Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Johnny Knoxville

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Johnny Knoxville ('Jackass,' 'Pretty Sure I Can Fly' podcast & more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 1:21 Big Brother Magazine 2:10 Self-defense equipment test video 3:05 What he thought his life was going to be 5:04 Jeff Tremaine 7:04 Spike Jones 8:08 Pitching Jackass 9:29 Copycat Incidents 14:57 Fame 16:33 Hunter S. Thompson 22:45 Sponsor: Thesis 24:51 Sponsor: Therapy Path 25:45 Jackass Movies 29:35 Anxiety 32:02 Helicopter Parent 33:43 Aging as a Jackass 34:40 Concussion from Bull in Jackass Forever 38:55 Avoiding Confrontation in Personal Relationships 49:32 Self-Worth 54:13 Done with Big Stunts 56:23 Softening in Old Age 59:03 What he makes of life ---------------------------------------------------------- Listen to Johnny Knoxville's podcast 'Pretty Sure I Can Fly': https://wondery.com/shows/pretty-sure-i-can-fly-with-johnny-knoxville-elna-baker/ Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail]) Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks Sponsors: https://www.HelloTushy.com use promo code NEAL for 10% off your first bidet order https://www.ExpressVPN.com/NEAL for an extra 3 months free! ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi guys. It's the blocks podcast. My guest today is, um, you hate to use the word icon. You know what I mean? Legend is insulting. It's just old people. Shit. It's Johnny Knoxville from Jackass everybody from we'd like to say also, but

he's from Jackass and he has a podcast called Pretty Sure I Can Fly. The premise is about people who kind of broke barriers who weren't sure if they could or not. Yeah, they achieved something great against all odds. Everyone's telling them they're crazy. And most of the time they went, they sacrificed physically a great amount.

Great. Which I'm sure you can relate to. Yes. Yes. Yes. An unhealthy amount. Yes. Yes. Okay.

So I don't know if people remember or know. So the show started, Jacket started because it was the magazine or the, I guess, was it was a the magazine or the I guess was it a fanzine Big Brother? It was a skateboarding magazine owned by Larry Flint and the creator of Jackass, Jeff Tremaine was the editor. Oh great. And most of the cast either wrote for the magazine or were featured in the magazine and There's like two or three people

that you know couple came from Westchester, Pennsylvania and and Ryan and Dave England and Aaron came from Portland, but everyone else was in Big Brother the origin There was like a video component to Big Brother? Yeah, they would, every couple years, they would release these videos that had a lot of skating and naughty behavior in it. Uh-huh. I wasn't a skater, but I had some...

Were you naughty? What's that? Were you naughty? Sometimes I acted ugly, my mom would say. Great. Uh, so yeah, that's, that was my end. I could, like my first article for them was an article on self-defense equipment where I would

get, would test these different devices on myself and, uh, write an article about it. And Jeff said, well, you should also video it and put it in our- The video. Yeah. Yeah. And so I did.

Charge! Ah! Ah! Oh! And, but since there was a gun involved in one of the bits, I arrived that morning to pick up Dmitriyaskovic, who ended up being the DP on. Oh yeah. I needed to be, yeah.

He just kind of handed me the camera through the door. I'm like, aren't you coming? He's like, no, I can't. Jeff won't let me. I was like, well, shit, I can't operate this. I had to get my friends that were there to operate anyway, it ended up in the video and

things kind of took off from there. Okay. So what did you think your life was gonna be at that point? Like, you're how old? 25? 20, mid-20s? 27. So, all right, so it's not like super early in the day. It's like you gotta kind of figure this thing out.

Are you that kind of person? Are you the kind of I need to figure this thing out person? Are you driven in that way? Like, were you married kids? What was the, was there any impetus to succeed in the world? The inciting incident was when my then girlfriend, she got pregnant and I was, we had a kid at 24 years old. Mm. I had a daughter on the way.

Now I'd been out in LA trying to make it as an actor, but really not taking some classes, but not really focused and trying to do something. But I have never known fear in my life. Like I have a daughter on the way and I have to provide for this kid. I was terrified. But that led me to like, God, I reached out to my friend John Linson and he got me a gig writing articles at this magazine and my next door neighbor was Antoine Fuqua and the same duplex. He hooked me up with this casting agent who hooked me up with a commercial agent and that pushed everything forward for me.

And one of my article ideas was the self-defense equipment and no one in town wanted part of it because there was a gun involved. So you're pitching to like GQ and Esquire and VICE doesn't exist. No, so all those, everyone liked it. Stuff. Yeah, everyone, I don't remember pitching the stuff, but. Details. Whoever, yeah, sure, details. But the only person who would help me buy some of the things, cause I was broke was Tremaine.

Yeah. And he liked the idea. So I ended up doing it for him, which was worked out for everybody. And then, so the video. That was my best guess at how to support my family was to like just throw everything against the wall, including my body. Freelance writing and or whatever, naughty stuff. Whatever, whatever you need.

