Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Matt McCusker

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Neal Brennan interviews Matt McCusker (Matt & Shane's Secret Podcast, New Netflix Special: A Humble Offering) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. 00:00 Intro 00:15 Neal Reacts to Matt’s Special 5:36 Matt & Shane’s Secret Podcast 8:43 Parenting 16:05 Panic Attacks 29:04 Therapy and Psychology 30:14 Sponsor: Huel 32:15 Sponsor: Superpower 34:18 Relationships 37:51 Anger 41:14 Therapy & Self-Help 48:54 How Men Can Deal with the Menstrual Cycle 55:34 Sponsor: Squarespace 57:42 Sponsor: Bubs Naturals 1:00:07 Directionlessness 1:04:28 Dissociation 1:18:48 How his life has improved Thanks to our sponsors! Visit https://www.huel.com/Neal20 to get 20% off online ' Visit https://www.superpower.com/NEAL and use promo code NEAL for $20 off! Visit https://www.squarespace.com/NEAL to save 10% off your first purchase Visit https://www.bubsnaturals.com and use promo code NEAL for 20% off Bubs Naturals. ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is he's got his own podcast called Matt and Shane Seeker podcast. And I thought it was behind the Patreon. And that was my excuse for not watching it. Turns out it's on YouTube once a week. Whoops. And he's got a Netflix special called a humble offering, which is a dick joke in case you're wondering. Because I watched it. There you go.

Some of the bits that stood out for me on your very funny special were your married to a black woman. You call her a black lady, which is so much funnier to me. I love my wife. My wife's a cool lady. And makes her sound 70. Yeah. And I like the bit about her wanting you to confront her grandmother. Yeah, mom.

It's so fucking funny. Yeah. Or her mom. Yeah. Sorry, it would be your kid's grandma. But like the dynamics, that's such a funny angle, the angle of like your white parents and her black parents. Once you have kids, then you have interracial

grandparents. And that can be a little tricky because, like, you know, they're not used to like team building projects as much yet. And like, okay, well, you guys didn't grow up with BED, like, the differences in their lack of cultural understanding

for each other versus someone your age. Oh, yeah. It's so massive. Leagues beyond. Actually, the only, my mom super, super Catholic, she got rid of lot of the music channels in her house, but I only had BET because she wasn't aware of it. So that was the only music channel I had growing up. She's so white, she wasn't even aware of B.E.T. She wasn't, you know, she wasn't aware of black entertainment. And then I, so that was the only music channel I had growing up. Did you grow up around a lot of black people? No. Okay, so when did you,

did you date a lot before your wife? Yeah, I kind of, I can't have ran the spectrum, honestly. Like, I went, once I went to college, I was in Philadelphia. Yeah. Where I was, it was a Catholic school so it was mostly like polish people irish people italians and so that was kind of my that was what i had to work with early on i grew i went to catholic school also archbishop carroll oh nice or as they call it carol the italian names in philly the amount of apostrophies and yeah it was always i've still never seen that level of nonsense yeah i mean they're there that's like the epicenter of just it's new jersey and south Philly are like the epicenter of just Italianness and itself. So yeah, they really pick out on like the D. Anastasio,

you know, all that stuff and yeah. Couldn't spell it. Yeah. At least one apostrophe, if not more. Okay, so and then you start dating your wife and it's just like, you just fall in love and just like, okay. Yeah. Regular and that.

I ask because like Philly, there's just not a lot of that in Philly that much. money and when I live there it just wasn't a lot it just was like it's a pretty segregated city dude I thought philly was segregated go to chicago my love some i want some chicago well you know martin le king said uh chicago's the most segregated places ever been still is yeah it's insane i totally agree and you know a bit about that i went to the south side of chicago i had to look it up it's 99.9.9% black which i have no problems with my problem is i think it might be 100% Yeah, it's wild. I wasn't prepared for just like,

it's like Philly, you weren't prepared for that level of joy. I'm kidding. Well, Philly's like, you know, I don't even think Phillies that's, I mean, it is. There's definitely like, you know, different neighborhoods and stuff.

I should, I'd say it's like, the whole fucking country segregated, ultimately, like culture. I mean, it's, New York's less so. It's just a matter of like less so, but it's still pretty insane. The level of it. Yeah.

is just bananas. Yeah, that's true. You had another bit that I liked. Oh, you referred to Ontario as the amount of fat Mexicans was fantastic. They're not fat, they're huge. Huge. Everyone told me, don't fucking film in Ontario, God, one.

I said, don't film in the land of the most giant Mexicans ever. They're massive. It's, yeah, I'm glad I'm a low-y person. Yes. They are. Mexicans. I swear to God, they might be wayfinders. They might have charted the course

and made it to Ontario. dude, because they are massive guys. They're not the tallest bunch, but out in Ontario, California, man. Not so far, no. Yeah, but in California, I don't know, they're standing on each, there might be some trench coat guys

standing on each other's shoulders out there. They are big boys, man. Yes, they are. Also, I like the, you have, like, a opening of the special. Yeah. That I actually liked. Thank you.

Because most of them stink. Most of them are like, why are you doing this to me? Yeah. And it was like, oh, this is some, your basic POV, but like, the lead-up to the special is just a day of insanity.

I'll say that. Yeah, that was my goal. I do like, because on the, I did a YouTube special, and I had it, like, I just said, unnecessary intro on that as well. That was kind of just ridiculous. So I wanted to follow that up, and it was, dude, that was so fun.

Filming that was so fun. There was a little back and forth with, like, how long it should be, but I kind of stood my ground. And then you did it at the end. You jumped off stage. Oh, yeah, there's that, too. and went back into it.

Fantastic. Thank you. And the podcast is a runaway success beyond your wild streams, I would have said? Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, me and Shane started that a long time ago, and we were like, I was on an air mattress. He was kind of just like mattress on the floor situation. This is the very first episode. This is big time, dude.

History. This is history. I give it five episodes. How about you? Five's a little ambitious. I think we'll do... Five is ambitious. I think we'll fizzle out after two.

Yeah, it was, we couldn't... I couldn't imagine, you know. That's... The fact that we get paid to do it at all, I'm like, that's crazy. And it doesn't seem like... You just literally sit and talk. Yeah.

You don't have to book it. You don't have to... No. Shane will... He doesn't even, like, even consciously book it. I'll just show up. He's like, oh, you know who's in town.

We have a guest. I'm like, no. And it's like, yeah. So, yeah, we just sit down and talk. We chatted up and just mess around. Did you feel guilty for baiting him into making all the Chinese voices? I, you know, and not at the time. We were just handling business.

But, yeah, I mean, I was kind of the genesis of that whole joke. And, yeah, I did feel, I felt bad about it. That's got to be a pretty big whoops. I bet you did feel pretty bad for a month, maybe? Yeah. But although, I mean, not like it was legitimate or anything, but I'm saying, like, you must have been. like, I didn't think I was going to get you.

Yeah, I mean, also, too, it was kind of, that was like when they got Al Capone on tax evasion. You know what I mean? We were like, right, yeah, you got us. But the, yeah, you know, I don't know. I felt, I just felt bad he had to go through all that stuff. And it was, but at the same time, I just thought it was so ridiculous during the time. I'm like, dude, this is crazy.

Like, I just thought it got, it got completely taken out of context. And it was like, it was just nuts. So it wasn't even like, like, like, I'm conscious of it now, though. I'm always kind of like, let me not, you know. Do one of our famous Chinese voices bits? I mean, yeah. That, I mean, it's still, it is funny, you know, I can't deny it, but yeah, I try to not, you know.

The noodle pronunciation? Yeah, it's so funny. Yeah, it's a good, it's funny. It's funny. It's the, right. It's classic. It's what it sounds like. Nuters.

And it's classic, but the, uh. And therefore it's classic. Yeah, but I also, though, I was pretty confident that, you know, and for him, I'm sure it was just really grim, but I don't know. I always was confident that. he was going to emerge through it and you know and I wasn't I'm kind of shocked about how everything's kind of swung around so much it's the most successful five-day run in

Saturday Live history yeah he was on I literally was looking you up and it was like and I looked out it was like he was on it for five days never got on yeah and now he does arenas yeah it came at a time when I you know everyone was feeling a little boxed in anyway and I don't know I feel like he kind of just stepped into like some weird cultural kind of just explosion thing where it was like it was already tense and he was kind of like he just kind of like embodied a lot of that stuff and you know i want to talk about your blocks there they're there some are pretty um pretty pedestrian caffeine addiction which you seem to be handling pretty well i am i've kind of put a clans i kind of put the clamps on it because i didn't drink coffee i'm like very sensitive to caffeine

and then once i had kids i got so tired that i could actually handle it you finally got into this the proper zone that it could help you without. That's so funny. That's how much harder is parenting than you thought it was going to be? I mean like infinitely. It's not leaving so much. It's definitely hard because there's like two levels of it where it's like, you know, like there's the physical aspect of like, well, I'm waking up.

I'm sleep deprived. I got to get you from here to there. And then there's like the mental emotional aspect. That was another bit I liked like that the hitting thing. Yeah. What if 10 years from now we learn that like looking at the iPad all day is just as bad as hitting kids. You know what I mean?

