Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast - S7 Ep10: Bookshelfie: Victoria Prew

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Victoria Prew is an entrepreneur and CEO of fashion rental company HURR, in this episode she explains how she saw a gap in the market for rented luxury fashion and leaned in. Victoria Prew is the CEO and co-founder of HURR Collective, the global home for circular fashion, a community of first-movers, committed to environmental responsibility, setting the tone for the next generation to follow. From idea-in-head to multi-million pound fashion rental business, Victoria has trailblazed the way for young female entrepreneurs to build their businesses. Her accolades for entrepreneurship include Forbes 30 Under 30, and HURR ranks as one of the world’s 50 Top Startups, she’s also been featured in press around the world for her innovative business. Victoria is on a mission to remedy the bad habits of the fashion industry for a greener future without sacrificing quality and style.  Victoria’s book choices are: ** The Tale of Jemima Puddle-Duck by Beatrix Potter ** Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus ** Rodham by Curtis Sittenfeld ** The Long Game by Dorie Clark ** Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg Vick Hope, multi-award winning TV and BBC Radio 1 presenter, author and journalist, is the host of season seven of the Women’s Prize for Fiction Podcast. Every week, Vick will be joined by another inspirational woman to discuss the work of incredible female authors. The Women’s Prize is one of the most prestigious literary awards in the world, and they continue to champion the very best books written by women. Don’t want to miss the rest of season seven? Listen and subscribe now! This podcast is sponsored by Baileys and produced by Bird Lime Media.

At Harrison Healthcare, we know that lasting health starts with personalized care. We're not just a clinic. We're your partner in prevention, helping you achieve your health and longevity goals. Our expert team combines evidence-based medicine with the compassionate, unhurried care you and your family deserve today and for many years to come. When it comes to your health, you shouldn't settle for anything less than exceptional. Visit harrisonhealthcare.ca.ca.com.com. So I've always been fascinated by the idea of the sharing economies. I remember the first time someone told me about an Uber, I was like, what? But being able to rent essentially luxury because I can't buy it, change my life.

It has been the biggest shift from ownership to access. We've seen Airbnb, we've seen Uber do it. And I had looked at those trends and thought, okay, nothing exists like this for fashion. If I can take this massive trend and shift that we're seeing in society and apply it to an area that I find really interesting and that is the second most damaging industry to our environment, I think I could be on to the next big thing. With thanks to Bailey's, this is the Women's Prize for Fiction Podcast, celebrating women's writing, sharing our creativity, our voices and our perspectives, all while championing

the very best fiction written by women around the world. I'm Vic Hope and I am your host for Season 7 of Bookshelfy, the podcast that asks women with lives as inspiring as any fiction to share the five books by women that have shaped them. Join me and my incredible guests as we talk about the books you'll be adding to your 2024 reading this. Today I am joined by the brilliant Victoria Brew. Victoria is the CEO and co-founder of Her Collective. Her is the global home of circular fashion, a community of first-movers committed to environmental responsibility, setting the tone for the next generation to follow. From Idea and Head to multi-million pound fashion rental business, Victoria has trailblaze the way for young female entrepreneurs to build their businesses.

Her accolades for entrepreneurship include Forbes 30 under 30 and her ranks as one of the world's top 50 startups. She's also been featured in press around the world for her innovative business. Passionate about creating an equilibrium between fashion and fixing fast fashion, Victoria is on a mission to remedy the bad habits of the fashion industry, for a greener future without sacrificing quality and style. I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome, Victoria. Thank you so much. It's a real privilege to be here. I feel like you guys interview the most legit people. Am I legit now? You're legit? Oh, come on. I'm feeling very, very honored to be here. Oh, well, I am a huge fan, as you know, I'm going to come across a bit of a fan girl, but her fashion rental has been a huge part of my life for a while now. I'm always flying the flag for

in advocating for borrowing, not buying. And I saw you at dinner. And I feel like I don't know if this is always the case when someone starts up at a company, but I feel like you're synonymous with that company. Like I whisper to my friend, it's Victoria Brew. Do you feel that? Do you feel like you are the face of your brand? Yeah, absolutely.

You know, going back five years ago when I started the her business, we had no money. And the cheapest way to grow and get the word out about her was for me to talk about it. I remember vividly when we were very, very young startup, I hired a PR firm and they said, okay, tomorrow morning can you go on Sky News? I'd never done a video. I'd never done a podcast. I'd never even talk to camera. And I thought, I'm not going to say no. And that morning, a day after, I went on Sky News. And 10 seconds before I went live, the guy said to me, this goes to 100 million people worldwide. Don't tell her that. Come on. As I went live on air. And I remember thinking after that moment, okay, everyone's seen the way I speak, the way.

I talk on camera, how deep my voice is. I might as well just really go for this because it's a bit late. And I think, you know, I'm hugely proud of the success that her has had. And also lots of women who are now being the face of their brand because there are highs, there are lows, but I'm hugely hugely proud of what we've done so far. And you said to me, we were just messaging before coming on. You said, oh, I'm a bit nervous about talking about books. I can talk about her, you know, till the cows come home and we will.

