Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Charlamagne Tha God

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

Neal Brennan interviews Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. Charlamagne's Blocks: 00:00 Intro/Mental Health 14:52 Imposter Syndrome 22:29 Father Issues 32:32 Social Media 41:17 Crowds 50:22 Boonky Nose 52:26 Small Talk 56:28 Sativa 57:38 Overcommitting 58:58 People Pleaser Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle (tw @WillyDaSquid) This episode is sponsored by BlueChew and Magic Spoon. https://bluechew.com/neal for your first month free https://magicspoon.com/neal for $5 off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Seth and Riley's Garage Hard Lemonade, a delicious classic with a vibrant taste of fresh lemons. The perfect balance of sweet and sour with a crisp, zesty edge. Welcome to The Garage, the place of refreshing hard lemonade. Available at the LCBO. Must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Hey everybody! hey everybody my name is neil brennan i got a netflix special called blocks uh where i go over the things in my life that make me feel like something's wrong with me that i'm crazy that i'm isolated that i'm alone in the world and uh my friend jimmy car had the idea to have

my friends come on and tell me what their blocks are and we uh we get vulnerable and we shame shame one of my old good buddies is here uh a mental health crusader hey like myself a couple of goddamn crusaders charlemagne the god is here everybody what's happening my brother i love blocks by the way thank you thank you sir you don't get enough credit for your stand-up specials man three mics and blocks are two of the most uh interesting and in different devices used to get into stand-up comedy you heard the man you fucking heard i'm surprised people didn't steal the three mics concept i worked with um ellenGeneres on her last special, and at one point, Portia, her wife, was like,

I just wish she could do three mics. Why can't she? I mean, I was going to do a series of letting other people do it, but then Netflix started giving people $20 million. Oh, got you. So it was like, all right, well, I'm not going to. No one's going to do it for, you know what I mean? Like Dave or anybody who's getting Chris, any of like the tight, the $20 million club

ain't going to do, they're not going to give me 15 minutes to stand up. Yeah. And it's like, it's interesting. You turned blocks into this because nobody could do blocks, but you like once that concept is done, it's done as far as stand up, but for this, it makes sense to podcast for a minute. Thank you. step is done yes done as far as stand-up yes but for this it makes sense to podcast yes thank you so anyway one of the things that i i'm most flattered by with you and i don't even remember

saying this you said you're i would say you're like the uh a leader in uh black mental health right absolutely and you said i you went there because i went to therapy absolutely i always credit you because you you were one of the people that were always talking about it. And whether you knew I was curious about it or whether you knew I was going through it, dealing with anxiety and bouncing depression, hearing you talk about how it helped you made me be like, man, I really need to go. That means more to me than I can ever express. Because you don't know.

And I remember posting on instagram like uh and like kevin love and like people like that and people don't talk about it and it's not it's just not that big a deal to me that's the thing like i i think because i was the youngest in my family i got to test out like hey i go to therapy and i take medication on older people and then be like how long are you gonna do that and i take medication on older people and then be like how long are you gonna do that and just all this sort of judgment and then once i was once i sort of like stood my ground with them i have no shame about you talking about it so nonchalantly pete davidson talking about it so nonchalantly amanda seals you know uh the other people that i i'm around i'm talking right so just hearing y'all talking about it so nonchalantly was like, yeah, man, I need to

really go try to figure this out. Because I'm hearing y'all talk about things that I deal with. Yeah. I'm hearing y'all use language to identify these experiences that I've had my whole life. Well, that's my question. When did you become aware of it? Whole life. Well, that's my question.

When did you become aware of it? Because you were living just like a, you were never like a knucklehead knucklehead, right? I mean, you were just like living a regular life. I was kind of, it depends what you call knuckleheadish, you know what I mean? But my whole life, I've always dealt with panic attacks. I just never knew what they were.

I actually thought I was just pussy. You know what I'm saying? Because literally, I'd be walking down my dirt road and see a car coming and go shoot off in the woods and hide and don't know why. I don't know why my heart starts racing the way it does. I don't know why my palms start sweating. And you had no idea what was happening? No.

You just thought you were a pussy. I thought I was pussy. And then you think about it, growing up in the 90s, we grew up in the era where you had to be hardcore. Right. Like there was actual it was a genre yes of music doesn't hard to describe biggie or puffy describes a panic attack in one of those songs oh a lot of them i mean but like suicidal thought yeah yeah exactly

suicidal thoughts was suicidal thoughts like like when dudes heard it were they like this is pussy ass shit or were they like okay i don't you know i don't know what i thought when dudes heard it were they like this is pussy ass shit or were they like okay i don't you know i don't know what i thought when i heard suicidal thoughts i honestly thought that it was just like watching a movie almost like you know how you watch a movie and like it's supposed to feel this way yeah i just thought he was you know pinning out words like he had another song called i don't want to live no more i'm trying to hit death knocking at my front door growing up in a certain environment you feel like that all the time anyway. You know what I mean? I don't think I've ever felt like I wanted to die. Even when they say the song, even when the album's

called Ready to Die, probably because of the lifestyle we were living at the time, we felt like it could happen at any moment, but I wasn't speaking that into existence. I didn't want it to happen. Do you feel like it was a comp it was like a more common thing like the reddit i think is obviously like a stance born out of like living in a shitty environment and you have to pretend like i don't even give a fuck and do all that shit absolutely and do you feel like most dudes are experiencing some form of mental health, whether it's a crisis or not, just like there is. And is it, how much better do you think it gets a year?

Let's just say black males. It doesn't get better if you don't do the work. But I'm saying culturally, like how much more accepted is it getting? Oh, no, no. It's more accepting than it's ever been. I think about when I wrote my second book, Shook One, and it came out in 2018. And then my... I remember Thanksgiving of that year, my father called me. I was home in Moncks Corner, South Carolina, and I had a cousin who had completed suicide

that week. And that was like the fourth time that he attempted it. But, you know, he completed it. My father called me, and between my book and that moment, he told me, he attempted it, but he completed it. My father called me and between my book and that moment, he told me, he was like, man, I've been going to therapy two and three times a week. I was on 10 to 12 different medications throughout my life. I tried to commit suicide when I was like 30 years old. So I'm listening to him tell me these things. I remember calling my mom like, yo, mom, did you know pops was going through all this?

And she was like, yo, I thought he was playing crazy to get a check. Because that's what happened back then when you would try to go deal with your issues and they couldn't figure out what the issue problem is. They're going to put you on medication and they're going to start giving you a check. And you get disability. Absolutely. So it's like if I would have known he was going through that back then, I would have known what i was dealing with when i was younger because he dealt with all the same things so it was a similar portfolio of issues my father used to sleep with a knife and a gun by his bed because he said the devil i mean who doesn't do

that go ahead he said the devil was coming to get him at night you know what i mean like there was always so so no taser as well i go i go gun knife and taser he snuck a taser in the metlife stadium yeah well he didn't sneak it in he's from south carolina so he's used to having it on him that's my dad always say keep something on you so he literally just walked in the metlife stadium on 9-11 i think this was like 2011 2012 and he walked in during the cowboys jets game and got into a fight with a marine on 9-11 and ended up tasing him. True story. Google it.

