Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast - S1 Ep6: 2019 Winner

Episode Date: June 6, 2019

Fiction + our 2019 winner.  Leading up to the announcement of Tayari Jones as the winner of the 2019 Women's Prize for Fiction, Zing Tsjeng chats with the guests at the awards ceremony about gender equality, the view from their industries and which brilliant women we should all be looking out for in the months ahead. Featuring Naomi Alderman, Stanley Tucci, Viv Groskop, Catherine Mayer, Otegha Uwagba, Leyla Hussein and Tayari Jones fresh from collecting her award. Recommendations include: The Power by Naomi Alderman The Illegal Days by Grace Paley Octavia Butler, author Ursula Le Guin, author Isabelle Huppert, actor Lowborn by Kerry Hudson How to Own the Room: Women and the Art of Brilliant Speaking by Viv Groskop Anna Akhmatova, poet Dr Hannah Barham-Brown, doctor and campaigner Athena Stevens, actor, writer and director Little Black Book: A Toolkit for Working Women by Otegha Uwagba Money: A User's Guide by Laura Whateley gal-dem.com Manal al-Sharif, Saudi Arabian activist Kimberley Motley, attorney and human rights activist For more details head over to www.womensprizeforfiction.co.uk or check out #WomensPrize and @WomensPrize on Twitter and Instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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I'm Katie Hessel, art historian, the founder and host of the podcast, the great women artists, and now author. My new book, The Story of Art Without Men, rewrites art history and centers on the pioneering non-mail artists who spearheaded movements and redefine the canon. Beginning in the 1500s and ending with the changemakers of today, this fully illustrated book covers every major shift in art history. The Story of Art Without Men is out now in Hardback and an audiobook read by me. With thanks to Bailey's, this is the Women's Prize for Fiction Podcast, produced by Fremantle. Celebrating women's writing, sharing our creativity, our voices and our perspectives, all while championing the very best fiction written by women from around the world.

I'm Zing Singh, and we are here eagerly waiting to discover 2019's winner. We're here in Bedford Square, a lovely. kind of gated garden in the middle of central London. Their fairy lights strung up everywhere. There's an enormous marquee tent filled with flowers and people mingling and chatting, music playing. We are here for the Women's Prize for Fiction Award ceremony to find out who among the shortlisted authors will clinch the prize.

We will be talking to various guests and luminaries that we've managed to grab from the festivities to talk to them about what's been going on in their lives when it comes to gender equality and also who they'd like us. to look out for in the upcoming months and years. So join us, and hopefully by the end of this, we'll also be hearing from the 2019 winner of the Women's Prize for Fiction.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are about to commence the 2019 award ceremony. I'm Naomi Alderman. I won the Women's Prize for Fiction in 2017 for my novel The Power, which is about what happens when all of a sudden, almost all the women in the world, develop the power to eliminate,

electrocute people at will. And it's a fantastic book. I read it recently. Thank you very much. Have you have you started to be able to electrocute people? I mean, I'm trying, but you know, as you put in the book sometimes some people just aren't born with the gift, are they? Oh, I think if enough women believe in it, we will make it come true. Right. So Naomi, tell me, what are the current issues that are, you know, burning a hole through your brain when it comes to gender equality? You know, what are the things that most incents you about the world right now? Oh my God. Everything in the world incenses me. I suppose I just think there's always

in the world of feminism over the past 150 years the women's movement, let's say, there has been a pendulum swing effect. So it goes people get, women get full of energy, very, very angry, something's changed and then there's a sort of the tide turns back,

things wash away, things get eroded. And I feel like we are in that phase right now where I think a lot of women around the world are saying are things that we have accomplished going to be eroded. The power my novel is currently being made for TV with Amazon and Sister Pictures and the director of Reid Murano and we all agreed

has taken the decision to pull our filming out of Georgia because of their stance on women's control of their bodies. I mean it's a very simple question. question really, we cannot film in any place where we could not keep our female members of staff safe. And if the answer is, you know, there are places now in the United States of America where you can't get medical treatment that you need and want in a timely fashion, then, yeah, I'm afraid we can't film there. And I really, really support that. You know, the writer Grace Paley, a brilliant American writer, wrote a wonderful essay, which I would encourage everybody.

to go and seek out called the illegal days because she remembers when abortion was illegal in the United States of America. And the point that she makes in that essay is at the point that abortion is illegal, all women's health is at risk because doctors will not treat you for fear of being thought to have caused an abortion. So she, for example, suffered a miscarriage. she during the miscarriage, heavily bleeding, called her doctor to ask for some help, but the doctor said, no, don't come. Can you imagine?

