Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - LL Cool J: I Wish I Knew

Starting point is 00:00:00 Guys, this is a special one for me. I think a first rapper? Maybe one of the things he does. Guys, he's hard as hell. He's our first guest who's hard as, who went on the record as saying, I'm hard as hell. He was a teenager when he said it.

Starting point is 00:00:17 Yeah. Or like 20, just a low 20s. He's got, I looked up two Grammys. Grammys are, it's like you got thanks for nothing. He's only worthy of two Grammys. Get the fuck out of here. He's got a Kennedy Center honor. He's on his 29th season of NCIS.

Starting point is 00:00:35 Let's get the work. This is literally your 15th? Well, this will be, I did 14 seasons on LA. Right. With my character, Sam Hanna. I did one year on Hawaii, and I did some guest appearances on the mothership. So this is a, you play a rogue cop

Starting point is 00:00:56 who keeps getting transferred. I'm kidding. In a lot of ways. It's L.O. Cool, Jay, guys. Police class is what I'm trying to say. You don't recognize the voice. Here, I have a lot of questions, and he has, he's been game with a new format. He wrote down some things that he wish he knew sooner.

Starting point is 00:01:11 We'll get to him. Infinite respect for all your, all your different things you've done. One of my favorite things is you wrote an autobiography in 97. That was early to. A little presumption. No, no, no. I think, yeah, I think I can talk about it. I think I've done it enough.

Starting point is 00:01:30 I am 31. In 1997, you were probably 31 or 20. Something. So, not old. But you were really open about your childhood, which was not a thing that was not hip hop. No. It kind of still isn't, but it really wasn't then. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:52 Can you give people like a, not a refresher, but like talk about some of the stuff you talked about in the book that surprised people and or was. It's hard to write about. Well, you know, first of all, thanks for having me now. You know, glad to be here. Very cool. You know, I was talking about it. So funny, I was talking to some of my guys earlier, the team.

Starting point is 00:02:09 You know, it just started off with a, it was pretty rocky, you know, seeing my mother gets shot by my father early on. And my grandfather, I was about four. I was four. Yeah, and you remember it. Vividly. Because it was that traumatic. Yeah, of course.

Starting point is 00:02:25 So you're capable. We all have memories from four or five that you. you can, I was four, but you can remember. Yeah. And very clear. So, and so that was tough. It made me realize that the world is not a cartoon. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:02:41 And that, um, those kinds of things change, you know. Doesn't have to change you for the worst, but it does change you. And it does impact how you navigate the world and how you think about danger. And I realized very early on that we have a world where, you know, danger exists. so you have to be aware and just kind of live your life a little bit more. It just made me, in a lot of ways, more fearless. Oh, that's interesting. You know, more willing to go out there and do whatever

Starting point is 00:03:11 because anything can happen anyway. So it made me, I didn't cower. It actually showed me that pressure is not something to fear. And adversity isn't either. It's something to actually, it's an opportunity. Your mom recovered. Yes, mother. grandfather recovered. They both recovered.

Starting point is 00:03:31 They were both shot. They were both shot, yes. And they both recovered. And- It told my mother she never walked again and she did. So that was- Oh, that's great. Yeah, that was a blessing. Did seeing them recover give you a belief in resilience? Absolutely. And it gave me a belief in God. Oh, yeah? Yeah, for me. You know, I know everybody has their own feet- Yeah, but I'm saying so you're four, you're four years old, you see that and you go, okay, you don't know what you believe and then- Well, you know, I'm talking about, I'm talking about,

Starting point is 00:03:59 In retrospect. Okay. In the moment, the only thing you really believe is that there's a problem and we need to respond to it in a way that's going to be helpful and make a contribution. Just problem solving in the minute. In the moment. By going and getting a towel and bringing it around to my grandfather and hopefully helping him in some way. You know, you learn in life that, you know, you come with your hand up, you know, your hand on the top to give, not your hand on the bottom, right? And you learn to give and contribute.

Starting point is 00:04:27 So that kind of taught me that. So initially, initially that's what it was about. And then, you know, as you go on and you look back, you realize that people can overcome things. A lot of people are going through a lot of things and they can overcome them. You know, sometimes we don't believe that. Sometimes we get seduced by cynicism,

Starting point is 00:04:49 you know what I'm saying, into not believing that we can do more and be more and have more, but you can. Well, yeah, we all believe that we are going through something incredibly unique and special. That's right. This is the worst. My problem's the worst problem. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:07 Yeah. You know, it's interesting. It's interesting. Like, that's an interesting way of saying it because ultimately you can deal with problems based on self-referral or you can look at other people and kind of compare. There are a lot of different ways to do it. The one thing that is true, though, is that that problem, whether it is unique or not, does. affect you and how you respond to it will affect you. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:05:32 Right? So whether it's unique is not necessarily the key ingredient. The thing is, how are you going to respond to this thing you're dealing with? Yeah. Right? If we're all out in the water and we're drowning, like how are we gonna, like, yeah. Yes, other people are drowning, but yes,

Starting point is 00:05:48 how am I gonna deal with, so that's what I... Were you kind of like, did it make you sort of the, you're, did you have any brother and sisters? No, not at that point. So you're kind of like a de facto leader at that point in the family, no? Like a little bit or at least a caretaker? You know, it's interesting. You know, and I talked about that on there, but, you know, the lead, first you got to know how to follow.

Starting point is 00:06:12 Yep. And real leadership, you know, requires confidence and humility, but not pseudo humility. Not I'm bowing to you at the Hollywood party, but I'm bowing because I think I'm better than you. Right. Or something weird. You know, you know, with all of this, you know, it's kind of like. So you have been to Hollywood.

Starting point is 00:06:34 A couple of times. A couple of times. You know, it's, but the humility thing and making a contribution to being able to follow tease you up. But you were just as a kid, you're like just helping your grandfather, you're helping your mom, you're helping, you're, they're rehabbing in some way, shape or form. Well, my mother stayed in the hospital for many, many months. And I was too young to go up to that ward so they were.

Starting point is 00:06:57 would bring me to the window and she would wave at me from the window. My grandfather, he dealt with his thing at home. You know, I was involved from a distance, but I definitely was more of a witness and watched them get better. Okay. Did you have to raise, kind of do more of raising yourself, kind of, because it was your grandma? No, well, there were times in my life when I was a latchkey kid, that's true.

Starting point is 00:07:25 There were times when, you know, eight years old, and I'm, you know, I'm going back and forth between Queens and Long Island, and I'm in North Babylon and let's say you gotta get to school on your own, you gotta get home on your own. You know, there were times when I dealt with that, my mother's working two jobs, so I dealt with that as well. But, no, I had good people around me, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:48 programming my personal software. Who? Okay, that was my exact question. Yeah. Who? Grandmother. My grandmother would tell me, if a task is once begun, never leave it till it's done. Be thy labor, great, or small, do it well or not at all. My mother would tell me you can do anything you put your mind to.

Starting point is 00:08:06 And that combination, plus my grandfather, whose family came over from Barbados, just watching him work really, really hard. You know, he would go to the Masonic Lodge on the weekends. And, you know, he was part of the Black Association and patrol. Yeah. and, you know, so, you know, you learn. Yeah, because when I think about you, you seem really, from afar, you seem really efficient. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:33 Or really like, I'm, so, so let's take that as the, as the, as our way into, so you become, you got turntables? I got turntables. So the real, the real story is that I was riding around on my man, he loved me, he rests in peace. Um, dear friend of mine. He's actually a public enemy. But that's a whole- Is he really? Yeah, that silhouette of the public enemy logo is my friend E-Love, who used to stand on stage with me.

Starting point is 00:08:59 And they took a, Chuck D took a car to cut out of Earl. So the turntables came because I got hit on Earl's mini bike. And my grandfather wanted to keep me in the house. And I had been begging for a mini bike and begging for turntables. And my grandfather, who was Caribbean and didn't want to spend one cent. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:09:17 Not one cent was convinced that. Are you still cheap, by the way? A little bit Yeah a little bit It's not about how much money you have It's in your character I mean look at my chest Look at my chest near you don't see a lot of ice

Starting point is 00:09:31 And you never and you kind of never No I didn't have change Yeah you've had them all but Maybe that's why I know nothing Yeah yeah It's like I'll put that on a he wish you knew sooner No don't waste your money on gold

Starting point is 00:09:44 Well When did you get When did you retire them I didn't you never really retire from the jury, you never really retire. You're always in my draw. Hi, my name is Todd. I'm a jewelry holic.

Starting point is 00:09:57 You know what I'm saying? I'm a diamond holic. Hi, my name is. You never really retire. It's impossible. I still like the ice. I still like the stuff. But, you know, that's the trappers of success, right?

