Blaze Your Own Trail - The Power of Counseling & Coaching with Jahmaal Marshall

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Blaze Your Own Trail podcast. My name is Jordan Mendoza. I'm your host, and I've got a very special guest today. I know I say that a lot, but this is a guy who's a friend, he's a client, he's a brother in Christ, just an all-around good guy. So welcome, Jamal Marshall to the show. Thanks for having me, Jordan Mendoza. Yes, sir, yes, sir. And I'd love for you just to give a quick 60-second bio of who you are and what you do today.

Starting point is 00:00:30 And then we're going to get into my favorite part of the show. You got it. So hey, everybody. I'm Jamal Marshall, as you've already heard. I'm the CEO and founder of Listen and Speak LLC, host of podcast, Listen to Speak. And I tackle burnout at the root with proven methods to two extra time and maximize your productivity. I'm a certified counselor and executive coach working primarily with VP, senior leaders,

Starting point is 00:00:51 and mid-level managers, and also small businesses. And what I do is the unique modality. Instead of working on behavior, we work on the, belief that informs a behavior that actually gets your sustainable results. So that's me. Love it. Love it. Appreciate you sharing. And my favorite part of the show, as everyone knows, is taking a rewind. We want to get some context into Little Jamal. Where were you born and raised? What kind of kid were you? What did you get into? And we're going to really dive into the adolescent years, elementary middle, to high school year. So feel free to share.

Starting point is 00:01:23 Oh boy, getting right into us. We've wasted no time. So Little Jamal was actually born in 1984. So 80s babies here. Year of the Transformers. That was the year the actual cartoon came out. And I was born in L.A. So that's where I'm from. And Jamal just really, I'm the youngest of four, but it's one right above me that's three years of age. My sister Jasmine, we're pretty close in age. And yeah, I was just a young man who I was told by my mom that I was pretty gregarious. And other little kids were scared to me, which is strange because I'm an impact. I'm like, well, The stuff that she and my sister told me, I was like, I can't even imagine that because I'm like,

Starting point is 00:02:01 I'm the type of person that will drive by and pick up a caterpillar. So a car does that run over us. I'm like, I was doing all that as a little boy. And we moved to D.C. in 89. My dad worked in roofing and construction. And then the union out there shut down. So my parents were originally from D.C. So we came back to D.C.

Starting point is 00:02:23 And life changed a bit when we got back here. because being in California as a little boy, for me, it was just like I had a regular life as a little kid. Got up Saturday morning, watched cartoons, played outside of the kids, went to school, saw my family a lot, half my family's out there. And then we got to D.C., we moved in first with my grandfather before we found our own place in Southeast D.C. And I started to notice that my dad was different. I did not know what alcohol was. I didn't know what drugs was. I mean, I was five and a half, six years old. So I started to see that there was a disconnect between the two of us because D.C. has a very high drug and alcohol culture.

Starting point is 00:03:05 So to California. But the older I was getting, it was evident to me that he had a first love, at least it seemed that way. And it wasn't his wife and children. And I did not exactly know how to suss it out. So more and more, little Jamal was closer to mom and my granddad and my sister. but dad started to be a stranger to me. And it was around that time, as I got a little bit older, we had moved out and got our own place

Starting point is 00:03:30 that there was even more of a disconnect. I started to realize that my dad was an alcoholic and he was a drug addict. I did not know what heroin and crack was. All I know is that my mom has set up a separate bank account for my sister and I both putting $1,000 in there. Both of my parents had done that. And dad had took the $1,000 from out of my account

Starting point is 00:03:49 and my sister's account and used it for crack cocaine. I was just like, I didn't know because all my needs were taken care of, so it didn't really affect me so much. But I was just like, oh, well, why did that happen? And obviously, you know, my parents are from the generation where, you know, I think we both come from that generation where parents discipline their children. But there was times when I was disciplined and it wasn't in love. And so physically, if I was acting out, if he came after me, it was very unpredictable, especially if he was higher if he was drunk. And so I learned early on, how he was.

Starting point is 00:04:21 to make everything perfect. I learned to not kick up the dust to not trouble the waters because home was so chaotic and so out of control, I could control everything out of there. I had a very winsome personality, straight-A student. I mean, I was a model student and everything I'd done. My mom was, I call her the fourth member of the Trinity. She's the type that would take notes at parent-teacher conferences and by and large, she always got back a good report on me. And it was one thing, a common theme, all the way from little child to high school, Jamal's not a follower. So I didn't realize it until I got much older, but there was always a running theme for me to be a natural one leader. I was just not one to follow the crowd.

