Blood Will Tell - Speak What We Feel | 6

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

After years of avoiding the truth, Trung and Anh finally sit down for a raw and honest conversation, hoping to bridge the gulf between them and forge a new path forward.This episode contains descriptions of self-harm. If you or someone you know needs support coping with thoughts of self-harm, text the word “CONNECT” to 741741 for free, confidential support from a trained volunteer Crisis Counselor.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Audible subscribers can listen ad-free. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. A quick note that this episode contains discussion of self-harm. Read enough Shakespeare, and you'll find that masks are a recurring theme. Literal masks, like the masquerade scenes in much ado about nothing and Romeo and Juliet. And figurative masks, disguises the characters put on to sidestep complicated situations, but also to test out new identities and desires. When I first met Trong at his Othello rehearsal in 2020,

he had a lot to say on the subject. There were a lot of masks that I had to put on and a lot of armor that was distorting me from where I truly had. It's always been a constant struggle with my mask. And now it was time for Trung to see if he could take the masks off for good. The rehearsal took place at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, where Trung was assigned to finish out his sentence. When we met, he was just days away from his release.

I couldn't help but ask the most obvious questions. So where's your brother right now? And do you think Ahn resents you? There was probably a lot of resentment. And there's more to unpack with that when I get out. It's to really, truly, have a conversation about that. I think about these twins. separated by a selfish and desperate act of self-preservation

and an unthinkable sacrifice, always trying to prove their worth to one another, and in so many ways, trying to be like the other. Shakespeare's most famous twins, Sebastian and Viola, were modeled after his own. Even though it's a comedy with a happy ending, 12th Night is also a play about grief. It's Shakespeare's attempt to give his son's son,

tragic death a different ending, to offer his twins something he'd never be able to in real life, a reunion. Without disguises or masks, Sebastian and Viola can finally be their true selves. They can be whole, not just because they are together, but because they know each other. Trung and On are also returning to each other. But how their reunion goes, whether On will be honest with Trung about how he truly. truly feels, and whether on will forgive Trump is entirely out of Trunk's control. Their ending is not yet written.

From Wundery and Campside Media, I'm Jen Miller, and this is Blood Will Tell. This is episode six. Speak what we feel. Trung stands before an open door at San Quentin, looking out onto the wind-swept yard. He's holding two cardboard boxes, containing everything he wants to take. take home, the letters from friends and family, his self-help books, and the certificates he's earned. Across the yard, he sees the van that will drive him to freedom

after more than four years behind bars. Coming out of prison, I was wearing a pair of workout joggers, a gray fitted shirt, a pair of Nike shoes that I would work out with, and I made sure to have a clean haircut. The van drives him to the prison's main gate. As Trunk steps out, he sees his parents, his brother, friends, and a bunch of family members. It turns into an immediate hug fest. Trunk shivers in his thin t-shirt, so Onn rustles up a bright red jacket.

Their parents help load his things into On's Mercedes, and they head back to San Jose. Trunk grips the door handle as On flies down the 101. Because I remember just like being pretty scared on the freeway. I was just not used to it. It's been so long and I was feeling pretty nervous, like getting close to some of the cars. But the closer they get to the city, the more emotional trunk becomes. Driving over the overpass of 680 Junction 101. This is this curve where when you're driving on there, you see downtown on the right side,

you see the east side on the left side. You will see that there are yellow flowers. everywhere. People know this area as the Silicon Valley, right? But we actually call it the valley of the golden flowers. The translation in Vietnamese is pronounced tum lom huay vang. And I remember all those nights in our teens, just driving over that overpass. Trong stares at the landmarks that were once utterly mundane, like the big farm that comes into view as they get really high above the city. City lights, everything. It's bright, it's beautiful.

It was like, oh, damn, I'm back home. They arrive at their family's apartment in Checkers. It's a different apartment than the one they grew up in, but... The inside is almost exactly the same. The bed is like the same exact place. And so it was like living in our childhood again. On and Trong get ready for bed, just like when they were kids. Brushing our teeth together, you're standing in front of the mirror.

