Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Craig Ferguson

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Comedian and former late-night host Craig Ferguson joins Neal Brennan on the Blocks Podcast to explore the "blocks" that have defined his life and career. From his upbringing in Scotland and the impact of sectarian violence to his iconic run on the Late Late Show and over 30 years of sobriety, Craig opens up with deep introspection and his trademark wit. They delve into the realities of fame, the importance of vulnerability, and the turning points that changed everything.Check out Craig's new series 'American on Purpose' on CNN. 👍 Like, Comment & Subscribe for the Algo 👍 Subscribe to Craig Ferguson:  ⁨@thecraigfergusonshow⁩  0:00 - Introduction: The "Rapport" Between Neal and Craig 2:35 - Growing Up in Scotland: Violence and Affability 7:12 - The Influence of Producer Peter Lassally 10:11 - Lessons from a Holocaust Survivor14:15 - Navigating the World of Late-Night Television17:33 - The Reality of Human Relationships in Showbiz22:20 - The Illusion of Fame and Success23:51 Sponsor: BetterHelp25:43 Sponsor: Superpower28:10 - The Turning Point: Choosing Sobriety in 199234:11 - Understanding the "Conundrum" of Alcoholism42:25 - Facing Fear: Learning to Fly and Control Freaks46:27 - Magical Thinking and Superstitions52:05 - The Power of Introspection54:50 Sponsor: CookUnity57:19 Sponsor: Bonobos1:01:45 - Life as a Father and Husband1:09:25 - The Impulse to Tell Stories1:16:10 - Measuring Time and the Collective Unconscious1:23:00 - Outro Thanks to our sponsors! Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/NEAL Visit https://www.CookUnity.com/NEAL or enter code NEAL before checkout for 50% off your first order. Head to https://www.Superpower.com and use code NEAL at checkout for $20 off your membership. Get 100+ biomarkers tested every year. Plus a personalized health plan and on-demand care team. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpodFor 25% off your order, head to https://www.Bonobos.com/NEAL and use code NEAL. ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail]) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guys, hi, it's Neil Brennan. This is the block shut up. Oh, no. Say, stay out of it. I thought you'd forgot my name. I was trying to help you. Please. I was trying to remember the name of the talk show.

I remembered it. I remember the name of the CNN show. This guy is, my guest has a new series called American on purpose on CNN. I want to show you why I became American on purpose. He used to host the Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson. Ladies and gentlemen, Craig. Have you figured out who it is yet? Guys.

Please clap. And he's a fucking really funny dude and a very instantly charismatic charming guy. Instantly we have a rapport, I'd say. Oh, I think so. I think you have a rapport pretty easily. You're pretty slutty with your rapport, if I'm honest. You know, I throw it around a little bit, but I'm rapport equal opportunity to rapport. I mean, I rapport with anyone who rapport back.

I think rapport is a two-of-ease street. It is. But you have chemistry with most people. I have chemistry with a certain kind of person. I don't know if that's true. Because I think you are very attractive both on the podcast. And when you do your stand-up, you're very, you look like someone who knows what they're talking about. Maybe it's your glasses, but I don't think so.

I think it's you. But even that, people don't like people who look like they know what they're talking about. I know, that's why I say. I have rapport with certain kinds of people. If the person respects someone who looks like they know what they're talking about, then we're fast friends. Right. If they're, most people don't like that?

They don't like it. I don't have any friends, so you'll have to tell me. I believe that. I don't, I really don't. I keep my friends to them. I'm very, very small group of friends. Let's just get into the podcast. Why?

That's his first block. Limited friend group. like small people so I really I don't have small friends that's so stupid I'm sorry it's fine yeah you know I might cut it out I think I might give you a lead I'm gonna I'm gonna because a lot of people were would have turned off I did they would take this oh fuck yeah I'll wait for someone clever okay so you small friend group a minor no new friends what's your what's your feeling I think that you are more opinionated and more irritable than you let on.

Oh, 100%. I think that's absolutely, that's very astute. I look opinionated. You look affable. I do affable because I grew up in a very violent situation, not at home. I mean, my family weren't violent to me. But the... Wait, say, what do you mean to you?

They were violent to neighbors, to pass us by? No, no, no. I wasn't raised by a crime family. Well, I don't know anything yet. You genuinely don't know, right? No idea. I was raised in Scotland in the late 60s and 1970s. Yes.

Or the 60s and 70s really. And it was a time where I was raised was very jumpy. You know, there was a lot of sectarian hatred between Catholics and Protestants. Right. It was kind of adjacent to the Troubles in Ireland. There was a lot of that stuff. Trouble is one of the greatest terms names for conflict. Yeah, violent.

It's so fucking Irish. Yeah, it was a wee bit of trouble. It's a wee bit of trouble there. They're killing each other. Oh, it's trouble. You know, there was the story. Let's not make a big deal with it. This is a true story.

A friend of mine told me this who was at a funeral for an IRA soldier in Belfast. And at the end, you know, the funeral part of it is they shoot, you know, you get the salute with the guns. And they fired a gun. And somebody had a fucking pigeon. And it landed on the coffin. and the priest said well sure the pigeon was involved

he used to say that about somebody who was in the part of the trouble yeah he was he was affiliated he was involved he was oh that's very funny and so you grew up around violence you grew up in a violent time and a violent threat of it and the the

and the actuality of it and so what do you do is you you develop in a half of it Is there violence in your neighborhood, in your region? Yes, and by school we had a, they had corporal punishment at schools when it was outlawed just after I dropped out of high school. But corporal punishment, yeah, just in time. It was outlawed by the European Court of Human Rights. That's how far they had to take it before they get rid of it. But they used to belt us.

We were very, very young. I mean, I'm five years old. I'm talking about being thumped by a thick leather belt that was especially. made for the purpose you had to hold out your hands and he would just back this is catholic school no this is protestant well state school right okay but so it's a state it's a protestant it's a state school it's the government school and it was and there was a lot of kind of i would think i think of it is normal like pushing and shoving and violent with young men but but i i don't think it is that normal really i've when i've talked to people who grew up outside of that they did not

grew up with violence between young men I think of it like my oldest son who's 25 he grew up in California I would be like teaching him how to box and stuff and he's like dad it's not Scotland this is for to burn calories it's so I can have a beach bod yes but I was like I you know keep your left up and all that kind of stuff he's like what are you talking about I'm going to our class you know I mean we live in Brentwood yeah well it almost yeah it was that Westwood yeah there you go and it was it so it was a kind of of you develop a people pleasing thing I think that's right yeah that that affability

becomes a useful tool you know you think a lot of Scots are like that as a result because it doesn't seem you seem I will say that the Scott comics I'm aware of and know are really really applicable like really like fun and like they can make small talk and it's very charming and moms like them and girl like you know what I mean depends on what part of Scotland are from to be honest because I'm from the West of Scotland, which is, I mean, my grandparents are Irish, you know, and so there's a, there's a kind of difference between the East and the West of Scotland, weirdly enough. It's 45 miles, you know, from Glasgow to Edinburgh, but there's a world of difference. Yeah. So is it, the West is more Irish, do you think the West is more Irish? And would you say put it on a darker, is it a darker note? I think they're all pretty dark. I think the whole thing is on a dark. No, I think, I think anyone who does. stand up as a darkness anyone at all I'm talking anyone I completely agree the most like

