Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Andrew Callaghan

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, I'm as excited about this episode as I've been in a long time. This guy I admire a lot. He's got a comedy team with Hunter Biden. You don't tip it in and out? I do. What, you tipping it in and out? Yeah, they have to wear those hats. You know what that feels like?

Starting point is 00:00:13 That's sweeping the internet right now. No, he's got a YouTube channel. Channel 5. Channel 5 live worldwide, Hollywood, and Vibe. And we don't fuck what cost you. Channel 5, he has another YouTube channel called All Gas, No Breaks. Everybody feel like that. Which apparently bought back.

Starting point is 00:00:30 from who knows who. Doing things media. Anything else you got that's popping? No, I think I pretty much covers it. So it's Andrew Callahan, it's my point. Thanks for having me. Of course, bro. So as somebody who's way older than you,

Starting point is 00:00:43 I'm very excited about what you do because it's like homemade. And I would like to talk to you about the, obviously the huge downside of everything being homemade. The huge toll, which is a lot of your blocks, but also, like, what was your plan? Because now you have 3 million followers on Channel 5 or subs, whatever you want to call it.

Starting point is 00:01:07 Like, what did you think was going to happen? Well, at the very beginning, I went to school for journalism and I wanted to be a traditional, like, newspaper reporter or just work for maybe, like, Vice or somewhere cool. By the time I graduated college, there was no media jobs left. Like, probably out of my class of 100 people in journalism school, 10 people had jobs, and those jobs were, like, 45K a year working at TV stations.

Starting point is 00:01:30 And were they like hooked up? No, it was like 45K a year. I'm saying were the kids hooked up? How'd they get those jobs? Just through like random like job feeder programs. Oh, okay. But they were in like shithole second rate cities because the company was called gray media

Starting point is 00:01:43 that everyone was getting jobs with. And they exclusively had stations in the worst cities imaginable. Like Elk City, Oklahoma, Panama City, Beach, Florida, Lansing, Michigan. It was like everywhere on the map that has less than 100,000 people, gray media controls the media market.

Starting point is 00:01:57 Fantastic. So I wanted to just do my own thing and not have to do that. Started hitchhiking around the country and then convinced a company to buy me in an RV and then got new... So hitchhiking, you have a camera. Yeah. Do you have a crew? Yeah, it's like me and one other dude. The first concept for all gas, no brakes, was a hitchhiking road show where it would be like taxi cab confessions, except the person being interviewed is the guy who picks us up off the side of the road.

Starting point is 00:02:22 Yeah. But then we realized that was just like equipment-wise so hard to do. because it's like rigging a GoPro to the mirror and shit. You will drive us. That's cool. Okay, can we take 15 minutes and rig your car? Yeah. It's a nightmare.

Starting point is 00:02:34 That's exactly what it was. And we didn't know how to rig anything. So we're like trying to use a suction mount. We don't know how to do it. Can you help us rig your car for our content? So we tried to put like these suction mounts on the hood of the car and use like a road lab mic to put in the guy's pocket and be like, no, so where are you from? And he's like, I don't like this anymore.

Starting point is 00:02:50 I want to drop you guys off. So an RV was like the upgraded version of the hitchhiking model. Okay, so then what happens? Well, I just made like a comedic road show going to like conventions and different shit. And then gradually as the world got serious around 2020, protests, pandemic and everything, I started covering that as an extension of the comedy show.

Starting point is 00:03:08 It's so funny, because I feel like I knew about you before that. I must have been early to it or something. I mean, I had started making videos in 2018 in December. Okay. So you might have seen like my New Orleans street interviews where I was like asking people their deepest darkest secret. That was like my college side hustle that I would do after work,

Starting point is 00:03:24 because I used to work in the French Quarter everybody be live on berber okay but like no you pretty much would have saw me in 2020 unless you in ferguson and all that shit it was in minneapolis or minneapolis was like before my time okay all right it was minneapolis but i yeah i felt like i knew you by then um okay and then do you have an approach for interviews because it seems like you just it seems like if i if i thought you were cynical i would think you were giving them enough rope to hang themselves do you know what I mean right but But it seemed because I, the sense I get is that you're genuinely curious and genuinely empathetic. Totally.

Starting point is 00:04:03 And that's true. I think so, yeah. And so do you, how, will you, do you ever find yourself going like, like, fucking, you got to fucking shut up? Yeah, all the time. It's kind of my biggest battle is pushing through that. But sometimes I give them the rope, but I really just give them the air time. Yeah. I just kind of, I'm a passive listener, but also I do these things where I call it the toddler nod.

Starting point is 00:04:24 watch you're not like edged you're not like really edging them on too hard where you're like fuck yeah man keep going but you're not judging them you're just kind of giving them the space to speak their mind you've heard the thing that that that um FBI pro he was a negotiator who said the key with negotiating with terrorists is just read them back what they've said and they're like and most of the time they just drop the problem at that they stop the yeah they're like you just go, if I understand you correctly, you're mad that this, the government is doing this to your family, and they're like, thank you, and that it ends. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:01 And I feel like there's a form of that that you do. I think it's called the mirroring technique a little bit. You can get into trouble doing that sometimes. So, for example, if someone is like a super hardcore Holocaust denier, I'm not going to fully mirror them because that'd be disingenuous, you know, but I will allow them to finish their train of thought. Even though you are a Holocaust denier, you don't want to. Be disingenuous.

Starting point is 00:05:23 Yeah, because if I'm like, dude, you're so right. It didn't happen at all. Yeah. Hollywood production. Uh-huh. Then they, like, see my work after. They'd be like, that guy was lying to me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:31 So it's kind of like, if they take it too far, you can't do the mirroring thing. But it's funny you mention law enforcement because cops have kind of a similar job to me. You know, and it's funny because I'm not the most pro cop guy. Right. But they show up where it's popping at. Do the who, what, when, where, why. Speak to the person that's the most passionate, diagnosis, assess, and report. So, like, I feel like, when you go up the chain of law enforcement interrogation,

Starting point is 00:05:51 interrogation you're basically just getting to better and better journalists yeah you get to like the woodward merston like you get that that's like the good cop back cop of like yeah so he like one guy slams the door the other guy comes and like look he's crazy yeah now if you give it to me straight yeah that's funny the um i wanted to talk about how you withhold judgment on your subjects it's not withholding i don't have it i don't have judgment on the subjects everyone's like you but You know, you're an intelligent guy. I mean, you have a political opinion. I know you're more left than right.

Starting point is 00:06:26 You're more, you're, you believe in a social safety net. You believe in like basically classic, either democratic or socialist somewhere, right? If somebody's just, you just, there's disagreeing and there's also like, this person's dead wrong. Yeah. Do you, do you try to have equal time within, within packages? Well, it just depends because, like, let's say I'm talking to a conspiracy theorist, right? Someone, like, a flat earth or someone who's, like, really out there. I know that there's a thread of truth that pushed them off the edge.

Starting point is 00:07:05 For example, the flat earthers. The earth is not flat. However, one thing they'll say is they're like, you know. Also, fuck you. They'll say, like, for example, right? It is true that perhaps to win the Cold War in some way or gained advantage over the Soviets there may have been some added production value

Starting point is 00:07:27 in the moon landing video. Oh, okay, so is that where people get that from? Yeah, it's possible. I'm not saying we didn't go to the moon, but it's possible that the video and stuff like that was part of a concerted effort to beat the Soviets in the arms race. Okay, you're open to that idea.

Starting point is 00:07:42 That's not beyond the pale for you. Right, so then that's something I could probably connect with a flat earth on is what else did we do during the Cold War to make it seem like we had a leg up over the Soviets? Were we installing dictators and countries that wanted to make health care affordable? Okay. Then they go. Then they start saying nonsense.

Starting point is 00:08:00 Well, they say, well, you know who was behind the moon landing is NASA. And you know who controls NASA, right? Israel. Okay, yeah. I figured. Okay. You know that this person pretty much without a shadow of a doubt, even in the modern definition of shadow and doubt is wrong.

Starting point is 00:08:21 But you also know this is about to be entertaining. And also I don't know that their soul is like rotten or if they're like malicious. So that's why I'm not withholding judgment of them as a person. However, I'm definitely judging their informational like literacy skills. I'm definitely thinking you don't understand how to differentiate between real information and post made on Facebook by a crazy man.

Starting point is 00:08:46 How much patience do you have for that, though? A lot of patience. A lot of patience. A lot of patience. You gave the trouble on that. I'm also entertained because it's like, wow, I really like to know how people got there. Because I'm a guy that likes to do alternative research and look into things.