You were doing ugly? Huh? Acting ugly? I was acting ugly sometimes. Yep, acting ugly. Okay, so then the, it doesn't take off immediately? Like the video was sort of floating around, right? Yes, it came out and you know, in an underground way,

it got a little heat, but what I did is I took my part of the video and just started sending it to people, you know, that I thought could help me. In the, with the same idea of like, just, I mean, I got a kid here or coming or. I'm just here, this is what I do, I don't know what use it is, I don't know. Were you a good writer? Do you consider yourself a good writer or was it passable? I was pretty good.

Pretty good? You know, yeah. I was no Cormac McCarthy, but I was decent. Sure. And one, someone got back to us, one of the producers of Guinness Book of World Records or something's like, oh, come in, we'll do a show. And I'm like, well, if I want to do a show, I'm going to have Tremaine involved. And they came back with a deal that heavily favored me and didn't really honor Tremaine. And so I said no.

Were you doing that to reward Tremaine for your, the belief in the premise? Or like, did you feel safer with him? I felt like Tremaine and I were a really good team. We complimented each other. Okay. And I believed in us. So turn them down and Jeff's we call Spike and telling about our idea for a show and it was kind of, it was a little bit of jack ass, but we didn't know if we should be behind a desk.

That kind of thing and Spike's like, you guys are already doing the show, the Big Brother videos. Spike may be the greatest distiller of ideas of all time of just like, here's what's good about it. Do that. Yes. Yes. And we're like, oh yeah, we knew that of course. Yeah.

And, but he wanted to be involved, which suddenly two guys who really didn't know anything, Spike Jones is behind us. Yeah. And he's directed a movie or two by now. Yeah. Uh, so now people think we know something. We didn't, we still don't. Um, but we got his agency, we got his lawyer

and suddenly we've arrived in luckily, you know, the show took off. You pitched MTV. We pitched to, first we pitched to HBO. Interesting. How was the pass? It was brutal because we really had it. Did they say, here's what they said to me and

Chappelle, why do we need you? We have Chris Rock. In the room they say that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Dave's so- How'd that work out for him? Yeah, Dave's so petty that he went,

don't forget about me on our way up. Cause so yeah, that's literally what happened. We really didn't have everything worked out. We let Spike do the talking. And since we had everything worked out, he let Spike do the talking and since we had anything worked out, he got hung up a few times and on the pitch and then we showed the tape and it was just crickets.

It was fucking crickets in the room. It was a lady we were pitching to and she was just not into it. So it was pretty funny in hindsight. But then we went to Comedy Central and MTV and they both wanted it. Yeah, so Okay, so then you do six No, we did 24 Wow. Okay, so they sort of thought like this is cheap and

We can it'll like upfront. I'm saying like you did 24 in the first season Well, they called it three seasons, but it were buying eights, and that was a season. But around, I don't know, second season sometime, we got some copycat incidents. Right. Which was unfortunate. And it was an election year, and...

2000? Yeah. It must have been, right? 2000, yeah. I mean, if it's a presidential, it's 2000 or 2000. I think it's 2000. Yeah, I mean it's a presidential it's 2000 or 2000. Yeah Lieberman came down on MTV yep, Viacom me personally. What do you okay? I want to ask about that What do you think of that as a because I remember you guys ended up having to put a warning on it

It was a bit when he was. Warning was there from the beginning. Okay. But what they did is they came down on us and suddenly going into our third season, we had an OSHA person and we had all these, like they tried to say we couldn't jump off anything higher than four feet and all these really silly rules. We couldn't do the show.

And was that from MTV? They like legally had to? Well, like MTV didn't want to do it, right? But they kind of were getting leaned on. And, and it got to the point where I couldn't see doing this show the way we wanted to do it. I gave an interview to my hometown newspaper saying I quit Jackass.

And man, did that start. How'd that go? People were angry. Very upset. Like Jeff and Spike or like fans or the guys? We, everyone understood. Yeah. From our side.

You've done 24, three seasons, et cetera. Yeah, and they weren't hiring our people for the next round. They weren't giving us any indication. I saw the writing on the wall. I'm like, I think we're done. I'm done. But it was doing incredible ratings, right?

Yeah, it was doing, yeah, the highest ratings they had after that point. But I know what we do is silly, but it meant a lot to me personally. So then I just quit. I would also like to say, and I said this before we started, when I saw it, I just thought this is a perfect distillation

of what it is to be a young guy. I've never, I still haven't, no one's topped it in terms of what, in terms of like fucking around a group of guys, fucking around and lovably injuring each other. Or lovingly injuring, lovingly injuring yourselves for fun to amuse your friends, abusing each other to entertain. It's funny when you get slapped, it's funny to slap.

Yeah. That's what being a young guy is about. That's what kind of being a guy is about up to a certain age. Um, but, so I, I get how much it, like it meant a lot to me. I had nothing to do. I remember thinking I would walk to LA from New York just to volunteer and go like, what do you need? I wasn't, I was, I don't even think we've done

Chappelle's show yet, but I was like, I can't believe how much I love it. It was, it just reminded me of growing up. And it- It reminded, I think that it did that for a lot of people. Yeah. You know, just fucking around with your friends. Yeah.

