Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast - S6 Ep12: Bookshelfie: Alex Scott

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Alex Scott MBE joins Vick at The Women’s Prize Live Festival  to talk about her journey to self-acceptance, dealing with online trolls and THAT World Cup moment in Qatar. Alex is a former professional footballer, presenter, and broadcaster. The former Arsenal Captain and England Centurion is also one of the nation’s most beloved presenters. In 2021, Alex began her new role as host of BBC’s Football Focus, the first permanent female host in its 47-year history. Earlier this week, she was the co-host of UNICEF’s Soccer Aid and also lends her support to the domestic abuse charity, Refuge. In 2022, Alex published her Sunday Times Bestselling memoir, How (Not) To Be Strong,  in which she candidly shares the lessons and challenges that have shaped her.  Alex’s book choices are:  **Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton  **Becoming by Michelle Obama **A History of the World in 21 Women by Jenny Murray **Manifest by Roxi Nafousi **Untamed by Glennon Doyle Vick Hope, multi-award winning TV and BBC Radio 1 presenter, author and journalist, is the host of season six of the Women’s Prize for Fiction Podcast. Every week, Vick will be joined by another inspirational woman to discuss the work of incredible female authors. The Women’s Prize is one of the most prestigious literary awards in the world, and they continue to champion the very best books written by women. Don’t want to miss the rest of Season Six? Listen and subscribe now! This podcast is sponsored by Baileys and produced by Bird Lime Media.

At Harrison Healthcare, we know that lasting health starts with personalized care. We're not just a clinic. We're your partner in prevention, helping you achieve your health and longevity goals. Our expert team combines evidence-based medicine with the compassionate, unhurried care you and your family deserve today and for many years to come. When it comes to your health, you shouldn't settle for anything less than exceptional. Visit harrisonhealthcare.ca.ca.com.com.com.com. slash Toronto. Thank you so, so much for taking the time to join us to be here today. Welcome to this very special episode of bookshelfy brought to you from the Women's Prize live in London's Bedford Square Gardens in front of a wonderful live audience. Can we hear it one more time? With thanks to Bayleys, this is the Women's Prize for Fiction Podcast.

Celebrating women's writing, sharing our creativity, our voices and our perspectives, all while championing the very best fiction written by women around the world. I'm Vic Hope and I'm your host for season six of Bookshelfy, the podcast that asks women with lives as inspiring as any fiction to share the five books by women that have shaped them. Join me and my incredible guests as we talk about the books you'll be adding to your 2023 reading list. Welcome to a very special live episode of Bookshelfy and I am absolutely delighted to be joined on stage by a trailblazer, a powerhouse, Alex Scott MVE, who is a former professional footballer, presenter, a broadcaster,

the former Arsenal captain and England Centurion, who is one of the nation's most beloved presenters. Honestly, honestly, it's true, though. Thank you. In 2021, Alex began her new role as host of BBC's Football Focus, the first permanent female host in its 47-year history. And earlier this week, she was the co-host of UNICEF Soccerade and also lends her support to the domestic abuse charity refuge.

In 2022, Alex published her bestselling memoir, How Not to Be Strong, a memoir in which she candidly shares the lessons and challenges that have shaped her. Please welcome to the podcast, Alex Scott. Thank you. Thanks, bit. Alex, I remember you telling me about your book, and we were at an event, and you said it's something that resonates for a lot of people, and I hadn't read it yet. And literally, as those words left,

your mouth, a man came up to us and wanted to talk to you about it and he was like, this is something that really helped me, it really hit me hard. How does it feel putting pen to paper and then it having that effect? To be honest, when I wrote the book, I wasn't thinking about anyone else or the impact that it would have, like most of the things that I've done, actually. I think if that was the intention going into it, then maybe you wouldn't have got the raw, honest, because you're thinking about other people and their thoughts on the book. I just knew I needed to offload a lot of stuff that I'd been hiding and felt shameful about.

And I'd been on a journey through therapy, and I was ready to share it and be like, I'm not hiding who I am or what I've been through in my life anymore because I'm ready for a next chapter. And also, you know, a big story in it is obviously my mum. I wanted her to be able to read it and see how special she was and is to me because she's just like my superhero, my mum. But yeah, I've obviously finished it

and one of the final chapters is that letter to your mum. You made me cry, mate. Sorry. It's a lot, but it's a book that shows so many facets of you. I didn't know, I had no idea. Yeah. It is exceptionally raw. Have you always wanted to write?

Have you thought that your story was one that you wanted to tell? No. Like that? I think if I go back to that girl in the east end of London on a council estate, at the end of my road was a football cage, concrete football cage and it was nothing. I would never have thought that one day I'd be here writing a book, Sunday Times bestseller.