Like, oh shit, this is cool. It's been so long. Being back with Trong, we just felt a sign of relief, you know. I don't got to go visit him anymore. I don't got to put money in his books or just finally have some help taking care of my parents and just this chapter finally closing. And then they climb into bed and turn out the light.

There's so much to talk about. But there simply isn't time. First thing tomorrow, Trung will check into the transitional house where he'll live for the next six months. So how they decide to deal with the past? Really, whether they deal with it at all, that will have to wait. Trong has a basic plan for his first year out of prison. Pursue his bachelor's degree while he works as a substance abuse counselor.

I've dedicated my life to a living immense. So that is through my work. That is through how I try to treat other people, especially not making those same mistakes again. Since the day I met Trong, we've stayed in touch. I get updates about his work and his school. And then On starts to join the calls. I get updates about his life too. Hi, Jen. I'm doing good.

They tell me about their childhood in Vietnam and how they got into the lifestyle. But they aren't sharing how they feel with each other, not about the party or everything that happened after. I start to wonder, how long will they avoid talking honestly to each other? Will they ever? Then on a Zoom call one afternoon, Trong has an announcement. We're actually a planning to move in together. We, meaning Trong and on, the brothers are about to become housemates again,

and with so much unresolved between them. What will it be like to live under the same roof? The last time they lived together was the night the police came to arrest them seven years earlier. Over Zoom, I ask on how he feels about. about this new step he and Trung are taking. Oh, for sure it's going to be different. I mean, just the way Chung is. Yeah, he doesn't like party.

He's super disciplined, and we're more responsible and accountable. It's going to be good. I appreciate On's optimism, but I am not at all sure how this will go. Shortly after, On and Trung move into a four-bedroom, two-story townhouse, not far from the apartment complex where they grew up. Ahn is busy with work. He's a manager at a local restaurant. He also has a new girlfriend, Tahn.

She's a hairstylist and has a son from a previous relationship. Trong has discovered a green thumb and he fills the apartment with plants, grow lights, and misters. He's busy with work and school. For a while, everything is going great between the twins. They team up to take care of their parents. My brother is, he's been so amazing. My mom has been complaining about not having a good car for quite some time, and then my brother takes care of the whole thing.

And then we give money to our parents each month just for them to save, and then we took over all the bills, life insurance and all that. But I also see some fissures begin to appear. On hasn't drawn the same hard boundaries that Trung has. On isn't sober. On is still in touch with Bobby. and On is still going out to bars and clubs with his friends. And so Trung gets really annoyed when On comes home smelling of cigarette smoke,

and On gets annoyed right back. When he got mad at me, I'm like, you really getting mad at me right now? After all this. But it never goes beyond that. On never says the next part out loud. You're going to be mad because I had a drink? After I went to jail for you, he just lets the resentment simmer. While Trong keeps getting hung up on all the progress he thinks on hasn't made.

When I got out, my assumption was like, okay, I'm going to be able to process this with On, with others. And maybe they can also find some of that healing. But I realized really quickly that everyone is at their own pace. But the twins aren't only moving at different paces. They also have different goals, different ways of adjusting to their lives as free men. And whether they realize it, those goals seem increasingly incompatible. Living under the same roof again has exposed something fundamental about their relationship, something that has maybe always been there, something they don't want to admit.

As close as they've been, there has always been a tremendous gulf between them, made only wider by their six-year separation. If they have any chance of bridging it, they can't just rely on DNA or even on shared experience. All the things that have allowed them to pretend they know each other. If they really want to know each other,

they'll have to talk. As part of his social work degree, Trong lands an internship at Asian American Recovery Services. It's there that he meets Jenny. We were in like every training together. And when Jenny first spots Trong in a training session. She can't shake the feeling that she's seen this guy before. So she asks him,

Hey, you look familiar. She tries to place his face. And that's when it hits her. Because I recognize him from De Anza. The community college Trung attended before he went to prison. They were both classmates there too. Later on, he told me when I asked him that, his heart kind of sank because he thought I was recognizing him from the news or like his history, right? But I had no idea that had happened to him. It's now been almost two years since his reentry, and Trung has had to constantly contend with the shadow of his past, people who recognize his mugshot from the news,

his record coming up in background checks for jobs and apartment rentals. He's lost out on some opportunities because of it. And he wasn't sure how potential partners would feel about his history either. He's relieved that Jenny only knows him from school because, well, he thinks she's pretty cute. And Jenny feels the same. They strike up a friendship, talking about their plans to become therapists.

