Blaze Your Own Trail - S3:E8- From Prison to Prospering with Zach Babcock

Episode Date: March 5, 2021

About Zach: From over 5 years in prison to building a 6 figure business, my name is Zach Babcock, and I help entrepreneurs launch, grow, and monetize top shelf passive income businesses and personal brands. I interview celebrities and industry leaders on the top rated Apple Podcast, Underdog Empowerment, and I have a broad perspective from both extremes of life. In this episode we discuss: Where Zach grew up How he feels about his Mom What kind of sports he played Some trouble he got in Hard time behind bars His experience with Networking Marketing Underdog Empowerment And more! Connect with Zach: https://www.zacharybabcock.com/ Connect with Jordan: https://linktr.ee/byotconsulting Want to connect further? TEXT ME! 404.737.065 Installing strategic sales systems & processes will stop the constant revenue rollercoaster you might be facing which is attainable through our 6 Week Blazing Business Revenue Coaching ProgramBook a discovery call with Jordan now to learn more! Are you an entrepreneur?Join my FREE Group Coaching Community where we have live calls, Q&A and more! Our Trailblazer Ecosystem also enables you to network with other entrepreneurs and creator hub eliminates multiple subscriptions and logins creating a one stop shop to take action!Use code: FOUNDING100 for 12 months access FREE and Founding pricing for life! (While Supplies Last)Join now! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody. I hope you all are doing well. Super pumped to just be wrapping up my seventh week of full-time entrepreneurship. It's been amazing. And, you know, I've been getting a lot of feedback from the audience that they want more access. And so I've actually created a text community. And I would love it. If you have any questions or if there's any way that I can resource it via assistance, feel free to text me. The number's 404-737-0651. That's 404-7-3-7-0-6-51. Looking forward to hearing her from you and have an amazing day.

Are you ready to find out how to blaze your own trail? Welcome to the Blaze Her Own Trail podcast with your host, Jordan Mendoza. In this podcast, Jordan interviews people from around the world to find out about their journey to success. If you're looking for valuable content with actionable advice, you've come to the right place. And now your host, Jordan Mendoza. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Blaze Your Own Trail podcast. I'm your host, Jordan Mendoza. And I've got a very special guest today.

His name is Zachary Babcock. And I'm going to give him just a second to tell you a little bit about him and what he does. Yo, what's up, Jordan? Thanks for having me. My name is Zachary Babcock. And I did over five years my life in prison for being a knucklehead, got my stuff together when I miss out on my twin son's birth. And now I'm scaling a six-figure podcast marketing agency. Awesome, man.

Well, thank you for sharing that. And we'll definitely dive into the context of your story and your journey. And really where I like to start the show is I like to do a big rewind. I love to give people deep dive into some context. So where did you grow up here in the U.S.? And what kind of kid were you? Did you enjoy sports when you were young? younger, were you more into school? Let's give us some context about the adolescent years,

you know, elementary middle into high school. Yeah, man, for sure. I grew up in a Ferguson, Missouri. It gets a crazy bad rap in the U.S. because of the Michael Brown situation. That was very unfortunate. But it's a really great town. I grew up there, a lot of good people there. I grew up without a father. So I was raised by my mom. She was amazing. Best mom I could ever asked for. And I never did good in school because it just wasn't for me. You know, it is for some people. And it's not, it's not for everybody. My attention span for it just wasn't there. Like, don't me wrong. The teacher said I had ADD, ADHD, ABCD, all that stuff, right? It just, I couldn't get focused on things that didn't interest me. And it wasn't that I was a dumb kid because I got good

grades whenever I did do it and then or whatnot but it just wasn't wasn't my thing I was always like an entrepreneur believe or not like I was selling Pokemon cards and in grade school and and hustling baseball cards you know I mean you name it um was always you know trying to create and build something so I didn't really do well in school I started smoking weed when I was nine years old because I wanted to fit in with other people I didn't have a father figure and I was trying to look up to other people to to be accepted I mean we all do it to an extent I probably We did it a little bit more than others. And I wasn't, I was doing things that didn't really align with who I was as a person.

I wasn't living in integrity because I just wanted to be accepted so much. And, you know, that led into, you know, my adolescent teenage years wasn't going to school at all. Was this, you know, smoking weed, drinking here and there, but smoking weed a lot and just getting in a lot of trouble, just being, really just being young and dumb and not having no chief aim in life, honestly. Gotcha. No.

Appreciate you. in that context. I can definitely relate on the school end because I didn't enjoy it at all either. And if it was grades or areas that I enjoyed, I did really well. I would excel. But I definitely was like that as a kid. I was very hyper as well. So I can completely relate. And I knew that after high school, I knew I wasn't going to go to college. I knew that it just wasn't in me. So I definitely feel you when it comes to just not being in your DNA. And I also did a lot of the same hustling when I was younger, you know, the baseball cards, lemonade stands, you know, I was always trying to grind and make money because, you know, we grew up very, very poor, you know, food stamps and section

aid and goodwill and stuff like that. So, but I think when you grow up in circumstances, when you don't have a lot of money, when you do start to earn it, you start to value it a lot more, you know. And also, when you've put in the energy and effort, like you did hustling and grinding, it's a lot more meaningful because you created this yourself, you know. Amen. So let me ask you, man, what are, what are the thoughts? What were your thoughts after, you know, high school, you know, when, when all was said and done, did you have immediate aspirations to start doing, doing your own thing?

Or did you go down some other past? What was kind of your steps after that? Yeah, dude. When I was 17, we went out one night and we were being young and dumb. Like we didn't like we weren't rich or nothing, but we weren't like we were, we had a place to live and we had food and we didn't do without, you know what I'm saying? Like as far as, you know, eating. So like, so we didn't have no reason to go out and steal. But we were 17 young and dumb and me and three other my friends went out and we hit up this rich neighborhood 30 minutes away from us and, you know, from Ferguson.

