Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Jason Biggs

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Jason Biggs (American Pie, Loser, Saving Silverman and much more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. 00:00 Intro 2:00 Is acting safe for kids? 8:00 Early acting career 11:20 American Pie: The Pie Scene 18:50 How his life changed post-American Pie 29:30 Partying 31:26 Sponsor: BetterHelp 33:32 Sponsor: Huel 36:10 Transition from ensemble star to leading man 41:20 Being typecast 46:45 OCD, Zoloft & Mental Health 51:52 Drinking and drugs 57:10 Twitter 58:40 Addiction 1:03:47 Sponsor: Rag and Bone 1:06:13 Sponsor: Modern Mammals 1:07:32 Getting sober 1:21:00 How he’s changed ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail]) Sponsors: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Visit https://www.rag-bone.com and use promo code NEAL for 20% off. Visit https://www.huel.com and use promo code NEAL for 15% off for new customers. Visit https://www.modernmammals.com Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is an illustrious actor. I like when they call actors inimitable. Wow. Incomparable. Woody Allen movies. I can't believe I'm in love with the smoker. Amy Hackerling. Exco.

She lost some weight, so she's dating a lot more now. Fucking White's brothers. It's not what it looks like. This guy's been working, stays working. Interesting guy. Jason Biggs is here, guys. Hold for applause. Hold for applause.

Hold, please. So wait, you said you like when they, don't know who they are, but call actors, those things. Are you calling me that? No, I'm, well, I, I just want to clarify. Who does the they is the Broadway community. Right. It's always the incomparable Patty Lupone. Please welcome the incomparable Patty LaBelle.

It's the only time anyone use the word incomparable. Yeah, for sure. Is in intros for Broadway actors. The inimitable. Bernadette Peters. Exactly. The incomparable Bernadette Peters. And there's about nine women that they say it about.

Exactly. And we've just named two of them. Liza Minnelli, whatever. That's automatic. The one, the only, Liza Minnelli. All right. Here's the thing. Thinking about Jason Biggs is a guest, guys.

You and I bonded 15 years ago on Twitter because I said that my showbiz record was like two and five. And like that's a one. winning record in show business and you were like fucking and then you you said you're right I think what I'm interested about you one of the things I'm interested is how what you thought you were getting yourself into and then what is this turned out to be well it was interesting because having been a child actor is it dangerous for children to be actor that's what I'm always curious about it is like is it a most obviously like molestation that's a big one that's a number one answer number two answer is is it emotionally safe for children to be putting to be

applying for jobs to a day for a day if you need a yes or no I mean the short answer yeah yes it is safe yes no sorry dangerous okay but but here's what I will say like it really really depends on more than anything else, uh, the parents. Okay. And while my parents have their shit and I have my shit with my parents. Sure. We all do. You know, they weren't your traditional, I mean, my dad was sort of, you know, he did get involved. He played show for quite a bit sometimes, but, um, but, but it was my mom. She was not a stage mom by the, by the sort of, you know, that sort of horrible, cliche definition of the, of the term. So was it like, I feel like she maybe did, and still does to an extent

live vicariously a little bit through my fame you know and sort of she appreciates it you know but maybe there is a sense of you know I'm a parent now so I you know it's a I'm proud of my kids so it's maybe it's just pride maybe it's whatever it is but there was never a sense of I had to do this for her

you know even if you're doing it for you though isn't is it a thing a kid should be doing exposed to no I think the best way to answer this question is I'm so glad I did it I would never allow my kids to do it so I think that sort of sums everything up

but the places I go to for the reasons why my kids shouldn't do it are things like you know I missed out on a lot of sort of normal childhood things kid stuff you know I you know things that I wish I had

you know took part in um i was behind always behind socially had a lot of catching up to do in what ways i just really you know didn't have a whole lot of friends and the friends that i had i was you know i would come in to work in new year i was in jersey you know so i would that's where i grew up very close by but you know so close yet so far away that kind of thing you know and that was really really hard it was really hard but again you know i was performing on broadway i was having this incredible experience. It's just most of my friends were adults in New York and fellow actors who were... Kevin Spacey.

Actually, it's funny. So Kevin Spacey was doing Lost in Yonkers, which I had also auditioned for. I was doing sort of the other Jewish playwright comedy drama play about the Jewish experience in, you know... There were only two Jewish playwrights at that point. Broadway. That's funny. But there were two, there was Neil Simon and there was Herb Gardner who both had shows on Broadway that you're Lost in Yonkers and then mine was conversations with my father. I auditioned for both of them. Kevin Spacey was doing Lost in Yonkers.

Anyway, that's my... Dodge the bullet. Or something. Something. A dodge something. It's something that shoots very fast out of a chamber. Et cetera, et cetera. Do your, you write that joke yourself, guys. Anyway, I digress. I, um, yeah. So there were things that I certainly missed out on. And, you know, and also I think I was, though, in some ways, living in Jersey was also a good thing for me because I wasn't, you know, I had friends that were going to professional children school in the city. And then, you know, we're friends that lived in Los Angeles as child actors. Your exposure to things is way different, you know, and assuming your parents, again, the level of sort of freedom that the parents give.

so many of these kid actors become the sort of, and I, listen, I also had a weird sort of relationship with my parents, a sort of reverse, you know, where I sort of parented them in a lot of ways, where I sort of was looked at as these sort of, you know, guiding, guiding, guise. Was that who you were or you kind of became that? It's a great question. A little bit who I was because of deficiencies, I think, with maybe my parents and sort of their family of origin stuff. And, you know, they had kids really, really young and you know but i also think it's who i became um you know chicken or the egg but but i definitely was sort of put into a role a little bit that was um you know perhaps not a normal

kid role and certainly in a family or or certainly not in like school and sort of everyday stuff but but again like a lot of these kid actors that i would meet they were like it was amazing how they would like treat their parents like they were the boss you know because the parents put so much into this kid relied on this kid maybe financially oftentimes financially but certainly emotionally you know living truly vicariously through their kids unfulfilled dreams unfulfilled sort of things of their own that now this kid is doing commercials or performing on broadway and it lights up their life too and becomes but then they're deferential to the kid the kid becomes this sort of arrogant little pricks i met so many little pricks and my god but my parents

were not like that, you know, and they sort of kept me, you know, again, growing up in New Jersey, I would go home and I wasn't like going to, you know, you hear about these kids going to parties that they shouldn't be at or go or being allowed to go off with managers who were, you know, these weird other adult figures in their life. And that's where you hear the stories of molestation or sexual abuse, you know, because the parent was like, okay, this is a, this is a manager, You're an important person who wants to hang with my kid. Maybe you'll get the next job because he goes to this thing with so-and-so. My parents, I was not doing that shit.

So my exposure to it was different than a lot of other kids. So warped that that happens ever and it happens all the time. All the time, all the time. So again, my experience, as all of them are, very unique, very different. Mixed bag is what it sounds like. A total, total mixed bag for me. I learned so much as a kid. I also, you know, gave up a lot, but I, you know, but I also had it very lucky in that I did not, you know, go down any of those sort of really weird dangerous roads that a lot of other child actors do.

Okay. So you probably had... But I did end up being an alcoholic and needing to... We'll get there. Yeah. So. Okay. You do develop good work ethic, good work habits, good prep, et cetera. and one of your blocks is complacency from early onset success. Yeah. Yes, yes.

So, I'm sorry. EOS, EOS as it's called in medical circles. All right, what's, what happened? Walk me through it and what happened to it? What happened? What was it like? We're all we're clearly talking about American pie. Excuse me?

So I am miserable. and I'm still kind of auditioning. I'm working at Gap Kids Baby Gap in the Garden State Plaza in New Jersey, the mall. And I auditioned for and book a part in a TV show that was already running and moved to L.A. I auditioned on a Tuesday. I was living at my parents' house working at Gap Kids. Wednesday, I get the call that I need to fly to L.A. on Thursday to read for Stephen Boshko, the producer. Flew out to L.A., read for Stephen.

Get the part. Fly home on Friday. being told my first episode starts on Monday, pack my bags and fly back on Sunday. So it was like, within a week, I went from that to being on a TV show in L.A. That show was canceled. At this point, I said,

I'm fucking staying out in L.A. This was it. I'm not going back. This was my sign. What year is this? This is 97. Okay. I'm going to stay out here.

