Blank Check with Griffin & David - War of the Worlds with J.D. Amato

Episode Date: April 3, 2017

J.D. Amato (My Brother, My Brother and Me) makes his third appearance on Blank Check, this week discussing 2005’s sci-fi doomsday The War of the Worlds. Why would this film mark the conclusion of the Cruise and Spielberg partnership? How much of tangent does Griffin go off on while discussing McG? Are we to be convinced Tom Cruise is a blue collar guy? Together, Griffin, David and J.D. delve into Dakota Fannings’ preciousness, the movie Mystery Men, the history of the actress who jumped onto the villain and with their legs snaps his neck and more. Plus, J.D. reaches out from the future and Producer Ben records ADR.

No one would have believed in the early years of the 21st century that our world was being watched by intelligences greater than our own. That as men busied themselves about their various concerns, they observed and studied the way a man with a microscope might scrutinize the creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency, men went to and fro about the globe, confident of our empire over this world. Yet across the gulf of space, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic regarded our planet with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their podcasts against us. Hi. I'm Morgan Freeman. I'm David Simms. And I'm Morgan Freeman I'm David Sim

and I'm Griffin Newman welcome to Blank Check with Griffin and David I think the through line of this mini series is me doing a consistently horrible impressions of people that everyone can impersonate who have we done right now? We've done Walken

and I'm not sure of that who have you swung and missed on? Walken? I think there's one other big one that I missed on and I can't remember now because we're recording all these out of order. We're also recording like 17 episodes a day. Yes, we are. 17 a day. Yeah. We're sucking up movies

as red goo and then we're spraying them out everywhere. Yeah, and then we become gray dusty tentacles that evaporate into the wind. What podcast is this that we're recording so much of that's sucking us dry? Why, it's Blank Check

with Griffin and David. True. We are hashtag the two friends. Yes, we are. Two friends who host a podcast together. What's that podcast about? Well, it's about filmographies.

It's about directors who have massive success early on, and Hollywood gives them a blank check to make their own crazy projects. All true. Based on their own whims. They get a series of get-out-of-jail free cards. And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce, baby. Is that Morgan coming back?

I don't know. I can't decide. Okay. We're talking about Stevie Spielberg. Little Stevie Spielberg. That nice kid from down the street. In the DreamWorks era.

Mm-hmm. He's won two Oscars. He owns his own studio. He can do whatever the fuck he wants. Yes. This main series is called Pod Me If You Cast.

And we are up to his first of two 2005 pictures. Yes. In his third triptych, like sort of in his third, two and threes, three and twos even. Yes, David's three and twos theory. Yeah, my three and two theory. It's, you know, he made three movies in two years over and over and over. Then he takes a break, and then he'll make another da-da-da. Yep.

A break, da-da-da. Yep. That's his rhythm. That's his drumbeat. Is he rushing or dragging? You'll have to ask jk simmons to find out he's not in this movie no he's our guest next week on our munich episode now now now now brown cap uh this uh movie we're talking about today is war of the worlds war of the worlds and 2005 yeah that's the theme the famous lord world's theme um and uh 2005 sci-fi uh disaster movie i'd say i'd say

it's a survival horror film a little bit it with within the sci-fi but it's it's it's a disaster movie though yes it has all the hallmarks of the disaster film yes rather than an alien invasion movie that's usually more of an action film or a triumph film yeah this is a disaster movie this is things falling apart yes um with us today is a very special guest. He is now throwing his hat into the rapidly

competitive arms race to join the Five Timers Club on our show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is your third stop by? This is my third

stop by in this. I was on the way here I was trying to figure out if it was my third or it feels like it's more but that's because I think we've done other projects together

sure but no it's the third this is the third Speed Racer Clone Wars yes or no Attack of the Clones

Digital Filmmaking and now this I think you're one of four people who have done three episodes now is that right so it's like the question of who's going to hit five first.

I mean, I'm going to do it for, number one, we're going to jump into Legend. We're just going to do the Legend episode at some point. You know, we did talk about Legend way back on the day in the Attack of the Podcast. And we're going to do Toys for sure. Yes. And right now, by saying it aloud, I've inserted myself into both of those. That movie's insane. Pods?

Oh, my God. I want to talk all day about Toys. I'd love to talk about Toys. I weirdly taped that movie off of TV when I was a kid, so I watched a bunch of weird movies to watch a bunch when I was a kid. It's a great movie. It's a weird movie. It is the ultimate blank check.

David, David, take that back. No. I refuse to take that back. It's a fascinating movie. Our guest today is J.D. Amato. Hey, guys. Somebody stop me. This guy.

Jim Carrey had been in this movie. That's my impression of Jim Carrey. There's a reason. He's our James Carrey. He is. Our resident James Carrey, J.D. Amato. James Carrey's kind of a lanky guy, right? He's sort of a.

Yeah, you have similar builds. Yeah, and I pull faces that you guys at home can't hear. Yeah. But right now I'm doing a really good Richard Nixon face. The voice I don't have yet, but look at this. JD, much like the first incarnation of Batman villain Clayface, is literally molding his face into a perfect sculpture of Richard Nixon. How did Batman ever beat Clayface?

He has made of clay. Do you know that, though, the first version of Clayface isn't like a big clay mound? He's just a dude in a suit who's an actor and he's like, hold on, let me work on this. He's like Spider-Man's chameleon. Yeah, except he has to literally sculpt his face. Hey, man.

How did Batman beat anyone, though, is really the question here. That's a fair point. Well, he's the world's greatest detective. Really? Because it seems like he's the world's greatest ninja with otherworldly gadgets. He calls himself the world's greatest detective. What? Really? Because it seems like he's the world's greatest ninja with otherworldly gadgets. He calls himself the

world's greatest detective. Yeah, and let's remember that ninjas are nature's detectives. Not nature's pet detectives. When nature calls, like Jim Carrey

bringing it all back. Gotham City, do not go in there. Thank you. This has been our episode on War of the Worlds. Jim Carrey could be an interesting Batman. Oh, my gosh. He was the Riddler, of course.

He'd be a better Batman, I think, than he was. That's some dream casting. Yeah. He'd be an interesting Batman because he's a maniac. Okay, Jim Carrey as Batman. Jacob Tremblay as the butler. Alfred? Alfred. Alfred.

Sure. I don't know why Jacob. You guys got some hard on for Jacob Tremblay. So let's get this out of the way. Okay? Okay. Oh, yeah. This has to.

Yeah. The third wheel of our tricycle. Uh-huh. Producer Ben. Oh, sure. A.K. The Ben Ducer. A.K.

The Poet Laureate. A.K. The Haas. A.K. Mr. Hoss sure. A.K.A. Purdue Ben. A.K.A. The Ben Ducer. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate. A.K.A. The Haas. A.K.A. Mr. Haasitive. We're looking at Twitter. A.K.A. The Fart Detective.

A.K.A. The Meat Lover. A.K.A. The Poet Laureate. Did I say that already? A.K.A. The Peeper. A.K.A.

Our Finest Film Critic. A.K.A. Birthday Benny. A.K.A. The Tiebreaker. A.K.A. Dirt Bike Benny. A.K.A.

Soaking Wet Benny. He's graduated to certain tells over the course of different miniseries, such as Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben I. Chomelon, Ben Say Benny Thing, and Ailey Benz with a dollar sign at the end of it, is not here today. He's not. Bye-bye Benny. He's sick. The bye-bye man.

He's deathly ill. He is quite ill. You guys might have heard four or so months ago his appearance on the Star Wars Episode 2 best of, the Attack on the Podcast best of, which he sounded like death was taking him. Narratively, that was 10 episodes ago. If not more. But this was two days before we're recording right now.

He's in death's grip right now. And so we have Intern Will with us here today, man in the ones and zeros. Hey, guys. Now, intern Will, what he's going to do is in post, he's going to hand this file to Ben, right? This is JD's random idea that we're running with. It's a great idea, though. When Ben is better, he will be given the file, and then Ben is going to ADR everything Will says in his own voice over it. So Will, you don't have to do this work,

but Ben, as we've trusted you before to do edits... What a bunch of shit work we're handing Benny. Wait, wait, here. Let's do this real quick as well, too. It's like, for example, listener, right now, in our headphones, you're about to hear... We're about to hear intern, podcast

intern Will. But you're going to hear producer Ben saying the same things that Will says to us right now. Hey, Will, say something crazy. But Will, tell us a little bit about yourself, your actual life. Yeah, please say, give us like a little synopsis of your life and Ben will re-record it in his voice. Or maybe he won't. Let's be clear. Yeah, guys. So I'm 26.

I'm from San Francisco. Cool place. Yeah. I studied psychology in college. Okay. Whoa. I can speak French. Wow. Hey studied psychology in college. Okay. Whoa. I can speak French. Wow. Hey, why don't you do a little bit of that real quick?

Yeah, speak a little French. Yeah, I'll speak a little French. Okay. Bonjour. J. Matt the wheel. J'aime bien le public français. Hey. He likes to speak French. That's great. So hopefully Ben likes to speak French. Hopefully Ben likes to speak French.

You just heard a heavily congested Ben. Got that one out. Hopefully Ben will not be congested come March or whenever he has to release this. Also, eagle-eared listeners will realize that anytime I've been on the podcast, Ben has been very sick. It's true. So JD, Ben, they're like opposite extremes of something. Like they can't, you know, one can't be in balance with the other.

They say if we ever touch, the world will implode. I hope it doesn't. Well, how about the world that goes to war? Yes. In Steven Spielberg's 2005 sci-fi thriller, War of the Worlds. Bum, bum, bum. Correct. Okay.

Right. I was getting us on track. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember the development process of this movie being weird. It was like this. That's what the development process was like. I spent like an hour last night combing through variety pieces because I wanted to get the

timeline of this correct. Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure. Because it was odd. Now, Spielberg... Well, Spielberg and Cruise make Minority Report. Right. That's 2002. That comes out in 2002.

Okay. It's well-reviewed. Could have made more money, but generally, I think, well-regarded. And those boys loved working with each other. Had a good time. Now, Cruise goes and visits Spielberg on the set of Catch Me If You Can. Right? So the immediate film after Minority Report.

And goes, look, I'm really happy with that movie we made together. You have to presume this is maybe right around, right before Minority Report actually comes out, right? Makes sense. He's in production. And he goes, I'm really happy with that movie we made together. I want to do something else. Here are some things. Yes, it was during the filming of Catch Me If You Can.

Right. Sorry, yeah. He says, here are some things that I have the rights to. Right. He's got his company, Cruz Wagner. He's got Cruz Wagner. And he goes. He brings Speely three movies.

Three movies. I don't think we know what the other two were. Unfortunately not. I would love to know what the other two were. Me not. I would love to know what the other two were. Me too. I would love, like, you know, what was it like? It doesn't matter. Carry on.

And he goes, Spielberg, take your pick. Here are three cruise vehicles. I'm ready to make these. If you want any one, I give you creative freedom to make what you will of it. Right. And one of them was, he had bought the rights to War of the Worlds earlier. I think like year 2000. Yes.

Yes. They had it at Paramount. They hired a writer, and he said, I'd love to make a War of the Worlds movie, right? And so he throws out the script that they have and hires David Koepp to write it. No, first they hire J.J. Abrams, and he refuses or whatever.

He can't do it because of Lost. Yes, he's developing Lost. Which is too bad because I would love to see the J.J. Abrams script here. I would love to see the three of those guys make this movie. Now, Spielberg has a hard-on for J.J. Abrams. As does Tom Cruise. As does America.

Right. Well, America's at least about to. But here's some interesting timeline stuff, okay? So around this same time, J.J. Abrams is hired to write a Superman reboot. Yes. He writes a script that was covered by Anna Kool very controversially. Was it called? What was it called again?

I believe it was called Superman Flyby, which is a weird fucking title. Yes, that's right. And Mick G was supposed to direct it, and then he dropped out because they wanted to film it in Australia to save money, and Mick G is afraid of planes. What does Mick G do now? Makes planes. What does McG do now? Makes movies. What was his most recent? His most recent movie wasn't Three Days to Kill, right? That Costner action movie?

I think he did one after that. The Babysitter is coming up. Three Days to Kill was his most recent movie. Okay. Did you ever see? He does mostly TV now, though, right? He does a lot of TV. He should not be as successful

And continue to get the kind of projects that he does He's had a lot of chances He's had a lot of chances But we live in a society that enables this sort of behavior From white guys who call themselves McG And make movies like This Means War He made the most 90s thing The most 90s thing that exists

The Pretty Fly for a White Guy music video? No. Smash Mouth All-Star music video. Yes, right. Which is directed by Nick G. And stars clips and lookalikes of the Mystery Men. Right. Of course, because that song was initially

attached to Mystery Men. Everyone fucking thinks it's the Shrek song. It was a Mystery Men song. It was Mystery Men. Hey now, they were All-Stars. All-Star could have been nominated for an Oscar

for Best Original Song. Is that right? Or Mystery Men, I think. I was trying to do this research the other day because I re-watched Mystery Men like two weeks ago. What did you think of it?

I really like it. Here's the thing about Mystery Men. What a cast. Fantastic cast. Concept, whatever, but like the designs, a lot of the heroes are really good. A couple of the heroes are not so good, but a lot of them are really good. I. Concept, whatever. But, like, the designs, the hero, a lot of the heroes are really good. A couple of the heroes are not so good.

But a lot of them are really good. I like all the characters. I think I like all of them. Yeah. They should have had a better director. Like, it just lacks, like, a little bit of, like, the panache you want. Like, they hired some ad guy, right? Well, see, I would argue the opposite.

I'd argue he's throwing too much panache on it, but the wrong kind of panache. Yeah, right. It just has, the look is all off off and they hired pieces are not they hired a commercial director who came from the sensibility of like every single kinka usher it's the only movie he ever made and apparently on the set he went fuck this i'm going back to doing commercials um but he he directs it with the like over zealousness of a commercial director who's like i got 30 seconds to stick in your craw. So every shot is the most extreme shot it could be.

Well, let's get into it. So the first scene of Mystery Man. Jesus Christ. This is pod street cast. McG. I want to say. McPodcast. We've gone down such an alley.

Yeah, we really have. Nathan Rabin, in his My Year of Flops entry on Mystery Man said that Mystery Man is far better than any movie that looks this much like Batman and Robin has any right to be. And that's my review of it. It has that aesthetic. The cast is so good and I think the script's really good. I think the script's very funny. Apparently a lot of it was like rewritten

by the cast on set. But I think that movie works in spite of the fact that it's horribly directed. It is pretty badly directed. It has some just great stuff. It has some great stuff. Can I throw my hot take before we get back to McGee and then get back to War of the Worlds? Yeah. William H. Macy is fantastic.

Yeah. Also, my number one Ben Stiller performance. I think his best comedic performance in a movie. I mean, I'd have to pour over that. He's really good in that. I would also need to see Mystery Man again. It's been a long time. Then you need to see Heavyweights again to compare the two.

Back to McG. Let's go back. Let me just run free. Well, we'll get off McG right after this. Let me run down this motherfucker. Said society. Here's what he's done. Charlie's Angels debut.

It opens with Charlie's Angels. Big hit. The movie's a big hit. It has this MTV video direction style. Everyone's like, great. Makes Charlie's Angels full throttle. It's not a hit. His magnum opus, though.

It is an impressive movie. It's insane. great. Makes Charlie's Angels full throttle. It's not a hit. His magnum opus, though. It is an impressive movie. It's insane. Then he makes We Are Marshall, a disaster on every level. Wait, he did We Are Marshall? Yes. His bid for serious cred.

That's him trying to be serious. Oh my God, I had no idea because I just did a TV show in Huntington, West Virginia where Marshall was. Where Marshall is. And the whole,

everything we did was in the shadow of We Are Marshall. Like every, the only other big rush in the movie of We Are Marshall like every the only other big rush the last time a movie was here was

We Are Marshall can I throw something for you you're so interesting I was walking in the footsteps of McG when does that show

premiere JD February 23rd so it premiered right so by the time this episode comes out that show will have premiered two months

earlier I think oh really yeah something like that well go check out My Brother My Brother Me on C-Cell. Oh, yeah. The hottest podcast is now the hottest show of 2017.

David is saying this with a smile on his face that indicates a certain level of David's already expressed to me that he does not like television. Yeah, I'm a little out on television. We're a little burnt out. Alright, I need to finish this We are Marshall. We are Marshall. Critical failure, box office failure little out on television. We're a little burnt out. All right, I need to finish this McG thing. We are Marshall. We are Marshall. Critical failure, box office failure, disaster.

Yes. Right, like, and such an easy movie to make. Yeah. And they fuck it up. And then his fourth movie is what I think it is. This means war. No, Terminator Salvation comes before that. Right, right, Terminator Salvation.