But why are you nervous about talking about books? because you've got a brilliant list that you brought to us today. So I love nonfiction books. I'm sure we're going to get into it in this podcast, but anything about performance, productivity, that is my bag. I will read those books until the cows come home. I listen to a lot of my books, but I'm just very bad at having the time to sit down with a book.

My mind is just too busy. So it's something I'm really, really trying to get better at because I'm big into being more mindful and living a slightly slower life, having suffered extreme burnout from running a venture-back startup. So this year for me and going forwards, I really want to get back into the actual art of picking up a book and reading. It's one of the most joyful things.

And I haven't had time and now I want to prioritize it a bit more. Well, if you need any recommendations, look no further than this podcast. There's a back catalogue full of brilliant books that other women who are also living these incredibly busy high-alk-day-n lives have turned to often for solace, often for relaxation if that's what they need. But I can imagine being the CEO of a company. It's a round-the-clock job.

So how do you find and how are you trying to take that time to read? So when I was 25 and I started her, I thought, this is a sprint, not a marathon. Let's just go, go, go. Why can't I do things quick enough? I couldn't get things done quick enough. I then went through, we've been through a number of funding rounds. We've raised just under $10 million, about $10 million to date of venture capital funding. And I suffered extreme burnout through that process.

I've really hit the wall of running too hard. And I've learned the hard way that running a startup and a scale up is very much a marathon and not a sprint five years into this journey. So I'm very, very good now. And this comes with building an amazing team. Everyone at her is dynamite. I have incredible employees and advisors around me. But now I'm very boundaryed about when I'm on and when I'm off. So if I'm on holiday for a week, I'm trying to turn my phone on with the occasional check-in.

I'm actually taking the time to read. I'm taking the time to exercise to walk my talk every morning. It's those small things that are really easy to lose from your day to day. And now five years in, they're absolutely non-negotiables for me. They sound small, but it's the first thing that goes when you're under furious pressure. And if you do want to find that escape, what sort of books do you turn to? So I love anything about how you can be better and how you can really manage to have short-term success but long-term goals. So my whole life is built around trying to build a brand for the long term, which I fully believe her is the future of fashion, but also I'm under pressure to deliver every 30 days. So we report to our board every 30 days on how we're doing. So actually

how you, the books that I read, Dory Clark is a great example of one. Anything around strategic thinking is really my bag. She's one of the top 50 thinkers in the world. And I spend a lot of time reading either podcast while listening to podcast or reading books about actually how I can not only be productive now, but think about the long term because it's hard when you're pulled in every which direction, I think, to balance both of those two dynamics. There's something so appropriate, I feel, about us talking about circular fashion, about us talking about borrowing and the stories that these clothes, these pieces have behind them and inside them in their threads because they do.

I borrow all the time I'm wearing a borrowed jacket at the moment. I know. What are the chances? I'm very happy to see that. But, you know, you realise that these pieces have belonged to so many different people. They have stories to tell. And that's what we're going to get into today, your story and the stories that have shaped you. So let's talk about your first book, Shelfy Book, which is beautiful.

It is the tale of Jemima Puddle Duck by Beatrix Potter. one of the best loved installments of Beatrix Potter's classic series, The Tale of Jemima Puddleduck finds the scatty Jemima tricked by a sinister foxy gentleman with designs on her unhatched eggs, full of pastoral, period charm, and adorned with exquisite illustrations, this is one of Potter's most sublime achievements. Was this a childhood favourite of yours? Absolutely. I had two working parents growing up, and I remember bedtime and reading time was a really,

really special time in my day. I remember both my parents who had very big stressful jobs as well, really taking the time to read to me and my sister. I love the watercolors. And I also think I've always loved from an early age, something that actually tells a story and a bit of a tale rather than just always having a happy ending. And I remember reading Beatrix Poss being like, you need to be aware of cunning foxies. This is really, you know, from a very young age. It's quite an interesting tale to be read. And I also love the same. set, I think the Beatrice Botta book sets are absolutely beautiful. For all of my friends who are having daughters, that's my go-to present for them. The watercolor, the illustrations are absolutely

stunning. And it really takes me back and reminds me of those precious 25 minutes I had with both my mum and dad growing up. It's funny with the Beatrix Potter books. I remember they in as well. And I remember the way my mum and dad would read them. It felt like a song. It felt almost melodic the prose and those pictures were so beautiful. I remember had a little squirrel nutkin as well that I used to cuddle. I mean she famously wrote so, so many books. What made this one stand out for you? I was given the Jemima Puddle Duck toy. Yes. And it was my childhood toy. We won't get into it. It's a sensitive one, but I lost it on a holiday and I've never quite recovered. But I remember thinking that this animal was actually in the book and that they were kind of, you know, vice versa.

I remember loving this thing so much. And then it kind of was bought to life through the pages for me. It seemed super, super special. And I think Beatrix Posse was 100% ahead of her time. I remember reading, you know, not at the time, but later that she'd licensed out and actually owned the license to that doll. Yeah. She sold hundreds of millions of copies of those books.

