Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Matthew McConaughey

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Matthew McConaughey (New book! 'Poems & Prayers) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks.  00:00 A Time To Kill  00:58 Intro  3:05 Musical Talking  4:40 Seems Resolved  7:06 Significance  12:27 Violence of childhood  16:00 Parenting 20:39 Dating two prom queens 21:45 Charisma 24:41 Heartbreak 29:42 Marriage  33:57 Sponsor: BetterHelp 36:02 Sponsor: CookUnity 38:00 Nice Guys vs. Good Men 46:00 Serving vs. Leading the Family 51:44 Rom Coms 1:04:39 Jealousy 1:05:55 Prep for Dazed & Confused 1:10:27 His approach to films 1:12:30 True Detective 1:17:22 What is a movie star? 1:20:18 Choosing Parts 1:24:44 Dazed & Confused Ending 1:27:24 Meeting expectations 1:31:32 Personal standards 1:37:12 Sponsor: Mando 1:38:39 God 1:43:08 Egotistical Utilitarian 1:54:55 Matthew Reads From His Book ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Go to https://www.cookunity.com/nealfree for free premium meals for life. Thanks to CookUnity for supporting the show! Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with Mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code [NEAL] at https://www.shopmando.com! #mandopod  Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We're good. Everything's all in recording. What says, let me pull in this just before we do that. We kind of give it a time to kill feel. Extra sweat on that baby. Yeah, a little sweaty. Josh Joe Schumacher, if we like, said, Joe, he since passed away. I said, Joe, what's the secret? Like, give me one common denominator in all your movies.

He stood up and he goes, ah, ha, ha, went to a chalkboard, pulled a piece of chalk, goes, S-A-X-Y, baby. Yeah, but that was. extra extra spritz from jail. It's the southern law scene. We're going to do one. Fucking roll his sleeves up. Do we have suspenders?

Let's get the fucking guys some suspenders. Yeah. And fucking let's do a southern, are we doing a southern lawyer scene or what? Come on. Put a ceiling fan up there. Yeah, fucking get me a ceiling fan. Get a fucking cut away to a guy in a hat.

All right, well, let me do an intro. Hey, guys. It's Neil Brennan's the Block's podcast. I'm as surprised as you are about this guest. He was a hand model. I just read his book, so I know I have a lot of fresh information. He's a hand model. He only referenced two musicians in his books and his new book,

and he's regular. He mentioned Zizi Top and John Mellencamp. He's exactly who you think he is, from what I can tell. He was in a time to kill. Do you think the jury should convict Carl Lee Haley? Interstellar. We used to look up in the sky and wonder at our place in the stars he was in uh remember how they used to do true detective season two he

was in season one true detective time is a flat circle he was one of the true detectives and uh Dallas buyers club which incidentally is what people heckle me with because i'm skinny so in youtube comments they'll go hey Dallas buyers club it's literally all they free words so it's exciting for them it's it's a two bird with one stone situation this is too long an intro He's got a new book. Poems and prayers, which I, I don't want to say I was dreading. I'm not a poetry guy. This isn't quite poetry.

Okay. It's, it is poetry, but it's also like whatever Benjamin Franklin was doing, like Maxim's. Okay. You called them prescriptions in the last book. Yeah. And I bet you've been thinking of them since you were 10. Been thinking of them and they've been coming to me and I've been hearing them and stealing them and writing them down on my arm with the Sharpie on a mat. box and now on notes and anywhere I can and then I gather all up and see if I find themes in the

way I've been thinking over the last 40 years, 30 years, decade, two months and put them in those silos and this was the next thing that came out. But I hear what you're saying about you go that they're not poems. I mean, look, they are poems and I did, you know, it's nice when you put a little rhyme to some, to a prescription. Yeah. Makes it a little easier to digest. Makes me feel like we don't have to have our ID to get the beer. And if they can be a little musical or a little more, I find it that's a little rhythm. How long you've been doing music in your speech patterns? I've asked that question this morning.

Well, it's you, I noticed it. I've noticed it before I listen to the audio book. It's just, it's a Southern thing, but it seems especially you, there's a special place in it for you. Yeah, I think it's even more of a rhythmic thing than a Southern thing. But I wasn't conscious of it. I didn't always probably speak like this as I got more maybe confident with what I was talking about or knew what the hell I was talking about.

I probably dipped into more of a baseline and I do end my sentences on a little bit of what could be conceived southern aid down, which I'm told relaxes people to then come in on a higher note and get going through and then we'll end it up on a down note and pay down. And then we'll go, it changes a little bit.

Do you pick parts, based on it no i just i think i i think i from maybe from studying scripts and going what is the active word and the description it's usually the verb that's that that's the living in stage direction or no and and like understand and forget the stage directs i'm talking about like and understand who my character is yeah or um you know i'll think i've probably gotten a tendency to go oh hit the verb point, and that's the living word, not on the nouns, not on the adverbs, not on the adjectives. Those are all just sort of tints along the tree, hit the burb. That's the holy word.

You've been yourself probably from your earliest memories, right? Meaning, you seem pretty, you seem like you're, you're, it's, there's not a lot of doubt. Maybe that's presently. Maybe that's something you got to. But you seem pretty like set in who you are and not questioning it. Is that true? To a large extent, I think that's true. Now, even based on absolute malaprops and lies.

And then sometimes just pure denial. Look, I thought I was little Mr. Texas for 32 fucking years. What does that mean? Meaning I went to a contest in 1977. Banderer, Texas, went up on stage, rode on a horse, answers questions about 4-H and shit. Looked nice and my vest and everything. And all of a sudden, confetti started coming down. They handed me a trophy.

And my mom goes, you did it, your little Mr. Texas. Took a picture. But it turns out. Three days later, man, that picture was next to my breakfast table every morning. She'd be like, look at you, little Mr. Texas. And there I was holding that trophy. A few years ago, that was in 1977. A few years ago, right in Greenlights, I find that picture.

And I got curious about what was on the nameplate. And I zoomed in on the nameplate. and it was fucking runner up. So I was, you know, in my mind, I was a little Mr. Texas. Did that give me some confidence, some sense of identity to maybe walk out of the door a little more confident? Probably. Would I be sitting here if I thought I was running up?

You know? Yes. Well, that's what's funny about like having, just like having, watching your stuff and then listen to the book and reading this one. And you are pretty much what I thought you were. And what I, what I, I have a comment for you, which is you're a good advertisement for human life. If I was like an a, if an alien came down and they're like, who's, who's having a good time? Who's, what's this being human thing all about?

I got like, we should show him a kind of hey. Oh, I said. Because you, you are, it seems like you're having a really good time and you don't seem. very racked with I had a question which is what's the most negative thing you hear regularly in your head well first thanks to that compliment

I'm glad you seen as a reputation good representation of a human life I do I really do I think most people would agree with that I appreciate that um significance biggest doubt significance I seem to

I know I need need accomplishment. I need to have finish lines to cross, to build towards and crossing continue building. Not to finish and then go, ah, now I can rest, but things, I need to be on the approach, on the build. And on the way. You need a destination. Yeah, even though I know that I don't believe there's a final one. I don't, I've gone through enough times where I thought I could get something, success money, and go, oh, it's a domino, I don't know, I'm a bullshit. it's not family no it's not it's a nice it's a nice finish line that can help give quality of life but it's not a finish it's not the finish line anyway significance i

the doubt and that i'll get with myself when i feel stagnant or don't have something that i'm building i just took a vacation for two months i got to learn a vacation bro i was i was okay but you know when i got most relaxed when i got on that emirates flight that was a 11 hours straight, and I had a seat to myself, undivided attention, me and me and my mind to sit there and go back through the little jots, things where I only had little moments or an hour here along the vacation to write an idea down or to write something down. When I had that 11 hours, I was like, oh, this is heaven. I was like, why you feel that way?

I'm not beating myself up or pissed off up, but I was like, huh, you didn't learn on a vacation better. You were there for too much. The quality of it was great. Everybody, the family had a great time. I had a great time. We had a good time. We danced. We slept well, all that stuff.

But I was always like only 80% in it. Do you judge that part of yourself? I'm trying not to, but I'd like to be able to be at home in my past times or doing nothing more or not having anything on my mind or being able to turn off my mind with maybe something that I regret that I could have done better that day and maybe without the anticipation of wondering, ah, did I do enough to prepare for tomorrow what I got coming up? And just being able to trust, dude, you got it. You're human.

Forgive yourself for that bogey today. You know what I mean? Not freaking perfect. Okay, you had to raise your voice. That means something wasn't taken care of before you had to raise your voice. But at least you didn't have to get past raising your voice, okay? Shake hands on that. But, all right, and tomorrow, dude, you aren't prepared.

Don't, you set. You don't have to, as I have that change in lanes. You don't have to put on a blink you're changing your lane right now. to remind yourself and trust that what you've done, believe in what you just did a little bit more. I think most midlife crises are men that aren't given enough credit to what the hell we did in the past. Instead of, oh, I got to have a whole new future. It's like, wait a minute, let me look back. Is there, what have I built to this point?

That's worth continuing to put log on that fire instead of, oh, what have I done? I haven't done enough. Everything I've done has been mendacious. Let me clear the plate and, you know, get a tattoo, a fake booblam on a motorcycle and start over. Well, that's what's interesting. Because you're talking about kind of like maybe judging your masculinity or the thing that makes you do stuff, the thing that made you make money, build a car for yourself, take you from Little Mr. Texas second place to Academy Award, whatever, all that stuff.

And then we go, well, there's a new thing where they've sort of changed the rules a little bit on men, I think a little bit where it's like, no, now you have to be emotionally available and all this other stuff. and then we judge ourselves for that, for not being better at that. But at the same time, you're good at the physical builder, getting stuff done stuff. And I'm not, I'll be, look, my wife and our household, I don't get any of that pressure to be anybody other than. Do you feel like cultural pressure? No.

Okay. No. Mind you, you know, that's my relationship. My wife and she, when I go out the door, she tells me, don't look over your shoulder. I got this. I go fucking conquer. Go. You know, she's the one that tells me.

Great. I think you need to take a little solo trip out to the desert, bud. Like tomorrow. How can she tell? Oh, tension spans getting a little short. Maybe I'm not flowing with the conversations. I'm looking for that time to wait a, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll be there in a minute. My edges are there. I'm not as cool with being able to just dance through the raindrops and handle more things, going to eloquent and funny way when my sense of humor starts to dip. Where was your humor on that? You snapped. And you use them, Connie, if you got enough sleep and you're all right in your head,

you're hand on that with a plumber. You're bouncing it back with humor. And we all laugh and it wasn't a crisis. Ooh, you caught an edge there. You get enough sleep. Yeah, I'm good enough sleep. Well, you're not getting enough time with your step. If you like, need something, get out of here.

So she'll pack up the car with the stakes in the water and the tequila and go, get out of here. Don't call me. Of course, that's the reason I do call her. Right. And then she's right every time. And then I come back. Ah, I needed that.

I wasn't as far behind or as far away from accomplishing something that I needed for my own self-significance as I thought I was. But thank you for that time that I got to go spend. Reading the book or listen to the book, it was interesting thinking about how different the world was when you were a kid when I was a kid where a lot of it's physical pretty violent. Like, you know, you lived in it. not like you lived in a violent world, but like your brother fought your dad, you fought the bouncer with your dad, like, you got trouble, you got the belt. Yeah. And, and you had a great line, which is, I don't know if it's your dad's or yours, but the, the conflict, basic, violence as a unifier. How does that, that's a different world. Yeah. How do you deal with knowing it's effective?