And like you said, for people to come up to me in the street and tell me how powerful it is that it's impacted their lives. I don't think it's still sunk in. What is your relationship like with books? Have you always been a reader? Yes. I think it's always been because it was a place to escape for me. You get lost.

It allows you to dream. of something bigger than maybe the environment that you're in. So I felt a book to pick up any kind of book was always my go-to. My reading choice has developed, I would say, over the years in terms of what I look for in a book now. I suppose it depends what mindset you're in. Sometimes you just totally want to escape with a love story or a crime novel, or actually I pick up a book and I'm like,

what can I learn from this? What nuggets am I going to take to help me improve my self-development as a person? Yeah. You know what? Everyone deserves escape, and there is no... That's where we're all here. throw in a literature party because we love it, we need it, we deserve it. And for someone as busy as yourself, I can imagine that getting lost on the pages of the book is a real relief sometimes.

It really is. Like, say tomorrow, I've got some downtime, so I'm going away for a bit. And reading, that allows me to switch off from the hectic lifestyle and the work environment. And like you said, just escape and allow your thoughts to not wonder to work or what's next, but actually just be present and lost in that current story. Well, you've brought five books today that you feel are important to you that have shaped you, that spoke to you. So let's get straight into it. Your first bookshelfy book today is The Beautiful, The Brilliant, Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton, the heartwarming memoir and also now hit TV show follows Dolly from childhood to adulthood as she navigates heart, humiliation, and most importantly, the female friendships that hold it all together.

That is the love. It's full of wit, it's full of heart and humour. and it's a book to just press into the hands of every woman who has ever been there or is about to find themselves taking that first step towards their rest of their lives. Why did you love it? This was a book that surprised me. I love when people recommend things to me. And I remember a friend saying, Alex, you'd really love this book.

You'll connect with it. So I was like, okay, I'll give it a go. And what I found myself, apart from being lost in it, was I feel like I could hear myself the way Dolly writes and her stories of London. Like, I had similar paths or where she would go and hang out with her friends.

And like you said, that link between other female friendship groups. And I just heard so many of what she was writing within myself and my own stories. And it's like, you know when you're reading something, you can just hear yourself within it. And I always loved how, and do, how Dolly writes. I think it's just incredible.

There's such an easy read and so many bits that you're like, yep, that happened in my life. life, like one minute you're emotional and the next minute you're reading the other page and you're bursting out laughing. It's probably the most shared book in my girls' WhatsApp group. Is it? Yeah. Like my female friends, we just, we could relate to so many things that she writes about and she writes about them in a way that is so zeitgeisty and so funny. And one of the things that I always find stands out is drawing from these mistakes, we all make them. We make so many mistakes for our lives. What are the mistakes that have been overall positive for you that you've

learned from that you've grown from. I think that's the thing. Like sometimes we can look at mistakes as such a negative where I've always been of the mindset, okay, this has happened, but what can I take and what can I learn from it to be better? So there's been so many situations, say within jobs or actually on a path to get somewhere. And I'm like, okay, this didn't happen. Why? I need to go away. And instead of maybe pointing fingers and blaming other people, it's like, well, what did I do in that moment? And what do I need to be better? So in terms of saying like mistakes and looking at it as a negative, I always flip it to the positive side of things. He said you relate to this book and you speak, you know, very openly in your novel about your

upbringing, about growing up in Aberfelsie. And of course, Alderson's childhood, it's very different. You know, she grew up in this suburb of Stanmore. She had access to private education. How did you find your experience differed? You know, did this make her narrative any less relatable? No, because actually my best friend is we came. came together when we were 13, Regan, and Regan went to private school. So we're totally opposite lives, but football through sport brought us together. And our friendship has always been so beautiful because we're so different. So I suppose within Dolly's upbringing, that's what I saw with Regan.

Like, I was the one that took Regan on her first ever night bus, or on the tube, you know, because she's come from her family, that drove her to football, took her everywhere. Like you said, she went to, like, Banquoth school, and everything was just great. in her world, but actually, like we know, everything is not perfect. So, like, she came into my world and actually took so many learnings, and our friendship has just always been so beautiful. Those learnings do so often come back to love, and I don't just mean romantic love. You do have a chapter in your book about romantic love, but also the love of friends,

the love of your family, those who've been there for you, your peers even. Talk to us about the influence of love in your life, in all its types. What are the great loves of your life, Alex? Well, the one that screams out to me is my mum. You know, there's so many topics that I speak about. Like you said about the letter and finding out over the last couple of years that my mum's got MS. So this is a new journey that we're on that I'm now having to educate myself so I can help my mum in this field. But obviously, when we're younger with the whole domestic violence and stuff,

