Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Gianmarco Soresi

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

In this episode of Blocks, Neal Brennan sits down with comedian Gianmarco Soresi to discuss the unconventional path that led him to standup. They dive into his childhood experiences with divorce, his short-lived dreams of becoming a professional singer and actor, and the deep-seated desire for "glory" that keeps him on stage. Gianmarco also opens up about his relationship with his parents, his thoughts on depression and Adderall, and how he’s learning to find balance between his workaholic nature and his personal life. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 - Intro 01:03 - Comedic Wardrobe & Authenticity 03:05 - Rebelling Against His Father 04:59 - His Parents' Divorce 06:11 - Understanding the Nature of Cheating 09:03 - The "Fake" Wedding Priest 10:44 - Choosing Transparency Over Chaos 11:59 - Trying Drugs in His 30s 12:51 - The Acid Trip Epiphany 14:00 - Sponsor: Ultra Focus Pouches 15:58 - The Impact of a Restless Childhood 18:27 - Living with a Stepdad "Antagonist" 20:13 - The Prince of the Weekend 23:31 - Disrupting the Family Narrative 26:10 - The Fallout of a Family Legal Battle 29:24 - Losing the Spotlight at Home 31:32 - Sponsor: Square 34:17 - Sponsor: Quince 36:48 - From Theater Kid to Unathletic Adult 38:47 - The Desire to be Witnessed 39:19 - Using Adderall to Feel "Alive" 41:35 - Fighting the "Lead Vest" of Depression 44:31 - Finding Happiness Outside of Achievement 46:21 - On Theater and Heterosexuality 48:11 - The Pursuit of Glory 51:24 - The Brutal Reality for Dancers 54:11 - Bob Fosse and the Addiction to Showbiz 55:56 - Sponsor: Perplexity 59:30 - Sponsor: CookUnity 1:02:46 - The Workaholic Gene 1:04:06 - Developing New Show Concepts 1:05:08 - How Gianmarco Wants to Die 1:06:16 - The Struggle of Obsessive Practice 1:08:40 - When Music Overwhelms the Mind 1:09:32 - The Cost of Broadway and Theater Culture 1:12:09 - Failing into Standup 1:15:50 - Faking Intellect vs. Perspective 1:18:55 - Watching Art Without Self-Loathing 1:21:27 - Final Thoughts ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- Sponsors: Don't sleep on  ⁨@UltraPouches⁩  . New customers get 15% Off with code NEAL at https://www.takeultra.com ! #UltraPouches #ad Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at https://www.square.com/go/neal #squarepod Download the Quince app or go to https://www.quince.com/NEAL for free shipping & 365-day returns.Start your free trial of Perplexity Computer today at https://pplx.ai/blocks and experience the next phase of AI #ad Go to https://www.cookunity.com/NEAL or enter code NEAL before checkout for 50% off your first order.#GianmarcoSoresi #NealBrennan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a social media clip star. This guy's one of the top clip stars. He's got a clip farm. He's a clip farmer. I see one empty chair, Jamargo. Oh, right, that was for Lindsey Graham. Can we say it? You do this?

A moment of prayer. It's American Gothic, but it's him and a clipper and a Southeast Asian clipper next to him. He's got, he had a YouTube special. I don't remember what it was called, but it was good, and I DM him about it. He told me somebody else deemmed him about it. He told me somebody else deemmed him about it.

That was a little embarrassing for him. And he's got a, I guess we're, I don't think we're in now. It's doing a Netflix special that's coming out in, he's filming in September? July. July. Uh-oh, right around the corner. But get your clothes are ready. And it'll air some, maybe December, but they shift dates.

Yeah, yeah. Just between you and May. Maybe not, though. And you're on the road? Yeah, always. John Marco Seraci, everybody. Yes. Hello.

Please clap. How are you? Let's talk about your wardrobe on your specials. I come from a fucked up family. And I know that doesn't make me special in this room. Your wardrobe, you dress like you're at theater rehearsal. Yeah, I like that casual. It's, sometimes I see comedians.

They try to put on that suit at the wrong time. And you go, ooh, this doesn't feel natural to you. Yeah. And I hate dressing up. I do too. Because I was thinking about, like, will all comedies use to wear suits and then somebody took the tie off

and then somebody took the jacket off and like it goes down the line. I don't think Lenny Bruce wore suits. So you're just like, eh, you don't think it makes a difference? I just think it's like, I approach it like, what do I wear? And I have this like desire of like authenticity to myself. And I like wearing shorts.

I like wearing the number of times I've gone to the cellar and I'm gonna wear shorts to that. And then Valerie told me, always bring pants. That's how I know I'm not brave because I always bring a backup plan. That's so funny. And I change in the bathroom stall and it's humiliating. Like they, that's, I didn't even know that. We've talked about it.

Somebody told me a long time ago that in England, if you wear, if you just wear shorts like to a festival, people think less of you. I don't know if that's still true. He told me this in the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I think I wore shorts to a radio head concert. And he saw me and was like, I think he got me tickets and was like, we don't, this is not going to work.

It's one of those things where it's like, okay, culture exists. Do you want to fight it and make no different? Like it's like, yeah, some cultures you wear a kilt. And I think it would be great if we could have those options here and you decide how much do you want to battle? Yes. And you don't. It's not, it's also becomes about who's that,

do you see the guy in the shorts on Netflix? Yes, yes, I know. It's like, I think it's my, my dad was such a slob that I never grew up to respect like just clothes in general. And it all felt oppressive to me. And I'm doing better than him. Even though, based on the, the, the, your material that I've seen, and some of your.

your box that I've previewed here. Yeah. That your relationship with your parents is if not iffy. Well, how would you describe it? Dad, dad is rough. So, okay, because you could have gone like wear a tuxedo all the time because he doesn't respect clothes. Yeah.

I mean, but truly I feel like my version of wearing a shirt is me rebelling against my father. If I was wearing a wife beater on stage, then I'd be like, okay. Okay, I'm my father. So wearing a shirt is my version of wearing a tux. How bad this is an upgrade? Yes. So he's the, he's very Italian? It's kind of fake and it's hard to know like, like his...

Seraci sounds like a fake Italian name. Yeah, yeah, but it's Sicily. It was a pasta. A cousin thrice removed has reached out. So I have confirmed it's real. Yep. But it's hard, like he raised me as if I was, as if we were 100% Italian. Yep.

And my Jewish mom wasn't in the rule. to counter it and he doesn't care about his maternal lineage at all he just cares about like the the his father were they Italian no I think I think I'd never met my my grandfather died before I was born but I think on the maternal side it goes back to like Spain and I'm like oh all the material I could have had about being from Spain it's not too late I know you they were but they got they got divorced Well, I was very young. But, I mean, before I was aware.

Yeah, what's the story? Because I'm, it's, it is a little crazy. It's like somewhere in the first half year of life. They got, they got divorced. Were you their first child or second? First. First and only. Yeah.

