Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Ramy Youssef

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews Ramy Youssef (#1 Happy Family USA, Ramy, Mountainhead) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks.  ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro 1:17 Television 2:45 911 Joke 4:20 In Love 5:05 Balancing Work & Relationships 13:36 #1 Happy Family USA 21:15 Sponsor: Huel 23:54 Sponsor: Mando 25:50 Ramy Explains Islam to Neal 32:40 Shame 40:40 Forgetfulness 44:07 Sponsor: BetterHelp 45:46 Sponsor: House of Atlas 48:02 Sugar 51:55 Never drank alcohol 53:17 Right ankle 55:49 Goals for his life ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: Get Huel today with this exclusive offer for New Customers of 15% OFF with code NEAL at https://huel.com/NEAL (Minimum $75 purchase).” Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping  with promo code [NEAL] at https://www.shopmando.com !#mandopod This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Get 20% off sitewide + free shipping @HouseOfAtlas with the code [NEAL] at https://houseofatlas.com/NEAL #houseofatlaspod Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, before you watch this thing, hit subscribe, would ya? Hi, it's the Blogs Podcast. My guest today is a buddy of mine over probably 10 years. He got a Golden Globe one time, and he got a Peabody one time, and he had a show on Hulu called Rami, and now he's got a show on Amazon called Number One Happy American Family.

Happy Family USA. I forget sometimes. Go fuck yourself. That's not on me Um the I watched one and a half today and what I learned some valuable which is you can't do double time on Amazon I meaning I wanted to watch three but I couldn't Out of respect sure it's Rami Yusuf everybodyly known as Cat Stevens. I had to do that joke. What? I was wondering how long it was gonna take

for that kind of riffing. I was really happy, it was like right off the bat. Yeah, let's go right into it. I've been sitting on a bunch. Somebody was in the studio earlier and said Rami looks like a Mexican. So we've really undercut him. And then he left.

And then he left. But the comment didn't, the comment lingered. It's in the room. Nice to see you, A. Why are you still, why are you doing television? Meaning you're very good at standup. I didn't even mention your standup specials, which are very good on HBO

Feelings and more feelings literally those two titles How did you get like it feels like a dying thing? Yeah, it feels like a dying genre But it's almost like you don't even notice I Can't explain it. I whenever we will do TV shows. I'm like, they're so hard Really and they're diminishing returns at this point. Yeah. Yeah What's the attraction for you? Um? And the show is very funny by the way, like it's a animated show It's the animations like cool and not it's like stylized and like a little grimy and like yeah and drawn and like yeah It's set in 2001. We wanted it to look that way

You know, I think I just kind of got, I mean, in a pattern with it, in a rhythm with it, and then you kind of keep thinking, oh wait, I wanna try this thing with the format, I wanna try that thing. I'm doing a standup tour now, cause I hadn't done it for like, anytime I was shooting TV, I didn't do any standup.

And then I get back to standup and go, oh man, like I really missed the immediacy of this. You know, when I put out my first special, you posted about it and you actually like put a grid post up and it actually blew my mind. You like posted something on your thing and you were like, this special has great jokes and it made me feel like the special was successful.

That was like all I needed. That was the HBO one? Yeah, the first one. Great. No, like it really meant so much. It really meant needed. That was the HBO one? Yeah, the first one. Great. No, it really meant so much. It really meant a lot to me. It had a great 9-11 joke. It had a great 9-11 joke.

I mean, I love all 9-11 jokes, but this one was, first of all, it was from the Muslim point of view, which you don't always say. And it was like, the premise was like, it was kinda like how successful it was, right? Like from Bin Laden's point of view, or it was like, it was kind of like how successful it was, right? Like from Bin Laden's point of view, or it was like, it was even better

than Bin Laden could have imagined. The premise was just me asking if it worked, because it's like if the whole point was to mess with America, it kind of bred so many kind of racist Islamic point of view. Did 9-11 work? Then we kind of at that point had Trump and he was kind of going at everything constitutional. Which like now it's like whatever, you know.

It's the Muslim ban back on by the way. It never went away and that's kind of, I think the funny part of it is that I've always kind of been like, yeah, you know, and this affected Egypt because you still can't get visas from Egypt to come casually here. It's incredibly hard. So even when my grandmother was dying, her sisters wanted to come see her and it was

impossible. And that was the thing that I didn't realize, like, because you just go Muslim and it's fucked up. Yeah. It was so many aunts and uncles and grandmothers and like, it's not. But that was during Biden, right? So it didn't change. It was just kind of like, oh, there's a backlog,

but then there's no effort to make the backlog. So one person calls it a ban, the other person calls it a backlog. Right. I think that's kind of what you see with a lot of these. A high call volume. We just had a high call volume, that's all. It's all kind of just language, yeah.

And last time I saw you, you were very in love and I don't wanna say what happened happened but what I'm curious about is Your blocks are like sort of Like Not trip I want to get into the emo ones great meaning and I don't they these aren't really emo What I'm curious about is like, how are you? Doing with being a person? Yeah. The person I was very in love with, I got married to.

Did you get married? Oh, great. So that's what happened. So we've been married. Yeah. And that's been, well, some of this, yeah, I kind of like wrote these down and then because they all kind of lead to more emo things, but it being and I'm sure, you know, you know this, but it's so funny you were asking about doing TV because that has become this collision course with my personal life and with my marriage because television never ends. There's no and there's almost no dopamine. It's like you hand in the first script and then they go, that's awesome. Where's the second, where's the third, where's the fourth?

And then you finish writing the season while you're shooting it, then you gotta edit it, then it comes out and then you're kinda tense for a month waiting for the numbers. And then if the numbers are good enough, they're gonna pick up another season and you gotta start that room in a month. It's all really kind of, and so I realized.

It's like having four babies on your own. It's wild. And then if you wanna have babies with her, that's a whole other issue. But that's almost like where I'm getting to with television, where I go, wait, I don't know if I could do another season of TV right now, because I do wanna have a kid. Right. And so you asking just the back to back questions,

that's been what it's, that's what I've been kind of coming to think. So you had never really been in love before, right? I know, I definitely had tried, and I definitely felt, you know. Tried, but in love is binary to me. Had you been in love with in your life? I mean, I actually think I can fall in love quite easily.

