Blank Check with Griffin & David - Zero Dark Thirty with Demi Adejuyigbe

Episode Date: November 12, 2017

Demi Adejuyigbe (The Good Place, Gilmore Guys) joins Griffin and David to discuss 2012’s American revenge political thriller, Zero Dark Thirty. But is the CIA agent this movie is based on somewhat problematic? Can either host do a decent Gandolfini? Will Jason of Friday the 13th fame begin hosting a new season of Celebrity Apprentice? Together they examine watching this movie in the current political climate, the brutal portrayal of enhanced interrogation techniques, Will Smith in Netflix’s Orc cop movie Bright and more.

it's their west point and how close is it to the house? About a mile. 4,221 feet. It's closer to eight-tenths of a mile. Who are you? I'm the motherfucker that podcasted this place, sir. You're an idiot is what you are. I am. That is true. Hello, everybody.

My name is Griffin Newman. I'm David Sims. This is a podcast called Blank Check with Griffin and David. We are hashtag the two friends. We are two friends who do a podcast and that's a competitive advantage because no one else can say that about their podcast. Don't you dare deny it. I won't. This is a podcast

about filmographies. Directors who have had massive success early on in their careers and were granted a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they wanted. Sometimes those checks clear, and sometimes they bounce. Motherfucker. Your iPad opened Twitter during your whole spiel. It took that long.

Yeah. My iPad is moving slowly. Seriously. It's got a real Gandolfini kind of gait to it. It's breathing heavily. Yeah, your iPad opens Twitter like Gandolfini taking a seat. Yeah, hold on. That's bad.

That's bad. That's bad. I thought it was fantastic. I thought you nailed it. Brett Hellman does a good Gandolfini. That's the only one I can think of. I feel like other people can do Gandolfini. I feel like I've heard some of those.

I've heard good Gandolfinis. It's kind of high-pitched, though. You've got to go like, it's like Casey Affleck but 300 more pounds. You know what I mean? It's a very specific thing. Yeah. We've already talked. I made the joke when we did our Interstellar episode, but I still can't get over.

How in Interstellar, the boy goes up five octaves. Yeah, there's the cut when you're seeing the aging videos. Hey, Dad, how you doing? I got a B in chemistry or whatever. Hey, Dad, it's me. I'm 28 now. I'm Casey. Hey, how's it going oh farming's hot it's like

crazy not coming back murph he's not coming back you're not coming back and also that tophor grace isn't it at all i think he's in it i always i always remember that he's in it because it struck out to me so much in the movie that he was in it for such a little time that i was like just don't have him. And there's, I believe there's no actual like introduction. She's just sort of walking down the hallway and he's like, Oh, Hey,

I got this file for you or whatever. And you're like, it's Topher Grace. Did he just like wander on set? I saw you guys talking about Interstellar the other day on Twitter. And I decided to check out the trailer again. Cause I was like, I think I need to revisit this movie.

Cause I, I undervalued it the first time around, but in watching the trailer, I was like, is that, is that David? Well, I saw Topher Grace the show, I was like, is that David? Well, I saw Topher Grace, but then I was like, is that David Oyelowo?

David Oyelowo, man. He's got one scene. He's a high school principal in the apocalypse. He is indeed. Very concerned about textbooks. Matthew McConaughey has a whole joke about his ass that he delivers where he's like, it takes two numbers to measure your ass,

and only one to measure my son. It's like this very Christopher Nolan complicated joke. Which was actually just, that was pre-roll. When they were blocking, he just started describing David Yello's ass. McConaughey was just like, I'm going to come right at this guy. I was going to say, are you ready? Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm not interrupting your joke.

No, I'm just kind of glad you did, because I started doing a McConaughey, and then I was like, no, I can't. Oh, can you do it? I was just going to be like, no, I got sorry. I'm not interrupting your joke. No, I'm just kind of glad you did because I started doing a McConaughey and then I was like, no, I can't. Oh, can you do it? I was just going to be like, Nolan, I got a great joke about a yellow ass if you want to roll on this one. But that's not. It's not bad. It was relaxed. It's pretty good. It was very relaxed.

I think that's the key to a good line. The only thing I can do is I can say MRI. But you kill it. And then. MRI. My wife's MRI. They had a machine called an MRI. Every Nolan movie MRI. They had a machine called MRI. Every Nolan movie has a thing about someone's wife dying.

It's true. There's a lot of dead women. It's very true. Well, here's... How's this for smooth transition? Why was Topher Grace in Interstellar? Because Jessica Chastain read the script, and she said,

if I'm kissing someone on screen, it's gotta be Topher Grace. Give me that venom, baby. Or I quit. And Jessica Chastain is the star of the movie that we're discussing today. The movie. That was Gandolfini's back. I was gonna say, but that's my Gandolfini.

Hey, movie. This is a miniseries about the films of Catherine Bigelow. That's right. And it is called... Oh, that's why you were loading Twitter. Pod 19, The Widowcaster. Damn right it is. Now, at the time you listen to this episode, we will be almost near the end of our miniseries.

That's true. But we are recording this as the first episode of our miniseries. Yeah. The results are just in on our incredible miniseries name poll. It was between that and what was it? What was the other option? Zero Podcast-y? Yeah. I think the other option? Zero podcast-y? Yeah.

I think that's fine. Zero podcast-y. That's fine. Which is the film that we're talking about today. Now, the reason we're doing this episode first- Wait, no one said point cast? We like to have pod and cast on the title. You gotta have both.

Because it's a podcast. Well, what about podcast? You have to say it out loud. A lot of people suggested, instead of the Hurt Locker, the podcast. Yeah. Our fans are very creative and original. Podroitcast. That would really land smooth.

I think so. Welcome to Podroitcast. We have a great guest today who's already landed like five great jokes, which is what we love. We love it when our guests talk before we introduce them. But I said seven jokes's already landed like five great jokes which is what we love we love it when our guests talk before we introduce them but I said seven jokes and he landed five great ones

he has been marking them off under the table there's notches this table is destroyed now I'm interrupting my own introduction no no but we see sometimes

we talk for a while and our guest is sitting there silently and we kind of go like ah you know we like to get them in there you don't have to do that with me I'm here to interrupt you're pro you're pro. You're a pro.

You're a pro because you're a podcaster yourself. That is true. Host of Gilmore Guys. Correct. TV writer. Yes. Written for At Midnight

and The Good Place. Well, I didn't write for At Midnight but I worked on At Midnight. And then is there a project you can say that you're working on right now? The thing is, I just finished working on a TV show but I'm not allowed to talk about

it, which sounds like such bullshit. Oh, that's true. In the future, maybe I will be allowed to say at least that it was a show on Freeform. That means nothing to a lot of people. ABC Family. Formerly ABC Family, currently a different name. Sorry, I don't mean to bring up

the ghost of ABC Family. How dare you? What if by the time this podcast comes out, Freeform has changed their name again? Well, then no one will know what I'm talking about. That's fine. Because it was originally Fox Family. It was Fox Family. That was what had Freaks and Geeks. And then it became ABC Family.

Right. And then it was ABC Family. I used to watch a show on ABC Family. That's all I got for you. That was it for me. That was it. Demi DiGioia is here. Hello.

Did I pronounce it? You did. Everyone is always concerned about saying my last name wrong, but then most people get it right. Hey. You did a great job.

It is pretty phonetic. I think it's just one of those names where you second guess yourself. Sure. People get in their head. Yeah. And you're Griffin Newman.

I'm Griffin Newman, which you'd be surprised how often people mess up my name. Really? People spell Griffin wrong. They give you an E there. I've seen that a lot.

And people call me Griffith a lot. That's weird. Weird? That's a weird move. A lot. That's not a name. Yeah, I feel like any time I start a new job, I have to spend the first five days correcting people. You ever just, like, I'm going to go by Griff?

I try to. I seriously try to to avoid that and people still think I got this hold on one second uh Griffith walking the set because you're like hearing it's like PAs who are like walking and they keep on saying your name over and over again I just want to be like uh Griffith's a new boy he is a brand new boy I'm a new boy look at his shining face yeah I haven't shaved for weeks I look like you look like trash I look like a homeless computer hacker

I look maybe more run down than I've looked in years did you say that on stage because that's the kind of self-deprecating stand-up joke that I would see

in an open mic yes I look like a homeless computer hacker that's one of my I don't want to brag but that joke has gotten upwards of three laughs

in an open mic that's the one that you mime yourself hitting a home run to. Right, because most comedians, the hack thing is you get up and you start out by going like, I know what you're thinking, this guy looks like, and you do that bit right up at the top. But I go, you got to close with that. You start out with hard-hitting political material, and then I go, and I know what you thought. This guy looks like a homeless computer hacker. Thank you very much, everybody.

I'm Griffith Newboy. Because if you predict their mindset for the last five minutes, it's like a magic trick. They're like, whoa, that was what I thought, and they have to clap. Hey, can I pitch a tag for you? So you're wearing a hat. I am wearing a hat. After you do that joke, then what you reveal is you've been wearing two hats the whole time. There's a smaller hat underneath the other hat.

So, yeah. You can take that. And it's also hat on a hat. Hat on a hat. That's a great hat underneath the hat. I love it. Yeah. You can take that. And it's also hat in a hat. Hat on a hat. One of Griffin's favorite phrases. I use it all the time. Like a pun on cat in the hat. It's like joke on a joke.

Yeah. You know, it's like you're overriding a hat in a hat. Right. But it also works as like a cat in the hat kind of thing.

The thing is, what's the second hack? I think the second hack should be something that's like, you've been grift on it. And then you reveal it and people are just like, whoa, okay, I've been grift. Oh, God.

Can I go like total sidebar? I'm not worried. Can you go further? Wait, was this main podcast? I'm going further, I feel. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Rick Baker was hired. The makeup artist?

Right, was hired to do the makeup for Cat in the Hat. And they fired him like six weeks before production. About Welch film. Right. They said his design was too disturbing. Haven't we talked about this? Maybe just off-mic. Wait, so the thing they went with was the less disturbing option?

Which is so upsetting. The design in the movie is so upsetting. Very weird movie. A looks nothing like the Seuss drawings. No. And B is really fucking creepy. Yeah. And I like, at least twice a year, I go, fuck, let me give it another shot.

And I go on to Google and see if anyone's leaked out images of the Rick Baker design. Because those things will come out where it's like, oh, here's Nicolas Cage's Superman costume. Yeah, right. 12 years later, it's on the internet. But it's never. I wish I could see fucking Rick Baker's Cat in the Hat design. We got to wait for Mike Myers to become like a serious actor and then all that shit.

Right. Yeah, so the Gong Show has to go for four more years and then he's finally going to start his comeback. I mean, what's Mikey up to? I think we got to get Fincher on Love Guru 2. Give it the spin that it needs to take the franchise seriously and have people go like, yeah, all right. I'm in.

Paramount went to Fincher and they said, look, we got all these franchises that we built. They gave him a big two. And they were like, just stick it next to whatever title you like. Monster Trucks 2 meet Creech again. Three meet Creech.

Creech is just hanging out. I tried to watch Monster Trucks on a plane. You were finally ready to meet Creech. just hanging out. I tried to watch Monster Tracks on a plane. You were finally ready to meet Creech. I was finally ready. I've had a very emotionally and psychologically taxing year. I've had a year that demanded a lot of me, and I just kept on going,

I don't know if I'm ready to meet Creech. It's the same thing where I'm not ready to watch Handmaid's Tale because I just feel psychologically fragile. Totally good comparison. And I'm not ready to meet Creech. Because he's a lot of monster. He's a lot of truck, right? Well, women are the creature

of Handmaid's Tale. Absolutely. Which is a great phrase now that I'm going to get tattooed on my forehead. Or you could say that Creech is the women of Monster Trucks. I think you should do it

on both palms. So it should be women are the creature of The Handmaid's Tale. It could be a one-two. If I'm ever feeling like, well, I don't want to freak people out, I can just hold up the Handmaid's Tale. I agree. Yes.

Very good. Keep the women are the creature of behind my back. I tried to watch it and I was just so bored. Yeah. Sure. It's just kind of whatever. Like I was ready for it to be really bizarre. Right. Isn't it essential? It's just kind of whatever. I was ready for it to be really bizarre.

Isn't it essential? It's just an alien comes and lives in a monster truck, but they call the movie Monster Trucks. He lives in a pickup truck that then becomes a monster truck. Because he's a monster. I feel like they should have just called it Meat Creach. They should have called it Meat Creach. I think it was just there was this one gif of him sliding out of the truck and like into havoc's arms and sort of enveloping him and people were like wait is this movie like a weird monster sex like squid movie is that what

this is so you got to be up front with that you can't spend a hundred million dollars on subtlety yeah you gotta say january 17th fuck creech that's got to be your tagline that was the movie that paramount took like a $150 million bath on, right? Yes. Like three months before it came out. Before it came out.

We're taking a $150 million write down on a mystery movie. And it came out like three years after it was shot because much like the Rick Baker cat in the hat

they screened it and kids were terrified by the design of Creech. And they had to start over and reanimate all the monster shit. That's so dumb. I feel like if kids are terrified by the design of Screech and they had to start over and reanimate all the monster shit. That's so dumb. I feel like if kids are terrified by the design of Screech then just like reshoot. That was the problem

with Dustin Diamond. The first draft was Dustin Diamond is in the truck. Well I don't understand. I understand why that's a little freaky. They all saw the tape. They didn't even put him in the truck. They just opened the truck and he was there. He was living in it.

And they were like, all right, we got to cut that one scene and it's going to cost us a hundred million dollars. Diamond's contract is foolproof. Isn't Diamond in jail now for stabbing a guy?

Yeah. He definitely attacked someone. Is he in jail? I'm Googling. I saw a tape where he daggered someone. I'm sorry. No, it had to be. sorry I mean I was wondering who was going to go there 10 comedy points

No Monster Trucks is just kind of boring He's out of jail now Oh no he's back in jail He violated his probation Sorry it was a rollercoaster It's weirdly like an environmental parable Because it's about they find Creech when they're drilling for oil, they're fracking,

and then they find Creech. So you're saying they do kind of fuck Creech. They do. They at least frack him. Wait. So they were like, we want to really make sure this appeals to the kids, but we are going to introduce it

with a plot line about fracking. Well, Mark Ruffalo is a producer and that's in his contract. He's like, there's got to be an anti-fracking thing in this one. And they're like, all right, man. This is a podcast about Zero Dark Thirty, obviously.

Sure. The movie Zero Dark Thirty, a film about the assassination of Osama bin Laden. Also known as Meet Osama. That was the tagline on January 15th. Get ready. Great, great. We're professionals.

Yeah, but this isn't the kind of movie that is serious or anything. Digs into any kind of weighty issues. No, it's a romp. I would call this a movie. It's a two hour, 37 minute romp. Right, and that's why John McCain protested this movie.