Got a new agent, booked a pilot that did not get picked up. Fortunately, again, fortunately. because a month later I auditioned for in book wasn't called it at the time but American Pie It was like the first sex comedy

in a long time Yeah This one time at band camp I stuck a flute in my That was the sort of selling play It was like I remember people going like It's like porkies Yep

Why do they call you meat? Because it's so big Whatever like Fast times of Richmond High Totally awesome Yeah in the early 80s And they kind of stopped making them Yep

And then this was the first one back that was the whole sort of thing exactly you probably start to smell like oh it's going to be are you getting treated better like a month before it comes out when you start getting treated better by people in public by hollywood no by people in in in uh showbus yeah great question so um this is what i do guess so um even even in the lead up to the movie now the buzz around this thing was was so real yeah you know and this is the urge days of the internet, but, you know, there was a red band trailer that played before. It's the R-rated one where you probably fuck the pie. It's not what it looks like. Exactly. There was a shot of me in the pie in the movie. That's exactly right.

So, which I at first was like, why are you giving that away? Isn't that the thing? Yeah, yeah, I know. And it was brilliant. Turns out, because people don't care. It was fucking brilliant. And so the buzz around it was so tangible and wild. Were you, I have some general.

Yeah. Were you ashamed of your body? Did you want to work out before the scene? Did you do the push-ups before you start rolling? Did you know, like, I don't want to, where the White's brother is like, we don't want you to be in good shape? Was there, what was, it's a basically a nude scene. It's a humiliating nude scene. But like not.

Yeah. Talk to me. Yeah. Yeah. So I was definitely nervous about doing it, nervous about showing my ass. I was topless late, not in that scene, but in later scene dancing for Nadia in my bedroom. And the truth is I wasn't super hung up on it. I sort of, I mean, it was clear that this role, this gym was not the coolest of guys, you know.

But the anchor of the movie, the center of. piece of the movie sure but i also felt like um yeah i i would later become more hung up on on my body for sure um but but at the time i felt like it works for the role it works for this it's not a i was more just nervous about you know sort of show like showing my butt you know my parents are going to see this yeah well that's what i mean like do you and know yeah did you or fucking the pie my you know like these things are what's the do you you must have thought am i gonna try to fuck this pie right am i going to try to put it down on this pie uh-huh am i gonna like like fucking animal what like did you have a fuck plan yeah there was no there wasn't

really a plan although i will say i uh i remember reading the script and i thought it was fucking hilarious obviously and I was reading every script that there were at that point there was a sort of a teen movie surge but American Pie was the only one that was R-rated and was really well written and felt honest in its portrayal of teens in high school but also had the comedic element that was above all of these other scripts that I was reading um so I read this thing if you're young the term milf was yep oh I took some milf the hell's that I'm I'll F mom I'd like to fuck yeah I don't know invented but it was certainly no one had popular culture up till then now it's you it's a porn hub category I mean it's like it's a

category more than porn hub it's like it's it's a it's a it's a human category yeah yep totally and it did not exist before this movie did not exist before 1999 an American pie yes okay so you're reading that you must have been like a milf like it must have been so fucking fun all of it all of it there was so much of it the set pieces were just came at you no pun intended uh with such frequency and hilarity and it was just like non-stop and and again like i recognized these kids you know so i was like oh my god this is reading all these scripts be happy to book any of them sure this is what i really and i got it And that's, it was, I was so psyched and thought, kept, think thought throughout that whole

audition process, like I would do anything to play this role. This is this rib. I need to fuck this pie. But I show up on the day of filming that pie and I had a proper nervous sort of freak out. And I remember I called that manager who had sort of, you know, came to me earlier in that year, you know, and found me. And I was like, dude, am I really going to do this? right now like this is crazy because you know where you're operating in a bit of a vacuum here you don't

know yes it's a studio film you're not but it but it also felt independent in a lot of ways the studio was very hands off it was low budget for them and so it had it there was still like is anyone gonna fucking see this thing now again every step of the way reading the script casting all you meet all these other people you go to the table where you go holy shit these people are great this is really funny filming it oh my god this is really this has a lot of potential but Still, it was, I'm going to fuck this pie. Like, could this hurt my career? Like, I don't know.

Is this something? Is this porn? Like, what the fuck am I doing? And he told me, I remember being in my trailer. I was like, I'm not going to do this? And he was like, Jason, you go in there and you fuck that pie with all you got. And, you know, it was, I was still nervous. But we did the first take.

And I don't remember what the direction was. was um i think we kind of just went for it you know they they were very um particular about how far down my pants were pulled they wanted to see my ass without it being too weird and and graphic or gratuitous i mean that was the whole thing about any of these movies the way they don't work if it feels gratuitous all this stuff so they were they were really concerned speak for yourself go ahead the whites brothers were so fucking brilliant um but that was a concern and you know i so it was and it was a timing thing when eugene walks in and his reaction and all this stuff and there was all of these elements so i don't know if it was a real like you know

how hard or little i'm going to fuck the pie i think i did different shades of it but for that first take i just kind of went for it how many pies do you think well it was there was a lot on set that day and there were some unused pies that were served at craft service so it was absolutely So people were eating the pies that I... Dick Pie. Dick Pie, if you will, Dick Pie. And so I sort of went for it. And I just... Just finding out there's a class action suit for the people who eat the pie. Sorry, you're going to watch it. You're going to have to test it. Well, actually, I believe there might have been a lawsuit. There was a kid in Idaho who fucked a pie after the movie came out, but did not wait for it to cool down after it came out of the oven and got third degree burns on his cock. and I settled with him.

I settled with him. You didn't, it could have been, it could have won the suit. You just didn't want to waste time. And at that point, I knew there was a sequel. I was like, fuck it, pay him. I don't need this in my life. So I remember when action was called just thinking, as I did with any sort of comedy up to that point and still to this day, you have to commit. As you know, Mr. Brennan.

Sure. And action was called and I fully committed and I fucked the pie as if I was having the best sex of my life. That was sort of in my head. What little you know about sex at that point. What little I knew. Honestly, what little I knew about sex at that point. It's the best sex of your life. This is the best thing ever.

And I did it and they called Cut. And there was like a in my head there was a pause of like and and the entire. crew erupted in laughter. Great. And that, I'll never forget that moment as long as I live. That was the moment for me where I go, okay, anything fucking goes. Yeah. I could do anything I want comedically as long as, A, it makes sense in the story,

B, it feels grounded and possible, and C, I fucking commit 110%. And again, it's not all on. me it was a hilarious joke to write i mean that was it was like so fucking funny and absurd and who was the writer's name again this guy adam hers yeah adam hers who wrote the first three of the theatrical ones yeah and so it just worked it also weirdly your life is different yeah like oh okay fuck to pie applause break your life's never the same they're the same there is a that is a huge sort of very rarely in life do you get that clear a thing like there's a book Before I fucked the pie and after I fucked the pie.

Yep. Yep. And so, yeah. Walk me through the, okay, now we're there. Walk me through the upsides and the downsides of the after. There is one answer that is both upside and downside, which is no one says no to you. Like after that, you know, it's huge success. I'm one of the main stars of it.

they can't prove it's not you yes what it comes down to is like when you're negotiating sequels at a certain point you go do it without me they go we can do this without you go do it yeah and then it's a game of chicken

well now it's they have AI on their side it's a whole fucking other thing but yeah it was a game of chicken that worked to my advantage so when you say no one can say no to you what do you I'm so I mean so like on a on a on a on a you know on a you know I'm 20 21 when it I just turned 21 when it came out in a in a perfect bit of fortuitous timing I turned 21 in May and the movie came out in July and I started traveling for the movie like in May like I turned 21 and then was like on a plane to the Bahamas to do the MTV Beach house and like you know the life just took off with a serious boost of

rocket fuel at that point. And yeah, no one's saying no. I could get whatever I wanted and did. You know, I started doing a lot of drugs at this point and drinking a lot. And it just became this. You know, it was like, yeah, sort of. And I will say this. Like, I don't think it ever, it did go to my head, but not in the way where I became like this asshole. Again, always being able to draw upon my early successes as a kid and then early failures as a kid seeing the success and seeing it go away very quickly i really did and still do have that in my mind it's etched in there forever and it does it is a driving force behind my whole life and so i never felt like i got too big for my britches i never got super cocky i never i was always grounded knew it could

go away, but certainly enjoyed the fact that I could take advantage of this success. And, you know, and I was generous with it. Like I would, I loved taking. You would sleep with anyone. I mean, anyone. You were so giant. And people loved you for it. They loved me for it.

