Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Michael Kosta

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Michael Kosta (The Daily Show, Standup) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. Subscribe to Michael Kosta:  @MichaelKosta  00:00 Intro 00:37 Birdman Joke 4:28 Code Switching & Identity 5:58 Competitiveness 10:12 Long-term vs. Short Term Thinking 14:02 Arrogance in Comedy 16:30 Daily Show 19:02 Managing Competitiveness 22:25 Sponsor: BetterHelp 25:11 Sponsor: Rag & Bone 26:59 Pleasing Others 34:40 Effort 42:37 Sponsor: Aura Frames 45:09 Sponsor: Tushy 46:55 Alcohol 56:00 Work-Family-Nature-Money Balance ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today, I've known for 15, easy. And he's a correspondent on The Daily Show. Hi, I'm Michael Costa. Daily Show correspondent, an intrepid journalist. And he's a host once a week. They're unclear on when they tell them kind of the day before. They should probably do a better system. Welcome to the Daily Show.

He's a great comic. He's got some of my favorite jokes about conservatives and liberals. You can lean left, but you keep one leg in the center. right you can go to the right but keep one leg in the center just do this just do basketball defense drills and he's got a book called uh lucky loser and he's got a podcast called tennis anyone and his name is michael costa the jokes that i would like to talk about that i quote is um costa's talking about how out of touch l.a is and then he yells out nobody in michigan cared about Birdman. Nobody else in this country thought Birdman was a good movie. Do you guys know that?

Is that hard for some of you? Is that hard for some of you to hear that? Well, I'm the cinematographer. No, everybody hated Birdman, dude. No one cared. Like, no one liked Birdman. They didn't think it was interesting. They didn't think it was. Why do you think this? I love it. It was funnier than now it feels like it's too true. It's almost sad. like every single superhero movie, every transformer. But as someone that would travel so much as a comic, you know, you would do Thursday night at the store in L.A., and then Friday night you'd be in Erie, Pennsylvania.

Yeah. It was like, oh, this is different. What most people are like. I remember when Trump got elected the first time. History has been made, Jake. This is a moment a lot of people are going to remember. I had a spot at the store, and everybody was very somber. There was weeping.

There was some people who were weeping at this. the store and the next night I got picked up in Erie to perform and they were all hung over from celebrating and I was like oh yeah big country yes a lot of different people and stuff and things that happened yes and now the funny thing is wherever you are you think that's how everyone is correct yeah even in a room you think everyone's like us yeah and then yeah but we have to deal that was right it to me it was more about like that joke if I can tell you about your act no it was just about like What do you think is how, like, this is all, this is fake.

This is not a real environment, and you're beaming it out as if it's gospel, and then shock, you're blindsided when people aren't interested in it. It's easy to make L.A. that punchline, but it really, like you said, it's everywhere. Yeah. I say about COVID, everyone's COVID was true. My brother in Michigan was like, it's not a big deal. There's not that many people that have it. His neighbor was four miles that way.

He didn't see a lot of COVID. My COVID was Brooklyn had refrigerated trucks out in the street to put the bodies in. That was true also. Let's be honest, Neil, United States should be divided into 13 separate countries, different passports. I mean, it is crazy that we are one thing. Yeah. Well, which I like, and I like that that's what you're, because I've always been open to, as like liberal as I read and is like I do a joke about looking like well you're skinny and that is true it's so true

it's like you don't see a lot of like die hard no but it's their dive their type two die bet yes um if they're a Republican in my sky my my size but I did Rogan ayahuasca ayahuasca and then the DMT and people go why do you do it's like because I like them yeah it doesn't occur to people that a large group of people could honestly become republic like just hear the hear the facts, hear the stats, and go, I think that's better for me. Yeah. They don't understand. They can't believe that someone could come to that conclusion.

Whereas I feel like you've always been open to it. You've probably read more open to it than I have. And I believe you're a Democrat, probably, but like maybe not always. And that's also totally acceptable. And I believe you got there in an honest way. Right, right, right. I have voted the last four elections. I've voted Democrat.

at, but I've been, I voted for different reasons at different times in my life. We also underestimate peer group. When I'm here, when I'm at the Daily Show every day, I can have a Republican thought and quickly it gets snuffed out or I realize, hey, maybe that's not serving me right now. And so this happens when you live in the country,

when you live in rural areas, when you live your block. And when you move, hey, I wear more Carhart when I'm out in the country. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Right now I'm wearing some tailored fit. Yeah, and here you use, you wear Carhart work in progress. That's the cool car heart.

Yeah, that's the cool car heart. There's a cool car heart. Yeah. So, yeah, and that's, and, and people use the term code switching as if it's this giant sacrifice. That's true, that is a big way. I have to code switch. I'm code switching every second of every conversation.

We all, in the sentence, I'm trying to gauge, do you like it? Yeah. Let me shade it a little bit. Then you're a coward. No, I'm not. I'm a social animal. Have you ever tried to like, when you connect with two different groups of friends at the same time? It's impossible.

Can't do it. My tennis friends and comedy friends. I one time I had a party in L.A. And I invited my tennis friends and my comedy friends. It was the biggest mistake I ever made in my life. I didn't know how to talk to anybody. You didn't know who to be. I was code switching.

Yeah. Yes. And you can't believe what negative losers your comedy friends are. and what uptight douchebags your tennis front of them. Correct. And how judgmental they are. Yes. Okay, so let's do some blocks real quick.

Let's do some breaks. I remember seeing that his, when he hosts the Daily Show, it got very good ratings. Oh, thank you for that. Well, which kind of probably leads to this first one. Yeah, if that's the one you're going to pick. I don't know. Competitiveness.

Yeah. As I have a lot of thoughts on this. Yeah, I'd love to hear him. And I want to hear you go first, and I'll tell you mine. Well, through a lot of self-exploration, both with a professional and reflection on myself, competitiveness is this thing that exists in me. And it's both helped me to realize it's not just in me.

