Blind Plea - John, Barry, J

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Episode four: In Calera, John was known as J the Phone Guy. But it was just the latest in a web of personas. After years of run-ins with the law, John landed back in Alabama, living next to a father he barely knew.  Resources: If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at www.thehotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. You can also search for a local domestic violence shelter at www.domesticshelters.org/. If you have experienced sexual assault and need support, visit the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) at www.rainn.org or call 1-800-656-HOPE Have questions about consent? Take a look at this guide from RAINN at www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent  Learn more about criminalized survival https://survivedandpunished.org/  This series is created with Evoke Media, a woman-founded company devoted to harnessing the power of storytelling to drive social change. This series is presented by Marguerite Casey Foundation. MCF supports leaders who work to shift the balance of power in their communities toward working people and families, and who have the vision and capacity for building a truly representative economy. Learn more at caseygrants.org or visit on social media @caseygrants. Follow host Liz Flock on Twitter @lizflock. For more stories of women and self-defense, check out her book “The Furies” from Harper Books, available for pre-order now. https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-furies-elizabeth-flock Interested in bonus content and behind the scenes material? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium right now in the Apple Podcasts app by clicking on our podcast logo and the "subscribe” button. Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this and all other Lemonada series: lemonadamedia.com/sponsors.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus and guess what? I've got a podcast. It's called Wiser than Me and each week I get schooled on life by women who are older and yes, Wiser than Me. Older women are this country's biggest untapped natural resource and I want to hear from them. I want to know what they've learned by living 70 or 80 or 85 years. Jane Fonda, Darling Love, Isabella Ande,

and many more. Subscribe and get wise. Wise it in me. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Elise Myers. I'm a content creator and comedian. You might know me from TikTok. Why am I in your ears right now?

Well, that's a great question. I would love to tell you. I have a new podcast called Funny Cause It's True. On my show, I'll be interviewing comedians, pop culture icons, and also just people I find really funny. We'll be talking about the awkward moments that keep you awake at night. Because if you don't laugh, you cry, right? Okay, funny cause it's true. Out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

Lemonade. This show contains violent content and scenes of domestic and sexual abuse. Yeah, y'all just grab a chair, move it wherever you want. That one's got a cooler if you brought drinks. I wish. Yeah, we got drinks if you want. Y'all don't mind if I drink, do you? No, no, no. Live your life.

What's left of it? It's a warm September night in Hoover, Alabama. We're in an RV park next to a big baseball stadium. I'm sitting on a plastic lawn chair with Ethan Powell, where next to his trailer. He's got his beer in one hand and he needs it. Because we're about to talk about something painful and bittersweet. His friendship with John or his Ethan knew him, J.

Okay. So, about J. Yeah, thanks for talking to us. friendship with John, or as Ethan knew him, Jay. So, about Jay. Yeah, thanks for talking to us. Yeah. How did you meet Jay? So, I met Jay shortly after here, I've done Alabama, and it was working at Consignment Deal at the gas station. The, well, it's closed now. You passed it on your way there, It was working at Consignment Deal at the gas station.

It's closed now, you pass it on your way there, but it used to be the county line. He was fixing cell phones and computers. Ethan was a regular at the gas station, so he and John ran into each other a lot. And from the start, they just hit it off. John was the nicest guy Ethan says, hardworking too. I mean, the, my man came down here, you know, from New York City with like 10 bucks in

iPhone 3. John arrived in Alabama in 2013, and with him of course was Devon, thanks to his split second decision to escape life up north, including the pressure from her family and the failures of her past. It was a while before Ethan got to really know John and Devin. In the beginning, all he knew was that they were trying to build a new life from scratch and clear. And then, you know, meeting him and passing there, a lot and just talking to him, we became pretty close. So when John mentioned that he and Devon needed a place to live, Ethan was more than happy

to help out by selling them a camper. Later he would also sell John and Devon some guns. How many guns did Jay have? I know of two. The one that he got arrested with, and the one that killed him. This is Blind Plea. I'm your host, Liz Flock. Ethan says he and his ex-wife, Desi, who you heard from in episode one, probably knew John

and Devon better than anyone else down in Caliria. But even so... I feel like I didn't know a certain side of him, as far as who he was before Alabama, but I feel like I knew who he was here. John was complex. Throughout my reporting, I found that he could be one thing to one person and something completely different to another. He had a web of personas.

