Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - Trevor Noah

Episode Date: May 16, 2024

Neal Brennan interviews Trevor Noah ('The Daily Show,' 'What Now?,' 'Born a Crime,' 'Where Was I' & more on Netflix) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- Subscribe to  @trevornoah   Follow What Now? w/ Trevor Noah on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/122imavATqSE7eCyXIcqZL -------------------------- 00:00 Intro 2:48 Life Defined by Race 4:36 Born a Crime: Growing up in Apartheid South Africa 12:10 Is there a value to trauma?  13:55 Diffusing Conflict & Communication 20:20 Relationship w/ Parents 24:01 Depression & ADHD 30:48 Ketamine Therapy 32:38 Diagnosis vs. Medication 34:50 Romantic Relationships 48:50 Two Racial Topics for Neal’s White Audience 1:00:35 What He Makes of Life Overall ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Blocks Podcast. I'm Neil Brennan, and we talk about the things that make us feel like something's wrong with us, and then people relate to us, and we all feel better. My guest today is a long-time... We've got to be going on 13 or 14 years, you and me. Easily. People use the word journey too much. me and this guy have been on a real journey uh he's got five netflix specials he's the former host of the daily show and uh he's a great person and someone i actually admire with no asterisks. He's taught me a lot and he's here now. It's Trevor Noah,

ladies and gentlemen. Oh, man. Trevor Noah, everybody. Neil Grimley, everybody. What's going on, Neil? Hey, buddy. Did you say we talk about what's wrong with us?

On this podcast. By the way, you and I talk about what's wrong with us. I thought Blox was just like, I don't know, like building blocks for a comedy set. Nope. No, sir. Mental and emotional blocks. wrong with this i thought blocks was just like i don't know like building blocks for comedy sets or

no no sir mental and emotional blocks oh i came to the wrong place uh no the thing i was saying about trevor looks like he's not only does he not have problems he doesn't even know anyone who has problems but this guy has legitimate problems he wrote a book about it that's a runaway best seller i listened to it after knowing him for 10 years and learn actually learn something from it it's also a great entry into audiobooks like you're a good you have a nice you've got a british accent you've got a nice tone. Hashtag colonization. We did it. It's not all bad.

I've been saying that. It isn't all bad. I've been saying that. But I will, as I was driving over here, I was thinking about you. By the way, loves driving. Was going to drive for Uber at one point. He just loves driving. Yeah, that was my dream.

Yeah, loves driving. He's lost his flair for television but uh for video but he used to be one of the best um you all right here's what i want we're gonna get in with with with we'll talk about race in that your life is defined in a lot of ways and has been or had been defined by race yeah your mother was a black south african and your father was a swiss white man yeah they still are great and they were also yeah um and you were born a crime hence the name of the book your life has been defined by race, but I also find that you're kind of bored and or disinterested by it. About what? My life?

No, about race. No, I think bored is the wrong word for it. I don't think bored is the right word, but do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, your feeling about it is like… No, okay, so here's how I'll put it. It's funny. It's like, I think everybody's life is defined by race, but I think I was unlucky or lucky enough to have it like put in. To know it.

Yeah, to like know it. You know, I think a lot of people don't know that it's happening to them for good or bad, funny enough. you know, there's, there's, it's like, like I always, I try and explain to people as I go, um,

being the race that you are is like having a badge, you know, like, like those doors that you have at companies to let you indoors. You know what I mean? Those little badges that you go and swipe. And then some people don't understand why their badges on swiping the bet, but they don't know they have the badge. Right.

Does that make sense? Yeah. It's a fob that they don't know. And then some people are just like, what are you talking about? The door opens all the time. And then other people are like, that door doesn't like me. I think it's I think it's yeah, I think it's omnipresent. I think it's continuous. I also think it's ridiculous. That's maybe my my favorite thing about race. Maybe that's the thing. I think it's it itself. I don't find ridiculous. But I mean, when you grow up in a country where people define things, like the government says like, this is what race is and this is how we're going to run the country based on it. You start to realize how stupid the whole thing is. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

Like you're one tan away from not having a good time. That's basically what South Africa was back in the day. That's insane. And I believe you. I'm sure there are people that got tan and were locked up. Yeah. Yeah. You just won tan, and then it was like, well, you might need to move. Or stay inside. And you couldn't go outside at times, right?

Yeah, but I didn't know. I didn't know. So I don't have... His grandmother, according to the book and according to what you've told me, would explain the law to people. Well, so it was weird. So, okay, just it's really simple. You go, a country is run by some law to people. Well, so it was weird. So, okay, just, it's really simple. You go, a country is run by some very racist people.

They believe that everyone should be governed by race. White people at the top, black people at the bottom, all the other shades in between, right? And you can move up or down in the rankings, you know? So sort of like soccer, football, as we call it. But like, you can get promotion, you can get relegated like, like soccer, football, as we call it, but like you can get promotion, you can get relegated, um, depending on your skin color and your hair. Um, so what was weird for me was technically speaking, my dad was superior to me and then my mom was inferior to me.

So my mom's side of the family would be inferior because of the color of my skin. And then my dad's side would be, um, superior. But then because of that, my gran was terrified. She was terrified that people would take me away because they couldn't. I would love to sit down one day with somebody who like worked in the apartheid government or who ran the system to try and understand it from their point of view. I guess they didn't want that either because it just upended their rules or because it exposes the fact that black people and white people can have sex and make things. Right. So it was illegal for your mother and father to sleep with each other. Yeah, no, fully illegal.

Fully, fully illegal. Which is what made it so hot. And so therefore you were not – you were actually born across like literally you would have been taken you probably would have been taken away no no not not probably definitely if they knew i would have definitely been taken away and you said to walk on the other side of the street from your mother yeah well no my mom would walk with me but she would just act like she was my she would act like she was my nanny so she would dress up like a nanny and then walk me through the streets and just be like,

I'm walking someone else's kid. And everyone was like, yeah, that makes sense. What's interesting is you, I hear you say this and. Like, think of it this way. Think of it this way. It's so weird to try and explain this

in this day and age. But imagine if a black person and a white person having a baby, the baby came out Japanese. Right. But nobody really knew this because it wasn't allowed. And so then you saw a black woman walking down the street with a Japanese baby, you know, pushing them in a stroller. Yeah. You wouldn't assume that the baby is hers, especially if she's dressed like a nanny.

So my mom knew this. She intuitively knew that people did not fully understand that this thing could come out of her. So no one would even question her when she said it. You know what I mean? Yeah, you were just alien. Yeah, because they're just like, oh yeah, got a little baby there that's different.

But you did feel very loved and cared for by your mom. Oh, completely. That's what's so interesting about it. It's like, while it was fraught, she could still deliver the nutrients. Yeah, completely. That's what's so interesting about it. It's like it, while it was fraught, it's, she's could still deliver the nutrients. Yeah, completely.

