Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Taylor Tomlinson

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

Neal Brennan interviews Taylor Tomlinson (Netflix specials: Quarter-Life Crisis, Look At Me) about the things that make her feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how she is persevering despite these blocks. Taylor's Blocks: 00:00 Intro 07:07 Mom Died 10:44 Hypervigilant 16:31 Success + Relationships 36:29 Children 39:10 Anxiety 41:07 Drinking 55:55 Bipolar II 59:46 Religion Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Hi, it's me, Neil. I can't decide which camera to throw to. But the good thing is I have uneven, divergent eyes. So who knows where I'm looking?

I should just look in the middle. I have a Netflix special called Blocks where I have a bunch of literal blocks in the wall that represent things in life that make me feel like something's wrong with me that make me feel isolated that make me feel alone and this podcast is about having other people on and we talk about their blocks we talk about the things that make them feel isolated make them feel like something's wrong with them my guest today is a young lady we would have called her a comedian back in the 80s and 90s she's a really funny great comic uh with good ideals and a good work ethic and a good code. And you can tell from the outside because she always has new jokes and she works hard. And she's got two Netflix specials and a half hour on Netflix.

One's called Look at You. One's called Quarter Life Crisis. And what's the other one? Comedians? It's actually 15. It's the comedy lineup. Oh, only 15. I know.

They did that for a minute. Ooh. Tough. Wouldn't have had you on. I don't know. Taylor Tomlinson is the guest today, everybody. And it's a podcast, so we don't really have any noise there. But there would have been a wacky sound effect or, you know, a crowd noise.

Taylor Donaldson, nice to see you. Good to see you. We don't know each other well. This will be our longest conversation. Although, like many people, I started our conversation by telling you what to do. Yes, with some unsolicited advice. Neil Brennan, king of the unsolicited advice. That I appreciated, but didn't really take.

I'll tell them what the advice was. You would come to the comedy club and you would get in and out, seemingly. I told you that you should socialize with comedians more because I'd seen people, most notably Dane Cook, who once said publicly like his manager told him just get in and out and don't fraternize and it made people not like them and so i was like don't make that mistake uh socialize with comics more next thing i know

you're dating sam morel and i was like you went too far um no i kid uh i read your in and outness as people would read it as superiority right or like you think you're better than us i guess people i guess people see it as like stand up people just interpret your behavior however they want to like whatever they want you to be yes they're gonna go if you're friendly they'll say you're fake and if you're quiet they'll say you're standoffish when really you're just scared i mean i just i i went to the improv last night and i filled into the set and i was talking to uh jeffrey baldinger about this where somebody came in and introduced themselves to everybody and like didn't talk to me and i was trying to make eye contact with them and i turned to jeffrey and I go am I still like not approachable because I'm really trying I'm like am I not approachable and he goes

he goes no you're very you never have been no so he tried to give a beat of like no and then he just bailed in the middle and it was so funny but I really have worked on it like I but now I'm like almost giving too much eye contact. But also the thing, the reason I said I wouldn't have said it looking back, I didn't realize that you just have anxiety. Yeah. That's the thing I never assume about people. Part of the reason I did three mics the way I did was because I was explaining to people like, you want to know why I seem the way I seem? Yeah. Here's why.

Because I'm from a mess and it's a mess up top. Yeah. Here's why. Because I'm from a mess and it's a mess up top. Yeah. With you, I didn't realize until I watched more of your stuff like, oh, okay. Yeah. But it's funny that as people, we don't assume that. No. And, you know, we're all so insecure. Like, it doesn't matter how big you are.

Like, when I was doing, you know, COVID shows, like, when all those outdoor venues popped up and, and like all the biggest comedians were in town because no one was touring and you're just on these lineups with like you're doing stand up on the back of a pickup truck yeah and you're like with you know the biggest comics in the world and seeing the dynamics between them was interesting because i was like oh even at that level you're insecure and you're wondering what your peers think about you. And it just never gets better, I guess. Everyone's just like, ah, making small talk. Like, ah, the thing that I'm thinking about right now, Spike Lee has been a hero of mine since I was 10 or whatever. The director, Spike Lee.

And then he, once Chappelle got popular and he did a sketch one time. And so I started to see him at the Nick games and he knew who I was. And he just has a go to small talk, which is you shouldn't. And it's just wherever wherever he sees you. That's just like he's not. It's just he's panicking. Even your heroes are panicking. Yeah.

So it turns out you were panicking so much and i didn't have conipin i wasn't on mood stabilizers like i was just so i was like sick to my stomach every time i went to the store like sick to my stomach and i still get nervous like doing sets in la like i'm that i started taking beta blockers did you yeah like recently and it helps a lot it changes it yeah it completely transforms your i started getting panic attacks the not the week before i taped three mics oh really and and it was a good run you didn't have it before that uh no i didn't because i went off antidepressants uh thinking like i could and then i started having panic attacks i couldn't go on the night before i did three mics I had a panic attack I think Jessalyn was supposed to bring me on and I was like yeah and uh and then I went and then I've gone off Zoloft again and I'm getting panicked so I just

got uh Propanolol oh it's a good beta blocker and it's like your heart just doesn't explode yeah it was on stage like can't breathe tightening neck uh tightening throat i call it neck um tightening throat walls closing in no idea what was happening uh got him right live on a radio station one show one time pretty great yeah all right so here's what i would like to cover in terms of blocks with you okay you sent me your list i would like to give people some backstory what's the your wikipedia entry i know that you have two and a half i did the 2.25 special on netflix uh-huh uh what's the wikipedia in terms of like she's the youngest of da-da-da-da. Oh, I'm the oldest of four. Okay. Yeah.