Starting point is 00:09:00 You know, I'm, yeah. So when I'm meeting someone, I'm like, how the fuck did that happen? Yeah, okay. And then do you go, this is where I get into like, okay, is he giving them enough rope? meaning at a certain point it becomes entertaining yeah right it like once someone's

Starting point is 00:09:19 you're like oh this is a maniac you know if you can take a little bit of maniac and then it becomes nonsense and you have to cut away yes so that's where when you're you're editing kind of on the fly yeah well I mean I just like people too

Starting point is 00:09:33 and I connect with them but I try not to go to I don't do ambush interviews anymore meaning like I am talking to somebody and letting them say the dumbest shit ever so that I can put it out and people will be like what an idiot. How do you get around it? I just don't go to events where really

Starting point is 00:09:49 dumb people are at. Oh, okay. Or I don't want to say dumb. People have low informational literacy. Sure. I'm not going to different UFO events across the Southwest anymore. I would like to do it again for all gas, no breaks though, for sure. But as opposed to like weird people who don't know what the hell's going on.

Starting point is 00:10:06 Well, actually, as opposed to misinformed people for all gas 2.0, I'm just going to, like, do cool subcultural deep dives. Like, I'm going to the gathering of the juggalo's finally next week. I'm going to a-long time coming. I'm going to a punk festival called Skullfest in Pittsburgh, and then I'm going to these, like, I have a lot of cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, great.

Starting point is 00:10:24 You must think about exploitation a lot. Like, am I exposed? Because a lot of the people are fucked up. And meaning, like, either they're on drugs or they're drunk. I don't even, but now having said that, I don't think they're lying. Yeah. And where do you draw the line with that shit? Well, it's like every documentary of filmmaker that I look to as a different answer for that question.

Starting point is 00:10:44 Like, is it worth exploiting somebody? Is it worth talking to somebody that's in like a hopeless position if what they're telling you, you know, deliver some universal truth about that moment in time that's really important? If I interview someone who's hysterical at a crime scene, is that exploiting them in a time where they're really emotional, that they should be given space, or is that passion that they're producing important to deliver to people? And if I'm from the vehicle for that, that can be like meaningful. it depends one thing that i try to avoid is like hating on my younger self you know what i mean a lot of people get into this thing when they get older where they're like oh man when i was a kid i was a piece of shit like whenever i was interviewing people on acid at festivals are you on acid the first time you saw jesus yes i was 21 years old and you were on acid yourself probably half the time yeah and i

Starting point is 00:11:32 didn't feel bad about it at all would i do it again would i go back now as a 28 year old man to a party strip like 6th Street in Austin or Bourbon Street and go ask random people what's the freakyest shit you ever done no but I'm not going to pretend like you know I had some huge moral conflict about that that drove me into politics also didn't you do like a glory hole not long ago it must have been a long time no no no I don't mean like a glory no no I've never been in a glory hole in general I'm saying I don't think they exist I filmed Folsom Street Fair which had a piss pool to feel degrading at all there's a deliciousness to being degraded There was something I saw where you had a camera set up for, like, public confession, pretty recently.

Starting point is 00:12:13 That was at Super Chief Gallery in downtown L.A., and that was, like, a filmed confessional. I f***ed one of my friend's boyfriends. It wasn't a hidden camera. No, no, no, I know it was, but it was a film confessional, and it was like... That was like a return to form experiment. But I wasn't asking people. It was kind of sort of an experiment to talk about, like... I think they understood.

Starting point is 00:12:32 The things that people will say for attention. Oh, is that... Oh, got to, got it. The underlying thing is, like, people are willing to tell the world the worst thing they've ever done because the trade-off is like, we'll get attention for it, even though it's at the expense of me being ashamed for what I'm saying. Where are you on that as Americans? I mean, it seems like the younger someone is, the more willing to do it, they are. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's also, as I'm getting older, like, I'm just changing.

Starting point is 00:12:59 I'm becoming more mature. And the kind of things that I liked covering before, I have a hard time doing now. Okay. Well, what's your hierarchy of, I don't want to say importance, but like, I, you were somewhere quickly recently. I mean, by the way, I was going to tell you, you can't stay at nice hotels because the minute you do, you must only stay at like Motel 6th, like, yeah, one time I stayed at like the four seasons in Vegas, which is like, well, I did it for like a week and, you know, it didn't feel right. Well, also, because when you go back, it's going to be like hell. Yeah. You can, you just have to, like, wait until your 30th birthday or something. Not to mention, like, they treat you like shit when you're, you know, acquiring luxury services when you're a kid.

Starting point is 00:13:42 Like, I remember when I was 23, I tried to stay at this, like, super five-star hotel in Seattle, and they thought I was, like, some rich asshole with, like, wealthy parents, or they thought I was a credit card scammer. Right. So they would run my name and just treat me with, like, disdain. I can't rent a luxury car, a first-class seat. I can't buy a first-class ticket without people kind of shading me. Yeah. Now it's going away, but that's why I can't wait to be 30, and why I wish I had facial. hair. Keep out of it. Ageism is real. I can't, I can't imagine being like a 21 year old. You have no idea the respect I get. No, you know, no, you know, I mean, no, you, no, you never really get respect.

Starting point is 00:14:15 Fuck, I don't think. I, in my experience, you don't ever really get respect. So I'm not going to turn 40 and people like respect me? Sir, no. Why? Uh, because people, if, by the way, if you're staying, if you're in, like, first class or something. Yeah. People don't like you. People are just giving you the evil eye on the way in. Someone hit me with a bag of trash one time. And I was on her side. I'm sitting at first class. And she bopped me and I was like, I get it. Yeah. I totally get like the urge. Anyway, um, the, what I was going to say. Okay, so the hierarchy of importance. Where did you just go? You were somewhere like in the last 10 days where it was like on the ground quickly. Could have been Albuquerque. Could have been Hunter Biden interview. Well,

Starting point is 00:15:02 Hunter, but weren't you just in Tijuana? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty dangerous in Mexico. Or Albuquergue, just the pills thing. When is it incumbent upon us as a society to help people who can't help themselves? We've got to think of it in those terms. Otherwise, we're just stepping on our own dick. What's your hierarchy of importance? Well, I care about the drug crisis.

Starting point is 00:15:25 Immigration and homelessness is also important. A lot of it's informed by just the things I saw growing up between Seattle and Philadelphia. So, that kind of stuff too. But also, like, I'm relaunching all gas, no breaks. We're filming like a new episode every week so we can come out with an episode all the time. Like, we, our goal is to come out with an episode every week

Starting point is 00:15:42 in 2026 for all gas, no breaks. And for that particular show, I'm looking for a semi-return to form, like subculture deep dives, less politically motivated stuff. Like- Is that for your own sanity or- It's just for sanity and it's just like more fun for me. I like the idea of being able to do two things. Put my serious hat on and, you know, you know put this suit on and hit the RV like we just went to an adult baby gathering

Starting point is 00:16:06 fantastic yeah and it was just like a bunch of adults and you know it's pretty self-explanatory figure it out um uh and so do you find was the hunter biden thing were you surprised by how popular or were you kind of like disappointedly it was like very popular more popular but all your shit's very popular but it seemed a little more popular than most of your stuff were you a little disappointed by like how obvious it was. Which part? Like, oh, you want to hear about the drug addict. Yeah. Well, I was more disappointed by watching the mainstream news cycle just totally pick apart and misinterpret what Hunter was saying. In a more than three hour long, expletive-laden interview with podcaster Andrew Callahan, Hunter Biden lashes out at Democrats who he says

Starting point is 00:16:54 betrayed his father. It's a three and a half hour interview. We talked about addiction, so many different things. Like, and the only thing that they really combed from it was him saying fuck George Clooney and him explaining the difference chemically between crack and powdered cocaine. That's all you saw. And they also focused on the profanity. It was such a trip. Like, I'm sitting in Phoenix right after the adult baby gathering. Of course. I posted at six in the morning by 9 a.m. Ted Cruz, Naid Bukelly, Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Sean Hannity, Jesse Waters, Matt Walsh. They're all reporting on just specifically the crack cocaine. cocaine clip. And then their discourse is all shaming him for saying the F word. Yeah, even though Trump

Starting point is 00:17:34 had just said it three weeks before. Kelly and Conway was like, this potty mouth punk needs to stop smoking crack. And it's funny because that's exactly what Hunter Biden told me would happen. I didn't believe him. I'm like, dude, we're sitting here for three and a half hours. You're telling me they're going to take one specific thing from this and they're going to set the tone for the entire media cycle, both right and left. He's like, yeah. Because even what they call liberal media, CNN, MSNBC, I would call it, like basically centrist media. They're all also talking about profane tirade. So it's funny because like the tone gets set and everybody falls in line just out of ease

Starting point is 00:18:08 because these journalists are like, let's report it. Let's report about it in a way that's already being talked about. Okay, what you're doing, I think, is great. And it's there's no such thing as objectivity. It's your subjectivity, which I would argue is pretty broad and unbiased. not without by everyone's got bias right you i think you would say what your biases are i don't think you corner people on it so what i'm wondering about is how what how do you scale this up in terms of channel five any yeah like what do you what's the what's because obviously it's valuable

Starting point is 00:18:45 i don't think you're going to get less popular no so i'm wondering about is like what do you how do you get this because that with any news organization it just becomes they have they have have they have a footprint and infrastructure and they CNN can send people to Cairo and Dubai and fucking Shanghai and whatever yeah it you're paying out a pocket yeah one thing I had an interview with with Shane Smith who founded vice I asked him I was like whenever you're scaling up what are the biggest mistakes that you made because obviously vice went under yeah and he said we scaled up too quickly so we had something like 55 vice offices Singapore office Copenhagen office like

Starting point is 00:19:21 16 different offices in Europe offices in Africa and it's because you know people got so into the content, they were like, let's go everywhere. I'm trying to avoid that. So right now, I'm trying to get into the Mexican media market. So I have a team of correspondents there. Why Mexico? Well, because I speak fluent Spanish. Okay.