Because then it's like, dude, we could have been hitting these kids the whole time. I'm one of 10. Yeah, I'm six. So the amount of hitting. Yes, we have to. It was what, like you defend hitting. Yeah. Obviously, you're not going to, wank.

No, obviously you're not going to. But, and I believe that's part of the reason why you married a black woman because you thought you'd be able to. Yeah. That's still. I got to hold her back sometimes. It's still possible in the black community. It's still very, very. possible. But do you find it? It is just a, my girl has a five-year-old. So it's like, the,

the test of patience and endurance is, it's crazy. Yeah. You can't, I apologize to my mom. Yeah. Because I was like, I didn't have any idea what this was. Yeah, they puts that in perspective big time where you're, you know, especially like people, a lot of people in the 20s get to be like, my parents, this and that. It's like, do wait until you have a kid? You're going to be, yeah, you're just kind of like, yeah, you know what? This is, I might scream, you know? It's like, I might freak out, because it's literally go beyond your patience over and over and over. Yeah. Did you have to like have like, all right, what am, how am I going to do this?

Did you have like a plan and then, and then an adjustment? Yeah, I didn't have a plan, but my goal was for, like, I just, I'm like, I'm not hitting my kids. I'm going to not. I also have daughters, too, so it's like, you know, I'm not going to hit my daughters. But the, uh, by the son, I'd have to, that's case. That's my case by case basis, but. Day to day to day. Yeah, exactly.

Day to day on that. Yeah, you know, certain weights maybe. but the um no what i you know i kind of figured it out on the fly where i was like if i just like there's this i hold i hold myself to the standard that like if i yell or display like you know anger in a way that could be scary even if i'm right to be angry i apologize to my kids i'm like hey i'm sorry i shouldn't have yelled at you but and they're very forgiving they're like it's okay you're fine and then probably they just want me to fucking hit them but they're like you're always like no it's totally fine but then i'll be like hey i messed up i'm sorry but you also

messed up because I told you to do this three times you didn't can you do it for me now and that works or I'll start to say if I'm getting it works if you yell no if I appall if I yell they kind of like they'll kind of like just freak out and you still don't get the thing done so if I start getting angry I'm being like

kind of like nasty I'll catch myself and like I'm sorry for that I shouldn't have done that but you still need to do all this stuff or I announce like oh guys I'm getting anger right now and I'm about the spas and they're like no no no no and they like clean up so are you the, is it the classic roles of like

you're the disciplinarian? No, it's reversed. I'm kind of the softy. My wife's the hammer. So, and I will, I'll, it's like she's the day-to-day hammer and then if I get to a certain point, I'll really, I'm kind of like the, I'm the atomic bomb if there needs to be, you know what I mean?

Okay. I recently hit my first table slam recently. You're like the neighbor, you're the friendly neighborhood cop at first. Yeah. If they go past you, then your wife is like the hard at you bad cop and then you're the fucking the bad lieutenant yes i'll eventually like i got new orleans yeah i got to hit my first uh dinner table table slam did you really felt good man how the forks did the forks jump i was at my own parents house so i was at the table and like so i had the table

that started at all exactly and they were like and they weren't listening and i just wanted boom and smack the table and it's like a little plagiar and they were both like well did your dad wink at you like I think, yeah, I think here it's like, I don't know. I always wonder, because I, like, I always, if I yelled them, especially there, I feel like my parents are kind of, like, my mom will be like, oh, no, no, no, no, it's, you know, blah, blah, so. Yeah, yeah, so it's kind of interesting. But the, yeah, that felt good, though, to get that full table slam. Was it a different level of obedience after that? For, like, 10 seconds, yeah.

You know, I got to get, they, like, stopped him, like, whoa, and they, like, responded because they, like, weren't listening, I think, to my wife, and I hit him with a big. Do you get points with your wife? Yes. If I'm, that's, that's a thing. too I have to learn. That's a tough thing too, especially if me and my wife aren't seeing I die, it's hard not to, like, if the kids, there can be a disagreement with, like, how do we handle this? And if my kids go against her, there'd be times where I'd be like, yes. Like, they're like, Syrian rebels undermining, like, the local authority. I'm like, yes, I can use this.

But no, no matter what, like, hey, listen to your mom and you just discuss afterwards, rather than in the moment being like, well, they have a point, actually, you know, you are kind of being a bit overbearing, you know. Yeah, do you, yeah, what do you do with you? You can't do that. You have to have a united front. Can you do a day later? Like, hey. No, or the only thing I'll do around them, and we both do this to each other, is like, hey, be nicer. Like, you're not being nicer.

You can be nicer right now. To your kids. All of us. If we're, anyone can get that. Can the daughters say that to your wife about you? They get me. They get me all the time. They'll get, yeah, they can do it vice versa.

But they'll, if I even, if I'm giving like, you know, if we're in the car together and I'm giving my wife even like an ounce of attitude or I'm like talking away that's just like not nice my daughters will be like you're not being nice be nice a mom and vice versa yeah and i'll be like and i'll be like and if i'll be like all right my bad you guys got me i'll be nice or sometimes we're just not arguing and they'll be like you're arguing i'm like we're not we're actually not arguing right now yeah that's so that's got to be uh i like your bit about i just assumed that like once you got married it was on tap you're really i'm with you 100 I've always said like the fact that a woman can just go, no, when you're like, wait, you know this is how cheating starts. You know this is how white people, this is how this is the beginning of a story about cheating.

Yeah. You can't be. I mean, I guess it could be, but I'm saying you don't want it to be. You don't want it to exactly. And you can't threat. You can't really say that. Can't threaten a man. Thankfully, you won't let your wife listen to a podcast.

So she'll never hear this. She'll listen every now and again. But yeah, that's a, that's a tough one, too. to be like, because there are, you see guys on YouTube doing it, where they're like, I had a conversation with my wife where I say, look, for every time you don't do this for me, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, it seems like he's pulling it off

and you try to, like, I'm gonna use that guy on YouTube on steroids. What's the method? You go like, if you don't give me this. I've seen that before. Like, if you don't give it to me, a man has appetites and he will fulfill those appetites. And it seems very convincing. You try to have that conversation with your wife

and you're just like, I just bail so hard. I'm like, I don't know. I like when guys talk about it. themselves like the Roman emperors. Exactly, yeah. And then I shall. I shall have my mine own appetite.

Shut the fuck up. I know. You're trying. So what are you saying? You're going to fuck somebody? And I'm like, nah, I'm sorry. Just let me know.

You can pencil it in. Okay, so would you, have you ever had a panic attack from, we're getting back to coffee? Have you ever had a panic attack from caffeine? Yes. That was the first panic attack I had. I was in an office.

First time working in an office, I was like 19 years old. And I didn't even know a panic. You're off the construction. Yeah, that was my dad's big dream. He was like, get into an office. There's air conditioning in there. Hell nice with that be to work in air conditioning.

I'm like, damn, that would be kind of cool. Your dad was 1100 years old. His wildest dream, son. His last wish. That was their whole thing. They're like, if you go to college, you can work inside an air conditioning. And I was like, I will do it, father. You would enjoy.

Okay, so I looked up what the most common job in, America in the last 150 years by decade was. What was it? Starting in 1850, 60. Farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, farmer, factory, factory, factory, factory, factory, factory, and then in the 80s office. Oh, really?

And now it's all office. Yeah, but it was, because it's, you know, I was just trying to write a bit about like women complaining. And, and, but I was like, what, all this, like, patriarch, It's like most men couldn't read. Yeah. They were all farmers. No one had any power.

Like, eight men had power. It wasn't all, it was eight men. You've heard of them. John Rockefelt, like, yeah. So it's funny that what was your, what did your grandfather do for it? Oh, they had a family trash business.

So they did like a waste removal, basically dumpsters. And then my dad and his brothers took that over. And then they sold it. And then started construction? Demolition, yeah. Oh, okay. like just knock down buildings and stuff.

Uh, should that's still alive? Yeah. He still works. He's like in his 60s. He still does demolition. Is the, what's the worst part of demo? Is the stress, the joints or the lungs? It's, honestly, I really think out of the trades, it's the hardest on your body because

you're collapsing things. So you're breathing in dust of all very, asbestos are constantly breathing in asbestos. You're snapping lines of like frion. That's going off sometimes. There's just the silicates and concrete. And yes, on the joints, you're bearing a heavy load. and the risk of injury is so high. Is there a mask?

Is there like... Yeah, you're supposed to. You're a pussy if you wear a mask. Exactly. You're huge. And it's pre-COVID. But it's like, yeah, I had an uncle who would like... There's like two rubber bands that were on the back of your head.

I mean, we all know what they are. But they, he would like lift his up and smoke cigarettes underneath. And it's like... So you did grow up in Philly. Yeah. None of them. It was like you're supposed to wear him, but they're like kind of like... Like you're kind of pussy if you wear it.

And we'll see. It's just one of those, like, lungs-wise, we'll see what happens. Yeah, it's like, yeah, they're just, they're not supposed to worry about your health. If you worry about your health, it's like, you're kind of a girl. They're like, dude, what are you like? Because I have, like, a gluten allergy.