Starting point is 00:04:59 Man, I appreciate you sharing that. And, you know, that's, it's tough, right, when you have somebody that is either dealing with alcoholism or dealing with drugs, you know, I had a stepdad who was an alcoholic, all of basically from birth to about 12 years old when my mom finally left him, finally decided to make that move, but it's hard, you know, when people are stuck with people that they love, they care about. And, you know, I remember he was not abusive to me, but he cut my mom's head open with a beer can one time. He threw it. And it was in and out of jail, wrecking all the cars. I mean, doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And, and I had to really stick up for my mom one time and have a very tough conversation at a young age, and he never touched her again. And I'm

Starting point is 00:05:40 proud to say that he's now been sober for 30 years. So there is reconciliation, you know, for people that are listening to this and saying, man, that sounds like a tough story and a tough situation. And Jamal's dad, it sounds very hard. But there is reconciliation to folks. There there is ability to forgive people and to move forward and to realize that everyone's human. And we all make mistakes. We're all faced with tough choices and we all do things that we probably would not have liked to do if we were in a better mindset. And so I just want to make sure that I share at that point. And so it sounds like mom is your rock, right? She's kind of that go-to person. And you know me and my mom's relationship before she passed. Like I was big mama's boy.

Starting point is 00:06:25 I talked to her two or three times a day. And when she passed and I didn't hear her voice anymore, man, there was a big void there. And so I know that your relationship wasn't the best with your dad early on. Was there a time when that shifted? I'd love to really find out. Oh man, that is a perfect segue. And yes, I want to affirm. Like, mom has been the matriarch, the rock, the foundation. I got my spiritual foundation from her. Oddly enough, the social skills come from dad.

Starting point is 00:06:56 And with dad, I grew up more and more. Like, outwardly, I loved him because that's my dad. But inwardly, I resented him and I hated him because I saw just the turnout of like, my two oldest siblings, they really kind of, to me and my mind is how they had it together. It's just two phenomenal women that just they could do no wrong. And especially my oldest sister, I just felt like, man, she's like, I will nickname her Athena. She's just so wise. And I'm just like, how does she do it? And I haven't not had dad and just such a survivor and just top earner and just someone who just really build a crazy

Starting point is 00:07:29 foundation. And so the more and more I was in this hatred for my dad, I realized that I started having a lot of anxiety. And I know you and I both work with a lot of high performance. my high performance was a trauma response that actually worked into my modality of which I do now. But all of that excellence, all of the straight A's, all of the Dean's List, all of the first chair and band, I mean, you name anything, I aced it. It was all the trauma response because I did not feel loved. And so if I wasn't loved at home on home front by who I feel like is the father figure, I got to get somewhere. Yeah. And so I dotted every eye.

Starting point is 00:08:06 I crossed every tea. I never troubled the waters. I never said no. And then I started being resentful of the people that I would say yes to, but this was a narrative that I created. So with dad, I realized that I also started having my own, I was never really into drugs and alcohol, but I did find soothing, a lot of soothing and prescription drugs and just different addictions that would plague my mind that would numb the pain of just this broken father-son relationship. So no matter how much excellence I had externally, I was very broken internally. I crushed everything and aced everything. Even when I got to the government, outstanding when every performance appraisal, but inside I was being crushed. And I remember I started going to this counseling, and it was kind of about healing memories.

Starting point is 00:08:51 And I'm not saying that's bad because I worked through some of those modalities, but I found myself just blaming my dad instead of taking ownership for some of the stuff that I had done. And in 2006, I remember he came in one day and he was so, he was just drunk. His eyes were bloodshot red. and I remember he fell on the floor in the hallway, like just on his back. And I remember just slumping down. And I sat there with him. And we sat there all night. And I said, I talked to me.

Starting point is 00:09:18 I was about 23, maybe at the time, 23, 22. And I remember him just spilling his guts about his childhood. And I learned about my paternal grandfather, how he told him that to his face that he paid my grandmother to abort him. But she wouldn't do it. He never heard the words, I love you from him or my paternal grandmother. She had a lot of children. And so he was one of the oldest. And so he was kind of forced to raise them all.

Starting point is 00:09:44 And he says, man, I always loved you and your sisters. I just didn't know how to show it because it wasn't shown to me. And it wasn't like he was saying that to get me to feel sorry for him. But it endeared me to him. And I saw him. You had context, right? Yeah, I had context. He didn't have before.

Starting point is 00:09:58 And that's everything. Yeah. And he became, instead of this father, figure that I was looking to be my superhero because as a little boy, I thought, like, no one's stronger than my dad. No one is better than my dad. He became human to me. And when he became human, I remember just sitting down there talking to him and said, hey, can you come to church with us tomorrow? Because my dad was like, he was like, dude, like from the streets. He was like, I don't know, man. I said, Dad, just please. Just tomorrow. He said, all right, I'll do it for you. And I remember

Starting point is 00:10:26 that Sunday. I was hoping that the pastor would preach like the best sermon he ever preached. Yeah. And after service, he actually went up and actually, decided to talk to my pastor for himself. And that Sunday, he gave his life to Christ. I never thought in a million years that James Robert Marshall would ever be a man of faith. I mean, he just wasn't that dude. Yeah. Was not that person. And of course, I'm automatically expecting perfection. You know, right off the back, he still smoked cigarettes. He still would have alcohol here and there. But as time went on, I noticed him changing. He gave up alcohol. When we would go to a family, If there was alcohol there, he would request to leave early because his siblings drank.

