Blank Check with Griffin & David - What Lies Beneath with Starlee Kine

Episode Date: November 15, 2020

The central thesis to this week's episode on What Lies Beneath: folks, they just don't make them like they used to! Starlee Kine (Election Profit Makers) joins to discuss the "grown-up" movie, the performances from Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford, where the screenwriting falls short, and the paranormal. Join our Patreon at patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter and Instagram! Buy some real nerdy merch @ shopblankcheckpod.myshopify.com

i think she's starting to suspect something. Who? Your podcast. Okay. Long break there. You really took a breath. Because I did the lean in. I tried to do the lean in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You did the... It's such a visual. You couldn't change your face. Yeah. And you didn't do it with the southern accent. Your podcast. Your podcast. That line is how I learned something about Michelle Pfeiffer's range.

Because that line, there is like a slight Southern accent to that line. I guess the girl who died was Southern. Because I don't know if it's Amber Valletta's character. I don't think she's Southern. And so, but you're supposed to know that it's someone else talking. And it's just one line spoken with that Southern lilt. And Michelle Pfeiffer couldn't do it. Well, but then I wonder, see, here's my question.

I wonder, is that Amber Valletta doing the line? Could be, I suppose. Dubbing it over. I'm reading that she was raised in Oklahoma. So, you know, that's the South, right? You know, I know that's sort of a, you know, South Midwest, you know, but it's the South. It's even weirder that she can't do a Southern accent then. You know what's even weirder?

What's arguably the weirdest? That this was like an $80 million star-driven prestige horror film released in the middle of the summer and that was the money shot in the trailer that is the shot that made this one of the 10 highest grossing films of the year which seems so low-key now i want to correct you it's its budget is listed as a hundred million dollars which is I assume everyone just got paid out because, you know, it's a very nicely apportioned movie, but you don't see $100 million here.

No. Yeah, because it made triple that. It made $300 million. Big hit. Big fucking hit. Yeah, and it, but I saw that one of the expenses was there were five, the bathroom had five sets.

There were five builds of that bathroom. So there could be a bathroom on both coasts. And then I was just like, that's just indulgence. You don't need to build five bathroom sets. It's just a bathtub. That's what this movie feels like. Not only is everyone getting paid their maximum quote, but also Zemeckis is like, here's how I want to do everything. And I want to do everything in the most extreme control obsessed way.

But no, but it didn't feel it didn't feel like it didn't feel like a Kubrick thing. It didn't feel like I need to have the right red door. It felt like we are all at a point in our careers where we need to have ultimate comfort. Like the Ipping on both coasts felt like you can't make anyone inconvenient for a second. None of our stars can ever not feel comfort. And we have to build a bathroom set wherever they are happening to be vacationing. The other thing is because I feel like now for how big of a hit this movie was, it's not talked about very much. And I think its longest lasting legacy is just oh it's the movie shot

while tom hanks lost weight during castaway and so i was like looking into that the the scheduling of the two movies against each other and it seemed like unless i'm misreading this this was an eight month shoot wow it's a long time i mean also cost a lot that cost is it yeah is it that it was an eight month shoot or was it just an eight month break in between like this did this really take that long to make that that's no because this is where i'm trying to figure this out i believe it was a full year break in cast away and this took up eight of those 12 months that's what i think i read but it was hard to get that confirmed it was so little written written about it, too. I feel like it's it's it's been like erased from history in every way. It seems like no one involved once is invested in its legacy whatsoever.

It's almost like this movie went missing and no one can figure out what happened to it, as if my husband is trying to cover something up. By leaving careful clues. I think it doesn't have much of a legacy. Although I don't think it's a disliked movie. Right? It's a forgotten movie. It's maybe a little forgotten considering the size of how big a hit it was.

But is it also, I mean, no spoilers, but is it also the only movie where harrison ford is a villain ever i i think so david you've become incredibly blurry you look like the poster for michael clayton you look like john ham in the christmas black mirror yes at the end of that episode where he gets blocked right i i this i don't know if it's zoom or my camera but it has started to do this occasionally and if i just turn it off and on, it stops. But it just blurs me out as if I am, like you say, worthy of censorship, essentially. Like if I am testifying on CNN, but my voice is going to be really deep and I can't show my face. It's really disturbing because that Christmas episode is the most haunting thing I've ever experienced. And I thought this was a thing that you guys did. That I was being ghostly? Or to let the other person feel like they had the stage.

You just blocked yourself. I don't know how your partnership works. It's constantly evolving. I mean, honestly, like all great marriages, it's constantly evolving. We keep secrets from each other. And we gaslight each other into thinking that the other one is going crazy by assuming that ghosts are real.

Did you see this movie when it first came out? Yes. I saw this movie for the first time last night. Oh, okay. Wow. I saw it in theaters. That's interesting. Well, Griff, introduce our podcast. Introduce our guests. Sorry, I introduce our guests and then let's talk about this no no no no sarli don't apologize that's what we like we like yeah we like it it's

but before now they're introduced what's terrifying to us is if a guest is sitting there waiting to come in and we're going like this we should come in that's not me not you this is a podcast called blank check with griffin and david i'm griffin i'm david and it's about filmographies directors That's not me. Not you. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. And it's about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want.

And sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they lie beneath baby. And this is a miniseries on the films of Robert Zemeckis, the famous Bobby Z, and we've gotten to what lies beneath uh a a i mean kind of his biggest clear year he has two of the 10 top grossing films of the year in 2000 He makes two massive star-driven films that both hit hard. Castaway, more critically beloved, I feel like has had a longer legacy, although it was not the major Oscar play that people presumed.

This movie, I was surprised. I had forgotten, kind of trashed by critics at the time. People kind of shrugged it off, but was a huge popular success. People dissed it at the time, which, in retrospect, I'm like, if something like that, I mean, we say this all the time on this podcast, but if something like this

came out now, critics would be falling over themselves, being like, he's paying homage to a great director, he controls the camera, he's got movie stars, and he's deploying them. Like, this is great. Like, why can't Hollywood make more of these? It stars people over the age of 50.

A studio's releasing it on 3,000 screens in the middle of July. Like, everything about it would be catnip to them. At the time, critics were just like, we get it, Bobby. You've seen a Hitchcock movie. Like, they were just like, you know, jerking off. I mean, it's a clear and i don't think this movie's a masterpiece although it has its defenders but it is the clearest sign of it's a good example of how things have shifted in 20 years yeah

no what are you gonna say i don't know when the talking is supposed to happen introduce our guest griffin All times. Our guest today, from Election Profit Makers, writer on Search Party, Star Lee Kine, who we said in an ad read we should have on the show. We were thinking out loud. We were doing an ad read

for The Shivering Truth, an Adult Swim show that both you and I were voices on, Star Lee. And while doing the ad read, we were like, oh, we should have Star Lee

on the show. Why haven't we done that? And then we, of our infinite organizational capabilities, never reached out to you. You reached out to us and said, hey, I heard you guys said

on an episode that you should have me on the show. I'd love to do the show. We went, oh yeah, no, that's a good idea. That's the only time I've ever done that. Never done it. But I felt fairly safe because it had been put out it had been put on record it was on the record

also shout out to kat solon who made who is uh i know the shivering truth vernon and kat solon um just one i know she listened to this show so i want to shout out to her great work very good uh kat solon who rules. Shivering Truth is really, really good too. We did ad reads for it so then I feel like people are like, well, you're on the show and you did an ad read. You're just shilling for it.

But I genuinely really like it. It's a thing I think is very cool that I'm part of. A small part. It's a bugna show. Surely my part is smaller. I just say like three sounds. I don't even say full words on Shivering Truth.

But you've been on multiple episodes now. I've been on one. I think I've been on one. It was the first season. It might even have been the first episode of the first season. And it's literally, I think it's like my bra straps are getting snapped and I'm just making sounds. I do not believe I say words. That rules. Well, to be fair. making sounds. I do not believe I say words. That

rules. Well, to be fair, so, I mean, you said this is the first time you've ever asked to be on a show. I think this is the only time we've ever talked through guest booking ideas during an ad read. So, the honor goes both ways. But I messaged you and I said, would you want to do

What Lies Beneath? And I think your line was, you said, I've only seen it once, but it's the kind of movie I wish I were watching all the time. That is true. Yes. That genre of film I find very relaxing. And it pains me that they're not – they used to be made all the time. And the way they used to be made defied critical thinking so that you could just relax and not really care if they were that good. And the predictability is comforting in a Law & Order kind of way.

Law & Order the show, not the concept. Although we love Law & Order. We do. We tweet in all caps all the time. Law & Order. All the time. Yes. And they don't do these kind of movies anymore they're very very few and

far between and um and i feel like that's a loss and i also think that's why if this one came out it would get so much of a claim not because it necessarily deserves it but because we would just be so excited to have it would we would be so excited to have a movie like this again and it would be better than the ones that are made now totally i also i just kept thinking while watching this movie if this were to be made tomorrow it would be made for a streaming platform or it would be made independently at a much smaller budget and it's not to say that couldn't be good but there's something about like Not to say that couldn't be good, but there's something about, like, weirdly, while you watch this movie and you're like, how did it cost $100 million? You also kind of see the money on screen just with the patience of the movie. Like, this movie has the energy of they were given time to do everything very deliberately.

time to do everything very deliberately. And even just the ease of they're relaxed enough because they had four bathtubs made. It comes across in the energy of the movie where you feel like something like Gerald's game, the Mike Flanagan movie, like the stuff he's been doing for Netflix is just like, I guess that's like the closest equivalent to like this kind of thing today that the other horror movies that get released, like the A24 stuff feel more gonzo, you know? But there's that genre in between because Gerald's Game, I watched that hoping, hoping it was going to be like this. And Gerald's Game is kind of, it's gross. It has all that stuff that happens. It's so not relaxing. So I didn't feel protected. And it kind of, it's gross. It has all that stuff that happens. It's grody. It's so not relaxing, so I didn't feel protected.

And it kind of- It's too gross. Yeah, it's too gross. I think Netflix has a lot of these that we now know are so bad that we don't even turn them on. There are theater releases that will have like Jennifer Lopez, maybe.

Yes. I feel like I hear about ones coming out and they're always like the house next door but i know already that they're not going to be not even at this level but the level even slightly below this that came out during this time yes what was the one with dennis quaid griff what was it called uh the intruder the intruder yeah they're all that right right they're screen releases they're a lot. And it was made for like $8 million. Like,

you know, they, they made that as cheaply as they could, as quick as they could. They had some like name actors in it or whatever, but like, it's also why I think invisible man got like high. Invisible man is the equivalent of this.

They got better reviews. And I think the movie actually was, but it is really good considering we have not had anything like that in so long. Yeah. And, and that it also is a movie that like its power comes from suggestion in the same kind of way. I mean, it's like baked into the whole premise, but it's all about the lingering fear and building the anticipation. And I don't know. I mean, I just feel like watching this last night, it's like the versions of this that are made today, whether they're the Screen Gems version where it's just going to be a lot more briskly cut, a lot more jump scares. They don't want to more way more jumps, way more jumps and way more like loud noises jumps, not just the classic, you know, pet jump, you know, right?

Like a door moving or whatever. classic pet jump, like a door moving or whatever. Right, and even the Netflix version of this would not be comfortable with this much silence, would rely a lot more on close-ups just because they know people are watching it on a smaller screen. This is a movie that weirdly has the consciousness of,

we hope that a sold-out crowd is going to see this on the biggest possible screen in the middle of July. I saw this movie when I was 14 years old on a big screen, and it was so good on a big screen. And I was 14 years old, so I probably had not seen that many kind of robust thriller grown-up movies in theaters yet.

It was still a pretty new experience for me. But it was just fun to be with a gasping audience, you know, as twists are unfurled and so on. You know what's weird, though, is I have, this movie is gone

from my memory. Gone. I was watching it and normally you get traces back when you rewatch a movie you haven't seen in a while. Only thing I remembered

was that Amber Valletta was in it. And I was like, I remember, I had a vague memory of people being like, valetta is an actress now and it was during supermodel times when people thought about oh i guess it was a little bit after supermodel times and um and it was like that was a bit of a buzz but she's and that was it i couldn't remember anything and then so there's something like soundproof about it it actually does not penetrate your consciousness i mean yes the only thing i

really remembered is for the end is the for for being bad that's the thing that kind of stuck with me well i was surprised when i was reading reviews some of what i was watching like the end when he keeps coming back when he keeps not being dead. I was like, surely this must be one of the first times this happened because otherwise you wouldn't be able to, we know we can't do that now, but this must have been one of the first times, so that's why they were doing it.