What were they? Were they arguing about football? My dad, you know, he's older. He's not old, old, but he's older. And so it was the Pledge of Allegiance. And he wasn't standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. Not because he was trying to disrespect the flag. He just couldn't stand up for that period of time

so he's sitting down at the game and uh when my when his wife tried to get up to go to the bathroom the man was like no because y'all didn't stand up for the pledge my dad let me get the fuck out the way and the marine was like no so my dad just hit him with the tape that is fantastic yeah okay so what was when do you remember first having issues in the any kind of mental health issue for oh panic my first panic attack not that i know what a panic attack is was first grade it was first grade my mother dropped me off at meminger elementary school because uh i'm born in charleston but raised in monks corner but my mom used to teach at courtney middle school in downtown charleston so we would drive from monks corner we might've been staying, no, we were staying in like a trailer park in

Charleston. And I can't remember the name of it, but we used to drive from the trailer park to the school and just her dropping me off in first grade. I remember having a panic attack in first grade and crying uncontrollably to the point that my mom didn't want to leave, but she had to go to the school. And like all of the teachers trying to console me i'm in first grade bawling like just having a severe panic attack and heart racing heart racing palms sweating everything shaking like you know like really thinking something is wrong with me and and and when i it wasn't because my mom was dropping me off my mom had been dropping my mom dropped me off the kindergarten when i was young i can remember so you'd already been to school this was not even

your first day first grade right it was memory elementary school first year two of school yeah i remember little red riding hood you know the school that i used to go to in the kindergarten i used to go to the preschool i remember that i didn't have those panic attacks then but that birthday of first grade severe panic attack i you know what's interesting my first day of kindergarten so it was my first day of school she they dropped me off in the morning this is a couple things here and i bawled uncontrollably that was the first time i realized i was clinically depressed but then it turns out i wasn't supposed to be in the morning session i was set up for the afternoon session and then so they like i got booted and

then they brought me back for the afternoon and i didn't cry in the afternoon there's a few metaphors you're not a morning person not a morning person first metaphor um have to practice things once to be good at it have to like do a rehearsal and uh when you're one of 10 kids your parents forget shit um i got a theory for that though like our generation of parents were too busy trying to survive you know what i mean this is what i talked to roy about roy woods jr was here last night and like there's a level of arrogance in our generation to like think well where what happened there it's like motherfucker first of all i had problems and then the generation before me it's like you go back one or two generations and they're all illiterate

that's first of all that's right and uh the all my people were illiterate farming people so like i'm who am i laying these expectations at yeah what i mean when a first generation had the luxury of healing. Yes. And actually changing things we don't like. Yeah. It's a luxury to be able to go get you. Absolutely.

And I don't even say it's a luxury. It's like, uh, I don't like getting into like the, you know, the privilege of our, it's like, I just feel like it turns people off in terms of makes you feel bad about a

thing that like we should all be entitled to. Right. But you're absolutely right in that the hierarchy of needs in terms of just like food shelter clothing and then we just a lot of our families just solve this like in the 90s that's right no you're right like out of the the muck so to speak absolutely so so yeah but i'm i'm happy that you're uh it's just i the i like really genuinely admire like the fact that you don't have any shame either about or maybe you do and you've gotten over it but i wrote shook one that came out of uh my book agent pressing me to do a second book i didn't want to do a second book first one was black privilege first one was black privilege you know i put my my life up to that point into the book so when they come to me about

a second book i'm like what the fuck would i write about like you know yeah and then and also at that point i was the most confused i had ever been because let me see that was 2018 20 late 2017 early 2018 so i had started going to therapy in 2016. So you already know when you first start going to therapy, that is the most confusing time of your life because you're unlearning so much shit. And everything you thought you knew, you realize I know nothing.

So I'm like empty when she's asking me this, but I was keeping a journal of everything that I was learning in therapy. And I was like, man, I got this journal of things that I was learning about myself in therapy. I said, maybe we could put that out. But what I realized when I started writing the book was the things I was learning in therapy was for me to understand. I couldn't explain it to people. So what we ended up doing was i just put my experiences that i was going to therapy for in the book and i bought in an actual psychiatrist you explain to people i couldn't explain like why certain traumas impacted me the way that they did i i can now i couldn't then give me an example oh man um this is gonna sound

crazy and i'm trying to find one of the lighter ones no you don't have to yeah but then you've come to the right place you want yeah just something as simple as like putting out a first book having extreme success with that book but still dealing with depression and panic attacks. And even though I've had- Despite the fact that more money, more visibility, more respect. And even though we've done book signings and they were insane,

still being in LA, trying marijuana for the first time, not for the first time, but for the first time in a long time, which was a bad idea, trying to get rid of the anxiety, right? Not realizing Sativa makes your anxiety going through the roof, and this new weed is something totally different.

So now I'm in my head like, look at this stupid motherfucker about to overdose in LA off marijuana, you know what I mean? When he's at kind of like at the height of some of his success. Typical new stardom shit, you know what I mean? When he's at the height of some of his success. Typical new stardom shit. You know what I mean? So that's driving me crazy. And then me and my wife in the room and I'm just telling myself all of these different things. There's no way this woman could have liked me all of these years. We'll be together 25 years this year, but in that moment I'm like, there's no way she likes me i'm like you know what she she she wanted me to smoke weed because she wants me to die we just got a life insurance policy like like all that stupid shit yeah you know what i

mean but i i can't explain that to people i can't explain like which part couldn't you explain the the success part or the i think it's easier for me to explain now um i couldn't explain it back then because i was i was still dealing with imposter syndrome as well right so even saying i'm successful that voice well let's do a block on imposter syndrome yeah all right tell me about your imposter syndrome my experience of you it's you earned you didn't get any breaks that i'm aware of any steps yeah yeah so why the imposter syndrome because i mean you know you be around your heroes yeah you know what i'm saying like you're handling it pretty well two specials change the game but that's true though like you

like somebody like you you know y'all you created the power show you know what i mean like so it's like you never quite feel like you fit in until you have conversations with people like yourself right or other people that i admire and they've never quite fit in either you know what i mean well that's the other thing is your like uh appeal is if it were baseball you're like a knuckleball thrower explain i hate baseball i used to love it better when everybody you're like a knuckleball thrower explain i hate me uh you're like if there was a lineup of people i wouldn't go yeah he'll be the most successful black radio person got you i just just i'd just be like i don't know like maybe him i'd be on you're being my list of like because you're funny but you don't lead with it you're smart but you don't leave it it's everything's sneaky you know

what i mean? It's like everything's sort of off speed and kind of like, oh, by the way, I'm sure when you started getting a lot of hits on YouTube, I'm sure the radio station was like. I never paid attention. The crazy part is I always knew that I always said I want to be one of the biggest radio personalities in the country. When I started in 1998, that was my mindset. I want to be one of the biggest radio personalities in the country. When I started in 1998, that was my mindset. I want to be one of the biggest radio personalities in the country compared to the

Howard Sterns, the Angie Martinez, the Wendy Williams, the people, you know, Tom Joyner, Doug Banks, God bless the dead, like those individuals. So I knew I wanted to be in that realm. When we started Breakfast Club, I told him, me and Angela, we're going to be syndicated, right? I knew that, but I've always been the type of person just to bury my head in the work. Like, syndicated right i knew that but i've always been the type person just to bury my head in the work like i don't pay attention to any of it so when i do peek my head out and realize like what's going on it's like oh shit well okay how do you how can you kind of will something like that and have imposter syndrome i just knew but that doesn't mean why did you think you would be the chemistry or like well no but think of the difference? Knowing that you're going to be successful at something

still doesn't mean you feel like you deserve to have it or you belong in that position. You just know. But sometimes you can get in those positions and be like, I don't deserve none of this shit, yo. If these motherfuckers only knew. What did you see coming? Do you know what I mean?

Like when you said we're going to be syndicated tell me why you thought that i just knew i i knew the success i was having in radio you know i can't even call it success i got fired four times right think about that you know i'm saying i had gotten fired four times but every time i got fired some i got i got i failed up like i got put in a better position so on this fourth time I got fired from radio in Philadelphia doing mornings, back home living with my mom. When I got the gig for Breakfast Club, I knew we were going to be successful because I had been watching Envy online when he was at Hot 97 and Power 105 and on Shave 45.

Same thing with Angelina. I was watching her on Shave 45. I had guests co-hosted on Angelina's Shave 45. Same thing with Angelina. I was watching her on Shave 45. I had guests co-hosted on Angelina Shave 45 show. So I just knew us three together, if we did what we always have done and we all were co-hosts. So I knew that would work. And if we utilize the internet the way that, you know, we all were individually, we would have some type of success. And I just was looking at the game. I'm like, yo, there's no, this lane is wide open. Yeah, well, that's, it was definitely wide open.