Depending on who I spoke to, John was a genius, an angel, a manipulator. I wanted to know more about John so I could understand what set him on the path that ultimately led to his death. And to find out if the system failed him, just like it failed Devon. To do that, we have to unravel his past, beginning with his childhood in Alabama.

It was 1986, he was eight months old. heard in Alabama. It was 1986. He was eight months old. John was amazing, just a big chunky, we used to call him Bubba, and you know, as a kid, smart. He didn't talk a lot when he was very young. He mostly absorbed stuff. This is John's mom, Christine Leone. She's a New Yorker, not an Alabamaian, but she married one. Henry Vance, John's father. That's how Christine, Henry, John, and John's older sister Casey ended up on the Vance family property in Calirah.

The same land where John and Devon would later live. They stayed with Henry's mom for a while, who everyone called Mama Cat. But something about Mama Cat's house unsettled Christine. We had one of the bedrooms in there, and it was a weird... I felt like there was a presence, a spiritual presence in the house. Anyway, I'm going from one room to the other room, bedroom to the bathroom, and every time I passed that very spot, I would get a chill,

or it would be very hot, or it was just a very odd sensation in that spot. One evening, while Mama Cat, Henry, and some friends were drinking around the table, Christine's curiosity got the best of her. I go, what the hell is going on in this house? Is it like part of the wool mess in? Is. I go, what the hell is going on in this house? Like, is there like part of the wool missing? Is the foot like, what is it?

Because it was hot in Alabama. Like, why do I feel chills in this area? Henry explained that's where Mama Cat's husband Billy died back in 1977. And then she said, I shot him. I shot him dead. So it must have been a relief when Christine and Henry secured their own trailer to live in on the Vance property,

away from Mama Cat's haunted house. We lived in one of them there, trailers with that wooden furniture with all the big brown flowers on them that you see in memes. You know what I'm talking about? We had that whole set. We had that whole friggin set. Even though the land was overgrown, Christine and Henry made it their own. They cultivated a small farm with chickens, cows, and pigs.

John's older sister Casey remembers those early days, spending hours playing outside together. We were really busy. We were only a year apart, so we were really really close. Kasey said she had a horse named Strawberry, and John had a go-kart. What would John do with the go-kart and everything? He was really good. Like he knew how to ride that shit. I didn't. I barely almost cut my head off one time. I tried it. I didn't work out.

Live animals playing on the sprawling and wild land. It sounds like an idyllic upbringing. But Henry's presence cast a shadow over their childhoods. What was he like as a dad? He was okay, but he was hard. He was like one of them hard, southern dads. Like, you you wanna swim? I'll teach you how to swim, you know,

throw him in a creek, you know, kind of shit. He was beer drinking truck driving, dog fighting, fighting sort of a bitch. And I think he wanted my son to grow up like that. Henry had always been rough that way. Christine met him back in 1983, and he made a strong first impression. She'd been working in Manhattan as a photographer

when she needed a change of scenery. On a whim, she flew out to Florida to stay with her sister Fran and her sister's boyfriend Larry. She was only 21 years old. They picked me up from the airport, Larry and Fran, I go in there with my photo equipment because that's all I had with me and some clothes, getting the back seat and they're talking, hey we're gonna go to wherever we're gonna go and Larry goes, hey by the way

that's Henry and I turn around and look and all I could think of now is he reared his ugly head from the back of the car because he had really very long hair and about long beard and he looked like a Viking and I go, who are you? He goes, oh, the man your mama warned you about. I was like, oh my God. So yes, I was intrigued, but then not too long into hanging out, became a couple and then then he got physically abusive. Christine says Henry would beat her up regularly.

One time when they still lived in Florida, she says he gave her a traumatic brain injury. She wanted to leave the relationship, but once she found out she was pregnant with Casey, she stayed with him. And soon enough, Christine was on her way to the Vance family property in Caliria, with Henry, Casey, and John, who was just eight months old. She says the abuse escalated there. And over the next six years,

it became more and more apparent that she had to get out. You have a different perspective of life when you have a child. You definitely have a different perspective because they're tiny humans that they're being exposed to your whatever you're into, like whatever life is like, they're growing up watching that shit and thinking it's okay to live that way. And after a while I was like, this is insane. I can't live like this.

