Blaze Your Own Trail - S2:E13- Rental Secrets With Justin Pogue

Episode Date: July 8, 2020

Justin Pogue is an author and real estate consultant based in San Jose, CA. His services are sought after by property management companies, investors, and real estate consulting companies alike. FOX News, The Mercury News, SFGate, and Realtor.com have all featured his insights for the benefit of their audiences. Since 2003, he has developed and managed apartments, rental homes, and student housing across the United States. In this episode we discuss: Justin's upbringing How he got into Real Estate What he does His book Rental Secrets And more! Connect with Justin: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justincpogue/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rentalsecrets/ Youtube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh5iYXEhz1Y Pick up a copy of Rental Secrets: https://www.amazon.com/Rental-Secrets-Reduce-Quality-Communities/dp/1543978479/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1BYX9YP0LR0FL&dchild=1&keywords=rental+secrets&qid=1594216465&sprefix=rental+secrets%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-2 Be sure to follow us on IG for more content! https://www.instagram.com/jordanjmendoza/ Enjoy the show? Join our Facebook community to interact with other fans and guests on the show: https://www.facebook.com/groups/blazeyourowntrailmastermind/ Installing strategic sales systems & processes will stop the constant revenue rollercoaster you might be facing which is attainable through our 6 Week Blazing Business Revenue Coaching ProgramBook a discovery call with Jordan now to learn more! Are you an entrepreneur?Join my FREE Group Coaching Community where we have live calls, Q&A and more! Our Trailblazer Ecosystem also enables you to network with other entrepreneurs and creator hub eliminates multiple subscriptions and logins creating a one stop shop to take action!Use code: FOUNDING100 for 12 months access FREE and Founding pricing for life! (While Supplies Last)Join now! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody's so happy to be back. I just had a couple weeks off for the birth of our newest son, who is healthy, who is doing well. And my wife is doing well also. So this episode with Justin Pogue, he's an entrepreneur and author out of California. Got a really cool story and he's got some really cool insights on the rental market and how you can, make sure you're getting the best deals and make sure you're being treated fairly, as well as some other nuggets. So I hope you enjoy this episode, and I can't wait to chat with you right after. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Blaze Your Own Trail podcast. I'm your host, Jordan Mendoza.

And I've got a very special guest today. His name is Justin Pogue, and I'm hoping I pronounced that correctly, Justin. But if you can, go ahead and give the audience some context about who you are. and what to do? Yeah, you did pronounce that correctly, by the way. Thanks. Yeah, so my name is Justin Pogas, Jordan mentioned. And my focus now is teaching renters how landlords think so they can actually negotiate better when they go to rent something.

And this has implications not only for renters, but also for corporations that are trying to retain employees in high-cost urban areas, as well as for realtors who are trying to create relationships with people who will eventually become first-time homebuyers. So that's my focus right now. That is awesome. And just for the audience, because I'm sure that hasn't been what you've been doing your whole life, right? Everybody was a kid at one point. So where did you grow up and, you know, what part of the country was it in? And what kind of kid were you? Yeah. So I grew up in San was a California, born and raised, all the way through high school. And I was kind of a, I was kind of a tinker. I like to play around with things, definitely into learning business concepts

and how things worked, why things worked the way they did, and really kind of just trying to figure out how the world was put together. And that's kind of all throughout, all throughout growing up. So my, my mom was the entrepreneurial one, so she would always go out and start businesses and try and build her career that way. And my dad was a conservative one who was a programmer for IBM. Okay. So yeah, so growing up, you know, out there in tech country, you know, that's the East Bay, the Bay Area. I used to actually used to live out and conquered for a little while. So I'm very familiar. I have friends that went to San Jose State and got some friends that still live out there. And so culturally, you know, when you think about the Bay Area

versus like Atlanta, right, big, big culture shock, big culture difference. So what was it that actually brought you out this way? Was it after high school? Was it, you know, you wanted to go to school out this way? What made you relocate out east? Well, so I, my first step on the East Coast was when I left for college. And that was up in Philadelphia. And the reason why I did that is I wanted to have the experience of not having a safety net. I wanted a new experience. I wanted something different. And I was interested in business. And that was one of the best schools to go to at the time. So I went ahead and went ahead and headed out to the East Coast. Had my first experience with the Blizzard that year, freshman year, so became very acquainted with the concept of having two wardrobes, one for winter,

one for summer, and the whole nine yards and having to function out in the snow and the ice and all of that. So yeah, that first year was really eye-opening for me. So what was that like, right? You're this California kid. You come out to the East Coast, experience your first blizzard, right? And these are the days of the freshman 15s, right? And so who know, it could have been a freshman 30, right? Like when you're dealing with blizzards, you're eating nothing but pizza, you know, all the warm stuff and all that. So how was that experience, experience in that first blizzard? It was a really good experience.