And I think, you know, in the in the 1920s, very unusual for a female author to actually be building a business empire as well. So it reminds me of calm in my childhood. and I was not a very calm child. What were you like as a child? I think a bit chaotic. Apparently I've been told in hindsight that the best entrepreneurs always push the boundaries and I think I was one of those children.

So yeah, I think I never took no for an answer, which was probably quite difficult for my parents. But I think I've always been obsessed about ideas. And from a very young age, always had kind of entrepreneurial side hustles I was trying to get off the ground from age 11 upwards. So I think I was difficult, but I'm still very close to my parents. So I think we've hopefully come through 60. We've got through those teenage years. Like you said, not only did this book sell 250 million copies, but there was that registered Jamama Puddledoc Doll at the Patent Office.

She was an entrepreneurial genius, a pioneer in licensing and merchandising. It's quite interesting that as you got older, you discovered how unusual it was for a woman to make a living as an author. Do you think Beatrice Potter sort of inspired you to think outside of the limitations that society tells us we can have and do as women? I think we're getting better. And I remember even five years ago when I was 25 starting the her business, there were very limited female role models around me who I kind of saw who had done what I had done. And I remember thinking, okay, if I'm going to build her to the point of being the face of the brand, I want this to be public because I want women to know. that they can build their own companies.

Less than 2% of venture capital funding goes to women, so we are still very much in the minority, but VC is not the end and the answer to all women starting companies. They're amazing women, I know, that have self-funded companies. So I think it's just really interesting. I can't imagine what it's like in the 1920s.

At least now we have quotas. We have people trying to do better. I can imagine Beatrix was probably one of a few, trying to really kind of go against that grain. So I think it's a pretty impressive story for those times. From sparking that entrepreneurial dynamism at a young age, how did you harness it? Because I've only just found out that you went to Newcastle Uni, which is my hometown.

I love to hear it. And I can imagine it was just the best place to be a student. How did you hone it? So when I left school, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I did a combined honours for my first undergraduate degree. I then went on to do a masters of science in real estate. But back in my undergrad days, I did a entrepreneurship module and I spent 12 months setting up a business. And it was the first time I felt alive.

I thought this plays to all of my strengths. I love selling. I love negotiating. I love building. I love getting to what they call PMF, which is product market fit. How do you actually get a product that people want to buy? It's a lot harder than people think. And it just really spoke to all of my strengths.

And from that day, I knew I was going to be an entrepreneur. My parents weren't social. So I did a master's in real estate and then trained up in commercial real estate, did that for three, three and a half years, qualified as a charter surveyor, and then handed my notice in the next day to co-found what is now her. And where did the idea of her come from? So I've always been fascinated by the idea of the sharing economy. So I'm a millennial myself.

We rent cars. We rent houses. If you look at the massive rise of platforms like Airbnb, 10 years ago, it was a weird concept, right? Would you rent a house from a stranger? No. And I remember my disgust and dismay and just being so aghast at the prospect of it when someone mentioned. Same with Uber. I remember the first time someone told me about an Uber, I was like, what?

I'm just going to get in. But being able to rent essentially luxury because I can't buy it, changed my life. It has been the biggest shift from ownership to access. We've seen Airbnb. We've seen Uber do it. And I had looked at those trends and thought, okay, nothing exists like this for fashion. If I can take this massive trend and shift that we're seeing in society and apply it to an area that I find really interesting and that is the second most damaging industry to our environment, I think I could be on to the next big thing. And when I started her, I went to lots of senior people with nothing more than idea.

I was 25. I was so energetic. I was so excited about it. And lots of people said to me, okay, Tori, we think this is a. a trend. We think this is something that's hot right now and it's going to die down. And I said, with all due respect, I think this is movement, not a trend. And here we are five years later, fast fashion and the impact of fashion is on the front page of most newspapers. And circular is, without a doubt, the biggest opportunity for retailers and for the fashion industry. So I feel hugely

proud of what we've built at her, but very passionate that our work is only really just starting. Well, as well as being environmentally motivated, I mean, what other opportunity do you get to wear high-end off-the-runway Versace for less than I'd pray to buy something from Zara? Like, it's an amazing thing that you get access to. You feel so special and it saves you money. I know. It seems like such a no-brainer. So many of our amazing customers say, oh, what great idea. so obvious. It's so obvious. But actually the technology behind it that we own all of has taken

over five years to perfect. I'm also really, really passionate about the lending side of our business. So inspiring women to be able to make money from their wardrobes, the smartest people I know have more than one income stream. So allowing women to actually monetize their garments through our platform, our top lender last year made over £60,000 renting out her wardrobe. She put two kids through nursery school. Another lender of ours paid for IVF treatment with the proceeds of renting her wardrobe. We have people doing this as full-time jobs and that is something that I am hugely, hugely proud of and a trend in terms of the female empowerment and allowing women more flexibility and freedom. The side hustle is here to stay. It is. And you know what? Another thing,

you make friends for it. I have got a new friend, shout out, Camille, who I was renting from. It turns out we were renting back and forth over and over again. And she lives around the corner. So we stopped sending it via post and just started meeting up for a coffee. And now we hang out. No, wait, Vic, I need you on my mom saying. Let's chat after this podcast. It's just been the start of something beautiful. Let's talk about your second book, Shelfly book now, which is Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus.