Yeah, I'm like, if we're not, if it's not us that's going to end up being syndicated, then who? Yeah. You know, because at the time there was no. You guys seemed like younger than everybody. And that too. That's very true. Because, I mean, at the time, Tom Joyner was kind of making his transition, you know. And there really was nothing.

The lane was wide open. Yeah. It was just there for the taking. So I just knew what we were supposed to do. We were going to have success. And so then it becomes. And being with iHeart. Being that iHeart likes to syndicate shows.

When you got fired, did you think like, yeah, I deserve that? You were right to fire me. Yeah. No. Yeah. I never thought about it. It's just like, damn, again damn again like i thought that was the way you know who used to say that shit donnell ross i know donnell rollins used to say if you've been

fired three times in radio you're a star he's kind of right yeah yeah so when it happened the first time i didn't i didn't know of donnell then it happened the second time i didn't know of donnell then when it happened the third time with wendy you know i had started to know donnell and i remember him saying that because he was doing his radio thing. And I remember saying like, damn, when's the stardom going to happen? So when I got fired the fourth time, I'm like, well, shit, I must be way overdue. It's a shame Donnell's only been fired twice.

I was like, man, I must be way, way overdue. And then I remember going to see him when we first started doing Breakfast Club. He was at Caroline's and he said that on stage. He said he had a whole joke about when you've been fired three times from radio you become a star and he was like man when they fire you from radio you know you just gone they go from power 105 one charlamagne the god angelie dj envy to power 105 one dj envy angelie and it's like they just erase you and that shit was funny but yeah he was right yeah

you know so i forgot the question yeah okay well here's the here i'll rephrase the question what do you think your shortcomings are when you are when you are yeah okay yeah what do you i started realizing imposter syndrome after i started going to therapy and then i started backtracking and then that made me realize why I felt the way I felt in so many moments. You know what I mean? Like when people would talk about overcompensation, you know what I mean? I can go back and look at certain moments where I was acting a certain way, being a certain way, because I was overcompensating for my shortcomings and creating the whole

character of a Charlemagne, you know, the God, creating that character was to deflect from Leonard. You know what I mean? Maybe if I'm over here- Your real name's Leonard McKellie. That's right. So maybe if I'm over here being this big, boisterous, loud, I don't give a fuck personality,

then nobody will pay attention to- What's funny is you're not that big and boisterous and loud. Well, back then people might say otherwise, boisterous and loud yeah well back then people might say otherwise you know what i mean but back then it's like let me protect them from this person that inside of me is shrinking in in the corner got it you know what i mean that's why you never used to go nowhere i never i've historically never gone and gone anywhere yeah you know i mean back then we would you know go to the clubs and stuff, but I used to have to get licked up and high out of my mind. You know what I mean?

To show up in public back then. Just to get over the anxiety of it? Absolutely. And so it's like, take that lifestyle, getting up, getting drunk, getting high, going out every night, then going right on the radio in the morning. So it's like all that wild shit, not blaming it all on that that but a lot of that wild shit was because we was really living that lifestyle all of us were me and biannuala we was all drunk high out of our minds coming on the air saying whatever doing whatever you know talking to people however okay how did you get over the the imposter syndrome oh man now that's interesting i thought

like i said i started therapy in 2016 i don't think i got over imposter syndrome until december of 2019 how do you know the date so well because you know when you when you start realizing it's when you this is when you brought covet 19 from china to america and you finally got over here when you start when you start uh being still and actually assessing your life and not running from your bullshit, like not running from, you know, well, for me, it was like issues with my father and how my issues with my father showed up in relationships with my wife. You know what I mean?

Because I never had saw healthy relationships prior to that. Like my father and my mother got a divorce. I got mad uncles and aunts who got divorces and it was all because of infidelity. And I remember when I confronted my pops about his infidelity when I was like 17, he literally looked me in my eyes and was like, you only got one girlfriend? He was like, when you get older, you're going to understand. Wait, how? He was confused like, wait, so you just, that's it? going to understand. Wait, how?

He was confused. Like, wait, so you just, that's it? But think about what that does to a kid. You're like, so having one girlfriend is fucked up? Like, I'm up with that one girl? So you spend your, the rest of your existence trying to have a bunch of women to please him. You know what I mean? Like, let him

see me with different women to show him like, yeah, I ain't just out here with one woman. That ain't even what I'm about. You know what I mean? I really do like being with one woman. I've always historically liked being with one woman. So, you know, you get older and I got married in 2014 and I'm literally looking in the mirror because like I said, I always tell people I love my pops.

I love him. He was a good man yeah right he protected provided but he led with discipline you know instead of love and I don't like the way he you know did my mom you know I mean can we stop on discipline real quick do you buy that uh argument that black male sons black male kids need physical discipline because if they don't do it at home, white people do it in the world. No, no kid needs physical discipline. Kids need love.

Kids need affection. You know what I mean? Kids need encouragement. You know what I mean? Like that's what my dad thought he was giving me when I was young, but he really wasn't. He was fucking killing my confidence. You know what I mean?

I always tell the story about how when I was 16, you and i had just got my license and you know i'm driving behind him i'm following him right and he's like do what i do he's like do what i do so i'm driving behind him picking up women extra women i'm driving behind him he runs the stop sign i run the stop sign too so then he pulls over i pull over he gets out walks up to the car and slaps the shit out of me you slap him back no keep going you slap what i do and he's like wake up you ain't see you ain't you ain't see that fucking stop sign i'm like you ran the you told me to do what you do and you ran the stop sign i'm 16 i just got my fucking license so that's where i remember in therapy unpacking that the first time i ever had a breakthrough in therapy

and cried was when i was like oh shit i'm mad at my pops not just because of what how i felt like he did my mom it's more so he used to discipline me for shit he never taught me yeah well that's i find all of childhood a lot like that absolutely especially weird rules like what why would they expect us to know like i'm i've never been here yes how would you think how could i possibly know yes these fucking weird arbitrary and entirely manufactured new rules you came up with i remember and this happened recently happened recently, because you know how you be having those moments in adulthood, you're like, oh, shit. I remember saying to my pops,

because my pops had, as far as I know, two other kids outside of his marriage with my mom. And I had just met one of them. And I think at the time, let me see, I'm 44 now. Maybe she's 47, 48, I'm not sure. And I remember at the time, I guess I was nine. So she was 13. I was like, guess what, dad?

In four years, I'm going to be the same age as, you know, Tara's her name, right? And he was like, how the fuck you going to be the same age as her? She's going to be, she's going to age up four years. And I'm like, oh shit, you know you know he's right but I'm not even thinking about it. It was all like hey you know numbers are new to me sir. I'm new to this whole numbers and aging and there's some

systems here that are fucking foreign and I might have been a little older than nine I don't remember but that recently happened with. Look at after 12 you deserve any sort of physical discipline he would have given you for that and that recently happened with my oldest daughter i forgot who she was talking about but she she said something similar and i and i when she said it i you know it took and you had

to fight the impulse to be like you stupid motherfucker yo it took me right back to that like literally it took me back to that moment in childhood. That shit felt like back to the future. Like, all right, motherfucker, you get a chance to correct history. Yeah.

What are you going to do? And I was, it was, you know, gentle parenting, like, uh, do a little math,

baby like that. You know what I mean? Like, you know, she's, she's laughing like, oh, you're right.

You know what I mean? Like, and it was, it was just that simple. Let's call Grandpa on speaker. Tell him what a piece of shit he is. But I told her about my experience when that happened. I was like, yo, I did the same thing when I was like around your age.

