Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast - S9 Ep7: Bookshelfie: Romy Gill

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

Chef, broadcaster, and food and travel writer, Romy Gill, tells Vick about her experience as a first generation immigrant to the UK, the food that punctuated the 24 hour train journeys of her childhood, and how Nigella Lawson’s cookbooks inspired her own writing.Born in West Bengal, India, Romy first learned to cook from her mother – famous for her aloo parathas and using every unloved scrap of plants and vegetables long before zero-waste became a trend. Romy moved to the UK in 1993, and began her cooking career hosting dinner parties and running cookery classes before opening her own restaurant, Romy’s Kitchen, in Gloucestershire. Since then, she has released her debut cookbook Zaika - Vegan Recipes from India which was followed by On the Himalayan Trail: Recipes and Stories from Kashmir to Ladakh. This second book wove personal essays, travel photography and explored the history of the region through its food and culinary traditions. Her most recent cookbook Romy Gill’s India - Recipes from Home features family recipes that celebrate her Bengali and Punjabi roots. In addition to her writing, Romy is a much-loved presence on radio and TV, regularly appearing on BBC Radio 4’s Food Programme, Ready Steady Cook and Celebrity Masterchef. Romy’s  book choices are:**The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy**The Namesake by Jhumpa Lahiri**The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden**How to Eat by Nigella Lawson**Managing Expectations by Minnie DriverYou can buy all books mentioned from our dedicated shelf on Bookshop.org – every purchase supports the work of the Women's Prize Trust and independent bookshops. Every week on Bookshelfie, Vick Hope is joined by inspirational women to discuss the work of incredible female authors. The Women’s Prize for Fiction, the greatest celebration of female creativity in the world, is run by the Women’s Prize Trust, the charity building a better future by championing women’s writing. Don’t want to miss the rest of season nine? Follow or subscribe now!This podcast is sponsored by Baileys and produced by Bird Lime Media.

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lightweight, environmentally friendly, and quiet. If Jerry could, he would. But you can definitely get a great deal on steel battery-powered lawn equipment at Coy-Br-Br-B-R-O-O-I-B-B-R-S. Coming up on Brookshelfy. You know, food saved me. I would say food really saved me when I started to cook, understand flavors, and met so many different people.

I used to sit on my sofa and watch Ready, Study, Cook, and think, wouldn't it be great to just go into the audience and pick that red tomato, a green pepper? Years later, I manifested that, I tell you, I have never read a book faster. I read the Safe Keep. Yes, very fast. But this book, you cannot put it down.

I was so happy one minute. I was laughing and then I was crying because the emotions in that book and you can just know that it's written, so well written and you know it's her voice. Hello, I'm Vic Hope and this is Bookshelfy, the podcast from the Women's Prize that asks women with lives as inspiring as any fiction

to share the five books by women that have shaped them. Now, before we begin, remember to subscribe or follow so you never miss an episode with thanks to our sponsor, Bailey's. Today, I'm joined by Romy Gill. Romy is a renowned chef, food and travel writer and broadcaster. Born in West Bengal, India, she learned to cook from her mother, famous for her aluparadas and using every unloved scrap of plants and vegetables long before zero waste became a trend.

Romi moved to the UK in 1993 and began her cooking career hosting dinner parties and running cookery classes before opening her own restaurant, Romy's kitchen in Gloucestershire. Since then, she's released her debut cookbook, Zika, Vegan Recipes from India, which was followed by On the Himalayan Trail recipes and stories from Kashmir to Lodak. The second book wove personal essays, travel photography and explored the history of the region through its food and culinary traditions. Her most recent cookbook, Romi Gills India, Recipes from Home, features family recipes that celebrate her Bengali and Punjabi roots. In addition to her writing, Romi's a much-loved presence on radio and TV, regularly appearing on BBC Radio 4's food program, ready-sedy cook and celebrity master chef.

Romi, welcome. We were just chatting about how, as well as broadcaster, travel writer, TV presenter, you first and foremost call yourself a chef. I do. I think that is so important because that from chefing, from I was a chef, I got different opportunities to write, to, you know, to be on present on TV or be a presenter, you know, on radio. I think I learned from my chefing days because that's something deeply rooted in me. And one thing followed from another. I think I would always say I'm a chef first than anything. else, you know. And travel is such a big part of what you do. I mean, the Himalayan Trail. It's arduous, but it's amazing. And, you know, form the basis of your book. Do you find that travel time to be a good time to read, or do you see it more as research only? So I always love going to different people's houses. You know, travel makes you knowledgeable, first of the thing, you know, for always, when I was growing up as well. My parents always made sure we travel. Even if we didn't have much money,

we'll go somewhere to travel, to learn. As we've talked earlier, that India is such a big country. We speak so many different languages. We look different. The techniques, the methods of cooking is so different from one another. I think when I'm traveling, I love to research. I love to know how the person have cooked. And also, when you ask people how that food was cooked and What did you do different? They will open your doors, you know. They'll open the doors. And that's how, for me, that's knowledge.