I think any parent who wants to can deliver the nutrients. It's sort of like that movie. Did you ever watch that movie? It was the Brie Larson room. Yeah. So the thing I, the thing I loved about that movie was it, while it was a painful story of like a mother and child being kidnapped and kept underground

it was an amazing story of how like your parents can literally define your reality yeah so that kid the room was the world and everything was fine and the kid just wasn't allowed to go to certain places but that was life the kid was loved the kid was nurtured the kid would you know what i mean yeah of course what that's why i think we take for granted that sometimes your parents you can be living in in a in a beautiful place and your parents can make it feel like you're in hell yeah yeah yeah it's it can be you can be rich and unloved or completely dirt broke no no completely so i'm i'm really lucky like i i grew up in a world where you know my, my mom has since apologized. She said, you know, she, she didn't appreciate nor fully understand the ramifications of a child not having

their dad there for them all the time. But I do think I was lucky in that she, she intended this from the beginning. So there was no fracture in my life. Yeah. Explain that. I will meet people who like their parents had a divorce and I can see the pain and they go like, oh, I blamed myself. And I was like, did my dad leave because of, did my mom, but it wasn't because I had none of that because there was no fracture. There was no, my mom said to my dad, I want a child. My dad was like, I don't want a child. She's like, yeah, that's none of my business.

I just need you to facilitate this. And I think she wanted him because she knew that he wouldn't try and control her or her child. So she would have the autonomy that she wanted in life. And then lucky for me, I guess, he wanted to be a part of my life when I was born. But even then, my mom was like, we had a deal, buddy. What do you mean you want to see the kid? And how did she deal with it?

Like whenever he... She was like kind about it, but she was very you mean you want to see the kid? And how did she deal with it? Like, whenever he... She was, like, kind about it, but she was very much like, you do understand the deal. This is my child. And he was like, yeah, but I want to see it. She, like, smacked the agreement. Right here, buddy.

I don't know what to tell you. You signed on the page. He's right there. There, look at him. You signed on the page. You can look, but don't touch. No, no, no. She was, you know,

my mom has an innate understanding of things that she was never taught. And that's something I've always admired in her. And I think she innately understood the value of me seeing my father and being with my father, even if that wasn't the original agreement. So I spent, you know, a lot of time with him. And the time that I spent with him was focused and concentrated. So I don't even have, again, there's some memories, like you've got a great joke about it where you say like your father would disappear into a book yeah yeah yes but it's like just this idea of like i know people

who talk about their parents and they go oh yeah my dad was never really even when he was around he wasn't around and he was working on things and he was tired and no my dad was full on like door opens locked in yeah you were like we were hanging out very swiss motherfucker yeah we we're watching formula one yeah all right we we're hanging out we're eating food you want breakfast you want lunch all right we're gonna play with your toys you can see your toys you like your toys what's happening point at you the whole time what's happening what's happening fuck i'm sorry um okay and then it did get a little dicey, though, at a certain point. Your mother, beyond the government looking out for you, trying to pick you up off the street,

your mother remarried, we'll say poorly. Yeah. Yeah. And it was violent. It was indeed. That's probably the reason we're friends. That's probably the reason we're friends. That's probably the reason we get along. If it wasn't for that decision, I may have just had like a…

You'd be with Dave and Chris right now. I'd just be like a super rosy outlook and I'd just be like, you know, I don't get that Neil guy. Have you seen that Neil guy? It's a little much. There's something about him I don't get. Somebody heard someone walking out of blocks and he goes, Yo, my man got a little too introspective. something about somebody who hurts uh someone walking out of blocks and he goes uh you know my man got a little too introspective um so but we have talked about the role that violence is

played yeah in there's no comedian there's no comedian i believe there is no comedian who is very good at what they do and did not become very good at what they do because they were avoiding or you know what i mean there's there's either there's a neurodivergence involved or a neurodivergence multiplied by some sort of trauma yeah you know so you were bullied you were abandoned you were beaten you were shamed you were whatever it is it's like those are the two ingredients to make like really really good comedy which i don't know i'd love your thought on this i i've been thinking recently i go what is the value of an individual being tortured if they're going to bring joy to many people oh you mean it didn't work we jam the system no no no i mean i mean like i mean like what

is like is there a value or so for instance we live in a world where we go, we don't want anyone to be hurt, and we don't want anyone to live a tough life, and we don't want anyone to... But I sometimes think to myself, if one child growing up in a horrible world becomes Mozart, and that music then goes on to, like, make the world a better place, is it worth it? Was it worth beating little mozart yeah of course you know i've thought about this yeah of course you had to have thought about this uh it's a collateral damage thing it's it's similarly like bombing the area for to fight terrorism and you take out some civilians. No, no, no.

No, no, no. But it's the same logic of that. No, it's not. The greater good is served by... Yeah, but that one doesn't have a greater good. No, no, no. Choose another one. You're the best at analogies.

Choose another one. I don't like that one. It's like if you beat baby Mozart. But no. And then he... What I would say, I would say it's kind of worth it if Mozart can give us the compositions we need. Yeah.

And then he gets better and doesn't, because that's the situation I think I'm in. In that, like, I took my beating, I wrote my jokes, I did a bunch of stuff to feel better, and now I feel better. And I wrote the jokes and I can still write them. Yes. You're in a similar position. Right. What I would, what I'm interested in you and that we've discussed is you took the beatings and you're,

you're, I can't think of very many people better than you at diffusing, uh, I can't think of very many people better than you at diffusing conflict and making both sides feel heard. And you're like walking contrition. I've said that in the press about you before. I hear you. You are walking contrition. It's South African.

It's like why you're a good avatar for South Africa in general. Right. But when we've talked about the role violence played in getting you there, what do you make of it? I'm torn. On the one hand, I think to myself, the violence I experienced, whether it was at a country level, at a societal level, at a familial level, contributed to making me who i am but then sometimes i think maybe the only reason i survived all of that was because this is already who i am does that make sense like we we don't know for certain which way it goes we don't know where it starts and so sometimes we will say oh well you know everything that happened to me made me who i am i was like oh

maybe who you are is the only reason you survived everything that happened to you right because many people have gone through similar experiences they haven't come out the same way you know and so it it makes me hesitant and maybe even a little resentful of people who sort of justify terrible things yeah because you know bill said here yeah that's one of the things that haunts me is who was i supposed to be before all this shit happened to me he thinks about that interesting who was i who was i intended to be before the sort of huh physical abuse and and it's a it's a third option for yours which is like you were gonna be you were gonna be this without the beating that's what i think i'll be honest i think that i think that and i i think it just brings you out of you maybe a little bit more right or maybe it pushes you into you a little bit more i don't i don't know which way it goes but i i i'm not quick to accept the notion that the trauma makes the people because

i think that very same trauma breaks the people so i think i think it's something else that we might be missing sometimes and i argue with everyone therapists about it i argue with like you know because i think it's it i think it's worth discussing and it's a it's an idea to think about so when you go like i'm walking contrition i think i when i say that i don't think you're a bitch no no no no i've didn't i didn't assume that i would think that until you said it now like until you just said i didn't think you're a bitch no no no no i've didn't i didn't assume that i would think that until you said it now like until you just said i didn't think you're a bitch and i'm like wait what what we all have regrets looking back i could have not said it so um it's it's funny

this is like a perfect combination of everything coming together making me think and be the way I am. And it makes me wonder if that, so I come from South Africa. I was trying to explain to somebody the other day that the reason there's no South African restaurant that's successful anywhere in the world, and no one even knows what South African food is, is because South Africa is one of the few countries in the world that is like, it is a melting pot. It's like, if you say, what is Nigerian food? I can point it out to you. You know, there's very specific things that make Nigerian food.

