Blind Plea - The Parole Hearing

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Episode 8: After she was convicted, Deven was sent to Julia Tutwiler Prison in Wetumpka, Alabama — one of the most infamous lockups in the county. Alabama’s prison system is overcrowded and understaffed with a long history of human rights abuses. But there was a light at the end of the tunnel: the possibility of parole.  Resources: If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at www.thehotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. You can also search for a local domestic violence shelter at www.domesticshelters.org/. If you have experienced sexual assault and need support, visit the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN) at www.rainn.org or call 1-800-656-HOPE Have questions about consent? Take a look at this guide from RAINN at www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent  Learn more about criminalized survival https://survivedandpunished.org/  Learn more about the grassroots organization behind the Alabama prison strike https://bothsidesofthewall.com/ Read more about the Alabama prison strike https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/10/06/alabama-said-prison-strike-was-under-control-footage-shows-system-in-deadly-disarray  This series is created with Evoke Media, a woman-founded company devoted to harnessing the power of storytelling to drive social change. https://weareevokemedia.com  This series is presented by Marguerite Casey Foundation. MCF supports leaders who work to shift the balance of power in their communities toward working people and families, and who have the vision and capacity for building a truly representative economy. Learn more at caseygrants.org or visit on social media @caseygrants. Follow host Liz Flock on Twitter @lizflock. For more stories of women and self-defense, check out her book “The Furies” from Harper Books, available for pre-order now. https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-furies-elizabeth-flock Interested in bonus content and behind the scenes material? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium right now in the Apple Podcasts app by clicking on our podcast logo and the "subscribe” button. Click this link for a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this and all other Lemonada series: lemonadamedia.com/sponsors.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Julia Louis-Dreyfus and guess what? I've got a podcast. It's called Wiser than Me and each week I get schooled on life by women who are older and yes, Wiser than Me. Older women are this country's biggest untapped natural resource and I want to hear from them. I want to know what they've learned by living 70 or 80 or 85 years. Jane Fonda, Darling Love, Isabella Ande,

and many more. Subscribe and get wise. Wise it in me. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Elise Myers. I'm a content creator and comedian. You might know me from TikTok. Why am I in your ears right now?

Well, that's a great question. I would love to tell you. I have a new podcast called Funny Cause It's True. On my show, I'll be interviewing comedians, pop culture icons, and also just people I find really funny. We'll be talking about the awkward moments that keep you awake at night. Because if you don't laugh, you cry, right? Okay, funny cause it's true. Out now, wherever you get your podcasts. This show contains violent content and scenes of domestic abuse. Call from 7. Great.

And incarcerated individual at Alabama Department of Corrections. To accept this recall press, 1. To refuse this recall press. Thank you for using Securus. You may start the conversation now. Hello. Hey.

Hi. I'm here with the Christian and the whole team. Hi, hi, hi, hi. We tried to get in, but it was not possible. Yeah, Christian said they called the cops talking. But that was crazy. I'll talk to you. What the hell is crazy? It's September 2022, and I'm an Alabama with my team.

I tried to go see Devon in prison, but yeah, that didn't work out. Devon's been incarcerated for almost five years. And one of the things that's been hardest about prison is she hasn't gotten to see any of her loved ones in person. Her daughter, her dad, Aunt Sheila, nobody has seen her face to face. Because of how complicated it can be to get approved. It's one of the things that unnerves me most about prison.

How opaque it is. How hard it is to see what's going on inside. So last year, the Blind Plea team decided we'd make every effort we could to get in, to see Devon at Julia Teltweiler Prison in Witthumpga, Alabama. Even though one local journalist told me no press had been approved to enter Teltweiler in years. Hi there, this is Liz Luck. I'm the journalist who spoke to you and your office

earlier about visiting in late Devon Gray for a story I'm working on. I never got a call back from you, so I'm just calling back again. I tried to get in to see Devon for half a year with no success. The Alabama Department of Corrections denied a press visit, saying that they did not coordinate or facilitate media interviews, and they told me that audio recording would be disruptive to the women inside. I applied to be on Devon's regular visitation list, like friends or family would do, but I was only approved to visit her by video. Basically, a Zoom call. But that wasn't the point. After all these years of

talking to Devon on the phone, I wanted to meet her in person. But I was out of luck. Until Devon told me about this thing called a special visit. She said it was a special categorization for people who come in from out of town. It seemed like a crazy long shot, but since I was on Devvin's video visitation list and since our team was already planning on going to Alabama for a reporting trip, I thought, why not try? What we didn't know at the time was that special visits are only for immediate family members,

and they have to be approved in advance. And that's how our audio engineer Andy and I found ourselves in a very precarious situation. Devon told us she checked with the prison beforehand and that it was worth trying for a special visit on this day. But see, this is the problem. Nothing is clear. It's really hard to get information. You can't get a special visit, only if you're not on the visitation list. But then I said, can you remove these from the list? Right, but it doesn't work like that. visitation list. So we could do a special visit if we weren't on the