And sometimes even, I wasn't even awake when it was happy. They were just like, can I just? I was like, my dick is yours. Yeah, please, help yourself. My door is open. You do the little thing on the hotel room door so it can't close. Exactly. Put the chain up.

Come on in. But yeah, but no one said no. And like that was a great thing, of course. And it still is like a. No one says no sounds a little something. I think a better version of if I may do a rewrite. People said yes before I asked anything. Great.

That's better. You're right. You're right. People were like they wanted to. You're right. No one said no does sound like I'm just trying to go around fuck people. Yeah. You're right.

That's not, okay, I'm actually not even thinking about the sex, honestly, although, yes, there was that. I'm more thinking about it, like, you know, getting advantages that other people wouldn't get, you know? It's sort of like you become kind of used to this idea. But you're probably not asking, they're probably offering. Just offering. Yeah, so it's like, no, it's not like, you're like, I want, eh, and they go, we can't say no. He's fucking, fucking good. Exactly.

God, you're right. Now in hindsight, I am really feeling like that. I'm not cutting it. I know you're not cutting that. I know you're not cutting that, which is why I feel the need to. I need the, you're going to take that clever. Uh-huh. Fucker.

No, it does sound very sexual in its intention and it's the actual, the opposite. It's the, I would say it's the Eddie Murphy, Mr. White's get. Mr. White, you like to borrow $50,000 for my bank, but you have no collateral. You have no credit. you don't even have any ID is that correct that's right why don't you take your break

now I'll take care of Mr. White that was a close foot one that certainly was we don't have to bother with these formalities do we Mr. White what a silly Negro

like it's literally that's what it's like yeah exactly exactly and that you can't help but like build expectations based on that you know so like, you know, it's, that still follow me to this day that are like a little outlandish and bizarre.

And it's whether it's from waiting in a line, like, I can't wait in a line. It's like, why not? Yeah. You have people go, you do your own laundry. You're like, yeah. Yeah, I sure do. But also, you know, it's, it was dangerous. I mean, I was partaking in drugs and alcohol and sex, yes.

I'll go into that now. Like, yeah, there was, there was. a partying component to it all that I had access to now that I took full advantage of and that was dangerous but fun but incredibly fun

but you're 20, 21 incredibly fucking fun so it was also this wonderful perk of the success as well what was the hierarchy in terms of status on that meaning like you'd all be doing events

who did most girls want to sleep with Sean William Scott the stiff man showed him the way can I get a holly o'allie Oh, that's interesting. I, I, yeah, probably. I mean, yeah, I think in Chris Klein was a handsome, handsome devil.

But, you know, you'd be surprised. Like, I, I, you'd be like that you're my secret. Oh, dude, I used to get that all the time. Yeah. Like, I, God, you're, or I'd get a lot of, because then after the movie came out, I got in shape. And, um, and so I would get a lot of like. Saw yourself on screen. You were like, some things need to change.

Some things need to change now that I'm, yeah. So I would get a little bit of, or a lot of, God, you're much cuter in person. You're much hotter in person. You know, I was like, oh, really? Yeah. So a lot of that worked to my advantage. But it didn't even matter, bro. It honestly didn't even matter.

I mean, even before the movie came out, like, whether it was like, you know, extras on the set of the movie, they know that you're number one in the call sheet. Yeah. And it's just an automatic, like, oh, hey, and you're, you have this access suddenly that. What's it due to you? um all of like all of it so you when do you realize so you it comes out you probably start getting offered are you getting good money movie offers yeah yeah yeah some some of which i'm passing on like which is crazy i mean anything you should not have passed on in retrospect uh in retrospect all of the money gigs i should not have passed on because i ended up doing shitty movies anyway

that's funny that i didn't get paid as much for perhaps that i thought we're going to you know it's Like, and also now, by the way, fast forward, I'm 40 years old. I have a wife and two kids, mortgage payment in New York City. Yeah. My, you know, the industry is upside fucking down. It's evaporating. People are being vaporized in front. In front of us.

It's Omaha Beach. Right? So when I think about the million dollars I turn down at 21 years old to go do, by the way, a movie that J.J. Abrams wrote before he, I go, what in the actual fuck was I? thinking yeah but i was 21 years old with offers coming out of you know fucking fuck j j abram you know and like he so great dollars fucking don't insult me yeah i mean it's just yeah there so yes there's there's there are regrets my friend um but yeah what does it do to you it it you know there it's it's uh it's expectations it's sort of it skews your expectations in a in a sort of interpersonally every social every interaction you have with the human being you

You're kind of like... Yeah, there's a little bit of the right's eyebrow. Like, you know who I am, you know? You want to do the C's or the hard way? Dude, exactly. Exactly right. By the way, I'm at a really... I don't...

I'm not approaching this as like, you're a fucking entitled asshole. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know I'm not, and I feel like... And I also know, like, you become an alcohol. I know I... Yeah. You've given me enough fast forwards that I'm like, okay, you, it ends up...

Whatever's bad ends up sort of, you end up panning... the sort of shrew the filter yeah yeah yeah so is there like a snapshot of a thing where you're like that was wild and that that was is there like a bottom not necessarily like and then you decide to get over whatever but just like this is all very crazy you know i'll say that the sort of the the crazy um exploits of my because then of course you know i got had a girlfriend for a while during that time. So the exploits and the insanity sort of would kind of contract for a little while, but I was still drinking every day and drugging, you know, so that... What drugs?

I loved cocaine. Loved cocaine. I would take any... As I once directed, it's a hell of a drug. Cocaine's a hell of a drug, man. That's right. It's a hell of a drug. And, you know, this was the late 90s, early 2000s. I also loved ecstasy. I would do ecstasy by myself. I did how often on a car ride to fucking in the mountains once um to ralphs to dude i would go to rock and roll ralphs me always fucked up were you treated well at rock and roll ralph in 1999 high and exe fucking guy from american by you goddamn right i was fucking free deli meats as many grapes i used to go there for a roast beef sandwich their deli was braved i know what you were there for as many fucking grapes as you could you could finger oh god yeah i mean talk

about the pie section. Oh, to forget it. They literally would roll out a red carpet for me. It just down that aisle. It was a hard day's night with you and pie in the Ralph in the Ralph's pie section. Oh, God, yeah. So, you know. How about this?

This is an X-Sequard. You're not supposed to do it more than every three months for it to work well. Oh, man. I would do it every weekend for like a year, I felt like. People have read it would like to talk to it. MdMA, Reddit. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and I haven't done it since it's been, since the name change to Molly,

I know, by the way. Like, I'm like, Molly to MDMA, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. But ecstasy, it's why, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, from ecstasy to Molly. I'm like, what, what are you doing? You miss a whole, you miss two cycles. Toll, I miss two cycles of that. Which means it would work really well now. I know, whatever, we're just got more, more pure.

Don't be touch it. I know, dude, believe me, the shit that it was cut with back then. And we would take multiple in a night. It was always like, we were like, we were Mr. Wizards, you know, we were little chemist. We'd be like, oh, you're peaking is the time to take another one. Yeah, which is absolutely not true. Not true at all. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Guys, we turn to some funny places for support. But, you know, the internet, TikTok, Instagram, your mom, your friend, your boys, not everyone's a therapist. I don't know if you knew this. Not everyone has any,

in fact, no one's, almost no one's a therapist. It's very hard to become a therapist. A lot of people pretend they know what they're doing. They don't. You turn to the wrong person. You get advice that feels good. It's probably not good advice. And then if your relationships are like, you got to leave her, you got to, you know, you got to, you're not having sex or they're good enough. You got to buy or something, whatever. Or even it's not relationships.

It's just you're depressed. And they go, you should have you tried yoga? Yeah, no, I hadn't thought of it until you just said it. Instead, get guidance from a credentialed therapist online with better help. First of all, you know my lady's a therapist, so that helps. I also have very intelligent friends, very competent, whatever. They're smart, funny men and ladies, but they're not therapists. You know, they say laughter is the best medicine?