Starting point is 00:19:37 And I feel like I want to imagine Channel 5 is like some kind of virus spreading across the country. I want the outbreak of the contagion to be the United States. And we sort of spread in both directions across the world. Because we say Channel 5 worldwide. So it has to be a fluid thing. One day we'll have a news station in every city and country and I think that we'll overtake the global media market. But first, let's do Mexico.

Starting point is 00:20:03 Let's do Canada. By the way, I don't disagree with you. Think about if I did this conceptually, right? Up through Canada, through the Yukon territory, get some Alaskan coverage, take the now-dissolved Bering Sea Land Bridge over to Siberia, dominate the Siberian, Inuit media market, go down to South Korea because we'll probably have to jump over North Korea. And then Japan, mainland, China, finally make our way to the great country of Vietnam, and then take on Australia. You see what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:20:31 Bro, come on. Europe last. And no offense to the Europeans out there, but I'm not that interested by European culture and politics. We've got all the best elements of it here. How come? I don't know. Well, don't you think it's, but what I'm, clearly you think what you're doing is valuable. And clearly you think it's, it, or I think.

Starting point is 00:20:52 think it's somewhat civic minded why obviously it'll just be a preference of where to go but you're not going to be able to you're going to have to like you're going to have to trust a lot of people well at the risk of like sounding self-righteous here i'd prefer to give people airtime who historically haven't had access to much okay i don't mean like minorities in the united states i mean like people have never seen something like channel five in mexico what is an authentic Mexican all gas no brakes look like. That's something that people would like to see as opposed to like London. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's saturated. It's saturated and you know, we already have a lot of fans there. And I have nothing but love to the Europeans,

Starting point is 00:21:36 especially the Irishmen. Please. You know, but it's like I see that as they've got media pretty much covered over there. There's some amazing sort of channel five inspired interview shows out there already. Great. Okay. Well, let's do some blocks. Yeah. This is a an ad by better help. Look, how much more could I one man possibly say about mental health and therapy? Are you sick of it yet? I'm kind of sick of it. It's kind of my thing, but, you know, you want to have other things? Anyhow, you ever felt overwhelmed? How has that impacted your decision-making? These days, it feels like there's advice for everything. Cold plunges, gratitude journals. Shout out, that's a little too close to home. But how do you know what actually

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Starting point is 00:25:44 Sounds like a rhyme isn't a rhyme. Huell.com promo code, Neal. Well, the first thing I had, the thing that is crazy about you that I really related to was your drug horror story. Oh yeah. Your mushroom horror story, which I had a similar thing on, which I may have DMD, but I had a similar thing on 5MEO DMT. But please tell people your, uh, I can't remember the initials. Oh, HPPD. It's hallucinogen persisting perception disorder.

Starting point is 00:26:13 supposedly afflicts like one in every 20 psilocybin users. One in 20? Yeah, with a higher frequency in young users. Okay. So I think it has something to do with doing psychedelic drugs before your brain is fully developed. Age of 25, roughly. Yeah, and I grew up in Seattle mostly,

Starting point is 00:26:30 which has a super hardcore, like, fulxy acid and shroom scene. So I was smoking weed in eighth grade, getting into shrooms in ninth grade, and did, you know, actually a normal amount of shrooms in ninth grade, maybe an eighth. And then just since then, I've been afflicted by this strange visual disorder. Just so you do it one night, as you said, in one of the...

Starting point is 00:26:51 It was a fun trip. That's the thing. It wasn't a bad trip. Yeah. I just woke up with like visual snow, floaters, tracers, everything stationary appeared to move. And it was just, I mean, it's happening right now. Everywhere I looked, there's like intense visual snow.

Starting point is 00:27:03 This had started how long ago? Wow, it's crazy to think. It's been 14 years. It happened. More than half your life. Yeah. Half your life. Or more, given.

Starting point is 00:27:11 the fact that I can't remember anything before I was five. Actually, I remember 9-11. I was three, but that's about it. We don't have time for that. We don't have no time for that tangent. So since you're 14, you've got floaters, tracers, things are shaking, vibrating, moving, constantly. Yeah. Without, without any, if I do my shoulder, it's not, there's no, there's no tricks.

Starting point is 00:27:39 No, there's no tricks and no cure. however it's just visual so it's not like um as intense as schizophrenia where you're like having thoughts beamed into your head or you're having auditory hallucinations it's a purely visual cosmetic thing so i learned to lean more in other senses music touch smell those kind of things so now i'm like more grounded in those things you know it's not like i'm experiencing psych you and what you didn't did it did you feel like i fucked myself yeah there's a lot of shame after that because you're like fuck I did this drug that everyone told me I was not supposed to do right and now look at me brain fried yeah egg on the frying pan uh-huh you know and did you how'd you get out of it

Starting point is 00:28:19 out of brain fry well out of feeling that way brother how did I externalize and not focus on it how did you stop like shaming yourself uh just getting older and shrooms becoming more acceptable you know like when you're in 11th grade I mean I told all my friends but now I could tell my parents don't care did you tell anybody back then but your friends yeah and they were like bro it's chill just do more you probably just oh I know the people's people's fucking uh like prescription is like do the worst thing yeah hair of the dog bro yeah like bro you just didn't do enough like take a heroic dose and you'll see it through yeah yeah I've thought yeah because they they know a lot about it yeah um okay so

Starting point is 00:29:01 then you go to school and then you start the thing that one of the blocks these are a lot of them are work-based and but that's what we're here for navigating fame as a young person without the opportunity to grow up normally from 21 to 30 yeah it's been horrible uh which sounds like a fake like oh it's been horrible but but explain when you said what's that mean well I don't want to just say horrible because the transition from being like regular to being famous is one of the coolest things you can experience it's like you're in a montage it's amazing that transition like in terms of just awkwardness going away when you become recognizable if I'm traveling somewhere new like I'm in Salt Lake City somewhere I've never been

Starting point is 00:29:40 I can walk into a coffee shop or a dive bar or like somewhere cool and people are like oh my god it's you and all of a sudden it's like you've got friends everywhere yeah but um once that goes away and you realize you can't really travel anonymously which was my favorite thing to do ever right and you start to kind of wish you could go back but it's not something that people are very sympathetic to because everybody wants to be famous at least most people do especially nowadays you ask my grandparents generation nobody wanted to be no yeah but most people now have sort of a main character thing and

Starting point is 00:30:10 they have this their social media following and they're kind of terminally online trying to grow their following all the time so everyone's kind of become an LLC in themselves so somebody with a higher market value on their on their name because everyone's a brand complaining about it to them feels like a sore winner but what's

Starting point is 00:30:26 the debt what what is bad about it is the anonymity extremely extremely insincere relationships very conditional relationships and a lot of people think, oh, that's just because you're in L.A. and this place is full of social climbers. If anything, people act more normal to me here because they're used to seeing people that are levels above me in fame such as like Post Malone or Billy Ilish or something. Yeah. For me, if I am in Pittsburgh and I love Pittsburgh. You're the post Malone in Pittsburgh.