We'd always talk about, like, other random things, like how he loves plants and like all that stuff. There's obvious chemistry, but they work together. I feel like I was holding back a lot, just because I had that rule, because I didn't want things to get complicated. But I feel like a couple. couple months in, maybe like December, I was just like, I really like this guy and I, I can't,

like, turn my feelings around. Like, I can't turn it off. Like, I just really want to talk to him. I really just want to see him. Our first date, like, officially, we went to Christmas in the park together. I was, like, so excited. I was like, okay, I'm going to look so cute. I'm doing my hair, my makeup, like, find the cutest outfit that I can find for, like, the winter. I remember, like, getting, like, butterflies in my stomach because you were, like, holding hands. At first, state becomes a second and a third. Pretty soon, they're spending practically all their time outside of work and school together. He's like so nice, like probably one of the nicest guys ever, like caring. It's just so many walking green flags. I know it sounds like cheesy, but I feel like

when you know, you know. And the more time they spend, the more Jenny senses that Trung is holding something back, something that's troubling him. I, like, pressured him into telling me, but at the end I was like, you know what? This is, like, effed up of me. Like, I shouldn't even be, like, pressuring you. If you don't want to tell me whatever this thing is that is, like, scaring you. But he ended up telling me what happened. He finally opens up to her about the homicide and his incarceration.

When he first told me, I'm not going to lie. I feel like it's shocking news. I feel like if anyone has heard it, it's, like shocking news. But because I, like, work in mental health, like, my kids that are, like, in high school, like back then, we're in and out of juvie as well. And I know people can change. So when he told me, I obviously was shocked,

but I kind of just like retracted. And I gave him a hug. And I told him, like, thank you for letting me know. And this doesn't change how I think about you. And only because I've seen, like, how much he grew, he, like, works as a substance use counselor. He doesn't drink. He doesn't do drugs.

He was thinking about applying to grad school. So it was just like he had, like, a path for his future. And so I was like, okay, let's just see how it goes. As I continue my conversations with Trong, I can see how excited he is about Jenny and what it means to get close to someone new at this time in his life. I don't have anything to be afraid of, right?

Because who I am now, what I'm doing is like, it's not what I was doing before. Even if the people may look at me or my story a certain way, I think it comes to like embracing that. As Trung and Jenny fall in love, Ahn's relationship with his girlfriend, Tan, also changes pretty dramatically. He has some news for me. I didn't tell you yet, but we're expecting a baby.

Congratulations. Oh my God, that's so exciting. And from this point, a lot starts to change. After social work, class of 2024, I invite Trang Tong to share a few words. Trung graduates from a master's program in social work. What I would like for us to do is to redefine the definition of success in those that we help. Success should not only mean resolving problems, managing symptoms, or finding stability in one's life. Success should also mean that individuals who live experiences can thrive and reach their full potential.

And he and Jenny are inseparable. On and Tan get engaged and prepare to welcome baby number two. He also takes a big step in his professional life, landing a job as a sales rep for a cannabis company, which sends him across the country to expos and client meetings. He barely has time for a social life, let alone late night hangs at clubs anymore. There's so much forward momentum, so many things to celebrate. But there's still one constant that hasn't changed. Trung and On still haven't figured out

how to talk to one another about how they feel. It starts to boil over into the happy home they share. As Trung continues up the ladder to his goal of becoming a therapist, it's clear that he hasn't learned one big rule. You can't do therapy on family. My level of patients with things at home