It's in all of us. And also the family I came from was a, I call it jovial competitiveness. But I mean, some of my first memories were my dad saying, like, who can get up the stairs? first. Yeah. There's four kids. Yeah. So that's like, that's just to go get dressed for the day. There was a lot of competitiveness. There was a lot of competing. And in comedy, it's, to use a tennis term, it's both served me. It helps me. It motivates me. It drives me. And it's hurt me. I mean, it's, you know, there are times to collaborate. There are times to watch someone crush and be happy and

good with that and be a lover of comedy and my competitive brain, you know, this can be a challenge for me at times. And that's, but I can't deny it either because it's also helped me to work hard and stay motivated and to push myself. Yeah, because when I knew you, it was in L.A., when I would see you often, it was in L.A. and I don't want to say you didn't seem to have any introspection but I would hate to say that yeah you did seem like not like just yeah you didn't enjoy if

somebody else was doing well and I'm not saying it's the most enjoyable thing in the world yeah I think the idea is most people try to hide it no most people don't do a good job of hiding it but do they they you give them credit for making the effort to try to hide it yeah right I think you were like which I I can relate to. Like, I know where it's from. I know it's from sports. Yeah. I have five

brother. Like, I get it. Dude, that's, to me, I'm seeing my brother, Todd, get more attention from mom and dad than me. So that's like, that's what I've learned at this point. Yeah. I wouldn't, I would never say it bothered, I would never say it's bothered me if someone's doing well. But I will say this. I notice it. You notice it. And you're like, oh, shit, I can't be, and maybe it's from a place of self-deprecation. I can't be. And maybe it's from a place of self-deprecation. I can't the only one that sucks on this lineup. Again, my point is I'm in the same boat. So I'm

saying it, I'm not saying it like you're immoral or unethical or whatever. I'm just saying it like, I noticed it in you and I knew where it was from and I was like, yeah, it's like in the last dance, which I reference all the time everybody does. It's like I don't know, I can't argue with

the results. Yeah. And if he has to cry 15 years later, okay. Yeah. If you don't want to play that way, don't play that way. Brick. He's only crying, he doesn't think it's wrong. He's crying because you think it's wrong and you're trying to tell him it's wrong and he's going like, I swear to you, it's right.

Well, what's crazy about sport is that... Cool that you don't say the S anymore, that you've... Sport, yeah, right, sports. It's very European. The result is the result. The result kind of trumps everything. In the art form, and this is where I'm saying that competitors can be hurtful,

I remember watching Chris Rock at the story, store many times. And I was like, this is, at times can be atrocious. And then you see, he's fully working. He's working the bit. Yeah. See the bid in six months. And that was a huge lesson for me.

It sounds silly, right? But that was a huge lesson for me as someone that was like constantly feeling like I need to prove myself, constantly needing to make sure I wasn't the worst one in the lineup to watch like a worker work. And that's where the competitiveness can hurt you. Hey, I got to do a good job. I got to do a job. Hey, man, go work the bit.

Be competitive with your soul. to make the bit as best you can. Like, be result-oriented on a longer time. On a longer time. And that is, and that might be the block for me actually, is more like long-term thinking versus short-term thinking. I mean, in tennis, it was win the match, win the match, win the match. And I love, you know, Pete Sampras has an amazing memoir

where he's like 14 serving and volleying, doing this insane tactic that ever, No kid was doing, but his coach was saying, in 10 years, you're going to win Wimbledon. And guess what happened? In eight years, he won Wimbledon. Yeah. And it was like... So the coach was wrong.

The coach was wrong. The coach also later was imprisoned for molesting children, which is crazy. Who wasn't? I think his name was Peter Fisher. It's be funny if this was our big tangent now for like the next hour. And if it wasn't Peter Fisher, then I've made a grave air. I'm a huge error. And we're all going to...

But I loved that, like, as a 14-year-old, 12-year-old. he was think they were thinking so long term and what were you thinking as a comic you wouldn't think you would try you would yeah I wouldn't be thinking five years at work you would just do like this works I'm going to kill tonight and I have a new bit but I'm not even going to bother and yeah like well yeah correct and what what has what has what has progressed with me over time since you've met me last time I saw you was at my Tuesday night show which is entirely a new joke show. I recognized that my

competitiveness. Who's been doing a new joke show for 15 years? You have. That's correct. Is you still doing a West Side comic? Yeah. But like, yeah, that's because I realize

like, I have to. I have to have a place and buy. Yeah, I have to. And people are shocked. How do you write so many jokes? Because I have to. You could do this.

Anyone could do this. If you just need to get six people and you get a good read of whether That's true. So find a six-seater. Yes, true. And make it, I mean, like, literally, your show that I did last week is too crowded. Ladies and gentlemen, we are here every single Tuesday doing new jokes and new bits.

I'm Michael Costa. Please follow me on Instagram. Thank you very much. Good night. Bye. I love you. Good boy, Walter. Go to your bed.

Yeah. I mean, at times, it's been so hot lately. At times, the comics and myself will walk out and we're going, you know what? I kind of don't know if that was a good bit because they were just excited. I'm scared to do a new bit. because it's like, I don't, it's so embryonic that I don't. I get more nervous for that show than I do for a place you sold out, a place you flew to, a place you know what's going to happen.

It's like, you're going to eat it. Yeah. You're going to fucking eat it. And a place you sold out, you're doing prepared shit. Yeah. Yeah. And are you surprised by how much material you can write when you have to? Yeah.

And what's happened to me is I've even, like, started to coast a little bit and copy and paste from the week before. Yeah. when I'm like the whole point of this is don't do that and it is a muscle and I I'm forgiving you I forget thank you yeah and well as the father of the weekly show I'm forgiving I I had to have a discussion with myself about that and say like why well first of all it's like what's a new bit what just because you did it last week you know I think one of the things I've learned from watching the greats is is that they rewrite uh-huh that's a thing that I just had to learn I do Hey, that is a good idea, but the first time you said it, it could be adjusted and figured out.

And so now I do, I will take a joke from the week before and rewrite it. But look, I'm going to pat myself on the back. That was a big, mature moment for me as a performer to go, I need a place where I can work on new stuff because the egocentric Michael was just wanting to crush with old stuff forever. What are you going to do? Just do the same shit forever? Also, you start to hate comedy then. that's like you just did a perfect distillation of Michael Costa. Am I just going to fucking crush forever?

I'm just going to crush forever. Why wouldn't I crush forever? And that, what do you think that is that? Well, I think that's funny. Of course it's funny. Yes, yes. But it's also true of your, what is that part of you? Is that like, I think it's probably.

Pettiness or like, is it like small advantage? Is it advantage-taking? Yeah, advantage-tap. I assume it's competitiveness, but it might be as simple as this. When I was eight or nine, and my mom said, you can see any concert you want. That's your Christmas gift. And I picked to go see Dennis Miller talk about Gorbachev in his act.

And as an eight-year-old, I just loved the certainty, the arrogance, the vocabulary. No clue what he was. was saying, but just love that. To me, nothing is funnier than arrogance because we're all going to die. Yeah. No one's, no one is going to defeat it. And also, like, you have a good instrument for arrogance, meaning like, tall, good looking, yeah, it's the tools, it fits in the toolbox. Yeah. Yeah. And so I've always found arrogance to be very funny. And yeah, I would mix that with comedic tool and also advantage, competitiveness. I love the little one-up.

I love a good dig. Locker room dig. Hey, that was a really good set for you. I love that type of thing. Hey, that shirt looks really good on you. Dennis Miller, to bring it to him, used to say to Chris Rock at S&L, when Rock was starting, Dennis would go, Chris Rock, how's that new Eddie Murphy thing going?