You know what I mean? She's 14, so this might have been like last year. I did the same exact thing. And I told her how my dad reacted as opposed to how I reacted. But there's still the idea that your dad just had his own experience on earth and was like unhealed and then so he takes it out on you and that's his experience and your experience like hey and you there's validity to both of your experience you know what I mean like he's wrong in this situation but like it's all understandable i learned that's another thing

i learned in therapy give your parents grace yeah because my dad was doing the best thing he the best he could with what he had and it goes back to what we talked about earlier we the first generation that had the luxury of healing they were just trying to survive he couldn't even tell anybody he was going to therapy back then think about that yeah and if he did nobody took him serious yeah my mom and got My mom's a beautiful English teacher, Jehovah Witness, super empath. She thought he was playing crazy to get a check. Think about that. So it's like, yo, he was doing the best he could.

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slash N-E-A-L and use the code N-E-A-L to save $5 off thank you magic spoon for sponsoring this episode thank you magic spoon okay let's go to one of your blogs social media yeah tell me because you said you would do the question was what causes you what makes you feel like something's wrong with you or something you feel alone which is why i disconnect because these motherfuckers will literally get online and tell you something's wrong with you all the goddamn time it's dude it's wild it's unbelievable there's nothing productive on social media it's like i was thinking if you want to when they go why do celebrities get plastic surgery go to the comment section of any

celebrity just a photo that's right the amount of criticism they're in for is insane so like because people told them to get plastic surgery you know what i mean like i get why they're doing it because they're they have no power in their life and basically if you have status in the world your social media is one of those dunk tanks that's right where they just get to throw balls and they they hit it you fall into the water so it's just as somebody who gets commented on how have you what's been your arc with it i disconnected because i learned that you know in order to if you want to really lead the orchestra you got to turn your back you know to the crowd and and i remember when they were calling me the hip hop Howard Stern and all that shit like that.

Reading those articles, seeing stuff like that about me on social media, or seeing what people liked about you. What people liked about you may be the things that you don't like about yourself. Because at the end of the day, I'm going home to a beautiful woman every day who don't like none of this shit that I'm doing. You know what I mean? But in my mind, I'm like- Rob Markman What?

Like what? Tazer Dixon All this shit. Like talking crazy to women in interviews, being overly sexual. That was during the era of like, I'm reading Max Tucker and shit like that. You know what I mean? It's all of that college frat boy know, humor is like the shit, right? So it's like I'm doing that on the air. And then when people say, oh, you're the hip hop Howard Stern, like we've all seen private parts.

I've read private parts. Like, oh, this is what they want. You know what I mean? Right. I'm going to give them more of this. Oh, J-Lo's coming here. When she leaves, I'm going to sniff her seat. Can I tell everybody when she comes to the interview, I'm going to sniff her seat.

Like stupid shit like that. You know? So it's like that, reading those comments and people gassing you up, telling you this is what they like about you, like, that right there fueled a lot of bullshit. And so you don't even consider that, like, market research going like, I like that about you. No, no.

Well, what's funny is that the thing people like about you isn't that. But I didn't realize that. So when somebody says you're the hip hop Howard Stern, my dumb ass didn't even stop to think, what parts of Howard? Yeah. You know what I mean? Because Howard's one of the most phenomenal interviewers.

Right, well, you both have the same arc, which is like less that and more insight. Yeah. And curiosity. Or he would speak out against things he didn't like, you know what I mean? It wasn't the baloney ass tall shit that he was doing, you know what I mean? That's the old shit, but you don't know that. I never stopped to think about it.

I'm just like, they like this wild shit. I'm going to keep giving them this wild shit. And then you look in the mirror because, like I said, you're at home with the love of your life. And did you think your wife was just hating and you're trying to sink the ship that's keeping us afloat in my mind i wasn't hating in my mind i'm just like yo i gotta get this money right i gotta this is what's keeping the lights on i don't want to get fired i've been fired four times you remember how that felt when we had to pack up and move back to south carolina like you know with a two-year-old you know and now this two-year-old is older know, and now this two-year-old is older now. Like, I got to, this is what's paying the bills right now.

You know what I mean? But then you realize, like, man, no, none of that shit matters because you are so unhappy. And did the social media, did you, was it hard to quit? When you say quit, what does that mean? It means you have somebody. I haven't been on Twitter in four or five years now. So it went from being fueled by Twitter to the more you grow and,

and, and you're, you're in this game and the more, the more my name grew, the more outlandish shit started to get, you know what I mean?

The more attacks started to actually happen, you know what I mean? And sometimes you go online and you'd be like, who the fuck is this person that they talk about? Like,

they say I'm homophobic, transphobic. Yeah. I hate, I hate black women. But then they say I'm homophobic, transphobic. I hate black women. But then they say I panned to the black women. I'm a Uncle Tom and a sellout. How can I be a Uncle Tom, a sellout and racist? Like I'm getting labeled everything.

I'm gay and homophobic. I'm transitioning and I'm transphobic. Like I'm getting all of this shit at once. You know what I mean? So it was just like, you know i can't listen to none of this it'll drive you it'll drive me fucking well that's the other thing is as much as we all go like i don't pay attention to the comments like you're looking at a human being saying something about you even if you're the hardest motherfucker in the world it gets in six five seven percent that's right so and if you're like sensitive it gets in

40 i heard a fucking trick trick the rapper one time trick trick said man as soon as i turn my phone off i don't give a fuck about what none of y'all motherfuckers talking about yeah and i was like oh shit he's right you know because i'm like why are we in verbally abusive relationships with our smartphones you're absolutely right and it's yeah it's like i'll notice like like if i take instagram off my phone and then i'm like i feel pretty good well instagram i can do for one reason you can filter shit yeah no that's great so you can literally just anything you don't want to see that's right the words and you don't have to see it twitter you don't have no choice so i blocked every word on on instagram except except for uh hilarious and gorgeous and icon i blocked any any word i don't want to see anything anything i know is

gonna fuck up my mental health i block twitter i don't have that luxury so i just choose not to be over there yeah you know and i haven't deleted it yet because it's just like i don't know i feel like you know one day they're gonna pay people for those two million followers, I don't know. I feel like, you know, one day they're going to pay people for those 2 million followers, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. I stopped. I think when I got like 2.5 million followers, I stopped. Instagram kept growing.

Twitter, I don't even go over there. Well, and I don't think that you're a bitch for blocking. Like, I block. Why wouldn't I block? Yeah. Because that's what basically boundaries are, and we all have boundaries. It's like chris is

chris rock's joke about like you only go so far in an argument and like women will say shit and then kind of wince when they go too far like your mom is a bitch and like that um but there's like we yeah it's like if you wouldn't say that if i was near you absolutely so i'm gonna block you from saying things that you wouldn't say absolutely i'm doing you a favor absolutely but yeah it's still hard i i'm trying to think of like in the last 24 hours i looked at something and that like seeped in and and people go literally on twitter just to ruin your day i would tweet out every morning thank you god for blessing me with another day of life and like clockwork there would

be somebody saying i was praying you died yeah i i one time tweeted uh it was i was up early and i tweeted uh thank thank you god for blessing charlemagne with another day of life also this reminds me of another thing i i've done ayahuasca a bunch of times to talk about it endlessly but last time i did it there were some moments that were like difficult like just like woozy and kind of connected to god and whatever and i kept doing your line and we thank god for it all but i was getting my ass whooped in ayahuasca experience yeah i credit you with that too i'm doing it this year like i everybody tells me don't do it till it calls you i feel like it's been calling me the last couple of years and i always say neil brennan said he saw god neil brennan didn't even believe in god he was an atheist until he did ayahuasca i want roy was

on here last night roy did it through my people. It's a two-night thing. Roy only did one night because he got so much from the first night that he was like, peace. He told me the shit he got from it. I could cry telling you what he got from it. Did they tell him he was getting a daily show? You know what? They said they're giving him one week.

That's what Ayahuasca told him. It's going to be in April. It's going to be one week. Ayahuasca said, Leslie's going to do it and be great. Yeah, yeah. And Wanda. And so I got you on ayahuasca. But I meant to tell you that I was literally going, and we thank God for it all.