Starting point is 00:11:09 He started giving up smoking. He just started slowly changing. But inwardly, I still had some scar tissue. Sure. And so I knew I needed to go away, you know, to counseling. And we were getting really close. And my job with the government, I was working on a co-op and something skewed my paperwork in HR. It was weird. And so they could not keep me. I literally had worked myself to the highest grade. And so they had a big going away part for me. I mean, even the director of the whole United States Bureau of Prisons came to my going away. They said, that's pretty huge. And I didn't have a job anymore.

Starting point is 00:11:42 And of course, you know, I graduated. I've gotten my VA science and psychology and counseling. And as a man, you know, you identify with what you do. But I knew I was still broken inside. And I said, Jamal, if you're going to help people, because it became evident to me at this point that I was supposed to help people, that I was supposed to be counselor, a coach, at least someone who, affected change and impact in the lives of people. I said, there's still a lot of help you need. You're still very broken. And so I found out about some counseling in the Midwest that actually was inpatient, in person. And I said, who does that? It's like, well, you don't have a job right now.

Starting point is 00:12:18 You're done with college. So go. And I invested thousands of dollars. And seven months, which turned into 13 months and really going through a process of not only just forgiving, but also releasing my father and connecting with him and really connecting with what I believed. I knew all the right things about the right things, but it was time now to put the seat to the pavement. And my counsel would confront me on the root causes and the things that were going on inside of me. And I remember coming back in July of 2010, and it was my last day before going back to the Midwest because they said, can you come back and do an internship? And the first thing I'm on my own doing, I'm not going to lie, because this is like Midwest Kentucky. I was like,

Starting point is 00:13:02 I know black people around here. I don't know, bro. I don't know if all this too tough. And it was weird because I was from California. We lived in D.C. I went to church in northern Virginia. I was used to being in a melting pot, but I wasn't used to just being one one.

Starting point is 00:13:15 But I had to surrender that to God and just said, all right, I'll do it. And the day before I went back, I remember me and my dad went out to eat for his birthday. And then I said, hey, can we go up to PG? This is PG Community College. And we walked around the track. And I just told him, because I still had some fear of him.

Starting point is 00:13:32 unhealthy fear. I told him all the stuff that I was doing that was just like that I was embarrassed to tell him. I told him about my addictions. I told him about times when I was going to hotel. He was like, I knew you were cutting up. I knew you're a red blooded American male. I just told him about just about all these things about me that I was so ashamed of because he was so unpredictable when I was growing up and he just loved me in that moment. And I remember it was so, it was so strange. I said, hey, can I take a picture of you? And I took this picture of him. And I still have it. And man who was my worst enemy became my best friend.

Starting point is 00:14:07 That's amazing. And that's the reconciliation I mentioned earlier, folks, right? You don't know the timing. You know, we don't even know if it's possible, right? In our minds, it's like there's no way that this can be mended. I didn't meet my biological dad until I was 12. And he happened to live in Northwest D.C. And so I flew out in 1992 by myself from Portland and got off the plane.

Starting point is 00:14:32 and there was a bunch of Asian people. And this was my dad and my stepmom and my brothers. And I quickly figured out that this man was a hard worker. He had built this landscaping business. And he told me the story of how he left the Philippines to get a piece of the American dream. And he started working for a company. And again, when we get context, folks, when we get context into the why, you know, why did these folks, my dad, why did his dad, why did they make the decisions that they made? And it's so powerful what can be unlocked when that happens.

Starting point is 00:15:04 Because like you said earlier, Jamal, it made him human. And now that he was human, right, you guys were basically the same. And he wasn't here. He wasn't here. He was basically equal as humans. Now you could actually start the healing process and you could start the reconciliation process. So I'm very happy that you were able to do that. And talk a little bit about you made the decision to go to this internship before you left.

Starting point is 00:15:30 You had this amazing time with your dad and you spilled, spilled the beans on stuff. So what was it like going to that internship? And how much value would it say it's played into who you are today and everything you're doing to help people? Oh, man. The internship was so tough. It was really, really tough because it was one, they kind of knew when they asked me to do the internship. He's going to be one of our counselors, but it kind of put me through the ringer. So I interned at a place called a School Street.

Starting point is 00:16:02 It was like I was in administrative, so I was in customer service, and I did website quality control. Boring. Oh, my goodness. It was like every day on the clock, it was like watching paint dry. And I remember on my lunch breaks, just taking my iPod to go out to like this little field. It was just like this is whack, this staff is whack, these people are whack. I had fun on the phones as a customer service rep, but like other than that, it was like one of the loneliest seasons of my life. Then they start sending me to like training for counseling.

Starting point is 00:16:33 So I love like being away. But through that, God was testing something in me to extract just different parts of my nature. Like whatever you're raised up to do, you don't just step into doing it. You know the story of David. I can even talk about secular people. Whoever stories in and outside of the Bible, like I can tell you, Mike Jordan, Tom Brady, Serena Williams. They didn't become that overnight. They had to put in a lot of reps and do a lot of things that they did not want to do.

Starting point is 00:16:57 And a lot of it was stuff that I didn't want to do. They put me on, it was funny thing is they put me on prison correspondence. And so I come from the federal bureau prison. So I had some experience there. So I was like, I could start to see the thread of God's hand. Then they started sending me into the prison to do classes to teach. And which wasn't scary at all. A prison is just like a little city.