She had a friend even more serious, turned up at a hospital, bleeding very, very heavily, hemorrhaging from the womb. They said, well, there's a chance you might be pregnant, and so we need to leave it until we have confirmed using tests and scans. It turned out, no, she had a tumour, but they left it for two days

whilst they worked out what was going on. And the answer is, if abortion is not legal, any woman between the age of 10 and 60 is at risk of not being able to be treated for serious medical problems because there's an operation you're not allowed to perform on a woman. If we allow there to be an operation, you're not allowed to perform on a woman, then we're all stuffed, basically. So I think a lot of us looking at the world right now, thinking in many, many ways, the world seems to be trying to go backwards. I think we do need to be wary about the rights that we have already grasped. I think we can also aim for more.

I think, you know, the situation with parental leave in this country is still not good. The situation with equal pay is still not good. So from those perspectives, I'm not necessarily going, oh God, when are we, when should we go, when should we decide that we're going back to the Hamme's tail? Let's not. Let's instead, let's instead imagine that it could get even better from here. I mean, certainly, as a Jewish person, I have that thought in my mind of when should you leave the country? And I have a few little bellwethers in my mind, but what are you going to do? You can't go to a country where everything is fine for women.

That country doesn't exist. So we're all in it together. there is a thing I've said often about the power the novel which is each of us is only as free as the least free of us and it's very very true for women I mean if we think about countries in the world that we cannot visit because the women there are not free and because we would not be free the moment that we stepped over the border yeah we're only as free as the least free among us you mentioned grace paley's essay I was wondering if there were any other interesting women whom you'd like to have to have highlight whose work, specific pieces of work even, that you think our readers should pay attention

to. Oh, wow. Gosh, there are so many. I would really love to encourage everybody to go back to the work of Octavia Butler, who is, was American science fiction author, very, very prescient about the current situation in the world and about what kind of leadership we need in times of crisis. I would super encourage everyone to go back to the work of Ursula Le Guin, who just, she's always attentive

to the problems of every society. It's interesting, both her parents were anthropologists, and she writes with an anthropologist's eye about humanity and the human condition. So there is no such thing in the work of Ursula Le Guin, who writes about all sorts of different societies, and there's no

such thing as a utopia. And she said, well, I don't think that exists. Every society is always forgetting about somebody's rights, leaving somebody out, sideline somebody. And what can we expect, therefore? We cannot expect ever to live in a world that is already perfected. Our role, if we are activists and if we are thinkers, is to be constantly attentive to who is being left out and be constantly trying to remake that balance.

I'm about to say a very hokey thing. But of course, that's the human situation, is we balance on our two feet, unlike most animals, by constantly noticing what's out of balance, constantly throwing ourselves off balance and then moving forward and moving forward, and that's how we move forward. So that is a little bit hokey, but on the other hand, sort of, I do believe it about the human condition, actually.

We must keep fighting. We must keep fighting. And we must keep believing in what we know to be right. I'm Stanley Tucci, and I'm an actor, director, writer, who lives in London. Stanley, what do you think are the key issues in your world of entertainment at the moment? Obviously, Hollywood's been through such a tumultuous time since the Me Too allegations. How would you say gender equality has progressed since then?

I think what's been very positive is that people are much more aware of sexual harassment, and that has always been a huge issue in our industry. but in any industry. That's going to make a really big difference. I think we're going to see more women directors and writers coming to the fore. I think there'll be many more opportunities. There was an actress many years ago, Ida Lu Pino, this is in the 1940s, who became a very good director.

And it was very unusual for a woman to direct at that time. And it took many, many more years for, it's taken many, many more years for women to reach that place again. You mentioned someone like Ida. Are there any other women who are presently living, whom you want to give a shout out to, whom you think are doing amazing things in Hollywood? Oh, yeah.