has gone down a lot. And so I do see myself getting to a point sometimes that I would, I guess, weaponize my knowledge in this field or what I do. There are times when Aan and Tan have disagreements, and Trong will jump in to try and mediate. Anton tells Aan how unfair it feels. She always feels like the two of us gang up on her,

and then just like, let us fight, dude, and back off. Trung's attempts to intervene are putting a strain on Aung's relationship with his partner. And that causes even more fights. Fights between On and Trung, fights between Trung and Tan, a cycle that hasn't found an end yet. Of course, as all of this is going on, the twins are still talking to me,

once, sometimes twice a week. I start to gently ask them about what it felt like when everything went down, when Trung decided not to step forward, and On decided to take the fall for his brother. On somewhat deflects. Because it only takes one step of him turn himself in, but then it has to be right.

It has to be, you know, how it turned out. And when I push a little further, he doesn't say anything. I kind of want to know more about what you mean by that, and especially in terms of your relationship, like what would that mean for it to be right, for you both to feel like you were doing what you both needed to do for each other. So anyway, we can maybe talk about that next time.

In that moment, as the call ends, it occurs to me that there's got to be a connection here, between the tense atmosphere at home and everything that runs beneath the surface. The emotions and hard truths they've been keeping inside for so long, all the words that by this point are practically screaming to be spoken. I can feel it, and I think they do too, because if they don't want to confront each other, then why are they still talking to me? And then an opportunity presents itself. The opportunity.

One day, after three years of living together, the twins reach out to me again with another update. They're going to shake up their living arrangements. They've decided to get their own apartments, to start building separate lives. So I say the thing I've been longing to say for so long. Hey, maybe it's time to have a talk. a real talk.

The twins respond quickly. Yes. Finally, they're ready. From a computer screen in my office, I watch as Trung sits down in a recording studio, 3,000 miles away in San Jose. And then, a few moments later, On appears to. Today is the day they're going to talk,

really talk. And they've agreed to let me record it. I've asked them to prepare a list of questions for each other. If they're nervous, they don't show it. They joke around a bit, and then trunk starts. The session that we're having today is it kind of like, it really fits into the timeline, right? Because we're about a step into a different path in our lives.

I'm pretty excited for us to kind of do our own thing. I'm excited to be kind of step in this new chapter of my girlfriend. and kind of try things out. What about you guys? I'm excited. Just going on our own and, you know, raising our kids with our own values because we were trying to put each other first. But she thinks I sometimes put you over her,

which, I mean, it's not really true because she's the mother and my kids. They can't ignore the recent tension between Trung and Annes' fiancé, but I'm not sure if they recognize there's a dangerous pattern playing out here on putting Trung's needs above even his own but I don't say anything I let them keep going I'm curious where this will lead

I feel like what you put into me should be minimal it's enough already but that's something for you guys to work out right? Yeah and that's that's not my shit sometimes just you let us fight go to your room

don't need your inputs I don't want it to be perceiving that way it's like choose my brother or choose my wife like that's not fair for her yeah and maybe sometimes I do come off in that way

like like I know it all I guess yeah I think I was saving that way like a smart ass yeah you can't come off as like a smart ass I'm acknowledging

now right That is what I'm trying to work on, you know. Trong, as a brother, most days he's still trying to figure it out. To be honest, I was worried about you when I first got out of how reckless things were. I mean? I wasn't sure if, like, you were still one foot in, one foot out to kind of, like, putting yourself in that danger. And I'm in my head, I'm like, damn, this dude's not realizing it. And, like, am I going to lose my brother?

knowing what it's like to lose B, right? How'd to go through all that? So what came off when I got out as like very like strict judgment or whatever? Like it's actually coming from a place of fear. I don't know. I feel like it hasn't been easy to be as straight. You know, I'm always like back and forth, back and forward. And at the same time, it was around people who were gang-affiliated, guns, drugs, all that.