Starting point is 00:10:09 But, you know, it is what it is. Okay. All right. So you got it, so you get, you get the cheapest. One thing I'm never going to do, Neil, start saying I would like jewelry. That would be a big mistake. I'd be lying my ass. Oh, yeah, yeah, you don't get to lie about it.

Starting point is 00:10:25 That would be like the biggest lie in history. But when can, whenever I had a Rolex and I was like, what am I saying with this? I, it's, honestly, as a white guy that it's like, just different, I think, where I'm just like, it just, there was something about it. No, no, of course, no, no, no, but I... You know I got the Daytona!

Starting point is 00:10:43 Of course. I'm not, I'm saying as a white guy with some self-awareness. Yes. I was just like, what am I saying with this? Like, it just felt like rude. I had something about it felt rude to me. Yeah. No one's rude.

Starting point is 00:10:58 No one's proud of me for having a rollout. Nah, you know, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not going to apologize for what I like. Don't. I'm not asking you to apologize. No, no, I don't think you are. I don't think you are at all. I just, you know, no, it ain't rude at all.

Starting point is 00:11:08 You know, it is, it is. No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I'm happy for you. No one's happy for me that I have a Rolex. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's like, not a. I didn't overcome any. I mean, that they know about. You know what? You know, that's interesting, but I think that, you know, everybody has the right to dream and accomplish something. Mm-hmm. You know what I'm saying? And whether it's having a barbershop or having your own

Starting point is 00:11:35 podcast or whatever, having a real estate or having a big Rolex or a chunky rope. Like, whatever floats your boat, right? Like people are people. So white, black, whatever, to me, if, You dream, your dream comes true. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes, it was, I couldn't justify it. Because it was no one's like, can you believe it guys? My father was a lawyer and I got it, who gives a shit?

Starting point is 00:12:04 Like, I did it. I feel you. I rose up from Villanova, Pennsylvania. Yeah, yeah. It didn't feel right for you. Like, what's the narrative? I understand. I kind of feel that way like about like,

Starting point is 00:12:16 um, I'm a little like that with cars a little bit. Like, you know, like I don't need a phantom Rose Royce riding around. Like, I don't know what that means. You want to know what it is? Huh. I know you got money. Yes. I know it's like, it's not, it's fun.

Starting point is 00:12:32 But let me tell you something. In 85. There you go. That's where I was going with it. I was literally, it's like, then you're just the big boombox. I'm like, how do we get that fucking boom box? What we go? Nouveau rich.

Starting point is 00:12:43 Newvo rich. Yeah. Like that's the, yeah, like then do it. But at a certain point, it's just like, Like, everybody knows that all that. Yeah, I don't think, you know, I don't need to see Bill Gates with a diamond pendant on. I would say you never see Bill Gates with a t-shirt with a bunch of Benjamin Franklin $100 bills on it. Never going to see.

Starting point is 00:13:01 No. He didn't, he don't need it. So, all right, so you get the cheapest turntable you can get. Although my man Jensen from NVIDIA is pretty, he wears leather jackets, you know. He got a vibe. You got a good vibe. Don't, don't. Let's go.

Starting point is 00:13:19 Don't feed his ego. He's going to have that on a loop. That's going to his ringtone. Okay, so you get turntables and you, but you love hip-hop at that point. Still young. There's not even that much of it. No, there's, yeah, there's just the Bronx. Well, there's Harlem and there's Flash and the Furious Four that became the Furious Five.

Starting point is 00:13:41 There's the Treacher's Three. There's all the tapes. There's a four-some Cs. There's a cold crush. There's fantastic romantic. There's all of these groups, you know, then there's a soul sonic band. And you probably knew someone who knew most of them. Well, a little bit, but that was later.

Starting point is 00:13:56 That was a little before I made records, but still later. My man Silver Fox, who was in the Fantasy 3, kind of took me and around and introduced me to a lot of people, but that was later. But earlier, it was just living next door to a bunch of foster kids, and they're from the Bronx, they're from Brooklyn, they're from uptown, mainly the Bronx and uptown, so they had all the tapes. So I was exposed to help. pop day one.

Starting point is 00:14:19 Yeah. Early 81 or something? Yeah, maybe a little earlier than that, early than that, like 78, you know, 77, 78, like around that time, the tape started floating around. Yeah. It was early. Yeah. It was early. So, and you're, do you see it as like, you hear it and you're like, uh-oh? I'll give you the real thing.

Starting point is 00:14:41 What you, what it is is, all you ever see is young, on the news is young black men, in handcuffs being put in the back of police car. That's the only image that you ever really seen saw at that time of young black men. This was the first time I heard young black men and women signing powerful. Other than Muhammad Ali, outside of some of the great speeches, the Martins, the Maquins, the speeches.

Starting point is 00:15:07 But, you know, in this way, people that I can relate to, kids that were only a few years older than me, all of a sudden were powerful. and they were powerful in a way that didn't get them in trouble, but actually made them... Yeah. You know, it just gave them...

Starting point is 00:15:25 It mythologized. It was... Yes. It mythologized. And, like, a... Not a dumb... It was like... Yes.

Starting point is 00:15:32 It was kind of fun. Yes. Fun. It was like comic book fun. It was... Yes, but yes. But comic book fun in the sense of, like, I'm inspired to be Superman.

Starting point is 00:15:44 Yeah. I'm inspired to be Superman. Come Spider-Man. I'm, you know, I'm inspired to become Batman. Like that kind of comic book fun. Yeah. Yes. And it was-

Starting point is 00:15:52 Local, like, wait, I can be Batman. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, when you hear Melly Mel and you hear the Treacher's Three, and you hear Mo D and you hear Grandmaster Kaz and you hear Shot Rock, and you hear Flash scratching and Theodore and Cool Herc and Africa Band. When you hear all of these people, the Soul Sonic, when you hear them, Almighty KG. The fearless four, and then you hit whip a whip.

Starting point is 00:16:18 And I mean, just- We're running out of time. Yeah, no, we gotta keep going, though. Because they're too good. They're too good. And you hear, no, I'm kidding. That's all that ladies, there was all are cool, Jay. Yeah, it was nice and nice to know you.

Starting point is 00:16:30 Shout out to the Funky 4 plus one more. Oh, he's still going. He's still going. Yeah, so you hear these guys, and you think this is my way. Like, do you hear, are you rhyming? Are you, are you, at what point can you train your brain right to start rhyming?

Starting point is 00:16:53 Because I know in comedy you like, I, you're funny natural. It's like, you just go, you do an impression, you do whatever, you do an impression that, but with rhyming, I'm like at a certain point. Yeah, you're running out of the top. No, no, I'm digging, I'm digging. Y'all wanna fall under the table laughing right now, but keep going, bro. I'm just, I'm just. digging us out of the hole that you got us into.

Starting point is 00:17:18 Let me be very clear. He went too long with the list of rappers. He says he didn't want to leave anybody out because he's got Survivor's guilt, guys. The most successful rapper of the 80s, he made all the money. And by all the money, I mean 8% of his death camp contract went straight to this guy. So he still has every rapper, 8%? Would you have more than 8? You more than 8 points?

Starting point is 00:17:44 I own my catalog. Now, when did you get that? Not longer. Now that sales have gotten pretty reasonable. He owns it. But I don't think you get licensed enough. Let me say that. Well, no, no, I turned down a lot of licenses.

Starting point is 00:18:06 How come? Because some of them just aren't always right. Sometimes it's a nasty look. Like, you know, it's just, you know. But then sometimes it's great. Yeah. Absolutely. But congratulations. Eight percent.

Starting point is 00:18:19 I mean. That's a nasty controversy. Hey, yo, Neil. My point is, when do you... You know what? I got to say one thing, though. No, I got it. I got it.

Starting point is 00:18:29 Because it would be unfair if I didn't give Russell and Leo and those guys their props. Even when I first signed, my publishing was 50-50. Was it really? Yes. I have to tell the truth. Okay. And they did treat me well. And I just lucked out and got with some guys that,

Starting point is 00:18:45 were pigs because if they would have took 100% I would have signed. Ultimately, you just got luck that they were decent. I got lucked into a situation where I got with some people who didn't do a number on me. Okay. All right, so you're making beats yourself and then you start recording yourself at home?

Starting point is 00:19:04 So actually my man, spin master Finesse, helped me make the demo. I had a core drum machine. I didn't know how to program it, and I didn't want to learn. So we did it manually and we made it. and we made a pause tape. I sent it into Rick,

Starting point is 00:19:17 ad, let them hear it. Adam Horvitz heard the record. Yeah, so I was home writing. I was mainly writing rhymes to like instrumentals and to break beats and just writing rhymes and then I started recording. Okay, I know just from, if I, when I was doing Shepel show, I would, my brain would see the world in sketches.

Starting point is 00:19:37 Yeah. Meaning like I could just convert ideas into the best sketch idea, right? what does a rapper's brain do in that way? Take a snapshot of the world and articulate either how you think it should be or how it is. Okay. Through words.