Which was him being like, I'm going to be James Cameron. I'm going to do blockbusters, but I'm going to do high-minded blockbusters. There's a reason I forgot about that movie. And that we don't talk about that movie. Although we've talked about it a lot on this podcast. Inspired the most omnipresent arcade game in modern history. Every movie theater has that thing. Every multiplex

has Terminator Salvation. It looks pretty good. It's got those big guns. It replaced Time Crisis, too. Someone made some deal that you can't go back on. A grand folly. Yeah. Maybe that's like how the machines will take

over. Like those machines are the first. Those are. Skynet created the Terminator Salvation Arcade. Terminator Salvation.

Let's be clear. Another box office failure. Correct. Like he's been given the keys to things he keeps fucking up. So far he has one

successful movie. It's 2000. This Means War comes out in 2012. That movie is a calamity. Huge. It's a huge disaster. It's a huge bomb. It's a has one successful movie. It's 2000. This Means War comes out in 2012. That movie is a calamity. Huge. Huge disaster. It's a huge bomb.

It was a huge budgeted movie. Three hot stars. Yeah. A lot of money behind it. Although, you know, like in retrospect, you're like, maybe they weren't quite hot stars yet. Weird cast. Here's what I'll say, though, is that- And then three days to kill?

Yeah. The size of the budget. It barely came out. The size of the budgets and action stuff. Very few people Can wrangle something That huge That's the thing

It's a skill That's why he keeps Getting jobs Right But he's not good at it But he can actually Do it on a day to day basis Which is what the

Bottom line guys look at Right And they Honestly studios Should be taking more chances On people that have A big creative vision And what not

Instead of people That they just know Have done it before Can run the factory line. But it's still impressive. It's still impressive that he's made these big films. I'm not impressed. Okay, so Superman flyby.

McG drops out because he doesn't want to fly to Australia because he's afraid of planes. I had no idea. Yes, that's why. It's really weird. Because he was all ready to go. They were ready to green light him. But it's just one flight. Just get to Australia.

Are there any planes in any McG movies? There must be. gotta do is get on a plane. Just get to Australia. Are there any planes in any McG movies? There must be. Charlie's Angels starts on a plane. The top thing of Charlie's Angels is fucking Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz like parachuting out of a plane dressed like LL Cool J. Guys, enough. This is actually bad. We have to, come on, let's get back on track. This is actually great, but McG drops out.

I'm getting a little mad. I'm about to tie this all together. Alright, go ahead. McG drops out. J.J. Abrams makes a big play to direct Superman Flyby. Yes. And they're like, you can't give a big franchise to J.J. Abrams. You can't give the creator of Alias a movie, a big movie. An untested first-time director can't do it, right? So then they attach Brett Ratner.

And that movie later falls apart for, he leaves to go do something else. And then Singer comes in and pitches, hey, let's make a sequel to Superman 2. Wasn't it? Yeah. I mean, wasn't it Ratner and Singer essentially switch places? Yes. You know, because Ratner ends up making X-Men 3. Right. Right. That's exactly what happened. OK, great. So after the last thing you just heard me say about Ratner directing X3. Fascinating stuff. Yes. We recorded another five to ten minutes,

and then we realized that the computer had not actually recorded those five to ten minutes. And I'd like to point out that during those five to ten minutes, David got visibly distressed and frustrated that Griffin was going down such a rabbit hole of scheduling. Honestly, this sounds like a bit this is not. No. We went down such a rabbit hole. It. Honestly, this sounds like a bit this is not. No. We went down such a rabbit hole. It was like Return of the Jedi level me getting stressed out. Well, for listeners of our show,

it's probably hard for you to imagine David getting frustrated with me going down a weird corridor, but it happened. No, but here's the thing that's distinctive about it. I was getting frustrated because I knew the timeline wasn't matching up for me. So it was two things. It was one, oh, shit, we're off track, and two, wait a second, like, that doesn't make sense. I know it doesn't matter.

So in, like, a Groundhog Day-esque moment now, this means that David gets to get another chance at this day. All right. Okay, and I get another chance to recite the timeline in a way that is coherent and doesn't, Bill, break David's brain. Okay, 60 seconds. Tell me when to start.

Start. 2002, Minority Report. It goes well. Tom Cruise and Spielberg want to do another film together. They meet up on the set of Catch Me If You Can. He goes, here are three projects I have. War of the Worlds is the one he wants. He reaches out to J.J. Abrams to write the script. J.J. Abrams goes, ah, I'm too busy.

Trying to make this show lost. So they hire David Koepp. David Koepp's working on the script. They think he's going to hand it to them in 2005. They'll start filming that fall for a 2006 release. Tom Cruise's next film is going to be Mission Impossible 3 with Frank Darabont writing and Joe Carnahan directing. Joe Carnahan gets in a fight with the studio, leaves the film a month before filming, leaves it in disarray.

Tom Cruise wants a film to be released in 2005. He's got this gap on his schedule. He hires J.J. Abrams, who is now done with Lost, to take over Mission Impossible 3 and start it from square one. But now that means the film is pushed back at least a year. So what does he do now in 2005? He goes to Spielberg, who is an active pre-production on Munich, which he's going to release in 2005, and goes,

hey, I have a hole. Can you push back Munich for like six months and make War of the Worlds with me? I just got this first draft from David Kapp, and I love it. And so Tom Cruise and Steven Spielberg commit to making War of the Worlds in the summer of 2004, starting filming in November of 2004 to be released the following July, which is a crazy timetable. Jim. Good job. That was about 75 seconds.

That was not bad. Pretty good. It was not 10 minutes. No, it was not 10 to 20 minutes. And you didn't lose your mind. No, it was great. And this time you did not mention Turok last flight. Griffin, maybe we should always do this.

Like record the whole podcast, listen back and be like, let's squeeze this into 10 minutes. Right? That was very concise and very on point. And that is what happened with War of the Worlds is pre-production, whatever, melodrama, right? Right. That's basically why it happened so quickly. And as we were talking about in the bit that we lost,

that we can now talk about again, Cruise's passion for the script was one of the propulsive things here. They had decided to do it. David Koepp had written it, and Cruise loved the script. And Cruise and Seelberg had both said, like, well, we thought it was going to take longer to develop the script, but this Koepp draft was so good it was ready to go right away. Which is crazy.

Which. In my opinion. Yes. Like, too. I just think it's crazy. I think it needed a little more time in the oven. Yeah, and maybe, like, a new oven, not the David Koepp oven. Yeah, maybe you move from David Koepp's toaster oven to putting it like you're like,

okay, it's warm, but it's not crispy yet. Yeah. Let's put it in a real gas oven. I also think, and we'll talk about this later, I think there is, this sounds like this is a joke, but I truly believe that there is a post-9-11 rush of people trying to tap into the emotions that are being felt. 100%. And I think for, my guess is a total assumption, which I hate assuming stuff, but it feels like

right after 9-11 going, War of the Worlds is a story that needs to be told again. Yeah. Feels like that might have had some sort of relationship. For a certain David Koepp also talked about when he wrote it, like, he wanted it to be about life on the about when he wrote it he wanted it to be about life on the ground during the invasion

he wanted it to be about regular people who are experiencing this chaos not to be zoomed out and how could he not have been inspired by recent news. The characters are just trying to survive. The characters you're following are not power players. They're on the run they're not gonna

arguably one of the bad things in the movie is when they do kind of like take it to the aliens. Because largely they do not take it to the aliens. Yes. You know, the aliens are not, I mean, we don't even see the force fields around the tripods until way late in the movie. We're told about them early on. But, like, we don't even, Tom Cruise isn't even going to, like, shoot a gun at these guys. Like, he's just running away. It's not an action movie until the last third, which is when I start losing my zest for it.

Would definitely agree. I think I texted Griffin as I was watching this last night. You were like, this movie's so great. I was like, this is a good damn movie. And I think I was like 15, 20 minutes in. Coyote, you sent him a name to one of the best films of the decade. Yeah, they loved it. Yeah, it was hugely popular with European critics especially.

For me, it's a half and a half thing. Like, I was watching it and looking at the time bar, and it almost at the exact midway point falls apart for me. That's probably right. It's got some scenes and moments that are just, like, top of his game Spielberg. The first half is unbelievable. It is. Yes.

It is. But bar for some cutesy David Koepp, you know, writing shorthand shit, like, you know, like kind of, you know, father-son shit, like, it's perfect. But I think even that stuff in the first half is done pretty... I think it's done fine. What I like is that it's done quickly. Yes. I agree with that.

Yes. Ten minutes. Very economical. Totally agree with that. The lightning thing, the lightning storm happens, like, five minutes into the movie. Well, so... We can get into all this. Ten.

But yeah, we'll get to that. But it's so much quicker than you think. It happens ten minutes in and the first two minutes are Morgan Freeman narration. There's essentially eight minutes of character shit before the tack starts. Agreed, agreed, agreed. We should also mention,

as I believe we're about to mention when we got cut off, that Tom Cruise was in the middle of some sort of a personal crisis slash transformation. Yes, and we didn't mention that in the shortened version of things, but before this movie, this was the height of Tom Cruise. He was superstar, as Griffin mentioned in the part that you didn't hear,

like vanilla sky, just his existence in that. I mean, if I can get into my phases, you know, I like my phases. Your cruise phase. Because the cruise, you know, I like my phases. Your cruise phase. Because the cruise, you know, you've got 80s Cruise, right, is like, he's a cutie pie, and he's a hot guy in a movie. And I think this is

important to note. We've talked about this in the German Wire episode. The dominant narrative is Tom Cruise is someone who's the fucking best. Right. People around him doubt him

and tell him to be less confident. And at the end, he proves everyone wrong and reasserts that he is the fucking best and had no reason to doubt him. You're talking risky business. You're talking Top Gun. You're talking cocktail.

You're talking like. And then. So after that, he's like, great. I'm Tom Cruise. I'm a big star. Let me work with serious directors. He makes Rain Man. He makes Color Money.

He makes Born on the Fourth of July. You know, like makes these serious movies these films are Tom Cruise mixed in with some of the sillier stuff like Days of Thunder Far and Away

or whatever Tom Cruise thinks he's the fucking best then he starts to question whether or not he's a shell of a man and then he rebuilds himself continues to be as good

at the thing he always did but now with more humanity yeah that's phase two Cruise Interview the Vampire being the apex of that right and then phase three

is like I'm Tom Cruise I have a production company and I want to work with like you Interview the vampire being the apex of that. Right. And then phase three is like, I'm Tom Cruise. I have a production company and I want to work with like, you know, the cream of the crop. Like Brian De Palma, Cameron Crowe, Stephen Spielberg, Thomas Anderson. Michael Mann. Michael Mann. And this is kind of Tom Cruise. And this movie is the year after Collateral, right?

Correct. What a great movie. He went straight from Collateral Press into War of the Worlds. And that phase is Tom Cruise testing himself. Going like, A, what happens if I give the ingredient that is Tom Cruise and the star power that is Tom Cruise and the budget that comes with it to auteurs and trust them to mangle, not mangle, but rework my persona. Right. Try to approach, you know, their persona. Right. Try to approach you know their own themes through me as a prism.

And during this film is when he went through the famous like manic public breakdown thing where he's jumping on the couch. It was the press tour for this movie. It was the press tour for this movie. Like the Matt Lauer your glib bat interview happens in front of big banners that say War of the Worlds.

And apparently Spielberg was not happy about this. That was the end of there. Because it's the things like, you'd think like, oh, what a fruitful partnership this is. They make Minority Report, they make War of the Worlds and wrap pretty quickly like, this is, has Spielberg found like, maybe he did too much Tom Hanks

now it's Tom Cruise? And then after this that's it. Yeah, there is a version where all the Spielberg movies to come that are Hanks, now it's Tom Cruise. Right. And then after this, that's it. Yeah, there is a version where all the Spielberg movies to come that are Hanks movies could have been Cruise movies had not been that. I don't know. Yeah. And the alternate question is, if he had kept up the Cruise partnership, what kind of projects would he have chosen?

Right. You know? Totally. Like, does he pick something like Bridge of Spies because he's like, this would be a great Hanks movie? Right. What happens if his mind is, this is my new collaborator, how do I find things for him?

When Shia LaBeouf talks about his relationship with Spielberg and The Falling Out, which I'm sure we'll cover a lot more in the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull episode, he said, when Shia LaBeouf was shit-talking Transformers 2 during press or Transformers 3 or whatever, he said

LaBeouf has, betraying his confidence, said this publicly. He's like whatever. He said, like, you know, LaBeouf has, betraying his confidence, said this publicly. He's like, Spielberg said to me, there are times where you're an artist and there are times where you just have to get out there and sell the fucking car. Sure. And he said, like,

LaBeouf said that was a moment that kind of freaked him out. It was like, I don't like this, like, bite your tongue and just sell the movie. We got to make money kind of thing. Sure. Well, Shia LaBeouf should. Shut the fuck up. Right. And the Tom Cruise thing, it feels like Tom Cruise jumping on the movie, we gotta make money kind of thing. Sure. Well, Shia LaBeouf should. Shut the fuck up. Right.

And the Tom Cruise thing, it feels like Tom Cruise jumping on the couch, making everything about Katie Holmes, you know? The premiere of this film was the first time that they were publicly together. And he kind of co-opted the press tour for his own personal narrative. Tom Cruise has obviously decided,

because he divorces Nicole Kidman in, what, 2000, 2001? She divorces him. I'm sorry. Fair enough. They get divorced. And Penelope Cruz happens for a little while, but that fizzles out, and then he has that relationship with the non-person. The non-person? David. The not-famous

person who is, like, you know, a Scientologist, and then they dump her. The one who's on How I Met Your Mother and Ben-Hur. I forget her name. I do, too. And also, we need not just associate her with being Tom Cruise's brief girlfriend because as David said

she's a non-person she's not famous she's actually a good actress that's good I'm glad for you I just forget her name Scarlett Johansson obviously is like

there's that story that she was like scouted for Scientology you must have heard that story she like walked into a room with like a bunch of people

and she was like oh my god and like ran away I've heard multiple versions of that story I've heard that story also happening with Jessica Alba,

happening with, I believe, Rachel McAdams, happening with Kirsten Dunst. This is all a legend. Open call audition. Not open call. This is a legend. A series of screen tests. Sure.

They were sort of like, you know, whatever. This is a legend. A legend, a legend. A legend. I say all these things on the podcast that aren't real. Don't take anything I say seriously. Also, if you want to make a start of anyone, Griffin Newman, he's here ready. I'm ready.

Tom Cruise is obviously ready himself to embark on the next phases of his public life. Right. And he decides that the War of the Worlds press tour is the place to do this. A brand refresh. To refresh his brand. Here's Katie Holmes. I love her, I love her, I love her. Jumping on the couch.

She's a nice Midwestern girl. I'm an average Joe. We got a real new Coke situation here. Yes. Yeah, I think it's remarked, I've read somewhere, you know, that Steven Spielberg was supposed to be at the Oprah interview as well,

and he had to drop out because I think he was making Munich, or he was on Oprah. Oh my gosh. Would that not have been one of the greatest cultural items of all time? Exactly. Spielberg was just sitting there

with his hand over his mouth. Right. But there's some alternate reality where it's like, maybe Cruise is chill because Spielberg is there and maybe everything goes differently. Yeah.

Who knows? Or maybe we just have this insert shot of Steven Spielberg bouncing slightly on the couch as Tom Cruise is jumping on it. He's losing his mind. But yeah, Spielberg is really angry that Cruise doesn't just get out there and sell the car. He's supposed to be out there selling the car, and instead he starts talking about his timeshare.

Yes, exactly. He's trying to sell Tom Cruise, the long-term narrative here. Right. And, of course, everyone remarks, like, well, that really fucks over War of the Worlds. No, it doesn't. Tom Cruise, the long-term narrative here. And of course, everyone remarks like, well, that really fucks over War of the Worlds. No, it doesn't. War of the Worlds is a big hit. What it fucks over is Mission Impossible 3 the next year. That movie really

suffered. It takes a little while for the box office effect to happen. The longer the Katie Holmes things goes on, the worse it is. The initial burst is bad, but then they're know, they're still weird. Like, no one's ever into that. Yeah, and I also—

And there's a lot of it. I think it has hurt the reputation of this movie. Like, everyone went to see it. Like, it made a crazy amount of money. Everyone went to see it. But I feel like everyone— It does have some association with those days. It did not have the Spielbergian gravitas that usually comes with like, ooh, Spielberg.

I feel like it became this media circus thing. Yes. Which I think what, there's all these things talking about how Spielberg was not happy about it. And I think it's because like, oh, he had a reputation of being this like the filmmaker. And then suddenly he's wrapped up in all this gossipy. Yeah, it's like Spielberg makes a Spielberg movie. And I feel like audiences walked out and mostly made Tom Cruise jokes. You know, like I felt like that was the cultural.

It's not his best performance. No. And here's another thing. This movie does something. Talking about different auteurs using Tom Cruise, you know, different aspects of his movie star persona to get at different themes. Yes. This movie asks something of tom cruise that i think is too big of a reach one thing he cannot which is pull off just be an average guy yeah i agree with

you i think he does a pretty good dirtbag job at certain he's an okay dirtbag especially at the beginning at the beginning one of my notes was, good dirtbag Tom Cruise. But imagine this movie with, I mean. Yes. Mark Wahlberg. Mark Wahlberg. No, thank you. I kept thinking that. You know, it's like, yes.