Oh, this is such a thrilling read. It's so much fun. And it really gets you in the fields. Chemist, Elizabeth Zott, is not your average chemist. But it's the early 1960s and her all-male colleagues take a very unsublished. scientific view of equality, except for Calvin Evans. But like science, life is unpredictable, which is why a few years later, Elizabeth Zott finds herself not only a single mother, but the reluctant star of America's most beloved cooking show, Supper at Six. But as it turns out,

Elizabeth Zott isn't just teaching women to cook. She's daring them to change the status quo. This book was a huge hit when it was published a few years ago. How did you come to read it? I was recommended it by a family friend actually and it was one of those books that I didn't put down. It really spoke to me. I thought it was funny, witty, empowering. And also I love a book that challenges societal norms. So anything around resilience and resilient women is really my bag. I thought Elizabeth Sot was really, really well characterised and how she took on such a male dominated industry of chemistry way back when I thought was really, really fascinating. The key takeaways from that book for me was the importance of education. I always think about this phrase of you're only as good as what you know. When I think back to my her journey, I think if I had known all the things I know now five years ago,

I would have run a company very differently. But you're only as good as what you know. Hindsight is such a great thing. And when I think about that lessons in chemistry book, actually how she was able to take cooking and combine it with chemistry in such a smart way, it really, really spoke to me. And it wouldn't be a journey if you'd known all those things. Learning was part of it, making the mistakes were part of it.

What were some of the challenges you felt you had to overcome? I'd say about entrepreneurship, the highs are high and the lows are very, very low. As you can imagine, COVID not a great time to be running a fashion rental business. We went, I remember vividly watching our stripe count, which is where all of our money is kept, going literally to zero overnight as all of our customers obviously cancelled their rentals. Luckily, we had investors that supported us through that time. It's actually where we built what is now our white label business, which powers lots of retailers

like Selfridges and John Lewis and Netta Porte. So it was actually a very productive time for us. The thing I would say about challenges and entrepreneurship is that not once, not through COVID, not through some really, really challenging times, have I ever doubted our vision and our mission for the company. The business has evolved quite rapidly. we now have three businesses under one roof at her. But at no point in my journey so far have I thought, do you know what?

I think that her business won't work and can't work. I am so laser focused on where I want to get the company to and what we're building that I think actually a lot of distraction and noise I'm able to keep out because I'm so laser focused on what I want to do and what I think is best for the business. So I think challenges aside, if you have a vision as clear as mine is, it can be really, really helpful in those moments. And there have been some really, really hard moments in her journey. But the vision has stayed the same. Well, Bonnie Garmes was rejected 98 times before she got published. That is a lot. I actually went to a Q&A and I heard her talk about this. And I was like, 98 rejections.

Then on the 99th or the 100th, you get the yes. I was like, we've all been there. As entrepreneurs, we have all been there. We've all been told a million times no. We've all failed. And I thought that's a kind of author that I want to read. That's it. Does that perseverance and grit inspire you? Is it something you relate to? And you know what? Even the perseverance and grit of Elizabeth Sott, the protagonist, do you see parts of yourself in her? A hundred percent. I think what she's really, really good at is just staying really focused and really true to herself and not allowing this massive distraction outside of that. So I also think as well, it was really clever in the book how she deals with people that doubt her and people that are like very stereotypical as a producer

who's like a very stereotypical male producer and she's witty and she's so smart. She basically outsmarts everyone in the room and coming back to my point on kind of education and knowing your insight, knowing your subject matter inside out. I often think I am the founder of her. If I don't know the question and if I'm asked a really difficult question in the room, I'll take it away and I'll come back or if I don't know the answer. answer, probably no one does. And I think I saw that in Elizabeth where she was kind of an expert in her field. And if Elizabeth doesn't know the answer, probably no one does. I'm going to say that I'm going to use that. Although it is based in the 1960s, a lot of the novels themes about equality in a male dominated workplace, they're not unfamiliar in 2024. How have you found working in business as a young woman? And tell me as well about your early male co-founder. Yeah, I think back back, in the Elizabeth sort days, the misogyny was really, really clear in the book.

I am a female founder. There aren't that many of us. They're growing at a rate of knots. And I'm so, so proud of female entrepreneurship and seeing women building businesses every day here in the UK. When I started the her journey, I was an unproven entity. I was 25. I didn't have a tech background. I definitely didn't have a fashion background.

I had an idea and I had energy and I had a lot of resilience. So I basically persuaded a family friend of mine to help me set up the her business. He was technical. We wrote from line one of code, what is now the her platform? We sat in a room for six, nine months in a basement in Shortwich, trying to work out how we could build something where people would share clothes effectively. Matt is still one of my biggest cheerleaders. He's one of the first people I call today when things are difficult at her.

But I also knew that there was a bit of a game to be played to get venture capital funding and to raise funding as a female founder. So we went through our first round of financing. Matt then set back from the business, which was always the plan. He now lives on the other side of the world. And I always say her wouldn't exist without Matt. Matt gave me the confidence and the energy to be like, Tori, you can run this business. But I think having a male co-founder in those early days definitely helped me.