My mom, I get a lot of my, like, physical stuff for my mom. She had a gluten allergy in the 70s that she, like, self-diagnosed. Pioneer. Total pioneer. And she can't have caffeine, super caffeine-sensitive. So I was like, you know, I still like be sitting there, on a site with my dad and be like,

yeah, it's pretty dusty in here where she gets some ventilation. Like, what do you, what are you worried about that shit? And I'd be like, no, no, whatever. But like, we were in a building one time where they were running heavy machinery indoors. So it was like the air was tinged with diesel smoke. It was like blue. And I was like, there's asbestos.

You're like, yeah, like, you know, whatever. There's stuff being broken there, all this stuff. And, uh, and I was just like begging. I had like three other guys I was working with. They'd be like, dude, I'll talk to them. Do you want, we should like cut a big hole in the, the window to get like, or it was like a metal great to get some air in here. And they're like, yeah, for sure, dude.

And as soon as I brought it up to my dad and my uncles, they were, I was like, yeah, it's kind of bad. It was you cut a hole. And I'm looking at them like, right guys? And they were like, oh, we're fine. And I was like, you fucking assholes. And they were like, you're a pussy. But they ended up doing it, you know, whatever.

But yeah, it is, it is tough guys rule. They literally say they're the last, last of the tough guys. Yeah. I mean, God bless them. Yeah. But if they didn't own the company, they, I feel like most of those guys are kind of fuck like if i well although they're gonna have jobs like a i's not gonna be that's gonna be oh no no really tip for i no they're fine especially it's moving giant mounds of concrete and

you know the i's not gonna do that no um all right so you have a panic attack in the office yeah so i had my first office job i was you know i was like uh it was an internship in college and i was super excited i was like all right it's gonna be cool i'm in an office and i think i was just like probably drinking coffee and uh it's probably like 19 and i was like uh just staring at a monitor. I didn't really like know what to do with myself. And it was, I was in such an alien environment. Huffing the air conditioning. Yeah, I was, you know, the temperature was perfect. But I remember, I remember just like, so I shouldn't blame the temperature. I was going to blame the temperature. Not the temp was beautiful. It was actually, I was soaking it in. And I just

like, started like breathing weird. And I remember my vision getting all distorted. And I was like, I was like, I'm dying. What the fuck? I thought I was having a heart attack. And I just, like, ran outside and just like stayed outside all day and just didn't go back for like an entire day. And did you, how long it take you to realize, like, oh, that was caffeine? Well, the problem was, I feel like slightly before that, at the time, I was, like, selling mushrooms. So I had a pound of mushrooms, and I had eaten a quarter ounce of not knowing what I was doing. And I think that also, because I used to be able to drink coffee when I was younger. And ever since I ate, like a quarter ounce of mushrooms. What would that be, two and a half grams? No, seven. So it was, I did two,

I ate an eighth one time. And then I was like, well, if I ate two A, so it'll be twice as fun. So I ate seven grams and I like I like dude I rocked my socks and I in like a bad way Then it became good after that but I started having anxiety after how long wait how long it rock your socks for like all night pretty much and then when it when did it get good What time do you eat them? Uh like nighttime after like drinking all night so it was like not the best thing I try to watch Wayne's world and I felt like the couch was eating me and I was like this is I think they're kicking in and then uh and then yeah then like it like I started after that it like it like started after that it It was like horrible terror to like complete bliss to where I was like going to call my parents and tell them. What time is it when complete bliss? Five in the morning.

Okay. Yeah, sunlight was coming. Did you have worked the next day? No, I think I was at school or something. But I do remember like it was like the middle of the night. So like it was like dawn, like early dawn when it's like still kind of dark. And I remember tripping so hard that I thought I got stuck between night and day and I would never get out of that. So when the sun came up, it was a, you know, gigantic relief for me.

But then they, like, turned into this whole thing. Like, I'm never working a day in my life. I'm going to wander the earth. I'm going to, that was my big idea. I'm going to start a vacation resort. That way I can get paid to be on vacation. Yep. And then, like, I sobered up and I was like,

I'm going to need about $500 million to do that. You know, so that was my big idea. But I was going to, like, call my parents. I was going to drop out of school. I was going to, I had people that, like, I owed me money. I was going to call them. Like, hey, don't worry about it, blah, blah.

Because you just thought that's not for, that's not for Matt. For like three lovely hours, I was above money. I was like, I don't even need that stuff. Who cares about? But, yeah, so then after that, I started getting, like, panic attack somewhere in that. And then that's when I got hit at that office and was just like, it just rocked us up. Oh, so you thought it was maybe Shroom affiliated? That was the first time I really got, like, a whole body anxiety feeling, really.

Yeah. That was, like, consciously aware of at least. So then when, like, that feeling returned out of nowhere. And, you know, caffeine will set it off. I was just like, what the fuck is this? Because before I was like, oh, I'm just tripping, I guess. But then I got them on stage. I've done it before.

Panic attack? Oh, yeah. And just, did you, like, walk off or did you kind of, like, bunker down? I didn't know. I literally didn't know what was happening. Oh, that sucks. At least I knew what it was. I had no idea.

And I didn't even know. I thought it was just, like, a weird, like, I thought it was just, like, a joke, the energy you get when a joke doesn't work, that, like, flood. Yeah. But I got it at the beginning. And I was like, I couldn't even really talk, and it was the, like, walls closing in. I got it the night before I shot my first Netflix special.

Oh. Yeah. And then I, yeah, so, like, Jesselnik was supposed to bring me up, and I was like, don't bring me up. Oh, no. And I don't know how I, I'm just lucky I didn't get one during the tape, like, during the taping. And then I, it was Zolot. I, like, went off Zolov, whatever, whatever. Now I just take Propanel off before I go on.

And it's just like. What is that? It's a heart, it's a blood pressure. Yeah, it's beta blocker. Wow, I've heard about that. Do it. If you have, if you, it just makes it like, I'm never gonna get a panic attack.

That's crazy. It's like, it just makes it so, because the thing about panic attacks is once your body knows you're gonna have them, it's like, we should fucking have a panic attack. Just rip them. Yeah, I mean, I got them so early on that like, it for me it was like my early 20s

and I kind of just like, I just rode before, I just kind of wrote them out and it was, you know, it's really hard. And I'll still, they were like, they used to pop up on stage and that would be like, I'm like talking where I'm like, I'm thinking while I'm saying something else. And it's like a have you, well, that's stand up's like that anyway, but it's worse because you're really aware of it. I had one a week ago. I just forgot to take a per panel. Yeah. And I had one on stage.

And I could get the jokes out. But the audience knows something's weird about you. Yeah. And the jokes work 40% less. Yes. They don't not work, but they get like... Something's up. Something's going on.

Yeah, they watch you. And they don't know what it is. And you're like, I don't know how long yours lasts. Mine lasts like 90 seconds. Mine will last like, uh... Yeah, like the... That's why I don't drink coffee before I do stand up because if I, if that, like, caffeine... I fucking do shots of espresso.

I don't know if it's related. My heart will start to race and then I'll be talking and my heart will be like, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, I'm going to have a fucking heart attack. And then I'll get a flood of anxiety while I'm still trying to perform. And then I have to, like, do a thing where I'm like, hey, if I die, I die. And that's like the only cure for it. That's the one thing about anxiety that I don't like.

I mean, you know, people medicate against it, whatever. But for me, like, when I got panic attacks, like, I need it to. Like, my body was basically being like, dude, the way you're living is fucking nuts. You have to do. But I wouldn't have never have known otherwise. My body, like, completely rebelled against me. Sometimes I feel like they suck in the moment. You're talking about what, so what, the one at the office and the ones on stage, what are you doing wrong?

Well, not so much the ones on stage, but it was like, at, I, when I started getting anxiety, I was like, man, this is coming out of nowhere. This is bullshit. But, like, I wasn't sleeping. I was drinking almost every night of the week. I was, like selling weed. I was doing all. I was like, just had a very stress on top of being in college full time.

And, you know, I'd have, like, odd jobs here and there. So I was just living in, like, an insanely stressful way. And my body was like, yo, dude, like, whatever this is. no. And it like, and also too, like, I, you know, I was so young that like, I didn't really have much empathy for other people at the time. I was just kind of like, I wasn't like, you know, super mean, but I just was, I didn't really like think about how other people felt at all. And that was like the first time I got like really kind of confronted with, like, I really was like broken by it at like an early age. Like I got so anxious. I stopped going to class. Like,

it just was like a serious. Oh, so you were like, oh, everyone has problems probably. Yes. That that was a huge moment for me to be like, like, wait a minute. Is everyone having? You go on like the subreddit and it's 5 million members. You're like, five million members. That's a lot. Yeah, that was a big thing too of like just being absolutely, especially when you're a young man, you're like, you know, like, you're not supposed to be empathetic.

Exactly. And you're like, my future's ahead of me. I'm going to dominate. Blu-la-la-la-la. It is. It truly was pussy shit. And I remember feeling just like, holy fuck. Like, I was like bad.

