Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Robert Smigel

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Robert Smigel (SNL, Conan, TV Funhouse, Dana Carvey Show & more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Triumph the Insult Comic Dog 2:46 Robert Smigel intro 4:04 William Shatner 5:22 Competition at SNL 19:39 Writing for Seinfeld at SNL 23:45 Conan 29:58 Sponsor: Mando 31:42 Raising a Kid with Autism 37:58 Temper 43:25 Worry 47:51 Balancing Ambition & Ethics ---------------------------------------------------------- Watch Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's 'Let's Make a Poop': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgC7uG7viMk Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsor: Visit https://shopmando.com & use promo code NEAL for $5 off your Mando starter pack. Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, hi Neil Brennan blocks podcast my guest today is one of the comedy poobas Robert Spiegel I'll tell you more about him In his but he brought his friend Triumph the insult comic dog who I didn't realize was available for podcasts, but here is triumph Ladies and gentlemen, are you kidding me? I had to come. I mean, look at this opportunity. I'm here with Neil. Then the man behind Chappelle, I mean, way behind. I mean, like, seriously, he's like way up in the front,

you know, Kevin Hart and Chris Rock and you know Burr you're all the way Far in the back like trying to get a peek of him behind Bert Kreischer, right? It's entirely true. Okay. Now, let me I just did some research here. Yeah, it's not all bad I just trying to find some categories. You're not behind Chappelle. Okay success. No, that's him looks talent Some categories you're not behind. Chappelle case success. No, that's him. Looks talent. Scroll scrolling. Oh, here we go. Sensitivity to the transgender

community. I mean, who isn't really? No, it's great. And you're doing this show. Uh, what's this all about? It's blocks. What's that? Yeah.

It's like a pot. It's based on a Netflix special. I did where I talk about things to make me feel like something's wrong with me. Right. Yes. The, the trauma. Oh, the trauma. How is your dick?

You have balls hanging from them. Fuck you then. And you're a drama. How's your dick? You have balls hanging from them? Mm-hmm. Fuck you then and your drama! I'm going to end with a little song. Great. When you're out of jokes, may I suggest Talk about how you're depressed you won't be sad another day when the Emmys and blowjobs come your way triumph everybody a dream fulfilled For you to poop on.

Hi, it's the official Box Podcast, Triumph Left. My guest today is, as I called him in the original answer, one of the poobas. If you like sketches, I'm going to put this guy in the top three dead or alive in terms of just quality fucking Sketches over the last 30 40 years 40 is a long time in it Writer a big writer at SNL the head writer the original Conan O'Brien the good version before Chris Rock stole all the staff Dana Carvey show triumph theumph, the Insel comic dog, TV fun house, nine to too many stars. Can I continue?

Yeah. Chappelle calls this the eulogy by the way. Eulogy. Yeah. Yeah, sure. But just a fucking incredible Transylvania. He wrote two hotel Transylvanians. I realized on the way over here, Leo, the delightful Netflix movie with Adam Sandler and Bill Burr that came out.

Yep. Your kids know about it. Yep. Robert Smygle, ladies and gentlemen, Robert Smygle. Okay. You've got blocks, but I want to talk generally before. Well, you were trying to make fun of me in a very legitimate way, in a way that I totally agree with.

So that's so control. No, I know. He's got, well, that's what I, very cynical. You always have struck me as like not a dark guy, but you write fucking the meanest, funniest shit on the planet. Like consistently he was, Michael wrote the, um, from 1988, the, uh, William Shatner sketch where he told Star Trek he's and it like it fractured his relationship briefly oh and he repaired it he made it come back yeah don't worry about him you want to space

yeah he's great Had a great he had a I like what he thought about when he got back from space. Did you read what it was like death? Yeah Jeff well But what was so amazing was that he wanted to pour his heart out having gone through this amazing experience And Jeff Bezos just wanted he didn't want to hear it. He's just like. Oh my God. Come here. I want one. Showboating, he's got a big cowboy hat out,

opening a bottle of champagne and William Shatner. No, you don't understand, what you've done. That's so funny. You've simulated the absence of reality. Alright, let's get into some blocks. Because some of these are a contradiction. Okay. Well, all right, this isn't a contradiction.

Competitive people situations, or slash situations make you nuts. Now, I believe you. How does that manifest on a comedy writing stuff? Because that seems like, SNL is especially competitive. SNL is usually a lot of nice people thrown together who have somewhat of large egos

because they've been the funniest person in their group and now they're all thrown together and it has this inherent contradiction that it's supposed to be collaborative and nurturing on the one hand, but everybody's pitted against each other on the other hand. And, um, yeah, that was the place where there were people that, yeah, that kind of define themselves through how they responded to that environment. Define themselves in a way of like, I'm great because

I want that or not, because they're supportive or they're competitive. Like there's a writer who told me this was not in my era. Like when I was there in the late eighties and early nineties, you were always kind of there though. No, that I left and I came back and did cartoons for 11 years, which was your famous sketches or the Bears There's way too many to list and they really are do you have I have I've got all the time in the world

Okay, car senio and all the Carson's and you just do this you go And they they go crazy it's just wild weird stuff My god not gonna phone it in tonight When steve martin sang that song and steve martin's holiday wish The christmas wish and the reagan is the mastermind and I just feel like an asshole. Fuck You wrote reagan is the mastermind. Well, it was nice meeting you. Come on lisa. Come on Bye bye Well, it was nice meeting you. Come on, Lacey. Come on. Bye-bye. Back to work!