it's like we had to show love in a completely different way because we were such in a controlled environment that you couldn't openly hug or give love. but we knew that was always there. But then through the book and over the last couple of years it's actually been able to strip all of that back and learn how to communicate in a way that now I can show love

in the normal sorts of way. But as you said, through friendships that I've always had that, it's mad because I speak about my dog in the book, like the love that I had from my little boxer, Ella, named after Rihanna's song umbrella, Ella, so there's so many different forms and actually what I've loved over the last couple of years now I've worked on myself is allowing new people to come into my life

and instantly have that love in the form of friendships or actually being open to now love again. Because in the book, I speak about that heartbreak, that first love, that deep love that you all want, but then it ended in heartbreak. But now you work through that, and I'm open to allowing that in again. In situations of trauma,

when there has been something that has restricted you from being able to receive love and also being able to give love, It is a huge journey to find that again, to allow yourself that again. What have you learnt about learning how to love? And I don't mean just other people, I also mean yourself. Yeah, that's been a journey. And I think I'm still on that of appreciating myself

and applauding myself to where I've got to and what I've achieved so far. And I think this year is why I'm going away for the next couple of weeks to be able to like, I don't want to look back and have regrets of, I've worked so hard and I keep working because I suppose it's that I've always had that survival instinct that I need to keep going. I don't want to look back and be like, well, what was it all for? Where were the happy moments in all of that? So I think that's the next chapter in my life to allow myself to be like, okay, you've done all right, Al, enjoy the moments. That search for selfhood, I guess, and identity is at the heart of your book and also of Dolly's.

is it something that you feel like you've found personally? Did you even, as you're writing, you know, getting these thoughts onto the page, like I know from journaling every morning, sometimes things that feel jumbled all of a sudden feel less insurmountable. Does that search continue via the prism of you writing? I suppose so. Like being able to write the book, well, I say right, I was on the laptop typing away.

It just felt like Vic, literally it was just all coming off. Like it was so, I would say easy because it was like, like I already knew it was all there and it was like a weight off my shoulder. And so when the book, the paper book is out today, it's like it's freeing. And it's freeing for other people to now know every part of me that if I'm not responding on phone, there's a reason. You know, I'm pulling away and those people have to keep tapping on at me because I run from certain things because it's all too much.

So it was an eye opener for a lot of people that are super close to me. I really like this idea that it has been quite a freeing experience to write this book. It's been an experience in Becoming, which takes us on to your second book, Shelby book, which is Becoming by Michelle Obama, an intimate, powerful and inspiring memoir by the former First Lady of the United States. We follow Michelle from her childhood in the south side of Chicago through her years as an executive, balancing the demands of motherhood and work to her years at the White House. This is the deeply personal reckoning of a woman who has steadily defied expectations and whose story inspires us to do the same.

I mean, yeah. Where do you even start? What a woman? What was the impact of this book on you? Just the realness and the rawness. And I think we're at a stage in life that that's what you connect with always. When you hear someone's honest, raw accounts and you know they're not hiding anything. and to applaud and see what she's been through,

the work that she's put in to get to where she is, you can do nothing but applaud and give her flowers and be like, this is just an incredible, inspiring woman that I know that I can learn from and always take things from. What did you feel you learned from her? Just once again, like, it's not like we already knew her work ethic. I think how she always conducts herself, the love, how she treats people. Famous quote, you know, when they go low, we go high.

It's how you present yourself in certain situations that she always shows up. She's never shy to hide away from anything. And it's like that inspiration that no matter what is thrown at you, you're going to be right. You can make it through. It's just how you look at certain situations. I remember seeing her on her book to Forebecoming. Did you see it? Oh my gosh.

No way, V. I missed it. She sold out the O2. She's like a rock star. I know. It was like a movie in itself, right? Oh, my gosh. Gosh, the way she talked, we were all just the whole row. Everyone around me that I could see, we were all crying.

Like it meant the world to see this woman, to see this black woman. Yeah. Who was conducting herself in this way, who was telling her story and telling it on her own terms. Yes. You know, as someone who is no stranger to being scrutinized and having your words often taken out of context and used as ammunition against you in the press, how important is it to you to be able to tell your truth and tell your story in your own terms? Yeah, and I think what we get from Michelle as well is to always be your true authentic self. And I think that's the thing that I've had to fight and struggle with in broadcasting

because I'm from the east end of London, not privately educated, and we've always had a picture of what people should be on the screen. So then when I came through and the comments that I was getting about my accent and certain things like that, I've always stayed true to myself. I'm like, well, this is a representation of where I've come from and who I am. Why should I change that? Because your perception of life is just so limited in this small pocket. And Michelle does exactly the same.