you know uh affable yeah lovely Louis Anderson was the the best I knew Louie yeah yeah there's a lot of darkness yeah I can't stay long I'm in between meals so bear with me okay so you find yourself affable as like a survival in mechanism I think I think that that's fair enough to say I think it was probably developed I genuinely I'm not looking for trouble no you know. But you know how to like you can I can hang you can hang you can give somebody a real good three four minutes most people I think so I think I think I think what it is is that I also developed it a lot more through Peter LaSalle do you know who Peter is the producer yeah yeah Peter that's interesting he he produced the late late show yeah he had produced letterman

legend of yeah of that kind of thing he had produced Johnny Carson for 35 years oh right he had done Dave. Yeah. And so the way of what I learned from Peter, just about anything, about any kind of performance or just being active politically and politically, I mean, you know, in life and yeah, in show business. He, he was a real kind of Mr. Miyagi for me. I mean, he really turned me around with all that. In what, when you say that, what do you mean? Well, because I'm fascinated he was the guy who grew up me into late night right he like found you so to speak sort of yeah i i'd been a guest on craig kilburn show and i had just been you know dicking around with craig and just talking and stuff and what were you doing workwise uh the drew carey show i hereby join you in

civil union hooray time for the honeymoon dear oh thank you gerry i'm finally an american i can't wait to get fattened by guns oh right okay that's what i thought i was the english boss on that's what i thought okay so I literally was like I knew I knew you were doing some I just yeah I really and do it's independent movies and stuff and and and working as an actor in writing and and and then I never thought about late night because late night's such an odd thing to me because I never had any I didn't come to it the same as anybody else to me it was like being a fucking realtor you know it was like well it's funny if you're not from a merry I'm Trevor Noah had the same where he's like I guess like this briefly as well it was like oh what

that you know yeah I never really got it um like the deification of yeah and the the i was like well i have some good news it's over yeah well it's a fit as a couple weeks from now if not already it's over the deification so i i it's funny because i get asked about it a lot i get asked about late night i'm like i am uniquely unqualified to discuss late night i never watched it before i did it yep i fucking didn't watch it while i was doing it and how about now i'm not interested so it's like i i've genuinely know less than just about everybody yeah so what did peter tell but peter peter had an immense moral authority and it was very important i grew up this is a kind of convoluted way of explaining

peter to you but it's important and it's it for me to understand peter's alive now uh he is he's very very old okay but peter uh was a holocaust survivor um peter was in a concentration camps when he was a young uh adult really he was in there too he was about 15 Peter was at the same high school and was at the same classes and Frank and I mean it was it was it's like you know when you complain about oh my childhood in Scotland was some people but emotionally unavailable I mean he he could really take control of that for yeah plus he had such an understanding of how to survive in difficult situations given this difficult situation that he yeah the first one he

approached and and he would say some very interesting things first of all about late night he would say to me you're in somebody's house don't yell at them you know don't don't shout and stop that and then he said to me in within my first two weeks of doing the show he said you know you've got a creepy laugh I went really you went yeah you got to stop doing that and I was like he said look I love you but you got to stop doing your creepy laugh it's creepy was he right I don't yeah I think he was I used to go in the kind of like he like that I don't know know I think yeah I had to alter my creepy laugh or something yeah and I did I really I was became very aware of it and stopped laughing in a certain way on stage and he would say

interesting things about jokes when I hear people getting into trouble for things they yeah they've done and you know I've certainly been in that category as well but Peter would always say if we if we had a joke that we'd done on the show someone had led something which is nearly every night because we kind of worked in that way he would say if we were gonna cut a joke out it's it I would always kind of go no we have to leave the joke in and Pete would always say is it isn't it yeah I'm good a joke yeah and the answer nearly always is that's not that good a joke also like what's the reward for the best joke yeah a laugh you know that's it and we got plenty and okay now what's the reward for a mediocre joke a laugh pretty much the same thing so it it kind of my I can kind of draw a few lines that in my

life when things changed and this is not in chronological order but peter is definitely one of them where you know the world pivoted for me a little bit around this individual and and there's a lot more affability after peter and is it are you glad for it yes so it wasn't a adjustment a professional adjustment it was a but but but the the unintended consequence was like you were changed yeah i think that's right he he would say as well he said the best thing you can do and he said When I was trying out for the show, I was just like dicking around. I wasn't paying much attention to it. And he said to me, I want you to take this seriously.

I remember the first time I met him. He said, I want you to take this seriously because if I'm right, he said, this is what he said. He said, I have very few discernible skills, but one of them is finding people like you. And if I'm right, you're lightning in a bottle. So you must pay attention to what I say. I was like, okay, crazy old man.

And it just sounded so unlike anything I'd ever hear. hair business you know it was like so cinematic it's very serious crazy it was like being in a movie yeah and as you say and um cinematic like being in a movie exactly um and and so i it kind of landed and i thought i'm going to listen to him how old were you i was 42 yeah because that's an old you're old to be like look here if i it's like something you'd say to like a young female right exactly i wish that ma'am when i was young but i wouldn't listen to him when i was young no And it was funny because I remember I was 42 at the time. I'm 64 now.

So the idea of, I remember like some NBC executive at times saying, I were not worried about Ferguson. He's too old to start a late night show. I'm like, am I? I don't know. But I was 42. I don't think that's too old. And it did well, right?

The show? Yeah. It did okay. Yeah, it did all right. You were on against Conan? Yeah. We were on against Conan for like four or three, four or five years. I can't remember because of that.

Oh, when you were a lot, yeah. And then Jimmy came on and he was doing that. And then Jimmy moved up when Conan moved out and Jay and all that mess. And then I think I was still there when Seth moved in as well. I mean, I came in. I did it for 10 years. Yeah. And did you like doing it?

I did. I liked it for a long time. And then I didn't. I liked it because I was. was I was I was I was it was possible for me to hide and what I mean by that is what was is this is like David Letterman owned the time slot mm-hmm fit like fit like not physically but like he owned the rights to the I know he's you can't own time so no it he didn't own time Dave can't Dave can own that's why he's wow what a deal since he got out beard he owns time fuck yeah no he's amazing no Dave owned the time slot because of the deal

that he had made. He got to decide who would go on after. Right. So CBS didn't pay any attention. He owns part of the sea as well. Apparently. He owns his time and the wind. He has a small piece of the wind.

Yeah, yeah. And your mind. Some of our conversation, about 40% of what we were talking about is owned by Dave. Fine. And he thought it up. Have it. But he wasn't paying any attention to me.

He was doing his own show. Yeah. So nobody was paying any attention. When I figured that out, like CBS weren't really giving me notes yeah and Dave wasn't giving me any notes yeah and I thought the only people are watching this are people it's a bit of like a foreign embassy in like a peaceful country like it was just a weird piece of no man's land and and so I knew that my tenure of being able to do whatever the fuck I wanted

ended when Dave left as soon as Dave went the fucking the wall comes down and those fuckers are coming for me so how long was it seven years or something that you've been doing it but you'd been doing it when did Dave leave how many days left he left six months after me see I tried to leave after eight years because I thought Dave's not gonna do this much longer and then they came back to me with a deal that was financially very difficult sure so I I stayed for another year and then there was another year and I said I really have to go and we made a deal and then Dave decided to go and so it all kind of slotted then just got it so it actually

you so once he was leaving you knew like oh the get let me leave well we get nothing here for yeah i'm never going to survive once dave's out of the way because well you would have survived but it would have been like under somebody it would have been like a lot of things i didn't want to do yeah and whereas i had gotten a good 10 year run at that show working with the greatest producer who'd ever worked in uh late night television and nobody else giving a fuck yeah you know and which was fantastic yeah it was just a gift it'll never happen again and I realized it was a moment in time which of course Dave Owens but the the it was just a moment and it and it was over and I had to get out before they turned it into something that

that I didn't want to do and also I was tired 10 10 years well it does it feel like Groundhog Day those shows yeah because I I'm friends with some people who have shows like that and I'll have dinner with them I'll go who's on the show tonight and they'll be like oh I know I have no idea That happens all the time. I watched it. You know that? There's a documentary about Leonard Nimoy called Becoming Spock. I never watched it.

