Blocks w/ Neal Brennan - William H. Macy

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

Neal Brennan interviews William H. Macy (Shameless, Fargo, Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Seabiscuit, Pleasantville & many more) about the things that make him feel lonely, isolated, and like something's wrong - and how he is persevering despite these blocks. ---------------------------------------------------------- 00:00 Intro  1:19 Serendipitous 2:27 Becoming an Actor  5:32 Different roles he’s played  6:21 David Mamet  10:10 Meddler  16:00 Adlibbing vs writing 22:50 Sponsor: The Perfect Jean 24:46 Sponsor: Mando 26:23 Procrastinator 32:00 Going deeper in his acting 34:54 Aging as an actor 39:25 Sponsor: BetterHelp 40:40 Sponsor: The Ridge Wallet 42:31 Fatherhood  47:40 Too Honest  55:04 Fargo 57:23 Boogie Nights 59:15 What makes Phillip Seymour Hoffman great  1:01:00 Acting techniques 1:05:50 Accepting Himself  1:08:30 Seabiscuit & Pleasantville  1:11:30 Shameless  1:12:39 Woody Creek Distillers  1:15:40 Continuing to Work  ---------------------------------------------------------- Follow Neal Brennan: https://www.instagram.com/nealbrennan https://twitter.com/nealbrennan https://www.tiktok.com/@mrnealbrennan Watch Neal Brennan: Crazy Good on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81728557 Watch Neal Brennan: Blocks on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81036234 Theme music by Electric Guest (unreleased). Edited by Will Hagle ([e-mail])  Sponsors: F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code [NEAL15] at theperfectjean.nyc/NEAL15 #theperfectjeanpod  Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code [NEAL] at Mandopodcast.com/NEAL #mandopod This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://www.betterhelp.com/neal and get on your way to being your best self. Take advantage of Ridge’s once-a-year anniversary sale and get UP TO 40% Off right now by going to https://www.Ridge.com/[NEAL] #Ridgepod Sponsor Blocks: https://public.liveread.io/media-kit/blocks ---------------------------------------------------------- #podcast #comedy #mentalhealth #standup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi everybody. My guest today is, uh, it's. Well, you made your Macy. Come on, man. I thought you had gone up. No, no, no, no. Oh, you thought I forgot my line. Yeah.

Um, listen to this resume. He did a, he did a whole bunch of mammoth plays and then they became movies and he was in those as well. Fargo Academy award nominee, boogie nights, Magnolia house of game, sea biscuit, pleasant ville, wild hogs, Seabiscuit, Pleasantville, Wild Hogs, which you have a soft spot for, you know you do, did Shameless for 10 years. 11. 11.

Who's counting? Well, he's also got an alcohol he's going to tell us all about. He's an interesting, unique guy. He's a woodsman, woodcraftman, craftsman. Carpenter. Carpenter. And we have nice chemistry, I think, so far. And his name, he already told you, Bill Macy.

Welcome, sir. It's good to be here. Now, Bill, from the outside in, it looks like things are going pretty well for you, for your life. It's correct. They are. From the outside in, it looks like things are going pretty well for you, for your life. It's correct, they are. Are you surprised or did you always think it might go well? Great question. I'm a serendipitous, as my grandmother said when I was about five years old. Literally. You're a serendipitous, do you know what that is? I said no. She said, Billy, you're a serendipitous. Do you know what that is? I said, no. She said, one to whom good things happen.

I've been a lucky guy. I mean, there've been bumps in the road and I wrote a song, I said, and my tragedies were more dramatic than true. That's probably true for everybody, I think. Yeah. Well, some people have. Actual tragedies, but yeah, a lot of it's in our heads.

I've had my ups and downs, but I've always been optimistic and sometimes downright Pollyanna-ish. And I've loved my career. I married a great broad, got lucky there. My kids are extraordinary, two fabulous women. So it's all good. And I'm upright, you know, good health, with the exception of a few leaks here and there.

And it's all good. Was it weird to become an actor when you became an actor? Because I always think about like, you were in Chicago, Midwest. It's not like there wasn't much of a path, right? No, but my parents were totally behind it and I think my parents were smart enough to know, I'm not sure he can do anything else, so let's support this. I was not a good student. They totally supported it and I actually never looked back from about age 20 on.

You just didn't, what do you mean by that? You just didn't consider what happened, why you, where you, how you got, you didn't look down so to speak, you just keep walking? Yep, good stuff happened on a regular enough basis that I mean, every once in a while I'd say, I'm thinking of giving this up. But mostly I was trying to get laid and sympathy,

but I never actually did. And I'm one of those lucky actors. My favorite part of this is when everybody gets quiet and it's my turn to talk. I just love that moment. I'm not crazy about the business or career stuff, the biz of the biz, but I really like acting. You said something and I don't even,

I don't know if you said it. Someone told me you said this to them. You said, when you see an actor taking a long dramatic pause, most of the time they're trying to remember their lines. I'm sorry, fellow actors, but it's true. And it's true with me too.

A lot of times that, that deep thought is just the fuck is that word. But the idea that you like. True with me too. A lot of times that deep thought is just, the fuck is that word? But the idea that you like, so when you say you really like it when it's your turn, do you ever judge yourself for that? Is that a lack of generosity on your part as an actor? Isn't the ideal of acting in the moment, in the space, feeling the scene out, but you're saying in some moment, in the space, feeling the scene out,

but you're saying in some ways like, no, I'm concerned about doing my part of this job. No, no, the part of this job that I love when I say that is, there's a lot of, as you will know, there's a lot of people on that set and it's hustle and bustle and at one point, it gets quiet and no one gets to go home until we actors do it right.

And that's what I'm calling my turn. It's our turn. And this notion of imaginary circumstances, it just, it's always been a good place for me. I really, really like it. Which is not to say I don't get nervous, I do. Which is not to say I don't get frightened, I do. But, um,

nerves and fright can sometimes debilitate you and they don't, me. I, um, it brings me up. Do you think it has to do with the parts you're playing? Do you know what I mean? Like, they're pretty vulnerable people in general. They're all different kinds, you know. I've certainly played the hapless fellow

who gets the shit kicked out of him. But I've played powerful people and I've played funny people and sad people. I've played bold and I've played meek. That doesn't matter. It's the whole notion of putting yourself in the imaginary circumstances and letting it go. My favorite kind of actor is the one that, the way I describe it is, he or she just doesn't give a shit. Like me? Don't like me. Approve of what I'm

doing or don't approve. I don't care. This is what I'm going to do. They just don't care. And it makes them bulletproof and it makes them magnificent. Did you, okay, so you started, I mean, not started, but a lot of your early stuff was with Mamet, right? Right. He, I've read a bunch of his books. He has a very outside-in approach to acting, right?