So you think I wouldn't need more attention, but apparently. Control issues. People hate control issues except for airline pilots and surgeons. You guys go ahead. Your mother died. That's the significant thing I was looking for. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry.

So we were looking for mother died. Sorry. Oldest of four, dead mom. She died when you're how old eight i watched on the j shetty podcast that guy's gorgeous oh my god of course yeah um and i watched it on mute i don't even know what you said um and i skipped your parts fuck yeah so uh yeah sorry i always think it's bullshit when people go that's the most significant moment of my life. You kind of go, you don't know what the most significant moment of your life was. That's pretty fair and square, the most significant moment of your life.

Yeah, I feel confident saying that. I mean, it was the most formative, for sure, I think. And I don't think I realized that until the last few years of my life. Because I think my early 20s, I was like, you're fine now. Like, we get it it happened you're good and then it just comes in waves you know grief isn't linear and all the things people say are true like I realized I know that if I listened to Jay Shetty not on mute I know right I would have heard that by now well because even as I as my career started going better I was like

I had people saying like oh your mom would have been so proud. And I'm like, I don't know that I would have been doing this if my mom was alive. That's a funny and potentially true thing. What were you like before she died? Do you remember? I mean, I was seven. No, but that's what I'm saying. Do you remember any traces of a personality?

I don't remember being anxious and I don't remember having nightmares, really. And I started having really bad nightmares after she died. Why? I'm kidding. I know, right? Ugh, why, though? I don't understand. You think there was a connection?

Maybe you're lactose intolerant. I am, actually. Oh, great, great, great. It's a real toss-up. Maybe you need to change your diet. Yeah. I changed my answer. That's the most significant. Yeah, it's the lactose. It's the lactose intolerant i am actually so you know yeah maybe it's a real toss your diet yeah i changed my answer that's the most significant yeah it's the lactose it's lactose because i remember being kind of funny before before i was eight i don't know i don't remember being funny you know i was eight

so you think that it's a comedy as a nervous tick potentially i don't know from what i i've been told by like my grandparents I was unintentionally funny when I was a kid I was like a kid who took themselves really seriously and that's hilarious when you're four so I don't really remember being funny or trying to be funny before that but you're so young so how do you know so a lot of it is not a direct response, but kind of a direct response to like a new life situation, a new emotional situation. And like, just like that now I'm maybe. Yeah, I think maybe. But I also became way more anxious because of it.

Like, so terrified all the time of everything, because you can't tell yourself like that's probably not going to happen or that type of thing doesn't happen because you go no it did happen yeah the worst thing happened the worst thing happened a kind of bad thing could very easily happen yeah so it's all on the table yeah now forever yeah it well it opened you up to possibilities oh yeah you can guess and uh way better because anything you're it really expanded your horizons parameters of reality um comedy's been explained as most of us have kind of a remote or sad mom most people in comedy mine's very i mean fucking talk about it. The distance. Just give us any sort of sign. Hello. What were you doing that you then realized was just a direct, other than comedy, like,

do you find that most of who you are is sort of? Yeah, I think I'm like hypervigilant. I think that was something after her death that I, my life was very different once my dad got remarried and like I had three younger siblings and I was very scared that something would happen to them. And I became very paranoid about something happening to them. I was very paranoid about something happening to me, to my dad, like to anybody that I cared about. And you're like 11. Yeah. And you're like 11. So, and like my dad got remarried and kind

of like rebranded you know like he got to kind of start over and was like this different guy and we were just there kind of my childhood is so clearly divided between like pre that event and post that event and things were completely different after that okay and that's the point of the show is we talk about your blog so i would say let's say that hyper vigilance is one of your blogs yeah okay but it's also but it's also so beneficial it's like part of what makes me i know succeed like the hyper vigilant thing like it's also what makes me a good partner and a good friend is's like I'm always terrified I'm gonna lose people I'm always scared they're not gonna feel appreciated that they're gonna

leave that they're not gonna feel taken care of by me that I'm gonna make someone else feel the way I felt which is like abandoned and not cared for and that all makes me like good at things also it makes me miserable well that's what i was gonna say because hyper vigilance is based on jokes you've done in your act so i always i don't like in terms of love language i don't like uh acts of service and i don't like gifts because i feel like i don't know anyone i don't know a woman partner who's ever done that stuff out of pure selflessness. And so you're telling you're basically saying like you're caring for this person. You're hyper vigilant.

You're like thinking about like, I don't I don't want to abandon you the way I feel abandoned. But you're doing all this stuff with the expectation like and you're going to do it. Probably. I mean, and then you went i just know too many people that are miserable doing all these things and then they finally blurt out like why don't you ever i mean i guess but i also i mean i like being that way i don't want to do less because somebody else isn't willing to do more. I just want to find somebody else who feels the same way I do. You know, how long will you stay with somebody? Do you tell them what your needs are? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think I'm, I, you know, I don't know that I was always this way like in my early twenties, but I think now I'm, I'm really upfront and I'm pretty like,

Hey, like this is what would make me feel cared about. This is what I need. This is and I try to have pretty realistic expectations and people can choose to do that or not. And I also I'm very like, just tell me what to do. I'll do whatever you want. I'm not trying to like figure it out. I'm not trying to make you figure it out. Like I want to be good for you and I want it to be easy for you to be good for me. And then you realize at a certain point that they're probably not going to be able to do it.