I was beautiful. You should watch his. It's more of a tribute kind of thing. It's a gorgeous thing. It's just very, very nice. And I watched it and after I said to my wife, God, lovely man, I should have had him on late night. We looked up and he was on twice.

If only I'd met him. If only I'd met him. And it's so weird because, you know, things will come up from that show. I mean, I was at the up fronts last week in New York and there was a lot of famous people around and I kept having to Google them to see if they had been on the show so that I didn't say... And you'd like hold still so you could do the Google image search? No, no, no, I knew who they were

but I had to know if I'd met them before so I had to Google the name and my name together and see if they had been on the late night show. And some of them had and some... Okay, well this leads into what we're talking about, which is, so how do you feel about human relationships? meaning because I realized something about myself recently is like I read in I think all these relationships should be deep and long lasting and I've come to the conclusion like nope they're not even supposed to be that like you know work wise I'd always want to like let's all get bunk beds and we're going to hang out and we're going to and it's going to be like I watched the Martin short documentary on Netflix I haven't seen them yet and it's just all home videos and it's all the cast of SCTV and Tom Hanks and Steven Smith and they're all like jet skiing and they're water skiing and Steve Martin and it's like really sweet and I'm like that's what I

thought it was going to be and it's not it's never been that it was not that for them either I mean well I know I don't want to be that cynical but it's no I mean you've run it enough of these guys yeah yeah you know it looks like that and it is like that sometimes I mean yeah what I think is interesting you know that's why the green rooms and the comedy festivals are always quite interesting because it gets to be like that for a minute you get to but I didn't I didn't go on a stage on my own because I wanted to hang out with other people you know I went on stage on my own because I was I had been a drummer in bands and I fucking hated guitar players and drummers and well I didn't mean I

didn't mean any drummers but I hated guitar players and bass players and singers because you had to deal with these fuckers all the time and then when you were when you were working on your own it's just you yeah and that's I mean don't even have a warm up i go i'd do it myself yeah yeah i don't have an opener i'd go out and do and you would do more you would do the lights and the sound i would do i i'm the audience some nights as well i will be honest that's cool and an it was inevitable but you know what you find out of yourself you find out what material works yeah what's who you do in the call right well as it turns out myself um but i think that it is like that it is collegiate sometimes but ultimately i think it's uh i didn't have

I had the experience of being from a big family, so I thought, like, oh, it'll be like a big family. And it's not, it's not supposed to be a family. But I just trick myself in thinking that it would be. Do you think sometimes, this is a product of age. I used to think people were, you know, people were out to get me sometimes in the competitive world of show business. And it was only fairly recently, I'm talking in the past 10 years or so, that I realized nobody's out to get you.

They're out to forward themselves. They don't think about you at all. I think there are people who momentarily will be jealous of you. Oh, sure. But, like, it's anyone who doesn't realize that it's golf is, is like, you're playing the course. It's not like, I don't, if I think of a joke, it doesn't, somebody doesn't not think of a joke. But you know that thing Gore Vidal said is, it's not enough that I succeed, it's that my friend should fail. Yes.

There's a little bit of that. There's a little bit of that, but I'd say I would argue with age. It goes away. It goes away. For sure. Because you just, it's, you realize like, there's no correlation. Yeah. And also, what, the demystification of what it is.

One of the things I'm very grateful that late night did for me is it demystified fame and success. And to a large extent, money, look, I'm not against money. Money's great. If you're not got it, it's just the worst. But it's limited in what really it can do. And success and fame. Kind of the same I think that it's great to have them, but you know that lump's still a lump. Yeah Yeah you know it's like fear still fear everything so you know about my lump. You have a lump. I'm actually I didn't want to bring it out

but you're aware of my lump. It's kind of obvious. Um the yeah and that it it is comforting and like also like being hot being less hot being hot being hot that's like very weird because when you get one of the most cynical things I ever had was the best time to buy a house in Los Angeles was September because everybody who gets their pilot picked up buys a house in August and it gets canceled in September and they have to sell their house so you get it I mean it's horrible yeah that's what but that's how we built our real estate empire that's how I made my money and how do okay so we're we're jumping around but so you're so friendship you just your wife's your friend oh well I have a couple of close friends I have a couple of friends I've had for a long time.

I have a buddy of mine who I met, my buddy John, a Scottish guy. I've known him for 34 plus years. And we've been friends all that time. And I have friends from back of the day and people I'm always happy to see and friends who I like to see, but people who I hang out, hey, do you want to go and hang out? I don't think I've got to go any of that.

Yeah, well, once you stop drinking, not drinking is a big, like say goodbye to 90% of of real engagements? Well, it's different. I mean, listen, I stopped drinking. I went to a lot more meetings than I'd been going to before I, before I'd stopped drinking. But the, it becomes different, for sure. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Come on, come on, come on. You know, they should all be, it should be, I should get two Better Help ads of a show. I feel like I've seen podcasts that have that. Anyway, I don't want to compare. That's what I'm using. It's what I'm talking about in my therapy. Guys, I've talked about BetterHelp forever.

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It doesn't end when you leave superpower.com. I was mystified when I stopped drinking because... When did you stop? Ninety-two. For what reason? Alcoholism. But like, bottom, Peter Lassali?

No, I hadn't met Peter yet, but I felt his breath. No, I think it was... There was a number of different things. The one that I've talked about in the past is, you know, I woke up one Christmas morning and I was on my way to commit to this. which felt like a very rational thing. I mean, the interesting thing when people talk about, there was no dramatic music.

It was like, oh, you know, this is what I should do. It felt like a rational thought. You know, what I should do is... When you say on your way... It was Christmas morning. I'd woken up in a pub. I'd meant to get home at Scotland. The pub was in London.

I'd never made it. I didn't embarrass myself. I had, you know, it was a fucking mess. It was terrible. I hadn't got home to my family. I was... And the normal hangover is exacerbated by the deep and profound shame of the alcoholic having a hangover.

So you've got that spiritual high over and that. And so what came into, like a very clear throat in my head was I must go and kill myself. I must go and jump off Tower Bridge. That's what I must do. I was in London. And Tower Bridge is the big fancy one. If you're going to clear something. You know, if you're going to do it, do it right.

So I'm on my way to do it. I'm about to leave the pub. And my friend Tommy, who had slept behind the bar. No, I don't know. That same night or just some of that? That night, he'd slept behind the bar. He was the barman. I don't know if he was an alcoholic, but he slept behind the bar.

