Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Joe List

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Joe List (Fourth of July, 'Enough for Everybody,' + more specials, 'The Standups' on Netflix) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 1:12 Netflix Specials 3:30 Marriage 4:55 OCD 15:03 Sponsor: Tushy 16:36 Sponsor: Mando 18:08 GAD 23:00 Mental Health Improvements 25:45 Family & Raising Kids 29:40 Fear of death 37:40 Panic Attacks & Drinking 40:50 Guidance 44:50 Learned Behavior 48:00 Lack of Confidence 51:56 Sponsor: BetterHelp 53:31 Sponsor: Hims 55:27 Sponsor: The Perfect Jean 56:54 Alcoholism   1:03:23 Herpes 1:09:14 Tinnitus  1:11:30 Hypochondria 1:13:00 Dying ---------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe to Joe List:  @JoeListComedy   Watch Joe List: Enough for Everybody Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: Visit https://www.hellotushy.com/NEAL for 10% off your entire order. Visit https://www.shopmando.com & use promo code NEAL for $5 off your Mando Starter Pack This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Visit https://www.hims.com/NEAL to start your free online visit.  F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code [NEAL15] at theperfectjean.nyc/[NEAL15] #theperfectjeanpod  Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, before you watch this thing, hit subscribe, would you? Quit it with the, what is it? Hold on, let me look it up. This is going to be worth it. Quit it with the avoidant attachment style. Just hit it. Don't you want me to feel good? Subscribe.

Hi guys, Blocks podcast, Neil Brennan. Guest today is a great comic who's got three Netflix, not Netflix, nope. He's got, sorry, sorry. I'm trying. He's got three Netflix specials on YouTube, and he's had some hit tonight show appearances. I'm making fun of him because we talked about whatever. I'm not making fun of him. I'm making fun of the whole idea of show business now.

Here's some good sleep advice if you have trouble sleeping. Count backwards from 500. I don't know if you ever heard that. That focuses you on something, so you're not going crazy, but it's boring enough that you'll trouble sleeping. Count backwards from 500. I don't know if you ever heard that. That focuses you on something, so you're not going crazy, but it's boring enough that you'll fall asleep. It works if it works. If it doesn't work, it's like a countdown to homicidal breakdown.

You start counting, you get into the 20s, you're like, I don't think this is gonna work out for me, you know? Very unlikely you're gonna be like, three, two, one. Oh my God, I'm out. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Joe List, ladies and gentlemen. Joe List, a fucking great comic and he's here to talk with us today. Yeah, thanks very much. I do have a half hour on Netflix. I did get that. Oh, great. And then they never did nothing else.

They ghosted you? I really thought it was going to be something. Did you do, was it especially good, your half hour? I thought it was pretty good. I did season two of The Stand-Ups, which season one is like- Was it the Bargazze year? It's where Bargazze, yeah, exactly, I was about to mention that. Known as the Bargazze year?

Yeah, and he got this, I've told this story before, but like he got the first spot on there, and he just blew up. I mean, he was doing very well before and then he called me and was like, whatever you do, fight for the first spot because that's what everyone watches. And then we fought for it and I got it. And I was like, this is great, dude, here we go.

And Nate was like, just buy a house now. Like you got a, you know, for the down payment. And I was like, here we go. And yeah, season two, just nobody, nobody, nobody watched. Showbiz, yeah, season two, just nobody, nobody, nobody watched. Showbiz. Yeah. No, none of us blew up.

I have a, my three specials and then I have a half hour on the comedians of the world, which I was in the first slot. Yeah. In America and I, more people watched it than my, than three mics, but like, it just didn't. I don't, whatever you think is gonna happen, it never happens twice the same way.

Right, no, my whole career has been things that I think are gonna blow up. Like I did last comic standing. Please welcome Joe Lipp. And then I got edited off, and then I did it again and made it to the finals. I got in the day, I was confiding in him, I was like, man, I'm really self-conscious about my teeth.

Then he looked at him and he was like, dude, all you need is some crest whitening strips. I was like thanks man I'm actually self-conscious that they're crooked but... What the hell let's throw yellow in there. Look we're not cutting you this time. I was like like, here we go. But nobody watched that season. And I did Letterman. I thought that was going to be something. Great job, Joe.

Thank you very much. Good to have you with us. Thank you for being here. Rogan, everyone was like, Rogan is the thing. This is the one. And then I have known in some circles as like the worst Rogan in history. In some circles.

By that he means the comments. Yes, exactly. The things that he means the, the, uh, the comments. Yes, exactly. Um, the things that surprised me about you is I, I don't know why you being married surprises me whenever I watched her stand up and you're like, I'm married. I was like, I never pitched. I don't know. It's I don't know why.

Is it the looks, the teeth, the forehead? Go on. We'll get there. That's what it is. The jacket. Uh, no, I don't know. That's what it is, the jacket. No, I don't know, I don't know why. Because it's not like you're too anything for marriage,

it just seems like you would have been against it somehow. I think, feel like most comics are constitutionally against marriage in some ways. No, I'm a romantic, I love marriage. My wife's the best, I love my wife. I'm a I love I love women I have a wife who's a woman and I have a friend who's a woman. I'm an ally, you know, I Like the idea to me. It's it's like it's like Forrest Gump when he invests in Apple and he says So then I got a call from him saying we don't have to worry about money no more and I said

That's good One less thing. I watched that movie a lot of times. Great. He said, great, one less thing. That's how I feel. You like, you get a wife and you're like, perfect. Done. Great. I'm with you, you're with me.

You ignore me, I'll ignore you. Yeah, yeah, we don't have to worry about it. See you at the hospital in 40 years. You wanna fuck? It's just, we're together. All right, great. I could do more. We have enough. The good news is we have enough blocks here

for a full, a great full episode. Okay, great. Let's just get right into it. A lot of people all do some grab ass up front. No, not you. Great. OCD. Yes.

Hit me. I got OCD. Well, you'll not like, yeah, I have a bunch of, I have OCD like manifests in different ways my wife does a bit about this She's a comedian also OCD which is weird cuz his dick is a mess About how like I'm not like I don't clean everything I have no germ thing Yeah, and people think that are you doing pull-ups likeand? I have to do 30 pull ups on a scaffolding.

Fuck, that's funny. I did them earlier. No, no, no pull ups. I mean I do a lot of push ups though. I do feel like I- Do you really? Yeah, I'll be watching TV or something like that and be like, you're a piece of shit,

go do some push ups and stuff. I'm always moving around, I can't sit still. Do you have the watch that tells you to do it or you just do it? No, no, no watch. Cause I got the watch that does, that tells you to do it or you just do it? No, no, no watch. Cause I got the watch that's like, you got to move and then I do, I do, uh, apparently 15 squats are as good as running for an hour or something. Really?

One of these new stats where they said standing is, is the, how sitting is like smoking and now, and then they, and then they said, you got to stand. And then the new stat a couple of weeks ago was like, standing's no good. Like there's just a constant stream of like, what are you doing? Don't know. Fuck you. Don't do that.

No, it's too much. My whole algorithm is like, if you eat a banana a day, you'll never die. Oh shit, I gotta get a banana stat. I do a lot of squats, but yeah, my OCD is like, I have a lot of ticks. Like I'll start like talking one-on-one like this. After a while, I'll start blinking like this. And it's really frustrating.

What does it mean when you blink like that? It gets worse if I'm tired or if I'm stressed. And I spend a lot of time thinking about it consciously. I'm like, don't, don't blink. They're going to see you blinking, you psycho. When I, my first TV spot I did was live at Gotham on Comedy Central. Uh huh. Oh wait, another thing that I thought like, there it is. Yep. There it was. Just way back. you psycho. My first TV spot I did was live at Gotham on Comedy Central in 2008. Another thing

that I thought like, there it is. There it was. Just way back. Hello, lawyer, I gotta get a divorce. It's gonna be so much pussy coming through. I was like, this is gonna be huge. Forget about it. But anyways, yeah, I'm like, if you watch that set, I'm like blinking the whole time. I'm doing this weird thing. It's really horrible. And I'm also, you can't see, but I'm flexing my left arm constantly when I'm particularly stressed or nervous or anxious. Sometimes it just does it.