So what is that? Because you ask me, I don't know. I, I personally, think that's a such a funny comedy I know I enjoy it but the issue is and I've actually yelled this at

Chris because he's the king of it you're too successful for this joke right right like you're too it's not funny because it's it just becomes cruel I go I go it was cool that you were like opinionated before bring the paint since then

you have to shout out like it's just fucking rude at a certain point I mean, isn't there a line in rap god by M&M where he says, it's not even cool for me to say I'm the best anymore? No, it's like, because you're right. It's not even funny. It's not even funny. Yeah, it's not cool.

So it's like it was, I know, I know you're the underdog. Yeah. I know I'm the underdog. A lot of people don't think I'm an underdog and a lot of people don't think you're an underdog on site. You on site me based on credits. But like, but like you said, I said a fucking hilarious thing. that you said to me, the last time I did

the Daily Show, I used to do the Daily Show from time to time, Trevor did it. Trevor would have me on. Nobody else wanted me there. We're joined by my close friend, Neil Brennan, everybody. And Costa, the last time I did it goes, this is Neil's final appearance on the Daily Show. And I promise you, you're right. Right. I don't even think that was meant.

I don't think, I mean, that was meant to be probably a funny dig. It was. But it wasn't meant to be true. I knew, I thought it was funny then. I knew it was true. God bless. Well, you know, what you're describing is reminding me of a joke when I first met you

that you used to do that I used to get mad at you about, which was where you would say, oh, man, do you remember your joke? I'm sure you do. It was like, I don't have any money in my bank account. Do you remember it? It was like one of your first bits that I saw in L.A. And it was something about. Oh, it was the global financial crisis is your money safe.

Yes. On the news, they go, is your money safe. And I go, what are you talking about, the $89? Right. And I was always like, good joke, good bit. Neil, you can't do that bit. People were furious. Now, meanwhile, but here's the...

But I don't even know if you did have money. I don't actually know. First of all, I didn't have as much money as everybody thought. Right. And Louis did a very similar joke, and everybody was fine with that one. Right. Because they had more respect for Louis. And like, it's just one of these things like, hey, everybody, fuck off a little bit.

Yeah. I did a joke with you where I was like, it's... And you got... I'd seem to get mad where I go, Costa, you're doing... I go, where's your special? going to be going to and you go comedy center and i go that's that sucks because you're so funny and no one's going to see it that's right and you were mad at me and i was not mad at you okay good uh i was not mad at you and i but it's a tone that's not for everyone well and i would say

people that are close to me in my life both family and um competitive arenas former athletes would say costa you love to dig it you love to dish it but when we dish it to you get all pissy about it. And I kind of appreciate that. And you know what I say to them? You don't know shit, motherfucker. I think you're right. You thought that way. Yeah. Um, okay. So I don't know if that's a block, but that's something I have to manage and think about. Am I being, am I being competitive? What's the worst version? What, when you have to manage it, is it PR? Meaning, do you can manage it because you're afraid people will think that you're a shitty colleague? No. No. Or is it ruining your experience? Yeah, it's ruining my experience. And it's not,

it's not it's ruining my path to my best self yeah i'm not no it's not like i i i burn the bridge and and storm out or destruct anything or any friendships it's just if i have a longer term progressive focus i i can be better and happier yeah and and the podcast on that and i mean i don't even have enough time um but it's look i'm only here for it i need a certain length and then I get at. Look, it's not a lot of the time I'm not even here. Does the competitiveness help you, though, with my point? Because I find I'm very competitive, and it makes me better.

Like, the reason I do a weekly show, among other things, is like, because I don't want to fucking be looked over. There's an absolutely clear hierarchy of talent, achievement, et cetera, in life, unfortunately, and I'd like to be higher up, then lower up. Yeah. And the only way you do it is by effort. Yeah. It definitely serves us. And I think it's naive to say it doesn't exist in all of us.

Yeah. I do sometimes wish the volume of it was turned down a little bit in this industry. It's one of the only industries I've ever noticed where your competitor and peer gets, is a billboard. You have to drive past every day. You know, I wonder if like the, you know, the CEOs are not. I mean, tennis, it's like that. Yeah, it is. But tennis is, like, overtly competitive.

Michael Costa, former professional tennis player, once ranked 864 in the world. It's sport by nature. Here's a better one. Basketball. Yeah. Meaning, like, that guy has a shoe. I don't. You think that's not an issue?

No, it's, sure it is. It's, yeah. Why is he on the logo when they say coming up this weekend, Houston versus Dan they're going with Yokic and they're not yeah they're the two guys versus the two guys once you are the one of the guys

then they get ready it's like there's a lot of it yeah well I always notice I'm sure everyone does if comedians if you think you're not competitive when the big festival flyer comes out and there's different size fonts that always makes me laugh

I'm always like it's so clear exactly and yeah and then what sport has like the franchise player. Is that football maybe? I'm sure you want to be a franchise. Labeled? Yeah. Yeah. You get labeled It's like a contractual. Yes. Yeah. Football. Football is the only one.

Yeah. Where you're late. It's kind of restricting in a weird way. But like, but yeah, the NBA is so much about like, like, this guy and he and he's girls and all that shit. But it's mostly about like, it's, they're like almost like movie casts. Yeah. And if you're not like, I'm good. I got, I was like the. be fleeting that other movie and now I'm like the ninth of whatever this show is sponsored by better help you know me and my lady a lot talk about that I didn't this sense isn't structured correctly but my lady and I often talk about what it just kind of like the traditions of relationships like all these things you do that you don't know why you do them the difference

between a good tradition and a bad tradition like is you can make your own new traditions if you Like, I think the holidays make it a little crazy because you feel like I have to do all this stuff. But I came to a conclusion this weekend with my mom. Like, I don't, I like one-on-one stuff. I don't like parties. So I'm just going to hang out with my mom when no one's around. It sounds a little creepy when I say like this, but you get the idea. Like, I just would rather hang out with her with just me and her.

If she wants a relationship, you know, one-on-one's pretty much the best. Don't get me wrong, guys. I own the room and I'm doing anecdotes and that this. guy and I punched him in the face. It's incredible. Anyone who knows who's been at a party with me knows that. And the reason I'm bringing this up in a better help ad is because one of the things therapy can do is it just makes you question and run quality control on your life and choices. Like, do I like this? Do I like doing this? Why do I like this? Do I not like it? Could I stop? Could I start a new one? You just, what do you like? What do you like? And how?

how can and how can you get there a therapist can help you design it yeah but and maybe you want to start a new tradition of therapy who you know what i mean maybe maybe now's the time you i've beaten you into submission i've talked about better help pretty much every episode and uh i talk about therapy pretty much every episode you know my lady's a therapist i etc etc mental health guy here's some similar points better help us quality therapist uh better help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the United States. Look, they got 30,000 therapists and BetterHelp is one of the largest online therapy platforms having served over 5 million people globally. Here's a call to action. I'm going to read it verbatim.