Well, Catherine Bigelow has been around for a while now and is known also for sort of high testosterone movies. You know, she's a wonderful director. I just worked with a young woman named Sarah Colangelo. And she's one of the best directors I've ever worked with. Smart, collaborative, kind. And for a person, so young, I mean, she's probably in her 30s. Everyone's young to me now.

I just thought she was extraordinary. And I just, it's great to, it's just really nice to work with women directors. What else do you think needs to be done so that more women get behind the camera? Really what we need, I suppose, in places like Sundance, where I used to work as an advisor,

we need to encourage and accept women fellows into the labs and film schools as well. I've always been a big believer also in making short films and that those short films should actually proceed films that are in the theaters. And I think that would be a really great opportunity for filmmakers to create something that's theirs that a lot of people would see.

So sort of a little bit like how when you watch a Pixar feature, they'll always have a little Pixar short film playing ahead of it. Yeah. And there wasn't a little Pixar short film playing ahead of it. attempt to do this a long time ago, I remember, but it didn't happen. Like when I was a kid, you'd go to the movies and you'd see a cartoon or a couple cartoons and you'd see something and then the feature would start. Now we just see an hour of previews and that's kind of it. But how cool would it be if connected to whatever film that is, whoever distributed the film or whoever, you know, if there were like a couple of short films, those films could be six minutes long. Are there any big moments or even new releases that you're particularly looking forward to that are produced or directed or starring women that you're very interested in highlighting? Anything Isabel Uper does.

I was thinking about Isabelle Uper. You know Isabelle Uper as the French actress? She's incredible. She was making movies with Claude Chabrole. She's just an extraordinary actress. I saw she had a film coming out recently. So I was listening to Radio 4 this morning. There was a woman named Carrie Hudson

who was reading from her a memoir called Lowborn of her childhood growing up very poor in sort of dire circumstances and unfortunate circumstances. It's absolutely beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. And of course, Dali Alderton, which is a podcast I did,

a little while ago. Her book is just great and she's just great. I mean, there's just an endless, it's an endless landscape. I'm Viv Groskopp. I'm a writer, comedian and author of a book called How to Own the Room, Women and the Art of Brilliant Speaking. So I would like to know what are the key issues in your own personal world at the moment

when it comes to gender equality? What are the things that are really preying on your mind? I'd love to say at the age of 45 and after, 25 years in comedy, journalism and publishing that all the issues have been solved and I no longer have any gender issues and I'd love to be able to tell that to my 12 year old daughter. Where are we up to and how has it improved in the last 25 years? Because I've probably been thinking about this since my early 20s. I do feel incredibly hopeful about the new generation of women who are coming through in their late

teens and 20s and the explosion of podcast, books, pop-up events, all kinds of things that are going on that people are taking matters into their own hands, creating their own audiences and starting their own debates. And when I first started out in writing, you always had to go to the gatekeepers to make these things happen. And I think that's been the biggest shift of the last 10, 15 years. And I just feel so incredibly inspired by that, even though sometimes it makes me feel like I am 153. Are there any key moments or developments coming up that you think our listeners should pay attention to?

One moment I think that is going to be very interesting is to see what happens next with Angela Merkel retiring from her position as I think the most powerful woman of the last 30 years and she's somebody that I focus on an awful lot as a public speaker and as a figure who women can look up to because there have been so much talk over the last 10 years

and in the last year since Becoming came out about Michelle Obama and what an amazing figure she is and I think we're going to see a lot more interesting things from her over the next couple of years but I'm interested to see what Angela Merkel does next who replaces her, how that acts is of power changes in Europe and how that is going to affect how women feel represented in politics. And obviously there's lots going on in the UK as well and it will be interesting to see how

women are represented right at the top. So the people who are really, really interesting are the people who wield power and policy decisions. And those are the women that we need to see more of. Are there any women champions that you think our listeners should know about and even look up to? This is a slightly strange answer, but in terms of women who will make you feel great about being a woman, I'm going to mention someone who's dead, and I hope that's not a complete downer. But there's a Russian writer who I really revere called Anna Ahmadivar. She is Russia's answer to Jane Austen or Virginia Woolf. She's a wonderful poet who was born in the late 19th century and died in the 1960s. and she has this beautiful poetry about love, about femininity, about heartbreak, about what it's like to live through tragedy. And a lot of young women are rediscovering her work now and she's having a bit of a moment. There are lots of new translations coming out because she's this huge figure in Russia.