Like when most people go to college, they just get thrown in a dorm with a bunch of other people. And I ended up living in a smaller dorm on what they called a living and learning floor. so everybody on the floor had a specific interest. The floor that I ended up on was not focused on business. It was actually focused on science and technology. So a lot of engineers, a lot of computer scientists, that kind of thing. So we kind of developed this little community on that floor, which was good during the blizzard. But yeah, that first year, you're in there, you're meeting new people, you're getting new perspectives.

because you're meeting people from all over the country and different backgrounds from the one that I was coming from. So lots of learning, lots of growth in that very first year. That's good, yeah. And, you know, when there's a blizzard, you know, I mean, you're trapped, right? You're isolated. You're stuck. But a good thing that you actually had other people, right? You didn't have to socially distance yourself because like we're having to do now because that would have been miserable, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, in fact, in fact, now I make a point to call my friends that I know are living by themselves because, you know, if you're sheltering in place and you live alone, that's basically solitary confinement. So it can kind of wear on the psyche. So I make a point of reaching out to those folks. They know who are living on their own. Awesome. All right.

So you finish up school. So when you finish, what did you major in? and was it related to what you're doing today? So when I finished undergrad, I was majoring in economics and management. And I had two options, I had two employment options when I left school. One was to go work for the now defunct Arthur Anderson, which was an accounting firm. And the other was to work for a company that also no longer exists called Guardsmark.

And that guards mark was a private security company. And by security, I'm physical security, like security officers at corporate sites and that kind of thing. And I chose to work for the security company because I didn't want to be stuck behind a desk all day, which was a really eye-opening experience. I was in that role, I was managing 80 security officers spread across 15 different corporate campuses.

And when you think about it, your client as a as a security company is not necessarily the person that's true how each of those officers present themselves which also means training that they get is really important that was the first step after after college okay so what was what was your next move right so did you work there and then the company shut down or did you leave prior to them actually going out of business they they were actually still in business when I left and I left there headed toward graduate school. Because after three years of being there, that role, the role that I was in was kind of interesting. It was the first day I started, they handed me a pager and a cell phone. This is back when pagers were still in use. And it was a 24-7 job. Not necessarily that I was working 24-7, but I had to be available 24-7 because I had people

that were working on corporate campuses 24-7. So after three years of that, I kind of decided that I learned what I could learn and it was time for me to move on. And my next step was actually graduate school, which was at the University of Virginia. And I was thinking, well, great, I can take this management skills that I've had

and what I've seen and couple it with this new MBA education, and I can go into management consulting. And that was my plan. So I went ahead and started, you know, kind of doing the preparation and training for those interviews because they interviewed differently than most other companies do. And got that done, nailed practice reviews at the interview down to Pat. I actually got an internship at a consulting company. So I'm on my way. Everything, all the ducks are lining up.

and then the dot-com bubble verse. This is like 0-1-02. So my 12-week internship got cut down to six. And that year and the following year, they had extended some offers to people and then they rescinded those offers. So thank you very much for buying a house near our office. We no longer need your services.

That was the whole industry at that time. So everything, the whole plan kind of fell apart, which is a really good lesson because it's one that's being taught right now is that you go into school thinking the world looks one way. And when you come out, it can look completely different. So being resilient, being able to figure out how else to apply the skills that you've developed is really important. developing that resiliency is really important. And for me, that transition took place from focusing on management consulting to focusing on real estate and property management. Awesome. Yeah. And that's definitely a really important lesson for people, right? Because, you know, when this whole COVID thing happened, you had two groups of people. You had the group of people that said, oh, crap, like, what do we do now? And then there's a group of people

that said, wow, what a great opportunity. Look at all the things we can do now, right? And perspective is everything, right? And so getting that context of, man, I learned this. I've seen this before. I've seen the world shift. I've seen things happen. It probably gave you the ability to be more prepared for something like this happening.