This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. My listeners get 10% off BetterHelp.com slash neal. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P dot com slash N-A-L.L. Betterhelp.com, go do it. We can end this misery. We can end this. Guys, I'm going to keep doing these ads until every single person on earth is going to better help. And then they'll probably stop advertising.

So it will have been, and it'll hurt me in the long term. Go to betterhelp.com slash any a. Guys, why am I obsessed with rag and bone? It's a good question. Well, first of all, they used to have a place near my house in Venice, Los Angeles. I probably wore them before that, though. In fact, I know I wore it before that. I remember the girlfriend who put me in Ragged Bone.

Her name was Samira. Why am I dragging her into it? I don't know. She's the one who got me hooked on Ragged Bone. It's good fabrics. It's good cuts, good buttons. You'll feel a little bit, like, you know, sophisticated. That's what I'm trying to say.

You're going to feel a little French. I don't know if that's a thing that they would like me. You just, I always felt a little like, you know what? I know about, I'm a man of the world. and I know about cool fashion brands. So they got this rag and bone infused denim. It's good, it's soft. It's good and soft.

And it's a good color, it's a good black. It did feel broken in right away. It was stretchy in the right, in the right, in the right way. It had structure, stretchy, with structure. Soft, firm, it has it all. I was wearing the shirt, so, you know, I'm not that. I was never aware of it. It's a good fit.

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How about pleasing others, which runs contrary to what we're saying. Yeah, I know. Is it women? One of those I put in there is a false flag. Okay, great. We'll have to decide at the end. Perfect for our time. No, I was thinking more about my family in that regard.

Like, I was the youngest of four kids. and I just, you know, and again, I've learned a lot of this stuff in the last five years through therapy and just growing up, having my own kids. Holy shit, you really start to like, oh, why is that characteristic in my child bothering me so much? Oh, it's my characteristic. Yeah.

Oh, shit. Yeah, you know, I was like, keep mom and dad happy, get good grades, always do the right thing. I was always coach's favor. and you know at times again it has to do with your own development you're doing things for other people not really forging your own ground thinking this is what I want to do and really knowing what I want to do and this is how I become my best person it's not to please others or do the right thing it's to know who you are and attack it in my opinion what's did you grow up

religious we were raised Catholic but like I mean I'm saying more I mean that's just we're right but but but the moral framework is selflessness that's like yeah so yeah so now the western religion the way of the of western american whatever american culture is like selfishness so yeah you do go wait a minute it's i still find it really hard to distill what do i want why do i want this yeah and and you're still certain i mean are you actively reflecting on that that? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I make decisions thinking there's more us than there is in comedy, in relationship, and whatever, like, and like, it's worth a team. No, you're not too. And then I go, I'm, I walk around going like, you're, everyone goes, Neil, you're cynical, you're cynical, and then it turns out like, I wasn't cynical enough. You were right. Yeah.

Yeah. In fact, I underestimated how, how selfish people could be. selfish people could be. Someone asked me a question after my show recently about, they said, about why you do it, okay. They said, why did you waste our money? No, they said. That's an old a tell joke.

A lot of people ask me, Dave, how do you do it? And others ask me, Dave, why do you do it? That's good. That was a good advantage, dig you just did there, by the way. I like that. Thanks. And I'm not going to let that bother me. No, the question.

No, no, no, I stole his joke and then said I stole it. They said, which one do you like doing better? stand-up or the Daily Show, and I said, oh, that's a good question, actually. Let me reflect on that. It's really fun being in a team sport, daily show, but you get exhausted playing for the team sometimes. And it's really fun stand-up going, I want this. I want that. I'm going to say this. Oh, this isn't really an act-out joke. Well, I want to make it an act-out joke. And we're going to do that. And that is fun. And you are someone that can definitely attest to the team environment in the writer's room i mean what's your what's your opinion on team versus individual the thing

that you mentioned you mentioned i always found john mackenrose thing that his his biography is like literally complaining about the fact that he didn't wasn't a professional soccer player right he wanted to be on a team so badly yeah true and like tennis teams are like wamp want it's like Davis cup no one gives a shit doubles no one gives a shit job even knowing those two phrases. Come on. That's good. So.

Well, then college tennis, he played one year at Stanford, won the NCAA, and then won the team. It's like he's even done with that shit. Yeah. But he didn't, it didn't, it's just interesting when someone loves being on a team. Yeah. But it's so good at a, it's like a weird sort of Greek, not a tragedy, but we'll call it a Greek story. Yeah.

My feeling is, it's like a bittersweet, uh, uh goodbye to team oh yeah because i love me you're at that's where you're at i love me on i love i love i love i love anytime i've written with the people i've written with i love it i love it too much do you know i mean like i really love it in a kind of codependent way yeah and i have to that's interesting but by the way as someone as as as someone that would you know if someone was writing for me and they loved writing for me codependently that's exactly who you want i haven't to agree with you yeah because it's like i'm gonna do i'm gonna be so selfless that you're gonna fucking crush yeah there's but there is like then i guilt them

and like there are there's codependence look it's not it's not my side of the street is not exactly but like right there are i have whatever it's not like clean and whatever like i whatever there's plenty of problems but yeah but for the most part i really enjoyed it so yeah i've had to make a again I but I'm also selfish yeah and and I it took me a long time to like admit like to being a ham like no I want fucking attention yeah and oh come on anybody that does this right but I didn't start doing it until I was 34 right so like that's the that's kind of the rub of like I did it a little I did it once when it's 19 23 like but so I was always kind of like oh no I couldn't such

hand me fools and then finally it was like i'm a hammy fool i was a worse person before i did comedy because i i was seeking that ham attention affection in life and i didn't have an where were you i mean i was a tennis player and i was an arbor michigan as a kid growing up every single report card said like michael can't get enough attention yeah we get so much done when Michael's not there, you know, like literally, I have this stuff. And when I started to do comedy, it was so intense, short bursts, these three five-minute sets where you could, it almost like sustained me. It was like I got like my Dracula got his blood, you know?