Starting point is 00:19:57 But... Okay, so you think of a... You download... You weren't that political. We'll get to that. I want to talk about public. I mean, B.C. White and while... But in turn...

Starting point is 00:20:05 I'm just wondering what... Do you... Literally, is it involuntary after a while? Well, you know, it's no different from what you do, right? Like, you... Like, I mean, just in this moment, you absorb what I'm saying and you process it and it just comes out and you see a thing in it.

Starting point is 00:20:20 Yeah. That's funny, right? Yeah. Well, I might absorb something and see a thing in it that's cool to me. Or a thing that's interesting. And does it come to you in a couplet? It can. Absolutely. Absolutely. Like just, and you're like, oh, thank you for that. Yeah, like just now, absolutely, resolutely.

Starting point is 00:20:38 Like, I have, you know, yeah, it just, yes, sometimes. Are there periods of your life where it's like in 80, when you're making a lot of albums, is it just like constant? At the end of it, I think, I forgot the artist's name, but he said it was really cool. He said, inspiration is for amateurs, the rest of us just gotta get to work.

Starting point is 00:20:57 What it is is that when I'm working on music, then I'm all over it, but you gotta sit down and work on it. There are moments when you get a burst of inspiration, but when you wait for that, it doesn't hurt, but I don't know that it necessarily helps. You kind of gotta just get to work. Are you, would you think of, of songs independent of a beat?

Starting point is 00:21:16 Would you, it's like- Both ways. But I can hear a beat and you could treat it like, you know, it's like the old saying that when the sculptor said that the statue's inside the marble. So yeah, if I can hear a beat and say, and the words will come out of the beat, there's that. But there's also times when I'm on my inner clock

Starting point is 00:21:37 and my inner rhythm. Like Steve, you want to say, inner visions, you can have inner rhythm and you just write. and you just feel inspired to say certain things. It's like hitting a vein of gold. Yeah. You know, no, you just hit a vein and you just ride it and you trust it, right? Because that's the other thing, too.

Starting point is 00:21:54 As an artist, you got to trust, right? Like, as a comedian, you have to trust the funny. Like, because if you were alone and I gave you, I said, you got an hour and a half and you got to come up with a thing and the people are out there waiting. You just got to figure it out. Yeah. Is there a hip-hop version of that? Of course.

Starting point is 00:22:11 100%. What is that? Well, I guess it would be just writing a rhyme and maybe you're going to say at a party tonight, it could be pure freestyle where, well, what we would call off the top of the head, just based on what's in the crowd, you know. There's a lot of people who call that freestyle now

Starting point is 00:22:29 because the definitions have shifted over time. Yeah. But off the top of the head, there's that. Was it ever necessary? You had enough hits that you didn't need to. Well, I started off before that. Yeah. Remember, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:22:42 I was at parties rhyming for years. Got it. You know, like I started, I became a fan at eight. I started writing at around 11 or 12, and I was working, I was rhyming at party, well, first I'm in my basement, and then at parties and block parties until age 14, and then all the way to 15 and early 16 until I got a deal. I started sending demos at 14.

Starting point is 00:23:04 So for two years, until age 16, I was sending demos out, but I was rocking parties. You have, there's like the hip hop I'm bad. Mama Sinocchio. Like, just like, I'm great. Right. That seems to be like, everybody's first album is like,

Starting point is 00:23:21 hey, let's be clear. I'm fucking fantastic. That's right. And the reason why it's like that is because you feel invisible. You're walking around in the neighborhood, your friends are getting shot on the corner, nobody cares. The newspaper does not talk about it. The world is treated like shit, you know, your neighborhood.

Starting point is 00:23:40 You feel, invisible. And when you feel invisible, yeah, you want to be seen. So you're going to say I'm bad. Yeah. You're going to say I'm great. Yep. You're going to say I'm the goat. In your neighborhood, did you feel, were you popular? Well, I became popular before records in the circle of those who loved hip hop. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. You know, I had a- So you had like a profile in the neighborhood. Yeah, a mini profile. Yes. Yes, I did me, my man, Mikey D, who actually had a little slightly large. I would say in the neighborhood at that time. But yes, I had a profile.

Starting point is 00:24:16 I was known. Yeah, yeah. Definitely because it was, it's the only way, like, because it would be like the kid who has a guitar and goes around playing, like, after a while, people just know, yo, he can get the guitar. So it was like, yo, he can really rap. Were you out every, where were you on the young corner?

Starting point is 00:24:32 Block parties, house parties, the basement of churches. Was it with an aim? Was it with like, I'm gonna get signed? Yes. like rhyming because it's good for us. Both. Both. Both. Both. One, I just want to be known. I don't want to be invisible. I want to be somebody.

Starting point is 00:24:50 I want to be able to stick my chest out and have something to be proud of and I'm going to have to create it myself. And then two, I want to hear my record on the radio. I want to hear myself on the radio. Yeah. I want to be able to get in a call or turn on the radio and hear myself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you know what's interesting. It's like whether you're in the inner city or you got kids and small.

Starting point is 00:25:11 towns, you know, man, human beings, like, we want to be known. We want to make a difference. We want to impact the world. It's just like comedy, right? Like, great comedians, like, they're not funny for nothing. They're not out here doing comedy because they want to hide. Right. Right?

Starting point is 00:25:27 Like, you want to. No, of course. Like, we like to touch each of, you know, touch the world. So, yeah. That thing you said about the imagery of black kids or any, most black people in, in, you. Central Park 5. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:43 Do you ever watch there's been documentaries about it? Yeah. Those shots of the dudes walking, doing the perp walk in a starter jacket, it was like every fucking night. Every night. It was like you couldn't get. That's what I'm saying, man. It was everywhere. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:26:01 To the point where I forgot it was like, ah, dude, it was so relentless. And, you know, it's tough, man, because propaganda and marketing is real. Mm-hmm. Propaganda is real. Marketing is real. If I put an image in your face constantly, after a while, like, you got a kid who's walking down a block. He has a basketball jersey on and a do-rag because he likes the sport,

Starting point is 00:26:27 but you've somehow transmuted it. Muted that into a criminal uniform. Like, it's so bizarre. Yeah. You know, like all of that, the hoodie thing. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. It's like...

Starting point is 00:26:41 You know what's funny is when you see on every catalog, any, everything, this is called a hoodie. Yeah. Remember when hoodie was like a black term? That's what I'm saying. And so, but here's the thing. Here's the thing we have to do. We got to recognize that the system isn't fair for everybody.

Starting point is 00:26:59 Right. And because the system isn't fair for everybody, we just got to step our game up as individuals and not get bitter, but get better. But we got to recognize that it's not fair, man. Like, you know, like you got a lot of people out there that are not treated well. Yeah. Yeah, you can make a lot, you can, you can look at a lot of people and say that's an example of what's possible. Yep. Right? Like, Chappelle, that's what's possible. Yeah. You know, Chris Rock, that's what's possible, you know, like all of those got, you know what I mean? But it's tough. It's tough. And we can't forget the everyday people. You know, there are people that really, really, really are getting a.

Starting point is 00:27:41 raw deal out here. Do you think about yourself as a symbol much? You know, that's an interesting question. I really don't think of myself as a symbol because I mean, it's a lot of a person. That's like I'm a symbol. It's like some megalomania, you know, what you're saying is like Dave and Chris or you and Will and hip hop or like, like, oh, it's possible. It's an option. It's an option, but here's the thing, you know, look, the stars have to line up. Oh. And we can't act like, Because guess what? Everybody's not you. Everybody's not, you know, Tom Cruise.

Starting point is 00:28:16 No. Everybody, you know, every white guy is not Tom Cruise. So, so it's no different for any race of people, right? Like, or any ethnicity. Like, like, everybody doesn't have that set of skills, that skill set. Everybody's not going to be Michael Jordan. Everybody, you just, so we got to think about the average person out there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:36 The everyday guy or everyday woman who's dealing with what they're dealing with and try to figure out how to give them some inspiration in a way to make their dreams come true. Or it's also just like you gave them a bunch of songs. You know what I mean? Well, that's just entertained. I mean, it's like you gave, you give people some, like it's fun. Yeah, well, that's how, look, that's the beauty of it, right?

Starting point is 00:28:59 And I have 100 and something episodes of the TV shit, like. A lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And all of that's cool, but the flip side of that is that, you know, you do what you can, right? You do what you can with what you have. So yeah, I give them the shows.

Starting point is 00:29:16 I give them the music. I try to make people's lives a little bit better. Maybe they can live vicariously through this character, or maybe they can listen to this song and help them. If I see them in the street, I can shake their hands, say hello. You know, but I just don't want to, what happens is people get caught up in these Hollywood bubbles or these hip-hop music bubbles, and they kind of forget.

Starting point is 00:29:37 You live in the valley. Yeah, oh, yeah, I'm so in the valley. Oh, my God. But you're not in. Oh, no, my God. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm Encino. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm way out and about.