Because he said, too frivolous. Wait, did he really protest this movie? He said that it was evil. A bunch of the U.S. Senate got together and protested this movie because he said, too frivolous. Wait, did he really protest this movie? Too much fun. He said that it was evil. A bunch of the U.S. Senate got together and protested this movie, along with several liberal members of the Academy, like Ed Asner and Martin Sheen protested this movie. We're going to dig way into that, all that shit, man. I feel weird where I kind of feel like I'm on a sort of similar ground as John McCain.

But we'll get to that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. This is like Catherine Bigelow's most traditional blank check movie, even though Strange Days fits into the blank check template. But this is the movie where she's won Best Picture. She has the blank check. That's what you're saying. And she's like, I'm going to do a movie about us not killing Bin Laden.

And then she's ready to go. And then she's like, actually, sorry, let me get that back. I'm going to do a movie about how we kill bin laden and then she's ready to go and then she's like actually sorry let me get that back i'm gonna do a movie about how we kill bin laden because we just killed him so but they had like announced it her and mark cole were like here's our thing and a perner acquired it and this that all happened like shortly after they started casting it and then like six weeks after the movie was announced we got bin laden wait oh so that wasn't a oh wow i'm not joking truly i truly Isn't that crazy? I truly thought it was like when they killed Bin Laden, they like fast-tracked the movie into production.

Which they did. But they rewrote. They rewrote their whole movie. Wow. Because they were going to do this movie about how we almost got him in Tora Bora, like right at the start of the Afghanistan War. It was going to be like the Zodiac of looking for Osama Bin Laden. And John Carroll Lynch was going to play him.

Yes. He was going to play bin Laden? Yeah. Well, probably bin Laden, but it's a little unclear at the end. You don't know Arthur Allen. Okay. Yeah, someone sees him in an airport bathroom

and is like... He's got the same watch as bin Laden. That is a movie I would actually, I think I would enjoy a little bit more. Zodiac? No. Yes, just Zodiac. Oh, right.

The movie about not getting bin Laden. Yeah. Rather than the movie about how we shot him. But hey, look, they did have the problem of, right, they're going to make this movie. They're ready to go on this movie. Now they can't make the movie. Right. And Mark Bowles is like, look, I'll just rewrite 95% of it.

It'll be fine. We'll make Zero Dark Thirty instead. And he, according to IMDb trivia, did not get any additional compensation for rewriting the script, even though he essentially wrote a whole new start over from scratch. Rooney Marr was originally announced as playing the Jessica Chastain role, which I think was originally not the main character. Sure. It's sort of a character in an ensemble.

Right. And Joel Edgerton was going to play the Jason Clarke character. Yes, that I knew. They swapped them. That seems pretty interchangeable because those two guys look too similar. They look weirdly similar.

Yeah, I don't think you should have them in the same movie. Well, it's almost weird when Edgerton shows up and doesn't do much. It's also very weird when, well, because apparently

he dropped out because he had a scheduling issue but then he could take the smaller role. Right, yes, yeah. But they're both craggy rock men. Yeah. Right.

They both got mountain faces. Yeah. They both got big old foreheads you could like plant a camp on or whatever. They both probably played orcs and something. Edgerton and Ray. Edgerton and Ray. He's going to be an orc cop. Right.

A twisted orc cop. Twisted. That will have come out by the time. Oh, yeah. Right? I'm pretty sure that Bright is a Christmas release, which seems weird, just the idea of people being like, come on, gather on the couch and let's hang with Will Smith and orcs. Edger Tork.

Edger Tork. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Let's not ever talk about it again. That looks like a cross-generational movie, though. That's a four-quadrant populist. You got the grandmothers who love Will Smith. You got the kids who love Will Smith.

You got the parents who love Will Smith. You got the weird guys on Twitter who love Max Landis. That's... yeah. It's just that's like 1% of Netflix's pie chart. And they're like, we need to get that pie. I'm up to my knees with those guys. You know what I'm saying? Yes, unfortunately, I do.

Ben, crash the podcast. Unfortunately, crash the podcast. Crash the podcast. Crash the podcast. The podcast is collapsing. Well, here's my prediction for December. Bright is not going to be good, and I'm going to be bummed about it. It's on the record.

Yeah. I love how David Ayer, when he was promoting Suicide Squad, was like, fuck Marvel and their baby shit. This is the real shit. DC. And now that he's promoting Bright, he's like, fuck DC and their baby shit. This is the real shit. DC. And now that he's promoting Bright, he's like, fuck DC and their baby shit. This is the real shit. R-rated Netflix orc movies. He's just gonna be like

on Crackle Next, like, just be like hardcore porn starring himself. He's like, fuck Netflix, man. But he was like this, like, gritty LA cop drama guy who now is getting into, like, fantasy genre stuff and keeps on going like but not like that dumb shit

that dorks like and he he just everything he does he's like alright but it's cops too right

exactly it's like we want you to direct a fantasy movie but cops can't be about the LAPD though

yeah Michael Payne is in it come on he owes me a favor he'll do anything alright Can it be about the LAPD though? Yeah. Michael Payne is in it. Come on, he owes me a favor. He'll do anything. All right. So this is a podcast about the movie Zero Dark Thirty. Zero Dark Thirty.

Directed by David Ayer. Directed by David Ayer. Oh, I'm glad he didn't direct this one. It would just be like, he'd just be like, all right, what if Osama was Hispanic? And had a gold AK. Remember that gold? Yeah. Yes, I do. Was that in? End had a gold AK. Remember that gold? Yeah. Yes. Yes, I do.

Was that in? End of Watch. Oh. End of Watch. All right. Yeah. The Watch ended then. I don't know.

Griffin, get me out of this. Stop just looking at me like that. End of Watch. I wish I never saw this. Beginning of Watch. Okay. That's a good one. That is a very good one.

Thank you, Jeff. All right. Beginning of The Watch. Different movie. Yes. Also didn't like. No. Let's not talk about that one.

All right. No, we can. Zero Dark Thirty. Do you think it would be a better movie if you watched the first half of The Watch and then watched the end of The Watch? Maybe. But you'd just be like, oh, Richard Ireday is Jake Gyllenhaal now. That's like the worst rep programming ever. Someone gives me a weekend at the Metrograph, and I'm like, alright, guys.

You gotta stay. You gotta stay. We're just back to back. This series is called Davies Mix-Ups. It's the little Davies Sims. It's like you're a DJ for movies. It's like, this one doesn't go into this one, but we're changing the mood. Listen to the watch.

Get it? Just crossfading between the movies. Live by Knights of Rodanthe. This is just, yeah. This is great. It's great. I don't want to talk about Abu Faraj Ali B either. I just read that name off my computer screen.

Should we just make more mix-muffs? Like iRobots? Oh, I get it! Thank you. So like the little Ewan McGregor tinker toy man? He's the one who's trying to kill everyone. He's ripping people's faces off. I think you're talking about Withnail and iRobots, right?

Which is when the Ewan McGregor robot is drinking with Richard E. Grant and Will Smith is trying to catch both of them. As he should. They need to be brought to justice. Scoundrels. Remember iRobot? Remember those converses? Well, he did not murder him. I did not murder him.

He did, though, right? He did. I think so. He hard-tired dead. Which seems like a I hate that. Just because when they mark the movies, like, I did not murder him. I'm going to be like, ooh, I want to see that. I want you to prove that he didn't, Will. He's cool. I like this guy. I like this to be like, Ooh, I want to see that. I want you to prove it. He's cool. I like this guy. I like this guy.

He's 3d. He's 3d. He's all white. It's 2004. This is the future. Fuck it. Show me. It's good.

Um, that's a good movie. That's under a movie. I robot. We should do pro. Yes. Yeah. I just watched the crow,

which I had never seen. Dark city to dark city, which is like a major influence on like a lot of better movies it sucks that that came out like just before The Matrix I know he also made

Gods of Egypt he did which is quite a movie did he make something between that and I Row Up he made Knowing

where Nicolas Cage predicts the apocalypse that's a fun filmography and there's another isn't there another one in there he made what's it called Garage Days he made that like Australian indie movie The Apocalypse. That's a fun filmography. And there's another, isn't there another one in there? He made,

what's it called? Garage Days? He made that like Australian indie movie about the rock band. Yeah, that's not what I was thinking of, but you're right. Yeah,

that's it. That's his whole, yeah, weird. The Crow's Wild. Have you seen The Crow? Yeah, it's a wild movie.

Zero Dark Thirty's pretty wild. Yeah, right, so this is a podcast about the movie Zero Dark Thirty. We're clearly excited to talk about it. It's just a, yeah, Thirty's pretty wild. Yeah, right. So this is a podcast about the movie Zero Dark Thirty. Uh, we're clearly excited to talk about it. It's just a... Yeah, I don't know.

I really like this movie. It's hard to talk about. And here's a big thought I want to throw out right up top. Right up top 40 minutes into this episode. Now that we're finally trying to talk about this movie. Ben just nodded sadly. Right? Zero Dark Forty.

Yes. So, so there was this weird, like, I feel like all of America collectively, regardless of where you stood politically, we all in the wake of 9-11 were like, we got to catch this fucking guy. Sure, there was, yeah, that brief moment of national unity. Right.

We all held hands and kumbaya'd. Exactly. 9-12, the 9-12 spirit we all remember so well. Right. But I think even and kumbaya'd around. Exactly. 9-12. The 9-12 spirit we all remember so well. Right. But I think even like 10 years later people were like

fuck it just feels unfulfilled. Like this feels like narratively unfulfilled. It was like America's to-do list. Yeah.

And we just it was just sitting at the top there. And it was this like massive thing. She starts developing this movie about like how close we came

and it was going to be about I assume more the frustration of it was going to be about, I assume, more the frustration of not being able to pin him down. And then they catch him, they rewrite the whole movie, and they make this movie that feels weirdly cathartic when it comes out. It's not an U-Raw movie, but it's a movie about that frustration,

that struggle to get there. And everyone could kind of map onto themselves, like, right, it was weird for like a decade when we were just living with knowing that this guy was out there. and the movie to its credit doesn't do a lot of like well that's the thing table setting sure yeah right but i was watching this and thinking to myself like will this movie mean anything to like like my kid whatever right someone a right from now if you don't have the table setting of like,

we all were kind of weirdly invested in this thing. Do you guys remember where you were when they announced that? Yeah, I do too. Vividly. I was just at home, but I just remember the like half hour on Twitter where no one in the world knew what the fuck was going on. Remember how The Rock revealed it? Yes.

Which was, how did he know it again? He had like a cousin that was a Navy SEAL. Yes, that's it. Imagine being on SEAL Team 6 and being like, holy shit. I gotta tell someone. I gotta call Dwayne, man. I gotta fucking text Dwayne. He's gonna be, oh, no, let's tell Obama.

Yeah. But also he tweeted like, you guys might want to watch the TV tonight. Gonna be some real big news. He's like, just got some news. Like, boom, we got him. Home of the, like, land of the free or something and everyone's like what right right um oh my god that was really strange the other thing that was amazing was that was when obama was just like fucking dragging donald trump yeah doomed right it was the day before was the seth meyer's white house correspondence dinner right it really feels like that day a door opened Trump. Yeah. Which doomed us. It was the day before was the Seth Meyers White House Correspondents Dinner.

It really feels like that day a door opened and another door closed. And in the moment it was so satisfying. He did like 20 minutes on Trump. And killed. Yeah, sure. A really tight set of Trump stuff and they kept on cutting to Trump like clearly not getting the joke and wondering why everyone was laughing at him. Right, sitting like tersely

and yeah, I remember that. And that's Saturday. That's Saturday. And then on Sunday night, it's the finale of The Celebrity Apprentice. And there was this like tweet at six or seven o'clock from The Rock. And everyone's like, oh shit, did they catch Bin Laden? They're going to like preempt the news. So my roommate, Sophie and I were watching TV, like waiting for the programming to get interrupted. Yeah. And then there was like a White House tweet that was like Obama's press conference will not start until 940.

Like it got pushed back from when they thought it was going to happen. And the time it got pushed back to directly overlapped with the last 10 minutes of the finale of Celebrity Apprentice. Oh, my God. Which felt like him just being like, fuck you. So if we didn't kill Osama bin Laden. Donald Trump would not be presidentice. Oh my God. Which felt like him just being like, fuck you. So if we didn't kill Osama Bin Laden. Donald Trump would not be president. That's the exact point.

That's what this movie is about. She should make Zero Dark Thirty-One about that, right? Yeah, just like, just imagine like being able to look over all of time

and be like, look, either Donald Trump is president or you can kill, it's like you get to, like just that, that defending your life scenario of like,

where are we going here? I mean, that's a great movie. It's like you get to like just that that defending your life scenario of like where where are we going here? I mean that that's a great movie. It is a great movie. Although again on the record Trump might not be president

by the time this comes out. Well no by the time this is out we're speaking from the confidence of a universe in which Trump is not president. Yeah okay so we're living in a post-Trump world.

Sure. Right. And things are definitely a lot better. That's right. And Osama's back. Yeah we I mean it's the trade that was the other side of the coin we did have to let it be a ghost and he has a show now and we have to you know it's it's on nbc and it sucks but right yeah uh yes celebrity apprentice he has to he has to host it that's like that's the trade-off senator gillibrand had to go down to hell and pull out

Osama Bin Laden in order to trade. Yeah. It was a real when you resurrect Jason to fight Freddy. Yes, exactly. Yeah, there was eldritch runes underneath some rug in the Capitol building.

You might have actually just cracked it. Maybe the answer is we just resurrect Jason. Maybe it doesn't need to be a metaphor. Jason could host Celebrity Apprentice. Jason could definitely host Celebrity Apprentice. That'd be great. He'd take Manhattan again. Exactly.

Takes Manhattan by the goddamn ratings. I mean, the key art writes itself. Do you think Trump would dare go after Jason on Twitter? I don't think he would. He would absolutely be like be Jason's a loser He's at the Freddie killed him for the Freddie one for a reason Mama's boy sad The first killer wasn't even Jason it was his mother his mother fights his battles from that's that's pathetic

It took him three movies to figure out the hockey mask. I had my look going from day one This loser doesn't understand branding. We're pitching gold here Took him three movies to figure out the hockey mask. I had my look going from day one. This loser doesn't understand branding. We're pitching gold here. What if by November, Trump is like God King of America and this comes out and we're all arrested? He's fixed it. Well, it's fine because we recorded this in August, so the ACLU, which is now, probably doesn't exist.

Sure, sure. Now it's the TCLU or whatever. Right. The Trumps ofberties University. Exactly. It's now Trump Civil Liberties University. He resurrected Trump University. Only 80 grand a week.