Yeah, no, it's really important for people to know that things similar to this have happened before. and that you will be okay. You will find a spot to land. You will find a place where your skills are not only useful, but celebrated. And it's not the end of the world. And as you point out, there are a lot of opportunities in this whole COVID situation. First of all, that commute that you were spending two hours on daily is now gone.

So that's freed up right there. So there are a lot of opportunities for people to develop skills, talents, and really learn who they are so they can go out and apply it in the world. Yeah, that's it. And, you know, a lot of people have had to get creative. You know, there's people I'm talking to on a daily basis that are like, man, like, I feel like I can use technology so much better than that, right? Because literally the whole world was forced to pivot. You know, it was either you were going to pivot or you were just not going to be able to work. You know, so everyone had to think real quick, like, what can we do?

All right. So, all right. So you decided to go in the route of real estate and property management. So what was it that interested you in both of those? Because, you know, they are two separate avenues that in 2020, they really correlate well together, right? You got a lot of realtors that love, you know, giving those referrals to management companies to get that commission off the lease. you know and so on and so forth so there's a lot of meshing that happens today but it hasn't always been like that you know they've been very separate for a really long time so which one kind of piqued

your interest first was it more real estate or was it more on the property management end well how it was how it was how i got involved in real estate was more from the investment end actually um so i i'm dealing with the the this dot com bubble thing trying to figure out what i'm what i'm going to do next to California and my mom who had been a real estate agent back in the 80s that never really took off as a career for her but she kept her interest in real estate and she was just learning about buying properties by paying the back taxes on them and getting ownership of them. So she says, well, I'm going to, she wants to go down to pool and take a look at some of some of those properties. So she's like, well, might as well come along because you're not doing anything else right now.

let's just go look at a few of these properties. And one turned into another, turned into another. So we took a road trip to Florida. And on that trip, we ended up buying three vacant pieces of land off of that land's available list. And then flipping those to developers who were then going to build on them. And that's really where the whole real estate conversation started.

And then from there, it led to in multifamily property, residential property, got up to about 72 units, needed to be run and managed and all of that. And that's where the property management angle comes in. And so that's where that ride really started. Okay. So you guys made some investments, made some investments in multifamily. So what was the next step? You know, what was it for you that did you decide to go full in into that line of work?

Or did you partner with your mom? Or did you say, hey, you know, thanks for this awesome training and this real life experience. This is something I actually want to pursue. I basically went all in. So for the next 10 years or so, I was on the front lines managing property renting units. dealing with residents, signing leases, marketing properties, all of that. And then dealing with the issues that come up around that. So a couple of interesting stories.

So earlier on, some of the properties that we had, one of the properties we had bought was a 32 unit apartment building. And we had set aside some cash for repairs and that kind of thing. But we just, one month in particular, we were just hit with repair after repair, after repair. And one of those repairs was the main electrical panel for the building had to be replaced, which pretty much wiped out all the money that we had set aside. And then the day after that, this lady calls about her refrigerator. I'm like, geez, this is like the straw that breaks the camel's back. So I'm like, okay, so we get in the truck, drive to Lowe's, pick up the refrigerator,

and through this whole process, I'm thinking about this $500, like I've got to spend on this refrigerator that they really don't have and how are we going to do this and all of that. And because my mind is focused on that, I'm not necessarily thinking about, did the Lowe's guys strap that refrigerator in the way it should have been? And that's my fault. That's not on Lowe's. So Lowe's don't, you know, don't call me on that. But that's my fault for not checking me on that.

But I'm driving back to the apartment complex. The refrigerator actually flies out of the back of the truck. So it's one of those moments where the world goes into slow motion as I see this refrigerator flat out of the back of the truck. Luckily, doesn't hit another car, doesn't hit anybody else. the refrigerator actually still works and it isn't too badly damaged and that kind of thing so I can still use it. But it was also a good lesson for me that very early on, you really have to focus on what you're doing in that moment and not be distracted by the circumstances around what you're actually doing in that moment. And another kind of interesting story that I have from that time is there was another month where we just had a flood. I mean, 32 unit building is two stories, so half the units get flooded.

And then dealing with the aftermath of that, because I had never been through a flood before. So our office was in one of the apartments, and I'm on the second floor, and I'm on the second floor. watching the water rise. Like that is like the most helpless feeling ever. Like you're watching the water rise. And I don't, I mean, I've never been through a flood before. So I don't know really how to handle this. So I call surf prep.