So he was an Irish guy. I didn't want to tell him I was going to go and kill myself because I knew he'd make a fuss. So I said, I'm just going back and said, well, before you go, have a glass of sherry for a Christmas morning. And I said, all right, so he poured me a fucking venty sherry, like a pint glass with sherry. I don't drink sherry.

And we both had a glass of sherry, and we toasted, and I said, baby Jesus. He said the infant Christ and we drank them and as I drank the sherry I forgot to get myself. I felt great and it wasn't until years later, well, maybe not that long, maybe a couple of months later when I was in rehab. I reread the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and it's a fascinating written by a Scotsman of course because it would have to be. It's a fascinating look I think alcoholism amongst other things because in the story Henry Jekyll, the respect. doctor drinks the magic potion and goes out he commits a murder and then he's back in the park and he's he's still sort of mr hyde and he wants to be mr he's henry jekyll but he kind of looks like

mr hyde and he has to get into his house because he knows and of course his servants won't let him in because he doesn't look like him but he knows he has to get into his house because he realizes the potion that turned him into mr hide is the only thing that'll turn him into fucking henry jack again and it is that thing is the only thing that made me feel normal was the thing that was killing me yeah and and that's a fucking finger trap yeah that's that's really hard and it's really hard to figure that out especially when you're in the emotional and mental turmoil yeah and you don't know that you know you know you're not you're not and you're not and you didn't have any you didn't hadn't read any of the literature on alcoholism so

i i'd look i'd bounced around it a little bit i'd sniffed around I'd figured there was something wrong. It had been noticed by other men. But. Fools. It had been noticed by false. Friends and family. What the fuck.

Anyway, the, the, but it, when it occurred to, I mean, there was no cognitive kind of, oh, this is what I'm dealing with. Yeah. It didn't feel like any of that. The rational thought was, I must destroy myself. And then the alcohol went on top of that and I was like, but why? We can sit here all day. And so the thing that's killing you is also the thing that's keeping you alive. That's a fucking conund.

Yeah. And it takes a long, okay, take the alcohol way. Then you have to realize why you're, why you want to destroy yourself. Yeah, causes and conditions, I think. I think you have to, I think in order to, for me, look, other people, like some people get sober going to the church and they find Jesus or they find science or they find science or they find. Who? Something. I have on people, you know.

But what I'm saying is the way I did it isn't the only way to do it. But I feel like in order, for me, in order to get and remain sober, I had to take an inventory of myself from as far back as I could remember and look at the times where things that I had brought up feelings in me, you know, they're maybe getting beaten up at school by these masochistic teachers or anything. Stuff that I had no control over, but it certainly had an effect on me. But here's the one thing that I really like about this is that alcoholics of my type in recovery or the people that I kind of hang with, they are willing to be the villain of their own story.

And I think that's very important. So you look at yourself and you go, you know, who was at fault there? Me. I was a dick there. I need to not be that. I need to change. and it's it's tempting when bad things have happened to you

to say well it was all that and certainly that wasn't your fault if bad things happened to it's not your fault but at a certain point but there are other times than maybe a bad thing happened to you and then you did a bad thing and that is your fault

you know the bad thing that you did is your fault you know and bad it's such a relative term but you know if you what were your I was a singer and a fighter

and a pub man. I like to be in the pub. Singer, why do you mention singer? Well, because we sing. You sing, you sing at the bar like, like, her, did, chat. Oh, yeah. So that's like, and how, what's that a five, six hour night?

Oh, yeah. Five, six day night. You know, you can go at that with the right crew. You can keep that running. And also, you know, and then at some point, if you're in London, some, one of these London media guys going to go, oh, you want to try a little Bampa Kaukine? And then suddenly, you'll just, you'll try a little Bamper Cowkin.

And then suddenly, you'll, you'll just. like oh i can i'm you say a london media guy yeah those are the types oh you doing i've never done i've only done cocaine one oh really where yeah in new orleans in columbia with a guy i don't know what i'm one of my cocaine journeys one of my spiritual cocaine journeys um is there such a thing i bet you there is actually i actually heard one today that they i swear a guy a couple hours ago that they did a zanax journey so it's actually in really interesting and I need to like listen to it again. Somebody gave a bunch of people, maybe 10 people, Xanax.

And they had like musicians playing pleasant music and they were all on mattresses. So they did it like an Iowanska thing, but it was Xanax. And people had spiritual transcendent experiences, which is- Do you know what you used to call that where I'm from? Go ahead.

A party. Yeah, there you go. It's a party. Yes. No, but you guys didn't have that many mattresses though. Everybody didn't get a mattress. Not in one room, Chris. I'm not going to, I'm not, fuck off.

That's how we lived. Everybody lived in one room and we all gathered around the potato. So, so you would, you were just, it was like fun. It sounds like legitimate fun. There's a great old,

that's the other confusing thing about it. I thought I was having a good time a lot of the time. So it's confusing. But there's a great old, it's an old Irish doggerel thing about, you know, so we shared another night of poetry and prose but every man knows he'll be alone when the sacred gin mill closes.

And it is a, there's a weird kind of, the party can't keep going and then you're on your own, and there's something weird about that. I don't know, I can't fucking explain alcoholism and I've lived on both sides of active and not, and I'm as mystified by it now as I was then. But I do know one thing, which is, if I don't drink it, it doesn't start.

Right. No. So it's connected to the first drink. That I'm convinced of. Yeah. The first drink is the one that does the damage. After that, you know, someone else is driving. But if I can avoid the first drink, I can avoid every drink. Is it a daily thought?

No. It was for a while, but it's not now. I don't think about it that. I haven't been known again, I think. It's been 35 years, pretty much. Yeah. More of my life than sober than drink, about twice as much. So it's what I do, but every now and again, you know, it comes up.

More with smoking though. Interesting. I have, oh God, if smoking. I have smoking. I'm like, I quit so long ago and I'm still, would do it. I love that. It gives you cancer though. And that's why I don't.

I'd say, I've said this before. Have you looked up what amount of people get cancer from smoking? I don't want to because I would say, well, here I go. It's, you want a moment to tell you? Yeah. 10% 90% of people don't you know do you know who I I thought percentage I'd be in though of course well you're special yeah I'm special you're so special I'm special you guys see this fucking guy yeah this guy I'm the guy that will get it as they say

in the I just don't feel like I get away with anything do you know what I mean I just don't feel oh the the the 12-step term is terminally unique but but it's a but I'm surprised you haven't heard it I'm surprised you have But also I have a lot of situations where I'm like No, that was I shouldn't have gotten caught Or I shouldn't and I did

Like some anomalies Some obviously were both You're lightning in a bottle So you get it I never said I was lightning in a bottle Pia LaSalleys said I was lightning in a bottle Right But you are lightning at

Outsiders would call you lightning a bottle I don't think you were walking around thinking that I thought you were light I'm the true you thought you wrote some kind of lightning but not a bottle. Hot shit is that's what I thought I was. At least I was just shit.

Yeah. So you're getting laughs at fucking Drew Carey that we're getting laughs on every line. Every line. Every line. Every line. Every line. Even the lines I wasn't doing. No setups.