And now my elbow's all like fucked up. So I have these like compulsive area, compulsive-tory? I'm not as smart as I look. Compulsive ticks that are always happening all the time. And then I have to get, I get Emperor's Clouds tea from Starbucks and I can't oversteep. I have to take the tea out.

What happens if you oversteep, you gotta throw it away. I throw it away and get a new one. Why, it doesn't taste right? Or it's just like, it's unclean or one of those things. No, I just feel like it's over, it's oversteeped and then tastes weird and it's too caffeinated. It's like a real weird thing I have like that.

I eat like the same six meals every day. Not six meals a day, six meals in general, totally. I don't, you know what? I have no, I don't. Not that crazy. I'm like, I'm not mad at that. I appreciate that. Like I don't, I eat salad pretty much every day for lunch.

Is that compulsive? I don't know, I just started eating salad in 1999 and was like, let me, I'll just, this is better than anything else I can eat. That's how I feel. It's like, it works. I like this. I like it. I like this, it's easy.

I'm sorry, sorry, Earth, I like this. That's how I feel. I go, that tastes good, I like it, it's easy, and I get stuck in the same kind of thing, sort of, and doing that thing. And I have weird tics. I've gotten much, much better with all these things, all these blocks, but sometimes too,

if I think about something like dying or somebody dying, I have to like, this is like really, it's like, I never even talked about this, but like when I'm like driving, if I think about crashing, there's like the old thing like knock on wood, but there's no wood. So I would like, somehow this started when I was a kid, I would knock on my head as like a joke. It's like an old joke.

Like, ah, knock on wood. I got a wooden head. Yeah, I'm stupid. Yep. And then I would knock on like my, my crotch like, oh, knock on wood. I got a wooden helm. Yeah, I'm stupid, yep. And then I would just knock on like my crotch, like, hey, wood, boner. I love it. And then I would do the dashboard just because

people would do this. So often if I'm driving, I'll do these three. And you've had two crashes as a result of all of this. Two things in a row, yeah. But I'll do that and then I'll try to quietly do it because I'm like embarrassed by it. So I don't want anyone to to see same with the blinking Damn, that's great. Yeah, it's really it's it's

And what I the thing I'm always curious about is what happens if you don't because I was thinking about the food thing Like if I'm on the road and I and like a lot of tough place most places on the road. They don't have salad Right where they have sell that's just got eggs and ham and all kinds of garbage on it. Yeah. And it's not, I don't get like crazy or, but I just, it's worse. Is there a craziness that would ensue if you didn't knock on wood and. Now I can kind of sort of breathe through it or talk to myself and be like, that's really crazy. It doesn't matter if you do that. I've gotten a lot better, but it would just make me feel

really uncomfortable. And I'll have things where I'm like, I have to go step on this crack or this spot. Like if it's like a tiled floor, sometimes like this is kind of like where it's squares. I have to step perfectly in the middle of the four corners meeting. If you don't, what happens? I just feel fucked up, so sometimes I'll go back and do it or it causes my other tics to be worse or I think like I'm gonna, something bad's gonna happen if I don't do that.

Has anything bad happened? What do you think, what's happened in your life that falls into that category? I don't know. Other than the Netflix not calling you. Yeah, I haven't gotten a Netflix hour, it's crazy. By the way, I have another special in the can that I think this could be the one.

This is going. Call it this is the one. Straight to the top, baby. Yeah, I don't know. Nothing horrible has happened. I'm very fortunate. Nothing horrible has happened in my life. I actually I mean, nothing horrible has happened in my life. I actually have very little death

and I've been quite successful. Yeah, I always think about that where old people go like, when I look back, if they ask a 50 year old what they think of pictures of when they were 30, they're like, I was so good looking and I was so convinced I was ugly. Right. Like this is the youngest wherever gonna be,

this is probably the best looking wherever gonna be, this is the healthiest like, but it's so hard to appreciate. I tell my wife that all the time because she's worried about being old and I'm like you're gonna actually be old at some point. Yeah. She's 69.

So folks. Knock on the thing. But no, I was just talking to my buddy. My best friend was talking about this and he's like overweight now. And he's like, I remember thinking I was overweight in 2010 and I hated myself. And looking back, I should have just enjoyed myself. Yep. And he said the same thing.

He's like, I should just be happy with the weight I'm at now. Yeah. It's only going to get worse. I'll be 400 pounds in 10 years. So yeah, I mean, and these are things that have helped me like get better where I'm like, oh, I'm doing actually quite well and someday I will be dead. And I do a lot of those meditations and stuff like that. Where you meditate over corpses like the monks do?

I do like walking in cemeteries when I'm on the road and think I have this of like, everybody in here would kill the Switch places with me. Which is quite helpful. Yeah, well, it doesn't make any sense. It's not like a real, it's not even like I actually think something bad will happen. It's a literal compulsion of like, I have to go do that now. I gotta go, ah. And I have this like, I feel like I have to piss before I go to bed. And so I don't even have to go. Like I went 20 minutes ago,

but I'll stand over the, I I literally stand over the toilet for like screaming your dick 10 minutes and I squish I put it on my hand like I'm trying to smash it up but yeah it's like things like that it's all like kind of little things like that but I don't have the hand washing and stuff and things do bother me if they're like a skew and I like the volume on an even number stuff like that that just makes my fucking volume yeah the volume on an even number, stuff like that. That just makes my fucking. The volume. Yeah.

Interesting. I like an even number. If you're in a hotel room, if you can't see that number, if it's just volume and one of those things where you don't see that thing, is there a, do you have to settle on a specific sound or do you go like this feels even? Yeah, I think I go by feel.

I'm like, that's about right. That feels ish. That's fucking. No, it's just the digit number thing. I don't know. It's, yeah, it's funky. I got some fucking. Are you paying a price for it?

Meaning, is it like hurting your life? Or is it just kind of like, it's stupid? I have moments where it really bothers me. I mean, like the main thing now that drives me crazy is the blinking and the flexing it. Because I'll literally start to have my fucking elbow hurts because I'm constantly doing that. Or with the blinking, I just cannot stop,

particularly when I'm tired or late or stressed. And I'll wait for the person I'm talking to to look away and be like, ah. And I feel like it's going to clear my head and it keeps happening. What I'm driving to, driving stresses me out because I feel like I could fucking die at any second. You could. Yeah, yeah, it's quite dangerous.

That's the great thing about driving, incredibly dangerous. 30,000 people a year die, 35,000. It's like the most underratedly dangerous thing. Like all these sharks are coming north with climate change and everything, and I'm a big ocean I love to swim and people are like, oh you're crazy and I'm like It's like I don't know what the numbers like 800 times more likely to die in a car wreck than a shark who who's Getting attacked by sure. I mean, I mean I've never known I've you known anyone

No, no, no one who's seen a shark that could attack them? No. It's just a phobia. Yeah. It's not anything. Without jaws, you wouldn't even think about it. I mean, it happens more now though, but I think that's also, It's happened like,

It's a lot of wetsuits, I think too, cause they're all black, they look like seals. A lot of these wetsuits, I think they're asking for it. You're blaming the victim. Exactly. What was he wearing? Guys, what do you know me for,

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S-H-O-P-M-A-N-T-O.com. Promo code Neil. Do I, it's a great, it's just a great deodorant. It's a great deodorant, bye. General anxiety, GAD, general anxiety disorder. Old Gaderoo, yeah. Yeah. Since when?

Probably since I was a kid. I mean, you know, I grew up, I'm 42, so like in the 80s and 90s, it just wasn't, I know it's like a cliche, but there just wasn't really a thing of like, here's what you have. And I've always been like a very nervous guy. My parents are horrible anxiety,

which now when I hang out, now that I'm more aware and conscious of things, I hang out with my family and I'm like, oh, I'm like a fucking miracle. On the low end. Yeah, yeah. Like my mother won't go over bridges, she doesn't like crowds. How would she explain explain it because that was the other thing is no, because we didn't know what it

was, but you would just, you would looking back and go, Oh, they were just anxious. There are they of anxiety. It wasn't, it was just like, I don't like it. Right. Yeah. No, it's exactly. And I never even heard the word anxious or anything like that. It was like nervous or scared, or you were like a pussy. Yeah. You were like a wuss or a wimp where you needed to grow up. Your mother was a known pussy in the house. Yeah, she was a big pussy and a cunt, ironically. Just kidding.