He, it seems to be just a peer that you're experiencing the thing that you I need you to experience it's not he doesn't seem to care about process at all no he does and he's the smartest guy I've ever met when it comes to technique please tell me about that because I didn't that wasn't my understanding. I met him at Goddard College, a little hippie school up in Vermont that sadly no longer exists. But there were no rules, no tests, no grades, no nothing.

It was the height of the hippie educational movement. And Dave had just gone to the neighborhood playhouse for a year, wasn't invited back, came back to Goddard where he had graduated and started teaching essentially the Meisner technique, which is, you know, Stanislavski method and He put his stamp on it. So he's big on technique, but his technique is about in is about in order, what is the playwright trying to say? What is the task?

What is your task according to the playwright? And to translate that into something that you can do in real time in front of people, and you can succeed at it or fail at it. It's specific, and it takes a bit of time to analyze these scripts a la his technique. What you're referring to is that he freed us all up of feeling anything which is genius. You don't have to believe it. And it couldn't matter less. Because the reality of storytelling is that the audience wants to jump in. And they only won't jump in and have an experience if you give them reasons not to. And, um, so put a crown on me and a cloak and put me on a throne and, uh, announce me as the king.

I'm the king. I don't have to think like a king. I don't have to feel like a king. I don't have to convince them, the, them, the audience that I'm a king. I'm the king. The most important question is, what are you going to do? Did you, okay, so if you feel like I'm the king, would you say that his method is your method, or was that just? Absolutely. Okay, so you sort of assume there's going to be a buy-in from the audience? Yeah, they got in their cars and came there. Sometimes they spent a whole lot of money on the ticket.

They want it to be good and they want to believe and they want to have an experience. They want to suspend all their disbelief and go on a wild ride. And so they kind of do some of the heavy lifting with you. A whole lot. Yeah. A whole lot.

You're a comedian. The best jokes are the ones that have the fewest words possible. So you give them absolutely everything. I still can't get over it. I know. You just give your listener, your audience, every single thing they need and not a syllable more.

That's the best joke. And so you spend your time, how does the king feel? How would the king dress? How would the, it's wasted energy. Do you find when you, if you're working with somebody else in there, you can tell they're doing that? Do you just stay out, just like, you know what, Bill, that's their process.

Don't get, let's just do the scene. I do now. I was a jerk when I was a young actor, I was a jerk. process, don't get, let's just do the scene. I do now. I was a jerk when I was a young actor, I was a jerk. You know, we're gonna talk about blocks to creativity. And one of the blocks I had was I worried about everyone's job and it made me mad when I didn't think they were doing a good job and with maturity If I may please no because I I still suffer from this. I it's a hard. It's a hard thing not to metal

I know but it's not our job and I Did 11 years on shameless and that's where I really learned how to act. I had a lot of where I really learned how to act. I had a lot of theories, but the thing about Shameless was that it ran 11 years, so if you blew that scene, there's another scene coming, calm down. And if you blew the whole episode, there's another episode coming. And if you blew the whole year, also you just get exhausted.

And I realized, if I'm worried about my fellow actor and that he or she isn't doing a good job, dollars to donuts, I'm not doing a good job because my energy is being wasted on something I have no control over. The speed is probably a little faster too, right? Oh, it's a blessing, it's just a blessing. The amount of scenes you're shooting in a day.

Because it's your first impulses always, which are the best. Yeah. I think one of the hardest thing of enacting truly is knowing when to quit. You know, you do the moment and if it's full and it's there, stop, don't try to do it better.

There was a great moment. The shameless style of shooting was we had two camera crews all the time and we call it shameless shooting but they would they would shoot each other sometimes because we would do there'd be a three-page scene and it starts in the kitchen and it goes upstairs and then back down and then into the living room. We'd do them all as one and the poor camera crews were racing ahead, racing to keep and I'd hear the guys, the camera guys go, I'm tired of shooting him, I'm gonna shoot her. Okay, you shoot her, I'm gonna take him. And the director's just sitting on going, okay, okay, as opposed to the curated thing,

you know, that's off the shot list. And so whenever, when it's your scene, there's this moment and you know there's a close up there. There, here's the punch line, here's the moment. And in the third episode of the first season, I went to the DP andP. and I said, when are we gonna get to my moment? And he said, what moment?

And I said, you know, this, when I say that. And he said, oh dude, you're done. That was the second shot. And it was liberating. Oh great. Because. Immediately or were you pissed and then it was liberating? No, no, it was one of those kadoing moments where I saw reality because I was intimately

aware that you do the scene and if it just breaks out this way that everyone shoots their stuff first and you're last, when you get to that moment, you've done it a dozen times for other people's coverage. And because it's your closeup, I'm gonna do it a little better. Right. It's a recipe for disaster.

You can't do it better. Just keep doing it. There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only full. I don't know what it is, but change it up every time and just do what's required and don't try to add to it. Are there any, can you think of any anecdotes where you were sort of worried about somebody else's

business or coverage or just in a movie or whatever, and then you're like, you realize like, fucking just do your job, Bill. Yeah, the first half of my career, I was just an angry artist and pissed off all the time. And it just didn't help. I mean, and we've all had this experience,

somebody's on the set and you go, he's not doing anything, man, that is flat. God, every time the scene comes to him, the lines come to him, this thing just deflates. And then you see the cut, you see the movie and he's great. Yeah. He's great and simple and direct.

And you guys all seem like you're overdoing it. Yeah. Yeah. And what do you consider the first and second half of your career? Cause you had a lot of, I mean, you got nominated for Academy Award in 1996. Were you any good at acting then?

I think I have a certain talent for it and that's God given. In terms of technique, I would say Shameless changed everything because I got my 10,000 hours in. Yeah. And I just left a couple of those suitcases at home. And it's been-

Did it become easier to beat you as a person? Yeah. Oh, you mean off screen? Yeah, like if you're an angry artist all the time, were you, or at least at work, were you like that in your regular life? That's a question for the family, but I'm pretty sure they would say,

yeah, he calmed down a whole lot. So you took yourself very seriously. Very seriously. And then it just doesn't help. Okay, you want an anecdote. At a certain point when Saturday Night Live hit, television just descended on it and all the comedians got TV shows.

And it's still going on that we do, we make the movie around a comedian. And I swear, when I see a film, I can tell where the script ends and where they ad-lib. I can just tell you I'd put serious money on it because it's really funny. And then their ad-libs sometimes ruin the scene because they're putting a hat on a hat on a hat. Tantential, yeah. And because it screws with the rhythm of the thing.