And so it's actually leveled me out. And the times that I'm not performing, I start to feel it again. It's very funny. Yeah, like it is a need. Yeah, which is probably a sign of addiction. What would have made you a better tennis player? Is there a way to take that, like, need and harness it into that? Yeah, I mean, the first thing, the first block I gave you was competitiveness

was definitely in Achilles' heel of mine in tennis in the sense that I would think short-term instead of long-term, I would think about this exact moment right here. I have to win this point as opposed to, like, I'm going to work on this long-term to be a better player all around. And I think I have, albeit slowly, realize that in comedy. hey, this guy can crush tonight and you can do the bits that you're working on

and that's going to be okay and you're going to sleep fine at night. So that has been a process for me and I have learned from that 40 years after the fact. Did you? So you could have... But maybe this is just who we are, man. I mean, I don't know if like,

yes, we can work on ourselves but I think you're born maybe just a competitive whatever. Well, that's how I was talking if Jason Biggs was just hearing like... Nice, bro. Bro. Nice booking, bro. Thank you, bro.

But just talking about, like, who's a movie star and who's a movie actor? Right. And like, you know, sometimes you just get, I know. Like, there are, having worked with, like, the top comedians, there are times where I'm like, oh, fuck. Different level. Yeah, like, okay. There is a joke that I did that, like, the joke was, if Big and Two Buck were alive,

They'd still be, they would big and Tubac were alive. They'd both be playing detectives on law and order. Right, right. Good joke. Right. Then Rock does a joke. If Tupac was alive, he'd be in a Tyler Perry movie kicking a dark skin woman down the steps. Okay, that's the same joke.

Right, right. And his is twice as good as mine. Right, right. So, like, what am I? I'm not mad at myself. I'm still very good. I'm very impressed with myself or whatever. Comparison is the Thief of Joy.

We know this. Yep. But it's also comparison is a good barometer of the truth. Yeah. Yeah. And what are you going to do? We were talking about quitting recently. I was on the road in Austin and the green room there at Mothership.

We were just chatting. And it was fun to talk with other working comics and about how you start with people, starting doing comedy. And some people stick with it and you're still like, it's been 20 years, you still have not really made anybody laugh. And some people, five or six years in, go like, I'm out. And we were actually applauding those people and saying it's okay to quit at stuff.

Like there's all this, stick with it and never give up. It's like, well, some stuff you gotta quit. You gotta quit at stuff. And I'm not suggesting. Yeah, it's like all the thing of like, and you, if you dig deep and no, sometimes you just go, this is a total waste of my time. I'm not a DJ.

I used to have like turntables when I was a kid I was trying to beat match I thought it was cool and eventually it's like dude you're good at other stuff and you're not good at this it's time to say goodbye to it

I quit golfing because I was pretty good and I never got any better LA's a tough town to golfing what are gonna do the Griffith Park and the coyotes are going to quit here oh shit I quit here because it takes 12 hours

to do around a golf here because you got to run a car don't you love seeing people walk down like Avenue B with clubs on their back what the fucking trombone down the street you fucking dork um the uh the only other thing i once tried to do a joke about the pole vaulters at delta because i once saw a pole vaulter checking his poll and it's like

you gotta love the sport dude man that is a fucking huge bag getting pussy there's not that of all pussy that we anybody's hearing about yeah um the uh yeah and and also just like i bet there was a a moment when you started guest hosting and you were like, boy, Trevor was good at this. Oh, dude, I text him immediately. I mean, I didn't have John Stewart's number. I actually messaged Craig Kilbourne, the original host

of the Daily Show, and Trevor and I just was like, I mean, first of all, the heart rate didn't go down for you know, three days still after that. You're just constantly like up, up, up, like, you know, you're not, you know, now that we've done it for a long time, about two years now, I've been occasionally hosting.

I understand the pace in that morning. Hey, Michael, don't, like, shoot out 10 jokes in the morning meeting at 9 a.m. Like, save your energy. Save it. So, but yeah, I text Trevor. I was like, dude, seven years he did it? Six years every day.

John did it for 16 before that. It's exhausting. It's hard. And also, most people judge it, judge you off of one little clip they saw that happened on Wednesday. You know, so. I'm sure there's a point where you're like,

I should be the host, I should be the host, I should be the host, and then you do it, and you're like, yeah, I still should be the host, but I could work on my interviews, I can work on act number one, I could, you know, I mean, and the thing is, it reminds me a lot of tennis, maybe that's just because of what I know, but you have to do so many different tools, and you can be great at one thing and blow it

because you didn't, like, you know, I've done act one and act two, I'm very happy with, and then it's like the interview comes, and I fucking suck. or I make the guests feel like shit or like at least I think I make them feel like and it's just like God I thought I had

I thought I had that match in my hand and I blew it you know and by the way because you can't fucking worry about the third act you can't you can't you're so yeah I remember doing a thing yeah

like doing a pilot for one of those shows and I couldn't believe how long the monologue I'd written was right where I was like I'm still and Seth Myers has gone like it happens so much off of where I'm like, I still have to talk. I know. I can't believe I have to keep talking. Like, holy shit. I mean, and the, the graphic over the shoulder is a relatively newer

monologue concept. Trump's office always has a lot going on. It's like one of those Dunkin' Donuts with the Baskin-Robbins in it. I came here for a mint chip, but I might as well get a sausage egg while I'm here. You know, like, I don't know if it was a daily show the first day. I mean, now everybody kind of throws to a clip. But, I mean, these old Tonight Shows. Oh. I mean, Carson's doing a seven minute, like, alone with no graphical help. Anybody remember what I was talking about?

There's a lot of reasons why the desk works. So competitive competitiveness and getting a better overall feel for what your gift is and trying to get better and also accepting that's my gift. I find like not even a challenge but it's an interesting part of like because now especially it's like the comedy decathlon where it's like can you do that can you can you do uh you crush YouTube

but your Instagram's well no but that happened a whole time it's like fame is regional now where people know you from this but not like oh that's a you so like some people are incredible podcasters not great comics some people are great comics not great like just going i got to accept the fact at what i'm good at and just leaning into that yeah and and being okay if the industry or your peers i don't know like that that what's success money's nice everyone loves money um but it's at a certain point it's like am i getting the most out of this yeah fucking machine and am i having fun doing it i don't know it's fun it's fun i don't do that

Okay. No, really not my bag. I do like the calling, though. Like, I like, I do forget that, and let me just speak, you know, confidently. Because there are times. For once. There are times that you're in comedy, you work in comedy. The more you go up, the more talented people you're around, the harder workers, the people that navigate the business better.

So you're constantly with higher levels. And you can sometimes think, like, I don't. I get here? Do I deserve to be here? Am I meant to be here? And then I'll go hang with, like, my high school friends. And who's the funniest? Me. I forgot about that. I forgot that I actually am funny because I'm always just hanging with funny people who do it professionally. And it's like, oh, no, I can crush. So it's like, knowing your calling is important. Yeah. And then not killing yourself if it's, you're not the best. If your joke. Yeah, if Chris writes a better joke than you, or of Klepper's fucking rating, whatever.