I want to learn something in not just India, anywhere I go in the world. I think I've always, every time I go to India, I feel like a tourist in India. Because I think, wow, why didn't I know this before? And then, you know, as a chef, for me, I love to be creative. And it's so important to learn. And while I'm on, you know, visiting, I always pick up a book from that region. Because I think reading is so important about that state, about any country, rather than taking a book, you know, I'd love to buy a book from there and learn something from there. So you wait until you're on the ground and then you get a book lovely.

Yes. It's a good way of doing it because so often, you know, we pack our holiday read, don't we? And then we go off on our journey and you know beforehand what you're going to be getting. getting into. But wow, the surprise of what am I going to find when I get there? And they're brilliant writers which you would never know until you go in that part of world, wherever you are, and you pick up that. You know, English is just a language that you can get books from anywhere in the world. I think it's so important to do that because I learned that from so many different people because there are some amazing writers which we never hear about.

So I think going to that part, picking up a book, getting the knowledge and understanding, not just a writer, the people, the food, the language, I think it's really important. You said that your parents instilled that love of travel, the importance of travel. And I completely relate. My parents always said that travel was the best education. We didn't have Christmas. We didn't do presents. We didn't have Santa Claus. We would go somewhere, usually to Africa, back to Nigeria.

My family were, but around the world. and that's where we really learn about life. And so from a young age, when you were picking up a book back then, what did you gravitate towards? Was this something that you love to do right from the beginning? So I grew up on a steel plant. So my dad worked in West Bengal, in Bernpur on a steel plant. And like my dad, a lot of people from India in different states came to work there.

But my parents are from Punjab, which is not India. So that 24-hour long train journey, more than 24-hour long, my mom would make picnic along with my dad. They would pack a picnic. And also each stops, you know, the train would stop like after three hours or four hours. The cuisine from that you would get on the stations was that we always look forward to because you wouldn't get that. Something very different.

But also comic books. You know, comic books we would pack on holidays. or books like I said before, you know, like Nancy Drew or Secret 7, Famous Five, those are the books when I was a child I used to start reading. And Chachachawdhury was like a comic book or Tintin. You know, those we would pack with us on the train, long train journey. And my parents always made sure we read because they were, they didn't speak English. We went to an English medium school.

They made sure that we had that knowledge, that reading, that was really important. for them. So I think that was for us. We didn't have, you know, you have to understand there was no social media then or any phone calls. What a time. You know, we would pack our ludo. I don't if you know, Ludo. There's a caram board we would have or Monopoly, things like that. I think that was so important for my parents to kind of engage on the train and you would meet people on the train and you would share food on the train. And some of my, you know, you know, some of the friends we've made still, we met on the trains that we're still friends. So I think that was a really important part of my growing up years, you know.

Well, from those comic books that you loved on those journeys as a child through, the books that you've loved throughout your life, let's get stuck into your bookshelfy picks, the first of which is the God of Small Things by Arundati Roy. This is the story of Raal and Esther, twins growing up among the Balanavats and peppercorns of their blind grandmother's factory. and amid scenes of political turbulence in Kerala, armed only with the innocence of youth, they fashion a childhood in the wreck that is their family,

their lonely, lovely mother, their beloved Uncle Chaco, a pickle baron, radical Marxist and bottom pincher, and their sworn enemy, baby Kuchuma, an ex-nun, an incumbent great-ant. Arundati Roy's prize-winning debut was publishing sensation, and catapulted is its author into literary stardom. Her most recent book, her memoir, Mother Mary, comes to me, is shortlisted for this year's Women's Prize for Nonfiction.

Now, this made such waves on publication in 1997. What does this book mean to you and why have you chosen it today? The year I got married. Okay. And also, I just think she's such a brilliant writer and she put the Indian literature on the map. You know, there has been amazing writers that we don't know. about, but she's a brilliant writer. So the book for me, I think, like you said, it's about the twins, it's about the aunt, it's about the uncle, it's about their mom, and it's about the grandma,

granddad, and then, you know, there's a tragedy in the family. So book goes back, you know, forth and it's the stories that I think a lot of people will relate to it because it's something that you wouldn't necessarily understand the deep waters of different states of India. and this is Kerala, and how and what happened in those times. And it's just beautifully, I think it's also about the car system which we have. It's also about the male dominance in the family. And, you know, all that kind of, it's so deeply rooted in Indian things. And I just think, so how brilliantly she goes past and in the present.