You can go to TCLU. All right. Can I tell my quick story about where I was when... Sure. Go right ahead. I don't know. What's this podcast about? We're 50 minutes in now. Yeah, go ahead. This episode's a I was? Sure, go right ahead. I don't know, what's this podcast about?

We're 50 minutes in now. Yeah, go ahead. This episode's a four-parter, by the way. I was working at the Disney store at the time, in Times Square. Humbleburg. I didn't say it, but yeah. But I dropped out of college to start acting and stuff. This is the real apex that you're saying.

You dropped out of college. You're in the Disney store in Times Square. Well, so I dropped out of college and then like a year in, I get cast in as like the, the booger type character in this teen movie. Uh, which one is that? It's called Beware the Gonzo. Beware the Gonzo. Zoe Kravitz.

And they were both rising stars. And it was like, I'm like the comedic relief in this movie. This could be like a big breakout thing. Yeah. And it ended up being released in one theater that played it one time a day.

Which theater was that? It was the Tribeca Cinema. Oh, sure, sure. Yeah, the one that's usually closed. Yep. They did like seven o'clock once a day

for four days and that was the release of that movie. But I was like, I was a fucking booger in a in a teen comedy i'm gonna i so you're like i'm hightailing it out of here in six months like yeah right like i there was a rough patch where i could get any work for like a year and i was like okay i gotta get a day job like filled in but i was the fucking i was horny rob becker i'm gonna

get a work you were horny rob i was horny rob beckham you're in the same room right that's horny rob beckham and i was like i'm gonna get more roles i'm fine right and i go around like my shifts at the disney store and it's a lot of like aspiring broadway musical actors working there right and i was like these people don't even know like i'm a fucking movie star i was third build and but where are the guns great you said i was in a really dark place, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was this guy named Michael who worked at the store. Everyone else was like 20s, early 30s at the oldest. This guy Michael was like over 50 and just put a little extra on everything he did. He was very performative and he was always taking pictures with customers. Like they were like, Michael, you're the best employees I've ever met.

He's like, come on, let's take a selfie. And he would like come and note me on how I was like interacting with customers. He's like, Griff, just a little advice, peer-to-peer, use a little more energy there. Hey man, stop telling them to check out where the gonzo. Yeah. So I never brought it up. Never brought it up, right? Because no one knew.

But I was just like, I know I'm going to get another horny Rob Becker, another role of that magnitude, right? But I was just like, I know I'm going to get another horny Rob Becker, another role of that magnitude, right? So the night that Obama makes the announcement that he's killed bin Laden. Himself. Right. With his own bare hands. Right. Which is what this movie's about.

I went downstairs at the Correspondents' Dinner, had them delivered, and just strangled them. Saw the life leave his eyes. Came up, did some jokes. Had a great night. Big thanks to Seth Meyers. Shot a three-pointer just after that, too. So, really, just a great night for me all around. Also, he held Bin Laden down as I punched him in the throat

until I drew blood. So stop hitting yourself in Urdu. Learned just that one phrase in Urdu. Just so I could say, stop hitting yourself to Osama bin Laden. This is your story. Yeah. So they cut from the press conference. He's still at the Disney store.

Yeah. They cut from the press conference to like NBC4 local news. And they're like, we're reporting here live from Times Square there's a lot of energy here people are relieved people are crying we have caught Bin Laden we have one man here ready to talk to us who lost someone on 9-11 Michael Zorich

and my co-worker fucking comes out and it's just like some random New Yorker who's talking about like the voice of all New Yorkers because he was just there and it was like I guess the shot that's right in front of the Disney store, maybe he was getting off his shift. Two days later, three days later,

whatever it is, within that week, the royal wedding happens, right? And there's a big thing. That's right. It was right then. Good Morning America screen. They're playing the royal wedding

and people were watching it in Times Square. This was a big ass week. Right? Yeah, it was a hell of a week. Seth Meyers did a tight 20 and then Bin Laden got shot in the face. Right. And then Kate and Will got married.

Obama crushed his JFL audition. Yeah. Live on national television. So it's the Kate and William wedding. What the fuck is this you're doing here? I'm about to show you. The front page of the Daily Post the next day is this guy, Michael, my co-worker, close-up shot of him with his daughter on his shoulders watching the Jumbotron.

And then you go inside and it's like... He beat out Will and Kate, is what you're saying. Right, I was like, how does this guy keep on finding a way to get himself right in front of a camera whenever there's a big event going on? So then I go like, wait, why does this guy look familiar? And I do some Googling. His name's Michael Zorich.

He was like the horny Rob of his time. He was in like four shitty, barely released teen comedies where he played like the fat, horny guy. And he's totally who I like was, equivalent. How do you spell this guy's name? Z-O-R-E-K. He was in Teen Wolf 2. Wow. Here he is. You got a visit from future you.

He was in a lot of 80s movies. I was like, I gotta shape up or ship out. That's when I had my big come to mama moment. I was like, you gotta fucking get it together. He was in The Woman in Red. The Death of Osama Bin Laden was a big week for you. Huge. Camp Nowhere.

I got my priorities in order. He was in private school. He's fourth build in that. That was his big one. That was the one where he was like the horny Rob. Right, with Matthew Modine and Phoebe Cates.

Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly. The Ezra Miller and Zoe Kravitz of their time. I agree. Yeah. So that's where you were. Where were you, Demi?

I was in a library working on like a group project with a bunch of kids. Sure. And I just remember someone like up CNN and being like, Oh my God, they shot Osama bin Laden. And we were all like, What? Shut up, man. And we all opened up and were like, Whoa!

And I remember we all cheered for a bit. But we were also just kind of like, I feel like we also had a moment of lucidity where we were like, I don't know why we're cheering. Is this triumphant? What is this? That is cool. That's got to be relieving for a lot of people. But we were also like none of us had connections to it.

We were just like, that's good for the country. And then we like 10 minutes. We're like, all right, let's go back to working. But there was that weird thing where it was just I think there was this frustration over like not that everyone had like this bloodlust still 10 years later. Right. But just like it's weird that we haven't caught him. And they kept on going, like. Well, it was also weird that we'd, like, yeah, we'd done a whole war.

Right. In Afghanistan that did not seem to have anything positive associated with it. We destabilized the whole country. And then, like, on top of all that, the one guy we know who was involved in 9-11, we hadn't even, like, sorted that out. It was, yeah. I feel like there were also rumors that he was, like, lit. Like, there were so many rumors about where he was, but there were people thinking like,

yeah, he's living in the US now. It's like, what? Yeah, he lives in the spire of the Empire State Building. He's right at the top of Trump Tower. He controls the weather. Yeah, no, no, but it's true. There were all these rumors. And then some people were like,

no, he lives in a cave and he's sick. And that's why we can't get him. And it doesn't matter. We don't want to get him. It sucks in that cave. That was a big one too, which they like kind of allude to in this movie. Which is Kyle Chandler's big monologue in this movie.

Right, right. But no, but there was that whole theory that it was like, well, his like livers are really bad. People think he might just died five years ago. Right.

He might just died in a cave. I feel like. He had two livers to be fair. Yeah. Like even if that was the case, wouldn't you be like, well then figure it out for sure? Maybe just ask around.

But then they get to release those videos where he'd be sitting somewhere and he'd be like, what's up, guys? He was John Turturro-ing it. He was doing his little cameo on the beach. Definitely 06. The Rockies are doing great this year. So today I'm going to do a makeup tutorial.

This week, Kate Middleton will get married. Here's my review. oracle be standing in time of new girl totally adorkable like i don't know like what he would just like make sure to mention some stuff so he's like a revelation yeah exactly he just had to make predictions like on the record like we had to do on the record exactly bright it's gonna be great i would love to find tapes if he's like look i don't think i'm gonna make it to 2015 can we just set a few of these in production transformers uh 10 will be a smash success yes uh zero to 30 jesus christ are we starting the movie what are we doing so i think i think the very opening of this movie is actually really smart because she doesn't put too much like you know sort of of paprika on the sandwich. You were trying not to say that, and then you just said it.

I know. But they have that one phone call you hear of the woman in the tower. Yeah, over nothing, over credits. Just tall black. But it's, like, a good amount of restraint where it's like, right, give us, like, remind us all how terrifying that was on the day. Sure. Which it does.

Hearing that. Yeah, no good. Did you guys see this movie in theaters i did i saw it in theaters yeah i did too and i i don't i think i don't remember how i felt in theaters because i remember coming out and being like yeah that was the movie but like watching it this time i was just kind of like wait this must have been so jarring to watch in 2012 just like here starting right off the bat with here is a 9-11 phone call i know and yeah i just remember the theater experience being very tense.

Yeah. This movie is tense. It has a lot of scenes where nothing happens and then something blows up, which is stressful. Yeah. Yeah. It has a lot of just creeping dread. Yes. And then the moment of relief at the end, she like does everything to make sure you're not that like relieved if that makes sense

it's more just sort of like you know it's like not like what I like about it like that it's designed to be I mean it's it's like the anti-revenge thriller I mean I think that is what she's going for but I mean we're gonna talk about it on Detroit

next week which is just gonna be like a laugh riot of an episode that we're all gonna have a great time recording I when I like the first thing I said when this movie ended is like

no fucking way am I going to see Detroit like I for the entire time that movie's been out I've just been like

I don't think I can handle it I think it's gonna be too much all the reviews say like it's a lot it's a lot I feel like I don't wanna do it and then watching this I was just reminded of like

well if this is how she handles this yeah I don't think I can go to Detroit. It's all the seeds of I think what undid her with Detroit. It's like she's very impassive. She wants you to bring a lot to what she you know her thing is like I am showing you like

very detailed very detail oriented stuff like reconstructions but like I am like I want you to project things onto this. It's how I feel she behaves which is what I think will hurt the legacy of Zero Dark Thirty

because if you don't grow up remembering what it was like in those ten years where we didn't know where Bin Laden was I don't think this movie has any real power

sure outside of just like technical it has some power well it's right it's a technically very accomplished movie it has a lot of power

in terms of like you're watching this person whose only life has been this which and then when it's done it's like great i mean you know like you know what i mean like the end for her is not particularly satisfying yeah which i like i mean i remember being very blown away when i saw this movie in theaters sure just being like yep 100 she nailed it this is better than the hurt locker i don't think it's better than The Hurt Locker.

But I do like this movie, I should say. Seeing it out of theaters, like walking out of the theater the first time, I thought it was better than The Hurt Locker. Hadn't seen it since then. It diminished a lot for me this time. It weirdly feels like a movie that's shelf life is already like- A little bit.

Shrinking. Yeah. And also, it's like you're like, oh, Al-Qaeda. Remember when that was the villain not yeah when they kept saying isi i was like isis get ready they're gonna add ness um no yeah exactly but it does feel dated because it was such recent history like when the movie came out it was dramatizing things that happened like 18 months earlier right yeah that now that

we're in a different climate, the movie is so devoid of any larger context like that because she's asking you to bring everything to the table. I think so. I do think that's how she functions and in Detroit, she's doing the same thing. We'll talk about Detroit. Jesus. I still haven't seen it at the time of this recording.

Yeah. I feel kind of similar to you. I'm glad that you guys didn't want me to watch the short because every time I see the trail I'm just like I don't think I could deal with this it's for real you're in town, you usually live in LA you're in New York

and I was very very excited at the prospect of having you as a guest and I said we're going to be starting this Catherine Bigelow main series, any of them that jump out to you? And you said that this was the only one you'd seen. Yeah. That you heard Point Break was really cool. Everyone says Point Break is great.

I know it's endlessly parodied. I've seen Hot Fuzz and whatnot. And I was like, Point Break, that'll be a fun one to watch. But you were like, well, do the one you've seen before. I just felt like, yeah, it's good if you have some prior relationship to the thing. I definitely do think that I'd be better talking about this than I would Point Break. Because I'd just be like, it was funny when he did the bike. Point Break is a lot of that.

The skydive and something. But for you guys, when you saw it in theaters, you were kind of like, eh, about it. And it sounds like it's diminished even more for you. I think when I came out of the theater, I was very much like whoa that was dramatic and very well made but i i think my connection to the events of like 9-11 weren't as strong and weren't as like i was never like we gotta get osama bin laden like when it even when like it happened i was just kind of like whoa yeah okay but like so seeing the movie i was just coming at it from the place of like i remember this event this is crazy and like it was just very dramatic but i i just remember i wasn't as like i remember thinking when people were like it's gonna get nominated for best picture and

it did i was like okay i don't think it should win but okay right so but yeah i also knew that she was coming off the hurt locker and i hadn't seen the Hurt Locker, but I knew it won Best Picture, but I was just like, well, this is going to be incredible, I bet. Right. Yeah. And it was like a big deal when she didn't get nominated for Best Director. She was like a big snub that year. I guess so. Let me look at the...

Because that was the year Affleck didn't get nominated, and she didn't get nominated. Both of them were considered locked. It was seen as a lock for a lot of things and then right there was a lot of furore around this movie no that was the year after the King's Speech one it's a few years

after that no yeah it's the year after you're right King's Speech is 010 so this is 11 oh no this is two years after Artist is the year before this is the

Argo year got it where Ang Lee wins best director for Life of Pi everyone's favorite movie right that everyone always

talks about I always talk about the That was that weird thing. I always talk about the direction in that movie. No, but that was like everyone thought that either Bigelow or Affleck would win Best Director. And then neither of them got nominated. And then like Ang Lee kind of won by default. Yeah. I feel like it was one of those scenarios where everyone's like, I mean, Ang Lee. We got to.

Right. It's great. Yeah. Who doesn't love Ang Lee? I mean, it's the Coens that year. No, it's Michelle Haneke for Amour. Right. Another laugh riot that everybody loves to talk about. Right. It's great. Yeah. Who doesn't love Ang Lee? I mean, it's the Coens that year. No, it's Michelle Haneke for Amour. Right. Another laugh riot that everybody loves to talk about.

Right. Ben Zeitlin for Beasts of the Southern Wild. Yeah. Which is a very just. Weird nom. Weird nom. Yeah. I feel like that was, I feel like every year they've got one that it's like, well, this

is the fresh new kid that we want to show people that you can do this too. And that's always the person who all season every like Oscar handicapper has been like no chance he gets nominated and then he always it's like the Lenny Abramson like surprise of like oh they nominated the room guy? Uh yeah that was weird. Frank. Spielberg

for Lincoln. Right. And David O. Russell for Silver Linings Playbook. It's a weird slate. I remember that year. That was the year that I Russell for Silver Linings Playbook it's a weird it's a weird slate I remember that year that year that was the year that I was like

Silver Linings Playbook better not win all these fucking awards well even though I liked the movie I was just like it's it won one award

what was that best actress Jenny Lawrence oh oh yeah and then she fell down and Hugh Jackman ran to save her and then I loved her again

right because she trips like me. But that is the one award. You know, Jessica Chastain should have been klutzy in this movie. That would have been... I think if she had been a little bit more relatable, as opposed to just, you know, focused. So you're saying she could have been adorkable.

