Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Larry Wilmore

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Larry Wilmore (Nightly Show, Daily Show, Bernie Mac Show, Blackish, Insecure & much more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks.  ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 3:15 Dating, Marriage & Kids 7:30 Therapy by Proxy 8:26 Emotions 13:53 Providing 25:01 Sponsor: Mando 26:52 Sponsor: BetterHelp 28:00 God & Death 49:04 Sponsor: Rocket Money 50:24 Sponsor: Harry's 52:12 Procrastination & Messiness 1:04:15 Empath/Sociopath 1:17:08 Likes being alone 1:23:23 Health ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code [NEAL] at https://www.shopmando.com! #mandopod This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to https://www.RocketMoney.com/NEAL today. Get the shaving products that always deliver. Get Harry’s. Normally their trial set is $13 but right now you can get it for just $3 at harrys.com/NEAL. Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi guys, Neil Brennan, it's the Blacks Podcast. My guest today is a guy I've known a little bit for a long time. He's a performer and writer. You would know him from the nightly show in Comedy Central. And now he makes appearances on Bill Maher's show and he's got a podcast called Black on the Mic. Black on the Air. Black on the Air.

I'm freestyling this. Sound good. He was the creator of the PJs, which you haven't thought about in a while. The co-creator of, uh, Bernie Mac? Co-creator of the PJs, creator of the Bernie Mac show. Co-creator of Insecure. Great.

Helped launch Blackish, co-creator of Grownish. Roam produced first three seasons of The Office. Senior Black correspondent on The Daily Show, worked on many TV shows, all that kind of stuff. And arrogant about it. I'm kidding. Did Obama's last White House correspondence? Did he? That was good. Just got a note for the president saying that

if you want another drink you should order now because the bar will be closing down. Of course he said the same thing about Guantanamo so you have at least another eight years. So. Larry Wilmore is what I'm trying to say. Larry Wilmore is here. And I'm happy to have him.

You have your blocks which I'm happy you've cooperated you gave them to me You've seen the block special you understand what it's about Yeah, a lot of people could a lot of people big time me. They won't give me blocks really Yeah, they that was their blocks is they don't want to do blocks it Well, they just they don't want to they don't want to it seems like homeworking, but it's it makes it Yeah, it makes it more interesting Yeah, is that not fair play? Is that no just like Seth Meyers did I mean like a good friend? I knew his blocks anyway, but it was like he just didn't do the homework

Yeah, yeah, a guy who makes everyone do a pre-interview for his show. It's different when he's the guys Larry anyhow We're not here to slam so different when he's the guest Larry anyhow, we're not here to slam so So the thing that I wanted to talk to you about because I've known When you were doing the nightly show, I would hear from time to time that you're a little conservative Now you wouldn't as you said you're still considered a libtard By people by actual conservatives, right. I guess. Well, I think it's that arm of the people that just like to call names and react online and that type of thing.

When you meet people in person, it's different. I've always considered myself, the term I use was passionate centrist. And I always said half the time I disagree with myself. It's the way that I put it. Cause I always said, I have an opinion, but if the facts trump my opinion, then I have to drop my opinion and go with the fact Yeah, that's pretty much my fluss. I know I don't have an ideology. Most people don't yeah

There's something to be people think you need to be loyal to your own beliefs Or you it's like you have the merch like I bought all the shit I have I have all the arguments lined up and Whereas I think it's more interesting to just go like what do I actually feel about this, right? I think you know, I you start with a set of beliefs and Sometimes the world confirms that and sometimes it tells you something that you did not know That can either expand your beliefs. Can you Are there any that jumped to mind in your life that you weren't sure of and then you were like, oh.

I don't know if there's something that changed my mind, but there are things that have expanded the things that I thought of, like marriage and children. Marriage gave me a completely different idea of how companionship, even what companionship is. I really... What did you think it was and what did you... I had no idea. I was so...

It's the thing in my life I was the most clueless about. Everything else I've studied, you know, I've worked at, and that I was not prepared for by any means, you know. How was... Did you date a lot? Not really. I kind of did stand-up dating did you date a lot? Not really, I kinda did standup dating when I was a standup. Bring him to a show, get a drink afterward. Exactly, you know, you use your comedy.

Don't ask me how I know. You use your comedy power until it wears off. You also are, he's a king of the Magic Castle, you're an officer at the Magic Castle. I am, I'm actually vice president now of the Magic Castle. I perform there and that kind of stuff. Yeah, which is another way nerds control social situations exactly you may be more hostile It's how I dated a girl back in the day when I was my early days of stand-up She was really this really hot girl. She was working in the ticket booth, right?

Newport Beach laughs up that's kind of where I actually started I'll say my second start cuz I had to stop and start and stand up. What years? This is like 84, maybe. I had started a little earlier, but it was one of those things. Funny, I was listening to you talk with Carly. I had the exact same thing happen to me. I went up at the Comedy Store.

This is like 79, maybe, you know, did Open Mic Night. And I didn't have any stand up, you up, but I did like talent shows in school and that kind of stuff. And I did impressions and a few jokes are in there, but I had memorized like this rich little thing, not knowing that I couldn't memorize somebody else's thing, right? And so, but I had a lot of confidence and I went up

and I killed, you do three minutes as amateur night, you know, did great. And they said, oh, we'd like you to come back and do it for the I'm like yeah This is great. You know, yeah, I come back the next week. First of all, I was sick as a dog, right? I mean just had this flu and everything and it and you were like probably won't matter Exactly, but Neil it couldn't have been more it was opposite in every single way I remember it was just one of it but I mean it was the death of deaths. I have a Daily Show story about this too but where people

you know where people don't want to look at you. Yeah. They don't they don't want to get close to that death. That's what it's like. They don't even want to get it on. Whatever just happened they don't want it. It spooked me from doing it for a few years because I thought I can't do this. This is too hard. All right I want to get back to the campaign and shit thing. So you hadn't really dated, you didn't have, did you have girlfriends? Not really, I had maybe one during that time,

but she lived in Portland, I was in LA, and it was just crazy. How did you? There was no reason for me to be, for us to be together, it was just a mess. But I realized when I look back now, I had no interpersonal tools for a relationship. Because my parents were not a good example.

They divorced when I was young. My dad was very non-emotional, never showed my mom any emotion and stuff like that. My mom was over-emotional, that type of thing. Their relationship was very... It's just bizarre. And in fact, they divorced back then, but they're actually kind of still together now,

in a sense. That's how dysfunctional it is. It becomes functional after a while. I was like, yeah, they've been divorced, but they're still together. Exactly. So not that I can blame everything on them, but yeah. And then how did you, so you, you're...

I met girls through standup during those years. That was the way that I met women. And then how did you end up, how long did you date the woman who became your wife? So when I met her, I was frustrated with dating and everything. I was getting to my late twenties and I'm like, okay. In fact, I used to do a joke about it at the time.

I still remember I said, I've been looking for the right person. And then I started thinking, maybe I'm not the right person. Maybe I'm the wrong person. Maybe I have to start looking for the wrong girl. It's like, how did it go?

It was like, so what do you do? Lesbian? Yes. It was something like that. Where are you do, lesbian? Yes, you know, something like that. Where you from, prison? Yes, you know, it was that type of thing. But I remember you starting, I started doing jokes about being the wrong person and me, something wrong with me rather than the people. And I remember my roommate at the time,

do you know Bobby Gaylord? Did you ever know Bobby? He was a standup. He, when we moved in together, he was going through a divorce and he was going to therapy a lot. And he would come home, I would ask him about therapy, and he would share his therapy sessions. So I was kind of getting therapy by proxy a little bit.

Like I was learning all these things. Like things said, but I think that applies to me. Thank you, Bobby, I'm gonna give you $5. I had zero money for those types of things. Right, no, it was awesome. And I actually learned a lot in the couple of years he was going to. God damn, that's funny.

Isn't that great? I think that's what podcasts are for now. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Serves the same purpose. No, you're absolutely right. And so I realized, and it was funny, I think the acting classes I was taking at the time, too, helped me turn inward.

And one of the things, I wrote down something, empath on there, sociopath is one of it. One of the things I had realized during that time, it was very difficult for me to have my own emotions, to be okay with them. My parents had split when I was a teenager, and it was one of those things, this was an old saying that people used to say,

you're the man of the house now, that type of thing. And it's like, fuck, you know, that puts a lot of emotional pressure on you. And I think my emotions shut down then because I had to take care of my mom who was going through a tough time. She had- With the divorce or other stuff.

Yeah, she's had emotional breakdowns, things like that. It was just really tough on her. You know, there were six of us and I had two older sisters, but they were like into drugs and just into trouble. And I was like de facto the oldest. So I felt a lot of weight on my shoulders.

So I always say I kind of ended my childhood, maybe at 15 and just was more put my feelings aside, and I realized that in my 20s, like I could not get angry and things like that, and I couldn't, I didn't have permission for a lot of my feelings and stuff, you know. That's interesting that even, because men can have very little access to emotions

except anger, in my experience. So you didn't have that. No. You weren't even clear. It was difficult. You didn't have clearance for anger. No, I didn't have permission for it. Yeah.