Right. And then you because you're a woman you only stay with them another two years. Right. I don't know. I mean I've dated people who like got really good at taking care of me. I think like it's always you're always learning somebody else you know it's like well I guess the question I would ask is like can you learn someone else in a way that this is I'm older than you so I should know the answer to this but can you learn someone else and then that becomes your default can you change your default i feel

like that's the one of the big questions of my life is like how do you change your default settings how do you change the factory settings can you change it on a boyfriend can you train a boyfriend to be to meet your needs and then eventually it's natural for them and has anyone done that for you where like well i don't know because after we break up i don't know if they're going to be that for somebody else but have you been have i been better to the next person yeah yeah absolutely i've been a better partner in every relationship does the customization work or you think that there's just a blanket improvements that a person can make i think there's a blanket improvement that people can make i think you can choose the wrong people like one thing that i had trouble with when i was younger was trusting people and i think that

i know right i don't get it you're so hung up on this you're not gonna love me you're gonna lie to me and even if you do, you'll die. You know what's funny about those jokes, though? In your act, there's like, I don't know, 10 minutes about in that area.

Yeah. And look at you now streaming. Those jokes work for a reason. Yeah. Those jokes work because like,

that seems to be, and I've done jokes about women being paranoid. Do you think that's women's default in some ways? do you think that's women's default in some ways do you think suspicious yeah i don't know because i know friends who give people the benefit of the doubt right away who are really trusting i i think i don't know i hesitate to generalize but it's probably more normal for women to be suspicious.

And I think rightfully so. Yeah. I don't think men have earned any. Yeah. Like, why don't you? You shouldn't. I guess it's just, it is a funny thing where that's, you've got real reasons. Yeah. And also like, one of my blocks is dealing with success, which is again, very new to me in relationships. All right. Tell me more about that. That's one thing that's been weird about, you know,

cause the last like long real relationship I was in was another comedian who's also successful and doing well. Sam. Sam Morrell. This will be the second reference. I know. Very funny. And, uh, and so that that and we started dating before my first

special came out so it's been like two and a half years since i came out now and my life is very different and nobody like recognized me before that and the dating that i've tried to do since then it's been weird because i just thought like i'm like I'm not like a famous person, you know, like I'm not like what like but that's the people will say I'm famous and I'm like, no, I know famous people. Right, right, right. Exactly. Like I can. But to some people you are. I'm not unknown.

I'll say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say you're more famous than me, but like me. I think you know, I don't think so. I've never been to the Mark's right but that wasn't for me uh i wasn't getting the award uh yeah but i'm saying the maybe aggregate depends on what circles yeah exactly but if you're you know it's been weird because i just thought if people you know on apps or whatever if people knew who i was they would say it they would just come right out and say it and sometimes they do and then more often

people will pretend they don't know and then i like catch them gold male gold diggers are so much creepier than it's not even gold like it's like i don't know if it's gold it might just be like i don't know if it's an ego boost i don't know like but it's been a weird thing where i'm like it's it's like hard because i i'm like do i have to dial it back again and be less trusting because like i've never worried about being like an ego boost for somebody i've never worried that somebody was just like even if you're just somebody with a lot of followers online like people could be influenced by that I have a question which is how did you get over the voice in your head that was suspicious how did you what did you do I don't know that I have I mean I think if you're hyper vigilant at nine yeah and you're

doing you know I'm sure you were perfectionist and yeah etc etc and super precocious and all the things you i'm betting you are even based on like i'm you're precocious in comedy whatever so what's been the the uh procedure and in in terms of like lessening it if there has been i think a lot of therapy and i think also i was like this isn't really fair to the other person and it would i would come out of relationships and this is like very recent i would come out of relationships feeling like i had not given it my best or like given it my all because i was like well you were so suspicious and you were so shitty in the beginning like you were just like well you're this you know like and oh yeah you waste the first two months yeah not even paying attention like just fucking the i'm assuming the worst and whatever yeah exactly and it's it's just not great because even if it didn't work out for

whatever reason on some level you're like oh oh, but I should have been better. And the thing about being hypervigilant is you're really hard on yourself all the time and you go back and replay everything you've ever done wrong. That's good. Yeah, it's great. That's good news. But then I don't know that me going into situations being really trusting has benefited me either because Cause that's sort of,

that's sort of different. Is pick your poison. I feel better about myself after I feel, I feel like, well, I, I kept my side of the street clean. Yeah,

no, I had that this year. I had a girlfriend for a couple of months and like, she broke up with me and it was, I was heartbroken and I, but i was like no i stand by everything i did yeah which is kind of all you can do they're probably not going to work anyway right you have a joke i don't know if it's in three mics or if i just i think it's in three mics the joke about um how your friends told you like those girls only want to date you because

you're famous and you're like yeah but me being famous is something i did yeah like i meant to do like that was something about me yeah like yeah so that's like the weird thing i'm experiencing right now where i'm like i mean i want somebody to like this but you well yeah that's the thing where people go i didn't watch any of your stuff you're like you can watch it right like i don't want you to not understand first of all it's like for you and i especially it is a bit of like a fucking medical chart rx it's like huh right um like save me some time yeah no it really is just like yeah i can tell you about my family like in three months or you just watch it no i don't think you're spying on me no um but i yeah i guess girls have to worry about it more or not more i would say i kind of think girls need to worry

about fame less really why because any i think society would is uh smiles upon a man uh a man with money or status supporting a woman like that's a role that society accepts whereas a woman with money and status supporting a man the guy's a fucking bum but why do we have to worry about that well you because fewer men are doing it oh yeah oh you mean in terms of people just using you yeah for yeah i guess but even if it's not that i that's why i said like it's not necessarily gold digging it's like because even if someone like didn't know who i was and we went out or something they they'd find out well that's the thing they if they have female friends who are in their 20s and 30s and they go

I went out with a comedian named Taylor they're gonna be like oh my god yeah yeah it's just weird I've just never been in that and I'm so like

I'm nothing you just realize it's not anything I mean that's the thing of it is it's just not you're basically the same person

yeah so it's everybody else is reacting differently yeah as long as too much of the reaction doesn't seep in right you're you remain intact yeah uh so it is a little odd but it's kind of meaningless it's only meaningful if if i'm with somebody like you and you get recognized, it's only meaningful if you think I should think of you differently now.