Well, it was my idea and I... Yeah, that's all. When I say I wrote... I know you mean. You know how that is. People helped you. Yeah. Jim Downey... 80% of the...

It premises 80%. The operative joke is always... Incredible. Super important. Yeah. But, you know, I would, clucking chicken is my favorite probably. That was a mascot.

I love mascots as you can see. Yeah. It was a chicken who represented a fast food chain who's always got a big smile on his face. And the Phil Hartman asked him, why is your chicken so chickalicious or whatever? And then he explains it's because I'm flame broiled and then he takes you through the whole process, starting with his head being

chopped off. Then I'm blocked and gutted. My intestines are pulled out. Trust me, you don't want them. What I remember about that sketch is when the audience realizes what's happening, the laughs are like, oh, and then they're like kind of thrilled by it. Yes. Because it's so fucking brutal. Hear that sizzle? That's me.

550 degrees. Good thing I'm dead or yeah-wee. Yeah, but satisfying because like everybody Nobody thought to write about it or I say it but it was always insane That there were mascots for Fast-food places that were the thing that's being eaten. There were the giant smile on his face reassuring. Yeah. Yep Plucked and gunted and ready to go. Yep. At your service. Yes.

Uh, so I would say you were very dominant. I'm whatever you don't, you don't like the right. You don't use words. I got fine. I mean, other people use that about people who are doing, I don't say it as a negative way. It's like, I mean, like you're so good at sketches. And I say that somebody who knows about sketches, like, I once thought of a sketch thinking about what you would do. I swear to God, like, I thought of it. It was like, what would Smigel and where? So, uh,

I had my own heroes at the show. Who were your heroes? Well, Jack Handy to me is in a class by himself. Yeah, he's in the top. Because he, I was really good in a class by himself. Yeah, he's in the top. Because he, I was really good and I wrote a lot of things, but I would say a fair amount of them, somebody else potentially could have come up with, in my opinion. Whereas Jack Handy, like, I just, he had so many ideas that you just can't imagine anyone else in the world.

You don't even know how he got there. Exactly. How the fuck did you get there? Yeah. Even his New Yorker pieces, which should be boring are still like, wow. His originality really stands out. And then Jim Downey is just as skilled and as funny as anybody I've ever met. Yeah. So those. Yeah, so those yeah

I was actually though they'd be on my list as well Okay, so what do you so but competitive people make you nuts and you that's sort of a way a place where like Yeah, so what I was gonna say was I remember an interview seeing an interview with a writer from like a later era Literally saying that at the table read, that he would actively clam up when other sketches that weren't his, that he didn't want to see do well, like he would hold back laughter.

And I don't remember that in my era. Yeah. My cast, what I liked about my group was like Carvey and Nealon and Hartman and Jan Hooks and Nora and Victoria and uh, uh, shit. Dana Carvey, I mentioned him right. Mike Myers. Mike joined later, but they, they would like openly bicker with each other, but they would never do that. They would never hold back at read through. If somebody was funny, people gave it up. And you know, cause that's like a whole other level of competitive that is just, well, that's like sabotage. Yeah. It's like, you're not

everybody in that era really wanted the show to be good. Does it flare up in you? What competitiveness, not like wanting to clam up, but like. I mean, I'm human, I want to do well and stuff, but I check out when I sense, if I've had friendships where that I've put on hold when I felt like I was having a certain level of success and a friend was. Not enjoying it.

Clearly in some way not enjoying it. Yeah. That really, that really knocked me out. Did you, well, you seem pretty, are you generally humble? Like meaning not humble? I mean like, but like, I don't want to say I'm the most humble guy in the world, but you seem, you do seem like a pretty, like, you enjoy comedy. Like, you really like comedy. That's the thing. Like, it's joyous for you to do.

Oh, I mean, especially Saturday Night Live. I think I was maybe the first fanboy ever hired in the, like, a person who grew up, like, watching the show in the mid-70s, like, from the original. And I was hired, like, 10 years after the show was on. And I don't know that they'd ever hired a writer like that before, who had really, like in his teenage years,

worshiped the show. Like I was growing up in New York City too. So it was everything that the rest of the country felt was elevated. Cause like what that show did for New York City on top of everything else, I grew up living in Manhattan, and I loved, as a child,

I just loved growing up in Manhattan. And it was different then, it was a little more of a, it wasn't as homogenous with rich people. It was also like gross and dangerous. Yeah, it was gross and dangerous. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. When I look at movie, Taxi Driver's like my favorite movie anyway.