If you say to me, okay, what's Taiwanese food? I can show you the cuisine. You can't do that with South African. I can show you what all the different cultures eat. But South Africa, there isn't even a south african person does that make sense like think of it yeah like if you if you if you're from kenya then you are kenyan and you you speak kenyan and you get what i'm saying it goes down south africa no it's it's the name of a place that a lot of people live in and that with a thousand different exactly and tribes yeah

so you've got tribes you've got languages you've got cultures you've got everything and i think because i grew up in that at the time that i grew up in that i understood the value in finding the gap between people and i i'll be honest with you i think most conflict in life comes from a misunderstanding of language and not language as we understand it or know it but all language so you know me having to learn or me learning different languages in south africa as the country was changing helped me learn very quickly that sometimes people didn't like each other just because they didn't know how to phrase a sentence in another language you know they didn't even know how to communicate their similarity exactly so someone couldn't say um may i please have that drink someone would go you give me that drink then you're just like i'm sorry you think it's

your drink and now all of a sudden there's conflict yeah right i think about that all the time and i would see it all the time i'd see it with my mom even you know she would say something to me she would tell me to do something or she would see it all the time. I would see it with my mom even. She would say something to me. She would tell me to do something or she would ask me to do something or she would say what she thought was a request or a command. I wouldn't hear it as such. And then afterwards I would get into trouble. And I remember being like, that's not what you said.

She would be like, I told you to clean the whatever. I'm like, but you didn't though. And when I play it back in my head i go she said make yourself useful i heard you should finish mario brothers i mean it's useful to know how the game ends you know there's a princess who needs saving and then she comes back and she goes you didn't clean the kitchen and i go who said clean the kitchen yeah where most people would immediately just jump to how they think or how they feel. I then start to try and understand where the other person's coming from or why,

because I think it's a language breakdown. I think everything in the world, I know this is a very simplistic way to think, but I think literally everything in the world is a language breakdown. You know, so you're driving on the freeway, someone cuts you off. Even that, you've misinterpreted language. You've interpreted as them cutting you off because that's how you're seeing the language. They're going, oh, I saw a gap. I'm trying to take it. I'm trying to get somewhere. And then it happens across countries, across cultures, across everything. So i've always had an innate ability to see or try and understand what somebody else is saying and then try and bridge the gap between the two yeah i've seen you do you've done i've seen you do it you've done it with me uh mediation basically yeah tell me the third tell

the listeners the thing that you're you and your mother would get into disagreements and then she would have you write an essay? No. So my argument, so I would say to my mom, she's not a good communicator. I still say this to her now. I go, hey, I don't think you're a great communicator. And what I mean by that is I think a great communicator is somebody who knows how to understand where the recipient of their message is and understand where their message is and figure out the gap between the two. The responsibility is the speakers.

It's anywhere. Think about how this is going to be interpreted. No, it's anywhere for me. I'm saying a good communicator can be a great listener. Okay. It's literally, I just go, that's in my definition. If you're a good communicator, it means you are just able to fill in the gaps of what is happening. You're understanding what the other person is saying or you're intuiting or you're like fixing it.

Yeah. A good speaker can be a good speaker. A good listener can be a good listener. But if you might fail at the other, then I don't think you're a great communicator. And I would say to her, I don't think you're a good communicator, mom, which is very tough. And you're like 10 communicator and i would say to her i don't think you're a good communicator mom which is very tough and you're like 10 11 yeah i mean at that age these are like you know what i mean this is like nuclear disarmament yeah it's like walking into the u.n and being like russia i think you guys are a little uh yeah how can i put this bitchy yeah and you're 11 and the

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Available in refreshing lemon, lime, passion fruit, and strawberry flavors. Buy a stick in store at Costco, Walmart, Amazon, and other Canadian retailers. So, yeah, it was terrifying but there were moments where i would find an opportunity to say something to my mom and to her credit she would i don't even understand it would inexplicably she would listen sometimes and i i say inexplicably because most parents in and around me of her generation weren't doing that you know now new age parents might they might even ask their kids what am I not understanding what am I not listening to that's beautiful my mom was doing it when nobody was doing it so it was it was unique and it would pop up and and I would say to her hey listen I

don't think you communicate well you didn't say this you think you said it you hoped i would intuit it but i that's not what you said and this is not how it came about and maybe this is where i learned a lot of it maybe it's because i was living with someone who wasn't a good communicator so i had to like learn how to and then the country amplified it and you're rewarded for it basically exactly yeah and so i said to her let's let's do this from now on. Write all your instructions and I will respond in writing to all your instructions. These are chores, rules.

Yeah, everything. So you write them all down and then I will respond in writing. That way, nobody is mishearing or misunderstanding or interrupting. You write it down. You give it to me on a piece of paper. Wasn't there a part in the book where she would kind of dread when you gave her one? She'd be like, fuck. She'd kind of be like, all right.

Like, I know he's going to have a good point. Yeah. Yeah. My mom always says to me, she still says it now. So you were like, it seems like you were friends quickly you were like it was father or mother son but also like cohorts or something like closer equals well it's weird she would she would open the floor is a better way to put it right that we were never equals but she would open the floor right you know there were moments where it was like freaks

speak freely mage yeah it was like those types of things yeah just like a moment at the king's table we like to address the lady yeah yeah great yeah um that's all right i guess what i'm trying to track is you you've suffered from depression as an adult and have you tracked it down what do you think maybe there's a reason is it chemical i tracked it to adhd that was the can i tell you man the most frustrating thing look you know me i love puzzles there's a few things i love more than solving a puzzle like something that's wrong you know figuring out and if she happens to be gorgeous even better go ahead i love solving a puzzle. It's been so frustrating to me realizing how little time we've put into,

we just put into thinking about the possibility that there is something else that's happening to people as opposed to these broad things. Shame. You suffer from shame. Yeah. You know, like an example, I was talking to Gerard Carmichael. And I don't know if you've seen Gerard's reality show. But in it, he's just having sex everywhere, all the time, everything. Wild.

Like wild. Sucking toes, doing it all. Sucking toes. Yeah, exactly. And so Gerard and I are speaking. And I say to Gerard, I go, hey, man, I see you do a lot of therapy, trying to dig, you know, and trying to get to the bottom of this. And a lot of it is about shame. They're like, you have shame. That's why you go on dating apps. You

have shame. That's why you want to have sex with people. You have shame. That's why you cannot control yourself. You have shame. I just said to him, I was like, hey, just quick question. Has anyone tested you for ADHD? And he's like, no. I'm like, it's interesting that you've spent this much time in therapy. And the first thing everyone has gone to is shame. But something nobody has considered, if you just look at some of these triggers, some of these things that you talk about, a lot of them can be attributed to something we understand. And so in the same way, people have started understanding autism, Asperger's and all these. I feel like ADHD was one of the weirdest ones and it's still one of the stranger ones

where people think, and so did I when I was young, that ADHD is, ah, this kid can't pay attention. When in fact, what it means is you are unable to control what you pay attention to. So generally, when you have ADHD, you are paying more attention than most people, but to the wrong thing. Right. To Super Mario Brothers.