You did that joke, move on. You don't have to do it three times. There are exceptions to everything, but this is another Dave-ism. It's not an actor's job to be funny. It's the writer's job to be funny. I think an actor has to know what's funny and know something about comedy and timing, but I'm not sure you can teach that. Some people just get it and some people don't and that's up to the gods, but Lord help us from funny acting. Ugh, I can't abide it.

It's so funny, I've never heard an actor's point of view on that. Ah. I've never, because everyone I know is a comedian. So, and I also, and I've had friends, I've made movies, like I've had friends ad lib entire performances that ended up being great. And I'm with you, I'm more like, let's write it well.

And then maybe there's a little improv here and there. But I'm with, I agree with you in that, like I'll watch certain movies and be like, this is just, this is bullshit. I used to write a lot of movies of the week with my friend who also studied with David, Steven Schachter, and we got in a groove. We did over a dozen of them, and it was lovely.

But we'd write them together, he'd direct them, and as my star rose, I would start playing the lead role. And one time we were- This in the late 70s, early 80s? This would be out here. This is 90s. Okay. Yeah. When they were called movies of the week. Yes. And it was usually an hour and a half, a special. And we were doing one and there was this actress who was just ad-libbing up a storm.

I'm in the scene with her. And I went to the first and I said, she knows I wrote this, right? And she was just chattering away. You never knew when your cue was coming because she'd never shut up. And just funny jokes she would slaughter by using different words and stuff like that and

I finally went up to her and I said you you're pretty funny she said thank you and I said yeah you should write a script and she said it's funny you would say that I'm thinking man I said no what I'm saying is I wrote this script shut the fuck up. Congratulations. When you're number one on the call sheet, you can do that stuff. Yes, I have a similar story, doing a sketch on Chappelle Show,

which I did with Dave. Genius. Thank you. We're doing a scene, Dave and an actress, the actress is ad-libbing, and I just like quickly yell cut, and I'm like, hey, I need you to say dude. And she goes, I'm an actress, I need you to say dude.

And she goes, I'm an actress, I can say whatever I want. And she looks at Dave like, right? And Dave literally goes, lady, you just said that to the worst person on earth. So, yeah, it's like, well, if we wrote it, So, yeah, it's like, well, if we wrote it, certain people, go ahead and add,

I'm with you if you're, so there wasn't more, I would think that Boogie Nights and Magnolia had, it seemed a little improvised, not? Not much. I mean, Paul is a magnificent director and he's so attuned to what's happening on the set and if he sees something he likes, he'll say, do more of that.

But he writes great scripts. And they're pretty loose, meaning it's there, but there's room if there's... Nope, he writes good scripts. You've gotta be pretty good to come up with a better line than he wrote. Dave's the same way, Dave Mamet, you would think, probably greatest writer of our generation. You would think he would be precious about his lines, but he's not at all.

I've heard him say, well, you keep saying it wrong, I must have wrote it wrong. And then we change it. Does he go away and change it or he works it out with you? He's fast. When you're doing plays, it's fabulous to see Dave. You see him out in the house there and he puts his hands over his ears and you can see him. He thinks of it and then he counts it out. There's rhythm in everything he does. It's Iambic pentameter mostly, but I just, I adore his writing. It's really difficult, really hard to learn. And sometimes it's hard to discern what he's saying

because he doesn't give you, he writes it like people speak and just as we've all had conversations where you're not sure what the other guy's saying. He does that. And does he, is he a taskmaster in terms of like, no, he's cool with it? Most of the films I've done, he spends as much energy on the gag reel and jokes as he does on the script.

State and Maine's got a joke that became a staple in like big comedy, which is that just happened. So that happened. Well, that just happened. Yes. That, that was on set. He came up with that on set. That that's the first time I've talked to other comedians and writers about it.

Like that's the first time anyone ever said that. Oh yeah. In entertainment. And then it began, and then Will Ferrell said it. That just happened. Like a bunch of people said it in other movies, but it's like, that's mammoth.

I think some scholar someday will come up with half a book of things that Dave came up with that have moved into our vocabularies. Always be closing. I want you to find this nasty boy Elliot Nuts. I want him dead. I want his family dead. I want his house burnt to the ground. Look, I got a pair of the perfect jeans and I even sent them back for a better fit. It's a very good jean. Most jeans, they don't have enough different fits. I don't know what's wrong with my legs or body. It's not normal, so I need certain, I'm kind of lanky, but I don't know what's going on.

Perfect jean has been perfect, right? That's how you want it, right? They have more size options than any other website I've ever been on. And it's super seamless, and the return was great, and Will, show them the photo. I mean, look at my butt. My butt, my girl said my butt looks great the other day. I've been doing squats for seven years.

It's finally paying off. You know what I like about them? They're stretchy. They're not like leggings, like jeggings. Remember jeggings? Where they're jean leggings and whatever. These are like, they're the new material. Everything's stretchy now in a way that I love.

I'm an old man, we didn't even have stretch like this. They're soft and stretchy. I can like bend down, I can do my lunges. You know how I do my lunges. If you do, I read if you do like eight lunges once an hour, it's better, it's one of these things like better than running marathons. One of those new stats where you're like, whates once an hour, it's better. It's one of these things like better than running marathons. It's one of those new stats where you're like, what?

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I like it. You know I like Mount Fuji. You know I'm wearing it. I use it on my pits. I'm just doing my pits. I've done my stomach a couple times. I don't, I, my sweat, the way I sweat's different. The older you get it, it kind of shifts.

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Takes me a long time to get going. I think that's the other reason. You're a procrastinator? I'm a procrastinator. That's another reason it's a really good thing that I became an actor because, you know, they tell you where to be, what time, what to do. it's all prescribed and that's good for me. I tried directing and I've tried writing and producing and that is not my sweet spot at all. Too much busy work, too much calendar, admin. Admin. It's too big. An actor's job is really the moment, this one thing that I'm about to say. When you do that, you do the next moment.

You just do, go moment to moment. That's almost the definition of great acting. Just go moment to moment. And that's where I live. That's good for me. Is just not, just head down. Head down, what do you see? Say something about it.

And did you, when did you realize that in life? It's been a slow realization. I'm pretty sure every actor thinks I could write. I could direct, I could produce. Well I tried them all. And you're significantly better at acting than the rest of it. Oh yeah, yeah. I, when I started directing,

I did about four little features and the producers would always say two things. One, oh my God, you'll be so great with the actors. And then I wasn't. I found them very frustrating and crazy as loons and. That's interesting. Did you assume you'd like it? And then you were like,

oh fuck, this is a pain in the ass. Yes, it was such an eye opener to see how insane we are. And you consider it wasn't like they were different than you. They were just, you just never had to deal with yourself. Great. Yeah. Although. How were you insane? Do you know what I mean?