Hey, hey, hey. You might hear this. She's very sweet. Oh. Yeah, so I mean, when I was a kid, I was always very, very nervous. I think a lot of it goes back to I didn't go to preschool. I have no idea why my parents don't explain why I Went to no preschool, which I can't even find another person that didn't go to preschool

I may not have gone to preschool was kindergarten preschool kindergarten is kindergarten That's when you're five like everyone had gone to preschool. I have some good news for you. Never went to preschool All right. Three Netflix specials. We should be friends. In a half hour. We should be friends. We are now.

All right. Yeah, I mean, I just went and everybody had known each other and my family also, they were always together. My mother has four siblings and the extended family, so we were always socializing together, but never, my family's never made were always socializing together, but never, my family's never made friends with like people in the town or like, Oh, let's go talk to this person. Yeah. Yeah.

They're like kind of, they're nervous people. No play dates. No, no, none of that. So when I went to school and my mother was leaving, I had never just been left anywhere before. And then everybody, I remember walking in and maybe we were late a little bit and everybody was talking and it was that sound of everyone talking. And I remember just being like, I don't.

I don't think I had an identical experience. My, I remember it and I remember thinking, I can't believe how big these people's personalities are. Right. I couldn't believe it. One guy was talking about Battlestar Galactica. Another guy was talking about Star Wars. And I think somebody else was talking

about Star Trek and I was like, I haven't seen any of this. Yeah, yeah. And they all had seemed to have fully formed personas. Yeah, it's fucked up. And it was like, I don't even see it as that, I'm not a pussy like you, so I don't see this dramatic. No, so, no, I don't remember it. It was, it didn't give me anxiety, but I remember it being like very memorable.

Yeah, no, I was like crying. I remember like sobbing and being like, don't leave me. This is crazy. It just felt insane for somebody to leave me with these people that I didn't know. Yeah, it is very strange. Yeah, it was, it was creepy to me. to leave me with these people that I didn't know. I didn't understand it. It is very strange. Yeah, it was creepy to me. And of course, I got good at making friends.

I've always been very good at making friends, but still nervous around strangers sometimes, unless I have people I already know around me. Do you like parties? I do like parties. I like, well, it depends on the party. I like throwing my own party. I like parties with comedians or people I know like parties. I like, well it depends on the party. I like throwing my own party.

I like parties with comedians or people I know. Yeah. You do like throwing a party. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, more of a hang. Parties, it depends on what you mean by party, but like everyone hanging out, you know, bullshitting, telling comedy stories

or stories and stuff and talking about things. So podcasts. Yeah, yeah, I like podcasts. Or we're watching the game or whatever. But like a party, like when I go to like, you know, Just For Laughs and it's like we're having a rap party, everyone's dressed and standing with drinks and you're talking. That stuff makes me crazy. Like anxious or?

Yeah, anxious. Like I can't wait for this. I like being with people I'm already connected with. I feel like that lost kid. I need someone to like vouch for me. Like, oh yeah, dude, he's, see? He likes me. If it's just me and anyone that's,

seems to be like businessy and not a comedian, I just feel like I'm never gonna. This is never gonna work. They're never gonna, I felt that with women too. I'm like, if they see me do comedy, I could do it. But if not, they're just gonna be like, wow, this guy sucks, I'll just get a different. I'm like, if they see me do comedy, I could do it. But if not, they're just going to be like, wow, this guy sucks. I'll just get a different one.

Yeah. Why would I put up with this? Yeah, exactly. Which, oh boy. Okay. And how does the anxiety, do you take anything? I just started taking Zoloft, I get for the first time in a long time, like maybe like eight months ago. A very small dosage because I would go to these really dark places where I'm like, life is fucking meaningless and we're gonna die. That's crazy and like really get stuck on.

And you think it was a manifestation of anxiety? Yeah, that and the OCD too. I got really frustrated. I was trying to get rid of these ticks, which it hasn't worked for that. But I was on Paxil years ago for a while and eventually I got off of that because I didn't want to be on it anymore. And I came a really long way with all this with meditation and sobriety and exercise and all that and therapy. And then I still would go into these like weird places where I'm like, I want to fucking kill myself and I'm depressed and just briefly, but more anxiety. It was more like I'd get sad that I was anxious.

If that makes sense. Yeah. I'm not clinically depressed. I talked to a psychiatrist. She's like, you're not diagnosably depressed, but you're anxious and have OCD. It's fucking frustrating. Yeah.

Because if you're, as you said, diet, or you didn't say diet, exercise, meditation, medication. So there was another one. Therapy. Therapy. And so there's two hours a day, or an hour and a half a day. And to still have it, it's like, yo, motherfucker,

I'm doing all the stuff I'm supposed to do. Yeah. How is this still, that it would make you, like, sort of lose it a little bit, I think. Yeah, that's what's frustrating. And, but then I have to like, you know, I gotta compare myself to where I was because we always do that thing of like,

you compare yourself to what you want yourself to be. But then I look back and I'm like, oh, I used to like have daily fucking panic attacks and not be able to do anything or I wouldn't be able to create things because I was too depressed or anxious or whatever. And now I'm quite prolific and successful so I've come a long way yeah I have healthy relationships and all that stuff and now

I have a kid and which is a big it was just a result of getting over a lot of my anxiety and stuff like that is like do you think will live was there a specific the kid was a result of getting healthier meaning did you wait yeah definitely because I always thought, well, a big part of it too is like psychologically because of the way I was raised, the way my family always talked and still does is like, they sort of presented, maybe you can relate to this,

I don't know, but like they- Your family's kind of in the movie made with Louis, right? They're drunks, they're assholes. Honestly, I can't believe I'm in this family. Yeah, yeah, that's basically... It's very... The mother in that movie is much more... I need to talk to you guys.

So talk! Here we are! Insane, like... Narcissistic and controlling than my actual mother. My mother's a sweet person. How did the family take the movie? Well, the thing about my family is they don't really share much feelings. They don't say much. They went, they saw it, they went to the premiere in Boston and then they went and

saw it again. Um, so they seem to like it, but they don't say much. Like I just did town hall and they all came and literally afterwards they don't say great show. That was amazing. We're so proud of you. Yeah. That was awesome.

They just don't say anything. They just so proud of you. Yeah. That was awesome. They just don't say anything. They just come and stand there. Yeah. And they laugh and people are like, oh, they were laughing, but they don't, they don't have it in them to be like, great job. They just don't. Yeah.

And then are you, are you supposed to train them? You know what I mean? Like, what can you do? Cause it's not personal. Yeah, that's what's hard. That's what's difficult about it. And to me, it's like so obvious that if you go to see anybody's show, afterwards you say,

that was awesome. Yeah. I swear. I know, but did you always know that? Like, you know, they still live in, is it Massachusetts? Yeah. Yeah, like they still live in Massachusetts

and they don't know you're their closest showbiz. Right. Yeah, I guess. And I think they just don't, they're not expressive in other ways either. They don't know how to express themselves I think. But yeah, that's what I was gonna say, is like they always, since I was a kid, they were like, they displayed and even said like,

life is fun on the weekends when you're not working, and then you drink, that's like fun. Like raising kids is hard and like my mother would always say like, I did your laundry, I did this, I did that. And so to me, my whole life, having a kid ruins your life. That's what was presented to me. And no one in my family was ever like, oh my God, having the best, we had the best time with you guys. My parents to this day, my wife points this out, are never like, we took you guys to Maine and we laughed our ass. That was so fun.

I miss you being a kid. There's no photos of me as a child around. There's no stories of me as a kid. Well, then later you meet some people that are like, oh, it was awesome. When you were five, you used to wear my shoes and we'd laugh. Here's the video, let's put the video. Yeah.

And so it was very much in my head that like having a kid ruins your life, it sucks. And then, um, then occasionally you go on vacation and that's fun. And did you, I sort of sidewided you, but did you, you didn't want to have kids, you didn't want to, you think for that reason. Yeah, I just felt like too much responsibility. But then the therapy and medication and meditation,

that all sort of got you more inclined to do it? Yeah. My therapist was like, it's like the greatest joy in the world. People would always tell me you'd be a great dad, because I always loved kids and like hanging out with kids. I just didn't want the responsibility. And then my therapist was sort of like, it's like wonderful. He's like, it's the greatest experience in the world. There's nothing that compares to it. And I was like, no, that sounds

cool. You've done a Rogan? And yeah, so I was like, oh, that's something. And then my friend, Dave Walsh, who's a committee. Did you ever know the Walsh brothers in LA? Yeah. So David, he talked about it and he said, like, you know, I have, my wife and I have so many inside jokes together that we don't even try to explain to anybody else. Cause nobody could get this experience we have with our kids. And it's, it's not even worth trying to tell people the story cause it's so beautiful. And it just made me like emotional. I was like, Oh, I've never heard this perspective on having kids.

