Blank Check with Griffin & David - Village of the Damned with Amy Nicholson

Episode Date: November 7, 2021

It’s not “Children of the Damned” nor “Children of the Corn” nor “Corn of the Damned” - it’s John Carpenter’s “Village of the Damned,” goddamnit! Creepy blonde kids with laser eyes! Our guest Amy Nicholson’s (“Unspooled”) boyfriend thinks she looks like one of them. Griffin thinks David’s baby has “Village of the Damned” eyes, too. But is this movie actually scary enough? “Needs more menace!” per Ben. Topics covered include the Razzies, formative cinematic crushes, Christopher Reeve’s star persona, and a Chuck Norris movie that has him teaming up with a dog to take down an alliance of White Supremacist groups.  Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch at shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

Village of the Damned. Village of the Damned. What if there was a Village of the Damned? What if? Are you struggling with the quotes here, Griff? Uh, yeah. It's got a good tagline. It does, but I mean, is it a...

It's short. Yeah. Um. You got this. You got this you got this I don't know if you got this you might not I don't know give me one second

beware the stare that will paralyze the will of the world that was the tagline for the original yeah I'm just gonna fucking say the thing just do it beware the podcast I don't know there's no hotlines in this one

the quotes are so goddamn bad It's just a lot of people having sort of reasonable conversations. Maybe something creepy the kids say. The janitor, what does he say? That's a great little moment. I'll tell you what he says. Yeah, it doesn't fit into the fucking format. My very precise format.

What's his line here? Well, are you gonna do something something you're just gonna cry like all the other little pissants do something god damn it i know you're getting some energy i know you're i'm too ever since you got here i've been watching watching people leave this town watching things die maybe i do that okay ready i mean all this stays in but I'm just gonna do this okay sure I know your game. I know what you're up to. Ever since you got here, I've been podcasting. Podcasting people leave this town.

Podcasting things die. You ain't right. None of you. One of these days, someone's going to podcast something about it. Okay, so yeah, that was good. You kind of peppered in some words there. I peppered in some words. I don't know.

I love that guy's energy. That guy, you know, because this whole movie, I was just like, why isn't everyone just screaming all the time? Everyone's just kind of like, well, what are you going to do? You know how on Last of the Mohicans, they hired Wes Studi to be an actor? And New World, I know, did this too. You hire Wes Studi to be an actor, but you also hire him to be a consultant and a coach.

And you're like, he's going to work with everyone and make sure they get the details right. Sure. They should have had the janitor work that way as an energy consultant. Right. Come on. Look at this guy.

Kirstie, go bigger. I don't think Kirstie can go bigger. Put some fucking life into this, Kirstie. You think Kirstie can go bigger? Kirstie chain smokes throughout the entire movie. You know what? If she went bigger, she'd be holding like a gigantic cigar the size of a baby's forearm. You're right.

You're right. You're right. Kiersey's maybe the only other actor in this movie who's giving it the right amount of energy. She just has bad judgment. But that would be fun if she had a cigar the size of a baby's arm. She should. And if she lit it and it exploded in her face at one point. Do you guys know this? The fucking Jungle Cruise thing with Giamatti david hates when i bring up

the movie jungle cruise but i keep bringing up this movie that no one remembers it doesn't exist all right what about giamatti 120 million dollars domestic something like that one of our only hits one of our only hits um so they like giamatti is the fucking best part of that movie i don't know if you saw that movie of course. Of course I saw that movie. You mean the movie where two-thirds of the way through, The Rock looks at the camera and says, by the way, I'm immortal? Absolutely.

Spoilers. Correct. Correct. Correct. Spoilers. Giamatti's the best part of that movie, and you don't understand why he isn't the main antagonist and why he doesn't have more to do

when considering what he's fucking giving them and how much fun that character is. And it turns out The rock went to giamatti because i guess they've done two movies together they did they did san andreas he's in san andreas right yeah san andreas is a worse movie yes wow i think that's true yes it's boring it's very boring but um they were like we have this role we need like someone to be like the rock impersonates him and he owns the boat. And it's just like, we don't have anything here. Can you come in? You have carte blanche. You could do anything you want.

We like haven't really written a character. You could do anything you want. So Giamatti's like, Hmm, let me think it over. And his negotiation was, he went back to Disney and he was like, I want a monkey that sits on my shoulder and lights my cigars. What you're saying is our movie of the day, if it had a monkey that was lighting Kirstie Alley's baby forearm shaped cigars. Right. Five stars is what Griffin is saying.

Yeah, because that was that was Paul Giamatti's initial instinct for the character. And that shows you what a canny actor he is. He understood exactly what that movie needed. Of course, Disney said, no cigars allowed. Monkeys are difficult to work with. We'll give you a fucking cockatoo. And that was the settlement. We'll give you a fucking cockatoo?

I mean, I want to get married and divorced just so my husband can say, we'll give you a fucking cockatoo. I'll give you a fucking cockatoo. Did you know that Jesse Plemons' character is actually based on a real person, on the kind of actual son? Yep. How mean is that?

Is that true? Yeah. He has a whole Wikipedia page, the real guy that Jesse Plemons is playing. And they were just like, fuck him. He'll just be in our movie. They're just like, fuck it. Yeah, you were a real guy.

You lived and died. Your ancestors are probably still here. Whatever. You're you're a mean old Nazi. We're going to make like pre-Nazi. He's just a mean old member of the German Empire. What a weird movie, but also not weird enough. It's in such a weird balance of of kind of the exact wrong amount

of weirdness should be silly is sometimes silly but not serious not silly enough this is the problem with all disney movies now though they all have to be important for some reason you know well they've all got to teach you about like life lessons and feminism right exactly it all has to be about stem or whatever she wears pants back in the day you know a master of horror could just be like look i'll i'll do your remake but can we just shoot it in like my house yeah uh you know and it's okay no one has to like really bring any energy it's fine we'll get it done quickly wait i i see what you're doing sims what you're doing is you're trying to put like a magic Jungle Cruise

Lasso around Griffin and make him talk about today's film Correct Yeah I am but I mean I more just want us to stop Talking about Jungle Cruise I think that movie has like infected Griffin's brain There's something wrong David is acting like Proxima the giant jungle cat Creating a distraction

Refocusing our attention to the movie at hand There's no way I remember that Proxima the giant jungle cat Of course creating a distraction, refocusing our attention to the movie at hand. There's no way I remember that. Proxima, the giant jungle cat, of course. Yeah, okay. Because The Rock's character, Frank. Frank, what a guy.

You say that with a lot of conviction. Right. He keeps on getting cats. He has giant jungle cats and he is immortal and he lives for thousands of years and he keeps on getting new cats when the last cat dies and he names them all Proxima. That's real. That is real.

I get it. It's like Proxima then the next one. Okay. Alright. What do you think he does with all the bodies? Like they're pretty big. I mean that's like a big pet cemetery. Nom nom nom nom nom. What do you think is part of like the rock's high protein diet? Yes.

That's his cheat day. His cheat day is he eats a Proxima. He eats a Jaguar. Yeah. Normal days he eats like what? 30 cod fillets. Yeah. He fucking loves pancakes and tequila.

Right. Isn't that he always post the picture of him with like a stack of 80, but like a fucking Forrest McNeil stack of pancakes. The pancakes are made out of cod. They're just refashioned. They're pounded flat, dyed brown. His life seems so joyless. That's what we, that's why

you're fascinated with him. Because he seems so tired and unhappy as he's like, mmm, pancakes! Yeah. Whatever. He's our next president. He's probably the only hope we have of stopping, whatever, Donald Trump or something. Gonna have to talk He's our next president. He's probably the only hope we have of stopping whatever Donald Trump or something. Gonna have to talk myself into The Rock someday.

In the future, you're not gonna be able to get elected president unless you've done at least three seasons on NBC. Right. And Trump broke that and The Rock was like, I gotta get on fucking NBC. I gotta do a show that's explicitly about me running for president.

Well, that's great news for Kirstie Alley. Kirstie Alley! Who we're going to talk about today. Today. Today. Thank you, Amy. Thank you.

I'm just here being your woman in pants getting shit done. Swinging it back around. Because Veronica's closet, that was on NBC too. That's out of Village of the Damned

She jumps from the village To the closet Interesting Is this sort of the end of her Movie career Well I mean She's got Drop Dead Gorgeous

Oh sure But it's definitely after the height And that's sort of an ensemble She came out Drop Dead Gorgeous. Oh, sure. But it's definitely after the height. Yeah. And that's sort of an ensemble. She came out. She did Look Who's Talking. That was basically, I think, it really that kind of like rubber stamped her whole movie career.

Well, she did the trilogy. She got a trilogy. She pulled down a quick trilogy. She did the trilogy. And then, God, I forgot she did an Olsen twins movie. That's what I was saying. It takes two. What year is it takes two?

Is that before or after this? That is 1995. It's the same year as this okay uh i i just remember in for richer or poorer there's a scene in the middle of the movie where kirstie ellis is like this is just witness we're just doing witness and tim allen's like yeah i know like they were like you know what we'll just acknowledge it we'll just have someone say that out loud it's like yeah like, yeah, that was the pitch. You don't remember? You were there at the meeting.

I mean, listen, I have a feeling that today we're going to do some ragging on Kirstie Alley, which I do believe she deserves. But I think we should say that the movie we're about to talk about, in which she is more or less atrocious, does take place between her second and third Emmy. She is an Emmy award winning actor. She has more Emmys than any of us do, even if we all won an Emmy each. That's correct. That's correct, unfortunately. She has two Emmys? Two Emmys.

Wow, good for her. Both for Cheers, I'm assuming. No. No. One's for something called David's Mother. What the hell is this? Is that a TV movie? Oh.

It's a single mother raising an autistic boy drama. Sounds profound. Sam Waterston, Stockard Channing. It was a TV movie, right? This is not a TV movie. This is Best Actress in a Limited Series or Special. And then she got a nomination for The Last Dawn.

That's one of those sort of... That was the... What's it called? Danny Aiello? Lobster drama? No, no just another like mobster thing and then she got an emmy nomination for veronica's closet that was it wow yeah that was her last emmy what is that that's like how many how many nominations is that total that's she got well you got those three plus five for cheer so eight total she got five consecutive nominations for that's amazing every every year pretty much wow how many emmy nominations do you have david oh boy uh let me just plug my name into imdb here i am i am the

top result not seeing any emmy noms for old Davey yet Haven't gotten any noms No, that's so Zero She's 8-0 on me That's embarrassing, Davey Because meanwhile, I'll type my name into IMDB And it auto-completed negative nominations She also, I'm not seeing any Golden Raspberry nomination

So she's avoided the Raz Right, she never got a stinker i think this movie got razzed did it not wait wait it's saying here i have an emmy i had no idea oh congrats what for producer ben what was your emmy for oh um i'm seeing here it was for the new season of Gossip Girl. Of course. You're so good on that. Apparently. What was I going to say? This movie, Griff, was nominated for a Razzie for Worst Remake or Sequel.

Okay. It lost to The Scarlet Letter, which I think that's a little stupid because I'm sure that had been made before. But that wasn't really a remake. No, but that movie was like so hateful. That's the thing. They were just so excited to jab it. Well, that's the thing about the Razzies.

The Razzies are a group of real jerks. The Razzies are like the mean kids from theater camp who like invented a way to have power it's very true taste i'll go i'll i will rag on the razzies forever i mean wait i feel like i've even ragged on the razzies around you let's do it again probably yeah let's fucking razz the razzies let's do it i went to the razzies did you know that you can go to the razzies i knew they had a dinner. They had a whole Razzie ceremony. Yeah, I went to a Razzie ceremony. I went like right after. Yeah, I went right after I went to the Indie Spirits. So it was like my day of like highbrow, lowbrow. Right, because they usually do it the day before the Oscars, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So the Razzies, it's really like nine nerds who get up and do skits in between each each award and it's just the same nine nerds it's like a really bad version of like sctv or something where they're like and now we do a lampoon but their lampoons are all much worse than everything they're already making fun of and you get the sense they didn't even watch any of them they're very compelling performers probably right yeah it's just weird it really feels like people who got pitchforks for the first time and they're so excited. Yeah.

What year do you remember? Yeah, which Razzies you attended? What year? I think I was in the Razzies at, it was 2016, I believe. So it looks like your big movie that you see. This is the problem with the current Razzies. It was a Twilight year? No, it's one of those like Dinesh D'S see. This is the problem with the current. It was a twilight year?

No, it's one of those like Dinesh D'Souza years. Oh, it was 2016? No, no. It would have been America. Imagine the world without her. It's Hillary's America Secret. Okay, it was a different one. Oh, wait, no, wait. Maybe I was there in 2017.

That would be the emoji movie is worst picture. Tom Cruise, one worst actor for The Mummy. I mean, that's kind of deserved. I love him, but he was pretty bad in that. These pics sound actually decent so far. But also, no, there was a lot of worse actors than that. That's just mean, too. Well, you know, but this is my problem.