But on a love, like I love that, I feel that emotion, and I actually think it's like an emotion to give freely and easily, I don't think. But the trying part is it takes a lot to maintain it. You know, and so it's the same thing as, you know, we love creating artistic stuff, but it's not just because we like it that it works. It's like you have to actually really work at it

and you have to kind of do things that you might not wanna do and kind of change parts of yourself. Or not really change, but I think you, yeah, I think you give into ideals over habits sometimes where you go, okay, well, I believe in the principle. Tell me something, when you say that. I think that something that I kind of have been,

ideally, I wanna have this really robust work life and then this really rich family life. That is what I believe. But then I looked at the pie, especially while making TV, and I go, I'm giving all the energy at work, and then I kinda come home and I'm a dead horse. And then I go, okay, how do I show up

and kinda be like, and I almost said, I'm gonna over caffeinate, you know? And then I'm gonna come home and be like, hey, I'm here, and it's so like wacky, and then I'm kind of on the verge of getting an Adderall prescription just so I can kind of like sit with my wife. To save your marriage.

Just to be there. Yeah. Because I gave everything the whole day and then you kind of find yourself so spent and I feel I find myself so exhausted. And then after three or four days it crashes. And then I'm so, I can't show up to anything. And so I have this desire to kind of,

and I've kind of like, I think some of it when I was younger was definitely people pleasing. Like maybe if I think about when I first met you, I had a way higher people pleasing meter than I do now. You are, but you are a pretty pleasing person in general. Like you're very kind and you're very, you have a good essence. Well, that's, and I think it's part of my nature, but I think I also, there was also the piece of it

that was really like, it was almost frantic. I was almost kind of really feeling, hey, you like me? Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, oh, we never talked about this, but I auditioned for you once. I know, I know. The Fahim Anwar, like me and Fahim on the Nicole.

You and Fahim for Nicole Byer. And I have thoughts about that, like I'm, Fahim's great and I'm glad weahim for Nicole Byer. And I have thoughts about that. Like, Fahim's great and I'm glad we cast him. He's so good. But I ate that though. I froze up, because this is what would happen to me. I would be so like, I hope they like me, that I would just show up and then I would just be like blank.

I couldn't even do anything, you know? And then afterwards Nicole called me and she was like, yo, like what was that about? You know what I mean? Like you're a good improviser. You didn't even improvise. You just said the lines. Like Neil told you you didn't improvise, you didn't even do it. And I was like, yo, like what was that about? You know what I mean? Like you're a good improviser, you didn't even improvise. You just said the lines. Like Neil told you you didn't improvise,

you didn't even do it. And I was like, oh yeah. And so there was this thing that I realized there's the essence part, which is I just like connecting with people. I like the idea that I can make you smile and like people make me smile. I laugh pretty easily.

I find things really funny, except for earlier when Ari called me a Mexican, hurt. But then I kind of would add onto that where I'd go, funny except for earlier when Ari called me a Mexican, hurt. But then I kind of would add onto that where I'd go, wait, why didn't it, wait, why don't like, why didn't it hit the way that I thought it would? There was just some part of it that was like, anxious, like more anxious than anything. And then and so I kind of let go of that a bit, you know, probably since I last saw you. But then I got to this place where I said, okay, man, I gotta even out the energy

where I'm more interested in making sure, like my wife is getting what she needs. And then that's where I go, oh yeah, I'm like dropping the ball, you know, because I'm so spent doing all this other stuff. Did she say something or did you just sense it? She's super, I mean, she's really, I think part of why we got married too is she's really

She's not the ability to lie. She's not a good actor in that sense, but also based on your audition either. Yeah We're still good you were still good you were you were still I was your ass in puppy somebody said that being a movie star Me you have to radiate goodness. Oh, which is a perfect way That's like wood Christmas, but but I you radiate a good goodness in that audition And but no improvisation. So are you gonna do you think there's a way to do it to have a taxing job and a marriage that you're pulling your weight in?

Yeah, I'm an optimist. But I think that's the trying love piece, where you go, okay, I actually am gonna have to. Oh yeah, like a legitimate sacrifice. Yeah, I'm just gonna have to. Yeah. And I find myself now actively turning things down. I used to just be, hey, I'll get on a plane. Hey, I'll be there. I'll do whatever and then um, oh man

I was talking to um Raphael Bob Waksberg who made Bojack and he was just really calmly he was like, oh, yeah There's this job that they wanted me to do but it wasn't gonna be in LA So I just said no and I was like, I couldn't believe yeah, You know, I was like, wow, that's something to aspire to. You know, he really was just plain and simple, yeah, I just let go, something that sounded really cool because it was gonna mess up my flow with my family.

That's wild. And do you, have you reaped the reward yet? I'm, it's kind of happening right now. It's like this week. This is like, it was like a phone call yesterday. You got kind of happening right now. It's this week. This is like, Yeah. There was a phone call yesterday. You got kind of a time. No, it's been this year more.

Yeah. This year started to make those adjustments. Yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting one. Cause it is, it's something I deal with within myself where I'm also good at comedy and like pretty good at relationship. Yeah.

And like I, and I'm like, what do I, I could be, I could be excelling at something right now instead of being here at this thing I don't have any many natural gifts for. And, but you're, but you still have to make a concerted effort to, I'm, I'm still protectionist a little bit of like, no, I have my thing and I have, which is again, no, of course, like I work so hard. But yeah, I let me know how it goes

because I'm like, I have no, I, and do you, are you worried about resenting her for it? I would worry, I'm a resenter. So like I would worry about making a sacrifice and then in the back of my mind being like, well, it's only because she made me. I'm an adult, but people make me do things. No, I see that part, but then I think I saw that in my family and various things, and I just saw how that, people just never let go of stuff.

