Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast - S8 Ep21: Bookshelfie: Sian Eleri

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Radio 1 DJ Sian Eleri discusses her love for Welsh language writing, the power of a creative vocabulary and why home is such a complicated subject.  Sian is one of the biggest music tastemakers at BBC Radio 1 and shares her love for music across three shows at the station – Future Artists, Power Down Playlist and Chillest Show – as well as hosting a weekly show for Selector Radio, a global station celebrating British music. Named Music Week’s Rising Star in 2021, Sian has judged some of the UK’s biggest music prizes, including the AIM Independent Music Awards, the Youth Music Awards, the Welsh Music Prize, the BRITs and the prestigious Mercury Music Prize, which she presented to this year’s winner Sam Fender. She is also the host of The Voice Wales in her native Welsh language, which is returning soon for season two.  Sian previously presented the BBC Three series Paranormal, Rolling Stone UK’s Future of Music, and is currently filming a documentary series about the Welsh artist, Gwen John, for BBC Cymru.  Sian’s book choices are: ** Llyfr Glas Nebo by Manon Steffan Ros ** Notes On An Execution by Danya Kukafka ** I Who Have Never Known Men by Jacqueline Harpman ** Migrations by Charlotte McConaghy ** Arrangements in Blue by Amy Key Vick Hope, multi-award winning TV and BBC Radio 1 presenter, author and journalist, is the host of season eight of the Women’s Prize’s BookshelfiePodcast. Every week, Vick will be joined by another inspirational woman to discuss the work of incredible female authors. The Women’s Prize for Fiction is the biggest celebration of women's creativity in the world and has been running for over 30 years.  Don’t want to miss the rest of season eight? Listen and subscribe now! You can buy all books mentioned from our dedicated shelf on Bookshop.org - every purchase supports the work of the Women's Prize Trust and independent bookshops.  This podcast is sponsored by Baileys and produced by Bird Lime Media.

Something I loved doing before I ever got into broadcasting was I was a lifeguard back in the day. You were not. I was. Oh my gosh. So basically a professional people watcher. Amazing. Obviously to make sure that everyone's safe, do I mean? I'm doing for the right reasons.

This is the Women's Prize for Fiction bookshelfy podcast supported by Bayleys. Join us in celebrating women's writing from around the world in the 30th anniversary year of the Women's Prize for Fiction. sharing our creativity, our voices and our perspectives. I'm Vic Hope and I am your host for Season 8 of Bookshelfy, the podcast that asks inspiring and brilliant women to share the five books by women that have shaped them and their lives. Join me and my incredible guests as we talk about the books you should be adding to your reading list.

Today I'm joined by my lovely friend, Shana Larry. Hi, Vic. Hello. Shana is one of the biggest music tastemakers at Radio One. She shares her love of music across three shows at the station at Future Artists, Power Down Playlist and Chillist Show, as well as hosting a weekly show for Selector Radio, a global station celebrating British music music. Named Music Week's rising star in 2021, Sean has judged some of music's biggest prizes, including the AIM independent music awards, the Youth Music Awards, the Welsh Music Prize, the Brits, and the prestigious Mercury Music Prize, which she presented to this year's winner Sam Fender just a couple of weeks ago, in my hometown in Newcastle. Shamm previously presented

the BBC 3 series Paranormal Rolling Stone UK's Future of Music and is currently filming a documentary series about the Welsh artist Gwen John for BBC Cymry. She's also the host of the Voice Wales in her native Welsh language which is returning soon for season two.

And now we get to talk about books. Yay! I don't think we've ever done that before. No, we've never have. We've talked about many other things. Many other things. One of my favourite things we've ever spoken about was at the Brits this was what like three years ago now Vic yeah I remember we were sitting next to each other

right at the front dancing to Lizzo we really well god it was Lizzo that year we had great seats best seats in the house but I remember I was talking about pottery at the time because it was like my that was like my hyperfixation at the time I still love it are you still potting oh I wish it's the time yeah

time but I'm going to try and carve some out of 2026 that's my kind of goal going ahead well speaking of carving time out for you and the things that you love to do because music is it's your job but it's also the best thing in the world where does reading sit amongst that

is it the same sort of escape that you get from music definitely for me reading and music offer different levels of escapism right and different levels of feeling seen I think the thing I love about reading is exactly the parallel with music and I don't know if you feel this way but when you do something so often

and when it becomes your job I dare say it too loudly but there's this idea of becoming a bit of a chore so sometimes music listening especially on a Friday when all these albums drop at the same time it's like I can't be bothered today it's annoying they all come out at the same time I mean I get it I get it but

it can make it feel like an inundation and you don't necessarily take the time to just enjoy it because it's a pleasure definitely and I think it was back in 2024 I made it a new year's resolution to read more because it's something I love doing so much growing up and I realized oh my god I've been re-reading the same beginning of a book on holiday for the last 10 years so I said to myself new as resolution one book a month