If you take the glow of someone recognizing you and then you look at me and be like, so where were we? Right. No, I'm embarrassed. Yes, it's embarrassing. And it triggers something for me, I think, because, I don't know, my dad and I didn't have a great relationship. And then like the second I started doing stand up, when I started doing stand up and I was like good at it, it was like he was interested again.

but likes that this thing I do impresses people. And I just hate feeling like that in relationships where you're like, I don't know. I don't know if this is about me or if you just like how this looks. Yeah. You know, or like maybe you just like that. I like you.

Like, I don't know. It's just, it's really hard to navigate. And I'm not speaking about it very eloquently because I'm so new to it. No, no, you're not wrong. I mean, I would say that the thing I've noticed with my female comedy friends, comedians, I call them. Because I'm the host of Star Search in 1988. You just have to deal with the power imbalance. You make a really good living.

And you have a lot of status and you're a business. And that's a thing that's a little, to a guy, it's a little shocking. But that could change at any time. Of course, but it could not change. You know how tenuous it is. Yeah. You know, you remember open mics.

You remember cruise ships. You remember all, you remember struggle. No, that is invisible to people and it's might as well have not happened yeah most people see you as on the lady on Netflix so like the so that's what you're up against that's the hard part about I think being a uh powerful successful woman less so than uh like being prey to a predator it's more about the guy feeling undercut by your success even though a healthy man would be proud of you you know or or think it's cool or whatever it's just hard it's a lot of cultural noise for the

guy to deal with like but then if they're proud of you that could be that could be the thing we're talking about earlier of like they're just like they think it's cool that somebody on netflix the reflected glory thing i just think that it society doesn't like it that's the good the good news is society doesn't like a guy like i know but, but it can be like. I'm with you. I believe the other thing is a bigger. The power thing is in my.

And because of that, I get very nervous about that happening, even if it's not happening. But I get nervous that whoever I'm with is going to feel that way if I'm dating some guy like. And so I go out of my way to be like, you're so much better than me. I'll write jokes where I'm like, he's too good for me. To help offset that of like, oh, he's too good for me. He's better than me. He's a better person. He's better looking than me.

Just to go like, hey, don't feel weird about this. I think you're amazing. I don't see it that this like i think you're i think you're amazing like i don't i don't see it that way like i think you're too good for me like true and can i give you some unsolicited advice stop it don't do that it doesn't work stop it just stop it because like no you can't dim your light for something like you fucking can't because it's not honest and i don't think that you're a party but you're if you're competent you can't compensate for the guy right like you kind of can't you can say like your dick's a man you can do like that stuff but you can't don't say he's a better person no but tell him his dick is amazing like it's the you can those are admissible lies right um but you can't uh try to make him feel better in a way that's dishonest

i know that's the thing yeah that's not but in those situations your light it's it's hard because it's like sometimes i do feel that way sometimes i'm saying it to offset that like i i don't tell me he's better than you unless he's legitimately better than you right and then really focus on it yeah i'm kidding um then you should yeah then yeah um so hyper vigilance and again all this stuff is is that there is an upside to it you know what i mean yeah like all of these blocks have yeah and it's like who i i do think i'm a very good partner now i think i've worked on myself i think i'm like open i think I'm a very good partner now. I think I've worked on myself. I think I'm like open. I think I'm honest.

I think I'm vulnerable. And I think I, I mean, look, like I'm doing very well in my career. And I think that also helps make me a better partner. And yeah, if somebody was perfect for me and loved me and took care of me like I have enough money you know like it doesn't matter how much like I'm not one of these people that's like they have to be on my level oh well here's an interesting thing and this is what I'm talking about with society and gender norms and the thing that you have to be careful of so i dated a woman a couple years ago like i'm successful and she was more successful than i am and she had an assistant and one night

i slept over and a male assistant i think he was gay he was making a smoothie a morning smoothie uh for the woman i was dating and he goes can i make you a smoothie and i was like nah like to me somehow it was like undercutting my i would have let her make me a smoothie right but i'm not gonna let her make money to get an assistant and they make me a smoothie. That's the dumb. And he's like, it's another banana. Like, it's not a huge deal, man. Yeah, but it's what the banana represented.

That was my issue. I'll get my assistant to make me a smoothie. This is the least relatable podcast ever. No, no, but what i'm saying that's what you're gonna have to deal with and i'm like fairly reformed do you know what i mean like i'm fairly think about this shit and i'm still like no i don't like this i instantly become a fucking guido from the 30s where i'm like nah no girl of mine that's what'm, that's the thing that you're, the dumb shit that you're going to have to worry about in dating. It's like the more education a woman has, the worse her romantic prospects are.

Women with doctorates are less married than women with undergrad. Right. So that's what you should be hyperventilating about. You're like, you're afraid of this? Have you thought about this? Any successful relationship is a lot of luck. True. You just got to meet the right person.

And I'm sure you're cycling through types where you go, well, maybe if I date a guy in comedy. Maybe if I date a guy not in comedy. Maybe if I date a guy that doesn't live near me like right what are you trying can you tell me that have you ever have you consciously gone through it no i think your next relationship there's always a piece of it that's a reaction to what didn't work in your last relationship or what you didn't have in your last relationship like you know I dated somebody again who was in comedy and lived across the country from me and I would not have been open to that if I hadn't just gone through a difficult breakup where I like thought I found my person and then it

fell apart and then I was like well clearly I don't know anything and i was trying very hard to find somebody with these specific qualities and in this specific area and whatever and then i met somebody who you know long distance is really hard it's it's it's never worked once it's so hard and if neither of you're gonna move like it just is what it is but i was like but like what do i know clearly nothing so i think sometimes when you're in a place of i thought i i thought i was really careful and even when you're careful it doesn't work so you go i don't know anything and i you know who cares who knows no i know it's who fucking knows and then like to a point right Right. And then you know. There's got to be some parameters like, all right, this is silly. Right.