And it's something that I think everybody should read it, because it's a beautiful literature that make the year I go. got married and that was a book gifted by my husband. And I wanted to read more about and know more about her. And it was a brilliant read. And I was like so emotional about it because I have a really good friend, Simi, from Kerala, like, you know, she was born and brought up in Bengal like me. And I just wanted to know how, you know, she goes so deep into everything, every detail.

You know, sometimes when you're reading a book, the details are so different. everything, you know, the curtains, the dirty curtains, or if there is a char which is a pickle, how they would make the pickle, or, you know, the rain, how the monsoon has come, everything is so beautifully detailed. Even the landing of the plane, when the, when Sophie comes, you know, the Angchako's daughter from England, Margaret's daughter. And I think all that details how they beautifully, you know, and a tragedy that leads to, um, You know, the innocence of those twins, you know, they are separated after that. And it's, I think, so beautifully captured that I really wanted to share that with the wider audience to understand.

You know, even if you're not from that part of the world, I think everybody should read this book. The lyricism is so playful. Like you say, it's so beautiful, this exquisite writing amidst quite turbulent political background. political backdrop. That light and dark coming together. She writes, it's gorgeous. It's like poetic, isn't it? And it just flows so well.

Yeah, it reminds you of the beauty in every day that you can carry with you no matter how ugly things can get. And this depiction of childhood in India, did it resonate with you? Did you recognize it? Car system? Yes, the men, you know, in different families,

not mine, my dad is a wonderful person. but I've seen how male dominating in different and the religion, in all that kind of stuff, because it has all those things in there, how religion plays, how caste system, you know, the character of Alwitha, who's from the Dalit, from the Shadul caste, you know, how Amu falls in love with him and, you know, how beautifully they have, you know, connection together and that leads to a tragedy. So I think that the emotion I have seen in many people, you know, the caste system that you can't get married, you know, if we belong to certain, you know, come from a different caste. So I think that was what how it's beautifully depicted like we talked about, but also the emotions in them, in the memories in them, the way she writes, there's so many emotions, there's so many memories, but also sometimes we forget the, we always remember the big thing. We never remember the small things. So she details the small things. You know, that's very important.

The God of small things. Yes. And it's all, I mean, it's not quite magical realism in the way it's written, but it is magical. It is. It is. It's magical. And also talking gives me goosebumps because it's a reality. It is reality.

And the way she's written is magical, you know? It's, yeah, an absolutely exquisite book. And you've described your most. mother as an instructor in your life who taught you everything you know about and her influence are deeply rooted in your books. Can you tell us a little bit more about that because that relationship is at the heart of this book? So when I was growing up, I never wanted to be a chef. I loved eating. I loved playing cricket. And I loved reading novels like seek. I wanted to be a spy. Of course he did. A cricketing spy.

I don't know. It's something I really enjoyed doing that. You know, the badminton we used to play hockey, things like that. My mom had cancer when I was doing my A-levels. It was a year in the A-levels. And the doctor said she has either two years or two months. And that is the point, kind of changed my whole theme of understanding food. Because when she was having her radiotherapy,

she would put a lot of spices or salt because her taste buds were very different, you know. But she lived more than 40 years. She was a very strong lady. I think she was very determined. She made sure that her kids went to good school and English medium school. And she never forced us to do something. You know, she was a firm believer that if you like something, if you push your child to do something, they're not going to do it. you know, she would, I wouldn't say a manipulator, but she knew how, as a mom, you know, like a mom.

Great reverse psychology. She would do that to us and then we'd think. I think that was a point when she was diagnosed with cancer and the radiotherapy really changed my understanding that I wanted to be a chef and I wanted to, you know, help my mom. And that is, I think she was so strong. And that is what I thought that how Amu was also strong. Amu's mom was strong that she had that, you know, made that factory in the book, Pickle Factory they had. So I think that connection of strong women that no matter what, my mom said,

we didn't go to English medium school, we didn't read English or we didn't go to a private school. I want to, we can eat less at home. You don't have to eat meat every day. But I want my kids to go to this school. I want my kids to be able to have good jobs and be bigger. I think that strong presence of a woman is really important, I think. Well, on the subject of that relationship with one's mother, Arundati's Roy's memoir, Mother Mary, comes to me, shortlisted for the 26 Women's Prize for Nonfiction.

Have you read it? I have it. I haven't read it because I brought from India. I just recently went to India and I've got the book. I'm really looking forward to reading it because my friends, they've read it and they've said you must read it. Watch this space. But in the meantime, we'll talk about your second book-shelphi book, which is The Namesake by Jumper Lahiri. This critically acclaimed debut novel by Pulitzer Prize-winning British-American author Jumper Lahiri was first published in 2003.