And it's really interesting too, when you kind of see family dynamics where someone's upset at someone who's like now just a totally like an old person. You go like, dude, this person has no actual power over you. You know, I mean, they're barely getting through themselves. Oh, two adults, or you're talking about? Yeah, two adults. Yeah, I'm watching two adults kind of grow

with that same pattern and all of that. And everyone, you know, like, it's not a critique even on that, because everyone kind of does, hopefully, better than the generation before them. But for me, I don't have that resentment thing, because I fully feel I made this choice, and I made this choice knowing this is how it's gonna go and

It's only trended better, you know for me, even if I've had to change my working style Even if certain things yeah, it's kind of like painful for a bit and then you know, I had a question watching the show What is with Amazon's home page? Okay, if prime had a home page, if it didn't look like a rummage sale, sky's the limit. That's why I called you here. The family, it's a very like, it's 2001, but it could be 1960. Like, first of all, it's a it I don't know if it's based on reality, but like Generations cousins. Yeah all a family of eight living together. Uh, they are six Okay. Yeah, it's yeah, but it feels like it feels it's yeah Yeah, there's so much going on. Look where you are on the cousin leader. Oh be more like Kareem then maybe we get you

new clothes every year You're so sort of evolved. And again, I'm sure it's just whatever artistic license, but you're so evolved. And I wonder at a certain point, did you watch the way your family behaved and was like, there's got to be a better way? Or do you think it's just when they were born and when you were born? I think so much of it is like time. Because if I, you know, I've met, I was lucky to meet both sets of my grandparents,

and then I look at my parents and I go, wow, my parents are so evolved. You know? Got it. What was, where were your grandparents from? Egypt. Everyone's from Egypt. You know, my grandpa grew up in a village,

one of two people who could even read. And then he went on to be an interpreter for the United Nations, Arabic, English, French. Just the biggest, most important global conversation and really wild from a place where no one read. So he kind of pushed the ball forward in this crazy way, career wise. But then there were certain things,

I think emotionally for him, where he was just like, yeah, I don't know how to do that. You know, I kinda came with it. So it's just not. And also, almost what I'm espousing, which is like, yeah, he's an interpreter. It's not his gifts. His gifts are language.

His gifts are language mastery. Like, that's a fuckin' cool thing to be able to do. Huge, and change the whole trajectory of our family, right? Like, brought us to New York. How about your grandmother? Meaning, change the whole trajectory of your family, brought everybody to New York, but again, from one and a half episodes was like, it's a little retrograde. Like he's a little like, just like, you know know with an accent it sounds worse, but like

well, you know, so the the The fun thing for my family watching this show There is definitely a lot of things that are super different But got it because we got a whole room in and this this show is way more Even way more of a room show than anything I'd ever made Yeah, I think we're making like Rami on Hulu. That was very much like, I'm like, OK, I'm, this is stuff I've been thinking about for a really long time. Some of these were like movie premises.

Some of these were whatever. And kind of crafted them into that. This show was very much, yo, what's the funniest idea? Yeah. Hey, let's put your grandpa and your grandpa. We're going to meld. So it was way less of the autobiographical thing. Yeah.

But I think, for me, it's the generational thing. And I think that's why, you know, I'll meet people from Ohio who they're, the way that their grandpa versus their dad versus them, it's the same, it's the same exact emotional pattern. You could just see it as like, okay, grandpa was this way, dad was kind of like a little more this way.

But it's like a Xerox where the copy is less. Like less and now we're more open, but we don't know how to fix anything Yeah Yeah, I got a higher guys to do almost anything My dad can come over and like do all these crazy things my dad's seven years old and is you know God bless it like sort of the store the most fit strongest Yeah, you know knows how to fix things new tech old tech knows how to do it you know that's funny like emotional openness yeah no no trade skills that's why you dress like a Mexican well I come over

you're like hey I'm aspiring to kind of like yeah this is the outfit you start with the outfit you dress for the job you want it looks like, this is the outfit. You start with the outfit. You dress for the job you want. It really looks like I could fix the water problem. Yeah, absolutely. So the end of the first episode, the family basically is like, the title's from basically like, we're just gonna not be Muslim. We will change everything about who we are to fit in. We are number one happy family, USA! And a part of me was like,

Rom, why don't you do that with show business? Number one happy family USA. And a part of me was like, Ram, why don't you do that with show business? Where, meaning like just stop. You're making it, you centralize it. Yeah. And do you feel a debt of, because when you do, when you have like the only Muslim show on television.

Yeah, yeah. Then every fucking Muslim comes up to you and goes like, thank you brother, and da da da. And then do you now feel like, and now you're doing another show that's sort of centered around, the pilot is the day before 9-11. So do you feel like you're making the level

of difficulty higher than you need to? Because that's what I watch, I'm like, dude, just fucking. Well, it's I watch. I'm like, dude, you. I'm just fucking. Well, it's really funny. I just I just shot this movie where like my character's name is Jeff. Great. Jeff Auburn Ozzie. He's just like he's like Italian kind of guy.

Great. And and the director was like, just I think out of just being like, I don't even know. He's just so thoughtful. And he went, you know, his ethnicity is kind of like. And I said yeah Yeah, no, that's great. I'll be Italian. I have no problem. You know, but I think for me. I'm writing about

I'm writing about the stuff that I kind of can't get off my mind Yeah, well, that's what I was gonna ask and then I kind of trust that I try to view it in I try to view it in decades and this was something that like way back. I talked about With Gerard. I'm just kind of thinking about something like decades, you know, and going, okay, yeah, cause you're, there's certain things you're gonna try to work out on a level and then you're probably gonna move on to something else.

You know, and I think for me, there's all these ideas in the tank and all these things that selfishly, when I do it, it's like I'm releasing something and then something else expands. And so, so I really enjoy it. And then I also think, you know, because we made Moe too, right?

And so it was just kind of like, that was a whole other lens on it. And that was that was its, you know, its own, you know, this really different story of like man versus system and kind of sits in a totally different thing. But yeah, I'm kind of just chasing the stuff that I go, oh man, I really, I gotta say it. Because that's the, it's like any, it's sexual identity, it's religious identity, it's any of this stuff. Yeah.

It's like, I guess I'm lucky that I don't, is it an albatross or is it a balloon? Do you know what I mean? Well, because what I like about it is that it fits everything underneath it too. So I I think we were making Rami obviously it's it's it's you you're in this space where you're talking about religion and culture on a certain Level but then you're also talking about dating and you're talking about capitalism You're talking about all these things and so but by the way, do you get credit for it? Do you get credit because there's a lot of jokes in the in in the in the cartoon? Yeah, that are just fucking 2001 jokes. They're just get credit, because there's a lot of jokes in the cartoon that have nothing to do with it.

That are just fucking 2001 jokes. They're just 2001 jokes. Just like Jay-Z and Justin Timberlake and Ron. No, and I think people watch it, and even if they don't know, they know. I don't think anyone will watch something that's just hitting a demographic. It's boring, yeah.