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Neil, don't do it. Get your hands off. Oh, get your hands off. Oh, man. Nutrients. You're drinking, you're doing X-D, you're doing cocaine, and it's fun and retrospectively dangerous. What do you think's happening? So for a while I thought this is all going great.

My career is still, you know, going well. Any failures that I had in my career up to that point, I could sort of, you know, I could, they stung. You did, so you did American Pie, and then you did. I did like boys and girls ooh that's the kiss of death with freddy prince junior loser American pies Jason bigs again Amy heckerling I was like yes please

but the movie didn't perform you know I like it I think it's a really cool little movie and I don't regret doing it but it did me no favors career wise but okay and now you go from being one of eight people on a poster to the I was there like you're the only guy of the poster I mean yeah I was the only guy in the poster were you confident like I think I

I think I'm ready to be the only guy poster yeah i was i i felt like yes i'm ready to be and you know and and i think too there was a bit of if there was entitlement i think that it sort of played in there as well like i felt like i'd been doing this you know people talk about overnight success and they would say it to me like oh crazy over and i'm like motherfucker i've been doing this since 1983 i've had my sad card since 87 i have worked my ass off um and like i fucking know i earn this i should i should be solo on a movie poster like i'm good i'm funny i'm good i like i can be whatever the the thing i need to be and um and i know my uh what i can't do and i'll stay try to stay away

from that but i yeah i could do this i could be a fucking movie star and then you go oh shit two of those movies come out they don't fucking work and um and it's a hit at the to the ego for sure but i was still able to sort of drink and drug my way through it enough still had enough offers coming in to where it felt like you know oh okay you know that losers failure were you know lack of success I guess at the box office could be more attributed to the filmmaker right you know like it's tough weekend it's a tough competition was tough they gave us a weird yeah it was February yeah yeah they there's a million issues yeah yeah what do you think the difference is between a movie star and a movie actor if you've

ever thought about it. I think likeability is a huge part of it. In order to be a movie star and to really like get to that kind of level, people have to want you to get there. They have to like you. There has to be, I think, like a charming sort of general likeability that makes that, regardless of the kinds of roles that you play, that makes them want you to get there. Obviously, there's looks, right? But, you know, Bob Odenkirk is now a movie star. He didn't get there because of his looks he is so fucking likable and by the way talent yeah you know of course talent i actually don't even think bob is that likable that's what's fascinating about it interesting i think his okay i think if you take mr show for example and again like i bob odenkirk is like in my hall of fame

yeah on mr show bob wasn't the charismatic one oh hold on i'm doing a show tonight well i think it's tonight. I should probably write those things down. No, right. It was. Dave was. Dave was. Wow. But, but if you, what he's playing. Like, Saul is actually, you root for that guy despite his shadiness. And it's because of Bob, because you like whatever that is that he's giving off. The thing he's beaming out is like, I like him. I like him.

I like him. Grab a juice box. Have a nap. Go on. And now he's a movie star. And he's still given off that, like, one of the characters he's playing in these movies, like the under the guy who happens to become, like, his action star, right? I'm going to fuck you up. So, yeah, there's looks, of course.

But, like, yeah, I think you can get there with talent and likability, charm, you know? But then you have to make good choices, too, because the other part of this is the fans have to get you there, and then the industry has to get you there. And they kind of feed each other, Of course, the industry will keep getting you, pushing you, and getting you, putting, giving you these offers if the fans are saying, we want more of him.

And that's, you know, reflected in box office. But, you know, it's opportunities, the right scripts, et cetera. And, you know, it's, uh, you do with- And choices and forks and like the only available thing. And, yep, there's so many arbitrary things that come into play, of course. Is this something you beat yourself up about? A little bit. Like, I wonder, something a hang up of mine that I've, that I've thought a lot about.

is we'll call it a block go ahead why don't we call it a block great um this isn't hangups with neil brandon no it's not not not not yet not yet uh patent pending i you know should I have held out if you will I'm not even talking about choices okay I'm talking about your role on earth if we're going to get spiritual a little bit yeah every time you sign up to do another sequel for America yeah is there a part of you that's like like fuck i'm do i'm money great i am this i am like known with it it's i'm on this ship and i'm typecast and i wish i is there a part of you that's like i wish i i i know for myself like there are portions of my talent that i'm very happy with and very and then there are

limitations where i'm like motherfucker if only i was as likable as ex is only if only if only I was opinion, whatever, is there a version of that for you within your career? It's funny, the sequels in a lot of ways helped my confidence, certainly helped the bank account. And I never really vacillated on it. I wanted to do the sequels, you know, obviously I didn't tell Universal that when I was negotiating. But I also, in between these sequels, I was doing these other movies that weren't working. Right. That's what I mean.

Yeah. And so it was very much like, on the one hand, I started at a certain point, probably around American Pie 3. These things keep happening to me. Actually, it was after that. It was after the Woody Allen movie. There was something compelling about your apathy. So 2003, I'm now doing my third American Pie movie that summer. Biggest paycheck still that I've gotten to date, probably always will be.

$75,000. It's very sad. Listen, flat screen TV, new mattress, and a forerunner. Hello. Actually, that was what I, that literally was what I got with my first American pie check. It was a Toyota forerunner, a flat screen TV, and a new mattress. You know, I kept having American pie to sort of feed not only myself with food because I could afford to buy really good food. but also feed my ego, you know, I kept, I would have these failures, but, but I was still

getting offers up away from it and I was, you know, and I was having all of this box office success with the American Pie movies, but it started to become a little, started to come into focus perhaps a little later for me than it did for the people that were hiring me, that my success was becoming more dependent on just the American Pie franchise, perhaps. And it was around that time. I remember coming off of American Pie 3, kind of thinking that a little bit, but again, going, all right, I just got paid, you know, money that, you know, I hit the lottery here. And then I get cast in the Woody Allen movie around the same time.

And I was doing the graduate on Broadway. So I was still like, while I was, it was becoming more clear. It was sort of getting this, it was kind of going through this funnel of, unless you're playing Jim Levinestein, you are going to have a shitty opening weekend. Because I was like, well, I'm on Broadway. And it was a box office thing on Broadway that was huge. Woody Allen. And then Woody Allen.

But then the Woody Allen movie doesn't work either. You know, that sort of. And then it's sort of really, I had a moment probably. 2005-ish where I'm like oh man and and now I'm getting offered TV stuff and here's where some regret really starts to happen as I sit here I have regrets about decisions I made at this point in my career because I was still like and how much of it was ego I don't know how much of it was poor guidance from representatives I don't know how much of it was just a um, fear on my part or complacency, um, I would pass on some of these TV opportunities.

There was, you know, um, this sounds defensive. But, you know, there was a bit of a weird stigma still around television, right? Like you, there were TV people and then there were movie people. Yeah. You know, I thought I was still a movie person. Yeah. You know, and so I pass on how I met your mother like a fucking idiot. It was very soon after that that I go, oh, no, wait, I, okay, wait, hold on. I want, I, blah, blah, blah, blah. I do want to be on TV. And then I take a bracket, you know, I get another development deal and I make a pilot and I did a and I get on TV in this one series

and it bombs. And I go, oh, oh, fuck. Now I can't even now I'm having trouble in even the TV. Now I'm like, all right, I guess I'll go do TV. My fallback plan is, right? And so things start to go, you start to go, okay, here's that thing I warned

myself about. And where are you with drugs and alcohol at this point? Flying. Flying because it's helping through all of this. It's helping. It's helping. What is it, what did it do for you? Quiet the negative thoughts? It quieted the negative thoughts. I had a lot of snakes in my head. It quieted them down. It made it easier to, you know, and also. You run anxious? I run incredibly anxious. Right. OCD, debilitating OCD as a kid before I was medicated. And I wasn't yet medicated at this point. Medicated with what? Zoloft for the OCD. For the OCD? Yeah. Well, it wasn't until I was in my late 20s. So during this whole time. Give me some. Give me a little something. Give me a little tape. Let me give me a little glimpse. Well, as a kid, I mean, it was, it was a bit whackamole. It had a few different forms of it. There was the germ side. I germ a, you know, germ OCD. So I would wash my hands until they bled. They cracked, dry and bled in the winter in New Jersey, especially. And I would, you know, they would just be raw. I would do it raw. And then, you know, there was like religious scrupulosity version of, of, of, you know,

OCD where, you know, I would, like, I would get in bed at night. By the way, this is, this would be, I would get in bed and have to have to blow on my bare feet to blow the germs, whatever I had stepped in from the shower or whatever around the house, blow the germs on my feet until I felt, until they felt sufficiently cleansed. Five minutes? Maybe not that long. I think I had like sort of a quick system down at that point.

