um yeah timothy spall goes to visit him yeah timothy spall goes to visit him in jail yeah and he's like everything's we took care of it i took care of it but you really beat the shit out of cameron diaz as your friend i want you to understand the enormity of what you did i want you to take

responsibility and he's like here are the pictures i'm gonna burn them we paid everyone off it's fine but you should fucking feel guilty and he shows shows these really gross pictures of Cameron Diaz who has just been beaten to a pulp. Right. Which we did not see. That's not Sophia. That's not Sophia. That's not Sophia. Right. And Spall's like, you just need to take responsibility. Right. And then Jason Lee

gets in a fight with him. Yes. And is like, this is the last time I'm ever going to talk to you. Jason Lee bails him out. Yeah. Says like, don't fucking hit a woman. Yeah. And he keeps being told that he's calling out the name Ellie. Ellie? What's Ellie?

Oh, it stands for L-E. Oh, by the way, also throughout the movie, there have been commercials randomly. Everyone's watching all the time where some scientist is like, this dog was frozen in ice. You see the dog on Conan. And then I thawed the dog out from the ice. All these hints. I should also mention that an Ellie confusion had happened three years prior in a far superior film called Deep Impact.

That's correct. That's correct. I was going to say that. That was E-L-E. This is just L-E. But it was called Ellie. Look, I mean, I think, personally, I think Morgan Freeman

was having an affair with a woman called Ellie. Yeah, it was weird. I was watching Vanilla Sky. And he just arranged for the meteor to cover it up. Spin! I was watching this movie, Vanilla Sky, today, this morning. I'm sorry, I believe you mean Vanilla Sky? Excuse me, Vanilla Sky.

Captain Crow's mandolin. Captain Vanilla's mandolin. Sky Captain and the mandolin tomorrow. Vanilla's Amanda Sky Sky Captain and the Mandolin tomorrow Vanilla Sky Captain Timothy Spall meets the Island Woman and I thought that Morgan Freeman was in this movie

for some reason I had this weird were you confusing with Bruce Almighty no there was some movie where he like takes over for some

you know annoying scion of an empire Batman Begins Dreamcatcher oh it's Batman Begins is it actually there? Oh, it's Batman Begins, yeah. Is it actually? There's a lot of boardroom shit in that.

Well, Katie Holmes, there's a connection. Yeah, very true. Didn't you get the memo? That's his big moment in that movie. Right, right. See, Rucker Hauer. He fires Rucker Hauer. You know who would have done a good job with this movie?

Christopher Nolan. Oh, I was going to say Rucker Hauer. In the lead role? Directing. Rucker Hauer now. Today. No, I think Christopher Nolan did sort of a better version

of this movie. Yes. Because this is also like a dreamlike... You mean The Dark Knight Rises, right? Yeah, that's right. Is a better version of this movie.

Yeah, and then, because the movie then gets into hard sci-fi. Just give him Timothy Spall as a great pain. Yeah, it gets into hard sci-fi. But it's been so not that leading up to it.

No, it's been a Cameron Crowe movie. It's very confusing that, oh, you're like, oh, and now the movie's just going to end and they're going to explain this thing and then that's what this has all been. And we don't really ever really feel a point. Yes. I just realized Dark Knight Rises is also about a disfigured billionaire heir who falls in love with a woman who tries to kill him. Yes.

Not the best plot in that movie, but sure. There's a couple parallels. And then at the end, he kills himself. Or does he? Yeah, that movie has a raspberry sky as the reference. Dark Knight Rises has a raspberry sky.

He's really, he's got a screw loose. I got dumped. This is brutal. I was very emotionally invested in a person and they locked the gates

dumped me I will admit I enjoyed watching Marc Maron we haven't actually recorded our almost famous episode yet but I enjoyed seeing Marc Maron lock the gates yeah we did

yeah yeah yeah I'm not gonna say that it's a pressing thing okay so oh boy fuck you no no no you know what I was gonna say I'm not gonna say it

alright so but I think you're right that the movie just turns left, hard left. I mean, all of a sudden he's in a life extension. Yeah, in an office with Tilda Swinton explaining

Tilda Swinton out of nowhere. Like this technology about cryo-freezing and then you can do a lucid dream. Because Kurt Russell tries to break him out of jail because he's like,

I've been trying to find an angle where you're not guilty. Right. I want to believe you. Sure, right. Because he's just a good, solid guy. And Tilda Sw he's like, I've been trying to find an angle where you're not guilty. I want to believe you. Right, because he's just a good, solid guy. And Tilda Swinton's like... Wait, is it Tilda Swinton or Noah Taylor who explains the To Kill a Mockingbird

thing? That's Noah Taylor. So Tilda Swinton's basically just like, we work at Life Extension and we just freeze your body when you have a disease or you die. She's like, this promo video helps. And then she presses play on a desk screen. And then it's her voice. And for a second, it's like she pressed play on the video,

but then is speaking it in the room. But it's not. It's a recording. We find out. We should say there are weird tech things. There's a lot of weird tech stuff. There's that scene where Jason Lee has a really tiny camera. It's supposed to be.