Okay. So what do you think of the copycat? Is it unavoidable? Do you think it's not your responsibility? Do you think it's like, what do you want us to do? Did you feel like the John Hinckley Jr. Taxi driver catching the ride? How the fuck is that their problem?

I had the delusion back in 1981 that by shooting the president, I could impress Jodie Foster. Like blaming art, or in this case, a TV show, on behavior. Well, it's very unfortunate when anyone gets hurt trying to imitate something that you did. So I don't like kids getting hurt. Yeah, oh yeah of course. We always tried to

stress like we say don't try this at home but but we mean it, right? But it happened and I felt bad, you know, because I had a kid, right? But I felt like we did everything we could. What part bugged me is like when Lieberman made it part of his campaign to come down hard on Hollywood, which is really no move at all. There's nothing at stake. You're achieving nothing. Yeah. You know, it's a very easy thing to do.

It's very high profile and, but you're not really. Nothing changes. For the people. Yeah. So. Did he save lives? Like. No.

He like, so a kid didn't tear his ACL or get Nothing changes. For the people. Yeah, it's not, did he save lives? No. He like, so a kid didn't tear his ACL or get second degree burns in the, like, okay. Yeah, it's just a bullshit platform move. So you didn't feel, you felt bad, but not especially responsible. Now I feel like that's how I would have felt. I don't know how you felt.

Yeah. Like bad, but like, ah, come on. Like what do you want us to do? Yeah, and I beat myself up a lot, but in that instance, I felt like, I felt like we did everything we could. I felt bad, but. Okay, so what do you make of, how'd you take the fame?

That took some getting used to, took some spinning my wheels, which I've been known to do. Spinning your wheels what? Overthinking? Anesthetizing with going out all the time or meeting girls all the time, or just trying to figure out who I was took me quite a while. I mean, that was late. That was like 29 when it hit. And then I probably didn't get my feet on the ground until I was around 35. And what's that, what is, is it just the montage,

the I made it montage of like girls, drugs, alcohol, treating friends poorly? Is it? I don't, I don't necessarily, I'm not treating friends poorly. Um, I'm treating myself poorly. In what way? Well just... Being on jackass? No thought before action, no no just overdoing it in a lot of areas. Did you feel like you you you were supposed to? Part of me thought, part of me, you gotta be careful how you choose your heroes, right? Yeah. So part of me thought that I, like, what's that? You were Hunter S. Thompson, who were you?

Yeah, I loved Hunter, right? That's one of the first people I sent the tape to. That's funny. And he called me back at home. Great. I was, I can't tell you how fast my heart was beating. I can only imagine. That he would take the time to call me and tell me what he thought.

You had no relationship with him? None. And what did he say? God, I can't even, I can't even remember precisely what he said then. Right. But it was very glowing in his hunter type of way. I did get to hang out with them a few years later in New Orleans. And, uh, that was quite a night.

Is he a cautionary tale or a best case scenario? What did you think then? What, what's, what's your arc been in terms of what you make of that style and that, that lifestyle? Well, because that guy can write his ass off. Just a brilliant writer, right? Mm-hmm. But the persona he backed himself up into, it cost you.

Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. It cost him. I remember walking in the bar that night in Orleans and his head was just down on the bar and he was just beside himself. And he was in the pain and he was saying all of his friends are

passed and gone and what's the point. And I don't want to feel like I'm name dropping, but I was with Sean Penn that night and Sean got him, he's like, come on, stop talking like that. Snap out of it, let's go. Yeah. Let's go. And we picked up his doctor bag. Well, Sean picked it up. I, you know, his famous doctor bag. I was hoping to pick it up, but we went back to his room. Yeah. Right.

And he came out of his shell because everyone started reading from the curse of Lono. And it was like a lot of, his editor was there, a lot of some other actors and actresses, and it was all kind of a celebration of his words. Kind of impromptu? Yeah, we were sitting in a circle, we were sitting in a circle, reading from The Curse of Lono.

And I kept passing on it because I was blitzed, right? I was shit-housed and I was peeled up, I was drunk, and he reached in his bag and threw me a big thing of pills and I just downed a few without looking and I said, Vicodin? And he's like, yeah. It was like little respect, which is a terrible, it's a terrible fucking thing to be able to do, right? It's hilarious. Terrible.

Yeah, you guessed it and he was like, yeah, I see some, I see some. Well, this guy's okay, yeah. It's my kind of guy. Let me live my- But eventually he took Umbridge and he's like, you gotta read. And everything that I was fearing happened like I stumbled on some Hawaiian words and and he's like well I don't I don't I don't know what's going on usually very bright and I was like and cuz I'm I'm I'm gripped with anxiety

anyway right that's one of my blocks yeah well so then all the things I had feared came true and what do you think back then though like do you think this is so fucking cool I can't stand it and I I love having this lifestyle what what around that period where you like this is what we this is what we play for we we're doing yeah I wasn't thinking very deeply about what I was doing to myself and the ramifications on my family. When you look back, what do you think you were doing? You were just adjusting to fame? That's really putting a happy face on it.