Hold a foot. Hold a foot. It was kind of like I would, I would like kind of crouch down. towards them. I wasn't very limber. And I would also rub them together to rub the germs off and then kind of like blow on them. And then I'd get in bed. And then once I'd get in bed, I would have this horrible thing. I don't know how long it lasted me. It was, it was a thing over a certain period of time. But it was brutal. I would get in bed. And whatever number would pop into my head could be eight, hopefully, could be 48. That would be the number of Hail Mary's active condition. and our fathers. Not Catholic school, but we were Christmas Catholics. We'd go to Sunday school, confirmed, baptized, communion, all the things. And just a general, you know, the God that I sort of grew up around was a God to be feared.

You know, I would, you know, my parent, I would bang my knee on something. Oh, fuck. And it'd be like, well, God punishes, you know, for that thing I did before, you know, before that. right so i would heck of an ideology yeah heck of an ideology really really just uh that's a god i want to help me through life and so i 48 let's say i would have to do 48 our fathers 48

48 act of contritions and 48 hell marries and if i messed up at any point along the way i would have to go back to the beginning of course you do before i could go to sleep or else you know god would strike me dead or my mother oh my god an hour or two hours yeah whatever and then you take so off and it's over okay Well, that didn't last. That I grew up.

I would grow out of these things and it would take a different shape or form. So, you know, I remember in my sort of L.A., this was in Jersey growing up, but like in my L.A. Success, post-American pie, pre-Zoloff, but still, but partying and doing all these things, it became a lot of just like general snakes in my head, paranoia. Oh, my God, what did I say to that person? And how much of that was my OCD and how much of it was I was wasted last night. And I did I talk to that? studio head and tell him that you know i thought his daughter was hot like what the fuck right so it's a lot of just like constantly constantly just replaying things beating myself up tripping about things

also short temper that would come out in weird places you know whether it was uh road rage weird things and um and it wasn't until yeah i guess it was like 27 or something maybe that i that i that i finally started seeing a therapist and started taking Zoloft. And that was almost it kicks in. It almost, it, it changed my life. Zolop worked for me in three days. I don't know if it was three days, but I do remember the feeling. I don't remember what it was.

I wish I did. I wish I remembered the exact thing it was, but I'll never forget the feeling of the first time I started to trip out about something, had a thought that was like, oh, fuck, and putting it away. and going it's all good that feeling which was totally new never had it in my life never put a feeling away in your fucking life ever yeah it blew me away and i was like oh my fucking god anyway it changed my life zoloft um this next break brought to you by better help eli lily uh makers of zoloft Uh-huh. Okay, so you start, it's, it's, the career is getting a little, a little dicey.

Mm-hmm. You're still drinking drugs. Drinking and drugs. And then, and also because the career is getting dicey, I would have longer stretch. I mean, when American Pie first came out, I was like being flown in PJs. To Dubai, to have sex with sheiks. Fuck pies. On yachts in the Gulf of Arabia. million dollar pie otherwise known as the Persian Gulf of America the Gulf of America yeah thank you Trump I would I was working nonstop fucking like couldn't keep track of shit and now here I was with stretches stretches of like you know just kind of and you know again I would find ways to go okay it's all good be it drugs and alcohol or money right I had had a bit of a wind

fall right with the American Pie film so I was like okay I'm good I can go these stretches but it was the thing I had warned myself about and despite the warnings and despite being I think better equipped to handle the sort of downturn than most people in my position would be it's still fucked with my head of course of course it did it was an ego it was an ego shot um go ahead did the fact that you were on a ensemble, did that, could you, were there people you kind of compare notes with, or was it everyone's experience was so different? That for every one, there were people that you were jealous of,

and then there were people that were jealous at you on the cast and like. Yeah, it was kind, it was a, it was a little tricky. It wasn't really something I would speak about with the cast. One of my best friends in the world is Eddie K. Thomas, who played Finch in the movies. And we certainly talk a lot about it. it now because we were both kid actors actually i've known him since he was eight years old uh in the city and um we would audition together all the time we weren't friends because he was

one of those professional children school kids that like had freedom and independence and was living in the city and i would get my mom's minivan and drive back to jersey so we never hung out or even really talked to each other but we were at every audition together um we've now since become best friends and we talk about all of this a lot now in adulthood um and you know sobriety and stuff and just parenthood and how it's changed us all. And, but at the time, yeah, it's kind of weird because you knew you were getting paid differently than some of these people.

And it was kind of weird and secretive. You know, it wasn't the Friends cast where it's like, we're all together. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah. So you don't really have that as a resource. I don't really have that as a resource. Yep.

I don't really have it as a resource. So you're drinking drugs. It's starting to like regret choices that I'm making along the way and starting to wonder if I need to make some sort of changes. But again, change, fearing what's on the other side of things, I would sort of always, you know, I was always more passive, you know, and I had always also, no matter how long the downturn

would be, something had always come back for me. Something had always turned up. So I also had in my head, ah, you know, it's okay, you know? But it was hard to get through that, to get on the other side of that. And sometimes the stretches were getting longer and longer. And, yeah, it was kind of a, it was a really sort of rough spell. And now I met and married my wife during this time, which was great. But I was still using a ton. Did she party? Did she know?

Why don't you ask the questions? Why don't you ask the questions, Brandon? You know where I'm going. Go. Did she party? Did she know? This is how, that's called, that's how I really. What's stupid questions?

You wrote it and I, you wrote it and I, you wrote it, and I, put the English on ask me something real when did she know jason um so she um she says and i kind of vaguely remember this but she will she says that i uh she asked me early on in our dating if i drank every day and i said yeah like sort of like yeah of yeah of course i i did why you stupid what's the what are you smart ass don't ask me stupid questions like brennan does yeah fucking geez what is a podcast uh 15 years and so so there were there were signs but um but i also drank a lot myself and also jenny was very also you know had her own stuff happening and career that she was focused on and um and i hit it very well and i love drinking by my and drugging by myself

case and point ecstasy in a car um on the way to whistler canada um but i was fine hiding it she would go to bed before me i'd stay up doing blow in the other room you know i could you know and i under and tell her what i'm gonna play video i'm gonna be on the internet what yeah i'm just gonna go and watch more tv you know i had like a big big screen you know drop down fucking man cave thing and i'm just gonna go in there i'm not tired yet and damn right i'm not tired for another three days um and so yeah a lot of shit like that like that and um uh yeah so it was just like getting darker for me um and then twitter came around and i started to like tweet a lot and for jenny it became you know and also for you for a lot of people like twitter was a really

real home run. People who knew how to do it right. Like Twitter was this whole new sort of thing that changed a lot of people's ball games, including my wife's. And to an extent, me, I was like my career was kind of like I was, you know, I was still like getting offers, doing indie here, doing a guest star there. I was still, you know, whatever. I would say from what I remember, it gave you more dimension. Okay. Because he was just like, I don't know, fucking. This guy who does this. And then it was like, oh, he's opinionated and funny. Okay. So, thank you saying that that was my intent yeah and i really ran with others hated it kidding no others did hate it that's where i'm going with this so like i i really saw it as an opportunity to show a side

of myself whether it was a provocation because i was like my humor skewed darker provocative i'm a huge howard stern fan like i you know i was like why can't i i can you know and i was like an opportunity to show people and my favorite response that i would get to a tweet was whoa bigs didn't realize you were you know so funny dark whatever i would love that shit and my following grew so i'm thinking okay but now there were hate there was hate as well and then i kind of just you know got super dark with my tweets and you know ended up it ended it bled into my career and i ended up losing a job and at the time because of my drinking and drugging i sort of again like blamed it on other people compartmentalized it moved past it said not my problem doesn't matter not my fault

what were your go-to moves as a user of Twitter no or drug like you said you you sort of like just walk me were those your main moves like not my fault not my problem like fuck off I'm fine yeah I think it was a lot of not taking responsibility for that's a in every aspect of your life. Every aspect, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot of that. I mean, I would start to go there, like,

did I make the wrong choices and this and that? But it would be like, no, it's, I was advised wrong, you know, or I just, you know, there was a million reasons why that movie didn't work, you know, it wasn't me. And then when I would start to even entertain those thoughts of it being about me, when I should be leaning into those thoughts and saying, saying, hey, well, what part of this is my responsibility? And how can I move on from it?