Anything. Yeah. Yeah. It can be like a, I can be in a classroom. Let's say I'm in school. I'm in a classroom and there's like a little bird tapping at the window

and the teacher's speaking. My brain is like, that bird is, do you know what I mean? Most people are able to go, the bird is not consequential to what's happening right now. Turn it off. Focus on the teacher. My brain sometimes goes, that bird, man, that bird, that bird is ridiculous. And I think many comedians have adhd i think many comedians become

comedians and are good comedians because they have adhd because it's such a perfect environment for adhd and that you have again it gets rewarded yeah it's it's but it's also it's like comedy is very distracting there's a lot of people in an audience it's a tightrope you can never you can never turn off. You can never get lazy. You can never become complacent. It forces focus. It really does.

It really does. But it forces focus to the state of flow and it keeps you engaged and it pushes you. That's a perfect environment for a comedian. And it's a perfect environment rather for somebody with ADHD. And so in that, I'm talking to Gerard and I go like, I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but it's just weird that no one's considered this when you have the hallmarks. The guy

stopped to get a hot dog and then missed his friend's wedding. Sounds a lot to me like ADHD, which a lot of people can misinterpret as just being an asshole, by the way, but it is executive dysfunction. And so when I think of these things and when I've learned what they mean for myself, you know, when I think of life and you talk about, I go, oh man, you think it's depression, but then you realize that depression is oftentimes a symptom of something else. You know, and I hope we get to the point where we start understanding depression a little bit more. Because if we just keep saying to people you're depressed essentially what we're saying is you're long-term sad so we need to make you happy like but it's like but what is making you depressed i find is more interesting and

actually gets to the core and you get to that and you find depression i you and i used to talk about all the time i was like man i suffer from depression people were like do you i was like i think i do i feel it all the time i and then when you understand adhd you're like oh no so did you start you did do depression treatments though right you did ketamine you did no no no that was for no that was that was for like trauma and for life oh great oh that was different okay so this was that was for like a ptsd strain yeah that's that's for me that was for me trying to work past the things that i couldn't on a physical level yeah there are things that i'm sure listeners may you know relate to which is and i've yelled this at therapists it's in my body yeah i can't talk this out no no and

so that that book that became popular really got into it. The body keeps the score. It really does. Go and hang out with people who've been bitten by a dog or have had bad dog experiences. See what happens when a dog barks around them. They jump before they can acknowledge that a dog is even there. You know? It's the same thing with, I don't care where a black person is. Put a police siren on.

There's a thing. There's just like a. Yeah. Just a. It's like a police siren on there's a thing there's just like a yeah just a it's like a deer hearing a lion like huh yeah it's like yeah it's like a twitch moment you know and you you you you you know you're fine i'm sitting in a restaurant with neil brennan i have done nothing wrong i have nothing there's nothing that is going on in my life. Top of the world. Best. You're at a restaurant with me. What could possibly,

you've done something right. And then I hear a police siren going, there's just a, it's my body. It's not my brain. And I think a lot of people have that and they don't realize that they have that. And then it affects how they feel in certain situations, which then affects how you are in certain situations.

You know, so sometimes your body feels things or remembers things from how you were treated as a child when you asked for something and your parents rejected you. And then what happens now? When you ask in real life, you want to say something to your partner. Hey, can we, can we? And they go, can we can we watch and immediately your body panics they haven't even done anything yeah and you're that feeling you're trying to avoid it as much as you can so maybe you don't ask for it actually no big deal it doesn't matter actually it doesn't let's keep it moving but now the feeling is there and your action is there and then you're acting against yourself and that's it's just such a weird cycle to, to go on.

You did a few ketamine things, right? Yeah, no. So I went, I went for therapy. I've been in therapy for years. Yeah. Right. I think you and I spoke about that as well. Um, yeah, but I've, I've been in therapy for years and it was actually one of my therapists who said to me, Hey, have you ever thought of trying something that would go beyond the talk therapy i was like what do you mean and she said well there's this there's this therapy that some really good therapists are doing ketamine therapy and i was like i've heard of ketamine i don't do drugs lady

i know where this goes look lady i was like i know where this goes you know next thing i'm like hanging out with the wrong crowd like a cult in like a cult in Hollywood. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Buying hot dogs with Gerard Carmichael. I understand. I was like, I know where this goes. But then when I understood it better, when I did a lot of reading, because I wasn't comfortable with it. I understood that sometimes you need something that breaks the connection between your brain and your body so that your brain gets a break from your body in processing the information. And so your mind lets you go. And that's with a good therapist.

I wouldn't tell anybody to do it without a therapist because I don't think you'd get the same results. You need proper guidance. Hopefully the cost will come down because it's still pretty costly is it yeah getting doing ketamine with a therapist it's just it's yeah it's just it's like a new thing so it's like prohibitively high in that way i thought they'd gotten it down in some places like colorado and new york and everything yeah it's potentially, yeah. My question is, so it was in concert the resolving some PTSD and getting an ADHD. Was it medication or was it just an acknowledgement that you had it? No, no, no. Can I tell you, the diagnosis is more important than most medications, I would argue. And I think this is the same for most things in life.

than most medications i would argue and i think this is the same for most things in life just knowing is i would say 80 as effective as treating because when you know you now understand you know what i'm saying yeah like it's you're not crazy there's a there's a big amount of relief to no you weren't imagining things you're not crazy and the people around you weren't imagining things so i've now learned that i'll have to tell people in my life you know and i wish i knew this before in previous relationships i will tell people now you know my my siblings know my family knows my friends know so they know that in a moment you may feel me switch in a way that doesn't seem it sometimes people tell me it seems like i've tuned out but i haven't to me i'm fully present to me but literally what's happened is my attention has

shifted in a way that people can feel so in my head you may have said something that has just taken me to go like huh like what is uh yesterday what happened, I was chatting to friends, and then one of them said, yeah, the shower head is covered in, it's covered, it's like, it's got like a green scaly stuff, I got to fix that, and the conversation carried on, and then my brain went, wait, is the green, if you get green, does that mean you have hard water or soft water, does LA have hard water, does it have soft water, I think it has hard water. So it's got additional minerals in it. But I don't think the green, because green,

isn't green copper? That's like a, huh, that's a chemical process that happens when the copper's in the pipe. So what you're probably seeing is a manifestation of the copper in the pipes.

Does vinegar help? I think I've read something about vinegar. I'm gone. Yep. Now, if you know me as Trevor, you'd just be like, hey, some friends do that., you just be like, hey. Some friends do that.

They just be like, come back. People who don't know me sometimes will be like, you seem disinterested. Am I boring you? Yeah. Yeah. People will say that. People will very quickly think that I am just, you know. And again, it's one of those things. If you don't take it personally, everything in the world opens up to you.