visitation list. That may no sense to me. Anyway, they made it very clear that they weren't going to let us in and that we had to leave. So we headed back out and got in the car. Andy and I decided to drive around the perimeter of the prison. If we couldn't see Devon, maybe we could at least see where she'd been calling us from this whole time, and record what the prison yard sounded like from the outside. And that's when I made the world's worst left turn. That plan quickly went haywire. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, You can tell my voice is panicked. This is not normal. I've driven around the perimeter of other prisons before without any issues and there was no signage

here to tell us where we could or couldn't drive. This is rather proper. Yeah. You've been ran off from the front gate once. You try to go down to the anaces. Like he had to have you been told. I was just trying to do a look, sir. He told you to leave. Yeah. You left and came back. So that's three different things. Okay, no, but this is not my instrument. Of course, please, thank you. He takes our IDs and goes back to his car. We're freaking out.

Not only because we might get arrested, but because we're worried about the way that might impact Devon. The wait is at the end. I'm going to have to go back to my car. I'm going to have to go back to my car. We're freaking out. Not only because we might get arrested, but because we're worried about the way that might impact Devon. The weight is agonizing. Then we get lucky. They let us off with a warning. All right, here's your outings now. This is the main highway.

This is Steel State property. Got it. We've got it. I'll come back unless you're approved to visit. Absolutely. And besides, you'll deliver something in the mail, okay? Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much. You have to leave it for something in the mail, okay? Thank you so much. Thank you.

This facility and really the whole Alabama carceral system has been riddled with issues for decades. So it makes sense the people in charge will do everything in their power to keep anyone from seeing inside. But we weren't giving up. We had one more last-ditch Hail Mary Plan to get into Tupller. This is Blind Plei. I'm Liz Flock. Alabama's prison system has a bad reputation. It's understaffed, overcrowded, and has a long

history of human rights violations. Even when it's working like it's supposed to, it's a bureaucratic nightmare. There's a maze of agencies and companies that have a stake in Alabama's prisons. They overlap and undercut each other in ways that strain the limits of human comprehension. I've spent years reporting on prisons, and even I get dizzy trying to make sense of it all. Nearly every time I tried to get information on Devon's case,

I got Stonewalled. Interview requests got denied, phone lines went repeatedly to voicemail, it was a mess. And these days, there's a new pressing problem. Almost no one is getting out on parole statewide. In 2022, parole approvals in Alabama dropped to a historic, unbelievable low. Only 11% of people who were up for review actually got out. For context, the parole rate in the state of New York is 41%. And there are

plenty of people who think even that is way too low. The system is brutal everywhere, but it's surreal how inhumane things can be an Alabama prisons. Someone dies inside them almost every single day. From prison to her parole hearing, today we're taking you into Devon's nightmare. After Devon signed her plea deal, she was moved from the Shelby County Jail to Tuttwiler prison. Tuttwiler is the gateway to the women's prison system in Alabama.

Everyone passes through there and it houses the state's female death row. And it's infamous. In 2013, Mother Jones named it as one of the 10 worst prisons in the country. Shortly after that, the Department of Justice investigated the prison. They found a culture of sexual assault by the guards. Women incarcerated there identified more than a third of staff members as having had sex with someone locked up. And the beatings were constant. Since then, Tutweiler has supposedly cleaned up its act.

The Department of Justice says they're an almost full compliance with constitutional standards. But a lot of the women who I talk to regularly on the inside today say conditions still aren't humane. What has your experience been like in the present. It was a shock at first because the men that work here have no respect for the women. They disregard the trauma that they've been through. Most of these women have been abused, actually, or physically, you know, a family member or just have been right and it's impacted their lives and in a terrible way. I'm locked in a room 24 hours a day and you take a shower, they got a pancophutical take a shower.

I mean, it's present, the prison is not supposed to be a cakewalk, but it is unbelievably horrible here. You just heard from Lisa Brown, Brittany Smith, Geneva Coulee, and Katie Stanfield. Some of these women are friends of Devons. Some I connected with independently. They tell me stories of how they've found maggots in their food, how there's no AC in the sweltering summer, how easy it is to get weed and even meth on the inside, and how the classes they're encouraged to take there can be actively retraumatizing. Many of these women, like Devon, rarely get visitors. Instead they talk to their loved ones over phone or video chat. But that can get expensive really quickly.

Because as Devon says, every single call and email costs money. Like, you actually have to pay per minute to use the tablet. And it's like 50% off in that potwiler to send a text message. Like, you get it. It's just a pain in the ass. Like, really? Like, you guys get plenty of money. You don't need to squeeze every drop out of us. Like, just stupid.