And we went out and we were stealing from cars. We were just going into cars that were left and unlock. And we're doing a bunch of moments. Some cars would lead their garage doors opening, open her in the car. And so we would open it and then we'd drive off, go hit some other cars, come back 30 minutes later if the garage was still open. And then we'd go in there and take what was in the garage, like power tools and stuff like that, just being menaces. Well, we ended up getting caught the second night out. And I was with a different group of friends.

And long story short, we had a piece of the stolen property from the night before. And they were keeping us detained. And so I ended up taking the rap for everybody and caught some cases so that my friends could get out. and I ended up getting four felony charges that night. And so I thought that my life was over. You know, I didn't know any better at the time. I didn't know that I was just going to get probation. I thought like, man, I'm getting ready to go to prison.

Like I'm 17 years old. Like, it's over. And I just started quickly graduating to all these different drugs. Like I was smoking, you know, weed since I was nine. Now I started ecstasy. And then I quickly graduated to cocaine. And before I knew it, I was a full-blown crackhead and heroin shunky, man. Just going off the deep end.

I thought there was no hope. And long story short, two years after that initial of catching that first case, I got locked up for probation violation because I had dirty urins that I failed for. And I ended up escaping from custody because St. Louis County is coming to get me and escaping from custody and assault on law enforcement officer because I was trying to escape because I was dope sick from heroin. And I ended up going to do four years flat, over four years flat on a seven year sentence at a. 19. Wow, man. Yeah. And, you know, how impactful is it that, you know, when you, when you get cut up and you start going down a path, I hear this a lot from, from people that I've interviewed and even friends that have gone through similar situations, it's almost like you don't know you're going there. You know, like you're on this pathway and all of a sudden you wake up and you're like,

where the hell did all this time go? You know, it's almost like you, the time for you didn't go as fast as it actually did. I don't know if you had that experience, but I hear that from a lot of people that when they're in it, they don't realize how long of how much time has actually lapsed. So what was it for you? Because there had to have been something that clicked, right? Here you are, you get in trouble the first time at 17.

You know, you take the rap for your friends, which is a noble thing to do. And then you end up getting probation. Well, that was kind of like your get out of jail, free card, if you will, right? Like first time, first offense. first anything. So now you get caught up at at 19. You end up going in for four years. Because that's not a short period of time. Some people may say, oh, that's, oh, just, just four years. No, that's a long time. There's 365 days in a year. That's a college degree.

You know what I'm saying? So what are some things that you did when you're in there? Because I'm sure when you got locked up this time, it was different. And it was probably set in. It was probably more real. So I'd love for you to share with the audience, you know, What did you do? I'm sure after you got locked up, you were still into drugs. And so you probably had a little time to get the drugs out of your system. I'm sure there was some time that elapsed. But when that happened, what was your next step in prison? Because I'm assuming you took some kind of action while you were there that helped propel you when you got out. Yeah, man, definitely. You know, 19 years old. So none of us are, you know, we're officially adults, but we're not adults at

19 years old. We don't even know what the heck we want at that age. And I was, still wanting to fit in with other people and be accepted by other people. And so now I'm taking on this new identity of this bad boy persona or whatnot. And I was scared to death when I first went to prison because all I knew is what you see on TV and hear about prison. And I'm like, man, I mean, I know how to fight, but like I'm not like a super tough guy and like he'd try and come up on me, you know, whatever. So I'm thinking about all this stuff. And I'm not being as crazy as what you see on TV or whatnot. But, you know, I didn't really have any plan. My only plan was like, hey, I'm going to get out and I'm not going to come back to prison.

I'm not going to do, you know, I'm not going to do drugs anymore and I'm going to get a job somewhere or whatnot, but I didn't really know. And so during the course of this, there was a lot of stuff that happened, but there was like certain things, like key moments that were like really like paradigm shifting for me. One of those was two years into it. I was in the hole, which is the prison inside of the prison for I had that got in trouble for getting tattoos. And I was in there for two months. Well, two weeks into it, you know, and you're in a eight by 10 cell, meaning I could walk. three steps this way, three steps to next. That's about it. It's dark, dirty, lonely, depressing, very little to no human interaction. You know, it's the prison inside the prison. It's not a great

place to be. But I got called back to the captain's office two weeks into my two months stay in the hole. And, you know, I'm 21 years old at the time, two years into my stay. And I'm thinking that I got in trouble for something that I hadn't got caught for yet or they were trying to get me to tell on somebody else because, you know, if you go to the captain's office, it's not good. And I'm like, dude, I ain't got nothing to say, man. You guys put me back in my cell, dude. He's like, how long you've been locked? I was like, two years, dude.

I don't have nothing to say. Put me back in myself. And he's like, Mr. Babcock, your mom called us a couple days ago. And she informed us that she found your sister dead on the floor with a needle and arm. She had a break into the bathroom for screwdriver. Dude, that was the very last thing that, you know, I was expecting in that moment. Long story short, man. You know, like, you know, obviously I started crying.

And then I was put back in my cell. and for the next three days I'm in there by myself going crazy in this 8 by 10 dark dirty lonely depressing cell didn't get out of bed to eat the only time I got out of bed was to use the restroom going crazy thinking about all the mean things I ever said and did to my sister the goodbye I never get to tell her the fact that my mom's mourning her death and getting right and I had the funeral and I'm not going to be there just all this stuff man I woke up on that third day and I was like you know I'm not a real religious person but I believe in God I'm spiritual And so I was praying to God.