I think the Razzies now just do not know how to respond to culture at all. the razzies now just do not know how to respond to culture at all but uh whereas back in the day they were weirdly kind of arbiters of quote-unquote stinkers even if they were often wrong right sure but they would kind of gravitate towards whatever the sort of classic stinkers of the 90s were like i'm looking at the village of the damned year and you've got you know showgirls was the big winner that year scarlet but then you've got scarlet letter water world you know uh dr jekyll and mrs hyde remember that was that was a sort of famously bad movie yeah this is the thing though it feels like so often it's like vanity projects or female sexuality yes exactly those are their two least favorite things right

they they they hate fucking big movie star makes big fucking Vandy Project starring themselves. And they hate erotic thrillers and shit. Yeah, it's anything that makes them feel uncomfortable in their pants in a way they can't explain. Right. So as Griff, you were noting, right, they eventually turned on the Twilight movies. This year, they're turning on the Fifty 50 shades movies are all over this right they also gave like tyler perry worst actress for a medea movie which feels like moronic on there like who cares like and what here's the other thing he's good in those movies like yeah he's doing what

he's doing as medea is good right like i He's committed. He is committed. He has played that character longer than almost anybody has played any character. Longer than Daniel Craig was Bond. Absolutely. Absolutely. A, a longer number of years.

B, eight times the films. That character fits him like a fucking glove. He's done it on theater. He's done it on stage. He's done it without a net, the safety net of the screen. It's his hamlet. He knows Medea. He's done it on stage. He's done it without a net, the safety net of the screen. It's his Hamlet.

He knows Medea. He knows Medea. That's the other thing is like, he's good in other people's movies, right? He's good as Medea. He's occasionally good in other people's movies. Yes, he can be good. He certainly has it in him. I think he's consistently

good as Medea. I think Medea. Okay, hello. You say Medea, good as Medea. I think. Medea. Medea. Okay. Hello. You say Medea, I say Medea. Yeah. Which one is the classy way?

Which one is the Greek one? Is it Medea or Medea? Well, it's supposed to be like mother dear, right? It's like Medea. I don't know. Oh, it's like the m'lady? It's like m'lady? Medea.

Yeah. Medea. Medea. Medea. Look, you can call her whatever you want as long as you wish her a good afternoon. The point is that I think he's bad in his own movies when he plays like Joe Normal Guy. Oh, he can't be Joe Normal Guy. Right.

I think he is. In like Alex Cross or whatever. No, I'm saying in his own movies. Or in his own movies. He'll play like straight man normal dude because he'll do like three roles in movies sometimes or there will be the ones ones where it's just like, what's it called? Good deeds or whatever the fuck it's called. Yeah, or what's

the one where he wore a trench coat and he was a badass? That's Alex Cross, I think. You don't want to cross Alex Cross. But to fucking ding him for playing Medea. Dumb. Dumb. Well, and also, Griffin, listen to these other worst actress nominees from that, from

Amy's, the year Amy attended, most likely. Katherine Heigl in Unforgettable, which, that's like one of those crazy ex-girlfriend type movies, right? Yeah, who cares? Once again, like, they hate women's films. Dakota, this is what I'm saying, Dakota Johnson in Fifty Shades Darker,

Emma Watson in The Circle. That's absolutely wrong. That's right wrong that's right that's crazy emma watson in the circle that's that i mean that movie is pretty indefensible and then jennifer lawrence in mother and that's the other thing i hate about the razzies that kind of like ha we got you you were in a flop like you know that sort of weird kind of jerky like oh mother didn't do so well did it like we'll hit you on the way down yeah yeah where it's just i mean who cares like you know i don't know anyway there's probably no good way to do it yeah there's something really punching down about it even though they're a bunch of nerds punching movie

stars they do feel like they they kick you on the way down it's i don't i don't feel like when a bad movie comes out the razzies are like hey let's all go see it and really qualitatively analyze it. You know, I don't think they get excited when they hear that there's like a notably bad movie coming out. They're not searching for the best of the bad movies. I don't even think they watch what they nominate, to be honest. I, by and large, think they do not. Right. Yeah. They pick their targets and they'll pick like fucking Sandler or Tyler Perry or Stallone for so long, whoever it is.

And it's just like automatic nomination every year. They'll pick anybody who would have given them a wedgie at prom. Michael Bay. Yes. Correct. I will say this, Griffin. I,

I do think I might've given village of the damned a few more Razzie. I would too. I'm sorry. I would too. I feel bad. Back into focus because I will say that this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. Jeez, wow, we haven't even introduced them.

Yes, I'm David. It's a carpenter style. The opening credits go on for like 17 minutes and then you go like, oh, we're still, we hadn't gotten to directed by yet. Right. That's a carpenter thing. We haven't replicated that in the format of our episodes yet. replicated that in the format of her episodes yet. Listen, this is a podcast about filmographies.

Directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce. Baby! And this is a miniseries on the films of John Carpenter. It's called They Podcast. And we're just

bouncing. We're bouncing to the finish line now unfortunately uh you know as good a run as we've ever covered on this show the only argument i feel like people have put forward of a more consistent decade plus uninterrupted run of movies that we've covered as miyazaki sure sure but i think there's something uh no no there's something magical about what he's doing because he's not like miyazaki where like he takes years on every project and it's like you know no he's making a movie a year pretty much for 20 years through the 80s and he's working in different genres he's working very limited budget levels he doesn't have necessarily the same

uh sort of like all powerful control. It's not his own company. He's going between different studios and dealing with all this, you know, different changing trends in the industry. It's kind of just like miraculous what he was able to pull off. And then, you know, there's like a Dorian Gray painting in his attic that gets hackier and hackier every time he makes another hit. And then somehow things started catching up with him. I don't know. I mean, this movie's

very bizarre. It's called Children... It's called Village of the Damned. It's not called Children of the Damned. I know. I get so confused in the Village of the Damned, Children of the Damned, Children of the Corn thing. I get... Right. Children of the Damned, Children of the Damned, Children of the Corn thing. I get. Right.

Children of the Damned is the sequel to the original Village of the Damned. I've never seen it. They are like, they are like good. I've seen the original. Right. Do you know this? I have not seen the sequel. I watched the original last night. In the sequel, they're like a force for good.

They're like John Travolta and Phenomenon or something. They're sort of like the X-Men movies. It's like, here's all these kids with like wild powers that we've gathered that come from all over the world and we're like putting them together to see like can you use your powers for good very bizarre yeah that's children of the dam but what what is um corn of the damned well no children of the corn of the dam that i'd like to see i'd like to see corn of the dance. Just move out some bad corn. This corn is no good.

It's cursed. It's blue. Here's the thing. Okay, Amy. Well, wait. Introduce our guest. Jesus. Our guest.

Introduce me, man. Our guest. From unspooled. And of course, from a memento episode five years ago, Amy Nicholson, long overdue back on the show. Oh, it's good to be back. That was a wonderful day when we did memento. It was thunderstorming outside and then I left you guys and I immediately went to Coney Island and I ate a big hot dog and went on some rides. I remember you were going right to Coney.

That's right. Yeah, I associate you guys with beautiful memories that's oh that's nice sweet well you and i we've had like great meals at film festivals that's i associate you with great meals at film festivals as well amy but anyway i miss our meals but yes i do yes i mean i miss all that but um amy i now i'm gonna cop to the fact that I asked you to be on the show but by the time I asked you The Carpenter list was a little Picked over I was presenting you

With sort of the 90's Dregs Of Carpenter not that they're all bad movies Obviously but you know I was not presenting you with The best of the best Because a few people have claimed movies Was that on purpose are you no it was i'm not mad at you it's furious at all it's just booking a show could be very stressful because

yes people will often just kind of gravitate you always love the early uh like you ask someone and they're like oh i want like you know x movie nobody ever asks for uh but you know often people will ask for for kind of the big ones it's it's a it's a weird puzzle and we don't need to go over this a lot but this is the thing i when people ask us about like booking sometimes i just i want to say publicly we find ourselves often in a very different dealing with different calculations than most movie shows because we have a set order in which episodes need to release. You know, like if we pick a director like Carpenter, it's like, well, that's like four and a half months in order, you know? So we're like picking like, who do we want?

Is there a good match for them? Sometimes it's reverse engineered of like, right. This person's overdue. Let's find a place for Amy. Sometimes it's we know this person likes this movie. Can we get them? And then sometimes you look and you're like, oh, these five episodes in a row are like this.

Should we have this instead? Right. Right. I don't know. We fucked up. I should have been on you by now when you offered me the dregs. And I was like, Village of the Damned, a movie that I have never seen. That's what I figured.

Kirstie Alley and Christopher Reeve and Mark Hamill. How would I not say yes to this movie? Sure. I was like, Village of the Damned, a movie that I have never seen. That's what I figured. Kirstie Alley and Christopher Reeve and Mark Hamill. How would I not say yes to this movie? Sure. And then I mentioned it to my boyfriend that we were going to do Village of the Damned. And he was like, that's amazing. You look like one of the children of the Village of the Damned. Wow.

And in fact, why don't we be them for Halloween next year? Yeah. He's like, you should do this. You look, you're blonde and terrifying. Go ahead. I mean, I assume he said this with love. Yes. You can't have like white hair. You do not have white hair.

No. So I'm only half damned. Yeah. I mean, I will say, though, that that hair has definitely died. I mean, if I had a superpower, it's I can tell who who dyes their blonde hair. Yeah. Yeah. When you're a natural superpower, it's I can tell who dyes their blonde hair. Yeah. When you're a natural blonde, you kind of learn these codes. So these guys

are definitely bleached. I think the detail I read is that all the children were bleached and then they were sprayed on top of the bleach. So they're not wigs. It's just their hair. I guess, right. The boys, you can tell. I mean, they look like wigs. Why couldn't they just put wigs on them? That's hair. I guess, right. Correct. I think the Trolltmore actually. I mean, they look like wigs.

Why couldn't they just put wigs on them? That's damaging to do that to your follicles. Damn. The village of the damaging hair follicles. So that's why you picked it, Amy. That's what I was asking. Like, why did you pick it? But that makes sense.

Yeah. I thought I'd watch a film about my ancestors. Sure. Right. Right. You're damned on your father's side right damned on my father's and my mother's yeah less yeah um no it's there's there's just so many bizarre things about this movie i think i don't know if this is a controversial take david this

is the carpenter i've liked the least we've covered so far I don't think that's that controversial I would agree with that because as much as I don't like Memoirs of an Invisible Man it's a little more interesting I find it more interesting I have also I have seen the original multiple times not like two times

and I was sort of taken I was like this is going to be different right I was taken back where I was like no this is just like a very flat, pretty straightforward remake. Like, yeah, there's some changes, but there's one big change. So I had not seen the original until last night. I watched it last night. I watched this movie this morning. The biggest change and what sounds like the biggest impetus for Carpenter making this movie and for also the studios making it like a vision of the

body snatchers gets remade. Philip Kaufman, late seventies. That movie is a hit and is respected. Right. And I think that sort of kickstarts this trend of like, can we take the, you know,

take the old one, do it up again. The blob, right? Griff. Right. Right. They remade the blob around now.

Right. Modern Reagan era post, you know, do it up again the blob right griff right right they remade the blob around now right modern reagan era post you know there was that abel ferrara body snatchers which i've never seen right right and then i guess like the 70s body snatchers is better than the original so there's a way of making it better and i believe that y'all covered a little movie called the thing i was about to say the thing is better than the original, right? Yes, that's the point. I think the breakthrough of Invasion of the Biosnatchers is that it was better.

And they were like, oh, fuck, you can actually do something here and you can adjust it for a new political climate and effects and lack of censorship and whatever.

You could, or you could not. Or you could totally not, just like John Carpenter. I mean, The thing is an example of doing it correctly, but was obviously hated and a giant flop at the time.

They had been developing internally at Universal trying to make a Children of the Damned, Village of the Damned, excuse me, movie for a while. And he had this deal with Universal and he was just sort of like i don't know why not i like that movie a lot feels like a no-brainer it does but here's it's like what he's not realizing

or maybe not caring about is i just feel like it's kind of a movie that needs to be at like british tea drinking level energy right like is what the first movie gets so goddamn right right because like the kids are not going to be running up the walls or like shooting laser beams at you like so it's gonna be a fairly chill film and i feel like he just doesn't quite you know it's impossible for a 90s horror movie to be that sedate and feel like it's intentional like so now so instead it just kind of feels asleep well right off the bat I guess this opinion I'm trying to front load

here is that the biggest difference between this and the original film is that there were such restrictions on what you could talk about in terms of reproduction. You're talking about schmishmorshen. Schmishmorshen. But also you were not allowed to say the word pregnant

in a movie you know like beyond abortion there was just like obviously you can't even like touch that as a subject or allude to it but you can't really even represent pregnancy on screen or delivery or any of those sorts of things i think you're right like how in psycho you couldn't even show a toilet until literally hitchcock was like here's my movie with a toilet. Right. I think internally at Universal, that was their big argument for why to do Village of the Damned again is just like,

well, there's all this shit that's in the book that they couldn't put in the movie that they sort of have to talk around or just like cut forward. You don't really see any of that stuff in between the blackout and the kids. Right.

And that's sort of an interesting period. I think the first 30 minutes of this movie are relatively solid. I think, I don't know if it's just because I'm watching these two films within 12 hours of each other, but when the first 30 minutes are so different than the original because you're seeing all these things that could

not be put on screen, I was kind of into it. And then once the kids are born, I just was like, well now, this is the shittier version of the thing I watched. You know, we have a saying in our family, use sports, don't let sports use you. Hi, it's Jeff Merrick from 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Are you a sports parent, rep sports, travel sports, whatever you call it? If you're like me, you know that one of the great joys of having your kid or kids play sports is travel.

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Well, okay, there's so much to talk about and what you're saying, you know, because like the original book that you're talking about, you know, The Midwich Cuckoos. Great title. Great title. Great title. You know, that book was, I mean, that book was like, I'll just start by saying like worshipped by Margaret Atwood. You know, like Margaret Atwood was like, amazing.