Yep. And it doesn't scar you irreparably or if at all. How do you deal with being a dad? And also, how do you deal with just being a person in the world now? Yeah, right? Look, we all know, and let's just talk about, I'm a stereotype men for a while. We all know there's things that we didn't do for fear of, oh, if I pull that off, I might kick my ass. If I do that and I get caught, I'm going to get the belt.

There's things I did not do growing up that I should not have done, and I did not do them for fear of that ass whooping. Thank you. I feel the way about religion, by the way, where it's like it's caused every war and it's like it's also stopped so many people from getting punched in the face. Yeah, well, there goes to the value of guilt

that can also come with religion too. It is a bit of a bumper and a compass for us. But the, the, it was corporal. It was quick. My parents were like, look, we're not going to take away the most valuable thing in your lifetime. Damn, it just bend over and get over.

And I won't talk about it again. I remember I was telling my kids this story yesterday. But we had snuck off campus, me and Mike Bobo, who since moved on, he was a high school quarterback, Longview Lobos. We snuck off went to Sonic. We got back and all of a sudden we get called the principal's office. Well, what had happened is one of the teachers was it, the Sonic driving and saw us and turned us in. So it was like, all right, D-Haw Saturday or Licks? Boba took D-Haw.

And I went, yeah, okay, D-Haw. And I got one step out of the door and I started to hear the hazing that I was going to get from my brothers, my dad, and my mom. a dinner table. What's D. Hall? D.L. detention. Oh, got to go, got, six, seven, seven hours of your Saturday, all right? And I stepped one foot out of the principal's door and I can hear the hazing that I'm going to get hammered that night from my family. You did what? You'd let them take your and I just went back and I said, Coach Shanko, can I get the licks? Can I get the four licks? He said, yep, been over. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, walked out. And I remember my buddy who had taken D. D. Hall was like, that sucked for 20 seconds, but they got your Saturday, man. Yeah. And that was

just it was over for no injury it was a fear factor it was a quick pain i've had you know we and raised my children i don't again my if i have to raise my voice i'm already my head's computing what did you not handle to get to this point what was not you talk about you think about your your side of the street you don't think about them oh i'm thinking about mind what did i not hear what did i not listen what was not understood where did i where could i have stepped in in a calmer moment and helped them get to this before it got to where I'm having to say it for the third time and raise my damn voice. I don't want to have to do it, but sometimes as a father, you've got to get everyone's attention. Get your foot out, get your finger out of the socket. No, get your finger out

the socket. Gay, hey, pop, huh? Those can save lives. There's a car coming, whatever that may be. I'm trying not to do it as physically as my parents did, and I haven't done it that way so far. Does it mean a lot more talking and explaining, sometimes excessively, I believe. Yes, does the, because I said so argument, which was no argument, was a statement that I heard, is that sort of out, that's not used anymore? It's not coming out of my mouth because they want an explanation. And I've chosen to try and go, okay, I'll explain. But then you start to notice that, ah, they're working me. They know.

Yeah. You know, they get the gig that how long can we talk. And then, and then what if then, and what about, well, what I meant was, and so you're like, pretty good storytellers yourself. I know the gig. I've tried to weasel out of it, just like that. Cut it. End of conversation.

So how can you have short, how can you have the long ones that you need to have? And how can you have the short ones that are like, look, you know what you did? That's it. Cut the shit. No more. If you do it again, there's going to be major consequences. And the consequences don't just suck for you. They suck for me because now we've got to take time.

We can't just say, yeah, we're all going Saturday. No, Johnny can't go because he's grounded on Saturday. So guess what? We got to call someone over to come and wait around and hang around the house, a nanny, to be with you on Saturday because we're all going to go. And then you're going to be bumming when we're leaving. And then we're going, so you're screwing it up for all of us, man. We're trying to navigate that.

And look, we got, and each kid's different, too. It's that old good coach Brown saying, I'll treat you all fairly, but I won't treat you the same. You know, we got foundational rules in the house that we expect to be each other and things that we got to do and pick up the slack and the team play. And we got one who likes to skate on those a little bit. you know what I mean? And his brother and sister will pick up the slack a little bit. And I'm like, quit doing that.

Or, you know, if you got someone clean up the room and there's trash in the room and there's something they drank from last night and half empty can, you're like, don't pick that up. Let him go ahead and keep stuff in the room until the damn roaches start coming. Let's let them, they're going to, that's what's going to happen if they do this when they get out of their own, their first apartment. So you're trying to balance between the two. And with art, my kids,

Well, I'm trying to keep them confident and being proud and honored to be McConaughey's and what their mom and dad have done and the access they get, but keep them from being entitled. And that's one of a personal thing that we, Camille and I are dealing with as best we can with our kids and the affluence that we have. And we've got to stay on that. Yeah, it can't be easy, right? I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's every, the, the, the, the, yeah, you know, you could say, flights and the food and. Oh, check this out. You want to know this? Four years old, my son, Levi, baby seat. Second, second, second row. Cars taking us, black suburban driver, the studios flying us out to. And when the studio, we would take private when the studio would take us places and then we'd fly commercial the other time. we only threw private probably four times and commercial probably about eight my kid's four

when we would fly private I wouldn't tell them we were going to fly private it'd be a surprise right my four year old son they hated TSA right they were like fuck then what a I gotta fucking take my shoes off why I was it's close

but check this out four years old kids taking three private flights in his life we're pulling up to the gate they now see it's private it opens up Sherman Oaks and my son says from the back, oh, yippy, I sure do like taking the black car

of the little plane more than the yellow car of the big one. I'm like, come in and I looked at each other and we're like, oh shit, he's right, but okay. And then we've, you know, said, okay, you're going to have to be good at something and hope the world demands it. Yeah, because they want to keep traveling like this.

They can get all sorts of entitlements till they're 18. And then when they, I mean, then you got to decide how much rent are you going to pay. how am when are you going to kick in when it's the because they'll figure it out they'll go like fuck it my debt yeah and it's like yeah and it's not even that's just what life is yeah probably it doesn't have to be it's i'm sure it's it's a hard uh thing to figure out a hard thing to balance for you it's it's one it's one of the challenges i think we're doing a pretty good job of we'll see they're good they're good little human beings i know that they're you know uh it's

It's nice when they go out into the world and you hear from other parents and out in the world, come back to you and go, hey, Levi or Peter, they tell you something that your kid did. You're like, oh, I didn't think they understood that. Ah, they do. That got in. That's who they are. Good job, Camilla. Okay. You know.

Okay. So you're a little Mr. Texas. Yeah. And you were dating the prom queen from two different high schools, which is back in the 80s, guys, you could get away with it. I would think go away. over and pick up the one from the other school in front of their football team and while their football team went out to practice and her ex of two weeks of a week ago was the captain and i'd be sitting there leaning against my car in her school's parking lot waving in her and and nobody suspected

anything no no it was a parent nobody called the other girl no one called the the girl from Oh, I don't know what you. I don't know what you're talking about on that, man. I was, you know, you said it. You said you were in two different problems. No, but that's how that's a bad communication was back then. You just couldn't. It was like the turn of the center.

You just couldn't get word. It was like transatlantic cables from one town in Texas to another. You couldn't, you could. Or the other side of town. Yeah. Um, okay. So I want to talk about charisma. Because you got it.

Kiddo. You got it. You, one of the most charismatic people I can think of. If your daughter came home and, and she said, I'm dating a guy who's really charismatic. Yep. Let's say she knew with that man, whatever. Yeah. Would you, what would you tell her?

Would you tell her to be careful? What I'm saying is, our charismatic, the older I get, the more I, whenever somebody's charismatic, I'm like, uh-oh. Mm-hmm. You're lucky in that all you're trying to sell me for the most part is a story. You're a movie, whatever, a book every once in a while. So, poetry. Yeah.

But a car. Wrong before anybody paid me to drive more. But turns out the car, the Lincoln commercials were just a very well-paid poetry slam. They were. It turns out. That's what they were. Yeah. Sometimes you've got to go back to actually move forward.

Uh, having read these things fucking Lincoln commercials. Um, so what, talking about, talk to me about charisma and what should the human being make of it? And do you fucking wield it knowingly? Wheeled it knowingly. Oh, man, I mean, that's kind of like, let me say this. What, you know. Because it's fun to do. Well, I don't know how knowingly I wield it.

Look, it's like charm. Same thing. Okay. Okay. I didn't just start this. I'm winking at the great-grandmother as quick as I'm winking at the newborn, as quick as I'm winking and as innocently as I'm weaken at, from age six

the girlfriend I mean it was pretty that's just we were a it was a like relationships and seeing the charm and somebody seeing the beauty and someone

appreciating that and in a non-sexual way we're just sort of like a great way to like I don't know we raised cut my dad did it my yeah buddy we were a hugging family

a loving family a jiving family there you go everybody kind of was in sales in the 70s and age everyone was in sales it's part of it's probably inherently

part of salesmanship um charisma if my daughter comes home and she was dating me or who i the kid like who i was at 15 i'd be like okay okay okay this this kid's got some confidence he's got the gift of gab too he's he's looking me in the eye he's shaking my hand good firm handshake yes sir's no sirs he even brought you home on time and all that stuff okay all right he's got his ducks in raw i like that he's putting out that effort but he's also he does have gleam you know what he's he's he's I would I don't think this is a guy that's looking to lock down and get married right now. So just know that this guy's bouncing around and enjoy your time with him, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't lock in totally with him right now.

Maybe I would enjoy your time with him, and, but he's, he's floating. He's floating. How did you deal with that? Because I always say most, most men are just. Until I wasn't, too. Until I was completely wrong until boom, I fell in love and like was, go. and you know and got my heart broke which happened many times before your wife oh yeah oh that's interesting yeah no i've i've i've had my i've i've had my heart broken as many or more times and i think

i've broken hearts i yeah i mean but she's i had an early one i love you were words you didn't say i'd said to four people in my life and this girl we've been dating for quite a while and that though that came out of her mouth i am 17 okay 16 i'm sorry 16 she's 18 and those words came out of her mouth to me one night and i just what went over my body was completely wow a week later in response i write her a note and handed her when i was dropping her off broke it with me the next day when you requited it yep i've had a couple of those well geez i I hope not lesson learned, but I probably have some of that residual, the residual scars of that in me that I'm still probably shaking.

I've had this one, too. You ever overgifted? I'd probably go on. Okay. The girlfriend, another girlfriend, I go off in sophomore year, go off to Spain on the field trip to Madrid and everything. And I find this beautiful yard row and I get this great little trinket of crystal. Oh, it's perfect. She'll love that.

But I've still got two weeks. I see a couple more things that inspire me. They go, oh, she'll love that, and she'll love that. And I wrapped them up, all separately, three different gifts, and I came back. And one of those gifts were plenty. Yeah. But I don't know how to hang on to the other two for later, which would have been the smart thing to do in hindsight. You gave all three.