And I was like, God, I don't know why I'm still here, but there's got to be a reason. Or else, I wouldn't be alive. I wouldn't be breathing. What can I do right now to find happiness and peace? You know, I didn't know what I was doing at that particular moment. But what I was doing is I was asking myself the right question because whenever we hear a question, regardless of if we're asking in ourselves or if we hear somebody else say, whatever, we have to search for the answers. If I'm like, yo, Jordan, what kind of podcast microphone are you recording on? you, me, and everybody listening this episode right now is wondering what Mike you got because

this is how our brains work. But I didn't know what I was doing. So I asked that question and it got me to search for the right answers. You know, most of the time when we're in situations like that, we start, we'll be like, oh, why does this always have to happen to me? Or, you know, we asked the wrong questions and we get the wrong answers. And I've been guilty of this many times. I just got lucky enough right then and there that I asked the right question. And what that did, I was in this eight by 10 cell. I couldn't get out. There's no way I was getting out. I put, myself in there. I was there for two months. That door is thick. I'm not getting out of that deal. But what it did is it got me to focus on what I did have freedom, the freedom that I did have,

which wasn't much, but I had my own freedom to choose how I responded to that situation. And I started cleaning my cell deep cleaning. Like if you think OCD is crazy, it don't have nothing on what I was doing, cleaning my cell every day, working out at the same time every day, writing my letters at the same time every day, reading the Bible at the same time every day, all this stuff, right? And it got in this routine and it filled me up. And at the end of that two months stay in that hole, I was like one of the most peaceful I've ever been in life. And it helped me get through a really, really dark time in my life. And so the key lesson though that I learned from there was that, you know, sometimes we can't control what happens to us. Like I couldn't

control the fact that my sister just died from a heroin overdose. But I was able to control how I responded to that. I could have sat there miserable for that whole two months. And, you know, going down a completely different path, but I chose to do something that was going to be empowering versus disempowering. Man, that's so powerful. You know, so sorry for your loss of your sister. And I know that had to have been had to have been tough, man, losing anybody, but losing a sibling, you know, I can't even, can't even imagine. So sorry for that loss.

And, you know, I'm glad that you were able to get to have something so, so meaningful come out of it, right? I mean, you were able to essentially reframe your entire mindset and your perspective on how you thought about things and how you internalize things. And man, how powerful to come out of that two months with light instead of darkness. Because like you said, man, like it could have, it could have went the complete other direction. You know, it could have went really, really bad in the complete other direction. So kudos to you for fighting through it. And also, you came out a stronger person because of it. Amen.

Thank you, brother. No problem, no problem. All right. So tell me what happened next. So you're two years, two months into this sentence now. So you've got, you know, you still got almost two years left to go. So with now a new perspective, right, you're almost looking through life with a new lens. So does that shift anywhere where you're starting to invest your time while you're in prison?

Did you maybe pick up a book here? Did you listen to a podcast here? Like, did that shift your perspective enough to start taking action into a different direction? Not really, man. I wasn't ready yet. I was really short-lived where I was like dialed in because like that moment right there that I just talked about was like the first time I ever felt like a real man in my life. Like I felt like I didn't need the approval of other people.

Like, hey, I'm standing on my own. Like I'm not going to do stupid stuff just to try and fit in. Like that was like when I feel like I became my own man. You know what I mean? But I was 21 at the time. And mind you, that lesson didn't really sink all the way in until, you know,

this was 2010 until 2017. I read Tony Robbins book, Awaken the Giant Within. And he talks about those questions that we ask or so we have to find an answer. And then you ask the right questions. You get the right answers. I was like, this guy's not a fraud.

This is real because that's what happened. And it like, you know, it like tied it all together for. me. But after that, I got out the hole. And I did good for a little bit, but then I slipped back into, like, you know, wanting to be accepted and all this crap again. And not so much of wanting to be accepted, but I had this persona that I had to keep up in prison. I thought, you know, I was still young and dumb. I ended up doing the two years, you know, a little bit over four,

four years total. And I got out in, I was 23 years old. And I got a job at a bar and grill as a cook. because it was one of the very few places that I could find a job at. But then I ended up getting this job. And I did. I was like, dude, I'd work 50, 60 hours a week, best work of the head because I was just grateful for the opportunity. And then I ended up getting the shop, this clothing store because I'd shop there all the time, right? And I got in the clothing store.

I'm like, yes, I'm finally putting my past behind me. Like, you know, this is awesome. I'm moving up. You know, I'm in a job that I actually enjoy doing where I get to be in sale. I've always thrived in sales jobs where I get to talk with people and help them figure out what they want and help them give them what they want. Like I always did excellent in those types of positions. And so I crushed it. I sold $3,000 one day. The whole store did $9,000, my third or second day on the job. And then I got a promotion because of that because I was one third of the

whole store operation. I only worked six hours that day. And we're talking about the whole operation that entire day. And so I got a promotion. And I'm like, dude, like I was fired up. I'm like, dude, not only in a job that I love, but I'm going to become a manager in this stuff. Right. and like my career's advancing. And so I put in my two weeks at the bar and grill where I had some stability in my life where I was working 50, 60 hours a week. And I'm going to do this full time now. And so I put in two weeks at the bar and grill.

And then a couple days after that, I get a call from human resources. And they're like, yeah, Mr. Babcock, we knows we're giving you this promotion, but we see that you're a convicted felon and you can no longer work with us. You got to kick rocks. And so instead of, you know, the lesson that I learned in prison where you can respond to think, you know, you can't always choose what happens, but you can choose how you respond. I didn't file that. I chose to respond in a bad way.

And I started feeling sorry for myself through a pity party, became an alcoholic, a raging alcoholic, and ended up getting a DWI, long story short, and I went back to prison just 20 days from my twin sons were born. And that's a whole other story of itself. But that, that right there was where everything changed for me, because that was the best thing that could ever happen to me because that pain. of going back to prison just 20 days from my twin sons were born. Like, I can't explain to you in words how painful that was because, like, I grew up without a father and I used to play football and all my friends' dads would be at practice.