Right. 15 cents per text. It adds up. There are private companies that make a killing this way. Over the last couple years, I've spent more than $5,000 on jail and prison calls and messages. With everything that's going on behind the walls at Tutwiler, most of these women have one thing they look forward to more than anything else. Perole. A shot at getting out early.

Since Devon has a good record in prison, her release date was moved up to April 2024. She would serve six and a half years, but if she got parole, she could be out even sooner. So last summer, Devon started getting ready to make her case for freedom. Devon had a parole hearing scheduled for the summer of 2022. It was a moment of hope for her, that after almost half a decade behind bars, she might be able to make it out of Alabama and go home to her family, to her daughter. About a month before the hearing,

Devon met with her parole officer and she told me it went really well. That her parole officer told her she was the second person to make her cry in her whole career. How likely does she think it is that you'll get for all? Well, she said, you know, based on the information I told her based on everything, you know,

just me, my character, what I've been doing, I've been doing other things, I've been being the hangar's trouble. She said, if they look at what's on the paper and they take what her notes say, what they are, she says that she thinks that I should get it in a bottle. And that will be enough for some reason it's like a yellow violent charge, anything like the automatic airlock will be after protective society. Supposedly, parole is about mercy, about recognizing when someone's been rehabilitated and letting them out under supervision to rejoin society.

But that's not how it's been in Alabama. If you're convicted of a violent crime, like Devon, you have little chance of getting out, even if your case is complicated, and even if you've been a model prisoner. Even so, Devon's friends and family were optimistic, and as her parole hearing approached, they were rooting for her hard. If this went well, Devon could finally escape this nightmare. Many of her family members wrote letters of support to the parole board. Her best friend Kira, who she met in high school, really wanted to be there in person. But she lives in Florida now and couldn't afford the

plane ticket. And there's no online version of the hearing. So Kira also wrote in. At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic. So I basically just gave them a little background on how I saw things and who she is and how far she's come since it all started happening and what she's done to try to prepare herself to be out. She read part of that letter to me one of the times we talked. Dev and Gray is what I consider to be my sister. The circumstances of this case are not easy to digest for me. For one thing, there were people aware that the abuse was going on for the entirety of

their relationship. I find that disturbing. On the other hand, I understand that there are other ways that the situation could have ended without the loss of life. There's always another way, but when there are bullets flying past your face within a place you call home, those other ways aren't always immediately available to you, especially when your own child is being put in harm's way. John's mom Christine submitted a letter to, but not in favor of Devon.

The only reason the woman got manslaughter is because we allowed him. And the the a told me she would get straight 10 years. And that's all shit because it's been five years. And now they want to grow up. In her letter, Christine wrote that John was a father, brother, uncle, and friend. She argued that Devon had every opportunity to leave him and was unfairly playing the quote, self-defense card. If Christine got her way, Devon would be forced to stay in Tut Wiler.

The parole board is supposed to consider all of this. Letters of support and opposition. Devon's behavior in prison, the classes she's taken, her interview with the Pearl Officer, she felt like she had enough to sway them in her direction. Anant Chila was planning to be at the hearing to show support, which would look really good to the Pearl Board. A member of the victims' family family taking Devon's side. But the truth is the board is hard to win over. They have a lot of power and they don't really

answer to anyone. These days they're not even following the guidelines that tell them who's most likely to reoffend and who should get out. You need a board member to tell you why they vote yes and why they vote no. Cam Ward is the director of the Alabama Bureau of Pardons and Perl. He's a former legislator who oversees re-angie programs for people coming out of Alabama prisons. He doesn't get to make decisions on who gets parole though. That board is appointed separately, also by the governor.

We tried to get an interview with the members of the board, but they wouldn't talk. Cam was the next best thing. As a legislator, he was known as a reformer of Alabama's troubled criminal legal system, so a lot of people were excited when he got the position. Today, he oversees the team that puts together data for the parole board. Data that is supposed to help the board determine whether or not a person goes free. They call it a risk assessment, and our senior producer, Kristen, asked him about it. A risk assessment is based upon the things you've done the inside of correct yourself.

In fractions, or did you get a certificate, how many certificates, length of stay, underlying crime, it's part of, it's one of the risk assessment tools, but they look a lot at what you've done since you've been on the inside. Yeah, it seems like there are a lot of folks who are doing good on the inside, taking classes, they're not getting in fights,

and they're still not getting off. Right, and that goes back to, it's not the risk assessment, it's the discretion of the board. And that's, you know, this is their discretion. Under the statute, they have that complete discretion. They have that complete discretion. As in, camward, the reformer actually has very little influence over the board.