just 12 a year I felt it was manageable to juggle in between everything else a good goal yeah and initially when I tell my friends who are big readers I was 12 and they were like okay I'm doing 50 I'm like no there's no judgment in this community that is not what we're about Franks, Vic. And I did it. And I was so proud of myself. Admittedly, it was a bit stressful near the end of the year

because I had like four books to be in December. But I did it. And I'm so pleased I did because it's completely opened up my world and it's helped with my job where it's even little things like vocab. I've got a notes up on my phone at any one time for a radio show

where if I'm reading a book and there's a lovely word or a lovely phrase in there. I'm like, aha, that conjures such an image. in my mind, I can do that on the radio too. You know, I can paint a picture with words using my voice. And so I'll put in that little phrase into my notes and think, right, okay, how do I dig back into that and use that on the radio show?

And it's just, I think it's made me a better presenter by reading more. You do have a beautiful vocabulary the way that you broadcast. Oh, thanks. It's, I mean, it's very soothing. And you describe things so perfectly. And that obviously will come from just exploring the school. scope of language, the way that it can evoke the feelings, the thoughts, the landscapes, that, you know, also is the case with books.

And you said that you feel seen by books and by music in the same way. So what kind of books do you gravitate towards? Is this fiction mainly? Mainly fiction, yeah. I'm not a big biography person. I don't think I'm necessarily drawn to that as much. I don't know if I, whether I just like escaping into that fantasy. I know growing up, I was a huge fiend for.

I don't know, your hunger games is and you get twilight because I was like I was like, oh my God, I tell you what, there's a couple of dystopian novels on here. You're surprised. I was like, okay, Sean. But I love that. I love the mystery and the world building behind it

and the fact that the author is able to take us there. I think it's such an exciting and amazing skill that they can do to make something feel real. And so if I can ever use that in radio shows, where, let me try and find an example actually, because I used one not too long ago from a book, and I can't remember for the life anymore what it's called now. Orbital, was it, no.

Oh, Orbital, yeah, Samantha. Yeah, Harvey, yeah. Read that, oh my God, that is an absolute gold mine. It's so, it's so potent the language in that because it's so short, isn't it? And succinct and almost elusive, but she gets something across that does feel cosmic, Like constantly, every single word is loaded.

The word economy of it is brilliant. Which is what you want on the radio, because we were always told to get to the main bit fast. Yeah. Find the funny faster. Find the funny, I'm just suddenly always funny. I feel like there's a lot of pressure when he says,

find the funny fast. I'm like, I'm not always going to be funny. Yeah, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm not a comedian. We're trying out. The word economy is important, and she does that so well in orbital. And using those words sparingly and doing it with such skill, let me find that, there we go, words, It's literally what it's called.

Excellent. And there's a bunch in here that I'm like, I'm going to challenge myself to throw one of these in there during a link. This is great. For those of you listening, Shanne's holding up her phone and I've got the notes open and it is.

It's a note that's just called words and it's full. It's like a whole list. So one of them was mist curling around the back. Great. So I used that recently. On the radio.

On the radio to describe more of kind of like a moody electronic song where you're in the forest. Yeah. And you can almost feel the cold kind of weaving between your legs. It's little things. like that where if I'm able to paint a picture

with the way I'm speaking, that's what reading gives me as well. It's perfect. Cool, isn't it? Yeah, and I can actually hear the kind of song that would be now. It's very James Blakey. So James Blake. Yes. Well, let's talk about the books that you delve

into and you get those little nuggets that magic from. Your first book-shelfy book is translated into English as the Blue Book of Nebo, but in Welsh, it would be Ljvr Glass Netbo. Leverglast netbo. Nailed it.

Hey, by Mann and Stefan Ross. I was really, I was practicing so much this morning and it turns out I was doing it all wrong. This is a prize-winning Welsh post-apocalyptic novel that chronicles the story of a mother and her children surviving the end in rural Northwest Wales. With no electricity or modern technology, they're forced to abandon their old lives and learn to live off the land.

It's told through a dual narrative in a notebook or the blue, book of the title that mother and son use as a shared diary the novel explores the human capacity to adapt and find new strengths when faced with extreme circumstances can you remember when you first read this book roughly what age you'd have been I was around 19 so I did all of my GCSEs through the medium of Welsh because it's my first language and I remember at the time feeling like Welsh literature was not stiff necessarily but everything was very academic leaning and for whatever reason I painted every Welsh language book with the same brush which is so stupid in hindsight now as an adult looking back because I'm like well if I were to think that

every English language book was like Shakespearean in the way that it was written then I would be disinterested in reading personally this is just what you were learning at school yeah you were studying yeah and I was like I'm so ignorant to think that all Welsh language books are like this and so I I remember a friend of mine at the time telling me about Manuel Stefan Ross, and I think she just won a literary prize at the time for this one singular book. And I thought, okay, fine, I'll give it a goal. And it blew me out the water in the way that it's written. So there is an English translation that everyone can read, and I would highly encourage anyone to do so. But I think what was magic about this book in particular is it completely changed my perspective on what Welsh writing was like.