Now, I mean everyone's born with that camera in their brains but like at the time it was revolutionary oh there's a scene also

I was going to mention where Penelope Cruz runs her hands through a hologram of Louis Armstrong that is really weird I forgot about the Louis Armstrong hologram

Johnny Galecki buys it for him or he sells it to him he goes like it's really good Louis Armstrong people love it and there's that scene

where Cameron Diaz invents Snapchat. That is true. And then there's also, she's the webmaster of the Stargate website. That's the job. You were asking what her job was. There's also that scene where Timothy Spall... She's still running it. There's that scene where Timothy Spall... Well, her body made a promise

to the Stargate website. Oh my god. I was going to say there's a scene where Timothy Spall invents Snapple. I don't care. Fuck me.

Snapple? It's Snapchat. It would have worked if I had said it right after Snapchat. Oh, right after. That was my goal and it didn't fit.

Remember the Snapple craze, guys? Yeah. Remember Fruitopia? I was probably drinking Fruitopia in 2001. Yeah, it was the year of Fruitopia. I saw Snapple Lady at a play recently, an off-Broadway play.

Was it at the Snapple Theater? No, that's on Broadway. No, this was off-Broadway, baby. Come on, that was a pretty good joke in Snapple Theater. She went, fun fact, I thought that play was pretty good. Was anyone else won over by the Sprint guy, the Verizon guy going to Sprint? You mean won over as in they switched carriers? No, you did?

No, I'm already a Sprint customer. I was just impressed with that ad. I was like, this is good. Okay, so here's what I... I don't know that I've seen it. But you must have heard about it. I did hear about it. So this is a hard sidebar, but like...

Oh, this is a hard sidebar? Okay. Like six or seven years ago, a casting director reached out to me and was like, hey, I want you to audition for this thing, if you could come in. And I was like, this is weird that you're calling in advance, emailing in advance personally to tell me about it. And he was like, well, the thing is, and I have to pre-warn people about this, the writer and director of this film who's going to be in the audition

is the Can You Hear Me Now guy. Oh, okay. And he's like, the campaign has ended. He's rich. Right. He was like a theater actor. Right. And now he feels like his career is ruined.

He can't act ever again. So he wants to try to write and direct because he has a lot of money, but his face is too recognizable now. He said, I have to call everyone in advance because he's very touchy about it. No jokes. Not to invoke it. I think I even had to Skype with him,

and it was like, don't do any sort of, can you hear me now, don't even say it by accident. That was the actual warning. It was like, I was out of town, and it was like, you're going to have to Skype with him, but don't make a can you hear me now joke. And he ended up making the movie, I believe, and it didn't really land anywhere.

But that stuck with me, of like oh he's really kind of burdened by this thing that he doesn't know what to do with his career and then seeing him appear in the rival like company commercial depressed me so hard because I was like he's just fucking fine but he's making so much money

so the end of the film is beautiful and I think what sold me on the movie originally is good and it was the first time I'd ever heard Cigar Rose I believe yes it ends with Cigar

but it ends first we must say Tom Cruise just starts screaming tech support at the top of his lungs to good vibrations he takes off his mask very slowly

his face is really fucked up and he screams good vibrations which before I had seen this movie I was flipping through the channels and went oh Vanilla Sky that's that movie with Tom Cruise and Penelope Cruz, right? And then landed on him slowly handshaking, peeling the mask off as good vibrations flared. And he ran around an office screaming tech support with one dead arm.

And I went, wait, this is that movie? It sure is. I'm picking, yeah. So, yeah, Noah Taylor shows up again. Noah Taylor greets him. And then they take a long elevator ride together. It's a long elevator ride. While Noah Taylor explains the movie.

The Great Glass Elevator. Noah Taylor and the Great Glass Elevator. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That was the original work. He's playing a vermicious knid. Vermicious knid.

That's a real deep. Roll doll. Great Glass Elevator. Rolling in the doll. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So, yeah, he explains the movie to him. Yep.

That Tom Cruise, after the night at the nightclub. He almost died or did die. Well, that's right. Yeah. So we can explain some movie to him. Yep. That Tom Cruise, after the night at the nightclub. He almost died or did die? Well, so at the nightclub. Yeah. It's the nightclub. He collapsed, woke up the next day,

went to this cryo freezing place, was like, I want, give me the deluxe lucid dream package. I don't want to live anymore. Right. And then he bought this package and then he killed himself.

Yeah. Over some pills, they were able to just save him in time, it seems like, or they thought they could reverse the death. Yeah, it's confusing. He OD'd and whatever. He had like 2% mental energy left

and they hooked him up and plugged him in and dipped him in the ice. It was like in Independence Day Resurgence where they almost get our mantle, but they just miss it. Right. Right at the end.