It's like, huh. All right. Well, that's an area I wanted to discuss. Your ability or luck or skill in romantic relationships. My ability or luck or skill in romantic relationships. How do you find them? It's hard. You don't want to generalize,

but are you getting better at relationships? Is there a goal? Because we talked a lot about the overall idea of procreation, lifelong mate, et cetera, et cetera. We both had varying opinions. I think I'm getting better at it. But you always think that when you're not in one. You're the best boyfriend you've ever been right now i mean when you're not in a relationship you're an amazing crushing amazing partner are you kidding me i'm understanding i'm caring oh yeah your your tank is always full

when there's nothing draining it that's correct you know what i mean uh-huh or not even yeah draining i like the word draining no it is draining draining is not a negative nor draining is just you know it's a process that happens when something takes from another yeah so it is draining and if there's nothing draining then your tank is always full and so it's easy to move through life going my tank is full my tank is full my tank is full you know and and one of the best things um someone ever said to me was, um, they said, they said, um, it was a relationship therapist, actually a good friend of mine. And she said, um, you'll think you fixed everything that you needed to fix until you meet someone who reignites

all of the questions that you haven't answered from your childhood. And that's fundamentally all we're doing, you know, it's like like you're going from one relationship to the next, being forced to answer questions about yourself that have generally come from your childhood, sometimes from previous relationships as an adult. What are your, what questions pop up for you? Oh, wow. I mean, the big ones, the big ones I've always had to work on was understanding how me growing up in an environment where I didn't always believe that my needs were met or would be met meant that I was extremely self-sufficient. And I still am. But then what that can do is it could put me in a position where I wouldn't know how to rely on other people. I wouldn't know how to ask for help.

I wouldn't know how to rely on other people i wouldn't know how to ask for help i wouldn't know how to lean on people i would like i used to say you and i used to joke about this actually he's like getting canceled on oh i loved it oh what a joy the nicest thing you can do what a joy hey i won't i won't be able to make it trevor oh oh too bad oh yeah i love never loved my face i've never felt more sane yeah in that that moment but what it what it taught me was i wasn't good at needing people i wasn't good at opening myself up to be hurt and i think these are all fundamental components of love, a fuller love. It's putting yourself in a position to be hurt. Like the hardest gut punch somebody can give you is when you open your arms wide to hug them.

If you keep your arms tight, you can protect yourself pretty well. I don't even want to hug. Exactly. They can hug you, but if you stay like this, you're good. So it took me a while to understand that the way I had grown up and the relationship that I had had with my mom and my world, more importantly, funny enough. Because sometimes we think it's about the relationship with a person. When you say my world, what do you mean?

My stepfather was an extremely violent person, had problems with alcohol, you know. And because of that, I didn't know where my world would or wouldn't be. And my mother was in a situation where she was trying to make the world seem normal or tell me that it was going to be fine, but it wasn't fine. And I think this is something parents take for granted oftentimes. You're trying to be good to your kid. And so you go, it's okay. Everything's going to be okay. Hey, that won't happen again. This won't happen again.

But when it does, at some point, the kid goes, I don't know if you know when things are going to be okay or not. Yeah, they lose credibility. Like, I don't know if you've ever been on a flight. Have you ever been on a flight? I don't know if you've ever been on an airplane. Where a pilot tells you ahead of time there's going to be turbulence. They come out, hey, folks, we've got a bit of turbulence.

We're just going to keep your seatbelts fast. They do that whole thing. When you hit the turbulence, you have a new measure of confidence in the pilot. You're like, oh, well, the pilot told me it was coming. The pilot told me it was coming. But then you'll be on a flight where they say nothing. You hit bad turbulence flight attendant has to sit down next to you which is like that's never planned and then it's chaos

and then the pilot comes back and goes all right folks looks like we got through the worst of the bumps um should be all good to move around the cabin and then it hits again like 20 minutes later you you've lost all now you look out the window trying to spot clouds that might in some way, shape or form screw up this flight. You just lose a trust in that person's ability to keep you safe. And I know that happened to me as a child. While my mom was trying to do one thing, which many parents try and do, which is protect you and paint a picture of the world that they feel will you know will bring you peace and calm they don't realize what they're actually creating is a world where you don't trust them yeah and also she's your mother by your account and all accounts it's like she's great yeah she

just but she's still a woman in a fucked up romantic relationship and she might prioritize that over you guys or you and then and you're just caught in this thing yeah you just don't know yeah and the thing is as a child nuance is the last thing that you are you know you know we don't traffic in nuance as children yeah you're just going that was good and that was bad this happened and you know what they said is that is not what happened. I need to do a better job of protecting myself. So in relationships, what I then learned was, both romantic and otherwise,

I learned that I grew up assuming that people wouldn't be there or situations wouldn't be the way they were going to be. And so what I would have to do then to protect myself is prepare prepare eliminate the element of surprise and prepare myself for all possibilities and so then i just i would live my life like that but now you assuming the worst yeah yeah but you can't be a great partner like that did you find the thing where you because you expected it it would happen in what way meaning

it was a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing and i don't i think people use that as an excuse like well you don't trust me anyway so i gave you something to not trust me about or whatever but i i often wonder like if you then attract people that aren't going to be reliable or i mean i i think my big question as you're saying this is like, how do you make a conscious choice to do a very subtle. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique. So your business insurance should be too. is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer,

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Emotional thing that you weren't in control of shutting off. How do you shut it, turn it back on? So this is by no means advice. And I'm very careful to give like a one-size-fits-all solution to anybody. But I feel, at least from my experience. I'd also like to say you've been happy in all the relationships I've known you. I'm not trying to like this guy would come to me and be… No, no, no.

I mean, to your point, that's blocks. It's understanding why something happens when it happens the way it happens, you know, repeatedly. So I think anybody who finds themselves in relationships will find that they have some blocks that they don't understand. So I'm completely with you on that. And it goes to what you're saying. Are you better or are you, you know? What I started realizing was, again, in the same way that diagnosing ADHD was more important than treating it, I think communication in a relationship is more important than fixing the things about yourselves that are causing you problems in that relationship.

If you just learn to develop effective communication between the two of you, which starts right at the beginning, and I mean like right at the beginning, we take it for granted. On the app. We take it for granted. Yeah. It all starts with like the smallest, like the smallest contortion of who you are. I would say to people, be a more honest version of yourself, but also prepare yourself for the fact that you will also be a more alone version of yourself for a bit. You got to risk it. Yeah,

well, because two things will happen. The more you are you, the fewer people match up with you. If you're a one size fits all cap, you're going to fit all heads, but you're going to stretch in all different directions. And when people put you back down, you're going to fit all heads. Yeah. But you're going to stretch in all different directions. And when people put you back down, you don't even know what you are. But when you go like, this is my size, there's going to be fewer heads that fit you. And so it's very difficult to do that,

especially if you've done the other way around. Well, there's, you want to be liked. Yeah. And you want to have people, you want to have love. You know, you want to be connected. Yeah. If there was one thing I would say has changed for me and it's something that I would encourage people to try

is see what happens when you say out loud the thing that's happening in your head or in your world or in your anything. See how much people embrace you. Say to somebody, they go, hey, let's go to dinner. You plan a thing a week in advance. See what happens if you tell them on the day, hey, I'm feeling, I feel like trash. I don't even want to speak to another human being right now. I had a tough time at work. Don't make up any story. Just be like, I just don't. See what happens that person might show you

a certain level of empathy that you weren't expecting you might also be showing them a piece of you that might be valid in knowing if you're going to go into a relationship with them yeah if you do it in a kind way as well yeah like you you open yourself up you just say i'm man i'm struggling or this is not going to be or this this is, you know, even small things I've learned, even when you're like in the throes of love. Maybe the reason I think I'm better now is because now I can tell you when I'm drunk in love. I can tell you as the person I'm drunk in love with, I can go like, hey, I'm drunk right now. I would not normally do this. So usually on a Saturday or Sunday, I'm probably going to watch a Liverpool game. I'm drunk right now. And so because I'm drunk, I'm going to come with you to the farmer's market.