According to Alabama law, the actual decision of who gets released is entirely up to them. At the time of Devon's hearing, the board was comprised of three people, all with a background in law enforcement. A former state trooper, a former prosecutor, and a former probation officer. Not generally the kind of folks who want to see people get out of prison early. And for the most part, they don't get out. Cam will be the first one to tell you the numbers are low. The board isn't following the guidelines,

the vast majority of the time. There's a grant rate to date in Alabama of 9% for males. In females, you've got more of a grant rate of 32% overall. And they keep getting lower. The summer of Devon's parole hearing, the ACLU issued a report showing the combined parole grant rate in the state dropped to just 11%. The lowest level on record, despite persistent overcrowding in Alabama's prisons. We asked Cam why he thought the numbers had dropped so dramatically.

What I would suggest is, actually, what I'll start it at was the Jimmy Lee Spencer case. In 2018, an Alabama inmate named Jimi Spencer was released on parole. And just eight months later, he committed a triple murder. He killed two women and a child. Spencer's lawyers said he was not mentally competent because of an intellectual disability, but Alabama put him on death row.

And after he committed the crime, the parole board cracked down hard. And that's what the impetus was. Now, that's kind of typical in every state I've seen on criminal justice. The one jump out at your case and let's throw them all out and start over stuff. Every time I talked to someone about the parole situation in Alabama, Jimmy Spencer's name came up. It was a sea-change moment. Before you had a decent shot at getting out on parole, afterwards, it became nearly impossible.

So Devon was up against really tough odds. This episode is brought to you by Post It Brand. Post It Brand helps people get ideas out of their head and out into the world. They believe there's power in writing it down, since it's the spark of something bigger. It can be so easy to lose track of all the little to-dos we set for ourselves throughout the day, but that's where Post-It's Super Sticky Notes come in. They help you get it out of your head and get it done. Post-It's Super Sticky Notes feature two times the sticking power to ensure your message stays put. For busy parents or just anyone who has a ton to remember, post it notes are there to help make it easier. 85% of parents believe you're more likely to achieve a goal if you write it down. Plus check out the latest post it 100% recycled paper super sticky notes with two times the sticking power. Both the notes and the packaging are made from 100% recycled paper.

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and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Let therapy be your map with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash BlindPlee today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-l-p dot com slash blind plea. On the day of her parole hearing in July, I came down with COVID, so Kristen went instead.

It was one of those hot and sticky days in Alabama. Kristen described the hearing room as sterile, with chairs all lined up in rows. We do sit in the room quietly as they make the decision. And then they want to have food decisions. Okay? Of course we do ask no plotting, no outbursts or any more than that when they announce the decisions.

The waiting room was packed. The schedule for the day was displayed on a TV mounted to the wall. People were getting situated and she went to sign in. It was like the DMV, but with impossibly larger stakes. Purgatory. Okay, your first name is? Oh, Kristen K. R. I. S. T. E. One of the first people who greeted her was named Martha, a retired teacher who works

the reception. Kristen asked her if anyone else was there for Devin's hearing. We do have some people here. No, what eat? Hold on. I know they're supposed to. Hold on. Let me check.

Incarcerated people don't get to attend their own hearings, but anyone can show up to support them. Often it's family members, friends, or lawyers, people deeply connected to these cases, who will plead to get their loved ones or clients home. On the flip side, people will also show up to demand that someone serves out their full sentence. Devon's bench was thin, since her family and friends couldn't make it.

Her dad wanted to be there in person, but he was consumed with taking care of Devon's daughter. And her sister Simone had a newborn in Baltimore. As for her allies in Alabama, John's dad Henry's health had declined and he could barely walk. So the only chance Devon had, at someone speaking on her behalf

was Aunt Sheila. We have one person that you sit here. Nobody else is standing in. Do you know if they're supposed to be here? People are supposed to be here, but things change, you know. What do you have there? I gave Sheila a call and it turns out she was sick and worried about COVID exposure. She wasn't coming. So not a single person was there to speak for Devon.

It wasn't long before Devon's case came up and Kristen got ushered into the hearing room. It's standard protocol for members of the press to introduce themselves to the board. Hello. Good morning. Good morning. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing well. Yeah, my name is Duane Spurlock and I'm Darryl Olson.

Hi, Darryl. Hi, Duane. How are you doing? What's your name? My name is Kristen. That day, only two of the three board members were making decisions. Darryl Littleton, a former state trooper, and Duane Spurlock, a former probation officer.

The board only requires two votes to make a decision. We're ready to go. OK, the board is here today on the case of Devin Gray, who has served me a sentence of 180 months for manslaughter. This is normally where Devin's supporters would get a chance to speak. But... We have no support testimony here today in the boardroom, so we do have protests, so we'll have our first testimony or protest.

There were two people slated to speak in opposition to Devon's release. The first was a woman with an organization called Vocal, Victims of Crime and Lignancy. She was there speaking on behalf of Christine and the Shelby County DA's office. Weirdly enough, she started out by acknowledging that Devon was a survivor of domestic violence. This case was a horrible case.