I used to wonder how that felt. I couldn't wait to be a father and be in my kid's life. And the fact that I was missing out on that because I chose to feel sorry for myself and be irresponsible. Like, that's what drove the change. And right there in that in that jail sale, getting ready to get picked up by the vans to go to prison, that's when it changed for me. moment and ever since the night it's been moving in a completely different direction in my life. Wow, man, that's definitely powerful. So you, here you are. You get out. You're trying to do some good, right? You got a job at a restaurant and you're doing well and you're putting in the hours. And then

you get the taste of sales again, right? Communicating. Sales is one of those skills that you either have it or you don't. Right. And if you've got it, if you've got that gift of gab and you can naturally communicate, then you can sell anything because here's this thing about, sales for for anyone that's listening in the audience the reason why zachary was good is because 90% of the reason why people buy is because of you if they like you if they like your personality if they think that you're going to help them they're going to buy right and and so if you can communicate effectively you can really do anything that you want whether that's a podcast whether that's you're starting a business because sales is in every aspect of every business you know

some people just don't categorize a client a negotiation as as part of a sale. Some people don't put things into that sales category, but if you don't have sales in your business, you don't have a business because sales is what generates the revenue, right? So I loved hearing about that, that you got good at sales. Now, here goes the next pivotal moment, right? You're on this high. You put in your two-week notice and all of a sudden, you don't have a job anymore. I mean, I think that would have probably sent anyone over the ledge, especially knowing like what the trajectory was looking like, right? Because I'm sure you thought in your head.

Just like manager district. Like you're starting to literally see yourself and envision yourself in these different roles. And all of a sudden it gets wiped out. Right. So, but I love what you said that you said that you getting sent back was an important thing to happen because it really put things into perspective for you. You didn't want your thing that could have happened.

Yeah, you didn't want your twin sons to grow. grow up the way that you did. So you're back in jail. Here we are back back in jail, man. So what was it like this time? And how long were you there before you got to come out and meet your, meet your sons for the first time? Yeah, dude. So when I first got locked up, I didn't know how long I was going to be locked up for because I was going back on a parole violation. And so I knew it's going to be at least six months. And it could be up to a year and a half because that's how much time I had left on my sentence. So I knew it was somewhere in between six months a year and a half. I didn't know when I was coming home, but I knew I was going to do whatever it took to get back home

and I was going to stay there this time. I didn't know how, right? And, you know, I didn't know how. And why. So I'm just going to a quick tangent. The book start with why. It's a great book, but you can't really start with why it starts with identity. It starts with who because you can't really say why something's important to you if you don't know who you are in the first place. long, long story with that. I won't get into that. But like literally every single shift that I ever, because I woke up, right? And I didn't, it wasn't my, my why I played a huge part in a lot of things, right? Why is powerful, but you can't start with why. Because what started this whole journey was I woke up and that pain of not being there with my kids when they're, when they're going to be

born. What it was is I literally asked myself, I said, I said this exact thing myself. I said, this isn't me. I love my kids. I'm a great father. I'm a good person. This isn't me. You know, it started with with who, my identity. And then I didn't know what I was going to do when I didn't know when I was coming home. I didn't know what I was going to do when I came home. And I didn't know how I was going to be happy and successful and be in my kids life all the time. But I knew who I was. I knew that I had strong reasons why I was going to do it. So anyways, long story short, I ended up doing eight months. That eight months was felt a hundred times longer than that initial four years that I did previously because I was away from my kids. I didn't get to

see my kids for the first over two months that I was locked up. And on top of that, I had to wait two months before I even got their picture sent in. So I'm sitting there two months after they are born trying to imagine if they looked like me or not. That was tough. Just imagine what your kids look like. You know what I mean? But it was great because it put things into perspective and that pain was like, okay, we're never again, you know, that saying you don't appreciate what you got until it's gone. I mean, it's so true, man. So I ended up coming home and I had this business idea that I was putting together at the time because while it's locked up in 2014, the Michael Brown situation happened in Ferguson and I'm seeing this stuff on the news and I'm like, this is a horrible

thing that happened, but my neighborhood is nothing like they're putting it out to be. It's not some Afghanistan war zone like they're trying to frame it. And I was like, I was like, well, dude, I know when I come home, I'm not going to be able to get a job anywhere because of what I did in my past. And, you know, even though I learned from my mistake, this is going to follow me around for the rest of my life. I'm not going to be able to get a job in corporate America like kiss that goodbye. I was like, well, I'm going to start my own business. I'm going to create these wristbands and these T-shirts that say I heart Ferguson on him. And I'm going to go door to door and sell them.

That's a hell of a business model, by the way. That was the plan that didn't, long story short, that didn't pan out. I didn't have the startup capital to get that going, but I did get out and I started out in network marketing, which I no longer do, but that's how I ended up getting my start as an entrepreneur. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that with us. So try to start a business, right, the first time. Most people's first attempt is it fails, right? Like maybe you don't have the right strategy. You don't have the right marketing or you just, you're just trying something out. But it's good because I'm sure you learned some lessons, right, that you're able to take in to that next venture.

that you were going to start, right? Yeah, no doubt, dude. Like, the T-shirt thing never came about, but the network marketing was where I first got at my start. And, dude, I was, I crushed it right out the gate. Like, dude, I built up almost a $2,000 a month residual income within my first six months based off a peer hustle. I was like, dude, I'm going to go out and make it happen.

Like, you know what I mean? And for those of you that aren't familiar with network marketing, most people that joined don't even make any money because they don't, they don't do the work that's required to do it. And then also network marketing has such a bad rap that industry because there's so many people that are doing it wrong. I was so grateful for it because, you know, in $2,000 a month, like that's not rich or anything, but for a guy like me that couldn't get a job anywhere to feed my own family coming out of prison, that was a gang changer. That was the most money I ever made in my life at that point. But most importantly, it showed me that, hey, my past doesn't have to dictate

my future. I can create a life by design. It introduced me to personal development. So many, things and I learned so many things through doing network marketing that I still use my business today, so many lessons. So it's like a college of entrepreneurship. It's like the beginner crash course is the way I viewed it at least. And I super grateful for my time in there. But it just wasn't my thing. I did it for almost two years. And towards the end, my business had fell apart because I just wasn't passionate about it anymore. I was making like $200 to $500 a month after auto ship now, like my business. And it was just time to go. And I was just hanging on by that little safety net of that little two to $500 coming in. But eventually, I was just like, just cut the cord, man, and go do

what we're really meant to do. And I'm super grateful that I did that, but that I didn't just jump to the next thing and start winning. There was a lot of, a lot of sleepless nights and banging my head against brick walls trying to figure stuff out. Absolutely, man. Well, you know, I completely agree with you, though. I think door to door for one, what, what, a great skill to have, right, to be able to go to a stranger's door and to sell somebody a product. That is the number one training ground, in my opinion, to learn your sales skills. Because if you can walk up to a stranger and then have enough of a conversation with them to buy a product or service from you, then you can sell anything to anybody and any avenue, right?