But in the Western world we haven't really heard of her. So I would encourage people to seek her out and read her work because it's so inspiring. Yeah, it's great to look up to women who are on the scene now and making things happen now. But I think what's great about this moment is that there's so much rediscovery and reinvention of what history means and revisionism and looking at women in the 19th and the 20th century who did extraordinary things that were not in the spotlight at the time. And I think part of the movement now should be about shining that spotlight on those women, even if they're no longer around. This podcast is made in partnership with Bailey's Irish cream. Bayleys is proud to shine in light on women and their achievements

by getting more books written by truly remarkable women into the hands of more people. Bailey's is the perfect adult treat, whether in coffee, over ice cream, or paired with your favorite shortlisted book. And now, back by popular demand, discover somewhere in a bottle with Bailey's strawberries and cream. My name is Catherine Mayer. I'm an author, journalist and politician. I'm the co-founder of the Women's Equality Party and recently also the co-founder of a new festival,

a new literary festival called Prima Donna. I know you wear a lot of hats. Could you talk me through some of the key issues in your specific world at the moment, both good and bad when it comes to gender equality? Well, it's an amazing period of time because we are living through unprecedented turbulence when I started the Women's Equality Party

which is only four years ago, it was with an expectation that we could speed progress towards gender equality. Now we find ourselves defending some of the rights and protections that we thought secure. So we're at this state of emergency, I would say. You see reproductive rights being attacked everywhere.

You see the rise of terrible, regressive populism. But in that turbulence, there is also this huge opportunity to make change at speed. so I'm all about grabbing that. What are some of the things that you've done personally in your life recently to take advantage of this very rare moment in time? Well, I found myself running as a candidate in the European elections, which wasn't something that I'd ever expected to do.

It was fascinating. The thing that was most exciting was the calibre of the other candidates that stood for the Women's Equality Party with me and also the impact we had. We had, effectively because of so-called impartiality rules, we had no broadcast coverage whatsoever, we had almost no press coverage, we had basically no ground campaign. And even so, we got 24,000 votes in London, which is an amazing indication of how much appetite there is for change. And we were able, in creating a manifesto, what you were doing is you're imagining the world as it could be. and we created this manifesto that is going to resonate for years to come.

So that was all very exciting. And then, of course, I mentioned that I've co-founded a new festival, and in fact, that was inspired directly by my experience of being a judge for the Women's Prize last year, because it was wonderful being a judge, but also terrifying because there were so many such brilliant books, and you realised that it was only when, you looked at what you were doing that you realized these were all books by women,

you would never have seen it as in any way a narrow segment of talent that was being represented. And what, in fact, you were seeing was the kinds of books that very often don't break through because there are so many structural barriers to women succeeding, to women getting nominated for prizes, to women getting serious reviews for their work. And so it was really, really, um, inspiring to see all of that, but I started thinking, well, as an author, I go around festivals all the time, and I very often meet the same people. It feels a bit like a club, and it's some of the same problems that we're seeing. So how can we reshape this to celebrate that huge diversity, but also help new voices break through? So we've created the prima donna festival. It's going to be really exciting. It's going to be really fun. It's in Suffolk at the end of August. And one of our Any headline appearances is from somebody who shortlisted for the Women's Prize this year, Diane Evans. Besides the festival itself, there's a prize, which is a complement to the Women's Prize.

So the Women's Prize is, of course, for published work. This is to get through unpublished voices. So we've got that prize going now. To enter, all you have to do is write 500 words on the subject of Prima Donna. The deadline for the prize is the 27th of June for the first round. of entries. So I'd encourage people, by the way of all genders, to get writing. And it's going to be the first prize that's fully anonymised. So we won't, as judges, know anything about the people submitting. That's so exciting. Why do you think it's important to anonymise the submissions?