And how can I learn from it? Instead of leaning in, I would drink and drug my way out of it. And so I never had to look at my own shit, ever. And this worked, and this was in my relationship with my wife. This worked in my relationship with my parents, my family. It worked in my relationships with my representatives, my career, anything that I, any place that I could and should have looked at my own. sort of part in all of it, I was able to, you know, say, oh, no, no, no, no, be passive and go ahead

and drink and drug my way out of it. You know, it was very easy. And until it wasn't. And it just kept sort of, you know, it became an every, I mean, it was always an everyday drinker, but it became like a obsession, you know, it used to be like I would just party every day. because I could and you know like oh after filming drinks yeah for sure I'm young successful all is good um so I didn't drink every day in that sense now it was like oh I need to drink to quiet the snakes in my head to get through the day to avoid you know shakes and shit like I really like it wasn't there were days where I was like oh fuck like I need to get a drink soon you know like I was definitely feeling it physically but you know

when I would have like a stretch of fucking like really getting drunk at night kind of days and going to sleep and waking up and after like two hours going, oh fuck, I like have to get a fucking drink in me. So there was a physical component. Yes, it wasn't as bad. I was listening to the Nick. Short, yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Like I was never hospitalized. That was never like, you know, like that. I wasn't like people were like, Jason is something. What the fuck is wrong with you, you know? But up here, it was a fucking disaster. Like I just could not. wait to get the first drink in me, you know? To end the nuts, the nonsense. Yeah, yeah, I just couldn't wait. And like, so some days, you know, depending on my schedule, if I had an audition or a meeting

in the afternoon, I could wait. I would wait and I would prepare and I would go on the audition. I'm sure I wasn't in a, on my A game at all. But it felt to me like I was being responsible enough. But the minute the audition was over, I was going to the liquor store and drinking in my car before I drove home. or on the drive home like fucking awful unsafe

terrible regret it terribly but if I happen to have an early meeting great even better if I happen to have nothing that day I would especially need to drink because I would need to get out of the like why do I have nothing today there were many of those days but the good news there was I could get up and go to my bar and just chug vodka from the bottom

my bar my man cave oh in your house yep I had a bar and beer on tap and the whole thing, man, yeah. And, man, people must have thought you were fun. Oh, yeah, I was really fun. It's so cool that you have a bar in your house. Bar in my house. I've hosted barbecues all the time.

It was great. It was great, man. I can man the grill like a motherfucker. Oh, man. Was this in the Valley or in the Hollywood Hills? West Hollywood Hills, Sunset Plaza, dope spot, great views. Yeah, man, we did it. We did it.

Like you read about. Like you read about. Sean White was my neighbor. threw a palm tree in my pool once to fuck with me. That's so cool. It was cool, man. Yeah. And what made you stop this incredibly cool shit?

So. As much as I make fun of the idea that this is cool, there was a steady cultural diet from the time we were born that this was cool. This was cool. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it still kind of exists,

but like at least now people know alcohol is poison and... Yes. Yes. They do it less, et cetera, but, like, it was, it was cool. Oh, it was totally cool. Smoking was I smoked a ton, like, yeah, smoking cigarettes all the time. Like, I can't even, I'm now someone in the streets in New York walks by smoking a cigarette. I'm like, are you fucking crazy?

You're smoking. Mm-hmm. Get away from me. Yeah, so, no, it was super cool. You're just joining us. It was super cool. So what made you stop? What made you go so fucking uncool?

Yeah. So it was... Look, we've all been there. Fall rolls around. You start digging through your closet. You're looking for warmer clothes. Nothing feels quite right anymore. You're a different person than you were last fall.

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Pete Holmes' hair is matched only by his ability to laugh at his own jokes. Why am I going after Pete? I'm going to get a very fun text about this. Modern mammals. Go to modern mammals.com. They're trying to get the word out. I use it. It's great.

You just zoop it. And it's just like the way you use conditioner. It's great. Modern mammals.com. So what made you stop? What made you go so fucking uncool? Yeah. So it was my wife getting pregnant.

That was sort of the thing. And, you know, they say, like, you can't get sober for anyone or anything else. You got to do it for yourself, all the things. And that is true, I think. I don't think it's, I think you can try to get sober for someone else. If that's the impetus, if that's the thing, if that's the, you have your bottom and you go, oh, my God, I'm going to lose this. If I don't get sober, great.

Let that be the fucking reason. But to stay sober, you got to be in there for yourself. And I found that out because it took me four years, basically, of relapsing to put, you know, before I was able to, you know, put this current chunk of time to get it. You start for her. Yep. Mm-hmm. Going like a three-day bender. We found, she, like, was positive.

A. J.I. It was a bumpy time. yes i don't you should have drank when you're pregnant wife's age i'm yeah you know it was like look um but you know i knew there were meds that could no we'll prep you know it's like different it wasn't 87 you know it wasn't 1990 it was yeah exactly so i was like but still i was like i got a drink um and uh yeah so she's pregnancy positive and uh yeah under the guise of celebrating i you know know, it was like Memorial Day weekend, just partied the whole weekend, and then sort of came out of that. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, I'm going to have a kid. Like, I want to have a

kid. I was, you know, like, we were trying. Was she saying, what the fuck are you doing? Or you, it was more me. You thought it before she did. Okay. It was more me. And, and, uh, yeah. And, and again, I was really good at hiding it. Um, you know, I could sort of, you know, my alcoholism was the kind where, like, I, let's say we were having a party. I would drink by myself upstairs straight from the vodka bottle just enough to get my buzz on so that I could go down to the party and then I have the beer in my hand and everyone else would think that was I just there I have my first beer beer number one but I'm already buzzed enough to where I can sort of hang and party that was my alcoholism and then when the night was over you know I'd be doing cocaine by myself in the you know in the man cave because I had gotten so drunk and I needed to whatever. It's funny because it's like you're, in some ways, your appearance helps you hide it. Yeah, right. Because you like, you play nebushy guys.

Totally. So like, you're, I can tell you something Jason's not doing. He's much more likely to be, he's not drinking vodka. No, by himself. He either has diarrhea or he's fucking a pie. Exactly, exactly. Like there's, so it works sort of in your favor and against you in the long term. I can't tell you how many times.

I've been, because of course, I would party with strangers, you know, and put myself in situations and go to people's homes. Yeah. Like, I had just met in weird places and, you know, because I was searching for drugs or whatever. And like, but the amount of times that people, you know, would be like, you party, bro? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, shock. Yeah. Shock. Um, and honestly, like, I think there was always a little bit of myself. that was also surprised like really like I think there was always in the same way that I always was shocked that I lived in L.A. for as long as I did like I live in a I like it I like it's me now but I but is it me yeah people go how long you're out here for you go 11 years yeah but I but I'm a new year I you know like obviously I'm going to go back to New York I can't raise a fan like

it was the same sort of thing like you know I really like I'm this guy that's like looking for cocaine in the streets of Uganda you know like Kampala the capital of literally like went walking the streets of one of the most dangerous cities because I wanted to find cocaine idiot would you did did people find you no this is a two part question did you find it and did the movie help I found it but not by walking on the streets okay I found it later with a guest at the party that we were going to at the hotel and why were you there for the party we were there for a charity event that uh and to like hike with um trek for mountain gorillas and do like this charity to raise

awareness for the mountain gorillas and there was like a party at the hotel to associated with it that person before ellen bought all the gorillas exactly right um but now all the gorillas do cocaine because of me which is uh which is really interesting and pretty great and they're like you i party wait I'm a guerrilla. I party? I never saw myself. This is crazy. And I can't believe that I live in Uganda.

I always thought I would stay in New York. I know. And I was a Rwandan gorilla in my head. But I'm in here I am. In the windy impenetrable forest. I thought I'd be in Varunga, you know. This fucking guy who can drop gorilla references. Knowledge.

Well, there's a reason I can. Hello. Because of the cocaine. Because of the blow I did in with the gorilla. Was this decent cocaine? It was decent cocaine. Okay, great. It was decent.