So I think for anyone that's getting started in sales, door to door and network marketing, because they're both cold calling, right, you're both trying to get strangers to believe in your product or your service. I think those are two very, very underrated skill sets to have because like you said, they really translate a lot into your business today. So after you got out of the network marketing thing, what was the next step after that? Yeah, man, I wanted to become a life coach. And so I started doing that. and I didn't make any money or help anybody as a life coach because I'm just going to be a life coach. I overcame prison. I can help I can help anybody.

And other than that, I didn't have any tangible skills that I could bring to the marketplace other than I could maybe talk with people or whatever. But there wasn't no skill set developed. And I quickly learned that I needed to learn how to market myself. And that's something that just comes. And I didn't come naturally because I had to develop my skill, but I love. psychology marketing. Like that's what I geek out on it. It's like, you know, some people, they love talking about cars and they just geek out on car. Like I geek out on psychology. That's my thing. And so I started developing that because I couldn't solve a specific problem for a

specific person. So I started just dive into marketing. And this was in the very beginning of 2017 that I, that I left network marketing and started doing this. And for the next year and a half, I didn't do. We, we went through some really tough times financially and just trying to figure out nothing was working and, you know, it was just all the failure, failure, failure to do learning and stuff. Dude, it got to the point. We were backed up on our bills, credit cards maxed out. We got four kids and our water is shut off. And I went and got a title loan on my Chrysler, Aspen, just so that I can get into this mastermind just to learn the skill of writing copy, of selecting the audience, crafting the irresistible offer, then writing the copy that communicates that offer to

that audience. People said I was crazy at the time. They called me stupid and idiot, all that stuff. But I bet it on myself. And I burned the boats and I went all in. And eight months later, I had a six-figure podcast marketing agency as a result of that decision plus the skills that I developed through podcasting. So looking back, it was an excellent decision. But everybody was hating on me about it in the beginning. What really changed the game for me was when I launched the podcast, Underdog Empowerment, before that, nobody. gave me the time of day. Anytime I tried to collaborate with anybody, nobody took me seriously. They'd say things like, oh, man, look at this joker, this clown. It's just a matter of time for

he's trying to be an entrepreneur. He'll be back in prison before we know it. You know, like, they'd say stuff like that and they didn't give me a chance. And I'm not going to lie, I use that as motivation. I was like, okay. You're like, you're counting me out, dude? Like, because, you know, I got pissed off and frustrated as that. I was like, man, I'm not going to let my past keep me in this little box that you're, you know, making these snap judgments about me on. You don't even know me. And so it was out of that pain and frustration. I was trying all these things that didn't work.

And then podcasts happened to be another thing that I tried. And I put it out and I got it ranked on Apple on day three. And then the next week I had Billy Gina's marketing on the show. And then it's just been a crazy explosion of upwards momentum ever since then back in 2018. And what's crazy about that, though, is that it continues. Like the momentum just keeps building and getting bigger. I got really quick wins right out the gate. Like,

when I started the podcast, nobody gave me a chance. I couldn't collaborate, but nobody believed in me nothing. And then I launched a podcast, got it ranked. And then a week later, we had Billy Gina's marketing on the show and they started interviewing

all these high-level people. My brand started exploding ever since. So in one week's worth of time, I was able to get some really quick wins and get that momentum going. And once I seen that, man, I was like, I'm all in.

And I just started just learning everything I could about podcasts. and going all in with building the brand ever since. I love that, man. And I think for the audience that's listening to this, I think there's some very, very important lessons. For one, you heard him say a year and a half of failure, right? A year and a half of failure to the point to where your water is being shut off. And even though you were still experiencing that failure,

you still decided to take a risk on yourself. you still decided to get a title loan and take a risk on yourself. And for the people, the naysayers and all of those people, it wasn't their decision. This was you. They don't know what's going on in between your two years. So it's very easy to judge when you're not the one that's in the environment. And so I love the fact that you use them as fuel. I've done that multiple times in my life, whether it was Ms. Green and freshman English class,

that brought the whole school after me to find me skipping class at the vending machines that told me I was getting amount to nothing. Sometimes I use her as motivation, right? But I love people that tell me I can't. And I can definitely see that fire in your eyes right now that you're the same way because it's like, all right, challenge accepted. Let's go get this, right? So you launch your show, you got nobody, nobody is willing to give you a shot. And all of a sudden, you get a name in the business that everybody knows, right? Like if you, you just have to name Billy Jean is marketing and what a brand, right? What a brilliant idea for for a brand right there. And so you get him on the show. So what happened after that episode aired? I would love to just give the audience some context of how

life altering it literally was from like week over week. Yeah, dude. I mean, we'll had him on a week after my podcast started and then now like you know for one I could literally talk for days and days and days on why just interviewing high level people like billy jean by itself all the benefits and that is we're not even talking about all the other stuff that comes with with the podcasting but for one you're getting world-class consulting from people who would otherwise be unreachable to you through a podcast like I literally I was just sitting down with fanny forcilla in the new first form headquarters this a few weeks ago and asking him very specific questions about like, hey, we're currently scaling a multi-six figure, you know, podcast marketing agency. When you were

scaling first form, what did you focus on specifically as a CEO of your company? Like I asked some questions like that. And he told me how he did it in his phases of how he scaled his company. I wouldn't have got that information from him had I not had the podcast, you know? So you're getting world-class consulting, probably even more powerful than that is the relationship that you just built with these people because who knows what that can turn into. Like I'm getting ready to help. I'm not going to say the name yet, but I'm getting ready to help a very influential person that probably a lot of people already know about start his podcast. You know what I mean? And then the fact that I'm going to be able to tie my name to that brand. And that all came of not to him