And then the movie's like, we're fine, even though a hole has been driven to the mantle of Earth. Travis Tope. But there's like, there's like 2% of Earth's crust left. Yeah, Travis Tope.

I'm excited for the special Travis Tope episode. Oh, you're coming back for that one. What's our next main series of Travis Tope? Yeah. Well, he's in a lot. He's Hollywood's next big star.

So Noah Taylor, who was in, he's in a lot. He's Hollywood's next big star. So Noah Taylor, who was in, almost famous. Tom Cruise is frozen and has been, shockingly, for 150 years, it's explained.

It's actually 21... Which I wonder, in some ways, if that's what all that technology is about. I believe so. Is if the people who crafted this dream

for him put all this technology in because... Because they forget it's an anachronism. Do they have holograms? They had those in 2001, right? Sure, yeah, yeah.

I can't remember. I guess that's before, though. Did they have Diaz bots? Oh, but you know, that's the thing. Oh, we don't really know when anything was. So, and then everything

we've seen, whether it's them walking down the street, which is just crafted from Tom Cruise or David Ames loving a Bob Dylan album, Jules and Jim.

It's all Penelope Cruz's behavior. And her coats. The vanilla sky comes from the Monet. The scene where Nicolas Cage is yelling in Italian is Captain Crow's mandolin. His favorite movie. And you've got Kurt Russell as Atticus Finch. That's right.

All that stuff. Noah Taylor, he was just a big Shine fan so he was like, I want my tech support to be Noah Taylor. I want it to be young Shine. Can I talk about a sequence I liked? When they show Tom Cruise trying to commit suicide, overdosing on the pills. Yeah.

And his life flashes. Customer service to be Armin Muller's star. Yeah. Go ahead. His life flashes before his eyes. And it's a mix of moments from his life and pop culture he loved. Yeah. I think that's a very Crow moment.

Yeah, that's what Cameron Crowe thinks his death is going to be like. That's 100% what my death is going to be like. It's going to be equal measure the person who dumped me two days ago and Toy Story. And they do it when he jumps off the building too. I found that montage of images, both personal and pop culture, to be moving at the time. Very moving. And today, I was sitting on the couch kind of like,

this movie is sort of sillier than I remember. And then that sort of grabbed you. And then that last bit, elevator on up when they get to the roof and he has to make this big decision. It choked me up. It's a very red pill decision, by the way. Oh, yeah.

He's a total red pill movement kind of guy. I sat forward on the couch, turned the volume up because my Sigur Rós song that I like was playing and I think those last 15, 20 minutes are really effective. I do too and I like,

you know, Crow obviously cares about pop culture a lot. That's how he got into everything was being a fan first of these things and being someone who's very emotionally

affected by art and wants to make art that's very emotionally affecting and I do like that the movie is about a guy who just like, his life collapses and he just goes like, just put me in that movie I like.

Sure. Make it feel like that song. That's a good read. That's a good read. You know? I think I want this movie to be more sci-fi. I think it would probably have me more. I think if they had-

Because the sci-fi elements would grab me the most. I think that, I think this movie's problem is it doesn't introduce it early enough. Yeah, I agree. Even if, it doesn't have to be explicit, but I think that the hints about the existence of this, it needs to be woven into the texture of the movie sooner because-

They're a little clunky. It just feels like kind of like a deus ex machina at the very end of the movie. It's the biggest info dump, yeah. Because there's nothing in the movie after it. Yeah. It's just like they go to the office, then he's in the elevator, it's being explained to him, then he's on the roof, then he jumps and the movie just ends. You're dead, I'm frozen, I'm in love

with you. Again, it's how Abre los Ojos works to a T, down to him jumping and open your eyes, like being on last lines. Crow's putting a lot more on the plate, right? That sort of distracts from it. The movie's longer. And there's more stuff. He's exploring more ideas on top of it. There's more cruise-y stuff.

Yeah. Okay, so here's the thing I really like about this movie. This is my read. In addition to the fact that it's a movie about a guy who, you know, wants to live in a movie, I think what's fascinating about this film is that, like, the first 30 or 40 minutes are, like, full tilt crow. It's like, here's a guy who just, like, has this charmed life. You know, it's the car. It's the song playing. It's the girl. It's the charming bon mots. It's all of here's a guy who just has this charmed life. You know, it's the car. It's the song playing. It's the girl.

It's the charming bon mots. It's all of that. Sure. And then his life crumbles, and the rest of the movie is a guy trying to make his life like a Cameron Crowe movie again. Yeah, that's true. That's a good read.