Here's a great book that's like chilling and scary. And it gets into things about like female choices in your life, choices that don't really even feel like choices because you're kind of pressured by society to like have these kids, you know, veiled talk about like abortion, like a book that was about like gender dynamics, kind of different responses to like women being forced to bear these children and then trying to love them. have like handmaidens tale be like this is a great scary book imagine if that story could be remade today by somebody like like a jennifer kent you know of the bob the duke or something like there is a great story fuck that's a good pitch oh it's better oh yeah it's a good pitch but that's what i'm saying yeah but Carpenter's not on that vibe, right? He's not. It's an odd fit.

I mean, the other quote I found that was really fascinating was he said he saw this movie as a little boy. It really stuck with him. It scared the shit out of him. And he had a big crush on the little girl. Like she was his, he was that age.

Right. But he was like, that was the first time I had a crush on a movie character. And I'm like, is that the only reason he did this? Is that age, right? But he was like, that was the first time I had a crush on a movie character. And I'm like, is that the only reason he did this? Not that I think he's sexualizing the children, but that the film has some weird primal imprint on him and he felt drawn to it. Even though he didn't have anything to say about it, really. I mean, that's why I still like the movie The Wizard with Fred Savage. Because you love her as Hush?

Yeah, you imprint. Well, actually, my first crush in the movie was like the bad guy with the power glove. In The Wizard? Yeah, in The Wizard. The bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. Don't Google that actor because bad things happen and I regret that crush.

But yeah. I don't know if it was literally the first. Oh no, is David Googling? Yeah, David's absolutely Googling. Are you kidding me? David was Googling before you finished the sentence. Well, luckily it'll take him a while to figure out the guy's name and then no idea who the guy's name is oh thank god let's just not do it then we're not gonna do it we're not gonna do it my memory i mean maybe there's one before this but my memory is my first like

serious movie crush was uh i feel like this is a thing of me being a couple years younger than everyone else on this show means no one else will have any idea what the fuck I'm talking about. There was a wonderful world of Disney TV movie called My Date with the President's Daughter, in which Will Friedle from Boy Meets World is like a

dork who does magic tricks, and he meets a beautiful girl at a mall who he's never seen at high school before, and he asks her out, and and she says yes and then he finds out that's the president's daughter who wants to live a normal life and sneak away from the white house so she can pretend to be a normal teenager for one night and dabney coleman is the president and the fucking secret service was your first crush dabney coleman you got the hottie you got there amy he was like wearing those tight suits and that red tie. But there's like,

she's like dressed up like a, you know, fucking Chelsea Clinton or whatever. And there's a scene where he takes her. She's like, let's go somewhere more dangerous. And they go to like a pool hall. And then she goes into the bathroom and comes out and she's changed into like a quote unquote sexier dress.

And she walks out of the bathroom and there's like a slow motion hair flip. And I just have this very distinct memory as like an eight-year-old or whatever going oh I am looking at the most beautiful woman in the world like it wasn't even like I'm crushed on this but I was like she is

she is in our it looks like the most beautiful Harnois she's on one of the procedural shows now yes Elizabeth Harnois she was like my first she's on csi she did a csi stint look i don't know who my first major crush is i probably said it on this podcast i just don't have any memories anymore uh lydia fucking lydia yeah lydia deets but like i was a kid that was more of a i guess that counts sure i mean that's what carpenter's saying about the little little damn girl.

Well, but here's the weird thing about him having a crush on the little damned girls, which is like they all look alike and they've all got the same hair. So how did he single one out? I don't know. It's very bizarre. I want to find this quote from. Do you think he really kind of liked all of them at once? But he didn't want to sound creepy. Yeah, he was like dipping his toe into poly

waters he was like someday i'm gonna grow up and i'm gonna be like richard richard plant is it richard plant he did addicted to love and all those videos with all the identical girls or yeah right that way no no addicted to love is robert palmer i like i like conflated him and like robert plant i was very nervous i was like talking about somebody cool instead of the guy with all the matching mannequins. Anyway, John Carpenter, that's him. Carpenter saw the original when he was 12 and it stuck in my mind for several reasons. The whole idea of a whole town blacking out was wow. That does feel that's a Carpenter idea.

In and of itself, that's a Carpenter idea. It also speaks to why the first 30 minutes are better than the rest of it. Also, I somehow got this incredible crush on one of the girls in the original. She was the first loved object I had. I wanted her to zap me and take me over. It's a good carpenter quote. That's so cute.

Imagine you're 12 years old and you want the girl to zap you and take you over by which you have to go take her out for a malted. Right. Buy her a candy bar. that's so sweet um i guess right there's there's a little more feeling to the the thomas decker's characters alienation his lack of partner maybe that's coming through but once again it's just sort of like no what an odd match but we should talk about those opening 30 minutes because I also thought they were pretty good.

And for a little bit, I got a flutter in my heart like, oh, man, am I going to go on blank check? We're going to talk about a movie that actually maybe is pretty good. That was my hope. I want to hold on to those 30 minutes. You know, the fun of like, hey, guys, this movie no one ever talks about. You know, John Carpenter. It's not actually that bad. Right. Like the sort of i found a diamond in the rough here right i agree with you the first 30 minutes are way more basically

this movie kind of has me until the kids this is the moment it completely lost me the kids i think but here's the moment where i truly was like wait what like is when kirstie alley's just like yeah they're not having any abortions and it's like why and she's like i don't know andey's just like, yeah, they're not having any abortions. And it's like, why? And she's like, I don't know. And I was just like, wait, that's it? That's the explanation. And then the kids arrive and then it's like it's dead. Like, as you say, the movie is dead. Visually, once you see the kids, I think he had to fucking reinvent them in some way.

But also, like, the more Kirstie Alley, Kirstie Alley is like a bearer of bad tides in this movie. Kiersey Alley is like a bearer of bad tides in this movie. Like whenever she comes in, a scene goes off the rails. There's the moment where she's delivering Meredith Salinger's child and she goes like, push, push. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. It's stillborn. And it's like one sentence.

It's so weird. There's a moment that's like as bizarre as her going like, I don't know. They're just not getting abortions. Where's like, OK, keep keep going. Push, push, push. I'm so sorry. It's still bored. And then they cut. OK, but like isn't isn't the reason why they don't get abortions because is because Kirstie Alley bribes them. And she's like, if you decide to have these kids, I'm going to give all of you three thousand dollars a month which is not yeah that's significant i mean today it's definitely significant in 1995 1995 yes if you save up like six months of having a damned baby you could get like a dodge neon you know you could you could really amp up your life which is why i also think it's kind of funny that like they i guess all agree

to have babies for the three thousand dollars and then in the next few years of their life that we see like the town looks worse like the cars seem even more broken everybody's still wearing the same like battered shitty jackets like wherever that three thousand dollars a month is going which should be a fortune i at least want to see people's houses get nicer like if you made this trade-off for cash that idea just gets completely dropped here which i'm i'm very curious about that was i the only one just like three thousand dollars this town should be nicer the ice cream shop you think it's like direct cash injections it's revitalization right yeah where where's the trickle-down effect from this

three thousand dollars a month well they also have those weird dreams. I read that as part of the thing that dissuaded them. That's what I sort of, right, they're kind of being influenced by... Oh, like the Enya music video dream? Yeah. Right. They're like, congratulations, if you're pregnant, you can wear a white

robe and your hair will blow and you could be on MTV. But this is, I feel like, I know it's again, like, it's just sort of obeying the plot structure of the story and the original movie. But I do kind of agree with Amy almost like, yeah, maybe the pregnancy should be longer.

Oh, yeah. And then we should just cut straight to them being grown kids. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how you how you approach this because the the biggest problem with the movie is the kids grow up kind of quickly you know in movie time and you're just i was just shouting at the screen where i'm just like how is no one doing

anything about this like right like it just sort of feels weird that they are allowed to reach the age of how old are they? Like eight, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever. Sure. I mean, yeah. Well, that's a question I had for you guys, because like I think in the book and in the original, they grow faster. They're like nine, but they look 16 or something. I mean, here, are they growing at normal speed? Like how many years have gone by before the kids are like walking and talking? I don't know. The children do seem en masse younger in this i i i think they're portrayed as younger and the actors

are also younger so you have sort of like weird child actor vibes uh where whereas in the original, maybe the, the actors, the kids are more like, well, close to teenage. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, I don't know. The sense of time is, is odd to me. It's also, I mean, it's one of these things, David, you, you pointed out that what makes the original work so well and what is probably the approach you need to this material is the sort of British tea sipping energy, which I don't know how you know that. But there's something to of the stylization of the kids, how they look visually, but the energy of which their performances are directed and all of that works in that type of movie. Right. That is a little more mannered and stilted and feels like a Twilight Zone episode. I mean, the original movie really has a Twilight Zone vibe. And then when you take the exact same look and you put it into a color film in the 1990s with a very different vibe,

a director has his own sensibility it like it really jars where i i will accept the theatrical convention of this is the way that you're coding me to understand these kids are different and when you watch the carpenter movie you're like why is no one commenting on the fact that the kids look so fucking weird i don't have that question watching the original movie where do they get their clothes that's what i kept asking like oh you're mad your kids are only wearing gray who's buying them gray clothes they're all complicit in this right they just like look at their parents gray gray their eyes flash the parents like okay and they call land's end they're costuming i think you're exactly honest i'm thinking of it like they're costuming to me you're exactly on to something griffith like their costuming to me

red is like john carpenter watched the original saw these creepy gray kids wasn't thinking they're wearing gray because it's a black and white movie sure just thinking like they were gray that's where they are they're just these kids who wear gray so transplanted this look straight away into the 90s without thinking about it at all. I mean, these kids should be wearing guest jeans. These kids should be causing mischief. That's what I kept thinking. Well, sure. They should be, like, causing deadly mischief. They shouldn't be so

stiff. It sucks to watch. Ben wants this movie to be like Problem Child. Kinda. Like Dennis the Menace. What Aliens was to Alien. This should be Dennis the Menaces. And it's just all of them are menaces. But, Amy, to that point, though menaces and it's just all of them are menaces uh but amy to that to that point though too it's just like i don't watch the original movie and think well their hair is silver i think this is a black and white movie and what they are trying to code us into

understanding is like they are fair children right they have these weird yellow white white eyes and this very fair hair. And then when you watch them in color and they're all wearing gray and their hair is all like platinum, like silver nitrate color, it feels like an odd affectation that is not acknowledged enough in the universe around them, even more so than their weird powers right because they're just their presentation is so odd i agree because for the british tea sippingness of it all what i think makes the kids so unnerving in the original is that on one hand they kind of are the perfect british children right they're like polite polite, sort of, you know, they're not being rowdy. They're not hooligans. They're dressed in ties. They're very well-mannered, quote unquote, to like the standards of 60s parenting day. They're proper the way that a

60s parent would have wanted, but also, you know, like evil and robotic, but they blend in, they blend in so well to what a good little kid was supposed to look like back then. And that makes them unnerving. And now they're just like, I don't know, you feel this way I was terrified of the video box for this movie when I was a kid I would look at it every single time I went to the rental store I knew that it was there I knew I was never going to rent it

because it was a grown-up movie but I would just take it off the shelf and look at the little blonde children with their glowing eyes. And I would be like, this must be the scariest movie ever made that like when I was like eight years old or whatever. This poster is plagued with the same thing we talked about in the mouth of Maddox.

It's not a great poster. It's like horrible early Photoshop. Like just like, what if we just fucking stretch? Yeah. Yeah. Weird warping. Um, I, I, look, it must have scared me.

It must have scared me. The Jesus out of me. I was such a I mean, you said I wonder if you agree with this because I have talked a lot about being scared by video boxes as a kid. I don't remember this one specifically, but it must have scared me. I mean, anything that was like evil toys or children i think scared me more for obvious reasons um another thing i mean just like the the 1960 movie is a 1960 studio horror film no one is naturalistic right the entire thing is theatrical and the star of the movie is george sanders who's

like one of the most mannered men in the history of american cinema he's great he's so great i love him he's amazing but so much of the movie is him sitting back and going like these children are quite strange aren't they and it's like yeah that's the vibe in which if the guy who's saying the children is strange is that strange and mannered himself. I'm like, well, this is of a piece. Christopher Reeve is going like pretty fucking minimalist in this movie. Like it's he's really doing very, very little in a way that doesn't help. Like you you maybe need someone getting.

You maybe need the normal people in this movie to be more over the top. If you're going to pull this off or, or the kids are more subtle. Because I mean, I think both, why not both? But like, I think with George Sanders, like,

I mean, the guy who wasn't, he was the critic and all about Eve. He kind of comes to the screen with this like intimidating. Oh yes. Like intellectualism. You get this vibe in the original film that the kids kind of respect him slightly more than everybody else in the town right they actually want to talk

to him kind of they're actually kind of enjoying and that's so much of the movie is him being like these children are strange like you do feel like the weight of the strain of the strangeness of the children is fully felt in that movie you know yeah exactly and Christopher Reeve I mean well first I want to just start by saying is this Christopher Reeve's real hair color because he's so blonde in this movie I

realized like my god I always just picture him with that like Clark Kent like jet blackness I was really surprised that he was kind of more like a weather beaten Redford look we should also call out, this is his last movie before the accident. It's his last movie ever. This is the last one.