But I wouldn't usually. This is all hypothetical, not based on a true story at all. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think there's something beautiful in that. Obviously, I'm biased because I'm the one saying it. But I think it's nice for somebody to know that this isn't me. You make me feel like I can do or be something that I'm not. And in this moment, I'm having a lot of fun and I'm enjoying it. But please don't assume that this is me. This is not who I have been.

It might be who I become. Yeah. But this is not who I've been. So there's a good chance that that won't be who i will be going forward and i think that's where we screw each other over in relationships is we're drunk in the beginning we do all the things you would only do when you're drunk yeah and then as the alcohol starts to win like i'm not drunk this is who i am yeah this is me and then you start to sober up and by the way you don't have to be drunk. You just, I think there's that like people pleasing window. Yeah.

Which is, I still think it's a drunkenness. That's what I mean. It's like a, it's like, you know, it's, you intoxicated is a better way to put it. It's you're intoxicated by that person. And do you find that you're fitting less hats? Definitely. Or less hats? Yeah, definitely.

Definitely. Which is, which is a, it. Definitely. Which is a... Good. It's a lonelier place to be in. People forget the jump. In the same way that people will quickly talk about AI creating new jobs, but then forgetting that there's a gap between AI coming out and people finding what the new jobs are. That gap could be two years.

That gap could be 20 years. We don't know what the gap is. We've never known what the gap is with technology. I think the same applies to relationships. You don't realize what the gap in your life will be when you make a positive change. You don't. We just assume you go to therapy, you get better,

and then your life immediately gets better, and you see the results. No. There might be a moment in time where it's like, oh, you might stop hemorrhaging a few friends you'll lose some friends yeah you might lose a piece of your your world you might lose a piece of business partner friend yeah yeah even like how you thought you were yeah because you start realizing huh a lot of the glue that kept this together was me bending to be something that I'm not. Yeah. Have you had a thing where you say,

hey, I'm drunk, and then they still grant, they still expect that in the future, even though you told them this is conditional? Completely, definitely. And you can't blame them? Oh, definitely. And it's like, yeah, I get how you would think that.

Yeah, definitely. No one wants to believe,. And it's like, yeah, I get how you would think that. Yeah, definitely. No one wants to believe like he's drunk. They think he really likes me. It's like the stripper thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's a perfect analogy actually. Yeah. Strippers will literally look someone in the eye and say,

hey, this is just my job. I'm going to make you feel like I love you, but this is just my job. And that person goes, I get it. And two hours later, they're going, so do I wait for you afterwards? What's your street name? What?

You've never told anyone it before? Yeah. All right. Well, I guess my other question for you is there were two racial things that i want to just cover two racial things you've told me in our in our uh friendship that i think are uh i would like other white people to hear them one of them was you came to my house in venice and i had antiques in. Not even a lot of antiques, just a couple little accents.

And Trevor goes, it is very obvious a white person lives here. To which I said, what the hell does that mean? Please explain to people what you meant by that. So what I was saying was, okay, so what I was saying was this. I love that we've had these moments. It wasn't tense, brother. It was funny. What I I love that we've had these moments. It wasn't tense, but it was funny. What I meant in that moment was the same thing.

I mean, when I see like how much white people will love, you know, like red brick walls in their, in their like homes in New York. Yeah. Like yesteryear. Yeah.

They love that. Throwback. What I was saying to you was, I was saying, there's a strange thing that people don't realize about what you like and how you like it

being based on how you were able to access what you could or couldn't. So in a cleaner way, what I'll say is this. I've noticed a lot of white people love to dabble in old things or terrible things because they don't realize that they have the

luxury of not choosing those things and so that becomes a choice now yeah you know what i mean if you go like i i only buy my clothes from a second-hand store ah yes yes you see my chair is a very old one it is is a hundred years i found this is how I, I'm happy for you as a person, but the reason I was saying it to you as my friend, as I was going, I was just saying like, I was like,

oh, it's clear white person. Because most black people and most people of color have generally lived a shitty life. That's changing over time, obviously, but most people still have.

You're welcome. Right. Most people have lived that. And the last thing I can see like an African person doing, anyone who's lived that. And the last thing I can see like an African person doing, anyone who's lived that kind of life, is choosing the old thing that they were forced to have their whole lives. You're trying to get away from old shit.

Do you know how many times I've gone into a rich person's house, some white person's house, and they'll have on display something that was literally the definition of my poverty. Do you know what I mean? Give me an example. One of the more common ones I've seen is in very high-end design, they'll choose like a basin, you know, like in the bathroom. Yeah. The basin they'll choose.

Oh, like a copper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The basin they'll choose to wash their face. Boner medication tub. And you see this and you go like, wait, you chose this? Yeah. And they're like, yeah, it's just the patina. And I love those words.

The patina. Just seeing how it has aged. Like I'll see people buy things that are visibly, as they say, distressed. Then I'm like, yes. You know who else was distressed? The people who own those things. That's why they're distressed. And now the people who made them.

Yes. And so I found that amazing. It was like, it's like in a funny way. And this is the thing you and I enjoy is like, you know, not all these conversations have to be heavy. Sometimes people get so heavy about them. Oh, yes, you take for granted. I'm like, no, it's just funny to take a moment to realize.

Your privilege. Yeah. It's just like I don't know it's a cool thing it's like remember my ancestors it really is it is funny

to realize that your measure of luxury may not be what you can and cannot get but it may be

how you are able to process the world because of how the world has processed you. Yes. Even like, let's say dressing. There's no denying like white people can dress a certain way. But we can dress bummy. Yeah.

Full on. Yep. And it just, yeah, that's just your thing, man. Yeah. And you can walk into stores and people will help you. And people like black people pretty much around the world always know you dress the way you wish to be treated. You know, and even then there's no guarantee. So your clothes with holes in them and disheveled and things not working.

Make sure the off-white logo is visible. things not working make sure the off-white logo is visible if you're gonna wear some distress make sure the off-white or the gucci or the fair whatever the hermes it's a suit of armor it really is yeah yeah it really yeah which is why i i i'm i'm glad that i wanted i wanted my uh some of my white listeners to hear that the other thing you said that i found really uh interesting was spent time with your south african friends and they're all like very sunny guys and i said what's the why are these guys preternaturally sunnier? South African men are sunnier than African American men in general. Obviously, they're suited. And you had an interesting answer for me.

Well, I think generally, again, this is a generalization. We would never. It's not what we do. Go ahead. I think nobody should ever take for granted, ever, ever, ever take for granted what it is like to live in a place where the assumption is that you belong.