Not Mark. Not Mark Wahlberg. I'm into Mark. I mean, the problem with Mark, obviously, is the pitchy voice when he's yelling at people. But I think. There's a war in the world? Tim Robbins, shut up. Yeah, butcher Wahlberg, actually.

That would be a good third you're pretty good at Wahlberg yeah but um uh no just cause like the

humor I guess of like the first hour especially is that he's the worst dad like he's not good at reassuring his children at all like he keeps being like you know everything

everything's fine everything's fine if we go back we're gonna die you know like he doesn't he can't modulate. I think Tom Cruise has two really strong modes, right? And I think any great Tom Cruise performance is tapping into one of these two or both. One is a guy who's great at doing stuff, right?

Tom Cruise is great at just exuding a confidence and a control over a situation. One could say a top gun. Right. I think the second mode that Tom Cruise is even better at is someone who is sort of losing their mind over their lack of control desperately becoming manic as they try to hold on to a situation that's like the interview scene in Magnolia Jerry Maguire minority report like you know and then there's the third category which is legend which is just next level Tom Cruise as dissolving into a character that you cannot even see the actor behind it

because it's such a good performer. Full immersion. Love me some legend. This movie is weird because the whole take on it is average Joe, street level, not fighting the aliens. He has no control over the situation, but also he's not freaking out about his lack of control. No.

Yeah, he doesn't have much of a character. He doesn't. And he doesn't have much of a character arc. I think that's the thing that... It's why I don't get why he was so hot for the script. Same here. I don't get what he sees in the script and is like, I cannot wait to sink my teeth into this. Because it's the opposite of what he usually likes playing.

And even the way it's set up of like, here's a dude who barely sees his children. He gets a weekend with them in the aliens attack and the whole movie is like you see if someone pitched that to you and said Steven Spielberg

is going to direct a movie where Tom Cruise has to hold on to his relationship with his estranged children during an alien attack you go I know exactly what that movie is going to be.

Right. And then the movie doesn't really care about that as an emotional through line which is almost in the movie's favor. Or it does at points and then doesn't at other points. Sure. I would agree. It's generally in the movie's gonna be. Right. And then the movie doesn't really care about that as an emotional through line, which is almost in the movie's favor. Or it does at points and then doesn't

at other points. Sure, I would agree. It's generally in the movie's favor that it doesn't make it too cute of a metaphorical, like, the aliens may have destroyed Earth,

but he, like, bonded with his son or whatever. I think what I was excited, watching it, like, what you sort of want is at the beginning of the film tom cruise puts himself before his kids and his family that's the whole thing and then by the end you're like

okay he's gonna have a big moment where he puts them first and makes some big sacrifice and we see that change happen and that you don't really get that and so the film feels like you're left hanging and in fact at the end the grand gesture is that he returns his kids to his wife in a way that it feels like the opposite of what you're sort of hoping and it is you know there isn't much of a character as

written right but you look at like you compare his performance to Dakota Fanning's performance Dakota Fanning's performance is amazing she's unbelievable in my opinion the last great Dakota Fanning performance performance. Dakota Fanning's performance is amazing. She's unbelievable. In my opinion, the last great Dakota Fanning performance. I would agree with that.

After this, she grows up and I think she's become an okay, like, grown-up actress. She's okay, but that weird, precocious, like, brilliance she has

in these kid movies. She does a great job of just being, like, a vulnerable kid. And not in a precocious way, I think. Extremely good. No, but she is precocious

but I don't mean not in a way that is like I'm a child actor trying to be like it feels like a performance it feels like a genuine precocious kid yes yes yes

not precocious in quotes but like that's the same energy that she brought to I Am Sam like you know the movies where you're just like there's something

I know this is a stagey kid like I know that this is a kid who you call cut and she's like a perfect little child actress. Right. But there is something, like, you know, real to this character that she's created.

Yeah, there's some vulnerable moments. Yes. I shed tears twice last night watching this. She's good in, I'm saying she's good in Man on Fire, and she's good in this. Like, she's not great in, like, Uptown Girls. Or Cat in the Hat. Cat in the Hat.

Like, the ones where it's more like a cutesy movie. Yeah, who's the best in Cat in the Hat? Who Cat in the Hat Cat in the Hat like the ones where it's more like a cutesy movie yeah who's the best in Cat in the Hat who's the best in Cat in the Hat Alec Baldwin I never saw Cat in the Hat Alec Baldwin's good

in Cat in the Hat that movie is a fucking nightmare that movie is a real blank check movie you credit two points you were gonna say yes both of them I think

were her performances I'm trying to think what they were oh the first Chaos in the car yeah In the car? Yeah, in the car. The long shot, the crane

shot where it goes around and around again. Yes, maybe. The big one shot. She has a panic attack and she does a great job of presenting that out of control kid feeling where it's like, I don't know what's going on. I'm just stressed because the person that i'm relying on for any sort of semblance doesn't know

what's going on doesn't know what's going on and won't communicate and then the and that got me emotional i like i was like oh i remember that feeling as a kid and then the other one was the boat scene similar where the dad has that moment where he's like, he's like, just follow me, do this. And then you can tell she's like, oh, this is out of control. Yeah. And both times it was her performance that triggered me that got things misty.

And I was like, damn. I want to speak to that. Damn, that's good. I feel like I did Dakota Fanning wrong. I think she's very nice in Coraline. Oh, she rules in Coraline. Oh, she's great in Coraline. I mean, obviously it's a vocal performance.

It's a little different. Right, and obviously Coraline's the best use of 3D in any movie. Yes, and Coraline. Oh, my gosh. You guys, man. Let me talk about that for just two seconds. You guys did me dirty. I didn't do you dirty.

I'm on your fucking side. I did JD dirty. I called him a dumb anime fan. I didn't call him that. You called him a dumb, weird animation freak. Yeah, because you guys are dumb, weird animation freaks. He said that about both of us. Right, right.

I was literally like, I was having a long day working on a show. Eating lunch. You were like having a bad time, trying to relax, listening to some blank check. I was. I was eating lunch in our post facility, listening to blank check, and then all I hear is like, no, no, no, you and JD are idiots. You're dumb animation freaks.

Dumb, weird animation freaks. I think I texted Griffin. I was like, what the? No, you texted both of us. I was like, come on, guys. But I was on your fucking side. I was getting persecuted right along with you. Anyway, if you guys want to. Coraline is the strongest visual and thematic use of stereoscopic film that has ever been created. Avatar looks cooler in 3D and is more immersive.

Thematically, it doesn't mean anything. Coraline's the one film that uses three-dimensional depth thematically within this narrative. As a piece of the language of film. A bunch of dorks

I'm talking to right now. JD and I high-fived. For those of you that don't know JD and I, high-five. Coraline. Ben put a big high-five sound effect in there.

Yeah. Got it. Okay, and Ben and also Dub Over Will saying got it. All right. War of the Worlds. War of the Worlds. The thing that's most impressive to me

about Dakota Fang's performance is, and both those moments you just talked about have this, she plays shock and trauma better or as well as any adult actor I've ever seen. Because she's not playing shock and trauma. She's playing the child confusion, wants information. She's not crying.

Handle the information, but wants it. She's not a forward brow. She's just looking around. You see her observing everyone, and then seeing her try to do the math in her head of what's going on in a way that's like, that is exactly how you feel in those moments of chaos. And any time you cut to Dakota Fanning having one of those reactions in the movie,

it pulls you into the movie so deeply because it feels like VR. It's like, okay, I see how she's reacting to this. That's how I would react to this. You feel like you're there in the moment. Agree with you guys. Counterpoint. I'm not just obsessing over this. I'm using this as a counterpoint, okay?

Counterpoint. I'm not just obsessing over this. I'm using this as a counterpoint, okay? Counterpoint. Tom Cruise is like a fucking trained ballet dancer and he hits his moves so precisely. Yeah, right. Anytime he's running away from the aliens,

he's doing the Tom Cruise run and when he's playing Shock, it's Tom Cruise, action star Shock. It's okay. Right. So none of the

characters in this film have character arcs, right? Yeah, not particularly. And by design, this movie, because it's street level, because it's all of that, it's like, I appreciate the fact that it doesn't do

pat narrative character growth kind of shit. Right. But I do think whether or not Mark Wahlberg's the right choice, you want someone in this role who, because there's not much of a character there, can just exude the same sort of like blue collar worry and griminess

and all of that so that you have the same reaction every time you cut to that guy that you do every time you cut to Dakota Fanning where it's like, I don't know who this guy is, but I understand how he's reacting and I relate to it. Yes, I think I think to me what it speaks to is maybe almost the issue of Tom Cruise, especially at that point in his career and where he is and stuff, is that when you look at him, you see Tom Cruise. Yes, always.

You don't see, I can't even think of what his name is in this. Ray? Oh yeah, it's Ray. Ray Ferrier. Because his kids call him Ray, right. Like, you see Tom Cruise. Always.

I agree. And I think one of the joys of a script like this would be you see these characters and you don't know what will happen because chaos is unfolding around them. They could live, they could die, they could this. When you see Tom Cruise, you don't feel scared that he's going to be in trouble or get hurt because you know Tom Cruise is the underlying capital T hero

of American cinema. He's going to make it out. He's going to beat the bad guys. So I think it hurts the cause. No matter how good his performance is, you can't overcome that. I also think that the movie's pivotal

moment for him, which is killing Tim Robbins, feels like such an afterthought when it shouldn't. If he has an arc at all, it's that, I guess. He understands that the animalistic protection of his children extends to this. at all, it's that, I guess, is that he's, you know, driven, you know, he understands that the sort of, like,

animalistic protection of his children extends to this. But see, the problem, I think the problem, the reason, not the problem, it's not a problem, the reason that that didn't hit as hard for me is because that comes after the moment that I still don't understand that doesn't totally click for me of when

his son joins the military. That's the moment the fun falls apart. I'm sorry, the arc of his son didn't click for you? I thought that was all very clear and well acted by Justin Chatwin. Goku himself. Love Justin Chatwin. Yes. In a Spielberg movie. Second build. Well, no, his third build.

America had Chatwin fever. Justin Chatwin. But it's like that moment sort of undercuts that next moment, which is really a cool could be a powerful scene,'s like that moment sort of undercuts that next moment, which is really a cool, could be a powerful scene, but instead you're sort of like, wait, what? What? He just joined the military?

Like, what? Well, it's also Justin Chatwin. It's also from that point on, the movie starts to feel like what you would imagine as the worst version of a Tom Cruise War of the Worlds movie. Like all the sort of like you are there realism, worst version of a Tom Cruise War of the Worlds movie. Right. Like, all the sort of, like, you are there realism, the chaos of just, like, I don't know what the fuck is going on, you know?

I mean, this movie is so good at, in the first half especially, showing the kind of dazed reaction. Yes. Of just, like, the world is crumbling around me and I don't even have time to process it. Right. Like, the moment when theumbling around me and I don't even have time to process it. Right, like the moment when the lightning first happens, I really love when he's outside and he's like,

look at this, this is so cool. And then the daughter gets scared and then he gets scared and then he gets really scared and then the daughter gets really scared because he's gotten really scared and then suddenly he's like, oh, this thing that I thought was this cool, daring, fun thing to sew my daughter is now out of control.

Yeah, well, he's doing the dad thing at first. He's like, nah, don't worry about it. Check it out. Check it out. Come on. I know it's scary. He also has a classic Tom Cruise, young Tom Cruise scream. When the giant lightning strike happens, he screams like he did when he was younger.

I feel like the older Tom Cruise scream is like a masculine, manly thing. He does like, he has this weird moment of performance where you're like, ooh, that's like, that's super young Tom Cruise. He's good. He's good in the early part of the movie. Like, you know, in that first half hour or so. He's okay. Yeah, I wish he was even grimy or whatever, yeah.

But I think it's because that's the strongest part of the movie. And that's, that's. All right. The movie should have been. I'm shutting you guys down. Shut up. We're going to talk about the movie rather than like jumping around. All right.

The movie opens. Being a guest on your podcast is such a pleasure, dude. Great. Shut up. We're going to talk about the movie rather than jumping around. All right. The movie opens. Being a guest on your podcast is such a pleasure, David. Great. Shut up. Thank you, J.D. It's a great pleasure to be on my podcast. I love you, David. I'm a little hungry.

I'm realizing that. Hey, David, I love you. I love you too, J.D. I really do. I do too. Yeah, it's great. No, seriously. I know.

We've known each other for a while. Guys, I'm here too. I'm also here. Hi. One of my favorite things is talking movies and TV with you guys. We've had so much fun over the years talking movies and TV. Also, before we recorded this, we talked for maybe an hour.

Benny overslept. Benny and the Jets? More like Benny overslept. Benny and the Z's. Benny overslept. That's the theme song now. The movie is set in Bayonne, New Jersey. Not Patterson, New Jersey. The opening is set in Bayonne, New Jersey. Yes.

Not Patterson, New Jersey. Bayonne, New Jersey. The opening, he's working in Brooklyn, I found out. The opening construction site's supposed to be Brooklyn. And a lot of this movie was shot in Brooklyn, and that final scene when he's in Boston, that was shot on my block, basically. Right, yeah. So he's a real, ha ha, he's a guy, man.

He's a real blue-collar guy. Yeah, this guy's really a guy. He's got like a Carhartt jacket. Yeah. He works that old shipping container thing real good. He's the best there is. They have a little shot where they have a close-up of his hand and it gives a little tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.

Oh, yeah. And it's like, oh, this guy knows what he's doing. You know, just, he's the guy that the judge from The Wire, who's in that opening scene, Judge Fahey or whatever he's called in The Wire, he's like, you know, you got to work the next shift. Only you can do all the shipping container stuff. He's like, ah, I got to go home. Well, I like the one line he has, which is such like a want, want line. He's like, you know what your problem is?

And then Tom Cruise goes like, huh, I know a lot of women who could tell me. And the guy goes, ah, doesn't even finish his thing. Yes. Things that normal human men say. David Koepp. That's what that is right there. Really? I mean, I really think that's the kind of shit he brings to the table.

Yeah. You know, he's got such a sort of Robert McKee, like, we're going to do it. We're going to set everyone up. Well, so he said that. But he did. He's set up. He's set up there. That's the only thing I'll say for it. Happens fast. And he set everyone up. Well, so he said that. But he did. He's set up. He's set up there. That's the only thing I'll say for it.

Happens fast, and he's set up. I feel like David Koepp's a guy you hire to adapt something, give you the bones of it, so then you can, like, rewrite it and add some personality to it. Absolutely. Like, the best David Koepp scripts you feel like then someone else with some finesse came in and, like, put a nice coat of paint over the bones. To be fair, Josh Friedman is also credited here on this script.

only because he wrote the first draft I believe he had written the first draft. Before Spielberg came on board. The one that they tossed out. Yes. Of course, you know what he's working on right now. What?

Avatar 2. Avatar 2. Tuvatar. So. Avtutar. Tuvatar, the second to last airbender. So,

War of the Worlds. Yeah, so his kids are home for the weekend in Bayonne, New Jersey. In this shitty little place. Both of his kids call him Ray. They don't know him that well. There's a car engine in his living room. There is, which I like. I like his places are appreciably shitty.

I also like that he has a decent bedroom set. He's got some good stuff and then also a bunch of random crap. I like when he takes his shirt off and lies down in bed because usually you look at Tom Cruise shirtless. Weird chest. And he's got a funny chest. Too many muscles. And you're like, man, this isn't a real person.

With this guy, I'm like, you know what? He probably works out a lot. Fucks around. Doesn't't do much I can buy it you know he's also done something that was startling to me where he goes his kids annoy him so he goes to take a nap and then they go we're hungry and he goes well then order something out

he says order I don't think he even says order he's just like what do we do and he's like order yeah and then so he lays down has that nap. There's a moment also that to me is the part of this film that aged the most. The hummus joke? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I agree. The thing where he's like, hummus? What is this shit? It's like a joke that someone would eat hummus. He's like, what do you mean? She's like, hummus. He goes, hummus? Yeah.

As if like. I wanted you to order real food. Yeah, she goes, you told me to order. And he went, yeah yeah I meant order food yeah right right I think if that movie came out today that would be quinoa would be that even that would feel a little hacky quinoa

but now it's like hummus is so ubiquitous that it's so funny that it's like who would eat hummus it's the way that late 80s 90s movies have late 80s early 90s movies have the same jokes about sushi. Right. You know, where it's like raw fish.

Yeah. Can you send this back? I think it's undercooked. You know, like those jokes. Hummus! But let's mention, because this is important to the setup, wife is going to go visit the in-laws in Boston. And Kevin, or whatever his name is.

This fucking fuckboy Kevin. Yeah, who plays that guy? We see him for like one hot second. His name is Richard T. Fuckboy. Miranda Otto, who had just come off of The Lord of the Rings. Playing Eowyn. Where she plays Eowyn, who kind of sucks in my opinion. I like that character.