Starting point is 00:17:15 It's just everything's kind of gated up. And people all wear the same color. And that was exciting. But they could kind of see that I was out of my niche. But it was like, are you going to be faithful with the little things? And the more and more they start sending me to training for it, to get. get me certified in counseling and then we would do clinical training and everything like that to find out about psychotropic meds and how that works and just what our routines are it it was like

Starting point is 00:17:38 okay this is what I'm supposed to do and around October of 2013 that's when they just I remember I was going to leave and I was just like because I was like I've been doing this since 2010 it's like two and a half years I'm bored out of my mind and I think it's time for me to go I don't I felt like I have very little in common with the staff here. I had some friends in town. My family was in Cincinnati, but I was like, this is absolutely whack. And I remember calling my dad and said, Dad, I think about coming home. And he's so, he's very practical.

Starting point is 00:18:09 Like, he's not Mr. Scripture every five minutes. He was like, why do you want to do that? And it just made me think for a second, like, why do I want to come home? And it's because I wasn't getting my way and things weren't going the way I wanted to go. Welcome to manhood. Welcome to leadership. Welcome to actual life where you actually have something of authority.

Starting point is 00:18:29 to pour another people. And so I went away to this cabin for four and a half days. And I fasted. And I remember I called my parents and talking to my mom. Obviously, he's a very godly woman. And I talked to my dad and he said, I just want to let you know me and your mom are praying for you. I never heard those words growing up from my dad. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:48 So that, it lit a fire in me. And I remember when I got there, I fasted and prayed and I was committed. I told the president of the organization I was working and I said, no matter what, if I stay in this position forever, I'm committed to it. I'm going to be the best customer service rep and best prison correspondent, this guy and best website quality control person that this place has ever seen. The moment I laid that down and surrendered that, it was like two days later, they say, yo, you need to be over in the counseling department.

Starting point is 00:19:17 And it was weird, like two people had also, like, quit. And so instead of going as you go in as a counseling assistant first, kind of learning the I said, no, we need you to go in, like, we need you to start taking like some guys. And so it was just crazy how stuff started like happening really fast. The moment I laid that thing down and surrendered what I thought was just so impossible, the floodgates just became open quickly. That's great. That's awesome.

Starting point is 00:19:44 And so how long did you stay there? And then what was your next move? Because I know you eventually made it back home, but I'd love to know the timeline on that. So I stayed there and did counseling, like specifically taking like clients for about four and a half, nearly five years. And then, and I also did public speaking there. I was able to travel to London, travel different places across the states, sharing my story, also went out on exhibitors to promote. And so I love the externally facing things, but also love the counseling, being able to deal with different types. Because first I had a bunch of young guys who were like in their 20s and early 30s.

Starting point is 00:20:22 then I started getting people who were twice my age, people who were married, people who had been in jail, people who were high performers, people just from so many different backgrounds. And so at first, I was like, this is too much for me to handle. I didn't start to see that God was actually using all those things to train me to learn how to deal. They always talk about your niche and your ideal client, but if you just deal with one type of person, that's all you know. It's giving me such a ride, ride repertoire of how to learn how to shift and how to nuance my counseling and my practice to get the person in front of me the results that they need. Also how to defer to God in prayer. Like, okay, God, I don't know what to do with this person, but you do. And so it was around this time,

Starting point is 00:21:02 I've been praying around June of 2016 that I felt like I wanted something new. I was, you know, I was within the bubble and the niche of what I was really good at. I was doing teaching. I was traveling. I was counseling. So I was kind of in my zone, but I also felt like I couldn't have a creative outlet that I was designed for. And I start praying like, God, I think it's time to go back home or time to go somewhere else. And that's when I met a guy by the name of Justin Rule. He came to a conference and we met in the doorway. I was greeting. And he ran an independent website out of Columbia, Pennsylvania called Launch Kids. And he was like, we should start talking. like, well, why don't you come on as, you know, my admin person?

Starting point is 00:21:46 And then we can also do, because I know, already know what you do here. We can kind of do some mentoring stuff on the side. And I was like, that would be a good segue out of here. Fast forward to January 2017. My dad has a major stroke. Wow. Major, major stroke that really start to break him down. And I had a client.

Starting point is 00:22:05 One of my client's dad was a pilot. And he had, he would just, he took a liking to me. you know, once his son had graduated, and he said, if ever you need to fly home, you just let me know. So he would just give me a bunch of standby tickets, and I would just fly back and forth. And I felt like I was living out here in D.C. and also going back to the Midwest. And that's when I knew it's time to go. So I approached my leader, the director of counseling. I was one of three senior counselors.

Starting point is 00:22:31 And I said, yeah, I think it's time for me to go. And he said, man, we hate to lose you, but I want to give you my blessing. And so I stayed there because I was also one of the intake coordinators. and I was also running a whole remote program with other counselors that were contracting. And he said, okay, train them. You know, we put together a whole DVD series. I trained another intake coordinator, and I slowly weaned my case load off. And I came back in September of 2018.