It follows the story of baby boy Ganguli, born to a Bengali family in suburban America, who is hastily nicknamed Gogol by his father when they're forced to forego the usual naming traditions of their culture in order to leave hospital. The nickname sticks. And as Gogol grows up, he soon finds himself itching to cast off his awkward name, just as he longs to leave behind the inherited values of his South Asian parents. And so he sets off on his own path through life in a story spanning three decades and crossing continents. Another award-winning debut. And you describe it as essential reading for understanding the immigrant experience. Tell me a bit about that.

I love this book. It was such a good read. It was an easy read, you know. It's not like the book that we talked about earlier. This was so, you know, I could, as an immigrant, you know, like my dad migrated from a different part of India to go to work there. And like him, I came to this country, but just a suitcase. That was it. A suitcase full of memories.

And growing in a different culture and then making new friends here. and then understanding different culture of UK, no one would come and knock the door and say, I'm such a such person, I would have to make that effort. I think when you kind of go to a different country, as an immigrant, as an Indian, I think it's so relatable because my daughters are born here, their understanding of our culture

and the culture that they are born in here is completely, you know, They have a completely different experience than you have of this place of this setting. Yes. So I think that is, and also like when Ashima, the mom, you know, Ashoka's wife, when she travels to America for the first time, she doesn't know how to do the laundry. You know, in India, we don't have washing machines at that point. You know, we had somebody home help who would do those things. Or mom would do it.

So washing machine, she goes to, you know, go eat everything. She had to do it. I think similarly when I came here, I had to make friends. I had to learn different kind of food cuisines which I've never grown up eating, even different vegetables and fruits which have never seen. So many varieties of yogurt you have not seen in super much. I think I relate so much with that book because, you know, growing up in a different culture, coming to a different country, you know, you setting up your own business.

business or your working or anything. I think it's so much that I understand and for my daughters, their thinking is completely different, no matter we have that culture born, but they have different kind of upbringing. They lived in a very sheltered environment, you know, where they went to different schools. So I think immigrant, I always say to everybody, even if you're not immigrant, everybody should read this book. They understand where you come from. You basically started from scratch by the sounds of things. And you speak about how your daughters have a different experience of the culture of the place, of what's ahead of them. How important was it for you to let them know, let them understand where you come from and how that's a part of them? So,

My husband and I, we've always made sure we never forced anything on them like my parents never did. Because I think it's really important for them to learn as well. And we've always made sure we take them to India, different states of India, not just one place. Because you have to understand when you're born here, when you live in a community where there are, so if there is a Punjabi community, if there's a Gujarati or Bengali, they'd stick to that community. So where we lived, it's a very white town, white village, you can say. They went to a very white school. So their understanding of our culture and with the friends they are and speaking the language was completely, you know, very different. So for us, it was very important to take them to India, make them understand that where dad and mom comes from, we are very deeply rooted in our culture.

But at the same time, I want them to understand and not force something on my daughters because that was very important. and they love it. They love the culture, but at the same time, they have their own opinions. They're very much, they understand, you know,

where mom and dad comes from, but also their understanding of living in the UK or traveling anywhere is also, I think that gives them understanding of two different cultures

really well. So I think that, for me, choosing the book, if you bring them to, and I made my daughter read this book as well, because I just think where, you know, if we are having a party and we are speaking different languages,

I don't want them to feel left out. So, you know, at the same time, I don't want to force them to kind of be in that culture. That's where Gogol was. He was in two different traditions, you know, one tradition, American culture, one to their mom and dad's tradition. I think that's where he kind of, you know, lost the plot a little bit. But at the same time when he lost his dad and he wanted to change his name, whereas his sister was quietly, you know, took everything on her stride and understood where she came from.

But eventually he did, kept his name, you know, he went back to it. But I think with my daughters, I think they have a very different understanding of where they come from than, you know, the train journeys, for example. They will never have that experience, you know. or a picnic that we would do somewhere on a train. But nowadays, everybody travels in a very different way. But, you know, I just also wanted to say the, you know, the upbringing of a child is all on their parents.

You know, how you're going to, and the community that you live in. So where I live, the community is very much the community I brought, got, you know, was born and brought up in. So their understanding of Indian culture is really good because the community is the core of our tradition and that's where I live is similar. And it's almost like unlike Gogol rather than feeling split between the two, you're enriched by both.

Yes. And there's so many more facets and elements to calm in their lives that will continue to enrich them, including, of course, food. So when you talk about that suitcase of memories that you brought when you started your life here in the UK, I assume one of those memories you could put it, or one of the things you were bringing with you from India was food, was flavours.