You know, like they have to say in the commercial, like it never even happened, right? So talking to them, they wanted $2,000 per apartment to just go in and tear everything out that had been touched by water. was not even not even put anything back. I'm like, well, don't really have 32 plus grand to a drop on this right now. So what I ended up doing was we had a vendor who was a carpet cleaner.

And they knew about water extraction and all of that. So I called them and started asking them some questions and put together a plan to kind of get everything cleaned up and get back to normal. But another great lesson from that story is your vendors are extremely important. They bring a lot of knowledge to the table and they can help you resolve all kinds of situations. So having great relationships with your vendors is extremely important, whether you're just an investor or your property manager. Those are really important relationships. No, a thousand percent agree. And, you know, those are great stories because, you know, listen, the audience is going to hear these and say, man, like, I remember that happening or I remember something like this happening. And, and I know that for all of us, we've all left something on top of our car and driven down the street. Right. Like, maybe it wasn't a refrigerator, right? Because that would be terrible because that's a, that's, that's, you're investing a lot of money into that. But we've all done that, right? And so, you know, that message of,

make sure you're focused on the task at hand. Like that's super important. But also those vendor relationships, I've been in property management now for 14 years. They are everything, right? The, you know, if you treat them well, guess what? They're going to treat you well. They're going to remember how you made them feel, right?

Yeah. I mean, because in the flood situation, it's not only affecting my building. It's affecting the whole city. The fact that they took my phone call in that situation, matters. The fact that they actually came and saw what my situation was. And they came, it was in the middle of the night when they came to look at what my situation was. And they put me ahead of other calls that they were probably receiving. So that relationship was everything.

Absolutely. Yeah. Without that, who knows, you'd have been in a world of hurt for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just interesting. Because on top of like getting the apartments back together, there was also a TV crew that showed up. Residents are asking all these questions. And it's it's a lot to process at any one time. It's like when people tell them, people ask me, well, what's property management like? It's like, well, it's a combination of a lot of really simple tasks. But the complexity is all of those things need to happen at once. That's it. Yeah. And it has to be ran like a well-oiled machine. right when there's when there's a missing link or when there's something off i mean utter chaos can just

uh can happen really really quickly so all right cool so so you did that you know you manage some multifamily properties so what was it was there some type of you know pivotal moment for you where you just said you know what i've got a lot of info i've got a lot of real world experiences i think i think i want to write a book i think this is something where you know whether it was you know what people keep asking me questions and instead of asking them let me just write a book so all these answers will be in there like you know what was it that made you kind of come to this fruition that this is something you wanted to do no absolutely um so i uh after i left managing my family's uh portfolio i moved back to california i actually took a property management job with with a corporation because i wanted to see how it was done differently um in a corporate setting and how they organized that property management role. And I was there for about a year. And I left that company and one day I'm in the bookstore.

And I'm looking at the real estate section. And I see books for owners, managers, and investors. I'm like, somebody's missing from this equation. Like, there's a vital group that nobody's talking to. And it's the four. 43 million rental households across the U.S. that I did not see any books there for. And there's a lot of confusion around renting. Like, why are landlords asking for certain pieces of information?

How do I present myself to a landlord? What language are they even speaking? And there's really no training, no classes, no books, no nothing out there. And that and the lack of information really contributes to the level of frustration and hopelessness that a lot of people feel when they go to rent a property. And it also has some really negative implications for the political discussion that takes place around housing and, you know, all the conversations around rent control and zoning and building and the entitlement fees and this whole conversation that we're having. around housing, which, by the way, still has not gone away, even though COVID's on the front burner. All of those problems that we had before are still there simmering in the background. So this book is really a way to kind of educate renters about how landlords are thinking,

what their thought processes are. And then kind of let them, clue them into what levers they can pull to. not only have a better relationship with the land, but also negotiate in a way that benefits both parties. That's awesome. And so for the audience, can you give everyone the name of your book? And then also, if somebody is listening that's renting an apartment or a home, does this benefit both of them? Yeah. No, that's a great question. So the name of the book is Rental Secrets. And it, the book is written in a way that it speaks to every rental situation. So if you're renting a house, you're renting an apartment, if you're renting a room, and regardless of what geography