Or Ronnie, whoever you're. Well, neither of those guys are. No, yes. That was a mistake to imagine either one of them. Hey, guys, are you a last-minute shopper like your friend, Neil? You know the feeling. Shelds are empty, ideas running low. Look, I'm not, you can imagine how I feel about holiday gift giving.

But whatever, this is the world we live in. So, ORAFrams is a dope solution for, if you want to get a gift that feels, personal. It, and that makes it sound like it's not personal. It is personal. Okay, here's what aura frames is. You go on their website. You can upload unlimited photos and video. They have an app as well. Do it on there. And then they'll send you the frame. They'll send it to a friend, the person, the recipient, with all the photos you loaded on there. If you're a straight guy, would it be funny to load up a frame with a bunch of pictures of your genitals? I think it would be what I do it I'm a little past the demographic of doing that but pretty funny or or send

them send one of your mom don't do the one I just suggested it's a good like family one the thing with family is you just have to keep promoting family you got to go like we're a family right you nothing happens you just go like we're huh we're still a family remember that time we're a family there and now we're still a family and that's that makes us all feel good And then they get it loaded with you. And then once they have it, they can erase your stuff if they want and put their own stuff on. You can, you could load in a video message of yourself going like, welcome to, hey, why I got your frame, smile or whatever.

It's a great gift. And I've talked about it before where I had, I loaded, I have a few of my house that I've loaded with different stuff. And a friend complained that he, I didn't mention him in the things I had loaded. so that's cute maybe he's listening to that now he's a British comedian you can probably guess who it is here's the call to action for a limited time save on the perfect gift by visiting aura frames a ura f r a M-R-A-F-R-A-M-E-S dot com to get $35 off or is best-selling carver mat frames named number one by wirecutter by using promo code N-E-A-L at checkout that's a u r a F-R-A-M-E-S dot com

promo code new this deals exclusive to listeners and frames a lot fast so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays support the show by mentioning us to check out would you terms and conditions apply hey guys you know there's no rules on what you can get people for Christmas so you could get them you know some socks or you could really help them and get them a tushy a basically a bidet daily dignity endless luxuries and they'll actually use a tushy bidet it's not like i'm kind of you anyone i've ever talked to who has a bidet is like dude life-changing oh it's always guys by the because i don't go up to women and be like what's your butt routine whereas guys i have no problem also you want to think about talk about a gift that's going to remind people about you that's all any of us want it's like hey remember me and don't worry about that they're sitting whatever they're doing with it's they're going to love it they're people love it you want to be associated with something people love i'm on my fourth i don't even

know how many i'm on and i have an extra one in my house that i haven't even installed yet so it's just incredible you did talk about life hacks this is one of the best life hacks of around and it's like a hundred it's not it's not like going to put you in the poor house do they still is that still something that still happens you're not going to wear in suspenders in a in a barrel here's the call to action remember a hole is only a naughty word if you wipe For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use code N-E-A-L at checkout. I'm actually out of the...

I can't even get this deal anymore because I've ordered too many. NEAL at checkout. That's 10% off your first bidet order at hello-tushy.com with promo code N-E-A-L-H-E-L-O-T-U-S-H-H-E-L-O-T-U-S-H-Y dot com. Thank you. See you in your butt. Alcohol. Oh, yeah, this is a good one. Go.

I feel like everybody's talked about that. Yeah, but not everybody has a problem. I mean, I'm interested in everybody's... What were you doing? Anxiety? Were you trying to quit anxiety or you had fun? Alcohol is one of those, you know, it might have taken me a while to admit this, but it's one of those things in my life that need to be managed.

I talk about it in the book, Lucky Loser, available everywhere. The first time I did comedy, I was like a little bit drunk. It wasn't at the Barnes & Noble. I went to, they said, no, we don't, we weren't interested. Sorry. Oh, that's too bad. I'm kidding. I'm doing some of the high status comedy that I've known for.

I like that advantage comedy, because it also is like a tennis term, advantage. I get it. I like that. The first time I ever did comedy, I literally say this in the book. I was probably four beers in. I thought I needed the boost, like, from a nerve standpoint. And then you're done, and it went okay. So then you celebrate with some beers.

And I was like, you know, that was the first time I ever did this thing. I wish I wouldn't have set up the ritual of drinking after that. Because then it was like a party vibe. And it remained that. for 10 years after, when I was watching my peers write better jokes, be funnier, get sets and more important TV shows. And I was like, why not me? And it was kind of like, well, you go out every night after your set.

You know, like, and you can always find a group of comics to keep go drinking. I don't know if you've ever, I don't actually know what your relationship with alcohol is, but many times at the comedy store, you know, you go out late. this was Uber home. The next day I would get an Uber back to the comedy store to get my car. There's an AA meeting in the morning there. Yeah.

And it's just such a hilarious group of people who are your friends. You didn't even know we're sober. Yeah. Who you thought they were drinking with you the night before, but they were just drinking soda or whatever. But to be like picking up your car with a bunch of people that have been like,

oh, I'm dedicated to like not doing this. Yeah. And did you, was it hard to admit like, oh, because Sebastian doesn't drink. I mean, whatever. I don't even. I think he drinks wine, but I've never seen him drink at the club. Like, there's a lot of really successful comics who don't drink. Yeah, and just, I remember, like, having a discussion with myself, like, you know, do you ever see those guys like really shit face hanging around the bar? No. No. And that doesn't mean you have to not do that,

but it's just, it was, it was a good thought to have. Yeah. It was a good thought to have. I mean, let's make a tennis comparison. I don't think anybody has ever done that. that there are guys that practice after their matches yep i never even knew you were allowed to do that you know and it was like oh you won or lost but you're back out there oh that's an interesting thing when i played at university at illinois you know my recruiting trip i did recruiting trips to illinois kentucky miami you would get drunk 48 hours you get drunk you go to the football game you get drunk wow what a beautiful tennis facility maybe i'll go to school here whatever my sophomore year we had this whole class that came in to be recruited and they were like the big guys

and i was hosting them and i was like okay we'll go get drunk here we'll get drunk here and they all wanted to practice they all were like they were like can you get us court time and i was i didn't even know how to handle that anyways two years later they win the NCAA championship with those guys i wasn't on the team but uh yeah it is difficult to like have that conversation with yourself but alcohol is one of those potential road bumps that's an easy one for me to indulge in. My family enjoys it. And the industry is set up for it.

Come on. Late nights, open bars, beautiful waitresses, let's do a shot. Fans. Fans will bring you drugs. You know this. Like, it's crazy. So it took some time.

Zilloft. It took some time. I mean, you've had people hand you, all types of stuff, I'm sure. It's taken some time and maturity to go like, oh, let's think about this before the night. Like, what's our plan with alcohol? One drink after? No drinks.