After a few failed attempts to leave, Christine finally made a break for it. With her, she took John and Casey, who were six and seven, and fled Kalyra. It was the last time I was ever gonna let him beat the shit out of me in front of my kids. I did not want to die. I felt like I was gonna die if I didn't leave. Or my kids are gonna watch him kill me. In a way, I'm done. I said, grab anything, that means whatever to you

and we are running. And the kids ran through the woods, but I have to beg. They stayed in shelters as they journeyed north. They made it to Boston Spa, New York, where Christine and the kids lived with another sister for a bit, then eventually got their own place nearby. I was free. I was so free. I was like, so like I couldn't believe it. But I was, I was very, um, I still was scared because he always said he would find me and kill me if I ever left him. of a left-him. Christine says a friend gave her a shotgun for protection, just in case. She says she felt like Sarah Conner in the Terminator,

walking around corners of the house with a 12 gauge. Did you ever hear from him about what his reaction was or anything? No, they killed the dogs. What do you mean? We had, um, Beauty was a Pippo box of mix And, um, there was meat

He was about 125 pound Stavagery Terrier And we had to leave them And, um, when I finally did get in touch with him, I, um, He told me that they killed him. They killed the dogs. Christine is tough. She's had to be to survive.

But in moments like this one, she let her guard down. I asked Casey about that time. Were you scared of Henry at that time? No. It was normal. You know what I'm saying? As opposed to now thinking about it, like, wow, that's crazy. Like that's insane. And then like when you talk about it with people, they're all like, and you're just in there like, oh, it was, and I don't realize how stuff is until the people react, you're like, oh, I guess I was bad. Right. Yeah.

Christine says Henry never came looking for them, and he never paid child support. So she worked three jobs to make ends meet. Meanwhile, the kids adjusted to their new life in New York. Days to go out into Creek and swim all the time, and my son would catch water moccasins. He, he, he, six years old. Catchin' snakes.

John sister Casey says that when John wasn't playing in the creek, he was making things, always making things. Computers, building stuff, like all that stuff. That was really his, his thing. He could build a computer from nothing, from parts. KC remembers their home was scattered with boxes upon boxes of electronics. I feel like if there was more opportunities for him when he was younger and into all that shit, he would be like fucking Bill Gates or something. My audio engineer Andy and I flew out to upstate New York to meet Christine.

My audio engineer, Andy and I flew out to upstate New York to meet Christine. She lives in Boston Spa now and she offered to give us a tour of Saratoga Springs. Left or right to Saratoga Springs? Oh, going right. Go back to the main road. And then you could take 50 all the way to Saratoga. Oh God. It's a brisk sunny fall day. We're driving by John's old haunts, the places they lived when he was young. You're going to see a bunch of cedar trees and a lot. And the lot where the cedar trees are is where we use the lead right there.

As a teenager, John became a little less geeky and a lot more popular. Christine says he made a point to dress well. John really had the best clothes, like everybody wanted to wear his clothes and shed. All the good sneakers, all the aft-force ones and all that. Remember those real big Timberland coats with the down and that big hood with the fur? John would even sell clothes for a little extra cash, Christine says. Together they also started to flip cars, electronics, and whatever else he could find on the side of the road.

As smart as he was, Christine says John was frustrated by school. He also got into a lot of fights. It didn't help that things were tough at home. Christine says she got into relationships after Henry that were also abusive. Abuse John probably witnessed. Studies show teens who have witnessed domestic violence often struggle with PTSD, tend to act out and are more likely to get in trouble with the law. Some repeat the pattern of abuse

by becoming abusers themselves, just like it seems Henry did and John too. John's sister Casey says he was sent to a group home at 16 to straighten up. Ultimately, he dropped out of school. It was around this time that John started racking up criminal charges. From her home, Christine tells me that the first significant charge came in 2005 when John was 18. He was in a car with one guy, the guy had crack. I'm sure they did cope together. John didn't do crack. I know he did cope at some point in his life, as most of us have.

But anyway, they were in the car, they got pulled over by the police. His friend gets out of the car, crack, full off his lap, he had bags of crack. The guy did. Christine says the crack didn't belong to her son, but he was charged with attempted criminal sale of a controlled substance. A few years later in 2010, when John was 23, he allegedly stole $4,000 from two bank accounts. He was charged with grand larceny, which carries a sentence of up to seven years. But he managed to evade the cops while in Saratoga.