It was too much. Next day, broke up. It was too much. It was another version of the I love you. Not as probably sinister because the I love you as soon as I said it. It was almost like that gave that person a validation. Oh, got you. bye so you felt like because i always say like most men are not attractive to women women are very

they're very high standards for the most part you're you pat you're very very attracted to women did you have to kind of keep that in mind like most guys are just trying to get late right right you were you you you're i would assume it was a lot of incoming business as we would say you're getting a lot of offers more than was i'm not getting a lot of offers offers, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm chasing, I'm chasing girls. I mean, that was, you know, as long as I made my grades. Other than that, it was party and chase girls. That was it. I'm talking about capital M, capital. Well, I'm probably until until 25. Something, something happened at 25 where I wasn't okay with drop you off of the date. Now I'm going to go pick up.

I'm going to the other side of town. I, I wasn't, even if they didn't know and I could get away with it. I was becoming uncomfortable with the dishonesty of it. So it just kind of didn't work for me. Now, I had times after 25 where I was dating three different girls, but I was like very open about that to each one. And, you know, that's, that's where I am. Uncool, please let me know. But as far as someone that I was dating and serious with,

I just, I became a really wanted to be a one, one woman guy. Like that was your goal. Yeah, it's just where I was. It wasn't a goal. It's just what I found myself interested in. And you had long-term girlfriends and they would, and how were you being a boyfriend? I think it was a good boyfriend. You know, those relationships still respect those women very much. And I believe I'm still respected by them. That's some wonderful relationships with some wonderful women that we, with all sincerity, went quite far into getting to know each other and who we were. And, you know, then there comes a time where you got to go, the next, oh, it was like, you want to do this? And that's another time to go, well, let's reassess where we are, what I need, what you need, what I want, what you want, what I am to you, what you are to me.

And for whatever reasons, and those relationships didn't go further than that. But they went in, you know, I use this term owners and renters mentality. I would say it's funny because I I wonder if women you've dated heard have heard you use the term owners he's like some is owning and renting right I was going into to in I've had quite a few wonderful relationships where I was in in for the ownership like hey I I mean this I this might have this seems to have the promise and might have the possibility and I really would hope that this could work out forever yeah you know and got to a point where no it didn't but or we wouldn't have known if we wouldn't both believe that man, this could be that. May I ask, what kept you from, like, getting married to Camilla? Like, what... What kept me? Yeah. I was a little scared.

Well, I got kids, I don't know, do you know the story about Levi, what he asked me? Yeah, it's in the book. Which is cool. So things are going great. It's Camilla and I dating. One kid? At this point. Yeah.

Things are going wonderful. Now, we always laugh about, hey, you know, Does it have anything to do subconsciously with the fact that her parents were married twice and divorced three times? And my parents were divorced twice and married three times. Does we have anything subconsciously that's saying like, I don't know about this marriage thing. To each other, his parents were married and divorced multiple times. And hers as well. But they ended in divorce.

Same thing to split three divorces, two marriages. So things were going great while we were dating. They really were. We were still growing and maturing in our relationship. you know had a bit pushback against this whatever it is if i do it i don't want it to be because oh that's what you're supposed to do yeah oh sign the thing legally it's i don't want to get academic on the fucking reason we're going to get married i want to play offense and want to do it but i didn't we were like man things are going great she came across and what was it what was

the first move that she made she did something that my mom did which was similar to like she handed my dad the invitation to his wedding and said your mom handed the yeah and said either let me know if you're going to be there or not you got 12 hours to our wedding yeah yeah here it is yeah yeah she i'd been a knee and proposed she said yes and that was on christmas day but then we were just engaged and engagement was another step forward of closeness but it was like i wasn't setting a date and she gets pregnant along here now with livingston our third and so now I remember saying she handed me the invitation to our wedding. And I was like, oh, great.

And I was, she always jugs me. Like, you were like, great. I said, I was. I just needed to, I'm glad you threw the date out there because I was just rolling along. Oh, yeah, we'll do it over here. We'll do it over there. And she gave the date. I said yes.

And she was also like, look, and I'm pregnant. And in a way, I'm dressing up in a wedding gown. And we're hanging hot bump down here on my belly. So we're going to, we're going to do this. And I'm glad she did. She pushed me to it. I wanted to do it, but just had not set a date before. My son, though, what led me to asking her to marry me

was he comes into me one day, again, around that same age when he was like, I like the black car of the small plane better than the yellow one of the big one. He goes, why is it Mama McCona? Hey, you're like this, motherfucker. That's exactly what I was like, well, I mean. Square-ass, motherfucker. While I'm bumbling through this answer

that I want to be really good, because I was probably going to remember it. He goes, are you scared? And I went, yeah, I am a little bit. And that really got me thinking. I started to have talks with different husbands and men and elders that I looked up to who had had long marriages. I started to have a talk with my pastor, Dave Haney,

and then Austin, Texas at River Bend Church. And he began to challenge me. He was going like, oh, hey, I'm not going to say yay or day, but let me ask you this. What's the bigger risk? to continue, which is going great. Or to say, no, I want to take a dive deeper and go on an adventure and make a covenant between us and God and go forward on that adventure. And that scared me in the right way where I was like, oh, if you don't get married to this woman.

Because there was no question if she was the woman for me in my mind and in my heart. No one else I wanted to be with. No one else I wanted to have children with. No one else wanted to wake up with. All of that stuff completely had up. There was no reticence anywhere there. But that, that, that challenge and then going, ah, that's it. You're being a bit of a chicken shit, my guy.

This is the woman. Yes, this is who do it. Take the next step. And I asked her to marry me and things. She said yes. And then we went on. She set the date. We got married.

And that's been 13 years. And we've done each other for 19. This show was sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, I know we want to believe that anyone. is qualified to to everyone's kind of a therapist now everyone's kind of a dietitian everyone's kind of because you know university of Wikipedia and YouTube and Facebook and all and stuff but look most people are not experts especially when you're talking about relationships anxiety depression or other clinical issues uh I gotta be honest they might not know what they're talking

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when i'm here i have certain things i like to eat and i get them from cook unity basically to service it's like a bunch of different chefs with dozens and dozens of options you order like a week ahead they have about 300 small batch meals and you can tailor them to your dietary needs your cravings. It's not frozen. It's ready to eat meals delivered directly your door by going to cookunity.com slash kneel-free, N-A-L-F-R-E-E-E, or enter code Neal-F-R-E-E-E-Bee, before checkout for free premium meals for life. Incredible. They have a vegan pasta. I believe it was lemon with like cashew cheese that was really good. I get burritos that are really good. They have impossible meat stuff. They have tofu stuff. They have chickpea stuff. Of course, they have steak,

chicken fish, the stuff you like to eat. They have individual chefs that so the chefs aren't making a billion things. It's like it's a bunch of chefs making a few things that they excel in. You don't have to cook. You don't have to shop. You have to really think once they deliver you're good. Fuel your day with the freshest best tasting meal delivery made by award winning chefs. Go to cookunity.com slash any al FRE or enter code kneel free before checkout for free premium meals for life. That's free premium meals for life by using code neel free or going to cookunity.com slash n-a-l-f-r-re-e-cookunity.com meal-free. Reading the books and the two books, do you see, I was thinking about you and tell me if it's true. Do you see morality and or

behavior as kind of a game? And I don't mean like, like a frivolous game. I mean, it seems like when you, it seems like you game things out. Like what's the braver thing here? Right. What's the harder thing here? What's the there? And if you can fold this in, you made a difference between a nice guy and a good man.

Talk. Talk about all that. Yeah, man. So in the way you're stating, do I see the game? Absolutely with an outcome. And there are choices we can make that I have to do. with morality and ethics that may mean sacrifice now but reward greater tomorrow in this life practically

forget heaven or not whether that exists there are larger paybacks there are choices on the simple basis of making the right choice with the strangers that you unbe-knowist don't even know it but you're building an army people that got your back in a dark alley somewhere that you didn't even know you knew. I believe in that. They're also very conscious ones. There are transactions that can lead to transformations. I mean, I mean, I think arguably, it's kind of hard to say every relationship's not somewhat transactional. It doesn't mean you're stealing from the other one. It just means, hey, man, yeah, please use me and I'm using you and we need each other. I like your energy. You like my energy. Yeah. Do I measure those? Do I compute in my mind.

certain things that I go, if I do this now, it's going to be great. But I'm going to have, I prefer we'll hang over tomorrow because it will take me into the debit section with my wife. Because she's leaving in two days and I have been, I spend time with her and I know I want to go to this game, but if I go to the game, I'm going to, she's going to wait for a week. It's going to be, it's going to haunt, it's going to hang over us, but whatever those decisions are. I'm measuring all these other things.

You've always done it this way? So because reading the book, I'm like, is this how he remembers it or were you actually, do you make calculations like this in fairly real time? I think so. Yeah, I believe it. I think I do. I think I do. I mean, we have, I have measurements like this, you know, instead of, well, you know, you did that.

You cleaned the dishes or you do that. You make the bed. What do you mean, man? I mean, I got, you know what? Camilla, you don't, for instance, you don't like clean dishes. I don't like it, but I really don't mind it. Like, it's an eight. It's one of the things you really don't like.

It's kind of about four. I'm like, fuck, I'll do it. I mean, instead of playing the tip for tat away, you ought to, I mean, make the bed. Well, yeah, no, I should make it. I'm the last one out of bed. Thank you for letting me sleep longer because you don't want to be around me with less sleep. I'm making a bed. That kind of thing.

So just add up instead of going, like, well, who's supposed to do what? Well, how much do you not want to do it? and how much I'm not want to do it. Neither one I just want to do it, but it's got to be done. It's kind of a four for me. It's a six for you. Shit, I'll do it.

So I'm always trying to measure those things. But there's a bigger game, like you're saying about earlier, about like, what's the significance? Like, what are you building toward? That's, you seem really aware of that. Right. Building towards more harmony.

Building towards. See in mind. wife be able to have a great scat-tooth, wet-eyed smile because she's relaxed enough and feel secure enough with me and her and how the kids are doing and how the household's going

and what she's got going on in her life that she's gotten enough time with her and that she's gotten enough time with me and the kids that she's got her space that she's, I call it Scooby, the way she moves. You can talk about the way she moves through her room. Oh, yeah. Oh, you're doing good. Uh-huh. We're in a groove here.

and I know I'm part of her groove and she knows she's part of my groove. You know, if I'm leaving to work and I have regrets about some way that I've left my wife for the last thing I said, maybe was cutting or something, and I'm on the phone going, hey, sorry,

that was a bogey, man, that came up. Because, one, it's better for us and I mean to say I'm sorry, but two, selfishly, I'm going to have that in my mind all day at work. and I'm not going to be completely present sitting here talking to you if I go I got a firestorm back home boy when I get out of here I got to go handle this shit I'm not as good of it I'm not going to be here yeah as much yeah so I'm doing it selfishly so I can be more present

but I'm also not I'm also doing it because it's going to be better for my relationship you know what you could have handled that better McCona hey so you in the moment you were playing the win yeah you won big shit what does that get you walking around now you're night I'm more stressed. Now I'm looking on my shoulder regretting. Now I've gotten the longer with each minute I'm away, my wife's getting a little more unhappy and purved with me. Maybe she's even going to get cold and act like, no, it doesn't matter. Oh, shit, that's even worse. Now we're leading up to it's going to be a big sit down to clear the air and instead of just, dude, handle it. And saying sorry, I don't, was not something that I grew up around hearing a lot. And my hunch now,

and I'm trying to practice is, dude, don't make a big deal of the, I'm sorry, use it at will. Don't use it flippantly because if somebody's saying, sorry too much, you're like, dude, we'll change your freaking behavior. But use it as a, as a, hey, I'm sorry about that. My bad. I didn't want I intended to do, but I didn't consider how it would land on you. That, how that hurts you means a lot more than how much I needed to say it that way. My bogey, sorry. Easy, let's move on.