Again, something I noticed during my judging for the women's prize, because I realized how influenced I am by cover design, by cover blurbs, by knowing the name of somebody. You know, you can infer so much from somebody's name. And so what we're doing is we wanted to strip away at some of that kind of unconscious bias that comes into play. We're also going to not pay any attention to whether people can spell or not, for example, because these are things that carry far more weight than they should. Obviously, you're a big champion of unheard voices

and people who don't get heard from very often. Are there any women champions in particular, that you think our listeners should know about? Yeah, well, I mentioned the great candidates I just stood with, and they're all brilliant, but one really is so amazing, and you can check her out on Twitter. She's called Dr. Hannah Barron Brown, and she's a junior doctor who's also disabled,

who is campaigning on so many different fronts and holding down this job, and she's just exactly the kind of voice you need in politics. And I'll also name somebody who, is making a huge difference. Athena Stevens. She recently became the first individual in a wheelchair to be nominated for an Olivier Award

and has also been the first actress in a wheelchair to be nominated for an Offi. And so she writes her own stuff and she performs it. These are amazing women. They are campaigning both by what they say but also by what they do, how they live. Hello, my name is Atahue You Agba and I am a writer

and the author of Little Black Book, which is a career guide for working women. Otega, what are the key issues in your own world at the minute, both good and bad in terms of gender equality? Like, what's on your mind? I think the thing that is always on my mind that I'm always thinking about is money. I'm currently working on a book about women and money because it's a topic that I've always been interested in. And, I mean, as obvious something is the gender pay gap,

which, as we know, has actually increased this year, based on last year, the stats that were released back in April 2019 are actually larger than the stats in 2018, which is really disappointing. But also how money feeds into the lives of creative women in all sorts of ways, how you make money, how you monetise your ideas, how you get published, can you make a living as a writer? I'm always thinking about money. And for me, just kind of communicating that with creative women is really key.

So obviously you're writing this book all about money and women. What do you think needs to change so that women can feel more comfortable talking in hard numbers about what they earn, how they earn it? I think people need to shame women less for actively seeking money. And it's not just something, you know, it's easy to say like men need to do this, men need to do that, but actually it's something that we both men and women do. I've seen, I've seen and heard examples of women being shamed by other women for asking for pay rise and that sort of thing.

So I think we really need to, it's the 21st century, we need to realize that a woman kind of asserting her work isn't something that's unfeminine or inelegant, which is, you know, a word I've heard used again and again. That for me is really the big thing because I do think part of the reason women might maybe be a bit more reticent, although there have been studies show that women actually do negotiate for payor-rises and often as men. But one of the reasons it's harder to talk about it openly is because it's seen as quite goate when women do it, and it's slightly more expected for men. So I think that kind of social perception of women and money needs to change. When it comes to women and money Who do you think are the actual people who are talking good sense?

I think Laura Waitley, who used to be the Times as Money columnist, millennial money columnist, and has also written a book Money Users Guide, which is kind of just a real one-on-one about everything money-related. It went viral on Twitter a couple of weeks ago, her book because it's so simple, but it's stuff that we often don't get taught in schools. And I think just for kind of sheer practical advice, that's a really good place that people can look at.

So yeah, that would be someone. speak a lot about women in the creative industries. How can women get better pay? How can we be better represented in these industries? Are there any people in that sphere that you think are really killing it at the minute? I think the whole Galdem team, so Galdem is the media platform that is run by women and non-binary people of colour. And I really, really admire their ethos, how they really stick to their guns and their ethics, and generally just how they get stuff done. Like, they've really grown over the past couple of years. And it It just shares stories when it comes to politics, culture, music, arts, basically everything cultural.

Through a lens that I think is really relevant to women of colour and people of colour and also isn't necessarily, is a bit overlooked by mainstream media. But to be honest, I think Galdon are given most of the mainstream media publications are run for their money. Hi, I'm Leila Hussain. I'm a psychotherapist and a leading social activist, but I'm also one of the judges for the book prize this year. So tonight must be the combination of a long process of judging for you. What was that like for you? This process has been, I was actually saying to a friend of mine this morning,

early last year I promised myself I'll do something for me, just for me. And this was one of those things. I've been a big supporter of prize for many years now. I feel like I've been part of this community. And when Kate Moss asked me last year, I just said yes before she even finished sentence. So I'm actually a little bit sad.

that it's actually ending. Actually, in my living room, it's just full of books at the moment. And I have a special shelf just for female writers, which I've never had before. So every time I think about it and I look at it, I feel very emotional. I'm like, wow, you know, all written by women or fiction, which is, you know, quite rare in what we see. How do you find time for that? I mean, I travel a lot for my other job, so a lot of my hand luggage was these books. I'm forever reading reports.