By the time John and Devon got together later that year, he was a wanted man. And he had three little girls by another woman. That relationship had been on and off again for years, and it was messy. Christine says John later suspected his first daughter wasn't actually his. After that, she says he was always worried

about his partner cheating on him. Devon knew about some of this. John's kids, a few of his charges, but she loved John and mostly saw the good in him instead. So, I mean, since you knew Devin, what did you make of her and John's connection? Like, what did you think about it? The way I, I, I, I, I be honest.

I didn't say I'm not going to say they shouldn't have been together. But they shouldn't have been together. Christine says she thought Devin developed an unhealthy attachment to John. I think my son has always been attracted to girls who are needing to be saved. That's what Christine says John was doing when he took Devon away from her family to New York City, saving her. It was in New York City that Devon says John hit her for the first time in front of Christine when Christine came for a visit According to Devon after she rolled her eyes over something John hit her in the chest and she fell to her knees seeing stars

She says that Christine was crying and she tried to separate them, but Christine says it never happened Devon and John didn't stay in New York City for much longer. Next, they headed up state to Skonectity, New York, where John sister Casey lived with her kids. It's less than 45 minutes from where Devon grew up. Did Devon and John seem okay when they were staying with you? I don't know. She was like, infatuated with them. Neither one of them worked.

You know, they would stay up all night, they didn't have jobs. Did you ever see them like physically fight or anything? I mean, they've argued and things like that. I didn't really see them like fist fight or anything. I mean, if I've heard stories, obviously. Like Christine, cases of that time are very different from what Devon has told me.

John's family insists he wasn't abusive, but again, there is so much evidence to support that John was violent with Devon, not just physically, but sexually. A heads up, there are about to share some graphic details about sexual assault. Devon says that during this time, John started to rape her. A forensic psychologist who later interviewed Devon wrote that he demanded sex from Devon several times a day, and that when she

did not want to have oral or anal sex, he forcibly thrust his penis inside her. The psychologist also wrote that John sometimes videotaped these encounters. Devon says that abuse pattern would continue for years. Both in New York and its connectivity, Devon says John barely let her leave the room where they were staying, because he was always worried she would somehow find a way to cheat on him. There stay with John sister Casey was short-lived, due to that incident where John fired a rifle in the air. Casey says it happened after he got into an argument

with some people down the street. And like, whole police department was in my house because he was in the backyard. And that was literally the last time I ever spoke down. Oh, really, you never talked to him after that? Nope. After that night, John decided to leave for Alabama and Devon made the decision to join him.

When Christine learned they were going to Kalyra, she wasn't opposed to it, despite her own history with Henry. If you're not traumatized or you have not, like bad, horrific feelings about your dad and you want to meet him, that's totally up to you. Because so many years went by, I'm thinking it would be okay. And to be around his father.

So we did have a couple of interactions. And it was like sure, John come down a few more soon. By leaving Henry when John was young, Christine said she wanted to ensure her kids wouldn't grow up thinking that kind of violence was okay. But John was already old enough to remember what he had seen. And after Henry, John witnessed more abuse at home with Christine's new partners. So the violence was imprinted on John,

and it would stay with him as he journeyed with Devon down to Calirah. So I do love to cook, but I really don't like all of the planning and prep that goes into it. And then just when you think you have everything ready to go, you realize that, of course, you forgot to pick up the garlic. But with HelloFresh, you get farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients, and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. You can skip trips to the grocery store and count on HelloFresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it's America's number one meal kit.

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Go to HelloFresh.com slash BlindPlee16 and use code BlindPlee16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. That's HelloFresh.com slash BlindPlee16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. That's hellofresh.com slash BlindPlee16 and use code BlindPlee16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. Hey, it's me, Sam Beave, and it's no secret, I'm ProChoice. Yes, that one, but also others.