The accident happens like a month after this movie is released. Yeah, he buys the horse that the accident happens on during the making of this movie. The horse is named Buck. Yeah, and the movie comes out, this is the last movie where he walks. And then he essentially, after this, what?

He does the Rear Window remake for TV. He does a couple episodes of Smallville. He obviously devotes most of his time and energy to research. Stem cell research. Right. I'm sorry. He has two other movies that come out after this that were shot before. He has Above Suspicion.

And he has Black Fox? No, what's it called? A Step Toward Tomorrow. This is the last one that is released. I'm sorry. Step Toward Tomorrow, he is paralyzed. So there's one movie released after this shot before. Those are TV movies, though.

No, this is his last film, film, film, film. This is it. This is the movie that's still probably clinging barely on into theaters when he's on the cover of People magazine with his accident. Correct. Right. I remember his accident being so like I was little. I was nine when this movie comes out. But my parents just trying to impress upon me like how shocking the whole thing was.

And then remember he was at the Oscars Griffin and everyone like you know gave him a standing ovation and all that you know I remember that I remember finding it so thoroughly upsetting as a child like it was but it was obviously everyone talked about it but it was just like

the the irony of the thing was so sort of like tragic where it was like Superman can't walk? Everyone was just sort of like, what a tragedy, and he was known to be such a good guy, and he was this fucking, I don't know, this avatar of American integrity. Here's my thing on Reeve.

I feel like when I was a kid, the reputation of Reeve that I knew was kind of like, well, he was Superman, and he never really like overcame being superman like as you know he struggled as a movie star like you you know and then like anytime i see him in another movie i've always like i love him in death trap i love he's kind of a lot of fun and noises off yeah which is thinking you know kind of a bad movie but like you know he's pretty good. I like him in The Remains of the Day.

Like, I've always been kind of like, is he kind of an underrated actor? Yeah. Like, you know, like in general, then obviously also

the Superman performance. I feel like people have only grown in appreciation for that. Like, as sort of comic book acting has become such a huge quadrant

of Hollywood where they're kind of like that performance is amazing versus at the time i think people were like well he's this handsome guy they just sort of found him on the street he looks like superman he's not acting he's just kind of and then you you watch the clark kent performance is so good right yeah it's and by all i mean that was not who he was i think he was was closer to Clark Kent than he was to Superman in a lot of ways. But he is the the one actor in live action who I think has convincingly sold that you would not believe that Superman and Clark Kent are the same person. He does it through a certain degree of theatricality, but you buy it like you you buy into the flight of fancy there. I mean, you're able to buy that Margot Kidder would look at Clark Kent and not think he's devastatingly handsome, which is crazy. You know that he's a little bit of a goober.

And right. And I feel like Christopher Reeve is an actor that we never really got the full expression of for kind of what kind of what David is talking like. There's a lot of Christopher Reeve movies. I'll be honest, I haven't seen because they sounded like adult and kind of boring when i was little and i've never gone back to them but he is a guy who i mean not only is he like the total like classic american like family came over on the mayflower went to ivy league schools went to juilliard like he was a shakespeare theater guy he's like this is a guy who's like fluent in french you know what i mean this is a guy who was handpicked by katherine hepburn to play her grandson on stage and then he's offered superman and he's like well marlon brando's in it and i'm a serious actor so i can do this and he really does just become completely

consumed by the superman identity in the public eye like me me included me raising my hand and saying like i'm totally guilty yeah and so i feel like this was a guy who could have been on a channel to be like an olivier and then instead he's like winds up in village of the damned in his time that's like pre-nerd revival, where he's kind of seen as a loser for being in this movie. Right. Is that fair to say? Yeah. I mean, it's he's very fascinating to me. I remember, I mean, whatever it was, 2017, 2018, having this conversation with you, David, a couple of times of like the two people I'm really curious to watch how their careers play out now are Chadwick Boseman and Gal Gadot, because they felt like the two people I'm really curious to watch how their careers play out now are Chadwick

Boseman and Gal Gadot because they felt like the two people who more so than any other superhero actors potentially were stuck in the Christopher Reeve crosshair right where it was just like this character has become so iconic and so representational and they did so much work to sort of transform into this thing that seems sort of otherworldly. Will they ever be able to play anything else and be accepted for that

and sort of seen as normal for that? And then it's like Chadwick dies and Gal Gadot feels like, no, at this point, it feels like she's probably never going to overcome

being Wonder Woman. She can kind of give you one thing, right? Right. And that was just a perfect fit and she couldn't even really pull it off the second time. You know? I mean, I think what makes her so good

at Wonder Woman, and I say good with like a million air quotes and ad fixes, is that Gal Gadot kind of enters that movie really not understanding what it's like to be a human being as Gal. I don't think Gal Gadot really gets it. She's like, what, I'm just an effortlessly beautiful woman who has babies and stays this thin.

And I like, I don't know. I show up and I get these great roles. Like she doesn't understand what it's like to be a normal mortal at all. And I think that that translates in the movies. And it's the best accidental thing about her casting. I guess I think that first movie uses her very well. And I think it's clear that what Bozeman did in Black Panther is closer to what Christopher Reeve did, where he really built a thing that hit such a nerve and became so much bigger than him. All of this said, though, my whole thing is like with all this said, he's kind of bad at this.

He seems a little at sea in this movie. I guess the nicest way to put it. He just seems to not really know what's expected of him. But but I also think if you look at his career up until this point, I mean, it's like. I don't know, in certain ways, is this more of a strategic? I need to be a leading man again, sort of play than a lot of the other movies he had done, where it feels like he's sort of like, because, I mean, Jesus Christ, you look at his fucking career, right?

Superman's his second film, right? He gets that movie because they've cast Brando and Hackman. So they've cast, like, two humongous Oscar winners. Right, the money is with those guys. Right, they're going to be first and second bill. And also, almost everyone in the supporting cast of that movie has an Oscar nomination. It's like wild

how deep that cast is. So they want to cast fucking like Nick Nolte and Robert Redford and all the obvious people and everyone turns it down and they're like, what if we just save money and find an unknown guy? And it's this masterstroke because it's like you get to build a guy who then only becomes Superman in people's minds,

which then fucks his career a little bit. But he didn't. Toriously, when he goes in for his audition is like a beanpole. And they're like, how much muscle can you gain? You know, like he went in looking like Clark Kent. And he, as you said, Amy, kind of built himself, gave himself to this role and made himself Superman. Then somewhere in time, which I feel like is probably his best received non-Superman movie, right?

It has sort of the largest footprint. But even then as a cult film, that's the same year as Superman 2. Then it's like Death Trap, right? He's amazing in Death Trap. But at that point, it's four years after the first Superman. And he's played Superman twice,

and he's done somewhere in time. And then he does a movie called Monsignor that I have never seen. And then he does... Monsignor. Sorry, Superman 3. It's just Superman swallowing so much of it. Then Merchant Ivory movie. Yeah, I know.

But here's the thing. He turned down American Gigolo. He turned down Splash. Sure. He turned down Fatal Attraction. He turned down Romancing the Stone. He turned down Let sure he turned down fatal attraction he turned down romancing the stone he turned down lethal weapon he would keep turning down these movies yeah he turned down all these sort of like movies that became hits and he became this kind of like

hollywood story of like well you know you miss 100 of the shots you don't take right like look at christopher reeve and like i feel like he would always be like well i'm not right for that i'm such a golden boy like you know he was too in his head about taking these sort of like slightly scummier roles and he probably should have tried it maybe he would have been bad at it i don't you know maybe those movies don't work with christopher reeve but also like he does street smart and street smart is a flop and its only legacy is that it's morgan freeman's first nomination like the other guy pops in it right like that's the movie that puts Morgan Freeman kind of on the map I I think to some degree somewhere in this like in this kind of gray zone of his career I think he becomes kind of a curse where people like oh a Christopher Reeve movie that's not a Superman movie and I

mean when when he does in Village of the damned reviewers are calling this movie, like they're saying that basically it's like the cast of people who should be in a love boat episode put in this John Carpenter movie. Like they are mean to the cast because he's in it. He becomes a punchline in a way. He's the original kind of like superhero punchline, right? Like kind of the same thing that happened to Brandon Routh or whoever, but like he's the, you know, original version of it. And you have to imagine that like a guy with his intellectual background

probably really liked George Sanders and was like, okay, I could do a George Sanders part. That original movie is so good, but I hate to throw Carpenter under the bus a little bit here. He's not a guy who cares if his actors are any good. Can we, right? I disagree with that.

I disagree with that. I think this is when he's losing control. This is the first movie where I go like, he is not in control of any of these performances. Oh, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I think he has never, I don't think he's had a strong hand in almost any of his performances.

I think he either casts really well and they get it or he casts okay but they don't get it and he doesn't correct them i don't think he guides them back onto a track i don't think he has a track in mind when he's making this movie i think he kind of hangs his actors out to dry there are a lot of good performances in carpenter movies then there are a lot of performances you don't think about in carpenter movies i would say yeah sure you know where you're just like oh yeah that's just like some guy i would not give him credit for the good ones and i mean this with all love and respect i wouldn't i think he i think he casts well but then it is funny griff how often we've talked about his use of kurt russell but almost

every time he's using kurt russell he's kind of like but what if i got a movie star and he ends up with kurt russell and he's like well kurt's good and it's like yeah kurt's good yet yeah idiot you know like right this is like 50 of this movie um well don't you think i i just yeah no i was just gonna say i i'm just looking at like the chris for reeve here thing here in totality right and it does feel like arguably village of the damn why am I saying it weird village of the day you're struggling does not say children I know I know corn of the damned is arguably you could see it as him in 1995 going ate that damn corn. I need to do something commercial,

right? Like I need to do something where I am the guy, whether or not it's a Christopher Reeve vehicle and it's like a commercial picture and it's a normal thing because he's turned down so many hits. And I think a lot of the films he made were, I think him trying to stretch himself outside of Superman and not conform to the boxes that Hollywood probably wanted him to fit into. I think probably because he was a serious actor and not someone who was movie star minded that like it was more interesting for him to take on things that were like odd challenges, you know, or projects that might not get made if he wouldn't sign himself to it, rather than, this thing's going to be a hit, do you want to be the guy in the hit or not?

Oh, God. Oh, God. You know who he was, and I feel bad even bringing this person's name up, because of dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. He kind of army-hammered himself. Kind of. There's a thing, like, there's a type of actor where they're really tall and handsome, like, crazy crazy tall crazy handsome and nobody knows what the hell to do

with them this is my dude it's like how can i be in i'm trying like lethal weapon it doesn't make sense that someone is good looking and charming honestly that's true it's like super true and so they like bind up in these kind of weird roles or they're trying to cast against type and if they aren't intellectual if they did go to an ivy league college like reeve did they're gonna out game themselves which is what he did i think i think he outsmarted himself a little bit i mean it was like the merchant ivory was sort of the only fruitful collaboration he found makes sense in those post superman and and superman ended up sort of getting like off the rails this movie just feels to me like he has this sort of tired resigned energy of like my agents are gonna fucking drop

me if i'm not in something that like it's it's a billy bob thornton thing i've quoted where he says like my agents every four years ago like billy you need to do a bus stop movie again you need to do a movie where the posters will be at bus stops yeah you know like you can do your fucking weird shit but every four years you have to play the heavy in some movie that's gonna like the mass public at least knows that it came out whether or not it's a hit but the and the thing with this is it's like no major actor's gonna take this movie because the star of this movie is creepy kids right like that's right you're gonna sell the movie on it's not gonna be like you're on the poster with a gun like pointing

at her creepy kids so he's also just probably reached that point in his career where it's like yeah he'll do it you know like no we're not gonna we're not going to get ex-A-lister, right? Yeah, yeah. And he gets to say like, oh, I'm working on Village of the Damned now. And people go like, oh, I know what that is.

With John Carpenter. I recognize that. Right. Those things make sense to me. Kirstie Alley is in that zone that most sitcom stars found themselves in in the 80s and 90s.

Kirstie's in her Emmy streak, though. So it's not that insulting to be doing a movie with her. And I mean, if anything bring to bring the evil death stare back to carpenter he's reflecting carpenter's energy carpenters do it for kind of the same reasons carpenter's like i don't know what i'm doing i don't really want to make this movie this is kind of lame like i guess i'll do this like well i guess that's my other point is even if Kurt was the one who was doing much of the crafting, there was this sense of Carpenter knowing how to use leading men in interesting ways. Right. And subverting sort of like leading men.

And there just feels like no craft construction thought put into this Christopher Reeve character. no craft construction thought put into this Christopher Reeve character. This is just sort of like John Normal guy, Dr. John Normal guy, who gets increasingly wary as this thing gets bad. I mean, the most interesting thing about his character, about Christopher Reeve's character, is his house, right?