So for me, I mean, I always told the story how I missed a flight reading a book. I literally missed my flight. I didn't hear anyone calling for me. I was so, I get lost in books. But I felt so responsible for these books. And especially I work in my other work, I'm forever working in an environment where I'm a voice for other women who don't have a voice. So I felt that also played a role in this, where I became the voice for these women. And every time I walked into the judging panel's room,

I was like, okay, I've got my gloves on, boxing gloves on, I'm going to fight nicely. You know, it was like that kind of, I would disclose that straight away. So it felt like, but it was nice. And we were, I think for me this whole experience, I loved how we were also loving about the books, all of us. So from reading all these books, were there any kind of themes that you noticed,

emerging in women's literature? For me, the current theme I kept seeing was, Interestingly enough, violence, there was a lot of theme around violence in the books that I read. There was a lot of, and actually, I'm someone who welcomes that because I work in a field where women are not expressing violence, so I'm not allowed to talk about violence. So I welcome to those books. So to me, it meant a lot that actually violence also could be written in such a beautiful way. So I saw, and there were so many heroines as well.

social justice was also a current theme in this year's books. So yeah, and it's really weird. I thought at one point, are they sending me these books because they know the jobs that I'm doing? But actually, when we all met, that was a very current thing with most of the books. So tell me, how do you feel like gender equality is progressing in your specific industry, in your nation, your field of activism? I think in terms of gender equality, I think a sentence that I recently heard by, Kate Goslin, who's the Deputy Commission of Human Rights at the UN, said,

us women in the West who have privilege don't need hope. All we need is courage. But women in countries where literally they have no voice in a place like Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran. Those are the women who need hope. So we are talking about it. So that's where I feel in terms of gender equality, nothing's fixed, actually. I think everything is up in the way. the air, but the fact we're talking about it and actually acknowledging it in such a way,

it's super important. I just came back from a conference called Oslo Freedom Forum, which takes place every year. And this is the 11th year, and it's found about the Human Rights Foundation, and this is really a collective human rights defenders who come together every year. And this is where we share good practice, but it's also a place where we found solidarity when in each other. space, you know, there's women like Mano al-Sharif who led the campaign for women's right to drive inside Arabia. Kim Montley, who's one of the biggest human rights lawyers around the world. I mean, she's traveling between Bolivia, Cuba,

releasing censored journalists. So for me, I have a, when we're talking gender equality, one thing I'm very passionate about is censorship. I don't like anyone being censored. And women are forever censored based on their gender. So that is definitely a community. I would definitely ask the listeners to really look into. I mean, there's a whole long list of people I can recommend, but the women in that community

are absolutely kick-hats. I really cannot. And they don't do BS. I like women who absolutely have direct conversations about gender equality. I mean, recently I got told on a panel of discussion, I'm depressing people, apparently, with my status about women. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. I'm depressing you, because it is depressing.

That's the whole point. And I will not apologize for that, but it's nice to be a space like this at the Women's Prize where we can actually have a celebration tonight. What can you tell me about the winner of the prize without giving away who it actually is? Wow. All I can say is as judges, we...

I mean, we loved all the books, but this was quite special. This is a very important book. Yep, that's all I'm going to say. Come to speak to me afterwards when we announce it. As a registered charity, the Women's Prize for Fiction creates opportunities for women to thrive and flourish,

and joining the prize's patron circle is one way that you can lend your support. There are various levels of involvement, and each and every donation makes a difference. You can find more information about the benefits on the website, and it's quick and easy to sign up. Just Google Support Us Women's Prize. Now to the main business of the evening, which is the celebration of the 2019 shortlisted authors,

and the announcement of the 24th winner of the Women's Prize for Fiction. So please give a huge Bedford Square welcome to the chair of the 2019 judging panel, Professor Kate Williams. So thrilling to be here. I'm absolutely overwhelmed to be here. My fellow judges and I, the fabulous and wonderful and so devoted,

Arifah Akbar, Dolly Alderton, Leila Hussain and Sarah Wood. Well, we had the best job in the world to read over 160 magnificent books in what's been a bump a year for women's fiction. I don't think my delivery man likes me very much anymore because he's been dragging these big boxes of books of now, but it was amazing to read them all.