I don't mind that read. I think I just wish it was more good at that. Do you think it's that aware of itself? Yeah, exactly. I do. I do. I think it's that aware of itself? Yeah, exactly. I do, I do. I think it's a very, very dark movie about a guy who's living this very charmed life and doesn't have any awareness

of sort of what his impact on the world is, you know? Right. As shown by the fact that he's so sort of carelessly toying with Cameron Diaz, who clearly has these emotions for him, so carelessly fucking with Jason Lee, you know, and always sort of one upping him and everything the people

closest to him are the people he pays sort of the least care to and he has to pay a price for that it fucks him over and he resents the fact that he can no longer live this charmed storybook Cameron Crowe kind of life and so he needs to do it again

and again it keeps on going wrong. The storybook part doesn't last long enough and isn't interesting enough. That's part of the problem. And then the nightmare part is kind of interesting but it's very brief. It's like 10 minutes. I think the place where it works, and we can say that it's a little forced because they're trying so hard

to push the sexual chemistry between Cruise and Cruise on us, but I do like the movie invests like 20 solid minutes into this one night they have together that it isn't like here's a three minute scene that tells you they had a night together i like that you like are in the night yeah it's a little forced big dick okay well there is something prophetic though about um what you're saying about trying to get back to a Cameron Crowe movie because you would spend the next, well you guys

will talk about it on this podcast, you'll spend the next 15 years trying to do just that. And also Cruise would spend the next 15 years trying to get back to the Cruise in the first 30 minutes of this movie. So this movie, in that light, is Cameron Crowe. He did as well. I agree, 100%. But it also is, he became, the movies got better when he stopped trying to be

33-year-old Tom Cruise who everyone loves and started playing the tension a little more of his persona. It's kind of heartbreaking to think about the movie in that context. It's like these two guys who didn't know that they were making a movie about their future. Yeah. Ooh, maybe they're going to wake up. I think it's a fascinating movie. Let's play the box office game.

Okay. Because it's a game about December 14, 2001. Okay, so Harry Potter. The Middle of the Sky was the number one movie. Made 25. Wow. So it even multiplied pretty well. 750 of that was for me.

100 on the nugget, and then I think it did an additional $150 overseas? No, $100,000. $100,000? Versus $203 million worldwide. Oh, a clean 203. A gentleman's 203. Budget was $68 million. Hey, good return on investment.

It did fine. It did fine. It was seen as, I think... Most of that was in the coats. Exactly. Penelope's coats, right? The 68 was on the coats. The movie mostly grossed among island women.

The worldwide gross. I swear to God, I'm going to protest. So number one in December 14th, Vanilla Sky. Number two had been number one the week before. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban? No, it hasn't come out yet. Oh, no, it had. It had.

Yes, thank you. Is it in the 10? It's in the 10. But it's not in the five? It's in the five. But it's not in the two. Monsters, Inc.? Nope. Is that still in the 10? That's six the 10. But it's not in the 5? It's in the 5. But it's not in the 2. Monsters, Inc.? Nope.

Is that still in the 10? That's 6. Okay. And which Harry Potter was it? It was the original one, Sorcerer's Stone. Right. Or Philosopher's Stone, depending on which country you were living in at the time. I was living in Britain.

So he saw the Philosopher's Stone. Okay, number 2 was number 1 the previous weekend. Was that the first and only weekend it was number one? Yes. Is it a live action or animated film? Live action. Live action. 2001.

It's a rip snorting adventure. Ensemble piece. It's not Lord of the Rings. No. That comes out the following weekend. Yes. It's got a lot of sandwich eating and Andy Garcia. Oh, Ocean's Eleven.

Ocean's Eleven. You're never going to guess number three. I can't believe this movie came out in December. Not Domestic Disturbance, right? No. Is that in the ten? That's 13. Okay.

The interesting guess. Give me one hint. It's got Chris Evans in it in it not another team yes that came out in december well it was an oscar play opening weekend it made 12 million dollars i remember my that movie would have done so much better if it just opened in january yeah anna faris want to say sorry i worked for that she's not in that one. Is she not? That scary movie. Oh, sorry. The female lead in that routine movie is Kyler Lee. It is Kyler Lee, of course.

Fuck. Well, would have been a great joke, Richard. Now the star of Supergirl. Hey, look, the French gave Anna Ferris a César award for it. If she's not in it, I don't... She accepted it. Look, she showed up. Take that up with the French. Your joke wasn't wrong.

Their award was. That's right. You've got Harry Potter in there. Number five, you've got Behind Enemy Lines. The Owen Wilson war film. Remember when Owen Wilson was in a war film about Bosnia? Remember when they remade that as Stealth and Jessica Biel played the

Behind Enemy Lines part? Have you seen Stealth? Yeah. Isn't there a football involved or is that Behind Enemy Lines? That's Behind Enemy Lines. That's behind Enemy Lines. Stealth is the one where one of the planes just turns into a robot.