And, um, and it is quite wonderful. And I've also always had like a, and it's, it's one of my blocks, but like a crippling fear of the end of the world and death, like when I was younger, like bird flu and climate change and nuclear war, all these things really. Thank God those are gone. Yeah, no worries now. Talk about how good we used to have it. We nipped those in the bud.

But yeah, so I always felt like I was gonna die at 27 or 28 or the world would end. That was like a big fear, the whole fucking world is gonna end, which as we're speaking, it's like things are heightening in Russia in Russia China but I think we'll be okay. Maybe I mean okay hypothetically maybe we're not. Right well that's that that's the thing is like I've come through therapy and and a lot of meditation Eastern philosophy is like I can't control any of that yeah and that's quite helpful but that I mean that's what OCD is like for a long time I thought I could control that there

won't be nuclear war if I tap on my dick and put my left shoe on first, which I still do. My whole life, I have to put my left shoe on first. You know what's funny is like even people that could control, like Kissinger couldn't control it. He actually, how he did his shoes made a difference and it still didn't make a difference. I guess we haven't had a nuclear war, so.

Yeah, hopefully we will. But the head of Exxon doesn't care about his tie and he's just not flexing. Right, right. That's a good point. Well, that's the thing too. I used to get, I would ask everybody, part of my OCD, and I was just annoying, but like I would ask everybody in the room, like you think we'll live? We'll probably survive, right?

And then strangers, like I would just meet people and be like, do you think we'll dive like a nuclear holocaust? And people were like, what? Well, I don't think that that's indicative of much, meaning I understand what you mean by like it's remote, but here's what I want to say. What if we, what if the world, I'll put you with your wife and kid. Is it a boy or girl? Boy. For now. For now. For now we're all doing the same bed.

Let's say you're with your wife and son and the world was ending. What would you- You think it's gonna end? I don't know. What would you feel, do you think? Well now, also I also had this thing for a long time that I was gonna get ripped off. I didn't get enough, I felt like I was owed a full life

and being 85 and I wanted to be on a rocking chair with a cigar. By the way, if you live till 10 in 2024, you've lived more life than most anyone in human history if they lived to 80. Right. You just experience more shit and more gadgets and more. Well, that's part of it now. I feel like I'm like, all right, I've been around, I've been to like 40 countries and I've been on TV and I've had some success and I have a child.

And by the way, didn't really make a difference. No, not to me. Didn't make a difference to you. I liked it. So you believe that all the stuff you did actually was like, you got a lot from it. Yeah, now I feel like, okay, well now I've lived more life than most and I've had to experience a lot of the things. Cause I think when I was, you know, 25, I feel like, okay, well now I've lived more life than most and I've got to experience a lot of the things

Because I think when I was, you know, 25 I was like I'm gonna die before I get to Ireland. This is Or whatever. Yeah So now I feel like much more Satisfied with my life. Don't give I went to Ireland. I want to keep living and everything. Yeah, but Yeah, the more the more you do the more you feel like okay I've gotten a lot out of life. Because that was another thing that fucked with me a lot is everyone said like live life to your fullest. You gotta live life to the fullest. And your kid like puts a lot of pressure on you

because I still have that and that's part of like my OCD when I'm watching movie I'm like wait should I be watching a movie or should I be reading a book? Don't play video games. Go outside. Yeah should I be swimming right now? Should I be running? Should I be fucking watching basketball or should I be reading a book? Don't play video games, go outside. Yeah, should I be swimming right now? Should I be running? Should I be fucking watching basketball or hockey? I wonder if people when books came out, if they were reading and they were like, should I be outside?

I think so, yeah. Well, that was a big thing too. Like when the printing press came out, people were like, we're fucked. This is gonna be a problem. Bad news is gonna spread or false news. Which it did for like 50 years apparently. Oh, is that right?

Yeah, it was actually bad in terms of misinformation. Right. But yeah, no, I'm wondering, that thing of what am I supposed to be doing? That's a big part of my mental struggles is I have this thought that somewhere there's a God with a spreadsheet of exactly what I'm supposed to be doing and I'm doing the wrong thing

No matter what I'm doing. I think I should be doing something else for this podcast. This feels like Come to the right place. This is kismet right here. This is where I need to be But no no matter like when I'm when I'm working out I'm like I should be reading and when I'm reading I'm like I should be watching a film and when I'm watching a film I should make I should be watching sports or when I'm swimming I should be Taking flying lessons or whatever the fuck, whatever it is. That describes me completely.

Yeah. Do you think that that's a comedian's general disposition? Because I feel like it describes a lot of people we know. And do you think that that's what we provide to the world? Meaning like, we exist there pretty much all the time and people can kind of come and visit it. Right. Like that level of neuroses of like, Bargazzi's good at like explaining

what it's like to how dumb our brains are. So one part of your brain is smart and the other part is dumb. You can trick your own brain. That's how dumb the dumb part is. Right. Like, and like, I should be, and like, people experience that a little bit, whereas we occupy it all the time.

Yeah, I don't know. Cause I mean, some people I hang out with and they're like, they don't have that at all. Like I got a buddy that I'm like, yeah, he's like, oh man, I'm watching such, such episode of Seinfeld today. And I'm like, I can't believe you can just like at two in the afternoon, put on a sign. Like I don't watch anything during the day, even with a kid, I especially don't now.

But I always felt like I need to be doing something. And this is a funny realization too I had was that like, I need to be working. I got to work to make it because everyone else is working so hard. And then I would talk to a comic who's way more successful to me. And they're like, have you watched the entire series of Breaking Bad? And I'm like, when did you do that? Yeah.

And so it's just, and that I think comes from my mother. I'm shocked that Bill Burkham fly helicopters. I'm like, when are you flying helicopters? Yeah, that's what I mean, but people just, I guess they manage their time. Like he has so much material. Right. And like, what?

Yeah, I guess people are able to manage their time better or what do you call that? They write bits quicker or something. Yeah. And by the way, you and I write more bits than almost anybody. Yeah, no. You know what I mean?

Like that's the rub is like, I know you write a lot of bits, I know I write a lot of bits and I still feel behind. Yes, I have a hard time recognizing. Well, cause because you always you can compare to other people, this person's more successful, this person, but no I have that, I mean I just shot my fourth hour in like five years. Yeah. And I made two feature films in that time also, but I still feel like I'm a lazy piece of shit because I feel like those hours and films could have been better

because I didn't put a full effort in it. It was just good enough. You watched TV a couple times? Yeah, exactly. I watched the Seinfeld rerun and so it could have been a lot better. And has the Zoloft helped? Yes, definitely. It's definitely helped because I was so reluctant to be on... Because I hate like, I don't want to be a stat and everyone's on drugs and all these things. What do you mean? Oh, right. And then there's people that'll be like, if you just work out enough or get enough sun or eat this, but after a while I was like, well, I do a lot for my mental health and I've come an extraordinary

distance from being really, really fucked up, but there's still just this little bit left that the medicine how fucked up what's your what was like the when you think about how fucked up you were what's what do you think of panic attacks I have like you know panic disorder too I would have panic attacks like I've had a couple different times in my life where I was having like daily or multiple daily panic attack and sometimes you hear people who say panic attacks in a way that they're like, oh man, I had a panic attack. It's not OCD, but I just like things to look nice.

Right, like a panic attack. When I had panic attacks, I mean like literally on the floor, like shaking like, and couldn't breathe and things were like closing. That would happen like daily. And I really couldn't get anything done. I couldn't write anything or no new material or whatever and for a long time I was self-medicated with alcohol. I was a fucking drunk just like...

All day? No, not every day, all day, but I love day drinking and those times where I would drink in the morning and and I get blackout drunk I mean I've sort of famously shit in a girl's shoe one time and fame Well, I don't say famously but I've talked about it on multiple podcasts But like I mean I fucking defecated a woman's shoe and fell to a table You know and I Cleaned her it up in real life too with a sock. And then I would drive drunk and break shit.