There were moments I thought of like, dang. I think I'm kind of like back into these association again. Changes had to be made, and I did that. Like I don't see myself as perfect or sometimes I don't feel like I'm good enough, but at the same time, like, I know I work hard. Where you're at now and like the confidence that you have for yourself, it's amazing. I mean, right now I'm going through the stuff we're having to try to prove my rehabilitation, right,

to be registered as a therapist, right? It's an uphill battle that we had to face all the time going through what people think of us as people who were formerly incarcerated. I don't know, there's a lot of, I think, like, we can contribute to society. It's like there's so much potential, right? I think just from my case, my charge was murder, you know?

So what happened if I didn't get out? What happened if I just stayed there? the charges that was on me was the incorrect charge but at the same time of course like I'm not gonna you know not acknowledge that somebody did pass away because of also my me being there and my influence all that too but yeah that's part of it

I appreciate you bringing this up too right and that impacted our relationship so I mean if you kind of think back of when you were in there feeling like oh I'm being locked up

for something that I didn't do and me being out here yeah like was there any kind of resentment towards me or blame that oh if

it trunk didn't do all this stuff like I would still have my girl I was still be on this path I mean I think both right I was like okay it's probably It would be better for me because I didn't really had much going on during that time as a kid.

But you actually thought about like, oh, maybe it's better that trunk is out there. During that time, I just felt like a fuck-up, basically. Just got locked up too many times in juvie. And then when you had a T-Mobile job, during that time, I thought, oh, great, that's awesome. You know, I don't know what I was going to do. Also, like, I felt like, dang, what happened if I didn't? If I spoke up and then have you go in. Yeah.

And then they just charge you with first degree, second degree, whatever. That's a long time. That makes sense. Yeah. What did you think? I just blame you or what? For a while, I probably thought that, like, you felt like something was taken away from you. I think that's a very normal feeling for a lot of people.

It's like, damn, like my life, I lost my life, my future, our relationship, like, it's all about me, it's about what I'm losing. But it takes a lot of people to finally get to a place where they start to recognize, like, oh, shit, I'm here because of the decisions that I made, that was a hard truth to accept.

Because it's like, damn, you, me, what we did, change the lives of people. Yeah. I've been listening to this conversation, staying silent. This is their reckoning to have with each other. But in this moment, I can't hold my tongue. I asked Trung

Is there a way in which you're like Is there a way in which you're trying to share the burden of this with On because it feels like too much for you? Because as much as he's played a role, the things that you guys actually did in that moment were very different. But it's not Trong who answers. I mean, like, I woke up to a nightmare.

I'll tell you that. Because I blacked out. I woke up to losing my life. So you got to understand that I do feel guilty, I do, but I didn't make a decision to staff that person. That night changed my life.

It did change my life and did take a lot away from me. Like what I did was what I did, right? Because like, that's not something I want you to take ownership on. That's not your shit. Nobody in this world, even our closest friends, would do what you did for me, would do that two years of not knowing

if you're going to be doing life or not for me. That's something that I want you for it to really sink in. As I listen to the brothers, I can't help but think about King Lear. It's one of Shakespeare's darkest, saddest plays, and one that directly deals with sibling betrayal. Brothers and sisters accuse one another of treachery, and they send one another into exile.

At the end, Edgar, who spends much of the play as his brother's victim, has a message. The weight of this sad time we must obey. Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say. It's the lesson Edgar has learned after so much tragedy, and it's a lesson that Trong and On are finally learning themselves, speaking how they feel, naming their guilt, naming their hurt, naming their shame. Trung decides he wants to tell on

something he's never told him before, something that speaks to his deepest shame. It goes back to the day Bobby had him jumped. We went to the homie's house afterwards that night. Kind of everybody was just chilling. I mean, I was in the rest of him the whole time with a knife.

I didn't know that. I don't know what I was trying to do, but I was trying to cut myself. I don't know. Like, I was just trying to... I just wanted to disappear. You know what I mean? I didn't realize that.