Oh, that's right. And Jessica Biel, like, yeah, yeah. And Josh Lucas? Sure. And then Jamie Foxx is the third lead and he dies first

and you're like, what happened? And it was right after he won the Oscar and they sold it as a Jamie Foxx movie. That killed Rob Cohen's career. Yeah.

Monsters, Inc. is in their spy game with Pitt and Redford. A movie that I come back to all the time. It's a Tony Scott film, right? I love that movie. It's a good movie. I think that Catherine McCormick should have been a bigger star than she is. Yeah.

What happened to her? I don't know. You want to hear a really- Spy Game was not a huge hit. Charlie Rampling has a great little part in that movie, too. Spy Game was a big disappointment. It made $60 million. That was Redford, Pitt. People thought it was going to be big. Big. It made 60 million. But that was Redford Pit people

thought it was going to be big. It's too smart. I think. Too dark. You want an interesting fact about Behind Enemy

Lines? They hired Gene Hackman for that first. Sure. And he had just done Royal Tenenbaums and they didn't

have a lead and he was like oh you should hire this guy. Right. For the Royal Tenenbaums guy. Owen Wilson got hired the one movie where he was like a straight action star. He's pretty good in, this Royal Tenenbaums guy. Owen Wilson got hired.

The one movie where he was a straight action star. He's pretty good in it. Yeah, he's pretty good in it. It's not a bad movie. I saw it in theaters. It ends to Ryan Adams' The Rescue Blues. It's such a funny little thing. All right.

It's behind enemy lines. They've made like five direct-to-video sequels. Yeah, it's like Jarhead. There's all these fake sequels to it that just used it for some reason. And Gene Hackman's in all of them. Yeah, it's like Jarhead. There's all these fake sequels to it that just use it for some reason. And Gene Hackman's in all of them. Yeah, of course. With Eugene Levy, as Jim's dad from

American Pie. And Anna Faris. She won a Cesar for that. Has Tenenbaums come out yet? Tenenbaums comes out that very week on five theaters, and it grosses $276,000, which is pretty good. $55,000 screen average. Pretty great. Black Knight, with Martin Lawrence is in there.

You've got Shallow Hal. Ooh. And you've got Amelie in the top 10. Good job, Amelie. Wow. Anyway, it's a fun time. That's an interesting time. Now, just to give you a little, here's Penelope Cruz's career post-Vinil of the Sky.

Okay. Waking Up in Reno. I don't even know what that is. Nope, never heard of it. Mastodon Anonymous, the Dylan movie. Right? Oh, yeah. Okay. Waking Up in Reno. I don't even know what that is. Nope, never heard of it. Mastodon Anonymous, the Dylan movie. Right? Oh yeah, wow. The movie that Dylan wrote. Gothica.

Yeah. With Halle Berry? Yeah, and Robert Downey Jr. She's in that? She's like the MacGuffin. She's the crazy lady at the beginning of the movie. She's like, I'm crazy. I think the plot is that Halle Berry is a doctor, and Penelope Cruz is a patient and then she wakes up

and she's in Penelope Cruz's place. Yes, that's what it's about. Penelope Cruz is like only in the first act of that movie. Oh, I see, okay. It's like the Sophia Julia switch in Vanilla Sky that happens between Halle Berry

and Penelope Cruz where everyone's like, no, you're that crazy lady who's always been here. Oh, I see, okay. And she's like, I'm not Penelope Cruz. Right, right.

A lot of people saying they're not. Sahara. I'm just, it's quite a run of crap. Yeah, this is a real. Sahara's with McConaughey. Clive Cussler, right? Yes. He sued them, right?

Yeah, he's the only one. Because they ruined his property. Yeah. That is a terrible movie. That's the one that's directed by. Breck Eisner. Breck Eisner, right. Yeah, sure.

Michael Eisner's son. Oh, is that right? Yes. The linchpin of his lawsuit was that he considered the character to be semi-autobiographical, and he thought it was insulting for them to cast McConaughey. Oh, wow. That's pretty rude. Yep.

And then... McConaughey was in a real, real desert at that point. Yeah. That was after Failure to Launch or before? I think that was before. Before, yeah. I think that was before. And then you have Failure to Launch and Ghosts of Girlfriends Past.

Where Jennifer Garner tries to strangle him with a sweater. I mean, with a scarf on the poster. She won a César for that. You know that movie was originally supposed to star. Scarf won a César for Best Scarf. Do you know that movie was originally supposed to star? Griffin Newman. Ben Affleck.

Imagine if that poster now existed with Jennifer Garner strangling Ben Affleck with a scarf. Lacey Chabert. So it's like, oh, one, and really 99 or so, to 2006 Volver. It's just, I mean, she just makes crap. Oh, garbage. And like, it is weird that she

managed to scramble a good career out of that. But did she? Well, no, not really. She got three nominations and one win. Two. Three, yes. She got nominated for nine as well. Which is crazy. She got nominated for nine.