Decent. Okay. But, yeah, and I did not, no one recognized me. While we're here, what's the best cocaine you've ever done? Possibly in Costa Rica. Also did some incredible farm to table. Farm to table. Also some incredible in Uruguay, not to be confused with Uganda, another U.S.

Uruguay. We were in Punta del Este, two party, one New Year's. We would, my friends and I would take these New Year's trips, usually to somewhere warm, Southern Hemisphere, conveniently located near the cocaine manufacturers. Beautiful coincidence. Beautiful coincidence. To party, to party. How, okay, since we're here. So, Uruguay was one of the best, and Costa Rica, one of the best, yeah, for sure.

And when you get there, do you have a local favorite? is it one of these things where there's a bit of the thing with like the Epstein thing where they're like he knew all these people because there's like uh i call it the winner circle the high there's like a winner circle of like this understood thing that like i'm going to hook you up with my guy in irogui or and and that's what happened yep a hundred percent very good yep and that's why he's in the Epstein bottom. Okay, so, so you're, so you're like, all right, I got to get sober. I have to this three day thing and you, do you start going to meeting?

I start going to meeting. So it was my, I tell my therapist first and Jenny, my wife and my therapist, interestingly, it was, you know, I've been going to her for quite a few years at that point and was regaling her with these stories of my using, of my using, you know. And when I told her, I think I might have a problem and wanted to try getting sober, she told me that she wasn't sure if she was going to tell me this, but she wants to, that she was sober for 34 years at that point. And she knows how she could help me. And I was like, oh, my fucking God. And then, of course, immediately I'm thinking like, oh, my God,

I was telling her this story about, like, you know, fucking doing this drug and that drug and all this shit and she's just sitting there like sober. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, judging the fuck out of me. But of course,

I, you know, she was not judging me. But what was I saying? Yeah, so I decided to get sober. She helps me out. She hooks me up with someone. I was afraid of going to rehab in hindsight. I think it would have been a really positive experience for me.

But I'm like, I can't go to rehab. What if that gets out? And so she's like, I'm going to set you up with a friend of mine who can take you to an A.A. meeting. What do you know about AA? I'm like, not much. Colt, right? I decide to meet this woman. She takes me to my first AA meeting. The story of my first AA meeting is interesting. So we go. She takes me to this little coffee shop on Vine. And it's just like a long table. And I'm thinking, I thought we were going to go to a meeting that was sort of big. And I could kind of hang in the back and keep my hoodie up and my hat on. and sort of, you know, be anonymous.

Right. And that was not the meeting we went to. And not to begrudge her, if she is listening. She's wonderful, and I just think I didn't communicate what I wanted. And she betrayed you. And she betrayed me. No, she's obviously, I have a lot of gratitude for this woman. So she takes me to this meeting, though, and it's like eight people around the table.

And I don't know where, and there's going to be a speaker, you know, if you know how A. A works. Oftentimes, there's someone who qualifies. It's called they speak about, you know, they speak for 20 minutes or so. They tell their story and then other people in the room can kind of share. And so I don't know where the speaker is sitting. I just sit down in this one chair. It turns out the speaker was sitting right next to me and just kind of like got up right there. And so I'm right next to the speaker, sort of front and center. It's this guy who starts sharing his story, which is sort of laced with resentment towards. successful Hollywood people like like literally goes so far as he was an actor trying to be an

actor in LA yeah was having a hard time of it was talking very specifically about you know having resentment towards successful actors um I remember at one point do you think he saw you no no no no at this point I'm like and you're repeatedly clearing your throat as he's saying yeah no I'm actually just trying to, I'm trying to disappear into the fucking floor. I don't want him to see me. Hat is even more down. I'm mortified. You know what could have helped you at that point? A drink.

Cocaine. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So I, I'm like trying to avoid him. I'm just so mortified and he's like talking about, I remember at one point he mentioned specifically like, yeah, the actor, you know, with their beautiful houses in the hills and I'm like, literally, I'd just come from

my beautiful house in the hills. And And I just remember towards the end, I think after he finished, and it's sort of going around the room and people are like sharing, I looked up at one point and he caught my eye and it was the both of us just shared this really insane, ridiculous, horrible moment of just regret on my part for looking up and being there, regret on his part for everything he had just said. It was weird. It was awkward, but you're both, he's, whatever, he's a lot to be resentful. But again, one of the tenants of AA is like, you know what, honesty and fucking letting go and, you know, and sort of being honest about your resentments, whatever it is. So, yeah, so whatever. I don't remember the rest of that meeting, but I do remember leaving the meeting saying, or not saying anything. I just remember my now friend, this woman who was helping me saying, okay, I'm sorry.

let me take you to another meeting tomorrow will you give me one more chance and i was like yeah sure and i'd already plan i wasn't planning on saying fuck that that's not for me i wasn't planning on that but i definitely needed another crack at it and so the next day we went to a much different meeting and i ended up hearing my story one of the shares you know i remember hearing someone go i'm thinking oh fuck yeah i really relate to that and you know anyway and then i just kind of stayed in the program as much as I could, you know, one of the great ironies of my sobriety journey is that... Time us up. He said journey.

Journey. Fuck. Here we go. It's been great. It's been great. Thank you for having me. That's the end of the podcast. Folded up. Thank you for having me. I thought it was a drinking game wherever you say journey, you can drink. I know you did. So, of course you did. Of course you did. Because you're sick. Okay, so you kind of buy in Yeah, so I spent one of the ironies I was saying like I spent the last

couple years of my drinking, you know, telling myself that I had a problem and I needed to get sober. And then I spent the first couple of years of my sobriety telling myself, I don't have a problem. I could drink healthy. I could do this, so I kept relapsing. And so, yeah, it kind of clicked, if you will, four years in. And the relapse is maybe a big word for it, but it was mostly like I can ride without I can ride without the training wheels take these off now I'm good I'm good and then you oh fuck I need them I need training wheels for life yep I know that's a tough one

yeah I'm like no I'm not gonna do the right thing yeah I won't I will I will put my I will ride with no hands and I will hit a pothole yep and I'll break my elbow which is exactly what I did when I was six years old and that's that's what I will do and so keep the training wheels on and I have to yeah I have to keep going and keep, you know, talking to other alcoholics and that's sort of, that's what works for me. Um, but, you know, the biggest thing for me where it's helped has been, you know,

acceptance and taking personal responsibility for everything in my life, you know. So, whether that's career stuff or, you know, relationship stuff, it's, you know, it's given me an opportunity to sort of look inward. That's the main way you think you've changed is like, I think so. I think so, yeah, is trying to keep my side of the street clean. I continue to fuck up. I continue to fall back on old triggers, you know, and I, by the way, I also still have addiction stuff, like whether it's food or shopping, like it's whack them all for me, man. If shit comes up still, but I haven't picked up a drink in eight years. How do you keep an eye on the other shit? meaning it is does your wife jenny does she go like yeah are you are you guys pretty engaged with

each other yeah sometimes sometimes sometimes that's what it is um sometimes it's a personal sort of check-in sometimes it's you know i need to go to more meetings because it's again it's a way of thinking less than like i'm i need to go so i don't pick up a drink initially it was i needed to go so i wouldn't pick up pick up a drink i just needed to get through each day without drinking or drugging. Now, I'm not as worried about drinking or drugging. I'm worried about, you know, just my, my alcoholic mind leading me down paths, making me say things or do things like online shopping that are not healthy for me necessarily. Dumbest thing you've ever bought online. Huh. I mean, all of it's dumb. Yeah, yeah, all of it. The sheer quantity of what I bought is

is just dumb under the dumb umbrella. But like the stupidest, I don't know, it was definitely on Instagram. I'm a sucker for the Instagram ads. I bought pants on Instagram. I have multiple pants on Instagram, and I like half of them. That's high.

Yeah. I bought pants with like a wide racing stripe on the side. They weren't the worst pants, but again, then once they know you like pants, then it's over. It's over. Google thinks I'm looking. looking for flat shoes for like barefoot sneakers for some reason i don't have the hard to tell

it hopefully this will get it out of my yeah hopefully hopefully hopefully it's listening so it's it's and then do you worry about well you mentioned complacency about so like you have you have a you have a moderately steady income of residuals sure sure right but yeah but like but like Like, do you worry about, what do you worry about? Yeah, I mean, it's weird, honestly. Like, sometimes. For the first time, be honest with me. Okay, fine.