That doesn't need to be a 45 minute sit down to discuss that. Let's just use that. Seriously, my bad, bogey. It can be part of the open vernacular now. And I think it, I find it's easier and life's more harmonious with, in relationships when we do do that. But, yeah, that's interesting because, again, you seem so solved as a God. You seem so like, McConaughey, man, everything's good.

All right, all right, all right. All right, all right. We're going to go. I got to go. I got this. I got a cold beer. Like, it all just looks fucking resolved. happily ever after so it's good to hear oh you're here in the construction yeah i'm hearing the

like what the that you are impetuous that you do say cutting shit to win and your wife does get mad of you and then you do get preoccupied with like i got to resolve that so but and it's not all the calculation of what's the good man thing here and what's the it's you you you fuck up all that sure like everybody yes yeah and i work hard to find my balance and when i i'm I am not working hard to find my balance and being considered that my balance has to do with a lot of other people's balance, especially my family and the balance of our family or the balance of my relationship, for instance, since we're talking about relationships, if I'm not working that hard, if I'm just standing sturdy, I'm good, well, that's when I start mistaking certainty for selfishness. I'm a fan of the right kind of selfishness, but this certainty, son of a bitch, that can be where all of a sudden I'm like, No, that's how it is. What part of this do you not see is that's just how it is? Uh-oh, uh-oh.

So I can mistake my own certainty, and that's where I'm like, oh, you're coming in too solid. You're coming in too onbound. You dug your heels in. You're overconfident. You're over-comfortable. You are resolved. Well, guess what? Congratulations, but fuck you.

You know what I mean? Who do you? We got a family here, man. You don't know where my day's been. you don't know where my family's been and you know what just because you're riding high and everything's great and you got your nine and a half hour of sleep and your movie opened

up big this weekend and you didn't have riders block and da-da-da-da you're feeling good about stuff you got to get yourself a little workout and exercise guess what I didn't so Mr. Solid on your shoes you know bam and I got to get reminded of that sometimes too do you see yourself as more

servant or leader with the family my first response is to say leader But and my wife is the day to day hour to hour behind the scenes one-on-ones with the kids and me looking after anticipating our needs, having real talks about it, on the ground leader of that. she very much respects me as patriarch and hers matriarch and that understands and said like you go out you know what I mean you handle this and I remember she making a sacrifice yes would she absolutely say and I'm absolutely for the sacrifice because it gives me so much more she said that a hundred times it means it we still have to balance times where does our life and what comes to us in the outside world can come through the filter that through,

that comes through Matthew, the outside, you know what I mean? I'm out there and it comes back in through like it's all me. Now, I have to watch that and I have to catch that sometimes because I can find myself liking that. But I also have to catch it and go, you in the hand that freedom to be able to go and do pull that off unless this foundation was being handled and run by that woman right there and so even little things of reminding myself to go you know it's it's funny how even little small words can do so much just to use the royal we so simple and to mean it with humility but also in recognition that a lot was done and i after and i usually do realize sometimes i do forget but

I usually realize of how much around me that I've got built that allows me to go play offense and go, go deep and go out and then come back home and all of a sudden see if we get rewarded for that or not. And when we do get rewarded to go, hey, this is us. I went out there and did it, but this was, hey, this was us. You know, y'all came with me to location for three months, you know, and me getting to see you in the morning before I go to work and first thing when I get home from work and sit down and have dinner together and then hang out on a Saturday, allowed me to be present at my job every day. And if you weren't there and I'm FaceTiming you all the time and going, oh, it's not as good as being in person, I wouldn't have been able to do what I did as

well. Thank you for that. And they do it without much complaint and not without, you know. There's some more resistance now that they're getting older. Yeah. But actually, when we look back, it's been some of our best times to go on location, foreign location, rent a house, take the dogs. We all go there. We're not homeschool or plug them into school there where they are for that amount of time. And it's going to revolve around a job. They're going to put them to work on the set. Levi, this last set was in camera department for two and a half months before we got in front of the camera.

LeVita's worked in Wardrobe. So we try to get them around the set to get some jobs and stuff. And they have a great time. Now that kids are getting older, though, I'm going to find it tougher to be able to, if I do. if Camilla and I decide to, pull them, say if tomorrow, if I got a job in Rite, Quebec, it's going to be hard to pull three of them. Yeah, he was on the football team, there's on the dance team. He was got a little social thing going.

Soccer's coming up. It was easier earlier. But I did. I don't know if I've ever shared this story that you've heard, but I did ask before we had kids. Camilla's sort of before she pulled goalie to say, that's trying to have kids. She said, if you go, we go. And I remember having this wolf coyote in my head thinking, we're coming on the road with you. Yeah. And I'm

looking at it like going, in my head going like, and I'm solo, man. I'm artist, man. I go off my airstream. I'm me and my dog. I live in parks outside, man. That's how I roll. And as I'm saying this, I'm looking at it. I'm going like, speaks for itself. You dumb ass, you better say yes, ma'am right now. And I went, yes, ma'am. And so glad I did. Now, I talked to quite a few men in the business of Hollywood who had children, who had children while they worked. And I said, what'd you do when you went away? And they've all said, well, with the kids, it's either friends or dad.

Because these were all men, fathers. And they all said, I chose to let them have their friends. What's that mean? Meaning, stay home when I go to work. Stay with your friends in your circle. I'll go to work. See you in four months. Every one of them said, if I could do it again, I'd do it the opposite.

They all regretted it. Yeah. They said they fell out. They didn't have the relationship with their children anymore because of that. Yeah. And so we flipped it and said, coming with. And sometimes you've got to take them dragging a little bit. But once they're there, they're fine.

And hopefully it's helping them with adaptation and things like that. But that's been a big choice that we engineered that helps me and the whole family quite a bit. feel in order, so to speak, or as you said, somewhat solved. It helps to stay closer to the solution, at least. Okay, with that in mind, we mentioned the good man, nice guy, good man. But I'm interested in it in that you, in the rom-coms you did. Yeah. You, I like the way you put it.

It was like playing Saturday. Every character was a Saturday character, flip-flops, you know. Hi. hi thank you ben it's such a funny way to put it because it's like sad and because that's how it read you just come in like what's going on darling there's a mild problem yeah she was always supposed to be with me you got a mild solution what's his occupation who gives a fuck he's an archid i don't know fucking something it's just a put him in advertising yeah it's a prop guys let's take a break hand a little coffee nine ball do you so the the you do time to kill

you go from like off to on not very famous to incredibly famous when you look at the choices you made and then you end up just kind of in a rom-com we'll call it a ghetto for like a better term that you had to intentionally stop to get out of. Did you, do you wish you made different choices?

Obviously, everything's great. Right, right, right, right. But like some of the thing where you go, man, I should have fucking taken that. I wish I knew. Do you wish you'd been braver then? Or is it just like, the process had to be what it was? Look, that's a great question.

I'm going to try and go past if I can. Past a great answer that makes it sound like, oh, okay. Well, that's intellectually sound, but do you know that now and you did know it then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were being a good guy, basically. You kept playing good guys, kind of. I kept playing nice guys. Nice guys, sorry.

Another wrong with the nice guy, but look, and I don't, I don't, look, there's one film. There's one role I ever turned down that I regret in the entire history of my 54 films. L.A. Confidential. The guy Pierce part? Great movie. I think it was the guy Pierce Park. I think it was Curtis Hanson came to see me in Canton, Mississippi while I was working on time to kill. Now, mind you, I was working on a time to kill. In the middle of my first lead role, I mean, I was read something, but I was like, I don't know.

I wasn't, I was so enveloped in this other thing that I wasn't able to look at something. That would be a great thing for me to do later. I was in the middle of something. I was like, this is my whole world. Anyway, that I turned down, and that would be the one regret. because that was a, I'd really like that movie. I never stopped to have, I don't know if it's maybe just not how I think.

I never, I'm on to the next about what can be the next, next move. So I never regretted. And in my objective mind would have told me, how don't you be, you have no right to be as arrogant as to regret any fucking move you've made. So don't you even go there, selfish little prick if you do that. What's the next move? Onward or out.

Or maybe you seem to see, sit still and enjoy this for instance rom-com life had a great life man yeah he lived in the chateau marmont for 16 months apparently lay down and wrote a motorcycle and bought leather pants and had a key to the kitchen so no further question you know like how to keep literally had a key to the kit he was he was doing it right yeah and I gave myself that that time and also I had the beach house so I'm doing rom-com I'm on the beach every day. It's sunny California.

I'm out in my shirt off. It's looking like every time you open a magazine, there's McConaughey's shirtless on a beach again, living a frickin' life. I look that way because that's what was happening. That is what was happening. That's, that is what was happening. Yeah.

And wow, I did it. I got to that point where I could live there and live that life. Outstanding. I was still healthy. I wasn't screwing people over. I wasn't being mean to women. I wasn't doing. I wasn't.

I was still a good guy. But it was getting a bit revolutionary. It was going to circles. And the rom-coms would kind of be just like the last rom-com. It was just like the last one. It's all the same poster in my mind. We know what it is. You get your back to the middle.

Kane Hudson or somebody. Boy, chase the girl at the end, catch a credit roll. Yep. Saturday. Saturday. Flip flops. Yep. Don't go, you don't, you know.

Here, okay, but here's my question. There's somebody I read a long time ago, artworks in the following way. The depth from which it emanates in you is the depth to which it travels in other people. Right on. Did you not think you were capable of something deeper? Because you went to film school.

You went like, you know what I mean? No, I thought I thought I was. Now, did I need some affirmation at that time? Like, oh, do I still got it? Did I lose it? become just an entertainer. Am I just the nice guy, a nice handsome guy in the rom-coms.

And also, I remember catching myself going, before you start poo-pooing that, man, look in the fucking mirror. What's wrong with being an entertainer? What's, look at, look at the life you're living. It's fun. Dean Martin.

Don't, don't trip yourself run downhill just because it's enjoyable and it's light and it's easy. It's built. They're supposed to be lightweight. Now. Carrie Grant never lost any weight to plan. apart.

You know what I mean? He's just like, I'm just going to show him, be carry grant. Okay. Now, as I've seemed to have done over many times of my life, though, there comes a time where I start creating resistance in front of me to make myself sweat a little bit or make myself bleed or make something hard for myself, to go away to Peru or Africa. Those trips were a lot about in this time where I'm famous and my notoriety is. as being famous or a rom-com guy precede me.

Okay, and it's how it's the mirror of the reflection I'm getting back from everybody. I needed to go away to go, can I meet some strangers, spend 22 days with them, and I want to see what our goodbyes like. And goodbye 22 days later is tears from their face because they're saying goodbye to the man

whose name is David, I would have under, who they don't know what film, They've never seen a film. Don't know I'm famous. Don't even know what I do, never asked. But their tears of saying goodbye are based off the man they met 22 days ago and spent time with. Ah, I still got it. Life force.