Nobody should take that for granted. The ease, the bliss and the peace that comes with walking into a room, walking down a street, you know, gathering in a place or a a such an ease such a you know it's almost like a like a lifting of gravity in a way that i think people take for granted and you're talking about the south african men yeah yeah completely and this is even men and women like yes yeah even under apartheid yeah because you still remember this you still saw you more than you didn't see you you were still showed you more than you weren't shown not you you know i mean it's like yeah it's such a weird thing and i i didn't understand it and i don't

think anyone can fully understand it unless they come to america and they're really open or they are not white then you can like then you can see it and you can feel it. You know, living in a world that, first of all, it's not like you have a happy story as to why you got there, first of all, you know? And people take that for granted. Let's just start with the base, right? Is many people have a happy story about how their people came to America. Even that on the surface, it's just like a fun thing.

Ah, my dad wanted to start a business. My great-grandfather believed that he could find a better world. My great-great-great-great-grandfather and grandma came here because they… Here's a picture of them. Exactly. They came here. They weren't brought here. They came here.

That already starts off, starts the story off in a very different way. that already starts off, starts the story off in a very different way. It robs you of a certain thrust and impetus because if your family came here for a certain reason, there's almost an underlying idea

that you must carry that on and you can carry that on because that was the intention and the purpose behind their arrival. And so you're imbued with it in some ways. If you don't have that, if your people were brought

here for forcefully then there's a lot of like why am i here now it would be one thing to be brought somewhere forcefully and then like welcomed and allowed to access every aspect of that place but now you brought there forcefully and then told that you shouldn't be there and then i yeah i can see people like well you do realize we didn't try and come here yeah we what's happening right place you brought me to yeah okay yeah well that's that was the do you remember the whole scuffle we had on the other continent yeah that's sort of where this began yeah when i said i don't want to come i kept saying i don't want to go and we're like and now you like go back to yeah do you know where i came

from i came from africa yeah and so you you take you take that for granted and then you take for granted how many times america has bait and switched black Americans. You know, it's bait and switch, bait and switch the whole time. All right, here's your freedom from slavery. Is it though? You want to share crop for a bit? All right, all right. Here's your freedom from that.

Now you can own houses. Or can you? Jim Crow. All right, all right, all right. You're free. You can participate in any way. Or can you Jim Crow all right all right all right you're free you can you can participate in any way or can you though every time how would it how would it not make you a little bit harder a little bit more suspicious a little more paranoid a little less jovial and another thing that you pointed out bouncy if I that I can just remind you of what you said is like, and it leads you to believe

that you're defective in some way a little bit. Oh, definitely. Whereas in South Africa, as you explained it to me, the white people were just like, no, no, no, we just think we're better than you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. I think that's one of, I always say this,

and it's a strange sentence. It's a strange sentence to say but i will always say it the one upside of apartheid was that it was in the open they just told you straight up hey we are the whites and the white people are superior to you that is why we are doing this and then you would go okay that is why they are doing it because they think people are superior to you. That is why we are doing this. And then you would go, okay, that is why they are doing it because they think they are superior. It's there. America obscures it from you. So in America, you go, why did I not get that job interview?

And America is like, I don't know, Damar. I have no clue. You're like, huh, I sent a resume. I had the exact same credentials as my, huh, I sent a resume, had the exact same credentials as my friend Chad. I don't know what happened there. There must be something wrong with you, Damar. Man, that's like the ultimate form of gaslighting.

If you're going to oppress people, at least tell them you're oppressing them. I think one of the worst things that happened in America was for so long, and in many ways still today, black people are made to feel like it's not, is it, it's finished now. It's to feel like it's not, is it happy? It's finished now. It's long gone. It's finished.

It's long. And then every now and again, it popped in. You're like, ah, but that's just an isolated. No, that's just, that's an anomalous. That's a, I don't get how that wouldn't make you, you know, a little bit harder. Like even, even having to code switch. I think of how, how wonderful it is being a black person in Africa. You are continuously surrounded by you, and you see you, and you go everywhere, and you are you.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I flew Ethiopian Airlines, and on the video, I'm watching the safety video, and I'm like, what is different about this? And all the animated characters were black and i was like i've never seen this yeah just like people sitting down and putting on that and i was like it was it was like it was like a twilight zone it's weird right yeah your brain doesn't realize how that's what i mean yeah it's so it's like in to to make it it to round the episode off in some ways, South Africa has been given the diagnosis. Yes. And just go like, no, we think we're better than you.

Yeah. So if you lose out, it's because we rigged it. Yeah. It's not because there's something secretly wrong with you. Whereas here they rig it and don't tell black people. You go ahead and eat yourself up, shoot yourself up inside. wrong with you whereas here they rig it and don't tell black people and they go you gotta you go ahead and eat yourself up shoot yourself up inside what do you make of your life overall meaning why do you think this life's been given to you or and what do you are you what do you what

do you make it's like pretty from the outside in it's a pretty public life it's a pretty big life and i wonder do you what do you make of it it's funny that you that you'd say it like that why do you think this because i think you're successful but i also think no no no but i like saying that like uh why do you think this life's been given to you? Strangely enough, I find myself thinking, why has this life been given to us? And by us, I mean myself, my family, and the people who are directly tied to me. And the reason I say us is because I didn't always think this, but I do think now you are literally a continuation of the previous generation. It's like an ongoing conversation with existence and you are just asked to carry it on. And so I can never take the credit, nor do I ever try for where I am now, because I genuinely just think I'm

a continuation of the conversation that my mother has been having with existence and then I'm just carrying it on like if I look at where my grandmother was in her life like she lived in a factory and worked in a factory essentially most of her life you know her, she had an arthritis like where she could barely open her hands because of how much time she had spent like sewing things and just like she was the machine in the factory. And so her hands were stuck like this. Do you know what I mean? That's my grandmother's world. Never living in a city, never seeing democracy until she was like 70 something years old, 70, 80 years old. But I mean, like, that's her life.

That's her world. But she makes a series of decisions. She engages in a combination of luck and determination that just move her a little bit forward. And then, like, my grandfather does the same thing. I don't know. You know, those ones are harder to get to. I talked like my grandfather my grandfather does the same thing i don't know you know those ones are harder to get to i i talked to my grandfather and my because they would just go to religion immediately right but i think even if you look at like the kosa people as

a whole i don't think it's any mistake that kosa people in south africa placed such an importance on learning and negotiating and thinking. And so when you say to me, when you go like, oh man, contrition and the way you think, I can show you history books where the Xhosa people were one of the few tribes in South Africa that figured out a way to not get the most hostile response from the British. You know, everyone got a hostile response, but they just figured out, they were like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait wait before you before you before you kill us or before you enslave us what about what about we run this part for you and we'll be under the queen we know you like the queen and maybe we ah i see your eyes lighting up there's something here

there's a but that's that's. That was passed down to me. So there's an element of how I am that literally comes through my DNA. It comes through my culture. It comes through my people. side of the country. And it's an even better thing that you can get six Ikea 365 plus glasses for just $9.99. So go ahead. You can afford to hoard because Ikea is priced for student life. Shop everything you need for back to school at Ikea today. On August 9th, don't miss the Borderlands movie starring this summer's biggest cast. Everybody buckle up. With Cate Blanchett, Kevin Hart, Jack Blackriana greenblatt and jamie lee curtis wow you never see that borderlands i know i've seen it right that's

why i say like when you were leaving the show when we talked about whatever i was like you have you're like a spiritual force under yourself i don't and i don't say that like it gives me no pleasure to tell a friend of mine that he's a spiritual force go fuck also go fuck yourself of course that goes without saying you're a spiritual force and i've even seen you do it at the daily show where you would be able to sort of channels too powerful word but just sort of like you could just know how to say or do something that's like you didn't. There's no way you thought of that. Yeah, I agree with you. Like and it's almost like you're you are just like a continuation.