Starting point is 00:30:55 Yes. Yes. Basically. So, I mean, I just kind of wish that I would have not tried to become famous so bad or tried to succeed so bad and would have set myself up for a more sustainable growth model as opposed to like go for instead of the vice model that you're doing yeah like you know like this i just wanted to i wanted it so bad well that's interesting because like hearing you talk like i you watch because of you're so sort of guileless on camera and like you're not like Andrew Callahan channel five news you're not doing any of that shit and you're not so I think people think you're like

Starting point is 00:31:35 you stumbled into the whole thing and I'm watching it going like no this is all planned and this guy's ambitious oh another thing too before I don't want to cut you off but I wanted to mention the loneliness of the road

Starting point is 00:31:48 because I lived in an RV when I was getting really famous made me do this weird thing because I was lonely and simultaneously famous where I'd go to a random town I remember one time I was in Reno and I would do this almost every

Starting point is 00:32:01 every couple days I'd go to a bar, I would post my location, and I'd say, everybody come kick it, and I would go to the RV for an hour, and I would go back to the bar, and there'd be like a hundred plus people there who were like fanatical Channel 5 fans, and it felt like every day was my birthday. Dude, I had that thought yesterday about fame is every day is your birthday, but by the way, everyone you mean. it's their birthday too because they got to meet a famous person and they it's like you kind of just everybody gets a little gacked and the fear is you know if you let them down you're in trouble yeah so what would you do to not let them down I was bad it at that you would let them but wow I don't know I just like meaning you would just like I would weird it out or you would get hammered or you

Starting point is 00:32:56 yeah hammered is a part of it I really just wouldn't meet the expectation that they wanted because I didn't say anything and I have this affable suit man character. People assigned this personality to me that matched them. So I would meet hippies, I'd meet punk rockers, I'd meet bikers, and rap kids who just assumed that we were sort of on the same page. And when I wasn't able to connect with them, sometimes they would feel betrayed. Well, is the affable suit man premeditated?

Starting point is 00:33:29 It just, I just thought. Or it was just like, you just were like, I went. You went to a thrift store, and that's what they had. Yeah, I went through a thrift store for the first time when I started doing this job, and I was like, it'd be funny if I wore a giant suit and did this, and it was funny. And, you know, but I am sort of affable and calm and agreeable in life. Yeah. So the character, the only thing I did was play up the awkwardness a bit more for the all-gas suit, man.

Starting point is 00:33:52 I'm not actually awkward. Do you find your, do you have a relatively flat affect, which I also do? Sometimes, yeah. Are you frustrated by it? Yeah, sometimes because I feel like. Some people want a bigger reaction from me. Yeah. When people compliment me, it makes me feel bad.

Starting point is 00:34:07 I know. People are like, cheer up or like, I'm calm, just smile. I'm like, no, I'm very excited that, yeah, I just don't know. I can't get whatever I'm supposed to do. I don't know how to do it. I mean, I can. When people compliment me and stuff, it's like, I don't want to let them down by not reacting. So I really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:34:24 But how I express appreciation is just like in a pensive way. I'm like, oh, man, thanks. Yeah. But if I want people to, like, people are like, I love your journalism. I'm like, I'm like, I'm scared. that I won't like give them what they want in return yeah and you probably won't yeah and so now I just kind of keep to myself smart you should shut down you should shut down emotionally yeah you're having to be famous you're happy to be

Starting point is 00:34:46 successful but you wish you would just sort of like been a little was it about being the RV versus the was it the isolation versus like the saturation I wasn't able to build community because I was constantly moving right I would all these temporary communities and you know well what do you make of the parasocial relationship meaning come kick it everybody comes to kick it I don't want to hate on it because no I don't but I don't I but what I'm saying is what did you think it was going to be and then when do you realize like oh fuck this isn't well because like all my fans are pretty cool yeah like our demographic

Starting point is 00:35:23 is cool so I actually would hang out with every single Channel 5 fan yeah but I can't because I don't have enough time right and so that's pretty much it so So the fame part and the loss of anonymity, I'm sure you've thought about, like, you're kind of tall, though, was the problem. Yeah, what? Like having some disguise? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:43 Something. I mean, I'm sure you could get decent prosthetics. The problem with prosthetics is it was to look prosthetic. Yeah. Okay, this is what I wanted to ask you about before I saw it was a block, which is hiring friends versus hiring professionals and mixing personal friendship with work, which is, you know, a lot of these blocks are kind of the,

Starting point is 00:36:00 like, ah, I, be. Because I know you have to do this by hand. It's like even the whatever I watched the Fennell one, the Albuquerque one today. And it was like, you're one of the editors. Yeah, yeah, I edit most of all my stuff. So, and then you're watching, you're working with other editors.

Starting point is 00:36:18 And you're probably in the same, I've watched you do shit, you guys are all in the same room. Like, it's hard to have boundaries. Yeah. Well, you know, all I ever wanted to do is put my homies on. give my day one friends

Starting point is 00:36:32 who always supported me jobs I never wanted to hire people who were in unions or in the field and scout all these professionals to hold cameras and go with me on the road you know I promised my best friends when I was young

Starting point is 00:36:44 by the way you're pro union though right I'm pro union I'm just saying I don't want to sound like I was trying to get documented later but I'm saying like I didn't want to like tap into like actually skilled people I've always said that like when things get too professional

Starting point is 00:37:00 I would ask my friend who's never held a camera before like do you know where the record button is can you please take this but I was a kid I always told all my friends my best friend in particular who I no longer talk to sad

Starting point is 00:37:11 but I told him I said one day I'm gonna get all of us jet skis and we're gonna live in a dope house in the water not in the water on the water maybe Lake Washington all together we're gonna be rich and we're gonna use the jet skis to get from place to place because all of our friends are gonna live

Starting point is 00:37:27 on the fucking water and we're not gonna need to do anything. And, you know, so I had the Jets, I was a rapper when I said that, a high school rapper, but the jet ski dream is something that I carried far. And also, the conditions of all gas, no brakes, which is like an old RV from 2002, we, uh, you had to have your friends come with you because no professional in their right mind would ever put themselves in that environment, you know, like, just a bunch of dudes, right? Yeah, so you want those dudes to be your homies. Yeah. You know, and so, but time and time again, you know, it's weird, bro. I learned

Starting point is 00:37:59 the same lessons over and over again, but I continue to repeat the patterns. Not always, and I'm just trying to, I'm just a people pleaser. But even now, like, I employ half of my friends, of the Channel 5 workforce, which is like 10 people. Half of them are homies. Half of them, it's a more professional thing. But the homies that I have hired have been with me through a lot, so I trust them. Who resents who? Friends are more likely to resent you if they're day one's the best kind of friends i call them day twos people who didn't know you on the playground didn't know you in high school when you had braces and you guys were going to house parties your second wife yeah exactly people who met you after you already succeeded who like you know you as a

Starting point is 00:38:42 successful person ever stuck you for that in that regard because they won't resent you or feel like it should be them you know the people that you hire would they be the day twos the hires yeah day ones are all bad because like if you guys come up together and even if they're your cameraman at first still appreciate the job, but as you become more successful, and then you kind of get, like, the clout. And you get, you have to go do fancy shit like this. They start

Starting point is 00:39:07 to see themselves as the tragically unsung heroes of like a band. You got to be careful, bro. Yeah. I'm telling, right now, the way you're talking, you're absolutely right. But it's, you're going to engender a lot of, because what's going to happen is one of these people's friends is going to send this

Starting point is 00:39:23 clip to them. I don't give a fuck. Fuck them. And they're going to be like, but, But it's very hard to explain to somebody like that it, you don't want to have to pull rank. But. And I also want to say, this can happen. It happens 100% of the time. And it's not just with famous people. No. Of course, it's with fucking people who run juice places.

Starting point is 00:39:47 If you live in like the slums, this could, this could happen if you got a job managing a golden corral. Absolutely. You know, it's not just limited to people who have had movie deals. This is like when you have a group of friends and one of them achieved something there's going to be some resentment and I hope that I could get around that resentment by bringing them along

Starting point is 00:40:06 but it actually made it even worse. Yeah, I'm trying to think of what the remedy is which is like just give people envelopes of cash I really think that could help. The problem is if the envelope that you give them is anything less than what they wanted or anything less than exactly what you get

Starting point is 00:40:25 they see every dollar of the disparity as a grand theft. Yep. It's the minds of people. Well, I know, but it's like the whatever those like money games where it's like, I don't want needs, they put five dollars and you can split it or one gets 10 and the other gets like people, yeah, it's, it really is a, it's an ongoing tragedy that just it's, I don't see how to fight it. Because, and then where you'll end up is a lot of times.