What's sad face? No, I was just, I felt like I was, I felt like I had lost a little control and it took a few years before I wanted to gain control, right? Before I wanted to pull myself together, before I saw like, shit, you gotta like reel it in. So it sounds like the version of self-destruction? It never got to like extreme. Yeah. What I consider extreme, but it's good that I reeled it in, you know?

Yeah. Okay, so when you say pick your heroes wisely, did you sort of have a shift consciously of like, all right, that didn't, that's a bad ending? Well, my heroes still stayed my heroes, right? But I just could look at them more from a 360 point of view, as opposed to, you know, just glorifying them. Cause I remember I was in New Orleans and, and Hunter called me again and he wanted, he was wanting to go home and...

To Wyoming or... Colorado, Willow Creek. Do you know anyone that's flying back? And I said, let me check. And I made a bounce, you know, to see who's flying that direction. And oddly enough, it was Jessica Simpson flying that direction. Great. And I called them back. I'm a hunter. Like there's a private plane going back. And by that time, he had found a plane to get back. He was really wanting to get back. And I think less than,

I don't know, four to six weeks later, he'd taken his life. And I think that's why he was wanting to get back. And it's pretty jarring, you know, seeing him like that in the end. This is shortly after your night with him? Yeah. And that, was that a bit of a wake up call or was it just more gradual than that?

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Takes like six, seven minutes to take the test, and you'll get three different methods that could help you with a link to the websites where you can try to find a practitioner. Therapy-path.com. Go do it now, you guys. So then you start making the movies. I'm assuming that's a better experience? Or is it more, cause it's still MTV productions? Or you guys, it was paramount and you didn't have to worry about OSHA and all that stuff?

Yeah, once we could make Jackass for the movies, all the OSHA bullshit went away. And we didn't have to worry about nudity, we didn't have to worry about swear words. We would police ourself more than the studio would. Like, we tried to avoid bits that were easily imitatable. Oh, interesting. I guess that makes sense of where you're using cannons and shit like that.

Hello I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is the flight of Icarus. Or jet engines. Yeah yeah it's like things it's like people are gonna have a hard time getting. The big grand opening, those huge spectacular openings you did, where did, how did you guys decide to do those? I'm trying to think how that came about. I know the big ending came about, because we do open and a close.

about because we do open and a close we showed Jackass the the movie the first one to all the execs at Paramount Sherry Lansing was running it then afterwards like some of the execs stood up and said Paramount's never going to release this this is this is awful the worst thing we've ever seen. Great. And Sherry Lansing, to her credit, loved it. She goes, everything, just, I loved it. But can you do a close to go along with the opening,

to bookend it? And so that's when we decided to do a close. Was it like, was it we're graduating to movie so we should make it more grand? Like is that the right or? Yeah, I guess that's where the opening came from, but I don't know whose idea that was. Yeah, I'm just more concerned, not concerned,

I'm more curious about you, Jeff, and Spike going like, how do we turn this into a movie? Because they work really, they work really well. The segments work so well together, and I'm sure you guys, do you move them around and? Oh yeah, there's a lot. We just took the breaks off, right? We don't have to hold back.

We could hold back for the television show because there's only so much you can show. The movies, whatever our heart desired, as long as we didn't think that it was extremely irresponsible to the point where it's easily imitatable. But yeah, once we have all the bits, there's so much of reworking it in post with. Because you don't want to have a lot of disgusting things in a row. Yeah. And if you went, if you just got out of a really gnarly stunt, you might want a little palette

cleanser, cutesy thing. Sure. You have to think about what the audience is watching because some of it can be a lot, you know. Yeah. And would you do that in screenings where you'd be like. We did a lot of screenings for friends just to

get their feedback. That's those were, those are very useful to us when we screen for friends and, uh, cause we listen. Yeah. And, and it's in, in, in, in, in, in a comedy. That's all you have. You just gotta listen. Yeah.

You know, if it's quiet or we know when they're supposed to be shocked. But with comedy, it's pretty easy to like, okay, we got to tighten it up there or lose that completely. Yeah. All right. You have, one of your bullets gets the box. You have anxiety. Do you feel like you pick the worst possible job for that?

Or is it like, all right, fuck it, let's monetize it. The anxiety really doesn't come up in my job so much. Interesting. Because I'm the one pulling the strings, right? Jeff and I and Spike, like I know not, each of us, me, Spike, Jeff know 98% of the things that are going on the set and 2% we will hold from each other. Right, okay.

And I don't worry about someone pranking me because like, that going to cost them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Uh, so you're like Islam in that way. You know, I get that a lot. I'm sure you, you get mistaken for Islam a lot.