It is the maddest thing when you think about it that anyone would have a problem with your accent. When the thing that you're there to do is to speak about something that you know inside out. How does it feel when you... I mean, I've seen the tweets in the past and you're very, very well put together, well-articulated responses to them.

How has it felt when you have had... You felt the need to respond to what people... It takes me a lot to get to that moment of responding. So if we take the Olympics when I responded, there was a tweet from Lord Digby Jones saying about my accent and ruining the BBC presentation of that. They'd already been every day the hatred and the same comments. And it was just that night, me seeing that,

I was like at the stage where I'm at breaking point. Like, I've had enough. I'm going to respond. And I remember sitting in my apartment in Manchester. because we were up there for the whole Olympics, so they put us in these rooms. And I'm like, no. Like, why am I hiding and why am I allowing this to go on?

And so, like you said, I wrote a response and just, I think the next day woke up to a response of thousands and thousands of people feel in the same way that the treatment that they'd had had in their lives. And I'm like, whoa, you know, it isn't just me. Same with the book. It wasn't just me going through this story, the impact it has on other people. And it just showed once again that, you know, the representation of the UK and that small-minded person is not a representation of the whole of the UK. There are a lot more people out there supporting you.

They just so maybe shout out as loud. Yeah, we're so English, aren't we? You go, girl, you do this. But the people that come up to me in the street, even being here, you know, today, the impact that is had on their daughters and what I'm doing, that's the reason I've always kept going. Michelle talks in her book about being first lady and being productive and fighting for what she relieves in, but also not overstepping her bounds because that is quite a restrictive role. You're the first lady of the United States. It's only so much you can say. Have you ever felt bound by your career or bound by your responsibilities being on, you know, having a certain platform? Yeah. No. And I think sometimes maybe that's not this got me into trouble, but I'm so raw and a real that if there's a situation, if we go back to the Men's World Cup and Qatar wearing the One Love Armband, it wasn't me doing that or nothing about it was planned or staged. It literally happened within a minute because I was so full of emotion and hurt with everything that was going on. It was my way of being like, I'm going. going to show support and solidarity and be with everyone in this moment. Was I allowed to do that?

That's actually against BBC rules. Obviously, I got a telling off afterwards because you can't do that. But there's certain moments that I know with a fire and a passion within me, I have to say something because it's what I stand for. And when there is a negative reaction, when there are trolls, how do you overcome that? How do you brush it off? With the stuff in the World Cup, it was actually hard because I suppose I'm such as person where everything comes from love or wanting to do right by people, the fact that that one arm band

had divided and created so much hate and so much love, I was so confused by it when actually all we're trying to do in that moment is show is everyone has a place in this world and everyone should be accepted for who they are. And so it took me a while to even get over that. I would say

not until February. I run away like I do in certain situations. As soon as the World Cup ended, I was like, I just need to escape life, which I did. And it's not until I came back to the UK and people were telling me, once again, the impact it had on them and what that moment did for them

that I started to understand the importance of that moment. It's funny, isn't it? In switching off for it, which is a healthy thing because having boundaries is healthy. I don't look at anything. I don't look at any comments.

I don't know what people are saying. And it means I don't know the bad stuff, but I also don't know the good stuff. Yeah. Like I'll just never know because I'm almost too scared and I don't know if that's necessarily the best approach. But I guess it's protecting your energy, isn't it? Yeah, exactly that.

And I think because of the environment we're in, you are, it's like a lot of take from people. But for me, I've always had that connection with fans. It's how I started. It's how they got to know me. So I've never wanted the trolls to win and hide and just run away when, like you said before, there's all this love and appreciation.

for me and I absolutely loved that. I was that young girl who had role models growing up and, you know, so to be so close and be able to show them, I'm here, I'm not hiding, is everything to me. Well, talking of being an inspiration and a role model for young girls and pave in the way, you told us that it was inspiring to read of Michelle's outreach to school girls in the UK.

You announced that all the proceeds from your book will go towards refuge, which is the largest domestic abuse organisation in the UK. And in your statement, you said that this decision just came to you in a distinct moment while you're appearing on BBC Women's Hour. Can you tell us about that realization? Yeah, like I said, writing the book,

I wasn't thinking about either the bigger picture or will it be a Sunday Times bestseller or I just wrote the book. And there was a moment as well because of the stuff about my childhood and my dad, my dad had come out and done a story to say that it didn't happen, which it broke me.

It totally broke me, the fact that I have no hatred towards my dad and what it actually put us through. That I actually, it's weird going through it, but like you said, it sparked this sadness within me that he was able to hurt my mum in that moment by denying it and not even acknowledging and saying sorry to us or moving forward, look, that's the person I was then, here I am now.