But then all the reviews were like, all this recycled stuff that we've seen a million times. So already by this time, which it was made in 2000, right? That had already been done. And so what really have we been doing for the last 20 years? Because it feels like movie, it feels like that was just yesterday that they just that they started that trope. And we haven't come up with any tropes since then. It's this thing I'm kind of obsessed with. I feel like I talk about too much on the podcast, but I feel like sometimes

things that are effective get used so much that then the audience starts to like feel like they're smarter than it. Oh, it's this thing. I've seen it before. And then filmmakers start removing effective storytelling tools from their arsenal because they're like, well, I don't want to like give into the cynicism of I've seen this before, but they're like, well, I don't want to like give into the cynicism of I've seen this before, but they're not replacing it with anything new. They're just taking effective storytelling tools off the table. And it is that thing of just like, well, even if you've seen it before, like even if Harrison Ford does just become the Terminator in the last 20 minutes of this movie, it still is shocking. It still is upsetting and scary.

Just using him. Yes. Especially using him. Yes. It was the best use of him in the whole movie. Like before that, he was so dead feeling. And so it made me, it turned, and there was something,

it actually felt like it was about something finally. Him, the way he tries to kill her and the way she's running from him actually makes it the story of a marriage in a way that the rest of the movie actually doesn't do. Because the problem with this movie is the writing. This movie is so strange. I mean, just even talking about like its cultural legacy and then we'll start to dig into like the meat of the film itself. But I was remembering, because I didn't see this at the time i was young but i also was terrified of movies like as much as i was a movie kid any film that was trafficking in this sort of like a slow burn tension was fucking kryptonite to me i didn't want to touch it because i was such an

anxious kid and not not just, like, horror thriller films like this. We talked about this, or we talk about it coming up a little bit in the Castaway episode. But, like, I was even scared to see a movie like Castaway where I was like,

the plane's going to crash and then he's going to be fucked. Like, I was, like, so nervous. Like, I don't want this movie to get out of the point where his life is fine. Didn't you feel that way? I listen to you guys back to the future.

Didn't back to the future stress you out then? Because when I was little, the things this made me, these movies were comforting in a way that movies that just caused where the characters were feeling anxiety actually is what caused me anxiety. Things going wrong is what I couldn't handle. And that's why when I walked back to the future, I, I, all I wanted to do was get to the, it was such a, it was such a relief when it all works out.

But this stuff, it seems like two different, it's a, this doesn't seem as anxiety provoking. I, I think it was the comedy cut it for me. I don't remember ever being stressed out about back to the future, although I was very invested in it,

even from the first time watching it. But I, I mean, this is like the most absurd version of the story that I've told before. But my dad had to drag me to see Austin Powers because I was terrified about the idea that he was cryogenically frozen. It like that was such a terrifying concept to me. And my dad just wanted to see the movie and was stuck with my brother and I for the weekend. You know, for the weekend, I say as if my parents were divorced at the time. It was just my mom was like, I wake them up. You know, I fucking take care of them all day, Saturday and Sunday. You have to do shit with them. But but but like I remember, I mean, the same year, like you five, seven, one, I think I walked out of because I just was like, I can't handle the tension of the fucking submarines

going to go wrong. But anything like that, any sort of disaster movie, it would freak me out. And I just remember being like, you know, it's not like my parents said I couldn't see this movie, although they were a protective. I was just like, yeah, no interest in seeing that looks too spooky. And then I after watching the movie because I knew so little about it, it's talked about so little that I was It's talked about so little that I was like,

okay, bathtub and the shot where she turns into the other woman. That's all I really remember from the marketing. Let me just watch the movie for somewhat cold and then let me watch the trailer. And it's bizarre

how much the trailer kind of unfolds everything. I mean, Castaway's the same year where he gets slagged. Yeah, Zemeckis is like, who fucking cares? Right, but I do think the movie actually holds up better if you're watching it in a context where you haven't seen the trailer or like you started,

you don't remember anything that's going to happen. And you know what? I kept, everything I read about this movie says that he didn't care and that he was just like, that he was, one of the reviews was like,

he's over the shocks. He's phoning it in. He's rusty. He just put this movie, made this movie in between making cast. Wait, this movie did not strike me

as someone who didn't care. I thought this movie was very painstakingly stuck, put together and that's not the problem with it. I think people don't have his number when it comes to this film. Yeah, I don't think you can really,

even his shitty, his whatever, his misfires now, I don't think that would ever be what I tag Zemeckis with. He's definitely very invested. Yeah. I mean, this movie I like. I think post these two movies griff he often misjudges what is compelling about the story he's telling maybe right like i'm trying to i'm trying to frame exactly what it is that kind of like went off for him i don't know we'll talk about it with

these later movies one thing i wanted to say, Starly, re-your, like, missing this kind of movie. I have been recently watching Morgan Freeman movies. Like, movies that Morgan Freeman starred in. Like, I watched Seven. Like, A Long Came a Spider. Exactly.

Like, Kiss the Girls. Like, you know, I watched Seven, and I sort of had for, it had been a while since I'd seen Seven, and I forgot, like, oh, like, he had been a while since I'd seen Seven and I forgot like oh like he Morgan Freeman is the star of Seven and is so good in Seven and post that not that he wasn't

already famous with Shawshank and Driving Miss Daisy and stuff but like post that it was like Hollywood churned out a Morgan Freeman movie a year like where he's a cop and those movies even though they're often like you know the Alex Cross movies those movies, even though they're often like, you know, the Alex Cross movies

are pretty salacious, like they're very relaxing. He's a very relaxing screen presence. There is nothing more relaxing than those movies. Those and the corpse, the like,

what, 90s, 80s legal dramas. Oh, yeah. I mean, I love like a Grisham, right, yeah, like some kind of legal drama.

Even before the Grisham, I'm talking the like, like the Black Widow ones. There's a woman who killed her husband and they have to get... Sure. Which is a different genre than Grisham movies, although The Firm is just incredible. I mean, The Firm is the best Grisham movie by far.

But do you also mean like Reversal of Fortune? Like that sort of like that trend of early 90s, you know, like sort of slightly classy courtroom movies. Like with like a good lawyer character, you know, like some twists and turns, that kind of stuff. I mean, I will take all of them. I want them all back. It is a loss that I mourn daily. The wrong, the gatekeepers are the wrong people and they messed everything up. I want it

all back. But I'm saying the whole difference is that the lowbrow ones used to be better than any movie, definitely better than these Netflix movies that are made. And for the most part, if you find one of those Morgan Freeman, they're not all.

You can definitely, there's some that are so not good that if you dig around on those morgan freeman they're not all you can definitely there's some that are so not good that you if you dig around on netflix those are the ones that are usually available now because they must be the cheapest ones but those morgan freeman along came the spider ones are so compelling and good i i feel like the thing we're really mourning the loss of is trashy movies for adults no but you know what i'm saying it's like movies made for adults now are always sort of aspiring to be prestigey and then commercial films are made for sort of like younger audiences and the idea of like a sort of like this is no delusions of being an oscar movie This is not trying to be a critic's favorite. This is a popcorn movie for grownups

starring two people over the age of 50 trying to solve a moral quandary. And I think I'm missing, I think what I'm mourning is us feeling like there was more to make. It didn't feel like we were going to stop there. The reason these movies felt good is because we had a bunch of them,

but I didn't think we were never going to create new genres and never create yeah i have a couple other thoughts that i need to say before i forget them one griff i've never seen high crimes i'm assuming you've never seen i've never seen high no one's seen high crimes it was directed by carl franklin like is there a chance there's something there because he's a good good director. Carl Franklin rules. Maybe I should check out. Exactly. Two. Morgan Freeman, Jim Caviezel, Ashley Judd. Is that it? It's a reunion of Judd and Freeman from Kiss the Girls.

Yeah. Even though they're playing different characters. The other thing, Starla, you mentioned Jennifer Lopez. And it's underrated as well that that was such a cornerstone of her movie star career was r-rated movies for grown-ups like the cell angel eyes enough like those kinds of like movies for grown-ups like i mean she would make rom-coms and stuff as well but like she went right to those as she got famous like pre her becoming like a super duper pop star when that's when i feel like but yeah but even you know like a few years ago she made the boy next door i mean that that is a silly

movie i guess that's the thing her movies get trashier she's right right right she's still making them but they now have to like try to be so trashy right right right so is it what are they what is the logic? They're thinking that grown-ups don't want movies anymore? Or they are not going to leave their house? What do they think that people don't... What happened? Why did we once appeal to grown-ups and not anymore? I don't know.

I think there's partly... I will say, whenever I write about this stuff, so many grown-ups get get in my mentions being like well you know the movie theater experience has been ruined i was gonna say you know like i don't like essentially the i don't like these kids with their phones looking at you know you know eating popcorn and yelling or whatever like there's that there's definitely that energy out there of like well no one wants to go to the theater anymore. That's crazy. They're giving up. They are.

They shouldn't give up. I mean, that's, yeah. They also have all, they have like a big TV now, maybe. Maybe that's all it took. Leapfrogging off of what you're saying, David, this is 2000, pretty much right after this, the big DVD boom happens, where suddenly like large, higher quality TVs become much more affordable.

DVD is so much better than VHS. And you start to hear the sentiment of like, well, with my setup, it's almost as good as going to the theater, which very quickly gets coupled with these kids, these movies. It's all trash. I don't want to go out and see it. I feel like that like sort of like to pinpoint it, I feel like white people over the age of 40 are the first audience to start to be like, is it really worth the hassle of going out to the theater? Which they then also blame on.

All these movies are made for kids. There's nothing worth even seeing anymore. But then when these movies come out, they don't go out and see them because they go, well, it's easier. Just wait until it's out blockbuster until I can get it in the mail from Netflix until it's streaming on Netflix. Like that changes sort of. Well, then why don't they still make at least good movies for them to watch at home? I from Netflix, until it's streaming on Netflix. Like that change has sort of evolved. Well, then why don't they still make at least good movies for them to watch at home? I mean, I think it's crazy

they don't want to leave their house and that they're still doing the Blockbuster. But why, we don't, we didn't have to then say because they're sitting at home, they get nothing. Is it just because there was no ticket sales that people needed anymore? I think that's part of it.

I think it's harder to make, and I think people get more scared. I mean, that's like, at the end of the day, it's the thing of just like, people stop having the confidence that the thing will work. So they start trying to cut it with like,

you know, what lies beneath, I mean, David, you said, like you saw this, you were 14 years old. This was a big movie with teenagers, but it's a movie that is not outwardly trying to appeal to teenagers at all. It is a movie that had an allure to teenagers

because it was like, oh, this looks like some spooky adult shit. It was scary. Right. That's pretty much the only allure probably for us. This movie could not be more teenager-proof. It doesn't have any, the one young person, she's sent away in like the first scene. But teenagers wanted to see it.

There was this weird aspirational effect, which certainly used to happen of like, I want to seem mature that I want to see the grownup horror movie. And now I feel like you have your horror films that are clearly meant for kids and your big franchises and whatever. But then when you get something like The Intruder,

which is a perfect example, as David said, a $7 million Dennis Quaid, Screen Gems movie that is very trashy. Neighbor from Hell movie. Right. On its face, that premise could be made into a movie like this. Even at a lower budget, it has all the trappings of its adult characters, its adult themes. There's no reason it has to be this sort of like gonzo and flashy and manic. and it has to be this sort of like gonzo and flashy and manic,

but it just feels like all these movies are like, we need to outwardly try to get 16-year-olds on board. We need to try to get 13-year-olds on board. We need to make it look really active and shocking. And the slow burn of this movie, I mean, talk about like watching it cold without re-watching the marketing materials, trying to keep myself as blind as I could

with just like, I remember the bathtub, I remember the face transformation, nothing else. The most effective chunk of this movie for me is the first hour where I'm going like, where is this going? But it has that confidence because it's got that like Zemeckis control, the control of pace and everything

where you're just like, I know he's going somewhere. I don't know if this movie is going to be a masterpiece, but I know he's going to something. And every little morsel that's dropped off, every clue, I'm really, really engaged trying to figure out what is this movie building to? And as you said, it's kind of not until the last 15 minutes that you're like, OK, I get thematically what this movie is doing. okay, I get thematically what this movie is doing, but it's rare that you watch a movie that takes so long to reveal, not just like its twist, but what it's trying to say

and yet has the confidence to keep you on board for that long. But what's interesting to me is I was watching the first hour and being like, it's such a shame that it's written so poorly because what makes a movie- Coming for Clark Gregg.