and interviews him. I mean, that right there. And then on top of that, aligning your brand with these top people, you know, your people, your, your, your marketplace is like, like, dang, George disinterviewed him. They just interviewed him. And then so it makes selling whatever you're selling a hundred times easier. Now I'm not going to say selling is easy because it takes a while to figure it out. Once you figure it out, though, then it becomes easy just like anything. Once you figure it out, then you can do it and you can perform it without even thinking, right? But it's going to make selling a hundred times easier than what it actually is if you're constantly aligning yourself with these powerful people, the people that you're selling to that you have relationships

with real powerful people. I can keep going. So it just started putting me on the on the, on the that way. And then all these opportunities are coming at me. People asking me to come speak and all this stuff. And kind of what happened was this April 2018 when I launched a podcast, broke through the brand. And I started making a little bit of money. I'm making anywhere from like $200 to $800 a month through affiliate marketing through my podcast, which is cool. But I wasn't killing it yet. And I still was like trying to solve like how can I actually make money online as an entrepreneur and provide for my family and then also do all the other cool stuff that I want to do. And how that came about was through a lot of pure hustle and dumb luck, all right? The pure hustle was, you know, it's just stuff that I've always

done. Like, hey, I'm not going to quit. I'll go through as much failure as I need to. I'll bet on myself like I did. So I bet on myself with the title loan and to learn that skill of crafting offers and writing copy. But that didn't wave a magical wand just by investing in that and get money. It took eight months after that decision to actually break through, right? So I did that and learn that skill and then the dumb luck part played in and the dumb luck parts is by showing up but i got invited to speak at this event out in san diego and i went out there and i spoke and it was cool it was awesome told my story and stuff but the guy came up and this is a small mastermind event there's about 20 people there give or take and he came up and he's like it was marshall gillen his guy's name

and he's like hey man can you come up tomorrow and talk just about podcasts i'm like yeah sure no problem i didn't think nothing of it you know when you're in the bottle you can't read the label on the outside, you know, I'm doing this. So I didn't think like it was nothing super special. So anyways, I get up there. I start talking about how to launch your podcast, how to get it ranked, how to grow your downloads, how to interview cool people and how to generate some money through affiliate income through your podcast. And people's eyes are lighting up and they're asking me all these questions and stuff. And like, they're like, you know, getting into it. I'm like, I'm like, man, I might have something here. And so I took the skill that I developed from joining that

mastermind, use that skill to package up this offer. And I took my, skill set from doing my own podcast and packaged it up into an offer and then I put it out there and March to 2019 and generated 11k that month. And at that time, I had never seen that amount of money in my life all at once. And it was crazy. And we've just been doing it ever since and been growing the agency and just going deep in the whole podcasting space ever since then. I love that, man. And so cool and how things can shift in an instant, right? And you said a lot of really, really cool stuff there. I think anytime, like you said, when you align your brand with other people that already have brands, you get to tap into a different audience that you never would have

had access to. Not to mention having, being able to rap with somebody and hang out with them and pick their brain, right? During an interview, that's worth its weight in gold. Amen. I've had my show. Now, today is the nine month anniversary. And I tell you, I've earned a PhD from all these amazing people all over the world that have been, you know, gracious enough to spend time with me and to hang. You know, so I completely relate on that. And it's so great when you can really build not just relationships, but real relationships with people. Now you're texting with them. Now you're helping each other out, right? You're adding value back to each other. And that's the one thing I've really noticed about the podcast community. Once you're involved with it and you're building the right strategic relationships,

the sky really is the limit. And you really are a testament of that of how you've been able to scale your brand. But I really love what you did because it was a very strategic move. You go to this mastermind, right? You speak. You get invited for the next day. And when you said it was dumb luck, brother, it was not dumb luck. This was action, man.

This was you showing up, being consistent and taking action. Because if you're not consistent, you never would create the momentum. Yeah, you never would have. created the momentum that got you the invite. So don't down or short count yourself by saying it was dumb luck because it wasn't. Right. You know what I'm saying? It was not.

This was your effort and it just happened. It happened. Your effort created the opportunity. Okay. But what I love what you said is that you saw the eyeballs light up and then you using the skill sets from the mastermind, the copy and the offers, you built something before it even existed. And then you started to sell it, right?

But I love that. And I've actually used the same strategies to build out consulting packages because listen, sometimes if you have the information in your head and you know you can execute, you don't need the pretty documents yet. You can figure all that out later, right? You know what I'm saying? But if you can back up and provide the value, then why not make an offer? Right.

Why not take that to the next level? Because if people, again, I said it earlier, but people are investing in you, right? They're listening to your story. They're listening to your expertise. And if that all matches up, boom, that's how you were able to launch that offer. Amen. That's awesome, man. So let's talk a little bit about current state.

It's been really, really cool, you know, hearing your story and journey. And I think for anyone that's listed in this episode, if you're not inspired, right, I mean, here's a guy that, listen, everybody, like you said, was a knucklehead when you're a kid. He just happened to get caught a couple of these times. There's plenty of us that have probably done. things and we just got lucky. We didn't get caught, right? So you had these things happen to you. You did make some decisions that led you back there. But all in all, you've learned and you've grown and you've become a stronger person, a better father, I'm sure a better husband. Like,

you've really grown out of these things. So I would love for you to share with the audience, because there's going to be people that listen to say, man, I want to start my own show. Like, where do I start with this? So first, let's give them some value. Let's give your top three tips to launching a show. And then if you've got anything, any resources, I'd be happy to include them in the show notes. If you've got an offer, anything you want for the audience, I'd love for you to share that as well. Yeah, dude, for sure. I'm going to give you some guys some really good tips on the podcast aspect of it. And so let's skip the whole how do you launch thing? Because you can literally Google that and you'll find resources out there. Like, that's what I did

to start my own podcast. And I filed a good tutorial on YouTube. And it shows. me all the things I need to do technically to do that because I'm not a technician, dude. I don't know what the best microphones are and how to make it sound a grade, but I got people on my team that know that. I just know how to market it. I know how to get eyeballs on it. I know how to grow it. And I know how to get people excited about your show and how to make money from your podcast. And for that, I got a complete free resource that'll show you how to literally by not having a clue about even what you want your show to be about all the way to having it up and launched on Apple and all the other platforms.