That sound British to you boy. So you can, I'm with you with like, no, I'm going to get, I don't know if that's even a negative thing or if that's a corporal punishment, core belief. Did you get corporal punishment? I got my, there was a lot of hitting. you know i went to catholic school not so much hitting there but there was at home there are you are you a catholic yeah that's interesting to me are you grew up catholic are you you're not catholic and you were apostate uh uh i'm i'm i believe in a central creation force but not

yeah yeah me too i i don't i don't have any i'm fascinated by the idea of a god and a creative force and the universe and all of that but i i have a hard time with ritual and um particularly The thing that troubles me about with Catholicism is all the imagery. I'm like, I can't keep up with all that. But a lot of Catholic... It's all like Marvel Cinematic Universe. It's just like, I don't... Or Star Wars is a better analogy, because Star Wars is going to put like Grogu?

Who? What is that? I gave up after the... Saint Who? Like, I mean, that's the... There's some really good ones though. There's some really great saints. There are some that I love.

Of course, but it's there are deep cuts. They are deep cuts. I went to Sir Francis of Assisi's, the town in the actually, yeah. Yeah. And you know what I thought, because they have his cloak and all that and bits and his glasses and everything. I was like, this reminds me of the hard rock. I was going to say playing in Hollywood. Yeah.

No, it is. It's all. It's all like the same plexiglass. Yeah. They lit it. They top lit it. Do you know what as well? Have you been to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

No. Well, I have because I know Drew Carey. and it's in Cleveland. So I went to Rock and Hall of Fame. Speaking of drug ceremonies, go ahead. No. Maybe ham ceremonies. But we went to the Rock and the Hall of Fame

and walking around it. And one of the exhibits, they have Buddy Holly's glasses. And I was like, wasn't he you wearing them? I have a question. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm like, I don't think that can be true. Yeah. Well, if you're not, if he has more than

one pair. Yeah, but he was sponsored by Warby Parker. This was the 50s. Yeah, you probably had two pairs. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't, don't, you're not supposed to think about it. All right. Well, I'm with you.

My trouble is. I'm with you. I'm with you also like, so they went to the crash site. I mean, all of it's bad. I didn't ask. I didn't ask. I've also been to the aviation museum near the crash site where they did have debris in Iowa. That's one of those things where you go, ah, do we, is.

well or is it is it i like aviation museums so it's it was it's an aviation museum and the crash it's not a museum dedicated to the crash no no okay so they just have it like off the side nearby uh yeah they needed they got some money they're like how do we expand this museum uh go to the crash site you're already way deeper at two than ever i was on tour and i saw the sign no i can i already i was like why you go to museum i'm like because he's on the road yeah um he's on the road because he's on the road and he doesn't drink yeah well that's right so you see a lot of aviation museums and uh i i love them i like i'll go on a tour i go into flying i started flying because i was terrified of flying kurt russell had been on the late night show and he he's a big aviation

and that doesn't surprise me no meaning like just like what's masculine yeah yeah he does he's pretty masculine yeah you know he uh he said you're you're not trying to fly and you're just a I went, oh yeah? And he set me up with flying lessons with this guy. And I learned to fly. And it turns out I am a control freak. I got a pilot's license. I did it.

I went all the way through it. And is it easier to fly now? Yeah, yeah. For it's easy to be a passenger. Yes. Yeah, I know what the problem is. And it's not what I thought it was. What is it?

Ice is what it is. Ice and bad pilots. That's what the problem is. So it's rare. So it's immigration. I'm kidding. So it's ice on the wings and bad piloting in the face of ice. Most in general aviation, usually it's continued visual flight rules into instrument flight conditions.

That's usually what it is, which is the John F. Kennedy thing, where you're not qualified to fly in the conditions that you flew into and you should have turned around and come back out. Oh, is that what happened with him? I think so, yeah. He got spatial disorientation because he wasn't full. I know it was fog, but I didn't know he wasn't supposed to fly. He wasn't qualified to fly in the conditions that he flew in. Got it, got, got, got. He hadn't had enough training.

Here, I thought it was a magic bullet. Guys, that's his father. Do you know why I stopped doing a podcast, man? I was connected to, I like that the thing I just said may remind of you of you why you stopped doing a podcast. Well, I tell you why. Because I thought about this, it was a Kennedy thing, right? There was two reasons why I stopped doing a podcast.

One of them was the look of horror and anticipation. whenever I run into people I know and I see in their faces of them thinking shit he's going to ask me to be on this podcast and you know what I've stopped I stopped a podcast for that very yeah and then and I think about stopping this one all the time I know no this is a good one thank you it looks good on you it looks good on you you're still got a lot of that show business on yeah but the thing was I was doing this podcast and I got tired of booking guests so I was just doing it my own yeah i was just talking on my own to the and one day i was talking i'd been watching that show about john f kennedy and caroline beset you know the oh so this is recent oh yeah and i was

watching the show and then i was talking about it on my podcast which is basically me talking to my phone and i thought i wonder if a kennedy has ever been eaten by a shark because you got to figure the way life goes for the kennedy's there's uh yeah at least one of them you would think right yeah and i started to think about it on the show and the podcast and then I was talking about that then I stopped and I went away and then I thought I'm going to stop doing that podcast because that idea was a Kennedy of eaten by a shark is actually a piece of stand-up that's not formed and I gave it away too early it's not it's not ready it's and I do that a little bit when if you do that too much you it's an idea about something I don't know if it's about Kennedy's and something there's some kind of joke

laugh thing and yeah but it's not ready yet and I just mused about it and threw it out and now I can't really do it but maybe I can in a different way you you're to quote Jerry Seinfeld you know who's senior act nobody's seen your act you know and I'm to paraphrase again you know who's seen your podcast absolutely nobody's in your podcast but I would also say you know what who sees what you've done everybody everybody you're both right you and yours ever the stuff you go go ahead I hope they sees that that's the one that's that's that's the one that goes viral um all right so we have addiction we have um I'm

these are Jordan Jensen's um uh blocks that that Craig had well I I like Jordan and I thought we probably have a lot of blogs and come okay magical thinking this is a this is a new one because I'm this is this is a no one's pitched this before and I it's I think it's a it's a quiet killer well I I I do I don't know if I'm corrected my definition of it. But magical thinking for me is, for example, I can't wear anything brown on my body, higher up my body than anything blue on my body,

because then everything's upside down and trouble is coming. So this is also one of Jordans that we didn't get to on her episode OCD. Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's OCD or Magical Ling, or if that's the same thing. or if they're sure they're related are there have any of these superstitions or everyone all these these spells have any of them come true no not to my knowledge but I can't say that they haven't either because I don't risk it do you know what I mean it's yeah once

it comes into your head I don't I'm not and they come into your head for no are they the same five or it's no I mean that that kind of shit comes and goes all the time I like for a while there I got into reading a lot about pre-church Christianity in the Egyptian desert in the second and third century the desert I think we've all been there yeah go ahead yeah you know

do you talk about that on your podcast yeah that there's a bit of stand up for you origin of Alexandria Evagrius of Pontus Augustine of Hippo really and of course would that be St. Augustine Augustine? St. Augustine, yeah. He became St. Augustine, right? Of Florida. And the...

And St. Anthony. I mean, you must have St. Anthony, right? Who went and lived in the haunted fort and then moved to the cave. Because too many people were coming to the fort, lived in a cave for 30 years. All of that became fascinating to me. And I became fascinated to the... And it's true? These people are...