Yeah, I agree with a phenomenon. Or do you feel responsibility for it or you just feel like i can do i think i can do this i i often think in life responsibility and gratitude overlap in many ways to be truly grateful for something is to treat it with the respect that it deserves i think and so i think sometimes responsibility overlaps with that because responsibility feels like it's a have to sometimes but with gratitude it's like no it's a it's a want to it's you know it's like wow I get to yeah this is really wonderful it's an opportunity if I look at the generations before me I often think of my mom's world and I go like how did she I still think of that I'm like you don't have the internet in that way you know like I look at my life and I'm like, you don't have the internet in that way, you know?

Like, I look at my life and I'm like, ah, I look at the schools I went to and the world I was growing up in and the technology I was exposed to. And yeah, in some ways I go like, of course. And then I look at my mother and I'm like, I mean, are you kidding me? Right? And then I'm like my dad, like the little spice that he added into my, you know, even my stepfather who didn't like, you know, who had a terrible side of him, but he also imbued me with a little bit of goodness and it's like things he added to my world. All these ingredients made me who I am. Right? And so I don't find it as amazing in a way because I look at the ingredients my mom had and I go, how on earth did you do it? Do you feel like you have significantly more ingredients than her or just more opportunities to express them? I think so. You have more opportunities?

Yeah, I think so. But the same ingredients. People will look at me and go like, oh, what you've done, Trevor. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what she's done. For me, I think when I look at the family, I go, oh, what she's done. So you don't even consider your, you're not even the biggest jump. No, I don't think I am.

Genuinely. Who do you, when you think of like generational jumps in terms of like. From the family, I know. Because I mean, I don't know how deep it goes but from the family i know easily my mom because i go she's the person who had to learn to become fluent in english when a school system wouldn't teach black people she had to learn subjects that black people weren't allowed to learn she had to or chose to in fact learn to started learning like computers and typing when you couldn't get a job as a typist or receptionist or anything in an office that wasn't a cleaner as a black person in a country. She was a black woman

as well, you know, in a culture that said that women couldn't be the head of a household. She learned languages that she didn't need to learn. You know, she explored cultures and worlds that she didn't have to explore. She, like when I look at that, I go, whoa. She was up against the country. With me, someone would be like, man, how did you do it? You're doing comedy in South Africa and now you're doing comedy in America. I mean, that's impossible. And I'm like, yeah, but no one gets stopped when they get on the plane.

You know, if someone says I'm going to go try and do comedy in America, the government doesn't arrest them. She lived in that world yeah that to me seems i mean yeah that to me seems insurmountable you know when someone says you're not allowed to fraternize with anyone of a different race that seems insurmountable to me all these things seem insurmountable first person in our family to like outright own a home first person in our family to to start their own business first person there's so many so in my world I yeah I in a way I think of it this way it's like sometimes I feel like people are commending me for building the first house on the moon.

And then I go like, yeah, but you understand my mom got us from earth to the moon. I'm building in low gravity and that's, I guess it's a little difficult. It is hard and not many people have done it. But I don't understand how this trip even happened. You know? So that's why I say I feel like i'm only a continuation of i i feel like i'm i'm merely just continuing something that started long before me well it's a shame you're so bad at relationships there won't be a next generation uh it was great talking to you it was great talking to you you're you're one of my favorite

people and uh i appreciate the i appreciate our relationship and i appreciate our uh encouraging each other and can i just say i'm proud of you neil Brennan. When I met you, you didn't smile. I mean, you did, but it was like an angry smile. I don't know if your listeners know when we first met. First time we met. 2008 or 9. I don't know yours. I'm terrible at that.

I just know the stories. First time I met you was in the comedy store in Los Angeles. And I remember it was in the hallway and I was following you on Twitter at the time Twitter was still new back then good old Twitter ah Twitter it was like a community back then and I was following you and then I saw you and I was like hey Neil Brennan and I remember you were like almost you didn't say it but it was like who the fuck are you? And I was just like,

man, I love your tweets. They're so funny. I love your writing, everything. And then you went, you're like, oh, wait, you're the guy. Are you the reason that people are following me

with like exclamation marks in their names? Because you were getting followed by people named like Olisa and Nomatamsanga and all of that. I'm so scared even hearing them. I remember you were getting followed by people named like Ollisa and Nomatamsanga and all of that. I'm so scared even hearing them. I remember you were just like, yeah, you're like, why do you?

And then you sort of complained about me having a million followers. I remember that. You were just like. Sounds like me. You were just like, who are you? Why do you have a million followers? Who is this guy? And you were talking like, I think like Bobby Lee or somebody else was there, a few other guys.

And you were just like, this this guy he's got a million followers but he's from Africa what's your deal it was this whole thing and I remember I was just like nice to meet you Neil and I would meet you again

and I'd meet you again and I'd meet you again and every time I met you I was like man this is a really really nice person who has like the veneer

of like anger and you know but I always thought about you the same way I think of like a loaf of sourdough bread you know if you don't about you the same way i think of like a loaf of sourdough bread you know if you don't know what's in it you'll just be like what a hard crusty right piece of shit but when you know what's in it you go this is the most delicious soft thing you will

ever come across a little sour still a little sour no it's not that's a misconception depends depends on what starter you use i'm great you know You know? But I was like, yeah, man. I was like, this, you know, this guy, just like, you know. And over the years, I saw you like, you were always open. You would evolve. You would, you know, slowly over time. And the reason I say that I'm proud of you is because I've seen many people who don't evolve. Many people who don't change.

Many people who then sadly, you can't be friends with forever because at some point it's detrimental to your life you know and you know what that's like it's like at some point in your healing journey you're gonna have to let some people go and and what i always appreciated about you was like oh man it was fun to be able to stay being friends with you because you were willing to let go of a lot of the cloud that followed you you know i didn't want it yeah but still you were willing to let go of a lot of the cloud that followed you you know i didn't want it yeah but still you were willing yeah i don't think anybody wants it yeah but i was willing to i was willing to endure the gap yeah between the stopping of one thing before the other thing begins yeah like just jumping without knowing what was going to happen yeah so i'm proud of you man it's cool

to see you know just became like a friendlier guy, a happier guy. I think you became yourself, to be honest. I totally agree. Going back to the beginning of our conversation, you have become less afraid

to open up your arms for a hug and get punched in the stomach. And I admire you for that. You've actually inspired me in many ways because of that. So thank you. I guess you're welcome. For everybody, you're welcome sorry everybody you're welcome All you have to do is open up your hand.

Mommy.