Yeah. Oh yeah, animals come out at night. When I just get to look at movies from the 70s that were filmed in New York, I get so nostalgic for that. This is a side note. I was told Trader wrote Taxi Driver about LA. What? I could see that. This is a side note. You know, I was told taxi trader wrote taxi driver about LA. What?

I could see that somebody explained it to me. I could see there's it's all separated by cars, car windows. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's all none of it's it. That's LA. That's right. That's how it was explained to me.

Wow. Um, uh, but, but yeah, so I, so when Lord Michaels went with and Johnny Carson had left New York right around the mid seventies for Burbank. So I in my head had this hatred for Los Angeles. Like I was already like locked in a TV nerd, you know, uh, kids used to do an impression of me answering the phone. Hi, I'm yeah, I'm having dinner. Because I had a weird family.

My dad worked really late hours and we would eat dinner really late. But yeah, so I was like heartbroken when he moved to LA and my dad was a New York Giants baseball fan and he was heartbroken. He would talk about how the Dodgers and Giants moved to the West Coast. So anyway, so here's a show that's bringing and this is when Abe Beam, the mayor of New York had, there was a financial collapse and then Gerald Ford, the president, denied funding for New York, dropped dead. This is like the lowest point in the city probably since the Depression, no kidding.

And this show comes on and what it did for, I mean, it excited me for just being such a cool new type of comedy on television, but what it did for New York too, just starting with Chevy Chase saying, live from New York. Live from New York. Montage glamorizing New York and highlighting the punk scene

and all this cool stuff that was just emerging at the time. I mean, it's just an incredible contribution. And I like someday, I hope they name the street after Lorne Michaels because I don't know anybody who did more for New York City and the entertainment industry. I hope someday they make a documentary about it. About what?

About Cinerite Live, finally. Oh, yeah, that's... And make a feature film. I hope, find, someday... Someday, the show's been... It gets some kind of coverage. I always say the show's been more examined more than World War II. Like you could name more writers from SNL than generals.

You're absolutely right. You know, there's like going to be like six documentaries coming out this year. Yeah. I'm not kidding. And the full feature. And the Jason Reitman feature. Yes. Yes.

Um, God bless. Oh, and the Jason Reitman feature, yes, yes. God bless. All right, well, you're not competitive and I don't know you well at all, but- I was raised in a hippie-dippie era, so I went to a camp that was aggressively not competitive. So I was kind of raised that way, to not be that way. Not even so much by my parents as much as just the environment around me. Like there were hippies marching outside protesting Vietnam when I was a kid, and I just looked up to them,

and then I went to this progressive camp, and so I had all that ingrained in me, and so I really recoiled from, and comedians, I started out trying to do standup, but I wasn't as comfortable in that environment because it felt competitive. So I- Well, that's what I was going to say.

Okay. Because I've heard you, I mean, not heard you, I've spoken to you about friends of yours that you've, your contemporary, Conan, Sandler, Chris Rock, and you talk about them. I one time asked you if you were proud of Conan, you were like, you almost like teared up. And what I'm saying, I guess my question is, do you, is there, sometimes I worry like,

is there something to be said for arrogance? So to be said for like, oh, you won't, you will play support. I generally have played support a lot. Like I'm happy to support people. I mean, because I believe in like fairness and like this motherfucker's so funny. I'll support them. I never have a problem with people getting successful

who are amazing, you know? Yeah. That's what I'm rooting for all the time. And yeah, but- Do you ever think like you wish you had a bigger ego or something? I think I have a pretty big ego, but I just feel like I, there's just too much other shit to care about than that. And I understand everything that's happened to me that's led me to where I am and I'm

perfectly fine with where I am. I have regrets at things. I mean, when you talk about arrogance, I don't know if it's arrogance or maybe aggressiveness. Like, I, there might have been things I could have done when I was younger that focused more on getting from point A to point B. Like I never got a manager. I never, and I hired an agent based on the fact that I thought he was a nice guy when I had other friends who were hiring like, Oh, this guy's a shark. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want that in my life. I just don't want to

talk to a person like that every day of my life. Yeah. And I might've been in, it sounds like high minded moral, but I think it was a little bit also a little bit of judgmental in my own mind. Like, I'm just too good for this. I do. I think, you know, that's something that I always struggle with. Like, am I being moral? Like, is it performative? Is it performative on some level? And I don't really think it is, but ultimately that was my gut at the time. I just, I don't want to talk to that guy every day of my life.

There are other choices I made that, like I could have written for Seinfeld. For the sitcom. Yeah. And, uh. Or what year? Well, Larry David came to SNL With Seinfeld and he hosted and one of my favorite sketches that I ever did was on that show

It was called stand up and win. Yeah, one of the best sketches. I'll send you the I'm again, I Love the sketch so much that I Did a thing with Seinfeld and we watched the sketch. Really? Because he hadn't seen it. Oh wow. Since you guys did it.

I loved him so much for having a sense of humor. I have a photo of us watching it. I literally have a, I'll send it to you. Like I have a photo of me and Seinfeld watching Stand Up and Win because it's such a fucking hilarious sketch and you're shitting on comics. Yeah, it's more, it's like shitting on a certain type of comedy.