Maybe. I mean, as Osama told us, this was a big year for adorkable. She has like bangs and like big glasses or something i don't know i break for birds and i want to kill osama bin laden i forgot about i break for i i love new girl so much me too i love it's a fantastic show yes agreed it's just fun to make fun of Adorkable. Yes. Yeah, that initial advertising campaign was rough on all of us. I have to imagine they look back on that now and just go, well, we really missed the mark. Yeah, yeah.

What was I going to say? Well, I mean, I remember, like, my biggest takeaway after seeing it in theaters was, like, Chastain fucking walking away with the Oscar. Interesting, sure. Like, when I saw it, I was like, Chastain fucking walking away with the Oscar. Interesting, sure. Like when I saw it, I was like, Chastain fucking powerhouse. I think she's great.

She's like emerged in the last two years as like our next great fucking American actor. Yeah. And here's this vehicle for her. She's like got the reins and her character is so fascinating. And that end scene hit me so hard. And I always was like,

fucking Chastain should have won instead of Lawrence. Like Lawrence would have won another year. Was Chastain nominated? She was nominated. She was. And always was like fucking Chastain should have won instead of Lawrence. Like Lawrence would have won another year. Was Chastain nominated? She was nominated. And it was like Lawrence was inevitable she was going to win

an Oscar at some point and it felt like this was like Chastain's perfect performance. Well she had even won already with Winner's Bone right? No she had just been nominated. Her only win is

Silver Linings. No I thought she's won twice. She's won once. She almost won for fucking American Hustle. I mean I feel like had she not won this year she probably would have won for American Hustle. I mean, I feel like had she not won this year, she probably would have won for American Hustle.

Right, that was the thing. It just felt like it was so clear that, like, she was America's new, like, great shining hope to save Hollywood. Yeah. And they were going to give her the Oscar before she was 30. Sure. Like, no matter what she was going to get it one way or another. She's still not 30.

Very aware of that. J-Law? 27 years old. Hmm. Young woman. Younger than me. Younger than me? Yep.

Older than me. There you go, Ben. And I'm 12. So you still got a chance. Is that what it is? Yeah, to be the next. Younger than me, for sure. Yeah.

Sorry, Ben, I didn't mean to bum you out there. No, it's okay. So the movie, Zero Dark Thirty, after these opening credits, begins with... Torture.

Oh, torture. Right, right. 25 minutes of torture. Begins with my girlfriend being like, we have to watch this tonight? Oh my God. It was so hard to watch.

Yeah. All of the hardest stuff to watch comes in the first hour of the movie. And then like the next 45 minutes are just them talking like, we gotta get him.

Right. And yeah, it's just... Well, it's a kind of five act movie. And then like the next 45 minutes are just them talking like, we gotta get him! And yeah, it's just Well, it's a kind of a five-act movie. It's a weird, like, it's these isolated sections that are like 35 minutes long that are each kind of focused around... Right, the beginning of the movie is like, Jason Clarke is the torturer, and

Jennifer Ely is boss lady, and Jessica Chastain's like, a sidekick. I know, he's also here. Yes, he is. He's got a laptop. Jason Clarke's role in this movie is so weird. I think his role is actually really interesting. I think he's the best part of this movie.

Yeah? Yeah, I do. Please demonstrate. I just, like, just in terms of, I think the character of what, maybe it's just what I would want to see in this thing, where it's like, he is almost unempathetic, just in the sense of like, he's a torturer,

and then also seems very bro-y, but then also has this thing with his the monkeys that he gets really sad about and it's like i can't do this anymore and he leaves and becomes a suit and it's just like his progression seems almost like i mean it's like kind of someone growing up but not for the right reason right yeah i think that's intentional i mean like as you said like the first part of this movie is the hardest part i mean there's this moment halfway through the movie where they're all just watching TV, and you see this interview with Obama saying, like, torture is not American, and we shouldn't torture people.

And then there's no more torture in the movie because as the CIA stopped doing it, at least so we're told, or so Bull's told. And it's like no one ever says, like, he's right. Yeah. We shouldn't. It was pretty fucked like, he's right. Yeah. We shouldn't, we shouldn't. It was pretty fucked up, all that torture we did. It's just like, it becomes like, that's the new, that's what the series is like now.

It kind of feels like they wanted to be like, fuck him. Yeah. Like they're sort of like, you know, but same with Clark where he's like, during the Bush era, he's like, yeah, man, you want me to just like tough my hair up just all the way up and like waterboard people? Great. And then the Obama years, he's like, man you want me to just like tough my hair up just all the way up and like waterboard people great and then the obama years he's like i'm a suit now and it's like rather than anyone being held accountable yeah or put through any kind of it's more just like no we just we'll just move everything around well can i throw out my hot takes on this yeah sure i got a lot of i got a lot of feelings just what we need a hot take i got a lot of feelings on on all of that and the

response to it that happened culturally. Oh, sure, sure. I think this was kind of this watershed moment where it felt like people were not willing to read subtext at all. And I'm not saying the movie makes all of its points completely successfully. And I'm not saying it's

on the right side of everything. No, I agree. But it was one of those things where it felt like people were angry that the movie didn't have a scene where a character looked at the camera and said, torture is wrong. We shouldn't have done that. Right, right.

That it didn't have an atonement scene. To me, that's too easy, yeah. And also it's false, and we didn't do that. Like, you know, what's frustrating about this story is that, like, we did a lot of fucking other stuff.

Yeah, we elected a new boss who was like, don't do just this one thing. Very bad. Like, you can still do a lot of stuff, but don't do some of these things. Right. And no one was ever like,

really held accountable for it. But is the play then, to reference like that famous photograph of the... Abergrave. Right, that's the question. Which is like... The thing you put in. Like that woman became a scapegoat

for all the unease that America had with the torture. Because it was like, well, here's a good example. Right, bad apple. She crossed a line. Oh, yeah, sure, right. We weren't telling her to do that. Jeez.

Don't take pictures. What are you guys thinking? Right, right. Whereas Jason Clarke is like a successful blue-collar torturer. Yeah, right. He just works his way up. He just makes the guy shit his pants and show his dick to Jessica Chastain, you know?

Right. This is all right at the start, and you're like, oh, boy. Right. Do you remember the metal part where they play the now all right i looked the band up they're called rorschach they're a jersey hardcore band first there right high school with them ben no no i didn't did you come out of the furnace with them hey don't you dare uh ben grew up in the town the movie out of the furnace is based on no i grew up nearby up nearby it, and I know the people that it's sort of based on. You know all those hillbillies. So anyway.

There was this guy playing a banjo. Alright, but wait. Rorschach, the Jersey hardcore band. If you're a metal band, that's like such a fucking compliment. Torture, terrorist. That's metal as fuck, and I was just proud to know that they were a post

hardcore band from New Jersey. That's very cool. There's a scene in Homeland. I was just proud to know that they're a post-hardcore band from New Jersey. That's very cool. There's a scene in Homeland. I didn't realize that was a torture technique until that scene from Homeland where they're doing the same thing with the lights going on. And I was just like, whoa, I really feel like that would fuck me up. That's mean. Yeah. I like sleeping.

One of the things that really sells the torture in this movie is that like they do waterboarding and like, I'm sure they probably did electric shock, but those aren't the ones that they show up front. Like the ones that they show are the ones where you have to think about it as like, Oh, that's not what I think of as torture, but that is torture.

And that's why it's so effective. And that of course is part of the quote unquote enhanced interrogation technique shit that they did. It was like, it was like, all right, all right. We know we can't do these very obvious things.

We can't hurt them with like weapons. We can't hurt them with, like, weapons. We can't, you know. But, like, there's definitely a lot of ways to make people really, really miserable. Like, you step off the mat stuff. I was like, oh, you know. Yeah, that's. But I do think. Yeah, the thing where they bring the mat behind him, too, and then Jason Clarke, like, kind of football tackles him, like, with his knee.

Yeah. I do think the thing I find interesting about the Jason Clarke character is that arc where you're saying, like, he goes to Washington and becomes a suit, but it doesn't really feel like he's grown up. I think what the movie's trying to do is, like, this guy's broken now. For sure. of like working out all this rage that sort of like he encapsulates the worst like oorah let's get him sort of feelings we had in our culture you know trying to just oh if i got bin laden i'd strangle myself kind of things and just whatever it takes whatever it takes and he sort of talked himself into it and he's figured out all of that and then you see like the monkey attachment is like this is this guy who has no sense of like humanity anymore to a degree like

he's trained that out of his body he doesn't really know how to relate to other people he's sort of at a disconnect and then he goes and just works in Washington because he doesn't know who he is anymore there's that but I think it's also just the banality thing of like people follow orders he works for the CIA and they tell him like you know we do these things and he's like okay okay I'm gonna do those things and then it's like we don't do those things anymore he's like yeah well okay I don't have to do them and he doesn't go full michael bean like the abyss like i've lost my mind but he just seems like kind of a broken guy great reference to michael thank you um uh so right but the beginning is it's more close it's 2003 yeah more posts like close to

9-11 we're in afghanistan we're about to enter ir. Or maybe we just have. And yeah, he's torturing this guy at Guantanamo Bay who's a member of Al-Qaeda for info about attacks and stuff. And she's there. It's her first day at the office. But it's like literally she's being trained, yes. Right. Yeah. I was so like I couldn't.

I think just watching this movie again for the first time and just sort of having like moments where I would remember things just before they'd happen. I was just kind of like I had this moment where they did the scene where Jessica Chastain can't handle all the torture stuff that's happening. And I was just like, wait, is the message of this movie supposed to be like, oh, she can't handle it. But then she gets to a point where she can handle it. And I was just like, I don't know how I feel about that. a point where she can handle it and i i was just like i don't know how i feel about that but just there's there was so much at the beginning of like she can't handle it but she's gonna try but she really can't handle it and i was like what why what are you guys trying to do here i think

that's bigelow's trick though she's like this is the information i have make of it what you will and like it can it can really bounce back in her face which i think is what happened with detroit it happened it happened with this too but this movie was more successful than Detroit. But you do have a lot of shots, reaction shots of Chastain in those first 30 minutes. She doesn't have a lot of dialogue. Looking uncomfortable. Right, looking uncomfortable.

But then there's that scene where he's like, he basically is pleading with her like she's going to be the good cop. And she's just like, you're only doing this to yourself because you're not being truthful. You know, she just retreats to the company line. Yeah.

And I think the most telling thing is that, you know, this movie said like, well, this movie is pro-torture because it's saying that torture led us to this information that got bin Laden. And it's like, first of all, years in between. Right? Yeah. In the span of everything this movie is telling. Secondly, they only really get information when they go about it the entirely different way. Yes. Let's take the guy out of the room.

Let's feed him some lunch. It's the lack of torture. Let's tell him it's already here. Right. Like, the movie kind of makes the argument that it's like, that torture shit didn't really work. It does make that argument. The reason people like Glenn Greenwald, who was very mad about this movie, and some other people were mad, was that there's one piece of intelligence they get right at the start,

which is this name of the courier Abu Ahmed. Yeah. And a lot of people were like, we never got that from torture. And like a lot of other people were like, how dare you show anything being gotten from torture? Cause it doesn't usually work or, you know?

Yeah. And Mark Bowles response was just like, look, man, like that's what my reporting showed me was that they got that that way. We tortured people and we got information and it was the obama administration by the time this movie comes out and they're very like you know try very much trying to be like no we you know like that's bad like we don't do that and it's not a good way to do it right we are good and you know i guess it's just sort of i mean that i think that's their line essentially obama had passed the dent law at that point in time the

he passed the dent act and crime was the heroic sacrifice of our great Attorney General. Harvey Dent. Who definitely didn't kill anyone. That damn Joker was like, I'm going to torture twice as many people. You talking about Ricky T? Yeah. Ricky T. Joker. Yeah, Richard T. Joker.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Great callback. Oh, and on the record, since we're recording this in September, I'm sure everyone is really excited. Thank you all for the nice tweets congratulating me on being announced as the director of the fifth Joker movie. They really had to scrape, but then they found you.

So I'm doing the stop-motion fable Joker musical. Can I ask just real quick about that? Why'd you let Kaufman write? Okay. So here's my thing. I felt like I had to rein him in a little bit. You know, I felt like maybe I could be the sort of gondry to his Kaufman in a push and pull kind of way. All right, you want eternal sunshine, not Animalisa.

I want the full sort of heady ideas coming out of him, but then I want to move it into a more fantastical sort of audience friendly kind of emotional zone. Right. The Joker is nothing if not family-friendly and emotional. Right. That's my take on the Joker. I like it. Todd Phillips has his take, and the Crazy Stupid Love Guys have their take,

and Michael Haneke has his take. I can't wait to see that one. We know the full five that have been announced at this point. They're all based off of David Ayer's take, What If He Was a Cop? Right. Right. What if cop, what if twisted?

Which he shouted before he was taken off to jail. What if he was a cop. Right. Right. What if cop would have twisted? Which he shouted before he was taken off to jail. What if I was a cop? By a bunch of orc policemen. What about the puppets though? I thought that was a weird choice. No, it's good. I think when you see how the puppets are used, you will get it. We really pushed the technology very far and I think we've gotten more expressiveness out

of these puppets than we ever have before. I was actually, I was in the edit for one of the scenes also. You should know. They CG out the wires. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes, of course. So this is my stop motion and puppet. And you don't know how to

puppet anything, so you just jerk them up and down. Yeah. But they do take the wires out. So the characters are just like this the whole time. I should clarify, when I said I'm directing it, what I meant is I'm doing all of it. And when I said that Warner Brothers hired me, I meant I just did this in my living room. I haven't seen other people for weeks. You do have advanced CGI wire-removing technology on your laptop.

And Charlie Kaufman did write it. It's weird. It's weird. He did. He dropped it off in your mailbox. I did everything else. You spent all that tick money on, Charlie, I need you to write the script for me. All that tick money.

I hired him. I commissioned him. Write me a musical Joker half-ionette half stop motion fable. And Warner Brothers is like, we're not going to sue you. This doesn't seem like people will sue you. They're not worried about it. Here's the thing. I knew it was a buyer's market.

You're trying to get them to sue you. It was a buyer's market and they need more Joker movies. They're looking at their slate. They have 12 different release slots a year and they only have four Joker movies. Joker only. Yeah, if you make a Joker movie, it will get bought. They also refer to months as release slots now. Oh boy. Happy 12th release

slot, everyone. They've really waterboarded a guy for this movie. Yeah. I was just like, how Great transition, by the movie. Yeah. I like, I was just like, how? Great transition, by the way. Sorry.

I looked back down at my notes and I was like, I want to mention that it seems like they had to really waterboard. I mean, what it looks sure looks like waterboarding to me. And as the director, why Griffin? Oh, this movie.