It wasn't a domestic violence case. She said that he had been her and be her and be her The state allowed the defendant this is reading from the defendant the de-as letter the state allowed the defendant to plead guilty abilitantly to manslaughter So even though Mrs. Gray was allowed to plead guilty to manslaughter So even though Mrs. Gray was allowed to keep guilty demands for the fact remains that Mrs. Gray made a decision to and did take the life of John Faints. She followed up by saying that there's no excuse for what Devon did.

Human life is sacred, special thing, the foundations of our justice system functions on this premise. It is, it is why we have stricter punishments for taking a human life. You know, if she did say that it was a, oh, we asked it to not put back from time level. She asked the parole board to make Devon serve out her maximum time. The other person speaking out against Devon's release was a woman from the Attorney General's Office. She was less poetic. In the green, I built a manslaughter from shooting dead of Mary Walsh,

AKA Henry Bans. She was innocent. One thing jumped out to me as I was listening to Kristen's recordings from the hearing. The testimony these women offered against Devon was riddled with inaccuracies. Some tiny, some much more significant. The first woman called Devon Mrs. Gray before correcting herself. She also claimed Devon said she waited until John started snoring to shoot him, which

is nowhere in the court transcripts, seems to have come from Christine's letter, and makes Devon's shooting of John seem worse. The second woman who spoke didn't even know John's name. She called him Henry. But this isn't a trial. There's no opportunity for anyone to object to their statements. And even if there was, there weren't any supporters of Devon there to do it. So things just moved along. Cam Ward told us that the Pearl Board reviews materials ahead of time. Letters, case files, prison records, and Pearl Officer interviews. There's no way for us to confirm how thorough they actually are, though.

This is their full-time job, but the board sees hundreds of cases every month. I'll start to make a motion for executive session on your material. Okay, I will do that. The board will go into executive session to review recent material that is provided to more and it will also be about. In Devin's case, they took a break to review new material which provided more and it also revealed a bomb. In Devin's case, they took a break to review new material. The forensics psychologist, Marianne Rosenzweig, had emailed her report on Devin's case to the board that week.

The report concluded that Miss Gray was an imminent fear of her life when she made the decision to kill Mr. Vance. And now her life was on the line once again. The board was about to make a decision that would determine whether she'd stay in prison or be freed. Kristen figured she was in for a long wait. But the board came back quicker than she was expecting. And she had a sinking feeling she already knew what they were going to say.

Back after five minutes. Forward heads voting to come out of session. Five minutes? Assuming the new material was Mary Ann's report that was 26 pages full of important information to review. With that kind of speed, it felt like their answer had already been determined. A forwarding vote the dead in the grey case was a little too not had boated to deny the pearl in this case, and there will be no further set-off dates.

That means no more opportunities for Pearl. Devon's release date was set for two years out. She was going to serve her full sentence minus good time. And just like that, it was on to the next case. The officer on duty let Kristen know. There are children coming in and an action. Okay, can I stay? Because you don't know what's going to be saved. Oh, but you allow it, but you discourage it. You can't prohibit it. But we discourage it. Gotcha. Oh, but you allow it, but you discourage it. You can't prohibit it, but we discourage it.

Gotcha. Those kids are the siblings of Eric Robertson, who was put away at age 16 for an armed robbery. No one was hurt, but a decade and a half later, he's still locked up. Eric's parole hearing was grouped with four other cases, all men, all denied parole. This time, the board took less than 15 minutes for all four. Their families were devastated. Kristen talked to Eric's mom and his sister after his hearing. They haven't given him an opportunity to see what he's going to do in life.

I mean, if he'd go in as a child and the system is raising him to become an adult, he's been an adult for a while and the system still has him. What are they going to turn him loose and let him become? He has to protect himself as well because my brother got brutally stabbed in there. They didn't say anything about that. He was in ICU for a year and nobody said anything about him being hurt or trauma. We had the call up there for months to find out about my brother. Nobody called us, told us about anything.

It was up to the family to find out. But they didn't bring that up, the things that he's went through. I haven't hooked or touched my brother, since I was 10 years old. And up 26, going up 27, that's hard. And coming from, that's my protector. That's somebody that raised me. And we have younger siblings that then lost

the smaller brothers. So this right here is not getting it. We got people that love him, that's fighting for him, that's rooting. We got stuff in place for my brother. We ready for him to come home. He definitely has a support system. ready for him to come home. Like I said earlier, someone dies in Alabama prisons almost every day.

Many others get hurt inside, but families say they often don't get any information about that. They are totally kept in the dark. Like Devon, Eric Robertson has a solid support system ready to welcome him home. Yet he's one of thousands being denied parole against the system's own guidelines, away from his family stuck inside.