Yeah. For my own anger. I could be anger in someone else's behalf maybe. Okay. But for my own, there's a distinction between them, which is interesting. So would you just sort of go numb in situations where you should have been anger? I was too, but when I say empath,

I was too understanding of what happened of that person. Ah. Because I was trained to understand somebody's in trouble, somebody's's hurting my thing doesn't count What's happening over here? So is that what your mother modeled or she actually? No, no, no, I did this all on my own. She did she did not ask for that or model that okay She's not to blame for that. This was me trying to help. Yeah, you know when I look back at it now I didn't know it at the time. You grow up Christian or anything else Catholic. Yeah

I mean, I I think that's a big part of it. Sacrificial. Yeah, I really do. I'm the father of a nun. I was gonna Google yesterday, am I my brother's keeper? Yeah. The Bible says about, I am, right? You absolutely are.

Because I find myself being sort of nosy and kind of like trying to help, and then people don't really like it. And I don't think it's helpful long term, maybe. Well, the thing that is positive for me is if I view my life as a life of service, then that's helpful, you know? Because you can never fill that pot.

You can always give something. Even when I give people advice in show business, I said don't look at show business as something you can get something out of. Look at something you can put something into. Make a contribution to it. Put something there that hasn't been there, you know? And if you operate like that,

it's more of a creative way to exist in the business rather than I'm not getting one out of it. You know, it's a little more selfish way and that's trans, it's very transactional. And it does, sometimes it works, but it can be very frustrating, you know. That's interesting. So you didn't really know how to have emotions.

I didn't, I couldn't have. All right, now the question is like, now would you be autistic? Would you be considered autistic, do you think? It's possible I could have been on the spectrum. You know, my son is, he has Asperger's, you's possible, I could have been on the spectrum. My son has Asperger's. I think my dad is on the spectrum. I really do.

I like how everyone around you is on the spectrum, except you. Well, I said I might be. Yeah, I know. I might be, yeah. But they definitely are, or that's your diagnosis? Well, my dad's never been diagnosed, he would never admit it.

I think it's possible that he is. My son was diagnosed and he is. I would be a very high functioning. Sure, I think a lot of them are. I'm on the spectrum, I took the test, I'm the lowest rung, but I'm on it. So I don't have, there was some of the social things I might have, but I also, I played a lot of sports, I was involved in theater, so I did socialize.

I wasn't, like I wasn't a self-player type thing, even though I did do a lot of that too. You know, but it wasn't until, so it was a combination of acting classes, therapy by proxy, that I started having permission to have my own emotions. The acting class actually helped a lot, because you had to, you had to emote

and that kind of stuff too. Yeah, and you kind of go, I remember taking acting classes and you're like, oh, I've never, I don't think I've ever felt this myself. Yeah, yeah. But like, interesting, okay. Right, to really tap into how you really feel about something and that kind of stuff.

So I really grew as a person during that and it was after that I was able to attract, you know, the woman who became my wife. So I think I had to go through that. I think you have to be the right person to attract the right who became my wife. So I think I had to go through that. I think you have to be the right person to attract the right person. Going back to my standup idea. I think you're gonna attract the version of yourself

that's gonna push all the buttons. And if you're in the frail button pushing mode, that's not gonna be good. Because you gotta pick that person anyway. The version of yourself that's gonna push their buttons? No, you will always pick the person who's good at pushing your buttons Oh, you're always yes do that. Yeah, but if you have a proper relationship with those buttons You're in a better place for in a what were your person who will push them responsibly?

What were your buttons or or without you reacting? I think that's another big one It's like yeah, you what were your buttons or feeling threatened's like, you, what were your buttons? Or feeling threatened, right. Yeah, what were your buttons? Um, I never really thought of it, but looking back, I think, um, providing was a button. You know, if you feel like you're not providing, that goes back to earlier, or not taking care of. So...

Like, for falling short in that arena. So, was it like like you should plan dates, you should be more considerate, you should be. I can't, I don't know how it manifests itself. When I look back at it. But anything, that's the thing that was triggered. Now it could be something unrelated that could actually trigger that.

You know, like one of our big fights when we were married was my wife was very successful as an actor when she was young and she really wanted And one of our big fights when we were married was, my wife was very successful as an actor when she was young and she really wanted to be a mom and she didn't want to work full time, she wanted to be at home a lot. And I said, hey, I'm for whatever you want to do. You want to work? We'll figure it out.

And she said, no, I really want to be a mom most of the time. And she did a lot of voiceover work and that kind of stuff. But I think a lot of resentment build because that's really hard work. Being a mom? Oh, being with kids all the time. It's punitive and relentless.

It's completely, you know. And it really, that pushed a lot of her buttons. I used to do this joke, this one. I have some jokes that I never really did stand-up, but they were my favorite jokes Oh, yeah, and I just kept them in places. Here's one of them never did this in stand-up. Okay, this is it So I said when you're you know, when you meet somebody you going out with somebody everybody has baggage, right? Yeah, no one's for it. It's just that most of the time all you have is carry-on baggage. Mm-hmm You know when you date somebody that's all you have and you look and you go. Oh, they have carry-on. That's not so bad. I can do with that, you know backpack. Yeah

I got a computer bag. I got nothing but that's all you have is care when you get married though That's when you first go to baggage claim And you go. Oh, I didn't know you that yeah, where did this bag come from? Yeah, you know all these bags start popping up that you know,'t know. And so then, so you have to go through that. And then when you have kids, that's when your loss of luggage is delivered to your house. These are bags you didn't even know. You had completely forgotten that you packed.

So children, they unearth all the issues you didn't even know that you had, you know. And so, she resented, she resented me out in the world getting praise and all this stuff, because I was getting a lot of success during that time. I was winning awards.

Nineties. Yeah, a lot of stuff was happening. And she was mainly at home doing that. And she even admitted there was a lot of resentment. And she would say she wanted an equal partner. And I'm like, equal partner? Who's paying for these trips? You know, I do my thing and man that triggered me when I look back that I was accused of not doing my job as a provider

Yeah, but she was asking for something else that I couldn't hear at the time. What was it? She needed help in this arena where she did not feel seen in taking the kids Is that is there a way do you think you could have handled it with praise or do you think you needed to do more? No, you had to show up. And there's ways of showing up that I could have done better, but I just, I was exhausted and overwhelmed at the time too,

but for other reasons. But I missed my, one of my biggest regret. Because of your magic, the magic you were doing at the Magic Castle. But one of my biggest regret about those years is I wish I just had more respect for how hard the things she was going through really was. Yeah.

Like how tough it really was on her psyche. Yeah. And I tried my best, tried my best to be supportive and everything, but it was just deeper than that. And she's a great person and all that stuff. And we worked on our marriage for a long time. But even when you work on it, you can intellectually work on something, but some things, they just work against you.

Some of those dynamics are tough to overcome. That's what I'm wondering is, because I don't know how most people do it in terms of, so you're working your high-epid shows or created shows, you're working 12 hours a day probably. Yeah, 14 sometimes. Yeah, 14. You know how that is.

And then you get home, and then, you know what I mean? Like, what's the solution? Would you, did you get a nanny? Could a nanny have helped? We had help, absolutely, but it was still a lot. We had a nanny, she also cooked and everything. We had grandparents nearby. But I think it was more of what it did to her

for her identity, and she was very dedicated too. So it's not like she could just hand the kids off. She spent a lot of quality time with the kids. And she worked too, you know. She did voice-over work and that kind of stuff. So it's not like, so that's not quite the solution. It really is, what it is is that sometimes people just need to feel that you're with them

in a different way that you're not quite doing. You know. So you feel like you would give them in a different way that you're not quite doing. You know? So you feel like you would give it lip service, but it's hard to... I just didn't relate to it, because I thought I was doing my part and she was doing hers. Yeah.

I thought we were each doing our parts, but she required something different than I required. I didn't require approving of anything. I gotta say, I don't love being accused of being a bad partner. I'm not that big a fan, especially when you were working 14 hours a day. Yes, exactly.

And you're like, still? No, it's a big trigger. Big trigger. That didn't do it? That was a big trigger. So that was your sort of, that was a thing you had no concept of, and now you said you have a girlfriend that your wife doesn't know about.

No, she knows about it, she's ex-wife. No, good. Ex-wife now, but so you have a girlfriend, what have you, how are you a better partner now? Well, I know these things now. Our communication is really good. There's some areas where, you know, of course in any relationship, she's very private.

So I have to be mindful of the things I say right now. She doesn't like her business out in the street, but she's great. You know, she's very sensitive. I'm not gonna compare the two. Everybody's different, you know, but I think I'm just in a better place right now to be open to something that you don't know that comes up

and then you deal with that. Not defensive, not. Yeah, even if you're defensive at first, to get over it and then move on, not to hold onto that. Because it's okay, look, there's nothing wrong with those feelings at first, you just have to move past them, if you hold onto it, that's the problem. Because we all have triggers that are not gonna go away. Yeah, you just have to. You have to be in a good move past them. If you hold on to it, that's the problem. Because we all have triggers that are not going to go away.

Yeah, you just have to be in a good relationship with them. All I'm working on is getting through it faster. Yeah, exactly. And it is faster. I'll tell you, it's three times faster than it was. Still pretty slow. But that's pretty good. Yeah, no, I'm improving.