It really did? She got nominated for Volver. She won for Vicky Christina. She got nominated for nine. That's crazy. So it's after Volver. Again, she makes Elegy and The Good Night. So, you know, nothing.

Yeah. And then Vicky Christina in 08, great. She makes Broken Embraces in 2009 and 9 so okay you know she gets an Oscar nom and she works with Amadavar

and then like Sex and the City 2 okay she's in that? for a second very briefly Pirates of the Caribbean 4

or whatever remember which is like weird bought a nice boat with that but yeah she's into Rome with Love which I've never seen I like it a lot

she's also very good in that have you seen that one? Yeah, I don't remember a single thing about it. I know I've seen it. I like that movie. I guess she's Briefly and I'm So Excited, which is like the almoot of our movie No One Dares to Speak Of. She's got a cameo only in the very beginning.

It's her and Banderas. The two movie stars you want to see in the movie are gone after two minutes. Then she's in The Counselor. Right. A movie that is supremely underrated, I think. That's a real point. I hated it the first time, and then I loved it the second time. I think she's pretty good in that, too. And not a very well- real point. I hated it the first time, and then I loved it the second time. I think she's pretty good in that, too.

And not a very well-written role. I'm a huge Ridley Scott fan. Cameron Diaz. Yes. Cameron Diaz is great in that movie. In an entirely redubbed ADR performance. Yeah, it's an awkward performance. And then this year,

I think you're the one who tweeted it, right? Zoolander 2 and the Brothers Grimsby. I mean, that woof. And if you count, yeah, that's a terrible terrible one two punch but you could also count Mama which came out last year in Spain but this year here but everything I've heard about it

it's like this very very shameless sort of Oscar-y bait kind of cancer weepy which is not great for her but like I think it had a pretty high profile in Spain so sure just the fact that she did two like spy comedies where she played the sexy catsuit

lady, thankless role, to waning comedic leading man that came out within a month of each other. Her role in Zoolander 2 is actively depressing. They ride her like a boat. Yeah. That movie is

really something she plays like the exact same role in Grimsby doesn't she? she's a much smaller part in that but it is the same function I never walk out of movies because it's my job to see movies I walked out of that movie I mean I had to go to another screening

but I also was like fuck this movie I don't think I'll ever see that one it's fucking horrible and it's actively homophobic. Yes. He's got a problem. Yeah, he hates gay people. Yeah.

I think he, here's my working theory. He hates everyone who isn't him. Right. He thinks that he's phenomenal and everyone else is shitty. Yeah. He's, yeah, he's got some problems. When people were like praising him and they were like, oh, look, Borat, he's sticking it to the bigots.

It's like he's also sticking it to everyone else. Yeah. Like, there's that scene where they go to the dinner party and he calls a woman unattractive and says he would never fuck her because she deigned to sit at a table with him.

Yeah. She deserved nothing. She said nothing racist and he fucking steamrolls her. But nobody likes Borat, right? Not anymore. No, of course not. But, you know,

it is weird how it's like you never hear anyone except for people who go, my wife, but that is long since left Borat. No, I think. But you know, it is weird how it's like, you never hear anyone except for people who go, my wife, but that is long since left borough. No, I think that's coming back too. My wife. I think my wife's coming back.

I think it's coming back. See, my favorite of his movies is Bruno because whether intentionally or not, I think that is the one where he gets comedic value out of exposing other people's prejudices the most.

I hate that movie. Yeah. Even if he's playing a shitty stereotype, the things I find interesting in that movie are people reacting to him. And I think everyone he attacks in that movie deserves it, whereas in Borat, I think they don't.

I think it's half and half in that movie. I didn't feel that way about Bruno. I thought he attacked a lot of people who didn't deserve it. I've seen it once. I've never seen it because I can't watch that cringey shit. I hate it. It's awful. I think it's a...

Whatever. That was when I gave up on old SBC. He's great in Alice Through the Looking Glass. Good actor. So you've said on this very podcast. Good actor. But just not, don't let him be a creative voice. Yeah.

No, or else you get the dictator. Anyway, poor Penelope Cruz was trying to raise her profile here in 2016 in two awful movies. It sucks. Yeah. And Tom Cruise is doing better. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's been up and down all these years.

We talked about it, basically. Cameron Crowe is, well, I don't know what you guys have said about roadies on this podcast, but. I have not seen roadies yet. I haven't yet. I'm saving it. We're going to do a roadies episode. I will bite my tongue then.

No, no, no. Please. Actually, I actually want to hear what you have to say. It's a real, it's really sad. No, no, no. I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Do you want it to be good?

I really, really want it to be good. I want it to be okay. Sure. Because I feel like there is that contingent of Crow fans. There's the contingent of Crow fans who almost ignore when things are bad. I almost fall into that. But then there's the larger contingent of Crow fans who think, can it be this one?