But I get the impulse of like, I don't fucking know. Yeah. No idea. And you're like, oh, I'll just date whoever I have really strong chemistry with and just fuck the logistics. Like that kind of thing. But I've cycled through like different lifestyles for sure. And I don't know. I'm in a place now where, again, it's like,

I was talking to somebody about this last night where I'm like, yeah, usually when I'm single, I just like focus on work. And I'm like, wow, just focus on her. And every time I do that, if, you know, if it goes well and I get another special or I gain more followers or something like, well, that's going to make dating and making friends and all this stuff that makes it hard. It makes it harder the more I focus on work. So that's sort of this like standstill of like, what do I do? What should I be focused on right now?

still of like what do i do what should i be focused on right now as you're talking i was just thinking a lot of life is you ever watch like baseball or sports where like people will put like a their hat inside out like like maybe this will work yeah a lot of life is like maybe this will work and just you just try a bunch of maybes yeah and then you die yeah i mean ultimately like that's you just go i'll try this and it does some and it can work it's like we're just putting tape and fucking on a car we're trying to get things shaking and you're like this is i this lasted me 10 years yeah this kind of silly idea yeah but do you do you because i love your special thank you and you talk about not wanting to have kids and not really believing in marriage and like is that is that really how you feel like you don't do not care if you get married do not

marriage i would i look or not even marriage just being with somebody forever i would love to be with somebody forever yeah that's that's the like when people go like do you do one night stands i'm like i don't that's not my goal right every person i so much as kiss i hope i i hope that's the last one right legitimately like i'm not doing it because i'm a sociopath i don't think i think i'm just like ah yeah ah it's it's like didn't quite work yeah so the kids thing i don't want i don't i don't want kids because i just have never all of my goals. I've like manifested in my mind.

It's like I would like to do that. I would like to have done that. I would like to achieve that or whatever. Kids has never been one of them. Interesting. And it's part of it is the being afraid I won't love them and all that stuff. But a part of it is like just never occurred to me. Oh, interesting. Just never occurred to me oh interesting just never occurred to me as a thing and maybe it's birth order because i'm the youngest so i never

really like raised a little guy my nieces and nephews i was like 13 when they were born so it didn't feel like i never experienced like having a younger person around and, and helping them become, help them raise them. Yeah. I just never, it's just one of those things that more or less has just never occurred to me. And maybe it's because I'm selfish or all the things I listed, but,

but it just never occurred to me. So when you say you really want kids, right? Yeah. Yeah. I'm scared to have them. And I don't know if i should how come because i'm so terrified of something happening to my siblings that i go i'm going to sign up for more of this fear like this is wait horrifying your siblings or your children my younger siblings

and now in oh you worry that if you have a kid that worry will just be it'll be a thousand times worse yeah and it's already excruciating i'm like i already have three younger people i'm terrified for constantly and i'm gonna make more of those like and i i it never occurred to me that this is a block ladies and gentlemen yeah one of my blocks is children uh and the fear of having them and the fear of not having and also the really strong primal desire yeah and when i'm when i'm with somebody that i can see that future with it's stronger like that's when you're like i'm gonna have a kid with this person yeah and then you're alone and you're kind of like okay like we could we could do a few more years of just me. And that's when I'm really aware of the fact that I'm terrified all the time. And a kid is just signing up for so much love but so much fear.

So much fear all the time. There are times where I don't think I could take a divorce. Oh my God, yeah. I look at people going through a divorce. Oh my God, yeah. Like, I don't know. I look at people going through a divorce and I'm like, I'm not sure I could handle that. Oh, I absolutely could. Every breakup I go through,

I'm like, I can never do this again. I'm like, I can never do this again. Losing people is so difficult for me. Why? I know, it's a mystery you're so weak i find this is what i'm taking you have no basis for that what are you it's all paranoia with you i know i know no no but yeah that you scare fear of losing people so afraid of losing people and then every time i do even if i saw it coming or you know knew it wouldn't work out or whatever or for whatever reason if i ended if they ended if it's just circumstances if it's a really adult mature like whatever it is i am always devastated because i'm losing somebody I cared about and was friends with and, you know, to whatever degree believed in and whatever level of seriousness I was.

But I could probably deal with a divorce. I could not deal with like a child dying. I couldn't deal with that. What if they were kidnapped? Oh, my God. Worse. Have you watched the movie Prisoners, by the way yes it's it haunts my i just watched it two nights ago i never i'd always heard it was good i was like oh this is really good it's really good it's so dark i can't ever watch it again but it's so good yeah um it's kidnapping. And also, yeah, and like kidnapping infrastructure, which is always terrifying.

Like how, where are you keeping them? Yeah. What sort of like system have you rigged? Yeah. Terrifying. So horrible. What kind of liquids? Yeah.

This is the problem. And again, you can, one of my blocks is anxiety. Yeah. This is the problem. And again, one of my blocks is anxiety. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones

and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We're your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at dignitymemorial.ca. I, I, I'm so scared all the time of the worst possible thing happening and it's like i have a joke about it in my hour right now of like the worst thing that happens is usually the thing you didn't think of and that's why you can never really let your guard down ever because your brain goes well if you worry about it it won't happen and you go that's stupid shut up but then the stuff you didn't worry about is what happens and you go see i knew it like on stage, I go, I think COVID was my fault.