So they were married. And my dad was just, I think he's just a cheater by nature. And what happened, the way my mom told me way later, not when I was a kid, was that someone thought they saw my dad at dinner with another woman told my mom. My mom without any, like, real proof, said to my dad, I heard, someone saw you with another woman. And my dad said, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, I'm coming home, let's talk. Like he folded.

She, she bluffed. She bluffed. I saw you. Yeah. And he immediately folded. And famously said to her, like, I'm not gonna change. He said, like, this is who I am. I'm not gonna change.

How long do they know each other before they got married? I don't know exactly. They don't, they don't, they don't reminisce. about the good times much. But I think like, I assume like two years, I think. Okay. Yeah. And he was probably cheating and just didn't get caught.

Yeah, I guess so. He's, he was so, he's just a good looking guy. Women just like flocked to him. Do you understand it? Do you understand cheating? Not like, you're like fighting it all day, every day, but like you go like, yeah, it's easy. It's easy in the short term.

Yeah, I think it's like, it's one of those things I do wonder. Like, would my dad be one of those like trying to talk about open relationships? Like so there's so many, there's so many guys. Of course, I understand the desire. Yeah. Yeah. Desire to sleep around. I don't know if he's also like a liar by nature.

Like he just likes that. He likes the mystery. It's funny because like he had all these girlfriends. I never once overheard him having sex. I never like, I think he's more about the flirting. I think that's what I think. That's what I think. That's what I think.

And his father was a big cheater and like ran away with someone he was sleeping with. So. And you, is it one of these things you can't open it up? You can't, you can't unpack it like we do now. With him? Yeah. Yeah, he apologized more recently, like randomly on the blue, like I'm sorry that I did that. Because I think the part of the part of the.

that was fucked up was his girlfriends or at one point a woman he he married sort of would disappear from my life and he would describe it as oh they just went they went nuts and it's like now it's like so clear what happened is he just got caught yeah and so that's that's the it's hard to feel resentful when you find out about something so much after the fact i i wouldn't know to yell it and yell I don't even yell. I don't know how to feel. Yeah, well, that's an interesting point of view, which is because the first thing is like therapy would have you like blame and mourn and hold accountable. But it's also like, it's a little more complicated than like, I don't know. If you're a cheater, what do you just go like then don't marry. There's like these foundational things that are way too late. Yeah, yeah. Then don't be honest. Yeah. It's 1883. or whatever he heard it is. Like, let's all be honest about what we're like, but that's not what happened.

Yeah, I don't know what would have been a better, I think what sucks about it now is it's just like, yeah, you made your bed and now you don't have that long-time partner. And you see, he needs that. He needs a partner. How old is he now? My ex, I say stepmom because the marriage wasn't real, but they had a ceremony, was there at the... What wasn't real about it?

So my step-grandfather was a priest, dean of students at I think Georgetown University, fell in love with my grandma who was a secretary. And basically, naive priest, he wrote the Pope being like, hey, can we make an exception? He was excommunicated. Look, I'm trying to be, try to be open about it. So he... Look, Pope, I'm fucking this girl. Yeah, yeah.

You can't tell you could... That was probably a Polish Pope, but yeah. I can't imagine what he thought would happen. They sent him to a psych ward at one point because they were like, you're clearly crazy. Because he wasn't fucking boys. They were like, what are you doing? Yeah. A woman?

Uh-huh. An adult woman. And so he, I think what happened is my stepmom got pregnant. They had a quick ceremony. to make it feel maybe for her family, I assume, to make it feel like, oh, it's, it's, don't worry. So your grandfather's out of the church, but he gets married and he's excommunity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, forgive me. So he conducted the ceremony between my father and my stepmother. Yeah. But he was, he's not a priest anymore. So it wasn't, it wasn't a real, and I don't think it was legally signed in anything. It was kind of a show, I think,

for her family or for her, I don't know. Are they, so these, it sounds like a bunch of human beings doing, I guess, coping, like just like, ah, yeah, improvising poorly. Mm-hmm. Do you find that that comes up in your character? Like, where you're like, you find yourself justifying crazy shit or like. I think I'm more like I play it safe. I think I'm just like, I'm, I saw that chaos and I was like, the draw. that these people have created for themselves is is so absurd I've always

want I think I'm overly transparent I don't want to lie because I think my my whole existence was filled with so many people lying and your mom was like had some she was interesting also right yeah she was she was always more transparent about like who she was like my dad pretended he never did drugs he was a fucking hippie yeah in the Woodstock era my mom was she lived in Great Neck and she was going to studio 54 at 14 and she was I mean she was parting it up yeah so she told me about her life and it was rough just this fucked up family alcoholic parents did a lot of drugs and I thought it was

much more beneficial to me like growing up like I didn't do drugs because she told me how scary it was when she did asset as opposed to being like I never did what what did she said she says it was like she got caught in a closet and was stuck in a closet the whole night and just freaked the fuck out. And that was enough for me to be like, never. And then I did later. In my 30s. It explains the clothes.

Well. Yeah. And did you, so you were like, you did some drugs in your 30s? Is that what you say? Yeah, I smoked pot, you know, more later in life. And I like pot. And in the last five years, my, my girlfriend finally got me to do shrooms. And I like shrooms.

Acid is acid. Acid, you don't, you don't have to do acid. I had a, I had a, like, depressive dip suddenly, started crying. And I was like, my girlfriend. In it? Towards the second half. The come down from acid for me is not fun. Not fun.

Yeah. I think acid, it's like any of these drugs, some work for some brains and some don't. It's like it's like the right medication. It was one of her friend's house and they're all friends now, but her husband, he's just like, he builds things with his hands. He built this shed. There's something that I couldn't do with the gun in my head. with a gun in my head and we went to his garden and I had this oh I was like I am nothing I am not a man I cannot build if if the structure of society collapse at all my skills are entirely useless in this new society yeah I'm really do who wants to hear a joke we need to build no roof we're four five years minimum away from yeah and that's what I felt it so on acid intensely on acid and I just started crying I was like I have nothing

Did you change? What? For some people that could be a wake-up call. No, I am. I am what I am. No, I know. Well, that's what it's the, it's like the, like, I'll watch YouTube tutorials. There's no YouTube.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all over. Yeah. Okay. Then I don't, I guess I'll like sexual. I don't like. Yeah. I have no.

I converted into like, well, then I'm going to be the best fucking comedian of all time. Because I can't build a roof. Yeah. Yeah. I think we just have to hope that society remains intact. And it's day to day. You know, I'm always open to a little pepper. You know what I mean?

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Okay, so the impact of divorce. Yeah. My parents were not divorced, but they were unhappily together. So I always wonder when I hear about the impact of divorce, but I don't, I don't think I really, I can't really fathom it. Is there the impact for you, it happened? before you were conscious, right? So.