Not that I want a relationship with him or anything, but just the acknowledgement. So yeah, that moment broke me and I was going live on Women's Hour and like you said it was just this emotion that I don't want anything from the book that wasn't the reason to make profit or anything but what I can do with it now is help other women who have been through that situation. Thank you. Bailey's is proudly supporting the Women's Prize for Fiction

by helping showcase incredible writing by remarkable women celebrating their accomplishments and getting more of their books into the hands of more people. Bailey's is the perfect adult treat, whether shaken in a cocktail, over ice cream, or paired with your favourite book. Check out baillies.com

for our favourite bailey's recipes. And we will continue to uplift women as we talk about your third book, which is a history of the world in 21 women by Jenny Marie. Britain has traditionally been defined by men, whether it is through its conflict, its conquest, its monarchs.

In this unique history, Jenny Murray tells the stories of 21 women who refused to bow to the established laws of society and whose lives embodied hope and change. Forgotten, visionaries, great artists and trailblazing politicians who all pushed boundaries and revolutionized our worlds. How can you pick this? Well, everything, how you just describe that, I feel like that's the stuff I get so inspired by and want to continue to, achieve and achieve and keep going. You know, when you read stories of other women and what they have been through and what they've had to fight to make place for other women. And that's what I love, like, yes, I've had so many first, BBC, first this and first that. I never set out to be the first. What I did set out to do is allow the doors to be open for other people to come through.

And all the women in that book have paved the way and done the same for us to be here now and made change in the world. And also, crucially, history is so often written by those in power. So the narrative is not, I mean, it's not a science, is it? It's not necessarily factual and it's skewed to fit the story that they want to put out into the world. Women's football is famously undervalued. And you've been a huge part of the change that we've seen. I mean, last summer. Oh, what a summer. Last summer. Oh, that was, we're from the audience. I want to burst out in Sweet Caroline.

Those feelings. And we were just talking actually before we came on stage about, like, I sometimes get scared that you'll have those moments and people will think that's enough and then they'll forget about it and it will just be a flash in the pan or it'll be swept under the carpet. How is that different? That moment is not happening anymore. We've finally reached a stage where everyone can see and connect with every single lioness and see that these are amazing. people fighting to take the sport to the next level. And, you know, Vic, people ask me, do I wish I was part of it now? And I'm like, oh my gosh, no.

Like, I absolutely love that I've been a part of the journey to help it get to where it is. And I'm like that proud sister now, like crying live when they're lifting the trophy, because we know what we've done to get it to this moment. And I think commercially, everything around it, there's no one that can make any excuses anymore that there's not a place for women's football because what we witnessed this last summer, we saw it all. I remember being on air on Radio One when it was taking place when the final was happening.

So we had a little studio, a little monitor up in the studio so we could watch what was happening. And we was just so excited in that studio. And we were getting these messages in from little girls and from their parents saying, like, my daughter really wants to be a part of this team. She really wants to play football. We've literally just enrolled her in.

in a football club now. She's like, she's ready, she's inspired. That's what it's all about. And you say, you know, people say, do you want to be a part of it now? But you are. Yeah. But you're telling the stories.

You're there. Exactly. And totally in a different role. That's why I love the development that I've gone from working in the Arsenal laundry, scrubbing the men's kit to them going to America to play professional, playing in an Olympics to World Cup. You know, I've had all those moments.

And like anything in life, it's time for other people to shine. And you applaud them when they do. And it's their. turn to take the game to the next level and I'm lucky that, you know, I transitioned and like you said, I'm able to tell the stories and still show the emotion of what it actually means. Take yourself back to little Alex Scott in the cages in East London, the age of eight. If you had seen a team of lionesses do what they did last summer, how would that have made you feel?

It would make me feel that I know there's a place for me. where when I was playing, I didn't have one female football role model to look up to. It was all the men. And the only one there was was Mia Hamm, who was the other side of the world in America. She was like this superstar, but no one saw her. We only heard of her.

So for now to be able to go out and buy an England kit and have the lionesses' names of your favourite player, that's where we are at the moment. You know, Leah Williamson is one of my closest friends. and to see just before last summer when we went out, then people would come up to me and not even know Leah. It's the opposite way now. Everyone is just running up to Leah.

Oh my God, Leah, we're on a photo. Can I have an autograph? And I'm sitting there. I'm like, yeah, here we are. Here we are. And it is about supporting one another, raising one another's voices and redefining that narrative, pivoting it,

which is what this book, A History of the World and 21 Women does. Was there any story in particular that inspired you? you when reading this book. Can you tell us about the women you identified with? Well, I think what is so beautiful about the book is there's so many different characters in their female icons to like, you've got your Madonna's and what she did and everything that she had to fight for her different personality to be able to keep evolving as a person

which I feel is so crucial across any walks of life. Because I feel I'm that person, once I know I'm in a comfort zone, then that's the worst place to be. I'm always like, what next? what skill do I need to go and learn? How can I get better? And I think Madonna's story actually in the book shows that. Then you've got other people like Joan of Arc and everything, what she does. It was absolutely incredible. And it's told in such a way that you can just pick things and relate to it and be like, wow, I didn't know that much or that detail.