And it felt like the way that it was written was probably the most good. colloquial I've ever seen until this day from a writer in Welsh, there's so many different shades to the Welsh language, you know, from obviously dialect like you'd have anywhere in the world. But even the difference between North and South Welsh is extremely different in the words that we use and the phrases that we use. I think like a great example, just in terms of picking up sound, is if I were to ask someone if they wanted a cup of tea upstairs, in my kind of North Whalean, Kenarvon, Welsh, I would say, Tishapanad van a Grisha.

Whereas in South Whelian, you'd probably say, you'd probably say, you might disheclad land star. That's very different. Completely different, yeah. Completely different. So I think having read so many more South Whalian-leaning literature growing up, I just felt like, oh, this isn't written for me. It's not written for people that grew up where we did.

And so for Manon, to completely blow any stereotype I had out the water, was so important and making me feel actually connected to language and I think the significance of this book when it comes to language

is so crucial because it's about survival it's a post-apocalyptic world we don't know what happened it's a mother and son that have found themselves in this situation and yet

so much of it is about the resilience and making a log of things, writing things down that's what Livd Glasnebaud the little blue book is all about

it's their record of their life It's capturing things like the very mundane, you know, like pottering around the garden and looking for supplies. You know, it's the kind of the everydayness of it, which I love that she captures so well in every book that I've read of hers. But through to the perseverance of language and having a log of it like this and showing how it's incorporated in everyone's daily lives. It's so important. It's such an important book. there's something as well about the Welsh language particularly in the way that Manon Stefan Ross writes

it's such a musical rhythm to the prose do you think there's something inherently musical about the Welsh language I mean I know that you guys turn out some incredible musicians right and you know you work on the voice the singers that have come from Wales how does it lend itself so well to storytelling God I don't know

the age old question because any time someone says oh I love the Welsh accent because it's so sing-songy you know there's that I love that that's the highest compliments in the world because I'm like oh great

hopefully we're nice to listen to I can have some out language what is this I don't know I don't know but I think I wonder whether so much of it is down to just this Celtic

intuition I suppose to to want to tell stories you know something amazing in Welsh literature is the Mabinoggi. So they're kind of like old wives tales that were taught in school

about, I don't know, they're semi-fictional stories. So there's giants in there, there's dragons in there, there's witches, there's magic, there's wizards. It's kind of like a bit King Arthurie in the way that they're written.

But it's almost, they're told, these fables are almost told as if they are reality. And so there's something within you that feels very connected to the land and the history of where everything's come from. So where the language is just woven into that, it's really cool. You work on The Voice in Welsh. It's the Welsh language version of the show.

It's returning soon for a second season. How important is it that there are opportunities like this for Welsh language singers, musicians? It's huge to have a global platform like The Voice. it's a brand recognised all around the world and it's done in languages all around the world and so for Wales to have a piece of that pie part of me is like about time we have got great singers here

and singing and performing is a massive part of Welsh language culture there's a thing called the Estetavod which is a Welsh celebration and festival that happens every single year up and down the country and it's kind of like a gimmie that you have to participate

if you're a Welsh language person growing up. So whether it's the quiet competition that you apply through school or if it's the painting competition. So for Echais, the voice to exist in Wales now, it's so cool because I think it also shows that Welsh could be accessible to anyone.

Lots of the people who have applied and of doing competed in last year's show, for example. Lots of them aren't native Welsh speakers, but they're learning or they can perform songs that they know and love so like a chapel Roans Good Luck Babe was sang

Pop Look babe you know that was the thing So they'll translate it Yeah so I think it's accessible Yeah and that's the main thing for me Is that I hate this kind of idea of elitism around the language Because we're so scared about losing it

It's like no we need to make sure that we use it No matter what it sounds like You know from like a linguistic perspective So long as everyone understands each other that's how language continues and thrives. I always think the more languages the better. I think it's such a fan of languages. I studied at university, French, Spanish and Portuguese

and just love getting my lips around a new language. There's no better feeling. And so if we can spread as far and wide, then yeah, let's do it. Which language do you enjoy learning most? Spanish. Yeah. Because I like going to Spanish speaking places. Yeah.

It's just that. It's respect, actually. It's being able to speak to people. and kind of immerse yourself in someone else's culture on their level. Yes. And it feels amazing. Doesn't it?