Yeah, I think the impact is the custody arrangement. I think it was like I went back and forth on this two-week cycle that would just repeat itself. Same school. Same school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They didn't live too far away from each other. And in a way, like the back and forth is almost, when I reflected in it, I'm like, it was neurotic in its concoction.

It was like, okay, well, a couple days here, and then a couple days back, and then a couple days back here and it's like it feels like the priority is the parents making sure they get their time and not does this kid feel a sense of stability at any point in his life so it was like I wouldn't get fully settled at one place I had you know three siblings on my mom's side and then you know I spent some of my life with so your mom remarried my mom remarried a guy who had been my dad's lawyer This is great. It wasn't like, you know, he wasn't still working for my dad. Yeah, I got it was a complete opposite of a person than who my father was.

He was from Ohio, raised Catholic, but no one was excommunicated and was strict as hell. And so I had very different, but also my back and forth life was just so different because of that. My dad was a bachelor. He was trying to make his house. he there was this thought of of my dad's house was so fun like maybe if I wanted I could go to court and testify and say I want to be with my dad all the time that was always like floating in the background and my dad he never like pushed me that hard but it was like you could do this and the thought of I remember thinking like you would testify against your mother essentially yeah it's like that I would testify against I would say I want to be with my dad full-time and that was it wasn't explicit but it was like yeah it was brought up like you could do this if you want and I don't know if you should tell a kid that no because I love my mom but my stepdad was like the antagonist of my of the narrative of my youth so it's the back and

forth part where it's like you for example I would see my dad in the two week one of the weeks I'd see him just Thursday and Friday and so it would be like well I'm not going to go out with my Friends Friday because this is the only time for me to see my dad. And it probably felt there was probably some guilt on your end of like, I should see my dad? Or did you want to see him? I wanted to. And he had no friends so we would hang and it would be fun. Like it was fun to hang with my dad. Yeah. And I think it just gradually, if your whole life doing this, you don't build a social life. And my dad's just a no social life guy, you know, he dates. And so I don't see how friendships work,

how adult friendships work, how community works. So even at school, it never really, it never took hold, like socializing and friendships. Yeah, I mean, I think I had, you know, two or three friends, but like, you know, you just wouldn't go out because every Friday would be accounted for right out the gate. I would want to see my dad. And what would you guys do?

What would you and your dad do? We just veg out. watch Seinfeld and he'd just be there you know he was he was he was fun we'd just eat like shit yeah and and watch honestly Seinfeld was the show that we'd watch you watch three or four yeah oh yeah and it's crazy because this is what years this is all of all of middle school so not what what calendar years oh um let's see I was born to 88 so so that it was the oh four nice yeah yeah 90s out for and we had a lot of fun we had a lot of fun and then when he had when he had another kid that's when I stopped being an only child on that side I was an only child at my dad's house

my mom's house I had three siblings eventually yeah but when I went to my dad's I was the only child I was the prince my dad was there to make it so fun that I might betray my mother to stay forever he said to me once he's like what do you have at your mom's house you do not have my house and let's go get him he was I mean and he also like Eminem I I wasn't allowed to listen to Eminem at my mom's house I could at my dad's my stepdad wouldn't let my siblings watch so you must have been like this I'll wait I'll this I'm gonna consider I'm gonna do this but they'll just wait till Friday yeah yeah like this is nothing yeah was it it when you call the stepdad

antagonistic, was it like hostile? It was definitely was... Hosted, was it more hostile to you than his blood children? In different ways, I mean, they had to deal with like his form of punishment to my sisters would he'd say, present your hand, and then he'd go, now not so hard it would leave a bruise. It was more about shame. Yes. But to my father, who I think the nuns used to hit him with a ruler and his dad beat him

had a brutal the thought of any kind of physical anything was like you might as well be a Italian man you don't have you know yeah I mean you do back in the old country but so like in that sense they got a tougher version but he was I do think there was some resentment because I I come from a different I'm a foreigner I have my own rules yeah I uh I'm I'm I will come from my dad's in my mom would pick him up for my dad's and she'd say whatever pick it from your dad you're you're so different a horrible thing to say to a kid. Yeah. But it's because I would cover my dad's wearing a wife beater and shorts

and like I transformed into a slob. Yeah. And so I think my stepdad was like, there was resentment. Of course. If I had a bad dream at my dad's house, I slept in his bed on and off for a lot of my childhood. You know, whatever. Mom's house, if I had a nightmare, I can't sleep in the bed with my stepfather.

so I would sleep to the side of her bed on the floor. On her side. Yeah. And I remember once walking in and it was one of the two times I saw my mom naked. You know, I just had a nightmare or whatever, and I went in there and it was just like, ah. And I remember the look on my stepfather's face. And it was years later that I was like, I and knowing their life more. I'm like, I bet this was like the one time they were going to fuck that year.

and I destroyed it. And I remember the look on his face and as I get older I'm like, oh, that's a guy who just lost pussy for the night. Yeah. Because of a guy who looks like his former client and his wife's ex-husband. That's very funny. So it sounds like you were just kind of like looking for

like a consistent treatment. Yeah. And like not the in chaos. I have fantasies about when my friends started getting divorced with custody that they come to me and I give them advice. Yeah. And I'm like, without doing the research,

it's like, do alternate weeks or what was unfathomable as a kid, but now I'm like, maybe that's better. It's like, dad for the summers, mom, like, this idea of going back and forth within a week is crazy. It's not good for the kid. That's what most people do, right? It seems like a lot of people do like

he gets them Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday, and I get them. I think that that seems to be what most people do. I think that's... You think it's dead wrong? It's dead wrong. And I think there's better versions and worse versions. Like, the fact that my parents split up a Friday at my dad's, Saturday, Sunday at my mom's, it's like, no, you got to keep the weekend together.

Yeah. You got to keep the weekend together. Well, it sounds like... So I'm sure it happens with everyone, but it sounds like they're competing with each other. Yeah. For time with you. And it's not about, like... connecting with you, or maybe it is a little bit,

but it feels more competitive toward the other person and less about like, how are you doing with this? But it's also like when was the custody arranged? Oh, right when you found out he was cheating on you? Yeah. And your baby, beautiful baby boy who's so a child. Yeah. This is when you're going with two lawyers

and figuring out the system. Of course, it's not well constructed. If anything, I would say to divorce parents, like, check back in every couple couple years. Yeah. And when the kids old enough say, hey, let's let's bring you at the table. Get the lawyers out of here. Did they interact with each other? Like a drop-offs? So they did, my dad would do this crazy thing where he would pick me up and he would be like, can I use the bathroom and like take a shit? And I'm like, this is so, this is so beastial. Fantastic. They did talk. Like in the beginning, they would try to do

this, I think like a monthly dinner. And I remember they would bring. My dad would bring a present. Just to make it feel like Pavlovian, this is good. We're all happy. And then by the third one, they got in a fight. And I remember, I think my dad leaving the table before the appetizer came. And I was like, well, this was a failure. My dad went to Thanksgiving a couple of times way back.