It is, yeah, it was, yeah. I mean, you bring with yourself your language. You're, you know, the food that you grew up eating. And also yourself, you know, you are the centre of universe. You know, you're bringing that. But also, it's something. quite scary at the same time, you know, that you're coming to a different country, miles and miles, thousands of miles away. And I was 22. My daughter's 23. So I just say to her how young I was without

any social media, anything. And food was something I missed deeply because the street food that I grew up in India, you could just go and eat any time, you know, the street food that I grew up. up or the different kind of food that I grew up. I didn't get that in this country. So I had to kind of learn everything from scratch. I would ring my mom. You know, at that time, calling India was so expensive. I would save that money, call her and say, how did you do this? And then she would write. This is, you know, I wanted to share this story because she would go to my friend's house, Simi, who I was talked about from Kerala. And my mom would speak in Hindi and she would then translate that in English and they would send the letters.

and said this is how the recipe was made. So those memories, those beautiful letters that we don't write to each other anymore, I have them. You know, those are something that are so, you know, a part of my mom's no more. So that's something really precious to me. And food was, you know, food saved me. I would say food really saved me when I started to cook, understand flavors. I met so many different people.

And watching, you know, at that time when I came to UK, there were four channels, BBC One, BBC 2 ITV and Channel 4, that's it. No ITV, no 5 channel either. There were two programs that I religiously watched was two fat ladies, Ready Study Cook and also Keith Floyd. But, you know, I used to sit on my sofa and watch Ready Study Cook. and think, for didn't it be great to just go into the audience and pick that red tomato, a green pepper.

And years later, I manifested that and I was a talent on it, you know. So I think food, manifestation is so important part of being a chef, I think. So food really was memories. It really was. And you can see how those recipes become stories. They're not just ingredients on a page, but they're imbued with so much more than that. This episode of Bookshelfy is sponsored by Bayleys. Bayleys is proudly supporting the 26 Women's Prize for Fiction,

helping showcase incredible writing by remarkable women, celebrating their accomplishments and getting more of their books into the hands of more people. Bayleys is the perfect adult treats, whether shaken in a cocktail, over ice cream, or paired with you can. favourite book. Check out baillies.com for our favourite bailey's recipes. Your third bookshelphie book is The Safe Keep by Yale van der Vowden. This unsettling, tightly plotted debut novel was the worthy winner of the 2025-the-th women's prize for fiction. It explores repressed desire and historical amnesia against the backdrop of the Netherlands after the Second World War. In it we meet Isabel,

who's built herself a solitary life of discipline and strict routine in her late mother's country home with not a fork or a word out of place. But all is upended when her brother Louis delivers his graceless new girlfriend Eva at Isabel's doorstep as a guest who ends up staying for the season. What happens between the two women leads to a revelation which threatens to unravel all she's ever known. The safe keep is at once a high-charged, claustrophobic drama played out between two deeply flawed characters and a bold, insightful exploration of the emotional aftermath of trauma and complicity. I read this so fast. It was in about a day or two. How did you come across this title? What kind of impacted it, haven't you? Do you know, I sometimes when you are in a bookshop,

you just picked this book up and I tell you, I read this book on a plane in two hours. Yeah. It's one of those. It's such a page turner. It is. You pick, I mean, I mean, like God of small things, it takes time. Yeah, and you need to sometimes sit with what you're reading. You can't power through it. This book, you start one page, you go on to the second page. You do not want to put it down. I think it's just, it's the flow of the book, how easy it is read.

But at the same time, you're thinking what's going to come next? The relationship between Isabel and a brothers, you know, Hendrick and then Louis. and the relationship, you know, the backdrop of her mom's, she thinks about her mom, the relationship with the uncle, and then when she meets Eva. I think all the relationships are very important characters in the book, but also it's also like going past and present. But it's a quick past and present. It's not that you have to deeply think about it. But sometimes I like reading this books because then, you know, I don't have much time if I want to read this book. But it's really, I was really shocked.

How well it is written? I shouldn't be shocked, you know. I just think it's just I picked it up and I said to my friend, you have to read this book because they have this, I would say, electrifying, you know, relationship within them. And I think that really was that I did not want to put this book down because it's an easy read and sometimes you need easy read, but also very well written.

It's at once extremely pacey. While also having this sort of slow buildup of tension. It's amazing how it's fast and slow at the same time. And it provides a lot of context that like I learned so much about post-World War II Netherlands, about the legacies of Nazi occupation, but through these very personal histories, the history of Isabel's family and the occupancy of the house. The house is its own character. what struck you about Eyal's telling of this time?