Yeah, I think it's a super overrated character. I think she's a cool character. Well, Kevin, which I don't know if that's his character name. I'm going to call him Kevin. Yeah. His performance is that- What is his name? It's not Kevin.

It's Kevin from Tenzin Forever City. His performance is that he wears a black turtleneck. Correct. Yeah, good job on that. But there- I believe his name is- Tim. Wait for it.

Tim. Tim. Yeah. David Alan Bach. David Alan Greer? Yeah, David Alan Greer. Jag? David Alan Bach David Alan Greer Jack might be good in the lead role he'd be great

underrated as a dramatic actor my dad saw him play Jackie Robinson on Broadway do you know this there was a Jackie Robinson musical with David Alan Greer musical David Alan Greer started out in musical theater no I'm fine with that. It's more Jackie Robinson musical. I think it was called The First, maybe.

I don't know. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. He's so great on Carmichael shows. So great. Also, unbelievable in the NBC production of The Wiz. I didn't watch that.

Oh, he fucking... Was he The Wiz? He was the cowardly lion. Oh, he was the lion. I just saw him on set shooting the Big Sick, the movie, the Apatow-produced movie

that's coming out. Oh, he's in the show, right? The Michael Gawalt movie, and he was funny. Yeah, Camille Longiani shot the Walter giant. I watched him do the same scene like four times,

so you really get an appreciation when you watch that. He's also really good on Match Game. I don't know if you folks watch Match Game. I mean, I've watched a couple of episodes

on your recommendation. Do you guys watch Big Fan? You mean the... The Pat Nozzle movie? it's a new TV show is it based on the Pat Nozzle movie? because that's not something I'd really base a movie on please tell me it's about an actual giant man this came on after The Bachelor

this past whatever and it's they get a celebrity and then they get their three super fans and they do a trivia contest in front of that celebrity on the set, hosted by, what's his name, Conan's sidekick, Andy Richter. Yeah. And then at the end, whoever wins does a trivia competition

between the celebrity of trivia about the celebrity, and the first episode was our friend, our writer, writer, writer, Matthew McConaughey. Oh, our friend, Matty. And it was a really bizarre show. But ABC, fun and games. ABC likes the fun and games. Fun and games. But yeah, there's this thing the film establishes

where they're driving to Boston, which is why he has the kids. He takes a nap of indeterminate time, which gives the wife and Tim some sort of head start where they know they're far away. Yeah. And when shit starts going bad, first there's the lightning strike, right? He wakes up. The sun's missing. You've missed one of the biggest moments in the film.

What is it? One of the greatest moments. The baseball? Tom Cruise coughs. He coughs in one of the scenes. I don't know what he's talking about. There's a scene where Tom Cruise is talking

and then he stops and goes, and coughs into his hand. Like a normal human does. To set up the fact of how humans are to defeat the aliens in the end. Oh, he's sick. He's sick.

He's coughing. And they put that in and they highlight it and it's like a moment. And you're like, if you didn't know what the world's about, you'd be like, Tom Cruise is going to die. But instead, you're like, I get what you're doing here. I get it. We should also, yeah, he does have the aggressive baseball, the aggressive scene of playing catch with his son,

where they're essentially whipping a baseball at each other at 80 miles an hour. The son hates him. He wears a Boston Red Sox hat to fuck with him. And then he turns it around backwards. Justin Chatwin is abysmal in this film. It's one of the worst performances in any Steven Spielberg film I've ever seen. It's one of the worst performances he's ever directed. And Spielberg, generally a good director of actors.

The character is so surfacy, and the performance isn't adding any layers to it. The performance feels like a guest star on a TV show about a rebellious teen. Like, say, by the bell, it's like the bad kid in school. I am racking my brains trying to think of an equally harmful Spielberg film performance. Because I think any other Spielberg movie with a bad performance is at least bad in weird, ambitious ways. Maybe Catherine Zeta-Jones in The Terminal which we have talked about. Or I was going to say Julia Roberts in Hook.

But that's at least bad like she's trying shit that really isn't working. I would say that performance almost underrated because of its reputation. It's like one of the worst things that's ever happened. What about Harrison Ford in Crystal Skull? No, come on. He's alright. Guys, I'm trying to be a culture critic here.

Oh, sure. Okay, so they're on route to Boston. I'm like lost in the weeds. Yes. Miranda Otto and Timmy Kevin are on the route to Boston. He wakes up from the nap. Kevin, make love to me in that turtleneck. As I do every night.

He wakes up. Justin Chatwin's gone, right? Where the fuck did he go? Then the lightning starts happening. Which is, I mean, I love that so much of the action in this movie is just noise. Yes. Maybe some light off screen. Love it.

It's so scary, the lightning storm. And all it is is a bunch of flashes. You could basically stage that in the 1950s. Yeah, and what I love is this section of the movie starts really milking the terror of watching a bunch of strangers all reacting to the same thing in confusion. Yes, because this is one of the first big budget disaster films post 9-11. Right. And so. This is, I mean, to me, the definitive blockbuster 9-11 movie.

This is what 9-11, like, this is what New York City felt like on September 12th. There's a lot of imagery of people on the streets. Yes. Looking up at the sky. It's actually like a haunting and creepy movie to watch. It's really effective, though. It is. Yes.

It is. It realizes it's better than any other movie I've seen that tries to weaponize the 9-11 imagery. And a lot of good misinformation stuff of just people being like, what's going on?

I have no idea. I think it's terrorists. Yeah, they shout, is it the terrorists? And he's like, something's attacking us. Also, worth noting, the first shot of this film,

aside from the Morgan Freeman stuff, is a shot of New York City, no tower. Yeah. It's the first shot is just like that part of New York in a way that feels very intentional. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Like it's Southport. Spielberg has at this point talked about it, right?

Like, I mean, he made it with that intention. Yeah, 100%. But there's like the storm's the first thing to happen the overwhelmingly terrifying cloud up in the sky the weird cloud

then the storm Amy Ryan next door with her toddler all these sort of parallel backyards a lot of wire alarms in this one right but all these

it's this row of houses that all have these tiny gated you know backyards and you see everyone under the Bayonne Bridge right

stepping out and looking up at the sky. And it's that great thing that I don't see other movies do, but that, like, gets at what it actually feels like when this shit's going down and no one knows what it is yet, which is people trying to decide whether or not to be scared yet. Right. Like, their first instinct isn't fear.

It's like. It's sort of confusion and interest. I mean, because he goes there. You got Rick Gonzalez, who I think is such a wonderful little actor. One of my favorite characters. He really is a great character. I don't know what happened to him. Because at this period of time, he was on a roll.

It's when he starts showing up and stuff. He was in Reaper, which he's great in. Oh, yeah. Talk about TV that time forgot. Yeah. Tyler Labine, baby. That was seven Tyler Labine shows ago. Yeah, there's a lot of Tyler Labine shows out there.

Yeah, they go to look at this, like, the lightning strike, and they're all gathered around it, and the cops who are kind of doing that thing were like, I don't think anyone should be around here. I don't know what this is, though. Like, you know, no one really knows how to react. I'm saying, like, back up, but I'm not really enforcing it. That image, I'm sorry, just that thought of

that it's cold is really cool. I also, Cruise plays that kind of well, where he's, like, sort of tossing the rubble between his hands. Yeah. Oh, it's so creepy. But even just the thing where all the cars are stopped and you just see the streets.

Because there's also been like an EMP blast essentially. And people are doing a thing where there's a couple moments where it's like everyone like takes a couple steps back and then takes a couple steps forward. It's like,

they're like, at one point they're hiding behind a wall and then they step forward. It's like no one knows. And then one of the moments that I think they do really well is I...

So we're in a period of action movies where everything is like this giant thing, the entire planet, the entire world, a thing the size of this. It always doesn't feel that scale. No, right. Yeah. When the ground buckles. Oh, yeah.

Oh, God. That whole thing. And the church gets taken down. But when the ground bubbles, it's done at a speed and a simplicity that makes it feel that size and that scary. Whereas in Transformers, things like that, it feels fake.

It feels like toy cities. And here it's like, oh, no, this thing's giant that's coming out of the that, it feels fake. It feels like toy cities. And here it's like, oh no, this thing's giant that's coming out of the ground and it's scary. And you're only getting the perspective of what these people can see. So you don't get those establishing shots that are hard to swallow where it's like, and now we zoom out to outer space where you see the thing up against the southern hemisphere. And you still don't know what it is. You just haven't seen it. And then a moment where you know the church falls over and

it's very 9-11 yeah well not just that but just the sort of the dust in the air and like the you know the crowds of people who are kind of like you know should we run like you know like that that like you're talking about that weird thing of like i think there's also one of the first like shaky cam action things where it's like, really reminiscent of like, 9-11 on the ground, people filming it. It's like,

ground level, shaky camera, dust everywhere, and it's like, oh. Yanush, my man Yanush, loves to talk Yanush.

He talked about it. Everything in this film was shot at eye level. He did not want to do much, you know, especially in those scenes. He likes to shoot at eye level. He's doing his bleach

bypassing and stuff he's got the lens net and he's got his classic soft and his pro mists on there and it's super fucking grainy this movie too like it's weird now to watch a big budget studio film that isn't insanely

crisp like now that's what big budget implies we're so inured to that Marvel look of like sort of, you know. Well, it's all digital now. Right. Well, that's right. But it's all this like. Not Stevie though. Not Stevie.

Right? No. He's still shooting on film. Yeah. But this is like such a film movie. But they do like. So Janusz Kaminski is famous for his lens netting, which is where you literally put like a net over the front or back of the lens.

Which get. I mean, he did it on Bridge of Spies, right? He still does it. He gets that weird sort of. I it on Bridge of Spies, right? He still does it. It gets that weird sort of, I don't know how to describe it. You can probably describe it. It looks like the image is bleeding. Well, the highlights start blooming. Right.

So like anything that's bright and like this is what Classic Soft does or Promis do similar but different things. J.D., be on every episode. Just talk to me about lenses. I want to hear it. It creates different blooms. It's so fucking hot. So Classic Soft and Promis will give you more of a

radial bloom. And the netting, you pick up this sort of, there's a word I can't think of right now, but it's like, it picks up the netting and then the highlights start to bleed. And here they do it so much so. Especially in those early scenes. In the early scenes and a big time.

But what it does is that it takes away some of the it takes away some of the realism and makes it more fantastical, but without any effects aside from that, so that it still feels grounded. Right, it doesn't feel like you're watching a newsreel exactly, but you're right. I just looked over to Griffin. He's got the mic in his lap. He looks like Paul Giamatti in fucking Barney's version. He looks like this disgruntled Jewish academic all of a sudden.

I was just so entranced by all the lens talk. JD talking lenses. My dick gets hard, man. It's the best. Well, we can get into all the lens talk. Let's talk about the lenses in the other movies. Tiffin Pro Mists are glass. What the hell is that?

about the lenses in the other movies tiffin promists are glass but they're originally they're based on um whatever they're called that were like the plastic versions the plastic versions would scratch and so then they make the glass version tiffin made the glass version because they and then schneider has their classic softs but then you get similar you know listen we can get into all the can you do an asmr where you just talk lenses? Can we just get into lenses and filters? Dude, Janush, he does comedy shit, right? He didn't do some shit with the- He did Funny People. He did Funny People.

He did Pineapple Express and stuff or something? No, he didn't. That's Tim Moore. Oh, right. You're right. You're right, of course. He did Funny People. He did another weird one recently.

He did some jokey sketch with Seth Rogen one time, right? Yeah. Yes. How hard would it be to get Janush Kaminsky in this podcast? You know, you know, I'm like, how hard would it be to get Janusz Kaminski like in this podcast? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like,

oh, yeah, he probably, well, he's definitely a listener. He's a blankie. Yeah, he could talk about how the Wilson super frosts his preference to promiss.

All right. To get us back on track as much as I don't want to, the tripod emerges. Tripod emerges. And, oh, he shot How Do You Know as well. So funny. So weird.

That's the other one. Okay. And starts blasting people with its heat ray, which is depicted pretty faithfully to the H.G. Wells. You know, like, it's a heat ray in the H.G. Wells. And, like, that is the idea that it's just, like... No blood. No gore. It just turns people into

soot. It just, like like poofs their body. But their clothes are fine and they poof away. Right, which is kind of amazing. Can I talk about the image that kind of unnerves me the most as someone who was a kid in New York on September 11th and the days following? It's moving back a second, but it's when we're introduced to Rick Gonzalez. JD's now getting into my Barney's version position. Yeah, Barney's version.

With the mic on the lap sitting back. It's when he first runs into Rick Gonzalez and Yul Vasquez, and they're the two, like, dudes he knows. And it's like the long tracking shot with them walking down the street. And in the foreground and the background, you just see all these people getting out of their car and all walking in the same direction. Right, right, yeah. And it's very unnerving to see in, like, a populated city area. Right, everyone doing that. In the same way, not in panic, not running,

but just in curiosity, like, all, and you just see more and more people. It's scary to watch that many people coordinated. Do you ever have a moment walking down the street in New York where, it might only be three people look up at the same thing and like you freeze and are like, what are they looking at? Right. Because it's very rare in New York where everyone kind of just is like, move out of the way. I'm going where I need to go. Yeah. People all start doing the same thing.

Like strangers on the street start doing the same thing. And if that happens. The phenomenon where it happens to me because that's unusual in the city but in the subway in the subway right all the time especially because i always have my headphones on this happened to me just yesterday where it's like suddenly you notice that everyone is sort of moving towards the doors and kind of peeking out the door yeah right your train is stuck in a station and then you like look and then you realize like some fucking thing it's happening right you know and people are either kind of migrating over there

or at least, like, looking, craning their necks and looking at, ugh. It's an alarming feeling. This movie does that incredibly well. But so zapping starts happening. Tom Cruise runs back, right? Yeah, he gets covered in ash, essentially. Right, he does a Tom Cruise run.

And he does a Tom Cruise run, but I really like that. No, it's when they're driving that has the highway shot, right? Yeah, this is when the church starts, like, getting sunk in the ground, but this is also really well done. No, it's when they're driving that has the highway shot, right? Yeah, this is when the church starts getting sunk in the ground, but this is also really well done. It is. It's wonderfully done. And yes, he does a Tom Cruise run, but there's just something

so, at the time I felt it, and watching it now, it's something so alarming and weird about the effect of people getting sootified, essentially. Yes, because also they do a thing where Tom Cruise interacts, or we see the person getting certified, essentially. Yes, because also they do a thing where, like, Tom Cruise interacts, or we see the person say something, and then they go, and then they disappear. Like Larry Veneto, especially,

which happens a little, like, a second later, but the car mechanic guy. It's often not a nobody. It's often someone that, like, you're introduced to for a second, and then they get disappeared, so that you're like, ooh, I like that person. Yeah, and the difference between this and Independence Day, which is a film that's obviously incredibly

indebted to War of the Worlds, you know, especially the novel, is that in Independence Day, things get blown up. We don't see any people die. We just see, like, engulfing flames, you know, take down the city. This movie's very focused on people dying. People are being killed. And that's the focus. Buildings.

Like, that's the primary focus. Exactly. Buildings are kind of being hit, like, collaterally, but not really. Like, it's people are being blasted. I that's the focus. Buildings. That's the primary focus. Exactly. Buildings are kind of being hit in the, like, collaterally, but not really. Like, it's people are being blasted. I would say the scariest moment of the film also has nothing to do with the aliens. Which is? The river of bodies. Car scene. The river of bodies is fucking scary. What, with the car scene? Car scene

before the diner. Oh, you mean you mean, like, the swarm of people. Yes, that's the most upsetting moment of the film. Ugh, that's awful. But we're gonna get to that. Yeah. But so. Yes, that's the most upsetting moment of the film. Oh, that's awful. But we're going to get to that. Yeah. But so, yeah, he gets the kids. He goes to Larry Veneto, who he had told to put a solenoid in the car engine, you know,

because he's a car mechanic. Which, listen, I don't want to be this guy because I hate this guy. But like. Please don't be this guy. Think about it, J.J. Tom Cruise is the only one in the entire country that knows how to fix this car. Yeah. Well, my guess is that other people, because you do see the things are working eventually, right? So other people eventually have this idea, but Tom Cruise, he's right there.

He's just the right, perfect time. I don't know. Who gives a shit? He has a solenoid car. Come on. The guy wants him to get out of the car. He's like, what the fuck are you doing? Oh, that is it. That is the first. Okay, so there's a couple

moments that happen. One, he takes the kids and they're all like, what's going on? And then he has a moment where he's totally, totally out of his mind. And he's like, you have 60 seconds to grab anything. He's not telling the kids. And that's when they first start panicking. Right. And you're like, oh, you're a bad dad. Kids are

freaked out. And then he walks them over to this car that is not his that he told the guy how to change the engine. Right. And they get inside. This is the first moment

that is like some good Spielberg-y intention. Yep. The guy that owns the shop comes up and he's like, Larry Veneto. Larry Veneto. He's like,

what are you doing? Let's get it. Kersh is like, we gotta go, we gotta go. You can get in if you want. Like, that's the only thing he concessioning gives. He's like, get in right now or we're all gonna die. He's like, what are you doing? Let's get it. Cruise is like, we got to go. We got to go. You can get in if you want. Like, that's the only thing he, concession he gives.