You don't like, you don't like jokes about you. Oh, fuck. Okay, so how is it in your life life? In the, how's the anxiety in your life? I'm better with it now, it still happens. We're talking anxiety attacks, general anxiety. I don't have a tax, but you can spend too much time You can spend too much time thinking about something and I guess ruminating. And it...

Sometimes it comes across as like socially, being out somewhere. Yeah. I'm scared of crowds. Always? I'm getting better, but I usually try to avoid crowds. And that's not a fame deal, that's just you don't like crowds. No, no, that was like I got out.

When you were 18. When I was four years old, my dad took me to a Tennessee game, a hundred thousand drunk, hyped up ball fans and I was terrified. And since then, I just don't like it. Do you worry about your loved ones a lot? Do you worry about- I worry about my kids. Yeah. I was, as far as saying something or doing something a little off color,

I was pretty open-minded, but if they're on the playground climbing or anything, like I was the worst helicopter parent right under them, you know, cause I just couldn't stay in the thought of them. You're aware of how ironic that is, right? Yeah. What if they had said, I'm Johnny Knoxville's daughter,

and this is jungle gym? I'd lie. Would that have helped? I'd let them know that, well, I have two daughters and a son, and the daughters I could just tell. They're not, they like the pranking side or giving me or my friends hell, but they just don't have that side in mind. Well, I think that's a pretty clear gender.

I mean, it's not universal, but like I'm dealing with a four-year-old boy and he literally is like, can we fight? After dinner, can we fight? And I'm like, yeah, we can fight. It's so, they're so fun. Yeah. And, but my son, like, you know, he's a little wild, but even he, like, I can tell that he's got a better head

on his shoulders than what I did. And plus they don't have- We had different lives too. Yeah, and they don't have a kid that they can't afford. That's making them do all this horrible shit. I had to make some quick moves. What do you make of work-wise the... I mean, I'm sure you grapple with this all the time,

and it's sort of... The more of them you've made, the more it becomes like, I can't believe we're still doing this. With the Jackass movies? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we didn't even think it could be a TV show. Yeah. And it almost wasn't, we almost didn't,

we got shut down during the pilot. But the tax, the physical tax you paid. Oh yeah, that's been real. What are the exact things that have happened? Like that you are now every day, what's different? Well, I've been pretty lucky for a purposeful, unlucky guy. My lower back's pretty blown out, but I exercise different parts of my body to keep that and check and the concussions we're still dealing with and you keep an eye on it as much as I can

you know when you remember yeah yeah it's so I think I'm okay, but the last one really spun me out with the Bull and Jackass Forever. I kind of, that was a bad one. Oh my God. It's coming too. It's coming, yeah. You know, it was my 16th and I was almost 50. Concussion.

Yeah, yeah. Over six months, I just basically lost, started like my mind was playing tricks on me. And that was frightening because that had never happened before. Where it's frightening, yes, I can only imagine. Did it make you angry? Or did it make you feel like,

regretful of like, why the fuck didn't you listen to like all the, don't, how much money, none of that? No, no, because you can't get the toothpaste back in the tube, what am I, I can't, worrying is not gonna change that, or getting angry about that. So, that I was pretty good about. I just wanted to feel like myself again,

and not just having this loop of bad shit going on in my head constantly. Probably couldn't have helped the anxiety. No, no, man. I got down to like, I don't know, lost 25, 30 pounds and just, just, oh, it's like times where I was just nonverbal. Just, it was bad. Nonverbal, just it was bad. Nonverbal because you were so wrapped up in it? I was sitting in the, I was trying to get these treatments

to help these transcranial magnetic stimulation. And I started out where I would talk, it was like over a series of 12 to 15 weeks and started out. Did they do this side? Because for depression, they did this side on me. I don't know, they just stuck something on, I don't know what area really.

But I remember being pretty civil with the guy and chatting them up while we were. Yeah, you're just watching TV. Then by the end, I was just, I couldn't even speak to him and I just couldn't because I was too far in my head. But I got out. Because it's a lot of you're going like, am I, what was my brain, did I used to be like this?

Was a lot of like questioning, wait is this functioning? Or just like convincing myself something was happening when it was not. Yeah. You know, I remember talking to friends like, what you think is happening is not happening. And I'm like, I just didn't see how that can be. In reality? Yeah, yeah.

I was just like, I don't see how that can be. I was just telling myself crazy shit. The movie's not going to come, it'll never come out. It'll never, you know, just making up shit constantly telling myself. Yeah. But then finally I got on Zoloft and it slowly brought me back around and I just have so much empathy for

that guy, you know, me then. Yeah. Or anyone going through that. Because it's- Because you're getting bad information. From your brain. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Brain is playing tricks on you. It's also hard to, if you can't rely on your brain, it's like, this is kind of all I have. Yeah. It's like, I, trusting your own instincts. It's like, even if it's wrong, at least it's consistent or something. But if it's, if it's straight up lying to you, then you're pretty lost. Like over six months, the fog just rolled in and just hung there.