I remember the day he left to move abroad vividly thinking, I can't do this on my own. And then after a couple of weeks when things normalised, I thought, you know, I can do this on my own. I am so clear on where I want to get to. I'm so clear on what we need to do. And more than anything, this change in fashion needs to happen now. And I'm going to be the person to build this business.

So it's been a long journey, but I feel very supportive. We have great board members, advisors, both male and female. And I've surrounded myself with people that want the best for me and the business. And I can sniff out pretty quickly if someone's going to be helpful. and it has our best interest in heart, or they don't. I was going to ask, actually, as the business grows, and you go from being one woman to having employees, having all these people who need to share your vision,

but work for you in different capacities, how does it feel to be in charge? It's a big shift going from doing all the jobs yourself to then hiring people that are better than you to help you run a company. I have an amazing team at her. from our C-suite down to our graduates. We have this kind of above and beyond mentality

where every single her employee really believes in this vision and knows that building a startup is quite gritty. It's not sexy lunches and content studios. It is packing up rentals. It is dealing with things when they go wrong. There's a lot of very unsexy stuff that goes into building a business. And I think I'm very, very fortunate

that have a team that share that vision. I obviously spend a lot of time rallying the troops when things don't go well and also celebrating our success. We have quite a female, heavy team, but loads of amazing male employees too. And I think for me, fashion rental is great. I am so passionate about it,

but it is so important to have a level of perspective. And I think it's my job as a leader to instill a level of perspective because when things go wrong and they can feel so personal, right? No one likes to fail, especially me and the younger generations. It's not a nice feeling to fail at something.

and my job and what I try and instill in our company, in our team is that failure is fine, failure is good, this is fashion rental. When things go wrong, it is not life and death. And I think that is what I hope, a really important message where people love to come to work. We are here to build a big business, but we have to have a level of perspective that there is a life outside of work too. Speaking of a life outside of work, a life that could have been. Bailey's is proudly supporting the women's prize for fiction by helping showcase incredible writing by remarkable women, celebrating their accomplishments and getting more of their books

into the hands of more people. Bailey's is the perfect adult treat, whether shaken in a cocktail, over ice cream, or paired with your favourite book. Check out baillies.com for our favourite bailey's recipes. Let's move on to your third pick today, which is Rodham by Curtis Sittenfeld. The question is, what if Hillary Rodham had turned down Bill Clinton's proposal of marriage? In Rodham, Curtis Sittenfeld explores how Hillary Clinton's life might have turned out if she'd stayed an independent woman.

Smart, diligent and a bit plain. That's the general consensus. Then Hillary goes to college and her star rises. At Yale Law School, she continues to be a leader and catches the eye of driven, handsome and charismatic Bill Clinton. these are not my words. How might things have turned out for them, for America, for the world itself, if Hillary Rodham had really turned down Bill Clinton? Now, you couldn't put this book down. What was it that made it so readable and so enjoyable?

So I find anything around the Clinton's really fascinating. I think when I read it, it's really hard to remember if you're reading fiction or an autobiography, the first half of the book kind of mimics real life. and the second half is where obviously it is fictional. And I remember when I was reading it thinking, I wonder if Hillary's read this. Imagine having books written about yourself. Do you block out the noise or do you read it because you're interested?

Obviously fascinating what would have happened to Hillary, should she not have married Bill? I think what I find so interesting about that is did she choose to marry Bill because it would have been the closest she could get to power or what would a world outside of this have really, really looked like for her? I think in the book, what came across from me is the criticism that women in the public eye face. We are not judged on our education, on how well we deliver messages. We are judged on personal appearance.

I remember reading it thinking, the world is a vicious place. And what would happen if we built women up and didn't tear them down? And that was a kind of key takeaway from me. I think it all the time whenever any of our UK female politicians are in the press, the way they are treated is unbelievable. And in comparison to how our male politicians who do the same and so much worse, it doesn't bear thinking about. You can't quite get your head around it. And so we don't. We normalise it.

We just put up with it. And I feel for them because how can they do their job? I don't understand the resilience you have to build up in the face of that, not only from the public but from your peers. This book is about the compromises that women have to make in the name of ambition, that resilience that you shouldn't have to have. How do you feel about that? Looking back on your career, do you feel like there's compromises you've had to make or sacrifices you've had to make or ways in which you've had to be strong where you're, If you were a man, you wouldn't have. Absolutely.

When it comes to sacrifice, sacrifice is obviously a relative term, but there have been lots of key moments. I've missed. I've missed weddings. I've missed birthdays. I've missed really important family events because I've been so stressed or working so hard. Would I change what I've been through and the lessons I've learned? No. But when I look back, I think from 25 to 30, where I now am, there's such pivotal times and moments in your career where you're really building something.

and I very much had my head down. I wasn't on holiday. I wasn't going out with friends. I wasn't sat in the pub on a Saturday night. I was sat behind a computer really ridden with anxiety in those early days. There is nothing more terrifying than putting an idea out there to the world. It is fine now. Her has stood on its own two feet.