But it's like a guy who's, you know. What's your biggest relationship issue that alienates you? I think that the thing of not, of taking criticism, I don't take it well. Yeah. Because I think it's, I always think like, so all, you're basically throwing away all of my behavior and bringing me up on charges for this. And it's like, I feel like it's disrespectful

to the good stuff. Yeah, criticism's tough. Yeah. I'm not good at it either. Because I have also been arguing sort of like, I mean, I have a whole theory about like, don't give each other notes. I genuinely will not give her notes. I will not give her improvements. I will not give her arguing sort of like, I mean, I have a whole theory about like, don't give each other notes. I genuinely will not give her notes.

I will not give her improvements. I will not give her, it's like, just as is. It's a restaurant with no substitutions. That's the feeling. It's like, you like it? Cool. Is it bearable? Are the bad parts bearable?

Cause I don't, I didn't get in a relationship to change. I got a relationship to enjoy myself. Right. And men and women to enjoy myself. So. Right. And men and women, they both have time machines when they start relationships. But women's time machine relationship is they want to take you forward through time. So they move that lever, you know, and say, oh, maybe we'll have kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A guy, when they have a time machine, they want to, they break the time machine because they want time to stand still. Yeah. So they'll hide the lever, which is it. Close the doors. Right, but I don't- But they're both time machines. One is frozen.

She knows I don't want kids. She has kids, so I'm like involved there. How old are her kids? Four. He's one. It's one child and he's four. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's young.

So there's the- Good job, daddy. Yep. And so- He's forgotten his old job Danny. Yep. And so... He's forgotten his old Danny already. Forget it. So I guess that's the thing I don't do well with and is criticism because it just feels like,

I'm good, I'm good, stop it, this is good. Stop, and I, so I am in favor of breaking the time machine. Because there is no, we're not moving toward anything. Right. It's, I'm not doing that I'm not we're not I'm not gonna get so Right, I'll help you with yourself. Are you gonna get married? Hmm, it's not that meaningful. Nope never been meaningful to me, right?

So because marriage to you, but I'm totally committed. I just think it's fake security. It's like TSA. What if it's security to the other person? It's TSA. It's fake security. But what if it's fake security to you, but real security to someone else? It's never going to be real security. It's not real security.

But what if it's real to them? I don't care what you perceive. I can prove to you it's not real security. All I have to do is call a lawyer and it's over. So that's not real security. And you would have to pay something called out. Right, but I would have a prenup. Right. So there is no security in a Neil Brennan relationship. You ain't get it. No, there is security in that I'm committed to you, but I don't need the government's help. Okay. Or lawyers. Do you find any value in saying vows in front of people?

No, I don't. I understand how it, as a Catholic, I understand guilt and I understand shame. But I don't. Societal pressure. Yeah, I don't do well with, I mean the blocks was about like all these things I'm supposed to do that I cannot do.

I'm not good at them. Did you grow up Catholic? Did you say? Oh yeah. 12 years, altar boy. Oh yeah, we did the same thing. Yeah, so I get the, I'm very familiar with, with institutional pressure.

I mean marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church. At least, thank God. So I get what it is, I just don't think it's worth anything. In and of itself. I get that it's insurance. If you have a kid with somebody, you've absolutely, they deserve protection. Yeah, I agree with that.

But I don't, I'm not gonna, so it's like, I don't need this thing of like, well I've done well, so then if we get divorced, you get, it doesn't make any sense to me, and you can't make it make sense. People try. I've done well. So then if we get divorced, you get happy. It's like, it doesn't make any sense to me. And you can't make it make sense. People try it. No, I know you wouldn't try it, but others have tried it. Yeah.

What other? I'm on the Neil train. Oh yeah, you have a girlfriend for seven years. So you get it. You know guys, spring is in the air. The weather's warming up and I'm most looking forward to taking longer walks in a nice t-shirt like I'm doing right now.

LA doesn't get cold, but it gets a little cold, you know what I mean? And once it warms up a little bit, I'm talking about like a dusk walk, you know, where you don't have to wear a jacket. You feel like you did something right in life. And I'm looking forward to it even more because I've started using Mando whole body deodorant.

I haven't even started. I've been using it. Unlike other deodorants I've tried, it can actually handle anything. I'm mostly a Mando in the pits guy, occasionally on the back a little bit, but you know, the thing I like about Mando doesn't stain the t-shirt and it lasts all day. I've told this story before. I switched to a different deodorant. I ran out of Mando.

Now they still have a target by the way I'm like proud of them and it's just it's just a solid deodorant. It's a little fresh I like Mount Fuji. Of course, everybody knows that it's a it's a great deodorant The whole body deodorant is safe to use anywhere on your body and I mean ding anywhere pits wherever you're gonna do it? It's all safe and uh but where are we gonna do? Mando's Starter Pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice like Mini Body Wash and deodorant wipes which you know I've used and free shipping. As a special offer for listeners, new customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive

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helped me understand codependence, helped me with pretty much every female relationship I've ever had, a lot of writing partnerships I've had. You can just, you'll get, you're never gonna get worse. You know what I mean? I've never left midlife, what a waste of time. It's not just for people who've experienced trauma. Here's the thing about BetterHelp.

With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform having served over 5 million people globally. It's a lot of people. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus switch therapists at any time. Here's the call to action. It's mandatory. I'm going to read it verbatim. Your well-being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com slash NEAL today to get 10% off your first month. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash NEAL. Better Help. What other unpopular opinions or things that you didn't know or things you've changed your mind about? Maybe God.

Go, I'm interested, because I have also. So I grew up Catholic, I was ultra-boy, just like you. I had a very firm in my mind understanding that not only did a God exist, but kind of an idea that he existed within the framework of the religion that I was inside of. Old man, white, whatever those are. Clouds. idea that he existed within the framework of the religion that I was yes that I was old man Yeah, why yeah, yeah clouds

And even Catholicism, it's kind of convoluted. There's there's three of them worst story. I know there's three persons But it's like I was in church the other I literally mama I went to church mama and like it was like this is the most Convoluted storytelling I've ever fucking heard no The fact that they call it the greatest story ever told, it's like, guys, this isn't even in the top thousand. Yeah, and the fact that modern Christianity is really built on cannibalism. I mean, every week is like the body of Christ going into your mouth.

Incredibly bizarre, yes. And it's not, by the way, it's not symbolic of his body. No symbol is it's been transmuted It's not there is no matter for the ideas. You are actually eating the actual body of Christ So it really is I'm not even a joke. Yeah, actually is cannibalism. Yep. Yeah, correct That's pretty crazy. It's one of the many things. It's bananas about transubstantiation. That's there you go. Yeah The another very convoluted term that's unnecessary. They didn't need to, did you, so what, so that was your, so then you fell out?

No, I was, I would call it agnostic for a while. I was kind of searching. I went to Protestant church for a while. I had a, when I was doing standup, I had a manager. She was very, you know, that Christian, you know, where they wanna, you know, sign people up type of stuff. So I went to her church for a while, really nice people and stuff, but it wasn't quite for me.

And so I stopped going and then when I met my wife, she was very Catholic, she comes from a very Catholic family. And so I started going again and I thought, you know, once we had kids, I thought, well, it's good for me to go because it's good to give the kids something and then they can make up their own minds you know do you still believe that that that they need a moral framework from a from a religious organization I think there's value in it yes I think more value than not yes correct fine cuz I wonder well then good luck choosing where they get their

moral framework, you know Well, I've spoken to people that didn't grow up religious and they were like, yeah You just get a moral framework from like your parents and the world. Good luck having the right parents. Okay Right, you know, but you don't have to necessarily count on the right parents if there's a framework that enough people agree on right? Yeah, so and you may have to get lucky with that, who knows? It may be a horrible religion that gives you a bad frame. I don't know. But I think at the right time,

they can make up their own mind about things just like I did, because I'm not gonna pressure them with that sort of thing. But when they're young, they can grow up in it. So I went to church faithfully during all that time. And then once they were older and stuff, it stopped going so much. And then something happened to me. This was, this was the moment

that happened because I'll never forget, you know, where I remember having discussions with people about it and arguing back and forth and all that kind of stuff and still feeling that I was kind of agnostic. And I had Neil deGrasse Tyson's on my podcast and I was asking him questions about everything. And, and I'm kind of a contrarian sometimes. This is fairly recently then. No, this was back in 2016. That's not, I mean, yeah. No, 2018. 2018, I mean.

Yeah, fairly recently. And I asked him that question about, I said, what is life? Like, what happens when you die? Because I've always been obsessed with death a little bit too. And he broke it down in such a granular molecular way that it just fucked with me you know and I was like fuck you know it you're right I mean that's that's

really what happens that is you are absolutely right that's what I'm I think keep saying that but I remembered fucking with me for days and I'll just never forget that feeling and and then I just started thinking of God differently. What was the, what's the short version of what he said? Well, he just explained life on a very molecular level, like matter just deteriorates and turns into this and then molecules to this. He just said it very coldly of what actually happens.

And you're trained to think spiritually and that type of stuff and then the soul, all that stuff. And then when I thought of it actually happens, you know. And you know, you're trained to think spiritually and that type of stuff, and then the soul, all that stuff. And then when I thought of it like that, I was like, wow. You know, I had to, it just really hit me in a way where, it's not like that was a new information. I think it just hit me at that time in a way that I wasn't counting on. And it made you believe in God more.

No, it, I wouldn't say on. And it made you believe in God more? No. I wouldn't say I became an atheist, but I kind of... Your agnosticism got stronger. Yes, that's what I would say. I always said I'll take Pascal's wager, and that sort of thing. But because even if you're an atheist, you're believing in something.