I didn't realize that you were going through that much shame. And that pushed you to, you know, wanted to prove yourself. And then Trung comes fully clean. Maybe it's something both brothers already know, but it's also something that has to be said. Even when Trung was trying to prove himself to Bobby, He was really trying to prove to himself that he was as brave as On. You put yourself out there for other people in a way that, you know,

it took me a long time to kind of get the courage to be able to do that, become courageous enough like you. Trong has always thought this all came so easy to On. He's never stopped to think that maybe it hasn't. I think certain situations for me is like when I back down, on a fight once or twice and then I was ashamed for it I think that made me like

the next time this happened again I'm not saying no we're going to fight on the spot I'm with the shit I'm hard we're going to prove it the exact feelings Trung was experiencing at that time in their lives I think like kind of

partly our own like internal competition was like I think like damn how I was unable to do that you know not back down But knowing that you went through the same thing, you know? Yeah, no, that's good for you to actually share that too. I mean, I got something to say. You know, Bobby was the one who made that happen, initiated.

If I would go back to tell you, you, like, dude, like, of course, like, don't hang out with him, but, like, you're actually more tougher than him. And you don't need validation from anybody else anymore. No, I appreciate you saying that I definitely want my younger self to hear that. But, I mean, what you're talking about is like all of us kind of went through that. You know what I mean? Even him. Yeah. And the shame that I had, he has too.

In this conversation, it becomes clearer and clearer to the twins. They don't have to do things the way their father did, or Kevin or Bobby. They can be a different kind of role model, a different kind of son, a different kind of brother. I feel good. I feel good about this path that we're both going to be walking. It's a good time we're not to reflect that each time that we split, we get to learn so much about our individuality, right? And grow so much. Yeah. I think being locked up, I lost my sense of like twinness and what it feels like to be a twin.

And we gained that back in the past few years. And now splitting, I feel much stronger doing so and still have that twinness. Yeah. So it's different. It's different than all the other times that we had walked our own directions. Yeah.

Because all of this, it's not just about the two of them. Trung and On had driven down to the studio with their partners and On's kids. There's a new generation watching them closely. There are children who rely on them. And I imagine it won't be long before those kids are old enough to ask questions, like about the brother's tattoos

or why they leave an offering of oranges each year beside the grave of their friend B. My oldest, I'm still trying to keep him innocent right now. So when he finds out, I have no idea. I feel like he knows more than you think, though. He probably does. In so many Shakespeare plays, the endings are foretold.

and there's sort of a contrived neatness. But of course, real life doesn't work that way. There aren't really endings at all. There is simply the next day and the next and the decisions we make about how we're going to live them. To hide behind a mask or face who we really are. To keep our pain a secret or let others in. To share our most shameful experiences with our children

or never mention them at all. In coming back together, in coming to know one another, finally, Trung and On are making each other a promise, not to stay silent, to speak. Audible subscribers can listen to over 200 podcasts, ad-free, including hit shows like Dr. Death, business wars, and over-my-dead body. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app. Blood Will Tell is a production of Wondury and Campside Media. This series is reported, written, and hosted by me, Jen Miller.

For Campside Media, our senior producers are Lindsay Kilbride and Ashley Ann Craigbaum. Our producer is Annie Wynne. Our story editor is Ashley Ann Craigbaum. Sound design and mix by Ewen Lytremuwen and Mark McAdam. Fact-checking by Tracy Lee. Consulting by Thomas Liu. For Wondry, managing producer is Sarah Mathis. Letup and Dia is senior managing producer.

Senior Development Editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Special thanks to Dr. Hian Doe, Dr. Kevin Lamb, Leslie Courier and the Marin Shakespeare Company, Isaac Butler, David Rall, Christina Everett, Germain Hamilton, Phyllis Fletcher, Marcelino, V. L. Pando, and the operations team at Campside Media, Destiny Dingle, Sabina Mara, Doug Slaywin, and Ashley Warren. Executive producers are Josh Dean, Vanessa Gregoriatis, Adam Hoff, and Matt Cher for Campside Media. Executive producers are Nigery Eaton, Julia Lowry Henner, Marshall Louis and Jen Sargent for Wondery.