Oh my God, you have no idea how much. I'm gonna, I just, yes. I fully want to come for Clark Gregg because it just, it was shocking to me

how bad the script was. If, considering what the movie thought, what the movie was doing, but considering all the jumps, scares are at the end of the film, you actually have to build a world. And what makes a movie like Sixth Sense so special

is that Sixth Sense conceals its twist by making this incredible film that you're super engrossed in that has scares in it, but you are actually following a plot or like a movie like, I mean, I'm going for like really good movies, like Hereditary,

where like also saves some scares, very sparing use of when when it's scary but you're so absorbed in the world of it this movie i just felt like because i did think so much care was put into it i was shocked that like i this is what i often wonder why not put the same amount of care into the script why is the script so often an afterthought for a movie like this where you're talking they're just talking for an hour but then it's weird because this was such a hot script what were you gonna say there what it was a hot script well i think it's a very the reason it was a hot script probably is like it's very easy to it has an easy hook and not a lot of characters so it's sort of like

clean and spare right like you probably you could just read it and be like I can you know I can picture this in my head right like I don't know how else it's a very rudimentary script but wait but this original story came from Sarah Kernighan who's like a

two time academy award winning documentary filmmaker and she has this idea and she writes it i believe she writes a full draft it's not that she has this idea it's supposedly she had a personal experience with the paranormal yes sure right that is how it is put so she got who knows what happens that sounds She's married, has been for a long time to legendary theater director James Lapine. Yeah. I don't know how

autobiographical the script is or isn't, but she said it was like she was in a house with her husband in a somewhat secluded area, had a paranormal experience. The idea came out of that.

I believe she writes a full draft of the script. DreamWorks acquires it. The other thing this movie comes out of is just like, this is peak. DreamWorks is getting up on its feet. They're trying to establish themselves as a studio. Here's like Spielberg and Geffen and Katzenberg. And they want to like make their mark by being like, we're making big fucking marquee movies. We're bringing in the biggest directors, the biggest stars, but they're also just trying to acquire like big shit. Like they're like, you know, we,

I feel like DreamWorks was still trying to position themselves as being more highbrow. Like they were, everything they were trying to make, whether or not it worked, had a certain veneer to it where you're like, even something like Mouse Hunt, which is like, you know, oh, like DreamWorks in its first year is making a kids movie is this like bizarrely

expensive, production heavy, intricate children's movie starring like two theater actors. Yeah. And so you can see

how Spielberg would look at this and be like, oh, it's like an adult couple. It takes place in this house. It's got these

Spielberg-y elements. It's got these Hitchcock-y elements. You know, it's like an adult couple. It takes place in this house. It's got these Spielberg-y elements. It's got these Hitchcock-y elements. You know, it's got like all these sorts of things in it. And so he, I think, originally is sort of like looking at it for himself. And then he brings the script to Zemeckis. I think the biggest thing was like, it would be great. I mean, so much of the promise of DreamWorks was, man, all Spielberg movies

are going to be DreamWorks releases. That's enough to, you know, green light a studio. But also, he's going to be able to get all his friends and his favors in to do movies. So it's like, fuck DreamWorks. He gets the movie stars.

Right. DreamWorks has gotten a Zemeckis movie now. DreamWorks has gotten, he's going to be able to call in the movie star favors. And he brings it to Zemeckis and is like, I think this would be good for you. Zemeckis goes, oh man, this is perfect. I need a movie that takes place in a controlled environment while I burn eight

months waiting for Tom Hanks to become emaciated. I have a hundred million dollars just to burn while I'm waiting. But the thing that happens in between is Spielberg kind of goes like, oh, this script, I like this premise. I don't really like the script. And then hires Clark Gregg and says like, essentially do a page one rewrite. So, Kiernan can only get story credit, but Gregg also gets story credit. It was very much positioned as like

she came up with whatever the germ of the thing was. And they essentially bought the script in order to start over from the idea. So, there's this quote from her on wikipedia and where she talks about um she where she says i think people know that there's no point in calling me in if you want the other kind of women characters a featureless help me character or the saint or the whore you know any of the archetypes i don't think all women are powerful intelligent any of these things i just require that female characters are

very real that they have all the dimension that the male characters do. I read this after I watched the movie. Like, to me, the problem with that first hour is you, there is no, it's not even the gist, Michelle Pfeiffer doesn't have a character because Harrison Ford also doesn't have a character, so it's not just about the woman not having a character. I was going to say, no one really has dimensionality.

I know, I know. They're all archetypes. But it is her movie. It is watching a woman question if she's mentally ill grapple with um her her marriage her daughter leaving like the fact that they gave it to i don't know i don't know anything about clark greg other than i know he's an actor i know he's married to jennifer gray this is the first movie he wrote but like just being like this is the guy who should write this story especially since it was a woman who wrote it to begin with and she has quotes like that

that is the problem it just has i couldn't agree more i mean it feels like if nothing else it's it's lacking in that sort of specificity because this movie is so framed from the perspective of this character all those circumstances you said, being of a certain age, being at a certain point in her marriage, being an empty nester for the first time, you know, like dealing with that fear of like, am I losing my mind?

Right, repressing that she saw her husband have an affair and not acknowledge to herself. Like she's truly going through, this is woman under the influence as a psychological thriller. Which is one of my favorite sub-genres as a movie is person questioning whether or not they're going crazy. Yeah. Rosemary's Baby, like, right?

It's very evocative of that. But these are like all some of my favorite movies ever made. I mean, Rosemary's Baby is what I kept thinking about being like, Rosemary's Baby, every scene is enjoyable. Like, it is just the movie you want to watch over and over and over again. And like, so when you watch a movie like this,

I just don't understand why you wouldn't put the same muscle into that part of it. Into anything that wasn't just getting the special effects perfect, which they were. It's wild, too,

that it's like, oh, DreamWorks is gobbling everything up. They're just looking for stuff to acquire. Here's the script. Why pick clark greg to write it is odd because he's okay i okay you have i have no i don't i just this is i just have to know i have no beef with clark greg i think he is a big fan of his wonderful wonderful character actor i I saw Choke, the movie he wrote and directed. He directs two movies after this,

but he has not written or directed a film prior to this. Very male movie, too. Like, could not be more male. To go from this to Choke. Yes. He wrote and directed the movies he directed. But is he, I just have to know, is he someone who was quietly doing rewrites for years, which is certainly plausible? How is it someone who was like quietly doing rewrites right you know for years like which is

certainly plausible like how is it that they're like all right all right so we're gonna get some mechas maybe or like some big director like how about we give clark greg a call to polish this like i just want to know like the scenario what this is what it seems like to me it seems like clark greg is a super likable guy he's, he's just exactly the kind of actor that they're like, they're not, he's not a movie star, but everyone likes to have him around. He exudes intelligence. Kind of a Tate Donovan type of the time. Yeah. And so they were, I think they were like, we like Clark.

He wants to write. Must have been great in the room. Yeah. And we like him. Let's give him this. There's no other scenario. Maybe Joel Grey pulled some strings. I don't know.

But it just. Okay. No. So I Googled because I needed to know more. I needed to know just a little bit more. Did he write some like spec script that everyone loves? Yes. Okay.

He had written some spec scripts that Nina Jacobson, who, you know, becomes a really big wig and is at DreamWorks, had loved. And she comes to him and she reads his scripts, I guess. And she's like, we have a ghost idea that's a couple of sentences and Spielberg is sniffing around it. You know what I mean? And so basically she sort of sends him off with like that Okay And then he turns in a draft And then Zemeckis calls And is like I want to do this

But like it's like a Hitchcock ghost thing Yeah And he's like okay You know and so So very much a for hire job But I guess like when they start it off It's kind of a It's just a spec thing

It's like well we'll see But what about Sarah But why wasn't you take a shot the one who wrote it then if she had this story no they clearly just bought it from her and we're like goodbye we have no and at first i was like maybe she didn't have any credit so they were easy it was like they were just like we just don't take her seriously at all but she seems respected so i just don't understand had she already won oscar it just is so crazy to me there's also this weird fucking thing i mean speaking about all the stupid behavioral like sort of uh shit that doesn't

make sense in the entertainment industry but there's this line of thinking of like it has to be additive you have to move forward where like yeah uh like i they did their thing we're bringing someone new like not yeah we're not going backwards we're not right like i've heard stories about like someone writes a script uh then uh they go oh it's good this area we feel like is underdeveloped we're gonna hire someone to rewrite it with an eye on this thing the The person rewrites it, they fuck the script up worse. And then the original writer goes, I'll rewrite it and try to reset it and take your notes. And they go, we can't go back to the first writer. We have to hire a third writer to undo the work that the second writer did rather than just reverting back to the earlier file, you know,

and then bringing a new writer onto that. Like, there's just this thought of like, you have to be doing new shit as opposed to ever moving back. It's because everyone's got to justify their jobs. Everyone's got to justify. Yeah. Right.

And it's partly, it's a control thing. It's like, well, no, you were there then. If you come back, then you have more authorship of this than maybe we want.

You know what I mean? Like, that must be part of it maybe we want you know what i mean like that must be part of it like you know they're like fundamentally it is our project and you are simply you know one of the many tools in our toolbox seems perfect for that too he seems like a guy who'd be willing to be one of the tools in a toolbox yes he is not someone in these interviews who's like i'm so proud of that movie in these interviews he's like you know what i saw it at the premiere i've never watched it again because i don't love to like re-watch things i worked on uh i would just obsess over what i wanted to change so it's yeah he does not seem like he seems you know that was really my moment you know he's he's just kind of like well

it was but that's what i think he's about him. He really does seem so likable in a way that— He's very affable. Yeah. He's nice. Yes. I enjoy him. I feel like if you don't want someone who gets in the way of your vision— He's the one—she has all these opinions about women, and she wants to have archetypes.

I think that's the other big factor, Starley, is just like if someone like Sarah Kernighan comes in is like, this is personal. I had this experience out of this. I examined my own relationships. They're like, oh, interesting premise. We don't want you getting too attached to this thing. Like you care too much about this. And then to go to Clark Gregg and go like, can you spin something off of these three lines? And he's like, yeah, sure. I think they they get worried if people care too much because then they're like, oh, are they going to be a precious artist? If someone like Clark Gregg comes in and he's like, it's a living, they're like, great. That's the exact right attitude.

Yeah, because we can still exert more control over it in the way that you're saying, David. But it's a problem when it's a movie that is so about the writing. If you're going to do a movie like this, to pull off that first hour has to really be about characters and story. Well, that would make this a capital G great movie, possibly. But the movie we watched, the movie that exists, is all about the direction

and deploying two big movie stars. And the writing is an afterthought. And that's why the movie is very watchable and kind of lovable 20 years later, but not capital G great, I would say. But also why it's so slow, because you're waiting for something to happen instead of getting attached.

There was a Pacino interview, I feel like recently, that went a little viral where someone just asked him, like, why do you make so many shitty movies? And he was like, you know, at a certain point, it became like this competitive thing

of they would like send me an awful script with a big, like, you know, money offer attached. And I would go, this script is garbage. I wonder if I can act well enough to make this better.

Like if someone sends me an A-level script, I can trust that I'll be good in that. If someone sends me an F-level script, the struggle of, could I turn this into a C, almost gets me more excited.

And I have to wonder. What is he? He's like zero for a hundred on that? Because then it truly dragged him to the bottom of the sea the way that this movie tracks Amber Valletta

he's done that decision yes yes but I think he even in that interview is like I probably got stuck in that trap

and it's never really worked like he admits it you know like I shouldn't have done like 18 Avi Lerner cop movies where I'm 87 and pretending I'm 24 and dyeing my hair orange. But like, I do feel like to a certain degree, someone like Zemeckis, who in all these interviews I've been reading is like a guy who is innately kind of ornery and also really resented the fact that after Back to the Future, he was seen as, oh, he's a sure thing. Bobby knows what

he's doing. And he's like, I get off on people questioning me. I want to feel like I'm pushing against something. And when everyone trusts me, I get really uncomfortable. I wonder if there's a degree of like reading a script like this where you're like, eh, the script's like 60%. The germs are there. And I see this as a good excuse for me to use all my director toolkit, like sort of like, oh, I can do a Hitchcock homage. And almost saying like,

is it a better test of me as a director to try to make a great movie out of a script that's mezzo mezzo than taking a script that's a slam dunk that almost is kind of on rails and hard to fuck up? He needs something to slot in between cast away things. And he wants to make a Hitchcock movie.