Yeah. Even if I'm at a restaurant or something, I was in Paris a couple weeks ago for work, which is so cool even coming out of my mouth. But I was there for work. I'm thinking, right, here we go. I'm going to go for it during that I was like, I'm going to give it my all.

And even if it's met with a bit of like a, sorry, one more time. No, but it's okay. You tried. And hey, you were in Newcastle the other day. I was. There was another language altogether. I've had so many, like, friends come up to visit me and be like, I don't understand what anyone's saying, and it's the best.

Let's talk about your second book, Shelfi Book now, which is Notes on an Execution by Dania Kukka. Notes on an execution follows a haunting dual timeline, counting down the final 12 hours of serial killer Ansel Packer's life, while also exploring his past through the eyes of three women. In contrast to Ansel's negative influence, the novel emphasizes the complex and endurance. relationships between these women, turning the prominent serial killer narrative on its head.

What made you select this book today? Oh, this book is an absolute dream and not in a twisted, weird way, because it's obviously about a horrendous serial killer. But it's giving us the perspective of women who have encountered this man and have survived through him and this idea of how their interactions with this one person can have ripples throughout the entire community. It doesn't just affect the victims, but the victims' families of course, all the way through to

the police service who grew up around him. There's a log about the mother, for example. It's just an amazing, amazing book on women's voices and I had to bring it specifically for this podcast because it just felt so right and it's so masterfully done.

It's really emotionally complex. I think you first land into the book and you're hearing the story from Ansel the serial killer's perspective and there's a strange charm about him I think if we ever were to encounter someone that kind of horrible

or someone who was that intrinsically linked with crime and the violent past we'd like to think oh yeah I could spot him a mile off yeah of course they are of course they're horrible and it's like well actually it's not the reality most of the time and the more you learn about

their behaviour and their experience around this person slowly but surely that the feelings you have towards different characters in this book mold and shape so amazingly it's such a slow burn of a book I wish I could read it from beginning to end as if I'd never read it before because it's one of those books that you never wants to end I cried at the end of such I love a book that makes me sad so anything that leaves me in bits at the end I adore like how did you manage to grab me by the screen off of the neck emotionally and pull me through that it oh no I feel you I feel exactly the same and that complexity that moral compass this book is a book that explores morality justice empathy from multiple perspectives as well because these are not a science it feels like an antidote our obsession with true crime in a way as someone who's used to interviewing people and trying to get to understand them get the best out of them finding their humans side. Did this novel make you think differently about the stories we tell and who gets to tell them?

What unbelievably amazing question. Like, whoa, I'm mind-thorn. Can you give it to me one more time? Does it make you feel differently about the stories that we tell? Who gets to tell them? Who owns a story? Oh my God. Definitely. And it's now all kind of dawning on me. Because I read this book relatively recently. It was, when did I finish it? I'm finished it about two months ago now. Okay, super recently. So yeah, really fresh. And so I'm still kind of sitting with the book as well.

And do you know what? I think it removes you from being the first person or the main character in my own life, for example. So if I'm really in my head about something with work, if I'm really stressed, this idea that, well, does someone else kind of, I'm, not the main character in someone else's life, you know, but it's really interesting seeing how people can interact with one another in such interesting and intricate ways and the

relationships with another are completely different and they change over time. I think that book reflects that so amazingly. And it's the kind of a book that creeps up on you as well. I think it shows different people's psyches. You know, Ansel initially seems really calm and he feels like he doesn't deserve to be on death row and that there's a chance for escaping. and that he can manipulate someone into helping him get out of this situation like he always did master manipulator you know and I think it's really interesting also reading the perspective of this person about women because there's a clear distaste and disrespect for women woven throughout the entire book you can

you can read it from start to finish and he's almost in denial about this but for me personally there's so much obsession a lot of the time with what makes a serial killer you know there's so many documentaries out there like ooh what makes a person like that tick you know there's almost like this glamorization yeah celebrity give them a lot of credit actually yeah and it's like well hang on what about all this of these other people yeah that this individual's actions has affected not just in the moment but spreading far and wide maybe to the point where that individual doesn't even

know also doesn't care about the impact that they've had on the other person And that ingrained disrespect for women is not just that one person in isolation. We live in a society where that is really facilitated. And so someone like that can thrive. Yeah. It's interesting what you say about taking yourself out of the picture. It's something I think is so important as a broadcaster. Like, it's not about us.

If you're interviewing someone, it's about them. And one of my favorite words, it's from the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows. It's Sonder. And it's the realization that every passerby is living. a life as complex and as vivid as your own. Yes. And so I think that something that's reflected in this novel is that it's all going on for everyone.

And it's something like, you're so right. You have to remind yourself of every moment of every day. You're not the main character. No, you're not. Something I loved doing before I ever got into broadcasting was I was a lifeguard back in the day. You were not. I was.