Whatever. And, yeah, it's hard. Of course, it's hard to admit that. But I feel like any time I share that, it helps people who go like, oh, that was the thing for me. I think it's good. I haven't gotten drunk in 20 years. Wow. I think, again, to the point of, like, having a weekly show, you're, you're, you're, you're,

your competitors are if you want I've now started thinking about life as like either you're an A student or you're not and being an A student in life there are guys like Chappelle who can just be an A student because he's got a incredible brain right by the way I mean I'm sure you know this I have watched Chappelle what appears to be blackout drunk on stage performing and it's great I could have also used that as a model but for me, that doesn't serve me. That's my point. And I wasn't using that as a model, but I was using his E, I thought you're supposed to do it. Like, I didn't study and I still got it. Yeah, he could just get it. And I'm, I'm, I'm, the longer I do it, the more I realize, like, I can't just, like, wing it. Yeah. I can't wing it. So, yeah. It's good to know that about yourself. And, and, and, like, if I'm gut, when I do succeed, it's from effort. Yeah. It's like God-given talent, ideas, but my talent is talent and hard work. Let me say this to you, but I'm also going to say it to your listeners.

And in particular, any young person, effort is sexy. Great. Putting in effort, having a positive attitude is sexy, it's romantic, it's awesome, it's purposeful. Yep. And it'll make you happy. Yep. Because it helps you create. And I just want, you know, I coached for a while.

I interact with a lot of young people. Everyone who listens to this is 40. Right. But I just want everyone to know that effort is awesome. Judd said the same thing. Judd said like they in terms of the only thing that him and his wife judge in on camera is people half-assing it. The only thing that's embarrassing is when you're not committed.

Like if you do a big broad effort and like character and everything, he's like, that's bad. We don't judge that. That's, if you tried, then that's... I mean, in, I was thinking about this as well as I was preparing for your podcast. And I was thinking about my comedy, and I was thinking about like, through lines throughout all these years. And I was like, you know, the one, and I'm glad you said the word first, which is even better. Effort is incredibly important to me.

And I will even, I even love sharing with an audience when I believe their effort is poor. I, that's one of my favorite. That's the best. because I'm giving you my effort but you're not giving me your effort and I just think every time I've ever stepped on stage also anytime I've ever stepped on court I can't say it was the most brilliant

I can't say I was the biggest forehand or the best but my effort has always been there and that I find I find very commendable yeah I do too that I'm I'm commendable everyone agrees if anyone is listening to this to the kids listening there's no kids

I'm so thankful that Judd said that too because that is a guy who you know I feel like it's He's chosen his work. Yeah, there's effort. Yep. The times I've seen him work, it's like, oh, I've seen things go.

I saw stepbrothers go from, like, the worst screening I've ever been at. That's hilarious, really? To the point where McKay was, McKay wrote and directed it, co-wrote and directed it, and they did a screening, and I was doing my Jeremy Pivotin movie that I, that McKay produced at the same time. And I go to the screening of Step Brothers, it's not good at all. And I said to McKay, I go, I can't do one of these screenings. right just so you know like whatever that what like i don't have the time for that i don't have the not i don't have like the it was such a and then they worked on it you mean from an ego standpoint or like from like they were it was just a sloppy cut right and then they got it together

and and like it became step brothers but like that's amazing and same with train wreck went to The first re-throw train wreck was, like, bad. A train wreck. And thank you. Come on, Costa. That's why he hosts the Daily Show once in a home. Well, the field pieces at the Daily Show are like that sometimes. Yeah.

You know, these amazing pieces that end up, like, both being funny and saying something pointing about society, sometimes these first cuts are like, put that in a file and never show anybody that. And then through hard work and effort, they can get better. Yeah. So you've got a block, I don't know if this is a false flag. I don't see how it could be, but it's kind of all of them, which is work, family, nature, money balance.

Well, I think the most important word there is just balance. Right. You know, and I, when I first met you, Michael was probably single in a stand-up comic who had moved to L.A. to make it. And now I'm a husband, father, comic who loves comedy, late night TV I feel like late night's the future

so I kind of wanted to really dig into it and the balance is hard man the balance is hard I told you the other night what do you air where do you find yourself leaning everywhere I lean I then regret that lean

so if I lean towards family if I lean towards family no I mean it's like but you can make the argument that if you lean too hard towards family and I'm not doing a good job at comedy like they don't they don't have the stuff like they're not we know we need to save money for them

and did you follow that golfer that like won and said yeah you know it's not scottie sheffler who's it otherwise right a total fucking bore exactly that was the best thing you never was so funny was like Scotty sheffler is on full swing and is the worst when they cut to him you're like oh my god damn you're right I don't think it ever really felt real And then he gives like a being there level of speech about, like a Janus Anta Kumpur level speech of like, what is anything?

I mean, he said, yeah, what is it? Basically, you win the grand slam and 30 seconds later, you're unhappy. I'm not here to inspire somebody else to be the best player in the world because what's the point? You know, this is not a fulfilling life. It's fulfilling from the sense of accomplishment, but it's not fulfilling from a sense of like the deepest, you know, places of your heart. But I found the most interesting part of that was Tom Brady's reaction. Tom Brady then wrote a letter to him saying, hey, man, you got it all wrong.

Like when I was working, working, working, I was thinking about my kids and feeding them. Which made me laugh because I'm like, clearly, Tom, he struck a nerve with you. And like, all the YouTube comments were like, Jazeel, like it broke up the family. How much Tom Brady worked? Yeah. He wrote my children whose names escape me right now. Right. When I'm performing on the road, I love that moment. I feel like a provider. I feel like I'm funny. I feel like I get the feedback that we need and desire. But then in the morning when I wake up and I'm laying in a hotel room for 10 hours, I'm like, I should be with my fucking kids. Yeah. I should be with my kids right now. Like they want engagement. They want to kick the soccer ball. And by the way, it's not about kicking the soccer ball. When they kick the soccer ball, they tell you that Mason at camp said something. And that's like, it's all that. That's the shit you miss.

Which Jerry Seinfeld refers to as garbage time. You want to have garbage time with your kids when nothing's happening. It's nothing. When it's everything. Oh, I love that. One of my favorite. I love that.

Yeah, that's right. I saw that. I saw that. That is, which I think is a daily stoic. Yeah. Which he also follows closely, right? He calls, it's from Daily Stoic? What you're saying is Jerry Seinfeld is a thief.

No, I know that Jerry Seinfeld reads Marcus Aurelius's meditations quite close. just through the tick him and 50,000 dickhead influencers. That's true. It's true. Marcus Reilly's on a daily basis. Every morning when you wake up, life is presenting you an opportunity. Marcus Reilly said, is this what you were put here to do to huddle under the covers and be warm?