You're sure about something. In that case, you're sure about the non-existence. So I'm more agnostic. I don't know. Shows up, good on you. But right now, probably not gonna happen. All right, well the question I was, because I went kind of the opposite way

where I was agnostic atheist, and then I took ayahuasca and sort of experienced the God, right? And I haven't been able to shake it in a good way. Okay, will you say that again? I experienced a God or a central creation force or a interconnectedness that I have in a drug experience, ayahuasca and DMT and MDMA and I have not, and mushrooms, and I have not, it has not faded.

How long ago is that? The first one was four years ago. Oh, so very recently. So why do you equate that feeling, why does that equal to a god thing? As opposed to just a hyper sense? It was a feeling of a God. It was a feeling of a central creation force. What is a God feeling?

Something turned this on. And I felt connected to it. To the spirit of... Something that wasn't yourself. Yes, that was something some force there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I don't I couldn't sell anybody on it because it's something I experienced So and I don't need you to not eat meat or I don't need any well, that's a religious thing. Yeah Does it make you feel more? Spiritual it makes me entire It's the only I and I had this experience and then I I watched an interview with sting

He did iowasca and he said this is the only genuine religious experience i've ever had Yeah, it was like I hadn't had one he grew up some kind of I think christian brought up catholic and then I He grew up some kind of, I think, Christian. I'm brought up Catholic. And then I, oh, this is, it was basically like, oh, this is what they said church was. I actually experienced it. Right. And I've heard people say like, the body of Christ is,

I want like, it's based in that and tribal and da da da da. It's got a 10, it's got 10 different precursors right whatever but yeah Christianity bird kept catholicism but the only spiritual experience I've ever had and it's been continuous and it it makes it change my life but it's not I don't proselytize I don't it's just like change my experience right but it I don't and it doesn't translate to a religion or to there's no Personification of it now. There's no it's not organized. It's not I don't need it's a thing It's yeah, it's a it's a it's an experience and a thing. I think I feel sure So I get it. So part of what I came I remember reading the book

So part of what I can't I remember reading the book Sapiens, which is another big influence on some of my thinking on this One of the things that was real fascinating about that book was the idea of what a myth is, you know And how the best one being money. Yes in that book. It's fantastic money, no, it's just a thing we all agree to. Yes, I was just gonna say that. The fact that we're all agreeing to something and the power of that, and it's why you can have groups and larger groups, right, with myths.

But when I was thinking about religion, and what I felt is one of the true reasons for having a God, let's say, because religion goes back so far. In fact, one of the first things was the sun. People just worship the sun just because it created life, which they're not wrong. That's true.

Take nothing away from the sun. But when outside of pure idolatry of something that's doing something and you're thinking it, which is one type of religious activity which I think is the first type. The advancement of that was that I am not just a corporal being that I have a place after this, right? That's an advancement in religion. The Egyptians are the most famous for that first which is why they built the month, you

know, all that stuff, right? The idea of an after party. Yes, exactly. Exactly. why they built them up, you know, all that stuff, right? The idea of an after party. Yes, exactly, exactly. Now to me, so I feel that that primarily has been invented because humans are one of the, I'll say rare animals, because I don't know if other animals can do this, but we can actually reflect.

We can do more than think, we can actually reflect. We haven't seen other animals do that. Maybe dolphins can, you know, it looks like dogs But You know, we don't just act by instinct, you know, we actually we have a lot of time our hands Yeah, even to our brains have developed to that part and One of the most dire reflections is death. Yes Okay, so animals act out of instinct

because they're trying to avoid death. Their body knows how dire death is, and they try to avoid it at all costs, by eating, by killing, by all these things. But we can actually ruminate on the darkness of what death really is and how much despair. There's so much despair in the idea of not being here at all.

Yeah, not existing, yeah. That you almost have to create a way out of that. You'd be a fool not to. Why would you not? Exactly, so that makes complete sense to me that an afterlife would be created to deal with the despair of thinking, not only are you not gonna be here,

you've only been here since you came out of that world. Like there's a short amount of time when you are a conscious being and you're just gone. You're just wiped out. Yeah, it's like the death row conversion. It's like, wow, so you're gonna die in an hour and you just realize you're gonna die. So now you're interested, I find myself where I'm like,

I am getting older, maybe it's just pure self interest. Or people that stop getting hired in showbiz and go like showbiz is stupid and shallow. Yeah, that's the thing is I'm entirely comfortable admitting that that may be it. Yeah. And I don't really, all I can say for myself is it's not cool,

like believing in something, like there's not, no one thinks I'm cooler because of it. Yeah, that's funny. Like there's not, there is self, there is a self interest of like, yeah, I'm not, when I die, I don't die. Yeah. But yeah, I don't, there's no way for me to,

there's no code of behavior that I need to follow in order to get there or any of that. Because that's the other thing where you go like, oh, this is manmade. Yeah, and I'm not the spiritual cop nor do I have spiritual envy. Like I don't have food envy. Like somebody's eating something,

I care, let's eat what you want. You know, but some people are like, you're gonna eat that? You eat meat or this? You gotta be a cop. Who the fuck gave you permission? Yeah. So so it doesn't threaten me if somebody believes in something, nor do I feel like I have to convince somebody of something. Yeah. For me, it's just kind of an observation that I have.

But I still leave room open to be wrong, like I do with everything. Yeah. But I find it fascinating that and now so I have a different relationship with the afterlife than I had before, I guess is the short term. So before, I was certain there was an afterlife, certain. Even as an agnostic or? I felt there was a good possibility, like I felt if anything could explain the phenomena of ghosts, you know?

Right, which, okay, so you do believe in ghosts. Which some of that is like, you know, is ridiculous, but there believe in that is like you know is ridiculous But there's some things that might have some meaning to it of maybe You know seeing something or yeah or something maybe have you had any experiences? I've had different things That are unexplainable. I can't remember if there be any visionary things, but I've found explainable events for sure But so that's what I say I have room for those types of things or whatever you know they're even the whole idea of the communion of consciousness I guess you could say or whatever you know where there's a certain consciousness is not just culture which has been passed down but kind of a consciousness which has

been passed down I mean that was a theory where you know people feel they can Tap into to that or something like that or yeah people inventing things at the same in like the same I call that clustering. I firmly believe in that cluster Yes, people that couldn't possibly that weren't connected amazing before the world was connected people inventing things I mean, you know what happens in comedy too. Absolutely. Where somebody will think of a bit and then, I thought of a bit, I tweeted it, and then somebody had tweeted it the day before,

someone I didn't follow, somebody, it was just like, they accused me of stealing and it was like. Look at the Renaissance, the Renaissance had all those great painters at that same time in that part of the world. Yeah. And music and all that kind of stuff. So it happens in science. It happens in art I've always called that clustering, you know where there's a shared kind of Consciousness that happens like if the Wright brothers had not have been in flight. I mean in France they were doing the same thing There were a couple guys in France doing the same thing, so it would have happened around the same time.

Maybe it could have been. And do you take, is that, would that be part of the, maybe there's something to a God or a spirit world? Maybe something more of a spirit or like energy thing that you're talking about, you know, because there are a lot of physical laws that we are not aware of yet. I know, yeah. Most, in fact, that we are not aware of yet. I know, yeah.

Most, in fact, most we're not aware of. So let's say if we think about our thoughts really are a collection of electrical impulses that are in a vehicle that has ability to store those electrical impulses and allows us to continue talking and remember things and all that kind of stuff too. Well, if they are electrical, we know that, you know, we've seen the way impulses can

travel through the air and be connected to things because we've seen that. We've invented radio, we've invented telegram, you know, all that kind of stuff. So maybe there is a way that things are connected in ways that we can't see that are on, I don't know, different physical level that we don't know. Like, I insist that everything's connected just because everything has molecules in it and atoms, right? So when you think about it, like, I'm really touching you right now

because everything's connected, you know? Well, that's what I was gonna ask is the, do you... Do you believe that science is deciphering God? No. Okay. I don't believe that right now deciphering God. No. Okay. I don't believe that right now, but I've heard arguments for that and I have no problem with that argument.

I feel that what science does for us is a way to understand the universe and understand how systems work, but for me, I don't think it's deciphering God, no. If something was gonna decipher God, I think that would be the role of religion. I actually totally disagree. Like it's got a scientist?

I totally disagree with that. That part I completely, cause I don't think religion, religion to me is a way of honoring God. I think it's all silly, but like it's as if God needs whatever. Like God's very insecure and you need to speak well of it's like silly Or people make God their butler, you know saying yeah

Invented the car you fucking asshole so Yeah, but the so I don't find religion to be almost it's almost completely not related to God to me in a way It's almost completely not related to God to me in a way With my question is the opposite to be honest with you, you know, but it's Yeah, I mean I I know what they mean, but I'm Inclined to think that it is deciphering nature's nature is God and it's deciphering whatever sure Did your life get better as a result or worse or push but saying nature is God is making a different statement

Then having got as a separate entity than nature because you either believe God invented nature, which means God is not nature God actually created nature. Well, I guess you don't really need God because you already have nature It's all one thing right, but you don't need God if you already have nature if it's one thing if there's no distinction Why do you need God for you already have nature? it's one thing if there's no distinction Why do you need God for you already have nature like I was I didn't make the distinction they say It's hot in here. I think it's human. Well, it's pick you pick your lane here I don't think I think it's all one thing. Yeah, it's it's red like you're God. I'm God That's good. It's all God if that it's whatever, right? It's it's it's beyond esoteric. But um, so did your life get better worse or push from going from agnostic?