I would lay down to go to sleep and like, like, when I would get really bad anxiety, like I would get to the point where like one night I could hear. like a voice in my head of like an old British man for some way it was like I was like bordering on psychosis and I remember like final I was just dealing with it myself and one day I finally called my mom and I was like dude I don't know what's going on with me and she was like oh I used to get panic attacks all the time you're fine and like that alone I was like oh it's a huge relief and then she I was like what do you do for it and she was like stay busy I was like fuck man I thought you had a fight like you had a way to conquer these things but

I feel like in the long term I'll sell more drugs yeah exactly I know I'm gonna I'm gonna start selling coke now. But yeah, so that was like, for me, it was kind of like, I don't know, like it humanized me in a way where I was like, I'm glad I dealt with that because if I didn't, I don't know. Did you deal with it or you just like? I did, yeah.

What was the dealing with it after you call your mom? It just, I just became like very, it made me more self-aware of just kind of like, you know, how am I living? What am I doing? And, you know, like, it just kicked off a thing where, because I started out as a psychology major and then I switched to business because my whole family

is like, don't be a psychologist, you're going to go crazy. and so it is kind of like I already had an interest in the area but now I had like a very personal kind of attachment to like learning how to you know make your mind. Would you go to therapy? I eventually did when I was 30. Got it. So because I went to school for social work when I was in my early 30s because I eventually it was like maybe I'll like in case I don't want to do stand up because I always wanted to be a therapist. So I was like maybe I could just, you know, go to school, get my social work degree and become a therapist.

And they were like, we strongly advise you to try therapy. And I was like, I'll try it out. And I was fucking, why? I really was. Even then, I was, I talked about this yesterday, but I was like, all right, I'm going to go to a therapist. And I, for real fun. No, I give it. I don't get it.

I give therapy. I have the answer. I don't need them. I literally, in my early 30s, I, like, walked in this lady's office being like, I'm not going to give her too much. So I don't want to, like, fuck her head up with all my knowledge. And she completely, she completely picked me apart in like two minutes. Did you cry? Not the first time, but eventually, yeah, cried.

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Superpower.com. Code Neal. How old were you when you, like, got, with your girl and then started having kids. 20, we met when I was 29 and she was 24. So that was like a. And when did you start having kids? When I was like 32, I'm gonna say?

Did that have the thing of like replaced your problems with their problems? Did it have that effect? No, no, no, no. Not that. Because it's like that, the whole 20s were just like a jumbled, just like kind of turbocharged mess. And then like, you know, whatever.

I actually was married before like in my late 20s that kind of fell apart now so so now I'm you know I'm with my my wife now and I was really like I'm really determined to make this work like I don't want this to fall apart and when we had kids because our really even me and my wife now our relationship was really rocky because it was like you know we were just we just didn't really have the tools to like deal with each other and whatever and but when we had kids then that went that's when I was like oh man we really got to figure this out because we really don't have tools Yeah, yeah. Well, we did figure it out. Luckily, you know, because she had a therapist, thank God, and we did like couples counseling, which a lot of people give it a bad name. They're like, well, it's over by then.

It's like, look, man, you need to do what you got to do. But I'm trying to get into couples counseling six weeks into a relationship. It's great. Like, if you think you have a shot, start early because it, what are you hiding? What do you have to hide from? No, it's a pride thing. It's a big pride thing where they're like, if a couple needs help, issues, they're not gonna last.

And it's like, some people last, but they're miserable in a relationship. So it's like, yeah, I think it's a fantastic thing to do. But the, but yeah, once you're a kid, you're like, you have, especially when that, like, you have that little set of eyes on you, and you're like, you know, your house is in just complete disarray emotionally, you're kind of like,

there has to be a way to figure this out. Like, this house doesn't have to be this place of chaos. Was it easier than you thought of it, Bay? No. Did you have any, it was hard? It was hard. Yeah, it was so hard. Because then the big pill to swallow,

is, because it's easy to be like, you know, if you're in a place where it's like kind of emotionally disregulate it, to be like, well, like for me, I could be like, well, if my fucking wife would stop doing this shit, everything will be fine. But the big pill to swallow is

you're doing shit that's not fine as well and you have to really control the shit you're not doing, which is, to even acknowledge it just like goes against your own, like, biology. And such, like, literally swimming up like a strong current to be like, I'm being kind of a piece of shit here,

aren't I? Which is like, insane to be able to recognize. and do that, but then to actually, A, admit that to the other person, even when you're feeling like, yeah, but the shit you're doing still bothering me to be like, I'm doing shit that sucks, and I'm sorry for that, and then try to, like, stop yourself from doing the shit that sucks in the moment when you feel like you most want to. What were your things? What were your big things that you were done?

Just anger, like, physically distracting stuff. Not her, thank God, but like... Are you like a wall, but you're a demo guy. Oh, yeah. You truly are from a demo family. Smash glasses, smash walls, I'll do all that stuff. But I don't, I haven't done it in a long time, but that was... Did you ever smash a glass in your hand?

No, no, thank God. I've never smashed a glass in my hand. I've smashed a glass into the dishwasher or other glasses. That was a big mess. Was it passive aggression? Fine, I'll fucking load it. And then you smash it. It was, I put a paint a picture for us.

Okay, so it's phones. Phones have gotten the rap a lot, where it's like, arguing on the phone, you're at a 10, and then, like, I'll get hung up on, and then it's just like, fuck this thing and just, did you have a case on the phone? Did it have a phone case? Yeah, I've broken them through.

I've broken, I've, like, bent the frame before from smashing them. And I have, I smashed my phone one time so hard that it called 911. You did an emergency SSOS. And I couldn't find my phone because I was driving. I was like, shit. I hear it, a call, and I had a reach and grab it. I had a call. Like, no, I'm sorry.

You're like, it's nothing, you pause. Yeah, I'm fucking done. But, yeah, I've fucked up phones. But for the, like, the dishwasher thing is, like, if I can remember it, it's, like, we're arguing in person. I'm just, like, I'm trying to art. It's like a multi-level thing where I'm like, why are you being this way towards me? This isn't fair.

And then it's like, I'm trying to articulate my points. And I'm not doing a good job at that either. I don't even, I don't even know if I know how. And then it's being met with like more anger. And you're getting, and then you storm off upstairs. And I'm just like, it's like an urge. You get this feeling and you're like, don't do it, don't do it. And you're like, fuck it.

And you feel so good when you like break the thing. You're like, ugh. But then you go, well, fuck. Well, do you feel. justified because that was all I would I have I can yell yeah especially in work and and I it was a lot of it was the story I was telling myself about like they're intentionally fucking me yeah and now and I'm a victim and my only recourse is and and they're insulting my intelligence and here they earned it I first of all I deserve to do it Yeah, yeah.

I deserve to a big, a big tray of ice cream. Mm-hmm. Like, I deserve this monologue, this heated monologue. They, I deserve, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it's my birthday. Yeah, this is, it's, it's time. It's time for me to finally do this. Yeah, I was more, I'll do that sometimes if I've been like, all right, I just, you know, we've been arguing now, I'll, I'll, like, monologue out where I'm like, because I'll, I'll also

just keep stuff to myself for a very long time. And then it'll just all just be like, and I'll just like spaz for like 30 minutes trade. Like, in another thing, and another thing, and another thing, and my wife's like, dude, I'm, it's cap it here. We'll revisit this one. And by the way, like, you're an asshole for not saying each thing on the way. Yeah, that's what I've had to learn. Because I just be like, I'll notice something and be like, all right, that's how you want to fucking be, huh? And I'll just wait three days and be like, motherfucker, remember Thursday?

What if I were to marinate this for three days? I could talk about this now, but what if I fucking pickled it? Yeah, and then drink like 16 ounce of coffee and just explode in the car. Like, here we go. And did you have a protocol for how to stop? Yeah, I mean, again, it was like, luckily during COVID, I had already been interested in all the psychology and stuff. But like, once everything kind of like slow to a halt, I kind of all I had to do really was my podcast. So in between, I would like, we were living and filled off at a time.

Did you paint that as like hard? Like, fucking. What? I got to get there 10 minutes before. For the doing the podcast, would you pretend it was a hardship? No, because there was a point, no, there was a point at COVID where we just did like Zoom. So we were like, Shane was traveling.

We just did Zoom. So like, all I had to do was go to my basement and do that for like a couple hours a week. But I would sit in my basement. I did a ton of research and reading and like, I really used that time and like. For psychological reading. Yeah, I got real into that.

And I was doing a thing on for your own shit? For my own. And then I tried, I had this whole idea. I tried to start like a online version of, not necessarily AA, but like peer, kind of, you know, like... Fellowship? Fellowship or like emotional type stuff where people,

like, just take information I was reading and kind of like, like, hey, this is this and then let people kind of chat. You know, I did do it for a while, and I kind of liked it. What, what was it? What was it? What was it?

Psychicno. That was the name of it. Psychicno? Yeah. Psychic, no, like psychology, but like, like, people say jokes, like, psych, no, I'm just kidding. Oh, got it, got it.