I was a big vandal-y guy. I would take street signs and like- Do you know why you were like that? Was like, was the, without getting too specific, was it all sort of like you liked inducing chaos or what was it, anger? I think I had a lot of anger. I think, well, I think a lot of it too is like the family stuff. I feel like I wasn't getting recognized by my parents or family or love life or whatever.

Or also the frustration of not being who I wanted to be. I wanted to be a filmmaker and a comedian and all these things and I just wasn't able to do it. And so I fucking like hated myself for being in the way of my own success. And I think I would get drunk and be like, and just start breaking things. How long ago was that? Almost like 20 years ago now, which is crazy. I feel like I'm old. But yeah, 2004, five, six were like, those were like when I was really having panic and drink. But I drank till 2012, so.

What do you think of it now? I mean, now I feel grateful to be. Because that thing about my talent isn't formed, developed enough to get what I want. Right. I think that's frustrating and can be animating. I think it can make you sort of work harder. I don't know, I felt like, yeah,

I guess I felt like I was wasting time, which I still feel that way a lot of the times now. And now I look back on like my, as an athlete, as a kid, like I was good at baseball and basketball and then I ran like cross country and I could have been so much better. I just didn't believe in myself or have any confidence. Same with comedy and same with relationships. Like I would, I just, I was like, oh, if I had realized that you wish you could just go back and do it all over again, then you have that feeling of,

of course you can't. Yeah. But I had no one, no, no confidence and no guidance. I think I had a lot of anger that my parents or people weren't properly guiding me and being like, that doesn't matter or you're better than this person, stop comparing yourself. Do you think that guidance is a thing people can expect in life? Because I, sometimes I think that, and I'm like, well, who's gonna guide me?

I mean, even like I've worked with Chappelle a lot, he never guided me. Right, well, a parent, you'd think a parent with Chappelle a lot, he never guided me. Right. Well, a parent, you'd think a parent would help with these things, right? Or coaches or so. I mean, and some of them tried, I guess, and it's hard because sometimes things just don't get through to you. People say things or try to help you.

I don't think you can guide people. Is I honestly, I just think people figure it out or don't. I suppose so. I mean, I guess and I guess I've figured it out to some degree, but I mean a therapist, but I guess just I would have liked someone to go, you know, you could be really, really successful at this if you applied yourself or believed in yourself. I wish that somebody had more been like, you should believe in yourself as much as I do, because you're really, you know,

you could be very successful at this. I don't, have you ever said that to somebody? Well, I have a son now who I'm very supportive of, and I'll be much better at that. But yeah, I think at some degrees, my friend, yeah, I think I have been like that with my wife all the time. And she just shot another special that I produced and I tell her all the time,

I'm like, you're better than you realize. Like, I don't know why you think that you're not this good. I wish you could see yourself the way I do. So I try to do that with people. I think I've helped a lot of people in that way. I do, I kind of like, I'm now thinking of it as kind of unsolicited. Right.

I don't, I don't know what we're supposed to say to people because I'm, I like do, we'll call people or, and then I'm like, what do you, I just, now I think it's just like a form of codependence and I'm, or I'm just a know it all and want to insert myself in shit. And well, I think you can add well, know-it-up,

but to tell someone they have the skills if they just believed in themselves is not necessarily a know-it-up. I think you have to know someone really well to say that. And I don't wanna say, obviously I say it to plenty of people, but even though I said I kinda don't, I don't know. I'm of two minds about it, cause you have to really know somebody to know,

like, hey, you have to know what they think of themselves. Right. And then be like, huh? But don't you think you can pick up on what people think of themselves sometimes by the work that they do or their, in comedy, like their lack of production or writing. I'm like, all those jokes you have that are great, you could do that again. Or I, yes, but that seems on that scene. There are people that seem to be in a trance.

That's hard to break. It's, it would be impossible for me to break their trance because they just like they're limiting beliefs or all that stuff, but they just, uh, yeah. So, but I think you, I think you can try or have to try, because certainly people do have influence on people. I mean, like you see people win Academy Awards and say, my teacher told me I could do anything. I mean, don't you think that's a huge part of a lot of success?

I just don't know. I don't think if somebody doesn't do it, that you're being deprived of it. Do you know what I mean? Because all the people I know that made it are just sociopaths. So I think you just have to hope you're a sociopath. Well, I've had that thought many times too. I'm like, I wish I was successful as this person

or this person. Then other people were like, well, I don't think they have your success on a personal level. And I'm like this, oh, right. Oh, right, right. That's a big part of it. Like I go on vacation with my family.

That's helpful to remember. Yes, yes, yes. Not your parents, but your wife and kid. Yeah, yeah. And I do go with my parents too. Oh, great. They're level people. And so you think that you got,

this is another one of those like determinist kind of Sam Harris arguments of like, is it, did you come out like this or was this done to you? I think a lot of it is, my therapist is a big believer in this and I agree that a lot of it's learned behavior. I mean, you can kind of see like, like a lot of people in comedy that I know,

they come from very successful families. And I don't mean that in a way of like, well, if you're rich, you're going to be rich. What I mean is like, because there's some advantage and having money, I don't think having money necessarily helps you to succeed in comedy or whatever. Because there's some people that are successful and people go, well, their family is this.

It's fucking useless. It's useless. But what I mean is the level of, they grew up in a house where their parents were like, you succeed, you work hard, and then you get a raise, and you get bumped up, and then you get a promotion, and you don't sell yourself short. You deserve more, and they see people that are-

They model behavior. Yes, whereas in my family, it's very blue collar, and you get a job that pays the bills and then once you have whatever job don't rock the boat and just make your small amount of money that allows you to get by and that's kind of how I was raised. Everyone in my family is plumbers and secretaries and firemen. You kind of get this, it's not like you put in your work well but there's not mobility. We're not moving up and fucking demanding of yourself.

So I think that I took a very sort of blue collar, get by approach. Like I was always like, I just wanna make a living doing comedy. And that's what I did. But I didn't have that thing of like, I wanna be on the top. I wanna have a show, a movie and play arenas or whatever,

where some people did. And I think a lot of that's because they grew up in. But you wanted to be a filmmaker. I did. And you want to be a comic. Yes. So what do you think the difference is? You just didn't see it as you didn't blow it out in terms of your dreams? Well I think I didn't have the confidence, I mean I didn't have the confidence to do like one of the things I did that I pursued stand up it felt like the easiest thing to do which sounds funny because I know exactly but it's like I can write something down and go there's no barrier to entry right exactly with a movie I'm like if I could spend months on a script and then it becomes nothing it doesn't even go anywhere comedy just felt like I can

show up at chops lounge and put my name in the thing and talk, you know? And I still feel that way in a lot of ways. So yeah, and even when I did make a movie. Because you still work at Chop's Lounge. Yeah. It's gone now. It's very fancy.

But yeah, I just felt like I can't make a movie. No one's going to let me make a movie. That's crazy. Well, what's funny is like, did you change, you didn't have to buy it at what point did you just go? Okay? Well I have to not think like that or Did you I mean I still struggle with it? I Still feel that way I still am like I just did town hall and I'm like I shouldn't be booked here. That's crazy

That doesn't make sense. That's not who I am and ended up being great And even I made the movie with Louie, but I'm like well Louie made the move like he paid for it and directed it That's crazy. That doesn't make sense. That's not who I am. And ended up being great. And even I made the movie with Louis, but I'm like, well, Louis made the move. Like he paid for it and directed it. I didn't really. Somebody always makes, I mean, somebody always pays for it. Right. That's a good point.

So, and then now I just made another movie. I made a documentary about my friend, Tom Dustin, which is called Portrait of a Comedian. I'd love to send it to you by the way. Great, please do. And even that felt like, well, I'm making a movie, but it's just like a three-person crew documentary about my friend.