Yeah. They're real people. I mean, as far as we can tell. Yeah. Yeah. Origin of Alexandria was actually a very interesting guy because he was excommunicated after he died like years after he died

he was on the way to Saint Hood and then he got excommunicated because he was one of the guys that said you cannot see an image of God there cannot be no image of God that's not a thing that can be and of course if you're they're like we have all this merch

we got all this merch you can't sell merch if it's all wrong so yeah shut the bug out um so he got into trouble but he was dead so maybe that was a big deal maybe it wasn't who's to say the yeah but i get into all that and there was a thing about uh apothea i think it's called in greek it's the idea of constant prayer constant prayer for and and for a while then i was trying there there's this the i can't remember who is the the prayer is lord jesus christ have mercy on me a sinner that's the you just repeat that and repeat it and repeat it and for a while there that there that

I'm not even a Catholic. It was like, in my head, I was like, I would say it all the time. And I got fixated on it, but it's gone. And you don't know why it left. You know why it came, because you're right. I know why it came, because I, you know, I wasn't getting enough sleep.

That's probably what it was. But I'm interested in other people's struggle to define their existence. Whether they lived in Egypt in the second century, Have you ever read Sorin Kierkegaard? Fabulous. Readable?

My issue with the guys like down are just like, look man, I'm interested. No, he's not Schopenhauer. Don't be German. No, no, no. He's Danish. Okay.

Danish Christian existentialist. Very, very tough on atheists, which is I enjoy. And then he does this he's got a book called or I don't know what's a book I think it's a book Fear and Loathing and he tells the story

of Isaac you know Abraham and Isaac like five different times from five different point he tells a story from Abraham's point of view from Isaac's point of view from Isaac's mother's point of view and he looks at it and looks at it and looks at it and goes around

it and compares you know Isaac carrying the wood up the mountain for Abraham to Christ carrying the cross and marries them together and I'm like oh my god this is fascinating yeah and and it is fascinating and it's so deep it sounds like it could be a bit like a good comedy bit yeah I mean I'm gonna be honest with he's not that fun yeah but but not fun premise wise could be a like you can make a I've heard people try bit at least do bits or try bits about about that it feels like maybe you know

like an old Mel Brooks movie or something like no no but just like kill me your son and the what like whatever you can get there but or rashemann or like so yeah i'm i'm that's what i have always admired about you is that like oh this guy likes i think like introspection is a bit of a genre yeah yeah and this guy likes introspection yeah like i like it i like it people like when i like my some of my specials are that and like that's the thing people go oh this guy does introspection and that's what do you think you're always like that do you think or you're you're in these kind of violence situations or sobriety i think sobriety is connected to it because you start questioning everything what did you find getting sober what did you find because you said

it was conditions or or whatever causing conditions i don't know what's in conditions of how you get there. What did I find? I guess fear, I think. There was a lot of fear. You minute to minute were experiencing a lot of fear. As a young person, yeah. And I think as a child I experienced it a lot. And it felt like it was part of me. I felt like it was. But do you realize it or when you look back, you're like, oh, I was afraid the whole time? Well, that's a hard thing because a lot of the times when I think fear you know you try I don't know if you do this but I think I do this I dress it up as like anger or you know something like that or maybe I'm just hungry you know but I don't know it it comes in so many different forms and and so many different shapes and sizes and

moods I'm not sure that you know people will say things like that you know when did you know you'd made it in show business. And you go, that's not a thing. Yeah. You don't make it in show business. When did you know you'd conquered your fear of A, B, or C? Yeah. That's not possible.

Yeah. And to my mind, I mean, maybe it is for some people, but the way my mind works is, you know, it's ready. Well, it's all conditional. It's all, yeah. It'll come back. It's like an appetite or, you know, it's like it, you can have all of it back. Yep. And I think that there's choices that you make along the way to try and cope.

Beyond, besides drinking, how would you cope with fear? Do you think, I mean, you said anger or hungry? Yeah, I don't know if anger actually does any good. I think that with fear, control seems to, or at least the illusion of control seems to help. So the idea of, so I probably am a control freak. The illusion of control. Kurt Russell was right. Kurt Russell was right.

He's always right. Don't you get it. Don't you get it? Yeah. Of course it's funny. You know it was funny when he did that movie when he played Santa? Santa Claus? Live and impersonal.

One night only. On Netflix, I was like, man, he must have given him a lot of money to play Santa. They're like, hey, Kurt, you want to play Santa? Go fuck your show. Yeah. It's a trillion dollars. Oh, ho, ho. Guys, you know, I've been in New York a lot recently.

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I was all too happy to, like, get on board. I was using them when they weren't a sponsor. That's how thirsty and sad I am. Then I'm like, no, I don't need... I just like you guys, whatever. We can work out an arrangement. They came back. So I guess I manifested it.

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I don't know how you how you it changes fear changes I change and I change from day to day and you get older and stuff I think that the thing I like about people that are sober is that they the is that they accept the complication of being a person yeah like like and you just like like okay you just accept you just like okay this is what it is what am I going to do now? Yeah, I think that's right. And what can I do? If I can do anything, I'll do it. If I can't, then that's what I'm going to have to do. I'm going to have to be not do anything. Don't just do something.

Sit there. You know what I mean? It's like you sometimes there's nothing you can do. And that's all you can do. And I guess that's a big lesson. You know, that. But, you know, it's funny. every time I have a conversation like this which isn't that often but every time you

have a conversation where you talk about big things and the things that what's funny is my algorithm is attuned to it so I think I get all of them right when you have these conversations I'm like oh so I think that's all you're doing I don't know you're talking about it's like when you your dog thinks when you go out you go to the dog park you're fucking idiot why don't you take me I'm a dog but it's when I think about these things I You know, it's almost a little bit like the weather. I'm not entirely sure how it's going to be on any given day.

I mean, you make a prediction. If I do this, then it'll be like that. But not always. Yeah. And try to be happy. I think it's okay to try to be happy. I'm not happy all the time. I think people who are happy all the time are terrifying.

I don't know how that can be a thing. That's like clowns. That's a worry. Yeah. Life is moods. You know what I mean? It's moods. It's different things.

And how do you are you how are you as a dad? You're asking the wrong guy. Well, what do you think? Do you think you do? I try my best. I hope I'm a good dad. Are you a dad? Getting there.

It's complicated. It's complicated. Oh, so you can ask me the deepest. Yeah. I pay for the studio time. So I ask the question. No, that's fair. That's fair.

I'm not sure then. Is $7,000 an hour too much? No, no for me. buddy um so so yeah like how about husband how about did you meet your wife after you got sober yeah are you i go i actually got married and divorced sober oh and i got married again sober great so i've been wronged dog twice most of my lives has been sober so i mean it's a how am i as a husband i i hope i'm a good one uh yeah try to be um i um a father it's really i like I like being a father.

Tell how many? Two, two boys. 25 and? 25 and 15. Correct. Scottish people every 10 years. Like the big orchids in the jungle. You know, they just,

and then everybody gets pregnant. Correct. I mean, if I go off now, then you'll be a father. Great. And a mother. I don't even know what's happening. Neither do. And are you better from the 25 to the 15-year-old,

or is it you just, with kids you just have to like it it's another thing where it's a case it's a horse that you're just riding yeah no it's the they're they're them they're their people i'm not i'm not under any illusion that they belong to me how much guiding can you do do you feel like it's like supervising a because i wonder about that i wonder in terms of child rearing and it's on your mind it really is coming up well no it i it i was thinking about it today um i i i i I just think about what, how much, I've had friends say my kid came out fully formed. Like, it's, that kid is the, the 23-year-old you see today.