Yeah. And it's not making fun of Jerry, it's making fun of everything that was spawned. From Jerry. From Jerry. Which I had done a sketch like three years earlier, or maybe seven years earlier, I was there so long, where it was just three stand-ups backstage

having a conversation, and they all sounded like Seinfeld. Tom Hanks did it. Ninety-nine percent fat-free milk. Where's the other one percent? I mean, hey! But then Jerry came on the show and I just thought, so much stand-up is like people just being rhetorical. And it started with Jerry and it's, you know, the whole,

-"What's the deal?" -"Jerry's the host of the game game show he's the host of the game show and the questions are all like what is the deal what's the deal with airplane food and then the answer is just like I know it's got the thing and the peanuts really can they can they fit two more peanuts in the bag ding ding ding ding ding, you know, and by the way you pre sage Chandler could it be anymore? This stuff taste any worse. Could I be more sorry? I Mean that's signed by I mean it's or whatever. Yeah, it's not it's it's something that stand-ups. Yes. Yes for sure But and then there was one I guess you called it out. I called it out. Yes, and then there was one What was my favorite thing? Oh, yeah, the kind of the category is like

Seven eleven employees the card goes up and the question is Uh huh. Could somebody fill me in because I'd like to know. Yeah. It's so funny. So I felt as a hilarious line read where he goes like, uh, no, we were looking for. That's not, uh, the name of the game. And then he reads it. Yes.

Name of the game. Sorry. The correct answer is clap on, clap off. I'm watching TV. Every time someone gets a round of applause, my garage door goes up and down. Clap on, clap off. I'm watching TV. Every time someone gets a round of applause, my garage door goes up and down.

Okay. It was brilliantly read. So goddamn. He totally got it. He totally got it. Yeah, all right, because I was going to say, I wonder, like, did you write it and he nailed it the first time?

Oh my God, he was all over the idea. Great. And he completely understood it. I mean, that guy's brilliant. So that was 97? No, God, that was like 91 or something. Oh yeah, you're right, sorry. Yeah, so.

I mean, Seinfeld, the show was just emerging as a hit at that time. And Larry, hey, if you ever wanna, you wanna write for the show? And I did, because the only sitcom I ever thought that I could write for, honestly, because I'm not a jokey kind of writer, I'm more of an idea person, and I can write jokes like off a character more than you know

Yeah, and I just loved the show, but my dad was really sick and I did not want to uproot I didn't want to and then I just then a couple of years later Got the opportunity to start Conan with him and that was like and then you were like, yeah So dream job, but not necessarily the best career, like, you know, cause like, you know, I like to joke. Sometimes you talk about people who you start with, who get more successful. And, and yeah, I call it like showbiz leapfrog, like, Hey, Steve Correll, you're hired for the, Whoa, hey, way to go.

Yeah. like, hi, Steve Carell, you're hired for the, whoa, hey, way to go. Steve Colbert, I tried to get you on Conan, but can you audition for Dana Carvey and help? And it's great, but it even happened with people who were young writers at SNL, like Steve Corn and David Mandel. Oh yeah, they went to Seinfeld. Yeah, they went to Seinfeld. And then like five years later, I have like a kid with autism and I'm terrified about money

and all the support he's going to need. And like these guys have $3 million development deals. And I'm like doing a puppet three times a year on Conan and like the cutout mouth and I'm doing my cartoons. And it was actually like creatively, it was the happiest time of my life because I, I just, I was like this specialty act on two different shows that I was not, I didn't have to come to the show every day. You didn't have to come to the office every day, but I was the guy on Conan who did the

most popular character on the show at the time, Triumph. It's premiere night here for Attack of the Clones, but outside the Siegfeld Theater is the real show. Return of the Dorks. Thousands of 35 year old men waiting days, even months for just a taste of George Lucas's table scraps. Lonely men who have never had sex, not even with a Catholic priest. And I also did all the celebrity mouth things. Welcome sir.

Hello! Which was the other most popular bit on the show pretty much at the time. I was saying dole. Dole? Dole! God, I had fun dole. The dole? The other guy. Dole. God, I had fun doing that.

Yeah, I had fun. It was a joy to watch. That's the most fun I've ever had performing. And did you? But I was doing TV fun house too at the same time. I was like, I'm the luckiest person in show business. Yeah, and it was like your own plate like a little Michaels gave me at that point in my career

I've never had more creative freedom loren michaels Game the biggest compliment i've ever had in my whole career was he says to me There was like a point after like a year or of doing these cartoons Like where he didn't even want to know, didn't even want me to submit them. He just was like, I just like to be surprised on Saturday. It's like, yeah, perfect. It's like the nicest thing. Yeah.