Starting point is 00:40:55 what happens is you'll end up so you'll hire all day twos and then you'll go to work and be like it's not the same feel yeah it's like it'll just be like work totally instead of uh instead of a vision quest i also have a friend group now that doesn't work for me oh great so it's like i can meet up with them on equal footing not that i feel like my friends who work for me are like subjugated no but it is it fucks up the it'll fuck up a friendship yeah if you're their boss okay so i wish you all the best with hiring friends versus professionals yeah all right again never being satisfied and prioritizing work over all else being a workhorse and navigating work holism work work work there's three three works in that well okay can i defend you before you even it's pretty satisfying you're

Starting point is 00:41:44 you're i mean i i i it must be pretty satisfying to have a side hustle in 2018 to just go like yeah fuck it i'm gonna go to minneapolis in 2020 and then like kind of blank and and and beyond my pockets no it's kind of blanking like this sort of whirls your oyster so to speak like i would argue you are one of the uh number one sources for for unbiased journalism on earth thank you man yeah i mean the work exactly you know i really appreciate that the workaholism has paid off yeah it often does and it but it's taking a toll on the people around me and the problem is I work so hard that I forget that I can't treat people like I treat myself because I wake up every morning and I think I'm going to work and make the illest

Starting point is 00:42:33 piece of journalism possible from the moment I open my eyes until I physically can't you're talking as yourself right now yes yeah until I literally collapse and I'm going to wake up and I'm going to do it again tomorrow because I love this shit but then I also realize like I can't expect everyone that I work with to get on that frequency I know they've got lives they've got interests and at the end of the day they're not me so they're not seeing as much of the benefit in terms of like people recognize and you can work you know they're just the guy you know behind the camera editing like I was um I was at Wawa in Philly the other day and I'm checking out I got a cheese steak and the guy behind there is like you I love the Hunter Biden interview

Starting point is 00:43:13 and I was like the guy at Wawa F launched it they don't get that and so I do really think that in that way fame kind of does reward the good work that you do yeah people tell you like that was sick yeah when they don't have that the incentive is less and also i just got to remind myself all the time not to project my workaholic standards on other people that's a big problem can you you see what's interesting about you is you seem like media trained meaning you give very succinct answers and like yeah like you see the end before you start and like the end um do you would you want to interview you yeah i'd love to interview me you know it's just i don't know i'm not dead inside or anything but i have a hard time expressing

Starting point is 00:44:03 myself because i've been through a lot of things is that really what do you mean i'm not going to do no i don't i don't think you're i don't think you're going to i mean the i mean i lost like my mind after the shroom shit when i was younger and my parents had just split and and just like high school was just a nightmare and college was crazy and then it ends and there's no jobs and I live in an RV for years and I got a movie on HBO

Starting point is 00:44:28 and that's sort of taken from me and I got to rebuild from scratch and I'm up again I'm interviewing the president's son and stuff yeah I'm just like what the fuck's going on well what it's dizzying which dishing in a good way is discussed and I also lost all gas snow brakes

Starting point is 00:44:47 that I had built I've just had to restart, and it just keeps working. How do you lose it? It's a boring contractual dispute. Okay, I got it. But I got it back. And when you say it keeps working, what do you mean? I keep succeeding.

Starting point is 00:44:59 I know, but so what's the part that's... Things always seem like it's the worst thing ever is keeps happening. That's life, dude. Yeah. That, honestly. And I just, like, don't... I haven't processed any of it. Because I'm just like, I've got to keep working.

Starting point is 00:45:13 Maybe if I keep working, it'll make sense at the end of the road. after I make my 50th project, I'll be able to... Okay, what's your best case scenario? What's your worst case scenario? Let's say 10 years from now. I want to have a fortified compound in like the... Mexico, of course. No, no, not in Mexico, because there's problems...

Starting point is 00:45:33 In, like, the foothills of northern New Mexico and just have some kids and maybe learn how to plant a garden or do something that has nothing to do with this stuff. I have my first New York Times op-ed that's supposed to come out. pretty soon oh great yeah um so maybe i'll like become a writer or something okay you're still impressed at the new york times i just wanted to i mean i mean like yeah uh i'm not gonna say i get it i but i'm not going to say you're more powerful than them but like it's a pretty and i say this as a subscriber to both new york times and and channel five i don't i mean there that's a that's a that's a

Starting point is 00:46:17 equal that's an equal uh trade off having you they should be as excited to be have you as you're excited to be in there but yeah they're not but whatever sometimes i just don't understand how any of this is happening but i also know you know enough about media to know why it's happening yeah but it's like how am i in this position because why isn't it somebody else the same the same reason rogan is it's the same reason because there was an abdication of power yeah by all these there's no there are no moral authority there's no ethical there's no authority so then so you think i don't think you're heroic i just think you're like okay so you just stand here and interview people and let people draw their own conclusion okay it'll be it's hard i have to

Starting point is 00:47:05 edit it myself you got to drive her an rb you're in reno shitty hotels must have something to do with the collapse of institutional media there's everything to do it and the distrust that people have in that stuff so that they see me and they're like, this is the guy. And I actually am pretty genuine, but it's weird because, like, it was only eight years ago that I was like hitchhiking around the U.S. and stuff. It's just, I don't know. Life's just crazy, man. Life's, like, it's really insane. I wish other people knew what I was saying. Like, it's just insane. I think people, I think people know, I mean, if, if people don't know what you're saying now, then they, because life's never been more insane. And I'm not even talking about your experience. I like, everyone,

Starting point is 00:47:46 I think if they're not, they're not paying attention, which most people aren't. But like, this is fucking crazy what's happening on the earth right now, just in general. I think it's, you know, at one point during the George Floyd stuff, but he my mom, it's like, yeah, you know, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, JFK, all got shot within five years of each other. I feel like we're in a time like that. Yeah. Getting sued by Trump too. Oh, true. For what?

Starting point is 00:48:09 Just a platforming Hunter Biden saying that Trump and Epstein were friends, got a cease and desist from Milan. this morning personally mal i'm good yeah i think i think he didn't want it uh to come from him that's really interesting because he's like fuck i don't mean i'm not saying trump's afraid of us but i'm saying like i feel like trump's scrambling right now to make it seem like he had no connection to epstein it's so weird all hunter biden did in our recent interview the second one was just suggest that they were friends and uh we have a cease and desist coming from milanio's attorneys it's like we're going to see you if you don't remove this video oh he said had milani and him that's how they they may have he actually i noticed the language yeah he said

Starting point is 00:48:51 they may have been introduced by and is that what it's about how's that how's all that doing on your nervous system dude oh i don't care oh okay i'm like well there's where that there's where that mushroom that's where that there's it's a shield and i'm just burnt out like you know what i mean from like cortisol yeah i believe it yeah uh does it were you yeah yeah no Yeah, I'm like less good. Not the, not the, that specific lawsuit, the cortisol burnout. No, it's awesome. Like, I can read the worst thing about myself and I feel nothing.

Starting point is 00:49:27 You think, what do you make of that? If you weren't you, what would you think of someone saying that? Oh, that they were crazy. You know, but for me, I just, I look at all the positives in life and I'm just so grateful for where I'm at. Even though I said it's crazy, I just love that I can support my mom and I help my dad buy a sports bar. I was always his dream, and I'm getting my grandma in apartment. So it's those kind of things where I'm like, I'll take the frustration of fame or whatever. What about jet skis?

Starting point is 00:49:53 Where are we? Well, we're not there yet, but that's specifically because I don't have any of my childhood friends around anymore. You have nine jet skis. You're just waiting for them to come back. I don't have jet skis, but now I could afford jet skis, which is sick. Yeah. The problem with jet skis is like after 30 minutes on the water, you're like, this is boring. I mean, 30.

Starting point is 00:50:12 Yeah. shit it's well it depends where you're at because i took one in laughlin nevada on the colorado river and they let you go forever so you can like pull it to the side and climb off a rocks and jump off of them and stuff but if you're just in like a circular limited waterway it's it's it gets boring it's 30 it's 45 seconds and you just go like i'm gonna go there and then you go and you go okay what else now having said that the most fun i've ever had maybe in my life was

Starting point is 00:50:41 jet skiing in Puerto Rico it was like the waves were like five six feet and and the guys who ran the jet ski company were Puerto Rican

Starting point is 00:50:54 so it was real fucking fun they didn't have a lot of rules and a lot of like you can't there was just like were you like trying to ride the barrel sideways or were you facing the waves head on you know Andrew

Starting point is 00:51:07 it's a great question both. Dude, because I'm picturing you right now, like catching it, it last. I went, I mean, I went up the, I mean, you would literally, I'd be laughing and then you fucking, gig it. It was so fucking fun. Yeah, and I'm sure you signed like a death waiver beforehand, so you could

Starting point is 00:51:22 I don't know what, I may not have signed anything. Or maybe the Puerto Rican judicial system that's what I'm saying. It's a little, they do things a little differently down there. Okay. So, the workalism, it is rewarding. You're, I think you're having