Because that first little shot of his house on the cliff, this like ridiculous town, by the way, like Midwich, it's like, it's like kind of comically, it's like you assembled it from nine postcards from iraq you're like here's some cliffs here's some deer here's some lakes uh here's our western saloon and then you go inside christopher reeves's house and it's like covered in dried flowers right it's like a witch's house yeah i mean did anybody else notice that because it weirded me out it's like here witch's house yeah i mean did anybody else notice that because it weirded me out it's like here's christopher reese's house he's walking around and it's like

covered in dead flowers on the inside but like what is he doing with all that stuff makes you go like who the fuck is this guy and not in a way where i'm interested trying to figure him out i'm like did anyone make any decisions here well that's i don't think they did because you put like his performance next to mark hamill's performance next to kirstie alley's performance and there's nobody saying let's make sure these three people are in the same movie no i i think there's one good adult performance in this movie and i'm curious if we all agree on it is it mark hamill i think it's linda kozolowski is pretty good yeah she's pretty she's pretty good. And we've covered the fucking Crocodile

Dundee trilogy, and this is one of her only non-Croc Dundee movies. This is essentially the end of her career. She does this, she hasn't done it for six years until Dundee in Los Angeles, and that's her final film role. It's pretty much one of the only movies she made without

Paul Hogan in it. Now, I'll say this, Paul Hogan might be fun in this movie. I would have liked to see Paul Hogan in it. Now, I'll say this. Paul Hogan might be fun in this movie. I would have liked to see Paul Hogan. Paul Hogan maybe walks into this movie, gives it 10% more juice. But I was going to say, because Hamill is kind of just doing his 90s Hamill thing.

He's hammy. He's not bad. Almost not hammy enough. I mean, it's... I think they don't give him the room to do it. I think there's only like two Hamill scenes. He shows up, he's freaking about like finger paints or some people are freaking out about finger paints.

And he's just like nervous and then that's kind of it. He gives like a speech where he's like, I don't know, science doesn't make sense, but what about God? And then he goes crazy. Like he doesn't, there's not enough, there's not enough Hamill interiority in this movie, I feel like.

Like I want to know what's happening with him. No. And I think this is the period of time where he got very cartoony. But if you're going to hire him, then let him go huge.

You know, like, I, yeah, it's, he's an odd, every performance in this is in a different movie. And I'm going to blame Carpenter for that. No, I think absolutely fair. I don't know if I agree at large with your takes on him as an actor's director,

but in this movie, absolutely. David, I'm sorry, what were you going to say? Well, I rarely say this, but this movie should probably be longer. He almost could benefit from just a little more time spent on developing things. could benefit from just a little more time spent on developing things and instead like we got that first half hour that's sort of compelling and then once the kids are around we're just kind of interspersing the kinds of scenes you're talking about like hamill gives a speech and i'm like what was that and then the kids march into some room and stare at someone and they're like you know and they like you know pour acid on themselves or whatever and they're like, and they pour acid on themselves or whatever.

And they just sort of repeat that ping pong back and forth for an hour. Yeah, but what you're not getting is what leads to the most interesting part of the movie, that this is a group of kids whose parents don't love them. Yeah, right.

Sims, you became a parent. The time that goes into what waiting for the birth preparing all the anticipation and then to go through and you have a kid who freaks you out and is disappointing like that's interesting yeah david as someone disappointed by your daughter what do you think of this movie david is someone whose daughter could possibly kill all of us with her stare. No, this is the whole thing. She does have big eyes. Amy, Amy, Amy, you have not met Sims' daughter. I don't know if you

follow the Instagram, Amy. Absolutely. Absolutely looks like someone who could kill people with her stare. You should follow the gram, Amy, if you don't. I'm going to send you a picture right now. Amy, Amy, it is wild. We were hanging out with two other friends who have small children and so there were six parents sitting around and the other four parents just kept on

going jesus fucking christ her eyes uh she does have intense eyes but i will that that's what i'm what i will say amy is what you're like i kept having questions stuff like the fact that they have like clothes right like where i'm like the parent bought them clothes do they go to school like what's a night like with these kids does the parent go like eat your chicken nuggets and the kid's like no i am part of a hive mind like what's that conversation i have a partner we've imprinted upon each other so much of parenting so far you know it's just a lot of daily grind stuff you know it's all enchanting and wonderful but it's also kind of like all right you gotta eat you gotta sleep you gotta you know and like is that is that how it is with these guys

or are they just sort of going home and like pouring themselves a martini and their parents are like yeah i don't i don't know what's going on with my kids i don't really have a relationship with them. Yeah, there's none of that. There's none of that take a shower, brush your teeth. Like, did they change their diapers when they were little? And also in the original, there's at least like siblings. Like all of these guys seem to be only kids. So there's no other kid kind of stuck in a house with them being like, you freak me out.

There's really no human point of view on these kids besides like oh get away like they treat them like cockroaches it does feel like we're like fucking five seconds away from a 10-part prestige village of the damn miniseries right we're like here's how you stretch it out and someone at you know hulu is listening and they're like hmm i will say it's actually already been green lit in eng England they're making it as a TV series But they're going back to the OG the midwitch Doing a midwitch

But this movie has a Has the plot device They kind of pair off Not with siblings but they just sort of They're bonded pairs The kids and so then you have the one Kid David Played by Thomas Decker sort of they're two they're bonded pairs the kids and so then you have the one kid David played by Thomas Decker

Griffin yes went on to be in stuff right he was in heroes and shit Sarah Connor Chronicles and all that he was John Connor he was the Zelinsky boy in Honey I Shrunk the TV series right and so he's like

supposed to be the sort of like not quite evil one because he never, he never, I guess, found his partner. Yeah, exactly. So like if he had a girlfriend, he'd be more evil?

Exactly. Then she'd keep him on the straight and narrow. Everything I learned on Reddit. Amy, you have to stop going to that page. You gotta stop going. You gotta stop going uh it also feels like that's a weird carpenter thing seeping through of just like what's the most horrifying

reality i can imagine not having a little children of the damned girl to date right so fate worse than death i mean we haven't acknowledged this is the other thing i mean we have to acknowledge carpenter this is the quote i knew exactly where to shoot it shoot it i live up there you know like this whole thing is shot near infernesse california where he shot the fog yeah and it's just like he's just like it's great because you just point the camera anywhere and there's like a beautiful vista but he's not saying like yeah i'll make village of the damned if you know you make it at my house basically like that's what he ended up doing they made like a 22 million

dollar movie in his backyard like there's no that's that testifies to the lack of effort here like the fog he's looking out at the fog and he's like i've got an idea this is just like yeah i don't know what if the village of the damned was my village? His Alive Pictures deal fell apart and there was a lawsuit and the settlement was the deal sort of transferred over to Universal. And he was like, this is great. The Universal terms are great. I have bigger budgets, more freedom. They really trust me. Like he seemed very happy with like, I've never had a better time working with a studio. This was perfect. They gave me a lot of room. It was nice to work with a budget over $10 million again.

But it also just feels like it feels like some degree of passion is gone now. Yeah. I mean, I'm just speculating here and I'm not his therapist. here and i'm not his therapist uh but like it feels to me that carpenter was trying to make a bad movie as though he was saying hey hollywood give me your money and i will prove that you have no good ideas like if you want me to remake this movie to fulfill a contractual obligation fine like i will show you that i can that remake suck like it's kind of like he's putting a 22 million dollar gun to their head and saying either give me freedom and money or i'm just gonna take your money and give you guys the finger but he's also a guy who's done

good remakes up until this point even if they didn't play well at the time and and he in interviews at the time his movies coming out would not mince any words. And for this one, he was like, this is great. This is the best relationship I've ever had with a studio. Well, I mean, there's this interview from 2011, I think it's for The Ward, where the interviewer asks, like, what's a project you, you know,

didn't, like, catch on with audiences? And he's like, well, there's The Thing, which bombed, but I think it's one of my best films. And then he says i'm really not passionate about village of the damned i was getting rid of a contractual assignment although i will say it has a very good performance from christopher reeve so there's some value in that nice to toss chris a bone but he does kind of basically there just take this movie out back and shoot it he's like whatever that was just kind of a you know feeling to the weirdest thing griff is this movie came out two months after mountain of madness

that's so fucking weird because they held over that movie for so long yeah he basically had two movies back to back this year i mean this is the other quote from him uh it was fun to do a drama like village as opposed to in the mouth of madness which has a little edge to it this is more straight this is more baby boomer, middle class kind of movie. There's nothing wrong with that. I just hadn't done one of those in a long time. If you make a movie over 10 million, you got to try to reach out to the broadest audience you can find.

If you make it under 10 million, you're able to make it more quirky, more daring, more subversive if you want to use that word. Like, it's just him sort of saying like, I don't know, I'm making one of these. Yeah, he like doesn't seem to care. Okay, a quote then fine here's my cover to quote that i found he said at the time you know he's like that's a pretty easy little movie to make you don't have to do much the original you've just got to bring it up to date humanize it a little

and make the characters rich and i will say he did none of those things like he didn't bring it up today he didn't humanize it and he didn't make the characters rich so it's Like, he didn't bring it up to date. He didn't humanize it and he didn't make the characters rich. So it's really like he didn't try. Even with the low stakes, he said he had to try. Well, I'll one up you with yet another quote, OK?

Oh, good. So this is from Starlog, but this is when he's promoting Escape from L.A. The easiness of the production. As as JJ, our researcher pointed out, seemed to be the main appeal. He goes, people sneak up on me occasionally and say, boy, I loved Invisible Man. That film was

a difficult experience for me. That was as close as I've ever had to a why am I doing this situation? I thought at that point, life was miserable. I felt, why live this way? Maybe I should be doing something else for a living. But I did a couple of good films after after that and now I'm having a pretty good time for an old guy. It does sound a little bit like here's this guy who's been fighting so fucking hard for all his movies for like 20 years and most of them are shit on at the time. And he was just like,

I don't know, can I do this the way other people seem to do it? Other people seem to not be fucking. What if I just don't care? Losing their minds all the time. Right, there's that attitude. He seems tired. It feels like he's settled he's like you're fine we'll go to applebee's i'll marry you i don't care i'm done right i'm 32 yeah we i've done the thing i had my hot and fast loves of my life early on like here we go and now what i think the irony is, is because he didn't, I believe, and I say this again, it pains me. You know I love Carpenter.

I did a whole podcast on Carpenter. I was going to ask you. Yeah. So it pains me to throw him under the bus and like shoot him with my village of the damn laser eyes. But by not, I believe, fighting harder for his career in whatever form that would have taken. fighting harder for his career in whatever form that would have taken either like fighting harder to make studio movies like maybe actually trying to humanize this movie a little bit and make the characters rich whatever version of fighting he didn't bother to do it set him up to now become the guy whose own movies are just getting these kind of mediocre remakes yeah he has become the

guy that he was now and he's just like whatever i'll do the score who cares yeah like his cynicism really breaks my heart because i don't feel like it had to be that way but i guess he was kind of always like a cynical weird guy to begin with before he even made a movie and is it just like he just it all went to that incredible sort of 10 15 year run right he just pours all the energy in and i I guess Memoirs of an Invisible Man, that would be the one where he's like, I'm fine. You broke me.

I'm done. I know I've made a lot of good movies. I can't fight anymore. So yeah, I'll just, we'll see. I was going to say that. That's the other factor. You cannot under rate Chevy Chase's capacity to break a man.

Just snap him in half. We can talk around this and there are other factors at play, but like, what's wrong with this movie? I don't know. It's a guy coming off of a Chevy Chase picture. I know Mouth of Madness is in between, but like, maybe the chase takes a little while to catch up, you know?

But that's the, I mean, now i think of him and i i do want to ask you and me about doing your halloween podcast which is incredible and people should listen to it if they haven't already um it was from when was it from it was for the 2018 movie right it was yeah yeah yeah 2018 um halloween season's almost over right but um but like i do feel like now, I imagine David Gordon Green sitting down with him being like Yeah, so what I'm thinking for Halloween kills

Is like this and this and this What do you think? And Carpenter's like Huh? Whatever, you know, cool I'm just gonna do some synths That's what I'm thinking Let me noodle back here You know, and Green's like Well, I'm trying to pay homage to you and he's

like uh-huh like i just feel like he's completely over all of it right what's the vibe you got from him what i got like he was the first interview i did for that podcast so i was absolutely nervous like it was like whatever we got from him had to be kind of the the skeleton we hung the rest of the show on so i mean i prepped for that like i was gonna be like katie couric at the presidential debates i was like freaked out and i was like i have exactly this amount of time and i'm gonna like waste three minutes tactically to talk to him about nba basketball at the beginning knowing that he likes basketball and i like basketball maybe that'll get him to like relax with me a little bit you're cool right

totally worked totally worked I will say that. But what I got from him is I'm going to call it big cat energy. Which is a thing I've been thinking about a lot watching the new season of Secession because Brian Cox plays his character on Secession with, I also believe, big cat energy.

I don't know if you guys are cat people. I'm a Brian Cox person. It's my association like if a cat doesn't want to care about something it just absolutely won't if you're like hey cat look at me and the cat continues to stare at nothing in the corner like to me that is very carpenter we're like you will he will be roused only for what he wants to be roused and if you put a leash on him he'll play dead like he will only do what he wants to do winning of his own freedom and accord the sense of being free i think is really important to him absolutely yeah playing dead on the outside playing apathetic on the outside is like a superpower and it enables him to live this creative weird life of like noodling around and creating his own grateful dead cover band or whatever he does like in in his own home. I also think that I I I want to make it clear this is not my opinion. This is

an unfortunate reality that I've come to accept. I think caring too much is a liability in the entertainment industry. I think it is a thing that people will almost always interpret as a weakness or a vulnerability that they can manipulate to their own ends. And I do think there is a strategic nature to, as much as I do believe he is a pretty brutally cynical man on some basic level,

at least in terms of his worldview or his judgment of other people or whatever. I do think there is that couching of, it hurts so much to fucking care and everyone else is going to fucking, if they know there's a spot, they're going to poke that bruise, you know? I think that's very true.