And, and he really, he had, he gave me more creative control than even Conan, who was like one of my best friends. Yeah. Like Conan would be like, we got to cut this, we got to cut that. And he was usually right from like these triumph bits. He was almost always right, but sometimes I'd be like, fuck, I'm, but he's got a left and he's like, less is more. But Lauren would just, he would let me make the decisions between dress and air, you know, with, cause I would hear an audience and I would make my own cuts and he never it was amazing it was so

creatively it was like the best thing I ever had but it wasn't leading to anything you know and I was like yeah the one thing about money but yeah it's I guess if you want to not like if you want to be Colbert whatever there what it like it is something you always start with somebody that I ever need this leading to I didn't I didn't the only reason I gave a shit was because I had a kid with autism at that point. Yeah, I never had this Gargantuan all I wanted to do was get my shit made if I had a funny idea

I didn't want I didn't care if I'm famous. I didn't care if I was loved I But I did care I would fall in love with my ideas and my scripts and be like, fuck, I gotta get this made. I gotta, you know, and that, that's the thing that I did crave was power. Well, okay. Okay. How, but how I, the only like knock on in time and a knock is that you're, you have very high standards and you need things to be a certain way.

And I certainly did it at SNL and Conan. I could get crazily, uh, you know, uh, anal retentive about details. So when you hear about like, uh, Steve jobs or something, do you go like, I get it. Meaning like I got the, that guy's like a death spot, but yeah, it always felt like you're about like people making you know Like doing 70 takes or when Mike Myers was doing Wayne's world and stuff people were like Orson Welles over here, but I was sympathetic to it Yeah, I knew the guy had a vision and

But I was sympathetic to it. Yeah. I knew the guy had a vision, and details do matter in comedy. You know that. And, I mean, I would do crazy shit. Like, I would... Person would come in for the cartoon

and in a recording session, and do their lines, and they'd be great. But then I'd have all these takes, and I would literally cut takes in half. Not just sentences. I would take sometimes the first half of one sentence. Yes, I actually would split words into syllables. You said you're looking like it's not, not crazy at all. I don't, I, do you want good comedy or not? That's the way I always felt about it. It's like I can do it the wrong way and be easy going.

I mean, I literally got into an argument with a really good friend of mine like a month ago about my intensity. A lot of changed when my kid was diagnosed. Well, all right, but that's a good, I wanna talk about it. I'm sure you've heard me talk about Mando Whole Body Deodorant at this point, haven't you?

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You know, a lot of changed when my kid was diagnosed with autism because's like, just everything else doesn't matter. Right. So were you sort of a more classic comedy character, personality, martyr, like fucking bleeding, like for your sketching? You mean when I was before? Yeah, before you're... Yeah, like when that happens. So you go, oh! Well, it wasn't instantaneous. Yeah, before you're... Yeah, like when that happens, you go, oh!

Well, it wasn't instantaneous. Some of it was, some of it was, but you know, it's gradual because like, yes, it's like a big shock to the system and you know, nothing matters more than helping this child. Watches him comes out around three or four? No, no, he was diagnosed at age one and a half. Okay. matters more than helping this child that I love more than any. Why, does he come on around three or four? No, no, he was diagnosed at age one and a half.

Okay. And, you know, back then there was very little information beyond, like, how to cure it. It's all about the cure, the cure in, you know, synthetic drugs that you can experiment with and we didn't want to do any of that. Um, cause scariest thing to us was like the last thing I want to do is anything that would exacerbate this. Anything that would make it worse for him if it didn't go right. So it's like, let's just figure out what he needs and how we can help them. And what we realized was there was like no charities designed for like helping people with autism right now. Like they were all cure based. But yeah, in terms of perspective,

that came over time. Like, like I said, there was instantaneous perspective and then it heightened partly because that's what a lot of our life became was just people coming in and out, therapists who were so incredibly dedicated and patient. I mean, because Daniel's affected pretty profoundly. You know, he's not really, he's verbal in a sense that he can, you know, utter like one or two words at a time. He expresses himself through a communicative, augmentative device where he presses pictures, things he wants and knows how to press I want and then that set of like choices outdoors

and different photographs come up and then he presses outdoors and then there's another choice of like 20 different things and he hears the voice say it. When he, it's a great system and the iPad was an amazing innovation that made it easier for him to carry it around. But- Created by a tyrant. Created by a tyrant, but you know, sometimes tyrants.

Every time. Every single time. Okay. But anyway, so seeing, having these people become such a huge part of my life after spending the last 20 years with just people I adored who were brilliant and hilarious, but were all about expressing themselves. Yeah. That was a shock to the system. And like to going from like, going from just a bunch just a bunch of people like I want to do this.

I want to do this. Selfish. Me, me, me, me, me. Yeah. But it's like not, it's not entirely selfish because I mean, but it's, yeah, I know it feels selfish because it's all about me creating, but they're fucking, I realized that from Saturday Night Live when I was 16, I just like was daydreaming about an episode I'd seen with Robert Klein and picturing the cast

and thinking about the incredible amount of joy they brought me and it was the first time I ever thought, oh, maybe it's a worthy profession. It was like, because before then it was like, my family would be like, oh, you don't wanna be an actor. That's silly, make believe and all that kind of stuff. That show inspired me to realize that. And that's, so I don't feel like it's a selfish act,

but I do feel like it's, you know, there's a selfish impulse that you get that comes along with it. And these guys are just like incrementally helping my son on a daily basis, just so patiently trying to get him to like, whether it was he had lost his ability to like find motor skills, you know, people reteaching him how to use a spoon or how to suck through a straw, just, you know, super basic stuff.