I got a roadmap for that, for that specifically. And it's a free PDF guide that has videos in the PDF little links and stuff that shows you. So let's skip all that. Let's say you got your show up and running, though. Let's talk about how to actually get some traction with it. So one, follow the same roadmap that I did. I first thing I did was I got my podcast ranked.

Now, here's the deal. I have a podcast marketing system that's consistent of five key pillars. And each one of those pillars have different tactics in all. in those to make that pillar work. Here's the thing. Getting ranked, anybody can get ranked on Apple. It is not hard to do. It's very simple to do, and it requires some hustle, but it's very simple to do.

But here's a deal. Most podcast consultants can only get you ranked for a short period of time. Then you fall out the ranking system, whatever. And that's what you're going to do in the beginning. What if I'm about to share with you, you're going to get ranked. You're going to be able to use that as momentum to get people excited about your show and to start inviting heavy hitters like I did with Billy Jean. And I said, hey, Billy, I just launched my podcast a couple days ago.

I'm a top 200 rated podcast. We're taking this to the moon. You'd be a perfect fit for my show. Can we get you to come on? It just sounds better when you say I have a top rated podcast versus this regular one. Now, if you implement the system over time, all these simple things that aren't easy, but they're simple. They require effort and you consistently do that.

Then you stay in the ranking. So let's just break it down real quick. Just like with Amazon, how you got all these people. better. I'm an Amazon bestselling book author. Well, all you did was make your book a dollar for people to get it. And then you got people to get it. You picked a niche category and then everybody got and you had them write a review and then you get ranked on Apple and you became a bestseller. Same concept here for Apple. You get a bunch of written reviews in a short period of time. You will get ranked on Apple. And then you're going to slip out though unless you have the

stain power. And these are the four metrics of the stain power that I'm talking about. And it's in this order. One is written reviews. All right. Two is ratings. Three is subscribers. Four is downloads in that order. And those are only metrics at Apple. And I don't know if this is true or not. This is my speculation off of based off of working with over 100 people now with 100% success rate of getting people ranked on Apple. But that's only, because I don't make up the algorithm, right? And I don't work at Apple. But those are the only metrics that I could decide. How else can Apple decide whether they should rank here or not? Those are the only way to really quantify if people are listening to your show or not. And if they like or. if they're responding well to it. And so what we figured out is that if you get a bunch of written reviews in a short period of time, you'll jump in the rankings. But you won't stay there because you don't have enough downloads to stay there because you might be in the same category as John Lee Dumas, who gets a million plus downloads per

month, right? And so he's got more staying power in you. So if you implement the system, which shows you how to grow your downloads and how to interview the celebrities and monetize it. And you have all these things working together for you. Your downloads will grow. And then you'll have a podcast like mine or many of our clients that's, day in the top 200.

So the key here, though, is what we want to do is we just want to get ranked in the beginning to use that and leverage it, use that momentum. We create the momentum and we leverage it. We know that we're going to slip out, but then we're going to build back up and stay there over time. But we're going to use it to start getting heavy hitters on the show and be able to get our audience excited about it. So how you do that, you get a bunch of written reviews.

And what I mean, dude, is don't be lazy about this. Look, you can create a post and be like, hey, guys, I've got a podcast. Go leave me a review and stuff. And you might get one or two people that go and actually leave your review by creating a post on social media. It's not going to work, though, dude, because let's face it, people come to social media to socialize. They don't come to leave you a written review for one and for two. It's a general post that you're making and asking a bunch of people. It's nothing personal about it.

So if you want to actually do it the right way and actually get reviews, it's going to take sweat equity and time. And how you do it, I got a script that I'm going to lay out. Is it cool? I'm starting to talk a lot. Is it cool if I run through this real quick? Yeah, now this is a good value. Absolutely. Right on, right on. All right. This right here, what I'm about to share with you, dude, this is over 100 people that we, clients that we've helped with this and we have 100% success rate with this exact script. I will say this. It's not perfected because if I say if anything's perfected, that means it can't get any, it can't get better. But it is definitely optimized because I did this to myself when I first

learned that it worked when I first started podcasting and shout out this. message over 4,000 times, no exaggeration across all my social media. And it evolved to what it is now. So it works. It's really well. And it's proven not just work with me, but over 100 people now. So what you want to do is you want to hit up people that you follow or that follow you on Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram, whatever. And they're connected with. And you want to communicate with them the same way that you would offline. Because that's the main problem is people try to communicate with people online in some weird way. And they skip all these. steps that you would have in a conversation. And I learned this through network marketing, how not to

skip these steps and what you don't want to do because I used to do this, where I would copy and paste this generic message with a link and just send it out to people and be lazy. Like Jordan, if me and you went to the same high school and we didn't really know each other, but we knew of each other and we were at a party at high school or whatnot, and I just ran up to you. I'm like, Jordan, yo, I got this podcast, check it out. Let me read and review. Here's a link. Boom. If I just ran up to you and did that and didn't have an actual conversation and a dialogue with you, you'd probably want to punch me right in the face or something. You know what I mean? Because definitely like, where did you come from? Right. Like, dude, chill out, dude. Like, what's going on? You know, you want to talk, man. And so just keep

that in mind. That's the principle is you want to communicate with people online the same way you would offline. If you want to shove a link down somebody's throat in real life, don't do it in a message online. And so here's the script. You can modify it if you want. I wouldn't. I'd just keep it exactly the way it is because it works, but you say, hey, person name, I have a huge favor to ask. Or for me, specifically, if it's a guy that I'm reaching out to, because it's just how I talk, I'm like, hey, man, I got a huge favor to ask. And if it's a girl that I'm reaching out to, I'd be like, hey, Susan, I have a huge favorite ask. And that's it. And I wait for them. I'm giving them the opportunity to either ignore me or say no. But what's going to happen here is people are curious. You just open