And, you know, then my stepdad would do that to my sister. And my dad would go, what the hell are you doing? And they would clash. Yeah. And there was still some communication until my dad had a custody battle over my half-sister on that side. So when I was 13, 14, I think. He met this woman. She got pregnant.

And then, you know, my dad, I don't know all the deal, my dad did something. Suddenly she was sleeping in the basement. I had just been told for my father. She had a tough childhood. and having a kid triggered it. And I go, oh, okay. Then one day, she's going on. Where do I sign off?

Yeah. Yeah. And in their custody battle, my mom testified on her behalf. And to my father, this was, you're preventing a man from seeing his daughter. You're dead. At the time, I remember... He did nothing to... He had nothing to do with...

He had nothing to do with anything. She... The mother had a tough childhood. He would have been there... 24 hours, seven days ago. And I... When I was a kid, it was like, why... It was painted as my mom did this out of a...

just cruelty, or just hated him so much that he wanted to deny him his daughter. She's told me... And again, I don't, both narratives I question, but she's told me since that they were having their own lawsuits, whether about alimony or custody or something, and that he was going into this trial painting their arrangement and their divorce as completely amicable and easygoing and just lying. Yeah. And somehow that would impact her. So she needed to testify. I don't know if that's true.

I don't know if she needs to testify. I think there was there was some degree of like, it was said at some point like worried about my half sister or like wanting to take care of her. And I'm like, I don't believe that. I don't believe you care. Yeah. And there was always a weird thing where sometimes these exes

would be friends with, suddenly, they're friends with my mom. And you're like, that's so fucked up. They have a lot in common. They have a lot in common. Yeah, they have one thing in common. It's like the opposite of my dad's fan club, just people who hate him.

And that was weird. That was, that was weird. So it just sounds like a lot of what we now call messiness. Yeah, but the question is like knowing my dad, what was he doing to bring this on? Was he not paying Alamone? I mean, you just have friends or divorced. like the debate about...

They're furious about Elman. They've never met a guy that was like, no, it's a fair. Especially if they get remarried to another man. There's a degree where they go, well, you got that. I got to keep given. Yeah.

And the nuances of it are tough. But my dad just kind of got screwed with custody. My question is, how does this construct you? What is it? So then because of this, you are what? I lost being the star of my dad's home. Yeah. And suddenly my little sister is being treated like everything is at the whims of a three-year-old and a four-year-old dinner movies.

And this is my Friday. This is the weekend day. And I don't have any social life. So I don't have another thing to do. And now my dad's whole world, I'm second. You put all your eyes in that basket. You're like, fucking dude, I thought we were doing that. They were at them with Seinfeld.

And I'm experiencing like, I imagine my dad's girlfriends had to deal with me. Like, everything had to be about me, this little kid, because he wanted his house to be amazing for me, because maybe I'll go there full time. Or God forbid the opposite, I go, I want to stay with mom. Yeah. And now I'm like experiencing what it's like when someone else is that. prized person and it it it sucked it's it sucked is that your origin story for the rest of your life it felt like the second chapter of my life like there was there was the chapter where it's

like me and my dad yeah me and my dad and sometimes I have to see my evil stepdad and then at that point it was like fuck this everything sucks and I think it fucked I mean but yeah I'm sure you can go like yeah I get it he's in a new relationship he's a new dad with this other woman he wants She's with a guy and she wants to be a woman in a relationship and like you become an inconvenience. Yeah. And also my dad, when I was a kid, he told me, he said to me every, all the time, he'd say, son, I'm never going to have another kid. And my mom would always go like, I don't know why the fuck he said that to you. And it's like if he said they should have worn a condom every time. And so it was just like a betrayal of like the deep inner narrative that I had was like, I'm my dad's.

guy. Yeah. And we're a team and it's just like it shattered that. And then okay, so then what happened? Then what does that become? So guys, support for today's episode comes from Square. The system powering like half the places I go. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, whoa, that was fast. It was probably square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. And now, Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off square hardware when you sign up at square S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go slash neal. That's square sq-U-A-R-E dot com slash go geo slash any A-L.

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Yeah. Deeply unathletic. Like, just brutal. It is a funny thing that, like, you kind of have to be athletic as a kid. Yeah. It's just an odd thing because it's not... Once you're an adult, it completely goes away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's no premium on being athletic.

It's crazy because now I do it. I mean, on the... Now what? Now I, you know, work out and all these things. Yeah. And as a kid, it was one of those things where it's like, I think I was, I was so out of shape. No sports are going to be fun. It's like, first you got to get me a little bit in shape.

Are you fat? Are you fat? And I'm not puffing and puffing. Chubby. I had big tits. Great. And I was very self-conscious about my tits. Great.

T-shirt in the pool, that type thing. No, but the second I got out of the pool, I put the towel around me here. Yes. And some guy was like, that's women wear the towels like that. And I was like, get the phone. fuck out of here. Fuck you. So many pool parties right at this moment.

Like when you're truly going to your beauty. It's, it's Bo Burnham, at the great sequence in eighth grade where it's like Yes. The entrance to the pool party

and it was like, it's brutal. Yeah. So yeah, I think I always liked performing. Like from, I used to like, my dad would put on disco music

and my mom too. And I would dance in the living room. We'd dance. just fucking around and and I said it like four like we got to get this living room on a stage so people can witness this I don't know what it is yeah what is that because you're not you're not like I'm a child I like when people are just hungry for showbiz for no reason other than they came out hungry for showbiz not like this origin story of like my father and it's it sounds like you just wanted to do it anyway and then all this stuff was like

fuel for the fire, but you already had the fire. I think I have like a desire to be witnessed. Like when I'm on stage, like I'm not a big laffer in general. And then when I'm on stage, I'm, I just feel whatever, I don't feel depressed. I feel like I could laugh. I feel like I could dance. Yeah.

If I'm at a wedding and everyone's dancing, I'm like, I can't do it. If I'm on stage, I'm alive. And so it's just a missing piece or it's just a design. Do you judge yourself for it? No, I've accepted this as like who I am. It was funny because I do Adderall now and then prescribed by a drug dealer. And I told my girlfriend, I said, when I take Adderall, when I'm like high on speed, I'm like, this is kind of how I feel when I'm on stage. Yeah.

I feel really alive. Why don't you take it every day? I'm going, because I want to go to, I want to get it really prescribed by a real doctor. The person I saw was like. I could have gotten anything from this person over my Zoom appointment. I want to go to a real doctor to prescribe me the right dosage. It scares me.

Okay. It scares me. It's so good. It's so good. Well, the only problem is just getting, frying your neurons, I think. Well, yeah, that's my fear. Yeah.