Like that was the one thing. Like, did anyone else feel like that? When everything shut down? Like I knew I forgot something. Yeah. I knew it. I just didn't. The stove.

Yeah. It came from your stove. Yes. Everything locked down the week after my first special came out. Yeah. And I was like, wow, I was worried about everything else but this yeah happening nothing is ever as bad as you think it's gonna be even bad stuff but i would say mom dying as bad as you could have imagined never occurred to me right never occurred to me so there's no i believed in jesus jesus was gonna

take care of me yeah you know i think that there's a hierarchy of anxiety so you were at some point you're probably worried about succeeding you succeeded and you think well then my anxiety is going to be reduced 30 no no no full full amount of anxiety now it's just proportioned in different ways it's just a point like no i'm gonna give 10 of that success anxiety to my agent there you go um like or i'm gonna worry about my relationship with some like whatever parking fucking some being a black mold that's a great one for women um it's number one number one for women black mold aging murder black mold yes yeah all right so you have one of your blocks was drinking yeah and you talk about this in your special that you

don't drink and that's very isolating and i feel the exact same way and it's another reason i never hung out is because like i i don't drink like i i opened for bert a few times when i was like 22 23 i don't know and he since told me he's like oh yeah i didn't like you when i first met you because you would just do your set and you'd like crush but then you'd just go back to your hotel like you wouldn't hang out and i'm like i don't drink like i'm not what am i gonna go do at a bar that drink don't understand like it's useless to be around people that are drinking if you don't drink yeah it's weird and it makes you feel like you're not fun and you're a bad time and and you kind of are yeah and you also feel

like you're never in the group no it everything feels like yeah yeah yeah guys yeah you're trying to stand in a circle like you're not there you don't have any lighting you're like yeah i did that too yeah okay i'm gonna come back here now that now that i've ruined your good time yeah but why don't you drink because i have a lot of alcoholism in my family and then a lot of people in my family who don't drink because of the alcoholic parent they had. And then I was raised with that fear of like, don't even find out if you're an alcoholic. Like it's don't drink. Why would you drink?

You're probably an alcoholic. Like that's what's in my head. Have you never touched it? I've had, I've had drinks. I've never been drunk. I've never done that. I'll drink if now i'm less scared of it where like if a friend of mine's like let's get a drink i'm like i'll drink half of it

but that's the thing is you don't they're largely ornamental if you get if you're at a party and you get a uh tonic water with a lime and it's assumed it's gin and tonic people will assume you're with us exactly you'll know that you're with us. Exactly. You'll know that you're like, I don't understand. I don't relate to anything you guys are feeling or saying. Yeah. But you can at least fake it. And that's more, that's kind of all they want.

Right. But having social anxiety is already so isolating. And then to be around people who are, you know, drinking and like lubricating their social anxiety and making it easier for themselves to be out and you're not doing that and you're socially anxious it's just like you're just you just feel like an animatronic yeah whatever at disneyland like you're just literally are like move your arm up yeah like okay Three, two, one. Okay, good job. Yeah, it makes you incredibly self-conscious. Yeah, and then I resent people who can get drunk and experience that relief in those situations.

Yeah, well, that's the thing I always forget about alcohol is that most people are just dealing with anxiety, which is not – I don't have anxiety. I have depression, so i don't need to like be eased the reason i don't drink is because the only time i've ever wanted to get drunk is alone where i'm like i'd love to feel something different and i know that could make me feel different and i'm curious if it would be better if i let myself have that coping mechanism as well that's the only time i've ever wanted to explore it i've never wanted to like let's just get drunk tonight and be friends with everybody i'm like let's see if that could help me yeah that's not right as like change my anxiety change my is it my just general disposition

that too i think there was a point in my early 20s where I almost got drunk, almost as like an experiment, just to see like, how do you feel? Do you feel more fun? Like, we're gonna do a test drive of this alone, and then maybe we'll take it out. And you like set up dummies in your house, like, hello, hey, you guys want to fucking do trivia yeah i and some i think i also felt i just felt outside of everything and i was like the fact that you don't even know what you're like drunk is so lame give it a chance give it a chance write some jokes like i think i fucking had sex for the first time because because i started doing stand-up when i was 16 i think i had sex for the first time partially because i was like i want to like talk about this on stage that's funny like i'm a clean comedian because i've never had sex like i just want to be a person in the world person i need to do i need to be like do stuff middles do yeah i was like i need to like be in i need to be in society that's so funny i the thing with drinking is there's no

solution as an elder i can tell you that's just you just drink a little or fake it or in turn and in terms of dealing with social anxiety do you get a lot out of group dynamics because that's the thing i really like one-on-one conversations yeah and beyond that i find it kind of like this is not uh fortifying yeah i agree i think one-on-one conversations for me are invigorating and then a group situation even if i have fun is depleting yeah like the improv did like their holiday party last night and i went and did a set and then i was hanging out with a bunch of people i'm friends with and i like and it was really fun and i was so glad i went and i and i never do that and i still got in

my car afterward and was like oh you know like yeah there was a feeling of like oh we were so like my my we're on e yeah you know and i had a great time and i was so glad i saw everybody and it was awesome and i was still exhausted but if you had just had dinner with one person you like same amount of time yeah totally different you don't go right you don't go okay yeah you know i mean it depends on the person but like yeah having dinner with like my best you just go on your phone and get anxiety that way right you know what's so funny is like how are you with social media not good not good like you don't like it you don't use it no i love it i mean i love it and i have to take it off my phone and i have to

really do you like tiktok here's the good news about tiktok i don't i don't like the interface it's too disorganized for me is it i like i'm i have a very linear brain so like i like the way the other apps are laid out where it's like then next and i can see a little bit of the last one and the next one and i can go back and i can see eight things tiktok is just tiktok feels like a chinese shopping mall to me that's interesting it feels very to me it feels very immersive i like that like i i got on tiktok like most people during lockdown and was like oh this is hilarious and obviously it's grown so much and I actually like I think it's really great when I'm depressed because it's so distracting and I think you know you could use it too much of course and there are times I go through stretches where I'm