Human life force is what you're talking about. Anonymous from all the fame and anything else outside of who the heck I was. Spirit to spirit. Yes, straight up. That's the math I also needed sometimes because you need to go away and go, let me cut the wheat from the chafe here, man. I'm not sure what's bullshit. what's real believing the really great stuff feels a lot better but how much of that is fluff and bullshit and then believing the negative stuff's not that fucking fun but oh sometimes they got a

good point you know so i remember grabbing all of my every ask my public said get me every negative review that's ever been ever gotten there's a thick folder and i took it away for a weekend nothing but the negative ones he had to get two sherpas to carry the Yeah. Negative. There was a lot of the knives were out from O'Connor Hay. He sat down with them for a weekend. And a lot of them, you know, I was like, ah, this cat wrote this before I got it.

They didn't like me. This thing was written before they ever saw my performance. Other ones was like, ooh, got a good point. Hmm, did rest of my laurels there. Ah, did kind of repeat the same thing again. And I kind of, okay, okay, okay. Anyway, to continue to answer the question of, of, you know, what that felt like. I had met Camilla at this time during the rom-coms.

I fall in love. I saw her move across the room that night. I was like, what is that? Bam, everything that I saw on that image turned out to be true upon closer inspection and getting to know her better. She now pregnant, the first child. Now, I've said it in the green lights. Was the only thing I ever knew I wanted to be?

whatever I think, I've always thought success is being a father. Yeah. I remember shaking those men's hand at Oak Forst Country Club parking lot. It had shades on. The son was behind him in my face. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Nice to do you, sir.

And I remember going, oh, all of these people that my dad's making me say sir to, the one common denominator is they're all fathers. And I went, oh, that's it. Oh, that's how you do it. That's success. So she's pregnant. So all of a sudden, man, my life's getting vital. I'm falling in love, not rom-com love, real love.

I'm loving more. I have more joy, more tears, more deep anger, more hate-filled rage of what I'm standing against, what I will stand for, what I won't. All of a sudden, life is about to expand. I'm going forward with someone more than just me. Now I'm looking to the future for the first time. No more one-way tickets. I got a partner and I got a dependence coming along the way.

Oh, here we go. Here we fucking go. get it on. That's drama. It can be absolutely hilarious, but that's drama. Drama, the ceiling in the basement of how do you feel about it? That's the question in the drama. That's the question in life. How do you feel about it? Show me. Action. That's what's great about a drama. And no, you can't, you can't hate that hard. You can't yell that loud. Or no, you can't be that happy. In a drama, no, it's like, how do you feel about it? In a rom-com, it's compressed. No, don't get that happy, row. And no, don't get that mad because I'll drop the anchor and never

make it back. We've got to keep this thing point in the bandwidth. Yep. Right. So my life is going, yeah. And my work's like, I kind of feel like I can do it tomorrow. My life is, I'm scared, man, in a good way. I'm fired up about where life's going. When it works, like, I don't do that tomorrow. It's safe. So I'm like, ah, I wish my work could challenge the vitality in my life. And I remember looking in the mirror going, ah, before you poo-poo that, be glad that's the order that it's in right now. now and not the other order. Yeah.

All right. So let's be thankful for that part. And I'm trying to, so I want to do dramas, trying to get them. Nobody's offering Hollywood. And you're turning down rom-coms up to $15 million. $14.5 million comes in. And I've said this before, but I do think that was an invisible bullet through Hollywood of the message that I was putting out. Because that was 15 months into my walkout and saying, I'm not doing any rom-com.

And you're like, I might not work again. And you got a baby at this point? I've got a baby at this point. We have Levi. He's born. And as much as that's anchoring me, it's still not filling up all my significance, which we were talking about earlier.

I'm not doing anything. I don't have a craft. I'm not building anything on my own. I don't have any art that I'm building. I got a son. I know at any given time, if I go spend time with him, that there's no better time to be spent. I know that's not Tom Foolery time,

but when I'm on my own, I'm going, and what am I doing? Yeah. What am I creating? Right now, I'm going to fucking come a stoner and make wind chimes. No, that's not going to get me off.

You know, the bottle over there is looking good, a little earlier in the day, man, you know, and all of a sudden, it starts slipping back. 4 p.m.,

you got to look in the mirror for a second, go, hang on a second. You know what I mean? I need to, where's my purpose? Yeah. What am I doing?

That amount of time goes by, I turned down that $14.5 million dollar offer. I think around that time, after saying no to all rom-coms, and not getting offered any of the other dramas I wanted. I think the shift to Hollywood sort of goes like, this fucker's not bluffing. He's up to something.

The turning down of the 14-5, I think, made me more attractive because it was an offensive move to say no to that. Yeah. It wasn't like I've just gone out and anyone come find me. I'm just waiting, whatever. I had a plan. And I think someone goes, he just turned down that for 14-5. Okay.

Which was like, and trust me, my brothers were on the side. of Hollywood. They're going, what's your major malfunctioner, bro? What are you fucking thinking? And I was like, uh-uh. Yeah. No. I, I, when I made this decision, it was true of my soul, and I'm going to stick to it. And, uh, I'm at 20 months of nothing. Ring. Hey, what about Lincoln lawyer? What about Killer Joe? I'm on Paperboy. What about mud? Yeah, you may, you make it, the way you said it's like, you became an interesting idea. I became a new, good idea, novel idea. Yeah. hadn't seen me in the theater in rom-com.

Yeah. Hadn't seen me shirtless on the beach. Why the fuck is he? Yeah. Where'd he go? Yeah. Long enough, gain enough anonymity. And again, not to rebrand, but to sort of unbranded.

I don't know what he's doing or where he is. That all of a sudden, you know, a big good idea for this killer and killer Joe or this drum? Yeah. What about? O'clock. Oh, that's interesting. All of a sudden became interesting. Two years before?

Not interesting. Were there people you were jealous of? Were you, were there, would you look at like Christian Bay and be like, fucking, I could have, were there, I mean, not to get. Good question. No, no, no, good question. I'm sure I did. Oh, I'm sure I did.

I was not 100% above being jealous at that time. Even though when I would get jealous, I would, too many cricket would go, there's nothing constructive about that that doesn't pay off. I can say on your own path. But I know I did. And I won't say names. Yeah.

But I did have some jealousy, yes. Was there anybody you could call for like solace or like, help me not take this offer were there people you call and they'd be like dude i've been there so there was you were just fucking on your head red camilla had support of her when we said as i'm going to make that choice to say no more rom-coms and she goes matthew that means like this may be a dry spell for who knows how long and she goes oh you got to be prepared we have to be prepared for the long haul of this be us being in a desert because we're going to do this, there is no going back.

And I was like, that's the deal. There is no going back. And so that question was never negotiated. It was clear. Nope. Nope. You know what's interesting reading the book was your prep for Wooderson in the book. He'd never really done.

You'd done student films. Yeah. You end up in Days Confused. But you seem to prep for Wooderson like somebody with training. Yep. And you're 19 or something. Did you have any training or this is just what your brain did? No, I had the instincts for it.

But I didn't know what I was doing. I kind of learned what the hell I was doing in reverse. I didn't get with someone who knew acting and was my great mentor, Penny Allen, who since moved on. 17 years, we worked together. And I didn't know what it was I was doing until I started work with her in 1980. I'm sorry, 1998. So you, and then you look back because can you tell the like prep for what a sudden, like you're about to you go there for a costume thing and link ladders like what are you

get in this scene yeah which is a good that's a good sign generally good's real good sign um look there was as a that image of my through my 11 year old eyes of my 17 year old brother in the smoking section leaning against a wall in the shadow with a lazy finger cigarette when my mom and i were supposed to pick him up because it's car broke down and I went there's and as I didn't say his full name because I didn't want to say his name because he would have got in trouble for smoking and as the car pulled away and he was already 100 feet 100 yards away and then slowly 150 200 as he went further into a long lens that image I was like that's the coolest fucking that's my big brother that's the coolest fuck I've ever seen

so Wooderson was who my thought my brother was at 11 under smoke in the smoking section while he was 17th. So that image, not already, when I say lazy finger, you're already, shoulders do one thing. Who's that guy? Is that guy leading with his head, heart, or cock? He's leading with his, he's leading, you know, waist forward, man. He's like, and then Linkletter writes this great line. You know, that's what I love about those high school girls, man. I get older. They stay the same age. Now I'm all of a sudden, I'm going, what if that's not an attitude? What if that is this guy's credo, man? What if this guy believes that? That's his, religion, more than this

politics. Well, it's not a cute line, which then leads to, in that scene, I think Wooderson has stepped forward, like, to the curb and kind of set it to the universe. You know, like No, man. No, man, I'll tell you. That's what I love about these high school girls, man.

I get older. They stay the same age. Yeah. And not like a something to make someone laugh or not something to snye or sneer. Like, that's That's the way I see it, man. So you get those. I've talked about launch pad lines.

You get certain ones. And if you understand them and go, you understand that line? You know who believes that line? If they believe that, you know what they're buying in 7-Eleven. You know what they got in their fridge when they get home.

You know what they're eating, who they're hanging out with. You can tell how they walk, how they listen, how they see, where they're going, how they pay. It tells you so much. I don't think most people can do that, though, at 19.

That's the difference is like where you go, yeah, you're supposed to do this. Like, you know what I mean? Like I think you were able to just like do it. Well, here's another great thing that I learned. And I think this has continued with me is the how much music helps. Because even now, all my stuff is you were talking about voice or something earlier, but all the poems, they're musical. That's where the poems, the prayers are the poem, but they're musical.

If they can rhyme and have a little rhythm to it, oh, we're digesting them easier. I can kind of, I can dance to that. good for me. Oh, the candy is broccoli? Oh, oh, we can sell Sunday morning like a Saturday night. Oh, let's do this. Um, music. Link Ladder, you know what Link Letter's direction was? He gave all the cast members a cassette tape that he had recorded. He goes, I have a listen. I think this is what your character might be listening to. For that to be your homework, 19 years old in the summer, Austin, Texas, New Bronsville's floating the river, coming back, party in the pool halls. And what's my home?

homework, man, I'm going to put in this bad ass to set, some new string a hole and hanging out at night, people are playing their tapes on this 70s rock is great. And you're listening to it and it's putting you in a space. It's not telling you what to do. It's putting you in a space and it's got a rhythm to it. Do you feel like your part of your duty is to help filmmakers and writers? I'll take it from here kind of thing. Like, because you're, like I said, you're so charismatic. You're so winning. You're just like, it's, I want to, like, anyway, it's, tell me something.

So I'm just curious, do you, not like it's like sit down, I'll go. I'll take it from here. Us good looking people take it. But like, your real, your skill set is, is like movie star. Like, so I'm wondering, do you, do you look, do you feel like, oh, I, I, I want to help Rickling later. I want to help John Grisham

or Jill Shoemaker or... No. No, I go in with so much reverence. I have so much reverence for directors. Oh, I don't say it

in a, in a distant way. But I mean, I don't... Do I think that I, that I help a filmmaker director be a better director? Yeah. When I'm on the set, I do.