So he may also just be kind of like, what thrillers do you have? Good enough, good fit. I disagree with the good fit though. That's what I don't think he was doing. I think his weakness is women characters. His films,ompson is so good in back to the future but that's because of leah thompson and that character is such a weird

plot and it's so interesting that that's her character but across the board i i like in castaway the woman the angel that comes in at the end. He just has, it's not his strong suit. So I think he wasn't able to recognize that in the script. And there's also, like when I was first watching it before, I didn't read about it. I just, I didn't remember anything about this movie. I didn't read any of this stuff until after. I didn't read about the Hitchcockian part. And then I began to realize it as I was watching it, obviously. But I don't think it just, it's because it's shot like a Hitchcock movie. I don't think it's just like the Hitchcock references. I think even the style of the marriage

feels like a Hitchcock movie. And so when I first, so one of those first scenes when she's in bed with Harrison Ford and they're about to have sex, the way they kiss is so weird. And as I began to realize how Hitchcockian the movie was, I was like, maybe it was intentional. Literally, the way he had them kiss was like

their mouths are kind of like mushed up against each other. And they're about to have sex, but it feels so old fashioned. And at first I took it as them, as Robert Zemeckis not knowing how to make a sexy scene but i actually think he might have been doing it intentionally as a throwback a little bit also like harrison ford just doesn't have sex on screen much like there's something unsettling about harrison ford in this movie right away like because i'm just like he's just like a guy with a job in the house like and he's normal because like in that for that scene you're talking about star like he's just like a guy with a job in the house like and he's normal because like in that for that scene you're talking about starling he's shirtless he looks sensational

like he looks like just like the greatest kind of like hot dad and he's like typing on his laptop or whatever this is the very end of his like classical hotness period right like after this it's like fucking k-19 and hollywood ham homicide he's got the earring everyone's like is he our weird grandpa who's like now moved to malibu and is trying to like rebrand himself but he does know how to be like that scene is so weird and the way he when she says do you want to around? And he makes this smile that is so creepy and weird and not creepy to gesture at the, what's going to come at the end of the movie. Just like you,

way you look at him and you're like, this man has never had sex appeal, which makes your brain short circuit. Cause it's Harrison Ford. And he is, had had nothing, but he's had so much sex appeal before that. And even if you haven't seen him have sex,

he is the most charming. In Working Girl. Yes. Working Girl is number one, I would say. Even setting aside Han Solo and Indiana Jones, in a rom-com, he knows what to do. Oh, sure. And so suddenly it's all gone. And so I think it's a combination of Harrison Ford getting to that point that you're talking about, Griffin, where he suddenly like loses it all, but also maybe a filmmaking choice. That's the other weird thing about this movie,

though, is like, as you said, Starlee, you read the reviews and everyone is slamming of like, Zemeckis has done this a thousand times. He knows he can do it. It feels like his heart's not in it. And I'm like, this movie is about directing above all else. Like, this feels like a movie where Zemeckis is trying to will this into being a classic through sheer directing, you know? Whether or not he succeeds, it doesn't feel dispassionate to me.

There might be calculations in it in like, oh, it'd be fun to do this type of movie. Oh, this feels like the right kind of movie to make in the time I have while Tom Hanks stops eating fries. Like, all this shit. Like, there are weird sort of asterisks to it. But all of that stuff and even just like I want to see if I can reframe the star personas of two big Hollywood stars, like all this sort of shit.

And even just that sort of challenge of like, oh, you never really see Ford play a villain. really see Ford play a villain. And also, weirdly, for a guy who is such a sort of like towering figure of like modern Hollywood hunkdom, you realize watching it, oh, Harrison Ford is weirdly kind of asexual in a lot of movies. Yeah. Like he is known as such a classical hunk, but it's almost always through suggestion you know yeah and you think about usually like i like witness i mean he's so hot in these movies like no question like i'm not i'm not saying and working girl has the that at least seared in my memory shirt change scene that is he is very cute and working girl but it is usually archetype like it's usually not like and it feels like he's kind of like haze cody in a certain way where you're realizing like

there is this oddly old-fashioned thing about him where you feel like when he kisses miscell pfeiffer it's like when you watch certain films where kissing was thought too scandalous in like you know the early to mid 1900s where when the two movie stars have the romantic kiss, they're just like smushing their faces together. Their lips are tightly closed. Like he does have that coming here. You have to say the coming here. The way that they kiss and then you might as well,

it's like in old movies where they just like slide to the next scene. It feels like you are not allowed. Cut to the train. Yeah, you're, yes. Yes. Yeah, you're not allowed to train yeah you're yes yes yeah you're not allowed to see what happens next it's so odd and i think i think it's a combination of these particular actors and robert zemeckis and all of them actually being weirdly old-fashioned

and also and also i think robert zemeckis possibly did not know what a good version of this kind of movie is i think he also might have because a good version of this kind of movie is. I think he also might have, because he had not made this kind of movie, he might have been shown the movies that we've all watched. It's kind of when I, sometimes I have friends who didn't grow up on TV and then they'll watch a bad TV show and think that's like a great thing because they've never seen anything like that. Like he also could have seen the bad psychological thrillers and been like, this is what I'm actually supposed to be striving for. Well, like, you know, we we sort of been talking about this, but the I feel like watching all this films in order as we have, you forget like, right. He was like really a comedy director with a capital C. That's what he was.

His student films were comedies. director with a capital C. That's what he was. His student films were comedies. Spielberg hired him when he said, I finally want to do a comedy to write 1941. You know, his first like six or seven movies are all comedies first and foremost. If they're genre mashups, the second thing is, you know, it comes after comedy. Honestly, Forrest Gump is a drama like but it is obviously has many comic elements it's the pivot point classifiable contact is but contact is the first movie he made that is a right i won an oscar and i'm a serious adult filmmaker now that's right before this 97 forrest gump wins the oscar and that's like contact totally earnest totally serious no comedy uh what lies beneath and like contact you know not a flop but i do think was a little a

little dinged at the time and he maybe was wounded by that because it's right a good movie um but um so maybe he's like okay well i guess i need to make like yeah pulpy stuff you know what lies beneath and cast away are two crowd-pleasing movies exactly like they are movies that can appeal to grown-ups they are not like completely hacky but like he definitely is like i'll make thrillers like i'll make like you know i'll edge your seat stuff cast away to me is such an exploration of manhood in a great way like I have made fire is the epitome of like men's secret you know like they're they're burning their most burning desire but actually because he

made contact right before this contact is what I forgot when I said that he doesn't know women characters I've been in contact a long time. But that is very much, yeah, I remember loving contact. So I actually have to amend what I said. So maybe contact and Castaway are the ones that are supposed to go together. And then there's this weird film in between. But Starlee, I mean, you're making an interesting point, which is like that first hour of this movie through a certain prism is kind of the counterpoint to Castaway, where it's like this is a movie about a woman of the same age left alone with her thoughts.

Yes. To a degree, it's a woman in seclusion, you know? And it's not like Castaway is the physical version of this. He's stranded. But what lies beneath is like, well, now the daughter's out of the house and he's really obsessed with his work. And they've moved to this little fixer-upper. Like, how does she function if she's left alone in a house for this long?

And what is she most want? What is her version of I have made fire? Like, when she's wandering around, like, they keep just being like, you have your house and you have your garden. You must be so busy. And it's so clear. Like, they cannot stop mentioning that garden and house.

The garden, which never plays into it at all. Like I said, her entire character is based on this move and this garden that she's supposed to be tending to that never get tended to. And so he just he doesn't he doesn't seem him or Clark Gregg, they don't seem interested in exploring or even asking the question of what she most wants. We just know what she's afraid of losing. It's annoying because it feels like the movie is so close in so many ways. It's like if you lay out all the elements, it's like this should be great. And I while watching it, I had that excitement of like there are few things that get me more jazz than watching a movie take its time, but laying out all the pieces where it's like this movie has the confidence to just keep me there even though I'm confused even though I don't really know what it's trying to say because it keeps

on deliberately laying all these breadcrumbs and I'm gonna trust that they're gonna fucking make like you know a proper dish out of it at the end of the day I guess in the last like 20 minutes I understand thematically what the main thrust of the movie is yeah almost all lines up thematically what the main thrust of the movie is. Yeah. Almost all lines up thematically. But there's a lot of stuff that's either done sort of like sloppily or things that are sort of abandoned. And it feels like it should all they they have everything they should need to make it a full letter grade better than it is. For sure. The problem is every single thing is only about leading to the end. And you can't actually do that. You actually have to have things add up. It can't be a straight line. Adding up is not the same as a path that you're just on that you're kind of you like you get the

the the tram gets set in motion. And so every thing that they discuss is about this one thing. I read the Ebert review and he said like, you know, much has been made of this being Zemeckis' Hitchcock homage, but I think Zemeckis made one fatal mistake, which is having the film go into the supernatural, which is a thing that Hitchcock wouldn't do. And I,

I like, I keep going back and forth on that. We're like, to some degree, I like that the movie crosses that threshold. I think he's, I think that's good. I read that too. I disagree so strongly.

I think the strongest part of the premise, the idea that he was using effects the way that he thought Hitchcock would, and it actually had such, they had such restraint to them because of that. And there was so much care put into them. The problem is the writing. The problem is that the movie does not get constructed.

He's wrong. Like that premise is the best thing about the movie. But also it's a structural issue. I mean, it's like if you just lay out what the main thrust of this movie is, right? It's like, okay, woman, empty nester, only child, leaves the house, husband, workaholic, you know, somewhat emotionally distant. Now in a smaller house, in a smaller town, more left alone, becomes obsessed with her next door neighbors, you know, who seem to be fighting. And when the wife disappears, who she's never actually met,

becomes convinced that she's been killed by the husband and she's trying to solve it so like you're like yeah the first half is rear window right the first half is rear window and then it just makes this like very sort of dramatic shift of like well there's the james remar the the uh the scene where she confronts remar and is like yeah you killed your wife i I know you did it. The whole first half of the movie is, it's the voyeuristic thing. It's the what's happening on the other side,

you know, is the grass green or less green with our next door neighbors. They seem to be more passionate, but also maybe something dark's happening there. What's going on? Then it feels like it's heading into the, is she crazy or is it real?

Kind of like that sort of thriller which is my favorite sort of type of thriller and and then there's the miranda auto scene where i thought oh is the movie about here's the wife but is it really the wife or is he presenting a new person to be his wife i was like is it one of those movies where there's a cover up and everyone's trying to convince her that she's making something up in her mind,

but actually it's just a very elaborate cover-up? And then, no, it's like the Miranda Otto scene just kind of like completely closes the book on it. And then Michelle Pfeiffer goes,

oh, no, everything I was paranoid about, there was this shit going on with my next-door neighbors, but that was actually just a kind of weird relationship that I let my paranoia misinterpret.

But then the other stuff on top of that that I viewed as supernatural was real, but had nothing to do with her because she's not dead. There's this unrelated missing woman case that I had forgotten about and that must be the ghost. And now I'm trying to solve the different mystery of what does that woman have to do with my husband when you put it like that

it's just like that's like two totally different movies and they're thinly linked by the fact that she's sort of been seeing spooky stuff the entire movie but that's about it like I could see more being layered in where it's like well no one

believes her when it's real because right right it's a boy who cried wolf when it wasn't real but they don't really do much of that because once the first half is over like you said we're really just in sort of like cat and mouse harrison ford michelle pfeiffer stuff right that's the other thing like there's not much time before it's time for their showdown. Which is just a different movie. Yeah, and it doesn't make

any sense, too, because the way that he acts, the neighbor, the way he acts actually has no logical explanation. Yeah, he's threatening her.

He's not answering questions. Right, he seems like a bad husband. Right, yeah. I mean, there definitely is drama at that end of the pick is so great i did like the scene when the neighbor talked about why she's talking through the fence no no no later on when she explained they wouldn't have to come up with an explanation to to tie a bow on this plot line that we're never going to

hear from again uh when when when she says, have you ever loved someone so much that you like, like that she fled because she loved him too much and they were too passionately entwined. There's some pathos to that that doesn't get explored in the movie. I mean, there's all sorts of things like that in this movie that I wish they had actually

understood. It's almost like they wrote this script without understanding what the gems were. So they had no way to actually tie it together and follow it thoroughly. But then the other weird thing is I read that Clark Gregg, Sorkin wanted Clark Gregg to play one of the roles on Sports Night, and he had to turn it down because they were like, this movie is going and we need you on set for rewrites. Like this very much seems like a thing where he was like the writer. He was there every single day.

He was the only guy with his hands on this script. I mean, certainly he is the only credit screen. But like that also feels like a hundred million dollar Robert Zemeckis shit where he's like, no, the writer will be here every day in case I need him. Right.