How much did you know about it before and how much did you feel you learned? I think sometimes you learn a lot of different things. I knew a little bit about, you know, I learned about the World War, what happened and things like that. But within the book, I think it's something that really, you know, when I picked this book, when I chose this book, you know, when I was reading this book, not about it chose. reading this books, I didn't think about, you know, I thought it's a thriller. You know,

the way it is written in the back. Yeah, first, that's what I thought too. Yeah, I think that's a sense, since it's a character, Eva comes, so the sister, you know, girlfriend will come and something. I thought it's a thriller. And then, you know, how it is, it's just quickly that goes from one story to another about her relationship with her mom and she's so protective about, about those plates, those cutlery, you know, her room. She doesn't want Eva to stay. in that room. I think that kind of, you know, if people want to read this book and do not have time, I think this is a perfect book. But also, I think everybody must read this book because it's something you want to go back to it. Have you been back? I have been back. Yeah. I like reading

books that are such strong characters. And deeply, deeply flawed. Like I was shouting at the book several times at pretty much every character. Yeah. But I wasn't annoyed by them. I could just see how they could make the mistakes they were making. You said you read it in two hours, so very, very quickly. Did it stay with you for a long time afterwards, though? It has because I think she, like you said, all the characters are flawed,

but also, you know, it was hard for her to explain to her brothers, her relationship, her, you know, everything about her. She was so, like, wanted to keep within, you know, herself and she did not want to talk about anything, you know, Control freak is the writer. She was such a control freak about everything that eventually she becomes really soft. And, you know, the way I think the story from her being a control freak becomes a soft person is really important, I think, for that book, you know, ending the book. Now we've touched on the stories behind the recipes that you have since written that came from the foods that you love.

and the memories that were encapsulated in those dishes. So it's only right that we talk now about a recipe book. Your fourth book, Shelby Book, is How to Eat by Nigella Lawson. When Nigella Lawson's first book, How to Eat, was published in 1998, two things were immediately clear. Number one, that this fresh and fiercely intelligent voice would revolutionize cookery writing. And number two, that this book was an instant classic of the genre. How to Eat is a versatile,

culinary Bible through which a generation discovered how to feel at home in the kitchen and found the confidence to experiment and adapt recipes to their own needs. It can be used for a last minute supper with friends, a luxurious weekend lunch, a store cupboard meal for one or to please a fussy toddler. Essentially it's home cooking for busy lives. You've described this book as a game changer for cookbook authors. What did the cookbook landscape look beforehand for you and then when this came, how did it change? So like I said, you know, I watched different TV cooking shows because that was something really big part of me. Books started changing and this, when this book came up in 1998.

I always thought books are recipes and then photographs and all that kind of stuff. But this book is for me, I don't know. And for many authors, especially for me, I think, it was a game changer, the way she shared stories, the food. It was all about sharing and the stories behind it and how it's written. You know, it's beautiful. And it's really, really important if you want to be a author, a food writer or something. I think that this book is a must. For me to get this book and read it and understand it, that was kind of.

that gave me a seed, you know, kind of that I want to write a book like this one day sharing the stories where I come from, my upbringing, the food that I grew up eating and the different food that we have. I think this book was the seed that was planted for me being an author that, you know, I've been able to write books. But also how easy and accessible they are. The voice, like you said, are beautiful voice. And it wasn't something that's hard. You can easily cook this recipe is very simple. And their pleasure, like she says, and they are for your pleasure. And I think Nigella is not only about the book, I want to say.

She is an amazing person to a lot of authors because she has this cookbook corner. where she's really uplifted lots and lots of food writers and a lot of authors. And she kind of puts that there. But also I think this book for me was important in my choice of now because she's going to be on Channel 4. She's going to be the present one of the judges. She's Johnny Baker. So I think she has been in the industry for such a long time. And she's such a bold, beautiful, elegant.

character. And I think she's the best person to be on that show because she is caring. She loves food, you know, which is important. And but also this book is the foundation, like I've talked about different things, is a foundation for me understanding how writing can be, you know, how recipe writing is because I've never written, you know, recipe writing or I think this book made me understand how you can write, how you can share the food, how you can gather together and that can give you pleasure. I think it's the way for me to explain. Yeah, it sounds like she has influenced you. This book in particular has influenced you as a food writer. You've got two of your beautiful recipe books right there next to you. What would you say

is the starting point? Or does it vary? Is it, you know, a diet? dish that you remember? Is it a story? Is it an idea? How do you go about beginning one of these books? I think I love travel like we've talked about before. I love travel anywhere in the world. I love travel and travel as a tourist understanding when you're going and if you go to a different restaurant, anywhere if you're staying in a farm stay or if you're staying in a home stay, you know, you're kind of eating the food of that part. For me, that was the, point, I am very old school. I like to write on my notebook. And then I will take pictures on things that for me, writing in my notebook is very important. I go back on it. I religiously

believe on that because I think it's the core of the foundation or understanding of writing is really important because once the food editor told me, I said, I can never write. I don't know how to write. And he said, Alan Jenkins used to be an editor of OFM. And he said, if you're walking, just a walk, taking, you know, going anywhere, you see a leaf, what color is the leaf? Is it dried? You know, where is it? Where exactly it's, so if you have those where, how, you know, things, then you come back and write in your diary. Or if you've had a bad day in the restaurant or you've had a good day or your relationship with your friends or someone, you write that.