Like when you think about it, when you say that, what are you thinking of? Well, let me answer it by saying, why does a director think they're insane? It's because the actor will come up and say, oh, I was thinking that my journey will make my mustache go blam, da, da, da, da, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're standing there and what you're thinking is,

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but it's about to rain. And if we don't get this shot, we're screwed. Yeah. I can't talk about your mustache anymore. Yeah. I can't talk about your mustache anymore. Yeah. They just are so self absorbed and glorious. So that's that's the job. They're doing their job. They're doing their job. Yeah. I always say to directors, listen, and I got this from Dave, listen, you can't listen to the actors about the script

because it's an actor's job to fall in love with this character. And so anything that makes your character look bad or makes you uncomfortable about your character, you're gonna say, I don't think this is appropriate. I think we should change this line. What if I... And so if you listen to the actor,

they'll take all the drama out of the script. I say, so you cannot listen to the actors except me. Now I have some notes. Yeah, Maren Strachan is the kind of guy who was like, no, I'm way ahead of you. I figured that out. I heard an actor come up to Dave and said, I'm really uncomfortable about this moment. And Dave said, you are? I'm so happy for you and walked away.

And Dave's right. You're not supposed to be uncomfortable. Yeah, it's a, you can't be comfortable. We're not making a piece glorifying you. No, you've got two forces and one of them is gonna win. It's gotta be uncomfortable. That's why they call it drama. Yep. And what do you think that you're best at? Do you think that you get...

If you're best at acting versus writing, directing, producing, what sort of acting are you best at? And what sort of character what's or do you have a? Do you have a preference? I? Seem to put humor and everything I do even even the straight-ahead dramas. I It's the Mike Nichols rule if you want people to cry tell a joke first and if you want people to laugh Do something sad? it's the Whipsawing our emotions. I like comedies.

I think we need to laugh these days. But really, I like it all. I like it all. Yeah, you just like doing the job. Yeah. I'm a Lutheran from Western Maryland, something of a coward. So when it comes to the heavy,

heavy, tragic dramas, I have to be goaded a little bit to go there. To be interested in it as a to do it, to literally to take the part? Sometimes to do it and then as I'm doing it to go deeper. And that's hard to say to an actor, but I married well. to do it and then as I'm doing it to go deeper. And that's hard to say to an actor, but I married well. And Felicity a couple of times has said, I think you need to go a little deeper.

I would skim across the top. When would she say that? After she saw me do some scene. Oh, okay, all right. Yeah, Felicity and I talk about our work. We talk with each other and we read each other's scripts, we give each other's notes. I don't recommend it.

Yeah, I was gonna say, how's that going? But for some reason, it's the basis of our relationship. We met on stage and we love acting and we love technique and we love art and we love the theater and movies and we talk about it all the time. You mentioned being Lutheran. Do you think it's a core, do you think that stuff, I kind of have them in mind like I was raised Catholic

and it's like, and at certain points I was an atheist and it's like, but I was always Catholic. I'm still Catholic. You know what I mean? Like it's a bit like being Irish. Like I just, this is just kind of the frame. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. What, how has it affected you? What, how does it affect your habits? My father's people were all Yankees. My grandfather was a Quaker. So emotions are sort of foreign to me. One time my mom said something at the dinner table and my father said something sharp back and she said something sharp to him, and my father went, well. And after dinner my brother and I said, oh my God, did you see dad blow?

Man, I've never seen that before. Oh wow. Those were fireworks around my table. Well. And do you, but yet it being coming an actor felt natural. It did. I think just as your Catholic, my Yankee non-emotional thing holds me in good

stead because it's my go-to position, which I think is a smart one. If you don't know what to do, don't do anything because that's something. Well, that's probably also the more common human reaction, which is under, underdoing it. So, um, when I have something where I've got to go for it, it's big, it's explosive, it's emotional. It's such foreign territory for it. It's big, it's explosive, it's emotional. It's such foreign territory for me. It's thrilling. Oh, you probably don't even know what's going to happen.

No, no. Because you've never done it as Bill. Yeah, you uncork that bottle and it's sometimes scary what comes out. You're aging well. Oh, thank you. All right. You're aging well. Oh, thank you. With your 70. About to turn 75, gone on 75 as the kids say. That's, you look good man.

Thank you, I feel good. Had the same trainer for 25 years, Kirsten Hultgren, she's a genius. She goes to school every year, so as her clientele has grown older, she's educated herself as to what we need. And so I credit her. How do you feel about, were you worried about it? My health?

My- Well, I'm, no, because your looks. I think it's very, how an actor looks is to the maymott point, it's like a lot of the job is like, what does this person, how does this person appear? Were you concerned about age? I guess it's different for men than women, but were you concerned about it?

What was your approach? Well, I've always been a character actor and it didn't really matter. Other people will do it. If you look right for the role, they'll cast you. If you don't, they won't. So I always abided in their decision. If they want me to do it, I look right.

Who were you competitive with? Were you as an actor? Were there certain two or three guys that you kept losing shit to? Yes. At the beginning, more than now, I think, because guys my age, it's been weeded out. So there are just a couple of us and I think there's room for everybody. But yeah, at the beginning, I used to do commercials to try to keep the wolf away.

And it's same guys, same 10 guys over and over again. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But does that then happen when you're nominated for an Academy Award and you're up for, you're like capital Bill Macy? Well, most guys my age are singular by now. They've lasted and- They have a brand. They've, they've lasted and, um, they have a brand.

They have a brand. Did you, and, and I would put you in that category. Yeah. I never thought about what my brand is. Um, nor do I want to. Well, it's interesting the sitting with you. I'm like, you were in the cooler too, weren't you? Yeah. Like you've done a lot of shit, man. I'm a lucky guy. I'm like, you were in The Cooler too, weren't you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, like you've done a lot of shit, man. I'm a lucky guy. I'm like, Jesus, this is a guy from, I forgot you were in The Cooler.

There's another great, another great sort of singular weird movie. Maria Bella was so good in that. Yeah, I thought after Fargo, I was going to be the hapless guy because I'd done that on stage a good bit. But it didn't happen, I played powerful people too. And okay, so the looks thing, you didn't worry about it.