What a fabulous submission we had. But we all know there can be only one winner. So this book... I'm so excited. This book captivated us from the very start. It's a touching portrayal of a very special bond between two people whose lives twist and turn, who have hopes and dreams, who must find courage in the face of devastating adversity,

a blasting light on injustice and prejudice and what it means to be human. The winner of the 2019 Women's Prize of Fiction is Tairi Jones with an American marriage. Thank you very much to all of you for coming. Thank you to the judges. Thank you to the Women's Prize for caring about women's voices. I think we need women's voices now in these times more than ever. I would like to thank my publisher, Juliet Mabaybe, and One World Publisher. I think of them as the independent press that cares.

They took a chance on me. I've never been published in the UK before, and they opened their arms to me, and I appreciate it. And I would like to ask all of you to keep in your hearts and have empathy for the millions of people who are incarcerated all around the world. They are being incarcerated in our names, and I ask that you, hold your governments accountable for the people who are held in bondage in our names. Every time a person is incarcerated, it represents a family separation. I would also like to thank my fellow nominees. You know, a lot is made of speaking truth to power. People say that all the time, but I feel that all of the nominees have.

written accessible work because we are bringing truth to the people and the people are the power. Thank you very much. So we are here about to speak to the winner of the Women's Prize, Tari Jones. She is en route. Good to see you again. Can you believe this? Okay, I'm ready. Okay. How are you feeling? I am delighted. I'm thrilled and I mean it means so much to be chosen for for this particular award, because it's an award that rewards merit and also it has a mission. I was so moved by your speech. I mean, are you hoping that that's what this prize will do for the issues? You know, I feel that what fiction does, like I said, is that fiction brings truth to the people.

And I feel like if people start talking about mass incarceration, each of us knows someone who has a loved one who's incarcerated. Very often the people, you know, they keep it secret because they're ashamed. But the more we talk about it, the more you find out that it is your neighbor's son who is incarcerated. It is your co-worker's husband. It humanizes the issue. And I hope that people will raise their voices because the governments are holding people incarcerated in our name. How are you feeling waiting for the prize winner to be announced? Were you nervous?

Were you just like, it's in God's hands? I can't do anything about it. Both. I felt very nervous and I felt that it was in God's hands. But honestly, my fellow nominees were such awesome writers, so many beautiful books that I would not have minded to not be chosen for any of them. Because all of their books each bring light on something that needs light. And I'm just honored to be in their company. How did it feel when your name was announced?

I was, you know, I was nervous when she started describing the book. It sounded like my book, but it also met the description of many of the other books because they are all. powerful stories of human relationships. But when she said my name, tears came to my eyes. I was honored. I was thrilled. And overall, I was grateful. Can you describe the prize? You're holding it in your hand right now, actually. It is a bronze sculpture of a woman, and she has a very intelligent face. She looks contemplative. It fits in the palm of my hand, but there's a sense that I'm holding something much bigger. So we've come to the end of the 2019 Women's Prize for Fiction. It's been an incredible journey. I've learned personally so much from

speaking to so many interesting women and authors about their journeys to becoming writers and the tips and kind of advice they would give to other women who feel like they should be putting words to page as well. I'm Zing Singh and you've been listening to the Women's Prize for Fiction podcast, produced by Fremantle and brought to you by Bayle's. So we have our winning book, Tiari Jones. We've just heard from Teari, but it is definitely worth checking out any and all the books on the short list and long list because this endeavour, this whole thing is also about sending love to all the brilliant women writers from all over the world. And the mission doesn't end tonight, so please click subscribe and rate this podcast to help us support and honour all their voices. And of course, thank you so much for listening.