That's not hard to do. And I can't even, people really love it. And I can't take it. I understand the discounting, like, well, it's, yeah, but meh, it's just me. And like, I shouldn't, you know, Seinfeld said he's not a comedian. He's a writer. you should just be a writer

You're obviously just a writer who is performing these things you think that with the negative voice that never goes away I don't think right you just have to ignore it. Yeah, I mean, I'm here's the unsolicited advice. You've been looking for ignore yourself Yeah, no, and I've gotten I've gotten better at that. Or don't you think better advice is not ignore your thoughts maybe or take them in, let your thoughts come in but don't serve them tea, as the old saying. But also it's like actually pay closer attention to yourself because then I would realize I'm putting out specials

and making films. Like if I was more focused on what I'm doing. Yeah, it's completely divorced from reality. Right. You did town hall. Yeah. Like that's not, what are you worried about? Like what are you mad at?

What didn't you do? I had got to a point where I was like, what are you mad at? What didn't you do? What it's, you can't, I had a, got to a point where I was like, okay, the voices in my head are losing credibility. Right. They just, it gets further and further from reality where you're like, what are you talking about? Right. Like this is stupid.

Yeah, no, and that's the thing that's really helped me is to realize I'm like, oh, I am doing it. Yeah. I did do the thing. And then I realized I'm like, oh, I've done all the goals that I did set for myself. I just didn't set bigger goals. I've had that as well, where he's like, it's like, be careful what you wish for. You might get it, but it's like, you could have gotten more if you'd wished for more.

But it's also like who thinks, I mean, as much as I say that everybody who succeeds are sociopath, I also think there are plenty of people who succeeded far beyond what they thought. You know, like I don't think Bargazzi thought he was gonna do arenas, even at his drunkest and angriest.

No, I mean, I don't know that he thought, but he was aiming hot. Like he was one of those guys. I remember me, Nate, and Louis Katz were in Kuwait together doing a USO thing. And we were talking, I won't say the comedian, but we were talking about a specific comedian. And I thought this was really interesting was that like, Nate was like, imagine having that career. That would be terrible. And I was like, what are you crazy?

I'm like, I would kill for that career. That's unbelievable. Yeah. And he thought I was insane for like thinking that was a decent career. And it does show like the approach, like that was a person just making a living, doing comedy. I'm like, that guy works at the cellar. Yeah.

Like he's hilarious. Everybody respects him. He makes a living and he's at the cellar. How could that not be success? And Nate was like, if I would shoot myself in the face if I was his age. And we both got to that level of success. I became like, you know, a comic making a decent li- now I'm now making a very nice living, but a pretty good living and working at the cell. I mean, like I did it. And Nate went on to be, it's huge.

Yeah, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, I mean, I don't, I'm not gonna say Nate wasn't ambitious, but I'm saying- I don't know that he thought- I know people, I mean, I don't think it, people didn't do arenas 10 years ago. No, it's crazy.

So that is beyond. No, I remember thinking that way. I way. Nate was like at Bridgestone. He's like, this is a dream come true. And I remember thinking like, when did you dream about doing Bridgestone Arena? That's insane. Yeah. He just wanted Bridgestone to have an arena. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, what are some of your relationship green flags? We often hear about the red flags We should avoid but what if we focus more on looking for green flags and friends and partners? If you're not sure what they look like therapy can help you identify green flags Actively practice them in your relationships and embody the green flag energy yourself

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Probably not an accident. Fuck your khakis and get the perfect gene. .MYC Alcoholism. Yeah. What was the what was the bottom? Well, shitting in a girl's shoe and then fly. I mean that story, I was going to do the Seattle comedy competition which is a month long. I was leaving the next day for a month and I went out and fucking blacked out and was like basically on a date with a girl. I was trying to like kind of hook up with this girl and I

ended up shitting in her shoe and falling through her living room table and pissing on her rug and then missed my flight and had to fly across the country with like shit on my leg. It was really, really bad. And that was like- Do you remember your blackout? I don't remember the shitting in her shoe, but I remember the next morning and stuff. And that was like- When you came to, what did you think was happening?

When I first came to, the first thing that happened was I had to piss so bad. And I was like, I have to, I literally had the thought of like, I got to piss because if I piss, I'm going to piss my pants and that's going to be really embarrassing. And then I was like. You were at the girl's house?

Yes. And nobody was home. It was like 10 in the morning. That's how hard we were like, they were gone. They had gone to work. And I remember like urinating for like eight minutes, it was like one of those pisses and being like, I don't know where anything is.

I kind of remembered going back to their house and I was drinking with Nate that night, ironically. And then I came back into the bedroom that I'd been sleeping in and I saw like footprints of shit and like their living room table had been like Chris Farley and it was all fucking like broken. And I remember having the thought like, that was definitely me.

I had this feeling of like something went wrong and it was, it's me for sure. Yeah. And then there was a shit. Oh, I know this. There was like a shit in there, a sneaker, and there was a big piss stain. And yeah, it was bad.

I mean, I wanted to kill myself. I was like, this is horrible. You're doing a pilot called CSI Blackout. It was. Where it's, where you come to and you have to, you have to, you have to figure out who, who did this and it's always you. That's not bad. No, it's not a bad idea.

It's a good idea. But yeah, it was bad. And I remember, I mean, the really funny thing that happened was I texted the girls and cause it was two girls that lived together and I was like, I'm so sorry. I want to kill myself. This is horrible. And they were like, don't worry. It's fine.

We think it's funny. And I remember thinking like, these girls just fucking party, that's crazy. And then I flew to Seattle, my phone was on like airplane mode. When I landed, it was now nighttime in New York and they were like, oh my God, we had no idea how bad this was.

This is not cool. And I was like, that's more like it. So that was like a bottom, but that night I thought like, well, I'm not going to stop drinking, so I might as well drink tonight. So I kept drinking for like another two years, but after that, I felt like this is truly out of control. That was like, this should be my bottom. Yeah.

It should have been. Like I, I definitely need to quit. You did like the 25th hour, but it was two years. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm on my way out, but. Well, from then on, it was like, let me try to curb the, and I would try to like count drink. And I talked to a friend who happens to be a comedian

and alcoholic in recovery. And he said, well, why don't you try to keep, see if you can keep it to six or less, which is a lot of drinks. Yeah. Like someone say, if you drank six drinks a night, you still know you're an alcoholic. Yeah.

And I was like, OK, six. That's not bad. And then I would write in the calendar, five. I had four tonight. And then I still couldn't do that. I was like, oh, shit. I went to eight tonight. And then I would try to just.

And it was just you couldn't get enough. Yeah, well, you'd go out and it would be like, this person's drinking, you know how it is. I have the night off so I'll drink, or I got a show so I'll drink, and then it's free drinks on the road. Then I was open for DePaulo at that time, and Nick was like, part of his,

I'm not blaming Nick, I love Nick, but he would be like, dude, he's like, you're a fucking real comic, you're always boozing, it's hilarious, and I'd be like, dude, he's like, you're a fucking real comic. You're always boozing, it's hilarious. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, that's, and I had that romanticism of like Tom Waits and fucking, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and I thought there was something.

It's like the, by the way, it's like the least impressive thing in the world to me is like, I get drunk and do a thing. Like, oh cool, like golf? Right, no, I literally had like that feeling of like, I'm this tortured artist thing and you realize it's like, oh, it just sucks. I'm just failing. Yeah.

I suck. Yeah. I'm not doing the thing well, but anyway, so then it just kept going on and on. And, and then, um, my actual, like last time, oh, one of the last time I was drinking is 2012 it was Chris I got sober enough to Christmas and I was like really looking forward to going home for Christmas and I was like This will be great. I'll get a break and I'll go home No one will recognize me from where I am I can't wait and then and then I went and like every

Christmas gift I got was booed like a hundred percent of the things I got were booze and so I was like Oh, this is like my personality. This is like who I am now is I'm the drunk guy. And then my brother-in-law, his father had just died and I was like making jokes about it. I was like, yeah, well you're dead dad. Thinking that was like, I was like that guy. And he was like, what are you, what are you doing? This like sucks.

And I remember him looking like really upset. And I was like, I'm like a whore, I hate myself. I'm horrible. Were you drunk when doing it? Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, that's funny. Got it, got it, got it. I got a good idea for a bit.

Yeah, well, I thought like, oh, that's edgy and funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I just had like a misunderstanding of like what was like cool or whatever. And so yeah, that was it. And I went to, I opened for Gary Gullman New Year's Eve week in Philadelphia. And I was talking to him and he's not a sober guy,

but he doesn't really drink. And he was like, I remember thinking I had like a, I was like, I should get sober. And he was kind of guiding me. And I was like, what happens though? Wait, hold on. I'm like, what if I'm at a party and like, I can't, I hate everybody there.