And I'm getting pummeled. And I had a shaman send me a book earlier this year. That's how I know I'm supposed to do it this year. A shaman sent me a book through Andrew Schultz, and he signed it and everything, and he was like, yo, I've been watching your healing journey, and we've been talking,

so I'm setting up an experience. It might be the same person you use. I don't know. I'm going to tell you afterwards. Off the air. Wink, wink. All right, one of your blocks is crowds. Yeah.

I don't like crowds. I've never liked large crowds. This is one of the reasons. School, cafeteria. School, cafeteria, one of the reasons. I never like going to concerts. I love comedy shows, you know what I mean? But I don't, and I love going to them,

but I just don't like being in those big crowds. And especially nowadays, because you don't know why people are looking at you. Like how Jay-Z said, friend of four, yo, state your biz. You don't know if somebody's like, oh, that's Charlamagne, I fuck with him. You know what I mean? Are they just like, oh, I'm going to get that motherfucker. Because some people will speak and be like, oh, what up, Charlamagne? You know what I mean?

And some people will be like, and even the people that speak, you know you i don't know why you approaching me that might just be to to get me distracted you know i mean so it's like i don't like that's another downside of social media i think meaning you don't know how people know you yeah and you don't know if they're like oh if you got into a feud with somebody absolutely and you're like Oh, are you on his side? Like, you don't know how people know you, what they think of you, what they, if they, or if there's automatic resentment because you have status more than them and

all that shit. And it is, makes people paranoid. That's right. In a way that, but you already had that. You like already didn't like, is it like trampling?

Is it like a fear of like a stampede? Because we live in a world where the only thing that's keeping us safe is um one one of us not going so-called crazy you know what i mean right so our whole existence is avoiding crazy you know what i mean you don't want to be around anything that's unstable or might snap so you can be in controlled environments like okay i know neil you know i mean i'm in a room with people that I know. I've been around before. I've been in this room before.

Odds are no one's going to swing at you. Absolutely. You know, but when you're places that you don't know all of these people, man, that's a lot of energies you're just hoping don't bug out. Yeah. You know? So for that reason, I really don't, I don't, I can't do crowds. What did you do with this at your book signings?

Sit behind the desk. But even that is controlled, right? Because it's a lot of security, you know. If the crazy comes, I don't have to deal with it. You know what I mean? So it's like you're sitting there, you sign your books, you say hi to people. The book signings were interesting. That's funny you asked me that because like I said, I never was, I I wasn't out. There was a time when we were in all the clubs,

Breakfast Club would go around the country and host parties, stuff like that. Like I said, I was drunk high to be able to go out and do that. But I remember telling Angela and then be like, yo, whatever we want to be doing five years from now, we got to start doing now. I don't want to be in the clubs five years from now. So I i stopped going to the clubs stopped doing our annual day party all of that type of stuff and when i put the book out i would have like speaking engagements right um but when we had the book signings i hadn't been out i hadn't been out in a few years so when this book comes out covid came early for you yes basically yeah so when this book comes out man i came early for you. Yes. Basically. Yeah. So when this book comes out, man,

I'm going to these book signings and 800, 900 people are showing up to the bookstores and I'm like, for me? Right? You know what I mean?

And then that's where a lot of the imposter syndrome started to come into place because number one, I'm happy to see these people and I'm like, man, I can't believe these people

care about me enough to buy my book. But also, I don't deserve none of this shit. You know what I mean? So that's a double whammy. It's the crowd and I don't deserve

any of this shit. You know what I mean? But luckily, I was able to just take in that moment. Because in my mind, also your mind said, you know this is never

going to happen again. Even though it did happen again for my second book. But for the first book, I'm like, this is never going to happen again. So you better enjoy the fucking moment. And the funny thing is that what do most people say in line? happen again. Even though it did happen again for my second book, but I was like, for the first book, I'm like, this is never going to happen again. So you better enjoy it. Enjoy

the fucking moment. And the funny thing is that what do most people say in line? They love me. They just like, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. You know, I appreciate it, man. You know, especially when the, after the book was out for like a month, you know, because it debuted on the New York Times. Oh, when they read it, it was like, oh, I had people in line saying, I used to hate you until I read your book. So I was like, oh, shit.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Or even those moments, right? In my mind, I'm this despicable human that does all of this wild, perverted shit on the air. But no, actually, you've been balanced. You give people, there's people coming up to you talking to me about interviews that I didn't even think that they watched. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, man, I loved when you had, you know, Dick Gregory on. I love when you had, you know, an honorable minister, Louis Fradkin on. I love when you, like, it was that as well. And it was those, you know, those moments where I would, I always would talk about my life and talk about things that I learned. That's why I was able to, my first book, I was able to write these lessons that I learned in my life and talk about things that i learned that's why i was able to my first book i was able to write these lessons that i learned in my life those eight lessons that i put in my book that's what i had been living off for a while so i was always giving those lessons out i just never had documented them in a book so people they gravitated towards that too so the thing that i even thought people liked me for they ain't give a fuck about that shit well that's what i was saying it's like

that's not what people like but they don't they don't no so i got them caught in my own head like i said reading comments yeah but that also shows you that the internet is the bottom of the barrel right like do you really want to cater to think about a person who would make a comment on the internet like i don't think i know anyone that would make it like that's right that it's just people that are have bad lives and they just take a shot at somebody with that looks like they have a good life and it really hasn't changed at all at all it's gotten worse yeah so you really cater you really want to cater to these idiots yeah you know and i see so many people doing that now that's why i'm able to recognize it like i got a lot of friends whether they're political pundits whether

they're comedian i'm like bro don't play to that crowd yeah you don't want that i can talk to somebody and be like that's not that's twitter talking bro yeah it ain't even you you know i hate that shit yeah what was the shift in the in the imposter syndrome because i can say for myself okay it was i just did enough things on my own without dave for lack of a better explanation, that people really respected and people that I respected respected. And I could tell that there was like the way people's energy was around me was different than it was a year prior. And I'm sorry to say it felt good. Do you know what I mean?

It's like we shouldn't pay attention to what the outside world says, whatever, whatever. But your peers or your, I think you can pay attention and notice the level of respect. I think the shift for me was remembering something that my father always told me is that you're never as good as they say you are, and you're never as bad as they say you are. And also a great mentor of mine, my man Cadillac Jack.

Cadillac Jack would say, remember the rule of 10. Three people going to like it, three people not going to like it, four people don't even give a fuck. They just sitting around waiting to see what the popular opinion is, you know? And then I remember having a conversation, I'm going to name drop two people, so pick them up. Tyler Perry. I remember watching Tyler Perry talk about worthiness and how

he dealt with not feeling worthy for a while. I don't remember what his moment was that started making him feel worthy, but he just was saying, when you get to that place, you're going to know. I remember having a conversation with Bishop T.D. Jakes. It's actually documented

because we did it for his podcast. It's on YouTube. I was talking to him about it. And this was something that was interesting at the time because this was something I was unpacking in therapy about being molested when I was eight, you know, by a woman. And I was getting molested at eight. And then Bishop T.D. Jakes, I was talking to him about that and unpacking my feelings of unworthiness. So it was like I was having a conversation with him in that moment, but I was also having that same conversation in therapy. And I remember him saying to me, people who have been molested at that young age usually

struggle with feelings of unworthiness. You know what I mean? They never quite feel secure. And then when I thought about it, I'm like, damn, this woman not only used to molest me, I didn't look at his molestation back then. I thought about it right i'm like damn this woman not only used to you know molest me i didn't look at his molestation back then i still thought she let me get titties yeah you let me suck the titties you know give me head at nine it's like you heard that exactly right i didn't look at it like that so when i stopped letting her you know it's a natural thing inside of you that eventually even though it feels good you like this shit ain't right something ain't right why you don't want me to tell

nobody what i don't understand time or numbers because i'm nine but this is not i know that this isn't right so i remember one time i had you remember those little firecrackers you throw and they pop so i had something she tried to come at me every time adult would leave the room she would try to come at me i thought the pop, pop, throw the firecrackers at her. And when I stopped letting her do that, like, yo, she started calling me ugly and telling me I had a big nose. And that shit stuck with me, right?