Meanwhile, Devon's friends and family were home, waiting to hear the outcome of her hearing. Kristen called Devon's friends and family were home, waiting to hear the outcome of her hearing, Kristen called Devon's sister Simone in Baltimore. Oh, I didn't know if you had gotten any news about the parole hearing. No, I have. Okay, well, you probably want to talk to your sister, right? I don't want to give you any updates. I know Devon wanted to hear from your grandma instead of

so Because I was at the parole hearing yesterday. Yeah They go already Do you want me to tell you? Yeah, I do Yeah, she didn't get it No, I do. Yeah, she didn't get it. No more, I don't know. Simone sounded so defeated. She really thought Devon had a chance.

There's no reasoning why she shouldn't have been granted that. It's not like she killed them just because. That's just crazy to me. We talked to Devon's best friend Kira a week later. She wasn't a surprise about what went down. It really put things into perspective for me because it's like they do this on a regular basis. It's a job for them.

I don't know that they still have that ability to see the cases in front of them and really weigh the situation. So I'm not surprised it took them five minutes. I wish they still had the ability to actually review the humanity in the case, but I'm not surprised that they can't for their, they choose not to. And Devon, of course, was pretty upset. I didn't hear from her for a week. Eventually, she messaged me saying,

I've been a little in my feels about it. We finally caught up a month after the hearing, and by that time, Devon had found a way to accept the decision. The officer, the shift commander here, Sergeant Lutiland, he told me, and then yesterday, or the day before yesterday, whatever day was, I got an official letter and they told me why that I had gotten denied and it said because of my current charge. And I guess Christine opposed it. So they had to go with what she wanted and since she opposed it they had to honor I guess what she wanted so that's so for even. Really the board didn't have to honor what

Christine wanted though clearly her statements had sway. I mean I really didn't think that they would take her word as anything credible, but it's okay, you know, everything happens, you know, for a reason. I guess it wasn't my time or whatever, so yeah, it's cool. Devon tried to tell herself it was cool. She went with the flow like she always does. But other people on the inside were getting furious about the dire situation around parole. In August 2022, the guidelines recommended 82% of inmates under consideration should be released.

But the actual grant rate, just 6%, and it would fall even further from there. In September, protests broke out across Alabama prisons, including at Tutwiler. You're not in there to beat them. You're in there to help them. So even if I got something, say, you're out to them, I can't talk about the people.

I don't have them, go now, like that. I got some of them. Talk about the people. I don't have them, but I don't have them. I got two nephews in there. One been in there, he was eight, 15. He's been in there, 15 years. And I think it's wrong. He should be out right now. Thousands of inmates participated in a work stoppage, meaning they stopped providing the cheap or unpaid labor

for cooking, cleaning, and maintenance at the prison to try to get Alabama to pay attention. An activist outside the prison staged rallies in solidarity with them. Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Freedom! Activist issued a list of official demands to the state. They wanted oversight for the Pearl Board, mandatory parole criteria the board would be required to follow, and for Alabama to get rid of life without parole sentences, among other things. I spoke with Juan Attorney, Terry Pieden, who's actually suing the parole board right now, for how few people they're letting out of prison. In the suit, Pied and says that he was not notified about three of his client's parole hearings as he should have been by state statute.

He says it's been next to impossible to get anyone out the last few years. You know, it's been many times down there in Alabama where I'm in the parole board and everybody in the room is shaking their head and inagreance with me, right? Even the victim's advocates are pulling me to the side as I'm walking out of the room and say, you know, you did a damn good job.

And then my client just got hit with a five year set off and everybody in the room knows this person really deserves another chance. Terry and other activists allege the parole board is working to deny Pearl to as many people as possible so that Alabama can justify building new prisons to the tune of billions of dollars. Cam Ward said that wasn't the case, but again, we weren't able to talk to any of the actual Pearl Board members to get insight into why they make the determinations they make. In the Alabama Pearl system, years of people's lives get decided in minutes, decisions get made behind closed doors,

and it's the same at Tutwiler. So much goes unseen. That's why we knew we had to get in to see Devon. We were about to try one more time to get behind those prison walls and see her face to face. It's been 11 years since Bruce Cachera was shot point-blank outside of an apartment complex in New Orleans East, as he searched for an address that doesn't exist. When he was first killed, Launforce met quickly chalked it all up to him being in the wrong

place at the wrong time. But I had to ask, is that really what happened? I'm Julia DeAmbra, the host of the investigative series Counter-Clock, and for season 5, I'm digging deeper into Bruce's case than anyone has ever dug before. The answers may be right in front of us if we know where to look, or who to look at. You find out who benefit from his decimals, and that's where you start looking at. You can binge all 14 episodes of Counter-Clock Season 5 right now wherever you listen to podcasts. Right now, wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, it's me, Sam B. And it's no secret, I'm pro-choice. Yes, that one, but also others. Cause I'm not just pro-choice, I'm pro-choice says, those crazy life-altering decisions that shift our life path and bring us to where we are today. My next choice, starting this new podcast with Lemonada Media called Choice Words, where I interview people I admire

about the biggest decisions they've made in their lives. Choice Words is out now wherever you get your podcasts. There's a bunch of reasons it's been pretty much impossible for anyone close to Devon to get into TETWILOR. First, it was COVID. Devon got to TETWILOR in November 2020. Then, it was the arcane process of getting approved for a visit.