Because I care about the whole story. And if we're set and agree on sort of tone or measure of excellence or truth, I'll have ideas that I think sometimes they go, oh, yeah, didn't think of that. It may not have anything to do with me. And I'm throwing them out. And everything, when you're on a set, you throw things out.

It's all for free. One of the biggest compliments is being stolen from on set. I had a good idea. Someone to steal it. It's actually a great compliment. If it can help the scene, if it can help the story, take it, run with it. It's not, no one's adding up. And if someone's got the hot hand with great ideas, keep feeding them.

Get 19 in a row, get 20 in a row. Get 30 in a row. Wherever they're coming, go with it, man. So my job, I never feel like, oh, I'm the movie star on set. Guys, this is how it goes. I do want to empower that director, especially if it's say maybe an independent director. I want to empower other actors as well. But my job, the way I see it is Nick Pizzolato, who lives here in town, who a really good friend of mine.

He wrote True Detective. And, you know, Rusting Cole. Nothing is ever over. I remember our first night meeting in New Orleans where we were shooting a few weeks before shooting. And I'm like, you know, I know this is your guy on paper. He's mine now. He's mine. And we drew blood over it that night.

It was a great night. Furniture was broken. It was great. Great wrestling match. Intellectually? Physically. Wow. It's like, fuck off.

Like, what's your angle? What's your angle? His angle is no. No, no, he's mine. I was like, now he's not. Not anymore. Meaning what? Meaning I will take ownership.

No, I'm laying, no, no, no, it's about, I'm about to be the bloodline. You put the word on it. Okay, my job, what I do is now to own this son of the bitch. And he has to become mine and it will be my bloodline. I will be it. I'm taking it. Now, he was like, what the hell? Bullshit he's my.

But that's exactly what you want. A creator wants an actor to take it without permission, own it, and let it become a bloodline. Now, does that mean I didn't take direction? No, it didn't mean it didn't take, it means I absolutely took direction. I mean, I would still go to him, Nick, what's the core meaning of the, I mean the middle of on camera? You stop and go, the core meaning of this, what does this mean? He dropped by, hand me a note. Yes, that's it.

But the actor's job is to take, when it's time, between action and cut, we've gone from literary to live action. we've gone from the word on the page to let's see life let this emanate move you're the bloodline now and as much as any actor says oh we go off and learn about become that character that's half the voyage that's only halfway there because you get there and then you come back and it's that inside of you every actor's doing it personally so when it when we do it well it's a massively personal experience are we playing to who we are no but we're all playing a part of ourselves and it's just going out there than making the second journey back to make it our own and that's when we get the ownership and that's when you see a great performance

which you seem like that's who they are that the person was not acting why should i live in history huh that's when we pull it off the best was your prep for that different than anything else you've done i'm talking about the depth the depth from what something emanates so to understand Rustin Cole's point of view, to understand who he was, to see his realism. And this was the only lines I changed out of that entire. I said, look, I'd consider myself a realist, all right, but in philosophical terms, on what's called a pessimist. I'd stuck to Nick's script so close because it was such hot shit the writing.

Okay, what's that mean? It means I'm bad at parties. But to understand the philosophies and get deeper to understand, so then I wouldn't have to act them or sell them or mainly just tell them not even tell them just to actually be having a monologue with the universe and guess what you happen to hear it marty heart and it's over there you like the audience are going what the fuck does that mean shut the fuck up you know what i mean and that was so it was just understanding it was a character that had such a great monologue and self-identity even though you go i wouldn't want to be in that guy's head he was so secure with who he

was and unrestful with who he was, that I just, it was working on understanding the core, core mess, the core linear meaning. And was it, you'd ask Nick what the fuck says me and he'd give you a book, he'd give you a, or he'd send me, you know, a couple of paragraphs, or he'd write himself or by the time we got to set, it'd just be a note, quick, a little small note. Like, ah, got it.

Because we were already, we had worked enough together on that to get to where we had a shorthand at the end did he was he like you're right it's it's yours now did you say that dick i think you might have i like to think he did if you didn't you still got time we'll see i don't know hello it is where you will go back and forth to somebody and be like me that's more me than you you know um but to get there and to have that ownership that's what my goal is with every role i don't get there though that we roll especially not i don't get there before we start sometimes i find it two weeks in sometimes i find it two months in sometimes i don't i get out of it and i'm like dude i just hope i connected the dots i never felt like i was

completely seeing that character from the inside out sometimes i'll see the work and go oh you were and you didn't know it sometimes i'll see the work and go mm not quite got a triple you didn't get a home run now what do you think a movie star is and i what's a movie star yeah what's a movie star versus a movie actor. A friend of mine said, Daniel Kalulia from Get Out, amazing actor, said movie stars

radiate goodness. Radiate goodness. And I think he's right. I think in terms of like, in terms of definition, I think that's maybe the best one I've ever heard. I just wonder about the word goodness. Because when we get into,

and it may be part of what better explains, a movie star. I've always been in learned from that mentor, my Penny Allen, it ain't about right and wrong. on good or bad, throw your morality out the fricking window or leave it in the other room. It's about true or false. Stick with that.

Now, that I think is a mathematical equation to go through for work on those basis, true or false, for what can lead to some really good acting and sincere acting that may even make you go, geez, is this a biography? Is this a documentary? That's you. No one's acting, which I, for me, is what I think of the best acting is where you can go, that that's who they are oh my god is this based on a true story no it's not oh my gosh well wow that's my favorite acting goodness is there an emanation or stardom or stardom look kevin nash

great wrestler w w wkane came to me and said on magic mic he goes you know mcana hay goes some stars come in and suck all the light out of the room and some stars put more light out thank you for putting more light out that was a character dallas in magic Mike. I don't know if you've seen it, but he was a guy who emanated. He was a big, bigger than life guy. He emanated out, sometimes evil, but he emanated. He was a big personality. So I don't know how much that would do with the role. They have, um, one, it's an omnipresence about him. It is a, the larger than life in a certain way. Um, they do have a charisma. I believe that, you know, Paul Newman. Right? Movie star. My favorite movie is, is a HUD. You know what his least favorite movie ever made? HUD. Because he was a prick and he couldn't stand that people loved him in the movie. You're a good cook. You're a good

laundress. What else you're good at? Oh, that's funny. And he was like, what? Yeah. This guy's despicable. Dude, you gave me that grin twice, man. And those blue eyes, I love you for it. Even though you were a bastard. I loved him for it. I went and met him and I was like, that's my favorite movie. I was like, yeah, dude. It was like, even though you were a bastard, the fact that

I had coveted and I was jealous that someone could be so individual, that someone could do the shit you did and still sleep well at night, that someone could be that despicable and still go through life as that much of an individual to not care about anyone the rest of the world. I don't want to be that guy, but boy, I sit over here and applaud that and go, Bravo you. He was like, huh, shit, I didn't like that. I don't know.

I pissed me off that everyone did like it. When you take parts now, do you consider all the other shit you played or it's it's meaning when you when they cut to you when you enter however you're introduced yeah how's it going man fuck the clients think about like is this different than what i played before am i bringing the guy from interstellar and this guy and that guy and like do you consider it no in choosing a part I recently turned something down and I was like

I understand why you're coming to me of this I understand why I would be right for this I understand why I'm the guy for this but it's too much rehashing something I just did in a character with Free State of Jones was the movie that I kept going

it's so much in that lane that I already covered and it doesn't feel original enough to go oh I can stay in that general lane but I can find something different that can turn me on until I was a reason I turned it down. But when I'm creating a roll, I never think back about what, what did I do? If anything, I'll, Camilla will remind me, sometimes you go, you have a thing you do that you may not know it, but you kind of, it's your go-to.

Do you want to challenge, she'll ask me, do you want to challenge thinking that maybe, I'm not saying you shouldn't, but does this character have a different reaction to that? you know one thing here's one thing i always do this coming upon a crisis coming upon pain or the unexpected that's a death or something no no no no no no i think i've done that probably five six maybe more times yep yep you sure have you've just heard me and you've heard that in movies haven't you yep yeah and i guess it's a musical wind-down up to get me to a place but yes you know and i was like oh you do no no no no no no put an extra that page or go is there another another way that's true you know to have that same feeling but not

be not verbiate or be verbose in that exact way um you know but i don't go back and go oh i've done this that'd be probably the only the only time i've ever done that with with that line um and probably still said it probably still did it in the scene yeah said fuck it you said oh at the beginning you changed it completely no no no no whatever and it's at the same meter you're doing the same meter every time again what if i'd say the same thing make it a different meter no no no okay um but i don't go back and go oh you did this yeah don't do that again if i get to know the character enough it's gonna i'm telling the truth through the pov can you do the thing where you'll because I've heard of actors going,

I'll take the part, but I need so-and-so to do a rewrite and give me a couple monologues. You ever done that? No. You're aware of it, though? Or the guy, I need Tony Gilroy. I'm aware.

I'm aware. It's the thing movie stars do where they can go, I'm going to need a little rewrite, and then that character ends up with a nice, juicy monologue in the third act. I could, but it's just not my approach to play that movie star card. that I actually have in my deck.

Mm-hmm. And maybe, shoot, maybe I should stand on ceremony a little more sometimes. I could look back and go, hey, you kind of, you had a role. You kind of faded into the background there. Did you, you know what I mean? Should you have stood up for going, no, I need something that has me stand on ceremony and really identify my character. That's that kind of role.

I don't, I just wasn't taught to do that that way that I'm, you know, and what's Morgan Freeman say? A movie star is one thing, but an actor is a part of a story. It wants to play that part. There's some truth to that. And I've dabbled, I mean, I have, you know, I've dabbled in some of the movie star stuff,

but I also really have a reverence for what the role is and what the actor is, and sometimes where not to, I know this, where not to be is just as important as where you are. I learned that from days of confused. years after watching that film if you look at the ending again that was a reshoot

I had just shot for three weeks in my first film they're paying me 325 telling me I'm good today telling me I'm good at it I'm like this is great man I'll be in whatever scenes I can be in at the end of that movie

we're sitting around the football field about to go get Aerosmith tickets in my car I'm talking with the guys and the gals and everything and I said all right man slowed up I'm getting my third win let's get on the road I remember correctly I leave the group go get in my

car. I'm going to buggy on out of here. Hey, let's do it. So that's that, huh? And they continue a scene. And I remember the scene. I walked out and I was like, oh, they're still talking.

Maybe I'll walk back and join the scene. Wooderson would never reenter. He would have sat in his car, rolled up a dude, put on some tunes, and let taking his time, let everyone take as much time as they wanted to get in his car. He would have never reversed or two-stepped. No one else may notice that, but I'd know it. I was like, ah, it's important in where you're not. as to where you are.

Well, it's like that would have been good for Matthew and not the character. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. But definitely not Wooderson. Yeah. Definitely, he doesn't care where he's not.