Fingers crossed. Maybe he'll get it back. No, that's who I am. I'm every time going, the last one was a problem, but I believe he can get it back. Yeah. Well, I mean, if they can fix this, if tech support can fix this fucking nightmare. Crow should be screaming for tech support.

And go back to the screening that Tom Cruise and Paul Wagner hosted for him to make this movie, Vanilla Sky. And then he doesn't make it in the new dream. How many episodes of Brodies have you seen now? Three. Okay. Yeah. There's no way it's good. I almost said it hasies have you seen now? Three. Okay. Yeah. There's no way it's good. I almost said it has its moments.

It literally has almost zero moments. Okay. I can't talk about this anymore. How do you feel about Aloha? I'm going to cry too much. My week's been too bad. Aloha kind of like does it for me at parts. Yeah.

Aloha. But Roadies is just trying for that. And I like a lot of people in it. I can't wait to re-watch Aloha. I can't either. Oh, and there's people you like in it. In Roadies. Yeah.

I like Gino. Who doesn't love him? I love Machine Gun Kelly. I think he's really cute. So I'll't either. Oh, and there's people you like in it, in Rhodey. Yeah, I like Gino. Who doesn't love him? I love Machine Gun Kelly. I think he's really cute, so I'll watch him. He's great in Beyond the Lights. That's exactly right. So fucking great. And there are, I don't know, some, oh, I don't like her,

but I'm rooting for Keisha Castle-Hughes. I'm rooting for her, too. As an actor. She's had a tough time. She's had a strange arc, that one. Well, she got cast on the biggest show on television, and then they were like, you're going to play an idiot,

and your co-stars are going to be idiots, and we're going to kill your storyline, unceremoniously. What show was that? Game of Thrones. She's on Game of Thrones? Yeah, that scene in Game of Thrones,

though, in the finale that just aired, where, you know, Diana Riggs' character, was like, oh, tell me about yourselves,

to the Sand Snakes, and they're like, and she's like, actually, I don't care, because you are useless people. Like, I don't care about you, and they're just like, oh, tell me about yourselves to the Sand Snakes. And she's like, actually, I don't care because you are useless people. I don't care about you. And they're just like, ugh.

She was the queen of the universe one time. Queen of Naboo. Oh, she was the queen of Naboo. That's right. And she was Mother Mary Magdalene. I mean, not Magdalene. She was Mary. Yeah, and she was also a real-life unwed teen mother.

True. That's true. Vanilla Sky. And the youngest. Oh, That's true. Yeah. Vanilla Sky. Oh, no, the second. Vanilla Sky C plus? Sure. No, I would say C for the bulk of the film. Right.

B for the last 15 minutes. Pretty fair. And I have to say I want to apologize to Brian Koziska, Gail Ryan, Mary Joyce Ortizos, and whoever else was with me in 2001 on the BC shuttle bus coming home from the Cleveland Circle National Amusements Theater. They were right. I was wrong.

It's a bad movie. David, your ranking? They listen every week. Yeah, I mean, I haven't spoken to really any of them in 15 years. I'm pretty sure they're listening. It's good that you know all their names. Well, I know three of their names. That's pretty good.

I don't think I could name three of the people I hung out with in the first week of college at all. Your rating, David? Yeah, C+. Three out of five. You ready for my rating? He's putting on sunglasses. A-. That was something.

A-. Griffin has taken to prop comedy. Griffin is auditioning for Master Anonymous 2 right now in front of us. Wearing sunglasses indoors. I'd say B plus, A minus. I waffle. But yeah, you like this movie. I like this movie.

I love your read on this movie, I gotta say. I like the read on the movie too. I would like to read it in written form if you ever wanted to write it. Yeah, you should. Well, you guys want to make some competing offers? I could pay you a bunch of fish heads. You guys are bitter rivals, right? Who's gonna get

old Griffo on the byline? Yeah, it's like Mrs. Parker in the Vicious Circle over there. Yeah, come on. Make some bids for old Griffo. Oh my god. Seriously though, I just need a relationship right now, so if either of you want to. I know a good island woman you might like. Oh, great. Do you have a mandolin?

Damn it, he beat me to it. All right, Griffin, well, it's about 6.15, so you should get on the road. Yeah, I got it. I have to go see... Oh, Ben? Guys, can I tell you my takeaway? Oh, yeah.

Please. You've been pretty silent this episode, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. This movie put me in a weird mood. This didn't have any past technology. It had future technology. Well, no, there was a really cool moment with outdated ringtones. Yeah.

What's your read, Ben? So at least something I got out of seeing this again was striving to have a window of time in your life that you'd want to relive like Tom Cruise did in this movie. Yes, yep. So, yeah, this is a terrible story, but I kind of feel like that's something to think about. Yep.