How is it dealing with your wife's an actress? Do you have to sort of, how do you, because it is significantly worse for women. And how do you, how do you guys approach that? I think for women it's a struggle, always. It's, I think there's nothing more powerful than a beautiful young woman. I mean, the world bows down to them.

And changes the energy in a room. Totally, totally. Civilizing. Even more than a beautiful man. It happens with men too. Three times minimum, three times more, yeah. But I think the rough thing is in their lives too, when they have to say goodbye to the maidenhood, when they have to say goodbye to the maidenhood,

when they have to say goodbye to the young, bright thing and they go to motherhood and middle age. But I think Felicity's been really good at embracing where she is. There's a great story about Desperate Housewives, when she had to read for that. And when she went to meet Mark Cherry, she, we had two kids in diapers and she took some time to put herself together and wash her hair and do everything. And when she got the role,

Mark said, it's just, you came in and you were such a mess, such a typical mom, you know, with your hair and there was stuff on your... and that's her putting herself together. Yeah. So she's embraced it. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, who's your support system and how have they changed your life? Sometimes you don't got a support system. We're more and more isolated. We've backed ourselves into corners about who we pretended to be and sometimes your therapist is like your is your support system. Me and therapy, synonymous. I had therapy this week guys I'm back in. I go in and out and it was

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50 years old when I had kids. And did it make a difference? Yes, I did the typical thing of, as soon as we had a kid I went, oh my god, money, money, money, money. And I took everything. I took every single job that came along. And I was at a hot point in my career and Felicity still pissed off that I was gone so much

when the kids were very young. I don't know, it all's well that ends well. My daughters are such fine women. I'm just, I have to credit Felicity who's an astounding mom, a complicated mom too, and a working mom. So they got the best of everything. When you say complicated mom,

what kind of parent are you? When you say complicated mom, I would assume you're a complicated dad or no? No, I'm pretty simple. I've been a little distant, because I am. I have few close friendships. She, on the other hand, has very close friendships and is great at keeping friendships alive. Motherhood was so

complicated for her and she was very candid about it. She had a blog talking about, there are some women that have children and they relax, they think this is all they wanted in their lives and they're telling the truth. And there are the vast majority of women who feel like they just got hit by a truck that nobody told them it was gonna be this hard. And no matter how much you say, it's not forever, it's only for the next 20 years.

Impossible to believe that in any circumstance. And she was a hands-on mom. But not Pollyanna-ish, not like this is what I always wanted, or this is what I always wanted, it's just way harder than I wanted. Yes, it's way harder. And angry, angry with the lack of support, both societal and also in the child rearing business, you

know, pediatricians and all, you know, people. Basically there was a lot of pressure, the way she describes it, there was a lot of pressure to love it, to love it. Yeah. And she didn't love it. She loved the daughters, but she found it. It's punishing. It's relentless. I don't have a kid, but my girlfriend has a four-year-old and I'm the youngest of 10 and I used to slag my parents and all this and I've literally apologized to my mom in the last few months.

I'm like, I had no idea what it was like. Did it change your opinion about your parents? Did it change your parents? Your feeling about life in general? Like, oh, this was, this is a huge shift. Yeah, well, I feel like when you have a baby, you should get, like civilized countries do you they should get Time off two months four months six months paid leave. Yeah, there should be a

Department of babysitters to help cut the totally I mean It's what could be more important than raising your children and we don't spend a lot of energy and time on it as a society. We just leave it to the moms. Totally agree. I took my kids skiing one time. I said, I'm gonna take Sophia and Georgia skiing. They were eight and 10 or seven and nine,

something like that. And she said, you are? And I said, yeah, I can do it. I've seen you do it. Oh my God. I wrote a thing about it. It was a disaster. It was such a disaster.

How could it not be? One person, one man, two kids. Yeah. Who doesn't do it that often. First time, you know, I, I learned from the best. And so just like Felicity did, we set up their clothes the night before, I laid them all out on the floor. I got up early, gave them breakfast.

We got to the mountain. We were, when we finally got in the car, they said, I'm hungry. And I looked at the clock. We'd started at 8 a.m. I had to pull back into the driveway and give them lunch. We got to the mountain about, with about enough time to do two runs.

Yeah. And was that easy? No, they were mad at me. I was mad at them. They're still mad at me about that. Apparently I called them numb nuts. They were fighting in the back and I said, were you numb nuts?

Shut up. They were mad. the back and I said, will you numb nuts shut up. They were mad and I finally said, okay, your mom wouldn't have done that, right? And she said, no, I said, what would she have done? And they said, she would have figured out how to stop fighting. I said, well, that's not gonna happen with me because your fights are so boring.

I don't know, I just, I'm sorry. I just find it boring. I was a little too honest with my kids. Was that a common thing? Being too honest. Yeah. Yeah. Sophia one time came in and she was this despondent.

She said, I go to, I have so much homework. I have all this homework. I can't get it done. And when I get it done, then have so much homework. I have all this homework. I can't get it done. And when I get it done, then there's another day. And I said, honey, get used to it. This is life. It's not going to get better. And she said, why would you say that to me?

Why would you say that? So I thought, okay. And I took her over and we took a long walk and we talked about life and we talked about this. and we took a long walk and we talked about life and we talked about this and I said, listen, I'll write you a note, go back, do an hour of homework and I'll write and say, you got sick. I'll get you out of school or I'll write you an excuse. She said, thank you, thank you.

She went into her room for 30 minutes, she came out and she said, it's done. I said, no, do it all. She said, I did it all. Do you think it was just reframing it for her? I think she lost her shit and she had 30 minutes worth of homework to do and she described it as four hours and treadmill.

And I was smart enough not to say anything, but. You strike me as a guy that's probably too honest fairly often. Yeah, I'm... I'm blunt. Do you think that had an effect on the amount of friends you have? I'm sure I've said things that cost me a friendship.

They just drift away. Yeah, what do you think people say about you? What do you think your people that don't like you say about you? I don't know. I'm on social media, but I never read what anyone says. Oh, I don't mean like audience. I mean like people you know.

Yeah, I've heard it. I've heard that I'm really rough and I don't fight fair, you know. I... And early on, every once in a while I'd come back, my good friend Greg Mosher, who ran the Goodman in Chicago and then Lincoln Center, innocently said, "'Billy, I figured out why directors find you so difficult to work with.' And I don't know what he said after that

because my ears were ringing. I had no idea that that was my reputation, but it was. The aforementioned doing everybody's job except my own, it was that. Do you think there's something honorable about it? No. Okay, so you're just like, no, these are character flaws and full stop.