Starting point is 00:22:59 Slowly, Dad was starting to get better. He was taking speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy. But three days after I got back, he got critically ill on the 21st of September. And we lived in a hospital. for two and a half months. And I'd never seen my father just wither to like a nothingness. Let me tell you, Jordan, that was one of the darkest seasons of my life. Just every day, it just it became evident to me around November a little bit before Thanksgiving. They said, my dad is dying. And it hurt because it's like for eight years in my life, I've been away

Starting point is 00:23:34 from 24 to 32, like some of the best years of a young man's life. laying my life down for other people. There's men, women, and families that have been affected by my life. And it was like, now this is supposed to be the good season where I can, you know, be living in PA and I can come and see my parents and set up, you know, set up my life and focus on me now. And being in the hospital and watching my father suffer, I was just like, God, why are you allowing this to happen? And December 5th, he passed away. I was at the hospital when it happened. I remember coming into him and seeing him look so peaceful because he didn't. he asked not to be resuscitated. And I put my hand on his head.

Starting point is 00:24:13 I read the hymn, Abide with me. I read a song, kissed him on his forehead, and I said, until we meet again. And I stayed there with him until, you know, I had to call my mom and sister and my family until the family got there. And the hospital was gracious enough to let us stay there with him for about an hour or so. Before having to take his body to prepare it. And it was such a peaceful.

Starting point is 00:24:34 The spirit in the room was just so peaceful. He even looked different after he passed. It was like God's way of telling me he's with me. And so for three weeks, we had his funeral. His funeral was amazing. But around January, 2018, that's when I hit darkness. I hated God. I hated Jesus.

Starting point is 00:24:50 I hated the gospel. I hated everything about the faith. I'm sorry if this is offensive to anyone hearing, but I just, I hated it. And I went to websites, but I didn't really go into the whole correspondent with people, but I was like, okay, I'm ready to be an atheist. And it was like middle fingers up to the church, middle fingers up to God, middle fingers up to Jesus. I don't have time for this. I spent my whole life for this, and this is some bull.

Starting point is 00:25:12 You know what. So for someone who had lived a life very externally facing and impactful, I just stayed in my room, riding away, watching YouTube, eating excessively. I gained 30 pounds. It was just a pretty, I was existing. I wasn't living. And I, you know my story. I used to go around this little tennis court, and I would just scream at bombs. Like, that was my prayer life.

Starting point is 00:25:38 I didn't know what else to say. So I said, okay, well, deer and foxes and wild turkey don't speak English. So I'll go in the woods and do that. And going in there and also going through this thing called Grisha with my family, God used that to get a hold of me. So that profanity turned into prayer. And that's kind of where that's through that God showed me after a very long time. It took almost a better part of nine months to a year that I didn't take your dad away from you.

Starting point is 00:26:06 I gave him to you for 11 to 12 years as a as a brother. Someone you did not have. You had, and someone who was existing, barely hanging on, I've actually, he's fully healed now. It took a while for that to become real to me. And when it did, I was like, all right, God, it's time for me to stop existing. It's time to stop letting life happen to me. It's time for me to go out and happen to life. And so, yeah, yeah, I found a job.

Starting point is 00:26:31 Listen, sorry for your loss. Yeah, sorry for the loss. I know it's tough, you know, when I lost my mom. I went through a similar darkness. It was like I was managing this apartment building with almost 600 units. I had a team of 24. And I remember getting in the car. Don't remember the drive to work.

Starting point is 00:26:47 Remember getting out and going to work. Don't remember the drive home. I mean, it was just like a fog. That's kind of the only way I can explain it. And I got a demotion during the time because I was underperforming, you know. And that was the best thing that happened to me. And it's not some people would say, well, being demoted, it's great. Yes, I needed it.

Starting point is 00:27:06 I needed the time. I needed the new environment. I needed a change of scenery. I needed something to take something off my plate because it was too much. And so I resonate a lot with what you were going through. And I didn't do any cursing. I didn't do that. But I did definitely a lot of talking and just thinking about it. It's like, why now? I felt like that I was 31 years old and I was like, my life was over. Like I don't have my mom anymore. Who's going to help me like get through this life? And so it took a lot of, a lot of work and but again going to that property enabled me to get a restart, enabled me to recharge, enabled me to get refreshed and got a promotion that brought me back to D.C. and a bigger salary and all kinds of stuff, you know, and so these seasons that we go through are just that, folks. They're, they're seasons. There's going to be seasons in life, just like the winter and the spring and the summer and the fall. And when we're in the season, and it's hard to see that we're there. You know, it takes us getting to the other side of it to realize that, okay, now I know that I needed that.

Starting point is 00:28:12 I needed to go through that to get me to the next season. And so I'd love to talk about that next season for you. You had nine months in the woods, yelling at animals, yelling into the sky. So after you finally came to this realization that, okay, I see now why this occur. You kind of got the context spiritually. What was your next move? I started going out into McLean, Virginia, to a place called CNN, and there was like a networking place.