No, I'm kidding. Yeah. He waterboarded a puppet. Look, it's fine. It's a puppet. It can't feel. I wonder if that's one of those cases where Bigelow was like, we got to do it real.

Or the actor was like, I need to do it for real. I have to imagine the actor was probably like, I don't want to. This is one of my first movies. I'm playing a terrorist. I don't want to. That dude's a fucking great French actor. Is he really? He is in this movie I saw that was like a big, big hit in France

called Hypocrite about young doctors at a hospital and he won like best supporting actor at the season.

Oh wow. And the dude fucking kills it and he was in A Prophet 2 and now he's like a big leading man in France. That's great. It hasn't really translated here

but he's like a great actor and I hadn't rewatched this movie since seeing him in other stuff. One thing that I just felt so I feel like there's also the difference of like who I was in 2012 versus who I am now. Yeah. And like just I watched it on Amazon and had all those x-ray things where every so often I go to pause it and show all the names.

No, it's a great company. It's a wonderful. It's a wonderful system. I love it very much. The ticket available now. Yeah. But I still streaming. I kept seeing the thing where it was like like, oh, this is the person. wonderful system i love it very much uh the tick available now yeah but i still streaming i i kept

seeing the thing where it was like um like oh this is the person it's like just playing terrorist or playing like yeah man and i just kept feeling like are these or how many people is like this their first role and they have to play terrorist in a movie where we're all rooting yeah right which sucks it sucks and it's like that's when people get into this thing of like uh well how are you like how is it backwards if you're only playing terror i'm verbalizing this very poorly but i had this thought while watching the movie which is like the problem is if you're like an actor of middle eastern descent pretty much unless someone decides to make a movie about fighting terrorism there aren't that many roles right that you could possibly go up for. Yeah, sure. Which blows.

And then you imagine when this movie was announced and the casting calls went out, it was the simultaneous, like, fuck, they got like 60 roles to cast. Yeah. I probably have a good shot of getting this. Right. I'm sure there's sort of like a begrudging,

like, we got to get paid in this too. Right. I have a lot of friends that are making the joke of like, we'll all keep our heads down when we're in the confederate audition yeah yeah right right right yeah yes in november come on on the record they they're like forget it i'm sorry it was bad forget don't worry about it don't worry confederate for those of you who are living in november was a poor idea by hbo yeah and uh and of course on the record i should announce that i've just sold

my new TV show to HBO, which is about people trying to make Confederate. It's about the opposition to writing the TV show I love it.

So. Oh, no. It's called The Underground Railroad to Confederate. Yeah. The thing I was going to say, what you were saying about

like how watching this movie in a different place and it's crazy that things have shifted this much in like less than five years. But it was like watching that movie when it came out it was like well yeah

but we're good now. Right. You know we won. We got bin Laden. And Obama had just been reelected. Right. Shit fucking rules. America's on the up and up. Like America's got it going on. It really feels like we all came to it from the place of like we gotta remember the bad guy here is Osama bin Laden. Remember what he did?

We're also right. It's like, look, torture, yes, we can have these conversations, but it's all over now. It's true. Imagine how much he tortured. Yeah. Like, that was Bush stuff, and the Bush stuff sucked. But remember, nothing's ever going to be bad again, ever again. Yeah, exactly.

Obama gets to be president forever, right? Right. That's definitely, that's the rule, right bad again, ever again. Exactly. Obama gets to be president forever, right? That's definitely, that's the rule, right? He's on vacation for now. And after him, we'll elect Malia? I don't know. We'll think about it. We'll just keep going down the chain. It's nothing but black people from here on out. But then you watch this now

and you're just like, I don't like anything we do. Yeah, I had a moment near the end where i was like after all the torture had gone like i was just i was struck with the realization of like she just had the line of like i'm gonna find him and i'm gonna kill osama bin laden and i just heard an electric guitar riff in my head i'm like yeah it was the wonder woman riff and i was just like oh yeah this movie is really about revenge and then from there on out like they

show the raid and they start saying like I just popped this guy and I was just like oh this is this is how it is fucked up yeah but I also think that is how it is no yeah right well they're all just like chilling drinking beer and they're like let's bet $50 on horseshoes and then someone's like go to this house shoot everyone and they're like yeah yeah cool and they all it's all based off of the confidence of this woman and I was just like

it would be such a more like that's the crazy thing that's the someone at a table being like we should should we send two helicopters like 30 guys

right here what do you think and everyone else is like 60 maybe and she's like this is the first thing I've done I'm gonna say 100

and like as someone who's been watching her this entire time obviously you're on the side of like well she's gonna do it she's the protagonist right but also i feel like you get a sense watching it this time i got a sense of like no she's obsessed with revenge it's very easy for her to have been wrong here yep and to see a movie where like imagine getting zero dark 30 and then the twist is like nope she this wasn't osama bin laden that's not the story we're telling they go there and it's like paulie what are you guys doing here and he's assassinated and everyone's happy yes

there is that thing that like they go into the biodome yeah that bigelow bowl like lack of context like this is just what it is thing sure i think you it worked in 2012 because it was just They go into the biodome. That Bigelow Bowl, like, lack of context. Like, this is just what it is thing. Sure. I think it worked in 2012 because it was just like, well, everyone wanted to catch Bin Laden. Like, whether they wanted him murdered, whether they wanted him to face trial. No, I get you. There was a sense of, like, we got to get him. And now this character's lack of context is kind of weird because she just seems like, what's her big hang up, you know?

It's weird to think about that time when that was still the thing. When there was still one clear guy we need to take down. Because ISIS is such a nebulous, vague force. Also, there's an argument in this movie, her and Kyle Chandler, where he's saying

there's no lone wolves to worry about. We have to worry about people who are actually doing shit. You know, Osama Bin Laden, he's just chilling out. And like, then I'm thinking like, oh, that's like all that we're fighting now. It's just like information on the internet. You know, people who can be radicalized in any way

or whatever. I don't know. And smaller events at greater frequency. Right. You know? And Kyle Chandler's like the stuffed shirt who's like stopping our hero from fucking killing him. They give him the worst hair. Yeah, it's really bad. His hair's rough in this movie. It's really bad.

It's like she's like, how do I make you less attractive? What do I have to do? They wanted early edition Kyle Chandler. Exactly. Mark Strong's wig is better than Kyle Chandler. That is how he rose to power in the CIA. Early edition?

Was the cat delivering him the fucking paper every morning? Yeah, he had the newspaper saying, hey, we're going to get Osama bin Laden tomorrow. And he's like, I'll tell you guys. Not yet. Trust guys. Not yet. Trust me. Not yet. I'm waiting.

It's not a cave. But we'll see where it is. But the other thing is, yes, you have this motivating factor in the movie of the death of the CIA chief in Afghanistan, who's played by Jennifer Ely, who's really good in this movie. Really fucking good. And it was a year after Contagion, which she is so good in. It was that thing where she was just popping up in movies and, like, killing it.

And both of those movies, she's, like, the secret heart of the film. She's the emotional core of both despite limited screen time. And what I like about her in this movie is she's sort of, like, to Chastain, she's being like, look, no, you can be, like, a regular person and have this job. Like, you don't have to be this, like, wraith who walks the halls of some office and has no family or life.

Which is like Jason Clarke. That's the counterpoint of some office and has no family or life that's the counter right that's the end where it's just like no i have kids and like they make that joke about him not coming to meet them for dinner right of the six times they accidentally are in the place that gets bombed right that does happen a lot i might too frequently i i remember like the first time i saw this movie i was always caught off guard by the bombings and this time like i was just i felt like I was watching the film making being like well I know because I didn't remember exactly but I was like why is this taking

too long yeah I was like it's a lot of establishing shots this bus seems to be going nowhere important we haven't seen any of the people it's gonna blow up and yes and the first time watching it you're like I've already bombed three times I can't do it a fourth right there were like four

or five bombings in the first hour of this movie. And then there's that thing later where she's in her car and they start shooting at her and I'm like, really? Like, really? Like, this happened as well? But if you've seen it a second time, you know that's happening. You know to expect the crazy violence out of nowhere. I forgot the car thing.

I was like, oh, why? But the contrast between the banality and the hyper-violence isn't as startling when you've already seen the movie. I think it was startling to just because I knew that Jennifer Ely's death was coming, I had that moment where I was like, oh yeah,

it happens in a car explosion. And then I started realizing she's being way too positive about this. She's way too skung-ho about this. And then i was like so they are also focusing on her entirely like maya's not even in these scenes right she's just like lol like she's iamming her like i'm like we got him brb i was just like well this is not how cia operatives should no no and i also you know, both... Cars coming super slowly and forebodingly SMH. I'm gonna make him a cake and pour...

I was like, this is such a high... Like, she really wants you to love this just to make it hurt so much more. It does hurt. But the Jeffrey Hill-Chastain relationship is a fictional relationship, and they're both kind of composite characters of some different people.

Sort of, but yeah, the Chastain character is supposedly mostly based on this woman who sounds absolutely insane i don't mean to be mean about a person who works for the cia and could probably have me murdered all kinds of ways um but uh if you don't do that anymore yeah i should i want to i want to find her name because the person she's based on is crazy. Jessica Jastik. Crazy. Yeah, it was Jessica Jastik.

That's why they cast her. And wasn't Homeland also based on the same woman? Yes. It's Alfreda Frances Bikowski who headed the Bin Laden station and the global jihad unit, which sounds just like a blast i mean that sounds like so much fun uh she is known as the queen of torture she married her boss michael schuer who famously once suggested that we should consider creator of the good place creator my boss who famously once said we should assassinate barack obama i remember him saying that in the

room yeah he tested it on you guys and then he was like, should I say this publicly? We were like, it's not going to work out of Kristen Bell's mouth, but if you tweet it... Okay, bad joke pitch. Bad joke pitch. She seems a lot tougher than this Maya character.

Tougher is one word for it. Scarier. I don't know whatever you want to put it. But definitely, it's clear that they've softened. There's definitely an element of her there. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think, yes.

They've said she's a composite though, so there are other characters that are wrapped into her. But I read, I did almost no research into the real events that this film's depicting because it obviously takes

a lot of liberties. I did look into this woman a little bit, but the one thing I got, because Amazon X-Ray so pleasantly gifted it to me, was that in real life, that meeting

was like the fourth time the guy had come to visit them. Oh, really? You mean the bombing, the Jeffrey Lee step? Yes, the doctor character, right. He had come and spoken to them three times.

So they were like more guarded the first time he came. Sure. And then when like three or four times later, they were like, you know what? He's really sat down. He's given us a lot of information. Clearly, our guard is down. We're fine.

That's when he pulled the trigger. Right, whereas it does feel a little like where they're like, she's like, don't worry about the gate. Just bring him in. And they're like, well, we usually check people coming in. As soon as she did, I was just like, well, I know that's not how it happened, but still, this is a stupid thing for someone to do right right it goes a little into that like uh uh the lego batman thing where the guy's driving the car and he's like i love my

life i hope nothing bad happens to me today like she's like making the cake yeah she's like brb but we'll just talk to this guy very quickly and then definitely we'll still be alive at the end of talking to him I it's almost it's like it feels like the only thing she didn't say is I can't believe I'm getting out

of here tomorrow or like right one day till retirement yeah so excited for my three day weekend but that is not really a composite character

Jennifer Ely that's just based on Jennifer Matthews who was like the person okay you know the station chief

I feel like we didn't learn she was a mother of three until she died. Until the TV report. Yeah. But so then at the end of that, that's when Jessica Chastain, when Maya was like, yeah, I'm going to kill Bin Laden. It gets kind of personal at that point. She's made it personal.

Do we need that? I don't know. I feel like it really, like, I mean, if they had taken a turn where it was about her obsession with it. Sure. Which I feel like they kind of did, but they didn't really hit it maybe as hard as i wanted them to then i feel like that would have made sense but that line just feels like it's a line for people in the theater to be like yeah now we're now it's all positive from here on out it does i think mark bull is a bad writer of dialogue i think that comes through a lot more in detroit

what else has he done besides Detroit? Hurt Locker, this. He's just the guy who works with her. Bigelow and Bull. Turns a lot. He also apparently wrote the story for Call of Duty Advanced Warfare.

Yeah, you can tell. So there you go. And Serial Season 2 oh wait that's true yeah Serial Season 2 is him

trying to research the Bo Bo Bergdahl movie a lot of B's happening Bo Bergdahl Bigelow and Bowl they are gonna join up and start a law firm

right and they're gonna buy Sterling Cooper Draper Price yeah yeah yeah I know that's not a law firm before anyone corrects me I know that's not a law firm. Right. They're going to buy Sterling Cooper Draper Price. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that's not a law firm. Before anyone corrects me, I know that's not a law firm. Form? Before anyone corrects me,

I know the name is firm, not form. But here's my question about the movie. So you got those first 40 minutes that are pretty solid plot-wise, you know, the beginning of the movie up until it even dies. And I think effectively upsetting. I agree. Then you have the last 40 minutes which are essentially like once gandalfini comes into the rate right right where you're but then there's this middle 40 minutes yeah that's kind of just like shit happening and it's like like a lot of time is passing but we're not really being told how much

and i loved it in the theater and i felt uh i was a little bored watching it, re-watching it. Yeah, because I remember being on the edge of my seat and just being like, this is such an interesting process movie. Like, I like watching the gears work. It is probably a better movie in theater. I should acknowledge. It's been a while. And yeah, when you're locked in with it, I guess, yeah,

you have to pay more attention to all the info that's sort of dripping out. Yeah, and I watched it on an iPad, which is not the best way to watch this movie. Yeah, and you were jerking off, which is weird. But it lasted pretty long plus you had to give Kaufman notes just three things at once I feel like one of the strengths of watching it in theaters is something that I was

complaining about in re-watching which is that because they put all those torture and the explosion stuff up front you're like so focused on like holy shit things are going down and then you have that slow piece where nothing's happening but you're so focused on, holy shit, things are going down. And then you have that slow piece where nothing's happening, but you're still focused.

You're still kind of on the hook. You're still focused, but right. At that point, it's basically she being like, this guy's alive. And people are like, no, he isn't. And she's like, I think he is. And people are like, no, he's not. And it's sort of that for a while.

It's a guy buys a Lamborghini. There's sort of stuff. Which I'm still very confused about how that, what did they get out of that? He gives them a name or a phone number or something in exchange. Or his mother does maybe. There's some exchange happening there.