No, there was no I have a set of values that I live by the guide my life More so than what I believe in is true out in the universe How much of its informed by Catholicism, do you think? Oh, a lot. And are you okay with that? Absolutely. Yeah, because there is something to be said for like, it is, obviously parts of it are so meaningless,

useless and just like. You can make fun of the Ten Commandments, but there's a lot of good things in the Ten Commandments. Yeah, exactly, like eight of them are something. And both of those ten commandments, but there's a lot of good things Yeah, exactly like eight of them are and some of those are true. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely material for jokes Absolutely sure and at the same time there's a lot of good stuff really good stuff that Jesus said and there's a lot of stuff That's right for jokes. Yeah. Yeah, those things are true. Okay, so that's I'm that's very interesting that you've you've gotten less

less Faith based or whatever. Well, I gotten less less faith-based or whatever well I don't know faith-based or or the the actual belief in that being you know is it necessary for me you know yeah right does that not contradict your moral framework for children now because those are rules that are religious based. Now if your only reasoning for doing that is to please God, then that's the connection that you have. And so once you get rid of that, you say,

well I don't have to please God anymore. If that's how you're viewing it, then fine. But if you have a framework for living that is a solid framework, well why would I abandon that? know yeah and you are it is not based on pleasing out it's just like I don't know it's just not being an asshole well also could the way the Catholicism was always different for me from Protestantism it's like I always felt like Protestantism you were going to get something from God you know that same type of thing you know sitting in the views I hope the preacher has a good

message for me today you know but Catholicism is all about service, you know, you know, it's so service oriented That's one of the things I've always liked about it You know, in fact a lot of the activities of the church around the world are based in service. Have you ever Like you're taking the attention off yourself sure, you know, have you ever overly have you ever Like you're taking the attention off of yourself. Sure, have you ever overly, have you ever been, have you ever abandoned yourself in a way that you regret in service of others? I wouldn't say in service of others,

but it's part of that period I was talking about where I had forsook myself for so long in terms of what my real emotional needs were and expression and all that stuff. And the learning of that was a huge big deal for me. So it wasn't explicit as doing it in that way. But I've never done it in a practical way like that were, you know,

in the way that I think that you're asking. Well, no, I've just done it. I mean, I think women probably do it more than men, but the service Yeah, all service all the time. Yeah, and then you end up Kind of fucking yourself and you abandon yourself and you end up very bill resentment. Yeah Or just be more martyr yourself or whatever. Let's do some actual blocks and not just the ones I threw out You know you sign up for something you forget about it after the trial period ends

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Well, all right. What was the- You've got procrastination and messiness. They're definitely related. So what's the downside of messiness? Because I'm pretty messy, but I don't lose anything for the most part I don't and I'm a bit of a poor craft in there but everything's been turned in on time ultimately well I think people like me who I'm not big messy but it can start to get bad and you know then I'll you know correct or

whatever but I'm usually attracted to someone that's the opposite you know you know You know, and so that's a problem, you know, and so that can push my... That's you being the wrong person again. Exactly, you know, that's exactly right. But is cleanliness... Because their cleaning up is not wrong, but mine being messy is, you know. But is it... You're not doing it against them. This is actually one of my issues with my girlfriend, which is like the things that I am,

I was before I met you. This isn't at you, I'm just this. It's not as a, I'm not doing it to like spite you, I'm just doing it. My ex-wife was the extreme of this, and I remember, this is how bad she was, and so I'm not exaggerating, I put in, there was a newspaper on our coffee table,

and she said, the living room's a mess. I'm like, the living room's a mess? Like, there's a, the newspaper's on the coffee table, that's it. I said, are you afraid, what are you afraid of? And I don't know if she said this or I'm making it up, she said this, that people are gonna come by and see that. I'm like, people are gonna come by and see that people

live here is what they're gonna think. I would all, I do say to an accent. But there was the judgment attached to it that you're gonna be exposed for being messy to I used yell at a girlfriend that she seemed to be afraid that a a Group of gay jurors was gonna come exactly and judge her. That's the feeling Like they're never coming right? They're not coming and I would say have a seat, you know Yeah, hey, yeah, this is a new paper. I drop it sometimes.

Have you read the paper yet? Yes, I guess that's bad. The church thinks you're all sinners. Yeah, and here's the flip side of it though. Because my parents are more extreme, my father is a bit of a hoarder. I'm afraid of, I don't want that to happen to me. And my mother, she's not as bad as my dad,

but I see their behavior sometimes as sadness personified, you know, or like unhappiness personified, the mess. You know, mess here, mess there. And so that thing makes me not like that, you know. So I do, I don't, I would rather not be messy, you know. So I do, you know, I just, I'm not that all the way, but I'm messy for a while and then I'll clean.

Well, clean is not the right word because it's not like it's dirty, but it's like I'll put things in the right place or have someone to help me do that. But I don't mind my office being a mess because as you say, you know where it is. It doesn't hurt my feelings.

That's the other thing. We don't really see it that way Because it doesn't affect us emotionally. So women are affected by spaces emotionally. Oh my they they they they Anthropomorphize spaces. I believe I really believe that I really believe that women interpret physical spaces as they interpreted as a person Yeah, that's interesting. And I just don't as a guy I don't See it after about a week. I just see like the couch Right and the bed and the TV. Yeah, and the nightstand. It's very stereotypical, but like I genuinely believe that yeah Cuz they're very affected by it and I just don't I guess if I'm like if I say it like a

Crappy motel. I am affected by it and I just don't, I guess if I'm like, if I say it like a crappy motel, I am affected by that. But I think that has to do with safety. That's someone else's stuff too, yeah. Yeah, it's been a lot of people's stuff and a lot of people and they haven't treated well. And it's also dangerous, like where you can hear the street or you can hear the people in the hallway or you can hear like really it's not It's not doesn't feel very safe. Like that. I'm definitely affected. It's like George Carlin's joke. Your shit is stuff and their stuff is shit Yes

It's funny you were you just did Carlin and you did a bit of a black scent You well, I was doing George Carlin. Well, he did a little black Well, I was doing George Carlin. Well, he did a little black exact your stuff I'm a jazz guy Yeah, all right so messing it were I'm forgiving you for for messiness and procrastination Procrastination is in my career though, like with writing mainly writing, you know Cuz like most writers I know Like people say later, why do you write and I said because I have a deadline like otherwise why would I do

that you know yeah because it's always painful it's never not painful I always feel any writer worth their salt thinks it's gonna be horrible when I meet young writers ago I'm great and I go okay the writers I respect never never utter those words, you know. Which makes them try to be better all the time, you know. My writing is only good because someone bought it or because other people said so. It's never because I think it's the best, you know.

I may feel more fondly about it later, but sometimes it's years later. Well, let's play it in front of an audience. I'll look back and I'll go, oh, that was pretty good. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Like, I never watched, when I did the Nightly Show, could's play it in front of an audience. I'll look back and I go. Oh, that was pretty good Yeah, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. Yes, like I never watched when I did the nightly show could not watch it I thought I didn't like my voice Just didn't like and then I when it was off, you know, I'd watch something good. That was actually pretty good Yeah, I could appreciate it

Yeah but I would judge it way too harshly and I think some of that is at the root of procrastination because the first part of Procrastination is I think it's not going to be any good So that prevents me from starting, you know or prevents me from getting far Let's say, you know Yeah And then the good thing about a deadline after a while the fear of not finishing it overtakes the fear of it not being any good So then you know, yeah, so then I have to yeah, it's a carrot

It's all that stick gets bigger exactly and then I have to, I drop that fear. That stick gets bigger. Exactly, and then I'm able to finish something. So that's why deadlines are important to me. Professional deadlines. I completely agree. Not personal deadlines. Personal deadlines, I'm too smart to make those work. Cause I go, nah, that's personal.

You ain't got shit on me. I ain't gotta finish that shit. Like, oh, personal meaning. Well, even- Larry, you gotta finish this in a week I know Thank you, thank you for using your word it's been a while the I know if Chappelle been around no So but that is with a personal being like meet me at 7 or or or

With a personal being like meet me at seven or or or so and so wants it by Friday It has to be professional deadline, right? Yeah, and even then I can be a little cagey with it Depending on what it is, but it'll get done, you know Yeah, if I'm in production everything gets of course time everything is yeah, because I'm responsible more than I'm fearful You know, yeah because I'm responsible more than I'm fearful. You know? Yeah. But when I'm free, like you say, development stuff, I could take forever to do things. It depends on what it is.

So I need hard deadlines from bosses who are paying me. Do they, do you explain that to them? No, of course not. I'm not going to give it up like that. All my power. And there's different types of deadlines. Like if something's going to go away, you know, if you don't turn it in, you know, if you know, you know, or yeah, or you have to shoot Yeah types of deadlines, but and that's kind of where the Catholic thing comes in. I find speaking of Chappelle we had real different approaches to

to punctuality Where it's like it was like dude, we have to write. We don't have, I know what's, we've agreed to do 13 of these in 13 weeks. Right. If we don't start writing now, we were writing Half Baked,

he actually said like a year later, we were writing Half Baked, we had to turn in the next day and we started watching Hollywood Shuffle. It was on cable, and I was like, if we don't start now, we're never, and he literally was a year later, he was like, you were absolutely right. We'd still be watching Hollywood Shuffle

if you hadn't just turned the television off. Right, yeah, when I have those kind of deadlines, obviously you can't reschedule Monday. Monday's coming whether you like it or not. So I'm more responsible than I am fearful. So when I'm in the position where I have to get something done, like being a producer writing a movie that's going to shoot, definitely I'm showing up getting it done. I just think it's where he couldn't, even that didn't mean that much to him.