Well, I guess I'm not being honest. No, there's a big thing in my family. We talk about this. If you gotta say, you're fired, how do you do it? And the female way perhaps, but certainly the women I know begin with, hi, how you doing? And how the kids, listen, we've been to them.

And I say, that's not the way to do it. You say, hi, you're fired. And then you do the nice stuff, lead with the hard thing. Because everybody knows they're being played. How are you? You look good. You lost weight, didn't you? Listen, we've been thinking about, and it's not you,

it's we've been thinking about, they know they're being played, and I find it personally outrageous. I would much prefer, hey, we're gonna fire you, and here's why, and then get all the good stuff, and maybe then I can hear it, and maybe even believe some of it. I think I'm with you, but I don't think,

I don't want the second part. Just go, I'm fired, and I go, okay. It's like, you know, people, when you break up with somebody, you go, we're gonna still be friends. Like, no, you're not, this is over. I may never see you again. Isn't that fucking weird? and you break up with somebody and you go, we're gonna still be friends. Like, no you're not, this is over. I may never see you again.

Isn't that fucking weird? It's when they say, it's not you, it's me. You know you're fucked. Yeah, it's you. I almost feel like that runs counter to your story about your daughter. Meaning it may run counter to your story about your daughter, meaning you were pretty empathetic.

I was, after the fact, after I told her, this is your life, babe, get used to it. Yeah, do you think that she, what did she take from it? Did she take that this life is hard and continuous? It's a great question, and it's ongoing. I think Felicity and I are good parents because I'm not good with empathy and I'm not good with blanketing people with unconditional love, you know, when they're hurting.

She is perfect at that and knows intuitively what to say. On the other hand, there are times in parenting, I think, where you gotta go, hold on, you're flying in the face of reality and I'm not gonna support it because I love you and it ain't gonna work. It won't work now, it won't work in the future, it's never worked in the past.

I'm the reality guy. Yeah, I mean, I hate to be simplistic about it, but that kind of seems like masculine, feminine, or father. It is. Father, mother. And I don't, it may be it's the natural order of things. The last 20 years would say it's unnatural, but it may be that, but I find that that's kind of how, we have chemicals that do that.

Yeah. And they have chemicals that do empathy. We were very assiduous about the screeners this year for the voting for the Academy Awards, all the award shows. So I watched all the movies and there were four or five of them, you can ask me to name them and I can't, that were about mother-daughter relationships. And oh, Lord, they just slew me. It's so beautiful. I think, you know, I've heard guys in war,

when they get killed, the last thing they do is scream for their moms. The mother daughter relationship is so complicated. Sons and mothers is complicated too, but at least I can understand that when I can see it. But they're so complicated and mothers are, they're magical. Yeah, I always have the thought that like men have,

women face significantly more oppression than men and in general it seems worse, but they have such a rich emotional portfolio that it's, it's like, this is even. Yes. Yes. I kind of feel that way. Like, no, this is about even.

Like you guys get so much, we have like muscles and all that, but like what you guys have is, is, uh, I don't think it's, I think it's about, it's pretty compensatory. Yes. All right, well I wanna go, let's just do a speed round very quickly. Okay. Fargo. Any thoughts? I saw it recently in a theater with people.

It's a brilliant movie. Everybody is so good in it. It had been 30 years, like 30 years, you didn't see it. Were you scared to watch it? A little trepidatious. There were scenes that I remembered that I thought, oof, I wish I had done that differently.

Uh, during the strike, there was a thing where they would say, um, we'll pay you to do a little tour, we'll screen the film, you do a Q and A. Seemed like a good idea when no one was working. Turns out 10 times the money wasn't enough. It was rough. What was rough about it? It's just traveling and talking to people.

I'm not good at that. And, um, but I was not down by the film. It's a great film. I'm so proud. Changed my life. Absolutely. Yeah. Hard to get. I'm so proud. Changed my life, absolutely. Yeah, hard to get. I worked hard at it.

All those stories about me going back and back and back are true. And then it's one of those things that is absolutely worth it. Oh, yes. I have a little cabin in Vermont, and I was there. It was in January when I got the call. It was wicked cold outside, and it's a tiny little cabin. It's about January when I got the call. It was wicked cold outside and it's a tiny

little cabin. It's about the size of this room. And I didn't have a girlfriend or anything. And I got the phone call. I got Fargo and I had nothing else to do except put on all the coats I had and go outside and scream. I was just running around the property in the deep snow screaming. And it wasn't like, uh, destined to be, you know, it wasn't like, other than it was good material, but it wasn't like, well, the Cohen brothers, everything they do as a hit, that was kind of their first, like they had done indie stuff that was popular, but this was like their first big.

I, I flatter myself that I'm pretty good at reading scripts. They had done indie stuff that was popular, but this was like their first big. I flatter myself that I'm pretty good at reading scripts. And I, if I'm gonna be honest, I knew it was going to be huge. Absolutely had no doubts. It was Joel and Ethan, they had enough money to make it. It was the role of this century. I absolutely understood it, every nuance. I was ready to act it after the first reading.

Awesome. Boogie Nights. He is such fun to work with. I got the script, I was working elsewhere, I got the script, which was much racier than the final film. And I thought I was being punked, because it was a porn script. It was a racy stuff in there.

And I called my agent and said, is this a joke? And they said, no, no, they're making it. It's got to be R rated. That's in the contract. I hope Paul doesn't take offense at this, but I wanted it so much when I realized it's a great role. All the roles were great, a great story.

And so I met with him at the Formosa Cafe It's a great role. All the roles were great. A great story. And so I met with him at the Formosa Cafe, and I had prepared my pitch of why it should be me, the through line of the character, what this, what I think you're trying to get at, and all this stuff. And Paul started talking, and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. He was telling me he was going to shoot it. And at a point point I realized,

oh my god, I've got the role. He's auditioning. He wasn't sure I was going to take it. It's the first time in my career it had ever happened. And I remember, this is a visual, but I remember going, okay, tell me more. I sat back and I thought, I love this position. Yeah, it's better. The set was so much fun. Burt was a jerk, but there you go. But that cast, those people,

they're the best of the best. I long to act. And it's kind of mamity. Very mamity. Yeah. But completely original also. You, Ricky. Oh, Ricky Jay, rest in peace. And Phil Hoffman.

Yep. He was the best of his boy. That guy. What a tragedy. Okay, you're a great actor. Everyone says Phil's the best. Or, you know, he's on the list. Why?

As a, just as a fan of, like, what is it as an actor that you go, fuck, that guy's good? He has just abundant loads of talent, just raw talent. As a mimic, as anything you want. I mean, he's just... Got it. Physically he can do it. Yeah, yeah, okay. The aforementioned, he don't give a shit.