That is a writer. You write that. I think he made me, along with Mila Holland, made me a writer that I am today and I have a lot of respect for them because I would have never thought I can write. And they would always say everybody is a writer. It's just the way you write, you know, how you explain, how you speak, how you see. Seeing is very important. I think that for me, recipe books, my recipe books are all about my memories about my travel and then comes the recipes. We've had some amazing chefs and food writers on this podcast.

We've had Anna Jones, Rookmane Aya, Nadi Hussein. They've all told me that they've amassed huge bookshelves full of cookery books. Is yours similar? My house, my room, one of these is triple the size of this is cookbooks. Wow. Bookshelves. I'm going to try and, if anyone just listening, put into context, this room is maybe three and a half meters long, triple that.

Yeah. Just cookbooks. Just cookbooks. Wow. And what makes great cookery writing for you? For me, I think it's the memory. It's something that is also accessible for people nowadays. When I do recipe writing, for me, it's really important that will people be able to make

that recipe at home and also changing, adapting, because I think sometimes you have to adapt with the ingredients that you might not be able to get. I said the great recipe writer is adapting a recipe for people and understanding people is not about you. It's always about someone else because you want people to cook at home. But also if you're writing an essay book, which is like a Himalint Trail is a lot of essays in them,

a lot of recipes, but you have to understand, differentiate between essays and recipe writing because you want people to read, you want people to go to that place as well. But at the same time, you want people to taste that, cook at home. You know, that is, I think, a great recipe writer is adapting the recipes for other people. And of all of those books that you have on your shelf, do you read them for research or do you read them just for pleasure?

I read them for research and pleasure. And also, they're beautiful to look at. Recipe books are the best books on the bookshelf in terms of the aesthetic. You know, some of the books that are there, you know, you just want them. They are like Bible for everybody, you know, for chefs. They're the big Bibles that we will always go back to those books. So I think cookbooks are something personal. They are good to look at, but also, you know, research,

but also you can make really delicious foods from them, you know. They are their stories. I mean, we've covered food now. We've had novels. We're going to move on to your fifth and final bookshelphabby book, which is a memoir. Yes. So we've covered all bases.

And this is Managing Expectations by Minnie Driver, named Best Memoir of the Year by Mary Claire and a must read by USA Today when it was published in 2022 when we also had Minnie on the podcast. Managing Expectations is a collection of delicately crafted, hilarious and heartfelt essays described as a tell most in which Mini Driver uses her formidable storytelling skills to examine and understand her less than ordinary life. suffused with warmth and humour, mini-share's poignant, candid and honest stories of her unconventional childhood, the shock of fame, motherhood, love, success, failure, the power of sisterly love and the loss of her beloved mother. In her own words, it's about how things not working out actually worked out in the end and how reaching for the dream is easily more interesting, expansive, sad and funny

than the dream itself coming true. Now, you admit that you probably actually wouldn't have picked this, up in the book shop. It's a celebrity memoir, maybe not the genre you generally reach for. So what made this one different? How did you come across it? So I was doing a radio full show and I was asked to read this book and I was like another celebrity memoir. But, you know, I just, I tell you, I have never read a book faster. I read the safe keep. Yes, very fast. But this book, you cannot put it down. Because so witty. She's so brilliant.

She's got the most sexy voice as well, you know. I love. I always was, before reading, I think she's a fine actress. She's brilliant. She is something you can relate to. She's very caring. You know, but this memoir, and I was crying at one point, and my daughters were like, what's wrong?

It was, I was so happy one minute. I was laughing, and then I was crying. because the emotions in that book and you can just know that it's written, so well written, and you know it's her voice because, and it's not a thick memoir that sometimes you have a really big celebrity memoir so I'm like, oh my God, it's going to take me ages.