That's shocking to me, yeah. It's just, it was, it's just like a life ethos, kind of like seeing the world where it's like, it'll just, it's like, you know, go on stage late, go on at one in the morning, because like, I don't know. It's what I felt like going on, not thinking like people have jobs and it just, it's,

I find it, it is useful. He is a better writer than me. Do you know what I mean? Like he is more talented than me. And I don't know if that has to do with. Well, it's a different talent. It's, it's, he's better at, I mean, it's a, I guess it's different, but I would say like,

he can throw the ball faster than me. I can throw the ball fast, but some of the, he can throw the ball like, okay. I know what you mean. better at I mean it the board, and it's kind of the basis of my act and basis of things I've written, but it's like he thinks it's all non-linear. Mine, like very linear in a very ideally entertaining way, and he is all non-linear, including time. Just everything's non-linear. That's just the way his system works. Yes.

Oh, that makes sense. And that's part of his genius is connecting in system works. Yes. Oh, that makes sense. And it's, and you- That's part of his genius is- Yes. Connecting in that way. Yes. Right, I get it. And it's like, and part of it is, you just get shit when you get it.

Yeah. But it is unique when you're in a system where it has to get done. I'm very, this is an old term, but Rolodex, I don't know how to use it. Or like my brain works for it's like, to get done. I'm very this is an old term but Rolodex I don't know how to use it or like my brain works for it's like here's the thing that's the right those are the two right things that go with that like all the information comes down on this

side and all the opposite information I call it grid brain or the information that makes this funny together with that yes defines that now yeah you know and that's how and my brain does it in an instant. Yes, I can literally say factual set up, you know like twist, do do do do. Like you and I are not intimidated when someone says, we need you to write five pages of jokes. We're like okay.

Yeah, I knew that. No problem. Yeah, three of them will be good. Right, well that's not the issue right? But we know how to do that process. Like you say, read the paper and get some jokes out of this. Read the paper, that's even better. I don't have to make something up.

Yeah, having written with him for years, I couldn't tell you how his system works. Yeah. Which is- That's interesting. Which is- How does Dave construct a joke? Like does he start with that big reveal

that he's working towards? No, I think that that's like the last thing. Or that happens organically. I think that happens, I think. I'm not, I'm, even I'm not an authority. Have you helped him understand it? Not really, if I have, it's like, it's that thing.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Bro, yeah, absolutely. It's like you're giving examples, here's another example. That's why you can write for other people too. Yeah, and I'm sure, yeah, and you can as well. Absolutely. In fact, I always could do that better

than I could write for myself. And then learning to write for myself took a whole different type of skill set. I don't, I can do both. But I could explain, I guess I could explain my system like my voice, but I was just remember better at empath Well, that's no you have that written down. He has written down as a block empaths last sociopath. What does that mean? Well, I think for that the empath thing I kind of explained a little bit but I actually have been an actual empath in some ways,

which really kinda shocked me. You say that as a person who felt like you couldn't feel your own, you weren't allowed to feel your own feelings. Correct. And? Because someone else's were more important, right? Right.

So that was the emotional component of it, which is fine. But then there was actual physicalization of that that shocked me when my wife was was pregnant She was about to give birth this is a we had about a month to go right and it was she had a Pregnancy during most of the summer and it was really tough those last few months really hot hottest time You know you got this big thing and sunny, you know we did all all the Lamals and all that stuff but I remember she had some really she's developed some really bad lower back pain it's very common you know it can be really

debilitating and of course I felt sorry for and everything but um one day my back just started really hurting you you know, I mean really painful And I don't mean just a little bit like I could barely get up type of pain And i'm like what the fuck is going on and I have to think what did I do? I was trying i'm going through my mind thinking well, and I could not get it a couple weeks like two weeks go by It did not let up. So now i'm really concerned and she still has hers. Yeah, she still has hers And I go to the doctor, you know, they couldn't find anything.

They were saying stuff like, well, maybe it's pleurisy. I mean, they were saying stuff like that. I didn't even know what that was. I still don't really. Yeah, I still don't. Don't look it up. Yeah, it feels like one of those 19th century elements, you know?

Yeah, it seems like something someone in my mother's neighborhood had. Yeah, like the artful dodger would get there. Something in it. Those kind of things. But could not explain it. It was so painful. So my wife, when she had she gave birth, it was kind of a little difficult. She had a long labor and ended up being caesarian. Son came out and everything.

And he was in ICU for a little bit. Have a little trouble, but he did OK, you know. And and I remember just sitting in the hospital, because she had to stay there for a few days, and I'm going, hmm, hmm. Wait a second, that's where my back doesn't hurt anymore. I'm like, what the fuck? And it was so weird, and I instantly knew

what was going on, instantly instantly that I was sharing that pain My body shared that pain. I Instantly knew it knew it was the last time in that marriage that you've shared According to her but it happened again with our next child It wasn't as intense and when it happened, I instantly knew what it was this time And it only lasted for two weeks. It didn't last as long. Did hers dissipate at all? She just had the same amount and you had, you also had it. Well hers wasn't as bad the second time.

Okay, was yours as bad? No. Okay, that's interesting. But I knew exactly what it was when it happened. Right on schedule. And you were like, we gotta get this baby going. She had cesarean, came out, gone. And I thought, there was something going on here.

And so that was physical empathy, you know, not just emotional, that was physical. I'm like, what the fuck is that, you know? Yeah. To have the physical manifestation of that is a whole different category, you know? And I can have that sometimes. I realize when I, like sometimes there's movies

and there's emotions and then I start feeling that or that type of thing Yeah, but then but this is interesting and I realized I was using a lot of things outside of me to have the things that maybe I wasn't felt like I couldn't you know have permission for or whatever, you know, cuz I had emotions But well, that's they say about autism that you'll model Yeah, you model other people's emotions, right? Sure. Is that what it is, do you think?

It wasn't modeling, it was experiencing. Because it seems like it's involuntary. It was experiencing, which is different. It hasn't happened in as intense a way, but little things, you know, have been that. But the other thing was sometimes things would happen, the sociopath part of it. And I wouldn't feel anything. So like, and I've always been concerned about this. It's not as bad as it used to be. No, seriously. No, this is what I mean. No, it's funny.

No, I know what you're like. I know exactly what you did like in front of me. I'd start thinking of the jokes, you know, like. I know exactly what you did like in front of me. I'd start thinking other jokes, you know Like sometimes I wouldn't be sad. I might be shocked, you know in like things bad things could happen in You know, it wouldn't hit me the way it would hit other people, you know And I would be concerned about them like how come I'm not feeling this grief that people are feeling or whatever Well, then you could tell yourself griefs nonlinear. Yeah. I mean you don't know when it could hit you and it never hits you.

I had a different relationship with it. You know. Yeah. It took a couple of events I think to truly feel that it's okay to experience those things because you have those emotions. It's okay to experience the lack of or it's okay to experience the the the actual grief yeah because you actually those emotions are there they just didn't have permission to have an

outlet that's what I realized later did you experience them as grief or they they do you feel like you're gonna experience it all eventually do you mean like I've had my this this is the past when I'm talking about it. It's not so much now. Sometimes that kind of thing can come up, you know, where everybody is feeling something that is really intense about something. And I'm like, you know.

Yeah, do you eventually feel it? Kind of, yeah. Are there things that you experience more than other people? Yeah, that's probably true too, probably. It might not be. But I'm not an intense feelings person, so I don't get triggered a lot

the way a lot of people get triggered by things. Some people get triggered so fast, they get angry, and those things happen. Those lights don't come on fast for me. Anger does for me, but that's about the list Yeah, but I wonder if you know I did that joke about people that are good at some are optimized for that thing and pretty much nothing else, right? You ever play a video game where you make the character and you have like a hundred points to get a distributed between like

Dexterity and marksmanship and speed that's what God does and Sometimes he fucks up We have a lot of Analytical yeah, and a lot of pattern recognition a lot of pattern recognition and we don't get hyper You know emotional about other stuff. I think it's I think I understand that it's called sociopathy. I understand that Yeah, and I'm not I'm not But I'm saying like I think if you don't kill anybody, oh no, no, I'm not as a psychopath, right?

That's the next stage and I'm not a sociopath not by any means but I think what it really is Like could you be a moral sociopath? Sure, it's called a surgeon. I mean, that's what they are. Don't we need surgeons? No, surgeons are moral sociopaths. They have to be complete sociopaths to cut human beings open.

Yes, and to think they're great. They all think they're great at it. And to not go home feeling fucked. Yeah, and they lose some of them and they're like,, oh their hearts gonna it's gonna fail in a week. Yeah, okay I should probably tell them. Yeah Yeah, but my point you made my boy, which is like don't we need those people thousand percent should have should a Surgeon do should a surgeon? Be having intense feelings, right? Right. Yeah, it's a joke I did about like I don't want certain people to have a good work-life balance

Yes, I just don't right Should a surge modern the modern surgeon. Yeah, say yeah quality. Yeah real sociopath right Should a modern sir the the modern world would tell a surgeon that he needs to get in touch with his family, his or her feelings, does he or she? You do not wanna do that. Yeah.