And was that a typical response to a concussion? That's the first time I've had that. What, did doctors say it was like that this is a fairly common thing? Well, there's just from a traumatic brain injury, like there's bleeding on the brain. And so for that type of thing, you know, it made sense to the doctors, but they're like, you can't have any more.

And I'm like, you know what? I don't want any more. You know something? You know, I don't have any more. I just had the same thought. I don't like them. I don't have anything left to prove. Yeah. I think I've done it.

Yep. And, uh, but wow, that was, that was rough. I bet. I'm glad to be on the other side of that. Yes. Uh, you avoid confrontation and. In personal relationships. Personal relationships.

So how'd that go? Meaning is it, I mean, if you avoid confrontation, And personal relationships. So how'd that go? Meaning is it, I mean, if you avoid confrontation, you kind of avoid resolution. No? Yeah. And talking things through, right? Because of, I grew up in an atmosphere where it was very combative as a child. You know, my father was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with the alcohol. He's either the best dad of all

time or he comes home and he's just constant fights with my mom and yelling. Sometimes we have to leave and not knowing which dad was coming home that night. I remember like around 430 she would get a call from work and I'd be like, how do you sound? She goes, he hasn't been drinking. And it was just the, just the happiness would wash over me. But if she's like, he's drinking, it was, it's still frightening. Yeah.

Where, where, because the thing about, I grew up in alcoholism and my dad was an alcoholic and it truly is like, there's nowhere to run. Yeah. And you don't know, it's like being bombed. You don't know what, it's like being just like in Yemen or something. You're like, I don't know where to hide

and I don't even know how to diffuse it. Did you get better at diffusing them or did that even? No, like, you know, you try to please, you know? And then you try to do that. The things you like, you learn to like please and what you do end up doing in relationships or you learn to keep secrets, you do end up doing in relationships or you learn to keep secrets Yeah, what you end up doing in relationships. You learned all these bad habits from

growing up with an alcoholic and and And it take took me a long time before I could take Responsibility of my own actions and go., that happened, but I can't keep, I can't fucking keep keeping secrets. Yeah. You know, I can't stop pleasing. Right. I gotta stop, I gotta always not try to fix things. Maybe just talk and see what each of you need as opposed to like, oh, you're unhappy, what can I do? Yeah. Because I want to be happy.

I want our home to be happy, not like my childhood home. Yeah. And I don't want to talk about, I don't want to get into heavy conversations because if you get upset, I'm going to feel alone and frightened. Upset? Does that include crying or does that include yelling? Does that just yell? Just, no, it doesn't even happen to them. They don't, like I'm really, like avoid confrontation. So like, I'm not going to raise my voice. And I don't want them to raise theirs.

But just, but it's just, I feel like this is, it's an odd feeling, but they don't even have to like yell or cry. It's just, if I feel a disconnect, that's painful. Yeah. And I don't like that. And how would you, if you felt the disconnect, would you then go into like please mode? Let me please them and let me get them back however? Sometimes, or sometimes,

I've gone into like internal and like, I kinda shut down. Right? Which is- Anger, is it an angry shutdown or is it a hurt shutdown? It's a hurt shutdown, but there's a anger swirling. Uh-huh because they made you do this

The night was going great, uh-huh and Then we get into this talk and now look at us. Yeah. And watch me wither. Yeah. So selfish, right? And by shutting down, you're just making things worse. And so you just have to realize that. Realize, check in with myself, realize what's going on, realize

what I'm doing and I'm bringing to it and going, well, you're making it a lot fucking worse. How about acting like a grownup and talking about it? You get there. And I don't do this every time, but I've done it. You don't do the right thing every time or you don't do the wrong thing every time? I don't do the, I don't do the wrong thing.

I don't, every time I don't shut down. Yeah, yeah. But I've done that and it's just. It's really hard. First of all, relationships are incredibly hard. But I just gotta learn not to make them harder. You know? Yeah. But it's, they're just even saying what you mean

takes like excavation. Well, you got to really trust the other person to be able to say what you mean. And I'm. And that they can take it, that they can. I'm in a relationship now that I feel like I can tell her anything and we can talk it out and she's not going to punish me or run from me or, you know, because these are things that you think if I really tell her this or that

she's. That'll be the end. Yeah. You know, you get really catastrophic thinking. Yep. If somebody doesn't text you back, they've ghosted you. I'm okay with that.

Okay. You know, ghost me. No, well, of course, of course go fuck yourself. But I'm saying, are you scared that people are mad at you? The only time that I get worried about that is like if you send something where you think is funny but a little off color and then you don't hear

back you're like, I'm a monster. Yeah. Then I get worried. All right, that's what I'm a monster. Yeah. I then I get worried. All right. That's what I'm talking about. Right. Then I, I'll get worried. You know what? Fuck you ghost me.