It's been an hour and 40 minutes, Neil. And I was hoping to get through it without having to be honest. Sure, you don't want to end now. Go on. Go on. I, yeah, I have like a weird, I'm able to, on one hand, say, you know, I'm really lucky, thank God, I'm okay, I'm fine, I don't need to worry. And then, of course, there's a part of me that's like, ooh, a lot more has gone out than has come in.

And that's a problem, you know, I've got to move this around and do this. And maybe this account had was, I was hoping to keep that there, but I maybe I'll shuffle it over here. And, you know, you start doing all that shit. And it's like, oh, is it, you know, it'd be nice to just have another check come in like I used to have. Because also there's a part of, like, you go, oh, that probably was, I've probably not necessarily. You know, the great thing about our industry is that the possibility continues to exist, right? It's the wonderful thing about our industry. It's the wonderful thing.

It could always change. And it could change. And it probably will. Hopefully will. Probably will. But, you know, it's also, I think, maybe healthy to a point to just assume. I've made my last dollar. That's how I think of it.

Exactly, that I made my last dollar. And so when you think about it in those terms and there's more going out than coming in, you can help, but, you know, you go, huh, okay, what how, what's the real here, you know, like how much would I like to continue to have to pass on or to save or to save for this? How much am I willing to spend now? How much of it is about enjoying my life now? And, you know, how much do I want my kid? Maybe I don't want my kids to have that.

much or what's the recipe what is the recipe what is the fucking recipe is right and like i've never made a big purchase without going oh my god fuck like i've never been like yeah fuck it i've never done that even peak oh five even fucking peak i've never gone i mean maybe like interestingly because it's arguably the biggest purchases i've ever made but like real estate, I've maybe depending on when I did it and where the house was or the piece of real estate was, because you go, oh, it's an investment in and of itself, right? But like, you know, other big purchases that you go, I might not ever get this money back. You know, I've never gone, okay, it's fine. I have it. Never, ever, ever, ever. I was going, oh, my God, is this fucking

stupid? Like, I vacillated. I've worked myself up to a fucking, yeah. So, which I think is good. Yeah. You know, I think it's good. Oh, your alert. I'm alert. And so... Tell me about your... Oh, complacency, though.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I do think in sobriety, another thing that's happened for me is I've become more proactive. I've become more willing to go, oh, I shouldn't just sit on my ass, like, also because I took out a major activity that allowed me to sit on my ass and took up time. Three up eight hours a day. You know, at a minimum. I now have more time. I have more energy.

Where do I put this alcoholic energy or this ADD, whatever it is that I have this divergency in my head that made me want to drink? I can put it towards something else. And so I've been able to be less complacent. I've been able to be more proactive. And I've been able to like overcome fear a little bit more. Like I've always been afraid of doing things. I was afraid to take steps to direct, even though I've always wanted to do it, you know?

And I was able, I directed last year for the first time. And it was, I was so fucking afraid of doing it. And if I had stayed drinking, there was no way I would have done it. There was no way. First, because of just focus and sort of, you know, I think being present for it. But also, I think I just would have stayed in my fears, you know? Alcohol and drugs allowed me to just stay in. my fears and not have to address why I'm afraid of shit or you know or yeah so really interesting

tell me about is it no it is I'm interested that the idea that that it's a bit like when you quit the internet how much free time you have and then what do I do with time or when you quit something and then there's a hole and then it it the whole in your schedule creates character maybe pluses that you didn't need it's a hole in your brain though right like it's that you just clear space in your head like you take the phone away which by the way that's an addiction yeah major um you're taking that away and you're clearing space for it so you know do you fill it with more destructive shit or do you go oh this is an opportunity to fill it with positive shit spirituality yeah talk to me you were you said you were an atheist and then yeah I was a big like

Well, you know, let's go back to, you know, the kid that's doing 48 Hail Mary is in active contritions and our father's in his bed before he goes to sleep at night. You know, I grew up in a sort of Catholic. Penal colony. A Catholic penal colony, basically. Colony, yes, yes. Essentially. Yeah, it's crazy. That's kind of what it is.

That's kind of what it is, man. God punishes. and so yeah it was like a fear of god it was not a benevolent god um you you know if you did this this would happen to you and that just and on top of my oCD where i already thought that and so um but my parents were in and out of it you know like it all felt very hypocritical to me they were christmas catholics or they would go for stretches you know they'd go one day one year to christmas mass and then they'd be like they'd get super into it again right they'd be like oh let's go we're going to church every Sunday and you're like really like you didn't go to church for eight

years and now you went for Christmas Mass and you're like newly invigorated and then it would die out and Peter out again right so I don't know but I always thought it was so hypocritical and this is even before all of the abuse scandal like became real public knowledge you know but it was it all just felt very hypocritical to me and but I kind of abided by it when I needed to um and feared God even though I didn't really want to believe in God because just in case, you know, it was always a, it was always a just in case kind of thing, like, well, if there is a God, I should be, I better, and then he obviously punishes, I better be fucking on the straight and narrow, you know, I better do this correctly, whatever this was. But then when I, you know, sort of came out under my, you know, parents' thumb, if you will, and moved out to L.A., became independent and successful and financially independent and all the things, and started reading a lot more, you know, I got into Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris. And I was like, yeah, what? This is great.

Yeah, right. They would talk about this insane, stupid, like, really, this is your guy. And I'd be like, yeah, that's it. exactly that's not fucking yeah this is absolutely insane I listened to the audio of God is not great

on my drive moving from New York to LA it's like perfect perfect perfect yep God is not great was a Bible for me and yeah and so I was like

yeah of course I'm an atheist like I'm a smart person I'm a smart I'm a smart I'm cool I party and I'm smart and I'm smart so I am an atheist and then you know

fast forward into sobriety where, you know, they start talking God in Alcoholics Anonymous. And, you know, even though people would say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, when I first came in here, God, I was an atheist and God was not part of it, but now I see God as this. Even though people were, you know, using themselves as examples of, oh, I was you, Jason. but but you know here's where I'm at now I would still be like you're an idiot now what do you mean you actually you're an idiot now because I'm still smart I will remain smart even if I stay in this program of idiots and I will not be believing in God so if you need me to do that except that there's this other power it's going to be a problem and guess what for four years it was a problem yeah and I kept relapsing and you know in

continuing my exploration of the idea of God and sort of getting and and and gradually shedding this notion that I had as a kid of this fucking guy with a gray beard on a cloud and who will strike you and punish those that don't abide as I gradually shed that and came to understand God being more of an idea and less of a of a person this deity yeah this thing that can make decisions and is all knowing and more of an idea of there being something outside of myself you know I realized my thing I started to to realize when I became sober was that when I was drinking and when I was an atheist I actually thought I was God in a way like I could control my life I was the one making I was omnipotent and omniscient and

And I could do all of these things and I could control. And it became clear that I could do no such thing. And I'm learning that in sobriety. And so giving it over it being, you know, all of that shit, all of my inability to accept, giving over all of my control to something else that's outside of me. A power greater than myself has been helpful for me. meditation you know has been a tool that I don't use enough of but nobody does nobody does but when I do use it it's it's helpful and so to me it's this idea of like and it kind of I see it as an

opportunity you know to let myself off the hook right you know I use my god or whatever it is to say, you know what, I don't have the answer right now, but I'll be, it'll come to me through this other thing. Or, you know, I, yeah, I can't, I, I'm not in control of this situation. It's out of my hands. It's in the hands of this power that's outside of me. I can't fucking control it. So I wash my hands of it and let's see what happens. And always what happens is, you know, something positive. The right thing. The right thing. When I try to do it and control it, the wrong thing happens. Yeah. Nine, nine to ten times. Sure. And so that's what my version of spirituality has become, a faith in the idea that I am no longer able to control my life. I am

not the God of my life. You take responsibility for action. You try to do the right thing. Try to take responsibility. Have ethics, have ideals, make decisions, but results are not of your business. Exactly, exactly. Get out of the results business. Well, Jason, I'm in the results business. And this has been one wildly successful show. This is a fucking home run of a podcast.

Jason Biggs, the inimitable Jason Biggs. Do you get it? It was a callback for the beginning. I get it. I get it. Thanks, Neil.