I'm super proud of where we've got the company too. It's frankly bigger and more established than I thought it would be, given the number of years it's been running. But I will never forget. those early days of self-doubt, just thinking, can I really do this? This is a huge, huge personal commitment. And then on top of that, you're the face of the brand. Yeah. So everyone talks about failure, but actually when it comes pretty close and we have come pretty close to things not working out for us, you really, really have to dig deep in those moments. So I think,

yeah, there have been lots of lessons in resilience and sacrifice and also prioritisation. My life is heavily prioritised, how I do spend my time, especially the little free time. I do have, I'm very, very clear about what is important to me and what is less important to me. So I think there have been a lot of lessons throughout the herd journey so far about that. You did mention before about being the public face of the brand, about being that figurehead. Is it something you worry about? Is it something you get tired of? It depends whether I'm fundraising and I'm kind of underground, keeping my investors happy

or I'm building. My favorite thing to do, I'm an entrepreneur first and foremost, is to build. And I'm super happy to share the journey. I hope if you looked at my social media accounts that I have a fairly balanced view of what it takes around a business. I never pretended this is an easy thing to do and that success comes quickly. I still don't think I'm successful. There is a lot I want to prove and a lot that for me personally I want to achieve. It's a really interesting question, right?

I sometimes think about the quote, the higher you climb, the further you fall. And I definitely feel that, you know, 25-year-old Tori, she was kind of up for anything. she'd say anything. She had quite strong opinions and now I think I'm a bit more measured. Maybe that comes with maturity and age, who knows. But I definitely feel that pressure to quote unquote get things right for sure. But I also think as well, if there are women out there that follow me and think I can do it, Tori did it. That is a net net, really positive thing. And I wish that I'd had more of those people that I followed and I saw publicly five years ago. So for me, to this day, the most important people in my life are.

other female entrepreneurs who are ahead of me in the journey. And when shit really hits the fan, I can pick up the phone and be like, what do you think, Michelle? Like, is this fine or is this not fine? It's supporting one another and having someone to look up to you. So you're obsessed with the Clintons, would read anything about them, listen to any podcast. Are there any other role models, anyone else that you look up to or that you're just obsessed with their story? Well, I remember when we're going to come on to talk to Sherr O'Samburg's book, Lean In, but I remember reading that really when I was thinking about being an entrepreneur. The book was widely criticised for very good reason in terms of what it really takes to be a woman in business.

But I remember thinking, okay, there are women that are doing this. They're just not that many. There need to be more. It is possible. There just need to be more examples of how you do it and more honesty about what it takes to get there and more ways to do it. When I come back to thinking about her and the side hustle, how amazing that a woman on my platform, form that I have helped create and have been the face of can even make 60 pounds, 200 pounds, a thousand pounds, extra income from renting out the wardrobes in the clothes that she already

has in her wardrobe. For me, that is the single most empowering part of this story. So I have a lot of female leaders and entrepreneurs. I look up to Michelle Kennedy being one of them, the CEO and founder of Peanut. If you haven't seen the Peanut app, you need to either download it or check it out. Debbie Wasco is another one we were just talking about before this. Tessa Clark, who runs OLEO, the food sharing app, that raise a 43 million pounds Series A or Series B, I think it was the single largest series B from two female founders. So any woman who has raised venture capital funding is my bag

because it's not an easy job. And just on being in the public eye, you used a word a little earlier, Boundary, which I really like. I think it's really important. What stays private for you and what goes online? So I'm very happy to share anything. about her. I don't really share my personal life. I am criticised from a business point of view

and I'm under furious pressure enough with her and the her business. And I'm very, very happy to share in hindsight those lessons that I have learned. I keep my private life offline because I have a really great life. And as you should, I love to hear it. And actually my happiest times when I'm not on my phone. It's when I'm with the people that I love most in this world and I'm not sat on WhatsApp or Slack or, you know, against a white background on a Zoom call. So that has been an active decision for me. And for me, a very, very clear boundary. I think I know too much about how the internet works to ever feel comfortable sharing that part of my life. But what I am very, very happy to share is how women can build businesses, get started and actually have the guts to give it a go.

Because if the worst thing that happens is that you fail, is that really the worst thing. And that's what I hope I try and instill. Well, on drawing those boundaries and finding that calm when you need it, we have talked about hustle culture. It comes into it so heavily. And it brings us to our fourth book now, which is The Long Game by Dory Clark. Your personal goals need a long-term strategy. We've been talking about marathons versus sprints. Just as CEOs who optimize for quarterly profits often fail to make the strategic investments necessary for long-term growth, The same is true in our own personal and professional lives. We need to start playing the long game.

Dory Clark argues it's about doing small things over time to achieve our goals and being willing to keep at them, even when they seem pointless, boring or hard. It's not an overnight process, but the long-term payoff is immense to finally break out of the frenetic day-to-day routine and transform your life and your career. Why did this book make your list? My key takeaway is that being crazy busy is, It's not a badge of honour. Being constantly busy is not how I want to live my life.