Because I'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-choice says those crazy life-altering decisions that shift our life path and bring us to where we are today. My next choice, starting this new podcast with Lemonada Media, called Choice Words, where I interview people I admire about the biggest decisions they've made in their lives. Choice Words is out now, wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody call them Jay the phone guy. What did he do fixing phones just like if you broke? Screens, hardware repair, batteries,

software reset phones, jailbreakers, rudum, whatever you want. Jay, the phone guy. In Calira, that was John's new identity. He needed money to support him and Devon, so we started fixing phones out of a gas station. That's where he met his friend Ethan. Ethan says John would sometimes hit him up

about working odd jobs together. If he was calling you, you didn't know if it was to be like, hey, what's up, come hang out. Or like, hey, yo, we're finna make two grand off of this deal. I'm finna get him, finna get a pallet of electronics for me, Bay. And, you know, there really was no telling. Ethan says John also made a living that way by broken electronics locally and fixing them

up to resell on eBay. As John was making a new identity for himself during those early, calirid days, Devin says he was also always looking over his shoulder. He was paranoid the police were after him for the crimes he'd committed in New York, so he started carrying a stolen ID that read the name Barry Walsh. He kind of resembled the man in the picture, Devon says. Christine was one of the few people from back home that John and Devon talked to during those years in Alabama, checking in regularly over the phone.

And from the start in 2013, Devon was open with her about what was going on. So when she called you and said that he was being abusive, like what was your reaction to that? Get out. Always get out. Always get out. We talked about the fact that I lived on the same land 30 years ago with his father and how I was treated there.

But also the difference, you know, keep saying it. I did not have a phone. I had no access to a phone. I did not have familial support from either side. When Christine and Henry were together and clear on the late 80s and early 90s, there was no internet, no cell phones, and no one else lived on the land. There was no internet, no cell phones, and no one else lived on the land.

There was no phone. I didn't have access to a vehicle. It was a very hidden spot. They didn't even have a mailbox. They wouldn't get a mailbox. You had to go to the post office to get mail. It was secluded, very secluded. But even in 2013, Devon says John limited her access to the phone. She didn't have a car, and she couldn't rely on the Vance family for support. John's dad Henry told police he turned the TV up when he heard the couple fight, in Anchila said she didn't ask questions. And as you know from the last episode, Devon only had contact with her own family for

a few brief moments. Christina and I have talked on the phone a dozen times over the last year and she's told me different things at different times about whether John was abusive to Devon. Sometimes she says that John never beat her. This bullshit with her, getting beat up is just absolute crap. Other times she says she isn't sure. I will never say that my son didn't put his hands on her, but I will always say that I didn't see him.

And when we met in person, she put the responsibility all on Devon. If it is at the point that my son is putting his hands on you, get the fuck out of there. Get the fuck out of there. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for Christine to reckon with all of this. Here's another woman who dealt with severe abuse from her partner, but not connecting at all with what Devon went through. Christine thinks that even if there was abuse, Devon could have left.

Just like she left Henry, running away from Alabama with her two small children. She thinks if she had the strength to do it, Devon should have it too. Even though Christine's kids were older than Devon's daughter, and even though it took Christine many years and multiple attempts to leave Henry, it's a theme I've noticed throughout my reporting on domestic violence. Women who've experienced it are sometimes quick to criticize other women in similar situations. Things were about to get way more complicated for both John and Devon, because the local

police were now after John, not for his pending charges up north, but for a new charge in Alabama. In March 2015, two officers pulled up to the Vance property. It had been almost three years since John and Devon arrived in Caliria. The police were struck by the strangeness of the property. There was pieces of phones, pieces of cell phones, like circuit boards and pieces all over the ground, all over everything around the camper. Knocked on the door.

It's here movement. Now Sheriff's Office asks if somebody come to the door, come out probably for 10 or 15 minutes. No one would come out. This new charge was more serious than any of John's alleged crimes in New York. Here in Alabama, he was wanted on a charge of rape. A few months prior, Ethan had thrown a party at his house, and he says John was pretty drunk.

John met a 17-year-old girl at the party. He was 28 at the time. Amid all the drinking and partying, John and the underage girl went into the wooded area behind Ethan's home. That's where John allegedly raped her. Another man from the party told police he stumbled across the encounter as it was happening. Shane Mayfield was the agent assigned to the case. According to him, the girl's allegation was highly credible because of her testimony

and because of the third party witness. I was confident enough to believe her story that I charged him with those two very serious crimes, and I don't do that unless I'm confident that I've got the right person. But John told Devon he didn't do it, and she believed him. She still does. She was very young, and her story just didn't make any sense because to me, John's not going to change you into the woods.