some loops. They're like, what's the favor? I don't want to know. And so people are going to most likely to say, yeah, sure, what's up? Or shoot, you might get some people that are kind of funny and they'll say, oh, what do you want now? Or something, you know what I mean? Joking around. Regardless, so most people are going to say what. And then when I ask what's the favor, then you say, can you subscribe to my podcast and leave

me a five-star written review if I send you a link? I would say exactly that. The reason why, there's three parts of that. One, can you subscribe to my podcast? If they subscribe, that automatically starts downloading your episode. So now you're covering both metrics there. And you say a five-star written review, technically, you would say is write me a review and they have to leave a rating, but you want to say five star

because I had a client that asked for someone to leave me a review and the person wrote a really awesome review, but it gave them a one star because they thought it was better than five. So you just want to clarify that and let them know that you're looking for a five. And then finally, the third part, if I send in the link, again, we're being respectful. We give them two opportunities now to either ignore us or say no. And so now you're just having a dialogue with them. And so there's going to be a few responses. I know the ones that you're going to get, we can run through each one, but 90% of the time, people are going to say, yeah, sure, no problem, sending it over, something like that. They're going to say yes. And so in that case, and we can go through the other responses here in a minute. I just want

to finish this script. But in that case, when they're like, yeah, sure, no problem. Then you say, I would say this exactly. I wouldn't change a word. I would say, thank you. I appreciate you taking your time to do this and drop your link. All in the same message. Those who, thank you. I appreciate you taking time to do this. Drop your link. to your apple. What's the reason why that works so well. Hey, Jordan, have you ever read the book influenced by Robert Chaldeenie? Have not. No worries. Great book. Well, in that book, it's human persuasion principles, human behavior principles of persuasion of why we do things the way we do. And one of the principles in there is our need to stay consistent with what we commit to publicly.

Like, most of us are good human beings. If we say we're going to do something, we want to do it. because we're good human beings. You do have, you know, some people that don't care and they don't have any integrity or any of that. But, you know, that's a different story. But most people do. Most people are good. And so he gave this whole story in there about this American prisoner war that was in Vietnam. And what they did is they didn't torture them, but they got them to make small little micro commitments that supported the communism government over the American government. And they'd read it out and the speakers for the rest of the POWs to hear it. And then every day they'd believe in the communism government over the American government. Crazy stuff. We're not doing nothing crazy like that.

but we are going to use that principle to our favor here when they say, yeah, sure, no problem, send it over. We're saying, thank you. I appreciate you taking your time to do this. What's going on their head? They're saying, yes, I did just say that I was going to do this. And then they see your Apple link is the last thing. Last thing to see, oh, I'm going to go do that now.

And they click on it and they go leave your review. That's the process right there. There's a few other different responses that you'll get that we can go over if you want to. But that right there, if you just do that and you get out, you actually hustle. you don't just hit up five people and call it it. It's like you set aside some time and you go through some people and hit up that script and hustle and put an effort and work into it. You will get ranked.

Like I said, over 100 clients with 100% success rate. And I'd say around 70 to 80% of them have all done it within 48 hours or less. The current record Mandy Podlensi with the More with Mandy podcast, you can go check it out. She holds a record for our clients specifically. six hours after she launched her podcast. She was ranked on Apple doing that exact thing right there. I love that, man. And what value to add. And really, what you're talking about here, Zachary, is being yourself, right? It's having a conversation with another human. And I think you hit it on the head earlier when you said there are too many people that have this copy and paste strategy for getting in people's DMs. Because you can tell. You can completely tell that you're either a bot or you're something. somebody that just literally copied and pasted. There's no personalization to it.

And there's no conversation. Right? Conversation is when two people are speaking. You're not when you're just trying to throw up whatever your, your agenda is on somebody. You know, I think it's very important. And that strategy, like, just as you were going through it, I'm like, yep, I can see exactly why that would work. Right?

I can see exactly why it would work. Because like you said before, as humans, if we're making that commitment, if we're, if we're committing to something and we don't do it, especially if this is someone that we already know, we already know them, right? So there's already a relationship here. So I think for people that are listening, this is actually easier than cold calling, you know, because you're, you're actually dealing with your warm network as it is. So this is really just about like being intentional about it and doing it, doing it in a nice way because someone's actually, there really is doing your favor. Right. They're, they really.

are helping you out. Amen. Awesome, man. That was definitely a ton of value. And so, I would love for you to share, you know, for the people that are listening, we're the best places to connect with you. I know you're active on, on social media, on Instagram and on LinkedIn. Love the content that you put out. So are those good places for people to reach out? Or is there a website you want people to connect with you at as well? Yeah, dude. I'll make it real simple. Definitely the podcast is what I'm most passionate about underdog empowerment. but if you want to connect with me on any other platform or you want to check out the podcast, it's on pretty much the platform that you listen to podcasts on,

but to make it super simple for everybody, you can go to underdogempowerment.com and right there on that website, you might just scroll down a little bit for the podcast section. There's a little subscribe button, but there's also all the other social media channels like wherever you do want to connect. So it's all on underdogenpowerment.com. And if you're looking for podcasting help specifically, you can go to alpha podcasting.

and set up a call and we'll see what your goals are and how we can help. We have courses, we have coaching, and we have done for you agency services. So, I mean, we can help you whichever way you're looking forward to whatever makes the most sense for you and what you're trying to accomplish with your podcast. So yeah, underdog Empowerment.com to connect and just jam with me on any social media podcasts. And if you want to start your own podcast, alphapodcasting.com. Awesome, man. Well, Zachary, I appreciate you coming on the show. You dropped a lot of knowledge today.

of value. And I think a lot of people are going to get something out of your story and journey because, you know, there's people that that have never been to jail, you know, that have never experienced that. And for you to go through it on a couple different times and then really change the trajectory of your life because you decided to, right, because you made that decision. Brother, I think that's super inspiring for people to hear. And I really appreciate you sharing how you have blazed your own trail, my friend. Dude, Jordan, I appreciate you. let me come on Blaze Your Own Trail podcast. I had a lot of fun today.

And thank you again, man. Thank you, brother.