Yeah, and so people that date doctors sometimes, that is such an asshole, I'm like, well what's his name? I'd like to, he sounds fantastic. Yeah, does he have any availability? Yeah. Yeah, no, that's absolutely right. Like. Yeah, that's what you want. Yeah, so I'm not, I would never be so bold

as to say that you and I are like surgeons. Or that comedians are like, or whatever. Now having said that, there's a lot more surgeons than good comedians. But we, yes, but we are observing life in what we do. You know, we're antennas. So many times, well, some artists, being antenna affects them emotionally

and they move back, but we interpret as what we do most of the time. We get signals and we go, oh, blah, blah, blah. And so there's not necessarily has to be emotion with that. It could just be an observation. Yes, and there can be emotion, but there doesn't have to be emotion with that. It could just be an observation. Yes, and. There can be emotion, but there doesn't have to be. I would argue that getting emotional

is gonna probably hinder the pattern recognition joke process. It can, yeah. I mean, it can help, but I would say 70-30, it hurts. It hurts 70% of the time, it helps 30% of the time. I would say it's not I would say 70 30. Yeah, it hurts it hurts 70% of the time it helps 30% of time I would agree. I'm probably better to be dispassionate about that and then put the emotion in afterwards And this is another thing. Yeah that yeah, you do the fake treacly set up But there this is the thing that I actually sort of argue not even argue with my girlfriend

But this is the thing where I defend myself where I'm like I'm not gonna be that quick to empathy about me. I'll be quick to empathy about Other problems in your life. I really like genuine, but if you criticize me, yeah, my first instinct is not going to Be empathetic about my behavior right to you like it's not I don't I was like I don't have the capacity but I have other capacities and is that and what I'm What I would like I'm I'm exonerating you from your from your from your sociopath Oh, thank you and a lot of people conflict criticism with love and that's that is not a good They're called women go ahead See how I'm letting you say that

I let you have surgeon on take well my ex-wife went through that where that was a relationship with you know how she was brought up, you know and and It's so clear when you're not in that context, but many people feel it's very it's a very Asian cultural thing where especially the the tiger mom to the right to the other show their love language especially to especially to young girls you know criticism is the primary form of communication that for them is an act of love you know but criticism can be very destructive to your soul to your psyche to, to so many things, you know. What do you feel about the talk in the black community?

Or like the, if you don't instill some sort of physical harm into your child, the police eventually will. What do you mean? I don't understand that. Meaning there's a thing of like, you know, whip, you know, black parents whipping their children or get the switch or some sort of physical harm. And the, I'd always heard it explained of like, well, if they don't, the idea is if the parents don't do it, eventually white society finally,

eventually will. I think those things I think are more cultural and they're more about a time, you know, that's just how it wasn't just black people. That's how people were punished back in a certain time, you know, that's just how, it wasn't just black people, that's how people were punished back in a certain time. You know, many cultures punish like that with a belt or that type of thing. I mean, Richard Pryor did the routine with the, I mean, everybody related to that,

getting the switch from outside. You had to go get your own strap to beat your own ass with, you know, which is so true. But because it's not in the culture now, so to me, it's more of a It's just vacation parents just have permission to beat the shit out of you really sure They're not even you have to be their kid. That's really exactly correct They were supposed to be any child they saw getting out alive

But believe me white kids had the shit beat out of them know in many different ways. I mean my had the shit beat out of them in many different ways. I mean, my ex-roommate, I remember he's... Gaylord? Yeah, his father, he would punch those kids, I mean, do some real physical things. I hope he talked about it in therapy and then you siphoned it. Exactly, and a great guy too, and I met him, but...

Of course. That's how they communicated, through physical violence. Yeah, and they were actually better than their parents. They were less violent than their parents somehow. You have here liking to be alone. Yeah, I thought you were related to that one. That one's hard to explain when you're in a relationship.

It's really hard. I know, it's another one of those things of like, this isn't against you. Yeah, I know, but it is. They feel that it is. Now my ex-wife,, I know. But it is. They feel that. Yeah. Now my ex-wife, ironically, she felt the same way I did on that. We never had a conflict with that. You know, we could always go off to our own spaces and that type of thing. And that was awesome. You know, that was great. But anyone, everyone else I've been with before and after

are threatened by that. You know. Yeah yeah i guess i just don't believe that anyone has an unlimited appetite for me or anyone else i don't even have it you know yeah i sleep eight hours a day just to get away yeah to take a break exactly exactly i actually believe that's what drugs are a lot for a. It's like, get me out of this consciousness for five hours. I just don't wanna be the same thoughts and the same patterns, just like, I'll risk death. I'm totally willing to risk death to just get out of this fucking, this incessant nonsense.

Yeah, for me it's different. For me it's kind of the inverse of that, you know notice I say inverse set opposite It's more to get away from that, you know, so I could be alone that's really what it is get away from other people's nonsense Absolutely app of course and so because I just need I just need time to be an antenna too You know, I need input time like I want to know what's happening in the world I want to think about things.. I need input time. I wanna know what's happening in the world. I wanna think about things.

Maybe I wanna practice a couple magic tricks. Maybe I wanna read the paper. Maybe I wanna do this, and I wanna do it alone. That's the other key is I do wanna do it alone. It goes to the empath, sociopath thing. It's like I am as much of a curmudgeon as I may seem or whatever. I'm very susceptible to other people's energy.

Like I will take on, I'll worry that I'm not behaving well for them. Am I not holding up my end of some bargain I don't know about? And I need to, in order to shut that off, I just need to get away from people. Yeah, and if there's a lot of people in a room that I don't know, I will always go off somewhere,

you know, like I'm not good about, hey everybody, I don't know you, I'm this, you know, opposite of that. You know, when I did comedy clubs, you know, I never related to those guys who stayed afterwards, you know, selling eyeballs, you know, oh, bless Vic Dunlap who did that, but mixing with the crowd.

I'd always be off with a couple of people just having a couple of beers. And just because I already got, I already got the people already. I had that experience with a lot of people. Yeah. That's what going on stage was for. How do you like after stage was not for that after stage is for something else. But most of the time when there's a group of people, I'm just worried I'm not. It feels like a wedding where you're like, OK, I got to go's a group of people, I'm just worried I'm not, it feels like a wedding where you're like, okay, I gotta go.

I gotta, or like, I'm not, what's the right social situation for you? Because I think mine is one-on-one. But I think some people like four. It depends. Some people like six. There's no number. It's whether or not small talk is gonna take place.

That's what the issue is. It could be one-on-one and it would be the worst thing. I have to get out of here. You know, it could be 20, but it could be fantastic because there's some unbelievable conversations going on that doesn't require me to have to explain everything about me, you know. Or remedial communication.

I'm just like, how was my flight? Let me tell you. Oh man, so I don't like like Christmas parties things like that I remember saying this to somebody at a party and I think I pissed them off like fuck you They're gonna do I said I can't stand small talk and I think they thought I was talking yeah, and I wasn't yeah I was making a comment, but I realized I said, you know, I don't go to a lot of parties and stuff like that And I realized cuz I don't want to you know I don't want to stand around and just not talk about stuff.

I would much rather meet some friends at a club or a place where we could talk, have some drinks, shoot the shit, you know, do whatever. Like, the fun thing about comedy clubs when I was doing stand-up was hanging out with the comics that I liked afterwards. We'd go somewhere and, you know, do all that kind of stuff, more so than being around a lot of people

in the club type of thing, you so than being around a lot of people in the club type of thing. Yeah. Yeah, but I guess people would say that that's antisocial. Or, but I, it's like, the good news of COVID was introvert got a lot of shine. Oh man, my son was in heaven. It was like now all the world was like.

Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. And now I think it's more accepted than it was. That was an interesting time. I really liked it. There was some stuff I liked, some stuff I wasn't crazy about. There was, yeah, it was interesting.

It's funny, because when you were asking me early about unpopular opinions and everything, It's funny, because when you were asking me early about unpopular opinions and everything, COVID really exposed a lot of like bullshit generalizations that different sides have. You know, give me some. It really did. You know, like it really exposed how much the left fucking hates, fucking loves rules and loves bureaucracy. They fuckin' can't get enough of it. And it's like, stop it, motherfucker. I'm not gonna put on a mask in my car,

go fuck yourself, you know? I'm not gonna put a mask to walk outside, you know? Some of these things were so over the top. Like, you know, now some of it is paying the price. Like not being sensible about children and their effect with COVID. It was just stickin' to the rules. The rules are for everybody. And you're an asshole if you don't go by them. It was so over the top. It was not thoughtful at all.

Very good observation recently about the difference between the right and the left. Problem on the right is a personality type has become autocratic and the problem on the left is a personality type is bureaucratic. Yeah, I heard that. It's either like groups of people making rules or one strong man My philosophy on it is the extreme left and extreme right the extreme left always takes things too far They can never take us for an answer. Yeah, and the extreme right just make shit up, you know, yeah Just yeah, they just make shit up. Yeah, you know, what do you? You have health written down here. Yeah, cuz I don't take it as seriously as I should.