I have done the chaos. I often joke. I thrive in chaos and I do. But actually being able to balance the short term wins and then having the time and the space to keep on track with your long term goals. I've just got into journaling. This was one of my things for the start of this year where I write down and I try and make sure that where I want to be in five years, 10 years time, I don't lose sight of

because it's so easy, especially as an entrepreneur. CEO to get sucked straight back into the stress of building a scale up. And so for me, how you balance that crazy busy, but protecting time for what's important to you in a couple of years and a couple of months time is, is really critical. So I think I've done a lot of thinking. I kind of live my life in five-year chunks. I think, okay, from 25 to 30, this is what I want to achieve. And I feel very fortunate that a lot of those things that I set out to achieve and to prove to myself, I've been able to. I then sat down age 30, not long after my 30th birthday, and I thought, okay, what do the next five years of my life really, really look like? And what I love most about that,

that book by Dori Clark, you should listen to her podcast, by the way, she's done like seven TED Talk. She's mega. Was that taking the time to think strategically is one of the hardest things to do. I remember there was a stat in the book that, you know, 97% of senior leaders said that strategic thinking was the most important thing to be able to prioritize long-term goals, but that 98% of them never had the time to actually think strategically. And it's so true. I often say to Lauren, who's our COO, my best big thinking ideas come when I am not in the office. When I'm out of the chaos and I have time to really, really think, that is when I'm most creative, most productive and where I think we come up with those kind of game-changing ideas.

So I think to be able to balance those two things is really great. Dory Clark also has a website where you can download PDFs or like questions that can prompt those things. Like, you know, what did you do today to hit X long-term goal? And that's where I've kind of tried to incorporate journaling. I'm not very good at kind of free-form journaling. But when there are specific questions to ask, I found that a really useful framework to just have a check-in. And it sounds idealistic. But if you can do it even a couple of times a month, I think that's a great place to start.

Oh, no, I'm a huge fan. For me, it's for my mental health. Just getting everything out of my head when it feels scrambled makes it seem a little less insurmountable. And it reminds me as well of how far I have come, of what I'm proud of. And it makes me look for the little bits of joy in every day, which is what gives me purpose?

This book has so much to take away from it. What would you say stood out to you as the most sort of practical, tangible suggestion that you still put into practice on a daily basis? I'd say to have a check-in every morning. So every morning I try and do three things. So there's a framework of thinking about how you have the three most game-changing things that you do every morning. So I find my morning's most energizing. It's when I have the most focus.

So for me, there is a framework that says, okay, if you get the most three important tasks of your to-do list in that morning that will help you get to a long-term goal, I can then nail all the short-term stuff in the afternoon. So I really prioritise thinking about, okay, where do I want to be in the next couple of years? Where does the business need to be in the next couple of years? And then actually the kind of quick wins, I leave for the afternoon when I'm a bit less focus, the coffee and the caffeine has left my body. So for me to try and prioritize the mornings and get three things off my to-do list that are going to serve a purpose for me and the her business three, five years from now, I have to prioritize that. Otherwise, I would just do 30 to-do lists of small quick things. For anyone listening who's thinking, I don't know what my goal is. I don't know where I want to be.

Do you have any advice? I think you have to work out what is important to you. So I have spent a lot of time looking at people that I admire and how they live their life. So what are they doing? What are their activities? What are they passionate about? What does their kind of personal private life balance look like? And for me, purpose is the most important thing.

Do you wake up every day and think that you are building a better future for yourself or for me, that that is within a company as well? So talking from a professional point of view, I would start with, okay, what do I really care about? What am I passionate about? This doesn't have to be my job, but let's make it into a passion. Let's make it into whether that's a side hustle or just something that I want to do because I care so deeply about it. I have a friend who grows chilies because he's passionate about growing chilies. Oh, I love that. Like for me, it's such a simple example of going back to the basics of where you find purpose, those mini moments of joy.

You know, I'm big into those many moments of joy speaking to the guy who is making my coffee this morning. It makes me feel good that, you know, you can have a quick two-minute chat right rather than living this chaos all the time. So finding purpose professionally for me and then those small moments of joy I've always said are the most critical things to try and get right. Dory Clark's The Long Game is this sort of hybrid between business book and self-development book. You said at the very beginning that you gravitate towards the books that make you feel better, live better, help you. And you mentioned this fifth and final book in that it's Lean In by Cheryl Sandberg. Of 197 heads of state, only 22 are women. women hold just 20% of seats in parliaments globally.

And in the world of big business, a meagre 18 of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women. In Leanin, Cheryl Sandberg, Facebook, COO and one of Fortune magazine's most powerful women in business draws on her own experience of working in some of the world's most successful businesses and looks at what women can do to help themselves and make the small changes in their life that can affect change on a more universal scale. Now this book was released over 10 years ago now and you touched it before, it is potentially problematic in some ways. What do you think has changed since it's released 10 years ago? So the book has, without a doubt, received a lot of criticism mainly for the privilege that Cheryl had

and the responsibility of success on individual women rather than the structures around them. We're now 10 years on and that criticism is 100% valid. For me, we can't talk about advancing women in the workplace unless we're talking about all women. And I think that's the shift. There are lots of very valuable quotes and from Cheryl's experience that I definitely resonated with. But I totally agree. And I think what we've learned 10 years on is that leaning in doesn't work. What we need is to change the entire system and the structure of how this system operates.