Oh, my gosh. So basically a professional people watcher. Amazing. Obviously, to make sure that everyone's safe. I don't know the right reasons but it's I love the idea of sitting on those really high chairs looking down on everyone yeah everyone's safe

okay cool and then watching I don't know like two older women who'd like gone swimming together thinking hmm how they how's that day going so far how long have they known each other what's the latest gossip I can almost like professionally eavesdrop on these people's conversations

whereas there might be a father and daughter and he's taking her for a swim and things are that where you can see the confidence blooming in the moment and she's going to school later, little things at that where it was amazing to be able to observe people almost in their, like, own little bubbles and watch how life goes by in that way.

Everyone's got a story. Everyone's got a story. She's of wire, ladies and gentlemen. But I also love that every single book will bring us back very subtly to the Mercury Prize in Sam Fendon, people watching. There we go. Bailey's is proudly supporting the Women's Prize for Fiction by helping showcase incredible writing by remarkable women,

celebrating their accomplishments and getting more of their books into the hands of more people. Bailey's is the perfect adult treat, whether shaken in a cocktail, over ice cream, or paired with your favourite book. Check out baillies.com for our favourite bailey's recipes. We move on now to your third bookshelfy book, which is I Who Have Never Nevee. known men by Jacqueline Hartman, translated by Ross Schwartz. I Have Never Known Men was originally written in French, published in 1995, with the English translation from Ross Schwartz published in the UK in 1997 as Mistress of Silence, before then adopting the more popular US title, I Who Have Never Known Men. A profound and thrilling dystopian novel about one girl and 39

women imprisoned in an underground cage guarded by silent men. It explores sisterhood, and survival and a contemporary commentary on gender and identity. You consider this book a work of genius. Yes. Tell us about it why you chose it. This is the one book that I have not stopped Googling since finishing it because it is absolutely amazing. I also spoke on Radio 3 about this book on a good read

because they asked me, okay, what's the one book that you'd recommend in terms of the one thing that you think stands out? above all the rest. This is the one book that's lingered with me since I read it about three years ago. It is an unbelievable.

Unbelievable. I think it's I don't even know where to start because it covers so many different topics from obviously my love of kind of fantasy growing up and the mystery

and this idea of having an unnamed narrator and a relatively unreliable one which I also really like when it comes to books like that. But you're constantly on this journey trying to figure out, right, how on earth did we get here?

Why are we here? Why us? Because this idea that 39 women are all captive, they have no idea how they got there, why they're there, and suddenly an alarm goes off. I don't think this is a spoiler necessarily, but an alarm goes off, the guards vanish, and they escape,

and then they're trying to figure out what is left of the world above ground. And it is such an amazing book on the constant search for me, in life, this trying to make tangible meaning, how to find purpose in our own existence. I've had almost existential crises reading this book every time because I'm thinking, okay, well, clearly intimacy is a really important thing and emotional intimacy in particular with this book. You see how the narrator is trying to figure out what's happening in the world,

what the world looked like before in and amongst kind of talking to these other women and they have relationships with each other and relying on each other so much and even craving things like physical intimacy is it this thing about connection that makes us human? Is it helping others that makes us human? Like there's so much about what is at the core of humanity when it comes to this book.

That's why I think it's genius because it's made me completely rethink about what gives me meaning in my life. You said times that you're, read it so you've read it more than once yeah I have to oh my gosh it's great I think it'll have to be a book I read every year right so how many times have you returned to it so far I read it three years ago so I've done it twice so I'm due another okay no but it's it is a book that's had this renaissance actually very very recently in the last year or so thanks to book talk

and being recommended as well on Dua Leeper's podcast on Service 95 it's sold 45000 copies last year 11 times more than the previous year so every time you read it it's also selling more it just grows what do you think it is about this novel that made it such a hit with gen z readers i don't know because it was also a recommendation i got from ticot i honestly really don't know i think there's something stunning about the cover i've got it somewhere here i think there's something really curious about the way that that it looks i think it kind of looks like a classic initially yeah but also this idea of like an isolated woman and you don't really know anything about her and maybe it is down to the dystopian element of it that really

appeals to younger readers because it is so otherworldly and it's so post-apocalyptic yeah i think there's definitely an appeal there but i think it's just the writing speaks for itself though yeah there's i think the second you dive in you're already in the narrator's world you're trying to figure it out just as much as she is and you're going along with the journey of her self-discovery and who she is. And I think at a time where we're trying to figure out who we are as teenagers, I think that says a lot about people who

feel like they need this book. And you said there that it looks like a classic. It is, it has this sort of timeless quality. It's stripped of any noise. It's silent, stripped of names. In some

ways, do you think that helps give it a universality and a timelessness? Definitely. Definitely, because even things like technology aren't really integrated into it. So it's almost this, you're ripping yourself out of our current reality and you're being plonked into this other one. And you have no idea how you got there just as much as the narrator doesn't know how she's there. So there's a timelessness, I think, to this book.