Starting point is 00:29:48 Come on, man. People getting these bubbles. He don't need to be in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous. I mean, in like a couple years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm out of, I'm done with all that. Go to California.

Starting point is 00:29:57 Yeah, yeah, yeah. When they, when they, oh, my God. Put it out of you. When you, when you. This guy lives on the 101. You know, this fucking guy's on the 101. All day long, just pressing it. Pedal to the metal.

Starting point is 00:30:09 Driver. Is that true? No. Yeah, it's, we just can't forget about real people. No, of course not. Here's what I want to transition to. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Look, there's plenty of reasons why you put up getting support.

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Starting point is 00:30:52 I always assume that everyone's on the same page that we're all following the same rules. And I've slowly learned over a long time, and that's kind of what the podcast is about, that we're not all playing by the same rules at all. maybe there are rules that I'm playing by that other people aren't and they're mad at me, but I have to say my rules are pretty great and they're pretty special. I'm saying, I say this total objectivity. So that's been a big one for me talking to, I've talked to therapy about it endlessly. I've talked about it with my lady endlessly. And, and that's a thing you could talk about in therapy is like, what are your assumptions? How do you get there? Unpack it and try to stop doing it. and enter every situation or as many situations as you can with your eyes open. Anyhow, here's it's called action.

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Starting point is 00:32:45 restaurants costs are crazy. And I'm so I'm not even blaming the restaurants. And then apps. And the thing about apps is you think, you think you're, it's cool that you're only paying $37 because they crossed out $44. And you're like, well, they're doing me a favor because they couldn't have crossed it out if they weren't good people giving a guy that they care about a deal. that's where Cook Unity comes in. I like eating. I like food. I like good food.

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Starting point is 00:35:12 So the thing about the hip-hop thing of like the, it's demand, like, part of the genre, a big part of the genre is dominance, right? You also have an abstract streak that I found pink cookies in a plastic bag. Yeah. How old are you? When, then, when I wrote that? It's just 24, 25. Just like, that's not, it's really.

Starting point is 00:35:35 abstract and did you feel like you were pushing limped like did you even think about what you were doing or you just got like i need 14 songs ish let's go you know what neil i'll tell you the honest question the honest truth i do whatever i want to do musically with absolutely no rules and i don't care about perception. Genuine. Did you have to fight for it? I didn't have to fight for it, but everybody doesn't understand everything I do. Like, you know, even the love songs early on. Like, you know, there was record company people were like, oh, don't do it. I hate it. Yeah, was I need love like the first ballad? Yeah, like the first really romantic hip-hop ballad, yeah, it was. And was it just you need love? I mean, like, what was it? It was exactly that. It was that simple. How can I get this message out

Starting point is 00:36:29 that I need love? Well, well, well, Well, it's that part, but, you know. No, but you know what I mean? Like, it is a weird. Even that's like, that's a fucking choice. Because it's the truth. See, what it is is, you know, the truth is revolutionary. I agree.

Starting point is 00:36:44 You know, a lot of times people, you know, lies, people are so used to hearing lies that when they hear some truth, they're like, oh, man, wait a minute. That's different. That's, it was the truth. He needed love. And guess what? And guess what? admitting that is tougher than 20 umbads Mike he just dropped it Mike he took a sip

Starting point is 00:37:10 why well I know I will know why I think why do you think I because in that genre and in that in our culture at that time any vulnerability was perceived as weakness and weakness was a no-no that was your first or second album that was my second album

Starting point is 00:37:31 But I had love-leaning romantic-ish records on the first album. They just didn't have the orchestration that made them. Right. Rick Rubin kind of kept it a little more. Yeah. But if you listen to the messages in the songs, they were there. Yeah. No, it's so, it's such a funny. It's so specific.

Starting point is 00:37:53 Did you, were you worried? No. Or can I guess guys reaction, man, this is some bitch. Yeah. Yeah. But then like a week later, they were like, yeah, man? Yeah, yeah. All of that.

Starting point is 00:38:05 But you know, when you grew up in a neighborhood where I grew up and you're around the kind of characters I was around, you know what matters. You know what I'm saying? So eventually everyone came around. Enough of them did. It did very well. I mean, I'm sure not everybody. But, yes, it did extremely well. Did people judge you for...

Starting point is 00:38:26 Yes. Yes. Why? C. What other... Hi! Yeah. What other languages can I say yes?

Starting point is 00:38:36 You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, so it was like, did they feel like you were pandering to women or did it feel like... There's no way it could have been pandering because it was too true. It was so true that it gets... It cut through all of the... This idea of beta, all this pan... But was it like, oh, was anybody like, oh, wait, we can do that?

Starting point is 00:38:57 That was more of the reaction. Ultimately, ultimately in hip hop, between that and the few other songs that followed, a whole lane in hip hop was opened up that catered to females. Although I Need Love wasn't catering to females. I Need Love was actually a young boy talking about what he needed. It wasn't about like, I want to say this. It wasn't the cynical thing it thought is, oh, he said that for women. But if you get, if you're not cynical about it and you deal with just the truth,

Starting point is 00:39:33 I'm just telling you what I need. Did, yeah, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, did it go number one and everything? It did really well. Yeah, like, you know, I don't think it went number one like pop, but hip hop at that time was not embraced by pop radio. And, you know, it wasn't until really, I mean, the message a little bit, but even that, a lot of those songs that,

Starting point is 00:39:59 that time. It wasn't until the Beastie Boys, you know, because you still, you got to remember, a lot of my rap career was still at a time. I mean, not that it's changed that much, but radio was very segregated, you know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like LL Cool J was going to play on certain stations. Yeah. It just wasn't going to, even if they loved the song. They could love going back to Cali and give you a reason why they couldn't play. Yeah, going back to Cali, again, dude, these are real abstract, unique. the themes, you're talking about stuff that people were not talking about and making it the hook,

Starting point is 00:40:36 making it the center of the song. Yeah. And it wasn't a thing you were even intentionally trying to do. No, I was observing the world. I was just observing the world and just doing what I want to do. And, you know, if it works, it works. And if it doesn't, I'll just do something else. And the whole time you're thinking about acting?

Starting point is 00:40:57 I was thinking about it. as well. Yeah. When did you start working out, by the way? Because that seems like... That was like... I mean, on my second album cover on the back of it on... Oh, yeah, you're already... Yeah. Yeah. Day one. Chain. Since I've... Absolutely. Chain. You know what I mean? Day one. Slow-mo. You know what I mean? Not black and white. Not black and white, but like, it looks black and white. It's got sort of a huge... What's they called a chrome? It's got a... Cropia. Cepia. Yeah. Sepea tone. This guy in slowmo and his 20s. It's not the thick muscle.

Starting point is 00:41:31 It's not the thick old man muscle now. You know, lean 20s. Lean and mean. Just working out where you can do them push-ups on walls. Yeah, just just- No trainer. We didn't even know what trainers were. Nah, not.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Okay, so you start, do you want to act because how much of this is just I need to make a living? Hardly any of it. It's, I'm an artist? It's, I'm an expressionist. I didn't know what an artist was. Or yeah, or I have some shit burning a hole in my pocket that I need to get out. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:42:05 You know what I'm saying? I have things I want to say. With acting, it's just seeing Bruce Lee. You have offended my family? You've heard Eddie Murphy say the reason he carries the gun in 48 hours. I have a gun and I'll pop a cap in your ass. Is because he was the way, and now Beverly Hills Cop. The way Eddie moves and Beverly Hills Cop is like, I'm doing Bruce Lee.

Starting point is 00:42:31 Yo, Bruce was that impactful, man. And Bruce, you know, for me, you know, I mean, he was tan enough. I took it. I mean, I took it and ran with it. He's top five in like black icons up until 1990. He's top five, right? I mean, I think he's probably just one of the biggest icons in the world, period. But like, when Enter the Dragon came out, dudes were doing karate home.

Starting point is 00:42:59 100%. 100%. I used to be standing on Jamaica Avenue with a game of death suit on some Chinese slippers. Straight up. Straight up. Straight up. Yeah, like this guy. Absolutely. I mailed it. Shuriken, noonchaku, three-sectional staffs, long spears. You know, yo, yo, yo, yo. I was with it. I wanted all the smoke. I wanted all the smoke. So you were like, if I can do- Man, I got in trouble in junior high throwing Shuriken stars, man.

Starting point is 00:43:35 Hit a girl in the back of the air. By mistake. You had, you brought a star to school? Stars, not a star. Multiple stars. In your pants, socks. The teachers up at the chalkboard, hit the chalkboard.

Starting point is 00:43:49 They look around, who threw that? You know. Where do you store it? In your sock. In my pocket. All right. Real smart. Genius.