So me having to, oh, you ugly, you got a big nose. I felt that way for a long time. Then you grow older and you get in middle school and kids are calling you boonky nose, right? That's what they used to call me in middle school, boonky nose. Pretty good. Great, right? Pretty good slamming.

I didn't realize I'm connecting traumas. You know what I mean? Because me getting called boonky nose triggered me from when I was eight years old and this woman was telling me that I had a big nose. So I thought throughout my whole life I had to please people. I had to give people what they wanted from me, even if it didn't make me happy. Because if I didn't make them happy, they would make me feel bad. Right? So I unpacked all that in therapy. And when Bishop T.D. Jakes was talking to me about worthiness, and he said that to me, and I'm just like, oh shit, I started to connect all these dots as to why I feel the way I feel.

And I just remember December 2019, it was the holidays and I'm sitting in my room at my old crib and I just remember literally sitting there looking out the window saying, yo, I'm worthy, yo. I'm worthy. You know, you look down at your living room and you see the Christmas tree and everything. And I think at the time I only had two daughters at the time. I think it was like 2018, 2019. I had three daughters at the time. So you're looking down and you're like, damn, I'm worthy. I literally would just, I just said it to myself. I am worthy. I am a good person.

I've done good for myself. know and like from that moment on what's funny is when it finally like yeah you can almost physically feel the shift yeah and that's exactly what it felt like it's like yo you are not all of these different you know moments that have happened to you you know i mean like they you are you are those things but you know you're you're not just those things so don't let those things own you and when it's so you're not a boon what is boonky no what's great about kids is i don't even never heard the word boonky and it was a jingle and it gets it it gets its point across one of my one of my home girls had a jingle for it great whenever i would walk in even even better one of your blocks small talk small talk didn't see that coming seeing as that's kind

of your one of your jobs well no i feel like when i'm doing interviews it's a real conversation yeah i you know what i totally agree with you yeah by the way like i don't like it's the it's the introversion thing it's like the like hey when you finally go like i mean recently it's been like a hot it's almost like a astrological sign like i'm an introvert i'm an extrovert or whatever but once you realize it it's not it's that's by the way what people like about you is that you don't i don't do small talk either. I hate it. I can't do it. I'd rather be quiet. Totally agree. And that's how I am.

I can, if we're together, like I'm probably, I'm probably quiet. I'm probably zoned out thinking about something. I might be on my phone, but I'm not like, I'm not there. I don't want to just make conversation for the sake of making conversation just because we're in the same space. That's why I love people who understand that. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I love people who understand we ain't here to make no no no small talk you know i mean that's why my circle is the way that it is like when my friends are talking we're talking when we're not we ain't tripping that we're not i get people want to connect but to a lot of us it feels like the opposite of connection it feels like an insult to actual connection yes like you know we can really connect yeah if you want to and then people do the thing like well this is getting deep and you're like i don't care about where you what your favorite team i don't care how that could give a fuck less yeah and the

crazy part is when you do it for a living like we do that's the last thing you want to do is just have small talk yeah what i mean Like we have conversations for a living. We're always constantly talking. So if we're not actually talking about something, can we cut the chitchat, please? Yeah, and you can do it in a way that you can talk in a way that people appreciate and it isn't bullshit. It's just not bullshit.

Oh, man. And what you were saying about the people trying to make deep connections the worst thing in the world is when you're like at a club or you're out somewhere and somebody takes that time to try to tell you something deep yeah and you're like wow you can only hit them with a wow wow yeah like why are you doing this right now you know i can't really hear you there's i love deep conversation yeah but not here bro this ain't the time like yeah no no yo yo can i speak yo i was molested too you're like we're at summer jam maybe not now sir and you know what you can't feel bad about telling people no, right?

Like, I did that to Prince. Tried to make small talk. Because it was Prince. Prince was at the radio station. This was years ago. This is like, this is literally like when Breakfast Club first started. It's like 12 years ago. We're in our 13th year.

So this had to be like 12, 11 years ago. And we're in the studio and somebody goes, yo, Prince is in the building. And on, this is, we're in our 13th year, so this had to be like 12, 11 years ago. And we're in the studio and somebody goes, yo, Prince is in the building. And like, Prince is in the building. Mind you, it's 6.30 in the fucking morning.

Nobody's there except for the morning show. I'm like, why? We didn't hear nothing about Prince being on the air today. So,

put the studio on auto, go in the hall. Soon as we open, you've been to the Old Brothers Club studio. Soon as we come out the door, Prince is walking by. Like, oh shit, Prince, nicest guy in the world. Soon as we open, you've been to the Old Brothers Club studio. Soon as we come out the door, Prince is walking by. Like, oh shit, Prince,

nicest guy in the world. He comes over. He shakes our hand. I go, I grew up Jehovah Witness too. And he looks at me and he goes, oh, we're going to have to talk about that one day.

And I'm like, when the fuck would we ever talk about that again? Like, you know what I mean? And then I go, can we get a picture? And he's like, no, I'm not in the mood to take a picture right now. It's early in the morning.

I respect it. No small talk. Yeah. No small talk. Handshakes. Hey, respect it. Don't want to take pictures. Hey, we got to talk about that one day.

Out. Yeah. That's it. I don't know why I feel the need sometimes time to stand there and talk to the person. You just choke. Just a good old-fashioned choke. You just choked on it. Sativa, we kind of covered.

Yeah, for all the reasons we talked about. Yeah. Because the worst thing you could do is take sativa when you're in a crowd. And not, are we talking any weed or we're talking? No, I love indigo. Okay, so you are one of the people who understands strains. when you're in a crowd and not is are we talking any weed or we're talking no i love into that okay so you are one of the people who understand strains because it's like all just makes me fold in on myself my favorite thing now is this hybrid i do this hybrid it's called uh what's the brand name it's called wana or it's not wawa wawa the convenience store it's like wana i think it is

w-a-n-a and it's a uh's a hybrid. It's a watermelon hybrid. I don't even know what it's a hybrid of. I'm assuming it's sativa and indigo. Or maybe it's indigo and CBD. But it's a watermelon hybrid. And I do 10 milligrams of that. And it makes me feel how I think weed makes everybody else feel. Right.

You know how when you saw people smoking weed all these years? And you're like, oh, shit. When I do that, I'm like, okay, now I get why y'all do this. Relaxed, not anxious, cool. And that same brand has another one that's a great one that's just a straight indigo and if i do five ten milligrams of that same thing like that when i do those i realize why people uh partake in thc great okay this is a good one over committing and not saying no yeah i assume that this you being here is that i'm kidding um you over committed you wanted to say no and you're like i can't no i didn't want to say no but then i had two other things at 11 o'clock that i didn't like you saw me on the zoom

earlier and i was like oh shit but that was because i didn't even have to be on that i saw that that was happening yes and i told my people like y, like, yo, I'm going to jump on at 11, right? But my assistant's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You got Neil at 11, but then you got this other thing at 11. You got another thing at 11. And she's like, stop doing that. That is why I'm here. Like, direct them to me.

And so I have to, you know, commit to that. Like, okay, you know what? Yeah. Because it sounds crazy to you know commit to that like okay you know what yeah and because it sounds crazy right talk to my assistant i know but you realize why people do that that's not some boo it reminds me when i first moved to new york and realized why people wear fur coats all before i thought everybody was just like you're just wearing a fucking fur coat to show up like no you actually might need a fur coat in the city you know i mean it's the same thing you don't just fyi you don't they're still just doing it to where you might have used to climate change might have changed that back in the day man back in my day you had to wear a fucking animal fur in the 90s

it was that's how cold it was i don't i still don't have a fur by the way so all right so how do you why do you think you evercommit? People-pleasing. You know, it goes back to. You don't want to be called boogie nose. That's it. Say it. Wear it up. People-pleasing.