He's like, get in right now or we're all going to die. He's like, get in now or you're going to die. And then the guy. He screams that. Right. And the kids start freaking out, obviously. And the kids start screaming, like, dad, what's going, like, freaking out. And then finally Tom Cruise is like, close the door.

And it's like, that's a scary moment when the son has to close the door on this guy. And the guy starts screaming. And the guy's like, it's not your car. Like, what are you, you know, yeah. It starts off like funny and cordial. Like, what are you doing, man? And then it gets to like, get's a scary moment when the son has to close the door on this guy, and the guy starts screaming. And the guy's like, it's not your car. Like, what are you, you know, yeah. It starts off, like, funny and cordial. Like, what are you doing, man? And then it gets to, like, get out of the car, and he's like, no, no. It gets so stressful and tense.

And then, bam. In the rearview mirror. Yeah. We should say that that noise the tripods make is great. And I want to say that that noise the tripods make, I believe this is the first time, I think it's probably happened, but it's the first time, like the modern zeitgeist of action, we have that noise in everything now.

Yeah, the sort of the inception Brahms or whatever. Yeah, the bah. But you're saying this is the initial use of it. This was the initial time when it was used. You might be right. I'd be interested to delve into the history of the sort of reverb-y, like bass-y noise as a signifier or something terrifying. You should write that piece.

History of the Braum. I've always wanted to write about the history of the Braum and the history of girls who jump onto men's necks with their legs and snap the neck and then like fall down. Because that is a move that was not a thing. And I think Scarlett Johansson in Iron Man 2

is the first one to do it. And then it's like four films a year there's some girl who knows the move of like oh i snap your neck with my legs like it's not as if it presented like it's like oh well you know if you study this uh yeah yeah the other one that i there's a quick digression that i've been trying to figure out actually and maybe you guys can help me as well is um the trope of the abandoned children that are left to form their society on their own and are like half children half whatever because i was watching what are you talking about right now so like mad max uh like the war boys yeah okay so wait what what tangent are we on here because we are barely into this i know i know but

okay so hook hook the lost boys and hook sure skateboarding wearing stuff made of wood and Okay, so. Wait, what tangent are we on here? Because we are barely into this movie. I know, I know. Okay, so Hook. Hook, the Lost Boys and Hook. Sure. Skateboarding, wearing stuff made of wood and sticks and twigs. They have a language and a thing that's built on childhood ideas. Yeah. Similar in the fucking Mad Max. I think it's Thunderdome.

That's not Thunderdome. Yeah, it's Thunderdome. A road warrior with the feral kid? No, it's Thunderdome. Thunderdome you're talking about. When he meets the people that crash in the plane, it's all kids. Sure, sure, sure. And they wear twigs and all this stuff. And then the Swiss Family Robots.

And the Ewoks, I think, are a similar thing. This idea of primitive, childlike, where did that come from? Isn't Lord of the Flies the originator of that? I think it might be, but as it's depicted, it's this weird aesthetic that has now become, it's not steampunk, it's nature punk. But that's why I think it comes from Lord of the Flies, because it's like this weird aesthetic that has now become like, it's not steampunk, it's like nature punk. But that's why I think it comes from Lord of the Flies,

because it's like the island. It is, but it grew into like this weird techie, anyways. What are we talking about right now? You want to think about women who snap men's necks with their thighs, David. That was a great tangent. I'm the host, and I go on tangent. Co-host.

I'm a host. We are both co-hosts. David just put his feminine thighs around the neck of this tangent. My thighs are pretty feminine. Shapely, certainly. Okay, so we're back. We're back. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I had lost the- We're back. They're in the car. Let's look for the history of the Brom on David Sims. It's a good idea, right? No, but the Brom shift's interesting because it moves from what had previously been just bombastic, like what's the most noise you can make, to what's the most ominous, unsettling noise you can make.

It's not about blowing out your eardrums. It's about just throwing you off center. Yes. Which this movie does very effectively. I mean, you're just uncomfortable the whole time. You are. Yes. Which this movie does very effectively. I mean, it's just like all, you're just uncomfortable the whole time. And in relation, in comparison to something like Independence Day, none of the destruction looks cool.

It's all upsetting. Yeah, apart from maybe that one shot of the highway getting turned over while they're driving out, which I think is an extraordinarily well-realized piece of special effect. I think it's awesome, and I also think it's terrifying

and really upsetting to watch. But it's kind of cool. It's the, you know, the, you know. The other moment that I think betrays that idea also is right after, right before this moment when he runs back to his home, he's running past this explosion. Everything's falling away.

And then he gets to his house and his kids are like, what's up? What's going on? Something happening? And it's like, if Tom Cruise just ran from those explosions, like, hey, kids, you could hear that. That's true. The internal logic of these things are, but whatever. It's very fluid. Exactly. I'm not worried about it.

It's fine. It doesn't hurt the movie. So they get in the car. We talked about Dakota's work in that scene. It's wonderful. It's that long shot. And that's very good. And, you know, Chatwin's okay when he's with her, I would say.

Yes. I think he plays awesome. Weirdly, I think she's a strong performer and so she helps him ground himself. I agree. I also think it's just

not what you expect from the movie right then. So it's just like sort of a heartening and interesting thing to see. Yes. And he's got a language with her that he cares about.

Exactly. And the movie's kind of like giving you a sort of like, look, they know they're dead. Because the scene where Chatwin wants to leave where she says like, who's going to keep me safe? The movie doesn't even cut to

Cruise going like, oh, I'm hurt by this. That's an assumed, like we get why she would say that. That's not like, we get why she would think I need Justin Chatwin with me. Because this Tom Cruise guy so far, C- at best, you know, not so

good. He had the solenoid idea. Yes. No dad, no thank you. No dad, no thank you. There's a t-shirt. Okay, so. It's no dad, no thank you, and it's the no thank you is the legs of a woman snapping the neck of the No Dad.

So the car brings them to the most disturbing scene, which is when they hit the crowd, right? Yes, okay, so... Well, yeah, is there anything in between those? Yes, so they drive first, and they're driving through all of the... There's conveniently a perfect car-sized path between all the stopped cars.

Right. He drives up the highway. Right. Like all the cars. He drives up the highway. Right. It's true. Yeah. Of course it would just be, it would be gridlock.

Bumper to bumper. Yeah. But it's fine. It's fine. I'm not worried. There's not a criticism. It's just a funny, whatever.

Then they have a moment that is the moment that you talked about as being one of the most unsettling moments where the daughter's like, I gotta pee. Oh, right. Yeah. That happens right then. Right.

She's like, I gotta pee. And he's like, okay. So they pull over and it's like okay so they pull over that's like farm i also like this because the audience of course is going like oh no this is a terrible idea especially abandoned farm and she's like the amount of tension is crazy the amount of tension is crazy she's stressed out but she's not at his level of stressed out because he

he's stressed out from her what's exactly what's going on. And so he's like, just pee right here. And she's like, I'm not peeing in front of you. That is not going to happen. And so she's walking an uncomfortably long way to the nearest bush. And it's great tension because Tom Cruise keeps going, stop right there. And she's like, no. And she doesn't get how serious this is. And he's like, you're getting too far away. And it's a really good moment of tension. Tom Cruise's performance is great there. Tom Cruise is good and also, but at the same time, he is so wonderfully ineffectual.

I think that's the scene where he goes, I'm making a list of all the times you're not listening to me and I'm going to tell your mother. Like, he has nothing. He has no parent power. But also, it's a crazy wide shot, right? Yes. That holds for a while. So you just see Dakota Fanning running further and further off in the distance, becoming smaller and smaller. And almost every other time the movie has gone this wide, it's to show a crazy ominous force in relation to our characters.

And Tom Cruise sets up, he says a thing that makes you nervous. He's like, someone's going to try to steal our car. Right. And so he's got to stay with the car. Right. And then the farther she gets away, you're like, God, if someone comes or grabs her, like, where is he going to go? Like, how is he going to deal with this? And it gets scary. Then we cut to Dakota

Fanning. She's gone to the woods area, walks down the water where she's going to ostensibly go pee in the river or whatever. We hold on her face and her reaction for a while before we cut to what she's seeing. Right, because then she goes from happy, going to go pee to, uh-oh, oh God, oh God. Is that a body

in the water? Is that a body in the water? We see a body come down the river and we cut to a reverse shot behind her where she's in the foreground, the river's in the back and we see this body.

It's ominous, it's scary, the music hits. But then Spielberg in his infinite Spielbergian touch, like hundreds of bodies then come down the river and it's like,

you have to... I'm trying to think. Then that's not the plane. And it's like, you have to, I'm trying to think, then that's not the plane. When's the plane? That's, so they go from here, then they drive to the house. Yeah.

Right. Right. I'm trying to piece it all together. Kevin and the mom aren't there. Right. Yeah. So then the explosion happens, like this isn't lightning, this is something else.

Right. And in the morning, they walk out of the plane. But so those people, right, so those people aren't from the plane, they're just, they're reporters who went there to cover the plane. No, no, no, no, no. I aren't from the plane, they're just... They're reporters who went there

to cover the plane. No, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I meant the bodies floating down the river. That's just bodies floating down a river. Who knows, right? Who knows? No, because that happens next. The plane's still flying.

Oh, yeah, sure. The plane's still flying. Yeah, the plane crashes. The plane crashes when they're in the house, remember, because there's all the... Oh, right, right, right, yes, yes, yes. But, so then, the moment that happens right after this water scene,

which is a great moment, this is handled perfectly. It's like, it's like a short film. When they say, like, the best scenes are scenes that themselves are a film.

Sure. Girl at the water, a body, oh my God, then hundreds of bodies. It's just like this mixed overwhelm, like, oh, you have no, you're out of control.

They come back. Then they set the seed for the story arc that I don't need or want for this movie. That I would, if I could edit anything out, I would. The military drives by. Oh, right. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I agree. Suddenly the son starts going, take me, take me in a way that's like, wait, what? Now I want to speak. Now, I think there's an interesting thing here, and it plays into the whole 9-11 narrative where he has this sort of unfocused rage. He's a teenager. Yes. I've heard this read on.

And he wants to direct it, you know, against the enemies. And, of course, that's what America was doing right then when this movie's being written and made. We've got to go to war. I think it's not a bad idea. But it's undercooked. Yeah. Chatwin certainly doesn't sell it.

Like, when he's like, let me go with the military, the audience is, certainly my reaction is like, what? They don't need you or want you. And it's also like, wait, what are you going to do? You're going to jump inside and be like, give me a gun? The military still looks professional. They don't look like some ragtag group that would be like, sure, kid, here's a gun. Come on. And this is also the first time in the entire film, up until this point, we've seen him be proactive in any way.

He's mostly like, I don't want to fucking do it I'll write my paper later yeah it's a weird turn for him and the daughter it's like him

dealing with Dakota Fanning just feels like him just relating in one moment rather than him having any burning anger

or desire to fix the situation or whatever and then it's not picked up again until the fucking moment where the movie falls apart

it would almost work better for me if he was like, Dad, let's get in the car, let's follow them, let's help them. If he's trying to lead the charge before this. Instead, he's like, at the side of the road trying to convince the soldiers driving by to let him on

their... It's like, the logic doesn't make sense. At all. It doesn't make sense. And his performance doesn't support it. It seems to exist, like you say, just to plant the seed for him doing it later. That's the scene where she says, who's going to take care of me? Then you go to, then they drive, that's when they then drive the car to the ferry. And I would say Dakota Fanning's performance there grounds that, because that scene did not work for me. But then when she's like, but who's going to take care of me?

It's like, oof, it gets you in the gut again. But here, I want to keep us moving. Plane crash, which you can see if you do the Universal Hollywood studio tour. Yeah, you can go to that set, right? Is it cool? They bring you through on the tram. It's awesome.

It's fucking rad. I mean, it's an incredible set. Did you see the, look up the thing, and they go to Kevin's house, Kevin and mom. Tim.

Yeah. Yes, but yes. Let's call him Kevin. Sure. Kevin and Tim. They go to Kevin and Tim's house, and they sleep there, and Tom Cruise is still a bad dad. He doesn't have any food. They make peanut butter and Tim's house. Yeah. And they sleep there. And Tom Cruise is still a bad dad.

He doesn't have any food. They make peanut butter sandwiches. She's. She throws the peanut butter sandwich at the window. Yeah. I like that. Because she's been. She's allergic.

She's been allergic since birth. Since birth. Since when? Since birth. Yeah. Okay. But that to me is. It's a.

That's a good family. I like that. Yes. The frustration of. The fucking kids need to eat. They don't want to eat. Yes. They're using that. Like tiny power they have, which is to refuse eating.

I also I like this movie's use of sleep and naps in order to jump ahead in time. Right. Yes. So then they sleep and then suddenly the lightning starts happening again. OK. Or so you think. Yeah. And it's the plane crash.

We talked about it guys. Oh right. I guess. I guess also that's where the news. The news people. They give the plane crash. We talked about it, guys. Oh, right. I guess also that's where the news crew thing happens. The news people, they give them some information. So the first time Tom Cruise has a slightly larger sense of what's going on, and she has that fucking zinger about, like, were you in the crash? No.

Would have been a great story. But we have to point out this. I don't love that. I don't either. But this plane crash. If it bleeds, it leads. Yeah. Tom Cruise walks up from the basement.

We think we're inside the house. Camera pulls out. The house is destroyed we don't know what it is we go to a wide shot where we see a giant like 747 strewn about

that shot cost them like it must have cost millions there's a detail in there that I've read that was just getting the old out of commission 747 and transporting it

just the transport cost them $2 million. That's amazing. That makes sense, though. I mean, like, think about it. And then they separated it themselves, and then wherever it was, and then built houses around it. Because the 747 is so gigantic. And this film had a very long shoot.

I think it was like a 70-day shoot or something. 72. Yeah. I think, yeah. It was like, Spielberg shoot or something. 75. Spielberg always says, because he hates the idea that this was a rushed movie, like the sort of press idea. The pre-production was rushed. Exactly.

He's like, look, it was my long shoot. Three months of pre-production. But an interesting thing about this movie is this is the first movie where he embraced George Lucas' pre-vis tech. Yes. Rather than storyboards. I think because he had to. Exactly. There was no other choice. I think Spielberg, who was making Revenge of the Sith, was finally like, look,

it's faster. So that's one reason this could all happen. I think also the fact that Spielberg was able to do it and deliver a movie that felt fully realized from an effects standpoint was cohesive, set a really bad standard in Hollywood where they're like, oh, we can greenlight this and have it out in nine months.

Which is like, Spielberg could do it because he like fucking was ready for it. I think you start to see more and more rush blockbusters after this where it's like pre-visit and we'll figure it out later. Yeah, right, right, right. Pre-visit without a script, essentially. Right. What I like is that it's a set piece so large and not action driven.

No, not at all. You don't even see the plane crash. And that the studio had to go like, listen, we promise we'll use this for something else later. And they turned it into its own exhibit. It's fucking like the centerpiece of the tram ride. Imagine making a movie with a set piece so big that the studio was like, this has to turn into a theme park ride or else.

It's not a good idea. I think it's also helped the false notion that this was the most expensive film ever made when it came out. There was this idea that it would cost $250 million when it didn't. It cost like half that. They were also this idea that it would cost $250 million when it didn't. It cost like half that. They were also very secretive.

It cost $125 million and the big thing was that both Cruise and Spielberg They took points or whatever? Yeah. No upfront salary.

Well, they made a lot of money. A lot of money. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Okay, so now they're on the road. They end up in this town. So anyways,

the son's driving. This is one of the best moments of the film. Agreed. And the son. Okay, so now they're on the road. They end up in this town. So anyways, the son's driving. This is one of the best moments of the film. Agreed. And the son goes like, uh-oh. Dad wakes up, and he's like, okay, keep your foot on the gas, and let's switch. They switch drivers, so Tom Cruise is now driving. Which is a cool moment, because it's one of the first moments where Tom Cruise is like, I'm going to be in charge of this moment.

Why don't you drive? Trust me. I don't have a license. Never stopped you before. Hard cut to seats are flipped from the same angle. It's dark outside. Tom Cruise is sleeping. Right. So now they're driving in and we see that there's like people

everywhere. And it's the way they shoot this is so good and so great. It's like a zombie attack. There's a cool thing that I was reading about how Janusz Kaminski they used like tons of different types of light so that it felt like chaotic. And they felt like they have like flashlight lights,

incandescent fluorescent. So like you have all these mixtures of lights. It just feels unsettling and like chaos is, and all these people are walking and you're seeing Tom Cruise's face, Dakota fan. It's like everyone's face of just like, this is about to be really bad. We can tell Tom Cruise knows the most that it's going to be really bad.