You're a, you have a heart. I'm a, you don't be friends with me if you don't, if you can't take a little, go and ugly or act like I never want to like hurting one's feelings. Right. Yeah. I read an article or a book about anger and it said people that grew up the way you grew up, the way I grew up, have never seen things

peacefully resolved. Yeah. Because I've just never seen it. So if someone and I have a disagreement, it's, I'm immediately like, get my fucking glass, you know, my, my shiv. I'm going into the mosh pit, you know? And so to just say like, no, you can speak openly and honestly and with care and they can also.

And I'm assuming you're in the kind of relationship where the relationship is better off 25 minutes later than it was when you were. Oh yeah. When you weren't saying, cause you were afraid she's gonna. Yeah, it's just all the, it's just shit that's built up in you

that is not useful in your life. Yeah. And to be with someone that I trust so much and I can talk to and grew up in a great household where people talk things out peacefully. And she does. And so it's like, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. Does the thing happen where you say you'll, you'll, you'll inadvertently get into,

into combat language and she'll be like, no, you get into what? Like sort of combative language or combative. Like, like you're going into a bad habit zone and she can like, I don't get into mediate with your tone. I don't really like. We've never raised our voice to each other. Right.

You know, I just couldn't imagine. Or not even combative, just a bad habit of like. Yeah, the bad habit is just like. Saying something you're not saying something. Just shutting down. Yeah. And going quiet, right? Yep.

Uh. You feel sorry for yourself? Well, it's, it's, it was a, is a learned language from a past relationship and sulking, which I ended up adopting from that person, which is, I'm just, you know, I'm not just, but I realized like, I wasn't like that before I inherited that. And so it's good to like have those realizations. So you're like, okay, let that's not useful to you, you know, or where you're at now,

but you can inherit bad habits. Yeah. It's like, it's an emotional STD. It is. That's exactly what it is. Truly what it is. Like you pick up like, oh, I'm gonna, it, you, you, the American military always fights the last war.

Right. So in the, in, in, in Afghanistan, they're fighting Iraq from 1991. You know what I mean? Like they, so you're just going like, ah, this is how, this is the state of warfare, but it's old and doesn't even, and again, I'm thinking of it as war. Well, that's cause we grew up that way and it felt like, it's like a combat zone, which I look, I can't imagine what a real combat zone feels like, but,

you know. Yeah, emotionally, you you know. Yeah. Emotionally. You can understand. Um, you have a one here self-worth and then in parentheses old stuff. Yeah. I had a problem with self-worth. You see my stunts. At a certain point, do you realize with the stunts, like, this is a horrible way to get self-worth? Like, this is a,

this is a real, it's self-flagellation? Yeah, because the, the destroying myself was giving me self-esteem. Yeah. Right? And that's, that's a real hard circle to be caught up in. It's also a hard one to stop. Because you start out, you're doing these stunts and they get, you're not even realizing it, but they're getting bigger and bigger and injuries are piling up. Did you ever worry about death or was it just like, I'm going to need painkillers

or I'm going to break an arm or something? I would, about if it was a, a bigger, bigger stunt, you know, things pass through your mind, especially like a week before. That's when I would get a little worked up. But as I got closer to the stunt, I calmed down because I had to, because if you go into a big stunt and you're

working from a place of fear and you don't commit, you're really going to get fucked up. On the bigger things, you have to want to be there and want to do it. Would you train at all for them? That's the whole point. I don't want to know how to do these things. I'm doing these things for the first time.

Nobody wants me to see, nobody wants to see me do good at a stunt. That's not the goal. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I would never rehearse. I would just, I would tell Jeff when I get there, I'm like, if it's a big, big one, Jeff'm like, Jeff, just set the cameras up, get everyone ready, I'll be sitting in my car listening to music, and when you want me.

What kind of music are you listening to? A lot of my cousin's stuff, Roger Alan Wade. Was it to calm you down? Calm you down, what was it meant to do? Make me crazy, calm me down, make me sad, just make me feel a lot. Was it your stunt? Were they your ideas or would you not know what they were?

No, no, most of the time I'm writing my own stunts, especially the big ones, because it's tough to watch your friends do a dangerous stunt, especially if you just rode them into that. Yeah. So, but there are times, I guess, handful of times where people would give an idea to one of my bigger stunts, but most of the time it was mine.

It's a perfect metaphor for self-talk. Like you'll say things to yourself that you would never say to your friends. Yeah, I've written, I have a horrible thing that I'm willing to do it, because I'm a piece of shit. I would never have you do it. Yeah, yeah.

God, you're such a. I love you. Yeah, but me, fuck me. But I can't even think about loving myself. That's like, I don't have time for that. The worst. God. When do you, I don't have time for that. The worst. God. Uh, when do you, okay. So when, when you had the, I, would you have an idea of how to best approach it?