It's Evergreen. It's a dystopian novel. And on to another dystopian novel. It was your second. Surprise. which is your fourth book today and it's Migrations by Charlotte McConaughey. Sean's just clasped her hand to her heart. She clutched her pearls.

Franny Stone travels to Greenland to follow the last Arctic turns on their final migration to Antarctica. As she joins the crew of a fishing boat and journey south, her troubled past, including a passionate love affair and a devastating crime begins to unspull. A hybrid of nature writing and dystopian fiction, the story combines Franny's epic journey and an intimate look at her dark secrets as she seeks redemption. So this is again another sort of more recent read for you. What makes it so personal to you in your life right now? I think it says a lot about the current existence of the climate crisis, if I'm honest, because we're tracking Franny's journey as she tries to track the final migration of the architect

turns from Greenland to Antarctica and unfortunately is probably quite a realistic worry that is closer to us than we think and it's an amazing reflection I think of how a huge problem that faces all of us can be individualised to this one woman's experience and how she feels so connected to nature and how she feels like an intense need to protect it and to to feel comfort from these animals, you know, where the world is changing around them and there's nothing that they can do about it. And often we feel really helpless. There's times where I feel really helpless about the climate crisis when I'm like,

what on us can I do, you know, to help? I'm so small. Yeah, I'm so, yeah, little old me, you know, like, what can I? Yeah, I shop secondhand where I can. And, you know, I'm trying to reduce how much plastic I use and little things like that where sometimes it feels like an endless, scary beast, the climate crisis. And so I think this is a lovely book in that you feel the level of empathy that she has for nature and the helplessness that she feels. And that's actually quite a normal thing.

How did you feel when you finished it? Did you feel hopeful? Did you feel galvanized? I felt relatively hopeful because I think there's an idea that she feels so connected to the land and the nature around it that nature will hopefully always find a way. but I read this entire book in one sitting ironically on one aeroplane if it's so often the case isn't it

and you have that time to just plug in I know and I was also like oh no I'm on a plane I'm reading this thing but I was actually flying over Greenland at the time no you weren't so I was looking at the window every now and again being like oh my goodness me so it's so serendipitous yeah so I felt so conflicted at the time

because I'm like oh my god this is this is a book about being green. It's the reminder you needed. Yes, it was. And I was like, wow, I feel really guilty, but also I'm in awe because I literally got a snapshot now of the world below me and how precious the world is. Do you often feel reflective on planes anyway?

Of course, I think something about the altitude makes you very emotional anyway. There's been times I've been told to stop crying so loudly when I've been reading. I'm wailing. Yeah, I was saying like, at the end of this book, I can barely breathe. and the man next to me was like

you're good oh I'm fine it's a really good book really good book so yeah but I love this book and I think she as a character

is really interesting because she's not that likable and I think that's really refreshing a lot of the time where she might make decisions that I wouldn't necessarily make or I'd find decisions that she makes sometimes a little bit annoying

but it's about understanding what a person like that would go through and what would lead them to go on this enormous voyage on the other side of the world and what took them there? And I think that's why I really like the snapshots of the past.

They're almost like flashbacks, aren't they, to her life when she was meeting her husband, to her having a mysterious stint in prison. You know, she's a very mysterious person. She clearly lives life in the extremes because she's happy to put herself in such an extreme situation, like travelling from top of the earth all the way down to the bottom on a little rickety boat

with some proper misfits on board. So it's such an adventure. It's an odyssey. I love this book. I like that. I can't wait to read it again. Calling it an odyssey, yes. And this is the thing about an unreliable,

unlikable narrator who is complicated. And, you know, a lot of your choices actually that you brought today, they've got really interesting forms of narration. Because that's what we are like. That's how you feel seen, that's how you put yourself in those shoes. It's also, it's a book about movement. It's about loss and belonging deeply human themes that we can all relate to. Did it make you think about what home means to you?

Yes. And I think maybe that's why there were moments where I didn't relate to this character. Because there's a lot of talk in the book about how she doesn't want to feel attached to one place in particular. She always wants to leave. She always is searching for the next thing. It's almost like she's on her very own migration, like these turns. And she doesn't like this idea of being bound and rooted. And I find that fascinating.