Making people happy. Don't want people to be like, oh, man, you know, I tried to do such and such with him, and he gave me his assistant's number. Yeah. He blew me off. He told me he would do it, and he didn't do it. Yada, yada, yada. You know what I mean?

Like, all of that. Like, it's literally people-pleasing. Like, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like all of that. Like it's literally, literally people pleasing. Like that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. It goes back to that little eight year old boy who was getting molested, who made the woman stop. And when he made that woman stop,

that woman put every insecurity into him telling him he's ugly. He got a big nose, you know, nobody's going to ever like him. Yada, yada, yada, yada,

that shit. Okay. Well, how do you deal with the idea of someone else's judgment because that's the that's not easy still not easy right so how do you how do you compartmentalize it or how do you see it is it just like that's just part i saw somebody said jordan peterson said that if in order to be a leader you have to be comfortable with not being liked. And that, I don't even know if I agree with it, but I think I agree with it in some way.

I think I got to weigh my intention over the impact. Because at the end of the day, we say our first, last, and best love is self-love, right? So, you know, if you're not happy, if you're not satisfied, if your cup isn't full, how are you going to pour into other people? So I consider myself a public servant. Like, I really do feel like I'm here to be of service to others. But service to others doesn't mean, you know.

Disservice to yourself. Disservice to yourself. Making them feel good at your expense. So if it's not going to make me feel good, then I just got to simply say no. And if that person doesn't understand that or respect that, you know, then you probably shouldn't have been doing nothing for that person to begin with. And I don't owe anybody no excuses. Like I don't have to call and be like, hey man, I'm not coming because I'm having a panic attack. You know what I'm saying? Hey man, I'm sorry, man. I overcommitted, man. I should have directed

you to my assistant, but I didn't. Now I got this other thing to do that honestly is more important. You know, I get, I get what you got going on, you know what I mean? But honestly, what I got going on is more important. I'm happy to be here because I like having, I genuinely like having conversations with you. I do. I've always enjoyed listening to you and I enjoy having conversations. So'm like oh neil called me to come to the podcast i'm gonna

go do it i'm i'm actually free i mean i got some zooms you know what i mean but i'm saying how do you deal with if someone you didn't want to talk like do you deal is it is it one of these things of like i'm so busy that i can't do everything and that's fine and i pre-forgive you i'm fine i guess you gotta let them argue over you being an asshole. Because everybody's experience is different, right? So if there is something- Meaning you just accept like, yes, I'm going to have to live with the fact that you may think I'm an asshole.

I might be a villain in that person's story. I might be an asshole in that person's story. Hopefully there's enough people having enough conversations about me that if you talk to 10 different people, you'll probably get 10 different things. But at least there might be one consistent thing. And that one consistent thing i hope is that oh he does he shows up for you you know what i mean yeah that's like because you're not gonna win them all because some shit i just don't want to do and people get offended when you like i don't want to do that like why why because i don't want to yeah like i can't like you know how you like one flavor of

ice cream but not another that's it right some shit just ain't for me and well do you get offended by shit no you don't get offended by somebody not wanting to not at all fuck with you or somebody at all and i guess because because it's kind of the same thing you're dealing with somebody else's judgment yeah of you and i know how i know how that feels you know so no i don't and also when it comes to rejection man i think if you've been in this business long enough you know how to deal with rejection you know what i'm saying fury oh just get furious about it and really take it personally and that's my plan you know it helps you with rejection when something gets turned down

and it may not have been for that person but then somebody else loves it and yeah picks it up and it you know like it just wasn't for that person like and i never take that personal you go pitch something and something like i'm not feeling that you know what i mean but like there's nothing you can do and then you can do about it it just wasn't for that individual i'm trying to force it down that person's throat you know what i mean like no i'm gonna go over here yeah and this person is gonna put put it in their mouth willingly one time i was pitching a movie with a buddy of mine and a guy named mike sure who's gone on to do created parks and rec and good place and like killer wow we were pitching a movie i mean here's

two i don't want to tell that story but one of the stories is in the middle of a pitch we're just bombing just getting nothing and i look over at sure and he's talking and it was like the sound went down and i just saw like one bead of sweat coming down his fucking cheek and i looked at the guy and i go we'll come back with another one like well don't worry about this like we'll just come back with another like we're just you don't like this one there's nothing we can do like fine and tell me that just tell me yeah it's like you just don't like it and i get it cool goodbye like i like some movies more than others and some of the movies i don't like are extremely popular absolutely so you know i get it like we're allowed to have taste it is hard that's the beauty of age is that you really learn how to not take shit personally but man it took me 30 years to figure

that out i read the four agreements who knows how long ago a decade or better right probably longer and that four agreement of uh don't take things personally what people do is not because of you you that shit you don't realize that till you get wild older like yeah what i mean it's hard because me don't take things personally what other people do is because of them and not me what huh you know well they they say don't take the bad stuff personally but take the good stuff personally yeah and it's like well i can't this is very inconsistent yeah because you want the good stuff to seep into my self-esteem but the bad stuff some mix up yeah and it's like yeah but

that's my dad you're never as good as they say you are you're never as bad as they say you are it's just all it's just all noise at the end of the day yeah you just got to be here with it like all everything that you're looking for has to come from inside i know it's the but the world really competes with the messaging on that the the world is constantly going like it's over here yeah it's in this drink yeah it's in this it's this shirt yeah it's this achievement it's this and you truly have to like make a concerted effort like no that it's can never be that that's right it cannot be i'll participate and i'll try to win when i do it but like it can't be that it might be some of those things but do those things because you genuinely want to do those things yeah i like drinking drinking now is better for me because i'm not overindulging like i'm not

drinking a whole bottle of motherfucking you know remy martin you know just because i'm really trying to suppress all of this anxiety like i'm not doing that but when i'm out i i truly understand why they call it spirits you know i mean i can have two you know double shots of tequila and be good all night long because i'm drinking because i actually want to yeah i'm not drinking to suppress anything i'm drinking because i'm feeling festive because i'm out with my people and you like people yeah yeah you love crowds all of a sudden no i love my i love my crowd like i love that circle i choose to be with in that moment well and i know that i'm contradicting myself because i said that like

my self-esteem changed when i got more respect from other people but it's i wish i didn't i wish i'd just gotten it from some core soul wisdom but unfortunately we don't live in a it it's a fucked up it's a crazy existence mine was core soul wisdom when i realized i really am who i say i am meaning that when i started to actually you know do the work on myself and like the hardest thing to cut out was like other women right when i you know and i call it sobriety i mean that's why me and your dad never did it we never cut out other women that's why i call it sobriety because it's like yo i haven't even thought about being with another woman since 2016 you know i mean like october 2016 and i'm like yo this is one of the things that i have to cut out in order to be the man that I truly want to be.

Not just for myself, but for my wife, for my daughters. You know what I mean? So it's like 2016 to now. And I don't have the desire in any way, shape, or form. I am so happy. You know, I am so happy with my wife. I'm so happy in my marriage. Like, you know, I'm able to pour into her in a different way.

We're pouring into each other in a different way. And when you cut, when I cut that out, I'm like, okay, I'm not full of shit. Because you feel full of shit. Real quick, do you think cheating is more ego-based or passive-aggressive? It's all ego. Okay. It's 100% ego. You know what I mean? Because as a man, especially in this business,

that's almost like it's supposed to come with it, right? Yeah. Yes. It's supposed to come with it. And if you're not doing it, you feel like something's wrong. Goes back to my pops. My pops looking at me saying, oh, you only got one girlfriend? In this business?

Oh, you ain't got no hoes? You know what I mean? You hoeless? You know what I'm saying? So it's like you think you're supposed to have a bunch of different women. You know what I mean? Like you're out at the club.