He dealt with that pain. He had those wounds, right? I sympathize with it. He had those wounds. Right. And he's just... I sympathize with it. He's like, yeah, you know, I just don't want to have the knockdown drag out. I don't want to have my baby get suffocated in the editing room, right? Or whatever

it is. Whatever he's... I get it. And he also made a bunch of good movies. So he's allowed. I mean, especially when you put your name on the title of your movie still. Like, John Carpenter's allowed. Yeah. I mean, especially when you like put your name on the title of your movies still like John Carpenter's this for it to not feel like yours for people to fuck with you and have it get smothered. Like that's painful as anything. And I mean, to me, the biggest mystery of people who work in Hollywood and get these big blank check paydays is why they just keep keep making movies. blank check paydays is why they just keep keep making movies like to me if i was like an actress or or director and i had you know like yeah if i had enough in the bank at a certain point after like my 10th film or something enough to like drink wine and no i don't even like wine enough to drink whiskey and read books the rest of my life with like a cat at my ankles why would i

keep getting plastic surgery and going out there and like, and struggling for respect? I don't know why they do it. I mean, this is like, David and I talk about this with Bruce Willis all the time. He is but one example, but that's one where you're just like, he does not have Nick Cage style,

notorious tax troubles or whatever, you know, where you're just like, why are you doing these things you seem to hate, you know, where you're just like, why are you doing these things you seem to hate, you know, that are only sort of like diminishing your legacy? And there is this lost thing of like, oh, James Cagney just like wouldn't make a movie for 25 years and then was like, I guess I'll do ragtime, you know, like Greta Garbo doesn't work the last 40 years of her life, 50. Like there there was several eras of movie stars where the majority of them, even the

biggest ones, would just at some point be like, yeah. Yeah. Starting with Mary Pickford, the first movie star. She was like, oh, gosh, I'm nearly 40. Bye. I'm going to be at Pickford. See y'all later. And maybe you're able to, like, coax them out of retirement, get to do one thing a decade star she was like oh gosh I'm nearly 40 bye I'm gonna be at pick fair see y'all later and maybe

you're able to like coax them out of retirement gonna do one thing a decade or whatever once every 20 years or whatever but it's like Aladdin just never did it again and people feel so unwilling to let go these days that it makes Gene Hackman seem like a curio and there's a selfishness where you're like man it'd be fucking rad to see Gene Hackman show up in a movie tomorrow and have his fastball. But also, I'm just like, I don't know, the guy fucking retired. He writes historical novels. It goes to diners, gets accidentally filmed by Guy Fieri. Sounds like a perfect life.

I will also say in Carpenter's defense, I've never heard a good thing about the ward. But the next three movies, Escape from L.A., Vampires, la vampires ghosts of mars all kind of have their defenders and maybe have a little from la right you know you know like those he's having fun like they disappointed a little on release but now people are like right exactly like oh those are fun and those are cute you know or what you know so this one and the ward i mean memoirs and missile man it's very obvious what happened there like that that's true that's a star problem as you say but like this one in the ward of the only two where i feel like the the breed is still like was carpenter just kind of checked out he just didn't really give a shit like you know it's sort of surprising considering his his filmography i'll say this too

though like i was always fucking told as an actor, like, you care too much about this shit. You overthink this stuff too much. You need to fucking calm down and just treat this like a job. Right. And I would always resent people telling me that that was a liability, you know, that that was a hindrance for me getting jobs or being able to secure jobs or gotten in the way of me doing the jobs when I'm like fucking caring about this is the whole point and there are times where I've been like I don't know what if I try not caring about this you know oh my god you guys griffin what that's that's the whole point of the movie the kids are saying over and over again empathy is a problem why do you have empathy why do you have emotions caring too much about this is going to destroy you all why bother caring and oh my god that's exactly what he that's exactly what carpenter's argument oh my god because i was gonna say this feels like him try me maybe this feels like him going like what if i try one movie where i don't give a shit right and for whatever you want to throw at vampires and ghosts of mars escape from LA,

no one's going to say, like, that feels like that is made apathetically. But this is a movie about him trying to be like, I don't know, let me do what other people do, which is that they just show up and they do their job and they cash their check and they go home

and they don't fucking start World War III over, like, their little, like, genre movie. And it's evil. It's bad. Not giving a shit's bad. Not giving a shit's bad. But, but giving a shit is bad because that's how the movie ends. Okay.

Okay. But like, think about this. Like the whole last third of the movie is about like, are we going to rescue David? David's a little bit better than the rest of them. Like we should take care of David. Well,

let's not pump Sims up too much. He's smart. Well, you're, you're fine, David. When I was a little bond boy i also spelled my name in blocks but like speaking of creepy david who's to be clear creepy david is

the movie david um speaking of creepy david like there is this big push for empathy and like maybe this boy can be saved and maybe it's okay to have a heart after all. But the way the movie ends is like probably not like you saved a guy who's going to kill people. Like, yeah, I think the movie does say it like it to me. That's like one of the frustrating things about the build up to the climax is like you're watching Christopher Reeve and Linda kind of like sweat and try to save David from not having to die in the giant fireball. So many fireballs in this movie that feels like that's where most of the budget went giant fireball um so many fireballs in this movie like it feels like that's where most of the budget went is fireballing yeah but like i was watching that stretch and being like why do you want david to live he's still also probably evil and like yeah maybe they're like hiding his face when other people glow their eyes and murder people so we can't tell whether or not

he's like murdering with his eyes as well they just hide that from us but like don't have empathy for david and they do and that's gonna wind up really badly for all of humanity right yeah like david does not look like he's gonna be nice to us no matter no matter the fact that he was safe from the fireball because like also all his friends just got killed so it's so weird that this is a movie where just like in the original late in the film kirstie alley gets the news that society is nuking basically towns to kill these kids she delivers it with like mild surprise and the movie kind of just moves on like why isn't that so chilling like i should watch that and be so freaked out and instead i'm i don't know it's the same like what you said griffin with the stillbirth

yeah where like that scene should be so weird and instead she treats it like she's like stealing some apples from the grocery store she kind of just is like i'm sorry it's stillborn and like sneaks out it's a run-on sentence like she does not play the moment where she observes that the baby is stillborn no and then you see the baby later and it's supposed to be like this horrifying shocking image and it just looks like the alien from mac and me but with a really prominent vagina and he's usually so good at the fucking rubber shit like and this movie had a big budget i know for him i know it's so weird, I think you cracked it, Amy. And that is the angle through which this film becomes interesting only as a piece of his narrative.

It still is not a compelling movie on its own. But I do think you're right. I think that is what's going on here. Can you do me a favor quickly and click the file I placed into the chat of the Zoom, Amy? Oh, my God. Yes, there it is. of the Zoom Amy. Oh my God. Yes, there it is. Okay, one second. Uh-oh.

Griffin, you love to send a picture of my child as a sort of a surprise moment for the podcast. Yes. He has it on his desktop now. It's the same expression as when you sent me a picture of her earlier, David. And I was like, your baby just looks like she has a secret. She doesn't want to tell anyone. That secret.

I mean, she might she might be damn. No. Get out of here. Well, no, I'll tell you. She's not. She's not. She's not. I'm joking.

I'm joking. Of course. Mean joke. Amy, she does have a secret. I'm going to share another picture here quickly. Here, if you want to just look. I think it's very sweet that you collect these. Of course.

If you want to just click this quickly, it's a link. This is just your favorite new bit. She looks like the boss baby. Actually, she does look like the boss baby. I know. I know she looks like the boss baby. Uh-huh. Actually, she does look like the boss baby. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I know she looks like the boss baby. We all know it. But that's a great thing.

The boss baby's the boss. The boss baby's a movie star, too. She's in charge. She's a fucking movie star, boss baby. Boss baby, fucking $20 million opening weekend. How many people can say that? Runs shit, David. Yeah.

Runs shit. What if we made the boss baby of the damned? That's the thing. What if the third boss baby is that their eyes start glowing and they start making people kill themselves? The suicides are so... The guy

jumping off the roof and then like pailing himself on the broom. And then it's like such an obvious dummy. It's so weird the gags right no it's not scary at all the only one that kind of got me was the guy who falls asleep on his grill and i was gonna say that was kind of one fucking compelling image and it's like yeah you're only seeing the aftermath of it he He really looks like a sausage man. It's so well done.

He looks a little tasty. Yeah, but that was like a punk joke. That was a nasty, mean, punk joke. I appreciated that. I also appreciated that we kill off Linda's husband so early. Yeah, Michael Perry dies immediately. Immediately. I'm not that familiar with the work of him, but I was watching him and I was like, OK, this guy looks like if Jason Priestley and Luke Perry had a baby.

He is one of these guys where I every time he's in a movie, I go, who is this guy? Oh, that's Michael Pera. Like he just never sticks in my head. Streets of Fire is his big thing. And Eddie and the Cruisers. But I never am able to remember it's the same guy. I'm just like, oh, okay. He's one of those guys who kind of just, he looks like a guy. Like, you know, in the 80s especially.

He looked like, you know, a movie star, but he didn't, whatever. He was always kind of knockoff. Yeah. And I guess that's just how it is. I like the music that his character listens here as he drives around his Canadian tuxedo to prove that he's the cool guy. It's like that bluesy sort of noodling rock. He's like, do-do-do-do-do-do. And then he crashes and his tank explodes.

I mean, that, to me, surprised me. I wasn't expecting that because he looked generic handsome enough. I thought he'd be around longer. And then I wound up Googling, like, does helium explode? Helium doesn't explode. He is high billing. And then I wound up Googling, like, does helium explode? Helium doesn't explode. He is high billing. But this movie, apart from, I guess, the kids, yeah, doesn't have a lot of characters who do much, really.

Kind of the problem. That's another moment I kind of like is when they border outside of the town when the blackout happens and they're sending people in and all the cops are passing out. That moment where they put the guy in the rope. Yeah, like the first 30 minutes, there's a lot of good shit like that. The barbecue guy is in that. I think seeing all the collapsed dogs is really creepy.

All of those dogs just collapsed in the road. How did they get the dogs to collapse like that? All that blackout stuff feels to me like a better execution of what M. Night was trying to do in The Happening. Where it's just like, this is

weird. Why is everyone behaving strangely? Why is society just sort of like slowing down? You know? It gets that kind of eeriness right. Even aside from just like the big shocks and scares and stuff, just just the oddness of it. It's true. But and then Kirstie Alley shows up and introduces herself as Dr. Susan Verner, like Turner with a V, like Turner with a V.

Like you couldn't just say like that, like Dr. Susan Verner, you know, like the soda. Turner with a V, I think, is the most complicated way to introduce that last name. She's so weird in this. I mean, she's. I know. Right. We talked about her a little bit. We do.

It's a very, very atonal performance. She is quite bad in this movie. Emmy streak or no. It is not good work from Kirstie Alley. I was wondering, I mean, you you know and i don't really like picking on people because of their religion at all but i do think it's interesting that kirstie alley is like what a level seven she's high up there yeah in scientology and she is playing kind of a fauci-esque figure in this movie it does feel like she's channeling a little bit of

her aggression towards smarty pants government people who think they can tell you what to do. Yeah. Scientists who know what's up. I mean, she's like playing this movie like she's Agent Hobbs. Like she's like simultaneously doing like fucking like Tommy Lee Jones and the Fugitive and doing like his girl Friday. Right. And she's not doing either one well no and i don't think carpenter's helping her he's like okay sure why don't we shoot you in an all

black room for some reason right like let's just do that too like let's just have this film turned into a noir for some scene like here it's gonna be like a tv movie with a pumpkin patch in the opening scenes and like a film noir for three minutes later on sometimes it feels like she's playing like brassy screwball lady and other times it feels like she's eating playing like a government agent who literally eats nails yeah i mean i kind of want to switch the costumes between like her and the the virgin girl who gets pregnant because like christy ellie shows up meredith salinger yeah yeah meredith salinger because like christy ellie shows up wearing like all black for just sort of no reason.

But meanwhile, then you have this like really goth girl who seems like goth in mentality. You know, she's like been forced to have this alien baby. She was a virgin. All things are like breaking loose. She has a more interesting arc, I would say. Yeah. Not heavily explored. But she just shows up and she's wearing like buttery yellows and then she immediately kills herself and i think that character could have been really cool

yeah especially because every single thing about this character is the shit you couldn't do in 1960 like this is all untouched you know it's like here's a character who is only defined by the subjects we could not discuss when the last movie was made. Yes, but then they don't actually do much with that. No, she's just fucking haunted and the kid kind of fucks with her. She does offer the kid booze. That was an interesting choice. Yeah, that was great.

Yeah. Yeah, I wanted more of that. Yeah, I wanted to see maybe the kid get a little drunk and then laying up. Yeah, that'd be good. One of the damned kids gets drunk and then lighten up. Yeah, that'd be good. One of the damned kids gets drunk and then, you know, whatever. Uses his powers to do tricks

and shit, you know what I mean? Juggles with his head. I don't know. I mean, do none of the parents ever realize the thing with the glowing eyes? Do they ever just be like, why don't we wear sunglasses? Why don't we not look at them like but this is the whole thing why are they not all just throwing these kids off a cliff i guess

it's because the kids can like you know uh control their minds or whatever but you know still like no one's just like hey i noticed that 10 of the kids at school uh are complete freak shows so is anyone does anyone want to deal with this like they just kind of let it happen for a while and then they're like you know what there's been too many creepy suicides in midwitch maybe like you know someone should actually start dealing with this but like this is i mean me i've been fucking doing unformed versions of this rant in multiple episodes this series but like you know uh subtlety being overrated and realism and being more interested in things where you can sort of like deal with a more elastic tone you know but you get away with it when you clearly are able to project to the

audience that you have a consistent sense of what the rules of this universe are. And like in the original film, largely because they cannot show pregnancies and deliveries and things like that, you have these sort of time jumps and then you just end up in a state where it's like the kids are like this now and everyone is sort of freaked out by the kids. And the whole movie is at such a specific pitch and wavelength that you just go like, I accept that these are the rules of how this universe operates, right?