But, you know, the real, whatever, I'm sure. Telehealth isn't the best, but it's not. This one, but I said, hey, is it okay? Like, if I take out of all the day, could I smoke pot that night? And she was in her camera story, she goes, let me Google it. And I was like, okay, okay, I'd like to see a doctor. Yeah.

One of those, if it's like, if it makes you feel better all the time, are you a better person in those, in those, out of all the notes? I think so. Yeah? I think so. Because I, you know, when you're, when I'm depressed, it becomes so narcissistic. You know, the insecurity is narcissistic in that. it's all about like I suck.

Yeah. God, I fucking suck. There's still a spotlight on you. Yes. It's the blue, they put a blue jail on it. Yeah. And the desire is to be like, and now I will no longer suck. Yes.

And if I do this, maybe I won't suck anymore. Yeah. So you, I have a, you're, I didn't, you're prone to depression. Yeah. I think it's one of those things where it's like, I've never been, sometimes I go, oh, well, if I haven't been suicidal, you almost negate the level of. depression but yes I'm yeah but I and somebody who's never really been suicidal it's like a you know it's like a if you feel like you have a you know

lead vest on yourself all the time yeah yeah I could be I can be depressed yeah like that's a fair I but then you wonder how I'm sure you ask yourself this question I'm wondering what your answer is how happy should a person be and how much of it is just you never look at your parents and go like well okay so it's apparently the stats are like it's 55 to 60 percent genetic is your like ceiling of what like what they're kind of like is and then you can kind of manipulate the rest but yeah i'm not someone who's like oh you got to be happy all the time it's just like can you are you occasionally happy can you have moments can you find happiness with your partner with your friends my dad is someone

who were like the depression just took over the and and just wouldn't fight it, wouldn't change his behaviors in any way, shape, or form to come out of it. And you're like, I just think you have to, like, fight your depression at least a little. It's got to be a battle. Yeah. It's got to be a battle. And sometimes you need to win. How do you win? Just a moment where you feel... What are they? What leads up to the wins? Is it, is it achievement? Is it, is it, uh, connection? Is it achievement and work feel almost like a different thing. And I'm like, that's important too. But like, for me, the kind of happiness that was so tough to defined is like, you know, me and my girlfriend are just talking or chilling and we're, I feel

fun. Or like my, my few closer friends, like, we're just hanging out. And I'm not thinking about how much I suck or work or anything. I'm just like, I'm just laughing with these guys right now. And I'm not thinking about we're going to die. Who's going to die first? Yeah, it's you. It's me for sure, the anxiety. My God. And, and, you know, sometimes weed helps that. I think that's why I wish I got high earlier because it was like sometimes it helps stoke the flames. Yeah. So nice Adderall does and then and then sometimes you get it on your own once in a while. If you had to say once in the natural version, the raw dog version, how often do you think that is? More, I have more little pockets with like, with with my girlfriend. I think it took a long time to separate achievement.

Like I had to be working. I had to be working. And that's all I was thinking about. And I think through a lot of trial and error and arguments, there are spaces with the two of us where I'm like, okay, I feel happy just the two of us here in this room and I'm not thinking about some bigger picture thing. And it flows. It comes in and out. Did achievement silence the lambs, so to speak, a little bit? Sometimes people will say, like, what do you want to achieve in your life? And, you know, I could list things, but I'm like, honestly, the happiest is when I'm just

on stage doing stand-up and I'm like, and I have that. Now I have to figure out how to be happy because things will come. they'll go. But like if you ask me like, what do I want to be doing any given moment? I'm like, yeah, it's on stage and I do that. Yeah. The room could get bigger. Sure. I don't know if it would even be more fun and bigger. Like I am, I am on this is, I have that part of my life. Now I have to feel, now I have to address some of the other things. When you say address it, what do you, so you've got Adderall, got weed, you've got connections sometimes. How are you, how are you addressing it? My girlfriend grew up religious, but like, okay, we'll do Shabbat dinner.

And Friday night will be this Friday. It's just having people over. And it's, it's prepping a space and having company. And it all feels foreign. It all feels like a chore to me because I didn't grow up valuing it. And then somewhere along the Shabbat dinner, you're sitting there. You're going like, oh, this is nice. Yeah, like I get, yeah, I get it.

I get why people like this. That's good. And it's not, you don't, and it's, it's not followed by like, But man, I could be on stage. It's chilled. That voice is chilled. And performing so much that sometimes you're like, yeah, I feel. I don't want to perform this minute.

I've been seeing more Broadway shows recently. I think for a long time I would just go and I'd feel like torture. Like the same thing you'd go to, like, I've never really like strip clubs or not a thing because I go like, this is torture. I'm going to go watch someone and they will not. Yeah. Will and fuck me. Yeah. And I can't have sex with.

And then leave. And that's what like going to Broadway felt like. It's like I'd be like I want to be up there. Yeah. Why do I want to see other people doing this? Yeah. And I think through time, getting older, and just so much fucking stage time that now I go and I'm like, I don't need to be on stage. Yeah.

Give me three days off stage and I start itching. Yeah. I know how to like satiate that itch now and trust that it's going to, that I'll be able to satiate it later. Do you, okay. So how about heterosexuality? sexuality. You've been, you've been, you've been firm, because you seem, you're very theatrical. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have a touch of the gays, we'll call it. Sure. More than a touch. Yeah, do you, how was that, did you, was that ever a thing? No, I mean, I think the opportunity was,

was there if I wanted to lean into it in any point. Yeah, but I'm just saying like, you were heterose, you're just like, you always like women and you're like, all right. Yeah. Yeah. And did you ever try to like be more mask and say no I think I my mom told me when I was a kid I came home one day and was like mom I realize I'm different from other people and I'm okay with that and in a way it's it's some version of like there's some things I vibe with guys like I could talk about dragon ball z in a way that I think with some straight guys would be like oh yeah he's a dude yeah and then I never gravitate to sports I never like Star Wars I like dancing there's pictures of me as a little kid you know, putting on my mom's heels.

I like to go to ballet class. Yeah. And, you know, these things get conflated with homosexuality. Yeah. In a way that, like, I had a gay friend where I kind of was talking to me. I was like, why did theater? Why is theater such a haven for gay people? And part of it, he said, was like, well, because in high school, you can't express yourself in a lot of places.

and in theater you get to express something. You're feeling different. Yeah, it opens the, it opens up the band. Yeah, and that's what I have. And I do think, like, certainly in a heteronormative world, it becomes so closely associated with being gay or queer. Wanting to be, wanted to express more emotions is considered gay. Yeah, exactly.

And then singing them. That takes it to the next level. Of course. And dancing. I mean, forget it. Is there, so it's like when you're performing, even that thing of like, I want to be witnessed. Do you want to be sexually desired by women? Or is it more like glory?