The kids aren't as aware of how bad it's going to be. But I also like that thing that it's going to be really bad the kids aren't as aware of how bad it's going to be but I also like that thing where it's like no one is fucking with the car for a while even though there are lots of people around the car and then some people start mildly fucking with the car and then you just sort of see the very slow

like mob reaction right like the more people start to mess with them the more people are emboldened to mess with them and then when he fires the gun everybody snaps out of it for a second remember when like cruz fires the gun yeah everyone's like yeah whatever you know like it's weird that you would have the shame or whatever like sort of knocked back into you for a second but it because they become like animals and it's such a good performance because tom cruz has had that moment at the beginning he's's like, sorry, sorry, no. No room, no room,

sorry. And she's saying, can't we take them? And he's like, no, no, no. Lock the door. And then the guy's like, you could fit 10 people in there. Like 20, I think he says. He says 20. And in my head, I'm like, 20. I was thinking about it. I was like, you know, anyway. And then there's a moment where someone gets on the hood of the car and then Tom Cruise guns it and then suddenly

it gets more physical and then people start pounding the car and someone breaks the glass and then it gets fucking crazy. The then people start pounding on the car and then someone breaks the glass and then it like gets fucking crazy. The guy is trying to rip the glass open. That's one of the scariest images. His hands are bleeding.

There's a guy grabbing onto the broken glass cutting his hands up trying to get inside. It's really alarming. And then Dakota Fanning is inside the car while the brother

and Tom Cruise are fighting and then people start piling into the car like crushing her and Tom Cruise is seeing this happen and start piling into the car like crushing her and Tom Cruise is seeing this happen and that's when he takes

the gun out and shoots it. Yeah, he shoots the gun to get her, not to get the car. And then the guy puts the gun to his head and he's like, drop the gun.

Tom Cruise does it. I'm taking the car. I'm taking the car and Tom Cruise is like, give me my daughter. I need my daughter. I just want my daughter. I just want my daughter.

I just want my daughter. Which is like, that's one of the best moments because character change stuff happens. He's putting his family first. He's like, he is, but I mean also, I like, that's one of the best moments because character change stuff happens. He's putting his family first. He's like. He is,

but I mean also I do think it's one of those things where he realizes like, yeah. Yes. I'm not going to win. I'm not going to win. And then you see the car

being consumed basically by the mob. And then the scariest moment is that they go inside this diner. The mob consumes the car and then you just see this like, this actor gives one of the best performances. He's like some weird dumpy looking dude that like walks up, sees then you just see this, like, this actor gives one of the best performances. He's, like, some weird, dumpy-looking dude that, like, walks up, sees the gun Tom Cruise dropped, picks it up, looks at it,

and has this moment, and we cut back to the diner. And then in the background, we're talking to the diner. Through the windows of the diner. Through the windows of the diner, you see, like, the mob of people on the car. The car starts pulling away, and then all of a sudden, you see that guy wearing the yellow jacket that we know just picked up the gun, walks towards the car. Bam, bam, bam, bam. You see the person wearing the yellow jacket that we know just picked up the gun, walks towards the car. Bam, bam, bam, bam.

You see the person in the car die, and then turns into chaos. And you're like, oh my God, society is falling apart. This is it. This is it. This is the end times. It's great. It is great. Yeah.

And then we move to an orderly boarding of the ferry. To me, this is the line. Yes. Yeah, because I was going to say like it's an odd shift. I agree. Because after that, you feel like great, like chaos has taken hold. And then we cut to. She runs into, is it Jodie Benson?

Yeah, I believe that is Jodie Benson. Voice of Ariel, the Little Mermaid. Really? Place's next door neighbor. I believe that it's either Jodie Benson or Julie Warner. I get both of them confused. I think it's next door neighbor. I believe it's either Jodie Benson or Julie Warner. I get both of them confused. I think it's Jodie Benson. Anyway, carry on.

But to me, this is the moment where it feels like we hopped the tracks from this grounded film about people observing society collapsing in the wake of disaster into an action movie. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that the- And there's a couple other moments later on that I think return back, but this is the line to me where it's like the plot and we gotta move forward

because we're running out of time but I think that the harbor the ferry scene is good the ferry scene is good really it's intense

and well done and like I like the escalation of it it's just neither of the two actresses I thought it was it's Lisa Ann Walter who looks like Jodie Benson

and Jodie Warner but to me what's different about it is that now Tom Cruise, they're the main characters again. If they first have this movie they wouldn't have made it onto the ferry. But here it's like oh they're the last ones to make it

and you're like okay now it's getting a little fantastical, a little bit like Tom Cruise is the hero. He becomes Mark Wahlberg in Patriot State where it's like how do you make one fictitious character who's at the right place at the right time always surviving.

Experience all these things. So anyways. Patriot State shout out four months after it came out. So then anyways fast forward they get on the ferry they get across

this I think the ferry scene is impressive because it's that thing where the soldiers then have to the sight of the tripod makes everyone go from

orderly boarding of the ferry to madness. The soldiers have to, just the sight of the tripod makes everyone go from orderly boarding of the ferry to madness. Yes. The soldiers have to keep them back and you're thinking like, but these soldiers are gonna die. Like if I was a soldier, I'd just get on the ferry.

But it feels like fucking Titanic. Exactly. Yes, it's the Titanic moment and they have an awesome shot where it's the ferry and everyone looking up and then on top of the hill the tripod.

Yes. It's like so well composed. It's a great shot. It's so cool. But then they take down the ferry anyway. They take down the ferry. The thing comes from the water which is sort of cool. It's so well composed. It's so cool. But then they take down the ferry anyway. They take down the ferry. The thing comes from the water, which is sort of cool. It is cool. We forgot to establish that. The news reporter

shows in the tape and shows specifically that the things are coming down through the lightning and going into the ground to awaken ships. That's their transportation to get to the ship. I don't think we needed any of that. No, apparently that was literally just Steven Spielberg being like, it's boring to do an alien invasion. I want it to we needed any of that. No, apparently that was literally just Steven Spielberg being like, it's boring to do an alien invasion.

I want it to be that they were already here. He wants to flip the visual iconography and not have them come from above. It makes not much sense. No, it's so convoluted. You can have some idea of like an ancient aliens kind of idea where it's like they seeded the earth

and they left these things there. Which I like that. To turn us and, you know, to breed us to be food, essentially. We were like a food farm. You know, sort of like the Jupiter ascending or, you know, it's not completely outlandish. They were waiting until there were enough of us that it was worth coming back.

Because, like, what we learn is all they're doing is harvesting our bodies and turning us into red weeds and drinking blood. I just don't think we need this still image of, like, the alien waving at us in the lightning to be like, hey, this is how we got into the ground. I agree. I mean, well, I don't think you need the news reporter scene at all. It is interesting that Janusz Kaminski, who's famous for, like, hey, this is how we got into the ground. I agree. I mean, well, I don't think you need the news reporter scene at all. It is interesting that Janusz Kaminski, who's famous for his fucking pools of light and everything,

this is the one movie where they use light as a signifier for danger, where it's like the flashes of the lightning, even when they're in the car. It's like anytime there's a bright flash of light, it's not a stylistic flourish. It's like this is something bad happening. Yes.

The darkness is safe in this movie. So anyways, they end up on a hill, and then the tripods are fighting the military, and then there's this moment where the son opts to join the military. Sort of a dragged-down moment. Dad, let me do this. Then Dakota's staying by herself. Right. The idea is that Cruz has his hands on Chatwin.

Dakota's like 50 paces behind him, and these other people are going to take her because they're afraid that she's been abandoned. Come with us. You can't be alone. And he makes this, like Spielberg really concentrates on him letting go of Chatwin. As the army crawls away. It's a very- It's odd. The performance is a little-

It doesn't match. It's visually cool that there's something happening over this hill and we can't see it. The tanks are rolling in. There's missiles being being fired we don't know what it is you just see light and flashes and noise now famously they were really secretive about this movie like it was like top secret everyone was like is there some crazy twist they didn't show the aliens no one knew anything the poster was just like an old-fashioned like ben-hur like war of the world's block letters like like it's a statue. Right.

So everyone thought, like, are there some weird surprising elements? The movie's pretty straightforward in terms of plotting, right? It is. It's very similar to H.G. Wells' novel The War of the Worlds. Yes. It just made contemporary and set in America instead. Yeah. A couple characters get merged into one character.

Right. That's about it. But famously at the press junket, when they would usually show the full movie, and this was another movie that was sort of a turning point of like, don't even let the press see it. We don't want anything leaking out. The actors only get their scene. Spielberg was obsessed with this for this movie alone.

Which is like Marvel uses all of that shit now. Sure, sure. But anyway, what's your point? At the press junket, they only showed this scene, which is a weird scene to lead with. They showed this scene that feels very Spielberg-y. If you only saw this scene, you'd be like, I guess this is the whole movie. It's the father struggling with the son.

It's the vague threat over the hill. But then you watch the movie, and the first half is like... It doesn't have a huge amount of bearing on the overall film. No, and it doesn't feel earned. It's just to kind of get Chatwin out of the action. It doesn't even really have a huge emotional beat. Not at all. The problem is also and it doesn't feel earned. It's just to kind of get Chatwin out of the action. And it doesn't even really have a huge emotional beat. Not at all. And the problem is also the logic doesn't make sense. It's like,

what are you gonna do? You're gonna run unarmed behind these tanks that are clearly losing? Like, I don't get what the kids... Again, if it was like there was some ragtag group of people that are like, grab a gun! Help us! But instead it's like tanks driving and he's like trying to run after

them like a dog in a way that's like, I don't get what his idea of what was going to take place was. It's this one scene that suddenly becomes a lot more allegorical and impressionistic. Yeah. Whereas the rest of the movie up until this point has been very literal, very visceral. And very hyper-real.

Yes. I agree. And this is where the movie gets not that. He chooses to put a fanning and with that decision I feel like the film also starts becoming visually much more

straightforward. Like say for some of the basement stuff I think it starts getting a lot less washed out. The colors become like a lot more conventional. The grain structure

I think even goes away. You want to know why that is I think? Because we enter CG world. Yes. Okay. Alright. You know what I mean? From here on out, there's a lot more CG. A lot of ships, a lot of aliens, a lot of probes. Okay.

So, anyways, this next part, this next part, I think, the plot stuff, to me, doesn't matter as much. Well, the next part is Ogilvy, right? The next part's Tim Robbins? Right. They get in a basement, and for 20 minutes, we're in the same place. After this movie's been moving so breakneck from one phase. Yeah.

I feel like already the prevailing narrative on Spielberg was like, he really struggles with his final thirds right now. He doesn't stick to the landing. People were really saying, like, hey, man, I thought AI, Minority Report, and Catch Me If You Can all had bad final thirds. Disagree with them on those. Agree. I agree with them on this one.

I agree. Yeah. It's bad with them on those. Agree. I agree with them on this one. I agree. It's bad. I was excited. This is Tim Robbins coming off his ill-deserved Oscar for Mystic River. That's another factor at play. He's given his Mystic River performance times two or whatever. And he was a runaway train throughout the entire season. It was like, Robbins is just cleaning up. And he got all the awards

and then I feel like two months after he won, everyone was like, wait, is that performance bad? Everyone was like, he's the worst actor in Mystic River. It was like an immediate backlash. It is easily the worst performance in the film. But he swept up that season uncontested with good competition. He won every single award, and then the backlash was immediate. So by the time this came out, people were like,

oh, fuck, he's doing the same thing. And you get the sense that he was just like, oh, it's a Tom Cruise, Steven Spielberg, War of the Worlds. Assumed it would be played at hook or close encounters level. And then just gave that performance without any awareness of what the rest of the movie was and why it was hit. Why isn't Spielberg toning him down? What is this character? This character is essentially someone who's decided that, like, you know, I mean, it's sort of, again, like a very vague 9-11 or war on terror mentality.

Where he's like, you know, they may have gotten us, but we're going to get them. Like, we're not going to let this happen. Like, they're occupying us and we have to resist. He's a guy in a wife beater with a shotgun. Wearing just a hood. In a ruined basement. Like, this is not a guy. It doesn't make any fucking sense except that, quote, he's crazy, end quote.

Okay, leave. Yeah. But he's not crazy in a way that's scary to watch. No. It's just like, just get away from this guy. He's a problem. He's silly. And I think the logic maybe of what was on the page versus how it was executed is a little different

because the idea is that they take refuge in this guy's basement, and then they think that this guy's trying to get to safety, and they learn out that, no, this guy's trying to camp out here to fight them from the inside. He's like, Tom Cruise, you and me,

let's fight together. He's like digging a tunnel. Yeah, the problem is it's not like a bunker that you would feel safe in. It's just the bottom floor of a house

and it feels like the kind of thing where it's like, Tom Cruise, wouldn't you just keep running? Why would you think that you're safe here?

This is in the book. It doesn't feel safe. At least in some form. They combine two characters, but there is this sort of passage. And the book and the original movie, I think, has the whole scene with the eye snake thing, which I think is fun-ish. It's him hitting one of his greatest hits.

It's him playing the hit single of the raptors in the kitchen, Minority Report with the spiders. Yes, which is a much better version um but i think that here's when it starts getting into like okay we're no longer in

this like hyper real look at what it's like like there's a moment when like they're hiding behind a mirror right and then dakota fanning slips and the thing

sees her foot yeah and then it goes around the corner and then it's just the boot and they're gone it's like wait so now they're doing like madcap. It's Spielberg clever.

I'm going to speak up for this scene. Okay. For something about the scene and I like the aliens, which I know JD doesn't like. I don't know what your take on the aliens is because we see the aliens. I'm maybe between the two of you.

I would rather you didn't see the aliens that haven't been said. I like the way the aliens are executed. I love how inquisitive and playful they are. I like the thing with the bicycle. I like the thing with the bicycle. I like the way that the eye moves. I like the sort of weird just reversal of them

where it's like, yeah, when they're in their ships, they're just an occupying brutal force. But yeah, there is something. It's not even likable. It's just creepy. They're like weirdable it's just it's creepy they're like you know weird little fish people that come out and they're like hmm interesting you know i don't yeah and it goes like and they're like oh yep time to clock off get back in the tripod yeah yeah better suck up some more human blood yeah um i like that i it it unnerves me i think

that they are fine i don't like cg aliens i don't like seeing think that they are fine. I don't like CG aliens. I don't like seeing the motion of CG aliens. I don't like when it's like, oh, they have to have four legs and walk like this and be really slender and slimy. They have three legs. They're tripods. They're tripod creatures. Right, of course.

I don't like the slender, shiny CG alien thing. I wish we had seen them less. I really like their faces because I think a lot of them a lot there was sometimes where they had some practical faces but I just for the most part don't I don't need this I don't need you to show off how these things move

and walk in CG especially when it's like shiny body full it just feels like you're not gonna land it so don't do it my two favorite executions of an alien species in recent cinema history and I would just say like 21st century

as recent cinema history are Arrival and Edge of Tomorrow which I both think make the smart decision to like move as far away from humanoid as possible not give them faces so you can't read emotion onto them,

and they're just weird, interesting organisms. I love the alien design in Edge of Tomorrow so much. I think it's a cool design. That is so frightening when you see them. Yeah. Attack the block. That's the third one. I said two and then immediately thought,

actually, there's three. That's the third one. Attack the block. You don't see them, and when you do, it's hard to see them. What a great movie that is. But I think all three of those movies do that. Such a good movie. In Edge of Tomorrow, them and when you do it's hard to see them what a great movie that is but I think all three of those movies do that

such a good movie in Edge of Tomorrow they move so fast it's hard to see them in Arrival they're usually behind fog in Attack the Block they're mostly

at night in the darkness right like in all three they totally avoid any sort of recognizable face humanoid forms

you know so it just becomes like a weird force and I think the other one is Paul that's the fourth one is Paul. That's the fourth one. One of the worst films ever made. One of like quietly the worst films ever made. Hey, that guy's got a weird career.

Greg Mottola? Greg Mottola, yeah. But the alien loves smoking weed and has a lot of funny jokes about inappropriate... Yeah, David, he's chill. But he's a chill alien. But David, he's a chill alien. There are a few moments in this basement scene that are cool and rad. Isolated moments.

The moment when Tom Cruise is like, if you have anything to say, you can say it to me and never speak to my daughter. Good little moment. It implies a lot more without being sinister. Because that could have been a very pedophile-y whatever. It implies all of that with just a line and a performance by Tom Cruise. I think the shot, the POV shot of him putting the blindfold on her. Yep.

Yes. I think that's good. It's good. Even though I don't, again, think it totally earns the murder thing. No. It just doesn't feel like it has much of an effect on Tom Cruise. But I like that moment in and of itself because there's a hard cut to you're looking at Dakota looking straight at you.