Starting point is 00:28:44 And that was the last place. You think after a heavy loss, like a parent, you just don't want to be around with people. So we as a family, I would go out there with my sister right above me and my mom. And it was tough because you're around people. They're saying, go talk to people. And it's just like, I feel I talk about nobody. But I was able to connect with a lot of different people.

Starting point is 00:29:01 because I'm living in D.C. I'm coming back. I'm assuming the majority of bills. I'm coming from the Midwest. You know, you don't come back from the Midwest to D.C. And, okay, wow,

Starting point is 00:29:11 cost of living is very different. And, you know, myself and Justin had agreed. He said, I think, because he himself was a Christian. He said,

Starting point is 00:29:20 I think God may want you down in that fire in D.C. a little bit longer. So I chose to, instead of, I forego, forewent that position with launch kits and stayed here, but I'm still not working. So I started.

Starting point is 00:29:31 started networking at that place. And I remember this meeting, I was looking at all this stuff for jobs. And I still, I find it just didn't connect with me. I was like, I don't want to work for someone else. But I have any income coming in. And I was using my savings to pay the bill. And so this one young lady by the name of Jennifer, I don't know if I want to put her whole name out there. I was like, her last name is S. She had shared her story of a job that she had got a place called International Justice Mission. And my mother just told me, she said, you should connect with her. because my mom was really into anti-human trafficking and anti-slavery. That really wasn't my ministry, but I was like, it's a worthy work.

Starting point is 00:30:07 And so I talked to her and I connected with her. She gave me her card. And in April of, this is April of 2018, she says, hey, I want you to visit me and go with me to so we have staff prayer before we do our work. And this place is corporate. I mean, this is investigations. This is some of the best in the business when it comes to anti-human trafficking. But these people pray 30 minutes a day.

Starting point is 00:30:27 And I was like, that's amazing. because I was a part of another staff that also prayed for like 30 minutes to an hour a day. I was like, that's interesting. And I went in and I'm seeing all these people in shirt and ties, all these lawyers and investigators and people in the top of IT and all sorts of stuff like prayer. And I'm like, okay. And after that, I kind of got some FaceTime with a few people. So I would start applying for jobs there.

Starting point is 00:30:51 All of them I got denied. And then my mom gave me this one announcement for a contract position with advocacy and mobilization, which was pretty much mobilizing what they do, I had an interview for 11 minutes. She said, I want you to start in September. So I was like, okay, I started. We go down to Texas, big, huge event. I meet all these people from 5,000 different people from the organization. I worked that position for two months. This woman by the name of Esther Daniel says, hey, I want you to come to this event with me in the Midwest. It's something for college. I wasn't able to go because I was still working as a contractor, which was good because that was the first

Starting point is 00:31:31 Christmas without dad, so I'm glad I got to be with my family. We, I keep talking to her, and then we have an interview over in Starbucks for five and a half minutes. I have my shirt's full of crumbs because I was eating a croissant. And after that, I give her my resume, and she says, all right, I want you to start January 10th, 2019. So I got a contract position working as a a global lead, and this is working with all these different offices. This is where this is key. When I was leaving the job I had as a counselor in the Midwest, it was a scripture in the book of Psalms and it says, ask now, give you the nations. Leaving this and coming to this, I was dealing literally with the nations, people in the Philippines, people in Cambodia, people in India,

Starting point is 00:32:18 people in Africa, people in Latin America. It was like crazy how much experience I got through that. It was hard because it was primarily administrative, so it wasn't what I was. wanted to do, but I said, you won't be perfect of this, but be faithful. And through that time, I remember around 2020, we actually went through a whole reorg, but through the reorg, I actually got a full-time job, which is crazy. People were getting a shuffle out of the organization. I got a full-time job. So I was like, okay, this is wow. And then I also got a $5,000 raise because the recruiter was like, well, I just thought that it would be worth it to put, this is what you should earn. And so my manager said, all right, we'll just find the budget for it.

Starting point is 00:32:56 That's great. Yeah. Which was kind of. crazy. You fast forward to January of 2020. Now, granted, I'm on LinkedIn. I only have LinkedIn as a place for my resume. And I learned about LinkedIn through the place of CNN. They had a whole class on LinkedIn. I was never on social media. I had placed, I had these thoughts in my mind when I would go through the woods and I would pray. And so for an hour and a half, I would just share my thoughts. For some reason, I said, why don't I put this on LinkedIn? And so I just started putting it on LinkedIn. I knew nothing about content creation. People started listening and watching these videos, bro. And after that, we had had a pandemic, so everything shut down. And then we had a cultural

Starting point is 00:33:40 pandemic with the murder and death of George Floyd. And so I felt like, okay, maybe I should speak to that. Because, you know, the narrative. It's either everything racist or there is no racism. And I was like, well, both of those things are wrong. I think there's a middle ground. And so I started speaking to that and people were like man this guy's actually not either left or right he kind of has his own mind and his own voice so people started listening and that's when a group by the name of safety justice league reached out and said hey we want you to come on our podcast i didn't know what to think because it's like i don't have a brand i don't have a business i didn't even know what a brand in the business was i didn't have a business acumen they just wanted to hear my story and they heard i worked at i jm

Starting point is 00:34:20 i came onto their podcast and it was four of them at that time and it was one girl a jewish girl by the name Abby Ferry. She said, are you a podcaster? I said, no, I ain't really into that. She said, you should be. You're a natural bro. The group that I was supposed to work for in Columbia, Pennsylvania said, we heard that podcast. They sent me $2K dollars and said, get yourself a MacBook Pro.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And we want to give you a whole web domain. That's where listening to speak was born. Do what you will with it. So I wasn't looking for this thing. This thing was looking for me. Fast forward, this very mic that I'm on now, one of my mentors, a man by the name of Rob Jollis says, I heard your podcast. I think you do an excellent job not only interviewing being interviewed, but also honoring the person that's interviewing you.