But the brand. Yeah. Matthew, the brand. Like, that's the thing where guys will say, do a rewrite on this because it's better for their brand overall. Here's my main thing that I always look for a rewrite on where it usually needs it. Most scripts, if they need help, they need help from Act 2 to Act 3. that's when you act in to act one to act two is where you the conflict is introduced the end of act two to end act three is where there's a resolution and now in act three we've got to land the plane what happens in many many scripts even the rom-coms they'll out of a convenience give the lead character make them have them do something that is out of left fucking field like why did he do that yeah that'll be a screw up that'll lead to oh well now we can solve and land the plane

And I'm always like, don't put that on my ass, man. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. That's a convenience for you as a writer because you didn't know how to land this plane. You want to have someone else screw up to make the land this plane? Don't put it in me because that's bullshit. And while it may help finish this movie, people will be looking going to my character or to me going, what the fuck you do that for?

That was stupid. That made no sense. And I'm going, uh-uh, don't put that on me. I'm not going to help your convenient. Don't give me a convenient dialogue. or screw up that is like that is so out of character for who my man is so you can land your plane so let's get in here and figure it out i'll try and help us figure it out but i ain't doing it great you mentioned you could play the movie start card more often right do you find it it's a little hard

people's standards for you are lower and do you find that you have to have a keep your own standards for your own behavior people standards for me for you just personally it's like people are just excited to meet you. They're excited that you came to the part. It doesn't matter they three hours late. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How did you, how did you figure that out? Well, all I embarrassed the shit out of myself once

and swear I'd never do it again. It was a film that I haven't watched yet, Scorpion Spring, and I got called in for a, for a role, got offered the part. Not even enough to read for it. And I had been in a time where I was not getting the roles. I was getting second, third, fourth

call back, but not getting the role. I'm about a year and a half. I was just getting close. And I was just learning and kind of what acting was and I was getting heady. You know, when you learn something you got the instincts for, there's a bridge where you kind of get too heady about it and you think too much and you're not, it's not down in your, it's not in your body. Yep. And I was being conservative in these, in these read-throughs and have that moment aware, there's the time to go and I'd pull back. So I was doing just good enough connecting the dots and scenes, but not getting in it, not getting the role. I get offered this control. Drug lowered south of the border, Texas, Mexico border, middle level drug guy.

Coyotes are coming over with his cocaine. The scene is he'll hold them up, steal the cocaine, shoot him, kill him, and come on back. Great. That's all I want to know. I said, I'm not even going to read the script. I'm going back to my days and confuse years, man, where all I needed was the launch pad line, man. And then just press record, man, and I'll just be the guy, do what he would do so i said not to read the script said not even to read the scene i just got the log line of the scene i show up the day at work i'm on my mark i'm dressed up got my leather coat hair slick back kind of grimy you know typical kind of mid-level drug guy and i right before we're about to go action i evidently got a little nervous with my plan because my plan was just do what you do

what i would do and i said can i see the sides for a second a d comes back and decides and i open these sides up. And, uh, there's page one. And I flipped that and there's page two. Flip that. There's page three. I flip that. There's page four. And it's a fucking monologue by my guy in Spanish. And I got a little drip of sweat starts like a nightmare. It's like a nightmare. And I go, I remember going, can I get 12 minutes? And I remember in my mind, 12 minutes from in my mind was not enough time to inconvenience the crew, but enough time to possibly learn a four page monologue in Spanish because, hey, I did go to majority. for two weeks in the sophomore year.

Might not know. Well, I walk away. I look at this shit. I come back in 12 minutes. It was not enough time. It did not inconvenience a crew, but it was not enough time to learn to the end mile long in Spanish. And I did the scene and I didn't act like I didn't know or anything.

I spoke in Spanglish. They were like, you want to do that in full Spanish? And I gave some reason like, no, that's not how I want to do it. The character would never do that. Yeah. Bullshit, bullshit. End of day. I get in the car clean up.

And I remember pulling over the side of the road and bawling and beating the shit out of my steering and we'll go on. I never want to feel that again. You did not prepare. You had some bright bullshit idea. Like, I don't have to look at what it is. I'll just be my man. Great. You keep that. I'll be my man, but you've got to do the preparation so you can go call the audible in the game, man. You'll just show up, wing it. And from that day, I've always been a preparer. I like to be on time. I want more time at the end of the day. If I'm two hours late, I'm looking at that is possibly two hours later in the day that I don't have time to make some magic happy.

I literally say that all that. I'm like, if you're late, I get three less takes with him. Is it? That math adds up. Talk about solvent. Solvent order. Yeah.

That's part of it right there. And so I show up and I go about my day. I'm on time. I'm there for other actors. I know my shit. And that is my way. being a movie star how about personally okay meaning people's personal standards for you some get higher some get higher yeah yeah some people like they're a little mad you're missing they hold you

and some are like any scrap I'll take it and then you have to decide I have to try to remember what was it like before how was that okay early on it was a bit awkward like when I first got famous in the years after time to kill and the years of the rom-coms even there was an amount of i love to use caviar and champagne coming my way that i was like this is bullshit i don't deserve it i don't want it it's mendacious it's i'm gonna fuck something up just to sober up this situation to level me because this is just too much. I didn't feel like I could handle it. Didn't feel like I deserved it. Didn't feel like I'd earned it. Didn't know what it was there. Didn't even know if I even liked caviar or champagne or not. You know what I mean?

So I was a little destructive, not overly destructive. Never got into drugs and never got into harming people or anything like that. But I tripped myself running down hill quite a few times and bloodied my own nose in places where it was like, you don't have to make it that hard. later on and now and for the past and say since the you know for the past 15 16 years probably around the time met who's now my wife that probably helped um um not like she keeps you in order but it's just keeps me in order just you know good woman man helps you believe more in who you know you are you know and my my own measure For me, I believe is higher than anyone else's.

I hold myself to a standard where I'm seeing things that may be false that no one else is seeing. I'm, I'll notice things like I'm saying. I'm doing, I'm going back doing, doing, looking at looking at the engineering of when I raised my voice, what happened that I had to even raise my voice? So my threshold's pretty quick for going, mm-mm, that's not up there. Sometimes, do over-micromanage that? Probably. Missed the forest for the tree sometimes, sure. But I know if I'm going to do the math that my pursuit of that a perfection

or my pursuit of an excellence of which I always come up short on got me a lot further and I performed better or more truly because I was going for that. It's a little, the tongue and cheek way of saying is what I do in this poems and prayers. Rather go for an A and make a C, than shoot for C and make an F. I'm always shooting for the A plus. Yeah. The challenge is when reality comes in under that, which it usually always does, how quickly can I sober up and go, ah, well, still, you wouldn't have got that high

if you would have been shooting for that much. And I call it oversee oversight. I try to oversee myself, try to oversee others. I try to oversee every film I'm part of. I've said this many times, and I do not mean this. as a put down at all. It's a major compliment. I've never done one film or played one role that lived up to my expectation.

And those ones, I'm not saying I could have done a mini better, directed them any better, or someone else could have played the role better. But it was never omnipresent, mystical, magic, life force. This changes the way the fulcrums of the universe work. it was never divine even the even true detective even Dallas buyers even the even the ones that were you could make a case they were yeah I I've I've see I already see I've see spots in each one of those where I go your performance yeah is there a mistake that's consistent it's just like you just wouldn't you weren't in there um it usually happened on a Monday

And somewhere on that weekend, I either over-leveraged or got in my complacency, let myself get out of my routine and had a small percentage of the haze creeping on the dream that wasn't out of my system by Monday. And that may be something I did that I'm regretting. that may be something I said that may be an extra drink that may be sitting down Sunday

to go over my week's work two hours later than I usually do somewhere I jumped out of the absolute rote mechanical militant you gave yourself the benefit of the doubt yeah can't do it no you've got to stay by the principal

hey do I look like I smell good like do you know what I mean like when you look me to go, I bet Neil smells good. I kind of do, but it's not, I'm not like a Colon guy. I'm just a solid deodorant guy and then maybe I'll, I'll use a decent shampoo or hair cleaning product that will give it a little extra scent. It's falls here and they want me to say a bunch of out for the fall and like how I'm out hunting and I'm playing and I'm, I'm in the bluff and I'm rod and my horse. I'm not. I'm in New York and L.A. I'm a coastal elite. Wouldn't be likable unless you like my opinion. I get that. But I, I don't. But I, I,

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I don't even know which one that's going to be in, but I bet it's good. And I bet we cut away right just at the scintillating time. And now we're going back. I want to talk about God. Because you mentioned a church earlier, and then you mentioned in the book that you had a condomblee minister from Africa come to your wedding. Yeah. What's the difference? Do you see a difference in any? I mean, I'm kind of in mind where I'm like, it's all the same God. Like, the fact that we're arguing over who and

what land is silly to me. Where are you with this? I believe it's the same God. If there's a God, there's many different. A pastor puts it, there's many different trains to the same thing. station. I am not in any way ready to, not more than that, I'm not ready to. I think, I believe it's false. When our religions, they're great until they become, they start excluding. You know, I'm not ready to say, okay. So you're born again Christian. I'm with you if all of Africa is going to die because they're Muslim. They don't have a chance to get where we're going. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not buying that. I'm not going to purchase that. Even before I went and spent time and have wonderful Muslim friends, I, you know, I got no problem with Ten Commandments being in school.

But why not just make a prayer time and whatever your religion is, if you want to bow to a law, you can do it in that time as well. Yeah. I don't think anyone has a problem with Ten Commandments. I think they've got a problem with the author because that's been exclusionary. And we've made it a business and along the way of bastardized religions to cause wars and we fight and lie and cheat and steal and they make money for it. and there's crooks that are selling it in God's name, and there's a lot of reasons to go, like that. I wish, I hope we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater and say, so therefore that's why religion sucks for I'm not religious. I, by hunch, is that so most of these people that say,

oh, I'm just spiritual, are actually religious, just don't want to go that far to say it or believe it. I like to bring this up, which is because I'm a prescriptionist with this, and I do believe it's valuable to go back and go, look at the origin of words and meanings before we just take them on to be how we've defined them. Religion comes from the Latin root, re laigare. LaGare means to bind together.

Re means again. Well, every spiritual person that I'm talking to, that's what they're talking about. Unity. It's buying together here. That's the definition of religion. We've taken it. Mankind's taken it and warped it and bent it

and made it into things that I don't believe that God is proud of it all. I don't believe Jesus is proud of it. I don't believe Muhammad's proud of it. in post-haste, and wherever they are. I don't believe they are. So that's been us doing that. So let's not throw it out because we bastardized it.

I have a, I'm really working and playing and trying to merge, as you see in this book, that the candy is the broccoli. It's not just make the broccoli the good stuff and I taste like candy. The broccoli is, what's good for us, it is the candy. I have a poem in here about heaven or not, you know, and how someone who's in misery, they don't have the privilege to project into the future and say, oh, well, I'll make decisions, sacrifice now,

so I can get them in the future. What are you talking about? I'm trying to pay my damn rent and put food on the table tonight. You talk to me about that luxury you got of making choices to sacrifice for later on. Well, good for you. People in misery, you don't have that. But heaven or not,

if we live like there is, have an accordion chase of divinity in ourselves and try to be more godlike that's the best way to get out of misery while we're here that i know of so if you want to get unstuck whether there's a heaven or not there's a lot we can get from religion to go it can get me unstuck the best formula to get unstuck now here so if there's an afterlife which i hope there is i don't know if there is. But I'm talking about how poems in prayers, which are ideals that may not be real, are what can help us here in the living, practical life, mortal one that we're in right now. So it's not all just for, well, if I do it, then I got the best chance. Then. Yeah. It's not self-interest. Or it's not.