You know what I mean? Like, or he's just like, no, there will be no corners cut. I am Robert Zemeckis. Yes, yes. But also, it doesn't seem like there were other people

taking passes at this. No, no, no. Whatever. He's in charge of it. And also the fact that there was multiple drafts and it was actually revisioned on this script

and this was the final version they came up with blows my mind. Right. Like, you mentioned Hereditary, Starley, and like, a thing that Art Astor does really well is I hereditary, Starley, and, like, a thing that Ari Aster

does really well is I feel like the movie starts out and I'm like, okay, they're loading the plate up. Like, this is the first round at the buffet

and he's putting so much on the plate. Are his eyes bigger than his stomach? Is there any way he's going to be able to tie all these things together cohesively?

Have these things pay off, you know? Mm-hmm. And I feel like he's... Yeah. I think he does like he's yeah i think he's good at that i think that's one of the things that makes his movies exciting to watch because they have these epic run times and they seem kind of oblique at the beginning and you're trying to figure out where are all these elements going to converge and i get excited watching a movie like what not lies beneath where you're like okay so the remar stuff is a red

herring but it has to have some greater purpose right whether it's a greater emotional payoff or it ties into thematically what the movie is doing and it's like the second that's abandoned i almost start getting more excited because i'm like fuck okay wait wait a second like bobby's writing a huge check for himself. He's not going to put onion rings on the plate if he's not going to eat them. Like what's, what's going on here? And it's like, at the end, you're like, I guess it's, he's trying to do this sort of like wishy-washy, like look at marriages where it's like, well, what is it like? Pfeiffer has this marriage that's sort of like,

it's not just appearances, but it's a little lacking in passion. And is there envy over them? But then her husband who seems kind of banal is actually hiding this sort of like aggro energy, but it's all about her wishing that he lusted after her more. And he kind of views her only as like, this is the perfect kind of life that I want.

I mean, it's very tricky too, because like, it's very complicated why she's with, like the throwing in of her giving up her cellist career to be with him after her husband dies. Like that is unnecessary complications because it's not actually explored and every time they say it when they're like having their big heated fight and he

was like you were a single mother you love like we it's not a given that she ever why why did she have to give up a career why did it all have to stop because she married this i i feel like yes none of that is particularly well explored but it's all part of whatever the quote-unquote what lies beneath where it's like oh you know you think they're such a great couple and they've got a nice house and it seems so everything seems so perfect but actually there's all this drama and then below that also he killed someone and her ghost haunts them but like that that's layer two. First there's layer one. This is also the other

area in which like the interesting ways he's working with movie star personas and our relationships to movie stars actually almost works against the movie is that like you're watching for the first hour and you're like okay come on Harrison Ford is first build. This is the most

relaxed performance I've ever seen he's not gonna be in this movie just to quietly say look this is a really big project right he's gonna have skin in the game like you're like he's he's so underplaying it he's not tipping his hand to the fact that he's gonna turn out to be bad at all that you know he has to turn out to be bad. Because otherwise you wouldn't pay Harrison Ford $20 million to be in this movie. He wouldn't agree to do it if there wasn't more for him to play. So it's like there's that weird subversion of just like it is bizarre how low key he is. It is bizarre how quiet he is

because they're also not trying to, it doesn't feel like they're positioning it as like, oh, they're the perfect couple. Look at how much chemistry they have. Look at how red hot they are. It's like, they're just, they're nice. They're like a nice couple. It doesn't feel aspirational.

You'd have dinner with them. I guess that's a decent marriage. Maybe their dinner seemed kind of boring. I mean, they were a boring couple. And that's the shocking part. It's Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford. And the feelings I was having watching these two. She, I actually always was drawn to.

I did like watching her. She's so good. She's so good. But Harrison Ford, I've never experienced watching Harrison Ford at this stage where I wanted to see less of him. I felt slightly repelled by him. And it wasn't because where I wanted to see less of him. Like I felt slightly repelled by him and it wasn't because he turned out to be a sociopathic killer. I loved him as a killer. That was my, the best scenes with him. There was something very, very weird. I really deeply did not envy her being married to him, which is a shocking feeling to have when watching

someone being married to Harrison Ford in a movie. But I wonder if that's almost what he was trying to play of like there's an insincerity to the way this guy is playing the role of the perfect husband. I mean, that's another element that's like just sort of weirdly thrown into the mix of this movie is like the specter, the ghost, if you will, of his father. The idea that his father was this towering figure and he feels completely crushed by the legacy of his father and need to be like as important a man, have as beautiful a wife, as great a family, like all this sort of stuff that it's like the ideal husband Harrison Ford of the first hour is a guy who kind of can't even give a shit about going through the motions. You know, he's doing the bare minimum to play the role of the ideal husband. Because it's odd. Like, after this, Harrison Ford enters weird grandpa stage,

but also is like, sometimes it just feels like he doesn't give a shit. Like, he's just so lazy. He's asleep. He doesn't care anymore. And sometimes he's locked in still. And this is an era where it still feels like he would care. But you're watching it and you're like, he's doing so fucking little, but it doesn't feel like it's out of laziness. There has to be some thought. It's a choice. Well, some of

it seems like it had to be. I think in his mind, he was like, I'm contrasting this with which which is with the guy that you see at the end of this movie. But he doesn't, he somehow doesn't contrast it with charm. He contrasted it with dullness. He's like, if I can be so dull, you won't see it coming that I'm the bad guy. And then there's a part that I think he wasn't conscious of, that if you actually did kill someone, you might, you have to bury that so so deep inside yourself that it actually would dull you in a way that you would act the way he acts yeah and i don't think he's i don't be aware of that i know i might buy that as a conscious thing i don't know i mean i do think everything we're

talking about though it just feels like they stripped one too many layers out of this like to make it a spare and clean thriller like and again i enjoy this movie like i have no i just really do yeah it's it's very watchable but like it's just that there's like one thing missing like an episode of three people who like a movie trying to figure out why it isn't a masterpiece you know like right well yeah yeah but it's because it's because it's so clean the palette that's being presented to me, I can see where it could have been improved upon. Totally.

There's so much time to understand what could be better about it while still enjoying it the entire time. It feels a lot like Her in the Tub, where we're watching it, we can't do anything about it, we can't change anything. Her in the Tub,

which is the best set piece in the film obviously it's just kind of incredible yeah is that something that just feels like something like an idea director has like i have no idea if clark greg was the one who came up with it but like do you know i want to stage a set piece that's so tiny and yet can totally occupy an audience for 10 whole minutes you know like they can literally play out like an action scene, even though it's just a person in a tub trying to twitch her toes. It feels like a challenge

a director sets himself. How much can I strip out? I watch it for an hour. Oh, absolutely. I would lose my mind. I remember seeing Sorcerer, the freaking movie and having this like breakthrough and how I thought about like tension and filmmaking where it was one of the multitude of close ups of just

wet dynamite on the back of a truck. Right. And I was just like, this is the most nerve-wracking shot I have ever seen in a film and then I stepped back and went like this is like it could have been a second unit shot like this shot in and of itself holds no power but it is the build that this movie the the sort of like relationship and the understanding and the game that the audience has bought into of just now anytime he cuts to an inanimate object, it feels like a shot of like Jason with a machete. There's so much tension in an image which in and of itself has no power. And that kind of like directorial flex is like the bathtub scene in like a nutshell where it's like, well, part of the gimmick is the actress can't even express

the terror like the history of horror and thrillers is so much right but it's like the history of actresses being asked to play terror right you know this whole other thing we can get into and like the obsession with like true crime and women being terrified of being murdered and what that feeds into in our culture, you know? And like the narrative of the women surviving it and being able to sort of overpower it, whatever it is, but all conveyed through like the woman playing hyperventilating and the freaked out eyes and the running. Right. All that sort of stuff. The scream queens thing. And it's like, this is the opposite. It's like, here's a shot of someone almost unnaturally still

and kuleshev effect style we are projecting everything onto it and a shot that looks like it could be out of a nancy myers movie of just someone being like i need a bath something fierce you know becomes like terrifying it's that hitchcock thing of he gets that the shower is scary because you feel vulnerable in it. You know, like, it's an obvious connection. It's an obvious diagnosis, but like, it's still just great. Like, we are afraid of these mundane things because we are vulnerable when we're sleeping or when we're bathing or when we're like alone.

Like, it's just, it's just the easiest fear to prey on. But it's, it's, it works. It's, it's just the easiest fear to prey on, but it works. It's clever. And even, like, being buried alive and, like, not being able to do anything. If someone, like, the being paralyzed is a fear that is primal to us as well. I loved how, at the end, after the bathtub scene,

after the bridge, when the truck goes into the water and you see the water come in to the car, the way she plays it, she's so upset. You'd be upset no matter what if you were in a car sinking to the bottom of the ocean, but because she just survived it in the bathtub, she's just like, fuck, again? Like, she doesn't even get any time to enjoy not being drowned.

And there's actual, you can actually see her trauma that she experienced 10 minutes before from surviving this exact state. She's such a good actor. Like, she's so fucking good. Yeah.

And it's somewhat rare that someone is this good of an actor and this good of a movie star. Like, I feel like other people have said, like, Michelle Pfeiffer is like a character actor who tricked people into thinking she was a movie star because she was so beautiful.

But there is that thing where you never feel that protectiveness with her of like this is what the Michelle Pfeiffer movie star persona is. Versus someone like Harrison Ford where you're like they're playing on my relationship to him. Michelle Pfeiffer, you watch any Michelle Pfeiffer movie and there's kind of a clean slate, you know? You're like, I want to see what she's doing here because I'm not preset into thinking she has to be playing

this type of character. Sometimes she's very high status, people. Sometimes she's like a seductress. Sometimes she's a flibberty gibbet, you know? Sometimes she's cold. Sometimes she's funny. Like...

Is there... I've never thought about that with her. You're totally right. It's like meeting her for the first time every time. Yeah. Even though. Yeah, she's not exactly like you would never walk into a room and be like, I'm picturing like a Michelle Pfeiffer type for this, even though she's obviously like she has a look

like an undeniable look. It's not like she looks really different in her. No, she's not anonymous. She doesn't disguise herself. She doesn't transform herself in a showy way you know she almost always looks and sounds like michelle pfeiffer but but here's the thing that's because now i'm really thinking about this it's not like harrison ford stopped being a movie star after this it is unfortunately kind of like michelle pfeiffer stopped being a movie star after this yes she shifts into more supporting roles,

you know, like, and stuff like that after this. This is the end of A-list Michelle Pfeiffer. Yeah, I mean, I am Sam. White Oleander, I am Sam. Right, is the one that kills it. I mean, White Oleander, that's a supporting role. She ages out, plus becomes, like, a really rich wife. In real life, her real life thing happens,

and she ages. She's got that Boston legal money. But, like... The whole life thing happens and she ages. She's got that Boston legal money. But Harrison Ford, too, of course, still will give you an Indiana Jones, but also is basically about to shift into supporting actor mode. You see the shift in that smile that he gives her in bed. I'm telling you, that's when you see the tea leaves of what the future holds in store for it's just it's just weird that this unambiguous hit is basically the last chapter in both of their a-list movie star careers it's not like they made this and then it's like well you know i guess it's time to call it quits on them they made this they should get

make five more movies like this that's like the the Adrian Brody post-pianist path. I feel like that does happen. But that moment, Starley, that smile is like, that's it. There's the last glimpse of Harrison Ford's virility as a leading man, right? Well, you see, I mean, the smile, what it actually is. So it's like when you see Amber Valletta's face on Michelle Pfeiffer's face. He's in bed. He looks like Harrison Ford. He's got that chest. He is so it's like when you see amber valetta's face on michelle fiverr's face he's in bed he looks like harrison ford he's got that chest he is so handsome then they kiss and the he does this

smile the smile it do you remember it he like kind of puffed up his cheek and he's like yeah it's like it's so disturbing and when he does that face is when he turns into the equivalent of amber valetta and he turns into a different movie star from that point on. Right, but he's just like, I mean, right after this is Hollywood Homicide? Or no, K-19. Yeah, because right after this, and it's not even,

two years later is K-19, which he gets, of course, paid a ton of money for, as we've discussed. And then it's Hollywood Homicide and then a three-year break until Firewall. And that was really the last time, apart from in Indiana Jones, where he's the lead.

He gets his massive paycheck for Indiana Jones, and then he becomes more, as you said, David, of, like, a supporting actor. Like, it's like, Mourning Glory, Extraordinary Measures. In those movies, he's a co-lead. Right, exactly. 42.

In those, Cowboys and aliens 42 like those like the most you're going to get out of him is co-lead i don't think he's bad in every single movie post this and as we've talked about like he's very locked in when he needs to be like force awakens obviously but he's given up on what i. And he's interesting that it came after a hit, though. You're right. It sort of becomes Spencer Tracy post. Right. Firewall.

Right. Like he's like, now I'm a grump. Now I'm sort of the elder statesman. I have glasses. Character type. Yeah. And wearing suspenders or something. Maybe like he had had a couple bombs before this movie.