Starting point is 00:43:57 Fell asleep together. Getaway car. Excuse me, get out. Could you get out? So you were like, if I can be like that? Yeah, if I could be strong. But remember, he was strong. Like, even Jim Kelly, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:44:10 he wasn't getting put in the back of the cop car. He was fighting. Bruce Lee was strong. He was different. He was other, which was enough to grasp on to. Because those Saturday mornings in New York, when we're watching Kung Fu movies or martial arts.

Starting point is 00:44:28 movies, that was inspiration for us. So it's like another way to not be invisible. It's just another way to, and to not be weak. Because martial arts, for somebody growing up in the inner city, when you growing up in the inner city, guys don't walk bent over because they're trying to be tough. They walk bent over because they're on alert. They're trying to be low.

Starting point is 00:44:47 They're trying to stay away from whatever might be out there. It's like, it's like, think about a lion, the way lions walk around. They stay low, they move low. You know what I mean? It's a jungle. So the mindset is different. You know what I'm saying? Well, I'm sure.

Starting point is 00:45:01 You have a song about this, don't you have an album named after this? Oh, Walking with a Panther, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, you've done it was on catalog. Yeah, yeah. I own it. I own his catalog. It belongs to me now.

Starting point is 00:45:14 The, so you're like, I'm going to, I'm going to rap. I'm going to do this for as long as, as long, like, there is no, nothing lasts forever, but it can last a lifetime. The guys that I started with, they're guys that I started with that never necessarily had big giant explosive careers or records that went number, whatever, but they still do it. Some older than me, some younger than me, they still do it. It's like it was a group of artists or expressionists

Starting point is 00:45:47 who, emcees, people that love hip-hop, that just kept doing it. I love it. And the other thing is there was no career path. That wasn't even really like, I didn't hear the word career until Russell said one time I like overslept for a video shoot and he was like, Joe career. I was like, I have a career. Like career. What's a career? Yeah. What is a career? Like who had a career? Nobody. Yeah, nobody. We didn't even know what that meant. And there was no paradigm because it's not like. No, there was no managers that did hip hop. There was no publicists who had. handled hip hop. There were no major labels who did hip hop. You know, radio. Hip hop wasn't even on the radio, Neil, during the daytime, during the week. It only played at night on the weekends.

Starting point is 00:46:39 And touring was like a pain. Like they, you couldn't get insurance and there was that, but that was even later. That was when it got a little bigger. Oh, I'm remembering a story. You're talking about Raising Hell. Were you at the Long Beach? Yeah, that's Raising Hell tour. Yeah, we're running them and Houdini and all. You wore the wrong hat? Well, I had a color on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had red on. I think I came out with red on or something. But it wasn't because of me.

Starting point is 00:47:05 No, no, no, no. It was a lot going on out there. The gang issue preceded you. I just remember you came out. This is Beasie Boys. That's happened a couple of times. Where you came out in the wrong hat, wrong color. You came out in the color and it may be the opposite.

Starting point is 00:47:18 It's not that they were revolting. It might be against one. They were excited. Yeah. It could be that. They showed too much support. It could be that, you know. Okay, so then you're like, I'm going to start acting and even that.

Starting point is 00:47:33 You don't, they're, who was, who was doing, nobody was doing that, right? You came out before Will Smith, so it's not like anybody. Yeah, as an artist, yeah, I didn't have, I didn't have a lot of people to follow. Well, that even just, but, but I did do crush groove and running them hair crust groove. Sorry, man, auditions are over today, all right? You got to come back next week, maybe we could work something out, all right? Box. And they were acting in the movie, but it was.

Starting point is 00:47:56 it was so much about what we were doing in music at the time that we didn't even think about the acting aspect of it. Yeah. It wasn't even about the acting. It was just about, you know, the fact that... Yeah, you were on and you were on and we're doing music and we're making a movie too. Yeah, and the movie's basically like,

Starting point is 00:48:15 we're on, every scene's like, we're on and we're doing music. Exactly, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, it was a trip, man. Okay, so I should say one of the things you wish you knew earlier, one of his for the new theme, I wish I knew sooner, your value. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:32 Which a lot of this contradicts that. When does your, when do you start? So there are a big portion to this that you're not aware of your own value, you just have a burning ambition to be. That's right. And so, and why does that matter? Because then you know what to say no to. When it comes to deals, when it comes to certain shows,

Starting point is 00:48:54 when it comes a certain request. But then the other thing I put on there is how to be friendly. I didn't mean friendly. Do value first. But so with value, it was just knowing how to say no. A lot of people, and I'm talking about no to like a deal or a contract or a possibility or ask for more, right?

Starting point is 00:49:18 Knowing how to ask for more. A lot of us. Same thing of like, if they had said you get no points, who would have been fine, you know, like, I'm just happy to be here. Exactly. Whereas I probably, based on my talent and the quality of what I was creating, could have said, no, I need X. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:33 I need Y. And I probably could have dictated a lot more of that a lot earlier. You know what I mean? When do you think you could have dictated it? You were almost, almost immediately. You had. Almost immediate. Right after my first album.

Starting point is 00:49:48 Yeah, like, it was, there was, it was, it was, the field was not. crowded. It was like, that's right. It was not like a 10 person 100 meter. This was just like, you, you were the only one who got an unplug like, like the only hip hop, right? Well, they there were eventually, but like on the bill tribe was on. Right. Like, you know, there's a few people wanted, but yeah, you know, I was. And you hit so many, you hit women, you had young. I mean, you had, you had, you had hit. It was like really. So yeah, yeah, and you were still. kind of happy to be there. Exactly. And like, oh, whatever you guys say, mister.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Not totally that, but just kind of not as shrewd. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not quite as polished and as shrewd as I should have been. Without jumping the shark and turning into a monster. Right. Just not quite as shrewd. You feel me? Yeah. Like, that's just the honest truth. Do you think there's a way to do it that you're sort of a deal monster and not a not a human monster? Yes. 100%.

Starting point is 00:51:02 I do it now. Yeah. 100%. I think you're a monster. Yeah, well, yeah. Monster! Yeah. But, yeah, I guess I'm saying

Starting point is 00:51:11 you just wish you'd been more like I mean, it was an opportunity. I wouldn't say, so let me, I got to qualify it and I know it's the format, but reality is I wouldn't change anything. Of course. I just got, what I got to say. It goes outside, yeah. I wouldn't change anything.

Starting point is 00:51:26 That being said, there was an opportunity. in hindsight to make a few different moves with certain aspects of certain things. Yeah. And all I had to do is hold the line a little bit and know who I am. And that goes, but you know what? And I will take this moment

Starting point is 00:51:43 to kind of point to the audience and say there are people out there who don't know their value and they have to know that they're worth more. Yeah. And don't overestimate yourself, but don't underestimate or undervalue yourself either. Don't let humility slide into foolishness, if that's the right word or-

Starting point is 00:52:05 Absolutely. You know what I mean? I got a question. Yeah. Did you dream big enough? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Meaning if you see Will Smith's an obvious example, but where you go, oh, damn. Meaning when people heard any love or they heard like your songs

Starting point is 00:52:22 and they're like, oh shit, we can do that? Were there things that you saw other dudes do dude that you were like, damn, we can do. No. Okay. So there was no, there was not, not, I'm not talking about Will, Will. I know what you mean, but you know what I mean where you're like. People you see people do. No. No, nobody did a stage show or like, uh, like, not at that time. No. Yeah. No, there are obviously people who went to another level, but that was later when I was doing other things. Right. And so I've always, I felt continue to elevate. Yeah. Because I, by the way,

Starting point is 00:52:55 being younger but like being in the fan demo I never thought you were like you were at the edge of what what you were at the vanguard of what hip hop artists were allowed to do at that point 100% like fucking I was pushing it yeah like in a way so it's so I'm asked it's kind of a shitty question because it's like not really a shitty question no because you're doing like but when you look at got like then will does it then Jay Z then you're just like god damn like I mean

Starting point is 00:53:25 obviously you're proud of them, I would think. I'm happy for them and all that they accomplished. Impressed or whatever. I know that the opportunity was different. The platform is different. Yeah. Like, you know, can you imagine me having I need love and Instagram? I forget it.

Starting point is 00:53:42 Like, think about I need love and I have an Instagram. I'd have 400 million followers. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. So I can't. Yeah. So that's what I'm with you.

Starting point is 00:53:55 That's why when I see guys doing amazing things, I know that they did those things at a different time and place. And because of the context, in the context, the Wright brothers did what they did in the context of that time with the knowledge that they had of physics. I'm not going to try to compare them to an F-35 or an F-15. You know what I mean? I did what I could do in the context of the time I was in with the tools that were given to us and the roads that we could go down. You know, and I even pulled out a sword too and a shovel and dug through some mountains and didn't the best I could. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:33 So now, yes, people are doing stadiums and they're doing great things and I think it's phenomenal. I did the best I could. Like I give you an example, like, there was a time when I would not headline a tour simply because I like the crowd to be fresh. That's so funny. And I didn't like them to. Dude, when I see these lineups, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:54:57 you're going on two and a half hours into this show. You see what I'm saying? But what it did was now, but here's the flip side. The flip side is you don't grow your touring business. Because what happens is one of the side effects is the person who, even though I'm the attraction, the person who goes on last gets the credit. Yeah, they get in the box office magazine.