Like you're going into a bullring or whatever you go, they go down. I think if I, did you guys jump a car? Cause I'd heard about Spike jumping a car on the PCH in the 90s, inadvertently. Yeah, he's really situational. No, yeah, yeah, I heard that, from way before the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But would you have a plan of like, I think you'd imagine like, Well, specifically with the bull, you you kind of want to get above them as opposed to get under them. Right. And right before they hit you, they always drop their head. So I would always try to hop right before they hit me. So their head would hit my ass and 360 me in the air. And I thought that was safer than just, well, I know it was safer than just being under their hooves and horns. Yeah.

That's no fun. So that's what I would try to do. But then sometimes I come down on the back of my neck and get a concussion. But, you know, I'm here. So the self-worth thing at a certain point, did you just go, all right, it was ever a calculation of like, this is a bad way to get it, I need a new way to get self-worth.

Or did it just fill it up? You know, after like the concussion, the last one, I was like, I gotta really rethink. Sweet 16? I gotta really, yeah, sweet 16. Uh-huh. really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,

really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, you know, had a discussion with my kids. Look, I'm done with the big stunts. I know probably freaked you out and I'm sorry, but I'm done with that now because I wanted them to feel safe.

Did it freak them out? Were you aware of it freaking them out? They didn't say anything, but sometimes they would, my daughter would ask, my youngest would ask questions and what I'm doing today. And I could tell she was concerned. And my son kind of kept it in, but, uh, but they were happy to know that I wasn't.

So, yeah. And then that sort of resolved it. And then do you of resolved it. And then do you miss it? Whatever self-esteem you're getting or, or do you know what I mean? Like, or attention. What do you, do you feel like it's missing now? I mean, I'm going to say you're, you gotta be a pretty beloved guy. Like, meaning when people see you, I bet it's, you know, it's, it's every,

generally speaking, people are pretty happy to see you. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a great, that's great. It's a really nice feeling that, cause especially like, you know, when they're like, I grew up on you or I used to watch it with my father, or you know, those bonding moments, and to know that you had an effect on.

Yeah. I'm getting really soft in my older age. I do, I'm with you. Like two or three times on the podcast I've welled up. Yeah. What do you think? What do you think on this podcast or your podcast? No, no, no.

Just once on yours. Just then. I haven't done it three times on your podcast, Neil. No, so yeah, you just get. I get them. I just overcome with emotion. What do you think it is? I don't know.

Obviously, like the passage of time. I'm pretty empathetic. Yeah, as a guy. Yeah, and see that I've had an effect on someone. Yeah. It means something to me. What do you make of your life? I know it's a broad fucking question,

but what do you make of like, pretty, I mean, a lot of ways worked out pretty goddamn well. For where it started, like I'm pretty, like I was just, my son just asked me random questions sometimes in the pool yesterday, he's like. Right there. me random questions sometimes in the pool yesterday. He's like, right there in the pool, in the pool, right? Yeah. Right there.

Did you go with the pool? In ground pool. Not in above the ground pool. No, I didn't have a pool. So right there. We have the water hose. Yeah. You're in the pool.

You're in the in-ground built-in pool with your son. So right there. Already, you're already a victory-ground built-in pool. Yeah. With your son, so right there. Already a victory. Yeah, you consider yourself lucky? Me? No, that's what my son asked me. Oh, your son asked you? Yeah.

Sometimes he just comes out with random things. How old is he? He's 14. Yep. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

They've come from where I came from and they've come to town, not knowing anybody. Yeah. And to end up where I am, there's a lot of things I would have liked to have done differently, but I'm here now and doing things differently. I didn't say this to him, but I'm like, I'm, I couldn't really convey how lucky I am. Of course I also made my luck,

but I also, there was a lot of luck involved. A lot of good fortune. Yeah, which you can't account for and you don't know why it happened to you. Yeah, yeah, just, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I see, I've always seen you as like a writer who kind of made good, do you know what I mean? Like, I've always seen you as like a writer who kind of made good.

Do you know what I mean? Like I really do. Like I've always liked this, this is a guy who it was your idea. Do you know what I mean? Like not like you invented the whatever, but it was all your, it was a, it was a, it was foundationally yours. Well, I think. I mean, obviously there were people that came before you. Me, Jeff and Spike, that's ours.

Yeah, I shouldn't say specifically you. Yeah, but yeah, I had to make something happen for myself because no one else was going to make it happen for me. I had to do, I couldn't sit back and wait for a job. I had to create my job. Yeah. I still can't believe it worked out, you know? I can't either.

Not because it shouldn't have, it's one of those like, it works so well. And it was, the logo was right, the music was right, just so many things that were just like, oh, this is a perfect strike, this product or piece of art, whatever you wanna call it. Like it was breathtakingly well executed. Well, it means most is with friends, that we did it as friends.

It wasn't like the monkeys. You know. You guys weren't, yeah, they weren't like, we've got another guy from Pennsylvania. He's going to come. He's got that jackass spirit. Come on in son. And you're like, hello. It was our best guess at this.

Yeah. Which is all you got is your best guess. And a lot of times those don't work out but sometimes they do. You just got to keep hucking. Johnny Knoxville, thanks for doing it man. Thank you. Alright, my man All you have to do is open, open up your hand My man