Like he random hearts and six days seven nights are both disappointments i mean random hearts full out bomb six days seven nights okay but right as you said underperformed disappointment right but still you know what i found remarkable about this movie though was his inability to access the charm except at the end when he's clearly there's something that's energizing him about about playing a villain but i would have thought that if you're a charming man that's the one thing you could always tap into but that's the question is it's like is that a choice or is this him it might be a choice the charm it's it seems like he's like i really want to play a total bad guy and have it be a surprise except after he loses the charm.

And then it sounds like he doesn't ever get the charm back in any of the movies again. Exactly. Exactly. And here's what I would contend. I would contend any movie in which he's successfully charming after this is based on the opposite of this algorithm, which is Harrison Ford acts like an inaccessible grump and asshole to a comedic effect for the first 75% of the runtime.

So the moment where he shows that he cares is kind of heartwarming. Like he has to flip it. You don't enter the movie with the innate, well, Harrison Ford, we all love this guy. Like I think he's great in Morning Glory.

I think he's very good in Force Awakens. I think those are two of the times he's really turned on and giving a shit. But both of those, it's like, come on, I hate this. Everything sucks. Everything's awful. Get away from me, you kids. And then when he shows he cares, you're like, fuck, yeah, Harrison Ford's still in there. But he never again

does what you're saying, Starlee, which is like, oh, you start the movie being like, well, Harrison Ford, of course. I would fuck him right now. Yeah. Yes. He could never age out of that for me. But in this one, it's before you see it,

before your very eyes. Yeah. The transformation happens and then we've lost him forever. And I don't feel good about it. It does. It's hard watching something like that. It's hard watching a movie star

lose something that you always depended on them for. And then like Pfeiffer, I remember, I feel like it was on Weekend Update. Someone did a bit. It was like a Weekend Update, like someone doing a fucking op-ed monologue. Pete Davidson type piece, as we would say now. It was maybe even like David Spade doing a Hollywood Minute or some shit. But it was someone joking about how many TV shows David E. Kelly had on air at the same time. And I remember someone just on SNL saying like,

David E. Kelly, you're married to Michelle Pfeiffer. Like, go home. Why don't you want to sleep with your wife? But that's what this movie's about too. Like, this is a David E. Kelly story. Every time he hears him force it to the lab or when they're in bed and he's like, she has to beg him to sleep with her. You're just like, what is going on? This is Michelle David Kelly story. Every time he hears him forward to the lab or when they're in bed and he's like, she has to beg him to sleep with her.

You're just like, what is going on? This is Michelle Pfeiffer. This is the most captivating woman in the world. But like, even a supermodel

is not as pretty as her. They had to find, to be her double it had to be a supermodel and still you're just like, eh. The reason I bring this up is because,

as you said, after this, she sort of starts to like, soft retire. Like, I feel like there's this thing where it's like yeah okay I am Sam and then white oleander where she's like a big part of the marketing campaign but she's a large supporting part and I remember there being this thing of like oh she's saying she might take time off and then she doesn't do a movie for a while and then it feels like post white oleander every time Michelle Pfeiffer's in a movie for a while. And then it feels like post-White Oleander, every time Michelle Pfeiffer's

in a movie, it's positioned as a comeback. Whether it's been three years since she made a movie or six months since she made a movie, every time everyone's like, oh, thank God

Michelle Pfeiffer's back. It never feels like she's fully like, I'm back to being a full-time actress. It always feels like she might never be in a movie ever again.

Yeah, and she starts to feel unrelatable to us as a – they're all unrelatable to us as movie stars, but there's a certain kind of movie star that I imagined her as. And then when she starts living the David E. Kelly life, I'm like, I don't know what this is. This is not who I thought she was. Right.

And then I don't care anymore. I also think there's – she has that energy of people just are like, you know, I'm talking about nerds, but still nerds like me where it's like, she hasn't won an Oscar. So anytime she's in a project with the Vegas prestige, people do sort of lean forward and they're like,

well, could this be it? You know, is this the one? Like, um, she's usually good. These,

you know, like when she shows up in like mother, she's a blast in Mother. She's so fucking good in Mother. Yeah. Like, you know, recently it's like she's done Marvel movies. She's fun in Maleficent 2. I mean, it's kind of a bummer. But that's like when she showed up in Mother, I feel like people were like, fuck, great.

It's been so long since we've seen Michelle Pfeiffer. That's the one, yeah. You're forgetting the three movies she's been in in the last five years. It's not like she's been gone forever. She just doesn't seem to work all the time. Well, Mother felt, though, like a different, it felt like she's doing something different than those last, I don't know what those last three movies were, but I assume they were action-y. And it felt like she had made a decision on a comeback. Mother, it felt like she tapped into the real reserve.

She was giving us the good shit for the first time in a little while. Yeah, and we were so here for it. She's in a movie called Where is Kyra that got like zero release. You know, it was a Sundance movie that just didn't, but that she is great in. And it's just unfortunately one of those movies that

it's a very quiet indie drama it didn't get picked up by the right studio or whatever and that was that but like you see her in it and you're like oh right she's absolutely you know capable of a great lead performance anytime maybe have you seen french exit david uh yeah i she's fun in that i mean she's fun that's a i i did not totally connect with that movie but uh she's again she's fun in that. I mean, she's fun. I did not totally connect with that movie, but she's, again, she's a total pro. But she's a rare, when you say she's, it's very rare for someone as beautiful as her

to be as fun as she is. That is a distinguishing trait of hers. She is so fun. She's so fun. And that, I don't know how, she's summoning something up. It's like, she acknowledges her beauty. She knows her beauty. While like, I don't know, she's summoning something up. It's like she acknowledges her beauty. She knows her beauty.

Wow. Like, I don't know. She's a good time. There's also this weird X factor with her where it's like it shouldn't be possible for someone as innately beautiful. Like just like she has glamorous bone structure. You can't make her dowdy. Right. Like, just like she has glamorous bone structure. You can't make her dowdy, right? But she is able to convincingly play low status people and to remain relatable as a sympathetic audience character.

Like, where I feel like people who are her level of beauty often have that struggle where it's like you can't accept them as an everyday person. It's just impossible. struggle where it's like you can't accept them as an everyday person it's just impossible it's because she seems like i think part of it is because of um what's it married to the mob is on her first start so she like cemented something about being like able to play a different class and when i see her beauty i feel like oh it's possible that you were the genetic anomaly in a family of non-beautiful people like it, she's so astoundingly beautiful that you don't even know. It's a little bit like I've seen, like, Cindy Crawford's sisters. And I'm like, Cindy Crawford just, like, something happened in that cellular formation

that made this extraordinary beauty. It's not like Kardashians. And so I buy it. And Michelle Pfeiffer, it's because she's not denying her beauty that makes me actually able to see her as so many different people i can buy her as the beautiful woman in all different walks of life who always knew she was beautiful um and then the different ways that that beauty finds paths in life i do i also just fascinating, though. Yeah. No, what were you going to say?

Well, what she was wearing in this movie, I did feel, because it was an era when it was like straight-legged, not like straight-legged khakis, bootleg cut all the way down, a little bit past the ankle with this bootleg,

and then like the kind of, like sandals, platforms, Payless shoe style, like everybody was wearing kind of Payless shoes no matter pay less shoe style, like a paint, everybody was wearing kind of pay less shoes, no matter what your class was. It did hurt to see that on Michelle Pfeiffer. I felt like,

how dare you put it on this goddess? Like that she had to live through this era and wear that stuff. Did you folks notice that there was like a big, bold sort of like, you know, significantly spaced on its own, in the end credits,

like Harrison Ford's outfits designed by credit. No. It was very odd because she didn't get one and he got one. And it's not like he's wearing like fucking Tom Ford suits. But maybe he just, he had some endorsement deal with like fucking Eddie Bauer. It wasn't like he was wearing normal.

I was going to say he's wearing like t-shirts and pajama pants and shit. But I like didn't, it wasn't like a brand name I recognized. It was like, did he insist on bringing in his own like costume person who was like Harrison's got very specific thread counts on his lounge wear.

It might be. I mean, there was, again, there was a luxury feel to this movie. The fact that they were Robert Zemeckis' only choices, that he was like, I want to make this movie and there's no one else who's going to be in this movie, but that made everything feel like the terms and conditions for people to be involved in this film. I think that's how he honestly kind of still operates.

And I do think that's part of his continued clout in the industry even though he doesn't make hits at the same rates it's like movie stars will still work like brad pitt tom hanks like are still just like oh okay sure you know robert you know denzel like robert zemeckis okay i'll i'll do that like he for whatever reason i I mean, I guess because he made Back to the Future, Roger Rabbit, and Forrest Gump, like, he will just get you the star. Yeah. I was also, I was thinking about watching this and trying to place it in, like, the time,

and there was that thing for a while where it was like, if you're an A-list movie star, you eventually have to work with all the A-list directors, and the mere teaming of one of those people with one of those people for the first time was enough to elevate any movie into being a blockbuster, being seen as a major tentpole release, regardless of what genre it was

or what premise it was. Like the idea is it's like, oh, fuck, it's like Harrison Ford and a Zemeckis movie for the first time like that meant something whether they ended up teaming up for a comedy for an action film for a psychological thriller like that was the selling point you know in the same way that i feel like minority report was the same thing of just like fuck spielberg and cruiser making a movie together that was the biggest that's the biggest example of it where it's like wow like you know would that happen now i mean leo is probably the only one like that's about it but who would it be with well it already was it was like it just tarantino i think leo i think him

in one time how was that but i think that that but no one the problem is no one cares about anything anymore no if Cruise had done it... That's what I was going to say. Like, as rumored, that would have maybe been enough. But, like, that's about it. I think Tarantino works with Blank is the only thing that potentially

has that kind of power. And I think there's the short list of other... Or Paul Thomas Anderson, maybe. But here's the thing. Yeah, right. Paul Thomas Anderson, I agree, like, we would get excited about, but none of his movies

have been crossover successes. The difference is that Tarantino movies play like populist blockbusters. So it's the idea of, like, if they announce tomorrow that Denzel was going to star in the next Tarantino movie, if Cruise was going to star in the next Tarantino movie. Like, there's that very short list of people who, if they were in a Tarantino movie, it would feel like holy fucking shit in the same way that I think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was largely sold as it's like there's certain people maybe. But but even just like if if they announced tomorrow that Scorsese's next movie was starring Denzel, it wouldn't feel as sort of like earth shattering. you know, like, Cruise. I mean, you talk about that tier of just, like, Cruise, Pitt, Denzel, who's the other one I was just thinking of? Hanks, Clooney, you know? Well, it's because what Tom Cruise is,

the epitome, is the best example, though, because I'm always interested to see what Tom Cruise does. And I'm especially interested to see him do something that's not expected. Like anything that will give me a more Magnolia type surprise. Right, which he stopped doing.

I know. Like he has that great 15, 20 year run where he's like, I want to work with every big director. And then the last five, six years, he's like, I'm going to work with the same three directors. Three directors over and over again.

So he said no to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? He was offered the part? He did. Well, I mean going to work with the same three directors. Three directors over and over again. So he said no to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? He was offered the part? He did. Well, I mean, but then the version of it I heard is that like Tarantino had it set as like, my casting options are in pairs. I would need both people to agree to do it. It was Cruise and someone else who I won't name. It was never going to be Cruise and DiCaprio or Cruz and Pitt.

Pitt and DiCaprio were a pair. Cruz and someone else was a pair. And there was maybe one other one he had. And it felt like, well, Pitt and DiCaprio were both equally on board and available. That worked out. And Tom Cruise was going to be Brad Pitt's part. He was going to be the stuntman I've never heard him make that clear

but that's the assumption it was going to be the Cliff Booth or whatever that's what it's called that would have been fucking thrilling it would have been cool it would have been very cool and Pitt is sensational in that movie

he won a fucking Oscar it says so much that Pitt won an Oscar for it and even still we're like And Pitt is sensational in that movie. But like, he won a fucking Oscar. It says so much that Pitt won an Oscar for it and even still we're like, but imagine how much better it would be. If Spielberg was going to make a real Spielberg movie now, a real one that we could trust and be like, this is the one that he's been waiting for and he's going to actually draw up, be Spielberg again. And he announced a cast, I would be excited still.

I also think part of it is now, like in order to feel bigger than the blockbusters, these franchises that have been going on forever and ever that are sold on so much more than just who's at the center of them. You know, like characters and storylines and interconnected universes have become bigger than singular stars. And the people who are able to command the biggest paychecks are usually conditional, baked into one role. They're so much bigger in this one part or this one franchise than they are outside of it that it's like you do kind of have to stack them up.