Yeah, he was like that from the, or daughter is from the minute I saw them. And, and is it, can you affect it? You know what I mean? I don't know. Because it's a modern. Nature or nurture, I don't know. Yeah, modern parenting really seems to think they can affect it. Modern, a law of modern thought isn't that more.

and isn't that great. But most of it isn't that modern. That's the most of all of it. When you say not modern, what do you mean? It's based on an old idea? Everything's an old idea. Pretty much from... Pop psychology at this level is pretty new, though.

I think it's new in the way that McDonald's and Burger King are new, but food has been around for a long time. Yeah, a different way I getting it and some of that ain't in that good, but you know, still quite tasty in places. What about the idea of hitting kids? That seems to be like that was accepted. That was the thing. Yeah, that was out of fucking line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible. So the idea of not hitting them is clearly. I don't think that's an I don't think that's an old thought. No, that's pretty new. You're right. And yeah, because I think I grew up when that was, it was still okay to hit kids. but yeah but i it's not okay with me i i don't i don't and wouldn't uh hit my kids um actually the older one i actually both of them now they've knocked me in my ass yeah and and and so it's you're almost like a supervisor how did you see it do you see it as like you can really mold these kids do you did you did you have the peter la sally moments with them because it like hey look actually no i don't i don't

listen here i see i don't think that's what parenting is uh for for for me anyway my take on it was a keep you safe and keep you fed and keep you clean and keep you from being scared and moral guidance moral guidance yeah yeah I guess this is what I think you know but other people have different ideas I mean yeah moral guidance of course don't do that you have stop it yeah don't poop on the floor for instance that's that's daddy's thing but the I mean, it's too big a thing. I mean, it's not like, I don't think there's a one thing you can say about it. It's like, so what about music?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's enormous. Yeah. It's, there's so many different aspects on it. It's overwhelming. It's different. It's, I think the one thing I do remember about it, thinking, and I still think this is true.

That when you become, when I became apparent, I don't know if this is the same way for everybody. because I'm not everybody, I'm me. But when I became a parent, I feel like I went from being the star in the movie of my life to a supporting artist in the movie of someone else's life. And there was one day I was standing,

it was quite a long time ago, I was standing outside Gelson's in L.A. And I was with my oldest son, who was about 15 at the time. And this young woman walked by and she looked at him, and I saw them looking at each other. And then there was nothing.

there was nothing in it just two young people looking at each other and then she went away and i realized that she didn't she hadn't seen a guy with his son she had seen a guy with his dad he was the guy and i was the supporting player yeah and did you how'd you feel about it okay all right it's okay i've done a lot of supporting roles i'm yeah you were fifth lead on true care not even Sixth, I'll have, you know. You notice that he knows what number he was. You know, you know the person that far down the call sheet knows that if you're number six in the cold sheet, you know it.

You know your number six. You know it. And this is the 90s. They let you know you were number six in the call sheet. In terms of pay, there was, everything was locked in. You knew what you were going to make the minute you got the pilot. You don't hold out. And did you, okay, so, so yeah, because a lot of people don't like it.

A lot of people don't like being... Some people say I liked that it wasn't about me anymore. And then I've also heard people say, I don't want to have kids because I want it to be about me. It's a choice. Yeah. I'm allowed to not have kids too. I mean, I'm not one of these people who say, oh, you gotta have kids.

You don't have to. It's up to you. Yeah. Sometimes. I mean, it happens the way it happens. And what do you, what's most of your time spent on? And I don't even mean like, What are you doing?

What are you feeling and thinking? It's the broadest possible question I could ask. And I thought as a talk show host, you would appreciate it. Yeah. I never thought myself as a talk show. No, I know. I know. But it was interesting.

And what's funny is the more you go on, the less of Mike. He was not, I didn't realize how funny you were. Because you never made me laugh. No, then I would see shit. And I'd be like, this fucking guy is quick. And but I didn't think you'd be that quick because of that job. You, you, everyone who does it's pretty quick. But you're very quick, I would say.

So, so. Yeah, I am. So anyway, so what do you spend most of your? I'm going to answer this in a rather little bleak way, but I think it does answer it, which is if I couldn't do anything but right, I'd be fine. so I think I have to for some reason for whatever reason whatever impulse I have I need to tell stories when I was drunk I told stories when I was sober I told stories how I stay sober is to tell stories and hear stories you know the the idea of of you know I'm Irish and Scottish I you know my people tell

stories. Yeah, we mix it up, you know, and it's poetry usually and songs and and so I feel like that, that's where I live in most comfort is in some, in either the creation or the absorption of fictional or partly fictional worlds. And the truth is, the odor I get, I think a lot of this shit is fictional anyway. And so the, I kind of, I think that's where I live. I think most of the time. Well, that's the other thing is you have more depth than a talk show host. Generally, I mean, again, not like Colbert and these guys are shallow, but like you, you, you know, maybe it's the algorithm feeding me. But like you're, and again, I don't, also it's just a part, it's a fifth, sixth of your life.

So like, but it's just how for most of, for other people, it's 80% of your episode. I understand. I understand that it makes sense. But I like, I like the deep. That's the part I like. So that's what I'm curious about. I think that the trouble sometimes I think if you do a job that becomes very identifiable. It's that old joke, you know, you fuck one sheep and you're the sheep for. You know, I mean you host one talk show and you're the sheep.

It's like you do a thing and everybody likes that thing or wants that thing and I like that thing and wanted that thing and I'm proud of that thing. And I'm in no way dismissive of it at all. of it at all but there's other things you know and and I really there were times doing the talk show you know we I had this skeleton sidekick you know and careful icarus somebody asked me one night about why do you have the scale it was someone a show business ha ha question about yeah what's with this yeah what's with the skeleton I said I think it's the mocking press presence of death reminding me that this is transient it is my triumph I am Caesar

this is my slave and I could see them like we're right back yeah that they cut to the commercial break that's how bad it was I think but the people that connected with me on that show and still connect on that show because it still runs all over the place on the line and stuff the people that connected with me on that show they know that that show I used to say this over and over again in the show this is not a late night talk show I'm not a late night talk show host and there's very few guests that actually picked up on it but there was one I remember I'll always we don't see I die eye on

everything but it was remarkable it's about halfway through the interview and we're just dicking around comedy comedy and it was Ricky Jervais and he said hang on a minute this isn't a fucking talk show at all is it yeah no it's not congratulations And he got it because he works in improvisation and he works and it's not. It was like come and improvise and let's see what fucking happens. Yeah. That's what that show was. Yep. So was it a talk show? I guess. People talked. Yeah. But was it that? No, because I'm not that.

I'm talking about the I'm interested in the party that wants that the spiritual part of what you're doing. Yeah. Even what you are, what your what your essence is. Yeah. What do you think it is? Because I don't know. Let's talk. Let's you talk about me for a while. Don't be flipping. That's defensive.

Um, I'm, well, I, what's it? When I'm, it feels like something, there's something, I feel like there's something about time with you and about, there is something about death and about connection and fucking around. Yeah. And there is like a little sad. sadness to it definitely and um time's a good one time is you know what time you're right about time here's he's isn't you ever ran any c s lewis i haven't because it because it's like it feels too to christian and too but i'm sure it definitely has he's a christian apologist if you don't like him go

i mean go you can go deeper g k chesterton okay uh who is like kind of his uh origin story if you like for c s louis He's pretty good on this. But CS Lewis does an interesting thing talking about, because I think G.K. Chesterden as well was like this. H.G. Wells was a big atheist, you know, socialist and stuff. You have to say someone with a full first name. Herbert George. Great.