And how would you like to be remembered historically? Oh, that's a tough one, Vic. You know what? Further down the line, there'll be another version of the book. And, you know, say they're writing about you in it, how would you like to be remembered? I think everyone that knows me in my life would know that I am the kindest human being and shows them nothing but unconditional love. But not in a conventional way, on that way, they know that I love. immensely. So yeah, I think just my characteristics as a person.

I like that, you know, there's all these achievements, all these accolades, but the way I'd like to be remembered, it's someone who gave love. Yeah. And it's true. That's more important, or it's all intertwined. It's all one of the same, that this is the person. Yeah. Well, like the accolades and that's all nice. It doesn't sink in when people roll off this stuff. And it's actually weird because at the back of the book was the first time that I wrote every single achievement I'm right. And I was like, oh my good. Wow. Like, what? I did that.

You did that, but I suppose. I think the moment I sit there and be like, wow, I've achieved this, I've achieved that, I will stop, and we are not there. There's so much more that I want to see and travel and learn from the world. Let's talk about your fourth book, which is Manifist by Roxy Nefussi, potentially helpful for having lots more that you want to see and do in the world.

Manifest it. Written and narrated by Self-Development Coach and Queen of Manifest it. Roxyna Fuzzy. This is a guide for anyone wanting to feel more empowered in their lives. It sets out seven steps to understand the true art of manifestation and create the life of your dreams. You're a fan of manifesting and mindset is so important to you, right? Yeah, I've always been really spiritual, really listen to what's going on around me, energies. And it's like been a journey for me, learning more about it and just being more aware and open.

think when this book came out, I think we're at a stage where it could be seen as a buzzword. I think what she's managed to do in the book is strip all that back and being like, no, I can actually supply tools to help people, just like you said, be empowered in certain situations and to deal with certain situations differently if you're just able to shift your mindsets in different way. And I think she makes it so simple and easy to follow that it's for absolutely everyone and can change your perception of the buzzword, oh, I'm going to go and manifest and something's going to be at the end of my road by the end of the night. It's not about that. It's about helping you on steps in certain situations. I know Roxy has spoken about her journey

to writing this book. She'd been in quite a dark place and it was about building in herself the person that she wanted to be in the world rather than just like magically waving a wand. Yeah, there's something that you want. I know you've been on a journey with your mindset, with finding the positive, with finding the light when it's being dark. What are you manifesting? What am I manifesting?

I think, like I said, it's this next chapter for me is the happy moments and staying more in the light and being a present, not always worrying about the next and rushing to get there, actually enjoying the moments and being around the people, that love me the most because I feel like through football I was always away in the important

moments and missing sacrifice which my family or anything would never change and then I transition straight into TV and it's the same I just keep going and keep going so I think manifesting at the moment is just being the present and being happy and content with where I am at the moment are there any stages of manifestation that you struggle with that you find a little more difficult Yeah, I would say for some, when you think about meditating, I find my brain hard to just sit there and switch off. But actually, I know going for a walk for me is actually the same thing. So I go for a walk for about an hour. Obviously, with this sunshine, it helps. And in those moments, I tell you, Vicks, so many thoughts come flooding in of what I want to do next or what I need to do or just new thoughts and imagining things all of. in just a walk. So I know sometimes you don't have to sit there and close your eyes and be still

for 10 minutes. You can find it in so many different ways. It's a really simple thing. Like it sounds so obvious. Yeah. But it wasn't until the pandemic and we were allowed those one state sanction walks a day. I realized how much I needed it. It needed to be in nature, needed to breathe deeply, to be outside to take in my surroundings and to have that space and that time to just think. When you are in a bad headspace, is that what gets you out? of it. What sort of techniques do you have? I think for me, travel has always been a big thing for me. So I know that I've always, what I've taken from nature. So I do is like mad trips. Like I've been to Cambodia hiking, Peru last year hiking, because I know I come back so energized and seeing

life in a different way. Like, I absolutely love it. I managed to travel to Namibia last year. I went with UNICEF. And it's trips like that that just keep me so grounded and keep me so humbled. and seeing life and what this world is all about and I absolutely love it. I know you're a fan as am I of a solo trip. Yeah. Of like knowing that you are okay on your own. That solitude brings you such peace.