Starting point is 00:35:08 You ever thought about doing a podcast? And so he sent me this mic. He said, you got work to do. Then he gave me a sponsorship at Simplecast and said, hey, let's go. You'll be, he says, I'll be Rocky. You'll be Apollo Creed. Let's get in the ring. And so again, it started coming together what I was supposed to do.

Starting point is 00:35:26 Now, fast forward, how do we monetize this thing? I didn't know. Those videos I was doing, people start coming into my DMs and people said, are you like a counselor, like public speaker advisor? Because under your profile says global lead because that's what I was doing at I jam. And I said, well, I'm certified in that and that's what I used to do. And this guy by the name of Billy Samoa Salibi, who would end up mentoring me for the better part of you. He said, Jamal, that's who you are. He said, that's who you still are.

Starting point is 00:35:53 And I told him, I said, Bill, you know my story. That stuff died with my father. He said, no, that's who you still are. It's still in you. He said, unleash the beast, man. And he taught me a little bit about LinkedIn and about the algorithm, which has changed six trillion times since then. And I learned a little bit about this platform.

Starting point is 00:36:11 And those inbound leads, I started taking clients again. So one thing led to another. But again, I just want your audience to hear. I wasn't looking for a little. listening to speak, it wasn't the turn of like the COVID that said, hey, I want to be this entrepreneur. It was coming after me. It was already in me and now it was time to actually unleash what was creative inside of me. Yeah. And everything that you had done to that point was preparing you for everything. Yes. Right. And so yeah, when I think about my journey,

Starting point is 00:36:42 like everything, the rejection, the being overlooked, the nose, the failures, all of that has helped me be such a better business owner because, but again, we have to dive back into the past, not to dwell, but to reflect and to extract. Because if we can get those lessons and we can leverage them, and we can use them in stories like this podcast or in a blog or in a video, those are the things that matter because that's real life. You know, those are the things that help shape and help mold us. And now you've got a global brand, you've got an amazing show, and you're serving and helping high achievers all over the globe, right? Think about that. And that came from having to be the admin and going into prisons. And so if you didn't catch anything today, folks,

Starting point is 00:37:31 just know that the reps are important. And we're in life, we're going to do a lot of reps. Man, I was doing landscaping every day from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. and I am a high extrovert folks. I couldn't talk to anybody but people in Spanish because I was my dad's crew or leaves or trees. Just imagine, you know, me who just can't shut up with these big old ear things on in a power blower and can't talk to anybody for eight hours. But I know that in that season that I was doing that work, it showed me how to work hard. It showed me how to do things that I didn't really want to do, but I had to provide for my family. And so I did it, and I did it as well as I could until an opportunity I wasn't looking for in property management showed up when I was getting the package in the leasing office, and that turned into a 15-year career, right? So you just never know, folks, there's lots of unexpected detours in life.

Starting point is 00:38:31 And I'm excited to share that in October, when I launched my book, How to Blaze Your Own Trail, despite your circumstances, one of my chapters is actually called unexpected detours. and I really feel like that's going to add a ton of value to everyone that picks up a copy. And so, Jamal, you gave us so many stories, so many lessons, and it's been such a great time having you on the show. But I'd love for you to share, because I know you do a lot of work with the root cause, really getting down to helping people look at themselves, take that introspective look, figure out what it is that actually is going on so that they can elevate their game and be better versions of themselves.

Starting point is 00:39:11 So could you share a few tips, you know, maybe when it comes around burnout, because I know you help a lot of people that are people pleasers that are burnout in their jobs or in their personal lives. So what would be some tips that you could share that could help somebody that might be dealing with that right now? One tip I would share, and I would definitely say backtracking a little bit, 2021 when I got the LLC to make sure we did this thing legally and sound. And I got a lot of advice and counsel from you, even on pricing. and how to manage a business. And you've been very instrumental for the better part of four years and would have built here. But I would say to that point, here are three keys. One, develop trigger awareness.

Starting point is 00:39:54 What's a trigger? A trigger is any event that elicits a reaction. And so when you think about that, we are triggered, one, by things in our past or our present that elicits a reaction that typically will cause us to sink. if we don't have trigger awareness, we will continue to stay in that pattern. I tell each of my clients, this is a phrase I've coined. The problem is in the pattern, but the power is in the pause. Pause and ask yourself, why am I reacting to this instead of actually taking the time

Starting point is 00:40:27 to come with an informed response? And it takes time. It does not happen overnight. I can tell you, you know, it took me a lot of counseling and coaching to get to that place. It took layers of the root causes of what was going on in my subconscious to say, what triggers me? Because we hear the word trigger, but we don't even understand and define what are my triggers. So learn to develop trigger awareness. And I say that's something that you'll need to help of another person with.