But you have to do it incredibly slowly and deliberately because otherwise it'll be aversive because he has so many sensory issues. And to have those people in your life day to day, not to mention my wife, who just, she had this amazing career going. She was an anthropology student getting her masters, working at the Museum of Natural History, moving up there, the Hall of Evolution, she helped and was involved in designing. And like, if this, you know, she'd be like at the top of that place at this point. And that was like a dream of hers.

And she didn't even think twice. It's like, okay, that's over with. And there was a point like about six months in where I hadn't even think twice. It's like, okay, that's over with. And there was a point, like about six months in, where I hadn't been working either, and she's like, you gotta get back to it. We need money. You gotta, I got this, for the most part. You're gonna help, but I got this.

You gotta make money. Ha ha ha ha ha. You gotta get back to it. And so I did because... What year was that? Like the year 2000, 2001. Yeah. Yeah. And, but yeah, she's like, and just having her in my life every day,

just thinking about what she gave up and you know. So you didn't really change, like it hasn't changed your work. I guess what I'm, one of the thoughts I had was like, you can still be, you know, so you didn't really change like it hasn't changed your work. I guess what I'm one of the thoughts I had was like you can still be You know moral grateful and fucking funny as shit like it doesn't they're not usually exclusive I one of the blocks I listed was like I Don't remember how I described it, but it was like it had to do with rage

I don't know how I described it, but it was like, it had to do with rage. It had to do with managing my rage, I think. Because like, a lot of comedy comes from a level of rage and anger, especially satire. Like again, I'm trying to make money all the time. I'm trying to, like I'm working on movies. The last 15 years, mostly I've been working on movies. And I've been less relevant than I ever was

in the 90s and 2000s. I mean in the 2000s, I was like, even when I had Daniel and we were struggling and all that, but I was still doing triumph in my cartoons, it wasn't that taxing. It was a great situation for me, personally too, because I could mostly work from home. And, but I, and I still felt like I'm on a trajectory.

I mean, I was like, do you remember when like the, Chris Rock was on the cover of that Entertainment Weekly, and it was like the funniest person in America and they had a list of like the 40 or 50 funny and I was like number nine. I know it seems ridiculous now. Not to me it doesn't. Well to you but at the time because Triumph was big and the cartoons were big. I guess it is like any comedy writer doesn't usually make those lists.

Right but I had like a pretty- Especially back then, now more they do, but yeah. I guess, I don't know, but I had this pretty high profile and then, you know, but I had to focus on making money and so I kind of just decided, and then we had two more kids. We had twin boys like 10 years later, we finally felt like we had this under control a little bit, you know, and Daniel was doing better. So we had twin boys and then I really was like, and then I, and then SNL let me go because they just, they had been pressuring Lauren for a few years, budget cuts, and they had

cut really great people like the year before, like Rachel Dratch and Chris Parnell. And they finally cut me in the same year Conan moved to LA. So I didn't have that. Yeah. So then I really dove into just making, working for Sandler, whatever he needed. And I wrote the Zohan movie with them. And then I started doing like, you know, Hotel Transylvania. This is, I think the movies are good and I enjoyed them, but this is not my dream anymore. You know, but it didn't

matter. I was, those are actually like the happiest years of my life. I was like completely irrelevant, but I had, Daniel was doing better and my two boys were healthy and happy and I was just over the moon. I just, all I wanted to do was watch them. You know? Yeah, and being a screenwriter is fairly, not leisurely, but compared to like having to- No, it was great.

I was able to be, like I don't have any regrets, like in terms of like I got to watch these boys really grow up, like their first 10 years or so. I mean, I had like a couple of digressions. I did a sitcom for Triumph that did not go well. The Jack and Triumph Show, premiering February 20th at 1130 PM, only on Adult Swim. On Adult Swim, where everybody was like, why is he doing a sitcom with a laugh track? Like, they didn't understand the irony.

Yeah. I should really take you down. Screw you, I'm here to stay, bitch. Because Jack and I are like Chris Christie's legs in a coach seat. We can't be separated. We can't be separated. I thought that was the hippest audience to play it for and I've got an amazing offer to do it there, but it was a totally wrong place for it. But anyway, and I actually bailed out of it because I wanted more time with my, I could,

I had a 20 episode guarantee and we took a break after seven, and we were gonna do 13 more. And I just bailed, because I could see it wasn't gonna work on that network. And I did not want to be away from my kids. Well, what do you make of, like, the idea of work-life balance? Because... Because it... I mean, I felt lucky that I had that ability to, uh, I mean, I,

I don't expect that everybody can be that lucky. Yeah. You know, and people shouldn't feel guilty about it. People like you and I can, so I guess I wonder like somewhat. Yeah. How much do you focus on? Was there a point where you were like, uh, I gotta, I should work or is it just like I need money or is it like you're generating ideas and you're like, I want to fucking get my idea going. It's everything. All of that's constantly, you know, it's like the devil on your shoulder.