But it was psych, I wasn't like psychology. But the, so I had this whole idea where I was like, if AA works, where you can take it, you know, you take it where people help each other with, like, addiction stuff. That's also a lot of psychology stuff. It should work for people who aren't necessarily alcoholics, but also just have regular problems.

But that's the issue is what is the problem? How do you organize it? It's just life. It's just like, yeah, life. That's a problem. There was nothing. There was not a centralized thing to organize it. So, you know, I tried, and I still, like,

it's still, there's still a Discord where people use it and there's like a daily meditation and all that stuff where people, go and they do it together and it's kind of nice but I have your memory lives on yeah I had grandiose dreams for it I was like I'm gonna take down the idea of therapy all to get you look we remember your your resort we assume this was gonna fold into that I have a bad case of like you know railroad railroad tycoon brain like and then that'll happen and it'll change the whole thing I do that with

bits where I'm like this is the bit this is it yeah this is people are not gonna fucking believe it when I do this tweet gets tweets get me yeah I'll be like this tweet's gonna change the entire discourse and it's just like yeah nobody likes it and no one's ever going to be the same um this is gonna heal it how long did that last uh lasted like kind of through covid what was the biggest meeting what was the most amount of people that ever were in one uh i mean i forget i used to do like two things i would do a zoom that would have like you know 30 sometimes 30 people or so um and then i had what was the format it was like a zoom chat where we were just like talk i would like either talk

about something I read and anyone could just, it was pretty loose. Can you give me an example? Because I'm fast, because I, I'm of the mind that like there should be way more of this. Yeah. But I, but I, but to your point, if you look, if you can figure out none of us goes. Sure. That does. That does check out. What I'm saying like, how do you, what's, if you, at NAA or any of these fellow, at 12 steps, there's one person shares three, or 10 minutes and then everybody else shares kind of like piggybacks on their theme. or they don't have to, but they can't.

What was your format? That was my problem. I could never nail down a format, but I did base it loosely on like the, like acceptance and commitment therapy. On the 48 laws of power. Yeah, we'd all meet and think about how to dominate women psychologically.

No, it was based on acceptance and commitment therapy, which is like a evolution of cognitive behavioral, which I never really like CBT stuff that much. But the ACT, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, it was more based in like a lot of mindfulness, a lot of like value, like, you know, trying to, like, really pin down, like, what actually are your values and how do you get your behaviors to align with your values? And then what are the things coming up that are keeping your behaviors separate with your values? Like, you know, like, that you're not being mindful of. Like, like, how are you being steered away? You know, if you say, like, you know, you have kids and you don't want to drink all the time. Yeah. Your kids are clearly your values. What's, what is getting in the way of that? And they do, I think, a really good job of illustrating that and giving people, like, tools and little things for, you know. That's ACT, is that you call you? Yeah, acceptance and commitment therapy.

It's really good. And so I would try to, like, take that information, like, make a video, and then people could watch it, and we would just talk about the video kind of thing. And then they could bring in personal stuff. You would make the video? Yeah, I have a bunch of videos on it. Yeah. Welcome to Psychinol's Mindfulness and Meditation Module.

This is the Psychinol Temple, so just relax, take it easy. Are they well-produced or just you doing a lot of work? So bad. It's just me manic and, like, during COVID and sweatpants with bedhead or like, and then another thing. So like you talk about Fauci every once in a while. I'm fucking there trying to. Yes, motherfucker. But it was cool.

The cool thing I will say is like even like touring after that. I have had people come up to me before and like do those videos were super helpful and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, that's nice, you know. Do you, that's an interesting idea that your values, that like the, the unhappiness or uneasiness in people comes from when their actions don't, their values? Is that kind of the basis of it? That's a part of it. Because then there's like, you know, there's like mindfulness, there's like, what is the one thing they call?

Being like cognitive, they call it psychological flexibility is like the five point skill set you need to get. But then there's a term called, I don't forget, it's cognitive something, but it's like your lack of ability to like see your thoughts as just thoughts and like how able are you to like experience a thought and just let it pass first, it being literally like, this is reality unfolding before my eyes and my eyes.

And that's the whole thing. That's the whole, me and my girlfriend talk about this endlessly. Yeah. And the issue is, in the last 15, 20 years, feelings aren't their, they're, like, messages from God. Yeah. To people now. Yeah. Like, I have to, I have to validate.

They need, other people need to validate them. I need to honor them. It's just a fucking thing that's going to change. Yeah. It's going to pass. And, like, you can. Take it or leave it. Yeah.

Well, they do a good job in there because, like, I think it's Stephen Hayes was a guy who kind of like, I think he was like, he's like the head of the ACT stuff. And he did a book and a workbook called Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life. And at some point they explain, they like give an example with like, you know, imagine this. They like show you how just a thought can affect your biology. And they like do this, look at this.

And like eventually gets to like imagine like you're spitting saliva into a bucket. And you're like, oh, no, what? Then like, you like, yeah, it's warm. And then you imagine drinking it. And you have, like, people tend to have like a visceral reaction. Or the same thing, like, puke. Imagine now drinking the bucket. And you're like, you can almost feel your body react to it.

And they're like, yeah, that's your thoughts. For some reason, affect your physiology to make them feel like it's real because your reaction to them are real. But the thought and the interpretation of what's occurring aren't necessarily real. So learning how to, like, sit with that discomfort so that you don't get like hooked into your almost instinctual behavior pattern that kind of dictates, you know, your behavior in often a destructive way versus like sitting in that and then just like trying to steer yourself towards acting despite the way you feel which leads to kind of a better life and you were

doing sermons there's no other word for them that's something too i didn't want it to feel like that where it was like and you're throwing glasses every once in a while oh yeah but i was always open about that i'd always be like dude i'm a spas like i need this as much as anybody so it was never like guys i figured it all out at least i hope not like i figured all this stuff out literally like follow me but it was like No, I'm struggling severely. And what is the, what's your biggest day-to-day, like, issue? I've made a ton of progress, honestly, because before it would be like, there's a big thing

with, like, my wife. There's some reason, like, me and, like, romantic relationships, I can get very spun out easily if, like, like, here's the thing, for instance, if my wife would be upset, you know, sometimes women just wake up and they're just fucking pissed. It hasn't been my experience, but go ahead. I take that personally, for some reason.

If, like, if I'm with my wife and she's not, If she's, like, expressing that she's not feeling well. It's a total lack of gratitude. It fucking pisses me. For some reason, I'm like, we'll knock it the fuck off and feel well. When you feel bad, it gives me a bad feeling. So fucking fix that shit right now. And I've learned to just be like, that's all right.

You know, you're not feeling well. And if I feel some kind of way about it, I'm just kind of like, that's my problem. And I let her, you know, just leave her alone and just let her do her thing. It's hard. It's hard. I don't like it, man. It's hard because it's like, it's not chivalry. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Not like you and I are the most, but like, it's these lessons of like what a good man is and all this shit. And you're like, you're kind of responsible. Yeah, exactly. For their emotional state. That's how I felt. And then it's almost like you like try to help and they're like, I don't want your help. And you're like, well, fucking now you're pissed at me.

What the fuck that I did trying to help you. So I've learned to just be like, you know, hey man, take your time, figure your shit out. And I had to really come to grips with the fact. And this was actually, like, really helpful. We both have aura rings, which track your sleep and stress level. And I love that kind of stuff. And my wife at first was like,

that's dumb. I don't know why you're doing that. And then she finally got one because it helps women track their cycles. And, dude, for me, this was a huge eye-opener. But we woke up the one morning, and we both had them on. And I had, you know, my, like, readiness score is, like, 85.

It was, like, great. It was great. It was awesome. Exactly. I'm a student. I'm perfectly ready. And we both got the same sleep. and she woke up and hers was like 50.

It's like zero to 100. She was 50. And I'm like, dude, we both got eight hours of sleep. What's the matter? And she's like, oh, it's just like my period's coming up. And I was like, that's how bad that fucks you up? I had like a quantifiable. Because my 50 is like a hangover after drinking.

Yeah. So I was able to be like, that's how bad you fucking feel? Because I at least had some tethered. I'm surprised it's that high. Dude, do you know what I mean? Like my experience, there's a, my girlfriend recommends, she's a therapist recommends to her female clients. It's a book called Period.

power about like what you're gonna feel like by day in terms of your cycle. Oh, I'm gonna write that down. Yeah. Yeah, that's, because I feel like they're almost like my uncles with dust masks about their period. They're like, I'm fine. And you're like, you're not, you are fucking rocked right now. It's a great analogy.

Also, it's, I have another observation about it, which is there is a medical thing that Schizophrenics have that tells them. they don't have schizophrenia. Whoa. That women have, I believe, about their period. They do. They can't acknowledge it. Like, not only not, you've never been healthier,

even though you're about to start your period in two days. Like, it tricks them into ignoring it. Dude, you're so right, because they don't want it. No, I looked it up because I've noticed, I noticed it 25 years ago, and I've like, it's a theory of building, and now I've, I've, I've, now I've located, that there is an actual phenomenon within paranoid schizophrenia. Whoa, then they should, that makes so much sense because yeah, I don't know why, like, it's almost to the point where I'm like, are you fucking with me?