There's a freedom in it. I love the feeling of not having to articulate. So if I go off like the plane and I see something I've never seen before because I've never been there before, I don't have to even say wow, because there's no one around me. I can just internalize that feeling

and it is truly being present. Have you always been okay with your own coming? Or is it something you've had to learn? No, I think I'd always been okay with my own company. What I need to work better on is allowing other people to come into my company and not having walls up, being more free and open to them. But I think the self-travel part, what I love about that is I bring new people into my life, which I always love.

So when I went to Peru, I met a group of women straight away. They come up to me in the first night in the hotel. Didn't know about my background. Someone else in the hotel did until they came over and asked for an autograft. and they're like, why, what do you do? Like, I love that element of just people not knowing anything and taking me from who I am and finding out the realness. And yeah, they're from Chile.

I think one was from Australia. And just learning about other people's lives and their journey, that's why I go on solo trips. Your book talks about mental strength. It is underpinning every single challenge that you've overcome and every single endeavour that you've undertaken, a part of which is learning not to feel. shame about experiencing sadness and it's learning to be vulnerable, how not to be strong.

What has been your journey with reaching this understanding and this sort of acceptance? It's been a path that over the last couple of years through therapy that I've started to understand that I think, you know, in certain instances we've always seen that you have to be this strong woman, the environment, obviously the environment that I grew up in showing strength. if you're sad, unhappy or crying or anything, it's this big massive weakness. So what I've had to do is be able to strip all of that back and actually showing vulnerability is not a weakness.

It can actually be a massive strength. And it is for me at this moment in time because it's allowing people to see different layers of me that they've not seen. It's time to talk about your fifth and final book, shelfy book, which is untamed. This book. Yeah.

By Glenn and Doyle. You know what? I was reading it like literally before I read your book. And then you started talking about Abby in it and I was like, surely it's not the same Abby. Exactly. Oh, it's Glenn and something. Oh, and it was like two worlds colliding.

And then you started talking about Glenn and Doyle's untamed in the book. It got all meta. But I mean, if anyone hasn't read it, it's, yeah. It is really important. It's really special. The tagline of this book is stop pleasing, start living. And that is exactly what New York. Times bestselling author and activist Glennon Doyle sets out to help her readers to do. This is a blend

of memoir and also personal development. It's a guide. It's packed full of energizing advice on how to overcome conformity and embrace your best life. Yes. What about this book do you think caters to you, to women in particular? They're not being scared to start over or start afresh or being like the mindset of not suppose it doesn't work out, but what if it does and jumping into that. And how she explains, like you said, it's that both stages of sharing her personal life and her struggles to actually her development to get to those next chapters. There's so much in it. It's such a page turner you never want to put it down.

And you talk about lockdown. It's actually I met a friend on a walk that, you know, it brought the community together, especially from where I am because then I was managing. and to go out and see different parts of the area I'd never seen. And then this friend is, like, one of my closest friends in my life now, and it's just from lockdown. And she was reading the book, and she was like, this is so you in every form.

Like, you will really take so much from the book. And she was, like, one night, she was like, well, it's weird. Like, she didn't really know who I was or my background within football as well. And she was like, well, I've got to a chapter about football and this girl. She was like, you really just need to read it. And then so that's when I was reading it. I was like, oh, my gosh, she was talking about Abby Wanburne. who I played against so many times

and actually in friends of Abby, but like through all books, you never know someone's true story until you get to that moment and their love and how they come together is one of the most beautiful things ever. That tagline, stop pleasing, start living, resonated as a people pleaser.

Are you a people pleaser? Talk to me about the guilt that is so tied up in people pleasing. I think you just said it there. It's the guilt of me always feeling like if I don't do something for someone, I've let them down or I'm going to hurt them. But in the process, I'm stripping myself with my own energies and what I want to do.

So it's something I still need to work on. Yeah. I'm always so worried about disappointing others. And the truth is that disappointment will either not exist at all or it will be for a millisecond as opposed to the discomfort that it might have caused me to make that decision. To do that. Yeah. Glennon speaks about her experience being a mum and how that impacted her self-perception. We have heard about your mum.

You write about your mum in the memoir, about her strength, about her resilience, about her love and about her pain as well. In Untamed, I think there's a quote that really stood out to me is that we start being a good mother when we stop being an obedient daughter. And I hadn't even thought about it and about how complex that relationship can be.

And do you know what? It's certain taglines like that that when you read the book, you're just like, wow. Yeah. It like takes you to a thought process that simplifies it so much. You're like, I never thought about it that way. Did it change your perception of motherhood reading it? I think for me and how I've viewed my mum, I've always seen her.

She doesn't see herself that way. And I think because I went travelling, I was in different environments from just being in the east end of London, I can see all of the different facets to her that she can't see. So I feel like it's always been me trying to grab that out of her and show her the sunshine within herself. So I think it's been that different kind of relationship, not me mothering her, but trying to show her what she really is.