Yeah. Just like I'm having an amazing time with my kids. I want to watch them play basketball. I want to watch them do everything. I want to help them with my kids. I want to watch them play basketball. I want to watch them do everything. I want to help them with their homework. But then I got this other thing going on, whether it's appealing to my ego or whether it's appealing to my responsibility as a parent, but it's all there. Responsibility as a parent to make money, you know? And so, and one of the other things I wrote as a block is that I'm a worry work.

I worry all the time. And that's like, it's just something I've never been good at is compartmentalizing my... Hypervigilance? Or whatever, I mean all of it compartmentalizing the stuff that's hanging over me. Like, I can't. I just, there's a famous, it's not famous yet, but it's famous to people at SNL who've

seen it. Norm MacDonald's, the head writer, excuse me, the writer's assistant who became Norm MacDonald's producer, Laurie Jo Hoekstra, was the writer's assistant who became Norm McDonald's producer, Lori, Joe Hoekstra was the writer's assistant. And one night when all the writers discovered that there was some ball that they tore apart and it had rubber in it. And they started playing a game where they would throw the ball against the wall and then try to throw a dart to stop it as it was slowly going down and they called it goo ball and everybody there's this video of everybody on a Thursday night having a great time doing it and then it pans to me

and I'm just like, I just can't let go of, I can't so many times that's happened to me where I just can't let go of whatever, whatever I feel responsible for at that moment. Well, that's what it's like. what do you think the purpose of life is? Because that is one of those like everyone's having fun and you are not. Well, you know, with my sons, I've many times shirked responsibility to have fun with them. Yes, because I just, I just know what, this is a window that I have. And they're also like, you know, I've never loved anybody any more than I love these guys, you know, and my wife and, and, you know, and I, I would have moments in the, when I'm

like, when they were growing up and I'd be driving and they just be in the back making each other laugh. And I would just in my head think to myself, is this the happiest moment of my whole life? I'm pretty sure it is. Yeah, just just driving and hearing them laugh at each other or like taking them to the IHOP for the first time and and watching them discover, you know, pancakes with a face on it. It's just like, it sounds ridiculous, but, and what I've come to realize is that all the showbiz stuff is not the same type of happiness.

Like my best moments in show business, like, and I've had a million of them, you know, just things like, I just remember like the joy I felt just sitting for the first time I did Bill Clinton with Conan and the first big laugh we got and just the fact that we were starting the show together and doing this bid together too. And this gigantic laugh when Bill Clinton, when he handed him a coffee mug and Bill Clinton lapped it up like a kitten. Here you go, Mr. President. Alright. I had my kids and had those kind of moments.

I realized that it's a different type of happiness. That's more like excited. I'm thrilled. And it's born out of like a relief of some sort. All this fear that led, is this going to work? And then it did. And that's just huge relief and thrill and excitement. And this, my kids just laughing in the backseat, that's just absolute bliss.

Yeah. Just contentment, just happier than I ever thought I could be. There's like no stress chemical in it. No. It's just a gift. Where if it worked, there is like, you're kind of panting like you escaped an animal.

It's just this unbelievable gift that I never imagined that would mean so much to me. So, you know, to have that, you know, and parents, all parents go through that, you know, and those moments where they realize what really makes them happy. Yeah. I think, I mean, not them happy. Yeah, I think I mean not all parents Yeah, I like 2% Yeah, probably You don't like you this all the all of these seem like trying to balance ambition and probably Probably and when and do you think it's solvable or do you think it's just like?

I mean, no, I don't think it's solvable. I think it's human. I mean, I don't think you should, I think you can forgive yourself for, for striving to be ethical and, but also not ignoring your own ambition. I mean, it's just human, you know, and as long as you're aware of it and you know that you need to find a balance, that's a huge part of the battle. Just, just really caring to make it work and feel like you're giving your kids or whatever your spouse or whomever you're responsible for.

And I do feel like that gets lost. Like I feel like the last 40 years or so, especially since the hippie dippy year I grew up in, we celebrate success disproportionately. You know, it's just glamorized and, you know, going back to shit in the 80s, whatever, you know, the greed is good era and lifestyles of the rich and famous and People Magazine all the way to now and Instagram and people just showing their best side on Facebook and

Instagram and everybody turning into a performer and feeling the pressure to show how amazing their life is. You know, it's perverse and it definitely is a challenge to like, you know, keep your kids in line and yourself and just kind of try and remember that that's not what's fucking important. So when I chose not to become a dentist, my dad was a really successful dentist and I didn't know that I could be funny or successful. I mean, I was a funny kid in school, but I didn't think I could have a career at this, but I just did so badly as a pre dental student that I finally just was beaten down and gave it a try. And then it ended up working out and I was in Chicago and I had this comedy group that

was doing really well, but years were passing and I wasn't, you know, I was like 24 or 23 and my parents would occasionally have somebody call me or write to me and try to give me advice, steering me back. Right to you. Yeah. That's so funny. I mean, it sounds like a million years ago. My sister was a lawyer and the judge that she worked for was a famous judge and he wrote

me a letter about, you know, the perils of a show business and, you know, just, and then I spoke to a rabbi that my dad knew and he was trying to steer me back. But the one thing he said that really resonated, and it sounds just very trite and simple, but he says, you know, your life isn't just for yourself. And I was like, yeah, I get that. Did you get it? I did get it, but I didn't think that becoming a dentist was going to solve anybody else's problem at the time. And I was doing pretty well in Chicago.