Starting point is 00:40:53 But two, I want to say find a different escape problem. This is huge because we naturally are inclined to what is most common. We will escape to either food, whatever our pattern is, whatever our addiction is, entertainment, arguing, defensiveness. We have all sorts of different little escape routes that we like to take when it comes to either a trauma response, either high performance, whether it's burnout, whether it's let me. And the people pleasing really is let me find a way to fend off my own fear of rejection. Let me stay 10 steps ahead of everyone around me. Let me say yes to everything. Let me acquiesce.

Starting point is 00:41:29 Find a different escape route. And so we must ask ourselves, is this decision psychologically safe for me and other people around me? It's a proverb that says the end of a thing is better than this beginning. And so when we learn to begin with the end in mind, that will redirect us to find a different escape route. And it actually digs new neuro pathways in our brain. But it takes time. Again, it doesn't happen overnight because the brain and body will just get used to a certain pattern. And the body will store trauma.

Starting point is 00:41:57 So if ever you've been traumatized and people that don't have any trauma in my life, if there are events that have stockpile that you have not dealt with, that is directing you to a specific pattern. turn in the way that you live in the way that you respond. Three, I want to encourage people understand the way that you think. Understand how your mind works. None of us show up as a booming professional, whether you're a VP, senior leader, middle level manager, or business owner, and right on the spot, you're just this person. You are who you are wherever you go. You take you, you take your family history, your belief system, your patterns, your addictions, if you have them, your subconscious beliefs, your biases, you and I take those things everywhere with us,

Starting point is 00:42:41 understand those patterns. And so when you understand the way that you think, you can understand a bit about your reasoning. And when you understand about your reasoning, then you're able to develop an informed response that over time will connote emotional intelligence. We hear so much about an EQ can often be about how other people are feeling, but when you learn how to feel the feels of what you are feeling, you have a win-win situation. Love it. Love it. Those tips I know are going to be helpful for so many of our listeners. And, you know, I really want to give you an opportunity, Jamar. I know that you've got a lot of things you're working on. I know you coach people one-on-one, and then you also have programs where you actually help people that you're certified in to help them get past these things. So I'd love for you just to share something that you're working on. Yeah, right now, over the summer, people love to take breaks. We rev up in the fall. And so I love my clients.

Starting point is 00:43:39 I love the ones who will come on retention and we're rocking it out. But I have four open slots for executive coaching and counseling. And I combine the modality. If I coach you, you'll just get results from the outside end. I want to work on the belief that's actually informing your behavior because that's going to be what gets your results. That's what makes me different from most other coaches who are saying, I'm a high performance coach. Jamal's a whole different ball game. And you'll find out in my recommendation section, he gets results.

Starting point is 00:44:06 I have people who have done CPT for 20 years. And they say, how did I get accelerated through you in a matter of four months? And so we have four slots left for executive coaching. And then on the heels of that, you can decide whether you want to do group or not. And but first start with a one-on-one so you really can work through those root causes because that's going to be the biggest result mechanism. Absolutely. And we're going to make sure we link all this stuff in the show notes. Folks, make sure that you go into the show notes and you check out that information.

Starting point is 00:44:36 especially if you're dealing with any of the tips that he was giving. If that's you, make sure to connect with Jamal. Jamal, it's been a pleasure having you on the Blaze Your Own Trail podcast. Any parting words, my friend? Yeah, for everyone today who's listening, grab a freebie. It's called Three Tips on How to Medicaid Burnout, and you'll find that that will be extremely helpful. A lot of it we talked about here, but you get to see it in written form, and it's something that you have as all your own. You know where to find me? I'm the only person, only Jimal Marshall on LinkedIn and the website's listening and speak.com. But my parting words, as you all blaze your own trail, before you begin to do that, if you can get out of your own way, you'll find us a whole lot

Starting point is 00:45:17 easier to blaze your own trail. And those are my parting words. Love it, love it. Great advice, my friend and folks, Jamal Marshall on the blaze your own trail podcast. This was honestly a long time coming. I'm so glad we were able to do this interview. I know that the audience is going to get a ton of value, not just from your story and your journey, but from those tips that you shared and also from the resources. So folks, make sure don't let the conversation stop here. Don't just listen and consume. You've got to take action. If you want to truly be a trailblazer, if you want to differentiate yourself, you've got to make different choices than the average. If you want to be part of the 1%, you can't act like the 99. So do yourself as a favor.

Starting point is 00:46:00 reach out to Jamal after this episode and reach out to connect with him. He is as real as he was on this episode. That's the Jamal that you're going to get. I know personally from the last four and a half years we've known each other. So thanks again, brother, for coming on the show. Appreciate your time today

Starting point is 00:46:16 and keep blazing your own trail. Thanks for having me, man.

Blaze Your Own Trail - The Power of Counseling & Coaching with Jahmaal Marshall

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