It is, but it can serve you in this life, heaven or not. Yeah. You had an interesting term. a phrase which was a egotistical utilitarian what do you what does that so i wrote that i wrote a paper on that in college egotistic uterine i was like that's that's that's that's the oversole like nietzsche's oversaw that's superman where what you do for self the most selfish belief act behavior you can have there's a place with that decision and that action and that choice is actually what's the best for the utilitarian for the most amount of people and that's why i'm trying to change the definition of selfishness I think true selfishness is not doing something for yourself right now that harms your neighbor. Because now they're letting the robbers get in your house and you're out of town.

What's more selfish? Doing the choice is good for you and also good for your neighbors. Now when you leave town, they're watching over and they're calling the police when they got rid of the robbers pull up. I think the second choice is a lot more selfish. Things that we want to do for our future. It's more selfish to spend it all now and just run up the budget and tear up the climate and everything so our kids. kids are fucked later? I don't know. Is that more selfish? Is there more selfish to do what we can now? It's going to have ours. So our kids' future have a better chance to have a better

future. I would say, if you've got children, you'd be saying the second choice is a more selfish choice. Yeah. So that's the egotistical utilitarian. I'm not sure, you know, this talk about kill the ego. I'm not, where do, we have to have judgment. And I know there's a difference. We have to have identity to have judgment. Or you don't have judgment. Or you don't have judgment. If you don't have any, you don't have, I didn't if you don't have judgment. Yeah. Right? So I wish people were more self-involved or more involved with themselves.

So I don't take you back on the term. Well, there might be more that calculation in terms of like behavior and what is it, what, what, what am I actually doing here? Not just like, I'm hungry. I want to, it's just like, what's the. Well, give it a, give your choice a little context of what is going for yourself, what choice, we talked about them earlier in the conversation, what choice right now is going to tee me up for more freedom, pleasure, harmony tomorrow. Yeah. There are choices and maybe small sacrifice to make for, and tomorrow's going to be a breeze, because I'll make, or I got the best

chance for it to be a more of a breeze and more self-satisfying and more harmonic with those I love if I make this choice now, even though I'm making a small sacrifice. What's the bigger, what's better ROI? What's the more selfish choice? If we have any projection, what one thing we always want to teach your kids delayed gratification, man. We're still got to learn that as adults more than I keep learning myself and everybody. We're still got to learn that. Project a little further than tonight. Kids don't understand that concept.

We try to teach them that. But adults, we're not doing that. And there's a place where the best choice for you now can pay you back the most later. You know, I got that form in there, forgive me, father, for I know what I do. not the I don't know what I do The I know I did it And I did it a fucking end Yeah

And I'm a repeat offender Yeah So I don't know I got a little trouble Believing that I can just go Every Sunday and go Forgive me for my sense Okay we're clear

Cool I'm gonna go back and do it again I got a little trouble with that I'm gonna nah no no man We're supposed God wants our hands on the wheel Man Fate and free will

We got we want When I had my Agnostic years Where I went off and it's me It's on me And came back to God years later? I heard God clapping going,

thank you for the courage to think you could do it yourself. I need more like you with hands on the wheel, man. I got a lot of people out there just relying on fate. Inchila, hey. No, thank you. I need more sweat equity for you guys. You know what I mean? And I think that's the combination that those two, again,

are not contradicting. Self-reliance in faith. Boom, we're told those go right in the face of each other in ways they can. I don't think ultimately they're supposed to. McConaughey, why you? Why me? You know, when everybody says, you know, why is this happening to me?

Why is this bad thing happening to me? Why is this, why is all this seeming good stuff happening to you? Have you thought about it? Have you, have you? I know you have. Have I tried to. try to put some science of satisfaction yeah have i tried to write down make mantras of pin franklin my way to go and there's a way to engineer this too

yep but i'll tell you this and writing green lights i thought that 90% of my successes were engineered by you until i wrote it and went back and read it and i was like Like, no, but it's about 15%. The other 85, what no science to them. That's apparent. They were mystical. They were, you were in the right place, right time. You, yeah, took an opportunity,

but you ran into her to be in that spot to meet her, to do this thing. You took that chance when you were in that room at that moment and that window of opportunity shut right after you took it. Ooh, glad you got in there when you did. but did I make choices there? A lot of them were unchosen to get to that position. So I think the two are interlaced.

I think they play with each other and the same we were talking about self-reliance and faith or free will and faith. I don't know, I don't know though. I don't have, I don't leave conversations like this and go get in my car on my own and become someone different. I don't go away and think, I've never, I do not think ugly of people.

I never have. I don't, I can disagree. I can go, you're an active person's an asshole. But I don't think, I just never have thought ugly. I don't wish ill will on people. I don't. Do I believe some people need harsh consequences? Yeah, do I believe some people are beyond rehabilitation?

Yes. But gosh, dog, man. I don't know. I say to these people that don't believe in rehab. I'm like, you got a pet? Like, yeah, where'd you get them? We got them at the pound. You believe in rehab then, man?

You know what I mean? You ever moved in a house that you didn't build and it turned out to be a home? Yeah, well, then you believe in rehab. You rehabbed it. You can do it. And we don't need to quit believing in rehab. I think the one thing we've got to make sure

is that the person, when it comes to people, the first thing someone does when you forgive them, if they come to you and go, I'm sorry, I did you wrong. you know, did you wrong. And if you go, Matthew, I forgive you. First order of business is for me to change whatever behavior I got to change to not have to come say I'm sorry again.

I got to take that on me as the offender. You gave me that freedom. But if I come back and do it to you again, maybe you can forgive me, but man, don't trust me. I wish more of us, more times would understand that, hey, it's my order of business. If I want to be able to be forgiven, to forgive, but also to have someone go, Well, now it's not even money. I know I've got to watch myself. I don't have to come to you, apologize again for the same damn thing.

Again, that forgive me, Father, for I know what I do. It's like, come on, man. Break a sweat. It's going to take some effort. And I think that most of us probably pull the parachute a little too quickly. I think most of us turn away from the sun because somebody tells us that we're close enough that the wax is melting on our wings when actually it's 55 degrees, bro. You still got your beanie on.

Wax ain't close to Melton. Keep flying. Don't choke now. What are you getting nervous for? We're not even the Lord just tipping into the 11th percent. We've got a long way to go, man. Raise the roof. And in doing so, truthfully, is not becoming more only self-serving

at the exclusion of everyone else. It's not disregarding what you're neighbor. No, it's having the confidence to be able to respect oneself to respect someone else even more. to appreciate what one can do so you can be thankful for what somebody else does more. That's true selfishness, I believe. Do you think more people

could have a life as rewarding as yours if they... I feel like you're trying to model something for people. I'm trying to model. I'm trying... I mean, I'm... Look, part of what I'm doing talking to you,

part of the reason why I wrote this book is this is a spiritual therapy for me. I doubt was creeping in on me, man. Too much for my comfort. Started to get a little cynical, objectifying people, looking down my nose at them. Recently? Yeah, a couple years.

I looked around and turned on the TV with us and the news, watch what leaders are doing, and I'm going, oh, there's, there you know, there's reason. Yeah. That's why I said, fuck, I'm not going to quit. I'm going to quit looking at the evidence. Let me flip the script and try to look up higher and believe, don't, you know,

don't get so old that you forget, believe in those. ideals that you know where they're out there, whether you can achieve them or not still chase them. I'm not going to get them. No one of them is going to become God. But boy, that's part of the proclivity to imitate as part of what worship and prayer and belief is about. And we all got it in. We all got the sacred in us. We all got it. What are we? Full of every day. Our head, head, head, head, head, head, man, we got weeds. It ain't no auto bond between our heads and our heart. It's a rocky road and it's one way and it's covered in rocks and potholes and weeds. I'm saying we've got to tend that garden.

I'm not saying everyone's got to have, let's just have a little two-factor authentication here between the old rhythm here that's in the heart and the rhyme that's in the heart and the reason that's in the head. Instead of just the reason and just the logic at whatever consequence, no matter who it screws over.

No, does it matter how you do it? Damn right, it matters how you do it. And how many more jackpots are you given out to the people who win even if they lied, cheat, and still to get there? I'm not ready to go. That's just the way it is. I hope the world's not ready to go, well, it's just the way it is. And that's part of what got me putting the words down,

because I started saying that to myself. Well, maybe that's just the way it is, but kind of I. Yeah. And then I woke up in the middle and I'm not going bullshit. First scared of that and then pissed at it. And so, and I don't know why, you know, why me and has my life. I don't know. Has it been blessed, do I have?

Have I helped build some blessings in my life? Yeah. Have I been giving gifts that I don't even know I've been given. that people reached out and helped me out that I don't even know their name and know if they did. Yep. You also have a lot of people that a no did. I saw it that I could,

I could be a better friend to and thank them for. I also, I don't, I, I'm not looking forward to it, but I'm not afraid of dying. I feel like, you know, my belief is that that's a comma. Yeah. Not a period. I don't know. A belief is that.

And if there's not, I know I'm not ever going to regret living away, believe in that it was possible. Because it's helped me here. You want to read, give me a little something? Yeah, man. like the um which what do you like page 19 from more love affair page 19 to the end of 20 oh talking about prayer yeah yeah more love affair than mandate prayer is devotion more than responsibility devoid of false idols of our superstitions prayer is a moral yearning to our own elevated conscience the pattern and practice of prayer starts as a

secret, then becomes a conscious light on the path that shows us the way to becoming our more competent and true selves. Personally, I begin my prayers with gratitude. I try to smile upon my blessings, try to humble my selfish desires. I try to remember that in God's economy, service serves me. I pray for guidance to do all that I can as a husband and a father for the mental, physical, and spiritual health of my family. And then I take a scroll. down the rolodecks of my memories lane, and I take inventory of all those I love and care for in my life, until I see them with my mind's eye at a time when they were most themselves, not happiest or most proud, not saddest or most reflective, but when they were no one else

but themselves and their light shone brightest, where they were in their own state of grace, satisfied and content. And that's when I lock in on this image of them in my mind, I pray for that in them in perpetuity. Next comes the hardest part, trying to see myself the same way. But I pray until I do, rolling through the frames of my own past, until a true image of myself becomes clear, then I concentrate on that likeness, embrace it, think it, and open up to letting it fill me. Then, I say, amen.

Like two hands in worship, poems and prayers interlace, dancing with our soul and song to the music we must face. I write poetry because I believe life rhymes. For more meaning is why I pray. And when the rhyme matters in the meanings and verse, it's a heaven-sent parlay. Matthew McConaughey, ladies and gentlemen. The book is called Poems and Prayers.

He was a hand model. Show him the hands, would you? Now, the nails are a little short. Give him the nails. That's where the, those are nice hands. Austin, Texas, went and saw an agency, and she goes, you got nice hands. You know, you quit chewing your nails. I could maybe get your hand modeling job.

I quit chewing my nails that day. And about two weeks after that, and I got a job. job for Al's former where there's a newspaper with a hand on a cumberbund and it's mine and I got paid $2995 for that pretty good to work Matthew McConaughey again show him the teeth Matt nice teeth as well better in person better in person out of what I thought it's nice too let's just request it all right dude great talk buddy loved it friend, my man. All you have to do is open up your hand.

My man.