It's gotta have all the other stuff, and I always make sure it does, and I actually kind of lead with that. I'm always I'm always saying okay, what's the problem? Does the character have an insecurity and addiction this that and then now they're just gonna say their problem in Arabic. Guys, I'm not a good time manager. I'm I seem like I would be because I wear glasses and I wear collar shirts that I'd be good with time. I'm not good with time management. I need to do stuff in a hurry, like for instance,

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Mando's got you covered with deodorant plus sweat control. Say goodbye to sweat stains and say hello to long-lasting freshness. Hello. By the way, are there like Muslim patron saints? Meaning like, is there like, I prayed in Catholicism, it's like I prayed to saints. I don't even know them, but I know that they exist. Yeah. Are there like specific Spells I Mean, that's basically what they are. Like you got to pray to st. Pete whatever are there specific or or is it?

Is it all just like the morning one the like the time ones there? Everything is to God. So there's no personification Got it. Then there's like, you know, obviously the The messenger, you know prophet Muhammad, but not really you're not praying to you're only praying to God Okay, and then can you do like one specific? Yeah, you can there's people who have like kind of there are certain they say, oh, say this if someone's ill, say this for all of that is there. Yeah. Good.

Didn't know it. Yeah. I can give you any of them whenever you need. Fantastic. Actually, you came up to me at one point after you had done Ayahuasca and you were like, I saw, you were like, I understand. I saw something. It's not exactly what you believe, but I saw something.

No, it's not exactly what you believe, but I saw something. It's not exactly what anyone believes, but it's something. It's a framework. I actually really made me laugh. Like, it's not that, but like, I get it. I was like, Neil even has like notes on enlightenment. No, I get it. Just a couple things about the light. I'm taking it.

Well, the thing with doing a non You almost have the problem not the problem with this one, but it's fucking you have to keep doing it all day Yeah, you couldn't even do a plot That didn't happen You should do it. Just cut out the prayer. You gotta do five times a day. No, I know so I know This is what I've taken from Islam. Yeah, I try to journal five times a day No way because based somebody said I was like that's the Islam's right We're like, yeah you forget and you go fuck God and then you do it So I've been trying to it's not it's not five. It ends up being like two or three, but like that's amazing

Yeah, but that's that's the I do a checklist. Okay So you are saying that at a certain point, it's just your voice because it's based on what you grew up on. It's based on what you do all day. It's based on what I'm obsessed with. But I also think that for me, I've been thinking about it where I almost,

I have this thing in my head of, even if we're just talking about a topic, which is so much bigger than a topic to me, but let's just say if it's like a topic, I'm like, yeah, there's like one or two more things that are burning in me around it. But then there's also all these other things that I'm really interested in.

And that's also what's fun about getting to just act, because I think most of the acting roles I take, I'm not even playing someone who's, I'm just kind of racially ambiguous and maybe I'm Mexican. Italian, Mexican, but you can just call of racially ambiguous and maybe I'll be a Mexican. Italian, Mexican, but you can just go to any of the darkheads. Any of the racially ambiguous, brown, you know, like just throw me in. Market instability.

In some ways it's like a niche, it's like a niche market, especially in America with the ban. They're limiting your audience. They're literally, you're being shadowbent. But comedy's been legalized. Yeah, no, so that's fucking, it's a given day. It kinda does, yeah. Okay, so let's do like some other,

well, okay, so that's what I was gonna, what I wanted to ask was, is your grandfather's Islam different than your Islam? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because the other thing about Islam, in my understanding, is like, you guys didn't have a Reformation Where's every every religion had a Reformation? I kind of watered it down

Where's you guys are it's still pretty pretty like whoa? Yeah, that's brisk There's an argument that that you know I think a lot of the conversations that I've been inspired by is that we actually had a constricting where It got more it got tighter. It got interesting. It got more and and a lot of that is attributed actually to What some people call kind of like Catholic Islam, you know where it kind of became, you know You have all these colonizing forces that have certain ideas around how people should be, but there's also this very, you know, Islam's really all about cleanliness in certain ways, but it wasn't necessarily as talked about as prudishly

in the same way. And so you have all these people kind of saying, well, hey, can we just kind of go back to, you know, we were the first religion that talked about divorce that was never on the table. We were the first religion. Like, to be cool with it. Yeah. Yeah, which interests it's it's it's the divorce contract The concept of the prenup essentially. Yeah, it's like it's like yeah, there are terms, you know, and that was radical That was you know, I think if you read any of the accounts of the British going in they go these kind of sex-crazed Muslims

You know, they get divorced they go around they do this do this, they do that, they make all these agreements, and then they have sex. You know, it's like that kind of stuff. And so you kind of, what we're actually experiencing is, and that's the whole thing with like Wahhabism, if you read about any of that, tighter than it was. And so we kind of had that. And then now, so yeah, if I look at what's

going on with my grandfather and a lot of the conversations. It seems like a tough religion to change. Like that seems like. And then now, so yeah, if I look at what's going on with my grandfather and a lot of the conversations. It seems like a tough religion to change. Like that seems like, boy, that, I mean, if you want to look at Sunni's and Shia's, it's like, well, this is a pretty minor disagreement from what I can, fellas from the outside, it seems minor, like somebody's nephew, I think it comes down to. But, so, so I wish you luck with getting it looser. You know, my whole thing is just getting to the core, getting to

the core of what it is. And also, you know, what's interesting, you know, if I think about my grandpa and myself or my friends, there is, you know, there's some confusion, but there is a benefit to being in America, because it's kind of, you could just kind of look at it without the structure of everyone around you telling you it in a certain way, where you don't know, wait, is this cultural

or is this actually what's in the faith? And so there's a lot of people, especially people who find Islam in America, and Islam's been in America for a really long time, they have a really cool, you know, view of it that I think is very love-centered. So there's no, does it affect your, because again from the outside in it's like it's so misogynist and homophobic and all that stuff, which seems like, I don't even know if it's

true and it also seems to run counter to who you are. Yeah, no, I mean I don't, look I think cultures in general can be, I mean I think people look here and they go, yeah you look at America like super misogynist, super that look I think cultures in general can be I mean, I think yeah Yeah, I think that tends to be again kind of where People and culture are at as opposed to where faith has been like my you know, pretty deep understanding. Yeah Yeah. All right. Let's do some blocks Shame. I like that one. Yeah. Talk to me. You know, I think it was, there's this,

buddy of mine kind of said this to me and maybe it's just a quote, but you know, about the difference between guilt and shame. You know, guilt is, hey, I think I'm doing something wrong. Shame is, I am wrong. And I started really thinking about it as, guilt is healthy and it's helpful. It's a check engine light. Shame is I actually think I am, you know,

anything I don't like about myself, anything I don't do well, anytime, you know, any of the things, super careless, super out of it, super, you know, whatever it is, and just kind of feeling, oh, that's just who I am. And I'm just like, damn to that, because that's who I am. That's a big, that's where being married's been helpful, because you kind of have someone checking you on

how you're interpreting certain things. And how you're doing things. What sort of stuff do you take? Is there a category that you take especially hard? Or is it just well, that's the problem with religion And this is every religion she's like it is A it is a guilt mechanism, it's like kind of set up to be a guilt mechanism right now I mean my friend in me or Suleymane has this great quote He actually he actually did poetry on the Chappelle records.