Thank you, Mom. You're the first and last name. You're driving a silence number. You're social security number. You're a date of birth. And the relationship that you have to the person. And so her family submitted their information. And it seems like everybody has mysteriously

the paperwork just doesn't, and the work's supposed to. Even Aunt Sheila couldn't get approved. She used to come see me once a week in Shelby County. But now that she's, you know, visitation like you have to like have like a presidential invitation come in here. Pretty much the only people we knew were getting in were lawyers. So we started asking around to see if they had any ideas. You got the know, we're right. Oh hi Richard, I wasn't expecting you to pick up. been asking around to see if they had any ideas.

We connected with Richard Rice, the civil rights attorney who was a rock star at winning I wanted to ask the story we're doing is about Devon Gray who's incarcerated at Julia Tutwiler and we've had real issues being allowed to get into that prison. Have you been in that prison at all? No, I haven't been in that prison, but one of my clients is there, and they must have been a killer. What I will say is that I'm intending to set up an in-person legal visit with Miss Keller and typically I have been able to take someone with me whenever I want to. I just need to put their name down on the list, make sure they have a state issued ID. He told us he could take anyone

inside, even journalists, and that he would be willing to take us into top wiler with him, no problem. If we select a date, I'll go ahead and and notify the prison that we want to visit, and let them know who I'm bringing with me. And just saying that you're one of my assistants. Since I had already been denied an official visit, our team decided to send Kristen.

And so, a month later, after a six hour flight from Los Angeles, she was in the car with Richard. Hello. Driving an hour and a half from Birmingham to Julia Tutwiler Women's Prison in Wautomka. This was on the same trip, the same day, actually, that Andy and I were denied at the prison door. Like I said earlier, we really were trying

all possible options. Tell me again, I'm your legal assistant. That's right. Today is my legal assistant. And you know, you can be documenting the conversation. Tell me again, I'm your legal assistant. That's right. Today is my legal assistant. And you know, you're going to be documenting the conversation. Okay. So that we, you know, have co-pies notes when we go back to the office to do our legal strategy in the way.

Where did I go to law school? We don't have to go to law school. Oh, okay, perfect. They get to topwiler and things seem to be going smoothly. Here, hold it up. Richard writes, it's my assistant. Kristen, here we have our ideas. Earlier to see our stuff in the tella and Devin Gray. The prison guards check their stuff and tell them they can't bring cell phones inside, even

as a legal team. So Kristen runs out to the car to get her audio recorder. They come back in and wait for their names to be called. And when their stuff goes through a security check again, sure enough it works. The recorder is in. We met for me with it, but I was just going to transfer it up. So I was tight. I'm going to be a mom and a... The prison has several dorms.

Devon lives in the annex, which is in a separate building behind the prison, along with Richard's client, Stephanie Keller. They go to talk to Stephanie first and spend about an hour with her. She's in Tottweiler for killing her husband, who was a police officer. According to her, he was also abusive, and one day he threatened her with his duty pistol. She says they wrestled for the gun, it went off, and she went to prison for manslaughter.

Richard was helping her with an appeal. Afterwards, they go to another room to wait for Devon. They wait, and they wait. It's loud and uncomfortable. Those are slamming guards are yelling across the prison. One hour passes, then two. I know there was going to be a prayer. I turned it on.

I had good feeling about it. The guards say they saw Devon in the library, but now no one can find her, which seems weird for a prison. They suggest maybe Kristen and Richard can come back another time. Then they suggest a video visit, which seems bizarre given that they're saying they don't know where she is. Besides, we didn't come all this way to talk to Devon through a screen.

And so Kristen and Richard continued to wait, sending the message to the guards were not going anywhere. The guards are shuffling past the door and they seem to become increasingly frazzled. Kristen and Richard are keeping tabs on what's happening. One guard tells Richard that they're handling a situation outside the prison. That situation, of course, is me. Our audio engineer and DNI are in the process of almost getting arrested outside. I mean, I just think the authenticity of all the re-act is that I don't get a lot of action

or something like that happens. I probably want to be able to try to flex there, but they can, even if it's unnecessary, and that's just difficult to walk for a trip. and so as our debacle is getting settled outside, it's feeling like they might not meet Devon in person after all. They arrived at the prison around noon, and now it's approaching 4pm. But just as all hope is about to be lost, you can hear Kristen gasp in the tape. She peeks outside the room and guess who it is. I mean, you can't have you on the Christmas set last night. Last night. Last night. Last night.

Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night.

Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night.

Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. Last night. I was told I was gonna see you guys like one ish and it's four that's the only thing that I'm like, okay They said you were in the library I was like kind of hours talking to Devon on the phone, but it was important to our team that we spoke to her in person. There's something about meeting someone in the flesh, something about witnessing Devon's body language, feeling her presence, her authenticity. Kristen and Richard spoke with Devon for a little over an hour that day.

They talked about everything from the night of the shooting to Devon's favorite music, and why she wanted to talk to us in the first place. She was emotional and reflective. She shed a lot of tears. Oh, what I told Liz, like I really wanted Sean to line up to domestic violence because I understand, you know, that helped me to think with the sexual assault and the harassment stuff. I understand that that's very traumatic, but the domestic violence is like all of that to get the hurt and the ball. And then you also have to do like a verbal, mental, emotional abuse. Sometimes I don't even think about the scars, the chocolate body is just the words he said to me, you know?

And I want, if I could at least tell my story or give somebody, like their story, spoken back to them, that maybe they'll be brave enough to do what I didn't do, or they'll see the signs, and they'll go to walk away, and don't keep. Devon told me that the very first time we spoke. She said she wanted to share her story, not for herself, but for others, to try to help somebody who might still be living with abuse. Her relationship with John stole half a decade of her life. Incarceration stole another half. Being locked up has been dehumanizing, miserable, and lonely for Devon. But she's found a way forward, not because of the system, but in spite of it. Yeah, it was shitty and really scary and different at the heart, but it also helps me like

peel back layers I didn't know I had and find a voice I didn't know I had. The amount of effort it takes just to survive prison is intense. The isolation, the shitty food, the weaponized incompetence of the bureaucracy, it all works together to create this tangible sense of despair. Many people on the inside I talk to are at their wit's end. So for Devon to somehow find the silver lining in it all, it's just more evidence that she's one of the most resilient people I've ever met. But then, I guess I haven't met her. After our visit to Tutwiler, I felt awful that we had tried so hard for a special visit

because I didn't want to cause any problems for her. But when I talked to Devon afterwards, she just laughed it off. But it's okay, I'm not. I'm not bad. I think it's kind of cool that you were so persistent to say, that's kind of nice. I had really wanted to meet Devon that day.

Looking back, I think all my frustration with how I've seen prisons treat domestic abuse survivors made me almost desperate to get in, to the point where I wasn't thinking clearly. It was one of those moments as a journalist that you regret, wishing you had done it differently. But honestly, who cares about me? I got to go home at the end of that trip

and spend time with my friends and family. But what about Devon's family, her daughter, and the generational consequences of keeping all these people locked up? For survivors like Devon, who are unlikely to re-offend, keeping her inside doesn't seem to be keeping anyone outside any safer. Devon's case wasn't like the Jimmy Spencer case,

not at all. Yet Alabama was treating everyone the same. I think our criminal legal system is a perfect encapsulation of our country at large, supposedly a fair and just democracy, but behind closed doors, it's another story. Next time on Blind Plei, it's the five-year anniversary of the shooting and John is on Devon's mind. It's just like, I loved him so much and I know that sounds crazy, but I did. I loved him so much.

It hurts my feelings and I have to do that. You know? As Devon continues to process her feelings, there is a new development. She actually gets good news behind bars. I'm so ready. It's ridiculous. I'm so ready. Gosh. It's been a long time, game, Gavin. Yeah. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse, use a safe computer and contact

the National Domestic Violence Hotline at thehotline.org or call 1-800-799-7233. There is more blind plea Ple with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like an interview with activists Dion Caldwell about leading the protests against prisons and perils in Alabama. Subscribe now in Apple Podcasts. Blind Ple is a production of Lemonada Media. I'm your host, Liz Flock. This episode was produced by Kristen LaPour and Tony

Williams. Hannah Boomerchein and Rachel Pilgrim are also our producers. Story editing by Martina Abraham's Alinda. Mix, music and sound design by Andy Kristen's daughter with additional mixing and engineering from Ivan Kurayev. Naomi Barr is our fact checker. Jaila Everett is our production intern. Reporting help from Priscilla Alibi. Jackie Dancicker is our vice president of Narrative Content. Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles-Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer, Yvoke Media, and Sabrina Mirage Naim, and myself, Liz Flock. This series was co-created with a Voke Media and presented by Margaret Kasey Foundation. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review.

Follow me at Liz Flock, and for more stories of women and self-defense, check out my book, The Furies, from Harper Books, available for pre-order now. Find Lemonada at Lemonada Media across all social platforms and follow Blind PLEE wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime Membership. Thanks so much for listening. Join me, V-Sphere, your podcasting bestie on V-Interesting from Lemonada Media. We'll tackle today's chaotic world with optimism as we go beyond the headlines. From politics to human rights to business and tech, we'll break down what you need to know to become the most interesting person in any room.

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