Like I will buy into weird movie logic as long as you convey it to me with a sense of integrity and specificity of like, this is what we do or don't talk about, right? And this is a movie that just never gets over the hump of why isn't everyone freaking out about this all the time? You know, like, why aren't they constantly screaming? Yeah, or why aren't they at least just putting a bag over the kids' heads

if it's like the eyes are the problem? Like, do they sleep? And if so, it seems like you could solve this. And also, it seems like they figure out pretty quickly that the kids can read your mind and then they do absolutely nothing with that the brick wall thing is so bizarre well that's in the original i guess they just wanted to do it again right it's just so poorly i feel like it is realized in this one visually yeah i mean it looks like he's doing stand up Well especially because I almost did a brick wall background

And then I realized it would just look Wait if that happened that's amazing God that's funny That's really funny What is the deal with empathy Right but like He could think of like worse stuff Like I always have songs running through my head

That are so annoying Like if the kids can read your mind Why aren't they just thinking about the most annoying Like dun dun dun dun dun dun Yeah just drive the kids crazy Just do fucking moves like Jagger in your head Until they run off a cliff I feel like in the original

When he does the brick wall you're like Oh this is like an inventive way for a Cheapo horror movie from you know 60 years ago to to sort of this is this must be from the book and it's interesting right and this just kind of feels like they were like what should he what did he do last time brick wall that's fine well uh it's easy to shoot a brick wall i'll point a camera at it and and the shots of the brick wall are like this is this is the fucking money shot as if it's like the nightmare imagery from the end of Prince of Darkness or whatever. And you're like, like, there's a weird and not a screensaver.

Yeah. And also, like, if they know that they can read their minds. Have you not? Did you notice that twice? Kirstie Alley goes up to Christopher Reeve right before he has to be around the kids and tells him a dark secret that the kids can't know. She is like, you're about to go into, like like the shark's den of kids who can read your mind this is a perfect time to tell you that the government has been blowing up all of the other children don't let them find that out in your head what but keep that at the back of your brain though keep that you know put that on a back burner maybe baby. It's so bizarre. Whatever. It's not a very good movie.

No. I mean, we're coming at this from a lot of angles, but that's how to diagnose it. Yes, Amy. What? I just have to say one last thing. Of course. When the villagers finally get mad at the end and finally go crazy, like right after Hamill is forced to commit suicide and his wife starts screaming,

all of the villagers finally decide to do something about this, and they are straight up out there in the street holding flaming torches. Like, this is a Frankenstein movie. Like, where did they even get the torches? This is just one of those things where I'm like, did Carpenter not, he was like, making a schlocky movie, don't even bother

giving them flashlights or whatever people would have in the 90s. They're all going to go to the hardware store and get flaming torches for this scene. Yeah, they went to the torch store. They went to the local mob store. Yeah. It just felt like the final kind of like,

fuck you. I will not think about updating this in the slightest. There is nothing I will do to bring this movie into the 90s except for Linda's ponytail. She has a really great 80s ponytail, 80s, 90s ponytail, and we're done here. I didn't see pitchforks.

Could have done with more pitchforks. He was saving those for the sequel. He updated it in that way. He's like, who uses pitchforks anymore? Just dust torches. That's true. Although this town could use a pitchfork. I mean, there is a lot of hay barrels.

Yeah, maybe they could move some hay around just sort of keep themselves occupied. Here's the thing I want to read. I don't know. Why not? On set, here's from our dossier. Thank you to our researchers. On set, Hamill and Allie kept things loose,

breaking into Bela Lugosi impressions between takes Ed Wood had just been released. Hamill, we couldn't stop talking like Bela Lugosi. It's spelled phonetically

like that. We filmed one scene where I came to Christy and say, where did you take the baby? And I couldn't help myself. I said, where did you take the baby and i couldn't help myself i said where did you take the baby and she bounced right back practically shouting now i took it to the pathology lab

kind of wish uh hamill had just done that for the whole movie right yeah he should just leaned into that this needs like a gonzo performance like it needs someone doing like a fucking jeffrey combs and when you were excited about uh the the crazy guy that you started the episode off with just because he's got a little juice uh what's his name the flower guy right but he's got like one fucking scene like you got hamill is like crazy raving preacher with a bizarre accent george buck flower that's his name he's in like a million things oh good name yeah yeah um yeah well you know sure i'm sure i'm glad they had a good time i hope everyone was well paid yeah it's kind of one of those movies where you start kind of just grasping it like look i hope the catering was good right like you know like maybe they they saw a good movie one night they all like the whole crew

got together and like went into town and saw whatever was out. Maybe the days were short. They actually gave crew proper turnaround. Yeah, exactly. Carpenter just sort of didn't. What do you want to say, Ben? Maybe the kids still get together every year. Have an annual hang.

Catch up. Do you think Carpenter let anybody into his house if they're basically shooting his backyard do you think he had anyone over for dinner or was he like

no my castle's my castle yeah it's a fair point I don't I don't know if I would certainly want to go that feels like

Carson inviting you over to the couch right one night Carpenter's like hey I'll make you dinner come to one two three

Carpenter there's a quote here I mean Hamill met Carpenter's like, hey, I'll make you dinner. Come to 123 Carpenter. There's a quote here. I mean, Hamill met Carpenter at a Halloween party that Carpenter had at his house in the early 90s. And he said, I was struck by how easygoing he was. His house is covered in lobby cards. He grew up reading Castle of Frankenstein, famous sponsors of Filmland.

And I realized we were cut from exactly the same cloth. We spent half an hour talking about Creature from the Black Lagoon. I mean, that's cool that Carpenter's house is all fucking monster movie memorabilia and shit. And also, like, the idea of those two having a, you know, a nerdy chat is also, it's

just kind of tickling, like, as much as we sort of worship these sort of nerd heroes now, like, you know, they both seem like pretty good guys carpenter and hamill i mean hamill is such a notorious dork like the the one of the things about him is that he apparently i don't know at what point it ended but i believe for at least the original run of david letterman doing uh late night pre-moving to cbs he had like every episode recorded on vhs and he still might like he was a guy who would like record it every single night and this is after star wars had come out after he had done the trilogy he's just like setting his vcr to record letterman so he can rewatch episodes and shit. He has obviously been

our number one dream guest on the George Lucas talk show forever. Of course. And our whole bit was always, if we ever get Hamill, we will not bring up Star Wars once. That will be the bit. We will ask him about anything and everything else. He can dictate

the conversation, but we will agree that Star Wars will not be discussed once, and we will not discuss the, but we will agree that Star Wars will not be discussed once and we will not discuss the fact that we're not discussing Star Wars. Right? Do you think he'll want to talk Village of the Damned? Well, can I tell you what our pitch...

Can I tell you what our pitch has been? Okay. And I don't know if it's ever gotten to him directly. I'm saying this on air because I want fucking people to tweet at him and see if we can get his attention

with this. I don't know if this... You're trying to mind control the listener? That's my hope. I don't know if this ever got to him directly or it's just like his fucking publicist or manager like shutting us down. Our whole thing is can we

do a live stream called Hamil Barbera where we let Mark Hamill curate a playlist of his favorite Hanna-Barbera cartoons and we just watch them and talk about that. I think that's lovely. Is the idea behind that

just the pun or is he a acknowledged Hanna-Barbera fan? I think he is an acknowledged Hanna-Barbera fan. The pun is good. And also, I believe maybe his first credit ever, if not, it was one of his earliest, was he was in Genie,

which was the I Dream of Genie cartoon show spinoff that was her as a teen. And he played the teen boy who discovers Genie and has some other Hanna-Barbera credits as well. So at first we were like, what if we do, we watch every episode of Genie. We're talking about Genie. And we have him on the whole time. We only talk about Genie. We never talk about Star Wars. first we were like, what if we do, we watch every episode of Genie and we have him on

the whole time. We only talk about Genie. We never talk about Star Wars. And we're like, what if we do all of his Hanna-Barbera stuff? And then it became, what if we just let him pick? But it has to be about Hanna-Barbera. We call it Hamill-Barbera and we raise money for charity. I mean, that sounds good. I would watch. I'd tune in.

Who came up with that pun? Was that you? I think it was me. I think it was me. I think it was me. I mean, the idea beyond that, which I believe Connor Ratliff came up with, was if we could book Mark Hamill, what's her name, Shannon Purser and Michael Cera

in the same episode, and we do Hamill, Barb, Cera. Okay, box office game. Let's play the box office game, which might be interesting. April 28th, 1995. David was just turned nine years old. Humbleberry.

That's me, not David from the movie. Number one at the box office. Well, first, Village of the Damned opened number five. Three million dollars. It made eight. So, you know the Damned opened number five. Three million dollars. It made eight. So, you know, eight is not very good. It cost 20. But number one at the box office is an, I would say, underrated rom-com.

One of those rom-coms that has like an objectively creepy premise, but the star kind of just carries it off. From 1995. Kind of the, she had been in a couple action movies, But the star kind of just carries it off. From 1995. 1995. Kind of the... She had been in a couple action movies which had launched her career. But this is her rom-com launch, I think. This is her first big rom-com.

And then does she have a bit of a rom-com run after that? Absolutely. She's a rom-com legend. She's a rom-com legend. Huh. This is its second week at number one. It's doing great. Second week at number one.

It's 1995. It has a creepy premise, but the stars make it sing. She had mostly done action movies. You know what? The male lead is pretty cute in this. Okay, but she's the one who's really pulling it off. Do you have any inclination Amy? I mean I'm pretty sure I know

the actresses but I don't know what the film is. Who's the actress? Oh Sandra Bullock. Yes. Oh it's While You Were Sleeping? It's While You Were Sleeping John Turtle Tubbs masterpiece. of sort of like passive stalking or whatever it is. I mean I've said this so many times on the podcast,

but when people say like any movie like that where they're like, the premise is actually pretty fucked up when you think about it. And I'm like, yes. And that is a compliment to the movie that while you're watching it, you don't think about it.

If you don't think about how fucked up the premise is when you're watching it because the stars are charming, then the movie is doing something right. Sandra Bullock, Bill Pullman, Peter Gallagher as the guy she had a crush on who's in a coma. And I'm looking at the billing here with

Peter Gallagher's left eyebrow and Peter Gallagher's right eyebrow. Such rich, rich, bushy brows. Got the width and the end. I deserved. Yeah, Peter Boyle plays a character called Ox. It's a late Jack Warden film

it's a great movie and by great I mean you know pretty watchable number two is a cult classic Griffin that had sequels it's sort of a kind of a masterpiece kind of a great

well kind of I mean is it no but like it's kind of a great film it's kind of a canonical film of the 90s okay it had theatrical comedy it's sort of a buddy hangout comedy it's very sort of low plot movie it's had two sequels made i think that were both theatrical yes but only one of the stars coming back oh oh oh oh i wish you hadn't given me the extra hint because i got there it's friday it's friday kind of you know a huge movie i think it's been canonized amy that is a movie you could cover on unspooled and it wouldn't feel absurd to be discussing whether or not it belongs in a canon no and in fact that's a great idea that's right

it's one of those exactly It's one of those. It's one of those kind of movies on spool covers in its way of like, yes, this would never be on the AFI list, I guess. Yeah. With those movies, I always compare it to like,

well, Shane made it on. So all bets. Poor Shane. Shane really does stink though. Fucking Shane. He's so boring. Shane.

Shane. F. Gary Grace. First film. boring. Shane. Shane. F. Gary Gray's first film. Griffin. Yeah. Wild. Wild. And he follows it up with set it off and then the negotiator. And the thing that's just always so wild to me is that Ice Cube wrote that.

Yeah. With DJ Pooh. It's not like I forget it. But every time I think about it, I go like, wow. Bye, Felicia. Isn't there a scene of him writing that in Straight Outta Compton? Yeah and he's like oh man this script is funny.

It's literally like you see the computer screen says like Friday buy Ice Cube and then the camera tilts over and his wife goes like what are you doing? He's like writing this screenplay. I think people are gonna laugh a lot. He's like giggling. It'd be funny if he was literally writing bye felicia like you see him type it out uh anyway uh friday okay number three at the box office griffin it's a

uh major action hit bit of a surprise hit another debut film from a canonical filmmaker uh it has had three sequels no two sequels but the third is on the way so it's had a two and a three uh but the three was recent so long delay three was recent three and now four is coming i think four is being made because three was such a huge hit um two major stars such a huge hit uh kind of a career launcher for both of them like one of them is one of them is more famous than the other but the other one's about to be way more famous than the first after this you're saying i would say i mean you know what maybe he's already more famous they're both sitcom stars they're in an action movie okay uh and and one of them's about

to be you know one of hollywood's biggest stars one of hollywood's biggest is it bad boys it's bad boys because griff i mean is martin lawrence obviously famously martin lawrence's build above will smith and bad boys is he more famous though but yeah at that point fresh prince is a big deal but martin is sort of martin is a slightly bigger brand right yeah yeah yeah yeah um but anyway bad boys a movie uh of course written for john lovitz and dana carvey the baddest boys it's just what they hosted the mt movie awards together or they did like a fucking parody skit on the show or whatever. And Hollywood was like, we've got to fucking bottle this.