He's gonna do what he's gonna do. You can think whatever you want, but he's so self-assured. Even when he did Capote, it was without looking down. And it's not right, cause a lot of times when I think about quality, I think about like, can they do rewrites quickly? Is it, do you think he could do that?

Or is it just he can take the text and crush it? He can take the text and crush it. I did Magnolia and Boogie Nights with him and I have no memory of him saying could it be this could you change this line or whatever no he took what he had and he just made it great. Also his emotional life just showed if he felt it you could see it on his face. He's just one of those lucky actors that is a raw nerve. And you think that that's, it's not a blessing in life. Probably not, no.

But it is, it's one of the, as an actor you go, man. Yeah. Have you ever tried to get rawer? Rawer and... I don't even know how you would approach that. Like I'm asking that as like, is that a thing a person could do? I think so.

As I said, sometimes I need to go deeper, you know, find where it touches me and go there a little bit and access some of my pain a little bit more. But also, I think for a long time I was a dutiful actor and maybe it's because Dave was my teacher and he's the greatest writer of our time. So I would dutifully learn the lines

and I was slavish to them. And not everybody writes like Dave. So there were some scripts and it's ad-libbing after a fashion, but it's just rounding it out. You know, don't, I was so precise with the script and I don't know if that fits the definition of raw, but perhaps it's more realistic, you know, to make it a little more

Ragged around the edges and realistic like you get that Do you do that by think kind of thinking and trying to embody it something? Well My technique is You don't have to feel anything that will happen Whether you want it to or not including those times when you think you feel nothing it's not nothing and like Phil Hoffman you know yes there's no such thing it's nothing with him it's just so much going on and the camera is really good at finding it and if you've got talent at

this it just comes out, irrespective of your efforts to keep it bottled up. I figure out what the character wants, which is one question, this is what Dave Mamet brought to it. There's a difference between what the character wants and what, and is doing, than what the actor is doing.

They're very similar, but they're not the same. And one of them requires belief and the other one doesn't. And one of them you need the script to win or lose. And the other one you don't. You don't need a set, you don't need a camera, you don't need anything. So, you know, Hamlet's saying to his guys, swear to me you won't say that you saw this ghost. And he keeps saying, swear, swear, swear. And the

notion is to translate that into something that you can do, you and me, if you're one of the soldiers, you and me can do it right here, to say it's as if, you're not saving the kingdom, that's all imaginary, it's as if, and you come up with something concomitant so that you understand the nature of swearing. It's like, don't tell my girlfriend it's not that, it's very important, you come up with something and that's what you're getting a pledge, let's not that, it's very important. You come up with something and that's what you're getting a pledge, let's say. And the difference, I'm not explaining this well,

but the difference is if you have an action that you can accomplish without preparation and without props, then you'll know when you've done it. And conversely, you'll know when you haven't done it. And the only way to know the difference of the two is for me to watch you like a hawk and measure you. And everything I do depends on what you do, which is the essence of acting.

I want this, you want that, and I'm measuring you to figure out how to outsmart you. How to say this line? Well, what do you want? That's why the whole thing about looking like a doctor or acting like a king, it's, what's a doctor? It's undefinable. Yeah. Some of them are letharios and some of them are jerks and some of them are ugly and some of them are beautiful and some of them are jerks, and some of them are ugly, and some of them are beautiful, and some of them, you know, anything.

You go to med school, that's what makes a doctor. Are you interested in sociology as a function of the job, or anyway? I think so, those truths that we all hold. I once heard someone say to Mamet, well, you're lying for a living, really. That's what an actor does. I mean, it's not really your name,

they're not your lines, they're not clothes, aren't they? So you're telling lies. And Dave very quietly said, no, no, no, no, no. No, we tell the truth for a living. That's what we do, we tell the truth. And he said, but it's not your lines. And he said, yeah, yeah, that's just the play. Those are just the words. But what we do is tell the truth." And he said, but it's not your lines. And he said, yeah, yeah, that's just the play. Those are just the words. But what we do is tell the truth. That's why I love

you can mean everything from fuck you to marry me. The same freaking line. It's what you want, which informs it of how you say it. 70, you're 70, you're going to be 75. That thing about what you're like, people have issues with you, wish you were nicer. Do you look back in your life and wish that there was a, your character had been different? Or are you pretty resigned or accepting of who you are and who you are?

I don't think anyone changes. The Catholics say you're cooked at seven. I don't think we change much. And I do know this and other people say this, when you change it's only when there is absolutely no alternative. When you have no choice you can change a little bit. I think the big task of living these lives we live is accepting ourselves. I have so many regrets and you do it too. You wake up in the middle of the night and you think what you did to that girl, that you lied to her, and you go, oh God, oh God.

It's not fixable. And I think the task is to accept I can be that way. That's, I can be that way. There's no way to make yourself so you're not that way. You can only arm yourself a little bit by knowing, well, that's my propensity. And that's the only thing. Let's just do it less if possible. So regrets, guilt, I don't think they're, propensity and that's the only thing. Let's just do it less if possible?

So regrets, guilt, I don't think they're useful emotions. I try to stay away from them. How's Felicity feel about that? She struggles with it and we talk about it a lot. Because it could come across as no accountability. It could. I think there's a difference between apologizing and regrets.

I mean, regrets are, I don't know, maybe this is just the way we hold these words, but an apology is for the other person. Regrets is something you carry with you all the time. And guilt. I think it's been, I think maybe I think this because one thing I know about acting is that when the scene's over, you better leave it.

It's a disease. You get in the car and you go, fuck, now I know how to play that scene. Well, that must've been nice watching Fargo. I mean, like, I was fucking pretty good. Yeah. All that dumb regret or second guessing. Maybe you didn't on that one, but.

But the point is it's there. Don't worry about stuff. You can't do anything about cause I can worry myself into a coma. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Seabiscuit, Seabiscuit and let's do Seabiscuit and Pleasantville. Same writer, correct? Gary Ross, fabulous director, man inasantville, when that sign came out,

no coloreds allowed, I thought that was the most sublime bit of writing I'd ever seen. For our listeners, Pleasantville is about these two kids, Toby Maguire and Reese Witherspoon, get sucked into the TV in this 1950s show called Pleasantville, where it's black and white. And there's a glitch in the universe and they know who they are in this imaginary world. And as they eat from the tree of knowledge, or actually they bring the knowledge with them, they start to turn colors. There's a great scene where Joan Allen

is married to me and she, someone mentions an orgasm and she is flummoxed by it and Reese Witherspoon says, mom, don't you know about the bathtub? And it cuts to Joan in the bathtub, and she goes, oh my, oh my, and Gary cut to a tree outside which burst into flames. Yeah. Oh my, oh my, oh my, oh my, oh my. And the kids, when they discover sex and longing and all of this stuff they turn colors they become color and The whole town's up in arms half the town wants it black and white and the other half

Says no, let's turn color. And so a sign appears in the in the drugstore. No coloreds allowed There was that was a bit and so a sign appears in the drugstore, no colored allowed. There was, that was a bit, you got to be Lutheran in that movie. Yeah. Lutheran and Pollyanna. Yes, yes. Both of them, right?