I'm with you. And you hear the voice saying like, okay. Yes. And then what happens next? I mean, next they kill him. They murder him. Right, they murder him. And they just leave. Then, no, there's just one more set piece, which is, you know, them

getting kidnapped by the tripod. The moment when Dakota Fanning is missing, though, is pretty good. I guess so. I like it. He runs outside, and it's like, oh, this thing. She gets grabbed. The person that he chose to protect, he has lost her.

I think it's good. I mean. And the visual. The studio. Obviously, they shot this part in a studio where it's like, the red everywhere. And it's like, just the look is so scary. When he exits the house, and it's another. It's quiet.

The veins are there. Another nice, like, you know, way for them to advance time a little bit. Yeah. So it's like, when he comes out,

the world is just covered in these red weeds. Yeah. And it's so quiet, and it's just, like, so creepy. It's the end of the world. It feels like the...

Oh, it feels like... And now I'm realizing something that they... Stranger Things, the whatever other universe thing. The Upside Down. Upside Down? Yeah. Where it's like this... More like Lamer

Things. Okay. Is it more like Lamer Things? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah, it's interesting, but then we get to... Then we get to my least favorite part of the movie. They're both caught in the net. They're in this cage underneath the ship.

It feels very similar to Teddy and David in the net under the moon ship in AI. In the moon thing. There's a similar thing where the ship collects robots and they're all in this cage underneath it. I do like Dakota Fanning has shut down. Yes. Like her brain no working no more.

She's just catatonic. And that is a cool moment of tension where you see a person get sucked up into this like very organic like. Yeah. A butthole. A butthole. It's a but.

It's rose budding. What I like is that it feels organic and it feels like, ooh, you don't want to be pulled in there because then you just get drained. I'm fine with it. I guess I just, this set piece just.

Yes. I don't like the set piece. I also don't like that they're in a. Oh, look who finds the vest full of grenades. I don't like that they're inside a cage outside of it. I guess I just, this set piece just... Yes, I don't like the set piece. I also don't like that they're in a... Oh, he finds the vest full of grenades. I don't like that they're inside a cage outside of it. Yeah. Because also, the bars are wide enough that you can slip through it easily. And I'm like, wouldn't... I mean, I don't want to... I don't mean this in a

crass, I'm not doing a bit, but it's like, if you're trying to indict a 9-11 thing... Right. Don't you have them jumping out? Wouldn't you... If you're in this thing and you're seeing people get pulled up people would be jumping out of this thing. It feels like the movie has dropped that at this point. It feels like it makes a second act shift into trying to represent the chaos of should we go to war?

Should we fight? But it doesn't do it well. But the thing is, maybe it's kept maybe it's Spielberg or someone, but essentially it's like, no, we need a punch the air moment here. We need a hero moment. And then what I don't like... Because we've decided to stick with the ending, which is just...

And then they got sick, and that was that. You know, like... So Tom Cruise defeats this ship, but he didn't defeat the whole race. The rest of the race just died. But at least you got, like, a, hey, you know. Right, and that's what I don't like. He turns into a superhero here as he finds grenades.

Yeah. And then... The army guy's like, I got your back. And then he gets the attention of the thing. The thing sucks him up. What I don't like again is, we see someone get sucked up into the machine and get turned into blood.

And then Tom Cruise gets sucked up and then everyone tries to save him. It's a group effort in the cage. And I'm like, yo, how come you guys didn't try to save the first guy? Well. Tom Cruise got a star power.

I think it's, yeah, true. But also, the military guy sees that Tom Cruise has the grenade belt. Not until after, I don't think. I think he does, but it's a little confusing. It doesn't matter.

I mean, I think that's the implication. But also, if you saw he had the grenade, wouldn't you be like, oh good, this guy's going to, while he dies, he's going to save the rest of us. Right, suicide mission. You wouldn't be like, let's save this guy. You'd be like, get that guy in there. Let's make sure he gets the grenade. Push him in.

It's a good little here when he has the pin. Sure. It's great, but it's a different movie. I agree. I agree. It's a completely different movie. And then the thing explodes, and then we don't- And they go to Boston.

But then you don't sell me on the thing collapsing. It's like, you guys all fell from 100 feet in a metal cage. All right, JD, you're being nitpicky now. And then also simultaneously- No, but it's totally- You're being nitpicky. No, the movie is so real for the first half. Agreed. And then it turns into like- No. No, the movie is so real for the first half. Agreed.

And then it turns into like. No, no, no. We have been forgiving the movie. Don't wag your finger at me, David. I'm wagging my

finger. Oh, boy. We have been forgiving the movie for the first half. Like, you know, the van just drives up the highway.

Sure, sure, sure. You can forgive that shit. I don't care about them surviving when the tripod falls down. I just don't need the tripod thing at

all. That's what I'm saying. I'm just saying so many aspects of it to me are like, just don't do it. I agree. Don't do it. I don't need the tripod thing at all. That's what I'm saying. I'm just saying so many aspects of it to me are like, just don't do it. I agree. Don't do it.

I don't like that him pulling off his hero moment of making the butthole swallow the grenades is simultaneous with the aliens also catching a cold and dying. Agreed. That's like, here's your victory, and also your victory was the last victory we needed because everything else has been solved by itself. I almost just want,

because I think it's good that Tom Cruise gets the tiny hero moment of noticing that the birds are landing on the tripods later. Oh, right. Where he's like, the force field's down. Look, the birds. Shoot. That's a believable hero moment for a blue-collar guy. And then the army, you know, does their stuff.

He just noticed. And I think the ending of the movie is actually nice. I just think this movie would be a goddamn masterpiece if that middle, you know, bit that we've just discussed was just different in some way. Okay, so I don't like the ending with the brownstone. I like the ending with the brownstone because I like the ending with the brownstone

if Tom Cruise is pretty ruined. Which I don't think he sells. No, that's the problem. But I'm saying if you change that, this bit that we're talking about, then maybe it would work, right? I agree. And my other Justin with the brownstone moment. Sun is not there. Yeah, 100%.

The sun being there just becomes like... Guys, of course. Are you fucking crazy? Nobody on Earth, 100 bajillion people would watch this movie. Every single one surely would come out and be like, why is the sun there? David, calm down. It's the worst thing in the world.

David's hand motions there are Muppet-esque. You're acting angry at us for bringing it up. I hate it. No, no, I'm not mad at you guys. You guys are great. Oh, I love you. I'm so mad at the movie for doing that. It's like, who does it help?

Nobody. Who is happy about it? Justin Chatwin's agent. Is even he happy? Is even Justin Chatwin's agent happy? Yeah, because his agent wants two war, two worlds. Yeah, right.

Sure, fair enough. They're back. They were even deeper underground. No, it's like, who walks out in there and is like, good movie. You know what I really loved was that the sun didn't die.

That we didn't. That it's never explained to us why the sun is somehow fine. The sun gets to Boston. Before them. He successfully fought with the military. They were done. They were like, can we drop you off at a brownstone? He walks over the hill into the apocalypse, let's be clear.

It's not like a battle. And there's no ambiguity. It's the hill into the apocalypse, let's be clear. Right. It's not like a battle. Yeah. And there's no ambiguity. It's the end of the world. Yes. And when we, you know, Cruz is in that basement for like a couple days. Yeah. So it's not like the aliens are getting sick.

Okay, so what is Spielberg trying to do in this ending? I believe he's trying to do The Searchers. I think this is his homage to The Searchers where it it's like, this guy's been on this crazy mission to retrieve the daughter, and he brings him home, and then nothing's better. He's alone, and you mirror the same shot in The Searchers, where John Wayne walks out and, you know, goes off into the distance. Right. There's this lonely guy. He restored someone else's family. Yes. Right? And there's the whole thing in The Searchers, the sort of subtext that perhaps he's the biological father of's family. Yes. Right? And there's the whole thing in The Searchers, the sort of subtext that perhaps he's the biological father of Natalie Wood.

Right. I think in this, it's the idea of this movie's been him trying to reconnect with his children and learn to protect them. And at the end, he's still not their dominant parent. They're more comfortable with Kevin. They're home. And Miranda Otto. They're home.

And Tom Cruise doesn't walk into the building with them. He doesn't. That's what I like about it. And I want him to be, yeah. I think they need to do three things. One is Justin Chatwin isn't there into the building. He doesn't. That's what I like about it. And I want him to be, yeah. I think they need to do three things. One is, Justin Chatwin isn't there. He died. He died in a massive explosion.

Or not. Just, who knows? No, he's dead. He died. He won his battered body. I think number two is- The last shot is at his gravestone. Then they go to his gravestone,

which has somehow been already done. It fades into old Private Ryan at his gravestone which has somehow been already done it fades into old Private Ryan at the gravestone looking at Justin Chatwin's burial site number two is I nailed that one number two is I think you don't just end

the movie with Tom Cruise standing outside of the brownstone you end the movie with Tom Cruise walking away that's probably fair I would do that too but I mean and, and right, and I feel like And number three is you sell that arc more up until that point. There's a movie where when he kills Tim Robbins, it's the right thing to do, but his daughter

can't look at him the same way. The movie botches that emotional beat. And he's been ruined by it too. And like, so when you do that, you know, you could even have it where it's like that happens, they exit, the aliens are getting sick, and you know when you do that, you know, you could even have it where it's like that happens. They exit. The aliens are getting sick. Yeah.

And, you know, you have that moment where it's finally like, you know, you see the tripod go down and it coughs. I do like when it coughs up all the orange soda and the alien falls down. But, yeah. But the idea is at this point she can't, you know. Yeah. They've been ruined as the world has been ruined. I think it's essentially two movies the first half is just this like almost like docudrama like this is just what it would feel

like if you were in the middle of this and you had no power and you were just anybody and then halfway through it starts acting like it's paying off an emotional like distant father it's it's the you know the spielberg divorce kind of cloud that hangs over everything except from the perspective of the father who's desperately trying to hold on to his family. Except the first half of the movie wasn't that. And aesthetically what was interesting was just the set pieces in the moment.

What did Tom Cruise see in this? I have no idea. Because again, if the movie ends that way, maybe I can see Tom Cruise being fired up about it. Right. Well, the last line should have been Tom Cruise walking away and then he stops. So he gives a laugh. Looks just left the camera as he says, I guess they're wrong when they said this was a mission impossible. That would be good.

And then he pulls off his mask and he's Ethan Hunt. He's Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yes. I would like it if he went like looked at them. He's like, then he was like, Justin Hoffman. Yes. I would like it if he went, like, looked at them and he was like, and he was like, Justin Chatwin, how did you get here? Tell me everything. I was waiting for that, too, of like, what's the story, man?

Can we get 20 minutes? What kind of a fucking crazy time did you have getting here? And also, like, him being like, did he tell you that I had to fight these guys? And she, oh, my, it was crazy. I killed Tim Robbins. He's like, this could be a movie. What I just went through could be a movie. This could be a movie.

And Justin Chatwin's like, hey, I wanted to kill Tim Robbins after he won that Oscar. He does say that because Justin Chatwin was very vocal at the time about that. But I do think it would be good

if every movie ended with the person who's the star of the movie saying, this could be a movie. Yeah. Just sitting down. This was crazy. This was a really crazy thing

to happen to me. We should sell this as a movie. Hey guys, J.Dd amato from the future here uh the ben ducer was kind enough to edit this audio file into the episode because i just needed to come clean about something coming up you're going to hear me read a list of the notes that i took during the movie and one of them that i mentioned offhandedly is tim robbins great i believe and believe. And immediately Griffin and David jump on me to say that he wasn't great. And in a pretty cowardly way, I immediately roll over. And I think I even claim that I misspoke about my note, or my note was written in a way that actually means the opposite thing.

And it's been weighing heavily on my conscience, so I just needed to come clean here to you guys. I thought Tim Robbins was great in this movie. I get why people might not like him, because it's a tonal shift. But I don't think it was performance. I think his performance is appropriately creepy and weird and out there. And I think there are some story things that are wonky about this sort of character and all this stuff. But I don't think that's on Tim Robbins.

And to be honest, I let the peer pressure get to me. Sometimes David and Griffin can be so sure about things about movies that me, even though I work in this industry, an adjacent industry, I can be convinced that I don't know what I'm talking about and I just wanted to agree with them. But I'm taking a stand. I'm not letting the peer pressure get to me. I was a coward when we recorded this, and I let everyone jump on Tim Robbins, and I should have defended him. I thought Tim Robbins was fun in this movie.

I get if you're not into the performance, but I thought it was fun. I think this movie's fun, and I just had to come clean. David and Griffin probably will never hear this because I don't think they'll listen back to the episode. So as far as they know, I agreed with them, but I'm here to tell you guys that I don't agree and that I'm here to defend Tim Robbins. And I'm embarrassed about my cowardly behavior coming up, but I wanted you guys to know the truth. Anyways, thanks Ben D Ducer, for putting that in there. And listen, guys, we can also come to peer pressure,

but we all have the chance to make it right. Now, back to the episode. JD brought notes. Do you have anything you want to cover on your note sheet? There's one big, big I mean my notes are cried at first chaos cried at boat CG aliens bad

Tim Robbins is great Tim Robbins is not great what's that Tim Robbins is not great not in this movie to me it was oh you just like Tim Robbins my note was

Tim Robbins is great when he comes on screen and then that sure then it all goes away yeah I mean this is the thing I love Tim Robbins in so many other comes on screen, and then it all goes away. I mean, this is the thing. I love Tim Robbins.

My big note was Shawshank is one of the best performances of that decade. So great in Shawshank. So great in Hudsucker Proxy. Oh, yes. So wonderful in The Player. Like, so many great Tim Robbins performances out there. Yeah, I mean, Bull Durham, motherfucker. Tucker, A Man and His Dream?

He's not in that. No, Jeff Bridges is in that. High Fidelity, he's unbelievable. My final note. Very good in that. Patchou Jeff Bridges is in that. High Fidelity. He's unbelievable. Very good at that. Patchouli Stink. Get it out of his store. My final note, which I wonder if you guys agree.

I have a whole theory that I want to get into. Okay. Bad credits. Agreed. Odd credits. Really bad. What's with those?

The movie ends, they cut to it, and it is a silver glimmering font over a starry background it's odd it says written and directed by Steven Spielberg

or like directed by Steven Spielberg yeah yeah right cause this movie's bookended by fucking Morgan Freeman Freeman narrating literally reading from

like Orson Welles' text cells in water yeah yeah right I think it's from the book actually yeah it is but then

if they just cut to almost like a more subtle Spielbergian cut to black yeah directed by but instead it's from the book actually. Yeah, it is. But then, if they just cut to almost like, a more subtle Spielbergian cut to black, Yeah. Directed by, but instead it's like, it's like, 2005 era,

Spider-Man style, ending credits thing. Or even like, the opening credits of like, the Richard Donner Superman, where it's like, Starry Night, and these big like,

shiny letters that are like, flying towards you. Yeah. Because I have, one of my big theories about, I wonder if I had mentioned it on, this podcast before, I'm sure I have. Is that have one of my big theories about, I wonder if I had mentioned it on this podcast before. I'm sure I have. One of the most important moments in any movie is

The first credit. The moment it cuts to black. Yeah. There's those five seconds. Yes. Where those five seconds determine if it was a good or bad movie. And that's why I think Netflix I agree.

Netflix is one of the, basically like done one of the greatest crimes against film. Yes, they have. It cuts to black, and then suddenly it recommends fucking. You're in the catharsis. Yeah, and then it cuts to, it's like, don't you want to watch The Ridiculous Six? No. It would be like if you.

I want to see what the key grip was. Yeah. It would be like if you just romanced your love. Yes. And then the moment. Wow, JD, tell us more. The post-coital, the first post-coital moment, it was someone being like, hey, do you want to do that again or do you want to do something else?

What do you want to do right now? It's like, no, let me sit in this moment for just a moment. I love that moment after sex where it's like, who's going to say the first thing and what's it going to be? You said sex in a really. Because I don't like talking about sex. Also, nobody wants to hear us talk about this on this podcast. I know.

That's why... Let's get the metaphor out of the way. That's why I said it in that voice because I started saying it and I was like, wait, no, I don't want to describe myself having sex in any way. Guys, we've been on mic for a while. Okay. We've got to play the box office game. Do we have anything else that we want to talk about?

I think you're a hundred and... Look, the worst crime this film perpetuates is Justin Chatwin's life at the end of the movie. Second worst crime, probably the credits. I just. Third Tim Robbins. Netflix, just have a feature where you can delay it the amount of time that you want. But maybe Tim Robbins being bad in this movie was good because everyone agreed he was bad and then weirdly that was the end of his career.

Yeah. Like, am I wrong? I mean, obviously. Some solid supporting performances. I wanted to come back in good form. Maybe, I guess it was the end of that thing he's doing in there. I also read something about this film that the costume team created 60 different versions of his leather jacket. Yeah.

Yeah, I read that too. That's fucking insane. What are they? Yeah. They also said there's this thing where Dakota Fanning's character has a unicorn purse that's tied to her jacket. That's the one semblance of comfort for her. She holds onto it through all this chaos

and I don't think you ever clearly see the unicorn purse. I don't remember that thing at all. But I read two paragraphs of the costume designer talking about that as a decision. Well, I mean, good for that costume designer. Same as the purse, so was Justin Chow in Junko Jeans. Yes. Yes. Okay.