She's like, I don't know what's going on and I'm like, dude, you're starting your period. What are you talking about? This happens every fucking month. Yeah. How are you not aware of this? And it's just like, I'm not, you're just fucking mean to me. You're just fucking mean to me. Chey did a joke about it. Michael Trey did you joke about it? We're just like, if... You know that I smoked crack for one week every month. And then one day you see me outside butt naked and Timberl is trying to sell a refrigerator door

You're like, say you smoking crack this week? Why would you ask me that? But me getting the metrics were huge when I was able to go Oh, okay there's a tracker that my girlfriend's shared with me. Yeah, the flow app Yeah, that you can like I can I can I have a membership that I can observe an email. Yeah, I mean basically That'd be nice. Yeah, I've got this year. I've just learned about Luteal phase. That's the big word for me right now. She's like I'm in my Ludial phase. What is that? Just when they're mean, I don't know. Oh, got to, got it. That's the pre-descent into the period.

Because there's also, there's the week of the period, but then there's a pre-period, which is their body gearing up. So it's really like, the ludial, I think, is when it's, like, just starting to. This is mansplaining, I guess, but, like, it's defensive. We're, like, defensively mans. We're, like, trying to, like, understand, man standing, maybe. Yeah, he's man standing, for sure.

I think we're like, man stands right now. We're, like, we're, trying to understand what's happening. It'd be funny if you got an email and it was like things not to bring up that day. Yeah. You're past. Yeah.

No, dude, I mean, I've talked to my wife about this where it's like, you know, I get it. I get from a female perspective to go, I can't believe you're guys talking about periods, but it's like, hey, you know, we're dealing with the force of that as well. Yeah, obviously. I'm not trying to go.

I'm not, we're not going like, and their assholes. and it's into, we're just going like, we're trying to understand it. Yes. For mansum. Why they're assholes. Yeah.

No, but it's really, it's a thing. You have to deal with it and it's, you know, it can be touchy or come off as dismissive, but it's a real thing and I'm happy that my wife got that ring and now she knows, she goes, that's coming. I go, all right, I'll brace myself. And then I have, I can be like, all right, if you're a little grumpy, I know why.

It's not me. Yeah. And then you won't get pissed. You won't, I mean, that's the thing, it's hard. It's, if you're as a guy, if you're kind of, of responsible for your partner's moods, which I kind of think is the deal. Yeah.

I think that's sort of the training, right? Like that's the new- I feel like one off, so, like, it's someone, I can see people saying like, well, no, it's not you. It's like, okay, maybe one day, but if they're like, I fucking hate my life and yeah, you're with them, that, how else are you gonna take that? It's like, well, fuck, all right.

Yeah, like, I'm a big part of that. Big part of your life. That might be a big reason you hate your life too, yeah. And it's kind of like, yeah, it's your, it's your, whoever's in the worst mood in the relationship, that's the mood. Yes. You can't, you can't be like, well, well, best of luck. Yeah, my day's, I'm killing today.

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Please support our show and tell them our show set you. I have another block you have that I want to get to. Well, the directionlessness. Yeah. Was that current? Or that's just happened? It's been my whole life, honestly. You just have no direction.

No plan. I've had no plan my whole life. Do you goals? Not real. I mean, yeah, I do, but they're not like, they're more like super long-term end-of-life stuff, if that makes sense. What are they? Just for, like, my kids to have a happy life and to them not to be like,

I fucking hate that guy. So that's a big thing. What about why do you start doing stand-up? Honestly, I used to, I remember liking it as a kid. I would watch, like, comic remix. on Comedy Central. Yeah, I actually did catch them Comic View. I just remember as like a little kid watching Comedy Central

and being like, I could probably do that. Just like as a little kid, weirdly. And then I just remember, you know, I always made people laugh in school and then, like, my family is funny, like, my brothers are funny, like, you know. They're just funny. Like, it was, what, I remember, like, a distinct moment when I was outside just, like, smoking weed with my friends

and, like, I was just talking and they were laughing. Like it was just, it kept happening. And then I was in college and I was like, I'm gonna try stand up actually. Because it was like in the back of my mind somewhere, but I didn't have like a con- I didn't know. I was like, you know, I was going to school

to be a psychologist. And I was like, I'm gonna be a businessman. And then I was just like, let me try that. So it was almost like a weird like urge that was finally like, yeah, I think I'm gonna do this. And I did it and I just liked it. And was like, but I would do it. I would stop.

I would do it and stop. I would do like three months. I'd stop for three months. I'd do it for nine months, stop for a year. and I just would go back and forth while trying to be like, you know what, I'm gonna live a normal life, I'm not gonna do this,

and it would just, that would blow up and I would just stand up again. So what, it wasn't, there's no like grand plan. No. No, not at all. It was really more so centered around avoiding a job that I hated. I mean, avoidance is a direction.

It really is. I've been propelled away. I've taken great, you know, great pains to avoid like that. Yeah, away is a direct. Yeah, true. Like that's the, so what do you, Do you still feel like, just like, I don't know, see what happens? Sort of, in a way. I have a little more direction now, but I remember as a kid, I was like,

I want to wear my big goals for myself where I want to wear sweatpants every day and I don't want to wake up to an alarm clock. I wanted to wear sneakers to work. That was my first one. That was a big one for me. And I remember I got the sweatpants dream as a weed dealer. And I was like, it's not that cool wearing sweatpants all the time. I thought it would be better.

And now everybody wears sweatpants. I don't wear sweatpants. Yeah, now they have like casual, you know, whatever. But the, but no, then I remember just being like, you know, I guess I'll try to do stand-up and make a living out of this. And I was like, damn, this is hard. And then we did the podcast and we just started getting paid for it. Thank God.

And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. But I was always ready for it to just kind of like explode and just, no, it gets explode in terms of like no money, you know. Yeah. And then that took off and I was like, shit, I guess I'll do this until, you know, I can't. But I've started to really enjoy just the whole thing. Because stand-up was just such a weird thing for me

because it was like, I didn't necessarily, I didn't feel like the huge kind of driving force to be like, I want everyone to know who I am. I didn't really care about that that much. But I also, you know, I'd like to be paid for it and like do it as a job. But then I like started to get like, when I started like featuring, I just started getting like an icky feeling around a lot of headliners

because like they would come in and I'd be like, what the fuck's this guy's problem? Like he's making all this money and he's just so sad, it seems like. And I'd watch like different headliners bicker with each other. I've seen a couple little like ego battles where it's like, who reps you? Oh, yeah, they rep me too. Oh, yeah, oh, I know that.

And I just watched this being like, I don't like this at all. And, uh, but then, you know, I got, just kept getting paid to do it. And I eventually was like, I was going to quit and just do, become a therapist. But the podcast, while I was studying to become a therapist, the podcast kept going so good because it was like attached to Shane's kind of celebrity. And it just became, I was like, fuck it. I'll just do this until I can. And then it just keeps going kind of well.

And I'm like, all right, well, nice. That's a good attitude to have. Yeah, but now, Now I actually genuinely like it because there was like a switch that flipped in my head like where I was like, you know what, dude, like, you know, get out of your head about all this shit. Just like, like, as hokey as it sounds, like, just try to make people laugh. People need to laugh. Do your best to do that and don't take yourself so seriously. And I actually just, I have a good time.

Okay. This is the one I wanted to get to. Yeah. Dissociation. Yeah. That's my main. That's my jam. Yeah, that's my jam, man.

That's what I learned out about in therapy when I was like, I don't really feel anything ever. And they're like, oh, okay. What? I because I need the history and I need the realization and I need the what what's dissociation what what's dissociation what what's dissociation and what's what's dissociation and what's watching your thoughts and release and what's Buddhism I okay so I could say in a nutshell it's like you still if you're like a Buddhist you still feel things but you like learn how to not let that kind of dictate your

behavior in life if you're dissociated you don't feel the things really or you do like in spurts like I would still feel like an exactly anxiety and stuff. But like, thank God. Yeah, thank God. Yeah, thank God. The anxiety and anger was kind of all I had. But the, yeah, like, it would be like, uh, like, you know, I remember when my, one of my brothers had their first kid and I would like walk in and be like, oh, there's my nephew. And I was, you know, still kind of young and I'd be like, and it would just be, that experience for me was just me being like, yep, that's my nephew. I'm an uncle now and I was just narrating what

was happening with just zero feeling whatsoever. And then like, you know, every single, like, you go through a wedding, you feel nothing the day of, you don't really feel much. Yours? Yeah, like the day. Not a good sign, but it was just, it wasn't like I was like, mad or anything. It was just the state.

People still are like, how are you excited about this and that? I'm like, no, I don't know, I feel anything about it. But I, but then I'll watch a, like, a Pixar movie and I'll cry my eyes out. Yeah. If I see, like, up, I'm like, oh, my God. But it would just be, like, major life events where I just go, well, here I am again. On to the next, like, college graduation, totally flat, nothing. Just like, literally nothing at all.

besides like dread and anxiety every now and again. Do you see it as a connected to panic attack? Yeah, because, well... Is it like none and then too much? Nothing, and then it's just like, well, here's all that at once. And I also started getting a lot of... It was like dissociation and depersonalization or two different things, but they're kind of similar.