Do you know what I mean? Like, I want women to. Oh. Like, I'm aware that when I'm on stage, I would like women to think I'm attractive. Is that. a consideration for you? It is, but glory is definitely the super, the super one. It's like, when I like listen to music and a lot of times women belting, I'm visualizing a kind of me performing and witnessing it in some like godlike way. And I'm belting the songs and, and I remember in high

school when I had like an ex, you know, it was like, I'm singing my chemical romance and she's watching me and everyone's watching me. It's like that's the constructing narratives and the glory, not necessarily and then everyone's going to fuck me. Yeah. But the narrative of like, I am I am expressing so intensely and everyone's watching. That's

the fantasy. Like it's a human triumph. Yeah. Black Swan is not a good movie. Thank you. Maybe cliche. Thank you for saying it. It's guys Black Swan is a lifetime movie about

ballet, about ballet, with some interesting imagery in the second to third act. What are Oscar-winning movies, but Lifetime movies with amazing acting? Go ahead. Same for Gone Girl. It's a Lifetime movie, and I told Jeff Cronoworth, who's the DP, that that's what I thought of it. He's a buddy of mine and we do commercials together.

Go ahead. When she dies performing the greatest thing ever, I watch that and I go, yeah, yeah, I fucking get it. I get it. Amazing. I know people. Like, I'm not like you. I'm just not like, like Jerry Seville said on this podcast,

like, do you go negative on yourself? Oh, sure. What's the tone? Well, why are you even doing this? You ever hear this on stage while you're performing? Why are you doing this? You shouldn't even be on stage. You should just be a writer.

You're obviously just a writer who is performing these things. He thinks he's a writer. I think I'm on stage. There are points where I feel like I'm, so I'm envious of, the, the, uh, you move on stage like you are dying to be witnessed. You want cute jokes? Go see a Christian comedian. Jews have a dark sense of humor because when you're hiding in a closet from the Nazis,

you can't be like, knock knock. Yeah. Well, I'm dancing. Like I think I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I can't dance, unfortunately. But I do. And I added enough shit to convince people to watch me dance. I had to work so hard on these jokes just to get. get them to watch me prance around. It's a long way to go for Alvin Ailey. I'm Alvin Ailey. I'm a choreographer.

I create movement. I'm searching for truth. Yeah. I just cut off the middleman. Yeah. Take it. And you've taken the classes and it just didn't happen for you. Oh, I was so uncoordinated. My sister, one of my sisters is a real dancer. She just did Sabrina Carpenter at Coachella.

She was one of the dancers. Oh, great. So she's like, she's doing it. And we would take... Big money in backup dancing. Dancing, these dancers... To make $175 bucks? It's also one of these things.

Feed yourself, by the way. She's like, do not speak about any of my business because there's no power to be wielded. But it's bad. Dancers are so mistreated. There's no union. It really is. The things that she has had to put up with. And the no money.

There's no big. payday. There's no big payday. The top, the most you know for is you're a hot choreographer for a year and a half. Yeah. And that's, you're not going to really make any money on that either. And by the way, every dancer's retirement plan is to become a choreographer. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, you can't, you're not all going to be able to do it. Three of you are. Yeah. And the three that are going to do it are not good people. Yeah. I've never met them. And I'm like, oh, I know, I can see from the outside. I've walked past the place on Melrose and been like, oh, yeah, these people are, I feel bad for them because they're clearly there for the love of it. But I look at them and I go, what a cool,

what a cool life. You go on stage. I try to express myself with my voice. You get to express yourself by fucking moving your whole body. And you're all, I mean, dear God, these dancers, I'm sure it's just orgies on the road. They're just fucking, they're all beautiful. They're all expressing every night. They're all just living these thrilling lives. And then, you know, they're crippled at 32 and it's over. Yeah, they tear something and then it's... But what a life.

I mean, they fly close to the sunboy. I mean, they're gonna get singed. But for that... If I look back when I think back, I'm like, ooh, maybe if I had started dancing when I was four, I could have been, because it seems so fucking cool. To be a... It's funny. That's another thing where

I see it and I just go like I think it's cool I but then I'm so like capitalist or whatever then I'm just like you got to make a living uh-huh like what are you gonna like when girls girls like dancers and I'm like so what's gonna happen when he can't pay the more sure like baby dance for them go to the go down to the bank and do one of the do the do the thing from the Timberlake tour Uh-huh. It's not going to cut it. I read Fosse's book.

It was a book about Fossian. He really, it's a good. That's a good movie. I mean, it's. Which one? The, uh, the, the, uh, all that jazz? Yeah. Yeah.

That's, I mean, it's like very nonlinear. But if you're talking about, you want to see cool, abstract dance sequences. Yeah. And like mental. That's, I'll submit. All of Fossi's movies are. I mean, Lenny's a great movie. I only saw it once.

It's worth seeing again. And then. And then cabaret is brilliant. I've never seen any version of camera, but I believe I'd like. It's really good. Okay. But I think it was surprising. It was like how long he tried to still maybe be a leading man.

He really, like, even as his choreography career, everything was taken off. There was still every once in a while he'd go be a lead in a musical, like, and he didn't have the talent. He didn't have the talent to be a leading man. He was like a good singer, but not a, or a good dancer, not a very good singer. Yeah, just didn't have the charisma. go and watch them at the like the Lincoln Center like you go back and watch oh i did it once i mean it's it's not fun you know i saw it was the production of the seagull and it was like philps

sumer hoffman natalie portman when she was 18 maril streep john goodman christopher walk in a crazy production yeah so it's fine you know it's it's a it's a pro shot it's the fossey michael jackson split screen is like insane that's you can't believe it yeah you were literally like what you are Yeah, if you don't want to talk about, we'll put it up here. They met in the book, in the book they mentioned how they met and Fosse was weirded out by Michael. Yeah, he was like, I don't know if I want to work with this guy. Did they, he wanted to work with him? Yeah, Michael reached out.

Like, I'm sure, like a pop star like, come swing by. Let's talk. Yeah. It's crazy. Yep. A lot of people on those stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys, we all use AI for search.

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which I'm surprised It was surprising Anyway but it took like 20 minutes for it to do it and it came back And it put it in sheets I also just did another one I don't know if it was computer but I did I'm having some hip problems

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you're kind of like you're, it sounds like you're figuring it out. Yeah, I mean, my dad's like, my dad's moments like that, I'm like, oh yeah, you're just copying him. He was, he's a constant owns 20,000 trademarks of different companies, works nonstop. Is he, wealthy?