Box office game. This movie came out the Independence Day weekend of 2005. July 1st, 2005. It was a four-day weekend. I was living in Boston that summer. I was interning

at the Boston Phoenix and I would see a lot of movies by myself. It was 2005? 2005, that summer. I saw like every movie released that summer by myself at the AMC Fenway, and this was one of them. I was working as a counselor in training at Bucks Rock Creative and Performing Arts Camp,

and I had to be taken out by someone else's parent to go see this movie at the New Milford Theater. Did you see it by yourself or just with the parent? I saw it with a group of people. I think the parent dropped us off, and then we got lunch somewhere else and then we saw the movie. I was 19. You were probably like 16. I would have been 16, yeah. What about you, JD?

That was before my senior year of high school. And I was at probably, I think that was probably the summer where I was at the New York University Summer High School Filmmakers Workshop. Hey. Meeting people who would become my friends and collaborators for the rest of my life. You know I did that program the following summer. I did it in the animation side. In the animation side? Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's when I thought I was going to be an animator.

You know I was an animator at NYU. Yeah, I know that. Who's your professor in that? Matt. What's his last name? Enough, enough. Basta, basta. Did you meet your friends and collaborators forever at this summer workshop? No, but I did meet Chris Cookson, who's a very loyal blankie, has written into our show before, avid listener, great guy.

But other than that, I've never talked to anyone else. I like David brushing this off. How about we have another reference to when you lived in England, David? Why don't you humble brag some more? I didn't mention living in England once this whole episode. I know, I'm just saying that's a... I was living in Boston when this film came out. David's always bragging about living in England and having a girlfriend.

One of the elements of this podcast is you describing exactly where in England something was. It's an element in my damn life. I mean, that is... Anyway. Box office game. I believe this film makes just about $100 million in the four days. It made $112 million in its opening weekend. $250 total?

Yeah, sorry. It got $250 total. No, sorry. $234 total. Oh. $591 worldwide. So it essentially did 50% of its domestic in the first four days. Yeah, it opened huge.

Yeah. That's a good point because in the next weekend, Fantastic Four comes out. Yep. Oh, my God. I forgot about that world actually it's a fair drop 53 drop it's not like a terrible drop no it makes 30 million you know that july 4th corridor was its main area at the shine for sure and it did its job i mean it's a nice big opening 112 mil now because of uh both uh spielberg and and Cruise giving up their upfront salary.

Right. I believe Cruise makes $100 million off this movie. Yeah, I think this was the apex of him making ridiculous amounts of money. And Entertainment Weekly, and this is at the height of the Cruise, like, wait, is this guy fucking weird? Backlash runs a cover story that's a picture of Tom Cruise smiling, and it says, is this guy worth $100 million? And I think, like, that's sort of the final brick in the

Jenga tower is like wait he made that much money after like acting this weird and like being kind of miscast isn't this when he then like his sister is his like publicist or something he like Cruise Wagner dissolves and Paramount kind of severs ties with him

right after Mission Impossible 3 it's only a quasi Dreamworks movie because Paramount releases of severs ties with him right after Mission Impossible 3. We should say this is actually it's only a quasi DreamWorks movie because Paramount releases it theatrically. DreamWorks has the... And Paramount did almost all of Cruise's films. So, okay.

Okay. Number one, War of the Worlds. Number two, it is a sequel... Sorry, sorry. It's a reboot of a franchise that had been number one

for the previous two weeks at the box office. It's a reboot of a franchise? Yes. It has made $154 million. Batman Begins? Correct. I saw it like three times in theaters.

Cruise and Holmes. I saw it like three times in theaters. Still my favorite of the Nolan films. The Nolan Batman films, I'll say. I saw that way late. Interesting. I miss movies and never, I just assume I've missed that. You just forget it.

Right, right, right, right. Batman Begins. Somewhat of a well-remembered 2005 movie, unlike War of the Worlds. I feel like they're from different eras of cinema, personally. Well, one's probably at the tail end of one and one's at the start of another. That's what I'm saying. It's a transition. It's like they're the same year, but man, it feels like Batman Begins is the beginning

of a new style. Passing of the twinge. I would say so, although it's feeding off a certain... Yes, definitely, definitely. But Nolan kind of becomes the blockbuster filmmaker that everyone else is trying to copy rather than Spielberg. For sure. Because Spielberg's now transitioning into like,

maybe I want to make more dramas. Spielberg's like, yeah, I'm just going to do my own thing over here. No one bother me. Right, everything's haunted. And if I make a bad movie, like, don't worry about it. I'd like a lot of movies to take place in Europe. Yeah, and like, I don't really care about Oscars, so give me one if you want.

I'm not going to campaign. Number three at the box office? It's a much discussed, it's a film that is, in my opinion, truly bad, but it was a huge box office hit, not only because it's an action film starring two famous people, but because of the off-screen drama. Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Off-screen drama. Yes. Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Monsieur and Madame Smith. Doug Liman. Mm-hmm. Limania. Yeah, Doug Liman probably is the most successful film, and probably his worst, in my opinion. I think that movie is god-awful. Doug Liman, who recently beat J.D. in a game of table tennis. Is that right? Is he a nice guy? Yes, he's a very nice guy. That's good.

He's really good at ping-pong, right? I don't... I don't think this is telling you the tale of school. We were sharing an edit facility together, and he's been there working on his newest film for a long time. Which is with Tom Cruise, I believe. Correct. American Maid?

Yes, and The Wall they were just doing as well. He's got two movies that he's posting on. And another one. And so he brought in personally a ping pong table. And then a member of my staff told a member of his staff that we should play each other. And that spiraled out of control. And then it became this big game between us.

And I think that I'm pretty good at ping pong, table tennis. So I was like not sweating it. And then he comes to the table. They like squeeze in a time and a schedule. And one of his members of his team. Brings him. He goes, do you think I'll need Excalibur? And like I hear he's good referring to me.

Yeah. Which was just the hearsay of the people that had challenged him. Legend has it. He goes get Excalibur. This woman brings out a box a black like

nicely crafted box that when opened has a foam cutout with a custom paddle inside that she had to remove and hand to him and then we did a series of casual back and forth

and then when the game began, he unleashed a skill and finesse that he had not displayed in the warm-up. So you were saying he was sort of vaguely hustling you in the warm-up. Yes. Oh, big time. I think he went up like 15-0 and I think I ended 21-17 so I made a big run. Oh, that's good.

But he definitely beat me handily. He made you think you were going to play against Jumper when you actually played against Edge of Tomorrow. I mean, it was, he was, he really, yeah. Would you say that you were fair game? Number four, The Box Office. One of the big bombs of the year. A film I saw in theaters alone at the AMC Fenway.

A comedy starring two mismatched stars of the moment. Boy, are they mismatched. They were mismatched. They were legendary director of romantic comedy. Legendary director of romantic comedy. Is it Garry Marshall? No, it's a lady. Oh, it's not Nora Ephron, is it?

It is Nora Ephron. It's Nora Ephron. It's 2005. I believe this is her penult is Nora Ephron. It's Nora Ephron. It's 2005. I believe this is her penultimate film. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It is Will Ferrell and Nicole Kidman in Bewitched. What an idea that was. A film in which posits that the TV show Bewitched starred a real witch.

Right. And that in remaking it, they will also cast another witch, played by Nicole Kidman. Yeah. Which is almost the identical plot to, like, Child's Play 4? You mean Bride of Chucky? Yeah, Bride of Chucky. Yeah. Right? Isn't that the exact same plot?

Seed of Chucky does that, too. Whichever one that takes place on the set of a Chucky movie. I believe that's Bride of Chucky. Okay. Yeah. Yes, insane. The most... Which is crazy. I mean, Bride of Chucky at Okay. Yeah. Yes. Insane. The most. Bewitched is crazy.

Yeah. I mean but Bride of Chucky at least is a schlocky little horror movie. Like Bewitched was like one of the big tentpoles of the summer. Will Ferrell was hot.

Will Ferrell was hot. Nicole Kidman was hot. This was the first of like three consecutive bombs for Will Ferrell. Yes it was. Where he then went back to basics.

This was the year where he had the producers as well you know. And Kicking and Screaming. Yeah. And then he's like Adam McKay let's get back to getting.

Kicking and Screaming is not bad. I think people will look back on a lot of those movies and they will And Kicking and Screaming. Yeah. And then he's like, Adam McKay, let's get back together. Kicking and Screaming is not bad. No, it's not good. I think people will look back on a lot of those movies and they will, people will enjoy them. Because I think. The movies we just mentioned? Not Bewitched. Not Bewitched.

Here's what I think. Stephen Colbert's in it. I think that's a. And Carell too. Yes. Well. Plays Paul Lynde, right? Carell plays the Paul Lynde character and it's not good.

I think people will, I think not, they're not going to be regarded as great movies, but I think people who find Will Ferrell will be like, oh, these are fun. Have you ever seen Bewitched? I have not. No, no one will think that. Bewitched is insane. It's also like a Hollywood satire

in which Will Ferrell plays a star. Every decision that's made in that film is an odd one. It's one of the most overthought adaptations of incredibly simple source material I've ever seen. The line that it tried to hit in the trailers was where she goes, I'm a witch. And he goes, that's okay. I'm a Clippers fan. That was what it thought was like the line to land. They treat like the witch.

It's when Hollywood was trying to make Will Ferrell kind of like, this guy can be like a rom-com leading man, right? He's a plugger rather than like the creative force behind his movies. Right. Is he Jim Carrey rather than like Woody Allen? Right. Not that he's Woody Allen, but like Will Ferrell has to have a voice in his movies. Agreed.

That's when his films are best. And number five film at the box office is. Children's film. Another sort of reboot of a children's series starring the teen idol, teen star of the moment and Michael Keaton. Oh, Herbie Fully Loaded. Herbie Fully Loaded. My gosh.

Herbie Fully Loaded, a movie for children directed by Angela Robinson? Yes, and starring Lindsay Lohan, which the title refers to her large breasts. Wait, is that true? I mean, no. Yes. The poster also was like they cut her off right her large breasts. Yep. Wait, is that true? I mean, no. Yes. The poster also was

like they cut her off right below the breast. It was like her breast hanging over the car. What the fuck else is fully loaded supposed to be? I guess. Also written by Gowan Miller. No, Lennon and... Oh, they wrote the second pass or whatever. But also the Smallville guys wrote it.

But yes, you're right. Weird movie. Made $66 million. Fuck's up. It's not a bomb. Of course. That was before cinema started falling apart at the scene. It was a simpler time.

And so other movies up there, you've got Madagascar. Oh, great. The original. You've got- Longest Yard. It's so crazy. Aren't they still making Madagascar movies? Yeah, they'll never stop.

Are they? Yeah. I think they are. It's crazy. There's a fourth in development. Well, it's that thing with animation where they kind of get the ball rolling on a movie and then no one cares, but it's too late.

I could rant about Madagascar. Don't get me started on that. I don't want to. If the actors don't age, you can just keep making them. Also in that movie, Rebound. Who remembers Rebound? Oh, Martin Lawrence's Rebound?

Martin Lawrence coaches like a girls, like high school team or something? No, it's mixed. It's boys and girls. Good. It's not even the Ladybugs premise. You know what? Good.

I'm glad. It's progressive. Crazy. Also in there, you've got a little film called Star Wars Episode 3 Revenge of the Sith. Which I have still never seen. They made a third one? They did. Apparently they did.

I forgot about that. The Longest Yard? Yeah. Land of the Dead? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, do you guys remember when this podcast was about you guys having never... Yeah. I forgot about that. The Longest Yard? Land of the Dead? Oh, yeah. Do you guys remember when this podcast was about you guys having never... I remember when I just made that reference to it. Cinderella Man?

Cinderella Man. 2005, kind of a crappy year. Yeah, it was a bad year. A couple good movies come out at the end of the year, but the summer was... Oh, well, there's a movie in this in number 14 of the box office called Crash. I feel like that amounts to something. Weird. Crash. This was a weird

year, huh? Me and you and everyone we know. Oh my gosh. Remember that? That's like the most 2005 movie in a way. Boy, is it. Yeah. Pooping back and forth forever. Right. Well, J.D., thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thanks. And now we're going to talk about Terrorist House, right? Yes. Well, J.D., what a bad movie. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thanks. And now we're going to talk

about Terrorist House, right? Yes. This is J.D.'s new favorite TV show. Okay, so episode one, Terrorist House. No, no, no, no, no. We're totally out of time, J.D.

Check out My Brother, My Brother and Me on CISO. I was promised time for Terrorist House. Oh, right. That was just our way of luring you back in here. Listen 12 Hour Day.

Yes, thank you. My Brother, My Brother and Me, 12 Hour Day. Gether Show, every episode available on YouTube. Yeah, check out New York Story on Netflix. Season two of Gether? Yes, thank you. My brother-in-law and me, 12-Hour Day. Gethard Show, every episode available on YouTube. Yeah, check out New York Story on Netflix. Season 2 of Gethard. Yes, New York Story on Netflix.

I need to watch that. The Colin Quinn special is phenomenal. Thank you. Season 2 of Gethard, man. It was great. Thank you so much. Should be watched by all. Season 3?

We'll see. We'll see what the future holds. You never know. I mean, probably we'll know at the point this drops. Just Google by the time this episode drops it'll be four months from now.

Yeah, probably JD will be like at the helm of fucking, you know, Moon Knight for Marvel or something. That's my dream. Moon Knight? Moon Knight's your

guy. Griffin will be filming the tick. Yeah, deep into it. Producer Ben, any final thoughts? No, guys. You sound sick.

Oh, no. Okay, and Ben, dub final thoughts? No, guys. You sound sick. Oh, no. Ben, dub that over with your sick voice. Thank you for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Next week, we'll be talking about the film, Munich. That's right, with Todd Vanderwerf. With Todd Vanderwerf. We can promise a guest because

we've already recorded it. Every other time I've called a guest, they've... Steven Spielberg, man. What a moody little bastard he is. He's in his blue period. Thinking more of the world's in Munich back to back. And by blue period, I mean milky gray period. Sure. But yes, thank you.

Listening, rate, review, subscribe, go to the Reddit, what have you. And as always... Can you talk about lenses a little more JD yeah JD just give us a couple more lenses is there another

Spielberg movie where you like the lenses I mean you can so we can get into the lens talk about Spielberg but also his use of motion Ben put some easy

listening music onto this keep talking JD so Jonas Kaminski when he when he thinks about cameras it's all about the

point of view of what you're watching. When you're thinking about lens choices, you want to figure out if you want something that matches the human eye or something that gives you more of a dynamic approach that is selecting

the things that you want. That's why when you do non-digital intermediate work because this film, actually war of the worlds was a film where he didn't want to do a digital intermediate pass you wanted to do all of it through actual bleach bypass right that would sharpen it a little bit more yeah right it's please i don't get a little sharpened i think i mentioned the bleach pipette yeah exactly but then so then he does things like the in-camera netting, which gives that bloom that a lot of people will now do via DI.

Which isn't as good in your opinion. It isn't as good because you miss the tactile fabric of human nature. I agree. I so fucking hurt. And if you do, so the difference is you can put a net on the back of the lens or on the front of the lens. Now, the fear is the front of the lens, the light can catch the net, and then you get no more artifacts of the net showing up in your image, whereas if the net's on the back, it fades in a little bit showing up in your image. Whereas if the net's on the back,

it fades in a little bit more. You don't notice. So you like it on the back. Well, it's a little choice. It's a choice that you can make. Everything's a choice. You can make a choice. And Giannis, he'll put it up on the front sometimes

because he's not scared of that. He's mobile. That's why if you go back and you... In this movie... First, I'm not mobile. In this movie, there's a moment when the first... I think he is mobile. He can walk.

When the tripod makes an explosion noise in front of the church in the beginning, you can see the net, baby. You can see the net. You see it. I'm going to cut you off there, JD. I could do this all day. I'm hungry. Okay.

No, no, no. I don't have anything else to say. Okay, good. Okay. Bye, everybody. Okay, so here's the question before we start. I know you're recording now, but here's the question

before we start doing it in earnest. We involve Ben a lot in the podcast. Do you want to not be invoked? I am happy to be invoked, guys. Will, right? Will is my name invoked, guys. Will, right? Will is my name.

Okay, cool. I'm going to turn Will. Okay. Or what can happen, too, is you can respond, and those will just be the lines that Ben has to ADR and put in later of himself. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, you could just have him overdub what I say. Okay, cool.

Ain't that right, Ben? It's like, yeah. I could do my Ben impression. let's try all of the options let's see what works best okay um i think it's sort of like a singing in the rain thing where it's like you fill in and then ben over cord over exactly what you say but in a voice that is more befitting of the exact tone yes right um okay and then and then the note here is to place this whole conversation at the end of the episode. Right. As is tradition. Right. OK. Ready. This has been a UCB comedy production. Check out our other shows on the UCB comedy podcast network.