I'm burnt out on TikTok I can't do that um but like and TikTok's the only one where I read the comments on other people's videos because I'm genuinely interested in what people think so that's funny that you you're actually pro pro the distraction of it when I'm when I'm depressed I am yeah or or when I'm like really really anxious in those situations I'm just like freaking out or I'm like really really sad and sometimes watching what's your depression feel like from because I was used to say mine felt like a low grade uh it's my I was diagnosed with dysthymia, which is like low grade, lack of joy. Yeah. And I used to yell at therapists like, it's in my body.

I can talk about this endlessly. And I did. But eventually, it just felt like it was in my body. So I'm curious what it's like. That's how I feel too. And that was what my therapist in high school told me. It's in your body? Oh, dysthymia also said she goes i think you're depressed because you're so anxious she goes you're so scared all the time that it makes you depressed do you think anxiety is worse than depression i personally think anxiety is worse because i've had i had anxiety for like maybe eight months at

one point and i was like and i'd had depression forever and i was like oh this is fucking worse because it's like getting uh tased a little bit all the time and it's hard to fake it's hard to fake uh not having it where's depression you can be like, ha, ha, ha. That's so interesting. I feel maybe the opposite. I feel like I can't fake it when I'm depressed. And you can channel anxiety into like, I'm just excited. I'm just productive.

It's that nervous energy. If you can just harness it, it's fine. And maybe it's because I'm used to it. I don't know. And again, it feels like a driving force in my life, especially professionally. You know, and I think a lot of comedians feel like this as far as dealing with their mental health goes. It's like, oh, if I get better, I won't be funny or I won't be driven or I won't be. Depression makes me not want to do anything.

Depression makes me go like like this is fucking pointless like what are why am i doing that like i'm just gonna die like who cares about that like why am i here and anxiety at least i'm like at least i'm contributing something right at least i'm being productive. I try to achieve my way out of depression. Oh, you do? My depression's in some form of remission, I would say. But I used to try to achieve, get an adrenaline spike out of the depression. See, I try to achieve out of anxiety.

I go, I'm so anxious. If I'm perfect, I won't be anxious anymore if I'm successful I won't be nervous in this green room anymore not true depression doesn't make me want to achieve my way out of anything depression makes me go I don't I don't care about anything and anxiety makes me a good and I think a lot of people probably like this like anxiety makes me a better partner co-worker employer and put whatever it makes me better and depression makes me worse and depression makes me go like this is there's no point trying and anxiety is like try harder. Do you find that your anxious brain is a better rider? Yeah.

My depressed brain is. And depression is so hard because when I'm depressed, I know it'll pass, but it doesn't feel like it's going to. And I have to go. And anxiety is kind of like this too in certain ways, like a panic attack is. Where you go, I know this is going to pass. It feels like it never will. And so I just have to like white knuckle it until this passes and not ruin anything.

Like I have to not destroy anything while I'm panicking or depressed. Because I know it'll pass, but I really don't feel like it will this time. One of the advantages of aging is you're aware that things are going to pass. Because I used to hear like this too shall pass. Fucking fuck you. Yeah. It never will pass. And then you just go, oh, I don't even care about that a little bit anymore.

Yeah. And I've gotten mentally healthier healthier but that's been a huge that's one of the biggest time really is the best topical ointment like it will it heals faster than anything yeah your immune system gets like scabs take longer to heal the older you get, but emotional scabs heal faster. Yeah. Also, this is for the white people in the room. I think he already knows what I'm going to say. I said white knuckling one time in the breakfast club and realized as I was saying it, oh, this is only a white thing.

Oh, no. Anyone not white does not have white knuckles this is just a thing to think about i look say it around white people still just know that if you're around no i literally said it and charlotte was like what the fuck is white knuckles and i was like oh oh no good one you're right yeah okay done with that one yeah no you don't have to be done with it it's just a thing to remember yeah say pink knuckle um you've got the big one which is just mental health and which is obviously where we've this is all mental health i guess my question is how how much better have you gotten from your worst in terms of all this stuff so much better and how did you do it so much better meds and therapy like i think i was probably at my worst the summer before I filmed my first special.

What was the cause of it? I had an engagement fall apart and I was not aware of... I was in therapy, but I wasn't... And I was doing like EMDR, but I just wasn't... There's just a lot of information about myself I didn't have. I feel like a different person than I was when I was 24. didn't have. I feel like a different person than I was when I was 24. I have a hard time connecting with that memory of myself because I just felt like my emotions were in charge. I just felt like they were moving all the levers. They were making me do I was completely at the mercy of my own moods and now I don't feel that way anymore and I and part of that is also just getting older too but like perimenopausal

but I yeah I'm I feel like a very a very different person and it's why and look at you i talk so much about mental health and like my journey with that and why i talked about getting diagnosed as bipolar oh that was really shocking to me was it it was when i was watching that because i don't is it bipolar 2 or it's bipolar i guess i don't know many people with bipolar too, but bipolar is so clear to me. Right. Well, two is like the way it's been explained to me is like less severe. Like it's hypomania instead of mania. And for me, when I was hypomanic, you know, I would usually like break up with whoever I was dating and move.