Because that's when Jason Clarke goes to see the wolf, who's another real CIA guy who is this white CIA agent who converted to Islam upon being stationed in the Middle East years ago. And he's like, give me $250,000. I want to buy a Lamborghini. And the guy's like, I don't know. That's a weird scene. And also, it can't wait until the next

morning. He is a good actor. But they have to get him out of bed. The Lamborghini employee. Yeah, that's weird. I feel like it was a real show of this is how serious I am. I'm not even waiting. Let's do this now. Lamborghini yeah that's weird I feel like it was a real show of like this is how serious I am I'm not even waiting let's do this now Lamborghini

right did you ever watch Lost Demi because I know you have I did well The Wolf is played by the sheriff who arrested Kate that's that guy

the guy who dies in the pilot yeah Sheriff Mars but he keeps coming back in the Kate episodes he's always like I'm here to arrest you she's like no

and we're like you're not gonna last. Buddy, don't get on that plane. He's the real Bin Laden of that story. Yeah, he is. Doesn't make it to the end. No, but there's... I remember, like, be her writing the number

of days on... That's right at the end. I remember that being like this thing throughout the whole movie being like, fuck yeah, she's not giving up. And that's like a the end I remember that being like that's once they found the building throughout the whole movie being like fuck yeah she's not giving up and that's like that's like a montage that lasts like

four minutes it's just at the end I remember this movie having this real sense of propulsion to her persistence right yeah

and then it feels like there are a lot of long stretches where she's kind of taking a back seat she's there in the background looking on intensely and

white knuckling it but it's just kind of watching all the gears very slowly. Yeah. And that part of her story is formless because, yeah, nothing really is happening. Right. There's that scene where they're watching Obama's interview. But, yeah, it's sort of nothing.

It felt like in theaters you were watching this woman who was like everyone else around her. She's like, we just got to give up. And she was like, no, we have to do this for the country. And this one, it feels like everyone is focused enough. and then they feel like they hit a dead end like well we have to move on to other things and she's like i'm obsessed with it yeah so it's just yeah there's that scene where she yells at kyle chandler like somewhat maniacally which is kind of great yeah she's good it's the oscar reel scene it is definitely the oscar scene along with the crying at the end yes i love her in this because I think, I really admire

the fact that she doesn't try to play her like a conventional badass. Yeah. Agreed. That she is. But there are these shots of her, man.

Like, there's that shot of her coming out of a tunnel where she's all in shadow and then, like, and she just looks like, she's not doing anything weird. Like, she's not, like,

confident or anything right but there's no posturing it's just her intensity which is like very striking but she's got this very high pitched voice she's this very kind of

delicate looking woman you know she is very vulnerable but she's just like a fucking like she's locked in on what she wants to do which is kind of

a great magic trick like it's just if you're that serious and focused in such serious situations, you don't have to act badass. Yeah. The context is badass. What I will say, though, is, like, as much as they do the badass thing, I think there was a lot of stuff near the beginning

where they would show the torture, then show her in the bathroom, like, I can't deal with this. And I was like, I don't think that really works after you show her just watching someone being tortured. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't disagree with you. Yeah. I mean, I hear what you're saying, which makes the protest of this movie is pro-torture even weirder because you could argue the movie, in fact, failed trying too hard to disapprove of right it was trying to be like torture's hard on everyone and it's like not really no no it's hard on everyone damn it both there's two sides many sides many sides many sides many sides that's an old reference by the

time this is out but remember when he did it again he brought it back i'd say it's someone went out there and said dr robotnik great, and he defended him or whatever. I don't know, whatever. He has the On Many Sides Weekly show on Trump TV. Look, I mean, a lot of people are saying General Snoke's a good guy. That's true. A lot of people I know, they like him. They like his big hologram throne.

Big hologram. He made the biggest one yet. Everyone's giving him a lot of compliments. I'm a big fan. I love his work. You know what's funny is by the time this comes out, people still hear that name. They're like, we don't know anything about him yet. Spoilers.

Don't talk about Snoke. Yeah. I'm sure that Last Jedi is all Snoke, right? It's all Snoke. Oh, it's gotta be. Yeah, Rian Johnson was like, I see what people liked about the Force Awakens. Snoke! Can I throw some Last Jedi spoilers out there?

Yeah, just do it. The Porgs kill Finn. Yeah, that's what they do. They crawl inside his mouth and then his blood vessels explode. It's like Kingdom of the Crystal Skull with the red ants. Yeah. And a new Finn takes over

and it's just Poe putting on a hat. And you're like, oh, like Finn's hat. Which he had. He takes the jacket back. Yeah, he just puts... Give me that. We're like, wait, this doesn't work.

That was your jacket. And he's like, nope, I'm Finn now. But then the last part of the movie is really good. nope I'm Finn now but then the last part of the movie is really good very compelling very well made and I do feel like

even this time when I was less into the movie and certainly first time you're like oh yeah okay no I'm locked in right right right this is just so

visually arresting and she's one of the few people who knows how to make action unsettling and James Gand make action unsettling. And James Gandolfini unsettling. Yes, certainly. No, but you know that thing of like, oh, you know.

How does he sit in that cafeteria chair? Like, you know, it's amazing. I love him. I love him so much. Well, there's a reason we don't see him get up. I'm sorry, James.

We love you, James. You're the best. I really do love James Gandolfini. By the time this is out, he's back to life. So we have to be careful about what we say. He's president now. That's great. I just would love that.

I mean, we opened the portal for Osama and James just left right after. According to IMDb Trivia, James Gandolfini sent a letter to Leon Panetta before the movie came out. And said, I'm very sorry about everything. I apologize. You're like my father. So if you find something to be angry about please let me know he's like his father apparently that's the part that concerns me i'm like why why is he like your father uh and then months later leon panetta told mark bull i'd

love gandolfini's phone number to talk to him and gandolfini was like he can't find me he's the head of the CIA. I just read you an IMDb trivia. That's funny. That popped up on the x-ray when I was watching at the beginning. There you go. I do kind of agree with what I think you're getting at, David, though, which is when I saw this, I was like, ha, an American epic.

One that justifies the nearly three-hour running time. It's an epic story that needs room to breathe. It's about living with her struggle for this long. And I watched it this time and I was like, you could cut an hour out in the middle. You could cut an hour. You could do the first chunk up to right about after Jennifer Ely's death

and then sort of go like six years later and it's her meeting with Gandolfini and they're close to getting the mission up and running. You can even cut two of the bombings. Ah, you need those bombings. You came to the table with another offer and I'll say, yeah, let's keep the bombings. They're like, Piccolo, can we just cut two of the bombings? She's like, I just added another bombing because you told me to cut the bombing.

I have an editor. Anyone else have something to say? Anyone else want to add a bombing or two? Who's going to get bombed? I don't know, but it's going. You are, Jennifer. Now you are. You're baking a fucking cake, too.

You know the weirdest thing about Gandolfini in this movie is that it's not that far from his performance in In the Loop. No, not at all. He delivers the lines with the same kind of like reedy, tough guy kind of voice. There's this thing where like leon panetta famously like he's a real t-man he's got a dirty mouth this guy loves his cuss words he's a real motherfucker yeah right so he talks like a fucking uh armando iannucci character sure right right like he talks like peter capaldi and in the loop and so like the movie's been like pretty straightforward in that sort of sense you don't have a lot of funny dialogue and then he enters and suddenly

like he and Chastain are both saying like fuck a lot yeah right yeah they're all like anyway so the tradecraft has suggested this he's like yeah is the fucking guy there or not yeah they drop like three weird cameos of the same where it's like Mark Duplass is here Mark Duplass suddenly has a lot of exposition

yeah Mark Strong and then uh fucking Gandolfini walks and like the x-ray pops up at the beginning and reminded me that gandalfini is in this movie but the entire time i was like when's he popping up and then he pops up and i was like wait they're only like 40 minutes left jimmy and i know that the last part of this is the raid and he's not in that he could have been though he's the battering ram i smoked ibrahim fucking got him i like that they say smoked they don't say killed because i feel like that's like one of their words for not like getting too heavy that was one of the things that sort of set me off about like well i'm maybe this was how it is but i have to imagine if you know the president's

watching are you going to be like let's be professional yeah yeah yeah fuck that door blow it up. Yeah. I would love to hear Obama like, smoke them. Get them all. That is the thing. Women and children too. What if she had just cut to Obama like in the situation with a big cigar?

Like she just done the most awful cameo possible. Just like Photoshop the cigar out of the photo when you post this. That is like a reason why, you know, Bigelow is probably better at depicting the banality of, like, successes than horror stories in a way. Yes, I agree.

You know, like, the argument, like, for this being good material for her and Detroit being bad material for her is that, like, what's kind of interesting is her taking, like,

we won and depicting it with, like, the full banality of, like, oh, these guys are bros and they're playing horseshoes and they're just talking about it like it's Call of Duty. You're hitting exactly on the nail. Whereas, right, in Detroit, she's like oh these guys are bros and they're playing horseshoes and they're just talking about it like it's call of duty you're hitting exactly on the nail whereas right in

detroit she's like these cops shot a bunch of black people for no reason it's like yes we all agree that's bad bad that's bad right yeah okay there's not much ambiguity to it and you're like yeah okay she's like thank you thanks for being with me for two and a half hours i was katherine bigelow well and she's like interested in people just doing their job. You know? Yeah. And so that whole section is so fascinating because the raid is so well done on a technical level.

The use of the night vision is really good, and it's so fucking well edited. And it pretty much plays out in real time. Apparently, the actual raid itself was... It plays at 25 minutes. Yes, right. It's like pretty much you're seeing the rate as it went down those helicopters are scary too yeah i don't understand like from a story perspective

and maybe it's just something that happened in real life she's like it's very important i get this down to the like the everything i don't understand why one of the helicopters kind of crashed it did though in real life yes isn't that crazy that's what i i assumed it had to be that because i was like there's no like people don't that doesn't alert them to anything it just seems like a dramatic beat right it's but it we crashed one of the helicopters which meant we had to blow it up on the way out which was sort of like it was kind of like got added to the to-do list it's like kill bin laden get all the hard drives and now you have to blow up that yeah that's a secret helicopter that people don't know yeah

there's like super stealthy helicopter that like makes no noises yeah i i it has like dvds in the seats or whatever i couldn't they're fucking watching joe dirt on the way i think joe dirt might be in seal team six is joe dirt one of the guys yeah yeah yeah it was a weird that was mike colter's uh character yeah um but just the idea of being inside the compound and not hearing a helicopter i i can't imagine that but also not hearing a helicopter that blows up i'm just like what like just how quiet are these helicopters i was just fascinated by that it's not they must be crazy quiet yeah uh but i mean they heard something because but of

course they also blow the doors open so i mean like now now they're alerted in some way but yeah there's not a lot of threat i mean like who's so who's on the it's joel edgerton chris pratt yeah uh taylor kinney mike coulter is there frank grillo yes what uh nash edgerton too taylor kinney is the kind of uh sort of like handsome one who like gives a little light to the girl to calm her down. Which I remember, like I didn't watch the trailer again after watching this and I should have. But I remember seeing the trailer and having that moment in the trailer and being like, oh, okay. So we get to see some of their sympathetic moments with like the Arab people. And you just realize realized like no that

was a manipulation yeah right he's just like you need to be quiet it's just on the job like shit done uh ferris ferris is that his name uh i'm not sure who you mean she's working with earlier in the movie oh yes ferris ferris you're right these are all people that went on to like have pretty big roles yeah yeah because edgar ramirez pops up for like half a minute in that one weird scene like even grillo is like a big part yeah right crossbones right yeah don't you fuck with frank grillo and i mean edgerton obviously like taylor yeah all of these people it's so weird that pratt's the most where you're like whoa yeah yeah even duplass it was like this is one of the first times it's just most where you're like, whoa. Yeah. Even Duplass, it was like, this is one of the first times that someone had used it.

Duplass is the Topher Grace role here. Well, when they announced that he was cast, because he was part of that first wave of announcements of like Edgerton, Rooney Mara, Duplass before the movie shut down and then was retooled. It was very strange because he hadn't done anything outside of his wheelhouse. And now he's been in like more different types of movies other people's projects he just has so much to say in this movie because he has to deliver

all of the exposition about the house right but at that point he was like just the leak and his own movies and other mumblecore movies and then he gets announced

in this and it's like the first time he's in a big studio movie and it's like that strange and then he's sort of like in the background like shadowing other guys and you're like

is this going to be his role is he just going to be the assistant and then he's got that one. And then he's sort of like in the background, like shadowing other guys. And you're like, is this going to be his role? Is he just going to be the assistant? And then he's got that one scene where he like cracks the case. Sure. The case of the three women, you know? Yeah. Right. Right.

He explains all of that. Right. Yeah. There were two moments in this movie that I was just like, oh, that feels like it should have been less expository, which one of them was that. And one of them was when we spent this entire movie being like Abdul Ahmed,med we have to find her or abdul abu ahmed we have to find him uh and then they're like well we can't find him maybe he's dead and then someone's like hey he was in the files yeah right yeah uh yeah who is that who just shows up uh fuck that actress yeah she's another one

where you're like oh oh yes yes yes yes yes thank you thank you for telling me yeah it's the lady yeah i'd love to wrap it up already it's that famous actor it's just a moment where i was like lady chastain seems very uncaring about this just off of the frustration of we should have gotten this earlier yeah but then it seems like this was such a big thing why is it so casual why did you like and i i know with all these things I have to be like that's maybe how it happened in real life

but I'm always just like I feel like if you're making a movie dramatize it a bit but still right but again right

that's her weakness and her strength where she's like no no no we're not gonna put the finger on the scale like

she just got handed a file and someone's like hey I found this oh how'd you find it I just looked there's a lot of shit yeah we missed it well and i remember being so dramatically affected by like her arc in the film not her arc but just her emotional sort of like through line as a character

yeah and i was like that's the masterstroke of this movie that it isn't just like a docudrama about you know all the different facets that she chose to focus in on one woman who sort of made her life all about trying to crack this case. Find this guy. But then, watching it again, it feels like she's just there for a lot of it.

Like, it has a little bit of the Patriot's Day syndrome. You know, where it's like, oh, Mark Wahlberg just keeps being in the right rooms even if he's not the one pushing. In Patriot's Day, it's a lot sillier. Right, because he's an entirely fake creation who is at literally every key event. The mayor, the governor, and they're like, hey,

traffic cop guy, you were there, right? You should be in this press conference. We've reassigned you to the shootout at the boat. He keeps on getting reassigned to right where the action's happening. You've been deputized in the Watertown PD. Report to J.K. Simmons at once. Right. Yeah.

But I do find the ending very effective. I agree. Well, one, it is very well. I also, again, it's like it's dispassionate. You don't even totally realize they killed Bin Laden at first. I think that's the best part of it. When she has to look at the body. Just like them not realizing that.