Thank you. Go on. Herbert George Wells was a, I think it's Herbert. It could be Harry Gumbah. I don't know. Harry Gumbah Wells. It's different H.G. Like, hey, how are you going?

Hey, how are you going to. Hey, how you're going to. It's me, H.G. Wells. But H. But H. G. Wells and G. K. Chesson were friends. Yeah. And they used to have arguments about Christianity and, you know,

one's an atheist and one's a big Christian apologist and stuff of that. But one of the arguments I heard, which I loved, was the idea about time is the idea that evolution is somehow, the theory of evolution is somehow negates the idea of there being a God. And I'm like, it doesn't even touch it. I don't know why anybody thinks that. Yeah. The idea that if it takes, you know, 50 million years for something to happen, in the terms of the universe, that's a second.

It's nothing. Yep. And so the idea of we measure time by our lifespans or the lifespans of our civilizations or our families or, and that's like we measure, you know, we count up to 10 because we got 10, you know. it's not really a thing. No, it's the right amount of... It's the right amount of things. Yeah, yeah. And I think that, I think there are so many ways to look at the world

that are interesting and many of them encouraging. Because I spent a lot of time, I think when you're drinking the way I drank, you spend a lot of time in despair for, you're in this trap, you can't get out. The thing that's keeping me alive is also killing me. Yeah, there's something. psychedelic about yeah you're like it living in this anomaly or this

country this some nit liminal space yeah I think that's right I mean the I found weirdly enough I took acid a few times mm-hmm maybe like 15 to sure yeah I'm not entirely sure now I didn't care for it at all I did not enjoy it once and it's kind of interesting because but I didn't take it the right way you know I if there is a right way to take it you know I'd certainly didn't do it by a you know you didn't do with the mattresses no no I did it after 10 pints of Guinness and the Griffin which is a pub in Glasgow which you know it's a completely different experience but the the idea of of it's weird enough that's the way I

feel about life it's weird enough it's like I'm bamboozled by it and and sometimes it's too much like when I was talking to you about Kierkegaard the the the Fear and Lothing book I've very halfway through that book the reason I brought it up because I'm in it right now but I can't take it too much I have to put it down leave it alone from I was like oh shut the fuck up give me a yeah I need Ken Follett or something you know what I mean yeah it's something else man I mean like he's like a bodice riper or something yeah like I can't do all this it gets too big yeah and acid felt like that for me

it's like oh too much that yeah but I think that's what I one of the things I like about you is that you are like openly not even struggling just openly like aware of scope the scope of just like you know that you know that thing when you and i've noticed that a lot with comedy has comedy has this it happened quite a few times when i was doing the old late night show it happens a lot when you're messing around with other comedians that you guys hit something you don't know why it's funny but it's so you're like weeping with laughter over and I mean I don't even think it's just comedians I think everyone yes that but that is magic yeah you know or like when you're on stage and you

hit something yep and I don't know where it's come from and it's a you know and I remember when Stephen King was on the late night show once I was talked to I said have you ever studied the Jungian theory of the collective unconscious And he said, no, I never heard of that. I was like, what? Did you ever, you know the red book? Do you have a copy of the red book that, the thing Young wrote, this masterwork of like drawings and runic writing?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Really? And he said, no, but I remember when I was, he was writing the Shining when he was getting sober. And he said, all these ideas were around in my head. And all these ideas and I was like, and that's when I asked him about the collective, I was conscious.

And he said, no, I never thought of that. No, yeah, he is it. I think so, right? Stephen King, say nothing of his writing. When we were doing, Chappelle's show had not aired. And we were doing a segment called Ask a Black dude, where Dave just went on the street and said, are there any questions you like to ask a black person, right?

Stephen King walks out of a restaurant and we're like, what? And Dave, and he, like, agrees to do it. I guess he'd seen Dave stand up. and his question was black people want to go to black Dennis and to black people want to get buried by black undertakers and the minute

I heard that I was like this guy is so fucking intelligent and curious and like the scope of that question in a split second he maybe he'd thought about it before but that's to me it's like one of the most impressive it like speaks to the voluminousness of his mind. It's amazing. I saw him in a documentary once he was talking about some story. He said

about his neighbors and stuff of that. And he said, my neighbor is a doctor. He thinks I'm a little strange because we were talking one day. And I said, doctor, how much of a person could a single person eat of themselves before they died? He said, what? He said, well, I had an idea for a story that it was a man trapped on a desert island and there was running water but no source of food. and eventually he starts to eat himself. I don't know if he ever wrote the story. I haven't read it. But, you know, he starts with a toe and then a foot and all that,

and he eats himself. I was like, I don't know how you walk around with that in your head. He seems quite a... He's a real regular guy. I've got a couple of friends like that who write dark, dark stuff. Yeah. And they're very upbeat.

There's a Scottish crime writer called Denise Mina. She's a brilliant writer. He's a friend of mine. And she writes terribly, dark crime noir and over show nights a lot of different stuff but crime dark crime novels murders and horrible things and she's the most upbeat lovely cup of tea women you've ever met yeah separate it's just office hours the darkest people i've ever met people that write romantic comedies like rott like hollywood romcums are the dark in dark in what way i don't want to give names

no i got but i'm like people who are like man you are that's uh that's dark in the sense that unhappy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because they're caught up in trying to get romantic comedies made. Yeah, which is, you know, it was a thing in the 90s. Yeah, but everybody had to make them. I like, I think it's more healthy now. People make horror movies. I think it's better. They're cheaper, they're actually more believable than romantic movies in many ways, yeah. What they should do is a horror movie where someone meets a killer clown at the top of

the Empire State Building. I said at first my idea, you paid for the studio. Okay, we'll split it. Oh, you're letting me. Have it? Fuck you. I haven't finished it yet. Wait until you see the treatment. Sight on the scene. I'm signing this baby over again.

I'm telling you. God bless. They meet a crazy killer clown on top of the Empire State Building. Guys, Craig Ferguson is, he is who we thought he was. But they are who we thought they were. And we let him off the hook. He's a charming guy who can get to the, he can go to the depths. He's got a scuba suit.

He can get deep, but he can do, he'll get up and do a funny thing with the water when he comes, when he surfaces. Right? That's about. Yeah, fart jokes and philosophy. Yeah. Craig Ferguson. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a fan of yours. Thank you.

But in the sense of I'm a fan, like, I don't have pictures of you up in my house around with that. I don't well then what then what are you fan is a like I like oh that guy yeah good well I mean that's about all we go for yeah yeah I'm like oh that guy's great yeah yeah yeah like respect but yeah the this is a separate thing do you have pictures of your accomplishments up in your house in that crea thing about that I'm just starting to realize like someone in showbiz did this yeah and then everybody else was like I guess we're supposed to do this it's like no man you don't have even well in my office office no no no I got I had to put we moved house recently and I I got some Emmys and a Peabody Award in the cabinet in the guest bathroom but in the cabinet so that people can't see it yeah unless they open it well now ha ha I thought you were going to get drugs what you got for my Emmys fuck you the alarm goes up yeah um Craig Ferguson thank you buddy