Starting point is 00:55:19 Yeah, yeah. You feel me? Yeah. So I did that for years. For years. You wouldn't be the biggest font. I would, no, I didn't care about the font. But it's not too.

Starting point is 00:55:29 But yes, yes, yes. If they were, if they were tied together, I would go on in the middle of the show. You know, this is L.L. Cool J., but I'm going on, you know, halfway through the show because I want to be seen by the fresh crowd and I care about that more than the business. So- And you never did the thing of like, get them.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Like, go on last and- Nope. Ultimately, but a lot later in my career. Right. When you, you know, and that's like a thousand years later, right? Like you had 15, 20, 30 years to build it up to that point. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:56:04 You can't, it doesn't work retroactively. So yes, you could still do well. Yes, I still do arenas. Yes. But it's not like as if I built a touring business from the beginning. Yeah. And you see what I'm saying? Yeah, of course.

Starting point is 00:56:19 Do you? Yeah. So that's the value thing. When you do a live show, how many songs are you like confident in like all of them

Starting point is 00:56:30 how many songs you're doing? I do probably it depends on the it depends on what kind of show right if you're doing it if you're doing an 18 song show is there a dip? No that's no not even close where how many songs would they have to be a dip

Starting point is 00:56:45 well you are the kind of artist that people know all your songs well here's the thing about songs. It's not just about familiarity, it's about energy. I go to YouTube concerts. Yeah. I'm not a core YouTube fan, but I like their show. Yeah. I know five, I know vertigo and hello and a couple of, I can't really go through their discography, but I can rock the show because of what they bring to the show. So when you come to an LL. You also, you feel other people's feeling about the song? You feel the energy, like energy. I'm with you.

Starting point is 00:57:20 energy has a lot to do with live performance. It's not like a lot of people don't notice, country artists, a lot of country music is great live. You have a lot of people who aren't fans of country. Yeah. But if they saw country artists live, they would be surprised because of all the storytelling is fun. They're kicking it up, their shit kicking, it's crazy,

Starting point is 00:57:43 the crowd is laughing. It's a vibe. Yeah. So with LL Cool J is kind of a lot of that. So yes, I have a lot of big hits and some pop hits and some just street hits and hip hop hits and all of that. But I also have songs that just work live. You open with Rock the Bells?

Starting point is 00:58:03 I mean, I don't, but that's not a bad idea. I mean, it seems like that. I've done it before. I have done that before. But I've also opened with Mama's to knock you out. You challenge yourself? Is that a challenge to open with that? Not at all. If you open with Mama said, what do you close with?

Starting point is 00:58:18 I could close with Rock the Bells. I could close when I'm bad. I close with I'm bad. Absolutely. Huh. Spare production. You know what I mean? November 29th.

Starting point is 00:58:32 Prudential Center. Prudential Center. I challenge anyone. Have you ever known more chemicals or hormone names in your life? Serotonin, dopamine, testosterone, estradiol. You know them all. They're all so great. We know them all because that's,

Starting point is 00:58:49 the time we live in, but also the big one that people don't talk about is cortisol. That's the, that's a big boy. Basically, if you don't feel good, it's probably cortisol. Cortisol's hands, fingerprints are all over you not feeling good. Especially the older you got. Older you got, cool thing is you get smarter, you get happier, but you feel physically worse and you have less energy. Unless you do stuff, that's where Mars Men comes in.

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Starting point is 01:01:30 And I was like, I'm not going to do that, but I'll do, how about I do an ad about being old? Which is, hey, hey, fam, you've been thinking about life insurance? I have, you ever, you ever thought about a will? I have, um, I'm not to brag, but I'm, I could die. More likely to die now than I've ever been. Every day. more likely to die. Pretty great, pretty great time. If you're married or have loved ones that rely on you, you need a system, right? Life insurance. It's where life insurance comes in. It's uncomfortable.

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Starting point is 01:03:16 Okay, how to be a leader. Leader, yeah. Wish you knew sooner. Yeah. Because when I was younger, I thought leading was about being tough and being fearless and being kind of being able to call every shot. But that's not really what leadership is. I don't think men get bad examples because in movies it's all military and in life.

Starting point is 01:03:43 It's kind of all military and sports coaches. Yeah, and the reality is, leadership is, yo, you want a sandwich? Meaning empathy? Meaning being willing to go to the map for your people, being willing to do the things that you ask your people to do. Being smart enough to not put your people in positions that endanger them and thus they're able to keep you out of danger. It's empathy, but it's also... not caring so much that you can't make decisions. And it's also the ability to make decisions, right?

Starting point is 01:04:24 And a lot of that, but you got to know your value, right? Because you can't really, it goes back to the value thing, the value proposition, right? If I don't know my value, then I can't really lead. Because I don't know when the total line. Yeah, you don't know the value of your, whatever you're fighting for. What are the, what are the areas in which you think of yourself as a leader? Well, now I'm a leader in oil.

Starting point is 01:04:47 areas of my life. But what I mean is like on set, I'm a leader. You're the, so you think, because I agree with you, it's it, the lead, the number one or two on the call sheet is like how they behave is sort of like, well, I'm not only number one. I'm executive producer, right? Um, it's not about the number on the call sheet, although it is, it's about how you see other people. Do you care? Are you willing to be on time? Do you care that if you, you show up late because your home spraying your neck with fine cologne that 250 people aren't going to see their families this weekend because you're late?

Starting point is 01:05:24 Yeah. Do you know how to go over and sit in the corner and be miserable by yourself when you're not in the mood? Or do you like to infect the entire organization? Yeah. My people know when I have one of them days. Did you improve at that? Did you used to infect it and go, I got to stop doing this?

Starting point is 01:05:45 Well, yeah. Yeah, you get better. You learn. You learn, man. I mean, you know, but that's life. It's like the supervisor at your job. You know, look, leaders create the weather, man. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, you know, if you come in with the thunderstorms and the gray clouds, that's what your whole, your whole organization is going to be dealing with. Have you checked people on the set that were being shitty? Or have you kind of led by, you? I think you have to lead by example, but then every now and then you can pull somebody to the side, not embarrass them, and tell them this is how we run things, this is how I like it to be. And I think that's okay. And you don't want to embarrass them, but, you know,

Starting point is 01:06:29 because everybody can't take it, right? It depends on an individual. Some people you could talk to out in the public. Some people are very prideful. You got pulling to the side. So, you know, it depends, right? Yeah. So you, and you just find, like, you went from,

Starting point is 01:06:44 because you're young, right? You're young on these sets. You don't know. You're young on in a student. You're young in your career. When did you feel like, was there a moment where you allowed someone else to lead and they were wrong? You were like, I need to stop doing it. Well, it's more about sometimes it's as simple as just learning what not to do.

Starting point is 01:07:04 You know what I mean? You see people, you see leaders or you see people that are in a position where they should lead and they're leading it wrong. They're doing the wrong things. So you know what not to do. Yeah. You know, like a writer's room. Like you're in the writer's room

Starting point is 01:07:18 and you guys are spitballing jokes and coming up with stuff. And this guy who's supposed to be the guy is doing stuff and you guys are looking at each other like, are you serious? And when you become, you get in that slot, you're like, okay, this is how it needs to be done. This is how you treat people the right way.

Starting point is 01:07:33 Well, you know, a lot of people, when they get the musician, they go, now it's my turn to yell. Yeah, and that's completely wrong. And that's, and that is, yeah, you're right. And that's, you're absolutely right. A lot of people parent that way. Yeah, that's right. And you can almost feel, I can feel the appeal.

Starting point is 01:07:50 I don't know if your dad was a yeller, but like, I understand. Like, you know, it's funny. My grandmother was a yeller, but she was like a harmless yeller. It felt fairly harmless. Yeah. Does that make any sense? Yeah, of course. It wasn't traumatic.

Starting point is 01:08:08 Like, you know, it was just like, okay. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But you're right.

Starting point is 01:08:16 So my thing is, this is my thing. Treat men like men, treat people like people, right? Respect people. I'm not, you know, I'm going to, if you're a janitor, I'm going to treat you the same way. If you're a president, I'm going to treat you the same way. There's no difference. There is no difference.