I would... When I first started getting really bad anxiety, I would like walk around and you just feel like not... you're in a movie, like, you feel like nothing's real. Like, you're walking around people's face. Everything has, like, a surreal aspect to it in a really creepy, unsettling way. Like, not in a visual distortion?

Yes, very much, where you're kind of looking, and everything has kind of a weird kind of glow, and it's just like, it's hard to explain, but it's like, I remember reading about that and, like, oh, that's what it is. I thought I was just really vibing on some tunes, and I was like, damn, I feel like I'm in a music video right now. This is before mushrooms, after mushrooms, or both?

I started smoking weed so young that, like, it would be after. technically, but it wasn't like, it was more tied to the panic attacks, where it was just like, you start having them, then you start being like, what if I get another one? Oh, shit, am I getting another one? Oh, it would suck if I got one here. And you just, you're almost always adrenalized, where I think something happens where your vision just kind of gets,

I guess your body's like, yeah, like, where's, we gotta go into like, you know, super slow motion video game mode so we can see this tiger that's apparently gonna kill us. So what did you do about it? So you read about it. I read about it. Which was the first one where you were like, I'm not, depersonalized or you were

depersonalized I had a vague I was I for there were a couple it was a couple of days and then like it ended up being like a year and a half of like huh yeah like what the fuck's going on

it was like a really bad week and then I got a little bit better every every day but but so I'm wondering it wasn't exactly depersonalized I knew who I was I just didn't understand understand why our stairs.

Yeah, no, my thing was I'd get POV mode where I'd see my hands and I'd be like, these are my hands, I'd like, all right, this is, it would feel alien to me, everything would feel alien and just not, I'm like, that's not mine, it just felt really weird. But I just kind of dealt with it, you know, just kind of kept working on the construction site.

But no, I, it wasn't until I really, like, you know, I went to social work school and I'm like, all right, I'll go to a therapist who I think I'm about to wow with all of my, even despite. Did you ever try to like run and pass somebody like, hey, when you're, no. Do you ever look at your hands and go, these are my hands?

Or like catch a tip of your nose and you're like, well, fuck. But the, no, is when I started talking to this therapist lady, I was like, yeah, man, it's sick. Like, I don't ever feel anything. Everyone's got all these problems. I don't have anys, I don't feel anything. And she was like, yeah, that's not good. And I was like, what?

And then she kind of just like explained it more where it was like, yeah, like that is, that's this and, you know, that this is actually a thing and it, you know, it's kind of a weird thing too, because like, they have they've done studies with kids because a lot of kids if you go in a school setting you're like all right the kids who are like crazy and you know misbehaving they're the kids who have problems and you treat them yeah someone did a cortisol test on like every kid and then you'd see kids who are super quiet but their cortisol would be like nine million because it's just some people just present it yeah yeah and it's also too i don't like i'm not like presenting myself as like oh you know i'm suffering with like a disease or affliction it was just like the way my mind was set up was kind of so yeah and you don't see it as like trauma because you know you don't see it as like trauma because you know you know you don't see it as like trauma because you know you know you're or before and after or like because of this thing. Yeah, I don't really get kind of like lost in the sauce of that stuff.

It's just kind of like I was able to find, because I always just had like a weird feeling, kind of like my whole life, maybe everybody does, I don't know, but I just remember thinking like, damn, I feel kind of weird and then just kind of like just going and going and going and then like eventually like major milestones, like, you know, marriage, graduation, things happening, I just wouldn't feel anything and I'm like,

this probably isn't good. And then once I had a child- But you had the thing of, like they're everybody's faking it kind of yeah or i would just be like what the fuck what are their problem why people would have emotions i'm like you stop having emotions what are you doing like why are you free stop freaking out let's be clear no one should think that graduating from colleges and accomplishment good that's good because i was not no one should cry let me be you should not cry you just paid for a thing and did some hope like nothing happened yeah no i mean unless like

your family was a litter, unless you're, like, you're black in the 50s. Yes, I agree. Or if you're about to taste that AC, man, that was the big thing. My family was like, go get it, man. 72 degrees. You fucking take it in for all of us. Get a fucking summer cold for all of us. Once I had a kid, that, like, smashed.

That was when I was like, whoa. You did care or you didn't care? Oh, big time. You cared, like, so much, it was crazy. Face of my first child was like, it was like, it. It felt like it just shattered like a pain of glass. In the first 10 seconds? As soon as I saw her.

First it was like deja vu where I was like, I know this person and that was like a weird. And then it was just like this overwhelming sense of like immediacy and like just love. And I was like, this is amazing. Tell me about the I know this person. I don't know, I can't explain it, but I saw her face and I was like,

because you think about them so much when they're in the womb and then you see their face and you're like, it was my first impression was like, I know you. And then it was just kind of like, yeah i got to like hold her and stuff right away and it was well that's okay so the idea that you know her it's it's maybe it's imaginary or it's kind of mushroom landy it's very hallucinogenic having a child's very psychedelic man that was the thing where it was like it feels it reminded me of that

yeah there's certain shit in life that you kind of are like oh i'm in the fucking fabric of or the like the yeah of this that's a good way to put it and I don't it's I think I've been in love like I'm in my girlfriend the in that way where it's like we're in I don't want to say the matrix is so corny but like we're in the you gotta get out of the right now bro do you have any fucking red pills bro did you bring my red pills all I'm offering is the truth nothing more that's a really nice way of putting it because yeah you're you're really you're in the fabric of like conscious in a way that is, like, drugs get sort of,

they used to get like a sort of reduced rap of like, yeah, it's fucking go, you'd go listen to me, whatever. And then you do seven grams. Yeah. Or you do, but there, I've done enough ayahuasca and all that shit, that it's, you, I, it's, and it's not that different from the dissociation. It's all, to me, it's all sort of,

non-linear and non-physical. Yeah. No, that makes sense. For me, if I say, you know, if I'm saying this correctly, the dissociation stuff is more like almost like a cold clinical perspective where I'd be like, this is what's happening now. And I'd be like, okay. And, you know, you're almost like narrating it like point by point.

Almost you're dealing with everything theoretically, whereas you're saying, actually being in like, you know, the heat of it. Or spiritual. whatever you want to. Yeah, if you want to be like, I'm totally detached, which, you know, again, I have, I don't know, I think that can be kind of a weird way to interpret it, all that stuff. But, but yeah, no, that was something that really, like, kind of shattered the glass for me, and it was just kind of like, I was just truly, because that was the whole thing. I don't really think I've had, like, those,

at least a positive, like, fall to my knees, positive experience. I've had, like, you know, like, you know, totally gripped with anxiety and anger. That, I've had, like, a full-body experience but I didn't really have like a full body happiness experience and that for me was just like and it was also kind of scared but it was just like you know it was just amazing and then it really like I don't know it just did something really where it was like it just made me just more in touch with just everything in general like like you're saying like when I had the anxiety at first and I'm like oh people have feelings then you have kids you're like oh everyone someone else's kid and you know like if someone was mean to my kid I'd be very upset about that so let me be nice to other people who

were just other people's kids. Yeah. Yeah, just, you know. And did you... Very grounding. Did you... With the second one, did you know her also? They both...

They looked like twins when they were born. Oh, got, got, got it. For me, it was more of like a deja vu, like... What did you just say? Nothing just had a little deja vu. Whoa, and with her, it was just like, hell yeah, because I was already, like, ready for that, you know, did it feel like you were always supposed to have this child?

Or you always knew you were going to have this child or something? It wasn't even like that. It wasn't even that deep or anything. It was just me being like, you know, when you run into someone, you kind of know. You're like, I know you. It was just that feeling. And then it was just like, I love you so much. It usually means they were on law and order.

Sure. Yeah, true. I'm the man you're looking for. It was just like, I remember that was my first impression. And then I was just, yeah, and then you're just like, oh, my God, I love you so much. And then you're like, oh, shit, I'm in charge of your mental well-being. You're like, oh, Jesus Christ, and then, you know, you just freak out and you don't stop. And did it, did it, did it motivate you?

Did it make, did that give you direction? It did, yeah. It was just for at least like, not even direction. It like, because I would like do stuff and be like, is this all I'm going to do? And now if I like, as long as I kind of keep, you know, them in like a comfortable, safe environment, I can at least be like, well, if I do this, this is good. And, you know, even if I like feel like there should be something else or there's more to stuff, I can kind of rest easy being like, yeah, man, like this is kind of what you got to do.

And then, you know, if that doesn't give you like total personal fulfillment, you can totally figure that out. But for me, it was more of like a, the personal fulfillment idea was more of like an alarm. I was like, I need to figure this out or else I'm going to explode. And now I'm kind of just like, whatever. Could you get personal fulfillment from something if you didn't care about it, but it was good for them? Like a check for a thing you didn't want to do? I'm not even saying like the Saudi Arabia account. I'm just saying like that's the obvious one.