Starting point is 00:51:38 the experience that a lot of people are having which is or a lot of people in in um entertainment or youtube or content whatever you want to call it which is this is exhilarating and very stressful yeah and i don't know which one to pay more attention to because they kind of offset each other yeah so you're like i don't want to complain but at the same time i don't have any cortisol left i my my synapses are so fucking fried but my mom my mom's got what your dad's got a sports bar i don't remember the litany but so and it probably goes you probably think all things at the same time yeah yeah sometimes they'll hear a song and i'll just get real emotional because it's like the taps in a part of the brain that's like gone away tapped into the part of that and you remember that part of the brain

Starting point is 00:52:33 yeah it reminds me of being younger like yeah it's more hopeful well what's your words what's the what the guys that that you've had falling outs with is it all like you use me you're is it you're an egomaniac you're narcissist you're you're uh you don't care about all you care about spain yeah it's not true he cares about jet skis and mexico as well and i want them your honor let the record show that you got to be ready if there's one thing i'm not messing around with this summer it's my deodorant mando deodorant man i was really doing the 90s voice over there guys and I blew it. Mando deodorin and sweat control is built for this season. Blocks odor all day, controls sweat too. Powerful on pits but gentle on skin. This isn't your

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Starting point is 00:57:56 yeah you said you like cocaine i liked cocaine oh yeah what do you what did you correct me what's that i don't do it anymore oh you had to like hard stop well it just makes me kind of annoying in what way i just never stopped talking i think it's a pretty common cocaine yeah yeah what are you talking about anything i just tell random strangers too much like uh brag are you braggy no i'm not braggy i'm just like life story you know it's just it makes you like an uber driver from hell every time you love um and do you so you were like that's enough it wasn't there was no like would you have like an emotional hangover to go with a real hangover yeah that as well and like i've been dating the same girl for like three years now and she's sober so it's just like when i i still do drink here

Starting point is 00:58:44 and there but now i can keep it contained now you know because she goes to bed at like 10 o'clock so it's like i can go to happy hour with my friends get home and still be there and present whereas if we had a bag i'd be like you know sleeping on the couch getting home at five filmed like a piece of shit she's getting ready for work or whatever seeing me laid up snoring looking yeah how's the relationship going that's great man how she feel about your schedule she doesn't like it you're kidding nobody saw that coming she doesn't like it but she understands it because she I said she went to work because I wanted to sound like I had a two partner working household but she does not in fact work we don't need to get into all that takes

Starting point is 00:59:22 care of the dogs though which is a serious thing we have four dogs so every morning one more until legal right what's in there a limit I don't know but if you're I mean we're probably gonna get more and get some more land so she has to take care of our dogs and two of them are rescues and they have epilepsy so she's always like saving their life oh got it all right well yeah I'm not talking about whether she works or not what uh any there's no suspicion of like fame or like what do you know no she got me like right after the like worst controversy of my life when like everyone thought it's a piece of shit oh yeah tell us about that tell us about the worst controversy yeah it was just a bad

Starting point is 00:59:56 situation you know after the HBO film so you make an HBO film called this place rules right which they aired a little they aired it it's still there okay

Starting point is 01:00:08 they just halted promotion for it got it okay and why do they halt promotion just a whole bunch of cancel cancel shit it was I remember it was girls and Twitter or girls and DMs sounds about right that wasn't on some like super weird shit

Starting point is 01:00:23 it was just like let's meet up No, dude, it was, I'll get into it more at some point in a more distinguished manner. I got you. But, yeah, it was. No offense taken. Go ahead. Basically, basically bullshit. Okay.

Starting point is 01:00:37 And, but it still destroyed my life at the time. Yeah. After things kind of fell apart, I started going to sobriety meetings, not so much because I had a problem, but I was so depressed that I knew that if I were to drink through those feelings, I would become hopelessly alcoholic. Just because, you know, drinking is fun as a social activity to bond with people. It takes on a different form when it's used as like an antidepressant because it's short acting and then the hangover boomerang is really bad. So if you're feeling like shit and you go and drink, it'll work to make you feel better. You get hammered by the end of the night.

Starting point is 01:01:18 You'll be feeling all right. But then you wake up, those same feelings that you were covering up will come back twice as hard, which will then make you want to drink twice as much. And you'll have anxiety. And that will just continue to skyrocket. And it's that hair of the dog cycle.

Starting point is 01:01:31 So I figured I would just go to sobriety meetings with the purpose of just having a place to go and having a community of some kind during that time. And that's how I met her. oh great so it's like on the contrary her friends were like don't date this guy yeah i've read about this guy he's a piece of shit and so but she met me and she's like this guy's actually awesome and he told me what really happened and um so long story short i know that she's a real one because she had every incentive to not date me it's like the reverse it was like i had

Starting point is 01:02:07 negative clout tokens at that time. When you had the dust up, did you feel like I should have never done corporate media? Because I remember when you signed the deal with HBO, I was like, I don't know. I don't see the appeal. Meaning I, because I'm from the old media,

Starting point is 01:02:27 anything new media, I'm like, that's it. Well, I like doing one-off pieces with like institutional media just as a signal that we still can. because there's a certain cohort of people out there. Who's we? We still can. Like the street urchins?

Starting point is 01:02:44 You know, like the youngsters, like the youngsters that like we can still cross over and then bounce back without selling out. So I'll never do a series probably for Netflix or Hulu or HBO, but I certainly will do a documentary or maybe a really small limited run series. But more than anything,

Starting point is 01:03:01 I was just tired of being called a YouTuber by media outlets. Every time I did something, they'd say YouTuber or Gen Z influencer, a liberal. What they call you for Hunter Biden? YouTube. Then you're back to YouTube? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:14 They don't acknowledge the movie. But I just wanted to be called something different. That's why I'm excited about the New York Times op-ed, because maybe they'll say, like, published writer or something. I just, I don't know, I get real. Again, it's, I, yeah, it's, I told somebody today, it's like, I was talking to Bobby Lee today, and I, he, he, everybody, I know. still wants to do movies and TV shows and I go it's like wanting to have sex with

Starting point is 01:03:42 Morgan Fairchild just like these old you're like why she's 70 now yeah like she don't you there's young people yeah like YouTube is the fact that you have zero editorial oversight yeah is so crazy to me and so as an old person I'm like dude that shit is like beautiful well it's kind of sad because like the group that was attempting to like bait me and a big like civil cash payout around the controversy which i'll talk about maybe in a book or something a later day they uh in text messages and stuff they were like you know we want a piece of your fat HBO check so like the that group believed that um HBO is giving me like millions of dollars

Starting point is 01:04:26 automatically because they are still coming from a position of like oh shit you know so it's kind of sad like i was doing like a million dollar merch drops and you know all these cool things online And then HBO paid me like 40K for two years of work. I know. And this group that's out there who's like not in my world is like, all right, now's the time to see if we can get some money out of Andrew. And then they do that whole thing. And I was like, fuck. You know, even when they were asking me for money, I wanted to be like, God, you guys should have done this during the merch.

Starting point is 01:04:54 Yeah. Yeah. No, people don't know where the money from. But I mean, people hear HBO and they think money. Yeah. So they kind of put that plan together after the trailer was released. Do you feel I bought the Kelly? Oh, thanks, dude.

Starting point is 01:05:06 Yeah, I bought it. Again, before I even DM'd you, like, I'm telling you, I'm a actual fan. What's the name of that movie? Dear Kelly. Dear Kelly. But it's just about a guy who you just see, like, screaming magin flags and conspiracies and, like, what's actually happening? And the movie covers, like, his family and how he started doing it and why he's doing it. And what are the underlying mental health things and whatever.

Starting point is 01:05:31 It had way more of an arc than I thought it would. So I was, like, grateful for that. because it wasn't, it wasn't homeworky. Appreciate it. How do you feel about selling shit direct to consumer like that? Do you?

Starting point is 01:05:46 Okay, so you just, you prefer that as a business model? Okay, so check it out. I made six times as much revenue off of Dear Kelly than I did from the HBO film. $240,000 from my calculations. Go ahead. More than that.

Starting point is 01:06:00 Okay, great. But all of the money, unfortunately, has gone back into legal fees fighting a lawsuit related to the film. Got it's such bullshit. The point is, it was a net zero. Which, by the way, when you're with a corporation, they would cover those fees.

Starting point is 01:06:14 But they give you less money. So I had to spend all the Deer Kelly money from the tour and the thing, you know, fighting this guy, Bill Joyner in court. But on the bright side, 60,000 people rented Deer Kelly. 60,000 individuals went to a website, like it's 2002, like it's the bumfights DVD. And they go to Deerkellyfilm.com.

Starting point is 01:06:33 How dare you? They bring a bumfights. And they buy it for $5.55 and they watch it, you know. So I talk to people in the film industry. What did everybody pay? $5.55. And I talked to everybody in the film industry, and they're like, man, you're kind of the talk of the town right now. Like people can't believe you did it that way or whatever.