That's him. Yeah. Right. and then they're like oh yeah it's not this big triumphant moment where it's like we got him they were just kind of like oh my god they keep on going through the house and like doing other shit yeah you see no i guess that's him okay take a picture with your digital camera and then they have her check the body which i love because it's like that scene you see in movies all the time like crime movies where it's like you have to see the body of your loved one that sets you off on this like course of revenge this death wish kind of path but this is like well we caught the guy that you've been trying

to catch and she has this look at him like yeah no that's that guy I fucking hate I actually like that moment a lot though yeah that's the guy whose face is very famous around the world right oh bin laden that's I was really sticking to my, no, but I like that scene when they're like, it's a go, they're going to go.

And they do, she focuses on, she keeps the camera on Chastain as they're all leaving, where you're like, right, now this woman who did all this work about this just gets to sit at a desk and watch it happen. I mean, like, she's not going to be there on. I want to see the sequel called Zero Dark Thirty Something.

It's just her, her trying to live out. How will she figure out a life? Exactly. Work. She's done so much work. Now she's got to be single and loving it. Is this the secret TV show you're working on?

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is. Zero Dark Thirty Something. That's why I love Chastain. That's a great fit for free form. I think so. You get-something. That's why I love Chastain. That's a great fit for Freeform. I think so. You get the military families

who love Chastain. Yes, yes, yes. You get the kids that love 30-something. That's right. You're joking about this, but what I do like about the ending is it kind of,

the ending shot of this with her crying on the plane reminds me, and with especially, it's a bit of a layup, but when the guy goes, so where are you going now? Oh yeah, and she should be like, just take

me home. Right. And John Braylock goes, motherfucker, I don't know where you live, or whatever. Braylock kills it. The end of this movie reminds me of the end of The Graduate, where it's like, we did it, we nailed it, and it's like, what the fuck happens now? And she's crying not just because of all the emotions

that she's had pent up, everything she's placed on this one sort of mission trying to find this one guy that's what her life's about and now he's dead right she gets recruited out of hoffman played bin laden by the way he did a great job but don't they say that she got recruited out of high school she says that because that's the scene where panetta sits down with her and he's got like a pudding cup or whatever right he doesn't all great actors eat pudding and a pudding cup and uh and he's like you've been doing this your whole life and she's like pretty much or like you did everything anything else she's like just this and he's like how'd we get you recruited me out of high school and i think he's trying to figure out like is this person crazy and maniacally obsessed with this yeah so she's just telling me what i need to hear

but that's her or is she for real like and then he makes the decision like she this. So she's just telling me what I need to hear. Or is she for real? And then he makes the decision like she's for real. She's for real. But also, I mean, there's that thing where he goes, what do you think of her? And Panetta's assistant goes like, I think she's fucking smart. And he goes, we're all smart.

That's a great line. Mark Boll doesn't always write great dialogue, but that's a really good line. And also Gandolfini just, he loves it. One thing I, just, sorry, you were going to say something say something no i just think it gets to the root of what makes that character interesting which is like this guy's at a loss and he's like i don't know she's smart and gandalf is like we're all smart what the fuck are you talking about it's like but there's some weird x factor to her like she walks into a room and she's not the most powerful person she's not

the loudest person she's not the oldest person she's not the most physically intimidating it's because she's the woman and And they're all like, huh, something about her smarts. It seems different than ours. Everyone just kind of like eventually bends to her. Like even all these like superiors were like, shut the fuck up. Eventually you're like,

okay, it's a go. Maya, do what you want. There's some like weird movie convention that I struggle with all the time because I feel like I like it in a sense of like, it gets to a thing that I'm not like, I'm supposed to not like it because it makes no sense. But just the idea of like,

whenever someone is doubted people who are, their entire job is to play things by the book. They take the risk and go like, all right. And they're just like, like, they're like, I don't know about this,

but you seem confident. And I trust you for reasons I can't explain, so you go ahead. And when someone is like the head of the CIA, does something this big, I feel like I want them to have a better reason. I want them to see the work they're going through or something, and just be like, this is pretty well thought out. So, you're

sure about this? You did your homework on this. You made a diorama of his house. Very nice, by the way. You made up all the plans of the exact marvel characters that we're gonna get to play the soldiers interesting choice of dark hawk i didn't realize he was gonna be in this one but okay mike coulter okay all right um but uh it just just that sort of convention i feel like from a like a standpoint of like as someone who likes watching movies i'm always just like i'm it's so fun show me more of that but just the writing sense of it i'm just kind of like

don't like make it more plausible sure and they keep on going like well there's no way we can really confirm like we gotta take a flyer on this right like their argument is always like pretty good chance but we don't know it's probably someone in there but which is also like a weird tension point that they try to make that doesn't work as a world that knows that they've got him. Right, right. We're not going to know if it's bin Laden or not until we kill him. Right.

Is essentially the flyer that they're asking. Sure, right. And I think, I guess that's part of it, because, right, they didn't know. Right. And Joe Biden was like, let's not do it. This is a bad idea. Right.

And Obama was like, yeah, yeah, we're going to do it. And then he went out and fucking crushed his JFL audition. That was the same night that he gave the order. Yeah, he was like, if I don't do this now, then I got to do it when some other stuff is happening. I need one really good win. So, yeah. That's the movie. It's weird.

So, yeah. That's the movie. It's weird. I wonder, now watching it with some distance, if the movie would hold up better or worse if it had been made before we caught Bin Laden. If she had made the original version she wanted to make with just about the frustration of not being able to find this guy. I kind of wish that she had still gone ahead and made that.

Just because I feel like it's like if we caught the Zodiac killer in 2007, like they aren't going to rewrite Zodiac. I think the movie should be about Jalen Hall. I got him. Ah, he was back. He was downstairs. No,

just like, I feel like the more interesting thing of a movie is not basing it around an event that everyone knows. There's been like, here's how we got to the event. It should be about like, like, I think the most interesting war movies are always ones where it's like if you didn't know about this event here's what happened or

right if you do know about this event here's one slice of it that is such an important thing like we can even just have we got him in the fucking like end credit card or something like that's not the important part of the movie although i think if they do focus it on maya then that relief of like we got him this is the this an end of a period of my life is important right and i right now she eats ice cream in her pjs on this couch and watch the sitcoms but the Maya character it felt like was working on that level like in my mind I was like the thing that elevates this movie is it really works as a character piece yeah and she's just in the middle of this big like kind of historical story you're saying you feel less that way now really Osama

bin Laden is a MacGuffin here right that's right I kind you feel less that way now? Really, Osama Bin Laden is a MacGuffin here. Right. I kind of feel less that way just because I feel like... He's the glowing suitcase of this movie. We as the audience are bringing less to the table and watching this movie now. You know, I feel like having lived through all of it, having it be so recent,

everyone was coming into the movie already feeling a little bit of Maya in them in one way or another. Right. Whether or not they had bloodlust, there was that little sense of like, yeah, that was frustrating, you know? And now it's just kind of like,

I don't know, we fucking elected Donald Trump. Yeah, I feel like we've come to it at a different point of view, just like there's a certain like wokeness around Muslim representation too. So just watching this entire movie and being like, so five years ago, huh? Really? Just five? Just five. Wow. too so just watching this entire movie and being like so five years ago huh really just five just five but this is like the kind of movie that would make people want to support the travel ban if they

were dumb and they watched it the wrong way yes i think at the end when they say the forgotten country thing i also came to this point of like oh that's real that's really that's like the declarative like statement at the end of like a sequence of events like this that's what it's about okay yeah you just have this moment where you have to be like this is very jingoistic isn't it but also but i still was like i want i'm still all in i still support this woman in her quest it just seems a little bit more vengeful and foolish now even though it no it's no you're right i mean yeah i think you're right for me is like i wonder if five years from now this movie

will play even differently than it does now well five years from now it's gonna be good again right yeah that's the thing it'll be a plus dark 30 again right yeah i wonder if this movie is this kind of mood ring for where we are politically like how we feel about ourselves yeah this is the wrong time to be watching Zero Dark Thirty. I'm sorry that we did it. No, I'm happy we did it. Detroit, a movie it's the right time to watch. No better time for Detroit.

And this is the thing. We're probably going to record that episode a while from now. Correct. Maybe a little while from now. You know, I can't imagine a scenario in which when you guys release this, it's just going to be the week

that something terrible happened and then it's going to be the week that something terrible happened, and then it's going to be like, come listen to us talk about Detroit and Zero Dark Thirty. People are going to be like, no. No, thanks. No. Hey, that's why we needed an all-star guest like you. Yeah.

People will be like, the guy who did Gilmore Girls? Yeah, that's the mood I'm in for. I think there's a lot of overlap between Gilmore Girls fans and Zero Dark Thirty fans. They call themselves Gilly's Suits. Can we play the box office game? So we play this game where I try to guess the box office the week the movie came out because I'm a freak.

I have a computer brain and I memorize box office stats. This is part of the hacker look that you have. Yes, right. A homeless computer hacker who only knows box office. You got grift. Now, I have two things I want to point out. Okay. One, this movie made $95 million domestic on a $40 million budget.

Far and away big hit. Big hit. 132 worldwide. So, wasn't a big player internationally. Sure. Shocker. Yeah. But, yeah.

Came out December 19th, 2012. And this was kind of the year where Annapurna really like rose up and they crested this year. The cherry on top was like in a genuine box office success. But do you want me to do the limited release or do you want me to do the week it went wide? I want to do the wide week and then maybe you can fill me in on the limited. But the wide week was in January, right? January 11th, 2013. Now, can I throw out a stat that I remember from the week after this?

Oh, okay. He's really showing off. I think Zero Dark Thirty is number one for two weeks in a row in limited release. But then after that... No, no. It was never number one in limited release. I'm saying... I'm saying...

Sorry. Once it goes wide, I think it was number one for... Okay. Just one week. It was then usurped by... Rango. Mama. Chastain. Ch was then usurped by... Rango. Mama. Chastain.

Chast. Oh, you're right. Holy shit. And now that guy's made it. Yes. About the clown. Which at the time... That mean old clown.

Mean old clown. At the time that we're recording this episode today... Right. I'm dead. Because I saw it and it spooked me too much. Spooky. And then he's like was spooked today. Even though they just said the tile crawl

real loud. But you were saying at the time. Right now, I realize I've been saying it's the beginning of September. It's actually the end of August, but who gives a shit. Today or in the last couple of days, Collider posted an article about like, well, if they make the It sequel where the kids grow up, fancasting,

who should play the kids? You got fan cast as one of them nerds. Are you playing an older Finn Wolfhard? I'm not. I forget which kid it is. It's like the lowest ranking of the kids. They would show the picture of the little nerdy kid and I'd be like, oh, they picked Griffin for this one.

And then I'd keep it. No, because they all kind of are little nerdy kids. I look like all of them now. The problem is I don't look like I've aged enough past any of those kids. Well, also they had you with like Christian Bale and Chris Pratt.

It was weird. You were the one where they were like, huh, curveball. You know, like, because they picked like the most obvious actors. They sound like a weird choice.

We need a horny Rob. In it. Let's save him from the fate of Michael Zorich. Yeah. So this movie. Okay, yes. Opens January,

goes wide January 11th. So it jumps 806% from number 16 to number 1. Right. Having added like 2,800 theaters. Number 2 It does like 20? And being just before the inauguration.

That's like just before. And right before the nomination so everyone was like oh man, it's going to fucking sweep with that kind of box of success. Sure, it was actually a surprise hit. Right, yeah. I mean, to some people, like, ah, does anyone want to see this?

Yeah. Number two is a comedy. It's a spoof film. Is this a spoof and a goof? Or just a spoof? It's definitely a spoof and a goof. It's in the date movie wheelhouse. Oh, no.

But it's by, I would say, one of the sort of movie wheelhouse oh no uh but it's by i would say one of the sort of bedrock auteur actors let me ask you a question did we ever laugh for two consecutive minutes looking at the poster for this movie i think we might have you bobby finger and i once laughed for two consecutive minutes looking at the poster for this movie. I don't remember. Is it a haunted house? Yes. The answer then is yes. Wait, why are we laughing for so long? I don't want to see this poster. It's a specific one. Me and Bobby Finger just went through like every poster.

We went through all the posters of that year. Because it was like a website that was voting on the best poster of the year. Yeah, it was like Imp Awards or whatever. And we got to that one and we laughed for two straight minutes. Is it the one where he has a boner? It's not. I will find it. Which one is it?

I will find the poster and I will describe it and we'll get your reaction on my... Are you sure? Here's my question. Yeah. Are you sure it wasn't a Haunted House 2? When did Haunted House 2 come out? Probably more around when we were doing this. 2014.

Like, are you sure you're right it is a haunted house too because i found the poster and i started laughing and there's no poster for haunted house one that got that reaction out of me okay okay i'm very curious wait no a haunted house is the please show me... Please show me. What? Please show me. Okay, I'm going to show it to Ben first. I want to build up suspense. Yes, I think I remember.

That's good. Is it the conjuring spoof? Yes. It's just... It's Marlon Wayans in a tire swing looking really happy. That got you oh my god did you go see a haunted house 2

I did not I did not I heard it wasn't as good as the poster I mean what movie is how could it be how could it ever be it was a haunted house 1

though so that haunted house 2 comes out only a year later so he was churning them they rushed it and haunted house 2 didn't do as well

but haunted house 1 opened to 18 million dollars very healthy yeah uh i'm sure its budget was two and a half so you know there you go yeah uh number three is a a movie that was supposed to be like a prestige movie also opening this week that got pushed like i just pushed my phone like into January after it timed with the news in a really bad way like it lined up with a horrifying news event

what happened it was really weird that you would never think this movie would line up with a horrifying news event but it was meant to be like an Oscar thing it was kind of originally intended it's like a crime movie so it was also supposed to be just a big thing but they thought it was going to be an Oscar thing? It was kind of originally intended it's also like a crime movie so like it was also supposed to be just a big thing. But like they thought

it was going to be an Oscar play. It had an all-star cast. Max Payne. Exactly. I knew it. As soon as you said it lined up with a bad thing I was like I remember because Max Payne. That armed robbery of a GameStop. It's got an all-star cast. Have you played the game when you walk across

the line of blood yeah forever and it's really annoying I don't remember the line of blood thing but I just remember it slowed down

at times I'd be like well this seems like an unnecessary mechanic it slows down when you take painkillers yeah Max Payne's super cool

yeah really cool guy all star cast big director no don't kind of a big up and coming director he had a hit it has the

stupidest title you ever did here boy and it got no nominations no no no nominations for this one no no no thank you but it was also pushed because it had this scene that uncomfortably mimicked something that had just happened. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Right. The weirdest push of all time. The movie is Gangster Squad. That's right. Gangster Squad. Yes.

I remember now. And they had that scene in the trailer where they break through the movie screen shooting Tommy Guns and that trailer played before the dark night after there was the shooting. And they were like, oh, forget it. Sorry. That was the only thing keeping Gangster Squad from such success. Gangster Squad. What if

there was a squad of gangsters? Now hold on. I've seen the gangsters before. There's good fellas. But you mean like two? Two or more. Oh, okay. I'm intrigued. Could Ryan Baby Goose Gosling be one of the gangsters? Please. Okay.