And we are always going to have different lives to our mothers. Yes. Even though sometimes that's a really hard thing to accept. We focus on the ways in which we're different and think, Oh God, is that okay? Of course it's okay. It's how it's going to have to be. Another part of this book that is huge is taking risks, is making changes in your life, even though they seem really, really scary, something that you're no stranger to, moving from an international football career to broadcasting. How was that transition for you?

It's weird because my first thing would be to say it was easy, but obviously it wasn't because the amount of hard work that went into that. But I say easy because I say easy because I had planned for it, Vic, and I had worked so hard. And I think sometimes people just see the end process and be like, oh, look, you was given that opportunity. You just ended up here. But I lived in America for three years. I came back in 2012.

And I was already doing stuff then in America and knowing that I had such a passion of like this. I think my passions always come from learning from other people. And how do I do that? You have conversation. So interviewing people was me learning and me being like, tell me about your. your life because I want to learn. So I knew that I was so passionate about that. And so when I

came back and re-signed for Arsenal after the Olympics, I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, like anything in my life, I'm going to do it the right way and I'm going to work hard. So whilst I was still playing for Arsenal, I did a media degree. It's like I almost saw into the future. I knew what was going to happen, that people would be judging me and being like, oh, she's just their box ticking and all of this. And I'm like, no one will ever can say anything about me because I know that I've studied, I've worked, I did work placements, that I'm I was running from training to go and do London Live, a TV show that no one even see it was in the background. But this was all giving me the tools and the experience that when I did finally work, Sky and BBC,

like, I had a back catalogue that no one even knew about. And making that decision to retire from football, I mean, I can't imagine it's an easy one. I did a TV show. Or is it? Yeah, did a TV show, Bear Grills, in 2016. And in that moment, I remember it's so cheesy, sitting, we had to keep the fire alight at night. We're on a night watch with the fire. And just looking into the stars, we were in South Africa and being like, I am ready for the next chapter of my life.

I'm ready to leave football. And it's when I came back then, I retired from the England team. And then a couple of months later, I was like, yeah, I'm ready to move on. And I suppose the scary part was that I had no TV contracts. There was no certainty of whether I was even going to do. do it, but I knew in that moment that mentally I was ready to move on from football and I had to listen to that. There was a two-year contract on the table for me, Arsenal waiting for me to sign, but I was like, I can't do it. Being sure enough to say actually, no, thank you. It's been amazing.

That takes a lot of strength. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I cried like maybe. My announcement video and then that when you wake up and you're not going to training, you're like, what is my life going to be now? routine is taken away from you and that's how I identified. Everyone knew me as Alex Scott, Arsenal and England player. So it's like that we're like, what are you now? Who am I now? But actually I was like, no, I'm ready to discover that side of me. And you're not defined by your profession. So if I ask you right now, Alex Scott, who are you now? What are you now? What would be your answer? I would say it's really, because in certain situations and it's weird because people see you on TV. So when I tell people I'm actually shy, they're like, how can you be?

You're on TV. You speak to millions where I'm actually a really shy person. I'm really chilled and laid back. But there's so many moments that I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'll just be in the background, which is weird because I was a captain of a football team. But I've always enjoyed, and I think that's what made me a leader and a captain, of giving platforms for other people to be the voice and feeling like they are valued in life. And in so many ways,

your job is still giving a voice. Those thinkers, a broadcast, you're handing the microphone over to other people. Anything? You're uplifting their story. Those are the moments that look at a big smile that bring me to life, seeing joy in other people and in moments.

And that's why, I don't know, I'm lucky to do what I do, but they're the moments that I live for. Well, you brought a huge amount of joy to us today. Thank you so much. I have one more question to ask you. And it is if you had to choose one of the five, five books that you brought today as your favourite.

Oh. Which would it be in why? I have to say untamed. Like just Glennon, and if you even listen to her podcast and her other stuff, she's just an incredible woman, how she articulates that so real and that you're just, you're mind blown by everything she says.

She's just a powerful, powerful woman, yeah, to have that skill, to have that impact on other people. Well, can we hear it for Alex Scott? live from the Women's Prize live festivals. Honestly, thank you so much for joining us. We have spoken so many times. And there was a lot of stuff that I did not know about you until I read the book.

And I was so excited to get to actually discuss a lot of this stuff that doesn't come up when you meet at a party or whatever over a drink. So honestly, thank you for being so honest and so open with us. And Vic Hoat, you have been listening to the Women's Prize for Fiction podcast live from Bedford Square. the Women's Pires for Fiction podcast is brought to you by Bayleys and produced by Birdline Media. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you for coming.