He's like a really great poem, like, you know, poet. And he had this great analogy where he basically said, you know, faith is like an orange. You know, the rules and the, you know, is the orange peel. And the soul and the spirit of it is the orange itself. And so the orange can't survive without the peel, but you can't just eat the peel.

And that really stuck with me. I would argue that the orange can survive without the peel. On the tree? In the elements? Well, again, it's a metaphor. So what I'm saying is... It's how I feel about... I was gonna say, I believe in a central creation force. Sure. It doesn't need a peel I don't need like a

outfit and a building and a and an incantation because you You've created a system for yourself where you're journaling because you that's your appeal, right? So you're kind of you believe in creating your own peel, but you have one, you know, you're not yes But so you you have to have one, know, in whether it's a literal orange or like what we're talking about. And so the problem with religion right now is it's all Peel and people are just eating the peel.

And it's like the oranges have just been left over there. And so I think we're just so far from how, you know, it historically inspired renaissance and it's been this like thing that actually was a really beautiful thing in, you know, in taking societies from wanderers to agricultural powerhouses. There's a level of thing that people need.

It's really hard for us to understand the need for it too when we're in a super kind of individualized society where everything's on demand. You don't really need to rely on people in the same way right now. And once you are in situations where you do, you start to realize, man, we kinda need a code. And that's just, you know, and so we're just,

we're far from being able to, you know, have as much of a thirst, I think, for it in a certain way. And I'm really sympathetic to that. And I see that in my own self, where I kinda realize, oh, you know, I have to check myself on, I'm just kinda doing my own thing, or I'm not really, you know, I'm not really, and I think a lot of my guilt or a lot of my shame comes around just like my own

Waste compared to what's happening in the rest of the world where I kind of like look at the things that are just driving Me nuts, and it's kind of your own waste Yeah, my own just kind of whether it's wasting money wasting food throwing things out Whatever all these things that I kind of grew up with hey, there's people going you know whatever that No, I'm with you not let go of I I'm starting to let go yeah I just it's yeah meaning it's so overwhelming and it's so like we're so trapped like Gia Tolentino has written she's a writer yeah but she wrote a really great essay about like trying not to shop at Amazon. And just the level of A, difficulty, and B, it's just a different kind of waste.

Then it becomes like more air pollution because it's less streamlined and there's more box. And just like we're trapped by these, I mean in some ways we could unplug from it if we focused on our own austerity, which is where another big religious tenant of like just do have want less. It's hard. It's hard.

Nothing's designed for us to do that. And also I could literally never buy another thing for the rest of my life, and climate change is still coming. Yeah, yeah. So then, which I'm like, so I'm gonna get more shit. Like, I'm not saying that, but it is a matter of like, what am I beating myself up for? Well, that's where, and I think that is,

that's the core thing around the shame and the guilt piece, which is basically, I think I take it in this shame place where I basically can, I can kind of convince myself that I am like a pretty big leader of climate destruction. Like I could get to that place where I just can really look at myself and go, oh man, I am- You in particular.

I mean, particular, which is probably, it's a form of its own egotism. But it's like, I go, oh my God particular which is probably so this form of its own. Yeah, you go to them Yeah, but it's like I go. Oh my god. This is like I what am I doing? You know and I'll look at my house and I'll look at we got a new sconce and I start going nuts I go. Yeah, what am I doing? Yeah, I like I don't want anyone to know how much that sconce cost Yeah, yeah, that would you know, yeah, I have my yeah, why not? Give it a chariot. Yes, you know what I mean? Or like what I had that though. I mean, I was on tour when, you know, the the latest,

everything latest going on in Gaza. And I couldn't I put the whole tour up to donate to Gaza. I couldn't take a dollar. And part of it was wanting to help Gaza. But the other part was what you just said was like, I just can't. I don't this feels insane. I don't know. Yeah. You're making money. Like, I actually don't know.

You know what I mean? And that's my own. I don't say. Yeah, you're making money. Like I actually don't know you know what I mean, and and that's my own It's I don't say that I did that to like be I'm analyzing. What that means. It's I you know what I mean? Yeah, I've I've gotten to a place of like I'm trying to minimize my own hypocrisy within myself. Yes, like I don't I don't know like if I give to charity It's like I just just wanna be able to function. I wanna be able to look at myself in the mirror a little bit. Yeah.

But the truth is, none of it's justifiable. No sconce is justifiable. No. And then you just go, I can't, it's an argument, it's never-ending and you're not so so Wouldn't God want you to have mercy on yourself. Yes, and that's where That's the thing I got to work on Yeah

Cuz I cuz that that in and of itself can be like whatever you want to call it a trick of the devil to kind of Just take you over this way like you can kind of you can almost lose God's mercy Going down this rabbit hole punishing yourself for what you think God wants you to do. It's the exact point you just made. And then it goes, Whoa, Hey, so that's, and that's the difference between guilt and shame. So guilt just tells you, just look at this, like maybe you don't need a sconce in every room.

Yeah. What's the, okay. But to use the code, to use the orange thing. Yeah. What is the appeal in this scenario? Like what is the proper budget for a scout? Honestly, that's where, that's how you- It's interesting, we have laws on this too,

where there's actually like a formula of how much percentage of what you make that you donate. Yeah. And it's not, there's no, there's nothing that says you shouldn't have nice things, right? It's not, it's like we're on earth. We are supposed to enjoy it. We're not here to just be kind of self-flagellating and kind of, you know, so there are things.