These guys not playing characters using their default personas need to have an action comedy built around them. And they write this whole script. And then they were like, Jesus Christ, Lovitz is such a pain in the ass. This is fucking worth it. What if we just get two people who aren't going to drive us crazy? Like, that was actually the evolution of the thing, was they designed it for them. Carvey was kind of, like, getting, you know,

increasingly reluctant about being a star. And they were like, Lovitz is so fucking high maintenance. What if we get two guys who are actually going to want to work and show up and do their days? Well, they picked well, I guess. Do you think Lovitz ever regrets it in the middle of the night? I mean, imagine

a Bad Boys with Lovitz and Carvey where they made a third one this year. They're back! I can't imagine either one of them running. It's tough to imagine either one of them walking faster than a jog

yeah they're at the mall maybe catching up to like shoplifting speedwalkers what's also funny because it's like they were both in trapped in paradise right which is written directed by george gallo who then wrote the original draft of bad boys for them like that was the idea they play like fucking

goofus and gallant in Trapped in Paradise. Like, there's no part of you that goes like, put these guys in leather jackets, give them sidearms, and have them run. And then if you try to imagine,

like, they would have been in the Gallo version of the movie, but imagining them in a Bay version of the movie is, it's a really fun mind game. And then we never get the giant Will Smith because he doesn't do Independence Day yeah oh wait no

is that Roland Emmerich I always get them confused in the night it is Roland Emmerich but still maybe he doesn't get it because no bad boys I don't right he doesn't get Independence Day if he's not in bad boys and if Independence Day doesn't start Will Smith I think it doesn't work maybe not look look is this a better world we don't know

I don't know it might be Number four at the box office Is a rip snorting Costume drama Sort of a War Movie set up in Scotland Bonnie Scotland

In the 18th century Braveheart it is Braveheart It's Rob Roy, Griffin. You were right the first time. You were right. Because they're the same year, right? They are the same year. It speaks to how, you know,

people had a real hard-on for Scottish warriors right then. Braveheart comes out a month later. A month later. Wow. And yeah, Rob Roy was like, that was the odds-on favorite. Wow. And yeah, Rob Roy was like, that was the odds on favorite.

Sure. Braveheart was seen as a folly, I think. And Rob Roy outgrossed Braveheart. No. It didn't outgross Braveheart because it didn't do that well. What you are implying I think is that Braveheart didn't actually do

amazing. It didn't. I know it. It did okay. You know. Right. Rob Roy made $30 million at the box office, and Braveheart made $75 million. Worldwide or domestic? Domestic. But, you know, maybe that was partly a re-release situation after the Oscars or something.

I don't know. I was going to say, I think it also played for like a full year. Like, it wins Best Picture a year later. But like, it did not do great when it came out. Yeah. Right. I mean, I don't know. Do you like Rob Roy? Have you ever seen Rob Roy, Amy? Never seen Rob Roy. Anyone ever seen Rob Roy? I've seen both

of those in my living room. My mom was like really into Scottish folk dancing. So I know that those were both rented from Blockbuster. And I know that she took great issue with the historical inaccuracies in both. Yes. Braveheart is wildly inaccurate. I do not remember if Rob Roy is inaccurate.

I do remember that Tim Roth is the villain and he was Oscar nominated and he has a great sword fight with Liam Neeson at the end. That's all I really remember. Jessica Lange is the love interest. I remember my family had a Gateway computer. We probably bought it like a year or two after this. Cow prints. Humble brag. Absolutely.

And it had preloaded onto it like three QuickTime videos. And one of them was the Rob Roy trailer. I think it was like to show you, look at how amazing this video. The majesty of Scotland can be contained in this Gateway. The Rob Roy trailer, the Buddy Holly music video. And I can Scotland can be contained in this gateway. The Rob Roy trailer, the Buddy Holly music video, and I can't remember what the third was. But I remember being like,

well, I'll watch this Buddy Holly music video 8,000 times. I'll never watch the Rob Roy trailer again. By Buddy Holly, you mean the Weezer song, right? The Weezer Buddy Holly music video? Yes. Yes. It was the Weezer.

Griff, I also had that. I bought some Windows computer that had the Weezer song on it. It was a Windows thing. It wasn't a Gateway thing. I don't know why that was picked as the thing, but it was. Some other, of course,

number five is Village of the Damned. Some other movies at the top of the box office, Griffin. A Goofy movie, number six. Now, the most canon the box office Griffin. A goofy movie. Number six. Yeah, I mean now fucking the most canonized film in America.

Right. Kids act like it's a Citizen Kane level masterpiece. I remember it being okay. Kiss of Death. I think it's good. But yeah, it's reputation is odd. Kiss of Death is odd. The Barbet Schroeder. Yeah, Cage, Caruso, Sam Jackson. Never seen. Yeah. You've never seen, Sam Jackson. Never seen. Yeah.

You've never seen that? No. That's a pretty good movie with a really interesting Cage performance. Caruso's maybe the weak link of it. This is Caruso's bad leading man phase. Yeah. Don Juan DeMarco, the sort of Johnny Depp breakout movie

with Marlon Brando and Faye Dunaway. What if people wanted to fuck johnny dove that was the what if in that movie uh you've got circle of friends one of those movies when i was a kid where i was like is this like the most boring movie ever made it's just the posters just chris o'donnell and minnie driver like holding hands do you remember that no does anyone know what i'm talking about okay and then the other movie, Top Dog A Chuck Norris buddy movie With a dog Nice

Has anyone ever heard of this? No, but I'm interested I'm gonna read you the tagline The poster is Chuck Norris has a gun And then there's a dog wearing a police hat And the poster's tagline is One's tough, one's smart. I guess the implication being like Chuck Norris is fucking dumb.

But don't worry, this dog will handle the brain side of the police work. It was Chuck Norris' last theatrical film. It's directed by his brother, Aaron Norris. And the Wikipedia here says the film received mainly negative reviews and its box office was negatively impacted by the timing of its release only nine days after the Oklahoma City bombing.

I don't know if that's why Dog Bombed. I just want to say. I don't think you can lay the blame. That's a very convenient excuse. I'm going to go on a limb and say that the Dog Bombed the Oklahoma City building just so they'd have a reason why his big starring role flopped.

Like, you can't... What I'm going to say to Chuck Norris' top dog and he's like, yeah, well, I mean that thing would have crushed if it wasn't for the damn Oklahoma City bombing. Because the film's plot deals with terrorism, the poor timing of the film's release was noted in multiple reviews and articles. Once again,

I think that's an easy passing of the law. Here's the other thing, people. Here's also on the Wikipedia, the film was criticized for being too similar to K-9 and Turner and Hooch.

Yes. It sure sounds like Chuck Norris was like, I should just do one of those. Yet, six years later, K-9 and Turner and Hooch both come out in 89.

89, right. He waited six years. 95, he called up his brother in the middle of the night and went and Hooch both come out in 89. He waited six years, 95. He called up his brother in the middle of the night and went, we have to do the dog movie. Now. I mean, listen, I went to college in Oklahoma and I never heard anybody once say that they were traumatized by the too soon release of Top Dog.

I went to the theater and man, I just couldn't deal with that movie. All the tears. How dare he? How dare he? I just couldn't deal with that movie. All the terrorists. How dare he? How dare he? I don't know. I am reading. I will say I'm reading the plot description of this movie.

It does sound like it's very intense. It's about white nationalists, neo-Nazis, Aryan nations, church of the creator. I don't know. I hope Chuck and the dog get that taken care of. As the neo-Nazi hitmen are practicing for their attack,

the leaders are revealed to not be just one white supremacist group, but an alliance of several, including the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations, and the Church of the Kree. This movie's about a Voltron of fucking fascists who only can be stopped by the top dog. What kind of dog are we talking? Is it like a German Shepherd?

No, he looks like a kind of shaggy dog. I don't know. Really? He's a shaggy dog. Yeah, what kind of dog is he? It's a mutt. We're trusting a mutt with this. Or is a mutt exactly the thing that the Aryan Nation would get mad at?

Like a German Shepherd would be embraced by the Aryan Nation. All I'm going to say is that Reno attacks the neo-Nazi leader. Like, so, you know. What? That dog doesn't look scary at all. He doesn't. That dog looks like Chewbacca. No, but he's funny looking. Oh, come on.

He's got like a beard almost looking kind of like fur. Its hair is too long. The whole hook here. I mean, that dog can't see. There's like hair in its face. You're like, cut your hair is too long. The whole hook here. I mean, that dog can't see. There's like hair in its face. You're like, you're like, cut your hair, hippie.

You're in the LAPD for crying out loud. I just, I'm looking at the voodoo bio, like summary, plot summary, okay? Because I, this wording,

Maverick cop Jake Wilder, Chuck Norris, is convinced his career has gone to the dogs when he meets his new partner, a mischievous, high IQ canine named Reno. So it's not just like a joke about him being dumb.

The idea is that this dog is supposed to be especially intelligent. This is a high IQ dog. And then are you ready for just the quickest fucking like pin turn of all time? His career has gone to the dogs when he meets his new partner

mischievous high iq canine named reno but when a brutal white supremacist plot is uncovered no you cannot you cannot what he's gonna deal with it he's gonna take care of it the rubber you just burned on the road doing that fucking u-turn one's tough one's smart but when a brutal white supremacist i mean i will say i just found uh reno on the imdb page which took a little bit of time i was like wondering who the dog was who played reno and it was listed under uncredited uh but reno is actually named betty oh and uh betty had one other starring role in the Dennis the Menace movie two years earlier. Good movie. Oh, my gosh.

Nick Castle. Hello. Bringing it all around. Nick Castle, who plays on Halloween, who plays. Yeah. Who plays Michael Myers in the original Halloween directed the Dennis the Menace movie. So we're bringing this all full back, full circle. Which is what Ben wishes this film had been

yes absolutely right these kids are menaces yeah I also just sent a picture of the dog in disguise as a lady with the fruit hat oh okay that's the photo I was responding to I was confused by that thank you

there you go thank you let's just say conclusively, and I believe this has been discussed before, Nick Castle's Dennis the Menace is scarier than John Carpenter's Village of the Damned. I mean, Christopher Lloyd alone.

Christopher Lloyd alone. There's nothing in this movie that is spookier than Christopher Lloyd. That's a reboot. That's a fucking reboot right there. But just about that character. So what you're saying is you want to swap

directors and see John Carpenter's Dennis the Menace and Nick Castle's Village of the Damned. Correct. I think that's what I want to see. Amy, you roll. I'm sorry it took five years to get you back on the show. We'll have you on again sooner. I can't wait.

2026, baby, I'll be here. No, sooner. Two. All right. Well, make sure the movie is as intellectually complicated and sophisticated as this one, please. Look, you got memento last time. You got a big one last time. I know.

Yeah. No, no. You'll do. You'll do. I have some good ones. I don't know if I want to got a big one last time. I know. Yeah. No, no. You'll do. You'll do. I have some good ones. They'll do. I don't know if I want to do a good one. This has been great.

Well, maybe we'll give you a real stick. All I do is talk about good movies. I'm like the inverse of Paul. Let me talk about these. So let's let's confirm then. Amy Nicholson will be our guest on Top Dog as part of our series coming 2036. If you do a series on movies with dogs, which actually is an idea that now we

should do for Unspooled. Yes, I commit. Fantastic. And people should listen to Unspooled. They can. Obviously. Not they can, they should. They must. They must. And thank you all

for listening to this show please remember to rate, review, and subscribe thank you to Marie Barty for our social media Lane Montgomery, great American novel for our theme song extremely loud and incredibly online their new album is out wherever you get albums

JJ Birch, Nick Loriano for our research Alex Barron and AJ nick gloriano for our research alex barron and asian mckeon for our editing joe bowen pat rounds for our artwork go to blankies.red.com for some real nerdy shit and you can go to patreon.com slash blank check where now i believe officially santa claus has come to town right or? Or is about to? I should have this loaded up. About, no, we still got a couple of weeks

until Santa Claus comes to town. Okay, so Santa Claus will be coming to town at the end of November. Of course, we're talking Tim Claus' Santa Claus trilogy. Tim Allen's, not Tim Claus. But in a few days, we have an episode coming out. And it's... Do we know if it was the Scorpion King or if it was Body Bags?

What's the final result? Should we look at the final result here? Well, the problem here, Griffin, is... And I can go look. But, like, Scorpion King seemed to be winning. But everyone in the comments was like, Why is Scorpion King winning? Fuck Scorpion King.

Yeah, Scorpion King won? Fuck Scorpion King. Yeah, Scorpion King won by a healthy 58 to 42 margin, but maybe we just do body bags anyway. I don't know. Maybe we disregard it. I don't know. We'll see what happens. I don't know.

Something's coming out in the 11th. Something's going to happen. Tune in for that. Maybe we do Top Dog now for this one. Maybe we do Top Dog. Yeah, maybe we do Top Dog. Were there any Top Dog sequels? No, Griffin. There were not. There are three K do Top Dog. Were there any Top Dog sequels? No, Griffin. There were not.

There are three K-9 movies. We could do K-9. Yeah, let's do K-9. K-9-1-1? I don't know. Well, that was the episode. Tune in next week on this feed, of course, for Escape from L.A.

Plissken's back, baby! And, as always, Kiersey Alley should have had a monkey lighting her cigars. Yes, her big giant cigars.