You do have to go, it's Pitt and DiCaprio. It's Pitt and Clooney and Damon. You know, it's Roberts and Hanks. And you also get excited by the combination. Like you want to see them acting against each other,

not just like having the most movie stars, not just like a Marvel movie, but being like, I'm interested to see how those two actors work against each other not just like having the most movie stars not just like a marvel movie but being like i i'm interested to see how those two actors are work against each other but that's the thing like the spielberg i feel like the spielberg announcement would have to be like three of those people together and you have to promise to that he was not going to use like any effect it would have to be like also a commitment to another kind of movie that he doesn't make anymore. Well, Bridge of Spies. I didn't see it.

Oh, Starly. You should check out Bridge of Spies. You gotta walk the bridge. Is it actually good? It's so good. It's good in a real way? Yes, absolutely. One of our favorite movies of the last decade. Okay. And he, right, he worked with Day-Lewis. He worked with Streep.

Where it felt like he's checking off. I mean, he made those movies for more than just to check things off. But like, okay, I never worked with Meryl Streep. Like, let's finally, like, collaborate. You know, like, stuff like that. But it's true that it doesn't have the same buzzy kind of feel. I mean, it's also because these people are getting older. Like, I mean, which is sort of sad to say.

But, you know. The sad part, though, is it's sad that they're getting older but it's more sad that we only allowed a limited number of people in so now we have to like be at the mercy of mortals who are aging like and then we also allowed things to fall apart in the last 20 years of filmmaking in a way where like we could have just kept going. We could have been like, okay, you're getting older. That's what happens. But instead we're-

It's also like, yeah, I mean, you talk about not letting people in. It's like so few actors have had a chance to become like full-fledged movie stars and not just like very valuable in this one sort of role in this one narrow genre you know or whatever it is and and and also it's partly like oh they spend like you know most of their year making this big franchise so then when they're not doing it they want to take like the third lead on a Netflix show which does start to make people feel less special and iconic.

Like, I don't mean to be sort of like, you know, sticking my nose up at TV. But there are people who are able to like do both and retain their power in doing both. Like someone like Viola Davis. It's like, well, she still feels very high status and like a big, big movie star, despite spending like seven seasons on an ABC procedural. Cause it was like a Viola Davis show. Like she brought the gravitas to it. And at this point,

an ABC procedural is so much more high status than a Netflix show. Most of the Netflix, like, like I will, she's able to retain her prestige in a way that I, like Hillary Swank. Now I'm just like, whatever, you're just a Netflix.

Like, even though that, that, I didn't watch all of the way. I only watched like half of the pilot. But it feels like I no longer trust any of the things that are coming out. And it's reducing them in my mind even before I watch the thing. I mean, I think the only two people who have kind of pulled it off in in recent history in the last 10 years are bradley cooper and jennifer lawrence to somewhat mixed degrees but like it felt like both of them were like oh fuck they've somehow figured out to be how to be an old-fashioned movie star and they both had franchises but the franchises didn't become the overwhelming thing for them they

didn't become like she's just katniss. You know, he's just fucking the hangover guy. Like, they had these hammocks of like, very successful series, but like, both of them also got to do their Marvel movies

that didn't feel overpowering, where they were supporting characters, you know, where it didn't like, you know, overrun everything else. But he turned himself

into a movie star. Like, he willed himself out of that. That's a very, very rare instance. You can feel the effort in Bradley Cooper saying like, I am going to be DiCaprio. I'm going to be a movie star who works with high tier directors and like is able to make prestige films feel like blockbusters. And I'm also going to become the high tier director. Right, right,

right. And Jennifer Lawrence, it feels like she went like too much too fast. Everyone got burned out on her, has taken time off and is now trying to like come back. But I think Robert Pattinson is trying to do what she's doing. I just don't know if it's working because his movies aren't seen as much. But I definitely think he is trying to do that. And he takes very bold choices. Pattinson's a weird thing because it's like massive franchise. Then everything he does outside of the franchise bombs. Then he's like, let's wipe the slate clean. I want to play weirdos in tiny movies. None of those movies are widely seen, but people start to build respect for him. And then now he's Batman.

And the question is, like, are people going to like him as Batman? And after Batman, is that going to translate to people wanting to see him do weirdo roles? And is he still going to want to do weirdo roles? Or is he going to have to do Batman and be like, this feels pretty good. That's the other question. Is Batman going to become his next Twilight until that ends? And then he goes back to making tiny weirdo roles. Like the balance is harder to do of making the non-franchise stuff feel as important to audiences as whoever the sort of titular A-list franchise character you're playing is.

I know, last night when I couldn't sleep, I watched the new season of the Netflix David Letterman show, which just came out. And because he has like, you know, a 45 minute hour long Robert Downey Jr. episode. And I was just like, yeah, Downey Jr. just doesn't do shit like this anymore.

I feel like he's so protective of his movie star image. The idea of watching him sit down and talk about his life for an hour feels weird. I want to see this. And David Letterman just sort of asked him point blank. He's like, so like, who are you now? Like, what do you do post Iron Man? Like at a certain point, you're like, like everyone's favorite, like, oh, this guy's got all the potential, like young, exciting actor. Then you become dogged with like bad press, you know, sort of like he's the most unstable.

Is he going to die? How long is he going to end up in jail? Sort of dude. They pulls himself up and becomes like the biggest movie star. And then clearly kind of it becomes a gilded cage situation for him where he's terrified of doing anything outside of Iron Man or anything outside of that budget level. And you're like him ending Marvel on such a high note where everyone was like, you ended it on your terms. Your last one was this huge fucking triumph in people's eyes.

And then you make Doolittle and it fucking sucks dog ass and everyone hates it. You know, like, what do you do now? He'd be an exciting one in a Tarantino movie. He's another one. He needs to work with a good director again. Like that's what he needs to do. Yes. If they announced him with any good director tomorrow,

it would be thrilling. It would be so exciting. And like he, you know, I mean, Fincher obviously got the, he was going to be an inherent vice, which is right.

In my opinion, a better movie if he's in it. And I like inherent vice. Like here's the thing. here's the thing that has had me thinking about him i really like the hbo perry mason which he spearheaded i threw it on developed for him for him yes i threw it on months after it had finished or whatever and with the caveat you sort of are told like look you know as with all these fucking prestige tv shows it like takes like three episodes to warm up it's a 10-hour pilot right right right and which but it is so insanely specific and interested in things

that no other tv show is interested in like where it's basically like getting into all kinds of weird stuff that was going on in LA after the depression or really during the depression. And it's written by these guys who wrote, you know, Friday night lights, who wrote the sun, which is the most famous episode of Friday night lights. Like it is just clearly a no bullshit show that he was very invested in.

And I'm like, why isn't he in this? Like I almost wish this was something he had actually followed through. Like, there's obviously some point at which, and Matthew Rhys is really good, but there's some point at which he's like, well, that's obviously just going to be too much,

so I'm not going to do that. Like, I'll just produce it. And I wish he had gone whole hog. Like, I wish he'd just taken it. Can I throw out my thought, and this sort of ties back to like the Harrison Ford thing as well. There is this sort of ties back to like the Harrison Ford thing as well.

There is this sort of thing when people get to the very, very fucking top of the mountain in Hollywood. Not that they have to be number one pole position alone. But when they're in that upper echelon where it feels like people get very protective of like, I never want to lose this. I never want to get dinged from this. So you start to become more sort of like you safeguard yourself from things that feel too risky, whether it's like this project feels too off or I don't want to lose the the veneer of I am a major blockbuster movie star. I don't want to star in something that feels smaller. I don't want to agree to ever take anything below my quote. Where it's like Harrison Ford would rather be

like the fucking grumpy old sheriff in Cowboys and Aliens than be the lead. For $10 million. Right, than be the lead in a movie for $2 million that's better suited to his talents. Right, this is an actually good script, yes. This movie is going to make it feel like I'm a bigger deal because they're going to put so much energy into,

look how much money we paid to have Harrison Ford stand at the side and go like, I don't like these aliens, you know? Well, it's interesting because at Harrison Ford's age, you get to the point where you're like, if I make the wrong choice, it's the last movie I ever do. Because no one will ever put me in a movie again. And so there starts to be that kind of stakes.

At Robert Downey Jr.'s age, what I don't understand is when you don't have money, you are forced to take jobs for money that you don't want to do. And the entire thing you're working towards is, I just want to have enough money so I can say no to this. Like that is the dream. And I, as someone who has never made real money, I don't understand why people do things that aren't good for money. Yeah. Because I've managed to live long enough not making any money but making good things.

So I'm like you can't actually be a person who does this. But they're in the exact opposite situation where they have all the money in the world and they keep saying no to the bad things so that they can keep getting paid. It just doesn't make any sense to me. That is the freedom that you earn from having money. And like Ford will take more chances. Downey Jr., I feel like what he's saying when he answers that Letterman question is, I'm trying to decide whether the most important thing for me

is retaining the idea that I need to get paid $20 million for a movie. Because if that's the case, I'm going to be making more shit like Doolittle. I hope it's better than Doolittle, but no one's going to pay me $20 million to be in a PTA movie. It has to be movies that seem like they can play just as well with five-year-olds in China, right? They have to be movies that at least have the potential to be that kind of like billion-dollar thing. Versus, do I just give it up? Do I say, I've made ungodly amounts of money,

I'm in the annals of blockbuster history for playing this fucking humongous character in this unprecedented blockbuster franchise. Do I just go, cool,

I'll do anything Fincher wants to do for any amount of money now. I don't need it. Let me just be good again. But that's the thing is like, it's not about, he's not giving up money. He's going to have money forever.

So to me, he's being like, I'm giving up the idea that people see me as Iron Man. If I do the wrong movie, my legacy is actually my last. What they start to know me as is a loser instead of a winner. It's no it's separate from the money. That is perfectly put. It's also this thing I think of like if you get to the top of the mountain, what you start to fight against isn't your rivals, your peers. You're not fighting to get jobs. You're fighting against the idea of what your legacy is. Yeah. Like you start, I feel like

going, OK, but how am I going to stack up to Gary Cooper when I'm dead? How is my filmography going to get looked at as a whole? And and the reality is like, you know, Harrison Ford, if he died tomorrow, he will always be Han Solo and Indiana Jones. Like, you know, Robert Downey Jr. will always be Iron Man. And they've also given great performances in smaller films and bigger films and what have you. But it's just like they feel just fucking safe from that. They shouldn't have to feel like, is there anything I could do in the next decade plus that would ruin my legacy? Because you can't. At least with Robert Downey Jr., I understand because he had such a huge career, then it kind of, then he went through that rocky period just

personally. I could see him being like, Iron Man is my comeback story of overcoming it all and being this strong guy. And if I do another thing past that, they're just going to be like, that guy's washed up. And there's like a psychological trap that he's made for himself. Because really what he should be remembered for as much as Iron Man is Chaplin and lessons. And there's also a thing that's happened. Harrison Ford is lucky because he has Indiana Jones and Star Wars,

and Star Wars is going to outlive everything in terms of memory. But a lot of what I've noticed, one of the strangest parts of living through this time is because we don't rent movies anymore and because streaming exists, a lot of movies are lost to time now. When I was little, I could watch old movies. People don't watch old movies anymore because there's so much new content and you can't rent, you can't find everything. And so I do think his legacy is being replaced with Iron Man in a way that it shouldn't be. But even then, he's Iron Man. going through this that makes Zemeckis feel so interesting to me is just like he seems kind of unconcerned with these questions as much as I believe that every time he makes a movie he's hoping it's a big blockbuster hit he has never made a movie that I think he didn't believe had the potential to be a populist crossover thing you know even his most bizarre films he's convinced

are going to be like because if you make things as weird as fucking Roger Rabbit and back to the future and Forrest Gump that become blockbusters, you start to go like, I can will anything into becoming mainstream. That's what the walk is. That's what Marwen is. He's like, this is something that people don't know that they want,

but they're going to love it. Yeah. This is why there should be a job. I often think it should be my job that where we where you get away where you save the people from themselves like he those that's a good instinct him taking those chances him making different kinds of films it's not that well i always forget that movie's called what's the terrible the state parole one mar mar welcome marlin yeah so i saw that that Christmas Day in the theater.

So it's not that I don't want him to do that. It's that I want him to let the people in who say, we need to actually talk about your instincts and tell you how to get, everything should be like Jerry Maguire where everything, the speech about, I know you for the man that you could be. Like, that's what I feel about these people

because they do have to be saved from themselves in order to become themselves and be the greatest version of themselves. This is such a fascinating movie through that prism of like, here's three heavy hitters all, like at the final stages of their no one questions them status.