I think this is just some of my personal stuff where I, that's like my own, I think I wrote down forgetfulness as a block, but that's my own thing where I think I'll get into that, you know, and then I kind of forget the main tenant anyway, or the main thing. Well, what do you think the main tenant is? And I say that as I'm not a religious scholar by any means, but I'm like, what is the,

because it, when you even, at some, it's taken me a while to get to like, no, we're supposed to enjoy it or even that, enjoy it or I'm just trying not to be an ingrate at my good fortune. Yeah, I mean I think it's love. I mean I think if you put something nice in your house, it's because you love where you live and you love where your family is

and you want them to love it and you want it to be lovely and it's easier to be in a loving environment when you're not under harsh fluorescence, right? So fine. But then there's a certain cutoff where it's like that then at a certain point it becomes this is orange peel, you know, what factor of it is greed is opulence. So it's like, that's why there's things built into the faith of this is what you're going to donate to, you know, people who are needy.

Anytime we have a big holiday Ramadan, eat whatever it is, you're feeding people to, you know, people who are needy. Anytime we have a big holiday, Ramadan, eat, whatever it is, you're feeding people. You're always feeding poor people. When you're fasting Ramadan, if a day you can't fast, you give people food. It's as if you fasted. So it's a very, it's very much about being reciprocal. And I was reading something, um, I don't remember what, and I, I'm ashamed, I don't remember who wrote it, but they were kind of pitching how to create

some new economic models in America and kind of putting a certain neighborhood on like a borrowing economy, where basically the guy makes this genius point. He goes, you have 12 houses on a block. You really only need one lawnmower. Why does everyone have a lawnmower? And that to me is the same tenant that I was just talking that, to me, is the same tenant

that I was just talking about. It's the same thing. And it just stretches to how we view ourselves in community and having a code together. Yeah. That's the part of me hopes the tariffs will make people go, I don't need any of it. I will share a lawn mower, or I'll rent one or or like less. Oh shit, dude, MAGA

Yeah, MAGA MAGA, huh? You gotta get with this band And so the thing with shame is so shame is you just believe yeah you believe that have you but how have you How have you gotten better at it or with it? You just believe, yeah, you believe that you're. But how have you gotten better at it, or with it? I'll just sit and be stressed out about stuff, and then it makes me so not present. And then this is where, in my relationship, my wife will be like, dude, what are you stressed out about?

And I'll tell her all the stuff that I'm stressed out, and she's like, okay, so can you stop being in your little fantasy land of just hating yourself and doing all this stuff, because I would like to Actually just have fun with you. Yeah. Yeah Could you maybe like stop just doing that so they could actually hang out and then you start to realize oh This is really actually very selfish behavior. This is not you know, this is not you know, and and and and There's no point, you know, it's like you're eating yourself alive. So that's the line. So the guilt line just goes, OK, let me just make sure this is under control. Then the shame part, we kind of it spirals out and then you're kind of just.

Naval gazing or whatever you want to call it. And but it then becomes very hurtful, I think, to people around you. Yeah, it's also been and it's also like, when are you just a lazy person? Yeah, just it's yeah, it's it's hard. It's also been in this also like, when are you just a lazy person? Yeah, just it's yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard This show is sponsored by better help I think they advertise every episode now because uh, they know that you guys need help a lot of men listen this podcast and uh, there's Men, especially need to see therapists not just because your girl told you to or some girl on the street was like you need therapy You're your mom or your sister guys, don't talk about our feelings enough.

We have them. We have feelings besides anger, which is a big one, but we have other ones. So, you know, deal with the why you're angry, just get to your issues, why you're sad, why you feel lonely, whatever, all your stuff. Go in, talk to somebody, a therapist will probably be the most helpful. I know in my experience that's what happened. And then I could actually talk to guys more about it. Basically, like, I felt like I was the first one of my friends to go to therapy. And then I could, like, bring therapy talk to the male friendship group. You don't have to, like, qualify for therapy. Like like I think I'm officially allowed to go to therapy. You can go. Just try it out once. Try better help. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online

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Go. I mean, dude, I, this year I was off sugar for six months. And then... Bread? Like how specific? It was really, no, white sugar processed sugar. Yeah, yeah, got it. Because I was a candy addict. And then it was my birthday. And they got me a cake.

But my wife was like, oh, I don't think Rami's gonna have the cake because he's just been really good, it's no sugar thing. And I was like, dude, it's my birthday. It's like, come on, I gotta have a piece of cake. I have a piece of cake. God damn it. Best piece of cake I've ever had in my life.

Since it's just opened the flood gates. Like, I mean, just like, if I'm feeling tired, if I'm feeling anxious, I'm feeling whatever. The reason I stopped in the beginning was because I live in New York. And so I go to the bodega and what they do there is they open up the the gushers and the fruit by the foots like they get the big box from Costco and they'll sell you individual by the singles. Yeah, Lucy's go get a Lucy got fruit punch, a Lucy fruit by the foot, you know,

strawberry tie dye. And then I kept leaving my house. I go, I get our core. I'm just going to get to it's two dollars, you know, to get a dollar each. You know, they're really making a killing on this box.

And then I go home, eat it and be like, that wasn't enough. And then I convinced myself that actually steps in. I'm getting my steps in I see this the guy who likes to rationalize things himself. Yep. Go ahead It's just never-ending and and the sugar is so representative of just I Can get I just am this little sugars feel like incredible. It's amazing. It's incredible. I do one day a week. Wow.

All Sunday. Wow. I almost don't eat normal food. You're just eating. Cake, ice cream, ice cream cones, cookies. I might try that. Try it. The one day a week.

Yeah. Because I was good for this, I've been telling you six months and I didn't even want it. I got to a point where I killed it and I read this book about biomes. It was just like, I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a biome. I'm going to be a good for this I'm telling you six months and I didn't even want it I I got to a point where I killed it and I read this book about Biomes it was just like let it ride out for three weeks and yeah, you kill it and I had that piece of cake

But part of me yeah, maybe maybe it is that just what happens is Monday you're Jonesing I do it Sunday. So and then Monday I'm Jones and to it just and then by Thursday I'm straight but it really I feel out of like I'm I just and it's and then Monday I'm Jones and Tuesday, and then by Thursday I'm straight. But it really, I feel out of, like I just, and it's never enough, like I eat a whole. Well you, to me there's no craving, I mean it's like candy and sex, or like the cravings I have, because I'm not much of a drug person that like,

I need to get, and if you eat it, you'll want it. Do it. There's no getting around it. And I get a whole, you'll want it you do it. There's no there's no getting around it I and and I get a whole and I don't know this is something my wife it could she there could be a sweet treat in the pantry She won't touch it. She'd be like, I know just like you're like house. Yes. It's a wrap yeah, like even from the morning and there's the rapid Greek story of like

The sirens and whatever and at one point the guys like we can go past them tie me to the mast I cannot resist them tie me to the mast. That's how I feel with sugar Like I can't have sugar in my house. Yeah, yeah in my house. No, I I'm can't be trusted and you also have to Know that about yourself. Yeah and not like, nah, I'm pretty different. Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm in a new phase. There are no new phases.