And then the way that she was explaining how he was attacking her, it really didn't make any sense. In some ways, Devon is still caught up in John's world, believing the things he's told her. Also, by the time the rape allegedly happened, John was so drunk at the party that Devon thought he would have been passed out. But like I said, the police believed the rape allegation had serious merit. And that's how Mayfield and Chilton County Sheriff John Sheeran found themselves standing

outside of John and Devon's trailer. They could hear someone was inside, but no one would come to the door. About 10 or 15 minutes passed. That's when John appeared with a semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder. So, of course, that's an old crap moment when that happens. But, I mean, you definitely hear on the back of your neck, it's an old crap moment when that happens. But I mean, you definitely hair on the back of your neck, it's going to stand up at that point in time because you know,

you got somebody with a gun shooting somebody's last thing you want to do, but you know, you got to go home to your family at night. And if I make that decision, that's on the limb. The officers told me John was obviously intoxicated. He moved unsteadyly and slurred his words. Despite their commands, John wouldn't put the rifle down. Mayfield and Sheeran had their guns drawn in a standoff with John, as half a dozen other reinforcements arrived.

It's almost like he just wanted to die that day. They'd die or kill us one of the other. And you know, he just kind of got out of hand. The officers weren't the only ones trying to de-escalate the situation, so was Devon. Oh, she was trying to calm him down and trying to get him to put the gun down. I do remember that.

Oh, that didn't really have an effect on him. I mean, it just seemed like he was getting more more agitated. Sharon says they ordered Devon back in the trailer. They didn't want anyone else getting hurt or taking hostage. The standoff lasted nearly 45 minutes. Finally, Mayfield says the officers caught a break. Because of his intoxicated state, the rifle just slipped off his shoulder.

And when it slipped, that gave us, since clear officers' opportunity to try to take him and custody without shooting him. John didn't go down without a fight. Mayfield says he wanted to be a, quote, knucklehead by resisting arrest. Still, the police were cautious in using force on John, which was surprising, given how quickly and violently police in this country wheeled force against black men. It's almost like they didn't take John's threats seriously, maybe because he was drunk

or maybe because he was white. I asked Sharon if they might have done something different if John was black. That pisses me off right there. I don't care who's listening or who will be listening. You know, it don't matter what color anybody is because we don't look at color. We just, we deal with what people do. We have to react to what people do with us. And that's what we have to deal with. If somebody points a gun at us, they're going to be shot.

And it got a little touchy there. It really did. I mean, if it had come to that, he it got a little touchy there. It really did. I mean, if it had come to that, he probably would have been plain and simple. But color has nothing to do with this. Sheeran says John pointed the gun at them, but not in a quote, aggressive manner. Eventually, the officers were able to tackle John and take him to the police station. He was later charged with making terrorist threats, resisting arrest, and menacing for his behavior with the officers.

John's rifle was confiscated and he was taken to jail, under the name Barry Walsh. That's because Devon handed one of the officers John stole an ID as they took him away. And that's how his arrest didn't flag the authorities up in New York who were looking for him under his real name. Alabama police only discovered his name was John Vance leader. As of 2015, John, or Jay the phone guy, or Barry Walsh, was still alluding everybody. I'm World Cup champion Megan Klingenberg.

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and Ice. From stylish sweatshirts to eco-friendly water bottles, we've worked hard to curate a line of actually cool merchandise that will fit seamlessly into your everyday life. Be sure to check out our merch store at www.lemonautimedia.com After so many years of isolation and abuse in that little camper, John's arrest could have been an opportunity for intervention. John was obviously unstable and wielding a semi-automatic rifle. Devon was unable to calm him down. They both needed help. In some states, police can step in and take firearms away from people who are

threat to themselves or others. These states have what's called red flag loss. But Alabama doesn't have anything like that on the books. If they did, it's possible the police could have confiscated the rifle John was pointing that day, and also the pistol Devon later used to kill him. But Sharon insists those laws would never work. I mean, a lot of people want to do the red flag laws. They want to criminalize these guns. Those guns to take them away from people, stuff like that. As long as there's bad people out there, you're going to always have bad guns and

people's hands. I mean, you're not going to be able to stop that. All you're doing is taking guns away from good people that can protect themselves and the criminals going to have them regardless. He also argues there's little the police could have done to intervene that day because they didn't know John was abusing Devon. Simply put, they were just there to arrest him on the rape charge, not to scrutinize the situation for signs of domestic violence.