Starting point is 01:08:33 There may be a difference in the protocol or how I walk into your office and all that, but that's on you. But in terms of I'm going to have the same manners because I learned a long time ago, you know, just growing up in question, running around in Harlem, running around with hustlers, running around and doing different things,

Starting point is 01:08:48 matters go a long way. Yeah. And having your chest poked out and trying to be, you know, I'm the king of whatever, you know, the only place that was ever appropriate to me was on the records. That's when I want to go fall out. Yeah, what was the, what were you, what was your sort of like approach for,

Starting point is 01:09:06 because again, there's not a lot of famous black dudes back then. There's not a lot of hip-hop artists doing that well. There's not, like, you were a target, for sure. How'd you deal with it? On a street level, I mean, I just hung out with, you know, the toughest guys in New York, basically, and the most well-known guys in New York. Like, once you hit, you were like, so can I speak to a...

Starting point is 01:09:26 Even before I hit. Okay. Even before I hit, I was, because they were the only ones with money, so I was interested in what's going on over here. It's a lot of shiny objects over here. You know what I mean? What's that? Yeah, what's that? Okay.

Starting point is 01:09:38 Is that Mercedes? Okay. You know what I mean? Mercedes. Mercedes, all right? Exactly. So what you learn, there's also a rites of passage that comes with hanging around certain types of people. You learn how to be a gentleman. It's not all bad.

Starting point is 01:09:56 It's not all wrong. You learn how to have manners because when you're dealing with people who are dealing with life and death circumstances on a daily basis, you learn how to not run your mouth. You learn how to say I'm bad on the record. Right. And then when the record stops, I'm bad stops. Right? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:20 Did you, you know that? Because on the first album, you're not ripped. On the first album, you're skinny. I innately knew that because my grandmother would always tell me, Todd, you get more flies with sugar than you do with salt. Right. And so just knowing that, just that little bit of wisdom, I'm out here, I'm not going to go to salty route with individual X over here. who could have the whole neighborhood chasing me down, you know, the alley. And they are, they have, in some ways, they have the luxury of being,

Starting point is 01:10:53 because they have such reputations that they have the luxury of being, like, kind and smooth and like. And that's right. And that's right. And that is a luxury. But you know what? There's the flip side of that is, if you think about it, especially in the street, the guys who act like that, whether doing wrong or right, whatever, they're more beloved.

Starting point is 01:11:11 And the guys who run around just poking their chest out, putting their finger in every guy's chest, trying to be the biggest guy in the room, always flexing, and they end up in not a great... Bullies don't last. Yeah, for the most part, yeah. They don't. Yep. Bullies do not last.

Starting point is 01:11:31 It's kind of fun to watch, but they always end up floating in the water fountain, like Scarface at the end. You know, And you learn that just, you know, just growing up in Queens, running around at Harlem, I learned that early. So. But I still, but it, I don't think that's, it's, it might be like, people know it, but it's hard to practice it.

Starting point is 01:11:59 Because, because you get, you get money, you get all the shit. You want to flex and you want to, and you want to, you want to, you want to, you want to, you want to, you want to push up on people. You're right. But, you know, the thing is, when you get to see guys how they deal with money, you know, Did you get good lessons from those guys money-wise? Some. Some.

Starting point is 01:12:19 But more about kindness, man. More about giving a homeless guy a $50 bill. Right. That goes a long way. Yeah. More about like, yo, you know, I had a big lesson. I remember one time, you know, I was on the block. And I had come home from a show, you know, I was about 16, 17,

Starting point is 01:12:38 one of the guys on the block. You got paid for the show? A little bit money, a little bit, enough, you know. All right. as much as stand up. Yeah, I got, no, I definitely got, you know, I definitely got, 17. I definitely got paid. No, I was, I was doing okay.

Starting point is 01:12:52 Like a real show? Yes, yes, yes. Like thousands of dollars. Yes, yes, yes. And you're on the block and it's 11. Yes, but not like a thousand, like a zillion thousand, maybe five thousand. Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:04 Let's, yeah, something like that, right? In the tri-state area. Right, right there. Yep. So, you know, still a lot of money. Yep. You got some money on you. You're doing good.

Starting point is 01:13:14 you know, you're not Michael Jackson. No. Where would you put the money? Oh, in my dresser draw. It was ridiculous. Yeah, it was no mutual funds. It was no Walmart stock. What kind of return you're getting on that?

Starting point is 01:13:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, lint. Yeah. Lint, yeah. And a guy said to me, he said, yo, he said, yo, Elle, man, why don't you come out the store with some 40s? And I remember as a little kid, at that time, I didn't understand that. I was like, uh-uh.

Starting point is 01:13:40 Because I couldn't tell whether, I couldn't tell whether he, he really wanted the 40s or he was trying to press me. Mm-hmm. You know, so one of my man kind of, he got upset and my man broke it up. But I just learned, you gotta learn how to gauge kindness. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:57 Like certain things, you know, but I always like to do right by people. I always try to do right by people. But it's doing right by people is not just about, it's not about money, it's about treating people like people. Yeah, it's like seeing and caring about people. Yeah. Caring about their families, caring. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:14:14 And so I just learned. I think for someone like you to be regular around people would feel like a gift. Do you know what I mean? It's the only way I know how to act. I believe it. But I've been with people are like, I met Aluccolda.

Starting point is 01:14:27 He was really nice. He took a picture with me. Do you know how boring and corny it is to just walk around like in star mode? I don't even know what that's about. It's got to be the most. It's like a prison. Like I'm not.

Starting point is 01:14:43 Doing that to myself. Yeah. I'm not interested in trying to be, yo, what you see is what you get with me. Yeah. Straight up. You know what I mean? Like, if someone doesn't like me,

Starting point is 01:14:55 it's probably, it's either a misunderstanding between us or it just is what it is. But what it ain't is me trying to be Mr. Whatever. Right. You know what I mean? How to be a friend. That's a very good one, and I'm dying to hear with you.

Starting point is 01:15:06 The thing you wished you knew sooner was how to be a friend. How to be a friend, which means. You know, and I don't know if you can relate, but I'm a bit of an introvert, even though we're having this conversation. I'm an introvert. So, you know, part of that is I don't want to go to the parties.

Starting point is 01:15:24 I don't want to go to your thing, your card games, and all of that stuff, not realizing that for extroverts or certain people, that deeply affects them. They are deeply affected by you not showing up because they feel like you're not showing up for them. Right. And in reality, you're just kind of not into it because it's draining your energy. Yeah, that was the thing I wish I knew a little bit more.

Starting point is 01:15:53 Just go. Some of the things. Not everything, but there was a few times when I probably had guys that were working on my behalf on things, promotions people, people throwing poker games, people throwing little games, and I wouldn't go and wouldn't really go out of my way to explain why. I didn't go. Yeah. And because of that, I think they walked away like,

Starting point is 01:16:16 oh, this guy thinks he's X or you don't care. You know what I mean? Because people, whenever there's a blank space, a lot of times people fill that narrative in with a negative. Yeah, especially if someone's high status. Right. So that's why I wish I knew. And even if it was, hey, I didn't go,

Starting point is 01:16:33 but this is, you know, X, Y, and Z, at least, not that I owe the whole world of explanation all the time, but there were times when I found. I felt like I should have. And are you the kind of person that goes to parties and then goes like, what did I say to that person? Are you like an obsessor? No.

Starting point is 01:16:52 No. You don't doubt? No, I said what I said. No, it is what it is, B. You got something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I see why you need a makeup woman. This guy can't even do his own chapsed.

Starting point is 01:17:03 Yeah, yeah, I'm bad at that. Real bad. I don't know if that's bad or good. That might be kind of good. I mean, if I was like excellent at it? No, I know. I know. I know.

Starting point is 01:17:12 that putting on a joke. There are people who would bet your great at it. They would be wrong. I'm going to leave that in the podcast just as proof. This guy is as human as he can't even do as he had a whole fleck over here, guys. Yeah, my man had mashed potatoes on his joints. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:28 Okay, so you, this shit worked out. It did. He did, bro. Like, yo, I could, I could, listen, listen, I can't even explain. I can't call it, man. It really did work out, and I'm thankful. You know, I'm just doing the same. Do you ever think yourself as good looking?

Starting point is 01:17:48 No. I don't even think about that. I don't even... I believe you, by the way. Yeah. Because that's... You know, every five minutes is somebody putting on my motto, or I've got the...

Starting point is 01:17:58 You know? Like, no. No, I don't even... I don't even operate in them terms, bro. Like... Right, but when you were a sex symbol, I guess you were like... Let me tell you something.

Starting point is 01:18:11 You ever wrote through the hood? Never. I'm kidding. Yeah, you peruse the hood a couple. You've been to go ahead. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Just for, you ever seen, you ever seen? To film hood locations, of course.

Starting point is 01:18:24 Ever seen about like, you know, a bunch of 16, 15, 15, 17-year-olds with no shirts on? Yeah. Run around. Some of them are fat, some of them skinny? Yep. I just took my shirt off, bro. Yeah. It wasn't like, ha ha!