He was, he was, he must be bad with money, but he retired like when he was 45. Again, another part why hanging out with him was so fun. Put it all in the, the stock market. We had a Ferrari for like a while and then the dot-com bubble bursting, I think, was devastating. Yeah. And suddenly a metaphor of anything, it was like the Ferrari just slowly going to rust in the garage, never to be driven again. And he just opened up a different kind of company. He used to do oils, cleanups in the ocean, made so much money. Then they got better about

not spilling oil, unfortunately. Right. And now he does scrap metal recycling, but I think he's always trying new ventures and wants to open like a purse line and wants to open like re-rebring back Sarasi pasta for whatever reason and invest in weed companies. And do you find yourself drifting in that direction? Or I have my different shows. I have my theater adult show and I want to do this. So I think that. Oh, you do, you have like different, what do you have different versions of shows.

like a new show concept separate from stand-up that's more like theater-based so I can do something with those super niche theater jokes got it um but we're we're a podcast it's like yeah i think i i have that entrepreneurial spirit and you just try not to let it grow out a hand for you yeah because it's like ADD is it like a little bit is it like i want this do you lose interest and gain interest or do you keep interest and book your life so tight i think it's a easy to just like become distracted by the the busy to do things because those are easy and and you just have to make sure you're making time to like invest and make the thing good in and of itself so i have that for my dad being a workaholic he told me he's like he's like i'm never i never

want to be in a retirement home i he's going to die at work he's not how do you how would you want to die at work you want to witness do you want everybody i've had that thought about like you're going to stream it right you're going to stream your death of course of Of course. Something with a big joke. I die. The problems you die on stage, it's usually like it's a heart attack and that sucks. But I like the idea if you sit gradually, applause.

I think I would want my girlfriend to come out and give me a hug too. I don't want to just be alone on stage and die. It's like Fossi, it's like all that jazz. He was in the hospital bed, but he had an audience too. Everyone was applauding. His ex-wife was there. His current lover was there. daughter like that's it he's a psychotic drug addict yeah he was nuts and you read that book and you

go like you go man i think to be as great as i fantasize you can get that at all self-destructive yeah i have to be okay with i have to be okay with taking adderol every day yeah he traveled with a pill case yeah he was ready to die for his addiction to showbiz you might be too square i agree to really be great. All right, we've got singing struggles, which... What does that mean? I think it was like in the beginning, like, singing was like, oh, that's the key to glory.

Like, that's what I'm going to do. And I practiced... I wasted a lot of colleges practicing singing in an awful heat-heated vocal booth alone, just doing scales for two hours a day, not going out. What are scales? Exactly. Just like you play a chord, you go, da, da, da, da, da da da da da da da do do.

Da da da da da da da da. And trying to like do the right technique, get a higher note. And I do you, okay, that thing that, duh, that type of note, I don't like it. Uh-huh. Does that mean I don't like theater? Because that sounds like, like Dr. Doolittle singing or like a music man or like. Like, so like, I can't do it. But what is that?

It's just a different style. Like, one might say is that a healthier approach to singing or it's just has more resonance. Yeah. And there's musical theater genres of everything now. I mean, older school musical theater, it, you know, evolved out of the, like, opera tradition. And so it had that, da-ha-ha-ha-ha. But, you know, there's Jesus Christ superstars. It's like, da-da-da-da-da.

And, you know, you play with a. I like this, I like Jesus Christ Superstar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, something about that, that doesn't sound like any life I've ever lived. Yeah. Whereas the, and is, I guess it's just, is it my taste? Is it cult? I think it's what you, what you grow up with.

I think, like, I bet if at the right age you had listened to classical musical theater, it would have imprinted on your brain in a different way. I think so much about music enjoyment, like, is tied to nostalgia. in such a deep way. Sondheim doesn't, I don't, I'm not that familiar with it, but like I've watched the Sondheim documentary. Yeah, I mean, he was genius. The company one.

Yeah. But no one really sings like that. The main guy, Bobby. I guess he does a little bit. But like Elaine Stritch is on there to be like, here's to the ladies who lunch. Yeah. I really witnessed because my girlfriend, she grew up, uh, Habad, which is like a subsect of Hasidism.

Uh-huh. And had no real music in her life. like klezmer music like very traditional Jewish so you can groom her however you want no but she doesn't even like it she doesn't like music like she'll listen and she likes here and they're like when people don't like a thing that everyone like you i don't like it even me not is like we first time we did shrooms at the end we were like we didn't listen to any music we operate differently music overwhelms her mind it's so much noise and her Spotify rap says you didn't listen to enough music to say anything about you.

And to me, it's such a clear indicator of it's like, yeah, you weren't raised with music playing. It doesn't, it doesn't connect to some deeper nostalgia thing. Yeah. And it's that same way where sometimes I'm like, I shouldn't have listened to so much musical theater because now there's so few people who can relate with the thing that I love. By the way, I went and saw Becky Shaw. Yeah.

And it was $220. Yeah, I saw it last night. Who would pay this? Some of those lines are so good. No, no, no, no. I'm not here to, to, to, uh, I'm so glad you saw it though. It's so funny. No, I, it's, it, yes, I have a longer, we can, I'll have a longer, I don't want to

get bogged down with it. But my point is, who can afford this? I've been seeing more plays recently and you go, oh, everyone here is so old. So, well, that was, okay, so I, at Becky Shaw, they're holding signs. like everywhere turn your phone off and then you realize during the play the these people are too old to understand how to turn their phone off uh-huh how like five phones went off yeah each act uh-huh it's like what are you talking to these people can barely understand their phone yeah because they're all at least 70 yeah and wealthy so it's gonna affect you you've done them you know what's going to have but it's just going to all it i'm sure it was already only appealing to a certain type of person now it's

like well broadways i mean broadways it's it's a mess i mean it's not in a good it's not in a healthy place but like the whole idea is like yeah you should have i see becky shaw and i go oh i could bring my little brother here who doesn't love theater and he'll like this yeah he'll go oh fuck oh i didn't know theater could be edgy you know i mean everyone talks about comedy being edgy so much and I'm like, you see some plays. You want to go see the goat by Edward Albey. You'll see as a guy, he's fucking a goat. And that's the story.

Yeah. And it's depressing where you go like, oh, what happened that like younger people aren't being brought into this art form? Because it's cost prohibitive. Yeah. And it was very expensive. You just like, what? Guys, it's good, but like, relax.

At least that's like a musical. You're like, well, at least they sang and there was a band. And I can. was worth this ticket price. If they're just talking, you're like, okay, 50 bucks. I have the time they're carrying their own shit off stage. Yeah, yeah. I thought some of this money would go to a crow.

All right, and what are we singing? I can't. What's the OCD? So I think it was like when I was obsessively practicing singing and not fluff your hair. You're not going to like your hair. Thank you. I appreciate that.

People don't do that enough. It's worse, but whatever. People practice, people practice, oh, I thought I'd get better. And I was just like, wasn't in therapy. And I was just like obsessively, oh, this note didn't work. I try it again. I try it again. I try it again.

I try it again. Oh, my voice a little tense. I go, hmm. I would do this 300 times a day. Hmm. Hmm. And it was me like checking my voice. Is it still there?