And I did not care about being rich or anything at that time. I could not believe we had a show that was running. We only did three shows a week. We would sell out 150 seats each night. I lived in an apartment with two friends. My rent was like 150 a month. And I was making, we were splitting the revenue and I was making like 300, 350 a week.

And I was like, I don't need to do anything else. I'll just keep doing these shows Yeah, I was and I had this girlfriend already that I ended up marrying and I just felt like This is all I ever need. This is this is heaven and even when I got SNL I was over the moon, but there was a part of me that was like I wish this happened a few years later So you could enjoy the yeah because I was the fallow period. So I could enjoy like the struggle or the fallow period, even though it was totally full.

I didn't care. I wasn't, I wasn't striving to get to SNL. You're just comparing it to being in comedy. So which is, it's so much better than not being in comedy. Exactly. being in comedy, so which is so much better than not being in comedy. You're like. Exactly, I was like expressing myself successfully on stage, you know, I was performing and writing and I couldn't have been happier.

I don't remember what my point was. Well, it's the balance of like selfishness or like what is a moral life or yeah. So the rabbi said your life isn't just for yourself. And that the reason I bring it up is because yeah, it didn't mean that much to me back then, but years later, you know, having gone through, uh, parenthood and witnessing all these great people, helping my older son, and just going through that experience. And like I said before, realizing what religion really is, that it really is just about being

there for each other. And like, so I do feel like there's not enough celebration of just the nobility of just being there for other people and people who don't do glamorous things in their life and movies that celebrate. Like I did this movie Leo and I was very proud that it was ultimately this guy's lesson, this lizard's lesson was just about, you know, he had these dreams of escaping the school. He was a class pet and all he wanted to do was like, you know, catch a fly and maybe see the Everglades. That was his, like, the thing was based in Florida. Those were his ideas of big dreams. And then he accidentally ends up being caught by a kid

and the kid hears him talk and they end up having a conversation and he has actual advice for the kid that's useful. And then he gets sort of addicted to giving other kids advice. And then he realizes that that's the purpose in life that he always never realized was there for him and that was his dream and and You know, I just love movies. I've always been touched by movies that

Celebrate that kind of selflessness like I mean, I'm a sucker for It's a wonderful life going back to when I was like a teenager and I would you know See, I mean that's entirely about someone I call my wife, George and Mary Bailey. Like she's a fusion of the two of them to me because she has the all the sacrifice that George Bailey made and all the energy and spunk of Donna Reed's character. But like, yeah, I just, that movie always meant so much to me, but I never really thought about why until I experienced having people around me who were like that. You know, and I just feel like there's just not enough of that out there.

That there's just so much pressure on people to feel successful. Yeah. And, you know, it's also so hard to, it's so hard to promote, so hard to promote personal generosity. It's just hard to promote it's, you know, like, and a lot of times when it's, when people try to present it, it comes off very cloying, like the good news. You know, it's like packaged in a way that almost infantilizes it. Yeah. And instead of just acknowledging that that can be really difficult too and, uh, but worth

it completely worth it and worthy of a life well lived, you know Robert smigel is don't do something nice for somebody fucking would you don't forget mr. Matt mr. Matt Mr. Matt clock and chicken. No, but mr. Matt specifically people don't give him enough credit for the joy. He brings The you know, it's like infectious. Look at him. I mean, it's joy for the game. Yeah, he's running, I think he's actually, he just hit a weak grounder at a second. And he's getting thrown out, but he's still, got a big smile on his face.

I mean, he's a Met, it's a weak grounder. But he's got a huge smile on his face. He doesn't care, he's playing for the love of the game. Anyway, I just want to give Mr. Matt his... There's a live triumph on YouTube, right? Can I talk about this for a second? Yeah. Now that everyone's tuned out?

Yeah, yeah. No, I do this show called Let's Make a Poop that's been on a few times on my YouTube channel and on Team Coco's channel. And you should check it out. I would love to. It's like, it's a game show and I've like had contestants on like Rob Schneider and Rod Blagojevich who were just the audience. Half the audience is angry that they're even there, but I'm so happy to, I'm just so happy to shit on them to their face and that they're willing to do it.

And, you know, and we had weird Al Yankovic on a different show. They're all on the YouTube channel. And that's all you have to say about it. It's really, it's so funny. Great show for me to poop on.