Starting point is 01:06:53 But yet there's not one write-up in the press about it. There's no, the only variety. You know what the variety article about that said? it was basically like canceled YouTuber explains how a Maga Patriot saved his life. Because you're complaining about people that are so

Starting point is 01:07:10 tone deaf and you're still looking for their blessing. That's what I'm trying to say. That's what I said. Try to say to try to say to Bobby today. It's like why do you still as a guy who had a network didn't I'm on Netflix and all that shit but like if

Starting point is 01:07:27 this model is it. It's not, you don't get articles written about you. It's just not as pressy. Yeah. But the, you are the press, dude. You think so? I know it. You're the, you are, I don't give a shit about, for a, I don't, if I want to know about, you know,

Starting point is 01:07:44 fentanyl in Tijuana, or in Albuquerque, I got your stories mixed up. And Tijuana. And if you want to, if you want to know about the Amazon factory in Tijuana, they covered the sign. I watched the whole fucking thing. Um, and I've got a ground news. Um, uh, fucking ground news. Go past news. What's the promo code?

Starting point is 01:08:01 Channel 5. Yeah. I actually like ground news. But, um, but, uh, but, uh, but the, you, I, that we're all looking for validation from these antique-ass fucking institutions is silly. It's dumb. I don't know what's wrong with me. I just think it's cool to like that.

Starting point is 01:08:21 It's wrong with everybody. Yeah. Every, like, Rogan's the only one who truly does not care about this shit. I don't think. I mean, from what I gather. Like, yeah, I don't think he was trying to get on, on, on Spotify. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think he was pining for a deal.

Starting point is 01:08:39 So what I'm saying is like, just enjoy the freedom. It just feels, weirdly, it feels like you're in an RV by yourself. It's not like the red carpet and the thing and the publicist and all that shit that you never really experienced anyway. Yeah. And the publicist at HBO has signed me. Boy, were they bad. Great. fuck

Starting point is 01:08:59 yeah because crisis PR oh my god yeah dude I can't wait to write this goddamn book man yeah because you're

Starting point is 01:09:07 by the way you could go direct the consumer with that I'm sure you won't because you'll get the advance and do all that

Starting point is 01:09:12 but like it was crazy after the controversy they were like all right we're going to we're going to make a statement

Starting point is 01:09:18 on your behalf man seriously going to turn the tides on this whole scandal uh this friend

Starting point is 01:09:22 that said Andrew Callahan is devastated I was like what the fuck is wrong with you guys Did you read it before they released it No

Starting point is 01:09:31 I mean I was like what and they were like They did release that right Yes I remember reading it and being like NBC and they were like You've expressed remorse I'm like I know I pictured you with like a dog cone Yeah yeah on your head like

Starting point is 01:09:47 Yeah You're devastated like Andrew What did you do? Yeah It's a Man there's just so much I want to say Because the problem is so many people have gotten canceled for sexual stuff that

Starting point is 01:10:02 and they all say there's so much i want to say i can't yet but did it i i know why you're not but like i'm going to it's not a matter of when yeah exactly i mean they all say that too but what okay and what do you do it again it's similar block here which is you how do you build relationships when constantly moving uh just oh as far as making new friends well that you have that as a block and I don't I'm one I was thinking about this in my own life when someone's when you meet up with somebody who's like in the middle of a tour or they do what you do when you're sitting across from each other this is how it feels hey man so how's it going yeah so yeah so yeah cool all right I got to go like it just feels like it's there's a they're on a conveyor belt yeah and you're sitting

Starting point is 01:10:49 you're watching them go past and you feel less than because you're not a on the conveyor belt. Yeah. And you can tell they have a different ecosystem that they're in. Like, oh, that's my driver, that's my da-da-da-da-da-da. And it's bad for human connection. Yeah, I mean, I'm still able to make friends, you know, but I have some good friends already. But as far as making relationships on the road, you just got to be more, just got to be

Starting point is 01:11:14 careful. Well, no, but I'm wondering, like, what do you, they would be the friends that you make here, I would think, right? Yeah, I just have my guy Saddam. He's probably my best buddy. I look like some Halo Troopers. do you plan on shooting people today he's the co-host of channel 5 but he doesn't work for it he just like does jobs here and there he's awesome you see the guy wears the mask yeah yeah yeah that's probably

Starting point is 01:11:33 my best friend here yeah i don't know i just um i'm okay with less friends now i heard that was gonna happen when i got to be in my like late 20s early 30s you're okay with having five friends because you used to have like five million yeah but i'm cool with it because i like them and i don't need to meet a bunch of new people if i do also don't have that much time yeah also like you get the new dogs the other dogs are still having seizures you know and like Now that I'm, you know, not single, it's like, I like my girlfriend and the dogs and my friends. I'm good. Yeah, good.

Starting point is 01:12:00 Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is you don't. What do you make when they talk about, like, most Americans say they have no friends? Is there a part of you that? I think that's true. I agree. Yeah. You know why it's because of the- negatively about it.

Starting point is 01:12:12 I mean, it's fine. It's because of the planning of cities, man. It's the car infrastructure and suburbia and the tall fences and just the way things are designed. There's no parks anymore. I mean, if there are, they're just, like, covered in tweaking. and gangbangers, shit, you know, I mean, you're not trying to say, like, no, I know, that's what's funny is like the, the, you go to a park and it's like, parks are not for people.

Starting point is 01:12:32 No. That's the coolest thing about like Europe in general is you can make friends in the streets and shit. People don't have friends here anymore. I mean, I, I, like I said, I have friends, but I think a lot of people are lonely. Suburbia is a massive sprawl. Not to mention rich people generally aren't really nice to each other, and they're jealous. And so if you constantly suing each other over tree lines. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:12:52 And as things get more expensive. in the cities, you have more rich people, and they're jealous of each other. Even now, I live in a nicer area. I've never had more cold dynamics with the greater neighborhood community. When I had no money, it was like my neighbors were like the coolest people ever.

Starting point is 01:13:07 I could just knock on the door, roll in, get some iced tea and keep moving. Or, you know, we would eat dinner together and share stuff. A friend of mine who grew up poor in like, you know, bed style, I think, said there was something growing up. There was something sweet about growing up because it was like socialism like everyone's everyone's kind of broke and everyone kind of has the same amount of money and they have the same there's no there's not much of a higher it's a way flatter

Starting point is 01:13:33 hierarchy and it's like kinder yeah for that reason obviously there's a lot of the crime and stuff but like the general vibe of like hey people introduce yourself now you're like hey hey hey like you yeah you get automatically Sebastian manascalk has a great joke 20 years ago your doorbell rang that was a happy moment in your house the whole family shot off the couch oh my dad now your doorbell rings it's like what the fuck I think that amongst like the uber rich there probably is that like hey you can borrow my yacht you know what I mean but in terms of what they call it the petite bourgeois and Marxist you know dialogue and stuff which is the the rich of the inner city you know the people that order all their mills on Uber Eats and you see the Equinox, they're not friends. No. And even their friends, they're not really friends. No. They don't like their friends. So I think that's why, you know, as you have on one hand, rich inner cities with very little

Starting point is 01:14:32 social connections, and then you have sprawling suburbia, which is becoming lower and lower income and more depressing. Don't you want to do, because I feel like you're edging toward you're very civic-minded. Yeah. So you know all this stuff and it's a, shame i mean i was going to say it's a shame you can't run for office obviously you could but you see what that is yeah i mean just like the amount of fucking fundraising they have to do would just be like soul crushing um and you there's not i don't know if there's a way around it other than maybe aOC but she's constantly has i don't know like whatever like in terms of like being a good fundraiser automatically yeah i think a lot of that civic stuff has to do with just growing up in

Starting point is 01:15:20 Seattle witnessing the gentrification that sort of like forced us out of the city and just like the cultural erosion and like tech takeover and having friends become a homeless around 18 because they couldn't afford apartments downtown and you you think reporting on it that's your contribution to helping yeah I mean it's all I can really do I can't run for office I mean I know that raising awareness doesn't always fix things but hopefully it can chip away like the way the way the public thinks about them yeah which could then cause people to people better in the world or maybe vote for causes that lead to positive change you were always pretty I'm assuming you were empathetic and then has you become more

Starting point is 01:16:02 more so yeah as you've been doing it probably I mean I'm just not mean people always say how are you so empathetic to people I'm like what's the other option I'm supposed to act like yucco the clown you know what I mean yeah like I'm just nice I don't call people names or like disparage them I'm just very deadline I will finish a documentary when I say it's going to get done, even if it means I don't sleep much, and I have to sacrifice socializing. But, I mean, it's just part of the game for me. I'm in it to win it.