There's no new phases. It's just you've learned what your system is to kind of deal with the thing. Yeah, like now that I, yeah. I'm gonna do this. What am I, how am I gonna handle this? You know, I think I knew this about myself since I was a kid, so I've never touched alcohol.

I never even tried it, because I knew I would never stop. Really? I could feel it, I just knew. Interesting. I knew, I said, oh man, that, because I liked how the bottles looked. I think alcohol bottles are super artistic.

They don't taste like that though. I know, but they, I could get I know but they I know they're great I could get into just like holding the I would argue the aesthetic Appeal is a testament to how bad it tastes. Mmm, like they got a kind of wouldn't be necessary Yeah, it's like makeup. Yeah for how absolutely makeup cocaine comes in a fucking shit in a shitty bag You don't need a It's like here's the bag for rubber that we normally put tiny rubber bands in here Yeah, that's a Chinese restaurant with the shit font yeah service and you know, this is gonna be wonderful. Yeah, they're not first

ship font and service and you know this is gonna be wonderful yeah they're not first and so you've never been tempted to drink like as an adult no no it's it's not forbid it yeah yeah yeah it's such a but you know it's such a man that's yeah yeah that's I I don't like it that much. So. Yeah. And also my dad was an alcoholic, so I'm just like, no, I don't think. Why? This isn't gonna help. Yeah. All right, you have your right ankle, which I like. No one's ever had that on here.

Dude, it's like, it's so, I never, I wrote it cause I was, I mean, and it was so interesting. I wrote it this morning and I sent it because I was, I mean, and it was so interesting. I wrote it this morning and I sent it, and then I literally twisted my left ankle like two hours later. I was on the sidewalk, I stepped into a pothole, and I just literally fell and like twisted my thing,

and I just was icing it at the hotel. And I said, what did I even bring into my life? But I never rehabbed my ankle properly. What happened to it? I basically, so this is like, I just have this terrible relationship with exercise. And it makes me feel so good when I do it. And I can be super streaky and do it.

And then I just stop one day, cause I have some reason and I'm so off, you know? And so I kind of came back out of nowhere during COVID, you know, whatever, all sitting around, I still go out and play basketball. I go out and I just start playing as if I've been playing, you know, tore three ligaments in my ankle. I never rehabbed it properly.

Adult sports injuries are so funny to me. Dude, literally just like. Yeah, like just do something else. To get on an elliptical, just do something. I mean, I guess you can hurt yourself with that. I'm only elliptical now. Yeah, I mean, but like that, and I never rehabbed it properly.

Did you scream? I didn't, no, I was just like, oh, this isn't good. Like I knew right away. I was like, something bad just happened. And then I kinda just, you know, I had the brace, but I didn't do now You have like the wheel I know it was just um the big fat brace that you kind of put on it And I was kind of hobbling around mm-hmm, and then there was rehab. I was supposed to do that. I never did and

It's just this was five years ago, and it still hurts But like I haven't, like I should just go. Go take, just go have it looked at. And I don't. Yeah. And so it's just this like thing with taking care of my body. And this will happen with my teeth too,

where I'm like, I'll have just like a tooth pain and I'll just take some Advil and I'll floss it. And then I'll just kind of be like, I hope this goes away. You know, Hassan Minaj doesn't brush his teeth some nights. He told me on here. It'll happen five to seven days out of the month. Fuck. That's the creepiest thing anyone's ever said on this podcast.

He also seems so clean and polished. Like, I couldn't imagine that you can brush his teeth. It's a shock. I may never get over it. No, I... Yeah. What are your... What are your goals for yourself? Not artistically, like what do you want from your life? I want more presence.

Like I wanna be able to be less plan-y and less, you know, cause I think it's such a career thing to be like, okay, this year I wanna try and do, finish writing this, do this, do whatever, whatever. And I kind of just want to actually have as much time as I can where I'm actually just really present and really there. What is that though?

Meaning when I hear about presence, there's an amount of presence that a person can have that they become like, it's like you ever be in a long car ride with somebody who doesn't talk and you're like yo so there's somebody who's so present that they're like just fucking eye contact and like nodding and just like you gotta help me so i'm still wondering what is the sweet spot between like keeping the ball going? Yeah. And I don't know, like how much thought is too much or you know what I mean? How much empathy, how much of like your brain telling you to say something? You know, I stand up in such a good teacher for me analogy wise all the time and I have

this thing where I actually can go on stage and I can have bullet points of what I know what oh dude your thing I get the every day I think about your thing where you talk about how the joke is the best when you say it the first three times and I think that's present I think about it every time I go out to do step I think about you and saying that but there's this thing I have so much fun doing where I have the stuff I kind of written down but then there's these moments where I really look out at the crowd and I'm really just ready to go wherever So it's actually I'm a tent but is that right? I'm ready to dance that might go anyway I'm in stuff. No, I well it is but I think there's a way to do it. I've seen people do it

In real life where they're just kind of going with the waves of wherever things are going. You know, and there are people who I, that I know, the couple friends I grew up with who are really good at this. And what it tends to be is it is a few people I know who are very, a friend of mine is a mother, another friend of mine is a doctor, another friend, you know, but they seem to be really settled with the choice and like the role that they have in their life.

And then when you hang with them, it's like there's no floating checklist behind them. They're just kind of like, what's up? Yeah. Yeah, you wanna go get that? You wanna go to the bookstore? Let's go to the bookstore. And it's not just cause you're there.

Like, you know that they kind of have their shit together where it's like, this is the time where I deal with all the hectic post-it notes and the flying darts, and then now I'm here. There's a few people in my life who have that. My wife is really good at doing it. And then you kind of go, oh, whoa, yeah, I want to be like that, because it's really,

I don't want to be, you know what I mean? Yeah, I know. I don't want to be, sometimes I'm scheming. Like I'm like, ooh, and then I can like write that, then I can do this, then I can kind of like, you know, it's like, hey, can I just like, it's either the shame spiral stuff, or it's like, oh, I could start a business.