Like those were my things. And I'd get like really productive and I'd get really focused. So these are windows, like a six week window or a... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like, it has to be like at least like four days.

So it would be anywhere from like four days to like a month or something. And does it feel good? Oh my God, it feels incredible. It feels like you're like, I was talking to a friend of mine who's also bipolar and we were talking about how it feels. And I was talking to a friend of mine who's also bipolar and we were talking about how it feels.

And I was like, you know, the parts in movies where someone's walking in slow motion and we can hear the voiceover in their head. Like, here's what I've learned about. Like, that's how it feels. You feel like you're the person in the movie walking slowly and you're narrating and everyone's listening like it feels it feels amazing and you feel like whatever decisions you're making it's for the best this is fate like i'm gonna be fine be great and then but the the trouble with that is there's always a crash and that's the depressive episode afterward and that's when you regret everything and feel terrible and feel suicidal

and all those other things and it's just not worth it it's just not worth the well that's when people are worried about kanye and i it's a tragedy yeah but he thinks he's crushing it right now right yeah and i think bipolar one is when you know you think you're god or you're talking to god and you're like you actually are hospitalized and stuff like that's the difference but that's why because people don't know people are weak well it's it's so with their square thinking it was hard to to narrow down to because i i we like found what medication worked for me and every all the medications i was on were like four bipolar primarily and so I like went back to the I think I talked to my therapist like the week I had

and I was saying like I got this apartment and I did this and I made all these decisions and she goes okay it sounds like maybe you were a little like hypomanic at the time and I was like what's that and she was like don't freak out she goes it's not it's only when it's over like four days and I was like well that was I mean it's been like a week or so and she was like, don't freak out. She goes, it's not, it's only when it's over like four days. And I was like, well, I mean, it's been like a week or so. And she was like, oh, then we should talk to your psychiatrist. And then, you know, they were kind of like, well, yeah, you, you haven't like, you didn't make any like huge, like horrific, like life altering mistakes. So we didn't necessarily notice that like i can justify any functional bipolar yeah kind of that's how but it's it was hell like it was hell and including the voiceover parts and

like the mastery yeah and the hypomania too like you're also really in between feeling amazing you're also like really irritable you just don't trust yourself ever and you just can't and you don't really know and now i like i trust myself i have a clear view of things i handle things correctly and i don't just like you know do whatever i'm feeling without any thought of the consequences or whatever. The idea of not trusting yourself and or trusting yourself is interesting to me. That when you're hypomanic, you're not. Yeah, that you can't.

And when you're depressed, you can't. Like your brain's just not, it's not balanced. You're like sitting on one side of the teeter-totter. Because you grew up so religious and your father still religious, and I'm assuming it's part of the tension or whatever, I had a thought watching you, which is like, do you pray? No.

Not anymore. When did that stop? So do you believe in a god i don't know yep i i have no idea i think i got to a point it was really difficult in my early 20s and my late teens because i grew up when i was like 20 i like dated an atheist and i was like so you don't have that little voice in your head that is like but there's God he goes no I was like you so what did your parents tell you growing up he's like I got scared of death and they said yeah you're gonna die but you're gonna live a good life first and I was like what like I couldn't even wrap my head around the fact that there were people who never thought about God like I was always taught that everybody has this yearning in their heart and

their soul and their brain going, there is something bigger and I know it and I don't know what it is. And all they need is for you to say at VBS, like, hey, it's... What's VBS? It's Vacation Bible School. They were always trying to get us to recruit in like middle school and high school. Like bring your friends. This is when we get them. And they really told us that they were like, people are, they want an opportunity to be told like, there's God and here he is and here's the book. And they're like, oh, that's what that yearning's been. And there are people whose parents never raised them with religion and they don't have that. And so where I got to eventually is I was like i don't know if there's something else i'm

not against it i don't really have strong feelings one way or the other i do what i do believe is that if there is something else and there's a good chance there is whatever it is we cannot figure it out we cannot wrap our heads around it so why are we we're trying but it it's not something that we're gonna on yeah that's what i came to i taught in the special where i the the dmt fucking strobe part what i came to was like oh this is i experienced the central creation force and was like oh this is so far past my comprehension it's cute that people try yeah it's like oh that's cute and the stories and then he said this and then he came down and he was he had props and like that's all nice but there's no fucking way you can comprehend it yep do you wish you did have a frame or do you wish you do you miss

the simplicity of it do you feel guilty about not believing do you feel i say i missed the certainty but i never had the certainty i'm jealous of the certainty that people i know right that was the thing is like when my mom died i was like everybody, everybody said, well, we're going to see her again. It's okay. We're going to see her again. And I never felt that way. And I felt so guilty because I was like, well, clearly I'm not believing right. I'm not believing enough. I'm not a good Christian.

Because everybody else is so sure that we're going to see her again. And I just don't feel like I'm going to. And that was very disorienting. And I think kind of where everything stemmed from. I was always really scared of hell. I never felt like there was a heaven. That's funny. That's a funny.

I think that's more common than you think. Yeah. Like, cause it's so, they're both pretty cinematic, but like one's visceral. Yeah. And one's like, imagine one's like you get burnt and you're like, oh fuck, I haveceral. Yeah. And one's like, imagine, one's like, you get burnt and you're like, oh, fuck,

I have fire. Yeah. Whereas Heaven's just like, no, it's just nice and chill and you're like, I can't, there's no,

there's no sensation to that. Yeah. It's just like, no, it's cool. It's like a fucking four seasons. Yeah. Taylor,

Tomlinson, everybody. It was excellent. Thank you. I'm sorry this wasn't funnier. No one cares. All you have to do is open, open up your hand. My man.