Is it still free? And what is this for? Meaning what did you? It speaks to the dance dream. Yeah. Where was this headed? It was so that you'd be glorified. In Express.

And it's like you, it's not, it's, I think like the dance scene, you know, if you look at like a reality TV star, it's like I want to be, I want that to be earned. It's got to be both. And there's a thing with singing where it's like, I want to like. rip open my chest, you wail out a high note, do a full narrative, and earn the glory. Yes. I was so, I was trying so hard to do it. And my, I had limitation, I just didn't have the talent.

Right, okay. That's what I want to talk about because I find it really interesting, is going like, well, I think I'd like to be this, but I'm actually this. Uh-huh. How did that feel? What was it like? It was gradual. It didn't like I graduated and there were no, you know, no one was going, please star in this musical.

And so then I joined an acting company and suddenly acting became, oh, I can do this. And I wanted to be Daniel DeLewis. And I was working so fucking hard. And then I moved to New York from this acting company and it's like, I mean, it's an awful profession, just acting. Yeah. And not a profession. It's a hobby. Yeah.

That some people make a living from. And I, you know, I had, I came from enough money that, like, I was being able to pay for casting director workshops and getting a line here, some commercials. And then I wrote a play, and I talked to the audience in the play. And suddenly it was like, oh, maybe I'm good at this. I was getting a lot of good feedback about that. And then I got in a comedy club.

And so it went from, like, singing, okay, I won't be a great. singer but I think I'm going to be a great actor and then nothing going on and then stand up it it clicked it fit my abilities I feel like I failed into it for sure does it feel like that still or does the positive feedback overwhelmed that I had out or all that time I there's times where you go I just talk on stage I can't say, I can't dance. Hopefully I can act enough to be in some things, but there's moments I go what,

there's moments I don't value it, and there's moments I think this is the true marrying of intellectual and art together. And I vacillate between these two things. Well, because you're a, you have a good brain, so I'm wondering like why, I guess you've just wanted glory so much more than you wanted, like, any sort of intellectual or respect for intelligence?

Because like singing, no one's going like, this singer's really smart. Like you don't value being told you're smart. I think it's because I'm like, I know the ways that I'm so fucking stupid that it's- Ignore that. I can't. I think like I'll do like my girlfriend is,

we're smart in very different ways. But like if we do a crossword together at the same time, the way that I couldn't even keep up with her. I go, I'm an idiot. Yeah. I, I, my memory is fucking awful. My retention is awful. I think I can like grapple with concepts.

Yeah, but I've seen you say stuff that's like requires having. I guess. Retention. There's moments I feel, I feel like, oh, you're faken. You're fake and your intellect. Yeah, but I you're, you're, when I look at you, I go like, you're just knowing you're seeing you,

your ability to retain things, be specific about things, be articulate. I'm ADD. I go all over the place. I lose track. If I try to write prose, if anyone who's gotten an email from me goes, oh, my God. Two different people at the top and the bottom. I'm an oral communicator. Got it.

The run on sentences are out of control. The parentheticals that I'm using are insane. If they entered me into chat TV, it would get worse. So you were like, okay. So you were like, I'm not. So when you go on stage, you're not expressing ideas necessarily, you're expressing. I'm expressing ideas, too. I think, I think ultimately, if I had succeeded as an actor or a singer, I would have eventually

butted up with, like, that desire to be like, hey, this is all bullshit, right? Well, that's what, it's like, I want to write something. Or, like, it is just greener grass where you're like, you know, I'm, which is almost without fail, the worst. Uh-huh. when the singer wants to write. Yes. I mean, whatever, there are some good songwriters.

They were singers, but, but. It was worse than when the writer wants to sing. I mean, hold your applause. Yeah, but when the writer wants to sing, it's a, it's a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm interested in the idea that if you walk around going like, oh, of course, I should have been doing this, or you walk around going like, hmm, I should be singing, don't you see?

I still like wish, like, now I'm like dabbling into like singing again. And I'm, you know, auditioning as you do. And I have to pretend that I don't think I'm a bad actor because I want to book some work. It depends on the day, man. Sometimes I'm like, I'm a comedian and I feel happy about that. I'm like, I did like, you know, I listened to Carlin growing up. I did love Seinfeld cartoon. Yeah.

And I'm like, this is cool. And then there's other times I see a great performance and I go, man, I will never know what it is to fully experience. and somebody else is right. I know, I know. You're expressing someone else's ideas. That's the thing. It's like... You're embodying them.

You're a vessel. Yeah, but it's still a lot. You're not... You're embodying them, but that's not... You're in... on stage you can embody your ideas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well then how cool to see people who do all of it. Yeah. You know, if I see like a Bo Burnham...

Like, I remember, like seeing inside was like a... oh I should kill myself like this is well why should I make anything this is so a full embodiment of these these thoughts and these feelings and so well communicated and musical and singing and it was really tough it's like I think I've gotten better at watching art without immediately feeling self-loathing but it's a battle it's a fucking battle to enjoy Well, aspire to it then. Sure. Sure. There's certain limitations. I'm never... Why don't you write a funny song?

Honestly. Yeah, maybe. Sometimes you go, sometimes you go, well, that's not my... If you're not a songwriter, yeah, yeah. Or it's also like, I know I'm not a visual person. I don't know if I could be a director in some capacity someday, but I'm not, I don't think like that. I just have to embrace the things that I'm naturally inclined to do.

And stand-up is that. Yeah. You are, you're very good at comics. So, like, I would say, relax. I mean, easy for me to say, and maybe the tension is what's helping you be good, but you can enjoy it. I feel I'm way happier navigating it than I used to be. And I think some of that success and some of that's like having a partner who insists on

some regular semblance of life and community and, like, gradually, like okay this is important and it doesn't it's not going to hurt the the other thing is that neuroticism of like well if i'm i could have been great had i practiced on friday instead of a shabbat dinner and it's kind of like no sometimes you take breaks it makes you yeah at a certain point there's no or just the or in your head going like no shabat dinner's actually going to make my comedy better this is the better use of my time to or my ability there are two separate things and it will be neutral it will have a neutral effect How about this?

How about two different things and one, not in competition with the other? Don't you ever when you're going through like a really awful thing, though, sometimes going like, is this, someday I'll talk about it. I'll get a bit out of it. Yeah, yeah. And that's a comfort. To me, that's a comfort. Yeah, that's a comfort.

But the, but Shabbat dinner is not a thing that you're going through. You wait for the Shabbat special. It's going to be great. Guys, John Marcus Sarasi, he's, he's a. He's got to go fund me for clothes for his wardrobe. And, uh, and he's got, his, he's got, he's got, he's got the full podcast, the fucking YouTube's, he's got clips. He's got, uh, he's got everything.

Yeah. He's practicing scales. Oh, you need him. Please consume him. Give him his glory.