And also the end of studios being willing to green light hundred million dollar movies based on three undeniable people and wheeling them into becoming blockbusters and and as you said starly it's like i'd rather see him make a bad movie that's risky yeah then then agree to do the flash because he can and he could probably that's what i was gonna bring up when he was considering the flash i was like it's over man like it's over even zemeckis is like fuck it i'll do a dc universe movie like it just it like ramey doing dr strange no offense to ramey like i'm excited or whatever like i'll uh whatever i'm happy he's making a movie but it does kind of just feel like okay all right they're just like, well, what fun thing can I do within this?

But you're also like, the bigger bummer is that Raimi has only done one movie out of like the big franchise machinery in the last 20 years. It's three Spider-Men and Oz reboot

and Drag Me to Hell. And it's like, you wish, even if they were disastrous, that Raimi had made A Welcome to Marwen. You know, that Raimi had made A Flight or whatever. But it's like, you wish, even if they were disastrous, that Raimi had made a welcome to Marwyn. You know, that Raimi had made a flight or whatever. But it's like, then maybe you don't get to make another one, I guess, is the fear.

I don't know. It's all the question of, right, how do you make sure you don't lose that status? Which is a fear that is silly. We gotta play the box office game, guys. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta play the box office game. Can I just say two things very quickly yes one after watching the trailer for this

movie where they reveal everything that he had the affair that the ghost is of the woman he had the affair with sleeping you know wherever I then was reminded the fucking scary movie two is so much about what lies beneath

and the trailer for Scary Movies 2 that was also the money shot was like someone's having sex with Tim Curry and Anna Faris I think

and then he says who and then he leans in and becomes like fucking Marlon Wayans or whatever he becomes one of the Wayans brothers it's just odd

that this film was that culturally like tapped in for one odd that this film was that culturally like tapped in for one moment. Not only was the film this big, but a parody movie was like getting its fucking shine off of parodying it specifically and then gone. Never talked about again. And again, and forgotten.

Like I remember all the twists from every random psychological thriller I ever saw and this was not, like, that wasn't clattering around my brain. But, like, a year later the movie was iconic enough that they were like, this is one of the three major thrillers that we're parodying in this sequel.

The other thing I want to say, not a March spotlight, but I worked once with a hairdresser. I was making small talk on a set and uh was asking her about like things she's worked on and she told me like yeah i always like to like collect things from the things i work on whenever they have like set dressing sales or prop sales i always try to get little mementos from the film what have i told this story before but so many years ago but i remember this story i believe you told it like during the like star wars days i if it's about the bathtub yeah

yeah and i was like so like what do you have and she was like little things little things little things the bathtub from what lies beneath and i was like you have the bathtub from what lies beneath like i hadn't seen it and i was like that's the fucking poster that whole movie is about the bathtub right and she was like yeah someone made fucking poster that whole movie's about the bathtub right and she was like yeah someone made a massive mistake they were not supposed to give that to me i mean you think they built multiple bathrooms yeah i guess they had multiple bathtubs but it's still just insane that she just has that in her house but doesn't didn't you tell me like she couldn't even use it like that it was not functional it was. It was like a freestanding clawfoot bathtub.

She was like, I can't figure out how to hook it up in my house. It costs too much money. I just have it as decoration in the middle of a room. The bathtub where Harrison Ford almost murders his wife. It's such an important prop. It's like having the Wittebago in your house from Breaking Bad. It's the titular role. Yeah.

Yes. Box office game okay so uh no it was i mean this is july 21st 2000 it was obviously number one at the box office you mentioned scary movie two guess what else is in this box office scary movie one yes it's number four just a i had three weeks, just absolutely. People forget like a true sensation. One of the biggest R-rated hits of all time, like when it came out. So big that they make the sequel

from beginning to end in like six months because they're like, we need to strike while the iron is white. Because Scary Movie 2 is 2001. Like they turn it around immediately. That's partly probably why it has a Wet Lies. They don't start writing it until January. It comes out in July.

All right. But so, all right. What Lies Beneath is number one. The movie was a big hit. It opens to 30 million. It made 300 worldwide. It's a big hit. What's number two, Griffin?

It's a movie that portends many of the trends we were dismayed about in this episode. Is it the movie X-Men? It's X-Men. Number one? Yes. It is the first X-Men, which if you watch it now, feels like a goddamn art movie compared to what followed.

Because there's not a lot of money on the screen in that movie. And it has this very weird. Yeah. And it has this like leather and steel aesthetic. Yeah. That is like just kind of Cutesy to look at now I mean it's not whatever

It's a funny movie Alright number three at the box office is a film I saw In an empty movie theater It's an animated film It's opening to 20 million dollars Fully animated? Yep From 2000 is it a Disney movie movie no is an art art animated

no and it's not a dreamworks is it no no is it is it an ad is it like a adaptation of something it's a sequel it's a sequel it's a a 2000s animated sequel that you saw alone. A Garfield kind of? No, no. I mean, like, not a movie you guys could ever even. Oh, oh, oh, David, David, David, David, David. I gave myself the biggest clue talking through it. It was an animated sequel from the year 2000.

Of course, it has to be Pokemon the Movie 2000. I mean, it's right there in the name. One of the funniest titles ever. Was that, why was the theater empty? Why was it titled that? Why was it titled Pokemon the Movie 2000? Oh, why was the theater empty? I think people were just not that hyped about

seeing Pokemon the Movie 2000, I guess. I don't know. I took my brother. Why is it titled that it like it you know in japan it was called like pokemon 2 or whatever and then like 99 is pokemon the first movie and then this comes out like nine months later and there was that trend of putting 2000 in titles right yeah but the new york times review said like it's called pokemon the first movie which feels like a threat yes and like this is very much like where they're like there's gonna be one of these a year guys and this is the 2000 one and then that's the thing it feels like a model number it doesn't even feel like a sequel it's like this is the 2017 jetta

and then there's basically only one more that I think they really mounted a significant American theatrical release. Like, you know, that died off pretty fast. But this one certainly opened big. You know, it drops off. But, like, I mean, this movie made $130 million worldwide. Like, it was a hit. How many weeks into it did you see it then for it to be an empty theater? It can't have been opening weekend because surely there would have been people there for that i don't remember i just remember it is an

empty theater experience why did you go see it i like pokemon david loves pokemon there you go i was all in i was all in i mean what am i i'm 14 years old at this point and i'm still like i'll sneak in the pokemon movie why not see and See, and I love bullshit for babies, but I distinctly remember like Pokemon the movie, the first movie, you know, October 99, all in, mega event. By the time Pokemon the movie 2000 comes out, I'm like, I'm over Pokemon.

Which is what happened. It's what happened. That's why by three, it's like, okay, I guess these just go to video Right Miramax is releasing it now Right right Number four is Scary Movie Number five is another grown up blockbuster

That is pretty good Hmm Movie for grown ups I mean it's not like What Lies Beneath It's a special effects driven You know thriller You know very intense movie But it is absolutely a movie for

grown-ups and i i don't know that it would get made now i don't know maybe it would is it like is it like a big movie star big director movie like this big movie star i at the time a big director although he's nearing the end of his of his hollywood dominance or whatever. Is it a genre film? Oh, oh. Is it The Perfect Storm? It's The Perfect Storm. There we go. Clooney, Wahlberg, Wolfgang Peterson.

I mean, like, what do you call that? It's not really a genre movie. It's like based on a bestseller. I don't know if grown-up movies is the first description, though, of it, though. Because it's an action movie kind of but it's also like it's a disaster disaster right yeah yeah because like it's really just guys on a boat being like what do we do and then they die right okay but disaster but

disaster comes before grown-up sure it's one of the few clooney movies where he's just like it's not i mean wolf king peterson is obviously a major director but he's not a movie star for hire yes yeah yeah and he's good like you know he's like and and i'm sure it was a pain in the ass to make like they're in some fucking tank getting water dumped all over them for months like it must have sucked i also think starly like the the difference is like most disaster movies are like here's Tommy Lee Jones. He's going to fight a volcano. Right. It's like here's a big movie star and you're going to see them triumph over the odds.

And Perfect Storm is like a disaster movie based on a true story where everyone knows the ending is bad. Like it's not like here's how these guys survived this. It's not even Captain Phillips where it's like a story of everyday heroism. It's this weird Captain Phillips where it's like a story of everyday heroism. It's this weird like summer release. The poster is a small fishing boat getting engulfed by a wave and everyone was like, fuck, yeah, I want to see these guys die. I want to see how these guys grapple with their mortality. I didn't know they died. And so when I saw it, I was devastated. And I still I don't I found them. I wasn't even that into the movie itself.

But I still find the end unbearably sad. It is. And I can't watch it. It's intense. And it's so sad. I think the ending is the best thing. The way it's done is really, really, really well done. And I had no idea.

I did not know they died. I've never seen it. And that's an ultimate. No, no. I mean, I knew it died. I know they died i've never seen it and that's an ultimate uh no no i mean i knew it died i knew they died but uh that's the ultimate like me at this age i absolutely will never see that movie that's gonna stress me out too much now i'd probably like it they make it because it's also an imagined fate i mean we know the fate but it's imagined last moments they don't know what the last moments are so what he chooses to make the last moments be i thought was really good smart fuck no one needs to watch perfect storm it's not a bad movie not a bunch of characters in sweaters wet and again everything

that is made from those kind of movies in comparison to the movies that are made now they all just seem automatically better uh starly thank you so much for being on the show. What an interesting series of conversations, this movie, Unhooked. Unhooked. Yeah, it is one of those movies where you have to think about, like, the entire history of Hollywood films

by watching it. Like, what it was coming out of and how it disappeared and all of that. It's a real time capsule and it really makes you wonder... Like what it was coming out of and how it disappeared and all of that. It's a real time capsule and it really makes you wonder. It just made me think so much about the space of the last 20 years and what happened. Because this shouldn't have been an ending point, not only for these actors, but also not for this type of movie. And it kind of wasn't.

The lack of a healthy, balanced ecosystem in American movie making. And unfortunately, I don't think things are going to get better post-pandemic. Election Profit Makers continuing past the election. This episode will be coming out past election as well.

But hopefully the show is fun for you to keep doing at that point if you catch my drift. I don't want to say anything because I don't even want to speak the words. It's a great show. It's a great show. It's brought me much comfort in a time of stress.

In an electoral moment of stress. It's replaced the psychological thriller genre. It is now providing the comfort that those ones provided. And if you want to watch a comedy with elements of psychological thriller, watch Search Party, which is on HBO Max and gives both Starley and I residual payouts. So feel free to watch all three seasons of that show and season four coming sometime soon. all three seasons of that show and season four coming sometime soon.

Less, less now that it's on streaming, but yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Um, you're also truly, I think my favorite part of search party,

your, your performance on it. I'm not just saying that it's the best. Uh, that's, that's my favorite performance I've given and I've spent, uh, the following years trying to get anyone to hire me to do something like that

again. Uh, and instead people just want me to fucking drop coffee cups anyway see i need to they just need to ask me what's right and wrong and i will tell them let's start the campaign they're all there yeah uh just starly kai for grand arbiter of entertainment industry it's an elected position the living tribunal of Hollywood. Just with scales and she weighs. It's just showing,

if the stuff already exists, being more like this, less like that of this person's work. Yeah, I also just like talking about all this shit. It's like I'd rather play stuff where it's playing off the fact that I seem non-threatening, you know, and I'm able to

subvert that than playing some guy who looks like he's going to be fucking frazzled. It's, it's so subtly done. I, I just, I really do love, I've watched your episode so many times. I remember the conception of your episode. I remember seeing your episode and it is just, I mean, you've been in, you were in several episodes, but the dinner party, I think it, you're so great in it. I'm not just saying that.

Thank you. That means, that means a lot to me. Well, now I feel weird ending the show, but thank you for saying the very nice things that you just said.

And thank you all for listening. And please remember to rate, review, subscribe. No, no, no. I just don't know how to take compliments. Go to blankies.red.com for some

real nerdy shit go to patreon.com slash blank check for blank check special features where we're watching the alien movies other tense movies starring adults although films that pretend more the future of franchise obsessed filmmaking

thanks to Leigh-Montgarnier for our theme song Joe Bone Pat Reynolds for our artwork that pretend more the future of franchise-obsessed filmmaking. Thanks to Leigh Montgomery for our theme song, Joe Bourne, Pat Reynolds for our artwork, and for Guto for social media and for helping produce the show. Tune in next week for Castaway with Nia DaCosta, director of the upcoming Candyman movie, and Captain Marvel 2 2 agreed to be on

our show. So tune in for that next week. I think it's a really fun ep. And as always Harrison Ford smiles weird?