But I'm saying like, I get that thing of, of, like, making decisions that will benefit them. Yeah. Is it that direct? Can you, like, circumvent yourself and just be like, no, this is good for them? I don't even, I'm just almost like a sleep because it's so good for them. This isn't even for me. Yeah, I mean, that's like a slippery slope because it's like, I don't have a slippery slope, but like I remember, because I would feel conflict it because it's like, well, I make enough money technically on the podcast where I don't really have to tour for standup.

Yeah. But then I want it. too. It was like, I want to do comedy and I want to, you know, keep going. And I remember, like, feeling extreme guilt around, like, leaving to do stand-up when, like, you know, technically I didn't really have to because the podcast covers my bills, you know, and way more. But it's like, so I remember, like, wanting to do it and then being like, well, it would be good for them overall. And, like, you know, I was like, I was leaving. When we were, like, moving to Texas from Philly, they came and took all of our stuff.

And I'd always be like, yo, we need stuff. That's why I work. It's for you guys, blah, blah, blah. And then they took all of our stuff like a week before to, like, drive. because we were flying. And my kids were just so happy. We had no stuff. And I was like, yeah, this is just for me.

I'm just doing it for my ego. But they were happy in what way? They could run around the house, unobstructed it, because we had literally no stuff in our house. They were like, yeah, this is awesome. We had no couches. Like, everything was gone. Yeah.

So they got to, it was just like a, it was like fun for them. Yeah. When I'd been like, this is why I work, because you guys need couches and blah, blah, but the thing I've arrived at is like, yeah, it's good to do stuff for your kids. It's good to put them first, all that stuff, in terms of like, you know, you can't just like ignore them.

That'd be terrible. But also, like, I have to do a thing that makes me a happy human being. Because if I'm just miserable to be like, well, that way, you know, I've become an accountant, so that way I'm around every day. I'd be fucking miserable and I'd be mean to them. So you have to kind of find a balance where, like, you know, for me, it's like, you know, I'm going to do the things that make me happy, but also be, like, very conscious of the time we get to spend together.

And I want to, like, be structured things. So, like, I'm only away for a couple days, max at a time. Rather than being like, yeah, I'm going for a month, catch you later. It would just kill me. I can't do that. Yeah. Doesn't kill everybody. Yeah, I know.

That's the big thing of like you still, you can't be like, you know, nail yourself to a cross and be like, I'm going to give up everything. Because then you're just going to resent them years later. And they're going to make, why didn't, I didn't ask you to do that. Yeah. So you're like, yeah, but your fucking eyes did. Remember when you were a baby and cried in front of me? Things that your life, do you think your life's improved? Big time.

Huge. Hugely. Like massively, honestly. And how much of it was just? circumstance and how much of it was from your actions. It was a combination because that's the thing too. I don't want to like fall into the thing. We're like, hey guys, relax, life's great.

They're like, yeah, but you have a bunch of money in your community and it's like true. But I will say to answer the question, it's like, you know, there's a book I read, it's called Money in the Meeting of Life. And the thing the guy says, it's kind of blunt. He's like, hey, you don't know what money can't buy until you can't buy it. You gotta have enough money to know what money can't buy. And it's like, you know, okay, fair enough.

But when they look at you and go, yeah, but you have, like, you can be really miserable with a lot of money. Totally possible. It's like, that's not even debatable. And that's also a weird place to be in. And it's like there are the intangibles that kind of define your life and happiness, whether you have money or don't have money or whatever, you know, podcast that's doing well. Or like that stuff doesn't touch the other stuff. Like the material success doesn't touch. There's an area that cannot touch and never will touch.

and you know the material success helps hugely where you can kind of chill you're not you know you have like a boss riding down your back all the time so that's a massive w in terms of like how you feel every day but it's it's not everything at least for me it's not and you know so they they go hand in hand man and it's also like you know i've you can also with material success you know crash into you know like figuratively or literally like crash pretty badly so it's like you know, it goes in tandem because it's like, if you have success, it almost like opens up the world in a way where it's like almost uncomfortable. And if you don't know how to, if you don't really know yourself, you can do like some bad stuff and like really humiliate yourself or like just do like horrible stuff. Well, it's similar to the anger thing where you go like,

I'm so, I guess I'm, I earned this right to do some dushy shit. I'm supposed to or something like. Exactly. This is part of the package. now you know drop a TV out do heroin and have sex with you know a billion people and uh yeah which you know i was married i was married when all came off so i didn't do any cool stuff but the but no it's it's kind of just like you know learning how to kind of just be like responsible for yourself and everyone around you and like you know a lot of people think like if only i had you know if i was you know

famous everything will be cool it's like no dude your problems would be magnified and then under the scrutiny of every single person and you know pray that you're doing something that's It's not horrible because everyone's going to go, oh, look at that. You're actually a piece of shit. Fucking, thank God every day you're not our level of fame. You wouldn't last a minute at this altitude. Yeah, for real. But your fucking little gas mask.

I'm not referring to myself, but it's like, you know, I don't know. Too late. It already went out, it already aired. But the material is a component. I don't want to downplay. I'm like, what the fuck are you all said about? It's weird. It's like, go fuck it.

It's easy. Yes. Everybody says money's not the answer. We all know that, but we go, you know what? Let me make sure. Yeah, exactly. Let me just go make sure it's not the answer. It is for a lot of things.

It is the answer for a bunch of shit. My experience is if you, if to use the aura ring thing, if you have a, if your stress, generalized stress level is 80, right? Mm-hmm. If you have money, you're just going to still be at 80 about other shit. exactly is what happens yeah you know for sure you'll yeah you'll be like this fucking then you're worried about people coming and taking your money or the government or the or this my ex-wife or the then you just becomes like the key is just to work on your fucking nervous

system yeah yeah exactly and then you can go from there but like yeah there's the old saying it's uh i think a schopenhauer it's uh what does what do you say here we money money's like see i'm making the jerk off signal right on here we got one it's a good saying I look I don't mean a name drop money but it was Arthur Schobenhauer I believe he was a dream but no he's money's like salt water the more you drink the thirstier you become yeah and that can kind of get you too where you get real greedy and you become you know but I don't know man it's just one of those things where it's like I thought the weekend said that kidding it sounds like money is like salt water the more you drink the thirsty you become let me drop show up and how yeah come on it's as cool as i'll get to feel but

that's a quote from me able not out the scarp and how well yeah it's uh yeah i i really just one of the the main thing i think about that is like it's yeah obviously it creates it solves a lot of problems you have it's like little tickets for things you want great if you have more tickets you get more things you want that's obviously going to relieve a lot of stress but the problem comes in when you're like you're trading in the tickets and then the things you thought you wanted they just feel empty, then you feel empty, and you're like, well, I did the thing that I thought would solve all my problems, and it didn't. You can even get almost more hopeless in that scenario. You probably are wrong about what you, what you're, why you're doing the things you are doing. Yeah. And honestly,

what I found is like when I'm not just saying this, I get the most charge and bang for my buck in terms of like things I'm doing and why. If I do stuff for other people, I get a better feeling than if I get something cool for myself. And I've literally tested this out. I've had, I remember I won, like a long time ago, 20, whatever it was, 2013 or 14, I won Philly's funniest, which is like, you know, if you're an open micro in Philly, it's like, oh my God. I'm a middle. You literally, you're a host. You get to host.

I get to host. And you're like, I have arrived. And I remember like, you know, you win. You're like, that's a cool feeling. And then I worked in social work briefly. And I remember I got a guy who was like, you know, he was in a bad spot. I got him an apartment for him and his kids. And it was like, you know, he had paid for it?

or you like did the paper work? Half the year was paid for, but it was like, no, but it was like, it was like a nonprofit I worked for when people got out of jail and you had to like negotiate with landlords, you'd be like rent this guy an apartment and he was up against some stuff that like he needed an apartment for, you know, custody stuff. You'd make the guy, you'd make the guy

who just got a jail wait in the car. You'd be like, look, I'll handle it. It's all cold calls. It's all cold calls and I'm calling and being like, hey, well, you know, I got a tenant for you, half the years paid. They're like, yeah, tell me more. And I'm like, just got out of jail.

They're like, wow. So you got to do a lot of that back and forth. I remember it was coming down to the wire, and they were trying to throw this guy. The place I was at was like, ah, we have a place for him. And it was in like Kensington. It was like needles everywhere.

And he had kids. And he was like, I do not want to live there. And I was like, I got you, brother. And we were coming up to a deadline. So it was like getting kind of, you know, it was a big deal for him. And I remember I finally got a landlord to say yes. It was in like a somewhat safe area,

way safer and nicer area than the thing the place was trying to put him at. And it was like as soon as a guy said, yes, come by, we'll sign the papers. Me and him in an office. And it was just like, we just high-fived. And it was like such an incredible feeling. And I remember being like, damn, that felt as good as winning what I thought was like the most important thing in the world at the time. It was like an eye-opener.

It was like, damn, you can really make yourself feel good by doing nice stuff too. It's a shame you've never done it again. I know. I quit. It was Matt McCusker. He's got a podcast. and he's got a Netflix special. Good guy, good episode, interesting shit,

brought Dissociation in. We love him for it. Matt McCusker. Thank you.