Have you had any scares? Not scares necessarily, but concerns in there. You don't experience fear, so. Yeah, but I'm on more medication now than I thought I would be on, and it kind of happens instantly. Like you're like- You're on a statin probably?

All that stuff, and it happens like this. People say, are you on a medication? And you're like, no, I'm not on anything. And then a year later, you go, I'm gonna try a new doctor and go with this and you're on five medications all of a sudden. It's like, what the fuck just happened? You're starting to buy those little pill boxes

and everything. It's crazy. Yeah, and it's... And they're not wrong, which is the other thing, you know, yeah Yeah, it's good, but you wish there was a better way exactly and unfortunately, it's diet and exercise Doing that I do but then there are blocks to that like I'll do it for a time and then Stop and then I'll do it for a time. Yeah, and then like I need accountability there a lot Yeah in the way that I need do it for a time. And then, like I need accountability there a lot,

in the way that I need a deadline for writing. Well, yeah, is it possible to have accountability? I don't know, see, we're too smart as humans. We were able to figure out that that's what the deal is, so then we combat that. So you really have to use other tools in order to stick to things sometimes. I created this whole philosophy years ago I call it creation, you know

And it was trying to give away to just help clear us up and free us up to do certain things, you know And to have different relationships, you know with things and I've used it sometimes and it is really helpful And I'm passing on to people and that kind of stuff But you need to have a way in which to have a proper relationship with something unless you're lucky enough to have the type of relationship where you it's almost like autistic where that's the role I'm sitting to the rule you know and some people can do that and it's not a problem you know but the real thing is being able to stick to something when it's the last thing you want to do. That's the challenge. And so what you have to learn to do

is take desire out of the equation and realize that actually what you want has nothing to do with it. Has nothing to do with anything. I'm pretty good with it and I think it's Catholic. I'm pretty good with like, what are the rules? Okay. And they're self, I only eat sugar one day a week.

Yeah, and I go back and forth on that. Like I haven't had sugar for a while and I feel so much better, but then I'll go through months where it's like, all right, I'll just have this. I need a bowl of Cheerios right now. That's okay. I know, and I won't give,

I'm guilt-ridden enough to just be like, stop. You have to stop. But it is a unique, like I quit smoking cold turkey. Like I can just do, I'm vegan. I'm vegan vegetarian, but mostly vegan. My girlfriend knows that you're vegan, by the way. She thought that was good. She's vegetarian though. Yeah, there you go. She's weak.

No, she's Indian actually. She's been that way her whole life. They started it. You're a baby vegan. Yeah. So, okay, well I guess my question is, how is your, my final question maybe, is how has your life been? You think it's been, do you, how do you gauge it, and is it, did it go well, and are you pleased with it? Are you happy?

Or is happiness even a thing to you? Part of, if you know me, know the type of person that I am, I'm naturally a very happy person and my happiness comes from gratitude, you know. So I operate out of gratitude more than anything else. I lost my brother a few years ago, Brother Mark. About a very funny comic? So funny.

Yeah. You know, I miss him dearly think about him I can only imagine yeah But the biggest tool to help me get through that was gratitude gratitude from being here gratitude for all these things Gratitude is the one saving grace that can help you in your life because I learned I saw bookstore to door once When I was in college and really kind of changed me in a different way It was an earlier change of mind that that set me on on the course to be able to be a standup, you know, to choose a career for something.

And I remember I spent a week where we were all, it was kids from all over the country met in Tennessee for a week and you did this kind of training and then they'd send you to another part of the country and I ended up going to Rhode Island. But that week in Tennessee was a huge week in my life. It changed my life at that time. I'll never forget it. And in fact, I'm still sometimes I'll be in, I'll say hi to my project manager from that time. Like I'll see him and say, hey Larry,

Tom McCullough, if you're listening Tom. But there were sayings there that were those zig ziggler sayings and all that kind of stuff, which some of those are kind of trite, but some are very powerful. No, I thought of what you said, which is like, don't be sad that it's over, be glad that it happened or whatever. And it's so fucking corny. And yet that's helped you with your brother dying. Yeah, there's reasons why some of those exist.

And there are a couple that stuck with me. One was whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're absolutely right. The other one was more people spend, people spend more time planning a two-week vacation than they do planning their lives, that type of thing. And it just helped me to put into perspective gratitude at that time and that type of thing

And i've always tried to live out of that. But uh, so I don't need Help to be happy, you know, i'm very lucky in that sense. Yeah, you know I have to fend off things that are gonna affect the happiness, you know As opposed to some people's the opposite, you know, they're in a world trying to find happiness Yeah, I you know, that's real sad to me. What is the what is the that makes you sad? What is the When you say you come from gratitude, what does it feel like or what's it sound like within you and do you know?

I mean like what do you what is it? What about grant? What's the what do you remind yourself of? I literally have a, I talk about it all the time, I have a journal checklist where I write down, basically like coach myself a few times a day. And one of the big things is like, I am lucky beyond measure. Okay, so part of my philosophy is that,

you have to take emotions out of the equation and turn things into actions Actions are more important than emotions. Okay Like if you when you're not sure people who are not sure what they want look to what you're doing, you know What you're doing is what you want actually, you know Yeah, that's actually what you want your actions. Good luck. Good luck trying to want something else than what you want actually. Yeah. That's actually what you want, your actions. Good luck, good luck trying to want something else than what you're actually doing. Yeah. It will always tell you if you're confused

about what you want. Look at what you're doing, that will tell you. It's a good way, it's also a great way to gauge other people's, what they say and what they're doing. Abuse is a big thing of that. I love you baby, but I'ma hit you. I don't care what you say. Right right so if you operate out of that actions can help you first you know so practice gratitude and actions as opposed to trying to have a

feeling of gratitude so tell people thank you for something you know make sure you show people that that you're grateful for something that they've done you know do surprise gratitude that they've done, you know, do surprise gratitude, that type of thing. So communicate with people about it. So do the action of gratitude first. And does that mean so you would say it's telling someone you're grateful that's I wouldn't consider that an action, but it's it is. Okay. And it actually is. I guess it's I would I would because it's words. I'm like, well, it still feels like words But I guess but you're giving yes to somebody else. Yes, you're giving them a gift by saying that yeah When you're thanking somebody that's giving them a gift. Yeah, that's what that is

You know and because we're humans those words have meaning for us and so it affects us on an emotional level, right? So but it's the action of doing it gratitude can Operate in many different ways, but you can the action of doing it. Gratitude can operate in many different ways, but you can't just say, I'm grateful. You can do that at a certain point and you can have an understanding of that, but it helps to act on gratitude first. What does gratitude look like?

How can I express it in that type of thing? And then you can always remind yourself of it by platitudes and that sort of thing. And then you can always remind yourself of it, by platitudes and that sort of thing. Oh man, so happy this thing happened. Or, I'm glad it was this instead of that. I'm happy to have this, I have my health. All those things that old school people used to do all the time, it's really helpful.

And if you start with that, then you have room for the negative stuff that's gonna come. Cause you're already starting in such a good place. But if you start neutral, it's hard because the negative stuff is gonna come. And you're not like trying to convince yourself or anything. You're just saying the obvious about something. Of course, of course you're happy for this and that sort of thing, you know. So that's what I try to start with in my life. Sometimes it's not that explicit, but it's my point of view of things. That's a great starting, I mean,

I wish I'd known that sooner in life. I'm very lucky in that, because I've never been an unhappy person. I've been troubled by things, and I've always felt happiness is a choice, something you can choose to do. I know, it's, my mom used to say that and it was so aggravating,

and then once you choose it a few times, you're like, I can't believe I just chose it. I know. It works. It's so disappointing. It's disappointing in a way because you wanna feel sorry for yourself. Right.

And it's like, no, you can just choose to be in a good mood. Yeah, you can. And it'll stick. It's so stupid. It's true. And if you choose to be in a bad mood, you're affecting other people too. So you're saying, I want choose to be in a bad mood, you're affecting other people too. So you're saying I want you to be in a bad mood.

Yeah. That's the thing I write in my journal is like don't inflict your mood on people. Yeah. Including yourself. No, it's true. Because your body will believe it. Whatever you tell your body, it's going to believe it. It's an Aparganza joke of how dumb our brains are.

So one part of your brain is smart and the other part is dumb. You can trick your own brain. That's how dumb the dumb part is. I like Nate, he's very funny. He's great. So you've had a great life and it's going pretty great. I have nothing to complain about. I've had ups and downs like everybody else,

but I'm very grateful for the life that I've had ups and downs like everybody else, but I'm very grateful for the life that I've had. The two best things that come out of my life are my kids. I love them very much and they love me. I mean, if that's all I had, done. Yeah. Done. Somehow it worked out well for me. Yeah.

It's not the money, success, it's not the thing that makes me happy. That was something I wanted to do and I'm and I'm grateful for it, you know but the happiness is the Like the lessons that I've in life that I've been able to share with the kids and my family and that kind of stuff That's the thing that drives my happiness more than anything else and and promotes it. It's the connection Oh thousand percent human connections with with, things that make me happy. And it's funny because I want to be alone sometimes, but because I need space for myself

so then I can be with people. Think of shit to tell people. Yes, exactly. PlanLibs is what I call them. That's the point. Larry Wilmore, ladies and gentlemen. That's right. On the Box Podcast.

Shake on it. Thanks, man. That was awesome. Yeah, that was great. That was fun. Good talking.