Like, what am I supposed to do? Not drink, and then he was like, you go home. And it was like a moment of clarity of like, oh right, I don't have to just be in places I don't like people. Where am I? I was like, that's good. And so yeah, I just like- Let me write this down. I was like, I'm gonna get sober and then that was it.

So that, and that, all the success I've had in comedy has come after that. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah, it's the idea of getting drunk and doing something is like the goofiest fucking thing. Well, you realize, yeah, most really successful comedians don't drink.

There's very few. Yeah. There's a few, but not, yeah. This is first on the show, Herpes. Yeah, is that a block? I don't know. I mean, you tell me. That was another, I don't know how much

it's blocking my creativity, but that was another sort of low and another thing of like, what the fuck am I doing? Cause I mean, I had sex with a woman who was like, I have herpes and I was like, I don't care. Which looking back, I was just a nice guy. I was accepting, you know't care. Which looking back, I was just a nice guy. I was accepting, you know? Yeah.

Who needs boundaries? But at the time too, I was like, I was such a drunk that, um, I, my immune system was all fucked up. So I had like the worst outbreak. It was like a month long. It was really horrible. And like, I had to like stay home and it was really bad. Yeah. It was insane.

Why'd you have to stay home? Because like walking was like physically painful. It was insane. Why'd you have to stay home? Because like walking was like physically painful. It was really, really bad. It was like, it was all over and like open source. Did you call the woman? What do you do? Um, no, I, well, I don't know which is possibly two different women I may have gotten from.

I love, I'm, I love it. Well, one woman was like, I have herpes and we had sex, but I didn't have an outbreak for like four months. And then I was kind of hooked up with this other girl at that time when I did have the outbreak. So it's possible it was like dormant for all those months. And it's possible I got it from this other girl who I did call her.

And I was like, do you have herpes by any chance? Because I just realized I have herpes. And she was like, no, I don't have herpes by any chance? Because I just realized I have herpes. And she was like, no, I don't have herpes. And to my knowledge, she'd never had an outbreak, but we don't know. So it was from the, probably from the other lady. I think so.

But yeah, it was really fucking gnarly. It was bad. And again, I think because I was drinking through it and I didn't have medicine, I didn't have health insurance at the time. So I didn't go anywhere to take anything. And I was like, I guess I'll just ride it out. Oh, you didn't have medicine. I didn't have health insurance at the time so I didn't go anywhere to take anything and I was like I guess I'll just ride it out. Oh you didn't do anything?

No, I mean I went to a doctor and then she gave me like some free like I went to like this STD clinic and she gave me like four Valtrix pills because that's like what they're allowed to give out for free I guess that like helped to some degree but just got worse again. Then is that a thing that you have to then like announce? Yeah, I only had to announce it a couple of times because I didn't have that much sex. I said it, I had sex with one, well almost two of them.

Announce it sounds like there's like a public address. Yeah, yeah, like ladies and gentlemen, now batting. No, I hooked up with one girl and we were in bed, we were about to hook up and I was like, just so you know, I have herpes and she was really mean. She was like, oh, that's disgusting. That's horrible. Which I always was frustrated by it because I'm like, well, you're like me being a nice, a considerate person away from having it.

Like, everything you're doing is how you get herpes. We're in bed together. And then another woman I told and she said- You're discouraging honesty. Yeah, exactly. You're discouraging honesty. Yeah, exactly. You're discouraging me being forthcoming. Yeah. Right.

And it'll just spread more. And then I. And I agree. You know what I mean? Like, and she's not wrong. It's nobody wants it. It's not great. Right.

So like I get it, but yeah, it's a tough situation. Um, and then another woman I told and she said, well, it's not ideal, but it's, it's okay. And then another woman I told and she said well it's not ideal but it's it's okay and then that was that and then yeah after that was my wife who I had announced it because we had to hear about the Laker Awards this is like a in Brooklyn. No. It was like 2010 it goes all goes back to Nate. Nate and Janice had a podcast with Chris Laker who's very funny and they did like a fake award show called the Laker Awards.'s very funny and they did like a fake award show called the Laker Awards. Great.

And this is the same year I had shit in the girl's shoe and the award I got was the gentleman's gentleman for being the nicest guy and shitting in it, whatever, it was very silly. And I thought this would be funny, I'll go on stage and say this has been a tough year, I got herpes but this makes it all worth it and I thought it would kill and it just,

bomb, like nobody, people were like, Oh God, it was a different time. And then I came off stage. No, I don't think that's ever going to kill. Well, I think now people are more open. I may cut it from the podcast. Please. And then I came backstage, I went, not backstage, but I went to the back of the room and my now wife, who was just a comic, my friend at the time was like, I think it's great

that you said that. And I thought, Oh, she's got herpes. I'll try to pursue her. And it turns out she actually was just a nice. You asked her to marry you on the spot. I was like, yes, please. But she, it turns out she was just a nice human. But anyways, so then she had already, eventually we hooked up, but she had

already known that I had herpes. So I only had to tell three people. One hated me and didn't have sex with me. And then the other one was like, fine. And the other one was just cool. Great. And now you'll be telling between a hundred thousand and a million, depending on your level of fame.

Probably close to a hundred thousand. If Netflix would fucking get back to me. Fuck. Might be a million. And what do you think of Herpes? You're just like, ah. Yeah, now I don't. That was actually good. And this is where I've always had some amount Um, and do you, what do you think of Herbie's looking like? You just like, ah. Yeah, now I don't, that was actually good. And this is where I've always had, uh, some amount of sort of, um, stoicism

at Eastern philosophy in my life at some point is I thought, well, I, I have it. I can't do anything about it. It is a word. It is a good, it's like immersion therapy for the worst case scenario. Like, okay, you live in fear and then it comes proving that nothing's as bad as you think it's going to be. Yeah, you're kind of like, all right, I guess I have that and it's not ideal, but now I do well enough and I have health insurance.

So I have Valtrex. So if I feel something coming on, I take it and it's quite a drug. It like, it kicks its ass pretty much right away. And I've had it for longer. So I think your immune system's used to it. And my wife has never gotten, she may have herpes, but she's never had an outbreak. She's been having sex for a long time. So it's not that bad. It's not great.

It's not like a death, it's not, yeah. No, the first outbreak was really horrendous. But again, if I wasn't drinking and then slept properly and took Valtrex, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. So it's not the worst. Tinnitus or tinnitus, what do you call it? I call it tinnitus. I had a bit about this.

Yeah, it is tinnitus. Yeah. Cause it's not a... By the way, the Himalayas are the Himalayas. Is that right? Yes. No kidding. Yes, learned that in the last month and then looked it up two days ago, the Himalayas are the Himalayas. Is that right? Yes. No kidding. Yes, learned that in the last month

and then looked it up two days ago, the Himalayas. Oh, I'll never remember that. Kind of like Somalia, that's how I'll try to remember. Yeah, there you go. That would be a thing that I would feel very sorry for myself about. Yeah, it's another thing I've sort of just accepted and you kind of just go, all right,

I guess I'm dealing with this. Yeah. And you kind of get used to it. It's not bad if I'm in a room like this we're talking during conversation and stuff like that but I can't be like inside I have to sleep with the sleep machine and it sucks what does that mean white noise like a white noise machine yeah like yeah sleep machine is not the right term white noise machine is what I meant it's and I have to have like the on all the time, which is why, cause my baby has that too. So we're just two buddies with noise makers in the

bed, but yeah. What does that do? Well, what's, what is for people that don't know what tinnitus is, what is it? It's just a constant ringing in my ears. I mean, I can, if I focus on it, I can hear it now. And, uh, it's, but it's not, if I focus on it, I can hear it now. And it's a plus. But it's not, meaning so you can tune it out, so to speak.