I mean, Seabiscuit's. No, he's a snake, the guy in Tick Tock, Tick Tock McLaughlin. Oh, Gary Cain said, I got the best role for you. And it was. When I speak, and it's something that's bugged me my whole career, I have a tendency to speak slowly and with measured tones, and I put improbable,

I'm doing it now, pauses that I don't understand. And that character was just rat-tat-tat Yeah, yeah, talk about a jump in class. This is the stunt of the garden party. Yes He's the surprise in the punch bowl as a matter of fact I'll lay even money that this nag see biscuit couldn't even finish six furlongs was that fun to do It was a great fun to do. It was hard for me and you had sound effects. Yeah, I worked at it a lot because it was, it was a, it was a hat trick to talk that fast and do all of that stuff.

I had to really get it down. And, uh, let's, while I mean, well, shameless, that's where you, that's where you figured you put it together. We are dinosaurs, my friend. And a big fat comet is headed for our sweet slice of earth. Yeah it was such a mitzvah for me because I I loved those people I was really proud to be in it because of the stories we told. I loved the shameless attitude towards sex which is it's just something we all do, calm down.

It was so great. And shameless sort of got in under the wire before we became so politically correct. I don't like it. I was really proud to be in Ricky's Stinnicky because we're going back to those raunchcoms, as they call it. I think we've got to do that,

especially in this day and age. If you, we should be able to laugh about everything. Yeah. Tell jokes about everything. Doesn't mean you have to, but we have to be allowed to. Yeah, you can. Yeah, it have to be allowed to. Yeah, you can. Yeah, it has to be an option. Yeah.

What's the story with the Woody Creek? So I live in Woody Creek, and Mark Kleckner, one of the founders, they were growing potatoes in our yard. And I asked my brother-in-law who lives there, and he said, yeah, I made a deal with Woody Creek Distillery that they could use that pasture to grow potatoes. And it was about a week later that Mark Kleckner came in and said, Bill, I don't know if you know this, but we have a distillery down in Basalt.

I said, stop right there, Mark, I'm in. So just like almost every other actor in the country, I'm the spokesperson for Woody Creek distillers and I've had the best time one because I love spirits I'm a big drinker I just have always found it so romantic especially spirits I'd like to double down on aging well yes if you if you drink a bunch and you still

look this good at 75 God bless some yeah well half my friends don't drink enough If you drink a bunch and you still look this good at 75, God bless something. Yeah. Well, half my friends don't drink enough and the other half drink too much. So I'm straddling that fence. But I also started, the pandemic hit a month after I got the job as their spokesperson.

So for that year, there was nothing to do. So I wrote a song about the Woody Creek Tavern, which is a famous tavern, Hunter S. Thompson fame, and the pandemic and Felicity shot it on an iPhone and we edited it and put it online and people liked it a lot. So I play ukulele, used to play Come on, let me tell you a story about a spirit that shines so bright So, I play ukulele, I used to play guitars but I've got arthritis in my fingers so I play ukulele a lot and I started writing songs about 15 years ago for my daughters and my wife, birthday songs and some of them are quite elaborate

It's been hours since your bedtime. People have limits and I just passed my time. So one a year for each of them? Yeah, I kept that going for about four or five years. And then when I got the gig with Woody Creek Distillers, I gave up the birthdays. Now I write about alcohol. And so I write these songs and every once in a while I perform at the distillery or when we go selling our hooch

in the various states, sometimes I'll play a little song for them and it's very winning. And if I do say so, the songs are really kinda good. Turns out I love writing lyrics. That's funny. It seems like it's going well for you. Yeah. Life is sweet.

I'm still working. Did a bunch of films just before Christmas. I was in this thing called- Do you get tired of the sort of, I guess you wouldn't worry anymore, but do you want to keep working? Does, do you, do you get tired of the state of like looking at the phone or do, is that not what it is? No, I still worry.

Um, after Shameless, I thought I would be in some form of retirement, but turns out that was not satisfying. Also turns out I'm not as rich as I thought I was. How did you find that out? The pills. No, I want to work. And I worry about it less because it doesn't help. And John Burnham is my manager and he's magnificent

and he keeps coming up with stuff. I just did a film called Train Dreams, which is really good. It sold for a whole bunch of money at Sundance. That's gonna be in, I guess theaters soon. That was a really sweet film. And I've got my hand in, I seem to be the king of, we only need you for two days. But one of the problems is they think,

oh, he's so good, it's three days worth of work, he can do it in two days. And I keep saying, I'll take the money, but can I have an extra day? So I've done a bunch of films where they pack in these scenes and it's a good role and it changes the plot, but the worst day on a film is the first day, because you're lost, you don't know anybody,

and a lot of times they've been shooting all along and it's a family that you're not a member of. And the next bad day on a set is the last day because it's sad and it's, you're hoping you did well. And that's all I do is the bad days, the first and the last day. Are you gonna do it until you cannot do it anymore?

Is that the, you think? I guess so. As long as there are roles that are That blow up my skirt a little bit I'll do it. I'm still upright and I can still remember the lines So I see no reason to stop it seems did you expect this? Did you expect to be like I'm gonna work. I'm gonna be busy when I'm 75 I don't know if I expected it, but I wished it work I'm gonna be busy when I'm 75. I don't know if I expected

it but I wished it and I had faith. I had faith. I'm a serendipitous and there are some interesting roles out there for people of a certain age. It's good. I like to joke that one of the good things about getting old is when I hear the idiotic things my young friends say. It just makes me, but it's nice. I'm in a good position. I'm on every set.

I'm usually the oldest guy now, but I'm the, I mean, all screes, you know, the old gray hair guy. And so I get listened to and great respect and I have gotten better at it. And so I'm, I feel like I'm, I'm doing some pretty good work. Who am I to disagree? Bill Macy, ladies and gentlemen, the serendipitous. Yes, this has been lovely. Thank you.

Thanks for the compliment. My man, my man All you have to do is open, open up your hand My man