It means nothing unless you actually apply it and aren't making videos about it. Thank you for delivering that to camera three. You have to, sometimes you got to go. The other one that's big now is 48 laws of power. Yeah, Robert Green. green. Oof. That's wild. Yeah. That's wild. Again, if you, yes, if you, the thing that none of these guys say is

like, you have to have talent. I've been reading 48 laws of power, a friend gave it to me, which is always interesting, like, why did you give that to me? And all I've learned from it is that I've been the mark in all of these different relationships. I've been a victim of everyone's obsession with power. Now you have to decide, do I want to be a dickhead and not trust your friends and all that shit? And everything's a competition and one up, one down, and whatever. So the balance Money, you can't tell me it's not important Nature, for me, spending time in nature is a priority

It levels me, it gets me to breathe deeper There's crazy science on like I don't, you know what's interesting, I agree, I know this to be true And I find that I don't have much of relationship with nature Yeah, well, you grew up in New York City? I grew up, no, I grew up in Philly I grew up outside Philly like in Villanova like I catting every day

you know like yeah so like I was spent a lot of time in nature I would think in L.A because L.A. is what really supercharged this nature component for me was that I never really live somewhere that where

nature was just like so badass and every time I saw the ocean I would take a deep breath and every time I woke up and saw the mountains I was like dude work hard today but the mountain wins like the mountain wins yeah so i just spent a bunch time in hawaii and that's the what's great there is no status in

hawai yeah because no one's cooler than outside i mean that is amazing yeah no it's like no one's better than the ocean and the beach and the hills and oh that's amazing and the lush like so fucking yeah having said that yeah i kind of feel more alive in an urban environment yeah well I think that's, that makes sense. I want to, like, you know what I mean? Like, I understand it. I just am like, I don't know. I almost see nature, and this is probably, in many ways, incorrect.

I almost see it as like a medicine, as like an antibody. Of course it's a medicine. You know, and so living in it all the time, man, look, you can't walk down Avenue B, not that that's where we are. No. Yeah. I don't want people to. You can't hear that and then see a guy wearing a miniskirt and then see the most

beautiful woman of your life and then see a disabled person that you never even knew that could be a disability. I went too far on that one. A disabled. It is so stimulating, dude. It is wild. The smells, the sound. It's insane. And so for me, being a great dad, trying my best to be a great husband, that's a moving target. And making money and connecting with nature, that's the balance that is Michael Costa the puppet. And it's, do you ever nail it? Well, how long can you nail it for, like a day? Yeah, you mail for a day.

My mom texted me something recently that said, you'll never get the balance just right. And I said, it's funny, mom, because I didn't even, I was just saying good morning to you. Why did you respond? No, but it was good for me to hear that from my mom because someone who's raised four kids and been a wife for over 50 years.

It's like, okay, this is just the life thing. The balance is the thing. Yeah. And if you start to feel edgy or unhappy, most likely something is off-kilter. Yeah, I, yeah. What's your balance like? I'm leaning into more work, but not in a results-oriented way.

Like, literally, in just like, that, not to bring up Seinfeld again, but like, the- Well, he crushes, he says some things that are fucking powerful. Yeah, he's a fucking awesome comic, too, but like, but the writing every day for an hour, or whatever, working on your, I'm, I always sort of like, I wrote a lot, I had a new joke show, but I still don't feel like I've been as focus as I can be.

And I'm going to see how more, I can just turn it more into like a, God forbid, I say spiritual practice, but. No, it's important. Yeah. I mean, a spiritual practice can be anything that is spiritually fulfilling. It can be kicking the soccer ball with your daughter,

It can be mowing the lawn. It can be, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't you once post a picture of your phone in a timed, locked cookie jar? Yes. I want you to know, I've never done that. But I thought that was a good idea. And I think about it all the time.

Yeah, I got it from Aziz. Aziz does it. And he told me like, yeah, he sent me like the protocol. And I did it. And it was great. until it was emergency phone call and then there was a horrible accident and I wasn't there for anybody

no but like it's a great but I agree yeah that's what I mean like we all have these I should do it's the same thing of like I'm not going to do the right thing I have to put it Burr has a great joke on as to Hulu where it's like if you had heroin in your house

would you do it maybe I can't have it in my house I don't want to do heroin but if it's in my house so you just assume you're going to do the wrong thing and and play defense against yourself yeah that's not like a weakness that's not shameful that's don't don't put yourself in that situation yeah yeah yeah yeah there's also apps that like block your phone yeah i've never done it freedom i got freedom freedom i used it pretty often yeah but but i but the lock i think about the lock phone it was funny post a lot yeah i think about it

because it was like also it was a few years ahead of like no this is a this is a this is designed to be addictive and we're not even see what's doing to our kids and yeah yeah um costa you're a good man i'm happy for you you have i don't want to not in a condescending way like you've grown and you impress me but like i have seen your essence change thanks man i if it if if i'm not wrong no i believe that and and it's sometimes hard thank you for noticing it's sometimes hard to accept because I wonder if like the competitive edge is dulled but then I also have to think about

how I got here and I made I made distinct decisions on purpose and it's better for the long term. And by the way, I don't think that being a parent is more noble than not. Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying it like you're affirming my values. You're not.

These aren't my values but what I'm saying is I've seen you go from like shallow is an overly simplistic word. Yeah, that's for sure. To, then I'm not even going to finish it. I'm not even going to give you the satisfaction. No, finish it. Less shallow.

Well, what's funny also is. To like, you're saying, I don't, again, I'm not, it's just something, whatever this is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever this is. Okay, okay. Like something. Your fucking business card, I'm just remembering, was so goddamn funny. Yeah.

It was, you'd hand out a business card in 2008, nine, and it was on a boat, you're in a speedo, a woman in a bikini next to you with an empty face and said, your face here or something? Yeah, it was a woman, it was a silhouette of a woman that said, this could be you. Yeah, and now is a father of two who's trying to be more in nature. Well, and I'll tell you what, all you men out there. But by the way, it was hilarious. So I'm not saying, like, it was gross and it was rape. It was like, no, it was hilarious. you you've known comics for so long yeah that you actually see them progress and and i forget

where i first read this but or some one comic told me that you should hate your old material like you if you've grown yeah if you've progressed not hate maybe yeah but you should see it and not do it yeah not do it because you're past that now yeah and so uh i think about that but you know sometimes making a business card and a speedo with a chick in a silhouettes sometimes that's just funny. So that's the Michael Costum. That's the Michael Costa signature move.

And that's the Michael Costa guarantee. That's Michael Costa Guarantee. All right, buddy. It was great talking. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Tennis anyone and Lucky Louser and the other show. And it's not there somewhere.

My man All you have to do is open up your hand Mom'am I never knew she was 18 years old She never knew she was made a girl Thank you.