You know you're hosting a party. There's supposed to be a flock of women coming in here. And when I realized I cut that out and that was no longer a part of my life, that was like a real commitment, right? And I know people say, oh, you're not supposed to get props for doing the right thing you're absolutely correct but i'm just talking about internally for me it's hard and let me know i am who i say it's hard it's also hard to really distill what your actual values are versus what external value what what values you've been told are valuable hell yeah it's fucking really

really hard and it's probably endless by the way like i think so like it even in old age it will always be a challenge not that we're not an old but i'm saying like old old like ah do i really like this sort of corrective shoe or am i just like it because all the people around me are like all right like whatever the whatever the status symbols are of that thing it'll be it's very hard to not just bite i realize that with like things right like you know when you broke you see a bentley and be like i don't want that shit why the fuck would you spend that much money on the car yada yada but when you really get the money and can afford it and you feel that same way you are who you say you are yeah you know you about what you say you about you believe what you

really believe you go why don't you and you're like i don't like it i don't like it that ain't me yeah like it's just that simple that's not me like and i don't need that to feel better about myself you know and i'm not saying that's why people buy those things i'm just saying for me i don't some people just have horrible taste and values. Yeah, I agree. God bless. Absolutely, 100%. But I would argue that it's probably put on them.

All right, final question, and I forget to ask it sometimes. Charlemagne movie, Charlemagne biopic, who plays you? By the way, I never thought you look like Morris Chestnut. Come on. Give it up, Neil. About a dozen times today, I've thought, is this Morris Chestnut that I'm speaking to? I know I texted Charlemagne. He might have sent Morris Chestnut.

You've always been a man with a great eye. Thank you. What's the movie about? What's the character arc oh and who plays you i think uh the movie would be about um man that's a great question the movie would be definitely about a journey of healing you know it would definitely be about a journey of healing i think it would have to be like a coming of age tale. I think the younger version of me, I learned so much from every day. So I'm still exploring

that. So if I did do a movie or a TV show, I would want to do it through that lens. Rob Markman Through like 13? Tazer Duffield Before that. Probably from the time I can remember first grade to about when I started getting in trouble in high school. You know what I mean? Like when I started like running in the streets doing shit I had no business doing because I learned so much about myself now because of that person. You know what I mean? And to like 35 was me not dealing with the things I had, not dealing with the traumas I had experienced in my childhood. And all of those things were showing up in my young adulthood, but I wasn't acknowledging them.

I wasn't connecting the dots. I was acting like my life was different movies. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's not different movies. It's the same well it sounds like you became you were like formed between 8 and 13 and then betrayed that betrayed all the things you learned until you were 35 and then 35 on was like oh that shit was yeah valuable yeah and and man and i'm

thinking about it now and i thought the the people pleasing has showed up in so many different aspects of my life. You said something that made me think about that. Like when I was a kid, I didn't have to do none of the shit that I was doing. My mom was an English teacher. You know, she's a Jehovah's Witness. I had a beautiful grandmother who was a Baptist. My dad-

Oh, by the way, how did you get away with it as a Jehovah's Witness? But that's my point. I didn't have any reason to do any of the stuff that I was doing. I was acting out because I was trying to please people. When I first started getting in trouble in school was because sixth grade, I'm in the advanced classes. I'm wearing glasses. I got a fanny pack. You know what I'm saying? It's only like me and like two other black kids in this class because in all the advanced classes, it was all the white kids. So naturally, I'm hanging around all the white kids. But then like my cousins who were like the goons, right?

The thugs, they hated me being around all these white kids. So they used to bully me. So they used to bully the fuck out of me, beat me up, slam me. So it got to a point where the white kids were like, man, I'm not, I don't want to be around you because these guys always coming to beat you up. And my glasses used to always fall off and break. So at one day I was just like, man, fuck that shit. If you can't beat them, join them.

So started hanging with them. That's when all my troubles in school started. People pleasing. You know what I mean? So it's just like my whole life, there's been all of these moments of people pleasing. You know what I mean? So I would explore a lot of that.

And coming into yourself. Absolutely. Or coming back to yourself. Like who you truly are when no one's around. There you go. That's exactly what it is. That's one of the great challenges of life anyway. It's like, who, all right, no one's around. Who am I? That's right. it is. That's one of the great challenges of life anyway is like,

who, all right, no one's around. Who am I? That's right. And then I'm like, okay, you look in the mirror like, when you get out there, be this. And then you go out there and be something totally different. And you might can be all those things, right? Because I can be around those guys and you grow to love like hardcore hip hop. I love, you know, back then in middle school, I loved it.

I still love it now. But, you know, you love the Wu-Tangs and the Onyxes and all that shit like that. But guess what? I also like reading Judy Blume. Yep. I love Judy you know, back then in middle school, I loved it. You know, I still love it now, but you know, you love the Wu Tangs and the Onyxes and all that shit like that. But guess what? I also like reading Judy Blume. Yeah. I love Judy Blume. You know, so it's just like you go back and forth. Yeah, I love Boys in the Hood, but I love My Girl too.

Right. But yes, I would argue that your values are in Judy Blume and My Girl and you're like sort of cultural. your values are in Judy Blume and My Girl. Yeah. And you're like sort of cultural. I mean, my feeling about hip hop has always been like, I disagree with everything they're saying, but I love the way they say it. Yeah.

Like, man, this is bullshit. But say it again. And also, the thing is, we kind of got to go out of our way to do this shit. You know what I mean? The goon shit? Yeah. Like the shit the hip hop artists talk about.

Like, bro, we're in Monk's Corner, South Carolina. Like yeah we don't really have to do a lot of this shit that we're doing it was we named there was different hoods in our in our in the community we named after like it was queensbridge and oh that's so funny shallon and and everybody abided by it not everybody but a few places you know i mean but and even even like people would take on the name of groups like the hit squad like that none of this is us guys that few places, you know what I mean? But, and even like people would take on the name of groups, like the Hit Squad, like none of this is us guys. That's so funny. You know what I'm saying?

So it's like none of this is us. So it's like culturally everyone's abandoning themselves to be this other thing. Yeah, we never really, we did probably later on in life, but at that time we weren't tapping into who we were. You know what I mean? We weren't tapping into who we were. We were tapping into what we were taking in as far as the culture

the music and the movies and everything else is concerned what's the final scene in the movie because by the way if it's a period like what if it is the like the young period you and the flashback the flashback structure yeah I don't know if the final

scene in the movie has happened yet because it would be that it would be me flashing back through adulthood yeah to to my my inner child you know what i mean so i don't i don't know if the final scene in the movie is has happened yet if that makes sense i think it's the td jakes part i think it's the td jakes it's december 2019 right before covid yeah that yeah that could be it when you're like oh i don't have to be this other bullshit no i can just be me no that could be it i never thought about it but yeah that could be it because i would do i wouldn't it's not like it'd be a continuous tv show it'd be on some everybody hates christian right it'd be like four seasons if top um what i'm saying i'm i'm thinking more two hours yeah yeah yeah like a private parts

and it doesn't i just say that it's because you brought it up yeah um and the most helpful things you've done in terms of mental health therapy period therapy period because therapy opened the door for everything else you know i mean my homegirl debbie brown i give dev props i give that props it's like i give you props all the time dev uh told me like look therapy is great you know therapy gives you the language helps you to understand what you're going through but at some point you're gonna have to do some real healing yeah at some point you're gonna have to actually deal with that trauma like you know what i mean like you're gonna have to actually go out there and do some things to deal with that trauma so everything that comes with that whether

it's the brain training whether it's the float therapy whether it's the you know plant-based journey whatever it is to help get that trauma out, the deep tissue massages, the meditation, all of that started with me going to therapy. So therapy is absolutely the gateway drug to healing. So that's been the most important thing. Therapy was my cocaine that led me to crack. I don't know why you had to bring crack into it. Ladies and gentlemen, Charlemagne the God.

He helped himself. I helped myself. We can all help ourselves. Peace. Bye.