Starting point is 01:16:31 I'm not in it to be in last place or second place. I'm sort of Rocky Balboa-minded when it comes to this documentary game. Yeah. No participation trophies in media. It's cutthroat. What's funny is, is it though? Because I feel like you don't are there, but I know there isn't like seeing it all the all like the sort of the corporate ones, but is it in?

Starting point is 01:16:49 your is there a guy that you're like or woman or whoever you like where you're like we got to get there before so-and-so gets there yeah i mean that's the thing is you don't even know who you're racing but you're just racing the others you know because i know but they people would rather talk to you like we beat the media at hunter biden right you know how because he was a fan yeah of our shit and he knew that our business model is mostly patreon crowdfunded so we don't have an investor or some senior editor making us spin something a same way and I had a Zoom call with him and he took my

Starting point is 01:17:24 sincerity at face value and was like you got no reason to fuck me over so why don't you fly out to Delaware and we can sit down for an interview when you're like I have to do the Zoom with Hunter were you did you want to get it or we just like I couldn't believe it it was the coolest shit ever I was so

Starting point is 01:17:39 excited when he called me I was like no way because even when my attorney told me like yo Hunter Biden wants to talk to you and you know I you guys should connect i was like yeah we'll see about that yeah so i took a zoom call and my first thought is i'm like this guy's the homie i thought it was gonna be insane you know but he was a chill as had you not watched anything with him before he seemed he always seemed pretty like well he did a controlled interview back in 2020 on the jimmy kimmel show or jimms allen but that was three

Starting point is 01:18:06 and a half minutes when he's covered in makeup promoting a book yeah i had only really seen the discourse about him surrounding the discourse about him surrounding like the laptop yeah i knew about the Right. We all know by the cars. Fantastic. Yeah. I'm interested in the, in the conflict within you. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:26 Because it just seems like you want to help people and then you feel betrayed and I bet they have a just as good a monologue as you do about you as you do about them. And I've been them. I've been you. Like I personally. Yeah, I mean, I'll say this about myself. I prioritize work over. work over personal relationships.

Starting point is 01:18:47 I'm so passionate about what I'm doing that I will get things done at the expense of my own health and also other people's feelings. And that's something that I, it's just a sad truth, but just to keep it real, you know. Have you told your, have you had like a head butt with your girlfriend about this? All the time, man, because she's just like, you don't have to cover this. You don't have to make this documentary. Things happen all the time. You don't have to chase the news like this.

Starting point is 01:19:16 And she's right. I'm the one who's wrong. I may be good at what I do, but I could make half as much stuff and it would still have the same impact. I'm trying to figure out how to slow down the frenetic pace while maintaining the integrity and good intentions. What are you weighing?

Starting point is 01:19:29 Getting beat by other people. Who? I don't know. I mean, you're not wrong. It's funny, there's a guy in a shittier suit who's taller and, you know what I mean? Taller? Yeah, taller, weirder hair, flatter.

Starting point is 01:19:44 I'm trying to create this like, like, seven foot tall. Yeah, you're just being like slowly chased by a guy with who doesn't have any facial expressions. So what's up? And you're like, fucking. That's so good. Yeah, I mean, that is a, I guess that's kind of all you need to worry about. There's a lot of people out there who could beat me. I don't think anyone, no one could beat you, but I know what it takes.

Starting point is 01:20:10 You know what I think about some of these social media jobs now? I think people are just it's going to be like attrition. I think people are going to like that girl Emma Chamberlain who like was made great YouTube videos. She did. Then was like I'm going to make a coffee and I'm

Starting point is 01:20:27 going to make coffee on my and then she was like I'm never doing any social media videos again because that was a fucking kind of a horror on my life. It's almost like public service like you are like compulsory. It's like the Jewish military. Like

Starting point is 01:20:42 Everybody should have to do it for three years, and then you're kind of, like, done. Yeah, and I've seen a lot of people come and go, and my goal is longevity. You know, I want to be 75 still doing this, and it's crazy that that's true. I would have done this for, like, 55 years, and that's possible. 75 is not even old. Most journalists who you see in the field are in their 60s. Anderson Cooper is, like 65. That's 40 years from.

Starting point is 01:21:08 I don't think he's that old, is he? Mike Wallace and those motherfuckers were like, Leslie Stollinger. All's late 70s. Either way, like, that's not old. Like, you can be a 75-year-old gonzo journalist. And I want to continue doing that. And Hunter Thompson, he passed away when he was 64. I want to, I don't want to pass away that young.

Starting point is 01:21:26 I think you could if you, I mean, the cortisol is not good for you, but like. Well, it's good to have cortisol. You know, it's a panic feeling, right? Yeah, but to a point. Well, I'm sure that if there was someone with a gun to my face, I would feel something. You'd find, you'd find it in you? I just mean, yeah. I just mean for like social media, like negative online discourse.

Starting point is 01:21:46 Yeah, but okay. What about the New Mexico dream? Oh, well, that's possible. Well, I mean, I'm built. I have a new RV getting built right now. It's like a hollowed out ambulance with like a sick ass editing bay and news desk in the back and a Murphy bed that folds down that I spent like all my money on. So I might live there for a while.

Starting point is 01:22:05 And the New Mexico ranch would just be a place for me to park it. Okay. And blow off steam and go in the hot springs. what about the expansion of channel five yeah well it's it can be done it right but how do you how do i make it happen how do you how do you find people that are like you enough that are willing to just like kill themselves and you're going to take a piece of it yeah well i'm not going to so i got set how would you i mean then you would just give them give like put their shit on well i just ask people to maybe go like 50% as hard as me. That's enough. Or 75. But give that and but you'll put it on

Starting point is 01:22:47 Channel 5. Yeah, for sure, man. Like my, my buddy Jose Way in Mexico City, dude, he's a big workhorse. What do you think about gentrification? About what? Gentrification. Guy does like four stand-up shows a week and still finds time to squeeze out Channel 5 content. Gensrification. Oh, I think it's important. What are you worried about? Nothing. Are you worried about the future of America? No. Because you think we're doomed either way.

Starting point is 01:23:15 You think we're going to make it either way? Do you think like that 1960s analogy, like, yeah, we go through crazy periods and we come out of it? I think people will find a way to survive, and I think it'll be very interesting. You know, there might be some different states that emerge. We could have like a balkanization where there's like, you know, maybe Texas can become Serbia and there can be like different little, like, you know, I don't know. I have a whole different theory. I want to know what you think because you've been around for longer than me. I think in 15 and 20 years, there may be three countries.

Starting point is 01:23:47 And what's that going to be? Middle of the country, Eastern Sea? No, no, no. I mean, China, America, and probably Russia. And I think everybody else, there's not going to be client states anymore. I think everyone else is just going to go. We can't, our country is not big enough to field an army. And so Russia, China, America is probably going to invade us, or we can just go, I just think it's, I think climate, AI, I have no idea. I have no fucking idea.

Starting point is 01:24:18 That could be the end of the earth. It could be we live forever. I don't know. It's a pretty, pretty huge coin toss. This is a pretty good, pretty big binary. But I honestly believe, like, the way I see it in my head is like people with declining birth rate. people aren't going to be able to have armies and then what are they going to do then they're just subject to I think they're just going to go like can we join 15 to 20 years I really maybe less okay well shit I guess we'll have to do a podcast round two around yeah no I I if you hear look if you hear what I'm saying it oh I hear you like it's going to be crazy I also think climate and and birth declining birth rates yeah all those things are real And I think there's going to be weird, weird downstream effects.

Starting point is 01:25:09 For sure, I could see that. But you're either going to be in an ambulance RV, Mexico, New Mexico, or not New York, not L.A. I like L.A. Maybe Philadelphia. Down Philly? Where are you going to be, hon? I like Northern Liberties. I like South Philly the best because it's only part of Philly. It's exactly the same as it was when I was a kid.

Starting point is 01:25:33 Got it. What years were there? 1997 to 2008. All right. You were born in 96? 97. 97. I grew up in Villanoba. You're from the Philly area? Yeah, bro.

Starting point is 01:25:45 You should have said that. I know, but I don't, you know, but then it becomes that. Oh, then we got to do Philly Talk to all the time. Yeah, I know. That's what I mean. Like, you want while you go to fucking Ben Salem? It becomes fucking unrelatable to the entire audience. Yeah, nobody likes it.

Starting point is 01:25:58 Guys, Andrew Callahan, I hope you got a sense of him. Watch all of his shit. Like I said, besides his partner, Hunter, um, it was, uh, he's just a great objective. It's, it's very, it's very, uh, valuable. Well, thanks so much for having me on, man. I really appreciate it. Yep.

Starting point is 01:26:21 Yep. Pace, man. All you have to do is open up your hand, my man.

Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Andrew Callaghan

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