Because I've definitely had moments in my life where I felt that way, where whales and everything it encapsulates will always be a part of me. It's a huge part of how I also reflect myself in the world. You know, my Welshness. I wear it like a badge of honour. anytime someone's like oh where are you from I'm like I'm obviously from Wales

no one's asking you where you're from should all the time I get I get Jordy I get scouse I get Polish I get all sorts and I'm like come on guys but so to me my Welshness is such an enormous part of how I lead my life and how I see the world and how I navigate through it

but I remember when I was like 17 I had this I suppose pull to leave and part of me I know this sounds it might sound silly but I didn't feel Welsh enough to stay in Wales and I couldn't

I couldn't even tell you why I think it's almost like a yearning to to find others and there's no this at all towards my upbringing and my home friends

are the best people in the world and my family are incredible they're still there as well but I think it's there was something about movement and change that was really appealing.

So to me, it was never, I never crossed my mind that I would actually stay in Wales once I turned 18. It was like, right, okay, we fly, we find somewhere else now, we do we find home elsewhere. So home is a really interesting topic

because I even remember moving to Leeds where I went to university and one of the first things I did was to try and find Welsh people. And isn't that ironic? You find a tribe, yeah. Isn't that ironic? I was like, oh, I want to leave Wales

and, you know, Welsh people, but I want to find Welsh people in this bit now. It's like one of my first missions. And I'm still really close friends with those Welsh people that I did thankfully find in Leeds. So it's almost like this idea of finding community wherever you are and finding that a slice of home. And home can mean so much.

I mean, even for this character, this idea that her other half felt like home a lot of the time where she didn't feel a permanence towards a specific place. We can feel that too. I love this topic by the way I agree it's not always a place is it it's often it's a person

I remember meeting my husband and thinking oh my gosh I've found my home but also it's finding your tribes in different places they move around they migrate you migrate and there's something about realizing as well that this beautiful natural world that we live in

is our home as a whole and yes we feel so small but we feel so embedded and rooted in it there's comfort in that I think remembering the beauty around us feels like home. Yeah. And actually, if we're going to bring it back to the Mercury Music Prize, for me, Homer's Newcastle, where it was held this year. And the winner, Sam Fender, is from there.

Was it local? I can't believe we're at the fifth and final book already. Here we are. And it is, Arrangements in Blue by Amy Key, another beautiful cover. I'm just looking at it on the table in front of us. It's gorgeous, isn't it? It's quite artsy. But it's cool, isn't it?

I really like it a lot. I'm actually not sure where the painting's from. Oh, there we go. Blue Window from Nora Reza from 2007. But it's stunning, isn't it? It's gorgeous. And the question at its heart is, is it possible that life without romantic love isn't so bad?

Poets Amy Key's memoir Chronicles, her life is a single woman in her 40s. Inspired by Joni Mitchell's seminal album, Blue, the book uses the album's themes to explore different kinds of love and relationships outside of traditional romance. With profound intimacy, key delves into the challenges and joys of building a fulfilling life for herself rather than living in a holding pattern for a partner. Now, you've said that this is a book that you always recommend. What is it about this memoir that makes you want to like press it into the hands of others?

Oh, it's the depiction of womanhood. It's all the messy things. It's all the pretty things. It's how we feel about ourselves all the way through from being teenagers and craving this idea of, oh, I really want a special someone. I want my first kiss.

Like the kind of magic behind that and what romantic love looks like from what we've seen on telly and listened in music specifically for this book. All the way through to how life is really like as a woman. It's incredible.

I want to recommend this to literally anyone because she's so, funny. I think that there's one of the funniest books I've read than ages. It's also the only non-fiction are brought in today. And being big music heads, I feel like music affects our lives a lot.

And for one person to take such an iconic album like Johnny Mitchell's Blue and use that as a measuring stick for how intense love can feel and how worthwhile love can be just through

music is such an astonishing way of navigating your life do you mind if I quote you a bit please do I love when someone gets the book at and does a little reading I've got loads of little kind of notice but there's one of them but there's on page four it's right at the beginning

so no spoilers it's fine she writes in early crushes and relationships I test my feelings against the blues sentiments as though album provided an ultimate scale of intensity that would reveal whether the love had substance. Was this a love so strong I couldn't numb it out of myself with wine? Did it have the endurance of the northern star? Could it keep away my blues? Would it anchor me where I stood or let me sail

away? Looking back now, I think I tricked myself into believing almost all of my romantic attachments measured up against the blues scale. I accepted love would bring me pain so much so that joyful love became not an expectation but an occasional gift. Love meant being prepared to bleed. I was ready to commit to it. What? Starting a book like that.

Are you joking? Are you taking Mick? And you're in. My God. It's just amazing. It's funny, isn't it? Because you can listen to the same song having had different things happen to you,

having gone through a breakup, being in the throes of passion, and it will sound completely different. And she's really evoking that throughout this book. Yeah, every chapter is based on a different track within the album and how she takes different lyrics for herself. And she even says at different points in her life, she reads it differently where she's like,

oh, I actually misunderstood this lyric when I first heard. Oh, I get it now? Yeah, pretty dropped. Yeah. Do you remember when you first discovered this book? What was going on for you? when you read it, because that will be quite instrumental in how you would have perceived it.