Yeah. And if there's other noise in the room, if people are like kind of socializing, you're not noticing it because I can kind of focus on your voice and my own voice. But like, there's no, like I'm a big meditator, but I have to have this like the meditation app I use is it's actually Sam Harris's meditation app, who's a fellow tinnitus sufferer. But there's like a thing you can have like birds chirping, which helps. Cause if it's just dead silence, it makes me like

crazy. I can really get stuck and looped into it. Cause it sounds like, like, yeah. All the time. Where did it come from? I don't know. I think stress makes it worse. And it was during like a really stressed out

anxious period of my life that I started noticing it. And of course, at that time I had like horrible, um, uh, what's that thing? Where you think you have stuff all the time. Uh, yeah. Which is another one that I left off there, but, um, yeah. So I thought I was going deaf and, uh, at different times But yeah, so I thought I was going deaf and at different times in my life, I thought I was

going blind and deaf. Yeah. Blind. Yeah, because when you're a kid, my eyesight started to go and all of a sudden I was like, Oh, I'm losing my eyesight, which isn't crazy to me to think as like a 12 year old, you suddenly can't see as well.

And I'm like, I'm only 12, old people lose their eyesight, but I'm like, if I do the math on this thing. Yeah, I'm like, if it keeps degenerating, like by 30, I'll be a fucking blind person. That's not crazy. I mean, it is crazy, but it didn't seem crazy. But anyways, yeah, it all of a sudden, my ears just started ringing

and I would do this thing where I would ask everybody, I'm like, do you hear ringing? Do you hear ringing? And I just drove people fucking crazy. And this is at what age? This was like when I was 35 or something like that. Okay, all right. So it started around when you were 35.

Yeah, I think so. How long did it take before you Googled it? Oh, right away. I was a big Googler. I always was like, that was one of my things my therapist says, like you have to stop. It's the top search engine. I get it.

He's like, you gotta stop looking things up. I would always be looking shit up. And is this cancer, is that cancer? Yeah. And am I cancer? But yeah, and then so I went to the, had hearing tests and all these things. And I'm like, I have fucking brain tumor

and all that stuff. And then people are just like, yeah, it's just ringing. And then you kind of find, that's what the internet is great, is you can kind of find forums and articles of like, oh, other people will deal with, that's all you want in life is someone else to be like, oh, I have that. Well, that's what I was going to say about the end of the world.

At least no, at least everyone's getting ripped off. Right. Like that is, there is something like, okay, as long as we're all suffering the same amount. But part of it is too, I think a lot of this goes back to feeling unrecognized by family and stuff and later like the industry, it all comes back to family and upbringing, but there's something about dying with everybody

that I'm like, but I wanna die where everyone stands over me and goes, remember he said that, that was really, oh shit, that was really brilliant, that was amazing. Because that's how I feel like, that's the only time I'll get the, the praise I need from family and friends and loved ones is when I'm dying. Who's had a good death to you? I, and I, and I mean that I'm asking myself that as well. I'm talking about funeral, you know, like cultural grieve, grief. Well, I mean, like cultural grief.

Well, I mean, like you ever see the movie, Mandela? You ever see Big Fish, the film Big Fish? Yes, people like Big Fish, I'm not a big fan. I mean, when you think about the movie, it's like this guy that lived his life and he has this fantasy of dying and they carry him to the river

and everyone he's ever known is there and they're all clapping for him. Yeah, it's the end of the movie. And doing this, yeah. So like that's how I feel. I want to be on a deathbed, and everyone's coming in and going, you're number one. We never forgot to tell you, you're the greatest.

You're the biggest influence. You know, that kind of thing. You want the rocking chair, and everyone comes to visit you, and you go, you did well, son. Somehow in my death fantasy, my parents are there, which would be a great tragedy. Makes no sense, yep. Parents were there.

But yeah, I don't know, you just always, and the ironic thing about it is then when people do praise me or say, oh, that was great, I go, eh. Get away. Hear that. Like when I went to Iraq, my father texted me and was like, good luck and I'm proud of you. And I was like, ugh, what the fuck are you doing, dude?

For a USO show? Yeah, I'm just like, come on, man, I know him. Wow, it was still, the war was still going on. Yeah, yeah, no, it was still raging. I could have died. You were in danger. Yeah, but okay, well, all right, if that's the great one, that's the right, the big fish funeral.

What's the, what's your worst case scenario? What a boy. I don't know. Worst case scenario is, I mean, I guess dying alone. Like you're. Okay. But even dying alone, I always think you're, I'm a, I'm kind of a loner. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I think people over,

um, it's like when, it's like going to a restaurant, you have a great dinner, but the dessert is like, eh. Right. Is that like, fuck the whole dinner or is it just cause the dessert wasn't what you wanted, if you follow my metaphor, like, so the last five minutes of an 80 year life. Right. Yeah, I mean, you'll be in it too. You'll be going, but I think dying alone,

I mean, like, I'm like drowning. I'm like, help me, somebody help. No, no, no, yeah. You want to, yeah, I obviously like eaten, shot, you know, something, even though shot, if you don't see it coming, whatever whatever well, I've always thought about killing myself I mean I think about it all the time but like that seems like a nice way to be like Ah, this is the time I'll write a letter a note and then yeah, you know

Good night. You like the sort of self-determination. I want control I guess a lot of this is just about control and that's what it goes back to OCD and panic and so all these things It's just about control and the fear of things you can't control. And that's what it goes back to OCD and panic. And so all these things, it's just about control and the fear of things you can't control. Yeah. And that's why I like stand up. It feels like ultimately you're like, I'm controlling this whole thing.

All right. I think we kind of covered this, but crippling fear of death. Yeah, we kind of got into that, but it doesn't exist for me much anymore. But yeah, for years, it was really really really bad. I was completely obsessed. What do you think you talked about your I don't know if you call it spirituality meditating. What do you think that meditating is a good

sort of brain cleanser or do you think that there is, do you get into like the spirituality of it? Yeah, I think both. I get really into the spirituality of it and philosophy kind of stuff. And I read a lot of stoicism

and then sort of sobriety literature. They're all sort of connected. They're all very similar. What do you make of, what did you think was going to happen after you die and what do you think now? I thought nothing this then and now, which is disappointing.

But I mean, I don't know, but like I feel like it's, I've always felt like, ever since I was a kid, like death is just like it was before life, but before life you feel like you were part of it because you have a sense of history. is just like it was before life, but before life you feel like you were part of it because you have a sense of history. You know, I wasn't around in 1975, but I know the Reds beat the Red Sox in the World Series in seven games and one for the Cuckoo's Nest won best picture. So I feel like I'm, and I've seen both of those things. So it feels like I was part

of that, but I wasn't. Right. I was part of that, but I wasn't. But the future, there is no, I can't watch the 2056 best picture, so I'm like, oh no, there's gonna be these things happening that I won't be part of. It's a TikTok, just FYI. Right, exactly, that's really funny. But you know what I mean?

Okay, so that's the thing is you don't, because you can't see it, you think it's all earth. Yeah. Well, I think too because the other thing about death when you're a kid is just permanent nothingness. So I sort of pictured myself in this vast nothingness, but that's not nothingness. That would be something and that would be quite depressing if I was just in black with no sound or visual or whatever, but it's not even that.

It's there's no consciousness. So there won't be anything, but the idea of not, I really like life. I enjoy living. I enjoy the colors and the sounds and the ocean and then baseball. Yeah. So the idea of being robbed of that is like,

that sucks. I don't want that. And so I think that was a big part of it. But now I sort of go, I can't control any of that and it's inevitable. And you're not being robbed. Right, exactly. You got it.

Yes, I live in it. It's like, I ate my dinner and then they take the plate and you're like, you have robbed me of my dinner. Well, and that and also you're like, I'm the most, I've lived a better life than almost anybody in the history of planet Earth. And it's a miracle that I'm even here. It doesn't make any sense that I'm here. And it's wonderful and I've met all these great people and it's been a beautiful life.

And maybe we're born into countries that they're just immediately imprisoned or whatever it is. So I'm like one of the luckiest people ever on earth. So that all thinking about all those things has helped. And what we were talking about earlier is that like, I will be dead and now I'm not. So I should really have a nice day. Yeah. It's pretty good a lot of money it's like it's wonderful. How much? Well not as much as you. Well we both did

town hall same sure made about the same money. Okay. Yeah, maybe. Hopefully. Um, right at town. Um, all right. Well, it was great talking to you, man. Yeah, it was, it was, uh, I hope you, I hope you enjoyed it. I did. I really did.

Yeah. And I, and like, yeah, it's, I think what you're saying is like, you just have more gratitude if I could simplify it. I put a little gratitude in my attitude as they say. What a, write it down folks, that one's for free. Joe List. Thanks everybody. Netflix.

Ha ha. All you have to do is open, open up your hand, my man