And that's what I find as a first-time founder, the most interesting. What are those structures? and can you play a part in changing them? So I think my key takeaways have been that book. It had its moment in time. Cheryl is obviously hugely impressive as an individual, but actually we need to think about how all women in the workplace operate. And remember there's a quote in that book that I think about a lot,

which was what would I do if I wasn't afraid or a version of that? And I think about this a lot. What would all women do if they weren't afraid? They weren't afraid to fail. They weren't afraid of council culture. they weren't afraid of X, Y, Z, because we'd all live our lives a bit differently. So I think that kind of intersection and questions and brainstorming around failure and what life would look like without it is something I think a lot about.

You said that leaning in doesn't work. It's something you've learned. What exactly do you mean by that? So let's take women in business as an example. Less than 2% of venture capital funding goes to women. So I'm in that very measly 2% of women. that have raised big rounds of capital. This is a huge problem.

How do you ever have more women running businesses and scaling businesses and having a chance of being the next X if they're not being funded? This is a two-sided problem. So you can have amazing women building businesses. But if you don't have women on the other side of the table backing them with the financial ability and power, so having more women in VC and in venture capital,

then it's a kind of problem that's never really going to, be solved. So I'm very, very interested in not only how we can we advance women in the workplace, you know, in its totality. And we think about this a lot at her, right? We have to write policies about maternity leave and how, you know, what flexible working looks like. And that's when you start a business. You don't think about those things. You don't think that one day I'm going to have a HR team that need to build a policy on, you know, climbing a ladder or what what Matt leaves looks like. So I am learning all the time and gaining as much information as I can about how I think I can make my tiny difference in this world. When we talk about the structures, from my experience,

this is how can we get more funding to female founders? How can we get more women in VC? And how can we get more women building businesses? Because I don't think it's the single unlock. It's definitely not the single solution to solving this problem. But I think the world would look much better if we had more women running companies. And countries. And countries. And companies and countries. I read that you're also a fan of Helena Morrissey's A Good Time to Be a Girl.

That book is about how you shouldn't lean in, how you should try to change the system. I feel like you're doing both. How important is it for you to make positive changes for women specifically in tech and fashion? Absolutely huge. One of my side passions is Angel investing. So we're not talking big quantities of money, unfortunately, I don't have them yet. But how I can put my pound to support women-led businesses. So I think we all have choices to make.

When you're buying makeup, are you buying from a female-owned brand? Are you buying from a huge conglomerate that is sold out in boots? When you're buying a new handbag, are you supporting an independent designer or a massive shop? So I think there are lots of choices that we make on a day-to-day that we can do to better support. women in business. And I think I try my heart. I do really challenge. I think I'm that annoying person in the room that really challenges decisions that are being made and have very strong reviews about women running businesses and how we can help get them there. So I think we've come a long way in the 10 years since Linen was built. I remember reading a fact that made my heart sink

that there were more men named John in the Fortune 500 companies than there were female CEOs. That only just changed. Right now there's 10% of 14500 companies that are now right, well, 8.2% I think is the actual stat. We've come some way, but there is a long way to go. Well, looking forward, what are your dreams for the future of her? My vision is very, very much to make fashion circular one rental at a time. So actually how you can take fashion from a linear, you know, you buy it, you wear it, you dispose of it, model to something that is fully circular where everyone listening to this podcast thinks about reselling and rental and repairs as part of their everyday behaviour is what I am really, really passionate about. I would love to do more

mentalship and angel investing. I wish I have more time for mentorship. I feel like every hour in my day is optimized and I need to find a way to scale that out and share all of my learnings because I'm just learning so much and I want to be able to share that in a way that I can. And also to have some balance. You know, I'm 30 years old. I want to be running businesses for the rest of my life. I don't want to get to an age where I start hating it because I've become so exhausted that I think is this worth it. So having some balance and having a joyful life, both professionally and personally, is my personal goal.

I think while we're looking forward and while we're dreaming of that balance in life, what do you hope to read? Do you hope to incorporate a little more fiction into the escape each day? I do. I want to do fictional escapes on a holiday. I'd like to go on holiday more, to be quite honest. I feel like I've been chained to my desk. And then one of my very good friends, Charmedine Reed, has just written a book called New Methods.

If you know Charmadeemadine Reed, she is a force to be reckoned with. I've had a sneak preview of this book. And when I'm into a book, I write all over it. I scribble notes. I scribble ideas. And if there is one book, every person listening. to this podcast should read that I think will be a game change by the new methods from Sharmadine Reed. An extra honourable mention to add to our reading list there. I like that. More joy,

more books. That sounds like a dream. My final question to you, Victoria, is if you had to choose just one book from your list as a favourite, and it's a diverse list, which would it be and why? Lessons and chemistry. We all need more Elizabeth Sots in this world. More joy, more books, more Elizabeth Sot on that note. More chemistry and more cooking. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure, Vic. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm Vic Hope and you've been listening to the Women's Prize for Fiction podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Bayleys and produced by Birdline Media. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you next time.