But I just think that how a childhood, from her childhood, you know, when she is screaming that she's been kidnapped, you know, and then voicing in school and then fighting each corner and then when she had an argument with her dad in Barra Vodosa

but with her girlfriend, with his girlfriend and then she was sent back on a plane alone I think she was 11 of her teen and then she spent so much money with his credit card and all that is so witty

so funny so emotional but a lot of things you can relate to it the relationship between her mother and I find that relationship between a mother, I kind of go back to my mom that I used to argue about certain things with my mom. And I just think that the relationship at the end,

when her mom says, was that, you know, the relationship they had, was it enough? And that's really emotional. I just think that everybody should read this book because I think it's such a witty, funny, beautiful book. She's lived a wild life. and yet it's not focusing on the celebrity or being a Hollywood actress,

it's her childhood, those relationships, like you say. She details her mother's struggle actually for independence, custody of her children when she divorced Minnie's father. You just said about your relationship with your mother, but then likewise, was there any resonance of your relationship with your daughters? Yeah, I mean, my daughters are very opinionated in a way because I just think that if I'm wrong, they will say,

Mommy, you're wrong. Your face. People can read your face very quickly. You have to hide certain things. I think the relationship I have, I think when you're reading books and when you're reading really books written by women, I think,

you can understand how we're, and I'm not perfect. I think I have so much, you know, I learn so much from my daughters. I always, if I'm doing something on television or if I'm doing anything, I always kind of sit with them. And I don't want to have the same relationship that I had with my mom.

I want to be different. I want to be there for my children. She was there. My mom was always there. But I think the generation is completely different. You have to understand your kids very differently. So I think my daughters are my rock. They are really amazing.

But I think with Minnie, I think she also struggled with a lot of things that, you know, the understanding that how her parents were separate and then her mom having a relationship with someone else, I think, you know, there were certain things that she couldn't get, you know, that's why the anger came. She was very angry about certain things. But that you can understand reading why, you know, that's kind of came through really well. But for me, I think my daughters are my rock, you know. Do you think that having now dipped into a memoir, it's sort of changed. how you view memoirs as a genre. I mean, could you even say that your most recent cookbook recipes from home is a memoir of sorts?

It is. I think it is. I think that I would honestly say that Minnie have read many memoirs and I have not really gone in detail. But Minnie's memoir really helped me also to write Romigil's India. because my relationship with my dad, I have an amazing relationship with my dad and, you know, relationship with my friends or my husband or my daughters, I think that kind of gave me a seat, I wouldn't say a foundation from Minis' book to write my book, you know, but, you know, memoirs can be beautiful, can be really heartwarming and then you can know the person really well.

What I loved about this book, this memoir, was she does not go deep into her relationship with the actor. Because I just think that was beautiful because she could have. She could have done yet. She could have done. But she only wrote about the Oscars where she goes in the Oscars with her family and then just a little bit of it. I think she didn't go deep. That really kind of admired, I admire her more. I think she didn't get, you know, she could have wanted to get sympathy from people.

but I think she didn't do that. And her relationship, what she did in the memoir was her relationship with her family and then having a child, you know, her beautiful relationship with her son. So I think that was kind of, if people have this book, they will understand that how kind of I, you know, wanted to have those relationships with food with people, with my, you know, my upbringing, really. Well, in the memoir of your own life, Romy, what would the next chapter look like? Is there anything you've got coming up that you're excited about? I am very excited about writing my next book, which is completely different.

And I think people will like it because books, people love cookbooks, you know. But in order to have different cookbooks, you have to be really creative in your own way. Yeah. How do we keep bringing something fresh? Absolutely. But, you know, you can write 23 books on India. It's true. But no, I'm writing something really beautiful book. It travels from all different countries that I've traveled.

I'm looking forward to that. And yeah, and something really exciting is coming up as well. Rami did tell me before we started recording and I can't say it's embargoed. But I'm really excited for you as a writer, as a chef. I also can't thank you enough for bringing food to us today. We have some delicious cookies that I've been getting stuck into. It's been really amazing to see how these different novels, cookbooks, memoirs have shaped your own writing and your own life. So looking back through the five that you picked today, is there one that you could say was a favourite book and why?

I think for me it's got to be Nigella's book because it shaped my career. It's my writing. and also, you know, gave me the seed, like I said, I, you know, planted a seed for me to write and how to write. And that made me a writer. You know, all people have dreams. And dreams is when we dream something that becomes reality. If you don't dream, it doesn't become reality. And manifesting something is really important for me.

I've always manifested things and it just happened. So I think I will choose how to eat by Nigel Lawson. I think as a chef, as a writer, it's a book that everybody must have in the kitchen shelf. Beyond formative. Yes. It really did plant and sew those seeds. Well, thank you so much for chatting to me about books, about life and for bringing me cookies. Thank you, Roe Mie Gill.

Thank you for having me. I'm Vic Hope and that was Bookshelfy from the Women's Prize, supported by Bayleys and produced by Birdline Media. Thanks for joining me for this ever. you'll find all the books that we discussed in our show notes. There's also a link to our bookshop.org shelf where every purchase supports independent bookshops and the work of the Women's Prize Trust, a charity helping build a better future by championing women's writing. Now remember to hit the follow or subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you like this one, then leave us a rating or review to help other readers discover even more brilliant

books by women. I'll see you next time. Thank you.