And it's like, I want to turn off the survival instinct and just kind of chill, you know? Yeah, but that's the, again, what's a personality? But some of it is like it's so so funny My friends came to Cairo for my wedding and they were just in this like whole city and they oh we get you Is it? 80 city it is Yeah, it's I mean that's what it looks pretty like it's just I mean, and that's why I love New York

Yeah, I mean I was I was you like ever live in Cairo? No, I never did, but I swear it's just in my DNA. This is how my dad moves. My dad moves like, my dad was a tour guide in Cairo. So my dad moves like a dude in Cairo, and I move like a dude in Cairo. Even when I was in school, I could never sit still. I mean, I had to go in the hallway, I had to go to the bathroom, I had to walk around,

I didn't vent some reason. I won student council so that I could then find reasons to just move around and be, oh, I have to go to the bathroom, I had to walk around, I had to invent some reason. I won student council so that I could then find reasons to just move around and be, oh, I have to go do something for student council. Like whatever it is, just to keep moving. And people would always go, dude, you always have like your bag, like you're going somewhere.

Like, do you go to the school? You know, one of those. It was like one of those. And I think that's something that is really, it is, I love it. I love that kinetic thing. And it's a big part of my creative life. But when it's always happening, then you hit these,

that's then when I hit like the sugar wall or the shame wall, because it's either, it almost feels like there always has to be turbulence. You know? Yeah, I don't know. It is a bit like, I think what makes comedians great and also annoying is like, it feels like prepared. Do you know what I mean?

Like it feels like a monologue, it feels like a prepared monologue even if it's not. It's just like a concern or a thing I'm thinking about. And then it comes out with too much like force for a conversation. But at the same time it's like what makes comedians funny. Why my brain, yeah my brain, it's kind of 80% based. Yeah I would just say like don't go too hard with presence because you end up just being like a new age goofball. Honestly it it's just like, at one point,

and then you're just contributing nothing. I mean, again, it's like, what's a personality? What is a worthwhile personality? Dude, the amount of times I look back on something, like, I just be like, man, I was so annoying. Just playing back something going, oh my God. I regret almost everything I've so annoying. He's playing back something going, oh my God. I regret almost everything I've ever done. I mean, kind of.

Like I can't watch, if I do one of these, I'll like, not mine, but like if I'm on TV, like the first time I watch it, I watch it on mute. Cause I'm like, I'm not just gonna, it's too weird to begin with. And I'm like, let me ease into what I did. Yeah, let me see if on mute I'm ashamed Then we'll turn it up a little bit and then listen and then we'll go full volume and be like, okay No, it's good. It's good cuz I cuz the shame

But again, it's and also what are morals other than just like a shame trigger that we need them. But yeah, at a certain point you're trapped. In some ways it's we're all like, it's like Schindler's List where it's like, yeah, we're doing stuff, but like it's still a millions of people died. Like we could have done more. Schindler's, it's a conclusion.. Like, we could have done more. Yeah.

Schindler, it's a conclusion. No, no, yeah. It's like, I could have done more. I could have done more. Yeah, it's like, I could have recycled more. Yes, yeah. And is that, am I ruining life? Are you ruining life by having a moral code?

Well, it's interesting, because you kind of, you did it earlier when I was saying something and you kind of said, but it isn't, don't you believe that God has mercy? Right? Yeah. And so I think that there are- And the truth is, I don't know. This is one of these things of like, I don't, I don't know what the appeal of these religions say. I don't know. That is a hundred percent like the opening line is in the name of God, the most gracious most merciful right right and then it's interesting because I do think that But all the things he's has mercy it has mercy on me for more rules. I was of his I was trying to follow

But you know, but it's I mean on a level But I also think that part of that mercy is like unconditional love There is this love right conditional love and I do think that we are, you know, I think that even the thing we were talking about with thinking about, you know, creating art on the scale of 10 years, I think if you look at the way that a practice sits for a generation, you kind of say,

some generations need a bit more tightening of, hey, like being super strict on this. And if some generations need a bit more tightening of, hey, like being super strict on this. And if some generations need, okay, you guys are a little like, you've been eating a lot of orange peel and you need to really look at this like mercy love part. And I think that that's where the question you asked me about, my grandfather's Islam and my Islam,

it's not that they're different, it's just a bit like, what piece are we zoning in on? What piece is this? Do you think it's calibrated well at all? Cause I would, no, no, no, we are. Nothing is calibrated right now, anywhere. No one's calibrating anything, right? Hollywood's calibrating nothing, right?

I mean, it's even, this is the question. It's like, okay, I, you know, is religion good as it was bad? Is Hollywood good? Cause on one level I could look and say, all that's happening is there's a bunch of people getting raped, there's a bunch of pedophiles, there's a bunch of greed, there's a bunch of this,

there's a bunch of that, but then you have people go, no, but dude, I just worked on a movie set where I was so creatively satisfied, right? So these things all have- Yeah, that's how it's not even in the, shouldn't even be in the conversation. The what? As like, as a righteousness vehicle.

No, it's not about righteousness, it's more about like the way that people get together, right, and I so think every system right now is not calibrated and completely out of whack, and there is this, there's an inherent kind of strict meanness from all sides, whether it's this person being super racist, or this person kind of basically saying, oh, I heard this one person one time say something

that's out of line of like what the Moral code is and yeah, you know canceled whatever it is. All of it is kind of just this, you know, very Unfluid Conversation and yeah, it's extreme permissibility and extreme Impermissibility. Yeah, like it's all stupid. Everything's colliding Yeah, so yeah the idea when do you think it was calibrated? Like when you're talking about your grandfather? Oh, I don't know that it was calibrated in his area either.

I mean, and I don't know, I think that there are probably periods of calibration that occur, you know, in small bursts or certain things that are really beautiful. But I think society is just constantly pushing itself this way and that way. I think it's, like I was driving on the way over here thinking about you and thinking about morality and just being like if you're not it's just

If I'm recycling and not great to my girlfriend. Yeah, what don't bother recycling? Yeah, or break up with my girlfriend And it's it is yeah. Wow. It is one of the other you can't you can't do both Wow Yeah, wow. It is one or the other. You can't do both. Wow. Oh. Oh. Hey, it was fucking great to hang out. Oh, dude.

Great catching up, buddy. So much fun, man. It was great to do. Thanks for having me. Congrats on the shows and everything. The shows are really funny. Thank you, man. Thank you. You're supposed to have it, supposed to have it real, my man All you have to do is open, open up your hand, my man