Sheeran says Devon would have had to pull an officer aside and report the abuse directly for that to happen. of domestic violence. Sheeran says Devon would have had to pull an officer aside and report the abuse directly for that to happen. Most of those situations, the victim is going to have to come forward. So, you know, we can't deal with that, you know, unless they come forward with it. The more I've covered domestic violence, the more I've realized that police are not well-trained to handle it.

They often don't recognize the signs. Around the country, some cities and towns are starting to offer training for police officers to identify when a person is living in a potentially lethal situation. Some places are even sending social workers out along with police. That change is the result of years of organizing and advocacy. Because social workers are trained to spot signs of domestic abuse and can provide survivors

with counseling, shelter placement, and resources. Some advocates believe police shouldn't handle domestic violence situations at all, at least not alone. But in Calirah, that's all John and Devon got. You know, we're trying to get a domestic violence advocate here and that's my point, you know, is that, you know, you have so many domestic type situations that, you know, if we have somebody dealing to help and deal with it on the front end. Maybe those things won't happen, get the woman out, get her some help and stuff like that.

It won't happen. But right now for a budget, it probably ain't going to happen this year. But it's a great thing to be able to do so. But don't have the money to do it, don't have the money to do it. According to the CDC, alcoholism, trauma, and financial instability are all risk factors for domestic abuse. John struggled with all three. If a social worker had been present, they could have intervened with help for him too,

but instead, the cops just locked him up. John was put in Shelby County jail under his fake name, Barry Walsh. Even there, John got away with concealing his true identity. The authorities had no idea who he really was. But John was only in there for a few days because Devon bonded him out with some money they says she wanted to leave him, but he was her world. I should have run, like, to Alaska. But in my head, and at the time, I just, I didn't, I just don't know where, I don't know. I like, I felt like, you know, if I stayed, I proved

that I have loyal and faithful stuff, like, when he gets out of me nice feet. Immediately after bonding out on the charges from the standoff, John was arrested for the rape. He was taken to jail again on a higher bail to wait trial. From jail, John sent handwritten letters

to the judge on the case. He wrote that he didn't rape anyone and had the evidence to prove it. He also wrote, My family and livelihood continued to suffer. John signed each letter with his alias, Barry Walsh. During this time, Devon was alone, taking care of their one-year-old baby. She was just 23 years old.

So she was pregnant, her new, and I first time all, you know, and I had anybody. I had nobody in Alabama, so I was kind of just stuck, and I fell stuck. Jon spent eight months in jail. Ultimately, the state dropped the rape case because the material witness never showed up. So John was released. I tried to reach out to the rape victim, but couldn't get in touch. And John never ended up going to trial for the terrorist threats

because he died before that could happen. On my first phone call with Christine, she told me she knew her son wasn't perfect. He always uninducked at anything he's ever done. But others saw it as more black and white. They saw John as an angel or a monster. In reality, he was somewhere in the middle of those extremes, a tangle of contradictions. And that's why Devon stayed with him. He could be kind, protective.

And Devon wasn't the only person who saw that in him. As things became uglier between John and Devon, he started to show his sweet side to another person. Alexis Bernstein, his girlfriend on the side. The relationship didn't sit well with John's friend Ethan. He was skeptical of Alexis from the star. I didn't like Alexis to be honest with you. I'm a part and a person, a level. I don't know work, but I don't trust her. And I got that vibe pretty quick. What about her was untrustworthy?

The vibes off. The way that she instantly was like it had this attraction for Jay. Next time on Blind Plea, how Alexis got wrapped up with John and this criminal case. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at the Hotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. There's more Blind plea with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like an interview with Christine about the secrets we keep in families.

Subscribe now and Apple podcasts. Blind plea is a production of Lemonada Media. I'm your host, Liz Flock. This episode was produced by Hannah Boomer-Shine. Rachel Pilgrim is also our producer. Kristen LePore is our senior producer. Tony Williams is our associate producer. Story Editing by Martina Abraham's Illumga. Mixed music and sound design by Andrea Kristen's daughter with additional mixing and engineering from Ivan Kuraiv. Naomi Bar is our fact checker. Jala Everett is our production intern. Jackie Dancigar is our vice president of narrative content.

Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova-Cramer, evoke media, and Sabrina Mirage-Nayin, and myself Liz Flock. This series was co-created with evoke media and presented by Margaret Casey Foundation. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow me, Atlas, Vlock, and for more stories of women and self-defense, check out my book, The Furies, from Harper Books, available for pre-order now. Find Lemonada at Lemonada Media

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