Gangster Squad was kind of the original Suicide Squad, wasn't it? It was. They weren't twisted. That's the difference. Well, Sean Penn was pretty twisted. He really is. Twisted. Emma Stone's in that movie.

Yeah. Giovanni Ribisi, Anthony Mackie. It's got a hot cast. It's one of my favorite character posters because you know I love when movies are overzealous with character posters. Golly McGrath. You give them to characters that don't deserve them. The Gangster Squad ones, it's like Josh Brolin with a Tommy gun. Yeah.

Like fucking Sean Penn like boxing somebody. And then there's a Giovanni Ribisi one where he's just got headphones on and he's like listening. I've got it for you right here. Oh yeah. He's just listening. Anthony Mackie made it to the background of this one. He doesn't even get his own call. The thing is the style,

the look of this movie is so good, but I, the movie is so bad. I feel like this is the point at which I was just like, no, I don't think I can like Ruben Fleischer movies. I don't think I support. Like I, even with Zombieland, I was just like, no, I don't think I can like Ruben Fleischer movies, I don't think I support. Even with Zombieland, I was like, am I the only

one that I thought was on the fence about this? Yeah, that movie's fine. You got two character parts. Oh, that one's just me looking at film. What is his role in, is it just this? He works in an office? He's the archivist. Hey guys, got some Gangsta Squad news for you. Robert Patrick got his own. He looks like he's eating the cigar.

He looks like they caught him mid-swallowing the cigar and they were like, don't take the photo yet. Is there a Nolte one? That's your ass there. Is he the commissioner or something? That looks like Josh Brolin in makeup.

Hey, Nick Nolte. He actually was. That actually is what Josh Brolin is. Nick Nolte, can we get you doing like a fun kind of pose because we got like Giovanni looking at the film.

No, you're going to get me looking straight ahead at the camera. This is you're going to get me looking straight ahead at the camera. This is all you get. Okay, can we get a smile or something? You got two seconds. Snap away.

Can we get the photo of... I love your Nolte. Thank you. Can we get the photo of Ryan Gosling on a tire swing outside of the police station? That's Gangster Squad 2.

Right, my bad. That's Gangster Squad 2. Oh, boy. Which also got pushed because it timed terribly. Hey, Payne is in this one too. Wow, a lot of people. This is a David Ayer movie? Gangster Squad. Yeah, Gangster Squad 2. Which also got pushed because it timed terribly. Hey, Payne is in this one too. Wow. A lot of people.

This is a David Ayer movie? Gangster Squad. Yeah. And is that number four or number five? That was number three, my friend. Oh, wow. Number four is, well, it's a part of another list I want to go through with you, which is Box Office Mojo's list, Controversy, which Zero Dark Thirty is number 11 in. Can't wait to take you through that list.

The box office Mojo has a helpful description, one word, of every movie's controversy. What the controversy is? Anyway, so this was a controversial movie of the year, of 2012. It was nominated for Best Picture, won two Oscars for screenwriting and... You got one of them.

Art Direction. Nope. So it wasn't Argo sound no editing no wait think think binger no i'm not talking about zero dark theory i'm talking about this movie that we're really named one screenplay and it won an acting award and won an acting award wait a minute hang on a second i'm in the wrong year because i was just like oh it was a social network oh no that's that's a couple years earlier. Best Supporting Actor. Correct. It is Django Unchained. A Quentin Tarantino

picture. Too realer. Which has made $125 million in three weeks. That's a huge hit. And then number five is a musical. Les Mis? Yeah. Les Mis.

I had a dream. Yeah, they all did. It's all of those, I'm just like, I can't believe there were multiple companies like this is our Christmas movie this year. The family's either coming out to see Django or Zero Dark Thirty.

Christmas was really fucking rough that year. Even the musical was like the musical about like. Yeah, the saddest musical. Yeah, revolution and prostitutes dying. Yeah, God. year like even the musical was like the musical about like yeah the saddest musical yeah revolution and prostitutes dying right yeah god you gotta watch russell crowe sing yeah yeah that oh russell crowe just being tortured on screen yeah uh and i he looks like in so much pain when he's singing probably was two one uh four six oh one oh fuck damn sorry uh the hobbit i know one thing about Probably was. 6-4-3-2-1. It's 2-4-6-0-1. Oh, fuck. Damn. Sorry. The Hobbit.

I know one thing about Les Mis, and that's it. Was The Hobbit this year, too? Hobbit 1, An Unexpected Journey, is hanging out. Lincoln's hanging out. Parental Guidance, what's that? That was Billy Crystal and Bette Midler. Oh, I was thinking it was Admission with Paul Rudd and Tina Fey. No, that's right around there.

That's a weird movie. Parental Guidance was like Billy Crystal hadn't done a movie in like eight years and was like, I wrote a screenplay about me taking care of my grandkids. And when he would show up at the Oscars and stuff, he was like now clearly like gray hair, salt and pepper beard, was like looking older. And then this movie comes out where he plays a grandpa, dyed his hair jet black, new facelift, shaved the beard, looks 20 years younger

in an artificial way. And it's like, dude, you wrote a grandpa movie for yourself? You wouldn't let yourself look like a fucking grandpa? My favorite thing is that number nine of the box office is Texas Chainsaw 3D, which I don't remember. The saw, I guess, comes out of the screen. Yeah, I assume.

It was the leather on your face. It was number one the week before. It dropped to number nine. It dropped 75%. It also happened just after that unfortunate chainsaw massacre. It's true. Where the chainsaw came out of the screen. It was a giant chainsaw. That was rough.

But they didn't push it back. They didn't. Let me take you through the most controversial movies ever made according to Box Office Mojo. Number one, by success. Sure. Number one, Passion of the Christ. Brackets, anti-Semitism. Number two, The Da Vinci Code. Brackets, anti-Christian? Is this really an issue?

I remember the controversy being, is bad. Yeah, right. That was was when they got over the controversy of the first one. They're like, alright. But watch. And then they did two more and it's like, well, these are offensive in a different way. Muddled storytelling? Number three, the day after tomorrow. Brackets, global warming.

I guess so. Don't make up things. Oh, we didn't. Oh. Number four, Django Unchained brackets and really thanks for this box office mojo

n-word that's what they wrote now they wrote n-word to be clear oh oh god uh

number five true lies anti-arab uh yeah and then angels and demons also anti-Arab. Yeah. And then angels and demons, also anti-Christian, apparently. I feel like we didn't care by that point. They'd already done it.

We're getting to the best one. Number seven, Fahrenheit 9-11, anti-Bush, sure. Number eight, basic instinct, brackets. Anti-Bush. Brackets. You swore that one to me. I did. I did. I allubed you.

No, brackets. You're right. Nice pass. It should. I did. I allumed you. No. You're right. You're right. Nice pass. It should have been Pro Bush instead of Anti Bush. If I was a writer for The Good Place, I would have come up with that. Brackets, Vagina Flash. Vagina Flash. That's how they describe it.

That's what they wrote. That's my favorite Rolling Stone song. Also, that wasn't the controversy. Wasn't the controversy for that movie that everyone thought it was anti-gay? I don't know. Was it? I don't know. Really? That was a controversy at the time.

It's a barrel among I don't think anyone was protesting the vagina worm. Here's what I'll say. I've never seen Basic Instinct and pretty much my entire knowledge of it besides the character Sharon Stone is there's a vagina flash. Brackets, vagina flash.

It's a gas, gas, gas. There's some weird ones, Brokeback Mountain, Gay Cowboys, Barbershop, Anti-Black Leaders, because they like make fun of Rosa Parks. I don't know if that counts. No, that's not, Barbershop, yeah. Come on. I feel like when you're typing this and you have to say, is Barbershop anti-black, maybe just go like, I'm probably wrong.

Garfield the movie anti-ody number 25 is powder brackets child molester director yeah right these are very good these are their levels here that we have to acknowledge the idea of controversy i want them to reorder this in terms of like controversy yeah it's like well powders too now and number one is the other movies by victor salva including the entire jeepers creepers trilogy uh and then number 41 number 42 sorry is the brown bunny brackets oral sex climax who wrote this list i want to interview him yeah and just let's figure out what's happening the guy who pitched all these ideas just like i'm gonna keep tabs but i want them official all All right.

Anyway, I'm done. Sorry. That was an extra long box office game. Yeah. Well, this has been our episode on Zero Dark Thirty. Zero Dark Thirty. Oh, no, no, because we didn't go with that. No, it's not the titular.

It's not. Speaking of which, I remember thinking I don't get it around the time the movie came out, but I've forgotten. What does Zero Dark Thirty even mean? It literally just means it's like army slang for like half past midnight but it really just means like the worst time like in the dark at night

it's like when's this mission? Zero Dark Thirty. Like it's not like some official military term. It's kind of like a midnight raid thing I always think of the Megan Amram tweet What was her tweet? You know I like my men like I like my zero dark and 30 that's a great tweet that's a great tweet

well thank you so much for being on the show thank you for having me I've enjoyed talking about this movie that I only kind of enjoyed I'm very glad that you were here to talk about this movie thank you we're going to have a great time

with that one you still haven't seen it you said I still haven't seen it as of this recording I still have not seen it I probably will see it in the next couple days

are you gonna go see it in a theater yeah it's gonna be gone soon it's gonna valerian itself right out of the theaters yeah I wanted to see valerian and then as soon as

as soon as it stopped playing in 3D I was like maybe I'll miss this one yeah you gotta see it in 3D it is excellent in 3D that is true like, maybe I'll miss this one. Yeah, you got to see it in 3D. It is excellent in 3D. That is true.

Yeah. I have issues with that movie, but it is... I have an issue with that movie too, which is how much I loved it. No one I've heard... Everyone's like, don't go see it. It's bad. And I was like, it's all right. I'm going to go see it.

I'm the one. The second I saw the trailer with Gangster's Paradise in it, I was like, this movie could be a 0% and I'm in it. So I'll be paying 14 bucks for that on iTunes. Well I'm going to own it on Blu-ray the first second they let me so come over to my house anytime. You're going to be camped out at Best Buy and they're like no one does this anymore

It's fine we'll send it to you Have you checked like do you have the most positive review on Metacritic for that movie? I don't know I might I mean I unabashedly it will be in my top 10 of the year. You gave it like like, what, like a 96? Sure. I mean, Atlantic doesn't rate out of 100.

But for this, you did. You're like, forget the letter system, we're numbers now. Yeah, exactly. 9.9, baby. Yeah. 9.9, baby. No, I really do love that movie. I like some of it.

We'll talk about it someday. When you do the films of Lupin damn right we will yes except we're not going to do all those weird French cartoons he made Arthur and the Minimoys

we're not going to do all three of those the Minimoys trilogy yeah he made three and we're not going to do them that's weird you don't want to hemorrhage listeners I really

I really just want to like Demi was saying just know everyone's everyone's reaction universally nope well Demi

anything you want to plug people should watch the show that you can't talk about working on. Yeah just watch every show on Freeform that comes out next year and watch The Good Place if you haven't already. It's on Netflix and by the time this is out season 2 is on which I didn't write on but still I don't know about so I presume it can only be better

because I have a surprise for me now but yeah and check out Gilmore Guys if you like Gilmore Girls and have 400 hours to spare. And Good Place is on Netflix now. It's streaming now. So it's much easier to watch. It's the best show.

And like, it's the best. It was a delight to work on. If I can fan out to you for a second with a question I have to ask. Of course. Been a big follower of your work for years. Thank you. Love everything you do.

You were the one person who was single-handedly justifying keeping Vine going for me. And then I stopped and they were like, okay, shut it down. But I would still check every six months to be like, has he done a couple in the last couple of months? Do you have those saved anywhere? Are your Vines lost to the sands of time? I do have them saved somewhere.

Initially, I was just going to let them go, but people kept messaging me being like, hey, I hope you save those. And I was like, okay. So I have them on a computer. So you're working on the Criterion set. Please, can there be, or at least... Wes Anderson and I are doing a double pack.

It's a 4K restoration. Of me just doing Oscar vines. That was my favorite, when you would do the Oscar song nominees. The whole Oscar stories, I really loved those. Thank you. Those are always fun, which is why I started doing the Will Smith thing when Vine died. But yeah.

So the Will Smith thing's been really good. The Will Smith thing's amazing. So you used to have to... Oh man, what if Will Smith did a Zero Dark Thirty song? Now I'm thinking about that. For those Oscar ones, you had to create videos with graphics, then transfer those videos

onto your TV and then film the TV as if it was being broadcast live. That was the beauty of it. You put so much fucking work into your vines knowing that there was no room for post production. It was like the amount of pre-production Demi does in all these seven second videos is insane.

I feel like, in some ways, like, to me, that always added to it because it's like, if I just put the video up then that's fine, but just the level of like,

faking it to the point where it's like, obviously it's fake, but I still, I think there's an added layer of joke to, why did you do that much work? That I always think is funny.

This took a weekend. Yes. No, that was the ultimate joke. And now, and now you have the final laugh. No, I don't. Because you killed Vine. That's right.

You drove a steak into a tart. Yes. And then you came on to blank check with Griffin and David. That's right. And we talked about Zero Dark Theory. We did. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me. David's holding his arms out like, Yeah, come on. Please eulogize me in November when this is out and I've died from it. We will. It was a good way to go. I'll eulogize you when I'm in it too.

I'll eulogize you in character. All you have to do is just mention Will Smith once and I'll, from heaven, well, from hell, down with Osama and Gandolfini, I'll be like, that's me. It too, which will have a cast of the grown-up losers who are all definitely the same age, heaven well from hell down with the Osama and Gandolfini I'll be like that's me right it too which will have a cast of the grown-up losers who are all definitely the same age will be me

Christian Bale we both were rushing to try to get god damn it I was like Chloe Grace Moretz yeah right that was the next way to go was that I was gonna do an old guy and then a young teenage girl. And then also Finn Wolfhard

as an older version of one of the other characters. Yeah, he plays the girl. Yeah, that's right, yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, subscribe. Go to blankies.reddit.com for some real nerdy shit.

Thanks to Andrew for our social media. Thanks to Pat Reynolds and Joe Bowen for our artwork. Lane Montgomery for our theme song. And as always, I forgot to introduce Ben. Shit, we did. Are you mad, Ben? I'm fine. Okay, here.

We've done it fucking a hundred. We've done it so many goddamn times. 20, 30 goddamn times. Edit in one of the other intros. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I'll do that. Edit that in. Drop it in now. Remember Yeah, exactly. Okay, I'll do that. Edit that in. Drop it in now.

Remember to do this, Ben, in a couple months. It's a real Bill and Ted moment.