you might be in, there's information in the book that really speaks to your situation. Because there are certain specific things that landlords are dealing with regardless of where they are. One is that they're renting space. for money. If their space is vacant, they're not getting any money. But it gets worse than that, because that money that they lost, they can never get it back. I can't rent somebody in an apartment from last week. That has no value to them. So that creates a bias towards action for landlords as far as if somebody's willing to make a deal on one of my vacant places today, let's really talk and negotiate that out because I need to have somebody in that place today

because I'm tired of losing money. And that's a situation that every landlord is in, regardless of geography or what size of property they're renting. Perfect, perfect. And so what would you, right, just to give some value to the, audience here. So what would kind of your your top three tips for renters be, whether it's, you know, make sure that you ask these questions, make sure you're looking out for this. Don't ever rent a place if this, if this is in the language, you know. So what are some tips,

maybe three best practices that you can give to renters that might make their experience a little better? Absolutely. So the first thing is when you're going to rent, when people are go to rent a property. Generally, what they do is they take, they take one day and they go on this whirlwind tour of 10 properties. And because they're only taking one day, they don't give themselves time to ask the questions they need to ask at each property and really talk to the leasing associate, find out the specifics about that property and what the rules are on quiet hours and that kind of thing. But they also don't leave themselves time to interact with the residents who already live there. Because those people are an amazing source of information. Whether you rent there or not,

it doesn't matter to them. They've already signed their lease. So they're more likely to give you the totally unvarnished truth about the property and their experience in their experience there. because rent is not just about the amount you pay, it's about the value that you get for what you're paying. So that's my first piece of advice. Second piece of advice, most people are going and looking at properties online and they'll see a price online for that particular apartment. If you go to the property and they want to charge you more than the price on the internet because they saw your car or they found out that you're from an urban area or whatever, just run. Just don't even entertain that because what's happening is property management is about

the relationship, as we mentioned before. And if they're willing to change that price on you because of those factors, the relationship is already starting off in a negative place. So it's probably not likely to get better from there. So I would advise people not even to entertain that. If there was a price that's advertised, they should be honoring that price. And the third thing I advise people do who are renting, don't just go and take the tour during the day and all of that when the leasing office is open. Come back at night.

Or better yet, come back at night on the weekend. So you can find out if, you know, if that park down the street that the leasing is so. really talking about that, is that really a great place for your kids to play? You know, or when they say, oh, there's plenty of street parking. Yeah, come back at 5 o'clock and see if there's real parking there or if it's three miles away. And it gives you a sense for the life that happens around that property at different times of the day and on the weekend. You may come back on the weekend to find the pool is full of, you know, guests. from apartment 19, not the residents who live there.

But really get a feel for the experience that you'll have at this property so you can be so you can be more sure that this is the actual property for you. You know, and and not feel like after you signed the lease, like, oh, this was a huge mistake and have to figure out a way to either bear with that situation for the next year or to try and subletter, try and make an arrangement to get out of that. It's a lot easier to do your homework up front. Awesome. And those are definitely three really great tips.

So for those of your listen, hopefully you wrote those down or you can always rewind it to get those tips once again. So where can everybody find you? If somebody's listening to this and they say, you know what, I think that's great. Those are some great tips. Those are tips to be helpful. But I need more info. I need to get in touch with Justin. I need to pick up his book.

I need to follow him on social media. So can you give the audience the best places to get in touch with Justin Pope? Yeah, absolutely. Rentalsecrets.net is the main website. I'm also on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And one of the things that I've just started doing is releasing just little nuggets of information across the social media platforms on a daily basis. So that so that people can kind of get exposed and digest that and then kind of look forward to the next little nugget coming up the next day.

That's awesome. Okay. Well, I'll make sure that all of that info is down in the show notes. So people can reach out to you. People can pick up the book. Listen, I really appreciate you taking the time. I know you've got a busy schedule in the works. Even though, you know, COVID's happening.

Like you said, I mean, we're not having those commutes anymore. So we're able to put more time into our day. versus less in my opinion. So, hey, listen, it was great, Justin, having you on the Blaz Your Own Trail podcast, and I hope you have an amazing rest of your week. Thanks, Jordan. Had a great time.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to that episode with Justin Pogue. Make sure to reach out and connect with him. All of his info will be over in the show notes. Really, really great guy. I can't wait to share the next episodes with you. I've got a bunch of really, really often. interviews coming out through the pipeline. And I'll also be doubling up on content to make sure that I could make up for the lost time.

So hopefully you all are well and I'll chat with you on the next episode.