Starting point is 01:18:35 Now, when I got older, we become more aware of it. Because of the music and you start hearing more things and all of that. and it becomes more of a thing. But initially, it's just... Did you take your shirt off on the first album a lot at all? Is the cover, you're wearing an Adidas thing? Yeah, no, the cover I have like a, like a, like a, like a,

Starting point is 01:18:53 like a, like a, like a, like a, like a Tigre, I think, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, more the second album, more than like 87. Was that? But that came from live music though, from doing live music. And it's hot and you take your shirt up. Yeah, you take your shirt off. Yeah, you take your shirt off.

Starting point is 01:19:05 Yeah, you're not, it's not like, you know, think about you go over, you see your nephews. Your nephew comes running out the house in the summertime. He's standing out there and he's got no shirt on. Yeah. He's not out there. No, of course not. You know, look at my surrogis.

Starting point is 01:19:20 But you have dimples that, the dimples are helping. I mean, okay, I'll take it. I'll take it. What? Good skin, like, you have a, you have a good package. Hey, I'll, hey. You have a good. You're going too far.

Starting point is 01:19:33 What was that? What was that? What was the thing? Yeah, pause. I don't even say pause, but yeah, we got to pause. We got to pause. Yeah, the package it all. All that good talking pause.

Starting point is 01:19:43 Pause. No, but you are, but you, I believe you, when you say you're not especially looks vain. Hell no. It's corny. Like, what are we doing? Like, what is the, what's the thought process behind it? What do I like?

Starting point is 01:19:57 Would your wife be rolling? It's a little silence of the lambsish, like, would you, I, me, I, you know what I mean? It's a little bit of silence of the lambs and that. Would your wife be rolling her eyes right now, or she'd be like, this is true? I think she would say this is true. Yeah, I think you would say this is true.

Starting point is 01:20:13 Can you tell me about the time the guy broke in and you beat him up? This is, again, this is an all, this, I thought it was yesterday. It turns out it was like 10 years ago. It was a long time ago. Yeah, it was terrifying, man. It was terrifying. There was a break in at L.L.'s home, middle of the night in Encino. So you kind of expected.

Starting point is 01:20:31 Yeah, that's that time. And you, and you, everybody thinks they're going to do the thing. Yeah. when he comes in and I'm gonna everyone's gonna be Bruce Ligg. And they're towering in the corner. And then I'm gonna hit him and I'm gonna take, see, I keep. Yeah. Not the C I keep.

Starting point is 01:20:51 You know, yo, you know I keep it all me. You all know me. The C I keep is crazy. You don't know. You know I get. You know I were Jordans to bed. Never paid it full. He said, yo, you know how I was.

Starting point is 01:21:05 So you, but you actually deliver. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. What happened? I mean, you guy came in in the middle of the night and he... You have security? You have... I had an alarm and he, yeah, he, it was, it was like the entry delay. There's a sound that the alarm makes. That gives you an out, if you come through certain doors, right, it gives you an opportunity to turn it all. Oh, right, right, right. You know, it goes, yeah, yeah, so I heard that and it woke me up. I'm like, I'm thinking maybe it's one of my daughters that were young at the time. Maybe they're coming in or something. somebody's trying to sneak in, so I'm like, you know, so I, you know, disarmed the alarm, you know,

Starting point is 01:21:43 because it's like, okay, it's beeping. And then I said, I'm walking down, I'm going, I said, let me go see it. I'm in my drawers and I'm walking, I'm going to see what's happening. And then something said, I'm not going to turn that light on. I just want to see what's happening down. You feel energy?

Starting point is 01:21:56 Yeah, I'm just like, eh, let me just see what's happening. Exactly, exactly. And then I went down there and there he was. Bigger than you, same size? I mean, he was big enough. I was in my drawers. I mean, he wasn't necessarily big in me, but he was wearing all black.

Starting point is 01:22:12 He had a beard and a bag, and he was on. He had a dusty white. He was white. He looked like some, like one of Manson type of, you know. He looked like, you know. He wasn't there to sell me chocolate. Just to reclare, it also scares white people. I would think so.

Starting point is 01:22:28 Yeah. Yeah, this one I think so. Yeah. So from there, we just had to, you know, we had to kind of made the best man win, bro. noises grunts? I mean, other than the words stupid motherfucker. Oh, yeah, did you hit him with like you?

Starting point is 01:22:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah, come to. Yeah, there wasn't know why I order. I'm doing it. A man. You ain't no why I order. Ain't no, I order. More like aorta. You know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 01:22:58 And did you and he was, he was lumped up and you were fine. That's how it ended up. But you broke his orbital? some stuff, but I was, you know what it was? It was terrifying. That's what the thing. You know, I was talking to my friends about it earlier. Like, that kind of stuff is terrifying, man.

Starting point is 01:23:16 Like, you're, it's traumatized. Did you want to move after that? I did. Great. So it was like, okay, well, we can't live here. We can get the best security system in the world. I'll never believe someone's not in the kitchen. Absolutely.

Starting point is 01:23:29 I'm out of here. I mean, it was crazy. I mean, I had my man, like, it was not a good scene. Oh, here's a question I've always had for an intruder. So you whoop his ass, and it takes 15 minutes for the cops to get here. Longer. 25. What's going on?

Starting point is 01:23:46 You're just sitting there with hanging? I'm just, I was just sitting there with my, you know, my deal on his back as he floated in and out of consciousness. Did you put pants on? No. You want him to wake up and see what? I didn't. That, let me tell you something. To be honest with you.

Starting point is 01:24:04 Um, well. Yeah. It wasn't enjoyable. No. Yeah. All right. Well, that's what I was wondering. Like, when people have intruders, it's like, the aftermath of it is like, got to be the

Starting point is 01:24:19 weirdest part. In the aftermath, you're just hungry and starving because you've gone through some crazy stuff. So when it's all over, you just want to eat. When you could, because, you know, those kinds of experiences leave fingerprints on your soul. And anybody who's really been through some real stuff will tell you that after when it was all over, they were starving because your adrenaline goes so crazy.

Starting point is 01:24:37 You know what I'm saying? But in this scenario, it's more about like, you know, you picked the wrong house. Yeah. And it's survival. Without a doubt. And it is not playground stuff. Right. It's stuff that you don't, like, it's not like, you're glad you'd have it, but you're like,

Starting point is 01:24:59 I hope I don't ever have to. I never, ever want to deal with that. Yeah. Ever. Yeah. Because that's not, it's not cute. It's not macho, you know. It's only cute and macho to people that can tell the tale.

Starting point is 01:25:13 But when you're living it, it's not fun. And there's a lot of people in the street, people in law enforcement, different people around the world, I know exactly what I'm saying right now. It's just not cute. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone because you have so many things that go through your mind. Like, it's very dangerous.

Starting point is 01:25:31 Yeah, I believe it. It's very dangerous. And it's dangerous for you too, in many different things. in many different ways. Psychologically. That's right. Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, you find out a lot about yourself.

Starting point is 01:25:46 So. And stuff that you're, a lot of people don't ever deal with it so you don't know exactly how you're reacting. You're like, I reacted well. I protected my family. I protected myself. But like, I reacted appropriately. Right. I wouldn't use the word well. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. It's crazy, man. November 28th. 29th.

Starting point is 01:26:07 29th. And don't forget, NCIS, New York. NCI, I mean, October 6th. This guy is all over the map. L.A. Hawaii, New York. New York is a really different, different contribution to the universe.

Starting point is 01:26:21 I got to say that. Scott Gamble created it. Byron Belasco is our showrunner. He did Kingdom. He's unbelievable. Adam Davidson is our director, one of our director producers. Scott Kahn is with me.

Starting point is 01:26:35 Great. Jennifer Beals is with me. Great. Jacqueline, Shane, Devin. I mean, it's a great group. And it's, um, this is, I think, going to be a really interesting... Have you seen the trailer for it?

Starting point is 01:26:48 I must have. I mean, I want you to see the trailer. You gotta check out the trailer. Maybe... Yeah, I'll put it. New York City. You know this is where the action is? I think that this is a little...

Starting point is 01:26:59 It's still a procedural, but it's a little more character-driven. Yep. A little more story-driven. So it should be a lot of fun for people. I hope they enjoy it. And the main character is New York now. Are you here? We're filming in.

Starting point is 01:27:12 So you're every day. Yes. I never gave up my house in New York even when I went to L.A. Where is it? Is it which borough is there? It's local. Okay. Look, man, I'm, I'm, I really appreciate you doing it.

Starting point is 01:27:31 I'm very happy for you. Thank you. As a fan of it. years for a long time. I'm like really impressed and I'm happy and you seem like you're a decent fucking person. Thank you, Neff. It's a pleasure. Pleasure, bro. Really a pleasure, man. Of course. Really a pleasure. Thanks for having. El O'Cool Jackers. Peace.

Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - LL Cool J: I Wish I Knew

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