I think about it, too. And I'll think about it for months now that that window has closed in my life. Thank you for listening. I'm doing great. You know what I'm really not looking forward to? What? Because we're recording these episodes in advance. Having to re-listen to me make

references to how sad I am right now five weeks from now when this episode's released. But you might be feeling better five weeks from now. That's my hope. I'm saying so then five weeks from now I'll listen to it and I'll be like, huh, this guy. When my dad was my age we were pointing missiles

at each other and we were about to blow each other up. You're saying the world, Russia and America? Yeah. You're saying it could be worse? It could be worse. I agree. I was more like someone yesterday was saying to me, like, oh my God, like the world's fucking ending,

which is like, I think, a reasonable feeling to have right now. Yeah. Like things feel a little apocalyptic. But I was also like, you know, when my dad was like literally my age, like he was like a, you know, a guy at a newspaper writing up a story that's like, Russia could bomb us any

day now, Cuban Missile Crisis ongoing. You know, like, you know. Yeah, Griff, you could be a rich guy that gets into a car accident. Yeah, that's my hope. That's what I'm dreaming for. I mean, look, I know, you know, there isn't a third nuclear war and that's great and we should be thankful for what we have, but it's also, you know,

we're never going to get season two of vinyl. I'm sorry about that. I don't know what happens to the have, but it's also, you know, we're never going to get season two of vinyl. I'm sorry about that, buddy. I don't know what happens to the nasty, but. You were going to be the manager. Maybe. It had been a, I don't know.

Look, thank you all for listening. Thank you for listening. Richard, do you want to give Griffin his condolences? Yeah, I mean, you know.

Look me in my sunglassed eyes. I'm wearing my sous-glasses right now. Look me in my sunglassed eyes. Richard, I put sunglasses on over my headphones I mean, you know. Look me in my sunglassed eyes. I'm wearing my sous-glas right now. Look me in my sunglassed eyes. Richard? I put sunglasses on over my headphones so they're not covering my ears, so they're just resting vaguely on my face.

Indoors. Well, maybe you and I can be together in another life when we're both cats. Pack my things and I'm gonna take you home. Look at my coat. A beautiful coat. Thank you, Richard. Richard, you're A beautiful coat. Thank you, Richard. Richard, you're the best guest. Thank you guys for having me.

What do you want from James Cameron? We just gotta have you every time. I would like from James Cameron... Probably Aliens. All right. We'll talk. It's on the record. We'll talk.

Or True Lies. I don't know. We'll talk. True Lie. We'll talk. Thank you for listening. We'll read reviews at some later episode. We keep on saying we're going to do that.

Mark Hamill just tweeted the word no. No one knows why. Yeah, he feels it. It's a bad time right now. Negativity, bro. I hear you, Mark. Ditto. Ditto, Mark.

Ditto. Ditto. And by the way, of course, this episode has been written and narrated by Griffin Newman and David Sims. That's me. Why are we? I love the podcast. I do too. I just think that's the funniest thing.

You're very good at that very specific. I love that podcast. It's incredible. Join us, won't you? Yeah. Hard tea, baby. Hard tea. Tune in next week.

We'll be covering the movie Elizabethtown. Very well. His voice is very crisp. I don't know. Probably just solo. You want to come back? No, no.

Feel free. Feel free to swing on by. I call it Lizzytown. Yeah. Well, sure. Lizzytoes? I mean, maybe you can get Paula Deen's in that movie.

Yeah, Paula Deen is in that movie, right? Yeah. Oh, she plays Orlando Bloom, right? She actually plays the sneaker that he... So next week we'll be discussing... We never talked about the snowboard. Look, we gotta do a second Vanilla Sky episode. We gotta do the Vanilla Sky reawakens.

All right, okay. I know you gotta go, Griff. Okay, I gotta go. I gotta go try to have a career. Next week we'll be discussing the sequel to Denim Invasion, Elizabethtown. Please tune in. Oh yeah, what about the Denim Invasion?

Next week might be the Denim Invasion episode. Oh, you're right. Yeah, the Denim Invasion episode. Well, we recorded a whole episode about Cameron Crowe's Gap ad. We did a live episode at the UCB Del Close Marathon. It's a 45-minute episode about a 30-second Gap commercial. Yeah, Ben, what did you think of that episode?

I was okay. I mean, it's not really about the Gap commercial. It's a lot about the Gap commercial. There's 25 minutes of George Lucas in it. It's all right. Well, spoiler alert, we do have special guests, John Everett Trowbridge and George Lucas, and a lot of live on Mike

Berger reports. Yeah, that's true. Tune in for that, and then we'll take a trip to Lizzytown after that. And yeah, you know. And yeah, as always, Griffin. And as always, you swallowed my cum. That means something. Boo.

Yay. Oh, that means something. Boo! Yay! This has been a UCB Comedy Production. Check out our other shows on the UCB Comedy Podcast Network.