This is the newest book I've read. I literally finished it this weekend. Right. But I saw that self-esteem, Rebecca Lucy Taylor, recommended this. Okay, if she recommends anything, I'm reading it. I know, well, that was the thing. I was like, right, what's she reading?

And I think she just made a social media video saying, oh, I'd love to be key. This is a great book. And if you're a music lover, read it. And I was like, okay, well, don't have to ask me twice. Of course I will. And it's incredible, isn't it? It's so great.

And so much of it speaks of womanhood and identity and how much emphasis when they're putting on romantic love to carve out meaning in our own lives and even navigating the rubbish things in life that actually are quite difficult to do if you're single, like the rental market, you know, or living independently. If you want children, it's really, really challenging. And it's a really generous book

in the way that she talks about her own life. She definitely reveals things about her inner turmoils that, I mean, I would never want to speak out loud. So the fact that she's put it down on paper and it just exists forever, it's really brave of her. And now you have the words to articulate that if you ever need to. Yeah. You can put them in your notes. Yes. Yeah.

And turn to them when, you know, you need to vocalize feelings that are just so profound. It does, it resists this idea that romantic love is the only type of love that can give us value or the only kind worth. writing about, like we said before, so many albums are about love, so many books are about love, all the films are about love. Did you feel like you really connected with that idea when you were reading it? 100%. And I felt like she was talking to me. I think the way it's written is so masterful. I know she's a poet by day, so it doesn't surprise me at all that she's able to write a book so beautifully. And sometimes, honestly, I felt like I was reading about myself. And that's amazing. That's the first time it's ever happened to me in a book. And maybe I needed to read more nonfiction because I think it really resonated me with me in that way.

And it talks a lot about female friendships and how pertinent and how much we should prioritise them in our lives too and how you see your friends navigating through their love lives and how that relationship changes. It's just an amazing book. I could talk about this book all day. It's one of those books that you can flick to any page, read a paragraph and be like, yep.

I'll take that. I love when a book gives you great advice for your friends. So I'm like, I'll put that in my arsenal. I've got that if I ever need to just give a bit of support to one of my mates. And actually often the mate is you. You need to give it to yourself. But it's so easier to give advice to others than to yourself. And you mentioned there, Amy Key, beautiful poet,

and there is this sense of rhythm and musicality, melody running through her words. Did you hear the music? I mean, obviously it's based on an album. Did you hear the songs? So this sounds naff. I deliberately listened to the songs while reading the book. Perfect. So, by any time there was a chapter,

but like, right, she's talking about blue here. Let me whack that on. And then I would have that on loop while I was reading the chapter. That's not enough at all. I think that's probably very much her intention. I hope so. I think so. It felt right to do.

She doesn't tell you to do that, but I was like, it feels like I'm giving respect to the book. But she would have been listening while she was writing as well. I would have thought so, yeah. So, you know, you're putting yourself in that place. Sure. I'll take that. Well, for anyone who hasn't read it, I think that's a great exercise.

Give it a go. Joni Mitchell's Blue while reading arrangements in Blue. And it is one of the most amazing albums of all time. There we go. One of the best songwriters of all time. So you can't go far wrong. You're going to have a great experience in this book. A beautiful experience.

You've had five of them, really, in the five books you brought today. So I am going to have to ask you, Sean, to pick a favourite. Oh, no, Vic. I knew it was coming as well. It has to be done. Oh my God. I think in terms of timelessness and longevity and, oh God, this is horrible actually. Timeless and longevity, it has to be I, who have never known men.

I think it has to be. I think that was the biggest reaction. When I read out the title of it, you were like, ah. I feel it's messy into the chair. Oh, my God. I love this bog. Yeah, I think it has to be that just because. I've never read anything like it

and I will never not want to stop reading it and I just wish I could give it a fresh pair of eyes every single year I've dedicated now I've said it on record I need to read it every year so it's happening you're doing it and also

you've just said on the podcast that you'd like to give it a fresh pair of eyes I mean we have all these listeners who may or may not have read it so there's a lot of eyes yes who can really enjoy it thank you so much

it's been so lovely to have you on the podcast. Oh my God, thanks for having me. Just chatting about books for the first time. We should do this more often. Can we please? Yes. Come round to mine for a cupper. I will. Thank you so much, Sean. Thanks, Vic. I'm Vic Hope, and you've been listening to the Women's Prize for Fiction Boots Shelby podcast, brought to you by Bayleys and produced by Birdline Media. Thank you for joining me for this episode. You'll find all the books discussed in our show notes. If you've enjoyed it, please leave us a rating or review to help other readers discover even more brilliant.

brilliant books by women. See you next time.